Nov. 24, 2025

Crystal and David Brame - Part 2

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Crystal and David Brame had been married for eleven years when the tension in their home reached a breaking point. As David’s career in law enforcement advanced, Crystal found it harder to seek help and even harder to escape his control. In February 2003, she filed for divorce and moved out of their home, determined to start over. But in the weeks that followed, emotions ran high—and what happened next would leave an entire community reeling.

Today's snack: Freckles

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Hi. I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. If there's one thing

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we've learned in over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina.

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How are you?

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I am doing well? How are you?

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I am good, and I am grateful. I'm grateful for you,

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and I'm grateful for all our listeners. It's Thanksgiving week?

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Are you exit same? I sure am. I am totally

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so thankful for all of our listeners and for you.

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I just wanted to remind everyone really quick if you

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are a person that would rather get right to the case.

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We do have another edition of our podcast. It's still

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a little newer. It's the just the Facts edition. We've

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had a lot of people give us positive feedback on that.

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How do you feel about that?

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I think it's great. Not everyone loves banter and snap.

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Yeah, I totally agree. Whatever version works best for you

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works for us. This is totally out of the blue.

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But right before we started recording, I was watching a

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video on YouTube from Brad Bradley and remember the Amy

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Bradley case. Oh yeah, the cruise ship she had. She

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was allegedly seeing a man named Tom, and Brad talked

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about Tom but didn't use a last name, and it

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just sounded a little like it made me question that

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Tom existed. But there was this YouTube video. It was

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the first and only interview that Tom has done. Tom

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actually had filmed for the Amy Bradley Is Missing documentary,

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but for some.

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Reason, they left him.

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They did, they did. He said that they had a

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real relationship. They saw each other three, four or five

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times a week. It was romantic, they went on dates.

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He was eight years older, he was in management at

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the restaurant that she worked at. Okay, but they were

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still seeing each other at the time she disappeared.

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Interesting, So it probably doesn't shed any more light on

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why she disappeared, but maybe a little more background into

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who she actually was.

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Right, and I thought that she lived her life openly

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as a lesbian, So I mean maybe she was more bisexual.

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Because Brad had said that, I mean, Tom seemed like,

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you know, a nice guy. I didn't really doubt what

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he was saying, but some of Amy's friends had doubted

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the realness of their relationship with this. The video that

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I was watching was from East Idaho News if you

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want to check it out. I only watched fifteen minutes

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of it. It's over an hour long. I probably want

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any more of it. But Tom does exist. Something that

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we talked about recently that got a lot of feedback

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from listeners was whether or not Tina she could a botox.

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People had a lot of strong opinions either way. Some

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people were like, girl, you do you deserve it? You know,

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if it makes you feel better, do it. And other

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people like, why would you put toxins into your body?

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You moron? So, you know, very divisive, right, But our

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good friend and Kylie Kylie from Primetime Crime Crime with

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a K who I love, reached out to me and said,

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you know, you should try something called frownies. Frown I

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e s. And they're like little stickers kind of that

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you put on. You can put them anywhere you want,

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wherever you think you have wrinkles. But I've just been

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putting it in my It's like a little triangle and

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I put it right here.

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Do I look right between your eyebrows? Yeah?

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I took a lot of eyebrow here, So that's a

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little problematic put And I had had them, and I

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had tried them, but I was like, oh, I don't

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really think they're doing much. But I probably consistently done

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it for like a week, probably maybe ten days, and

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I really do think it it works. Not like botox,

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but it really does work. So ladies, if you want

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to look, you know, a little more youthful for the holidays,

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you could try frownies.

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Well you still look as beautiful as ever to me,

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so I haven't seen a big difference.

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Okay, whatever, cheese ball, I did make you a snack,

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oh good bye, But it's not boiled peanuts.

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Well, okay, that's good.

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That also a lot of people were angry with us

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for not trying real boiled peanuts, so we will try

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that at something. I would give myself a D minus

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four today's effort. I'm sorry, but I know I'm tired

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and I still had work to do in the case.

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And okay, but they are called mini jets freckles and

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jets are crackers in Australia, like what we call a

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ritz is a jets, but the rits I couldn't find

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the mini rits, so it's a bigger ritz. But I

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thought that people might like a quick, easy snack to

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make with their kids. So you take sprinkles or those

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little round ball sprinkles, and you put them on a

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cookie sheet, and then you put chocolate wafers. We only

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had vanilla, and then you put them like you line

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them up on your cookie sheet on top of the sprinkles.

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You put it in the oven like a warm oven,

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like three hundred for just two to three minutes, and

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then you pop the little crackers on top of it.

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So it's cute, right, Uh yeah, well.

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Mine isn't as cute because my crackers are too big

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because I don't have Jatzer crackers. But okay, do you

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want to try the freckles, I'll give them a try.

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Sure.

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Did you like the freckles?

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Yeah, they were pretty good. Yeah, I'd give you at

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least a c that was more than a d minu suffer.

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Literally took me two minutes.

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Well it took you longer than just you know, picking

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a bag of something out of the pantry.

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There is a candy made in the Tacoma area called

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almond Roca. Tried to get it from Amazon, but I

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couldn't get it in time, and I couldn't find it

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at our store. But it looks yummy. And the other

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snacks from Washington were like smoked salmon and fish ptet

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and things like that. So anyway, sorry about the freckles.

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Well, no, I think they were pretty good.

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I think if you were like a little kid, I

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think you would probably really like it. Are you ready

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to hear Part two of Crystal and David Brain?

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I am.

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Do you want to give us a summary?

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I would love to Crystal When David Bram had been

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married for eleven years, living in Gig Harbor, Washington with

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their two young children. Over time, David's controlling behavior escalated

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from constant arguments to physical violence. He frequently choked Cristel

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during fights and pressured her to join a swinger lifestyle

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that she wanted no part of. When David was promoted

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to chief of Police and Tacoma, Cristel recognized the danger

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his power and influence posed. Determined to reclaim her life,

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she filed for divorce and moved into her parents' home

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in a nearby gated community. Now confronted with the reality

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that his marriage was ending because of his own actions,

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David grew desperate. He wanted to keep his private life

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and the abuse hidden to protect his career. Yet he

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couldn't accept that Cristel was truly done. She, however, was resolute.

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For the first time in years, she was ready to

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begin again without him.

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The change in David was immediate and stark. Jeanette Blackwell,

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David's assistant, was a keen observer to everything that happened

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at the station. The change was very dramatic in regards

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to his work performance, said Jeannette. He was not getting

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anything done. He had an excellent group of assistant chiefs

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that were running the department. Without them, nothing would have

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gotten done. Crystal filed in February, and for about two

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weeks it was just kind of bad because he hadn't

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shared too much with anyone. He was still getting stuff

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off his desk because I was just basically babysitting him.

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And then once he started sharing little bits and pieces

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of his divorce, he just gradually began to deteriorate. He ate,

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slept and drank Crystal brain. David dropped weight, stopped combing

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his gray hair or brushing his teeth, and he'd break

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down in tears at the smallest reminder of his wife.

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I don't care what was going on in my life.

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I don't think I would stop brushing my teeth.

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I appreciate that he either refused to attend meetings or

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was extremely late. Jeanette reminded him, sometimes sharply, that he

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was still the chief of police and had a duty

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to the people of Coma, but he could barely hold

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himself together. He was consumed with despair over his failing

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marriage and terrified that Cristel might expose his darkest secrets,

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his most private desires. During this time, Jeannette and Assistant

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Chief Catherine Woodard found themselves playing the role of stand

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and wives, buying his groceries, scheduling his appointments, listening to

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his endless confessions. He was pitiful.

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It is pitiful.

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But Katherine Woodard became more entangled than she'd intended when

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she called Cristel to hear her side of the story.

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Woodard took careful notes during the call, like a good

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cop would, but she realized the precariousness of the situation.

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Catherine told Cristel that David was not a dangerous man.

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He definitely wasn't having an affair, and she should consider

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reconciling with him. Cristel made it very clear that her

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marriage was over and she was ready to move on.

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She knew by the tone of Woodard's call that David

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had put her up to it. One whom Cristel had

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once respected and considered a friend was now an enemy

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and shouldn't be trusted. David was devastated when his attempt

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to use Catherine to persuade Cristel to give him another

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chance completely backfired. But Cristel she came back to life.

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The spark that had been dimmed by her abusive marriage reignited.

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Her vibrant personality returned, her laughter came easily again for

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the first time in a long time. She felt hopeful

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about the future. She even decided to apply to law school,

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ready to build a new life on her terms. When

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Cristel was in college, she had majored in criminal justice.

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Cristel had never been especially close with her neighbors, but

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one day she struck up a conversation with neighbor Bill Kurtenbach.

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He noticed how different she seemed, happier, lighter, more talkative.

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Even her posture had improved. One afternoon, she confided in

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him about the years of abuse and control she'd endured,

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how David had monitored her every move. Now finally free

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from the toxic marriage. She was ready to tell her story.

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I think that's something that people when they're in an

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abusive situation, that they like to talk about it a

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lot to kind of work out their trauma.

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Yeah, I can imagine.

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An entry into Cristel's journal shows how emotionally fraught David

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was during this time. David said he had really underappreciated

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me and that all the marriage problems were all his

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fault and he didn't blame me for leaving. He said

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he only wanted to be married to me and that

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he was a fool to want other women. He continued

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by saying that he had the perfect wife and the

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perfect life, and that he threw it all away for nothing.

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A court date hadn't yet been set to iron out

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a custody agreement, but Crystal agreed to let David have

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the kids for a weekend at their former home where

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he was still living. Haley and David Junior were upset

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and didn't want to go back to the house without Crystal.

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David lashed out and shouted, look what you're doing to

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the kids. Look what you've done to our children by

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filing for divorce. It was enough to remind Cristel that

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she'd made the right decision. David hadn't changed at all. Still,

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part of her wanted to believe things could get better.

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She'd told him she'd consider giving their marriage another chance,

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but only if he would agree to two things, more

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money each week and to severtize with his mother. David

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refused both. He was obsessed with saving money, determined to

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stash away five thousand dollars a month no matter what

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it costs his marriage. Money was more important than saving

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his family, but he was spiraling. After he dropped Haley

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and David Junior off from their weekend together, he called

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Crystel and told her, you need to give me one

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reason why I am losing you. You will always be

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my true love and I will never let you go.

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Do you get that, Crystal, never means never. I spent

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two years and three months and ten days dating you,

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and you leaving me will be the costliest mistake you'll

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ever make with me. I will always be there knocking

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on your door, even when you're old or away from me.

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I'll always be there. You'll be sorry till the day

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you die.

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Oh that is a scary statement.

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Right when David realized Cristal wasn't coming back. He declared war,

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and his favorite weapon was money. He refused to support

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her or the children financially. Before I give you or

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the children one dollar, I'll see you dead first, he

238
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snarled when Cristel told him Haley needed new shoes. David

239
00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:29.679
kept a meticulous journal, written in police like fragments, detailing

240
00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:33.559
every interaction he had with his children or Crystal. Haley

241
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:36.519
called small talk about school. She said she was sick

242
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and tired of me coming to her school. I repeated

243
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.120
that you're sick and tired of me coming to your school.

244
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Haley said that she didn't mean that, that she forgot

245
00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:47.080
what she was going to say to me. Then she

246
00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:49.799
resumed small talk about school. In the day's events. I

247
00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:51.960
told her that I missed her, and she said me too.

248
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I told her that I loved her, and she said

249
00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:57.039
she loves me too. We then said goodbye. Small talk

250
00:12:57.080 --> 00:12:58.399
with David, then goodbye.

251
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That's really weird. I guess it's just his training as

252
00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:03.840
a police officer, but the fact that he's taking notes

253
00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.120
on just these everyday interactions.

254
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.519
Here's the last entry in his journal, saw Cristel and

255
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.879
her mom at Bartel's and Gig Harber made brief eye

256
00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:15.559
contact when she first came into the store. We did

257
00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.679
not speak. She sneered at me. I looked away as

258
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I paid for my items. The checker said I can

259
00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:23.919
help you next. I looked up and Cristel said okay.

260
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She was about fifteen to twenty feet away from me.

261
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We made brief eye contact and I left the store.

262
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At no time did we speak. Despite his refusal to

263
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:35.840
pay his wife any support money, Cristel allowed him to

264
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see the children. On March twenty sixth, two thousand and three. Haley, eight,

265
00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:42.879
had told her mother that she didn't want to sleep

266
00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.759
in the same bed as her father anymore. She didn't

267
00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:49.000
accuse him of anything specific. She simply said that she

268
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.799
wanted to sleep in her own bed. Cristel was concerned

269
00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:55.480
for Haley and approached David cautiously. He said his favorite

270
00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:58.039
part of the weekend was sleeping with the children, but

271
00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.080
he begrudgingly agreed to let Haim sleep on her own.

272
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Remind me how old are the children.

273
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.360
Haley is eight and David Junior is five. I'm not

274
00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.519
accusing him of anything, and neither did Haley, but I

275
00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:12.240
can understand why she would feel uncomfortable at age eight

276
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:14.840
sleeping in a bed alone with her father. Our kids

277
00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:17.679
used to come into our bed, especially like on Sunday mornings.

278
00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:20.639
I don't know until they were pretty old, but you know,

279
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.039
for Cristel not to be there probably felt a little different.

280
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:24.720
Yeah, agreed.

281
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:28.919
The next day, Haley called Crystal from her grandmother Brame's house.

282
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She sounded upset and said she didn't want to be there,

283
00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.799
that her grandmother was being mean to her. Remember that

284
00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.240
Grandma Brame Beverly had once hit David.

285
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:39.360
Oh Yeah.

286
00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:42.399
In the background, Crystal could hear David coaching her daughter,

287
00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:45.399
telling her to say that she was having fun. At

288
00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:48.039
the end of March, David rented an apartment, but didn't

289
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.200
move in right away, choosing instead to remain in the

290
00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:51.919
family home.

291
00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.320
The first divorce filing was mild, carefully worded, and void

292
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.440
of the dark truths that had played out behind closed doors.

293
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:04.440
Weeks later, Crystal submitted a supplemental declaration that laid everything bare.

294
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.320
She detailed years of abuse, financial control, death threats, and

295
00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:13.720
David's disturbing sexual behavior. She wrote in the amended filing,

296
00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:17.480
despite having suffered through years of physical and emotional abuse

297
00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:20.679
from my husband. I questioned whether to pursue a personal

298
00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.919
restraining order against him. My husband is a high ranking

299
00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:27.639
official with the Tacoma Police Department. She also revealed that

300
00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.120
David's mother, Beverly, had once slapped their young son, and

301
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:33.919
when he protested, she told him, I'll hit you any

302
00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.240
time I want, whether you like it or not. Well,

303
00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.000
that doesn't sound very grandmotherly.

304
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.159
It doesn't. And Beverly not not a nice person. And

305
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.559
I think everyone has. Most people have one mean grandma.

306
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:46.480
Maybe you think so.

307
00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:47.320
Maybe.

308
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.960
David agreed to most of Crystal's settlement terms, even the

309
00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.200
financial ones, but he demanded the case be moved back

310
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.240
to Pierce County, where they lived. It was a strategic

311
00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.600
move there he knew the judges and expected a more

312
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.919
favorable ruling. A hearing to discuss the matter was set

313
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:04.759
for April tenth.

314
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.320
We talked about this in the first episode, but Crystal

315
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.480
had filed in Seattle. She was trying to keep it

316
00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:12.919
a little hush hush.

317
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.679
Yeah, and understandable that she would want it like away

318
00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:18.840
from where he knew all the judges of Aynthany to

319
00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.120
prove she was fit to be a parent. Crystal was

320
00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:25.600
evaluated by a psychiatrist. He diagnosed her with adjustment disorder

321
00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:29.120
with mixed anxiety and depressed mood, and said he could

322
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:32.639
not yet rule out post traumatic stress disorder. He went

323
00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:36.159
on to write the testing results characterized Miss Brain as

324
00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:40.600
an insecure individual who has low self esteem, dependency issues,

325
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.720
and is very attuned and sensitive to other people's opinion

326
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:47.000
of her. These test results indicate a woman suffering from

327
00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:51.759
a generalized state of anxiety, tension, and apprehension. She may

328
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:54.519
have been preoccupied for an extended period of time with

329
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:58.879
feelings of depression, guilt, and hopelessness. She believes that she

330
00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:02.399
is being plotted again and that other individuals are attempting

331
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:04.960
to influence her to make her believe that she is crazy.

332
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:09.279
Miss Brain also achieved testing results found in individuals who

333
00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.359
have experienced life threatening events producing intense fear or feelings

334
00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.279
of helplessness. Individuals confronted with this type of life threatening

335
00:17:17.319 --> 00:17:22.480
trauma often experienced chronic symptoms of anxious arousal, emotional numbing,

336
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:26.759
and avoidance of circumstances associated with the trauma. The doctor

337
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:30.279
made it clear Cristel was genuinely afraid for her life

338
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.440
determined to prepare and protect herself. She signed up for

339
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.880
an eight hour intensive self defense course taught by David

340
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:40.920
Junior's karate instructor. He had created the program after learning

341
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.559
that many of his students, when faced with real danger,

342
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.559
froze and forgot their training. His goal was to hardwire

343
00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:53.200
instinctive life saving reactions punching, kicking, screaming, gouging, whatever it

344
00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:55.759
took to stop an attack her in their tracks. The

345
00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.759
class was scheduled for April twenty seventh. Sadly, Crystal never

346
00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:01.599
made why aren't.

347
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.480
We teaching a class like that in high school physical education?

348
00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:07.359
Not just for women but for boys too.

349
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:09.880
Yeah, it's a really good idea. At the hearing on

350
00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:13.640
April tenth to discuss the venue change, David arrived flanked

351
00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:17.640
by three fellow officers, including Catherine Woodard, as if to

352
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:21.480
intimidate his wife. Christel's parents were with her. No one

353
00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:25.279
made eye contact. Her attorney requested that David pay Crystal

354
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:28.880
something for support since the divorce filing, he hadn't given

355
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.200
her any money. David's attorney agreed that he would write

356
00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:35.000
her a check that day for two thousand dollars. He

357
00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:38.400
also requested extra time with the children more than the

358
00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.960
current every other weekend arrangement. It was also decided that

359
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.559
David would not pick up the children alone when it

360
00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.279
was time for visitation. Katherine Woodard offered to act as

361
00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:51.400
an intermediary, but while they were discussing it, Cristel was

362
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:55.279
focused on signing paperwork and didn't hear the exchange. I'm

363
00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.160
not sure I understand the significance of Crystal not hearing

364
00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:59.240
that exchange.

365
00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:02.519
Well, put that in there for a reason, so you'll

366
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:03.720
find out in a couple of minutes.

367
00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.359
Okay, I'll try to be patient. The judge wasn't ready

368
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:08.960
to rule on the change of venue. He sat another

369
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:12.559
court date for April twenty eight. We'll be back after

370
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:13.079
a break.

371
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:23.319
Although David had rented an apartment, he hadn't moved in yet.

372
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.160
Cristel and the children were still living with her parents,

373
00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:29.839
and David blocked her from entering their marital home. When

374
00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:32.240
she asked for some clothes and her ice skates, he

375
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.839
agreed to bring them to her On Friday, April eleventh,

376
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:38.799
two thousand and three, Before picking up David, Junior and Haley,

377
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:42.799
David grabbed the ice skates Crystal wanted, but when assistant chief.

378
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:47.279
Catherine Woodard arrived unarmed wearing street clothes. David asked her

379
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:52.920
to grab some clothes from Crystal's closet. Later this infuriated Crystal. Then,

380
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.920
without explanation, David popped his wedding video into the VCR

381
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.279
and planted himself on the couch to watch it. He'd

382
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.039
become obsessed with watching this video and had watched it

383
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.839
on a loop since Cristel had left him. As the

384
00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.240
images of happier times played on the screen, Catherine sat

385
00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:14.279
beside him in uneasy silence. At five fifty pm, they

386
00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.519
left to pick up the children. Since the awkward phone call,

387
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:21.079
Catherine had become a thorn in Crystel's side. They'd once

388
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.480
been friendly, but Cristel wasn't happy with how she'd inserted

389
00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:27.920
herself into the difficult situation, and she couldn't rule out

390
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:31.240
the possibility that Catherine and David were having an affair.

391
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.480
Cristel's attorney was aware that David had decided to have

392
00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:38.680
Catherine accompany him while picking up the children to be

393
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.400
a witness, but the attorney hadn't told Cristel When she

394
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:47.079
opened the door to find Catherine standing alongside David, Cristel erupted.

395
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.920
Because the Judsons lived in a gated community, they'd received

396
00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:53.240
a call that David was on his way to their house,

397
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.680
but they weren't expecting another person to be there. What

398
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.599
are you doing here, Cristel said, I'm here to support David.

399
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.440
You're just being nosy. I think you should leave. Catherine

400
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:07.079
held out the bag of clothing she'd picked for Crystal

401
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.920
and raging her further. You were in my closet. How

402
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.000
dare you go into my house, my closet and touched

403
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.759
my things. I would be really mad about that.

404
00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:18.720
I can totally understand that. Yeah.

405
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:21.240
She grabbed for the bag, and soon everyone was yelling,

406
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:24.160
which upset the children as they watched the scene unfold.

407
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.599
David and Catherine ushered the crying children to his car.

408
00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:32.319
Crystal followed closely behind. She kissed her children goodbye, still seething,

409
00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:35.400
but Crystal and her parents talked about the physical stance

410
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:38.960
Catherine and David had taken on their doorstep, and felt

411
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.880
as if they had used their authority as law enforcement

412
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.640
to intimidate them with their presence. I think Catherine was

413
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.440
exceptionally tall and David was tall, and you know how

414
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:52.000
police can just like stand there and taken it. Kind

415
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.519
of an aggressive stance, yea. They decided to file a report.

416
00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:58.240
Crystal called nine to one one and was connected with

417
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.559
the Piers County Sheriff's apartment. We'll read part of the call.

418
00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:05.359
My husband and I are going through a divorce my children.

419
00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.200
I have sole custody of the children. The issues are

420
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.400
that I'm staying for security and safety reasons with my

421
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.039
parents because of numerous death threats from my husband. There

422
00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:18.319
will be a restraining order entered next Friday due to

423
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.079
several death threats and people that he works with that

424
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.799
are intimidating me. He is the chief of police for Tacoma.

425
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:26.759
He does carry a firearm.

426
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:28.839
Tacoma Chief of Police.

427
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:30.960
David Brain, my husband that I'm divorcing.

428
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:33.200
Oh that's your husband, David Brain.

429
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.240
Yes, and this is where the problem lies. He brought

430
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.960
one of the assistant chiefs here who is now an

431
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.359
unwanted guest who has intimidated and threatened me during this

432
00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.599
divorce process. And it had already been made known to

433
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:48.480
my attorney that she was not to have any further

434
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.319
contact with me, and has done this tonight and showed

435
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:54.599
up uninvited as an unwanted guest of my parents home

436
00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:57.519
with your husband, Yes, with my husband.

437
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.160
Who is the chief of police.

438
00:22:58.839 --> 00:22:59.960
My husband, David Brain.

439
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:01.759
Okay, I just wanted to make sure.

440
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:04.400
I'm Crystal Brain. We are in the middle of a divorce,

441
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.039
and I have my parents here to exchange the children

442
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.799
for my safety because there have been so many death threats.

443
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.720
David was supposed to come in alone. He told the

444
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.519
guard that the Brains were here and indicated that they

445
00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:17.960
were a couple. They were not, And it was one

446
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.680
of his assistant chiefs, a female assistant chief, the one

447
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:23.400
who has also intimidated me.

448
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:25.359
And what's that person's name?

449
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.359
That's Catherine Woodard. The five year old was just beside himself.

450
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:30.839
What exactly did she do?

451
00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:34.000
She wouldn't leave the property, and also she had some

452
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:37.279
of my personal items, of my clothing. I'm not going

453
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.319
into the home due to safety reasons and safety issues.

454
00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:43.480
Okay, did you guys exchange the children tonight? Was it

455
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.920
the fact that he brought someone else there and he

456
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:49.720
wasn't supposed to that's correct. Okay. Did any death threats

457
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:50.559
take place tonight?

458
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:52.039
No death threats tonight.

459
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.839
Okay, Well, I'll get a call in and I will

460
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:56.880
get someone out there to contact you just as soon

461
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:57.440
as I can.

462
00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.400
What do you think of this situation?

463
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.559
I can totally understand her being upset like she should

464
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:05.599
have been. It probably could have all been avoided if

465
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:07.480
she had been notified. But it does seem like she

466
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.400
sort of has it in for this Catherine Woodard. But

467
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:13.000
but I kind of understand it as well.

468
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:18.119
I think Cristal not knowing what their relationship actually was

469
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.359
was hard, and also her being a police officer made

470
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.920
it seem more aggressive. Right, Yeah, it's a difficult situation.

471
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:28.240
But also I think she may have overreacted slightly.

472
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:30.240
Yeah, it seems a little bit like that.

473
00:24:30.680 --> 00:24:34.240
An officer called the Judson's home instead of responding in person.

474
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:37.759
Viewing it as a domestic matter without an immediate threat,

475
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.839
he chose not to file an official report, but assured

476
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:44.279
Crystal that he'd made notes about the incident. Before ending

477
00:24:44.319 --> 00:24:46.839
the call. He advised her to seek a restraining order

478
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.599
if she truly felt unsafe.

479
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:49.160
Yet.

480
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.079
Somehow, Bram found out about this report from one of

481
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.599
his moles and called Catherine Woodard irate just before midnight.

482
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:59.960
He directed her to call the city manager Raye Corp.

483
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:04.200
To explain the incident that it had been a misunderstanding

484
00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:07.599
and not an attempt to intimidate or silence Crystal in

485
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.880
her family. Corpus didn't answer. Widard left a message. Fear

486
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:14.480
washed over her as she realized that she might be

487
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:16.839
in a world of trouble. She was trying to help

488
00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:19.599
her friend and boss, but not everyone would see it

489
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:20.000
that way.

490
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:22.720
It doesn't seem like she is like, way more involved

491
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:24.000
than a culture event.

492
00:25:24.279 --> 00:25:28.079
Yeah, definitely. The next morning, when Corpus called, she did

493
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:30.799
what she thought she had to do. She threw David

494
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:34.319
Bram under the bus. She admitted that he'd been falling

495
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:37.079
apart under the stress of his divorce and had been

496
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.480
negligent and sloppy at his job. Corpus seemed surprised no

497
00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:44.799
one had lodged a complaint. Catherine explained that everyone in

498
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:49.480
the department feared David would retaliate if they spoke against him. Soon,

499
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.440
rumors spread throughout the Tacoma Police Department that Woodard had

500
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:56.839
acted badly. David dropped the children off at the Judson's

501
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.480
home on Sunday, April thirteenth. A group of fellow officers,

502
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.079
friends and family met him at the Brain family home

503
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.640
to help him pack up and move to his new apartment.

504
00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:09.720
There was a list that Crystal had carefully made detailing

505
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.039
what David was allowed to take. It was very detailed,

506
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:15.119
like he can have two forks at one played at,

507
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.200
you know, like that kind of business. Ironically, there wasn't

508
00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:21.079
a single Thomas Kincaid painting on that list.

509
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:23.680
She was okay with him having all of those the no.

510
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.000
No, no, she wanted to keep them. Oh I think

511
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.319
she thought they had value.

512
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:29.079
Oh really Yeah.

513
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:32.480
A friend described David's mood that day. He wasn't all

514
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:35.599
that depressed. In fact, he seemed okay with the move.

515
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.039
He would even joke about the place. He was moving to,

516
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.839
a three bedroom apartment at a place called gold Point Apartments.

517
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:46.039
He called them the up the Creek Apartments. The report

518
00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:49.640
detailing what had transpired at the Judson's home the previous

519
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:53.119
Friday made its way through the station. Remember, not everyone

520
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:56.400
was a fan of David bram A group of concerned

521
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.759
officers sent a letter to Internal Affairs. Many of US

522
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:04.920
Patrol officers are extremely disturbed, offended, but not surprised by

523
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:08.720
the allegations brought against Chief David Brame and Assistant Chief

524
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:12.160
Catherine Woodard today for eleven o three. We would all

525
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:14.559
be very interested to find out if Chief Brame and

526
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.400
Assistant Chief Witdard use their badges to gain access into

527
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.759
the private community for personal reasons. We as officers, demand

528
00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.400
that Chief Brame be investigated with the exact same amount

529
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:31.079
of fervor, lust, enthusiasm, and diligence that you have shown

530
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:34.720
when investigating patrol officers. We demand that, if you are

531
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:37.519
not able to do this in an unbiased fashion, which

532
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:39.759
we all know that you won't be able to, that

533
00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:43.039
you turn over the investigation to a law enforcement agency

534
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:46.599
that will be unbiased. Rest assured, we are no fans

535
00:27:46.599 --> 00:27:48.799
of Chief Brame, and we will do everything to see

536
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.839
that this incident is broadcast on the news and put

537
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:55.160
into the papers. We will also be advising these news

538
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.599
agencies that you will be attempting to cover this story up,

539
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:03.039
which we who have lost faith in this department's inept administration,

540
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:05.960
no will happen. For once, it would be nice to

541
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.559
see the administrators practice what they preach and maybe try

542
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:11.799
to live up to the standards set down in the

543
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:16.480
glorious letter we all received from Chief Brain, signed concerned

544
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:22.160
officers of the Tacoma Police Department. That was quite a letter, right, Yeah,

545
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.039
I'm curious what the split was like if it was,

546
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:27.720
you know, thirty percent of the officers tatum, you know,

547
00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:31.480
a couple offers. Yeah, I really have no idea. The

548
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:35.119
response was disappointing to those who had raised the concerns.

549
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:39.519
The official statement read there would be no investigation, per

550
00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:42.359
the city manager. This was due to the fact that

551
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:44.079
the complaint was anonymous.

552
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:45.359
That's a bunch of baloney.

553
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.599
Well, and remember the city manager is this Ray Corpus guy,

554
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.279
and he's he's a little shady busy.

555
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.119
John Hathaway, a fedora wearing to culminative with a pencil mustache,

556
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.480
was a reporter who covered city politics on his website,

557
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.559
The new to Coman, often scooping the mainstream media. A

558
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.799
self proclaimed gadfly, he bragged that he owned at least

559
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:09.799
one hundred and thirty fedoras.

560
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:12.400
Do you know the definition of gadfly?

561
00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:13.799
No, I don't.

562
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.720
A nuisance who asks too many questions.

563
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:20.079
Oh that's perfect for a reporter. On April fifteenth, two

564
00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:23.039
thousand and three, when he retrieved his newspaper, nestled in

565
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:25.640
its box, wrapped up in the parcel was a copy

566
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.200
of Crystal and David Brahm's divorce filing. It's unclear who

567
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.000
stuffed the document inside his newspaper or why. But as

568
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:36.119
a lifelong to coman, no one knew the city's history

569
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:39.720
better or was more attuned to the whispers around city Hall.

570
00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.680
It's really funny that you had pointed out that Tacoman

571
00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:45.559
looks like Taco Man, So now every time.

572
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:47.960
We see it, do you want to see taco man?

573
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:49.519
You see taco man? Not to coman.

574
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:53.759
Hathaway formerly owned a men's clothing store and wrote a

575
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:57.039
fashion column for the Tribune, but in more recent times

576
00:29:57.079 --> 00:30:00.119
he worked as a bartender at a Rundown bowling alley,

577
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.839
which suited him just fine. Hathaway reached out to David

578
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.480
Brain for comment, but received none. When he called the mayor,

579
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.519
he was again met with silence. Paul Malone, his muckraking

580
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:13.200
alter ego, got to work.

581
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:18.160
So Hathaway's quite a character, you guess here. Yeah, I

582
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:20.480
don't know how he got these who gave him these

583
00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:23.960
divorce papers, but I think that's really intriguing. Obviously it

584
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:26.559
was probably one of those disgruntled police officers.

585
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:29.319
Yeah, I bet it was David Bram had planned to

586
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:32.640
go to a seminar the week after Easter. Newly appointed

587
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:36.079
assistant chief Bill Meeks and Catherine Woodard would be filling

588
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:39.200
in for him, but on Good Friday, April eighteenth, he

589
00:30:39.319 --> 00:30:43.480
began harassing Linda Watson again. He paged her NonStop for

590
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:47.440
an hour before she finally answered, Crystal is telling everyone

591
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:49.559
we are having an affair. We need to talk to

592
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:51.839
come up with a plan. He asked to come to

593
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:53.920
her house, saying it would be bad to meet in

594
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.480
public in case they were spotted. She reluctantly agreed to

595
00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:59.039
meet him at his new apartment.

596
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:02.720
If you remember from episode one, Linda was the woman

597
00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.559
who he was trying to talk to have a threesome

598
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:07.759
with me and Crystal. Okay, right to me, It's really

599
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:09.640
odd that she would agree to talk to him.

600
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:13.079
Yeah, it is odd. When she arrived, Brain was crying,

601
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:16.160
telling her he didn't know what to do. She stayed

602
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:19.119
for three hours. He told Linda that he was going

603
00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:21.480
to try to get the court records sealed to keep

604
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.000
her name out of it. She was furious that her

605
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:26.960
name was mentioned at all. She was another victim of

606
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:28.599
David Bram's bad judgment.

607
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.599
He was lying to her though her name was actually

608
00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:34.640
not in the doors. Oh really slings at all? Yeah.

609
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:37.920
On Easter Sunday, David was busy putting together new Ikea

610
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.839
furniture for the kid's bedrooms at his apartment. Feeling forlorn,

611
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.039
He was knee deep in screws and Allan wrenches, wishing

612
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.359
he was having an Easter egg hunt with his children.

613
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:51.079
He called his friend and fellow officer, Barry McColeman to

614
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:52.839
see if he could come over and help him put

615
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.240
the furniture together. David wasn't known to be very handy.

616
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:59.640
Mc coleman could tell David was crying and agreed to

617
00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:03.000
cut his own family obligation short to come help him out.

618
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:06.640
It was an awkward afternoon with Brain crying and venting

619
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.799
his troubles. When David's mother and sister showed up with

620
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.279
a plate of food for him, mccleman took it as

621
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:15.440
an opportunity to make his escape. David walked him out

622
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.000
to his car, gave him a hug, and said, I'll

623
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.960
never forget what a friend you've been to me.

624
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:25.079
This again illustrates how narcissistic and self involved David Brame was.

625
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:28.640
Gets Easter and his friend is with his family, right,

626
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:30.920
he doesn't think anything of Yeah, he asked him to

627
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:32.240
cut his family day short.

628
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:34.720
Yeah, and he's his superior, so the guy is going

629
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:38.000
to feel obligated to say yes. The day after Easter,

630
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:40.519
David seemed to be in better spirits at the station,

631
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.640
more like his old self and on top of his job,

632
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.440
but later that night, he left the following message on

633
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:50.359
Crystal's answering machine. Hi, Crystal and Haley and David. This

634
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:52.960
is Daddy. So you guys give me a call. I'm

635
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:55.519
here at home and so page me if it doesn't work, right,

636
00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:57.880
I think it will work. I just wanted to call

637
00:32:57.920 --> 00:32:59.640
you and tell you guys that I love you and

638
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:02.359
that i'm you guys. I look forward to hearing from you.

639
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.079
Just wanted to say good night to you, guys. Daddy

640
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.759
loves you with all his heart. You guys, take care,

641
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:11.039
have a nice day tomorrow. I love you, Bye bye.

642
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:14.640
They weren't home. They were out celebrating Crystal's brother in law,

643
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:19.640
Dave Aaron's birthday. No one returned David's call. John Hathaway

644
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:23.559
had been working away on the article he titled Tacoma Confidential,

645
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.200
a night owl, he put the finishing touches on his

646
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:30.079
work and pressed send at two eleven am. Here's part

647
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:33.319
of the salacious scoop that Hathaway was thrilled to submit

648
00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:36.680
to three hundred and fifty high profile contacts in and

649
00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:41.200
around Tacoma, including David Braime. What started out as an

650
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:45.400
amicable divorce proceeding filed in King County on February twenty fourth,

651
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:48.440
has turned out to be the biggest scandal this sin

652
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:51.640
city has seen since Commissioner Kerr got caught with his

653
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.960
pants down on K Street better than fifty years ago.

654
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:58.079
According to filings and depositions that have been raining down

655
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.839
on the court faster than bombs and bag Dad, there

656
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:05.440
are accusations of requested sexual favors, group encounters of threesomes

657
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.519
and foursomes, a loaded service weapon left within the children's reach,

658
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:12.719
and death threads. In light of further details to come,

659
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:16.960
will Tacoma's East Side fair haired boy invoke the infamous

660
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.159
Ariola Blue code or stand up in court like a

661
00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:23.320
man and allow his estranged wife and children to get

662
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:26.719
on with their lives. That, dear readers, is the question.

663
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:31.719
This reminds me of a modern day Bridgerton's Lady Whistledown

664
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:35.079
Society papers, which you probably have no idea, but.

665
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:39.000
I'm talking about. David went to the office wearing jeans

666
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:41.480
and a button down on the morning of Tuesday, April

667
00:34:41.559 --> 00:34:44.000
twenty first. He was headed out of town for a

668
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:46.920
seminar in Las Vegas, but had a few loose ends

669
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.800
to tie up before his flight. He quickly scanned his

670
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:53.719
email when he saw John Hathaway's newsletter, David read it

671
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:57.400
and was shocked at the insider details. Unsure how bad

672
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.360
it was, he decided to leave for the airport. Maybe

673
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.840
Sin City would help take his mind off his troubles

674
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:06.000
for a few days. He called his family again, getting

675
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.480
the answering machine. Once in Vegas, after he checked into

676
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:14.280
the Flamingo Hotel, David called again answering Machine. He tried

677
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.239
to shake it off, but Brahm was starting to get frustrated.

678
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:20.920
Several friends were with David in Vegas. They warned him

679
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.679
they didn't want to see any tears or divorce talk.

680
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.360
They were there to enjoy themselves. David called home two

681
00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:32.000
more times answering machine. April twenty fourth, two thousand three,

682
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:35.840
was Crystal Bram's thirty fifth birthday. She was excited to

683
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.960
reach the milestone as a newly single woman, full of

684
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.800
plans and optimism for the future, but sadly, devastatingly, this

685
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:46.840
would be the last birthday she would celebrate. She would

686
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.639
be murdered in two days by her husband, the man

687
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:53.519
she had been fearful of for years. Debbie Phillips recalled

688
00:35:53.559 --> 00:35:56.800
the happiness Crystel exuded that day as she popped into

689
00:35:56.800 --> 00:35:59.719
the tanning salon wearing bright pink lipstick and a new

690
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:03.360
top in her favorite color yellow. Later, there was a

691
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:06.119
party for her at her parents' house. Patty had baked

692
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:09.360
her favorite cake, German chocolate, and spoiled her with an

693
00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:14.239
abundance of gifts, celebrating her new start. Meanwhile, in Las Vegas,

694
00:36:14.280 --> 00:36:17.880
a reporter from the Seattle Post Intelligencer reached out to

695
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:20.480
David Bram for a comment because they were about to

696
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:23.559
run a story about his divorce. He called the reporter

697
00:36:23.679 --> 00:36:26.559
and told her that Crystal was actually the abuser in

698
00:36:26.599 --> 00:36:30.079
the relationship, and he had always been forthcoming about his

699
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.760
marital strife with the higher ups in the police department.

700
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:35.800
While he was calm during the interview, once he hung

701
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.719
up the call, he panicked, making thirty eight calls, including

702
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:43.159
to the city manager, the mayor, and Jeannette. Back at

703
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.880
the station, Jeanette told him that John Hathaway, the gadfly,

704
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:51.000
had left him a message something about palm springs. It

705
00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:54.920
made David's blood run cold. How did Hathaway know about

706
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:58.119
the nudiest colony? He felt like his life was over.

707
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.360
There was no way he could hold his head up

708
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:03.199
any longer in his hometown. If that got out, he

709
00:37:03.280 --> 00:37:08.039
felt beaten, humiliated, untouchable. He'd have to resign. There was

710
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.599
no way around it. His friends convinced him to go

711
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:13.840
out that night, hoping to lift his spirits, but David

712
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:17.159
insisted on going to the Blaggio to gamble, the same

713
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.119
place he and Crystal had gone together. No one felt

714
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.079
like babysitting him or listening to another round of complaints

715
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:26.000
about his marriage on their last night in town, so

716
00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:28.800
they dropped him off and went to see Howard Stern instead.

717
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:31.559
It sounded like they were all pretending that they were

718
00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:34.079
going to go to the Belagio with him. He got

719
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.519
out of the car and they sped off ditched him. Wow,

720
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.400
is the Belagio a bad place to gamble? I don't know.

721
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:42.039
No, it's one of the nicer places, probably like one

722
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:43.519
of the more expensive places gamble.

723
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:44.239
They didn't want to go.

724
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.400
Depressed and lonely, he went back to his hotel early

725
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:50.960
and called Crystal four times in quick succession until she

726
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:56.079
finally answered. Patty eavesdropped on the conversation. Crystal kept repeating

727
00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:59.519
over and over, I am mother to those children, while

728
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:03.639
David's said you were mother to those children. Patty didn't

729
00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:06.039
know what it meant, but she didn't like it. When

730
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:09.039
David's friends returned, he told them the call with Crystal

731
00:38:09.079 --> 00:38:11.920
had gone well and there was talk of a reconciliation.

732
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:15.599
But back in Tacoma, Crystal told Patty that she'd just

733
00:38:15.639 --> 00:38:17.920
wanted to get off the phone, so she told him

734
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:21.320
what he wanted to hear. We'll be back after a break.

735
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:30.599
When David awoke on April twenty fifth, he knew the

736
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:34.360
article had been published in the Seattle Post Intelligencer, but

737
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:38.000
it wasn't as damning as he'd feared. It featured several

738
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:41.079
quotes from him, as hard as it is to believe,

739
00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:44.039
and is ashamed as I am of this fact, Missus

740
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:47.079
Bram has physically abused me for a number of years,

741
00:38:47.239 --> 00:38:50.679
often in the presence of my children. And now I

742
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.119
see that I've become the very victim who used to

743
00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:57.079
frustrate me, David said, recalling how is a police officer

744
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:01.039
he'd once struggled to understand why domestic violence victims wouldn't

745
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:05.960
cooperate with authorities. What a dirt bag, right, Yeah, just

746
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:08.360
to make those statements in a newspaper public.

747
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:10.360
Do you know if they called Crystal for comment?

748
00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:12.719
You know, I don't know. I don't think they did

749
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.880
because I read the article and I don't think it.

750
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:16.440
Maybe they died.

751
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:20.800
Yeah, possibly the article didn't include the details he most dreaded,

752
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.840
the trips to the nudist resort or his attempts to

753
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:27.960
arrange threesomes and foursomes. David had an early flight home.

754
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:30.480
He knew he was headed into the eye of the storm.

755
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:33.679
When he landed at SeaTac, A forty five year old

756
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:36.679
woman named Sally Masters read the article on the front

757
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:40.320
page of the Post Intelligencer. She'd known David Bram since

758
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:43.239
before his marriage to Crystal, and what she read didn't

759
00:39:43.239 --> 00:39:47.320
surprise her. She had information that would contradict David's version

760
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:51.360
of his marriage. Sally believed that Cristel was the real victim.

761
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:55.280
She knew her experience with brain could help Crystal. She

762
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:57.440
picked up her phone and dialed the number to the

763
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:00.559
newspaper and asked to speak with Ruth Ti Pike rob

764
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:03.960
the author of the article. Ruth was very interested to

765
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.000
hear Sally's story. They agreed to meet the next day.

766
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.280
After Brain landed, he called Jeanette to see if the

767
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.519
media was waiting for him. There they were, She confirmed

768
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:17.159
he heard the local paper, the Tacoma News Tribune, was

769
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:20.719
also writing a story about his divorce. Just surprise you

770
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:23.000
that there's all these newspapers that are you know.

771
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:25.559
I mean, it is a little strange that they're writing

772
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:28.800
stories about divorce, but it's a pretty salacious divorce. It's

773
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:29.599
rightly right.

774
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:33.679
He called the reporter, David Sego, and denied abusing Crystal

775
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:37.039
in any way. Cego would later say he seemed in

776
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.159
complete control of his emotions. He did not sound like

777
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:44.320
a man who thought his career or his life was over. Meanwhile,

778
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:47.360
Crystal sent an email to her lawyer after seeing the

779
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:50.360
article in the paper. She had filed a restraining order

780
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:53.519
days before, but it hadn't been put into effect yet.

781
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:57.679
She wrote, one very important issue remaining is the immediate

782
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:01.079
issuance of the restraining order. I would like this filed

783
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:03.840
with the court today. I have been informed that the

784
00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.119
Tacoma News Tribune is running a story on this divorce.

785
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.599
I feel this is extremely important that you are aware

786
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:14.079
of this. I strongly fear for my personal safety, and

787
00:41:14.119 --> 00:41:17.159
I am strongly requesting that the restraining order be put

788
00:41:17.239 --> 00:41:20.559
in place today. My concern is that when David returns

789
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:23.119
from his Las Vegas trip, he will come after me.

790
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:26.280
I am pleading with you to please put the restraining

791
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:29.880
order in place immediately from my personal protection.

792
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:33.000
Wow. So she knew what impact this article would have

793
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:33.599
on David.

794
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.000
At City Hall, there was a meeting to decide what

795
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:39.440
to do with Brain, suspend him, terminate him, or do

796
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.559
nothing and wait. There was no precedent on how to

797
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.199
handle the situation, and there was no way to prove

798
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:48.159
who was telling the truth in the Brain's divorce papers.

799
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:52.239
No decision was made. David returned to his apartment. His

800
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.000
sister Jane came over to check on him. He was

801
00:41:55.000 --> 00:41:57.079
going to pick up the children at six, and she

802
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.320
offered to go with him. He gratefully accepted. He didn't

803
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:03.280
want to face Crystal on the Judsons by himself. There

804
00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:06.119
was no way he was bringing Catherine again. He called

805
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:09.760
Crystal to give her a heads up, and she immediately angered, No, David,

806
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:14.039
Jane cannot come here, come by yourself, don't bring anyone

807
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:15.719
with you and warning you.

808
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:17.159
Why would she say that?

809
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:20.119
I think had it been a neutral party, she wouldn't

810
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.679
have minded. But I think that she knew that anyone

811
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:27.239
David brought was against her. Yeah, and his family. I

812
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:29.199
don't think she at this point she knew that his

813
00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:32.880
family was not on her side. When David and Jane

814
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:35.119
arrived at the security gate, he was told to pull

815
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:37.599
to the side and wait. A minute later, Crystel and

816
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:40.079
her parents drove up with the children, and a peaceful

817
00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:44.000
exchange took place, to everyone's relief. Later that night, David

818
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.679
called Jeanette Blackwell at home to tell her about his day.

819
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:48.440
He told her that he had a good night with

820
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.519
the kids playing and wrestling, but now he was sad

821
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:54.960
watching the wedding video again. She reminded him that that

822
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:57.360
wasn't healthy and it was time for him to focus

823
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.800
on his future and his career. For about an hour

824
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:03.400
before Jeannette told David that she needed to get ready

825
00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:06.320
for bad. She reminded him not to read the newspaper

826
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:09.000
in the morning, but of course he did for that.

827
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:12.480
She just seems like I feel bad for her being.

828
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:17.159
Too Yeah, she seems like a peach. David was surprised

829
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:20.360
and relieved by the headline the next morning, city will

830
00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:24.440
not investigate police sheep abuse allegations raised in divorce case.

831
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:27.480
But as he paged through paper, he saw his name again,

832
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:32.119
this time on the editorial page. City manager can't ignore

833
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:35.639
brame case. The article was brutal, but brain knew far

834
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:38.639
worse secrets were still buried. He could only hope they

835
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:41.320
stayed there, though deep down he knew it was only

836
00:43:41.320 --> 00:43:44.440
a matter of time before they surfaced. David had been

837
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:46.000
out of the house for a couple of weeks, but

838
00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:48.639
Crystal hadn't moved back in yet. Remember she was a

839
00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:52.519
meticulous housekeeper, and she accused David of trashing their home.

840
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:55.239
With help from her parents, she had been cleaning and

841
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:58.599
freshening things up preparing to move back in that Saturday

842
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:01.599
while the children were with David, worried that he might

843
00:44:01.639 --> 00:44:05.320
have planted listening devices. Crystal even hired a professional to

844
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:09.480
sweep the house, but nothing was found. That was really smart, Yeah,

845
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:12.119
very smart. She had them come back once or twice

846
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:15.000
more because she just was so sure that he had

847
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:16.119
placed something there.

848
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:17.360
Yeah. I don't blame her at all.

849
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:20.079
At ten am, Crystal left to attend a four hour

850
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.440
court mandated parenting class how to help children cope with

851
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:27.000
separation and divorce. People who attended the class with Crystal

852
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:31.079
described her as friendly and talkative. She openly shared her story,

853
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:33.920
but in a room full of others navigating divorce, her

854
00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.760
situation didn't stand out. Everyone there had a story to tell.

855
00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:40.960
That morning, David took his son to karate, then returned

856
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:44.000
to the apartment for lunch. Later, David and the children

857
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:46.599
went out again to run a few errands, wash the car,

858
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:50.880
pick up groceries, etc. Just an ordinary Saturday. But before leaving,

859
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:53.679
David had laid out a dark suit neatly on his bed,

860
00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:57.440
beside a few handwritten Bible verses. Before leaving the house,

861
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.440
he strapped his service revolver beneath the sweater he was wearing.

862
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:03.719
I think sometimes he wore his weapon and sometimes he didn't.

863
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:06.400
At two thirty, David and the children stop at the

864
00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:09.079
drug store to buy some light bulbs, a few small toys,

865
00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:12.239
and some candy. He'd promised to get them some crazy

866
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:15.639
foam for bath time, but the drug story didn't sell it.

867
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:19.159
At two forty seven, Krystel left the class she'd stayed

868
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:21.639
late to talk with the instructor and get his advice.

869
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:25.920
He cautioned her that her situation was uniquely dangerous and

870
00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:28.800
she should stay as far away from her husband as possible.

871
00:45:29.400 --> 00:45:31.199
David and the children were still on the hunt for

872
00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:34.239
crazy foam. They stopped at fred Meyer picking up pudding

873
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.039
in chocolate milk, but still couldn't find the crazy foam.

874
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.519
David promised the kids they'd track it down next stop

875
00:45:40.679 --> 00:45:43.360
Rite Aid. Meanwhile, Christel was on the phone with her

876
00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:46.480
mother Patty, driving to the tanning salon when she spotted

877
00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:49.119
David's car on the road. For reasons we'll never know,

878
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:51.840
she made a U turn and followed him. At three

879
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.239
oh seven pm, she ended the call with her mother.

880
00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:57.119
She followed David and pulled into the right AID parking

881
00:45:57.159 --> 00:46:00.360
lot behind him. David noticed her and told the children

882
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:02.400
to stay in the car. She was parked a few

883
00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:06.679
spaces away, visible from his car. Moments later, an eyewitness

884
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:10.199
saw David sitting in the driver's seat of Crystal's Toyota Camry,

885
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:13.360
the door open, his long legs stretched out with his

886
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:16.599
feet on the pavement. Crystal was leaning in towards him.

887
00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:20.719
The witness heard her say, oh no, don't. Then came

888
00:46:20.760 --> 00:46:25.079
two shots, one a pause, then another. The eyewitness believes

889
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:28.119
that Crystal crumpled to the ground after the second shot.

890
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:31.719
It was so strange, the witness recalled, she just collapsed

891
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.079
like there was no bones in her body, just meat.

892
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:36.880
I've never seen anything fall like that before. She fell

893
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.920
like a rag doll. Panic the man ran into a

894
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:43.599
nearby story, shouting for someone, anyone, to call nine one one.

895
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:47.400
It was three eleven PM. Another eyewitness saw one of

896
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:51.039
the most heartbreaking scenes imaginable, a little girl and her

897
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:54.519
younger brother running toward the car where the gunshots originated.

898
00:46:54.920 --> 00:46:58.000
She screamed, oh no. No one was able to intervene

899
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.679
fast enough to prevent Haley and David from the car,

900
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.559
and finding their father slumped over, nearly dead a bullet

901
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.159
in his skull, and their mother writhing on the ground,

902
00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:10.400
covered in blood and gore, gasping for her next breath.

903
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:13.760
David's clock forty five on the ground near his feet.

904
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:16.880
Adding to the chaos of the scene, David's car alarm

905
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:20.000
echoed through the parking lot. Hailey pleaded for help. My

906
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:24.079
daddy's hurt. My mom, help her, help her. My dad's

907
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:27.719
meaned to my mom. Ray Lanier, a paramedic, happened to

908
00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:30.760
be pulling into the right aid his experience kicking into gear.

909
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:33.800
He rushed to Crystal's aid. There was so much blood

910
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:36.320
he couldn't see where she'd been shot. He laid her

911
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:39.119
gently down, straightened her body, and made sure her earway

912
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:41.960
was clear. He covered her head gently with a towel

913
00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:44.599
to shield her from her children's view. He checked on

914
00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:47.920
David and saw blood and brain matters spattered throughout his car.

915
00:47:48.280 --> 00:47:50.760
He had shot himself in the right temple, with a

916
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:54.239
bullet exiting on the left side. Haley again said, through

917
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:57.079
her sobbing, my daddy's a policeman and he's very mean

918
00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:59.360
to my mommy. I think my daddy has killed her.

919
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:03.000
Please my mommy. They're in a divorce. The people who

920
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:05.039
had gathered in the parking lot tried to comfort the

921
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:06.639
children and shield their view.

922
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.280
Oo oh my, that's a horrible, horrible scene.

923
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.760
I can't imagine anything worse. Imagine just you know, just

924
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:16.239
a Saturday, you're out during errands, and you know, you

925
00:48:16.360 --> 00:48:19.519
just you come upon the scene and these beautiful little

926
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:20.599
children have seen that.

927
00:48:20.760 --> 00:48:23.039
It just well, the only thing I'm at least a

928
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:26.199
little thankful for is that he spared the children like

929
00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:28.320
in you know, some of these cases that doesn't happen.

930
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.840
We'll talk about it at the end. But it's just

931
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.639
so strange, like how this scene happed like it.

932
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:35.639
Yeah, the fact that she made a U turn and

933
00:48:35.679 --> 00:48:39.000
followed him there, Yeah, very strange, but uh yeah, just

934
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:42.000
so so sad. A kind young woman who worked at

935
00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:45.320
the nearby Hollywood Video took the children's hands and gently

936
00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:48.679
led them from the scene into the store. Haley remembered

937
00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:52.639
her grandparents' phone number. Patty had been dialing Crystal's number

938
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:55.599
NonStop since she'd hung up with her. She answered on

939
00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:58.119
the first ring when someone from the video store said,

940
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:01.760
there's been an incident near Hollywood Video. Please hurry, your

941
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.599
grandchildren are here. Patty and Lane Judson rushed to the scene.

942
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:08.239
They called Julie and Dave on their way and told

943
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:11.199
them to meet them at the video store. Crystel clung

944
00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:14.480
to life while in the ambulance. She was lucid enough,

945
00:49:14.679 --> 00:49:17.360
though unable to speak, to fish the bullet out of

946
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:20.679
her mouth and hand it to a shocked emt. Once

947
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:23.519
she was assessed at the hospital, she was medevaced to

948
00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:27.760
a Trauma I hospital in Seattle. David was unconscious but

949
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:31.360
still breathing. He was taken to the same hospital as Crystal.

950
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:36.000
David's parents weren't informed until three thirty pm. After spending

951
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.480
the morning at a funeral for a family friend, they

952
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:41.559
went to the Emerald Queen Resort casino for the afternoon.

953
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.159
They were paged over the loud speaker to go to

954
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:47.920
the manager's office, where officers from the Tacoma Police Department

955
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:50.760
waited to inform them of the grim news and take

956
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:54.559
them to the hospital. Beverly thought that Cristel had shot David.

957
00:49:55.039 --> 00:49:57.719
Dave Crocker had been a detective for only a few

958
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:01.440
weeks and had never worked such a grouco. In Gig

959
00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:04.800
Harbor's history, there had only been two homicides. It was

960
00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:08.599
supposed to be a safe place. The Pierce County Sheriff's Department,

961
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:12.760
along with the Gig Harbor Police, responded to the devastating scene.

962
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:16.320
The Tacoma Police Department wasn't called to the scene. They

963
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:19.559
were shocked and too close to David Brahm. Well, not

964
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:22.679
everyone was shocked. Some people had seen a tragedy like

965
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:26.320
this coming for weeks. Because the victims were still alive

966
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:30.159
when first responders arrived, their top priority was saving lives.

967
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:33.199
Both were rushed to the hospital, but in the process,

968
00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:37.280
crucial evidence was disturbed, carrying much of the forensic material

969
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:40.599
away with them. This made it much harder to reconstruct

970
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:43.559
the crime scene, and none of the nearby businesses had

971
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:45.239
surveillance footage of the incident.

972
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:47.559
I don't know if I've thought about this before, but

973
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:50.719
you know, in this case, because they were both in

974
00:50:50.800 --> 00:50:53.519
a rushed to the hospital, and life saving measures were

975
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:55.880
taken at the scene, you know, it made it a

976
00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:58.119
lot harder to determine what actually happened.

977
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.480
Yeah, I guess so. I hadn't really considered the possibility

978
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:04.079
that people might have thought that she did the shooting,

979
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:06.039
but yeah, I can see why that would make it

980
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:10.440
a little confusing. David's injuries were far too severe to survive.

981
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:13.880
He died at five forty three pm. He was forty

982
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:17.280
four years old. Catherine Woodard was made acting chief of

983
00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:20.840
the Tacoma Police Department. She had lost credibility with a

984
00:51:20.840 --> 00:51:23.719
lot of the officers, but insisted that she and David

985
00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:26.880
had not been having an affair. The children were taken

986
00:51:26.880 --> 00:51:30.079
to the hospital to be questioned by a forensic child interviewer.

987
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:33.559
While heartbreaking to think about, it's best to question children

988
00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:36.800
as soon as possible before their memories begin to shift.

989
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:40.639
Investigators wanted to understand what happened in the final moments

990
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:43.920
before the shooting. It was after nine pm and both

991
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:49.079
children were exhausted. David Junior five was questioned first. He

992
00:51:49.119 --> 00:51:51.960
didn't understand what had happened, and it was unclear if

993
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:55.119
he had seen the shooting. He wasn't crying, but seemed

994
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:58.559
to be in a dissociative state. He repeated several times

995
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:01.639
that he and Haley had been very, very scared. Hayley's

996
00:52:01.639 --> 00:52:04.880
interview didn't go much better. She seemed to be parroting

997
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:06.800
what she had heard the adults around her.

998
00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:10.800
Say, so her breaking. You know, the situation with the kids,

999
00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:14.639
like they've just lost both their parents essentially, and you know,

1000
00:52:14.679 --> 00:52:18.880
having to be interviewed and just yeah, that's really so sad.

1001
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:24.039
Within hours, the media descended upon Tacoma Dateline twenty twenty

1002
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:27.239
forty eight hours and others, all wanting to know how

1003
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:30.360
this unstable man had become the police chief of a

1004
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:34.519
mid sized town. Residents presented a unified front and refused

1005
00:52:34.519 --> 00:52:37.719
to talk to them. A reporter uncovered an old article

1006
00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:40.159
noting that Brame had been the subject of an internal

1007
00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:43.639
affairs investigation in the nineteen eighties, though the details of

1008
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:47.320
the case were never disclosed. With further digging, he learned

1009
00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:51.679
that the investigation had been closed and deemed unfounded. Ram's

1010
00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:55.159
enemies within the Tacoma Police Department tipped reporters off to

1011
00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:59.159
a nineteen ninety nine lawsuit against David Brame, Ray Corpus

1012
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:03.039
and the City. Tacoma. Lieutenant Joe Kirby filed a ten

1013
00:53:03.079 --> 00:53:06.840
million dollar suit accusing the department of favoritism and a

1014
00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.960
good old boy network that promoted insiders despite union rules.

1015
00:53:11.480 --> 00:53:14.559
The lawsuit had been dropped and sealed, but there was

1016
00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:18.079
one more skeleton in Brain's closet that he'd long thought

1017
00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:20.960
to stay hidden that was about to be revealed. The

1018
00:53:21.000 --> 00:53:25.440
skeleton had a name, Sally Masters. Sally and David had

1019
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:28.320
worked together in the late nineteen eighties. They went to

1020
00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:31.719
dinner one night. The date hadn't gone well. Sally was

1021
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:35.719
not interested in pursuing anything further, but David forced himself

1022
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:39.000
on her and raped her. It took Sally fifteen months

1023
00:53:39.039 --> 00:53:42.519
to gain the courage to report the attack. Initially, David

1024
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.880
claimed they'd had consensual sex, but later admitted to his

1025
00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:50.000
longtime friend and fellow officer Reggie Roberts, who was investigating

1026
00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:53.440
the crime for internal affairs, that he had raped Sally.

1027
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:59.360
The infuriating question remains, why wasn't Brain punished. The investigators

1028
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:02.760
cited the fire following reasons in their report. Sally hadn't

1029
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:05.920
made the claim until fifteen months after the assault. There

1030
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:09.519
was no physical evidence, and Brame denied ever admitting to

1031
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:13.760
the assault. The investigation found the allegations to be inconclusive

1032
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.400
and the file was sealed.

1033
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:18.599
So these files being sealed to protect him.

1034
00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:23.159
I know that's just not right. No. When questioned why

1035
00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:27.159
Brame had been named police chief despite the internal affairs investigation,

1036
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:31.280
Tacoma City Manager Ray Corpus claimed ignorance and said he

1037
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:33.920
had never read his file before naming him for the job.

1038
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.519
But insiders say that's impossible. I mean, even if it's

1039
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:41.119
not possible, it's incredibly negligent not to look into his

1040
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.679
past before you name somebody police chief.

1041
00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:44.880
That good old boys network.

1042
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:48.239
Yeah, the officers who viewed Brame as an enemy, they'd

1043
00:54:48.280 --> 00:54:51.280
known all along and they were sure Corpus did too.

1044
00:54:51.800 --> 00:54:54.800
So we know a lot of these officers hate David,

1045
00:54:55.000 --> 00:54:56.960
and now we know that this is one of the

1046
00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:57.719
reasons why.

1047
00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:00.880
Yeah, it's understandable. It's so inferior that all of this

1048
00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:05.360
stuff was sealed. Crystal remained in the hospital. Her injury

1049
00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:09.280
is dire. The community rallied around her. Signs popped up

1050
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:12.639
around town with messages of love and support. The Right

1051
00:55:12.679 --> 00:55:16.159
Aid parking lot was blessed in a religious ceremony. People

1052
00:55:16.239 --> 00:55:20.119
left cards, flowers, and balloons, wanting to help, but unsure

1053
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:23.880
how for the city to heal. They needed Crystal to survive.

1054
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.760
Her family, including the children, were at the hospital around

1055
00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:31.360
the clock, holding her hand, whispering to her, encouraging her

1056
00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:35.360
to hang on, and her condition was improving. After a

1057
00:55:35.400 --> 00:55:38.800
few days, she was upgraded from critical to serious condition.

1058
00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:43.159
She lifted a finger, opened an eye, squeezed her mother's hand,

1059
00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:46.920
giving small signs of hope. She was fighting for her life.

1060
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:50.920
When doctors removed the respirator, she even began to breathe

1061
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:53.960
on her own. We'll be back after a break.

1062
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:04.400
On Saturday, May third, David was laid to rest. Despite

1063
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:09.320
the tragedy that had unfolded, two hundred people attended his funeral. Still,

1064
00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:12.320
it was far from the hometown heroes farewell he might

1065
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:15.880
have once received. Many officers came, but none were their

1066
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:20.320
dress blues. Hailey and David Junior were not present. David's

1067
00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:23.639
family was heartbroken and in denial that their son was

1068
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:28.159
a flawed evil man. Jean Bram spoke the stress and

1069
00:56:28.199 --> 00:56:32.400
depression he was feeling after the divorce proceedings became insurmountable

1070
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.079
and he could no longer endure the problems. His brilliant

1071
00:56:36.199 --> 00:56:40.039
mind snapped. I'm not highly educated, but i'm his father

1072
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:42.920
and I am proud of him. Every One can believe

1073
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:46.039
what they want to believe, said Jane Brazzle, David's sister.

1074
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:49.000
But the Brain family knows the truth. He was an

1075
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:51.960
angel on earth and now he is an angel in heaven.

1076
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:54.639
Oh that seems a bit much, yeah, I'll say.

1077
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:59.039
But many Tacoma police officers were angry detective Jim Matthis,

1078
00:56:59.320 --> 00:57:02.920
the departments spokesperson, said, he's left us an awfully big

1079
00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:05.800
mess to clean up. Fingers were pointed as to who

1080
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:09.599
should have seen the warning signs. Self published Fedora wearing

1081
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:12.840
journalist John Hathaway took heat for the way he released

1082
00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:15.480
his article. But the truth is it wasn't his fault.

1083
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:18.920
It wasn't anyone's fault. David bram was a powder keg.

1084
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:23.039
Eventually he was bound to explode. If it wasn't Hathaway's article,

1085
00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:25.000
something else might have sent him off.

1086
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:27.159
I mean, it wasn't anyone's fault, but he should not

1087
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:29.280
have been appointed chief of police.

1088
00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:33.440
Very good point. To save her own reputation as rumors

1089
00:57:33.440 --> 00:57:36.400
swirled around the department that she'd had an affair with David.

1090
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:40.280
Under the advice of Catherine Woodard, Linda Watson filed a

1091
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:46.000
posthumous sexual harassment suit against David Brame, which catapulted an

1092
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:50.599
investigation into his sexual exploits. Investigators were led to a

1093
00:57:50.639 --> 00:57:55.360
swingers club called New Horizons in Linwood, Washington, about an

1094
00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:58.639
hour from Tacoma. It was rumored that several officers from

1095
00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:01.880
the Tacoma Police Department were members, but there was no

1096
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:05.320
proof that Christal and David had ever been members. It

1097
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:08.719
was discovered that city manager Ray Corpus was having an

1098
00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:12.679
affair with another high ranking city official, and Catherine Woodard

1099
00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:17.079
too was intertwined in a ten year long affair. Both

1100
00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:20.760
were married to other people. Woodard and Linda Watson Vehema

1101
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:25.519
Lee deny any involvement with David Brame. Most police departments

1102
00:58:25.639 --> 00:58:30.079
require officer candidates to take a psychological evaluation before they

1103
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:34.719
are hired. When Jeanette, David's former assistant, was going through paperwork,

1104
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:39.159
she came across David's psychological evaluation from nineteen eighty one.

1105
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:43.239
He'd failed, but somehow he managed to become an officer.

1106
00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:47.519
Woodard released the information to the media, knowing how bad

1107
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:49.840
it would make them look, but she still felt like

1108
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.840
she should release this information. The question arose, who had

1109
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:56.960
been covering up for Brain for so many years and why?

1110
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.960
But further investigation revealed that Brame had offered a second

1111
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:05.519
evaluation after failing the first, which was within the department's protocol.

1112
00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:10.199
In David's file, doctor James Shaw wrote in November nineteen

1113
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:13.239
eighty one, it appears that mister Brain is a marginal

1114
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:16.760
police officer applicant and the prognosis for his developing into

1115
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:19.920
an above average officer is judged poor at this time.

1116
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:23.320
While this examiner would not recommend mister Brain be hired

1117
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:26.840
as a police officer, he does not display the pathology

1118
00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:31.599
or history which would result in his rejection. Wow, so

1119
00:59:31.719 --> 00:59:36.960
technically he hadn't failed it, but he wasn't recommended with recommendation.

1120
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:41.320
So one of the officers who had interviewed David initially

1121
00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:44.679
wrote the following after meeting him and assessing him. This

1122
00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:47.599
was also found in his file later. Brame is a

1123
00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:50.840
very quiet individual who speaks only when it is of

1124
00:59:50.960 --> 00:59:54.519
interest to him. His introvert type of personality and lack

1125
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:57.679
of life's experiences make it very doubtful that he will

1126
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:02.480
survive probation. David Brain does not socialize with anyone his age.

1127
01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:08.039
Davidson felt David Brame hinged on antisocial behavior. So why

1128
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:12.000
was David hired, quickly promoted through the ranks and eventually

1129
01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:15.599
made chief A great question. So there was actually a

1130
01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:20.199
third psychological evaluation given to him, and he did pass

1131
01:00:20.239 --> 01:00:24.719
that one, so wow, very strange situation. Before the dust

1132
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:27.679
had even settled on the Brain scandal, Tacoma faced another

1133
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:32.119
high profile controversy involving city manager Ray Corpus and his wife.

1134
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:34.800
It had been involved in a twenty three thousand dollars

1135
01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:38.639
insurance fraud case, one that David Brahm helped cover up

1136
01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:42.280
keeping it out of the media. That favor likely played

1137
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:46.119
a role in Corpus's later promoting Brame as police chief

1138
01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:51.360
over more qualified candidates boy The investigation continued into Catherine

1139
01:00:51.400 --> 01:00:54.880
Woodard days after David's death. It was determined that she'd

1140
01:00:54.880 --> 01:00:59.239
acted inappropriately, and she was placed on administrative leave. She

1141
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:04.119
left her career law enforcement behind. Although Cristel had made steady,

1142
01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:08.039
hopeful progress, she spiked a fever on Friday May second.

1143
01:01:08.559 --> 01:01:12.719
Her condition deteriorated overnight, and by morning she had no

1144
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:13.440
brain function.

1145
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:14.480
Oh Man.

1146
01:01:14.679 --> 01:01:17.440
She died at four forty pm, at nearly the same

1147
01:01:17.480 --> 01:01:20.760
time that David was lowered into his grave. The community

1148
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:24.199
that had hoped and prayed for her recovery was devastated

1149
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:26.400
by her death, but no one felt the loss more

1150
01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:29.840
deeply than her family. The next morning, in the Tacoma

1151
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:33.239
News Tribune, next to an article announcing Cristel's death, was

1152
01:01:33.280 --> 01:01:37.719
another article written with the headline in her own words, No, Dave,

1153
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:41.800
I want to leave Brame. Accuser speaks out. It was

1154
01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:44.920
Sally Master's story out in the open for the public

1155
01:01:44.960 --> 01:01:47.599
to read. She'd come forward to tell her truth that

1156
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:50.960
years earlier, David Bram had raped her. As the community

1157
01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:53.920
reeled from Cristel's death, Sally's voice rose from the past,

1158
01:01:54.280 --> 01:01:57.800
painting an even darker picture of David Brame. Had Cristel

1159
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:00.880
been alive to read it, she might have had a validation.

1160
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:04.920
Someone was finally telling the truth about David's violence and control.

1161
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:08.280
After years of being gas lid. This was proof that

1162
01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:11.960
she was an unstable or to blame. David had been

1163
01:02:12.039 --> 01:02:16.400
calculated and manipulative. She was his victim, not the other

1164
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:19.920
way around. When Cristel was laid to rest on May tenth,

1165
01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:22.599
more than six hundred people attended her funeral. It was

1166
01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:25.679
a gut wrenching service for a beloved woman. There wasn't

1167
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:27.920
a dry eye in the church During the slide show

1168
01:02:27.960 --> 01:02:32.360
of her life. Cristel's tombstone reads Crystal's yet Judson. Her

1169
01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:35.239
family chose to leave off Brame, freeing her from the

1170
01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:37.880
name of the man who took her life. I know

1171
01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:41.440
you're wondering about the kids that Judson's had a strong

1172
01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:44.400
support network. It made sure that Haley and David received

1173
01:02:44.440 --> 01:02:48.159
the care, love, therapy, and stability they needed. They stayed

1174
01:02:48.159 --> 01:02:50.760
with their grandparents for a few months. That's where they'd

1175
01:02:50.800 --> 01:02:53.840
been living comfortably before their parents' deaths. But when they

1176
01:02:53.840 --> 01:02:57.039
were ready, Julie and Dave, who didn't have any biological

1177
01:02:57.159 --> 01:03:00.679
children of their own, became their legal guardian and changed

1178
01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:03.960
their last name to Judson. Beverly and Jean Brame were

1179
01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:06.840
not given visitation rites at the time. It was to

1180
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:09.480
be revisited again in the future. I'm not sure what

1181
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:13.000
happened there. Jean claimed that Crystal pushed David to the

1182
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:16.400
brink of his sanity, causing him to implode. There was

1183
01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:19.079
never before in the annals of law and justice been

1184
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:22.800
a crime built on such lies and false allegations. I

1185
01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:26.719
hope his tormentors are happy now today Haley is thirty

1186
01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:29.440
and David twenty eight. I think they both still live

1187
01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:32.320
in Washington. I really didn't try to find much about them.

1188
01:03:33.079 --> 01:03:34.960
I hope they're doing well, but I imagine what they

1189
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:37.679
saw in April twenty six, two thousand and three, forever

1190
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:38.360
changed them.

1191
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:39.119
I'm sure it did.

1192
01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:42.800
Crystal Judson brain was more than headlines that followed her death.

1193
01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:45.639
More than a victim, she was a devoted mother, daughter, sister,

1194
01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:48.840
and friend. Crystal adored being a mom to Haley and David.

1195
01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:51.599
They were her heart and her purpose. She dreamed of

1196
01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:55.159
rebuilding her life, finding peace, and creating a safe, loving

1197
01:03:55.239 --> 01:03:58.199
home for her children. Patty and Lane filed a wrongful

1198
01:03:58.280 --> 01:04:01.159
death lawsuit against the city of Deacoma and one twelve

1199
01:04:01.159 --> 01:04:04.960
million dollars. As part of the settlement, her family negotiated

1200
01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:09.280
the Crystal Judson Family Justice Center be created in her honor.

1201
01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:12.480
A plaque in the lobby honors her memory. It reads,

1202
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:15.679
dedicated to the memory of Crystal Judson, may all who

1203
01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:20.119
walk through these doors find strength, courage, and hope. Crystales

1204
01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:24.320
on through the work of the CJFJC, which helps survivors

1205
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:28.199
of domestic violence find safety, support and hope, ensuring that

1206
01:04:28.280 --> 01:04:32.679
Crystal's light continues to shine. Rest in peace, Crystal. Here's

1207
01:04:32.719 --> 01:04:35.480
a clip featuring some of the work that the center does.

1208
01:04:36.199 --> 01:04:39.719
The hope in creating this center was to provide a

1209
01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:42.880
place where a victim could walk through one door, tell

1210
01:04:42.920 --> 01:04:46.599
their story ones and access an array of services, bringing

1211
01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:50.599
together professionals, both from the government side and the nonprofit side.

1212
01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:53.800
Over thirty thousand people have been touched by the center,

1213
01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:56.599
have been able to walk through that door and meet

1214
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.199
with somebody and share their story and come out the

1215
01:04:59.199 --> 01:05:01.880
other side and to get that help and support that

1216
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:04.239
they need in a time of crisis and be treated

1217
01:05:04.280 --> 01:05:05.800
with dignity and respect.

1218
01:05:06.440 --> 01:05:07.519
How amazing is that?

1219
01:05:08.039 --> 01:05:10.960
It really is. I've said it before, but I'm just

1220
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.800
so amazed when people take such a horrible tragedy and

1221
01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:16.079
turn it into something that helps other people.

1222
01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:19.360
It helps the whole community, And nothing touches me more

1223
01:05:19.679 --> 01:05:24.079
than that generosity and spirit that endures.

1224
01:05:24.119 --> 01:05:25.960
It's just, yeah, it's really amazing.

1225
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:30.199
I can't wait to donate to that cause in Crystal's memory. Absolutely,

1226
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:34.000
for many women, the person sworn to protect their community

1227
01:05:34.119 --> 01:05:36.119
becomes the one that they are for most in their

1228
01:05:36.159 --> 01:05:39.360
own home. Studies showed that domestic violence occurs in law

1229
01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:42.400
enforcement families at rates up to four times higher than

1230
01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:46.480
in the general population. About forty percent of police families

1231
01:05:46.559 --> 01:05:51.400
report domestic violence, compared with roughly ten percent of families overall.

1232
01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:54.079
Both of those statistics are staggering to me. I mean,

1233
01:05:54.159 --> 01:05:57.920
ten percent is far too high. Yeah, households where the

1234
01:05:57.960 --> 01:06:01.039
officer is female, the rates appear so somewhat lower, those

1235
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:04.800
still higher than the national average estimated around eighteen percent.

1236
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:09.320
It's a staggering statistic that raises uncomfortable questions. Is the

1237
01:06:09.400 --> 01:06:12.880
cause the nature of the job, the stress, the long hours,

1238
01:06:12.920 --> 01:06:16.440
exposure to trauma and constant conflict, or does the profession

1239
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:21.119
itself attract individuals already prone to control violence and aggression.

1240
01:06:21.679 --> 01:06:25.679
The culture of toxic masculinity, authority and command can easily

1241
01:06:25.679 --> 01:06:28.639
spill over from the street into the living room, and

1242
01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:31.599
for spouse is trapped in that situation, where can they

1243
01:06:31.639 --> 01:06:34.679
turn for help? Who do you call when your abuser

1244
01:06:34.920 --> 01:06:38.840
is the police? Too often reports are ignored, quietly, dismissed,

1245
01:06:38.920 --> 01:06:41.159
or buried under the weight of the blue wall of

1246
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:44.039
silence when fellow officers look the other way out of

1247
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:48.960
loyalty or fear of retaliation. Victims are left feeling isolated, powerless,

1248
01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:52.559
and convinced that no one will believe them. Their abusers

1249
01:06:52.639 --> 01:06:56.360
use the police training in their abuse tactics, service weapons

1250
01:06:56.400 --> 01:07:00.280
to threaten them and department resources to track them, use

1251
01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:03.760
their knowledge of the system to make reports, preempting their

1252
01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:08.440
partner's ability to make a complaint. Diane Wettendorf, a national

1253
01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:12.360
expert in police domestic violence, told the Seattle Times the

1254
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:16.760
victim is afraid of retaliation, of losing financial support. It's

1255
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:19.480
a last resort for them to do anything like make

1256
01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:24.320
an official complaint. Police departments have historically handled these cases poorly.

1257
01:07:24.880 --> 01:07:28.360
Some send the officer to counseling or anger management. Others

1258
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:31.559
simply transfer them to a new precinct, hoping the problem

1259
01:07:31.639 --> 01:07:35.880
will disappear. It rarely does, And for Crystal, the stakes

1260
01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:39.159
were even higher. Her husband wasn't just a police officer,

1261
01:07:39.519 --> 01:07:43.159
he was the chief of police. After Crystal's murder, twenty

1262
01:07:43.239 --> 01:07:47.679
wives or girlfriends of other Tacoma officers came forward reporting

1263
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:50.800
abuse from their partners. I don't know how we make

1264
01:07:50.840 --> 01:07:56.000
this situation better, but November is Men's Mental Health Awareness Month,

1265
01:07:56.480 --> 01:07:59.119
and I think that's one place where we start. We

1266
01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:02.000
put men in these jobs, and they see so many

1267
01:08:02.000 --> 01:08:05.840
horrific things, and I think they need more help, you know,

1268
01:08:05.880 --> 01:08:08.760
they need more resources that are available to them.

1269
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:11.559
Yeah. Well, it was interesting you talked about, like, you know,

1270
01:08:11.639 --> 01:08:13.400
it's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Is it

1271
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:17.680
that the job causes these officers to you know, because

1272
01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:20.039
they go through so much trauma that that sort of

1273
01:08:20.119 --> 01:08:22.479
drives the violence. Or is it the other way around?

1274
01:08:22.600 --> 01:08:26.000
Is the job attract people who are looking for power

1275
01:08:26.159 --> 01:08:30.319
and control and maybe more prone to that, And yeah,

1276
01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:31.800
I think it's I think it's a little both it.

1277
01:08:31.880 --> 01:08:35.199
I think like training and resources certainly is part of

1278
01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:35.680
the answer.

1279
01:08:35.840 --> 01:08:37.800
And I don't want this to seem like I'm picking

1280
01:08:37.800 --> 01:08:40.560
on police officers. There's so many people that are really

1281
01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:42.760
doing great work that are in the job for the

1282
01:08:42.840 --> 01:08:45.640
right reason. But there's also people that aren't, you know,

1283
01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:46.279
in the job for.

1284
01:08:46.239 --> 01:08:48.800
The right right and they are in a really tough job,

1285
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:51.800
you know, they they deal with a lot of things

1286
01:08:51.800 --> 01:08:53.960
that I'm glad I don't have to deal with, and

1287
01:08:53.960 --> 01:08:56.720
that are very traumatizing, I'm sure, And I.

1288
01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:00.319
Think oftentimes their training is minimal for what they what

1289
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:01.800
we asked them to do, right.

1290
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:04.239
But at the same time, you know, we need to

1291
01:09:04.239 --> 01:09:06.760
do a better job of you know, he was tested,

1292
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:11.000
failed the psychological testing and then tested again and you

1293
01:09:11.039 --> 01:09:13.640
know barely passed. So we need to do a better

1294
01:09:13.720 --> 01:09:16.239
job of, you know, ensuring that the wrong people don't

1295
01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:18.000
get into those positions as well.

1296
01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:20.920
So we have to talk about something that is going

1297
01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:24.199
to make you possibly mad and maybe make a lot

1298
01:09:24.239 --> 01:09:27.920
of people uncomfortable. Rod Baker was one of the only

1299
01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:31.439
eyewitnesses that was in the parking lot that day, and

1300
01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:34.199
he heard the gun shots and he said that there

1301
01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:37.399
was no more than two seconds between the two gun shots.

1302
01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:41.039
He believed that Crystal fell to the ground after the

1303
01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:41.800
second shot.

1304
01:09:41.960 --> 01:09:42.399
Mm hmmm.

1305
01:09:42.560 --> 01:09:45.239
And I had kind of said that before, Yeah, So

1306
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:48.720
we had talked about a lot of the forensic evidence

1307
01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:52.199
went away with Crystal and David when they went to

1308
01:09:52.239 --> 01:09:55.239
the hospital, and it made it really difficult for crime

1309
01:09:55.319 --> 01:09:59.319
scene investigators to piece together what happened. So the police

1310
01:09:59.359 --> 01:10:03.279
investigator thought that David shot Crystal and then himself. With

1311
01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:08.079
this eyewitness thought was that David shot himself and that

1312
01:10:08.199 --> 01:10:11.560
Crystal was trying to grab the gun from him. He

1313
01:10:11.720 --> 01:10:13.760
was like, he was in the seat of the car

1314
01:10:13.800 --> 01:10:17.600
and she was kind of kneeling near him, and glocks,

1315
01:10:17.720 --> 01:10:19.880
which was the gun used at the scene, are known

1316
01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:25.079
for going off a light trigger pulling exactly. And he

1317
01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:28.399
was saying that he was sure that Crystal fell to

1318
01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:31.079
the ground after the second shot. So he thought that

1319
01:10:31.159 --> 01:10:34.119
again that David took his own life and Crystal was

1320
01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:37.359
trying to pull the gun away from him and accidentally

1321
01:10:37.479 --> 01:10:39.840
shot herself. Okay, what do you think about that?

1322
01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:43.119
I mean, I suppose it's possible, but I also think

1323
01:10:43.159 --> 01:10:46.960
that a things happened like that in a split second,

1324
01:10:47.039 --> 01:10:49.680
and you know, it can't be one hundred percent like

1325
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:52.479
exactly what he saw and the right timing he saw

1326
01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:56.199
it in and b if David shot Crystal first and

1327
01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:59.159
then shot himself, it's certainly feasible that it would have

1328
01:10:59.199 --> 01:11:01.800
taken her two seconds to fall to the ground. Right,

1329
01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:04.520
she might have gotten shot and just you know, froze

1330
01:11:04.600 --> 01:11:07.640
and then fell to the ground two seconds later. I

1331
01:11:07.720 --> 01:11:11.119
just think with that timeline being so quick, I don't

1332
01:11:11.119 --> 01:11:12.199
think we can say for sure.

1333
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:15.159
No, of course we can't, and we'll never know exactly

1334
01:11:15.159 --> 01:11:19.159
what happened, and it's frustrating that there were no surveillance cameras. Yeah,

1335
01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:21.159
I think given the situation.

1336
01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:23.760
I think, given David's history, given everything, I think the

1337
01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:26.720
assumption is a pretty good one that he shot her.

1338
01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:31.079
Yeah. People have criticized Crystal for not filing any official

1339
01:11:31.119 --> 01:11:34.159
police reports against David. Do you think that that could

1340
01:11:34.199 --> 01:11:37.239
have made a difference or would it have made things worse?

1341
01:11:37.279 --> 01:11:38.720
I don't think it would have made a difference. It

1342
01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:40.680
might have made things worse, but I mean, she did

1343
01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:43.800
try to get an order of protection, right, she did

1344
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:47.000
right before it happened, so I don't think filing a

1345
01:11:47.039 --> 01:11:49.600
police report probably would have made.

1346
01:11:49.600 --> 01:11:52.279
The one thing that would have done, though, was when

1347
01:11:52.359 --> 01:11:54.880
David said, oh, I was the one that was abused

1348
01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:58.520
in the relationship. She would have been able to say, yeah, yeah,

1349
01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:01.279
I suppose. Why do you think that Crystal followed David

1350
01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:02.600
into the parking lot that day.

1351
01:12:02.800 --> 01:12:05.560
I don't know, It's just baffling. I mean, obviously she

1352
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:08.520
had something she wanted to maybe confront him about, but.

1353
01:12:08.640 --> 01:12:10.640
It seems she just wanted to see the kids too

1354
01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:13.479
and just say hi. And I think in that situation,

1355
01:12:14.039 --> 01:12:15.720
you know, I would just want to you know, it

1356
01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:17.880
would be great to see the kids and give him

1357
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:19.359
a hug and say hey, guys, what's up.

1358
01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:21.800
Yeah, but it just seemed it seems strange though, given

1359
01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:24.000
the fact that she had just you know, sent a

1360
01:12:24.039 --> 01:12:27.479
note to her lawyer about the order of protection. So

1361
01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:30.960
it just seems weird that she would then turn around and.

1362
01:12:31.119 --> 01:12:33.000
It's a public, public parking lot.

1363
01:12:33.319 --> 01:12:34.239
Yeah, it still is.

1364
01:12:34.479 --> 01:12:37.079
You know, she he had the kids with him, and

1365
01:12:37.399 --> 01:12:39.800
she probably didn't realize that he had the gun with him.

1366
01:12:40.279 --> 01:12:43.079
Do you think that it was premeditated in any way?

1367
01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:45.119
Like I said that he laid out the dark suit,

1368
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:48.920
he'd written the Bible passages. That was strange to me

1369
01:12:49.079 --> 01:12:51.920
because I don't think that he would have killed her

1370
01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:53.159
in front of the children.

1371
01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:55.800
Yeah, that is really strange. And the fact that he

1372
01:12:55.880 --> 01:12:59.319
kind of ran into her, you know, happenstances, sort of

1373
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:02.520
makes it seem like maybe it wasn't Maybe he had

1374
01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:04.159
just planned on ending his own life.

1375
01:13:04.439 --> 01:13:07.520
Do you think that David was involved with any other women.

1376
01:13:08.479 --> 01:13:10.039
It's hard for you to answer that. Because I'm the

1377
01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:11.640
one who did the research and read the book.

1378
01:13:11.840 --> 01:13:13.840
I have to believe he was. I mean, it just

1379
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:17.279
seems like when he got into the chief of police position,

1380
01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:20.119
the power went to his head and he seemed like

1381
01:13:20.199 --> 01:13:22.880
he was very happy to abuse that power in a

1382
01:13:22.920 --> 01:13:26.119
lot of ways. And I wouldn't you know, it wouldn't

1383
01:13:26.159 --> 01:13:27.479
be at all surprising if he did.

1384
01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:31.079
There's no evidence that he did. For some reason, Catherine

1385
01:13:31.079 --> 01:13:34.439
Woodard seems a little shady to me. Oh yeah, she

1386
01:13:34.720 --> 01:13:37.159
seems really involved with David. I don't know if that

1387
01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:39.880
was just because she wanted to advance her career or

1388
01:13:40.079 --> 01:13:41.600
she was trying to be a good friend.

1389
01:13:41.840 --> 01:13:43.640
But yeah, it does make you wonder.

1390
01:13:43.960 --> 01:13:46.119
Yeah, but there was no one that came forward that

1391
01:13:46.199 --> 01:13:48.520
said that they were involved with David and the level

1392
01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:51.119
of devastation, if that's what you want to call it,

1393
01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:54.479
after Crystal filed for divorce, I don't think he had

1394
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:57.600
like room in his brain to have a girlfriend.

1395
01:13:57.920 --> 01:14:02.279
Yeah. I mean, he's clearly heartbroken over her leaving him.

1396
01:14:02.520 --> 01:14:05.119
I have one last question for you. It's about gossip

1397
01:14:05.119 --> 01:14:08.079
in the workplace. Do we have a moral obligation to

1398
01:14:08.319 --> 01:14:11.720
stay silent when what we hear could hurt someone? Like

1399
01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:13.720
in this story, it seemed like there was like a

1400
01:14:13.760 --> 01:14:17.560
lot of rumors floating around the police station, right, And

1401
01:14:18.159 --> 01:14:20.920
when we hear gossip, we can't wait to talk about it,

1402
01:14:21.399 --> 01:14:23.920
especially if it's really salacious, like, oh, the boss is

1403
01:14:23.960 --> 01:14:27.479
having an affair with the you know, assistant chief. Should

1404
01:14:27.520 --> 01:14:31.479
we keep our mouths shut and you know, not perpetuate

1405
01:14:31.560 --> 01:14:32.039
the gossip.

1406
01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:34.039
Boy, that's just a tough one.

1407
01:14:34.079 --> 01:14:35.680
But I don't want to call you out, but you

1408
01:14:35.800 --> 01:14:37.399
love to go You're a gossip.

1409
01:14:37.960 --> 01:14:40.439
I think most people like to gossip. Yeah, that's a

1410
01:14:40.479 --> 01:14:43.600
tough one, because it's not just gossip. It's a situation

1411
01:14:43.680 --> 01:14:48.520
of a person in power potentially abusing that power and putting.

1412
01:14:48.199 --> 01:14:51.319
Themselves in a cous I met more generally, Yeah.

1413
01:14:51.159 --> 01:14:55.119
Generally, I mean, if the gossip is not harmful, you know,

1414
01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:58.359
if it only involves two people, then I guess, yeah,

1415
01:14:58.840 --> 01:15:02.079
I don't know, that's it really on the specific situation.

1416
01:15:02.199 --> 01:15:05.159
I think when I was in high school, I worked

1417
01:15:05.159 --> 01:15:07.840
with a lot of people and I had a crush

1418
01:15:07.920 --> 01:15:11.039
on this one guy, and he was really flirty with everyone.

1419
01:15:11.439 --> 01:15:14.239
And there was a married lady and I think, I

1420
01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:17.159
don't think I started the gossip, but they were so

1421
01:15:17.239 --> 01:15:19.279
flirty it seemed like there might have been something going on.

1422
01:15:19.880 --> 01:15:22.279
And she cornered me one day and she was like,

1423
01:15:22.479 --> 01:15:26.119
little missy, I hear that you're spreading gossip about me.

1424
01:15:26.359 --> 01:15:29.359
And I've never forgotten that because she was right, like

1425
01:15:29.399 --> 01:15:32.760
I had no right to say anything about her marriage

1426
01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:35.119
or what she was doing. And you know, it was

1427
01:15:35.119 --> 01:15:37.920
a really uncomfortable situation. But I learned from that that

1428
01:15:38.000 --> 01:15:41.640
if the gossip that you hold can really harm someone's life,

1429
01:15:41.760 --> 01:15:43.359
you should probably hold your tongue.

1430
01:15:43.439 --> 01:15:45.560
I had a very similar situation when I was in

1431
01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:47.760
high school, I worked in a restaurant and one of

1432
01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:49.560
the waitresses I worked with, who I was friends with,

1433
01:15:49.680 --> 01:15:52.680
told me something and I told it to someone else.

1434
01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:55.560
And when I told it to someone else, I turned

1435
01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:57.920
around and she was standing there. She heard the whole thing.

1436
01:15:58.239 --> 01:16:01.800
Oh it was so horrible because I was like caught

1437
01:16:01.960 --> 01:16:05.000
in the act of spreading gossip about her. And then

1438
01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:08.359
what did you do? I mean, I just apologized profusely,

1439
01:16:08.399 --> 01:16:12.720
and she was really really angry, hopefully so oh totally.

1440
01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:15.119
So I wrote her a long note and left it

1441
01:16:15.119 --> 01:16:17.760
on her time card the next day, and eventually, you know,

1442
01:16:17.800 --> 01:16:19.920
we got past it, but we were never friends again,

1443
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:22.680
and we had been friends and then that was over.

1444
01:16:22.880 --> 01:16:25.119
That's too bad. Yeah, it sounds like you learned a lesson.

1445
01:16:25.159 --> 01:16:27.439
Well not really because you've told me, because when it

1446
01:16:27.479 --> 01:16:30.119
comes to your spouse, that's another question. Should you tell

1447
01:16:30.159 --> 01:16:31.880
your spouse all the gossip? You know?

1448
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:35.359
I think I'm normally I'm pretty good at keeping like secrets.

1449
01:16:35.399 --> 01:16:39.000
But I think with you, I tell you more for sure.

1450
01:16:38.960 --> 01:16:41.079
Than you don't tell me everything. What are you holding

1451
01:16:41.119 --> 01:16:41.319
on to?

1452
01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:44.880
I think I tell you most everything.

1453
01:16:44.760 --> 01:16:48.800
Most everything. Now I'm curious, but you're holding back from me.

1454
01:16:49.199 --> 01:16:50.199
Nothing you need to know.

1455
01:16:50.439 --> 01:16:53.279
I do want to give a shout out to Paul LaRosa,

1456
01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:57.560
who wrote the book Tacoma Confidential, a true story of murder, suicide,

1457
01:16:57.800 --> 01:17:01.159
and a police chief's secret life. It was written in

1458
01:17:01.159 --> 01:17:03.880
two thousand and six. It was a great book. I

1459
01:17:03.920 --> 01:17:07.279
really enjoyed it, and it was so thorough that I

1460
01:17:07.359 --> 01:17:10.520
didn't have to do a ton of outside research. So

1461
01:17:10.880 --> 01:17:13.840
really really wonderful book. Right, well done, Well, thank you

1462
01:17:13.880 --> 01:17:16.720
so much for listening. That was a heartbreaking case.

1463
01:17:16.840 --> 01:17:17.560
It sure was.

1464
01:17:23.520 --> 01:17:25.439
Right before we go, I wanted to talk about Thanksgiving

1465
01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:27.640
a little bit. I think of this every year, but

1466
01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:31.560
I hope that you're listening to this episode and maybe

1467
01:17:31.600 --> 01:17:33.560
you might be taking a walk because you're a mother

1468
01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:35.920
in law doesn't like the way you make the braby

1469
01:17:36.039 --> 01:17:36.720
or whatever it is.

1470
01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:38.720
But it could be a very stressful time for a

1471
01:17:38.720 --> 01:17:39.319
lot of people.

1472
01:17:39.479 --> 01:17:42.039
Yeah, it's not easy. It's not always easy, but we

1473
01:17:42.039 --> 01:17:44.199
hope you're having a great day. I have some would

1474
01:17:44.199 --> 01:17:47.560
you rather Thanksgiving questions for you? It's okay, are you ready?

1475
01:17:48.119 --> 01:17:49.439
Probably not, but go for it.

1476
01:17:49.479 --> 01:17:52.520
Would you rather eat only turkey or only side dishes

1477
01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:53.680
for the rest of your life?

1478
01:17:53.800 --> 01:17:58.399
The rest of my life? Yeah, I guess only side

1479
01:17:58.399 --> 01:17:59.960
dishes because there'd be a little more of a.

1480
01:18:00.960 --> 01:18:03.840
Yeah, true, definitely. Would you rather do all the cooking

1481
01:18:03.920 --> 01:18:04.680
or all the cleanup?

1482
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:07.159
I'd probably rather do the cooking.

1483
01:18:07.600 --> 01:18:09.000
Would you rather have pumpkin or.

1484
01:18:09.239 --> 01:18:10.880
You have to answer that too, Oh.

1485
01:18:10.760 --> 01:18:13.239
I'd rather do that. Well, I usually usually do both,

1486
01:18:13.319 --> 01:18:17.119
but tell I absolutely help.

1487
01:18:17.520 --> 01:18:19.720
Help, but you don't do all the cleanup. You do

1488
01:18:20.039 --> 01:18:22.439
all the cooking or most most all the cooking.

1489
01:18:22.560 --> 01:18:26.920
Uh huh. Would you rather have pumpkin pieory apple pie?

1490
01:18:27.079 --> 01:18:28.000
Apple pie? Yeah?

1491
01:18:28.119 --> 01:18:29.279
He hates pumpkin pie.

1492
01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:30.079
What's your answer?

1493
01:18:31.399 --> 01:18:34.600
Pumpkin on Thanksgiving? For sure? Would you rather skip turkey

1494
01:18:34.680 --> 01:18:36.079
or skip the mashed potatoes?

1495
01:18:36.560 --> 01:18:38.800
Yeah? Oh boy, that's a tough one because I love both.

1496
01:18:39.039 --> 01:18:40.920
I would rather skip the turkey. I think I would

1497
01:18:40.920 --> 01:18:42.760
take Well, if there's gravy, Yeah, there's got to be

1498
01:18:42.800 --> 01:18:45.920
gravy and dumplings. Maybe I'll make dumplings. I don't normally

1499
01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:48.680
make dumplings. But would you rather fight off a turkey

1500
01:18:48.720 --> 01:18:51.159
the size of a bear or a hundred bears the

1501
01:18:51.239 --> 01:18:52.159
size of turkeys?

1502
01:18:53.159 --> 01:18:55.600
I think a hundred bears the size of turkeys. I

1503
01:18:55.640 --> 01:18:56.479
think I could take them.

1504
01:18:56.720 --> 01:18:58.439
I don't think you could a.

1505
01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:01.199
Bear sized turkey, though, that would be That would be terrifying.

1506
01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:03.640
Some of these are so silly. Would you rather have

1507
01:19:03.720 --> 01:19:05.680
to gobble like a turkey every time you walk? Or

1508
01:19:05.800 --> 01:19:07.119
wattle everywhere you go?

1509
01:19:08.720 --> 01:19:09.319
Swattle?

1510
01:19:10.039 --> 01:19:11.119
I would go gobble?

1511
01:19:11.760 --> 01:19:12.720
A bad choice.

1512
01:19:13.199 --> 01:19:16.680
Would you rather eat your entire meal without utensils or

1513
01:19:16.720 --> 01:19:21.439
without talking? You'd probably rather without talking.

1514
01:19:22.119 --> 01:19:23.600
Yeah, either one's fine with me.

1515
01:19:26.359 --> 01:19:29.000
Would you rather have to put gravy on dessert or

1516
01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:30.279
whipped cream on turkey?

1517
01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:34.000
Uh? Probably?

1518
01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:36.800
Would you rather have no leftovers or be stuck eating

1519
01:19:36.920 --> 01:19:38.479
only leftovers for a week?

1520
01:19:38.640 --> 01:19:40.359
Oh? Only leftovers would be fine.

1521
01:19:40.520 --> 01:19:42.520
Really, I'm going no leftover?

1522
01:19:42.720 --> 01:19:45.800
Really? Yeah? Well, left doors are the best part of thingsgiving.

1523
01:19:46.239 --> 01:19:47.479
What do you like to eat? Leftover?

1524
01:19:47.680 --> 01:19:50.199
Every turkey sandwich? Turkey sandwich on a.

1525
01:19:50.399 --> 01:19:52.800
Right turkey sandwich. That's it? Like that's the only thing I.

1526
01:19:52.800 --> 01:19:55.359
Want left pretty much? Anything leftover?

1527
01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:58.479
Yeah, okay. Would you rather wear a pilgrim hat to

1528
01:19:58.520 --> 01:20:02.199
work all week or e turkey costume on Thanksgiving Day?

1529
01:20:02.239 --> 01:20:02.920
Oh that's easy.

1530
01:20:03.000 --> 01:20:04.720
Well see, and seeing as I work from home, I

1531
01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:06.319
would wear the Pilgrims out.

1532
01:20:07.159 --> 01:20:10.079
Really, I would wear a turkey costume on Thanksgiving Day

1533
01:20:10.079 --> 01:20:14.079
because that is it would be pretty awesome. Yeah awesome. Well,

1534
01:20:14.159 --> 01:20:17.079
I am grateful for you. I'm grateful for our listener that.

1535
01:20:17.079 --> 01:20:20.600
I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving our American listeners.

1536
01:20:20.680 --> 01:20:22.079
When is Canadian Thanksgiving?

1537
01:20:22.439 --> 01:20:24.399
I'm ashamed to say, I don't know.

1538
01:20:24.880 --> 01:20:27.680
It was in October. Oh, we hope you guys had

1539
01:20:27.880 --> 01:20:29.880
a nice Thanksgiving back in October.

1540
01:20:29.960 --> 01:20:32.079
Yeah. Well, I am grateful for you too, and I

1541
01:20:32.119 --> 01:20:34.039
am also grateful for all of you listening.

1542
01:20:34.359 --> 01:20:37.560
Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media,

1543
01:20:37.680 --> 01:20:41.319
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1544
01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:46.119
And remember, follow us on YouTube. YouTube episodes always drop

1545
01:20:46.279 --> 01:20:46.840
a day.

1546
01:20:46.680 --> 01:20:48.720
Early, almost always, unless I forget.

1547
01:20:48.960 --> 01:20:50.319
Oh I didn't know that.

1548
01:20:50.359 --> 01:20:53.199
I've forgotten a couple times. But consider supporting us on

1549
01:20:53.319 --> 01:20:56.640
Patreon dot com slash love Mary Kill. We have one

1550
01:20:56.680 --> 01:20:59.680
tier five dollars a month. You get early ad free access.

1551
01:20:59.760 --> 01:21:02.159
Please us a monthly bonus episode.

1552
01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:04.640
Until next time. Don't kill your wife and don't kill

1553
01:21:04.680 --> 01:21:05.239
your husband.

1554
01:21:13.319 --> 01:21:13.359
M