Peter Madsen and the Disappearance of Kim Wall

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Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
it's that some days you'll feel like killing

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your wife and some days you feel
like killing your husband. Welcome to love,

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Mary, Kill, Hey Rich,
Hey Tina, how are you?

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I'm pretty good in a minute,
or a little rusty at saving like three

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freaking bloopers. We've only done it
like sixty times. So it's we've done

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it sixty three times, sixty four
times. It's that's a lot of episodes.

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It's hard to believe. Almost a
year, very close. We're recording

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on Labor Day, but this episode
will be released on September eleventh. Oh

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yeah, that's right, twenty three, twenty two years and you're flying today.

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No, I'll be there already.
I'm flying on Saturday. I'll be

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by the eleventh. I should be
sitting in a cafe on a sidewalk in

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Paris, probably eating up croissant with
a little poodle, a little Bordeaux or

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something like that. But okay,
well, lofty goals. I'm really hoping

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that you bring some food back you
the last time you went you didn't.

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I'm going to give you a list
of things I want to know. Maybe

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you did you know what you did? You did? That's true. Yeah,

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what do you want this time?
I would like a baguette. I

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would like a like the freshest baguette
you can get. I don't know if

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it'll be fresh by the time I
get home, though, I mean fresh

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at that. That's the closest I'm
going to get until I get to Paris

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to get a fresh bag at all. Right, I'll see what I can

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do. So we have some business
to talk about business. We're going to

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talk business here. Yeah. So
we're nearing a year and we had privately

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we'd said we weren't going to do
ads, and we weren't going to do

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Patreon for a year. Yeah,
but I think we're going to rip the

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band aid off and we have actually
had we had a little miscommunication and there

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were some ads running. Yeah,
there have been a few ads running.

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We've been dabbling in it a little
bit, and yeah, but we shut

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it off. But we're gonna turn
the spigot back on. I think the

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spigot a the ad, the adspigot
and the Patreons pigott. Well, the

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ads. We're not going to inundate
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a ton of control over the ads. It's great that we are able.

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We've had enough listens. You don't
just get to pull ads. You have

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to have a certain number of listens
before you have ads. So we're very

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fortunate to be able to have ads
because it's not sustainable for us to not

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make any money at this We're ye
put a lot into it, and I

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think it's time to at least start
to recoup some of what we've invested.

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But the way the ads work on
the podcast networks, unless you're like a

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huge podcast, which we're not,
you know, basically ads you can turn

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on ads to get you know,
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have a lot of control over what
ads they are or you know, how

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long they're placed. You can kind
of control where they get put, and

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we're going to try to make sure
they're at a point where it's not too

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you know, disruptive or whatever.
But we don't love it, but we

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do need to recoup some of our
investment, and yeah, why not.

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But we are at the same time
launching a Patreon. So if you don't

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want to listen to ads, but
you are willing to, you know able

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if you're able to support us.
I know a lot of people have.

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People have been so sweet and kind
and generous, and I know they like

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a lot of the content that we're
doing. And I know not everyone is

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able to. So if you're able
to and you want to support the podcast

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and help us grow, that would
be amazing. Yeah. So if you

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go to patreon dot com and just
search for love Mary Kill, you should

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find us, and we'll try to
try our best to make it worthwhile right

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on. Some of the benefits we
wanted to offer would be no ads,

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early access to episodes, early access
to part two two, and if we're

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up to me, I would literally
send each and every listener a new car.

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That's not feasible, but I want
to try to surprise. Send a

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surprise eyes here and there. Just
small things, small things, but anyway,

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please consider that. Yeah, we
appreciate it. If you can,

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no worries. I am abundantly uncomfortable
talking about money part of the podcast,

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but thank you, thank you.
There you go, there you go.

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So anyway, here today we I'm
going to tell you you're gonna be surprised,

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but a horrible story about a beautiful, young promising journalist. I'm already

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tearing up Kim wall or Kim Vall. I'm going to say a lot of

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things wrong today. Please bear with
me and Peter Madsen, and we're going

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to go to Denmark. Our lovely
listener Deanna from Denmark recommended this case,

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So thanks Deanna, this one's for
you. Awesome Indianna very enthusiastic about the

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snacks and she had many are many
suggestions. Yeah, and I so,

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okay, I'm just gonna unveil the
snack here. I'm gonna bring it out

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for you guys. Do you like
a little yeah, So what we have

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here is a bacon wrapped date,
okay, and then just some apples with

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some liquorice powder on them, liquorice. Janna said that liquorice powder is a

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big or not liquorice powder, but
liquorice is huge in Denmark. People really

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like their liquorice. And it made
you some almonds that are they're like cooked,

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they're slightly dark. I think I
had to warm them up today.

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And but then I made you one
thing that isn't Danish. I had the

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dates out and I remember this kind
of candy treat that I've made before you

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take a date, you cut it
open, you stuff it with peanut butter,

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and it sounds disgusting, but I
promise you it's good. And then

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you roll it and powdered sugar.
Okay, wow, do you want to

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quite a that's quite a Morgas sport. That's Swedish. We are going to

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talk about Sweden a little bit today. Two. Okay, well it looks

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amazing, so yeah, let's take
it. Well. Diana also said that

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dates stuffed with blue cheese are big, but we didn't have any blue cheese

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and I forgot to get some.
So anyway, here we go. All

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right, well that was amazing.
Really, I feel so international and cosmopolitan.

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Yeah. I really liked the plum
wrapped in the bacon. Okay,

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that's a date plum. Okay,
same thing, right, No, I

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know they're at the same thing.
That was delicious, the apple apple thing,

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it was okay. The what was
the little treat, the confessed treat

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that's not Danish. That's just something
that I yeah, I made just because

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I had the dates out and I
was like, oh yeah, I think

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you might like this. It's a
date stuffed with peanut butter rolled in powdered

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sugar and you you cut it up
kind of small so you get more sugar,

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but it's kind of a healthy.
Yeah, it was a healthier treat.

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Yeah, it's almost like a candy. Yeah. And then the almonds

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also very the almost I think are
really tasty. So thanks so much Deanna

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free recommendations. It was fun.
Oh and I should mention too if anyone

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wants to try this at home.
I got this liquorice powder from Amazon,

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of course, and liquorice is spelled
l i q u o riice and you

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can make tea with it too,
which I think it might be a good

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tea and I think it settles stomachs. Cool. So yeah, there's that

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awesome. All right. Well let's
a dive right in will This case is

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heavily and the last case that I
covered was Tina and Gabe Watson and then

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involved diving, and this case also
involves diving, but not in scuba diving

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but a submarine. Oh okay.
Peter Madsen forty seven, a self proclaimed

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and venturepreneur, independently built three submarines
and a rocket. He was well known

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in his home country of Denmark for
his inventions and eccentric personality. His first

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rocket launch was just days away when
his entire life unraveled on August tenth,

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twenty seventeen, after he invited freelance
journalist kimwell Wall thirty aboard his submarine for

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an interview. Only one of them
returned in Entrepreneur. Yeah, he's a

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little bit of an elon Musk.
Alright, alright. Denmark, with a

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population of nearly six million people,
is known to be one of, if

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not the happiest country in the world. It is the southernmost Scandinavian country,

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with the land mass of sixteen thousand, five hundred miles or forty three thousand

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kilo kilometers. It is made up
of a peninsula and an archipelago of over

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four hundred islands. Only about seventy
of those islands are inhabited, and many

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of the islands are connected by a
bridge. Denmark shares only one border with

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Germany to its south, and is
connected to Sweden by the sixteen kilometer Orisund

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Bridge, which goes from Copenhagen,
Denmark, to Melmo, Sweden. While

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Denmark's climate is temperate, there is
precipitation. About half of the days of

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the year. Isn't that crazy?
That is crazy because Denmark is surrounded by

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water, it is vulnerable to erosion
and the effects of climate change. Denmark

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is predominantly white and Christian. What
do you think makes Daines so happy?

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Could it be because college education is
free along with healthcare. There's also why

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are you laughing at me? Oh
no, I'm just laughing because I'll tell

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you about my Denmark experience in a
minute. But it's sort of relevant to

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that. There is welfare support for
individuals and families who are struggling, and

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the elderly and l are also well
taken care of. Denmark is a big

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believer and renewable energy, education,
sustainability, recycling and bicycling. Denmark is

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also known for huga. Do you
know huga? Is? I do because

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we have a book about it?
Hug What is it? If you're so

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smart, It's like the art of
living or the art of happiness? Right,

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yeah, pretty much the art of
coziness, relaxation and spending time enjoying

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life, small pleasures. Big fan
of the hougah. But like one of

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the biggest things about huga is lighting
and I need to work on that because

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we have. We have a lot
of overhead lighting in our house, and

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I think, like, that's not
the coziest lighting, Okay, but I

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think because of the weather, Like
the Danes are really good at the lighting,

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because a lot of times it's probably
a little cloudy. And yeah,

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the Danish pay up to fifty percent
of their income and taxes, but most

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don't mind too much because they receive
so much in return from their government.

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I have just a couple of random
things. Danish pastries were originally made by

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Austrian bakers. Eighty six percent of
Danes speak English as a second language.

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Denmark has the oldest flag in the
world, and it's home to Lagos and

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Hans Christian Anderson. But the story
I'm about to tell you is the most

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horrific murder in Denmark's history. Okay. I also just wanted to say,

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I'm really sorry for mispronouncing. I
just misspronounced. Mispronounce. I am a

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disaster. There's a lot of there's
not too many. It's actually I'm pretty

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fortunate that the names were Kim Wall
and Peter Madsen. But yeah, I'm

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sure you'll do the best you can. Light. So I went to Denmark

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that was the first place I ever
went to in Europe was Copenhagen, Denmark,

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and I just loved it. Was
beautiful, dunning the pictures I can't

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believe I had. I still remember
I had the best meal of my life

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there. It was actually an Italian
restaurant, which was Wow, that's bold

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because I cooked for you every well, this was like a twelve course meal.

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It was like, oh, I
remember you telling me about that.

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Yeah, it was amazing. Is
that where the shoe the shoe? No,

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No, that was a different place. But so then it was a

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beautiful city. I loved it just
you know, walking around the shops and

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everything are beautiful. But I went
out shopping one day with my boss,

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the CEO of my company, and
we went I bought you a sweater.

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I don't know if you remember the
sweater I brought you back from Denmark many

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many years ago. Yeah, I
do. It was you brought one back

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for our daughter, did I?
Yeah, like a little it was.

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They were beautiful. Yeah, they
must have been super expensive. My boss,

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the CEO of the company, he
got he got in this like political

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debate with the owner of the sweater
shop about like taxes and stuff like that.

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It was so funny to see because
my boss was very much like,

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your taxes are so high. I
can't I can't imagine. And she was

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just like, well, yes,
but our college is paid for our health

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care is paid for it. And
she just kind of went on and on

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and it was it was kind of
funny to watch that that exchange. The

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other thing about Dan Mark is I
saw a Pink Floyd tribute band and they

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were really good. One thing that
struck me. And we'll play some clips

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later on. But the the acts
there's their pronunciation is so good of English

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like it it sounds like there's just
barely an accent there. Yeah, and

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some of some of the people.
Peter Madsen was born on January twelfth,

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nineteen seventy one. January twel yeah, that's a special day. Well is

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it? It's it's my birthday.
Yes. I just want to say,

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not all people born on January twelfth, or our psychopaths. Oh okay,

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so Peter Madsen is turned out to
be a psychopath. I guess. Yeah,

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he's not a good guy. You're
not gonna like it. You're not

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gonna like him at all. He
was born to Carl and Annie Madsen in

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Denmark. Carl was a pub owner
and rock and enthusiast. Annie was thirty

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six years his junior, and she
was very religious. Annie had three older

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sons from two previous marriages, whom
Carl was abusive towards, frequently beating them,

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prompting Annie to leave the marriage when
Peter was just six. Peter stayed

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with his sixty nine year old father
while his mother and brother started a new

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life. When Annie began seeing another
man, Carl told Peter that he could

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see his mother, but if he
did, he could never come back.

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I don't think he ever saw Annie
again, which is probably one of the

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most important factors in analyzing Madsen's psyche. He was angry Annie never came back

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for him and Peter's biography Rocket Madsen. He called his father domineering, jealous,

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and violent. He was also racist
and misogynistic. He compared him to

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a Nazi officer for his cruelness towards
his brother, brothers, and mother.

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Despite his dire personality, Carl's passion
for rockets sparked a lifelong passion and his

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son and gave them something in common. Carl built a lab for himself and

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his son to work together, although
the relationship was often acrimonious. Carl introduced

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him to the work of Werner von
Braun, a Nazi aerospace engineer who later

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came to the US and helped develop
the Apollo missions. Carl died when Peter

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was eighteen. Peter lacked focus and
determination during his college years. He struggled

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to commit to a course of study
at university. He tried welding, refrigeration,

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and engineering, but none compelled him
enough to stay in school. He

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dropped up before receiving a degree,
but he felt like he could learn on

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his own without a formal education.
As a teenager, Peter founded the Danish

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Amateur Rocket Club. He was later
kicked out of his own club when other

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members felt he was using unsafe fuels
to propel his rockets. Madson built his

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first sub UC one Freya, in
two thousand and two. She had over

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five hundred dives before she was decommissioned
and sunk into the sea. Freya was

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so small that she could barely fit
two people. UC two Kraka, launched

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in two thousand and five, was
a little bigger, accommodating three people,

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and was more streamlined and modern The
UC three Nautilus, named after Captain Nemo

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Ship and Jules Verne's novel twenty thousand
Leagues under the Sea, built in two

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thousand and eight, was his masterpiece, but more on that later. Madson

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married in twenty eleven. The identity
of his wife is unknown. She has

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requested privacy, and the media surprisingly
has respected that she divorced him in twenty

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eighteen. After his arrest, Madson
claims that they had an open relationship.

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It could have been easy being married
to Peter. Even before the scandal.

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He was passionate and driven, and
often slept in his workshop. He liked

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to throw parties and wow people with
his inventions. When he was younger,

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he hadn't been very social, but
as an adult, his accentured work and

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rebellious anti government stance attracted people to
him, especially artists and freethinkers like himself.

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While Matson was somewhat of a celebrity
in Denmark, he wasn't wealthy and

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struggled financially at times. He never
really had a regular job. He depended

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on crowdfunding, the generosity of others
and speaking fees. Matson was also known

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to enjoy a BDSM lifestyle, frequently
attending fetish parties while sometimes wearing a navy

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uniform. We've had a lot of
people that have had a few. Yeah.

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Yeah. At his trial, he
admitted to being very promiscuous and autoerotically

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active. One can't help but draw
a conclude comparison between the phallic nature of

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Matson's submarine obsession and his sexual proclivities
and rockets too. I guess right.

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Deed King, a close friend of
Matson's, told Wired magazine quote, I

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broke both of my hands once,
and Peter came by every day for two

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months and brushed my hair. He
is a man who loves women. End

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quote. Robert Fox, who made
the documentary My Private Submarine, told Wired

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magazine that women found him fascinating and
sometimes the submarine was used in his seduction

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strategies. According to New Yorker Magazine, he had allegedly acted, directed,

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and produced two porn films. In
two thousand and seven, he loaned two

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submarines to the porn movie A Thunder
Pussy. Manson was also into the art

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scene once he loaned his submarines to
a ballet company that performed submerged in water.

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Along with his sons, a real
patron of the arts of sk He

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really was, I mean, an
psychopath, but an interesting guy. Yeah,

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okay, now we're going to talk
about Kim, who every time,

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not every most, like all the
cases. Really, I just love our

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end up falling in love with the
victims, and Kim is one of my

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favorites. So very empathetic Kim,
I'll be prepared to hit the pause button.

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Kim Wall was born on March twenty
third, nineteen eighty seven in Trailburg,

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Sweden, the southernmost city in the
country. Her parents, Joachim and

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Ingrid Wall, were both journalists.
Kim was lovingly called Mumlin by her family.

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Tom was born about a year after
Kim and completed the family. From

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a young age, Kim and Tom
were world travelers. By the age of

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one, Kim had visited all of
the European countries, often tagging along with

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her parents on assignment. Joakim was
a photojournalist in Ingrid was an award winning

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print journalist. I've listened to a
lot of interviews with them. Lovely,

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lovely people. Even as a child, Kim had an unquenchable curiosity to learn

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about the world and its cultures.
She was ambitious, smart, beautiful and

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kind with a bubbly personality. Kim
studied in Malmo, Sweden, the London

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School of Economics, and the Sarbonne
in Paris before she moved to the United

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States and received two master's degree from
Columbia University in journalism and international affairs.

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Her family was very proud of her. She was the first among them to

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earn a college degree. She trained
in Dela Delahi, India as a trainee

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for the European Union, the Swedish
Embassy in Canbery, Australia, and the

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South China Morning Post in Hong Kong. So she just a crazy amount,

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yeah, of success in her young
life. I'm just so impressed by people

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that are so well traveled and have
so much, you know, international kind

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of global experience like that. It's
just mind blowing. Yeah. Kim's work

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was featured in The New York Times, Slate, Harper's, The Atlantic,

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Vice Magazine, Time Magazine, The
Guardian, the South China Morning Post,

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and many others. She was just
thirty when when she died. In twenty

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thirteen, Kim won first place in
the Foreign Press Association's competition and for Young

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Journalists She was a social justice warrior
and gave voice to people without without one,

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but her work had a pop culture
spin that made it relevant and modern.

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Her body of work is interesting and
diverse. Some of her Some of

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her work includes an article on furries. You know what you know what a

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fur? Yeah? Tell us about
a furious in case people don't. I'm

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sure everyone knows, but I people
who like to dress up like animals,

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right or were like fur tails and
stuff, and it's it's sort of like

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a sexual thing. I guess.
Well, I'll tell you more in a

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second. But remember one time,
this was years ago, we were at

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I think it was was it when
Borders was still around. We were at

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a bookstore and I remember we had
our kids with us, and someone had

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my little pony like out costume on
and I was like, what the hell?

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And that was my first was your
first experience? Yeah? I think

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kids must not have been that young, because I think I think they knew

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what it was. Yeah. Anyway, I read I read this article and

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from Kim's work, most furries are
mail work in the tech world, and

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for many it isn't about sex,
but they identify more as animals. H

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Kim also wrote an article on voodoo. She had an interview with a real

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life vampire. It's just really had
a really interesting body of work. And

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I've read a couple of the articles
that I want to go back and read

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more because she just she was a
really great writer. Kim's best known article

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is about the Marshall Islands and the
devastating effects of climate change that will soon

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00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.759
likely turn the residents into climate refugees
as their beautiful islands disappear under the ocean.

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The article also describes nuclear tests by
the US from nineteen forty eight to

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nineteen fifty eight on Bikini Atoll,
one of the Marshall Islands, and the

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00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:49.599
long lasting effects on the people there. These tests were the equivalent of bombs

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one point six times the size of
the bombs dropped on Hiroshima every day for

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ten years. Wow, I didn't
know this story. It's it's crazy.

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A dome on the island contains tons
of nuclear waste. It is deteriorating and

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00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:08.319
the nuclear waste will wash out to
see if the dome becomes further compromised.

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00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:14.960
Here's Kim on w NYC talking about
her work. One hundred and eleven thousand,

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00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:19.160
cubic yards of radioactive waste are housed
under a giant concrete dome in the

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00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:25.559
middle of the Pacific Ocean in the
Marshall Islands. The Runt Dome and its

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00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:30.720
toxic contents are the hulking legacy of
years of US nuclear testing in the Pacific.

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00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:36.119
And if that wasn't reason enough concern, the dome is leaking and all

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00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:41.440
the radioactive waste is additionally threatened by
rising sea levels caused by climate change.

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00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:48.000
Kim Wall investigated the dome for The
Guardian along with Colleen is It Jo Jose

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00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:53.799
Jose and also Jan Hedrik Hinsel and
Kim joins us. Now, welcome to

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00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.960
our show. Thank you, thank
you for having us. You right that

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00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:02.279
the Runa Dome looks like a down
owned UFO and that locals call it the

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00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:07.880
tomb. How large is it?
It is twenty two feet high and it's

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00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:14.720
it's such a surreal site. When
you come to Ruined Island, which is

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00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:19.480
pretty tiny, you walk through the
bushes and there it is, and no

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00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:26.400
warning signs, nothing that indicates what's
inside. And it looks so surreal.

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00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:33.079
It's like what we write is like
a UFO or like a very baseball in

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00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:37.440
the sand. Now, why are
there no warning signs? You must have

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00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:42.759
asked that is a really good question. And we did ask the US scientists

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00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:49.359
who regularly monitored the site, and
they say that there should be some signs

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00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:53.559
and they will look into it.
Do you know if most visitors to the

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00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:59.839
dome or to the area are even
aware what's inside? Vaguely aware? I

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00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:06.559
believe the islanders live only fourteen miles
away thirty minutes by boat, on Anewetak

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00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:11.960
Island, the main island of the
atoll, the world's only resettle nuclear ground

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00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:18.799
zero, And the locals don't even
have a word for radiation. They refer

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00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.559
to it as poison. And they
do know that run it is not a

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00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.200
safe place to visit. There used
to be more regulations in place. The

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00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:32.799
boats could not go more than one
mile off the shores of this off limits

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00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:37.640
island, but now no one is
regulating it, and and the locals have

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00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:44.000
begun to visit islands to try to
make an extra income. So what's inside

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00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:49.119
this dome? It's the stuff that
was left on the soil after the nuclear

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00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:55.119
tests, just scraped off, that's
right. That's a mix of contaminated soil

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00:24:55.319 --> 00:25:02.880
and irradiated debris from the forty three
atomic bombs that were exp hydrogen hydrogen bombs.

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00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:08.039
Yes, I love her voice.
I know I had to look really

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00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.400
hard to find a clip of her
voice, and just sounds like such a

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00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:17.359
sweet, sweet person. And that
story is just mind boggling. Yeah,

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00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:22.200
if you go to Remembering Kimwall dot
com, it's a lovely memorial website.

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00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.559
Her parents have been strongly involved in
developing that. But it has a ton

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00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.559
of her articles and just more information
about her. So strongly encourage you to

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00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.119
go there and read more of her
work and just see. Like I only

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00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:37.920
mentioned a few of the articles,
but she has a lot of just quirky,

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00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.240
quirky things, and I love that
kind of thing. So, a

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00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.880
Columbia journalism professor said, quote,
Kim wanted to write unexpected stories, and

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00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.720
that's exactly what she did. She
took the topics seriously, even if they

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00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.640
often made you laugh. The combination
of finding odd stories and treating them with

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00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:57.440
respect got her sources to relax and
allowed her to get the most out of

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00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:03.480
the interview. End quote. Kim's
friend Tim McDonnell said in the documentary Undercurrent,

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00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.920
the Disappearance of Kim Wall quote.
She was motivated by the weirdness of

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00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:12.559
the world, working in the undercurrents
of rebellion, weird little corners that hopefully

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00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:18.400
broaden people's mind and quote. Kim
spent her time between New York and Copenhagen.

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When she wasn't traveling for work,
she was very much in love at

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00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.039
the time of her death. She
spent as much time as she could with

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00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.480
her her boyfriend, Olie Stobe,
a Danish designer. Kim even joked that

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00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:36.079
her career and Wallett had suffered since
falling in love. Olie lived in ref

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00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:40.440
Sholin, an area in Copenhagen known
for its former shipyards but is now a

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00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:47.559
trendy hub of creativity and progression.
Olie's name is ol E and I'm not

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00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:49.799
sure if I'm saying it right.
Sounds right to me? Well, like

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00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:55.119
here we would say oh, but
I heard someone call it say Ole,

359
00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:59.720
But I'm just gonna go with Olie. Kim had been working as a freelance

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00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.359
nalist for four years. She got
a lot done in four years. In

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00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.759
twenty sixteen, she underwent training for
several days with he Fat the hostile environment

362
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:12.200
and first aid training for journalism.
She was taught self defense and trained how

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00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.480
to handle a kidnapping or a hostage
situation. She was keenly aware of the

364
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:22.599
dangers of her profession, but undeterred. She believed in what she called shoe

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00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.720
leather journalism. She liked to be
amongst the people she reported about and speak

366
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.440
to them directly. So what do
you think of Kim so far? Oh?

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00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.519
She sounds amazing. I mean,
yeah, I just love people like

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00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:37.920
that. Yeah. So now back
to Peter. Peter Madsen, along with

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00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:44.000
his friend Kristen von Bankston, a
Danish architect who had previously worked for NASA,

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00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:49.160
co founded a crowdfunded nonprofit company called
Copenhagen's sub Orbitals in two thousand and

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00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:55.480
eight. Their lab, located in
Raffholin on the Baltic Sea, was housed

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in a hanger that had once been
used to paint battleships. Copenhagen Suborbital First

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00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.640
Feet was the UC Nautilus three,
part art project and part engineering triumph.

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00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.519
The Nautilus took its first voyage on
May third, two thousand and eight,

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00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:12.720
as spectators excitedly watched it being lowered
into the water in Copenhagen, Denmark.

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00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:18.720
The UC three Nautilus was the longest
and tallest independently operated submarine ever built.

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It was fifty eight feet long and
weighed forty tons. Built from the base

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00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:27.279
of a wind turbine, it costs
over two hundred thousand dollars to build,

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00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:32.839
but it was constructed mostly by items
you can find at your local hardware store.

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00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.400
And I know you're going to like
go to home depot after this building

381
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:40.079
the submarine. Yeah, no,
I'm not going to build a submarine.

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00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:42.359
Copenhagen sub Well, we don't have
any water near us. It's kind of

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00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:48.839
pond out back. Oh yeah.
Copenhagen Suborbitals then set their sights on the

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next great beyond space. They planned
to launch the firstmand built from scratch rocket

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00:28:53.319 --> 00:29:00.359
with crowdfunding. They called it the
Ultimate DIY project. Copenhagen Suborbitals is run

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00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:06.519
by over fifty dedicated volunteers. In
twenty thirteen in Kiev, Madison gave a

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00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:11.319
ted talk about his work with Copenhagen
Suborbitals. Here's a clip. Now,

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00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:18.000
what Christian I decided to do was
our ultimate challenge. What we wanted to

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00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.200
do was to build a mission,
to produce a mission that would carry a

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00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:26.759
human being into space and safely back. Pretty much like like Kennedy said,

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00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.279
I believe this nation should commit itself
to the goal of landing a man on

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the noon and they're turning him safely
back to Earth. Our sort of pledge

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00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.680
would be that we try to send
a human being out of that birth atmosphere

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00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:41.880
and stay out there, be waitless, and enjoy the view, and then

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00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.519
return back to Earth. And when
I say man, of course, I

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00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:48.960
mean like mankind, it might as
well be a female. I'd love to

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00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.400
launch a female. We just kind
of been able to found volunteers for this

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00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:59.119
homemade rocket, right, certainly not
female volunteers. So I stepped in myself

399
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.359
and say, okay, you can
launch me unexpendable. So that's a great

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00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.599
experience and a great honor to be
allowed to do such a thing. What

401
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.200
we see in these pictures is the
construction of our prototype spacecraft. It was

402
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.400
very discount We build it so that
you could only stand up inside of it.

403
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.960
They weren't rove to lie down.
And we can see that we're actually

404
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:22.240
welding it, we're actually building it. We're not going to the bank and

405
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:27.839
lending money. We simply started constructing
it. And we are presented with a

406
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.240
number of incredible difficult problems, and
the only way to deal with incredible difficult

407
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:41.160
problems that you cannot see a way
through is to do something different. When

408
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:44.519
we needed a place to launch our
rocket, the problem was that we could

409
00:30:44.519 --> 00:30:48.960
not get a permit to launch it
at the Bikon or Cosmo droom because they

410
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.559
don't take amateur rockets. We couldn't
get to launch it and can the space

411
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:56.920
and that either I'd have to say
we didn't ask, but we found out

412
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.920
that the probably wouldn't be likely or
for that matter, any other professional space

413
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:06.599
range. So what we decided to
do instead was to go out to sea,

414
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.960
so as early in the pronching ness
we could. We simply constructed a

415
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.920
sea launch ship. We've built the
ship that you consider this pick of this

416
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.640
is a twelve liters why fifteen the
long casmaron that can carry a two ton

417
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:23.680
rocket far to see outside the rules
and regulations of the as space, and

418
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:30.240
from there we can launch all rockets, although they're quite experimental and the prediction

419
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:36.599
of the flight can be difficult.
That's him. Huh yeah? Does he

420
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:41.119
sound like a psychopath? Sounds like
your classic self proclaimed genius in venturepreneur.

421
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.319
Well, here's a blurb from the
Copenhagen Orbital website that I'm going to have

422
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:51.839
you read if you don't mind sure. Copenhagen Suborbitals is the world's only crude

423
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:56.880
amateur space flight program. We are
located in Denmark with supporters across the world.

424
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.519
From twenty eleven to the present day, we've designed and flown six rockets

425
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:06.319
and capsules from our floating launch site
in the Baltic Sea. Our goal is

426
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:09.960
simple but audacious, to fly an
amateur astronaut to space and return them safely

427
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:15.559
to Earth, a mission as ambitious
as Alan Shepherd's first space flight. Without

428
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:20.519
any governmental or corporate backing. We
seek to prove that any motivated group of

429
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:23.839
people can reach space. If we
are successful, Denmark, a nation of

430
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:28.640
less than six million people, will
be the fourth nation on Earth and the

431
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.039
first in Europe to launch humans into
space on a domestic rocket, joining the

432
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:37.960
ranks of Russia, the USA and
China. When George Mallory was asked why

433
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:40.920
he wanted to climb Mount Everest,
he replied, because it's there. We

434
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.880
work to send an amateur into space
because space is there to be explored.

435
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:52.920
Copenhagen sub Orbitals is a crowdfunded nonprofit
organization. We're a plucky group of fifty

436
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:58.240
to sixty inspired volunteers. It takes
a diverse team to build rockets. Our

437
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:04.200
staff includes blacksmiths, physicists, rocket
scientists, and software engineers to name only

438
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.519
a few of our dedicated specialists.
We work in our spare time, around

439
00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:13.200
the margins of our work days.
So I just took that from their website

440
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:17.440
last week, and apparently they haven't
updated because India has now landed on the

441
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:22.880
Moon. I thought there might be
more contries. Yeah, yeah, I

442
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.240
think just for a second we should
talk about that. Really is a major

443
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:31.599
feat to build these machines without government
funding and to do it in your spare

444
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:36.519
time and crowdfunding it. It is
a really they are really cool projects.

445
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:42.759
In twenty fourteen, Madsen and Kristen
von Bengston severed ties. Madsen had become

446
00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:46.960
obsessed with the mild fame he had
garnered and ironically accused von Bengston of stealing

447
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:52.839
the limelight. The truth was Madsen
wasn't organized and didn't comprehend that for their

448
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:58.160
space mission to succeed, they need
to adopt Van Bangston's more methodical approached.

449
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:04.160
He opened rock at Madsen's space lab
known as RML and the hanger across the

450
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:09.840
way from Copenhagen's suborbitals. The rivaling
space pioneers was a big story and gained

451
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:15.880
the kind of media attention neither Madsen
nor von Bankston desired. So essentially,

452
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:19.000
they asked him. They told him, you need to leave because he was

453
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:24.480
just very disruptive and a little crazy. But I just think it's so funny

454
00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:30.239
too that he just went across the
street. Madsen's vision was manifested by a

455
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:35.679
large group of passionate volunteers. These
dedicated volunteers worked their nine to five jobs

456
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.760
during the week, but their weekends
belonged to Madsen's projects. His work would

457
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:44.079
not have been possible without their dedication
and willingness to volunteer their time and skills.

458
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:46.079
They weren't driven by money or fame, but by the mission to become

459
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:52.119
the first independent rocket to go to
space. Madsen was known to be moody

460
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:57.760
and eccentric, as most brilliant inventors
are. His favorite uniform was coveralls and

461
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:01.400
hiking boots, and that's how he
performed, ted talked to. He was

462
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:06.880
often described as unpredictable and erratic.
At times, he was kind and patient

463
00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:09.239
and quite charismatic, but when things
went awry, he was known for his

464
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:15.880
petulant temper, tantrums, throwing hammers, screwdrivers and other things around the workshop,

465
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.880
along with insults. He liked to
pretend to be a Nazi, and

466
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:22.679
he had an odd fascination with the
Third Reich. As his father did.

467
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:29.480
Madsen approached his inventions with an anti
establishment attitude, which made him a hero

468
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.840
to many. Oly and Kim were
out one night for a walk when they

469
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:37.800
came across the hangar that housed Madsen's
RML space Lab. It was right next

470
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:43.760
door to Copenhagen Suborbitals. Kim thought
it was peculiar that two workshops with such

471
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.679
similar missions were so close to each
other, and she was instantly intrigued.

472
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:52.519
She knew there was a good story
there. She began a month's long investigation

473
00:35:52.719 --> 00:35:55.880
into the competing space laps. She
shot the idea for an article about Madsen

474
00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:00.840
and von Bengston around. Wired magazine
picked up the story. Kim called Peter

475
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:06.039
Madsen many many times, but she
didn't have any luck reaching him. I

476
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:07.920
wouldn't imagine he's the kind of guy
that would return your phone call ever,

477
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:13.719
but he probably really loved publicity too, so true he didn't seem to be

478
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:16.840
interested in being interviewed for her story. Kim was patient, but in August

479
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:21.199
twenty seventeen, she was running out
of time. She and Olyi were moving

480
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:24.639
to Beijing in a few days.
Kim had an indelible curiosity about the world

481
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:29.719
and had an unmatched wanderlust. She
and Olie were so excited to start their

482
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:34.559
new life together in China. Kim
loved Chinese culture. She once said home

483
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.880
is where my suit case is.
Only described her as falling in love every

484
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:42.760
fifty meters with something new in the
world. Kim was brave, but sometimes

485
00:36:42.760 --> 00:36:46.039
she felt vulnerable and wary of her
environment. She struggled with being an international

486
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:51.719
freelance reporter and being respected by men. She texted her friend the following message

487
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:57.199
on March fourteenth, twenty seventeen.
I only have questions about agency as a

488
00:36:57.239 --> 00:37:00.039
woman and if we'll ever be free
no matter what we do. Leaning towards

489
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:06.519
no, Kim had been pursuing and
researching Peter Madson for seven months and was

490
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:08.880
beginning to think the interview would never
come to fruition when he sent her a

491
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:14.239
text inviting her to Tea on August
tenth, twenty seventeen, it seemed like

492
00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:16.599
a very peter thing to do.
Come for Tea, Kim and Olie were

493
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:21.960
hosting a bon voyage party for themselves. She was so excited to interview Peter

494
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:25.119
that she dropped everything and went to
meet him. This was the interview she

495
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:30.440
needed to complete her story. She
asked Olie if he wanted to accompany her.

496
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:32.360
He wanted to tag along and meet
the genius inventor, but he was

497
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:37.800
expecting guests and didn't want to cancel
on them at the last minute. Kim

498
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.599
promised to return a few hours later
after her interview with Madsen was finished,

499
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:45.079
and joined the party. Peter Madson
not only agreed to Kim's interview, but

500
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:49.440
he also invited her to come aboard
his submarine for a two hour voyage.

501
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.960
She jumped at the opportunity. Of
course, she was so excited to have

502
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:57.760
exclusive access to him. She sent
Olie several photos, one of her boarding

503
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.840
the submarine, one of her at
the wheel, and a picture of underwater

504
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:06.360
windmills, along with a series of
texts that said I'm still alive, by

505
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:09.719
the way, but I'm going down
now. I love you with five exclamation

506
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:15.239
points. He brought coffee and cookies. This was the last contact anyone ever

507
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:21.960
had with Kim. The bon voyage
party was still going strong when someone told

508
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:24.880
Olie to look towards the horizon off
in the distance. He saw Kim waving

509
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:29.760
at them against the backdrop of the
setting sun from the tower of the Nautilus.

510
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:32.159
Can you picture that? No,
Okay, you know, like a

511
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:36.599
submarine is like long and skinny,
but there's this I'll post a picture,

512
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:38.880
of course, but there's like a
okay, like the bridge, like the

513
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:44.440
bridge or whatever, like the yeah, and it's just like the circular you

514
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:47.320
know, tower stacked on top of
the Okay. So she was right there,

515
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:51.199
right near, Yeah, she was, Yeah, she was close to

516
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:54.559
them. I should mention here that
it was a big submarine and required a

517
00:38:54.599 --> 00:39:00.199
minimum of three crew members to safely
sail. Peter and Kim were the only

518
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:01.800
two on board. He shouldn't have
taken it out on his own, but

519
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:07.920
I think he frequently did. The
bon voyage party continued into the night and

520
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.639
later moved to a local bar.
Oli began to worry that Kim hadn't returned

521
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:14.559
yet. He went to the dock, growing more concerned by the minute.

522
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.000
At one thirty am, he rode
his bike around the island but didn't see

523
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:22.320
Kim or the submarine. He called
the police and then the Danish coast Guard.

524
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:25.320
Olie couldn't imagine that Peter Madsen,
a well known man in Dedmark,

525
00:39:25.400 --> 00:39:29.639
would have caused harm to Kim.
He assumed there must have been a problem

526
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:34.639
with the Nautilus. By four am, news spread that the local maritime rescue

527
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:38.079
center was responding to an emergency.
Olie, who'd been awake all night worrying

528
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:43.159
about Kim, waited until five thirty
am to call her parents and Schulberg,

529
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.760
Sweden, just forty five minutes away, awakening them with the news of Kim's

530
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:52.920
disappearance. The Walls raced to Copenhagen
to be with Olie as the search ensued.

531
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.559
Kim and Olie had been dating I
think for about a year, and

532
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:00.559
ironically the Walls had just met him
a few days prior, so they didn't

533
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:07.440
know him well okay, but they
really liked him. Helicopters and three boats

534
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.440
went out searching for the Nautilus.
The submarine had enough oxygen to last for

535
00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:15.360
twelve hours with two people on board, time was running out. The Nautilus

536
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:21.199
was spotted several hours later near a
lighthouse in Coke Bay, about thirty miles

537
00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:25.199
from Copenhagen. Matson made radio contact
and said that everyone on board was fine.

538
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:30.159
Ole and Kim's parents were alerted and
they were overjoyed that the submarine was

539
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:32.519
found and Kim was safe. I
wish that was the end of the story.

540
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:36.400
Yeah, I wish it was too. Sadly, the relief was short

541
00:40:36.440 --> 00:40:40.039
lived. A good Samaritan was searching
for the Nautilus on his boat when he

542
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:45.480
saw Peter in the tower of his
submarine waving. He then briefly disappeared down

543
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:50.000
the hatch of the Nautilus and reappeared
as it began to sink into the sea.

544
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:54.159
Peter jumped into the water and swam
to a nearby boat. He was

545
00:40:54.199 --> 00:40:59.679
pulled out of the water to safety. The Nautilus sank in thirty seconds.

546
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:04.559
There was no sign of Kim.
News traveled fast that a rescue was underway,

547
00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:07.199
and the media, along with Oli
and the Walls, was present at

548
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.199
the dock. When Peter arrived on
shore, he looked nonplussed, not at

549
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:14.400
all like a man who had just
done unspeakable things to a young woman so

550
00:41:14.599 --> 00:41:19.360
full of life and promise. He
gave reporters a thumbs up and said he

551
00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.639
was okay, but he was sad
because a submarine had sunk. He said,

552
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:25.280
there had been a defect and the
ballast tank. Do you know what

553
00:41:25.280 --> 00:41:30.320
a ballast tank is? I not
really ballast tank is. I'm sorry to

554
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:32.800
put you on the spodica. A
ballast tank is a compartment within a boat,

555
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:37.639
ship or other floating structure that holds
water, which is used to provide

556
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:43.079
hydrostatic stability for a vessel to reduce
or control buoyancy, as in a submarine

557
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.679
or other submersible. Exactly, I
knew that. I just wanted to make

558
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.400
sure you knew. Thank you.
Police noted Madsen had fresh scratches on his

559
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:54.800
arms and blood on his left nostril. Madson claimed that he had dropped Kim

560
00:41:54.840 --> 00:42:00.519
off the previous night at a port
on rof Scholine Island near her home because

561
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:06.400
of the problem with the submarine's ballastink. Footage from surveillance cameras was searched,

562
00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:10.519
and no images of Kim or a
submarine was found. Authorities didn't believe Madsen's

563
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:15.519
story and announced he was a murder
suspect. He was arrested and charged with

564
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:22.239
involuntary manslaughter for quote having killed in
an unknown way and an unknown place.

565
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:30.199
Kim Isabel Frederika Wall of Sweden sometime
after Thursday five pm. Gross negligence would

566
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.360
later be added to the charges.
The Walls learned the news as they waited

567
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.079
in the police station to be interviewed, when it was broadcast on TV that

568
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:42.599
Peter Matson had been arrested. So
at this point they're still hoping that Kim

569
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:47.079
is out there somewhere. The sunken
submarine was raised on Sunday, August thirteenth

570
00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:51.400
in the early morning hours, filled
with over nine thousand gallons of water.

571
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:54.800
Once the submarine was searched, authorities
were surprised to learn that Kim's body was

572
00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.039
not inside, although some of her
clothing and jacket were found. Investigators determined

573
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:06.800
that the Nautilus was intentionally sunk by
Madson. Coagulated blood was found that matched

574
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:10.840
Kim's. During his first court appearance, Madsen's story changed after he claimed that

575
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:14.760
a hatch in the submarine had hit
Kim in the head, killing her.

576
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:19.119
The hatch weighed one hundred fifty four
pounds, so it certainly had the potential

577
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:22.760
to kill or seriously injure Kim.
Madson told please he buried Kim at c

578
00:43:23.079 --> 00:43:28.480
because he didn't want a dead body
aboard his submarine. Well, that's horrible.

579
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:30.719
I just don't he was not that
far out, and this is his

580
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:34.599
excuse. Oh, I had to
bury my body because I didn't want Yeah,

581
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.079
I'm struggling to make sense of how
all this is going to make any

582
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:40.599
sense at all? I guess.
He told investigators that he was so distraught

583
00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:46.079
after Kim's death he contemplated suicide.
Using divers and sonar the water's research for

584
00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:50.920
Kim's body, but it was an
extremely vast area and would be like finding

585
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:52.800
a needle in a haystack, or
more accurately, finding a needle in one

586
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:58.800
hundred haystacks. Media coverage was rabid, unrelenting, and exhausting for the Walls.

587
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:02.719
They refused all interview requests. They
were frustrated by the media's focus on

588
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:07.960
Madsen and the lack of respect shown
for Kim. She was a nameless victim,

589
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:10.519
not an accomplished woman who had made
an impact with her work in journalism.

590
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:14.159
So his story, just so I
have this straight. So his story

591
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:19.159
is that she was killed accidentally by
this hatch and then he just decided he

592
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.800
didn't want a dead body on his
sub and so he put her out into

593
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.079
the water. Yeah, yeah,
okay, And I think, like,

594
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:30.119
I don't know where they were,
he said he he had opened the hatch

595
00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:32.880
like they were must have been going
up, and he opened the hatch and

596
00:44:32.920 --> 00:44:37.320
then accidentally dropped it and it fell
on her head. On August twenty first,

597
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.280
a woman was riding her bike near
the site where the submarine sink.

598
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:45.599
She made the gruesome discovery of a
female torso on the beach. A piece

599
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:47.639
of metal was strapped to the torso
and a failed attempt to weigh it down.

600
00:44:49.280 --> 00:44:53.360
The heartbroken Wall family gave police Kim's
hairbrush and toothbrush for a DNA analysis.

601
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:58.800
Two days later, test results confirmed
that the torso belonged to Kim.

602
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.960
That's horrible. It's horrible. An
autopsy on the torso was promptly completed,

603
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:07.199
revealing that Kim had been stabbed fifteen
times. Post mortem, in and around

604
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:12.599
her vagina, possibly to keep the
torso from floating to the surface. The

605
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:16.400
cause of death was undetermined. Kim's
head and extremities appeared to have been purposely

606
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:22.239
removed. Matson told police he was
forced to dismember Kim's body after he had

607
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.519
tried to get her through the tower
of the submarine for over an hour and

608
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:31.840
had failed. It was a horrible
irony to Kim's family that she had traveled

609
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:36.840
the globe to dangerous places like Syria
and North Korea, yet she had died

610
00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:39.159
so close to her childhood home in
a country with such a low rate of

611
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:44.719
crime. The media sieged the walls
to make a statement. They struggled to

612
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:47.159
process what had happened to their beloved
Kim, but they released the following statement

613
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:52.239
on August seventeenth. We Kim's family, parents and brother are experiencing the worst

614
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.320
days of our lives. No one
can imagine what we are going through.

615
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:59.599
Kim has worked in so many dangerous
places in her work as a journalist.

616
00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:04.119
In their been many times we worried
about her. That something could have happened

617
00:46:04.119 --> 00:46:07.599
in Copenhagen, just a stone's throw
from her childhood home, is something we

618
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:10.280
could never have imagined. Now it
looks as though the worst has happened.

619
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:15.480
This is why we Ingrid, Joachim
and Tom Wall appear to any of you

620
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:17.760
who might be able to help us
find out what has happened. We have

621
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:22.480
great confidence in the way the police
are working, and we passionately, we

622
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:27.320
hope, passionately the public will contribute
with information that can help them solve the

623
00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:31.400
case. Please contact the police in
Copenhagen or Melmo and tell them anything you

624
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:36.000
know. We can't imagine anything better
than getting our Kim back safe and sound,

625
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:38.840
but we realize the chances are very
small. Even so, please let

626
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:43.960
us know what has happened. A
group of fifty determined divers who dive more

627
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:47.039
than three thousand, five hundred times
searching for Kim became frustrated with the slow

628
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:52.559
pace of the search for her remains. Joaquim Wall suggested to the Danish police

629
00:46:52.599 --> 00:46:55.639
to use cadaver dogs to help narrow
the search field. Jens Mueller Jensen,

630
00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:00.880
who was in charge of the investigation, had become close with Ingrid Kim.

631
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:04.960
The Danish police had never used cadaver
dogs before. They just didn't believe in

632
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:08.920
the science, but Joachim was persistent
and had connections, so Gen's relented and

633
00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:15.639
cadaver dogs were broader board the boats
to help narrow the search. Surprised cadaver

634
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:19.519
dogs could work out in the sea, I mean yeah, and I'm surprised

635
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:23.239
that Denmark hadn't used then to that
point. They do know cool. In

636
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.000
October, divers found Kim's head,
her clothing, and a knife and plastic

637
00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:31.559
bags. Kim's skull showed no signs
of a fracture, so investigators knew that

638
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:37.800
Peter's story about her being hit by
the hatch was a lie. I already

639
00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:42.880
suspected that a saw was found by
the divers, so his story about dismembering

640
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:46.000
her because he couldn't get her up
the hatch was another lie. The decapitation

641
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:51.719
and dismemberment must have been premeditated.
Her legs were found tied to pieces of

642
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:54.679
metal, and in late November,
the last of Kim's remains, her arms

643
00:47:54.679 --> 00:48:00.719
were found tied to pipes. So
I'll talk about the show, but there

644
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:07.519
is a HBO show called The Investigation, and it covers it's just I think

645
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:13.679
it was six parts, and it
really covers like the divers and how hard

646
00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:19.119
they worked to find Kim's remains.
It was arduous work and just really and

647
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:22.760
the dogs really did help narrow the
search field, so it was a vast

648
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:25.960
area. And yeah, people are
really heros. I think about that.

649
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.840
In other cases we've done the people
who would just risk their lives to,

650
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.079
you know, search for remains of
people just to bring closure to their families.

651
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:38.679
It's just really heroic. Yeah,
it spot on. It was disappointing

652
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:43.599
to investigators. With Kim's body together
again, there was still no clear cause

653
00:48:43.599 --> 00:48:47.159
of death. The Walls waited until
June to hold a funeral for Kim.

654
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:51.760
She was well loved and people from
all over the globe came to Sweden for

655
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:57.760
her final final farewell. Him was
an artist and a storyteller, and every

656
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:02.639
sense she seemed to be uttered and
uniquely unafraid of going into uncharted territories.

657
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:09.639
She had wonder loss and droves and
it hung off her every work. Kim

658
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:15.880
had an infectious curiosity that was almost
childlike in nature, full of innocence and

659
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:23.559
good will. She grabbed every opportunity
she could. Sometimes it worked, sometimes

660
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:30.440
it didn't. She along the way, her life became an adventure the world

661
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:36.199
through Kim's eyes was a rare and
special perspective. She didn't shy away from

662
00:49:36.199 --> 00:49:42.119
tough questions. My friend, Kim
wrote stories that transformed cultural anthropology into popular

663
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:49.079
narratives. He need going from continent
to continent looked like it was no big

664
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:54.519
deal. We complain often that journalism
lacks creativity and depth, but Kim had

665
00:49:54.679 --> 00:50:00.599
so much of them. She told
human stories in the same where she lived

666
00:50:00.599 --> 00:50:04.440
her life. She told them with
grace, dignity, and joyce care for

667
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:08.440
our shared experiences. I remember when
she told me about her upbringing. Both

668
00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:14.559
of her parents were journalists and she
had often accompanied them on small reporting trips.

669
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:19.719
That's why she's so good. I
thought Kim would have wanted more women

670
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:24.239
out in the world rushing up against
life. She gave voice the week the

671
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:29.480
vulnerable and marginalized people. That voice
has been needed for a long time.

672
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:37.559
No, it will not be that's
a very nice tribute. Yeah, someone's

673
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:42.920
getting a little teary eyed. I
know I'm a weirdo, but I have

674
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:49.039
pictures of our victims on my phone, and I have one picture of Kim.

675
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:59.760
Let's just so lovely. Madsen's computer
was searched and videos of women being

676
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:04.679
orchard burned, alived and decapitated were
found, yet he maintained that Kim had

677
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:07.960
died in an accident aboard the submarine. It was discovered that Madson had an

678
00:51:08.039 --> 00:51:15.559
unhealthy obsession with snuff films. So
I think snuff films, like I think,

679
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:20.599
this is what I texted you,
literally, like, if the FBI

680
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:22.559
is at the door, it's for
me. And that's when I was trying

681
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:25.920
to find Like I wasn't trying to
find snuff films, even just information.

682
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:30.880
It's really hard to find information because
I think it's in question whether they even

683
00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:35.719
exist or not. But of course
they exist, but I'm not sure how

684
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:38.800
you access them. But yeah,
that's horrible, Yeah, horrible, horrible,

685
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:44.119
horrible guy. Just I think people
like him think they can get away

686
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:49.800
with anything. Investigators were afraid that
with no clear cause of death, they

687
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:53.519
wouldn't have enough evidence to convict Madson
from murder. Madson's friends, volunteers,

688
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:58.639
and interns were forced to confront their
relationship with Peter. Many of his friends

689
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:01.760
didn't believe he was capable of such
a horrible crime and defended him vigorously,

690
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:06.760
but as the evidence mounted against him, they were forced to reconcile the two

691
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:10.159
different versions of Peter Madson. He
had been their leader, mentor, and

692
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:14.519
friend, and they had devoted so
much of themselves to the vision of a

693
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:17.719
madman. That must have been really
hard for those people to recogile. Initially

694
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:21.880
they were like, he couldn't have
done this, but then yeah, yeah,

695
00:52:21.920 --> 00:52:25.880
no, he did it. On
January sixteenth, twenty eighteen, Madson

696
00:52:25.960 --> 00:52:30.360
was indicted for sexual crimes, dismemberment, desecration of a grave, crimes against

697
00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:37.639
maritime law, and homicide that took
place with prior planning and preparation. It

698
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:43.039
was learned that Madson brought a saw
knife, sharpened screwdrivers, straps, zip

699
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:47.280
ties, and pipes aboard the ship
so I board the submarine on August tenth.

700
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:52.599
Prosecutors believe Matson bound, beat and
stabbed Kim before killing her, possibly

701
00:52:52.639 --> 00:52:59.039
by choking her or cutting her throat. It was later learned he had slept

702
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:02.360
next to Kim's hapitated body before throwing
her remains into the sea. Oh my

703
00:53:02.440 --> 00:53:07.840
god, man, the murder of
Kim Wall's was deeply upsetting to the people

704
00:53:07.840 --> 00:53:10.559
of Denmark. It has been difficult
for them to fathom the grizzly crime and

705
00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:16.519
to imagine someone is highly regarded as
Peter Madsen responsible for them. Matson's biography

706
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:23.840
Rocket Madsen, written by Danish writer
Thomas Jersing. It was pulled from stores

707
00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:28.039
after it came under criticism, and
he had hoped to write another volume.

708
00:53:28.400 --> 00:53:31.159
I really wanted to read it,
but I couldn't find it. Before his

709
00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:36.800
trial, a judge ordered Matson to
have a psychiatric evaluation. The results weren't

710
00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:39.719
made public, but at the trial
it was disclosed that he was diagnosed as

711
00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:45.119
a psychopath and a malignant narcissist.
I'm sure you're shocked. I'm not shocked

712
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:47.920
at all. He was found to
have a serious lack of empathy, guilt

713
00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:53.320
or remorse, and called personally deviant. The trial began on March eighth,

714
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:58.480
twenty eighteen. Matson was tried for
murder and decent handling of a corpse and

715
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:02.159
sexual assault due to the stabbings in
her vaginal area. During the trial,

716
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:07.800
Peter tried floating a new theory as
to how Kim had died. He claimed

717
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.800
she died from carbon monoxide poisoning from
exhaust fumes in the engine room aboard the

718
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:15.960
vessel while he was on the deck
making a repair, He claimed the air

719
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:20.239
pressure dropped, suddenly, filling the
engine room with exhaust, and he wasn't

720
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:23.679
able to open the hatch. When
he finally did, he found Kim unconscious.

721
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:29.559
Matson said he lied to protect the
walls. The gruesome truth, Hey

722
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:35.400
when they say that? Beheading girl
and agony were among Google searches found on

723
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:39.400
Peter's phone. The searches were done
just prior to kimboarding the submarine. Text

724
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:44.559
messages were found on his phone telling
other women about his desire to dismember a

725
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:49.880
woman on his submarine. Although semen
was found in Madsen's underwear, no proof

726
00:54:49.920 --> 00:54:53.239
of rape was ever found. Thirty
six witnesses were called during the seven week

727
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:58.960
trial, among them four women who
testified that Matson had invited them aboard his

728
00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:02.760
submarine in August before contacting Kim Wall. Oh my god, those women must

729
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:07.920
have I can't even imagine they thought. They really had a hard time processing

730
00:55:07.960 --> 00:55:12.760
that. Yeah, and he didn't
care who he killed, He just wanted

731
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:15.960
to tell someone. Madsen's wife was
excused from testifying against him. She did

732
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:20.920
attend the trial, but divorced him
soon after. Kim's boyfriend and mother gave

733
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:28.320
heartbreaking testimony. Ten former interns and
volunteers testified against Madsen. The prosecution admitted

734
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.599
that Kim's cause of death was undetermined, but it was intentional and sexually motivated.

735
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:36.440
They guessed that Madsen bound Kim before
splitting her throat or strangling her.

736
00:55:36.960 --> 00:55:39.679
The most damning evidence against Madson was
the violent videos on his phone and his

737
00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:45.519
Internet searches. He was found guilty
on all counts by a panel of three

738
00:55:45.599 --> 00:55:49.199
judges and sentenced to life in prison, which is rarely used in Denmark.

739
00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:54.239
A life sentence is about sixteen years
for twelve years that convicted can request a

740
00:55:54.320 --> 00:56:00.119
parole hearing. Really, sentences can
be extended for violent criminals. Mads and

741
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:02.639
sentence will most likely be lengthened.
I think I think they should rename that

742
00:56:02.679 --> 00:56:07.960
instead of Probably shouldn't be called life
in prison if it's only twelve years.

743
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:13.280
In twenty eighteen, Jenny Kerpin,
a Russian activist, artist and journalists,

744
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.360
sought out a relationship with Madsen.
She has a Russian exile who lives in

745
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:22.119
Finland. They married on December nineteenth, twenty nineteen, in the prison where

746
00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:24.679
he resides. She wrote in a
post on her Facebook page, quote,

747
00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:29.440
my husband committed a horrible crime,
and he has punished for that. However,

748
00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:32.119
knowing him for real gives me an
exclusive right to say that I am

749
00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:37.280
lucky to be with them. Sorry, I'm starting to feel conscious. The

750
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:42.480
most beautiful, smart, talented,
devoted, and empathetic person I've ever met.

751
00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:46.360
My husband is one of two victims
of his crime, and staying alive

752
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:52.599
was a punishment itself for him.
Okay whatever. They divorced. In January

753
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:57.000
twenty twenty twenty two. After their
divorced, Jenny said quote, we spent

754
00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.719
almost three years together, which feels
like ten in the condition we were given.

755
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:05.199
It was a wonderful and terrible time. It took a lot from me,

756
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:07.400
but gave me a lot too.
I still respect my ex husband and

757
00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:12.800
wish him happiness, new achievements,
and as good a future as possible in

758
00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:17.320
this hard situation. In twenty eighteen, Madsen was briefly hospitalized after he was

759
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:22.880
assaulted by another inmate that inmates should
have tried harder. It was well known

760
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:29.840
that Madsen was a high risk prisoner
because of his intelligent intelligence, industriousness,

761
00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:32.960
and violent tendencies. He was mostly
kept in isolation, but somehow. In

762
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:38.239
twenty twenty, Peter fabricated a gun
he threatened to guard and escaped from prison.

763
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:44.360
He abducted a female prison psychologist and
held her hostage. He had a

764
00:57:44.360 --> 00:57:47.559
relationship with someone in the prison.
I'm not sure if it was psychologist or

765
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:52.400
it was a guard, but he
forced her into a prison van and made

766
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:55.639
her drive through the prison gates.
Madsen was soon found half a mile away

767
00:57:55.880 --> 00:58:00.920
from the prison, but it was
discovered when law enforcement attempted to capture him

768
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:05.119
he was wearing a belt that he
had created out of explosives. He was

769
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:08.199
handcuffed to a fence while they waited
for the bomb squad to arrive. Once

770
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:12.280
they did, it was determined the
belt was not made of real explosives.

771
00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:15.199
Because your face, I'm just like, this story is just blowing my mind.

772
00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:20.119
I know. After his Shenanigans,
an additional twenty one months was added

773
00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:24.000
to his sentence. Extra chime won't
be added to his sentence necessarily, but

774
00:58:24.079 --> 00:58:29.119
he will not be able to request
parole for an additional twenty one months.

775
00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:35.400
So when will he be able to
request parole, I'm not sure. In

776
00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:39.039
twenty twenty one, Denmark passed a
new bill for prisoners of serving life sentences

777
00:58:39.079 --> 00:58:45.280
that limits their contact and correspondence to
only people they had known before their prisons

778
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:47.840
sentence. After it was learned a
seventeen year old girl fell in love with

779
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:55.000
Peter Madsen after writing to him online. Oh God yeah. Danish prisons,

780
00:58:55.000 --> 00:58:59.559
by the way, are less authoritarian
than in the US. Prisoners are allowed

781
00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:02.320
to wear their own clothing, cook
their own meals, and have more personal

782
00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:08.039
freedom. Drugs and inmate fighting are
common, but allowed to happen. Recidivism

783
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:12.880
is as low as twenty seven percent, compared to about seventy seven percent for

784
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:17.280
convicts in the US over five years. The autonomy offered in Danish prisons make

785
00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:22.400
prisoners feel more humane and hopeful.
In the United States, convicts have nothing

786
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:27.480
to look forward to and less reason
to follow the rules. Scandinavian prisons believe

787
00:59:27.519 --> 00:59:32.360
in reforming, while US prisons believe
in punishing. Denmark does have a much

788
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:37.760
lower crime rate. They average about
fifty homicides a year, or one per

789
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:43.519
one hundred thousand people, and the
US. The US had about twenty thousand

790
00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:49.639
homicides last year, or six per
one hundred thousand. So I think the

791
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.679
way that they do the prisons there, it just sounds like maybe too much

792
00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:58.039
freedom. But I think, well, I'm not like I agree with a

793
00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:00.920
lot of you know, I think
they are approach because I do. I

794
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:05.679
do think prisons in the US are
more about punishment less about rehabilitation. But

795
01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:07.320
at the same time, if you
commit a crime like he did, like

796
01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:12.119
to be able to get out in
thirteen years or whatever it's gonna end up

797
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:15.119
being that just seems insane to me. But also the severe the amount of

798
01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:19.679
severe crimes there, like that's their
worst, the worst crime that's ever happened

799
01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:22.480
there. Yeah, And here there's
a lot more crime and the crimes are

800
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:27.599
more intense, So I can kind
of understand how people would think that,

801
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:31.239
you know, yeah, they're more
rehabilitatable because their crimes are less severe,

802
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:37.800
right, and just the amount of
people and it's just mind boggling. But

803
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:40.760
our prisons definitely could do with something. We could do use some reform,

804
01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:45.599
for sure. There have been several
film projects about Peter Madsen and Kim Wall.

805
01:00:46.320 --> 01:00:51.960
Filmmaker Robert Fox made a documentary about
Madison called My Private Submarine in two

806
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:55.039
thousand and nine. I couldn't find
it after that documentary though, that's when

807
01:00:55.079 --> 01:01:00.960
he kind of became an anti establishment
hero. In twenty sixteen, document mentory

808
01:01:00.079 --> 01:01:06.920
called Amateurs and Space highlighted the breakdown
of the relationship between Madsen and von Begston

809
01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:12.960
and the only version I could find
was on YouTube and it wasn't subtitle so

810
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:20.000
Into the Deep The Submarine Murderer,
a documentary by Australian Emma Sullivan, was

811
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:23.920
called Instrumental in the conviction of Madson. Peter Matson had agreed to allow Emma

812
01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:29.239
Sullivan to make a documentary about RML
Space Lab and the day's leading up to

813
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.039
the launch of their rocket, when
the focus on the documentary shifted from the

814
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:37.559
inventor site of Madson to the criminal
acts and the disappearance of Kim Wall.

815
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:43.280
It premiered at the Sundance Film Festival
in twenty twenty and I did watch that.

816
01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:45.480
I believe it was on Netflix and
it was. It was very good.

817
01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:47.840
It was really compelling because you could
you could kind of just see the

818
01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:52.119
breakdown of the man. Yeah,
The Investigation, which I had talked about

819
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:57.320
before, is available on HBO Max. It's a Danish mini mini series that

820
01:01:57.360 --> 01:02:02.559
portrays the investigation into Kim's death very
accurately. Her parents and detective Jens Moeller

821
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.519
cooperated in the making of the series. Peter Matson is not mentioned by name,

822
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:13.440
which I loved. He was only
referred to as the accused. The

823
01:02:13.480 --> 01:02:16.840
Wall's dog appears as himself though is
the series. They really love their dog.

824
01:02:17.440 --> 01:02:22.719
They live in a beautiful, you
know, seaside area. They took

825
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:27.320
their very They took their dog in
a lot of therapeutic walks during their time

826
01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:34.079
Ingrid and Joaquim Wall wrote a book
called A Silenced Voice. It's an emotional

827
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:37.639
account of the days following the disappearance
and death of Kim, interspersed with anecdotes

828
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:44.079
from Kim's childhood up to her career
her recent career. The Walls were very

829
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:46.679
proud of their daughter and devastated by
her death, and have done the best

830
01:02:46.679 --> 01:02:52.920
to honor her memory and perpetuate her
legacy. I read the book and it

831
01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:57.599
was very emotional. Yeah, I
can imagine the most important thing to Kim's

832
01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:00.440
parents is that she is remembered not
as a victim of Peter Matson, but

833
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:06.880
is a lively spirited, hardworking journalists
dedicated to telling important stories. They created

834
01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:09.880
the Kim Wall Memorial Fund in Kim's
honor after her death. Some days it

835
01:03:09.920 --> 01:03:14.880
was the only thing that kept them
going, keeping Kim's memory alived. For

836
01:03:14.920 --> 01:03:17.559
the past five years, they have
awarded several female journalists with the Cash Prize

837
01:03:17.559 --> 01:03:22.119
who possess a desire to travel and
pursue unique and hidden stories like Kim.

838
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:27.519
The Walls have received over four hundred
thousand dollars in donations around the globe in

839
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:31.360
Kim's memory. Ingrid and Joachim are
thrilled that Kim's legacy will continue to live

840
01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:36.719
beyond their lifetimes for decades to come. Columbia University, one of Kim's alma

841
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:38.880
maters, has a scholarship in her
name, and the Overseas Press Club of

842
01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:45.880
America has established an award in Kim's
honor. Kim has also received several posthumous

843
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:49.760
awards for her work. And you
and I we didn't talk about this at

844
01:03:49.800 --> 01:03:52.079
the top, I don't think,
but we have decided to use at least

845
01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:57.559
twenty five percent of our Patreon proceeds
to donate to different causes. Yeah,

846
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.960
and I think we'll donate to causes
that we talk about our That's what I

847
01:04:00.039 --> 01:04:03.360
talked, and it would be just
a great honor to donate to this fund

848
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:08.280
for me. Yep, for sure, Okay, wrapping up. Ola lives

849
01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:12.119
in Copenhagen, where he is co
owner and developer of a company called a

850
01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:16.800
flat Robot. He also works as
a game and interaction interaction design expert at

851
01:04:16.840 --> 01:04:21.199
Seriously Playful. He wrote an essay
in a Danish publication and talked about how

852
01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:26.320
hard it was to lose Kim when
they were about to embark on a journey

853
01:04:26.360 --> 01:04:31.559
together, intertwining their lives in China. The Nautilus was destroyed, which is

854
01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:34.519
great, should have been, but
those people who were so hard on it

855
01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:40.280
must have it must have been tough
for them. Police worked really hard,

856
01:04:40.599 --> 01:04:44.320
or I should say the divers worked
really hard to find the Kim's phone in

857
01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:45.639
Peter's phone, because I thought there
would have been a ton of evidence,

858
01:04:45.679 --> 01:04:50.639
but they were not able to find
them. Police have used Madsen's DNA to

859
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:55.159
tie him to try to tie him
to other crimes against women in Sweden and

860
01:04:55.239 --> 01:04:58.440
Denmark, but so far they have
found no link. Because yeah, you

861
01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:02.000
would think that's start her c exactly. Yeah, so it's possible, but

862
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:06.920
so far they haven't found a link. At a memorial at Columbia University for

863
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.280
Kim. Her brother wrote, I'm
going to have you read it because I

864
01:05:10.360 --> 01:05:14.039
keep crying. They say that the
pen is mightier than the sword, and

865
01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:16.119
they might be right. But for
Kim, her pen was her sword,

866
01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:20.320
and she used her sword not for
violence, but for something far more powerful.

867
01:05:20.519 --> 01:05:25.559
For telling stories. Armed with nothing
but her wits, a notepad,

868
01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:30.440
and her trusted Japanese gel inked ballpoint
pen, she gave a voice to those

869
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:33.440
who had something important to say.
She will never write a single word ever

870
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:38.880
again, but others might, and
that's exactly how we should remember and honor

871
01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:43.199
her, by remembering the words that
she wrote, what she stood for and

872
01:05:43.280 --> 01:05:47.760
what she believed in, and striving
to follow in her footsteps. Thank you,

873
01:05:48.679 --> 01:05:53.559
that's very nice. I almost get
you did. I mean, she

874
01:05:53.639 --> 01:05:57.440
was just such an amazing young woman. I'm just proud to do this story

875
01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:01.559
in her honor. The pen.
I bought the pen I forgot to bring

876
01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:05.360
it today, but her favorite pen, which she loved. These pens so

877
01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:09.480
much, she would just give them
to people. But they're called mugie pens.

878
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:13.679
M u j I I got them
on Amazon. I didn't love the

879
01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:15.400
pen, but I'm guessing there's different
versions. I didn't love it either,

880
01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:19.679
but I'm hoping there's like a one
that is a little bit like more rollie.

881
01:06:19.880 --> 01:06:24.039
Yeah, it was kind of like
a yeah that you had too much

882
01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:31.159
drag to it. Yeah. We
have very strong opinions about pens and Okay,

883
01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:38.199
so now let's discuss a few things. Okay, Kim has received criticism,

884
01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:42.000
and that's just what. Well,
why did people were like, why

885
01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:45.039
did she go down into his submarine? Why was she wearing a skirt?

886
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:51.360
Yeah, isn't that disgusting? It
is? And a Danish Danish author Jen's

887
01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:57.719
Christian Grondahl said, commenting on a
photo of Kim on Matson submarine, quote,

888
01:06:57.760 --> 01:07:00.599
it's never the woman's fault if a
man decides to at hacker. But

889
01:07:00.679 --> 01:07:02.639
that said, well, when I
look at the picture of the victim,

890
01:07:02.719 --> 01:07:06.400
the way she has let herself be
photographed, the look she gives the camera,

891
01:07:06.760 --> 01:07:10.679
I can't help but think that this
is a girl who's looking for trouble.

892
01:07:11.119 --> 01:07:14.360
Jesus, isn't that horrible? That
is horrible? They were disgusting.

893
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:20.119
Rumors that Kim and Peter were having
an affair. No, no, that

894
01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:26.639
they had met the first time that
day It's just bothers me so much.

895
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:31.840
People commented that she shouldn't she should
have worn pants, which is again ridiculous.

896
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:35.639
And the timing, the time.
The timing is one thing that I

897
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:41.679
just bought mind boggling to me because
it's literally like the next day or two

898
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:45.840
he was supposed to launch the rocket, and why would he take any chances

899
01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:49.360
of Yeah, though that I mean, obviously he's a sick person and he's

900
01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:53.840
a psychopath, but just the fact
that he was such a high profile person

901
01:07:54.440 --> 01:07:58.840
and to do this to kill someone
else who was fairly high profile, also

902
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:06.199
just really mind boggling. I know, it just seems so self what's the

903
01:08:06.199 --> 01:08:10.440
word, I'm destructive? I mean
just completely destructive, like it's like the

904
01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:14.280
pinnacle of your career. But I
think that he the nugget is that he

905
01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:16.760
knew this rocket was not going to
launch, was part of it, and

906
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:21.239
he just was ready to self destructive. Yeah, I guess. And there's

907
01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:26.079
he has, Like he had a
blog. I couldn't really find much about

908
01:08:26.079 --> 01:08:28.920
the blog, but in the blog
he talked a lot about heaven and hell

909
01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:33.079
and how it's a human being you
want to live in both and he wanted

910
01:08:33.079 --> 01:08:39.600
to experience the ultimate hell, and
I guess he achieved that. Yeah,

911
01:08:40.760 --> 01:08:42.960
and we talked about this a little
bit earlier. But the number of people

912
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:45.439
who worked for Peter to make his
vision become a reality, they just must

913
01:08:45.439 --> 01:08:49.039
have been so devastated because they really
didn't believe in him. They were volunteers,

914
01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:54.680
your volunteers, and they sacrificed a
lot of theirs themselves. And to

915
01:08:54.720 --> 01:09:00.600
see those projects get destroyed, they
probably just went across the street and worked

916
01:09:00.640 --> 01:09:09.119
for Copenhagen's suborbitals. And the irony
of Peter building a small, enclosed you

917
01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:13.199
know, his inventions were all small
and enclosed, and now he's in prison,

918
01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:16.239
it's little a little bit ironic.
Well at the door or the prisons

919
01:09:16.279 --> 01:09:20.760
in Denmark are much like a dorm. They look they look pretty, they

920
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:25.119
look pretty nice. Actually, yeah, that's it. That is a story

921
01:09:25.239 --> 01:09:28.520
of Kim Wall. Well, that
story blew my mind. I have to

922
01:09:28.520 --> 01:09:30.960
say, I don't know, I
can't believe it wasn't already familiar with it

923
01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:34.760
at all, but just what a
crazy story it really is. And thank

924
01:09:34.760 --> 01:09:41.119
you so much to to Dianna for
recommending that Casey, and just so yeah,

925
01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:43.319
I mean we've said it before,
but it's just so sad, like

926
01:09:43.359 --> 01:09:46.239
she was such a great person and
had so much potential to do so much

927
01:09:46.279 --> 01:09:49.520
more with their life. Yeah,
I'll put pictures of her, but in

928
01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:53.960
her pictures you just I mean,
she's you saw a few pictures and she's

929
01:09:54.000 --> 01:09:57.319
just you know, you could tell
from her picture like just an a builliant,

930
01:09:57.520 --> 01:10:01.479
beautiful young woman who just really lovely. I have a lot of sources,

931
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:08.399
will post them. But I did
read the Walls book, and I

932
01:10:08.439 --> 01:10:13.279
really it was really very poignant,
cool, but that's all I have.

933
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:17.680
Well, thank you for telling that
story. Well done, as always well

934
01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:23.800
every time. And I need I
need to, like I need to harness

935
01:10:23.880 --> 01:10:26.239
this a little bit. But I
thought I was done a week ago,

936
01:10:26.279 --> 01:10:29.960
but then I discovered the Walls Book
and then I discovered like this sixth part

937
01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:31.760
minis and I was like, well, I need to watch these and so

938
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:34.760
yeah, it's it's hard because I
really want to consume as much as I

939
01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:38.319
can, but it's hard to do
it in a timely manner. Yep,

940
01:10:38.399 --> 01:10:40.800
Well you did a great job.
We'll rest in peace, Kim, because

941
01:10:41.399 --> 01:10:45.359
I am so excited to be able
to contribute to her fund to journalism moving

942
01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:48.000
forward, yep, for sure.
All right, well, what are we

943
01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:50.720
going to do the rest of our
day? Labor day? You have the

944
01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:56.760
day off, I'm gonna labor and
he did do some work. You've been

945
01:10:56.800 --> 01:10:59.720
a busy fellow. Yeah, it
works a little bit stressful at the moment

946
01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:03.000
leading up to this Paris trip.
But yeah, I think you're gonna go

947
01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:06.039
out and do a little shopping with
our daughter. Maybe. Yeah, I

948
01:11:06.039 --> 01:11:11.439
guess you're not going to come with
no stay home and get some work done.

949
01:11:11.920 --> 01:11:15.159
All right, Well that's all I
have, so find us on Patreon,

950
01:11:15.840 --> 01:11:20.159
find us at on Instagram. Got
some things to work out. We're

951
01:11:20.199 --> 01:11:23.920
not really sure what we're going to
do with the Patreon. I'm hoping to

952
01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:29.359
have an episode post, if not
the next week but soon. Yeah,

953
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:31.560
sit the Patreon. They won't be
as in depth and they won't be as

954
01:11:31.560 --> 01:11:36.399
long because I spend four hundreds on
an episode, so I won't be able

955
01:11:36.439 --> 01:11:42.079
to do that, but it'll hopefully
still be good episode. It's good cases

956
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:44.680
and if there's something you guys want
to here, I have a long list

957
01:11:44.680 --> 01:11:47.159
of things that I'm working through.
If you recommend a case, if I

958
01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:50.680
can find enough information or if you
can find enough information, We like to

959
01:11:50.720 --> 01:11:55.880
do them, but sometimes it's we
just can't find enough information for it.

960
01:11:56.600 --> 01:11:59.800
And if you've got feedback on what
you'd like to what you'd like to see

961
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:02.960
the Patreon also, we're definitely open
to ideas of what we can you know,

962
01:12:03.000 --> 01:12:06.359
any content we can deliver, anything
that would be interesting to folks.

963
01:12:06.840 --> 01:12:12.479
Yeah, well, thank you so
much for listening. We appreciate every one

964
01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:15.000
of you, We really do,
and we're going to keep saying this,

965
01:12:15.039 --> 01:12:19.640
but I can't believe it's been a
year almost and we're planning especially anniversary episodes.

966
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:24.119
So if you have any questions for
us, we will answer some questions.

967
01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:28.239
If you have any favorite episodes or
our memories or whatever, send that

968
01:12:28.319 --> 01:12:30.880
our way. You can email us
at Love Mary Kill at gmail dot com.

969
01:12:30.880 --> 01:12:38.399
You can direct message us on Twitter
or Instagram Twitter Twitter is no is

970
01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:43.399
anyone going to continue to call it
X I mean, I think it's always

971
01:12:43.439 --> 01:12:45.479
going to be Twitter run threads,
just like Max is always going to be

972
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:49.800
HBO. We could go into a
whole thing on branding, but let's not

973
01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:54.239
do that today. Rich is a
marketing expert, all right, Well,

974
01:12:54.319 --> 01:12:57.119
until the next day. We love
you guys, don't kill your husband don't

975
01:12:57.199 --> 01:13:46.720
kill your wife. Hi, I'm
Tina and I'm rich. It's been a

976
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:54.600
while him. Hi, I'm Tina
and i'm rich. Serious, like you

977
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:55.800
remember what we say