Amy and Stephen Allwine

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's. That some days you'll feel like killing your. Wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina. How are you? I'm doing good? How are you today? I'm good, I'm good. Today is the season finale of White Lotus. Oh, yes, and normally we watched a couple of days later, but we've all agreed that we're going to stay up and watch it tonight.

0:41 Yeah, because it's going to be hard not to hear any spoilers. That show has been like everywhere, I feel. Like wildfire, and it's been fun. I think as a society we have less collective experiences. Yeah, and with a successions Severance and White Lotus, it seems like people are really loving. The same thing, like you. Those two shows seem to have like really latched on to everybody's consciousness. So apparently we're not the only ones that want to pay for every single streaming service available we have. It's ridiculous how much we're paying for and we still have cable because we're dinosaurs. Yeah, but actually well, we are dinosaurs, but it's for sports mostly, right, Yeah, yeah, but any do you have any predictions for.

1:24 The White Lotus finale. I don't know. I think everyone is saying that Chelsea. That is yeah, she has Amy. Lewwood's character that she is going to get. She's so great. Yeah, she is awesome. Season has been. It's just great and I want to kind of like rewatch it because you're so focused on the story that I think you miss a lot of the cinematography and the music and kind of the hints and the clue. So if you haven't watched White Lotus, it is. Really really well done. Well what is your prediction, Oh, people will be listening to this after it's over. Yeah, I mean, I hate to give any spoilers, just fast forward, you know, ten seconds ahead. I had heard like this season is about threes, and that kind of made sense, like it's possible that three people could possibly die, like and Chelsea keeps saying like bad things happen in threes, so possibly something like that. I don't know, but I've heard that Mike White may have written it like in a after a fever dream or something, and he stayed true to whatever happened in his fever dream.

2:28 M Okay, well, anyway, unexpected that, right, So. I did bring you a snack that one of our sweety pie listeners sent us. Sweetie sweety pie listener. They're else. They're all sweety pies. I just love them all so much. But this comes from our friend Ann from port Chester, New York. Gonna you're gonna like these, I'm gonna be pretty excited. She sent us a couple of different things from Intimates, oh excellent or Intimates. I think it's Intimates. Yeah, there's like an en in there. But yeah there's an but I don't know if you say it. I don't know either, but I don't care. They taste really good. So what did she send us? These little like twinkie like things with like this big honk of chocolate on the top and crumb cakes. I mean these these are good good stuff. Yeah, try real quick.

3:18 I sure did. The two things that you sampled are fudge iced golden cakes and many crumb cakes. Okay, so what do you raise all the both delicious? Yeah, they're really me What would you rate the golden cakes the twinkie like things? I would give it a nine out of ten, only because I wish it had filling. And I agree with you one hundred percent. I thought the exact same thing, because you just because it's such like a Twinkie like consistency. I think it's your fault because you said it's like a Twinkie and I thought, Okay, it's like a Twinkie. That means there's going to be filling. But it was still very good.

3:59 Yeah, very good. And what do you rate the mini crumb case. I'm going to give that a ton out of ten. That was really good. I think. I think Anne thought that we didn't have Intimin's here, but we do, and it's kind of something that we didn't have growing up very often, but when we did, it was, you know, kind of like a special occasion. They have donuts and coffee cakes, and I think they have chocolate chip cookies, but it's kind of very close to homemade I think. I mean, they're definitely processed, but they taste. I think they're much better than like a Little Debbie I would say, yeah, I think so, no offense to a Little Debbie, because she does a lot of great things over there in her bakery too. But they are a little more authentic. Maybe yeah, they taste a little fresher. I think, well, thank you so much, and we really appreciate Yeah.

4:40 Thanks Ann Well, I have. Got a pretty incredible case to tell you about today. Our listener Amanda recommended this case, and I was working on a different case that our writer, researcher Owen did for us that I should have been presenting. But when a listener recommends a case, I usually try to give it a quick Google just so before I put it in our document, just so I get an idea of what it was. And I just started researching this case, and before I knew it, I had three thousand words of notes and it's just a really interesting case. So thank you Amanda for recommending this case, and thank you to everyone that's recommended a case. You guys always recommend the best cases to us. Sunday, November thirteenth, twenty sixteen, started quietly in the all Wine home. The family, as usual, had spent the entire day at church on Saturday. It was part of the routine Saturday services faith structure. From the outside, they look like the picture perfect good Christian family.

5:34 That evening, Stephen and their ten year old son Joe had dinner at Culver's, like they did on most Sundays, while Amy held her dog training class. I always forget that we have a lot of people that listen to us internationally. Tell us what Culver's is really quickly. I mean it's it's kind of fast food, but it's a little step up above. But it's burgers and milkshakes. Do you even have like pot roast? I think on that. Yeah, they have kind of some more like home cooking tight stuff there, but they may be good. What are their blizzard like things called. Called concrete mixers. So yeah, it's like custard with candy mixed stamps. Yeah, colors. It's good, It's really good. It's yeah, it's uh, it feels like you're eating you're still eating fast food, but like you said, it's just a higher quality. When they returned home around seven thirty pm, Joe ran into the house looking for Amy. As he walked down the hallway toward the primary bedroom, he was confused by what he saw. Amy was lying in the doorway of her bedroom.

6:28 In an instant, everything changed and Joe's life was turned upside down. Amy Allwine, forty three, was lying on the floor, half in and half out of the doorway, her eyes open and her pants un zipped. She wasn't moving. Joe called out for his father, Yeah, why is mom sleeping on the floor. Stephen rushed to his son's side. Blood pulled beneath Amy's head, soaking the carpet. There was a gun on the floor near the crook of Amy's left arm, but Amy was right handed. It was a small detail, easy to miss, but in time it would unravel every thing. Stephen called nine to one one. Just six months earlier, on May thirty first, the FBI had come to Amy's door with a warning someone was trying to hire a hitman to kill her on the dark Web. She couldn't imagine who would want her dead, but now she was.

7:14 And the threat hadn't come from some shadowy figure online. It had been inside the house all along. It's really scary having the FBI come to your door and tell you a hit man is trying to punt you down. And she's a very nice, just middle aged mom, just going about her life, and yeah, she has this shocking threat. Wow, do you know much about the dark Web? I sure don't. I mean, I know what it is. And if you've never visited the door. I've never been on the dark Web. I have not either, and I was tempted to for this case, but I still have not. The dark web has called that for a reason. It's where the underbelly of society exists, a hotbed of a legal activity, some of it seriously disgusting and disturbing and impossible to be policed, a digital wild wild West, the Internet's evil twin. The origins of the dark Web can be traced back to the late twentieth century, born not from crime or conspiracy, but from the government's desire for secrecy. In the nineteen nineties, researchers at the US Naval Research Laboratory developed a technology called the Onion Routing or TOR tour for short. It was designed to protect classified communications by making them anonymous and untraceable as they traveled across the Internet. It's not easily accessible to the average Internet user. You need to download special software called Tour to access it, and it's not indexed by Google, Being or Yahoo, making it challenging to use. TOR anonymizes users by routing their Internet traffic through multiple servers worldwide, making it difficult to track their

8:48 identities or locations. The dark Web uses its own search engines called hidden wiki or grams. The dark Web is largely used for illegal and illicit activity, often used as a marketplace to buy weapons, drugs, and stolen identities, hire a hitman or hacker, or to view pornography, snuff films, and live torture anonymously. Despite its reputation, not everything on the Dark Web is illicit. Whistle Blowers, journalists and activists, and oppressive regimes use it to communicate securely and share censored information. Well, like I said, I knew a little bit about the Dark Web, but not a whole lot. So that's even I'm even more terrified about it now that you've explained a little bit more.

9:33 Yeah, me too. It just sounds very scary, and you know, like I said, so many illegal activities occur there, and a lot of not so great people, I think, yeah, are hanging out on the dark Web, But not everyone who goes to the dark Web, you know, is a person. But sure a lot of bad things happen there, especially when it comes to victimization and. Human trafficking and things like that. Yeah, it's really really horrible. Amy Louise Zotz was born on December tenth, nineteen seventy two, in Woodbury, Minnesota, to devout Christian fundamentalist parents who were members of the Worldwide Church of God. Amy grew up with an older sister and a younger brother in a household where faith dictated every aspect of their lives. Although Amy and her siblings attended public school in Woodbury, they were not permitted to socialize or participate in extracurricular activities outside of their church community. Within the Worldwide Church of God, Amy thrived. While her public school classmates found her a little unusual, she was well liked among her church peers.

10:35 She was a cheerleader for the Worldwide Church of God basketball team and frequently had sleepovers with her two best friends. After the death of the church's founder, Herbert Armstrong in nineteen eighty six, the Worldwide Church of God leadership moved away from his teachings and embraced mainstream Protestant theology, leading to a schism in the church, resulting in the formation of several splinter groups. Amy and her family joined the group United Church of God, which retained many of Armstrong's founding beliefs. The church shares much with Seventh Day Adventists. They observed Saturday as the Sabbath, a day of rest and worship based on the biblical account of God resting on the seventh day of creation. The church shares some beliefs with Jehovah's witnesses, particularly in its rejection of certain mainstream Christian traditions. The Worldwide Church of God views Christmas and Easter as pagan holidays and does not observe them.

11:27 Members of the church were tightly bound and not permitted to marry outside of their faith. In nineteen ninety, Amy moved to Big Sandy, Texas to attend the now defunct Ambassador College, which was run by the Worldwide Church of God. The motto of the college was recapturing true Values. While at the college, Amy met Stephen Alwine while working in the IT department together. Stephen was born in March nineteen seventy three in Spokane, Washington. He had a large circle of friends from his church at the college, and soon Amy was befriended by the group, and she and Stephen began dating. Amy and Stephen both enjoyed dancing and attending church social events. We don't know a lot about Stephen's background, but we don't really need to know much about Stephen.

12:12 In the summer of nineteen ninety six, Amy and Stephen were married. They moved to Saint Paul, Minnesota, to be closer to Amy's family. The couple spent every Friday night at Amy's parents house for family dinner. Amy always brought desrt which was frequently her mother's favorite strawberry pie. On Saturdays, the all Wines typically spent the entire day at church. Amy and her family believed in spreading the Word of God and often traveled to other countries as missionaries. In nineteen ninety nine, Amy went to Ukraine on a medical mission, assisting doctors and dentists with their work. Amy worked as a dog trainer and Stephen worked as an it expert. The all Wines settled in Cottage Grove and bought twenty eight acres of land that backed up to a nature preserve.

12:53 They erected a prefabricated house on their lot in hopes of later building their dream house. Cottage Grove is a growing sun located about ten miles southeast of Saint Paul within the Twin Cities metro area. It offers a nice balance between suburban living and easy access to big city amenities. The community is known for being family friendly, with safe neighborhoods, good schools, and a strong sense of community. There are over thirty parks and more than one hundred miles of trails, making at a great place for outdoor activities. Popular spots like Cottage Grove, Ravine Regional Park, and River Oaks Golf Course are local favorites. While many residents commute to jobs in nearby cities, The local economy includes opportunities in healthcare, education, manufacturing, and technology. Originally settled in the mid eighteen hundreds, Cottage Grove has kept its small town charm while continuing to grow.

13:44 The population is currently around forty one thousand and steadily increasing as more people discover all the city has to offer. Sounds like a lovely place, you know. I've never been to Minnesota, but it just sounds like it's a lovely place to live. It really does. I've been to the Minneapolis Airport many times, but I've never been outside of the airport. On Amy and Stephen's property, there was a large barn four times the size of their house, which the all Lines renovated to accommodate the needs of Amy's growing dog training business, Active Dog Sports Training LLC. Amy and Stephen had two dogs, a Newfoundland named Oolson and an Australian shepherd named George. Stephen didn't care much for the dogs and wasn't involved in Amy's business. Stephen was known for his intelligence and technical skills. He installed solar panels on the roof of their home and transformed their basement into a fully equipped home office, allowing him to work remotely.

14:37 He's an it guy known for his intelligence and technical skills. So somebody who might know how to navigate the dark web. Maybe, why are you always trying to put the car before the horse? I'm sorry. In two thousand and six, Amy and Stephen both became church deacons. They were very young to hold this honor, but it was indicative of their dedication to the church. Steven continued to rise in the church ranks and became a church elder. As a church elder, he counseled married couples, wrote and presented sermons, sometimes traveling to other churches. Divorce was not acceptable in the church. Couples were expected to work out their differences and stay together and their spare time. Amy and Stephen loved to dance. They created their own website, all wine dot net that demonstrated church approved songs and dances with limited physical contact. Songs with curse words, inappropriate themes, or love between unmarried people were forbidden. They carefully listened to and interpreted song lyrics before adding them to their list.

15:35 I saw some videos of Stephen and Amy dancing together, and it's not quite as use it sounds. Yeah, I mean, they looked like they were having a good time. Unable to conceive a child naturally, Amy and Stephen adopted a baby boy they named Joe in October two thousand and seven, when he was just two days old. It was an open adoption adoption. It's probably different in different circumstances, but I think it allows for communication between the biological parents and the adoptive parents. Oh okay, I don't think they necessarily have visitation, but I think they get sent pictures. Okay, so it's not like secretive of who the parents are or anything like that. Amy had a deep love for animals, especially dogs, and a natural talent for working with them. Her kind heart, positive spirit, and natural talent with both dogs and people quickly set her apart in the world of dog training.

16:26 Through hard work and genuine warmth, she became a respective leader in her field and her business flourished. Known for her sunny disposition, generosity, and bright smile, Amy brought light to everyone around her. She saw the best in people and never passed judgment. Her passion for dogs led her to the world of agility competitions, where she quickly became a beloved and enthusiastic member of the community. Amy's Australian shepherd excelled in competitions, which earned her admiration and respect, and prompted others to seek her expertise in training their own dogs. As her reputation grew, Amy decided to turn her past into a business and founded Active Dog Sports Training to share her knowledge and skills with others. As much as Amy loved agility training and competing, she knew the intensity wasn't for everyone. She never pressured anyone to join the team. When nosework became the newest dog trend, Amy quickly rose to the top of the sport. It was a good alternative for dogs and owners who wanted to compete in canine sports but lacked the energy or mechanics of intense agility competitions. A former friend and client said quote, she could bring out the best in all of us. We'd make crazy mistakes with our dogs, and she'd find some funny way for us to learn about ourselves and us as a team. She was great.

17:41 It's maybe a dumb question, but you said that nosework was a new trend. There are no those dumb questions. It's a sport in which your dog tries to identify assent with only their nose. While it can be just a recreational game, it's also a competitive sport in which many dog owners participate. Nosework requires mind training for scent identification. Interesting. I have such fond memories of going We used to go to the Howell Balloon Fest every year and we would see the rock and roll canines. Yeah, and that was one of our favorite things to do every summer. We haven't seen them in a few years. Yeah, they have like the big obstacle cords and the dogs would compete and. Run around amazing. So I think this would be a really fun job and just really rewarding. And you know, people who love dogs are great people. And as you can tell, like you know, we always try to pay homage to our victims and describe them, you know, as good people. But Amy was really a wonderful woman. Yeah, and very kind and generous, and everyone loved Amy. Amy's priorities were church, family, and dogs, in that order. To those who knew them, Amy and Stephen seemed like a rock solid couple. They were affectionate, supportive, and genuinely happy.

18:52 Members of their church looked up to them well. Stephen didn't share Amy's deep love for dogs. They each pursued their own passions with mutual respect. But beneath the surface of their seemingly perfect marriage, something wasn't quite right. On the morning of May thirty first, twenty sixteen, in Cottage Grove, Minnesota, two men arrived quietly at the home of the all Wines. One was Asher Silky, an FBI agent from the Minneapolis Field office. The other police Detective Terry Raymond, Cottage Grove's designated computer forensics specialist. They knocked on the front door of the modest home and asked to speak with Amy Alwine. Her husband Stephen answered. He was calm, polite, if not socially awkward. He told them that Amy wasn't home. The agents didn't press. They simply asked that she come to the station as soon as possible.

19:40 No urgency in their tone, no explanation, just a request. Is everything okay? Stephen seemed concerned. Now is Amy in trouble? No, we just have an important matter to discuss with her. The FBI agent replied. If an FBI agent knocked on your front door, don't you think you. Would I would be freaking out completely. And you would be like Tina's upstairs, go get her. Yes. What no one outside law enforcement knew at that moment was this. The FBI had uncovered something deeply disturbing, something that suggested Amy's life might be in danger. A secret investigation was already underway and time was running out.

20:20 When Amy and Stephen went to the police station, they took Amy into a private room. What they told her next would change everything. Someone, they said, was trying to have her killed. Her photo her face was posted on a dark website called Besa Mafia, a shadowy marketplace allegedly run by the Albanian mob. It was a place where people could put a price on someone's life, where you didn't just imagine revenge, you could buy it. And Amy's name was there. The post had gone up months earlier, on February fourteenth, twenty sixteen, Valentine's Day, while most people were celebrating love, someone using the name dog Day God was plotting a murder. They uploaded Amy's photo and left chilling instructions make it look like an accident. Amy sat there and stunned silence. She couldn't think, couldn't speak. She had no idea who would want her dead or why, but someone out there did, and they were serious and unrelenting.

21:18 Amy was certain she didn't have any enemies, at least that's what she told herself, but after hearing someone wanted her dead, doubts started to creep in. She replayed every interaction, every relationship, every offhand comment, scrolling through her brain for something she might have missed, someone she might have overlooked. Who would do this to her and why. The FBI pressed her to make a list anyone in her life who might bear a grudge, clients, colleagues, friends, anyone. It felt impossible, but eventually Amy gave them a few names. The FBI's best guess was that someone was after Amy's business, jealous of her success and the connections that she so easily made reuctantly. She included her best friend Sharon, then fellow dog trainers Gail and Kristen, people she trusted, people who were part of her everyday life. One person not on Amy's list or the FBI's radar was her loving husband, Stephen.

22:14 Seems a little surprising to me that the FBI would not consider her husband a suspect in this. I agree the idea that one of these people might be plotting her murder. It was unthinkable out of everyone. Both Amy and her husband Stephen thought the signs seemed to point most toward Kristin. She had helped Amy set up her computer network and manage her online presence. She also looked after the all Wines dogs whenever they were out of town, and her child would sometimes play with the Allwines son. But when the FBI interviewed Sharon, Gail, and Kristin, none of them seemed to have any reason to want Amy harmed. It truly didn't seem like Amy had any enemies. Still, the anonymous online figure known as dog day God claimed otherwise, saying Amy had stolen clients, had an affair with her husband, and destroyed her life. Amy was stunned. She had never had an affair, and she wasn't the type to compete with other trainers for business and cheating. That simply wasn't part of who she was, especially not with her religious beliefs.

23:15 The law enforcement agents recommended that the all Wines install a security system and surveillance cameras, which they did. In June, Stephen applied for a permit to purchase a handgun as well as a concealed carry permit. In August, he bought a Springfield nine millimeter handgun. They went to a shooting range to practice with the gun. Amy and Stephen decided to keep the murder plot to themselves. Amy didn't even tell her parents, who she was extremely close to. Amy slept with the handgun under her mattress and Stephen slept with a shotgun on his side of the bed. We'll be back after a break. In December twenty fifteen, a mysterious website called called Basa Mafia appeared on the Dark Web, claiming to be a murder for hire service. Basa Mafia, run by a shadowy figure named Eura, worked differently than other marketplaces on the Dark Web. If you were looking to have someone killed, you'd post the job and Basa Mafia would find the best operative based on skill and location to complete the job. Basa Mafia acted as an intermediary and held payment in escrow until the job was complete.

24:26 They claimed to have operatives worldwide. Bas of Mafia was different from a lot of hit men's sites. Their reputation was based on completed work and satisfied patrons. It advertised itself as a global network of professional hit men ready to take out targets in exchange for cryptocurrency, usually bitcoin. It operated through the tour network and marketed itself with an eerie sense of legitimacy with testimonials from clients. Quote, this was the third time my husband cheated on me. I got tired of his beating and threats. Thank you Basa Mafia for the perfect opportunity and smooth murder. It was all made to look like an accident and now I don't have to be afraid ever again. He was threatening that he would kill me if I submitted divorce papers.

25:08 Now he is the one who is dead, signed happy woman. Wow. I don't know whether to laugh or get no terrified about that whole thing. Yeah, the site looked like something out of a thriller movie. The header said quote, if you want to kill someone or beat the shit out of him, we are the right guys. Users could browse options for hiring someone to carry out violent acts, anything from arson to beatings, even murder. Payments were requested in bitcoin to make tracing transactions harder. The name Basa comes from an Albanian word meaning oath or honor, likely an attempt to give the site a mafia like aura of loyalty and secrecy to build trust with potential clients. Base of Mafia published reviews and success stories across the dark web.

25:54 They even offered a way for users to make money by submitting tips on potential targets. And people wonder why we don't post pictures of ourselves online? Yeah, dog day God wrote to Eura, quote, they say that besa means trust, so please don't break that for reasons that are too personal and would give away my identity. I need this bitch dead. This bitch has torn my family apart by sleeping with my husband. She is about five foot six and she looks about two hundred pounds. Dog Day God continued by providing Amy's travel schedule and vehicle information. The best time to kill her, dog Day God explained was during an upcoming trip to Moline, Illinois for an agility competition. Dog Day God asked how to submit payment anonymously. Eura said to pay in bitcoin and recommended using local bitcoins dot com or coinbase dot com.

26:48 Eura would hold payment until the job was finished. The price for the hit was ten thousand dollars, but after some haggling, they agreed on six thousand dollars. The hit man would run into Amy with a rental car. Dog Day God requested that the killer hit Amy on the driver's side to ensure a greater impact that would more likely result in her death. Dog Day God said Amy would have a traveling companion with her, and it was okay if they were also killed. Ura instructed dog Day God to be sure they created an alibi for themselves. That day, were surrounded by people and were seen on surveillance cameras far away from Amy. Dog Day God submitted the bitcoin payment, but on the day of the planned hit March twentieth, twenty sixteen, the hit man balked and didn't show up. Bas A Mafia cautioned their customers that the hit men they used were often criminals and gang members, and sometimes weren't reliable. Who would have thought that a hit end wouldn't always be reliable? Please notice eighty percent of our hit men are gang gang members who do drug dealing, beatings, and occasional murder. Eura suggested dog Day God hire a more skilled, dependable hit man, an ex military chechen sniper. For an additional six thousand dollars, they would go to Amy's home to kill her, and that would likely have a better outcome. Furthermore, for an additional two thousand dollars, the hit man would also burn down the house, destroying any evidence. Dog Day God agreed the latter would be the best approach. Dog Day God had one request. I asked that you only get her and

28:18 not the dad or kid. But the planned day came and went and Amy was still alive. They arranged another date that too came and went, with Amy still alive and untouched. Dog Day God was growing impatient and sent you another message. I realized that things happen, but this bitch has torn my family apart by sleeping with my husband, who then left me, and is stealing clients from my business. I have had to continue to act like a friend to get information, and I cannot do it anymore. I have gone out of my way to try and get you good information. I feel that I am at risk of being suspected if I ask too many more questions. You have had three good attempts at her, and none of them have worked. I like the idea of shoes hoting and fire because I think it would look like a robbery and a cover up. But I'm at the point that I do not care how it's done. I believe that if I go about my regular routine that I will not be a suspect. If it's not done in some way by May first, then I would like my money back. Does that sound like enough time for you?

29:16 I cannot get my hopes built up again like I did this weekend. I don't care about date or method. You have her picture and address, so you can tell her or do whatever you need to do to get the job done. I do know that she is going to take a trip to Atlanta the weekend of April seventh through tenth, but I do not know the details. I also was passing by recently when they had the garage door open, and I was able to see that they have three five gallon gas cans just outside the door from the house to the garage, and what looked like a propane tank as well. I'm not sure if any of them are full, but they are there. Thanks for your help with this. I need her out of my life so I can move on. You're a sympathized quote. I am really sorry to hear what she did. Yes, she really is a bit and she deserved to die.

30:01 There was a link a little bit of a language barrier. I think Ura did a pretty good job. Sometimes some of the communications are a little broken English. Yeah. On May first, dog Day God offered another twenty five thousand dollars if the hit could be expedited. Dog Day God even took to Reddit and wrote a negative review of Besa Mafia. Urra replied with a terse message and demanded the review be deleted, but promised it would be done soon. But when May twentieth rolled around and Amy was still alive, dog Day God was finished with Basa Mafia and demanded a full refund. That's it. Your local guys suck. They cannot do simple things even when given plenty of time. I will try again later with one of your pros, but I would need to save up for that. Can you give me a quote of what I would need to work with a pro and then I will try to get a new order worked up in a couple months. Until then, please refund my money.

30:54 I know this is serious business we're talking about, but this whole exchange. Is just so it's ridicious, Like who do they think they're dealing with? Costco? Like, we well, give me no questions asked, we give you a refund. We had to refund you were a responded that the site had been hacked and unless they sent another ten Bitcoin, which was about seven thousand dollars at that time, they would release the one hundred and forty messages between them and EURA to the FBI. There was no further communications between EURA and dog Day God. It wasn't long before the FBI got involved, and what they uncovered was both a relief and a twist. Base of Mafia was a scam. They didn't employ real hitmen, They never intended to kill Amy.

31:37 The entire operation was a dark web con designed to exploit desperation and greed. But that didn't mean Amy was safe. That makes me feel a little better that that is a scam. I'm sure there are other sites where you can do that sort of thing. But still, whoever was behind the screen name dog Day God had paid over thirteen thousand dollars to have her killed. Money was gone stolen by a cyber criminal aimed Eura, who never planned to deliver. And while Amy's life hadn't been taken, her sense of security had As for dog Day God, they were confident, cocky even they thought they'd erase their digital footprints, thought they were untouchable. They were wrong. Behind a slick interface and criminal branding of bass A Mafia, the reality was far less cinematic. There's no confirmed evidence that any of the requested crimes were ever actually carried out.

32:28 In many cases, people who tried to use the site were either ghosted after paying or blackmailed with their own messages. Things fell apart in twenty sixteen when a major data breach exposed base of Mafia's inner workings. Hackers released a trow of internal messages, bitcoin transaction logs, and user records. These leaks showed conversations between clients and site admins discussing planned crimes, giving law enforcement agencies a gold mine of leads. As a result, several people who tried to hire criminals through that site were arrested. The downfall of bas A Mafia served as a warning the dark web is full of scams that prey on people looking for illegal services.

33:09 It also showed that digital breadcrumbs, even anonymous ones, can be traced, especially with tools like cryptocurrency tracking and data analysis. While bas A Mafia is long gone, similar websites continue to pop up on the dark web. Some are scams like bas A Mafia, Others maybe law enforcement sting operations waiting to catch would be criminals in the act. After bas A Mafia was exposed, Eura allegedly went on to launch several other lookalike Hitman for Higher sites, including Camora Hitmen, Kosa Nostra International, and Hitman Network, all of which turned out to be scams as well. While Euro's real identity remains a mystery, some cybersecurity experts believe they might be from Eastern Europe, possibly Albania or Romania, based on their writing style. There's even speculation that Era wasn't one person at all, but a group working under the same name.

34:06 Despite Eur never being formally identified or arrested. Law enforcement agencies like the FBI and Europool have used leaked data from Bassa Mafia to investigate and arrest people who tried to hire criminals through the site. The case stands as a reminder that even in the anonymous corners of the Internet, there are ways for investigators to track down cyber criminals and those who hire them. Even now, euroscams or copycats inspired by them continue to surface across the dark Web, proving the hitman for hire fraud remains one of the more disturbing trends in cybercrime. After the FBI suggested that the all Wines install a security system, they set up multiple motion activated cameras around their property. However, the camera on the back of their home where the dogs went in and out of the house, was never activated, and as time passed without incident, the all Wines became lax about setting the alarm. But in June, Amy called the police after noticing an unfamiliar blue van parked outside of their house. It was a false alarm. It was just someone parked who was visiting the park near their property, but it just showed that Amy was still on high alert.

35:15 Oh I can imagine you would be. On July twenty fourth, twenty sixteen, Amy received an untraceable email from Jane Doe at rediffmail dot com from the dark web. Rediff I believe is based in India. Quote, Amy, I still blame you for my life falling apart. I don't know how a fat bitch like you got my husband, but because of you, he left and my life has become shit. I'm sending you this email because it looks like you already know about me. I see you put up a security system now and are being informed by people on the Internet that people were snooping around my earlier emails. I have been assured the emails are untraceable and they won't find me, but I cannot attack you directly without them watching. Here's what's going to happen. Since I cannot get to you, I will go after everything else that you love. I know about your son, your husband, and your business. And thanks to the Internet, I see you have a father and a mother in Woodbury, a brother in Saint Paul, and a sister in Yardley, Pennsylvania.

36:13 I have been busy researching topics on the Internet, and I've found that if you inject water into a car break line, you will cause them to fail. What would happen if the breaks in your husband's truck failed when he was hauling a heavy load. I've found how to blow up a gas meter and make it seem like an accident. I know the meter on your house and business is set on the east side, and that the meter on your parents' house is on the south side. I'm still watching your family. While I did not see your son this week, I saw last Friday that he was wearing a bright pink shirt. I see he moved into the RV. Here's how you can save your family commit suicide. If you do not, you will slowly see things being taken away from you, and each time you will know that you could have stopped it, which will eat you apart from the inside. By the time I am done, you will want to end it anyway. So why not do it now and save them? I think it's an easy choice. One life to save six lives.

37:06 I think it's an easy choice. Your family does not need you, but you can save them. The best ways to do it are a shotgun to the head, cyanide gunshot to the chest, explosives hit by a train, jump from a height, inhaling household toxins or gas, slitting your wrists or throat. Remember, if you don't get it right the first time, then you will be likely committed for mental health issues, and you will lose your business and possibly your family. So I would pick a reliable method. Do not tell anyone about this email, or the deal is off and I will come for your family unless you're heartless, selfish bitch that I can expect to see your obituary in the paper and the next couple of weeks. That is a terrifying email. Isn't that a horrible I can't even imagine getting something like that?

37:50 Uh so scary. Amy followed her religion closely, and taking one's life was strictly forbidden. The lifelong migraines that Amy had suffered from now worsened with this new stress in her life. On July thirty first, Amy received another threatening, untraceable email from Jane Amy. Your family is in danger. Last Sunday you received an email with a solution to this problem, and you have not done anything about it. Are you so selfish that you will put your family's lives at risk if you do not receive the email, then check your check your junk mails. Oh you check your junk mail people. Sorry, I'll laugh, but it's just so ridiculous. Amy, visibly distraught over the two anonymous email threats, called FBI agent Silky.

38:34 The two had become friends. Amy having no one to talk to about the threat on her life. Remember she wasn't telling family and friends about this, she confided in the FBI agent about the impact that death threat had on her and her family. When Silk arrived at the Awl Wines home, Stephen was prepared. He had printed out the threatening emails. Amy handed over her computer, hopeful it might contain clues that could help identify whoever was targeting her. Stephen also gave the agents a laptop and his Samsung Galaxy phone. The FBI created forensic images of the devices, capturing their apps, processes, and files, then returned them a day or two later. Agent Silke obtained credit reports for several of Amy's connections. While there appeared to be little financial incentive for anyone to want Amy dead, the fact that someone using the alias dog Day God had spent thousands of dollars to have her killed pointed to a deeply personal motive. Disturbingly, the person behind the plot had specifically told the hitman for hire Ura to spare Amy's husband, raising questions that naturally led investigators to consider Stephen as potential suspect. Agent Silky spoke with Stephen and conducted digital imaging of his devices, but the investigation into him didn't go any further. He was not considered a suspect. The FBI largely handled the investigation and kept the Cottage Grove Police Department out of the loop. Amy decided to enroll in an eight week Cottage Groves Citizens Police Department class to learn more about how they operated in hopes of keeping herself and her family safe. She didn't share the

40:07 threats in her life with others that ran the program or the attendees. When Amy's class was complete, she got to go on a ride along with the canine unit. Amy loved the experience and especially working with the police dogs. The officers and fellow participants loved working with Amy. They all celebrated by going out to dinner together after their graduation ceremony. Amy would be dead two weeks later. On Sunday, November thirteenth, twenty sixteen. Amy wasn't feeling well. She felt dizzy, tired, and nauseous. Stephen worked from home and did tech support for two companies, op Antics and Signa. On Sunday, he was scheduled to work tech support for op Antics from six am to five pm. He worked until noon, but records showed that he never logged back in after his lunch break. Amy's dad was at the house installing a new doggie door in the garage. He finished up around two pm and was about five minutes down the road when Stephen called and asked him if he could return to pick up Joe for the afternoon so that he could take Amy to urgent care. As the day progressed, Amy felt worse, but when Stephen asked her if she wanted to go to the doctor, she declined.

41:16 Amy asked another trainer to fill in for her classes. The class met on the All Wines property in their barn from about four thirty to five forty five. The students recalled hearing the screeching of tires peeling out of the All Wines driveway at some point. At five twenty nine pm, Stephen left to pick up Joe from Amy's parents for his weekly Ninja Warrior class at the local gym when he realized that he forgot to bring Joe's workout clothes, they decided to skip the class and instead went to Culver's for dinner, a weekly Sunday ritual for the pair. When they returned home, ten year old Joe ran into the house to see his mom and found Amy lying between the hallway and the primary bedroom. Her head lay in a pool of blood on the carpet, a nine millimeter handgun by her left side, a shell casing by her right foot. Joe ran to get his father.

42:06 Joe asked why Amy was sleeping on the floor, and Stephen responded, She's probably dead. Stephen called nine one one. I think my wife over It looks like you do. I don't know. I don't know. I just saw her and him blid. I can't tell where she's shut. I don't know. Are you going to be weary? That's one of the oddest nine one one calls we've heard. It is a very odd nine one one call. Both like his demeanor and his son. How old is his son?

42:51 I mean ten? Yeah, it's just it's heartbreaking to hear his son. I think I think the son hasn't processed what's going on. Yeah, it was a ten year world you wouldn't like at that point obviously, but it's just it's a strange call. His demeanor very odd. Yeah. Sergeant Gwen Martin, who had befriended Amy when she was in the Cottage Grove Citizens Police Department program, was one of the three responding officers. She burst into tears when she saw Amy sprawled on the floor, clearly dead. She went back to her cruiser to regain her composure and did a quick search on police calls to the all Wine home. She was shocked to see the report from five months earlier of the threat to Amy's life. She called Detective Randy McAllister and asked him to come to the crime scene as soon as possible. The agency responsible for investigating Amy's death now shifted back to the Cottage Grove Police Department because the crime had happened in their jurisdiction.

43:45 The FBI handed over the files that they had been keeping to themselves. The Cottage Grove police thought that things about the crime scene seemed off. To investigators, It looked less like a suicide and more like a carefully staged crime scene. Was near her left arm, but she was right handed. There was no blood or gunshot residue on her hands. There was dog hair everywhere through the house, but not in front of the bedroom door where Amy lay. That area of the floor seemed to have been recently cleaned. The wood floor was hazy, as if it had been wiped with a cleaning agent. Later, when luminol was applied to the area, it lit up like a Christmas tree. I should apologize for that bad similar there.

44:26 It's a bad simile. It strikes me as odd that someone would clean up this scene, like if they were trying to stage it like a suicide. It seems like you would just leave it without cleaning it up. Seems like that would be an obvious thing that police would pick up on. Mm hmm. Someone had cleaned up a lot of blood. The luminol also revealed footprints up and down the hallway. It appeared that Amy had been shot in the hallway and then moved closer to her bedroom. There was no blood spatter anywhere in the bedroom. If you were to shoot yourself to take your own life, you wouldn't do it in the middle of the hallway. Might lie down in a bed or a chair or something. Yeah, exactly. In the kitchen, pumpkins were cooking in a roasting oven on the counter for a pie that Amy was planning on baking. Later. Would someone be baking a pie if they planned on taking their life. I'm gonna say no. Amy's parents and their church pastor arrived at the house.

45:18 When Amy's parents saw her, which must have been so horrible to see, one of them first said, why would the gun be by her left side? She's right handed. Wow, that's a pretty perceptive. They were devastated, but also confused. Why would Amy take her own life? She loved her family, her church, her pets, and her career. Life was going well and there was no reason to suspect she was feeling suicidal, and there was no note. Amy seemed like one of the last people who would abruptly leave the world without leaving an explanation. Stephen went to the police station and agreed to provide his DNA and submit to a gunshot residue test. Later, it was revealed he tested positive for gunshot residue, but it well us on the low end. We'll be back after a break.

46:10 Before we jump back, I have a surprise for you halftime snack. Well, I brought you our listener KK. I don't think that's her name, that's just her Instagram handle recommended we try these and I am obsessed. They're so good. They are popums, light and crispy pretzel snacks by Snack Factory. I have two flavors for you. One is sea salt, the other is a golden mustard barbecue. I wanted the cheddar, but they must have been out and this is what they put in our grocery delivery order. So do you want to try the popums?

46:50 Yeah? For sure? What did you think of the popums? Really good And they don't look like pretzels at all, but they taste like pretzels. But yeah, I thought they were yummy, but. They're like a are or pretzel. I don't even know how to describe it. But definitely check them out if I just got them at Meyer, So I think they're readily available anywhere. Yeah, well, thanks for the halftime snack. You're welcome. Sometimes I get a snack and I can't wait for you to try it, So that's what happened here. Yeah, like I couldn't keep eating popums without sharing them with you. I see which flavor did you prefer. I think I like the Sea Salt one.

47:32 I like the Sea Salt ones a lot too. Yeah, what do you rate them? I would probably give them eight out of ten. I think i'd give the Sea Salt ones ten out of ten. I think we're too easy of graders, but just really like our snacks. Two days after Amy's death, police asked Stephen to come in for questioning. He arrived with his pastor and attorney. When asked if there was anyone who might want Amy dad, he mentioned Kristen again. She knew everything about the couple and to Amy's travel schedule. Kristen was interviewed, but again not considered a suspect. Steven admitted that Amy had a seven hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy. During the interview, Steven dropped a bombshell he'd been unfaithful in his marriage to Amy. You don't look at all surprised.

48:19 I am not at all surprised. He met someone on the dating website Ashley Madison. Oh, we haven't heard about Ashley Madison for a little while. Ashley Madison is famous for its slogan life is short, Have an affair, I didn't realize on Ashley Madison that women don't have to pay. I found this in research, not by going to their website. But women don't have to pay what men do? What do you think about that? It doesn't actually surprise me. I think it's like, you know places that like nightclubs that let women in for free but chargemount of cover. Yeah. Steven admitted to investigators that his first date ended in disaster when she left to go to the bathroom and never returned, but he had better luck on his second date in October twenty fifteen, with a woman named Michelle Woodward. Michelle, who suffered from extreme anxiety and depression, claimed Stephen that she was in an open marriage. They met at restaurants or coffee shops, and as a relationship, regressed at each other's houses if their spouses were away.

49:15 Stephen brought Michelle along on two work trips. Investigators interviewed Michelle, and she admitted that she had been intertwined with Stephen for several months. She had visited the all Wine home when Amy was out of town. She'd entered through the back door at Stephen's request to avoid their surveillance cameras. Michelle told law enforcement that she believed that Stephen was smart enough to pull off the plot to kill his wife and was capable of it. About a month before Amy's death, Stephen told Michelle that he decided to rededicate himself to his marriage. He claimed to detectives that the relationship had run its course. He and Michelle remained friends and saw each other occasionally. We were going to take a little Ashley Madison detour. The Ashley Madison hack was a massive cybersecurity breed that occurred in July twenty fifteen, exposing the personal data of millions of users from the controversial dating site designed for extramarital affairs. The site, owned by Avid Life Media now called Ruby Life, promised users anononymity and discretion.

50:17 Say not it, say it, anonymity. And what he said. However, a group of hackers known as the Impact Team infiltrated the company's servers and stole highly sensitive user information. The hackers initially demanded that the site be shut down, threatening to release the stolen data if their demands were not met. When the company refused, the hackers followed through leaking nearly thirty two million accounts on the Dark Web in August twenty fifteen. The data dump included names, user names, email addresses, credit card transactions, messages, and profile details. For so many men that were freaking out at that point in time. The breach had serious consequences for Ashley Madison's users, with many facing divorces, job losses, and public humiliation. Tragically, some individuals linked to the leak dyed by suicide, highlighting the devastating personal impact of the hack. In response, Ashley Madison faced multiple lawsuits, ultimately agreeing to a eleven point two million dollars settlement for affected users. Additionally, Avid Life Media was fined one point six million dollars for misleading users about the security of their data, including falsely offering a full delete feature that did not actually erase user information.

51:35 The company later rebranded, shifting its marketing away from explicitly promoting affairs and implementing stricter security measures. Despite extensive investigations, the Impact team was never identified and no arrests were made. Many experts believe the attack may have been carried out by insiders or former employees familiar with the company's security flaws. The Ashley Madison hack remains one of the most infamous dates to breaches in history, serving as a cautionary tale about online privacy, cybersecurity, and the risks of trusting websites that promised secrecy. The Ashley Madison hack exposed several high profile and individuals, including government officials, military personnel, and public figures.

52:17 Among them was Josh Dugger, a former TV reality star and conservative activists, who admitted to using the site after his name appeared in the leak data. Sam Raider, a Christian YouTube blogger known for his family oriented content, was also implicated. Thousands of US government and military email addresses were also found in the breach, raising security concerns and prompting investigations. Additionally, several religious leaders and clergy members were implicated, leading to resignations in public backlash. The leak also included corporate executives and professionals, though many denied actively using the service. While rumors circulated about celebrities being involved, Ashley Madison did not verify email addresses, resulting in some false associations. The reach had significant personal and professional consequences, with some individuals facing divorces, job losses, and public humiliation. I believe that more people could have been exposed, but some of their identities they did a better. Some people did a better job hiding their identities than others.

53:17 Okay. Amy's autopsy revealed that the single fatal gunshot wound caused her death. The bullet shot near her ear went back to front, left to right, and slightly downward. There was no stipling on Amy's skin. Remind us what stippling is. Oh, that's like when you shoot close range to skin, it gets like gunshot residue, I think on the skin. And well, it kind of burns the skin. Yeah, And you would expect if you were, you know, shooting yourself, that there would be still Amy's estimated time of death was three PM, soon after Amy's dad had picked up Joe for the afternoon. After Amy's death, Steven and Joe moved in with her parents. They didn't want to live in the house where Amy had been killed.

54:00 Neighbors of the all Wines were interviewed by police. One neighbor noted that he thought it was odd that smoke was billowing from their chimney. One would expect to see smoke in a chimney in Minnesota in November, but it had been unseasonably warm. That day, had someone burned evidence. When the nine millimeter gun was swabbed for DNA, profiles from both Amy and Stephen were found, but more of his DNA was found on the grip. There were nine smeared bloodstains on the hardwood floor in the hallway and on both sides of the bedroom door. A warrant was issued to search the all Wine home. Sixty six devices were removed from the home and analyzed by the FBI. Sixty six devices. We need to count our devices just to see for comparison.

54:43 I bet we have close to that many. The other day I lost my ear pods again. Again I had but I found them, but I had to go underfind my and it said, like, you have twenty three devices, and I was like do. I wow, Well a lot of those are old, right. Oh really old? Yeah. Yeah, like we all had. We all used to have mini iPads, and I don't think any of us really use those anymore. Yeah, so those were in there, but yeah, a lot of things that we don't use are in there still. But yeah, I think sixty six is probably because I think most of them were his. Yeah, well he was on it guy, so not too out of the ordinary. They actually said that his basement, his what do you call it, his audice or yeah, well yeah, it was even for an it guy. Mm hmmm, it was very elaborate.

55:31 Okay. Once the devices were in law enforcement's hands, his Internet activity proved to be very interesting. He had visited sites such as lonelymilf dot com, Naughty dates dot com, and Backpage. There was proof of his on his devices that he had hired several escorts in the past. He had driven to Iowa twice for hookups. Stephen had told investigators that he didn't know what the dark web was or how to access it, but his devices proved otherwise. He had been accessing the dark web since twenty fourteen. The software Tor and Tails were both found on his MacBook Pro. Tor enables you to use the dark web, and Tails erases your activity. Steven had searched Reddit for Tails.

56:15 According to their website, Tails uses the Tor network to protect your privacy online and help you avoid censorship to enjoy the Internet like it should be. Oh boy, I was surprised that he had a MacBook Pro. Like, we're a big Apple family, but I thought like guys that were like it, guys preferred PCs. I think that used to be true, but I think like in more recent years, I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think it guys could equally prefer a Mac to a PC. Okay, A search how to download tails on an acer computer was found on one of Steven's devices, but among the sixty six devices seized, there was no Acer computer. Police knew a device had been destroyed or was being hidden. As the investigation continued, computer forensics experts decided to narrow in on the dark web to see if dog Day God had any other illicit interactions.

57:10 Sure enough, they found that they had sought a drug called scopolamine on a dark web marketplace called dream Market. Scopolamine is often in patch form and used to prevent nausea or vomiting, especially in motion, sickness, or recovery from a surgical procedure. It's often called the zombie drug. In excess, the drug causes disorientation, dizziness, and hallucinations. Scopolamine in its powdered form is odorless and tasteless and easily dissolves in liquid. When Amy's blood was tested for the scopolamine, she was found to have forty five times, the dosage in her system a life threatening dose. On the day of her death, Amy had searched vertigo, but then her searches became increasingly incoherent and were just random letters as her condition worsened.

57:57 Stephen quickly became the only suspect in Amy's day, but police didn't have a smoking gun. All the evidence was circumstantial, with Stephen being an expert in it, Investigators honed in on his devices and they dug deep. The Cottage Grove Police Department examined the phone that Stephen had previously handed over to the FBI. They discovered two apps, or Fox and Orbot, both of which are commonly used to access the dark web. Alongside them were text messages containing confirmation codes from Stephen's purchase from local bitcoins. Strangely, these messages appeared to have been overlooked, or at least underappreciated during the FBI's initial review. On Stephen's notes app on his iPhone, there was a note found with a thirty four character bitcoin wallet. The note had been deleted almost immediately, but it remained in his iCloud. Investigators knew they were onto something.

58:49 This bitcoin wallet was the same that dog Day God had sent to euro for payment for the hit man. Now they had evidence that proved that Stephen and dog Day God were one and the same. This was the smoking gun that they had been looking for. The FBI could pinpoint Steven's actions from his computer, minute by minute that coincided with dog Day God's activity on the dark web. For example, Stephen posted a picture of Amy on their family website allwine dot net from their Hawaiian vacation, minutes before dog Day God posted the same picture on Basa Mafia when attempting to hire the hit man. Furthermore, while Stephen had covered his dark web tracks, he did not delete the Google searches on his other devices. He had searched about Moline, Illinois, the first location where Amy was supposed to be killed, and had recently visited the website that carried her life insurance policy.

59:41 Do you understand that I thought that was a little confusing, that the whole bitcoin wallet thing and how they were able to link these two accounts and then they knew it must be Stephen. Yeah, I think it made sense to me. I mean, bitcoin is it's super confusing, but I think like that having that wallet code allows you to kind of match up the transit. Yeah, and because it's the thirty four unique characters, it's impossible that anyone else would have those same set of yeahers in there exactly. In March twenty sixteen, on his forty third birthday, Stephen Alwine had walked into a Wendy's carrying seven thousand dollars in cash. He didn't know it yet, but he had just locked his keys in his car. He was nervous, and for good reason. He was meeting a mysterious man from local bitcoins dot com to purchase bitcoin with the cash that he had recently received from pawned ten thousand dollars worth of silver coins and bars. To get the cash, trying to skirt suspicion instead of withdrawing a large sum from his bank account. With a scan of a QR code, his bitcoin wallet was all set up. Later that day, he met his mistress, Michelle Woodward for lunch at the Blue Door Pub.

1:00:49 It surprised me that he bought bitcoin in person. I didn't know that it was something that you could do. I didn't either. I do know there are eight ms where you can buy bitcoin, but I didn't know you could like meet up with somebody in per and make a transaction. But I guess, I guess it makes all so. Confusing to me. It is. I know that money changes, like the dollar changes every day, and you know, wherever you live your money is worth a different amount every day. But bitcoin fluctuates so much from day to day. I don't know how you keep track of how much you have. On January twentieth, twenty seventeen, Stephen was arrested after he dropped Joe off at school. He was charged with second degree murder. His bail was set at five hundred thousand dollars, which he paid upon his release. He was required to wear an ankle monitor and only have supervised visits with Joe, who was living with his grandparents. Two weeks after his release from jail, Stephen was arrested again after having contact with Joe. He again posted bail that was set at six hundred thousand dollars.

1:01:46 I'm not sure Steven had a lot of money, I guess. In March twenty seventeen, a grand jury reviewed his case and he was recharged, this time with first degree murder. Yeah that's good. I was going to ask second degree murger didn't make any sense when he was planning all this stuff for so long. I think as the investigation unfolded they found more that they were able to charge him first degree. He was once again arrested, with a bail set at one million dollars, and he pleaded not guilty. He didn't have the additional funds and remained in jail until his trial in twenty eighteen. The prosecution argued that because of his position of authority in the Church of God, he couldn't divorce his wife Amy. After hiring a faux hit man and losing thousands of dollars, he became desperate and killed Amy himself so he could live out his sexual fantasies with other women. Steven's lawyers used the good guy defense. Stephen was a church elder and a leader in his community. He had no criminal record since his arrest. He'd been a model prisoner, preached about God to his fellow inmates, and had even converted three atheists. Stephen did not testify at his trial. His defense attorney said they spoke exhaustively about the decision, but in the end they decided that it was better he not testify. The trial lasted for eight days. The jury deliberated for about six hours before they found Stephen guilty of first degree premeditated murder. Before he was sentenced, Amy's friends and family read victim impact statements, but few were openly critical of Stephen, and a letter submitted to the court, Amy's parents referred to Stephen's betrayal and said he was

1:03:17 a quote selfish person and forgiveness will take time. I guess their religion must tell them that forgiveness is one of the important tenets that they must follow. Before Stephen was sentenced then forty four, he addressed the court in a rambling and disjointed eight minute statement that I'm about to read to you. Oh God, please, He said he loved Amy and did not kill her. Quote I've never asked for anything except to work for God. I never went to sleep and I never woke up without kissing her. The grief of losing her is tremendous. No one ever talked bad about our relationship. I'm going to take my Bible to Saint Cloud Prison and see what happens. Stephen said he has met drug addicts, child molesters, and kidnappers while in the county jail, and he has been conducting his Bible study. In his last trial before retirement, Judge b William Eckstrom clearly annoyed did not buy Steven's account. Quote, mister Lwine, my perceptions aren't going to alter the sentence in this case. But my perception is that you're an incredible actor, that you can turn tears on and off, that you are a hypocrite, and you are a cold and calculating killer boom. He sentenced Alwine to life in prison without parole. After the sentencing, Washington County Assistant Attorney Frank Fink said, this is an entirely circumstantial case. It was like putting a jigsaw puzzle together for the jury to convict him. Washington County Assistant Attorney Jamie lynnon Krauser said prosecutors remained focused on the victim. At the end

1:04:49 of the day, justice was served and I'm glad for Amy and her family. After the verdict, Dami's friends and family released the following statement, quote, we can summon no words to describe life without Amy. We love her and miss her tremendously. We now turn to the path ahead of privately healing and grieving. The Council of elders at the United Church of God removed Stephen from ministerial roles in twenty seventeen when he was charged with Amy's murder. After his sentencing, they released the following statement quote. Because of the sensational nature of the facts surrounding this case, a considerable number of international and national media outlets covered the events leading up to and including the trial. It is our fervent hope that we all continue praying to our merciful Father bought the entire situation, and be compassionate about what the extended families are growing through. Here is an important point. While we certainly respect the verdict, at the same time, we personally are not to sit in judgment.

1:05:44 We can have confidence that are all knowing God is aware of all aspects regarding this tragic situation. As a result, we will not be making speculative comments about the verdict. Their statement really bothered me because I had said nothing about Amy being valuable person and that she would be missed and her life was meaningful. Yeah, you would think they would do that. In her book The Darkest Web by Eileen Ormsby, she said that she's struck off a friendship of sorts with Eura and Europe made a comment quote, I wish I could have stalled him longer. He should have gotten a divorce. I don't like when religion makes people kill people. Religion should cause people to forgive, let go and be happy.

1:06:27 I'm sorry, but taking advice from this sis I who started the dark Web for killing people. So I think that if you're to believe that it's an individual, it almost seems to me like it's a network of individuals. But they just kind of spit spun it. So it's like, well, we didn't do anything. We were collecting these names to give to law enforcement. Rest in peace, Amy. She was a lovely woman who deserved so much more out of life. Yeah, for sure makes. Me so sad when these women just really was dedicated to her husband and would have done anything for him to keep her marriage and to you, and this is that's how he treated her.

1:07:09 Yeah, it just doesn't make any sense. So I believe that Joe has continued to live with his grandparents. Steven has had many appeals and he has lost them all. In April of twenty twenty two, five men were arrested in Romania, believed to be part of the bass on mafia scam. It's unclear if Eura was among them. Forty eight Hours covered this story in two parts and it's at our sources. I recommend that you go watch it. But Peter Van Sant, who is like their Keith Morrison, he just did a really good job in this case. But he reached out on a lark to Eura for an interview, and to everyone surprised, Era agreed, but under one condition, the forty eight Hours would have to travel to London, and they did, but when they arrived, Urra never showed up. Instead, he sent a video a diary in the video, so you're a claim that he wanted to expose the murder for higher operations and he handed them a bunch of individuals that have since been arrested.

1:08:09 Interesting. Yeah, it's a pretty interesting episode. I recommend that you go watch it. I wonder where Amy's dogs were during the murder. Yeah, did she have like a did she keep them at a kennel or I think. They must have been in some sort of kennel. Yeah, but she was having her class, so they probably weren't like in the barn, but maybe they had kennels for them in the house. Yeah, I wish they would have attacked. Yeah. Do you believe that he was guilty? Yeah, its pretty obvious to me. Do you think that the FBI could have saved Amy? I mean you wonder because it was obvious that the person who was trying to ever killed was serious about it because they had paid thousands of dollars. And it's always the husband. That's not always the husband, but yeah, it's always the husband. The fact that they dismissed him and didn't look into him further, it is really sad. I believe that point Amy should have been saved.

1:09:00 Yeah, it seems like it. And I think that you mentioned that there was some when they made a copy of his a couple of his devices early on, that there were some things on there that they either missed or misinterpreted. But they could have probably figured it out earlier that he was the one. So yeah, it's really it's really sad that they didn't catch that center and didn't think of that. It never ceases to amaze me, like these people that think that, oh, it'll be bad for my reputation if I get divorced, or you know, my church will be upset with me, when it's just and how do you think, Stephen Alwine, that your life is worth more than your wife's, right, it's disgusting. Yeah, And if you're truly religious, like, how can you think that God would be okay with with doing that?

1:09:42 I mean, it just it really just doesn't make any sense. And it's so it's so frustrating to hear this story over and over again. Before we go, I want to tell you about the bad day I had the other day. It was pretty bad. I didn't tell you during the day because by the time I got home, I was like, Okay, everything's fine. But I went to the Meyer to pick up our groceries. A lot of times I just do the you know, click, and then you just go. You drive to the Meyer and you pick up your groceries, and you know, sometimes there's some snaff who's there? Right? And we have two myers. You know where this is going already. We have two meers that are like one's a little closer and one's a little further the one like closer to ann Arbor. Okay, I hope they're not listening, but they do a better job than the one that's closer to us, right, Yeah, And I ordered from the one in ann Arbor. That's a little closer, I mean a little further away. I got there, I'm like, you know, it's a beautiful day, and you know, windows rolled down and join the music. I get there and I'm like, hey, here to pick up my groceries, and they're like we'll be right out, like okay, And five minutes later, I get a call and they're like, where are you. Oh so I went to the wrong mere, which you know, of course was a bummer, and I'm like, okay, no big deal, just like I would have been so embarrassed a few years ago, but now I'm just like I just do so many dumb things. It's just, you know, it's just an average Tuesday. So okay, so go get you know, get the groceries. And then I decide, you know, like I said, it's a beautiful day, I'm gonna go

1:11:13 to the car wash. And you know, for a lot of people, car washes are anxiety, and they weren't for me until I have the car that I have now, and I've had it for a while. But I guess I think I've only gone through the car wash once. So either go through the one where you do it yourself, or sometimes we'll wash it at home. So I I go. I pull up to the Zippy Auto Wash, which it's you know, it's a nice place. There's a nice attendant there and they spread your car down with their power washer before you head into the stall. I'm heading. He's waving me into the stall, which that gives me anxiety because I'm always nervous that I'm not. Yeah, and they're very mental about it. I may it just give you like this mean face. But surprisingly, even though it was a nice day, they weren't really busy. So he's waving me in and I get there and then I put my car in neutral and then he's like shaking his head frantically. My car isn't really in neutral. It has like that stupid parking parking Yeah, and I can't get it off. I just I'm struggling and I'm pushing like every button and you know me, like I get anxious and then it's all over, like I can't think straight.

1:12:17 So yeah, so then this pork he couldn't have been nicer. I'd need to like go bake him a cake or cookies or something, because he was so sweet. He was like, you know, put in his head and he's like, Okay, try this button, try this, and he was totally on team Tina. Yeah, he was rooting for me, but I just couldn't follow through. And really it was like five five long, long, long, long minutes, and people are like backed up behind me and he's so he's like, don't worry about them, We're going to get you through this. And then he was like, you know what, you need to just drive through, and I was like, how do I drive? He's like, just stay and Pete over here, he's gonna wave you down. So I'm driving through the car wash and drive and then I'm so like, you know, anxious and like the like my window is rolled down because I'm like talk like Pete's like talking me through the line, and then like it's so hitting me in the face, and finally, like I get down to the end of the line, I'm just like I wanted to die.

1:13:13 And then Pete's like so nice. It's like just go sit over there and look at your instructor's manual and then just come right through. We'll just wave you through a no big deal. And I was like, oh, that's okay, I'll do that. So then I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh my god, and I'm like still pressing all his buttons, and I know you guys think I'm an idiot, which you're not wrong. So anyway, I just and then Pete which isn't really his name, but he comes out and he's like are you all right? And he's like giving me a towel, and like these are the nicest people ever. And the person at Meyer also couldn't have been sweeter. So here I am just like, you know, wanting to like move to Idaho, because that's that's how I like, ten fifteen years ago, I would have been like I can't live here anymore because these people are gonna know what an idiot I am. So anyway, are Yeah, he was really nice. And then I was like I had some other couple of other arrands and I'm like, maybe I'll just come back, and I was gonna ask you to like maybe go with me, because I seriously was just like, you know, I just needed to get out of there. So then I was like, I'm gonna go to the mall. You would think I would just go home, yeah, But then I just said, you remember you got me like this nice bracelet on Valentine's Day and it's April and I still haven't a return, and I'm like, they're never gonna take it back. Yeah, but that was a very pleasant experience when I went to the jewelry store and they gladly like, you know, let me exchange it and offered me a job, which was very nice. Yeah.

1:14:32 I was like, well, she's like, oh, you don't need a podcast with your husband anymore, come work for us. It was that was really sweet. But then as I'm leaving the mall, which our mall is like pretty much deserted and abandoned at this point. Yeah, it's really sad. But leaving the mall and there's a goose and this guy looks at me. He's like like, be careful. That goose is is really fierce. And I was like I just laught and I was like, well, thanks, but I I think I can handle a goose. Spoiler alert, I could. Not handle the geese are scary. Oh my gosh. I was like, I have like my like of a nice big person. I was like, I'll just I almost hit the goose with the person because I'm like trying to like walk by it. And I was just kind of like laughing at the guy, and the goose is like hissing at me, like running for me.

1:15:21 So I made it to my car, but it was really scary. What a day. Yeah, So then I came home and everything was okay. Well I went to Costco, but it was pretty much Casco. Yeah. But anyway, well, I will say I took your car into a car wash once and I had the exact same experience the guy. It was the same thing, different car washed, but the guy like was leaning in trying. We were trying to figure it out. We were there for five minutes trying to figure out what button to push. Well, I think there's two different buttons that can have the same fact, and I think I have it figured out now, but I'm not. After some therapy, maybe I'm gonna be able to go through a car wash again. But that is just the kind of person and like I hate to put anyone out. So the fact that people were lining up behind me and these poor guys were could not have been nicer. So it was all just making me like, oh my gosh, I'm an idiot.

1:16:13 And that is why you don't need to ever leave your house. People have your groceries to let hurt wash your car at home. I don't know anyway. Wow, that is a crazy day. Thank you so much to listener Amanda for recommending this case. Thank you to Ann for the Intemen snack. Thanks for KK for the pretzel recommendation. You listeners are such a big part of our show and we truly love you and we appreciate you and you're the best. Yeah, we really do. Thank you so much. Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com, and don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash Love Marykill one tier five dollars a month early ad free access, and a monthly bonus episode which we will be recording very soon. Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.