Gail and George Fulton - Part 1

0:00 Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned over twenty years of marriage. Some days you'll feel like killing your husband. And some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Literally, Welcome to love, Mary Kill. Hey Tina, Hey Rich? How are you today? Fine? How are you? I'm good? Did you bring sassy Tina to the recording? Po Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah, a little bit, a little bit, got a little bit of a headache, and not to complain, but the weather here has been bananas and it's like sixty degrees, but it feels like there's dampness in the air.

0:47 It feels like fall. Yeah, I feel really ugly today, you know, like, well, that's nice of you to say, but you're lying because I'm like pale and I feel I don't know, just wow, my hair's a mess, my socks didn't really match my outfit today. So you are feeling sassy. I mean maybe defeated is a better word. So sometimes, yeah, I might feel a little snarky today, but I am excited to be here and you have a big day tomorrow. This is your last day of It's like your last day of summer vacation. It is. Yeah, tomorrow, you're going to wake up. I'm going to have to like get you you're packed by lunch. I'm going to pack your lunch. I'm going to make you a special breakfast. I'm going to take your picture. Yeah, because it's your your first day.

1:27 Of starting new job tomorrow. So yeah, your new company, like you'll get a lot of new listeners for us. It's a small company, Like I said before, it's only maybe sixty people or so, so you know, maybe maybe we'll get a few. Well, speaking of new listeners, we've got a lot of new listeners join us, and we're so grateful. Welcome to the podcast. A huge thank you to Jesse and Andy from Love Murder, who gave us a shout out in one of their recent episodes, and a lot of their listeners came over and listened to us. So to our listeners if you haven't listened to Love Murder, it really is. I'm I'm not exaggerating one of the best podcasts out there. I've listened to them throughout the years, and when I hear them, they're so good and so professional, I'm like, I don't know what we're doing. We might as well just throw away our microphones because they're that good. So please go listen to Jesse and Andy at Love Murder.

2:16 Have a Memorial Day. I can't believe it's already Memorial Day. I know I have been wearing white pants. I have worn white pants a few times and white shorts a few times. So that's how our rebellious I am you are. Yeah, today is a special day for us. It is the birth of the anniversary of the birth of our first child, of Emma, my little podcast Money. Yeah, we love you so much. I know you're not listening, but we love you so much. If someone is listening that happens to know Emma, tell her we wish her a happy birthday. Well, if you want to leave a little note for Emma in show notes, I think she would really love that. She was so happy to read all your nice comments and feedback from the Mother's Day episode. She really is a fabulous and we love her so much. Yes, so golden, they too. She doesn't like gold, so I don't know what you do with that. Maybe we just get our bars of gold.

3:05 Hmmm, we'll talk about that later before we get to the case. Would you like a snack? Actually, kind of full. Oh okay, well, good more for me. Then, we have had so many nice listeners send us snacks in the mail lately. It's just so it's great. We just love that. And we have some more listener snacks today. So our friend Sam sent us a couple of things, one from BUCkies, which we talk about a lot, even though we've never been there. It's a dream. But she sent us some sea salted caramel beaver nuggets, and she sent us some pockeys, almond crush flavor pockeys, and so that's pretty cool. And then my dear sister Julia also sent us a couple of things from BUCkies. She and her husband were on a little road trip and they went to a BUCkies and she sent us some peanut brittle and some pecan.

3:49 Briddle full disclosure. She also sent a package of the beaver nuggets. Oh, and I ate. When I opened both the packages that they both sent the same negatus. I'm like, well, we don't need to eat too mary disease. So yeah, those were delficious. Sam is a really good friend of the pod. Sam and her husband Tim lived in Italy. They lived in Europe. I think I'm not sure for Holland, but it was for several years, but recently they have moved back to the United States and they settled in Texas, and so that's why she was at BUCkies and sent us the Bucky snacks. But it was probably maybe a year ago, and Sam sent us up a bunch of snacks from Italy and that was super fun. And now she's in the US, so she sent us us so that was really kind.

4:31 That's fine because my sister, my sister was in Texas also when she went to BUCkies. Wouldn't that be weird? Bright she Oh, sorry, no, I love. To hear you saying that. I just thought it would be really weird if she and Sam were at the same BUCkies at the same time. I don't really know. They never would have known. No, we should also give a shout out to my sister Julia, who sent us the other snacks from BUCkies. She makes jewelry and she makes all sorts of jewelry and it's really unique interesting. Yeah, so you should check her work out. Yeah, please check her out on Instagram. Her shop is called Grandma J Baked Clay g r A m M A Underscore J Underscore Baked Underscore Clay, give her a follow and check out her shop. All right, let's try these snacks. Let's how did you enjoy that assortment of lovely snacks, good stuff stuff. What was your favorite?

5:24 Well, my favorite probably would have been the Texas Heat dip and cheeseball mixed that Sam sent that you didn't make you loved it in the box. Sorry Sam, but. They were all really good. And Sam also sent us a Texas soap and a cute little Texas sticker that I just put on my MacBooks. That's so nice, so sweet. What was your favorite snack? I love the peanut riddle. You're a big peanut turtle guy. Big peanutpridtle fan. But I also love the beaver nuggets too. I mean we've had those before, but they are so good. I'm a little worried about the working conditions in the beaver factory. How are they compensated? Like Bucky makes it a lot of They make a lot of stuff. Yeah, there's probably a whole, you know, litter of BUCkies working for peanuts.

6:08 I'm sure that BUCkies compensates their be for employees very well. Do you think it's sanitary? Do they wash their pause for twenty seconds before they start making the peanut riddle. I am co saying they're like licking their paws as between. All right, let's get to the case. All right. Well, thank you Sam and Julia for the snacks. We love you both very much. It was just after nine pm on a chilly Monday night in October nineteen ninety nine. The Lake Orion, Michigan Public Library was closing up for the day. Barbed, the library supervisor, stayed behind with one other staff member to run the computer backups, a routine task that would only take ten or fifteen minutes. Meanwhile, forty eight year old Gail Fulton and two other library aids stepped out through the employee entrance and into the chilly night air. They said their goodbyes and headed to their cars. Gail climbed into her maroon Plymouth Grand Voyager and began to pull out of her parking space, but something didn't feel right.

7:01 The van had barely moved when Gail stopped. She pulled back into the spot, stepped out, and walked around to the passenger side. That's when she saw it. One of her tires was completely flat. By now, the others had already driven off, leaving Gail alone in the lot. She turned to head back toward the library. That's when a car pulled up. Its headlights blazed into her eyes, blinding her. Then the back door opened, a man in black stepped out, his face hidden behind a ski mask. He raised the gun and pointed it at Gaile. She didn't have time to scream, let's back up and get to know Gail Fulton. She was born Martha Glee Garza in Corpus Christi, Texas, the youngest of two children. Her father, Noe Garza, had just finished law school. He built a successful legal career and was eventually appointed a federal judge, as was his brother, Margherito.

7:51 Gaile's mother, Dora, worked at Noae's firm, first as a legal assistant, then as a paralegal, but her contributions extended beyond the office. Dora was a devoted member of Saint Teresa Catholic Church and a driving force in the city's Hispanic community. She founded the Museum of Hispanic Culture and later helped secure its permanent home. The Garzas were well known in Corpus Christi. Gail was raised in a traditional Hispanic American Catholic household, tight knit, church going, and achievement oriented. She attended an all girls Catholic high school, where friends remembered her as both proper and playful, a good girl with a fun streak. In high school, she was active in her parish's Catholic youth organization, and that's where she met George Fulton. George's background couldn't have been more different.

8:37 While Gail grew up in a prominent family with just one sibling, George was one of nine. His father died young, leaving his mother to raise the kids on her own. Money was tight, but George thrived. In high school, he ran cross country, was first chair clarinet in the band, and served as senior class president. He was charming and well liked and not short on female admirers. When George and Gaylee meant, they clicked immediately and started dating. But George had plans. He was determined to become a career military officer, and he was accepted into West Point. Gail enrolled at Baylor University, where she studied speech therapy. They kept in touch through occasional letters, but slowly drifted apart, each focused on their own path. Still, they believed that if it was meant to be they would find each other again, and they did. After graduation, both returned to Corpus Christi. They reconnected and picked up right where they had left off. In nineteen seventy five, they got married and started a family. Melissa was born in nineteen seventy six, Emily in nineteen eighty, and their son, George Andrew arrived in nineteen eighty one. A year after the wedding, Gail left her job to stay home with the kids. Money was tight in those early years, and Gail often made personal sacrifices to keep the household running. She took pride in being a devoted traditional wife, supporting George in whatever he chose, even if it came at her own expense.

10:00 For his part, was comfortable calling the shots when it came to big life decisions, even those that affected the entire family. He rarely asked for Gayl's input. One of the biggest decisions George made without much input from Gail was moving the family to Michigan in nineteen ninety six. I think that's when I moved to Michigan or around thereineteen ninety six orwety seven. Weird in Texas George had struggled to find work he felt was worthy of his talents. He started an electronic medical claims business, but it turned out to be a scam and cost him thousands. Later, he tried selling insurance and offering financial planning services. That didn't bring in much income either. Still, he bought himself a one hundred dollars tie to look the part of a successful businessman, while Gayle quietly tightened the family's budget to keep things afloat.

10:46 So that's about two hundred dollars for a tie today. It's a nice tie. What kind of tie was it. I don't know. I'm guessing it was a fancy silk designer tie. I think I think George, like when he was selling insurance, he wanted to look the part of like a successful businessman, and he didn't really care that much that it would make things harder in the household because they really didn't have a lot of money at that point in time. And I think that's sort of the rhythm of Gail and George's marriage. George did what he wanted, he sort of chased his dreams, and then Gail dealt with things and tried to keep things afloat at home. Do you think in most marriages there's a spender and a saver. No, cup, I don't know. I'm sure every marriage is different.

11:28 Well, I think everyone knows what you were implying. Well, some of us might need more than one pair of shoes every eight years. I can't imagine why. Then George got an offer from an automotive supplier in Michigan. It was a good opportunity, steady pay, decent benefits. George didn't hesitate. Gail, on the other hand, had reservations. Her father had passed away years earlier, and she was very close to her mother. The family was deeply rooted in Corpus Christy, with a strong church community and a wide circle of friends. Gail knew her mother would need more help as she got old, and she wanted to be there, but she kept these concerns to herself. George had made up his mind, and Gail did what she always did, supported his decision, even when it cost her something. There were a few bright spots.

12:12 The job offered financial stability, and they could finally help the kids with college expenses. They bought a modest, brand new house in a nice neighborhood and since it was still under construction, Gail had the chance to choose some of the finishes. It gave her a small sense of control, something she didn't often have. The house was in Lake Orion, Michigan, a postcard perfect town of about three thousand, thirty five miles north of Detroit. I know her with its tree lined streets and shimmering lakes. The town's motto was where living is a vacation. I know Lake Orion very well too. I actually grew up about ten minutes away from Lake Orion, so very close to home. My grandma actually lived in Lake Orion. Yeah, I think I met your grandma. You did a couple of once or twice. Yeah, I think she was in her twilight years by the time that met her.

12:59 Yeah, I think she way probably soon after we got together, unfortunately, but she lived in Lake Orion and my family went there every Sunday for years, so it's a beautiful place. By the time they moved, their oldest daughter, Melissa, was in college and stayed behind George. Gail. Emily, who was sixteen at the time, and Andrew, who was fourteen lived in a small apartment while they waited for their house to be finished. Once they moved in, everyone settled into their new routines. Everyone except Gail. George was frequently away on business, often gone for days or even weeks. The kids stayed busy with school and activities, but Gail she felt the absence of everything that she had left behind. She didn't get to know her neighbors and didn't seem eager to try. Her world had gotten smaller. She eventually took a part time job at the Orion Township Public Library, just ten minutes from home. It was a good fit.

13:48 She loved books, but it didn't fill the void. She missed her family in Texas. She missed her mother, and gradually she began to lose weight. Her hair started falling out. The sadness was hard to ignore, but easy for others to overlook. George wasn't happy either. His own job wasn't living up to expectations. He still dreamed of running his own company, of being in charge of skipping the ladder and going straight to the top. He felt destined for something bigger, and increasingly restless in the life that he had. That restlessness crept into other parts of his life. He wasn't just looking for a new job. He was looking for a spark, something exciting. Sounds like a good time to start a gratifying hobby like woodworking.

14:29 That would have been a great idea, But instead, I think George was looking for someone new, and he found her on a business trip to Florida. Her name was Donna Trapani. By Donna Kay Williams. Grew up in Louisiana, spending most of her childhood in New Orleans. According to Donna, when she was just six weeks old, her father, during a fit of rage, threw her against a wall. Her mother kicked him out, and he never came back. Whether that story is true or not as hard to say. Donna wasn't always a rel liable narrator of her own life, but what is certain is that she grew up without a father. I hope this story is not true, because I can't imagine a more horrible thing a six week old baby throwing her against a wall.

15:11 After high school, she earned an associate degree in data processing, then went on to nursing school, graduating as a registered nurse in nineteen eighty one. She worked at a local hospital for a while, then took a job in home health care somewhere Along the way, she met Chuck Trapani. They married in nineteen eighty nine. Donna was sharp and ambitious. Her time in home health care sparked an idea, why work for someone else when she could run her own company. The home health care market was booming, so in nineteen ninety six, she and Chuck packed up and moved to Fort Walton Beach in the Florida Panhandle and launched their own business, Home health Care Systems, or HHCs. They opened their doors in February of that year. It took several more months to secure all the necessary licenses, but soon they were up and running. Donna and Chuck built a team of registered nurses LPNs and home health care aids to care for the elderly patients in their homes. The business did well, at least at first, but Donna had some serious shortcomings as a manager. She was a micromanager with a volatile temper, and employees never knew which version of Donna they'd get on a given day. Sometimes she was cheerful and upbeat. Other times she was caustic, unpredictable, and cruel, publicly belittling staff in front of their peers.

16:29 Do you ever have a boss like that. I mean, I think it's describing me. No, have you had a boss like that? I had one that comes to mind. I think you know who I mean. I'm not sure. Oh, I do know. She would call employees late at night on their days off, with non urgent questions. She demanded complete loyalty. Disobedience, no matter how small, was not tolerated. Her behavior was erratic and emotionally exhausting. Colleagues described her as scattered and impulsive, the mood swings that could change in an instant. Many suspected she suffered from bipolar disorder, though she was never formally diagnosed. At the center of her emotional storm was her husband, Chuck.

17:11 He adored her and seemed willing to do anything for her, but Donna appeared to openly despise him. She humiliated him regularly off and in front of her staff, as if to remind everyone who was in control. I think that's one of the worst things you can do to someone. Yeah, absolutely, you should always reprimand someone in private. It wasn't just her temperament that repelled people, It was also her disregard for basic hygiene. She was known to bring paperwork into the bathroom with her and then handed directly to staff afterward. One employee began spring anything she touched with lysol before handling it, and yet her employees stayed. Why because she paid well, far better than any other agency in the area.

17:56 For many, the money outweighed the misery. At least for a while. Donna had a particular disdain for anyone she saw as smarter or more experienced than she was. At one point, a major corporation expressed interest in buying HHCs, an acquisition that could have set her up financially for life. But when the accountants and consultants arrived to conduct their due diligence, Donna torched the opportunity. She was abrasive and aggressive, swearing at them so freely it felt theatrical, like she was trying to blow it up. And that's exactly what happened. The deal collapsed. Whatever Donna wanted, she wanted it on her terms, and if things didn't go her way, there was always someone else to blame. We'll be back after a break. In October nineteen ninety seven, George Fulton was on a business trip in Florida. Not far from his hotel was a run down local dive bar called the Seagull Bar. One evening, looking for a dream and maybe at distraction, he wandered in. That's where he saw her, forty four year old Donna Trapani, sitting alone at the bar. George, never short on confidence, walked right up and asked her to dance. She turned him down flatly, saying she didn't like the song that was playing. Undeterred, he asked again when the next song came on, then again, three times, three rejections. Finally he leaned in and said, quote, when you hear a song you like, you come and get me.

19:28 A few minutes later, Caribbean Queen by Billy Ocean came on, and who can resist that sign? Of course, Donna got up, found George and pulled him onto the dance floor. They danced, then they talked, and then they went their separate ways. Two weeks later, on Halloween night, they ran into each other again, same bar, same spark. This time they stayed longer. They drank, they danced, they laughed. George fell a connection. Donna wasn't just attractive, she was accomplished. She ran her own company. She had power and fire, the kind of drive George admired and craved to him. Donna was everything Gail wasn't. Gail was quiet, self sacrificing, supportive to a fault. Donna, on the other hand, was bold, direct, unapologetically in control.

20:17 That night, they made out in Donna's car before heading back to George's hotel. It's funny that you use the word made out. I know, it kind of sounds like teenagers, doesn't it. Just before they got to the room, George paused and told her that one thing he hadn't yet mentioned he was married. Did he not have a ring? You probably don't know that, probably don't know that. He said the marriage was over and all but name, and that he'd been unhappy for years. Donna didn't walk away. The next day, they met for lunch. From that point on, the relationship took off, with George stepping deeper into a double life and Donna welcoming him into hers. George spent most of November in Florida for work and nearly every evening with Donna. When he returned to Michigan just beare for Thanksgiving, Gail and the kids didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. George was always a bit reserved and a little irritable. Nothing seemed different. While apart, George and Donna kept in close contact by phone facts and email sign up. There are a lot of their correspondence was over a fax machine, which I find really funny.

21:20 Donna was the more expressive of the two, sending long, often steamy notes filled with fantasies and affection. She flattered George's ego, praising his prowess in bed and telling him how much she missed him. George was more guarded, but on December nineteenth he let his guard slip and he told Donna that he loved her. Around that time, their conversations shifted from passion to business. Donna asked George if he would consider working for her full time. She needed someone with financial expertise, and George fit the bill. At first, they went back and forth about logistics and titles, but in January nineteen ninety eight, George agreed to start his own company and act as a private contractor for HHS. Yes.

22:00 It gave him the illusion of independence, his long desired dream of running a business, when in reality he was working full time for Donna. The plan was for George to travel to Florida twice a month and work remotely the rest of the time. That same month, Donna made a clean break. She kicked Chuck out and filed for divorce. Chuck moved back to Louisiana. Donna was all in on George. George, however, wasn't quite as decisive. He told Donna he loved her, He made promises, but when it came to ending things with Gail, he stalled. To complicate matters, Donna was now his employer. George set up a business line at home and converted part of the basement into an office. He and Donna spoke frequently, some calls about business, many more personal.

22:45 When she couldn't reach him on his direct line, she'd call the house. Occasionally Gail or one of the kids would answer. Donna didn't try to hide her presence as George's boss. Her calls weren't unusual, but no one in the Fulton household liked her. When she with the kids, especially Emily, she would act all friendly, asking questions about school and home life. It was almost like Donna was acting like she wanted to be friends with Emily. Emily was polite, but she was wary. Over time, she began to suspect the truth her father was having an affair. So Emily was more perceptive than Gail. I think Emily was very perceptive. It could also be that Gail was in denial a little bit. I think she probably didn't want to believe that. Well.

23:28 Earlier, you said that Gail was going through a hard time, right. I think with the move, she was feeling a little depressed and she. Isolated her own fog and might never realized what was going on. That could be as well, and I think over time I think it became more apparent, but it was never discussed openly in the household. At HHCs, George was well liked. He was calm, competent, and approachable, everything that Donna wasn't. Employees found him steady and professional. They knew about his relationship with Donna, and they knew that he was married, but they assumed he and his wife were separated. Meanwhile, Donna's feelings for George deepened quickly and intensely. She talked about him constantly, gushing to her staff about how perfect he was. When George wasn't in town, it was as if she couldn't think of anything else. Through the winter and into early spring of nineteen ninety eight, the affair intensified.

24:18 George continued his bi monthly trips to Florida and went apart. The two exchanged long letters, emails, and faxes. Sending your love letter by facts is probably not the best. Thing to do. Why not? I can't imagine. Okay, so I'm old enough. I worked in an office where we had a fax machine and in case anyone has forgotten or doesn't know the facts, just they all came in and they sat on the fax machine all day. And so you know, Sally in accounting would come over and be like, oh, did you get my facts? And then she would have to shift through all the papers, and you know, unless you knew the facts was coming, yeah, you know, it would be a little bit dangerous. Well, George had a fact in his home office, and I think Donna was the one who sent the longer, more rambling kind of letters, so I think he probably got those. But yeah, you're right.

25:04 Still, it's leaving a paper trail. Yeah, that's always dangerous. You know, where an email is easier to delete or hide. You know, once you have that paper, it's like, unless you're going to burn it, it's there. Yeah, for sure. Their relationship went on this way for a while, but Donna wanted more. She had left her husband and changed her life. She expected George to do the same. But for George, it wasn't that simple. He had two kids still in high school. He felt pressure to maintain the appearance of a good husband and father, especially in the eyes of his large, conservative Catholic family. Divorce wasn't just a personal decision. It would be a public failure. Oh gosh, not the Catholic man not wanting a divorce. Yeah. He told Donna that he loved her, but he also made it clear he could never bring another woman home to meet his mother. Donna claimed to understand, but her patience was wearing thin. Whenever George mentioned Gail, it sent her into a quiet rage. In Donna's mind, Gail wasn't just his wife, she was the one thing standing in the way of Donna's future. By April, Donna delivered an ultimatum she needed a timeline. George stalled. He wrote her a long emotional letter, assuring her of his love and explaining that he was wrestling with complicated feelings. He told her he just needed a little more time to as he put it set the end in motion. By May of nineteen ninety eight, George said he was ready.

26:25 He promised Donna not only his love, but his full professional commitment as well. He would take on the role of chief financial officer at HHCs, and he would relocate to Florida to be with her. Can you give us an idea of how big hh CS was. I'm really not sure how big. I know that Donna employed a number of nurses and LPNs that would go out to houses. I'm not sure how many people, but I think it was. You know, it might have been small in terms of the number of people, but it was probably pretty decent sized in terms of finances because it was a Medicare medicaid shop and they did a lot of work in like billing Medicare Medicaid for the services they offered, so there must have been a fair amount of money pouring in. At one point, at least in May nineteen ninety eight, Donna came to Michigan to help George pack together. They loaded his belongings into a U haul. By this point, things at the house in Lake Orion had become tense and painful. George still hadn't admitted to the affair, but the truth was obvious, at least to Emily and Andrew. Gail perhaps was still clinging to denial, but Emily fought with her father more often, and Andrew withdrew into himself. Gail grew increasingly despondent as George prepared to leave. Gail and Emily broke down in tears, begging him not to go, but George was unmoved. He told them it wasn't permanent, just a temporary move to get his new business started. Some time apart, he said, might even help his relationship with Gail. He insisted it wasn't the end. George was trying to have it both ways.

27:54 This is a constant pattern with George. Like he tells Donna one thing that he loves her and he wants to be with her. Then he tells Gail that, oh, I have to go to Florida. I have to live there to get my business started. But it's not the end. Don't worry. It just seems like he was either completely indecisive or just wanted to have it both ways. He was maing them, yeh yes, pretty much. In Florida, he moved in with Donna, but he didn't tell his family that. Instead, he claimed that the apartment he was renting didn't have a phone. If they needed to reach him, they'd have to call the HHCs office during business hours. He continued returning to Michigan regularly, but those visits became less frequent as the summer wore on. Meanwhile, he and Donna were traveling together to business conferences, weekend getaways, mini vacations that felt more like honeymoons. But the more time George spent with Donna, the more cracks he began to see. He noticed how she treated people, weight staff, cashiers, hotel employees. Anyone in a job that she considered beneath her was subject to condescension and scorn. There was a coldness in her, a sense of entitlement that George hadn't seen it first, and once he saw it, he couldn't unsee it.

29:04 If you're ever at dinner with a friend and you see them treat the white staff poorly, it just really tells you everything you need to know about that person. Yeah, it really such a low tolerance for that, oh, totally kind of behavior. As summer turned to fall, George began to lean back toward the life that he had left behind. He returned to Michigan in September to celebrate Gayle's birthday, a visit that enraged Donna. While he was gone, she filled her journal with bitter invectives against Gail, painting her as manipulative and selfish. Still, on Halloween, George was back in Florida, celebrating his one year anniversary with Donna at a resort. Then came Thanksgiving, and George was back in Lake Orion, carving the turkey with his wife and children.

29:45 Oh boy, George. The tug of war continued. He returned to Florida in early December, then flew back to Michigan for the holidays. Donna was livid. She called during Christmas and claimed that there was an emergency at the company, something only George could fix. Caught a flight back the next day, only to discover there was no emergency, just Donna needing control. In private, George confessed that he was torn. He told Donna he loved her and wanted a future with her, but he couldn't bring himself to fully walk away. He worried about his kids hating him. He feared that divorcing Gail might push her over the edge. Her depression had worsened, she had stopped eating, cried constantly, and had made vague, frightening references to suicide. But Gail kept most of her pain to herself, burying it deep where it only festered.

30:34 Donna saw all of this as emotional manipulation. In her journal, she accused Gail of blackmail, writing that it was quote the worst kind of crime, even worse than murder. She blamed Gail entirely for standing in the way of her happiness with George. It's easy for us as we tell these stories because we have perspective. But Donna was never going to be happy with George. He was too wishy washy for her, don't you think? Yeah, I do think that. I think Donna wasn't going to be happy with anything Sue. It was more likely that she wanted to win than be with him. Yes, I think it's a good observation for reasons that are baffling and I will never understand. Donna decided to write a letter to George's seventeen year old son Andrew.

31:18 In it, she painted herself and George as victims. She wrote that no one in the family truly understood the suffering that George had endured over the years after the children were born. She claimed Gail had stopped being a wife and was only a mother. Donna insisted that she and George shared a deep, passionate love. She encouraged Andrew to support his father and talk to his mother. She said that Gail needed professional help and should stop blackmailing George into staying. It's unclear what Andrew did with this letter, but shortly after Gail showed up at the library in tears, the damn had finally broken. She confided in a coworker that she had just found out the truth. George was having an affair with his boss in Florida, and now it like divorce was inevitable. I think she must have suspected it for a long time, but then this letter that Andrew got. I'm sure he showed it to her and that.

32:09 Was verified her worst fears. Yeah, why would she write a letter to a seventeen year old. Is one of the many baffling things that Donna Trapani did. I mean, poor Andrew probably had no idea what to do with that information. No, I know, it's a horrible position to put him in. Yeah, for sure. Through the winter of nineteen ninety nine, George began showing signs that he might want to work things out with Gail. He was spending more time at home, and there were moments, small ones, but noticeable, when it seemed like he was trying to repair what had been broken. But at the same time, he was still talking to Donna, still telling her there was hope that maybe somehow things between them could still work out. He was playing both sides, and Donna could feel it. Sensing George slipping away, she ramped up her efforts to hold on. She began calling George's house more frequently, sometimes just to talk, other times to harass when the kids bore the brunt of it. The calls were persistent, unwelcome, and unsettling. Around this time, Gale confided in her friend. She said George was trying to end things with Donna, but that Donna wasn't letting go.

33:13 She described Donna as obsessed, and in many ways she was. Even though the romantic relationship was crumbling, George and Donna still had a business tie, which kept the door cracked open and the tension alive. Meanwhile, Donna's professional life was falling apart. Her mismanagement of h h c S had finally caught up to her. The business, once full of promise, was bleeding money. By early nineteen ninety nine, it was clear the company was going under. It was no longer a question of if only. When on March twenty third, George submitted his resignation. His official last day would be April sixteenth, but he agreed to continue helping remotely from Michigan for a limited time. Even then, he tried to cushion the blow. He told Donna the relationship wasn't over, not completely, but his actions said otherwise, and Donna could feel the shift. She was losing him personally, professionally completely, and she was starting to get desperate. So Gail was willing to welcome George back with open arms.

34:15 She was we'll see over and over again in the story. Gail was willing to forgive and forget whatever George did, right or wrong. She just wanted her marriage to work out. It sounds like they really loved their family, and they had good kids, and they enjoyed their time together. Yeah, for sure. On the surface, Donna appeared to take George's return to Michigan and his renewed focus on his family. In stride, she acted calm, mature, even supportive, but beneath the surface, she was seething and plotting. In April, she sent Georgia a letter that changed everything. She claimed she was pregnant, not only that, she was also dying of cancer. Oh, a double whammy, like Donna pick one.

34:57 And just to prove how serious it was, a letter supposedly signed by her doctor. It looked official. It was meant to Donna is forty five, correct, and a forty five year old woman can get pregnant, for sure, but without medical intervention, it's unlikely you have a one to five percent chance of having a natural pregnancy at that age. It's just statistically unlikely. Right. Well, that's a good point. And the other thing I was thinking about with this too, is she supposedly is dying of cancer as well. I don't know what kind of cancer she supposedly had, but I would think carrying a baby when you have cancer there's probably a lot of risks involved with that as well. Right. A lot of women do choose to do that, though.

35:38 I just read a story the other day of a woman that had sacrificed her own life. Yeah, for her baby. Donna knew exactly which emotional buttons to press. For all of George's flaws, his deceit, his infidelity, his arrogance, he still considered himself a moral man, and if Donna was carrying his child, if she was truly dying, he couldn't just walk away. He needed time to think. A business trip to New Mexico, unrelated to Donna's company, seemed like the perfect opportunity to clear his mind. So he put in his notice at Donna's company. But did he secure another job yet? Well, I think he had his own company. I don't know exactly what he was doing, but he may have been doing consulting. Oh, so he still had that company, I think so. Yeah.

36:19 While George was in New Mexico, Donna had other plans for him. She showed up at his hotel, uninvited, unannounced. George didn't send her away. He later said he wanted to, but that he was afraid she'd cause a scene, and besides, he admitted quote, I was weak for her. Oh. They spent the trip together. They slept together, and in Donna's mind, that meant the relationship was back on. For George, it wasn't so simple. He was tangled in guilt, confusion, and a twisted sense of responsibility. In June, he wrote Donna a letter equal parts apology and confession. He admitted he had sent mixed signals, but he said he also still loved her. He said he was touched by the idea of her care ring his child a product of our love, as he put it, He promised to be there for her, to spend her final days by her side. He closed the letter with the words, I will love you forever.

37:10 My Donna. Oh isn't that beautiful? Despite Donna's illness, was she planning to carry the baby to term? Yes? I mean that was her plan, you know, for George, was that she would carry this baby and then she was going to die soon after the baby was born, and George would be there to take care of the baby. Okay, we'll be back. After a break. Heading into the summer of nineteen ninety nine, Emily had just graduated high school and was preparing for college. But instead of enjoying her final teenage summer, she found herself helping care for her mother because Gail was falling apart again.

37:52 She had seen this before the crying, the weight loss, the migraines, the talk of suicide. Gail was convinced that George was slipping away from her once more, and the emotional toll was crushing. Andrew and Emily spent their summer trying to lift her spirits movies, dinners, shopping trips, anything to distract her. Gail appreciated the effort, but it only made her feel worse. You should be out with your friends, she told them, not your sad old mother. And then came what I like to refer to as the Fourth of July debacle. Buckle up, because this part of the story is crazy, okay. With Donna allegedly pregnant and supposedly dying of cancer, George hatched an unthinkable plan. He decided the best course of action was for Donna and Gail to meet face to face.

38:38 That sounds like a fabulous idea. I know what could go wrong. As long as you have like a camera crew there to record it. They needed to talk things through. George thought he was somehow convinced that if the two women sat down together, they could work out a way for Donna to carry the baby to term. And then, after Donna died, George and Gail would raise the child together. Donna flew to Mind and checked into a room at the Concord Inn in Rochester Hills. Oh my god, I know exactly where that is. I too too. Gail didn't want to go, but George insisted. While waiting for them to arrive, Donna prepared writing out notes on hotel stationery to organize her pitch. Her plan was to convince Gail to let George come back to Florida to stay with her until she gave birth and then died. Then he could return to Michigan with the baby and resume life with his wife. Simple.

39:28 Up to this point, has George seen an ultrasound? Has he felt the baby move? Is she you know, showing a little pregnancy belly? I think you don't answered all those things, don't you? No, No, and no, And I don't think he even really questioned it that much up until this point, which is just I just don't understand how someone could be that clueless, Like, just knowing what you the little bit that you know about Donna Trapani so far, you would be on high alert that she was maybe lying about these things. But George was just completely okay. Donna's notes included a few key talking points. She blamed Gail for holding George back, for turning the kids against him, for nagging him about everything, and in Donna's twisted fantasy, she and Gail would become friends.

40:15 Donna would even help Gail get treatment for her depression. She knew people, after all, George. When George and Gail arrived and knocked on the motel room door, Donna asked to speak to George alone. Gail, already on the verge of tears, refused no, She said, you will not be alone with my husband George. Ever, the optimist suggested the three of them go out for lunch just around the corner at the Olive Garden. And what can't be solved at the Olive Garden over endless soup, salad and breadsticks. Absolutely, it is hard for me to imagine a more awkward meal. After lunch, they returned to the motel. This time, Donna asked if she could speak to Gail woman to woman.

40:56 George waited in the motel lobby. We don't know exactly what was said inside the room. All we have is Donna's account, and she's not exactly a reliable narrator. According to her, she rubbed her belly and told Gail, quote, this is your husband's love child. I love George, Gail, Why won't you just let this man go? Donna claimed that Gail snapped back, I hope you lose your baby, which seems unlikely. Gail was a devout Catholic and by all accounts, a very kind hearted woman. A comment like that would have been very out of character, Donna said. She then shouted, quote, you've had George for twenty five years, bitch, Now it's my turn. You got that. After I'm dead, you can have him back. What we do know is this.

41:38 About ten minutes later, Gail burst out of the room in tears, with Donna chasing after her and grabbing at her blouse. Gail found George in the lobby and told him she wanted to go home, but Donna wasn't finished. She begged George to stay and talk. He asked Gail to wait just five minutes, he promised. Five minutes turned into an hour. Eventually, Gail left the motor but she didn't have a car. She found a payphone and called Emily, sobbing, Emily could barely understand her Gail told her that George had abandoned her at the motel, was going to leave the family, and that Donna was pregnant. Gaile believed that George had brought her to the motel just to humiliate her. She said she was going to walk home ten miles away, and she did start walking, but a short while later, two cars pulled up behind Gail on the road. One was George, the other was Donna in her rental car.

42:29 George convinced Gail to get in with him, but insisted they followed Donna back to the motel to make sure that she got there okay. Halfway there, Donna's car suddenly drifted off the road and came to a stop. George jumped out to check on her. Donna was slumped over in the driver's seat, seemingly disoriented. She told him she must have passed out. They got her back to the motel, and then George drove Gail home to Lake Orion, but he didn't stay. He packed an overnight bag and told Gail he was going back to stay with Donna. Hacked George. I know, I just don't. I just don't get it. And the thing that is interesting to me and this is that Donna like she did really always know what button to push to get George to do what she wanted.

43:15 It does something she really did know that he was. He was easy to manipulate. Yes, for sure. Before George got the chance to leave and go back to the motel, Emily arrived home with a friend. She found her mother sobbing and her father sitting silently on the couch. Gail told her, quote, your father is leaving to take care of Donna because she has no one else. Emily looked at them, stunned. What are you talking about. She's pregnant, Emily, with your father's child, and she's dying. She'll be dead in a few months. Don't you think Emily was like, mom, this was on Days of our Lives. It was a storyline. Oh absolutely, I think Emily was all over. She knew exactly what Donna was all about, and she. Knew it does sound like Emily knew what was up.

43:56 Yes, George, trying to defend himself, said quote, look, I cannot have Donna commit suicide and have that on my hands. I won't let that happen. But at the same time, like Gail had talked of suicide as well, but George didn't really seem to care that much about Gail making those kind of threats. Emily wasn't having it. She left to drive her friend home, but really she went to confront Donna herself. She had another reason too, Emily she was very sensitive and she believed that she could read people's auras, and if she saw Donna in person, she thought she would be able to tell whether or not she was actually pregnant. Or they could have said, hey, Donna, take this pregnancy test. I mean, Donna faxed a letter from her doctor, so isn't that enough for you. Emily and her friend drove to the concord in. Her friend waited outside. If Emily screamed, she would come running. To Emily's surprise, Donna welcomed her in.

44:49 She was thrilled to see her, acting as if this were the beginning of a beautiful friendship. She even tried to hug Emily. Emily recoiled. Inside the room, Emily saw something sar Donna had created a shrine to George, a table covered in candles, cards, letters, and photos he had sent her. Emily froze the whole thing. Oh weird. It was very weird. The whole thing was surreal. All Emily could think was, this is who my father is having an affair with. Donna launched into a rant quote, your mother has had your father long enough. It's my turn now. You and your brother and mother never appreciated him. But I know him better than any of you ever could. He loves me more than he loves any of you.

45:31 Read the cards, look at the letters. He doesn't love you, Emily, he loves me. Oh, Donna, you're gross. Emily finally spoke, quote, you can't keep doing this. We want a family. It can't go on like this back and forth. Can you please just stay out of our lives. Donna replied, quote, don't worry. I'll be dead soon. You can have your father back after I'm gone. Emily didn't stay long after that. The whole encounter was too bizarre, too disturbing, and no, she didn't get a clear read on Donna's aura. George did stay with Donna that night, but the next morning he returned home and told Gail it was over. He said he was done with Donna for good. This time. He would support the baby financially, but that was it. I'm afraid that's where we are going to have to leave it for part one.

46:20 Great, thanks, thanks so much. What's stopping me from reading ahead? I have the whole script right here. I might take access back from you. I bet I know your Pasco. What do you think about George so far? I mean, he's not a very good man the last case I did, I already mentioned Mark Girardo, But it does sound like he's like Mark Girardo, where he wants his cake and he wants to eat it too. Yeah, it does seem that way. Why do you think men do that? I don't know. It Just to me, George seems like very weak, Like it's it seems less about like him wanting to have both Gail and Donna and more like he just was too weak to make a commitment either way, Like he just kept going back and forth and couldn't he didn't want to reject anybody, but at the same time he made both of them feel terrible.

47:11 You know, I don't think you're the kind of guy that would have an affair, But if you did, I think that you would there would be things that you would miss about our relationship because we've been together for so long, and I think that I offer you look in your faith. Maybe I don't. I'm just where you're going with this there, but go ahead. Just that I think that there's, you know, a comfort even if you are in love with someone else, there's a comfort with the spouse that you've been with for twenty five plus years. Sure, and there's you know, just the predictable nature and just comfort. And am I flattering myself or. No, No, not at all. I think that. I think that's true in a lot of relationships, Like if you've been with someone for a long time, there is a level of comfort there. But then at the same time, I think a lot of men stray because they also want some spark and something new, you know, something different, And I think George, maybe you know, he'd like both of those things. Maybe Gail, as we've talked about, was very much a traditional wife. She wanted to support her man, stand behind him no matter what. She was ready to kind of forgive him and forget anything that he did wrong.

48:15 Looking back, like, I know we haven't finished the case yet, but what do you think Gail could have done differently to maybe change the dynamic. I've had talks with friends about this, or if we know that someone else is having affair. A lot of people will say, oh, I could never forgive an affair, or you know, I'd kick him out so fast, you know, blah blah blah. But until you're in that position, I don't think you really know how you would react, right, And if you don't have children, it might be a different dynamic too, because most of us are. We'd hate to tear apart our families. Yeah, and I think most people in today's world try to reconcile and try to work things out after having an affair. Yeah. And I'm sure from Gail's perspective too, she was probably really scared of being a like they had just made this move to a different place. She didn't know anyone.

49:03 Her kids were, you know, growing up almost to the point where they were out on their own, so she was probably very fearful of being alone. And George was playing both sides. He never said, you know, I really think that Donna is the one for me. I want to start my life with her and end things with you, because he was giving her false hope that they had a future together. Yeah, he was just so wishy washy. One more thing, I just want to give a shout out to women aged forty five to fifty five because we go through a lot and so many of these cases involve women in that age, and I think men start realizing that they have it might be their last chance to leave and start a new life. And I think it just happens a lot.

49:47 Doesn't it. It does seem to Yeah. Can you explain why. I can't explain why because I don't understand it, but it does seem to happen a lot. That that is sort of the age range when men may tend to stray. Tell me if I'm flattering myself, but I I feel like marriage kind of gets good. Then your kids are older and you have more freedom and you could just spend more time together and you don't have to worry so much. If you're lucky to your finances are a little more secure, right, you might have time for, you know, more getaways. And I still think you have a lot of life to look forward to. Yeah, I absolutely think that. And I think that it really depends on your mindset. We've talked about this before, but I think your mindset in a marriage, like you have to realize things are going to change over the years, right, your kids are going to get older, they're going to move out, they're going to go onto their own lives.

50:32 And if you're not prepared to like for your lives to adapt and the way that you relate to each other to adapt, then you might be in for trouble. But I think if you're open and you know that, hey, things are going to change over the years. I'm going to change, You're going to change, situations are going to change, then I think it does get better. My last question for you is about the Olive Garden. What is your favorite thing to get at the Olive Garden? Well, how would I know? You never take me to nice places? Oh, that is not true at all. We haven't been to the Olive Garden for a long time. We haven't, but we're older, and the Olive Garden used to be like a really nice place to go. It was like when you wanted to go somewhere a little bit of a step up. Because they had so many first dates at the Olive Garden.

51:14 It was just kind of where you would go. Yeah, but I think I like the Tour of Italy. The Tour of Italy. They still have that. I have no idea. It's like twenty thousand calories. But I think I really like fetich. There's some foods that we just don't really eat at our house. No one likes feta chini eel fredo, but me and no one really liked lazan. You like lazagna, but I don't really make it at home because the kids don't really like it. So I like to take it chiel fredo. You. I'm surprised we don't eat there more often, because you actually really love it. I really love their minnestroni soup. I love the soup, salad and breadsticks. I don't know why it's such a good It's such a good meal, and it's like all you can eat and go.

51:56 Fund me so fun to me, to said Rich and Tea Tina's big night out. That sounds good because this case took place in Lake Orion, which, as I mentioned earlier, my grandma lived in Lake Orion. I used to go to her house every Sunday. I was thinking a lot about those days growing up in my grandma. So my grandma, she and my grandpa lived in They lived in an old house in Rochester, Michigan, and then my grandpa passed away, and I think my grandma must have had good life insurance or something, because she proceeded to build her dream house in Lake Orion.

52:37 And I don't think you you never went there. I don't think you met her once, right, but I don't think you went to her house. Yeah, No, I think I did, Okay. Yeah, because it was she had this house built and it was up on a big hill, on this huge piece of property, and it was the craziest house. It had like a spiral staircase up from the basement to the main floor, and she had like beads instead of doors over a lot of the doorways. Like she was kind of like she was pretty hip as a grandma, I think, and she had it decorated with a whole bunch of like Japanese art everywhere. She was kind of a character. But she was my mom's mom, and my mom had like six or seven brothers and sisters. It was a pretty big family, and they all had kids who were a similar age to me. So we would go there every Sunday and we would like I would just hang out with my cousins explore the property, and it was like it was really a magical place for me.

53:29 Like when I look back on it. It had this special meaning for me. And at one point of going to my grandma's my aunt who was much younger than my mom, she had a pet skunk, which was really cool. And my uncle he had like more records than you would find in a record store. He was in a band, and so I just loved going there. Every Sunday. I was looking on Google Maps to see if the house was still there, but I think I think someone tore it down and rebuilt it. It was a really unique house, but I don't think it was super high quality, well built, and it was very like seventies ish, like, it had a very seventies kind of vibe to it. Was You was that the grandma that was a mail carrier? She was, and my grandpa was as well. Yeah, and your dad was My dad was as well. Yeah.

54:09 Crazy. I have found myself feeling a little nostalgic lately. Yeah, and it not even for like times when I was a kid, but times when you could go to like Bedmath and Beyond or Toys r Us. Yeah, when they were actually stores. The actually there's so acute stores. Now. I need a new pillow I've been. I don't want to talk about this too much. But you used to be able to go to bed, Bath and Beyond and there were three hundred pillows to choose from. And now you really can just go to a couple of stores, and you know, it's expensive to have things shipped to your house and then if you have to exactly, so, I don't know, I just kind of miss that. It is. Really it's weird out there now, Like are the mall that is near us is like kind of a ghost town.

54:54 It's just it's sort of sad. It's really sad. I had such fond memories of going to the mall as a ca and you would always need to walk into the mall and you would instantly smell the burnt caramel corn from the caramel corn store. And yeah, you. Know, there was like a steakhouse and the mall and there was just like just a lot more to do. You know, there's the bookstore and a toy store, and now it's just a couple of dilapidated stores. Arm mall is getting some sort of major upgrade though. There's maybe apartments and I think more food. Options, yeah, which will be interesting to see. Interesting. I think I just read a couple of weeks ago the mall near where I grew up that I went to in high school, Like all the time, I think it's gone. I think they tore it down. So yeah, wow, Well I feel bad for teenagers today, or not just teenagers, but younger people do. It's like, where do you go? Like my friends and I would just go to like Toys r us and walk around and be dumb, or you could are the record store any of the other.

55:46 We sound like the roller rink. Well I think there's still roller rings, but there's not many. The drive in theater. Now we sound like we're two hundred years old, and we're really only like one hundred and forty years old. Once exactly. But before we go, I wanted to give a huge shout out and thank you to our friend Allison, who has been a very kind and loyal listener. She sent I was talking about her. I think I was talking about Clover and how she kept waking me up, and Alison sent us this really nice, heated kind of pad and our cats are fighting over it. They really love it, and that was so sweet. So thank you, Allison, You're just the best. Yeah, thank you so much. And a little update. I'm not sure what happened, but Clover is no longer interested in hanging out with us at night. Lately, she's been I don't know where she's sleeping.

56:32 You think it's the heating pad. Does she like well, even before the heating pad, I mean she I did put the heating pad in the hallway. Yeah, and yeah, they kind of like it over there. But even before that came, she'd kind of been. She is very fickle. You just never know. She can be hot and cold. One day she loves you, the next day she wants nothing to do with you. Well, thank you to all the listeners that gave us recommendations of what to do with the cats at night. A lot of people said, we'll just put them in the basement, and that's just. That's just an invitation for the cats to destroy them. Yeah. I think our cats are just a little more feral and they have their claws, so, I mean, Cosmo has has destroyed a fair bit of carpeting in our eyes. They don't like to be locked out of a room. If they are, they will destroy the carpeting under the door trying to get through it. And thank you also to everyone who is leaving comments on Spotify especially, we love reading the comments and reading your feedback about cases.

57:22 And unfortunately you can't do that on Apple. You have to leave a whole review and I mean those. Those are great too, but we can't respond. To them, right and you can. You are in charge of the Spotify. I would I do a lot of the social media, but you are in charge of the Spotify, so if but I usually kind of like or laugh or love or with the comments. And I try to respond, but sometimes I get really busy and I don't respond. So I apologize for that. But we do read every comment and we really appreciate it. Thank you again to Julia and Sam for our Bucky snacks. That was really fun. Yeah, that was Someday we will get there. We will do. You know what I'm gonna do right now? What are you going to do? I'm going to go to patreon dot com slash love Mary Kill or I'm already a subscriber so I can listen to part two of this episode, so I can't wait to see how it ends. Good thinking, And if you want to support the podcast, please go to patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. For five dollars a month, you get early add free access, and a monthly bonus episode that is exclusive to Patreon. I don't want to brag, but our Patreon is actually a really good deal. A lot of other podcasts will charge you, you know, for each extra thing you get, you have to pay extra.

58:29 We only have one here that's five dollars a month, So please consider supporting us on Patreon. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe. Find us on social media and now YouTube, or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com. And if you want to send us a snack, send it to lmkpod p O box one one one Dexter, Michigan four eight one three zero. Until next time. Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

59:16 The Fat Compact