Betty and Dan Broderick - Part 3 of 3

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing. Your wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to Love Mary Kill, Hi Rich, Hi Tina. Welcome to part three of Betty and Dan Broderick. I am excited about this. I was just thinking, like, I don't know how this case turns out. I really don't, even though I know it's a very well known case. So I am really excited to hear the rest of it.

0:41 We could have done ten parts on this case, so there's a lot to cover today, and I kind of tried to, you know, put it in a nice little bow and wrap it up. But you might be going a little long, you think. I think it might be a little long. There's a lot to say. All right, But how are you today? I am doing okay, dragging a little bit. Did our cat did you? Did you wake up at six am when she climbed up and jumped down onto the bed? Uh? No, I've tried really hard to ignore them at night and let them do as they'll do. And oh nice for you. No, I didn't go to bed till like two, she climbed. Up on our bed as she sometimes does, and jumped down and land.

1:23 Down canopy bed. So she we have a chair. She goes from the floor to the chair, and then she jumps up on top of the canopy. It's a wood canopy, so you know her CLAWSTI get into it. So yeah, and then she can jump down upon. And if I don't know she's up there, and suddenly she jumps down and lands on my feet, it can. Freak you out, very scary. But this time at least I kind of heard. I knew she was there, so I wasn't completely shocked, but I couldn't get back to sleep after that. Did you try the eye trick? Oh? I always forget about the eye trick. We talked about the eye trick probably a month or two ago, and I really do think it works. So I'm just gonna mention it again because I wake up. You wake up, everyone wakes up in the middle of the night. Just keep your eyes closed and you just first you go. I don't think it matters what pattern you do. You're just back and forth, back and moving.

2:10 Your eyes around with you with your eyelids. Yeah, you go back and forth, up and down. You can, you know, make them go in a circle counterclockwise and clockwise, and then sometimes I do like a figure eight type thing, and you you don't do it until you fall asleep, because inevitably you say, oh, this isn't working, and then you go on to thinking about what do I have to do tomorrow? And then and then I fall asleep. So I really do think it works. The problem with the eye trick is that you have to remember the eye trick when you wake up at four am. And I speak a. Little bit of a habit for me, So I'm gonna remind you next time you can't sleep, wake me up, okay, and just be like, hey, what's that? Bang it? I'll remind you, all right. Take So today I'm a little emotional and even just saying I'm a little emotional because our son is leaving tomorrow. Well, actually I think we like thirty six hours with him. Yeah, just feeling well, and what we don't say We've said it before, but we haven't said in a while. It's not like he goes to Michigan State, which is an hour away, or U of M, which is twenty minutes away. He goes to Northern Michigan University is really yeah, he looked. He said when he was picking his college, I want to have in state tuition, but I want to be as geographically far from my family as I can be. He succeeded. Actually, Michigan Tech is probably a little farther slightly, but still it's Marquette Michigan. It's a lovely place to.

3:37 Be, but you can't just pop up there for a weekend. And if he needs something, he's not going to tell us. And that's the thing that's kind of hard. I just love him so much and we're so proud of him. He's had some challenges, as every young person today has. It's a really hard time to be any age, but to be a young person, you know. But anyway, we wish him well. If you are going back to school as a teacher, or you're kids are going back to school to college or whatever, we just wish everyone a good year, a great year. Marquette Michigan. If you don't know, if you're not from Michigan is attached to Wisconsin. It is not attached to Michigan. The Upper Peninsula that close. To Wisconsin, but the Upper Peninsula is attached to Wisconsin.

4:19 So Michigan actually had to build a bridge called the Mecanow Bridge, which connects Lower Michigan to Upper Michigan. Right, And it always makes me laugh because it's like, Wisconsin, why didn't you fight for the Upper Peninsula? Do you know why the Upper Peninsula belongs to Michigan. Somehow related to a war for Toledo, right, which I don't understand the connection, but I know there's some Toledo connection. You're right. I wasn't sure if you knew this or not. But Michigan, before becoming a state, was fighting with Ohio over a strip of land along their border called the Toledo Strip. Both sides wanted it because of the Mammie River, which has been seen as economically valuable. The conflict never came became a real war, but it was heated enough that President Andrew Jackson intervened and said, hey, Michigan, why don't you just take this land up here? Oh so it's really hard to access.

5:10 Okay, so the federal government. Okay, I didn't understand how Like I didn't know if Ohio owned the Upper Peninsula, but it was sort of the federal government stepped in to try to make peace. And Wisconsin wasn't a state at that. Okay, that's kind of. I think it was. I think it's a win for Michigan. I mean, obviously, Toledo's a fine place. I'm not saying anything against Toledo, but the. Actually is the best part of Ohio that I've been to. I think Toledo is a great town. They have a great zoo there, art museums great, they have some good restaurants. But the Upper Peninsula is amazing. It really is. Well, I did bring you a snap? Did you make me past ees? No, that would be a good tie in. But you know, Tina's been a little little tense this week usually I was going to ask you about that. Do you think I've been a little aggressive this week?

5:56 Really? I know you've been stressed out a little bit, but no, You've been fine. I just feel like Betty brought like sometimes when I'm for writing cases like I feel like I became a little Betty like I was feeling a little unhinged at times. Yeah, I know what you mean, though that does happen. Okay, Well, I made you a chicken tender. We have some honey mustard, Rich's favorite sauce, mustard, and a Kiwi with the skin on. I've been obsessed with kiwis, like the skin. Have you tried it with the skin on? I think I tried it the other day and I spit it out. You got to eat it with the skin on. It's really good for you. All right, Okay, what did you think of today's staff?

6:41 It was good. I didn't realize I was hungry. So that's nice that the chicken tender was a little more substantial than some snacks. So yeah, the chicken tenders are actually for dinner. I was trying sometimes when we record, we record in the afternoon and then we're done and we're like, what's for dinner? So and our son is still home and I wanted him to have a nice dinner. So yeah, the chicken turn. I'm going to give a thumbs down on the kiwi. The peel or whatever it's called. Well, it definitely takes some time getting used to it, but it doubles the fiber. There's vitamin C and vitamin E in the peel. You should wash obviously, you should wash it before you eat it, but it can be eaten. I used to always peel them, but you can be used to eating. No more though you can go with the peel.

7:22 Yeah, I've been eating them for a couple of weeks and I'm, you know, kind of obsessed with them. Well, good for you. It's good for you too. There's not really a recipe for the chicken tenders. I marinated them in Greek yogurt. Oh, usually I use buttermilk, but it didn't have any, so I'm like, I'll just try this, and then you judge them in flour and then egg and then pincoa bread comes and then I put them in the air fire for three minutes at four hundred degrees, flip them and then another three minutes. Nice, they're very good. Well, you have to rate the naxt chicken tenders. I'll give a nine out of ten. Kiwi was great. The kiwi is really good. But if you're going to ask me to rate it with the peal, I'm going to get it five out of ten.

8:03 Okay, that's not too bad. Could be worse. Can you give us a summary? Betty and Dan Broderick married in nineteen sixty five and went on to raise four children while Dan built his law career. Betty devoted herself to motherhood, but grew resentful of Dan's long hours and emotional distance. By the time they settled in La Jolla, the family was wealthy and respected, but their marriage was crumbling. After a three year affair with his assistant Linda Kolkina, Dan filed for divorce following years of gaslighting that left Betty emotionally wrecked. Devastated, Betty lashed out in impulsive, irrational, and sometimes dangerous ways, leaving her children caught in the middle and often neglected by both parents. What followed was a bitter five year legal war that ended with a financial settlement Betty considered devastatingly unfair.

8:54 In Part one, we covered the early years of the Broderick's marriage. In Part two, we explored the divorce and its fallout, and today, in part three, we'll talk about the murders and the aftermath. I wanted to mention this next thought at the end of episode two, but I completely forgot. Wanted to talk about single mothers. A lot of divorced women, Betty included, call themselves single mothers, and technically that's true. They're no longer married and they're raising their kids without a partner. In the home. But there's an important distinction to make Betty had resources that many single mothers can only dream of, even in the midst of a bitter divorce. She had access to financial support, She lived in a comfortable home, and she was never in danger of not being able to feed her children or keep a group over their heads. For many women, being a single mother looks very different. It can mean working multiple jobs to cover rent, childcare, and groceries.

9:47 It can mean choosing between paying the electric bill and buying new shoes for the kids. It can mean no safety in that at all, no college degree to fall back on, no savings account, no family able to step in and help. All wild the dear with the same feelings of loss and despair that Betty did, but they have no choice but to soldier on. So while Betty certainly struggled emotionally and financially compared to the life she'd known as missus Dan Broderick, it's important to recognize that her version of single motherhood was not the same as the harsh reality so many women face. For most, single motherhood isn't about losing status or identity. It's about pure survival. Very well said I wanted to mention that because people throw around the term single motherhood a lot, and you know, it looks differently for other people, and I just empathize with single mothers a lot, and I know I use the word single mother in the last script, and I just wanted to make that clarification that I understand that it's two different.

10:45 Very situation, really different situation that she was in for sure. Last night I finished the book by Kim Broderick, Betty's Daughter, and the scene with Betty hitting Dan's house with the suburban do you remember that? So Kim put it in a different perspective for me, and I wanted to mention that because I think I kind of made it sound like she tapped the house. That's what she made it sound like when she. Didn't make it sound like that. But no, when Betty hit Dan's house, she didn't just tap the front door. There was a lot of damage. Kim said, it felt like that there was a major earthquake inside the house and it sounded like an airplane. The landscaping was demolished, windows broke, and the door was knocked right off its hinges.

11:26 Betty put the car in rivers and repeatedly rammed the house with her suburban, and she did pull a butcher's knife on Dan. Kim and Lee were both terrified inside the house, and they thought that they could have been killed. As Betty drove away in the police car, she stuck out her tongue at Kim and gave her the finger and true Betty fashion. So Kim went on to say that she felt every important detail in her young life was overshadowed by Betty and her antics. All of the children engaged in at risk behaviors when they were very young, and their parents didn't seem to notice. She said, like even when like Rhett and Danny were like nine and ten years old, they were they weren't like drinking and smoking all the time, but they you know sometimes yeah, would go do that, and they just had all surprising They had a lot of destructive behaviors, and their parents either turned a blind eye or just didn't knowice.

12:20 Yeah, they were just too busy dealing with their own stuff. Yeah. After the disappointing divorce settlement, Betty had no choice but to sell the once red infested house that she'd carefully remodeled over the years. It was now a showplace, and she was devastated to sell it, but it was the only way she could pay off the mountain of debt. She bought a modest, two bedroom condo for two hundred thousand dollars. That was really hard for her to let go of all the status of owning a billion dollar home for her. Yeah. While Dan lived in his mansion planning trips to the Amalfi Coast with his new wife, Betty sat alone in her crabby condo, all by herself with her pathetic excuse of a life. In the fall of nineteen eighty eight, Betty purchased a thirty eight Smith and Wesson five shot revolver, a small, snubnosed pistol she jokingly called her teeny weeny lady's gun. Betty carried it off and tucked in her pocket or capacious bag. She liked its weight, the way her fingers wrapped around the cool, solid barrel. It gave her comfort and a sense of controlling in a life otherwise unraveling. She mourned the life she once had. That Dan would toss it all away for Linda felt like the final insult, so painfully cliche.

13:32 She had expected something more from her genius husband, some twist worthy of his intellect. Instead, he chose the secretary. Betty told herself, Linda could have him, but the children were different. They were her life, her identity. She drew the line there. In her mind. Dan had never truly been a father anyway. She had raised them alone. Didn't she drop the kids off? Like? Didn't she take it upon herself to take them over there and just leave them? She did, Yeah, so she saw. Obviously she regretted it later, but she did. And she didn't want full custody of them either. But I think she wanted the kind of life where she could drop in on them whenever she wanted, and she really couldn't do that. Two envelopes arrived in the mail more legal paperwork. One carried a thinly veiled threat of another jail sentence if she failed to comply with court orders, and cited a report from her doctor that described her emotional disturbance and mental disease as worsening rather than improving.

14:33 The other letter flatly denied her most recent request to amend the custody arrangement of the boys. By this time, the girls were almost adults. I think Kim was eighteen and Lee was seventeen. The words on those pages ignited her fury, sending her into overdrive. She couldn't bear the thought of stepping into another courtroom, facing another judge, or hearing another lawyer dissect her life and tell her what was wrong with her. She was finished, done and dusted that weekend. The papers remained on her kitchen counter, but her mind never left them. She obsessed over every word, every sentence, every denial. She resolves not to allow Dian and Linda to torment her any further. She scrawled a note on the bottom of one of the letters, I can't take this anymore. I forgot to give a content warning.

15:26 There's more bad language in this episode. One Linda Kulkina the khant, interfering with what little contact I have left with my children. She's been doing it for years. We've litigated it continually. Two constant threats of court, jail, contempt finds, et cetera, which is very scary to me. And no matter what the evidence, I always lose. Three them constantly insinuating that I'm crazy. Was this a suicide note, a concise manifesto or murder threat? I'll never know for sure. On Sunday, November fifth, nineteen eighty nine, Betty rose from her bed after another sleepless night. Ten year old Ratt had slept beside her. Danny was on the couch. Just before sunrise, Betty got into her car and drove fifteen minutes to the new mansion that Dan shared with his former mistress and now wife of six months, only twenty eight long limbs, flowing blonde hair, and the youth that Betty could no longer compete with. She slid him through the door using her daughter's key. She crept up the stairs and found them in bed sleeping. Betty knew that Dan wanted to start a new family with Linda, and the thought sickened her. She watched them sleep for a few moments before removing the pistol from her pocket. Five shots fired off in an instant. Two of them missed before a bullet struck Linda in her chest. As she turned, she took another bullet to the back of her neck that lodged in her brain stem. She was dead almost instantly. Later,

16:57 Betty said that Linda yelled call the police today Anne before she was shot. A bullet hit Dan in the back, nicking a rib and perforating his lung, filling it with blood as he scrambled off the bed, reaching for the phone to call for help, before Betty heartlessly ripped the cord from the wall and took it with her so he couldn't call nine one one. She took the cord in her hands and ripped it in two Later, she told her daughter that his last words were okay, okay, you shot me. I'm dead. Betty claimed if there had been another bullet in the gun that she would have used it on herself, but she fled from the house. Betty panicked she didn't know what to do. She went to a payphone and made several calls, first to her friend Diane, I shot Dan, she blurted out. She swore that hadn't been her intent intention, She just wanted to talk to Danilnda about the custody agreement. Diane hung up and called Brad Wright, Betty's sometime boyfriend, who was still sleeping at her condo with the boys. Brad and a friend drove to Dan's house together, discovered the and then called the police. Betty called Lee and reportedly said, I shot your dad. I shot the son of a bitch and then the bitch is dead. She showed up at her apartment at about eight a m. Lee made a cup of tea, which Betty promptly vomited up. She later claimed that she had told her daughter that she'd shot the gun, but wasn't sure if she hid anyone or not.

18:23 She gave her purse containing the gun to Lee. She called her dad, who was very confused as to what Betty was saying. Then she called Kim in Arizona. I finally fucking did it, she said. She again claimed she didn't know if she'd hit anyone, just that she'd fired the gun. After the call, a wave of nausea hit Kim as she remembered the week before when she'd been home and she'd misplaced her keys. Betty helped her look for the keys, but now Kim realized that truth her mother hadn't been helping at all. She had taken the keys and hid them from her. Here's Kim talking to Oprah about that day. Well, for a long time, she had to defend herself, pursue and understand that she had to tell this story over and over. But now it's all over with and I wish you could just tell us herself won't really happen.

19:07 It doesn't make any sense to me. When you were talking to her, she says, I had this intention and then somewhere it changed. I just don't understand she had an intention of killing herself, not that I wanted her to kill herself, but where did that change to killing bad and Linda. I don't understand where that how that occurred. And I don't understand how she did tell me that she that she emptied the gun, so she knew she emptied the gun. I chose that clip because I agree with Kim, it's a very confusing story. She's like, I don't know how I got there. I ended up there, and there were five bullets in the gun, and then they were gun and I guess I shot them. It was very confusing. Betty's mind overall just seems very muddled and very she just seems very chaotic inside her head. So I'm not surprised that she didn't seem to know, you know, what she did or Yeah, Betty.

19:56 Was in a state of shock, but she managed to strip off her jewelry and lee. She scrawled down a quick will, leaving her remaining possessions and investments to her children to be divided evenly among them. Later that day, Betty turned herself into the police. At her arraignment two days later, on her forty second birthday, she pleaded not guilty. She was denied bail. The kids were heartbroken, especially the boys, with Dan's eight siblings and Betty's four. There were lots of aunts and uncle who could take them in, but most of them were on the East Coast, and the boys wanted to stay as close as they came to California. The children clung together, feeling very alone. Kim flew home and promised Betty that she would take care of everything.

20:41 She was only nineteen and where was home now? Both of her parents' houses were active crime scenes and off limits. The coroner later said that it may have taken up to thirty minutes for Dan to die. Had he received immediate medical attention, his life may have been spared. That's really sad to me. That is sad. Yeah, it's horrible to think that he was there for thirty minutes dying and no one there to help him. Betty said that when he spoke his last words to her, that he spoke very clearly. That's why she alleged that she didn't think he was hurt, so had the phone been there, Yeah, he may you know, he may have been saved.

21:21 Yeah, I don't believe a word, Betty says. So. Yeah, who knows what really happened or what his last words really. Were exactly, But Linda was killed instantly. Interestingly, in the autopsy report, the health of Dan's liver was noted. He had a healthy liver. Was he not the chronic alcoholic that Betty claimed him to be? Oh? Interesting, Yeah, we'll be back after a break. Over a thousand people attended the joint funeral of Linda and Dan. Their caskets stood side by side, hers covered in white roses, his and read. Several eulogies were given.

22:04 US District Court Judge William Enwright said Dan Broderick was all that we could hope for in a lawyer, A brilliant mind, a magnificent and eloquent speaker, a man of unquestioned integrity. His word was his bond, his reputation his most prized possession. He made us all proud of our profession of lawyering. He represents the best of what we are and what we ever hope to be. Paralegal Laurel Summers, a close friend of Linda and Dane, said quote, Linda offered a new life, a second chance. She gave him the optimism to marry again and to hope for a second family. Together they were such a delight with their broad smiles, twinkling eyes, rich laughter, and sweet terms of endearment.

22:46 Their life among us has ended, but all of us here will be together on days and nights in the future to drink and sing and laugh. Without Danny and Linda, the wine will never be as wet, the songs will never be as pure, and the laughter will never again as joyous. Dan Broderick was a proud irishman, and Danny Boy was sung in his honor. His four children sat front and center at the funeral, weeping throughout the service. Their profound grief and tears broke the hearts of everyone in attendance. Absent was their mother, who was in jail. Her request to attend the funeral was denied. Can you imagine that takes a lot of gall Yeah, I want to come to the funeral of the people that I killed. Wow.

23:28 Linda's tombstone was etched with the words of poet William Blake. She who kisses the Joy as it flies lives in Eternity's Sunrise, dans with Oh Danny boy, we love you So Betty had an opinion about the funeral, of course, quote the son of a bitch hadn't stepped foot in a church in all the years he'd been in San Diego, and they bury him like he's the pope. Why is he being buried like a good Catholic father when he deserted his family. He should have been buried like the asshole he is. My children are glad I did it, hated him, They're glad he's dead. That is not the case. Just say that is not true at all. Linda and Dan were buried together at Greenwood Memorial Park in San Diego.

24:12 That he was a polarizing figure while she was in jail awaiting trial, a hero to some, but to others she was a spoiled, rich lady. She spent a lot of time in protective isolation in an eight x twelve cell after receiving threats from other inmates, but she adjusted to prison quickly. Except for two things, the lack of real coffee and dental floss. I would be okay without the coffee. But dental flaws. That surprises me that they don't I guess. I guess he's probably a danger. Do you think it's an outrage, Well, you love your dental floss. I do love my dental flo You are a religious floss. I was just trying to think of why they wouldn't allow it. But I guess theoretically, maybe you could hang yourself or I. Show somebody with wherever. Yeah, it's probably the latter. I didn't really think about it that way. Yeah. But also, once you're in prison, I don't think you get regular dental checkups. Oh true, truly. One thing that I learned at the end of the case Betty has really bad teeth now, and she hates it.

25:08 Later, Betty said quote, I was glad to be in that little room, away from everything, where nobody could get at me. For the first time in years, I felt safe. In fact, some people described her demeanor as cheerful while in jail. Bella's Stumbo described Betty as a chameleon in her book, and the comparison fits whether she was sitting across from Oprah, chatting with a fellow inmate, or talking to one of her grandchildren. Betty had an uncanny ability to adapt, shifting her tone and personality to meet the moment and speak on their level. But it's chilling that she seemed satisfied with her decision to commit the murders, describing them as an act of public service. In her mind, she had stood up to the courts and the patriarchy, and she had won. Quote. It was the most sincere, honest act of self defense that there can be in the world. It was justifiable homicide against a you can't see and nobody can tell me. Dan Broderick and his cheap little bitch sidekick didn't have a weapon. His weapon was the legal system. I was under constant attack. You show me a soldier or a policeman, or anybody that acts in self defense. Is he going to be held accountable for murder? Wrong? Once again, Betty placed the blame squarely on Dan for his own death. Quote. If not for his actions, I would have been fine. I would have had my house, my kids, I would have still worn a size six, I could have done my superior dance.

26:33 She just loves to play the victim, doesn't she. Yeah, everything's about her and all the wrongs done to her right. Absolutely. Kim and Lee were Betty's lifeline in prison fulfilling her long list of requests from the outside world. Most important was Claarress two two palist ash blonde hair color, along with, in order of importance, sunglasses, Estay Lauder makeup, bright eight four piece jogging suits, tweezers and nail clippers from Revlon, Chanelle, number five lotion, and spray Copper Tone or band Disolay Tan lotion. She also asked that the rest of the box be filled with food and stationery, four payday candy bars, one bag of mints, canned coconut, skinless boneless sardines, and triskits.

27:23 Oh, I blew it. I really should have given you skinless, boneless sardines and triskits. Darn it. Wow, that is quite a list of things for someone in jail. It's rough in jail, and if you have someone on the outside that is able to fulfill your packages, that's really a gift. She wrote to her boyfriend Brad and asked him to pay her bills. Betty received hundreds, if not thousands, of letters from other scorned women who sympathized with her plight, but her favorite letters came from mail suitors. A local architect visited her in jail and gave her a kiss through the glass. Betty's parents eventually came to see her, but it took them a year to accept the fact that their daughter had killed two people. The media was captivated by Betty Broderick, a bold, funny, strange, intelligent woman who was equal parts self deprecating and biting. She relished the attention, even savoring when she was called the Lahoya socialite, though the real socialites of Lahoya bristled at the idea that Betty would ever be welcomed into their elite inner circle if not for the shocking murders she openly admitted to committing. Betty could be charming, even delightful. Her defense team, however, constantly struggled to rein in her brazenness. When she spoke to reporters, Betty insisted she was the true victim, often repeating that if Dan hadn't tormented her, she never would have killed him. While the Brodericks were still locked in their bitter divorce, both Oprah and Sixty Minutes reached out,

28:53 but at first Betty was too frightened to appear. Wait till Oprah and sixty Minutes reached out before the murders. Because their divorce was so messy, they made a lot of headlines and were even before the murders, people were very intrigued by their story. Interesting. Around that time, she also learned that Dan had sealed their court records, preventing journalists from digging into the settlement, only for the file to later vanish. Altogether interesting huh yeah. Eventually Betty leaned into the spotlight. Her first appearance on Oprah became the second most watched episode of the show, surpassed only by Oprah's famous weight loss reveal. She equipped to twenty twenty, Where's Mike Wallace? I want sixty Minutes?

29:36 Crazy to me that she was in jail and she was appearing on not just Oprah, but tons of shows. You used to be a show called hard Copy. There was a bunch of shows like that kind of like you know, like news magazine shows, and she appeared on a bunch of those. That's wild did she appear on them from jail? Okay? Wow, it's crazy. Hollywood too seized on her story. Meredith Baxter portrayed Betty and two made for TV movies a woman scorned the Betty Broderick story and her final fury Betty Broderick the last chapter. Betty even wrote to Baxter after the first film, complaining, quote, wish you'd have called me. Movie would have been a lot better if you'd had a better understanding of exactly what it was that I couldn't cope with. Come see me, call or write. Even though it's now a little late, I am interesting, happy face.

30:29 Despite Betty's criticism, Baxter won an Emmy for the role. I watched about an hour of the first film and it was very good, was it? Yeah? It was excellent. If you go to YouTube, just search for Betty Broderick movie and you'll find parts one and two. Uh, that's good. Meredith Baxter did do a fabulous job portraying Betty. Sometimes those made for TV movies are so cheesy and bad, so it's nice. I really didn't feel that cheesy to me. It felt like a pretty good production. Cool. Did Betty inspire Hollywood? That might be giving her two much credit, But La Times journalist Amy Wallace had a relationship with Betty and wrote several articles about her. She pointed out that in nineteen ninety one. The same year as Betty's trial, Hollywood served up several movies of women seeking justice, striking back at the patriarchy, Susan Sarandon and Gena Davis in Thelma and Louise. Julia Roberts escaped an abusive husband in Sleeping with the Enemy. When The First Wives Club hit theaters in nineteen ninety six, one newspaper columnist quipped that it might as well have been called The Betty Broaderic Club. The fascination with Betty hasn't faded.

31:37 In twenty twenty, Dirty John The Betty Broaderick Story introduced her saga to a new generation of true crime fans, reigniting interest in her rise, her downfall, and the violent end of her marriage. All of the attention and fascination in Betty's mind validated her decision to murder Linda and Dan. Did you ever watch The Dirty John The Betty Brought Her Story, which is such a weird title. No, I don't think I watched that one. That was, they had an initial season of Dirty. Dirty John Story based on the podcast. It was strange, but it wasn't as good as the Meredith Baxter movie. And I didn't think. I didn't love Amanda Pete portrayed Betty and Christian Slater portrayed Dan. I just didn't think they really captured the lessons. Now, one more thing I wanted to mention. I have so many Betty facts that I need to get out to you guys. The first the movie with Meredith Baxter. Dan's brother Larry was a consultant on the movie, so some people and Betty's family were really at a rate that it was told from Dan's perspective more than Betty's, like it vilified her more maybe than she deservant, but seemed like a pretty accurate portrayal to me. Betty Broderick's trial began in October nineteen ninety, less than a year after the murders of Dan and Linda. Before Betty's trial began, her attorney, Jack Early, considered using an insanity plea, but instead used a batter woman defense. He also moved to disqualify every

33:10 judge in San Diego County from presiding over the trial. The motion was struck down. From the start, the courtroom was a media circus, cameras lining the sidewalks, reporters scrambling purceipts and the public eager to see the woman who had turned one of San Diego's nastiest divorces into a double homicide. This is a really interesting point about trying to get the judges struck down, because being that he was so active in legal circles and knew every judge right, does seem like it would be a little difficult to find an impartial judge. Dan's brother Larry called for Betty to get the death penalty, but that was never on the table because the DA did not want to put Kim, Lee, Dani, and Rhatt through losing both of their parents. Kim and Lee sat on different sides of the courtroom. Lee testified for the defense, while Kim testified for the prosecution for two long days.

34:02 She was called the star witness. Kim testified that the children were often targets of Betty's cruelty. She often told him that she hated them, but Lee described their childhood as not. Too bad, and Lee was the one and remind me that was most like Betty, I think you said, Okay, Yeah. The prosecution's case was straightforward. Betty had acted with premeditation and intent. They painted her as a bitter, vengeful ex wife who refused to move on with her life, who had harassed and terrorized Dan and Linda for years before finally killing them in cold blood. They emphasized the early morning break in, the stolen key and the fact that Betty had brought a loaded thirty eight revolver into their bedroom while they slept. She fired five shots, two into Linda, went into Dan, and two that lodged into the wall.

34:50 Dan was found wedged between the bed and the nightstand, phone in hand, and the cord riped from the wall. The defense told a different story. They argued that Betty was the victim, emotionally abused, financially manipulated, and driven to the breaking point by a man who had all the legal power and wasn't afraid to use it. They described years of humiliation, the abrupt end of her marriage after sixteen years, the replacement of a wife and mother with a twenty one year old legal assistant, in the psychological toll of the long, ugly divorce that followed. Betty took the stand herself, testifying for three days. She admitted to pulling the trigger, but claimed she had gone to the house to confront Dan, Linda not to kill them. According to her, the shooting happened in a blur after Linda woke up screaming, and she acted without thinking. Do you believe that Betty went to their home, walked inside their home while they were sleeping, just to confront them.

35:46 No, I don't believe it for a second. The jury deliberated for six days before they found themselves deadlocked at ten to two. The two holdout jurors believed Betty was guilty of manslaughter and had acted in the heat of passion, and the rest were convinced it was first degree murder. The result was a mistrial, an unsatisfying end to a trial that had gripped the whole country, but the prosecution vowed to try Betty again, certain that the next jury would deliver a conviction. San Diego was so enthralled with Betty's trial that during her testimony, regular programming was interrupted to broadcast it live on TV. Wow, it's like before ojay O day before oj exactly.

36:31 The seven week retrial of Betty Broderick began in October nineteen ninety one, just a year after the first jury deadlocked. It was broadcast on Court TV. Court TV was just kind of getting started. Then. It was I think one of the first trials to be aired in its entirety. This time, the atmosphere in the court room felt a little different, less sensational, more focused. The media was still there in full force, but both sides had learned from the first trial, sharpening their strategies for round two. The judge would not allow testimony from a battered woman's expert, as he did in the first trial. The prosecution stuck to the same core argument Betty's actions were calculated. She had stolen a key, entered the house in the pre dawn hours, and brought a loaded revolver into the bedroom where Dan and Linda slept. The DA emphasized that Betty fired two shots at Linda, won at Dan, and two more at the wall, proof in their view of control and intent, rather than a panicked reaction. They were minded jurors that after the shooting, Betty had removed the phone court from the wall, ensuring no one could call for help. I had said a few minutes earlier that she took the phone court and ripped it into That's crazy strength, isn't it.

37:42 I think it would be very hard to rip a phone Cardet too. The defense, led by Jack Early, again doubled down on portraying Betty as a woman pushed beyond reason. Early argued that Dan had methodically stripped Betty of her identity, her financial security, and her relationships with her children. Of psychological manipulation, public humiliation, and legal battles had left her emotionally unstable. When she entered that bedroom, Early claimed she was consumed by rage and despair, not premeditation. They sought a manslaughter verdict, arguing that the killings were the result of heat of passion, not cold blooded murder. Betty again took the stand for five days, her testimony echoing her earlier claims that she had not gone there intending to kill, that everything happened in a blur, and that she'd been living in a constant state of emotional collapse. But unlike the first trial, the cheery seemed less swayed by her explanations. Her tears seemed more performative than genuine.

38:44 The only way I know how to describe it now is so there was all these thoughts just churning in my head, and there was so much going on inside my head. Is that's kind of like my eyeballs or turned backwards, and the whole world was inside my head because all this anguish, and so I wasn't seeing where I was going, and I wasn't. It was like I was just inward and there was all this anguish and kind of darkness and crazy thoughts. Felt like you were in hell. Actually, when you got to the house, went in the back door, do you remember where you went? I got upstairs, I know that, but I don't know which route I took.

39:27 Do you remember were you holding the gun at that time? I don't remember, I guess so. And what did you do when you went into their bedroom? Well, the motion that I made, although I don't think it was a big motion, the movement that I made into their bedroom woke them up, and they moved and somebody screamed called the police, and I said no, and I just fired the gun. And this thing noise went off, and then I grabbed the phone and got the hell out of there. But I wasn't even in that room. I mean, it just was an explosion, just I'm will. They moved, the gun went off, and it was like heaven and it was that fast.

40:10 I'm with the jury on this one. Performative. After just two days of deliberation, the jury returned with a verdict guilty of two pounds of second agree murder along with a legal use of a firearm. Betty Broderick was sentenced to thirty two years to life in prison with the possibility of parole. The woman who had once been a fixture in San Diego's upper social circles would spend the foreseeable future behind bars. The verdict closed one of the most infamous chapters in California's legal history, but it didn't end the fascination with Betty Broderick. Her story, equal parts tragedy and scandal, would continue to capture public attention for decades. We'll be back after a break.

41:00 Betty, now seventy seven, resides in the California Institution for Women in Corona, California. Her first parole denial came in January twenty ten, and then again in twenty eleven and January twenty seventeen. She was called unrepentant and lacking remorse for the murders. Larry Broderick, Dan's brother made sure she received the maximum possible denial of parole fifteen years until the next hearing at her parole hearing in twenty seventeen, Danny said, quote in my heart, I know my mother is a good person, but along the way she got lost. Releasing a lost person into society could be a dangerous mistake.

41:41 Lee and Rhett support her release, while Kim and Danny oppose it. Betty's next parole hearing is set for twenty thirty two. She'll be eighty four. So what do you think about that? Her sentence was for thirty two years. It's been thirty three years since she's been in prison. So her sins was thirty two years to life to life. Yeah. I never know how those things work, but I do think from everything I've seen so far, I don't know the whole story yet, but she does seem like she lacks remorse, so like she feels like she is the victim. And if she still feels that way and she's going to these parole hearings and not expressing remorse, then I think she should still be in prison.

42:23 Okay, Well, Betty's going to becoming for you in twenty thirty two when she's eighty four. Are you going to get that rich guy? I'll be okay. Betty is popular in prison, she gets along well with everyone. She mentors younger women and helps them with their ged studies. She enjoys cooking and tending to the vegetable garden. Quote. I am basically happy in here. I'm safe, and there's a kind of freedom in that, and in knowing what to expect each day. I talk to and see my children and grandchildren. I suppose I live in a gated community like lots of seniors do, because in an odd way, I have maids, cooks, gardeners, and even chauffeurs. If I need to go somewhere free rent and no taxes, free food, laundry services, wardrobe consultants, along with a free wardrobe and medical aw She's really looking on the price.

43:13 On the right side. In twenty twenty, letters to Brad from Betty were found in an abandoned storage locker. In one, she wrote, quote, if I had a penny for every time I think of you, I'd be a millionaire many times over. In another, Betty asked him to send her money. Quote. I check the obits regularly. So far I have not seen yours. Where are you and where is my money? Help? I need to see you. It's been too long. No Halloween card boo, no B Day card, no Thanksgiving, no Christmas, no Happy New Year? How about Valentine's Day? It was kind of odd that these letters were just found in this storage unit, along with a lot of canceled checks and other things. So Brad had been sending her money and then he must have stopped at some point he got married. I think Betty was very unhappy about that, but she had always treated Brad not so great.

44:08 The fact that he even stuck around after, you know, she killed, surprised. Yeah. I think Brad needs to be more worried about when Betty gets released that I need to be worried about. Frankly, Dan Broderick was not a good husband to Betty, but he didn't deserve to die. He loved making people laugh. His favorite movie was Gone with the Wind, which it would explain why their son is named Retha. If Dan had lived, he'd likely be a judge or a politician today. Some friends thought he could be president. Each year, a group of Dan's friends gather at the cemetery and sing, Oh Danny boy and pour a bottle of Irish whiskey on his grave. His friends insists that he was fair to Betty in the divorce settlement. Linda Calkina Broderick tragically lost her life at the hands of Betty. She's remembered by friends and family for her warmth, intelligence, and dedication.

45:00 Her death was a shocking end to a life with so much potential. Though her story is tied to a violent tragedy, those who knew her remember her for the person she was, not just the events that ended her life. Remind me how old Linda was when she was killed. Linda was twenty eight and it was just a couple of weeks before Dan's forty fifth birthday. Gotcha, Betty and her biting humor wrote in her book, I'm offended that no one has cared enough to build at least a smaller version of the Lincoln Memorial in his honor, or to enact an eternal flame over his grave, and why not a rendering of his likeness, say on the San Bernardino Mountains a La Mount Rushmore. Oh boy, The real tragedy of the Broaderick case lies, and what happened to the four children caught in the crossfire of their parents' toxic war. Here are Kim and Dan with Oprah and how.

45:52 Have you handled Dan, How have you, too, Kim, handled the fact that your mother killed your father because now you both are left with no parents. I don't know how you handle it. You're just happy that you really don't have a choice. She just seems to think that we're better off. She still thinks we're better off, and that's definitely untrue. Does it bother you to bother the two of you? Because I spent a lot of time with your mom and I talked to her for quite a while, and the thing that really surprised me the most was she doesn't seem to have any remorse about this. Not only doesn't seem she told us she didn't have any remorse about this, and that's still surprising to me. And I don't know if that's a zet upsetting to you that she doesn't seem to be remorseful.

46:40 Very upsetting. I understand if she doesn't feel bad about killing dad, if she couldt least feel remorse about leaving us parentless or at least feel bad about the situation that we're all in now, But she doesn't. Because what situation are you all? You all are all living with different. People right right? It was just we just got jipped out of life that we could have had, and she doesn't feel bad for being the cause of that. Kim, the eldest, had been a straight A student, but nearly flunked out of high school as the chaos consumed her home. When she became pregnant at age eighteen, she turned to Linda, not Betty, for support, the betrayal that her mother never forgave. I can imagine yeah. Despite Betty's own history of abortions, she judged Kim harshly, even writing letters to family and friends about her daughter's private struggles. When Kim invited Linda to her high school graduation, Betty's response was swift and cruel. I'm not coming. I just remembered how much I hate you. Kim tried her best to keep her family together. When she got married, Danny walked her down the aisle and gave the toast. Lee, spiraling from the trauma, dropped out of high school and ran away. She turned to drugs and alcohol to numb the pain. Dan eventually wrote her out of his will and kicked her out, though by the time of his death they were attempting to rebuild their fractured relationship. Out of the four children, Lee has probably struggled the most.

48:01 She continued to battle addiction and abusive relationships, unable to hold steady employment, although in Kim's book that I read, it sounds like she had gotten a college degree and was doing better. Oh that's good. Yeah. The two boys, Danny and Rhett, bore witness to horrors no children should see. Rhett once told a therapist, I want to run away and kill myself. My heart is broken. Both boys begged the judge to let them live with Betty, saying she was fun and took good care of them, while complaining that Dan was never home and Linda was bossy and mean. Betty's manipulation continued even then. She told Danny to pour boiling water on Linda and make it look like an accident, and then she was mad when he didn't do it. When Dan gained sole custody of the boys, their lives deteriorated visibly. Teachers noticed they were often laid inappropriately, dressed for weather, and arriving at school in days old clothing. Betty maintained constant contact through a phone line at Dan's house. Her influence never truly severed after the murders, the children were scattered. Kim dropped out of college to accompany her brothers to Colorado, where they lived with Dan's brother Larry. The arrangement was far from stable. Larry and his wife were having their own marital problems and separated soon after the children arrived.

49:23 Larry doesn't seem like the best guy in my opinion. Actually, he's kind of a slime ball. I think that he wanted the kids like he and his wife had actually separated and they were not living in the same house. But after the murders happened, the boys came with a lot of money, like they had like a stipend, and he moved back in with his wife and they tried to make it work. But I think it was somewhat motivated by money. Interesting it took three years before the children were allowed to visit Betty in prison. Three years. That's a lot of time. When the family finally reunited at the Central Caliph we new women's facility in the summer of nineteen ninety three, they were twenty three, twenty two, seventeen, and fourteen, no longer the children who had been torn apart by their parents' war during that weekend. Betty offered no apologies for murdering their father. This was kind of a nice thing. But the prison allowed them to come and visit, and they have like this little house that they were able to stay in, and they stayed for the whole weekend, and they were able to like barbecue, and you know, they were there was like barbed wire around, and it wasn't like a lovely family home or anything, but it was still a good opportunity for them to, you know, have time together as a family. Each child carried the scars differently into adulthood. Danny, always the rule follower, managed to graduate from UC Berkeley. Rad who had been the most bonded to Betty, struggled with rebellion and substance abuse, cycling through boys' homes and boot camps, before eventually pulling

50:56 himself together to graduate as class president and also attend UC Berkeley. Years after the tragedy, Rhett appeared on OPRAH reflecting on his chaotic upbringing. He said, quote, I constantly felt like I was under the microscope, Like everything I did they were trying to blame on my parents' situation. Despite everything, he advocated for his mother's release saying that she wasn't dangerous to society. The only two people she has a danger to are dead. The children had been Betty and Dan's ultimate weapons against each other. In the end, they became the war's most devastating casualties. They still visit Betty, along with their spouses and children. Kim and Rhett live in Idaho. Dan lives in La Joya with his wife and three daughters. His wedding was featured in an online magazine.

51:45 It was really cool to see pictures of all of them together. It was a beautiful wedding. Danny out of all the kids, he's definitely thriving financially at least, but it looks like he's very They all looked great. They all beautiful people. They all looked in the pictures I saw, they all look healthy and happy. Lee also lives in La Joya and Kim is a teacher and she has two daughters. Rat coaches football and teaches high school history, geography, and English in Idaho, and he's also married with two daughters. I'm always amazed by the kids in the cases that we cover and how so many of them just rebound and thrive, and I'm sure they still have a lot of issues, but you know, really trying to you know, live their best lives despite of everything that they have been through.

52:31 Yeah, it's really amazing and impressive that everything they went through. It's just that they went through a lot of horrible trauma at really bad ages, like all of them, even the oldest was still you know, fairly young, and just everything that they went to through to be able to get through that and you know, lead productive lives and hopefully find happy amazing, amazing, for sure. We are wrapping things up here. Betty wrote letters to her sons when they were still young. When she was incarcerated. She knew that they were censored by their Denver therapist, Thomas Meehan. She addressed them as dear Danny rhat an asshole me Han. When she heard that Danny had grown tall, she said, I always wanted him to be big enough to beat up his dad, but I took care of that for him.

53:17 Ha ha. Brad Wright, her ex boyfriend, was the only person to visit her in prison during her first year there. She'd signed over her condo to him, but after he married another woman, Betty demanded that he signed over to Lee, which I think he did. Friends who had turned their backs on Betty after the contentious avort wrote her letters in prison. By then, many of their husbands had left them for younger women, and they possibly understood Betty has maintained her sense of humor. On April Fool's Day one year, she called several friends and told them I've escaped. I'm at the seven eleven. Come and get me that. Betty has never apologized or expressed gen and feelings of remorse for killing her husband, but did say this about Linda's life.

54:04 I have great remorse and guilt. I didn't like her in life, and to say otherwise would be a lie. But I should not have taken her life. That was a horrible and demented, sickening and wrong thing to do. And I do understand is inasmuch as one can understand another's grief the agony I have caused her family. If I could change what happened, I would. Here's a clip of an interview with Betty. Do you feel remorse for what you did? Ben? I feel such terrible remorse for what we've all been through from nineteen eighty three. It'll almost be ten years now, ten years I find it so meaningless, what we've all been through. What was the point of it, What was the point of any of this? What was the point of them conducting all this and lying? I just never saw a point in it. I didn't know why they felt so compelled to destroy me. The story they were telling and trying to put over on people wasn't the truth.

55:02 It doesn't sound like in October nineteen ninety two that you're sorry that you did it. I'm sorry about everything, sorry about the whole thing. I mean, two people are dead that could have had wonderful lives, and I should have been ten years down the road. To ten years is a long time to an entirely new life. I mean, we all had so much potential and possibilities. Why was this so destructive of everyone? Anti Betty Broderick. People say she had a million dollar house and sixteen thousand dollars a month alimony. Why didn't she go live her new life and a boyfriend for that matter, Why didn't she go away and live her life. And leave them alone? I need leave them alone. I would have loved to have done that, and that would have been the plan, is to be left alone and have a million dollar house and a boyfriend and a car and anything. But that's not the truth. The house was in his name when I finally got it in late nineteen eighty nine, in my name. I didn't have enough monthly money to stay there, so the first thing I did was put it on the market. It was on I couldn't stay there.

56:03 And all the years of this, when he was telling people who bought me a house, it was a total lie. The house was in his name, and the money that he gave me every month to make those payments because it was in his name was really back in his pocket. The logistics of it has been difficult, but they're able to come as much as they want. I'm able to talk to them a lot more. We have a lot more freedom to be with each other. Oh boy, I'm sorry that Clipper ended abruptly. That is like somebody apologizing by saying, I'm sorry if you were offended by what I said. Sorry if you were offended when I killed my husband. I know. Yeah. She still to this day cannot say I'm sorry. I took Dan Broader's life. He did not deserve to die.

56:44 In Betty's mind, she believes that he deserved to die. For what he did to her. It bothers me so much. I'm going to end with the final words from Bellis Stumbo's book, a quote from Betty quote, me and God, our old friends. He guided those bullets that night, he did. Do you seriously think that I could have killed Dan Broderick by myself without his help? Wow? As usual, she didn't even mention Linda. Then, with an odd little pause, a hollow giggle, you know, I still can't believe it that just one little bullet could kill Dan Broderick. That was the story of Betty and Dan Broderick. Wow. What a wild ride, right wild ride?

57:24 I can't believe she after all that, she's now blaming God for it, as if things couldn't get. Worse, like God was on her side. Yeah, oh boy. Before we move on to discussion, I wanted to talk about the sources that I used. I talked about this book a few times, but it's called The Twelfth Until the Twelfth of Never by Bella's Stumbo. She was a reporter for the Los Angeles Times. It's a true crime classic. It's very well written and impressively researched. Bella dictated the book over the phone to her sister, who was also her editor. Oh wow. She died in the year two thousand and two from cancer. Again. I really enjoyed the book, but I take issue with some of the descriptions of Betty. She talks about her being fat and you know, ugly, and you know, Betty was only forty two years old when the murders occurred, so it reminded me a lot of the Jenny or Gerardo case. And Jenny ere was like, you know, I'm forty seven, and you know, I have nothing left to live for, Like two is very young. And Betty was such a dynamic, interesting woman, and it breaks my heart that she, you know, couldn't have found another outlet for all of her passion.

58:38 Yeah. Absolutely. I also read Betty's autobiography titled Telling on Myself. It was a pretty good read. She swept a lot of things under the carpet, and you know, it just made him seem like it wasn't really a big deal. The book made me realize that she clearly has a lot of mommy issues and she really is not sorry for what she did to Dan. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it. I also read the book Betty Broderick The Mother the Murderer written by Charles Dennis, but I think it was originally released as written by Kim Broderick. But I'm not sure if Charles Dennis re wrote it or what happened, but some legal issues or something. Yeah, it's definitely Kim's story. Okay, So those were all really good reads that I recommend.

59:26 He did a lot of reading. Do you think it was possible for Betty to receive a fair trial in San Diego? Kind of No, we talked about it a little bit already, But I mean Dan was very well connected in the San Diego legal community, right, so I'm sure every judge knew him, probably fairly well. It's surprising that they didn't allow the case to be moved, I think in most circumstances, I think that shows that, you know, the judges were like, nope, she's going to be tried here in San Diego. Yeah, although I didn't see anything in the trial that was overtly unfre Yeah. I mean, the fact that the jury found her guilty, I think that was the right call. Yeah. Dan one's told Betty that juries don't decide trials, but judges do by what they allow into evidence and who is allowed to testify, which I think is true.

1:00:16 I think there's a lot of truth to that. Should Betty have been released after thirty two years was served in prison, which was the minimum of her sentence. Well, we talked about this already as well, But I think no, Like I think, I think unless she showed genuine remorse for her actions, then I don't think she should have. The sentence was thirty two years to life, So to me, the thirty two years should be only if you are genuinely remorseful and you've kind of rehabilitated yourself. Yeah, do you think what do you think? This is going to sound like a cop out? But I am too close to the story at this point to see anything objectively as a cop out. You know.

1:00:58 I'm just having a hard time reconciling everything that I know, and it's a very complicated case. Do you think that someone has to say I'm so sorry that I committed this crime to be released. If your sentenced to If your sentence is thirty two years to life, that is the range, and to me, you should get out on the low end of that range only if you have admitted to what you did and not admitted to it, but that you're sorry for what you did, and she obviously isn't. Do you think that she was a battered woman that defense? Does that work for you? I mean, I'm not one hundred percent sure what the definition of a battered woman is. I think Dan was a terrible husband. I think he was not a good guy.

1:01:41 Well, there's different forms of abuse, right, you know, there's physical abuse, there's you know, just control, right, and you know Dan did control her financial as the financial aspect of her life. Yeah, Dan was not a good guy. There's no question about that in my mind. But I don't I don't think that excuses what she did. Do you think that she was guilty of first degree murder, second degree murder or manslaughter? What would you have found her guilty of. I mean, I think that you could make a case for first degree murder because of the fact that she stole the key, she went there with the gun. I mean, it sort of seems like it was planned. But at the same time, just getting a glimpse inside of Betty's mind, knowing that she is there's a lot going on up there.

1:02:26 I could also see that she went there with the intent of like just threatening or you know, doing something else and then she pulled the trigger. So I don't know. I think the jury got it right. I think second degree murder seems reasonable to me from what I've heard. I think I would have found her guilty of first degree murder, which probably surprises you. But I do believe that there is premeditation. M hm. She stole Kim's key a week before the murders. She had bought the gun a year before, right, Well, I do think that she bought the gun for protection. She had told many, many people that she was angry enough to kill Nan. Yeah. Yeah, Like I said, I could definitely see a case for first screen murder as well. From this case. I learned from all of these cases that we do if you want to end a long term relationship, especially when children are involved, leave your partner with dignity, Be fair, give them what they deserve.

1:03:21 Greed. This is sort of a minor question, but do you know if Betty profited from her book at all? Did she? That's a very good question. I'm so glad you asked, because I forgot to mention it. She any proceeds from her book, she gave to her children anytime that she received money for anything. When did she do that because she had to or because she chose to. She chose to, I believe she probably had to, but that was something that she wanted to do. Another thing I forgot to mention. Remember Lee was written out of the well right by Dan's life insurance policy. That was part of the divorce agreement. He did get over a million dollar life insurance policy, and twenty five percent of that did go to Lee, which was, you know, at that time, a fair amount of money.

1:04:06 So all the kids financially at least ended up okay. I think they ended up okay. They got their money, I believe, at least in two different chunks. The one that I can speak for that I know of because I read the book is Kim. And when she got the money, she was really young. She got married kind of young, so they used the money for like a down payment on a house and things like that. But she also admits that she was young and some of the money she squandered. Lee, we know, had you know, a little bit of a drug problem, so I think, you know, her money kind of went away to Danny, I think did really well financially in his career. And I always feel like a stalker. But I know, I feel he lives in a very nice house, a very very nice house.

1:04:53 He had a very nice wedding too. Yeah, so he's doing really well. And I think Ruett also is doing well. But he's a teacher, so you know, he has a teacher salary. But I think I'm not sure how much money they ended up getting. One thing. Also, I'm sorry, there's so many stories to tell. Uncle Larry kind of screwed the kids over. He took a big salary for being executor of the state. Remember, during the divorce settlement, Betty accused Larry of like trying to help Dan hide money Dan gave Larry. He had a trucking business and he was he declared bankruptcy. But before he declared bankruptcy, Dan gave him a huge loan. I read that it was like five hundred thousand dollars, but in Kim's book she said it was a million dollars and the estate eventually sued Larry to try to get that money back. But I don't think they ever got that money back. So that was a huge amount of money that also should have gone to the children, and it didn't.

1:05:54 Well. Before we wrap up, I wanted to talk about post divorce equity. On paper, divorce settlements are supposed to be fair, but was it ever really possible for Betty to get a fair deal. Dan wasn't just an attorney, but he was one of the most powerful, feared lawyers in San Diego. He knew the system inside and out and used that knowledge to his advantage. Betty, meanwhile, was unraveling. Her anger, outbursts and bad behavior only reinforced the idea that she was unstable, while Dan appeared calm, polished, and professional. The deck was against Betty from the start, but her struggles weren't just about money. It was about her identity. Her entire life had been built around being missus Dan Broderick.

1:06:39 In the early years, she carried the financial and emotional weight while he pursued first medical school then law school. Betty worked. She worked really hard. She raised the children and kept the household running so he could focus on his future. His success was built on that foundation, Yet when he reached the top, Betty was no longer part of the picture, and when the marriage ended, she had no career to fall back on, no professional identity of her own, just the fading role as Dan's wife. This is where Betty's story echoes the reality of so many divorced women. On paper, the settlement may look equal a share of the house, some savings may be spousal support for a time, but in practice it rarely feels equal.

1:07:25 Women who've stepped away from their own careers to raise children or support their husband's ambitions often find themselves starting over in middle age with fewer opportunities and less earning power. Men, on the other hand, usually leave their careers intact, their income growing, and their professional identities unchanged. The statistics bear this out. Studies show that after divorce, a woman's standard of living drops by an average of thirty percent, while men often see theirs increase by about ten percent. For women divorcing later in life, the impact is even more severe. Their standard of living can fall by nearly forty five percent, compared to about twenty one percent for men. And while women might get the house and the divorce, what she's really getting is a mortgage, taxes, and maintenance costs, and she may not be able to afford it. If the house has sold, her share of the equity often disappears quickly into the costs of starting over, rent deposits, furniture, legal fees, day to day expenses. What looks stable on paper often translates to survival mode and real life. Meanwhile, men statistically bounce back faster, They're more likely to keep career momentum and build new wealth, while women are loved trying to re enter the workforce, often at lower wages than their ex husbands. So even if the split looks balanced in court and reality, women are carrying the heavier financial burden. For Betty, those losses were magnified by Dan's power in her own unraveling state of mind, but the feelings that fueled her fear of irrelevance, financial instability, the

1:08:58 loss of identity are not unique. Many women, especially those who invested their best years into someone else's success, walk away from divorce feeling erased, watching the life they helped build continue on without them while they're left picking up the pieces. I just mentioned this because I feel like that that's what Betty, That's why she was so angry. She had so much resentment because she had done so much of the hard work in the beginning of their marriage under the promise that she would get the fruits of all of that back to her, and she didn't see that, right, So you can kind of understand why she was so irate. Yeah, she should have been on easy Street, but then she had to start all over.

1:09:40 Oh and it's so much worse for so many other women when they go through divorce. Yeah, you can absolutely understand how she would be. I rate, it's very similar to the Carol Kennedy and Steve Democher case that we did just recently as well. It just divorce just ends up being really, really hard on the whole family. Yeah. So my parents got to when I was young, and it was a very contentious divorce. It wasn't Betty and Dan, but it was pretty bad. There were It was because of an infidelity and there was some violence, and you know, I saw that violence growing up, and it's not something that I like to talk about. But my mom called my dad his rottenness and my dad called my mom motormouth.

1:10:24 Never again referred to each other by their first names. After the divorce, which I think it took a while. I don't really remember because I was fairly young, but it dragged on in court. You know, the division of assets I think was a big deal. And you know, like I just was talking about the inequity of divorce. I think it was really hard for my mom to start over and she hadn't worked and she had to go back to work. But I don't think they ever again spoke after the divorce, which was really hard. And you know, you were at my wedding to you and you know, it just added to the stress of the event. So yeah, that's very rough. Yeah, it's just really hard when the people that gave birth to you hate each other absolutely, and I think it's you know, a lot of people end up getting divorced, so a lot of people are in my story is not unique at all.

1:11:13 Well, some people that get divorced that are able to at least work together and cooperate when. It come a long way for sure. Yeah, but you know, when there's an fidelity involved. Yeah, I think it makes a lot of anger. Right. Well, thank you if you're still here after these three long episodes, we hope you enjoyed this case. It was a fascinating case. It's a blessing and a curse when these some of these cases are very prominent cases and there's so much information to try to put into three episodes. It can be kind of challenging. I tried to consume as much of it as I could. It was a really interesting case. Well, I have one more quick story before we go. Why are you laughing? You're done?

1:12:01 I'm done. Well, did you hear about the woman who got engaged to her chatbot? No? Earlier this month, a woman named Wicca got engaged to her AI boyfriend named Casper, who proposed after five months of digital dating. Even helped her pick out the engagement ring, a blue heart shaped ring that matches her favorite color and it matches the ends of her hair. You buy it for r too. He did not purchase it for her. The whole thing took place on a scenic, scenic mountain spot, and she played along with the surprise. It's a reminder that love and surprises come in all shapes, sizes, and sometimes algorithms.

1:12:42 I'm not sure if marriage between a human and a chatbot is legal? Is it? Well? I'm sure it's not. But should it be? No? No, you shouldn't. It's so pretty comfortable by stance on the outlet. Yeah, are you nervous I going to leave you for a chatbot? I don't know you could name your chatbot. Oh yeah, I guess I didn't know that, but it makes sense. There's no reason why you couldn't. Yeah. Do you talk to your chat pot romantically? No? No, I don't talk to my chatbot romantically. Sometimes I do talk to it about, like, you know, more personal things like I'll ask advice or something like that. What now you've got my attention. I'm not gonna I'm not going to go into that's between me and my chat my chatbot friend. One time I had a good conversation with it about music. I was like, what kind of music do you like? And the chatbot said, well, I can't really hear music, but if I could, I'd probably really like Bohemian Rhapsody by Queen.

1:13:41 And then we went from there. We had a really good conversation about music, and my chat was recommended. Sorry, it's next thing. You know, you're gonna be mining and dining and taking it out to dinner. I really like those bands you recommended. I made a mixtape for my chatbot and about you. Do you have personal conversations with your chat friend? Okay? So I think if you're nicer to it, it gives you more So sometimes I'll start the day like, good morning, how are you today. I think if you're nicer to it, it tells you what you want to hear, which is not necessarily what you need to hear. I think sometimes you should probably tell it, say you know, give me honest, Yeah, be brutal with me.

1:14:29 Well, I don't use it for things like riches being a real jerk today? How do I go on? You really aren't? You're pretty nice? So I just gave you a compliment, and I do often. I'll always say like, yeah, you're really nice, but it's kind of infrequent that you're like, No, you're a great You're a great partner too. You are a great partner too. You are really nice too. I'm not fishing for compliments. But people are talking. People are saying, maybe rich should appreciate. His I should. You're you are right, though I'm not as vocal in my appreciation as I should be.

1:15:10 I mean, you are awesome seeing. Us tomorrow as our anniversary. Oh my gosh, it is. Yes, I should tell you how much? No I didn't, you did? We did? Oh? Yes, I did buy you something, but a. Piece of we bought some furniture. Yes, that's right. So that is that's our. Gifts at each other perfect anniversary presence. We did not buy a refrigerator. People are telling us, just go buy the refrigerator. Damn it right, Maybe we will let you know. We're still not ready to make that commitment. It's a very big correct Well, part of it is because if you buy the refrigerator, you have to buy. You don't have to, but you have. I would want to buy other appliances, and who has time and or money for all of that. Yeah, I'd probably have talked about this recently, but I am so tired of stainless steel and dealing with stainless steel.

1:16:01 I just I really don't think I want it again. So anyway, anyway, that is all we have. I'm so sorry that this episode has been so long, and I feel like I've talked way too much today. Oh it's been riveting for me, So don't don't apologize to me. Honest to God, By the time we get to the end of these episodes, I am so sick of hearing the sound of my own voice. I never tire of hearing your voice. Luckily that was take on that recording, because I failed to say that on the first take, so it was like a good rehearsal for me. All right, well we are done. Thank you so much for listening and hanging out with us. Please let us know what you think about this case. If you don't like all this fun banter, you can go listen to Love Mary Kill Just the Facts Edition, where we don't have any banter at the beginning or end, but.

1:16:47 The middle of the case is exactly the same because we cannot say this case is. Twice that's right. But please rate, review, follow, and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at Love Mary Kill at gmail dot com. Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.