Dec. 14, 2024

The Santa Claus bank robbery of 1927

The Santa Claus bank robbery of 1927

Special holiday bonus episode! Christmas time, 1927, in the small central Texas town of Cisco. It’s a fast-growing, bustling town thanks to the oil boom of the early 20s. Two days before Christmas, children are laughing, shopkeepers are busy, and...

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Special holiday bonus episode!

Christmas time, 1927, in the small central Texas town of Cisco. It’s a fast-growing, bustling town thanks to the oil boom of the early 20s. Two days before Christmas, children are laughing, shopkeepers are busy, and families are preparing for festive gatherings. But no one knows that Christmas is about to take a dark, bloody turn. Santa Claus is coming to town – but he’s not bringing presents.

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Snacks: Peppermint meltaway cookies, gochujang caramel cookies, chocolate chip cookie bark, Christmas monster cookies

Sources:

WEBVTT

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Twas the night before Christmas in Texas, you know, way

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out on the prairie without any snow, asleep in their cabin,

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where Buddy and Sue a dreaming of Christmas like me

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and you, not stockings butt boots at the foot of

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their bed. For this was in Texas. What morning be said?

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When all of us sudden from out the still night,

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there came such a rucas. It gave me a fry.

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Howardy, Tina, Hey Rich, how are you?

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Why did you play a song from Texas? Was that

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geen Autry?

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But that was gene Autry, a little old gene Autry tune.

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Because we're going to Texas and we're going back in

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time to nineteen twenty seven for today. Awesome this special

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holiday bonus episode. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanza, Happy

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Boxing Day, happy festival. That's all I got.

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I hope everyone is having a warm and wonderful holiday season.

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We've been having a lot of fun here at Love

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Mary Kill Headquarters, Corporate Headquarters.

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We've been having fun, but you've been working very hard.

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You've appreciate all of your hard work getting right holidays.

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You know, I have a tip for everyone don't go

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pick up your Christmas tree in the dark. It's a

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Christmas tree lot. This year, you know, we were kind

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of crunched for time, so we went to the Christmas

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tree lot sometimes we go cut it down and we

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were like, yeah, this one's good because there was like

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this imposing man following us around with like what would

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you even call that?

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Like a big it was like a big measuring stiff,

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but it was. It was a big giant.

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There's like a hook on the end. Maybe he only

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had I don't know.

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It's like how tall of a tree are you looking for? Look?

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And if we looked at this tree that was taller

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than what we said, he was like, oh, you don't

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want that one, And I'm like, well, but anyway, the

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tree we ended up with is she's she's a little

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a slender one in daylight, she's a little sparse.

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Yeah, it's the.

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Every time I look at her, I'm like, I really

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thought that was the but I mean it's it's fine.

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Nice Charlie Brown Christmas tree.

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Some of the trees were upwards of like one hundred

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and fifty dollars and I'm like, that's that's insane.

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It is a little bit crazy. Welcome to this special

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holiday bonus episode. We put together some good content. We've

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got some fun things to do as well as the

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story of the nineteen twenty seven Santa Claus bank robbery.

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We also have a special snack today. We made cookies

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and we had a cookie making contest.

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We had a cookie bake off here at Love Mary

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Kill headquarters.

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Yeah, so you and I each made two recipes.

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We were just gonna make one, but both of us

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were feeling insecure, so I'm like, you know, I'm just

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going to try this other recipe.

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Yeah, I wasn't happy with my first one, so I

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think they're I think they're all good. But we had

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our kids. They were the judge were the judges, and

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you won hands down. So congratulations for that.

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Thank you.

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What's my prize?

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I get a one hundred dollars Love Mary get card

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to spend it.

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We've already got your prize. You got a handshake from

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our daughter and you got a hug from ourselves.

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Oh those were great, Yes, those were great.

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Would you like it?

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I was surprised when I got the handshake.

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Yeah, that was pretty impressive.

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Yeah, I was pretty excited because I was nervous. You're

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a very worthy opponent. You're actually you're a very good baker.

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You're very because you're a rule follower.

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Right exactly. I follow a recipe.

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To nt I. You know, I'm play loose with the

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roles sometimes but works in my favorite Yeah, what did

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we think?

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Why don't you tell everyone about your winning cookie? First?

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I had a professional in my corner. I love Sally's

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Baking recipes formerly known as Sally's Baking Addiction, and she

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has a ten day cookie Palooza she calls it, and

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I made two of her recipes.

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Can't go wrong with Sally and Sally's fabulous.

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If you've never made her recipes before, she's great. The

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winning recipe was her peppermint melt away cookies. It's a

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little shortbread cookie with some pink frosting on it and

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then a little crushed candy cane sprinkled on top, and

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there's a little bit of peppermint in the cookie and

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in the frosting. I think I had the peppermint because

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I like a hint of peppermint, but I don't like

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it to hit me in the face.

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They were amazing. If I had to vote, I would

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have voted for that as my number one.

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Also, after I made them, I was like, oh, I

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was going to lose because it's a really great cookie.

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It's a great Christmas cookie. I think it could be

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used any time of year. If you take the peppermint,

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you could be lemon in it, or you know, just vanilla. So, yeah,

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and what was your cookie one of your cookies?

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Well, the first one I made were Holiday Monster cookies,

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which you know contain all kinds of stuff, right Eminem's pretzels,

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chocolate chips, white chocolate chips, and oatmeal and oatmeal. Yeah,

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and then and so yeah, they were I think they

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came out pretty good. Yeah, they really I was happy

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with them. And then the other one I made is

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pretty unique. I had never tried this before. I just

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found it. I thought it would be interesting, and it

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was goch Jang caramel cookies. Yeah, which were I thought

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they were really good. They're kind of like a snicker

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doodle but with gotu jang swirled in it and it

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gave it a little bit of a kick, and I

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thought it was really interesting.

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Yeah, I'm not criticizing you, but it spread a little

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and so I don't know if did you not chill them.

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No, I did. That's how it was supposed to be.

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They look exactly like the recipe.

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Yeah, they're good. It's interesting. I liked it, but I

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wouldn't want it on my Christmas plate again, although it's

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kind of a interest. Does a little something to your

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palate because there is some spice there?

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Yeah? So yeah, and the other one you mad.

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And the last one I made was another Sally's recipe,

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and it's chocolate chip cookie Bark and it's I really

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like it. I don't think you liked it as much

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as I like it. But it tastes a lot like

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brownie brittle, has kind of like just a little hint

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of a burned taste.

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Yeah.

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I think that's because I actually didn't follow Sali's recipe

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because I like brown butter so much. She said to

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milk your butter, and I browned the butter, which I

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think whatever chemical reaction takes place when you brown butter,

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it made the cookie cook faster. Yeah, and so it has,

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but I mean I still think it's really good. And

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then you just melt some chocolate on top. We will

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post links to all these recipes and let us know

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if you try him.

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Yeah, I liked all four of them, so I thought

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it was really fun, and we're gonna try to make

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this an annual tradition.

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We're still around next year, I would I would definitely

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want to do it again.

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For still around. Oh, you made it for still podcasting

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next year.

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Well, I mean, you just don't know what twenty twenty

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five is gonna hold. It's just really quick. I'm just

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gonna rank how I rank them, Okay. I tried to

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be as fair as I could, but I did like

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my two cookies the best. I like the peppermint, the

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cookie bark, and then I would put your monster cookie

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and then I put the gochu Jing cookie last.

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Okay, fair enough, I would put the peppermint one first,

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I would put the go chu Jang one actually second,

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I like that a lot, and then the monster and

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then the brownie the cookie bark.

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Yeah.

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I liked them all. They were all yeah.

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I think our daughter voted the same as me.

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She liked both the years best. Yeah.

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And then our son did he like the he went peppermint,

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go Chu Jang uh cookie bark, and then the monster

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cookie last. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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One of our very kind listener friends, Cynthia, sent us

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some killer brownies, which is a great fit for our podcast.

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And somehow they got lost in the mail she sent them,

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I think a few weeks ago, and we just got

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them this week.

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I think our post office didn't our po box, they

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didn't tell us about them or something. Yeah, for a

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few days.

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And they were delicious and amazing. Even though they were

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a few weeks old. We still really enjoyed the heck

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out of them, and so did our kids. Our kids

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were like, oh my god, these are amazing. So I'm

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sorry we couldn't fit those into an episode, Cynthia, but

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we appreciate it so much, and they were delicious.

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Yeah, thank you so much for sending thost.

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We should start Maybe we should start a bakery called

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like Killer Bakery or something like that.

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Not a bad idea.

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Yeah, do you want to tell us about your case?

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I sure do. Picture the scene. It's Christmas time, nineteen

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twenty seven in the small central Texas town of Cisco.

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It's a fast growing, bustling town thanks to the oil

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boom of the early twenties. Two days before Christmas, children

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are laughing, shopkeepers are busy, and families are preparing for

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festive gatherings. But no one knows that Christmas is about

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to take a dark, bloody turn. Santa Claus is coming

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to town, but he is not bringing presents. Cisco, located

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in the Texas Big Country, forty miles west of Dallas

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and forty five miles east of Abilene, had grown from

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just over a thousand residents at the turn of the

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century to upwards of fifteen thousand by nineteen twenty seven,

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thanks to the Eastland County oil boom. To meet the

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growing need for water, the Williamson Dam was built north

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of town in nineteen twenty three, damming up the Sandy

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Creek and forming Lake Cisco. A few years later, a

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giant concrete swimming pool was built at the base of

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the dam, built as the largest swimming pool in the world.

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There was a big entertainment complex built next to the pool,

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with a skating rink upstairs, a zoo, and an amusement park.

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Big time entertainers like Bob Wills and his Texas Playboys

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would perform there. People would come from miles around, But

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it was a man named Marshall Ratliff who would put Cisco,

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Texas on the map. Marshall was a born troublemaker in

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April nineteen twenty six, twenty one year old Marshall and

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his older brother Lee twenty four, robbed a bank in Valera,

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sixty miles south of Cisco. It was a bold robbery

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in broad daylight. Marshall and Lee entered the bank while

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a third man waited outside in the getaway car. The

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rat lift boys pointed guns at the two cashiers, who

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held their hands up in the air while the robbers

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gathered up three thousand dollars in cash, which is about

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fifty three thousand dollars today. I said, stick them up

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for everybody. I'm robbing this place. Drop all of your

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money and my guitar case. Don't nobody move, and don't

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nobody read me like my sound effects I doo.

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So you're living your DJ dreams.

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Right here for sure, Marshall and Lee. He then ordered

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the cashiers into the vault so they could make their getaway.

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One of the cashiers protested, saying they would suffocate inside

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the vault. Please let me have a screwdriver, he begged,

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before we can get out. You fellows can easily be

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across the Texas border. The hold up men looked at

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each other briefly nodded, then handed the man a screwdriver

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before locking them into the vault. Thirty minutes later, the

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cashiers escaped and reported the hold up, but the Ratlift

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brothers were long gone and they nearly got away with it.

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But the rat Lifts spent the money from the heist freely,

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mostly on alcohol, it seems, and probably loose women and

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maybe so. And after getting a few drinks in them,

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they couldn't help but brag about their deed. Word got

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out and the deputies eventually tracked the men to a

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garage and Abilene, where they were found along with Lee's

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young wife Dovey. With them was also eighteen hundred dollars

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of the loot, although three thousand dollars had been stolen

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in total. The getaway driver had made off with the

239
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remaining cash. Marshall and Lee were urged by their weeping

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mother to tell the truth, and indeed they signed a

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confession admitting to the crime. Lee was given a ten

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00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:10.080
year sentence and Marshall, the mastermind behind the heist, was

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sentenced eighteen years behind bars. And that might have been

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the end of the story if it wasn't for Ma.

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Ferguson Miriam Amanda Ferguson, better known as Ma Ferguson, was

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the first female governor of Texas and only the second

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woman ever to serve as governor in any state. Nellie

248
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Taylor Ross of Wyoming was the first. She was elected

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the same day as Ma, but sworn in two weeks prior.

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Ma's husband, who you may not be surprised to know,

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was called Paw Ferguson. He had served as governor of

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Texas from nineteen fifteen to nineteen seventeen. He was impeached

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by the Texas Legislature because he cut funding for the

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University of Texas when they refused to dismiss certain faculty

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members who Paw found offensive. One of those faculty members

256
00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:01.600
had been a political opponent of him Is. The Texas

257
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.519
State Senate convicted him on ten charges and prohibited him

258
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from holding office in the state of Texas ever again,

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Pa was popular among the people of Texas, though, so

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in nineteen twenty four, Ma Ferguson ran for governor on

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the promise that she would consult her husband for advice

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if elected. She ran on the promise that citizens of

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Texas would get two governors for the price of one.

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At her rallies. She would basically get up and introduce PA,

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and then he would speak. One of their campaign slogans

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was ME for Ma and I ain't got a darned

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thing against PA. A columnist for the Houston Chronicle wrote, quote,

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there was never a question in anyone's mind as to

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who was really running things when Ma was governor. Though

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00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:51.200
she was a teetotaler like her husband, she opposed prohibition,

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00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:54.759
which had been in effect since nineteen twenty. She also

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opposed the Ku Kux Klan, not necessarily a popular opinion

273
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at the time. But what she was most known for

274
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during her time as governor was the pardons that she granted.

275
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She issued a total of three thousand, five hundred and

276
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ninety five pardons. That sounds like a very high number

277
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:12.240
for the time.

278
00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:13.399
I think it probably is.

279
00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:18.559
Many of these were for people convicted of violating prohibition laws,

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but rumor had it that many others were in exchange

281
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for cash payments to Paw Ferguson. Due to all of

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Mo's pardons, voters eventually passed an amendment to the state

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constitution stripping the governor of the power to issue pardons

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and granting that power to a politically independent Texas Board

285
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:40.639
of Pardons and Paroles. Even today, the board has to

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00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:44.360
recommend a pardon before the Governor of Texas is allowed

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to grant it. Two of the pardons she granted were

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for Marshall and Lee Ratliffe, just ten months after their convictions.

289
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Her reason for pardoning the Ratlift Boys is unknown. Once free,

290
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the brothers wandered around West Texas for a bit looking

291
00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:03.279
for work in the oil fields, but they were unsuccessful.

292
00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:06.399
They wound up in Wichita Falls at a boarding house

293
00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:10.200
run by a woman named Josephine Herron, also known as

294
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Maw not Ma but Maw Maw. With no job prospects

295
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.919
and preferring easy money over hard work, the boys began

296
00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:21.519
planning their next heist. They decided to rob the first

297
00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.080
National Bank in their hometown of Cisco, Texas, one hundred

298
00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:28.480
and twenty miles to the south. Their plans were disrupted

299
00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:31.639
when Lee got caught in another burglary and the new

300
00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:35.519
governor of Texas revoked his pardon. He was ordered back

301
00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.200
to prison to finish serving his sentence. In hindsight, that

302
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.120
was probably a lucky break for him. That didn't deter Marshall,

303
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.039
though he enlisted the help of two other ex khans

304
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:50.320
also staying at the boarding house, Henry Helms and Robert Hill.

305
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.440
A fourth man known as a talented safecracker, was also

306
00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:57.480
picked for the team. However, he came down with the

307
00:14:57.559 --> 00:14:59.399
flu just before the planned hes.

308
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:01.240
Probably lucky break for him as well.

309
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.399
Yeah, so Ratliffe asked helms brother in law, a guy

310
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.759
named Lewis Davis, to join the crew. Davis was a

311
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.320
twenty two year old family man with no prior criminal history.

312
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:14.360
He was broke and desperate, so the promise of a

313
00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:18.279
big payout lured him in. His only stipulation was that

314
00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.200
there would be no shooting involved. Ratliffe agreed, but you

315
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.879
know what they say about the best laid plans. The

316
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:29.080
boarding house operator, ma Hearn, later said that she knew

317
00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:32.559
that Ratliffe, Helms, and Hill were ex cons and that

318
00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.080
she didn't want them to be in her home quote,

319
00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:37.519
but it just looked like we couldn't keep them away

320
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.919
because they had just calm. Anyhow, she did say that

321
00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:44.679
the men were perfect gentlemen, though, quote all the time

322
00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:46.480
that they lived in my house, they had the best

323
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:49.720
manners I have ever seen gentlemen have They never used

324
00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:52.399
bad words and never said anything out of the way.

325
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:56.039
Marshall was a Christian boy and he had been converted

326
00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.279
in Cisco. She did, however, believe that Helms was ring

327
00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.799
a dope business out of her boarding house, which she

328
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:03.720
didn't approve of.

329
00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.240
This has no relevance to the case, but I have

330
00:16:06.279 --> 00:16:08.240
to add this. I was doing research on this case.

331
00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.120
I was looking at old newspapers from nineteen twenty seven,

332
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:15.000
and I really love reading old newspapers. But one of

333
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:17.960
the papers had a description of maw Heron in the

334
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.840
newspaper that I just had to include. Quote. Missus Heron

335
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.879
is of slight build and was dressed in Mannish attire

336
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.639
when brought here for questioning. She wore khaki trousers, booties

337
00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:31.960
which I guess are short boots, and a woman's gray coat.

338
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.480
Her hair appeared a reddish brown and looked as if

339
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.639
it were dyed. She displayed a keen wit and her

340
00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.600
dark eyes flashed while she talked. Her talk was somewhat

341
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:42.559
illiterate at times unquote.

342
00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:47.919
That's amazing. Old newspapers really were good at writing descriptions.

343
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.440
Marshall came up with a brilliant plan for robbing the bank,

344
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.879
and Cisco. They would strike on December twenty third, two

345
00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:58.159
days before Christmas. Because Marshall was known in Cisco, he

346
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.200
needed a disguise, and what better disguise for the day

347
00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.440
before Christmas Eve than a Santa suit. Not only would

348
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:07.079
the Santa suit serve as a disguise, it would also

349
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:11.200
ensure that bank employees and customers were unprepared. After all,

350
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.880
who would ever expect Santa to rob a bank. It

351
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:17.640
just so happened that Maharron had a Santa suit that

352
00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.400
she had made herself for her annual Christmas party. Marshall

353
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:24.640
asked to borrow it. Although she didn't know what exactly

354
00:17:24.680 --> 00:17:27.559
the boys were planning, she knew it wasn't good. She

355
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.720
later said. She begged Marshall not to take the Santa suit,

356
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:34.839
but he insisted. On the morning of December twenty third,

357
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:39.519
nineteen twenty seven, Ratliffe, helms Hill, and Davis set off

358
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:40.119
for Cisco.

359
00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:42.680
I've got a bad feeling about this.

360
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:43.319
Yeah.

361
00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.039
By the time the four men drove the one hundred

362
00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:49.000
and twenty miles from Wichita Falls to Cisco, it was

363
00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.319
close to noon. They stopped the car while Marshall Ratliffe

364
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.480
put on the Santa costume, and then he got out

365
00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:57.279
a couple of blocks from the bank. The remaining men

366
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:59.559
drove the car to an alley beside the bank, where

367
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:02.519
they would leave it running before joining him inside the bank.

368
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:06.920
As Ratlift walked toward the bank, excited children saw Santa

369
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:09.799
walking down the street. He waved to them as he

370
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:14.759
went by. Two little girls, Laverne Comer twelve and Mma Robinson, ten,

371
00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:19.200
followed Santa into the bank. As Ratliffe entered the facility,

372
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:23.279
customers and bank employees called out Hello Santa. Six year

373
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:26.519
old Francis Blazingame saw Santa go into the bank and

374
00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:28.400
pulled her mom in with her so she could get

375
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:32.359
a closer look at Santa. Just then, Hill, Helms, and

376
00:18:32.440 --> 00:18:35.599
Davis barged into the bank. Robert Hill pulled out his

377
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.720
gun and pointed at bank employees, yelling hands up. Ratliff

378
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.079
forced a bank employee to open the safe and he

379
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:46.079
grabbed all the cash and non negotiable securities like savings bonds,

380
00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:49.519
totaling more than one hundred and sixty thousand dollars almost

381
00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:53.119
three million dollars today. It was the largest bank heist

382
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:57.200
in Texas history to that point. But then everything seemed

383
00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.599
to fall apart for the Santa Claus bank robber and

384
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:02.920
his bank and of bandits. While the Santa costume may

385
00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:06.000
have been in effective disguise, the attention it brought would

386
00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:09.759
prove to be the undoing of the crooks. Missus Blazingame,

387
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.160
the mother of six year old Francis, who had dragged

388
00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:15.200
her mom into the bank to see Santa, acted quickly

389
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:17.880
when the men pulled out their guns. She grabbed her

390
00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:20.000
daughter and darted out the side door of the bank

391
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.480
into the alleyway before Ratliff and his boys could stop them.

392
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.319
As soon as they got outside, she shouted, they're robbing

393
00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:29.960
the bank, alerting Chief of Police Bedford and other citizens

394
00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.880
about the robbery in progress. Chief Bedford grabbed his gun

395
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.960
and ordered his two fellow officers to join him. The

396
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:39.440
officers showing up on the scene were, of course a

397
00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:42.119
problem for Ratliff and his men, but there was in

398
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.880
fact an even bigger problem. Because of the Texas oil boom,

399
00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:49.119
banks in Texas had a lot of cash, and because

400
00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:50.759
they had a lot of cash, there were a lot

401
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.519
of bank robberies. Not long before the Cisco Bank robbery,

402
00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:58.400
the Texas Bankers Association started offering a reward to any

403
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.039
civilian who shot and killed a bank robber. It was

404
00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.000
five thousand dollars for a dead bank robber and not

405
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:07.799
one cent for one hundred live ones. As the Banker's

406
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:12.160
Association put it, the head of the Banker's Association said, quote,

407
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:14.680
there is only one way to handle bank robbers, and

408
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.839
that is to kill them. End quote. With Missus blazing

409
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.200
games shouting about the bank robbery, dozens of Cisco citizens

410
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:25.119
quickly showed up, guns in hand, hoping to collect on

411
00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:28.880
the five thousand dollars reward. Oh no, it's over ninety

412
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.440
thousand dollars in today's dollars.

413
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.039
So I mean that's a lot of money. About all

414
00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:34.240
these people with Santa and the kids in the bank.

415
00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:35.359
If this isn't gonna end.

416
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:38.160
Well, it is not a recipe for anything good to happen,

417
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:42.799
A happy story. Not a lot of happy, good true

418
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.680
crime stories out there. The bank robbers were quickly surrounded

419
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.039
by an armed mob of close to one hundred people,

420
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:52.480
including both police and civilians. The crowd was out for

421
00:20:52.559 --> 00:21:11.880
Santa's blood. It was a standoff. It didn't take long

422
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:16.799
for the situation to escalate, and gunfire erupted. Ratliffe, Hill

423
00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:19.279
and the others started firing through the bank window, and

424
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:23.160
the mob outside returned fire. It was a fuselade of bullets,

425
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.240
resulting in two hundred plus bullet holes in the bank.

426
00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:30.680
Ratliffe and Davis were both shot in the melee. Ratliff

427
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:32.480
was shot in the leg and the jaw, but his

428
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:34.960
wounds were not life threatening and he could still walk.

429
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:39.400
Davis's wounds were far more serious. Chief of Police Bedford

430
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.759
and his officer, George Carmichael, were also shot during the shootout,

431
00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:46.599
and both would later die from their injuries. Six townspeople

432
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:50.160
were also shot and wounded. Several of the bank employees

433
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.519
and customers escaped from the bank during the commotion. The

434
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.720
bank robbers used the remaining people as human shields to

435
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.839
protect them as they made their way to the car.

436
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:01.799
They took twelve year old Laverne Comer and ten year

437
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:05.200
old Mma Robinson into the car with them as hostages,

438
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.559
and they drove off. They drove to the edge of town,

439
00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:11.480
tossing roofing nails out the window to puncture the tires

440
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.319
of those trying to follow, but they soon realized they

441
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:16.839
were almost out of gas and one of their own

442
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.440
tires had been punctured from the hail of gunfire at

443
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.519
the bank. It's not clear if the bank robbers forgot

444
00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:24.960
to gas up the car before their heist, or if

445
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:28.240
perhaps a bullet pierced the gas tank. In any case,

446
00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:32.039
they had to abandon their getaway car. Davis, the family

447
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:34.079
man who had gone along with the robbery on the

448
00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:37.240
condition that there would be no shooting, was mortally wounded,

449
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.200
so the rest of the gang left him in the

450
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.559
getaway car, where he died. In all the hubbub and

451
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:45.759
with the town's citizens still in hot pursuit, the bank

452
00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.359
robbers accidentally left another very important item behind in the

453
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:50.839
getaway car, the loot.

454
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:55.960
Oh Fourteen year old Woodrow Wilson Harris, better known as Woody,

455
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.640
was driving his family's new Oldsmobile to town. His father

456
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.160
sat beside him in the front seat, his mother and

457
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.119
grandmother in back. The family was out finishing their holiday shopping.

458
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.839
I bet the mother and grandmother and back were both

459
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.960
clutching the seat really tightly. Having a fourteen year old

460
00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:13.960
driving the car, well, if you're.

461
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:18.559
A farm kid, you probably a really good driver. Sitting

462
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.000
at the stoplight, wood he must have been excited when

463
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.000
he saw Santa Claus walking toward the car, but his

464
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:28.119
excitement quickly turned to terror as he saw Santa brandishing

465
00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.400
a gun, as did the two men who trailed behind him.

466
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.200
The three men ordered the Harris family to get out

467
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.880
of their car. The family quickly exited the vehicle and

468
00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:40.839
ran away. While it seemed like the bank robbers had

469
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:43.839
a nice new getaway car, they didn't count on fourteen

470
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.279
year old Woodie being as clever as he was. You

471
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.240
see what He left them the car, but he took

472
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.240
the keys with him, and they didn't realize it until

473
00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.799
the Harris family was long gone. The gangs luck seemed

474
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.400
to be getting worse as the day went on. Helm

475
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.799
and Hill took off on foot into the wilderness. While

476
00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:06.119
the bandits hadn't intended to leave the money in the

477
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.799
getaway car when it was discovered by the citizens who

478
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:11.920
had been pursuing the men, it was a temporary distraction,

479
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.960
allowing the men to slip away. Fortunately, the men decided

480
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.200
at this point to release their two young hostages, who

481
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:22.079
were soon reunited with the parents. Well that's a little

482
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.240
bit of good news. Sheriff John Hart and his deputies

483
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:28.400
in Easterland, ten miles to the east, had been called

484
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:30.880
and given the news of the robbery, They jumped in

485
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.200
their cars and sped to where the bank robbers had

486
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:37.519
abandoned their vehicle. A reporter later wrote, quote Officers and

487
00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.119
citizens poured in from all that section of the state,

488
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:44.039
and such a manhunt and as Western Texas had never

489
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:47.279
seen before, was soon in progress. Many members of the

490
00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:50.559
posse were on horseback or on foot as they beat

491
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.920
their way through the clumps of trees, searched high grass,

492
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.400
in the bottoms of ravines, and peered around boulders and canyons.

493
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.240
Search parties found a few so of the crooks, some

494
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.519
blood stained gloves, a suitcase, and a pile of blood

495
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:08.039
stained rags, some medical supplies that the men had brought

496
00:25:08.079 --> 00:25:11.559
with them, but no sign of the bank robbers. Evening

497
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:14.200
fell and the search was paused until the next morning,

498
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.359
Christmas Eve. Although Marshall Ratliffe had been shot twice, once

499
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:20.559
in the leg and once in the jaw, and Robert

500
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.400
Hill had been shot once in the arm, the three

501
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.759
men managed to elude their pursuers for the next two days.

502
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:30.640
At one am on Monday, the day after Christmas, Ratlift

503
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:34.680
knocked on the door of R. C. Wiley's house in Baird, Texas,

504
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.759
twenty five miles west of Cisco, asserting that their automobile

505
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:40.359
had been in a wreck and they needed to take

506
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:43.319
an injured woman to the hospital. Ratliff asked if the

507
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:46.880
Wileys might loan him a car and driver. Being good

508
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:49.640
country folk, twenty two year old Carl Wiley and his

509
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:53.720
younger brother accompanied Ratliff to the car, but then Helms

510
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:57.000
and Hill stepped out from behind some bee Hives, guns drawn,

511
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:00.000
and ordered Karl and his brother into the car. They

512
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:02.960
younger boy ran off, calling for his grandfather, who was

513
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.720
back in the house. Or Carl got into the car

514
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.599
with the three men and began driving. Carl's grandfather came

515
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:11.720
running out of the house and fired his gun at

516
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.720
the vehicle. Unfortunately, he hit his own grandson in the arm.

517
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:18.720
The good news was the injury was not serious.

518
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:21.519
I get the impression like everybody back then at this

519
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:24.519
part of the country had guns. They were very freely

520
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:25.400
using them too.

521
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:26.799
I mean you had to I guess.

522
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:28.240
I guess that was a very different time.

523
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:31.680
I mean police weren't around as much, and you lived

524
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.400
out in the country and the fugitives hid the rest

525
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.440
of the night in the wilderness with nothing to eat

526
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:39.440
but oranges, which the bank robbers refused to share with

527
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:42.960
their injured young hostage. The next morning, they released Carl

528
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.480
and stole another vehicle. Carl reported to the police that

529
00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.960
the gang was not doing well due to their injuries,

530
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.039
their lack of food, and the icy, wintry weather that

531
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:56.039
had come to Central Texas. The manhunt continued. By this time,

532
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:59.279
the police had used horses, dogs, and even airplanes and

533
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.480
their search for the three men. With the latest information

534
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:05.880
from Karl, authorities assembled a posse of more than one

535
00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.319
hundred men who converged on their latest location near the

536
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:12.480
Goose Neck of the Brazos River, not far from the

537
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:16.880
small town of South Bend, Texas. The posse caught up

538
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:19.240
with Ratliff, Helms, and Hill on the morning of Wednesday,

539
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.519
December twenty eighth, lockading the road as the men approached

540
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:25.839
in their latest stolen car. The three men ran from

541
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:28.880
the vehicle toward the woods, and a posse opened fire.

542
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:32.160
Ratliff was grazed in the leg with a bullet. It

543
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:34.880
was a minor wound, but Ratliff fainted. The result of

544
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.960
his earlier wounds becoming infected, combined with the lack of

545
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.640
food and sleep over the last several days, Ratliff had

546
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:44.799
a total of six gunshot wounds sustained since the day

547
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:48.400
of the robbery. Ratliffe was captured while Helms and Hill

548
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:51.680
escaped into the brush. His jaw was locked shut from

549
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.279
the bullet wound he had received in the days earlier.

550
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:57.279
During the robbery, he could only answer yes or no

551
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:01.960
questions by nodding or shaking his head. Tub Wilson, assistant

552
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.680
chief of police from Cisco, asked him, do you know me?

553
00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:07.920
Ratliff nodded. Do you know that you are going to

554
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.640
die again? Ratliff nodded. Do you care whether you live

555
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.960
or die? Ratleish shook his head indicating no. Helms and

556
00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:18.759
Hill managed to elude the posse for two more days,

557
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:22.240
but they were finally captured on Friday morning, December thirtieth.

558
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.279
The two men were so weak from their wounds, their hunger,

559
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.279
and their lack of sleep that they just couldn't run anymore.

560
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.480
Asked why they ran, Hill answered quote, I figured we

561
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.640
were just going to be killed anyhow, on account of

562
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:37.400
the bank reward. I figured it was just as well

563
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.640
to get killed running as with our hands up. Helms

564
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:44.279
was delirious and hardly able to stand. His temperature taken

565
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.319
once he was in custody was one O two point five.

566
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:50.759
Hill said of his partner, quote, he got us caught.

567
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:53.119
He's been out of his head for nearly two days.

568
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.480
Hill had a bullet wound on his left elbow and

569
00:28:56.599 --> 00:28:59.400
had been grazed by other bullets on his head and back,

570
00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:03.079
but overall he was in decent shape. Helms had bullet

571
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:06.079
wounds on his hip, back, shoulder, and arm. Hill said

572
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.759
the pair hadn't had a bite to eat in four days.

573
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:11.599
All of the men were taken to the Eastland County

574
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.240
Jail to await trial. Aside from the bank robbers themselves,

575
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:19.000
six people had been killed and eight injured during the

576
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:22.680
events of the past few days. We'll be back after

577
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:23.160
a break.

578
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:34.559
Twas the night before Christmas in Texas, you know, way

579
00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:38.319
out on the prairie without really small.

580
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:42.000
Robert Hill pleaded guilty to armed robbery and was sentenced

581
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.359
to ninety nine years in prison. Hill was not content

582
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:49.359
to stay in prison, however. In September nineteen twenty eight, Hill,

583
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:52.680
along with five other inmates, escaped from a convict farm

584
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.960
while working as part of a wood cutting gang Bloodhounds

585
00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.200
sign vict farm. Yeah. I think they put convicts to

586
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:01.000
work a lot more then than they do now. I

587
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:03.440
think they still do it, but probably it's a good idea. Really,

588
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:04.680
Why do you think that is?

589
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:07.240
I just think it's good to keep people busy and

590
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:09.319
then they can have pride in their work. I hope

591
00:30:09.319 --> 00:30:10.680
they were treated decently.

592
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:12.559
Yeah, hopefully they're paid at least.

593
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:13.920
Well, that's what I was going to say, like to

594
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:15.960
give people a little bit, you know, it doesn't have

595
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.319
to be a ton of money, but a little bit,

596
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:20.039
like a dollar an hour or something, and then when

597
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:22.039
they get out, they have a little money saved and

598
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:24.880
they have some work experience. And I really do think

599
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.440
it's probably good to keep our prisoners out good.

600
00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:30.440
It's good for all of us to stay busy. I know,

601
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:32.079
if I have too much time on my hands, I

602
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:33.799
go a little a little crazy myself.

603
00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:35.960
You never have too much time on your hand, I know, because.

604
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:39.799
I always keep myself busy. In any case, Bloodhounds tracked

605
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:43.319
down the escapees within a few hours. Seven months later,

606
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:47.200
though in April nineteen twenty nine, he'll escaped again. This time,

607
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.440
he and four other inmates cut their way through a

608
00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:52.799
fence surrounding the tuberculosis ward of the prison to make

609
00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:57.319
their escape. Again, they were quickly captured and returned. Hill

610
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.799
made one more attempt in nineteen thirty wow. This time

611
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:03.400
he was on the lamb for eighteen months, but was

612
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.319
eventually captured in El Paso while trying to cross the

613
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.400
border to Mexico. After his third attempt, Hill decided to

614
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:14.279
make peace with his life behind bars. In nineteen forty five,

615
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.119
Governor Coke Stevenson granted Hill a pardon after he had

616
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.839
served fifteen years. It's unclear exactly why he was granted

617
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:24.039
a pardon, but it's possible that it was due to

618
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:27.599
a labor shortage with so many men overseas fighting in

619
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:30.519
World War Two. Does seem surprising, though, that he tried

620
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:33.319
to escape three times and they pardoned him eventually.

621
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:34.160
Yeah, definitely.

622
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:35.880
It doesn't seem like you would be rewarded for that.

623
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:38.960
Whatever the reason, though, Hill made the most of his

624
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:42.759
newfound freedom. He married, became a stepfather, worked for a

625
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:46.079
construction firm, bought a home, and joined a church. By

626
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:48.400
all accounts, he was a model citizen for the next

627
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.400
twenty years until his death in nineteen sixty six. His

628
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:55.880
partners in crime, though, were not so lucky. Although no

629
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:58.359
one could testify to having seen him fire a gun

630
00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:01.400
in the bank, Henry helm was accused of shooting the

631
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:05.039
Cisco police chief and his fellow officer, both of whom died.

632
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.680
He tried to plead insanity, but that didn't work. He

633
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:11.640
was found guilty and sentenced to death. On the evening

634
00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:14.880
of September fifth, nineteen twenty nine, guards held him down

635
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:17.720
and shaved his head, then dragged him down the hallway,

636
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.880
past the cell where Marshall Ratliffe sat, and into the

637
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:24.319
room where the electric chair waited. The switch was thrown

638
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:27.119
at twelve ten am the next morning, and Henry Helms

639
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.319
was the second of the bank robbers to die. Marshall Ratliffe,

640
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:33.799
who had dressed as Santa Claus and was the ringleader

641
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:36.799
of the heist, was convicted of armed robbery and sentenced

642
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:40.240
to ninety nine years in prison. This was followed by

643
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:42.559
a second trial for his part in the deaths of

644
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.839
the two lawmen. For this offense, he was found guilty

645
00:32:46.119 --> 00:32:49.039
and sentenced to death On the day that Helms was

646
00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:54.359
executed in September nineteen twenty nine, Ratliff began acting insane.

647
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:57.440
His mother filed an appeal asking for a lunacy hearing.

648
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.720
A judge ordered that Ratliff be sent to the Eastland

649
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.119
County Jail while he waited to see whether he would

650
00:33:03.160 --> 00:33:06.960
be granted the lunacy hearing. His jailers were convinced that

651
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:10.039
he had truly lost his mind. They had to feed him,

652
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.759
bathe him, and help him use the toilet. However, one night,

653
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.240
after feeding him, the jailers accidentally left his cell unlocked.

654
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.000
Seizing the opportunity, Ratliffe, who was anything but insane, sprung

655
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.200
into action. Barged out of his cell, grabbed a pistol

656
00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:27.720
from a nearby desk, and shot one of his jailers

657
00:33:27.799 --> 00:33:30.960
multiple times. The man ended up dying the next day.

658
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:34.920
The other jailer managed to subdue Ratliffe after a violent

659
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.240
struggle and returned him to his cell. Townspeople heard about

660
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:42.359
the death of the jailer, and, already infuriated at the

661
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:46.200
lengthy delay for justice, they began gathering outside the jail

662
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.279
the next morning. By evening there was a crowd of

663
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:53.599
nearly a thousand people. Many in the crowd began demanding

664
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:56.400
that the surviving jailer bring Ratliffe out and let them

665
00:33:56.440 --> 00:34:01.160
dispense mob justice. The jailer refused, but eventually several men

666
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.759
overpowered him, grabbed his keys, and dragged Ratliffe outside, stripping

667
00:34:05.799 --> 00:34:08.599
him of his clothing on the way. They tied his

668
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.239
hands and feet and strung him up from a telephone

669
00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:15.199
cable with a length of stout grass rope. The rope broke, however,

670
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:18.599
and Ratliff fell to the ground. Someone in the mob

671
00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:22.760
found some stronger rope, and their second attempt succeeded. Marshall

672
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.719
Ratliffe was pronounced dead at nine to fifty five pm

673
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.960
on November nineteenth, nineteen twenty nine. His body was taken

674
00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:32.239
to a local furniture store, where it was left on

675
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.840
display until the next day, when a judge ordered Ratleff's

676
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.519
corpse to be hidden from view. I have no idea

677
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:41.360
why his body was taken to a local furniture store.

678
00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:43.599
Maybe just to prop them up in the window so

679
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:45.039
the townspeople could see it.

680
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.920
I guess yeah. There were mixed feelings about the angry

681
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:52.639
mob justice dispensed to Marshall Ratliffe. The editor of The

682
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.480
Sweetwater Reporter newspaper wrote, quote, from the standpoint of stark justice,

683
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:01.519
the lynching of Marshall Ratliffe accomplished good from the standpoint

684
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.119
of law. It has blotted Texas with another crime as

685
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:08.239
important of as either of these. However, it stands as

686
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:15.000
a terrific indictment of today's judicial system and the legal profession. Delay, delay, delay, technicality,

687
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:18.719
on technicality. The public is steadily becoming more and more

688
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:21.880
disgusted with the processes of our courts, and this lynching

689
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.360
would never have had to take place were it not

690
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:28.320
for the procrastination of our judicial proceedings. Unless the better

691
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.599
element in the legal profession succeeds soon in a revision

692
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:34.480
of practices, the public may be driven to do it

693
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:38.280
for them. I wonder how they would feel about today's

694
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:43.039
justice system. A grand jury was convened to investigate the lynching,

695
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:45.840
but no charges were ever brought against any members of

696
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.360
the mob. A couple days after Ratleff's death, his mother

697
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:52.480
was given possession of his body. She held a funeral

698
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:56.400
at a local chapel, attended by family and curiosity seekers.

699
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.960
As people were gathering at the chapel, a Christmas parade

700
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:03.880
coincidentally passed by promoting a holiday sale for a local

701
00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:07.920
department store, leading the parade none other than Santa Claus.

702
00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:11.559
The story of the Santa Claus bank robbery is now

703
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:15.639
part of local folklore in Cisco, Texas. The first National

704
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:18.719
Bank still stands, although it's in a different building. There's

705
00:36:18.760 --> 00:36:21.480
a painting of the robbery and a collection of newspaper

706
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:25.639
clippings and pictures. In nineteen sixty seven, the Texas Historical

707
00:36:25.639 --> 00:36:29.360
Commission erected a memorial on the site to commemorate the event.

708
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:33.840
And that is the story of the Santa Claus Bank robbery.

709
00:36:33.880 --> 00:36:37.480
Oh interesting, the sad story. I know. I did try

710
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:39.280
to look for a story that did not have any

711
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:43.000
death or killing in it, but I just there just

712
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:43.639
wasn't anything.

713
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:45.840
I'm going they call it crime for a reason, right, Yeah,

714
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.159
I guess. So. I did enjoy your use of sound effects.

715
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:51.800
Oh good? Should we do that for every case?

716
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:56.880
I think it's because it's an old timey case. It

717
00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:00.320
kind of fit in. That's like the gunfire. And I'm

718
00:37:00.320 --> 00:37:03.000
not sure that was probably maybe the best you know, right,

719
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:05.440
but yeah, no, it was, it was. It was good. Cool.

720
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:08.960
Well, a few days ago you posted a query on

721
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:12.800
our social media, asking people if they had questions for us.

722
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:14.880
You've wanted to do this for a while, and I

723
00:37:14.920 --> 00:37:17.880
was like, nope, I don't want to answer any personal questions.

724
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:19.360
I didn't know if we'd get any questions, but it

725
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:21.360
sounds like we're really I have not seen them, but.

726
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.599
Yes, as usual, our listeners are the loveliest people, and

727
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:27.679
we got a lot of, you know, just nice questions.

728
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:31.320
So thank you. If you submitted a question, If you

729
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:34.119
have a question you're dying to know, then you can

730
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:36.400
send it to me and maybe we'll do this again.

731
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.079
We'll see if you guys enjoyed this or not. Are

732
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:40.840
you ready for some hard hitting questions?

733
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:42.920
I don't know if I am, but let's do it. Well.

734
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.000
Some of them are softballs, like what are your plans

735
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:45.760
for the holidays?

736
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:48.440
Okay, well, oh you're asking.

737
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:50.039
Okay.

738
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:52.480
My plans for the holiday is to do as little

739
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:57.519
as possible. Yeah, and sleep in and wear my pajamas.

740
00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:59.159
Mostly sleep in though that's the thing.

741
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:01.679
I can't sleep been anywhere, but I will try. I'm

742
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:02.639
going to try to sleep in.

743
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:05.760
Okay. We had talked about going away because no one

744
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:07.840
wanted anything for Christmas, and we're like, well, we could

745
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:10.760
take a trip for a Christmas present, but everyone kind

746
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:14.079
of decided that we'd rather stay home and watch movies

747
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:16.400
and play games and play with our new Christmas things.

748
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:19.119
And yeah, that week is just very relaxing.

749
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.639
I really enjoy that downtime. It's it's important to recharge.

750
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:28.400
What is your favorite Hallmark Christmas movie?

751
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:32.239
Gosh, there's so many. Yeah, there's so many good ones

752
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:35.400
that it's really hard to choose. I don't know what's

753
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:36.159
your favorite?

754
00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:39.639
Well, I have two that I really love. One is

755
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:43.119
The Nine Lives of Christmas. It's just the sweetest movie.

756
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:46.280
And the other one is The Most Wonderful Time of

757
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.920
the Year. It's an older one. Henry Winkler's in it,

758
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.400
and it's just a really, really funny one.

759
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.360
Okay, I would say The Kansas City Chiefs one that

760
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:56.159
came out this year.

761
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:58.639
But I what's your favorite Christmas movie?

762
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:02.039
Do You a Wonderful Life? You know what? That is

763
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:04.519
definitely my favorite. We watch it almost every year. I

764
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.199
think we didn't last year, but it's uh, yeah, I

765
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.840
just love that movie. It makes me feel all warm

766
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:10.599
and fuzzy.

767
00:39:11.079 --> 00:39:11.719
Mine is Elf.

768
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:13.159
Yeah, I love Elf. Two.

769
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:15.880
So, speaking of Hallmark movies, would you be a good

770
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:19.159
Hallmark guy or a bad Hallmark guy.

771
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:21.480
I think you would be better equipped answer that question

772
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:22.800
than me. I don't know, what do you think.

773
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:24.159
Kind of think you'd be the bad guy.

774
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:26.000
I would enjoy being the bad guy more.

775
00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:27.880
Because you don't well they're not really usually just in

776
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.119
the first five minutes when they break up and then

777
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:32.159
you know. But you don't wear a lot of flannel

778
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:35.480
and you don't wield an axe very often. So I

779
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.159
think you'd you'd be the city guy who even though

780
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:40.320
you don't live in the city, but you're the career guys.

781
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:43.280
Okay, yeah, Fortunately, I don't think you would forgot the

782
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:46.639
meaning of Christmas and yeah, yeah, that's.

783
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:50.079
That's probably who you'd play. Our good friend Kylie from

784
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:54.199
Primetime Crime asks, I need rich in Tina's origin story.

785
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.000
And we have told this, it's kind of it's a

786
00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:58.719
little lanky, but do you want to take a stab

787
00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:01.599
at it? We talked about this on a Patreon episode

788
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.559
honoring your friend. Our friend Kevin.

789
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:06.360
Right, who passed away earlier this year.

790
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.199
Yeah, and it's still hard to talk about, but yeah,

791
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:14.199
he and his wife were pivotal in our meeting.

792
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:16.880
We met at their wedding. So Kevin was a friend

793
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:18.880
of mine that I grew up with, had known since

794
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.880
sixth grade.

795
00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:21.639
So he was my childhood best friend.

796
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:24.119
Yeah, so we met at a wedding. It took us

797
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:26.639
a while to get together, not until the second wedding.

798
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:30.519
The first wedding story in Illinois, and we didn't get

799
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.039
together at that wedding. We met, but we you.

800
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:34.880
Know, I lived in Illinois and you lived in Michigan.

801
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:36.719
So we did long distance.

802
00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:38.639
For yes, a while, and then there was a second

803
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:41.079
reception a few weeks later in Michigan. You came to

804
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:43.519
that and that was where we connected. And then we

805
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:45.599
had a long distance relationship for a while, and then

806
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:47.320
eventually you moved out here.

807
00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:50.079
We were both kind of seeing other people when we met.

808
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:53.639
I had just broken up with someone also named Well.

809
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:55.320
It was funny because I remember when we met, I

810
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:58.280
was just like, well, I mean because my friend had

811
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:03.039
told me because I had a boyfriend that we were

812
00:41:03.079 --> 00:41:07.360
like broken up, but we were still kind of, you know, entangled,

813
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:10.400
and so she was like, you need to get rid

814
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:12.199
of that guy, and let's look at the guest list

815
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:13.920
and see who you can hook up with. And she

816
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:17.360
was like, well, rich just broke up with Tina and

817
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.360
I just don't see you guys together, and here we

818
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:24.639
are proving them. Yeah. So many years later, another question

819
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:28.559
from one of our favorite podcasts, Severed, do you like

820
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:29.519
Gobba gooul.

821
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:31.440
I?

822
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:35.920
So our friends from Severed are from New Jersey and

823
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:40.239
all things love, all things soprano and and Jersey. To

824
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:43.840
be honest, I thought gobbagle was like any Italian cured meat.

825
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.719
But it's it's it's not right, so I didn't didn't

826
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:50.639
really know, but yeah, yeah, it's good stuff.

827
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.559
Yeah I love. I love pretty much all Italian cured meats.

828
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:56.800
I do too, and cured meat is just it's not

829
00:41:56.840 --> 00:41:58.800
a health food. We really shouldn't be eating it, but

830
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:01.639
it is delicious. What is your death row meal?

831
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:07.639
My death row meal is probably fried chicken, mashed potatoes

832
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.360
and gravy and peasco.

833
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:12.119
Says, all have peace for my glass and meal.

834
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:16.119
Like these are so good frozen not canned.

835
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:20.920
Oy, gotcha. I would just choose like snacks, Ye choose

836
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.159
like chips and dip and cheese and crackers, And I

837
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:26.679
really would. It's like like a chocolate chip cookie. Maybe

838
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:28.800
you know, it would just be it would? I truly

839
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.079
do love snack foods. I wouldn't ask for any peas

840
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.679
or vegetables. Maybe some fruit because I really do love fruit.

841
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.480
Maybe some really like a perfect and I'm sure like

842
00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:42.599
the prison would make sure. Oh it's a perfectly ripe strawberry.

843
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:46.360
You don't get those very often, that's true. Will you

844
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:49.480
ever post a picture? We get this A lot? Yeah,

845
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:50.679
a lot, A lot.

846
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:52.280
I'm going to let you answer that one.

847
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:54.559
Well, we would, but rich is hideous if I'm gonna

848
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:59.880
be honest with you, So we just don't. Glad you

849
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:03.159
kunda laugh at that. I think we're saving it for

850
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:06.679
only fans. Make a lot.

851
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:08.840
You are on fire, You're hilarious.

852
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:12.000
I mean we might someday, I don't know. We haven't.

853
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:14.800
We haven't for a lot of reasons, and one of

854
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:17.280
them is just our safety and our privacy. I know

855
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:20.360
most podcasters post pictures, and good for them, but for us,

856
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:23.760
I just I don't know. I feel safer people not

857
00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:27.400
knowing our faces. I'm in ritually isn'tos. I don't tell

858
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.239
him I said it, but he's really not idious. He's

859
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:33.679
actually very handsome, and I'm probably okay looking to you

860
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:38.760
are very beautiful. We're pretty private people, and our kids,

861
00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:42.480
who have been very, very supportive, have also asked us

862
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:44.119
not to talk about them on the podcast, so we

863
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:47.320
try to as little as possible. So we love you guys,

864
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:51.320
but for now, I think we feel just more comfortable

865
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:56.079
not posting pictures or any super personal information, although I

866
00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:59.639
should say if an opportunity comes our way to be

867
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:03.000
feature you're done a magazine article, or to be speak

868
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:05.719
at an event or exactly, or be featured on twenty twenty,

869
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:09.639
we have had a couple of you don't think that

870
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:11.000
was happening, Well, I don't know.

871
00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:13.239
I'm guessing twenty twenty is second.

872
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:15.400
We've had a couple of producers reach out to us.

873
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:18.239
Nothing has come to fruition, so it's it's possible we

874
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:18.559
would have.

875
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:20.719
Possibly you will see us on your television some.

876
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:22.679
Yeah, and we would let you know. And you know,

877
00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:25.840
so anyway, what's your first kiss story?

878
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:31.400
We'll let you know when it happens, my personal first

879
00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:32.440
kiss story or our.

880
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:35.559
First Okay, oh I wasn't the first. I was the

881
00:44:35.639 --> 00:44:38.639
first Gale Gale to cut your eyes one or two

882
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:39.199
before you.

883
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:42.480
But well, our first kiss story we disagree on. So

884
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.159
we talked. Yeah, we talked about this before. I am

885
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:49.159
certain our first kiss happened when we were dancing at

886
00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:51.800
the second reception. You say that it happened when you

887
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:54.519
were getting in the car to leave. Yeah, and I'm

888
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:56.679
pretty sure I'm right, But you are probably pretty sure

889
00:44:56.719 --> 00:44:59.320
you're right also, So we're going to have to disagree,

890
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:00.559
agree to disagree.

891
00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:04.079
Yeah, I vehemently disagree with you because I would not

892
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.079
have kissed you on that because it was like a

893
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:09.199
reception that was like on a Sunday afternoon. It was

894
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:10.440
like broad daylight.

895
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:13.519
I would not sad, but you don't remember our first chiding.

896
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.000
It's sad that you don't remember that you were kissing

897
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:16.960
some other lady.

898
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:19.559
I remember kissing you at the car also, but I

899
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:21.440
just remember the earlier kiss as well.

900
00:45:21.559 --> 00:45:26.400
Whatever. This is gonna be a tough one to answer.

901
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:28.079
But what is your favorite cheese?

902
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:32.320
It really depends on the application of the cheese.

903
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:32.920
Very true.

904
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:35.239
I can't just say I have a favorite cheese on

905
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:38.719
its own, like on a cheeseburger. I know it's a

906
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:41.800
controversial agree, but American cheese. You know, we both agree

907
00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:44.800
on now the best cheese on a cheeseburger. But in general,

908
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:47.599
I would probably say, like a Vermont sharp cheddar.

909
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:49.360
Yeah you really love a sharp cheddar?

910
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:49.840
Yeah? I do.

911
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.119
I love it. I think lately I've been into smoked guda.

912
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:56.599
Guda is really good. It is also good melted on

913
00:45:56.679 --> 00:45:57.039
a burger.

914
00:45:57.079 --> 00:45:59.400
It's very good on a burger. I have to go

915
00:45:59.519 --> 00:45:59.760
get some.

916
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:05.440
There's someone of the refrigerator. Actually, if Dateline only wanted

917
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.760
to hire one of you, would you take that opportunity?

918
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:12.599
Or are you a package deal? Yeah?

919
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:13.199
I take it.

920
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:17.360
I think we're I think we're a package.

921
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:20.599
I think you're a package deal too. Gosh, I don't

922
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.320
know who this this question came from, but how lucky

923
00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:26.639
are you to be married to a smart, handsome guy

924
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:27.639
like rich?

925
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:30.360
Who asked that?

926
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.320
And I also got a question that says, how do

927
00:46:34.400 --> 00:46:38.679
you tolerate being married to such a narcissistic husband?

928
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:39.760
Like, I'm just kidding.

929
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:43.320
That question I believe came from you, And I mean,

930
00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.719
it's hard because the ladies are They're all over them

931
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:50.159
all the time. I have to fight them off all

932
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:54.159
the time. What is your favorite true crime podcast? Mine

933
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:58.480
is about Time for True Crime. They might have asked

934
00:46:58.480 --> 00:46:58.920
that question.

935
00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:01.840
That's nice. Well, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I

936
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:04.800
really don't listen to any true crime podcasts anymore. I

937
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:06.360
used to listen to some occasionally.

938
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:09.480
Sometimes I would like, make you listen. I'd be like, oh,

939
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:10.199
you got to listen to this.

940
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:10.440
Well.

941
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:12.800
I love like some of the long form ones, like Yeah,

942
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:14.760
I think it was s Town was the first one.

943
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:17.679
I really such an amazing love that. But honestly, I

944
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:19.360
just don't have time anymore. I wish I did.

945
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:23.079
Some of the people that I really adore are True

946
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:27.159
Crime B and B Highi from Primetime Crime, About Time

947
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:30.280
for True Crime, True Crime University, and I know I'm

948
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:33.039
forgetting some but they're just really great people and they're

949
00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:35.800
producing great podcasts, so please listen to them if you

950
00:47:35.880 --> 00:47:39.159
haven't already. I know I'm forgetting some people too, but

951
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:42.280
Case File is really great. I don't listen to it

952
00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:45.239
very often. I like to go to sleep to Dateline

953
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.000
and Keith. If I can't get to sleep, he can

954
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:55.199
just lull me within seconds. And Southern Tried Southern Fried

955
00:47:55.280 --> 00:47:58.159
True Crime is also really good. She has like just

956
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:02.880
this syrupy Southern voice and it's really great. The ladies

957
00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:06.199
at en Meshed are really great, and Melissa and daniel

958
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:09.079
Lette Till Death to us part. They're all great people

959
00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:12.599
with great podcasts. What were your first impressions of each

960
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:14.039
other upon meeting for the first time.

961
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:19.159
Well, I thought you were really cute. We met in church.

962
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.719
We didn't mention that, but we were in the rear. Yeah,

963
00:48:22.920 --> 00:48:24.480
you were in front of me, and I just thought

964
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:26.079
you were really, really cute.

965
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:28.039
I think I've said this before, but your voice. I

966
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:29.840
was like, oh, he has the nicestvoice. And you were

967
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:32.960
very handsome too, And I remember exactly what you were wearing,

968
00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:35.159
and I don't want to embarrass you, but I think

969
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:39.840
that was a really good outfit. And knowing you, I

970
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:42.199
was like, that was I don't know how you put

971
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.440
that outfit together, but you looked really nice and stylish,

972
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:51.199
and that must have been somewhat of an anomaly, but yeah,

973
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:54.239
that was. That was fun. I think we knew you know, actually,

974
00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:57.519
I thought because you were a little older and I

975
00:48:57.719 --> 00:48:59.960
was a little bit of a mess and you know,

976
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.280
still figuring things out, and you.

977
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:05.320
Just seem really perky and bubbly and like you just

978
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:08.199
seem happy and fun and I got I got that

979
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:09.159
vibe right away from you.

980
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:13.360
Oh that's so nice. You seemed a little, very, very,

981
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:16.280
a little serious actually, like I think you were nervous.

982
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:19.599
In retrospect, you're probably really nervous, like walking to church,

983
00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:22.800
I'm going to talk to this redheaded girl, and yeah,

984
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.400
I was, Yeah, because I think you and I think

985
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:27.719
there was a lot of people there that like knew

986
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:30.719
our friends, and we were both kind of like outliers.

987
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:32.280
I think a lot of their college friends were there,

988
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:34.119
and we were more like their high school friends. So

989
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:35.239
I think maybe that's why you.

990
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:37.360
And I Yeah, I didn't really know anyone else. There

991
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:39.800
are very few people there, so yeah, I think we

992
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:41.480
gravitated toward each other a little bit.

993
00:49:41.880 --> 00:49:44.800
And then another funny true story, like at the wedding,

994
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:48.800
the first wedding, we hooked up with the different people, right, yeah,

995
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:52.360
which is a little inmarrassing retrospect.

996
00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:53.320
You know it happens.

997
00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.679
How did you end up starting a podcast? This is

998
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.559
from our good friend Yarna.

999
00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:02.079
Oh well, I think your best to answer that. I mean,

1000
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:03.000
it was really your idea.

1001
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:04.480
I don't know if it was. I thought it was

1002
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.679
just kind of a mutual, like, hey, why don't we

1003
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:09.800
just do this? And your son was leaving for college

1004
00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:14.519
and we were kind of becoming empty nesters, and i'd

1005
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:17.000
you know, been a stay at home mom and volunteer

1006
00:50:17.719 --> 00:50:20.159
at the schools for years and years, and I was

1007
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:21.800
just like, well, I need to do something. I'm not

1008
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:24.159
sure what I need to do, and we're just like, hey,

1009
00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:26.679
let's try this. Yeah, we really didn't think what would

1010
00:50:26.800 --> 00:50:28.039
we would be doing it for long?

1011
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:30.559
Yeah, I think it was. It was something. I mean

1012
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:33.039
I remember you mentioning it a few times, and it

1013
00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:35.159
was semi serious, like you would mention it, but we

1014
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:36.800
kind of would joke about it a little bit, and

1015
00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:39.920
eventually I think we just agreed, let's just give it

1016
00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:41.239
a try and see what happens.

1017
00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:43.719
Why did we end up doing true crime and not

1018
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:45.519
something else, Well.

1019
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.400
I don't know. I mean, I think we've always enjoyed

1020
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:50.440
We've never been like true crime obsessed, I would say,

1021
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:54.000
but we've always enjoyed watching like documentaries and different shows.

1022
00:50:54.079 --> 00:50:56.440
And yeah, I think we watched Twisty and Dateline all.

1023
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:58.840
That, you know, not all the time, but yeah, regularly,

1024
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:00.679
and we would always have good discusssions about it. So

1025
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:02.840
I think, I don't know. That's probably if.

1026
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:05.400
You could make a podcast about something other than true crime,

1027
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:07.760
what would it be. I think everyone knows what your answer.

1028
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:09.679
Is I don't know what my answer is.

1029
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:12.400
Really, Really, I would think you would either do a

1030
00:51:12.519 --> 00:51:15.440
music podcast or a sports podcast.

1031
00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:19.519
Yes, probably classic rock. That would probably be my first choice.

1032
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:21.400
I love sports, but I'm not I don't feel like

1033
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:24.280
I'm a sports expert by any What about.

1034
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:27.039
You, U Bravo Real Housewife?

1035
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.480
Yeah, I thought you would say baking, but I mean I.

1036
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:32.199
Like to bake, but I don't want that. I really

1037
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:36.760
don't want that to be my identity. I mean, I

1038
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.719
just I really love the Bravo network. I love I

1039
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:42.480
don't watch all the shows and actually have really cut

1040
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:43.400
back quite a bit.

1041
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:46.639
But yeah, I think I think you and our daughter

1042
00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:49.239
could start a good podcast because when you when the

1043
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.400
two of you get to talking about you but you're

1044
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:53.760
really I could tell you're really into it.

1045
00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:56.400
Yeah. How much would could a would chuck chuck if

1046
00:51:56.440 --> 00:51:59.719
a wood chuck could chuck? Would well, Danny a woodchuck

1047
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:02.079
chuck as much wood as woodchuck could chuck if a

1048
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:03.440
woodchuck could chuck wood?

1049
00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:07.559
Wow? Who asked that question?

1050
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:11.000
Danny? And Danny is like she has my heart because

1051
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:13.480
she is the first listener that ever reached out and

1052
00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:17.639
sent us a very nice message so gez Og. Yeah,

1053
00:52:18.360 --> 00:52:21.480
love you, Danny. So our friend chat GPT said. A

1054
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:25.480
wildlife expert once estimated that if a woodchuck could chuck wood,

1055
00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:29.320
and assuming it chucked wood as energetically as it digs dirt,

1056
00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:33.119
it might chuck about seven hundred pounds of wood. Of course,

1057
00:52:33.239 --> 00:52:36.880
this is all just for fun. Woodchucks or groundhogs actually

1058
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:41.280
don't chuck wood at all. What are you looking forward

1059
00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:45.000
to in twenty twenty five in the true crime sense.

1060
00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:48.719
Well, there are a few things on cases that we've

1061
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:51.400
covered that I'm waiting for. One is, if you remember,

1062
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:54.320
we covered the piked In massacre, which was in Ohio,

1063
00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:56.840
and there's one trial that is still to take place.

1064
00:52:56.920 --> 00:52:59.800
I think I kimmerad the guy's names, the father, George,

1065
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:02.559
I think, and I believe his trial is supposed to

1066
00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:04.840
happen in early twenty twenty five, and that'll probably be

1067
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:07.920
a long one, I would think. So. Yeah, the Karen

1068
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:09.719
Reid thing I'm very interested in.

1069
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:12.559
It's supposed to start in January. I'd probably cover that

1070
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:13.960
just a little.

1071
00:53:13.719 --> 00:53:14.280
Bit, yeap.

1072
00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:16.239
And then the only other thing I was gonna mention

1073
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:20.000
is we covered the case of Emily Noble, and I

1074
00:53:20.199 --> 00:53:23.159
interviewed Matthew Moore a couple months ago we posted that

1075
00:53:23.239 --> 00:53:25.800
as a bonus episode, and he said something kind of

1076
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:30.239
intriguing about a true crime show on A and E

1077
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:31.800
or am is it eight? I think it was A

1078
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:35.400
and E? Okay, that is coming out later this year

1079
00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.519
or later in twenty twenty five, and I'm very curious

1080
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:39.440
about what that is going to be all about.

1081
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:43.199
Well, the Brian Coberger case, Yeah, that's I believe that's

1082
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:46.559
supposed to happen in twenty twenty five and Corey Richins,

1083
00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:50.480
which since we published that episode, there have been a

1084
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:54.239
few updates, and so I am looking forward to watching

1085
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:57.199
both of those. Yeah, what is the case that you're

1086
00:53:57.280 --> 00:53:59.920
most proud of that you covered or we've covered.

1087
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:03.320
That's honestly a really tough question for me, because I really,

1088
00:54:03.880 --> 00:54:06.519
I mean, I love doing this, I love doing the research,

1089
00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:09.840
I love telling the stories, and so almost every case

1090
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:13.559
that that I've researched myself, I feel really like just

1091
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:15.880
good about yeing it. So it's hard for.

1092
00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:18.639
Me to say it's interesting because I feel similarly, I

1093
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:21.760
feel more is like there's only a couple that I

1094
00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:24.320
feel like I didn't do as good of a job

1095
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:27.440
either that I kind of ran out of time because

1096
00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:30.400
you know, because of our schedule, sometimes you have to

1097
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:32.639
push it out a little faster than what we might

1098
00:54:32.679 --> 00:54:36.400
want to. But yeah, I'm pretty proud of every case

1099
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:36.880
we've done.

1100
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:39.360
Same when people if someone asks me, oh, if I

1101
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:42.000
just could listen to one episode, which one would I

1102
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.760
listened to. The one that I recommend to them is

1103
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:49.039
the story about Carrie Farvar, Liz Gallier, and Dave Krupa.

1104
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:51.239
Not because I'm the most proud of it, but it's

1105
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:54.079
to me, it was one of the craziest stories that

1106
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:54.880
we've ever told.

1107
00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:56.840
I thought the one that you told, the Marie Hilly

1108
00:54:56.880 --> 00:54:59.480
story was crazy. I mean, you did a really good

1109
00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:03.280
job with that case because it was so complicated. So yeah,

1110
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:04.760
I think you should I mean you should be I know,

1111
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:06.079
you work really hard and you should be proud of

1112
00:55:06.119 --> 00:55:08.079
all of them. So you didn't pick a case that

1113
00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:10.000
I worked on. You picked a case and you worked

1114
00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:13.719
on So my work is secondary to you. I'm just kidding.

1115
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:18.639
I know what, when we personally like research, it's just

1116
00:55:18.760 --> 00:55:19.239
like you're.

1117
00:55:19.159 --> 00:55:22.039
Just more you immerse yourself the weeks into a case,

1118
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:24.639
and I have like a really bad memory to be honest.

1119
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:27.559
So sometimes like I forget the cases unless I've spent

1120
00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:30.679
two three weeks like focused intently on it.

1121
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:33.840
We got comments a lot on Spotify or Instagram or wherever,

1122
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:36.599
people commenting on older cases, and I'm like, I have

1123
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:39.440
no I'm sorry, I have no recollection that this. Yeah,

1124
00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:42.280
it is hard. I also have a bad memory. I

1125
00:55:42.320 --> 00:55:44.440
think this year one of my favorite cases was the

1126
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:46.599
Phil Hartman case, just because we played so many of

1127
00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:49.480
the clips and that was just it felt like a

1128
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:50.400
special episode and.

1129
00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:53.239
I felt like he seemed like someone that you knew,

1130
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:55.320
just because you've seen him in so many things.

1131
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:57.639
Do you guys swear in real life?

1132
00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:01.360
It is a funny question because there's a.

1133
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:04.119
Reason why we we did in the beginning, and there's

1134
00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:06.559
a reason why we opted to try to as little

1135
00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:08.920
as possible unless we are reading a quote. Do you

1136
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:10.199
want to talk about it for a second.

1137
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:12.599
Well, it's funny because I don't think we do swear

1138
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:15.039
a lot in real life. But I have nothing against swearing.

1139
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:15.679
I kind of do.

1140
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:18.480
I mean, not a lot of much, but you do occasionally,

1141
00:56:18.559 --> 00:56:20.719
so do I. But anyway, we did, like early on

1142
00:56:20.800 --> 00:56:22.880
in the podcast, we probably did swear a little more

1143
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:26.039
often and then we did a case once about a

1144
00:56:26.119 --> 00:56:30.079
young woman who was killed, and her mother actually sent

1145
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:32.960
us an email and it was the nicest email, because

1146
00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:35.760
you know, I think we're always a little bit nervous

1147
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:38.440
about like families listening and are we doing them justice?

1148
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:41.360
Are we saying the right things? And she emailed us

1149
00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:43.760
and told us that she appreciated the way that we

1150
00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:46.599
covered her daughter's story. But she also mentioned in her

1151
00:56:46.679 --> 00:56:48.760
email and I appreciate the fact that you guys don't

1152
00:56:48.840 --> 00:56:51.320
swear very much, and so I think that was a

1153
00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:54.599
moment for us where we're like, yeah, we don't really,

1154
00:56:54.840 --> 00:56:56.280
we don't need to need to swear.

1155
00:56:56.119 --> 00:57:00.679
And so it's just out of respect for you know, thectims. Yeah,

1156
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:02.719
this is going to be a hard one. If you

1157
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:05.159
could solve any cold case, what case would it be?

1158
00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:08.519
That is a hard one. I think the first one

1159
00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:11.280
that jumps to my is John Benet Ramsey. But for me,

1160
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:13.920
I'm going to go with the Oakland County child killer.

1161
00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:17.199
Oh okay, because that's someday I'm going to cover that case.

1162
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:19.480
It's not a love Mary kill case. It was a

1163
00:57:19.559 --> 00:57:24.239
serial killer in the Detroit area who killed several young children.

1164
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:26.119
And I was growing up at that time. I was

1165
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:28.400
about the age of the victims and it was never

1166
00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:31.880
officially solved, which just really kills me that there wasn't

1167
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:33.159
justice for those kids.

1168
00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:35.639
For your birthday, I got you a new book about that. Yeah.

1169
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:37.199
I'm really looking forward to diving into that.

1170
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:40.719
Yeah, I would say other than to jump Van A. Ramsey,

1171
00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:43.800
because I would like to solve that one. Ellen Greenberg

1172
00:57:44.239 --> 00:57:48.239
that case. It just we did that case. I'm not

1173
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:50.199
sure if that's one of the cases where I felt

1174
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:52.400
like I could have worked on that for two months

1175
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:54.920
because there's a lot of information, a lot of court documents.

1176
00:57:55.880 --> 00:57:58.079
Her death just remained such a mystery and it was

1177
00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:01.639
classified as a suicide, and I just don't really believe

1178
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:05.840
it was a suicide. One last question, will you ever

1179
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.760
do the Jean Benet Ramsey case? And that is the

1180
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:11.119
question for you, It is a question for me.

1181
00:58:11.599 --> 00:58:15.920
Yes, I don't know. I won't. I won't rule it out.

1182
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:19.880
I was listeners I you were, and I asked Rich

1183
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:22.440
to do it this Christmas and he said no. So

1184
00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:26.519
that's all I wanted for Christmas. So overwhelming and it

1185
00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:28.440
is and I don't I don't know if people really

1186
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:34.079
want to hear it again, I'm junkie. Did she did

1187
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:35.880
a really long episode on it, and I think they

1188
00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:37.320
did a really good job.

1189
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:39.519
Yeah, yeah, someday maybe.

1190
00:58:40.239 --> 00:58:42.079
Well, thank you so much. If you got through all

1191
00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:43.880
of those questions, and if you send us a question,

1192
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:47.519
we just we really appreciate it. We appreciate all the

1193
00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:50.239
interactions we have with our listeners. You guys are amazing

1194
00:58:50.599 --> 00:58:51.760
and we love you so much.

1195
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:56.000
Well, that's a great transition into a poem. I wrote

1196
00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:57.920
a poem to thank our listeners.

1197
00:58:58.199 --> 00:58:59.559
You do that once in a while, I do.

1198
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:01.760
I love I love writing, make it into us.

1199
00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:04.880
Sometimes you write songs. Yeah, this is strictly a poem.

1200
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:06.920
This is strictly a poem. I think you might it

1201
00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:09.199
might sound familiar to you, but I'll start it and

1202
00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:11.599
then you can chime in. Are you ready?

1203
00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:11.920
Yeah.

1204
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:15.480
Twas the holiday season, and in the true crime community

1205
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:19.400
there was a feeling of peace, tranquility, and unity. The

1206
00:59:19.480 --> 00:59:23.000
stockings were hung, the nighttime was still. All was quiet

1207
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:25.119
in the studios of Love Mary Kill.

1208
00:59:26.000 --> 00:59:27.920
All of the criminals were locked up in jail. The

1209
00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:30.039
judge was asleep. There was no way to make bail.

1210
00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:33.840
The holiday preparations all were on track, so Tina and

1211
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.119
rich sat down for a wee little snack.

1212
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:39.159
Our partners in crime were all snug in their beds,

1213
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:42.639
while visions of plot twists danced in their heads. With

1214
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:47.360
twists and with turns, each episode spun a tale of love, betrayal,

1215
00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:48.800
and lives come undone.

1216
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.079
For a moment, we pause from the chilling in grim

1217
00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:55.880
to thank you, dear listeners, for all tuning in your

1218
00:59:55.960 --> 00:59:58.920
comments and emails make our hearts feel so light, like

1219
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:02.159
finding new lose on a dark stormy night.

1220
01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:05.320
For every late night you've spent listening to us on

1221
01:00:05.440 --> 01:00:08.400
the treadmill, the couch, or even the bus. For rating

1222
01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:11.639
and sharing, for spreading the word, Your kindness and loyalty

1223
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:12.880
never go unheard.

1224
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:16.519
So here's to you, dear listeners from near and afar

1225
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:20.199
you've joined us each week wherever you are, with love

1226
01:00:20.280 --> 01:00:23.440
and with gratitude. We're making a toast to you, all

1227
01:00:23.519 --> 01:00:25.599
our friends. We love you the most.

1228
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:29.119
Just one final thing before we bid you farewell, a

1229
01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:31.960
piece of advice that we think is swell, whether by

1230
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:33.960
poison or gun or by knife.

1231
01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:36.000
Please don't kill your husband and.

1232
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:37.119
Don't kill your wife.

1233
01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:39.199
Happy holidays.

1234
01:00:53.960 --> 01:00:57.079
Who's gonna be as lone and wife long and white.

1235
01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:02.880
Who my especial night here, that's why must be.

1236
01:01:03.039 --> 01:01:12.360
Said, must be said, must be said, Sadam who has

1237
01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.639
boot the RI says boot suit of Brad who is

1238
01:01:15.679 --> 01:01:16.800
a long camp on his head.

1239
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:19.679
Senda was long camp on his head, hap on his suit.

1240
01:01:19.719 --> 01:01:23.280
That's red special night here. That's why must be SAIDA

1241
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:32.280
must be Sada must be SAIDA Sama Walls, who's gonna

1242
01:01:32.280 --> 01:01:34.639
be rich? Jeremy News said it's gonna be rich Cherry

1243
01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:38.519
No who lapsed as will oh send muster straight? Oh

1244
01:01:38.599 --> 01:01:41.079
ho ho, Jemmy nose care on head the sue.

1245
01:01:41.119 --> 01:01:42.400
That's right, professional night.

1246
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:43.119
Here, that's right.

1247
01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:48.519
Must be side bust be said, bust be said, said

1248
01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:49.360
all