Susan Bailey - Mother's Day bonus episode

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Emma. And if there's one thing we've learned and over twenty years of parenting. Some days you're gonna feel like killing your mom. And some days you might feel like killing your kid. Welcome to Love, Mary kill Well, Hi Emma, Hi Mom. I'm so glad that you're here. I'm happy to be here. Because you were like, I'm not doing that again. Well, I know it wasn't your first choice, and you're wife. The guest you wanted is unavailable, but that's not true.

0:43 I'm just as happy to have you. But brother has never done it before, so I did kind of want brother. But brother is editing the podcast, so he's also involved. So how have you been in this last year. You've had a lot of changes, A lot of life changes have happened. Last year. When we left off, you were just graduating from college. Yeah, I graduated and I started my new job, which I've been at for a year. Now. I'm teaching at a preschool. You've learned a lot. You could say that some days it doesn't feel like it, but anyway, I just got back from work and it's been a long day, but I'm still kind of in preschool teacher mode, So I'm trying to keep that enthusiasm going for you. You've taught me a lot in your year of preschool, and sometimes it makes me laugh. You use your preschool teacherness on me.

1:28 I do, yes, Like if I get angry, you'll say, oh, you're having a big emotion. I don't necessarily say that, but I think the thing I've learned the most about is problem solving. So yes, that can be a really useful skill to use on your friends and family. Yeah, or sometimes you might take a beat instead of reacting like a knee jerk reaction. Yeah, you could say that as I always tell the kids, take a big breath. Yeah, and then respond, well, we have a lot of listeners with young children. What would be your best advice to parents of young children. My best piece of advice, I feel like, would be just let them play and let them be kids, because when they're playing, they're learning so much about their environment and themselves. So I'm not gonna get on a soapbox here, but you have a lot of parents that are worried about learning like letters and words, and your advice is always to not worry about that until later. Yeah, there's no rush. I mean, read them lots of books. Make them love reading, because that's maybe the most important skill they're going to carry on and teach them to love school because they're going to be in school for a long time. So have fun with it while you can.

2:37 That is very good advice. You're very wise. Yeah, I mean have fun at every stage in life, but especially preschool. Absolutely. Why did make you a snack? I made a special Emma snack. Do you want to guess what it might be? Is it something lemony? It might be lemone. I made you some lemon white chocolate cookies. Remember the Levon Bakery cookies. Yes, this is a knockoff from Levan recipe. Or you look? You look very excited. I really am. You know lemon desserts are my favorite. Well, we'll try this really quickly and we'll be right back. So what did you think of the cookie? It was delicious. I feel like if there was one cookie in the world made for me, this would be it.

3:21 Aw I saw the recipe a few weeks ago. I'd even dying to make them for you because I was hoping that you would like them. Well, it was amazing, So thank you so much. What would you rate it? Nine point five out of ten? Wow? Okay, all right, what would I have to do to get a ten? Honestly, if it was fresh out of the oven, it might be a ten. Oh okay, all right, Well we will post the recipe just as a side note. I think I double the amount of lemon zest. And I might have doubled the amount of lemon because the recipe suggested lemon extract and we didn't have any, But you got the lemon essence out of the cookie. Yeah, I think it was just enough. So what do you have planned for me for Mother's Day?

4:02 Well, we asked you, and to be honest, I'm not really sure. I mean, I know we're going to clean the house. You're a really good cleaner. Maybe we'll go for a walk, thank you, I do. Aren't you going to admit what you're actually doing on Mother's Day? Are you too embarrassed? Oh? Goodness, well, I'm not embarrassed about it, but it is kind of weird that I'm going to this wedding and I'm just a plus one and when I was invited, I didn't realize that it was on Mother's Day. Yeah, it's a little weird to get married on Mother's Day. Right, and on a Sunday too. I mean, I'm not trying to trash these people that were nice enough to have me at their wedding, but yeah. Till everyone like the other weird thing about the wedding, Well.

4:43 There is a list of suggested colors to wear, and it's all things like coral or salmon, dusty rose. And you're also a red pine and bravery. We're both pale redheads, and those aren't like the best colors for us, right. None of them will look good. And I mean except for ivory maybe, but I'm not gonna wear ivory to someone's wedding, Like, that's so close to white. What are you going to wear? And it's formal too, right, Yes, it's it's formal. I will be wearing a blue dress, which I feel like is the opposite end of the spectrum of all of those colors, but it's one of the few colors I feel confident in. So sorry, well, I have no doubt that you will look beautiful and you'll have a wonderful time. Well, thank you, but you know I'll be missing you every second nail you will I'll request one of your favorite songs. What do you want daydream Believer?

5:37 Sure that would be a great one. All right, are you ready to get into the case. Yes, yes I am. I just nodded, but I forgot I had to talk. Well, I'm going to tell you a really horrible story, and I apologize to everyone listening. I didn't realize how brutal and graphic this story was until I was kind of knee deep into the research. My primary source for this episode is a book called Let's Kill Momana Fielder, and she did a very good job telling the story. Donna changed several people's names in the story, and I didn't want to reveal their identities because they didn't want their identities revealed. So I'm just staying with the names that Donna used, and those. Names are Amy White, Merrily White, Kate Morton, and Steven Morton.

6:21 And again to warn you, this is a hard, one, very graphic story. Well, you know, true crime isn't really my favorite thing to listen to, yeah, in my free time, but I don't know. Something about you telling it to me makes it a little more palatable. But okay, I appreciate that you have been a huge supporter of our podcast. You and your brother are both and we are very grateful for both of you. Oh well, I'm happy to be a love Mary kill nepo baby. Sorry, all right, let's get into it. On September twenty eighth, two thousand and eight, the small town of Roanoke, Texas, woke to a tragedy almost too brutal to believe it would shake the community to its core. Susan Bailey, forty three, a single mother who juggled two jobs and several side hustles to keep her family afloat, was found murdered inside her home, the place she had fought so hard to build, maintain, and hang on to for her children. Police had been by several times days earlier to do welfare checks, but no one ever answered the door. Susan was found that morning, lying face down on the carpeted hallway of her home. It appeared that she had been lying there for several days, as the blood surrounding the outline of her body was dried and crusted, the smell of death hanging heavily in the air. Rigor mortis had set in and had almost completely left her body, indicating that she had been there for at least twenty four hours since her death, and likely more than forty eight liver mortis had settled into her face and abdomen.

7:49 She had a contusion over her left eye from blunt force trauma. A ragged neck wound seemed to be the source of the blood spatter, but later it was learned that she'd been stabbed more than twenty times and her throat had deep slash wounds. Not far from Susan's body was a bathroom where three cell phones and a butcher's knife were found at the bottom of the bathtub, filled with several. Inches of water. There was no sign of forest entry or signs of an intruder. It wasn't a stranger who ended Susan's life. It was her own daughter, seventeen year old Jennifer, along with Jennifer's troubled boyfriend, Paul, sixteen, and Susan's youngest child, David, just thirteen, whose innocent face masked a growing storm inside.

8:30 Paul was no ordinary teenager. He had a history of violence, a disturbing obsession with death, and claimed he'd once been an executioner in a past life. David, still just a boy, was floundering in school, acting out and wrestling with behavioral issues that no one had managed to rein in. He too, played a role in the murder of his mother. Susan and Jennifer had fought often. Money was tight, tensions were high. Susan's long hours away at work left the kids too much time, too little suits, provision, and simmering resentments. One night, it all boiled over after Susan's succumbed to her injuries. The teenagers fled, stealing her car, taking the family dog, and heading north to South Dakota, as if distance could erase what they had done. But beneath the whorror lay deeper, harder questions. How had a home built on love turned into a battleground and what darkness could twist a child's heart into seeing their own mother as the enemy?

9:26 How you doing so far? I feel like this is gearing up to be very intense, But it's interesting how the children have the same age gap as me and brother. So. Susan Bailey grew up just outside Saint Paul, Minnesota, the second of four children. She had an older sister and two younger brothers. From a young age, she showed a gift for music, playing both the violin and the clarinet. Summers were spent at her grandparents resort, where she cleaned cabins, hooked meals, and helped with landscaping. But it wasn't all work. Susan and her siblings had plenty of time to swim, fish, boat and play games. After high school, Susan enrolled in a community college, focusing on business and accounting. She dreamed of working in the fashion industry. While in school, she took a job in the Levi's store, combining her love of fashion with a strong work ethic. By the late nineteen eighties, Susan was ready for a change. Tired of the long, snowy Minnesota winters and craving a fresh start, she packed up and moved to California. She landed a job at a clothing store and soon became a stylist.

10:24 Her customers loved her eye for fashion, especially the outfits she put together featuring her favorite color, pink. Not long after, she met Richard Bailey, a slight man with brown hair, brown eyes, and a small mustache. He was in the Air Force. In March nineteen eighty eight, Susan surprised her parents with the phone call She and Richard were married. Married life meant frequent moves, and Susan's college dreams were soon put on hold as she followed Richard's military career. In nineteen ninety, Richard left the Air Force and joined the Coast Guard. That same year, their first child, Jennifer, was born. Susan continued working in retail, often juggling long hours to support their growing family. After a brief stint with the Coast Guard, the Baileies moved in with Richard's parents in San Bernardino, California. Richard worked off and on, but never held a job for long. Susan, always driven, became a store manager at Jay Jacob's, a trendy boutique for teen girls. Four years after Jennifer's birth, their son, David, was born. While Susan worked, Richard's father helped take care of the children. In nineteen ninety seven, Susan was offered a promotion to district manager, overseeing stores across Oklahoma, Texas, and Louisiana. The family relocated to the Dallas Fort Worth area.

11:35 Susan traveled often for work, while Richard and the children stayed behind. They hated Texas, often talking about how much they missed California, but Susan was the family's main source of income, and the job was in Texas, there was no going back. They eventually settled in Roanoke, a small town of about ten thousand known as the unique Dining Capital of Texas, with more than sixty restaurants in shops. Wait, hold on, so, by unique dining cap do they mean like novelty restaurants, like unique restaurants or can you explain that? Do you know anything more? Well, that is a good question, and I don't quite have an answer for you. But the town is about twice the size of our. Town, and how many restaurants are in our town, like fifteen maybe, so to have sixty, I think it means that per capita, there's just a lot of restaurants, and maybe there's a few unique ones in there too. Okay, Yeah, I was thinking maybe it meant they had like a like a robot restaurant something like that.

12:28 But it's one of those things we talk about a lot in her family, how restaurants are so boring and we need more fun restaurants. Right, Yes, there should be a karaoke restaurant, like you said, a robot restaurant, or just restaurants that are more fun. Yeah. Well, anyway, the family built a three thousand square foot home in a quiet, family friendly neighborhood with a park just across the street. Susan had a talent for interior design and made the house warm and welcoming. She even sewed all the curtains herself. I think you did that one time. On I did sew some curtains. Yes, well, you're also a great homemaker. Oh that's very very generous of you. Sorry, I feel like I'm being extra nice to you because of the whole wedding thing. But anyway, to get back into the case, you're always nice to me. Well, you know, usually you're not always to me either, But we don't want to go there right now. We're gonna keep it cute, okay. So the family became close friends of neighbors, especially the Aiken and Barnes families, whose children were around the same age as Jennifer and David. For a while, life felt full and hopeful. It was a good time.

13:28 Unfortunately, the big, beautiful house in Roanoke quickly became more than the Baileys could afford. Susan did everything she could to keep the family afloat, She picked up sewing jobs, started selling Mary Kay cosmetics, and stretched every dollar as far as it could go. Richard remained mostly unemployed, though he took some college classes and looked after the kids. Occasionally, his family sent money to help. As Jennifer and David moved into adolescence, the strain inside the home started to show. Jennifer began stealing small things, at first from friends' houses. Kim Aken, one of Susan's closest friends and neighbor, confronted her directly. She didn't want to burden Susan any more than she already was. Sometimes Jennifer admitted to taking the item, and other times she flatly denied it. David, always a small and sensitive boy, was struggling too. He was getting into fights and still wetting the bed well into his school years, a source of embarrassment for him and frustration for the family. One night, while Susan was away on a business trip, Richard woke Jennifer in the middle of the night and told her to change her brother's soiled sheets.

14:33 Yikes, Richard sounds like a dead beat. He's not a good guy. No, Well, things got worse. Susan lost her job Jay Jacob's, the teen clothing chain where she'd work for years, went bankrupt and closed all of its stores. She quickly found a new position at Lane Bryan, a plus sized clothing retailer, but it didn't pay nearly what she'd been making. To make up the difference, she also picked up part time hours at bed Bath and Beyond. Do you remember bed Bath and Beyond. It's crazy that all of those stores closed. I know. So Susan was exhausted, always working, always behind. But for Susan, working long hours was easier than being home. Retention filled the air, and fights seemed to erupt over everything. She was stretched impossibly thin, carrying the weight of the household finances, much of the parenting duties, household tasks, and the emotional fallout from a home that felt like it was slowly coming apart. So Susan was working both of these jobs, but then she would have to come home and she would still have to clean, and she did a lot of the cooking, and that was That's a lot.

15:36 Yeah, that is a lot. I don't know how anyone can be apparent in work full time, let alone deal with all of this. Yeah, it feels really ton me too. So Cosmo has entered the room. Do you think this is too graphic for him? I don't think he's processing much of. What we're saying at all. Either you're saying he's simple, or. He could have a much darker mind than we comprehend. But I think Clover has the darker watching anyway. Yeah. By two thousand and six, as Susan had endured more than she could take, she filed for a divorce. Richard didn't even bother to show up for court. He didn't fight for custody, he didn't ask for visitation. Susan was awarded full custody of the children in ownership of the house.

16:16 Richard was ordered to pay child support, but it offered little relief. He never kept a job long enough for payments to be consistent or meaningful. While Susan worked long hours to cover the bills, much of the responsibility for David and the household tasks fell on Jennifer, now deep into her teenage years. Jennifer resented being forced into the role of caregiver. She didn't hide it, and Susan, exhausted and stretched thin, couldn't fix it. When Susan was home the tension didn't let up. Mother and daughter clash constantly. Their fights were loud and bitter, echoing through the house like a warning sign. David, now in middle school, continued to spiral. He got into fights at school and rarely turned in his homework. More troubling, he had started to self harm. Susan tried to connect with her children, carving out time for the few things they all enjoyed, watching movies together or reading. Those quiet shared moments offered a glimpse of peace, but they were few and far between.

17:11 Her job demanded everything she had, and there simply weren't enough hours in the day to hold the family together. Other than her frequent arguments with her mother, Jennifer had mostly stayed out of serious trouble. She got decent grades, had a solid group of friends, and while she wasn't particularly popular, she was well liked. That began to change during her senior year when she started dating a boy named Paul Henson, a junior who was a year behind her in school. To put it bluntly, Paul was the kind of kid many parents would find alarming. Tall and skinny, with long, unkept black hair, buck teeth, and a blank unsettling stare. Paul dressed entirely in black and seemed obsessed with the macabre. He claimed he'd been an executioner in a past life. He was fascinated by vampires and dark fantasy, and he fully embraced the East subculture of the time.

18:02 Most emo people I know are pretty chill, but he sounds little intense, are a lot intense. One friend described him this way quote he was easy going, but he had a temper. Sometimes he punched walls. Another friend joke that Paul had two personalities, one being Paul the laid back kid, and the other Tallos, a moody, aggressive alter ego. Once they began dating, Jennifer and Paul would hang out with friends to play Dungeons and Dragons and other role playing games. They shared a love of fantasy novels, and soon they were wearing matching dog collars engraved with each other's names. To her friends, Jennifer didn't seem like someone who'd fall into the goth scene. She dressed in bright colors, smiled off, and still came across as upbeat, but she did start to shift on other ways. Most notably, she began identifying as wickan Wicca meaning, which is a modern nature based pagan religion that emerged in the twentieth century.

18:58 It emphasizes spiritual connection to nature, seasonal festivals, and the practice of magic wickeds oft in honor a goddess and a God, and follow ethical guidelines like the Wickan Creed quote. And it harmed none to what ye will. Practices very widely, from group rituals and covens to solitary spell work, and there's no single authority governing the religion. Still, for Susan, Paul was a red flag from the start, and the changes she saw in Jennifer only deepened her concern. Their fights intensified. She forbade Paul from entering their home, hoping to set a boundary, but it only drove Jennifer further away. She ran away from home at least eight times.

19:40 Each time she was found at the same place, the small trailer Paul shared with his father and stepmother. What had once been. Teenage angst and growing pains was now something darker and more dangerous, and Susan, already overwhelmed and exhausted, was losing control of the one thing that mattered most, her daughter, Are you having a lot of empathy for Susan. Right now, Yes, definitely. She sounds like she's completely overwhelmed and exhausted, but also for Jennifer too, because it sounds like she was forced to care for her brother a lot of the time, and it's hard having a boyfriend that your mom doesn't approve of, even if he's a little crazy. Paul just seems like a walking red flag.

20:20 We'll be back after a break. Enter Merrily White, a freshman at the same high school as Jennifer and Paul. She and Paul became close friends, often tagging along and becoming a third wheel in his relationship with Jennifer. Jennifer resented having to share Paul's attention, but he came up with a bizarre solution. He told the girls that his two distinct personalities were each in love with one of them. Merrily believed she was dating the darker alter ego. Eventually, Paul convinced them to form a threesome, and all three believed they had been lovers in a past life. Oh jeez.

21:01 In two thousand and eight, Jennifer graduated from high school. Her grandparents, Kate and Stephen Morton, traveled from Minnesota for the ceremony, as did her mostly absent father Richard. During the visit, the Mortons offered to take thirteen year old David back with them for the summer. They now ran the Lakeside resort, where Susan had worked as a teen, and she was thrilled by the idea David, glued to video games could use a change of scenery and some real life adventure. Jennifer had plans to attend the Art Institute of Dallas that fall, but the tuition was steep. Susan took on extra hours at work to help, while Jennifer worked too, trying to save up. There wasn't enough money for Jennifer to live on campus, so she would have to commute. Susan couldn't afford another car, so she'd have to take public transportation. Jennifer was deeply angry about this.

21:46 She wanted her freedom more than anything else. Freedom from rules, from supervision, and especially from her mother. Paul remained a constant source of conflict between them. Susan couldn't understand what her daughter saw in him, but eventually stopped trying to intervene. No matter what she said, Jennifer found ways to see him anyway. Meanwhile, David was enjoying life at the summer resort, spending more time outdoors and learning new skills. Grandma Kate was happy until he had a meltdown when she wouldn't buy him a snorkeling set. He eventually got over it, but it was symbolic of how the rest of the summer would go, and she would never forget how irate he became when he didn't get his way. Susan had generously bought both Jennifer and David's cell phones. Their first bill was over seventeen hundred dollars as both teenagers went way over their data plans. I'll remember when you didn't have unlimited data. It was tough. Yeah. Then Susan found her checking account was overdrawn by two hundred dollars. She called her bank, confused. There was no way this was possible.

22:46 She knew her balance to the penny. The bank informed her that there were several checks drawn on the account. Jennifer had stolen checks from her mother and forged her signature. She claimed that she'd borrowed because her paycheck was late from her fast food job, but Jennifer had actually quit the job weeks earlier. Poor Susan was exhausted. In September two thousand and eight. Without Susan Bailey's knowledge, Paul Henson and Merrily White were living in her house. David kept their secret. Susan was almost always at work, so the teens had the run of the house. They had sex, played video games in Dungeons and Dragons all day. They spent the day complaining about their parents and dreaming about their futures. If only their parents would leave them alone forever so they could live their lives in peace. We need to get rid of them. Let's kill them all.

23:35 It started as a joke, but then it grew serious. It really would solve everything. They could run away to Canada and start a new life. They decided to start with Susan Bailey. She was the worst parent, Jennifer insisted. Jennifer demanded that David be included in the plot, not wanting to leave him behind despite his annoyances. The plan came to them electrocute Susan in the bathtub, shoot Paul's father and stepmother, and stabbed Merrily's mother in her sleep. But on the third day of Merrily's disappearance, her mother, Amy desperate and afraid, drove from her home in Fort Worth to Roanoke to search for her. She finally spotted Merrily, just fourteen years old, wandering the street in a daze.

24:16 Amy pulled over, forced her into the car, and took her home. Marrily was frantic, ranting about vampires and tangled past lives involving Jennifer and Paul. She referred to Paul as her scarecrow god. Completely overwhelmed, Amy didn't know what else to do, so she called the police. When the officers arrived, they talked with Merrily and made her promise to not run away again. She agreed. It appeared her breakdown stemmed from Paul and Jennifer ending their relationship with her. Amy White awoke early the next morning to a terrifying sight Merrily looming over her with a large butcher's knife in her hands, raised over her head and ready to strike. She demanded the car keys and money. Amy was able to escape and call nine one one. On the recording, the dispatcher heard yelling.

25:02 Put that knife down. What the hell do you think you're doing? Throw it down, Give me your cell phone and the car keys. I have to go with them. I'm not giving you my car. You are not driving. We were all supposed to go and you ruined it. That third grade drama camp really paid off. It's too bad I never became a movie star. Never too late, Darling. The police arrived and took Merrily away to a juvenile detention center and charged her with an aggravated robbery. Thirteen year old David also got in trouble that day. He'd brought a knife to school. Someone told the principal and he received a three day suspension, and later that day police went to the Bailey's home looking for Paul. His father had finally reported him and his gun missing. Susan was adamant with police that he was not allowed in her house and she would have known if he'd been hiding out there. Law enforcement told Susan they needed to search for the lost gun. They didn't find the gun, but found Paul's suit case and wallet stashed in Jennifer's closet.

26:00 Jennifer insisted to the police that she hadn't seen him in days, but they could tell she was lying. Susan and Jennifer argued openly in front of the police. She was angry because she thought her daughter had broken things off with Paul. Susan said, I told you, Paul is bad news. You have three choices. You can go to California to your other grandparents, or you can go to Minnesota, or you can go live with your dad. The officers searched Jennifer's phone and the suitcases in her closet. It appeared that she and Paul were serious about running away from home. Among Paul's belongings in the suitcase were four knives. Officers also found a prescription bottle of zolaft with the name Merrily White on the bottle. They did not find Paul.

26:41 If they had, maybe the tragic events that followed could have been stopped. Susan had worked another long day at two jobs. She returned home just before midnight to an eerily quiet house and walked straight into the trap set by the teens. Where are the kids, she wondered. Earlier that night, Paul waited at his father and stepmother's trailer with the stolen twenty two caliber pistol to make good on his promise to kill them. He planned to shoot them both. He waited for hours, but they didn't come home. Paul didn't have time to wait because he needed to help Jennifer with the next step of the plan. Luckily for the Hensons, they decided to go to dinner and a movie instead of going home after work. When Susan reached the top of the stairs, someone grabbed her. Three figures were in the shadowy hallway in front of Jennifer's room, their mouths covered with bandanas. Susan yelled. Jennifer called the police, not realizing one of the figures was her daughter. Jennifer began stabbing her mother repeatedly on her front. Susan's eyes grew big with the realization that her children were trying to kill her. Paul slit her throat with another knife and then drew the blade across her neck again for good measure. The three teenagers were yelling and rooting each other on the whole time. Susan fell to the ground dead.

27:52 The day before, Jennifer had made pudding and offered a bowl to Susan. After just one bite, Susan recoiled. It was so bitter she couldn't eat another spoonful. Suspicious, she accused Jennifer of trying to poison her. Jennifer claimed the milk must have gone bad, but later police discovered the truth. Jennifer had crushed an entire bottle of tile and all into the pudding, hoping it would knock Susan out so David could finish the job. The day after the brutal attack, Friday September twenty sixth, two thousand and eight, at one thirty six pm, officers Shane Norman and Nat Meadows and Jimmy Hutchinson all drove to the Bailey's house in Roanoke for a welfare check. The house was quiet. It appeared no one was home, not even the dog. Susan's blue Saturn was missing. The officers weren't aware of the recent troubles at the house. They radioed back to the department that they were unable to locate a code that would activate a future welfare check. At six pm, another officer knocked on the door, and again no one answered. Kate Morton worried about her daughter and grandchildren all weekend, as did her coworkers at both of her jobs. She hadn't shown up at either job. At four thirty pm, Kate, who the emergency contact for the Baileies, got a call from the Roanoke Police department. She wrote the following later in her journal, quote, David not in school that day, Jennifer not at work for six weeks. They went by the house, no activity. They must be all together. Why are you bothering us? Because it is unusual. Susan didn't call to say and didn't show or call at work.

29:23 Worried and waiting. So she's writing just some brief notes here. And when she said why are you bothering us? I think that's what the police were saying to her, like, you know, what's the problem here? You know, they probably just went out the out of town for the weekend. That's what the police were probably thinking. There were a lot of question marks there. Kate felt hopeless in Minnesota. She was calling their phones endlessly, trying to get a hold of her daughter or grandchildren. On Sunday, September twenty eighth and yanked. In South Dakota, an officer working the graveyard shift spotted a blue Saturn at a closed gas station after three as three teens and a dog were in the car, He asked to see the driver's license of the boy behind the wheel.

30:05 He handed the officer a learner's permit with shaky hands. The kids all looked petrified. The officer called for back up and separated the kids into three different patrol cars. One of the teens, seventeen year old Jennifer Bailey, said they were on their way to see their grandmother in Minnesota but ran out of gas. The police quickly learned that the driver, Paul Henson, was a runaway from Roanoke, Texas, and might be in possession of a stolen gun. They were eight hundred miles from home. I should mention that Jennifer, even though she was seventeen, did not have her driver's license. The officers didn't trust Jennifer. She was acting cagey and her story didn't add up. Eventually, she relented that they run away and had stolen her mother's car. Jennifer said that she was worried about her mother because she hadn't been able to get in touch with her. Her mother had an abusive ex boyfriend named Joe who might have harmed her. She did not have an abusive ex boyfriend named Joe. The children were into custody while Gington police tried to figure out what to do with them and why they had been heading toward Canada in the first place.

31:07 After hearing about the three teenagers apprehended in South Dakota early on Sunday, before the sun was up, the Roanoke police headed back to the Bailey home again. This time they gained entry through an unlocked window. They found the Bailey's home was very nice and tastefully decorated. Great care was taken in choosing the furnishings, but the home was dirty, cluttered, and in bad repair. Pizza boxes were on the floor, three gallons of milk sat spoiling on the kitchen island, and dishes covered every surface. It was clear that Susan was working long hours and had nothing left to give at the end of the day, and her children did not help her despite her constant please. Other than the mess, nothing remarkable was found on the first floor. As they climbed the stairs to the second floor, they found Susan laying face down on the carpet. Three cellphones and a knife were found in the partially filled bath tub. In the primary bathroom, a towel filled with dark hair was lying atop a hamper. It appeared that Paul had given himself a hasty haircut to alter his appearance. Because the roano PD had never handled a homicide before, and the grisly nature of the crime scene. The officers were emotional and queasy. It was hard to fathom children killing their mother.

32:19 The officers had just met Susan days before, and she seemed like a kind woman who tried her best to provide for her children. Matricide, the act of a child killing their mother, is among the rarest forms of homicide in the United States. It accounts for less than two percent of all murders where the relationship between victim an offender is known, totaling three to five hundred cases a year, and when it comes to daughters killing their mothers, the numbers drop even lower. Girls are responsible for only one to two percent of these already rare crimes. By contrast, around seventy percent of parricides involves sons killing their fathers. Research from the US and Canada confirms that mattrisside it is far less common than patricide, and when it does happen, it almost always occurs inside the family home. The typical offender is an adult sun most often white, between the ages of twenty and fifty, with no prior record of violent crimes. Teenage daughters are the least likely group to commit matricide. Victims are usually older women between the ages of forty and ninety five years old, with the average around sixty one. The most common weapons used are blunt instruments, knives, or firearms. Mental illness plays a major role in many of these crimes. Over half of matricide offenders are diagnosed with serious psychiatric conditions, most commonly schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders.

33:41 In fact, roughly seventy percent of matricide cases are believed to be driven by delusional thinking or psychosis, one of the. Most chilling aspects. Nearly three quarters of these killings happen without a warning sign, and in about thirty percent of cases, the murder is followed by the offender taking their own life. Adolescents under eighteen make up about fifteen percent of matricide offenders, so when a teenage girl is involved in the murder of her mother, it stands out not just as tragic but as a statistical exception. Oftentimes, the daughter's boyfriend is the one who ultimately takes the mother's life. So we have matricide, which is killing of mother, patricide which is killing of the father, and parricide, which is just a general term for killing one's parents.

34:26 Good to know. When Susan's body was discovered, it quickly became clear that Roanoke's small police force was in over its head. They called in the Texas Rangers, the most experienced and respected law enforcement officers in the state. There was no sign of forest entry and nothing had been stolen except for Susan's blue Saturn. That fact, combined with the circumstances, made it clear that the teens were the only real suspects. In Texas, when murder is committed alongside another felony like stealing a car, it isn't just murder. It becomes capital murder. Had Jennifer, David and While only killed Susan without committing any other crimes, they would have faced first degree murder charges, but because they also stole Susan's car and credit cards, the charges were elevated to capital murder, making them eligible for the harshest penalty under Texas law, the death penalty.

35:17 Despite their age. Oh man, even the youngest, like he was thirteen, right he was thirteen? Yeah, I can't believe they thought they would get away with it. I mean, obviously their children, but still, well, I don't think the thirteen year old, he probably wouldn't have been eligible for the death penalty, but I think the other two would have. Because I'm I'll read on from the onset. Investigators were convinced the trio had killed Susan, but belief wasn't enough. They needed to build a meticulous case, ensuring no piece of evidence was missed and every link to the teens was clearly established. As investigators canvassed the Bailey's neighborhood, most residents described the family as quiet and withdrawn. They noted that while the Baileys had once been friendly with several families, things had changed after the divorce. One recent and disturbing incident involved neighbors witnessing David's streaking through the backyard while masturbating.

36:10 Another neighbor shared a rumor that David had killed the family's cat, which notably had never been found. Okay, so he killed their cat and he was a budwetter. Isn't that part of that? The triad? What's it called? McDonald triad? Oh? I think fire setting is also is the third component of that. I believe it has been largely disproven, though interesting and at the end, we're going to talk about the cat again. After his son's arrest, Paul Henson Senior said quote, I don't think my son is that stupid or that crazy. I got a strange feeling that he was not involved in it. I think he got caught. In a web of things. When he was interviewed by police, Paul insisted that he hadn't been in the house at the time of the murder. He claimed that David had been the one who killed Susan, but forensic tests revealed that the frayed why of an extension cord dangling over the bathtub contained his DNA, and at least one of his fingerprints in Susan's blood was found. When they asked where he hit his father's gun, he said it was in the Bailey's attic, and police later recovered the gun there.

37:16 The crime scene inside the Bailey home resembled a house of whoors. It was immediately clear this wasn't a spontaneous act of violence. Investigators uncovered multiple chilling plots that children had devised to kill Susan. A rancid, moldy bowl of poisoned pudding sat on the kitchen counter. Why are you laughing? With a smaller dish found in Susan's bathroom. An extension cord dangled ominously over a bathtub filled with water, an apparent plan for electrocution. A baseball bat lay on Jennifer's bed with a knife hidden beneath it. Another knife was discovered tucked under the living room couch cushions. The children hadn't just killed Susan. They had carefully considered and prepared for several different ways to do it. So can you visually have like traps set everywhere?

38:02 Like well, if we can't get her with the baseball bat and the knife, we'll get her this way, you know, Yes, have multiple sociopathic home alone basically exactly. Susan had been stabbed multiple times in the back of her head and neck. Blood spatter in the hallway indicated the violence had started there, but the relatively small amount of sprays suggested that Susan had died quickly. Still, so much blood had soaked into the carpet that days later it remained wet in spots. A crusted over, bloody outlines surrounded Susan's body. The distinct chemical scent of cleaning products hung on her clothing nearby. Three bandanas, likely used by the teens to hide their faces, were found discarded near Susan's body. A particularly disturbing detail was a long, smeared blood transfer on the carpet, as though one of the kids had wiped their hands clean directly on the floor.

38:51 Bloody fingerprints were found on the hallway walls, in the bathroom, and on Jennifer's bed. A bar of soap bore deep crescent shaped gouges from fingernails into it. Band Aid wrappers were strewn throughout the house, evidence that at least one of the killers had been injured during the attack. Investigators quickly determined that the cleanup had been deliberate. A bottle of Formula four O nine cleaner was recovered, along with a walnut receipt timestamped five thirty five PM from the day of the murder. Surveillance footage showed David riding his bike to make the purchase, which also included a pack of playing cards. Detectives believed the teens had attempted to wipe down the murder weapon and their cell phones to eliminate fingerprints in DNA, but then decided to submerge them in the tub to destroy them. This detail was crucial.

39:38 It showed premeditation and David's active participation in the plot. Officer sees everything that could hold potential evidence, the family's computers, both Susan's and Jennifer's, wallets, notebooks, binders, computer discs, and all the knives in the home. A pile of Paul's cut hair and the freight extension cord were also bagged as evidence. Jennifer's hiss bedroom door had visible blood spray and was taken off its hinges and seized. Chunks of drywall and bathroom tile with bloody fingerprints were literally chiseled out for forensic analysis. One item that puzzled investigators at first was a school id belonging to Merrily White. No one at the scene could immediately explain who she was or how she.

40:19 Was connected to the crime. Authorities moved quickly in order to ensure that Jennifer, David, and Paul would be held in custody. The State of Texas charged all three with capital murder. The trio were being held at a juvenile detention facility in Sioux Falls awaiting extradition back to Texas. In South Dakota, the teens getaway vehicle. Susan's blue Saturn was searched, was cluttered with clothing to scarted, fast food wrappers, and a few personal items. Oddly, the teens. Had brought very little in the way of warm clothes, despite their apparent plan to escape to Canada. Investigators found one of Susan's credit cards in the car, but one thing that was missing was Paul Henson's pistol. Officers later returned to the Bailey home armed with Luco crystal violet, a chemical that reveals bloodstains even after they've been cleaned.

41:06 The bathroom surfaces lit up with a tail purple glow. The showers, the tub, even the walls all were streaked and spotted. The teens had apparently showered after the murder. According to detective Brian Peterson, quote, those kids had a lot of blood on them. I hate to think what they might have done to her. They are the spawn of Satan. The horror didn't done there. A neighbor who volunteered to mowd the Bailey's now overgrown lawn had made another grizzly discovery. There were two more knives hidden in the grass. Searches of Paul and Marilen's homes followed. In Paul's room, surprisingly tidy, police found a book titled The Demonic Bible, and notes and other documents that proved that they had been plotting Susan's murder.

41:47 For some time. In Merrily's home, two. Computers and hand written notes were taken by police. We'll be back after a break. Sorry, this case is so heavy. Yeah, there's something especially disturbing about mattricide. But I was thinking about Paul and how he thinks he was an executioner in a last life. I think he's gonna end up being a cockroach in his next life. Let's hope so, and hope we get stepped on. An autopsy was performed nearly a week after Susan's murder. The Texas heat had accelerated the process of decomposition, and many of her internal organs had broken down, making a grim task even more difficult.

42:32 The pathologist's findings told a horrific and detailed story. Susan had been stabbed at least twenty six times from the front and the back, in an attack that could only be described as frenzied. The wounds on the front of her body were shallower, likely inflicted by Jennifer. On her left side were lighter, almost hesitant scratches, possibly the work of thirteen year old David, But it was the deep, forceful stabs to her back that spoke of a stronger hand Paul. Two of those wound us both on her back, severed her spinal cord and rendered her completely helpless. As she was dying or nearly dead, the stabbing had continued. Her left hand was slashed with defensive wounds a mother trying desperately to fight off her own children. On her upper chest were five parallel slashes, likely from repeated chaotic strikes.

43:19 Behind both of Susan's ears, there were deep gashes that cut through flesh and tissue. Fatal slashes through the carotid artery and jugular vein nearly decapitated Susan. The most haunting injuries were clustered at the back of her head, nine stab wounds in total. The pathologists believed that the attacker had tried and failed to drive a flimsy knife through the bone of her skull. One blade had bent under the pressure. It was an act of violence, both brutal and clumsy, carried out with desperation, fury, or both. Okay, you did a good job with that. That was really hard and graphic. Yeah. The official cause of death was listed as multiple stab and incised wounds of the neck caused by an assault by another individual. The manner homicide, the devastation and depravity that unfolded in that narrow hallway, a mother surrounded and attacked by her own children and a troubled teenaged boy is beyond comprehension for most of us.

44:16 Several members of law enforcement traveled to South Dakota to visit Paul, Jennifer, and David in the detention center. Jennifer was icy, belligerent and mostly silent during the interview, but she did answer one question. When asked why she killed her mother, she answered, quote, we just didn't see eye to eye. Jennifer's hands, arms, and back were covered in scratches and bruises. Susan it appeared had fought back hard. Paul had a strange wound on his left arm, a long, shallow, gash, angry and red, stretching across the front of his forearm, half way between his shoulder and elbow. When an officer asked about it, Paul shrugged and said he had done it himself. Just a little cut, he explained, something he would slice open, and then the wound had clearly been reopened and tended to in the same disturbing way over and over again. Isn't it gross? It's disgusting. Sounds like he has some mummy issues too, though, and around his neck he wore a necklace with a small vial on it filled with what appeared to be blood. Paul was adamant he had nothing to do with Susan's murder. He never touched her, he claimed. This made the detectives even more determined to prove that he was involved. Investigators doubted that David or Jennifer had the strength to inflict some violent stab wounds found on Susan's body. Here's former Roanoke Police detective Brian Peterson talking about interviewing Jennifer and Paul.

45:40 Paul was not obstinate. He was very uh. He might not would talk, but he would just set there, hold his head down when he didn't want to talk or He was never controversial. Now I can tell you when we'd start talking to Jennifer, her eyes would glaze over and she would stare a hole through you. I mean, she was very for a kid that age. It was scary to see the way she would respond to the questions. I remember she was being really hard toward us in our interview and Tracy Murphy and he's a good interviewer, and he's got him there and Jennifer's there and she wasn't breaking and he said, Jennifer, I'm going to tell you this is your first murder, but this is not my first.

46:28 I forgot to mention this earlier. But David, the thirteen year old, he was really small for his age, and I don't know if he'd yet reached puberty. He looked more like a ten year old. So a lot of these stab wounds, and remember Paula is saying that David did a lot of the stabbing. He would not have been strong enough to make some of those those slashes, and like the wounds to the back of her neck and in her skull, he wouldn't have been strong enough to be able to do those. Richard Bailey arrived in South Dakota to pick up Susan Saturn after the police had finished processing it. Ginger, the dog had been kept at an animal shelter Richard didn't want the dog and relinquished his rights. She was probably put down. Richard didn't want anything to do with his children either. He returned to Minnesota and didn't see them.

47:12 Don't you kind of hate Richard? Yeah, I mean you have to wonder how different things might have been if he stuck around. On October first, three officers drove two squad cars from Roanoke, Texas, to Yankton, South Dakota to retrieve Jennifer, David, and Paul. It was an eleven hour trip. Once back in Texas, the boys were booked in Denton County Juvenile Detention Center. Jennifer, days away from her eighteenth birthday, was booked in a jail for women. Jennifer cried through the night, and when a guard asked what was wrong, she said, quote, I want my mom. That is very sad. Yeah, it makes me wonder if she's starting to have some remorse or realizing the weight of what she just did.

47:52 I think it's indicative too that she did have love for her mom, and she realized that her mom was her supportive parents, and Susan's death shadowed her family, especially her mother Kate, Kate and Susan had always been close, but Susan was so busy with work and the kids, she hadn't had much time for her. Even when Kate traveled to Texas to visit, their time together was often stolen by long hours and double shifts. Now they would never get that time back, and even worse, she'd likely lost two of her grandchildren to long prison sentences. Kate had known there were struggles with the children, but nothing could have prepared her for the truth. Their betrayal of their mother cut deeper than she could have imagined. She was disgusted by Jennifer and David, yet torn heartbroken, unsure if she could bring herself to face them. In Minnesota, a memorial service was held for Susan. Kate hadn't known how to talk to people about the family tragedy and was overwhelmed by the kindness and empathy of people. Their warmth didn't erase the pain, but it reminded her she hadn't been left to face it alone. Later, Kate and several other family members traveled to Texas for a second service and to face the brutal, painful task of cleaning out the beautiful, comfortable home that Susan had made for her family. Susan's brother was so angry he threw everything from Jennifer and David's rooms into the trash.

49:10 Kate made one. Half hearted attempt to see her grandchildren, but was told that there were no visiting hours on that day. She never tried to see them again during that visit. I don't blame Kate here. I think it would be really hard to see them and not strangle them, you know. I would be so disgusted. After a little time had passed, Kate decided that she'd start writing letters to her granddaughter. Jennifer wrote back quickly and said that she'd hope Kate could forgive her some day, and that she'd found God. In March two thousand and nine, Kate returned to Texas. She saw David. He was happy to see her and gave her a big hug while she wept. He said, it's okay, Grandma. She replied angrily, it is not okay, David. What happened?

49:51 He said he couldn't talk about it and just wanted to be happy, which made Kate even angrier. She wanted him to say he was sorry, but he didn't. Merrily had made a pact with Paul and Jennifer. None of them would ever rat out the others, and if need be, they would all go down together. She was distraught when she had to break that pack, but she didn't want to go to prison for the rest of her life, so she talked to the police. She admitted that the attack was largely planned by herself and Jennifer. Meanwhile, Paul Henson Junior was in a psychiatric hospital with stress related issues. Authorities needed him to be in better mental health before trying him as an adult. It was impossible for law enforcement to know exactly what happened on the night of September twenty fifth, two thousand and eight. The three teens were tight lipped and told different versions of the story. Only one thing was certain. Susan Bailey was dead and Jennifer, Paul, and David were responsible. I guess that's two things. Who writes these things? The goal with such young defendants is to rehabilitate rather than to punish, but due to the severity of the crime, prosecutors decided to try Paul sixteen as an adult. After his stint in the hospital, he was sent to juvenile attention until a hearing was held, in which he was pronounced a legal adult. Paul was then moved to the adult section of the Denton County Jail. Can you mention how scared he must have been. I mean, he kind of had it coming, right.

51:12 I'm not saying I feel sorry for him, but I'm just saying he must have been petrified of you know, all these big guys, and you know, here's this little guy. Well he's tall, but he's really skinny. Yeah. However, David, at just thirteen at the time of the horrendous murder, would be tried as a juvenile. When he turned eighteen, his case would be re examined. None of the teens were offered bail. It wasn't until two thousand and five that the Supreme Court changed the ruling that miners could be sentenced to the death penalty. Before the Supreme Court intervened, seventy three people were on death row for crimes committed as juveniles. Twenty three in Texas alone, juveniles could be sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Up first was Paul Henson Junior. On June ninth, two thousand and nine, he pleaded guilty to the reduced crime. I'm of the first degree murder of Susan Bailey. He confessed to his part in the murder and also admitted that he and Jennifer forced David to stab his mother too. He was sentenced to sixty years in prison. He will be first eligible for parole at age fifty seven on September twenty sixth, twenty thirty eight.

52:18 His official release date, if he is not paroled earlier, will be September twenty sixth, twenty sixty eight. In his sign confession, Paul described the attack. The account of the crime that we talked about earlier was the what police think happened. And this what you're about to read is. Paul's accounting of the crime. Oh boy, okay. On the night of Thursday, September twenty fifth, Susan came through the front door after a long shift at bed bath and beyond her name tags still pinned to her shirt. Bone tired, she climbed the stairs toward the bedrooms, unaware of what it was waiting. David stayed hidden in his room. Paul stood silently in the shadows of the game room, just out of sight. Jennifer waited in her doorway, ready to greet her mother like nothing was wrong. As Susan reached the top of the stairs, Paul suddenly lunged at her, stabbing her from behind. Jennifer joined in, attacking from the front.

53:09 It was a brutal, coordinated assault. David emerged hesitantly with a knife and, pushed by the others, made a few tentative cuts that barely pierced Susan's skin. In the end, it was Paul who delivered the wounds to Susan's back and neck that took her life. In October, a few months after Paul's plea deal before her trial was to start, Jennifer also accepted a plea deal with the same terms as Paul. But so they took the plea deal so they wouldn't be sentenced to the death penalty. Essentially okay, But at the plea hearing, Jennifer abruptly changed her mind and did not accept responsibility for her mother's staff. She claimed that she watched as Paul stabbed Susan and didn't participate. Susan yelled to her call nine when one, but she was paralyzed with fear. Paul had unplugged all of the phones in the house and forbid her from calling for help.

53:58 Jennifer claimed that she bagged Paul to stop and that David had stayed in his room during the murder. Jennifer sobbed on the stand. The prosecutor said that the evidence did not support Jennifer's claims, and the judge cautioned her that if she didn't admit to her part in the murder, that her plea deal would be nullified and that she would go to trial for capital murder. She had a few days to make up her mind. When she appeared in court again, Jennifer repeated the same basic story with a few minor changes, but the judge must have felt sorry for her and accepted her plea deal without Jennifer accepting responsibility. In late October, David had his day in court. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to twenty six years. When David turned eighteen and twenty thirteen, he was transferred to the Clemens Unit prison farm in Brazoria County, Texas in the Greater Houston area. October seventh, twenty thirty four, is his projected release date. He was first up for parole in twenty twenty one, but it was denied. Jennifer and David are allowed to write letters to each other.

54:57 David is now thirty. He too found God in prison and is in a praise band. Donna Fielder, author of Let's Kill Mom, interviewed Jennifer, Paul, and David in prison. David likely gave her the most accurate account of Susan's murder. He had admitted that on the night before her murder, Susan had eaten one bite of the pudding after. She'd fallen asleep. He went into her room with a knife to stab her, but decided he couldn't do it. He also revealed that he mixed bleach with the cleaner he'd ridden on his bike to Walmart to buy, and they'd put a rag soaked in the solution over Susan's mouth to knock her unconscious, and that's actually why they were wearing the bandanas. After Susan was dead, the teens were all panicked and crying.

55:38 Jennifer was vomiting, which is why they ran out of the house so ill prepared. They'd taken Susan's ATM card, but they didn't know her pin. They were forced to beg strangers for money. After the little cash they had ran out. David explained his actions, quote. In my mind, she hadn't been there for me. Now I realized that she had always been there. If I had sat down and thought about it, I would have realized how stupid I was. But I didn't. I was too immature. Words can't express how sorry I am. I made a choice and that choice was wrong. Nothing will ever excuse it. I have learned to appreciate. What I had. Mom loved me so much. Sometimes you don't know what you have until you lose it, and you can't never get it back. Jennifer followed the rules and mostly kept to herself in jail. Before her trial, she seemed depressed. She went to church every Sunday and maintained that she had found God. She entered into a relationship with an older witch inmate who provided her protection.

56:32 I'm sorry if that's I don't know how to say that in a PC way, but I don't know if there's. Any way to say it. I think that's fine. After her plea deal, she was transferred to the Mountain View Unit in Gatesville, Texas, and now resigns in the Hobby Unit prison in Marlin. Texas. Jennifer wanted to take college classes but has been prohibited because of the seriousness of her crime. Some inmates are actually allowed to go to colleges and take classes during the day, but I think once you murder someone, you know that right is taken away from you. When Donna Fielder visited Jennifer in prison, years into her sentence, she was the first visitor she'd had in two years. Her job involves transcribing textbooks into Braille, which she takes great pride in. Texas does not pay inmates for their work, so she has no money in her commissary account. In her free times, she likes to draw and play volleyball.

57:27 So again, because Texas doesn't pay its inmates, some inmates are allowed to take college classes like in while they're in the prison, like correspondence courses or online courses or whatever. But she doesn't have money to take any college courses. And in this case, I didn't realize your commissary account is so important, Like you only get like a teeny tiny bit of shampoo or deodorant unless you have your commissary account, or you have to wear like the worst shoes and you might not get like a sweatshirt or you know, like more comfortable uniform. So Jennifer, because she has no support from her family, doesn't have any of those things. Jennifer said quote, I'm not miserable here, but I do miss my family. I wish I could just go home right now. We don't give up hope here.

58:14 I have not given up. I will go home when God decides it is time for me to go home. This vision that Jennifer has at home no longer exists, and I don't know if she really comprehends that. Because the house that they lived in was sold. Her mother, who made their house a home, she killed her. So she's pining for something and wishing for something that she'll never have again. Right, it's really sad. I mean, I don't have a ton of sympathy for her because it's kind of her fault. But I also wonder how much Paul played into it. I don't know if you want to get into that yet. In twenty twelve, Candice De Lung's investigation discovery show Facing Evil interviewed Jennifer in jail, and Jennifer talked about when the relationship with her mom started to go bad.

59:01 Here's a clip. Well, at first it was just typical teenage rebellion, kid rebellion. And then it turned that my mom was also having troubles. She wanted the house to be clean all the time, which of course didn't always happen. But I'll never forget that my mom came to my school and pulled me out of school just to clean the kitchen and said I could not go back until I finished cleaning the kitchen. And you were nine. I was nine at the time. Yes, ma'am. That's very strict discipline for one so young. It seems to have deep significance to Jennifer.

59:45 And then my brother made the comment, well, I like my sister's cooking. My mom said, fine, from here on she can start cooking. And that was when I was eleven years old. So now you have cooking in yes, any time for schoolwork, playmates, girlfriends. Few, and fire between. Did your relationship with your mother ever recover? Nope? So it just got worse, just got worse. What do you think of that clip? I'm confused now because this adds a whole other layer. I didn't realize that Susan was at this level of abuse, Yeah, abuse, pulling her out of school at nine. I saw a.

1:00:29 Couple of clips of Jennifer talking and she came across to me as insincere and possibly lying. The episode of this show I found it on Amazon, and I believe I purchased it, but just her facial expressions, it just seemed like she was being manipulative. In my opinion, she does come off cold. I would say, mm hmm, and I just can't imagine a mom pulling their nine year old out of school to clean the kitchen, right. Jennifer maintains she. And David were not involved in Susan's murder. She claimed the drugged pudding was just to help Susan sleep because she was always so tired. She said the plan to kill her was Paul's idea, and she didn't stab her or hit her with a baseball bat. So Grandma Kate stopped writing to Jennifer in twenty twelve. She said she loved her grandchildren, but it was too emotional and she never knew which Jennifer she was going to get. Sometimes she was sweet and apologetic, and other times she was filled with rage and resentment. Paul Henson is now thirty three and resides in the GiB lewis prison in Woodville, Texas.

1:01:31 His father and stepmother visit him and make deposits into his commissary account. He suffered a debilitating injury after falling from the second tier of a prison unit. He broke both of his heels and now walks with a cane. He also suffers from severe depression, anxiety, and has been diagnosed with psychosis disorder, which might have played a part in all of this. He has tried to take his life's on several occasions. Dona Fielder also visited Paul in prison. He told her that Dave was responsible for stabbing Susan and said he signed the confession only because he was being medicated. He said Jennifer deserves to be exonerated and hopes they can be together again someday. Richard Bailey visited his children in prison initially, but says that he has PTSD and it prevents him from working, owning a car, and contributing to his children's prison commissary accounts. Merrily White received a five year probation for the attempted assault of her mother. She has stayed out of trouble and now she's married with children. Two thirds of Texas prisons don't have air conditioning and many reach temperatures above one hundred degrees during heat waves, and average of two people die per day in the Texas prisons, but they refuse to confirm their deaths are caused by the heat. That sounds totally miserable to me, you know, but prisons shouldn't be a comfortable place. The American Psychological Association lists eight warning signs of imminent violence and teens. They are frequent loss of temper, fighting, use of drugs, risk taking, behavior detailed

1:03:03 planning to commit violence, threats, hurting animals, and carrying weapons. Rest in peace. Susan Bailey. Susan, I forgot to mention this when we were talking about David and his story about how what happened that night. He said that they took the cat with them, and the cat was in the car with the dog. But they didn't have money really for food for themselves, let alone the dog or the cat, and they actually left the cat on the side of the road. So the cat that we had said, someone said, oh, David killed the cat. He said that they just let the cat out. It sounds like they could have eaten it. They really got desperate. But I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. You're making his scary face. I mean, no one loves cats more than you.

1:03:45 You are the cat whisperer. You are our cat's number one. This is not a good joke. I'm glad they weren't in the room just now. I have a few questions for you before we wrap up. Here. Were Paul, Jennifer, and David old enough to realize the finality of and the severity of their crime? Hm? I feel like that's different for all of them. I mean, we didn't really get into this yet, but I feel like Paul also had a weird upbringing and we don't know much about it, but it sounds like his parents were absent, right, and he was mentally ill. Yeah, I'm not really sure about his upbringing. His father does see him in prison, and I think his stepmother sees him in prison. So I'm not sure about his upbringing really, But he, out of the three.

1:04:29 Children, he had the most visible problems, right, And it seems like he was pretty comfortable with death. So curious about death, yeah, fascinated with it. Jennifer, I don't think she really knew what she was doing at the time. I think maybe she was so infatuated with Paul or just so desperate to be free. And David, I don't think he realized it at all. I think he was just too young, and I think he was immature for his age too. Yeah, they all had issues. I think ultimately none of them were prepared for the consequences. Do you think that Jennifer and Paul were attracted to each other because they both lacked a conscience?

1:05:11 Hmm? I mean do you think they were both you know, like born psychopaths or sociopaths. I think there's something too bad boys and maybe girls who are troubled being attracted to that sort of mentality. I don't know. I think well, sounds like they were a little emo, but I promise like most emo people, they just bond over listening to bands like My Chemical Romance and Pierce the Veil. They don't bond plotting to kill a parent. But that kind of goes with my next question. Were there miss signs that could have prevented this tragedy? And I feel like with teenagers, teenagers go through so much that a lot of the things that they were doing were just kind of Yeah, they were emo, teens, So it's not unusual to dress all in black, It's not unusual to be curious about other religions. And do you know what I mean, right, played dungeons and dragons. I mean, that's why they played dungeons and dragons to act out fantasies. Yeah, in a low stake setting. So I don't know. I think there's something seriously off. This is not it's not normal. I just feel in this case that it was really hard to predict that what they were going to do, right, I mean, going back to when I was seventeen, there were definitely hard times and times where, of course not wanting to murder my parents, but sometimes are that you were really, really, really nasty. You can be really rageful at that time. But I think, in the back of my mind, no matter how angry I was that you

1:06:43 or their world, I always knew that things would get better someday. And it sounds like for Jennifer and David things were bleak for so long that maybe they lost hope. I think, as a mom in retrospect, you know we're learning on the job. You're our oldest child, and you know I didn't know a lot of what I know now, and I don't think I realize the stress that teenagers are under today because you're growing up in such a different world than I grew up. And if I could redo one thing, I think that would be it is to maybe lead with empathy sometimes more than anger when you know you were maybe not in the best mood when you got home, and of course you would you know, I was the person that you would get angry with, and you know that gets old. But I wish I maybe would have realized that that, you know, you had a lot of stress and anxiety, and you know, I should have realized that more than I did.

1:07:34 Maybe. Yeah, being a teen is hard, but being a mom of a teen, I'm. Sure it's just as hard. Yeah, and we talked about this a little bit. But do you think their sentences were fair? I think so. I think it's unfair that Jennifer is not able to take college classes. I think that's a Texas thing because Texas doesn't pay their inmates and they don't pay for the tuition. Oh, I think in other states. I think there's only actually a handful of states that don't offer that. Okay, Well, I think David's. Sentence might be a little harsh because the injuries that he made on Susan weren't life threatening. We're just kind of scratches, and really we don't really know which injuries to account to, which which teenager.

1:08:17 That's true. Okay, Well, I'm sorry this was such a brutal case. You did a great job, and I'm sorry I made you cry. It's okay. I forgot to say this at the beginning, But Happy Teacher Appreciation Week to you and all our sweet listeners, because I know we have a lot of teachers that listen to us. I think teachers are amazing. I have so many teachers that I feel like just saw me and helped me through things. And I know you're a great teacher, and you had done a great teacher. David had really good teachers growing up. Just kidding, but yes, teachers do make a huge difference.

1:08:57 It's true. Sometimes you know, a teacher is the only person that's actually, you know, really seeing a kid. Why are you making that, I don't know. I oh, I just wasn't expecting you to start talking about teachers all of a sudden. So you have a big life change coming up, I sure do don't. So you're not so happy. I know I was gonna say, not that any of your listeners care, but I am moving out of your house in a month. Yeah, so no need to worry about me murdering you or seeing any suspicious boles of putting lying around. I'll be out of here. Okay. Well, I have complicated feelings about that. I lose a daughter, but I gain a closet. Good one. Mom. You know I'll miss your marvelous wit. I really will.

1:09:41 Well, I'm hoping that we'll still see each other once. Uh oh, yeah, we'll see. I think you're gonna what are you gonna miss from home? Your cookies, my sparkling personality. I'm gonna miss the cats. Uh huh, I'm gonna miss dad. Do you have any thing else you want to say before we wrap this up? Well? I do have one thing I think I said this last year, But just please be respectful to my lovely mom and dad in your reviews and in your comments. And you know, people really, really really are By and large, most people are just lovely. I know. But if you wouldn't leave a nice comment for Emma because she almost didn't come back this year, we'll do it again next year, maybe, if if you guys give her some If you did a great job.

1:10:30 I think you're a natural. Oh thank you. Well, I just start your own to do this podcast. What podcast would you start if you could start a podcast. If I could start a podcast, probably one where I invent a new novelty restaurant every week and we talk about the logistics of it. And Emma has big ideas. I have a lot of big restaurants, not just restaurant ideas. When I heard about how the town in Texas was named for unique dining, what's your favorite restaurant? My favorite restaurant. That's really tricky because I thought you're gonna say that's really personal. It is kind of personal because well, I don't want to get into too much into my personal life. But yeah, I do have some dietary restrict were trying not to talk about you too much on the podcast, but I think we have mentioned that you don't eat dairy. Yeah, except for in my cookies. Right, that's as hard I make.

1:11:18 But yeah, it's hard to find a good restaurant. But I don't know. I eat a lot of sushi. Yeah, I can't name the specific restaurant because I would give too much away, but it is too crowded. Next time you go. It's my secret yeaheah, gosh, no, I want to know. I'm not sure I know each restaurant you mean. I might tell you later. I know you like a sushi bowl? Oh? Like a poke caball? Yeah? Yeah, I haven't had that in a while. When you don't eat dairy, you end up eating a lot of rice rice cuisine. Can you sing us a little song before you we go? What kind of song? Like a preschool song? Whatever you want to sing? You know, they call me the human jukebox because I can sing most anything. Are you serious?

1:11:59 I can call me that, like at school. I don't think I've ever called you that. I guess I've always called myself that, but I never told anyone else. Doesn't Necessarily they don't call you that. You call yourself that, Okay. So Emma has like since you were little, you you're a very creative person, like you can well, you you danced your whole life. You like just you sing, You love karaoke. You have drawn since you were like eighteen months old. You could draw like you know a lot of things. So you're a really good artist. Yeah, keep in mind though I'm mediocre at all these things. I'm not like super skilled in anyone, true, but I'm yeah, I have an artsy individual. Yeah, all right, they'll sing us out? All right? Do you want to meet a freestyle something? Absolutely? I'd love it. Can you give me a beat? At least? Do you want to get a beat?

1:12:49 I can't. I really literally can't do that. Should I just go like? Oh god, this is embarrassing? Allait? Wait? Wait, wait, wait wait he stopped. You stop recording right now? Well, are you sure you don't want to going? I'm gonna lose emojo? All right? Going? Mary kill if it's the bill, I'm running up that hill. Kate bush eating. Bush, don't eat no pudding. It could have poison except poison. Berries are cool. And we love to go to school. Except when your mom makes you come back and clean. That's really me. Well, thank you for that. That was beautiful. Okay.

1:13:31 I was under pressure, so that's not the best representation of my abilities, but I. Thought you were gonna bring it. What was it the back to school song that you sang? No, no, we're not going there. Okay, goodbye, everybody, Thank you for listening. This has been very nice. I love you. You're amazing. Hopefully you'll come back next year if you're still doing the podcast. Don't talk anytime too. It doesn't have to be we do talk all the time until don't kill your mom, don't kill your daughter, and Happy Mother's Day to all our wonderful listeners. I love you guys so much, blowing you all kisses. Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Emma. That was you did it so well, always like you're just my baby, and I get so like you're so good.

1:15:03 I wanna be around my vegetables. I don't wanna chop down my vegetables. I prefer you talk like you're gonna talk