Betty and Dan Broderick - Part 1 of 3

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've learned and over twenty years of marriage, it's. That some days you'll feel like killing your wife. And some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, how are you? I'm doing great? How are you? I'm all right. It's feeling like a Monday. It is a Monday, Happy Monday. We're recording this a week before it's going to be released, so if you're listening, we hope that you are having a Friday ish Monday, but having a mondayish Monday.

0:45 Where I think we're both having on mondayish Monday. Yeah, what's going wrong for you? Or you're just because I'm having a not great day exactly. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm having a sympathy Monday. Well I appreciate that because you are. You are an excellent partner. You are not at all like Dan Broderick. No, it's a compliment. I'm glad to hear that. I've wanted to tell this case since we started the podcast. This was one I almost told the story first, but I've had to wait three years to tell you the story. And I am looking forward to telling you the story. I'm pretty sure it's going to be three parts. So it's been you know, a lot of work, but it's a really interesting story. It's a true crime classic. But before we get into the case, do you want to talk about our new baby.

1:29 I didn't know we had a new. Well it's not really a baby, but we have a new version of our podcast. We posted about it on social media and everyone was so he went in another baby. I think I'm good. But we just. Briefly wanted to talk about why we are starting Love Mary Kill Just the Facts. Do you want to talk about that for a minute. Yeah. So there is a vigorous online debate about true crime podcasts and whether people like banter or they don't like and people feel very strongly on both sides, and we can totally understand I think both sides as well. We have always done banter at the beginning banter at the end to try to keep it a little bit lighter, but there are people that just don't like that, and so we decided to launch a new version of the podcast that is just the Facts. We're basically taking out the front and the back end.

2:20 Apologies to our Patreon members, because we did talk about the center Pachreon member that they're getting, you know, this repeated content. But if I'm listening to a podcast, most of the times I prefer not to hear a lot of banter, either case File is one of my favorites, or Dateline and you know, so sometimes it's it's nice just to hear the facts. You're right, So thank you to everyone who commented on social media that they love what we're doing and you enjoy our banter enter snacks. It is really funny to me. First, I think it made me really sad, but whenever we got a negative review, people would always say, and no one cares about your snack. So we can laugh about that now because it's okay.

3:00 We like what we're doing, but we just want to try to reach more people. Yeah, some people do care about our snacks. And if you do, stick with us on Love Mary Kill Classic, and if you don't, then go to Love Mary Kill. Just the facts. We won't be offended either way. And on Cue, our lawnmower showed up. So it's not the neighbors this time, it's the person that mos our lot. Yeah, but the good news is it's almost the end of lawnmower's season. Things are cooling off here a little. Bit with good news depending on your perspective. I don't mind summer very much, but. I hate summer. I know you do. I don't hate it, but I'm this summer has been dreadful. It has been really I don't think it's just for us. Actually, if anything, I think we're cooler than the rest of the United States. I think it's been brutal for a lot of people. I saw a little graphic about like the Great Lake states like Illinois and Michigan and Ohio have been actually the only states in the country that haven't had one hundred degree temperatures.

3:57 Oh wow, so we've. Definitely had like feel like one hundred degrees. But yeah, yeah, Well, I am looking forward to fall as well. I just I love fall. I just don't like what it poortends. I don't like winter, and when you get to fall, then it's like, oh, I. Like all the seasons to a certain extent, but this summer has been particularly grilling. But I brought you a snack, okay, And I know I've been a little bit of a hoof kick. This snack isn't I think you're gonna like it. It's not so help I saw a measuring cup in the kitchen filled with film what looked like melted chocolate. Yeah, did you just drink it? No, didn't touch it. I saw this on Instagram the other day. I made you homemade TwixT bites. Ooh, that sounds really good. You take many Nello wafers, which I didn't even know existed, and you take a rollo. You put the roller on top of one mill minillo wafer, put it in the oven for a few minutes, let it get melty, put another one on top, and then you dip them in chocolate.

4:51 Oh man, that sounds really good. I think you're gonna like them all right, right back. What did you think of the homemade TwixT bites? Ten out of ten? No notes, they're really good. It's good. I saw the recipe, and I know how you feel about Nola wafers that I thought you would probably like them. The problem is they're really they're not tiny, but they're small, so you could easily pop twenty five in your mouth before you know what's happened that Actually, are you familiar with Betty Brodrick. I know the name but I am not familiar with the story. There have been a lot of movies about her, and a lot of books have been written about her, and I've read three of them. She is a fascinating woman.

5:34 I would put her up there with like Diane downs Do you remember Diane Downs. Yeah, similar to Diane Downes. Just there's a lot going on upstairs. Okay. I do want to give a content warning. This episode contains harsh language and discussion of suicide, so please listen with care. I believe multiple people have recommended this episode, but like I said, it's been on our to do list since the very beginning. I think more people have recommended this, but on our case suggestion spreadsheet I have Jess and Jane, so thank you for recommending this case. The streets of San Diego were silent and the early hours of November fifth, nineteen eighty nine, the city still wrapped up in darkness. A thin marine layer clung to the air, muting the glow of the street lights. As Betty Broderick drove her aging green Chevrolet Suburban with her familiar Vanity plate load them up through the winding streets in the quiet neighborhood of Marston Hills. Betty caught a glimpse of her reflection and the rear view mirror as she turned onto Dan's street. The woman staring back at her was barely recognizable. Her once smooth face was now bloated and lined, her hair brassy and brittle. She wasn't sure what's stung more her deteriorated appearance or the fact that her family husband, un wealthy La Joya friends had abandoned her entirely when the divorce turned ugly. It was just past six am and most of the city was still asleep. Betty wasn't. She had been away for hours, her mind spiraling over a fresh set of legal documents that she received in the mail. She'd thought everything was settled after the treacherous six year long legal marathon Dan

7:07 had put her through. She couldn't take another second of this torture. It needed to end. Long ago, she'd predicted it was going to be either him or her. They both couldn't survive, and now she was going to make sure of it. The house set at the end of a tree lined street, a stately, two story brick colonial with green shutters and stark white pillars, and the kind of manicure lawn that graces the pages of real estate brochures. Tacky little house, Betty thought to herself. Just months earlier, Dan and Linda, her replacement, the younger, fresher version, had stood in that very yard, beaming for the society pages as if they were royalty. Betty pulled to a stop nearby, cutting her headlights as she coasted into the curb. The neighborhood slumbered peacefully. As Betty climbed out of her suburban.

7:53 She peeked inside her purse designer, of course, to verify that her gone, A thirty eight caliber revolver that she she'd purchased months earlier, was still there. She had swiped the key to Dan's obscenity of a house from her daughter Kim's room. Betty slipped the cool metal key into her pocket. It was so quiet Betty could hear her heart beating as she walked up the path, the sound of her footsteps falling against the concrete. The key slid easily into the lock. What kind of idiot buy is the most ostentatious house on the block and doesn't have a security system. Thank goodness, Dan hates dogs, Betty thought to herself as she stepped inside. Betty knew the layout from previous break ins. She moved silently, deliberately through the house as the first pinks of daybreak began to peek through the windows. Her hand gripped her purse as she ascended the stairs. When Betty reached the master bedroom doorway, she watched Dan and Linda as they lay sleeping in their bed, the digital clock on their nightstand glowing in a muted light, she could make out the two figures beneath the covers. Unaware that their carefully constructed new life was about to end. She raised the revolver, her hand surprisingly steady, decide, and squeezed the trigger, quickly releasing five bullets from the chamber. What happened in the seconds that followed would leave two people dad, spark a media firestorm, and transformed Betty Broderick into one of the most notorious and fascinating figures in American true crime. Her appearance on OPRAH became the show's second highest rated episode ever. Two movies of the Week would be made about her. They didn't come close to capturing her essence, because while plenty

9:26 of women have been scorn, there has only ever been one Betty Broderick, and she was never going to slip quietly into the night. Here is her story. Marita Cutler and Frank Piskeglia married just before he was sent overseas to fight in World War Two. Both came from Catholic families, Marita from a devout Irish household in the Bronx and Frank from an Italian family. He was bilingual, speaking both English and Italian. Marita's father, Michael Cutler, served as a detective with the New York Police Department, while her mother worked as a school tea creature. The couple had two daughters, Marita and Catherine. Education was important to the Biskeglias. Both Marita and Catherine went on to graduate from college with degrees in education. After marrying her husband, Frank, Marita stayed with her parents and sisters in the Bronx in their apartment building called Hope Place while he was away at war.

10:19 It was during this time that she gave birth to their first child, Marita Jane. When Frank finally returned home, the couple moved into an apartment just across the hall from her parents. Soon after, their son, Frank Junior, was born, and on November seventh, nineteen forty seventh, they welcomed their third child, Elizabeth Ann, better known as Betty. Kind of unusual for a child to be named after their mother. You don't hear that very often. Yeah, I think that obviously was a family name. I wonder how that made Betty feel, though, because both kids, both the other kids were named after their parents and Betty, I. Think everything made Betty angry. Yeah. With their quickly expanding family, the Biskeglias moved to the suburbs of New York, settling an east Chester, where Marita soon gave birth to their final two children, Claire and Gerard.

11:05 Frank worked alongside his brothers and their family business as plasterers. Catherine, Marita's sister or aunt Kay as they called her, moved just a few houses down and had four children of her own. The cousins were best of friends, spending lots of time together. Marita, who had depended on public transportation while living in the city, refused to learn how to drive after moving to the suburbs, something that left her feeling restless and often bored. Betty referred to her as the original desperate housewife. Moody and frustrated, often taking it out on her kids. Betty remembered her childhood as mostly happy, but she said she always had to tread carefully around Marita. She never knew which version of her mother she was going to get, but the best day of the week was Sunday, when the large, noisy family got together for a big Italian feast. Betty later reflected on her mother and credit her with raising her and her sister well and teaching them social grace and always making sure that they had the very best of everything, even when money was tight. Betty was raised in a strict Catholic home.

12:07 The children all attended parochial school from kindergarten to high school and even college. Betty was a good girl and wanted to please her parents and the nun, leading a somewhat sheltered life. When her youngest sibling was born, Betty was ten, She doated on the baby and impressed everyone with how good she was with him, though she was still a child herself. At just twelve years old, Betty began babysitting. She was soon in high demand around the neighborhood, eventually becoming the regular sitter for the Think family every day. After school. From three to seven, Betty helped Missus Fink with her three boisterous young children. She worked for the family through her college years. Betty loved working for the Happy family and said that she modeled her own family after them. At five eleven, blond and beautiful, Betty became a part time model in addition to her nannying, and also took on another job as a hostess at a restaurant, all while maintaining good grades in high school. Betty threw herself into work, determined to avoid being at home whenever possible due to the strained relationship she had with her mother.

13:09 So Betty was a really busy young woman. She's working three jobs and going to school, and she was dating too. Yeah, that's a lot to take on. Later in Betty's life, when things became bad, she said this about her parents. I love my dad and my mom. They're both good people, but they've led such nice, peaceful lives that they simply can't face anything unpleasant, And so they don't face it. They go to Paris instead and sing tra la la la la, and just pretend nothing's happening. Betty was a hard worker, and before long she had saved enough money to buy her first car, a green convertible. MG. She couldn't have been prouder. So again, Betty's in high school and she bought a new car by herself.

13:49 That sounds nice. Yeah, it's adorable. I had to google a picture of it, but it's a really cute car. Betty attended college at Mount Saint Vincent's on the banks of the Hudson River. She had acquired an enviable wardrobe and a taste for the finer things from her modeling days, owning shoes from Gucci, Urmez, scarves and pearls from Tiffany's. She made a lot of new friends in college and continued to be a good girl with perfect grades. Daniel Thomas Broderick the third was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in November nineteen forty four, the eldest of nine children, five boys, four girls in a devout Irish Catholic family. His mother, Yolanda, was pregnant with him when his father, Dan Senior went overseas to fight in the war. When he returned, Dan joined his family's successful lumber business. He was a heavy drinker with a volatile temper, abusive toward both his wife and children, and the household was often ruled by fear of him. The Brodericks were well off, but the children were all taught the importance of frugality, self sufficiency, and education. All nine children attended college. Nothing was ever handed to them. Being the oldest and his father's namesake, the pressure to succeed was greatest on Dan, and he didn't disappoin his parents. They were very proud of him. He was a hard worker, a natural leader, and clear minded. Dan willed himself to be successful. He and his four brothers were all expected to attend Notre Dame like their father before them.

15:13 Nine kids and they all went to college. That is pretty amazing. I'm guessing they all made they work their own way through college, paid their own way. Probably the only one that I can speak for is Dan, and he certainly did. Used to be a little bit cheaper back then, but still that's pretty impressive. Betty and Dan met in November nineteen sixty five, days before her eighteenth birthday. They met at a party in South Bend, Indiana after a Notre Dame USC football game. Years later, attending the annual Notre Dame USC game became a beloved tradition for them. Once after their separation, Dan, feeling nostalgic and more than a little drunk, called Betty from the stadium. He told her how much he had once loved her, even as he attended the game with another woman. It devastated Betty. The trip to No Notre Dame in nineteen sixty five was the first time Betty's parents had allowed her to go away for the weekend with friends, and only because her friend's brother was a student there and had agreed to chaperone the freshman girls. While sitting at a table with friends during a party, Dan approached Betty and asked if she had a pen. She handed him her silver Tiffany pen and watched as he scrawled his name on the stark, white linen tablecloth. Daniel T. Broderick the third MD, with an A in parentheses after When Betty asked what the A was for, he responded coyly almost he explained that he had applied to both law school and medical school and had decided on attending Cornell Medical School. The next fall, Betty returned home to New York, never expecting to hear from Dan Broderick again. Unbeknownst to her. That first night,

16:46 he told friends that he was going to marry Betty. Did you say that when you met me? Uh No, not right away. It wasn't long, did well, it wasn't long after we met. I did tell people that I thought I could see myself spending the rest of my life with you, but it was probably a couple weeks in. Wow, it's a little type and rich, I told everyone. I'm sure you did. While Dan slipped from Betty's mind, he couldn't stop thinking about her, sending her flowers and a telegram that he was coming to New York for the Notre Dame Navy game and wanted to see her again. Dan checked a few boxes on Betty's list. He didn't smoke or drink excessively, he was Catholic, didn't believe in divorce, and he had the ambition she was looking for in a partner. But Betty preferred the men she dated to be tall and athletic, and unfortunately for Dan, he was neither of those things. She only dated men she saw as potential husbands, and in that regard, Dan fell short.

17:45 Literally he was an inch shorter than her and wore tortoise shell glasses, geek city, Betty described him. When Dan arrived in New York for medical school in September nineteen sixty six, Betty tried to pawn him off to her friends, but he only had eyes for her. Because he was new in town. Betty took him around and introduced him to people in places. Soon she found herself charmed by Dan Broderick. He was adventurous and fun. He made her laugh, but there were red flags early on. Dan was controlling, insisted on being in charge and having things go exactly his way. Betty, like most women raised in the nineteen sixties, was taught to be polite and submissive to men, so she kept calm and carried on.

18:28 I'm so glad that I was not raised in the sixties. Yeah, we'll be back after a break. Jan wanted to date Betty exclusively, get engaged and Mary soon after, but Betty was adamant she wanted to finish college before settling down. She continued to date a roster of men, which is likely what made her more intriguing to Dan. Betty described Dan to the La Times quote he was very ambitious, very intelligent, and very funny, and I am those three things. We were from the same kind of background. We both wanted the same things in the future, wealth, social standing, and a large family. All I wanted was to be a mommy. He promised me the moon. The guy asked me to marry him every day for three years. Betty finished college in just three years, earning a double major in nursing and early childhood education with a minor in English. After completing a semester of student teaching, Betty landed a job in January nineteen seventy teaching third grade in east Chester, New York. It was a perfect fit. She'd grown up in the area, knew many of the families at the school, and her aunt Kay even taught there. Plus it was one of the best paying school districts in the area, which was a nice bonus. She finally recalled this as a very happy time in her life. Soon after, Dan proposed with a custom engagement ring. This time Betty said yes. Her mother planned an elaborate wedding to Betty's dismay, deciding every detail

20:01 without consulting her daughter. When Dan refused to wear the morning coat that Marita had chosen for him to wear, opting instead for a pin strite suit and Paisley tie. It caused a rift between the two that would never be repaired or forgotten. Oh that seems like not a great cause for a lifelong rift. You know, you don't think so. Wow, Well you are not a woman, so you wouldn't understand. But well, it was sad because Betty in her book described this situation and she was really mad that her mom planned everything and really didn't ask her opinion. It was really frustrating for Betty because you know, she had dreamed of planning her own wedding.

20:42 Yeah. I think her mom was kind of a society person and she wanted things her way to impress her friends. Okay. They were married in April nineteen sixty nine, the year of Woodstock, But Betty and Dan were not hippies or feminists. They were both polished and traditional, with their sights set up a picture perfect, upwardly mobile life. Since she was a young girl, Betty had imagined her future as at a voted housewife, building a family and home with the man she loved, But the reality of her marriage to Dan quickly shattered those dreams. With Dan still in medical school, the financial burden of rent and bills fell squarely on her shoulders. Almost immediately, Betty began to regret her decision.

21:22 She later claimed that Dan did too, admitting to a friend that he had second thoughts about the marriage almost as soon as it happened. These cracks grew more visible during their honeymoon in Saint Thomas, where Betty got her first shoe glimpse of Dan's drinking. Their wedding night was nothing like she had hoped. Her first sexual experience was hurried and crude, with Dan falling asleep on top of her without even bothering to undress. Betty would later allege that he'd even canceled the hotel's housekeeping service, insisting that she cleaned the room herself an actively maid. Oh that's not cool. When they returned from their honeymoon, there were no units available and married housing at Cornell, so Betty moved into Dan's tiny dorm room. Despite Betty being the breadwinner, Dan took over their finances. In her book Telling On Myself, Betty wrote about getting married at a young age, quote, I went from very strict protective parents directly into the arms of a very strict, controlling husband without one single day on my own, where I could have made my own choices and tried to live my own life. I never thought about what I was missing then, because you can't miss what you've never had, Or at least that's what I used to believe. He was always afraid I would leave him, and I wish that I could have left him. I wanted to. I wanted to annul the whole thing right away, but I knew that could never happen in my family. I couldn't leave him, and I couldn't go home. Besides to Catholics marriages forever, Dan knew he had me where he wanted me, trapped.

22:49 That does not sound like a good way to start out married. Like exactly like from the beginning, I think they were somewhat doomed. Yeah, it's too bad. Shortly after their honeymoon, when robust b Betty found herself with persistent bleeding, nausea, and heartburn, she was shocked to learn that she was pregnant. She blamed her Catholic school education for not knowing about birth control, assuming that Dan, who was studying to be a doctor, would know how to prevent such an occurrence. Until they were ready to start a family, ideally after Dan had graduated and they had more than one income to support their family. Betty was still teaching when Kim was born on January twentieth, nineteen seventy. She worked her whole pregnancy. Betty had very hard pregnancies. She fled throughout her pregnancy, and she had a lot of sickness. She worked like the entire pregnancy.

23:38 That's rough. On the night that Kim was born, the Broaderies were hosting a party at their house. Betty, feeling labor coming on, prepared food and entertained the guests while waiting for her husband to turn up. But Dan didn't show up until nearly midnight, drunk with a woman on his arm. Boy. By this time, Betty's labor pains were intense. After they arrived at the hospital and a taxi, Dan promptly fell asleep in the waiting room. Luckily for Betty, it was a quick and easy delivery. When the doctor wrote Dan to tell him the good news, the two of them went to a bar to celebrate. Oh good Lord, she wish. That you lived in the nineteen sixties. It was a man's world. I don't I mean, it's still a man's world.

24:19 But it is comical. I know it's sad, but I think of like the show mad Men, and I just remembered the one scene when I think it was Pete his wife had a baby, and he's like in a meeting and they're like, oh, your wife had a girl, and he was like, okay, great, and then they go back to the meeting. It's like, oh, man, just a different world. Like it's hard to believe that dads weren't allowed in the I don't know if they were, they weren't allowed, or they just didn't do it happen. Yeah. Well, Dan pursued his education. Betty left her teaching job and took on babysitting so she could remain at home with Kim. After completing medical school, Dan changed course, deciding he'd rather practice law than medicine, and enrolled at Harvard Law School. Betty had a feeling that Dan's desire to can continue his education had something to do with his desire to avoid the draft. When a draft notice eventually materialized, he conspired with medical friends to write him letters of deferment due to his non existent bleeding ulcers. I am not sure if that story was true or not. I found most of the things that Betty said to be true.

25:19 M m, but that was Betty's accounts, okay. While Dan was in his first year of law school, Betty was miserable in their cold, sparsely finished basement apartment. When she found out she was pregnant again. She longed to return to teaching, but with no one to care for baby Kim, it wasn't possible. And then, to make matters worse, her beloved little MG the car that she had worked so hard to buy, was stolen. To save money, Dan had canceled their auto insurance and they couldn't afford a new car. Their financial situation was dire, but Dan insisted on wearing expensive suits and bow ties to class, determined to make the best impression on fellow students and faculty. Throughout the remainder of Dan's life, fast was always very important to him. He dressed well, but he also dressed a little quirky.

26:06 Did he always wear a bow tie? Think he frequently wore a bow tie. I've never met a guy who wears a bowtie regularly that I liked. Wow, What about or Redenbacker? I never met him Bill Nye again, never met him. Maybe I would like him, but Betty had to take the bus everywhere, even to do laundry, lugging soiled diapers on the bus through winter snow. One night, Dan agreed to stay with ten month old Kim while she went to the laundromat. Betty returned home to Dan yelling and slapping the baby. Furious, Betty packed, told Dan she was divorcing him, and left with Kim to stay with her parents. When she arrived, her mother, with whom Betty had never had a good relationship, told her she could stay one night.

26:49 She had made her bed with Dan and she needed to return to her marriage. There was no lifeboat. In July nineteen seventy two, their second daughter, Lee was born. In some places, I heard her referred to as Kathy Lee, but Betty called her Lee, and I believe that's what she has gone by most of her life. But her official name, I think is Kathy Lee. Gotcha. Kim had been an easy baby, but Lee was challenging with constant colic. Betty said that Lee was most like her. Betty was soon pregnant again with her third child. She considered getting an abortion because she was exhausted caring for two children. Dan was never home and refused to help with the children. When he was, he convinced Betty that he would change and pleaded with her to keep the baby. When she went into labor prematurely at seven months, during a snowstorm, Dan was away skiing with friends. Betty was forced to leave the girls with a neighbor and call the police for a ride to the hospital. Sadly, after four days, the baby died. Betty became deeply depressed, and Dan was cold and unemotional. Only twenty three, she attempted to take her life by swallowing every pill she could find in their small apartment. She was surprised when she awoke the next month. Warning Dan promised her life would soon be better, but it wasn't all difficult. Both knew their struggles would ease once Dan graduated. At night, they would lie in bed, imagining the house they would buy and the trips they would take. They were both always looking for ways to enrich themselves. Betty enrolled in a French cooking class, while Dan took flying lessons. In

28:21 nineteen seventy four, Dan twenty six, graduated from Harvard Law School with an MD and his new law degree. He could write his own ticket. As a medical malpractice attorney. He got a job at a large, prestigious San Diego law firm, Gray Carrie, Aimes and Fry, making about thirty thousand dollars a year or one hundred and eighty thousand in today's dollars. There is a lot of money in this case. And sometimes I give you the amount adjusted for inflation, but most of the events took place in the mid nineteen eighties. And if I don't give you the adjusted for inflation amount, just multiply at times three. Okay, But this was his new job. His new job was in the early seventies or seventies.

29:02 So that's why it's Yeah, it's a lot more than three times. But yeah, Lance Schaeffer, who worked alongside Dan, recalled quote he was a superstar. Dan was the kind of guy who made all the rest of us look like loafers. In his last year at the firm, he built around twenty five hundred hours when eighteen hundred is considered tops, so. That comes out to about ten hours a day, seven days a week. So he was working a lot. Yeah, and that doesn't account for the amount of times that he had to socialize after work, and these are billable hours, so you know, not every hour that you work as billable. So right, Dan was working very hard. Oh, I guess so. Dan was also active in the San Diego Bar Association, eventually serving as president, and he occasionally taught law classes, but those long hours came at a price. His wife and children often felt like an afterthought.

29:50 He never called home. It was against the culture of the law firm. A coworker said, anybody who calls home is a whimp. What do you think about that? I mean things times have changed a lot, and I don't think that would fly. Anyone who calls home is a good husband and father exactly. Betty tried to keep it in perspective, reminding herself that Dan was building a career and reputation that one day would pay off, giving him more time for family. So it was all an investment in their future. Yeah, it's such a that's kind of a deluded way of thinking, though, you know, it's it's just gonna be for a while and everything's going to be better. Although he was making good money, more than half of his paycheck went towards paying down his student debt. Money was tight, and Dan was resentful for any money that went toward household expenses. Decades before most American families carried credit card debt, Dan and Betty leveraged their credit, putting most of their expenses on credit and borrowing from one to pay another, a practice that Dan continued even when he had great wealth.

30:51 Betty returned to teaching after the move to California. On weekends, she worked at a jewelry store and as a hostess at a restaurant. When Betty found out she was pregnant shortly after the move, she had an abortion. A few months later, she was pregnant once again, but it ended in a miscarriage. Dan opposed the use of birth control. He claimed he didn't believe in God, which made his refusal to let Betty use it all the more puzzling to her. She saw it as another means of control. In the early years of their marriage, the Brodericks rarely stayed in one place for long, moving nearly every six months. Their first house was lost in a devastating fire that destroyed all of their belongings, but an insurance settlement made it possible for them to start over. By the time their third child, Daniel, Ty Broderick. The fourth dan Forth, also known as Danny, was born in nineteen seventy six.

31:42 They were ready to put down permanent brutes. I really love the name dan Forth. That's really cute, roll off the tongue. That year, they purchased a five bedroom home on Coral reef Avenue in San Diego for one hundred and thirty thousand dollars, modest by La Joya standards and without this weeping ocean views that the area was known for. The house nevertheless became the heart of their family life, place they would cherish for the next decade. In the nineteen seventies, La Joya was a picture perfect slice of the southern California coast, rugged cliffs spilling into churquoise coves, palm lined streets leading to elegant boutiques and art galleries, and a community where a country club, luncheons, and charity galas filled the social calendar. It was an affluent enclave, insulated from the turbulence of the outside world, where manicured lawns and ocean view homes signaled both success and exclusivity. Dan and Betty Broderick entered into this sun so carefully curated world with big dreams, ready to carve out their place among La Joya's elite. Did you have a grandmother lived in San Diego?

32:48 I didn't. Yeah, And you visit it? Oh? Yeah? And what was your impression of San Diego? I loved it. It was such a beautiful area. The weather is always perfect and it's great. Anywhere along the California coast is a beautiful place too, for sure. Well, the way Betty described it, it sounds very Stepford wives to me. No one ever talked about affairs, alcoholism, or God forbid the D word. Do you know what the D word is? Oh? Divorce? Yeah, okay. I was thinking. I was going through my head only what could that be? Divorce? Okay. Dan still kept tight control of the money. Seven years into their marriage, Betty bought her first washer and dryer with money she earned herself. That's really surprising to me.

33:29 That is. In nineteen seventy eight, Betty was pregnant again. In the intervening years, she had another abortion and miscarried. She decided to make this her final pregnancy. It all been difficult, with extreme nausea throughout. She'd been pregnant nine times and ten years when Rhett was born, she had a tubal ligation. Betty, now thirty two, thought the decision was one of the best of her life is it gave her agency over her life for the first time in a long time. So how many kids did they have? Have? Total? Ones? They had four Kim Lee, Danny and Wrex. Gotcha to our extra money. Betty became the neighborhood babysitter, a role that came naturally after her years of nanny ying. Children adored her, and she was the fun mom who always had room for one more at the kitchen table or in the backyard. While some of La Hooya's socialite mothers were known for their designer dresses and perfectly styled hair, Betty was more likely to be found in a comfortable sweatsuit, playing sports with her kids in the yard, singing silly songs with them, or inventing games for them to play.

34:32 Her friend Candy Westbrook said quote, I remember going over there and try to take her shopping or to a movie or something, and there would be Betty standing in her kitchen saying, whoops, no, not today, We're doing cookies or biscuits or fudge. She always had a half dozen kids around her, splashing dough everywhere. The place was a mess, but she loved it. Kids were her whole life. She was a complete mother Earth type. Once I went over and she was dressed like Miss Piggy. Betty would do any thing to make a little kid laugh. Family meant everything to Betty, and it painted her deeply that her husband had little interest in spending time at home with her and the children. Betty is a very funny lady. She made me laugh out loud several times during her book.

35:15 She's kind of a mean girl, but also just witty, self deprecating. But when she was telling her story, when she got to about this point in her book, she wrote, quote, hold your horses. I know you're probably getting bored with all these little details. Do you want me to hurry up and get to the good parts? The parts you see in the movies about my life, the once the District Attorney helped make. But stay with me, be patient, because all of the little threads and stories are essential to the tapestry of my life, of who I am and how our marriage worked. Well. That's a good summary of why we often spend a fair amount of time upfront as well. Can I talk about the backgrounds of the people involved, because. I love having a lot of background. I hate when we can't always get it. After five years at the law firm, in nineteen seventy eight, Dan left the part practison decided to set out on his own. He opened a five hundred thousand dollars line of credit to keep them afloat until he could reel in some big money.

36:09 The Rodericks were already heavily into debt at this time, and suiting Dan's office with top of the line furnishing set them back even further. As his image was very important to him, but his earning potential was enormous. We didn't really talk about this back when Dan was getting his degree, but a double law degree, a medical degree, I mean that's very impressive, and really. I would think, yeah, you could write your own ticket pretty much. Right, I mean, your earning potential is essentially limitless. This was a surprising sweet spot in the Brodericks marriage. Dan respected Betty's opinions on decorating and starting his new law office. They were finally partners in something. Betty said Dan had the prettiest office in town and it was all her vision.

36:55 Dan was smart, respected and admired by his peers and judges. As his reputation grew, defendants and their attorneys would fold in subtle lawsuits rather than face him in court. While Dan was busy growing his law practice, Betty threw herself into life as a suburban mom with PTA meetings, orthodontist appointments, and soccer games. She loved hosting Dan's clients and hosting dinner parties. She also was known for hosting elaborate children's birthday parties. Betty just really loved to throw a party, but she also found time for charity work. She taught Bible study and Sunday school. Betty made friends easily and was always fun to be around. She was a good listener and quick to lend a helping hand. She liked to carry plastic insects in her purse. When at fancy restaurants, she'd place a bug on her plate just to frighten the weight staff. But privately, Betty struggled. She craved intimacy from her partner that he was never able to provide.

37:53 She tried so hard to make Dan proud of her, but he barely noticed her. He was so wrapped up in his upward mobility that he never stopped to think what she might need for him, Not to mention their kids. Yeah, when Rhett was for Betty got her real estate license. She wanted to enter the workforce and become successful in her own right, but Dan didn't want her to, so she didn't. I wanted Betty to be a fascinating woman when I read her book, If anything, I think that she downplayed how dynamic she was, Like, you know, you've already learned, like she could do all these things at the same time, and when the marriage was going well, she did them seamlessly. A lot of people were in awe of her, And I think that she could have been very successful in her own career, yes, had she chosen that path.

38:41 Yeah, it seems like she had a lot of talents and was a hard worker. And yeah, definitely like people liked her. Yeah. Lawsuits can take years to go to trial or settle, and sometimes just as long to get payment. But a few years into his private practice the money started rolling in. Dan had set the goal of making one million dollars a year, and in nineteen eighty three he made that goal and then surpassed it. Betty said quote. We used to go to la Vencia for dinner to celebrate when he won a one million dollar settlement. But finally we were there three times in one week, so we decided that it wasn't worth making a big deal over that maybe we should move it up to ten million dollars. It doesn't mean that he was getting you know, he.

39:22 Got right the settlement. That still he was a lot of funny. We'll be back after a break. Dan had always been tight with money, but as the big settlement started rolling in, his grip began to loosen. The housekeeper's hours expanded to five days a week, and ou Per was hired, along with a gardener and a poolman. The family began traveling more, jetting off on European vacations and ski trips. Betty, now more fashion conscious, invested freely in her wardrobe. Her new favorite hobby was revenge shopping. Every time Dan made her mad, which was often, she would go shopping. Once, on a trip to New York, when she became particularly enraged, she bought a pink and lavender sequined Bob Mackie gown for seven thousand dollars.

40:13 Seven thousand dollars time, remember multi. Yeah, that's a nice gown. A gown. She was just as generous with the children, enrolling them in every imaginable sport and class, and spoiling not just them but their friends as well. Almost overnight, their lifestyle transformed. Dinners out, a grand piano, a sparkling new swimming pool, a huge backyard trampoline, designer clothing, club memberships, all now within reach. For Father's Day, Betty even surprised Dan with a speedboat so they could water ski together. But with the wealth came a different kind of poverty. Dan was more successful than ever, yet increasingly absent from the lives of his wife and children. While many of the Lahoya mothers poured their energy into social obligations, charity work, and glamorous fundraising balls, Betty carved out a different identity. She was the fun mom, the one all the neighborhood kids wanted to be around. Her house was always full of activity, and she thrived in the chaos. Girl Scouts, boy Scouts, coaching, soccer Load him up, as her license plate read, she was there for all of it. It was the life she had dreamt of since she'd been a nanny in her youth.

41:23 It was really devastating though, because as active as Betty was in her kid's life at this point, Dan really was not there. Oh yeah, I can't imagine he had any time for the kids, given his the work that he was doing in the We're. Going to talk about it a little more in a minute. But he was a one man show. Oh wow. He didn't have anyone else working in his office with him. He did it all on his own. Dan Broderick had always been attractive in a boyish, slightly nerdy way, but his newfound wealth, along with a sharper haircut, contact lenses, and a no's job, transformed him into a handsome man. Dan's confidence had never been in short supply, but success gave him a new swagger that many women found irresistible. His wife, however, wasn't impressed the charms she once saw and now felt like an act. Everything was for appearances. Betty began cheekily calling Dan count, Do money count?

42:15 Do money count? Your money got it. With their new wealth, they began looking at larger homes along the San Diego coast line, but Dan hedged, and Betty had a feeling she knew why. So at this point, Dan is making We're not really sure, but probably between two and three million dollars. And they had redone their home, like everything was redone, like from the you know, the ceilings to the flooring. And I think that Betty, you know, when she got bored, she just wanted to spend more money. So they had been searching for a new, grander home, probably an ocean front property, for at least a year or two. But Dan kept saying, yeah, that one's not quite right, that one's not quite right. And it was just kind of a constant battle with them.

42:58 Okay. Dan's drinking became more of a habit, and after a second humiliating dui, Betty recognized he had a serious problem. Once she knew he'd never truly confront she drew a line, limiting her presence with him at social gatherings and refusing to drive with him. Betty shifted gears to focus on the children, while Dan immersed himself in work. It was a turning point in their marriage, and Betty sensed his grip on her loosening, not because he had changed, but because his attention was shifting. And it wasn't work that was distracting him this time, but another. Woman Jane had stopped giving Betty compliments years ago, not since their early courtship in New York, but it never bothered her. She was confident in her beauty, intelligence, and humor.

43:41 She was Dan's greatest asset. His friends and business associates all adored her, and Dan seemed oblivious to other women. But one night at a party, her ears perked up when she overheard him say, isn't she beautiful? He wasn't talking about Betty, but about a twenty one year old receptionist office building named Linda COULKENA Betty later said quote, I was shocked that this was the girl he thought was so beautiful. She was just another skiddy, little bimbo with a gap between her front teeth. She had all those hair, all poofed up like Bridget Bardow bobby pins, and the whole bit, not a streak of blonde in it. I was, to say the least underwhelmed. She couldn't hold a candle. To me, I was prettier, I was smarter, I was classier. It never occurred to me that Dan would be stupid enough to throw his family away for this office girl. It was just too much of a cliche.

44:35 To believe. Tell us how you really feel, Betty. She really loves to tell people how she feels, especially about Dan and Linda. And spoiler alert, Linda is stunning. Betty was also stunning. But you know, Linda was not like some gap tooth bimbo. She was a beautiful woman in her own right. At first, Betty remained in the dark about the affair, but the whispers around town grew louder, and soon friends began reporting back after seeing Linda and Dan together outside of the office. In the summer of nineteen eighty three, Betty took the children on a five week camping tour to the National Parks of the West. It was a great adventure, but Betty was crestfallen that Dan skipped the trip. Family time together meant everything to her.

45:18 Dan met them for a couple of days, but he was grouchy, cold, and distant. It seemed that his affair with a receptionist in his office building had heated up in her absence, but Betty was not ready for a confrontation yet. Upon her return, Dan informed her that he'd hired a new assistant to help him manage his workload. Betty was thrilled Dan had been a one man show since he'd opened his office, and the workload was enormous. She'd hoped this would mean more time together at home, but when she discovered that the new assistant was Linda Culkina, the woman she'd already suspected of having an affair with Dan, it was the ultimate betrayal. Something inside her broke, never to be fixed. To Betty, it was shocking Dan had become the very cliche he once mocked, approaching forty with a red sports car and a mushy, younger girlfriend.

46:09 So Linda was his receptionist originally, but now he was hiring her to be like more of a assistant, like more. Of a Linda was the receptionist for this big office building. Dan was just one of the offices and that's where she started. So she was hired to be a paralegal. Okay, but basically now she was going to be full time with him. With Dan, just just the two of them. Yeah. Yeah. One afternoon, while Betty and Dan drove to a wedding together, she claims that he told her that he was bored with his life, bored with her. He didn't love her anymore. He told her she was old, fat, ugly, and boring. Without Betty's knowledge, Dan had paid cash for two lots in a new development called Fairbanks Ranch. It seems that Dan had been preparing for his departure from their marriage for quite some time. Later, Betty learned that Dan's previous law firm had written up books for their clients called Steps to be taken when preparing for divorce.

47:04 Step one, don't let the other party know what you were up to, oach. Yeah, I think that's where we're going to stop for part one. Okay, well we'll come back for part two because I'm interested. You don't have a choice and what's going to happen? Oh yeah, that's right. What do you think of Betty brought erick so far? She seems like a somewhat complicated person. Like you said at the beginning, there's a lot going on in her mind. She seems like she has a lot of talents, Like she seems very smart, very capable, seems like she loves kids. So I mean, I think I know what's going to happen. But she seems like a you know, overall good person and wanted to make her marriage work, And seems like Dan was really not not into it.

47:47 Yeah, where Dan and Betty ready for marriage? Doesn't They got married so long? Yeah? How old? He was twenty and no, I'm sorry. He was twenty three and she was twenty. They're three years apart in eg. Yeah, it's pretty young, especially, and you know, if you're if you're going into a marriage and you've basically divorce is not even something that would be an option. You better be really sure, yeah, that you're getting into a marriage that's going to last forever. It's hard. It's hard to know even, you know, no matter what age you are, but I think when you're that young, it's really hard to know. What Also seems like Dan did change a little bit once they were married, Like she saw a few red flags that he was controlling. I don't think she thought he was going to take over the finances. She literally never knew where their money was and how much they had. Yeah, and that was a big problem for her.

48:33 Well, and you said originally too, she liked the fact that he didn't he wasn't a big drinker, And it really turns out that he was a big drinker. Maybe kept that from her in the early days. Well, and for me, I lived like I went to college, but then I lived on my own for a few years before we commingles, and I'm so glad that I got to do that. Yeah, and I know not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to do that. I mean I had like the crappiest little apartment. I mean it actually I actually loved it, but yeah, you know, it wasn't the best, but it was cheap and it was what I sport, and it was mine and I really am grateful that I had that opportunity. Yeah, I think it's great to be able to have that opportunity, and it is sad that she never had that.

49:16 So in nineteen sixty five, the average age of marriage was twenty three point two years old for men and twenty point eight years old for women. So actually, Dan and Betty like right on the dock, kay, right there? Yeah, you know what it is now. I'm just it is. Thirty for men and twenty eight for women. OK. So you know, definitely we've made some progress. I don't know, I shouldn't say progress, but you know, people are definitely getting married older and having children older. Yeah, that were not for everyone. You know, some people get married young and have a great life. Together, but it doesn't always work out that way. What do you think Betty could have done differently when she saw the warning signs? Which warning signs do you mean specifically, because there were quite a few.

49:58 It seems like, well, I guess I mean before where they were married, when she saw that Dan was kind of being was being controlling with her. Oh, well, do. You think but Dan probably just wanted a submissive wife. Yeah, And I mean I think it was so common back then too, that that was just the way it was. Women were supposed to be more submissive. Yeah, but I mean I. Think Betty naturally wasn't a submissive woman, so I think the cards were stacked against her for that anyway. Like if she would have had the perfect husband, maybe it would have worked out. But Dan just wasn't there supporting her in the ways that she might have needed more support. Yeah, it's a tough situation, but I guess, you know, I wish that she had communicated up front that like, this is not going to work for me, right, If this is the way you're going to be, then I'm out, you know.

50:43 But what do you think drew Betty to Dan? Because initially she was like, I like tall athletic men and you're a short geek. Well. The one thing that I find interesting about Betty that seems somewhat contradictory is they sort of seem like they were really into money and social standing, like that was mentioned a few times early on, but at the same time, it seems like she was more like she wanted to be more of a mom and she just wanted to have fun and do activities with the kids, and it seems like the status wasn't as important to her. So it sort of seems like she went with him because of the potential of his thereat and status, but it doesn't seem like that's necessarily what she really wanted to seeking. She wanted to portray herself as someone and even in her book she was like, oh, I never cared about clothes, but you did, because like when she was a model, when she was a teenager, she was really happy that she could buy some Gucci things or whatever. So, yeah, I think she wanted to portray herself as this you know, earthy mom, right, but she was drawn to who isn't drawn to nice things? I love nice things. Yeah, do you think that Dan and Betty were too similar? They had very similar backgrounds.

51:52 I mean, I don't know. Maybe I think I think it's good to be somewhat similar. I think we're fairly similar in a lot of ways. I don't think we were. I think, I so, okay, you're gonna like laugh at me, but in some ways I see myself and Betty because I'm kind of a feisty lady too. I'm never going to kill you in your sleep spoiler alert. But you know, I think we. Had somewhat similar background. I definitely in our early years I fought more with you, and then you just never took you never took the bait, and so I kind of gave. My strategy work. It was a long game. But I mean, I'm still happy to fight, but you don't. I mean, you don't get a big head, but you're a very good partner and not a lot of reasons to fight with you.

52:34 I mean, they say that opposites attract, but I think marriages, I don't know, I'm not an expert, but to me, I would think marriages where the people are more similar have a better chance of working out them. I think you know that their opposites. Yeah, because they both identified being Catholic, even though Dan wasn't very religious. I don't really think Betty was either, but those you know, foundations of being Catholic were just in bred in them. They all also both like to fight. You know, Dan was an attorney, and I think that they like to spar with each other. And I think they were both narcissistic. Okay, and that is that's probably not. A very bad combination, right, Yeah, Okay, One more question, this is this is a hard question. How do you think We already talked about this a little bit, but what's the best way to handle conflict in a marriage?

53:23 I think just tight in your room and close the. Bee, scared of your wife. Just wait for it to pass and then no, I know, I think it's obviously communication is really really. Trying to take any angry or defensive try to listen to your partner. Yes, I think for us, you know, I think that has helped a lot with both of us, but probably me especially like is you know, remaining somewhat calm and not I don't know, not not escalating the anger in the you know, if there's a fight going on or something like that. Yeah, I would say, really really listening when you're having a disagreement, whether it's with your partner or your kids or whoever. Just really try to hear where the other person is coming from. You don't have to agree necessarily, but really try to hear what they're saying, and you know, know what emotional state they're in, what emotion that you know is being evoked in them.

54:18 Yeah, if that makes sense, it does. In nineteen sixty five, about twenty to twenty five percent of marriages eventually ended in divorce. Divorce was less common and more stigmatized. Today, roughly forty to forty five percent of first marriages are estimated to end in divorce, though rates vary by factors such as education, age, and socioeconomic status. How many second marriages do you think end in divorce? So we said forty to forty five percent of marriages and in divorce today. What do you think it is for second marriages. That's a good question. I almost think it might be more just because you get divorced once you find out, well, ye know, they this doesn't work out, I can just try again.

54:59 So hard to go through, especially like the financial Yeah, I guess maybe if you're on your second marriage, you're like, we are not going to commingle our finances. That's probably one of the things that people learn. And you're probably less likely to have kids together in a second marriage. Yeah, I'm just saying less likely. I'm not saying it doesn't. Happen a lot of times though they people will have one more child together. Yeah, what do you think you have to give a guess? Fifty sixty to sixty seven percent, it's a huge amount of people to get divorced to the second marriage, third marriages. I'm gonna it has to go down that. At that point, it came seventy seventy three percent. So yeah, like I just I don't know if i'd even bother.

55:41 Wow, that's really shocking. I'm guessing you don't have the stat for fourth marriages. At some point, it's got to go down. Gosh, I don't. I don't know, But like you know, some people just keep going, yeah, yeah, how many times have you been married? I don't think you've ever told to say for just once. It's just once once is enough and done. That's right, that's right, baby. So before we go, I just wanted to tell you something funny that I did. We don't travel a ton, but we travel enough and we're really boring, and when we travel we still use our Netflix and who the accounts or whatever and the other day. So for years we've had there's four of us in our family, and like our initials are on me kind of like R T E G.

56:30 And there there's been a Z there, which somehow we picked Z up years ago in an Airbnb and once in a while just peeking is watching and I don't know, for whatever reason, I just let it, let it right. So we got back from our trip and so somehow Karen is on there, there's a Karen. I'm like, Karen, no, we are not, We're not. Z is like a family member now, but we can't kick Karen out. Karen so harsh. I'm just curious, what did you see what car And was watching before you kicked her out. You know, I don't think I looked, but I saw their age and I think that they were a little older, which I was kind of surprised, like older than me.

57:12 I mean, I'm so young, but you know, yeah, that's not anyway. That just cracked me out that when we saw Karen, I'm like, Karen, not today, You're messing with the wrong girl. Then I was like, I could have deleted Z, but I'm like, I'm. Just's been with us a long time. I never check on Z to see if if Z is watching anything or if they just logged in. Possible they could have just logged in. One Yeah, it could have been just had an Airbnb and then that was it. Yeah, that's a good point because they probably can't log back in rather once they get home. Don't seem a little weird though, if you are at an Airbnb and you see that there's a Hulu signed in, Like I could see, okay, I'm going to watch a show, but you create an account for yourself or create a. And I would just, like, you know, click on your account, and I think we have done that before, which I always feel a little guilty about it. But it's like it's such a pain to sign into Netflix or who it really is from a new TV. So are you watching anything right now?

58:04 I am watching Breaking Bad? I am rewatching it. You watched this is your second to go through? Yeah, I only watched it once. All the way through. I've seen you know, bits and pieces episodes here and there, but I decided to rewatch it because we so we watched Better Call Saul after Breaking Bad, and I loved Better Call Saul. But one of the things I felt like I didn't pay enough attention during Breaking Bad because there were a lot of characters that were the same and I had forgotten who was who. And I thought, it's such a great show. I just want to watch it again. And then yeah, I'll probably watch Better Call Saul again too. So nic said, you have pre time to watch shows. I just like to work on the podcast. Yeah, except when I'm the four hours. I know you're much more dedicated than I.

58:46 And it is not at all true. I'm just teasing you. This week was just tough. One of the reasons this week has been tough is because our son is going back to college and I'm feeling I'm not going to cry. You are going to cry. I'm going to cry like when he leaves. But I'm trying not to cry. Now you're going to try and cry in the next five minutes. I mean, it's it has been an emotional week, especially for you, but. Well because Emma left recently too, and we've never had an empty nest before. Right, whenever one of them has been gone on the other one school, the other one's been here or something. So yeah, so I have I have an exciting announcement. We're adopting. We're adopting a child. That's what you said, you when you said earlier something about we have a new a new baby, a new baby.

59:26 I was like, Okay, what's going on. I got a message from the schools the other day, like the foreign exchange program. They're looking for host parents, and I was tempted really get into it. But I was really tempted because we have we'll have three empty bedrooms now and Darling son, we'll come home right and you know, Emma's room is still available to her. But you know, yeah, it's gonna be different. It's going to be different, an adjustment. Yeah you scared. I'm terrified. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I don't say I think it'll be fun. But I it'll be. It'll be a new phase of life. You really seem nervous about it. I don't think. No, I'm not really nervous about it. I think it'll be I think it'll be great. And I know he's not going to be gone forever either.

1:00:10 He's still in school, so it's not like a permanent thing. When he does eventually move out for the last time. Then you'll leave me and start with a new woman. No, but that might be no family. That might be more emotional or difficult for me than this is. Because I feel like this is sort of like it's you know, it'll be back in a few weeks. It's weird to want your kids to stay forever. No, totally. Yeah, I think I want them to have adventures, you know, good lives and all those things. Yeah. Well, please send us your thoughts and prayers as we embark upon this new adventure together. Thank you alone, just the two of us.

1:00:51 Thank you all so much for listening and making our lives better by supporting us on our podcast journey. If you'd like to listen to parts two and three of this episode right now, you can join us on patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. We have one tier five dollars a month. You get early ad free access, plus a monthly bonus. Episode and if you want to send us one of your children where a snack lmkpod Pobox one one one Dexter Michigan four eight one three zero. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1:01:31 Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband. Accup to c.