Allison and Gerard Baden-Clay - Part 2

WEBVTT

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Hi. I am Rich and I'm
Tina. And if there's one thing we've

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learned, and over twenty years of
marriage, some days you'll feel like killing

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your husband and some days you'll feel
like killing your wife. Welcome to love,

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Mary Kill Hi, Tina, Hey
Rich, welcome back. Yeah,

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I'm glad you came back for part
two that you haven't really moved. I

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was actually working on something while you
were busy doing something in the kitchen.

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I was busy preparing for you a
snack. Okay, would you like to

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know what it is? Yeah?
I just first of all, I want

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to compliment you. You went above
and beyond on part one. You brought

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the edge of mite, which if
would have been enough, but the Tim

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Tams and my favorite, I mean, you outdid yourself. Well. I'm

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going to temporary expectations for part two. I know how these things, but

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I do I made something. Yeah, I think you're gonna like this.

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So, as you know, I
was in New Orleans a week or so

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ago, and it wasn't for a
happy occasion. It was for the funeral

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of a good friend of mine.
But while I was there, I picked

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up some Begnet mix Okay, and
that's really ironic because tomorrow we're recording a

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Patreon episode and where we said that
we would talk about our friend Kevin and

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how we met, and I was
going to make you ben Oh were you

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really Wow? Well I beat you
to the punch by just a little bit.

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So I made some begnets and I
also brought back a creole Prayleen aunt

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Sally's creole Praleen. So yeah,
I think hopefully they came out pretty good.

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I think they look good. Yeah, they look great. Should we

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try them? Now? Let's let's
we could try them next Tuesday. Let's

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try them. Did you enjoy your
bennet and your prelin I mean you were

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pretty amazing. It was excellent.
Well, you had shamed me a few

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episodes ago that I was kind of, you know, phoning it in on

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the snacks, so I needed to
step up my game a little bit.

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And now I feel bad. But
you did a great job. You are

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a good little baker when you bake, and I do enjoy baking, but

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you are so good at it that
I don't get the opportunity that much,

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but I do enjoy it. Beignets
are a pastry, a French pastry.

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I just read I did not know
this. It's made with rice flours,

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so I guess that's why it's a
little lighter. Okay, they're pretty simple

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though. I mean it's just like
a little bit of dough and you deep

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fry it and then sprinkle some powdered
sugar on it. But they're yummy.

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Yeah, when you were in New
Orleans, you did not I did not

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go. No, I did not
go to Cafe Dumont, which is the

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famous Begnet place, but I did
buy the Cafe Dumont brandane miss You bought

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it in New Orleans, Yes,
even though the grocery store near Ust carries

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it. It's much more authentic if
you buy it in New Orleans and carry

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it back in your luggage right on
the plane. We appreciate. Yeah,

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we did a great job. And
the preline was they're kind of sick,

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sickningly sweet. Yeah, almost too
sweet even for me, which I love

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things that are sweet. But yeah, it was a bit much. Melt

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it and put it over ice cream. Maybe I'm glad you enjoyed it.

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Should we get back to our case
though, yes? Absolutely. Would you

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like to recap part one? Okay, you nicely recapped it. So I'm

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just going to read what you wrote. Alison and Jared Baiden Clay are from

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Queensland, Australia. But how old
are they at this point, like in

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their forties. Yeah, they're in
their mid forties, Okay. Allison was

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a ballet dancer as a child and
won the Miss Brisbane pageant in her early

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twenties. Jared's claim to fame was
that he was the great grandson of Robert

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Baden Powell, who wrote the book
Scouting for Boys and was known as the

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founder of the scouting movement. And
he liked to travel a lot. They

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try all over the world in the
earlier years of their relationship before they settled

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back in Australia, Like they went
everywhere. Yeah, they started a family

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and they had three daughters. Allison
was to stay at home mom, while

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Jarrett was a real estate mogul.
How successful he was is open to debate.

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Yeah. Jared also had multiple affairs, and one with a woman named

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Tony McHugh who worked with him,
and that affair lasted for three years.

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Allison when we left off, had
just found out about the fair right.

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Allison was devastated and demanded that Jared
choose her or Tony. He broke up

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with Tony and he was going to
stay with Ellison and work on their relationship.

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Then three months passed and he and
Tony got back together, so Allison

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one of the terms of them staying
together was that he fired Tony and she

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became office manager. And she found
that they were heavily in debt. He

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lost two of his business partners went
away, and that brings us to April

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sixteenth, twenty twelve. Allison's frame
of mind. As she was determined she

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was going to fix her marriage.
She started seeing a new therapist who encouraged

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her to bring Jared with her.
Excellent recap Will you wrote It? On

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Monday, April sixteenth, four days
before Jared called Triple zero to report Allison's

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disappearance, the couple went to see
Allison's new therapist, Carmel Ritchie. He

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met with Carmel without Alison at first, and told her that he thought Allison

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was living in the past by talking
about the affair. Of course, he

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didn't mention that the affair was not
in the past. Unbeknownst to Allison.

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Carmel disagreed and said he needed to
accept that it would take a long time

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for Allison to get past it and
learn to trust him again. She recommended

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a plan that would help Allison work
through her feelings. Every other night,

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for ten to fifteen minutes, Allison
would be allowed to vent. Jared was

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supposed to just sit and listen without
getting defensive. Alison could talk about whatever

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she wanted. He agreed, albeit
reluctantly. What do you think of that

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advice? I think every relationship could
honestly better from not just the woman being

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able to say whatever she wanted,
but vice versa. I think that's kind

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of a good approach. Would you
think. I don't think I could take

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it. It could go either way, I suppose. Instead of just sharing

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her feelings, Alison used the every
other night venting sessions to pump Jared for

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details of his affair with Tony.
What had he and Tony done together?

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What movies had they seen together?
When they had sex in the car?

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Did they put the car seats down
or leave them up? She couldn't help

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herself, she just needed to know
every detail. On Thursday, April nineteenth,

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Allison had a hair salon appointment at
five pm to get her hair done

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before attending a real estate conference.
The next morning. She was nervous about

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the conference, knowing that many of
the attendees knew Tony and also knew about

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the affair. She was determined to
keep her head held high and get through

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it as best she could. What
she didn't know was that Tony was also

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scheduled to attend the conference. Oh
no, Jared knew that both women would

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be there, and he called up
Tony as soon as Alison left for her

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hair appointment to let her know that
Allison would be attending. How familiar were

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Tony and Allison? Oh? I
think they knew each other fairly well.

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I mean, you know, Tony
worked at Jared's business and Allison was heavily

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involved in it. Tony was furious
that he was just telling her this now.

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The night before the conference, she
said, quote, I feel sick.

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How can you put us in this
situation? Unquote. Tony told Jared

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she was not backing out of attending
the conference and that he had better tell

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Allison that she would be there.
Jared knew that tonight was another of the

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fifteen minute venting sessions recommended by the
therapist, so now he also had this

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conversation about the conference to look forward
to We don't know much more about what

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happened that Thursday night after Allison got
back from her hair appointment other than what

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Jared has told us. We know
that Allison's best friend Carrie Anne texted Alison

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at four fifty nine pm to remind
Allison about a couple of dresses that Allison

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had borrowed from her for a Real
Estate Awards dinner. Carrie Anne needed them

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back. A reply came from Allison's
phone at seven fifty PM that said,

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quote, of course, sorry,
you had to chase them up. I

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am in the city all day at
the convention center, so can drop them

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off on my way home about six
pm. Is that okay? Or do

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you need them for tomorrow night?
Unquote. Carrie Anne was in the middle

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of dinner, so she didn't reply
until nine twenty five pm, saying,

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quote, all good, just need
for next week. Feel like I haven't

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seen you for ages. Hope everyone
okay, we will have to have lunch

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soon unquote. There was no further
reply from Alison. Carrie Anne would later

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say that the message from Allison sounded
more formal and apologetic than she would have

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expected. Allison would have known it
wasn't a big deal and there was no

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need to apologize, so she always
wondered if maybe Jared had sent the message

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and not Allison. As we mentioned
way back at the beginning of part one,

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Jared told the police that Allison had
been watching the footy show on the

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couch when he had gone to bed
around ten pm. He was a heavy

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sleeper and didn't know if Alison had
come to bed or not. When he

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woke around six, he assumed she
was out for a walk, but got

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worried because she wasn't back by seven
when he knew she had to leave for

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the conference. That's when he called
Triple zero and also his dad, who

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came over with his sister Olivia to
help look for Allison. Can we talk

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about triple zero for a second.
Sure, that's Australia's equivalent of nine one

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one, right, Yeah, do
you like it better? I think it's

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a little better, but I guess
we know nine one one now and you

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know from the age of a young
age. But yeah, it would not

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be better though if you had a
rotary phone, oh, because you're was

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the last which I know, you
know people don't have rovers. Sure it

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would be funny if herself one was
like a roadary dial. And also,

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if you recall from episode one,
Jared had two scratches down his left cheek

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that he claimed were the result of
a shaving accident, but that immediately put

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the police on high alert. To
them, it seemed that these injuries were

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far more likely from fingernails, not
a razor. Saw a picture of it

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during our break and yeah, definitely
pretty obvious, rightous. The police asked

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Jared about Allison's state of mind.
He said it was good, though she

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did have a history of depression.
He then told them about the affair,

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but he lied, saying it had
ended last year. He said, quote,

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obviously this has put a strain on
the relationship, but we've been working

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through it, and in fact,
we went and saw a counselor on Monday

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end quote. He told them about
her main walking roots, which had already

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been checked by him and his sister, and he told them that she normally

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wore a black or gray tracksuit when
she went for walk and that the gray

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one was missing from her closet,
and that her walking shoes were not where

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she usually left them. He also
told them that they had the find my

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friend's app on their phone, but
when he looked for her location, nothing

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came up. It seemed that she
had location services turned off. The police

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immediately called in additional units to help
with the search. One of the officers

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who arrived on the scene saw Jared's
father, Nigel, putting a vacuum cleaner

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into his car. The officer stopped
him. Soon additional people began arriving at

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Jared and Allison's home after hearing the
news that she was missing. Allison's parents,

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Jeff and Priscilla, arrived around eleven
and Jared greeted them by saying hello,

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Dad, good day, Mum.
They hated it when he referred to

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them as dad and mum. Allison's
best friend, Carrie Anne, showed up

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around one pm. Jared pulled her
and Allison's parents aside and told them he

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had spoken with a lawyer who recommended
that he not provide a formal statement.

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The lawyer said that the husband always
comes under suspicion in these situations, so

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it was best not to provide a
formal statement. Jared could still speak to

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the police and share what he knew, but there would be no formal affidavit.

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In writing, Jeff Priscilla and Carry
Anne were all astounded. Alison had

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been missing for a few hours,
and you've already spoken to a lawyer,

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and you're not going to help with
the investigation. Jared countered by saying he

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was helping with the investigation, he
just wasn't going to provide a formal statement.

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Carrie Anne asked if they had had
a fight, and Jared said no.

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The police were also taken aback by
Jared's decision not to provide a formal

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statement. It was his right not
to do so, but it was another

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major red flag in their minds.
Jared did agree to allow himself to be

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photographed, though police especially wanted to
document the injuries to his face. Carrie

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Anne told the police there was no
way her friend would ever walk out and

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leave her three daughters behind. It
just wouldn't happen. The police decided immediately

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to treat Allison's deay disappearance as a
major investigation. They closed the house as

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a crime scene, brought in the
homicide investigation unit, and established a Major

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Incident Room as the hub of the
investigation. They arranged for forensic technicians to

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test for blood in various areas of
the house, along with testing dirty clothes

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and the vacuum cleaner that Nigel had
been loading into his vehicle. The Baden

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Clays owned two cars, a Toyota
Prato and a Holden Captiva. Jared had

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told officers that he had gone looking
for Allison in the Captiva, but the

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police noticed that the Captiva was backed
into the carport behind the Prato. It

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would have been very challenging to back
the Captiva around the Prato and into the

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car port. They asked him why
he took the Captiva instead of the Prato,

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and he said it was because he
had gotten into an accident on Monday

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with the Proto, yet he drove
it to work on Tuesday, Wednesday and

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Thursday. The car thing became even
more suspicious when they looked in the back

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of the Captiva. There were some
boxes with a bunch of children's toys.

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The toys were all neatly arranged,
as if they had been carefully placed there

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by someone. If he had been
out driving that car around, there was

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no way the toys would have been
arranged all just so they would have been

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jostled around. The police set up
search headquarters at the Brookfield Showground, a

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fair ground area where various events were
held, which was just a couple of

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hundred yards from the baden Clay home. Before long, the entire community was

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galvanized and showing up to help.
It would be one of the largest most

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thorough search efforts for a missing person
in Queensland history. The police canvassed the

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neighborhood around Jared and Allison's home.
There were several stories of people hearing unusual

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sounds late on Thursday night. The
neighbors across the street reported hearing a sharp,

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startled yell sometime between seven thirty and
nine thirty pm. Another woman on

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the street was brushing her teeth a
little before ten pm when she heard raised,

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anne grief voices. She couldn't tell
if it was a man, woman

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or both. Then, after going
to bed, she said she heard a

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woman's scream. Another neighbor also reported
hearing a scream loud and high pitched,

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followed a few minutes later by another. There were also a couple of other

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reports of screams or other suspicious noises. The problem with these reports is that

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there were a number of inconsistencies.
There were different times noted, different numbers

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of screams, and different descriptions of
what sounds they were. It was hard

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to know what was real and what
wasn't. To add to the confusion,

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another neighbor came forward with a story
about arriving home with her thirteen year old

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son and fifteen year old daughter around
nine fifty pm. The two teenagers were

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fighting on their way home and after
getting out of the car, they were

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screaming at each other. Then the
girl walked into a spiderweb on the way

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into the house and let out a
piercing scream. Because of that, so

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it was possible that this was the
source of the scream and some of the

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reports walking into a spider's web in
Australia, that's a terrifying sorry, because

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the spiders are some of them are
really really big, and some are pretty

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dangerous. On Saturday, the police
asked Jared to give them the name of

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the woman he had been having an
affair with. He was reluctant, but

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finally gave them Tony's name. He
said he would have to get back to

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them with her phone number, though. M after this conversation, he immediately

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called Tony and warned her that the
police would be contacting her. What a

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00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.440
What Tony thought. At this point, the police asked Jared to come in

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to be photographed again. They had
photographed his face the day before, but

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they hadn't done it properly with a
ruler to show the size of the injuries,

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and they also wanted to get a
look under his shirt. He agreed,

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and they were surprised when he removed
his shirt to see a painful looking

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area of scratches and bruises on his
chest, along with another scratch near the

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left side of his neck and won
by his right armpit. Jared explained that

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he had been at a school cross
country event the day before Allison's disappearance and

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that a caterpillar or something that had
bitten him. That's the best excuse I've

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ever hatterpillars are you got to look
out for that? Yeah? What is

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silly too that they didn't take make
him the first day? Oh I know,

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I don't know how they didn't think
of that when he clearly had scratches

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00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:25.160
on his face. Yeah, as
crazy as that sounds. Someone later told

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the police that they were at a
cross country event on the nineteenth speaking with

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Jared under some trees when suddenly he
grabbed the less side of his neck and

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exclaimed, oh shit, what was
that? Oh god, bloody hell,

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that hurt. Well. Do you
think he was faking it? No?

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I think he probably really did get
bitten by something, but I don't think

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that was the cause of all of
those injuries. And the witness saw a

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red well quickly appear on his neck, so that might explain the neck injury,

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but probably not the scratches or bruises
on his chest. That seemed more

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like someone struggling and maybe hitting him
in the chest, or as we refer

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00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.319
to them in the true crime community
as defensive wounds. Right on Sunday,

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forensic technicians did a thorough search of
Jared and Allison's vehicles. The technician noticed

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a dark stain dripping toward the floor
on a panel in the third row seating

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area, and it tested positive for
blood. Also on Sunday, they decided

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to ask Jared to come in and
be photographed a third time because they didn't

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have him take his pants off the
first two times. It's mind boggling,

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isn't it. You just can't believe
they were so silly. Like I think

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overall, the police did a really
good job, like they mobilized, really

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quickly and they knew something was up. But yeah, that is really strange

258
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that they did not think to photograph
his whole body. Absolutely. In any

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00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:49.880
case, Jared agreed to be photographed
again, but this time on his way

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to the police station, Jared got
into an accident. He veered off the

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road straight into a pillar. It
was a perfectly straight road and no one

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else was involved. A witness said
that he had driven straight into the pillar

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at about thirty miles per hour without
breaking. Jared fell out of the car

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on to the ground and started dragging
himself across the ground with his arms as

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if his legs weren't working. A
bystander came up to help him and asked

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his name, but rally would say, is I need my lawyer. He

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kept repeating it over and hour,
which really confused the people that were trying

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to help him. Well, that
is a wild story. Paramedics arrived to

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find him lying face down, bawling
his eyes out. They asked him questions,

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trying to assess his injuries, but
again he kept asking for someone to

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call his lawyer. Suddenly, his
lawyer appeared at the scene. No one

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00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.880
seems to know how he found out
about the accident or who summoned him.

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The lawyer told paramedics his client had
been under a lot of stress lately and

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that he wouldn't be answering any questions
about the accident. That's so bizarre.

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The paramedics didn't know who he was
and were obviously confused by a lawyer being

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00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:04.880
involved, but when the police showed
up, they recognized Jared. Jared was

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still sobbing, and he kept saying
that he was sorry. One of the

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officers saw an opportunity and asked him, quote, are you sorry about the

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accident or something else? Jared said, quote, there's something else, but

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he trailed off and the ambulance took
him away before he could say any more.

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Looking back, the police wondered if
he had been close to confessing but

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his lawyer was there. You think
his lawyer would have been like, shut

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00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:32.680
up, Jared, Yeah, you
would think. And how did his lawyer

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00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.720
like just show up. That That
kind of boggles my mind too. It's

285
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like he was this lawyer someone that
if you just said I need my lawyer

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00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:44.359
three times, he just appeared magically. At the hospital, a mental health

287
00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.039
nurse did an assessment to determine whether
Jared was suicidal or not. They kept

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00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:52.519
him overnight and decided his mental state
was okay, so they released him the

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00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:56.839
next day. So, just based
on what we walked through, do you

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00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.680
think it was really an accident or
do you think he intentionally drove into this

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00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.359
pillar? I don't know. It's
a very bizarre situation. Do you think

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00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:07.480
he was just having a mental breakdown? It sort of seems that way.

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I don't think he was suicidal because
he had First of all, he had

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a seatbelt on, so I think
if he had been trying to harm himself,

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he probably wouldn't have. But yeah, he must have just had like

296
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a mental break or something. Within
a day of Allison's disappearance, the media

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00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.079
began reporting on the story. A
reporter showed up at Nigel and Elaine's home,

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where Jared was also staying, due
to his house now being a crime

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00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.279
scene, but the reporter was turned
away with no comment from the family.

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They quickly closed ranks and decided that
the media were the enemy. On Monday,

301
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Allison's parents went in front of reporters
to make a public plea for help

302
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in finding their daughter. Although he
was asked, Jared refused to make a

303
00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:52.440
public appeal because he didn't want journalists
asking about the scratches on his face.

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Jared did speak to the media briefly
on Tuesday, the only time he would

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00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.319
make a public comment, but it
didn't go well. A reporter was out

306
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.680
in front of Nigel and Elene's home
at five am on Tuesday when Jared and

307
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his sister happened to come out with
the camera rolling. Jared stopped and spoke

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to the reporter. I'm trying to
look after my children at the moment.

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They've got three young girls, and
we we really trust that the police are

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doing everything they can to find my
wife, and we just hope that she

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will come home. So I've spoken
to the police about everything and I've had

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no contact from him at all.
It was she upset before she went away.

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No, and the police. I've
tried to help the police as much

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as I can, and we all
have everything we've got, so thank you.

315
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.799
I'm sorry. You can hear how
authentic those tears are, can't.

316
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.519
He closed the interview by saying,
and I need to go now to an

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00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.720
appointment. I just we've got such
great family support, my sister and family

318
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:55.680
here and they're looking after he trailed
off at that point. The reporter had

319
00:22:55.720 --> 00:23:00.960
been nice, not at all confrontational
or accusatory, but it heard that Jared

320
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.640
just wanted to get away, and
the fact that there were no real tears

321
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and no emotion displayed was a stark
contrast to the pleas from Allison's parents the

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00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:12.759
day before. That was the point
when many viewers who had been keeping an

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00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:18.720
open mind came to believe that Jared
was somehow involved in Allison's disappearance. The

324
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:23.799
story began to dominate Queensland media outlets. Reporters found out about the falling out

325
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:29.240
Jared had had with his business partners, the financial challenges in his business,

326
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.799
especially after the flooding, and they
also found out about the affair with Tony

327
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.599
McHugh. People were glued to their
screens as the story developed, much like

328
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:41.440
the Scott Peterson case in the US, but without the added drama of Jared

329
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:47.640
or Tony speaking on camera. Even
people who had been friends of Jared's were

330
00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:51.640
starting to turn on him. His
old business partner, Phil Broome spoke to

331
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.680
the police and said, quote,
Jared has a public face which is ethical,

332
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.200
moral and upstanding. He is involved
in all the right groups, but

333
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:03.200
it's always about what's in it for
him. He would lecture staff about lying,

334
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:07.079
but would continue this long term affair. I didn't appreciate how he could

335
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.440
talk to me about being deceptive when
he was living a lie. A former

336
00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:17.680
classmate who had been involved in scouting
with Jared called crime Stoppers and shared several

337
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.240
secluded locations that Jared knew about from
scouting where maybe people should look for Allison's

338
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:27.200
body, but none of the leads
panned out. By Monday, April thirtieth,

339
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:32.319
ten days after her disappearance, there
still was no sign of Allison.

340
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:37.039
That morning, a kayaker was out
for a morning paddle on the Brisbane River.

341
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.240
He decided to duck down an offshoot
of the river called Colo Creek,

342
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.279
where he knew there was a nice, peaceful and secluded area that he had

343
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:48.240
been to before. It was an
area that felt like his own secret spot

344
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:52.559
because he had never seen anyone else
there. He paddled away as down Colo

345
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.319
Creek when he saw the body of
a woman lying on the muddy bank under

346
00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.039
a bridge that went over the creek. He quickly realized that it must be

347
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:06.960
Allison. The location was about eight
miles from Allison and Jared's home. The

348
00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:11.359
police arrived and cordoned off the scene. It was very difficult to get access

349
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.000
to her body because it was a
lengthy drop straight down to the river bank.

350
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.440
They decided to repel down from the
bridge. After collecting evidence from the

351
00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:23.160
scene, including samples of the creek, water, plants, soil, and

352
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.119
insects that were in the vicinity of
her body, They used a stretcher to

353
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:33.839
hoist Allison's body up from the bank. Once the media started reporting that Allison's

354
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.160
body had been found along Colo Creek
under the bridge, a couple that lived

355
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.200
near the location came forward with a
story from the night Allison went missing.

356
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.359
The couple had been asleep in bed. The wife was a flight attendant who

357
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:49.359
had to be at work by five
fifteen am on that Friday morning, when

358
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:52.559
they were awoken by their dog howling
in the back of their house, which

359
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.599
backed up to the Brisbane River.
The husband got out of bed to quiet

360
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.440
the dog. He didn't look at
the clock, but he gave that it

361
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.200
was around twelve thirty or one am. He figured there was a deer or

362
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:07.160
something out in the yard. He
went out onto the back veranda and heard

363
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:12.160
some mumbling voices off in the distance
before going back to bed. Soon the

364
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.200
wife got up to go to work. Pulling out of the driveway in the

365
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:19.480
dark, she saw two cars traveling
down the road. The one in front

366
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:23.079
had its headlights on and the car
behind it was driving so close that it

367
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:27.799
was almost touching and its headlights were
off. It was very unusual to see

368
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.960
any cars out on this remote road
at this early hour, much less two

369
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:37.640
cars driving as they were. At
the mortuary, an initial examination was done

370
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.160
on Allison's body. It was fairly
decomposed, so it was difficult to see

371
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:47.640
if there were any external injuries.
A CT scan was done and showed no

372
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:52.519
fractures, including no fractures to her
skull, nasal bone, or ribs,

373
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:56.319
and her hyoid bone was intact.
There was no sign of sexual assault,

374
00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.319
and her lungs did not indicate that
she had drowned. There were only three

375
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:06.480
injuries that could be ascertained, one
a subdural hemorrhage indicating a blow to the

376
00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:11.319
head with moderate force, two a
chipped tooth but no evidence of when it

377
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:15.640
had happened, and three a bruise
or hemorrhage on her left in her chest

378
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:19.759
wall, indicating an impact of mild
force to her chest area. The only

379
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:25.400
blood available for testing was from her
liver, which wasn't ideal. They detected

380
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:29.680
certralene in her blood, which is
the active ingredient in zoloft, but it

381
00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.519
was hard to determine how much of
the drug was in her system. They

382
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.240
couldn't determine whether or not an overdose
of the drug could have been the cause

383
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.680
of death. In the end,
the medical examiner was unable to reach a

384
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.519
conclusion as to Allison's cause of death. They did determine that her body had

385
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:49.039
most likely been in the same location
on the river bank the entire time,

386
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:55.920
as opposed to having drifted there.
That is very frustrating that her cause of

387
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:59.119
death could not be determined or her
manner of death, right, Yeah,

388
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.079
really frustrating, and it was a
really sad outcome, I think for the

389
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:06.000
people who were searching. You know, there was still some glimmer of hope

390
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.039
that she was out there alive and
that maybe she had left and run off.

391
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:14.480
But very sad outcome. But far
enough away from her home where she

392
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.480
probably hadn't been out walking that morning, right, It's a really good point.

393
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:19.759
It was eight miles away from their
home, so probably she didn't walk

394
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:25.440
eight miles that night. She definitely
did not walk eight miles before she had

395
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:29.359
to go to work to a big
conference. Right, we'll be back after

396
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:41.359
a break. Allison had three life
insurance policies, their value totaling nearly a

397
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.599
million dollars. These weren't new policies. She had one since two thousand and

398
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.079
the other since two thousand and eight, and Jared had three million dollars worth

399
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:55.960
of life insurance on himself, so
the fact that Allison had these policies wasn't

400
00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:00.720
suspicious in itself. The couple had
actually been talking to their financial adviser about

401
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.000
reducing their coverage, but those changes
weren't made by the time Allison disappeared.

402
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:10.160
Just one week before Allison's disappearance,
Jared had called one of her insurers to

403
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:14.640
get information about her policy, but
they wouldn't give him any details because he

404
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:19.759
wasn't the policy holder. Once Allison's
body was recovered, Jared didn't waste any

405
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:25.400
time notifying the life insurance companies.
He called to notify them the day her

406
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:30.200
body was discovered, even before it
was positively identified. Then he notified them

407
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.680
again the next day to let them
know he was planning to file a claim

408
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:37.960
A week after Allison's body was found. He called one of her insurers.

409
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:42.839
The operator said quote. The caller
was clearly upset and indicated that he was

410
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:48.880
worried the policy would lapse end.
He wanted to find out if he had

411
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.000
to keep paying the premium in order
to ensure the policy would pay out.

412
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.799
His call ended up getting escalated to
an executive at the insurance company, who

413
00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:00.680
assured him that he did not need
to keep paying the premium at this point.

414
00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:04.160
Well, that's go and look suspicious
at all, does it. He

415
00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:08.160
also tried to expedite getting a death
certificate so he could file the claims more

416
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.480
quickly. Eventually, the insurers did
pay out, but the money went into

417
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:21.559
a trust until any potential criminal proceedings
played out. Well played insurers. Allison's

418
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:26.720
funeral arrangements were a source of friction
between Jared and Allison's parents. Allison's dad,

419
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.720
Jeff, met with Jared at a
park to discuss the arrangements after Allison's

420
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:36.960
body had been identified. It was
a terse meeting. Jared brought a digital

421
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:41.960
recorder to record the conversation, which
angered Jeff. Jared made a list of

422
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.079
demands for the funeral. He said
if his requests weren't honored, he wouldn't

423
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:52.039
bring the girls to the funeral.
His demands included one a Scouts emblem printed

424
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.240
on the front of the service booklet. Two he wanted to see all of

425
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.200
the speeches in advance, and three
he wanted to give his own speed each

426
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.119
and four he wanted his speech to
be last. In the end, Jeff

427
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.559
didn't agree to any of these demands, and Jared still showed up with the

428
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.359
children and all more than six hundred
people came to pay their respects. The

429
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:17.920
police decided to use the funeral to
try something. They knew that Jared would

430
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.559
be allowed to visit Allison's casket to
have a few moments alone with her before

431
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.960
the other mourners were allowed in,
so they planted a recording device and the

432
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:30.640
flowers at the top of the casket. That just seems like something you would

433
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.240
see in a movie. It was
a long shot, but they were hoping

434
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:41.079
Jared might confess in some way,
he would say sorry sorry. But Jared

435
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.720
was running late and didn't end up
having this moment alone with Alison, so

436
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:51.000
the plans were for naught. They
must have been so bombed. Alison's sister

437
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:55.640
Vanessa closed the ceremony by saying,
quote, she will be remembered for her

438
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:59.599
acts of kindness and love. Allison, your loss has been felt throughout the

439
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:04.039
country by people who do not know
you. You're passing his height and the

440
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:07.799
need for all of us to provide
a safe and peaceful community and a world

441
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.559
for our children. You have been
taken from us far too early, but

442
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:14.640
you will never be forgotten by all
those who knew you and loved you.

443
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:20.039
End quote. One of the detectives
investigating the case came to the funeral at

444
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.680
the end of the ceremony. As
mourners were offering their condolences to Jared,

445
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:29.039
the detective joined them and shared his
sympathies with Jared. Jared was taken aback

446
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:31.359
and stammered, quote, I just
hope you find out who did this.

447
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.160
The detective looked him in the eye
and said, Oh, don't worry,

448
00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:42.720
Jared, we will boy. Shortly
after Allison's body was found, Jared called

449
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:45.839
a friend of his who happened to
be the Minister for Housing in Public Works.

450
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:51.799
Jared wanted to know about a particular
camera and a roundabout that was between

451
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:55.960
his house and where Allison's body was
found. He asked whether it recorded all

452
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.960
the time or not. Again,
not at all suspicious, he said he

453
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.200
was asking because, quote, maybe
it will help find the killer. The

454
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:08.960
request made Jared's friend highly uncomfortable.
He said he would find out and get

455
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:14.200
back to Jared, but he never
did. In fact, the camera did

456
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:16.920
record all the time, and the
police had reviewed the footage from the night

457
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:22.680
Allison disappeared. It captured greeny footage
of what could have been Jared's hold in

458
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:27.160
Captiva, but the quality was too
poor to tell for sure. It's such

459
00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:30.119
a bummer, isn't it. Like
you have these traffic cameras, but the

460
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.119
quality. I guess it was nighttime. It was dark, but still well,

461
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:37.559
I hate when it works out there
in the perpetrator's face. Yeah.

462
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:40.119
Yeah. It seems like there were
a lot of things that went Jared's way

463
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:45.440
in this whole case. On June
twelfth, twenty twelve, almost two months

464
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:50.759
after Allison's disappearance, the investigative team
met to discuss the evidence and decide whether

465
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.319
or not there was enough to arrest
Jared. They had the scratch marks on

466
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.599
Jared's face and the bruises on his
chest, Allison's blood in the car,

467
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:04.640
the witnesses who had heard screams that
night, the affair with Tony and other

468
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.719
women, along with the insurance money, which could be considered as possible motives.

469
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:14.920
There was also some electronic evidence that
seemed compelling. Computer forensic technicians had

470
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:20.199
determined that Jared had googled the term
taking the fifth two days before Allison was

471
00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:25.360
reported missing, and he pulled up
the Wikipedia page for self incrimination minutes before

472
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:31.239
calling Triple Zero about Allison's disappearance.
They found that he had plugged his iPhone

473
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:36.119
in at one forty eight a m. The night of Allison's disappearance, when

474
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.760
he had claimed to be sound asleep
long before that. I didn't know they

475
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:43.840
could detect on your iPhone when at
what time you plugged it in. That's

476
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:47.440
interesting. Yeah, it wasn't the
strongest case in the world, but they

477
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.199
decided to move forward with the arrest. They took him into custody the next

478
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:55.199
day, June thirteenth, twenty twelve. He wasn't able to get a bail

479
00:34:55.199 --> 00:35:00.000
hearing until July twenty first. In
Australia, bail could only be granted for

480
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:05.159
a murder charge by the state Supreme
Court, not the local magistrates, so

481
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.719
it took a while to get on
the docket. His family and friends had

482
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:13.239
scraped together about a half million dollars, using their homes as collateral in case

483
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:17.280
bail was allowed. The day before
the bail hearing, the computer forensics team

484
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.760
found some new and enticing evidence.
The analysis software they were using showed that

485
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:29.199
Jared had made a previously unknown FaceTime
call to his father at twelve thirty a

486
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:32.519
m. The night that Allison went
missing, lasting one minute and twenty three

487
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:37.639
seconds. It showed up as a
deleted entry, meaning that Jared must have

488
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:42.639
tried to eliminate the evidence. The
police got a warrant for Elaine in Nigel's

489
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:46.960
home that afternoon to seize any Apple
devices, but the search came up empty.

490
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:52.639
Elaine pointed investigators to a fruit bowl, saying those were the only apples

491
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:58.239
they had in their home. At
the bail hearing, Jared's defense lawyers argued

492
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.719
that the case against him was weak. They didn't have a cause of death,

493
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.639
they didn't have a date or time
of death. There was no murder

494
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.800
weapon, no sightings of Jared near
where Allison's body had been found. In

495
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:10.960
fact, no sightings of him outside
of his home at all that night.

496
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.159
He had three children and hadn't fled
up until now, so why would he

497
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:20.599
choose to flee if he was granted
bail. It's not common for judges to

498
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:23.679
allow bail on murder trials in Australia, and sure enough, Jared was denied.

499
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:29.079
He was devastated, but his fight
for bail was not over yet.

500
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.960
Shortly after the bail hearing, the
prosecution realized they had made a big mistake

501
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.559
and notified Jared's defense team as required
by law. The FaceTime called that they

502
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:45.079
had detected It didn't happen and couldn't
possibly have happened. First, Nigel and

503
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:49.280
Elaine didn't own any Apple products.
They hadn't been lying about that. But

504
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:52.920
also, Jared's iPhone was an older
model, the three GS, and it

505
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:57.880
didn't have a front facing camera,
so Apple's FaceTime software wouldn't even run on

506
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.119
that device. It turned out that
the analysis software that they were using had

507
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:06.679
some type of glitch that caused it
to misinterpret the information they had gotten from

508
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:12.199
Jared's phone. It was a big
embarrassment for the prosecution. Jared's defense team

509
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:16.000
started gearing up for another run at
bailing him out. There was another key

510
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:21.199
piece of electronic evidence that the defense
team also disputed. This is going to

511
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:23.920
remind you of Scott Peterson and the
Martha Stewart Show. Remember that, I

512
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:29.920
remember it well. Remember they said
that Jared googled taking the fifth two days

513
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:36.000
before Allison went missing, and self
incrimination just minutes before he called triple zero.

514
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.360
According to Jared, he and his
parents were watching the legal drama The

515
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:44.480
Goodwife on Wednesday night, the week
that Allison went missing. His legal team

516
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:46.480
got a copy of the episode that
aired that night, and sure enough,

517
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:52.000
there were three references to taking the
fifth. Jared googled the term at ten

518
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:53.880
oh eight pm, when the show
would have been a little more than half

519
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:59.639
over, and googling that term took
him to a Wikipedia page titled self and

520
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:04.320
criminal Nation. Here in the USA, it's pretty common knowledge what taking the

521
00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:08.760
fifth means your right to not provide
information that would be incriminating against yourself,

522
00:38:09.159 --> 00:38:14.880
But in Australia it's not an especially
well known term. The question you might

523
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:20.039
still have is why did he pull
up the self incrimination Wikipedia page just minutes

524
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.440
before dialing triple zero? All the
way that iPhones work is that if your

525
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:28.880
browser is closed and then you open
it, it will reload any pages that

526
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:32.280
were previously opened. So when Jared
opened his browser to find the number for

527
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:37.000
the Queensland Police, which he had
tried calling before he called Triple zero,

528
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:43.800
it reloaded the self incrimination Wikipedia page. So two key parts of the prosecution's

529
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:50.079
argument were now completely discredited. Jared
was granted a new bail hearing on December

530
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:53.679
fourteenth, twenty twelve. This time, his lawyers came out with an alternative

531
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:59.239
theory. They argued that Allison had
ended her own life. They said the

532
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:02.639
toxicology results showed that there was at
least a possibility that she had died of

533
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:07.639
a Zoloft overdose. The medical examiner
disagreed with this conclusion, but there was

534
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:12.840
room for uncertainty because they were only
able to test the levels in her liver.

535
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:16.159
There was no other blood to test. However, the judge once again

536
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:22.599
ruled against Jared. He would stay
in jail until his trial. So Allison's

537
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:27.119
body sat outside for ten days before
she was found. She had no wounds

538
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.800
for the blood to escape from,
so we were wondering what happened with the

539
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:35.880
blood. Yeah, and we kind
of think that it just decomposes, Yeah,

540
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.360
and it turns into like gas,
Okay, and then it might leave

541
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:43.079
your body somehow. I'm not sure
if that's correct. Now. Yeah,

542
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.119
well, her body was fairly decomposed
overall, so yeah, I guess the

543
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:50.719
blood would just sort of decompose along
with your body. But yeah, good

544
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:54.639
question. The trial began on June
tenth, twenty fourteen. Jared had been

545
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:59.599
sitting in jail for two years.
I liked that for him. The prosecution

546
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:04.079
energy was to keep things as simple
as possible. They didn't want to distract

547
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.079
or confuse the jury by bringing too
much into the case. They knew the

548
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.280
defense would be trying to convince the
jury that Allison had died by suicide,

549
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:16.719
so they brought in several people who
testified that Allison seemed perfectly normal and happy

550
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:21.880
on that Thursday, the last day
that she had been seen alive. They

551
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.000
tried to paint a picture of someone
who had mental health struggles in the past,

552
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:29.920
but knew when and how to seek
help. The fact that the medical

553
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:34.639
examiner couldn't rule out an overdose,
drowning, or falling from the bridge as

554
00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:38.400
causes of death was a challenge for
the prosecution, Carmel Ritchie, the therapist

555
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:43.880
that had seen Alison and Jared about
a week before Alison disappeared, took the

556
00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:47.320
stand even though she didn't want to. She was in an uncomfortable position because

557
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:52.239
she had recommended the fifteen minute every
other day venting sessions, and both the

558
00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:59.159
prosecutor and the defense argued that these
sessions contributed to some way to what happened.

559
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.840
Prosecutor, the venting sessions may have
been what triggered the fight that killed

560
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:08.119
Allison. For the defense, it
may have been the final straw that drove

561
00:41:08.199 --> 00:41:13.599
her to the end of her own
life. Everyone was waiting for Tony McHugh

562
00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:17.199
to testify. She had been keeping
a low profile, living under an alias

563
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:22.559
since being exposed as Jared's lover.
It had taken her a while, but

564
00:41:22.639 --> 00:41:28.000
eventually she came to the conclusion that
Jared must have killed Alison. The defense

565
00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:32.400
made the case that when Jared finally
had an ultimatum to choose between Alison and

566
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:37.440
Tony, he had chosen Allison,
so why then would he turn around and

567
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:42.199
kill her. The person who turned
out to be the star witness for the

568
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:46.679
prosecution was an unlikely hero. His
name was doctor Gordon Geimer. He was

569
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:52.159
a botanist. Geymer was the director
of the Queensland Herbarium at the Brisbane Botanical

570
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:58.760
Gardens. The Herbarium provides a free
plant identification service to the public. You

571
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:04.039
can bring in any boato titanical material
and they'll identify it for you and tell

572
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.559
you what species of plant it is. The medical examiner had gathered various botanical

573
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:13.400
materials from Allison's hair, body and
clothing and sent the samples over to doctor

574
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:19.360
Geimer. He identified six different species
of plants. Investigators then took him out

575
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:23.239
to the Colo Creek Bridge where Allison's
body had been found. A thorough search

576
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:28.400
of the area only revealed two of
the six plant species in the vicinity.

577
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.119
They then took him to Allison and
Jared's home, where he quickly found all

578
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:37.000
six species of plant around the house, some in front of the house,

579
00:42:37.400 --> 00:42:40.480
some alongside the pavers in the back, and some around the car port.

580
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:46.239
This indicated to investigators that Allison was
most likely killed at her home and her

581
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:51.800
body dragged out of the car in
the process, getting leaves from those specific

582
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:55.360
plants tangled in her hair and clothes. Doctor Geimer went above and beyond,

583
00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:00.199
though. In his preparation for the
trial, he realized he might be asked

584
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:06.199
about the likelihood of any random yard
or location having the same combination of plans.

585
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:09.960
So he spent two full weekends before
the trial selecting points on the map

586
00:43:10.239 --> 00:43:15.000
at random, visiting those areas,
and documenting how many of the six species

587
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:21.400
of plants he could find at each
location. And all he visited five hundred

588
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:25.320
different locations. Amazing, not a
single one had all six plans and only

589
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:30.159
one of the five, and only
one had five of the six. Jared's

590
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:35.719
was the only yard out of all
of those sample that had all six species.

591
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:39.559
The jury was captivated by doctor Geimer's
testimony. I love that story and

592
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:43.519
it's just so like what a what
a scientist, you know, just going

593
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.079
out there and visiting five hundred locations
on his own time, like on the

594
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:51.880
weekends too. Yeah. After the
Crown rest of their case, the defense

595
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:57.239
moved to have the murder charge dropped
and instead have Jared charged only with manslaughter.

596
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:00.199
They argue that there was no evidence
of an intend to kill or to

597
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:05.760
inflict grievous bodily harm, which was
essential to reach a guilty verdict and a

598
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:10.559
murder charge that judge denied their motion. Very few people expected Jared to take

599
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:15.719
the stand, but he did.
He was convinced that he was so charming

600
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.320
that he could win over the jury. Typical narcissist right. His attorneys asked

601
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:23.239
him questions to give him the opportunity
to portray himself as a loving husband and

602
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:29.239
father, but he ended up going
down all kinds of rabbit holes and telling

603
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:32.800
long winded stories that weren't relevant.
Once he got comfortable on the stand,

604
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:37.280
he seemed to enjoy the opportunity to
be the center of attention. He said

605
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:42.719
the affairs were just about sex because
Allison was depressed and had lost interest.

606
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:46.039
He claimed that the affair with Tony
went on for so long only because she

607
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:51.400
was a good salesperson and he didn't
want to lose her. Sure, Tony

608
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:55.800
was thrilled to hear that many observers
thought Jared came off as arrogant and smug,

609
00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:59.920
not a good look. In the
words of David Murray, the author

610
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.639
of the book that was our primary
source for this case, Jared had performed

611
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:14.199
like shunky properties what a shonky property
spriker rather than a sincere and likable widower.

612
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:16.840
I was going to ask you if
you could figure out what shonky property

613
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:21.719
spiker meant, just given the context. But now you're looking at the scripts.

614
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:25.199
Well, no, I'm still trying
to like determine how to say that

615
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:31.519
word spookers. I think it's spriker. Okay, Well, I mean just

616
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:37.639
a shady, shady fella. Yeah. I think shanky means shoddy or unreliable

617
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:43.519
or dishonest or fraudulent, and spiker
means someone who gives a speech in public,

618
00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:49.559
especially a salesman or a showman.
Okay. In the defense's closing arguments,

619
00:45:49.599 --> 00:45:53.360
they put forth an alternative theory of
how Alison had died. Jared's brother,

620
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:57.920
who lived in Canada, had just
recently had a baby boy before her

621
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:01.719
disappearance. Jared claimed that Ellison had
always wanted a boy, and her new

622
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:07.159
nephew was a reminder that upset her. Maybe she had stayed up late watching

623
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:12.159
TV thinking about all that had transpired
between her and Jared. Jared had told

624
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:15.519
her that night about Tony being at
the conference the next day, and she

625
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:20.800
was upset about that too. She
was a classic conflict of void. Maybe

626
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:25.039
she took a zoloft or a few
zolofts, plugged Jared's phone into the charger

627
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:29.800
At one forty eight am, left
for a walk, then somehow ended up

628
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:35.199
in the river, either by falling
or jumping. Okay, the case finally

629
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:37.840
went to the jury. Many observers
in the media believed that Jared could be

630
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:44.119
acquitted because the evidence against him just
wasn't enough to prove murder beyond a reasonable

631
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:47.840
doubt. Others felt that the jury
would come back with a man slaughter verdict

632
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:52.880
instead of murder. As the deliberations
dragged on into day two, then day

633
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:59.679
three, speculation reached a fever pitch, betting on a not guilty outcome.

634
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:06.320
Outlets scramble to convince Jared's family to
arrange an exclusive interview with Jared, saying

635
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:10.239
he could basically name his price boy. Finally, on day four, the

636
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:15.519
jury reached a verdict guilty of murder. The mandatory penalty for murder was life

637
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:22.280
in prison, but with the possibility
of parole after fifteen years. Are you

638
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.840
surprised by that verdict? Maybe a
little bit, But as we always say,

639
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:29.440
like I didn't sit through the trial
and so I don't know all of

640
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.519
the evidence against him. Yeah,
it does seem like I am one hundred

641
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:37.000
percent convinced of Jared's guilt, but
it does seem like the evidence was very

642
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:43.320
circumstantial, which is not necessarily a
bad thing. But there wasn't a ton

643
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.840
I mean, not having cause of
death, time of death, location of

644
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:51.519
death, murder weapon. Do you
think the burden of proof in Australia is

645
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:53.840
as high as it is here?
I get the sense that it's very similar.

646
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:58.519
The legal system from everything I've read, seems very similar. Yeah,

647
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:04.079
our story is not over yet,
though. Jared's defense appealed his conviction on

648
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:07.960
four grounds. Three of them had
to do with the judge's instructions to the

649
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:12.480
jury, claiming he made errors,
and the fourth was an argument to reduce

650
00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:16.440
the charge from murder to manslaughter.
In this fourth argument, they presented an

651
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:22.119
alternative theory on what could have happened. Jared wasn't admitting to this, mind

652
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:24.679
you, it was just hypothetical.
But what if they had a fight,

653
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:30.400
Alison attacked Jared and he accidentally killed
her during the fight, and then instead

654
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:36.079
of facing the consequences, he decided
to cover it up. The appeal argued

655
00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:40.239
that the jury couldn't reasonably reasonably have
ruled this scenario out, even though Jared's

656
00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:45.119
testimony in court claimed this scenario didn't
happen. He said he had no idea

657
00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:50.360
how Alison might have died. Can
you break that down for me? Basically,

658
00:48:50.360 --> 00:48:53.440
the appeal is arguing that the jury
couldn't have known that he intended to

659
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:57.719
kill her, that it could have
just been a fight that escalated and turned

660
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:01.599
out an accident. But as a
weird appeal because like you just said,

661
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:06.440
Jared says he had nothing to do
with her death. So now they're saying,

662
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:09.239
well, it could have been you
know that she died from a fight,

663
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:14.079
and so it really should be manslaughter. It was essentially what's going to

664
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:16.280
give him the lowest sentence. This
is what he was appealing. Yeah,

665
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:21.639
for sure, legal observers didn't think
this appeal stood a chance in hell,

666
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.360
But when the appellate court eventually came
back with their decision, everyone was done.

667
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:31.239
The court basically overruled the jury's verdict
of murder and replaced it with manslaughter

668
00:49:31.719 --> 00:49:36.639
and the air ruling. They also
stated that Jared had no motive for killing

669
00:49:36.679 --> 00:49:42.599
Allison, which was insane. Jared's
attorneys immediately began preparing for a new sentencing

670
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:46.840
hearing and were planning to argue that
he should be released immediately with time served.

671
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:52.079
The public was outraged with the decision, understandably yeah, even if the

672
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:57.119
media found a bunch of legal talking
heads to say it was a sound decision.

673
00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:01.920
One of the wealthiest men in Queensland, a tech entrepreneur named Bevin Slattery,

674
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:07.159
was disgusted by the decision. His
daughter went to the same dance school

675
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:10.679
as Allison's daughter. He had followed
the trial closely, like most everyone in

676
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:15.159
Queensland, and he wanted to do
something about it. The only recourse that

677
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:21.000
the Crown had was to appeal the
decision to the Queensland State Supreme Court,

678
00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:24.320
and this almost never happened. It
had been eight years since the decision by

679
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:29.519
the Appeals Court had been escalated to
the High Court. To try and convince

680
00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:35.239
the government to take this highly unusual
reaction, Bevan Slattery decided to organize a

681
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:39.159
public rally and ensure the voice of
the people would be heard. The legal

682
00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:44.920
community was up in arms about their
rally, saying cases shouldn't be decided by

683
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:49.760
who yells the loudest. They called
the protesters a quote ill and informed mob

684
00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:53.639
who just didn't understand the legal system, which in turn made the public even

685
00:50:53.679 --> 00:51:00.239
angrier. The rally took place on
December eighteenth, twenty fifteen. Four one

686
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:04.880
thousand people gathered, and a petition
which had been circulated prior to the rally

687
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.880
had more than one hundred and twenty
thousand signatures. The next week, the

688
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:14.840
Director of Public Prosecutions announced he would
indeed appeal the case to the State Supreme

689
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:19.079
Court. On May twelve, twenty
sixteen, the High Court agreed to hear

690
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:23.320
the case, and the hearing took
place in July twenty sixteen. At the

691
00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:28.199
end of August, the High Court
was ready to reveal its decision. Ian

692
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:32.440
Drayton, the guy who Allison had
dumped and favored of Jared way back in

693
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:36.320
the day, heard about it on
TV and decided on the spur of the

694
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:40.440
moment to show up at court to
hear the decision. Allison had never strayed

695
00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:45.840
far from his thoughts. Allison's best
friend, Carrie Anne, also showed up,

696
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:49.920
and when she saw Ian, she
was overcome with emotion, wondering what

697
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:53.440
might have been had Allison made a
different choice. Finally, the ruling was

698
00:51:53.440 --> 00:52:00.159
announced by unanimous decision. The High
Court reinstated Jared's murder conviction, and the

699
00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:05.760
decision was highly critical of the appeals
court decision, saying it was based purely

700
00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:09.239
on speculation and conjecture, and that
the claim that there was no motive for

701
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:14.760
Jared to kill Allison had been an
error. They warned that the legal system

702
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:21.559
should never substitute trial by appeal court
for trial by jury. That was the

703
00:52:21.679 --> 00:52:23.840
end of the line for Jared.
There was nowhere else for him to appeal.

704
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:29.519
The earliest he would be eligible for
parole is twenty twenty seven, but

705
00:52:29.679 --> 00:52:34.000
we predict and hope he will be
in prison for much longer than that.

706
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:37.400
I think it's so crazy that I
know this is true in a lot of

707
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:40.000
other countries in cases we've discussed,
but you get a life sentence and it

708
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:45.239
really just means fifteen years at minimum. I mean, I don't know how

709
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:49.079
the parole system works, but I
really do hope that he has not let

710
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.760
out in twenty twenty seven, because
that just would not be fair that he

711
00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:54.880
would have that much of his life
left to live as a free man.

712
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:01.159
There's one loose end I want to
mention before we You may remember there was

713
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:06.639
a witness the flight attendant who lived
near where Allison's body was eventually found,

714
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:10.280
who had seen two cars driving near
Colo Creek Bridge in the wee morning hours

715
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:15.519
the night that Allison disappeared. One
car had its headlights on and the other

716
00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:19.960
was driving so close behind it as
to be almost touching, and it didn't

717
00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:22.960
have its headlights on. It was
really unusual for her to see any cars

718
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:28.159
out there at that time, So
it makes one wonder if Jared had help,

719
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:30.960
perhaps from his father, with whom
Jared seemed to consult on nearly every

720
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:35.599
decision he made. But the police
have said they looked into this and that

721
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:38.840
nothing came of it. David Murray, the author of the book The Murder

722
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:43.920
of Alison baden Clay, interviewed the
witness. She said that she got a

723
00:53:43.960 --> 00:53:46.519
good look at one of the car's
drivers and believes she knows who it is.

724
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:52.000
But the author won't name the person
on advice of counsel, so I

725
00:53:52.000 --> 00:53:55.199
guess he doesn't want to get sued
for libel. Unfortunately, it looks like

726
00:53:55.239 --> 00:54:00.400
we'll never know whether someone helped Jared
cover up Allison's murder. I found that

727
00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:06.800
little tidbit really intriguing that the witness
said that they recognized the person, which

728
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:09.880
to me indicates that it must be
someone that they had seen on the news,

729
00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:14.960
like after all this came out,
which to me would think, Okay,

730
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:20.800
it's either Jared, or it's his
dad or somebody related to Jared.

731
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:24.679
But again, we'll never know,
and I think the author is probably wise

732
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:30.719
to not say, because it would
be purely you know, hearsaying. I

733
00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:32.800
have a couple questions for you.
We've talked about this a little bit.

734
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:37.920
But do you think that there was
enough evidence to convict Jared of murder or

735
00:54:37.000 --> 00:54:42.199
of manslaughter or neither? Well,
as I said a few minutes ago,

736
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:46.480
I don't know. I mean I
kind of think, no, what do

737
00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:51.440
you think. I didn't know you
were going to turn it around me?

738
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:57.719
I think, sit there and we
don't know all the evidence against well,

739
00:54:57.719 --> 00:55:00.800
to me, the big things the
scratches on his face, that's pretty cure.

740
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:02.760
That's true. There was blood in
the car. We didn't talk about

741
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:06.639
it a lot, but there was
blood in the back of the Captiva,

742
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:10.760
which was tested and determined to be
Allison's blood. And I do think the

743
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:15.679
botanical evidence, the leaves and everything
was pretty compelling as well. So I

744
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:20.239
do think there was at least enough
evidence to convict him of manslaughter. But

745
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:25.000
I do think the difference between manslaughter
and premeditated murder a little bit trickier.

746
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:29.000
To prove that you're right, I
think I would, Yeah, I would.

747
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:31.119
I would vote very guilty. I
think I need to get out of

748
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:36.880
the mindset of circumstantial evidence is circumstantial
evidence, if there's enough of it,

749
00:55:37.639 --> 00:55:42.199
Who else would have done this crime? Right? Not? Yeah. I

750
00:55:42.199 --> 00:55:46.559
think it's ironic also because if Jared
had pleaded guilty to manslaughter, it's likely

751
00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:52.440
that that plea would have been accepted
because the evidence against him for premeditated murder

752
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:55.679
wasn't overwhelming. So I think if
you were the prosecutor that you would have

753
00:55:55.719 --> 00:55:59.599
said, yeah, if you want
to plead guilty to that, we'll we'll

754
00:55:59.599 --> 00:56:02.400
take that, and he would be
out of jail, probably already. My

755
00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:07.440
other question for you, if Jared
hadn't gotten the scratches on his face,

756
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:10.800
do you think that they would have
gotten a conviction. That's a good question.

757
00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:15.239
I hope that he still would have
been convicted. Yeah, I think

758
00:56:15.239 --> 00:56:16.880
it would have been much harder,
though, And I think a lot of

759
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:22.519
people look at that as Alison fought
until the end, and in a way,

760
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:27.519
she was the one who left the
evidence that ended up convicting him.

761
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:30.599
Yeah. I like that, Yeah, I do too. Full circle,

762
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:36.000
And if Jared hadn't been forced to
go back to the police station and be

763
00:56:36.039 --> 00:56:40.679
a photographed for a second and third
time to get the other defensive wounds on

764
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:45.960
his body, would that have made
a difference well, And I mean,

765
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:49.920
just to add onto that too,
if Jared had just refused like he couldn't,

766
00:56:49.960 --> 00:56:52.280
he could have just said no,
I'm not coming in, and it

767
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:55.639
was It's a good thing that he
did agree to go in. I mean,

768
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:59.840
the scratches on his face would have
still been evidence even though they didn't

769
00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:02.800
have photographs, but it would have
just been the detective's word as opposed to

770
00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:07.760
the jury actually seeing these photos,
which I'm sure was very compelling evidence.

771
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:10.199
All right, So I have a
couple of where are they now type of

772
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:15.480
notes. Tony McHugh's life was upended
by all the attention. After the trial,

773
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:21.280
she did some interviews, one where
she said she was Australia's Monica Lewinsky,

774
00:57:21.559 --> 00:57:25.119
which I think is a bizarre comparison
to make. She found herself out

775
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:30.920
of work and relentlessly pursued by the
media. She moved to Bali to teach

776
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:34.119
for a while in twenty fifteen,
and then she started a new life for

777
00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:38.239
herself in the United Arab Emirates,
teaching art classes at an international school.

778
00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:43.079
She has a new name and keeps
out of the spotlight as much as possible.

779
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:47.400
Alison's sister, Vanessa, was the
guiding force behind the creation of the

780
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:53.000
Alison baden Clay Foundation, which aims
to educate the community about family and domestic

781
00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:58.800
violence and empower them to aid in
prevention. Each year, throughout the month

782
00:57:58.840 --> 00:58:04.559
of July, the Allison baden Clay
Foundation launches their Strive to Be Kind campaign,

783
00:58:04.760 --> 00:58:08.760
which aims to raise awareness about family
and domestic violence and encourage people to

784
00:58:08.840 --> 00:58:15.599
practice kindness in their daily lives.
Funds raised from activities hosted by the Alison

785
00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:21.639
baden Clay Foundation go toward the development
of programs that educate the community and provide

786
00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:25.800
them with the tools to help prevent
family and domestic violence. Alison's daughters,

787
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:30.760
Hannah, Sarah, and Ella,
are now roughly twenty two, twenty and

788
00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:36.000
seventeen years old. After Jared's arrest, they were raised by Allison's parents Priscilla

789
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:38.719
and Jeff. In twenty twenty one, for the first time, the three

790
00:58:38.760 --> 00:58:44.599
girls became the public face of the
Strive to Be Kind campaign. In twenty

791
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:49.760
twenty two, Hannah graduated from university
with a dance performance degree, following in

792
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:53.760
her mother's footsteps with her passion for
ballet. I'd like for the final words

793
00:58:53.760 --> 00:58:59.159
of this episode to belong to Alison. Not long after Jared's conviction, a

794
00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:04.119
letter was discus that Alison had written. Ostensibly it was a letter to Jared,

795
00:59:04.239 --> 00:59:07.159
but in many ways it reads more
like a letter to herself, and

796
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:12.320
it's truly heartbreaking. She started writing
it three days after finding out about Jared's

797
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:15.880
affair, and she added to it
various times over the subsequent months. Here

798
00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:21.239
are some excerpts. Three days ago, my husband told me he was having

799
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:24.000
an affair. I get sick just
writing the words and am shaking my head

800
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:28.440
as I cannot believe it. Still
tonight, he has told me it has

801
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:30.400
been going on for more than three
years, and that he lied to my

802
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:35.239
face that it wasn't happening. I
am writing this to try and work it

803
00:59:35.239 --> 00:59:37.360
all out in my head. At
the moment, I am trying to work

804
00:59:37.400 --> 00:59:42.000
out what I've done to deserve it. I just don't know. God,

805
00:59:42.039 --> 00:59:45.360
I just want to be happy one
day. I want just to be happy.

806
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:50.400
I have blamed my depression and subsequent
treatment of Jared as the catalyst for

807
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:53.280
him going elsewhere, But I also
wish that when I was sick that he

808
00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:58.559
had acted sooner. I often think, what if I had cancer? Would

809
00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:01.519
he have stuck by me or opted
the easy way for the easy way out?

810
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:05.960
If I had cancer, he would
have taken me to the right doctors,

811
01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:09.280
etc. But because he didn't believe
that depression was an illness, he

812
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:14.159
just ignored it, and for too
long I needed him to take me by

813
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:16.599
the hand and get help. I
didn't know where I was or what was

814
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:20.880
happening to me, and he keeps
saying, you don't know what it was

815
01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:23.119
like watching you and living with you. Well, no, I didn't,

816
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:27.320
and it was his job to help
me and get help. I was sick

817
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.920
the unfairness of it all. I
get a husband back, who is physically

818
01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:36.559
and emotionally exhausted, the business is
on the brink of bankruptcy, and who

819
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:39.880
is left now to support him and
save the business. Me, the hopeless,

820
01:00:39.880 --> 01:00:44.480
pathetic, fat, smelly wife that
after eleven years, he had enough

821
01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:49.280
of She goes on to write a
list of things of that hurt the most.

822
01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:52.880
It includes things like how long Jared
carried on the affair, the depth

823
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:57.840
of his deceit, and the destruction
of the trust that she thought they had.

824
01:00:58.599 --> 01:01:01.000
Number four on the list is quote, you weren't and never will be

825
01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:05.800
the man I thought you were when
I married you, unquote. For point

826
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:08.880
number five of what hurts the most, she wrote, the effect you have

827
01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:14.079
had on my self esteem and self
image, the complete lack of respect you

828
01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:16.719
had for me, as you stripped
me of any dignity I had. If

829
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:21.239
you still think of me as weak, then I hope that perception has changed,

830
01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:24.119
because, according to the statistics,
there are only a handful of couples

831
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:28.559
that recover after an affair, and
I planned to be one of them.

832
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:35.000
Unquote. Oh boy, it's really
so sad. Uh. The rest in

833
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:38.559
peace, Allison, You've deserved so
much more. I'm glad that at the

834
01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:43.719
end of her life, even though
it was abruptly ended, that she had

835
01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:47.199
the perspective to know that it wasn't
her fault. Yeah, I felt like

836
01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:51.199
that she was. It took her
a while to come to that, but

837
01:01:51.320 --> 01:02:00.400
she was definitely coming to that conclusion
by the end of her life. Something

838
01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:02.599
that I think about a lot.
You know, now we have this true

839
01:02:02.679 --> 01:02:07.599
crime podcast and you and I are
googling like absurd, crazy things all the

840
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:14.119
time. If one of us murdered
the other, would our Google searches exonerate

841
01:02:14.239 --> 01:02:16.760
us, because anything we search like
how do I get rid of a body?

842
01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:22.639
Or you know, would it be
dismissed as oh, they were just

843
01:02:22.679 --> 01:02:28.320
working on their true crime podcast and
maybe not searching for you know, legitimately,

844
01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:30.519
how do I dispose of a body
easily? It's a good question,

845
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:35.000
and I just want to know why
you are asking that question. Well,

846
01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:37.840
I do recommend for every person that
is listening, every woman that is listening,

847
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:43.360
take your husband's phone right now or
your partner's phone and google how do

848
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:46.559
I get rid of a dead body? Terrible advice. I think it's really

849
01:02:46.559 --> 01:02:52.119
good. Like it. I don't
like it at all. Well, we

850
01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:54.119
will never be in that position because
we are very lucky and we have a

851
01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.320
you know, we love each other
very much and we would never harm each

852
01:02:58.360 --> 01:03:04.239
other. Correct. When you did
the episode with our daughter Emma on Mother's

853
01:03:04.320 --> 01:03:07.800
Day, you asked her the question
at the end. It was a would

854
01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:09.920
you rather question that's been going around
about. Yeah, would you rather run

855
01:03:09.960 --> 01:03:14.920
into a bear in the woods or
a man? Which was an interesting discussion.

856
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:17.840
So I came up with some more
would you rather questions? They're not

857
01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:22.360
going to be as thought provoking as
that one, though. Would you rather

858
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:25.679
be surrounded by people who brag all
the time or by people who complain all

859
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:31.719
the time? Complain because I'm one
of them. I really hate when people

860
01:03:31.800 --> 01:03:37.719
are like braggy. I do too. Would you rather so you would answer

861
01:03:37.719 --> 01:03:42.199
the same way? Yeah? I
think I am. I'll complain all the

862
01:03:42.239 --> 01:03:45.519
time. Different, No, different
from my current life. Shut up,

863
01:03:45.519 --> 01:03:49.840
I don't complain that much. Would
you rather have hiccups for the rest of

864
01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:52.000
your life or constantly feel like you
have to sneeze? I thought you were

865
01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:58.760
going to say constipation, Uh sneeze? Yeah, having hiccups all the time

866
01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:03.280
horrible. Would you rather be ugly
but smell amazing or be handsome and beautiful

867
01:04:03.320 --> 01:04:12.480
but stink? I the former,
because that's true life. You're not ugly,

868
01:04:13.039 --> 01:04:15.599
you do? I mean, I
do like sense, you do smell

869
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:20.039
good, as you know. Would
you rather have the answer I'm asking the

870
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:27.360
questions. I guess I would probably
choose to be ugly but smell amazing.

871
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:30.280
It would be it would be bad
to be stinky all the time. I

872
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:33.360
wouldn't like that. Really, you
say that as if you are Would you

873
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:36.920
rather have the brains of a squirrel
but still be human, or have the

874
01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:46.440
brains of a human but be a
squirrel. Oh, that's purely hypothetical.

875
01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:51.480
I don't know if I can answer
that. I guess it would rather be

876
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:55.800
a squirrel and have a brain of
a human. I think I did too.

877
01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:59.519
Yeah, I already have a pretty
small brain. You could probably find

878
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:01.360
ways to have fun if you were
a squirrel but had a human brain.

879
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:05.280
Would you rather know how you're going
to die or when you're going to die?

880
01:05:05.360 --> 01:05:10.400
Oh? God, I don't.
I don't. I don't know.

881
01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:15.320
I'd rather not answer that question.
What about you? I would probably rather

882
01:05:15.400 --> 01:05:18.039
I don't like to dwell on it. No, I don't really either.

883
01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:25.000
I guess i'd probably rather know when
I'm going to die. Yeah, I

884
01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:29.639
don't. I really don't know.
Okay, I guess when when? Okay?

885
01:05:29.880 --> 01:05:31.679
All right, my last question this
is kind of true crime related and

886
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:35.800
it's a little confusing, So follow
me closely here. Would you rather be

887
01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:41.000
on death row for a crime that
you didn't commit and the most important person

888
01:05:41.079 --> 01:05:45.119
in your life is free, but
they committed the crime. Or would you

889
01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:48.199
rather be free but the most important
person in your life is on death row

890
01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:54.079
for a crime you committed? Oh
the former? Oh? Really? Yeah,

891
01:05:54.159 --> 01:06:00.960
i'd well because because if I committed
a crime, obviously I committed the

892
01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:06.559
crime without wanting to get caught.
So I wouldn't be happy that you were.

893
01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:11.440
So you're just saying if you weren't
yourself, because you would never do

894
01:06:11.639 --> 01:06:14.400
that in real life. Yeah,
I mean it's again, it's all very

895
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:20.039
hypothetical, not a real scenario.
Yeah. I wouldn't want anyone to be

896
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:25.440
in jail for a crime I committed. Yeah, would you commit? Well,

897
01:06:25.760 --> 01:06:29.320
I know, I would never know. That's a dumb question. I'm

898
01:06:29.320 --> 01:06:33.000
throwing throw it out, Throw it
out, careful question. Who came up

899
01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:35.360
with these? Did you come up
with these? No? No, I

900
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:40.119
just I just found them. Where
did you find them? Oh? Various

901
01:06:40.360 --> 01:06:44.519
sources on the internet. Well,
thanks everybody for sticking with us. I

902
01:06:44.519 --> 01:06:46.800
hope you found this case as interesting
as I did. And thanks again to

903
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:53.360
Amanda for recommending this case. And
thanks for our Australia listeners. You guys

904
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:58.239
are great. You are great.
Australia is great. One day we will

905
01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:01.880
go day we will get there.
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe,

906
01:07:02.159 --> 01:07:06.679
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907
01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:12.960
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908
01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:16.920
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909
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:21.760
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910
01:07:23.000 --> 01:07:28.480
podcast po box one one one dexter
Michigan for eight one three zero until next

911
01:07:28.480 --> 01:08:03.119
time. Don't kill your husband and
don't kill your wife. Compat