Melissa and Christopher Wolfenbarger

0:00 Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and some. Days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to love, Mary Kill. Hey Tina, Hey Rich, How are you today? I am good? How are you? I'm doing pretty good. You pulled me away from my electric blanket. Though, I am so sorry to be the. Loveliest, most luxurious electric blanket. It's really nice and I was under it doing my next case and now I'm in this cold room.

0:45 Yeah. I'm not a big electric blanket guy, but that one is really nice. I'm a little bit jealous. It's very luxurious and you need it right now. It's just Spencer, so so cold, NonStop, and no end in sight either. Yeah, and you just had to clear the driveway again. Yeah again, too many times so far. This is You're more coming our way, not just us, though. It's kind of scary. What's gonna happen? Like down in the South. I don't know if you've heard about it. They're expecting inches of ice and like areas that don't get snow, like up to thirty inches of snow and like Nashville and places like that that. They're just not equipped to deal with that. It literally closes down the state until the snow melts, and it's just it's a disaster. So I'll stay safe out there.

1:27 I hope you guys are safe and warm and snug. And the thing that happens too, especially with ice, is people lose power. And you know, snow day and ice day is all fun. And good until your power. Yeah, it's really so. I hope you're all safe, and I hope that when this episode comes out that everyone is warm and snug, but I know that that's probably not gonna be the case. Do you want to have a snowball fight later? Yeah, let's even though it's super cold. Oh, I was gonna bring the snow inside. That's one of the best things we ever had, is those fake snowballs. Yeah. They're just like little stuffed snow. Yeah. They were like fifty of them in the container and whenever the kid's friends. Yeah, all right, before we get into the snack, it can smell. You made me something really delicious. I wanted to give another podcast a shout out.

2:12 A listener let me know that they gave us a shout out, which was very kind and appreciated. So I just wanted to mention Murder Unscripted by Ed and Melissa. I listened to them today and they're great. So if you guys are looking for another podcast to listen to, I recommend that you give Murder Unscripted with Ed and Melissa a try. Very cool Ed is. Actually a true crime TV producer turned podcaster with over twenty years of experience producing Forensic Files, Cold Case Files, and a lot of other great shows like that, so he knows what he's talking about. Well, I did make you a snack. It is staying warm right now in the airfire. I'll go get it. But before I do that, I'll tell you about it. I made you a copycat waffle House waffle awesome. Today's case is going to be in Atlanta, and the victim actually worked at waffle house, and I just it made me want waffles as I was researching the case, thinking about waffle house. We don't have them around here, and I thought, I'm going to make a waffle.

3:09 It's funny. I remember our honeymoon, which was four hundred and twelve years old. I hadn't been down south a lot. I guess. We drove to Orlando. We drove to Orlando, and then we had a two week honeymoon. We went to Orlando and then we went to Jamaica for the second week, but we drove the first lag because you know. We've always loved a car trip. But the amount of waffle houses in the South was just flabbergasting to me. Yeah, it was chef every exit. So I actually ordered. Waffle House makes a waffle mix that you can order, and I actually ordered it, but it's not going to get here until next week, so I just may I found a copycat recipe and made that. So okay, I tried it. Not the biggest waffle fan, but I bet it's going to be delicious.

3:49 All right, I'll go get it and we'll give it a try. Did you enjoy your copycat waffle House waffle? Well, first, I have to tell our listeners that we had to take a field trip to go down to the kitchen because obviously waffles are a little messy, and when you make things, you're a very good cook, but you are not the neatest cook. So I have to roast you a little bit about that. There's like little you know, trails of flour and batter and you know. So it happens. It happens. It's not how you have to clean it up. But I ain't no big deal. I, like I said, I'm not the biggest waffle fan. So they were good, yeah, but I wasn't in love with it.

4:32 I'm not really sure what makes We haven't been to the waffle house in many years, and I'm not really sure what makes a waffle house waffle different than a regular waffle. To me, it tastes like a regular waffle. Weren't they really big? I don't know. I think there's something different, like the way they make them. I don't know, Okay, but I make waffles sometimes at home, and I like my recipe a lot. Yeah, so I would prefer that because they're really crispy, and I like things to be really crispy. Yeah, these didn't come out as I liked either. Yeah, and I My favorite recipe comes from Sarah from Our Best Bites, her light and crispy waffles. She uses kind of a lot of corn starch in them that makes them crispop, and her buttermilk syrup is one of my favorite recipes. And we did have some of Yeah, we did have some of that, so yeah, that is really good. Yeah, but it was a good effort. It was a good waffle. But it's just my particular I never know how you.

5:24 Don't like to make an excuses. It's okay if it just always feel bad when you went through the effort, and I always want to be like ten. Out of ten. It was the best waffle I ever had. It's okay, but I would I would give it a six out of ten. What would you rate it? I'd give it like a seven out of ten. I just like waffles, and that was a you know, an average waffle for me. Okay, good to know. Today we are going to tell the story of Melissa and Christopher Wolfenbarger. This was a recommendation from Carrie. Thank you Carrie for the recommendation. Carrie with a K. I do have to give a content warning. There's some disturbing content in today's episode. It includes discussion of domestic violence, discovery of dismembered human remains, and the death of a newborn infant, So please listen with care. Melissa don Patten spent most of her life trying to find some version of safety from the outside Melissa could seem unremarkable, quiet, shy, gentle.

6:17 She loved animals, tried to stay out of trouble, and didn't draw too much attention to herself. But beneath that surface was a childhood shaped by neglect, trauma, and secrets that no child should ever have to carry. As a teenager, Melissa did what many people in painful situations do. She looked for a way out. She married young and became a mother almost immediately, hoping that starting her own family would bring the stability and care that she had always lacked. Instead, her life grew more complicated. There were financial struggles, legal trouble, and a marriage that became increasingly volatile and frightening. By her early twenties, Melissa was working long hours, leaning on coworkers for support, and quietly making play to leave. She talked about a future that didn't include the man that she was married to, and then, in late nineteen ninety eight, Melissa disappeared. What followed was not a clear investigation or a swift search for answers. It was years of silence and missed opportunities. For a long time, the only people asking where Melissa was were the ones who loved her.

7:22 This is Melissa's story and the long, uncertain effort to understand what happened to her. Well, so far, Melissa's story sounds very familiar. So many of the stories we tell are about young people who want to leave their dysfunctional families behind, and they hope that they're going to rebuild a better, stronger, happier family. Right A lot so we faced with their own traumas. Absolutely, it's an all too common theme. Melissa Dawn Patten was born in September nineteen seventy seven to Carl and Norma Patten. She was the second child in the family. Her older sister, Tina, was seven years her senior. The Patent girls grew up in a series of homes outside Atlanta, Georgia.

8:02 From an early age, the sisters were very different. Tina was described as more like her father, strong willed, stubborn, and rebellious. Melissa, by contrast, was her polar opposite. She was quiet, shy, and deeply trusting. She was often described as a mama's girl and had a particular love for animals of all kinds, dogs, cats, rabbits. It didn't matter at school, Melissa did well academically, she earned good grades and participated in extracurricular activities, including dance lessons and baton twirling. Teachers and neighbors saw her as a well behaved child with a bright future out of her. Years later, Norma Patten would describe Melissa's childhood as largely normal and functional.

8:45 She said Carl had a good relationship with both of his daughters, recalling moments when he took Melissa fishing. One story she shared involved Carl catching a turtle, which startled Melissa so badly it nearly scared her out of the boat. In Norma's telling, these these were the kinds of memories that defined their family life. But while there may have been moments of normalcy, the reality of Melissa's childhood appear as far darker. According to a childhood friend, Melissa and Tina were frequently locked inside their bedrooms, with the locks on the doors reversed so they could only be opened from the outside. That same friend described the Patent home as foul and dirty, to the point that Melissa's hair and clothes often carried the smell of the house. At school, other children noticed Melissa was bullied and teased because of her appearance and the odors that clung to her clothing.

9:36 As she got older, she would tell friends that her parents were bad people. When she later became a mother herself, she was adamant about keeping her own children as far away from her parents as possible. Around the age of thirteen, Melissa experienced an event that would traumatize her for life. While going through a clothes hamper in the home, she discovered the body of a newborn baby. Oh my god. The child had been secretly delivered by her sister, Tina, who would have been around twenty years old at the time, and hidden in the hamper. Melissa reported the discovery to officials at her school, which led to Tina's arrest and prosecution. Details surrounding the case are scarce. It remains unclear whether the baby had been alive at birth, and I was unable to determine whether Tina ultimately faced any legal consequences.

10:26 That is heartbreaking. Is it really a horrific story? And for Melissa to find I know. When she was only what thirteen years old, that's just really traumatizing. What is clear is the impact this discovery had on Melissa. The trauma compounded what was already an unstable and neglectful environment. After this incident, she began running away from home regularly, desperate to escape the chaos and dysfunction that defined her family life. Just a couple of years later, when Melissa was a freshman in high school, she met Christopher Wolfenbarger, a meeting that would give her yet another reason to run away from home. Christopher Wolfenbarger was born into a family with deep roots in the Atlanta area. On his mother's side, his grandparents owned at least three duplexes on Brookline Street, just off Avon Avenue. Several members of Christopher's extended family lived in those properties, and he spent much of his childhood and teenage years in that neighborhood. He was often outside hanging out, playing sports, and roaming the streets with other kids from the area. Christopher's parents were Kathy and Allen Wolfenbarger. He had an older sister named Kimberly, more commonly known as Kitty.

11:37 Christopher was close in age to Melissa Patten, likely just a few months older. Christopher and Melissa met when they were about sixteen. From the very beginning their relationship was controversial. Melissa's mother, Norma Patten later said she despised Christopher almost immediately. She claimed from their first meeting she saw what she described as a meanness in his lifn. Not sure if it's quite fair to judge someone just on what you see a look in their eyes. But she really did not like Christopher. But we don't like Norma though. She's not a very nice person, right. Norma is not a good person, And to be honest, there are not a lot of good people in this story. Oh okay, Well, what happens in this situation if Melissa is finding someone to and I know that Christopher is probably right. He's probably not a good person either, because you've already said that. But of course Norma's not going to like her if he makes Melissa happy or it gives her a reason to leave the house.

12:32 Yeah, exactly. Norma believe Christopher was a bad influence on Melissa and accused him of encouraging her to run away from home multiple times. But given what we know about Melissa's upbringing, it's equally possible that Christopher represented an escape, a way out of a household mark by neglect, instability, and trauma. Melissa may not have needed much convincing In December nineteen ninety four, shortly after Melissa turned seventeen, she and Christopher ran away together. They stole Carl Patten's car and fled to Oklahoma. According to accounts later shared by Norma, the pair ended up in a high speed chase, with police reportedly driving up to one hundred and twenty miles per hour on the wrong side of the interstate with their lights off. They managed to evade police for a time before eventually running off the road and crashing into a bowl.

13:23 That's that's the way the story goes. I think in Oklahoma there's probably a lot of bulls like standing on the side. Of the dinners. I mean, there wasn't Illinois. Too, But I never never crashed into one. I never crashed into one. When the police finally caught up, well, was the bull? Okay, let's hope so okay? Well, when the police finally caught up with them, Norma claimed that Christopher laughed at the officer who arrested them. That moment, she said, perfectly captured his attitude, reckless, arrogant, and seemingly unafraid of consequences. Melissa's father, Carl Patten, was widely known as a man with a violent temper. People were afraid of him, and for good reason, as we'll get into later. Against that backdrop, the fact that Christophers told Carl his car on at least two occasions speak to just how brazen he was. Yet, for reasons that are still difficult to understand, Carl appeared to tolerate Christopher. At one point, he even employed him in his roofing business. Not long after the Oklahoma incident, Melissa discovered she was pregnant. According to Norma, Melissa had been telling Christopher she was on birth control, but in reality, she had stopped taking it because she wanted to get pregnant. In February nineteen ninety five, Melissa and Christopher got married. Melissa moved out of her parents home and into a duplex with Christopher in East Point, Georgia.

14:43 Both of them were just seventeen years old. I'll post pictures of them. I found a picture from shortly after they had their first baby, and they looked like little kids. Yeah, they really do. In August nineteen ninety five, Melissa gave birth to a baby girl. They named Christina Marie Wolfenbarger, which is kind of my name, so that's kind of weird for the Just a few months later, Melissa became pregnant again. Less than eleven months after Christina's birth, she delivered a son. They named him Joseph alan Xander Wolfenbarger. Two kids eleven months apart, came. Out a lot of work, that is, and they're like, you know, nineteen at eighteen. At this point, as you might expect, not all was rosy and Melissa and Christopher's marriage.

15:28 By the time they were eighteen years old, they already had two young children. The pressure on the relationship was immense. From the start. The couple was also dealing with ongoing legal trouble. Both Melissa and Christopher were frequently in trouble with the law for a variety of incidents. Christopher would later describe their early years together as something akin to Bonnie and Clyde. He openly acknowledged that they were small time criminals, though he insisted they never did anything he considered truly serious beyond the theft of Carl Patten's car, which happened at least twice. Both were arrested multiple times for non felony offenses, including shoplifting and fighting. In late nineteen ninety six, Melissa herself was arrested for car theft.

16:11 The following year, she was placed on probation. I mean, so these two their kids themselves, They're trying to raise two kids, and they probably don't have two nickels to rub together, and they're just desperate, right, Not that that excuses their crimes. Still, it wasn't out of anything other than absolute necessity. I'm guessing, right, I believe you're right. Yes. Melissa soon violated the terms of that probation. She failed to attend require ged classes, did not complete her assigned community service, and repeatedly failed to report to her probation officer. As a result, she was sentenced to thirty days in jail. Around the same period, Melissa made a decision regarding her children.

16:53 Wanting to keep them. Away from her own parents, she voluntarily granted temporary custody to Christopher's mother, Wolfenbarger. At that same time, there was a growing and increasingly visible pattern of domestic violence within her marriage. Family members and neighbors began to notice signs that Melissa was being abused. Her sister Tina, who worked alongside her at the local waffle house, recalled seeing Melissa one day with red handprints around her neck. A neighbor later described seeing Melissa with a black eye and said that screaming, shouting, and the sound of breaking glass were common occurrences coming from the home. The situation escalated in July nineteen ninety eight. Following a violent altercation, Melissa filed for a temporary protective order against Christopher and her filing, she stated that he had knocked her to the ground and dragged her by the hair along a sidewalk, causing extensive abrasions across her back. When the case came before a judge, Christopher requested a private conversation with Melissa. After speaking with him alone, Melissa returned to court and asked that the charges be dismissed. However, if the judge declined to dismiss the charges, despite that, Melissa left the courthouse with Christopher and returned home with him.

18:08 So a couple of things to talk about here. One is this is just so sad. Melissa goes from, you know, growing up in this really dysfunctional household that was really just not a great situation, and she goes into this relationship which turns out to be really bad as well. And then the judge. What. I don't know details about this court hearing other than that Christopher asked to talk to her alone and the judge allowed it, which to me seems crazy. Like she is in there seeking a temporary protective order and you're going to allow her to Christopher to talk to her alone. Just doesn't make any sense to me. Well, you can't really blame the judge because likely they would have ended up back together anyway. Yeah, and at least the judge.

18:49 Didn't allow her to dismiss the charges right. In the months leading up to Melissa's disappearance later in nineteen ninety eight, the marriage had effectively unraveled. She spent lefe less time at the couple's residence on Brookline Street, and more time in Doraville, where she was working double shifts at the waffle house. During this period, Melissa began an affair with a co worker named Thomas Dixon. To avoid Christopher, she would sometimes stay in hotels with him. According to her sister Tina, Melissa was no longer wavering. She was actively making plans to leave Christopher for good. Do you know if her kids were in a happy, safe environment. I believe they were well cared for. They were staying with Christopher's mom at this point, and from everything I've read, she did a good job with the kids.

19:35 It was a more stable environment than they would have had with. Their Absolutely a more stable environment. We'll be back after a break. The exact date of Melissa's disappearance has never been firmly established. According to her mother, Norma, the last time she saw Melissa in person was on November ninth, nineteen ninety eight. That was the day that Melissa was released from the Decalb County Jail after serving thirty days for violating her probation. Norma later said that Melissa told the judge that day that she was pregnant. The last confirmed conversation between Melissa and her parents occurred on Thanksgiving Day, November twenty sixth, nineteen ninety eight. During that phone call, Melissa told her mother that she had been searching for a photograph of herself with her grandfather, Carl's father. Norma told her that she had found one taken when Melissa was about five or six years old. She had enlarged it to an eight x ten and wrapped it, intending to give it to Melissa as a Christmas gift, she never got the chance. That Thanksgiving phone call was the last time Norma ever spoke to her daughter. In early December, Christipher appeared unexpectedly at the waffle house where Melissa was working.

20:49 At the time, Melissa had been staying with her coworker and lover, Thomas Dixon. Christopher stormed into the restaurant to confront them both. Thomas took Christopher outside to talk while Melissa remained inside, breaking down in tears. After a period of time, Melissa went outside, she left the restaurant with Christopher. She never returned to work after that day, and Thomas Dixon never saw or heard from her again. In the months and years that followed, Christopher would give conflicting accounts of the last time he saw his wife. In one version, he claimed that Melissa woke up in the middle of the night sometime in December and told him that she was leaving to start a new life in California. In another account, he said that he personally drove her to a Marta transit station and dropped her off so that she could travel to California.

21:37 I don't know if you can see me over here rolling my eyes, but I could feel it with so many men use this, So I dropped her off at the train station, or she left to start a new life. It's just such bs. Well in the fact that he used two totally different accounts too. She woke up in the middle of the night and left and then I don't know how far apart these accounts were. But yeah, it's inconsistent too, So it just doesn't It doesn't make any sense. And she wasn't even staying with him anymore though, was she? Well, she had left with him from the waffle house that day when he confronted her in the waffle house. She went home with him that day, so I think she was staying with him. I don't know the timeline exactly. Did she really go home with him? We don't really have the date said the timeline, so it's hard to say. And Thomas did he care that Christopher came and got her?

22:21 Was was he serious about Melissa? You know, I don't know the answer to that. It's a great question. According to Christopher, the idea of going to California wasn't something that was new. He said that he and Melissa had often talked about their shared dream of moving there together. This time he claimed Melissa had simply decided to go on her own. Christopher Wolfenbarger did not appear to see a reason to inform anyone that Melissa was gone. He never reached out to her family, He never reported her missing to the police. He didn't check local hospitals or jails. When a neighbor eventually asked about Melissa after not seeing her for some time, Christopher told her that Melissa had left him. Beyond that, she said nothing.

23:01 Well, she probably had no money, right, and she was probably still on probationion, right, so she would not have left the state in all likelihood. Yeah, and she didn't even own a car at this point. As Christmas approached and then passed with no word from Melissa, her family began to worry. Despite her strained and often tumultuous relationship with her parents, it was unlike Melissa to go through the holidays without calling or stopping by. Even then, they weren't immediately panicked. Melissa's life had always been chaotic. She didn't have a car, she didn't have a cell phone, She was often out of touch for lengthy periods of time. Her family tried to hold on to the possibility that she was alive and simply staying with friends somewhere. But February came, and on February twenty fourth, Norma's birthday, there was still no contact. Melissa never forgot her mother's birthday.

23:52 By then, her family was convinced that something was wrong. That is sad that it took them so long to notice that she was missing. It is incredibly sad, and it's going to get even sadder with Christopher not returning their calls, the family decided to drive to the Brookline Street home in February. When they arrived, the house was abandoned. A neighbor told them that Christopher and the children had moved out sometime between Christmas and New Year's That same neighbor also told them where Christopher had been working, Action Glass company on Avon Avenue. The family went there next, only to learn from the owner that Christopher had been fired in early February. The reason, they were told was a hit and run accident involving a company truck. Unable to find any answers, Norma finally went to the police. She was first told by the Henry County Police Department that the matter fell under the jurisdiction of the Atlanta Police Department. When she contacted Atlanta Police, she was told that Melissa was an adult twenty one years old with her own life. If she had chosen to leave and not stay in contact with her family, that was her right. No reports of suspicious or criminal as activity had come from our neighborhood, and as a result, police said there was nothing they could do. I told you it was going to get sadder. Nobody seemed to care that this young woman was missing.

25:11 Do you think that had something to do with her having a criminal record. I don't know. I suppose it's possible, But it also just seems like the police deferred to the husband, and we're just like, well, the husband hasn't reported or missing, so I don't understand it. I don't understand how this could happen, and no one could really look into this at all. Seems like sometimes the police view certain people as disposable. I think that is a fair comment, and it's really really sad. In March nineteen ninety nine, the court formally dismissed the pending battery charge against Christopher stemming from the incident in which he had allegedly dragged Melissa down a sidewalk by her hair. The reason given was simple, authorities were unable to locate the victim. Before I go on, I just want to repeat the content warning that I gave at the top of the episode. This next section is going to be disturbing. On April twenty ninth, nineteen ninety nine, a gruesome discovery was made along Avon Avenue.

26:08 A man walking home from the bank saw what looked like a human head lying in the road. He used a stick to move it off the road and then went and called nine to one one. They confirmed that the object was exactly what it appeared to be, a human head. Nearby was a torn black trash bag. The head was badly decomposed, with very little flesh remaining. The medical examiner later determined that it had been doused in bleach and that all the hair had been deliberately cut away. The cut through the spine showed clear evidence of having been made with a mechanical saw, such as a circular saw or a reciprocating saw. That is so devastating it's incredibly disturbing. Yes, the head belonged to Melissa Patten. However, due to its advanced state of decomposition, it was misidentified as the head of a white male because Melissa that had never been officially reported missing, and because of the misidentification, no one made the connection. It would be years before the dots were finally connected.

27:10 You're kidding me, that's horrible. Just over a month later, on June ninth, nineteen ninety nine, another disturbing discovery was made in the same area, approximately fifty feet from where the head had been found. Investigators located additional human remains in a wooded area behind a junkyard along Avon Avenue. This time it was two arms and two legs, double wrapped in black trash bags. As with the head, the bones showed markings consistent with having been cut using a mechanical saw. Despite further searches of the surrounding area, the victim's torso was never recovered. The medical examiner was unable to determine a definitive cause of death.

27:50 There were no injuries to the skull prior to death, no gunshot wounds, no facial fractures, and no obvious signs of blunt forest trauma. The dismemberment itself was determined to have occurred after. Death, so no one pieced together this missing these missing body parts with Melissa's disappearance. No, not for many years. As we'll see. So Melissa has been missing for six months. Has her family given up hope? Are they still looking for her? They were still looking for her. But in this case, the police identified this body, the body parts that they found as belonging to a man, and so I think it just did not. So even when the limbs were found, they still thought it was a man. Yea, as far as I know, I don't know what condition the limbs were in. They were found in April, so this would have been four months after Melissa disappeared.

28:36 My point was, though, in general, if you take my hand in your hand, you'll know you know ruch's male and which is female. But you're right, I didn't think about that. In June nineteen ninety nine, investigators unveiled a wax reconstruction of the head based on the skull that they found, with hopes that it could aid in identifying the victim. I'll post a picture of this reconstruction. Again, they were thinking it was a man at the time. But this reconstruction looks absolutely nothing like Melissa. It doesn't do any It probably was more harmful than helpful. That's crazy. Remember back to the John List case when they did like a recreation of his Yeah idea remever that and it.

29:18 Was crazy because it looked exactly really good. Yeah. The location of the remains was notable, though once again the significance would not be recognized until much later. Avon Avenue was also home to Action Glass, the company where Christopher Wolfenbarger had worked at the time of Melissa's disappearance until he was fired in early February nineteen ninety nine. The head was found approximately one hundred and twenty feet from the entrance to Action Glass. The arms and legs were discovered about fifty feet beyond that. The disposal site was also less than a mile from the Brookline Street home where Melissa and Christopher had lived together. So once again, it's just shocking to me that no one may the connection.

30:00 Here's a guy whose wife vanished months earlier. Body parts are found right by his workplace, like literally within sight of his workplace. But this is in Atlanta, It's not like it's in Dexter, Michigan. That is true, and I have also read I looked on Google Maps at Avon Avenue where this occurred. It's a pretty dingy area, and I have read that part or other bodies had been found along that road before, so it's a really bad area. The investigation into the dismembered body parts quickly went cold. At the time, the victim had not been identified beyond the assumption that the remains belonged to a white male, and investigators were left with the very few usable leads.

30:42 Compounding the problem, there had never been a formal investigation into Melissa's disappearance. The only people actively thinking about her were her family, who were convinced something terrible had happened, but had no answers and nowhere to turn. It would take an extraordinary and deeply unset up development for the connection to finally be made. In two thousand and. Three, authorities discovered that Melissa's father, Carl Patten, was a serial killer and that her mother, Norma Patten, had helped him dispose of the victim's bodies. Yes, that is exactly what happened. You don't shock me that often in the middle of a script, but I don't write. Out the look on the look on your face was said everything.

31:25 Yeah, I mean, what a shocking Listeners are probably yelling at me because they probably already know the name Carl Patten, but I really don't know. So the stories stretched back decades. In the nineteen seventies, a series of bodies began turning up in and around the Flint River, roughly fifteen miles south of Atlanta. The first was discovered in nineteen seventy three. The victim was named Richard Jackson. His body was found dumped beside a road, riddled with gunshot wounds. One of the early suspects in Jackson's murder was Fred Wyatt, a man with a violent reputation who had spent twenty years in prison for robbery, cartheft, and other crimes. While police continued to investigate Jackson's killing, the case took another disturbing turn in October nineteen seventy seven, Fred Wyatt's girlfriend, Betty Joe Efflin, disappeared. The following month, in November, Wyatt himself was found dead inside his Volkswagon. His death appeared to be the result of a collision with a train and was initially ruled accidental. Then in December nineteen seventy seven, another body was discovered in the Flint River. The victim was a woman named Lyddy Evans. She had been shot in both the stomach and the head. Her body had been placed inside a sleeping bag, bound with rope and weighed down with concrete blocks. Investigators believed she had been in.

32:49 The river for a few days. As police searched the area, they made an even more disturbing discovery. Another body was recovered from the river, that of betty Ja Joe Efflin, the woman who had vanished two months earlier. She had been shot twice in the head, execution style, bound with rope, and weighed down with concrete blocks. Based on the condition of her remains, investigators concluded that she had likely been in the river since October, shortly after her disappearance. At this point, we have four victims altogether. Just to I know, there's a lot of names that we've been throwing at you here, but just to kind of try to keep it straight. So four people, and they all seem to be killed in a somewhat similar manner. Yeah, and the second person who was killed or found or found was a suspect in the first murder. So there these people are actually connected to each other somehow.

33:39 At that point, investigators concluded they were dealing with a serial killer. The unknown suspect was labeled as the Flint River Killer. Lyddy Evans had been living with a man named Joseph Cleveland, who quickly became a person of interest in her murder, but Cleveland vanished as well. At first, police believed he had fled the area. An a April nineteen seventy eight, his body was found in a different river. Like the others, he had been shot in the head, wrapped in chains and weighed down with concrete blocks. Carl Patten had long been on investigator's radar. He was known to be a close friend of Joseph Cleveland, and the two men had frequently been seen together. During the investigation, police also found bloodstains in the trunk of Carl's car that matched Lyddy Evans. The victims were all connected in some way, but despite years of suspicion, investigators never had enough evidence to make an arrest. That finally changed decades later.

34:36 In two thousand and two, the cold case was reopened with the goal of applying modern DNA testing techniques. Those tests conclusively pointed to Carl Patten, and in February two thousand and three he was arrested. Wow, that is crazy. It's quite a turn, isn't it. Yeah, had Carl had like why was he suspect? Did he have a He was connected with a lot of these people as well. So, like I said, these people, I don't have all the details of their relationships, but he knew like he was friends with Joseph Cleveland, the last victim, They were very close. He also was somehow connected. He knew people that knew the other victims, so he was part of that same group. And so I think he was considered a suspect early on, but it just didn't feel like they ever had enough to make an arrest.

35:24 Realizing that the case had finally caught up with them, both Karl and Norma Patten confessed and agreed to cooperate with authorities. Norma moved quickly to protect herself. She struck a deal. With prosecutors, agreeing to testify against her husband in exchange for immunity from prosecution and her confession. Norma admitted that she had actively helped Carl after the murders, mopping up blood bleaching floors and assisting in wrapping up the bodies. Before Karl disposed of them. Wow, what a couple. Carl also confessed to the killings, though he rejected the label serial killer. Insisted that the murders had all been committed for specific reasons, arguing that he was not like a typical serial killer who killed for pleasure or targeted a certain type of victim. According to Carl, the first murder, Richard Jackson, had been a paid hit. He claimed that Jackson's first wife hired both him and Joseph Cleveland to carry it out. Several years later, Carl said the same woman paid Patten and Cleveland again, this time to kill Fred Wyatt and Wyatt's girlfriend, Betty Joe Efflin. At that point, the woman was married to Wyatt and was furious when he left her for Efland.

36:35 I believe this woman had passed away by the time that they finally made all these connections, so she did not serve any time for this. So. Karl went on to explain that he later became concerned that his accomplice, Joseph Cleveland, was talking too openly about their crimes. Fearing exposure, Carl decided to kill Cleveland. He also murdered Cleveland's girlfriend, Lyddy Evans, to eliminate another potential witness. The man who arrested Carl was Lieutenant Colonel Bruce Jordan of the Fayette County Sheriff's Department. Carl reportedly respected Jordan, leaving him to be a fair man and a skilled investigator, skilled enough, in Carl's view, to finally identify him as the Flint River Killer. With that in mind, Carl decided to make a request. He asked Jordan if he would look into the disappearance of his daughter Melissa. After hearing what Carl had to say, Jordan agreed to take a look.

37:30 Sure to his word, Jordan began by reviewing files related to unidentified human remains found near locations where Melissa had lived prior to her disappearance. That review quickly led him to the severed head and limbs discovered along Avon Avenue in nineteen ninety nine, not far from Action Glass, where Christopher Wolfenbarger had worked until February of that year. Jordan obtained Melissa's dental records and arranged for an expert comparison with a recovered skull in March two thousand three, four and a half years after she vanished. The remains were officially identified as Melissa Wolfenbarger's. Four and a half years before the family had closure.

38:10 Well, at any point did you think, when you found out that Carl was a serial killer, that he and Norma could have had something to do with her disappearance? And I think authorities thought that at first as well. We'll talk about that after the break, but yeah, that was not the case. We'll be back after a break. Once Melissa's remains were finally identified, investigators were forced to confront an uncomfortable question. Given that Carl Patten had confessed to killing at least five people, could he have also been responsible for his daughter's death. Initially, that possibility was considered, but Carl's reaction to the identification of Melissa's remains gave detectives pause. He was visibly devastated by the news. More importantly, both Karl and Norma were the only ones pressing investigators to pursue Melissa's disappearance and murder. They were not trying to deflect attention. They were actively pushing for answers. Attention shifted to Christopher Wolfenbarger. Melissa's remains have been found in close proximity to his workplace. Investigators were well aware of the volatility of the marriage, the documented domestic violence, and the abuse that Melissa had suffered at Christopher's hands. Detectives revisited old police reports and uncovered the temporary protective order that Melissa had filed against Christopher in mid nineteen ninety eight.

39:36 They also conducted a search of the couple's former residence on Brookline Street. Using luminol. The investigators looked for traces of blood. They collected paint and fiber samples in hopes of finding forensic evidence that might link the home to Melissa's death. None was found. There was no blood evidence and nothing recovered from the house that directly tied Melissa's murder to the residence. I know forensic evidence lasts a long time, but this is four and a half five years after her disappearance, and I wonder how likely it would have been for them to find something in that house, even if she had been killed there. I think it happens all the time, though you'd be surprised, especially people who aren't really great at cleaning or live a chaotic life.

40:17 Well, we don't know who lived there from because Christopher moved out just two weeks after her disappearance, so I don't know who lived there, but yeah, I know that kind of thing can last a long long time. Investigators then turned their attention back to Action Glass. When they spoke with the owner, they learned something that caught their interest. Christopher had been suspected of stealing a reciprocating saw from the company. Although he strongly denied taking it, the suspicion had played a role in his termination in early nineteen ninety nine. Given the nature of Melissa's dismemberment, the missing saw stood out. But once again, the evidence against Christopher was entirely circumstantial. There were no witnesses, no forensic links, and no confession. With no new leads and no solid proof, the case stalled once more and went cold. Meanwhile, Carl Patten's own criminal cases moved forward. He pleaded guilty to five murders in three separate trials held across the jurisdictions where the victim's bodies had been recovered. He was ultimately sentenced to five consecutive life terms in prison. At his sentencing, he apologized, saying if I could undo it, I would.

41:25 It's been a long time coming and I'm sorry. That statement drew jeers from the family members of his victims. Arnold Evans, the son of Lyddy Evans, said if he was sorry, he would have turned himself in a long time ago. He needs to rot in hell for what he did to my mother. As Melissa and Christopher's daughter, Christina, got older, she became increasingly frustrated by how little she knew about her mother and by how difficult it was to get answers. Although she was primarily raised by Christopher's parents, Christina did live with her father for a brief period during her late teens. During that time, she tried repeatedly to ask him about Melissa and what had happened to her. She got nowhere. Christina later said, I'd ask my dad and he would tell me a different story every time, or he would just get mad. None of it made sense.

42:14 That's when I decided to start looking into it myself. While scrolling through Facebook one day, Christina saw her mother's name appear as a people you may know suggestion. The profile turned out to be one created by Melissa's family to share information about her disappearance and case. Eighteen years old at the time, Christina decided to reach out to Norma and Tina. From their first meeting, Christina felt an immediate connection to her grandmother and aunt. She said, I had so many questions on my own theories about what happened. It turned out theirs were the same as mine. From that point forward, Christina, Norma, and Tina grew close together. They committed themselves to finding answers and continuing the fight for justice for Melissa.

42:58 So for the first eighteen years of her life she didn't have a relationship with them. It sounds like. No, not at all. And you can't really blame Christopher's mother either. Here's Norma as a convicted you convicted accessory to murder, so she would obviously farwing. Absolutely, But several more years would pass before Melissa's murder investigation was meaningfully revived, still searching for answers. In twenty seventeen, Norma Patton attended a wine and Crime event where she approached the event's keynote speaker, Cheryl McCullum. McCullum was the director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, which she had founded after a twenty year career in law enforcement.

43:38 The institute operates as a collaborative effort with colleges and universities across the country, bringing together thousands of students, researchers, and experts who volunteer their time to help solve cold cases. Norma asked McCollum for help, but she was upfront from the start. She told McCullum about the murders her husband was serving time for, as well as her own role in helping cover them up. McCollum agreed to take the case anyway. She later explained that the sins of the parents had nothing to do with Melissa. Melissa deserved justice just like any other victim. Cheryl McCollum began a deep dive into the case, working through stacks of binders that Norma had kept over the years, filled with reports, notes, and correspondents related to Melissa's disappearance and death. In twenty twenty one, Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis launched a cold case division and appointed McCullum to serve on the task force. McCollum immediately pushed for a renewed review of Melissa's case. She walked officials through the crime scene, organized additional searches for evidence, and brought in high profile experts, including Nancy Grace and forensic pathologist Joseph Scott Morgan to review the case file. In twenty twenty two, McCollum dedicated nine episodes of her podcast Zoned seven to Melissa's store worry.

45:00 Both Norma and Tina appeared on the podcast, and Carl Patten wrote letters to McCollum from prison, and those letters, Carl reflected on how losing his own daughter to violent crime had forced him to finally understand the depth of the pain he had inflicted on others. He also expressed. Guilt, writing that he felt that he had failed Melissa by not being able to protect her. The podcast significantly raised the profile of the case. One listener contacted McCollum with a tip about troubling behavior they had witnessed between Christopher and Melissa. McCullum passed the information along to law enforcement, adding another piece to the growing body of circumstantial evidence.

45:41 Investigators also tracked down several people connected to Melissa's final months, including Thomas Dixon, the coworker that she had been seeing shortly before her disappearance. Dixon recounted the December nineteen ninety eight incident at waffle house, describing how Christopher had confronted Melissa there and how she had been left hysterical afterward. Authorities also spoke with Melissa and Christopher's children, Christina and Joey, who were now in their mid twenties. They shared deeply unsettling memories. About their father. Both described occasions when Christopher made disturbing comments about how to get away with murder. One such moment occurred when they were discussing a true crime television show they'd watched together.

46:24 Christopher criticized the killer's disposal methods, saying it was not the way they should have done it. He then explained what he believed would be a better reproach, hiding a body beneath the foundation of a house under construction so that concrete would be poured over the next morning, ensuring the body would never be found. He also told his daughter that he had a plan a place if authorities ever came looking for him. Oh boy, that's a lot of stuff stacking up there. The children further described how their father had effectively erased. Their mother from their lives. All of Melissa's belongings were removed from the house, potographs disappeared. When the children asked questions about her, Christopher would respond by sitting in silence, refusing to answer. They were largely raised by Christopher's parents, and for a time even believed that their grandparents were actually their biological parents. Around this time, Christopher spoke to Dateline. He said, yeah, I have a criminal history, but I'm not a murderer. He said, melissa disappearance at the end of nineteen ninety eight wasn't anything out of the ordinary. Quote, We're not talking about one day she was there and the next day she was not.

47:31 I just figured she'd come back when she was able to. As part of the renewed investigation, additional DNA testing was performed on black trash bags that had contained Melissa's remains. Five different contributors were identified. Christopher voluntarily provided a DNA sample and was excluded as a match to any of the five contributors. What do you think of that. I mean, these trash bags had been out in the street and in the woods by the side of the street, so I'm sure they had a lot a lot of DNA on them. It's frustrated because if his DNA had been found, it would have then been a little bit more of a slam dunk. Despite the lack of a DNA match, the district attorney presented the case to a grand jury. The grand jury voted to indict Christopher on charges of murder and felony murder.

48:17 On August sixth, twenty twenty four, authorities went to Christopher's residence to make the arrest. He was nowhere to be found. A canine unit was brought in and after a forty minute search, Christopher was discovered hiding in a makeshift crawl space behind a wine wrack and a dryer in his garage. Carl Patten lived long enough to see an arrestmate in his daughter's murder. He did not live to see the case go to trial. Carl died in prison on December sixteenth, twenty twenty four, at age seventy five. Norma had stuck with him during this time in prison, remaining married and visiting him regularly. If you murder five people, I'm out. Yeah, I don't. I wouldn't blame you. The State of Georgia versus Christopher wilf Barger went to trial in August twenty twenty five. Melissa's sister Tina had high hopes. She posted on Facebook, Finally we are starting the trial that we have been waiting twenty six years for. From the outset, the prosecution acknowledged that their case was built almost entirely uncircumstantial evidence. Their goal was to show that Christopher had the motive, the opportunity, and the means to murder Melissa, even in the absence of direct forensic proof. Prosecutors highlighted several key pieces of evidence. First was geographic proximity. Melissa's severed head and dismembered limbs had been found in nineteen ninety nine along Avon Avenue, directly outside the Action Glass facility where Christopher was working at the time. Next was the issue of the missing saw. Christopher had been suspected by his employer of stealing a reciprocating saw around the

49:50 time that Melissa vanished. Given the medical examiner's findings that a mechanical saw had been used to dismember the body, the prosecution argued this was significant. They also presented what they characterized as incriminating statements. Christopher's children testified about comments their father had made while watching true crime television shows, including critiquing the methods used to dispose of bodies and explaining what he believed would be a more effective way to avoid detection. The state also walked the jury through the history of domestic violence in the marriage. This included the July nineteen ninety eight incident in which Christopher allegedly knocked Melissa down and dragged her by the hair, an event that led her to seek a temporary protective order. Finally, prosecutors pointed to Christopher's behavior after Melissa vanished. He never reported her missing, he didn't alert her family, and when authorities came to arrest him decades later, they found him hiding inside his home. Taken together, the state argued these actions suggested a consciousness of guilt. As for motive, the prosecution advanced the theory that Melissa may have been pregnant at the time of her death. As we mentioned, Norma Patten testified that Melissa told the judge she was pregnant when she was released from jail in November nineteen ninety eight.

51:05 Prosecutors suggested that the prospect of another child could have triggered violence, either due to financial stress or because Christopher may have believed that the baby wasn't his. The pregnancy theory was also used to explain the absence of Melissa's torso. Prosecutors argued that her torso could have provided definitive proof of pregnancy, and that this may have led Christopher to take extra steps to conceal or destroy it. Despite these arguments, the prosecution faced serious challenges. There was no physical evidence linking Christopher to the remains or disposal sites, no DNA, no blood, no fibers. In fact, modern DNA testing conducted on the black trash bags used to dispose of the body parts excluded Christopher as one of the contributors. The background of Melissa's family also complicated the state's case. The fact that her father was a convicted serial killer gave the defense a ready alternate suspect. Prosecutors were forced to spend time explaining why Karl had been ruled out. The handling of the original investigation was another major obstacle. Melissa had never been officially reported missing. Her skull had initially been misidentified as belonging to a male, delaying identification for years.

52:19 During the trial, a former detective testified about evidence he remembered that was no longer in the case file. Several police reports appeared to be missing, prompting the defense to move for a mistrial. That motion was ultimately denied. The defense focused squarely on what they described as the gaping holes in the state's case. They acknowledged that Christopher was guilty of domestic violence, but emphasized that this was a murder trial. The defense pointed to the lack of forensic evidence and argued that suspicion alone was not enough to convict. They highlighted multiple alternative suspects, including Karl and Norma Patten, as well as a family associate who they claimed harbored resentment toward the past and family and may have had a motive for revenge. Defense attorneys also highlighted the results of the luminal testing conducted of the Brookline Street home years after Melissa's disappearance. No traces of blood were found, and none of the paint chips or fiber samples recovered matched anything from the house. They further challenged the credibility of key prosecution witnesses by highlighting their criminal histories. Melissa's sister, Tina, had prior convictions related to methamphetamine possession in the twenty twenties.

53:30 Thomas Dixon, who had been romantically involved with the Melissa at the time of her disappearance, was a convicted bank robber. And then there was Norma Patten herself and admitted accessory to multiple murders. Her testimony spanned two days and formed a cornerstone of the prosecution's case. She spoke about Melissa's childhood, her early impressions of Christopher, and the abuse that she believed her daughter had suffered. The defense argued that her credibility was irreparably compromised. Christopher declined to test fi on his own behalf. After seven days of testimony, followed by closing arguments, the jury deliberated for just two hours. What do you believe their verdict is.

54:10 I'm going to say not guilty. Mostly because of the criminal history of her parents. I believe that that is a lot of reasonable doubt, but also because you kind of have a talent. If the verdict is a little bit of a surprise, you warn me not to look ahead, so I do have. A little bit of a tell. I guess although this verdict, you're right. The verdict was not guilty on both the murder and felony murder charges in this case. I don't think it's that much of a surprise, just based on the evidence that they had, but we'll talk about that in a little bit. Melissa Patten wasn't an angel. She made bad choices, She struggled, she got into trouble, she stayed in situations that were clearly harming her. But none of that changes the most basic fact in this case.

54:55 She didn't deserve what happened to her. Melissa was a real person. She was someone's daughter, someone's sister, and a mother herself only twenty one when she died. She spent much of her life trying to get away from instability and build something safer for herself and her children. Sadly, she never really got that chance. A jury heard the evidence in the case and reached the verdict they believed was required by law. They had reasonable doubts, so they found Christopher Wolfenbarger not guilty. That may be the right verdict, but it certainly hasn't delivered justice for Melissa's murder. What's impossible to ignore is how long Melissa went missing without anyone really looking, how easily her disappearance was dismissed, how many chances there were to intervene to investigate, to connect the dots, and how many of those chances were missed.

55:44 At the end of the day, this is a story about a young woman whose life ended violently and a case where no one has been held accountable for her murder. Melissa Patten mattered and she should never have been so easy to overlook. Rest in peace, Melissa. Well, before you ask me about bunch of questions, I have a question for you. Do you think that Carl's being a serial killer had something to do with her family not looking for her more aggressively or not contacting law enforcement because both he and Norma knew what he'd done, and he was probably hesitant to. Write, to go to the authorities and talk to them. It's an interesting theory. I did not get that sense. I got the sense that at least Norma was very actively trying to get people to pay attention to this.

56:29 I mean, she did go to the police, both in Henry County and in Atlanta a couple of months after Melissa disappeared, and she, as far as I could tell, she's been active or she was active ever since Melissa's disappearance and trying to bring attention to the case. We know, in so many of these cases, the parents are the true advocates for their child, and you have to be relentless sometimes and it shouldn't. Be that way. If you go missing, you should the same amount of effort should be used on every person that's missing. And that's something that we talk about all the time that we both hate. Yeah, it's just so so sad and heartbreaking. I want to ask you the obvious question, which is do you think that the jury made the right decision based on what you know? I know you didn't sit through seven days of trial, but do you believe they made the right decision? And separate question, do you believe that Christopher killed Melissa?

57:21 Yes, I believe that he killed Melissa, But I think I agree with the jury's verdict, you know, not knowing all the evidence, but it does seem like there was reasonable doubt. What do you think? Yeah, I feel the same way. I think it's most likely that he did it, just based on the history between them, the domestic abuse, the fact that he had the motive, the opportunity, the fact that her body parts were found right by where he worked. I think there's a lot of that evidence. But I also think that as a juror, I would have had a hard time convicting him just because of the lack of forensic evidence. If it weren't for Carl Enorma's criminal history, I think that I would have been more likely to convict him.

58:02 Yeah, I could see that. I'm sure that left a lot of jurors with some reasonable doubt. Right, Like, I really don't think her parents had anything to do with her disappearance or murder. But having a serial killer that closest to the victim would definitely cause one to think, well, maybe it could have been right. And literally no, I mean there's no forensic evidence indicating her family either. Yeah. What do you make of Carl suddenly becoming remorseful when his own daughter is murdered? Saying that he said that he truly didn't understand the hurt and grief he had caused with his own actions until he experienced the loss of Melissa. Do you think that he was being sincere? Oh? Yeah, absolutely, I mean I'm sure he was devastated by the loss of his daughter.

58:42 Yeah, I'm sure he was devastated too. I just it just really frustrates me when somebody has a when somebody can't empathize until it happens to them. We hear about that all the time, and it just seems like he killed five people, but he didn't really feel bad about it until it happened to him, you know, his own daughter. I think as a parent, that lot of my karma affecting my child is devastating. Do you want to elaborate on that at all? What karma are you referring to? I just mean if my bad actions reflected on my child and affected you know, got our child god Ford killed you know, I mean, how do you recover from that? The guilt of that would be on your conscience forever. Yeah, very true. We talked about it a little bit.

59:24 But what do you think about the way that the authorities handled it when Norma finally tried to report Melissa as missing, Like obviously they didn't take it seriously. I just wonder what needs to change to ensure that when someone is reported missing, even if it's not by the husband, Like, how do we fix that? Yeah, that's a good question. I wish we could fix that. It depends a lot where you go missing. You know, in Atlanta people go missing very frequently, and it's just not not taken as seriously. Right, And I'm sure I can understand sort of the initial reaction being well, she might have left, they had a troubled marriage, but at least check it out, at least track her down and ask her like, hey, did you leave? But not even trying to do that. It's just so frustrating to me.

1:00:08 This did happen over twenty years ago. And I think that we've gotten better. Yeah, I don't think we're perfect, but with just the awareness of true crime and people you know, listening to our podcast and other podcast and watching true crime shows, like, we all know how to handle these things better. And we all know that if your loved one goes missing, you have to be relentless. And it's really sad, Like you didn't say anything about community searches and a lot of times the community is integral to helping find symptoms too. Think it takes a you know, not just the family should have to look for their loved one. As a community, we all need to you know, get together. Yeah, and that's a great point. Last question for you. It seems likely at this point that there will never be justice for Melissa. Who do you think is most to blame? For the lack of justice in this case.

1:00:55 I don't want to place blame on anyone necessarily, but as a parent, I if the police didn't respond, I think that I would keep bothering them, like every day, like you know, she's still missing. Yeah, you know, I know that she didn't go to California. I think you just have to be really aggressive and you know, maybe call different police officers, like a different Yeah. Yeah, definitely you could be more aggressive. I think we would if we were in that situation. I can't imagine not demanding answers and not resting until we found those answers. But I do also wonder, you know, maybe asked a different way. Is if they had made the connection early on that the body parts that they found belonged to Melissa, I wonder how likely it would have been that they would have been able to solve the case definitively. There would have.

1:01:41 Been more evidence, right, and the DNA on the garbage bag may have belonged to Christopher at that point, they may have been able to retrieve that. Yeah, so I think there were a lot of failures. There was a failure, you know, when she was reported missing, the parents, their history was obviously had a big impact on her not getting justice, the fact that they didn't identify the remains. There's so many things, so that's why this case is just so. It is really so from it definitely deserved better. Yep. Absolutely. Before we go, I made a little waffle House trivia game for you. Oh you ready? Sure, I'm not going to do well on it, but I will give it my best shot.

1:02:22 Okay, what year was the very first waffle house opened? Is this multiple choice? Okay? Forty nine, fifty five, sixty one or seventy two. Sounds like a nineteen fifties thing. I'll go with fifty five. You are correct. Can you keep score of your right answers? Because I can't do both? Sure? How many waffle Houses locations are there today? Eight hundred and twelve hundred, two thousand or four thousand? Oh boy, I'll say two thousand. Again, you are correct. This is lightning speed. By the way, waffle House is famous for having its own disaster scale used by FEMA. What is it called the Waffle Index, the waffle House Index, the hash Brown Scale, or the Southern Survival Index. I have heard this before, and I believe it is the Waffle House index.

1:03:05 You are correct. What does a scattered, smothered, and covered mean? Waffles with powdered sugar, syrup and butter, eggs with onions and cheese, hash browns spread on the grill, topped with onions and cheese, or biscuits with gravy, sausage and eggs. Boy, that's a tough one. I'm gonna I think it's probably the hash browns. Again, you are I don't know how you know such a bunch about waffle House. Which of these is not a real waffle House hash browns style? Chunked, diced, peppered, or loaded. I'll go it chunked, no, loaded. Oh darn it, there goes that perfect score. Waffle House serves approximately how many eggs per years? Five hundred million, one billion, two billion, or three billion. I am shocked that all most of these are billions? Are you like billion?

1:03:54 That's a lot of eggs. It's a lot of chickens. Yeah, that's a lot of Okay. What did you say? I said to billion? You have redeemed yourself, sir. True or false? Waffle House has a record label true? True? What is the most ordered item at waffle House? Waffles? Bacon, hash browns or cheeseburgers. Ummm, hash browns, because that goes with a lot of different things. Correct, what is the maximum number of toppings you can order on waffle house hash browns? The maximum four? Six, eight or ten? Ummm eight? Did you did you see? No? Been a little bit of a pattern here. I'm just gonna say, like when there when it's a question like that, it's the second highest number. Like every time it's been the second highest number.

1:04:41 That's not true. Actually it's because it's not true or false. There are waffle houses that have never closed, not for hurricanes, not for blizzards, not even for Christmas. Um. I guess I'll go with true. True. Some locations are open twenty four seven, three sixty five and only close or extreme disaster conditions. And that's what people say, like in the event of an emergency, you can go to a waffle house and you'll be safe. So one more question, which state has the most waffle houses? Not multiple choice? I guess I'll go with Georgia. You were correct, Dang, you definitely in really freaking well.

1:05:23 Did you get in ninety percent? I got all that one. I don't know how many questions there were pretend. So that's well, I guess the bonus question you got right, So yeah, you are an a student sirled. What a nerd? I have read everything? Now, really I would not have done as well. Yeah those were all wild guesses pretty much. Yeah, well good for you, thank you, because so many of our friends to the south are going to have so much weather that we're used to and they're not this week. What advice do you have to take yourself to a waffle right? Well? No, I mean I think I think the best advice is staying there. What do you like to do on a snow day? I just like to stay home and watch a show or a. Movie, stand or a blanket, read a book.

1:06:04 Yeah, absolutely, And. When should people shovel? Like? That has to be something that people think about. That is something I think about very very much because there's a lot of factors to take into account. I do because there really are. And if you're going to get twenty inches of snow, right, you don't want to shovel twenty inches at No. You probably want to shovel three times or four times in there. So, yeah, you got to count on the temperatures, You got to look at when it stops snowing. Is it going to snow again. There's so many things that go into it, very complicated. I'm scared for people because of the ice. Like snow is one thing, Like you can drive in snow, it's not that scary, but the ice is super scary. So please, if you're getting ice, to stay home. Yeah, And a lot of people, unfortunately don't have that luxury of just saying I'm going to stay home today, right, if you have to go to work, it's just really scary.

1:06:51 So just yeah, be careful out there. So you're like America's dad or uncle. Or whatever you are. No, I'm not okay, go ahead, all right? Well, give everyone's some driving tips. What do you say about driving in this weather? Driving? So, the scary part in driving in snow and ice is when you have to stop or when you have to turn. If you're going straight, is not that bad, it's really not. You're not going to slide unless you're stopping or turning. Yes, exactly. So just give yourself plenty of room when you're like you're coming up to a stop later a stop sign, just lay off the gas way in advance and let yourself almost coast to a stop. Yeah, and you're coming up to a curve, same thing, Like, just slow. Down, don't worry about the people that are driving too fast behind you. If you want to go twenty miles per hour, you go twenty miles per hour.

1:07:36 Yeah, that's right. People want to be jerks and pass you let them. Yeah. Just be really careful about like breaking too fast or accelerating too fast. And if you do start like skidding, like sliding sideways, you want to steer in the direction of the skid. So if your car is starting to turn to the left, you want to turn the steering wheel to the left to try to keep it straight on the road. Right. What about Oh what about a white out though, that's a whole differ sa ball game. That is. I have no advice, just because sometimes like the road, like literally you can't see the lines. So just stay home. Just stay home if you're able to. Yes, Thank you all so much for listening. Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media, which now includes YouTube and TikTok wow, or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1:08:24 And please consider supporting us on Patreon. Go to patreon dot com. Slash Love Marykill. We only have one tier for five dollars a month for early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode and our eternal gratitude. And appreciation until next time. Don't kill your husband and don't kill your wife.

1:09:08 M Hey you, Tina, hey Rich? How are you today? Wow? Yelling at me. I didn't know you were going to make me say hi I again. Okay,