Bianca and Larry Rudolph

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hi Rich, Hi Tina. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. How are you? I'm really good today. I'm just making some diva workplace demands over here, and you complied. I'm winded from it though. Yeah. I made you move my microphone. Yeah, and I think it's better good because I usually have to like kind of lean over. So I have a question for you, Okay, how often do you think of the Roman Empire? Uh? Not nearly as often as I think of the Replacements? You haven't. I don't know why. It's just this thing that's going around on social media, people asking men how often they do you ever think of it? No? I never do. The only reason I said the replacements too is because I saw a Twitter post yesterday that said would you rather have a man who thinks about the Roman Empire all the time or the Replacements all the time? Which is my favorite biale?

1:19 But I had no idea what it was in reference too. I was like, what's that. I think the hypothesis is that men think of the Roman Empire more than we're aware of, like most men like Anderson Cooper was like, yeah, I think about it all the time. Really, I never ever ever think about the same We're on the same page, then, So we have a little bit of business to take care of, and I'm going to have you handle it because you handle our podcast hosting things. But we recently switched podcast hosts. Yes, so we were using Podbean as our podcast provider, and it doesn't really matter if you're listening. You can listen wherever. But we moved to spreaker as our podcast host and basically the podcast host streams it out to all the different platforms. It shouldn't really affect anything.

2:06 So pod being our account is going away, and by the time you listen to this, it will be gone. But if you are following us on pod Bean, it might you might fall off. Yeah, we'll fall off. It's possible. I'm not sure, to be honest, but I hope it doesn't have any impact. But if it does, just find us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or at least pretty much anywhere you listen to podcasts. Yeah, I thank you. That was a minor bit of news of well. We and we also did launcher Patreon, So if you want to listen to the we did add ads and if you want to listen to our episodes ad free, join us on Patreon. Go to patreon dot com slash Love Mary Kill. For five dollars a month, you can listen to all our episodes comcial free and early two days early, and we're throwing you know, at least one full episode a month over there, and we're going to do some extra things too. We would appreciate it. We have talked about our friends Pam and Amanda before at and Mashed podcast. They do a great job talking about toxic family relationships. They know I'm a big fan of toxic family relationships. I don't know if I'm a big fan, but I have experienced that personally. But they do a nice job. They do a great job, and we're gonna we're doing a little ad promo swap with them. So here's a word from Amanda and Pam. Hey true crime fans, I'm Amanda and I'm her mom Pam, and we are inviting you to listen to our podcast and mashed. We dive deep to give you fresh takes on scale relationships.

3:37 Join us every Monday for an audio journey covering the darker side of family dynamics. Our episodes are around thirty minutes. We get right into it. We will guide you through intriguing, lesser known cases and famous crime stories involving murder, deceits, and the entangled family members who commit these crimes together or against each other. Check us out wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, and remember some of the most poisonous people come disguised as family sounds. Intriguing was a little bit, but they're great. Give them a listen. I just wanted to give a quick shout out to what I'm wearing. If this isn't sponsored, it's not an ad. I just really like to share what I find something I really love. And I'm wearing these wide legged cropped sweatpants and hoodie from Quinn's. You've probably seen them on social media and I've kind of been wanting to order from them for a while, and so I did they have really the stuff that I ordered was really nice. I ordered, uh, like a cashmere cardigan, a cotton sweater and this like sweat matching set, sweatsuit and these earrings actually that you can't see. Just really there's stuff is all really nice, better quality than I was expecting. I've only watched this once, but it's I really like it a lot. But anyway, so if I've been really happy with everything I ordered and everything, there's

5:10 a three hundred and sixty five day return policy and it just seems like a really that's a whole year. It's a whole year, and I think it's no questions asked, but I can't guarantee that. But everything I ordered I was really happy with. So and the prices are it's not cheap, It's not like Shean or however you say that one ladies will know what I'm talking about. You don't know what I'm talking about. But I think the quality is really good for the price. And yeah, so check it out and if you have any questions, DM me and I will tell you. I think everything that I bought ran trew to size and I was super excited. Cool looks size. They're just so comfy. These pants are amazing. They're really comfortable. Like if I had to choose between if the house was on fire, if I had to choose between my viewery jaggers or these. I'd probably choose the viewery jaggers, but I really like these a lot. I was afraid you were going to say, like between that and the cats or me or something like that. Well, you guys would come first, of course. Good Ton, Okay, I'm sorry, this is this is going long, but you you were kind and got a snack this morning for well, it's apple cider season, and so I ran out this morning to our local cider mill, which is the Dexter Cider Mill, and it's the oldest continuously operating cider mill in Michigan. I can't remember when it was. It's been around for like, I don't one hundred and fifty years or something.

6:28 I'm not sure if that sounds about right. Yeah, but I picked up some cinnamon donuts. You're nervous when you walked to that old building that I was going to fall on you a little bit. I had to bring the checkbook because they don't take credit cards. But I brought home some cinnamon donuts and some apple strudle and some apple cider. I didn't know they had apple strudle. I didn't either. I don't know if I like apple strudle or not, but I thought, well, give it a try. Who wouldn't like apples? Turtle? I don't know, get weirdo, I don't know. It's very possible that one of the don't nuts didn't make it home. What what were they fresh? Like they had just come out of fire. Yeah that's hard to resist. Yeah, yeah, so we should take a quick break and have a taste. Well that was delicious. Thank you so much for waking up early and running over there and getting that. Because that place gets nuts. Yeah, I think hundreds of people in line for donuts and cider. But it's great. It's so good. Yeah, super good, A little a little taste of our small hometown. Yeah. I'm not the biggest cider fan in the world, but this is really good. What's really good is a cider slushy. Maybe we could we could mix that up with we've had that before, like apples. Yeah, what do you call yeah, apple orchards and cider mills. Yeah, that's that's good stuff.

7:45 It is. Okay, So today's episode involves a dentist. I know that, and I'm dreading it. You're dreading it because I'm in the middle of a bunch of dental stuff. Yeah, you have someone for chin a dental history, and we have very different takes on the dentist. I love going to the dentist because I you know, I'm a clean freak. Not that you're not, but you know, I've loved the feeling of having to clean off. Actually, I think some people in my dentist office might listen to this podcast, so shout out to Dexter Dental Studio and doctor Sophia Cornish's who I see and I adore, and she doesn't I mean, she's not scary at all, and she's very ethical, not like the dentist that we're going to talk about today. All Right, I can't wait to hear about it.

8:31 Bianca Rude alf fifty six and her husband Larry sixty one, a successful dentist, were hunters, specifically big game hunters, traveling with the world to add to their trophies. Bianca died in twenty sixteen and Zambia, after she'd been on safari hoping to add a leopard to her collection. Larry said her fatal gunshot was self inflicted, but a five year FBI investigation put that into question. So a few times in this episode, I'm going to say trophies and trophies is just how you refer to a big game kill, like a buffalo or a lion or catcha It was love at first sight when Lawrence Larry Rudolph met Bianca Teresa Finisio in the cafeteria at the University of Pittsburgh. Bianca was about five years younger than Larry. She was an undergraduate and he was a student at the dental school. They were married in nineteen eighty two.

9:24 When Larry graduated, he joined a dental practice in Pittsburgh. A few years later, he was accused by his partners of embezzling money and was kicked out of the practice. Larry filed a lawsuit for defamation and damages that was later settled. He opened a new practice three Rivers Dental, across the street from his former partners. One of them said Larry is quote vindictive and vengeful, but he's a charmer and he's a good businessman. Larry's new practice was very successful, and he eventually opened three more offices in the Pittsburgh area. Larry was known for his many TV commercials, which made his patients feel more comfortable and trusting of him like they were seeing an old friend during their appointments.

10:07 Hi, I'm doctor Larry Rudolph as the area's first sedation dentist. I've been providing countless smiles with trusted care for over thirty years. I really do understand your fears about going to the dentist. If you're just a little nervous, you can offer laughing gas, or if you prefer, like many of our patients, you can have all your donal work done in one visit. Why you sleep, no sites, no sounds, no fear? Find out why so many satisfied smiles or grace going to the Dentistit you never been so easy at three rivers down grop sedation dentist. I like the sound of that. He sounds like a great guy, doesn't he He's not what I can't believe it. You already kind of talked about He talked about this in his commercial. But and if you're just has commercials that run all the time on TV, I think I'd be a little wary of them too, A little too desperate. Not desperate, but he's got a lot of money to spend.

10:58 He specialized in sedation dentist offering patients with dental anxiety, nitrous oxide, oral conscious sedation, or intravenious sedation. His motto of three rivers dental is no sights, no sounds, no fears, which isn't a bad idea. Yeah, but as a woman like I never want to be put under. It would make me nervous, especially because Larry is well, like I said, not a nice man. Bianca worked at the practice until her children were born, Anna Bianca and Julian Anna Bianca. Is that two people are one person. Anna Bianca is her name, Okay, I think from now on I referred to her just as Anna, but it is Anna Bianca is like a lot of people called her Anna Bianca. Some people called her Anna, okay.

11:39 People who knew Bianca described her as kind, generous, a wonderful mother and friend. Anna Bianca took after her father and went to dental school. She now works at the practice her father started, and Julian is an attorney in Florida. I want to say that Bianca sounds like a lovely woman, but sadly it was the Larry Show and normally we like to talk about our victim a lot, and he could not find hardly any information about being unctable. You know, it was bummed out. The Rudolphs were married for thirty four years, but Larry was less than a perfect husband. He had been having an affair with a woman named Laurie mill Iron for fifteen to twenty years. It's not clear when the affair started. They met in two thousand and three when Laurie began working at Larry's Three reversidental practice as a hygienist, but she was promoted to an office manager of sorts. No one knew her exact job title, just that she had a lot of control over how the office was run. Larry and Laurie often arrived Andy parted the office together. Their affair was not a well kept secret. They traveled together, taking trips all over the world Paris, New Zealand, and Africa. They were on vacation together as many as sixty five days each year between two thousand and four and two thousand nine. Art records show, Wow, I guess he was doing okay. Mary did very well for himself. Isn't that crazy? And this is his girlfriend that he and He also traveled with his wife extensively. Laurie got tired of waiting for Larry and gave him an ultimatum, get rid of your wife and the dental practice, or she was done with him. Larry

13:13 liked to present himself as a mister nice guy, but behind the scenes he was often quick tempered and unpleasant to work for, sometimes yelling and throwing things at his employees when he was in one of his follow moods. His employees referred to it as having a Rudolph. So. I didn't talk about this on the opening, but I worked for a dentist when I first moved here to Michigan. I was going to school at the time, but I was also working at the dentist office and they were going to train me to be a dental assistant on the job, and I did have like in the back of my hat, I was like, well, maybe I would want to go into hygiene, but I never did. And it was actually kind of a horrible experience because the dentist wasn't very nice. He didn't have tantrums, he just wasn't very kind to his patience. And I actually ended up walking off the job, which isn't like me. But one time, do you remember the story someone was having a root canal and I could tell that they weren't nest nestles sized enough and they were real uncomfortable and in pain, and the dentists kept working on them, and it was really, I know, I shouldn't say this in front of you, is thinking it might have to have a root canal this year. But yeah, he wasn't a nice guy.

14:16 I just yeah, I remember some of the stories you would tell me from that time, and it was he was an old army dentist. So he wasn't like I didn't believe in all that. Yeah, I meanbe he had his moments, but he also he was probably like forty five ish and he was dating this really lovely young woman who was probably like twenty two. He just gave me the Larry's practice took in a lot of cash, and he advised employees to never put it on the books. The cash would be placed in a safe and Larry would just hand it over to Laurie. Her bake statements revealed nearly two hundred and forty thousand dollars in cash deposits between twenty fourteen and twenty sixteen, and Larry also helped Laurie pay for her increasingly nice her homes and also helped with her kids college tuitions. Who paid for the dentist in cash even I mean some people don't have a credit card and they just prefer to live their life in cash. But it was emphasized that, you know, there was a lot of cash. In twenty twelve, the Rudolph's relocated from Pennsylvania to Arizona, where their daughter was in college. They moved to a suburb of Phoenix called Paradise Valley, which is one of the wealthiest areas in Arizona. Larry didn't close his practice in Pennsylvania. He commuted between the two states. It's almost like he wanted to get Bianca out of his affair. I mean, hair, I had to work on that one.

15:39 Larry and Bianca's favorite pastime was big game hunting. They were both very experienced hunters. Over the years, they killed leopards, ten lions, a polar bear, an elephant, and a white rhino, among others. Can you I'm not no, I get I like hunting. I get it. How many you need to kill? Yeah? Big game hunting is just purely for like sport and for trophies and rich white Americans. Basically, a lot of dentists. Larry learned to hunt with his dad in rural Pennsylvania when he was a young boy. Bianca didn't hunt until she met Larry, but quickly picked it up and became a very skilled hunter. She loved hunting and sometimes went on trips without Larry. She was known to kill some large animals with a single shot. Larry and Bianca had both won several top hunting awards.

16:30 Larry strived to win the weather Be Award, called the Nobel Prize of hunting. To win, the hunter must acquire carcasses from almost every continent. But it wasn't just hunting skills that won the award. Ethics and integrity counted for fifteen percent of the award. Larry was given the award in two thousand and nine. So I just want to stay here. I think, you know, Larry obviously has a lot of money, and I think Larry there was never a problem that Larry couldn't get out of or something like Larry used his money really to pride people. Or I believe that it's probably possible that think he paid somebody off to win the coveted weather Be Award. I believe so, but I have no data to back that up. The Rudolphs are members of the Safari Club International or SEI, since nineteen eighty six. Hello, my name is doctor Larry Rudolph, and I'm a candidate for President elect of Safari Club. Soon we all meet in Washington, DC to decide who are elected leaders will be for the next year. I wanted you to know more about me in some of my ideas for the future of our organization prior to the election. Police take the opportunity to contact me personally to discuss any questions you may have. I've been active in SCI for twenty three years and currently I'm serving as vice president of the Executive Committee. I am the owner of a large healthcare business, consulting, and franchise company. My business experience has

18:00 included human resources, finance, real estate, marketing, contract law, and many other areas. It's a very professional sounding commercial. He knew how to market himself. I love that music in the backgrounds epic movie music or something so. SEI is a fifty thousand member conservation and hunting advocacy group. In two thousand and nine, Larry did become president, but in twenty twelve he was kicked out of the club for adultery, not presenting an image of morality, and using his title to seduce women. SCI also stripped him of his hunting awards. Larry was not one to let things go easily. He filed a defamation lawsuit against SCI. The case dragged on for years. Both Larry and Bianca gave depositions in the lawsuit. Bianca was asked under oath if she knew that he was having a long term affair with Laurie, and she said no. She also testified that her marriage was a happy one. Larry was a known womanizer. Laurie wasn't his only discretion. He was known to have affairs on his affairs. A colleague once asked him why he was so often unfaithful to his wife, and Larry replied it was as fun as a roller coaster. After Larry was kicked out of SCI, he became president of another hunting group, the Weatherbee Foundation. The Rudolphs were both season hunters and knew how to handle guns safely. I can't say that enough they knew what they were doing. Okay that they both had collected many trophies over the years,

19:30 but Bianca had not yet added a leopard to her collection. In October of twenty sixteen, the Rudolphs went on a trip to one of their favorite spots, the Kofuey National Park in Zambia. Cheetahs, hippos, lions, rare, antelopes, and leopards rome. They traveled to Kofui several times each year. Kofuy is an exceptionally large park. It's about the size of New Jersey. The park is a wildlife refuge, but hunting as loud in some areas. The Rudolphs loved hunting and Kofui so much they built their own ca abbin in the park. The sole purpose of this trip was for Bianca to add a leopard to her collection. They obtained one permit during this trip in Bianca's name for a leopard. Larry didn't plan on hunting, he was there to support Bianca. The trip was scheduled between September twenty seventh and in October eleventh.

20:18 The Rudolphs brought two weapons with them, a Remington three fifty seven rifle and a Browning twelve gage shotgun, a somewhat rare gun. Their trip guides recalled that Larry and Bianca were in good spirits and seemed happy together during the trip. Bianca had found out about Lorie recently, and this trip was meant to patch things up and bring them closer together. Larry told Bianca that it was over between he and Laurie and he only wanted to be with her. The trip ended in disappointment for Bianca. The leopard remained elusive. She wasn't able to add one to her collection, but she did kill several other animals, including a zebra, during the trip. The night before they were scheduled to return home, Bianca emptied and cleaned the guns. Spencer Cocoma, their tour guide, recalled seeing her complete the task. A seasoned hunter would never leave their weapon loaded. You know where this is going to put a pin in that too. The Rudolphs awakened before dawn on October eleventh, twenty sixteen.

21:11 They had an early flight. Their nephew was getting married the upcoming weekend and they didn't want to miss it. Bianca was looking forward to seeing her large Italian family, and she was up packing. At five thirty am. Larry was in the bathroom when he heard a gunshot. He burst out of the bathroom and saw Bianca lying on the floor of the cabin with her arms over her head, bleeding profusely. The bullet had ripped through her black t shirt and bra, leaving a six to eight centimeter hole in her chest. The Rudolph's Safari guide Spencer Cocoma and game scout Mark swain Pool also heard the gunshot and tore into the cabin a few seconds later. They were shocked to see Bianca laying on the floor in a growing pool of her own blood, with a large, gaping wound on the left side of her chest, straight through the heart. The twelve gage browning lay a few feet from her body, partially in its leathers zippered case with a hole in it from where the bullet had blasted through. According to Mark and Spencer, Larry cried out and said, my wife committed suicide. What am I going to tell my children?

22:10 Larry was so distraught that he ran to a nearby river and said he was going to jump in and commit suicide like his wife. Eventually, he calmed down, changed a story and said that Bianca must have accidentally shot herself in the chest while putting the shotgun away in the case. Larry claimed he attempted CPR but wasn't successful. Bianca had died almost instantly. Later that night, Larry contacted the USNBC and Zambia and he explained that he wanted to leave the country as soon as possible and asked about expediting the cremation of Bianca's body. Larry aggressively questioned the embassy as to who would have access to their investigation records. Two days later, the consular chief received a call from the funeral home that Bianca's body was about to be cremated, after Larry had pressured them that it'd be done quickly. The consular chief intervened. He knew the US would not be happy about the fast paced Larry was moving to have his wife interred. The consular chief went to the funeral home and had pictures taken of Bianca's body. Unbeknownst to Larry, the chief but had been in the military for over twenty years and was well educated on guns and AMMO. Upon investigation of the photos, he didn't think that Bianca's wound looked as if it could be from a self inflicted close range shot. Nevertheless, Bianca's death was ruled an accident. In Zambia. It is rumored that Larry put pressure on them to declare Bianca's cause of death and accident, and money likely changed hands.

23:34 On October fourteenth, Bianca was cremated. Larry insisted it was too challenging to transport her body back to the United States. However, he had transported animals back to the US that were much larger than his wife. In the arrest alfidavit, the FBI said Larry frequently arranged for the transportation of animals hunted on his trips to be transported back to the United States, a process that is often cumbersome, expensive and time consuming. So they're shipping hippos back to the US, but not like you know, they've been taxi her meat but still but still yeah. Larry failed to contact any family members that Bianca was dead and he had her remains cremated. The consular chief had offered to call Anna and Julian for Larry, but he said no and told them Bianca wasn't their birth mother. He explained that they were his children from a previous marriage.

24:27 They were not. Meanwhile, back in the US, Anna and Julian began to began to worry about their mother when they couldn't get a hold of her for a few days. It was unusual for her not to return their calls. Larry wasn't answering their messages either. A week after Bianca's death, Larry finally notified his son. On the way back to Arizona, while on a layover in Johannesburg, he called Julian and told him the horrible news. He told Julian that he needed him to tell his sister. So Julian was a good brother. He flew to Pittsburgh to tell Anna. They were both devastated. Larry emailed his brother in law when he was still in Zambia and told him they wouldn't be at their nephew's wedding, but he made it sound like they had decided to extend their trip, not that Bianca was dead. It's insane. It's insane that he took a week to tell his kids. It is it's I asked her daughter, I'm like, if I went on a trip and he didn't tell you I was dead, theoretically speaking, she said she'd be very angry. I could understand that. Yeah, you would think if nothing else, Larry wouldn't need their consolation. Yeah, Yeah, it's when that happens in a burn. If you have someone die in a foreign country, there's it's very sad. It's isolating, and there's a lot of paperwork, and it's not an easy process. Bianca's funeral was in Arizona two weeks after her death. It was put together quickly, and there was no Catholic mass, which Bianco really would have wanted. I didn't mention this early, but Bianca's very Catholic, she's religious. She doesn't believe in cremation,

26:00 she doesn't believe in divorce. Nice, Nice, Larry, We're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back. We just left off at Bianca's funeral, and Larry is now back in the United States. I didn't talk about Bianca's cause of death. So after she died, she was taken to Lasaka, the capital of Zambia, to be autopsied. She was rushed to be cremated, but they did. They did get her autopsied. Her cause of death was hemorrhagic shock, a macerated left side of the heart, a perforated lung, and a gunshot injury. And Zambia no manner of death is put on the death certificate. So what do you think the motive could be.

26:48 I think Larry wanted to get rid of Bianca so he could do whatever he wanted. He wanted to be with Lori, right, Yeah. In the year before her death, Larry increase Bianca's life insurance benefits two over four million dollars. He knew Bianca wouldn't divorce him because of her religion, and his girlfriend had given him an ultimatum. He needed to get rid of his wife so he and Laurie could live a life of luxury. Four million dollars. That's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. Yeah. I don't know much about the insurance industry, but they must not cross check policies. And you would think if someone increases your life insurance by that much in a year, that right, it's it's dangerous. And Larry like he was doing really well financially anyway, Like you know, if you don't want to, if you don't want to bring suspicion upon yourself, why do that, Like it just doesn't make any sense. Well, like in the Corey Richard's case, like how much money is enough money? Agreed, It's just a horrible thing. So let's talk about the investigation. They aren't exactly Csimiami Dan Foot, former US Ambassador to Zambia, said of the police invest gay in Bianca's death. The crime scene was not fingerprinted and little other evidence was taken. There were no formal interviews, gunshot residue testing, or light detector tests. Bianca's body was moved and covered with a blanket after her death, and the gun was also moved for safety reasons. The scene was very compromised,

28:19 as was the evidence. Bianca's Browning rifle, however, was turned over to the police. Officials performed a drop test on the gun, but they could not replicate a situation where the gun misfired. Zambian police have few resources and little training. They took Larry's word and this is really odd to me, but they returned the gun to Larry before he left the country. Yeah, that's very odd. Bianca's death was ruled accidental by the Zambian officials two days after she died. They concluded that the gun had been loaded from the previous day's hunting expedition and hadn't been properly emptied. But remember one of the hunting guides witnessed Bianca cleaning the gun after returning from the safari and the last day of the hunting, and she knew what she was doing. She was very well acquainted with the guns. And I don't know if you're going to talk about this, but to me, like it's a rifle, right, so it's a long gun. I don't know how you would accidentally shoot yourself with a gun like that, Like, it just doesn't It seems to be very hard to shoot yourself in the chest where she was shot accidentally. Wife.

29:21 I think what Larry was trying to say is she was leaning over the gun kind of and the case was tight, and she was like shoving it in the case. Yeah. But and I do talk about this in a minute, but you never put a gun in the case with the muzzle facing you. You always would, you know, put it facing towards the ground. Yeah. Larry claimed that he didn't know why the gun was loaded or who had loaded it. The guide said that Larry was fully clothed in wearing his shoes when he ran into the cabin after hearing the gun shot. Larry had told investigators he was in the shower when the gun went off, but later claimed he had been on the toilet. He said he had the runs. The accidental death declaration paved the way for Larry to secure Bianca's exorbitant life insurance policies. The FBI later sent agents to Africa to interview the zambient hunting guides, the coroner, and local law enforcement who had deemed Bianca's death as accidental. The FBI spent several months in Africa conducting and investigation interviews. I don't think I said this earlier, but where they were located in the Kafui National Park was about eighty miles to the nearest law enforcement, so it took them, you know, a long time to get there to the scene.

30:34 Here are a few things that the FBI determined during their lengthy investigation. There was an absence of stippling in the pictures of Bianca's gunshot wound that would be present from a close range shot. Do you know what stipling is? Yeah, it's well, it's like, is it gunpowder residues? Stifling is the burning of either clothing or skin by the gunpower which fires out of a gun along with the bullet. The bullet that shot Bianca was filled with either bird shot or buckshot, and it's made up of little pellets. When fired, the pellets scatter, and if the gun is shot close up, the pellets would scatter less. The scattered pattern of Bianca's wound was larger, which led officials to determine that she was shot from a longer distance, not close up.

31:18 Larry claimed not to know the make and model of the shotgun and referred to it as an antique. He paid an unknown trash service to dump the rare Browning shotgun used to kill Bianca two years after she died, so the FBI could not get the gun back. I'm not sure why this investigation took so long. I mean, of course they had to travel back and forth to Africa, but five years was a long time. Yeah, we talked about this earlier. But in the year before her death, Larry significantly increased Bianca's life insurance coverage. A forensic accountant found at the time of her death the Rudolphs were worth between thirteen and fifteen million dollars. The FBI tried to recreate the shooting with a similar rifle and couldn't do it. The recreation led them to conclude that Bianca had been shot from six to eight feet away.

32:06 An experiment was conducted with twenty five women inexperienced with guns putting it in a case, and none of them did it wrong. While investigating Larry's dental practice, the FBI found that Larry committed fraud on his patients. I know you're shocked. Well, this is this is something that we talk about a lot. My dentist is very like I trust her with my teeth in my life, but sometimes just are untrustworthy and you have to be careful and know that if they're asking you to get expensive procedures you really need them. Good point. It's funny because my dentist said something about needing a new lexus last time I saw him. So but no, we do have different dentists and we have different teeth. But you have way more dental procedures than I do.

32:52 So Larry performed unnecessary procedures or neglected basic care, resulting in future costly procedures, for example, a root canal if a cavity was left untreated. Dentist and employees alleged that Larry encouraged the dentist in the practice to grind down problem teeth to the point where a root canal was the go to option not cool. That's not cool, is it? I can smell those donuts and it's kind of No charges were ever filed, but the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office had been investigating Larry for insurance fraud since twenty eleven. Another questionable incident from Larry's past happened in October of two thousand and six. Larry had a run in with a crocodile, but partially but off his thumb in Zambia. He was fishing alone and while taking a fish off the hook, a crocodile jumped out of the water and grabbed the fish and part of his thumb. Holy crap.

33:47 Larry fell into the water and wrestled with the crocodile until he was able to fight it off and swim to safety. Larry's like a superhero dentist. He's not a regular dentist. He escaped with only a few scratches. Locals questioned the veracity of Larry's story. It is unlikely for a crocodile to abandon its prey. After the incident, he claimed that he could no longer practice as a dentist. He filed an insurance claim for disability after the attack and received thirty thousand dollars a month, collecting three point five million dollars over ten years. Wow, Ron aren't an attorney and acquaintance of Larry said quote, I thought all along the thumb was a fraud, and he was always misrepresenting his hunting experience to turn these delusions of grandeur into political power and money.

34:35 He was an amoral snake oil salesman. End quote. Wow, but did he actually lose part of his thumb? Like he must have lost it somehow, right, he must have lost it somehow. He questioned why Larry couldn't practice dentistry when just the tip of his non dominant thumb had been bitten off, but Larry claimed nerve damage left an unable to hold dental tools. After the incident, Larry oversaw the operations of his dental offices. I don't think he practiced dentistry again. But yeah, I'm we're pretty sure he shot off his thumb. It wasn't really been enough by a crocodile, which, again, that must have hurt like a son of a gun. I would think so. Yeah, if I happened to die unexpectedly in a hunting accident, which is highly unlikely, It would be pretty unlikely because I don't hunt.

35:21 I would think that you would mourn my death for I mean, probably decades, but at least at least a week, at least a solid two weeks. Yeah, I would let our kids know. Also, within at least a day or two, you would, You definitely would. Larry went to Las Vegas three days after his wife's funeral with another woman, not Laurie, even not even Laurie. Bianca's friends and family were immediately suspicious of Larry. A friend of Bianca's contacted the FBI and informed them of Larry's long term affair and told him they needed to take a closer look at him. This friend told the FBI that Larry was verbally abusive to Bianca and they had been fighting frequently before the trip to Zambia. Many of their fights were focused on finances, which is like, didn't you guys have enough? I mean, maybe they over extended themselves, but it just seemed like they had a lot of money. Yeah. Their friend claimed that Larry wouldn't divorce Bianca because he didn't want to part with half of his money, and Bianco wouldn't divorce Larry because she was Catholic and wanted her marriage to work. Their friend was emphatic that Bianco would never have wanted to be cremated, which is like a sin in the Catholic Church. I think. A previous employee of the dental practice also contacted the FBI with her suspicions about Larry. Laury alluded to her that she had given Larry an ultimatum. An FBI investigation ensued that took five long years.

36:42 Days after returning to the United States, Larry contacted the companies that carried Bianca's life insurance policies. Larry had purchased nine life insurance policies for his wife from seven different companies. Do I have life insurance? I mean through my work? I think so. You don't even know a good answer. I should know, we should know that. Really. The first policy was purchased in nineteen eighty seven. Larry filed claims on the policies. He eventually received four million, eight hundred seventy seven thousand, seven hundred forty four dollars and ninety three cents from the insurance companies. So that is a big wad of cash. Is a big payout. Yeah. About three months after Bianca's death, Laurie moved into the Paradise Valley, Arizona home that Larry had shared with Bianca. Don't you dare, don't you dare move your your girlfriend into my house in my bed. You would never do that. I shouldn't even joke.

37:38 They no longer felt like they had to hide their relationship. They were thinking of moving into a new house and had recently looked at a three point five million dollar home in the same subdivision, but decided to build their own dream home, complete with a two story trophy room to display all of Larry's taxidermied animals. He must have had so many of these animals. So if you go to zilo dot com a lot of times, like if a house is sold, you can see pictures of it. So I tried. I looked up all his old addresses because I just wanted to see if they were, you know, what the trophy room would look like. And I couldn't really find a room like a trophy room. But I did see one picture that he had, like a rug I think it was a bear rug, and like a chair that looked like it was made of cheetah, which is I don't know If it was, it was probably real cheetah ska. They also built a new home in Pennsylvania and purchased a condo in Cabo Saint Lucas.

38:40 Larry bought two luxury sport cars as well, and Aston Martin dB eleven and a Bentley Bataga. Really live in the life there, Larry. In twenty twenty, nearly four years after Bianca's death, Larry and Laurie were overheard arguing while having dinner at one of their favorite restaurants, Stake forty four. Pressure was mounting on them as the FBI investigation intensified and they could feel the heat. They liked to sit at the bar, eating steaks and drinking martinis. The bartender overheard them quarreling when Larry said loudly, I killed my fucking wife for you. Larry would later say he actually said, the FBI thinks I killed my fucking wife for you. Likely story. Yeah, So let's go over the evidence against Larry. The gun was partially in a zippard case.

39:28 The muzzle of the gun was sticking out, and experienced gud Smith would never put a gun into the case this way. A gun always goes in muzzle first and most gun cases are shaped this way. They're narrow at the bottom and whiter at the top. And Bianca, we said this before, definitely knew how to put a gun into its case. And also I believe that, you know, they were leaving at five thirty in the morning, she would have been packed and ready to especially the web. You know, if maybe not all their clothing, but the weapons. I would think they definitely would have cleaned it the night before, as the tour guides or the hunting guides said, she yeah, she would have packed it right then. I would think so too. My next point is, Spencer, the tour guide had seen Bianca cleaned the gun the night before, wouldn't she have put it in the case. Then a drop test was performed on the gun that killed Bianca, but it didn't mispire. Moreover, the FBI performed a reach test and had twenty women of a similar height to Bianca attempt to put the same gun as Bianca into a case and reached the trigger, and none of them came close. The barrel of the gun was too long. Bianca's friends and family said that she did not want to be cremated because she was a devout Catholic. There is one point that he didn't talk about that. I read that in the will it said that she wanted to be cremated. But she might not have read the terms of the will. Oh you think he maybe you just had the will down and said, oh, just sign.

40:52 Yeah. I mean we'd signed a will and we did not read every paragraph. I think they went over it with us briefly. But you know, I can imagine Bianca probably had a lot of documents put in front of her that she signed. Larry once asked a man who worked in one of his offices if he had any relatives in Mexico that would make someone disappear for twenty five thousand dollars. Larry never had a problem that he couldn't buy or bribe his way out of. See the exculpatory evidence of Larry is there's not much. Larry's kids support him, and it's marginally possible that a gun could have mispired when Bianca placed it in the case. The owner manual for the gun actually states that there is a chance the gun could mispire. So we have three possibilities. Larry killed Bianca, Bianca killed herself, or the gun accidentally went off. What do you think I'm going with door number one. I think it's pretty clear he did it and he meant to do it. Yeah.

41:55 In December twenty twenty one, days before Christmas, and arrest warrant was issued for Larry Rudolph for the murder of his wife and mail fraud for defrauding several insurance companies. He was arrested after getting off a plane in Cabo San Lucas. Larry and Laurie had planned on celebrating Christmas in Mexico with her families, but there would be no celebration for Larry that year. He was denied bail. He was indicted in Colorado in January of twenty twenty two on federal charges. The indictment was issued in Colorado because of a jurisdictional issue. Most of the life insurance companies were in Colorado. In an attempt to obtain bail for Larry, Anna and Julian signed a naffidavit saying that they believed him to be innocent and that he did not pose a flight risk. They said that keeping him in custody created a health risk for doctor Rudolph because he has a pacemaker. He was not given bail. Laurie was also indicted on charges of accessory after the fact, obstruction of a federal grand jury, and multiple counts of perjury. It was kind of shocked that she was charged. Judge allowed Laurie to serve her time under house arrest until her trial date, under the condition she would have no contact with Larry. She had planned to continue working for the dental practice, but she was shocked when Julian larry Son fired her and cut her off from all of the bank accounts. Larry called her from prison and she complained about She complained about his kids. She said, these kids don't deserve anything. They have never worked like you and I have.

43:24 So Anna is a dentist and Julian is a lawyer. I've had some clips from dayline and it was so she's so so mean, real these clips, but they were just a little they were too hard to hear, so I didn't include them. She's a she seems like a vile woman. Good good match for Larry, I guess, I guess. So she was arrested for violating the terms of her house arrest by talking to Larry and forced to remain in jail until the trial started. Before the trial, David Marcus, Larry Rudolph's lawyer said, quote, now more than five years later, the government and is seeking to manufacture a case against this well respected and law abiding dentist.

44:05 Doctor Rudolph looks forward to his trial where he will demonstrate his innocence. The FEDS brought charges without any real evidence, no eye witnesses, no forensics, no anything except for some speculation sprinkled into a chasm of conjecture. End quote, chasm of conjecture. The three week trial began in Denver in July of twenty twenty two. Larry and Laurie were tried at the same time and faced the same jury, which different charges. Right Yeah. Laurie's attorneys were very unhappy about them being tried together. She was offered a plea deal to testify against him, but she declined. Several Zambians were flown in for the trial, including the coroner, the camp guides who knew the Rudolph's well, blood spatter experts, and experts in shooting reconstruction spencer. The safari guide testified that Bianca was very skilled at handling her firearm. He also said that the Rudolphs were a loving an affectionate couple. Larry was the last witness. He took the stand in his own defense and was grilled for over four hours and emphatically stated that he did not kill Bianca. He said they had a quote don't ask, don't tell, open marriage, and we're very happy. I think Bianco I read about her having one affair that we know of. He claimed that he didn't call his children from Zambia to tell them about their mother because he wanted to tell them in person so that he could hug them when he told them, but he didn't write, although he called his son from the airport and flew home to Arizona, not Pittsburgh or floor and O where

45:36 his kids lived. So yeah, just gross. When asked why he disposed of the gun that killed his wife, he said, quote, I'm not a gun guy. No. Of course, Anna and Julian were at the trial every day to support their father. Bianca's brothers, Ralph and Vince Finizio were also there every day, and during Larry's testimony, they could be heard audibly groaning. In closing statements, Larry's attorney acknowledged that Larry was not likable, the old likable likable defense this quote. This isn't about whether you like Larry or not. I think he probably did. It is not a guilty verdict under the law. End quote. He reminded the jury that the theories and gossip were not enough to convict a man. Larry sixty eight was found guilty of yes of killing a US national in a foreign country, and mail fraud for defrauding the insurance companies. After the six men and six woman jury deliberated for about one and a half days. After the verdict was read, Larry turned and waved at Laurie before leaving the courtroom. Here's a clip of a heartbreaking call Anna had with Larry. Didn't call it up, such a sweetheart. I just wait for tred. I know, honey. I don't want to lose you either. I don't regret. Why do you look more

47:08 or was he voted to it? I didn't, honey, I didn't. It just felt no way. She was just my friend. I needed a friend to have sex with. I have a friend. I was ready for you. I take it no way to you come you to dad as the following your foot. I'm so sorry, honey. I never wanted any of this to happen they ever ever ever you was our creamly maybe loose my dad, remember, honey, we can't say too much on his phone. Okay, I'm just so broken heart with that was heartbreaking. It Brianna, she just she just wants her parents. Yeah, now she hasn't either parents.

47:57 He just needed a friend to have sex with a piece of garbage. He was sentenced to life in prison in August twenty three. He was said to look frail and he does have a heart condition. Larry will also serve a concurrent sentence of twenty years for defrauding multiple insurance companies and pay the four million, eight hundred seventy seven seven hundred forty four dollars and ninety three cents in restitution, as well as a fine of two million dollars, and relinquish another eight million dollars in assets acquired after Bianca's life insurance money or after he received Bianca's life insurance money. During the sentencing hearing, Bianca's brother, Vincent Finizio, gave a statement and told Larry that he would eventually quote die alone and unmourned. Even Judas would be afraid to be in your company and quote Julian persuaded the judge that increasing the penalties against his father punished him and his sister by reducing their adheritance. Anna meanwhile, testified at Laurie's sentencing, and she said, quote, Laurie, you have taken my parents. Despite everything you have done, you will never take my soul. This might be difficult to understand because you don't have one end quote. Laurie mill Iron, sixty five, was found guilty of being an accessory after the fact to murder, obstruction of justice, and two counts of perjury based on her testimony before a grand jury, but was also found not guilty on three other counts of perjury.

49:17 She was sentenced to seventeen years in prison and ordered not to have any contact with Larry. The judge commented that her sentence was lengthy because there was evidence that she had encouraged Larry to murder Bianca and she had shown no remorse. Wow, that's a pretty stiff sentence. Yeah, I'm a little surprised about that. One US attorney, Cole Finnigan, said, quote, this result shows no matter how much money, prestige, or power you have, you will be held accountable for your crimes. FBI Denver Special Agent in Charge Mark Mitchellack said, quote, the fact that justice arrived today is no accident. It is part of a dedicated effort by public servants committed to the cause of justice. We are grateful to the attorney's staff and investigators who made today's result possible. The defendant in this case thought he could murder his wife overseas and get away with it. He was wrong and will now be held accountable for his actions thanks to the relentless pursuit of justice by the dedicated men and women of the FBI, DJ and the family of Bianco Rudolph, who never lost faith in the judicial system. Larry's attorney said, we are extremely disappointed.

50:23 We believe in Larry and his children. Larry is innocent. He did not murder his wife. We are looking forward to the appeal on this matter, in which we have a number of very promising issues. Sure you do. They claim he had no financial motive to kill his wife because his dental practice is worth over ten million dollars and an appeal has been filed. No financial motive for four million dollars in life insurance. But yeah, well five really it was almost five yeah, yeah, so that's the story of Larry and Bianca Rudolph. I don't what a piece of crap, right, I don't like when he talked and some of the tapes that we didn't play about how he was a victim because he was wealthy. They went after because he was wealthy. Oh yeah, that's what they always did. Let's go after the wealthy ones. So just a little bit about dentists. And our son was trying to think of, like what he wanted to go to college for.

51:16 I was like, be a dentist. He was like, dentists are really unhappy. They have the highest suicide rate. Right, they do not have the highest suicide rate. Farmers, fishermen, and forestry workers are at the top of the list of professions that are most likely to commit suicide. Dentists actually are number twelve on the list, lumped in with other medical professionals. But the study was the study I found was from twenty twelve, so it's an older study. Being a dentist is physically grueling. However, dentists have more back, shoulder, and neck issues than most white colored professions due to the awkward way they have to position their bodies. You can see As many as ninety percent of dentists report some sort of back pain. A lot of patients have anxiety about going to the dentist, and that negative energy can be draining for a dentist. Dental school is very expensive, as is starting at dental practice. Dental equipment and procedures are always improving, and staying up to date with equipment and training is expensive, challenging, and stressful. Dental care is expensive for patients too, and often people aren't able to pay for emergency services, which puts dentists in a difficult position. YEA, one time when I worked at the dentist, this was one of the worst things that I'd ever seen. This guy came in. It was kind of like after hours, and he was really in pain, and I think because your teeth can cause you a lot of pain. And he was really drunk. And I think he was really drunk because he was in so much pain. And I think he drank because he wanted the tooth extracted and he was just like to shank it out. And I don't think he had a lot of money, so you know, the dentist wasn't very nice, but he really did just like yank this drunk guy's tooth out. It was horrible to be a part

52:49 of twenty fifteen study found that dentists have almost twice the rate of depression and anxiety as a general population. Many dentists reported feelings of isolation along with mental and physical exhaustion. The study revealed that dentists are two point five times more likely to commit suicide than the general population, but middle aged men are the most likely to commit suicide, and a lot of dentists are middle aged men. My point is, next time you see your dentists, give them a hawk, ask them how they're doing, Tell them you appreciate them. My dentists seems like a pretty happy guy, Doctor Trayner. He always seems pretty happy and well in the fifty billboards that I see around town, he looks really happy. But maybe that's do people in your dentists practice know that?

53:37 Not that I know of, but yeah, but maybe that's just a front that he's putting on. Though. Well, and yesterday I read a story and I want to close every episode now with don't Forget to Floss, because I read a study about flossing and dental health, and how we knew that it had has a lot to do with Cardiac issues can be caused by dental plaque and things like that. But now they're seeing like Elzheimer's and dementia could be not prevented, but maybe diminished with better dental health. So floss brush, Yeah, use your mouthwash. I wish I had started. I started flossing regularly probably eight nine years ago, and I wish that i'd started twenty years ago. I'd like to see that. I'd like totally. No, it definitely need to see the receipts dental Okay, all right, sure, I know, Okay. I just wanted to talk about big game hunting for a second. Big game hunting is very controversial. Conservation to say that the legal hunting in Africa pays for the conservation of animals and reduces poaching. It also brings in huge tourism dollars to African countries. Animal active to say it is unethical to hunt animals at all. South Africa has the biggest hunting industry in the world. The big five trophies are lions, elephants, white rhinos, leopards, and buffalo. The licenses to hunt these animals ranged from can you take a wild guess? Oh, gosh, I don't know, probably thousands of dollars. That's super expensive, from ten thousand to one hundred and

55:08 twenty five thousand dollars. I think the right. The white rhino was the most expensive to hunt some of these large animals. Bait is used the corpse of another animal, for example, to hunt a leopard, and impala might be used to entice them. Which animal do you think is the most dangerous to hunt? Oh, I don't know. The rhinoceros, maybe the buffalo. I surprised. I don't know why. In twenty fifteen, doctor Walter J. Palmer, an American dentist another dentist, killed Cecil, a beloved lion in Zimbabwe. Yeah, Cecil was a wild lion that was well known to tourists and allowed people to take his picture. He wasn't tame, but he was and he wasn't really friendly, but he just kind of, you know, walked around and seemed to like people enjoyed him. And yeah, Palmer liked to bow hunt. He shot Cecil with a bow and wounded him, but it took several days for him to hunt the lion down before killing him with a gun. I know, that's so he beheaded him and left his carcass to rot. Doctor Pamlo was nearly run out of business. He was hounded by locals and the media just really went after him. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, his YELP rating is one point three. I think that's just justice, you know, Yeah, yeah? Why is what is it with dentists and big game hunting. I think dentists because they're depressed, that helps them. I mean I don't think. I think a lot of them, not doctor Sophia Cornish, but a lot of dentis have kind of an ego, the good dentist I worked for a head and ego for sure. All right, So back to Bianca and Larry just for a second,

56:42 I mean, what are the odds that Bianco would would shoot the guns straight to her heart? Right? Larry knew he only had one shot, yeah, and he took that one shot obviously. He was, you know, good with a gun, and he knew exactly where to shoot her. I think Larry chose to murder Bianca and Mbia because he was aware that the investigation would not be through and the police weren't local. Oh. He probably thought he could pay them off too, which maybe it was my next point exactly. I also wanted to mention Larry is not surprisingly a big fan of Donald Trump, and he wanted a place in the Trump cabinet as director of the US Fish and Wildlife Service, and he also considered running for Congress.

57:22 I believe those rats are dashed, that is all. I have all good, good job telling the story. I think he's guilty as hell, yeah, for sure, and he is. One of the tapes of he and Lorie, it's I think prisoners have a lot more access to phones today than and maybe they used to, because it seems like he had a lot of phone calls. But he talked to Larry and I'm sorry, Lorie and said, you know, essentially I'm a dead man. I'm going to die in prison and I know that. Yeah, so he knows that, so rest in peace beyond. I'm so sorry that your husband was a piece of garbage, and yeah, took you away from your children, who I think really miss her. And you know, I am sure that there has to be doubt in the back of their minds, I would hope. So they're dead, yeah, I mean they're not dumb. Yeah, And they're adults, they're not like little kids. But but as always, it's the kids that you know suffer the most. They lost both their parents and even though they're adults, that sucks for them. Laurie being sentenced to seventeen years that surprised me a little bit. I think it surprised her too, but I believe there are a lot of text messages and things like that, the kind of show that she was complicit in it. Yeah, for my sources, I watched there was I didn't watch it, stupid day Life. I listened to a podcast and there was a good episode of forty eight Hours. I watched on the Case, and a really good Rolling Stone article and a bunch of other periodicals. For our sources, you can check our show notes. Yes,

58:52 I also looked into the cost of taxidermy and the animal because I've thought that must be super expensive, and I think they arranged from like two thousand to as high as fifteen thousand. And you can get just a head mounted, or you can do like the whole the Holy animal, and you can get rugs made out of you know, the animals you hunt too. Yeah, you would have all that done in Zambia, right, and then have the taxidermid animals shipped back. I would assume that's how they do it. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I learned a lot more about hunting and yeah, but it was an interesting case. Yeah, super interesting. What a guy? Yeah, all right, so that's all I have. All Right, what are we going to do with the rest of our day?

59:36 I don't know. I did a case for Patreon yesterday, so I am a little a couple of days off, probably won't but yeah. So today is October two, which means we have been podcasting for a whole year. One year and one Happy birthday. Yeah, happy posy happy Yeah, happy potroversary. I'll make you a cake later if you want. Every week we've published an episode every Monday for a whole year. I think that's what I'm most proud of is it's not been always easy. Yeah, yeah, I'm really proud of us, and I'm I'm so grateful for our listeners. We see it all the time, but you know, I'm really grateful for you. Let make a tear up. I'm grateful for you too. And we were going to do a special anniversary episode, but I think we're just going to throw a few questions that we're going to bounce off each other right now, you're not interested, Just tone out, have a good day. Talk to you later. Catch on the flippity flip question for you, Is there a case that has made like a big impact on you that you can't get out of your head? That really, gosh, that's a tough one because honestly, like all they all make an impact on me, especially the ones.

1:00:42 Not that I don't like listen intently when you do your cases, but but you know, you spend so much time researching and reading and getting to know like the victims and things like that, so it really you just get absorbed in it, and I don't gosh, that's a really good point what you just said, though, Like my people, like my cases are like I feel like I know them, like it was you know, I've probably spent two weeks with Larry, and I'm like, I'm really glad. I'm always so glad to say goodbye to Larry, Like I don't need to think about you anymore, La, or You're out of my head. Some of them stick with me a little more. Yeah, do you have one that sticks with you particularly? Yeah? Probably the It was one we did early on. It was a Shannon Starbuck case and that one kind of sticks with me because I actually reached out to the Spokane Police Department and got like a freedom of information. Actually I got way more stuff that was like actual evidence that I had ever gotten for any other case before, and it was just really like it really made it more real, I guess, And just it was such a Yeah, they're all sad cases, but that one really sticks with me. One of them that sticks with me. Also wasn't a case early on, And if you haven't listened to it, I know some I don't listen to any of our episodes. I I just can't make myself do it. But I hope it's not too cringey to go back and listen to them. But the Sarah and Ryan Woodmer case, I think about Sarah all the time, and I don't think that Ryan killed her. So I hope there is justice in that case someday. But obviously Chris, Chris and Shenan Watts. Yeah, that's just and that one. It shocks me how many

1:02:15 downloads that case continues to get on a weekly basis. It's such a horrible it's a horrible story. Yeah, yeah, and sadly like that guy just too. Yeah, So I have a question for you, which maybe it is related to that, But I'm we talked about a lot of really bad people, like horrible people. But I'm curious who you who you just disliked the most, Who you just hate it's every fiber of your being. I'm going to give you a few. But Chris Watts, obviously we already talked about Barrymore for you because he's a freeman and I know I know that he killed Susan Susanne. That's a relatively recent one too. I mean, I hate a lot of them. Some of them might have a little bit of sympathy for like Susan Polk. Oh, we talked. I don't want to get the name wrong, but I think it was. Was it Nancy Howard?

1:02:59 Was she the one your case? She survived? That case sticks with me, Yeah, because she I tear up thinking about her because she's you know, she survived and she went through a lot, and you know, her story was really amazing. Yeah, what about you, Who's Bob Bob? Yeah, that guy was such a piece of ship. And they're all really gross, like this guy, like Larry, He's he's up there for Actually, the one I'm researching right now which will record probably next or which will release probably next week. The two people in this case are maybe the most horrible people I've ever read about, So you've got that to look forward to. Oh and then we have I had Kennon Barbarabie people and they were really horrible too. But yeah, we had a year of horrible people, but we had a year of a lot of great people to eating our Like, talking to our listeners has just really been great, Yeah, for sure.

1:03:53 And some of the people we talked about in our cases, Like I was just thinking about the Aaron Corwin case, which we did a couple of months ago, Like the people that searched for her in the desert of you know, California and Arizona or whatever for like weeks on end. Just stuff like that is so moving to me and just amazing that people, you know, are willing to do that. People are most people are good people, and the same that always makes me super emotional to the people that the advocates. Yeah, and I hope we have been able to advocate for victims a little bit. Yeah. Do you have any takeaways about true crime in general after a year of completely immersing yourself into it, Yeah, well, there's a lot of true crime out there. I'm honestly like shocked at will never be out of if we could podcast for a million years. There's cases I'm always surprised, Like I look things up it's like, oh, I've never heard of this before, and there's another and another and another. There's also a lot of true crime podcasts out there, which we had no idea when we and we knew there were a lot. It's so dumb that we didn't realize that they were literally like thousands of one thousands. But it's been really like you probably have more to say about this than me, but the true crime podcasting community has been really great, like just getting to know some of these people and finding other people who are, you know, doing a similar thing, and that's been kind of cool. Yeah, there's you would think there would be more competition, but most people have been like super great and supportive, and yeah, that's been that's been really awesome too. A similar question for you the wait I wanted to say one of my biggest takeaways like of the crime world is the amount of people that go missing is shocking to

1:05:27 me and I try to post about them here and there, but it's there's so so many people that go missing and they don't get like the Gabby Potito type searches that they deserve, and that's really hard and I think I want to try to like start featuring some of them, but there's so many people that go missing, and it's for a multitude of reasons and it's really heartbreaking. Yeah, it really is. And there's there is just so many that it's I think it's hard to focus on, you know, but it's maddening that some cases like the Gabby Potitoes get so much attention, and there's just as many worthy people that don't get the media attention that they design for sure.

1:06:09 All Right, So I was gonna ask you about, like, in this whole one year that we've been doing this, what has been the most surprising to you just about you know, the overall experience. Well, I think I say this quite a bit, but the way that some people think that it's okay to kill someone, like someone can just take someone's life and just that just totally lack remorse or emotion or empathy. But yeah, just the people take someone's life, It just blows my mind that someone has such a little regard for a loved one and their own selfish needs, whether it be you know, an affair or money or whatever it is. Yeah.

1:06:49 And the insurance, the insurance world, Like we talked about that a little bit today, but it's just crazy that you can get unlimited insurance on someone. Yeah, and so many these cases that seems to be a common thread that like, you know, take out an insurance policy and then a month later they end up dead. Yeah. Do you have a favorite episode that we've recorded. It's hard to pick one because they're all like our children, you know. We work so hard on all of them. We do the one that that I've worked on last the Ben Rennick and Linley Rennick case. I that was one of my favorites, partly because I was able to talk to the brother of the victim in that case and it was just it added a whole other dimension of it did and you did such a fabulous job on that. Thank you. Rebecca. Is a Howe which is a case you did. That case is just one so baffling. And similarly when I did the Ellen Greenberg case. Those two cases are like just so head scratching.

1:07:43 Yeah, But my favorite case might be Lizzie Borden, just because I just liked that I wasn't hurting anyone by doing that, and the research was really just kind of fun to do. There is something refreshing about doing a case that is that old that you don't have to like worry about, you know, the victims or the relatives you know, still listening and things like that. Yeah, it's been a great year and I'm so it has been really and I'm just going to keep saying this other my favorite part has been having a new project to work on with you, because you are the best. Oh, thanks, you're the best, and our listeners are also the best. Week really really really appreciate everybody who listens, and especially in people who interact with us on social media or email us. It's just so it's been really nice to hear from people and get their reaction to what we're doing, and it's just it's been awesome. Yeah. I want to mention too, a lot of people have recommended cases and I'm working on them, but I only do one case. Yeah, we have a lot more recommendations than we can get too. Unfortunately, sometimes if we can't find enough information to fill an hour, then we can't really do the case, so it has to be. That's unfortunately why we do so many high profile cases is because that's where we can find, you know, the most amount of information. Yeah, so I wanted to ask you really quickly about how you feel about making Alliance prediction last week. That didn't really come to from you. No, if you listen to my prediction, it was not about the game last week.

1:09:10 It was about the season overall, which I still feel very good about. Oh, I thought you gave our prediction on last week's game. I don't think so. I think I basically predicted that they were going to go to the playoffs and they were going to get to the NFC Championship game and then Luis. So I still stand by that absolutely still could happen. Well, thanks everyone for a great year. Yeah, thanks everyone, and follow us on social media or send us an email at love Mary Kill at gmail dot com. We're always happy to hear from you. And check out our patreon, Patreon dot com, slash love Mary Kill. And I said earlier check out keens quince quince qu i spelled, I didn't spell it, so it's qui nce dot com and I'd get nothing out of that. But I think their stuff is pretty good quality for the price. It's not cheap, but it's it's not expensive either. Like I said, I think it's pretty good quality. And that's all we have until next time. Don't kill your wife, don't kill your husband.