April 14, 2025

Amy and Stephen Allwine

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Amy and Stephen Allwine were a happy, devout Christian couple living in Cottage Grove, Minnesota. Amy was a successful dog trainer; Stephen, a church elder and IT specialist. Shockingly, in 2016 the FBI came to Amy and warned her that someone had tried to hire a hitman to kill her through a dark web site called Besa Mafia. Who could possibly wish this wonderful, kind woman dead? Months later when Amy was found dead in the couple’s home from a single gunshot wound, it appeared to be a suicide. But the crime scene raised questions.As investigators dug deeper, troubling details emerged—betrayal, secrets, a double life and a twisted version of faith.

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Today's snacks: Entenmann's Fudge Iced Golden Cake and Mini Crumb Cake (thanks Anne!), also Pop'ums

Sources:

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Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. And if there's one

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thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's.

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That some days you'll feel like killing your.

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Wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina.

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How are you?

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I'm doing good? How are you today?

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I'm good, I'm good. Today is the season finale of

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White Lotus. Oh, yes, and normally we watched a couple

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of days later, but we've all agreed that we're going

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to stay up and watch it tonight.

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Yeah, because it's going to be hard not to hear

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any spoilers. That show has been like everywhere, I feel.

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Like wildfire, and it's been fun. I think as a

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society we have less collective experiences. Yeah, and with a

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successions Severance and White Lotus, it seems like people are

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really loving.

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The same thing, like you. Those two shows seem to

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have like really latched on to everybody's consciousness.

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So apparently we're not the only ones that want to

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pay for every single streaming service available we have. It's

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ridiculous how much we're paying for and we still have

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cable because we're dinosaurs. Yeah, but actually well, we are dinosaurs,

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but it's for sports mostly, right, Yeah, yeah, but any

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do you have any predictions for.

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The White Lotus finale. I don't know. I think everyone

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is saying that Chelsea.

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That is yeah, she has Amy.

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Lewwood's character that she is going to get.

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She's so great.

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Yeah, she is awesome.

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Season has been. It's just great and I want to

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kind of like rewatch it because you're so focused on

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the story that I think you miss a lot of

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the cinematography and the music and kind of the hints

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and the clue. So if you haven't watched White Lotus,

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it is.

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Really really well done. Well what is your prediction, Oh,

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people will be listening to this after it's over.

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Yeah, I mean, I hate to give any spoilers, just

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fast forward, you know, ten seconds ahead. I had heard

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like this season is about threes, and that kind of

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made sense, like it's possible that three people could possibly die,

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like and Chelsea keeps saying like bad things happen in threes,

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so possibly something like that. I don't know, but I've

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heard that Mike White may have written it like in

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a after a fever dream or something, and he stayed

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true to whatever happened in his fever dream.

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M Okay, well, anyway, unexpected that, right, So.

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I did bring you a snack that one of our

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sweety pie listeners sent us.

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Sweetie sweety pie listener.

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They're else. They're all sweety pies. I just love them

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all so much. But this comes from our friend Ann

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from port Chester, New York. Gonna you're gonna like these,

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I'm gonna be pretty excited. She sent us a couple

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of different things from Intimates, oh excellent or Intimates. I

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think it's Intimates.

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Yeah, there's like an en in there.

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But yeah there's an but I don't know if you

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say it.

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I don't know either, but I don't care. They taste

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really good. So what did she send us?

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These little like twinkie like things with like this big

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honk of chocolate on the top and crumb cakes. I

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mean these these are good good stuff. Yeah, try real quick.

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I sure did.

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The two things that you sampled are fudge iced golden

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cakes and many crumb cakes.

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Okay, so what do you raise all the both delicious?

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Yeah, they're really me What would you rate the golden

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cakes the twinkie like things?

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I would give it a nine out of ten, only

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because I wish it had filling.

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And I agree with you one hundred percent. I thought

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the exact same thing, because you just because it's such

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like a Twinkie like consistency.

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I think it's your fault because you said it's like

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a Twinkie and I thought, Okay, it's like a Twinkie.

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That means there's going to be filling. But it was

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still very good.

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Yeah, very good. And what do you rate the mini

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crumb case.

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I'm going to give that a ton out of ten.

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That was really good.

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I think. I think Anne thought that we didn't have

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Intimin's here, but we do, and it's kind of something

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that we didn't have growing up very often, but when

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we did, it was, you know, kind of like a

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special occasion. They have donuts and coffee cakes, and I

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think they have chocolate chip cookies, but it's kind of

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very close to homemade I think. I mean, they're definitely processed,

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but they taste. I think they're much better than like

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a Little Debbie I would say, yeah, I think so,

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no offense to a Little Debbie, because she does a

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lot of great things over there in her bakery too.

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But they are a little more authentic.

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Maybe yeah, they taste a little fresher. I think, well,

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thank you so much, and we really appreciate Yeah.

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Thanks Ann Well, I have.

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Got a pretty incredible case to tell you about today.

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Our listener Amanda recommended this case, and I was working

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on a different case that our writer, researcher Owen did

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for us that I should have been presenting. But when

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a listener recommends a case, I usually try to give

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it a quick Google just so before I put it

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in our document, just so I get an idea of

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what it was. And I just started researching this case,

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and before I knew it, I had three thousand words

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of notes and it's just a really interesting case. So

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thank you Amanda for recommending this case, and thank you

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to everyone that's recommended a case. You guys always recommend

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the best cases to us. Sunday, November thirteenth, twenty sixteen,

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started quietly in the all Wine home. The family, as usual,

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had spent the entire day at church on Saturday. It

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was part of the routine Saturday services faith structure. From

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the outside, they look like the picture perfect good Christian family.

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That evening, Stephen and their ten year old son Joe

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had dinner at Culver's, like they did on most Sundays,

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while Amy held her dog training class. I always forget

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that we have a lot of people that listen to

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us internationally. Tell us what Culver's is really quickly.

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I mean it's it's kind of fast food, but it's

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a little step up above. But it's burgers and milkshakes.

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Do you even have like pot roast? I think on that.

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Yeah, they have kind of some more like home cooking

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tight stuff there, but they may be good.

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What are their blizzard like things called.

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Called concrete mixers. So yeah, it's like custard with candy

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mixed stamps.

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Yeah, colors. It's good, It's really good. It's yeah, it's uh,

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it feels like you're eating you're still eating fast food,

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but like you said, it's just a higher quality. When

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they returned home around seven thirty pm, Joe ran into

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the house looking for Amy. As he walked down the

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hallway toward the primary bedroom, he was confused by what

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he saw. Amy was lying in the doorway of her bedroom.

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In an instant, everything changed and Joe's life was turned

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upside down. Amy Allwine, forty three, was lying on the floor,

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half in and half out of the doorway, her eyes

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open and her pants un zipped. She wasn't moving. Joe

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called out for his father, Yeah, why is mom sleeping

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on the floor. Stephen rushed to his son's side. Blood

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pulled beneath Amy's head, soaking the carpet. There was a

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gun on the floor near the crook of Amy's left arm,

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but Amy was right handed. It was a small detail,

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easy to miss, but in time it would unravel every thing.

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Stephen called nine to one one. Just six months earlier,

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on May thirty first, the FBI had come to Amy's

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door with a warning someone was trying to hire a

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hitman to kill her on the dark Web. She couldn't

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imagine who would want her dead, but now she was.

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And the threat hadn't come from some shadowy figure online.

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It had been inside the house all along.

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It's really scary having the FBI come to your door

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and tell you a hit man is trying to punt

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you down.

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And she's a very nice, just middle aged mom, just

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going about her life, and yeah, she has this shocking threat. Wow,

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do you know much about the dark Web?

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I sure don't. I mean, I know what it is.

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And if you've never visited the door.

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I've never been on the dark Web.

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I have not either, and I was tempted to for

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this case, but I still have not. The dark web

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has called that for a reason. It's where the underbelly

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of society exists, a hotbed of a legal activity, some

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of it seriously disgusting and disturbing and impossible to be policed,

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a digital wild wild West, the Internet's evil twin. The

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origins of the dark Web can be traced back to

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the late twentieth century, born not from crime or conspiracy,

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but from the government's desire for secrecy. In the nineteen nineties,

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researchers at the US Naval Research Laboratory developed a technology

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called the Onion Routing or TOR tour for short. It

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was designed to protect classified communications by making them anonymous

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and untraceable as they traveled across the Internet. It's not

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easily accessible to the average Internet user. You need to

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download special software called Tour to access it, and it's

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not indexed by Google, Being or Yahoo, making it challenging

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to use. TOR anonymizes users by routing their Internet traffic

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through multiple servers worldwide, making it difficult to track their

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identities or locations. The dark Web uses its own search

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engines called hidden wiki or grams. The dark Web is

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largely used for illegal and illicit activity, often used as

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a marketplace to buy weapons, drugs, and stolen identities, hire

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a hitman or hacker, or to view pornography, snuff films,

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and live torture anonymously. Despite its reputation, not everything on

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the Dark Web is illicit. Whistle Blowers, journalists and activists,

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and oppressive regimes use it to communicate securely and share

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censored information.

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Well, like I said, I knew a little bit about

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the Dark Web, but not a whole lot. So that's

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even I'm even more terrified about it now that you've

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explained a little bit more.

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Yeah, me too. It just sounds very scary, and you know,

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like I said, so many illegal activities occur there, and

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a lot of not so great people, I think, yeah,

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are hanging out on the dark Web, But not everyone

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who goes to the dark Web, you know, is a person.

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But sure a lot of bad things happen there, especially

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when it comes to victimization and.

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Human trafficking and things like that. Yeah, it's really really horrible.

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Amy Louise Zotz was born on December tenth, nineteen seventy two,

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in Woodbury, Minnesota, to devout Christian fundamentalist parents who were

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members of the Worldwide Church of God. Amy grew up

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with an older sister and a younger brother in a

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household where faith dictated every aspect of their lives. Although

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Amy and her siblings attended public school in Woodbury, they

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were not permitted to socialize or participate in extracurricular activities

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outside of their church community. Within the Worldwide Church of God,

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Amy thrived. While her public school classmates found her a

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little unusual, she was well liked among her church peers.

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She was a cheerleader for the Worldwide Church of God

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basketball team and frequently had sleepovers with her two best friends.

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After the death of the church's founder, Herbert Armstrong in

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nineteen eighty six, the Worldwide Church of God leadership moved

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away from his teachings and embraced mainstream Protestant theology, leading

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to a schism in the church, resulting in the formation

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of several splinter groups. Amy and her family joined the

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group United Church of God, which retained many of Armstrong's

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founding beliefs. The church shares much with Seventh Day Adventists.

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They observed Saturday as the Sabbath, a day of rest

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and worship based on the biblical account of God resting

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on the seventh day of creation. The church shares some

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beliefs with Jehovah's witnesses, particularly in its rejection of certain

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mainstream Christian traditions. The Worldwide Church of God views Christmas

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and Easter as pagan holidays and does not observe them.

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Members of the church were tightly bound and not permitted

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to marry outside of their faith. In nineteen ninety, Amy

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moved to Big Sandy, Texas to attend the now defunct

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Ambassador College, which was run by the Worldwide Church of God.

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The motto of the college was recapturing true Values. While

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at the college, Amy met Stephen Alwine while working in

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the IT department together. Stephen was born in March nineteen

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seventy three in Spokane, Washington. He had a large circle

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of friends from his church at the college, and soon

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Amy was befriended by the group, and she and Stephen

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began dating. Amy and Stephen both enjoyed dancing and attending

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church social events. We don't know a lot about Stephen's background,

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but we don't really need to know much about Stephen.

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In the summer of nineteen ninety six, Amy and Stephen

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were married. They moved to Saint Paul, Minnesota, to be

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closer to Amy's family. The couple spent every Friday night

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at Amy's parents house for family dinner. Amy always brought

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desrt which was frequently her mother's favorite strawberry pie. On Saturdays,

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the all Wines typically spent the entire day at church.

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Amy and her family believed in spreading the Word of

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God and often traveled to other countries as missionaries. In

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nineteen ninety nine, Amy went to Ukraine on a medical mission,

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assisting doctors and dentists with their work. Amy worked as

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a dog trainer and Stephen worked as an it expert.

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The all Wines settled in Cottage Grove and bought twenty

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eight acres of land that backed up to a nature preserve.

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They erected a prefabricated house on their lot in hopes

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of later building their dream house. Cottage Grove is a

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growing sun located about ten miles southeast of Saint Paul

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within the Twin Cities metro area. It offers a nice

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balance between suburban living and easy access to big city amenities.

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The community is known for being family friendly, with safe neighborhoods,

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good schools, and a strong sense of community. There are

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over thirty parks and more than one hundred miles of trails,

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making at a great place for outdoor activities. Popular spots

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like Cottage Grove, Ravine Regional Park, and River Oaks Golf

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Course are local favorites. While many residents commute to jobs

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in nearby cities, The local economy includes opportunities in healthcare, education, manufacturing,

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and technology. Originally settled in the mid eighteen hundreds, Cottage

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Grove has kept its small town charm while continuing to grow.

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The population is currently around forty one thousand and steadily

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increasing as more people discover all the city has to offer.

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Sounds like a lovely place, you know.

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I've never been to Minnesota, but it just sounds like

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it's a lovely place to live.

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It really does. I've been to the Minneapolis Airport many times,

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but I've never been outside of the airport.

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On Amy and Stephen's property, there was a large barn

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four times the size of their house, which the all

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Lines renovated to accommodate the needs of Amy's growing dog

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training business, Active Dog Sports Training LLC. Amy and Stephen

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had two dogs, a Newfoundland named Oolson and an Australian

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shepherd named George. Stephen didn't care much for the dogs

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and wasn't involved in Amy's business. Stephen was known for

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his intelligence and technical skills. He installed solar panels on

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the roof of their home and transformed their basement into

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a fully equipped home office, allowing him to work remotely.

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He's an it guy known for his intelligence and technical skills.

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So somebody who might know how to navigate the dark web.

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Maybe, why are you always trying to put the car

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before the horse?

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I'm sorry.

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In two thousand and six, Amy and Stephen both became

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church deacons. They were very young to hold this honor,

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but it was indicative of their dedication to the church.

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Steven continued to rise in the church ranks and became

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a church elder. As a church elder, he counseled married couples,

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wrote and presented sermons, sometimes traveling to other churches. Divorce

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was not acceptable in the church. Couples were expected to

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work out their differences and stay together and their spare time.

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Amy and Stephen loved to dance. They created their own website,

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all wine dot net that demonstrated church approved songs and

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dances with limited physical contact. Songs with curse words, inappropriate themes,

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or love between unmarried people were forbidden. They carefully listened

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to and interpreted song lyrics before adding them to their list.

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I saw some videos of Stephen and Amy dancing together,

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and it's not quite as use it sounds. Yeah, I mean,

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they looked like they were having a good time. Unable

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to conceive a child naturally, Amy and Stephen adopted a

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baby boy they named Joe in October two thousand and seven,

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when he was just two days old. It was an

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open adoption adoption. It's probably different in different circumstances, but

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I think it allows for communication between the biological parents

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and the adoptive parents. Oh okay, I don't think they

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necessarily have visitation, but I think they get sent pictures.

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Okay, so it's not like secretive of who the parents

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are or anything like that.

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Amy had a deep love for animals, especially dogs, and

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a natural talent for working with them. Her kind heart,

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positive spirit, and natural talent with both dogs and people

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quickly set her apart in the world of dog training.

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Through hard work and genuine warmth, she became a respective

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leader in her field and her business flourished. Known for

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her sunny disposition, generosity, and bright smile, Amy brought light

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to everyone around her. She saw the best in people

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and never passed judgment. Her passion for dogs led her

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to the world of agility competitions, where she quickly became

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a beloved and enthusiastic member of the community. Amy's Australian

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shepherd excelled in competitions, which earned her admiration and respect,

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and prompted others to seek her expertise in training their

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own dogs. As her reputation grew, Amy decided to turn

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her past into a business and founded Active Dog Sports

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Training to share her knowledge and skills with others. As

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much as Amy loved agility training and competing, she knew

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the intensity wasn't for everyone. She never pressured anyone to

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join the team. When nosework became the newest dog trend,

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Amy quickly rose to the top of the sport. It

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was a good alternative for dogs and owners who wanted

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to compete in canine sports but lacked the energy or

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mechanics of intense agility competitions. A former friend and client

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said quote, she could bring out the best in all

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of us. We'd make crazy mistakes with our dogs, and

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she'd find some funny way for us to learn about

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ourselves and us as a team. She was great.

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It's maybe a dumb question, but you said that nosework

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was a new trend.

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There are no those dumb questions. It's a sport in

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which your dog tries to identify assent with only their nose.

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While it can be just a recreational game, it's also

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a competitive sport in which many dog owners participate. Nosework

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requires mind training for scent identification.

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Interesting.

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I have such fond memories of going We used to

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go to the Howell Balloon Fest every year and we

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would see the rock and roll canines. Yeah, and that

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was one of our favorite things to do every summer.

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We haven't seen them in a few years.

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Yeah, they have like the big obstacle cords and the

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dogs would compete and.

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Run around amazing. So I think this would be a

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really fun job and just really rewarding. And you know,

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people who love dogs are great people. And as you

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can tell, like you know, we always try to pay

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homage to our victims and describe them, you know, as

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good people. But Amy was really a wonderful woman. Yeah,

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and very kind and generous, and everyone loved Amy. Amy's

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priorities were church, family, and dogs, in that order. To

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those who knew them, Amy and Stephen seemed like a

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rock solid couple. They were affectionate, supportive, and genuinely happy.

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Members of their church looked up to them well. Stephen

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didn't share Amy's deep love for dogs. They each pursued

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their own passions with mutual respect. But beneath the surface

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of their seemingly perfect marriage, something wasn't quite right.

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On the morning of May thirty first, twenty sixteen, in

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Cottage Grove, Minnesota, two men arrived quietly at the home

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of the all Wines. One was Asher Silky, an FBI

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agent from the Minneapolis Field office. The other police Detective

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Terry Raymond, Cottage Grove's designated computer forensics specialist. They knocked

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on the front door of the modest home and asked

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to speak with Amy Alwine. Her husband Stephen answered. He

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was calm, polite, if not socially awkward. He told them

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that Amy wasn't home. The agents didn't press. They simply

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asked that she come to the station as soon as possible.

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No urgency in their tone, no explanation, just a request.

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Is everything okay? Stephen seemed concerned. Now is Amy in trouble? No,

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we just have an important matter to discuss with her.

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The FBI agent replied.

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If an FBI agent knocked on your front door, don't

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you think you.

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Would I would be freaking out completely.

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And you would be like Tina's upstairs, go get her.

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Yes. What no one outside law enforcement knew at that

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moment was this. The FBI had uncovered something deeply disturbing,

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something that suggested Amy's life might be in danger. A

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secret investigation was already underway and time was running out.

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When Amy and Stephen went to the police station, they

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took Amy into a private room. What they told her

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next would change everything. Someone, they said, was trying to

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have her killed. Her photo her face was posted on

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a dark website called Besa Mafia, a shadowy marketplace allegedly

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run by the Albanian mob. It was a place where

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people could put a price on someone's life, where you

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00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.880
didn't just imagine revenge, you could buy it. And Amy's

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name was there. The post had gone up months earlier,

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on February fourteenth, twenty sixteen, Valentine's Day, while most people

403
00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:58.960
were celebrating love, someone using the name dog Day God

404
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.799
was plotting a murder. They uploaded Amy's photo and left

405
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chilling instructions make it look like an accident. Amy sat

406
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there and stunned silence. She couldn't think, couldn't speak. She

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had no idea who would want her dead or why,

408
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but someone out there did, and they were serious and unrelenting.

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Amy was certain she didn't have any enemies, at least

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that's what she told herself, but after hearing someone wanted

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her dead, doubts started to creep in. She replayed every interaction,

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every relationship, every offhand comment, scrolling through her brain for

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something she might have missed, someone she might have overlooked.

414
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.079
Who would do this to her and why. The FBI

415
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pressed her to make a list anyone in her life

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who might bear a grudge, clients, colleagues, friends, anyone. It

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felt impossible, but eventually Amy gave them a few names.

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The FBI's best guess was that someone was after Amy's business,

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jealous of her success and the connections that she so

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easily made reuctantly. She included her best friend Sharon, then

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fellow dog trainers Gail and Kristen, people she trusted, people

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who were part of her everyday life. One person not

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on Amy's list or the FBI's radar was her loving husband, Stephen.

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Seems a little surprising to me that the FBI would

425
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not consider her husband a suspect in this. I agree

426
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.039
the idea that one of these people might be plotting

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her murder. It was unthinkable out of everyone. Both Amy

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and her husband Stephen thought the signs seemed to point

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most toward Kristin. She had helped Amy set up her

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computer network and manage her online presence. She also looked

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after the all Wines dogs whenever they were out of town,

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and her child would sometimes play with the Allwines son.

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But when the FBI interviewed Sharon, Gail, and Kristin, none

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of them seemed to have any reason to want Amy harmed.

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00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:53.720
It truly didn't seem like Amy had any enemies. Still,

436
00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.839
the anonymous online figure known as dog day God claimed otherwise,

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saying Amy had stolen clients, had an affair with her husband,

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and destroyed her life. Amy was stunned. She had never

439
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.160
had an affair, and she wasn't the type to compete

440
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with other trainers for business and cheating. That simply wasn't

441
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part of who she was, especially not with her religious beliefs.

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The law enforcement agents recommended that the all Wines install

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a security system and surveillance cameras, which they did. In June,

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Stephen applied for a permit to purchase a handgun as

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well as a concealed carry permit. In August, he bought

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a Springfield nine millimeter handgun. They went to a shooting

447
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range to practice with the gun. Amy and Stephen decided

448
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to keep the murder plot to themselves. Amy didn't even

449
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tell her parents, who she was extremely close to. Amy

450
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slept with the handgun under her mattress and Stephen slept

451
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with a shotgun on his side of the bed. We'll

452
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be back after a break. In December twenty fifteen, a

453
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mysterious website called called Basa Mafia appeared on the Dark Web,

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claiming to be a murder for hire service. Basa Mafia,

455
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run by a shadowy figure named Eura, worked differently than

456
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:12.519
other marketplaces on the Dark Web. If you were looking

457
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.279
to have someone killed, you'd post the job and Basa

458
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.519
Mafia would find the best operative based on skill and

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location to complete the job. Basa Mafia acted as an

460
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intermediary and held payment in escrow until the job was complete.

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They claimed to have operatives worldwide. Bas of Mafia was

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different from a lot of hit men's sites. Their reputation

463
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:36.839
was based on completed work and satisfied patrons. It advertised

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00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.079
itself as a global network of professional hit men ready

465
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to take out targets in exchange for cryptocurrency, usually bitcoin.

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It operated through the tour network and marketed itself with

467
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an eerie sense of legitimacy with testimonials from clients. Quote,

468
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:54.440
this was the third time my husband cheated on me.

469
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I got tired of his beating and threats. Thank you

470
00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:01.000
Basa Mafia for the perfect opportunity and smooth murder. It

471
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:03.279
was all made to look like an accident and now

472
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I don't have to be afraid ever again. He was

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threatening that he would kill me if I submitted divorce papers.

474
00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:13.200
Now he is the one who is dead, signed happy woman. Wow.

475
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:16.720
I don't know whether to laugh or get no terrified

476
00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:20.000
about that whole thing. Yeah, the site looked like something

477
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:22.720
out of a thriller movie. The header said quote, if

478
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:24.839
you want to kill someone or beat the shit out

479
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:28.200
of him, we are the right guys. Users could browse

480
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.559
options for hiring someone to carry out violent acts, anything

481
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:35.400
from arson to beatings, even murder. Payments were requested in

482
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:39.480
bitcoin to make tracing transactions harder. The name Basa comes

483
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.200
from an Albanian word meaning oath or honor, likely an

484
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.680
attempt to give the site a mafia like aura of

485
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:50.160
loyalty and secrecy to build trust with potential clients. Base

486
00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:54.319
of Mafia published reviews and success stories across the dark web.

487
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.079
They even offered a way for users to make money

488
00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:59.799
by submitting tips on potential targets.

489
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:04.319
And people wonder why we don't post pictures of ourselves online?

490
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:08.759
Yeah, dog day God wrote to Eura, quote, they say

491
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:12.039
that besa means trust, so please don't break that for

492
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.160
reasons that are too personal and would give away my identity.

493
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.279
I need this bitch dead. This bitch has torn my

494
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:21.880
family apart by sleeping with my husband. She is about

495
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.920
five foot six and she looks about two hundred pounds.

496
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:28.960
Dog Day God continued by providing Amy's travel schedule and

497
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:32.200
vehicle information. The best time to kill her, dog Day

498
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.640
God explained was during an upcoming trip to Moline, Illinois

499
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.000
for an agility competition. Dog Day God asked how to

500
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:43.079
submit payment anonymously. Eura said to pay in bitcoin and

501
00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:48.000
recommended using local bitcoins dot com or coinbase dot com.

502
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:51.359
Eura would hold payment until the job was finished. The

503
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:54.079
price for the hit was ten thousand dollars, but after

504
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:57.680
some haggling, they agreed on six thousand dollars. The hit

505
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.680
man would run into Amy with a rental car. Dog

506
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.119
Day God requested that the killer hit Amy on the

507
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:06.240
driver's side to ensure a greater impact that would more

508
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:09.279
likely result in her death. Dog Day God said Amy

509
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:11.559
would have a traveling companion with her, and it was

510
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.079
okay if they were also killed. Ura instructed dog Day

511
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.839
God to be sure they created an alibi for themselves.

512
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:20.960
That day, were surrounded by people and were seen on

513
00:27:21.000 --> 00:27:25.359
surveillance cameras far away from Amy. Dog Day God submitted

514
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:27.960
the bitcoin payment, but on the day of the planned

515
00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.839
hit March twentieth, twenty sixteen, the hit man balked and

516
00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:35.160
didn't show up. Bas A Mafia cautioned their customers that

517
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.200
the hit men they used were often criminals and gang members,

518
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:41.359
and sometimes weren't reliable. Who would have thought that a

519
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.039
hit end wouldn't always be reliable? Please notice eighty percent

520
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:47.200
of our hit men are gang gang members who do

521
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:51.799
drug dealing, beatings, and occasional murder. Eura suggested dog Day

522
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.160
God hire a more skilled, dependable hit man, an ex

523
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:59.440
military chechen sniper. For an additional six thousand dollars, they

524
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.720
would go to Amy's home to kill her, and that

525
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:05.279
would likely have a better outcome. Furthermore, for an additional

526
00:28:05.319 --> 00:28:08.000
two thousand dollars, the hit man would also burn down

527
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:12.039
the house, destroying any evidence. Dog Day God agreed the

528
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:15.039
latter would be the best approach. Dog Day God had

529
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:18.119
one request. I asked that you only get her and

530
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.119
not the dad or kid. But the planned day came

531
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.680
and went and Amy was still alive. They arranged another

532
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:28.880
date that too came and went, with Amy still alive

533
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.599
and untouched. Dog Day God was growing impatient and sent

534
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:36.000
you another message. I realized that things happen, but this

535
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.119
bitch has torn my family apart by sleeping with my husband,

536
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.759
who then left me, and is stealing clients from my business.

537
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:45.039
I have had to continue to act like a friend

538
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:47.839
to get information, and I cannot do it anymore. I

539
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:49.640
have gone out of my way to try and get

540
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.359
you good information. I feel that I am at risk

541
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:55.200
of being suspected if I ask too many more questions.

542
00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:57.599
You have had three good attempts at her, and none

543
00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:00.000
of them have worked. I like the idea of shoes

544
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:01.960
hoting and fire because I think it would look like

545
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.039
a robbery and a cover up. But I'm at the

546
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:06.279
point that I do not care how it's done. I

547
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:08.680
believe that if I go about my regular routine that

548
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.039
I will not be a suspect. If it's not done

549
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:13.599
in some way by May first, then I would like

550
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.279
my money back. Does that sound like enough time for you?

551
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:18.880
I cannot get my hopes built up again like I

552
00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.079
did this weekend. I don't care about date or method.

553
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:24.839
You have her picture and address, so you can tell

554
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:27.039
her or do whatever you need to do to get

555
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.400
the job done. I do know that she is going

556
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:31.720
to take a trip to Atlanta the weekend of April

557
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:34.400
seventh through tenth, but I do not know the details.

558
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:37.079
I also was passing by recently when they had the

559
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.599
garage door open, and I was able to see that

560
00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:42.880
they have three five gallon gas cans just outside the

561
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:45.480
door from the house to the garage, and what looked

562
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.079
like a propane tank as well. I'm not sure if

563
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:50.599
any of them are full, but they are there. Thanks

564
00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:52.440
for your help with this. I need her out of

565
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.359
my life so I can move on. You're a sympathized quote.

566
00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:58.880
I am really sorry to hear what she did. Yes,

567
00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:01.400
she really is a bit and she deserved to die.

568
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:03.960
There was a link a little bit of a language barrier.

569
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:06.480
I think Ura did a pretty good job. Sometimes some

570
00:30:06.519 --> 00:30:09.160
of the communications are a little broken English.

571
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.920
Yeah. On May first, dog Day God offered another twenty

572
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:16.160
five thousand dollars if the hit could be expedited. Dog

573
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:18.720
Day God even took to Reddit and wrote a negative

574
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.839
review of Besa Mafia. Urra replied with a terse message

575
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.160
and demanded the review be deleted, but promised it would

576
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:29.559
be done soon. But when May twentieth rolled around and

577
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:32.640
Amy was still alive, dog Day God was finished with

578
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.799
Basa Mafia and demanded a full refund. That's it. Your

579
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:39.960
local guys suck. They cannot do simple things even when

580
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:42.640
given plenty of time. I will try again later with

581
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:44.880
one of your pros, but I would need to save

582
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:46.960
up for that. Can you give me a quote of

583
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.920
what I would need to work with a pro and

584
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:50.759
then I will try to get a new order worked

585
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:54.279
up in a couple months. Until then, please refund my money.

586
00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:56.599
I know this is serious business we're talking about, but

587
00:30:56.680 --> 00:30:58.240
this whole exchange.

588
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.440
Is just so it's ridicious, Like who do they think

589
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:05.440
they're dealing with? Costco? Like, we well, give me no

590
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:07.279
questions asked, we give you a refund.

591
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:10.039
We had to refund you were a responded that the

592
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.440
site had been hacked and unless they sent another ten Bitcoin,

593
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:16.359
which was about seven thousand dollars at that time, they

594
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:19.160
would release the one hundred and forty messages between them

595
00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:22.960
and EURA to the FBI. There was no further communications

596
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.440
between EURA and dog Day God. It wasn't long before

597
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.640
the FBI got involved, and what they uncovered was both

598
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:33.000
a relief and a twist. Base of Mafia was a scam.

599
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:36.759
They didn't employ real hitmen, They never intended to kill Amy.

600
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:40.480
The entire operation was a dark web con designed to

601
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:44.559
exploit desperation and greed. But that didn't mean Amy was safe.

602
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.920
That makes me feel a little better that that is

603
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:48.759
a scam. I'm sure there are other sites where you

604
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:51.440
can do that sort of thing. But still, whoever was

605
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:54.200
behind the screen name dog Day God had paid over

606
00:31:54.279 --> 00:31:58.119
thirteen thousand dollars to have her killed. Money was gone

607
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:01.720
stolen by a cyber criminal aimed Eura, who never planned

608
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:04.960
to deliver. And while Amy's life hadn't been taken, her

609
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:08.720
sense of security had As for dog Day God, they

610
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:13.240
were confident, cocky even they thought they'd erase their digital footprints,

611
00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:15.920
thought they were untouchable. They were wrong.

612
00:32:16.519 --> 00:32:20.039
Behind a slick interface and criminal branding of bass A Mafia,

613
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:24.559
the reality was far less cinematic. There's no confirmed evidence

614
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.799
that any of the requested crimes were ever actually carried out.

615
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:30.480
In many cases, people who tried to use the site

616
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.000
were either ghosted after paying or blackmailed with their own messages.

617
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:38.079
Things fell apart in twenty sixteen when a major data

618
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:42.279
breach exposed base of Mafia's inner workings. Hackers released a

619
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:47.160
trow of internal messages, bitcoin transaction logs, and user records.

620
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.359
These leaks showed conversations between clients and site admins discussing

621
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.480
planned crimes, giving law enforcement agencies a gold mine of leads.

622
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:59.720
As a result, several people who tried to hire criminals

623
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.880
through that site were arrested. The downfall of bas A

624
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:05.839
Mafia served as a warning the dark web is full

625
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.279
of scams that prey on people looking for illegal services.

626
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.240
It also showed that digital breadcrumbs, even anonymous ones, can

627
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:18.599
be traced, especially with tools like cryptocurrency tracking and data analysis.

628
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:22.559
While bas A Mafia is long gone, similar websites continue

629
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.519
to pop up on the dark web. Some are scams

630
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:29.599
like bas A Mafia, Others maybe law enforcement sting operations

631
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:34.039
waiting to catch would be criminals in the act. After

632
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.480
bas A Mafia was exposed, Eura allegedly went on to

633
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:42.400
launch several other lookalike Hitman for Higher sites, including Camora Hitmen,

634
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:47.240
Kosa Nostra International, and Hitman Network, all of which turned

635
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:50.640
out to be scams as well. While Euro's real identity

636
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:54.920
remains a mystery, some cybersecurity experts believe they might be

637
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:59.240
from Eastern Europe, possibly Albania or Romania, based on their

638
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:03.240
writing style. There's even speculation that Era wasn't one person

639
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:06.240
at all, but a group working under the same name.

640
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:11.079
Despite Eur never being formally identified or arrested. Law enforcement

641
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:15.159
agencies like the FBI and Europool have used leaked data

642
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:18.639
from Bassa Mafia to investigate and arrest people who tried

643
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:21.239
to hire criminals through the site. The case stands as

644
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.360
a reminder that even in the anonymous corners of the Internet,

645
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:27.679
there are ways for investigators to track down cyber criminals

646
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:31.719
and those who hire them. Even now, euroscams or copycats

647
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:35.000
inspired by them continue to surface across the dark Web,

648
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:37.920
proving the hitman for hire fraud remains one of the

649
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:42.760
more disturbing trends in cybercrime. After the FBI suggested that

650
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.719
the all Wines install a security system, they set up

651
00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:49.679
multiple motion activated cameras around their property. However, the camera

652
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:51.960
on the back of their home where the dogs went

653
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.880
in and out of the house, was never activated, and

654
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.320
as time passed without incident, the all Wines became lax

655
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.440
about setting the alarm. But in June, Amy called the

656
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:05.119
police after noticing an unfamiliar blue van parked outside of

657
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.760
their house. It was a false alarm. It was just

658
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:10.760
someone parked who was visiting the park near their property,

659
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:15.239
but it just showed that Amy was still on high alert.

660
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:16.840
Oh I can imagine you would be.

661
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:21.199
On July twenty fourth, twenty sixteen, Amy received an untraceable

662
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:25.599
email from Jane Doe at rediffmail dot com from the

663
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:29.880
dark web. Rediff I believe is based in India. Quote, Amy,

664
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.480
I still blame you for my life falling apart. I

665
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:35.000
don't know how a fat bitch like you got my husband,

666
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:37.519
but because of you, he left and my life has

667
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:40.480
become shit. I'm sending you this email because it looks

668
00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:43.079
like you already know about me. I see you put

669
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:45.760
up a security system now and are being informed by

670
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:48.639
people on the Internet that people were snooping around my

671
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:52.280
earlier emails. I have been assured the emails are untraceable

672
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:54.880
and they won't find me, but I cannot attack you

673
00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:58.599
directly without them watching. Here's what's going to happen. Since

674
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:01.280
I cannot get to you, I will go after everything

675
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.320
else that you love. I know about your son, your husband,

676
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:07.320
and your business. And thanks to the Internet, I see

677
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:09.559
you have a father and a mother in Woodbury, a

678
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:13.159
brother in Saint Paul, and a sister in Yardley, Pennsylvania.

679
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:16.159
I have been busy researching topics on the Internet, and

680
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:18.360
I've found that if you inject water into a car

681
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:21.360
break line, you will cause them to fail. What would

682
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:23.679
happen if the breaks in your husband's truck failed when

683
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.199
he was hauling a heavy load. I've found how to

684
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:28.159
blow up a gas meter and make it seem like

685
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:30.719
an accident. I know the meter on your house and

686
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:33.000
business is set on the east side, and that the

687
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:35.280
meter on your parents' house is on the south side.

688
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:37.840
I'm still watching your family. While I did not see

689
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:40.119
your son this week, I saw last Friday that he

690
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:43.039
was wearing a bright pink shirt. I see he moved

691
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:46.280
into the RV. Here's how you can save your family

692
00:36:46.519 --> 00:36:49.639
commit suicide. If you do not, you will slowly see

693
00:36:49.639 --> 00:36:52.199
things being taken away from you, and each time you

694
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.559
will know that you could have stopped it, which will

695
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:57.079
eat you apart from the inside. By the time I

696
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.679
am done, you will want to end it anyway. So

697
00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:02.239
why not do it now and save them? I think

698
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:05.840
it's an easy choice. One life to save six lives.

699
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:08.480
I think it's an easy choice. Your family does not

700
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:11.360
need you, but you can save them. The best ways

701
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.159
to do it are a shotgun to the head, cyanide

702
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:17.760
gunshot to the chest, explosives hit by a train, jump

703
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:21.679
from a height, inhaling household toxins or gas, slitting your

704
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:24.320
wrists or throat. Remember, if you don't get it right

705
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:26.599
the first time, then you will be likely committed for

706
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:28.960
mental health issues, and you will lose your business and

707
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:32.440
possibly your family. So I would pick a reliable method.

708
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:35.079
Do not tell anyone about this email, or the deal

709
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:37.440
is off and I will come for your family unless

710
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:40.599
you're heartless, selfish bitch that I can expect to see

711
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:44.000
your obituary in the paper and the next couple of weeks.

712
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:48.559
That is a terrifying email. Isn't that a horrible I

713
00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:50.360
can't even imagine getting something like that?

714
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:54.719
Uh so scary. Amy followed her religion closely, and taking

715
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.760
one's life was strictly forbidden. The lifelong migraines that Amy

716
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:02.000
had suffered from now worsened with this new stress in

717
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:06.000
her life. On July thirty first, Amy received another threatening,

718
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:10.239
untraceable email from Jane Amy. Your family is in danger.

719
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:13.559
Last Sunday you received an email with a solution to

720
00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:16.079
this problem, and you have not done anything about it.

721
00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.599
Are you so selfish that you will put your family's

722
00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:21.440
lives at risk if you do not receive the email,

723
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:24.760
then check your check your junk mails.

724
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:26.679
Oh you check your junk mail people.

725
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:30.679
Sorry, I'll laugh, but it's just so ridiculous. Amy, visibly

726
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:34.760
distraught over the two anonymous email threats, called FBI agent Silky.

727
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:37.880
The two had become friends. Amy having no one to

728
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.079
talk to about the threat on her life. Remember she

729
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:43.280
wasn't telling family and friends about this, she confided in

730
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.239
the FBI agent about the impact that death threat had

731
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:48.880
on her and her family. When Silk arrived at the

732
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:52.320
Awl Wines home, Stephen was prepared. He had printed out

733
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.960
the threatening emails. Amy handed over her computer, hopeful it

734
00:38:56.039 --> 00:39:00.239
might contain clues that could help identify whoever was targeting her.

735
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:03.440
Stephen also gave the agents a laptop and his Samsung

736
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:07.639
Galaxy phone. The FBI created forensic images of the devices,

737
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:11.280
capturing their apps, processes, and files, then returned them a

738
00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:15.280
day or two later. Agent Silke obtained credit reports for

739
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:18.519
several of Amy's connections. While there appeared to be little

740
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:21.519
financial incentive for anyone to want Amy dead, the fact

741
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:24.480
that someone using the alias dog Day God had spent

742
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:27.320
thousands of dollars to have her killed pointed to a

743
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:31.360
deeply personal motive. Disturbingly, the person behind the plot had

744
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:35.400
specifically told the hitman for hire Ura to spare Amy's husband,

745
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:39.079
raising questions that naturally led investigators to consider Stephen as

746
00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:43.800
potential suspect. Agent Silky spoke with Stephen and conducted digital

747
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.000
imaging of his devices, but the investigation into him didn't

748
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.559
go any further. He was not considered a suspect. The

749
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.320
FBI largely handled the investigation and kept the Cottage Grove

750
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:58.239
Police Department out of the loop. Amy decided to enroll

751
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.840
in an eight week Cottage Groves Citizens Police Department class

752
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:04.719
to learn more about how they operated in hopes of

753
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.760
keeping herself and her family safe. She didn't share the

754
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:10.159
threats in her life with others that ran the program

755
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.079
or the attendees. When Amy's class was complete, she got

756
00:40:14.119 --> 00:40:16.480
to go on a ride along with the canine unit.

757
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:21.000
Amy loved the experience and especially working with the police dogs.

758
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:25.039
The officers and fellow participants loved working with Amy. They

759
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:27.719
all celebrated by going out to dinner together after their

760
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:32.000
graduation ceremony. Amy would be dead two weeks later.

761
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:36.280
On Sunday, November thirteenth, twenty sixteen. Amy wasn't feeling well.

762
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:40.159
She felt dizzy, tired, and nauseous. Stephen worked from home

763
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:43.719
and did tech support for two companies, op Antics and Signa.

764
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.639
On Sunday, he was scheduled to work tech support for

765
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:50.039
op Antics from six am to five pm. He worked

766
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:52.719
until noon, but records showed that he never logged back

767
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.559
in after his lunch break. Amy's dad was at the

768
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:58.639
house installing a new doggie door in the garage. He

769
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:01.719
finished up around two pm and was about five minutes

770
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:04.159
down the road when Stephen called and asked him if

771
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:06.920
he could return to pick up Joe for the afternoon

772
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.920
so that he could take Amy to urgent care. As

773
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:13.079
the day progressed, Amy felt worse, but when Stephen asked

774
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:15.719
her if she wanted to go to the doctor, she declined.

775
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:19.039
Amy asked another trainer to fill in for her classes.

776
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:21.760
The class met on the All Wines property in their

777
00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:25.320
barn from about four thirty to five forty five. The

778
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:28.519
students recalled hearing the screeching of tires peeling out of

779
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:31.639
the All Wines driveway at some point. At five twenty

780
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:34.639
nine pm, Stephen left to pick up Joe from Amy's

781
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.800
parents for his weekly Ninja Warrior class at the local

782
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:40.800
gym when he realized that he forgot to bring Joe's

783
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:44.360
workout clothes, they decided to skip the class and instead

784
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:47.519
went to Culver's for dinner, a weekly Sunday ritual for

785
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:50.559
the pair. When they returned home, ten year old Joe

786
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.119
ran into the house to see his mom and found

787
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:56.639
Amy lying between the hallway and the primary bedroom. Her

788
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:58.719
head lay in a pool of blood on the carpet,

789
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.280
a nine millimeter handgun by her left side, a shell

790
00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:05.559
casing by her right foot. Joe ran to get his father.

791
00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:08.800
Joe asked why Amy was sleeping on the floor, and

792
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:16.079
Stephen responded, She's probably dead. Stephen called nine one one.

793
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:24.719
I think my wife over It looks like you do.

794
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:31.280
I don't know. I don't know.

795
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:35.719
I just saw her and him blid. I can't tell

796
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:36.639
where she's shut.

797
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:41.320
I don't know. Are you going to be weary?

798
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:45.400
That's one of the oddest nine one one calls we've heard.

799
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:48.079
It is a very odd nine one one call. Both

800
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:51.360
like his demeanor and his son. How old is his son?

801
00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:52.119
I mean ten?

802
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.840
Yeah, it's just it's heartbreaking to hear his son.

803
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:58.639
I think I think the son hasn't processed what's going on.

804
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.000
Yeah, it was a ten year world you wouldn't like

805
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:03.679
at that point obviously, but it's just it's a strange call.

806
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:05.920
His demeanor very odd.

807
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:06.639
Yeah.

808
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:10.039
Sergeant Gwen Martin, who had befriended Amy when she was

809
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:13.800
in the Cottage Grove Citizens Police Department program, was one

810
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:17.320
of the three responding officers. She burst into tears when

811
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:20.599
she saw Amy sprawled on the floor, clearly dead. She

812
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.320
went back to her cruiser to regain her composure and

813
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:25.679
did a quick search on police calls to the all

814
00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:28.480
Wine home. She was shocked to see the report from

815
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:31.800
five months earlier of the threat to Amy's life. She

816
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:34.719
called Detective Randy McAllister and asked him to come to

817
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:38.280
the crime scene as soon as possible. The agency responsible

818
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.719
for investigating Amy's death now shifted back to the Cottage

819
00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:45.440
Grove Police Department because the crime had happened in their jurisdiction.

820
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:48.199
The FBI handed over the files that they had been

821
00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:52.000
keeping to themselves. The Cottage Grove police thought that things

822
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:55.599
about the crime scene seemed off. To investigators, It looked

823
00:43:55.639 --> 00:43:58.440
less like a suicide and more like a carefully staged

824
00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:01.800
crime scene. Was near her left arm, but she was

825
00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:05.280
right handed. There was no blood or gunshot residue on

826
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:08.480
her hands. There was dog hair everywhere through the house,

827
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:11.199
but not in front of the bedroom door where Amy lay.

828
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:14.480
That area of the floor seemed to have been recently cleaned.

829
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:16.960
The wood floor was hazy, as if it had been

830
00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:20.519
wiped with a cleaning agent. Later, when luminol was applied

831
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:22.880
to the area, it lit up like a Christmas tree.

832
00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:25.599
I should apologize for that bad similar there.

833
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:28.679
It's a bad simile. It strikes me as odd that

834
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.239
someone would clean up this scene, like if they were

835
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:34.280
trying to stage it like a suicide. It seems like

836
00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:36.880
you would just leave it without cleaning it up. Seems

837
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:38.719
like that would be an obvious thing that police would

838
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:39.159
pick up on.

839
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:39.800
Mm hmm.

840
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:43.159
Someone had cleaned up a lot of blood. The luminol

841
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:46.840
also revealed footprints up and down the hallway. It appeared

842
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:48.920
that Amy had been shot in the hallway and then

843
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:52.280
moved closer to her bedroom. There was no blood spatter

844
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:53.519
anywhere in the bedroom.

845
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:56.199
If you were to shoot yourself to take your own life,

846
00:44:56.400 --> 00:44:58.679
you wouldn't do it in the middle of the hallway.

847
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.880
Might lie down in a bed or a chair or something.

848
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.480
Yeah, exactly. In the kitchen, pumpkins were cooking in a

849
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:08.039
roasting oven on the counter for a pie that Amy

850
00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:11.039
was planning on baking. Later. Would someone be baking a

851
00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:13.920
pie if they planned on taking their life. I'm gonna

852
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.320
say no. Amy's parents and their church pastor arrived at

853
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:17.760
the house.

854
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.719
When Amy's parents saw her, which must have been so

855
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:24.199
horrible to see, one of them first said, why would

856
00:45:24.199 --> 00:45:26.920
the gun be by her left side? She's right handed.

857
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:31.800
Wow, that's a pretty perceptive. They were devastated, but also confused.

858
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:35.119
Why would Amy take her own life? She loved her family,

859
00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:38.480
her church, her pets, and her career. Life was going

860
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:40.800
well and there was no reason to suspect she was

861
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:44.559
feeling suicidal, and there was no note. Amy seemed like

862
00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:46.800
one of the last people who would abruptly leave the

863
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:50.519
world without leaving an explanation. Stephen went to the police

864
00:45:50.519 --> 00:45:53.920
station and agreed to provide his DNA and submit to

865
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:57.599
a gunshot residue test. Later, it was revealed he tested

866
00:45:57.639 --> 00:46:00.519
positive for gunshot residue, but it well us on the

867
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:03.000
low end. We'll be back after a break.

868
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:12.320
Before we jump back, I have a surprise for you

869
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:20.400
halftime snack. Well, I brought you our listener KK. I

870
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:22.519
don't think that's her name, that's just her Instagram handle

871
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:26.559
recommended we try these and I am obsessed. They're so good.

872
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:33.000
They are popums, light and crispy pretzel snacks by Snack Factory.

873
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:35.920
I have two flavors for you. One is sea salt,

874
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:43.119
the other is a golden mustard barbecue. I wanted the cheddar,

875
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.719
but they must have been out and this is what

876
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:48.480
they put in our grocery delivery order. So do you

877
00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:50.320
want to try the popums?

878
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:51.519
Yeah? For sure?

879
00:46:58.199 --> 00:46:59.679
What did you think of the popums?

880
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:02.800
Really good And they don't look like pretzels at all,

881
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:04.960
but they taste like pretzels. But yeah, I thought they

882
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:05.760
were yummy, but.

883
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:08.239
They're like a are or pretzel. I don't even know

884
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:11.320
how to describe it. But definitely check them out if

885
00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:14.079
I just got them at Meyer, So I think they're

886
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:15.760
readily available anywhere.

887
00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:17.440
Yeah, well, thanks for the halftime snack.

888
00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:20.760
You're welcome. Sometimes I get a snack and I can't

889
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:23.840
wait for you to try it, So that's what happened here. Yeah,

890
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:27.440
like I couldn't keep eating popums without sharing them with you.

891
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:29.599
I see which flavor did you prefer.

892
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:32.159
I think I like the Sea Salt one.

893
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:33.760
I like the Sea Salt ones a lot too. Yeah,

894
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:35.320
what do you rate them?

895
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:38.320
I would probably give them eight out of ten.

896
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:41.840
I think i'd give the Sea Salt ones ten out

897
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:44.760
of ten. I think we're too easy of graders, but

898
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:48.440
just really like our snacks. Two days after Amy's death,

899
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:51.800
police asked Stephen to come in for questioning. He arrived

900
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.559
with his pastor and attorney. When asked if there was

901
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:57.719
anyone who might want Amy dad, he mentioned Kristen again.

902
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:01.440
She knew everything about the couple and to Amy's travel schedule.

903
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:05.760
Kristen was interviewed, but again not considered a suspect. Steven

904
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:09.239
admitted that Amy had a seven hundred thousand dollars life

905
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:14.639
insurance policy. During the interview, Steven dropped a bombshell he'd

906
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:18.079
been unfaithful in his marriage to Amy. You don't look

907
00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:18.920
at all surprised.

908
00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:20.840
I am not at all surprised.

909
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:24.679
He met someone on the dating website Ashley Madison.

910
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:27.280
Oh, we haven't heard about Ashley Madison for a little while.

911
00:48:27.559 --> 00:48:30.559
Ashley Madison is famous for its slogan life is short,

912
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:34.440
Have an affair, I didn't realize on Ashley Madison that

913
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:37.719
women don't have to pay. I found this in research,

914
00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:39.840
not by going to their website. But women don't have

915
00:48:39.880 --> 00:48:41.960
to pay what men do? What do you think about that?

916
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:44.760
It doesn't actually surprise me. I think it's like, you

917
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:47.679
know places that like nightclubs that let women in for

918
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:49.159
free but chargemount of cover.

919
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:53.000
Yeah. Steven admitted to investigators that his first date ended

920
00:48:53.000 --> 00:48:55.880
in disaster when she left to go to the bathroom

921
00:48:56.039 --> 00:48:58.920
and never returned, but he had better luck on his

922
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.920
second date in October twenty fifteen, with a woman named

923
00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:06.159
Michelle Woodward. Michelle, who suffered from extreme anxiety and depression,

924
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.320
claimed Stephen that she was in an open marriage. They

925
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:12.239
met at restaurants or coffee shops, and as a relationship,

926
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:15.519
regressed at each other's houses if their spouses were away.

927
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:20.559
Stephen brought Michelle along on two work trips. Investigators interviewed Michelle,

928
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:23.320
and she admitted that she had been intertwined with Stephen

929
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:25.920
for several months. She had visited the all Wine home

930
00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:28.719
when Amy was out of town. She'd entered through the

931
00:49:28.760 --> 00:49:32.719
back door at Stephen's request to avoid their surveillance cameras.

932
00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:35.920
Michelle told law enforcement that she believed that Stephen was

933
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:38.519
smart enough to pull off the plot to kill his

934
00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:41.599
wife and was capable of it. About a month before

935
00:49:41.639 --> 00:49:45.039
Amy's death, Stephen told Michelle that he decided to rededicate

936
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:48.000
himself to his marriage. He claimed to detectives that the

937
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:51.599
relationship had run its course. He and Michelle remained friends

938
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.079
and saw each other occasionally. We were going to take

939
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:58.199
a little Ashley Madison detour. The Ashley Madison hack was

940
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:02.000
a massive cybersecurity breed that occurred in July twenty fifteen,

941
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:05.280
exposing the personal data of millions of users from the

942
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:10.119
controversial dating site designed for extramarital affairs. The site, owned

943
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:13.880
by Avid Life Media now called Ruby Life, promised users

944
00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.079
anononymity and discretion.

945
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:21.119
Say not it, say it, anonymity.

946
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.119
And what he said. However, a group of hackers known

947
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:28.079
as the Impact Team infiltrated the company's servers and stole

948
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:32.840
highly sensitive user information. The hackers initially demanded that the

949
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:35.880
site be shut down, threatening to release the stolen data

950
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:38.719
if their demands were not met. When the company refused,

951
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:42.880
the hackers followed through leaking nearly thirty two million accounts

952
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.880
on the Dark Web in August twenty fifteen. The data

953
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:51.000
dump included names, user names, email addresses, credit card transactions, messages,

954
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:53.639
and profile details.

955
00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:55.480
For so many men that were freaking out at that

956
00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:56.199
point in time.

957
00:50:56.719 --> 00:51:00.320
The breach had serious consequences for Ashley Madison's users, with

958
00:51:00.360 --> 00:51:05.400
many facing divorces, job losses, and public humiliation. Tragically, some

959
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:09.719
individuals linked to the leak dyed by suicide, highlighting the

960
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:14.039
devastating personal impact of the hack. In response, Ashley Madison

961
00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:18.519
faced multiple lawsuits, ultimately agreeing to a eleven point two

962
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:22.960
million dollars settlement for affected users. Additionally, Avid Life Media

963
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:26.400
was fined one point six million dollars for misleading users

964
00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:30.079
about the security of their data, including falsely offering a

965
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:35.079
full delete feature that did not actually erase user information.

966
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:39.400
The company later rebranded, shifting its marketing away from explicitly

967
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:45.519
promoting affairs and implementing stricter security measures. Despite extensive investigations,

968
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:49.199
the Impact team was never identified and no arrests were made.

969
00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:52.159
Many experts believe the attack may have been carried out

970
00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:56.840
by insiders or former employees familiar with the company's security flaws.

971
00:51:57.119 --> 00:51:59.760
The Ashley Madison hack remains one of the most infamous

972
00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:03.239
dates to breaches in history, serving as a cautionary tale

973
00:52:03.400 --> 00:52:07.719
about online privacy, cybersecurity, and the risks of trusting websites

974
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:11.519
that promised secrecy. The Ashley Madison hack exposed several high

975
00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:17.039
profile and individuals, including government officials, military personnel, and public figures.

976
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:20.719
Among them was Josh Dugger, a former TV reality star

977
00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:24.119
and conservative activists, who admitted to using the site after

978
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:27.119
his name appeared in the leak data. Sam Raider, a

979
00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:30.599
Christian YouTube blogger known for his family oriented content, was

980
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.480
also implicated. Thousands of US government and military email addresses

981
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.480
were also found in the breach, raising security concerns and

982
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:42.519
prompting investigations. Additionally, several religious leaders and clergy members were implicated,

983
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:46.400
leading to resignations in public backlash. The leak also included

984
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:51.760
corporate executives and professionals, though many denied actively using the service.

985
00:52:52.039 --> 00:52:56.360
While rumors circulated about celebrities being involved, Ashley Madison did

986
00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:00.679
not verify email addresses, resulting in some false associations. The

987
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:05.039
reach had significant personal and professional consequences, with some individuals

988
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:09.199
facing divorces, job losses, and public humiliation. I believe that

989
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:12.519
more people could have been exposed, but some of their

990
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:15.000
identities they did a better. Some people did a better

991
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:16.920
job hiding their identities than others.

992
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:17.599
Okay.

993
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:21.920
Amy's autopsy revealed that the single fatal gunshot wound caused

994
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:25.400
her death. The bullet shot near her ear went back

995
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.199
to front, left to right, and slightly downward. There was

996
00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:31.679
no stipling on Amy's skin. Remind us what stippling is.

997
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:34.920
Oh, that's like when you shoot close range to skin,

998
00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:37.960
it gets like gunshot residue, I think on the skin.

999
00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:41.800
And well, it kind of burns the skin. Yeah, And

1000
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:44.760
you would expect if you were, you know, shooting yourself,

1001
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:48.920
that there would be still Amy's estimated time of death

1002
00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:52.000
was three PM, soon after Amy's dad had picked up

1003
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.280
Joe for the afternoon. After Amy's death, Steven and Joe

1004
00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:57.679
moved in with her parents. They didn't want to live

1005
00:53:57.679 --> 00:53:59.199
in the house where Amy had been killed.

1006
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:03.000
Neighbors of the all Wines were interviewed by police. One

1007
00:54:03.039 --> 00:54:05.559
neighbor noted that he thought it was odd that smoke

1008
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:08.679
was billowing from their chimney. One would expect to see

1009
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:11.480
smoke in a chimney in Minnesota in November, but it

1010
00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:15.440
had been unseasonably warm. That day, had someone burned evidence.

1011
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:19.199
When the nine millimeter gun was swabbed for DNA, profiles

1012
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:21.920
from both Amy and Stephen were found, but more of

1013
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:24.719
his DNA was found on the grip. There were nine

1014
00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:27.800
smeared bloodstains on the hardwood floor in the hallway and

1015
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:30.880
on both sides of the bedroom door. A warrant was

1016
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:34.119
issued to search the all Wine home. Sixty six devices

1017
00:54:34.119 --> 00:54:37.039
were removed from the home and analyzed by the FBI.

1018
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:38.679
Sixty six devices.

1019
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:42.760
We need to count our devices just to see for comparison.

1020
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:45.920
I bet we have close to that many. The other

1021
00:54:46.000 --> 00:54:51.400
day I lost my ear pods again. Again I had

1022
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:53.559
but I found them, but I had to go underfind

1023
00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:56.199
my and it said, like, you have twenty three devices,

1024
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:57.320
and I was like do.

1025
00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:00.199
I wow, Well a lot of those are old, right.

1026
00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:00.920
Oh really old?

1027
00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:01.360
Yeah.

1028
00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:03.360
Yeah, like we all had. We all used to have

1029
00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:06.079
mini iPads, and I don't think any of us really

1030
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:08.880
use those anymore. Yeah, so those were in there, but yeah,

1031
00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:10.920
a lot of things that we don't use are in

1032
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:13.880
there still. But yeah, I think sixty six is probably

1033
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:15.199
because I think most of them were his.

1034
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:17.800
Yeah, well he was on it guy, so not too

1035
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:18.800
out of the ordinary.

1036
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:22.360
They actually said that his basement, his what do you

1037
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:26.280
call it, his audice or yeah, well yeah, it was

1038
00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:31.119
even for an it guy. Mm hmmm, it was very elaborate.

1039
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:34.760
Okay. Once the devices were in law enforcement's hands, his

1040
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:38.400
Internet activity proved to be very interesting. He had visited

1041
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:43.440
sites such as lonelymilf dot com, Naughty dates dot com,

1042
00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:47.119
and Backpage. There was proof of his on his devices

1043
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:49.840
that he had hired several escorts in the past. He

1044
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:53.400
had driven to Iowa twice for hookups. Stephen had told

1045
00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:56.159
investigators that he didn't know what the dark web was

1046
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:59.719
or how to access it, but his devices proved otherwise.

1047
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:03.159
He had been accessing the dark web since twenty fourteen.

1048
00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:06.639
The software Tor and Tails were both found on his

1049
00:56:06.679 --> 00:56:10.000
MacBook Pro. Tor enables you to use the dark web,

1050
00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:14.800
and Tails erases your activity. Steven had searched Reddit for Tails.

1051
00:56:15.079 --> 00:56:18.639
According to their website, Tails uses the Tor network to

1052
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:22.440
protect your privacy online and help you avoid censorship to

1053
00:56:22.639 --> 00:56:24.400
enjoy the Internet like it should be.

1054
00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:28.039
Oh boy, I was surprised that he had a MacBook Pro. Like,

1055
00:56:28.119 --> 00:56:31.159
we're a big Apple family, but I thought like guys

1056
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:35.039
that were like it, guys preferred PCs.

1057
00:56:35.599 --> 00:56:37.960
I think that used to be true, but I think

1058
00:56:38.360 --> 00:56:41.000
like in more recent years, I don't think that's necessarily

1059
00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:44.320
the case. I think it guys could equally prefer a

1060
00:56:44.360 --> 00:56:48.679
Mac to a PC. Okay, A search how to download

1061
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:51.400
tails on an acer computer was found on one of

1062
00:56:51.440 --> 00:56:55.440
Steven's devices, but among the sixty six devices seized, there

1063
00:56:55.559 --> 00:56:58.559
was no Acer computer. Police knew a device had been

1064
00:56:58.599 --> 00:57:02.800
destroyed or was being hidden. As the investigation continued, computer

1065
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:06.000
forensics experts decided to narrow in on the dark web

1066
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:10.199
to see if dog Day God had any other illicit interactions.

1067
00:57:10.239 --> 00:57:12.639
Sure enough, they found that they had sought a drug

1068
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:17.599
called scopolamine on a dark web marketplace called dream Market.

1069
00:57:17.960 --> 00:57:21.480
Scopolamine is often in patch form and used to prevent

1070
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:25.519
nausea or vomiting, especially in motion, sickness, or recovery from

1071
00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:29.679
a surgical procedure. It's often called the zombie drug. In excess,

1072
00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:35.119
the drug causes disorientation, dizziness, and hallucinations. Scopolamine in its

1073
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:39.199
powdered form is odorless and tasteless and easily dissolves in liquid.

1074
00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:42.800
When Amy's blood was tested for the scopolamine, she was

1075
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:45.480
found to have forty five times, the dosage in her

1076
00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:48.679
system a life threatening dose. On the day of her death,

1077
00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:52.840
Amy had searched vertigo, but then her searches became increasingly

1078
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:56.760
incoherent and were just random letters as her condition worsened.

1079
00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:00.519
Stephen quickly became the only suspect in Amy's day, but

1080
00:58:00.679 --> 00:58:04.519
police didn't have a smoking gun. All the evidence was circumstantial,

1081
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:08.199
with Stephen being an expert in it, Investigators honed in

1082
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:11.400
on his devices and they dug deep. The Cottage Grove

1083
00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:14.840
Police Department examined the phone that Stephen had previously handed

1084
00:58:14.840 --> 00:58:18.599
over to the FBI. They discovered two apps, or Fox

1085
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:21.719
and Orbot, both of which are commonly used to access

1086
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:25.920
the dark web. Alongside them were text messages containing confirmation

1087
00:58:26.039 --> 00:58:30.960
codes from Stephen's purchase from local bitcoins. Strangely, these messages

1088
00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:34.719
appeared to have been overlooked, or at least underappreciated during

1089
00:58:34.719 --> 00:58:38.920
the FBI's initial review. On Stephen's notes app on his iPhone,

1090
00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:41.239
there was a note found with a thirty four character

1091
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:44.840
bitcoin wallet. The note had been deleted almost immediately, but

1092
00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:48.920
it remained in his iCloud. Investigators knew they were onto something.

1093
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:52.320
This bitcoin wallet was the same that dog Day God

1094
00:58:52.400 --> 00:58:54.679
had sent to euro for payment for the hit man.

1095
00:58:55.119 --> 00:58:58.159
Now they had evidence that proved that Stephen and dog

1096
00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:01.079
Day God were one and the same. This was the

1097
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:04.239
smoking gun that they had been looking for. The FBI

1098
00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:08.000
could pinpoint Steven's actions from his computer, minute by minute

1099
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:11.559
that coincided with dog Day God's activity on the dark web.

1100
00:59:11.960 --> 00:59:14.880
For example, Stephen posted a picture of Amy on their

1101
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:19.559
family website allwine dot net from their Hawaiian vacation, minutes

1102
00:59:19.599 --> 00:59:22.719
before dog Day God posted the same picture on Basa

1103
00:59:22.800 --> 00:59:26.480
Mafia when attempting to hire the hit man. Furthermore, while

1104
00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:29.320
Stephen had covered his dark web tracks, he did not

1105
00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:32.559
delete the Google searches on his other devices. He had

1106
00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:36.360
searched about Moline, Illinois, the first location where Amy was

1107
00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:39.599
supposed to be killed, and had recently visited the website

1108
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:41.559
that carried her life insurance policy.

1109
00:59:41.800 --> 00:59:44.519
Do you understand that I thought that was a little confusing,

1110
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:46.960
that the whole bitcoin wallet thing and how they were

1111
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:49.639
able to link these two accounts and then they knew

1112
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:50.599
it must be Stephen.

1113
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:52.880
Yeah, I think it made sense to me. I mean,

1114
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.880
bitcoin is it's super confusing, but I think like that

1115
00:59:56.159 --> 00:59:59.159
having that wallet code allows you to kind of match

1116
00:59:59.239 --> 00:59:59.960
up the transit.

1117
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:05.440
Yeah, and because it's the thirty four unique characters, it's

1118
01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:08.840
impossible that anyone else would have those same set of

1119
01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:10.079
yeahers in there exactly.

1120
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:13.760
In March twenty sixteen, on his forty third birthday, Stephen

1121
01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:17.239
Alwine had walked into a Wendy's carrying seven thousand dollars

1122
01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:19.559
in cash. He didn't know it yet, but he had

1123
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:22.400
just locked his keys in his car. He was nervous,

1124
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:25.320
and for good reason. He was meeting a mysterious man

1125
01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:29.000
from local bitcoins dot com to purchase bitcoin with the

1126
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.480
cash that he had recently received from pawned ten thousand

1127
01:00:32.480 --> 01:00:35.280
dollars worth of silver coins and bars. To get the cash,

1128
01:00:35.599 --> 01:00:38.880
trying to skirt suspicion instead of withdrawing a large sum

1129
01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:41.719
from his bank account. With a scan of a QR code,

1130
01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:44.760
his bitcoin wallet was all set up. Later that day,

1131
01:00:44.840 --> 01:00:47.719
he met his mistress, Michelle Woodward for lunch at the

1132
01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:48.599
Blue Door Pub.

1133
01:00:49.199 --> 01:00:51.760
It surprised me that he bought bitcoin in person. I

1134
01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:53.480
didn't know that it was something that you could do.

1135
01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:56.079
I didn't either. I do know there are eight ms

1136
01:00:56.119 --> 01:00:58.599
where you can buy bitcoin, but I didn't know you

1137
01:00:58.599 --> 01:01:00.960
could like meet up with somebody in per and make

1138
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:03.320
a transaction. But I guess, I guess it makes all so.

1139
01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:04.000
Confusing to me.

1140
01:01:04.360 --> 01:01:04.719
It is.

1141
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.599
I know that money changes, like the dollar changes every day,

1142
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:11.360
and you know, wherever you live your money is worth

1143
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:14.679
a different amount every day. But bitcoin fluctuates so much

1144
01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:16.840
from day to day. I don't know how you keep

1145
01:01:16.880 --> 01:01:21.320
track of how much you have. On January twentieth, twenty seventeen,

1146
01:01:21.519 --> 01:01:24.480
Stephen was arrested after he dropped Joe off at school.

1147
01:01:24.639 --> 01:01:27.199
He was charged with second degree murder. His bail was

1148
01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:30.079
set at five hundred thousand dollars, which he paid upon

1149
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:32.760
his release. He was required to wear an ankle monitor

1150
01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:36.079
and only have supervised visits with Joe, who was living

1151
01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:39.039
with his grandparents. Two weeks after his release from jail,

1152
01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:43.280
Stephen was arrested again after having contact with Joe. He

1153
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:46.760
again posted bail that was set at six hundred thousand dollars.

1154
01:01:46.960 --> 01:01:49.079
I'm not sure Steven had a lot of money, I guess.

1155
01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:52.480
In March twenty seventeen, a grand jury reviewed his case

1156
01:01:52.519 --> 01:01:55.599
and he was recharged, this time with first degree murder.

1157
01:01:55.639 --> 01:01:57.519
Yeah that's good. I was going to ask second degree

1158
01:01:57.599 --> 01:01:59.800
murger didn't make any sense when he was planning all

1159
01:01:59.800 --> 01:02:00.920
this stuff for so long.

1160
01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:04.360
I think as the investigation unfolded they found more that

1161
01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:06.639
they were able to charge him first degree. He was

1162
01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:09.639
once again arrested, with a bail set at one million dollars,

1163
01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:12.639
and he pleaded not guilty. He didn't have the additional

1164
01:02:12.679 --> 01:02:16.119
funds and remained in jail until his trial in twenty eighteen.

1165
01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:19.840
The prosecution argued that because of his position of authority

1166
01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:23.079
in the Church of God, he couldn't divorce his wife Amy.

1167
01:02:23.480 --> 01:02:26.679
After hiring a faux hit man and losing thousands of dollars,

1168
01:02:26.719 --> 01:02:29.559
he became desperate and killed Amy himself so he could

1169
01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:33.199
live out his sexual fantasies with other women. Steven's lawyers

1170
01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:36.159
used the good guy defense. Stephen was a church elder

1171
01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:38.719
and a leader in his community. He had no criminal

1172
01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:42.159
record since his arrest. He'd been a model prisoner, preached

1173
01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:45.719
about God to his fellow inmates, and had even converted

1174
01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:49.440
three atheists. Stephen did not testify at his trial. His

1175
01:02:49.519 --> 01:02:53.679
defense attorney said they spoke exhaustively about the decision, but

1176
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:55.920
in the end they decided that it was better he

1177
01:02:55.960 --> 01:02:59.119
not testify. The trial lasted for eight days. The jury

1178
01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:02.559
deliberated for about six hours before they found Stephen guilty

1179
01:03:02.599 --> 01:03:06.800
of first degree premeditated murder. Before he was sentenced, Amy's

1180
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:10.400
friends and family read victim impact statements, but few were

1181
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:13.920
openly critical of Stephen, and a letter submitted to the court,

1182
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:17.119
Amy's parents referred to Stephen's betrayal and said he was

1183
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:21.159
a quote selfish person and forgiveness will take time. I

1184
01:03:21.159 --> 01:03:24.800
guess their religion must tell them that forgiveness is one

1185
01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:28.760
of the important tenets that they must follow. Before Stephen

1186
01:03:28.840 --> 01:03:31.719
was sentenced then forty four, he addressed the court in

1187
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:35.400
a rambling and disjointed eight minute statement that I'm about

1188
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:37.719
to read to you. Oh God, please, He said he

1189
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.800
loved Amy and did not kill her. Quote I've never

1190
01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:43.480
asked for anything except to work for God. I never

1191
01:03:43.519 --> 01:03:46.320
went to sleep and I never woke up without kissing her.

1192
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:49.360
The grief of losing her is tremendous. No one ever

1193
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:52.280
talked bad about our relationship. I'm going to take my

1194
01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:56.559
Bible to Saint Cloud Prison and see what happens. Stephen

1195
01:03:56.599 --> 01:03:59.679
said he has met drug addicts, child molesters, and kidnappers

1196
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:03.000
while in the county jail, and he has been conducting

1197
01:04:03.039 --> 01:04:07.199
his Bible study. In his last trial before retirement, Judge

1198
01:04:07.239 --> 01:04:12.719
b William Eckstrom clearly annoyed did not buy Steven's account. Quote,

1199
01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:16.320
mister Lwine, my perceptions aren't going to alter the sentence

1200
01:04:16.360 --> 01:04:19.039
in this case. But my perception is that you're an

1201
01:04:19.039 --> 01:04:22.320
incredible actor, that you can turn tears on and off,

1202
01:04:22.599 --> 01:04:25.400
that you are a hypocrite, and you are a cold

1203
01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:29.719
and calculating killer boom. He sentenced Alwine to life in

1204
01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:34.320
prison without parole. After the sentencing, Washington County Assistant Attorney

1205
01:04:34.360 --> 01:04:38.280
Frank Fink said, this is an entirely circumstantial case. It

1206
01:04:38.360 --> 01:04:41.079
was like putting a jigsaw puzzle together for the jury

1207
01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:45.519
to convict him. Washington County Assistant Attorney Jamie lynnon Krauser

1208
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:49.039
said prosecutors remained focused on the victim. At the end

1209
01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:51.800
of the day, justice was served and I'm glad for

1210
01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:55.039
Amy and her family. After the verdict, Dami's friends and

1211
01:04:55.119 --> 01:04:58.599
family released the following statement, quote, we can summon no

1212
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:01.639
words to describe life without Amy. We love her and

1213
01:05:01.679 --> 01:05:04.840
miss her tremendously. We now turn to the path ahead

1214
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:08.639
of privately healing and grieving. The Council of elders at

1215
01:05:08.639 --> 01:05:12.039
the United Church of God removed Stephen from ministerial roles

1216
01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:15.039
in twenty seventeen when he was charged with Amy's murder.

1217
01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:19.239
After his sentencing, they released the following statement quote. Because

1218
01:05:19.239 --> 01:05:21.920
of the sensational nature of the facts surrounding this case,

1219
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:26.119
a considerable number of international and national media outlets covered

1220
01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:28.639
the events leading up to and including the trial. It

1221
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:31.639
is our fervent hope that we all continue praying to

1222
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:35.280
our merciful Father bought the entire situation, and be compassionate

1223
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:38.480
about what the extended families are growing through. Here is

1224
01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:41.599
an important point. While we certainly respect the verdict, at

1225
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:44.280
the same time, we personally are not to sit in judgment.

1226
01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:46.920
We can have confidence that are all knowing God is

1227
01:05:47.000 --> 01:05:51.239
aware of all aspects regarding this tragic situation. As a result,

1228
01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:54.880
we will not be making speculative comments about the verdict.

1229
01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:58.639
Their statement really bothered me because I had said nothing

1230
01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:02.000
about Amy being valuable person and that she would be

1231
01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:04.360
missed and her life was meaningful.

1232
01:06:04.719 --> 01:06:07.000
Yeah, you would think they would do that.

1233
01:06:07.400 --> 01:06:10.800
In her book The Darkest Web by Eileen Ormsby, she

1234
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:13.199
said that she's struck off a friendship of sorts with

1235
01:06:13.320 --> 01:06:16.719
Eura and Europe made a comment quote, I wish I

1236
01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:19.840
could have stalled him longer. He should have gotten a divorce.

1237
01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:23.639
I don't like when religion makes people kill people. Religion

1238
01:06:23.679 --> 01:06:26.880
should cause people to forgive, let go and be happy.

1239
01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:31.159
I'm sorry, but taking advice from this sis I who

1240
01:06:31.280 --> 01:06:35.159
started the dark Web for killing people.

1241
01:06:35.800 --> 01:06:38.559
So I think that if you're to believe that it's

1242
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:41.239
an individual, it almost seems to me like it's a

1243
01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:45.079
network of individuals. But they just kind of spit spun it.

1244
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:48.199
So it's like, well, we didn't do anything. We were

1245
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:53.079
collecting these names to give to law enforcement. Rest in peace, Amy.

1246
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:55.840
She was a lovely woman who deserved so much more

1247
01:06:55.880 --> 01:06:56.480
out of life.

1248
01:06:56.719 --> 01:06:58.079
Yeah, for sure makes.

1249
01:06:57.920 --> 01:07:00.719
Me so sad when these women just really was dedicated

1250
01:07:00.760 --> 01:07:03.280
to her husband and would have done anything for him

1251
01:07:03.360 --> 01:07:07.599
to keep her marriage and to you, and this is

1252
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:08.960
that's how he treated her.

1253
01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:10.400
Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense.

1254
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:13.280
So I believe that Joe has continued to live with

1255
01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:16.679
his grandparents. Steven has had many appeals and he has

1256
01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:19.719
lost them all. In April of twenty twenty two, five

1257
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:22.440
men were arrested in Romania, believed to be part of

1258
01:07:22.480 --> 01:07:26.440
the bass on mafia scam. It's unclear if Eura was

1259
01:07:26.519 --> 01:07:30.639
among them. Forty eight Hours covered this story in two

1260
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:34.519
parts and it's at our sources. I recommend that you

1261
01:07:34.519 --> 01:07:37.760
go watch it. But Peter Van Sant, who is like

1262
01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:41.199
their Keith Morrison, he just did a really good job

1263
01:07:41.199 --> 01:07:44.199
in this case. But he reached out on a lark

1264
01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:48.519
to Eura for an interview, and to everyone surprised, Era agreed,

1265
01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:51.960
but under one condition, the forty eight Hours would have

1266
01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:55.239
to travel to London, and they did, but when they arrived,

1267
01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:58.599
Urra never showed up. Instead, he sent a video a

1268
01:07:58.639 --> 01:08:01.599
diary in the video, so you're a claim that he

1269
01:08:01.679 --> 01:08:05.599
wanted to expose the murder for higher operations and he

1270
01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:09.039
handed them a bunch of individuals that have since been arrested.

1271
01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:09.880
Interesting.

1272
01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:12.559
Yeah, it's a pretty interesting episode. I recommend that you

1273
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:15.960
go watch it. I wonder where Amy's dogs were during

1274
01:08:16.640 --> 01:08:17.239
the murder.

1275
01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:19.960
Yeah, did she have like a did she keep them

1276
01:08:19.960 --> 01:08:21.199
at a kennel or I think.

1277
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:23.039
They must have been in some sort of kennel. Yeah,

1278
01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:25.760
but she was having her class, so they probably weren't

1279
01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:28.800
like in the barn, but maybe they had kennels for

1280
01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:31.520
them in the house. Yeah, I wish they would have attacked.

1281
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:32.279
Yeah.

1282
01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:34.039
Do you believe that he was guilty?

1283
01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:36.039
Yeah, its pretty obvious to me.

1284
01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:39.399
Do you think that the FBI could have saved Amy?

1285
01:08:39.800 --> 01:08:42.439
I mean you wonder because it was obvious that the

1286
01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:45.520
person who was trying to ever killed was serious about

1287
01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:47.960
it because they had paid thousands of dollars.

1288
01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:50.439
And it's always the husband. That's not always the husband,

1289
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:53.199
but yeah, it's always the husband. The fact that they

1290
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:56.479
dismissed him and didn't look into him further, it is

1291
01:08:56.960 --> 01:09:00.479
really sad. I believe that point Amy should have been saved.

1292
01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:02.479
Yeah, it seems like it. And I think that you

1293
01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:05.000
mentioned that there was some when they made a copy

1294
01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:07.800
of his a couple of his devices early on, that

1295
01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:10.079
there were some things on there that they either missed

1296
01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:14.000
or misinterpreted. But they could have probably figured it out

1297
01:09:14.199 --> 01:09:17.079
earlier that he was the one. So yeah, it's really

1298
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:19.560
it's really sad that they didn't catch that center and

1299
01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:20.199
didn't think of that.

1300
01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:23.359
It never ceases to amaze me, like these people that

1301
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:26.439
think that, oh, it'll be bad for my reputation if

1302
01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:28.680
I get divorced, or you know, my church will be

1303
01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:31.880
upset with me, when it's just and how do you think,

1304
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:36.039
Stephen Alwine, that your life is worth more than your wife's, right,

1305
01:09:36.039 --> 01:09:36.800
it's disgusting.

1306
01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:39.279
Yeah, And if you're truly religious, like, how can you

1307
01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:42.159
think that God would be okay with with doing that?

1308
01:09:42.239 --> 01:09:44.680
I mean, it just it really just doesn't make any sense.

1309
01:09:44.720 --> 01:09:48.079
And it's so it's so frustrating to hear this story

1310
01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:49.039
over and over again.

1311
01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:57.039
Before we go, I want to tell you about the

1312
01:09:57.079 --> 01:09:59.640
bad day I had the other day. It was pretty bad.

1313
01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:01.520
I didn't tell you during the day because by the

1314
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:03.720
time I got home, I was like, Okay, everything's fine.

1315
01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:07.479
But I went to the Meyer to pick up our groceries.

1316
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:10.000
A lot of times I just do the you know, click,

1317
01:10:10.319 --> 01:10:12.119
and then you just go. You drive to the Meyer

1318
01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:14.640
and you pick up your groceries, and you know, sometimes

1319
01:10:14.680 --> 01:10:15.960
there's some snaff who's there?

1320
01:10:16.079 --> 01:10:16.359
Right?

1321
01:10:16.399 --> 01:10:18.359
And we have two myers. You know where this is

1322
01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:21.239
going already. We have two meers that are like one's

1323
01:10:21.239 --> 01:10:24.239
a little closer and one's a little further the one

1324
01:10:24.279 --> 01:10:26.640
like closer to ann Arbor. Okay, I hope they're not listening,

1325
01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:28.640
but they do a better job than the one that's

1326
01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:32.439
closer to us, right, Yeah, And I ordered from the

1327
01:10:32.439 --> 01:10:34.840
one in ann Arbor. That's a little closer, I mean

1328
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:37.600
a little further away. I got there, I'm like, you know,

1329
01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:41.760
it's a beautiful day, and you know, windows rolled down

1330
01:10:41.800 --> 01:10:44.039
and join the music. I get there and I'm like, hey,

1331
01:10:44.439 --> 01:10:46.680
here to pick up my groceries, and they're like we'll

1332
01:10:46.720 --> 01:10:49.399
be right out, like okay, And five minutes later, I

1333
01:10:49.399 --> 01:10:54.000
get a call and they're like, where are you. Oh

1334
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:57.960
so I went to the wrong mere, which you know,

1335
01:10:58.359 --> 01:10:59.880
of course was a bummer, and I'm like, okay, no

1336
01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:02.680
big deal, just like I would have been so embarrassed

1337
01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:04.199
a few years ago, but now I'm just like I

1338
01:11:04.319 --> 01:11:06.199
just do so many dumb things. It's just, you know,

1339
01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:09.399
it's just an average Tuesday. So okay, so go get

1340
01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:12.079
you know, get the groceries. And then I decide, you know,

1341
01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:13.479
like I said, it's a beautiful day, I'm gonna go

1342
01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:16.039
to the car wash. And you know, for a lot

1343
01:11:16.039 --> 01:11:19.720
of people, car washes are anxiety, and they weren't for

1344
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:21.880
me until I have the car that I have now,

1345
01:11:22.159 --> 01:11:24.720
and I've had it for a while. But I guess

1346
01:11:25.000 --> 01:11:27.039
I think I've only gone through the car wash once.

1347
01:11:27.479 --> 01:11:29.439
So either go through the one where you do it yourself,

1348
01:11:29.560 --> 01:11:33.159
or sometimes we'll wash it at home. So I I go.

1349
01:11:33.319 --> 01:11:36.600
I pull up to the Zippy Auto Wash, which it's

1350
01:11:36.760 --> 01:11:38.720
you know, it's a nice place. There's a nice attendant

1351
01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:40.479
there and they spread your car down with their power

1352
01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:44.479
washer before you head into the stall. I'm heading. He's

1353
01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:46.680
waving me into the stall, which that gives me anxiety

1354
01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:49.760
because I'm always nervous that I'm not. Yeah, and they're

1355
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:52.880
very mental about it. I may it just give you

1356
01:11:52.960 --> 01:11:55.039
like this mean face. But surprisingly, even though it was

1357
01:11:55.039 --> 01:11:57.000
a nice day, they weren't really busy. So he's waving

1358
01:11:57.039 --> 01:11:58.439
me in and I get there and then I put

1359
01:11:58.439 --> 01:12:01.119
my car in neutral and then he's like shaking his

1360
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:04.479
head frantically. My car isn't really in neutral. It has

1361
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:09.039
like that stupid parking parking Yeah, and I can't get

1362
01:12:09.079 --> 01:12:11.800
it off. I just I'm struggling and I'm pushing like

1363
01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:13.920
every button and you know me, like I get anxious

1364
01:12:13.960 --> 01:12:16.880
and then it's all over, like I can't think straight.

1365
01:12:17.239 --> 01:12:21.000
So yeah, so then this pork he couldn't have been nicer.

1366
01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:23.039
I'd need to like go bake him a cake or

1367
01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:26.199
cookies or something, because he was so sweet. He was like,

1368
01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:27.720
you know, put in his head and he's like, Okay,

1369
01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:29.479
try this button, try this, and he was totally on

1370
01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:31.640
team Tina. Yeah, he was rooting for me, but I

1371
01:12:31.720 --> 01:12:34.199
just couldn't follow through. And really it was like five

1372
01:12:34.600 --> 01:12:38.640
five long, long, long, long minutes, and people are like

1373
01:12:38.680 --> 01:12:40.479
backed up behind me and he's so he's like, don't

1374
01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:42.359
worry about them, We're going to get you through this.

1375
01:12:43.159 --> 01:12:44.960
And then he was like, you know what, you need

1376
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:46.720
to just drive through, and I was like, how do

1377
01:12:46.800 --> 01:12:49.680
I drive? He's like, just stay and Pete over here,

1378
01:12:50.119 --> 01:12:53.880
he's gonna wave you down. So I'm driving through the

1379
01:12:53.920 --> 01:12:57.399
car wash and drive and then I'm so like, you know,

1380
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:02.039
anxious and like the like my window is rolled down

1381
01:13:02.039 --> 01:13:04.239
because I'm like talk like Pete's like talking me through

1382
01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:06.439
the line, and then like it's so hitting me in

1383
01:13:06.479 --> 01:13:10.680
the face, and finally, like I get down to the

1384
01:13:10.760 --> 01:13:13.840
end of the line, I'm just like I wanted to die.

1385
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:16.760
And then Pete's like so nice. It's like just go

1386
01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:19.119
sit over there and look at your instructor's manual and

1387
01:13:19.159 --> 01:13:21.079
then just come right through. We'll just wave you through

1388
01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:23.000
a no big deal. And I was like, oh, that's okay,

1389
01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:24.760
I'll do that. So then I'm sitting there and I'm like,

1390
01:13:24.800 --> 01:13:27.720
oh my god, and I'm like still pressing all his buttons,

1391
01:13:27.760 --> 01:13:29.800
and I know you guys think I'm an idiot, which

1392
01:13:29.880 --> 01:13:33.239
you're not wrong. So anyway, I just and then Pete

1393
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:35.239
which isn't really his name, but he comes out and

1394
01:13:35.239 --> 01:13:36.640
he's like are you all right? And he's like giving

1395
01:13:36.680 --> 01:13:39.840
me a towel, and like these are the nicest people ever.

1396
01:13:40.239 --> 01:13:42.920
And the person at Meyer also couldn't have been sweeter.

1397
01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:46.039
So here I am just like, you know, wanting to

1398
01:13:46.199 --> 01:13:49.920
like move to Idaho, because that's that's how I like,

1399
01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:52.439
ten fifteen years ago, I would have been like I

1400
01:13:52.479 --> 01:13:54.840
can't live here anymore because these people are gonna know

1401
01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:58.199
what an idiot I am. So anyway, are Yeah, he

1402
01:13:58.279 --> 01:14:00.880
was really nice. And then I was like I had

1403
01:14:00.880 --> 01:14:03.119
some other couple of other arrands and I'm like, maybe

1404
01:14:03.119 --> 01:14:04.760
I'll just come back, and I was gonna ask you

1405
01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:06.600
to like maybe go with me, because I seriously was

1406
01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:09.119
just like, you know, I just needed to get out

1407
01:14:09.159 --> 01:14:11.079
of there. So then I was like, I'm gonna go

1408
01:14:11.119 --> 01:14:13.880
to the mall. You would think I would just go home, yeah,

1409
01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:17.119
But then I just said, you remember you got me

1410
01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:20.319
like this nice bracelet on Valentine's Day and it's April

1411
01:14:20.319 --> 01:14:21.760
and I still haven't a return, and I'm like, they're

1412
01:14:21.760 --> 01:14:25.119
never gonna take it back. Yeah, but that was a

1413
01:14:25.199 --> 01:14:27.600
very pleasant experience when I went to the jewelry store

1414
01:14:27.640 --> 01:14:30.199
and they gladly like, you know, let me exchange it

1415
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:32.960
and offered me a job, which was very nice. Yeah.

1416
01:14:32.960 --> 01:14:34.720
I was like, well, she's like, oh, you don't need

1417
01:14:34.760 --> 01:14:36.880
a podcast with your husband anymore, come work for us.

1418
01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:40.000
It was that was really sweet. But then as I'm

1419
01:14:40.079 --> 01:14:44.399
leaving the mall, which our mall is like pretty much

1420
01:14:44.800 --> 01:14:47.640
deserted and abandoned at this point. Yeah, it's really sad.

1421
01:14:47.720 --> 01:14:50.680
But leaving the mall and there's a goose and this

1422
01:14:50.720 --> 01:14:53.640
guy looks at me. He's like like, be careful. That

1423
01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:58.079
goose is is really fierce. And I was like I

1424
01:14:58.239 --> 01:14:59.920
just laught and I was like, well, thanks, but I

1425
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:05.239
I think I can handle a goose. Spoiler alert, I could.

1426
01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:07.600
Not handle the geese are scary.

1427
01:15:07.760 --> 01:15:09.680
Oh my gosh. I was like, I have like my

1428
01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:12.039
like of a nice big person. I was like, I'll

1429
01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:14.159
just I almost hit the goose with the person because

1430
01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:15.960
I'm like trying to like walk by it. And I

1431
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:17.920
was just kind of like laughing at the guy, and

1432
01:15:17.960 --> 01:15:20.680
the goose is like hissing at me, like running for me.

1433
01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:25.039
So I made it to my car, but it was

1434
01:15:25.119 --> 01:15:25.800
really scary.

1435
01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:26.560
What a day.

1436
01:15:26.920 --> 01:15:29.119
Yeah, So then I came home and everything was okay.

1437
01:15:29.239 --> 01:15:33.479
Well I went to Costco, but it was pretty much Casco. Yeah.

1438
01:15:33.520 --> 01:15:35.479
But anyway, well, I will say I took your car

1439
01:15:35.760 --> 01:15:38.079
into a car wash once and I had the exact

1440
01:15:38.079 --> 01:15:41.119
same experience the guy. It was the same thing, different

1441
01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:43.520
car washed, but the guy like was leaning in trying.

1442
01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:44.960
We were trying to figure it out. We were there

1443
01:15:45.000 --> 01:15:47.119
for five minutes trying to figure out what button to push.

1444
01:15:47.279 --> 01:15:50.079
Well, I think there's two different buttons that can have

1445
01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:53.039
the same fact, and I think I have it figured

1446
01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:56.720
out now, but I'm not. After some therapy, maybe I'm

1447
01:15:56.760 --> 01:15:58.359
gonna be able to go through a car wash again.

1448
01:15:58.399 --> 01:16:00.279
But that is just the kind of person and like

1449
01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:02.760
I hate to put anyone out. So the fact that

1450
01:16:02.800 --> 01:16:05.640
people were lining up behind me and these poor guys

1451
01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:10.119
were could not have been nicer. So it was all

1452
01:16:10.199 --> 01:16:13.760
just making me like, oh my gosh, I'm an idiot.

1453
01:16:13.800 --> 01:16:16.039
And that is why you don't need to ever leave

1454
01:16:16.079 --> 01:16:20.760
your house. People have your groceries to let hurt wash

1455
01:16:20.800 --> 01:16:22.720
your car at home. I don't know anyway.

1456
01:16:23.079 --> 01:16:25.279
Wow, that is a crazy day.

1457
01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:28.399
Thank you so much to listener Amanda for recommending this case.

1458
01:16:28.479 --> 01:16:31.880
Thank you to Ann for the Intemen snack. Thanks for

1459
01:16:32.079 --> 01:16:35.960
KK for the pretzel recommendation. You listeners are such a

1460
01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:38.800
big part of our show and we truly love you

1461
01:16:39.039 --> 01:16:41.279
and we appreciate you and you're the best.

1462
01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:43.239
Yeah, we really do. Thank you so much.

1463
01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:46.880
Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media,

1464
01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:50.960
or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com,

1465
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:54.760
and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Please

1466
01:16:54.760 --> 01:16:58.119
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1467
01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:01.479
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1468
01:17:01.560 --> 01:17:04.960
and a monthly bonus episode which we will be recording

1469
01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:09.000
very soon. Until next time, don't kill your wife and

1470
01:17:09.039 --> 01:17:10.000
don't kill your husband.