Cari Farver, Liz Golyar, and Dave Kroupa - Part 1

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Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
some days you'll feel like killing your husband,

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and some days you'll feel like killing
your wife. Welcome to love,

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Mary Kill Hi, Tina, Hey
Rich, How are you? I'm great?

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How are you? I'm great?
Also, it's good we're on the

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same page. I'm very excited to
hear the story that you have to tell

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me today. I know you've been
working really hard. I am excited to

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tell you because it's just a crazy
story. But before we get to that,

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I am also excited for another reason. You know why I do because

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we have merch and we've been pretty
to do it for a long time.

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But we're just releasing just a few
pieces. We went with a local printer

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because I really wanted to be able
to see and feel the fabrics and just

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we have a couple of sweatshirts and
a couple of T shirts. We have

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like a unisex which our vendor really
did not want to do the ladies cut,

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but I was like, oh,
I think we should do a ladies

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cut, which is, you know, a smaller fit, and he just

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was very cautious and said, well, make sure you tell everyone to order

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at least one size up for the
ladies fit, if not two sizes up

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if you want it to be a
little looser. Yeah. And you can

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find the link to order this on
our show notes or on our Instagram media.

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Yeah, so it's exciting. I
mean, who wouldn't want a love

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Mary Kill sweatshirt for Christmas? I
know I would be happy to get one,

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So yeah. I sometimes I think
I forget that people leave their houses

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because I'm home so much and I'm
always wearing a sweatshirt and sweatpants or joggers

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or whatever. So yeah, you
might not want to wear it out of

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the house, but if you do, that'd be great. But they're nice

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quality, That's what I wanted to
say. They're really nice quality. I

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think you'll be really happy if you
order, so check that out. The

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store is open for a limited time. It closes on November twenty first at

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twelve am, so Tuesday night,
the twenty first is your last chance to

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order. We will not be able
to extend it to get the shirts printed

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in time for Christmas or just December. Cool, and you have one other

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thing that we're working on. Also, I also had some stickers printed and

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assuming that they turn out okay.
If so the first hundred people that message

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me and send me your address,
I will be happy to mail you a

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sticker, assuming that they turn out
okay. But they're vinyl stickers and you

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can put them on a lot of
things. You can put them on your

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car, my laptop, you could
put it on your water bottle, whatever.

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And we are working on coffee mugs
because a lot of people have asked

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for those, but dang it,
coffee mugs are a lot more complicated than

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are complicated because our shirt guy doesn't
doesn't make coffee mugs. He was like,

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no, you know, which just
baffles me. But I'm like okay,

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So anyway, we're working on that, but you have to order like

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quite a few, and I don't
want to order seventy two coffee mugs because

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I don't know if they're going to
turn out. So it's we're working at

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it, Yes we are. Okay, Sorry that was way too much business.

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Yeah, well let's move on to
a snack. So we have a

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special snack today. We mentioned it
last week, but our listener, Kelly

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from New Mexico, very kindly sent
us some Kelly, we're just idiots.

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Oh, they sat in our PO
box for two months because we didn't check

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our pof We thought that our PO
our post office would notify us if there

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was something there, and they never
did. They didn't. You would think

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that the small town we live in
that they would not be too busy and

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they'd be really excited to notify people. But no, yeah, it turns

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out they don't do it. But
anyway, we're going to try these anyway.

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And these are they're called Bisco cheetos, which is apparently a Southwestern holiday

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tradition cookie of New Mexico. It
is the official state cookie of New Mexico,

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and Kelly says that these cookies are
a holiday staple in the Southwest.

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So we're going to try them out
quick. Thank you so much, Kelly.

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So sorry that we are idiots and
didn't check our PO box. If

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anyone else wants to send us a
snack, don't feel obligated. But our

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PO box is PO box one one
one Dexter, Michigan for eight one three

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zero. That's correct. Yeah,
yeah cool. Let's take quick break and

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we'll be right back. What did
you think of the Bisco cheeto. I

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thought it was delicious. It was
really good too, and you think that

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maybe it'd be a little stale,
but they, Kelly, they were.

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They were really good. They're really
good. I was afraid I wouldn't really

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like them because the brochure it says
they have a they're flavored with anise seed,

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which I hate liquor, which is
very picky about spices. But it's

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very uh some control that flavor.
Yeah, but the texture is really delightful,

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very good. Tasted like a like
a spicy short bread. Yeah.

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Yeah, well I guess it was. I tasted cinnamon mostly, yep.

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Yeah, thank you so much,
Kelly, Yeah, thank you. So

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I did a little bit research that
I wanted to share because I was interested

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the fact that it said this was
New Mexico's state cookie. Love Mary kill.

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We're always going to give you a
little more information than you want.

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You probably want exactly. So I
was curious, though, how many other

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states have a state cookie? How
many do you think? Well, I

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would hope every state has a state
cookie. Only three, Only three states

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have an official state cookie. So
New Mexico was the first with the Bisco

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cheeto that became their official state cookie. In nineteen eighty nine, Massachusetts made

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the chocolate chip cookie their official state
cookie. Oh, I know, they

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took the chocolate chip cookie. I
mean everyone else is probably like mea up

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bunkle, I know. And then
just recently, in June of twenty twenty

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three, Alabama's governor signed a bill
making the Yellowhammer their official state cookie.

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You never heard of it? Well, they are giant, slightly soft oatmeal

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cookies sandwiching a peanut buttery cream filling. Sounds all right, good? Yeah,

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And I did check on Michigan,
and there was a bill introduced in

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Michigan in nineteen ninety four to name
the Michigan Treasure Cookie as the official state

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cookie, which I had never heard
of. You recently, Yeah, I

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sent you the recipe a couple of
days ago, but I had never heard

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of it. Yeah, it's essentially
like a chocolate chip cookie with cherries in

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it. But the bill never passed
together. Well, I am going to

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get Rechen Whitmer on the phone,
and I follow her on Instagram, so

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and yeah, we're going to work
on that. We will, Okay,

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So today's case. I kind of
alluded to it earlier, but this is

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probably the most insane story that I've
researched so far. I've all the podcasts

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I listened to about this. Everyone
started with this story is the craziest story,

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and I was like, yeah,
whatever, it's a crazy story,

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right. It's a story of jealousy, obsession, and cruelty that went on

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way too long before some tenacious investigators
finally uncovered the truth. It actually reminds

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me a little bit of the movie
Fatal Attraction, but it's crazier than that.

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And it is kind of a long
story. It's going to be two

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parter, and it's going to be
a wild ride. So yes, buckle

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up. Our story begins in the
summer of twenty twelve. Thirty four year

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old Dave Krupa had recently ended a
long term relationship, like thirteen or fourteen

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years long, with a woman named
Amy Flora, who was the mother of

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his two children. Dave was a
good guy, but not someone who wanted

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to be tied down. While Amy
wanted to get married, Dave was never

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on board with the idea, and
eventually the couple decided to call it quits.

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Dave moved out of their house in
Council Bluffs, Iowa, to a

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sparsely furnished bachelor pad apartment about twenty
minutes away across the Missouri River in Omaha,

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Nebraska, which was near where he
worked managing an auto repair shop.

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They agreed to work together for the
sake of the kids, though, who

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were eleven and nine at this time, Dave and Amy maintained a friendly relationship

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and Dave saw the kids regularly.
After Dave moved into his new apartment,

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he decided it was time to get
out there and start dating again. Even

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though he hadn't been married, he
had been as good as married for the

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last dozen or so years, so
getting back into the dating world was a

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little bit scary. He quickly found
that things had changed since he was last

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on the market, because there was
a whole new world of dating apps out

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there where one could meet and date
as many women as he wanted. This

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suited Dave because while he wanted to
have fun and socialize, he absolutely did

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not want commitment. He was independent
and determined to stay that way. He

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made it clear on his dating profile
that he was looking for something casual,

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and he was up front with that
requirement whenever he met anyone in person.

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The first woman that Dave met online
was Shanna Gallier, better known as Liz.

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She was about his age, had
two kids around the same age as

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his, and they seemed to hit
her off. They saw each other four

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or five times in the summer of
twenty twelve before Dave finally worked up the

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new to kiss her. She asked
what had taken him so long, and

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he replied, because I don't know
what the fuck I'm doing. Their relationship

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became intimate and they seemed to have
chemistry together. Dave and Liz had fun

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and the sex was good, but
he made it clear to her that he

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was going to see other women,
and he encouraged her to see other guys.

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She said that just wasn't her style. Dave said, fine, but

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don't expect me to change. Despite
Dave setting clear boundaries up front, Liz

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could be very clingy and she was
always pushing him for more of a commitment.

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She got jealous of amy when Dave
would go over to her house to

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spend time with his kids. Liz
would sometimes show up at Dave's apartment without

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warning, and she would send him
long emails about their relationship and looking for

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him to make a commitment. Oh
boy, she would ask to just make

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a one month commitment. Dave would
say no, or at times he would

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half heartedly agree to some type of
short term exclusivity just to kind of move

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on from the discus. He cared
about Liz and he didn't want to hurt

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her, so he kept the relationship
going, but he kept her at arm's

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length while she kept pushing for more. Did Liz think that Dave was her

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twin flame? I don't know.
We should talk about twin Flames sometime.

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We're watching to show on Amazon called
It's not called twin Flames. It's based

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on the podcast twin Flames. We
can talk about that at the end.

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Yeah, it's pretty crazy story.
Actually, So Dave casually dated some other

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women that he met online, but
in the fall of twenty twelve, he

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met Carrie Farvar in a more traditional
way. She came into his shop to

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have some repair work done on her
Ford Explorer. He was instantly attracted to

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her, and he sensed that she
was attracted to him as well. He

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wanted to ask her out right there, but he thought, well, what

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if I've misread the situation. I
could get into a lot of trouble at

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work if I asked her out and
she's not interested, so he kept it

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professional and she left the shop,
but he didn't stop thinking about her,

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and low and hold. Two weeks
later, whose profile does he come across?

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And his dating app Carrie Farver's.
He sent her a message saying,

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Hey, I know you. She
responded, and a little while later she

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stopped back in his shop to chat
and they exchanged phone numbers. It turned

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out Dave hadn't misread the signals he
was getting from Carrie. In fact,

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after she left the shop the first
time, she actually created an account on

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the plenty of Fish dating site,
hoping that Dave was on the site and

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that they would connect. Dave and
Carrie's first date was on a Monday evening,

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October twenty ninth of twenty twelve.
They met at Applebee's in the mall

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and they hit it off right away. Dave could see that Carrie was smart,

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funny, and easygoing. She was
a software developer for a company called

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West Corporation, which happened to be
located walking distance from Dave's apartment. Carrie

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lived about thirty miles east of Omaha
in the small town of Macedonia, Iowa,

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where she had grown up. She
was thirty seven, twice married and

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twice divorced, and she had full
custody of her fourteen year old son Maxwell.

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Her mom, Nancy and her stepdad
Mark also lived in Macedonia, and

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they helped Carrie by having Maxwell stay
with them whenever she needed. While they

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were at Applebee's on their first date, Dave's phone started blowing up with texts

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and calls. He saw that it
was Liz, and he did his best

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to ignore it so as not to
be rude to carry. But after about

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twenty texts and calls within a ten
minute period, he thought that something might

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be seriously wrong, so he excused
himself and he called Liz back. She

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said that she had less some things
at his apartment and she really needed them

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back. He told her that he
was on a date and that he was

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sure it could wait. He hung
up and went back to Carrie. They

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finished eating, hung out a bit
longer, and then Dave asked Carrie if

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she wanted to come back to his
place, and she agreed. Once they

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got back to Dave's apartment, his
phone started blowing up again, and soon

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after that apartment intercom buzzer went off. It was Liz saying I need my

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stuff now. Dave said, you
don't need to come in now. I'll

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bring your stuff to you later.
But Liz started crying and she wouldn't leave.

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Do you know where Liz lived in
relation to Dave. I don't know

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exactly, but she was in Omaha
also, so I think it was probably

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relatively close. So she may have
been like parked and saw him enter with

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another woman. It's very possible.
Yeah, So Dave explained the situation to

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Carrie, and he apologized profusely.
Carrie seemed to be a good sport about

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it. She laughed it off.
She said, in no worries, we've

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all been there. Just give me
a call when you've got things straightened out.

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So Dave walked Carrie out, passed
Liz, who was at the entrance

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of the apartment. Awkward. Yeah, the two women didn't say anything to

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each other. Liz came in to
get her stuff, but she didn't want

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to leave. She wanted to argue, but Dave just wanted to get rid

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of her, which he finally did
right away. After she left, he

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called Carrie, who was not quite
home yet. She said, Hey,

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why don't you come over to my
place? It was nine pm on a

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00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.720
Monday night and a forty minute drive, but Dave did not hesitate. Carrie

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00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.799
had a charming little two bedroom house
built in eighteen seventy that had belonged to

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00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:16.039
her grandparents. Maxwell her son was
staying at Carrie's parents' house for the night,

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so she and Dave had the place
to themselves. They had some coffee,

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00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:24.080
and soon they started kissing. Before
things went any further, Carrie told

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00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.840
Dave that she wasn't looking for a
commitment, that she just wanted something casual

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00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.440
and to have some fun. Dave
later said, I felt like I hit

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00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.799
the jackpot. She was smart,
fun, sexy, had her act kicked

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00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.480
together, and she wanted the exact
same thing out of a relationship that he

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00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:43.879
did. He ended up staying the
night and they saw each other regularly over

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the next couple of weeks, in
between work and kids. Between his chemistry

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00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:52.879
with Carrie and Liz's behavior, Dave
was pretty much done with Liz, and

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00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:56.559
he told her that they should take
a break, but Liz wasn't ready to

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00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:01.080
let go. A few days after
Dave his first date with Carrie, Liz

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00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:05.879
send him a long, rambling email, I'm going to have you read just

220
00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:07.360
a small part of it if you
don't mind, just so you can get

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00:15:07.399 --> 00:15:13.320
an idea of Liz's mindset. I
know you don't know what will happen down

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00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:16.960
the road, and you really don't
want to think about it. Are you

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00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:20.519
asking for the long break so you
can forget everything? I'm going to give

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00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:22.480
it to you, so don't worry. I was just wondering. Sorry,

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00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:28.159
I guess I need closure. Do
I forget everything about us? I'm going

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00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:30.879
to date others, but if no
one catches my eye, do I get

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00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.639
to hope time makes the heart grow
fonder? Or do you want to go

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00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.480
and never come back. I'm not
saying we will ever get back together.

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00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:41.639
I'm just asking do I go and
never look back? I guess I hope,

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00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.159
even if you're dating others, that
you look back and you'll smile when

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00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:48.720
you think of me, that someday
you'll let me back in, no matter

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00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:54.679
what it be a friend or whatever. Good job. No man wants to

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00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:56.600
receive this, By the way,
No, no, I shouldn't say man,

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00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.519
no one that you're dating, Like, if you break it off man

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00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:03.519
or woman, like you don't want
this, you wouldn't be like, oh

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00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.559
yeah, let's give it another try. Yeap, No, that would solidify

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00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:11.399
your Yeah, I definitely want to
be done here for sure. So and

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00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.840
I think the email went on a
lot longer than that as well. It

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00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.279
was just a portion of it.
She ended the email by saying she would

240
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.919
understand if he wanted to stop talking
to her, But then she emailed again

241
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.360
a few minutes later, saying that
she hadn't hugged him the last time she'd

242
00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.279
seen him because it would have felt
like a goodbye. Dave didn't reply to

243
00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:33.080
either email. It didn't seem like
a response was warranted. But that was

244
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.639
apparently not okay with Liz, because
she emailed him again the next day,

245
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.440
saying, well, thank you for
no response to email. I get the

246
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.960
answer, that's it. Later a
few days after this, Liz called him

247
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.120
saying she just remembered that she had
left some pans at his place, so

248
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.399
he offered to bring them to her. When he got there, she got

249
00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:56.000
very flirty and they ended up having
sex. Oh good God, Dave.

250
00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:03.160
I know Dave is Yeah, he's
not the best at this whole thing.

251
00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:07.440
He and Carrie. Dave and Carrie
had both agreed that they weren't exclusive,

252
00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.839
so he wasn't cheating on Carrie,
and in his mind it was just one

253
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:17.359
last fling with Liz. But of
course she's an idiot, Yeah, she

254
00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:21.200
emailed him. Lizzy emailed him a
few days later asking if he would be

255
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:25.319
comfortable grabbing a drink or dinner with
her sometime, just as friends, acting

256
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:30.519
very casual about it. So Carrie
back to her She had a big project

257
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.440
going on at her work that was
going to require her to work long hours

258
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.119
for a week. Since Dave's apartment
was so close to her work, he

259
00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:41.279
offered to have her stay for a
few nights, and she took him up

260
00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:45.000
on it. This would save for
almost two hours of commuting time each day.

261
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:48.559
Her son Maxwell had a great relationship
with her mom and stepdad, so

262
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:52.720
he was fine staying with them for
a few days. On Tuesday, the

263
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.920
thirteenth of November, Dave had to
be at work by six point thirty in

264
00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:02.079
the morning. When he left it
six twenty five, Carrie was in her

265
00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.920
pajamas, sitting on his couch with
her laptop out and a bunch of works

266
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:10.000
spread out around her on the couch. Dave gave her a kiss and said

267
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.839
he would see her later In the
evening. She seemed happy and content.

268
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.680
He was looking forward to seeing her
later when he got back. They had

269
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.599
been seeing each other for two weeks
and she seemed just about perfect to him.

270
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:26.319
He had no way of knowing at
that time how quickly and dramatically things

271
00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:30.880
would change. Oh, here's what
we know about Carrie Farver's actions. On

272
00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:36.559
the morning of November thirteenth, at
six fifteen am, she called into her

273
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:38.720
work and she left a message with
an update about the code that she was

274
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.640
working on. At six twenty five, as I mentioned, Dave left for

275
00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:48.640
his job, leaving Carrie and her
pajamas working on the couch. At six

276
00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.519
thirty nine am, Carrie logged into
Facebook from her laptop. She had received

277
00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:56.440
a friend request from someone named Sam
Carter, who claimed to be from her

278
00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:03.079
hometown of Macedonia. She didn't know
him, which was strange because Macedonia's population

279
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:07.400
was only around two hundred and forty
people, plus he had spelled Macedonia wrong,

280
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:11.440
but she messaged him that morning asking
do I know you? And then

281
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:15.759
she logged off of Facebook at six
forty two am. At nine fifty four

282
00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:23.480
am, Carrie's phone logged into Facebook
and she unfriended Dave krupa h. Twenty

283
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:27.960
minutes later, a text came from
Carrie's phone to Dave asking if they should

284
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:33.319
move in together. Dave thought that's
weird because they had agreed to keep things

285
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.920
casual. He was busy at work
as well, and so he just texted

286
00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:42.920
back a one word response. No
seconds later, a text came back from

287
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.680
Carrie quote fine, fuck you.
I'm seeing somebody else. Don't contact me

288
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:55.400
again. I hate you, go
away unquote oh boy. Dave was shocked,

289
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:56.960
but he was also busy at work, and so he put it aside

290
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.839
for the moment, and he didn't
respond. By mid morning, Carrie's supervisor

291
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.079
at work was surprised when she hadn't
shown up yet. She had gotten Carrie's

292
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.160
message that she had left at six
fifteen am, so it was clear that

293
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.000
Carrie was working on stuff that morning. Her supervisor called and left a message,

294
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:17.559
and tried again a few times later
in the day, but there was

295
00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:22.079
no response. When Dave finished work
for the day and returned to his apartment,

296
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.480
he wasn't sure what to expect.
Would Carrie be there, would they

297
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.279
fight? It was just so strange
the message that she had sent him earlier,

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00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.640
when things had been going so well
between them. He went into his

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00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.599
apartment and there was no trace of
Carrie. She and all her stuff were

300
00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:42.200
gone, like she had never been
there. He was baffled, but at

301
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.640
the same time, he thought to
himself, well, I guess I dodged

302
00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.279
a bullet. It's hard to know
what a person is really like after just

303
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:53.000
a couple of weeks, and apparently
he had completely misread Carrie as someone who

304
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:59.119
was easy going, reasonable and drama
free, and this just reaffirmed his commitment

305
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.400
to not committing. He didn't need
the drama in his life. Meanwhile,

306
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.920
Carrie's mom, Nancy, started getting
worried when she hadn't heard from Carrie.

307
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:14.319
They normally talked or texted every day. Nancy tried calling Carrie several times to

308
00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:17.440
see when she was going to pick
up Max, but she never got a

309
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:22.640
response. When Carrie didn't show up
for her half brother's wedding that weekend,

310
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:27.359
Nancy became really concerned. She knew
that Carrie wouldn't miss the wedding. Carrie's

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00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:32.839
father, Nancy's ex husband, was
dying of stomach cancer, and her half

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00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:37.240
brother had pushed the wedding up so
that he could be there. But when

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00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:41.519
Carrie didn't show up to the rehearsal
dinner or the wedding, Nancy reported her

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00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:45.960
missing. How long had she been
missing? So Tuesday was the day that

315
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.960
she went missing, and then I
think the rehearsal dinner was Friday, so

316
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:52.359
it was a few days. Okay. The officer who took the missing person's

317
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.960
report didn't seem too concerned. After
all, Carrie was a grown woman.

318
00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:02.319
She could do what she wanted.
It wasn't long after Carrie's disappearance that the

319
00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:08.160
harassment started. Dave started receiving angry
texts from Carrie's phone. Usually Liz was

320
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.960
the target of the texts, referring
to her as a quote fat, ugly,

321
00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:18.400
whore, and other nasty names.
Liz also started getting texts and emails

322
00:22:18.440 --> 00:22:22.599
from Carrie, and even worse,
her garage was broken into and someone painted

323
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:26.960
the words whorror from Dave on her
garage wall. Liz also discovered that a

324
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:32.640
check book had been stolen, and
she reported both the theft and the vandalism

325
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:37.559
to the Omaha police. Dave hadn't
really planned on seeing Liz again, but

326
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:41.440
when she told him about the harassment
and the vandalism. He felt bad,

327
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.920
and he didn't blame her for being
upset. He felt guilty, after all,

328
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.880
he had brought this crazy carry woman
into their lives. Shortly after the

329
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:55.640
incident in Liz's garage, Nancy got
a text from her daughter's phone with a

330
00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.920
picture of a check made out to
Carrie and signed with the name Shanna Gallier,

331
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.599
Liz It's legal name. The message
from Carrie said that she had sold

332
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:10.440
her bedroom set to Shanna and asked
her mom to let Shanna into her house

333
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.359
to pick it up. Nancy didn't
believe that it was really Carrie, and

334
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.440
so she replied saying I need to
hear your voice so I know it's really

335
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:22.319
you. The reply from Carrie's phone
called Nancy a controlling, bad mother,

336
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:29.240
and there was no call to confirm
or to hear Carrie's voice. Nancy followed

337
00:23:29.319 --> 00:23:33.720
up with the police after this exchange, more certain now that something had happened

338
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.599
to Carrie or that someone had kidnapped
her. The police again didn't seem too

339
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:41.359
worried. They took a copy of
the text and the photo of the check,

340
00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:47.119
and they added it to the file. While Nancy believed that Carrie hadn't

341
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:49.599
chosen to disappear. There was some
doubt in the back of her mind.

342
00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.200
Carrie had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder
years earlier. Nancy had always doubted the

343
00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:02.880
diagnosis, believing that Carrie suffered more
from general anxiety as opposed to the extreme

344
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:07.640
mood swings that come with bipolar disorder. But maybe Carrie was having some type

345
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.559
of manic episode. She had left
her meds behind, after all. When

346
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.200
Nancy mentioned this to the police,
they seemed to take this as a confirmation

347
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:19.440
that Carrie must have left on her
own volition. I'm sorry, it seems

348
00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.960
like the police have missed a few
steps here. It seems like it.

349
00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:26.839
But you know, at the same
time, the whole check incident is very

350
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:32.400
strange. Yeah, it is a
little strange. Although the police didn't seem

351
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.160
super concerned, they actually did do
some investigations. I'll talk about that now.

352
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:40.799
On Monday the nineteenth, so six
days after Carrie had vanished and three

353
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:45.839
days after Nancy reported her missing,
an officer interviewed Carrie's supervisor at West Corporation.

354
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.680
She told the officer that Carrie hadn't
shown up for work on Tuesday,

355
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.480
and then later in the week she
had gotten a text from Carrie saying that

356
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:59.240
she was resigning and moving to Kansas
to take a new job. The police

357
00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:03.720
also contacted contacted Verizon to get Carrie's
phone records and her ping locations. The

358
00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.119
pings showed that her phone was still
in Omaha. They drove around the area

359
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.880
of the pings, which only provide
a rough location, to see if they

360
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:17.000
could spot her Ford Explorer, but
they came up empty. They also had

361
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:21.039
the photo of the check that Carrie's
mom had shared. The checks were starter

362
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:22.720
checks. There was no name or
address on them, but they could read

363
00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:27.599
the signature clearly Shanna Gallier. They
didn't know who this was, so keep

364
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:33.640
in mind the detectives investigating Carrie as
a missing person were on the Iowa side

365
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.880
of the border, and the detectives
who had taken Liz's report of vandalism and

366
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.960
theft were from Nebraska. But they
talked to Liz, who told them that

367
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.599
she and Carrie had both dated this
guy, Dave Krupa, and that Carrie

368
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:49.880
had been harassing her and had stolen
her check book. She also gave them

369
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.680
Dave's contact info. They stopped in
to see Dave at his work and he

370
00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:59.880
confirmed that Both he and Liz were
getting harassing texts and emails from this crazy

371
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.359
Carrie Farver woman. He didn't know
that she had been reported as missing,

372
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.799
and he promised to let the police
know if he saw her. Soon after

373
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:12.839
the officer left Dave's place of work, he meaning the officer, got a

374
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:18.279
text from Carrie himself. It said, quote, I don't care about this

375
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.960
missing person report, but I would
really appreciate it if you would leave Dave

376
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.240
Krupa out of it. I will
be leaving the state. My mother overreacted.

377
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.720
I have been to my house a
few times unquote. The officer responded,

378
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.599
saying they needed to speak with her
to verify that she was okay,

379
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:38.599
otherwise she would remain a missing person
in the database. The response from Carrie

380
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:42.400
said, quote, Dave texted me
and said you had the sheriff at his

381
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:47.000
work. Please stop talking to people. I have nothing to say to anyone.

382
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:51.279
I want one person to go away
for destroying everything for me. Apparently

383
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:56.240
she met Liz. By the end
of November, Dave was getting over sixty

384
00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:00.920
texts and emails a day from Carrie's
phone. Boy. One night, he

385
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.480
got a text saying, I see
you in the chair with your feet propped

386
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:07.000
up. You're wearing your blue T
shirt. Both of those things were true,

387
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:11.279
which freaked Dave out. He ran
outside, but he didn't see Kerrie.

388
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.279
He would try to block her number
or her email, but she would

389
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:21.160
just start texting from different numbers and
different email addresses. He got a new

390
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:25.200
phone number, but somehow she found
out his new number, and the harassment

391
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:37.680
continued. Let's take a quick break. I just had an incredible sense of

392
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.279
deja vu, and I realized that
I've heard this case before. You have,

393
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.839
Okay, I wonder it's I think
it's a fairly well known case.

394
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.680
So I must have watched a dateline
on Okay, here's a dateline up.

395
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:52.000
Oh yeah, Keith Morrison. It's
a good talk about the texting in the

396
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:55.240
blue shirt. I was like,
oh wait a minute, I know this.

397
00:27:55.720 --> 00:27:57.599
Oh man, I thought I had
a new one. Remember it.

398
00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:03.000
I don't remember it very well A
little bit. Sorry, that's okay,

399
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.480
all right, So the harassment is
going on here. Amy, Dave's ex

400
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.519
and the mother of his children,
also started getting dozens of threatening messages a

401
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.119
day from Carrie warning her to leave
Dave alone. Dave started getting worried for

402
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.880
his kid's safety and wouldn't let them
out of his sight when they were together.

403
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:25.400
On November twenty first, a post
appeared on Carrie's Facebook page saying that

404
00:28:25.480 --> 00:28:27.519
she was moving to Kansas for a
great job and that she would miss her

405
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:33.680
family and friends. A few days
later, another post appeared saying, Hey,

406
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.720
got a great guy, David Krupa
moving down to Kansas. Now.

407
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:40.200
If I can get my son to
move with me, I'd be so happy.

408
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:44.720
The weird thing was that her son
Max, told his grandparents that his

409
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.519
mom had actually talked about possibly moving
to Kansas at some point. So even

410
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:52.920
though Nancy believed that it wasn't her
daughter making these posts, she still had

411
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.880
like a sliver of doubt. By
the end of November, though, Nancy

412
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:02.519
and her husband Mark took action to
become Max's legal guardian, knowing that it

413
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:07.039
could be reversed if Carrie showed up
and was in her right mind. They

414
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:11.359
also reported Carrie's car, which was
in their name, as being stolen,

415
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:18.319
hoping that it would be another avenue
to help hopefully locate Carrie. On December

416
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.920
seventh, Carrie's dad, Dennis,
the one who had been battling stomach cancer,

417
00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:26.559
passed away in hospice. Yeah,
it's really sad because she wasn't there,

418
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:32.440
and you know she would have been
there for him. Soon after that,

419
00:29:32.599 --> 00:29:36.440
Nancy, who had remained good friends
with Carrie's dad even after they divorced,

420
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.839
had a vivid dream where Dennis told
her not to worry that Carrie was

421
00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:45.400
with him. She woke up in
tears, now believing that Carrie was probably

422
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.599
dead, but it would take a
long long time before she knew for sure

423
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:53.640
whether that was the case. Even
though Dave had pretty much dumped Liz before

424
00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:59.559
all this craziness started, the harassment
that they were both experiencing actually brought them

425
00:29:59.599 --> 00:30:03.680
back to other. Woah, I
know they had this kind of shared experience.

426
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.880
They could vent to each other about
crazy Carrie as they started referring to

427
00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:12.440
her, and it almost seems like
Liz got exactly what she wanted. At

428
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:18.039
this point, you might be wanting
to know more about Shanna aka Liz Gallier

429
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.599
Shanna Kay, which was her name
at birth, grew up in Kalamazoo,

430
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.559
Michigan, in nineteen and no Kalamazoo, Yeah it's a great place. In

431
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.839
nineteen seventy eight, when she was
almost three years old, the state of

432
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.319
Michigan removed Shanna and her little brother, fifteen month old George, from their

433
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:40.000
home. This was because their dad, Al was a violent, abusive alcoholic

434
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:44.599
who regularly beat up their mom d. After the kids were taken away,

435
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:48.359
d kicked Al out of the house
and the social workers approved having the children

436
00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:53.559
return back home. Before that happened, though, tragedy struck. D was

437
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.960
walking home from the laundromat where she
had been washing the linens in preparation for

438
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:03.640
her children's return home. The laundromat
was only four blocks away from home,

439
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:07.400
but an eighteen year old driver had
an epileptic seizure and veered off the road,

440
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.000
striking and killing Dee, who was
less than two weeks away from her

441
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:17.200
twenty ninth birthday. After that,
Shanna and George went into foster care,

442
00:31:17.559 --> 00:31:22.279
bouncing around to a few households before
ending up adopted by Ronald and Teresa Gallier

443
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:27.519
of Battle Creek. At that point, Shanna's name was changed from Shanna Kay

444
00:31:27.640 --> 00:31:33.559
to Shanna Elizabeth Gallier. In nineteen
eighty one, when Shanna was five,

445
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.440
her foster grandmother was murdered at age
forty six, shot and killed by her

446
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.279
ex boyfriend In a Battle Creek bar. Wow, that's a lot. Yeah,

447
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:48.000
so her childhood was certainly marred by
trauma. Shanna got married at twenty

448
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:52.759
then divorced at twenty two. She
then started dating a guy named Raymond Niche,

449
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.640
who she worked with at a plastics
factory, and she found out she

450
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:01.160
was pregnant in early nineteen ninety eight. Niche bought a trailer for the two

451
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.440
of them to live in, but
when she was eight months pregnant, Shanna

452
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.720
moved in with another guy by the
name of Glenn her She told Raymond that

453
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:13.519
Glenn was just her roommate, but
it soon became clear that there was more

454
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:19.200
to their relationship. Cody Nathaniel Gallier
was born in August of nineteen ninety eight.

455
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:23.279
He was a difficult, calicky baby
who cried a lot. In January

456
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:28.480
of nineteen ninety nine, when Cody
was five months old, Shanna called Glenn

457
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:30.279
at work, saying, I dropped
the baby. You need to get home.

458
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:35.599
By the time Glenn got home,
Cody was sleeping and he seemed fine.

459
00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:38.359
But the next day, while Shanna
was at work and Glenn and his

460
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:44.559
mom were with the baby, Cody
seemed unusually quiet and then Glenn's mother saw

461
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:49.079
that the baby wasn't breathing. Oh
no, Glenn called nine one one while

462
00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.599
his mother performed CPR, but sadly, baby Cody died. Oh my god.

463
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:58.440
The cause of death was determined to
be shaken baby syndrome. The police

464
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.160
grilled Glen, who was a bit
slow mentally, and he admitted that he

465
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:06.240
had bounced Cody on his knee and
liked to toss him in the air while

466
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:10.400
they were playing, so maybe he
was responsible for Cody's death. The doctor

467
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:15.440
who examined Cody said that his death
had been the result of at least twenty

468
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:20.039
seconds of vigorous shaking, so it's
unlikely that bouncing Cody on his knee or

469
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:23.279
playfully tossing him up in the air
would have actually caused his death. And

470
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:29.000
Glenn either didn't mention Shanna's call the
day before about dropping the baby or the

471
00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:32.400
police didn't care. They decided that
they had their man. Glenn was arrested

472
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:38.400
and charged with second degree murder.
Glenn's mom ran into Shanna at Walmart a

473
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:43.720
couple of days after Cody died.
A couple had offered to buy Shanna a

474
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:47.079
new wardrobe to take her mind off
of losing her baby, and apparently it

475
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:52.720
worked because Shanna seemed cheerful and happy, not like a grieving mother as you

476
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:59.759
might expect. Glenn's mom was shocked. At Glenn's trial, Shanna testified and

477
00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:04.119
ed to the jury several letters that
she claimed he had sent her from jail.

478
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:07.199
One of the letters asked Shanna to
cover for him and say that she

479
00:34:07.239 --> 00:34:12.760
had dropped Cody. Glenn's mom was
sure that Shanna had written the letters.

480
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.159
Her son had a learning disability and
they were much more articulate than he would

481
00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:21.440
have been. But nonetheless, Glenn
was convicted and sentenced to eight and a

482
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.000
half to twenty five years in prison. Oh my goodness. Soon after Glenn's

483
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:30.599
conviction, Shanna left Michigan and she
headed to Omaha. She actually had a

484
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:34.400
felony warrant for her arrest in Michigan
for stealing a car, and so she

485
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:38.280
apparently decided it would be best if
she skipped town. I don't have a

486
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:43.840
lot of information about how Liz spent
her first ten years in Omaha. I

487
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.039
do know that soon after moving there, she got pregnant and she had a

488
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:50.519
little girl. I don't know who
the father is, but When her daughter

489
00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:53.480
was two years old, Liz met
a different guy. She got pregnant again

490
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:58.360
and gave birth to a boy.
Liz and this guy split up, though,

491
00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:01.840
because he couldn't take Liz's constant jealousy. Soon after they split, he

492
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:07.400
started dating another woman. In what
was maybe a preview of things to come,

493
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:12.880
Liz started harassing her ex and his
new girlfriend, banging on their apartment

494
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.880
door late at night, calling the
guy when the couple was together, keeing

495
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.599
the girlfriend's car, causing thirty seven
hundred dollars worth of damage. No one

496
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.199
had seen Liz do it, though, and so she wasn't charged. Soon

497
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:29.679
after that incident, Liz left a
tearful voicemail for her ex boyfriend apologizing,

498
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:32.920
and she followed up by sending six
cookies. The funny thing is, though,

499
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:38.440
that the cookies arrived in two separate
packages, one containing four cookies labeled

500
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:43.480
with the guy's name and their son's
name, and the other package containing two

501
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:47.519
cookies labeled with the girlfriend's name.
The girlfriend was like, no thanks,

502
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:51.519
and she threw hers in the garbage, which I think was probably a smart

503
00:35:51.519 --> 00:35:55.880
move. Liz then enrolled in pharmacy
school. Coincidentally, her ex's new girlfriend

504
00:35:55.920 --> 00:36:00.559
was a pharmacist. Liz got hair
extensions. Coincidentally, they made her hair

505
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:07.639
look like the ex's new girlfriend.
Liz bought a black Mitsubishi. Coincidentally,

506
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:12.599
her ex's new girlfriend also drove a
black Mitsubishi. Eventually, though, Liz

507
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:17.159
lost interest and she moved on to
ruin other people's lives. In September of

508
00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:22.519
twenty ten, almost two years before
she met Dave Krupa, Liz met a

509
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:27.639
guy named Todd Butterbaugh through an online
dating site. Todd seems like a really

510
00:36:27.719 --> 00:36:30.800
nice guy. He had just lost
fifty pounds before meeting Liz, but he

511
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.320
still weighed about two point fifty and
he was self conscious about his weight.

512
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:38.239
He was thirty seven when they met, and he hadn't dated a lot before

513
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:44.320
he met Liz. Liz told Todd
that the men in her past relationships had

514
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:46.639
not treated her well, and so
Todd vowed to not be like those other

515
00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:52.400
guys. But it turned out that
Liz really treated Todd like crap. After

516
00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.159
a few months of dating, she
dumped him for another guy, but when

517
00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:59.840
that didn't work out, she came
back to Todd. One time, Todd

518
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:04.079
was out near his apartment complex pool
and he was surprised to see Liz's sister,

519
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.119
Marcy there. So this is Liz's
sister from the foster family that ended

520
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:12.320
up adopting her. Apparently she must
have lived in the Omaha area as well.

521
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:15.199
Marcy said, Oh, Liz just
went out to pick up some food.

522
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:19.639
When Liz showed up, she had
a guy with her and she completely

523
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:22.239
ignored Todd. Todd was like,
wait a minute, you brought your sister

524
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:27.400
and some other guy to my apartment
complex to use the pool without even telling

525
00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:31.119
me. Whenever Todd would get upset
at situations like this, Liz would turn

526
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:34.480
things around on him and be like, well, why are you getting so

527
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.039
jealous. The guy's just a friend. Don't you trust me? And Todd

528
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:43.239
would always end up backing down and
wondering whether maybe he overreacted. She would

529
00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:45.519
never show him any affection in public, but he figured that was just who

530
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:50.480
she was. He would help pay
her bills, and often he would watch

531
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:53.119
her kids when she said she had
to work. She told Todd that she

532
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:58.039
had her own cleaning business and sometimes
she had to work all night. She

533
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.760
lived in government subsidized housing as a
single mom, and she never seemed to

534
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:06.559
have any money. In June of
twenty twelve, Todd bought his grandmother's house,

535
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:08.679
who had moved into a nursing home. This was about the time that

536
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:14.599
Liz met Dave Croupa. Todd got
suspicious when he saw that Liz was spending

537
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.320
hours texting with some guy, but
she convinced him it was just her mechanic

538
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:22.280
and it was completely innocent, which
makes sense. I mean, who among

539
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.440
us does not text their mechanic for
hours at a time in the evening right.

540
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:30.320
Todd continued seeing Liz, believing that
they were in an exclusive relationship while

541
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:35.320
she was also dating Dave Krupa.
She didn't tell Dave about Todd either,

542
00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:37.679
even though he would have been happy
to know that she was dating someone else.

543
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:43.639
She didn't tell Todd about any of
the craziness going on in November or

544
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:47.440
December of twenty twelve, with her
garage getting vandalized and the harassing texts and

545
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:52.960
emails from this crazy carry woman.
In January of twenty thirteen, Todd got

546
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:58.199
a text from an unfamiliar number.
The texter said her name was Carrie and

547
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:00.800
that she was a friend of Liz's. He mentioned this to Liz, who

548
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:06.239
didn't say anything about Carrie being this
crazy stalker or anything. In fact,

549
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:10.280
she confirmed that Carrie was a friend
of hers. Carrie started texting Todd regularly,

550
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:15.599
usually small talk, but occasionally she
would say things to provoke a reaction,

551
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.519
like Liz barely mentions you. I
didn't even know you two were still

552
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:23.760
dating. Another is I know I'm
supposed to not think that this Carrie,

553
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:30.760
but obviously Carrie, Liz is Carrie. You are onto something there. Another

554
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:35.079
time he is a piece of work, she is yep. Another time she

555
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:37.599
texted, I wish I could meet
a guy like you. Sweet, handsome,

556
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:40.079
smart, and we have a lot
in common. Not trying to hit

557
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:44.800
on you. She said that Liz
had shown her a picture of Todd,

558
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.119
and she said, you are very
handsome. I would like your arms around

559
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:50.880
me, just saying I would be
proud to have you as a guy I

560
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.280
could show. Todd didn't know what
to make of all this, and he

561
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:58.719
was very careful to try to steer
the conversation away from anything too flirty or

562
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.880
personal. At one point, Todd
noticed that Carrie happened to phrase something the

563
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:07.639
way that Liz often did. He
messaged her, lol, sounds like Liz,

564
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:13.320
she always says that little did he
know how spot on he actually was,

565
00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:17.119
so he wasn't suspicious. I think, no, no, he wasn't.

566
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:22.320
I know, like in this story, it seems like like if you're

567
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:27.239
Dave or if you're Todd, like
you should have been able to figure this

568
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.320
out. But you know, I
just I just don't think they it didn't

569
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.159
occur to him, you know.
I think they just assumed that it was

570
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.199
this create, this carry person,
so they didn't have their own true crime

571
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:42.679
podcast or not suspicious of everyone and
everything in their life. Apparently not.

572
00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:46.039
But it does seem like like just
given the way that Liz was, like,

573
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:51.440
Dave knew that she would send him
these long emails and she was very

574
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:54.920
clingy and very possessive and stuff like, it does seem like, yeah,

575
00:40:55.000 --> 00:40:59.360
Dave, maybe you should have at
least had the question in her mind that

576
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:04.440
maybe Liz is behind all this.
Yeah, well, and she's chasing after

577
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.119
Dave. But it sounds like Todd's
like a good guy. Yeah, yeah,

578
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:14.920
poor Carry? Where's poor Carry?
Yeah? Late later in January,

579
00:41:15.000 --> 00:41:19.559
Todd's house was burglarized, although there
was no sign of forced entry, his

580
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:23.280
TV, his PlayStation, his laptop, computer, monitor, and some clothing

581
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:28.519
were all missing. He reported it
to the police, including the serial numbers

582
00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:31.039
of all the electronics that were stolen, so that they could circulate them to

583
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:37.440
pawn shops in case anything showed up. Are we supposed to know? I

584
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:43.639
was impressed that Todd he had maintained
a very meticulous list of all his BALI

585
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:51.039
that spreadsheets, I absolutely do not
wow. In January of twenty thirteen,

586
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:54.599
Nancy got a message supposedly from Carrie
that said, Mom, why are you

587
00:41:54.679 --> 00:42:00.119
not talking anymore? It came from
a new Facebook account that had been created

588
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:05.320
with Carrie's name. Nancy replied,
is this really you? The reply came,

589
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.400
yes, Mom, the other account
was hacked. I'm sorry I missed

590
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:12.639
the funeral. Nancy replied. The
only way I'll know it's you is if

591
00:42:12.679 --> 00:42:15.800
you call me and I hear your
voice. The response came, everything is

592
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:19.559
about phone calls. I was just
heading to bed. Who else would know

593
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:22.199
about dad? Fine, I will
call you sometime. Who else would know

594
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:25.159
I have a dad? I know. I just wanted you to know I'm

595
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:29.159
okay, I am happy. I
may not be the greatest person in the

596
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:31.000
world right now, but I am
talking. Fine, I will call you

597
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:35.519
but I'm done after that. You
have Max, and I am grateful,

598
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.400
but after the cop stuff from before, I am done. I am not

599
00:42:37.480 --> 00:42:40.280
ten years old. Mom. I
can leave him and move on with someone

600
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:47.000
new. End quote Nancy, I
forgot that Max has been with missus Farvard.

601
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:52.920
Yeah for six weeks. Yeah,
that's horrible. Poor Max, I

602
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:57.519
know. And you know poor missus
Carrey's mom. Yeah, and mud be

603
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.239
so worried. And her husband just
died. Yeah, no, her ex

604
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:04.519
husband, but yes, agreed.
Yeah, and Carrie, you know,

605
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.239
she Max was the most important thing
in the world to her, and so

606
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:12.119
for her to like just abandon her
son like that, it's just what happened.

607
00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:15.559
Crazy. Nancy still felt sure that
it wasn't really Carrie, but she

608
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.360
was holding on to whatever hope she
could, as you can imagine, like

609
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.159
as a parent, you know,
even if you believe that this person you're

610
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:25.679
talking to is not really your daughter, you want to believe it so bad,

611
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:30.000
oh for sure. Soon after that, a photo of a hand with

612
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:37.000
a sparkling engagement ring was posted on
Carrie's new Facebook profile with the caption Dave

613
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.920
and I got engaged. Nancy knew
that the hand did not belong to her

614
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.800
daughter, Carrie had long and slender
fingers, while the fingers shown in the

615
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:50.039
photo were short and stubby. On
January sixth, Dave got an email from

616
00:43:50.079 --> 00:43:53.519
Carrie's account that had a photo attached. The photo was dark and hard to

617
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:57.719
see, but it showed a woman
in the trunk of a car, hands

618
00:43:57.800 --> 00:44:01.360
behind her back and duct tape over
her mouth. It was impossible to tell

619
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:05.800
who the woman was in the photo
because it was very dark. It could

620
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:09.400
be Liz, but it might not
be her. The email said, you

621
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:12.960
will do exactly as I say,
and then I will let her go.

622
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.519
You will dump Liz and you will
start seeing me again. Dave was instructed

623
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:21.360
to call Liz's phone and leave a
voicemail breaking up with her, and then

624
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.960
Carrie would set her free. If
he didn't do it, Carrie said that

625
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.679
she would leave Liz in the trunk
in a remote location where she would die.

626
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:31.079
This was a Facebook message, No, this was an email with a

627
00:44:31.119 --> 00:44:37.440
photo attached. Time, I'm sorry, Okay. Did he contact the police

628
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:39.920
right away? He actually didn't,
so he wasn't buying it. I think

629
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:43.599
by this time he was like,
you know, he had been getting so

630
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.320
many emails and texts every day that
he was just like, this is not

631
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:51.280
a real thing. He texted Liz
to check in on her. It was

632
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.159
late in the evening. Liz didn't
respond, but she messaged him the next

633
00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:59.480
morning, asking why he had been
trying to reach her so late. Dave

634
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:04.480
replied, quote Psycho was playing games. Was just checking on you. Unquote.

635
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.800
Liz replied, so sweet. What's
up today, handsome? So I

636
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:12.840
was a little surprised he didn't call
the police, because if it had been

637
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:17.119
real, he probably shouldn't have waited
till the next morning before actually doing anything.

638
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:20.719
Yeah, if you look at a
picture of me and a trunk,

639
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:23.760
please call the police. Yes,
I went away. On January eighth,

640
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:29.079
Dave noticed a car in his apartment
parking lot that was covered in snow and

641
00:45:29.239 --> 00:45:32.840
obviously hadn't been driven in days.
He scraped some of the snow off and

642
00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:37.119
realized that it was Carrie's Ford Explorer. I was going to ask about her

643
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:42.039
car. Well now you know,
he was sure that it hadn't been there

644
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:45.480
the whole time. It made him
wonder had carried moved into his apartment complex.

645
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:50.800
He called the police, who came
and impounded the car. A crime

646
00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:55.000
scene technician processed the vehicle and found
it to be extremely clean. The seats

647
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.360
had been recently vacuumed, and there
was really nothing of note in the car.

648
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:04.639
There were no fingerprints except for a
single print on a mint container in

649
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.599
the center console, which was scanned
and searched in the database, but there

650
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:13.480
was no match. The car was
then returned to Carrie's mom. She was

651
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:16.599
surprised how clean it was because Carrie
typically left her car kind of messy,

652
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:22.199
but she assumed that the crime scene
technicians must have cleaned it before returning it

653
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:29.039
to her. Nancy also applied for
and was granted conservatorship over Carrie's bank accounts.

654
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:32.519
She found that there had been no
withdrawals from her accounts. Her debit

655
00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:37.320
card had been used twice in mid
November at stores in Omaha. Her bank

656
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:43.800
flagged them as suspicious transactions, and
they froze Carrie's account when she didn't respond

657
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:49.800
to their call. The relentless emails
and texts showed no signs of abating.

658
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:53.920
In twenty thirteen, there were thousands
of messages from over thirty different email addresses

659
00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:59.840
and thirty different phone numbers, and
a dozen or more Facebook accounts. Mostly

660
00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:04.119
they were coming in to Dave and
Liz. Dave alone was receiving an average

661
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:07.119
of fifty to sixty messages a day, but they were also coming to Amy

662
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:12.920
and Nancy. Dave and Liz both
allowed the police to download the contents of

663
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.840
their cell phones so that they had
all the evidence. Dave was still very

664
00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:22.000
much avoiding any type of serious relationship
with Liz, and he was still meeting

665
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:24.880
other women online. However, when
he would meet someone, the woman would

666
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:30.239
usually start getting threatening messages from Carrie. One message said, quote, so

667
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:34.599
you must be Dave's new horror.
He has herpes and the whore he was

668
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:37.880
dating from the hohore he was dating, I would watch out for him unquote.

669
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:44.000
Another message said I will come kill
you and your fucking kids. I

670
00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:46.280
have killed a dog owned by Dave's
last horror he tried to be with,

671
00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:51.119
Oh my goodness, and another I
know where you live. I will be

672
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:53.719
coming for you and your son.
I will kill your whole family. Some

673
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:57.280
of the women were like, yeah, you seem like a nice guy,

674
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.639
Dave, but I don't really need
this. At the same time, Liz

675
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:06.079
was putting pressure on Dave for more
of a committed relationship, even though she

676
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:09.599
was still seeing Todd as well without
him knowing he and Liz they still got

677
00:48:09.599 --> 00:48:14.039
along well enough, but he didn't
like her constant jealousy and the pressure.

678
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:17.880
She finally got him to commit to
giving her one day a week Wednesday evenings

679
00:48:17.880 --> 00:48:22.400
would belong to Liz in February,
I mean, Liz, come on one

680
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:29.159
day a week. Yeah, want
more for yourself. In February, Liz

681
00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:34.000
reported two incidents of her car being
vandalized, and in April someone scratched the

682
00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:38.800
words whor stop seeing Dave into the
side of her car. Also in April,

683
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:44.280
Nancy got a call from an unknown
number. It was a man's voice.

684
00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:46.199
He said it was Dave Krupa and
he was calling to let her know

685
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:51.559
that Carrie was staying at a homeless
shelter in Omaha and wanted Nancy to pick

686
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:55.719
her up. What hope once again
ignited inside of Nancy, She called the

687
00:48:55.760 --> 00:48:59.760
police to let them know, and
they met her at the homeless shelter.

688
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:04.199
The officer asked Nancy to wait in
the parking lot while he went in and

689
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:07.360
checked to see if Carrie was there, bringing a photo with him. Nancy's

690
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:10.840
hopes were once again dashed a few
minutes later when he came back shaking his

691
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:14.800
head. That's so cruel. I
know it is, isn't it. It's

692
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:16.960
just horrible. That's one of the
most horrible things about this case. Like

693
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.960
you have your daughter is missing,
and yet this person keeps trying to give

694
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:25.440
her some glimmer of hope. Yeah, and then just dashes those hopes over

695
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:31.119
and over again. In May of
twenty thirteen, now fifteen year old Maxwell

696
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:36.159
decided to try and make contact with
his mom or the person posing as his

697
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:40.760
mom. He messaged Carrie on Facebook, just saying hi. The response came

698
00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:45.239
quickly, Hey, little man,
how are you? His mom had never

699
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:51.079
referred to him as little man,
but he replied asking Carrie to answer three

700
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:54.280
questions. Oh smart Max, what
is my middle name? What was the

701
00:49:54.360 --> 00:49:58.760
name of our first boxer? And
who was my best friend when I was

702
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:01.239
growing up? Yeah? These were
questions, at least the last two that

703
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:07.320
only his mom would probably know the
answers to there was no response. One

704
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:12.119
email sent in May had a picture
of Liz's kids. It looked like it

705
00:50:12.159 --> 00:50:15.559
had been taken from outside her house
looking in through a window. The message

706
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:20.440
said, quote, these are the
ugliest kids, just like their horror mom.

707
00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:22.199
They should die with their horror mom
so I don't have to see their

708
00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:28.920
ugliness anymore. No one wants her
and her Brady kids around. Unquote on

709
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:32.119
May eleventh, Carrie, and I
use Carrie in quotes from here on out,

710
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:36.440
because you know it's not really Carrie. But she sent Dave a link

711
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:40.000
to a page on remembered dot com, which is a site where people post

712
00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:45.199
obituaries and memorials to loved ones.
The link was to a page created as

713
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:50.800
a memorial to Liz with the dates
June twenty eighth, nineteen seventy five to

714
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:55.039
May eleventh, twenty thirteen. The
obituary said, I didn't know her very

715
00:50:55.079 --> 00:50:59.400
well, except that she was a
whore and a man stealer. She kept

716
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:01.199
stealing my mind. Man. She
is unable to get her own man,

717
00:51:01.320 --> 00:51:06.239
so that she has to keep taking
everyone else's men. Thank god she has

718
00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:09.239
gone. Good riddance to you.
The next day, Dave got an email

719
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:13.280
that said, quote, I am
trying to hire someone to get rid of

720
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:15.840
that horror Liz for us. You
told me before you wanted her gone.

721
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:20.920
I can't do it myself because the
cops will figure it out. The email

722
00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:25.079
continued asking if she should also have
Liz's kids killed. It closed with I

723
00:51:25.159 --> 00:51:28.920
love you, Dave, and I'm
glad you're in this with me. I

724
00:51:28.960 --> 00:51:32.920
hope to see you soon, your
beautiful Carrie. Liz claimed to be terrified,

725
00:51:32.960 --> 00:51:37.440
but Dave did his best to reassure
her that Carrie was just trying to

726
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:42.440
scare her. In June, Dave
was at Amy's house seeing his kids,

727
00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:45.639
and when he got back to his
apartment, he found that someone had thrown

728
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:50.079
a brick through the bedroom window of
his apartment. Carrie sent him an email

729
00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:54.920
taking responsibility. Also in June,
Dave found his car scratched with the message

730
00:51:55.039 --> 00:52:01.960
quote Dave Love's fat horrors unquote.
Oh while it may seem obvious now that

731
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:07.199
it wasn't really Carrie behind all the
harassment and vandalism, and we talked about

732
00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:09.960
this a little bit, but Dave
never suspected that it wasn't her. Although

733
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:15.039
Liz had certainly shown a history of
being possessive and jealous, he never suspected

734
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:20.679
her because she was also being targeted, and several times they would both get

735
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:23.719
messages from Carrie while they were together
and Liz's phone might be sitting on the

736
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:28.920
other side of the room. There
was another thing that happened in twenty thirteen

737
00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:32.760
that should have tipped Dave off.
He was walking home from the bar one

738
00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:36.599
night. He didn't used to be
to be much of a drinker, but

739
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:40.039
the constant stress and the relentless onslaught
of messages was getting to him, and

740
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:44.840
he started making a habit of hanging
out at his local watering hole after work.

741
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:47.360
It was around eleven or twelve at
night, and he was in the

742
00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:52.519
parking lot of his apartment complex walking
home when he heard a noise. He

743
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:57.840
looked over and he saw Liz crawling
on the ground. She crept behind a

744
00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:00.559
car like she was hiding from him. Dave called her name a couple of

745
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.800
times, but there was no answer. He was cold, and he was

746
00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:07.320
annoyed and a little bit drunk,
and so he just went inside. He

747
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.920
then got a text from her saying, quote, I'm sorry, I'm drunk.

748
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:14.440
I was over across the street at
the bar with my friends. I

749
00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:19.440
don't know what I'm doing unquote.
But this wasn't enough for Dave to suspect

750
00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:23.199
that Liz might be behind all the
harassment. In the summer of twenty thirteen,

751
00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:27.320
Liz told Todd that she could no
longer pay her bills and she was

752
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:30.320
going to become homeless. Todd had
already helped her a lot, but he

753
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:34.239
felt bad not only for her,
but for her kids, and so he

754
00:53:34.320 --> 00:53:37.159
offered to let them stay at his
house. His roommate had recently moved out,

755
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:42.280
so he had the space. She
moved in, and Todd, thinking

756
00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:45.920
that Liz was his girlfriend, expected
that she would stay in his room,

757
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:50.440
but she immediately claimed the basement as
her own. You might not be surprised

758
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:53.239
to hear that Liz was a horrible
roommate. She never offered to chip in

759
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:58.679
for utilities or anything. She was
a slob. She never cleaned up after

760
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:02.719
herself. The basement quickly became a
disaster area, with dirty clothes, trash,

761
00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:07.440
fast food, packaging, and more
covering the floor. She never washed

762
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:10.920
the dishes. She rarely made dinner. When she did make dinner, it

763
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:14.760
was just for her and her kids. She never offered anything to Todd.

764
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:19.400
She loved fast food, and she
would often text Todd from the basement begging

765
00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:22.440
him to drive to McDonald's. Todd
was a pushover, so he would go

766
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:25.199
and buy dinner for her and the
kids, and of course, she never

767
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:30.039
offered to pay him back. Liz
spent most of her time when she was

768
00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:34.480
there hold up in the basement,
communicating with Todd via text. The two

769
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:38.400
did occasionally have sex, but it
was rare. Todd quickly regretted inviting her

770
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:42.840
to move in and thought that maybe
if he paid for everything, she could

771
00:54:42.840 --> 00:54:46.519
save her money and move out sooner. By late summer of twenty thirteen,

772
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:52.400
Dave was again getting fed up with
Liz's jealousy and her nagging, and he

773
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:55.960
dumped her once again. Soon after
that, the Omaha Fire Department was called

774
00:54:57.000 --> 00:55:00.920
out to Liz's house. She still
hadn't completely moved out of her government subsidized

775
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:05.920
house, although most of her stuff
was now at Todd's. When the fire

776
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:09.679
department arrived at Liz's house, the
fire had already burned itself out. It

777
00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:13.639
hadn't burned the whole house down,
but it did a lot of damage.

778
00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:17.079
There hadn't been any people inside the
house, but Liz and her kid's four

779
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:22.440
pets, two dogs, a cat, and a snake all died from smoke

780
00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:27.239
inhalation. It didn't take long to
figure out that the fire was a result

781
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.920
of arson. There was a gas
can on the floor of the living room,

782
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:35.199
a lighter fluid container in the kitchen, and the fire had originated in

783
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:39.719
multiple places, which is always suspicious. Liz told investigators that it was carried.

784
00:55:40.199 --> 00:55:44.400
She showed them an email that she
had received early that morning that said,

785
00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:47.880
hope you and your kids burned to
death. Of course, Liz immediately

786
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:52.960
called Dave, freaking out and begging
him to come see her. He had

787
00:55:52.039 --> 00:55:55.280
dumped her, but now, of
course he felt bad because this was all

788
00:55:55.320 --> 00:56:00.199
his fault for letting carry into their
lives, so once again he went and

789
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:04.280
tried to comfort her. She told
him she had lost everything, even though

790
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:07.880
she had really moved almost all of
her stuff to Todd's house already. Once

791
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:14.559
again, Carrie had somehow brought Dave
and Liz back together again. The rest

792
00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:19.320
of twenty thirteen was more of the
same. In August, Carrie texted Nancy,

793
00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:22.960
I'm in Omaha. I'm not hurt
Mom. I miss everyone too.

794
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:25.320
I just had a breakdown and I
think I'm getting over it. I should

795
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:30.559
have come to my senses sooner and
realized the guy wasn't worth it. Again,

796
00:56:30.880 --> 00:56:34.079
Nancy said, I need to hear
your voice to know it's really you

797
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:37.880
this time. The reply came,
Okay, let me pull over once again.

798
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:45.719
Nancy's hopes started to rise, but
the call never came. Months ago,

799
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:49.199
Carrie was supposed to call her when
she was like, this is this

800
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:52.360
is the last time, and so
she never Obviously she never called her.

801
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.440
Then yeah, mom, just let
it go. Yeah, yep. In

802
00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:00.199
October, Dave showed up at work
one day to find a message spray painted

803
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:05.880
in orange on the front window of
his shop, Dave Beats Women. In

804
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:08.960
December, someone broke into Dave's apartment. There was writing on the wall in

805
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:13.840
red crayon that said go away,
whore, and some of Liz's clothing that

806
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:17.440
was there had been slashed with a
knife. As the one year anniversary of

807
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:22.039
Carrie's disappearance passed, Dave was drinking
regularly to deal with the stress. He

808
00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:27.119
gained forty pounds during the year,
and he constantly had dark circles under his

809
00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:30.079
eyes. And with that, I
think it's a good point to break and

810
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:35.480
end Part one. Holy moly,
I'm like a bobblehead over here shaking my

811
00:57:35.519 --> 00:57:39.320
head at all this crazy story.
I know, it's just it. It

812
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:44.960
is insane, and how long it
went on we're not even insane. Liz

813
00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:51.159
is insane, I mean, yes, yeah, crazy crazy. So the

814
00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:53.840
police, so Carrie has been missing
for how long? Now? A year?

815
00:57:54.400 --> 00:58:00.440
A year? Yeah, and is
anyone investigating her disappearance? I don't

816
00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:02.880
think they were actively doing a whole
lot. I think they thought it was

817
00:58:02.920 --> 00:58:07.880
a missing person. They kind of
believed that, oh, this person's harassing,

818
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:10.400
so they were investigating, like the
harassment. I mean, come on,

819
00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:15.360
yeah, I know it's hindsight is
twenty twenty, but yeah, there

820
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:20.559
should have been. Poor Carrie's mom
must have just been beside herself. Yeah,

821
00:58:20.639 --> 00:58:22.519
oh, I'm sure she was.
Yeah, and I think she was

822
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:25.719
trying to get the investigation. Yeah. She kept trying to convince the police

823
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:30.280
that her daughter was probably not alive
anymore and they needed to investigate, you

824
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:34.800
know, from that perspective, and
they just weren't having it. Well,

825
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:39.360
I hope you're gonna tell us how
max Is and Nancy. I will Carrie's

826
00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:45.320
mom, yes, because I am
worried about them right now. And Liz

827
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:47.920
has two kids. How old are
her kids? I think they were somewhere

828
00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:52.000
around like maybe nine and eleven years
old at this point, So those poor

829
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:57.440
kids have had a very tumultuous upbringing. And I hope they're okay too.

830
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.239
I hope so too. I don't
really have any update on them, but

831
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:04.880
I will. Yeah, I will
talk about the other folks that you mentioned

832
00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:07.360
at the end of part two,
all right, and you sent me some

833
00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:12.039
pictures, which of course we'll post. Is always on social media, but

834
00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.280
yeah, Liz is I'm not going
to make fun of anyone's appearance. But

835
00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:21.920
she looks she looks a little crazy. Yeah, Carrie looks like a nice

836
00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:25.880
lady. Oh well that was that
was quind of ride. Can I unbuckle

837
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:30.280
yet? Well you can unbuckle for
a little bit, but part two it

838
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:32.400
is not going to be any less
crazy. So uh, Like I said,

839
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:37.360
I did hear the story before,
but I don't really remember other than

840
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:44.440
Liz was pretending to be Carrie.
So we mentioned twin Flames earlier. Do

841
00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:47.559
you want to tell people about that
for a minute before we wrap up today?

842
00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:52.800
Sure, just I don't really want
to say too much about it other

843
00:59:52.880 --> 01:00:00.880
than twin Flames is like soulmate to
the Alder soul eight. Yeah, it's

844
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:06.360
like you're spiritual, like from God
telling you this is your your soulmate or

845
01:00:06.400 --> 01:00:09.320
your twin Flame yea, and it
it started as a podcast, and I

846
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:14.039
did listen to the podcast part of
it, and I think I forgot to

847
01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:19.960
finish it. But then I was
clicking around Amazon Prime, which we don't

848
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:24.599
really watch much on there, but
yeah, for some reason, I watched

849
01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:28.320
one episode and then I was like, well, I need I need I

850
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:30.199
mean, this is right up our
alley. Yeah, yeah, I need

851
01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:34.400
you to watch it with me.
So it's on Amazon and it's called Desperately

852
01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:38.480
Seeking Soulmate Escaping Twin Flames Universe,
and we're not going to see anything else

853
01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:43.559
other than interesting documentary. I watched
two of the three parts, and I'm

854
01:00:43.639 --> 01:00:46.239
very anxious to see the third part
because I really don't know how what's gonna

855
01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:50.039
end up happening. I know,
just I always just seem to know just

856
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:52.639
a little bit about everything, but
yeah I did know a little bit.

857
01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:58.360
So yeah, check that out if
you are looking for something good to watch.

858
01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:00.320
Yeah, it was gonna say if
you're looking for your twin flame,

859
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:04.239
but you know, who knows if
that is real or not. I have

860
01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:07.079
one more thing for you, and
I'm I just got this breaking news.

861
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:13.840
While we're sitting here recording you don't
know this yet. Your live reaction might

862
01:01:13.880 --> 01:01:15.840
be interesting. Okay, I'm just
going to read this to you. Jim

863
01:01:15.920 --> 01:01:22.239
Harbaugh of Michigan was suspended from sign
sideline coaching for the regular season amid sign

864
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:29.360
stealing allegations. Wow he suspended for
three games? Oh yeah, I guess

865
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.280
I was going to say that the
rest of Yeah, there's only three market

866
01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:37.079
three pretty important games too. How
are you? I need time. I

867
01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:39.960
need a little time to process this. I don't know, I don't know,

868
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:44.800
I don't know. Huge gainst Penn
State. Holy crap, I don't

869
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:47.360
know how many people. Probably no
one who's listening other than me, you

870
01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:52.159
care. But Michigan is undefeated,
They've have a they've had a beautiful season.

871
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:55.880
They've been ranked up near the top
the whole. So this is a

872
01:01:57.039 --> 01:02:00.719
huge blow. I mean, shame
on them if they were actually stealing signs.

873
01:02:00.760 --> 01:02:01.880
I mean, that can't make you
proud as a Michigan No, for

874
01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:07.119
sure, as not what a Michigan
man does. Well apparently some tips.

875
01:02:08.719 --> 01:02:15.920
Wow, Well thanks for sharing that. Really without being able to process that.

876
01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:21.199
As always, I gotta go.
You want a tissue? Yeah,

877
01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:24.679
I'm leaving. We have another podcast. Always record here yeah, thank you

878
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:29.159
everyone for listening. Hope you stay
tuned and come back for part two.

879
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:35.039
Please rate, review, subscribe,
and like and consider supporting us on Patreon,

880
01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:37.639
Patreon dot com, slash love Mary
Kill, where you can get early

881
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:42.119
access to episodes, AD free episodes, and when we do a two parter

882
01:02:42.239 --> 01:02:45.400
like this, you can get both
episodes at the same time. We appreciate

883
01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:52.800
you so much your kind words,
messages, reviews. They keep us going

884
01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:58.920
and we really do appreciate you.
And I feel we talk about this a

885
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:01.119
lot. We don't real talk about
it on the podcast. I feel like

886
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:06.800
an impostor impostor syndrome is real.
We started this, you know, as

887
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:10.559
you know, over a year ago
and we still can't believe that people are

888
01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:15.400
listening. So we just want you
to know that we truly do appreciate it.

889
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:17.199
We always will. And oh,
I have to give a shout out

890
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:22.119
to a random person in Australia too. By the way, So my boss

891
01:03:22.119 --> 01:03:25.920
who lives in Australia in Melbourne,
your boss and friend and friend. He

892
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:30.000
messaged me a few days ago and
he said, I'm out to lunch in

893
01:03:30.039 --> 01:03:34.960
Melbourne and I was talking about your
podcast, which is pretty nice of him

894
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:37.360
to talk about our podcast, and
he said the waitress said, I listened

895
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:39.760
to it and I love it.
I was like, you are joking.

896
01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:44.360
I thought he was making that up. He said, no, swear swear

897
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:46.440
to God, I'm not joking.
So maybe the waitress was just shout out

898
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:52.400
to that anonymous waitress in Melbourne,
if you're listening, thank you, And

899
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:54.280
it just blowl me away to the
amount of people that we have that listen

900
01:03:54.400 --> 01:04:00.760
to us. Yeah, domestic or
domestically and around the world, yes,

901
01:04:01.159 --> 01:04:04.360
thank you. So until next time, don't kill her husband. Don't kill

902
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:13.719
your wife. M