Aug. 25, 2025

Betty and Dan Broderick - Part 1 of 3

Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon

Betty and Dan Broderick were a golden couple in San Diego, CA. He, a powerful attorney; she, a devoted, fun-loving wife and mother of four. But when Dan turned 40 he became a cliche. He bought a Corvette, fell for his much younger legal assistant, and left Betty after 16 years of marriage. Their bitter six-year divorce became the most contentious in San Diego County history, a battle over money, custody, and control. On November 5, 1989, it ended in shocking violence when Betty walked into the couple’s home and killed Dan and his new wife, Linda, as they slept, turning a local divorce drama into one of the most infamous true crime cases of the century.

Listen to all three parts ad-free on Patreon

Today's snack: Twix bites

Sources

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.680
Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing

2
00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:05.240
we've learned and over twenty years of marriage, it's.

3
00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:07.519
That some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

4
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:10.119
And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

5
00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:29.519
Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, how

6
00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:31.280
are you? I'm doing great? How are you?

7
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.719
I'm all right. It's feeling like a Monday.

8
00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:35.679
It is a Monday, Happy Monday.

9
00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:38.479
We're recording this a week before it's going to be released,

10
00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:41.200
so if you're listening, we hope that you are having

11
00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:45.240
a Friday ish Monday, but having a mondayish Monday.

12
00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:47.880
Where I think we're both having on mondayish Monday.

13
00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:50.600
Yeah, what's going wrong for you? Or you're just because

14
00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:52.399
I'm having a not great day exactly.

15
00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:55.200
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm having a sympathy Monday.

16
00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.200
Well I appreciate that because you are. You are an

17
00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:01.359
excellent partner. You are not at all like Dan Broderick. No,

18
00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:02.439
it's a compliment.

19
00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:03.920
I'm glad to hear that.

20
00:01:04.280 --> 00:01:08.280
I've wanted to tell this case since we started the podcast.

21
00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.000
This was one I almost told the story first, but

22
00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:13.480
I've had to wait three years to tell you the story.

23
00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:15.879
And I am looking forward to telling you the story.

24
00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:17.760
I'm pretty sure it's going to be three parts. So

25
00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:21.719
it's been you know, a lot of work, but it's

26
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:25.319
a really interesting story. It's a true crime classic. But

27
00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:27.920
before we get into the case, do you want to

28
00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:29.359
talk about our new baby.

29
00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:32.359
I didn't know we had a new.

30
00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:34.519
Well it's not really a baby, but we have a

31
00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:37.120
new version of our podcast. We posted about it on

32
00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:42.840
social media and everyone was so he went in another baby.

33
00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.280
I think I'm good. But we just.

34
00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:50.040
Briefly wanted to talk about why we are starting Love

35
00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:52.280
Mary Kill Just the Facts. Do you want to talk

36
00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:53.120
about that for a minute.

37
00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.400
Yeah. So there is a vigorous online debate about true

38
00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.840
crime podcasts and whether people like banter or they don't

39
00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:02.760
like and people feel very strongly on both sides, and

40
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:06.079
we can totally understand I think both sides as well.

41
00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:08.919
We have always done banter at the beginning banter at

42
00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:10.680
the end to try to keep it a little bit lighter,

43
00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:12.919
but there are people that just don't like that, and

44
00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:16.000
so we decided to launch a new version of the

45
00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.000
podcast that is just the Facts. We're basically taking out

46
00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:20.360
the front and the back end.

47
00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:23.599
Apologies to our Patreon members, because we did talk about

48
00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:26.000
the center Pachreon member that they're getting, you know, this

49
00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:29.719
repeated content. But if I'm listening to a podcast, most

50
00:02:29.719 --> 00:02:31.800
of the times I prefer not to hear a lot

51
00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:34.840
of banter, either case File is one of my favorites,

52
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:39.120
or Dateline and you know, so sometimes it's it's nice

53
00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:41.759
just to hear the facts. You're right, So thank you

54
00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:45.280
to everyone who commented on social media that they love

55
00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:48.159
what we're doing and you enjoy our banter enter snacks.

56
00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:50.520
It is really funny to me. First, I think it

57
00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:53.719
made me really sad, but whenever we got a negative review,

58
00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:56.960
people would always say, and no one cares about your snack.

59
00:02:57.560 --> 00:03:00.560
So we can laugh about that now because it's okay.

60
00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.080
We like what we're doing, but we just want to

61
00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:04.199
try to reach more people.

62
00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:06.120
Yeah, some people do care about our snacks. And if

63
00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.120
you do, stick with us on Love Mary Kill Classic,

64
00:03:09.199 --> 00:03:11.759
and if you don't, then go to Love Mary Kill.

65
00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.039
Just the facts. We won't be offended either way.

66
00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.400
And on Cue, our lawnmower showed up. So it's not

67
00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:20.560
the neighbors this time, it's the person that mos our lot. Yeah,

68
00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:22.960
but the good news is it's almost the end of

69
00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:26.680
lawnmower's season. Things are cooling off here a little.

70
00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:29.479
Bit with good news depending on your perspective. I don't

71
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:31.080
mind summer very much, but.

72
00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:32.039
I hate summer.

73
00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:32.680
I know you do.

74
00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.400
I don't hate it, but I'm this summer has been dreadful.

75
00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:38.599
It has been really I don't think it's just for us. Actually,

76
00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:40.759
if anything, I think we're cooler than the rest of

77
00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:43.719
the United States. I think it's been brutal for a

78
00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.680
lot of people. I saw a little graphic about like

79
00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:51.560
the Great Lake states like Illinois and Michigan and Ohio

80
00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:55.400
have been actually the only states in the country that

81
00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:57.360
haven't had one hundred degree temperatures.

82
00:03:57.400 --> 00:03:59.400
Oh wow, so we've.

83
00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:01.840
Definitely had like feel like one hundred degrees.

84
00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:03.879
But yeah, yeah, Well, I am looking forward to fall

85
00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:06.000
as well. I just I love fall. I just don't

86
00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.479
like what it poortends. I don't like winter, and when

87
00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:10.080
you get to fall, then it's like, oh, I.

88
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.080
Like all the seasons to a certain extent, but this

89
00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:16.600
summer has been particularly grilling. But I brought you a snack, okay,

90
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:18.600
And I know I've been a little bit of a

91
00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:22.360
hoof kick. This snack isn't I think you're gonna like it.

92
00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:24.480
It's not so help I saw a measuring cup in

93
00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:27.279
the kitchen filled with film what looked like melted chocolate.

94
00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:28.680
Yeah, did you just drink it?

95
00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:30.279
No, didn't touch it.

96
00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:32.680
I saw this on Instagram the other day. I made

97
00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:34.360
you homemade TwixT bites.

98
00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.000
Ooh, that sounds really good.

99
00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:39.360
You take many Nello wafers, which I didn't even know existed,

100
00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:41.560
and you take a rollo. You put the roller on

101
00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.759
top of one mill minillo wafer, put it in the

102
00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:48.279
oven for a few minutes, let it get melty, put

103
00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:51.199
another one on top, and then you dip them in chocolate.

104
00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:52.519
Oh man, that sounds really good.

105
00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:54.879
I think you're gonna like them all right, right back.

106
00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:04.120
What did you think of the homemade TwixT bites?

107
00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:07.439
Ten out of ten? No notes, they're really good.

108
00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:09.240
It's good. I saw the recipe, and I know how

109
00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:11.920
you feel about Nola wafers that I thought you would

110
00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:15.160
probably like them. The problem is they're really they're not tiny,

111
00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:17.720
but they're small, so you could easily pop twenty five

112
00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.439
in your mouth before you know what's happened that Actually,

113
00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:23.680
are you familiar with Betty Brodrick.

114
00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:26.160
I know the name but I am not familiar with

115
00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:26.680
the story.

116
00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:28.879
There have been a lot of movies about her, and

117
00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:30.879
a lot of books have been written about her, and

118
00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.639
I've read three of them. She is a fascinating woman.

119
00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:37.000
I would put her up there with like Diane downs

120
00:05:37.000 --> 00:05:40.240
Do you remember Diane Downs. Yeah, similar to Diane Downes.

121
00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:42.399
Just there's a lot going on upstairs.

122
00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:42.800
Okay.

123
00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:45.040
I do want to give a content warning. This episode

124
00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:48.920
contains harsh language and discussion of suicide, so please listen

125
00:05:49.000 --> 00:05:52.759
with care. I believe multiple people have recommended this episode,

126
00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:54.480
but like I said, it's been on our to do

127
00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:57.680
list since the very beginning. I think more people have

128
00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:01.199
recommended this, but on our case suggestion spreadsheet I have

129
00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:05.000
Jess and Jane, so thank you for recommending this case.

130
00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:07.959
The streets of San Diego were silent and the early

131
00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.240
hours of November fifth, nineteen eighty nine, the city still

132
00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:14.519
wrapped up in darkness. A thin marine layer clung to

133
00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.000
the air, muting the glow of the street lights. As

134
00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:20.759
Betty Broderick drove her aging green Chevrolet Suburban with her

135
00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:24.040
familiar Vanity plate load them up through the winding streets

136
00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.240
in the quiet neighborhood of Marston Hills. Betty caught a

137
00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:29.879
glimpse of her reflection and the rear view mirror as

138
00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.079
she turned onto Dan's street. The woman staring back at

139
00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.839
her was barely recognizable. Her once smooth face was now

140
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:40.720
bloated and lined, her hair brassy and brittle. She wasn't

141
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:44.399
sure what's stung more her deteriorated appearance or the fact

142
00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.560
that her family husband, un wealthy La Joya friends had

143
00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.000
abandoned her entirely when the divorce turned ugly. It was

144
00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:53.079
just past six am and most of the city was

145
00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:56.319
still asleep. Betty wasn't. She had been away for hours,

146
00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.560
her mind spiraling over a fresh set of legal documents

147
00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:02.920
that she received in the mail. She'd thought everything was

148
00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:07.560
settled after the treacherous six year long legal marathon Dan

149
00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.439
had put her through. She couldn't take another second of

150
00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:14.319
this torture. It needed to end. Long ago, she'd predicted

151
00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.600
it was going to be either him or her. They

152
00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.199
both couldn't survive, and now she was going to make

153
00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:21.319
sure of it. The house set at the end of

154
00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.680
a tree lined street, a stately, two story brick colonial

155
00:07:24.839 --> 00:07:28.160
with green shutters and stark white pillars, and the kind

156
00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:31.800
of manicure lawn that graces the pages of real estate brochures.

157
00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:36.560
Tacky little house, Betty thought to herself. Just months earlier,

158
00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:40.199
Dan and Linda, her replacement, the younger, fresher version, had

159
00:07:40.240 --> 00:07:43.480
stood in that very yard, beaming for the society pages

160
00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:46.920
as if they were royalty. Betty pulled to a stop nearby,

161
00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:50.120
cutting her headlights as she coasted into the curb. The

162
00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:53.480
neighborhood slumbered peacefully. As Betty climbed out of her suburban.

163
00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.519
She peeked inside her purse designer, of course, to verify

164
00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:00.040
that her gone, A thirty eight caliber revolver that she

165
00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:03.680
she'd purchased months earlier, was still there. She had swiped

166
00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:06.120
the key to Dan's obscenity of a house from her

167
00:08:06.199 --> 00:08:09.519
daughter Kim's room. Betty slipped the cool metal key into

168
00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.240
her pocket. It was so quiet Betty could hear her

169
00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:14.720
heart beating as she walked up the path, the sound

170
00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:18.120
of her footsteps falling against the concrete. The key slid

171
00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:20.800
easily into the lock. What kind of idiot buy is

172
00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:23.360
the most ostentatious house on the block and doesn't have

173
00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:27.399
a security system. Thank goodness, Dan hates dogs, Betty thought

174
00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.519
to herself as she stepped inside. Betty knew the layout

175
00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:34.399
from previous break ins. She moved silently, deliberately through the

176
00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.039
house as the first pinks of daybreak began to peek

177
00:08:37.039 --> 00:08:39.720
through the windows. Her hand gripped her purse as she

178
00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.279
ascended the stairs. When Betty reached the master bedroom doorway,

179
00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:45.879
she watched Dan and Linda as they lay sleeping in

180
00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:49.039
their bed, the digital clock on their nightstand glowing in

181
00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:51.200
a muted light, she could make out the two figures

182
00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.840
beneath the covers. Unaware that their carefully constructed new life

183
00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:58.120
was about to end. She raised the revolver, her hand

184
00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:02.600
surprisingly steady, decide, and squeezed the trigger, quickly releasing five

185
00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:05.279
bullets from the chamber. What happened in the seconds that

186
00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:09.080
followed would leave two people dad, spark a media firestorm,

187
00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.919
and transformed Betty Broderick into one of the most notorious

188
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:16.799
and fascinating figures in American true crime. Her appearance on

189
00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.480
OPRAH became the show's second highest rated episode ever. Two

190
00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:23.080
movies of the Week would be made about her. They

191
00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:26.559
didn't come close to capturing her essence, because while plenty

192
00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:29.320
of women have been scorn, there has only ever been

193
00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.240
one Betty Broderick, and she was never going to slip

194
00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:36.639
quietly into the night. Here is her story. Marita Cutler

195
00:09:36.679 --> 00:09:40.360
and Frank Piskeglia married just before he was sent overseas

196
00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:44.120
to fight in World War Two. Both came from Catholic families,

197
00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:47.600
Marita from a devout Irish household in the Bronx and

198
00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:51.600
Frank from an Italian family. He was bilingual, speaking both

199
00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:55.919
English and Italian. Marita's father, Michael Cutler, served as a

200
00:09:55.919 --> 00:09:58.960
detective with the New York Police Department, while her mother

201
00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:02.039
worked as a school tea creature. The couple had two daughters,

202
00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:06.480
Marita and Catherine. Education was important to the Biskeglias. Both

203
00:10:06.519 --> 00:10:09.200
Marita and Catherine went on to graduate from college with

204
00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.200
degrees in education. After marrying her husband, Frank, Marita stayed

205
00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:15.440
with her parents and sisters in the Bronx in their

206
00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.600
apartment building called Hope Place while he was away at war.

207
00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:21.279
It was during this time that she gave birth to

208
00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:25.120
their first child, Marita Jane. When Frank finally returned home,

209
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.840
the couple moved into an apartment just across the hall

210
00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:31.240
from her parents. Soon after, their son, Frank Junior, was born,

211
00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.039
and on November seventh, nineteen forty seventh, they welcomed their

212
00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.559
third child, Elizabeth Ann, better known as Betty.

213
00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:41.480
Kind of unusual for a child to be named after

214
00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:43.720
their mother. You don't hear that very often.

215
00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.279
Yeah, I think that obviously was a family name.

216
00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.000
I wonder how that made Betty feel, though, because both kids,

217
00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:52.279
both the other kids were named after their parents and Betty, I.

218
00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:54.000
Think everything made Betty angry.

219
00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:54.679
Yeah.

220
00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:57.799
With their quickly expanding family, the Biskeglias moved to the

221
00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:01.320
suburbs of New York, settling an east Chester, where Marita

222
00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:05.159
soon gave birth to their final two children, Claire and Gerard.

223
00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:11.399
Frank worked alongside his brothers and their family business as plasterers. Catherine,

224
00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.320
Marita's sister or aunt Kay as they called her, moved

225
00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:16.919
just a few houses down and had four children of

226
00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.960
her own. The cousins were best of friends, spending lots

227
00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:24.000
of time together. Marita, who had depended on public transportation

228
00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:26.240
while living in the city, refused to learn how to

229
00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:29.120
drive after moving to the suburbs, something that left her

230
00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:33.279
feeling restless and often bored. Betty referred to her as

231
00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:37.679
the original desperate housewife. Moody and frustrated, often taking it

232
00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.240
out on her kids. Betty remembered her childhood as mostly happy,

233
00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:44.440
but she said she always had to tread carefully around Marita.

234
00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:46.840
She never knew which version of her mother she was

235
00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.080
going to get, but the best day of the week

236
00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:52.080
was Sunday, when the large, noisy family got together for

237
00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.759
a big Italian feast. Betty later reflected on her mother

238
00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.480
and credit her with raising her and her sister well

239
00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.559
and teaching them social grace and always making sure that

240
00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.279
they had the very best of everything, even when money

241
00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:07.679
was tight. Betty was raised in a strict Catholic home.

242
00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.080
The children all attended parochial school from kindergarten to high

243
00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:14.120
school and even college. Betty was a good girl and

244
00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:16.879
wanted to please her parents and the nun, leading a

245
00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.320
somewhat sheltered life. When her youngest sibling was born, Betty

246
00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:23.559
was ten, She doated on the baby and impressed everyone

247
00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:25.759
with how good she was with him, though she was

248
00:12:25.799 --> 00:12:29.039
still a child herself. At just twelve years old, Betty

249
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.679
began babysitting. She was soon in high demand around the neighborhood,

250
00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:36.519
eventually becoming the regular sitter for the Think family every day.

251
00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.720
After school. From three to seven, Betty helped Missus Fink

252
00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.080
with her three boisterous young children. She worked for the

253
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:46.399
family through her college years. Betty loved working for the

254
00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.240
Happy family and said that she modeled her own family

255
00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:52.879
after them. At five eleven, blond and beautiful, Betty became

256
00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:55.639
a part time model in addition to her nannying, and

257
00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.679
also took on another job as a hostess at a restaurant,

258
00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:02.159
all while maintaining good grades in high school. Betty threw

259
00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.039
herself into work, determined to avoid being at home whenever

260
00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:08.519
possible due to the strained relationship she had with her mother.

261
00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.279
So Betty was a really busy young woman. She's working

262
00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.799
three jobs and going to school, and she was dating too.

263
00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:17.320
Yeah, that's a lot to take on.

264
00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:20.559
Later in Betty's life, when things became bad, she said

265
00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.440
this about her parents. I love my dad and my mom.

266
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.440
They're both good people, but they've led such nice, peaceful

267
00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:29.639
lives that they simply can't face anything unpleasant, And so

268
00:13:29.919 --> 00:13:32.639
they don't face it. They go to Paris instead and

269
00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.919
sing tra la la la la, and just pretend nothing's happening.

270
00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.000
Betty was a hard worker, and before long she had

271
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.639
saved enough money to buy her first car, a green convertible. MG.

272
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:47.360
She couldn't have been prouder. So again, Betty's in high

273
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:49.639
school and she bought a new car by herself.

274
00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:50.759
That sounds nice.

275
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.240
Yeah, it's adorable. I had to google a picture of it,

276
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:55.919
but it's a really cute car. Betty attended college at

277
00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.639
Mount Saint Vincent's on the banks of the Hudson River.

278
00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:01.679
She had acquired an enviable wardrobe and a taste for

279
00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.879
the finer things from her modeling days, owning shoes from Gucci, Urmez,

280
00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:08.919
scarves and pearls from Tiffany's. She made a lot of

281
00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:11.399
new friends in college and continued to be a good

282
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:13.000
girl with perfect grades.

283
00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:17.639
Daniel Thomas Broderick the third was born and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

284
00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:21.120
in November nineteen forty four, the eldest of nine children,

285
00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:25.080
five boys, four girls in a devout Irish Catholic family.

286
00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:28.039
His mother, Yolanda, was pregnant with him when his father,

287
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.279
Dan Senior went overseas to fight in the war. When

288
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.120
he returned, Dan joined his family's successful lumber business. He

289
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.279
was a heavy drinker with a volatile temper, abusive toward

290
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.279
both his wife and children, and the household was often

291
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:44.320
ruled by fear of him. The Brodericks were well off,

292
00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:47.120
but the children were all taught the importance of frugality,

293
00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:52.480
self sufficiency, and education. All nine children attended college. Nothing

294
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.159
was ever handed to them. Being the oldest and his

295
00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:58.679
father's namesake, the pressure to succeed was greatest on Dan,

296
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.080
and he didn't disappoin his parents. They were very proud

297
00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.679
of him. He was a hard worker, a natural leader,

298
00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:08.559
and clear minded. Dan willed himself to be successful. He

299
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.159
and his four brothers were all expected to attend Notre

300
00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:13.360
Dame like their father before them.

301
00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:15.320
Nine kids and they all went to college.

302
00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:19.000
That is pretty amazing. I'm guessing they all made they

303
00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.120
work their own way through college, paid their own way.

304
00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:24.159
Probably the only one that I can speak for is Dan,

305
00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:25.320
and he certainly did.

306
00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:27.960
Used to be a little bit cheaper back then, but

307
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:31.799
still that's pretty impressive. Betty and Dan met in November

308
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.759
nineteen sixty five, days before her eighteenth birthday. They met

309
00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.279
at a party in South Bend, Indiana after a Notre

310
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:42.480
Dame USC football game. Years later, attending the annual Notre

311
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:46.440
Dame USC game became a beloved tradition for them. Once

312
00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.159
after their separation, Dan, feeling nostalgic and more than a

313
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:53.440
little drunk, called Betty from the stadium. He told her

314
00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:55.679
how much he had once loved her, even as he

315
00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:59.440
attended the game with another woman. It devastated Betty. The

316
00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.000
trip to No Notre Dame in nineteen sixty five was

317
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:04.320
the first time Betty's parents had allowed her to go

318
00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:07.120
away for the weekend with friends, and only because her

319
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.679
friend's brother was a student there and had agreed to

320
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:12.879
chaperone the freshman girls. While sitting at a table with

321
00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.840
friends during a party, Dan approached Betty and asked if

322
00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:18.840
she had a pen. She handed him her silver Tiffany

323
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:21.399
pen and watched as he scrawled his name on the stark,

324
00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:26.120
white linen tablecloth. Daniel T. Broderick the third MD, with

325
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.320
an A in parentheses after When Betty asked what the

326
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.399
A was for, he responded coyly almost he explained that

327
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.879
he had applied to both law school and medical school

328
00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:39.320
and had decided on attending Cornell Medical School. The next fall,

329
00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:42.480
Betty returned home to New York, never expecting to hear

330
00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:46.159
from Dan Broderick again. Unbeknownst to her. That first night,

331
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:48.919
he told friends that he was going to marry Betty.

332
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:50.519
Did you say that when you met me?

333
00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:57.360
Uh No, not right away. It wasn't long, did well,

334
00:16:57.360 --> 00:16:59.919
it wasn't long after we met. I did tell people

335
00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:02.720
that I thought I could see myself spending the rest

336
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:04.799
of my life with you, but it was probably a

337
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:05.480
couple weeks in.

338
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:10.400
Wow, it's a little type and rich, I told everyone.

339
00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:13.680
I'm sure you did. While Dan slipped from Betty's mind,

340
00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:16.640
he couldn't stop thinking about her, sending her flowers and

341
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.839
a telegram that he was coming to New York for

342
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:21.720
the Notre Dame Navy game and wanted to see her again.

343
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:25.200
Dan checked a few boxes on Betty's list. He didn't

344
00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:29.240
smoke or drink excessively, he was Catholic, didn't believe in divorce,

345
00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:31.759
and he had the ambition she was looking for in

346
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.559
a partner. But Betty preferred the men she dated to

347
00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:38.039
be tall and athletic, and unfortunately for Dan, he was

348
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:41.279
neither of those things. She only dated men she saw

349
00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.000
as potential husbands, and in that regard, Dan fell short.

350
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.160
Literally he was an inch shorter than her and wore

351
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.799
tortoise shell glasses, geek city, Betty described him. When Dan

352
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.839
arrived in New York for medical school in September nineteen

353
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.799
sixty six, Betty tried to pawn him off to her friends,

354
00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.839
but he only had eyes for her. Because he was

355
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.880
new in town. Betty took him around and introduced him

356
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:08.279
to people in places. Soon she found herself charmed by

357
00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.160
Dan Broderick. He was adventurous and fun. He made her laugh,

358
00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:15.960
but there were red flags early on. Dan was controlling,

359
00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:19.400
insisted on being in charge and having things go exactly

360
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.240
his way. Betty, like most women raised in the nineteen sixties,

361
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.200
was taught to be polite and submissive to men, so

362
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:27.839
she kept calm and carried on.

363
00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:31.079
I'm so glad that I was not raised in the sixties.

364
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:33.880
Yeah, we'll be back after a break.

365
00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:44.680
Jan wanted to date Betty exclusively, get engaged and Mary

366
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.799
soon after, but Betty was adamant she wanted to finish

367
00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:51.359
college before settling down. She continued to date a roster

368
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.680
of men, which is likely what made her more intriguing

369
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.400
to Dan. Betty described Dan to the La Times quote

370
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:01.960
he was very ambitious, very intelligent, and very funny, and

371
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.519
I am those three things. We were from the same

372
00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:07.240
kind of background. We both wanted the same things in

373
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:11.559
the future, wealth, social standing, and a large family. All

374
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:14.160
I wanted was to be a mommy. He promised me

375
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:16.599
the moon. The guy asked me to marry him every

376
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:20.920
day for three years. Betty finished college in just three years,

377
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.720
earning a double major in nursing and early childhood education

378
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:28.119
with a minor in English. After completing a semester of

379
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.960
student teaching, Betty landed a job in January nineteen seventy

380
00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:35.319
teaching third grade in east Chester, New York. It was

381
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.079
a perfect fit. She'd grown up in the area, knew

382
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.400
many of the families at the school, and her aunt

383
00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:43.079
Kay even taught there. Plus it was one of the

384
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.559
best paying school districts in the area, which was a

385
00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:49.039
nice bonus. She finally recalled this as a very happy

386
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:52.079
time in her life. Soon after, Dan proposed with a

387
00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.640
custom engagement ring. This time Betty said yes. Her mother

388
00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.880
planned an elaborate wedding to Betty's dismay, deciding every detail

389
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.200
without consulting her daughter. When Dan refused to wear the

390
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.559
morning coat that Marita had chosen for him to wear,

391
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:10.279
opting instead for a pin strite suit and Paisley tie.

392
00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:13.319
It caused a rift between the two that would never

393
00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:15.160
be repaired or forgotten.

394
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:19.119
Oh that seems like not a great cause for a

395
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:20.160
lifelong rift.

396
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:24.839
You know, you don't think so. Wow, Well you are

397
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:27.880
not a woman, so you wouldn't understand. But well, it

398
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.480
was sad because Betty in her book described this situation

399
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.640
and she was really mad that her mom planned everything

400
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:39.039
and really didn't ask her opinion. It was really frustrating

401
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:41.359
for Betty because you know, she had dreamed of planning

402
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:42.039
her own wedding.

403
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:42.400
Yeah.

404
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:45.240
I think her mom was kind of a society person

405
00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:49.000
and she wanted things her way to impress her friends.

406
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:49.359
Okay.

407
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.039
They were married in April nineteen sixty nine, the year

408
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:56.960
of Woodstock, But Betty and Dan were not hippies or feminists.

409
00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.799
They were both polished and traditional, with their sights set

410
00:20:59.920 --> 00:21:03.640
up a picture perfect, upwardly mobile life. Since she was

411
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:06.200
a young girl, Betty had imagined her future as at

412
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.920
a voted housewife, building a family and home with the

413
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.599
man she loved, But the reality of her marriage to

414
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.640
Dan quickly shattered those dreams. With Dan still in medical school,

415
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.400
the financial burden of rent and bills fell squarely on

416
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.319
her shoulders. Almost immediately, Betty began to regret her decision.

417
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.480
She later claimed that Dan did too, admitting to a

418
00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.000
friend that he had second thoughts about the marriage almost

419
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:31.079
as soon as it happened. These cracks grew more visible

420
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:33.839
during their honeymoon in Saint Thomas, where Betty got her

421
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.160
first shoe glimpse of Dan's drinking. Their wedding night was

422
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.480
nothing like she had hoped. Her first sexual experience was

423
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:43.519
hurried and crude, with Dan falling asleep on top of

424
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:47.640
her without even bothering to undress. Betty would later allege

425
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.799
that he'd even canceled the hotel's housekeeping service, insisting that

426
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:54.640
she cleaned the room herself an actively maid.

427
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:56.240
Oh that's not cool.

428
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.599
When they returned from their honeymoon, there were no units

429
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.079
available and married housing at Cornell, so Betty moved into

430
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:07.160
Dan's tiny dorm room. Despite Betty being the breadwinner, Dan

431
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:10.920
took over their finances. In her book Telling On Myself,

432
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:13.799
Betty wrote about getting married at a young age, quote,

433
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.920
I went from very strict protective parents directly into the

434
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.400
arms of a very strict, controlling husband without one single

435
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.119
day on my own, where I could have made my

436
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.000
own choices and tried to live my own life. I

437
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:27.720
never thought about what I was missing then, because you

438
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:30.599
can't miss what you've never had, Or at least that's

439
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:33.039
what I used to believe. He was always afraid I

440
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.920
would leave him, and I wish that I could have

441
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.440
left him. I wanted to. I wanted to annul the

442
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:39.720
whole thing right away, but I knew that could never

443
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:42.160
happen in my family. I couldn't leave him, and I

444
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:46.960
couldn't go home. Besides to Catholics marriages forever, Dan knew

445
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:49.559
he had me where he wanted me, trapped.

446
00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:52.039
That does not sound like a good way to start

447
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:53.079
out married.

448
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.480
Like exactly like from the beginning, I think they were

449
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:56.240
somewhat doomed.

450
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:57.200
Yeah, it's too bad.

451
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:01.000
Shortly after their honeymoon, when robust b Betty found herself

452
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:04.599
with persistent bleeding, nausea, and heartburn, she was shocked to

453
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.759
learn that she was pregnant. She blamed her Catholic school

454
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.519
education for not knowing about birth control, assuming that Dan,

455
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:14.119
who was studying to be a doctor, would know how

456
00:23:14.119 --> 00:23:16.720
to prevent such an occurrence. Until they were ready to

457
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:20.119
start a family, ideally after Dan had graduated and they

458
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:23.440
had more than one income to support their family. Betty

459
00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.839
was still teaching when Kim was born on January twentieth,

460
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:31.839
nineteen seventy. She worked her whole pregnancy. Betty had very

461
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:35.240
hard pregnancies. She fled throughout her pregnancy, and she had

462
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.720
a lot of sickness. She worked like the entire pregnancy.

463
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:39.440
That's rough.

464
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:41.960
On the night that Kim was born, the Broaderies were

465
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.400
hosting a party at their house. Betty, feeling labor coming on,

466
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.599
prepared food and entertained the guests while waiting for her

467
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.400
husband to turn up. But Dan didn't show up until

468
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.720
nearly midnight, drunk with a woman on his arm.

469
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:55.359
Boy.

470
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:58.920
By this time, Betty's labor pains were intense. After they

471
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.119
arrived at the hospital and a taxi, Dan promptly fell

472
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.160
asleep in the waiting room. Luckily for Betty, it was

473
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.240
a quick and easy delivery. When the doctor wrote Dan

474
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:10.240
to tell him the good news, the two of them

475
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:11.640
went to a bar to celebrate.

476
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.240
Oh good Lord, she wish.

477
00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:16.400
That you lived in the nineteen sixties. It was a

478
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.319
man's world. I don't I mean, it's still a man's world.

479
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.000
But it is comical. I know it's sad, but I

480
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:25.559
think of like the show mad Men, and I just

481
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:27.839
remembered the one scene when I think it was Pete

482
00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:29.799
his wife had a baby, and he's like in a

483
00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.279
meeting and they're like, oh, your wife had a girl,

484
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:33.960
and he was like, okay, great, and then they go

485
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.079
back to the meeting. It's like, oh, man, just a

486
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:36.920
different world.

487
00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.559
Like it's hard to believe that dads weren't allowed in

488
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:41.480
the I don't know if they were, they weren't allowed,

489
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:42.960
or they just didn't do it happen.

490
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:43.279
Yeah.

491
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:46.680
Well, Dan pursued his education. Betty left her teaching job

492
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:49.440
and took on babysitting so she could remain at home

493
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:53.440
with Kim. After completing medical school, Dan changed course, deciding

494
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:56.920
he'd rather practice law than medicine, and enrolled at Harvard

495
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.799
Law School. Betty had a feeling that Dan's desire to

496
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:02.440
can continue his education had something to do with his

497
00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:07.160
desire to avoid the draft. When a draft notice eventually materialized,

498
00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:10.039
he conspired with medical friends to write him letters of

499
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:14.559
deferment due to his non existent bleeding ulcers. I am

500
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:16.559
not sure if that story was true or not. I

501
00:25:16.839 --> 00:25:19.119
found most of the things that Betty said to be true.

502
00:25:19.160 --> 00:25:21.880
M m, but that was Betty's accounts, okay.

503
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:24.640
While Dan was in his first year of law school,

504
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:28.359
Betty was miserable in their cold, sparsely finished basement apartment.

505
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.720
When she found out she was pregnant again. She longed

506
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.000
to return to teaching, but with no one to care

507
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.119
for baby Kim, it wasn't possible. And then, to make

508
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.160
matters worse, her beloved little MG the car that she

509
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:43.759
had worked so hard to buy, was stolen. To save money,

510
00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.759
Dan had canceled their auto insurance and they couldn't afford

511
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:50.200
a new car. Their financial situation was dire, but Dan

512
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.640
insisted on wearing expensive suits and bow ties to class,

513
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:57.319
determined to make the best impression on fellow students and faculty.

514
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:01.680
Throughout the remainder of Dan's life, fast was always very

515
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:04.880
important to him. He dressed well, but he also dressed

516
00:26:04.880 --> 00:26:05.799
a little quirky.

517
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:07.400
Did he always wear a bow tie?

518
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:09.240
Think he frequently wore a bow tie.

519
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.880
I've never met a guy who wears a bowtie regularly

520
00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:13.039
that I liked.

521
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:15.839
Wow, What about or Redenbacker?

522
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:20.359
I never met him Bill Nye again, never met him.

523
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:23.240
Maybe I would like him, but Betty had to take

524
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:26.960
the bus everywhere, even to do laundry, lugging soiled diapers

525
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.160
on the bus through winter snow. One night, Dan agreed

526
00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:32.359
to stay with ten month old Kim while she went

527
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:35.720
to the laundromat. Betty returned home to Dan yelling and

528
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:39.799
slapping the baby. Furious, Betty packed, told Dan she was

529
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.720
divorcing him, and left with Kim to stay with her parents.

530
00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:45.680
When she arrived, her mother, with whom Betty had never

531
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.759
had a good relationship, told her she could stay one night.

532
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:51.440
She had made her bed with Dan and she needed

533
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:55.119
to return to her marriage. There was no lifeboat. In

534
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.559
July nineteen seventy two, their second daughter, Lee was born.

535
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:02.200
In some places, I heard her referred to as Kathy Lee,

536
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:05.519
but Betty called her Lee, and I believe that's what

537
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:07.640
she has gone by most of her life. But her

538
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.119
official name, I think is Kathy Lee.

539
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:13.400
Gotcha. Kim had been an easy baby, but Lee was

540
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:17.119
challenging with constant colic. Betty said that Lee was most

541
00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:20.480
like her. Betty was soon pregnant again with her third child.

542
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:24.279
She considered getting an abortion because she was exhausted caring

543
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:27.400
for two children. Dan was never home and refused to

544
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:30.359
help with the children. When he was, he convinced Betty

545
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:32.720
that he would change and pleaded with her to keep

546
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:36.279
the baby. When she went into labor prematurely at seven months,

547
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.079
during a snowstorm, Dan was away skiing with friends. Betty

548
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:42.200
was forced to leave the girls with a neighbor and

549
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.240
call the police for a ride to the hospital. Sadly,

550
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:49.200
after four days, the baby died. Betty became deeply depressed,

551
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:52.920
and Dan was cold and unemotional. Only twenty three, she

552
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:55.720
attempted to take her life by swallowing every pill she

553
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:59.079
could find in their small apartment. She was surprised when

554
00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:02.319
she awoke the next month. Warning Dan promised her life

555
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:05.480
would soon be better, but it wasn't all difficult. Both

556
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:08.960
knew their struggles would ease once Dan graduated. At night,

557
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:11.319
they would lie in bed, imagining the house they would

558
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.799
buy and the trips they would take. They were both

559
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:17.519
always looking for ways to enrich themselves. Betty enrolled in

560
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:21.279
a French cooking class, while Dan took flying lessons. In

561
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:25.359
nineteen seventy four, Dan twenty six, graduated from Harvard Law

562
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.240
School with an MD and his new law degree. He

563
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.440
could write his own ticket. As a medical malpractice attorney.

564
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:34.440
He got a job at a large, prestigious San Diego

565
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.400
law firm, Gray Carrie, Aimes and Fry, making about thirty

566
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:41.119
thousand dollars a year or one hundred and eighty thousand

567
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.359
in today's dollars.

568
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.960
There is a lot of money in this case. And

569
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:48.240
sometimes I give you the amount adjusted for inflation, but

570
00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:51.680
most of the events took place in the mid nineteen eighties.

571
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.559
And if I don't give you the adjusted for inflation amount,

572
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:57.240
just multiply at times three.

573
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.960
Okay, But this was his new job. His new job

574
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:02.440
was in the early seventies or seventies.

575
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:04.039
So that's why it's Yeah, it's a lot more than

576
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:04.599
three times.

577
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.880
But yeah, Lance Schaeffer, who worked alongside Dan, recalled quote

578
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:11.319
he was a superstar. Dan was the kind of guy

579
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.640
who made all the rest of us look like loafers.

580
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:16.279
In his last year at the firm, he built around

581
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:20.519
twenty five hundred hours when eighteen hundred is considered tops, so.

582
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:23.519
That comes out to about ten hours a day, seven

583
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.759
days a week. So he was working a lot. Yeah,

584
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.400
and that doesn't account for the amount of times that

585
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:32.400
he had to socialize after work, and these are billable hours,

586
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:34.400
so you know, not every hour that you work as billable.

587
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.039
So right, Dan was working very hard.

588
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.759
Oh, I guess so. Dan was also active in the

589
00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.759
San Diego Bar Association, eventually serving as president, and he

590
00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:46.400
occasionally taught law classes, but those long hours came at

591
00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:49.720
a price. His wife and children often felt like an afterthought.

592
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.759
He never called home. It was against the culture of

593
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.279
the law firm. A coworker said, anybody who calls home

594
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:56.960
is a whimp.

595
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:58.000
What do you think about that?

596
00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:01.119
I mean things times have changed a lot, and I

597
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:02.000
don't think that would fly.

598
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:06.839
Anyone who calls home is a good husband and father exactly.

599
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.319
Betty tried to keep it in perspective, reminding herself that

600
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.519
Dan was building a career and reputation that one day

601
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:16.160
would pay off, giving him more time for family.

602
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:19.240
So it was all an investment in their future.

603
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:21.839
Yeah, it's such a that's kind of a deluded way

604
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:24.519
of thinking, though, you know, it's it's just gonna be

605
00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:27.079
for a while and everything's going to be better. Although

606
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.279
he was making good money, more than half of his

607
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:33.079
paycheck went towards paying down his student debt. Money was tight,

608
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.039
and Dan was resentful for any money that went toward

609
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:41.119
household expenses. Decades before most American families carried credit card debt,

610
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.119
Dan and Betty leveraged their credit, putting most of their

611
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.400
expenses on credit and borrowing from one to pay another,

612
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:51.079
a practice that Dan continued even when he had great wealth.

613
00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:55.440
Betty returned to teaching after the move to California. On weekends,

614
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:57.920
she worked at a jewelry store and as a hostess

615
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:00.839
at a restaurant. When Betty found out she was pregnant

616
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:04.160
shortly after the move, she had an abortion. A few

617
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.079
months later, she was pregnant once again, but it ended

618
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:10.640
in a miscarriage. Dan opposed the use of birth control.

619
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:13.200
He claimed he didn't believe in God, which made his

620
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:16.160
refusal to let Betty use it all the more puzzling

621
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:19.039
to her. She saw it as another means of control.

622
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:22.039
In the early years of their marriage, the Brodericks rarely

623
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:25.359
stayed in one place for long, moving nearly every six months.

624
00:31:25.480 --> 00:31:28.200
Their first house was lost in a devastating fire that

625
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:31.640
destroyed all of their belongings, but an insurance settlement made

626
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:34.319
it possible for them to start over. By the time

627
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:38.559
their third child, Daniel, Ty Broderick. The fourth dan Forth,

628
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.119
also known as Danny, was born in nineteen seventy six.

629
00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:45.799
They were ready to put down permanent brutes. I really

630
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:47.440
love the name dan Forth.

631
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:49.640
That's really cute, roll off the tongue.

632
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.839
That year, they purchased a five bedroom home on Coral

633
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.200
reef Avenue in San Diego for one hundred and thirty

634
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.839
thousand dollars, modest by La Joya standards and without this

635
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.799
weeping ocean views that the area was known for. The

636
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:06.440
house nevertheless became the heart of their family life, place

637
00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:10.039
they would cherish for the next decade. In the nineteen seventies,

638
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:13.119
La Joya was a picture perfect slice of the southern

639
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:18.400
California coast, rugged cliffs spilling into churquoise coves, palm lined

640
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.240
streets leading to elegant boutiques and art galleries, and a

641
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.720
community where a country club, luncheons, and charity galas filled

642
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:29.880
the social calendar. It was an affluent enclave, insulated from

643
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:33.200
the turbulence of the outside world, where manicured lawns and

644
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:37.599
ocean view homes signaled both success and exclusivity. Dan and

645
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:41.359
Betty Broderick entered into this sun so carefully curated world

646
00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:44.559
with big dreams, ready to carve out their place among

647
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.400
La Joya's elite. Did you have a grandmother lived in

648
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:47.960
San Diego?

649
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:48.559
I didn't.

650
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:50.279
Yeah, And you visit it?

651
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:51.000
Oh? Yeah?

652
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:52.839
And what was your impression of San Diego?

653
00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:55.640
I loved it. It was such a beautiful area. The

654
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:58.599
weather is always perfect and it's great.

655
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:01.480
Anywhere along the California coast is a beautiful place too,

656
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:04.200
for sure. Well, the way Betty described it, it sounds

657
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:09.160
very Stepford wives to me. No one ever talked about affairs, alcoholism,

658
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:12.079
or God forbid the D word. Do you know what

659
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:12.759
the D word is?

660
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.039
Oh? Divorce? Yeah, okay. I was thinking. I was going

661
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:18.400
through my head only what could that be? Divorce? Okay.

662
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.799
Dan still kept tight control of the money. Seven years

663
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:25.359
into their marriage, Betty bought her first washer and dryer

664
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:29.200
with money she earned herself. That's really surprising to me.

665
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:29.920
That is.

666
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:33.079
In nineteen seventy eight, Betty was pregnant again. In the

667
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:37.839
intervening years, she had another abortion and miscarried. She decided

668
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.200
to make this her final pregnancy. It all been difficult,

669
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:45.200
with extreme nausea throughout. She'd been pregnant nine times and

670
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:50.359
ten years when Rhett was born, she had a tubal ligation. Betty,

671
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.119
now thirty two, thought the decision was one of the

672
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:55.599
best of her life is it gave her agency over

673
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.359
her life for the first time in a long time.

674
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.839
So how many kids did they have? Have? Total? Ones?

675
00:34:01.039 --> 00:34:05.559
They had four Kim Lee, Danny and Wrex. Gotcha to

676
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:09.159
our extra money. Betty became the neighborhood babysitter, a role

677
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:12.440
that came naturally after her years of nanny ying. Children

678
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:14.880
adored her, and she was the fun mom who always

679
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.159
had room for one more at the kitchen table or

680
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.360
in the backyard. While some of La Hooya's socialite mothers

681
00:34:20.440 --> 00:34:23.719
were known for their designer dresses and perfectly styled hair,

682
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:27.079
Betty was more likely to be found in a comfortable sweatsuit,

683
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:30.119
playing sports with her kids in the yard, singing silly

684
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.719
songs with them, or inventing games for them to play.

685
00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:36.400
Her friend Candy Westbrook said quote, I remember going over

686
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:38.719
there and try to take her shopping or to a

687
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.239
movie or something, and there would be Betty standing in

688
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:44.320
her kitchen saying, whoops, no, not today, We're doing cookies

689
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.679
or biscuits or fudge. She always had a half dozen

690
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.280
kids around her, splashing dough everywhere. The place was a mess,

691
00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:54.000
but she loved it. Kids were her whole life. She

692
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:57.159
was a complete mother Earth type. Once I went over

693
00:34:57.239 --> 00:34:59.719
and she was dressed like Miss Piggy. Betty would do

694
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:02.719
any thing to make a little kid laugh. Family meant

695
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.119
everything to Betty, and it painted her deeply that her

696
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.039
husband had little interest in spending time at home with

697
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:11.960
her and the children. Betty is a very funny lady.

698
00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:14.880
She made me laugh out loud several times during her book.

699
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:18.400
She's kind of a mean girl, but also just witty,

700
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:21.719
self deprecating. But when she was telling her story, when

701
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.639
she got to about this point in her book, she wrote, quote,

702
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:27.320
hold your horses. I know you're probably getting bored with

703
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:29.320
all these little details. Do you want me to hurry

704
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.239
up and get to the good parts? The parts you

705
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:33.519
see in the movies about my life, the once the

706
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:37.199
District Attorney helped make. But stay with me, be patient,

707
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:39.920
because all of the little threads and stories are essential

708
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.400
to the tapestry of my life, of who I am

709
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:43.880
and how our marriage worked.

710
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:46.599
Well. That's a good summary of why we often spend

711
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:48.840
a fair amount of time upfront as well. Can I

712
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:51.480
talk about the backgrounds of the people involved, because.

713
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:53.519
I love having a lot of background. I hate when

714
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:57.079
we can't always get it. After five years at the

715
00:35:57.159 --> 00:35:59.960
law firm, in nineteen seventy eight, Dan left the part

716
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.440
practison decided to set out on his own. He opened

717
00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:06.000
a five hundred thousand dollars line of credit to keep

718
00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:09.079
them afloat until he could reel in some big money.

719
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:12.639
The Rodericks were already heavily into debt at this time,

720
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.000
and suiting Dan's office with top of the line furnishing

721
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:19.039
set them back even further. As his image was very

722
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:23.000
important to him, but his earning potential was enormous. We

723
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:25.320
didn't really talk about this back when Dan was getting

724
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:29.559
his degree, but a double law degree, a medical degree,

725
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:33.400
I mean that's very impressive, and really.

726
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.360
I would think, yeah, you could write your own ticket

727
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:36.119
pretty much.

728
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:40.239
Right, I mean, your earning potential is essentially limitless. This

729
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:43.480
was a surprising sweet spot in the Brodericks marriage. Dan

730
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:47.800
respected Betty's opinions on decorating and starting his new law office.

731
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:51.719
They were finally partners in something. Betty said Dan had

732
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:54.920
the prettiest office in town and it was all her vision.

733
00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:59.880
Dan was smart, respected and admired by his peers and judges.

734
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:04.159
As his reputation grew, defendants and their attorneys would fold

735
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.719
in subtle lawsuits rather than face him in court. While

736
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.840
Dan was busy growing his law practice, Betty threw herself

737
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:15.360
into life as a suburban mom with PTA meetings, orthodontist appointments,

738
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:20.079
and soccer games. She loved hosting Dan's clients and hosting

739
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:23.760
dinner parties. She also was known for hosting elaborate children's

740
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:27.280
birthday parties. Betty just really loved to throw a party,

741
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.199
but she also found time for charity work. She taught

742
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:34.199
Bible study and Sunday school. Betty made friends easily and

743
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.679
was always fun to be around. She was a good

744
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.079
listener and quick to lend a helping hand. She liked

745
00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:43.679
to carry plastic insects in her purse. When at fancy restaurants,

746
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:46.400
she'd place a bug on her plate just to frighten

747
00:37:46.400 --> 00:37:51.159
the weight staff. But privately, Betty struggled. She craved intimacy

748
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:53.639
from her partner that he was never able to provide.

749
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.199
She tried so hard to make Dan proud of her,

750
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:59.079
but he barely noticed her. He was so wrapped up

751
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:02.000
in his upward mobility that he never stopped to think

752
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:06.079
what she might need for him, Not to mention their kids. Yeah,

753
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:09.239
when Rhett was for Betty got her real estate license.

754
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:12.920
She wanted to enter the workforce and become successful in

755
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.880
her own right, but Dan didn't want her to, so

756
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:19.159
she didn't. I wanted Betty to be a fascinating woman

757
00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:22.199
when I read her book, If anything, I think that

758
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:27.519
she downplayed how dynamic she was, Like, you know, you've

759
00:38:27.519 --> 00:38:29.679
already learned, like she could do all these things at

760
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:32.400
the same time, and when the marriage was going well,

761
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:35.360
she did them seamlessly. A lot of people were in

762
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:37.599
awe of her, And I think that she could have

763
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.760
been very successful in her own career, yes, had she

764
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:41.719
chosen that path.

765
00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:43.400
Yeah, it seems like she had a lot of talents

766
00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:46.199
and was a hard worker. And yeah, definitely like people

767
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:47.000
liked her. Yeah.

768
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.880
Lawsuits can take years to go to trial or settle,

769
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.400
and sometimes just as long to get payment. But a

770
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:56.159
few years into his private practice the money started rolling in.

771
00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:59.480
Dan had set the goal of making one million dollars

772
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.239
a year, and in nineteen eighty three he made that

773
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:06.280
goal and then surpassed it. Betty said quote. We used

774
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:09.079
to go to la Vencia for dinner to celebrate when

775
00:39:09.159 --> 00:39:12.519
he won a one million dollar settlement. But finally we

776
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:15.159
were there three times in one week, so we decided

777
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:17.480
that it wasn't worth making a big deal over that

778
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.440
maybe we should move it up to ten million dollars.

779
00:39:20.840 --> 00:39:22.719
It doesn't mean that he was getting you know, he.

780
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:24.079
Got right the settlement.

781
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:26.840
That still he was a lot of funny. We'll be

782
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:28.119
back after a break.

783
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.360
Dan had always been tight with money, but as the

784
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.559
big settlement started rolling in, his grip began to loosen.

785
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:44.119
The housekeeper's hours expanded to five days a week, and

786
00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:47.079
ou Per was hired, along with a gardener and a poolman.

787
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.440
The family began traveling more, jetting off on European vacations

788
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.760
and ski trips. Betty, now more fashion conscious, invested freely

789
00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:59.480
in her wardrobe. Her new favorite hobby was revenge shopping.

790
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:02.679
Every time Dan made her mad, which was often, she

791
00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:05.480
would go shopping. Once, on a trip to New York,

792
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.800
when she became particularly enraged, she bought a pink and

793
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:12.920
lavender sequined Bob Mackie gown for seven thousand dollars.

794
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:16.320
Seven thousand dollars time, remember multi.

795
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:18.480
Yeah, that's a nice gown.

796
00:40:18.840 --> 00:40:19.159
A gown.

797
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:22.599
She was just as generous with the children, enrolling them

798
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:26.039
in every imaginable sport and class, and spoiling not just

799
00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:30.639
them but their friends as well. Almost overnight, their lifestyle transformed.

800
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:34.519
Dinners out, a grand piano, a sparkling new swimming pool,

801
00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:39.920
a huge backyard trampoline, designer clothing, club memberships, all now

802
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:43.599
within reach. For Father's Day, Betty even surprised Dan with

803
00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:46.599
a speedboat so they could water ski together. But with

804
00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:49.719
the wealth came a different kind of poverty. Dan was

805
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:53.400
more successful than ever, yet increasingly absent from the lives

806
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:56.360
of his wife and children. While many of the Lahoya

807
00:40:56.480 --> 00:41:00.280
mothers poured their energy into social obligations, charity work, and

808
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:04.519
glamorous fundraising balls, Betty carved out a different identity. She

809
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.039
was the fun mom, the one all the neighborhood kids

810
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:10.199
wanted to be around. Her house was always full of activity,

811
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:14.320
and she thrived in the chaos. Girl Scouts, boy Scouts, coaching,

812
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:17.679
soccer Load him up, as her license plate read, she

813
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:19.880
was there for all of it. It was the life

814
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:21.920
she had dreamt of since she'd been a nanny in

815
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:22.440
her youth.

816
00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:26.639
It was really devastating though, because as active as Betty

817
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.199
was in her kid's life at this point, Dan really

818
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:29.960
was not there.

819
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:32.719
Oh yeah, I can't imagine he had any time for

820
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.199
the kids, given his the work that he was doing

821
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:35.920
in the We're.

822
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:37.639
Going to talk about it a little more in a minute.

823
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.719
But he was a one man show.

824
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:40.519
Oh wow.

825
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:42.880
He didn't have anyone else working in his office with him.

826
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:44.159
He did it all on his own.

827
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:48.079
Dan Broderick had always been attractive in a boyish, slightly

828
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:51.719
nerdy way, but his newfound wealth, along with a sharper haircut,

829
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.400
contact lenses, and a no's job, transformed him into a

830
00:41:55.400 --> 00:41:59.039
handsome man. Dan's confidence had never been in short supply,

831
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.280
but success gave him a new swagger that many women

832
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.679
found irresistible. His wife, however, wasn't impressed the charms she

833
00:42:06.760 --> 00:42:09.559
once saw and now felt like an act. Everything was

834
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:15.079
for appearances. Betty began cheekily calling Dan count, Do money count?

835
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:16.199
Do money count?

836
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:19.400
Your money got it. With their new wealth, they began

837
00:42:19.480 --> 00:42:22.320
looking at larger homes along the San Diego coast line,

838
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:25.480
but Dan hedged, and Betty had a feeling she knew why.

839
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:28.599
So at this point, Dan is making We're not really sure,

840
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:32.519
but probably between two and three million dollars. And they

841
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:36.880
had redone their home, like everything was redone, like from

842
00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:40.239
the you know, the ceilings to the flooring. And I

843
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:42.239
think that Betty, you know, when she got bored, she

844
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:44.559
just wanted to spend more money. So they had been

845
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:48.559
searching for a new, grander home, probably an ocean front property,

846
00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.960
for at least a year or two. But Dan kept saying, yeah,

847
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.480
that one's not quite right, that one's not quite right.

848
00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:58.000
And it was just kind of a constant battle with them.

849
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:01.480
Okay. Dan's drinking became more of a habit, and after

850
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:06.159
a second humiliating dui, Betty recognized he had a serious problem.

851
00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:10.239
Once she knew he'd never truly confront she drew a line,

852
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:13.679
limiting her presence with him at social gatherings and refusing

853
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:16.639
to drive with him. Betty shifted gears to focus on

854
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:19.920
the children, while Dan immersed himself in work. It was

855
00:43:19.960 --> 00:43:22.480
a turning point in their marriage, and Betty sensed his

856
00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:25.800
grip on her loosening, not because he had changed, but

857
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:28.920
because his attention was shifting. And it wasn't work that

858
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:31.440
was distracting him this time, but another.

859
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.159
Woman Jane had stopped giving Betty compliments years ago, not

860
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.800
since their early courtship in New York, but it never

861
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:41.320
bothered her. She was confident in her beauty, intelligence, and humor.

862
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:45.719
She was Dan's greatest asset. His friends and business associates

863
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:49.159
all adored her, and Dan seemed oblivious to other women.

864
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:52.599
But one night at a party, her ears perked up

865
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:56.599
when she overheard him say, isn't she beautiful? He wasn't

866
00:43:56.599 --> 00:43:59.159
talking about Betty, but about a twenty one year old

867
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:04.760
receptionist office building named Linda COULKENA Betty later said quote,

868
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.079
I was shocked that this was the girl he thought

869
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.360
was so beautiful. She was just another skiddy, little bimbo

870
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:12.679
with a gap between her front teeth. She had all

871
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:16.159
those hair, all poofed up like Bridget Bardow bobby pins,

872
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:18.719
and the whole bit, not a streak of blonde in it.

873
00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:22.519
I was, to say the least underwhelmed. She couldn't hold

874
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:25.239
a candle. To me, I was prettier, I was smarter,

875
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:28.559
I was classier. It never occurred to me that Dan

876
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:31.480
would be stupid enough to throw his family away for

877
00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:34.920
this office girl. It was just too much of a cliche.

878
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:35.639
To believe.

879
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:37.360
Tell us how you really feel, Betty.

880
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:41.599
She really loves to tell people how she feels, especially

881
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:46.280
about Dan and Linda. And spoiler alert, Linda is stunning.

882
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:49.920
Betty was also stunning. But you know, Linda was not

883
00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.920
like some gap tooth bimbo. She was a beautiful woman

884
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:55.400
in her own right. At first, Betty remained in the

885
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:58.519
dark about the affair, but the whispers around town grew louder,

886
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:01.559
and soon friends began reporting back after seeing Linda and

887
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:04.480
Dan together outside of the office. In the summer of

888
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:07.199
nineteen eighty three, Betty took the children on a five

889
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:10.159
week camping tour to the National Parks of the West.

890
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:13.360
It was a great adventure, but Betty was crestfallen that

891
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:17.559
Dan skipped the trip. Family time together meant everything to her.

892
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:20.159
Dan met them for a couple of days, but he

893
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:23.559
was grouchy, cold, and distant. It seemed that his affair

894
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.559
with a receptionist in his office building had heated up

895
00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:29.079
in her absence, but Betty was not ready for a

896
00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:33.639
confrontation yet. Upon her return, Dan informed her that he'd

897
00:45:33.719 --> 00:45:36.679
hired a new assistant to help him manage his workload.

898
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:39.800
Betty was thrilled Dan had been a one man show

899
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:43.000
since he'd opened his office, and the workload was enormous.

900
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:45.760
She'd hoped this would mean more time together at home,

901
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:49.440
but when she discovered that the new assistant was Linda Culkina,

902
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:53.039
the woman she'd already suspected of having an affair with Dan,

903
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:57.599
it was the ultimate betrayal. Something inside her broke, never

904
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:01.519
to be fixed. To Betty, it was shocking Dan had

905
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.559
become the very cliche he once mocked, approaching forty with

906
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.719
a red sports car and a mushy, younger girlfriend.

907
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.159
So Linda was his receptionist originally, but now he was

908
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:15.760
hiring her to be like more of a assistant, like more.

909
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:19.559
Of a Linda was the receptionist for this big office building.

910
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:22.280
Dan was just one of the offices and that's where

911
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:25.440
she started. So she was hired to be a paralegal.

912
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:28.400
Okay, but basically now she was going to be full

913
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:29.480
time with him.

914
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:31.840
With Dan, just just the two of them.

915
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:32.199
Yeah.

916
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:34.880
Yeah. One afternoon, while Betty and Dan drove to a

917
00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:37.440
wedding together, she claims that he told her that he

918
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.119
was bored with his life, bored with her. He didn't

919
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:43.320
love her anymore. He told her she was old, fat, ugly,

920
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.960
and boring. Without Betty's knowledge, Dan had paid cash for

921
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:51.320
two lots in a new development called Fairbanks Ranch. It

922
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:54.320
seems that Dan had been preparing for his departure from

923
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:57.639
their marriage for quite some time. Later, Betty learned that

924
00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:00.639
Dan's previous law firm had written up books for their

925
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:04.519
clients called Steps to be taken when preparing for divorce.

926
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.760
Step one, don't let the other party know what you

927
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:11.119
were up to, oach. Yeah, I think that's where we're

928
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:12.239
going to stop for part one.

929
00:47:12.519 --> 00:47:15.800
Okay, well we'll come back for part two because I'm interested.

930
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:17.360
You don't have a choice and what's going to happen?

931
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.239
Oh yeah, that's right.

932
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:20.920
What do you think of Betty brought erick so far?

933
00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:25.480
She seems like a somewhat complicated person. Like you said

934
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:27.519
at the beginning, there's a lot going on in her mind.

935
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.159
She seems like she has a lot of talents, Like

936
00:47:30.239 --> 00:47:34.920
she seems very smart, very capable, seems like she loves kids.

937
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.079
So I mean, I think I know what's going to happen.

938
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:40.559
But she seems like a you know, overall good person

939
00:47:40.639 --> 00:47:44.880
and wanted to make her marriage work, And seems like

940
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:46.960
Dan was really not not into it.

941
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:50.960
Yeah, where Dan and Betty ready for marriage? Doesn't They

942
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:51.880
got married so long?

943
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:52.480
Yeah? How old?

944
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:56.000
He was twenty and no, I'm sorry. He was twenty

945
00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:58.199
three and she was twenty. They're three years apart in eg.

946
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:01.199
Yeah, it's pretty young, especially, and you know, if you're

947
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:05.039
if you're going into a marriage and you've basically divorce

948
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:08.000
is not even something that would be an option. You

949
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:10.760
better be really sure, yeah, that you're getting into a

950
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:13.079
marriage that's going to last forever. It's hard. It's hard

951
00:48:13.079 --> 00:48:15.440
to know even, you know, no matter what age you are,

952
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.760
but I think when you're that young, it's really hard

953
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:18.000
to know.

954
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:20.599
What Also seems like Dan did change a little bit

955
00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:22.519
once they were married, Like she saw a few red

956
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:25.280
flags that he was controlling. I don't think she thought

957
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:28.519
he was going to take over the finances. She literally

958
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:31.960
never knew where their money was and how much they had. Yeah,

959
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:33.760
and that was a big problem for her.

960
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:35.920
Well, and you said originally too, she liked the fact

961
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:38.280
that he didn't he wasn't a big drinker, And it

962
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:40.599
really turns out that he was a big drinker. Maybe

963
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:42.840
kept that from her in the early days.

964
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:45.639
Well, and for me, I lived like I went to college,

965
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:47.360
but then I lived on my own for a few

966
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:51.760
years before we commingles, and I'm so glad that I

967
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:53.880
got to do that. Yeah, and I know not everyone

968
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.719
is fortunate enough to be able to do that. I

969
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:59.639
mean I had like the crappiest little apartment. I mean

970
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.159
it actually I actually loved it, but yeah, you know,

971
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:05.039
it wasn't the best, but it was cheap and it

972
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:07.440
was what I sport, and it was mine and I

973
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:10.119
really am grateful that I had that opportunity.

974
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:11.760
Yeah, I think it's great to be able to have

975
00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:15.599
that opportunity, and it is sad that she never had that.

976
00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:19.639
So in nineteen sixty five, the average age of marriage

977
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:22.760
was twenty three point two years old for men and

978
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:26.119
twenty point eight years old for women. So actually, Dan

979
00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:28.639
and Betty like right on the dock, kay, right there?

980
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:30.800
Yeah, you know what it is now. I'm just it is.

981
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:32.880
Thirty for men and twenty eight for women.

982
00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:33.199
OK.

983
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:37.000
So you know, definitely we've made some progress. I don't know,

984
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:40.079
I shouldn't say progress, but you know, people are definitely

985
00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:43.719
getting married older and having children older. Yeah, that were

986
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.679
not for everyone. You know, some people get married young

987
00:49:46.760 --> 00:49:49.639
and have a great life. Together, but it doesn't always

988
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:52.000
work out that way. What do you think Betty could

989
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.239
have done differently when she saw the warning signs?

990
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:57.400
Which warning signs do you mean specifically, because there were

991
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:58.000
quite a few.

992
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:00.239
It seems like, well, I guess I mean before where

993
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:02.960
they were married, when she saw that Dan was kind

994
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:04.760
of being was being controlling with her.

995
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:06.000
Oh, well, do.

996
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:08.840
You think but Dan probably just wanted a submissive wife.

997
00:50:09.239 --> 00:50:11.400
Yeah, And I mean I think it was so common

998
00:50:11.480 --> 00:50:13.920
back then too, that that was just the way it was.

999
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:15.840
Women were supposed to be more submissive.

1000
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:17.280
Yeah, but I mean I.

1001
00:50:17.239 --> 00:50:21.519
Think Betty naturally wasn't a submissive woman, so I think

1002
00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:24.519
the cards were stacked against her for that anyway. Like

1003
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:26.920
if she would have had the perfect husband, maybe it

1004
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:29.960
would have worked out. But Dan just wasn't there supporting

1005
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:32.559
her in the ways that she might have needed more support.

1006
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:35.440
Yeah, it's a tough situation, but I guess, you know,

1007
00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:38.639
I wish that she had communicated up front that like,

1008
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:40.519
this is not going to work for me, right, If

1009
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:43.159
this is the way you're going to be, then I'm out,

1010
00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:43.639
you know.

1011
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:46.400
But what do you think drew Betty to Dan? Because

1012
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:49.400
initially she was like, I like tall athletic men and

1013
00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:51.079
you're a short geek.

1014
00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:54.719
Well. The one thing that I find interesting about Betty

1015
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:58.679
that seems somewhat contradictory is they sort of seem like

1016
00:50:58.719 --> 00:51:01.719
they were really into money and social standing, like that

1017
00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:03.639
was mentioned a few times early on, but at the

1018
00:51:03.639 --> 00:51:06.360
same time, it seems like she was more like she

1019
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:08.400
wanted to be more of a mom and she just

1020
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:11.159
wanted to have fun and do activities with the kids,

1021
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:14.639
and it seems like the status wasn't as important to her.

1022
00:51:14.719 --> 00:51:16.639
So it sort of seems like she went with him

1023
00:51:16.639 --> 00:51:20.400
because of the potential of his thereat and status, but

1024
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.039
it doesn't seem like that's necessarily what she really wanted

1025
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:23.320
to seeking.

1026
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:26.079
She wanted to portray herself as someone and even in

1027
00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:28.920
her book she was like, oh, I never cared about clothes,

1028
00:51:29.239 --> 00:51:31.519
but you did, because like when she was a model,

1029
00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:34.119
when she was a teenager, she was really happy that

1030
00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:37.199
she could buy some Gucci things or whatever. So, yeah,

1031
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:39.840
I think she wanted to portray herself as this you know,

1032
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:44.360
earthy mom, right, but she was drawn to who isn't

1033
00:51:44.440 --> 00:51:47.000
drawn to nice things? I love nice things. Yeah, do

1034
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:49.519
you think that Dan and Betty were too similar? They

1035
00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:51.519
had very similar backgrounds.

1036
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:55.800
I mean, I don't know. Maybe I think I think

1037
00:51:55.840 --> 00:51:58.800
it's good to be somewhat similar. I think we're fairly

1038
00:51:58.840 --> 00:51:59.960
similar in a lot of ways.

1039
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:02.920
I don't think we were. I think, I so, okay,

1040
00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:05.440
you're gonna like laugh at me, but in some ways

1041
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:07.519
I see myself and Betty because I'm kind of a

1042
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:09.960
feisty lady too. I'm never going to kill you in

1043
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:14.039
your sleep spoiler alert. But you know, I think we.

1044
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:16.239
Had somewhat similar background.

1045
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:18.360
I definitely in our early years I fought more with you,

1046
00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:21.480
and then you just never took you never took the bait,

1047
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:23.719
and so I kind of gave.

1048
00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:27.119
My strategy work. It was a long game.

1049
00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:30.400
But I mean, I'm still happy to fight, but you don't.

1050
00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:32.360
I mean, you don't get a big head, but you're

1051
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:34.000
a very good partner and not a lot of reasons

1052
00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:34.639
to fight with you.

1053
00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:39.480
I mean, they say that opposites attract, but I think marriages,

1054
00:52:39.599 --> 00:52:41.400
I don't know, I'm not an expert, but to me,

1055
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:43.960
I would think marriages where the people are more similar

1056
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:47.199
have a better chance of working out them. I think

1057
00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:49.559
you know that their opposites.

1058
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:52.320
Yeah, because they both identified being Catholic, even though Dan

1059
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:54.639
wasn't very religious. I don't really think Betty was either,

1060
00:52:54.639 --> 00:52:58.199
but those you know, foundations of being Catholic were just

1061
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:02.119
in bred in them. They all also both like to fight.

1062
00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:04.320
You know, Dan was an attorney, and I think that

1063
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:06.960
they like to spar with each other. And I think

1064
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:08.480
they were both narcissistic.

1065
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:10.679
Okay, and that is that's probably not.

1066
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:15.039
A very bad combination, right, Yeah, Okay, One more question,

1067
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:18.000
this is this is a hard question. How do you

1068
00:53:18.039 --> 00:53:20.079
think We already talked about this a little bit, but

1069
00:53:20.119 --> 00:53:22.760
what's the best way to handle conflict in a marriage?

1070
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:24.960
I think just tight in your room and close the.

1071
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:29.599
Bee, scared of your wife.

1072
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.920
Just wait for it to pass and then no, I know,

1073
00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:36.360
I think it's obviously communication is really really.

1074
00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:39.239
Trying to take any angry or defensive try to listen

1075
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:39.920
to your partner.

1076
00:53:40.039 --> 00:53:42.039
Yes, I think for us, you know, I think that

1077
00:53:42.119 --> 00:53:44.440
has helped a lot with both of us, but probably

1078
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:49.119
me especially like is you know, remaining somewhat calm and

1079
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:53.360
not I don't know, not not escalating the anger in

1080
00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:55.719
the you know, if there's a fight going on or

1081
00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:56.400
something like that.

1082
00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:00.599
Yeah, I would say, really really listening when you're having

1083
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:03.400
a disagreement, whether it's with your partner or your kids

1084
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:06.119
or whoever. Just really try to hear where the other

1085
00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:09.280
person is coming from. You don't have to agree necessarily,

1086
00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:12.599
but really try to hear what they're saying, and you know,

1087
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:16.599
know what emotional state they're in, what emotion that you

1088
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:18.599
know is being evoked in them.

1089
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:20.239
Yeah, if that makes sense, it does.

1090
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.480
In nineteen sixty five, about twenty to twenty five percent

1091
00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:27.280
of marriages eventually ended in divorce. Divorce was less common

1092
00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.960
and more stigmatized. Today, roughly forty to forty five percent

1093
00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:34.519
of first marriages are estimated to end in divorce, though

1094
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:40.320
rates vary by factors such as education, age, and socioeconomic status.

1095
00:54:41.079 --> 00:54:43.840
How many second marriages do you think end in divorce?

1096
00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:46.400
So we said forty to forty five percent of marriages

1097
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:48.639
and in divorce today. What do you think it is

1098
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:49.599
for second marriages.

1099
00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:51.960
That's a good question. I almost think it might be

1100
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:55.880
more just because you get divorced once you find out, well,

1101
00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:58.159
ye know, they this doesn't work out, I can just

1102
00:54:58.599 --> 00:54:59.199
try again.

1103
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:03.000
So hard to go through, especially like the financial Yeah,

1104
00:55:03.239 --> 00:55:05.559
I guess maybe if you're on your second marriage, you're like,

1105
00:55:05.559 --> 00:55:08.400
we are not going to commingle our finances. That's probably

1106
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:09.880
one of the things that people learn.

1107
00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:12.719
And you're probably less likely to have kids together in

1108
00:55:12.760 --> 00:55:16.119
a second marriage. Yeah, I'm just saying less likely. I'm

1109
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:17.280
not saying it doesn't.

1110
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.039
Happen a lot of times though they people will have

1111
00:55:19.079 --> 00:55:21.599
one more child together. Yeah, what do you think you

1112
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:26.840
have to give a guess? Fifty sixty to sixty seven percent,

1113
00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:30.000
it's a huge amount of people to get divorced to

1114
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:32.079
the second marriage, third marriages.

1115
00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:35.000
I'm gonna it has to go down that.

1116
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:38.880
At that point, it came seventy seventy three percent. So yeah,

1117
00:55:38.920 --> 00:55:40.920
like I just I don't know if i'd even bother.

1118
00:55:41.039 --> 00:55:44.119
Wow, that's really shocking. I'm guessing you don't have the

1119
00:55:44.159 --> 00:55:48.199
stat for fourth marriages. At some point, it's got to

1120
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:48.599
go down.

1121
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:51.440
Gosh, I don't. I don't know, But like you know,

1122
00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:55.000
some people just keep going, yeah, yeah, how many times

1123
00:55:55.039 --> 00:55:56.880
have you been married? I don't think you've ever told

1124
00:55:56.880 --> 00:55:59.440
to say for just once. It's just once once is

1125
00:55:59.559 --> 00:56:09.639
enough and done. That's right, that's right, baby. So before

1126
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:11.960
we go, I just wanted to tell you something funny

1127
00:56:11.960 --> 00:56:14.639
that I did. We don't travel a ton, but we

1128
00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:17.679
travel enough and we're really boring, and when we travel

1129
00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:20.199
we still use our Netflix and who the accounts or

1130
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:24.360
whatever and the other day. So for years we've had

1131
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:27.280
there's four of us in our family, and like our

1132
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:29.880
initials are on me kind of like R T E G.

1133
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:33.800
And there there's been a Z there, which somehow we

1134
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:36.639
picked Z up years ago in an Airbnb and once

1135
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:40.280
in a while just peeking is watching and I don't know,

1136
00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:42.920
for whatever reason, I just let it, let it right.

1137
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:46.119
So we got back from our trip and so somehow

1138
00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:50.039
Karen is on there, there's a Karen. I'm like, Karen, no,

1139
00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:52.719
we are not, We're not. Z is like a family

1140
00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:55.880
member now, but we can't kick Karen out.

1141
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:59.679
Karen so harsh. I'm just curious, what did you see

1142
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:01.840
what car And was watching before you kicked her out.

1143
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:05.280
You know, I don't think I looked, but I saw

1144
00:57:05.559 --> 00:57:09.920
their age and I think that they were a little older,

1145
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:12.280
which I was kind of surprised, like older than me.

1146
00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:14.880
I mean, I'm so young, but you know, yeah, that's

1147
00:57:14.920 --> 00:57:16.880
not anyway. That just cracked me out that when we

1148
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:19.800
saw Karen, I'm like, Karen, not today, You're messing with

1149
00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:22.280
the wrong girl. Then I was like, I could have

1150
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:23.840
deleted Z, but I'm like, I'm.

1151
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:27.159
Just's been with us a long time. I never check

1152
00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:30.000
on Z to see if if Z is watching anything

1153
00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:31.480
or if they just logged in.

1154
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:33.199
Possible they could have just logged in.

1155
00:57:33.159 --> 00:57:34.800
One Yeah, it could have been just had an Airbnb

1156
00:57:35.000 --> 00:57:35.920
and then that was it.

1157
00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:38.800
Yeah, that's a good point because they probably can't log

1158
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:40.400
back in rather once they get home.

1159
00:57:40.480 --> 00:57:42.599
Don't seem a little weird though, if you are at

1160
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.719
an Airbnb and you see that there's a Hulu signed in,

1161
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:47.519
Like I could see, okay, I'm going to watch a show,

1162
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:50.159
but you create an account for yourself or create a.

1163
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:54.119
And I would just, like, you know, click on your account,

1164
00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:55.880
and I think we have done that before, which I

1165
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:57.519
always feel a little guilty about it. But it's like

1166
00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:00.400
it's such a pain to sign into Netflix or who

1167
00:58:00.559 --> 00:58:02.599
it really is from a new TV. So are you

1168
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:03.800
watching anything right now?

1169
00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:08.000
I am watching Breaking Bad? I am rewatching it.

1170
00:58:08.280 --> 00:58:09.639
You watched this is your second to go through?

1171
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:12.239
Yeah, I only watched it once. All the way through.

1172
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:15.119
I've seen you know, bits and pieces episodes here and there,

1173
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:17.719
but I decided to rewatch it because we so we

1174
00:58:17.760 --> 00:58:20.960
watched Better Call Saul after Breaking Bad, and I loved

1175
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:23.079
Better Call Saul. But one of the things I felt

1176
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:25.760
like I didn't pay enough attention during Breaking Bad because

1177
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:27.800
there were a lot of characters that were the same

1178
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:30.079
and I had forgotten who was who. And I thought,

1179
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:31.639
it's such a great show. I just want to watch

1180
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:33.960
it again. And then yeah, I'll probably watch Better Call

1181
00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:34.599
Saul again too.

1182
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:36.880
So nic said, you have pre time to watch shows.

1183
00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:40.159
I just like to work on the podcast. Yeah, except

1184
00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:42.000
when I'm the four hours.

1185
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:45.840
I know you're much more dedicated than I.

1186
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:48.039
And it is not at all true. I'm just teasing you.

1187
00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:51.119
This week was just tough. One of the reasons this

1188
00:58:51.159 --> 00:58:53.239
week has been tough is because our son is going

1189
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:55.559
back to college and I'm feeling I'm not going to cry.

1190
00:58:55.639 --> 00:58:56.400
You are going to cry.

1191
00:58:56.760 --> 00:58:58.599
I'm going to cry like when he leaves. But I'm

1192
00:58:58.639 --> 00:58:59.239
trying not to cry.

1193
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:00.800
Now you're going to try and cry in the next

1194
00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:04.519
five minutes. I mean, it's it has been an emotional week,

1195
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:05.559
especially for you, but.

1196
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:09.199
Well because Emma left recently too, and we've never had

1197
00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:10.360
an empty nest before.

1198
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:12.360
Right, whenever one of them has been gone on the

1199
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:14.440
other one school, the other one's been here or something.

1200
00:59:14.519 --> 00:59:17.840
So yeah, so I have I have an exciting announcement.

1201
00:59:18.320 --> 00:59:20.559
We're adopting. We're adopting a child.

1202
00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:24.119
That's what you said, you when you said earlier something

1203
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:26.559
about we have a new a new baby, a new baby.

1204
00:59:26.599 --> 00:59:28.039
I was like, Okay, what's going on.

1205
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:29.880
I got a message from the schools the other day,

1206
00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:34.880
like the foreign exchange program. They're looking for host parents,

1207
00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:37.800
and I was tempted really get into it. But I

1208
00:59:37.840 --> 00:59:41.360
was really tempted because we have we'll have three empty

1209
00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:45.719
bedrooms now and Darling son, we'll come home right and

1210
00:59:45.880 --> 00:59:48.119
you know, Emma's room is still available to her.

1211
00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:50.760
But you know, yeah, it's gonna be different. It's going

1212
00:59:50.800 --> 00:59:51.960
to be different, an adjustment.

1213
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:53.320
Yeah you scared.

1214
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:54.559
I'm terrified.

1215
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:57.960
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I don't say I

1216
00:59:57.960 --> 00:59:59.000
think it'll be fun.

1217
00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:02.519
But I it'll be. It'll be a new phase of life.

1218
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:04.039
You really seem nervous about it.

1219
01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:06.159
I don't think. No, I'm not really nervous about it.

1220
01:00:06.199 --> 01:00:08.199
I think it'll be I think it'll be great. And

1221
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:10.280
I know he's not going to be gone forever either.

1222
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:13.159
He's still in school, so it's not like a permanent thing.

1223
01:00:13.239 --> 01:00:17.000
When he does eventually move out for the last time.

1224
01:00:17.199 --> 01:00:20.000
Then you'll leave me and start with a new woman.

1225
01:00:20.199 --> 01:00:23.079
No, but that might be no family. That might be

1226
01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:27.159
more emotional or difficult for me than this is. Because

1227
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:29.519
I feel like this is sort of like it's you know,

1228
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:31.079
it'll be back in a few weeks.

1229
01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:33.559
It's weird to want your kids to stay forever.

1230
01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:34.559
No, totally.

1231
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:36.960
Yeah, I think I want them to have adventures, you know,

1232
01:00:37.119 --> 01:00:40.400
good lives and all those things. Yeah. Well, please send

1233
01:00:40.519 --> 01:00:43.440
us your thoughts and prayers as we embark upon this

1234
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:48.079
new adventure together. Thank you alone, just the two of us.

1235
01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:53.639
Thank you all so much for listening and making our

1236
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:56.880
lives better by supporting us on our podcast journey.

1237
01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.559
If you'd like to listen to parts two and three

1238
01:00:59.800 --> 01:01:02.079
of this episode right now, you can join us on

1239
01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:06.239
patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. We have one tier five

1240
01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:09.159
dollars a month. You get early ad free access, plus

1241
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:10.559
a monthly bonus.

1242
01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:12.320
Episode and if you want to send us one of

1243
01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:20.159
your children where a snack lmkpod Pobox one one one

1244
01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:23.000
Dexter Michigan four eight one three zero.

1245
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:27.440
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media,

1246
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:31.199
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1247
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:33.800
Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill

1248
01:01:33.800 --> 01:02:06.199
your husband.

1249
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:09.800
Accup to c.