Cari Farver, Liz Golyar, and Dave Kroupa - Part 2

WEBVTT

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I am Rich and I'm Tina.
And if there's one thing we've learned in

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over twenty years of marriage, some
days you'll feel like killing your husband,

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and some days you'll feel like killing
your wife. Welcome to love, Mary

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Kill Hey Tina, Hey Rich,
how are you. I'm a little sleepy.

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Yeah. When we'd have a two
part episode, we you know,

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record one part and then yeah,
every time I wore you out with part

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one a little bit. What people
don't see behind the scenes is, well,

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people don't see behind the scenes,
like how many times we have to

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stop? And it was a little
bit of a slog a little longer than

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we anticipated. You look cozy though, You've got your blanket on, You've

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got your nice chair. You're like, look like you're all ready to be

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tucked in for the night. I
kind of am. Yeah, I'm a

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little tired in its one six o'clock, five o'clock, five ten change.

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I meant to mention in the last
episode because now everyone's like time change.

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It was weeks ago. The time
change this week really impacted me more than

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I thought it would. We think
this many years in I would be used

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to it, but no, I
really hard. I think, Yeah,

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and I was a little, a
little grumpy with you for a few hours.

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We don't fight that often, but
it was I don't know, I

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was a little a little bit,
you're a little bit. I was a

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lot. But everything's good. We
worked it out. We did. We

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did. Like funny, after this
many years of marriage, it's like,

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what would it take for it to
end? I mean, you know what

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I mean. It's just like,
yeah, ran over the logo. I

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don't know. Yeah, I didn't
in our last little disagreement. I did

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not even once think about leaving.
It's like I'm in it, same same

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good dear, so happy Thanksgiving,
happy things, Thanksgiving week, Happy Thanksgiving

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listeners. Oh is it really already? Geez? It's crazy. Yeah,

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I guess, I guess so.
I'm just like, my mind is like

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blown because I know this. We're
recording this and it won't come out for

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another week and a half. But
I didn't realize Thanksgiving was that close.

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Yeah. Well, I'm sure you've
got your Christmas shopping wrapped up. Oh

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well, I had it done in
September already. Cute Yeah, same,

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Well I haven't decorated the house yet, which it's so crazy looking at social

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media it's like ye, like I'm
it's only what's today November tenth, Yeah,

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and you're way behind. I mean
I've got behind because I don't I

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like to do it before the last
few years, we've done it before Thanksgiving.

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But your birthday is coming up November
thirtieth. Yeah, so it's weird.

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There's just a lot going on.
But yeah, next week I'm planning

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and decorating before Thanksgiving, and then
I think we're going to take a little

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mini trip for Thanksgiving. Yeah.
I think we're going to go to Toronto.

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Yeah, Canadian friends up north.
Yeah, we're five hours away.

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Ish. If anyone is listening from
Toronto and you have a little extra bedroom

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in your house, I'm joking.
If you have recommendations though, places to

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go, things to do, we're
always up for that. Yeah. So

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the last episode, we left off
with a little bit of a cliffhanger Jim

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Harbaugh, Yeah, exactly in University
of Michigan. Yeah, you've had,

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like, you know, twenty minutes
to process it. How are you feeling?

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I am a little I'm still this
whole scandal thing has been going on

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for a while, and I honestly
haven't tracked it that closely. I do

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like, if what you said at
the end of last episode is completely true,

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if Michigan was doing something shady like
stealing signs, I do not condone

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it at all, even though I'm
a big Michigan supporter. That's you know,

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not a good thing to do.
But can I just interrupt for a

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second and explain, because when I
initially saw stealing signs, I thought it

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meant like like the players were joking
on each other and like go blue and

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somebody ext they were like going over
to Lansing and stealing like you know,

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sides. But no, it means
like a little different kind of sign right,

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like hand signals and things like that. Anyway, So what I was

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going to say though, is I
am not well versed on this scandal at

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all, but what I did read
during our little break made me a little

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angry because it does seem like there's
like an ongoing investigation and it's not completed

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yet, and yet they already decided
they're going to suspend Jim Harbaugh for the

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rest of the season when they haven't
even finished the investigation and Michigan is cooperating

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with the investigation. Seem a little
defensive, but well, it just mads

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time to move on. I think
we've spent way more time. Yes,

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we have tended. So we were
talking about the Christmas season being upon us

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earlier, so I wanted to transition
to bring up a great Christmas gift idea.

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No, I'm shaking my head.
You still have You have two more

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days to buy any Love Mary Kill
yeah t shirts or sweatshirts, So message

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me at Lovemary Kill at gmail dot
com or social media if you have any

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questions, yeah, and we will
have a link for them. We'll have

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a link to the web shop in
our show notes and on Instagram. But

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the store closes forever on Tuesday at
midnight, So I'm sorry if you're listening

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to this Wednesday or later. But
yeah, we will probably do it again

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in the future if anyone has purchased
anything the first time. And uh,

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maybe some more interesting designs in the
future. Yeah, all right, enough

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business. Okay, Well we've got
a snack as well, so yeah,

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I came for the snack. I'm
here. Well, last time we had

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those lovely Bisco cheetos from our listeners. This time it's not anything that exciting.

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And can I just I you were
like you kept clearing at me because

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I was eating them the last episode, like you were like, you're going

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to eat all of them? And
I did eat I did. They were

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just like they ran a melt and
they were really yummy. Whenever we do

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a two part episode, I always
forget about the snack for part two,

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and so I went out and grabbed
lunch today and I was like, I

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got to go to the gas station
and pick up a snack. So I

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just found something station I thought looked
interesting. And it is a new a

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thing I haven't seen before, at
least Touredo's. And it's called dynam Dynamita

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Dynamita Dynamita Chile lemon. And they're
not like Chile limone. That is the

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the way it's supposed to be pronounced, I believe, But they're not like

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regular dourdo's. They're like rolled up
in like a little probably copping off.

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What are the other our sun eats
that taco takeo takeito? Is it?

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No? I don't know, takis? Maybe? Oh is that it?

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Maybe? Yeah? I can hear
people yelling at me through the radio,

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well, uh yeah, let's try
these out. And bag bag of chips

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had it all right, we'll be
right back. Do you think about those

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Dorito's dynam mita, they made my
eyes water. They're really potent matter and

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my throat. They were lots spicier
than you would think. I think there's

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a lot of flavor in a small, little rolled up Yeah, Ritilla,

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I think they're good, almost at
a little too much. I think if

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you're a college student you would,
or a high school student you would really

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be into them. Yeah. Yeah. It's the kind of thing like if

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you're really into like hot peppers and
stuff, you would probably like them.

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Yea. I think our sun will
like them. Before we started recording,

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I grabbed two Clementines and I just
wanted to say, clement the Clementines have

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been so good. Yeah, so
far this season good. I know the

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content is scintillating, scintillating. All
right, let's talk about the case of

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Carrie Farvar, Liz Gallier and Dave
Krupa. That's not I think we should.

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I think people are going to want
to know what happened. Okay,

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get so nervous when you say this
recap. Okay, I'm going to try

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to do it quick because sometimes they
go along too long, and I'm going

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to need your help because I was
listening and I didn't take a ton of

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notes. Okay, So our main
character is Liz. What's her last name,

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Gollier, Liz Gollier. Liz Gollier
had a She had a tough time

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growing up. Her mom died when
she was young, and she and her

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brother were put in foster care.
I believe she was eventually adopted into a

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nicer family. She has she has
some issues, like she's just not right.

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Yeah, she has a couple of
kids. Her kids are like ten

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and eleven. At the time of
the story, she uh she wasn't with

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the father of her children very long, right, is that true? Okay?

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And she's obsessed with this fella named
Dave Krupa, who is like a

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mechanic and obsessed might be putting it
lightly. So poor Dave. Dave was

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with Amy. They had a long
term relationship that they had a couple of

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kids. They were together for twelve
years and they broke up. Dave was

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like, I am just gonna date, I'm going to have a good time

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and I'm not going to get serious
with anyone. And then he met Liz

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and he was trying to keep it
kind of mellow, but Liz is very

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intense, and she would send him
like hundreds of text messages and emails and

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she wanted it to be become more
serious, and then he would try to

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break up, and then she'd say, oh, I left my pants at

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your house, so I need to
come and get my pants. And then

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they would have sex, and because
Dave is weak, and then Dave was

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like, I've had enough, and
then he started, I'm already going on

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too long. He met Carrie.
Carrie seemed like a really nice, pretty

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young a lovely young woman. Actually, all of these people are in their

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thirties. They're all thirty somethings.
And they had been dating for a couple

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of weeks. Carrie was hanging out
at Dave's house and she disappeared. Yeah,

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but then she and then she no
one ever talked to her again.

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And then but she's sending all these
horrible messages to Dave. She has a

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teenage son named Max, who she's
been on for like six weeks at this

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point, and her mom is really
concerned. And I actually know she at

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the point where she was gone for
a year. Yeah, and Max is

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with Carrie's mom. Yeah, and
you're gonna what else I mean there was.

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It wasn't just like harassing text messages. There was also things going on

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like bricks being thrown through Dave's window, cars, both Dave's and Liz's cars

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being keyed, and vandalism and yeah, just all kinds of horrible stuff.

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And it was mostly targeted at Dave
and Liz. And it appeared that it

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was coming from Carrie. That's what
Dave just assumed that it was from Carrie.

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But we know it well. And
Carrie was posting on her and she

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had posted a picture of an engagement
ring, right, Yeah, that was

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weird. Yeah, it was like
Carrie. It was almost like she was

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living this imaginary life where she and
Dave are together, which wasn't the case.

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So yeah, all right, tell
us more. All right, So

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we are now into twenty fourteen.
So Carrie disappeared in November of twenty twelve,

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so we're now over a year has
passed and the harassment has been going

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on, all these emails, all
this stuff has been going on for over

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a year now. In January of
twenty fourteen, Dave invited Heather, an

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old friend of his and sometimes girlfriend, to visit from Sioux Falls, South

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Dakota, where Dave was from.
He had gone to high school there.

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Heather came to visit. They ended
up in Dave's bedroom and then they heard

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a rattling at his patio door,
like someone was trying to open it.

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Heather was freaked out, but Dave
was like, Ah, don't worry,

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it's just my stalker. This is
just the way it is, okay.

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And then suddenly there was a sound
of shadow in glass and they found a

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brick on the bathroom floor. Heather
was freaking out by this point, but

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again Dave was surprisingly calm. He's
just like, this is just how my

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life is. Well, and you
had said we didn't talk about this,

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but Dave had kind of developed some
bad habits. He was drinking too much,

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he'd gained a bunch of weight,
and he was just under a lot

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of stress. I mean, he's
getting like sixty emails and messages a day

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from this stalker. So he did
end up calling the police. They came

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out, took a report, but
there wasn't a whole lot else that they

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could do. Dave then told Heather
about the whole situation, how he and

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this other woman, Liz, were
being constantly harassed by this woman, Carrie,

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that he had only dated for two
weeks over a year ago. Heather,

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who was much more perceptive than Dave, said, maybe this is Liz

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who threw the brick through the window. After all, If this Carrie is

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so obsessed with you, why hasn't
she shown herself to you in over a

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year. And Dave was like,
no, it couldn't be Liz. We've

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both received messages many times and we're
together, and Liz is always terrified when

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it happens. Later in twenty fourteen, Dave took Liz with him on a

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trip to Sue Falls, a two
and a half hour drive, to see

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some of his old friends and family. While there, they visited one of

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Dave's oldest and best friends, a
woman named Tay Andy Braver or Tay.

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Tay was married with two kids,
and she had always been purely platonic friends

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with Dave. She had known him
since he was in diapers, and she

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thought of him as a little brother. At the end of their visit,

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Tay, being polite, said to
Liz, oh, you should come back

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and visit sometime. Just by that
little nicety. She had no idea what

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she was getting herself into. Because. A few weeks later, she gets

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a call from Liz asking what are
you doing this weekend? Tay said,

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not much, just hanging out,
and before she knew it, Liz was

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at her doorstep with a suitcase,
ready to stay the weekend. Liz seemed

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surprised that there was a house full
of people. Tay's husband and kids were

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there, and her father in law
was also staying with them. Liz seemed

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to think that it would be just
her and Tay hanging out, having a

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girl's weekend together. Oh wow.
Tay was very polite, probably too polite,

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inviting Liz into her home to stay
for the weekend when she really barely

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knew her. At one point,
Heather dropped by. So Heather was the

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one that had come to see Dave
that he had known since high school.

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She was also friends with Tay,
and she was also the one that suggested

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to Dave that maybe Liz was the
one who broke the window. But anyway,

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she showed up at Tay's house.
Tay introduces her to Liz and Liz

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says, oh, Heather, Oh, you're the one who came to see

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Dave. He should have brought you
to my place. When crazy Carrie threw

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the brick through the window. Heather
was not buying into Liz's bullshit even a

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little bit. She said, I
don't even know you, why would I

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00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.919
stay at your house? Liz then
asked what were you doing at Dave's and

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Heather said, you know, Dave
and I have been friends with benefits for

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decades. I'll always be here.
I was here before and I'll be here

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00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.759
after. You You're just the Wednesday
girl, referring to Dave's commitment to see

213
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:09.279
Liz every Wednesday couch. And then
Heather walked out, leaving Liz fuming.

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00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:13.799
The weekend got even weirder, though, Liz suggested to Tay that they should

215
00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.759
go visit Dave's parents, who lived
nearby. Tay called Dave's mom to see

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if they could come by, which
was surprising to Dave's mom because she didn't

217
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:28.519
really know Tay that well and she
didn't know Liz at all. But apparently

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00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.000
everyone in Sue Falls, except maybe
Heather, is polite to a fault,

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00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.679
so she said, sure, come
on over. After they got there,

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Liz went on and on about the
stalker situation, worrying Dave's parents. They

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00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:43.720
had already actually bought Dave a gun
for protection, but Liz was like,

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he probably needs some more guns just
to be safe. After they left Dave's

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00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.320
parents home, Liz suggested they go
out to dinner, so Tay and her

224
00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:58.120
husband took her to a Chinese place. After ordering, Liz got up to

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use the restroom and she didn't come
back for a long time. Finally Tay

226
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.200
went to check on her and she
found her in the restroom on the phone

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00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.720
with Dave having a heated argument,
probably because Dave had no idea that Liz

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00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:15.320
had gone to see his friend.
Can you imagine. Finally Liz came back

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00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.240
to the table and the dinner continued
awkwardly, with Liz not saying a whole

230
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.919
lot. And of course, when
the bill came, there was no offer

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00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:25.799
from Liz to chip in or pay
for the tip or anything. But wait,

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00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:30.000
it gets weirder still. As bedtime
approached, it was awkward because there

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00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.559
wasn't a spare bed at Tay's house
because their father in law. Her father

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00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:37.639
in law was staying with them.
Tay's husband was on a different schedule because

235
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he had been working third shift and
he was planning to stay up and play

236
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video games, so Tay said that
Liz was welcome to sleep with her in

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their queen sized bed. At one
point during the night, Tay rolled over

238
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:53.399
to find Liz with her eyes wide
open, just staring at her. I

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00:16:53.399 --> 00:17:00.240
mean me at all. Liz woke
up at five am and she said I

240
00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.400
want to go home now, which
was fine by Tay, who hadn't gotten

241
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.599
any sleep at all. She thought
that Liz was very odd but harmless.

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00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:14.079
Liz left, but soon after she
started calling and texting Tay regularly like they

243
00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:18.440
were BFFs. She invited Tay to
come stay with her, but Tay always

244
00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.880
found an excuse. Coincidentally, Tay
also started getting fifty to one hundred texts

245
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:29.319
and emails from Carrie accusing her of
being one of Dave's whores. Where is

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00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.279
Liz living at this point? Is
she still living with Todd? Yeah?

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00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.240
Yeah, she's living with Todd.
Overall, twenty fourteen was very similar to

248
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:44.039
twenty thirteen. The onslaught of messages
continued targeted at Dave, Liz, Dave's

249
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:48.559
ex Amy, and any woman that
Dave dated. Nancy would occasionally get messages

250
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:53.000
allegedly from Carrie that seemed designed to
get her hopes up only to be dashed

251
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:59.000
again. There was no progress in
the police investigation and no closure for Carrie's

252
00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:03.799
family. So now it's twenty fifteen, more than two years have passed since

253
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:11.039
Carrie's disappearance. The harassment and the
stalking continued, but finally there was progress

254
00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.400
in the investigation. Why didn't Dave
change his phone number? He did many

255
00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:19.039
times, multiple times. Oh okay, yeah, and miraculously, miraculously,

256
00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:25.920
this crazy Carrie somehow found his new
number every time. So in the investigation,

257
00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:33.400
these two detectives from the Pottawatamee County
Police Department in Iowa, Jim Dody

258
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:37.880
and Ryan Avis, they had heard
some water cooler talk about the Carrie Farver

259
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:41.480
missing persons and the harassment case,
and they were intrigued, and so they

260
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.200
asked if they could be assigned to
the case. The deputy who had been

261
00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:48.160
in charge of the investigation was more
than happy to get this one off his

262
00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:53.319
desk, and so he turned over
the files. Avis and Dody started with

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00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:59.160
the very basic fact that there were
two possibilities. Either Carrie was alive and

264
00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:03.359
she was respond for all the harassment, or she was dead and therefore someone

265
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:08.559
else was doing the harassing. So
they split the investigation in two. Avis

266
00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:15.240
investigated on the assumption that Carrie was
alive and Dodie approached it assuming that Carrie

267
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:19.519
was dead. Avis quickly came to
the conclusion that it was highly unlikely that

268
00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:22.799
Carrie was still alive. No one
had seen her for two and a half

269
00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:27.440
years, her bank account and her
credit cards hadn't been touched, her car

270
00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:33.039
was abandoned, and if that was
the case, if she wasn't alive,

271
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then who would have the motive to
not only kill Carrie but also make it

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00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:41.599
appear that she was still alive and
to do this for going on three years.

273
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.920
They took another close look at Dave
Krupa, but it just didn't fit.

274
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:51.839
Dave had been super cooperative and they
just didn't think that he had anything

275
00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:56.000
to do with this. However,
they did notice that Liz's name seemed to

276
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.319
come up a lot when they looked
back at the text that care Cary had

277
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.160
sent to her supervisor resigning and saying
that she was moving to Kansas for a

278
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:07.599
new job. This was sent three
days after Carrie disappeared. They found it

279
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:12.680
interesting that the text actually mentioned Liz
or Shanna as her real name is the

280
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:17.880
text said, I won't be coming
back. I'm taking a job in Kansas.

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00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.680
Sorry for the short notice. I
am sending someone out to you to

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00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:26.519
fill the position. Her name is
Shanna Gallier. What so Carrie, who

283
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:32.640
is a software developer, she resigns
and recommends a woman who has no background

284
00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:37.359
at all in programming. Yeah,
it was ludicrous. Liz actually did fill

285
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.359
out an application at West Corporation around
that time, and she listed Carrie Farverr

286
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:45.319
as a reference, but she obviously
didn't have any qualifications for the job and

287
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.880
so she wasn't even considered for it. So you may not remember this,

288
00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:56.440
but detectives downloaded the data from both
Liz and Dave's phones way back in early

289
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:00.480
twenty thirteen when all the harassments started, so that they could sift through all

290
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:06.720
of the threatening emails that they were
both getting from Carrie. So now detectives

291
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.920
Avis and Dody started looking more closely
at Liz. They revisited the data that

292
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:15.759
they had downloaded from her phone.
They saw the dynamics of Dave and Liz's

293
00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:21.640
relationship, and they noticed that Liz
seemed very obsessive, very possessive, jealous.

294
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:26.200
They also went back to the photo
of the check that Carrie had supposedly

295
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.799
sent to her mom, saying that
she had sold her furniture to Liz.

296
00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.519
According to Liz, Carrie had stolen
her checkbook, but no one had actually

297
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:38.039
bothered to check the signature on the
check to see if it matched Liz's.

298
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:44.200
Sure enough, it did. Digging
deeper, they saw that Liz had made

299
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:49.319
six calls to Carrie Farver's home phone
about one week before Carrie's disappearance, and

300
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.319
that she had entered Star sixty seven
before each of these calls to block caller

301
00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:59.960
ID. They also found a photo
on Liz's phone of Carrie's forward Explorer.

302
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.440
The photo was taken on Christmas Eve
of twenty twelve, when her car was

303
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:08.559
officially missing, two weeks before it
mysteriously appeared in the parking lot of Dave's

304
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:11.720
apartment. All right, let's take
a quick break. We'll be right back.

305
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.039
So they were now starting to narrow
in on Liz, but everything they

306
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:30.000
had was very circumstantial. The detectives
remembered that there had been an unidentified fingerprint

307
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.759
found on a mint container in Carrie's
car. They compared them to Liz's prince.

308
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.599
I'm not sure how they had Liz's
prince, but they were able to

309
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.559
compare them and sure enough it was
a match. Again, a great piece

310
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.880
of evidence, but very circumstantial.
After all, Dave had probably been in

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00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.839
Carrie's car, maybe he put the
mint container there and Liz had touched it

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00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:56.799
sometime before. The detectives continued gathering
evidence through the rest of twenty fifteen.

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00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.759
In the meantime, Todd got fed
up with Liz and asked her to move

314
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.759
out of his house. She refused, saying she couldn't afford a place on

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00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:11.240
her own. Dave also finally had
enough of Liz. They were supposed to

316
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.720
spend Thanksgiving me I know right.
They were supposed to spend Thanksgiving Day of

317
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:19.880
twenty fifteen together, but Dave got
an urgent call from Amy that morning.

318
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:23.359
So Amy actually had a new baby
who was a year and a half old.

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00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:26.319
I'm not sure who the baby's father
was, but I don't think he

320
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.440
was in the picture. Her baby
was sick and had spiked a fever of

321
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.480
one hundred and three and was having
trouble breathing. There had been a blizzard

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00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.640
and Amy was afraid of driving to
the hospital, so she called Dave to

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00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.400
see if he would drive them.
Even though this wasn't Dave's baby, he

324
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:47.119
was happy to help. Liz was
just beside herself that Dave would cancel their

325
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.759
plans to go help his ex,
and he was disgusted by how selfish she

326
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:56.200
was and told her that it was
over, this time for good. Soon

327
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.720
after that, Dave woke to find
his phone blowing up. Every woman in

328
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.799
his phone's contact list was mad at
him. During the night, they had

329
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:10.000
all received rude, crude texts from
Dave, and they were all texting him

330
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:14.400
to demand an explanation. Now,
Dave was a notoriously heavy sleeper, and

331
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.960
he realized that whoever sent the texts
he still assumed it was Carrie, must

332
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:22.759
have snuck into his bedroom, picked
up his phone from his bedside table,

333
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.880
and sent all those texts from his
apartment while he was sleeping. Oh that's

334
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.279
scary, I know. Shortly after
that, he also noticed that his gun

335
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:36.759
was missing from the closet where he
kept it. By December, detectives Dodie

336
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:41.599
and Ryan were sure that Liz was
responsible for Carrie's disappearance and all of the

337
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.359
harassment that came after it, but
they still had no real evidence that would

338
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.799
hold up at trial. They wanted
to talk to Liz, but they had

339
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.640
to be really careful. They didn't
want to tip her off that they were

340
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:56.680
on to her. So imagine their
surprise when they saw Liz walking down the

341
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.799
hallway at the Sheriff's office on December
fourth of twenty fifteen. They had studied

342
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.000
her for months, but they had
never seen her in person. They later

343
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:08.119
said that it was like spotting a
celebrity. It turned out that Liz had

344
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:15.920
come in to file a harassment report
against Amy Flora Dave's X after Are You

345
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:22.599
Dubious? Yeah? After Detective Avis
found out why Liz was there, he

346
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.119
thought fast and he ran out to
the parking lot before she left, and

347
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.880
he told her that he had been
assigned to her case, and he asked

348
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:33.279
if he could come back to her
house and take the report. She told

349
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:36.640
him that Amy was the ex of
Dave Kroupa, a guy she had been

350
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:40.480
seeing, and that Amy was stalking
her on Facebook, and that she was

351
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:45.599
worried because Dave's gun had been stolen
and she suspected it was Amy. Officer

352
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:48.799
Avis played dumb like he didn't know
anything about Dave Croupa or anything else.

353
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:52.480
I heard a little clip of this
on one of the shows I watched.

354
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.000
It was kind of funny because he's
like, Dave Cooper, how's that spelled?

355
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.680
And she's like, no, it's
Krupa. He was just completely like

356
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:03.160
playing dumb. He asked if he
could get a download of her phone's contents

357
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:06.000
so that he could look over all
the texts that she had claimed to have

358
00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:11.200
come from Amy, and Liz agreed. Avis gave Liz his phone number and

359
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.400
he said, call me anytime if
anything else happens. So, when you

360
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.279
turn in your phone to the police
to have them download your data, there

361
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.920
are two approaches they can take.
The first, which is what they did

362
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.039
the first time they had Liz's phone
nearly three years earlier, is just a

363
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:30.000
simple download of all the files,
the texts, the emails, and so

364
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:33.799
on. The more thorough download,
though, which they did this time,

365
00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:40.759
is basically making a full physical duplication
of everything in the phone's storage and memory.

366
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:45.000
That would allow them to not only
look at Liz's files, her photos,

367
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.920
her emails, and texts, but
it would also allow them to recover

368
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:53.160
data that had been deleted. M
I just think it's so funny that Liz

369
00:26:53.240 --> 00:27:00.160
called the police saying she's stalking on
Facebook, like, oh no, you're

370
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:06.400
being stucked a Facebook. I know
it's it's just silly. It is silly,

371
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:07.680
but I think, you know,
the main thing was that Dave's gun

372
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:11.960
was stolen, so she was worried, like but she was obviously trying to

373
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.960
build up this whole thing like Amy
was out toget her right. So the

374
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.079
next evening, after that conversation with
the police, on December fifth, of

375
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.640
twenty fifteen, Liz told Todd that
she was going to Walmart. Todd was

376
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:27.279
surprised because she never told him where
she was going, and besides, he

377
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:30.799
really didn't care where she went.
He just wanted her out. But instead

378
00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:34.799
of going to Walmart, Liz went
to Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs,

379
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.720
which is a one hundred and ninety
one acre park known for its lakes,

380
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:44.160
and it's also known as being the
site of an alleged UFO crash in nineteen

381
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.119
seventy seven. Liz wasn't there to
search for UFOs, though she later said

382
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:52.799
that she went there to do some
thinking. But instead of a peaceful,

383
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.720
contemplative evening, Liz called nine one
one at six forty one pm, saying,

384
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:02.359
I've been shot in the leg.
The person who shot her Amy Flora.

385
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:07.200
Liz said I know. Liz said
that Amy had come up to her

386
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:10.599
and said, so you like fucking
Dave, and then she shot her and

387
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:15.640
ran away. Paramedics arrived to find
Liz had been shot through the thigh and

388
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.599
her pant leg was soaked with blood. They took her to the hospital while

389
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:23.440
police searched the park. They brought
in a helicopter with a searchlight and an

390
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:27.640
infrared heat detector, but all they
found were a couple of homeless people camped

391
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:33.000
out in the park. Meanwhile,
Amy was sitting on her couch playing games

392
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.599
on her iPad when a pounding came
at her door. Open up police.

393
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:41.279
She opened the door to three officers, guns drawn and pointed at her.

394
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.279
She was terrified and she burst into
tears. They questioned her, and they

395
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.519
believed her story that she had been
sitting on her couch playing games on the

396
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.960
iPad for the last hour or so
while her baby was sleeping. They checked

397
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.279
her car. They found that the
engine was cold, confirming that she hadn't

398
00:28:56.359 --> 00:29:00.240
driven anywhere in it recently. To
be certain, though, they asked her

399
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.839
to come in and take a lie
detector test, which she readily agreed to.

400
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.839
The problem was, though Amy failed
the polygraph test, this isn't actually

401
00:29:08.920 --> 00:29:12.799
too surprising, as the false positive
rate, that is, the percentage of

402
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:18.319
time when an honest person is incorrectly
found to be lying, is somewhere around

403
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.519
twenty percent. Detectives, I would
think it would be higher. I mean,

404
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.000
twenty percent is that's quite a bit, right. It kind of makes

405
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.799
you wonder how I know polygraph tests
aren't admissible in court, and I think

406
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.839
that's the reason why I keep saying
this, But we need we need to

407
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:36.079
break that down and do an episode
on it, because it is really interesting

408
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:41.720
to me that it's used so often
yet so unreliable. Yeah, Detectives Dodie

409
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:45.519
and Avis, they were pretty sure
from early on that Liz had shot herself

410
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.960
in the leg, which is a
dangerous thing to do. I know,

411
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.359
it's a you're for moral artery.
You could bleed out, yeah, exactly.

412
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.799
Liz called Todd from the hospital to
tell her that she had been shot,

413
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:00.799
and she asked him to come visit
her and bring her some things from

414
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:06.680
her basement. While Todd was down
there looking for the things that she had

415
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:10.759
asked for he found his laptop under
her bed, which was oh, stolen.

416
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:14.119
Yeah, it had been stolen,
and as I mentioned before, Todd

417
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.920
kept very meticulous records of all the
serial numbers, and so he was able

418
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:22.200
to check and verify that this was
actually his laptop. I think when he

419
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.200
later kind of confronted Liz about it, she acted like she bought it at

420
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:30.000
a pawn shop and she was like, oh, I guess my bad.

421
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:36.799
Did she give it back? Whoa
crazy? So fortunately for Liz, the

422
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:41.079
bullet passed through her thigh, missed
the bone, it missed any major arteries,

423
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.680
and she was released from the hospital
a couple days later. While all

424
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:49.839
this was happening, detectives were diving
into the contents of Liz's phone. They

425
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:53.720
found that she had been using an
app called Textee, which allows you to

426
00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:59.640
schedule messages to be sent. They
were able to recover all the deleted data,

427
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:03.480
and they found that she had sent
thousands of texts from dozens of email

428
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:08.039
accounts purporting to be carries. They
had so many messages that they had to

429
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:12.680
build a database to allow them to
query and find relevant messages. In all,

430
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:18.519
there were more than twenty thousand emails
and text messages. The evidence was

431
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.559
growing, but it was still all
circumstantial. They had no body, they

432
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:26.119
had where is Carrie, no crime
scene, they had no murder weapon.

433
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:32.079
They needed more, and so they
decided to try to trick Liz into giving

434
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:36.359
them more. They called her in
and they said they were working on building

435
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:40.680
a case against Amy for her shooting. They said, you know this needs

436
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.559
to stay in this room, but
we're also wondering if maybe Amy had something

437
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.000
to do with Carrie's disappearance. I'm
sure Liz was super excited to hear that,

438
00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:52.960
so excited, but they told Liz
they really needed evidence. Though.

439
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:59.960
Miraculously, four days later, some
evidence fell into Liz's lap. She received

440
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:09.319
an email supposedly from Amy with the
subject line, I shot you mean man.

441
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:15.240
Imagine the luck of the police getting
that evidence. The body of the

442
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:20.640
email explained that Amy shot Liz to
keep her away from Dave. It couldn't

443
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:23.319
be much more clear. Liz passed
it along to the police and they said,

444
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:28.039
well, that's great, but I
really wish we could connect Amy to

445
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:31.880
Carrie's disappearance. They told Liz that
they had found some remains that they believed

446
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.759
to be carried, but they didn't
provide any more details than that, So

447
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:38.960
you're not going to believe what happened. Just a couple of days later,

448
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:49.160
I cannot happen Liz got an email
from Amy confessing to killing Carrie. I

449
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:55.200
mean, come on, Liz,
it's amazing that she got away with this

450
00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:01.480
for so long because I don't think
she is actually very bright. It's bananas.

451
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:07.759
So the email that she got from
allegedly from Amy confessing to killing Carrie,

452
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:10.960
it was a long, rambling email, but I'm going to have you

453
00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:15.359
read a couple of parts of it, if that's okay with you. Sure.

454
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:19.759
When I met crazy Carrie, she
would not stop talking about Dave and

455
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.880
him being her husband. She tried
to attack me, but I attacked her

456
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:27.279
with a knife. I stamped her
three to four times in the stomach area.

457
00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:30.440
I then took her out and burned
her. I stuffed her body in

458
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:36.079
a garbage can with crap. She
was carried out to the dumpster, probably

459
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:39.480
when Dave took my garbage out for
me. So be glad I did not

460
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:44.039
do that to you, Liz.
I will never admit to Dave or police,

461
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.519
no one. Maybe I'm drunk now
and just telling lies to you.

462
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:51.480
Dave will always take care of me
and protect me, so I will never

463
00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:54.279
go to jail. When I followed
you that night i shot you, I

464
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:59.640
left my baby home because he was
sleeping, made sure I called Dave and

465
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:02.240
text him for my alibi, so
you can never prove it was me.

466
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:12.079
Brilliants. Amy again in quotes,
also admitted to setting up fake email accounts

467
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.440
that looked like Carrie's, and she
also confessed to setting the fire in Liz's

468
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:21.400
house. Again, it's just so
convenient that Amy offered up all these confessions

469
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.840
to Liz right at the time that
the police were looking into Amy. Right,

470
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:29.880
She's nuts. There are a couple
of clips on the Dateline episode about

471
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.320
this case where the police are talking
to Liz and it's it really is funny

472
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:37.480
because they're like, boy, if
we only had some evidence from Amy saying

473
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:39.599
these things, that would be like
gold to us. And then Liz comes

474
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:45.280
back a couple days later with exactly
what they were asking for. While they

475
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:50.599
knew it wasn't really Amy saying these
things, detectives believed that Liz was actually

476
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:54.880
giving them some true details about Carrie's
murder. They believed that she was stabbed

477
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:59.719
and that her body was probably burned. Liz had a burn barrel in the

478
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:01.679
back yard of the house that she
lived in at the time, but it

479
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:06.760
was long gone, along with any
evidence that might have been there. They

480
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:10.599
believed that Carrie's murder probably happened in
her Ford Explorer. They had searched it

481
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:15.599
twice before, but they didn't do
a thorough search because they didn't have evidence

482
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.239
that a murder had taken place in
the car. By now, the car

483
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.519
had been sold, but they tracked
it down and the owner agreed to let

484
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:24.920
them search it. This time.
They took out the front seats and they

485
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.119
took the seat covers off. The
driver's side seat was clean, but the

486
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.199
passenger seat had a large red stain
on the foam under the seat cover.

487
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.960
It was clear that someone had bled
profusely in the passenger seat. They did

488
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.840
DNA testing on the blood found in
the car and it was a definitive match

489
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:49.800
to Carrie's. While I'm sorry,
was she shot? I think they believe

490
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:53.159
she was stabbed. I mean that
was what Amy allegedly said in the email,

491
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:58.920
that she stabbed her three to four
times. Oh wow. While the

492
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:02.880
investigators had Warren Liz to secrecy about
building a case against Amy. They knew

493
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:07.920
that she would eventually blab about it
to Dave Krupa. She did, and

494
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:13.320
Dave called the investigators up in January
of twenty sixteen. They couldn't come right

495
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:16.119
out and say it, but they
strongly implied that they actually believed that Liz

496
00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:21.480
was behind it all and that Dave
should avoid her like the plague. Dave's

497
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:25.400
had must have exploded because he had
been with Liz for the past three years,

498
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:30.039
and he never once doubted that it
was Carrie who was harassing them both.

499
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.480
I can't believe he was with her
for that long. I know's it

500
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:38.360
really is insane. They also implied
that Amy might be in danger and that

501
00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:44.559
Dave might want to consider moving in
with her for her protection. When Dave

502
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:47.639
told Amy what the police had told
him about Liz, she said what any

503
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:52.480
good spouse or ex spouse would say. What do you think? She said?

504
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:59.039
I told you so yeah. Oh
he had that coming. He did

505
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:01.440
totally, totally. I think I
would wake up every day for the rest

506
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:07.079
of my life to text him,
I told you so yeah. Suggesting that

507
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:09.920
Dave might want to move back in
with Amy was another ploy by the detectives.

508
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:15.920
Knowing that it would enrage Liz,
and it worked. She called Detective

509
00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:20.159
Dody crying, it looks like the
only person that benefited was her. So

510
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:22.119
she gets to shoot somebody, and
then she gets to kill another person,

511
00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:24.920
and then she gets to move in
with Dave and she gets to be free,

512
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:34.760
and you guys aren't arresting her.
I just I can't. I'm insane,

513
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:40.960
completely insane. I just don't under
like. Some people are so crazy

514
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:49.440
and unhinged. I mean, yeah, they believe, they believe the bs

515
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.840
that's coming out of their mouths.
Yeah, it's just to do what she

516
00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:57.639
did for I mean, to kill
somebody, obviously, that's insane, But

517
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:02.719
to then follow that with three years
to do that to carries Mond and her

518
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:09.079
son, I know, it's sick, completely sick. I hope she is

519
00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:14.559
away for a long, long,
long long time. Well we'll find out

520
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:16.800
in a minute. But first of
all, the police after she called them,

521
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.199
they were like, you know,
I know, it just takes time

522
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:22.880
to build a case, and you
know, but Liz had no idea that

523
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:28.320
the case that they were building was
actually targeted at her. On February twenty

524
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:32.280
fifth, twenty sixteen, investigators were
granted a search warrant for Liz's apartment.

525
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.800
She had finally moved out of Todd's
place when he paid for her to rent

526
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.280
a U Haul, and he also
paid for her first month's rent and security

527
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:45.559
deposit for her new place. He
just wanted to get And what about her

528
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:49.239
kids? Are kids with her?
I think so? Yeah? Yeah,

529
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:53.280
those poor kids. Yeah. They
the police waited until she was at work

530
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:58.440
so as not to give her a
chance to delete any of any digital evidence

531
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:00.960
that might exist, And then they
went in and they collected a bunch of

532
00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:06.079
stuff, including a camera and a
camcorder that they were able to confirm had

533
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:10.440
actually belonged to Carrie. They arrested
Liz that afternoon, but not on murder

534
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:15.039
charges. She had an outstanding traffic
citation, so, as police often do,

535
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:19.320
they use that as an excuse to
bring her in and try to get

536
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.079
her to talk. They started telling
her about all the evidence they had,

537
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:27.400
but she denied it all and soon
asked for an attorney, who took care

538
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:31.119
of the traffic citation and got her
released. It would be another ten months

539
00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:36.679
before they arrested Liz for the murder
of Carrie Farvar, four years after her

540
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:42.000
disappearance. Investigators had brought the case
to the DA, who was skeptical of

541
00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:45.960
their ability to successfully prosecute Liz without
a body or a murder weapon. They

542
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:51.079
didn't even know where Liz had killed
Carrie, which would be a challenge because

543
00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:54.280
if they prosecuted her in Douglas County, which is where Omaha was located,

544
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:59.440
but the jury wasn't convinced that that's
where the crime took place, then they

545
00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:04.960
would have to quitter. But finally
the prosecutor became convinced that Liz was guilty

546
00:40:05.000 --> 00:40:07.079
and that they had as much evidence
as they were going to get, and

547
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.679
so they agreed to move forward,
and Liz was finally arrested for Liz's or

548
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:16.760
for Carrie's murder, on December twenty
second, twenty sixteen, over four long

549
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:22.599
years after Carrie's disappearance. A big
break came. While they were preparing the

550
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:28.599
case, they asked Dave Krupa whether
there was any electronic devices that they might

551
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:32.639
have missed. Dave suddenly remembered that
there was a tablet of Liz's in storage

552
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:37.039
that he had completely forgotten about,
so he went there and got it for

553
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.440
them. The tablet had an SD
card in it, that must have been

554
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:45.519
in Liz's phone at some point,
because on it they found a whole bunch

555
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:51.119
of photos. One photo they found
showed a foot with a tattoo on it.

556
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:55.159
They were able to get a photo
from Carrie's mom. You're laughing because

557
00:40:55.159 --> 00:41:00.159
of the well we end with that. I'm sorry not laughing at no.

558
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:04.719
I know it's actually a pretty funny
story. But let me finish this and

559
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:07.280
then we'll talk about that. Yeah, So they found it photo of a

560
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.000
foot with a tattoo on it.
They were able to get a photo from

561
00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:15.039
Carrie's mom that showed the tattoo was
a match for a tattoo that Carrie had

562
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:20.519
on her foot, and when they
shared the photo with a forensic pathologist,

563
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:23.599
she concluded that the foot shown in
the photo was in a state of decay.

564
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.800
That's because when a body starts to
decay, the skin begins to slough

565
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:34.280
off and become discolored, but the
skin where the tattoo is does not sluff

566
00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:37.559
off in the same way, and
so the pathologists could tell because of the

567
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:45.119
difference in the skin near the tattoo
compared to the surrounding skin that the foot

568
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.239
was in a state of decay.
But she was unable to estimate how long

569
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:52.599
the person had been dead when the
photo was taken. The trial began in

570
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:58.280
May of twenty seventeen. Liz's lawyer
opted for a bench trial instead of a

571
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:04.199
jury trial because he knew that all
of the circumstantial evidence, that thousands of

572
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:07.199
texts and emails, all of the
harassment, all the stocking, and so

573
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:12.400
on, would make the jury believe
that Liz was a psycho, even if

574
00:42:12.440 --> 00:42:17.239
that evidence didn't directly connect her to
Carrie's murder. Liz's defense was basically that

575
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:22.559
all of the evidence was just supposition
and innuendo. Sure, Liz was a

576
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:27.760
bad person for intimidating and harassing innocent
people, but that didn't make her a

577
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:30.400
murderer. Was there even a murder? Where was the body? How did

578
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:35.840
Carrie die? Where did she die? The prosecution didn't have direct evidence that

579
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:39.920
spoke to any of those things.
The state called thirty two witnesses to make

580
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:45.920
their case. Liz's attorney didn't call
any witnesses in her defense. In the

581
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:49.440
end, though, it was enough
to convince the judge. He delivered his

582
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:53.920
verdict on May twenty fourth, guilty
of first degree murder and second degree arson.

583
00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:00.199
Soon after she was convicted, Liz
called her lawyer and said, I

584
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:05.920
want to take the plea deal.
First of all, no plea deal had

585
00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:08.760
actually been offered. There had been
some discussion of a plea deal if Liz

586
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:14.199
would lead them to carry his remains, but nothing was formally offered. Second

587
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:16.199
of all, the time for a
plea agreement, as I think you probably

588
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:22.360
know, is before you're convicted of
murder, not after. Apparently Liz was

589
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:27.239
not well versed on the law.
Liz was sentenced to life in prison for

590
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:30.840
the murder and eighteen to twenty years
for the arson, which the two sentences

591
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:36.480
were set to run consecutively. So
even if Liz somehow managed to get the

592
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.639
life sentence reversed on appeal, she
would still have the eighteen to twenty years

593
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:45.840
for arson. That sounds about right, I'd say, so, all right,

594
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.239
we're almost done. I just have
a few notes about what's happened since

595
00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:53.599
Liz got convicted. Liz did file
an appeal, saying that her counsel had

596
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:58.440
failed her by advising her to waive
a jury trial, among other things.

597
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:06.000
It was denied. She still maintains
her innocence. Carrie's son Maxwell Farvar finished

598
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:10.360
high school and followed in his mom's
footsteps by studying software engineering and data science

599
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:15.480
at Iowa State University. He's now
working as a software engineer at a financial

600
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:22.800
services firm in Minnesota. Nancy and
Mark Rainey, Carrie's mom and stepdad,

601
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:28.079
have remained close with the detectives who
finally broke the case open. Nancy says

602
00:44:28.119 --> 00:44:31.599
that they are like sons to her. Detectives Dodie and Avis, along with

603
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:37.119
Deputy Anthony Cava, who I didn't
mention, but he worked for the Pottawatame

604
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:40.440
County IT Department and he did a
ton of work on his own time to

605
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:45.519
sift through all the digital evidence.
The three of them established a scholarship fund

606
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:52.599
in Carrie's name. The Carrie Farvar
Memorial Scholarship supports Iowa Western Community College students

607
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:58.320
who are pursuing careers in information technology. Very nice, Dave and Amy continue

608
00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:01.280
to cooperate in raising the kids together, although they have no plans to get

609
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:07.320
back together. Dave feels tremendous guilt
over what happened to Carrie, although Nancy

610
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.199
doesn't blame him, She says,
quote he was pretty much in the wrong

611
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:15.480
place at the wrong time like Carrie
was, and she also says that Carrie

612
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:19.559
wouldn't want his feelings of guilt to
hold him back in life. For his

613
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:23.000
part, Dave committed that he would
cooperate with any TV show that wanted to

614
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:27.880
cover Carrie's murder as long as Nancy
had agreed to participate as well, to

615
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:32.239
keep her memory alive. Carrie's remains
have never been found wherever she is.

616
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:36.960
I hope you rest in peace,
Carrie. That's devastating, it's yeah,

617
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.559
it's really incredibly sad. Yeah,
we'll rest in peace, Carrie. And

618
00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.440
I hope her son is doing well. And I hope that Liz's kids are

619
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.199
okay, you know her parents first, right, Yeah, And I just

620
00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:52.639
can't help but always worry about the
kids in these stories. Yeah, for

621
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:55.559
sure. I mean there's definitely some
silly things in the story that made us

622
00:45:55.599 --> 00:46:00.920
laugh. But it's really tragic that
Carrie seemed like a really lovely person.

623
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:05.320
Yeah, And I mean, Dave, I'm sorry he made some really bad

624
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:08.280
decisions. So I hope he's doing
well too. Yeah, I hope so

625
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:12.239
too. Yeah, I agree with
you about Liz's kids. I don't I

626
00:46:12.280 --> 00:46:15.760
don't know anything about them or where
they're at now or what happened to them

627
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.360
or anything like that. But yeah, I can only imagine like they're it's

628
00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:22.920
hard to grow up with, you
know, an unreliable and we talk a

629
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:29.199
lot about bad people, but I
think Liz bad person, but mentally ill.

630
00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:32.360
Yeah, like those her responses just
weren't normal, right. It doesn't

631
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.719
excuse anything that she did, but
I think she was obviously ill. But

632
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:40.760
she was obviously ill, so I
should give a mention of the main source

633
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:45.519
for this case was a book called
A Tangled Web, which is by Leslie

634
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:49.719
Rule. The name may sound familiar
because Anne Rule, who is like the

635
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.440
Queen of true crime. Leslie is
her daughter, and this is the first

636
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:55.480
book and I think, to date
the only book that she's really I thought

637
00:46:55.519 --> 00:46:59.599
she's written more. It's the only
one that is listed on her website.

638
00:46:59.599 --> 00:47:02.159
Maybe yeah, so hopefully she'll write
more because it was really well done,

639
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:07.440
well researched, well written, and
everything. Well you did it a fabulous

640
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:09.199
job retelling the story, so good
job to you. Thank you. I

641
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:13.639
have not read an Ann Rule book. I started one once and then I

642
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:16.480
think I had to put it aside. But I really do want to read

643
00:47:16.519 --> 00:47:19.800
one. Of her books, because
I know she is the Queen of true

644
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:23.079
crime. Yeah, Ted Bundy book
is supposed to be right. I think

645
00:47:23.079 --> 00:47:25.280
she knew I didn't read that,
but I think she knew him. I

646
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:29.280
knew him. Yeah. So I
want to go back to something that you

647
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:31.920
you laughed at earlier. It was
inappropriate laughter. I'm sorry, yeah it

648
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:36.000
was, but it was the reason
for your laughter was it was actually really

649
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:38.760
funny yesterday. So you laughed when
I was talking about they found the photo

650
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:44.800
of the foot tattoo, and you
and I and our daughter were texting each

651
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:46.840
other, and at the same time, I was looking for photos for this

652
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:51.760
case to download, and I found
a photo of the foot tattoo that will

653
00:47:51.800 --> 00:47:54.800
post and I downloaded it and I
went to name the file, but I

654
00:47:54.840 --> 00:48:00.360
accidentally typed in our text exchange,
and what did I think? I just

655
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:05.320
type foot tattoo. I think we
were talking about dinner or something, and

656
00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:12.639
I just messaged tattoo and I was
like, you have some explaining to do,

657
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:16.639
sir, Like what is going on? Why are you googling foot tattoos?

658
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:21.920
Which is highly disturbing to It made
me laugh so hard. After I

659
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:24.760
did that, I just sent a
message to or did you just develop this

660
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:30.679
case just because the story is all
just because you had to cover your foot

661
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:40.239
tattoo googling shady shady. So Thanksgiving
is upon us. What are you grateful

662
00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:44.719
for? I am grateful for so
many. That wasn't a leading question.

663
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:50.639
I mean, I'm grateful for a
lot. I'm grateful for you, grateful

664
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:53.199
for our family, I'm grateful for
our listeners, our podcast. I mean,

665
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:57.239
yeah, we have we have a
lot of we have a lot to

666
00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:00.400
be grateful for. We do,
we do. Grateful for everybody listening right

667
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:05.079
now. I think a lot of
people probably fell asleep and dropped off.

668
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:12.199
I hope you, our listeners,
have a great holiday, and like rich

669
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.559
said, we are very grateful for
you. What do you want Santa to

670
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:20.840
bring you? I don't know.
I don't there's nothing, nothing I need

671
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:25.639
more five star reviews. Oh that
would be nice if Santa did that.

672
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:29.760
Can you imagine getting a review from
Santa? That would be pretty cool.

673
00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:32.119
That would be pretty cool. All
right, what do you want Santa to

674
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:37.199
bring you? My cup is full, my cup run is over. I'm

675
00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:39.639
good. Yeah, I feel too. Yeah. I think the older we

676
00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:47.239
get we just charitable contributions really are
nice. Yeah, and we are so

677
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:51.159
grateful to be able to. We've
been doing that with our podcast a little

678
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.880
bit and it's really it feels really
good to give back a little. Okay,

679
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:59.000
And if you're listening on Monday or
Tuesday, you have a little bit

680
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:02.559
of time to purchase still Love Mary
Kill t shirt or sweatshirt or hoodie.

681
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:07.000
If you can rate, review or
follow us, we would greatly appreciate it.

682
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:14.760
Oh, hey, make chocolate a
clear cake everyone, that's that's our

683
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:17.880
Thanksgiving recipe. It's a tradition.
It's really special and important because your mom

684
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:21.880
used to make it and she is
no longer with us. It's a great

685
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:24.480
recipe, really simple, it's super
simple. Everyone loves it. The only

686
00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:30.039
you have to make it at least
like probably twelve hours before you eat it

687
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:36.199
because the have to soak up some
of the pudding. Yeah, I'll repost

688
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:39.679
that recipe. Yeah, it's really
good. Definitely recommend it right until next

689
00:50:39.679 --> 00:50:45.360
time. Happy Thanksgiving, Happy Thanksgiving. And don't kill your wife. Don't

690
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:50.639
get to write down the serial numbers
for all your electros. Yes, good

691
00:50:50.760 --> 00:51:34.000
practice. Don't kill your husband.
To back the