Bianca and Larry Rudolph

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Hi. I'm Tina, and I'm
Rich. And if there's one thing we've

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learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that some days you'll feel like

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killing your wife, and some days
you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome

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to love, Mary Kill, Hi
Rich, Hi Tina. How are you?

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I'm doing pretty good. How are
you? I'm really good today.

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I'm just making some diva workplace demands
over here, and you complied. I'm

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winded from it though. Yeah.
I made you move my microphone. Yeah,

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and I think it's better good because
I usually have to like kind of

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lean over. So I have a
question for you, Okay, how often

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do you think of the Roman Empire? Uh? Not nearly as often as

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I think of the Replacements? You
haven't. I don't know why. It's

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just this thing that's going around on
social media, people asking men how often

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they do you ever think of it? No? I never do. The

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only reason I said the replacements too
is because I saw a Twitter post yesterday

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that said would you rather have a
man who thinks about the Roman Empire all

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the time or the Replacements all the
time? Which is my favorite biale?

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But I had no idea what it
was in reference too. I was like,

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what's that. I think the hypothesis
is that men think of the Roman

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Empire more than we're aware of,
like most men like Anderson Cooper was like,

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yeah, I think about it all
the time. Really, I never

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ever ever think about the same We're
on the same page, then, So

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we have a little bit of business
to take care of, and I'm going

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to have you handle it because you
handle our podcast hosting things. But we

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recently switched podcast hosts. Yes,
so we were using Podbean as our podcast

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provider, and it doesn't really matter
if you're listening. You can listen wherever.

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But we moved to spreaker as our
podcast host and basically the podcast host

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streams it out to all the different
platforms. It shouldn't really affect anything.

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So pod being our account is going
away, and by the time you listen

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to this, it will be gone. But if you are following us on

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pod Bean, it might you might
fall off. Yeah, we'll fall off.

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It's possible. I'm not sure,
to be honest, but I hope

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it doesn't have any impact. But
if it does, just find us on

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Apple Podcasts or Spotify or at least
pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts.

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Yeah, I thank you. That
was a minor bit of news of well.

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We and we also did launcher Patreon, So if you want to listen

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to the we did add ads and
if you want to listen to our episodes

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ad free, join us on Patreon. Go to patreon dot com slash Love

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Mary Kill. For five dollars a
month, you can listen to all our

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episodes comcial free and early two days
early, and we're throwing you know,

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at least one full episode a month
over there, and we're going to do

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some extra things too. We would
appreciate it. We have talked about our

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friends Pam and Amanda before at and
Mashed podcast. They do a great job

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talking about toxic family relationships. They
know I'm a big fan of toxic family

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relationships. I don't know if I'm
a big fan, but I have experienced

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that personally. But they do a
nice job. They do a great job,

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and we're gonna we're doing a little
ad promo swap with them. So

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here's a word from Amanda and Pam. Hey true crime fans, I'm Amanda

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and I'm her mom Pam, and
we are inviting you to listen to our

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podcast and mashed. We dive deep
to give you fresh takes on scale relationships.

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Join us every Monday for an audio
journey covering the darker side of family

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dynamics. Our episodes are around thirty
minutes. We get right into it.

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We will guide you through intriguing,
lesser known cases and famous crime stories involving

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murder, deceits, and the entangled
family members who commit these crimes together or

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against each other. Check us out
wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts,

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and remember some of the most poisonous
people come disguised as family sounds. Intriguing

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was a little bit, but they're
great. Give them a listen. I

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just wanted to give a quick shout
out to what I'm wearing. If this

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isn't sponsored, it's not an ad. I just really like to share what

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I find something I really love.
And I'm wearing these wide legged cropped sweatpants

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and hoodie from Quinn's. You've probably
seen them on social media and I've kind

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of been wanting to order from them
for a while, and so I did

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they have really the stuff that I
ordered was really nice. I ordered,

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uh, like a cashmere cardigan,
a cotton sweater and this like sweat matching

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set, sweatsuit and these earrings actually
that you can't see. Just really there's

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stuff is all really nice, better
quality than I was expecting. I've only

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watched this once, but it's I
really like it a lot. But anyway,

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so if I've been really happy with
everything I ordered and everything, there's

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a three hundred and sixty five day
return policy and it just seems like a

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really that's a whole year. It's
a whole year, and I think it's

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no questions asked, but I can't
guarantee that. But everything I ordered I

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was really happy with. So and
the prices are it's not cheap, It's

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not like Shean or however you say
that one ladies will know what I'm talking

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about. You don't know what I'm
talking about. But I think the quality

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is really good for the price.
And yeah, so check it out and

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if you have any questions, DM
me and I will tell you. I

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think everything that I bought ran trew
to size and I was super excited.

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Cool looks size. They're just so
comfy. These pants are amazing. They're

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really comfortable. Like if I had
to choose between if the house was on

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fire, if I had to choose
between my viewery jaggers or these. I'd

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probably choose the viewery jaggers, but
I really like these a lot. I

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was afraid you were going to say, like between that and the cats or

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me or something like that. Well, you guys would come first, of

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course. Good Ton, Okay,
I'm sorry, this is this is going

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long, but you you were kind
and got a snack this morning for well,

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it's apple cider season, and so
I ran out this morning to our

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local cider mill, which is the
Dexter Cider Mill, and it's the oldest

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continuously operating cider mill in Michigan.
I can't remember when it was. It's

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been around for like, I don't
one hundred and fifty years or something.

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I'm not sure if that sounds about
right. Yeah, but I picked up

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some cinnamon donuts. You're nervous when
you walked to that old building that I

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was going to fall on you a
little bit. I had to bring the

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checkbook because they don't take credit cards. But I brought home some cinnamon donuts

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and some apple strudle and some apple
cider. I didn't know they had apple

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strudle. I didn't either. I
don't know if I like apple strudle or

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not, but I thought, well, give it a try. Who wouldn't

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like apples? Turtle? I don't
know, get weirdo, I don't know.

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It's very possible that one of the
don't nuts didn't make it home.

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What what were they fresh? Like
they had just come out of fire.

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Yeah that's hard to resist. Yeah, yeah, so we should take a

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quick break and have a taste.
Well that was delicious. Thank you so

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much for waking up early and running
over there and getting that. Because that

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place gets nuts. Yeah, I
think hundreds of people in line for donuts

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and cider. But it's great.
It's so good. Yeah, super good,

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A little a little taste of our
small hometown. Yeah. I'm not

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the biggest cider fan in the world, but this is really good. What's

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really good is a cider slushy.
Maybe we could we could mix that up

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with we've had that before, like
apples. Yeah, what do you call

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yeah, apple orchards and cider mills. Yeah, that's that's good stuff.

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It is. Okay, So today's
episode involves a dentist. I know that,

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and I'm dreading it. You're dreading
it because I'm in the middle of

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a bunch of dental stuff. Yeah, you have someone for chin a dental

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history, and we have very different
takes on the dentist. I love going

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to the dentist because I you know, I'm a clean freak. Not that

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you're not, but you know,
I've loved the feeling of having to clean

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off. Actually, I think some
people in my dentist office might listen to

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this podcast, so shout out to
Dexter Dental Studio and doctor Sophia Cornish's who

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I see and I adore, and
she doesn't I mean, she's not scary

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at all, and she's very ethical, not like the dentist that we're going

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to talk about today. All Right, I can't wait to hear about it.

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Bianca Rude alf fifty six and her
husband Larry sixty one, a successful

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dentist, were hunters, specifically big
game hunters, traveling with the world to

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add to their trophies. Bianca died
in twenty sixteen and Zambia, after she'd

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been on safari hoping to add a
leopard to her collection. Larry said her

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fatal gunshot was self inflicted, but
a five year FBI investigation put that into

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question. So a few times in
this episode, I'm going to say trophies

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and trophies is just how you refer
to a big game kill, like a

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buffalo or a lion or catcha It
was love at first sight when Lawrence Larry

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Rudolph met Bianca Teresa Finisio in the
cafeteria at the University of Pittsburgh. Bianca

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was about five years younger than Larry. She was an undergraduate and he was

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a student at the dental school.
They were married in nineteen eighty two.

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When Larry graduated, he joined a
dental practice in Pittsburgh. A few years

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later, he was accused by his
partners of embezzling money and was kicked out

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of the practice. Larry filed a
lawsuit for defamation and damages that was later

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settled. He opened a new practice
three Rivers Dental, across the street from

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his former partners. One of them
said Larry is quote vindictive and vengeful,

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but he's a charmer and he's a
good businessman. Larry's new practice was very

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successful, and he eventually opened three
more offices in the Pittsburgh area. Larry

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was known for his many TV commercials, which made his patients feel more comfortable

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and trusting of him like they were
seeing an old friend during their appointments.

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Hi, I'm doctor Larry Rudolph as
the area's first sedation dentist. I've been

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providing countless smiles with trusted care for
over thirty years. I really do understand

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your fears about going to the dentist. If you're just a little nervous,

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you can offer laughing gas, or
if you prefer, like many of our

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patients, you can have all your
donal work done in one visit. Why

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you sleep, no sites, no
sounds, no fear? Find out why

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so many satisfied smiles or grace going
to the Dentistit you never been so easy

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at three rivers down grop sedation dentist. I like the sound of that.

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He sounds like a great guy,
doesn't he He's not what I can't believe

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it. You already kind of talked
about He talked about this in his commercial.

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But and if you're just has commercials
that run all the time on TV,

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I think I'd be a little wary
of them too, A little too

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desperate. Not desperate, but he's
got a lot of money to spend.

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He specialized in sedation dentist offering patients
with dental anxiety, nitrous oxide, oral

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conscious sedation, or intravenious sedation.
His motto of three rivers dental is no

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sights, no sounds, no fears, which isn't a bad idea. Yeah,

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but as a woman like I never
want to be put under. It

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would make me nervous, especially because
Larry is well, like I said,

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not a nice man. Bianca worked
at the practice until her children were born,

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Anna Bianca and Julian Anna Bianca.
Is that two people are one person.

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Anna Bianca is her name, Okay, I think from now on I

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referred to her just as Anna,
but it is Anna Bianca is like a

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lot of people called her Anna Bianca. Some people called her Anna, okay.

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People who knew Bianca described her as
kind, generous, a wonderful mother

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and friend. Anna Bianca took after
her father and went to dental school.

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She now works at the practice her
father started, and Julian is an attorney

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in Florida. I want to say
that Bianca sounds like a lovely woman,

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but sadly it was the Larry Show
and normally we like to talk about our

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victim a lot, and he could
not find hardly any information about being unctable.

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You know, it was bummed out. The Rudolphs were married for thirty

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four years, but Larry was less
than a perfect husband. He had been

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having an affair with a woman named
Laurie mill Iron for fifteen to twenty years.

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It's not clear when the affair started. They met in two thousand and

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three when Laurie began working at Larry's
Three reversidental practice as a hygienist, but

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she was promoted to an office manager
of sorts. No one knew her exact

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job title, just that she had
a lot of control over how the office

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was run. Larry and Laurie often
arrived Andy parted the office together. Their

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affair was not a well kept secret. They traveled together, taking trips all

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over the world Paris, New Zealand, and Africa. They were on vacation

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together as many as sixty five days
each year between two thousand and four and

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two thousand nine. Art records show, Wow, I guess he was doing

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okay. Mary did very well for
himself. Isn't that crazy? And this

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is his girlfriend that he and He
also traveled with his wife extensively. Laurie

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got tired of waiting for Larry and
gave him an ultimatum, get rid of

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your wife and the dental practice,
or she was done with him. Larry

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liked to present himself as a mister
nice guy, but behind the scenes he

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was often quick tempered and unpleasant to
work for, sometimes yelling and throwing things

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at his employees when he was in
one of his follow moods. His employees

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referred to it as having a Rudolph. So. I didn't talk about this

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on the opening, but I worked
for a dentist when I first moved here

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to Michigan. I was going to
school at the time, but I was

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also working at the dentist office and
they were going to train me to be

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a dental assistant on the job,
and I did have like in the back

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of my hat, I was like, well, maybe I would want to

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go into hygiene, but I never
did. And it was actually kind of

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a horrible experience because the dentist wasn't
very nice. He didn't have tantrums,

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he just wasn't very kind to his
patience. And I actually ended up walking

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off the job, which isn't like
me. But one time, do you

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remember the story someone was having a
root canal and I could tell that they

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weren't nest nestles sized enough and they
were real uncomfortable and in pain, and

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the dentists kept working on them,
and it was really, I know,

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I shouldn't say this in front of
you, is thinking it might have to

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have a root canal this year.
But yeah, he wasn't a nice guy.

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I just yeah, I remember some
of the stories you would tell me

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from that time, and it was
he was an old army dentist. So

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he wasn't like I didn't believe in
all that. Yeah, I meanbe he

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had his moments, but he also
he was probably like forty five ish and

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he was dating this really lovely young
woman who was probably like twenty two.

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He just gave me the Larry's practice
took in a lot of cash, and

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he advised employees to never put it
on the books. The cash would be

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placed in a safe and Larry would
just hand it over to Laurie. Her

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bake statements revealed nearly two hundred and
forty thousand dollars in cash deposits between twenty

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fourteen and twenty sixteen, and Larry
also helped Laurie pay for her increasingly nice

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her homes and also helped with her
kids college tuitions. Who paid for the

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dentist in cash even I mean some
people don't have a credit card and they

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just prefer to live their life in
cash. But it was emphasized that,

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you know, there was a lot
of cash. In twenty twelve, the

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Rudolph's relocated from Pennsylvania to Arizona,
where their daughter was in college. They

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moved to a suburb of Phoenix called
Paradise Valley, which is one of the

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wealthiest areas in Arizona. Larry didn't
close his practice in Pennsylvania. He commuted

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between the two states. It's almost
like he wanted to get Bianca out of

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his affair. I mean, hair, I had to work on that one.

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Larry and Bianca's favorite pastime was big
game hunting. They were both very

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experienced hunters. Over the years,
they killed leopards, ten lions, a

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polar bear, an elephant, and
a white rhino, among others. Can

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you I'm not no, I get
I like hunting. I get it.

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How many you need to kill?
Yeah? Big game hunting is just purely

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for like sport and for trophies and
rich white Americans. Basically, a lot

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of dentists. Larry learned to hunt
with his dad in rural Pennsylvania when he

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was a young boy. Bianca didn't
hunt until she met Larry, but quickly

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picked it up and became a very
skilled hunter. She loved hunting and sometimes

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went on trips without Larry. She
was known to kill some large animals with

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a single shot. Larry and Bianca
had both won several top hunting awards.

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Larry strived to win the weather Be
Award, called the Nobel Prize of hunting.

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To win, the hunter must acquire
carcasses from almost every continent. But

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it wasn't just hunting skills that won
the award. Ethics and integrity counted for

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fifteen percent of the award. Larry
was given the award in two thousand and

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nine. So I just want to
stay here. I think, you know,

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Larry obviously has a lot of money, and I think Larry there was

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never a problem that Larry couldn't get
out of or something like Larry used his

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money really to pride people. Or
I believe that it's probably possible that think

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he paid somebody off to win the
coveted weather Be Award. I believe so,

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but I have no data to back
that up. The Rudolphs are members

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of the Safari Club International or SEI, since nineteen eighty six. Hello,

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my name is doctor Larry Rudolph,
and I'm a candidate for President elect of

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Safari Club. Soon we all meet
in Washington, DC to decide who are

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elected leaders will be for the next
year. I wanted you to know more

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about me in some of my ideas
for the future of our organization prior to

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the election. Police take the opportunity
to contact me personally to discuss any questions

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you may have. I've been active
in SCI for twenty three years and currently

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I'm serving as vice president of the
Executive Committee. I am the owner of

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a large healthcare business, consulting,
and franchise company. My business experience has

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included human resources, finance, real
estate, marketing, contract law, and

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many other areas. It's a very
professional sounding commercial. He knew how to

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market himself. I love that music
in the backgrounds epic movie music or something

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00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:26.000
so. SEI is a fifty thousand
member conservation and hunting advocacy group. In

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two thousand and nine, Larry did
become president, but in twenty twelve he

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was kicked out of the club for
adultery, not presenting an image of morality,

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and using his title to seduce women. SCI also stripped him of his

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hunting awards. Larry was not one
to let things go easily. He filed

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a defamation lawsuit against SCI. The
case dragged on for years. Both Larry

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and Bianca gave depositions in the lawsuit. Bianca was asked under oath if she

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knew that he was having a long
term affair with Laurie, and she said

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no. She also testified that her
marriage was a happy one. Larry was

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a known womanizer. Laurie wasn't his
only discretion. He was known to have

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affairs on his affairs. A colleague
once asked him why he was so often

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unfaithful to his wife, and Larry
replied it was as fun as a roller

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coaster. After Larry was kicked out
of SCI, he became president of another

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hunting group, the Weatherbee Foundation.
The Rudolphs were both season hunters and knew

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how to handle guns safely. I
can't say that enough they knew what they

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were doing. Okay that they both
had collected many trophies over the years,

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but Bianca had not yet added a
leopard to her collection. In October of

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twenty sixteen, the Rudolphs went on
a trip to one of their favorite spots,

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the Kofuey National Park in Zambia.
Cheetahs, hippos, lions, rare,

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antelopes, and leopards rome. They
traveled to Kofui several times each year.

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Kofuy is an exceptionally large park.
It's about the size of New Jersey.

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The park is a wildlife refuge,
but hunting as loud in some areas.

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The Rudolphs loved hunting and Kofui so
much they built their own ca abbin

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in the park. The sole purpose
of this trip was for Bianca to add

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a leopard to her collection. They
obtained one permit during this trip in Bianca's

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name for a leopard. Larry didn't
plan on hunting, he was there to

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support Bianca. The trip was scheduled
between September twenty seventh and in October eleventh.

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The Rudolphs brought two weapons with them, a Remington three fifty seven rifle

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and a Browning twelve gage shotgun,
a somewhat rare gun. Their trip guides

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recalled that Larry and Bianca were in
good spirits and seemed happy together during the

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trip. Bianca had found out about
Lorie recently, and this trip was meant

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00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:37.720
to patch things up and bring them
closer together. Larry told Bianca that it

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was over between he and Laurie and
he only wanted to be with her.

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The trip ended in disappointment for Bianca. The leopard remained elusive. She wasn't

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able to add one to her collection, but she did kill several other animals,

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including a zebra, during the trip. The night before they were scheduled

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to return home, Bianca emptied and
cleaned the guns. Spencer Cocoma, their

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tour guide, recalled seeing her complete
the task. A seasoned hunter would never

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leave their weapon loaded. You know
where this is going to put a pin

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in that too. The Rudolphs awakened
before dawn on October eleventh, twenty sixteen.

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They had an early flight. Their
nephew was getting married the upcoming weekend

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00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.799
and they didn't want to miss it. Bianca was looking forward to seeing her

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large Italian family, and she was
up packing. At five thirty am.

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Larry was in the bathroom when he
heard a gunshot. He burst out of

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the bathroom and saw Bianca lying on
the floor of the cabin with her arms

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over her head, bleeding profusely.
The bullet had ripped through her black t

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shirt and bra, leaving a six
to eight centimeter hole in her chest.

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The Rudolph's Safari guide Spencer Cocoma and
game scout Mark swain Pool also heard the

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00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.880
gunshot and tore into the cabin a
few seconds later. They were shocked to

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00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.039
see Bianca laying on the floor in
a growing pool of her own blood,

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00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:53.799
with a large, gaping wound on
the left side of her chest, straight

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through the heart. The twelve gage
browning lay a few feet from her body,

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partially in its leathers zippered case with
a hole in it from where the

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bullet had blasted through. According to
Mark and Spencer, Larry cried out and

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said, my wife committed suicide.
What am I going to tell my children?

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Larry was so distraught that he ran
to a nearby river and said he

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was going to jump in and commit
suicide like his wife. Eventually, he

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00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:22.119
calmed down, changed a story and
said that Bianca must have accidentally shot herself

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in the chest while putting the shotgun
away in the case. Larry claimed he

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attempted CPR but wasn't successful. Bianca
had died almost instantly. Later that night,

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Larry contacted the USNBC and Zambia and
he explained that he wanted to leave

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the country as soon as possible and
asked about expediting the cremation of Bianca's body.

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Larry aggressively questioned the embassy as to
who would have access to their investigation

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records. Two days later, the
consular chief received a call from the funeral

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home that Bianca's body was about to
be cremated, after Larry had pressured them

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that it'd be done quickly. The
consular chief intervened. He knew the US

321
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would not be happy about the fast
paced Larry was moving to have his wife

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interred. The consular chief went to
the funeral home and had pictures taken of

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Bianca's body. Unbeknownst to Larry,
the chief but had been in the military

324
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for over twenty years and was well
educated on guns and AMMO. Upon investigation

325
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:22.000
of the photos, he didn't think
that Bianca's wound looked as if it could

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00:23:22.039 --> 00:23:26.000
be from a self inflicted close range
shot. Nevertheless, Bianca's death was ruled

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an accident. In Zambia. It
is rumored that Larry put pressure on them

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00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:34.000
to declare Bianca's cause of death and
accident, and money likely changed hands.

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00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:40.640
On October fourteenth, Bianca was cremated. Larry insisted it was too challenging to

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transport her body back to the United
States. However, he had transported animals

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back to the US that were much
larger than his wife. In the arrest

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00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.680
alfidavit, the FBI said Larry frequently
arranged for the transportation of animals hunted on

333
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:57.319
his trips to be transported back to
the United States, a process that is

334
00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:03.640
often cumbersome, expensive and time consuming. So they're shipping hippos back to the

335
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:08.079
US, but not like you know, they've been taxi her meat but still

336
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:14.599
but still yeah. Larry failed to
contact any family members that Bianca was dead

337
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:18.480
and he had her remains cremated.
The consular chief had offered to call Anna

338
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.480
and Julian for Larry, but he
said no and told them Bianca wasn't their

339
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.759
birth mother. He explained that they
were his children from a previous marriage.

340
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:32.640
They were not. Meanwhile, back
in the US, Anna and Julian began

341
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:34.720
to began to worry about their mother
when they couldn't get a hold of her

342
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.000
for a few days. It was
unusual for her not to return their calls.

343
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Larry wasn't answering their messages either.
A week after Bianca's death, Larry

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finally notified his son. On the
way back to Arizona, while on a

345
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.640
layover in Johannesburg, he called Julian
and told him the horrible news. He

346
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told Julian that he needed him to
tell his sister. So Julian was a

347
00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.480
good brother. He flew to Pittsburgh
to tell Anna. They were both devastated.

348
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:04.160
Larry emailed his brother in law when
he was still in Zambia and told

349
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.240
him they wouldn't be at their nephew's
wedding, but he made it sound like

350
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they had decided to extend their trip, not that Bianca was dead. It's

351
00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:17.599
insane. It's insane that he took
a week to tell his kids. It

352
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:22.079
is it's I asked her daughter,
I'm like, if I went on a

353
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:26.480
trip and he didn't tell you I
was dead, theoretically speaking, she said

354
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:29.920
she'd be very angry. I could
understand that. Yeah, you would think

355
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:34.480
if nothing else, Larry wouldn't need
their consolation. Yeah, Yeah, it's

356
00:25:36.200 --> 00:25:38.440
when that happens in a burn.
If you have someone die in a foreign

357
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:42.559
country, there's it's very sad.
It's isolating, and there's a lot of

358
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:49.200
paperwork, and it's not an easy
process. Bianca's funeral was in Arizona two

359
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.880
weeks after her death. It was
put together quickly, and there was no

360
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.680
Catholic mass, which Bianco really would
have wanted. I didn't mention this early,

361
00:25:56.759 --> 00:26:00.720
but Bianca's very Catholic, she's religious. She doesn't believe in cremation,

362
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.480
she doesn't believe in divorce. Nice, Nice, Larry, We're gonna take

363
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:15.759
a quick break. We'll be right
back. We just left off at Bianca's

364
00:26:15.799 --> 00:26:22.279
funeral, and Larry is now back
in the United States. I didn't talk

365
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.160
about Bianca's cause of death. So
after she died, she was taken to

366
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:30.440
Lasaka, the capital of Zambia,
to be autopsied. She was rushed to

367
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.880
be cremated, but they did.
They did get her autopsied. Her cause

368
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.720
of death was hemorrhagic shock, a
macerated left side of the heart, a

369
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:42.839
perforated lung, and a gunshot injury. And Zambia no manner of death is

370
00:26:42.839 --> 00:26:47.640
put on the death certificate. So
what do you think the motive could be.

371
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:53.400
I think Larry wanted to get rid
of Bianca so he could do whatever

372
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:57.519
he wanted. He wanted to be
with Lori, right, Yeah. In

373
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:02.920
the year before her death, Larry
increase Bianca's life insurance benefits two over four

374
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.240
million dollars. He knew Bianca wouldn't
divorce him because of her religion, and

375
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.880
his girlfriend had given him an ultimatum. He needed to get rid of his

376
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:17.240
wife so he and Laurie could live
a life of luxury. Four million dollars.

377
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.000
That's a lot of money. It's
a lot of money. Yeah.

378
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.960
I don't know much about the insurance
industry, but they must not cross check

379
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:27.839
policies. And you would think if
someone increases your life insurance by that much

380
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:33.440
in a year, that right,
it's it's dangerous. And Larry like he

381
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.720
was doing really well financially anyway,
Like you know, if you don't want

382
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.279
to, if you don't want to
bring suspicion upon yourself, why do that,

383
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.519
Like it just doesn't make any sense. Well, like in the Corey

384
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.559
Richard's case, like how much money
is enough money? Agreed, It's just

385
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:55.880
a horrible thing. So let's talk
about the investigation. They aren't exactly Csimiami

386
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.160
Dan Foot, former US Ambassador to
Zambia, said of the police invest gay

387
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.119
in Bianca's death. The crime scene
was not fingerprinted and little other evidence was

388
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:08.759
taken. There were no formal interviews, gunshot residue testing, or light detector

389
00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:12.920
tests. Bianca's body was moved and
covered with a blanket after her death,

390
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:19.039
and the gun was also moved for
safety reasons. The scene was very compromised,

391
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:25.200
as was the evidence. Bianca's Browning
rifle, however, was turned over

392
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:29.200
to the police. Officials performed a
drop test on the gun, but they

393
00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:33.720
could not replicate a situation where the
gun misfired. Zambian police have few resources

394
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:38.319
and little training. They took Larry's
word and this is really odd to me,

395
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.680
but they returned the gun to Larry
before he left the country. Yeah,

396
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:47.400
that's very odd. Bianca's death was
ruled accidental by the Zambian officials two

397
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:49.519
days after she died. They concluded
that the gun had been loaded from the

398
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:55.000
previous day's hunting expedition and hadn't been
properly emptied. But remember one of the

399
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:59.279
hunting guides witnessed Bianca cleaning the gun
after returning from the safari and the last

400
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:02.799
day of the hunting, and she
knew what she was doing. She was

401
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.240
very well acquainted with the guns.
And I don't know if you're going to

402
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:08.599
talk about this, but to me, like it's a rifle, right,

403
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:12.640
so it's a long gun. I
don't know how you would accidentally shoot yourself

404
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:15.559
with a gun like that, Like, it just doesn't It seems to be

405
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:21.559
very hard to shoot yourself in the
chest where she was shot accidentally. Wife.

406
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:23.720
I think what Larry was trying to
say is she was leaning over the

407
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.960
gun kind of and the case was
tight, and she was like shoving it

408
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:32.359
in the case. Yeah. But
and I do talk about this in a

409
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:37.839
minute, but you never put a
gun in the case with the muzzle facing

410
00:29:37.880 --> 00:29:40.519
you. You always would, you
know, put it facing towards the ground.

411
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:44.200
Yeah. Larry claimed that he didn't
know why the gun was loaded or

412
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:48.000
who had loaded it. The guide
said that Larry was fully clothed in wearing

413
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.920
his shoes when he ran into the
cabin after hearing the gun shot. Larry

414
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:53.880
had told investigators he was in the
shower when the gun went off, but

415
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.240
later claimed he had been on the
toilet. He said he had the runs.

416
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:03.839
The accidental death declaration paved the way
for Larry to secure Bianca's exorbitant life

417
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:10.160
insurance policies. The FBI later sent
agents to Africa to interview the zambient hunting

418
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:14.920
guides, the coroner, and local
law enforcement who had deemed Bianca's death as

419
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.680
accidental. The FBI spent several months
in Africa conducting and investigation interviews. I

420
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.480
don't think I said this earlier,
but where they were located in the Kafui

421
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.799
National Park was about eighty miles to
the nearest law enforcement, so it took

422
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.240
them, you know, a long
time to get there to the scene.

423
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:38.799
Here are a few things that the
FBI determined during their lengthy investigation. There

424
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:44.039
was an absence of stippling in the
pictures of Bianca's gunshot wound that would be

425
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:48.599
present from a close range shot.
Do you know what stipling is? Yeah,

426
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.160
it's well, it's like, is
it gunpowder residues? Stifling is the

427
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:55.240
burning of either clothing or skin by
the gunpower which fires out of a gun

428
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.359
along with the bullet. The bullet
that shot Bianca was filled with either bird

429
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:03.400
shot or buckshot, and it's made
up of little pellets. When fired,

430
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.680
the pellets scatter, and if the
gun is shot close up, the pellets

431
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:12.519
would scatter less. The scattered pattern
of Bianca's wound was larger, which led

432
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:17.640
officials to determine that she was shot
from a longer distance, not close up.

433
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:22.400
Larry claimed not to know the make
and model of the shotgun and referred

434
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:26.359
to it as an antique. He
paid an unknown trash service to dump the

435
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.440
rare Browning shotgun used to kill Bianca
two years after she died, so the

436
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:34.279
FBI could not get the gun back. I'm not sure why this investigation took

437
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:37.119
so long. I mean, of
course they had to travel back and forth

438
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.519
to Africa, but five years was
a long time. Yeah, we talked

439
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.960
about this earlier. But in the
year before her death, Larry significantly increased

440
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.839
Bianca's life insurance coverage. A forensic
accountant found at the time of her death

441
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:56.920
the Rudolphs were worth between thirteen and
fifteen million dollars. The FBI tried to

442
00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:01.200
recreate the shooting with a similar rifle
and couldn't do it. The recreation led

443
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:05.839
them to conclude that Bianca had been
shot from six to eight feet away.

444
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:10.400
An experiment was conducted with twenty five
women inexperienced with guns putting it in a

445
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:16.160
case, and none of them did
it wrong. While investigating Larry's dental practice,

446
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:21.000
the FBI found that Larry committed fraud
on his patients. I know you're

447
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.599
shocked. Well, this is this
is something that we talk about a lot.

448
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:30.119
My dentist is very like I trust
her with my teeth in my life,

449
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:34.599
but sometimes just are untrustworthy and you
have to be careful and know that

450
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:38.680
if they're asking you to get expensive
procedures you really need them. Good point.

451
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:43.519
It's funny because my dentist said something
about needing a new lexus last time

452
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:47.279
I saw him. So but no, we do have different dentists and we

453
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:52.279
have different teeth. But you have
way more dental procedures than I do.

454
00:32:52.599 --> 00:33:00.720
So Larry performed unnecessary procedures or neglected
basic care, resulting in future costly procedures,

455
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:06.519
for example, a root canal if
a cavity was left untreated. Dentist

456
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:09.839
and employees alleged that Larry encouraged the
dentist in the practice to grind down problem

457
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.799
teeth to the point where a root
canal was the go to option not cool.

458
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.559
That's not cool, is it?
I can smell those donuts and it's

459
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:22.720
kind of No charges were ever filed, but the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office had

460
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:30.759
been investigating Larry for insurance fraud since
twenty eleven. Another questionable incident from Larry's

461
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:35.519
past happened in October of two thousand
and six. Larry had a run in

462
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:39.039
with a crocodile, but partially but
off his thumb in Zambia. He was

463
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:43.920
fishing alone and while taking a fish
off the hook, a crocodile jumped out

464
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:46.720
of the water and grabbed the fish
and part of his thumb. Holy crap.

465
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:51.680
Larry fell into the water and wrestled
with the crocodile until he was able

466
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.559
to fight it off and swim to
safety. Larry's like a superhero dentist.

467
00:33:54.599 --> 00:34:00.880
He's not a regular dentist. He
escaped with only a few scratches. Locals

468
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:05.640
questioned the veracity of Larry's story.
It is unlikely for a crocodile to abandon

469
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:08.599
its prey. After the incident,
he claimed that he could no longer practice

470
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:14.360
as a dentist. He filed an
insurance claim for disability after the attack and

471
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:20.320
received thirty thousand dollars a month,
collecting three point five million dollars over ten

472
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:24.480
years. Wow, Ron aren't an
attorney and acquaintance of Larry said quote,

473
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:30.119
I thought all along the thumb was
a fraud, and he was always misrepresenting

474
00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:34.760
his hunting experience to turn these delusions
of grandeur into political power and money.

475
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:38.239
He was an amoral snake oil salesman. End quote. Wow, but did

476
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.639
he actually lose part of his thumb? Like he must have lost it somehow,

477
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.519
right, he must have lost it
somehow. He questioned why Larry couldn't

478
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:51.320
practice dentistry when just the tip of
his non dominant thumb had been bitten off,

479
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:55.400
but Larry claimed nerve damage left an
unable to hold dental tools. After

480
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:00.480
the incident, Larry oversaw the operations
of his dental offices. I don't think

481
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:05.960
he practiced dentistry again. But yeah, I'm we're pretty sure he shot off

482
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:09.039
his thumb. It wasn't really been
enough by a crocodile, which, again,

483
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:12.599
that must have hurt like a son
of a gun. I would think

484
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.800
so. Yeah, if I happened
to die unexpectedly in a hunting accident,

485
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:20.719
which is highly unlikely, It would
be pretty unlikely because I don't hunt.

486
00:35:21.639 --> 00:35:25.559
I would think that you would mourn
my death for I mean, probably decades,

487
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.480
but at least at least a week, at least a solid two weeks.

488
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:31.639
Yeah, I would let our kids
know. Also, within at least

489
00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:36.159
a day or two, you would, You definitely would. Larry went to

490
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:40.079
Las Vegas three days after his wife's
funeral with another woman, not Laurie,

491
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:45.119
even not even Laurie. Bianca's friends
and family were immediately suspicious of Larry.

492
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:50.320
A friend of Bianca's contacted the FBI
and informed them of Larry's long term affair

493
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:53.000
and told him they needed to take
a closer look at him. This friend

494
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:57.880
told the FBI that Larry was verbally
abusive to Bianca and they had been fighting

495
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.719
frequently before the trip to Zambia.
Many of their fights were focused on finances,

496
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.639
which is like, didn't you guys
have enough? I mean, maybe

497
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.119
they over extended themselves, but it
just seemed like they had a lot of

498
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:14.559
money. Yeah. Their friend claimed
that Larry wouldn't divorce Bianca because he didn't

499
00:36:14.559 --> 00:36:16.639
want to part with half of his
money, and Bianco wouldn't divorce Larry because

500
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.400
she was Catholic and wanted her marriage
to work. Their friend was emphatic that

501
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:24.840
Bianco would never have wanted to be
cremated, which is like a sin in

502
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:30.199
the Catholic Church. I think.
A previous employee of the dental practice also

503
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:35.400
contacted the FBI with her suspicions about
Larry. Laury alluded to her that she

504
00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:40.960
had given Larry an ultimatum. An
FBI investigation ensued that took five long years.

505
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.159
Days after returning to the United States, Larry contacted the companies that carried

506
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:52.559
Bianca's life insurance policies. Larry had
purchased nine life insurance policies for his wife

507
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:57.159
from seven different companies. Do I
have life insurance? I mean through my

508
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:01.320
work? I think so. You
don't even know a good answer. I

509
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:06.320
should know, we should know that. Really. The first policy was purchased

510
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:10.639
in nineteen eighty seven. Larry filed
claims on the policies. He eventually received

511
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:15.199
four million, eight hundred seventy seven
thousand, seven hundred forty four dollars and

512
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:20.440
ninety three cents from the insurance companies. So that is a big wad of

513
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:23.639
cash. Is a big payout.
Yeah. About three months after Bianca's death,

514
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:28.880
Laurie moved into the Paradise Valley,
Arizona home that Larry had shared with

515
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:35.639
Bianca. Don't you dare, don't
you dare move your your girlfriend into my

516
00:37:35.719 --> 00:37:38.280
house in my bed. You would
never do that. I shouldn't even joke.

517
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.280
They no longer felt like they had
to hide their relationship. They were

518
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.719
thinking of moving into a new house
and had recently looked at a three point

519
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:50.800
five million dollar home in the same
subdivision, but decided to build their own

520
00:37:50.920 --> 00:37:55.760
dream home, complete with a two
story trophy room to display all of Larry's

521
00:37:55.800 --> 00:38:04.960
taxidermied animals. He must have had
so many of these animals. So if

522
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.400
you go to zilo dot com a
lot of times, like if a house

523
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:09.840
is sold, you can see pictures
of it. So I tried. I

524
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:13.679
looked up all his old addresses because
I just wanted to see if they were,

525
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:15.800
you know, what the trophy room
would look like. And I couldn't

526
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:21.719
really find a room like a trophy
room. But I did see one picture

527
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:25.840
that he had, like a rug
I think it was a bear rug,

528
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.400
and like a chair that looked like
it was made of cheetah, which is

529
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:36.400
I don't know If it was,
it was probably real cheetah ska. They

530
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:40.039
also built a new home in Pennsylvania
and purchased a condo in Cabo Saint Lucas.

531
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:45.559
Larry bought two luxury sport cars as
well, and Aston Martin dB eleven

532
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:51.639
and a Bentley Bataga. Really live
in the life there, Larry. In

533
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:55.159
twenty twenty, nearly four years after
Bianca's death, Larry and Laurie were overheard

534
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.960
arguing while having dinner at one of
their favorite restaurants, Stake forty four.

535
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:05.039
Pressure was mounting on them as the
FBI investigation intensified and they could feel the

536
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.039
heat. They liked to sit at
the bar, eating steaks and drinking martinis.

537
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:14.960
The bartender overheard them quarreling when Larry
said loudly, I killed my fucking

538
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:19.960
wife for you. Larry would later
say he actually said, the FBI thinks

539
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.000
I killed my fucking wife for you. Likely story. Yeah, So let's

540
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:28.800
go over the evidence against Larry.
The gun was partially in a zippard case.

541
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:31.440
The muzzle of the gun was sticking
out, and experienced gud Smith would

542
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:35.159
never put a gun into the case
this way. A gun always goes in

543
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:39.559
muzzle first and most gun cases are
shaped this way. They're narrow at the

544
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:44.000
bottom and whiter at the top.
And Bianca, we said this before,

545
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:49.079
definitely knew how to put a gun
into its case. And also I believe

546
00:39:49.119 --> 00:39:51.840
that, you know, they were
leaving at five thirty in the morning,

547
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.079
she would have been packed and ready
to especially the web. You know,

548
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.599
if maybe not all their clothing,
but the weapons. I would think they

549
00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:02.199
definitely would have cleaned it the night
before, as the tour guides or the

550
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:06.199
hunting guides said, she yeah,
she would have packed it right then.

551
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.639
I would think so too. My
next point is, Spencer, the tour

552
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:13.679
guide had seen Bianca cleaned the gun
the night before, wouldn't she have put

553
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:15.800
it in the case. Then a
drop test was performed on the gun that

554
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:21.519
killed Bianca, but it didn't mispire. Moreover, the FBI performed a reach

555
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:24.920
test and had twenty women of a
similar height to Bianca attempt to put the

556
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:29.440
same gun as Bianca into a case
and reached the trigger, and none of

557
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:32.920
them came close. The barrel of
the gun was too long. Bianca's friends

558
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:36.920
and family said that she did not
want to be cremated because she was a

559
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:39.719
devout Catholic. There is one point
that he didn't talk about that. I

560
00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:46.440
read that in the will it said
that she wanted to be cremated. But

561
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:50.280
she might not have read the terms
of the will. Oh you think he

562
00:40:50.320 --> 00:40:52.440
maybe you just had the will down
and said, oh, just sign.

563
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:58.000
Yeah. I mean we'd signed a
will and we did not read every paragraph.

564
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.440
I think they went over it with
us briefly. But you know,

565
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.039
I can imagine Bianca probably had a
lot of documents put in front of her

566
00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:07.559
that she signed. Larry once asked
a man who worked in one of his

567
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:13.679
offices if he had any relatives in
Mexico that would make someone disappear for twenty

568
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:19.119
five thousand dollars. Larry never had
a problem that he couldn't buy or bribe

569
00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:25.159
his way out of. See the
exculpatory evidence of Larry is there's not much.

570
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:30.639
Larry's kids support him, and it's
marginally possible that a gun could have

571
00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:35.280
mispired when Bianca placed it in the
case. The owner manual for the gun

572
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:39.039
actually states that there is a chance
the gun could mispire. So we have

573
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:45.920
three possibilities. Larry killed Bianca,
Bianca killed herself, or the gun accidentally

574
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:51.880
went off. What do you think
I'm going with door number one. I

575
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:54.119
think it's pretty clear he did it
and he meant to do it. Yeah.

576
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:59.719
In December twenty twenty one, days
before Christmas, and arrest warrant was

577
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:04.079
issued for Larry Rudolph for the murder
of his wife and mail fraud for defrauding

578
00:42:04.119 --> 00:42:07.440
several insurance companies. He was arrested
after getting off a plane in Cabo San

579
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:13.519
Lucas. Larry and Laurie had planned
on celebrating Christmas in Mexico with her families,

580
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:16.480
but there would be no celebration for
Larry that year. He was denied

581
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:22.320
bail. He was indicted in Colorado
in January of twenty twenty two on federal

582
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:28.039
charges. The indictment was issued in
Colorado because of a jurisdictional issue. Most

583
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:32.239
of the life insurance companies were in
Colorado. In an attempt to obtain bail

584
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:37.079
for Larry, Anna and Julian signed
a naffidavit saying that they believed him to

585
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:39.800
be innocent and that he did not
pose a flight risk. They said that

586
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:44.880
keeping him in custody created a health
risk for doctor Rudolph because he has a

587
00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:51.079
pacemaker. He was not given bail. Laurie was also indicted on charges of

588
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:55.480
accessory after the fact, obstruction of
a federal grand jury, and multiple counts

589
00:42:55.480 --> 00:43:00.480
of perjury. It was kind of
shocked that she was charged. Judge allowed

590
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:04.119
Laurie to serve her time under house
arrest until her trial date, under the

591
00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:07.480
condition she would have no contact with
Larry. She had planned to continue working

592
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:12.519
for the dental practice, but she
was shocked when Julian larry Son fired her

593
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.679
and cut her off from all of
the bank accounts. Larry called her from

594
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:21.199
prison and she complained about She complained
about his kids. She said, these

595
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:23.599
kids don't deserve anything. They have
never worked like you and I have.

596
00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:30.880
So Anna is a dentist and Julian
is a lawyer. I've had some clips

597
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:35.000
from dayline and it was so she's
so so mean, real these clips,

598
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.239
but they were just a little they
were too hard to hear, so I

599
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:42.920
didn't include them. She's a she
seems like a vile woman. Good good

600
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:45.920
match for Larry, I guess,
I guess. So she was arrested for

601
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:50.559
violating the terms of her house arrest
by talking to Larry and forced to remain

602
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:54.239
in jail until the trial started.
Before the trial, David Marcus, Larry

603
00:43:54.320 --> 00:44:00.000
Rudolph's lawyer said, quote, now
more than five years later, the government

604
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.840
and is seeking to manufacture a case
against this well respected and law abiding dentist.

605
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:08.280
Doctor Rudolph looks forward to his trial
where he will demonstrate his innocence.

606
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:15.239
The FEDS brought charges without any real
evidence, no eye witnesses, no forensics,

607
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:20.079
no anything except for some speculation sprinkled
into a chasm of conjecture. End

608
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:24.320
quote, chasm of conjecture. The
three week trial began in Denver in July

609
00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:29.679
of twenty twenty two. Larry and
Laurie were tried at the same time and

610
00:44:29.719 --> 00:44:36.559
faced the same jury, which different
charges. Right Yeah. Laurie's attorneys were

611
00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:39.639
very unhappy about them being tried together. She was offered a plea deal to

612
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:45.239
testify against him, but she declined. Several Zambians were flown in for the

613
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:47.320
trial, including the coroner, the
camp guides who knew the Rudolph's well,

614
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:53.360
blood spatter experts, and experts in
shooting reconstruction spencer. The safari guide testified

615
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:58.880
that Bianca was very skilled at handling
her firearm. He also said that the

616
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:02.719
Rudolphs were a loving an affectionate couple. Larry was the last witness. He

617
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:07.239
took the stand in his own defense
and was grilled for over four hours and

618
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:12.760
emphatically stated that he did not kill
Bianca. He said they had a quote

619
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.480
don't ask, don't tell, open
marriage, and we're very happy. I

620
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:22.039
think Bianco I read about her having
one affair that we know of. He

621
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.800
claimed that he didn't call his children
from Zambia to tell them about their mother

622
00:45:25.159 --> 00:45:29.159
because he wanted to tell them in
person so that he could hug them when

623
00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:31.679
he told them, but he didn't
write, although he called his son from

624
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:36.719
the airport and flew home to Arizona, not Pittsburgh or floor and O where

625
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:40.599
his kids lived. So yeah,
just gross. When asked why he disposed

626
00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:43.800
of the gun that killed his wife, he said, quote, I'm not

627
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:46.760
a gun guy. No. Of
course, Anna and Julian were at the

628
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:52.639
trial every day to support their father. Bianca's brothers, Ralph and Vince Finizio

629
00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:57.760
were also there every day, and
during Larry's testimony, they could be heard

630
00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:04.440
audibly groaning. In closing statements,
Larry's attorney acknowledged that Larry was not likable,

631
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:10.639
the old likable likable defense this quote. This isn't about whether you like

632
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:14.960
Larry or not. I think he
probably did. It is not a guilty

633
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:19.119
verdict under the law. End quote. He reminded the jury that the theories

634
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:23.599
and gossip were not enough to convict
a man. Larry sixty eight was found

635
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:30.039
guilty of yes of killing a US
national in a foreign country, and mail

636
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:34.800
fraud for defrauding the insurance companies.
After the six men and six woman jury

637
00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:37.599
deliberated for about one and a half
days. After the verdict was read,

638
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:43.800
Larry turned and waved at Laurie before
leaving the courtroom. Here's a clip of

639
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:52.599
a heartbreaking call Anna had with Larry. Didn't call it up, such a

640
00:46:52.719 --> 00:47:02.039
sweetheart. I just wait for tred. I know, honey. I don't

641
00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:07.920
want to lose you either. I
don't regret. Why do you look more

642
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:15.280
or was he voted to it?
I didn't, honey, I didn't.

643
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:20.000
It just felt no way. She
was just my friend. I needed a

644
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:24.199
friend to have sex with. I
have a friend. I was ready for

645
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:29.280
you. I take it no way
to you come you to dad as the

646
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:34.039
following your foot. I'm so sorry, honey. I never wanted any of

647
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:40.880
this to happen they ever ever ever
you was our creamly maybe loose my dad,

648
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:45.480
remember, honey, we can't say
too much on his phone. Okay,

649
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:52.639
I'm just so broken heart with that
was heartbreaking. It Brianna, she

650
00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:57.400
just she just wants her parents.
Yeah, now she hasn't either parents.

651
00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:00.360
He just needed a friend to have
sex with a piece of garbage. He

652
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.760
was sentenced to life in prison in
August twenty three. He was said to

653
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:08.679
look frail and he does have a
heart condition. Larry will also serve a

654
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:15.400
concurrent sentence of twenty years for defrauding
multiple insurance companies and pay the four million,

655
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:19.119
eight hundred seventy seven seven hundred forty
four dollars and ninety three cents in

656
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.840
restitution, as well as a fine
of two million dollars, and relinquish another

657
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:29.800
eight million dollars in assets acquired after
Bianca's life insurance money or after he received

658
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:34.679
Bianca's life insurance money. During the
sentencing hearing, Bianca's brother, Vincent Finizio,

659
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:37.920
gave a statement and told Larry that
he would eventually quote die alone and

660
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:44.440
unmourned. Even Judas would be afraid
to be in your company and quote Julian

661
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:47.679
persuaded the judge that increasing the penalties
against his father punished him and his sister

662
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:52.360
by reducing their adheritance. Anna meanwhile, testified at Laurie's sentencing, and she

663
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:57.280
said, quote, Laurie, you
have taken my parents. Despite everything you

664
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:00.360
have done, you will never take
my soul. This might be difficult to

665
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:06.159
understand because you don't have one end
quote. Laurie mill Iron, sixty five,

666
00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:08.800
was found guilty of being an accessory
after the fact to murder, obstruction

667
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:14.320
of justice, and two counts of
perjury based on her testimony before a grand

668
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.000
jury, but was also found not
guilty on three other counts of perjury.

669
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:22.599
She was sentenced to seventeen years in
prison and ordered not to have any contact

670
00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:28.000
with Larry. The judge commented that
her sentence was lengthy because there was evidence

671
00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:31.320
that she had encouraged Larry to murder
Bianca and she had shown no remorse.

672
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:35.599
Wow, that's a pretty stiff sentence. Yeah, I'm a little surprised about

673
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.840
that. One US attorney, Cole
Finnigan, said, quote, this result

674
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:43.719
shows no matter how much money,
prestige, or power you have, you

675
00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:49.719
will be held accountable for your crimes. FBI Denver Special Agent in Charge Mark

676
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:53.000
Mitchellack said, quote, the fact
that justice arrived today is no accident.

677
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:58.320
It is part of a dedicated effort
by public servants committed to the cause of

678
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:01.639
justice. We are grateful to the
attorney's staff and investigators who made today's result

679
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:06.559
possible. The defendant in this case
thought he could murder his wife overseas and

680
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:08.960
get away with it. He was
wrong and will now be held accountable for

681
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:14.519
his actions thanks to the relentless pursuit
of justice by the dedicated men and women

682
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.760
of the FBI, DJ and the
family of Bianco Rudolph, who never lost

683
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:23.119
faith in the judicial system. Larry's
attorney said, we are extremely disappointed.

684
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:27.679
We believe in Larry and his children. Larry is innocent. He did not

685
00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:30.320
murder his wife. We are looking
forward to the appeal on this matter,

686
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:32.639
in which we have a number of
very promising issues. Sure you do.

687
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:39.000
They claim he had no financial motive
to kill his wife because his dental practice

688
00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:45.400
is worth over ten million dollars and
an appeal has been filed. No financial

689
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.679
motive for four million dollars in life
insurance. But yeah, well five really

690
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:52.679
it was almost five yeah, yeah, so that's the story of Larry and

691
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:58.320
Bianca Rudolph. I don't what a
piece of crap, right, I don't

692
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:02.079
like when he talked and some of
the tapes that we didn't play about how

693
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:06.519
he was a victim because he was
wealthy. They went after because he was

694
00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:09.360
wealthy. Oh yeah, that's what
they always did. Let's go after the

695
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:14.719
wealthy ones. So just a little
bit about dentists. And our son was

696
00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:16.000
trying to think of, like what
he wanted to go to college for.

697
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:19.559
I was like, be a dentist. He was like, dentists are really

698
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:22.519
unhappy. They have the highest suicide
rate. Right, they do not have

699
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:28.199
the highest suicide rate. Farmers,
fishermen, and forestry workers are at the

700
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:30.960
top of the list of professions that
are most likely to commit suicide. Dentists

701
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:35.880
actually are number twelve on the list, lumped in with other medical professionals.

702
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:38.440
But the study was the study I
found was from twenty twelve, so it's

703
00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:43.760
an older study. Being a dentist
is physically grueling. However, dentists have

704
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:46.400
more back, shoulder, and neck
issues than most white colored professions due to

705
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:50.719
the awkward way they have to position
their bodies. You can see As many

706
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:53.719
as ninety percent of dentists report some
sort of back pain. A lot of

707
00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:57.960
patients have anxiety about going to the
dentist, and that negative energy can be

708
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:01.599
draining for a dentist. Dental school
is very expensive, as is starting at

709
00:52:01.639 --> 00:52:07.920
dental practice. Dental equipment and procedures
are always improving, and staying up to

710
00:52:07.000 --> 00:52:12.320
date with equipment and training is expensive, challenging, and stressful. Dental care

711
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:15.280
is expensive for patients too, and
often people aren't able to pay for emergency

712
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:20.880
services, which puts dentists in a
difficult position. YEA, one time when

713
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:22.679
I worked at the dentist, this
was one of the worst things that I'd

714
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.280
ever seen. This guy came in. It was kind of like after hours,

715
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:29.880
and he was really in pain,
and I think because your teeth can

716
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:34.679
cause you a lot of pain.
And he was really drunk. And I

717
00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:37.559
think he was really drunk because he
was in so much pain. And I

718
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:39.760
think he drank because he wanted the
tooth extracted and he was just like to

719
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:43.199
shank it out. And I don't
think he had a lot of money,

720
00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:45.920
so you know, the dentist wasn't
very nice, but he really did just

721
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.840
like yank this drunk guy's tooth out. It was horrible to be a part

722
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:55.079
of twenty fifteen study found that dentists
have almost twice the rate of depression and

723
00:52:55.159 --> 00:53:00.800
anxiety as a general population. Many
dentists reported feelings of isolation along with mental

724
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:06.440
and physical exhaustion. The study revealed
that dentists are two point five times more

725
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:13.760
likely to commit suicide than the general
population, but middle aged men are the

726
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.880
most likely to commit suicide, and
a lot of dentists are middle aged men.

727
00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:21.519
My point is, next time you
see your dentists, give them a

728
00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:24.639
hawk, ask them how they're doing, Tell them you appreciate them. My

729
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:30.000
dentists seems like a pretty happy guy, Doctor Trayner. He always seems pretty

730
00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:32.719
happy and well in the fifty billboards
that I see around town, he looks

731
00:53:32.719 --> 00:53:37.400
really happy. But maybe that's do
people in your dentists practice know that?

732
00:53:37.239 --> 00:53:42.239
Not that I know of, but
yeah, but maybe that's just a front

733
00:53:42.280 --> 00:53:45.599
that he's putting on. Though.
Well, and yesterday I read a story

734
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:49.920
and I want to close every episode
now with don't Forget to Floss, because

735
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:53.440
I read a study about flossing and
dental health, and how we knew that

736
00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:59.280
it had has a lot to do
with Cardiac issues can be caused by dental

737
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:04.719
plaque and things like that. But
now they're seeing like Elzheimer's and dementia could

738
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:10.559
be not prevented, but maybe diminished
with better dental health. So floss brush,

739
00:54:10.679 --> 00:54:15.119
Yeah, use your mouthwash. I
wish I had started. I started

740
00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:19.280
flossing regularly probably eight nine years ago, and I wish that i'd started twenty

741
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:21.719
years ago. I'd like to see
that. I'd like totally. No,

742
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:28.280
it definitely need to see the receipts
dental Okay, all right, sure,

743
00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:31.159
I know, Okay. I just
wanted to talk about big game hunting for

744
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:36.480
a second. Big game hunting is
very controversial. Conservation to say that the

745
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:42.559
legal hunting in Africa pays for the
conservation of animals and reduces poaching. It

746
00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:46.719
also brings in huge tourism dollars to
African countries. Animal active to say it

747
00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:52.280
is unethical to hunt animals at all. South Africa has the biggest hunting industry

748
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:55.679
in the world. The big five
trophies are lions, elephants, white rhinos,

749
00:54:55.760 --> 00:55:00.679
leopards, and buffalo. The licenses
to hunt these animals ranged from can

750
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:04.199
you take a wild guess? Oh, gosh, I don't know, probably

751
00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:07.960
thousands of dollars. That's super expensive, from ten thousand to one hundred and

752
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.320
twenty five thousand dollars. I think
the right. The white rhino was the

753
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:16.360
most expensive to hunt some of these
large animals. Bait is used the corpse

754
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:21.000
of another animal, for example,
to hunt a leopard, and impala might

755
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:24.400
be used to entice them. Which
animal do you think is the most dangerous

756
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:29.039
to hunt? Oh, I don't
know. The rhinoceros, maybe the buffalo.

757
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:34.840
I surprised. I don't know why. In twenty fifteen, doctor Walter

758
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:38.599
J. Palmer, an American dentist
another dentist, killed Cecil, a beloved

759
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:43.639
lion in Zimbabwe. Yeah, Cecil
was a wild lion that was well known

760
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:47.519
to tourists and allowed people to take
his picture. He wasn't tame, but

761
00:55:47.840 --> 00:55:51.719
he was and he wasn't really friendly, but he just kind of, you

762
00:55:51.719 --> 00:55:55.079
know, walked around and seemed to
like people enjoyed him. And yeah,

763
00:55:55.679 --> 00:56:00.880
Palmer liked to bow hunt. He
shot Cecil with a bow and wounded him,

764
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:04.320
but it took several days for him
to hunt the lion down before killing

765
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.000
him with a gun. I know, that's so he beheaded him and left

766
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:13.639
his carcass to rot. Doctor Pamlo
was nearly run out of business. He

767
00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:16.679
was hounded by locals and the media
just really went after him. I remember

768
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:22.320
that. Yeah. Yeah, his
YELP rating is one point three. I

769
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.119
think that's just justice, you know, Yeah, yeah? Why is what

770
00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:29.679
is it with dentists and big game
hunting. I think dentists because they're depressed,

771
00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:30.840
that helps them. I mean I
don't think. I think a lot

772
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:36.000
of them, not doctor Sophia Cornish, but a lot of dentis have kind

773
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:37.119
of an ego, the good dentist
I worked for a head and ego for

774
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:42.119
sure. All right, So back
to Bianca and Larry just for a second,

775
00:56:42.480 --> 00:56:45.480
I mean, what are the odds
that Bianco would would shoot the guns

776
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:49.400
straight to her heart? Right?
Larry knew he only had one shot,

777
00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:52.119
yeah, and he took that one
shot obviously. He was, you know,

778
00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:54.840
good with a gun, and he
knew exactly where to shoot her.

779
00:56:55.960 --> 00:57:00.519
I think Larry chose to murder Bianca
and Mbia because he was aware that the

780
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:05.840
investigation would not be through and the
police weren't local. Oh. He probably

781
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:07.639
thought he could pay them off too, which maybe it was my next point

782
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:13.639
exactly. I also wanted to mention
Larry is not surprisingly a big fan of

783
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:16.519
Donald Trump, and he wanted a
place in the Trump cabinet as director of

784
00:57:16.599 --> 00:57:22.079
the US Fish and Wildlife Service,
and he also considered running for Congress.

785
00:57:22.559 --> 00:57:28.840
I believe those rats are dashed,
that is all. I have all good,

786
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.800
good job telling the story. I
think he's guilty as hell, yeah,

787
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:36.719
for sure, and he is.
One of the tapes of he and

788
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:43.320
Lorie, it's I think prisoners have
a lot more access to phones today than

789
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:45.719
and maybe they used to, because
it seems like he had a lot of

790
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:49.280
phone calls. But he talked to
Larry and I'm sorry, Lorie and said,

791
00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:51.719
you know, essentially I'm a dead
man. I'm going to die in

792
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:54.719
prison and I know that. Yeah, so he knows that, so rest

793
00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:59.039
in peace beyond. I'm so sorry
that your husband was a piece of garbage,

794
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:02.199
and yeah, took you away from
your children, who I think really

795
00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:06.760
miss her. And you know,
I am sure that there has to be

796
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:08.840
doubt in the back of their minds, I would hope. So they're dead,

797
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:10.960
yeah, I mean they're not dumb. Yeah, And they're adults,

798
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:15.360
they're not like little kids. But
but as always, it's the kids that

799
00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:19.159
you know suffer the most. They
lost both their parents and even though they're

800
00:58:19.159 --> 00:58:23.840
adults, that sucks for them.
Laurie being sentenced to seventeen years that surprised

801
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:28.480
me a little bit. I think
it surprised her too, but I believe

802
00:58:28.840 --> 00:58:30.320
there are a lot of text messages
and things like that, the kind of

803
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:34.480
show that she was complicit in it. Yeah, for my sources, I

804
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:39.840
watched there was I didn't watch it, stupid day Life. I listened to

805
00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:44.400
a podcast and there was a good
episode of forty eight Hours. I watched

806
00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:46.559
on the Case, and a really
good Rolling Stone article and a bunch of

807
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:52.760
other periodicals. For our sources,
you can check our show notes. Yes,

808
00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:57.239
I also looked into the cost of
taxidermy and the animal because I've thought

809
00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:00.440
that must be super expensive, and
I think they arranged from like two thousand

810
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:05.599
to as high as fifteen thousand.
And you can get just a head mounted,

811
00:59:05.960 --> 00:59:08.639
or you can do like the whole
the Holy animal, and you can

812
00:59:08.679 --> 00:59:12.679
get rugs made out of you know, the animals you hunt too. Yeah,

813
00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:15.679
you would have all that done in
Zambia, right, and then have

814
00:59:15.800 --> 00:59:20.159
the taxidermid animals shipped back. I
would assume that's how they do it.

815
00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:23.280
Yeah, yeah, but yeah,
I learned a lot more about hunting and

816
00:59:25.000 --> 00:59:29.559
yeah, but it was an interesting
case. Yeah, super interesting. What

817
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:32.039
a guy? Yeah, all right, so that's all I have. All

818
00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:35.840
Right, what are we going to
do with the rest of our day?

819
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:39.400
I don't know. I did a
case for Patreon yesterday, so I am

820
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:45.840
a little a couple of days off, probably won't but yeah. So today

821
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:49.079
is October two, which means we
have been podcasting for a whole year.

822
00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:52.920
One year and one Happy birthday.
Yeah, happy posy happy Yeah, happy

823
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:57.559
potroversary. I'll make you a cake
later if you want. Every week we've

824
00:59:57.559 --> 01:00:00.880
published an episode every Monday for a
whole year. I think that's what I'm

825
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:05.599
most proud of is it's not been
always easy. Yeah, yeah, I'm

826
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:08.199
really proud of us, and I'm
I'm so grateful for our listeners. We

827
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:12.559
see it all the time, but
you know, I'm really grateful for you.

828
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:15.000
Let make a tear up. I'm
grateful for you too. And we

829
01:00:15.000 --> 01:00:17.239
were going to do a special anniversary
episode, but I think we're just going

830
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:21.880
to throw a few questions that we're
going to bounce off each other right now,

831
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:24.320
you're not interested, Just tone out, have a good day. Talk

832
01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:30.480
to you later. Catch on the
flippity flip question for you, Is there

833
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:32.760
a case that has made like a
big impact on you that you can't get

834
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:37.960
out of your head? That really, gosh, that's a tough one because

835
01:00:37.079 --> 01:00:42.119
honestly, like all they all make
an impact on me, especially the ones.

836
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:45.280
Not that I don't like listen intently
when you do your cases, but

837
01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:50.760
but you know, you spend so
much time researching and reading and getting to

838
01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:53.599
know like the victims and things like
that, so it really you just get

839
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:58.360
absorbed in it, and I don't
gosh, that's a really good point what

840
01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:01.039
you just said, though, Like
my people, like my cases are like

841
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:05.039
I feel like I know them,
like it was you know, I've probably

842
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:07.599
spent two weeks with Larry, and
I'm like, I'm really glad. I'm

843
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:09.280
always so glad to say goodbye to
Larry, Like I don't need to think

844
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:12.800
about you anymore, La, or
You're out of my head. Some of

845
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:15.679
them stick with me a little more. Yeah, do you have one that

846
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:20.519
sticks with you particularly? Yeah?
Probably the It was one we did early

847
01:01:20.599 --> 01:01:22.719
on. It was a Shannon Starbuck
case and that one kind of sticks with

848
01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:27.760
me because I actually reached out to
the Spokane Police Department and got like a

849
01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:31.719
freedom of information. Actually I got
way more stuff that was like actual evidence

850
01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:35.760
that I had ever gotten for any
other case before, and it was just

851
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:38.320
really like it really made it more
real, I guess, And just it

852
01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:42.719
was such a Yeah, they're all
sad cases, but that one really sticks

853
01:01:42.760 --> 01:01:45.000
with me. One of them that
sticks with me. Also wasn't a case

854
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:49.480
early on, And if you haven't
listened to it, I know some I

855
01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:52.440
don't listen to any of our episodes. I I just can't make myself do

856
01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:57.519
it. But I hope it's not
too cringey to go back and listen to

857
01:01:57.559 --> 01:02:00.599
them. But the Sarah and Ryan
Woodmer case, I think about Sarah all

858
01:02:00.639 --> 01:02:07.119
the time, and I don't think
that Ryan killed her. So I hope

859
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:10.920
there is justice in that case someday. But obviously Chris, Chris and Shenan

860
01:02:12.079 --> 01:02:15.599
Watts. Yeah, that's just and
that one. It shocks me how many

861
01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:21.239
downloads that case continues to get on
a weekly basis. It's such a horrible

862
01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:24.119
it's a horrible story. Yeah,
yeah, and sadly like that guy just

863
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:27.800
too. Yeah, So I have
a question for you, which maybe it

864
01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:30.800
is related to that, But I'm
we talked about a lot of really bad

865
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:34.559
people, like horrible people. But
I'm curious who you who you just disliked

866
01:02:34.599 --> 01:02:37.840
the most, Who you just hate
it's every fiber of your being. I'm

867
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:39.400
going to give you a few.
But Chris Watts, obviously we already talked

868
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:44.639
about Barrymore for you because he's a
freeman and I know I know that he

869
01:02:44.719 --> 01:02:47.840
killed Susan Susanne. That's a relatively
recent one too. I mean, I

870
01:02:47.880 --> 01:02:51.639
hate a lot of them. Some
of them might have a little bit of

871
01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:55.800
sympathy for like Susan Polk. Oh, we talked. I don't want to

872
01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:59.400
get the name wrong, but I
think it was. Was it Nancy Howard?

873
01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:02.320
Was she the one your case?
She survived? That case sticks with

874
01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:07.920
me, Yeah, because she I
tear up thinking about her because she's you

875
01:03:07.920 --> 01:03:10.039
know, she survived and she went
through a lot, and you know,

876
01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:16.679
her story was really amazing. Yeah, what about you, Who's Bob Bob?

877
01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:20.800
Yeah, that guy was such a
piece of ship. And they're all

878
01:03:20.840 --> 01:03:23.639
really gross, like this guy,
like Larry, He's he's up there for

879
01:03:24.239 --> 01:03:29.400
Actually, the one I'm researching right
now which will record probably next or which

880
01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:32.159
will release probably next week. The
two people in this case are maybe the

881
01:03:32.159 --> 01:03:36.880
most horrible people I've ever read about, So you've got that to look forward

882
01:03:36.960 --> 01:03:42.320
to. Oh and then we have
I had Kennon Barbarabie people and they were

883
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:45.559
really horrible too. But yeah,
we had a year of horrible people,

884
01:03:45.719 --> 01:03:50.239
but we had a year of a
lot of great people to eating our Like,

885
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:52.840
talking to our listeners has just really
been great, Yeah, for sure.

886
01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:55.280
And some of the people we talked
about in our cases, Like I

887
01:03:55.320 --> 01:03:59.119
was just thinking about the Aaron Corwin
case, which we did a couple of

888
01:03:59.119 --> 01:04:03.159
months ago, Like the people that
searched for her in the desert of you

889
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:09.800
know, California and Arizona or whatever
for like weeks on end. Just stuff

890
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:14.480
like that is so moving to me
and just amazing that people, you know,

891
01:04:14.840 --> 01:04:16.760
are willing to do that. People
are most people are good people,

892
01:04:17.079 --> 01:04:21.880
and the same that always makes me
super emotional to the people that the advocates.

893
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:25.400
Yeah, and I hope we have
been able to advocate for victims a

894
01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:29.320
little bit. Yeah. Do you
have any takeaways about true crime in general

895
01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:33.199
after a year of completely immersing yourself
into it, Yeah, well, there's

896
01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:38.679
a lot of true crime out there. I'm honestly like shocked at will never

897
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:42.199
be out of if we could podcast
for a million years. There's cases I'm

898
01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:44.440
always surprised, Like I look things
up it's like, oh, I've never

899
01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:46.440
heard of this before, and there's
another and another and another. There's also

900
01:04:46.480 --> 01:04:49.199
a lot of true crime podcasts out
there, which we had no idea when

901
01:04:49.239 --> 01:04:51.679
we and we knew there were a
lot. It's so dumb that we didn't

902
01:04:51.679 --> 01:04:55.880
realize that they were literally like thousands
of one thousands. But it's been really

903
01:04:55.960 --> 01:04:58.960
like you probably have more to say
about this than me, but the true

904
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:02.119
crime podcasting community has been really great, like just getting to know some of

905
01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:05.960
these people and finding other people who
are, you know, doing a similar

906
01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:09.880
thing, and that's been kind of
cool. Yeah, there's you would think

907
01:05:09.880 --> 01:05:12.840
there would be more competition, but
most people have been like super great and

908
01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:17.800
supportive, and yeah, that's been
that's been really awesome too. A similar

909
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:21.400
question for you the wait I wanted
to say one of my biggest takeaways like

910
01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:27.039
of the crime world is the amount
of people that go missing is shocking to

911
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:30.559
me and I try to post about
them here and there, but it's there's

912
01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:35.000
so so many people that go missing
and they don't get like the Gabby Potito

913
01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:43.039
type searches that they deserve, and
that's really hard and I think I want

914
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:45.440
to try to like start featuring some
of them, but there's so many people

915
01:05:45.440 --> 01:05:51.079
that go missing, and it's for
a multitude of reasons and it's really heartbreaking.

916
01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:54.800
Yeah, it really is. And
there's there is just so many that

917
01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:58.920
it's I think it's hard to focus
on, you know, but it's maddening

918
01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:03.599
that some cases like the Gabby Potitoes
get so much attention, and there's just

919
01:06:03.639 --> 01:06:08.280
as many worthy people that don't get
the media attention that they design for sure.

920
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:10.760
All Right, So I was gonna
ask you about, like, in

921
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:14.519
this whole one year that we've been
doing this, what has been the most

922
01:06:14.559 --> 01:06:19.639
surprising to you just about you know, the overall experience. Well, I

923
01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:25.320
think I say this quite a bit, but the way that some people think

924
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:29.039
that it's okay to kill someone,
like someone can just take someone's life and

925
01:06:29.079 --> 01:06:34.800
just that just totally lack remorse or
emotion or empathy. But yeah, just

926
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:41.320
the people take someone's life, It
just blows my mind that someone has such

927
01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:46.400
a little regard for a loved one
and their own selfish needs, whether it

928
01:06:46.440 --> 01:06:49.079
be you know, an affair or
money or whatever it is. Yeah.

929
01:06:49.280 --> 01:06:54.880
And the insurance, the insurance world, Like we talked about that a little

930
01:06:54.920 --> 01:06:58.840
bit today, but it's just crazy
that you can get unlimited insurance on someone.

931
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:01.239
Yeah, and so many these cases
that seems to be a common thread

932
01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:04.079
that like, you know, take
out an insurance policy and then a month

933
01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:08.079
later they end up dead. Yeah. Do you have a favorite episode that

934
01:07:08.079 --> 01:07:12.440
we've recorded. It's hard to pick
one because they're all like our children,

935
01:07:12.599 --> 01:07:14.800
you know. We work so hard
on all of them. We do the

936
01:07:14.840 --> 01:07:18.920
one that that I've worked on last
the Ben Rennick and Linley Rennick case.

937
01:07:19.039 --> 01:07:23.840
I that was one of my favorites, partly because I was able to talk

938
01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:27.920
to the brother of the victim in
that case and it was just it added

939
01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.159
a whole other dimension of it did
and you did such a fabulous job on

940
01:07:30.199 --> 01:07:33.519
that. Thank you. Rebecca.
Is a Howe which is a case you

941
01:07:33.599 --> 01:07:39.519
did. That case is just one
so baffling. And similarly when I did

942
01:07:39.519 --> 01:07:43.800
the Ellen Greenberg case. Those two
cases are like just so head scratching.

943
01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:48.280
Yeah, But my favorite case might
be Lizzie Borden, just because I just

944
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:53.199
liked that I wasn't hurting anyone by
doing that, and the research was really

945
01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:56.559
just kind of fun to do.
There is something refreshing about doing a case

946
01:07:56.599 --> 01:07:59.800
that is that old that you don't
have to like worry about, you know,

947
01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:03.559
the victims or the relatives you know, still listening and things like that.

948
01:08:03.639 --> 01:08:06.119
Yeah, it's been a great year
and I'm so it has been really

949
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:10.760
and I'm just going to keep saying
this other my favorite part has been having

950
01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:14.199
a new project to work on with
you, because you are the best.

951
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:17.880
Oh, thanks, you're the best, and our listeners are also the best.

952
01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:23.560
Week really really really appreciate everybody who
listens, and especially in people who

953
01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:27.319
interact with us on social media or
email us. It's just so it's been

954
01:08:27.439 --> 01:08:30.760
really nice to hear from people and
get their reaction to what we're doing,

955
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:33.000
and it's just it's been awesome.
Yeah. I want to mention too,

956
01:08:33.039 --> 01:08:38.479
a lot of people have recommended cases
and I'm working on them, but I

957
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:41.560
only do one case. Yeah,
we have a lot more recommendations than we

958
01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:45.359
can get too. Unfortunately, sometimes
if we can't find enough information to fill

959
01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:49.119
an hour, then we can't really
do the case, so it has to

960
01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:54.439
be. That's unfortunately why we do
so many high profile cases is because that's

961
01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:58.600
where we can find, you know, the most amount of information. Yeah,

962
01:08:58.640 --> 01:09:01.920
so I wanted to ask you really
quickly about how you feel about making

963
01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:06.039
Alliance prediction last week. That didn't
really come to from you. No,

964
01:09:06.199 --> 01:09:10.079
if you listen to my prediction,
it was not about the game last week.

965
01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:14.399
It was about the season overall,
which I still feel very good about.

966
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:15.840
Oh, I thought you gave our
prediction on last week's game. I

967
01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:18.239
don't think so. I think I
basically predicted that they were going to go

968
01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:23.600
to the playoffs and they were going
to get to the NFC Championship game and

969
01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:28.520
then Luis. So I still stand
by that absolutely still could happen. Well,

970
01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:31.640
thanks everyone for a great year.
Yeah, thanks everyone, and follow

971
01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:35.520
us on social media or send us
an email at love Mary Kill at gmail

972
01:09:35.600 --> 01:09:39.399
dot com. We're always happy to
hear from you. And check out our

973
01:09:39.439 --> 01:09:44.439
patreon, Patreon dot com, slash
love Mary Kill. And I said earlier

974
01:09:44.960 --> 01:09:48.560
check out keens quince quince qu i
spelled, I didn't spell it, so

975
01:09:48.600 --> 01:09:53.479
it's qui nce dot com and I'd
get nothing out of that. But I

976
01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:56.520
think their stuff is pretty good quality
for the price. It's not cheap,

977
01:09:56.600 --> 01:09:59.399
but it's it's not expensive either.
Like I said, I think it's pretty

978
01:09:59.399 --> 01:10:03.640
good quality. And that's all we
have until next time. Don't kill your

979
01:10:03.640 --> 01:10:04.760
wife, don't kill your husband.