Laci and Scott Peterson - Part 3

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Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm
Rich. And if there's one thing we've

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learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that some days you'll feel like

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killing your wife, and some days
you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome

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to love, Mary kill Hey Rich, that was something little, Hi,

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Tina. Hey, it's still December
seventeen, and we're maybe a little slap

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happy. Maybe well, maybe we
are sequestered. Like I said last time,

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we are not leaving this room until
we finished. You took a twenty

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minute break, though I did.
Yeah, we both, even me.

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Jurors who are sequestered get to take
little breaks now and then. Yeah,

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yeah, but we're gonna, yeah, I'm going to finish this darn case

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of three part. I think we
swore early on we would never do more

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than a part. Now I don't
think we ever said that we did we

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did. Could you give me the
day and time because I do not really

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well. November seventeenth, twenty twenty
two, we were not podcasting twenty now.

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We were actually we were okay,
all right, Oh I feel a

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little woozy. Yeah I know,
but we are here and we're going to

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like you said, We're going to
finish this off, and what a ride.

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I hope you guys aren't bored by
this. It really is a very

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interesting case. I mean, there's
so much to it is. I think

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you know a lot of things.
You think you know that, like I

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thought I knew it, but you
know, once, I really do enjoy

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when we can do a deep dive, and really I feel like we kind

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of went knee deep. We didn't
go super deep. We went pretty deep

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though. I think we did a
good job. But we've read quite a

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few books on this, Thank you. I think you read a couple more

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than I did. I think you're
going to talk about it, but you

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actually read the jury book too,
right, I did. I read part

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of the jury book. I read
part of the book. I can't remember

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the name of it, but it
was by a deadly game the defense attorney.

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Oh oh, it was basically the
case you know for Scott Peterson's innocence,

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and then a deadly game by Captain
Fryar read the sister, and then

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the one by his sister, and
how do you do it? And you

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have a full time job. I
did not read all of those books start

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to finish. I picked, you
know, I started a number Fry's book,

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and I didn't get very far.
And I wanted to read Lacey's mom's

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book, but I didn't end up
doing that. Yeah, so much information.

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It's a lot, and our library
did not have a lot of these

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books, so that was kind of
problematic. But anyway, we're here and

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happy New Year, Happy New Year, New Year, Happy New Year,

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twenty twenty four. Yeah, I
like an even year, twenty twenty four

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is good. I don't like god
numbers as much as even numbers. Is

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that weird? Yeah, it's I
don't think it's weird, but I think

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it's weird that you have that feeling. Like if I had that feeling,

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I'd be like, yeah, that's
just that's me. But the fact that

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you like even years better than odd
years, You're gonna have to break that

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down for me. Why because I've
a number? Because I don't like numbers.

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I just feel like I am I
have more of those kind of weird

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like neurosis. Where what are your
other neuroses? I don't know, I

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can't, but you have to eat
breakfast at eight am or you yeah,

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ie things like that, Like I'm
very I don't know. It's interesting because

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you know, as old as we
are, we're still learning things about ourselves

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and each other. Yeah, what
are your resolutes? We have to talk

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about resolutions, you know, we're
you know, like I said, it's

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December seventeenth. Yeah, but I
could just go copy what I said last

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year. I'm just gonna keep being
awesome, is what you're gonna say.

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Yes, you're you're pretty great.
You're a great partner in crime and s

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I said, partner in crime and
a partner in my path a lot.

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That's very nice. I'm gonna be
nicer to you. How about that?

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All right, you're pretty nice to
you? Ready, you know I will

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acknowledge that I could. There's always
room to be a little nicer. Pretty.

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I am very nice. But if
I get a little stressed and you

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know, anxious or whatever, you
know, you're probably the I don't lash

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and I don't even lash out.
I just get a little quiet. And

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I think I get quiet when I
and I get a little grumpy. I'm

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usually somewhat verbose. And yeah,
anyway, well yeah, so what do

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you think? Just the same old, same old, gonna exercise more.

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This is going to be really need
to I really need to get in shape.

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I've like I've gotten close to being
in shape and then I backslide.

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It happens all the time. I
mean, I think that's just our way

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as humans. But I don't want
that to be the way anymore. I

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have definitely I've made the connection between
my mental health and exercising, and I've

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I've been doing a pretty good job. I'm not flawless, but it's really

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important to take the time for yourself
and unplug. Yeah, I think that's

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going to be one of like,
like I said, we still have a

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couple of weeks to think about it. I think I'm going to try to

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unplug more. And I have been
kind of doing that a little more with

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Sorry, I love Mary Kill like
social media. I've just been kind of

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just so busy. I haven't had
as time for that. So I am

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gonna, you know, not unplug
completely, but you take a little more

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time to you know, be in
nature and read. That's today. We

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went for a walk in the park
and you didn't even bring your phone with

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you. That was a stake.
We laughed about that a lot because we

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kept think because our kids, we
didn't tell our kids we were going,

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and my phone was left. I
don't know where it was, and of

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course I don't leave home without it. We just kept saying that our kids

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are going to think that you took
me and murdered me, and but that's

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really not fun. Ever, you
wouldn't you would, That's how it always,

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I mean, everyone thought Scott Peterson
was a good guy too. And

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look where we're at, three parts? And oh I did bring a snack.

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Yes, we should have the same
because the part three this was unplanned.

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So I really just did do a
pantry dive and I was just going

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to bring you like a piece of
moldy bread, but I found something in

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our pantry, not a piece of
bread. Now it's not a piece of

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moldy bread. And I can't eat
another bite of sugar today. I don't

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know if I can't either, really
saying something that really you don't have to

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eat it if you don't want to. But no, oh, that these

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are the peanut What are the animals? Ye? Reces dipped animal crackers,

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bite sized animal crackers covered in peanut
butter, candy and dipped in milk chocolate.

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Cool. Well, you know I
love anything Reese related. You sure

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do. Most people do. They
call them animal crackers and not animal cookies,

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because they're really more like cookies than
crackers. And why do you call

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them muff and a muffin and not
a cupcake? There are two different things,

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but these are more These are closer
to cookies than crackers. You have

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to admit that. Oh yeah,
and I got them at Costco. I've

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only seen them at Costco. But
when you go to Costco, you wouldn't

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know which hates Costco. I didn't
hate Costco, but you'd rather you would

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rather not go to You'd rather probably
get a tooth filled than go to Costco.

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No, no, okay, but
close close. I've only seen them

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there, but it's almost like every
literally every person walking out of the story

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had a bag of these. So
I was like, I guess I better

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try them. And they're well,
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give it

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away. We're going to take a
quick break, be right back. Well,

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there was nothing not to like about
that. Yeah, you eight one.

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I have had pay too much sugar
today. They didn't, but yeah,

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I'm I'm good with the sugar.
I did give you a little shmear

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of nutella. It was pretty good. Is it good? Yeah? Check

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them out Reese's dipped animal crackers.
Are you ready to do this thing?

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I'm ready to wrap it up?
Yeah, right, all right, get

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Scott forever? I know, Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Yeah.

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I don't think he's going to be
out of our minds forever, but

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hopefully for the near future. So
if you haven't listened to parts one and

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two, you should definitely do that. We're not going to do a long

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recap, but where we are right
now, and the story is Lacey disappeared

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on December twenty fourth of two thousand
and two. There's been tons of searches.

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Amber Fry came forward with her story
about her relationship with Scott the press

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conference there, Lacey's family then turned
against Scott. They were kind of behind

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him, supporting him. I wanted
to mention I think I forgot too.

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The last episodes, Scott referred to
Lacey's parents as mom and dad, and

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even after Lacey's disappearance, he would
still call Sharon and be like, Mom,

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Hi, Mom, and I just
always felt a little creepy to me.

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Yeah, I can see that.
Well. Another thing I wanted to

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share too, just a short little
anecdote before I forget the book that Scott's

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sister, Anne Bird wrote. She
had a lot of different stories in there

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about Scott's behavior. It just things
that he did that just seemed off,

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and she by the way, she
was behind him at first, yeah,

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and then over time she became convince
that he was guilty of Lacey's murder,

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which was very The rest of Scott's
family was very upset with her about this.

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It really kind of severed ties with
the family. But one story that

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I thought was just just another example
of Scott just being souper and such a

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womanizer. Anne had a babysitter who
was twenty two years old, a young

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attractive woman, and she came over. Scott just turned into a different person,

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like he just started He didn't give
her roses, but he'd just he

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started flirting with her. And then
another time she was over, he was

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like, Oh, we're gonna hang
out, We're gonna make flirteenis, and

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he made this mixed drink and she
got supernk. She had a boyfriend first

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of all, and she got super
uncomfortable and she ended up having to leave.

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It was just such a creepy thing. And apparently Scott told his mom

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about her too, because Anne wrote
in her book that there was a couple

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of times that Scott's mom, Jackie, would be talking to her on the

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phone and saying, well, I
wish Scott could meet someone like your babysitter

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like that. She just seems perfect
for him, and just just the whole

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thing just creeps me out. Yeah, that's very ikey. Yeah, yeah,

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creepy guy. Where we're going to
pick up now is in April of

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two thousand and three, so about
what four months after Lacey disappeared. Yeah,

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so Scott this whole time, like
he I don't think he went back

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to Modesto. I think, like
you said, he stayed with Anne for

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a while and his family a lot
of them were in the San Diego area.

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Yeah, and he stayed in San
Diego a lot, so he was

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just kind of I don't know who
was golfing he was. Yeah, I

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don't think he was working that whole
time. Yeah, And Anne and her

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family had a they had like a
cottage somewhere like up north that he would

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stay there sometimes. And he actually
stayed with Anne's adoptive parents at their house

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a couple of times because she gave
him the key, which was down near

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San Diego also oh yeahow. But
on April thirteenth of two thousand and three,

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a couple was walking their dog along
the northern shore of the San Francisco

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Bay when their dogs started frantically sniffing
at something, and it was the body

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of a baby, which we would
soon learn was Connor. The location was

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about three and a half miles northwest
of the Berkeley Marina and not quite a

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mile from Brooks Island, which is
where Scott said that he was fishing on

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Christmas Eve. I'm not going to
go into much detail on the condition of

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Connor's body. I know you're going
to talk a little bit about the autopsy

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in a minute. But there was
a piece of what turned out to be

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like a fiberglass type tape that seemed
to be looped and either tied or tangled

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around his neck. I've heard this
described as, and I am going to

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talk about it a little bit,
tape, but also twine. Yeah.

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I've heard it described in multiple ways, and I've seen pictures of it.

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To me, it looks like it
almost looks like a like plastic like if

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you had like shrink wrap that was
you know, twisted up into a twine

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like type of thing. But yeah, I've seen it described multiple ways.

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I'm not sure exactly it's attle concusing. The next day, Lacey's body was

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found by someone taking a walk near
Point Isabelle, which is a little over

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a mile southeast of where Connor's body
had washed up and a mile and a

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half east of Brooks Island. Again
not going into too much detail on the

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condition of her body, but I'll
just say it was badly decomposed when compared

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to Connor's. I am going to
elaborate on this, so do you want

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me to just take over? Sure? So, Lazy and Connor had been

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missing for one hundred and sixteen days
when they were found, so that was,

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you know, four months yep.
Doctor Brian Peterson no relations, was

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the medical examiner who performed Connor's autopsy. Like you said, there was one

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and a half loops of clear packing
tape were found around Connor's neck with a

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knot described as a knot near his
left shoulder. The tape was not thought

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to be any type of ligature because
there was like like a gap between his

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neck and the tape. Some people
originally thought that he must have been born

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and someone like put a bag over
his head and taped the bag to suffocate

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him. There was also tape on
his this is very confusing to me,

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tape on his left ear that pinned
the ear down and like when they took

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some people thought it originally could be
kelp, but it had more of a

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tape like consistency. But when it
was removed, his ear like stayed in

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place, like stayed folded down.
His body had began to decompose what it

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was described in relatively good condition.
And this is very graphic, but it

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was said to be like almost like
a jelly like consistency because he'd been in

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the water for so long. There
was a significant cut on Connor's torso possibly

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and afflicted after his death, from
his chest to his right shoulder. You

204
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said he weighed three and a half
pounds. My source said it was two

205
00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:07.320
and a half pounds. I'm not
sure, you know, in that range.

206
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And he was nineteen inches long,
so he was, you know,

207
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getting close to full term. There
was no vernux on the body. Vernix

208
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is that do you know what that
is? It's kind of the waxy substance

209
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.759
that covers a newborn, like you
know, as soon as the baby is

210
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.039
born, and they kind of rubbed
the baby to get the vernux off,

211
00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:31.639
So the vernux was not on his
body, which some people would say points

212
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:37.799
to him being born, but it
probably is that the vernux just hadn't formed

213
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:43.279
yet. Yeah, his skin was
soft. A portion of the umbilical cord

214
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:46.799
remained, but it was only about
a quarter of an inch. It appeared

215
00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.519
not to have been cut, but
like it disintegrated, it fell apart.

216
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:56.679
Connor's gestational age was guessed to be
full term, which confused me for a

217
00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:01.120
long time because I thought, like, full term is thirty seven to forty

218
00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.799
two weeks, okay, but I
think some people describe like thirty four weeks

219
00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:09.320
as full term, so it's kind
of a wide range. Yeah. I

220
00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:13.919
had found something that estimated the gestational
age as between thirty three and thirty eight

221
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:20.039
weeks, exactly the same here thirty
three weeks he was. I think Lacey

222
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:26.240
was thirty three weeks and one day
pregnant, And there was just some discrepancies,

223
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:30.480
Like I think you're going to get
to it in the child. Okay,

224
00:15:30.759 --> 00:15:33.639
I won't go any further than but
I kind of think it might have

225
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.840
been hard to determine because of the
length of time he was in the water

226
00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:43.159
and tissues expand and decompose when left
in the water, and the pathologist said

227
00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:48.960
that they could not roll out that
he had a live birth. It was

228
00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:54.200
estimated that Connor's time and the water
unprotected was more was not more than a

229
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.519
couple of days. Likely he had
still been in Lacey's womb, which protected

230
00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:03.799
him from the elements for the majority
of time that he was in the water.

231
00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.399
Yeah, and I think that's why
the condition of his body was pretty

232
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:14.159
different than Lacey's right, because he
had been protected in her womb more than

233
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.120
likely. Yeah, and that's what
I had believed that he was possibly had

234
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.639
been live birth, But after I
did my research, I was like,

235
00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:26.600
no, it sounds like he was
still in utero when she was thrown into

236
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:33.720
the bay, which is so devastating
but poignant. This is going to be

237
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:34.960
when I start tearing up. But
I think about Lacey and how much she

238
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.559
wanted to be a mother and the
fact that she was able to protect him.

239
00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:48.039
Yeah, and she did, so
it's just so sad. On Sunday,

240
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.240
April thirteenth, at four pm,
one mile away from Brooks Island,

241
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:56.799
that's when Lacey was found and this
is really hard. You guys might want

242
00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.720
to fast forward a couple of minutes
because I am going to talk about how

243
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.680
the state of her body a little
bit. Lacey was found in her head

244
00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:08.480
and her arms were missing. Her
left leg from the knee down was missing,

245
00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:14.680
as well as her right foot.
Her internal organs were also absent except

246
00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:21.559
for her uterus and cervix. And
Lacey's cervix and this again is another data

247
00:17:21.559 --> 00:17:25.559
point that I was not aware of. Lacey's cervix was intact and closed,

248
00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:33.640
meaning that Connor probably was not born. There was deterioration in Lacey's abdomen.

249
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.759
I cannot say that word, and
that's likely how Connor was expelled, not

250
00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:42.240
from Lacey's uterus, so he came
out through the abdominal wall. Yeah.

251
00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:48.240
Yeah. A marine life had taken
root in Lacey's body cavity, and there

252
00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.960
was there was no visible trauma to
Lacey's body. There was no evidence of

253
00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:57.839
stabbing or a gunshot. When Lacey
was found, she was wearing light tan

254
00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.240
maternity pan that were still buttoned and
zipped. She was not wearing the black

255
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:08.440
pants that numerous people had allegedly spotted
her in. So to me, that

256
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.720
was pretty important in fact. Yeah, yeah, the fact that her pants

257
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:19.119
were still buttoned and zipped is kind
of nuts to me that she was in

258
00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:22.559
the water for that long and her
pants were still there. And there was

259
00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:27.839
also some tape on Lacey's body.
Some people have said that the wound that

260
00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:33.480
Connor had across his chest could have
been caused by a boat propeller, but

261
00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.680
I at this point, I am
going to say that I'm pretty sure that

262
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.519
Connor was not born prior to being
dumped in the bay. What do you

263
00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:44.839
think? Yeah, I completely agree, and again we'll talk about it in

264
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.920
the trial as well, some of
the testimony about that. But I am

265
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:53.440
also completely convinced of that the discrepancy
on his gestational age kind had thrown me

266
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.119
yea for years, but I think
that was not as big of a discrepancy

267
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:03.960
as the fence team would lead you
to believe. Right, That's all I

268
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:06.440
have about the autopsy. But just
isn't that her? It's just her.

269
00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.880
It's just so devastating that this beautiful
woman who just wanted to be a mother

270
00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:15.400
was, you know, found.
It. It's so sad. It's it's

271
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.759
great that they were found. I
mean, can you imagine if they had

272
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.160
never been found. I think it
would have been a much harder road to

273
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:26.599
Scott would probably be a free man. Yeah, I think so. Well.

274
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.640
I mean some Lazy's other body parts
have not They've never been found,

275
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:37.839
and that's devastating. And again the
state of her body and her limbs being

276
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.440
you know, not with her body
led me to believe that there probably were

277
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:48.839
anchors used on her limbs. Lazy's
head was never found and her limbs were

278
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:56.079
never found, and that devastates me
that Sharon had to very partial remains of

279
00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.720
her daughter. Yeah, that's really
sad. It's really sad. The anchors

280
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:06.920
were never found. They really looked
hard. Yeah, it's thought that maybe

281
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.880
the anchor is disintegrated. Oh really, Yeah, because if you think,

282
00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.799
you know cement, and if they
were new, you know, it was

283
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.720
relatively new cement. Yep. I
wonder too, Like I know a lot

284
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.000
has been said about how did you
know, Oh, he wouldn't have been

285
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:22.519
able to get the boat that Lacey's
body out of the boat without capsizing.

286
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:26.839
And I don't know how heavy these
anchors were, but how could you guestimate

287
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.319
how heavy a bucket anchor would be? I mean at least depends on how

288
00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:33.759
big the bucket was, but like
at least maybe like twenty pounds or twenty

289
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.599
five pounds. I don't know,
I mean that would add I mean,

290
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:41.319
if Lacey was approximately one hundred and
fifty pounds, that that would add one

291
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:45.799
hundred pounds, right, So maybe
maybe that might be too heavy. Maybe

292
00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:51.480
Yeah, I'm not sure. So
to get Lacey's body into the water must

293
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:56.599
have been pretty challenging, and I'm
curious how the anchors would have been attached

294
00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.359
to her limbs. You had an
idea, well, I think the anchors

295
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.440
had like a piece of rebar sticking
out of them that you could tie a

296
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:06.799
rope to, or it's like just
a piece of metal like a metal rod

297
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:08.680
that you could bend or whatever.
So it had like a you know,

298
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.400
like you had concrete, but then
sticking out of it would be like a

299
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:17.400
little metal like a U piece that
you could loop a rope through or something

300
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:21.319
like that. Okay, okay,
So you agree that there were probably at

301
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:25.000
least three to four anchors that were
attached to her limbs. I think so.

302
00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:30.079
Yeah, something kind of I didn't
realize, like how vulnerable your head

303
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.880
is and your head is not as
securely attached to your body as you think

304
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:40.519
it is, okay, And I
there was a storm the night before I

305
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.039
think that Connor was found, and
I think the bay might be relatively like

306
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:49.480
the waters might be kind of calm. But the storm was a pretty significant

307
00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:53.039
storm, so I think it might
have stirred things up and maybe that's what

308
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:59.799
caused them to surface. Oh could
be yeah. After the news broke about

309
00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:03.839
the recovery of the bodies, police
began trying to determine where Scott was.

310
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.519
Like you mentioned earlier, he was
driving like different vehicles. He was staying

311
00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:11.279
in a bunch of different places,
so they didn't actually know exactly where he

312
00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.240
was. They had a GPS tracker
on his pickup truck, but he knew

313
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.519
about it. He swapped vehicles with
his brother John at one point. So

314
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:23.039
on April sixteenth, three days after
Connor's body was found, they located Scott

315
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:26.920
in San Diego through his cell phone. He was staying at the house that

316
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:34.599
belonged to his sister Anne Bird's adoptive
parents, so they immediately dispatched surveillance units

317
00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:37.799
to the location to keep an eye
on him. They saw him going for

318
00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:41.480
a walk and they noted that he
had a goatee and his hair was bleached,

319
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.920
which was quite a different look than
he had previously, but he still

320
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.759
had the same like gross bey d
eyes. Yes, he could not change

321
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.559
that. Well, I mean like
people say, oh, he looks so

322
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.920
much different, like, uh,
he didn't really, I mean I don't

323
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.440
know. Yeah, I think he
told people that he had just he had

324
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.880
swimming in a pool with chlorine and
that caused his hair to become bleached,

325
00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:06.480
which seems a little and everyone was
swimming in chlorine makes your beard grow too.

326
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.720
Yes. The police decided that they
would arrest Scott, but they wanted

327
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:14.559
to wait until the DNA analysis came
back to prove that the bodies that were

328
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:18.559
found belonged to Lacy Encounter, but
they wanted to keep an eye on him.

329
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.759
They were worried that he was going
to head for the Mexican border.

330
00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:26.240
Scott he did. Yeah, Scott
knew he was being followed and he did

331
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:29.759
everything he could to shake them as
he was driving. On April eighteenth,

332
00:23:30.519 --> 00:23:34.759
media reports were saying that the identification
of the bodies was imminent along with Scott's

333
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:40.480
arrest because he was driving so erratically. He was trying to lose his tail

334
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.880
and because of the media reports,
they decided to arrest him immediately that day.

335
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:48.359
And wasn't it kind of an oj
type chase. I don't know if

336
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.559
it was quite like that. The
OJA chase was, you know, very

337
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:55.440
slow speed with all these police.
This was he was actually you know,

338
00:23:55.559 --> 00:24:00.039
swerving around, like changing lanes really
quickly getting off like he was trying to

339
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:03.039
lose them. The chase went on
for quite a while, though, didn't

340
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.359
it. It was a couple of
hours it did. I don't know exactly

341
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.839
how long, but yes, it
did go on for a long time.

342
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.880
I heard some I think they said
Scott was actually a very good driver.

343
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.480
Yeah, yeah, they eventually when
they did pull him over finally, it

344
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:19.720
was near the Tory Pines golf Club
and they immediately placed him under arrest for

345
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:23.960
murder. Wasn't he headed there?
Yeah? Yeah, that's apparently he was.

346
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:29.279
So in the car that Scott was
driving, they found I'm going to

347
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:30.880
list out a number of things that
were in the car, and there's a

348
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.279
lot of things list. Yeah,
I'm not going to include everything, but

349
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:38.400
they found a knife, they found
a driver's license of Scott's brother, John,

350
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:44.279
They found fifteen thousand dollars in cash, three credit cards, two in

351
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:48.960
Scott's name and one in his sister
Anne's name, A bunch of camping gear,

352
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:53.000
including a water purifier, a climbing
rope, duct tape, firestarters,

353
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:59.599
leather gloves, a camp axe,
binoculars, a mask and snorkel, and

354
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:04.279
a fish rod and real There were
twelve pairs of shoes and an entire wardrobe

355
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.000
of clothes. Twelve pairs of shoes. Twelve pairs of shoes, Yes,

356
00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:11.599
do you have twelve pairs of shoes? You? Probably I do, but

357
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.680
I would never travel with twelve pairs
of shoes. It would be a very

358
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:21.599
unlike rich thing. Yes, sleeping
pills and viagra. Four cell phones,

359
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.519
which I did. I never knew
about that before. Like, why did

360
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.000
he have four cell phones? I
think some of them are burner phones.

361
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.400
Yeah, I'm sure they were.
He had a bunch of Mexican currency as

362
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.519
well. I don't know exactly how
much, but it looked like he was

363
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:37.359
planning an extended camping trip out in
the wilderness, maybe in Mexico. Who

364
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.799
knows the car itself. It turned
out he had bought for cash less than

365
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:47.480
a week earlier. He had sold
Lacey's vehicle. Yeah, and in the

366
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:51.960
paperwork that he filed for the transaction, he used the name Jacqueline Peterson,

367
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.279
claiming it was his own name.
He told the person he bought the car

368
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:59.440
from, He's like it was kind
of like a boy named Sue. Situation.

369
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.279
My parents named meet Jacqueline, but
I just go by Jack. What

370
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.200
an idiot. Yeah, he wasn't
able to show the seller his ID,

371
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.119
but he gave him a driver's license
number that he said was from Florida.

372
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.720
So basically bought this car for cash. He did not want the person to

373
00:26:14.759 --> 00:26:18.279
know who he was. Shortly after
Scott's arrest, an old classmate of his

374
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:23.000
at cal Poly called the police to
tell them about a conversation with Scott that

375
00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:27.839
he recalled from back around nineteen ninety
five. He said that Scott described to

376
00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:32.400
him how he would kill someone,
assuring him he would never do it,

377
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:36.480
of course, but Scott told his
friend that he would wrap his victim's head

378
00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:40.480
in a plastic bag, then weigh
it down and throw the body in salt

379
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:42.559
water. That way, he said, the salt and the fish would eat

380
00:26:42.599 --> 00:26:48.000
away at the fingers, destroying the
fingerprints, and by weighing the head down,

381
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.720
the body would eventually separate from the
head. Without fingerprints or the person's

382
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.119
head, Scott thought that they would
not be able to identify the victim.

383
00:26:56.319 --> 00:27:00.960
So again, you've got somebody coming
forward, and you know, hindsight as

384
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.599
always, you know, people hear
about things, they come forward, So

385
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.839
take it for what it's worth.
But that, you know, the scenario

386
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:12.759
that his friend described was very consistent, right, Yeah, But I vividly

387
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:18.000
remember in high school sitting with my
friend Laura and talking about how we were

388
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.319
going to kill, like how we
would get away with murder. So I

389
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:22.839
think it is kind of a common
Yeah, but yes, you're right,

390
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:26.200
there are a lot of coincidences there. Yeah, with that, why don't

391
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:37.480
we take a quick break. I
know you're about to get into the trial,

392
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.880
but I wanted to talk about motive
really quick. That's something that I

393
00:27:41.240 --> 00:27:45.000
struggle with a little bit, is
what was Scott's motive. I don't know.

394
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.279
Everyone's like, oh, Scott wanted
to be with Amber. No,

395
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:48.319
I don't think that was it.
I don't believe he wanted to be with

396
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:52.759
Amber either. I believe that Scott
really liked the falling in love or the

397
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:57.559
you know, the initial but I
don't think he wanted anything long term.

398
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:03.640
Yes, I I believe that is
true. And I also think that because

399
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:06.839
of the fact that Lacey was about
to have a baby that was going to

400
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:11.279
complicate his life a lot and had
like going through a divorce or something like

401
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:15.559
that would not fit his image of
being the golden boy, right, that

402
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.599
would all of a sudden be like
a you know, it would just not

403
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:22.640
fit what the image that he wanted
to portray for himself. And I think

404
00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:29.200
he looked at killing her encounter as
a way of getting his freedom and also

405
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:30.680
having people feel sorry for him,
like, you know, oh, it's

406
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.839
so sad he lost his wife.
Scott had had other long term affairs,

407
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:41.680
and so I think he knew how
to juggle to two different women. Yeah.

408
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.119
So I don't think there was a
financial motive. No, there was

409
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.880
a life insurance policy, but it
had been there for years and it was

410
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:55.519
a joint policy Lacey. This was
we haven't talked about this yet, but

411
00:28:55.599 --> 00:29:02.279
Lacey's grandmother had recently died and she
inherited like these huge diamonds. Oh really,

412
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:06.599
I didn't know that. Yeah,
they were valued over one hundred thousand

413
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:10.319
dollars. Oh yeah, like you
know, this was in two thousand and

414
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:15.000
two. She had like diamond earrings
that were I know, you don't really

415
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:19.440
know carrots, but like two carrots
each. That's a huge, huge and

416
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:26.960
at least a couple like a diamond
pendant, a diamond watch, and some

417
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:32.000
stone like a diamond. I think
her diamond ring which was also over two

418
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:36.480
carrots at the time of Lacey's death, I believe it was Scott's Christmas present

419
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:40.519
to her, kind of she was
having some of the stones reset in her

420
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:45.200
own wedding ring from her grandmother's.
I read that, Yeah, Lazy had

421
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.079
said that these pieces weren't really her
style and they were kind of huge for

422
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:52.119
a twenty seven year old woman to
wear, and you know, she had

423
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:56.319
had them priced, but she kept
wearing them because she loved her grandmother and

424
00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.640
I think she like the sentiment of
it. I believe the pieces, some

425
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.319
of the pieces were found like she
wore them all the time that some people

426
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.079
thought that that was a target for
her. She had gone on a walk

427
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:11.480
that you know, she's wearing these
big diamonds and someone could have you know,

428
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.759
taken her for that. But a
bunch of a lot of the pieces

429
00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:18.640
were left at the house. But
I think months later there was a diamond

430
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.039
watch that was the same brand that
was found at a pawn shop and it

431
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:29.039
couldn't be eliminated that that was Lacey's
watch. Okay, so that was that

432
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:33.240
was kind of interesting. I don't
believe they thought that had Lacey been abducted,

433
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.279
that possibly the abductor had pawned her
watch. Right, Well, let's

434
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:41.559
talk about the trial. Oh,
I just wanted to mention one more thing

435
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.799
that's gotten Lacey. Really. I
don't know if they had a good relationship

436
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:51.880
or not, but their portrayal was
that they were this picture perfect couple that

437
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.119
were very happy, and even Lacey's
mom was adamant. They never fought they

438
00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.640
had a really good relationship. Yeah, Lacey was really close to her mom

439
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.599
and she had a lot of really
close friends too. She never really complained

440
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:08.039
about Scott, and that to me
is a little strange, like either he

441
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:15.200
was amazing and perfect or she internalized
a lot of things, and so that's

442
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.559
what I'm kind of trying to reconcile. I think maybe she also, you

443
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.319
know, wanted to have the appearance
of a perfect life. You know,

444
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.400
maybe she was didn't want to share
that kind of thing with people as well,

445
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.319
because it would make it look like
their life wasn't perfect. So she

446
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:32.000
may have just been one of the
personality treats too. Yeah yeah, but

447
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:33.680
there were Like again, we talked
about this in part one, I think,

448
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:38.039
but in conflict with what you said
about them never fighting. In Anne

449
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:42.359
Bird's book, she did say that
Scott's mom, Jackie, told her a

450
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:47.319
couple of times that Scott and Lacey
were having problems in the month or two

451
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:53.079
in the stropped my big mug in
the month or two before Lacey's disappearance.

452
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:57.079
So your big mug, Yeah,
my big Stanley mug. Rich got a

453
00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:01.160
Stanley for his birthday. Yes,
and I just knocked it over, but

454
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:05.119
yeah, I like to steal it. Okay, Now we're going to move

455
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.839
on to the trial. All right, So you know Scott hired Mark Garrigo

456
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.599
says, we all know, right, big very famous attorney, well known.

457
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.359
He was on TV all the time. Do you know why Mark Garraghos

458
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:21.079
was hired? I think he was
one of the only people on TV that

459
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:22.799
was kind of defending Scott. Well
yeah, yeah, yeah. He kept

460
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.839
going like he kept saying, well, I think he could be innocent and

461
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:29.920
the Peterson's kind of got a wind
of that and they were like, well

462
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.759
we should, yeah, we should
hire him. And Mark Arragos was like,

463
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:36.680
all right, give me a million
bucks. Yeah, he was not

464
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:40.440
cheap. He was not cheap.
And the Peterson family pulled their money together.

465
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:45.160
And I do believe it was a
family pool that paid for Mark Garragos

466
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:50.400
except for his sister. Yeah,
the one sister. It was in the

467
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:53.680
one book by Catherine Crary. It
almost seemed a little bit unnecessary. But

468
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:59.000
she was talking about how his sister
Sharon, I think is that that's her

469
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:00.319
name, right, Sharon? I
am not sure, but I know I

470
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:04.480
can picture her. She's the one
with the short hair in the documentary.

471
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:07.559
Said something in the book about how
she did not contribute to the fund,

472
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.240
and in fact, she and her
husband built a pool, which seemed a

473
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:17.240
little unnecessarily petty. And that is
my critique of Kathleen or Catherine Cryer.

474
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.440
That's my critique of her book.
It's really it's pretty biased. It's caddy.

475
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:24.519
I mean, I don't mind that
it's biased as much as she inserts

476
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:30.920
some anecdotes or some personal comments that
just aren't necessary that tracked honestly from her

477
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:36.599
argument. Yeah, yeah, it's
a great example of one. So Mark

478
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:40.079
Gerragos filed for a change of venue
arguing that Scott was not going to be

479
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:45.039
able to get a fair trial in
modesto, and the motion was granted.

480
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.880
The trial would be moved to Redwood
City. The trial would have to be

481
00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:52.960
moved to Uranus for people not to
have heard about it, Yeah, exactly

482
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:58.440
before the preliminary hearing. Scott was
reportedly unhappy with Gargos. He felt that

483
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:02.240
he wasn't giving got the attention that
he deserved after they paid a million dollars

484
00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:07.799
to him as a retainer fee,
and Scott actually signed in agreement with another

485
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.559
firm. But when Garret Goes found
out about it, he went and confronted

486
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:15.280
Scott face to face in jail and
reportedly he told Scott that he would fry

487
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:21.320
if he switched, and he guaranteed
Scott a victory in order to get him

488
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:24.480
to switch back to Garrett beause he
happened. Sometimes with a high profile attorney,

489
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:29.719
they're so busy, and yeah,
they like to get their spotlight,

490
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.360
but they don't necessarily put that work
in that they need to put in.

491
00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:36.000
Yeah, they just kind of think
they have this force of personality. They're

492
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.719
going to walk into the courtroom and
everyone's going to be like wowed by them.

493
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:43.639
But it can't be ethical for a
lawyer to say, I guarantee you

494
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:46.400
that I'm going to get you acquitted. That just does not seem ethical at

495
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:52.920
all. If he actually said that
jury selection began on March fourth of two

496
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:57.800
thousand and four, it took three
months just for jury selection. But on

497
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:04.840
May twenty seven, and this wouldn't
murd awe did. It took like a

498
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.639
jury was seated in a week.
And that was shocking to me that his

499
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:10.079
jury was seated so fast. And
like those cases, I mean, I

500
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:14.679
know Scott Peterson, that case is
a lot more, but still they were

501
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:19.119
both pretty high profile. Yeah,
So on May twenty seventh, a jury

502
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.960
of twelve plus six alternates was sworn
in. The trial began on June first.

503
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:28.000
In his opening statement, Geragos claimed
that he would not only refute the

504
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.880
state's case, but he would prove
beyond a reasonable doubt that Scott Peterson was

505
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:37.320
not guilty. He said there were
witnesses who had seen Lacey walking her dog

506
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:40.480
after the time that police say she
was killed, and that they would have

507
00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:46.159
an expert testify that Lacey had carried
counter to term. One juror was dismissed

508
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:51.239
after thirteen days of the trial because
he had been seen talking to Lacey's brother

509
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:55.559
near the metal detector entering the courthouse, but also because he discussed media coverage

510
00:35:55.559 --> 00:36:00.960
of the case with his girlfriend.
Other jurors say that he was discussing the

511
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.599
case when he shouldn't have been,
and he was seen almost daily giving a

512
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:07.119
nod and a smile to the defense
table as he walked by on the way

513
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:12.039
to the jury box. The ousted
juror spoke to the press, and he

514
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:15.760
said that Scott was clearly innocent,
his affair with Amber was a meaningless side

515
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:21.199
thing, and implied that several jury
members felt the same way that he did.

516
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.719
The prosecution's case was thin at best. He said. The defense focused

517
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:31.519
on discrediting the investigation, especially Detective
Brokini, saying that they were only focused

518
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:37.000
on Scott they didn't consider any other
possibility. Gergos attacked Brokini on the stand

519
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.960
for not following up on three witness
accounts that may have placed Lacey in the

520
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.480
park on the morning of December twenty
fourth. We had talked earlier about there

521
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.199
are as many as two dozen sightings
of Lacey on the morning of December twenty

522
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:58.679
fourth, And that's something that I've
always thought, and the documentary really Hammer's

523
00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:01.039
Home is like, oh, all
these people saw Lacey. If there was

524
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:07.320
one, even one valid sighting of
Lacey, Mark Erragos would have had them

525
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:12.239
on the stand. Yes, yes, So it makes you wonder, like,

526
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.639
so these sightings there must have they
knew that the state would be able

527
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:21.840
to refute them. Yeah, yeah, Well, and the fact that it's

528
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:25.400
really strange to me that Gergos in
his opening statement said that he would bring

529
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:30.719
people to testify that they saw Lacey, but then he never did. And

530
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.639
I think that was one of the
big problems that the jury saw is that

531
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:37.639
he made this bold promise like yeah, and then he never followed through on

532
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.920
it, And yeah, why didn't
he follow through on it? Like there

533
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.440
there must have been some flaws in
their story or I think they just realized

534
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:50.079
that they were not reliable enough and
that the state was just going to tear

535
00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:52.639
them down, yeah and make him
look bad. Otherwise he definitely would have

536
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:58.440
had them on the stand. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Amber Fry took

537
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.679
the stand on day thirty four of
the trial for six days of testimony.

538
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:07.280
Her testimony didn't prove that Scott was
a murderer, but hearing the recorded phone

539
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.559
conversations really showed them that he was
a liar. As we've talked about,

540
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:16.360
jurors were particularly turned off by Scott
attending the candlelight vigil for Lacey right before

541
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:21.559
being on the phone with Amber and
telling his stories about his European travels.

542
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:27.239
The prosecution rested after nineteen weeks and
one hundred and seventy five witnesses. Oh

543
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:30.679
my gosh, so, as we've
already talked about, despite promising to produce

544
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:35.960
witnesses who saw Lacey walking her dog
on the twenty fourth gearagoes failed to deliver.

545
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.480
None of those witnesses testified why.
We don't know for sure, but

546
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:45.159
it's definitely a problem for a defense
attorney to make a claim like that upfront

547
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:51.599
and then not follow through. Another
key moment during the defense's witnesses testimony was

548
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:55.599
the testimony of doctor Charles march So. March is a gynecologist who was set

549
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:01.400
to testify that Connor died around December
twenty ninth, five days after Lacy vanished.

550
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.039
If this was the case. Then
it would exonerate Scott completely. There

551
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.360
would be no question about it if
he could show that Connor died on December

552
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:15.559
twenty ninth. On cross examination,
however, his testimony fell apart. First,

553
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:19.800
he admitted that estimating the age of
a fetus at death is not an

554
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:23.480
exact science. He said, quote
to find a specific date is impossible.

555
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.880
It is, It is not.
It is less than nonscience. It's a

556
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:31.840
one hundred percent impossibility to narrow something
down something you really don't want your expert

557
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:35.880
witness to stay. Yeah, he's
gonna say more things that you wouldn't want

558
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.760
your expert witness to say. It
turned out that his estimate of Lacey's conception

559
00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:45.000
date was based on a friend of
hers saying when Lacey told her about the

560
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.280
pregnancy, not on any actual medical
records. At one point, the beleaguered

561
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.519
defense expert asked the prosecutor questioning him
to cut him some slack, like he

562
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:59.639
was just I guess he was like
just sweating and like slouching down in his

563
00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:06.360
chain and just was just broken under
the testimony. And he also admitted at

564
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:10.320
one point that he was a fertility
expert, not an expert in forensic pathology

565
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:16.159
or forensic anthropology, and he admitted
that the prosecution experts were actually better for

566
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:21.800
picking a date of death. So
yeah, not, it didn't help at

567
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:25.199
all. This argument that Connor's date
of death was later than the twenty fourth

568
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:29.800
was really the heart of the defense's
case, and it was pretty much destroyed

569
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:34.320
at this point, along with Geragos's
credibility and not following up on the promises

570
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:38.119
he made in his opening statement.
After six days of testimony, the defense

571
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:43.480
rested an example of the headlines that
came out in the newspapers at that time,

572
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:47.840
here was one that said quote defense
called surprisingly weak. Trial watchers say

573
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:53.400
attorney did not pursue key claims.
After seventy four days of testimony, the

574
00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:58.280
case was now in the hands of
the jury. After thirty two hours of

575
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.199
deliberations, the judge announced that he
he was replacing jur number seven with an

576
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:07.119
alternate because the juror had gone to
the Internet to research the fishing website that

577
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.400
Peterson had gone to, and that's
a big no no, as we all

578
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:15.000
know. That meant that deliberations would
have to start over again and to get

579
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:20.000
a fresh start. The jury elected
a new four person because jur number five,

580
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:22.679
who had been the four person,
was seen by everybody else on the

581
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:25.760
jury is very difficult to work with. There's a lot of like controversy in

582
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:31.760
the jury. The original four person
was an attorney and a doctor, and

583
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:36.800
he didn't really play well with others, is what I heard. Yeah,

584
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:39.079
he didn't and he kept to himself, and the other jurors were, you

585
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:45.079
know, it's kind of you're together
for months. Yeah, and he Yeah,

586
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:47.960
he didn't get along with the other
jurs but obviously he was an intelligent

587
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:55.639
guy and he was leaning towards an
innocent verdict. Oh I'm correct. I

588
00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:58.440
could be wrong. It could be. I did not read that, but

589
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.760
I did read it. Was reading
the book by the jurors. He was

590
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:05.360
not one of the ones who authored
the book, but they really did not

591
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.440
like him at all. And one
of the things that he did is he

592
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.039
took a huge amount of notes.
Like everybody else, like you take a

593
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:13.800
note here, and you take a
note there, but he wrote down everything.

594
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:17.880
I believe he filled nineteen notebooks.
Yeah. Anytime they would go to

595
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:21.280
discuss a piece of evidence and they
would be like, well, what's your

596
00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:22.519
opinion, he'd be like, well, wait a minute, I have to

597
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.880
go check my notes, and he'd
have to go find his notes, and

598
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.360
they came to the conclusion that they
were like, you took a lot of

599
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:30.840
notes, but you weren't listening,
Like you were just writing stuff down,

600
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:36.840
but you weren't really listening. So
they were very frustrated with him. The

601
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:40.719
next morning, he actually asked to
be dismissed as well, and he told

602
00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:45.559
the judge that he had broken the
rules by discussing the case with another juror

603
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:49.880
outside of deliberations, but the other
jurors felt like because he was no longer

604
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.360
in charge, he wanted to actually
derail the process and he wanted to cause

605
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:58.920
a mistrial. But he was dismissed
and deliberations began anew From here, the

606
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.840
deliberations actually moved much more smoothly and
rapidly. After an additional seven hours and

607
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:07.599
fourteen minutes of deliberation, the jury
announced it had reached a verdict guilty of

608
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:12.320
murder in the first degree for Lacey's
murder and guilty of murder in the second

609
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:15.880
degree for baby Connor. In the
book that I read, it was several

610
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:21.239
of the jury members collaborated on this
book. It was called we the jury

611
00:43:21.800 --> 00:43:25.559
in it. They talked about why
they found Peterson guilty, and the bottom

612
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:30.079
line is they said it wasn't one
thing. There was no smoking gun,

613
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:34.639
It was really everything. Some of
the key factors that they mentioned. The

614
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.360
timeline that gave Lacey only ten minutes
to get ready, walk the dog and

615
00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:44.920
get it abducted just didn't seem possible. The tarp being contaminated with gasoline seemed

616
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.599
significant to them, especially from someone
like Scott who was very meticulous about taking

617
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:53.599
care of his things. The videotape
showing his interview with Detective Brokini on the

618
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:58.840
evening that Lacey was reported missing.
When the call came in from Lacey's sister

619
00:43:58.920 --> 00:44:02.000
Amy, instead of asking if there
was any news, he breezily answered the

620
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.000
phone, Amy, what's going on. Also in the same tape, he

621
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:10.800
tells Brokini the family is going to
need grief counseling, which is pretty strange,

622
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:15.559
like the you know, she's just
vanished. Also, Scott buying the

623
00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:20.440
boat without apparently telling anyone or not
telling many people, searching the internet for

624
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:25.199
deep water currents, buying freshwater tackle
for saltwater fishing, not opening the tackle,

625
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:30.679
not being able to initially remember what
he was fishing for, telling some

626
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:36.039
people he'd been golfing that day.
Regarding the testimony from Amber Fry, jurors

627
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:38.679
said that him being an adulter did
not make them think that he was a

628
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:44.639
murderer, but hearing him lie so
easily on the recorded phone calls with her

629
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:49.280
definitely had an impact. His arrogance, the web of lies that he spun,

630
00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:53.119
and the fact that he showed no
remorse and not a lot of emotion.

631
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:58.039
He had the motive, the ability, the desire, and the access.

632
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:01.920
During the penalty phase of the trial, there were victim impact statements from

633
00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:07.400
Lacy's brother, her half sister,
stepfather, and mother. On the other

634
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.639
side, Scott's father, half sister
Susan, Susan I said Sharon earlier,

635
00:45:13.199 --> 00:45:15.800
Okay, gotcha, it was Susan. His half brother John, and a

636
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:21.679
number of other relatives spoke on Scott's
behalf, with Scott's mom, Jackie closing

637
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:24.199
it out, but in the end, the jury decided on the death penalty.

638
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:30.199
In August of twenty twenty, Scott's
death sentence was overturned by the California

639
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:35.840
Supreme Court, but he was not
granted a new trial. Scott's lawyers no

640
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:44.559
longer what Mark Geragos argued that the
jury had unfairly dismissed potential jurors that disagreed

641
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:47.960
with the death penalty. They argued
that jury, I'm sorry, Juror number

642
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:54.840
seven, Rachelle Nice aka Strawberry Shortcake, committed misconduct when she lied on a

643
00:45:54.840 --> 00:46:00.239
pre trial questionnaire in an attempt to
be chosen for the jury because she really

644
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:06.719
hated Scott Peterson, and she'd had
a history of domestic violence, and she

645
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:10.679
really wanted to be on the jury. After the trial, she gleefully celebrated

646
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:15.800
his conviction, and she and six
others churers wrote a book that you may

647
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:21.119
have heard of, called We the
Jury. The judge ruled against the motion.

648
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.679
She said that Nice was not biased
against Peterson, but instead her questionnaire

649
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:30.880
responses were quote the result of a
combination of good faith, misunderstanding of the

650
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:37.199
questions and sloppiness in answering. Scott's
attorneys claim that they still have they have

651
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:39.880
new evidence that he is innocent,
and they will present this at a new

652
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:45.599
trial. There was also evidence that
one of the sniffer dogs we already talked

653
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:52.199
about this had failed their certification test
multiple times, and in December of twenty

654
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:54.880
twenty two, Scott was denied a
new trial. But they have like a

655
00:46:54.920 --> 00:47:00.920
whole I mean, there's so many
websites dedicated to the of evidence that you

656
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:06.440
know, was either not good evidence
or evidence that wasn't admitted into trial.

657
00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:10.480
And there's been so many attempts at
getting Scott a new trial. His sister

658
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:15.719
in law, Janey is it.
She has been relentless in trying to get

659
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:19.280
a new trial for Scott. Yeah, there are a lot of people that

660
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:22.079
feel very strongly about his innocence.
I will say that I am not one

661
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.440
of them, but there, Yeah, there's a lot of people that are

662
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:30.320
fighting for him. Just this summer, even though it had been two years

663
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:35.039
since his death sentence was revoked,
he was finally taken off death row in

664
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:42.840
Saint Quentin and moved to Mule Creek
State Prison in Ione, California. Lacey

665
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:46.079
and Connor were finally laid to rest
on August thirtieth, two thousand and three,

666
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:51.800
in Escalon, California, at Burwood
Cemetery, with two hundred and fifty

667
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:57.199
people in attendance. They were buried
together in a single casket. On April

668
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.800
first, two thousand and four,
George Bush signed the un Born Victims of

669
00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:06.639
Violence Act, also known as Lazy
and Connor's Law. Sharon and Ron were

670
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.880
in attendance. The act makes it
a federal offense if death or injury is

671
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:15.280
caused to an unborn child during violence
to a pregnant woman, the perpetrator will

672
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:21.360
be charged with a separate offense.
So there's that which is nice that it's

673
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:28.840
named in their honor. Lazy and
Connor's gravestone is engraved Lazy Denise Rocha and

674
00:48:28.880 --> 00:48:31.360
it says like our brown eyed girl
under her name, and the other side

675
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:37.239
has Connor's name and it says our
precious baby Connor. The bottom of the

676
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:42.760
gravestone says, quote your smile,
contagious laughter, loving heart and free spirit

677
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:45.760
will forever be with us. We
love you so much and hold you close

678
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:50.960
within our hearts until we are together
again. So sad. She was so

679
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:54.000
young and she just wanted to be
a mother so badly too, And it's

680
00:48:54.559 --> 00:49:00.599
heartbreaking. It's just so devastating when
you only very part of your child,

681
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:05.159
Like that's just that's so hard.
But Sharon has been, you know,

682
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:09.800
really strong, and a lot of
respect for her and what she's been through

683
00:49:10.000 --> 00:49:14.599
and I hope she's found some peace. Yeah, I hope so too.

684
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:20.440
So that that's pretty much the story. There's a few things that I didn't

685
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:23.440
mention that I that I have some
notes here. But one thing that is

686
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:29.800
really bizarre is Amber sent out Christmas
cards with a picture of her and Scott

687
00:49:29.800 --> 00:49:32.719
in them. Oh wow, yeah, like that for I mean that that

688
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.679
year of two thousand and two.
Yeah, that's well, I mean she

689
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:42.400
thought this is her boyfriend. I
guess she really was serious, she was

690
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:50.000
ready commit. Yeah. Wow.
You had mentioned earlier that Lacey had her

691
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:54.880
wedding ring, that it was in
the store to be reworked to include her

692
00:49:54.880 --> 00:50:00.320
grandmother's stones, and that that was
Scott's Christmas gift to her, or at

693
00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:02.920
least part of his Christmas gift to
her, And I thought I saw somewhere

694
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:07.480
that there were no other gifts like
under the tree for her from Scott.

695
00:50:07.559 --> 00:50:10.599
Is that have you seen that?
I read that too. There were definitely

696
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:14.719
several presents under the tree, and
one of them was a really big box.

697
00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:17.159
I thought that might have had her
name on it. But he did

698
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:22.599
say that there was a Louis Vuton
wallet and it was in like the gift

699
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:29.400
bag, and he said that was
his gift to her, but the receipt

700
00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:32.840
might have had her signature on it, like she used her credit card for

701
00:50:32.920 --> 00:50:39.320
it and signed for it. To
me, that's not that weird because I

702
00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:44.280
mean, it's December seventeenth. How's
your Christmas shopping going? And what did

703
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:46.039
I say to you when you got
home from your trip, Like if you

704
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:50.719
want me to buy my own Christmas
presents, I will. And so sometimes

705
00:50:50.719 --> 00:50:53.719
that just kind of happens, you
know where, Honey, I really want

706
00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:59.239
this Louis Vuton wallet, and a
Louis Vuton wallet is not That's not a

707
00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:01.039
cheap gift. So it could have
just been she was like, Scott,

708
00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:06.039
I just really want this wallet,
and so I don't really, but yeah,

709
00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:09.639
it is a little suspicious. Yeah, maybe there was a robe underneath

710
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:14.360
the tree. For we keep joking
about a robe, but we haven't said

711
00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:16.760
why we're joking about a robe.
Well, I posted it on our social

712
00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:20.400
media. A lot of people listen
that don't go to our ol. Okay,

713
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:23.440
there's just a really funny SNL skit
that is about you know, Kristen

714
00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:28.800
Wigg is the mom and you know
she's talking about her Everyone saw all this

715
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:31.599
stuff, and she's like, I
got a rope. It was funny because

716
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:37.880
I forgot to like credit SNL and
Facebook took it down. Oh really yeah,

717
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:42.480
but Instagram and they sent me like
a message like, but I Instagram

718
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.079
didn't, which is kind of strange. It's one of the funniest sketches of

719
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:47.320
all time. It's pretty well,
maybe it's funny to you. I cried

720
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:52.519
when I saw it. So one
of Scott's biggest defenses, in my opinion,

721
00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:57.360
is uh, leaving his wife on
Christmas Eve to go fishing when she's

722
00:51:57.400 --> 00:52:01.360
got things to do. Yeah,
typical, Yeah, yeah, I think

723
00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:06.719
you know Scott he did. He
had a lot of masks because he was

724
00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:09.360
pretty good at putting them on.
But you know, was he happy about

725
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:12.960
the baby? You know, probably
not. But a lot of first time

726
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:15.360
dads. I'm not defending him,
but a lot of first time dads might

727
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:20.840
not be thrilled. Oh yeah,
I'm sure a lot of people have anxiety

728
00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:25.079
or maybe don't feel quite as positive
about it as you would think. Did

729
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:29.800
Scott let the dog out? Like
that's one thing, like Mackenzie did.

730
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.400
He just put Mackenzie in the backyard
with a leasha on and be like,

731
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:35.719
hey, Mackenzie, you know,
go out into the road. And well,

732
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:37.840
if he did it, I mean, yeah, he must have.

733
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:40.400
Or maybe he took the dog into
the truck and drove down the street and

734
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:45.920
then just you know, pushed him
out the door. Scott allegedly had as

735
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:51.039
many as seven affairs during their marriage. Did you see that many? I

736
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:53.199
didn't, but fair, I'm sure
there was probably some one night stands in

737
00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:58.280
there. It wasn't necessarily a relationship. Yeah. Well, doing my research,

738
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:01.360
I found myself wondering if it's possible
that Scott has some sort of sexual

739
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:07.599
dysfunction, like he needs to get
an erection, He needs to it needs

740
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:13.199
to be kind of dangerous. Yagra
was found in his vehicle right right,

741
00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:17.760
and Lacey had a hard time getting
pregnant. Was it because he could have

742
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:22.079
had a problem? I have not, and that's why he needed to cheat

743
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.119
so much? Yeah, it could
be. I don't have an opinion one

744
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:29.519
way or another on that, and
I did not see anything in my research

745
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:31.199
to tell me one way or another. But or could they have had an

746
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:35.559
open marriage? I mean, there
is no evidence that I can't believe that

747
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:39.519
she just does that from everything I've
seen about Lacey. She does not seem

748
00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:43.280
like the kind of person who would
be okay with that. But you know

749
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:46.480
else, she definitely knew about the
first affair for sure. Yeah, yeah,

750
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:52.440
yeah, I guess we don't know. The Scott and Lacy Peterson case

751
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:55.639
has so many parallels to the Shenan
and Chris Watts case. I need to

752
00:53:55.679 --> 00:54:02.519
mention that if both men had no
history of violence at all until they killed

753
00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:07.480
their wives. Yeah, and that's
kind of chilling to me. So I

754
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:12.880
guess we're at the end. We're
done, Thank goodness. I'm very excited,

755
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:15.760
though it was a marathon that I
can say goodbye to Scott Peters said,

756
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:17.360
I'd like to never think about him
again as I can, so,

757
00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:22.920
I don't think you need to tell
anyone how you feel. You feel like

758
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:27.079
he is I So I went into
this, you know, I knew a

759
00:54:27.079 --> 00:54:29.480
little bit about it. We've watched
a couple of shows, but I don't

760
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:34.920
you remember that much. I went
into it thinking he was probably guilty,

761
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:37.760
but having some doubt and knowing that
there were a lot of stories of other

762
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:42.480
witnesses and things like that. At
the end of it, after all the

763
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:46.119
research and everything, I am more
firmly convinced that he is guilty than ever

764
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:50.480
before. And I think before I
think I would have said if I was

765
00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:52.320
on the jury, I might have
had reasonable doubt. Now I do not

766
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:57.760
think I would have reasonable doubt.
Okay, so you're like not one hundred

767
00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:00.960
percent, but you're pretty close to
it much pretty close. Okay. I

768
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:09.360
was probably seventy five percent guilty before
and now I'm I'm pretty much around ninety

769
00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:15.440
ninety nine ninety eight percent. I
just wanted to mention the things for me

770
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:17.840
because I was definitely little on the
fence before we started this. I wouldn't

771
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:22.239
wanted to mention the factors to me
that were really like, yeah, I

772
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:27.800
can't explain this away. Connor's gestational
age had kind of you know, they

773
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:31.400
had changed it so to me,
you know, at the trial they tried

774
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:37.039
to say that he was much older
or like the I think at the documentary

775
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:42.280
that we watched, which is what
documentary is that? The one on the

776
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:45.480
Yeah, I think it was called
The Murder of Lacy Peterson. Yeah,

777
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:47.360
I have. I had watched that
actually more than once, and that is

778
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:52.480
a it's a pretty misleading documentary,
I would say, yeah, and that

779
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:55.559
makes you think like, oh,
he was alive for two weeks or three

780
00:55:55.559 --> 00:56:00.119
weeks, but no, it was
a matter of days. And I just

781
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.559
I don't think that that is reliable
evidence. And lace that Lacey when she

782
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:08.119
was found that she was wearing the
tan pants and not the black pants that

783
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:12.599
everyone thought she was wearing. But
if she had been adut abducted, she

784
00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:15.239
wouldn't have had time to change.
They weren't going to bring her home to

785
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:19.119
get her a new set of clothes. Yeah, and you know, I

786
00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:21.679
don't think she went for that walk. I think that people just saw,

787
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:24.360
you know, a different pregnant woman. And the timeline too, I think

788
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:30.400
was really that that to me was
a big factor in strengthening my view of

789
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:34.480
his guilt, is that timeline is
just so narrow that it just doesn't seem

790
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:37.199
like it would have worked. Yeah. And again, you know that's something

791
00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:40.159
that I think people don't realize that
how how tight that timeline really is.

792
00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:45.719
The fact that Lacey's cervix was closed
and I really don't think she gave birth

793
00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:52.400
to Connor. Her missing limbs seemed
to confirm the theory that there were you

794
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:57.960
know, the anchors were tied to
her limbs. Yeah, yeah, and

795
00:56:58.000 --> 00:57:02.400
that pretty much got me to yeah, I definitely think he's guilty. We

796
00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:06.159
both came to the same conclusion.
I was a little worry we were going

797
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:09.719
to end up in a do when
we started. I was definitely a little

798
00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:15.920
not pro sCOD because my theory is, even if he is an innocent,

799
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:22.119
all the lies and deceit and horrible
ways he treated women, he starts to

800
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:29.199
be chailed. Right, I still
can't say one hundred percent that I would

801
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:35.679
have found him guilty, though I
know that circumstantial evidence is evidence, but

802
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:38.639
I wish that there were maybe just
just a little bit of forensic evidence in

803
00:57:38.679 --> 00:57:43.159
there too. Yes, I wish
there was too, I really do,

804
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:47.679
but I still am It's hard.
You know, we didn't sit through the

805
00:57:47.679 --> 00:57:52.440
trial of exactly how long was the
trial of It's a long trial, a

806
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:54.599
lot of evidence, a lot of
people there. So for us to sit

807
00:57:54.639 --> 00:57:58.960
here and make judgments, all we
can do is based on what we've read.

808
00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:04.079
And the challenge is a lot of
the sources of information are slanted one

809
00:58:04.079 --> 00:58:07.440
way or another, Like it seems
like every book, every show has,

810
00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:12.119
you know, kind of one point
of view that they're trying to to prove,

811
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:15.320
which is fine, but it does
kind of give you a slanted,

812
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:16.880
you know, perspective on things.
So I think it was good that we

813
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:21.000
Yeah, it was good that we
did. We went to multiple sources,

814
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:25.480
we watched multiple documentaries, we watched
we read multiple books that had different slants.

815
00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:30.079
So we tried to keep as open
mind as possible. We definitely did,

816
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:35.119
and I hope that showed through.
And I hope our listeners enjoyed this

817
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:40.039
and aren't really I hope they're still
with us. I totally understand if you

818
00:58:40.239 --> 00:58:45.400
needed to skip this episode. Yes, well, what are we going to

819
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:55.159
do now that we're done with Scott
Peterson? I think, well, thank

820
00:58:55.199 --> 00:58:59.920
you for all those nice Christmas gifts. That was so lovely. I can't

821
00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:06.920
leave you got me all those diamonds. Spoiler alert. Yes, you still

822
00:59:06.920 --> 00:59:09.000
have some shopping to do. You've
been really busy, and I trust me,

823
00:59:09.079 --> 00:59:12.000
I'm not. I am not giving
you a hard time. I know

824
00:59:12.039 --> 00:59:15.000
you've been really busy. I have
done a fair amount of shopping, but

825
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:16.960
I do need to get out there
a little bit. It's okay, trust

826
00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:21.440
it's okay. Being married to you
is gift enough? Oh that's I can

827
00:59:21.719 --> 00:59:25.000
I can totally understand. Yes,
it is. Every day is a gift.

828
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:30.800
Yes, every minute, every day
is like Christmas? It sure is.

829
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:34.440
What are we going to do on
your time off? I think we

830
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:37.079
already talked about it. I'm going
to do a jigsaw puzzle. I'm going

831
00:59:37.159 --> 00:59:40.360
to read at least two books.
I think jigsaw puzzle, Jigsaw puzzle,

832
00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:45.599
jigsaw. Like is that every puzzle
called a jigsaw puzzle or every puzzle?

833
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:51.000
I'm dumb because we're always a little
dumb. But I'm a little a little

834
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:54.159
tired. It's a marathon because we
started in daylight. Yes, it is

835
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:59.320
now pitch black out. It is
a black But I was going to say,

836
00:59:59.320 --> 01:00:00.960
I think we need to out a
few movies to watch, like I

837
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:05.079
feel like we haven't. I don't
know, We've been working pretty hard.

838
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:08.800
Yeah, we haven't really taken time
to watch any good movies lately. So

839
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:13.079
okay, let's do it well.
If anyone has any recommendations, and to

840
01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:16.679
your listener, let us know what
you thought about us collaborating on these last

841
01:00:16.679 --> 01:00:21.280
three episodes, if you enjoyed that, or if you would rather have the

842
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:22.800
way we usually do it, where
you know, Rich tells me a story

843
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:27.559
or I tell him a story.
I thought we worked honestly, if I'm

844
01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:30.800
being totally honest, you can be
totally honest. Okay, we're all friends

845
01:00:30.800 --> 01:00:37.239
here. That went better than I
thought it would because we hadn't. We

846
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:38.599
had a rough outline of who was
going to take care of it, but

847
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:43.000
I thought we we'd not go through
it in detail. No, it was

848
01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:45.320
long, but I think I think
it went pretty well, went well.

849
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:49.000
We covered it pretty well. Yeah. And oh, if you're listening to

850
01:00:49.000 --> 01:00:53.159
this on January first, by the
way, go blue, Michigan is going

851
01:00:53.199 --> 01:00:57.599
to be playing Alabama. You see, you haven't talked about football college football

852
01:00:57.639 --> 01:01:00.480
playoffs. That is a big deal. It's a huge, huge deal.

853
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:04.280
Yeah, very exciting. I always
say this, but I always want you

854
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:08.440
to just live in the glory of
you had a perfect season. You're you

855
01:01:08.440 --> 01:01:14.320
know, I'm happy no matter how
it ends. I'm happy, but even

856
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:19.039
happier if they win a national championship. All right, you know. Always

857
01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:21.440
good to talk about football, and
I never get to talk about the You

858
01:01:21.519 --> 01:01:23.800
talk about the housewives, not like
in that way, like, oh,

859
01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:29.320
I hope, I don't know.
Do you want to reserve a segment on

860
01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:31.960
future shows to have your house I
really don't. I never watched them live.

861
01:01:32.119 --> 01:01:36.480
You know, I'm just kind of
you know, yeah, somewhat of

862
01:01:36.519 --> 01:01:40.000
a recent obsession. Really, I
see well. Happy New Year, friends,

863
01:01:40.039 --> 01:01:45.760
Happy New Year. Twenty twenty four
is a year ful filled with health

864
01:01:46.239 --> 01:01:53.719
and new adventures and happiness and happiness
and thank you all. And we say

865
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:55.679
it a lot, but we can
never say it enough. We are so

866
01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:00.119
grateful for all of you taking the
time to listen to us and to give

867
01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:06.519
us feedback and send us your comments. We just really appreciate it, We

868
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:09.840
sure do. You guys are amazing
and generous and we really Yeah, like

869
01:02:09.880 --> 01:02:13.199
you said, you said it,
you said it wonderfully. So I'm not

870
01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:19.199
going to elaborate. Follow us on
social media, Love Mary Kill on Instagram

871
01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:23.000
and Facebook. You can send us
an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com.

872
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:29.800
Consider supporting us on Patreon, Patreon
dot com, slash love Marykill five

873
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:35.239
dollars a month, one tier early
episodes, no ads, and one bonus

874
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:37.960
episode a month. Do you think
people are listening to us at the gym?

875
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:44.159
Yes? There, get it girl, get it, guy, do

876
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:51.639
it. This is your year,
don't let go again. Is your year

877
01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:57.360
mental health and clarity and good health. Keep up the workout. You should

878
01:02:57.360 --> 01:03:02.000
be a motivational speaker. I am. I'm never good at I don't want

879
01:03:02.039 --> 01:03:06.079
to bet you very much to I. This is your year. Rich Alright,

880
01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:12.679
I'm gonna do it until next time, taking no until next time.

881
01:03:12.679 --> 01:04:00.519
Don't kill your husband. Don't kill
your wife.