Emily Noble revisited: An interview with Matheau Moore

0:00 Hi. I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage. Some days you'll feel like killing your husband. And some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to a bonus episode of Love Mary Kill. Hey Tina, Hey Rich, how are you well? I'm okay, but today was supposed to be my lazy, cozy Sunday and you interrupted. Here I am dragging you into the podcasts. Yeah, I was making chicken and dumplings, cheesecake factory knockoff bread, and chocolate chip cookies, oh boy, just for you, because I didn't think we were recorded.

0:49 Now, I'm embarrassed about the snack that I brought you because that all sounds really good. Well, it's just all homemade and Sunday sometimes I like to do a lot of cooking and reading and I try to, you know, unplug as much as I can. Yeah, well, you are a very good cook, so I'm looking forward to your chicken and dumplings and the bread. Not the cookies though, and the cookies too. Yes, well, you. Feel bad because I always bake for the podcast and I don't bake as much for you guys. So I was like, Oh, I'll just make cookies for fun today. Yeah, excellent, all right, so what'd you bring. Me well Today's Well, before we have snack, I just wanted to say today's episode is a little bit different. We're releasing it as a bonus episode because it is very different from our typical episodes. We're going to revisit the case of Emily Noble and Matthew Moore. So we covered this case in September twenty twenty three, so a little over a year ago, but recently I had the opportunity to speak with Matthew Moore and so we wanted to share that interview as a bonus episode. Before we play the interview, we'll give a short recap of the case.

1:50 But I would definitely recommend that you go back and listen to the episode if you haven't already, Oh I have not, Well, I would recommend that you do. Well. I did listen to your interview, and you did a good job, and it kind of broke my heart a little bit. Matthew's been through a lot. Yes, and it's a super interesting case and it's always kind of stuck with me. So we'll we'll get into that. But first I do have a snack for you. I'm a little bit embarrassed now after you're making all this well, because you're making all this great homemade stuff. But I found this at the gas station. I'd never heard of it before. It is simply delightful, brand. Class I'll be the judges of old corn. But it says on top of it is simply the world's best, and the brand name is simply delightful. I don't really like bagged popcorn in general, well other than Garrett's, which is really not bagged popcorn.

2:35 And this is made in Michigan, so oh okay, always worth. Trying, all right, I'll give it a whirl. What did you think about simply delightful classic caramel corn? You know it's pretty good. It's pretty good from Cadillac Michigan. Cadillac Michigan. Yeah. Well, I'm holding up my mitten hand. Cadillac is like right. Here, it is not quite there. Your hand is backwards. Your hand is backwards. So if you live in Michigan, when you're telling someone where someone lives or where place is, you hold up your hand and you point to it, but you're holding up your left and.

3:17 You can do this we're kind to hold up both hands. We really should have video here. We should. You have to be born in Michigan for this to have that. I have never been able to do that. I can't even show you where we live. I think we live down here. By my wrist, you're still using the Oh my god. Okay, apparently you can only use your right hand. That's correct, it doesn't work otherwise. We live right here. Okay, So you live like on your lifelines, live on your lower lifeline. Pretty cool, right enough, Okay, let's move on. Great listening for the popcorn is my Simply Delightful dot com. And you got the Kramel corn. You said there were different versions of it. There's whole bunch of flavors they had.

3:58 It's actually pretty good. I liked it a lot too. I'm as good as Garret's, but it's not that far off right. I give it an eight out of ten. Eight out of ten, I give it a nine. The story of Emily Noble's disappearance and death is really heartbreaking and also really perplexing. Emily was very kind and generous, just seemed like she was a really good soul. She vanished the morning after her fifty second birthday from her home in Westerville, Ohio, a suburb of Columbus, and months later they found her body in the woods very close to her home. That is one of the most baffling things about this case. It took four months to find her body when it was less than six hundred feet from her home the whole time. And I happened to be in Columbus for my job a few months ago, and I went out there just to kind of visualize the scene for myself. We posted a video on our social media and it was just kind of mind boggling to me because her body was found hanging in the woods, not far at all from a very busy road and a busy bike path. The main question in the case was whether Emily died by suicide or whether it was a carefully stayed Just a little background on Emily. Her life was marred by loss and tragedy. In her twenties, she lost some close friends to the AIDS epidemic. In twenty eleven, her first husband, Mark Farmelo, died by suicide.

5:14 He actually called nine one one while Emily was out and told them that they would find his body in the alley behind their home. Just a few years later, she lost her father after a fall and then surgery, and just a year after that, her mother died in a car accident. Despite all of those devastating losses, Emily showed incredible resilience. In late twenty fifteen, she met Matthew Moore through an online dating site. Moore had moved from Las Vegas to Ohio to take care of his son, Joey, who had special needs. Moore's past adds another layer of complexity to the story. He has his own family history, including a traumatic brain injury at age nineteen, a previous marriage that ended in divorce, and the death of one of his sons at a very young age from a medical issue. Matthew and Emily ended up getting married and moving into Emily's condo in Westerville along with Matthew's son, Joey.

6:08 Matthew had received an inheritance allowing him to basically retire at age forty nine. He would later describe their lifestyle as this sort of hippie existence. They were really into things like rainwater collection and foraging for wild plants, organic eating, mindfulness, and exploring spirituality. In twenty nineteen, Moore's son, Joey, who had been battling schizophrenia, took his own life by hanging himself in the woods. This was obviously devastating to both Matthew and to Emily. It was a year later, May twenty fourth, twenty twenty, when Emily disappeared. As I mentioned, it was her fifty second birthday, and by all accounts, she and Matthew had a really nice day together. They left early that morning and drove to Bucktel, which is about seventy five miles away, to sock up on springwater from the legendary springwater there in Bucktel fed from an underground lake.

7:02 Was it they bottled their own spring water? Yeah? They did. Wow. They had a picnic, They visited Matthew's dad, They went out to eat, and they went out for a couple of drinks that night. Matthew said that he got up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom and then went and slept on the couch so as not to disturb Emily. When he woke late the next morning, she was nowhere to be found. Her phone, purse, and car were all still there in the condo. More thought that maybe she had gone out foraging, but Eventually he called the police that kicked off a search for Emily. The neighbor, John Kramer, said that he saw Emily leaving on the morning of the twenty fifth to go for a walk, but then later he said, well, maybe I misremembered that, maybe it was yesterday. But it's not until four months later that Emily's partially skeletonized body was found hanging in the woods not far from home. While it seems like the obvious conclusion would have been that Emily died by suicide, the police and the medical examiner decided that it was homas. This was based on the fact that her hyoid bone was fractured, which they claimed was rare in hangings like Emily's, and there were injuries to Emily's nasal bones and her cheek. They claimed that these injuries occurred around the time of death, although that would be disputed by other experts.

8:17 Later. There was no DNA evidence connecting more to the scene of Emily's death, but the police decided to arrest him and he went to trial charged with murdering Emily. Moore stood trial in August twenty twenty two. The jury didn't have to deliberate long at all before finding him not guilty. After researching the case, watching the trial, watching all of the police interrogations and bodycam footage, I strongly believe that Emily died by suicide and that Moore is innocent, but there are people who still believe differently. Since being acquitted, Matthew has written a book and he's been very open and proactive about telling his story, hoping to get the word out about the injustice and what he believes to be corruption in law enforcement and the justice system. He reached out to me, and because the case still fascinates me, I jumped at the chance to interview him. So with that as background, let's play the interview now. It's about forty five minutes long, and then we can come back and discuss it. Just to note, the sound quality is not great. Matthew had a bit of a frog in his throat, and I think his phone or headset wasn't the best quality either, But I do think it's understandable and I think it gets better as it goes on.

9:33 Matt thanks for taking the time to speak with me today. I wanted to start out by asking you about your life with Emily before she disappeared In the book that you wrote after the trial, you described your life with her in very idyllic terms, and I wanted to know what you remember most about your time with Emily. He caught me at bunch. I had kind of a reach lifestyle before at her, and when I met her that kind of made it made the choice for me that my partying days were over. I was just gonna kind of do this thing where I was just going to be a normal person, like she was pretty pretty normal.

10:20 And she taught me about how to kick walk in the woods. I didn't think there was anything through a walk in the woods. There is, there's different levels to it and to be out there in nature. We ended up uh uh, foraging, she taught me. Well, we both kind of started doing that at the same time, and that turned into be such a filling hobbies. I just to go to a field and pick, you know, identified plans and pick them and then bring the moment and watch them eat and make salads need them. So she taught me a bunch about about that sort of thing.

11:01 Now it was really neat. Yeah, And I know you and Emily both experienced a lot of loss in your lives leading up to Emily's suicide. I know that Emily's first husband died by suicide. She lost her dad and mom pretty close together. And I know you lost a son at a at a young age, and then your son, Joey took his life about a year before Emily went missing, So I was curious. I know, I know that Emily was close to Joey from everything I've read, How did the loss of Joey affect you and Emily and your relationship? Yeah, that's that's one thing they said that you'll hear a lot that Emily and Joey like fell in love and they came that had this great relationship. Emily wasn't like a kid person. It's not like they didn't like each other, but there wasn't a lot of Emily was very particular and when it comes to everything and all of a sudden, there was a kid until the teenager in her life. It wasn't nearly as like you think it was like a bad situation. It wasn't a bad but there wasn't a lot of Did she loved Joey.

12:17 I don't think so, and I don't think Joey really loved her. Was more of a stepmother you know kind of situation. I don't think there was, but you'll hear in the media that they here, you adore them, you adored her. They got I wasn't paying any attention to them, so she took over all the front of the front of all the all the roles of a parent and that things like that. That's just not so. Joey and I were very very close. We were like we were we were we were were I mean I raised them for so I had had full cutty of them for like ten years of them. Yeah, and we just him and I all the time. So as far as I think some words, how to deal with Joey's deep.

13:02 Yeah, just how did that impact your your relationship? Yeah, I mean I made it closer. I mean she really she understood my pain and she gave me the faith. She helped me get through it. She really did. As far as her dealing her, she never cried over over Joey. Where I stop crying like the longest months and months and months, it was just I was a bullet, wasn't I wasn't really really bad shaped. But she she helped me do that, She really did. She really helped me to Yeah, that really up a few months. I didn't do that because that was my second that was my second kid. I didn't believe it. Yeah, I can't even so it was just it was it just, I mean, to my second son, both of them. I mean, I love both my sons. Yeah, Joey's I mean eighteen years of him and I just were so close, so there was there was never any real arguing or bad feelings.

14:11 I've heard that I blamed her that since said that I blamed her for not being around to help Joy, which is absolutely not true. I don't know, they just I don't know if I've been paying attention. So a lot of the details of my case, but one of the details is that I blamed her for Joey's death because she wasn't there when he killed himself, which is just not anywhere close to being true. So yeah, I hadn't heard that. I definitely did get the impression from everything that I had read when researching the case that that Joey and Emily were really close and there was a lot of love between them. So that's that's interesting that it was a little bit different.

14:52 Than than that. Yeah, they didn't, they didn't they I mean, they got along. They weren't. They he didn't fight at all, but they weren't. I didn't like the special connection at all. Yeah, yeah. No. One of the reasons I think that some people believe that you killed Emily is because of some of the text messages that Emily had sent to friends in the month the months before she disappeared. Now, I know you told the police that your marriage was good, and then they showed you some texts where Emily seemed to indicate that there were some problems. So I'm just wondering how you how you explain that, how you explain those text messages and and you know, was the marriage in good.

15:32 Shape between when she got on her new phone in November of nineteen all the way up until she disappeared, which is which wasn't May May of twenty however many months that is we text every day. He would protect her, literally every day we text. The text They had six hundred pages, five six under pages out of technos with the big fat books. You know. I have them to if anybody ever wants to a copy of them, I'll send them to you because you can really get a sense of our relationship. He had these tech messages because we text every day. That's how we communicated. Out of the six five hundred pages of text messaging, they took ten pages and said this is a troubled marriage. And the worst thing I said was one day said she was shallow. She and we had like this thing where she would get upset very easily to very sensitive, and then it would come right back, like literally that day, it got to the point where I got, well, this is the family, this is how she is, and it's not a problem. I didn't really bother me, So she

17:03 just upset. Later, she's gonna be fine. She mentioned she got mad whatever for whatever reason, and she told a friend of her be a text messaging that that she didn't think that we would be go married by summer. When I tell you hammnus later or maybe half a day later or how long she was, she was just mad for that moment. And she said that for that moment, I don't know if you've ever known anybody like that, but that's just how she was, and she'd be like right back to being the way she was. As far as as our text that that particular text messaging house, yes I didn't. I didn't know obviously that she was killing that way at all. I was the one to asked her if she wanted to go forth, and I would use that if like a way to get her to calm her down, because she'd be like, she'd be bitching about something and whatever. It was such little things.

18:03 It was nothing big, nothing major, And I'd be like, what, you want to get a divorce? She's like, no, you know, I you know, that's not what I mean. And and so that's how that would that those folks things would run the text messaging about the divorce and her talking to her friend a couple of weeks prior about about not being not knowing whether it was going to be married by that summer. You had to know, Emily that it was just a thing that you would do. She kind of was just up and down, up and down. And if you read I have her phone that with all of her technology to all of her friends, so that last nine ten months or whatever it was, if you read through them, you'll you'll get the picture of how she was. It's just something that she did to say that that was an issue. It wasn't. That's all I can tell you. It wasn't an issue. And you know, who knows that I that you what's the police department.

19:03 They knew because they read to all of them, and if you read too all of them, you read them in context and you'll know, you'll be like, well, well this isn't a problem. Literally, she bitches. And then a day later they're back to being normal because they text every day and break there's the proof of it. You're you're getting that like a little piece of the reality of it. Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like on the day of Emily's birthday, the May twenty four, twenty twenty, it sounds like you you had a really good day together. You went to Bucktell, get some spring water, you had a picnic, went to your dad's house, listen to some music, went out to some bars. In hindsight, were there any signs that Emily might have been thinking about taking her own life?

19:50 I thought, I literally was like we were getting over Joey. I would focus in on me getting whether I was go make it Joey's death. That that day was like a hump day, and I just felt I felt great. I just it was like, I'm going to make it. I'm going to be okay. She and she she seemed happy. I I we I did what what you wanted to do. We wanted to which and then we had a picnic, and then we watched my dad for she gardened, and then we went home. We got then I want to go up for my birthday at some drinks. That I took her down and did that and we came home.

20:35 I didn't I didn't see any reason to think that she was unhappy at all. Yeah, So I want to ask you a few things about the morning that you got up and couldn't find Emily. First, I'd read that you you used your fine find my Phone app to see where her phone was instead of getting up, And I know there's been a lot made of that. Is that is that something you normally did, like instead of just kind of walking across the house, sir. Yeah, Yeah. That was my son's old phone that she had a droid and I had, so he had a really nice iPhone eight? But did you want the iPhone eight? And so I switched over it. I gave the under her and it had to find a phone on it because I used it with when Joey was alive, and I used it if the phone was where she was, and it was, and it was after I had already gotten up to look, so it was just like, well, if her phone's here, which it was, and she's around, just around some place, I don't I don't have it.

21:47 They made it a big deal out of me texting her knowing that the phone was in the house. Why would why would someone text someone that doesn't earn the same home with I'm like, but does that don't they? Yeah, they're gonna use that as evidence against me and firm murder is that I text my wife was in the same house as me. That no one would do. That make any sense. The find the phone was They were like, well, if you knew the phone was in the house, why would you why would you find a phone? It makes it look like I'm covering something up where I'm trying to you know it, did you know? I mean I'm doing something like whatever. Wow, I was just trying to see her where she was, because if the phone was at the market, then that's where she was. But the phone was still it was still in the house, and I was like, well, then she's wrong someplace. Yeah. I just don't see why anybody would take that in different I don't understand.

22:49 Yeah, And the other thing I want to ask is when the police came over that day, one of the officers asked if you thought that Emily might have wanted to harm herself, and you said no initially, that she had never threatened herself, But then later you you kind of brought it up again, and this time you were like, I don't know, you know, maybe there is something there. I'm just wondering, like, at what point did you start to think that that was a possibility. That's a complicated issue. What was it? You know, it's been it's been so long when they first got when he first got there, and that she would, like, you know, diach ever to hurt herself or not. I was never going to say so, I though she had. She tried to walked into her trying to because I wasn't going to allow them to take her way like they did my son. When you tell the pretty from suicidal, they just they come and get him, take them away. So so I said no, I said, no, man, she's she's not any more crazy than anybody else. As the day to progress in the suicide, things started to kind of wear on me and it's like, Matt, she could be out there somewhere dead because she kills herself. So I eventually I was just like, you know, suicide, I don't know, maybe, you know, just to just to get it in there, and not that I would ever. And then when they interrogated me the next day, I kept that out as

24:23 long as I could, until I just until they were like, accuse me of murder. And then they were like, well, then what else could have happened to her? And I was like, well, you know, guys, there's a possibility she could have killed herselves. Suicide. Yeah, So it was. It was. It was a weird. What I was trying to do was keep her from if if she when hopefully when she came home, everything's fine. This was just a big misunderstanding that I wasn't going to be like, hey, yeah, I told everybody you're so I and you not have to go to a hospital until yeah, that's what they do. I guess. I guess you could say, ask you that a lot of people like you should have told the police that she was battle. I wasn't. I wasn't.

25:11 In the body cam footage when the police are there that first day, there's there's a moment in the garage where you notice this orange power cord being out of place, and you were really adamant about like this is weird, Like this is really not normal. And I think most people wouldn't have even noticed that. And but I'm just curious, like why did that stand out so much to you? And what did what did you think it meant? Everything in that house was she was so particular. I'm ocv particular about everything. She was very very particular. And when I saw that chord on the cooler, it didn't go on there, and I didn't I didn't want to think to why. I didn't want to like make a lot out of it. They asked me, they're like something out of place, I tell us, and the they we never said anything from them all of a sudden, you just bring me to this court. No, they asked me to point out anything that was out of place and anything that was out of plate, and that condo would be really easy to see. It was. It was like, there's this orange cord and that's the same chord to try to kill herself with like six months prior to that.

26:24 And I was just like, Oh, it's been this cord here, it doesn't belong here. I didn't think, Hey, this is Emily looking looking for something to hang yourself with. I'm not that clever. Eventually, that's because that's what it was worked, looking for something to hang yourself with. And she fucking she took it down off the book and she just put it on a She decided not to use it because it was light out. She actually left Monday mornings when cramers are between nine thirty tents and she didn't want to be seeing walking through the neighborhood with an extension court. I was animate because I just wanted them to know that it was something that was out of place.

27:08 Yeah, tell tell me about this previous suicide at time, because I hadn't read anything about that before. When when was that and what happened? It was? It was, It's in my book. It was a couple of months after Joey made suicide and we were drinking and we would stand in the kitchen and looking at music and drink and I was having a bad night. I was having a real tough time because I felt responsible for Joey to a point where well as any parents as a as a kid, that chills meself. They feels guilty that they didn't stop it. They could they didn't see it. I had started to talk to family about it, and she wasn't getting it. I was like, finally, I said, I shouldn't said it because I was I was drunk. I was like, we are responsible. You and you, Emily and and me are personally responsible for Joey, for allowing Joey to have a chance to do this. I shouldn't have said it. It's just me. I was looking for like help carrying this burden. But as soon as I said it, she just like went in to the garage, went ray past me because the kitchen was the garage.

28:25 She went into the at the garage and I went and on the couch and I was crying, and I just I don't know how long. I was probably about three or four minutes. I'm just sitting at the couch waiting for her to come back in on what she's going to be doing in the garage. It was nice, and she didn't. She didn't. I heard from rumbling around and she didn't come back in though. So I went out to the garage and open up the door, and she had our our attic had you had access to it in in in the garage. It was like a ladder or a tract of the ladder you pulled down and it was really steep, which she did. She took that extension cord and she tied it to the rafts up until in the attic. She s wrapped it around her neck and in a really kind of a neat like adjustable not. She's really good at not. She was good at not and she h she was like lying on the staircase trying to hang herself. Bro and I went up where she was so light, going like ninety five pounds, got I unwrapped the unwrapped the the cord around her neck, and I and she was like almost passed out fairly way. Brought her into the bedroom and I put her in bed, and I kept my eyes on her her next day. I asked her about what was that? Why you doing that? What was that all about?

29:50 She's like, I just wanted to see what would work. Now, Uh, we weren't that. I wasn't like Tullbathorties. I wasn't gonna take the house. So she's because I know she wasn't crazy. She's a very well thought out person. So I just kept my eye on her after that. And and that was and she got to me, she was getting better. She was for the next six months. She just so signed to improvement. I mentioned that she did that. So just one of my friends names Mark, You're a really really good friend of mine, But he's the only one that I mentioned that because I don't want everybody to know that she'd done that. It's because we're private people, and I did. But I did keep really close eye on her, and she seemed to make work her way through that, and by the time she actually did suicide, I thought she had worked. He worked her way through it, and she was on the other side of it. She she tried to kill herself that night because of the guilt she felt or Joey parent's still guilty.

30:58 So I wanted to go back to your neighbor John Cramer. You mentioned that that he had He had initially told the police that he had seen Emily out that morning between nine thirty and ten, and then later he said, oh, maybe I was mistaken. I'm old, my memory is not the best. I'm curious because if he actually did see her, then case closed. Right, there's there there's no way that you could have done anything at that point. Yeah, So do you think, like why why, how did he change his mind about that? And did was there any possibility that he saw her on a different day, not that day? No, he told everybody on Monday that he saw her on Monday. It was I don't know, eight hours later, six hours later, I saw him Tuesday, and he told me he saw her Monday. The police came out with the police briefing for the community of press briefing. It said Emily was lasting on Monday between nine thirty and tent all of a sudden, Wednesday came drubbed out the cave and he changed his mind. And he changed his mind by saying, I don't know if it was Monday or the day before that. I started between nine thirty. Then, well the day on Sunday, you weren't there. We were in butcher Stille, placking spring water. Why did he change his mind? They made that really ambiguous a trial. They

32:28 made it sounds he testified a trially. He told everybody that that Monday, you know what I mean, that that Monday that he no longer could remember whether it was today or yesterday. Then why did why did he Why did they release the pre press preaching on Tuesday saying that the last time Emily was seen was on Monday between nine grade and then again he was the last person to see her alive. So hard is the change change his story? Now you're the life person to see them alive, maybe you might have seen seen her some other time. Besides, you know, okay, you know how hard would that be? Convincing? There love that that that came out really super obviously trial that a great lawyer.

33:19 Yeah, and that that was not Honestly, for me, that was one of the most convincing things about your innocence because it didn't make any sense that I knew. I knew that it couldn't have been the day before because you guys left early that morning. So for him to say it that he saw her on the same day that he saw her and then later to say well maybe it was wasn't It would have had to have been two days ago, which just didn't make any sense that that would be a possibility. Good. And I think that police put pressure on him change his story. I think there's said, hey, you know, you're the life person to see her alive on Monday, be sure you see him he heard the day before, maybe you know, And so yeah, yeah, I think I did here, yeah, and but they didn't know that we were going to be able to prove that we weren't there because they're not good paps. They're not they're not good detective. So it was really super cam bred you caught that that that's one of the biggest things.

34:15 Obviously, one of the things we talked a little bit before we started the interview about. You know, Emily's body was found in the woods. It was about four months after she disappeared. And it still boggles my mind because she was so close to where you lived, like six hundred feet away. And I was in Columbus a couple of months ago and I went out there because it's always it's always kind of boggled my mind. I've always wanted to get a better sense of the location. I did a short video that I posted on the Love Mary Kill Instagram And I know you don't have the answers any more than I do, But do you have any idea why it took so long to find her when she was right there? I'm pay competent, so the dog. The dog don't work.

34:56 They do if they want the public to think they do, they don't. Not all the time. How's the How does the cadaver dogs and the tractor dogs miss her? You know what I mean? And they were right over in that area. Yeah, oh yeah, they walked. I brought them there, bro. They were like, we need you. This is the weird. They're like, we need you to bring up to where Emily has been forging lately, up by the bridge. I'm like, yeah, sure, I mean, why do you want to go up there? We just want you to bring us up there. I'm like okay, And I bring them up there and I walk around with them and we're walking around the woods, the purphory of the woods, and I'm like, this is where she's on forwards. You can't you don't forge in woods.

35:43 I don't know if you want to came up forging, but forge plants are we they are in your lawn. They have to be out in the sunlight. They don't thrive. There's not nothing to forge inside the woods. There isn't enough light. You don't go forward in the woods. They were like, bring it to plate that place that she's been forging. So I brought them right to the bridge and the woods were right there next to the bridge is where she was. And I was like, you know, I would hate to think anybody to drag. Yeah, you guys are gonna go in there and check it out, you know, we're like, yeah, we're many one. It's fine. Uh.

36:24 I had no idea. Why did you want me to show you the place anyway? Would it's such a well traveled places. There's there's if he's not here, I mean, there's no reason for here. You you were on the County Line road right yeah, up there towards the bridge. Kind is going by all the time, and yeah, busy. Road and yeah, bike path right there, and yeah. There's people all over the places. But why why why? Why are you? Why are you making me bring me this? Like make any sense? And then I could? It gets too weird. I don't know how. They're either really stupid, which which is what my contention, they're just really dumb, or they're like they try to set me up. You know.

37:10 They maybe they knew she was in there, and just like I wanted enough time to go by so that the evidence that it was suicide went away and then they could try to make him do a murder. I just don't know which they am. How do they make it? Yeah? I brought him there and they said, yeah, we're gonna go in there and look and gaver dogs caver dog, I mean, they were, they were they they said that the dogs didn't didn't like pick up a cent because she didn't have any body cat. But I mean they they they they those cadaver dogs find I mean the ones that work. I mean they find babies and they find a little you know, like like bones from beyonds Ago.

37:53 If if she was there and the dogs would have worked, I just it's just it's a mystery. And then they, uh, the people, the founder, those women, the founder called Grubs and you know, and but hey, we're so and so this is what we've been doing. We've been we've been taking the walks in in the morning all around West well looking family. We just wanted to let you know that that's what we're doing. And Grubs goes, don't be afraid to search. Well, we've already searched. So would they do? They went to the first place that they searched. They founder, I don't know, you know what I mean, Yeah, that's that's wild, but it's just odd. Yeah, I'm I'm, I'm I've been through a lot, so I I conspiracies are now, like I know, they're like a thing, you know what I mean, It's like I just I don't understand any of it. So I didn't. I didn't. I don't e think completely through this corrupt bro. I had no idea.

38:54 So on that topic, I saw the body cam footage of your arrest, and it was it was terrifying to me because it was such an overwhelming show of force. They've got their guns drawn, a whole bunch of officers pointed at you, and it just felt like, you know, one wrong move right if you reach for your phone or something that could have easily been you know, at the end for you, right. And so what were you what were you feeling in that moment? You know, I'm naturally kind of a fidgety, scared kind of guy. I'm not really that, But for whatever reason, I wasn't afraid. I just did what they told me, you know what I mean, I didn't. They they surrounded my car. They you know, they came up, running up and they're screaming on and I just like I just moved really slow and deliberately and and just kind of like okay, but my heart didn't get racing and it was.

39:46 It was like it was a shock, but it would like just do what they say. Later on, I'm like, why did you guys just call me? I felt you really had to do or just come back at my door and like, you know, like it's like it's no more. You sort of came to the door. Good just arrested me. They did. They It was also it was all a big show, and it was and it was like a movie, but it was like they were really really bad actors, you know, like a really bad movie, real bad actors. That's what it just felt like. It was all a show. That's what it is due the show it really is. I know you've talked about this in other interviews, but when the not guilty verdict was announced at the end of your trial, you were really overcome with emotion. And I know you've said you were expecting a guilty verdict had you had you lost faith in the justice system at that point.

40:41 Yes, they didn't need any evidence to indict me. They didn't need any evident to investigate me. They didn't need any evidence that eret me. I mean, why would I think it would be any they need. They didn't need any Why would they need even to convict me. They didn't. They wouldn't. I didn't, So I was there the whole way. The way I was treated in jail, it's horrible by the lawyers, by civil attorneys, my defense attorneys, uh there they're prosecutors. That it was just they literally went in and destroyed my life with no evidence that I did anything.

41:26 So I mean, now, it's just it was just awful. Oh yeah, I had I had no no faith in any of it. I just had dinner with Connie, who was during number eight. I was just in Columbus and we talked. People like her have kind of helped me with that put faith back into people. Yeah, yeah, that's for sure. I know. I think I heard that at one point you said that you were sued by Emily's family to try to have you removed as executor of her estate. But I don't know how did that turn out. Did that did that happen or did that? I know this whole situation has been really bad for you financially, but I just curious about that.

42:07 I'm like, parents had an attorney out of Wonder His name is Tom Comas Tennis, and after her parents died, she she took on he became her attorney. He wrote, like will, there was a power. He sued me for my executorship over her will. I was the executor. Wanted me to be the executor on her estate. She sued me for my power of attorney, and he sued me for Condomini that we owned. Straight up. He got pretty much all of it out of the will. It was just a big state just got closed after all of a sudden done. It was just like maybe one hundred little over one hundred thousand dollars in cash just sitting there because of the time. He kind of who sued me for the part of attorney, executorship and the condo.

43:10 His turn fee came out of the estate like oh yeah, this dude ripped me off. He ripped me off completely and they allowed it to judge allowed it, and out of pic was one hundred seven thousand he got. I think, oh, but he got like seventy five thousand of it. So I did get the rest of it, the name part of it. He got out of the hundred dollars and he got thirty five dollars he made me pay or him assue me for my for my house. And I know it's just crazy. How is that legal? So I've done what I could to try to like make things right.

43:55 But but if you've got judges don't care, you know, they're out. They're all in this special club, you know, and they don't care. It was bad the attorney. The attorneys were on all sides. I heard an attorney named Garth's Cops out of Columbus, who I paid sixty grand I think to protect my rights as far as in retaining my part of attorney and everything, I might as well just piled all that money to a pile and let it set it on par They all know each other, They're all part of the same club, you know. Just I just yeah, they'd bring me out. I got ripped off.

44:38 Do you do you still talk to anyone in Emily's family or do they do they still believe that you killed Emily? You know? I don't. I don't know. I don't, I don't. I haven't talked to anybody from their side at all. But do they think I killed Emily? I'm not. I'm not really sure. I don't know. I don't know how you could like watch my trial and think that I did. I mean, and that's you're like a dummy or something. Oh uh, because she made a dentist appointment. It's okay, that's even she made as the point and she made her bed. And you know, because you know two set of people, they would never make the bed before they go kill themselves. That's an obvious obvious, right, They're obvious.

45:19 I'm being facetious, right, I mean's just evidence is just it's ridiculous. So what have you been what have you been doing since the trial? I know you got I know you got out of the Columbus area pretty quickly. Uh, and you went back to Vegas, right. I traveled a bit. I went to Florida, Georgia, New York, and I did end up back in Vegas. I wrote a book and just kind of I that's the first thing that I wanted to do was write a book so that I can get my story down on paper, just to get it down, because I you know, you forget things after lot. And then while I was in jail for fifteen months, I started to I'm an artist, but I'm not an artist. I just when I was a kid, I used to draw, That's all I did.

46:03 And yeah, and I picked it back up. Man, I got pretty good at it. And uh, after I got done writing my book, I started to draw. Apparently now I'm an artist. So you've done You've done a few interviews, I know, since your trial, and you you actually reached out to me proactively. I'm curious, why are you? Why are you putting yourself out there? Like I think a lot of people in your situation would just be like, I just want to go back to my life and I want to get out of this. You know, spotlight and everything. Why why are you putting yourself out there? What light? What? Like? Do you speak up? I think it? My my life has been destroyed, and you can't I get to tell people about the what's book Lade Department and the Delaware County practicecutors. I take it, I will take it. You wait until you see this next program that's coming up. It's gonna blow your mind. They they they're they're they're dangerous people. They're dangerous, sclean, competent. I mean that's what I do. I wouldn't feel right unless I unless I I have to. I have to. It's almost like therapy, be able to tell people how incompetent police are. Law enforcements. It filled with incompetence and and and they say it's always a husband, right, he said, no, not always husbands. It's always the husband because he's the easiest guy to put a case on it because they got you know, they got all that information on him.

47:34 They just take his make a story out of it. And it's harder to do that with some random person or just someone that's not that close. It's it's bad, I'm sure because you you focused and on that, I think you got to know that the cops are just trying to close cases. They're not trying to solve cases. They want they want to make it look like they're solving more than any They just want to Uh, they just wanted to close take and what's the easiest way to do it right there? Look, look, you've got ten minutes that he wasn't even a cell phone that takes there, right. You know, I've I've done a fair amount of research on your case. I watched a lot of the trial and we covered it a year ago in the episode.

48:19 And I've made no secret that I think you're innocent, Like there was no credible evidence at all really that pointed. Towards your guilt. But there are they yet Yeah, but there are a lot of people out there that still believe that you kill Emily, maybe some of the people listening right now. So I'm curious, like how you handle the fact that there are people out there that think you're a murderer. That that would be to me, that would be really difficult to kind of handle knowing that, And what do you what do you want to say to people that I do think that you that you did this. There's the reason why my jury would go only out for a couple hours. Uh, you're a number eight that that they literally agreed it came in to deliberate and they all said, well, Woul does everybody think? Everybody said not guilty right away. They didn't even need the three hours that they said. They didn't even need the extra day.

49:09 People think I did this, and you're you're basing it on. You need evidence something just because you don't like me because he's weird. I mean, would they have They don't have anything. They literally don't have anything, because I talked to her in the past ten after they they come to my house without without without warrant, and they're just rummaging through all my crap. You got to understand the way that the police treat you. And it had been two days. So I slipped twice and said that I used to turn the past tense. That's not evidence, that's not evident. There's no there was no blood, there was no How would you do this and not leave the evidence?

49:51 I mean, it was like if you listen to their final argument, they're closing arguments, they say that, I mean, I get off the phone with my buddy Brian at nineteen forty or eight forty. John said that he saw I'm going to leave it eight d which is not true. She didn't go anywhere, but he what he did that he saw come home and at one point he said he thought come home between seven and May. So they just said, okay, you must have started leaving eight oclack for this walk, right, yeah, okay. So I am on the phone until eight forty, and then I'm back on my phone at nineteen twenty at forty minutes, So I go do this thing where you were. I go out and confront her in the woods. Well, she didn't forge in the woods. She would have been outside the woods if she was forging, you know, and she would there was no reason for her to go in the woods unless he was looking for place killers she can get in private. You saw that area, their story didn't making a stamp. It was possibility for me to do that and that and not to be seen. You saw that neighborhood.

51:04 How was I going to walk through up up saying that all those old people that are living in that area, I would have been. I wouldn't. And they said I went up there, killed her drag d in the woods or no, not not even dragger. I fronted her in the woods. She wouldn't been in the wood she was forging. But apparently I went wood fronted or killed her. Went back to the house the condo got on my phone at nine forty or nine twenty. I'm taking eight eight forty nine at nine twenty, you know what I mean. And then and then at nine point thirty my phone goes up again. And then I go back up there. So I'm up up and back two times, once with a flash flight so I can see what I'm doing.

51:45 I mean, it's good luck if you if it's that, that's that's a story that you want to believe. I just I don't know what I know say. I think people just want to think people are guilty. I think people want to believe police. They want to believe that the system is not rigged, so they just they just say everybody prison is guilty. Connie said that that's that's how she felt before my case. That's why she wrote a book. County wrote a book about it. She's blown away. She couldn't believe it. And how often does it happen? And think to do this to me with no evidence. If you can indict someone like me with no records the murder with no evidence, that's really super dangerous. We're living in a very dangerous time. You know what's happened to grub and pet and all the reds that the cops are involved and and nothing, nothing happened. They do it thinks unity, It doesn't even matter. It doesn't even.

52:43 Matter anything anything that we haven't talked about, matth that you wanted to mention. Or I'm sorry, Matt, I don't know how far down the redle you want to go. Really on the rationale behind the law enforcement, especially in little towns with a lot of money. I'm big big city cops, big city problems. They don't have to create crime because there's enough crime there they don't have to come up with stuff. They got things to do. These the country bunking got cops and these little towns and they have no experience. They I mean, be careful, be be, be extremely be on your phone. It was all about the phone, your cell phone.

53:29 Have your cell phone with you at all times, and make sure you're doing stuff. And then then and then because if you're on your phone, you can't be jealous of you know what I mean? Because literally, if you're using it all the time and then all of a sudden you're not using it for twenty minutes, they get they can use it, they can use the interesting they can't eat. They they stuff, they can make a story out of it. Yeah, it's a really interesting point you make about kind of small town cops because part of my thinking is that it would have been easier for the police just to call this a suicide, which it was, and then it would be a closed case and it would be done. So why go through all this trouble? But it sounds almost like you're you're thinking that it's like they they are looking for something, you know, to do, or looking for something an interesting case or something that they can.

54:19 And it literally It doesn't matter if the if it was a murder or to that, whether they lost, whether they won, it didn't matter. It's all about money, about spending money. It's just government. Wait, they had an opportunity to start making phone calls, did it, Matt? What happened to them? We look what they did to me? They destroyed me. What happened to them? You wait until you find out what a wait, You're gonna be blown away. They do this with impunity. They just wanted to They just wanted to spend money. They just wanted to give the public u perception that they're out there trying to get them justice or whatever. You know, It's just it's not and they know it. And they're lying to you.

55:09 They're lying to the public, and they're you're sending their kids to college and you're you're paying for they're more to do. They get paid so much money, man, I mean unbelievable. Their wages are unbelievable. They get they get and and and all the connections they make. It's a it's a scam, it's really But I'm not saying it like in you know, in areas there's lots of crime, dude, Westerville Ohio, What are you kidding me? There's no crime there none, zero. But they got some drug people, big deal murgant. No, yeah, it's just it was just an opportunity for them to spend money and and and how they do I mean, look, look what the dog You know they gave me a lie to text or test.

55:53 You know that. No, I don't think any of that. Yeah, they get They give me a voice and selection test. Everyone thinks that voice light executive test work. They don't. They're inadmissible in court for reasons. But if if if the public finds out that you failed a lot of extorts, you're guilty. They gave me a voice inflection gest And what they do is they tell you you failed it so that if you are guilty, it puts pressure on you. You know what I mean? They by me, uh, the Vanished podcast, Amanda Cooleman, it's absolute garbage. You know you must know the Vantage podcast, right, Yeah, it's garbage that they're the best, absolute garbage. They called what's the vocal Department?

56:42 And Grub told them that I felt like that right in the middle of investigations. What are you doing is that legal? Are you able to? And it's still up on their website. It's still up on their on the Vantaged podcast, there's still saying that there's an open investigation into my son Joey's death. There's a possibility that I'm a serial serial killer. I killed Joey and I killed my wife. What do I say to those people? I think that's what that's the crap on TV. Yeah, I'm feel sorry for you. You're being you're being lied to, and you believe it just stupid, But you know you're drawing people lives and reputations. They're lying to you, and that's the worst journalism. It's not even journalism, it's horror fy.

57:29 It's it's horrify. On that note, I think we we need to wrap up here, but I want to thank you for your time, Matt. It's been great to talk to him, and definitely I've learned a lot more about the case, so it's been really interesting. I appreciate it. Yeah, and keep going with keep going what you're doing. Max, You're one of the good guys. You're you're shows. You're not like lying to make it more since the more interesting. You just telling the story. So so when we recorded our original episode over a year ago, I was pretty much convinced that Matthew was inno, saying you were a little more on the fence about it.

58:09 What do you think is your opinion changed? I know it's been a while, but I did not go back and listen to our previous episode. Matthew seems like a very sincere man, and I feel horrible for what he's been through. I think I was really confused how Emily's body was found so close to the road, and I remember something about that the tree maybe not being like the sturdiest tree. Yeah, yeah, I mean her body was found. You know, it was very close to the road, but it was obscured. It was a wooded area and you had to go down like a fairly steep little hill to get down to where she was, so you couldn't necessarily see her body from the road.

58:50 But the brains bananas that there were sniffer dog searches and the community search too, right, it is crazy, and I'm sure that matt went and searched for and it's just I think that was kind of like not suspicious, but like wow, I just can't believe no one found and she was a very tiny woman though, correct, right. She was and the tree branch. You're right, it was a fairly thin tree branch. But there was a lot of testing done during the trial from different experts that supported the fact that, yes, she could have hung herself on that tree branch, it was strong enough for that. And the thing with a neighbor I was kind of unsure about too. Yeah, that's one of the key parts of this case. I think, can you explain that a little more? So, it wasn't sure. It wasn't clear from the interview.

59:34 Yeah. So the neighbor, John Kramer, he first told the police that he saw Emily that morning, the morning that she disappeared. So they went out for her birthday, they had a nice night out, and then the next morning she was gone. The neighbor said that he saw her. He saw her a lot, going out for walks or going foraging or things like that. Then later he said, well, maybe it wasn't today, Maybe it wasn't this day, Maybe it was another day that I saw her. It's important because if he did see her that morning, then that basically clears Matthew Moore one hundred percent, because if if he saw her leave to go for a walk, there's no way that Matthew could have killed her unless I mean, theoretically, I guess he could have followed her, but it would it would be super unlikely that he could have done that.

1:00:19 The thing is, the other thing that's interesting is that when John Kramer said, well, maybe I saw her yesterday, that wasn't actually possible because they were gone the day before. They had left super early in the morning. They had gone out to get spring water, so he couldn't have seen her the day before. So if he was mistaken, he would have had to be mistaken by like two days at least, which doesn't make sense. And to me, that was one of the key things that was like, there's no way that he could have done this. Do you know how old the neighbor was. I don't know exactly he was older man, That was what he says. Oh, I'm old, you know, maybe I don't remember things well. But it just seems really unlikely that the day of her disappearance he would say, yeah, I saw her this morning and then later be like, well, maybe it wasn't this morning. Just seems very unlikely. One of the interesting things I thought in the interview. It was early on in the interview where matt chose to talk about the fact that he didn't feel like Emily really loved his son Joey, and that Joey didn't really love Emily necessarily. That was interesting because in the research I had done and when we did the original case, that was one of the points was that Emily and Joey were just they loved each other so much and they had this special bond together.

1:01:27 I think matt said that the media glombed onto that. Yeah. Yeah, but it's interesting that he chose to bring that up because in some ways that if they did have this special bond together, that would make a stronger case for Emily dying by suicide instead of being murdered. But I thought it was interesting that he chose to bring that up. Well, maybe he was implying that Emily had guilt because she hadn't been closer to Joey and you know, she felt really badly after he took his life. Yeah, that could be Another thing I wanted to discuss is that Matthew seems to think there is a big conspiracy, like to arrest him and charge him, like they were out to get him. And you know, I think you and I are both not big conspiracy theorists. And when I think about his case, I think, if I'm a police officer, if I was looking for something, the easy way out, the easy thing would be to declare it a suicide and you'd be done. It would be a closed case. You wouldn't have to do any more work on it. You don't have it up as an unclosed homicide or things like that. So I'm curious. And he kind of implied that, you know, they did this because they needed to have crime, Like it's a small town police force and they need to have something to do, or they get funding or something like that. So I don't know, what do you think, Like, why do you think the police would have pursued this so aggressively without really a lot of evidence.

1:02:46 I wouldn't call that a conspiracy. Yeah, I think they falsely accused him, But I don't necessarily think it was a conspiracy that they were out to get him. I think that they when The most poignant thing that Matthew said, in my opinion during your interview was that police don't want to solve cases. Police want to close cases, right, And it did seem that was the case in this situation. And I also don't think it was a conspiracy either. That's why I kind of bring it up because I don't. But I don't know why they went after him so hard, because I really objectively looking at it, it's like they didn't have any evidence and yet they decided to go after him. And it is interesting because different police forces handle it different ways. I can point to off the top of my head, Ellen Greenberg, m hm. Whereas the police said that Ellen Greenberg's death was a suicide, when you know, in our opinion, it looked like it was murder.

1:03:43 Yeah, that seems to be the more common scenario is they write it off as a suicide even though it seems like it might not be. So this was your thing. It was like small town cops who wanted in on the action. And I'm not thinking that, but it seems like Matthew is thinking that. Sometimes. I think that's what the public thinks too, though a lot of time times the public automatically and I think we're guilty of this. Sometimes is you know the husband did it, Because the husband does do it. I don't know what the percentage is, but it's ninety percent of the time or whatever. The husband is the prime suspect because they're the perpetrator of the crime. Yeah, matt mentions in there a little bit of a cryptic reference to some new information coming in. Yeah, I was going to ask you about it was an A and show.

1:04:26 Thank you said that. Yeah, yeah, I don't know any more about that. He said he couldn't talk about it. Yeah. I don't think it's going to be out for a long time, but I am very curious, like they actually did some digging and found some new information. Well, maybe he'll be able to let us know when it's closer to the release of the Yeah, for sure. But also, what is Matthew Moore's What is the name of his book? It is called Emily A Staged Suicide in Ohio. I think it's a self published book, but you can find it on Amazon, both in paperback or on kindle edition as well. I think think about this all the time. Your legal system is it's so expensive to defend yourself and like it financially devastates pretty much anyway, if you're if you are accused of murder, it will financially devastate you. Yeah, and it's so unfair. Do you know if Matthew filed a lawsuit against the county.

1:05:20 I don't believe. So I do know that this did financially devastate him. He had you know, I mentioned he had basically retired at age forty nine because he had inheritance that he got. But he basically blew through all of that. If the wrong man is in jail, justice is not served. Absolutely. I learned that you have to forage in public land, not in the woods. That was interesting. Yeah, I did not know that. I didn't know that either. Do you want to start foraging? Uh? No, because I would definitely do it wrong. It sounds like a lot of work, and yeah, I would probably eat something poisonous that you're not supposed to eat. So yeah, me too. You did a really nice job interviewing Matthew. I think you're a real natural. You're a real Barbara Walters. Are real. What's the contemporary equivalent of Barbara Walters?

1:06:12 I don't know. I was going to say Diane Sawyer, but that is not contemporary either. I'm showing how old we are. Let's see, you're a real. Keith Morrison. No, I don't know, you're a real. Terry Gross is a compliment. Howard Stern, You're a real Joe Rogan. Well, thank you, Thank you so much to Matthew for taking the time out and and doing that interview with you. Much appreciated. So you've been real quiet about Michigan lately, University of Michigan football, I have. You've got the Lions and wearing a Lion shirt right now.

1:06:56 It's just sad that last season Michigan was so good on defeated national championship and then to fall from the If. You recall I told you many times, relish this because next season is going to be different. Yeah. I did relish it, but I wasn't expecting it to be quite as bad as it has been. I think their games have been close, Yeah, haven't they? I'm not really sure. Yeah, I mean yesterday they played Indiana University, not University of Indiana. Right, Yeah, we apologized to whoever called us out on that. Yeah, but they played Indiana University, who was highly ranked, undefeated, and they actually they lost, but it was at least somewhat close. So Christmas right around the corner.

1:07:40 Great segue. So yes, Chris, Well. We're just trying to wrap it up. So I just wanted to remind you, make you accountable to our listeners that Christmas is coming. Yeah, how's your Christmas list coming? You know what, none of it's going. I normally I have a pretty good start, but I just I don't have a lot of great ideas. Yeah so yeah, at our advanced age, I think that. Oh your birthday is right around the corner too. By the way, when a you were we still have a couple of weeks. Yeah till everyone. If anyone wants to, you know, wish Rich a happy birthday, send me a note that I can read to him. Yeah, that would be exciting. The things you want when you were older are like more time with your family and friends. You want to lose ten pounds twenty in my case, or you know things like that that that you really Yeah, you.

1:08:31 Want the intangible things, not the material. Yeah, you want happiness, you want peace. You want a good night's sleep. Oh yeah, I would love a good night's sleep for my birthday. Yeah you've been waking up really. Yeah, time change one hour, it's just messed with me. You've got more like that hour gave you were sleep. But somehow it messed you up. I know it did. Like a three month old baby. In a lot of ways, ye, well, thank you all for listening. I hope that you enjoyed this special bonus episode A little bit different. Let us know what you think and let us know your opinions on Matthew Moore Emily Noble Case. I'd be interested to hear what others think about it as well. Send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1:09:11 Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it so much. Until next time, don't kill your wife, don't kill your husband,