June 6, 2026

Bonus Episode: Judy Malinowski

Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon

When Judy Malinowski met Michael Slager in April 2015, she was ready for love again after beating ovarian cancer and opioid addiction but the relationship quickly turned violent. After dating for only a few months, Slager poured gasoline on Judy and set her on fire, burning more than 80% of her body. Judy's unforgettable story is one of extraordinary courage, resilience, and determination in the face of unimaginable suffering. Her will to live to make a difference for domestic violence survivors is inspirational.

Today's snack: Oreo Cakesters Confetti Cake

Support us on Patreon

Sources:

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:00.320
Hi.

2
00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:01.720
I'm Tina, and I'm Rich.

3
00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:04.599
There's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage.

4
00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:07.400
It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

5
00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:09.960
And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

6
00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:29.039
Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hello Rich, Hello Tina.

7
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:29.600
How are you?

8
00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:30.800
I'm doing good? How are you?

9
00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:33.280
I am good? It's Friday, Happy Friday.

10
00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:33.799
Happy Friday.

11
00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:34.560
How is your week?

12
00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:37.560
It's a pretty good week. Busy week at work.

13
00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:40.520
Yeah, yeah, I don't think I was my best self

14
00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:41.119
this week.

15
00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:43.840
You see, well, you've not been feeling great.

16
00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:46.560
I'm never my best self in this summer, and I

17
00:00:46.679 --> 00:00:49.600
wish that was not the case. But I don't have

18
00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:53.399
any pigment in my skin at all, and between allergies

19
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.119
and seasonal headaches, it's I'm just not my best self.

20
00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:01.359
So I apologize for any grumpiness you had to stand

21
00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:02.439
it was.

22
00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:05.480
It was not too bad, So it's really yes, okay,

23
00:01:05.799 --> 00:01:06.480
not bad at all.

24
00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:08.280
Do you have anything you need to get off your

25
00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:09.239
chest before we start.

26
00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:11.959
I just have a little bit of driving advice for people.

27
00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:13.200
Okay, I'm all ears.

28
00:01:13.280 --> 00:01:15.480
As you know, probably the only time I really get

29
00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:17.680
like upset and frustrated is driving.

30
00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:19.959
You're a different person when you're driving a little bit.

31
00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:22.480
I posted a funny thing on Instagram this week. It

32
00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:25.719
was like people walking on a sidewalk is if they

33
00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:27.840
were driving on the road and what they say to

34
00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:30.799
each other, and it was pretty funny. You would never

35
00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:34.920
say what you say in your car, that is, to someone.

36
00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:35.599
You know, if you were faced.

37
00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:37.640
It's gotten better over the years. But I just have

38
00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:39.680
one piece of advice, and it's going to sound a

39
00:01:39.719 --> 00:01:44.000
little counterintuitive, but don't be too nice when you're driving.

40
00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:46.480
When you pull up to a four way stop, if

41
00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:49.599
you're the first one there, you go. You don't like

42
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:52.159
wait and be polite and be like, oh, you go ahead,

43
00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:54.400
because that messes everything up for everybody.

44
00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.599
Okay, Well what happens to me a lot. And I'm

45
00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.719
embarrassed to admit this, but I have a really short

46
00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:01.359
attention span.

47
00:02:01.519 --> 00:02:01.799
You don't know.

48
00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:03.840
If I don't know, if I'm the first person, I

49
00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:06.799
always forget. And I agree with you that it does get,

50
00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:09.719
you know, like tedious waiting for people, and so sometimes

51
00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:11.639
I go and then I'm like, oh, wait, was I

52
00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:15.400
not supposed to go? So yeah, My advice to people

53
00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:18.400
if you're riding a bicycle, don't ride in the middle

54
00:02:18.439 --> 00:02:20.800
of the road. I got really mad yesterday at some

55
00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.639
people that were riding side by side on a busy road.

56
00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.719
We have a lot of construction around us, so there's

57
00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:26.960
some detours and.

58
00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:27.800
I got mad.

59
00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:32.039
I think biking is great. I like to bike myself,

60
00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:34.800
although I try not to ride on the roads because

61
00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:36.240
it scares the crap.

62
00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.199
We have a lot of nice trails that we do,

63
00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:39.400
but it.

64
00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:42.479
Does drive me crazy when bikers like kind of act

65
00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:44.680
like they own the road in a way.

66
00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:48.080
Well solid advice from The Love Mary Kill People. So

67
00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:51.400
many podcasts today are video and I'm wondering if people

68
00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.360
really do prefer, even on Spotify, like now you can

69
00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:57.479
wash a podcast instead of listening to it. I prefer

70
00:02:57.680 --> 00:02:59.919
listening to a podcast and doing it while I'm you know,

71
00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.879
taking a walk or cleaning or you know, multitasking. Even

72
00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:05.240
sometimes I listen in the shower.

73
00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:06.120
So I'm just.

74
00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.520
Curious if other people feel that way, or you would

75
00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:09.360
rather watch Fabeo.

76
00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:12.000
And Netflix has made a big investment podcast too, so

77
00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:14.199
they have a bunch of video podcasts that you can

78
00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:16.960
watch on Netflix, which to me that it's not really

79
00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:19.520
a podcast if you can watch it, it's a TV show

80
00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:22.599
or a you know, something like that. But yeah, I

81
00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:23.000
don't know.

82
00:03:23.199 --> 00:03:24.719
And I know it like drives a lot of people

83
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:27.680
crazy that we don't put our faces out there everyone

84
00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:30.520
with like a big face reveal someday. But in the

85
00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:34.719
days of AI, it just makes me even more resistant.

86
00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:34.680
To do it.

87
00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:37.960
You know, all right, before we get started on today's episode,

88
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:40.039
I did bring you a snack, but before I show

89
00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:41.560
you the snack, I owe.

90
00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.919
You an apology. But then I kind of don't owe

91
00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:46.240
you an apology. Do you know what I mean?

92
00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:47.520
I know exactly what you mean.

93
00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:51.000
So I accused you today because it's a bonus episode.

94
00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:52.840
I was just like, I'm not going to make any snack.

95
00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:54.400
I'm just going to give you something that I had

96
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:57.919
put away in the cupboard. But sometimes I hide things

97
00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.080
and then I cannot I could not find it. To save,

98
00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:04.159
you accused me, I have falsely accused you.

99
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:06.919
What do you want to advent what you did?

100
00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.039
Do?

101
00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:09.960
I did eat some oreos that you bought that you

102
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:12.120
were intending I step away from me.

103
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:14.599
Yes, I was saving the oreos for a different recipe

104
00:04:14.599 --> 00:04:16.040
that I'm going I was going to make for you,

105
00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:18.360
but you broke into those oreos. So I feel like

106
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:20.480
I don't know if I owe you an apology or not.

107
00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:22.920
I think you do. But I have Oreo. I have

108
00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:25.839
Oreo radar. When I know when there's Oreos in the house,

109
00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.160
I'm like, oh, ding ding ding, I know there's oreos something.

110
00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:32.160
Well. The snack I have for you today is Oreo

111
00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:35.279
Oreo confetti cake Cakesters.

112
00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:36.160
Oh that sounds good.

113
00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:38.079
Yeah. I think you're not well. And that's why I

114
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.279
thought if you saw these in the cupboard, you would

115
00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:42.319
eat them. And it's that I would have yet I

116
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:44.279
thought that you would have eaten all of them and

117
00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.199
disposed of the box. And I was like, I don't

118
00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:47.839
think you would have eaten all of them, But then

119
00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:50.199
you never know because you wouldn't have known that it

120
00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:53.680
was for the podcast, Right, Okay, well we'll try them and.

121
00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:54.240
We'll be right back.

122
00:04:54.279 --> 00:04:54.399
OK.

123
00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:02.519
Did you like the confetti Cakesters?

124
00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:05.959
I will say I was slightly disappointed. They were good,

125
00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:08.399
but not as good as I was hoping they would be.

126
00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:10.959
Well, first bite I had, I thought, Wow, this is

127
00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:13.240
really good, but then I was like, it's kind of

128
00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:14.319
sickeningly sweet.

129
00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.800
Yeah, and the texture of the cookie part is a

130
00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:19.519
little I don't know it's a little harder. I thought

131
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:21.800
it would be soft, kind of more cake like, but

132
00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:23.560
it's not. I don't know. It's okay.

133
00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:24.399
I agree.

134
00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.519
Like I thought that you said, oh, this seems stale,

135
00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:29.720
and I thought the same thing. But if you're like

136
00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:32.560
having a day at the pool or the beach or something,

137
00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:34.879
I think it would be a good stack, yeah, to grab.

138
00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:36.959
So I'm curious, where did you find them?

139
00:05:37.240 --> 00:05:40.680
They were actually in the pantry, like our main pantry. Oh,

140
00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:44.199
they weren't in plain sight. They were behind some other things,

141
00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.120
and I think I put them there, and I was like, well,

142
00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:47.560
if he finds them, me find them.

143
00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.399
So that was to show you I don't look very

144
00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:51.360
very deeply when.

145
00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:53.480
It's funny because I do have hiding spots, and I

146
00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:56.560
looked in all of them and it was just it

147
00:05:56.839 --> 00:05:58.600
literally took me like half an hour to find them.

148
00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.040
So I'm sorry I falsely accused you.

149
00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:03.639
That's okay, I'm sorry I ate there earlier.

150
00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.480
Judy Malanowski's story is one of the most traumatic stories

151
00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:16.519
we've told, but her story is important and she wanted

152
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:19.519
it to be told. It's a story of absolute bravery

153
00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:21.920
and resilience. And I promise you won't be able to

154
00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:26.160
forget Judy. Today's episode does contain discussion of domestic violence,

155
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.600
so please listen with care. This case was recommended to

156
00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.000
us by our friend Jamila in Australia, and there wasn't

157
00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.439
enough information to make a whole hour long episode, but

158
00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:39.720
I really wanted to tell Judy's story because.

159
00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:40.639
It is very important.

160
00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.319
On August second, twenty fifteen, around five pm, a woman

161
00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:47.360
called nine one one in Franklin County, Ohio. She was

162
00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.639
so distraught the dispatcher could barely understand her. The caller

163
00:06:50.680 --> 00:06:53.639
had just witnessed something so horrifying that she struggled to

164
00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.800
express herself through her tears. The woman was at a

165
00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.680
speedway gas station in Ghannah, Ohio. When she's jah thirty

166
00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.040
one year old Judy Malanowski and forty year old Michael

167
00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.639
Slager arguing near a grassy area behind the gas station.

168
00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.319
During the confrontation, Judy threw a fountain drink she was

169
00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:13.519
holding at Michael, angering him further.

170
00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:14.800
He walked back to.

171
00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.959
His truck, retrieved a red gas can, and returned seconds later. Then,

172
00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:22.279
in full view of witnesses, he poured gasoline over Judy's

173
00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:25.800
head and body, covering her completely in the flammable liquid.

174
00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.639
Surveillan's footage from a nearby at M captured much of

175
00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.920
what happened. Though the video was grainy, it showed enough

176
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:36.399
the argument, the gasoline, and then Michael, igniting Judy with

177
00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:40.040
a lighter. Flames quickly consumed her and Judy collapsed to

178
00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:43.759
the ground. Only after realizing that people had witnessed the attack,

179
00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.600
did Michael return with a fire extinguisher to put out

180
00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:50.480
the fire. By then, horrified bystanders were calling nine one

181
00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:53.560
one as the events of the previous few moments began

182
00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:54.199
to sink in.

183
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:57.399
Oh my god, that is such a horrifying scene.

184
00:07:57.519 --> 00:07:58.120
It really is.

185
00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:02.240
Judith Anne was born on August twenty sixth, nineteen eighty three,

186
00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:05.680
to Bonnie and Thomas Henzel in New Albany, Ohio, a

187
00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:10.600
suburb about fifteen miles northeast of Columbus. After she divorced Thomas,

188
00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:14.160
Bonnie married David Gorman, who became an important father figure

189
00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:17.600
in Judy's life. After Thomas died in nineteen ninety seven,

190
00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.000
Bonnie and David welcomed another daughter, Danielle. Years later, after

191
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:25.800
that marriage collapsed, Bonnie married Dan Bows and together they

192
00:08:25.839 --> 00:08:28.800
had a son, Patrick, who was born with Down syndrome.

193
00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:31.240
Patrick adored Judy and said.

194
00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:32.679
She was the best big sister.

195
00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:36.559
Dan also had three sons from a previous relationship. In

196
00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:40.159
high school, Judy was crowned Miss New Albany and Homecoming Queen.

197
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:44.399
She later attended the Ohio State University, majoring in education.

198
00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.159
Long before her name became attached to news headlines, she

199
00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.440
was simply a young woman trying to build a life

200
00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.000
that she could be proud of. More than anything, Judy

201
00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:54.759
wanted to be a mother and have a family of

202
00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:58.279
her own. She wasn't worried about chasing wealth or status.

203
00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:01.840
She wanted a quiet, ordinary life filled with love and stability.

204
00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:04.960
Little is known about her marriage except that it ultimately

205
00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.759
ended after infidelity, but Judy never viewed the relationship as

206
00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.679
a mistake because it gave her what mattered most to her,

207
00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:20.840
her daughters, Calin and Madison. Judy was complicated, layered, messy, loving, resilient, traumatized, funny, maternal,

208
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:25.279
empathetic and vulnerable all at once. She was utterly human.

209
00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:29.519
Before the horrific attack, Judy had already endured enormous physical

210
00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:32.759
and emotional pain in her early twenties. She was diagnosed

211
00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:36.279
with ovarian cancer, which was an unusually young age for

212
00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:39.519
such a diagnosis. The average age of an ovarian cancer

213
00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.679
diagnosis is sixty three years old. It's most common in

214
00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:47.159
women over fifty and especially after menopause. After a brief remission,

215
00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:50.559
the cancer returned when Judy was twenty seven, requiring a

216
00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:55.080
hysterectomy along with additional grueling treatment. In the aftermath of

217
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:58.960
the cancer, treatment came chronic pain and discomfort. Judy was

218
00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:04.679
prescribed powerful opioid medications, including OxyContin and percocet. This was

219
00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.600
during the height of America's opioid epidemic. Judy felt herself

220
00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.480
slipping into dependency of the drugs. She told her mother,

221
00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:14.399
but Bonnie allaided those fears and told her to follow

222
00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:15.600
her doctor's orders.

223
00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:16.559
But Judy was.

224
00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:19.960
Right, and when started with pain management, gradually spiraled into

225
00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:23.960
dependency and then addiction. Unable to care for her daughters

226
00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.279
during this time, her family stepped in. Caylin lived with

227
00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:32.279
Bonnie and Mattie with Danielle. For many cancer patients, opioid

228
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:36.679
medications are not recreational. They are a necessity. Severe chronic

229
00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.080
pain can be debilitating, and for decades, doctors struggled to

230
00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:43.360
manage it effectively, but in the nineteen nineties brought a

231
00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:47.320
new generation of opioid medications that flooded the market and

232
00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:51.039
promised relief for patients suffering from everything from cancer to

233
00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:51.960
back injuries.

234
00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:54.600
Pharmaceutical companies promoted these.

235
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:58.200
Drugs as safe and effective, reassuring physicians that the risk

236
00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:00.399
of addiction was low when they were priscures describe for

237
00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:04.639
legitimate pain, but in reality it was the exact opposite.

238
00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:08.840
As opioid prescriptions became increasingly common throughout the late nineteen

239
00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:12.720
nineties and early two thousands, countless patients who first received

240
00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:16.240
the medications after surgery, injury, or cancer treatments developed a

241
00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:20.519
physical dependence before they fully understood what was happening. As

242
00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:24.480
tolerance built, prescriptions often became difficult to maintain and became

243
00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:29.039
increasingly expensive. For some, heroin became the cheaper and more

244
00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:33.000
accessible alternative. It was a path that affected people from

245
00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:38.879
every walk of life, athletes, veterans, suburban parents, teenagers, cancer survivors,

246
00:11:38.919 --> 00:11:42.639
and even medical professionals. The National Institute on Drug Abuse

247
00:11:42.679 --> 00:11:46.039
reported that Ohio was the national epicenter of the crisis.

248
00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:50.039
Opioid prescriptions surged, hitting a peak of one hundred two

249
00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:53.080
point four prescriptions for every one hundred people in the

250
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:56.559
state around twenty ten, fueling a massive wave of both

251
00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:01.159
prescription pill and illicit heroin and fentanyl addiction. An addiction

252
00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:04.320
has a way of reducing people to a stereotype, reducing

253
00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:09.159
a complicated situation into a single label addict. Judy was

254
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.399
more than a label. She was a mother, a daughter,

255
00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:15.039
a cancer survivor, and a woman trying to navigate circumstances

256
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:19.559
that many people never fully saw or understood. As her

257
00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.679
insurance benefits ran out, she turned to street drugs to

258
00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:26.120
manage her addiction. She was embarrassed by her addiction issues

259
00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:28.600
and said it made her feel like scum, but she

260
00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:32.799
was determined to do better for Caylen and Mattie. Judy

261
00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:36.120
entered rehab in the spring of twenty fifteen, and she

262
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:39.759
was doing well after her treatment. Her sister, Danielle later

263
00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:41.840
said that it was the most positive that she had

264
00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:46.000
ever seen her. She was attending as many Narcotics Anonymous

265
00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.720
meetings a week as she could to stay clear headed

266
00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.639
and sober for her daughters, and Caylen and Mattie were

267
00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:53.679
living with her again for the first time.

268
00:12:53.720 --> 00:12:56.000
In years. She felt good about her future.

269
00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:58.200
And was hoping to find that love that had eluded

270
00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.840
her in her life. Then Michael Slager entered the picture

271
00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:04.639
and destroyed Judy's life and sobriety.

272
00:13:05.200 --> 00:13:08.000
The opioid epidemic that you talked about is such a

273
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:11.799
sad and tragic chapter in our country's history. I remember

274
00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.480
that there was a show Dope Sick. I think it

275
00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:17.360
was called that I thought did a really great job

276
00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:21.279
of humanizing the people that were, like you said, you know,

277
00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:26.200
that were addicted to these drugs, but also just showing

278
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:28.840
like the corporate kind of the greed that went along

279
00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.840
with this and what drove this pandemic. And it's so

280
00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:33.039
it's so angering.

281
00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:36.080
When we watched Dope Sick, it made me realize how

282
00:13:36.279 --> 00:13:37.399
it could happen to anyone.

283
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:39.120
Yeah, absolutely, anyone, Like.

284
00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:42.000
If you have you know, a procedure and prescribe these

285
00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:46.519
medications that so many people, you know, everyone from every

286
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:48.600
different walk up life was affected by.

287
00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.519
Yeah. Judy met Michael Slager after he slid into her

288
00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.159
Facebook DMS in April twenty fifteen.

289
00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.360
They had known each other years earlier, but were never

290
00:13:58.440 --> 00:13:59.679
romantically involved.

291
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.279
He told her how beautiful she was repeatedly and asked

292
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:06.720
her out until she said yes, love bombing in full effect.

293
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.600
Shortly after, he moved in with Judy and never left.

294
00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:15.399
His gruff appearance and abundance of tattoos prompted Judy's mother, Bonnie,

295
00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:18.600
to warn her not to let Caylein and Maddie around him,

296
00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.159
but eventually she softened her stance. After he confronted her,

297
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.360
Michael told her that as a Christian woman, she shouldn't

298
00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:28.759
judge him, she just needed to give him a chance. Later,

299
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.799
Bonnie said everything went downhill when Michael Slager came into

300
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:33.480
her life.

301
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:35.759
Mother's intuition usually isn't wrong.

302
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:40.759
They know Judy began using drugs again. Michael didn't use drugs,

303
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:43.559
but bought them for Judy as a means of controlling her.

304
00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:47.000
He gave her heroin for the first time only a

305
00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:50.879
month into the relationship. Things fell apart and the abuse started.

306
00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.559
In May twenty fifteen, the police were called, and in

307
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:59.039
the following weeks they returned more than ten times, frequently.

308
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.720
It was Mike who called call the police, claiming Judy

309
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:05.960
was acting crazy and high on drugs. He was very manipulative,

310
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:09.480
even to Bonnie. She'd give him money to cover bills,

311
00:15:09.519 --> 00:15:11.720
and he would use it to buy drugs for Judy.

312
00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:16.279
Then Bonnie began to notice bruises on Judy. She begged

313
00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.840
her family to help her get Michael out of her apartment,

314
00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:22.039
but he refused to leave. They tried to hide Judy

315
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.480
away in hotels, but he always found her. So this

316
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.519
seems like within a very short time of them being together.

317
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:32.919
It really is shocking. Usually in these situations you sort

318
00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:33.080
of have.

319
00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:34.200
Three to six months.

320
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:37.080
Yeah, it started started right away.

321
00:15:36.919 --> 00:15:40.840
And introducing her to heroin, Like what a what a

322
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:42.879
horrible thing to do to someone.

323
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.320
Yeah, and he didn't use so it was very it

324
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:47.440
was a very strange situation.

325
00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:48.960
Yeah, and he just saw it as a way to

326
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:53.639
keep her under his thumb. According to Lieutenant Chad Cohagen

327
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:57.240
in the documentary The Fire That Took Her, Michael Slager's

328
00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:01.679
criminal records stretched back decades and included an astonishing array

329
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:07.879
of offenses theft, assault, domestic violence, stalking, child endangerment, breaking

330
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.080
and entering, receiving stolen property, filing a false police report,

331
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:16.200
carrying a concealed weapon, and resisting arrest. At his long

332
00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:20.960
rep sheet, he had been charged with rape and sexual battery,

333
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:24.799
failed to register as a sex offender, and was repeatedly

334
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:29.200
accused of threatening and terrorizing others. There were multiple accounts

335
00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.759
of several of the offenses, especially the assault and domestic

336
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:37.799
abuse charges. Despite his lengthy criminal history and repeated encounters

337
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:42.000
with law enforcement, Michael remained free time and again. He

338
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:46.039
cycled through the criminal justice system, accumulating new charges and

339
00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.399
convictions while leaving a trail of victims in his wake.

340
00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:52.840
By the time he met Judy Malinowski in the spring

341
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:56.080
of twenty fifteen, Michael Slager was not a man with

342
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.879
a single mistake in his past. He was a career

343
00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:04.279
criminal whose record included virtually every category of crime except homicide.

344
00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:08.039
When Judy told police that she felt unsafe and threatened

345
00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:11.480
by Michael, her claims weren't followed up on. He had

346
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.240
succeeded in discrediting her with law enforcement. She was a

347
00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.640
crazy drug addict, after all, She tried to get help,

348
00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.279
but because she had a history of being an addict

349
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.720
or please were ignored. It sounds like that was kind

350
00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:28.039
of his plan, was to basically set her up with

351
00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:33.039
the police. It looked like that's really that requires some

352
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:37.400
like forethought of you know, I'm just gonna be it's

353
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:41.400
just completely abusive, and yeah, it's just really terrible. Judy

354
00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:43.559
knew that if she was ever going to break free

355
00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:46.759
from Michael's grasp, she needed to get clean. She had

356
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.200
done it before when she had entered a treatment program

357
00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:52.240
at the Woods at Parkside in Gahanna, and in the

358
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.559
summer of twenty fifteen, she was trying desperately to get back.

359
00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:58.559
On August second, she received the call she had been

360
00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:01.440
waiting for a bed had opened up. It was a

361
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.559
chance to start over, a chance to reclaim her life,

362
00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:08.039
repair her relationship with her daughters and family, and to

363
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.440
kick Michael Slager to the curb and eliminate the chaos

364
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.119
that had overtaken her life in recent months. She accepted

365
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.480
the bed and began making plans, but just hours later

366
00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:21.599
she would be fighting for her life. Michael said he

367
00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:24.400
would drive her to the facility, but when they got there,

368
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:27.480
Judy panicked and decided that she needed to speak with

369
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.440
her mother, daughters and get cigarettes to get her through

370
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.720
her time at the rehab center, and she also wanted

371
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.079
to get high on heroin one last time.

372
00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:38.039
I think a lot of people do that on their

373
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:40.200
way to rehab, they get high one last time.

374
00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:44.000
Mmmm. That's when the fight happened at the Speedway gas station.

375
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:48.400
Cameras from a nearby ATM at Heartland Bank captured much

376
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.480
of the fire. Although the video was blurried, you could

377
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.720
see Judy and Michael fighting. After she threw a soda

378
00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:56.759
on him, he went to his truck and got a

379
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.400
gas can. He doused Judy from head to toe. She

380
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:05.359
swallowed some gasolene, burning her throat and internal organs. Slager

381
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.880
was out of the frame for thirty two seconds before

382
00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:11.759
returning a green lighter in his hand. He lit the lighter,

383
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.720
leaned in toward Judy, and set her aflame, reportedly saying,

384
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:19.279
how do you like this bitch. Judy later told NBC

385
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.319
four that during the attack, Michael's eyes turned black with anger.

386
00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.279
I never knew that a human being could be so evil.

387
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:28.759
He just stood there and did nothing. The look in

388
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.160
his eyes was pure evil. The fire was so hot

389
00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:36.400
much of Judy's clothing melted onto her body. Michael retrieved

390
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.279
a fire extinguisher and attempted to put the fire out

391
00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:43.319
as emergency responders rushed to the scene. Judy had just

392
00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.680
talked to her mother Bonnie Bows about twenty minutes before

393
00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:49.480
the fire when the hospital called her and told her

394
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:51.559
she needed to get there as soon as possible to

395
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.119
see her daughter because they were intubating Judy. She was

396
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.319
confused and then stunned. When Bonnie arrived at the hospital,

397
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.960
she saw Michael first. He had also suffered minor burns

398
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.039
in the incident and required medical treatment in the hospital.

399
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.039
She didn't realize that he was the one responsible for

400
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:12.279
the fire. He kept repeating it was an accident, it

401
00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.839
was an accident. Before Bonnie saw Judy, she begged the

402
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:18.559
doctors and nurses to tell her there was hope for

403
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:23.880
her daughter. Danielle, Judy's sister, saw her first. So stunned

404
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:27.759
at her beautiful sister's appearance and suffering, she began vomiting

405
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:31.200
in the hallway. She was so badly burned all of

406
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.480
her hair was gone, as were her ears. She lost

407
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:37.720
several fingers from her left hand. Later, one of her

408
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.319
arms was amputated. She lost most of her vision, and

409
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:45.519
she could barely speak. Judy was heavily sedated, but law enforcement,

410
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:48.960
afraid that she would die before they received confirmation that

411
00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:51.799
Michael had done this to her, needed to interview her,

412
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.440
Lieutenant Chad Cohagen said, upon seeing Judy, I had never

413
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:00.759
seen trauma like that to a human body that wasn't deceased. Later,

414
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.720
when he played the ATM footage of the fire for Bonnie,

415
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:07.480
he admitted that scene has played out in dreams more

416
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.880
times than I can count. Lieutenant Koegen asked Judy two questions.

417
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.839
Did you spill gas on yourself? She subtly shook her

418
00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:19.039
head no, and then he asked, did Michael spill gas

419
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:22.960
on you? Judy nodded her head yes. He went directly

420
00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.119
to Michael's room to ask him what happened. One of

421
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.319
Judy's nurses explained in the documentary The Fire That Took

422
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:33.119
Her that medical professionals use a formula, the Bow Score,

423
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.839
to tabulate mortality based on percentage of the body that

424
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:40.720
is burned and the patient's age. Judy was thirty one

425
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.680
and about eighty percent of her body was burned, with

426
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:47.559
third and fourth degree burns. That brought her mortality rate

427
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:51.240
to one hundred and ten percent. Judy was not expected

428
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.640
to survive more than a few days. If that help

429
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:56.680
you understand, what is one hundred and ten percent That

430
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.440
seems like not even.

431
00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:02.359
Possible that she's she was going to die from her burns.

432
00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:03.640
And I have read.

433
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:06.400
Varying accounts of how much of her body was burned,

434
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:09.559
and I've heard up to ninety five percent of her

435
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:10.319
body who's burned.

436
00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:11.880
Horrific.

437
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:15.599
The skin is the largest organ in the human body,

438
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:19.920
serving as a protective barrier against infection while helping regulate

439
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:24.440
temperature and retain vital fluids. When that barrier is destroyed,

440
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:27.720
the body begins to lose the ability to protect itself.

441
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:33.400
Patients become vulnerable to infection, dehydration, organ failure, and a

442
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.640
host of other potentially fatal complications. And then there is

443
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:41.759
the pain that is otherworldly. Burn injuries are considered among

444
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.559
the most painful injuries a person can experience. Even with

445
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:51.720
powerful medications, many patients endure constant, unrelenting agony. Every movement,

446
00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:55.640
every dressing change, every skin graft, and every attempt at

447
00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.400
physical therapy can be excruciating. For Judy, pain may management

448
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.960
was made even more complicated by her history of opioid addiction.

449
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:08.880
Patients with opioid tolerance often require higher doses of medication

450
00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:12.640
to achieve the same level of relief, forcing doctors to

451
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:17.000
navigate the difficult balance between adequately treating severe pain and

452
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:21.400
managing the risks associated with long term opioid use. With

453
00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:25.200
burns covering nearly her entire body, Judy's medical team was

454
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.039
fighting not only to keep her alive, but to help

455
00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:32.319
her endure a level of suffering most people can scarcely imagine.

456
00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:36.000
To everyone's surprise, Judy survived the first night and then

457
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:41.359
the first week, defying expectations. Despite beating the odds, Judy's

458
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.279
road to recovery wasn't linear. Many of her wounds refused

459
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.160
to heal, and many of the skin grafts failed and

460
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.880
didn't knit her skin together. During her time in the hospital,

461
00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:57.039
Judy coded seven times and underwent sixty surgeries. After seven

462
00:23:57.079 --> 00:24:00.119
months in a coma, she woke up her condition in

463
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.279
a mix of slow improvements and setbacks. Her family visited

464
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:07.279
her every day. Judy was fighting to go home to

465
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.880
her children, but sadly, she never left the hospital.

466
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:13.880
I think there are no words to describe the level

467
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:15.599
of suffering that Judy went through.

468
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.680
No, it's just hard to even imagine. And I was

469
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:23.400
shocked to hear that she survived for as long as

470
00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:25.319
she did. But in some ways it's like she was

471
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:29.400
being tortured that whole time. It seems exactly. We'll be

472
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:30.599
back after a break.

473
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.599
While Judy was fighting for her life, Michael was also

474
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:43.960
in the hospital, receiving treatment for burns he sustained when

475
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:47.880
he set Judy ablaze. After Lieutenant Kohagen asked Judy his

476
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:51.039
two questions, he talked to Slager and told him that

477
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:56.039
he was under arrest for polonious assault, possession of criminal tools,

478
00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.240
and aggravated arson. Slager said, it's not what it looks like.

479
00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:03.559
He admitted that they'd been fighting and he'd grown angry

480
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:05.920
after Judy threw a soda in his face and spit

481
00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:09.799
at him, but after he'd calmed down, Slayer claimed that earlier,

482
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:13.519
when Judy had gotten gas, she'd spilled some on herself,

483
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:16.240
and when he leaned in to light a cigarette for her,

484
00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:18.240
her clothes caught on fire.

485
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.000
No one believed him.

486
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.279
Yeah, I don't believe him either.

487
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:26.000
Judy fought for her life. Another painful reality emerged. Despite

488
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.960
surviving one of the most horrific acts of domestic violence imaginable,

489
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:34.880
she was denied compensation through Ohio's Victim Assistance program because

490
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:38.119
drugs were found in her system. Under state guidelines at

491
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.640
the time, victims could be disqualified from receiving aid if

492
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.519
they were engaged in criminal activity. Still, hospitals could not

493
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:48.920
simply refuse to treat Judy because she lacked money. With

494
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:52.359
burns covering most of her body, she required immediate life

495
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:56.240
saving care and long term treatment at a specialized burn center.

496
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:59.440
Over the next two years, her medical bills climbed into

497
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.680
the million of dollars as she braved surgeries, infections, skin grafts,

498
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.720
and unimaginable pain too many. The decision fell deeply unfair,

499
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:10.960
as though Judy were being defined not by what had

500
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:14.480
been done to her, but by addiction. Judy's history of

501
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:18.599
addiction got more scrutiny than Michael Slaker's lengthy criminal record.

502
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.839
This is making me more and more angry.

503
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.960
Has I read just about every news article I could

504
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:28.640
find on this case, and his history of domestic violence, assault,

505
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:33.039
and the myriad of other offenses were never really mentioned.

506
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.519
It's so so frustrating and so frustrating that this victim's

507
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.480
compensation fund. I understand having to have like rules in

508
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.640
place for things like that, but you need to look

509
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:47.039
at the situation and make a determination based on the situation,

510
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.079
not just based on a black and white, you know

511
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:50.279
yeah type.

512
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.799
Of rules, which is a symbolic thing really, but it

513
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:57.039
just maddening. Judy remained in the hospital but planned on

514
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:02.119
testifying against Michael during his Trialani said she's fighting. She

515
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.839
may be hanging on for this trial. Prosecutors weren't sure

516
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.240
if Judy would be able to, but the threat was

517
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:12.240
enough to make Michael plead no contest in December twenty sixteen.

518
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.920
He knew that if a jury saw what he'd done

519
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.400
to Judy, they would never acquit him. Judy was gravely

520
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:22.640
disappointed because she wanted to speak her truth. Slagel was

521
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.160
sentenced to the maximum eleven years in prison. Although he

522
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.160
was charged with multiple counts, Ohio law consolidates those charges

523
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:34.039
into the most serious count in this case, aggravated arson.

524
00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:39.000
Judge Julia Lynch was disgusted and frustrated by the constraints

525
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:43.119
that the law placed on Slager's maximum sentence. Quote, I've

526
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:45.440
seen your record, so I know that you have a

527
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.960
history of domestic violence, you have a history of menacing.

528
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:52.160
You're one of those people who has no soul. You

529
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:56.240
need to be incarcerated. Take him out. It was remarkable

530
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:59.279
that Judy had survived as long as she had. Time

531
00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:03.519
and time again, she defied expectations, enduring injury after injury,

532
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:04.200
and set.

533
00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:05.200
Back after setback.

534
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:09.480
By early twenty seventeen, her body was failing. She was exhausted,

535
00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:13.920
gravely ill, and living with unimaginable pain, but her spirit

536
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:18.559
remained indefatigable. Doctors knew that she was running out of time.

537
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.839
Prosecutors understood that if Judy died, Michael Slager could be

538
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.079
charged with murder. They also knew that her voice needed

539
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:30.039
to be preserved. They approached Judy with an extraordinary request,

540
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:33.279
would she give a sworn deposition that could be used

541
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.359
in court after her death. There was one significant obstacle.

542
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.920
Judy remained hospitalized and relied on powerful pain medications simply

543
00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.839
to get through each day. If her testimony was going

544
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.400
to withstand challenges from the defense, prosecutors wanted it to

545
00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:52.440
be clear that she was alert, competent in speaking under

546
00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:56.319
her own power. That meant giving the deposition without the

547
00:28:56.359 --> 00:29:01.079
medication that she depended on, and Judy agreed. Over time,

548
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:03.920
she was slowly weaned off the pain medication that she

549
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.279
relied on the suffering she experienced is difficult to comprehend.

550
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.839
As Judy's deposition approached, Michael insisted that he should be

551
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.680
allowed to attend. He even requested that he be allowed

552
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:20.440
to question her. She can't lie if I'm there, he said.

553
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:24.279
To many, it seemed like an obvious attempt to intimidate her.

554
00:29:24.759 --> 00:29:28.680
The judge disagreed and over ruled his request, Thank goodness.

555
00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:32.559
When the day finally came, Judy was clear headed, propped

556
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:36.000
on pillows from her hospital bed for nearly three hours,

557
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.839
taking frequent SIPs of water to keep her voice strong,

558
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:41.920
she answered questions about the man who had set her

559
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:47.039
on fire. Each word required extraordinary resolve, focus, and determination.

560
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.799
By all accounts, she handled the deposition remarkably well, despite

561
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.319
the waves of pain she felt. Later, Bonnie recalled how

562
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:58.759
important it was to Judy to confront Michael in whatever

563
00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:02.720
way she could. During the deposition, Judy spoke candidly about

564
00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:06.160
the agony she lived with every day, saying, no human

565
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:09.640
being should hurt like this, not even the devil should

566
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:10.119
feel this.

567
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:10.839
Kind of pain.

568
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:15.039
But Judy's fight had become about more than her story.

569
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.559
She wanted justice for herself, but she also was speaking

570
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.160
for countless victims of domestic violence whose voices had been

571
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:28.119
silenced by fear, intimidation, or death. She understood that her testimony.

572
00:30:27.559 --> 00:30:30.279
Would likely outlive her, and she hoped it would.

573
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.279
Help ensure that Michael could never hurt another woman again

574
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:37.200
and inspire other women to leave their abusive partners. She

575
00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:40.519
wanted other women to know that domestic violence begins slowly

576
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:44.160
and subtly, sometimes with just a slightly raised voice or

577
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:49.359
an unkind word, but it escalates over time. Kyer partnered diligently.

578
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:53.599
As Judy's body broke down further, she went to hospice.

579
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:58.359
Her care shifted from life prolonging treatment to comfort focused care.

580
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:01.519
Six hundred and ninety six, six days after the fire,

581
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:05.839
Judy succumbed to her injuries on June twenty seventh, twenty seventeen.

582
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.279
Bonnie told People magazine, we will get through this. She

583
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:13.319
never made it home, and that was her goal. Instead,

584
00:31:13.400 --> 00:31:16.160
she made it to a better place. It's amazing she

585
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:18.680
was able to fight for so long. She just fought

586
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:21.359
and fought. I don't know how she did it. I

587
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.920
think it was God's will. He gave her the strength

588
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:27.839
to keep fighting. The week before her death, Judy's daughter

589
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:32.559
Caitlin testified before in Ohio State Senate hearing, quote, while

590
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:35.279
he got eleven years, my mom, my sister and I

591
00:31:35.480 --> 00:31:38.519
all got a life sentence. While we stand here today,

592
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:41.319
my mom lies in a hospital bed where she has

593
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:45.039
been for six hundred and eighty nine days. Judy's deposition

594
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:48.400
was also played at the hearing. The day after her death,

595
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:52.160
Judy's Law was introduced in the Ohio Senate. A moment

596
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.960
of silence was observed on her behalf. On September seventh,

597
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:59.720
twenty seventeen, two months after her death, Judy's Law was

598
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:03.599
signed into law. It adds six years onto a defendant

599
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:08.000
sentence if they intentionally disfigure their victim using an accelerant.

600
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:12.000
Then Ohio Governor John Kasik signed the bill into law

601
00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:14.720
with ten year old Maddie and thirteen year old Kaylan

602
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:18.759
by his side. State Representative Jim Hughes was present too.

603
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:23.119
He wrote the bill with Judy before her death. Caylen said,

604
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:27.039
our mommy didn't suffer in vain. The family's goal is

605
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:29.759
to have a similar law passed in all fifty states.

606
00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.880
They'd also like to see the law expanded with harsher

607
00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:37.640
sentences for domestic violence perpetrators, ideally a three strikes in

608
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:42.240
your out approach. Judy's mother, Bonnie Bos, said she just

609
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:44.960
wanted her story out there. She wanted to help one

610
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:48.319
other person, just one other victim, and now she will.

611
00:32:48.759 --> 00:32:51.799
She showed unbelievable strength over the last two years.

612
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:56.160
Before she died, Judy made her wishes clear. Although Michael

613
00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:59.440
Slager had set her on fire and ultimately caused her death,

614
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.960
not believed that he should be executed. She opposed the

615
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:05.799
death penalty and felt a just sentence would be life

616
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.119
in prison without the possibility of parole. It was an

617
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.440
extraordinary act of mercy from a woman who had endured

618
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:17.599
unimaginab suffering. In October twenty seventeen, Slager was indicted on

619
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:21.480
aggravated murder chargers and faced the possibility of a death sentence.

620
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.839
As his trial approached, he continued to deny that the

621
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.799
attack had been intentional, writing it a letter released to

622
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.839
the media quote, Clearly, if this was intentional, I would

623
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.119
have never tried to put the flames out and suffer

624
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.160
the burns that I did. This guy is such a

625
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:42.279
colossal piece of garbage. Ye Oh, just mind boggling to me.

626
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.960
Slager's attorneys also thought to keep Judy's videotaped deposition out

627
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.079
of court, and they lost. In April twenty eighteen, Judge

628
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.160
guy Reese ruled that the deposition would be admissible at

629
00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:57.480
trial meeting. A jury could hear Judy's account of the

630
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.079
attack even after her death. With that ruling in place

631
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:05.319
and a potential death sentence looming, Slager's legal options were narrowing.

632
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:09.159
Prosecutors were prepared to seek the death penalty, but Judy's

633
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:12.719
family chose to honor her wishes. In July twenty eighteen,

634
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:14.519
Slager accepted a plea deal.

635
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:16.360
He pleaded guilty.

636
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.800
To aggravated murder and was sentenced to life in prison

637
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:23.239
without the possibility of parole. Judy's deposition was played before

638
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:27.199
his sentencing. For Judy's family, one thing mattered above all else,

639
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:31.119
hearing him finally admit what he had done. Bonnie later

640
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:34.320
reflected taking his life was not going to save hers,

641
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.920
and she really hoped he would be able to turn

642
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:41.360
his life around incarcerated. It's commendable that he did turn

643
00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:43.559
and look at us and say that he was sorry.

644
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:45.920
Judy was such a kind hearted person.

645
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.199
She would be like mom. That's acceptable. That's what I wanted.

646
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.760
In May twenty twenty three, the documentary The Fire That

647
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:58.320
Took Her, directed by Patricia Gillespie, debuted. It's a brutal

648
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.159
look into Judy's life after the and the effects that

649
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.360
it had on her family. Michael Slager planned to be

650
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:08.000
interviewed for the documentary, but his constant disciplinary issues in

651
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:12.400
prison prevented that from happening. I watched that documentary and.

652
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:13.559
It will break your heart.

653
00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.559
You will cry, but it was really well done. It

654
00:35:16.599 --> 00:35:19.039
was on Paramount Plus and it is linked in our

655
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:23.360
show notes. Judy's mother, Bonnie, told People magazine that before

656
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.159
she died, Judy told her how she wanted her girls

657
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:28.519
to be raised. She said that they couldn't go to

658
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.519
a dance until their eleventh grade year of high school.

659
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:34.639
She said, they're just going to be a bag of hormones.

660
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.360
Make them wait to at least their third year. She

661
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.639
made me promise if they were getting a cell phone,

662
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:42.800
monitor it she may be promise I would monitor their

663
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:45.880
time on their cell phones and social media. She had

664
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:48.400
a lot of foresight, even though she was on a

665
00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:51.679
lot of pain medication. But the most important promise to

666
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.519
Judy was that her daughters go to college. Caylin graduated

667
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:57.840
from Ohio State last year and wants to go to

668
00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.239
law school. Maddie just graduated from high school and plans

669
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.880
on attending college in the fall. Judy's family created a

670
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:09.599
nonprofit in her name, Judy's Foundation. For the website, Judy's

671
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.400
Foundation helps victims and their families that have dealt with

672
00:36:12.519 --> 00:36:15.800
and are currently dealing with domestic violence, drug addiction, and

673
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:19.000
human trafficking. It was so important to Judy that other

674
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:22.079
women learned from her story. If she helped one woman,

675
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.800
Judy thought the pain and suffering that she endured would

676
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:27.800
be worth it. Judy's Foundation has been created to honor

677
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.480
her life and the bravery of Judy Malanowski. Judy has

678
00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:34.079
inspired the people around her to continue the work that

679
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:37.039
she started. While Judy was in the hospital fighting for

680
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.360
her life, she was also fighting for each and every

681
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.039
person and has had to go through domestic violence. Judy's

682
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:46.239
Foundation is currently working on projects that will assist victims

683
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:49.519
and their families for years to come, Developing software to

684
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:53.360
aid first responders when dealing with abusers, Strengthening and broadening

685
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:55.639
the scope and reach of Judy's Law, as well as

686
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:59.119
creating Judy's house that will be a complex for safety

687
00:36:59.159 --> 00:36:59.920
and resource.

688
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.599
It's such a great way to honor Judy's memory.

689
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:06.920
Judy's obituary stated that one of her many gifts on

690
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.880
earth was her ability to love all people unconditionally without judgment.

691
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:13.840
Her passion and love for people made all of those

692
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:14.559
who knew.

693
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:15.320
Her feel special.

694
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:18.599
Her free spirit and quick wit would always put a

695
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:21.880
smile on your face. Judy always put others' needs before

696
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:24.960
her own until the end. Her life mattered and she

697
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:28.119
made a difference in the world. Rest in peace, Judy.

698
00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:32.079
I don't have much to say other than, holy cow,

699
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:32.639
what a hero.

700
00:37:33.159 --> 00:37:36.719
Yeah, it's so the amount of bravery that she showed.

701
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.480
And I can't believe that she survived for two years

702
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:42.360
after those horrific.

703
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:45.039
Injuries, and each day was like a battle.

704
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:47.599
And I think you should watch the documentaries too because

705
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:50.800
you can see and like, when you first see her appearance,

706
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.559
it's jarring, But then I said to myself, she's a

707
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:57.000
human being, and you know she's still alive on her

708
00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:00.079
there and you know it's heartbreaking to see, but I

709
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:01.599
think everyone should have to see it.

710
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:04.480
The fact that she went off of her pain medications

711
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.360
to do that deposition. I mean, I've read a lot

712
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:11.000
about burn victims and the horrific, you know, pain that

713
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.719
you go through in that situation. I can't even imagine

714
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.079
how that must have, you know, felt for her to

715
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:17.440
do that.

716
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.719
Is your empathy towards Judy diminished at all because she

717
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:21.760
had addiction issues?

718
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:24.880
No, not at all. I mean, she was a human being.

719
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:28.880
She didn't deserve anything like what happened to her. A

720
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:31.519
lot of people have addiction issues, and it's you know,

721
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:34.480
it's a disease. It's a horrible thing exactly.

722
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:37.360
And did Judy deserve justice any less.

723
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:38.679
Because she had addiction issues.

724
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:41.800
I mentioned this because some people did have this attitude

725
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:45.119
for its Judy, but by I think by large, most

726
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.760
people were very supportive and heartbroken by this case.

727
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:50.719
I mean I can't even imagine having that attitude. And

728
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:52.880
that's why, you know, when we talked about that Dope

729
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.119
Sick Show, I think it really I think it's really

730
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:00.400
important to humanize people, you know, with addiction issues. You know,

731
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:03.760
they're human beings and these are you know, things that

732
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:07.400
happen and it's a chemical dependency and so we.

733
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:08.280
All have our issues.

734
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:12.480
Yeah, absolutely so, No, she totally deserves justice, and yeah,

735
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:15.639
it's disturbing that people did have that attitude toward her.

736
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:20.400
It's crazy how quickly Judy's life unraveled after Michael entered

737
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.239
her life. I mean, all of this abuse happened. Yeah,

738
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:27.039
I mean they started dating in April and this was

739
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:29.280
August when she was burned in the fire.

740
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:31.920
It just seems like he came into the relationship with

741
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:34.800
a plan like this is just what he was looking

742
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.440
for as somebody that he could abuse and control, and

743
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:40.719
as shocking how fast that happened.

744
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:43.440
Judy made it clear that she did not want Michael

745
00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:46.280
to receive the death penalty. If you were in her position,

746
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:48.559
do you think you would have made the same choice.

747
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:52.840
It's a really tough call. I mean, I am also

748
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:56.159
opposed to the death penalty, and I know people who

749
00:39:56.280 --> 00:39:58.239
are in support of the death penalty, and I totally

750
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:02.079
understand that point of view as well. So I like

751
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:05.199
to think that I would also want to be able

752
00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:08.840
to show, you know, some type of mercy in some ways. Honestly,

753
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.519
spending life in prison is probably worse than you know,

754
00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:15.880
the death penalty, because he's got to live with what

755
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:18.119
he did, you know, every day and he's living in

756
00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:19.679
an environment where I have.

757
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:21.760
Heard that he is remorseless in prison.

758
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.840
Yeah, and that doesn't surprise me. It doesn't seem like

759
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.480
someone who would ever show remorse.

760
00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:29.440
And for Caitlin and Maddie, how do you think having

761
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:31.400
Judy as a mother has affected them?

762
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:35.280
It's so sad. How old were they when she when

763
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:37.639
this incident happened, when she got burned.

764
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:40.440
I think they were eight and eleven, And initially it

765
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:42.880
was really hard for them to see her in the hospital.

766
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.599
But yeah, that's a really tough age to go through

767
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:49.960
what they went through, especially like being eight, like you

768
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:53.599
don't necessarily understand what's going on and going and seeing

769
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:55.280
your mom in the hospital like that, it's got to

770
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:56.000
be really.

771
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:00.000
There featured in the documentary and they're just these two beautiful,

772
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.639
strong kids, and they really knew what was going on.

773
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:06.119
They knew how to use their voice. And yeah, I

774
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:07.000
hope they're doing well.

775
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:08.920
Yeah, thoughts are with them, definitely.

776
00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:12.400
I hope you all found Judy's story as inspiring as

777
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:19.079
I did. I will never forget her.

778
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:22.239
Well, that was a tough one.

779
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:23.920
That was a very tough one.

780
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:26.840
Before we go, I just wanted to talk about one

781
00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:29.679
of the most controversial things maybe we've ever talked about.

782
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.960
And I said the word soda during that case instead

783
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:33.400
of pop.

784
00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:36.280
Oh yeah, and I know that. You know, you either

785
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:37.360
say soda.

786
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:39.239
Or pop, or you might say coke, coke.

787
00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:42.920
I think some places they say RC in the South.

788
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:44.440
I don't know if they still do. I think that

789
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:45.239
used to be a thing.

790
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:47.400
Yeah, but what do you say.

791
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:49.920
Well, it's funny because I grew up saying pop.

792
00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.920
I think pop was a Michigan thing.

793
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:54.719
Is definitely a Michigan thing. But at some point, I

794
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:58.440
don't know why or what happened. I transitioned to saying soda,

795
00:41:58.559 --> 00:41:59.480
and now I say soda.

796
00:41:59.559 --> 00:42:01.559
There's a and I think I showed it to you

797
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:05.559
the other day and more people say. People used to

798
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:08.840
say pop more, but now more people say soda. And

799
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:11.960
I think Michigan used to be pop, and now Michigan

800
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:14.079
is transition f real soda.

801
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:17.360
It's slowly moving north and the people are starting to

802
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:17.840
say soda.

803
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:20.960
A lot of people have shirts that say it's pop

804
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:21.559
not soda.

805
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:24.880
Yeah, that's crazy. The one that boggles my mind is

806
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:27.559
people that say coke. I used to work with a

807
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:30.320
guy who was from Texas and he would tell me

808
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:32.159
that that, oh, you would just say coke. I'm like, well,

809
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.920
what if you want a sprite or a diet coke

810
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.039
or something, Well you just say coke and then I'll

811
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:38.559
like a sprite kind of coke.

812
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:42.920
Don't they put peanuts in their coke in the South?

813
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.840
I don't know about that, but yeah, I'm pretty sure

814
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:48.519
that's a thing. And diet coke is having like a

815
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:52.159
minute right now, is it. Yeah, just I'm not sure

816
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:54.679
who does their marketing, but a lot of people are

817
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.599
wearing like diet coke shirts.

818
00:42:56.639 --> 00:42:56.960
Really.

819
00:42:57.079 --> 00:42:59.400
In high school, I had a Coca Kola shirt that

820
00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:02.440
I really loved until I build acid.

821
00:43:02.119 --> 00:43:03.280
On it in chemistry class.

822
00:43:03.360 --> 00:43:03.639
Acid.

823
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:04.559
It is really sad.

824
00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:06.320
Yeah, Oh, I hope you didn't hurt yourself.

825
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:08.119
Well, it was just like a little tiny spot. I

826
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:11.679
mean it was I can't remember what form of acid,

827
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:13.400
but it was a high school chemistry class, so it

828
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:16.760
could have been too toxic. But before we go for real,

829
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:20.039
I just wanted to mention the show that we just started,

830
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:21.239
Widow's Bay.

831
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:24.000
Oh I've Got Apple. Yeah, we've only watched one episode,

832
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:27.400
but I've been hearing like really rave reviews about it.

833
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:29.039
Like people are saying it's one of the best shows

834
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:30.639
streaming in a long time.

835
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:33.719
I have a really bad habit. I don't think I'm

836
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:37.199
alone of scrolling through my phone when I'm watching a show,

837
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:40.840
and I felt like I missed stuff. So last night

838
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:43.519
I actually watched episode one over and I'm so glad

839
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.519
I did, because I did miss some of the funny nuances.

840
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:48.880
We just get done watching the Pit. And when you

841
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:50.920
watch the Pit, you can't if you have a like,

842
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:53.840
you know, a sensitive stomach like I do, you can't

843
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:55.760
like watch the Pit. So I think that got me

844
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:57.800
in like a habit of not you.

845
00:43:57.840 --> 00:43:58.920
Have to turn away often.

846
00:43:59.320 --> 00:43:59.880
Yeah.

847
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.519
Yeah, And so anyway, I'm excited to watch more of

848
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:06.920
that this weekend, and I think I recommend it. It's

849
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.639
kind of quirky and spooky.

850
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:12.280
It feels a funny you mentioned this when we watched

851
00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:15.760
the first episode. It feels a little bit like Twin Peaks.

852
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:17.079
In a way Twin Peaks season one.

853
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:19.599
It also feels a little like a Stephen King thing

854
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:21.480
to me, but it does have some kind of quirky

855
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:22.960
humor to humor.

856
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.519
Yeah, so far I am.

857
00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:27.079
I think I'm what's name what's the name of the actor.

858
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.639
The lead actor matt Matthew Matthew, Matthew Rees. I think

859
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.480
his name is Yeah, it's so good. I like him

860
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:34.039
and everything we've seen him.

861
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.360
I think he has a lot of versatility. I feel

862
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:39.559
like if Jason Bateman's and something, he plays like the

863
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.719
exact same character every time with the same intonations. But

864
00:44:42.760 --> 00:44:44.880
I feel like Matthew Reese has more range or he

865
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:47.679
does more with his range. Sorry, Jason Bateman, if you're listening,

866
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:49.599
I think you're great, and you know.

867
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:51.280
He is great. He's good at what he does, but

868
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.239
he pretty much does pretty similar thing You're right in

869
00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:57.440
most most things that he's in. I have one more,

870
00:44:57.639 --> 00:44:59.840
very quick thing to say. I am very proud to

871
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:03.920
say I only have ten pages left in it. I

872
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:05.000
am going to finish it.

873
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:07.840
What kind of psychopath are you that you could leave

874
00:45:07.960 --> 00:45:09.480
ten pages on read?

875
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:11.480
And sometimes when I get close to the end of

876
00:45:11.480 --> 00:45:13.519
the book, I kind of slow down a little because

877
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:15.239
I sort of want it time.

878
00:45:15.320 --> 00:45:19.000
The opposite, I'll like, I've been known to skim like

879
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:21.079
the last twenty pages of a book because I want

880
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:22.880
to read it like the rest before.

881
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:25.639
Yeah, well, I will be finishing it tonight, I promise you,

882
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:27.639
So that'll be exciting, and then I'm going to go

883
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:30.039
back to review The Road to Tender Hearts.

884
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:32.440
Well, I don't even remember that book anymore. It seems

885
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:34.800
like i've I mean, I read so many books.

886
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:36.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

887
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.599
Right, I might have to start that book over. Actually

888
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:40.119
I put it down.

889
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:43.639
I'm not reading it again. I'm allowed to you fair enough.

890
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.280
We are so grateful for you here.

891
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:47.000
Listening.

892
00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:50.480
Every listen, follow, review, and share helps us keep this

893
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:53.239
show going and reminds us how lucky we are to

894
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:55.840
have such a thoughtful community. You'd like to reach out,

895
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:58.159
We're on social media, or you can email us at

896
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.800
love Mary Kill at gmail dot com. And if you

897
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:03.760
want even more, head over to patreon dot com slash

898
00:46:03.800 --> 00:46:06.559
love Marykill. For just five dollars a month. You'll get

899
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:09.800
early ad free episodes and a monthly bonus episode.

900
00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:12.119
And you may not know this yet, but we have

901
00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:14.639
a website now as well, so you can I know

902
00:46:14.679 --> 00:46:16.119
you know it, but our listeners might not.

903
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:18.880
So you can even listen to the podcast there, right, you.

904
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:21.480
Can, Yeah, go to Lovemarykill dot com. You can listen

905
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:23.639
to the podcast. You can leave us a comment, and

906
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:25.320
you can leave us a voice message.

907
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:27.880
We haven't gotten one yet, so leave us a voice

908
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:28.440
message you.

909
00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:30.679
Would love to hear, really the sound of your voice.

910
00:46:30.760 --> 00:46:32.679
I am a little behind on messages, so if you've

911
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.000
left us an email or something, I'll get around to

912
00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:40.440
it eventually, hopefully this weekend. And if you're on YouTube

913
00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:43.360
in any capacity, if you could give us a follow there,

914
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:46.760
it would really help us out. Until next time, don't

915
00:46:46.800 --> 00:47:21.760
kill your wife and don't kill your husband. The companion

916
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:23.599
with the cl