June 15, 2026

Sandy and Tom Bird/Lorna and Marty Anderson - Part 2

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When 33-year-old Sandra Bird, a devoted mother and the wife of popular Faith Lutheran Church pastor Tom Bird, was found dead in the Cottonwood River near Emporia, Kansas, the town mourned what appears to be a tragic car accident. But Kansas Highway Patrol Trooper John Rule felt like something was off. From a complete lack of skid marks to mysterious bloodstains found where they shouldn’t have been, the physical evidence just didn’t add up.

Months later, the community was rocked again when Martin Anderson, the husband of the church's secretary, Lorna Anderson, was gunned down on a dark highway in an apparent robbery gone wrong.

What followed was one of the most tangled criminal cases in Kansas history: competing trials, a jailhouse reversal, a made-for-TV movie, and a legal fight that stretched across nearly a decade.

Today’s snack: Lay's Argentinian-Style Steak with Chimichurri and Brazilian Style Garlic Sauce Chips

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WEBVTT

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Hi.

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I'm Rich and I'm Tina.

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If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years

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of marriage, it's that.

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Some days and you'll feel like killing your husband, and some.

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Days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill.

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Hey Tina, Hey Rich. How are you today?

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I am fabulous today. How are you?

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I am doing well. It's a beautiful day here in Michigan.

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Is a great saturday.

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Do you want to tell everyone what you just put

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out on the deck?

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I put some fruit out for our lovely.

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Birds and the vermin and the other creatures that you know,

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bump in the night in the neighborhood, the coyotes and

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I am raccoons. Nice that you want to support wildlife.

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I'm confident that the birds will get it. The reason

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is well, two reasons. One is I saw Baltimore Oriole

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yesterday at our It was at our hummingbird feeder, actually,

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but they love like the sweet stuff. They love fruit

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and stuff like that. And I think Baltimore Orios.

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Though, because they don't have the hummingbird, you must just

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be a little bit.

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Of the outside they I don't know they do. Actually,

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at least we talked about it. That so long ago.

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Woodpeckers have really longed. Okay, yeah, but I don't know

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about regular other birds. But I saw this beautiful, beautiful

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Baltimore orioles. I thought, well, I want to encourage them

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to come back. We need to get some oranges, though,

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because they really they really like the oranges. Yeah.

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I have actually done that before. It was at our

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old house and they came to the humming grew feeder

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and they never touched the oranges. But you know, I'm

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sure your oranges will be cut in such a passion,

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it'll be so exciting. Sure.

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But I also put it out because I was feeling

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guilty because I have not been taking good care of

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the birds.

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Now, I gave you one job, and you but it's

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hard because if you fill up the bird feeders, they're

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empty within seven hours later. Yeah.

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So, but I did fill them up today too. The

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birds have plenty, plenty.

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Of food, eats, And I said, you put the food

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on a plan. Yeah yeah, because birds. Well I'm making

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fun of you, but I have done all of these

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things before, and I don't think they've ever eaten off

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the plate. Oh really, I think if you maybe scatter

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them on the ground they might eat them, but I

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don't think that. And we'll see.

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I guess, well, I guess we'll spink in an hour.

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By the end of the podcast, we'll go see how

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much becauld you put like strawberries and grapes and grace.

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That's it. Yeah, okay, I need to put a camera

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out though, to monitor their activity.

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We had this idea like twenty years ago, and we

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never did anything with it. But now there's tons of

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bird feeders with cameras.

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Yeah, I should should have done it. You have another

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business idea that we just never.

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Followed own initiative at all, except for this podcast that

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we keep coming back for.

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That's right. I wanted to tell you look nice today.

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I really like your new shirt. You new you have

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a new stripey blue shirt.

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The only reason you know that this is a new

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shirt is because I got it from Amazon. I know

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I shouldn't order shirts from Amazon, but I need some

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new summer clothes, so I ordered a few tea shir

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It's from Amazon, and when they're delivered, they're delivered in

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a clear a clear ziploc bags.

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Everyone in the whole.

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Neighborhood knows that Tina is wearing a new shirt that

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she got yesterday.

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Well, it does look very nice though. It looks good

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on you. I know most people tell you you're a fall

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person because primarily your hair color. But I think summer.

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I think you you could give summer a run for

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its money.

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What are you? What are you talking about?

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I think you're you know, your personal style. Yeah, you

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look good in summer type colors and clothing.

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It's nice that you said the word personal style, because

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I really don't feel that I have a personal style.

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Well, I think you look very nice.

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Well that's very nice if you just that you look

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good too. And your skincare routine, it's poppened. It's definitely

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out there. We actually had this discussion already this morning

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that you have been using a few products and we

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still are using the led mask, which I've been breaking out,

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but I think it's because I got a new Oh

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my gosh, this is boring, isn't it. But I got

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a new SPF lotion and I feel like it's breaking

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me out. But the mask does make breakouts clear up faster. Yeah.

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I definitely looked ten years younger, so I'm pretty happy

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about that. At least ten at least we would you

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like a snack.

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I have not eaten yet today.

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Okay, well it's not as exciting as our snack from

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part one. I made something, but this was a store

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bought snack. Okay, but I feel like the snack makers

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have gone crazy with flavors, Like they have just gone nuts,

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Like they put out one hundred different flavors and they

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do whatever do you do? You want to tell people

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what kind of chips you brought home the other day?

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Oh, I forgot about that. I put that, you know,

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out of my mind because it was so ridiculous. I

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went to Costco. And this is going to sound crazy

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to people, but we didn't really have any chips in

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the house, like potato chips, and you know, when we're

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having a sandwich, you want to I want chips in

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my sandwich. You want chips on the side. And I

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don't know what I was thinking. It was at Costco

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and I bought this bag of chips. They were called

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Hamburger chips, and I'm just so dumb sometimes I thought

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that they were just chips that you ate with the

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Hamburger or that was the brand names.

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I don't think that's a bad assumption, but the.

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Chips were actually Hamburger cheeseburger flavor and not a fan.

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No, they were awful.

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They were horrible. We both ate one and we were.

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Like, nope, So I brought some. I bought some chips

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from Lays and they've made a couple of weird flavors. Yeah,

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I thought we're unusual. One is Brazilian style Garlic sauce

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flavor and the other is Argentinian style steak with Jimmy Turi. Okay,

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and I bought these before you bought your Hamburger flavor.

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Oh that must have made you really chuckle that.

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I think this is some sort of World Cup tie in,

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like I guess, but I don't know. They sound weird,

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but I thought, well, let's give them a try.

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You know, I've been off garlic lately. I feel like

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garlic believe we talk about all these things on the podcast.

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By garlic cupsets my stomach sometimes. So I'll just have

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one little chick, I'll just have one little chip.

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What did you think of those?

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I thought they were both actually really really good.

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Oh really, I didn't really like much.

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I think they were both good. The garlic one, though,

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is eving like a like an icky after it taste him.

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But yeah, I think I have not eaten a morsel

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food yet today, so that's probably why they taste so

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good to me. But yeah, I thought they're both really good.

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I like the garlic ones, but the steak ones I

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thought were like as bad, almost as bad as the

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hamburger ones that you brought home.

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So no, I think they're both pretty pretty solid. I'd

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give them. Maybe the garlic ones were a little better,

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eight out of ten for those, seven out of ten

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for the other.

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Wow, I'm going to give the garlic a six out

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of ten and the steak a three out of ten.

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So now, because I bought all those barbecue chips a

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few weeks ago, we are our chip were well stocked.

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You need to hire someone to come eat food in

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our house because now that the kids aren't really here

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very much. Yeah, we and we.

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Try something for a snack for the podcast, and if

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we don't really like it, it's sort of like, well, yeah,

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how about we get back to the story of Sandy

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and tom Bird and Lorna and Marty Anderson. Let's would

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you like to give us a recap of part one?

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Sure? Last ap is and so we introduced you to

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two couples living in Emporia, Kansas in the early nineteen eighties.

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Tom and Sandy Bird had come to Emporia in nineteen

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eighty two when Tom was called to lead a brand

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new Lutheran congregation. He was charismatic and tireless, the kind

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of pastor you could build something, who could build something

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from nothing. Sandy was his equal in every way, a mathematician,

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a teacher, a mother of three, just not the traditional

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pastor's wife that he seemed to want. By the spring

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of nineteen eighty three, the cracks in their marriage were

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beginning to show. The other couple was Marty and Lorna Anderson.

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Marty was the chief lab technician at a local hospital, competent,

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proud of his work, devoted to his four daughters. Lorna

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was the woman the neighborhood called a supermom. She was

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also conducting a string of affairs that was, by nineteen

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eighty three, an open secret among their social circle. She

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told a friend the new man in her life was

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Tom Bird, who she was working for as church secretary.

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On the night of July sixteenth, eight eighty three, Sandy

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Bird's car went off a sixty five foot embankment into

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the Cottonwood River. She was found dead the next morning.

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The county corner ruled it an accident. Highway patrol man

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John Rule didn't believe it, but he couldn't get anyone

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to listen. Three and a half months later, Marty Anderson

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was shot three times in the head on a lonely

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stretch of Kansas Highway while his wife and four daughters

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waited nearby. Two deaths and two different counties, just waiting

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to be connected.

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Anything I missed in the recap that would be worth adding.

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Nothing that you missed necessarily, But when Marty was shot,

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it was It just didn't make any sense, because why

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had they stopped.

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They stopped. She said that they stopped because she was

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sick to her stomach. She had eaten part of her

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daughter's strawberry Sunday and she was allergic to strawberries, and

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so she got out to go throw up in the field.

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Essentially, Yeah, and then some guy comes and shoots Marty.

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He demands his wallet, like, yeah, some you know robbers

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are hanging out in a Kansas cornfield waiting for someone

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to pull over.

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Yeah, And then they took him to the like the

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middle of the cornfield and shot him out of the

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site of the kids. So that just seemed very odd.

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Yeah, and the Sandy's accident seemed very odd too. It

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seems obvious in hindsight that it was not an accident

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because there was blood up in like trees, like on

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branches way off the ground. There was blood on top

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of the bridge like there had been an altercation on

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the bridge, and perhaps she had been thrown over the

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side and.

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Her car went through this narrow place where there were

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no guards.

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Yeah, it was very like it was very carefully planned,

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like it went through this one space where it could

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have gone through Geary County where Marty had been shot.

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Was working its case Lyon County, where Sandy Bird had

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gone into the Cottonwood River almost four months earlier, had

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moved on from Sandy's death. But when Tom Bird's name

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surfaced in the Anderson investigation as Lorna's spokesperson, a Kansas

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Bureau of Investigation agent picked up the phone and called

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his counterpart in Geary County. Followed was a flurry of activity.

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So when I say that Tom Byrd was Lorna's spokesperson,

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not sure exactly what that means. I think he just

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came to see her in the hospital, and he may

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have spoken to the press one time outside of the hospital,

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but I don't think he was like a spokesperson. Officially,

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John Rule got a call from the Kansas Bureau of Investigation.

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They wanted him back on the Rocky Ford Bridge case.

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By the end of November, people were coming forward in

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droves wanting to talk to the police about Lorna Anderson

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and Tom Byrd. Authorities in Geary County found themselves with

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more witnesses than they could process, individuals who wanted investigators

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to know that Lorna Anderson had approached them at one

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point or another about finding someone to kill her husband.

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The word circulating was that the reverend and his church

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00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:51.440
secretary were lovers, and that Tom Byrd had gone so

239
00:10:51.559 --> 00:10:53.639
far as to help Lorna look for a hit man,

240
00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.919
and as we often see in these situations, no one

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00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:01.080
went to the police. It drives me crazy. Apparently talked

242
00:11:01.080 --> 00:11:03.039
to a number of people about, you know, can you

243
00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.159
help me find a hit man to kill my husband?

244
00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.960
In this small rural town. She's asking about hit men.

245
00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:12.399
It's just a really bad idea. If you want to

246
00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:15.240
get away with murder that you're just asking random people

247
00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:16.200
in your small town.

248
00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:19.200
Yeah, and yet no one talked until after it happened.

249
00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:23.720
As investigators dug into Lorna's background, her former lovers began

250
00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:27.000
to talk. Detectives followed the trail from one name to

251
00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:29.960
the next, compiling what would eventually grow into a list

252
00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.360
of one hundred and twenty five men.

253
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:34.279
Are you kidding?

254
00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:35.519
I am not kidding.

255
00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.440
And she had romantic relationships with all of them.

256
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.039
I believe that is what they are saying here. I

257
00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.879
don't think they were all long term relationships. I think

258
00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.200
some of them were probably just one night stands.

259
00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:51.600
But yeah, I need to know the population of Emporia. Okay,

260
00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:54.159
so I did google it. The population of Emporia back

261
00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.399
then was about twenty five thousand, and half of those

262
00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:01.840
people would be men. A practim so sandy.

263
00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:06.399
About yeah, unless she ventured outside of the city limits,

264
00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:09.519
which she may have. Once they established that Tom Byrd

265
00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.960
was one of the men, he became a suspect. Reporters

266
00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:17.360
from Emporia and investigators from Geary County began comparing notes.

267
00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.879
The bigger pictures started to come into focus. A pastor

268
00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:25.240
and his church secretary romantically entangled and two dead spouses,

269
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.039
one at the bottom of a bridge embankment on a

270
00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:30.960
road that went nowhere, one on his knees in a

271
00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:32.120
Flint Hills field.

272
00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.120
I feel a little bad that we were shady about Lorna.

273
00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:37.840
If she were a single lady, go for it, right.

274
00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.799
She's married, so to you know, have relationships with that

275
00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:42.279
many men while.

276
00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:44.240
You're married, you know, Yeah, that's not cool.

277
00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.840
One day, a tip came in anonymously on the Kansas

278
00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:51.799
Bureau of Investigations hotline. A young woman said she knew

279
00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:55.440
that Danny Carter had been one of Laura's boyfriends and

280
00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:58.679
that Laurna had been calling him frequently over the past month.

281
00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:03.000
She thought he might be involved. Investigators would later learn

282
00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.279
that the caller was Danny's current girlfriend. Danny Carter was

283
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.840
thirty six years old. He'd been Lorna's hairdresser before leaving

284
00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:14.240
the job to work construction at the Wolf Creek Nuclear

285
00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.720
Power Plant. He had no criminal record and no particular

286
00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:23.039
reputation for toughness. On November eighteenth, investigators brought Danny Carter

287
00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:26.399
in for about forty five minutes with a detective playing

288
00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:30.240
at friendly Carter held firm. He knew nothing about Marty

289
00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:33.759
Anderson's murder, and a second detective came in and played

290
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:38.279
bad cop. The detective bluffed, suggesting he knew considerably more

291
00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:42.159
than he really did. Within five minutes, Carter was ready

292
00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:45.320
to talk. He told the detective that Lorna had asked

293
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.399
him if he knew anyone who might be willing to

294
00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:50.720
kill her husband. Danny said he might. He knew a

295
00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:55.080
man named Donald Curry who claimed connections to organized crime.

296
00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:58.879
Curry said he could arrange something. On the evening of

297
00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:03.159
September seventh, Lurna met Danny Carter outside of Emporia State Bank.

298
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.639
She handed him an envelope containing five thousand dollars in cash,

299
00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.320
photographs of Marty's station wagon, and a computer print out

300
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:13.799
of Marty's schedule for the next two weeks. Two weeks passed,

301
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.840
but nothing happened. Danny reached out to Curry to find

302
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:19.799
out why. Curry said he had passed the money along

303
00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:23.279
to a man in Mississippi. The man in Mississippi claimed

304
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.919
that he knew nothing about any deal. Danny Carter was

305
00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.159
emphatic although they had discussed a deal, nothing had actually happened.

306
00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:34.399
Laurna must have found someone else to do the deed.

307
00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.120
It was a little bit convoluted here, but Lorna she

308
00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.639
was sleeping with Danny Carter, who was her hairdresser at

309
00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:42.600
the time. She talked to him and said, Hey, you

310
00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:44.120
know anyone who can do this? He said, oh, I

311
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:48.360
know this guy, this Curry guy. She gave Danny Carter money.

312
00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:50.960
He gave it to Curry. Curry gave it to another

313
00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:53.559
man who he said he knew, and this other man

314
00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:55.919
apparently said, I'm just going to keep the money.

315
00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.799
Who can blame him? Who were they going to call?

316
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.840
Right long before Marty's murder did this money exchange hands?

317
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.440
It was about two months. This happened in early September.

318
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:07.279
Marty was killed in early November.

319
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.519
When he heard that his brother Danny was arrested, Daryl

320
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:14.120
Carter went to Danny's lawyer with the story. Daryl Carter

321
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.679
was a lifelong Lion County resident, a self employed building

322
00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:21.080
contractor in his late thirties, married for nineteen years with

323
00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:24.320
three kids. He had known Marty and Lorna Anderson through

324
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:27.000
a social circle, and he would eventually admit that he

325
00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:31.200
and Lorna had been more than casual acquaintances. He came forward.

326
00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.279
He said to do anything he could to keep his

327
00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.519
brother out of prison. What he told investigators took the

328
00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:40.240
case in a new direction. Entirely it had started, Darrell

329
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:43.200
said about two years before Marty's death, when Lorna had

330
00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:46.039
asked him if he knew anyone who would kill her husband.

331
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:49.480
He told her that he was shocked. Marty was his friend.

332
00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:53.480
Three months later, she asked again, wanting to know if

333
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.600
he'd found anyone. He said that he hadn't really looked.

334
00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:58.720
He didn't hear from her again on the subject for

335
00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:01.360
a long time. Then, in the third week of May

336
00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.200
nineteen eighty three, Lorna called him and asked him to

337
00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:06.919
stop by the church. Lorna brought him back to her

338
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.440
office and they talked for a few minutes. Then a

339
00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.840
man Darrell had never met walked in. Lorna introduced him

340
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.799
as Tom Bird. She announced that Tom was going to

341
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.080
help her and Darrell kill her husband. Darryl said he

342
00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:22.320
was stunned, he had never agreed to any such thing.

343
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.200
The three of them sat together while Tom and Lorna

344
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:29.039
laid out two plans. The first involved getting Marty drunk

345
00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.639
or drugged, putting him in a car and driving it

346
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.600
off as steep embankment into a river. It would look

347
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.519
like a drunk had missed a curve. Tom mentioned he

348
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.000
had already found a good spot south of town where

349
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.080
this could work. Darrell's rule would be to help get

350
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:46.519
Marty into the car. The second plan didn't require Darrell

351
00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:49.200
at all. On a weekend, when Marty was staying at

352
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:52.320
a relative's home for an army reserve drill, Tom would

353
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.279
break into the house, toss the furniture around, and shoot

354
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.080
Marty when he came home. It would look like he'd

355
00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:02.559
interrupted a burglary. Darryl recalled him, saying, plan to preside

356
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:05.359
over the funeral because as the minister, no one would

357
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.680
suspect him. When Darryl said he wasn't a cold blooded

358
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.319
killer and had never done anything like that in his life,

359
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:14.319
tom Bird looked at him and said, why haven't either.

360
00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.039
I'm a man of God, and I'm going to kill

361
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:18.079
Martin Anderson.

362
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.160
It's interesting that this plotting actually started like two years

363
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.079
before Marty's death, even before Lorna was having an affair

364
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.920
with Tom Bird, and then she apparently brought Tom byrd

365
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.279
in after they were having an affair, and then they

366
00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.240
called this Daryl guy who take it for what it's worth.

367
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:38.359
Daryl was trying to save his brother. And you know,

368
00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:41.000
Daryl didn't report any of this to the police beforehand,

369
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.640
but Darryl is saying that, you know, they brought him

370
00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:46.519
in six months before trying to get his help in

371
00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.079
killing Marty. So this was something that Lorna had been

372
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:50.240
planning for a long time.

373
00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:53.039
How long had the affair been going on.

374
00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:56.160
Not very long at that point, Like, we don't know

375
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.960
for sure, but we think it started in early nineteen

376
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:01.599
eighty three, so the affair might have been going on

377
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:03.880
for two or three months at this point. When they

378
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:05.400
approached Daryl Carter.

379
00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:09.079
Daryl left without committing to anything. Two days later, Tom

380
00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:12.119
tracked him down at a construction site and asked if

381
00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.039
he'd made up his mind. Darryl put him off, made

382
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.400
another appointment, and deliberately didn't show up. He told a

383
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:21.319
coworker what he'd heard and no one else. He didn't

384
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.160
hear from Tom or Lorna again until six months later,

385
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.119
after Marty was dead and his brother was in handcuffs

386
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:31.960
for investigators. One detail in Darrell's account hit with particular force.

387
00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:34.359
The plan to get a man drunk, put him in

388
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:37.200
a car and push it off an embankment into a river.

389
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.480
Tom had said he'd already found a good spot south

390
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:44.960
of town. South of town, rocky Ford Bridge, sat four

391
00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.960
miles south of Emporia, at the bottom of a sixty

392
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.319
five foot drop into the Cottonwood River. The plot sounded

393
00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.960
exactly like what had happened to Sandy Bird. I just

394
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.559
don't know why Darryl wouldn't have gone to the police,

395
00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:00.920
or would have, at a minimum set I want no

396
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:01.480
part of this.

397
00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:03.640
I mean, he might have been scared. You know, if

398
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.079
you're pulled into a situation like that, you might you

399
00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.319
might not want to confront the person who is, you know,

400
00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:11.880
plotting a murder because you don't want to be next

401
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:13.759
on the list. But but yeah, the fact that he

402
00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:18.160
didn't go to the police is a little disturbing. It's interesting.

403
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.880
It seems that the way that Sandy was eventually killed

404
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:23.359
was originally the plot to kill Marty.

405
00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:25.839
Or one of them will be back after a break.

406
00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.359
Three days after Daryl Carter came forward, police searched the

407
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:40.359
Anderson home on Meadow Lark Lane. They were looking for

408
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:44.000
a twenty two caliber weapon and Marty's missing wallet, they

409
00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:47.680
found neither. What they found instead was something intriguing in

410
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:53.160
Lurna's lingerie drawer. Two envelopes, one marked Thursday, one marked Friday.

411
00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:56.119
If you recall, Marty had been killed on a Friday.

412
00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.599
Inside each was a note, both signed from Tom. The

413
00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.559
Thursday note read, in part I love you and am

414
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.400
confident of the future and that makes the present okay.

415
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.480
Take care of the kids. Love you always, Tom, and

416
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.680
then an excerpt from the Friday note said, Lorna, you

417
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.759
are so very special. I hope time goes fast until

418
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.200
Saturday evening. It should, with all the work and the children.

419
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:23.759
I love you so very much and that's forever Tom.

420
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.160
So it almost sounds like these were notes encouraging her,

421
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.920
trying to support her getting through a difficult couple of days.

422
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:35.319
There was also an unfinished letter, handwritten on notebook paper

423
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.799
by Lorna, addressed to Tom. Part of it read, I

424
00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.200
want you to read this letter over and over whenever

425
00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:44.039
you have any doubts about my love for you, our future,

426
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:47.119
our commitment to each other, or our commitment to God.

427
00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:49.519
And I'm sure there will be times when you will

428
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:51.960
need to remind me of what this says. So hide

429
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:54.720
it somewhere safe, but try to keep it. I love you,

430
00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:56.960
and I know that you know that, just like I

431
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.960
know you love me. Two days later, was arrested at

432
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:04.720
a relative's home in Topeka, charged with conspiracy to commit

433
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.279
first degree murder. She posted bond and moved to Hutchinson,

434
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:12.359
staying with her parents around Emporia. The arrest didn't come

435
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.240
as much of a surprise. By the end of November,

436
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:19.200
Tom Bird was hearing things. The investigation was circling closer,

437
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.039
and word had reached him that Daryl Carter was the

438
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.799
reason why. On December first, Tom went looking for a

439
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:28.799
woman he believed could get a message to Daryl, a

440
00:21:28.839 --> 00:21:31.839
woman who had been one of Carter's lovers. He told

441
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.039
her that he wanted to reaffirm a trust with Daryl,

442
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:37.599
but that he didn't want to use the phone. She

443
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.359
passed the message along. Carter, in turn called his attorney.

444
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.720
Ten days later, Carter called Tom. A Kansas Bureau of

445
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.119
Investigation agent was in the room with him and the

446
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.799
call was being recorded. Darrel and Tom arranged to meet

447
00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.519
on December twelfth in the parking lot of a bowling

448
00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:58.599
alley on Sixth Avenue. Carter arrived wearing a bulletproof vest

449
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:01.559
under his shirt and a radio transmitter on his body.

450
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:06.359
KBI agents were parked nearby listening. They had coached Carter

451
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:10.359
carefully make sure the conversation happens in Tom's car, because

452
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.920
people don't generally shoot someone in their own vehicle, and

453
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.759
get Tom to admit what had been planned that day

454
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:20.200
at the church. Carter, however, was not a natural at

455
00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:23.240
this The two men ended up in Carter's pickup truck

456
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.319
instead of Tom's car. Carter didn't ask a single direct question.

457
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.319
He never raised the meeting at the church, never mentioned

458
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:33.880
the plot, never pushed Tom toward anything that the Kansas

459
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.920
Bureau of Investigation was hoping to capture on tape. Instead,

460
00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:42.119
they talked around things Danny Carter's legal troubles, Lorna's arrest,

461
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.519
the police investigation, the rumors about Tom and Lorna's relationship

462
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:50.880
that Tom said were destroying his reputation. Tom was careful.

463
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.720
He wanted Carter to understand why they'd met at the

464
00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:56.440
church back in the spring. It was about the youth

465
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:59.519
group selling fireworks at one of Carter's stands. That was

466
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.680
all it did been. At one point, Carter asked whether

467
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.519
Tom thought Lorna had anything to do with Marty's death.

468
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:09.599
Tom said he was pretty sure she hadn't. Carter pressed

469
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:13.160
did he think she had done it? Tom paused, quote,

470
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.079
I know she talked about it before. I don't. I

471
00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.240
can't tell you what I think you know, but I

472
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:21.039
think she'd tell me, and she may one of these days.

473
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.720
Carter mentioned that the coincidence of Sandy's death and now

474
00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:28.160
Marty's made things look bad for both of them. Tom's

475
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.240
response was quiet, There's nothing I can do about that.

476
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:33.960
I'm just trying to exist and trying to build back

477
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.200
my life. As the conversation wound down, Tom said, I

478
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:40.240
don't think Laura will ever talk to me until it's

479
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:42.839
all over. And then I think maybe she'll talk to me,

480
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:44.720
but I don't know if it's ever going to be

481
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:48.079
all over. It wasn't the confession that the KBI had

482
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.400
been hoping for. Shortly after, Danny Carter pleaded guilty to

483
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:56.680
the reduced charge of criminal solicitation, he was released on

484
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:01.240
four years probation. A couple things interesting about this conversation.

485
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:03.759
One something I never really thought of before. But they

486
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:08.000
were worried that Tom could potentially shoot and kill Darryl,

487
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:10.160
so they, you know, put him in a bulletproof vest.

488
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.240
But they told him make sure you go in Tom's

489
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:15.039
car because someone's less likely to kill you in their

490
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:19.079
own car. Which, yeah, that is interesting to know, so good.

491
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:20.720
Good to keep in mind if you ever feel like

492
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.519
someone might be planning to.

493
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:26.079
Shoot you, Okay, not a concern I have offered, no.

494
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:28.799
Same same. The other thing I found interesting about this

495
00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:32.960
conversation is that Tom truly didn't He acted like he

496
00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:36.319
really didn't know whether Laurna was involved in this or not, saying, well,

497
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:38.799
she hasn't told me anything. She may tell me one day,

498
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:41.359
which could have been just him being careful, like maybe

499
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.119
he's specter. I mean, I don't, I don't know.

500
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.720
But you didn't hear the recording though, right, you just have.

501
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:50.240
The Oh, I just have the quotes from the recording.

502
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:51.839
Yeah, yeah, he knew.

503
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:54.880
Yeah I think he did too. But it's just interesting

504
00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:58.960
that he was so careful about his words here. Around

505
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:02.039
the end of December, Sandy's parents issued a statement through

506
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.839
their attorney. They fully supported Tom. They said they believed

507
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:09.519
he was innocent and were standing behind him completely. They

508
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:12.799
thought Sandy's death was suspicious, but they didn't believe tom

509
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:14.119
had anything to do with it.

510
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:17.359
Interesting, he must have been quite the charmer.

511
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.240
I think he must have been. In March of nineteen

512
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:23.839
eighty four, Tom Bird was charged with criminal solicitation to

513
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:27.079
commit murder in the death of Martin Andersen. He took

514
00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:30.000
a leave of absence from Faith Lutheran, returned to the

515
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:32.759
pulpit about a month later, and then resigned for good

516
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:36.880
in June. The case had by then spilled well beyond Emporia.

517
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:40.440
It reached across two counties and into a handful of states,

518
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.160
eventually involving seven law enforcement agencies in Kansas alone. The

519
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:48.880
headlines that followed were not subtle. A preacher's deadly sin

520
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:51.119
and I'm a man of God, and I'm going to

521
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:54.480
kill my lover's hubby. The congregation that had tripled in

522
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.160
size because of Tom Bird was left to find its

523
00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:00.559
footing without him. I can only imagine how much this

524
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.519
small town was just buzzing with gossip and umors. This

525
00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.279
is the preacher, right, It's got all these salacious elements.

526
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:09.519
He's having an affair with this woman who is also

527
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:12.359
having many, many affairs with multiple people.

528
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.559
And when he came to town, people loved him. Yeah, exactly,

529
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:16.000
the greatest.

530
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:18.440
Yeah. He was probably very well known around town, very

531
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.000
well respected. Tom Byrd went on trial in July of

532
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:25.880
nineteen eighty four for criminal solicitation to commit first degree

533
00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.839
murder for his role in the initial plotting to kill

534
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:32.119
Martin Anderson. So the charge is kind of important here

535
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:35.839
because he wasn't actually charged with physically killing Martin. He

536
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:39.319
was charged with solicitation, which was more about the planning

537
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.119
of it, which is what Daryl Carter had the story

538
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:45.519
that he had told Emporia residents lined up outside the

539
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.559
courthouse to secure a spot in the gallery, some of

540
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:52.839
them carrying their own stadium cushions. Women brought homemade cookies

541
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:54.200
and cakes for the defendant.

542
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.720
So the women in town thought he was innocent.

543
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.799
Well, I'm not saying everyone in town thought he was innocent,

544
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:04.680
but apparently several of them must have refused to believe

545
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:07.960
that a man of the cloth could commit this horrible act.

546
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:11.319
At its core, the trial turned on a single question.

547
00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:15.119
Was Tom Bird having an affair with Lorna Anderson. If

548
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:17.799
he was, there was a motive. If he wasn't, the

549
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:21.759
case against him grew considerably harder to make the prosecution

550
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:26.680
built its answer carefully. Phone records showed multiple conversations between

551
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:31.440
Tom and Lorna every day. Witnesses described the electricity between them,

552
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:36.480
the shoulders touching, the charged looks. Laurie Anderson, Laura's youngest daughter,

553
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:39.440
testified that she had seen her mother kiss Tom on

554
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.480
the lips. And then there were the two notes found

555
00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:46.039
in Laura's lingerie drawer, signed Tom, full of talk of

556
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:49.759
love and forever and a shared future. Tom took the

557
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:53.240
stand and denied any romance. The letters, he said were

558
00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:57.200
expressions of Christian love, nothing more. His attorney argued that

559
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:01.720
the relationship existed primarily in Laurna's imagination, that she had

560
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:05.799
developed feelings that Tom didn't share and hadn't encouraged. So

561
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.319
Tom's basically saying, I was just counseling her. She was

562
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:11.880
in a difficult marriage, and I was just you know,

563
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.559
being supportive and all this.

564
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:16.160
I mean, it's the only defense that he really had, right.

565
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:19.559
The jury didn't buy it. Tom Bird was found guilty

566
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:23.680
of criminal solicitation to murder Martin Anderson. Four weeks later.

567
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:25.799
He was sentenced to two and a half to seven

568
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:26.720
years in prison.

569
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.160
That does not seem like a long enough prison term.

570
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.119
No, it really doesn't. But that's why I also mentioned earlier.

571
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:35.160
This is not about the actual killing, it's about the

572
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.599
plotting to kill, which I guess makes it the sentence

573
00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:38.799
a little bit lighter.

574
00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:42.440
But still other cases though, where you know, solicitation of

575
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:43.720
murder is life in prison.

576
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:46.480
Yeah, I mean you would think you're soliciting to kill someone,

577
00:28:46.759 --> 00:28:50.359
then you know it's basically the same as as killing them.

578
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:55.039
With Tom convicted of soliciting Marty Anderson's murder, investigators turned

579
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:58.759
their attention back to the rocky Ford Bridge. Sandy Bird's

580
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:02.640
body was exhumed in the nineteen eighty four. A second

581
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:07.400
autopsy told a fuller story than the first. The original examination,

582
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:10.640
conducted in the days after her death, had concluded she

583
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:15.039
died of chest and abdominal injuries consistent on its face

584
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:19.319
with a car accident. The second autopsy went further. Marx

585
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:23.559
on Sandy's wrists indicated someone had grabbed her. Marx on

586
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.680
her ankles suggested she had been perhaps dragged. She had

587
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.559
been struck on the head with a blunt object. The

588
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:34.799
blow that likely killed her, examiners concluded, came to her back,

589
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:39.119
probably the result of being thrown from the bridge. This time,

590
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:43.039
the forensic pathologists concluded that Sandy did not die in

591
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:46.720
a car accident, but rather was the victim of a homicide.

592
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:49.880
Just goes to show you how much your bias going

593
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:52.359
into an autopsy must play a part in it, because

594
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:55.160
I think the corner in the original autopsy assumed it

595
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.119
was a car accident, and so that was what they found,

596
00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:01.359
but then re he examining it was like, no, this

597
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:02.599
doesn't add up.

598
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.960
That's an excellent point. A grand jury reviewed the evidence

599
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:09.039
from the second autopsy, and in February nineteen eighty five,

600
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:11.440
Tom Bird was charged with first degree murder in the

601
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:14.799
death of his wife. The following month, something changed in

602
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:18.920
Tom and Lorna's relationship. Bohen Records told the story quietly

603
00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:22.720
but clearly. Tom's collect calls from the prison to Laura's

604
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.880
home simply stopped whatever had existed between them. It was

605
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:31.000
over that coincided with Lorna deciding to tell her story

606
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:34.599
to the police. She told investigators that Tom had confessed

607
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.519
the details of Sandy's death to her at a rest

608
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:41.039
stop on the Kansas Turnpike, shortly after he'd returned to

609
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:45.279
Emporia from burying his wife at Arkansas. They'd driven there

610
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.240
together to talk. Tom told her that he had driven

611
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:51.079
Sandy out to the Rocky Ford Bridge that night. The

612
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.599
two of them had walked out to the bridge together.

613
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:56.319
Tom had brought a tool from the car, and he

614
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.079
struck Sandy with it when he tried to push her

615
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:02.599
over the railing. She held on. He kicked her until

616
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:05.319
she fell. Then he went down and dragged her body

617
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:08.000
to the water's edge, put the car and gear and

618
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:11.559
ran it off the embankment, jumping clear before it went over.

619
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:15.759
Underneath his clothes, he had been wearing jogging shorts. He

620
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.920
threw his shoes into the woods and ran home barefoot

621
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:23.279
eight miles, dumping his outer clothing and trash cans along

622
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.720
the way. A week later, Lorna said his feet were

623
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:27.640
still bruised.

624
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.160
It's pretty wild in this story. You know. One of

625
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:33.119
the big questions that I think people had was if

626
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.079
he did it, how did he get back? You know,

627
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.759
did he He didn't drive a separate car, and he

628
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:40.960
was a cross country runner, but running that far without

629
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:43.400
his shoes on eight miles, that seems crazy.

630
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:45.240
I think people will do a lot to get away

631
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:45.759
with murder.

632
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:46.400
Yeah.

633
00:31:46.519 --> 00:31:49.240
As for Marty's murder. Lorna said Tom had been the

634
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.200
one to pull the trigger. He used Marty's own gun,

635
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:55.200
a weapon she had quietly removed from a cedar chest

636
00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:57.920
in her basement once before and passed it to Tom.

637
00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:00.960
Tom had justified it, she said, is the lesser of

638
00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:04.759
two evils. Killing Marty was less wrong than allowing Marty

639
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:08.799
to slowly destroy Lorna and their daughters. Investigators drained a

640
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.960
pond and found the gun exactly where Lorna said it

641
00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:15.240
would be. She also made the laughable claim that she

642
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.079
hadn't known Tom killed Marty until he told her himself

643
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.720
a year later, an assertion that no one was buying.

644
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.119
Yeah, Tom just happened to be waiting at this place

645
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:27.000
that she happened to pull off and stop.

646
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:31.240
Yeah, Oh my gosh. Almost exactly a year after his

647
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:35.039
conviction for soliciting Marty Anderson's murder, Tom Bird was back

648
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:37.920
in a courtroom. This time the charge was the murder

649
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:41.279
of his wife. The county attorney laid out the prosecution's

650
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.920
theory plainly. Sandy had been beaten on a bridge, thrown

651
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.359
over the reeling, her body dragged to the water below.

652
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:50.640
The car had been pushed down the embankment after her.

653
00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.880
Somewhere between the bridge and home, Tom had disposed of

654
00:32:53.880 --> 00:32:56.720
a bloody jogging suit and arrived back of the bird

655
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.960
house in a three piece suit to drive his babysitting

656
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.519
or home. Where was the three piece suit?

657
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:06.319
I believe he stopped at the church first and kept there.

658
00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:09.880
That makes sense. And do you know where he disposed

659
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:11.640
of the bloody jogging suit because.

660
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:14.119
It sounds like it was eight miles between the bridge

661
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.720
and his home, so it could have been anywhere along

662
00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:18.319
that path, I suppose, but.

663
00:33:18.279 --> 00:33:21.200
It sounds like it was rural, So I'm just like

664
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.200
he couldn't leave it in like a gas station. He

665
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.039
wouldn't have been jogging by a gas station or something

666
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:25.240
like that.

667
00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:27.680
Probably, Yeah, maybe just people's you know, had their trash

668
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:29.000
out something like that. Perhaps.

669
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.640
A fellow inmate from the Lancing State Penitentiary named Charles

670
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:37.039
Henderson testified that Tom had told him in prison that

671
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.240
he and Lorna had conspired to have Sandy killed and

672
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.400
had talked about the insurance money they expected to collect.

673
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:48.240
Another prisoner serving time for murder offered similar testimony. If

674
00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:51.440
I murdered someone, which I haven't, I'm pretty sure I

675
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.240
could keep that secret to the grave. I don't think

676
00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:54.440
I would be telling anyone.

677
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:56.240
I know, especially yeah in prison.

678
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:00.000
The defense pointed to what wasn't there? No, why wouldn't

679
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:03.440
placed Tom at the bridge? No forensic evidence connected him

680
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:06.519
to the scene. The only footprint found near the water

681
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.119
was believed to be a woman's, and no one had

682
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.280
thought to make a cast of it. There was no

683
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.559
murder weapon, and there was no bloody jogging suit. And

684
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:17.880
there was no satisfying explanation of how Tom had gotten

685
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:20.519
back into town after leaving Sandy and her car in

686
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:24.119
the river, only the implication that a former college distance

687
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:27.679
runner might have simply run the eight miles back. The

688
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:31.960
medical examiners had differing opinions. The prosecution's experts said that

689
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:36.000
Sandy's injuries were consistent with the beating. The defenses experts

690
00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:38.840
said that they were consistent with a car accident. They

691
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:43.559
disagreed on cause of death, accident reconstruction experts disagreed on

692
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.039
the car's speed. Tom did not take the stand. The

693
00:34:47.079 --> 00:34:50.320
prosecution made one point that seemed to land with the jury.

694
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:53.599
On the night Sandy disappeared, when she failed to return,

695
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:56.760
and Tom grew concerned his first call was not to

696
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:00.639
their home, not to the university, but he called the police.

697
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:04.559
The jury deliberated for less than six hours. When they

698
00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:08.480
began their four person a former minister called for our

699
00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:10.559
first vote on the question of whether it was an

700
00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:14.559
accident or murder. The vote was unanimous for murder. Five

701
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:18.280
hours later it was unanimous that Tom had committed it.

702
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:21.079
Two jurors later said that what guided them more than

703
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:24.760
anything was the inconsistency of Tom's various accounts on his

704
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.679
last night with his wife. In one statement, Tom had

705
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:29.719
said that he and Sandy went to a private club

706
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.599
for drinks after having a drink in the church office.

707
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:35.920
In another, he said Sandy left directly after having a

708
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.599
drink at the church, And one story he said that

709
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:40.880
she went to the university to pick up some things,

710
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:43.079
but in another he said that she was in the

711
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:46.079
habit of taking drives at night to relieve tension.

712
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:49.800
So they are small inconsistencies, but they're you know, they're

713
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:52.159
the kind of things that you would not get wrong.

714
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:53.800
Did we go to a club or did we not

715
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:54.519
go to a club?

716
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:57.199
Well, and if they had gone to the club, someone

717
00:35:57.239 --> 00:35:59.800
would have seen them right exactly. For the murder of

718
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:03.280
a wife. The judge sentenced tom Bird to life in prison.

719
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.639
Back in Emporia, opinions remained divided. Many people had trouble

720
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.480
getting past the holes and the evidence, but twelve of

721
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:13.039
their peers had looked at the same holes and reached

722
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:17.039
their verdict anyway. In under six hours. On the eve

723
00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:20.840
of tom Bird's second trial, Lorna Anderson got married. Her

724
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.840
new husband was Randy Eldridge, a born again Christian from Hutchinson.

725
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:29.079
The wedding surprise nearly everyone who knew their situation. Lorna

726
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:31.440
had spent the better part of two years professing her

727
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:35.559
innocence through a succession of charges, dismissals, indictments, and delays,

728
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.480
and shortly before she was finally said to go to trial,

729
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:42.800
she decided to change course. On August twenty sixth, nineteen

730
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:46.159
eighty five, Lorna pleaded guilty to two counts of criminal

731
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:49.800
solicitation to commit the first degree murders of both her husband,

732
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:53.920
Marty Anderson and tom Bird's wife, Sandy Bird. She had

733
00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:57.159
admitted that she had plotted with tom Bird to kill

734
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.519
her husband. She admitted to the meeting with Dare Carter

735
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.000
and Tom Bird at the church, where they shared ideas

736
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:06.159
of how they would kill Marty. However, her version of

737
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:08.760
the plans didn't quite line up with what Darryl Carter

738
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:13.280
had told investigators, Where Carter described plans involving a drugged

739
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:16.760
man driven off an embankment into a river. Laurna's version

740
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:19.599
had them planning to drug Marty and lay him across

741
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.760
railroad tracks, or to have someone drop a brick onto

742
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.400
his car as he drove under a highway overpass.

743
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:28.280
I'm guessing that it is chilly. I'm just guessing that

744
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:30.920
Lorna had trouble keeping all the plots safe because this

745
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.159
is something she had been thinking about at least for

746
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:36.000
two years before Marty was killed. So she probably had

747
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:37.400
a lot of different plans.

748
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.840
I have never once plotted your murder same. As part

749
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.000
of her agreement, Lorna also told investigators what she knew

750
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.039
about the night Sandybird died at the rocky Ford Bridge,

751
00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.880
though why then Tom had already been convicted of that

752
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:53.800
murder and was serving a life sentence. The investigators, who

753
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:56.679
had spent two years building the case against her, were

754
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:00.719
skeptical about her motives for coming forward. She positioned it

755
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.679
as purging her soul and getting rit right with God.

756
00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:06.320
But more likely it was the chance at getting a

757
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:10.000
more favorable sentence, and it worked for her. Despite the

758
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:13.280
seriousness of her crimes, Laurena was sentenced to five and

759
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:18.480
a half to eighteen years in prison. That's quite a disspan.

760
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:21.320
It is, and it just seems really short for basically

761
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.039
plotting to commit two murders.

762
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:25.360
So do you know anything about this marriage? Like it

763
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.079
seems like it came out of nowhere.

764
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:29.159
Well, she was out on bail, so I'm assuming it

765
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:31.679
was someone she met like out on bail, But I

766
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:33.480
don't know much more about it than.

767
00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:35.840
That we'll be back after a break.

768
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:46.280
The case had all the ingredients that true crime storytellers

769
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:48.559
look for, which is why I did this case. And

770
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:51.800
it wasn't long before Hollywood came calling. There was a

771
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:54.559
bidding war for the movie rights, with notable names like

772
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:58.400
Henry Winkler and Dick Clark among those vying for the story.

773
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:02.639
In nineteen eighty seven, and CBS aired Murder Ordained, a

774
00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:06.599
dramatization of the Bird and Anderson cases. Joe Beth Williams

775
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:10.920
played Lorna, Terry Kinney played Tom. The supporting cast included

776
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:14.880
Kathy Bates, John Goodman, and Keith Carradine as highway patrolman

777
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.679
John Ruhle, who was portrayed as the hero in the

778
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:21.199
story for not letting the case go. Almost the entire

779
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:25.320
film was shot on location in Emporia, a strange experience

780
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:28.280
for a town still processing what had happened within it.

781
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.480
The state's governor even turned up for a walk on role.

782
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.320
Some residents worried that director Mike Robe was taking too

783
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:39.280
many liberties with the material, but the Emporia Gazette's editorial

784
00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:42.679
page offered its verdict Robe had been faithful to what

785
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:45.199
mattered and had nothing to apologize for.

786
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:49.000
That is so interesting. The town must have just been

787
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:50.599
so wild.

788
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:53.840
I can only imagine. I really love the fact that

789
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.880
they did this because it gave me a much better

790
00:39:56.960 --> 00:39:59.800
view into the bridge where Sandy died. If that was

791
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:02.800
the movie started. Wow, and it was filmed actually.

792
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:04.199
There, and it was crazy.

793
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:07.840
Yeah, it really is kind of crazy that they did that. Meanwhile,

794
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:11.760
the legal machinery ground on the Kansas Supreme Court upheld

795
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:16.039
Tom's first conviction on appeal. His second conviction for Sandy's

796
00:40:16.119 --> 00:40:19.360
murder was still waiting appeal as nineteen eighty five came

797
00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.760
to a close. Tom's brother, Mark, who ran a restaurant

798
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:25.519
and bar back in Little Rock, told anyone who would

799
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:29.199
listen that his own investigation would eventually clear his brother's name.

800
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:33.559
He wasn't alone. Several people in Emporia remained firmly in

801
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:36.960
Tom's corner, insisting that what he had been convicted of

802
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.960
simply wasn't in his heart. In November of nineteen eighty eight,

803
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:43.960
Lorna pleaded guilty a second time, this time to the

804
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:47.840
murder itself, not merely the conspiracy that got her an

805
00:40:47.880 --> 00:40:52.440
additional sentence of fifteen years to life. Her husband, Randy Eldridge,

806
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:55.280
the born again Christian from Hutchinson, whom she had married

807
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.840
on the eve of Tom's trial, filed for divorce shortly after.

808
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.599
While Tom and Laurna worked through their appeals and sentences,

809
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:06.119
a parallel fight was taking place in civil court, one

810
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:09.000
that would take years to resolve and ultimately turn on

811
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:12.519
a question the criminal trials had never quite settled cleanly.

812
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:17.840
Had Marty Anderson's life insurance policy been fraudulently obtained? The

813
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:21.280
New England Mutual Life Insurance Company thought so. They had

814
00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:24.079
issued a policy on Marty's life worth two hundred and

815
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:27.320
seventy thousand dollars, and they wanted a court to declare

816
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:29.920
that they didn't have to pay it. Lorna, by then

817
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.039
remarried and going by Lorna Anderson Eldridge, filed a counterclaim

818
00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:38.280
seeking the proceeds, and when she later disclaimed any personal interest,

819
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:41.400
she pursued the claim on behalf of her and Marty's

820
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:45.239
four daughters. The insurance company's argument rested on the idea

821
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:47.760
that the policy had been taken out as part of

822
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:51.039
the plot against Marty's life, but the evidence painted a

823
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:55.360
more complicated picture. Marty's brother testified that Marty had always

824
00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:59.000
been conscientious about life insurance. He had attended seminars on

825
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:03.119
the subject and had carried policies since at least nineteen eighty.

826
00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:07.519
A coworker said Marty regularly encouraged colleagues to increase their

827
00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:12.360
own coverage, practically acting as an informal insurance salesman. The

828
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.119
second New England policy had come about in April of

829
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:19.039
nineteen eighty three, when Laurna visited their agent, Chris Kimball,

830
00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:22.199
and picked up an application, but it was Marty himself

831
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:25.440
who later met with Kimball after an Optimist club meeting,

832
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:29.599
filled out the application, tendered the initial check, and submitted

833
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:33.800
to the required medical examinations. The policy was issued on

834
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:38.079
May twenty sixth, nineteen eighty three. Marty subsequently called Kimball

835
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:41.440
to go over the details at his own request. In

836
00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:43.840
August of nineteen eighty seven, a jury found that the

837
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:48.000
policy had not been fraudulently procured. New England Mutual was

838
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:51.119
ordered to pay the full two hundred and seventy thousand dollars.

839
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.599
The company appealed, but in October of nineteen eighty nine,

840
00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:00.000
the ruling was affirmed. The money went to Marty Anderson's daughters.

841
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.639
In today's money, that would be about eight hundred thousand dollars.

842
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:05.400
Yeah, that's pretty significant. I'm glad it turned out the

843
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.400
way it did, because obviously Lorna shouldn't have gotten any

844
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:10.800
of that money, but having the kids at least have

845
00:43:10.920 --> 00:43:12.960
something was probably helpful.

846
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:16.239
In March nineteen ninety, Tom Bird stood trial for a

847
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:20.559
third time, this time for the murder of Martin Anderson Well.

848
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:23.639
He had already been convicted of criminal solicitation to commit

849
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:25.960
first degree murder for his role in the plot. This

850
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:29.000
time he was on trial for actually pulling the trigger.

851
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:33.400
Laura's confession and her subsequent court testimony pointed directly at

852
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:36.119
Tom as the masked gunman who had stepped out of

853
00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:39.639
that Flint Hills field and shot Marty three times in

854
00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:42.199
the top of the head. Tom denied it, as he

855
00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:46.280
denied everything. The jury acquitted him. It was the one

856
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:49.239
charge that didn't stick, the murder he had been most

857
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:53.000
directly accused of committing with his own hands. Laura's testimony

858
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:55.320
was really the only evidence there was, and it was

859
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:57.679
clear that the jury didn't trust her word even a

860
00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:58.079
little bit.

861
00:43:58.199 --> 00:43:59.960
Yeah, it seems like there was no real direct out

862
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:03.119
evidence that he was actually the one pulling the trigger,

863
00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:07.679
although it seems like probably was the case. But yeah, yeah,

864
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:09.360
and there have been so many plots that she had

865
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.559
made with other hit men that they, you know, the

866
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:12.920
jury just couldn't be sure.

867
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:16.000
Yeah, I can understand that Lorna served her sentence at

868
00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.719
the Kansas State Correctional Institution in Lansing on a bluff

869
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:22.480
that looked out over the Kansas State Penitentiary just a

870
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:26.360
mile away, where Tom was serving his time. Tom did

871
00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:28.960
not stop being a minister because he was in prison.

872
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:32.800
He gave sermons. He co founded a program called Convicts

873
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:36.360
for Christ. He organized a tennis marathon to raise money

874
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:39.440
for Ronald McDonald's house. For some reason, I just don't

875
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.920
picture people in prison playing tennis. He and a school

876
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:45.400
teacher named Terry, whom he had met at a church

877
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:50.639
function not long after Sandy's death, married while he was incarcerated. Together,

878
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:53.639
they started a marriage in Richmond seminar for inmates and

879
00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:56.800
their spouses in nineteen eighty eight. By all accounts, he

880
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:01.360
was a model prisoner. That's so interesting. I knew that

881
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:05.239
he was not going to stop preaching. After a murder

882
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:08.880
ordained aired in nineteen eighty seven, Tom broke his silence

883
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.360
and talked to the press for his first in depth

884
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.760
interview on the case. The film, he said, had destroyed

885
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.679
whatever chance he might have had at a fair retrial

886
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:21.320
if his appeal succeeded. He admitted for the first time

887
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.000
publicly that he and Lorna had been romantically involved, but

888
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:28.920
insisted the relationship had not begun until after both Sandy

889
00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:32.280
and Marty were dead. He said, I rose up as

890
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:34.880
a knight in shining armor and felt that she was

891
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:38.440
being mistreated and needed my help. I was alone, she

892
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:41.639
was alone, and we had all these kids. Little did

893
00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:44.400
I know she would turn out to be the dragon herself.

894
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:48.199
Okay, it's all Laurna's fault. Tom.

895
00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:51.679
His conviction, he maintained, had rested on nothing more than

896
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:55.239
his relationship with Lorna and the small town rumor mill.

897
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:58.719
In one interview, he acknowledged that his marriage to Sandy

898
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:01.000
had been understrained in the mind months before her death.

899
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:04.280
We had disagreements about how much time each of us

900
00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:07.239
was spending at our jobs, he said. We spent all

901
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.400
this time at work, and then we had three kids

902
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:12.840
under five. We didn't leave time for each other. He

903
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.320
said that at some point the evening of Sandy's death,

904
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:18.119
the two of them had words an argument about the

905
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:21.239
amount of time Sandy was spending at the university's computers.

906
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.760
It was a common source of friction between them. Sandy

907
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:27.119
liked working on the machines late at night, when the

908
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:31.239
building was empty and she could focus. Tom still disputed

909
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:35.440
the timeline investigators had built around that night. The babysitter

910
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:37.599
had said that he called it one in the morning,

911
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:40.320
but she was only fourteen years old, he pointed out,

912
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:43.239
and may have fallen asleep without knowing what time it was.

913
00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:46.119
He said he had called home first and only called

914
00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:49.239
the police in campus security after the babysitter told him

915
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.039
that Sandy hadn't been in touch. As for Sandy's death,

916
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:56.159
he acknowledged that the facts as they stood didn't support

917
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:59.320
an accident. Perhaps, he said, Lorna or one of her

918
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:03.039
former boyfriend friends had been responsible. He didn't have evidence,

919
00:47:03.079 --> 00:47:06.280
he said, quote I just have to think that if

920
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:09.599
all the evidence had been collected properly that day, I

921
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:13.480
wouldn't have been charged. When Tom Byrd became eligible for

922
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:16.840
parole in two thousand and one after fifteen years, he was,

923
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:20.920
by any institutional measure, a strong candidate. During the hearing,

924
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.239
board members thanked him for his contributions in prison. Then

925
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:27.599
they asked him a direct question. Did he think Sandy's

926
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.840
death had been an accident, a suicide, or a murder.

927
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:33.920
He chose his words carefully. He didn't think it was

928
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:36.599
a suicide, he said, but he believed there was just

929
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:39.760
as much evidence for suicide as there was that he

930
00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:42.440
had murdered her. It was not the answer of a

931
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:47.079
man taking responsibility. Public hearings trew people from both sides

932
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:52.440
Sandy's relatives came to speak against his release. His eldest daughter, Andrea,

933
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:55.000
now twenty five years old and working for a mortgage

934
00:47:55.000 --> 00:47:58.920
company in Orange, California, came to speak for him. She said,

935
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.440
I've stood by my dad the whole time. When I

936
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:04.280
was in junior high, I decided for myself that he

937
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.920
was innocent. It was a lot of circumstantial evidence and

938
00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:10.800
he should have had a change of venue. The press

939
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:15.079
convicted him there in Emporia. Rumors swept the prison after

940
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:17.960
the hearings that Tom would be released. He had let

941
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:21.360
himself hope, but the board voted against it three to one,

942
00:48:21.639 --> 00:48:25.400
citing the seriousness of the crime, the objections from Sandy's family,

943
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:28.960
and his refusal to accept responsibility. He would have to

944
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.679
wait at least four more years. So you said that

945
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:35.239
Sandy's family had supported him initially, but I guess as

946
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:37.280
time passed they changed their mind, I think so.

947
00:48:37.360 --> 00:48:39.519
I don't know specifically about her mom who was the

948
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:42.159
one that originally came forward, but yeah, it sounds like

949
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:44.440
they probably changed their mind as time went on.

950
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:48.039
Earl Board chairwoman Marilyn Scave, who had cast the loane

951
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:51.119
vote in Tom's favor, said that in two decades on

952
00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:53.400
the board, she had never seen a case divide its

953
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:57.639
members so completely. Tom Byrd was eventually released on parole

954
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.719
in June two thousand and four after nearly twenty years

955
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:04.440
in prison, settling in Wyandot County with his wife, Terry.

956
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.360
He was no longer ordained, but he kept preaching as

957
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:10.880
a lay minister. His specialty in the years that followed

958
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:11.960
was marriage counseling.

959
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:12.880
A little bit ironic.

960
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.599
His wife, Terry bird By then was working at a

961
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:19.880
Lutheran school in Kansas City, Kansas. She had a master's

962
00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:23.039
degree in education, with a specialty in teaching children with

963
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:27.199
learning disabilities. She had attended every trial. When people told

964
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:29.039
her that she must be crazy to have married a

965
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:32.719
convicted murderer, her answer was direct, I have both feet

966
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:36.639
on the ground. Lorda's pathout was longer and harder. She

967
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:39.400
had come before the parole board multiple times, and each

968
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:43.239
time she'd been turned down. The votes, unlike Tom's, weren't close.

969
00:49:43.800 --> 00:49:46.880
As one investigator had said years later, a lot of

970
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:50.400
what she says is true, some is not, and there's

971
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.639
a whole lot that she's not telling. The parole boards

972
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:56.880
still believe that to be the case. She was denied

973
00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.239
parole five times between nineteen eighty eight and early two

974
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:03.519
thousand and six. Her sixth time before the parole board

975
00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:07.400
in December two thousand and six was the charm. During

976
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:10.800
that hearing, her husband, Terry Moore, whom she'd married in

977
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.920
two thousand and four, her father, Lauren Slater, and three

978
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:16.760
of her four daughters spoke in support of her release.

979
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:20.360
Moore told the board that Laura had earned her associate's

980
00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:23.360
degree in prison, had been a leader in inmate drug

981
00:50:23.440 --> 00:50:26.960
treatment programs, and was active in the United Methodist Women's

982
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:30.400
group behind Bars. Her work released employer called her the

983
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:35.519
epitome of the perfect employee. Laura Anderson Moore was released

984
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:38.400
on parole in February of two thousand and seven. She

985
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:42.880
completed parole's supervision in February twenty fourteen and has since

986
00:50:43.000 --> 00:50:45.360
led a private life in Hutchinson, Kansas.

987
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:49.159
Interestingly, I have found her on Facebook. She is as

988
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:51.880
a public profile on Facebook, and she seems to be

989
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:56.639
reconnected with her family, regularly post pictures with her husband, kids,

990
00:50:56.679 --> 00:51:00.760
and grandkids. Not long after the trials ended, someone etched

991
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.159
in concrete at rocky Ford Bridge. Two names joined by

992
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:08.320
a plus sign Tom plus Lorna. It's still there. The

993
00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:12.119
bridge itself was eventually renamed. It's called Bird Bridge now

994
00:51:12.440 --> 00:51:15.599
not for Tom but for Sandy. In twenty twenty, it

995
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:18.519
was approved for listing on the State Register of Historic

996
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:22.719
Places and recommended for the National Register as well. Recognized

997
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:27.039
for its Pratt Trust steel design and construction. The historical

998
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:31.239
significance the nomination was careful to note, came from its architecture,

999
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:33.920
not from what happened there on a July night in

1000
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:34.920
nineteen eighty three.

1001
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:37.960
Who etched Tom plus Laurna in the bridge? To one

1002
00:51:38.000 --> 00:51:39.199
of them? Do it? No?

1003
00:51:39.199 --> 00:51:42.000
No, I think it was just some graffiti artists. But

1004
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:45.119
people in the area know the bridge because of Sandy's death.

1005
00:51:45.480 --> 00:51:48.800
On humid summer nights, teenagers still drive out past the

1006
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:52.039
edge of Emporia, down the narrow County road that dissolves

1007
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:55.360
into farmland and darkness. They park near the bridge and wait.

1008
00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:59.280
Some swear they've seen a figure walking the rails. Others

1009
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.599
say they hear splashing, as if a car had gone

1010
00:52:01.639 --> 00:52:05.159
into the Cottonwood River. Again, the stories shift depending on

1011
00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:09.159
who's telling them. An apparition in white headlights that appear

1012
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:12.360
and vanish footsteps on the planks when no one's there.

1013
00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:16.440
The bridge appears on lists of Kansas's most haunted places.

1014
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.559
Car Loads of teenagers dare each other to walk across

1015
00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:22.039
it in the dark, and more often than not end

1016
00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:24.880
up sprinting back to their cars. It's the kind of

1017
00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:28.039
place that earns its ghost stories. A wooden bridge over

1018
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:30.400
a shallow river at the bottom of a road that

1019
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:33.760
goes from nowhere to nowhere, and somewhere in the concrete

1020
00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:36.119
if you know where to look, you can find those

1021
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.480
two names. You can find online a lot of videos

1022
00:52:39.519 --> 00:52:42.280
of like, you know, ghost s hunters out there, like

1023
00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:44.400
we're here in the dark, we're waiting to see if

1024
00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:47.199
anything happens. It's it's kind of I mean, it seems

1025
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:48.800
like a very spooky place because it's out in the

1026
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:50.880
middle of nowhere and it's this kind of you know,

1027
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.159
bridge over this creepy river.

1028
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:53.960
Road trip.

1029
00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:58.000
Yeah. John Rule retired from the Kansas Highway Patrol in

1030
00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:01.039
two thousand and four after twenty nine years working traffic

1031
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:05.679
accidents across the state. After murder ordained aired. Some people

1032
00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:08.400
in Emporia were angry with him, so much so that

1033
00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:11.960
he requested a transfer to Western Kansas. He told a

1034
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:15.000
reporter that when he would stop drivers for speeding and

1035
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:17.239
they saw his name, they didn't want to talk about

1036
00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:20.400
the ticket anymore. So I just decided to start fresh,

1037
00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.119
he said. As long as I was in Emporia, I

1038
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:25.760
was going to keep stirring the pot up. Every time

1039
00:53:25.800 --> 00:53:28.400
the movie would air, Rule said he would get letters

1040
00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:31.400
from all over the world. Before we leave the story,

1041
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.320
I want to pause on the two people at the

1042
00:53:33.320 --> 00:53:37.199
center of it. Sandy Bird was a mathematician, a teacher,

1043
00:53:37.400 --> 00:53:40.079
a woman who had been told that her ambitions were

1044
00:53:40.119 --> 00:53:43.360
not befitting the wife of a minister, and who refused

1045
00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:46.719
to accept that. She taught teenagers the Bible on Sunday

1046
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:50.519
mornings and wrote computer programs at night. She lost fifteen

1047
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:53.119
pounds from the stress of a marriage that was collapsing

1048
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:56.400
around her. Told a neighbor it was just what stress does,

1049
00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:59.639
but she kept going. She was thirty three years old

1050
00:53:59.679 --> 00:54:03.119
with three children under ten. The last night of her life,

1051
00:54:03.159 --> 00:54:05.480
she and her husband went to the movies to celebrate

1052
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:09.519
a promotion that she had just earned. Martin Anderson was

1053
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:12.559
a man who had been badly broken once found someone

1054
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:15.199
who helped put his life back together, and spent the

1055
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:17.239
rest of his life trying to hold on to what

1056
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:20.760
they had built. He coached his daughter's sports teams. He

1057
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:24.599
badgered hospital administrators for better equipment because he cared about

1058
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:27.800
doing his job right. He wanted more than anything else

1059
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.519
to be a good father. He was thirty four years

1060
00:54:30.559 --> 00:54:33.719
old when he was shot execution style while kneeling in

1061
00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:36.920
a Kansas field, sixty feet from the highway where his

1062
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:41.519
family was waiting. Rest in peace, Sandy and Marty. I

1063
00:54:41.599 --> 00:54:44.079
wasn't able to find out much about the children in

1064
00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:46.559
this case. Seven children. There's a lot of kids that

1065
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:50.719
were basically left without father or a mother because you know,

1066
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:52.599
one of them was in prison, the other was dead.

1067
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:55.800
But it seems that a lot of the kids supported

1068
00:54:56.039 --> 00:54:59.039
their parent who had lived, because they did come to

1069
00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:01.440
parole hearing. Not all of them, but some of them

1070
00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:04.440
came to parole hearings to support their parent, which I

1071
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:06.679
don't know, is that seems a little surprising, I guess,

1072
00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:08.599
but I know we talk about this a lot when

1073
00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:12.280
you're a child, such a difficult situation when one parent

1074
00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:15.440
kills the other because you're left with only the only

1075
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:17.599
person you have left is right the killer.

1076
00:55:17.719 --> 00:55:21.239
It makes me wonder what is better for them, you know,

1077
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:24.840
to have one parent that even though the parent is

1078
00:55:24.880 --> 00:55:26.039
a murderer. I don't know.

1079
00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:29.320
It sounds like Tom's kids believe that he is innocent,

1080
00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:33.000
at least have told himself that. I don't think Laura's

1081
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:34.599
kids can believe that because she.

1082
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:39.079
We said three of the four testified at her parole hearing.

1083
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:40.000
I think that was right.

1084
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:43.320
Yeah, yeah, so seventy percent of them support her.

1085
00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:46.039
Then, right, but that especially means I think she's innocent.

1086
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:46.480
Right.

1087
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:48.480
We've talked about a lot along the way, but I

1088
00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:50.440
have a couple other things I wanted to bring up

1089
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:53.960
before we go. One is the kind of their sentences,

1090
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:57.079
whether justice was served or not. So ultimately Tom ended

1091
00:55:57.159 --> 00:56:00.440
up serving twenty years in prison, Laura ended up serving

1092
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:03.239
twenty one and a half. Do you think that was enough?

1093
00:56:03.320 --> 00:56:04.599
Do you think that was the right sentence.

1094
00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:06.679
I feel like if you take someone's life in such

1095
00:56:06.719 --> 00:56:10.000
a selfish manner that you deserve to be in prison

1096
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:10.800
for life.

1097
00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:13.280
Yeah. And it was certainly first degree murder, it was

1098
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:16.679
planned for Both murders were planned for a long time.

1099
00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:20.039
Just disgusting. Yeah, again, I mean we say this every

1100
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:22.519
week pretty much, but yeah, it just bothers me that

1101
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:25.559
people are so callous about taking someone else's life and

1102
00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:28.000
you expect your kids to be okay after you do

1103
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:30.639
something like that. No, Yeah, I mean I guess I'm

1104
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:32.880
saying that I believe they're both guilty, which I do.

1105
00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:35.880
So Yeah, and both of them got out of prison with,

1106
00:56:36.119 --> 00:56:39.559
you know, relatively young, like they still have a lot

1107
00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:41.840
of their lives left to live. And it really did

1108
00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:46.880
finding Lorna's Facebook profile, it really, I have to say,

1109
00:56:46.880 --> 00:56:48.599
it affected me, like, it really kind of bothered me.

1110
00:56:48.599 --> 00:56:50.719
It's like she's just out there living her life, posting

1111
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:52.559
these pictures and I'm just like, you.

1112
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:55.280
Killed you want You're expecting people, everyone in your life

1113
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:57.000
to forget and forgive what.

1114
00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:58.960
You've done, and it seems like they have.

1115
00:56:59.039 --> 00:56:59.960
I don't think that's forgivable.

1116
00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:02.599
No, I don't think so either. So the fact that

1117
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:06.400
Tom has never admitted his guilt, even like to the

1118
00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:09.400
parole board, to me, that should sort of be disqualifying

1119
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:11.840
if you go before a parole board. But you're saying,

1120
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:14.039
I really didn't do it, but I deserve to be

1121
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:14.440
out of here.

1122
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:18.079
Yeah. I think every parole board is different in every state.

1123
00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:21.039
And it's tricky. I mean, if you truly are innocent,

1124
00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:25.599
then you're putting an awkward position of being pressured to

1125
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:27.199
admit to something that didn't happen, right.

1126
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:30.519
I think people do admit sometimes their guilty, even if

1127
00:57:30.559 --> 00:57:32.840
they're innocent, because they just want to get out of prison.

1128
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:35.039
But in his case, I feel pretty comfortable that he

1129
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:38.400
was involved in both of these murders directly.

1130
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:41.639
Did you watch any of Murder Ordained.

1131
00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:44.199
I did watch the first part of it when they

1132
00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:47.760
found the car and Sandy's body in the river. I

1133
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:49.760
skimmed through a little bit of the rest of it.

1134
00:57:49.760 --> 00:57:51.519
It seemed like it was actually very well done, and

1135
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:54.880
it did seem fairly true to the facts. The one

1136
00:57:54.880 --> 00:57:57.320
thing I think they took liberties with is they wanted

1137
00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:00.079
to make John Rule, the highway patrolman, into like a

1138
00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:03.119
hero who was like tenaciously holding on and we're not

1139
00:58:03.159 --> 00:58:04.239
gonna let go of this case.

1140
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:06.440
I felt like you kind of portrayed him like that.

1141
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:09.079
I mean, he definitely believed that it wasn't an accident,

1142
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:11.800
but he failed to get people to re look at

1143
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:15.039
the only reason they decided it was murder was because

1144
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:17.800
Marty Anderson was also killed and they made the connection.

1145
00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:21.039
So I don't think he was really the He was

1146
00:58:21.079 --> 00:58:23.159
a good, good guy, believe you know. I'm not saying

1147
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:25.679
he's not, and he did try to fight for it.

1148
00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:27.920
But I think the I think the movie made it

1149
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:30.679
a little more dramatized than it really was.

1150
00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:32.920
Where can listeners find the movie?

1151
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.199
It is on YouTube, so if you just search for

1152
00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:38.559
Murder Ordained and we'll put a link in our show notes. Okay, well,

1153
00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:41.599
that is the story of Sandy and Tom Bird and

1154
00:58:41.719 --> 00:58:51.079
Lorna and Marty Anderson. Let us know what you think. Well,

1155
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:53.760
it is early Saturday afternoon. We are done recording a

1156
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:55.400
two part episode. What do you want to do with

1157
00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:56.320
the rest of our weekend?

1158
00:58:57.079 --> 00:59:01.559
I have been not feeling amazing because of allergy season,

1159
00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:06.159
so I pushed something on Instagram today that was like

1160
00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:08.400
all I want to do this week and is eat

1161
00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:09.800
chips or something like that.

1162
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:11.840
I literally just saw that and it gave me a

1163
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:12.320
good laugh.

1164
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:15.719
We have chips, so but I really honestly don't feel

1165
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:18.039
like doing that. A couple of books that I'm so

1166
00:59:18.199 --> 00:59:20.559
I know, I'm so boring. A couple of books that

1167
00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:23.920
I'm reading that I'm excited to finish up. One of

1168
00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:27.280
them is Yesteryear, which is a lot of people are

1169
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:29.599
talking about right now, and the other one I can't

1170
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:31.519
talk about because I'm embarrassed that i'm reading it.

1171
00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:33.159
Oh now you have to talk about it.

1172
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:38.440
Come on, so everyone knows. I think that I am

1173
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:41.639
like a big fan of pop culture. And there is

1174
00:59:41.679 --> 00:59:45.119
a show on Amazon Prime right now. It's another hockey show,

1175
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:49.599
but it's a straight hockey romance this time, and it's

1176
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:53.679
called Off Campus, and there are based on a series

1177
00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:56.840
of books. So I'm reading part one or book one

1178
00:59:56.920 --> 00:59:58.239
of the Off Campus series.

1179
00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:00.559
You usually seem embarrassed by this. I think you should

1180
01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:01.199
be embarrassed.

1181
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:05.599
Oh well, I won't tell you why. Maybe there's it's

1182
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:10.760
a it's a little more like soft core porn that

1183
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:14.199
I thought it would be. Okay, So yeah, I.

1184
01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:17.840
Was like, still nothing to be embarrassed about.

1185
01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:18.800
Okay.

1186
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:22.480
Well yeah, well I'm still reading it by Stephen King.

1187
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:24.519
It's like my project for the year.

1188
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:26.199
I don't know. And I'm mad at you because you

1189
01:00:26.320 --> 01:00:29.599
haven't finished The Road to Tender Hearts, which I finished

1190
01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:32.480
like weeks ago at this point, so now I'm going

1191
01:00:32.559 --> 01:00:34.000
to have forgotten everything about it.

1192
01:00:34.039 --> 01:00:36.039
I'm just such a slow I've been such a slow

1193
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:38.360
reader lately, I just don't have an attention here pretty

1194
01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:41.000
busy guy. I do. I am enjoying it, but it's

1195
01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:44.119
so long. It's like twelve hundred pages long or something

1196
01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:45.239
crazy like that.

1197
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:47.559
And according to my Goodreads account, I have read it,

1198
01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:50.960
but I don't really remember it unless I've lied in

1199
01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:52.960
my country's about which I don't think I've done.

1200
01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:55.880
Feeling like you would remember reading a twelve hundred page book,

1201
01:00:55.920 --> 01:00:56.599
but maybe not.

1202
01:00:57.320 --> 01:00:59.039
Well, what do you want to do this weekend?

1203
01:00:59.199 --> 01:01:01.440
Well, it's funny because I was thinking about the movie

1204
01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:03.719
Old School. Do you remember the scene.

1205
01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:06.840
Where Will is like forty three times? Yeah?

1206
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:07.679
I don't think we.

1207
01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:10.400
Yes, we have. We have talked about it many times,

1208
01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:15.719
really hit up home Depot, Home Depot, and and every

1209
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:18.559
time I think about it every weekend literally because I mean,

1210
01:01:18.599 --> 01:01:20.559
we're old and we're boring and we're married. So yes,

1211
01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:21.079
that is.

1212
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:23.920
Maybe a bad bath and beyond. I don't know if

1213
01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:24.639
we'll have time.

1214
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:27.000
I try and find one. You don't even see you

1215
01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:28.239
are so out of touch.

1216
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:30.119
You don't even know why in the movie.

1217
01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:32.760
But where is the nearest bad bath and beyond? I

1218
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:34.079
have no they all closed.

1219
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.000
Oh well, we haven't.

1220
01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:38.840
Gotten the twenty percent of coopon in the mail in

1221
01:01:38.960 --> 01:01:39.960
like five years.

1222
01:01:40.000 --> 01:01:42.039
Probably I do owe you a trip to Home Goods.

1223
01:01:42.079 --> 01:01:44.440
Still I did. I did make that promise. We talk.

1224
01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:46.920
We also have talked about this because yeah, we still

1225
01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:50.760
haven't gone. What we need to do is it's almost

1226
01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:54.880
June and we still haven't planted like our annual flowers.

1227
01:01:55.639 --> 01:01:57.840
Put like these what do you what do you call

1228
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:00.599
those things that are on the railing, like the window boxes. Yeah,

1229
01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:02.559
the planters that we have on our deck. We have

1230
01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:03.280
to plant those.

1231
01:02:03.559 --> 01:02:05.480
Yeah, that's why we should probably do that.

1232
01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:07.199
I don't feel like doing it, but yeah, we need

1233
01:02:07.239 --> 01:02:09.159
to do it. But in my defense, the reason we

1234
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:11.880
haven't done it is there's no more frost advisories. But

1235
01:02:11.960 --> 01:02:15.440
the lows have been like in the low forties or

1236
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:19.519
the high thirties still, so today it's my favorite temperature.

1237
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:21.400
It's like sixty eight degrees right now.

1238
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:22.480
Yeah, it's really nice.

1239
01:02:22.519 --> 01:02:23.519
Anyway, let's go do that.

1240
01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:26.039
Let's go buy some dirt and some plants.

1241
01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:30.199
Can you just do it and I'll just direct you.

1242
01:02:30.239 --> 01:02:31.800
No, it's not going to work that way, but I'm

1243
01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:32.760
happy to help.

1244
01:02:33.360 --> 01:02:36.039
So maybe we should go to a couple more open houses.

1245
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:40.039
This weekend we have been looking at new houses. Not

1246
01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:45.800
new houses, but we've been thinking about maybe moving and downsizing,

1247
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:48.159
which I don't think either of us are really ready

1248
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:50.360
to do or want to do, but we are kind

1249
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:52.800
of thinking about that. And a couple of weekends ago,

1250
01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:55.000
we seriously thought about buying the.

1251
01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:57.079
House in ann Arbor, almost put an offer on it.

1252
01:02:57.119 --> 01:02:58.639
Oh, actually it's gone. Did you erase that?

1253
01:02:58.719 --> 01:02:59.760
I erased the white board.

1254
01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:02.079
White for it behind me? And we actually had we

1255
01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:04.719
were so meeting. We had a pros and cons list,

1256
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:07.760
and the cons I believe outweighed the pros.

1257
01:03:08.079 --> 01:03:09.920
There were a lot of things we found that the

1258
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:12.320
house was amazing. It was really a cool house in

1259
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:14.719
a great neighborhood, but there were enough things that I

1260
01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:17.280
think we were like, yeah, this would get annoying after

1261
01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:20.199
a while, or this would be frustrating. But and we

1262
01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:22.800
decided to be a little more methodical rather than just

1263
01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:25.400
impulsively putting an offer on a house.

1264
01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:26.880
But we almost did it.

1265
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.760
We almost did. We've done it before. We yeah, but

1266
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:32.360
we could go look at a couple of week We have.

1267
01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:34.840
Moved more than most people move, Like it's been like

1268
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:36.920
every probably average of every six years.

1269
01:03:36.719 --> 01:03:38.639
How many houses have we had since we've met.

1270
01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:42.320
This is our fifth house together, and some of them

1271
01:03:42.360 --> 01:03:46.000
we've lived in for shorter times. But anyway, Yeah, a

1272
01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:50.199
little spontaneous, impulsive, that's a good thing, or.

1273
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:53.079
Not when Probably not when making a major purchase. But

1274
01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:54.400
I feel like it's worked out for us.

1275
01:03:54.400 --> 01:03:57.280
We'red out. We've always been pretty profitable.

1276
01:03:57.480 --> 01:03:59.440
Yeah, and I think we've every time we've moved to

1277
01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:01.199
a new house, we've always been like, yeah, this is

1278
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:02.719
this is the right place for us.

1279
01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:06.519
Except for the one house it was not. Yeah which house,

1280
01:04:06.679 --> 01:04:09.639
the house that we lived in before this house. Oh, yeah,

1281
01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:11.599
it just needed more work than we.

1282
01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:13.960
I still loved it, though, but yes, you're right it was.

1283
01:04:14.119 --> 01:04:16.920
It had a lot of problems that were hard to

1284
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:17.320
deal with.

1285
01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:20.119
But you are not all men, but you're kind of

1286
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:23.760
blind to some of the esthetic things that really bothered me.

1287
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:24.320
Yeah.

1288
01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:27.199
Yeah, some of the design decisions were really bad.

1289
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:27.480
Right.

1290
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:30.559
Anyway, anyway, before we go, I think you had one

1291
01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:31.800
more thing you wanted to talk about.

1292
01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:34.599
Oh, I was just listening to Paul McCartney came out

1293
01:04:34.639 --> 01:04:37.519
with a brand new album today or yesterday, I think

1294
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:39.719
it came out, and I was just listening to it,

1295
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:43.079
and it's really good. Like Paul McCartney, he's eighty three.

1296
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:44.840
Years old, it looks amazing.

1297
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:47.480
He's everywhere, like, yeah, he's only doing the talk show

1298
01:04:47.559 --> 01:04:48.440
circuits that he is.

1299
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:51.920
He turned off the lights on Stephen Colbert's Yeah.

1300
01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:55.159
Yeah, and yeah, I just listened to the full album

1301
01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:57.199
this morning, and I just I give it a big

1302
01:04:57.199 --> 01:05:01.360
thumbs up. It's I've always liked huge Beatles fan. Obviously

1303
01:05:01.760 --> 01:05:04.079
Paul McCartney's solo career I haven't been as big of

1304
01:05:04.119 --> 01:05:07.480
a fan of, but this feels like a I don't think,

1305
01:05:07.960 --> 01:05:09.360
I hope it's not going to be his last album,

1306
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:11.559
but it feels sort of like a like a farewell.

1307
01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:14.320
He yeah, because he's looking back at the past and it.

1308
01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:17.360
Is crazy to think he's eighty three years old and

1309
01:05:17.559 --> 01:05:19.119
he is releasing new music.

1310
01:05:19.159 --> 01:05:21.039
That's amazing, you know, and it's still good.

1311
01:05:21.239 --> 01:05:25.000
Being eighty today is not as scary as it was

1312
01:05:25.920 --> 01:05:27.119
what our parents were our.

1313
01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:29.880
Age, right, Yeah, no, I agree. His voice isn't quite

1314
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:32.599
as good as it used to be, but still still good.

1315
01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:34.719
And he has a duet with Ringo, which is really

1316
01:05:35.519 --> 01:05:38.519
the two surviving Beatles. So yeah, check it out, give

1317
01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:41.599
it a listen. What's it called Boys of Dungeon Lane.

1318
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:43.400
I think it's called which I think Dungeon Lane is

1319
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:46.960
like a road that was by his and George Harrison's

1320
01:05:47.119 --> 01:05:47.880
house and they.

1321
01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:49.719
Used to all grew up together.

1322
01:05:49.719 --> 01:05:51.840
I can't remember all grew up in Liverpool. I think

1323
01:05:51.880 --> 01:05:54.559
they were in various like George was a little younger

1324
01:05:54.639 --> 01:05:57.079
and they didn't know Ringo until later. But yeah, they

1325
01:05:57.119 --> 01:05:59.599
all grew up in the same town. Well, once again,

1326
01:05:59.679 --> 01:06:02.880
you've stay a perfectly good hour listening to Love Mary Kill.

1327
01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:05.320
If you enjoy the podcast and you want us to

1328
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:07.719
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1329
01:06:08.000 --> 01:06:10.039
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1330
01:06:10.519 --> 01:06:13.679
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1331
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:16.679
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1332
01:06:16.719 --> 01:06:18.079
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1333
01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:21.360
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1334
01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:25.920
our website, Lovemarykill dot com. You can leave us a

1335
01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:28.760
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1336
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:32.079
to episodes there right you can until next time. Don't

1337
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:34.079
Kill your wife and Don't Kill your husband.

1338
01:07:01.159 --> 01:07:08.719
To pick the