Cari Farver, Liz Golyar, and Dave Kroupa - Part 1

0:00 Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to love, Mary Kill Hi, Tina, Hey Rich, How are you? I'm great? How are you? I'm great? Also, it's good we're on the same page. I'm very excited to hear the story that you have to tell me today. I know you've been working really hard. I am excited to tell you because it's just a crazy story. But before we get to that, I am also excited for another reason. You know why I do because we have merch and we've been pretty to do it for a long time.

0:49 But we're just releasing just a few pieces. We went with a local printer because I really wanted to be able to see and feel the fabrics and just we have a couple of sweatshirts and a couple of T shirts. We have like a unisex which our vendor really did not want to do the ladies cut, but I was like, oh, I think we should do a ladies cut, which is, you know, a smaller fit, and he just was very cautious and said, well, make sure you tell everyone to order at least one size up for the ladies fit, if not two sizes up if you want it to be a little looser. Yeah. And you can find the link to order this on our show notes or on our Instagram media. Yeah, so it's exciting. I mean, who wouldn't want a love Mary Kill sweatshirt for Christmas? I know I would be happy to get one, So yeah. I sometimes I think I forget that people leave their houses because I'm home so much and I'm always wearing a sweatshirt and sweatpants or joggers or whatever. So yeah, you might not want to wear it out of the house, but if you do, that'd be great. But they're nice quality, That's what I wanted to say. They're really nice quality. I think you'll be really happy if you order, so check that out. The store is open for a limited time. It closes on November twenty first at twelve am, so Tuesday night, the twenty first is your last chance to order. We will not be able to extend it to get the shirts printed in time for Christmas or just December. Cool, and you have one other thing that we're working on. Also, I also had some stickers printed and assuming that they turn out okay. If so the first hundred people that message

2:23 me and send me your address, I will be happy to mail you a sticker, assuming that they turn out okay. But they're vinyl stickers and you can put them on a lot of things. You can put them on your car, my laptop, you could put it on your water bottle, whatever. And we are working on coffee mugs because a lot of people have asked for those, but dang it, coffee mugs are a lot more complicated than are complicated because our shirt guy doesn't doesn't make coffee mugs. He was like, no, you know, which just baffles me. But I'm like okay, So anyway, we're working on that, but you have to order like quite a few, and I don't want to order seventy two coffee mugs because I don't know if they're going to turn out. So it's we're working at it, Yes we are. Okay, Sorry that was way too much business.

3:07 Yeah, well let's move on to a snack. So we have a special snack today. We mentioned it last week, but our listener, Kelly from New Mexico, very kindly sent us some Kelly, we're just idiots. Oh, they sat in our PO box for two months because we didn't check our pof We thought that our PO our post office would notify us if there was something there, and they never did. They didn't. You would think that the small town we live in that they would not be too busy and they'd be really excited to notify people. But no, yeah, it turns out they don't do it. But anyway, we're going to try these anyway. And these are they're called Bisco cheetos, which is apparently a Southwestern holiday tradition cookie of New Mexico. It is the official state cookie of New Mexico, and Kelly says that these cookies are a holiday staple in the Southwest.

3:57 So we're going to try them out quick. Thank you so much, Kelly. So sorry that we are idiots and didn't check our PO box. If anyone else wants to send us a snack, don't feel obligated. But our PO box is PO box one one one Dexter, Michigan for eight one three zero. That's correct. Yeah, yeah cool. Let's take quick break and we'll be right back. What did you think of the Bisco cheeto. I thought it was delicious. It was really good too, and you think that maybe it'd be a little stale, but they, Kelly, they were. They were really good. They're really good. I was afraid I wouldn't really like them because the brochure it says they have a they're flavored with anise seed, which I hate liquor, which is very picky about spices. But it's very uh some control that flavor. Yeah, but the texture is really delightful, very good. Tasted like a like a spicy short bread. Yeah.

4:53 Yeah, well I guess it was. I tasted cinnamon mostly, yep. Yeah, thank you so much, Kelly, Yeah, thank you. So I did a little bit research that I wanted to share because I was interested the fact that it said this was New Mexico's state cookie. Love Mary kill. We're always going to give you a little more information than you want. You probably want exactly. So I was curious, though, how many other states have a state cookie? How many do you think? Well, I would hope every state has a state cookie. Only three, Only three states have an official state cookie. So New Mexico was the first with the Bisco cheeto that became their official state cookie. In nineteen eighty nine, Massachusetts made the chocolate chip cookie their official state cookie. Oh, I know, they took the chocolate chip cookie. I mean everyone else is probably like mea up bunkle, I know. And then just recently, in June of twenty twenty three, Alabama's governor signed a bill making the Yellowhammer their official state cookie.

5:46 You never heard of it? Well, they are giant, slightly soft oatmeal cookies sandwiching a peanut buttery cream filling. Sounds all right, good? Yeah, And I did check on Michigan, and there was a bill introduced in Michigan in nineteen ninety four to name the Michigan Treasure Cookie as the official state cookie, which I had never heard of. You recently, Yeah, I sent you the recipe a couple of days ago, but I had never heard of it. Yeah, it's essentially like a chocolate chip cookie with cherries in it. But the bill never passed together. Well, I am going to get Rechen Whitmer on the phone, and I follow her on Instagram, so and yeah, we're going to work on that. We will, Okay, So today's case. I kind of alluded to it earlier, but this is probably the most insane story that I've researched so far. I've all the podcasts I listened to about this. Everyone started with this story is the craziest story, and I was like, yeah, whatever, it's a crazy story, right. It's a story of jealousy, obsession, and cruelty that went on way too long before some tenacious investigators finally uncovered the truth. It actually reminds me a little bit of the movie Fatal Attraction, but it's crazier than that.

6:57 And it is kind of a long story. It's going to be two parter, and it's going to be a wild ride. So yes, buckle up. Our story begins in the summer of twenty twelve. Thirty four year old Dave Krupa had recently ended a long term relationship, like thirteen or fourteen years long, with a woman named Amy Flora, who was the mother of his two children. Dave was a good guy, but not someone who wanted to be tied down. While Amy wanted to get married, Dave was never on board with the idea, and eventually the couple decided to call it quits. Dave moved out of their house in Council Bluffs, Iowa, to a sparsely furnished bachelor pad apartment about twenty minutes away across the Missouri River in Omaha, Nebraska, which was near where he worked managing an auto repair shop.

7:46 They agreed to work together for the sake of the kids, though, who were eleven and nine at this time, Dave and Amy maintained a friendly relationship and Dave saw the kids regularly. After Dave moved into his new apartment, he decided it was time to get out there and start dating again. Even though he hadn't been married, he had been as good as married for the last dozen or so years, so getting back into the dating world was a little bit scary. He quickly found that things had changed since he was last on the market, because there was a whole new world of dating apps out there where one could meet and date as many women as he wanted. This suited Dave because while he wanted to have fun and socialize, he absolutely did not want commitment. He was independent and determined to stay that way. He made it clear on his dating profile that he was looking for something casual, and he was up front with that requirement whenever he met anyone in person.

8:41 The first woman that Dave met online was Shanna Gallier, better known as Liz. She was about his age, had two kids around the same age as his, and they seemed to hit her off. They saw each other four or five times in the summer of twenty twelve before Dave finally worked up the new to kiss her. She asked what had taken him so long, and he replied, because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Their relationship became intimate and they seemed to have chemistry together. Dave and Liz had fun and the sex was good, but he made it clear to her that he was going to see other women, and he encouraged her to see other guys. She said that just wasn't her style. Dave said, fine, but don't expect me to change. Despite Dave setting clear boundaries up front, Liz could be very clingy and she was always pushing him for more of a commitment.

9:31 She got jealous of amy when Dave would go over to her house to spend time with his kids. Liz would sometimes show up at Dave's apartment without warning, and she would send him long emails about their relationship and looking for him to make a commitment. Oh boy, she would ask to just make a one month commitment. Dave would say no, or at times he would half heartedly agree to some type of short term exclusivity just to kind of move on from the discus. He cared about Liz and he didn't want to hurt her, so he kept the relationship going, but he kept her at arm's length while she kept pushing for more. Did Liz think that Dave was her twin flame? I don't know. We should talk about twin Flames sometime.

10:18 We're watching to show on Amazon called It's not called twin Flames. It's based on the podcast twin Flames. We can talk about that at the end. Yeah, it's pretty crazy story. Actually, So Dave casually dated some other women that he met online, but in the fall of twenty twelve, he met Carrie Farvar in a more traditional way. She came into his shop to have some repair work done on her Ford Explorer. He was instantly attracted to her, and he sensed that she was attracted to him as well. He wanted to ask her out right there, but he thought, well, what if I've misread the situation. I could get into a lot of trouble at work if I asked her out and she's not interested, so he kept it professional and she left the shop, but he didn't stop thinking about her, and low and hold. Two weeks later, whose profile does he come across?

11:03 And his dating app Carrie Farver's. He sent her a message saying, Hey, I know you. She responded, and a little while later she stopped back in his shop to chat and they exchanged phone numbers. It turned out Dave hadn't misread the signals he was getting from Carrie. In fact, after she left the shop the first time, she actually created an account on the plenty of Fish dating site, hoping that Dave was on the site and that they would connect. Dave and Carrie's first date was on a Monday evening, October twenty ninth of twenty twelve. They met at Applebee's in the mall and they hit it off right away. Dave could see that Carrie was smart, funny, and easygoing. She was a software developer for a company called West Corporation, which happened to be located walking distance from Dave's apartment. Carrie lived about thirty miles east of Omaha in the small town of Macedonia, Iowa, where she had grown up. She was thirty seven, twice married and twice divorced, and she had full custody of her fourteen year old son Maxwell.

12:07 Her mom, Nancy and her stepdad Mark also lived in Macedonia, and they helped Carrie by having Maxwell stay with them whenever she needed. While they were at Applebee's on their first date, Dave's phone started blowing up with texts and calls. He saw that it was Liz, and he did his best to ignore it so as not to be rude to carry. But after about twenty texts and calls within a ten minute period, he thought that something might be seriously wrong, so he excused himself and he called Liz back. She said that she had less some things at his apartment and she really needed them back. He told her that he was on a date and that he was sure it could wait. He hung up and went back to Carrie. They finished eating, hung out a bit longer, and then Dave asked Carrie if she wanted to come back to his place, and she agreed. Once they got back to Dave's apartment, his phone started blowing up again, and soon after that apartment intercom buzzer went off. It was Liz saying I need my stuff now. Dave said, you don't need to come in now. I'll bring your stuff to you later. But Liz started crying and she wouldn't leave.

13:11 Do you know where Liz lived in relation to Dave. I don't know exactly, but she was in Omaha also, so I think it was probably relatively close. So she may have been like parked and saw him enter with another woman. It's very possible. Yeah, So Dave explained the situation to Carrie, and he apologized profusely. Carrie seemed to be a good sport about it. She laughed it off. She said, in no worries, we've all been there. Just give me a call when you've got things straightened out. So Dave walked Carrie out, passed Liz, who was at the entrance of the apartment. Awkward. Yeah, the two women didn't say anything to each other. Liz came in to get her stuff, but she didn't want to leave. She wanted to argue, but Dave just wanted to get rid of her, which he finally did right away. After she left, he called Carrie, who was not quite home yet. She said, Hey, why don't you come over to my place? It was nine pm on a Monday night and a forty minute drive, but Dave did not hesitate. Carrie had a charming little two bedroom house built in eighteen seventy that had belonged to her grandparents. Maxwell her son was staying at Carrie's parents' house for the night, so she and Dave had the place to themselves. They had some coffee, and soon they started kissing. Before things went any further, Carrie told Dave that she wasn't looking for a commitment, that she just wanted something casual and to have some fun. Dave later said, I felt like I hit the jackpot. She was smart, fun, sexy, had her act kicked together, and she wanted the exact same thing out of a relationship that he did. He ended up staying the night and they saw each other regularly over

14:43 the next couple of weeks, in between work and kids. Between his chemistry with Carrie and Liz's behavior, Dave was pretty much done with Liz, and he told her that they should take a break, but Liz wasn't ready to let go. A few days after Dave his first date with Carrie, Liz send him a long, rambling email, I'm going to have you read just a small part of it if you don't mind, just so you can get an idea of Liz's mindset. I know you don't know what will happen down the road, and you really don't want to think about it. Are you asking for the long break so you can forget everything? I'm going to give it to you, so don't worry. I was just wondering. Sorry, I guess I need closure. Do I forget everything about us? I'm going to date others, but if no one catches my eye, do I get to hope time makes the heart grow fonder? Or do you want to go and never come back. I'm not saying we will ever get back together.

15:37 I'm just asking do I go and never look back? I guess I hope, even if you're dating others, that you look back and you'll smile when you think of me, that someday you'll let me back in, no matter what it be a friend or whatever. Good job. No man wants to receive this, By the way, No, no, I shouldn't say man, no one that you're dating, Like, if you break it off man or woman, like you don't want this, you wouldn't be like, oh yeah, let's give it another try. Yeap, No, that would solidify your Yeah, I definitely want to be done here for sure. So and I think the email went on a lot longer than that as well. It was just a portion of it. She ended the email by saying she would understand if he wanted to stop talking to her, But then she emailed again a few minutes later, saying that she hadn't hugged him the last time she'd seen him because it would have felt like a goodbye. Dave didn't reply to either email. It didn't seem like a response was warranted. But that was apparently not okay with Liz, because she emailed him again the next day, saying, well, thank you for no response to email. I get the answer, that's it. Later a few days after this, Liz called him saying she just remembered that she had left some pans at his place, so he offered to bring them to her. When he got there, she got very flirty and they ended up having sex. Oh good God, Dave.

16:56 I know Dave is Yeah, he's not the best at this whole thing. He and Carrie. Dave and Carrie had both agreed that they weren't exclusive, so he wasn't cheating on Carrie, and in his mind it was just one last fling with Liz. But of course she's an idiot, Yeah, she emailed him. Lizzy emailed him a few days later asking if he would be comfortable grabbing a drink or dinner with her sometime, just as friends, acting very casual about it. So Carrie back to her She had a big project going on at her work that was going to require her to work long hours for a week. Since Dave's apartment was so close to her work, he offered to have her stay for a few nights, and she took him up on it. This would save for almost two hours of commuting time each day.

17:45 Her son Maxwell had a great relationship with her mom and stepdad, so he was fine staying with them for a few days. On Tuesday, the thirteenth of November, Dave had to be at work by six point thirty in the morning. When he left it six twenty five, Carrie was in her pajamas, sitting on his couch with her laptop out and a bunch of works spread out around her on the couch. Dave gave her a kiss and said he would see her later In the evening. She seemed happy and content. He was looking forward to seeing her later when he got back. They had been seeing each other for two weeks and she seemed just about perfect to him. He had no way of knowing at that time how quickly and dramatically things would change. Oh, here's what we know about Carrie Farver's actions. On the morning of November thirteenth, at six fifteen am, she called into her work and she left a message with an update about the code that she was working on. At six twenty five, as I mentioned, Dave left for his job, leaving Carrie and her pajamas working on the couch. At six thirty nine am, Carrie logged into Facebook from her laptop. She had received a friend request from someone named Sam Carter, who claimed to be from her hometown of Macedonia. She didn't know him, which was strange because Macedonia's population was only around two hundred and forty people, plus he had spelled Macedonia wrong, but she messaged him that morning asking do I know you? And then she logged off of Facebook at six forty two am. At nine fifty four

19:15 am, Carrie's phone logged into Facebook and she unfriended Dave krupa h. Twenty minutes later, a text came from Carrie's phone to Dave asking if they should move in together. Dave thought that's weird because they had agreed to keep things casual. He was busy at work as well, and so he just texted back a one word response. No seconds later, a text came back from Carrie quote fine, fuck you. I'm seeing somebody else. Don't contact me again. I hate you, go away unquote oh boy. Dave was shocked, but he was also busy at work, and so he put it aside for the moment, and he didn't respond. By mid morning, Carrie's supervisor at work was surprised when she hadn't shown up yet. She had gotten Carrie's message that she had left at six fifteen am, so it was clear that Carrie was working on stuff that morning. Her supervisor called and left a message, and tried again a few times later in the day, but there was no response. When Dave finished work for the day and returned to his apartment, he wasn't sure what to expect. Would Carrie be there, would they fight? It was just so strange the message that she had sent him earlier, when things had been going so well between them. He went into his apartment and there was no trace of Carrie. She and all her stuff were gone, like she had never been there. He was baffled, but at the same time, he thought to himself, well, I guess I dodged a bullet. It's hard to know what a person is really like after just

20:48 a couple of weeks, and apparently he had completely misread Carrie as someone who was easy going, reasonable and drama free, and this just reaffirmed his commitment to not committing. He didn't need the drama in his life. Meanwhile, Carrie's mom, Nancy, started getting worried when she hadn't heard from Carrie. They normally talked or texted every day. Nancy tried calling Carrie several times to see when she was going to pick up Max, but she never got a response. When Carrie didn't show up for her half brother's wedding that weekend, Nancy became really concerned. She knew that Carrie wouldn't miss the wedding. Carrie's father, Nancy's ex husband, was dying of stomach cancer, and her half brother had pushed the wedding up so that he could be there. But when Carrie didn't show up to the rehearsal dinner or the wedding, Nancy reported her missing. How long had she been missing? So Tuesday was the day that she went missing, and then I think the rehearsal dinner was Friday, so it was a few days. Okay. The officer who took the missing person's report didn't seem too concerned. After all, Carrie was a grown woman.

21:56 She could do what she wanted. It wasn't long after Carrie's disappearance that the harassment started. Dave started receiving angry texts from Carrie's phone. Usually Liz was the target of the texts, referring to her as a quote fat, ugly, whore, and other nasty names. Liz also started getting texts and emails from Carrie, and even worse, her garage was broken into and someone painted the words whorror from Dave on her garage wall. Liz also discovered that a check book had been stolen, and she reported both the theft and the vandalism to the Omaha police. Dave hadn't really planned on seeing Liz again, but when she told him about the harassment and the vandalism. He felt bad, and he didn't blame her for being upset. He felt guilty, after all, he had brought this crazy carry woman into their lives. Shortly after the incident in Liz's garage, Nancy got a text from her daughter's phone with a picture of a check made out to Carrie and signed with the name Shanna Gallier, Liz It's legal name. The message from Carrie said that she had sold her bedroom set to Shanna and asked her mom to let Shanna into her house to pick it up. Nancy didn't believe that it was really Carrie, and so she replied saying I need to hear your voice so I know it's really you. The reply from Carrie's phone called Nancy a controlling, bad mother, and there was no call to confirm or to hear Carrie's voice. Nancy followed

23:29 up with the police after this exchange, more certain now that something had happened to Carrie or that someone had kidnapped her. The police again didn't seem too worried. They took a copy of the text and the photo of the check, and they added it to the file. While Nancy believed that Carrie hadn't chosen to disappear. There was some doubt in the back of her mind. Carrie had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder years earlier. Nancy had always doubted the diagnosis, believing that Carrie suffered more from general anxiety as opposed to the extreme mood swings that come with bipolar disorder. But maybe Carrie was having some type of manic episode. She had left her meds behind, after all. When Nancy mentioned this to the police, they seemed to take this as a confirmation that Carrie must have left on her own volition. I'm sorry, it seems like the police have missed a few steps here. It seems like it.

24:23 But you know, at the same time, the whole check incident is very strange. Yeah, it is a little strange. Although the police didn't seem super concerned, they actually did do some investigations. I'll talk about that now. On Monday the nineteenth, so six days after Carrie had vanished and three days after Nancy reported her missing, an officer interviewed Carrie's supervisor at West Corporation. She told the officer that Carrie hadn't shown up for work on Tuesday, and then later in the week she had gotten a text from Carrie saying that she was resigning and moving to Kansas to take a new job. The police also contacted contacted Verizon to get Carrie's phone records and her ping locations. The pings showed that her phone was still in Omaha. They drove around the area of the pings, which only provide a rough location, to see if they could spot her Ford Explorer, but they came up empty. They also had the photo of the check that Carrie's mom had shared. The checks were starter checks. There was no name or address on them, but they could read the signature clearly Shanna Gallier. They didn't know who this was, so keep in mind the detectives investigating Carrie as a missing person were on the Iowa side of the border, and the detectives who had taken Liz's report of vandalism and theft were from Nebraska. But they talked to Liz, who told them that she and Carrie had both dated this guy, Dave Krupa, and that Carrie had been harassing her and had stolen her check book. She also gave them Dave's contact info. They stopped in to see Dave at his work and he

25:53 confirmed that Both he and Liz were getting harassing texts and emails from this crazy Carrie Farver woman. He didn't know that she had been reported as missing, and he promised to let the police know if he saw her. Soon after the officer left Dave's place of work, he meaning the officer, got a text from Carrie himself. It said, quote, I don't care about this missing person report, but I would really appreciate it if you would leave Dave Krupa out of it. I will be leaving the state. My mother overreacted. I have been to my house a few times unquote. The officer responded, saying they needed to speak with her to verify that she was okay, otherwise she would remain a missing person in the database. The response from Carrie said, quote, Dave texted me and said you had the sheriff at his work. Please stop talking to people. I have nothing to say to anyone.

26:47 I want one person to go away for destroying everything for me. Apparently she met Liz. By the end of November, Dave was getting over sixty texts and emails a day from Carrie's phone. Boy. One night, he got a text saying, I see you in the chair with your feet propped up. You're wearing your blue T shirt. Both of those things were true, which freaked Dave out. He ran outside, but he didn't see Kerrie. He would try to block her number or her email, but she would just start texting from different numbers and different email addresses. He got a new phone number, but somehow she found out his new number, and the harassment continued. Let's take a quick break. I just had an incredible sense of deja vu, and I realized that I've heard this case before. You have, Okay, I wonder it's I think it's a fairly well known case.

27:45 So I must have watched a dateline on Okay, here's a dateline up. Oh yeah, Keith Morrison. It's a good talk about the texting in the blue shirt. I was like, oh wait a minute, I know this. Oh man, I thought I had a new one. Remember it. I don't remember it very well A little bit. Sorry, that's okay, all right, So the harassment is going on here. Amy, Dave's ex and the mother of his children, also started getting dozens of threatening messages a day from Carrie warning her to leave Dave alone. Dave started getting worried for his kid's safety and wouldn't let them out of his sight when they were together. On November twenty first, a post appeared on Carrie's Facebook page saying that she was moving to Kansas for a great job and that she would miss her family and friends. A few days later, another post appeared saying, Hey, got a great guy, David Krupa moving down to Kansas. Now.

28:37 If I can get my son to move with me, I'd be so happy. The weird thing was that her son Max, told his grandparents that his mom had actually talked about possibly moving to Kansas at some point. So even though Nancy believed that it wasn't her daughter making these posts, she still had like a sliver of doubt. By the end of November, though, Nancy and her husband Mark took action to become Max's legal guardian, knowing that it could be reversed if Carrie showed up and was in her right mind. They also reported Carrie's car, which was in their name, as being stolen, hoping that it would be another avenue to help hopefully locate Carrie. On December seventh, Carrie's dad, Dennis, the one who had been battling stomach cancer, passed away in hospice. Yeah, it's really sad because she wasn't there, and you know she would have been there for him. Soon after that, Nancy, who had remained good friends with Carrie's dad even after they divorced, had a vivid dream where Dennis told her not to worry that Carrie was with him. She woke up in tears, now believing that Carrie was probably dead, but it would take a long long time before she knew for sure whether that was the case. Even though Dave had pretty much dumped Liz before all this craziness started, the harassment that they were both experiencing actually brought them back to other. Woah, I know they had this kind of shared experience.

30:03 They could vent to each other about crazy Carrie as they started referring to her, and it almost seems like Liz got exactly what she wanted. At this point, you might be wanting to know more about Shanna aka Liz Gallier Shanna Kay, which was her name at birth, grew up in Kalamazoo, Michigan, in nineteen and no Kalamazoo, Yeah it's a great place. In nineteen seventy eight, when she was almost three years old, the state of Michigan removed Shanna and her little brother, fifteen month old George, from their home. This was because their dad, Al was a violent, abusive alcoholic who regularly beat up their mom d. After the kids were taken away, d kicked Al out of the house and the social workers approved having the children return back home. Before that happened, though, tragedy struck. D was walking home from the laundromat where she had been washing the linens in preparation for her children's return home. The laundromat was only four blocks away from home, but an eighteen year old driver had an epileptic seizure and veered off the road, striking and killing Dee, who was less than two weeks away from her twenty ninth birthday. After that, Shanna and George went into foster care, bouncing around to a few households before ending up adopted by Ronald and Teresa Gallier of Battle Creek. At that point, Shanna's name was changed from Shanna Kay to Shanna Elizabeth Gallier. In nineteen eighty one, when Shanna was five,

31:33 her foster grandmother was murdered at age forty six, shot and killed by her ex boyfriend In a Battle Creek bar. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah, so her childhood was certainly marred by trauma. Shanna got married at twenty then divorced at twenty two. She then started dating a guy named Raymond Niche, who she worked with at a plastics factory, and she found out she was pregnant in early nineteen ninety eight. Niche bought a trailer for the two of them to live in, but when she was eight months pregnant, Shanna moved in with another guy by the name of Glenn her She told Raymond that Glenn was just her roommate, but it soon became clear that there was more to their relationship. Cody Nathaniel Gallier was born in August of nineteen ninety eight.

32:19 He was a difficult, calicky baby who cried a lot. In January of nineteen ninety nine, when Cody was five months old, Shanna called Glenn at work, saying, I dropped the baby. You need to get home. By the time Glenn got home, Cody was sleeping and he seemed fine. But the next day, while Shanna was at work and Glenn and his mom were with the baby, Cody seemed unusually quiet and then Glenn's mother saw that the baby wasn't breathing. Oh no, Glenn called nine one one while his mother performed CPR, but sadly, baby Cody died. Oh my god. The cause of death was determined to be shaken baby syndrome. The police grilled Glen, who was a bit slow mentally, and he admitted that he had bounced Cody on his knee and liked to toss him in the air while they were playing, so maybe he was responsible for Cody's death. The doctor who examined Cody said that his death had been the result of at least twenty seconds of vigorous shaking, so it's unlikely that bouncing Cody on his knee or playfully tossing him up in the air would have actually caused his death. And Glenn either didn't mention Shanna's call the day before about dropping the baby or the police didn't care. They decided that they had their man. Glenn was arrested and charged with second degree murder. Glenn's mom ran into Shanna at Walmart a couple of days after Cody died. A couple had offered to buy Shanna a new wardrobe to take her mind off of losing her baby, and apparently it worked because Shanna seemed cheerful and happy, not like a grieving mother as you

33:52 might expect. Glenn's mom was shocked. At Glenn's trial, Shanna testified and ed to the jury several letters that she claimed he had sent her from jail. One of the letters asked Shanna to cover for him and say that she had dropped Cody. Glenn's mom was sure that Shanna had written the letters. Her son had a learning disability and they were much more articulate than he would have been. But nonetheless, Glenn was convicted and sentenced to eight and a half to twenty five years in prison. Oh my goodness. Soon after Glenn's conviction, Shanna left Michigan and she headed to Omaha. She actually had a felony warrant for her arrest in Michigan for stealing a car, and so she apparently decided it would be best if she skipped town. I don't have a lot of information about how Liz spent her first ten years in Omaha. I do know that soon after moving there, she got pregnant and she had a little girl. I don't know who the father is, but When her daughter was two years old, Liz met a different guy. She got pregnant again and gave birth to a boy. Liz and this guy split up, though, because he couldn't take Liz's constant jealousy. Soon after they split, he started dating another woman. In what was maybe a preview of things to come, Liz started harassing her ex and his new girlfriend, banging on their apartment door late at night, calling the guy when the couple was together, keeing the girlfriend's car, causing thirty seven hundred dollars worth of damage. No one had seen Liz do it, though, and so she wasn't charged. Soon

35:24 after that incident, Liz left a tearful voicemail for her ex boyfriend apologizing, and she followed up by sending six cookies. The funny thing is, though, that the cookies arrived in two separate packages, one containing four cookies labeled with the guy's name and their son's name, and the other package containing two cookies labeled with the girlfriend's name. The girlfriend was like, no thanks, and she threw hers in the garbage, which I think was probably a smart move. Liz then enrolled in pharmacy school. Coincidentally, her ex's new girlfriend was a pharmacist. Liz got hair extensions. Coincidentally, they made her hair look like the ex's new girlfriend. Liz bought a black Mitsubishi. Coincidentally, her ex's new girlfriend also drove a black Mitsubishi. Eventually, though, Liz lost interest and she moved on to ruin other people's lives. In September of twenty ten, almost two years before she met Dave Krupa, Liz met a guy named Todd Butterbaugh through an online dating site. Todd seems like a really nice guy. He had just lost fifty pounds before meeting Liz, but he still weighed about two point fifty and he was self conscious about his weight.

36:36 He was thirty seven when they met, and he hadn't dated a lot before he met Liz. Liz told Todd that the men in her past relationships had not treated her well, and so Todd vowed to not be like those other guys. But it turned out that Liz really treated Todd like crap. After a few months of dating, she dumped him for another guy, but when that didn't work out, she came back to Todd. One time, Todd was out near his apartment complex pool and he was surprised to see Liz's sister, Marcy there. So this is Liz's sister from the foster family that ended up adopting her. Apparently she must have lived in the Omaha area as well. Marcy said, Oh, Liz just went out to pick up some food. When Liz showed up, she had a guy with her and she completely ignored Todd. Todd was like, wait a minute, you brought your sister and some other guy to my apartment complex to use the pool without even telling me. Whenever Todd would get upset at situations like this, Liz would turn things around on him and be like, well, why are you getting so jealous. The guy's just a friend. Don't you trust me? And Todd would always end up backing down and wondering whether maybe he overreacted. She would never show him any affection in public, but he figured that was just who she was. He would help pay her bills, and often he would watch her kids when she said she had to work. She told Todd that she had her own cleaning business and sometimes she had to work all night. She lived in government subsidized housing as a single mom, and she never seemed to have any money. In June of twenty twelve, Todd bought his grandmother's house,

38:06 who had moved into a nursing home. This was about the time that Liz met Dave Croupa. Todd got suspicious when he saw that Liz was spending hours texting with some guy, but she convinced him it was just her mechanic and it was completely innocent, which makes sense. I mean, who among us does not text their mechanic for hours at a time in the evening right. Todd continued seeing Liz, believing that they were in an exclusive relationship while she was also dating Dave Krupa. She didn't tell Dave about Todd either, even though he would have been happy to know that she was dating someone else. She didn't tell Todd about any of the craziness going on in November or December of twenty twelve, with her garage getting vandalized and the harassing texts and emails from this crazy carry woman. In January of twenty thirteen, Todd got a text from an unfamiliar number. The texter said her name was Carrie and that she was a friend of Liz's. He mentioned this to Liz, who didn't say anything about Carrie being this crazy stalker or anything. In fact, she confirmed that Carrie was a friend of hers. Carrie started texting Todd regularly, usually small talk, but occasionally she would say things to provoke a reaction, like Liz barely mentions you. I didn't even know you two were still dating. Another is I know I'm supposed to not think that this Carrie, but obviously Carrie, Liz is Carrie. You are onto something there. Another time he is a piece of work, she is yep. Another time she texted, I wish I could meet a guy like you. Sweet, handsome,

39:37 smart, and we have a lot in common. Not trying to hit on you. She said that Liz had shown her a picture of Todd, and she said, you are very handsome. I would like your arms around me, just saying I would be proud to have you as a guy I could show. Todd didn't know what to make of all this, and he was very careful to try to steer the conversation away from anything too flirty or personal. At one point, Todd noticed that Carrie happened to phrase something the way that Liz often did. He messaged her, lol, sounds like Liz, she always says that little did he know how spot on he actually was, so he wasn't suspicious. I think, no, no, he wasn't. I know, like in this story, it seems like like if you're Dave or if you're Todd, like you should have been able to figure this out. But you know, I just I just don't think they it didn't occur to him, you know. I think they just assumed that it was this create, this carry person, so they didn't have their own true crime podcast or not suspicious of everyone and everything in their life. Apparently not.

40:42 But it does seem like like just given the way that Liz was, like, Dave knew that she would send him these long emails and she was very clingy and very possessive and stuff like, it does seem like, yeah, Dave, maybe you should have at least had the question in her mind that maybe Liz is behind all this. Yeah, well, and she's chasing after Dave. But it sounds like Todd's like a good guy. Yeah, yeah, poor Carry? Where's poor Carry? Yeah? Late later in January, Todd's house was burglarized, although there was no sign of forced entry, his TV, his PlayStation, his laptop, computer, monitor, and some clothing were all missing. He reported it to the police, including the serial numbers of all the electronics that were stolen, so that they could circulate them to pawn shops in case anything showed up. Are we supposed to know? I was impressed that Todd he had maintained a very meticulous list of all his BALI that spreadsheets, I absolutely do not wow. In January of twenty thirteen, Nancy got a message supposedly from Carrie that said, Mom, why are you not talking anymore? It came from a new Facebook account that had been created with Carrie's name. Nancy replied, is this really you? The reply came, yes, Mom, the other account was hacked. I'm sorry I missed the funeral. Nancy replied. The only way I'll know it's you is if you call me and I hear your voice. The response came, everything is

42:15 about phone calls. I was just heading to bed. Who else would know about dad? Fine, I will call you sometime. Who else would know I have a dad? I know. I just wanted you to know I'm okay, I am happy. I may not be the greatest person in the world right now, but I am talking. Fine, I will call you but I'm done after that. You have Max, and I am grateful, but after the cop stuff from before, I am done. I am not ten years old. Mom. I can leave him and move on with someone new. End quote Nancy, I forgot that Max has been with missus Farvard. Yeah for six weeks. Yeah, that's horrible. Poor Max, I know. And you know poor missus Carrey's mom. Yeah, and mud be so worried. And her husband just died. Yeah, no, her ex husband, but yes, agreed. Yeah, and Carrie, you know, she Max was the most important thing in the world to her, and so for her to like just abandon her son like that, it's just what happened.

43:12 Crazy. Nancy still felt sure that it wasn't really Carrie, but she was holding on to whatever hope she could, as you can imagine, like as a parent, you know, even if you believe that this person you're talking to is not really your daughter, you want to believe it so bad, oh for sure. Soon after that, a photo of a hand with a sparkling engagement ring was posted on Carrie's new Facebook profile with the caption Dave and I got engaged. Nancy knew that the hand did not belong to her daughter, Carrie had long and slender fingers, while the fingers shown in the photo were short and stubby. On January sixth, Dave got an email from Carrie's account that had a photo attached. The photo was dark and hard to see, but it showed a woman in the trunk of a car, hands behind her back and duct tape over her mouth. It was impossible to tell who the woman was in the photo because it was very dark. It could be Liz, but it might not be her. The email said, you will do exactly as I say, and then I will let her go.

44:13 You will dump Liz and you will start seeing me again. Dave was instructed to call Liz's phone and leave a voicemail breaking up with her, and then Carrie would set her free. If he didn't do it, Carrie said that she would leave Liz in the trunk in a remote location where she would die. This was a Facebook message, No, this was an email with a photo attached. Time, I'm sorry, Okay. Did he contact the police right away? He actually didn't, so he wasn't buying it. I think by this time he was like, you know, he had been getting so many emails and texts every day that he was just like, this is not a real thing. He texted Liz to check in on her. It was late in the evening. Liz didn't respond, but she messaged him the next morning, asking why he had been trying to reach her so late. Dave replied, quote Psycho was playing games. Was just checking on you. Unquote.

45:05 Liz replied, so sweet. What's up today, handsome? So I was a little surprised he didn't call the police, because if it had been real, he probably shouldn't have waited till the next morning before actually doing anything. Yeah, if you look at a picture of me and a trunk, please call the police. Yes, I went away. On January eighth, Dave noticed a car in his apartment parking lot that was covered in snow and obviously hadn't been driven in days. He scraped some of the snow off and realized that it was Carrie's Ford Explorer. I was going to ask about her car. Well now you know, he was sure that it hadn't been there the whole time. It made him wonder had carried moved into his apartment complex.

45:46 He called the police, who came and impounded the car. A crime scene technician processed the vehicle and found it to be extremely clean. The seats had been recently vacuumed, and there was really nothing of note in the car. There were no fingerprints except for a single print on a mint container in the center console, which was scanned and searched in the database, but there was no match. The car was then returned to Carrie's mom. She was surprised how clean it was because Carrie typically left her car kind of messy, but she assumed that the crime scene technicians must have cleaned it before returning it to her. Nancy also applied for and was granted conservatorship over Carrie's bank accounts.

46:29 She found that there had been no withdrawals from her accounts. Her debit card had been used twice in mid November at stores in Omaha. Her bank flagged them as suspicious transactions, and they froze Carrie's account when she didn't respond to their call. The relentless emails and texts showed no signs of abating. In twenty thirteen, there were thousands of messages from over thirty different email addresses and thirty different phone numbers, and a dozen or more Facebook accounts. Mostly they were coming in to Dave and Liz. Dave alone was receiving an average of fifty to sixty messages a day, but they were also coming to Amy and Nancy. Dave and Liz both allowed the police to download the contents of their cell phones so that they had all the evidence. Dave was still very much avoiding any type of serious relationship with Liz, and he was still meeting other women online. However, when he would meet someone, the woman would usually start getting threatening messages from Carrie. One message said, quote, so you must be Dave's new horror. He has herpes and the whore he was dating from the hohore he was dating, I would watch out for him unquote.

47:38 Another message said I will come kill you and your fucking kids. I have killed a dog owned by Dave's last horror he tried to be with, Oh my goodness, and another I know where you live. I will be coming for you and your son. I will kill your whole family. Some of the women were like, yeah, you seem like a nice guy, Dave, but I don't really need this. At the same time, Liz was putting pressure on Dave for more of a committed relationship, even though she was still seeing Todd as well without him knowing he and Liz they still got along well enough, but he didn't like her constant jealousy and the pressure. She finally got him to commit to giving her one day a week Wednesday evenings would belong to Liz in February, I mean, Liz, come on one day a week. Yeah, want more for yourself. In February, Liz reported two incidents of her car being vandalized, and in April someone scratched the words whor stop seeing Dave into the side of her car. Also in April, Nancy got a call from an unknown number. It was a man's voice.

48:44 He said it was Dave Krupa and he was calling to let her know that Carrie was staying at a homeless shelter in Omaha and wanted Nancy to pick her up. What hope once again ignited inside of Nancy, She called the police to let them know, and they met her at the homeless shelter. The officer asked Nancy to wait in the parking lot while he went in and checked to see if Carrie was there, bringing a photo with him. Nancy's hopes were once again dashed a few minutes later when he came back shaking his head. That's so cruel. I know it is, isn't it. It's just horrible. That's one of the most horrible things about this case. Like you have your daughter is missing, and yet this person keeps trying to give her some glimmer of hope. Yeah, and then just dashes those hopes over and over again. In May of twenty thirteen, now fifteen year old Maxwell decided to try and make contact with his mom or the person posing as his mom. He messaged Carrie on Facebook, just saying hi. The response came quickly, Hey, little man, how are you? His mom had never referred to him as little man, but he replied asking Carrie to answer three questions. Oh smart Max, what is my middle name? What was the name of our first boxer? And who was my best friend when I was growing up? Yeah? These were questions, at least the last two that only his mom would probably know the answers to there was no response. One email sent in May had a picture of Liz's kids. It looked like it had been taken from outside her house looking in through a window. The message

50:15 said, quote, these are the ugliest kids, just like their horror mom. They should die with their horror mom so I don't have to see their ugliness anymore. No one wants her and her Brady kids around. Unquote on May eleventh, Carrie, and I use Carrie in quotes from here on out, because you know it's not really Carrie. But she sent Dave a link to a page on remembered dot com, which is a site where people post obituaries and memorials to loved ones. The link was to a page created as a memorial to Liz with the dates June twenty eighth, nineteen seventy five to May eleventh, twenty thirteen. The obituary said, I didn't know her very well, except that she was a whore and a man stealer. She kept stealing my mind. Man. She is unable to get her own man, so that she has to keep taking everyone else's men. Thank god she has gone. Good riddance to you. The next day, Dave got an email that said, quote, I am trying to hire someone to get rid of that horror Liz for us. You told me before you wanted her gone.

51:15 I can't do it myself because the cops will figure it out. The email continued asking if she should also have Liz's kids killed. It closed with I love you, Dave, and I'm glad you're in this with me. I hope to see you soon, your beautiful Carrie. Liz claimed to be terrified, but Dave did his best to reassure her that Carrie was just trying to scare her. In June, Dave was at Amy's house seeing his kids, and when he got back to his apartment, he found that someone had thrown a brick through the bedroom window of his apartment. Carrie sent him an email taking responsibility. Also in June, Dave found his car scratched with the message quote Dave Love's fat horrors unquote. Oh while it may seem obvious now that it wasn't really Carrie behind all the harassment and vandalism, and we talked about this a little bit, but Dave never suspected that it wasn't her. Although Liz had certainly shown a history of being possessive and jealous, he never suspected her because she was also being targeted, and several times they would both get messages from Carrie while they were together and Liz's phone might be sitting on the other side of the room. There was another thing that happened in twenty thirteen that should have tipped Dave off. He was walking home from the bar one night. He didn't used to be to be much of a drinker, but the constant stress and the relentless onslaught of messages was getting to him, and he started making a habit of hanging out at his local watering hole after work.

52:45 It was around eleven or twelve at night, and he was in the parking lot of his apartment complex walking home when he heard a noise. He looked over and he saw Liz crawling on the ground. She crept behind a car like she was hiding from him. Dave called her name a couple of times, but there was no answer. He was cold, and he was annoyed and a little bit drunk, and so he just went inside. He then got a text from her saying, quote, I'm sorry, I'm drunk. I was over across the street at the bar with my friends. I don't know what I'm doing unquote. But this wasn't enough for Dave to suspect that Liz might be behind all the harassment. In the summer of twenty thirteen, Liz told Todd that she could no longer pay her bills and she was going to become homeless. Todd had already helped her a lot, but he felt bad not only for her, but for her kids, and so he offered to let them stay at his house. His roommate had recently moved out, so he had the space. She moved in, and Todd, thinking that Liz was his girlfriend, expected that she would stay in his room, but she immediately claimed the basement as her own. You might not be surprised to hear that Liz was a horrible roommate. She never offered to chip in for utilities or anything. She was a slob. She never cleaned up after herself. The basement quickly became a disaster area, with dirty clothes, trash, fast food, packaging, and more covering the floor. She never washed the dishes. She rarely made dinner. When she did make dinner, it was just for her and her kids. She never offered anything to Todd.

54:15 She loved fast food, and she would often text Todd from the basement begging him to drive to McDonald's. Todd was a pushover, so he would go and buy dinner for her and the kids, and of course, she never offered to pay him back. Liz spent most of her time when she was there hold up in the basement, communicating with Todd via text. The two did occasionally have sex, but it was rare. Todd quickly regretted inviting her to move in and thought that maybe if he paid for everything, she could save her money and move out sooner. By late summer of twenty thirteen, Dave was again getting fed up with Liz's jealousy and her nagging, and he dumped her once again. Soon after that, the Omaha Fire Department was called out to Liz's house. She still hadn't completely moved out of her government subsidized house, although most of her stuff was now at Todd's. When the fire department arrived at Liz's house, the fire had already burned itself out. It hadn't burned the whole house down, but it did a lot of damage.

55:14 There hadn't been any people inside the house, but Liz and her kid's four pets, two dogs, a cat, and a snake all died from smoke inhalation. It didn't take long to figure out that the fire was a result of arson. There was a gas can on the floor of the living room, a lighter fluid container in the kitchen, and the fire had originated in multiple places, which is always suspicious. Liz told investigators that it was carried. She showed them an email that she had received early that morning that said, hope you and your kids burned to death. Of course, Liz immediately called Dave, freaking out and begging him to come see her. He had dumped her, but now, of course he felt bad because this was all his fault for letting carry into their lives, so once again he went and tried to comfort her. She told him she had lost everything, even though she had really moved almost all of her stuff to Todd's house already. Once again, Carrie had somehow brought Dave and Liz back together again. The rest of twenty thirteen was more of the same. In August, Carrie texted Nancy, I'm in Omaha. I'm not hurt Mom. I miss everyone too.

56:22 I just had a breakdown and I think I'm getting over it. I should have come to my senses sooner and realized the guy wasn't worth it. Again, Nancy said, I need to hear your voice to know it's really you this time. The reply came, Okay, let me pull over once again. Nancy's hopes started to rise, but the call never came. Months ago, Carrie was supposed to call her when she was like, this is this is the last time, and so she never Obviously she never called her. Then yeah, mom, just let it go. Yeah, yep. In October, Dave showed up at work one day to find a message spray painted in orange on the front window of his shop, Dave Beats Women. In December, someone broke into Dave's apartment. There was writing on the wall in red crayon that said go away, whore, and some of Liz's clothing that was there had been slashed with a knife. As the one year anniversary of Carrie's disappearance passed, Dave was drinking regularly to deal with the stress. He gained forty pounds during the year, and he constantly had dark circles under his eyes. And with that, I think it's a good point to break and end Part one. Holy moly, I'm like a bobblehead over here shaking my head at all this crazy story. I know, it's just it. It is insane, and how long it went on we're not even insane. Liz is insane, I mean, yes, yeah, crazy crazy. So the police, so Carrie has been missing for how long? Now? A year?

57:54 A year? Yeah, and is anyone investigating her disappearance? I don't think they were actively doing a whole lot. I think they thought it was a missing person. They kind of believed that, oh, this person's harassing, so they were investigating, like the harassment. I mean, come on, yeah, I know it's hindsight is twenty twenty, but yeah, there should have been. Poor Carrie's mom must have just been beside herself. Yeah, oh, I'm sure she was. Yeah, and I think she was trying to get the investigation. Yeah. She kept trying to convince the police that her daughter was probably not alive anymore and they needed to investigate, you know, from that perspective, and they just weren't having it. Well, I hope you're gonna tell us how max Is and Nancy. I will Carrie's mom, yes, because I am worried about them right now. And Liz has two kids. How old are her kids? I think they were somewhere around like maybe nine and eleven years old at this point, So those poor kids have had a very tumultuous upbringing. And I hope they're okay too.

58:57 I hope so too. I don't really have any update on them, but I will. Yeah, I will talk about the other folks that you mentioned at the end of part two, all right, and you sent me some pictures, which of course we'll post. Is always on social media, but yeah, Liz is I'm not going to make fun of anyone's appearance. But she looks she looks a little crazy. Yeah, Carrie looks like a nice lady. Oh well that was that was quind of ride. Can I unbuckle yet? Well you can unbuckle for a little bit, but part two it is not going to be any less crazy. So uh, Like I said, I did hear the story before, but I don't really remember other than Liz was pretending to be Carrie. So we mentioned twin Flames earlier. Do you want to tell people about that for a minute before we wrap up today?

59:49 Sure, just I don't really want to say too much about it other than twin Flames is like soulmate to the Alder soul eight. Yeah, it's like you're spiritual, like from God telling you this is your your soulmate or your twin Flame yea, and it it started as a podcast, and I did listen to the podcast part of it, and I think I forgot to finish it. But then I was clicking around Amazon Prime, which we don't really watch much on there, but yeah, for some reason, I watched one episode and then I was like, well, I need I need I mean, this is right up our alley. Yeah, yeah, I need you to watch it with me. So it's on Amazon and it's called Desperately Seeking Soulmate Escaping Twin Flames Universe, and we're not going to see anything else other than interesting documentary. I watched two of the three parts, and I'm very anxious to see the third part because I really don't know how what's gonna end up happening. I know, just I always just seem to know just a little bit about everything, but yeah I did know a little bit.

1:00:52 So yeah, check that out if you are looking for something good to watch. Yeah, it was gonna say if you're looking for your twin flame, but you know, who knows if that is real or not. I have one more thing for you, and I'm I just got this breaking news. While we're sitting here recording you don't know this yet. Your live reaction might be interesting. Okay, I'm just going to read this to you. Jim Harbaugh of Michigan was suspended from sign sideline coaching for the regular season amid sign stealing allegations. Wow he suspended for three games? Oh yeah, I guess I was going to say that the rest of Yeah, there's only three market three pretty important games too. How are you? I need time. I need a little time to process this. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Huge gainst Penn State. Holy crap, I don't know how many people. Probably no one who's listening other than me, you care. But Michigan is undefeated, They've have a they've had a beautiful season.

1:01:52 They've been ranked up near the top the whole. So this is a huge blow. I mean, shame on them if they were actually stealing signs. I mean, that can't make you proud as a Michigan No, for sure, as not what a Michigan man does. Well apparently some tips. Wow, Well thanks for sharing that. Really without being able to process that. As always, I gotta go. You want a tissue? Yeah, I'm leaving. We have another podcast. Always record here yeah, thank you everyone for listening. Hope you stay tuned and come back for part two. Please rate, review, subscribe, and like and consider supporting us on Patreon, Patreon dot com, slash love Mary Kill, where you can get early access to episodes, AD free episodes, and when we do a two parter like this, you can get both episodes at the same time. We appreciate you so much your kind words, messages, reviews. They keep us going and we really do appreciate you. And I feel we talk about this a lot. We don't real talk about it on the podcast. I feel like an impostor impostor syndrome is real. We started this, you know, as you know, over a year ago and we still can't believe that people are listening. So we just want you to know that we truly do appreciate it.

1:03:15 We always will. And oh, I have to give a shout out to a random person in Australia too. By the way, So my boss who lives in Australia in Melbourne, your boss and friend and friend. He messaged me a few days ago and he said, I'm out to lunch in Melbourne and I was talking about your podcast, which is pretty nice of him to talk about our podcast, and he said the waitress said, I listened to it and I love it. I was like, you are joking. I thought he was making that up. He said, no, swear swear to God, I'm not joking. So maybe the waitress was just shout out to that anonymous waitress in Melbourne, if you're listening, thank you, And it just blowl me away to the amount of people that we have that listen to us. Yeah, domestic or domestically and around the world, yes, thank you. So until next time, don't kill her husband. Don't kill your wife. M