Bonus Episode: Judy Malinowski

Tina: Hi, I'm Tina.

Rich: And I'm Rich.

Tina: But there's one thing we've learned in over 20 years of marriage.

Rich: It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

Tina: And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

Rich: Welcome to Love, Marry, Kill.

Tina: Hello, Rich.

Rich: Hello, Tina.

Tina: How are you?

Rich: I'm doing good. How are you?

Tina: I'm good. It's Friday. Happy Friday.

Rich: Happy Friday.

Tina: How was your week?

Rich: It's a pretty good week. Busy week at work.

Tina: Yeah.

Rich: Yeah.

Tina: I don't think I was my best self this week.

Rich: You seem, well, you've not been feeling great.

Tina: I'm never my best self in the summer. And I wish that was not the case. But I don't have any pigment in my skin at all. And between allergies and seasonal headaches, it's just not my best self. So I apologize for any grumpiness that you had to withstand.

Rich: It was not too bad. So it's okay. Really? Yes. Okay. Not bad at all.

Tina: Do you have anything you need to get off your chest before we start?

Rich: I just have a little bit of driving advice for people.

Tina: Okay. I'm all ears. As

Rich: you know, probably the only time I really get upset and frustrated is driving.

Tina: You're a different person when you're driving.

Rich: A little bit. I

Tina: posted a funny thing on Instagram this week. It was like people walking on a sidewalk as if they were driving on the road. And what they say to each other. And it was pretty funny. That was funny. You would never say what you say in your car to someone if you were faced with something. I've gotten better over

Rich: the years. But I just have one piece of advice and it's going to sound a little counterintuitive. But don't be too nice when you're driving. When you pull up to a four -way stop, if you're the first one there, you go. You don't like wait and be polite and be like, oh, you go ahead. Because that messes everything up for everybody.

Tina: Okay. Well, what happens to me a lot, and I'm embarrassed to admit this, but I have a really short attention span. So you don't know if you're the first. I don't know if I'm the first person. I always forget. And I agree with you that it does get, you know, like tedious waiting for people. And so sometimes I go and then I am like, oh, wait, was he not supposed to go? So yeah, my advice to people, if you're riding a bicycle, don't ride in the middle of the road. I got really mad yesterday at some people that were riding side by side on a busy road. We have a lot of construction around us. So there's some detours and I got mad.

Rich: I think biking is great. I like to bike myself, although I try not to ride on the roads because it scares the crap out of me. We have

Tina: a lot of nice trails that aren't on. But it does

Rich: drive me crazy when bikers like kind of act like they own the road in a way.

Tina: Well, solid advice from the love, marry, kill people. So many podcasts today are video and I'm wondering if people really do prefer, even on Spotify, like now you can watch a podcast instead of listening to it. I prefer listening to a podcast and doing it while I'm, you know, taking a walk or cleaning or, you know, multitasking. Even sometimes I listen in the shower. So I'm just curious if other people feel that way or you would rather watch video.

Rich: Netflix has made a big investment podcast too. So they have a bunch of video podcasts that you can watch on Netflix, which to me that it's not really a podcast. If you can watch it, it's a TV show or, you know, something like that. But yeah, I don't know. And I know it drives

Tina: a lot of people crazy that we don't put our faces out there. Everyone would like a big face reveal someday. But in the days of AI, it just makes me even more resistant to do it. All right. Before we get started on today's episode, I did bring you a snack. But before I show you the snack, I owe you an apology. But then I kind of don't owe you an apology. Do you know what I mean?

Rich: I know exactly what you mean. So

Tina: I accused you today because it's a bonus episode. I was just like, I'm not going to make any snack. I'm just going to give you something that I had put away in the cupboard. But sometimes I hide things and then I cannot. I could not find it to save my life. You

Rich: accused me.

Tina: I falsely accused you. But do you want to admit what you did do?

Rich: I did eat some Oreos that you bought that you were intending to keep away from me.

Tina: Yes, I was saving the Oreos for a different recipe that I was going to make for you. But you broke into those Oreos. So I feel like I don't know if I owe you an apology or not.

Rich: I think you do. But I have Oreo. I have Oreo radar. When I know when there's Oreos in the house, I'm like, oh, ding, ding, ding. I know there's Oreos. OK, well,

Tina: the snack I have for you today is Oreo adjacent

Rich: Oreo

Tina: confetti cake, cake stirs. That

Rich: sounds good.

Tina: Yeah, I think you're not. Well, that's why I thought if you saw these in the cupboard, you would eat them. That's very likely

Rich: that I would have. I

Tina: thought that you would have eaten all of them and disposed of the box. It was like, I don't think you would have eaten all of them. You never

Rich: know.

Tina: Because you wouldn't have known that it was for the podcast. OK, well, we'll try them and we'll be right back. Did you like the confetti cake stirs?

Rich: I will say I was slightly disappointed. They were good, but not as good as I was hoping they would be.

Tina: The first bite I had, I thought, wow, this is really good. But then I was like, it's kind of sickeningly sweet.

Rich: Yeah, the texture of the cookie part is a little I don't know. It's a little harder. I thought it would be soft, kind of more cake like, but it's not. I don't know. It's OK.

Tina: I agree. Like I thought that these you said, oh, this seems stale. And I thought the same thing. But if you're like having a day at the pool or the beach or something, I think it would be a good snack to grab.

Rich: So I'm curious, where did you find them?

Tina: They were actually in the pantry, like our main pantry. They weren't in plain sight. They were behind some other things. I think I put them there and I was like, well, if he finds them, he finds them. Just to

Rich: show you, I don't look very deeply. It's funny

Tina: because I do have hiding spots and I looked in all of them and it literally took me like half an hour to find them. So I'm sorry I falsely accused you. That's

Rich: OK. I'm sorry I ate the Oreos earlier.

Tina: Judy Malinowski's story is one of the most traumatic stories we've told, but her story is important and she wanted it to be told. It's a story of absolute bravery and resilience. And I promise you won't be able to forget Judy. Today's episode does contain discussion of domestic violence. So please listen with care. This case was recommended to us by our friend Jamila in Australia. And there wasn't enough information to make a whole hour long episode, but I really wanted to tell Judy's story because it is very important. On August 2, 2015, around 5 p .m., a woman called 911 in Franklin County, Ohio. She was so distraught the dispatcher could barely understand her. The caller had just witnessed something so horrifying that she struggled to express herself through her tears. The woman was at a Speedway gas station in Gahanna, Ohio when she saw 31 -year -old Judy Malinowski and 40 -year -old Michael Slager arguing near a grassy area behind the gas station. During the confrontation, Judy threw a fountain drink she was holding at Michael, angering him further. He walked back to his truck, retrieved a red gas can, and returned seconds later. Then in full view of witnesses, he poured gasoline over Judy's head and body, covering her completely in the flammable liquid. Surveillance footage from a nearby ATM captured much of what happened. Though the video was grainy, it showed enough, the argument, the gasoline, and then Michael igniting Judy with a lighter. Flames quickly consumed her and Judy collapsed to the ground. Only after realizing that people had witnessed the attack did Michael return with a fire extinguisher to put out the fire. By then, horrified bystanders were calling 911 as the events of the previous few moments began to sink in. Judith Ann was born on August 26, 1983 to Bonnie and Thomas Hensel in New Albany, Ohio, a suburb about 15 miles northeast of Columbus. After she divorced Thomas, Bonnie married David Gorman, who became an important father figure in Judy's life after Thomas died in 1997. Bonnie and David welcomed another daughter, Danielle. Years later, after that marriage collapsed, Bonnie married Dan Bowes and together they had a son, Patrick, who was born with Down syndrome. Patrick adored Judy and said she was the best big sister. Dan also had three sons from a previous relationship. In high school, Judy was crowned Miss New Albany and Homecoming Queen. She later attended The Ohio State University majoring in education. Long before her name became attached to news headlines, she was simply a young woman trying to build a life that she could be proud of. More than anything, Judy wanted to be a mother and have a family of her own. She wasn't worried about chasing wealth or status. She wanted a quiet, ordinary life filled with love and stability. Little is known about her marriage except that it ultimately ended after infidelity. But Judy never viewed the relationship as a mistake because it gave her what mattered most to her, her daughters, Kaelyn and Madison. Judy was complicated, layered, messy, loving, resilient, traumatized, funny, maternal, empathetic, and vulnerable all at once. She was utterly human. Before the horrific attack, Judy had already endured enormous physical and emotional pain. In her early 20s, she was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, which was an unusually young age for such a diagnosis. The average age of an ovarian cancer diagnosis is 63 years old. It's most common in women over 50 and especially after menopause. After a brief remission, the cancer returned when Judy was 27, requiring a hysterectomy along with additional grueling treatment. In the aftermath of the cancer treatment came chronic pain and discomfort. Judy was prescribed powerful opioid medications including Oxycontin and Percocet. This was during the height of America's opioid epidemic. Judy felt herself slipping into dependency of the drugs. She told her mother, but Bonia laid those fears and told her to follow her doctor's orders. But Judy was right and when started with pain management, gradually spiraled into dependency and then addiction. Unable to care for her daughters during this time, her family stepped in. Kailin lived with Bonnie and Maddie with Danielle. For many cancer patients, opioid medications are not recreational. They are a necessity. Severe chronic pain can be debilitating and for decades, doctors struggled to manage it effectively. But in the 1990s, brought a new generation of opioid medications that flooded the market and promised relief for patients suffering from everything from cancer to back injuries. Pharmaceutical companies promoted these drugs as safe and effective. Reassuring physicians that the risk of addiction was low when they were prescribed for legitimate pain, but in reality, it was the exact opposite. As opioid prescriptions became increasingly common throughout the late 1990s and early 2000s, countless patients who first received the medications after surgery, injury, or cancer treatments developed a physical dependence before they fully understood what was happening. As tolerance built, prescriptions often became difficult to maintain and became increasingly expensive. For some, heroin became the cheaper and more accessible alternative. It was a path that affected people from every walk of life – athletes, veterans, suburban parents, teenagers, cancer survivors, and even medical professionals. The National Institute on Drug Abuse reported that Ohio was the national epicenter of the crisis. Opioid prescriptions surged, hitting a peak of 102 .4 prescriptions for every 100 people in the state around 2010, fueling a massive wave of both prescription pill and illicit heroin and fentanyl addiction. An addiction has a way of reducing people to a stereotype, reducing a complicated situation into a single label – addict. Judy was more than a label. She was a mother, a daughter, a cancer survivor, and a woman trying to navigate circumstances that many people never fully saw or understood. As her insurance benefits ran out, she turned to street drugs to manage her addiction. She was embarrassed by her addiction issues and said it made her feel like scum, but she was determined to do better for Kaylin and Maddie. Judy entered rehab in the spring of 2015, and she was doing well after her treatment. Her sister Danielle later said that it was the most positive that she had ever seen her. She was attending as many narcotics anonymous meetings a week as she could to stay clearheaded and sober for her daughters. And Kaylin and Maddie were living with her again. For the first time in years, she felt good about her future and was hoping to find that love that had eluded her in her life. Then, Michael Slaker entered the picture and destroyed Judy's life and sobriety.

Rich: The opioid epidemic that you talked about is such a sad and tragic chapter in our country's history. I remember that there was a show, Dopesick, I think it was called, that I thought did a really great job of humanizing the people that were, like you said, that were addicted to these drugs, but also just showing the corporate greed that went along with this and what drove this epidemic. And it's so angering.

Tina: When we watched Dopesick, it made me realize how it could happen to anyone. Yeah, absolutely. Literally anyone. If you have a procedure and you're prescribed these medications, that so many people, everyone from every different walk of life was affected by

Rich: it. Judy met Michael Slager after he slid into her Facebook DMs in April 2015.

Tina: They had known each other years earlier, but were never romantically involved.

Rich: He told her how beautiful she was repeatedly and asked her out until she said yes, love -bombing in full effect. Shortly after, he moved in with Judy and never left. His gruff appearance and abundance of tattoos prompted Judy's mother Bonnie to warn her not to let Kaylin and Maddie around him. Eventually, she softened her stance after he confronted her. Michael told her that as a Christian woman, she shouldn't judge him. She just needed to give him a chance. Later, Bonnie said everything went downhill when Michael Slager came into her life.

Tina: Mother's intuition usually isn't wrong.

Rich: They know. Judy began using drugs again. Michael didn't use drugs, but bought them for Judy as a means of controlling her. He gave her heroin for the first time. Only a month into the relationship, things fell apart and the abuse started. In May 2015, the police were called and in the following weeks, they returned more than ten times. Frequently, it was Mike who called the police, claiming Judy was acting crazy and high on drugs. He was very manipulative, even to Bonnie. She'd give him money to cover bills and he would use it to buy drugs for Judy. Then Bonnie began to notice bruises on Judy. She begged her family to help her get Michael out of her apartment, but he refused to leave. They tried to hide Judy away in hotels, but he always found her. So this seems like within a very short time of them being together. Shockingly short

Tina: amount of time.

Rich: It really is shocking. Usually in these situations, you sort of have this. Three to

Tina: six months. Yeah. Yeah, started. The abuse started right away.

Rich: And introducing her to heroin, like what a horrible thing to do to someone.

Tina: Yeah. And he didn't use. So it was very, it was a very strange situation.

Rich: Yeah. And he just saw it as a way to keep her under his thumb. According to Lieutenant Chad Cohagan in the documentary, The Fire That Took Her, Michael Slager's criminal records stretched back decades and included an astonishing array of offenses. Theft, assault, domestic violence, stalking, child endangerment, breaking and entering, receiving stolen property, filing a false police report, carrying a concealed weapon and resisting arrest. That is a long rap rap sheet. Oh, we're not done yet. He had been charged with rape and sexual battery, failed to register as a sex offender, and was repeatedly accused of threatening and terrorizing others. There were multiple accounts of several of the offenses, especially the assault and domestic abuse charges. Despite his lengthy criminal history and repeated encounters with law enforcement, Michael remained free. Time and again, he cycled through the criminal justice system, accumulating new charges and convictions while leaving a trail of victims in his wake. By the time he met Judy Malinowski in the spring of 2015, Michael Slager was not a man with a single mistake in his past. He was a career criminal whose record included virtually every category of crime, except homicide. When Judy told police that she felt unsafe and threatened by Michael, her claims weren't followed up on. He had succeeded in discrediting her with law enforcement. She was a crazy drug addict, after all. She tried to get help, but because she had a history of being an addict, her pleas were ignored. It sounds like that was kind of his plan, was to basically set her up with the police. Yeah, exactly. That's really, that requires some like forethought of, you know, I'm just going to be... Yeah, it's just really terrible. Judy knew that if she was ever going to break free from Michael's grasp, she needed to get clean. She had done it before when she had entered a treatment program at the woods at Parkside in Gahanna, and in the summer of 2015, she was trying desperately to get back. On August 2nd, she received the call she had been waiting for. A bed had opened up. It was a chance to start over. A chance to reclaim her life, repair her relationship with her daughters and family, and to kick Michael Slager to the curb and eliminate the chaos that had overtaken her life in recent months. She accepted the bed and began making plans, but just hours later, she would be fighting for her life. Michael said he would drive her to the facility, but when they got there, Judy panicked and decided that she needed to speak with her mother, daughters, and get cigarettes to get her through her time at the rehab center. And she also wanted to get high on heroin one last time.

Tina: I think a lot of people do that on their way to rehab. They get high one last time.

Rich: That's when the fight happened at the Speedway gas station. Cameras from a nearby ATM at Heartland Bank captured much of the fire. Although the video was blurry, you could see Judy and Michael fighting. After she threw a soda on him, he went to his truck and got a gas can. He doused Judy from head to toe. She swallowed some gasoline, burning her throat and internal organs. Slager was out of the frame for 32 seconds before returning, a green lighter in his hand. He lit the lighter, leaned in toward Judy, and set her aflame, reportedly saying, how do you like this, bitch? Judy later told NBC4 that during the attack, Michael's eyes turned black with anger. I never knew that a human being could be so evil. He just stood there and did nothing. The look in his eyes was pure evil. The fire was so hot, much of Judy's clothing melted onto her body. Michael retrieved a fire extinguisher and attempted to put the fire out as emergency responders rushed to the scene. Judy had just talked to her mother, Bonnie Bowes, about 20 minutes before the fire. When the hospital called her and told her she needed to get there as soon as possible to see her daughter because they were intubating Judy, she was confused and then stunned. When Bonnie arrived at the hospital, she saw Michael first. He had also suffered minor burns in the incident and required medical treatment in the hospital. She didn't realize that he was the one responsible for the fire. He kept repeating, it was an accident, it was an accident. Before Bonnie saw Judy, she begged the doctors and nurses to tell her there was hope for her daughter. Danielle, Judy's sister, saw her first. So stunned at her beautiful sister's appearance and suffering, she began vomiting in the hallway. She was so badly burned. All of her hair was gone, as were her ears. She lost several fingers from her left hand. Later, one of her arms was amputated. She lost most of her vision, and she could barely speak. Judy was heavily sedated, but law enforcement, afraid that she would die before they received confirmation that Michael had done this to her, needed to interview her. Lieutenant Chad Kohagan said upon seeing Judy, I had never seen trauma like that to a human body that wasn't deceased. Later, when he played the ATM footage of the fire for Bonnie, he admitted, that scene has played out in dreams more times than I can count. Lieutenant Kohagan asked Judy two questions. Did you spill gas on yourself? She subtly shook her head no, and then he asked, did Michael spill gas on you? Judy nodded her head, yes. He went directly to Michael's room to ask him what happened. One of Judy's nurses explained in the documentary, The Fire That Took Her, that medical professionals use a formula, the Bowe score, to tabulate mortality based on percentage of the body that is burned, and the patient's age. Judy was 31, and about 80 % of her body was burned, with 3rd and 4th degree burns. That brought her mortality rate to 110%. Judy was not expected to survive more than a few days, if that. Help me understand, what is 110 % that seems like not even possible?

Tina: And I have read varying accounts of how much of her body was burned, and I've heard up to 95 % of her body was burned.

Rich: The skin is the largest organ in the human body, serving as a protective barrier against infection while helping regulate temperature and retain vital fluids. When that barrier is destroyed, the body begins to lose the ability to protect itself. Patients become vulnerable to infection, dehydration, organ failure, and a host of other potentially fatal complications. And then there is the pain that is otherworldly. Burn injuries are considered among the most painful injuries a person can experience. Even with powerful medications, many patients endure constant, unrelenting agony. Every movement, every dressing change, every skin graft, and every attempt at physical therapy can be excruciating. For Judy, pain management was even more complicated by her history of opioid addiction. Patients with opioid tolerance often require higher doses of medication to achieve the same level of relief, forcing doctors to navigate the difficult balance between adequately treating severe pain and managing the risks associated with long -term opioid use. With burns covering nearly her entire body, Judy's medical team was fighting not only to keep her alive, but to help her endure a suffering most people can scarcely imagine. To everyone's surprise, Judy survived the first night and then the first week, defying expectations. Despite beating the odds, Judy's road to recovery wasn't linear. Many of her wounds refused to heal and many of the skin grafts failed and didn't knit her skin together. During her time in the hospital, Judy coded seven times and underwent 60 surgeries. After seven months in a coma, she woke up. Her condition a mix of slow improvements and setbacks. Her family visited her every day. Judy was fighting to go home to her children, but sadly she never left the hospital.

Tina: I think there are no words to describe the level of suffering that Judy went through.

Rich: No, it's just hard to even imagine. And I was shocked to hear that she survived

Tina: for

Rich: as long as she did, but in some ways it's like she was, you know, being tortured that whole time. It seems like

Tina: we'll

Rich: be back after a break.

Tina: While Judy was fighting for her life, Michael was also in the hospital receiving treatment for burns he'd sustained when he set Judy ablaze. After Lieutenant Kohagan asked Judy his two questions, he talked to Slager and told him that he was under arrest for felonious assault, possession of criminal tools, and aggravated arson. Slager said, it's not what it looks like. He admitted that they'd been fighting and he'd grown angry after Judy threw a soda in his face and spit at him. But after he'd calmed down, Slager claimed that earlier, when Judy had gotten gas, she'd spilled some on herself. And when he leaned in to light a cigarette for her, her clothes caught on fire. No one believed him.

Rich: Yeah, I don't believe him either.

Tina: As Judy fought for her life, another painful reality emerged. Despite surviving one of the most horrific acts of domestic violence imaginable, she was denied compensation through Ohio's victim assistance program because drugs were found in her system. Under state guidelines at the time, victims could be disqualified from receiving aid if they were engaged in criminal activity. Still, hospitals could not simply refuse to treat Judy because she lacked money. With burns covering most of her body, she required immediate life -saving care and long -term treatment at a specialized burn center. Over the next two years, her medical bills climbed into the millions of dollars as she braved surgeries, infections, skin grafts, and unimaginable pain. To many, the decision felt deeply unfair, as though Judy were being defined not by what had been done to her, but by addiction. Judy's history of addiction got more scrutiny than Michael Slager's lengthy criminal record.

Rich: Oh, this is making me more and more angry. I

Tina: read just about every news article I could find on this case. And his history of domestic violence, assault, and the myriad of other offenses were never really mentioned.

Rich: Judy remained

Tina: in the hospital, but planned on Michael during his trial. Bonnie said, she's fighting, she may be hanging on for this trial. Prosecutors weren't sure if Judy would be able to, but the threat was enough to make Michael plead no contest in December 2016. He knew that if a jury saw what he'd done to Judy, they would never acquit him. Judy was gravely disappointed because she wanted to speak her truth. Slager was sentenced to the maximum, 11 years in prison. Although he was charged with multiple counts, Ohio law consolidates those charges into the most serious count, in this case, aggravated arson. Judge Julia Lynch was disgusted and frustrated by the constraints that the law placed on Slager's maximum sentence. Quote, I've seen your record, so I know that you have a history of domestic violence, you have a history of menacing, you're one of those people who has no soul. You need to be incarcerated. Take him out. It was remarkable that Judy had survived as long as she had. Time and time again, she defied expectations, enduring injury after injury and setback after setback. By early 2017, her body was failing. She was exhausted, gravely ill, and living with unimaginable pain, but her spirit remained indefatigable. Doctors knew that she was running out of time. Prosecutors understood that if Judy died, Michael Slager could be charged with murder. They also knew that her voice needed to be preserved. They approached Judy with an extraordinary request. Would she give a sworn deposition that could be used in court after her death? There was one significant obstacle. Judy remained hospitalized and relied on powerful pain medications simply to get through each day. If her testimony was going to withstand challenges from the defense, prosecutors wanted to be clear that she was alert, competent, and speaking under her own power. That meant giving the deposition without the medication that she depended on. And Judy agreed. Over time, she was slowly weaned off the pain medication that she relied on. The suffering she experienced is difficult to comprehend. As Judy's deposition approached, Michael insisted that he should be allowed to attend. He even requested that he be allowed to question her. She can't lie if I'm there, he said. To many, it seemed like an obvious attempt to intimidate her. The judge disagreed and overruled his request.

Rich: Thank goodness.

Tina: When the day finally came, Judy was clearheaded, propped on pillows from her hospital bed for nearly three hours, taking frequent sips of water to keep her voice strong. She answered questions about the man who had set her on fire. Each required extraordinary resolve, focus, and determination. By all accounts, she handled the deposition remarkably well, despite the waves of pain she felt. Later, Bonnie recalled how important it was to Judy to confront Michael in whatever way she could. During the deposition, Judy spoke candidly about the agony she lived with every day, saying, no human being should hurt like this. Not even the devil should feel this kind of pain. But Judy's fight had become about more than her story. She wanted justice for herself, but she also was speaking for countless victims of domestic violence whose voices had been silenced by fear, intimidation, or death. She understood that her testimony would likely outlive her, and she hoped it would help ensure that Michael could never hurt another woman again and inspire other women to leave their abusive partners. She wanted other women to know that domestic violence begins slowly and subtly, sometimes with just a slightly raised voice or an unkind word, but it escalates over time. Take your partner diligently.

Rich: As Judy's body broke down further, she went to hospice. Her care shifted from life -prolonging treatment to comfort -focused care. 696 days after the fire, Judy succumbed to her injuries on June 27, 2017. Bonnie told People magazine, The week before her death, Judy's daughter Kalen testified before an Ohio State Senate hearing, It adds six years onto a defendant's sentence if they intentionally disfigure their victim using an accelerant. Then, Ohio Governor John Kasich signed the bill into law with 10 -year -old Maddie and 13 -year -old Kalen by his side. State Representative Jim Hughes was present, too. He wrote the bill with Judy before her death. Kalen said, to see the law expanded with harsher sentences for domestic violence perpetrators, ideally a three -strikes -and -you're -out approach. Judy's mother, Bonnie Bowes, said,

Tina: Before she died, Judy made her wishes clear. Although Michael Slager had set on fire and ultimately caused her death, she did not believe that he should be executed. She opposed the death penalty and felt a just sentence would be life in prison without the possibility of parole. It was an extraordinary act of mercy from a woman who had endured unimaginable suffering. In October 2017, Slager was indicted on aggravated murder charges and faced the possibility of a death sentence. As his trial approached, he continued to deny that the attack had been intentional, writing in a letter released to the media, This guy is such a colossal piece of garbage. Just mind -boggling to me. Slager's attorneys also fought to keep Judy's videotaped deposition out of court, and they lost. In April 2018, Judge Guy Reese ruled that the would be admissible at trial, meaning a jury could hear Judy's account of the attack even after her death. With that ruling in place and a potential death sentence looming, Slager's legal options were narrowing. Prosecutors were prepared to seek the death penalty, but Judy's family chose to honor her wishes. In July 2018, Slager accepted a plea deal. He pleaded guilty to aggravated murder and was sentenced to life in prison without the parole. Judy's deposition was played before his sentencing. For Judy's family, one thing mattered above all else, hearing him finally admit what he had done. Bonnie later reflected, taking his life was not going to save hers, and she really hoped he would be able to turn his life around incarcerated. It's commendable that he did turn and look at us and say that he was sorry. Judy was such a kind -hearted person. She would be like, Mom, that's acceptable. That's what I wanted. In May 2023, the documentary, The Fire That Took Her, directed by Patricia Gillespie, debuted. It's a brutal look into Judy's life after the fire and the effects that it had on her family. Michael Slager planned to be interviewed for the documentary, but his constant disciplinary issues in prison prevented that from happening. I watched that documentary and it will break your heart, you will cry, but it was really well done. It was on Paramount Plus, and it is linked in our show notes. Judy's mother, Bonnie, told People magazine that before she died, Judy told her she wanted her girls to be raised. She said that they couldn't go to a dance until their 11th grade year of high school. She said, they're just going to be a bag of hormones. Make them wait to at least their third year. She made me promise if they were getting a cell phone, monitor it. She made me promise I would monitor their time on their cell phones and social media. She had a lot of foresight, even though she was on a lot of pain medication. But the most important promise to Judy was that her daughters go to college. Kaylin graduated from Ohio State last year and wants to go to law school. Maddie just graduated from high school and plans on attending college in the fall. Judy's family created a non -profit in her name, Judy's Foundation. Her the Judy's Foundation helps victims and their families that have dealt with and are currently dealing with domestic violence, drug addiction and human trafficking. It was so important to Judy that other women learned from her story. She helped one woman Judy thought the pain and suffering that she endured would be worth it. Judy's Foundation has been created to honor her life and the bravery of Judy Malinowski. Judy has inspired the people around her to continue the work that she started. While Judy was in the hospital fighting for her life, she was also fighting for each and every person and has had to go through domestic violence. Judy's Foundation is currently working on projects that will assist victims and their families for years to come. Developing software to aid first responders when dealing with abusers, strengthening and broadening the scope and reach of Judy's law, as well as creating Judy's house that will be a complex for safety and resource.

Rich: It's such a great way to honor Judy's memory.

Tina: Judy's obituary stated that one of her many gifts on earth was her ability to love all people unconditionally without judgment. Her passion and love for people made all of those who knew her feel special. Her free spirit and quick wit would always put a smile on your face. Judy always put others needs before her own until the end. Her life mattered and she made a difference in the world. Rest in peace, Judy. I don't have much to say other than holy cow, what a hero.

Rich: Yeah, it's so it's the amount of bravery that she showed and I can't believe that she survived for two years after those horrific injuries and

Tina: and each day was like a battle and I think you should watch the documentary too because you can see and like when you first see her appearance, it's jarring. But then I said to myself, she's a human being and you know, she's still alive and you know, it's heartbreaking to see but I think everyone should have to see it.

Rich: The fact that she went off of her pain medications to do that deposition. I mean, I've read a lot about burn victims and the horrific, you know, pain that you go through in that situation. I can't even imagine how that must have, you know, felt for her to do that.

Tina: Is your empathy towards Judy diminished at all because she had addiction issues?

Rich: No, not not at all. I mean, she was a human being. She didn't deserve anything like what happened to her. A lot of people have addiction issues and it's, you know, it's a disease. It's a horrible thing.

Tina: Exactly. And did Judy deserve justice any less because she had addiction issues? I mentioned this because some people did have this attitude towards Judy, but I think by large, most people were very disappointed and heartbroken by this case.

Rich: I mean, I can't even imagine having that attitude and that's why, you know, when we talked about that dope sick show, I think it really, I think it's really important to humanize people, you know, with addiction issues. You know, they're human beings and these are, you know, things that happen and it's a chemical dependency. And so we

Tina: all have our issues.

Rich: Yeah, absolutely. So no, she totally deserves justice and it's yeah, it's disturbing that people did have that attitude toward her.

Tina: It's crazy how quickly Judy's life unraveled after Michael entered her life. I mean, all of this abuse happened. I mean, they started dating in April and this was August when she was burned in the fire.

Rich: Yeah, it just seems like he came into the relationship with a plan. Like this is just what he was looking for as somebody that he could abuse and control and yeah, it's shocking how fast that happened.

Tina: Judy made it clear that she did not want Michael to receive the death penalty. If you were in her position, do you think you would have made the same choice?

Rich: It's a really tough call. I mean, I am also opposed to the death penalty and I know people who are in support of the death penalty and I totally understand that point of view as well. So I like to think that I would also want to be able to show, you know, some type of mercy in some ways. Honestly, spending life in prison is probably worse than, you know, the death penalty because he's got to live with what he did, you know, every day and he's living in an environment where

Tina: I have heard that he is remorseless in prison. Yeah, that doesn't surprise

Rich: me. Yeah, it doesn't seem like someone who would ever show remorse.

Tina: And for Kailin and Maddie, how do you think having Judy as a mother has affected them?

Rich: Oh, that's so it's so sad. How old were they when she when this incident happened when she got burned?

Tina: I think they were eight and 11 and initially it was really hard for them to see her in the hospital. But yeah,

Rich: that's a really tough age to go through what they absolutely went through, especially like being eight, like you don't necessarily understand what's going on and going and seeing your mom in the hospital like that. It's got to be really they're featured in

Tina: the documentary and they're just these two beautiful, strong kids and they really knew what was going on. Yeah, they knew how to use their voice. And yeah, I hope they're doing well. Yeah, thoughts are with them.

Rich: Definitely.

Tina: I hope you all found Judy's story as inspiring as I did. I will never forget her. Well, that was a tough one.

Rich: That was a very tough one.

Tina: Before we go, I just wanted to talk about one of the most controversial things maybe we've ever talked about. And I said the word soda during that case instead of pop.

Rich: Oh, yeah.

Tina: And I know that, you know, you either say soda or pop or you say coke. Coke. I think some places they say RC in the south. I don't know if they still do. I think that used to be a thing. Yeah. But what do you say?

Rich: Well, it's funny because I grew up saying pop. I think pop was a Michigan thing is definitely a Michigan thing. But at some point, I don't know why or what happened. I transitioned to saying soda. And now I say soda.

Tina: There's a map and I think I showed it to you the other day and more people say people used to say pop more. But now more people say soda. And I think Michigan used to be pop and now Michigan has transitioned to soda. It's slowly

Rich: moving north and the people are starting to say soda.

Tina: A lot of people have shirts that say it's pop, not soda. Yeah, that's

Rich: that's crazy. The one that boggles my mind is people that say coke. I used to work with a guy who was from Texas and he would tell me that, that, oh, you would just say coke. I'm like, well, what if you want to sprite or a diet coke or well, you just say coke and then I'll like a sprite kind of coke or whatever.

Tina: Don't they put peanuts in their coke in the south?

Rich: I don't know about that but

Tina: yeah, I'm pretty sure that's a thing. And diet coke is having like a minute right now. Is it? Yeah, like just I'm not sure who does their marketing but a lot of people are wearing like diet coke shirts. Really? In high school, I had a Coca -Cola shirt that I really loved until I spilled acid on it in chemistry class.

Rich: Acid on it? It was really

Tina: sad. Yeah.

Rich: Oh, I hope you didn't hurt yourself.

Tina: Well, it was just like a little tiny spot. I mean it was I can't remember what form of acid but it was in high school chemistry class so it couldn't have been too toxic but before we go for real, I just wanted to mention the show that we just started, Widows Bay on Apple. Yeah,

Rich: we've only watched one episode but I've been hearing like really

Tina: rave

Rich: reviews about it. Like people are saying it's one of the best shows streaming in a long time.

Tina: I have a really bad habit. I don't think I'm alone of scrolling through my phone when I'm watching a show and I felt like I missed stuff so last night I actually watched episode one over and I'm so glad I did because I did miss some of the funny nuances. We just got done watching the pit and when you watch the pit you can't if you have a like you know a sensitive stomach like I do you can't like watch the pit so I think that got me in like a habit of not looking at the screen as much. You have to turn

Rich: away often.

Tina: Yeah, yeah and so anyway I'm excited to watch more of that this weekend and I think I recommend it. It's kind of quirky and spooky. It feels funny.

Rich: You mentioned this when we watched the first episode. It feels a little bit like Twin Peaks in a way.

Tina: Twin Peaks season one. It

Rich: also feels a little like a Stephen King thing to me but it does have some kind of quirky humor to it. Yeah,

Tina: so far I'm I think I'm excited to watch more. What's

Rich: the name of the actor, the Matthew Reese? I think his name is. Yeah, he's so good. I like him in everything we've seen him.

Tina: I think he has a lot of versatility. I feel like if Jason Bateman's in something he plays like the exact same character every time with the same intonations but I feel like Matthew Reese has more range or he does more with his range. Sorry Jason Bateman if you're listening. I think you're great and all but you know.

Rich: He is great. He's good at what he does but he pretty much does pretty similar thing you're right in most most things that he's in. I have one more very quick thing to say. I am very proud to say I only have 10 pages left in it. I am going to finish it. What

Tina: kind of psychopath are you that you could leave 10 pages unread?

Rich: And sometimes when I get close to the end of a book I kind of slow down a little because I sort of want it to last a little longer. I'm the

Tina: opposite. I like I've been known to skim like the last 20 pages of a book because I want to read it like the rest before.

Rich: Yeah well I will be finishing it tonight. I promise you so that'll be exciting and then I'm review the road to tender hearts. Well I don't even remember that book anymore. It seems like it's a distance. I mean

Tina: I read so many books. Yeah yeah yeah all right. I might

Rich: have to start that book over

Tina: actually

Rich: because I put it down. I'm not

Tina: reading it again out loud to you. All right

Rich: fair enough.

Tina: We are so grateful for you here listening. Every listen follow review and share helps us keep this show going and reminds us how lucky we are to have such a thoughtful community. If you'd like to reach out we're on social media or you can email us at lovemerrykill at gmail .com and if you want even more head over to patreon .com lovemerrykill for just five dollars a month you'll get early ad free episodes and a monthly bonus episode.

Rich: And you may not know this yet but we have a website now as well so you can. I know you know it but our listeners might not. So

Tina: you can even listen to the podcast there right?

Rich: You can yeah go to lovemerrykill .com you can listen to the podcast you can leave us a comment and you can leave us a voice message.

Tina: We haven't gotten one yet so leave us a voice message. We would love to hear the

Rich: sound of your voice.

Tina: I am a little behind on messages so if you've left us an email or something I'll get around to it eventually hopefully this weekend. And if you're on youtube in any capacity if you could give us a follow there it would really help us out. Until next time don't kill your friends.