Betty and Allan Gore/Candy and Pat Montgomery - Part 1 of 3

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. There's one thing that we've learned in over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing. Your wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina? How are you? I am good. How are you doing? I'm doing pretty well. Do you regret the way that we start and end our podcast? I don't. You had to do it over again? Would you not do it? I probably would do the start differently. The end i'd like.

0:42 I still like, but the start comes off a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, I have a little bit of regret because I never want to make it sound like we're being too casual. Should we change it up? Should we good? No, maybe we should. So it's August. I can't believe it's August already. And we will be on vacation soon. Are you excited for that? I'm very excited. I always like vacation. Vacation is much better than working. Guess how many places I have reserved for vacation so far. I'm going to go with zero. That is true, and I'm feeling a little tense about that. But I'm sure we'll figure it out always, but we weren't sure who would be able to join us where and when.

1:22 So getting complicated. Yeah, I think we're staying here in Michigan. We really do love our state. It's a great state to visit. It's a great state. So I have a weird question for you, But would you want to know how you were going to die? And on the day that you were going to die? If that was a service that you could pay for, would you pay for that service? You mean you would only find out about it on the day that you die, like you would. No, you would be able to find out out to be. Able to find out you were going to die at seventy five years old on the state. Oh gosh, I hope you have more time than that, not that you're anywhere near seventy five. That's a great question. I don't I guess no. Oh, I don't think I would. I don't think i'd want to know either.

2:04 That's a hard question though, because part of me is like, well, yeah, of course you would want to know, but I don't think it would be a good thing. I just finished a book by Alice Feeney called My Husband's Wife. It's not a major plot point. It's just one of the characters in the book. He's like a tech a guy, and he has this software or whatever that he developed. Okay, that can tell you, you know, based on a lot of different you know, like how insurance, what do you actually actually Yeah, based on that kind of evidence. So just got me to thinking that, gosh, I don't think i'd want to know. Yeah, I think it would not be good for you. The book started off so strong. I loved it so much. I was such a page turner. But it's a good book. I recommend it with a little bit of reservation. A lot of suspense novels, I think you've read a few like this where they just kind of go off the rails by the end, Like there's so many different twists and turns, and some of them don't always make sense or it's just taking.

2:58 A step too far. But I think it's really hard to maintain a good suspense novel the whole way through. You know, it really is on vacation, are you going to be Is there anything on your to be read? I mean I have a ton of things on my to read list. So that's a very good point. Is that for vacation. Yeah, I definitely want to make sure I pick out a really good. Book, but I don't know what you have any great recommendations. A couple of people have recommended Freedom McFadden. I think that's the author's name, and I have not read one of her books, so I think I will pick one of those up for a vacation. Let us know if you have any other reads, and we do. Maybe in one of the ends of one of these episodes we'll talk about things that we've read recently that are good. That sounds good. I'm in the middle of a couple of books right now, so I need to finish those up before we go on vacation so I can pick up something fresh.

3:44 We're so fun, that's the thing we're most excited about it. I'm sure we're good vacation read. Yeah. I'm sure we'll do a lot more than just read on vacation, though we'll probably eat. We're going to go to a ghost town too, That's what I'm excited about. I'm going to admit something to you. I haven't really looked at the itinerary. Yeah, so rich maybe itinerary and that I was supposed to like reserve airbnbs and hotels and stuff, and one of our kids is going to join us at one end and the other at the other end. I'm not really sure if we figured that out yet. We'll figure it out, but anyway, you know, I love a true crime classic, and that is what we are going to tell you today. I'm excited to hear it. I think a lot of you probably already know the story of Betty Gore and Candy Montgomery from this show's Candy and Love and Death from HBO, but hopefully we will tell you some things that you don't know. So we just got back from the gas station. We both got a soda, We got some chicken for later, and we got some candy.

4:41 We are ready. That is today's snack. So you picked out some and I picked out some. You picked out bottle caps and and zots, and I picked out bubbs, bubbs, gummy cluster nerds and hichu and we're going to eat them real quick. I think I'm going to enjoy mine a lot more than I know. I think I'm an enjoy my mind more than yours. They'll be right back. That was a lot of chewing, a. Lot of sugar. I'm all hopped up on sugar. Now I needed some sugar. I was feeling very tired, so hopefully I won't crash out in the middle of the episode. I liked all of them except for one. Yeah, which one didn't you like?

5:22 Well? I rated them. I did the Bobs, which I hadn't had until a couple of weeks ago, and I really like them, wow. And then I did High to the Grape Zot, then the Nerds Cluster, and then the bottle Cap. I didn't really love the bottle cap. I don't think I've ever had those before. I think those were like a favorite of yours from childhood. We are so different. I think my rating is almost the opposite order of yours. That's really fun. Bottle cap is number one. I actually like. The Nerds were probably my number two, and then I think I like the Zots, and then the High Choos, and then the Bobbs was probably funny. That is, it's exactly I really like sour candy. Like to me, I don't want I don't even really want the candy unless it has a sour flavor to it.

6:06 But you're the opposite. That's really fun. Just the very sweet guy. You are you are. You are the sweetest. You did something very nice to me for me today that that we're not going to talk about it, but as well, you made me lunch, which was really nice because I was like, oh my god, I have so much to do, and yeah, you were a hero, as you are quite frequently. I do my best. Today, I'm going to tell you the story of Betty Gore and Candy Montgomery. It was June thirteenth, nineteen eighty Friday the thirteenth, a scorcher one hundred degrees before noon. It would become one of the hottest summers on record in Colin County, Texas. The county was made up of ten small, amorphous towns, among them Lucas, about thirty miles northeast of Dallas. The lives of four Colin County residents, Candy and Pat Montgomery and Betty and Alan Gore, were inextricably intertwined. Each couple had two children. Candy and Pat were parents to seven year old Jenny and five year old Ian. Betty and Allen were parents to six year old Alisa and eleven month old Bethany. They were all active members and leaders at First United Methodist Church of Lucas the church was the cornerstone of their lives. It was the last day of vacation Bible School. The day would end with the parents attending a Noah's ar parade and a handmade puppet show. It was meant to be a fun week for the children, if not a little stressful for the parents running the summer camp, including Candy Montgomery.

7:32 She wasn't the most beautiful or stylish woman, but people were drawn to Candy. She wore oversized glasses and sported a tight, short perm. She was famous for wearing flip flops year round. She had boundless energy and an infectious enthusiasm for life. Her daughter Jenny and her best friend Elisa had talked their parents into having a rare two nights sleepover. Later that night, Candy and Pat were taking the girls and Ian to see the Empire Strikes Back was palpable. Betty Gore had agreed to the sleepover on the condition that Alisa not missed her swim lesson. But her swimsuit hadn't been packed. Candy said it was no problem, she'd run over and pick it up, despite the long list of errands she had to do that day. That was Candy always willing to help out a friend or have an extra kid tag along. Candy loved the rural community where she lived with her husband and two children.

8:23 She was proud of the life that she and Pat had carved out as leaders of the area, especially in their church. After performing the morning parable for the children, Candy told Barbara Green that she was going to run over to Betty Gore's house to pick up Alisa's swimsuit and then grab Father's Day cards at Target. She'd be back in an hour an hour and a half tops. She climbed into her aging white station wagon and sped off to the Gore's home in nearby Wilie. Betty Gore was almost the polar opposite of Candy. Soft spoken, deeply sensitive, introverted, and often reserved. Betty was an elementary school teacher who possessed a quiet warmth that revealed itself when she felt comfortable in your presence. Where Candy was always loud and bubbly, Betty was reflective and guarded. But Betty was biting a heavy and visible battle, struggling with deep isolation, intense anxiety, and the suffocating weight of postpartum depression. After the birth of their second daughter. Betty was caught off guard when Candy appeared at her doorstep that morning. She hadn't been expecting her, but she welcomed her in and gave her a cup of coffee while they played with the Gore's new puppy, Cheeto. Bethany was down for a nap. Ninety minutes later, Candy still wasn't back and had missed the children's parade. She had lost track of time during her visit with Betty. But Candy's head was a blur. What had just happened? Why was her hair dripping? And why was her clothing wet? The deep cut on her toe was throbbing and bleeding, making a mess of her car and flip flops. How to explain that? Oh, write the

9:55 storm door. She stubbed her toe on the ragged metal. Why hadn't Pat fick that damn door yet? She'd give him an earful about it later. She'd asked him to fix it a million times. Candy didn't have time, but she needed to go home and change and shower. She barreled down the gravel driveway, unbuttoning her shirt as she walked into the house. I was lucky that she'd worn a burgundy top that day. She ran it under cold water before she threw it in the dryer, ran up the stairs and jumped in the shower, rinsing out her curly hair. She tightly bandaged her wounded toe and quickly put on a fresh pair of light blue jeans and grabbed her still moist top from the dryer. The blistering Texas air would dry it on her ride back to the church. Before she headed out the door, Candy traded her worn flip flops for a pair of blue keads.

10:41 She drove as fast as she could down the dusty country roads back to the church, knowing her quiet little Guy would be sad that she'd missed his performance. She looked into the mirror and noticed that the cut on her forehead, right near her hair line, was still bleeding. She fluffed her hair and hoped that no one would see it, and then said to her reflection, Betty, I just got to talking and I lost track of time, and then I went down to the target and plano. When I got there, I realized my watch had stopped. And then I felt like I had been gone too long, so I didn't even go in. I just came right back here. Moments later, Candy breezily walked through the church doors with a warm, sheepish smile on her face, slipping seamlessly back into the role of a devoted church mom, doing everything in her power not to limp on the foot where Betty Gore had nearly severed her toe with an axe. Is it all coming back to you?

11:31 Yeah? In my head, I'm picturing the camera, which I guess it was Candy, the one with Jessica Bielle. Yeah, so I'm picturing those actors in my head as you're talking through it, And yes, it is coming back to me. Betty Eileen Pomeroy was born on January ninth, nineteen fifty to Bertha and Bob in Harper, Kansas. The pomroy Is married after a two week courtship. Bob was a mountain of a man at six foot three and two hundred and sixty pounds, A hard worker and a pillar of the community. He owned the standard oil station in town. While he didn't care much for organized religion, he believed in a higher power. Betty had two brothers, Ronnie four years younger and Richard eight years younger. The family lived in a tiny house on a one hundred and sixty acre farm with only an outhouse in Norwich, Kansas, a town so tiny that in twenty twenty there were still only four hundred and forty residents. When Betty was three, her mother entered her into the Most Popular Baby contest, which she won.

12:30 I don't know how one becomes a popular baby, but Betty wasn't. It's really funny. Betty was an easy child, smart and kind, happy to help out on the farm and drive the tractor or bail hay. She was a girl scout and a top student. She wasn't a beauty in the traditional sense, but Betty always turned heads and remained popular through high school, where she played the clarinet, ran track, and played on the basketball team. Like so many girls in the nineteen sixties, Betty watched the Beatles' first historic performance on The Ed Sullivan Show from her living room. Friends from the time remember that she always had a boyfriend, and sometimes more than one. She never complained or rebelled, but she had a remote aloofness that prevented anyone from getting too close, perhaps the reason why she cycled through so many boyfriends.

13:20 Some considered Betty cold, but she was shy, anxious, and reserved. Growing up in rural Kansas, the social upheaval of the nineteen sixties felt a world away. While college campuses erupted with anti war protests and the Civil rights movement reshaped the nation, life in rural Kansas changed at a much slower pace. For local teenagers, excitement meant piling into cars and riding around with friends, cooling off at the local swimming hole, attending school dances, or spending an evening at the roller rink. It was, by most accounts, a wholesome place to grow up, except maybe for what happened in the back seats of those parked cars. Did you ever go to the roller rink when you were a kid? Oh? Yeah, I did too. Yeah, it was actually a really good time.

14:06 Well, I don't know why they don't picture you as a roller skater. Were you a good rollers It wasn't a good roll roller skated ever together? No, I probably only went a couple of times, but it was it was like it was a thing to do. So my parents were divorced, so my dad went to the Yeah, but riding around in cars, which we used to call cruising because I also grew up in a small town. Yeah, like, that's what you did. On the weekend she went cruising, did you too? Oh? Yeah absolutely. In nineteen sixty eight, Betty attended college at Southwestern College in Winfield, Kansas, after winning an eight hundred dollars scholarship. Her whole life, she'd wanted to be a teacher. During her first semester at college, she met Alan Gore, four years her senior. He was the teaching assistant for her calculus class. Math was her least favorite subject. After struggling to understand the advanced material, she asked Alan to be her tutor. Betty had caught his eye since the first day in class, but he thought it was inappropriate to ask her out. But he jumped at the chance to be her tutor. The sessions gave them a chance to get to know each other, and Alan was quickly smitten with Betty's shy sweetness. The following semester, they began dating and became inseparable. Betty was the first woman that Alan fell in love with, but not the last.

15:24 Haven't you told me before that you thought calculus was fun? I love calculus? Yeah, you're the only one. Alan Gore grew up on a six hundred acre farm not far from Betty and her family. His father worked from sun up to sundown, passing his work ethic and serious demeanor onto his son, who was the second of five children. Alan was highly intelligent, but not the best student. He was easily bored. He played basketball, but as a farm kid. His main activity growing up was helping out on the farm and working with the four h community raising livestock and other community projects. A highlight of his young life was winning the Grand Championship Wheat Production Award at the Kansas State Fair. He was presented a plaque by Senator Bob Dole. He worked hard to pay his way through Southwestern College, where he was a math major.

16:13 He was mostly a loner until he met Betty Pomeroy. After all the boys Betty had dated, she had never really fallen head over heels for anyone until she met Alan. She liked that he was a little older and more mature, and she loved his intelligence. Theirs was a quiet romance. They were just happy to be in each other's company, even if it was a night at the library studying together. When Betty brought Alan home, her family and friends were more than a little surprised. He was average looking, wore thick glasses, had little interest in sports, and at just twenty one, his hairlines best days were already behind him. He struggled to make eye contact and hold a conversation, but by the way Betty looked at him, it was obvious that she was in love and her family was happy for her. What Betty may have valued most wasn't Allan's appearance, but his character. He was calm, loyal and dependable, steadfast, the kind of person who made her feel safe. Betty was naturally a bit anxious. Alan had a calming effect on her. He reassured her that she was loved and that he would always be there for her. In May nineteen sixty nine, they became engaged. Betty transferred to Kansas State University to be with Alan while he pursued his master's degree in computer science and she continued working toward her degree in elementary education. They both picked up odd jobs wherever they could. They were very poor, but they didn't care. They knew they were building a bright future together.

17:42 Betty and Allan married on January twenty fifth, nineteen seventy in Betty's hometown church, Norwich Methodist. They settled into married life in a small, sparsely finished basement apartment near the university. Betty had always strived for perfection, but now that she and Alan were married, the need for structure, predictability, and planning went into overdrive. She had an intense need to know what was coming next as Alan was finishing his degree and was unsure of what the future held. It drove Betty mad with worry to the point that she couldn't eat and developed an ulcer. In nineteen seventy one, Alan took a job working for the government in Las Cruces, New Mexico, developing computer software used to oversee the construction of the Safeguard missile defense system. Betty again transferred to the local university. When Alan had to leave for six weeks on a special assignment in Switzerland, Betty fell apart.

18:37 She missed Alan and her family terribly. She was hundreds of miles away from home and incredibly lonely. Whether it was a calculated move, an act of defiance, or just a lapse in judgment because of her deep loneliness, one night, Betty brought a fellow's student home and spent the night with him. She admitted her transgression to Alan, and he forgave her immediately feeling response because he'd been away for so long. I think that after Betty left Kansas, she really struggled feeling at home wherever they lived. They moved around a lot in those first years of their marriage. She deeply missed her family, especially her mother, and I think her sense of security if Alan wasn't there, was just gone.

19:19 Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like she had a lot of anxiety and was kind of insecure in a lot of ways. I know, hope I'm not painting her as too much of a pill, but I think she really had a hard time with her mental health. Yeah, it sounds like it. In the spring of nineteen seventy three, Betty graduated with high honors, becoming the first person in her family to earn a college degree. Her proud parents attended the ceremony alongside Alan. They were thrilled by Betty's accomplishment, though they still couldn't quite figure out their quiet reserved son in law. Alan is an engineer, and you have an engineering background. I wonder if you at all identify with him. Well, I can't relate to his receding hairline. But I do relate a little bit.

20:00 Too feeling lovely ahead of it. Oh thank you. I do relate a little bit to feeling, you know, socially awkward, maybe a little bit back, more so back when you were young younger. Yeah, yeah, I should mention that everyone in the stories so far, they're really young. They're in their early twenties. He's a little older than Betty. But yeah, well so far, you know, just getting to know Betty and Allan a little bit, I see them as just a regular couple with their They've each got, you know, their issues, but they don't seem to have anything that can't be overcome or that couldn't turn into a fine life together. One thing I always say about Alan is he's very and the same about you too, is he's like he makes her feel very secure and loved, and he's loyal and dependable, which you know you are the same way.

20:44 Oh thank you, that's very kind of you to say. I just speak the truth, sir. We'll be back after a break. After living in New Mexico for three years, Alan accepted a job with Collins Radio, the company that would later become part of Rockwell International. In Richardson, Texas. His fourteen thousand dollars salary allowed the couple to purchase a home in a new development in Plano. Betty found work as a substitute teacher because it was too late to find a permanent teaching job for the year. This bothered her a great deal. She longed to have her own classroom and friendships with colleagues. Betty supplemented their income by selling Avon, a job that pushed her well outside of her comfort zone.

21:31 Because of her natural shy personality, The stressors of everyday life caused Betty to become a frequent visitor to the doctor's office. She struggled with a variety of chronic but minor health problems allergies, headaches, and stomach issues. Then came a doctor's appointment for a much happier reason. Betty discovered she was pregnant. While she and Alan were overjoyed, Betty was stricken with severe mourning, sickness, fainting spells, and then a deep depression settled over her her unlike anything that she had experienced before. Throughout her life, Betty had done her best to present herself as cheerful and optimistic, but Beneath the service surface, she often struggled with self doubt and anxiety. Pregnancy seemed to magnify those feelings, leaving her emotionally overwhelmed at a time she had expected to be one of the happiest of her life. She worried about her appearance, She felt as big as a house, and was worried that she would never get her figure back.

22:27 The Gores joined at church Briarwood Methodist, which was a good social outlet for Betty with her anxiety, she had difficulty relaxing in the new environment and sometimes came off as prickly. While Allan, previously the more introverted of the pair, threw himself into both the social and business aspects of the church. When he wasn't traveling for work, he had meetings several nights a week. Betty was envious at the ease at which Allan embraced the church and all it had to offer, but she was more comfortable staying at home most nights. When Elisa was born in nineteen seventy four, Betty shined in her role as mother. Routine and schedule were her strong suits, and she doted on the baby. In the fall, she got a job as a second grade teacher. Betty was excited to have her own classroom, but the school's open classroom team teaching approach was not a good fit for her. She loathed it because the children were given more freedom, and she felt there was an inherent lack of discipline and control. Other teachers said that Betty was too stern for second grade. The stress of teaching in an environment that didn't suit her, combined with Alan's busy schedule, frequent travel, and church obligations, became overwhelming.

23:38 Betty needed his attention and support, but she often struggled to express what she was feeling. Instead, her frustration quietly grew, and over time she became increasingly bitter towards Allan. I've always thought that teaching second grade would be one of the toughest grades to teach. I think third grade is the heart. I don't know none of them as. It's probably very true. I guess I just remember our own kids. It's second grade seemed to be a challenging time just I don't know. Kids are getting older, they're getting more of an attitude, and just seems like a little harder control. Not ours, but they're classmates. For me. I remember third grade was hard because of multiplication and division, like long multiplication divisions.

24:20 Yeah, oh boy. Anyway, Betty went to the doctor complaining of feeling deeply depressed, anxious, and generally overwhelmed by life. Her doctor diagnosed her with postpartum depression and prescribed estrogen and valuume. According to the book Evidence of Love, for the next year, Betty returned to her doctor several times a month. Her symptoms included nervous stomach, sinus troubles, sore throat, swollen glands, tiredness, fear of pregnancy, next soreness, chess soreness, award a spasms, vaginal itching, laryngitis, rest soreness, fever, earache, sinus problems, and tingling in her left arm. That's a lot of issue, hmm.

25:01 Her doctor was sympathetic to Betty's health issues. Despite the various medications he prescribed, Betty continued to have troubling symptoms. The doctor thought that Betty were brought on by stress and anxiety. To add to Betty's discontent, her teaching contract wasn't renewed and she lost her job. She stayed home with the baby for a semester and then after substitute teaching for the nearby Wiley School district, she was offered a job teaching sixth grade. Allan had also taken a new job that required more travel. Betty almost lost her mind when he told her that he had to travel to Switzerland for six weeks and that he'd miss Thanksgiving to make it up to her. After Christmas, he took her there and they had the time of their lives.

25:43 Betty had never been happier. When we're talking about all these problems that Betty's having with her health, remember it's the late nineteen seventies, and I don't think people talked about depression as much, and I think a lot of her symptoms were based on just the manifestations of anxiety and depression her body. Yeah, definitely seems that way. And I think around that time is when you know, people started doctors started prescribing drugs like thallium and what was the other thing that she was on, estrogen? Estrogen. I think a lot of times they when they heard about these kind of random problems, they would just prescribe something and didn't necessarily treat the real rude of. The good of the air Betty's contentment was short lived.

26:24 In nineteen seventy seven, tired of his constant traveling, Betty called Allen's boss and requested that he'd be excused altogether from traveling because he had a wife and a young child at home. He'd about died from embarrassment. Feeling the pressure from Betty, Allen requested a new position that didn't require travel. They sold their house in Plano and moved to Wiley so Betty could be closer to the school where she taught. The goers bought a tidy brick ranch on Dogwood Drive in one of the town's new subdivisions. When a new pastor was brought into their church with old world autocratic views of the Methodist ideology, the goers, among others, were unhappy and left the congregation to look for a new place to worship. Eventually, on the advice of a friend, they landed at the first United Methodist Church of Lucas, where the goers would meet Candy and Pat Montgomery.

27:16 I can't even tell you how mortified I would be if you were to call my boss and tell them that you didn't want me to travel. That would be a hard one for me to get past. I'm thinking about calling your boss and asking if you can travel more. Actually, but I think that she did this more than once, and yet he was not happy about it. About thirty miles northeast of Dallas, set Lucas and Wiley, Texas. Today they are sprawling, affluent suburbs, packed with new housing developments, top rated schools, and tens of thousands of commuters. But back in nineteen eighty, they were two quiet, closely connected rural communities where life moved at a much slower pace. Wiley was the hub, a small railroad town of under nine thousand with a few blocks of historic downtown aabring. Lucas was even smaller, a tiny farming patch of just fifteen hundred people, framed by cotton fields, corn crops, and dirt roads. Lucas residents ran their errands, shopped and went to church and wilie. It was a place where kids rode their bikes until dark, gossip traveled at lightning speeds, and no one bothered to lock their front doors. Born on November fifteenth, nineteen forty nine, Candace Lynn Wheeler Candy grew up on army bases around the world. Georgia, San Antonio, France for three years, Virginia, Al Paso, West Germany, Washington, d c. And Maryland. Her fondest memories were from her time on the west coast of France, living in a big stone house in a quaint village with cobblestone streets with her mother, father, and older sister Joy. Her father

28:47 worked as a radar technician. Candy was a bit of a hellion growing up. She was bright, friendly, strong willed, and boy crazy from a young age. When Candy was fourteen, she and a friend decided to run away, but they didn't get too far. They were found the next afternoon at the shopping mall. She had no particular reason for running away. She just craved free will and independence. She clashed frequently with her mother over the things most teen girls fight about, curfews, dating, makeup, and clothing. Candy wanted to experience it all. Finally, when she was sixteen, when her parents allowed her to date, she got her first boyfriend, a senior named Chris. Quote. We had dated for a couple of months before I went to bed with him.

29:31 Actually went to car with him would be more appropriate, since it was in the back of his ford. I was very disappointed from all the trashy novels I'd read, I expected fireworks and explosions, and to be all aquiver with lust. Candy was in love with Chris, but when he wanted to give her an engagement ring, she sobered and realized that she was too young for marriage. Candy met her future husband's mother, Marie Montgomery, first while working at a furniture factory. She set them up on the eight. Pat, five years older than Candy, was a brilliant engineer working for Texas Instruments. He had grown up in El Paso. He was intelligent, disciplined, and academically gifted.

30:11 In high school, he excelled both in the classroom and as an accomplished trumpet player, earning all city honors. He later attended Texas Western University, where he left behind his dreams of becoming a professional musician and instead studied engineering. After graduation, he began pursuing a PhD at the University of Colorado on a prestigious NASA fellowship specializing in cutting edge electromagnetic research. After President Richard Nixon ended student draft deferments during the Vietnam War, concerned he could be drafted, Pat accepted a position at Texas Instruments. His work on military related technology qualified him for a draft exemption. His research was so advanced that the University of Colorado allowed him to continue working toward his doctorate remotely until he could return to campus. To Candy, Pat was average, looking awkward and quiet. On their first date, they went to dinner at a nice restaurant and then to the theater to see the movie Airplane. Candy called it the dullest date of her life, but when Pat requested a second date the following night, Candy agreed to it.

31:19 How could seeing airfla be the dullest date of area? You took the words right out of my mouth. They had a fine time, but Candy was surprised when Pat put his hands in her pants at the end of the date. She agreed to a third date, but, still shaken by the events of the previous night, she stood him up. He didn't take the hint, though. Instead he sent her a dozen roses, winning her over once again, and she decided to give him another chance. Candy was glad she did. As she got to know him, Pat grew more comfortable in her presence, and as she peeled his layers away, she found him smart, funny, introspective, gentle, and kind not to mention his earning potential. I don't know if I've made it clear here, but they we don't live in the same area, so he was in town visiting, so for several nights in a row they went out.

32:06 Gotcha. She hated her job and wanted to settle down, buy a house, ideally a farm, and have children. But Pat lived in Dallas and Candy nine hours away in El Paso. They wrote letters to each other to fill the absences. After just two months of dating and visiting each other on only four weekends, Pat proposed, Candy wondered what had taken him so long. Days before their wedding, Pat wrote Candy the following letter, Darling, Candy, next Tuesday seems like always, and yet tomorrow I'll be forever happy. On that day. We'll be together for as long as we both shall live, and what we make of the rest of our lives will depend on the magnitude of our love for one another and the product of our love.

32:49 I can think of nothing more worthy of my life than spending it with you. I've often wondered what an all consuming love such as ours would be like. It's a never ending anxiety and all consuming emotion and awareness of everything beautiful. And you are beautiful in countless ways. I hope I'll always make you happy. I know that you've already made me overly joyous. I love you. I'm looking forward to being the father of your babies and teaching them what we both believe to be right. I'd like for us to be the best parents any child would ever desire. I long for you to be at my side on a cold winter morning so that we might warm one another's bodies and souls. I want you at my side on warm summer nights so I can love you in a manner so that when I'm gone, you'll always remember Candice. I love you all of my love forever.

33:39 Pat, It's beautiful. Do you need a tissue? I think Pat is maybe a good engineer, but not the best poet in the world. In return, Candy wrote, dear Pat, this is the very last time I'll ever write you, because pretty soon you'll be with me forever and always. I just wanted to put this little note in your letter to tell you that I truly love you, and I will continue to do so till I die, and even though I don't see how it could be possible, I'm sure I'll love you even more when we're old and gray. I do love you so much, Pat, Always Yours, Candy. Candy's note was not quite as filled with romance, and yeah, I. Should look up some of the old letters that you wrote me, and now that's not they were very sweet.

34:23 After they were married, Candy moved to Dallas, but she hated it, missing her family and friends horribly. Soon after, Pat decided to return to Colorado to finish his PhD. Candy took a job working at an insurance agency while Pat worked for the National Bureau of Standards and as a research assistant. But money was tight again. Candy was unhappy, unaccustomed to the colder climate and high altitude of Colorado, But in September nineteen seventy two, Candy and Pat were thrilled when their first child, Jenny, arrived. Soon after, Pat finished his dissertation to great acclaim electromagnetic boundary value problems based upon a modification of residue calculus and function theoretic techniques.

35:08 About twelve people understood his work. Nothing makes me feel dumber than when I hear the title of. Someone'sation that one is quite something. The next year they returned to Texas, where Pat returned to Texas Instruments, working on military radar projects for the government. They moved frequently in those first years, Dallas, Boulder, then back to Texas, Richardson, then Plano. In October nineteen seventy four, Candy and Pat welcomed their second child, a son Ian. After his birth, Candy had a tubal ligation. In February nineteen seventy seven, the Montgomerys built their dream house in Lucas, out in the country for seventy thousand dollars. It was a modern house with an open floor plan featuring exposed beams and skylights.

35:55 The house was called the best party house in Collin County. It was the life that Candy always dreamed of, but it still felt like something was missing. Despite she and Pat both claiming they were agnostic, Candy began looking for a church to meet people and serve their new community. They joined the United Methodist Church in Lucas. Soon after they had welcomed a new pastor, Jackie Ponder. I just want to talk really quick about this area of Texas. In the nineteen eighties, similar to the Silicon Valley in California was called the Silicon Prairie, and it was, you know, the Dallas area where Texas Instruments and other major companies Where was IBM was IBM in Texas.

36:35 No, IBM was based in New York, but I worked for EDS, which was based in Plano, Texas. We will mention EDS here in a minute too. Yeah, just a burgeoning field. You know. The tech industry was really just huge, and Texas was a big part of it. Yeah, it was an exciting time. I in hearing this story, it's taking me back a little bit. I'm not as old as these the folks in here, but i was in technology a little bit after that, and I'm a little bit jealous in a way because things were it was like a wide open possibilities, Like this stuff was all brand new, and you know, people are doing really interesting things. It was just wide open. When we talked a little bit about like just their potential, earning potential, like they both Allen and Pat were brilliant. Yeah, they could write their own tickets, it sounded like. And it, like you said, it was a really exciting time.

37:25 Yeah, in rural Texas, the church is at the heart of the community. It's where parishioners come together to worship, volunteer, support those in need, and grow as individuals. It's where friendships are built and ties to the community are strengthened. But in a town where everyone knows everyone, news travels fast. Despite people's best intentions. Gossip is part of human nature, and judgments can sometimes spread more quickly than acts of kindness and support. This rang true for the first United Methodist church in Lucas, Texas. The church itself wasn't much to look at, with its peeling paint and rusted steeple surrounded by wheat fields on three sides, but there was a simple beauty to the church's austerity that allowed the parishioners to feel God's presence without distraction and absorbed the message of the sermon each week. The congregation was small, one hundred members if everyone showed up on any given Sunday, but they never all showed up. They dreamt of improving the structure or building a new one, but it just wasn't in their budget. Pastors cycled through the church frequently.

38:31 Young preachers, wanting to get their feet wet, began their careers at the small church, but then moved on quickly to bigger churches. But in nineteen seventy six, when a charismatic, black, liberal leaning feminist named Jackie Ponder came to the church, she was there to stay, or so she hoped. Jackie, married to a doctor with two children, had once proclaimed herself to be an atheist. After experiencing what she called a mystical experience in her mid thirties, she was drawn to the ministry. With her tall frame and booming voice, she was a force to be reckoned, with Jackie's philosophy of religion boiled down simply to love God with all your heart, mind, and soul. Her arrival caused a divide in the church and in her personal life. Jackie's husband, Bill, wasn't supportive of her new career in the ministry, especially when he and their children were expected to reside in the dilapidated parsonage. After a few months, he threw in the towel and asked Jackie for a divorce. Waves of gossip rippled through the church. Not everyone embraced the church's new progressive direction under a divorced female pastor, especially when she began dating Some objected to Jackie's marital status, while others simply didn't believe a woman belonged behind the pulpit.

39:47 Before Long Sunday Attendants had dwindled to about twenty five regular worshippers, although a loyal group stood by Jackie. But when Candy Montgomery joined First United Methodists, they became fast friends. Candy was Jackie's biggest supporter. They frequently spent time together outside of church, having philosophical conversations about religion, motherhood, and the hardships of being a woman. Despite their differing religious beliefs, Jackie welcomed Candy's perspective and the two developed a deep, meaningful friendship. Together. They became a powerhouse with Candy's spearheading committees, Sunday school, and whatever else she could do to support her friend and enrich First United Methodists. With Candy's enthusiasm and boundless energy, she rapidly became a leader in the church and a champion for Jackie, inspiring other women to rally behind her as well. As more women became involved, the church encouraged them to share their gifts, talents, and creativity, fostering a stronger sense of community and purpose. After her divorce, Jackie was devastated and leaned heavily on Candy to get through the difficult time. Candy encouraged her to embrace her new single status as a fresh beginning. She booked speaking engagements at nearby churches, where Jackie spoke about her unique role as a woman leading a ministry. Jackie was a magnetic presence, and before long, several young families were inspired by her message and joined First United Methodist. Among them were Betty and Alan Gore. So Candy finding religion, it

41:20 sounds like maybe it was more about like just being part of the community and being active rather than a deep belief in the religion. I believe that was the case. But she was inspired by Jackie and Jackie's feminism and Jackie's mission, And when Betty joined the church, she also is very inspired by Jackie. They were both feminists, and I think in Texas in nineteen eighty, you know, it wasn't as common to have women that were strongly supporting other women. We'll be back after a break. When a congregant came to jack In offered to be choir director, something the small church had never had before.

42:04 Jackie happily agreed. The group, including the Gores and the Montgomerys, became a cornerstone of the church's leadership. Pat Montgomery soon rose to the top of the choir with his strong voice. Realizing that people needed more reasons to come to church during the week, Jackie encouraged new groups and social committees to form. Pat and Allen organized softball and volleyball teams, along with foreign missions. Candy taught Sunday school, and Betty organized a youth group. But no matter how hard she tried, Betty Gore wasn't like the Queen Bee moms and Candy's click. Many viewed her as cold and distant. When the other women were speaking openly about their sex lives and using strong language, if Betty walked into the room, the playful banter abruptly stopped. She was more buttoned up and reserved than many of the other women, but her anxiety and shy nature prevented her from relaxing and letting her guard down.

43:00 Because she worked as a teacher, she was often excluded from the morning coffee dates, luncheons, and church meetings many of the other women were immersed in. In the spring of nineteen seventy eight, Betty decided that she and Alan shed become foster parents because they had so much love to give. The first child they welcomed into their home was a six year old boy who stayed for only two weeks. After he left, Betty asked that only girls be placed with them. So it sounds like the boy only stayed for two weeks because he was trouble, and so Betty think he. Was difficult, and Betty had kind of in her mind these rigid ideas of what a child should be like, even though she was a teacher. It's hard to talk about Betty without making her sound like she was this very austere woman, because I don't think she was. I think she could be warm and lovely, but you know, she had a lot going on. When a three year old girl arrived, Betty excitedly took her to meet Pastor Jackie, seemingly eager to impress her. But despite being a tea Maor, Betty sometimes struggled to connect with young children. Her instinct was to punish behavior she viewed as naughty, rather than redirecting, distracting, or engaging them through play. When she failed to form the bond that she had hoped for with the children they fostered. She fell into a depression, convinced that she had failed. Twenty eight year old Candy Montgomery was also feeling unsettled that summer. Despite her full schedule. She was a woman who got bored easily. She joked with her friends about leaving her husband, but under the joke was

44:32 a kernel of truth. She wanted fireworks, and Pat well he no longer made her see fireworks if he ever had. Candy shuttled her kids around town, took writing classes, and volunteered constantly at church and in the community. She and her best friend Sherry were even launching a painting and wallpaper business that they were calling cover Girls. But despite her busy life, Candy felt hopelessly bored, especially in her marriage to Pass and the restlessness had started to needle her. He came home from work every day and parked himself in front of the television. He never asked her about her writing or other projects. Other than going to church, he rarely did anything outside the house. Candy didn't want to leave him, She just wanted to spice things up a little. It wasn't until one night in the fall of nineteen seventy eight, when she was playing volleyball at the church, that it came to her when she and Alan Gore collided, their bodies came closer than they had ever been before, and when Candy caught a whiff of him, she liked it. Pheromones are powerful stuff. Could ponche Alan Gore give her fireworks. She later told Sherry that she was attracted to him. He smelled sexy. Sherry thought that she was nuts. Candy and Allen had grown to be friends in the past year, singing in the choir and working together on other church committees. He was funny when she got to know him, and always willing to lend a helping hand. He had seen his eyes linger on her, and he always smiled broadly when he saw her. She'd

46:05 bet her bottom dollar that he was secretly attracted to her too. She found herself daydreaming about him constantly. One night, after choir practice, Candy felt embolden. She leaned into his car and said, Alan, I want to talk to you sometime about something that has been bothering me. Oh, how about right now. I've been thinking about you a lot, and it's really bothering me, and I don't know whether I want you to do anything about it or not. I'm very attracted to you, and I'm tired of thinking about it, so I wanted to tell you. Alan wasn't able to form any words. Embarrassed, Candy got into her car and drove home. But Candy's words awoke something in Alan that he hadn't known was there. Now. He too couldn't stop thinking about Candy.

46:52 He had always been attracted to her and her funny, outgoing personality. A week later, after a volleyball, as they walked to their cars, All and ask Candy what she specifically had in mind. Would you be interested in having an affair? Candy asked brazenly. I don't know what to say. Alan told Candy that Betty had just found out that she was pregnant with her second child, and he didn't think that he could do that to her. He loved her, But before he left her, Alan reached over and gave Candy a gentle kiss on the lips that they'd both think about over and over the next week. And that's where we are going to end part one.

47:32 Well, that is an intriguing note to end on. Mm hmm. It almost feels like Candy approaching Alan here. And this This was the sense I got when we watched the show Candy as well, is that it was almost very like practical on her end, Like it wasn't driven by like, you know, some mad lust or anything like that. It was just sort of like I need spice in my life, and here's a guy that I think, you know, is sort. Of probably into me a little bit. Yeah, yeah, it but it almost seems like Alan seems very similar to Pat to me as well. It's very true, Yeah, based on what I know about the two of them. So it's almost like she's going from her husband to this guy who seems very similar. We'll talk more about this in part two, but it is interesting how we'll planned out this whole situation will become.

48:18 Yeah, it seems like very very fitting with Candy's personality in general. I'm not trying to trap you, but how do you think most affairs start. I think most affairs would start with like a kiss, right, and not the vocalization of hey, maybe we should have an. Affair, yeah exactly, or or just becoming more intimate, like your discussion is becoming more intimate, like getting into more personal details of your life and before you know it, you're like involved in more like, you know, intimate conversations. I think they might have done that a little bit, but Alan was pretty buttoned up too. I don't think he ever complained about his wife. Yeah, I wouldn't imagine, but you know, they. Were in the choir together and as a. Volleyball team, so they definitely spent some time together.

49:01 But that one night when they collided into each other, their spouses were not there. Yeah, okay, it's interesting too. She talked about his smell. I always hear this sort of thing that like, pheromones are really powerful, and I've. Never made a sense of smell. I don't think I was gonna say, I like, I've never consciously noticed any smell of another person. But are pheromones conscious? As That's what I always thought. It was like more of an unconscious thing, But it sounds like for Candy it was more conscious. Were you surprised that Candy and Pat, like after two months of dating, only seeing each other in person a handful of times, that they became engaged. Yeah, kind of, especially with Candy's personality, just seems like she wants to experience everything and she wants to try, you know, all these different things, and so to agree to settle down that quickly seems a little bit out of character, but it was also a different time as well.

49:56 So out of the four people in this story, Candy is the only one that didn't go to college. But obviously she is an intelligent woman. She has a lot of Yeah, she's driven, and she has a lot of curiosity. And I think that she had a regret that, you know, that she didn't nurture that part of her life as much. But I think she wanted to be married and have kids, right. You know, in the seventies, you know, it was more common to just once you were married, well that was your choice, and you were, you know, a housewife and a mom. Yeah. So she never really sewed her wild oats in her younger years or as much. But well, I think she she did not as much as maybe she well, although she might have sewed, but I think she wanted more out of life. She wanted I think she would have had a good career. Yeah, after two months of knowing each other, would you have married me?

50:47 I think I knew pretty quick with you, So yeah, I think I didn't propose to you until after a year, But I think I knew deep down that it was going to work out between us. How about you? I think I was always a little more gunshy than you because you were a little more a little more, you were a little older, and maybe you had a better idea of what you wanted. And I think you being older and you were already in your engineering career and you were going back to school for MBA and I was still going to college too, I think I just wasn't sure where life was going to go. It's understandable. I was probably a little more settled into my path than you were at the time.

51:30 And I think because you lived in Michigan and I lived in Illinois, I just wasn't sure how that was going to end up working out. But here we are, Here we are. Betty Gore was out going and friendly in high school. I think I forgot to mention this, but she was even elected homecoming queen. Oh wow. And she was most popular. She sure was. But by the time that she married Alan, she was riddled with insecurities. What do you think happened? Sometimes just as you get older. I don't know if it's you know, if it's chemical or hormonal or whatever it is. But I think sometimes as you get older, you know, you develop more insecurities and anxieties and things like that. So maybe that's just kind of what happened.

52:16 I think some people are really comfortable in their small hometown, and when they leave that comfort, I think that she never really felt secure again. And I do think that it was also depression and postpartum depression. Yeah, sounds like it. Yeah. Do you think that Alan was open to an affair with Candy because of Betty's challenges, her insecurities, her mental health struggles. Do you think that caused him to be more willing to kind of entertain this possibility or do you think it was just that he was attracted to her. I think that's a really good question, and I think, yeah, to some extent, that's probably true. He tried really hard to comfort her and be there for her, but it was overwhelming sometimes. Yeah, like when she called his boss, like, I can't even imagine how angry you would have been with me if I would have done something like that.

53:07 But in Betty's mind, she was like, well, maybe your boss doesn't know that you have, you know, a wife who really wants you at home and a young baby, and you know. Yeah, so Alan may have felt like he was like he was very supportive of Betty, but maybe maybe he resented that after a certain amount of time and felt like, you know, I want my own right Yeah. Yeah. And the way Candy presented herself. She was always a lot of fun and gregarious and things didn't weigh on her as heavily as they did on Betty. Yeah that makes sense. Do you think you're a Betty or a Candy? I think somewhere in between. I I don't think I'm too close to either of them. Yeah, how about you.

53:49 Well, you tell me. I don't know. I think I'm a little bit of both. When we were talking about all of Betty's little health issues like her headaches and her allergies, and I'm like, oh my god, you're going to think that's me, because, especially in the summertime, I'm just a whiny mass. You have had a lot of melodies this summer. But yeah, but I don't know. There were all dynamic women, and I just don't want to paint Betty in a certain way. But definitely the shows that I've watched and the book that I read paint her in a certain way, but I definitely have a lot of empathy for what she was going through. Yeah. Well, I think that's one of the things that makes this story so fascinating is the different personalities involved of like the four main people in this story, They're all very different and.

54:35 They all have Well, the guys are pretty SMA guys. Maybe similar, yeah, but definitely Candy and Betty are very very different. Well, please come back for part two and part three. This case takes place in nineteen eighty and as we were talking about, and I was a TV kid, yeah, and I were you. I think I was more than you. Were as a TV kid, definitely. Okay, So we thought it would be fun, and I think you made this for me, yes, to play some TV theme songs and see how good I am at guessing them. Yes, And I took TV shows that were on in nineteen eighty, like shows that were generally pretty popular in nineteen eighty. So, yeah, I've got a bunch of them here.

55:22 So let's okay, Wait. Do you want me to like hit? I'll hit this stabler when I know it, So I'm going to try to get him as fast as I can okay. Sounds good. Here here's the first one. Yes, Tina Vernon Shirley, I'm very good. All right, let's give this one a try, Yes, TAXI very good. All right, you're ready for the next one? God? Yes, w KP in Cincinnati. That's a great show. I love that show. I did not like that show. I think it was too young.

56:02 All right, here's the next one. Oh quick, Dallas. Very good. I don't think I would have recognized this from that early. It's been on my mind because between Betty's house and Candy's house was south Fork Ranch. Oh Betty, I know. Candy actually drove past south Fork Ranch on her way. I didn't realize that was a real place. And her really watched Dallas. Did you watch Dallas? Oh? Not really? No, it wasn't big into that one. All right, let's try one maybe a little trickier.

56:42 Yes, shoot, I know, but I can't think of it. Is it magnum p I? No, it's a good guess though. It's about a couple very much like us No Heart Tartar Heart, Robert Wagner and who Stephanie Stephanie Powers. Yeah. I always looked at Robert Wagner as like the ideal American man. He was like what I aspired to be before you. Read the Natalie story. Yeah, maybe not so much at high. On that story. We probably know we probably all right, you're ready for the next one? Yeah, yes, there you go. Yeah, you guessed it on the last one. I wouldn't have known that one. Yeah.

57:25 I thought you were going to do more like Facts of Life, and because I would get that one. In because it has the words facts of. The But it was like my favorite theme song, was it? I'm sorry I missed that one. All right, let's try this one. Yes, Fantasy Island. Fantasy Island, I'm so old. I loved Fantasy Island. The island was creepy. It was creepy. That's why I loved it. It had like this dark, foreboding feel about it, like something terrible was going to have happened. Well, yeah, and sometimes they were. They were pretty scary. Yeah, all right, let's try this. Taking a long time to fade up, all right, let's try this one.

58:11 You're rats. Yes, I can't believe I know this one, but Alice, I. Can't believe you don't either. I thought that would be. A hard one, I think because Linda lavin May she Rest in peace died with in the last year or so, and I think I listened to her singing this on YouTube. Oh really, thank you, that's. What you said. Here comes my favorite part of this though, right right here is a new girl in towns. She's looking good. All right, one more. I don't know we're gonna have a tricky on.

58:59 Is it? Very very popular show, very popular comedy sitcom. I thought you were gonna do ones where like there was a theme song Nash's music, So I don't think I. Know this one that's Morgan Mindy. Oh yeah, I don't remember that one at all. Sadly today, I don't think there are many shows with recognizable themes. If there, if there even is a theme song, it's so short, it's like ten to fifteen seconds. Like people just don't have the I mean maybe. There are, I just can't think of them. But other than Succession, that was obviously the Piano. I actually have that on my Spotify playlist because I love that song so much. What was your favorite show growing up?

59:40 Well, Get Smart was? I mean it depended on what age. I was, but I was thinking, like, oh, he's gonna play Get Smart. That tune that's. Way before nineteen eighty. But yeah, that was a great, great. I surely watched a lot of these shows as reruns, you know, in syndication. Yeah, so I think I think I mean Brady Bunch of you. Were Ay, I love everyone loved the Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island I was a big fan of for a while. I just love to sitcom I still I still do, kind of, but sitcoms. There's just TV is just so different than it was when we were growing up. There's so many different platforms to watch TV on. And if we've talked about this before, but I think the only show that we watch it's on regular TV is Survivor.

1:00:24 Yeah, I think you're right, or yeah, I think so. Well, it's kind of weird, Like I know people talk about this all the time, but there is no sort of shared experience of you know, everybody watched Dallas, the season finale of Dallas, you know who shot JR? Type of thing. We just don't have those kind of cultural moments with TV shows very rarely. Yeah that's not actually true. There are some like even like the Scott Peterson documentary that we were talking about in our last episode, like a lot of people watch that, or I don't know, Tiger King, what was Tiger? Yeah, like everyone watched. That or well that's true. Occasionally a show does sort of rise to that level of you know, awareness that becomes it almost becomes like viral.

1:01:06 Remember Making a Murderer it's Stephen Avery. Yeah, like collectively we were all very obsessed with that case. It's a huge true crime one. Yeah, quickly before we go, I wanted to talk about pheromones. Do you know that you can go by like pheromones on Amazon? There's different colones that are supposed to make you more attractive to I don't know if it's the opposite sex. But just make you more people. Scientists really have not for humans, been able to narrow down what we're actually attracted to. So by these colones, it works for animals and insects, but not in humans. And so these are actually like colognes that smell like they smell nice, but they also have pheromones.

1:01:51 Pheromone colones. Yeah, there's a lot of them out there, But yeah, you don't need those because you know, we're attractive just the way you are. But do you have any smells that are like your favorite smells, or at least favorite smells. I well, you know, I know, you. Know, when I'm cooking something. For Yeah, but I wouldn't want you to smell like garlic and onions. But like vanilla. You know, I really love the smell of vanilla. I used to buy you. I think, like lotions that were vanilla. I said, please start buying me lotions that smell like food. Yeah, but what smells don't you like? What smells don't I like? I don't garbage. I know there's a ton of spells, but I don't like. I wouldn't expect you to like things that other people might like that you don't like. Can you think of.

1:02:35 Any maybe sort of like overly flowery kind of fragrances, like you know sometimes like you smell lotions that are flowery or rose scented or lavender, those kind of things I don't necessarily love. I spread on her bed all the time. Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't say that I don't like them, but I just don't. I don't know, they don't appeal to me. Interesting. What about you? We don't you when you walk into someone's house and it just smells like really musty especially this time of year. Yeah, I hate that smell, but I like the smell of cookies, chocolate chip cookies, some homemade bread, you know, all the things that. You like to Yeah, those are very good smells. All right, Well, you have wasted a perfectly good hour listening to our podcast. If you would like to listen to parts two, and I'm pretty sure there's going to be a third Part two, please consider joining us on Patreon.

1:03:26 Go to patreon dot com slash love Marykill. For only five dollars a month. You get early add free access and a monthly bonus episode. Find us on social media or on the internet at Lovemarykill dot com, send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com, or fill out the contact form on our website or leave us a voicemail as well. Wow, love so many options, so many options, And if you haven't subscribed to her a YouTube channel, it would be fabulous if you would. Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

1:04:12 The Companion with tat