Nov. 17, 2025

Crystal and David Brame - Part 1

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Crystal and David Brame had been married for eleven years when the tension in their home reached a breaking point. As David’s career in law enforcement advanced, Crystal found it harder to seek help and even harder to escape his control. In February 2003, she filed for divorce and moved out of their home, determined to start over. But in the weeks that followed, emotions ran high—and what happened next would leave an entire community reeling.

Today's snack: JoJo's Cookies

Listen to part 2 on Patreon

Sources:

  1. LaRosa, Paul. Tacoma Confidential: A True Story of Murder, Suicide, and a Police Chief's Secret Life. (2006). Berkeley. Kindle edition.
  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXDVsIB2cOA&t=168s Crystal Judson Family Justice Center
  3. https://www.playpartyplan.com/thanksgiving-would-you-rather/
  4. https://podcasts.apple.com/se/podcast/the-thin-blue-line-the-brame-family/id1566754620?i=1000659706939
  5. https://www.amazon.com/Tacoma-Confidential-Murder-Suicide-Police-ebook/dp/B002DMZ9UE
  6. https://www.atg.wa.gov/news/news-releases/brame-investigation-results-announced
  7. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-hathaway-self-appointed-gadfly-of-tacoma-dead-at-69/
  8. https://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/tacoma-police-chief-s-wife-says-he-pointed-a-gun-1113191.php
  9. https://www.newspapers.com/image/741624406/?match=1&terms=%22david%20brame%22
  10. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2573025/
  11. https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/20030509/dv09m0/the-brame-case-when-a-wifes-abuser-is-a-cop-who-can-help
WEBVTT

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Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing

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we've learned and over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your.

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Wife and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, how

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are you. I'm doing fabulous. How are you?

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You're looking quite handsome today.

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Well, I did just get a haircut just for I

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knew we were recording today, so I wanted to make

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sure I learned my best.

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So I got some new makeup in the mail, and

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I was like playing with the new makeup that I got,

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so I probably look a little like a cloud cut

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some new blush. I'm like, oh, this is really pink.

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Oh no, you look great.

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Well, thank you. So for everyone, but especially women, it's

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like go time. It's the season that we're all thinking about,

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you know, Thanksgiving, what we're cooking for Thanksgiving, what we're

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buying for Christmas, how we're going to decorate.

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I've noticed a change in you over the last two

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to three weeks, and I can tell yeah, it is

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definitely go time for you.

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Well to like today, I'm starting to feel a little

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bit of stress, but I'm trying to prepare ahead. So

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we are having some guests for Thanksgiving, which we're super

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excited about, our sons coming home, our daughter's coming home.

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It's interesting because you know, we're more or less empty

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nesters now. There's less people to do the work. Truly,

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there's less people to be like, hey, can you do

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this real quick or no. It's really all on me

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and you to a lesser extent. So I'm trying to

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like focus on I'm just going to clean one room,

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you know, because there's a lot of rooms in our

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house that are use like the guest bedroom. Like I'm

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going to clean all the wash, all the bedding and

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you know, get that ready, and you know, get that

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room completely clean. But that's where Cosmo sleeves too, so

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and he doesn't help at all either, Right a couple

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I actually made our Thanksgiving gravy already.

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Yeah it was really good.

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I think it was pretty good, and I made I

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haven't really talked about this, but a lot of times

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when we make meat, I souv the meat and that's

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when you cook it in a warm water bath. And

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for me, I'm not a great like meat cook, but

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it's it always turns out well right.

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Yeah, it does, so I already keep itisture.

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Yeah. So I cooked a turkey breast in the subet.

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I think I'm going to make another one your practice. No, well,

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we ate some of it, but I froze the rest

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of it, so don't worry. It's not in the refrigerators

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in the freither. I think it'll be fine if I

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just warm it up in the subet again. So just

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trying to think at all.

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Yeah, I think you need like a project manager for

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but it's also.

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Almost your birthday. Yeah, and well, we've talked about this

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a lot. People probably know. Rich's cake of choice is

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cherry chip cake. For some reason, you're going to make

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me angry. I don't even know what's happening. But you

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cannot find a cherry chip makes. If you live in

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the United States and you see one, let me know,

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send it to us. I would be happy to pay

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you exorbitantly for it.

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So, just a couple of days ago, I was thinking

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about this and I went to the Betty Crocker website.

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Oh yeah, and it's there. I've tried that.

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No, I know, I know, but people comment at every

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comment is why can't I find this anywhere? And the

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Betty Crocker people reply. They replied like, oh, we're sorry,

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you can't find it. You should talk to your store person.

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We're still making it and they're acting like that making it.

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In Canada and we're, you know what, forty five minutes

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to the Canadian border, so maybe we'll make a run

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for the border. But our very sweet listener, Teresa, who

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is a great baker, may have sent me a recipe

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for a cherry chipping but still I have to dehydrate

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the cherries and that's kind of yeah, it's real.

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It is gonna be the same as the box mix.

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I mean, remember what well I last year, I kind

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of I had one bot. I just kind of did

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it that way and that was pretty good. It was good. Yeah,

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it was really good. So anyway, if you see a

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cherry chip cake mix, let me know remember what happened

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this summer though. That was a major faux pod in

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our part.

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We found one in a grocery store.

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Where were we Where were in Wisconsin?

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We were in Indiana, way to Chicago. Yes, it was

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on our road trip and they had it. I was

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like we should pick some up, and we decided not to.

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Our car was literally so packed we didn't have room.

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Two boxes of cake.

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Mix speaking a mistake.

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Of cake that was in a very good transition. I

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have a snack for you today. Oh okay, but it's

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not cake, okay. Another listener named Taylor, who is a

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Michigan native, reached out to me recently and suggested that

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we try JoJo's Bakery in Traverse City. I believe her

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parents lived there, and I've never heard of JoJo's Bakery before.

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So I hopped on the internet and I found their

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website and I ordered a dozen cookies. Not that we

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need a dozen cookies, but I couldn't decide which ones

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to get.

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That's exciting.

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I know I already ate the o'meal raisin. I bet

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you're okay with that.

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I am okay with that.

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Taylor said, the best cookie is the lemon glazed molasses,

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and that's I'm guessing the one that you're going to

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want to try, and we'll let you choose one out

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of the box. I thought it was a really good price,

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though it was, like, I don't know, fifty dollars to

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get a dozen cookies, which is super cheap if you

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ever order bake goods online. Sent some to our son too,

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So I will hand you this box and you can

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choose which one you We should definitely try the lemon

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molasses one.

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All right, it sounds good.

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What did you think of JoJo's cookie?

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Oh man, that was so good? Such a great flavor,

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like yeah, really lemon out of flavor, the good combination

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the lemon and the molasses.

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So a great box, like a great gift box. I

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think all the cookies arrived in really good shape, so

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I think this would be a great gift for Christmas.

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I really want to try them all.

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And they came pretty quickly too. They have two stores,

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one in Potaski and one in Traverse City, and it's

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Jojo'scookie Company dot com. We'll put a link in our

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show notes.

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So thank you.

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Would you say ten out of ten out a ton easy?

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Which one do you want to try next?

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They all look so good, but the one I think

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it's called them stacker. It's like a sandwich cookie that

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looks amazing.

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That's mine, So pick again.

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You got to pick the raisin oatmeal one.

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So I get to maig that one. Tore that right

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out of your head?

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Is mine?

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Yeah, I think few people understand my love for the

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raisin cookies, but I really do love them. We love

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to support Michigan businesses. Today's case does not occur in Michigan.

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We are going to Washington State. I'm going to tell

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you the story of Crystal and David Brame, and it's

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a heartbreaking case. Thank you to Nachelle for recommending this case.

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She's from the area and remembers how deeply the community

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was affected by this tragedy. Michelle, We're so sorry for

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your recent loss. We're thinking of you and sending you love.

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All quotes, unless otherwise noted, come from the book Tacoma

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Confidential by Paul LaRosa. We'll talk more about that when

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we get to the end of part two, but excellent book.

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On the night of February fifteenth, two thousand and three,

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Crystal and David Brame we're having yet another explosive argument,

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the kind that had become all too familiar during their

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eleven year marriage. Their two children, Haley Aid and David Junior, five,

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sat unfazed in the living room watching TV while their

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parents fought. The family of four lived in a comfortable

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home on Eagle Creek Lane and Gig Harbor, about ten

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miles from Tacoma, Washington, where David forty four served as

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the city's chief of police. To the outside world, David

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Brain was handsome, charismatic, and confident, good at his job,

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and admired by his community. But behind that polished exterior,

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he was demanding, controlling, narcissistic, and deeply cruel. Crystal, just

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five feet tall and one hundred five pounds, had learned

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to live carefully under his rule. Each morning, he forced

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her to step on a scale to be weighed under

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his watchful eye. Oh man, isn't it horrible?

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Terrible?

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She'd carefully maintained the same weight since meeting David, even

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after two pregnancies, but her husband hurled insults at her,

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making Crystal feel as if she wasn't good enough for him.

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That night, though, she was taking a stick and refusing

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to attend a work dinner with David. When she again

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refused to get dressed, David bram At over six feet

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tall and two hundred pounds, towered over his petite wife,

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intimidating her as she cowered in the corner, wrapping herself

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into a defensive fetal position, ready for the blows that

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she was sure were to come. She was determined to

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stand her ground for once. The dinner was at Anthony's,

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a popular seafood restaurant in Tacoma, honoring two of Bram's

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newly appointed deputies. For Cristel hadn't felt well all day,

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and she told her husband she didn't want to go.

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Which should have been a simple disagreement, ignited into yet

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another fiery battle, a pattern that was becoming increasingly dangerous.

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David retreated slightly and called Crystal to their closet, asking

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for her help to find his favorite blue turtleneck. Relieved

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that she seemed to have won the battle to stay home,

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she went to the closet and hovered near the open door,

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hesitant to enter. David had locked her in side recently

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for hours. When she looked up, David was pointing his

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Service Revolver at her. It wasn't the first time he'd

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pointed a gun at her. It's not loaded, you idiot,

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he said, trying to hand his weapon to her. Take it.

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He demanded, you need to know how to protect yourself.

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Cristel refused. She'd seen enough Law and Order episodes to

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know better than to put her fingerprints on the weapon.

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Do you think I'm stupid, she asked, I know you're stupid,

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he retorted, David grabbed Cristel by the waist and pulled

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her body close to his, jamming the glock under her chin.

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Accidents happen, he said, menacingly. David released his hold on

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Cristal and she collapsed to the floor. He stormed out

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of the house, slamming the door loudly in his wake.

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Cristel remained crumpled on the closet floor, sobbing, and reminded

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herself that the devor's papers would be delivered in just

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a few days. She and the children were almost free

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from David's tyranny. The nightmare would soon be over, or

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would it.

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Well, he sounds like a horrible, horrible human being.

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Not a good guy. Tkacoma, Washington State's third largest city,

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has a population of about two hundred thirty thousand. Sitting

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on the shores of Puget Sound, twenty seven miles south

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of Seattle. Tacoma has had its share of bad luck

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for over one hundred years. Seattle has beaten Tacoma at

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every turn. Even Mount Rainier was supposed to be called

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Mount Tacoma until Seattle intervened, and then There's Galloping Gurdy,

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the suspension bridge that earned its nickname because it swayed

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and undulated violently even in light winds. The bridge famously

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collapsed into the Puget Sound on November seventh, nineteen forty

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particularly windy day. Thankfully, no one was killed and the

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bridge's collapse. The disaster became a churning point in engineering history,

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transforming the way long span suspension bridges were designed and

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ultimately making them far safer.

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That was caught on camera. It wasn't it. It was filmed,

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I think at the time. And I remember this distinctly

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from school, probably like a physics class. But the bridge

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was just going crazy. People are like running off of it,

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and cars were tilting left and right and really a

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wild correct.

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There is video of it, and again no one died,

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but one dog did perish in the collapse. But I

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have a real fear of going over bridges and I

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hate driving over them. But yeah, I mean the bridges to.

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Fail sometimes they do. Yeah.

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Known as the City of Destiny after being chosen as

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the western terminus of the Northern Pacific Railroad in the

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late eighteen hundreds, Tacoma has always had grit and character.

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Once a booming industrial and shipping town, by the early

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two thousands it was in the midst of a transformation,

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vitalizing its waterfront, opening the Museum of Glass, and nurturing

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a growing arts scene. It's a city with working classroots

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and civic pride, where community ties run deep. Tacoma is

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also known for some darker associations, with a crime rate

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considerably higher than the national average. Your chance of being

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a victim of violent crime is one in eighty one,

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property crime one in fourteen. Tacoma is the birthplace of

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serial killer Ted Bundy, in the sight of several high

250
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profile criminal cases, including Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer.

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The Tacoma Police Department is actively investigating one hundred forty

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seven cold case homicides and twenty unsolved missing persons cases

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dating back as far as nineteen thirty six. However, in

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recent years there has been an effort by law enforcement

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and crime rates have been slashed by seventeen percent. To

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those who live there, it's a place of rugged beauty

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and endurance, framed by Mount Rainier and bound by the

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waters of the Puget Sound. As early as anyone could remember,

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David Alan Bram had wanted to be a police officer

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like his father. Born in nineteen fifty eight to Beverly

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and Eugene, David grew up in East Tacoma, the grittier

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side of town. The youngest of four children. He had

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two brothers, Jean and Dan, and a sister, Jane. All

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three boys followed in their father's footsteps and became law

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enforcement officers. David was a good kid, the apple of

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his parents' eyes, quiet and serious, spending his spare time

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memorizing Bible verses. He was a good student and an

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exceptional athlete, leading his high school's basketball team to a

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state championship. His siblings claimed that he was his parent's

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favorite child. David attended community college before moving on to

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the University of Puget Sound, graduating with a degree in

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criminal justice. He joined the Tacoma Police Department in nineteen

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eighty one. He married for the first time, to a

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woman who's chosen to remain anonymous. She has never spoken

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publicly about their marriage, but David claimed she was unfaithful.

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He allegedly caught her in bed with another police officer.

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They divorced after eight years of marriage. David was tall

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00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:46.399
and handsome but awkward with women. The divorce and alleged

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infidelity had rocked his confidence. He pined to be married

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again and start a family, but he was having a

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hard time meeting women.

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Crystal Diet Judson was born to Paddy and Lane in Tacoma, Washington,

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on April time, twenty fourth, nineteen sixty eight. She has

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a younger sister by two years, Julie Lane. Judson was

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a proud member of the US Navy before starting his

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00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:12.679
career at Boeing as an engineering supervisor. His first tour

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of duty was from nineteen fifty two to nineteen fifty seven,

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but he later re enlisted in the Naval Reserve, serving

289
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.159
additional tours in nineteen sixty five, nineteen eighty two, and

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nineteen ninety five.

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00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:25.480
That's pretty impressive.

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00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.960
That is very cool. Patty was a homemaker. Together, they

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00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.879
ran a meticulously tight ship. To see what you did there.

294
00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:33.480
They did write that on purpose.

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Their house was always spotless, and their daughters brought that

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00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.799
lesson into their homes later in life. They were a

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00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:43.840
close knit family. Crystal, like David, was the favored child

298
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in her family. She was smart, pretty loquacious, and athletic.

299
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She was both a ballerina and an ice skater, once

300
00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:56.559
competing against and beating infamous Olympic figure skater Tanya Harding Wow.

301
00:14:57.679 --> 00:15:00.320
Later in high school, Kristal was a cheerleader and a

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daffodil princess. She also taught herself sign language and spoke

303
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fluent French.

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00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:07.639
You're not going to ask me what a daffodil princesses?

305
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:09.240
I can only imagine.

306
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.519
I think it was a local festival and there was

307
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a court of you know, young women chosen to be

308
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daffodil princesses.

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That's pretty cool. She seems very impressive.

310
00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:20.559
Yeah.

311
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:24.759
Crystal attended University of Washington and majored in criminal justice.

312
00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.200
When it was time for Julie to go to college,

313
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:31.440
she and Cristel became roommates. Crystal, a recent college graduate,

314
00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:34.879
met twenty nine year old divorcee David Brahem while working

315
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.879
part time for the Tacoma Police Department posing as a

316
00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:41.799
sex worker in a prostitution sting. After the arrest was made,

317
00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:44.720
Crystal asked David for a ride home. She made it

318
00:15:44.720 --> 00:15:48.000
clear that she was interested, attracted to his alpha male

319
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:51.039
status and confidence. He asked her out, and the two

320
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:55.200
began dating. David was focused on his career, while Crystel

321
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:58.120
enjoyed going out and spending time with friends, but he

322
00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:01.519
often pressured her to stay home and dead. The control

323
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.679
began subtly when Cristel started looking for jobs. David insisted

324
00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.759
she worked only with women, making it clear he didn't

325
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.600
want other men taking an interest or flirting with her.

326
00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:13.000
What do you think about that?

327
00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:16.960
That's a really bad sign. Early on, Julie, Crystal's sister,

328
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:19.480
didn't like David from the start, but she kept her

329
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.320
opinions to herself. I thought she had to live her

330
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.840
own life, she said. It just seemed that he was

331
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.799
making all the decisions for her instead of her making

332
00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:31.679
her own decisions. Julie thought that Cristel's outgoing nature was

333
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.279
too vibrant for David's quiet reserve. She lit up a

334
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.600
room while he preferred to fade into the background.

335
00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.799
Which probably made him a good police officer, right, He

336
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.559
was good at observing and you know, wasn't worried about

337
00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:47.879
talking a lot, right, but didn't make him a great partner.

338
00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.679
Yeah. After two years of dating, David proposed, and Crystal

339
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.360
happily accepted. She told her mother, Patty, he makes me

340
00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:59.440
feel safe. Years later, this statement would haunt Patty. She

341
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.200
never liked to David and once told him, You'd be

342
00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:05.480
nothing without your gun and uniform. He liked to refer

343
00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:07.799
to his mother in law as the Barnacle.

344
00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:09.799
I think that's kind of a good name for a

345
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:10.359
mother in law.

346
00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.240
Really, yeah, kind of. They married in front of one

347
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:15.960
hundred and seventy five friends and family on August third,

348
00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.960
nineteen ninety one. Crystal moved into David's house after the wedding,

349
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the same house where he had lived with his first wife.

350
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.759
Crystal worked for the Circuit Court until she became a

351
00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:28.200
stay at home mom when their first child, Haley, was

352
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born on Christmas Eve, nineteen ninety four. David Junior followed

353
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:36.200
in November nineteen ninety seven. After Haley was born, they

354
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moved into a modest home in gig Harbor, a picturesque

355
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city on the Puget Sound connected to Tacoma by the

356
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Tacoma and Narrows Bridge.

357
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Which replaced Gallopinger, Okay.

358
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After the move, David's financial control of Crystal began. He

359
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:53.880
kept a firm grasp on their money, often not even

360
00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:57.559
giving Crystal money for gas for her car. Lane Cristel's

361
00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:01.200
father recalled David, saying, it says David brain on that check.

362
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:03.759
It doesn't say Crystal. If you don't like it, do

363
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.920
something about it. He gave Crystal one hundred dollars every

364
00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.400
two weeks for groceries and household spending. She didn't have

365
00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.799
access to their bank accounts or credit cards. He even

366
00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:17.279
checked the mileage on her car and demanded receipts matching

367
00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:20.759
timestamps with where she said she was. He went as

368
00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.440
far as limiting her visits with her family. For extra money.

369
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.400
Crystal began to sell her and the children's clothing to

370
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.759
a resale shop, but when David found out, he demanded

371
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:32.000
half of the proceeds.

372
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:35.799
So David was making enough money to support the family.

373
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.039
He was just very frugal. He was obsessed with saving money.

374
00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:41.680
I don't know if he wanted to retire early, but

375
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:44.519
he wanted to save at least five thousand dollars a month.

376
00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:45.799
I'm not sure if what was it this time or

377
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.519
a little bit later, but still that's five thousand dollars

378
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:51.319
a month. That's a lot of money to save at Definitely,

379
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:54.240
you know they could have been living a lot better. Yeah,

380
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:55.680
it was more about control.

381
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.160
Well, that's what I was going to say. Even if

382
00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.519
he was frugal, it seems like it was yeah, much

383
00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:03.039
more about control. One area of David's life that was

384
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.640
going well was his career. He had received several promotions

385
00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:09.480
and pay raises over the years, which brings to question

386
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.759
why he was so frugal with his wife. In nineteen

387
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.519
ninety nine, David was promoted to assistant chief of police.

388
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.079
So I get the impression that he was promoted so quickly,

389
00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:23.440
not because he was the best police officer, but he

390
00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:25.839
was good at department politics well.

391
00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:29.319
As is often the case, I think he worked long hours,

392
00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:32.200
leaving Crystal to handle most of the parenting on her own.

393
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.720
She was grateful that her parents, her sister Julie, and

394
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:39.000
brother in law Dave, lived nearby. They spent a lot

395
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.960
of time together, but whenever David joined them, he kept

396
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.759
to himself, speaking little and often withdrawing from the group.

397
00:19:46.279 --> 00:19:49.319
Julie remembered one visit not long after the Brains had

398
00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:52.359
bought their new house. She found David lying alone on

399
00:19:52.400 --> 00:19:55.759
the floor of an unfurnished room, isolated from the rest

400
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.519
of the family's laughter and conversation, and maybe saddest of

401
00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:03.680
all was that Crystal, formerly extroverted and social with lots

402
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:06.960
of friends, was a shell of her former self. She

403
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.960
no longer saw friends and didn't have a social outlet

404
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:13.559
due to David's strict control. Her family made it clear

405
00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:15.559
to her that they did not expect her to stay

406
00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:18.920
in an unhappy marriage, but Crystal wanted to make it work.

407
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:22.319
She was isolated, Julie said, Mom and I tried to

408
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.599
get her to go shopping or meet for lunch, but

409
00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:27.559
something always came up with David. He wouldn't let her

410
00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.319
go anywhere, and when she did come along, she had

411
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:34.279
no money. Another unsettling detail in the Brains marriage was

412
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:38.720
that David insisted on accompanying Crystal to her annual gynecological

413
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.799
exams and even sat in the room while they were performed.

414
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:44.920
That's a little creepy, right, It's super creepy.

415
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:46.799
We'll be back after a break.

416
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.359
There are some people who don't believe David was abuse

417
00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.720
of her controlling. They claim that Crystal struggle with mental

418
00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:06.119
health issues, possibly obsessive compulsive disorder, which intensified after the

419
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:09.359
birth of their daughter, Hayley, leading to what they describe

420
00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:13.759
as erratic or unpredictable behavior, but those voices came mostly

421
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:17.880
from David's family. His sister Jane defended her brother, saying

422
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:21.160
during their marriage, David felt like he never knew what

423
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:23.400
was what he was going to come home to. He

424
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:26.480
used to say, I feel like I'm raising three kids.

425
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.319
She recalled one evening when she was on the phone

426
00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:32.960
with him and Cristel arrived home. David abruptly ended the call,

427
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.920
telling his sister that Cristel didn't like him talking to

428
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.079
the family. She'll feel the phone to see if it's warm,

429
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:43.200
he said. According to Jane, David claimed that Cristel often

430
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:46.960
had emotional outbursts and could be verbally and even physically

431
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.799
explosive towards him and the children. Friends of David described

432
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:54.000
the Brame household as chaotic, saying the children seem to

433
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:58.160
lack structure and discipline. They echoed David's claims that Cristel

434
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:03.400
struggled to maintain control, portraying her as overwhelmed and emotionally unstable.

435
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.000
Several people said when they were on the phone with

436
00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:09.039
Crystal that she would tend to yell at her kids,

437
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.799
But every parent knows your children never act worse than

438
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:15.880
when You're on the phone, for sure, and I don't

439
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.160
really believe that Crystal would touch the phone to.

440
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:20.880
Unlikely.

441
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:24.680
And then there was the relationship between Beverly and Crystal.

442
00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:28.200
They did not get along at all, likely sending from

443
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:30.680
the fact that no one was good enough for David,

444
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:34.559
the baby of the family. Once, while taking a family photo,

445
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:37.519
when Beverly asked Crystal to step out of the frame,

446
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:42.519
fists nearly flew, and David's sister, Jane, questioned Crystal's account

447
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:46.200
of David's tight fisted ways with their finances. It would

448
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.599
take the kids forty five minutes to open their birthday presents.

449
00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:53.200
It was so ridiculous, it was sickening, Jane said, Why

450
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:55.640
would a little five year old girl need thirty five

451
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:59.160
Barbie dolls? David wanted his kids to have everything nice,

452
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.519
but not to that extent. Everything was overboard. The normalacy

453
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.480
was not there with Crystal. Jane produced credit card bills

454
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.559
from two thousand and three which showed about eleven hundred

455
00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:14.480
dollars charged around Christmas time to bolster her claim, but

456
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:17.680
there was no proof of who had used the credit cards,

457
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:20.759
and even eleven hundred dollars at Christmas time when you're

458
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.400
buying gifts for two kids and two families. I don't

459
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:25.240
think is an excessive amount to spend.

460
00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:26.960
No, it doesn't seem like it. But it seems like

461
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.079
there are two very different pictures being painted here, depending

462
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:33.480
on whether you're talking to his family or hers. It's

463
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.319
hard to reconcile the two, like one of them must

464
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:38.039
be telling the truth and one of them must not be.

465
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.200
Absolutely. Crystal's friends and family told a different story. They

466
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:44.279
said she was at a voted mother who adored her

467
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.119
children and tried desperately to hold her family together despite

468
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:51.920
David's increasing volatility. They recalled how she would arrive at

469
00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:56.960
their homes in tears, describing his constant criticism and unpredictable temper.

470
00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:02.400
To them, Crystal wasn't unstable, she was terrified. The neighbor

471
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:05.359
recalled an incident when David Junior broke a lamp, causing

472
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.200
a hole in the wall. Cristel was sobbing and asked

473
00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:10.880
for him to help repair the wall before David got home.

474
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.240
Cristel really didn't have relationships with her neighbors. She was

475
00:24:14.240 --> 00:24:16.880
so desperate to get this wall repaired that she went

476
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:18.839
over to him and asked him for help, but they

477
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.680
weren't friends, okay. On another occasion, a neighbor saw Cristel

478
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.319
pounding on the front door of their home, screaming to

479
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.000
be let in. Twice. In September nineteen ninety six, David

480
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:32.200
wrote detailed accounts of arguments that he and Cristel had.

481
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.359
He gave them to a fellow officer for safe keeping.

482
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.279
Here is one account, with the two year old Haley present.

483
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:43.640
Cristel kept a barrage of sarcastic and profane criticism throughout

484
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:45.839
the day and into the evening. She refused to drop

485
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.559
the matter. Finally, at eleven PM, I went to bed.

486
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:51.079
As soon as I laid down, Cristel came into the room,

487
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.519
turned on the light, and announced that she had things

488
00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:55.960
to do in the bedroom. I retreated to the living

489
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:59.160
room couch. She followed and turned on the light, announcing

490
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:01.839
that she wanted to watch some television. This went on

491
00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:04.759
for another hour or two, which I repeatedly said that

492
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.279
I had to go to bed as I needed to

493
00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:09.039
get up early to go to work the next morning. Finally,

494
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.240
in desperation, I warned Crystal that if she didn't stop

495
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:14.880
her ringing me, I was going to leave the house.

496
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.799
She continued her verbal assaults, then began punching and hitting

497
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.119
me because she was so angry and volatile. I gathered

498
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:25.039
all three of the service revolvers I kept in the house,

499
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:27.599
put them in my gym bag, and headed out the door.

500
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:31.200
On my way out, Crystal shouted, if you leave, it'll

501
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:33.759
be the biggest mistake of your life. I drove in

502
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:36.640
my police cruiser to my parents' house to spend the night.

503
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.759
Wow. Like he's putting this down in almost like a

504
00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:41.519
formal affidavit.

505
00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:45.680
Right, Like in the terms are very policeman like. Right, yes,

506
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:50.319
writing it, you know, right case exactly. But it's weird

507
00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:52.759
that he would take the time to write this down, right.

508
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.799
And remember, David is a big man, and Crystal, we know,

509
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.440
is five feet tall and one hundred pounds.

510
00:25:58.519 --> 00:25:59.759
Yeah, the fact that he would take the time to

511
00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:03.000
write this down tells me that he was planning something,

512
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:06.880
Like he was planning for the potential of us himself

513
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:07.839
at some point. Yeah.

514
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:11.759
Patty remembered the night vividly. Crystal had called her sobbing

515
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:14.559
after David threatened to put a bullet into both her

516
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.680
and Haley. Terrified, Patty begged her daughter to call the

517
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.960
police and file a report. Crystal did call, but when

518
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:25.359
asked if she wanted to make an official report, she hesitated.

519
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:28.680
She didn't want David to face disciplinary action or lose

520
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.440
his job, she declined to file a formal report, a

521
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:35.680
decision that would later haunt everyone who loved her. The

522
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.920
next day, when he returned home, David chastised Crystal for

523
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:42.480
calling the police, warning her not to bite the hand

524
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:43.279
that feeds you.

525
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.279
I feel so bad for someone married to a police

526
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:49.440
officer in that situation, because you're just really in a

527
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:50.279
terrible spot.

528
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.480
Not long after, another argument broke out, this time over

529
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:56.440
a five thousand dollars bedroom set that Crystal wanted for

530
00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:59.799
their new home, which David flatly refused to buy, calling

531
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.880
too expensive. In David's written account, he claims that Cristel

532
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.839
yelled at him for ninety minutes, throwing things at him

533
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:09.440
while he held two year old Hayley. He called a

534
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:12.759
friend and fellow officer, Norman Conway, who met him at

535
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:15.720
the gig Harbor Police Department to decide what to do.

536
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.160
David looked Haggar. The T shirt he wore was torn,

537
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:22.960
and allegedly he had other injuries that weren't recorded. Brain

538
00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:26.200
was insistent that he didn't want to press charges. He

539
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:29.599
wanted to work on his marriage. She went nuts on me. Norm.

540
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:31.759
I don't know what to do anymore. I want to

541
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:34.200
stay and work on her marriage, but it's getting harder.

542
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:38.799
Document everything, Norm suggested. David wrote his account and gave

543
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:41.480
it to his friend for safe keeping. He also filed

544
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:45.240
an informational report with the gig Harbor Police Department that read,

545
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:49.200
in part, Brame is concerned with possible escalating problems with

546
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:53.039
his wife, Cristel. Brame states his wife has become increasingly

547
00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:56.960
hostile verbally towards him and has made threats to destroy

548
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:01.640
his career with false accusations. Plans to move from the

549
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:06.160
residence later this night and may request civil standby. In

550
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.440
June nineteen ninety eight, after another physical altercation with Crystal,

551
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:14.200
David asked his mother to photograph dark purple bruises on

552
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:17.799
his upper arms and scratches on his neck. Crystal later

553
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:20.680
said that the bruises were self inflicted, that David had

554
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.000
taken weights and dropped them on his arms to form

555
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.480
the bruises. In two thousand and one, Julie bought her

556
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:31.839
sister a lifetime membership to Oaces Tanning Salon, a generous

557
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:35.000
gift that Cristel loved and used often. Over the next

558
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:38.079
year and a half, she went nearly two hundred times,

559
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:42.039
but every two point eight days. I believe she struck

560
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:46.200
up an unexpected friendship with the salon's owner, Debbie Phillips.

561
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:49.279
Since marrying David, Cristel had drifted away from most of

562
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.960
her friends and hadn't built new connections after becoming a mother.

563
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:57.039
Debbie became a safe space, someone Crystal could finally open

564
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:00.759
up to. Debbie was also a domestic abuse survivor and

565
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.200
became a trusted friend. During one of their talks, Cristel

566
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:07.759
confided something that shocked Debbi. Her sex life with David.

567
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.279
She said had turned violent. Bondage choking. It feels like rape,

568
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:16.400
Crystal whispered. David eventually sought counseling for what he called

569
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:19.839
a sexual addiction, but according to Cristel, his desire for

570
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:24.440
control and his obsession with mixing pleasure and pain never stopped.

571
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:27.920
Crystal and David once went on a vacation to Desert

572
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.599
Shadows Inn Resort in Palm Springs, a clothing optional retreat

573
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.319
that catered to people new to the lifestyle. They enjoyed

574
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.720
it enough to return three more times. During one visit,

575
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.119
they befriended another couple from New Mexico, and they agreed

576
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:46.880
to meet up again. Months later, David approached the other

577
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:50.200
man and asked if he might be interested in swapping partners.

578
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:54.039
The man agreed and they arranged another trip, but when

579
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:56.799
the time came, Cristel refused to go through with it.

580
00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:02.519
David was furious, so the clothing optional resort. We don't

581
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:04.960
know how Crystal really felt about it. I'm not sure

582
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:07.319
if she went along with it or she was into it.

583
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:10.079
Yeah, well, even if she was into that, it sounds

584
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:14.039
like the partner swapping thing she was definitely not comfortable with.

585
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:16.079
She was not into that at all.

586
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:19.440
Finally, in early two thousand and two, after twenty years

587
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:22.880
on the force, David forty three, had the career opportunity

588
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.720
he'd been waiting for. The police chief was retiring. It

589
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.519
was an arduous interview process. Candidates were interviewed by city

590
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.640
council members, but ultimately the decision was made by the

591
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.400
city manager. Among the thirty two applicants, four made it

592
00:30:37.440 --> 00:30:41.039
to the final round. Among them, David Brain being vice

593
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:44.319
president of the local police union, and earning their endorsement

594
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:48.640
helped his chances. In January, the city manager Ray Corpus

595
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.400
offered David the job as the city's forty sixth police chief,

596
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:55.160
with the stipulation that he would have to move within

597
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:58.400
the city limits of Tacoma within the next eighteen months.

598
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.599
His salary was one hundred and thirty two thousand, four

599
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:05.319
hundred twelve dollars and eighty cents, plus eight thousand dollars

600
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:07.119
deferred compensation.

601
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:09.759
About two hundred thirty five thousand dollars.

602
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:14.039
Today and eighty cents. David was likely chosen for the

603
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:17.079
position because of his deep roots in Tacoma and his

604
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:20.920
family's legacy and law enforcement. The local hometown hero was

605
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:24.119
the most logical choice. In the days before the city

606
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:28.039
manager made his decision, someone anonymously contacted him to tell

607
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:31.200
him that Brame's marriage was a mess and there were

608
00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:35.160
allegations of domestic abuse. When asked for proof, they couldn't

609
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:39.279
produce any, so Corpus went ahead with bram Upon starting

610
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:42.200
the job, Brame asked everyone to simply call him Dave.

611
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:46.039
He wasn't comfortable being called chief, He told the Tacoma

612
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:49.240
News Tribune. What is right with the Tacoma Police Department

613
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:51.559
is the men and women who give it all day

614
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.480
in and day out. Our future is limited only by

615
00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:57.400
our ability to dream. I'm home and this is where

616
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.799
I'll stay, and together I know we will do great things.

617
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:04.480
When Brain was sworn in, Crystal awkwardly pinned his new

618
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.599
badge on him in a ceremony attended by two hundred people,

619
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:11.319
including his children. Four year old David Junior stole the

620
00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:13.960
show when he grabbed the microphone and said thank you

621
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.799
for coming. Among Brain's tasks were managing four hundred and

622
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:21.599
twenty employees and an annual fifty one million dollar budget.

623
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.200
David's idol was Michael Corleone, and that's the way he

624
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:28.839
liked to run his department, Godfather style. He stacked the

625
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:32.039
Tacoma Police Department with allies and got rid of people

626
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:36.440
he deemed problematic. He demanded blind loyalty from his subordinates,

627
00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:39.759
no questions asked. You would think someone being the police

628
00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:43.039
chief would know that Michael Corleone might not be the

629
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:47.599
best role model. Tacoma Police detective and friend of David's,

630
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:50.839
Barry McColeman, got him a framed signed picture of al

631
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.960
Pacino as a gift when he became chief. He hung

632
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.599
it in his office and even kept DVDs of the

633
00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:00.680
three films in his desk. Mcc coleman said, was kind

634
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:03.359
of obsessed with the Godfather movie. He talked about the

635
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:05.920
movie a lot. He could quote from it and used

636
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:08.880
it in our bargaining, our union stuff. I could never

637
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.680
remember that kind of shit. I couldn't even remember who

638
00:33:11.720 --> 00:33:14.559
the different guys were or the character's names. But Da,

639
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:15.880
he was obsessed.

640
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:19.920
His friends called him DA. But that might be something

641
00:33:19.920 --> 00:33:22.119
that you might want to do in your career. Yeah,

642
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.480
you could use Michael Corleone in your meetings.

643
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.680
I probably should. Yeah, So, like Michael Corleone, David had

644
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:34.000
a list of enemies, including Police Captain Charles Minima. Minima

645
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:37.279
was the leader of Bram's opposition. Lines were drawn in

646
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.240
the Tacoma PD. You were either on team Brame or

647
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:44.119
Team Minima, and the acrimony spilled over into office politics.

648
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:48.519
David played dirty too, demoting officers just months before their

649
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:52.400
thirty year retirement date, costing them valuable pension money. When

650
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.880
one officer asked why, Brame simply said, because I can

651
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:59.480
others who disagreed with his management style chose to resign,

652
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:03.640
valuing their pride and integrity over loyalty to him. All

653
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:06.599
of this, of course, was done without the public's knowledge.

654
00:34:06.759 --> 00:34:10.039
Most people believed Chief Brame was doing an excellent job.

655
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:14.599
His public image remained polished and professional. On February fourth,

656
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.480
two thousand and three, the city even passed a thirty

657
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:20.719
four point three million dollar bond measure to fund four

658
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:25.039
new police substations and a new headquarters that David would oversee,

659
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:28.960
a clear sign that Tacoma's residence had confidence in his leadership.

660
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.920
Brame had an uncanny way of exuding sincerity in public

661
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.800
and putting forth a positive image, but not everyone was fooled.

662
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.440
Here's a memo he put out in his first weeks

663
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:43.920
as chief. Understand that happiness is not based on possessions, power,

664
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:47.760
or prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.

665
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:52.559
Successful people are loyal, honest, and self starters. Take responsibility

666
00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:55.840
for every area of your life. Be bold and courageous.

667
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:58.079
When you look back on your life, you'll regret the

668
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.679
things you didn't do more than the one you did.

669
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.920
If only he had lived by those words, What.

670
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.039
A fraudulent Turkey. This guy is right.

671
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:07.559
Yeah, I'll say he's.

672
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:11.039
Spouting all these words and not living by them.

673
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:14.199
And yeah, I don't like it. Jeannette Blackwell had been

674
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.320
the administrative assistant to the Chief of Police since nineteen

675
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:22.119
ninety six, serving two chiefs before David Bram. Within the department,

676
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.440
everyone knew Jeanette was the one who truly kept things running.

677
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:28.599
He led people to believe that he was very, very humble.

678
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.599
She said. I had believed him too, until I started

679
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:34.599
working closely with him and realized how arrogant he was.

680
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.840
Jeanette recalled that Bram showed little respect for others, even

681
00:35:38.840 --> 00:35:43.440
his fellow officers. It was very embarrassing, very horrible, she said.

682
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:46.840
He was often rude and dismissive to the other secretaries

683
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.519
in the department as well, but to the public he

684
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:53.679
displayed an awe shuck's local boy charm. Don't call me Chief,

685
00:35:53.719 --> 00:35:56.440
He'd say, with a chygrin, I grew up here, call

686
00:35:56.519 --> 00:36:00.880
me da. Jeannette was professional, but was kind and had

687
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:04.079
a warm personality that put people at ease, even David.

688
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:06.840
Although she held a great deal of disdain for him,

689
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:09.639
she was able to hide it. He began confiding to

690
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:12.519
her about his marriage, calling her into his office each

691
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:16.880
morning and unloading Crystal's latest transgressions toward him. She was

692
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:20.119
volatile and abusive toward their children and him, he claimed.

693
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.440
When David crossed the line and shared personal details of

694
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:26.320
his sex life with Jeannette, she corrected him and told

695
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:29.880
him he'd gone too far. David often vented about Crystal

696
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.159
to other coworkers too. He painted her as unstable, irrational,

697
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:37.679
and sometimes unhinged. He made it clear that he believed

698
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:39.320
someday she might snap.

699
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:42.599
One time, Jeannette was on the way to the emergency

700
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.440
room and it was eleven o'clock at night, with her

701
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.039
sick child in the car, and David called her and said, hey,

702
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:51.079
what are you doing And she's like, well, I'm driving

703
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.880
my child to the emergency room. And he said, oh, well,

704
00:36:53.960 --> 00:36:55.880
let me tell you what's going on with me in

705
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:00.360
Crystal Wow, and never even asking about her child.

706
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.079
Geez, we'll be back after a break.

707
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.599
Based on absolutely no proof, David decided that Crystal was

708
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:16.360
having an affair and was determined to catch her in

709
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.320
the act. On April twenty fourth, two thousand and two,

710
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:23.039
Crystal's thirty fourth birthday, she was stunned when she received

711
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:27.320
a flower delivery. The card simply read from your secret admirer.

712
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:31.639
Crystal didn't have a secret admirer, Lane Judson, Crystal's father,

713
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.880
said those flowers were from Bram. He was playing games,

714
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.599
just like he always did, like he was trying to

715
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:41.480
catch her in the act right. David also bought her

716
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:45.760
a Thomas Kincaid lithograph. Their house was filled with them.

717
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:49.480
He loved the Painter of Light, but Crystal couldn't stand

718
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:53.920
the mass produced art. Remember the time? Oh kay there, Yeah,

719
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:55.760
they were kind of cool.

720
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:57.679
They're kind of cool, but yeah, you don't get a

721
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.320
gift to somebody that is something you like but not

722
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:00.840
that into.

723
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:02.840
Oh you're not supposed to do that.

724
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:03.440
No.

725
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.000
David, try as he might, had never been much of

726
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:10.960
a ladies man. While somewhat attractive, he was awkward and

727
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:14.159
a little shy around women. But after he became chief

728
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:17.800
something shifted. The position gave him a new sense of

729
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:22.159
confidence or arrogance, and he began feeling emboldened to make

730
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:26.159
advances toward women in ways he once wouldn't have dared.

731
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:28.920
There were a few pseudonyms in this story, people that

732
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.719
preferred to remain anonymous, and I believe Linda Watson is

733
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:33.280
one of them.

734
00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:33.719
Okay.

735
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.360
Thirty year old Linda Watson, tall, slim, and burnett was

736
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:41.039
the most attractive female cop on the force. She'd been

737
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:45.079
with the Tacoma Police Department since nineteen ninety three. David

738
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:48.360
had taken interest in her years earlier when he asked

739
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.599
her if she'd like help studying for the detective's exam.

740
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:55.159
The speed at which Brame was promoted was legendary around

741
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:57.559
the station, so she took him up on his offer.

742
00:38:57.920 --> 00:38:59.880
They met for lunch and he gave her some point

743
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.360
and another officer was present to set Linda at ease.

744
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:07.800
Not long after, while on duty filing paperwork out in

745
00:39:07.880 --> 00:39:11.880
her cruiser, David, Crystal and the children happened by, and

746
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.360
David introduced her to his family. When she scheduled a

747
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:19.119
meeting to discuss adjusting her work hours to better accommodate

748
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.800
her six year old daughter, David seemed attentive at first,

749
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:26.239
but rather than addressing her request to stand the day shift,

750
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.679
he leaned in too close and turned the conversation toward

751
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:33.960
personal questions unrelated to her schedule. When the meeting ended

752
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.719
without a resolution, David asked her to meet him for

753
00:39:36.840 --> 00:39:41.000
lunch again. She agreed, hoping to drive home how important

754
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:43.320
it was for her as a single mother to be

755
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:45.880
there for her daughter at night. But the lunch again

756
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:51.400
felt uncomfortable, too familiar and not addressing Linda's concerns, David

757
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:54.280
asked her pointed questions that revealed that he must have

758
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:57.960
studied her personnel file or reached out to her friends

759
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:03.920
for more information. Too much. Linda was very uncomfortable. Finally,

760
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:05.920
he got to the point, do you want to do

761
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:07.119
a little true crime theater?

762
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:07.920
I'm sure?

763
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:08.960
Do you want to be dated?

764
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:09.719
Not really?

765
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:11.519
Do you can you pull off SWARMI?

766
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:13.320
Not really, but I'll do my best.

767
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:13.719
All right.

768
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:16.440
Last week, when Crystal and I ran into you at

769
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:18.800
the mall, later she told me how much she liked you,

770
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:20.159
how beautiful you are.

771
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:21.800
Well, that's nice. I liked her too.

772
00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:24.599
Maybe some night we could all go to the theater

773
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:26.480
together and have dinner together.

774
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:28.199
Oh, I think it would be better for you and

775
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.119
your wife to enjoy a date night without me tagging along.

776
00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:34.719
Well, that's where you're wrong. Crystal has a wild side.

777
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:37.760
She likes to try new things, especially in the bedroom.

778
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:41.239
I think you might be the same, She fight, I.

779
00:40:41.199 --> 00:40:45.840
Don't think this is an appropriate conversation. You're making me uncomfortable.

780
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:48.519
You know, crysteal and I have fantasized about bringing someone

781
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:51.559
else into our bed. We've talked about having a threesome,

782
00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:54.400
and we both thought you might be interested. You can

783
00:40:54.440 --> 00:40:56.199
get to know her a little better if you'd like.

784
00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.360
It's been a fantasy we've always had, but we've never

785
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:00.199
acted on it.

786
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:06.079
You're making me comfortable, making myself uncomfortable for me. I

787
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:07.599
really need to get going. I need to pick up

788
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:08.599
my daughter, all.

789
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:11.079
Right, But don't forget to think about my offer. And

790
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:14.119
good luck on that detective's exam. I really hope we

791
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.800
can get you that promotion soon. Oh boy. He had

792
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:19.920
to bring in the thing about the promotion at the end, too.

793
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.559
So Linda fled from the restaurant. Deeply disturbed by the conversation.

794
00:41:24.079 --> 00:41:26.920
She went home and took a scolding hot shower. But

795
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:29.400
one thing she knew for sure was that she didn't

796
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.519
want Chief Rame as an enemy. He'd just put her

797
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:36.320
in an impossible situation, but he'd made the implications clear.

798
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.440
If she entered into a sexual relationship with him and

799
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:42.679
his wife, she'd be made a detective and receive a

800
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:47.079
more favorable schedule. And then the phone calls started. Rain,

801
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:50.159
typically on weekends, would call Linda to invite her over

802
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:52.840
to his house or to meet up at a hotel

803
00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:56.000
with him and Crystal. She dodged the calls as much

804
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:59.559
as possible. Sometimes he'd even put Crystal on the phone.

805
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:04.159
Linda stopped answering her phone, but surprisingly she was promoted

806
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:07.440
to detective. I was very surprised that she was promoted

807
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:08.119
to detective.

808
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:09.400
I am surprised to hear that too.

809
00:42:09.800 --> 00:42:12.360
Cristel had no desire to be part of a threesome,

810
00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.360
but David put pressure on her to call Linda in

811
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:18.559
hopes of them forging a friendship, while Linda was hunt

812
00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:21.840
high alert by this time and rebuffed any advances and

813
00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:25.519
made it clear that she was not interested. Meanwhile, the

814
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:29.960
Brain's marriage continued to unravel. The arguments became more frequent,

815
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:34.559
more intense, more violent. When David lost his temper, choking

816
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:38.280
Crystel became his go to form of control. His grip

817
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:42.280
was so strong that more than once Crystal lost consciousness.

818
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:44.840
The fear that he would take it too far or

819
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.360
what he might do next never left Cristel's mind. His

820
00:42:48.559 --> 00:42:52.280
chilling words rang in her ears. It's every man's fantasy

821
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:56.239
to strangle his wife. We've talked about the correlation between

822
00:42:56.280 --> 00:43:01.480
attempted strangulation and murder before. Prior to non fatal strangulation

823
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:06.679
greatly increases the risk of future lethal violence. Women who

824
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.880
experienced it had over six times the odds of an

825
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:13.239
attempted homicide and over seven times the odds of a

826
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:18.079
completed homicide. This highlights the importance of screening for non

827
00:43:18.199 --> 00:43:22.880
fatal strangulation when assessing abused women in an emergency setting.

828
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:26.760
If a man touches your neck, even once it's time

829
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.559
to reevaluate your relationship.

830
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:33.679
Those are really chilling statistics and really good advice. I mean,

831
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:35.760
it's not something I ever would have really thought of

832
00:43:35.840 --> 00:43:39.280
before that that is such a correlation between yeah, that

833
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:39.880
type of thing.

834
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:42.519
But yeah, seriously, if someone touches your neck, you note

835
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:45.039
that that person could touch your neck in a deadly

836
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:47.280
manner at some point in the future. And I know

837
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:49.320
it's easy for me to sit here and say, you know,

838
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.719
leave your relationship if that happens, but that is one

839
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.440
of the biggest red flags that we have. Sadly, sure

840
00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.679
one night, particularly disgusted, Crystal chose to sleep on the couch.

841
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:03.440
She awoke to David looming over her. What are you doing?

842
00:44:04.039 --> 00:44:05.800
Do you think you'd have a heart attack if you

843
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.079
woke up and I was standing over you with a

844
00:44:08.119 --> 00:44:10.360
mask on and a butcher knife in my hand?

845
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:11.920
Are you crazy?

846
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:13.360
Not as crazy as you?

847
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.960
I'm going to report you. I swear, go ahead.

848
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:19.440
Who would believe you? I'm the chief of police? Or

849
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:22.400
maybe you forgot that. No one will believe you, Crystal,

850
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:25.119
So you go ahead and do whatever you want.

851
00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:29.239
You are playing creepy a little too well, sir. In

852
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:34.000
February two thousand and three, Crystal began having severe stomach pains. David,

853
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:37.079
who never lifted a finger around the house, was compassionate

854
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.159
about her discomfort and began bringing her a coke every

855
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:44.320
time she didn't feel well. Suspicious about his sudden concern

856
00:44:44.440 --> 00:44:46.679
for her health, she went to the doctor to be

857
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:51.159
tested for arsenic poisoning, but it came back negative. But again, Crystal,

858
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:53.079
she knows that she's in danger.

859
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.000
Yeah for sure. Well, and there's also a lot of

860
00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.920
other things other than arsenic that could yeah cause a

861
00:44:57.960 --> 00:44:58.559
problem too.

862
00:44:58.960 --> 00:45:01.559
Crystal had been on edge for years on the brink

863
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:04.719
of filing for divorce, but the final straw may have

864
00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.800
come when David informed her that she was going to

865
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.719
be a retired cop friend's birthday present.

866
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:13.679
Oh my god, You're going to give him a blowjob

867
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:14.840
and I get to watch.

868
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:18.159
I will not. I've been planning to leave you for months.

869
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:21.280
I'm leaving your perverted ass for good, and I know

870
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.760
about your secret bank accounts. I'm taking half of everything

871
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:25.840
what I deserve.

872
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:28.760
I'll kill you before you get any of my deferred

873
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.280
comp I can't believe you made me do that.

874
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.719
I can't believe you did it so well. Crystal decided

875
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:38.679
to file for divorce in Seattle in King County, hoping

876
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:42.639
to keep the divorce private and quiet to protect David's job.

877
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:46.519
Despite everything, she and the children still relied on his income,

878
00:45:46.920 --> 00:45:50.280
and she really didn't want to humiliate him in public.

879
00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:54.320
On February twenty fourth, two thousand and three, Crystal's divorce

880
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:57.440
lawyer told her that David would be served with papers

881
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:00.360
that day. She was nervous, but relieved to get it

882
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:04.199
over with. How would he react? Crystal knew it might

883
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:07.039
get ugly, but she'd made a plan. She tried her

884
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:10.119
best that morning to be pleasant and act normal. After

885
00:46:10.199 --> 00:46:12.840
David left her work, Paddy and Lane rushed over to

886
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.360
help box up what they could bring to their house.

887
00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:19.480
They lived in a nearby gated community, which made Crystal

888
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.960
feel safer. By two pm, they had vacated the house,

889
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.079
which was fortunate because David arrived home soon after. It's

890
00:46:27.159 --> 00:46:30.280
like his CoP's intuition was pinging and he knew something

891
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:33.000
was going on. As they walked through the house trying

892
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:35.840
to find Crystal, he sensed that some of her things

893
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:38.920
were missing. He called Jeanette at the station in a panic.

894
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:43.840
She's gone. Jeannette later recalled how emotional he'd been on

895
00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:47.239
the phone. David called his in law's house and begged

896
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:50.400
to talk to Cristel. She agreed to talk to him.

897
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:53.039
They both cried as he pleaded with her to return.

898
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:57.079
He apologized for not treating her better. Cristel told him

899
00:46:57.119 --> 00:46:59.000
that they could talk later and hung up.

900
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:00.239
Don't believe him, Christel.

901
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:03.199
At four p m. A process server arrived at the

902
00:47:03.199 --> 00:47:06.840
Brame home and handed David the divorce papers. By that point,

903
00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:11.079
he wasn't surprised. In the filing. Cristel requested several things.

904
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:15.079
Half of David's monthly income about fifty three hundred dollars,

905
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:18.119
and that he'd pay her seven thousand, five hundred dollars

906
00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:22.360
attorney's fee and sole possession of their marital home. She

907
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:26.199
also asked that David's mother, Beverly Braim, have no contact

908
00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:29.280
with the children, citing past incidents in which she had

909
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:32.599
struck David Junior. The document also made it clear that

910
00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:36.159
she was fearful for her life. Later, after the children

911
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:39.119
were settled with her grandparents, Cristel agreed to come back

912
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:42.119
to the house. David told her that the police chaplain

913
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:45.800
Bill Bolby would be there to help counsel them. Bolby

914
00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:49.480
was there when Cristel arrived. He reminded her that as

915
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:52.400
a good Christian woman, that she had taken vows in

916
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.320
front of God and she shouldn't forget that. He tried

917
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:57.960
to talk her into pausing the divorce for six weeks

918
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:02.280
while she and David attended marriage counseling. I can't know.

919
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.199
This was the hardest decision I ever have made in

920
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:07.239
my life, but I think it's the best thing for

921
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:09.519
me and the children. I just want all of us

922
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:12.480
to be happy. David, It's better this way for all

923
00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:16.400
of us it is. Crystal told the chaplain some shocking

924
00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:20.559
secrets about David. The marriage was irreparable, she explained, she

925
00:48:20.719 --> 00:48:24.480
was done. She returned to her parents' house, feeling confident

926
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:28.039
that she'd made the best decision possible for herself and

927
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:32.280
for her children. Tragically, the nightmare was far from over.

928
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:35.519
I was afraid it was far from over, because otherwise

929
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.679
we probably wouldn't have an episode to talk about. But

930
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:41.719
with this stupid police chaplain coming in and giving advice

931
00:48:42.159 --> 00:48:44.719
when he knows nothing about the marriage, and I don't know,

932
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:46.880
it just bugs me that he just kind of came

933
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:49.159
in blindly told her, Oh, you need to stay in

934
00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:49.679
and work.

935
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:51.480
On it, you know, right, And you know that that

936
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:54.920
is a problem that the police chaplain didn't know that

937
00:48:55.039 --> 00:48:58.480
David was abusing her, you know. And I think that's

938
00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:01.400
a good point that any kind slur can only help

939
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:03.679
you as much as like the amount of honesty you

940
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:06.159
are with them. Yeah, it didn't really make sense, but

941
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:07.880
I think you know what I mean. Yeah, for sure,

942
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:09.960
I think that's where we're going to stop for part one.

943
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:13.440
But how proud are you of Crystal for sticking with

944
00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:15.280
her decision to leave there at the end.

945
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:17.599
Yeah, I mean really proud. That's hard to do, and

946
00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:20.599
she you know, went through a lot. It sounds like

947
00:49:20.679 --> 00:49:24.840
in those situations when someone is being controlled by a

948
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:27.880
husband like that, I think it's very difficult to you know,

949
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:29.880
get stand up for yourself and get out of it.

950
00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:31.920
I think at that point she was just done and

951
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:34.480
she had her resolve and she was ready to move

952
00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:37.480
on with her life. We had talked earlier about the

953
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:40.320
two different accounts. We have David's account where Crystal was

954
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:44.679
abusive and Crystal's account that David's what David was abusive. Yeah,

955
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:46.480
which do you tend to believe more?

956
00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:50.400
Well? I tend to believe Crystal's account partly because, you know,

957
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.159
I think with the stories you told about after he

958
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:56.480
became chief of police, the way he treated people in

959
00:49:56.480 --> 00:49:58.960
the police department, it all points to kind of the

960
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:01.440
same way that he seemed to be in the marriage

961
00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:05.400
as well, like just kind of controlling, using people, you know,

962
00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:08.159
getting rid of people he didn't like. It just seems like.

963
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.400
Yeah, strolling the situation.

964
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:11.039
Yeah.

965
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.599
That leads to my next question where I was saying,

966
00:50:13.639 --> 00:50:16.199
you know, do you think that David was manipulative and

967
00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:19.880
always covering his ass? By talking about Crystal's abuse and

968
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:23.119
documenting their arguments. Remember, he would talk to his assistant

969
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:25.920
and you know, all the people around the office, which

970
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:28.320
is really unprofessional, if nothing else.

971
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:32.000
Totally unprofessional, and like filing these AffA davits if you

972
00:50:32.039 --> 00:50:33.559
want to call them that, like these.

973
00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:35.960
Written reports files that you know, yeah.

974
00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:37.280
Yeah, that he would share with friends of me. It's

975
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:40.119
obvious that he was doing that for a reason, like

976
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:43.320
that he wanted to cover himself for a future, you know,

977
00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:45.639
whatever was going to happen in the future, whether it

978
00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:50.599
was divorce or you know, accusations against him of being

979
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.880
abusive or whatever it was. He was trying to cover himself.

980
00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:56.199
Well, I think nothing was more important to David than

981
00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:59.159
his career and the trajectory of his career. He was

982
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.519
so proud right that he made it to chief, and

983
00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:05.719
there was probably some rivalry within his family, like he

984
00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:08.199
had made it to chief his father hadn't, you know,

985
00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:11.199
his brothers hadn't, And he would do anything to keep

986
00:51:11.239 --> 00:51:11.679
that job.

987
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:13.000
I think, yeah, for sure.

988
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:15.280
Do you think it was possible for Crystal to ever

989
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:16.639
feel safe again?

990
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:20.800
No? No, definitely not, sadly no, I think in that situation,

991
00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:23.519
like there's just too many red flags there.

992
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:27.079
Do you wonder if anyone in the police force really

993
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:27.960
know what was going on?

994
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:32.239
Yeah? I mean I'm sure some people suspected.

995
00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:35.320
Because remember there were some this sect of people that

996
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:38.719
were his enemy, right, and they really kind of saw

997
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:39.119
through him.

998
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:41.000
Yeah, I'm sure they saw who he was as a

999
00:51:41.039 --> 00:51:43.920
person and probably could you know, extrapolate from that to

1000
00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:46.840
what his relationship was with his wife.

1001
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:49.199
This is something that I think about all the time

1002
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.480
in these cases and even in my personal life. How

1003
00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:55.760
do you support a woman who is going through an

1004
00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:00.239
abusive relationship? Like what could Crystal's family have done or

1005
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:02.559
her friends have done. It's so hard because I think

1006
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:05.000
if a woman isn't ready to leave yet, there's really

1007
00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:05.920
not much you can do.

1008
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:06.360
Yeah.

1009
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.679
I love that her parents had told her, honey, it's

1010
00:52:09.679 --> 00:52:12.000
okay to leave him. Yeah, we're not telling you to

1011
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.039
stay in your marriage.

1012
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:14.800
I think that's the right. I think it's the only

1013
00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:16.719
thing you can do, right. You can't tell someone to

1014
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:19.280
leave because they're you know, if they're not ready, like

1015
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.320
you said, it's not going to work. All you can

1016
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.079
do is be there and listen and help give them

1017
00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:26.360
that kind of advice that you know, it's okay to

1018
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:29.840
make a decision that might go against what you believe

1019
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:32.239
or you know, what you want your life to look like.

1020
00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:35.760
But yeah, it's a really that's that's a very difficult situation.

1021
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:38.480
I think something that I have a hard time with.

1022
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.880
As you know a friend, being a wife and a mom,

1023
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:45.199
your job so often is to solve things, and I

1024
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:48.280
want to solve everyone's problems, and sometimes a friend just

1025
00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:51.159
really needs you to listen. And that's something I've tried

1026
00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:52.880
to work on a little more. Is you know, even

1027
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:54.800
with you, like you'll tell me something that's going on

1028
00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:56.320
at work and I'm like, well, you need to do that,

1029
00:52:56.679 --> 00:52:59.159
And then now I realize that you know, you'll you'll

1030
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.760
get there, you'll figure down your own and until you're

1031
00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:03.960
ready to make a change, you know, all I can

1032
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:06.960
do is listen. But if you suspect a friend is

1033
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:10.679
in a dangerous situation, remind them it's okay to leave.

1034
00:53:11.159 --> 00:53:13.199
And I'm always here for you if you need a

1035
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:14.400
safe place to go.

1036
00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:17.920
And help them identify what maybe resources might be available

1037
00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:20.159
as well, Like you're there to help them, but there's

1038
00:53:20.159 --> 00:53:21.880
also you know, numbers you could call.

1039
00:53:22.159 --> 00:53:25.599
Right, it's a slippery slow because I have had friends

1040
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:28.280
that not are necessarily in an abusive relationship, but are

1041
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.760
in an unhappy marriage, and if you say something, they

1042
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:34.480
can get a little Yeah, oh for sure. Yeah. I

1043
00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:37.760
think I think Rich is a jerk too, And yeah, yeah.

1044
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:40.280
It's a very delicate, delicate situation.

1045
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:42.320
That truly is. I have one more question for you.

1046
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:45.760
Do you know any co workers who are nudists or swingers?

1047
00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:48.840
And if so, would it change your opinion of them?

1048
00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:51.880
Is a great You don't have to say their names.

1049
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:55.800
Oh yeah, Joe, it works, No, Joe Smith.

1050
00:53:56.079 --> 00:53:58.039
I do not. I can honestly say I do not

1051
00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:02.559
know of any workers who are nudists or swingers. I can't.

1052
00:54:02.599 --> 00:54:04.920
I'm trying to think back in my career and I

1053
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:06.880
can't think of anybody that I've known.

1054
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:08.679
Probably something that you don't tell people.

1055
00:54:09.079 --> 00:54:11.480
I mean, if you're a swinger, you probably want you

1056
00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:14.239
want people to know in some sense, right, because you're

1057
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:15.880
looking for you know, other p.

1058
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:18.559
There are clubs and places for that, and I think

1059
00:54:18.719 --> 00:54:21.039
that that's what most people do, is they find a

1060
00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:21.840
safe space.

1061
00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.920
And I do know someone who went on their honeymoon

1062
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:28.480
to a resort that was I think it was clothing

1063
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.599
optional and he told me a little bit about it.

1064
00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:33.559
They weren't like nudists, but they just went to this

1065
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:35.800
resort and he was like a little It was a

1066
00:54:35.800 --> 00:54:36.559
little eye opening.

1067
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.039
We were on our honeymoon. Wasn't there a nude beach

1068
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:40.920
that someone told us?

1069
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:41.079
Oh?

1070
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:42.239
You did not want to go there?

1071
00:54:42.360 --> 00:54:43.880
Yeah? It was in Jamaica. Yeah.

1072
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:46.960
Would you judge a friend or co worker? Really?

1073
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:49.880
I mean too, I'm always like a live and let

1074
00:54:49.960 --> 00:54:52.599
live kind of person. Well as you're not hurting someone else.

1075
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:54.800
I mean weird, just like you were someone who was

1076
00:54:54.840 --> 00:54:58.840
in a cubicle you just walked, You're on the corner

1077
00:54:58.880 --> 00:54:59.840
in Joe's.

1078
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:03.840
Yeah, that I might judge a little bit.

1079
00:55:03.920 --> 00:55:06.280
It would be frowned in the workplace. What you do

1080
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:09.679
on your own time is your own business. Absolutely well,

1081
00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:12.480
please be sure to come back for part two. Part

1082
00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:14.320
two might break us.

1083
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:16.599
Oh no, Well, if you would like to listen to

1084
00:55:16.599 --> 00:55:18.599
you Part two right now, you can join us on

1085
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:21.800
patreon dot com slash love Mary Kill. We have one

1086
00:55:21.880 --> 00:55:24.719
tier for five dollars a month. You get early access

1087
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:27.760
and you get to listen to multi part episodes all

1088
00:55:27.880 --> 00:55:28.840
at once without waiting.

1089
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:38.480
So it's still November, and November is such an important month,

1090
00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:42.079
I think to really because it's my birthday, well exactly,

1091
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:45.119
and let me just talk about gratitude. That was a

1092
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:47.840
great segue because I just wanted to talk about gratitude

1093
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:51.320
for a second. And I'm so grateful to you, my partner,

1094
00:55:51.800 --> 00:55:56.519
no serious, but our listeners too. We have developed such

1095
00:55:56.559 --> 00:55:59.320
a good group of people, such a good community, and

1096
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.920
I just want to say I sincerely, I am so

1097
00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:06.840
grateful for our relationships. And yeah, it's just been such

1098
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:11.119
a wonderful, supportive journey for the most part. This weekend,

1099
00:56:11.239 --> 00:56:15.280
there was another threat on Reddit that mentioned us, and

1100
00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:16.119
that just was.

1101
00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:18.119
Like multiple people mentioned us, and it was so yeah,

1102
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:18.760
it was just.

1103
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:22.880
So touching, and just know that we truly appreciate it.

1104
00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:26.400
It said something was like, they're kind of funny. They

1105
00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:30.480
don't even try to be funny. So that made me laugh.

1106
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:31.719
That was kind of a funny comment.

1107
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:34.000
It's true, though, because I think some people try really

1108
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:35.719
hard to be funny, and if we make a joke,

1109
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:40.719
it's not really it just natural. I know I don't

1110
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.480
have to try. I'm very blessed you are very funny.

1111
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:47.440
But just know that we truly appreciate your support. It

1112
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:48.480
means so much to us.

1113
00:56:48.519 --> 00:56:50.199
We really do. I think when we started this over

1114
00:56:50.239 --> 00:56:54.079
three years ago, we never would have expected to like have,

1115
00:56:54.199 --> 00:56:56.480
you know, have these relationships with people. I know they're

1116
00:56:56.679 --> 00:56:59.480
over email or messaging wherever, but it's just so cool.

1117
00:56:59.559 --> 00:57:01.679
Even the people that I know aren't messaging us that

1118
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:03.960
are listening. And I hear that we put a lot

1119
00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:07.760
of people to sleep, yeah, which it makes me laugh.

1120
00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:09.920
Which we should probably keep it down sometimes. I think

1121
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:12.480
sometimes why are we talking? So I should we just

1122
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:17.159
do a whisper episode? Yeah, it would be totally crazy, creepy. Really,

1123
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:19.880
you kind of played the swarmy guy pretty am I

1124
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:21.840
saying that smarmy?

1125
00:57:22.159 --> 00:57:22.360
Yeah?

1126
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:23.559
I was sorry.

1127
00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:26.679
I try. I try really hard when we have when

1128
00:57:26.679 --> 00:57:30.880
we're acting, to try to get into character. I do.

1129
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:34.360
I do pride myself on being, you know, a pretty decent.

1130
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:37.079
I think we both think that we're better actors than

1131
00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:40.559
maybe we actually are. I don't know. I shouldn't speak

1132
00:57:40.599 --> 00:57:41.920
for you, but.

1133
00:57:41.559 --> 00:57:43.400
But I did feel like I was. I did feel

1134
00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:45.159
like I was nailing the part, and it made me

1135
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:47.119
feel a little bad that I was nailing the part

1136
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:48.719
because he's a horrible person.

1137
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:50.519
So you're not a horrible person, but it is.

1138
00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:53.840
Honestly, it's really it's fun to play terrible people, I

1139
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:56.599
think when in like, if I was an actor, I

1140
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:58.559
think those would be the roles I would like the

1141
00:57:58.599 --> 00:58:01.360
most because it's just fun to get to be somebody

1142
00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:02.559
so different.

1143
00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:04.960
Right right. I think a lot of actors seem to

1144
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:06.639
play the same role over and over.

1145
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:07.239
Mm hmm.

1146
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:10.480
But yeah, to be like a really bad guy, yeah,

1147
00:58:10.599 --> 00:58:13.119
I think call us NBC ABC.

1148
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:15.599
I don't know what show would you want to Well,

1149
00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:18.440
you wanted to be in a Hallmark movie, I do,

1150
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:20.920
I do you want to play well, you want to

1151
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:22.679
play podcasters in it, But I think it would be

1152
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:24.199
fun to play the bad guy too.

1153
00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:26.639
I've been meaning to give a shout out to our

1154
00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:30.000
friend Marcy. I think her last name is Bleszie b

1155
00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:33.440
l E s Y. She writes a lot of really

1156
00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:36.360
cute books, so she just sent me a copy of

1157
00:58:36.760 --> 00:58:40.400
her latest book is called Dying on the Housetop Ho

1158
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:42.239
Ho ho, a Christmas novella.

1159
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:43.079
Oh that's cool.

1160
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:45.480
Yeah, you haven't finished it yet, but I started, and

1161
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:49.000
she's really funny and sweet and kind nice, So I

1162
00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:51.320
really think you guys should should check it out.

1163
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:54.719
I'm so impressed with anybody that can write a book.

1164
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.119
Yeah, she's written a bunch in this series, but she's

1165
00:58:57.159 --> 00:58:59.840
also written some young adult books and if you have

1166
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:04.480
Kindle Unlimited, it is on Kindle Unlimited this month.

1167
00:59:04.599 --> 00:59:05.039
So cool.

1168
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:08.119
Yeah, she's awesome. I love her. Over the weekend, we

1169
00:59:08.199 --> 00:59:09.360
got our first snow.

1170
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:10.159
We did.

1171
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:12.760
It was supposed to snow like up to six inches,

1172
00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:14.960
but I think we got an inch. And it was

1173
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:16.920
the best kind of snow because as soon as it

1174
00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:20.039
hit the road or the dryway, it melted.

1175
00:59:20.760 --> 00:59:23.559
It looked pretty. It was really nice. But yeah, it's.

1176
00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:27.159
Super cold here. Now it's gonna warm up. But I have,

1177
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:30.960
like I have these fleecy leggings on that I got

1178
00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:34.119
from Amazon that are fleece lined inside that I recommend.

1179
00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:36.480
But I did layers today because I'm freezing.

1180
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:38.679
Yeah, I've been cold the last Do you remember.

1181
00:59:38.800 --> 00:59:43.360
Last weekend on Halloween when it was warm and someone

1182
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:45.320
told you that you should put up the Christmas lights?

1183
00:59:45.639 --> 00:59:46.760
No, I don't remember.

1184
00:59:46.880 --> 00:59:48.800
I remember that. No, I don't think anyone told me,

1185
00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:50.679
did you did you get those Christmas lights up?

1186
00:59:50.679 --> 00:59:53.360
No, because I don't think anyone told me that. I

1187
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:56.239
didn't hear it. If someone did, maybe they did that's.

1188
00:59:56.119 --> 00:59:59.679
Some wise person with red hair told you that you

1189
00:59:59.719 --> 01:00:00.880
should Christmas.

1190
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:03.639
I don't know anywhyy Why is.

1191
01:00:03.639 --> 01:00:06.000
That job relegated to you? Why do you always have

1192
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:06.480
to do it?

1193
01:00:06.519 --> 01:00:06.960
That's true?

1194
01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:10.119
Oh well, because I spent like two days decorating the

1195
01:00:10.119 --> 01:00:11.039
inside of the house.

1196
01:00:11.079 --> 01:00:13.880
But you know what's another day spent on the outside.

1197
01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:16.000
It would be you know, you might as well just

1198
01:00:16.119 --> 01:00:16.599
keep going.

1199
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:19.440
I mean, somehow we do. I don't think this was

1200
01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:21.880
intended when we first got married, but we do tend

1201
01:00:21.960 --> 01:00:23.679
to do like chores that are.

1202
01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:27.719
More traditional male and female. Like something breaks, it's my

1203
01:00:28.199 --> 01:00:29.000
job to fix it.

1204
01:00:29.599 --> 01:00:30.679
I don't know why that happens.

1205
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.440
Oh I do because I think we're both very I

1206
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:36.519
don't think either of us are like confined to those

1207
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:38.280
kind of gender roles or anything like that.

1208
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.599
But it just well, you are you were not handy

1209
01:00:41.639 --> 01:00:43.559
when we first got married. Do you have taught yourself

1210
01:00:43.719 --> 01:00:46.000
a lot of stuff? Like and we have. We've talked

1211
01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:49.800
about ourderator situation. Everyone knows about our stupid ice maker,

1212
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:53.159
but our dryer also is problematic, and like.

1213
01:00:53.119 --> 01:00:54.960
You taking that thing apart more time?

1214
01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:57.079
Right? And I don't think I would be I mean,

1215
01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:59.920
you've done it a lot of times where lint gets

1216
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.159
stuck in places that shouldn't get stuck and you have

1217
01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:04.039
to totally take the front off.

1218
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:06.519
And well, I don't know what we did before YouTube,

1219
01:01:06.519 --> 01:01:09.840
because it's yeah, you find a video on everything that

1220
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:10.960
can get to call a.

1221
01:01:11.000 --> 01:01:14.119
Guy and now I just say, honey, yeah, I do

1222
01:01:14.239 --> 01:01:17.559
my best. Well, that was an exciting conversation.

1223
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:19.760
I don't know how we yeah, how did we get here?

1224
01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:22.360
Well, thank you all so much for listening, and please

1225
01:01:22.400 --> 01:01:25.639
come back for part two. Until next time, don't kill

1226
01:01:25.639 --> 01:02:07.119
your wife and don't kill your husband.