Betty and Allan Gore/Candy and Pat Montgomery - Part 2 of 3

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. If there's one thing that we've learned in over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing. Your wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina. How are you? I am doing pretty good? How are you? I am great now that I'm sitting across the table from you. Yes, I'm so happy to be here again. And here part two. Of this still little maybe a little sarcasm. No, he's like a baseball game or something right now that you'd better rather be wise.

0:43 There's a game starting a little bit. You do seem to tend to time the recording times with when there's a Tiger's game on, But that's okay. There's a Tiger's game on every day. So yeah, how are the Tigers doing well? You know, they are trying to claw their way back into contention. They're doing pretty good, but they still have a ways to go, so we'll see. There was a Cubs Tigers series this week and what. Happened Tigers one, two out of three. Yeah, at Wrigley Field in Chicago. So that was great. I mean, it's great for one of us. I have no idea even what's going on with the Cubs. The Cubs are a good team. That's very generous. Have you to say. I don't know if the Lions are or not. I mean the animals, they're both.

1:28 They're both Detroit sports teams. If I'm being honest with you, I'm struggling a little bit today. I have a little bit of a headache. The humidity is back up here. And it's been working really hard. Got some corn sweat going on? Wait, corns? Yeah, corn sweat? What is corn sweat? I think we've talked about this before. It's like a Midwest phenomenon because we grow so much corn. The corn like it releases a lot of moisture into the air, and so that makes our climate more human in the summertime. Oh, I did not. I don't remember i''re talking about that, but I'm sure we did. Good thing about getting older is have these conversations. I have good news today. I put my contacts in the right eye yesterday they were switched. I have different prescriptions and one is for close up and one is for far.

2:20 And you didn't know it immediately. I knew it, but I just didn't change it. So I don't know my left for my right. Sometimes I shouldn't admit this to people. Are you a little dyslex No. No, it's not that. It's just that I do know I left for my right. But I feel like if I told you to raise your right hand, you would do it in like a split second. Right for me, I'm like, it's the one without the wedding ring. I don't know. I just I never the things I admit to people. But very fascinating. So I made you a snack. I made you like a kind of a meal. Could you smell it? Like you were working pretty hard in the kitchen? I could. I could not smell if I could hear something like sizzling, which.

3:02 Made me fried spaghetti fried spaghetti. In one of the episodes of Love and Death, I think it was Father's Day, Candy makes her husband Pat a fried spaghetti. He's like, oh, my favorite. Like, I've never heard of fried spaghetti far, So I decided. To make its exciting. Do you want to try it? Yeah? Absolutely? Wait, I also made you a little bit of garlic toast and some amy loose chicken meatballs around sale at Costco. So I threw a few of those that hungry. Yeah, so do you want to give it a try? Yeah? Absolutely?

3:42 What did you think of fried spaghetti? My new favorite you want for Father's Day? It's really good. I'm not sure how much different it is than just regular spaghetti. But you make the spaghetti and you put the you know, the pasta and the sauce together, and then you put some cheese in it, and then you fry it in a pan. My pan wasn't quite I don't think it was hot enough, or I didn't have enough oil or butter or whatever it's supposed to be. I think a little crunchier kind. I put it in the air fire for a couple of minutes because we wanted to get up here and record, so it should be like probably a little crispier. But yeah, I think it's really good. I'll post the recipe has really good flavor. There's a different version of fried spaghetti that's more like a pasta carbonara with like eggs, and I thought you would hate that. Yeah, that doesn't sound kind of like a throwback to the nineteen seventies and eighties. It seems like no, I just mean this recipe.

4:31 Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, but yeah, I would make it again. I think it's really good. Yeah, you will post the recipe. Oh what did you think of the meatballs? They're good, very good. Yeah, I thought the meatballs were really good too. They're a brand called Amylus. I got them at Costco. They run sale this week. We're just trying to get more protein and just meatballs are an easy thing to throw into your pasta or whatever, and I think they're pretty solid. One hundred and sixty calories for like four meatballs at about twenty grams of proteins. Nice. Did you dream last night of Betty and Candy? I did not. No, I didn't either. I'm surprised you're not. You've been so focused on this for Immersed. Yeah, I did watch. There is a movie from the nineteen eighties that I watched last night on double Space.

5:13 So we got a lot out of it. But we'll talk about that at the end of part three. Okay. Would you like to give a recap of part one? I would love to. It was June thirteenth, nineteen eighty, a blistering Friday the thirteenth in Collin County, Texas. Candy Montgomery left vacation Bible School to make what should have been a quick stop at the home of her friend Betty Gore to pick up Betty's daughter, Elisa's swimsuit. When Candy finally returned to church nearly two hours later, she had changed her clothes, bandaged a deep cut on her foot, and rehearsed an explanation for why she had been gone so long. The two couples at the center of this story, Betty and Alan Gore and Candy and Pat Montgomery, were young parents raising two children each while their husband's built careers in North Texas's rapidly growing technology industry. The families became friends through the First United Methodist Church in Lucas, where they volunteered together, sang in the choir, and worshiped together.

6:10 But beneath the surface, both marriages were under strain. Betty struggled with anxiety, loneliness, and postpartum depression, while Candy, despite her busy life and popularity, found herself increasingly restless and dissatisfied. In the fall of nineteen seventy eight, after literally bumping into Alan during a church volleyball game, she began to see him differently. That newfound attraction led Candy to make an unthinkable proposition, would Alan consider having an affair with her. He initially resisted, but the seeds had been planted, and he gradually warmed to the idea. Is there anything we didn't talk about there that we should mention? I think the only thing maybe is that Betty We mentioned in the summary that she suffered from anxiety and postpartum depression, but that also led to a lot of health problems. Right She was at the doctor constantly for edd.

7:00 Aches and stomach aches and a lot of different things too. Betty was also a school teacher. One thing I wanted to mention is if you watched Love and Death. In that series, they called Betty and Alan's daughter Alissa, but we're calling her Alisa. I watched a couple of documentaries with Betty's family, and that's what they called her. So that's the pronunciation that we're going with. Okay, Candy and Alan weren't supposed to fall in love. That was rule number one. On November fifteenth, Candy's birthday, Alan called and asked if she'd like to meet him in McKinney. The next day. He was getting his tires checked on his new truck they could have lunch while the truck was in the shop. Candy heartily agreed. When she arrived, he handed her a birthday card that read for the last of the Red Hot Lovers, with a small bag of red Hot inside. She loved it. They went to a small restaurant for lunch. The conversation flowed comfortably until Alan blurted out.

7:55 I've never done anything like an affair before. I haven't either. I would never be able to forgive myself if Betty ever found out about something like that. I think it would just be devastating to her. I feel the same way. I wouldn't want to see anyone heard by this, Pat or Betty. We would have to be so careful that no one would ever know except us. I've been thinking a lot about what you said about not wanting to get emotionally involved. That would be very important for me. Me too, Allan, I just want to enjoy myself without hurting myself or anyone else. Well, let's think about it some more, and maybe we should think about the hazards some more, and whether we want to take that risk. Fine, I think we should. At the end of the month, Candy invited Alan to her house for lunch. She made lasagna.

8:39 She was famous for her lasagna. Candy had taped a large white piece of butcher paper to the wall with two columns, why and why not. It made Alan laugh. He still required a little more convincing, but Candy was all in. That is the way to an engineer's heart. By the way is to make a list like that and be very logical and organized. Spreadsheeting really is the ideal. A few days later, he called and told Candy he was ready to start the affair. It was the most cautious, well thought out affair since ever. Before they started, Candy wrote up the rules and shared them with Allen. One if either of them ever wanted to end the affair for whatever reason, it would end, no questions asked. Two, if either one became too emotionally involved, the affair would end. Three. If they ever started taking risks they shouldn't be taken, the affair would end. Four.

9:33 All expenses, food, motel, gasoline would be shared equally. Five They would only meet on weekdays while their spouses were at work. Six Candy would be in charge of fixing lunch on the days they met, so they could have more time, they figured they would need all of Alan's two hours off for lunch. Seven Candy would be in charge of getting a motel room for the same reason. Eight they would meet on a Tuesday or a third day once every two weeks. This was because Candy was free only on the days when Ian attended preschool. She took him each Tuesday and Thursday from nine to two, but she figured that three out of those four school days she would need for all the other errands in church and school duties in her hectic schedule. Alan made it clear that he had no intentions of ever leaving Betty, and his eyes marriage was forever.

10:25 It's so organized. My biggest takeaway from this is that Alan has two hours for lunch. That's crazy. Well, they only saw each other every other week. Yes, so I think you could probably make excuses why you needed to be out. But the book that I read did say that he was able to make his own schedule. Yeah, and she actually wrote these rules down on paper, which seems that seems a little risky to me if they're really intent on not getting caught that these are written down somewhere, right. I had the same thought, and then these big pieces of butcher paper that she had like everything that she was doing at home. Don't you think if I made fried chicken for lunch, she would come home and you'd be like, oh, yeah, my fried chicken. Maybe she made enough for dinner later too. They scheduled their first encounter for December twelfth, nineteen seventy eight. Candy dropped the children off at school and then went home to prepare lunch marinated chicken, salad, one thousand island dressing, cheesecake, and wine.

11:21 I was going to make you that for a snack, but you don't like cheesecake. She placed it all in a picnic basket and a tablecloth and set off to find a motel near Alan's office in Richardson. She paid twenty nine dollars or one hundred and eighteen dollars today for room two thirteen at the Continental Inn and called Alan and gave him the address. She slipped into a light pink negligee and readied the lunch. When Alan arrived, it was clear that they were both very nervous. Candy joked, I feel like what we are eating. After they'd eaten and packed away the dishes, Alan gently kissed her. Then she returned the kiss with tongue. Alan hedged, has he never been French kids before? Candy wondered he was a fast learner. The sex was quick, but Candy thought he had promised as a lover. One thing was certain. She'd later tell friends that Allan had the most perfectly shaped penis that she had ever laid eyes on. Before they left, they showered together. After their first rendezvous, they began meeting at the cheaper, seedier Como motel across the street. Somehow, the run down motel made the affair feel even more illicit.

12:28 A room there cost twenty three fifty plus two dollars for the key deposit. They met once every other week. For both of them, but especially Allan, the affair became an escape from the pressures of marriage and everyday responsibilities. He was surprised how much he enjoyed it. With Candy, he could relax. She made him feel appreciated, cooking his favorite meals and leaving thoughtful notes and small treats on his car between visits. The relationship wasn't without gailt however, Betty was pregnant with her second child, and Allan knew that if she is discover the affair. It would devastate her. But Betty and Allan didn't just have sex. They talked and could diffideed in one another. It was probably Candy's favorite part. As the weeks ticked by, they grew closer, closer than they'd intended, definitely close to breaking one of the rules. Allan called Candy most days from his office just to say hi, to see how her day was.

13:22 A couple of months in, Candy told Allan she wasn't sure they should continue. I think about you too much, she said, I can't fall in love with you. Allan pleaded with Candy to let their relationship run its course. She agreed, but as Betty's due date approached, Alan told Candy they needed to cool things off. He could not be with Candy when his wife went into labor. He would never forgive himself if she was being honest with herself. Candy was relieved to take the break. She cared about Allan, but the sex had become as routine as it had in her marriage. He'd become another man that she needed to cook for, and it was all a little tiring. But after the new baby was born, despite her reservations, Candy and Allen continued the affair.

14:04 I find it interesting that she was talking to her friends about his penis, only because they were so adamant that this if we have to no one can find out about this. It can only be between us. But it sounds like Candy turned right around and told her friends about this. I may have misrepresented that fact. It might have just been Sherry and eventually Jackie Ponder pastor Jackie. But even telling one person, it's like, you know, those kind of things they get. Me and Sherry were really close, and she knew that she could count on Sherry to keep her secret. But you're right, but you know, girls do talk about things like that. I guess so. Betty had struggled with depression and the physical effects of stress long before the birth of her second daughter, but after Bethany was born, she developed postpartum depression, leaving her feeling increasingly isolated, anxious, and overwhelmed. She found comfort and routine. Betty liked to plan ahead, stay organized, and know what to expect in a world where so much felt uncertain. Creating order gave her a sense of stability.

15:05 To some, she could come across as rigid or controlling, but it wasn't about controlling other people. It was her way of managing the anxiety that came from a world she knew she couldn't control. A couple of months after Bethany was born, Betty initiated love making, which was atypical. Alan had been with Candy earlier in the day and wasn't interested. After he rebuffed her advances, Betty was embarrassed and devastated. She accused Alan of not loving her anymore and not being attracted to her. He tried to calm her, but she spiraled further and fell into another depression and some of her health issues re emerged. Alan decided he needed to break things off with Candy. It wasn't fair to Betty, but Candy didn't want to end their affair.

15:50 I do love you, Allan, I. Know, but we've become too close. We've become so close that I'm afraid I don't love Betty anymore, and that was never part of our agreement. We've both been using each other to fill gaps in our marriages and that's not right. It's just so unfair. Later that month, Alan accepted a job with ECS Telecommunications. They were among the first installers of voicemail systems for businesses. It was a good opportunity for Alan, but required more travel, which Betty loathed. However, she agreed the opportunity was too good to pass up with the higher salary and stock options. The new job would also mean that Alan wouldn't be able to spend as much time with Candy. She could sense they were nearing the end of the affair, and she wasn't sure how she would go back to normal life.

16:39 In the fall of nineteen seventy eight, Pastor Jackie was offered a new position that was a perfect fit. She would be in charge of the Wesley Foundation, the Methodist campus ministry at Midwestern University in Wichita Falls. It was an opportunity to combine her passion for teaching with her calling to ministry, serving both the university community and the congregation that worshiped on campus. It was a hard decision because she loved her first United Methodist family. She turned it down initially, but later accepted the job. Pastor Jackie leaving devastated both Candy and Betty. They looked up to her so much, and especially for Candy, she had become a confidant and just a very close friend.

17:21 Her leaving was very hard on both of them, okay. Pastor Jackie's poor replacement was a twenty four year old minister named Ron Adams. Betty wasn't impressed. In her opinion, which she rarely kept to herself, Ron was no substitute for Jackie. She doubted the young, inexperienced pastor could move, inspire, and lead the congregation the way that Jackie had. He lacked her warmth, joy, and enthusiasm. Betty's opinion of him only worsened after he announced that the handmade holiday decorations created by members of the congregation would have to go. He read his sermons in an uninspired way from note cards, rarely looking up or engaging the congregation. Pastor Ron didn't seem to like that first United Methodist was run mostly by women like Candy and Betty. He didn't seem to like women or children at all. He was rude to his wife and stand offish to his son. Betty lost her cool when he asked for ten thousand dollars or forty thousand dollars today to remodel the parsonage. Around here, we work on our own homes. She told him how much of the anti Pastor Ron sentiment. Do you think is because he wasn't good at his job versus he had big shoes to fill and people loved Pastor Jackie, so they were going to be negative, negatively predisposed.

18:42 We talked about this a little bit in episode one, how because this church had such a small congregation before Pastor Jackie, a lot of new. Young pastors or rotating in and out. Yeah, exactly. So I think he was just, you know, one of these younger people that was just trying to, you know, learn how to do the job. And he would probably be moving on someday. And you know, Betty hadn't been in the congregation that long really, I think less than a year, So I mean, I can understand why she was upset because she was you know, she really did love Jackie and she was really moved by her. So Pastor Ron, yeah, he probably wasn't the greatest guy, but I think she was pretty hard on him too. We'll be back after a break.

19:30 After the arrival of their new daughter, Betty's anxiety and self doubt re emerged. In the summer of nineteen seventy nine, Alan asked Betty to attend a marriage Encounter Weekend with him in hopes of strengthening their relationship. Marriage Encounter was an immersive, faith based retreat designed to help couples improve their communication, deepen their intimacy, and renew their marriage vows. To outsiders, the program had a cult like aspect to it. Betty initially refused, but by the fall she agreed to go. The weekend removed the distractions of everyday life. Through letter writing exercises and honest conversations about their feelings, Betty and Allan came to understand each other in a new way.

20:12 On October twenty eighth, nineteen seventy nine, Betty wrote Allan the following letter. It shows us her state of mind and deep insecurity. Dear Allan, sometimes I have doubts about my worth as a person and wonder if I really am accomplishing anything and am doing what God would want me to do. But if you express your pride in me, then I feel reassured that I am really important. I need to be reassured and told this often, just as I need to see and feel tangible evidence of your love. I love you, Betty. Allan realized he had misunderstood Betty and gained a deeper appreciation for what she had been struggling with. One writing prompt, asked what you liked most about your spouse, Betty answered, the thing I like best about you is your calmness and your ability to look at everything squarely. You don't know, or maybe you do, how this affects me. You're my tranquilizer. When asked what she liked most about their relationship as a couple, she wrote that special feeling I get when we're together, warm and happy. It's horrible when we're not. It's like I'm only half of me. Maybe that means I'm not secure enough.

21:20 I don't think so. Your presence is just important to me. Allan wrote that he admired Betty's dedication to raising the children and her job. He thought his strongest qualities were his unflappable calmness and rationality. He thought that they had a promising future. He felt secure, but not totally fulfilled yet in their marriage. When asked to write about his feelings of disillusionment, Allen wrote, I have feelings of boredom, emptiness, and sort of loneliness. I don't really know why, but I do. I don't feel like I really know what makes you happy, and that's frustrating. Sometimes I feel like what is most important to you is your classroom, not me. Not be true, but sometimes I feel jealous of that classroom.

22:04 And Betty's last letter, she wrote here, I sit crying because I am so happy and so proud to be your wife. I've known that all along, but when you really stop to think about it, we are so lucky to have each other. Let's don't let anything come between us. We've been through so much, all of it we can look back at as good, except the times you were gone for a long time. I remember those times with dread, the a loneness, the coldness of a house that really wasn't a home without you there, The fear for your safety because you were where I was not and I couldn't make sure that you were okay. I never really felt fear for my safety at home alone, But the feeling of being alone is the worst possible one to have. It's like you're in a dark tunnel and you've got a long ways to go to the light. The light isn't there till you're home again, safe and sound. So these letters really give us a look into their marriage and Betty's deep insecurity and how heavily she leaned on Alan.

22:59 Yeah, for sure, Alan. At this time, he and Candy had broken things off right and he was really making an effort to try to make things work or no, no. They were still seeing each other. Oh they were, oh okay. And I think this weekend really was a transition when he realized how important he was to Betty. And you know, I think he wanted to straighten things up after this, gotcha. The retreat concluded with a vow renewal ceremony. Allen left with a renewed commitment to put Betty first in his life. He knew that he needed to win things with Candy. Allan even agreed to leave First United Methodists for Betty. When Betty and Allen were at the retreat, Candy and Pat watched Alisa and Bethany for the weekend. When Betty and Allan arrived to pick up the girls, Candy sensed something had shifted in their marriage. There was a new closeness between them, a lightness that she hadn't seen before in Betty. They were beaming. Candy bristled. She had never seen them look so happy and calm. After the marriage encounter.

23:58 Allan invited Candy to a picnic lunch and told her the affair was over. She told him how unfair that was to her, but he was steadfast. After the break up, Candy and Sherry began going to nightclubs, dancing, and meeting men. At her neighbor's Halloween party, Candy met a man named Richard, who asked her to meet up with him the next morning for coffee. Coffee led to a maryatte hotel in Dallas. Richard proved to be more exciting and skilled than Alan, but he lacked the sweetness and connection. He also took more risks, calling Candy's house and even showing up one afternoon unannounced. After six weeks, Candy ended the affair. She had an epiphany, As she later told her friend Sherry, she wanted to rediscover me rather than looking outside her marriage for fulfillment. Candy threw her energy into a new venture.

24:48 She and Sherry decided to launch a wallpaper and painting business they called Cover Girls. Candy decided that she and Pat should go to Marriage and Counter and work on their marriage, and he agreed. The weekend did bring them closer, but they didn't become as devoted to the program as some of their friends had. It was too much work, but Betty Gore was an absolute believer in the program. Shea fixed a marriage Encounter sticker to the bumper of her car, and a latge hook rug with the emblem decorated the wall above their fireplace. She and Alan were flames, meaning that they were sponsors of newly encountered couples. She called Candy to invite her and Pat over for dinner. I'm sure of whether or not to accept the invitation, she called Alan. They agreed to have lunch to talk over the situation. After the lunch, Candy called Sherry and told her, I think I've finally gotten Alan out of my system. I found out I really didn't have anything to say to him, and do you know what, his eyes are too close together. By the time lunch was over, I had no desire to go to bed with him ever. Again, do you believe this sentiment?

25:54 I am not really buying it though, Yeah, because. She said it makes me not believe it. This Marriage and Counter program was pretty intense. I think every day you had there was like there were lessons and you had to take ten minutes and there was a prompt and you had to write a letter to your partner, I think almost every day. And so for Candy, she was like, that's just too much work and I don't want to do it right. But it was really working for Betty and Allen. It really changed Betty's whole mindset. That's cool. Candy threw herself into church and volunteer work. In April nineteen eighty, she went on a retreat with a friend, leaving Pat and the children to fend for themselves for the weekend. Feeling melancholy, Pat decided to reread his and Candy's correspondence from their dating days, but he couldn't find the letters. He was surging through Candy's drawers when he found a letter from Alan. The letter was revealing. It mentioned their hotel rendezvous, the lunches, Candy prepared their love for each other, et cetera. Alan mentioned ending the affair.

26:54 After the marriage encounter. Weekend, Pat was crestfallen. He wished he could call Candy and tell her how he was feeling. After a sleeveless night, he called Sherry and asked her if Candy and Alan had had an affair. She had admitted that they had, but promised Pat that it was in the past. Candy loved him and was focused on their marriage. Pat took the day to reflect on their marriage. When Candy came home on Sunday, he greeted her with flowers and a heartfelt letter. Pat apologized to Candy for not being more emotionally available to her. He took the blame for the affair. Pat and Candy took a second honeymoon to South Padre Island to celebrate their ten year anniversary. By the summer of nineteen eighty, it seemed that Betty and Alan Gore and Candy and Pat Montgomery's marriages were back on track and stronger than ever.

27:40 A quick question, it sounds like Pat told Candy that he found out about the affair. Yeah. Oh, he definitely told her. Yeah. On June thirteenth, nineteen eighty, Candy tried to slow her breathing as she drove back to the church, putting the events of the last ninety minutes out of her mind and focused instead on getting through the rest of the day. She hurried back into the first trying her best not to limp despite her throbbing toe. She offered apologies for missing the parade. She told several people the same thing. Oh, I'm so upset. I went down to Betty's to get Alisa's swimsuit and we just got to talking, and then I thought I had time to go buy Father's Day cards at Target, but my watch stopped and I didn't realize when I got there, so I was late getting back. Sharp eyed Betty huff Hines didn't say anything, but she noticed that Candy had traded her ubiquitous flip flops for blue sneakers.

28:30 After the luncheon at the church was over, Candy took the three children to Bolmart to pick up Father's Day cards and then headed home for a bit. Before Alisa's swim lesson. She called Pat and told him that they'd pick him up at four forty five to go to Dallas to see the movie and get dinner. Parked outside of Texas Instruments, waiting for him, Candy pictured eleven month old Bethany Gore, Alisa's baby sister. She had been left alone since before noon. She reassured herself that Alan would be home soon and every thing would be okay. Candy didn't know that Allan was traveling to Minnesota for the weekend. As hard as she tried, she couldn't shake the thought that her actions had caused two young girls to be motherless.

29:12 At the Gore household, it had been an unsettling day. The two little cocker spaniels barked all afternoon while Bethany wailed in her crib. No one came to their rescue. Poor Betty Gore lay dead in her laundry room. Alan called the house at four p m. From the airport, but no one answered. A neighbor girl, five year old Tina, had walked over and rang the doorbell, hopeful to play with Elisa, but no one answered the door. When she got home, Tina told her grandmother that she could hear the baby crying inside. After the movie was over, the Montgomerys decided to pick up tacos. On the way home. Pat went for a run while it was still light outside. When he returned, drinking a glass of orange juice over the sink, the phone ring It was allan Gore calling from Saint Paul, Minnesota. Have you seen Betty. I've been trying to get a hold of her all afternoon. I'm getting worried. The blood rushed in Candy's ears, she felt lightheaded.

30:05 Grasping the counter for support, she explained that they'd extended the sleepover and that Alisa was still with them. They just returned from Empire Strikes Back. I haven't seen Betty since this morning when I picked up Alisa's swimsuit. Wow, it was the truth. Just so I have the timeline right in my mind. What time did Candy go over to Betty's house? Probably tennish ten thirty am or so. She was back to the church by noon, okay. And then they went out to a movie afterwards. So by the time Alan is calling Betty here, it's fairly late in the day. Yeah, it's probably seven o'clock or so. And the poor baby, mm hmm, it's so heartbreaking to think of her in hair crib. Yeah, just crying and crying.

30:48 And yeah, even though it was Friday, Alan had flown to Minnesota to work over the weekend. He had recently left his secure job at Rockwell International for a new venture with a small electric conics company, ECS Telecommunications. There was a little risk involved, but the payoff had the potential to be huge. The job required long hours and sometimes travel on weekends to placate major customers like three M in order for them to compete with the big dogs like Texas Instruments and rock Well. Alan was there because three M needed their message switching system operational immediately. The project was already two weeks overdue, and he was feeling the heat. Alan enjoyed the challenge of his work, and if he was being honest, while he loved his wife, it was nice to have a little breather from her and their daughters, but Betty hated it when he traveled.

31:39 Her anxiety worsened when she was forced to handle everything on her own. Things went smoother if Alan checked in with her a few times a day, But where was she? Although Betty hadn't been happy about the trip to Minnesota over the weekend, she hadn't minded as much as usual because in a week she and Alan were traveling to Europe without their children for a second honeymoon. Betty was over the moon about spending a week alone with Alan, although that morning she'd been panicked because her period was late. Her first two pregnancies had been difficult, and she most definitely wasn't ready for a third. Alan called home when he got to the airport before his flight, but there was no answer. He called again and again, but still no answer. After he landed in Minneapolis, he tried again, still no answer. This was highly unusual. Betty wasn't one to make spontaneous plans. The only thing on her schedule that day was Elisa's swim lesson. After that, he knew that Betty was planning on doing laundry and working on sewing some new outfits for their Europe trip. Alan checked into his hotel before meeting friends for dinner. At nine pm, he called his neighbor, Richard Parker, and asked if he would go check on Betty and the girls. Parker was a realtor and had sold Betty and Alan their house three years earlier. The Gores mostly kept to themselves and weren't friendly neighbors, so it was an awkward request. Richard was looking after his own children while his wife was having a girl's night, but he said he'd run over and look real quick. He didn't even put on shoes

33:11 when he ran across the street to check things out. He knocked on the door, but no one answered. Although the lights were on, he didn't hear a sound. Richard sprinted back to his house and told Alan they must be out. No answer, but Alan knew that Betty wouldn't be out this late without him. He thanked his neighbor and then called the Montgomery house. After Candy told him that she hadn't seen Betty since that morning, he asked to speak with Elisa. Sweat gathered on Candy's brow as she realized that Alan was on a business trip and not at home. Baby Bethany had been alone for over nine hours. Alan met his friends for dinner, though he was so worried he didn't have much of an appetite.

33:51 Was Betty mad at him? He wondered? Was that why she wasn't answering the phone. When he returned from dinner, it was ten p m. He called his neighbor again and asked him to see if Betty's car was in the garage. He held the phone while Richard again sprinted across the street. Yep, her car's there. The door is open and the light is on. Alan knew Betty would never go to bed and leave the overhead garage door open in a million years. Once inside the garage, there was a door that led right into their laundry, room. Alarmed, Alan asked Richard if he could look up the number for the police and the hospital for him. When Alan called, neither had any information for him. He didn't know who to call next, but dialed the Montgomery's number again from memory, Candy, I don't know what to do. I'm so worried.

34:38 Stay called Alan. Do you want me to run over there and check on things. No, No, I'll call the neighbor again. Call me back, Alan, Now you've got me worrying. Okay, I'll call you later. Alan called his neighbor back a third time, or Richard like, just you know, this is not a close friend. It's a little bit awkward, like asking your neighbor to continue any think by this. Point he's worried and he doesn't really want to be part of Yeah whatever, whatever, yeah exactly. Richard agreed to find an open door or window and enter the house and call Alan back. Richard called his own wife and asked her to head home. He had a horrible feeling that something was wrong at the gorehouse and now he was at the center of things. When he crossed the street again, he spotted a second car in the driveway, a little Volkswagen rabbit that hadn't been there before.

35:26 It had been, he just didn't notice. It, okay. Concerned that Richard might need backup, Alan called another neighbor, Jerry McMahon. He was already in bed, but Alan asked his wife Tommy, to wake him up. When he came to the phone, Alan implored him to go over to his house while he stayed on the line. Jerry pounded on the doors and walked all the way around the house, but didn't see or hear anything unusual. He returned to his house and told Alan that nothing seemed a miss. Alan begged Jerry to break into the house by any means necessary. Tommy insists did that Jerry not go there alone, and called their other neighbor, Lester Galer, and got him out of bed to help Jerry break into the Gore's house. Lester and Jerry met Richard, who was returning to the house with his big ring of realtor keys. The front door swung open as soon as he tried to insert a key into the lock. It had been open all along. The hair on the back of the men's necks prickled in fear as they walked through the ranch house, calling for Betty. The living room was cozy, tidy, and nicely decorated. Nothing amiss here. They walked down the hallway leading to the bedroom's single file.

36:35 All the doors were shut, which felt eerie for some reason. First they opened to Lisa's door, nothing there, Then the primary bedroom, also unoccupied. Lester shined his flashlight into the bathroom. His eyes widened as he spotted the dried puddles of blood on the otherwise pristine tile. When they got to the last bedroom and flipped the light switch, Bethany came awake and wailed at them. Her little face was red as a tomato and a tear stained mess, her hair tangled with her own feces. The poor baby looked almost feral to the men in her anguished state. Richard cradled Bethany to his chest and ran out of the house with her, handing her over to his wife, Cindy. He yelled at her to call the police as he dashed out of the house with his pistol in hand. He returned just as Lester found Betty lying dead on the floor of her tiny laundry room, among thick puddles of her sticky, drying blood. She was lying with her head next to the freezer. Blood spatter covered almost every surface in the room. Her arm appeared at first glance to be severed. She was dressed in a yellow top and red pants, but both were so saturated in blood they appeared brown and stiff. There was so much blood in the room it seemed impossible that her body held any more.

37:52 Near Betty's body lay an axe about three feet long, covered in blood. Jerry knew he didn't need to check for a pulse. Betty Gore was long gone. Jerry didn't allow his eyes to linger too long, but he knew he'd never forget the sight of the brutally slain young mother. He shut the door to spare his neighbors the grisly vision. She's dead, he announced soberly. A moment later, the phone jangled in the kitchen, jolting all of them. It was Alan Richard delivered the heartbreaking news Betty was gone. He thought it looked like she'd been shot, possibly self inflicted. We don't even own a gun, Alan said, forlornly. She has been going through some things lately. It was eleven thirty, but he called Candy to update her. She told Alan how sorry she was and that she would keep Alisa as long as needed. Candy hung up the phone and then sobbed into her husband's shoulder. First of all, it's a horrifying scene that they've walked into. Second, it seems really odd that they said that they thought that it might have been a gunshot. Like, there's an axe laying next to her, her arm is almost severed.

38:59 Well, I think that the scene was so gruesome. No one was like standing there, like you took one look at it and then you got out of there. Yeah, it was People just don't think that you're going to be attacked with an axe. And I don't think they noticed the acts. I think it was slightly under their freezer or something. Yeah, makes sense. I have a lot of sympathy for Betty, but also for Pat in this situation. So Alan has called the Montgomery house more than five times, and Pat knows about the affair at this point, so he must be like, what's going on? You know why, Like, obviously there's a tragedy that has gone on, but still the fact that Alan is calling Candy so much must have been on his weighing on it.

39:39 Yeah, definitely, we'll be back after a break. As police brushed to the crime scene at Dogwood Drive. Despite the late hour, words spread quickly about Betty's gruesome death. The first rumor was that Betty had taken her their own life, but that quickly gave way to whispers that a murder had taken place, and before long people were wondering whether a killer was on the loose. Everyone locked their doors up tightly that night. It was the first murder that the Wiley Police Department had ever investigated, and the town's four manned police force would need reinforcements, lots of them. Eventually, the Collin County Sheriff's Office, the Dallas Police Department, the Texas Department of Public Safety, Criminal Intelligence Division, Texas Rangers, and the Dallas County Sheriff's Office would lend their staff and resources. The Gore's small house quickly filled with law enforcement as the investigation got under way. A crowd of curious neighbors and onlookers gathered outside. Inside, there were more than a dozen officers moving through the home, some with no connection to the investigation who would simply come to see the scene for themselves. Combined with the three neighbors who had already entered the house before the police arrived. The large number of people made preserving the crime scene challenging. It looked like a struggle had taken place.

41:06 That was contained to the front porch and entryway, the laundry room, and the hall bath. On the freezer in the laundry room was a single thumb print and blood. One of the investigators on the scene was talking about the thumb print and how it's almost impossible to lift dried blood on a fingerprint pats. It just kind of turns to dust. And this police force is so inexperienced. They took like just a piece of clear tape and they had put like post it note or not post it notes, but like index cards it said crime scene. They didn't even have crime scene tape. Oh wow. It was obvious that Betty's body had lain in the laundry room for hours before the neighbors had discovered her.

41:48 On the kitchen table, the newspaper sat open to the entertainment section. The paper seemed to be folded to highlight a new movie from Stanley Kubrick The Shining. Was this a clue? It was Friday the thirteenth, after all, and there was. A famous scene in the Shining involving an axe. So I could see how they might think. That nineteen eighty is a very interesting year because the Shining was released, and so was the first Friday, the thirteenth move Oh wow. Investigators began combing the house for evidence. A pair of smashed sunglasses were found kicked under the freezer. One lens was found in the garage. The laundry room was a sight, but so was the hall, bathroom. The sink, bathtub, floor, and even the soap had traces of blood. The bath mat was soaked and diluted blood. The killer had been very careless. Blood was scraped from the tile to determine if it belonged to Betty or someone else. Likewise, a clump of hair was removed from the bathtub drain. Whoever had violently killed Betty, it appeared, had taken a shower washing away evidence before leaving the house. As investigators processed the scene, every doorknob in the areas where the struggle had taken place were removed for fingerprint analysis. Squares of Lenaul Lilliam bearing bloody footprints were cut from the floor, and a bloodied finger nail was recovered from the living room.

43:05 The crime scene investigators reached two early conclusions. The murder weapon and ordinary household asks suggested the attack had been spontaneous rather than premeditated. The small, bloody footprints also led them to believe that the killer was likely a woman. Cash left in plain sight ruled out robbery as a motive. The csis were at the gorehouse until morning, gathering evidence and piecing together the sequence of events. A letter written to Betty from Allan from their marriage and counter homework was found. It read, our marriage has changed a lot since our weekend. Before the weekend, I did an awful lot of thinking and worrying about what I was getting out of our marriage and whether or not you were doing things for me. The weekend showed me that what I needed to do was focus on you and us instead of me. I have really tried to do that.

43:55 I have found that it is even fun for me to help you without complaining. We talk more when I do. I've also found that I can place you, us and our family ahead of my job and other activities and still be successful in them. It's the dialogue that does it, because when we don't, I feel myself slipping back to thinking about me instead of you and us. We have got to get back to a regular, everyday dialogue schedule. I love you, Alan, So this letter shows me that he really did learn a lot from this weekend. If these prefer to believe this letter, who do you think? Do you think this is sincere? It sounds sincere to me. Yeah. Alan Gore was still in Minnesota and felt helpless. The earliest flight he could get back to Texas wasn't until the following morning. When he called home. Wiley Police Chief Royce Abbot answered the phone. Alan explained that he was away on a business trip and had been unable to reach Betty all day. When Abbot asked whether Betty had been expecting any visitors, Alan said the only person he knew of was Candy Montgomery, who was supposed to stop by and pick up Elisa's swimsuit. It seemed awfully convenient to Chief Abbot that Allan had been out of town and the very night his wife was murdered, and who left town on a Friday afternoon for a work trip.

45:09 Abbot made a note to confirm Allan's flight and travel arrangements with the airline. Later, he confirmed Alan's story. Nearly his entire day had been corroborated by his co workers. This part is a little gory, but I tried not to go into great details. The autopsy of Betty Gore's body held the most clues. It was performed by doctor Vincent Demayo. He scanned Betty's body before he started the overwhelming task of cataloging all of the wounds on her face and body. Doctor Demayo concluded that of the forty one axe wounds that Betty had suffered, forty had occurred while she was still alive, and most after she had fallen to the ground. Twenty eight of the wounds were to Betty's head. The remainder were to her upper body, including her arms, shoulders, and hands. There were three cuts to her thighs. The wounds to her face and head were the deepest and most severe. Some were very deep, even cracking her skull open and reaching her brain cavity.

46:06 Her left eye was open and her right was obliterated. The axe cuts were at a consistent angle, indicating Betty had not moved much to fend off the attack. Whoever had attacked Betty was very angry. The damage to her face let the coroner to believe a crime of passion had taken place. Betty also had hair in her hands that was not hers. She was not pregnant, as she had feared. Betty's cause of death was due to the extreme head trauma, and the manner of death was homicide. Candy awoke on Saturday, June fourteenth, and headed straight to the kitchen to make coffee. She had only managed to get a few hours of sleep, her mind spinning between brief moments of rest. She'd talked to Allan several times the previous night. He seemed devastated and confused how this had happened. He told her that the police would likely be contacting her later that day to question her about her visit with Betty. On Friday, Allan asked her not to tell Elisa. His return flight landed before noon. While Candy drank her morning coffee, she called Ron Adams, pastor of their church, to notify him of Betty's death. I heard she was shot, she told Ron she knew better.

47:16 Ron hadn't seen Betty since the Gorys had left the church weeks ago, and wasn't sure how to navigate the situation. After she had hung up with the pastor. Candy called her best friend, Sherry, have you heard about Betty? She was shot dead in her home. The phone rang off the hook all morning as Candy's friends called her to talk about Betty. By the afternoon, most people had learned that Betty had been attacked with an axe, not shot with a gun. The best clue the assailant had left behind were bloody footprints. Pat set about doing yard work that morning, in between phone calls and neighbors stopping by, all to talk about how sad it was about Betty Gore's death. Candy decided to trim the hedges. After she was done, she took her flip flops that she'd worn the day before and shut them into small pieces and threw them into the trash.

48:04 The police completed their investigation of the Gore's house by eight a m. Friends and neighbors cleaned the house so Alan wouldn't have to see the gory crime scene. Pastor Ron and a few friends were at the airport to greet him and drive him home. When he arrived at Dogwood Drive, Allan's neighbor Dick Sewell was there to update Alan on the investigation. He still believed that Betty had been shot. When Dick told him that Betty had been brutally attacked with an axe, he blanched and nearly passed out. Alan was overwhelmed by guilt. What had Betty's final moments been like? Had her extreme anxiety about him traveling been some sort of premonition. Dick had one more bomb to drop on Alan. The police did not think that Betty's murder had been random. Whoever killed her most likely knew her.

48:52 Alan had called his parents and Betty's the night before, and they were now en route to Texas. The Pomeroys, especially Bertha, Betty's mother, were heartbroken. A doctor had to be called to medicate Bertha. She remembered the chilling fortune a palm reader had given her when she was a teenager. You'll marry a farmer, have three children, and one of them will die young. Oh that's pretty weird. It's kind of weird that a fortune teller says something that negative anyway, but it's just very odd. Given the situation, Alan went to the funeral home straight away to make arrangements. He decided to have a memorial service in Texas and a funeral and burial in Norwich, Kansas, where Betty was born.

49:36 Alan called Candy again, whose voice seemed to be a comfort to him. He'd called her seven times since he found out that Betty was dead. He asked her to bring a Lisa home around three point thirty. She still didn't know that her mother was gone. He asked Candy and Pat to stay to support Alisa while he told her, and they agreed. Last night, somebody very bad came in the house and cut up mommy, very bad, and Mommy is never coming back. Alisa didn't respond. She looked confused and then began to cry. Do you understand Who's going to cook dinner for us? She asked, We'll just have to cook dinner for ourselves now, Who's going to take care of us? Candy was overcome with emotion, her body racked with sobs. She came over to where Elisa sat on Alan's lap and embraced them both. Church that Sunday Father's Day was well attended, but no one remembered what was said. The congregation sat glassy eyed listening to Pastor Ron Adams, a man that Betty Gore had openly hated, but he didn't mention her name. After a Father's Day barbecue, Candy went to the Wily Police station for an interview.

50:46 She dressed up for the occasion, wearing a dress, black panteos, and peep toe' shoes. The outfit was strategic to hide her bruised legs an injured toe. She calmly went through Friday the thirteenth hour by claiming that she got to Betty's around ten am and stayed for only about fifteen minutes. They asked Candy what shoes she was wearing on Friday morning. My blue sneakers with a thin rubber soule, she answered. The police said they'd need to see them. The interview lasted about ninety minutes. At the end, Candy had answered all their questions and felt good about her performance. When Alan Gore came for an interview, four detectives from different departments were in the room to interview him. They were suspicious of him from the jump, but he wasn't nervous and appeared to answer honestly. He said that his marriage to Betty had its ups and downs due to her depression, but they had been doing well since they joined marriage encounter.

51:42 When asked if he'd ever had an affair. He said no, The interview was over and he was free to go. The next morning, after a sleepless night, he called Chief Abbot. Chiefabbot, this is Alan Gore. I'm calling to tell you that there's one thing I wasn't truthful about last night. What's that Elan? I did have an affair, oh, with Candy Montgomery. It's good you told us Alan. Candy already told us she hadn't really, but the sheep didn't want Alan and Candy exchanging stories. Investigators asked Alan to come to the station for additional questioning, and he agreed. Although he was advised of his Miranda rights, he was not placed under arrest. Allan again insisted that he hadn't killed Betty and had no idea who had.

52:29 He also agreed to take a polygraph examination. Law enforcement knew they were on the right track, they just couldn't decide if Candy and Alan had acted together. They asked Candy to return for further questioning. When she arrived at the station, she was fingerprinted. Under intense questioning, Candy insisted that she didn't murder Betty, but when she was shown the bloody fingerprint, she was rattled. They asked her for her blue sneakers and flip flops, and she handed over both. They asked her there was a different pair of flip flops. She had a lot of flip clops, didn't she. They asked her to return the next day to take a polygraph. Did she agree to take a polygraph? I believe she did, but then she had lawyered off and her lawyer was like, mm m oh ma'am.

53:12 By Monday, Betty's parents and siblings arrived in Wiley. A steady stream of friends and church members came to the house to offer condolences and cast roles. Candy came to the house to drop off food and meet Betty's family. They all enjoyed her company and thought she was friendly and kind. A man called the Gore's house several times saying that he had killed Betty. It was a sick, disturbing joke. The last time he phoned, police traced the call to find that it came from inside a mental institution. The next day, two hundred and fifty people crammed into First United Methodists to honor Betty. The media swarmed the funeral goers. Candy and Pat sat near the front with Betty's family, The casket remained closed. Pastor Ron Adams officiated the funeral because no one else else was available. Betty would have hated that Pastor Ron felt awkward, but to everyone's surprise, he rose to the occasion. How can a thing like this happen? How can it happen to a person who is so needed by her family, a mother so needed by her children, a daughter so loved by her parents. Why do things like this happen When death comes by some more normal method, whether organic, by aging, or even accident. It's difficult enough, but an act of violence seems simply incomprehensible. No one has the answers to all the questions of life. The police were there too, photographing license plate numbers and the attendees. The next day, Alan drove to Norwich, Kansas with the Pomeroys to lay

54:44 Betty to rest. It was a surreal experience to see how loved she was in her hometown, her former classmates and boyfriends carrying her casket. It was like there were two bettys. Alan sat in front with tears rolling down his face, not because he was sad that his wife was gone, but because of the deep guilt and shame he felt, not knowing if he ever truly loved her. After the funeral, knowing that the truth would be revealed by the media, he admitted to his family that he had had an affair with a woman from church. They were very disappointed in him. Later that night, Alan went to Betty's family to tell them about the affair too. He said it was the hardest conversation of his life.

55:26 He begged for their forgiveness. After Candy's tense police interview, she and Pat went to see their friend Don Crowder on June eighteenth. Crowder knew the Montgomery's through church and considered them both friends. A former football player who had once hoped to play professionally, Crowder initially enrolled in law school because it gave him one more year of eligibility on the football field. Competitive by nature, Crowder saw the courtroom as another arena where there was always a winner and a loser. But despite years of practicing law, mostly as an ambulance chaser, he had never defended a murder case. He also couldn't imagine that Candy Montgomery had murdered Betty Gore.

56:07 As far as Crowder was concerned, the police were simply looking in the wrong direction. He knew Candy was not capable of hurting anyone. After his meeting with Candy, unable to sleep, Don made a list of why she could not have murdered Betty, size, clothing, demeanor. He was confident that she was covering up for someone, but who most likely Alan. By the next day, though the media was closely following Candy, which made her very nervous. She called Don and he told her to come to his house. I don't think you did it, but I think you know who did it. I think you're covering up something. Who are you covering for? No one? Did Alan do it? Did you walk in on something and get scared?

56:50 Alan didn't do it? How do you know? Because I didn't what I didn't? I don't believe you. But by the end of their conversation she had convinced him the truth hung heavily between them. Candy was slightly relieved Don wasn't rob Yidishon. Don's partner was only three years out of law school, but he had more experience with criminal cases and worked closely on the case in the coming months. But Candy was smart to trust Don to lead her case, despite his lack of experience in criminal law. To avoid the media, Candy, pat and their children stayed with Sherry and her family, hoping the dust would settle. But things were about to get a lot worse for Candy Montgomery.

57:34 We'll talk about Don Crowder more in episode three, but he is quite a character, really interesting guy. Yeah. Interesting that she admitted to him that she did it. I don't know what the advice is normally, but I think lawyers they don't want to know if you did it or not normally, right. I think he was a little surprised that she told him. I think she needed to get it off her chest. Yeah, but at that point, the evidence was stacking up against her fingerprint. I don't we mentioned it yet, but it would be identified as far as. Yeah, sounds like foot prints. Pretty messy crime scene, and pa, it's. Really strange to me that she took no care in cleaning up the crime scene whatsoever. So I guess in the next episode we'll talk more about her state of mind during the crime. Oh yeah, do you think it's possible to have an affair and not develop feelings? They were both very adamant that we're not going to say I love you, We're not going to but they both really did, and fairly quickly. It sounds like.

58:32 It's probably very difficult to have a long term affair, like yeah, maybe you know, one night stand or something like that, but if you're having an affair, like a regular affair with somebody and seeing them, and yeah, it would be it's not at all surprising that they developed feelings. And I think the affair went on from December until October, so I think about ten months. But they were broken off at the time of Betty's murder, right, do you know how long or or were they not? I mean I think that they were. I think that everyone thinks they were. But you know, that's something that I guess I want everyone to think about when we finished part three, like if you think that it's possible that because all we have is their account of events, right, But the whole marriage encounter, to me does seem that.

59:16 Seems like that was a turning point for Allan. At how long before her murder was the marriage encounter. I mean it was several months, because marriage encounter was in October of nineteen seventy nine, and then she was murdered on June thirteenth, nineteen eighty. Okay, what do you make of Past's response to learning about Candy and Allan's affair? Like he took the blame. He was like, I didn't treat you well enough. I should have given you more time and energy. He gave her flowers. I don't think that's a normal No, I don't. I was thinking the same thing when you said that. Which is why I made his favorite dish today, because I feel like Pat seems like a really sweet man.

59:57 Yeah, that's that's a hard thing to forgive, especially when if it's one thing, if your spouse came to you and said, I need to tell you something. I need to admit what happened, and I feel terrible about it. But he discovered it on his own, And for him to like come to that point where he was willing to forgive her that quickly without talking it over. With her taking the blame for it is yeah, somewhat astonishing, it really is. Yeah, And remember there was another man pretty quickly after that. Yeah, it wasn't just Alan. Yeah. I mean, do you think that she told him about the other man? Probably not. Do you think when Allen first heard about Betty's death that he suspected Candy. I get the feeling that he didn't or they wouldn't.

1:00:38 He doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would jump to that conclusion right away. It seems like he would be a little more just be fuddled, like how could this happen? Like I would think he would assume it was a random type event. But yeah, do you think that he was involved at all? I may be biased just from remembering watching the show about this, but it really doesn't seem that way to me. I don't know, I don't I don't get any sense that he would have been involved. I haven't heard anything that. Do you think it's possible as one of these phone calls that Candy said I did it, it was me. I mean, I suppose that's possible, but I don't know. Again, I just feel like Alan just seems really kind of lost and you know, unsure why how this could have happened.

1:01:22 So it doesn't seem that way to me, But I suppose anything's possible. What do you think of marriage encounter? Seems like there were a lot of these kind of self help and marriage help groups back in the seventies, Like what was the one that we had talked about test that's right. There was one of my favorite cases, Susan and Felix Polk. That was a really interesting one. Yeah, they were heavily involved in that. Yeah. I guess in my mind, I'm I'm fine with whatever. You know, it's going to help for a particular married couple, And it sounds like it was a positive thing before for some excellent next week sounds good. But no, I think anything that helps, you know, more communication and maybe more honesty in a marriage, it can definitely be a good thing for some people.

1:02:06 Something that I didn't mention, which I thought was kind of cute. It wouldn't work today, but like you would call like if once you were a flame, like a graduate from the program, you would call other couples at night and just let the phone ring once, and that just meant like, we're thinking of you, we love you, hope you're doing okay. Well, I don't know. That was kind of cute. Yeah, but I think it really helped the Gore's marriage. Yeah, it seemed like it. Sadly, we don't know if it would have lasted, right. Betty was very into it. Yeah, we already talked about Pat a little bit, But do you think you could be as forgiving as he was. I really don't, to be honest. With you, was Allen's behavior suspicious at all? Like when he called multiple neighbors and he said get into the house by any means necessary, That was slightly suspicious to me.

1:02:54 Not really, I don't think because he knew her routine and he knew that there's no way she wouldn't be home at that time of. Night unless she was mad at him. Yeah, I mean that would be the only possibility there. The thing that seems most suspicious about Alan, honestly, is leaving for a business trip the day his wife is brutally killed. I mean, I can totally see the police would be like that seems like quite a coincidence that you are heading out of town and your wife is killed that day. I don't think there's any way he would have agreed to let or baby bethany you know, sit in her crib the whole day. Yeah. No, I don't think there's anything to that suspicion, But I can just see how it would have been seen as very suspicious. Of One last question for you, do you think that engineers have an advantage on polygraph exams.

1:03:40 No, absolutely not. You don't think so. No, I really don't. I think there's no way to control, like if you're going to get nervous over a question. I think like psychopaths that you think that you would be able to guess. I really don't. I'm just I'm joking when I say that. Yeah, No, I really think there is. The more I read about polygraph exams, the more I think it's just it's just a bad idea to take one, whether you're guilty or not, because all it's measuring is your physiological response to a question. And if you ask me, did you kill your wife? Even if I didn't, I'm going to get nervous when I hear that question. Yeah, but the machine can still tell the difference. I don't know. I wouldn't. I wouldn't trust it at all.

1:04:22 I am watching a season of the Real Housewives and they actually call in to polygraph people because someone they think someone is lying and it's crazy but enjoyable. Well, please come back and listen to episode three. I hope you guys are enjoying this series. I know that a lot of people know this story, but hopefully you're enjoying our take on it. So this case takes place in Texas. Obviously, Texas is a It seems like a different country to me in a lot of ways. Yes, it's so big, but how big is Texas really?

1:05:04 Well, I know it's not as big as Alaska, but I know it's pretty darn big. At two hundred and sixty eight thousand, five hundred and ninety six square miles, Texas is the second largest state in the US, behind only Alaska. To put that into perspective, it's larger than France. Why is the size of Germany? You could fit Michigan, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee inside Texas with room leftover. In fact, if Texas was its own country, it would rank as the thirty ninth largest country in the world by land area. And driving distances across the state are shocking too. From El Paso, on the western edge of Texas, to Orange on the Louisiana border, it takes about twelve and a half hours, roughly the same amount of time it would take us to drive to New York City. It's also about the same distance as driving from Paris to Berlin.

1:05:59 I was thinking about that with Texas, like if you lived in the middle of Texas or in the southern part of Texas, going on a road trip like you wouldn't You just wouldn't do it because you're not going to be able to get anywhere outside of Texas unless you're on like a just a super long road trip. Yeah. I feel like Michigan is a really good sized steak. If you have friends or relatives, you can get there in a day. I mean you can in Texas too. But we can get to multiple other states within like an hour or two hours, you know, or even in other country. If you're in the middle of Texas. Yeah, a lot of people who live in Texas never leave Texas because you know, it's so vast. One of my favorite facts involves the tiny Panhandle town of text Line. It's so far northwest that residents are actually closer to the state capitals of Colorado, New Mexico, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Wyoming than they are to their own state capital in Austin. Texas isn't just big geographically, it's big economically too. If it were an independent country, its economy would rank among the largest in the world world, ahead of countries like Canada, Italy, and Russia.

1:07:03 Now, I know that I always hear about California having a really big economy. Do you know how California's economy ranks to. Texas Texas today? I know, but I'm just curious whether Texas has like the biggest economy in the country if it was taken on its own, I think California is probably. Well, I know the lot we hear about Los Angeles, like Los Angeless County, you know, as big as some states too. Yeah, I'm not really sure. You can google that later and let us know. Well, I'm in patients, so I googled it now, and Texas and California are indeed the two largest economies in the United States. But California is quite a bit bigger. It's like a four trillion dollar economy, where Texas is like two point nine trillion. Well, much of West Texas remains remarkably empty, with long stretches of highway where you can drive for miles and miles without seeing another town. Texas is also home to more than thirty million people, but around eighty percent of Texans live in the eastern half of the state. So I guess what you're like. California is just more densely populated than Texas's. Texas has two hundred and fifty four counties, more than any other state. Georgia comes in second with one hundred and fifty nine. And because it's Texas, some highways have the highest posted speed limit in America. Do you know what it is?

1:08:16 Ah? I don't know what is it? Yes? Eighty eighty eighty five. Okay. Finally, Texas has some of the best town names in the country. Among them are Big Tussle, Ding Dong, Cut and Shoot, Bigfoot, Dime Box, Uncertain, Gun, Barrel City, and Bacon. Those names have a lot of character. But when Alaska overheard me talking about how big Texas is, it said, hold my beer, Retina, it's two and a half times bigger than Texas. But will save how big is Alaska segment for another day. I was reminded by a song by I think Michelle Shocked called Anchorage and that's there's a line in the song that you know you're in the biggest state in the Union when you're anchored down in Anchorage. Because she was talking about Texas and.

1:09:01 So well, I think I might be doing a case in Alaska. I was googling, you know, the things about Texas. A lot of things were like, what have you heard this about Alaska? Because Alaska is an interest A lot of interesting people and things happen in Alaska. And I don't think we've ever done a case. I don't think we have either, So I'm pretty sure that I am going to start working on one night. We need to go. We need to do an inventory of the states that we've done cases in, because I'm sure there are others. That was an idea that I had recently. In next year, I said, let's do fifty and fifty cases for fifty states. I think we've covered a lot. Okay, I think there's a lot of states that we haven't probably too. Yeah, Well, we have a lot of good listener friends in Texas, and I have never been there, so maybe we should go to Texas. Can you believe I've never been to Texas?

1:09:49 That is surprising. Yeah, you've been a lot, right. I've been, Probably I've been. Yeah. I love Austin. I've been to Dallas a few times. I used to work for company EDS was headquartered in Plano. They have probably been there ten times or maybe even more. Yeah, Well, I'll get there eventually. Well, Thank you all for listening. If you'd like to hear part three of this case right now, please join us on Patreon at patreon dot com slash Love Marykill. We just have one tier five dollars a month, and for that you get early ad free access, Plus you get a monthly bonus episode. And I think we have a lot of episodes over there. On now we've been doing a monthly bonus episode. Six or post to forty. Yeah, please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media or on our web page Lovemarykill dot com. We'd love to hear it comments, So if you want to comment on this episode on Spotify or on our web page, we appreciate it. What am I forgetting?

1:10:48 You can send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next time. Don't kill your us, don't kill your wife. Atta back To the