Crystal and David Brame - Part 2

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife. And some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina. How are you? I am doing well? How are you? I am good, and I am grateful. I'm grateful for you, and I'm grateful for all our listeners. It's Thanksgiving week? Are you exit same? I sure am. I am totally so thankful for all of our listeners and for you.

0:43 I just wanted to remind everyone really quick if you are a person that would rather get right to the case. We do have another edition of our podcast. It's still a little newer. It's the just the Facts edition. We've had a lot of people give us positive feedback on that. How do you feel about that? I think it's great. Not everyone loves banter and snap. Yeah, I totally agree. Whatever version works best for you works for us. This is totally out of the blue. But right before we started recording, I was watching a video on YouTube from Brad Bradley and remember the Amy Bradley case. Oh yeah, the cruise ship she had. She was allegedly seeing a man named Tom, and Brad talked about Tom but didn't use a last name, and it just sounded a little like it made me question that Tom existed. But there was this YouTube video. It was the first and only interview that Tom has done. Tom actually had filmed for the Amy Bradley Is Missing documentary, but for some.

1:36 Reason, they left him. They did, they did. He said that they had a real relationship. They saw each other three, four or five times a week. It was romantic, they went on dates. He was eight years older, he was in management at the restaurant that she worked at. Okay, but they were still seeing each other at the time she disappeared. Interesting, So it probably doesn't shed any more light on why she disappeared, but maybe a little more background into who she actually was. Right, and I thought that she lived her life openly as a lesbian, So I mean maybe she was more bisexual. Because Brad had said that, I mean, Tom seemed like, you know, a nice guy. I didn't really doubt what he was saying, but some of Amy's friends had doubted the realness of their relationship with this. The video that I was watching was from East Idaho News if you want to check it out. I only watched fifteen minutes of it. It's over an hour long. I probably want any more of it. But Tom does exist. Something that we talked about recently that got a lot of feedback from listeners was whether or not Tina she could a botox.

2:45 People had a lot of strong opinions either way. Some people were like, girl, you do you deserve it? You know, if it makes you feel better, do it. And other people like, why would you put toxins into your body? You moron? So, you know, very divisive, right, But our good friend and Kylie Kylie from Primetime Crime Crime with a K who I love, reached out to me and said, you know, you should try something called frownies. Frown I e s. And they're like little stickers kind of that you put on. You can put them anywhere you want, wherever you think you have wrinkles. But I've just been putting it in my It's like a little triangle and I put it right here. Do I look right between your eyebrows? Yeah?

3:25 I took a lot of eyebrow here, So that's a little problematic put And I had had them, and I had tried them, but I was like, oh, I don't really think they're doing much. But I probably consistently done it for like a week, probably maybe ten days, and I really do think it it works. Not like botox, but it really does work. So ladies, if you want to look, you know, a little more youthful for the holidays, you could try frownies. Well you still look as beautiful as ever to me, so I haven't seen a big difference. Okay, whatever, cheese ball, I did make you a snack, oh good bye, But it's not boiled peanuts. Well, okay, that's good. That also a lot of people were angry with us for not trying real boiled peanuts, so we will try that at something. I would give myself a D minus four today's effort. I'm sorry, but I know I'm tired and I still had work to do in the case.

4:23 And okay, but they are called mini jets freckles and jets are crackers in Australia, like what we call a ritz is a jets, but the rits I couldn't find the mini rits, so it's a bigger ritz. But I thought that people might like a quick, easy snack to make with their kids. So you take sprinkles or those little round ball sprinkles, and you put them on a cookie sheet, and then you put chocolate wafers. We only had vanilla, and then you put them like you line them up on your cookie sheet on top of the sprinkles. You put it in the oven like a warm oven, like three hundred for just two to three minutes, and then you pop the little crackers on top of it. So it's cute, right, Uh yeah, well.

5:05 Mine isn't as cute because my crackers are too big because I don't have Jatzer crackers. But okay, do you want to try the freckles, I'll give them a try. Sure. Did you like the freckles? Yeah, they were pretty good. Yeah, I'd give you at least a c that was more than a d minu suffer. Literally took me two minutes. Well it took you longer than just you know, picking a bag of something out of the pantry. There is a candy made in the Tacoma area called almond Roca. Tried to get it from Amazon, but I couldn't get it in time, and I couldn't find it at our store. But it looks yummy. And the other snacks from Washington were like smoked salmon and fish ptet and things like that. So anyway, sorry about the freckles.

5:48 Well, no, I think they were pretty good. I think if you were like a little kid, I think you would probably really like it. Are you ready to hear Part two of Crystal and David Brain? I am. Do you want to give us a summary? I would love to Crystal When David Bram had been married for eleven years, living in Gig Harbor, Washington with their two young children. Over time, David's controlling behavior escalated from constant arguments to physical violence. He frequently choked Cristel during fights and pressured her to join a swinger lifestyle that she wanted no part of. When David was promoted to chief of Police and Tacoma, Cristel recognized the danger his power and influence posed. Determined to reclaim her life, she filed for divorce and moved into her parents' home in a nearby gated community. Now confronted with the reality that his marriage was ending because of his own actions, David grew desperate. He wanted to keep his private life and the abuse hidden to protect his career. Yet he couldn't accept that Cristel was truly done. She, however, was resolute.

6:49 For the first time in years, she was ready to begin again without him. The change in David was immediate and stark. Jeanette Blackwell, David's assistant, was a keen observer to everything that happened at the station. The change was very dramatic in regards to his work performance, said Jeannette. He was not getting anything done. He had an excellent group of assistant chiefs that were running the department. Without them, nothing would have gotten done. Crystal filed in February, and for about two weeks it was just kind of bad because he hadn't shared too much with anyone. He was still getting stuff off his desk because I was just basically babysitting him. And then once he started sharing little bits and pieces of his divorce, he just gradually began to deteriorate. He ate, slept and drank Crystal brain. David dropped weight, stopped combing his gray hair or brushing his teeth, and he'd break down in tears at the smallest reminder of his wife.

7:45 I don't care what was going on in my life. I don't think I would stop brushing my teeth. I appreciate that he either refused to attend meetings or was extremely late. Jeanette reminded him, sometimes sharply, that he was still the chief of police and had a duty to the people of Coma, but he could barely hold himself together. He was consumed with despair over his failing marriage and terrified that Cristel might expose his darkest secrets, his most private desires. During this time, Jeannette and Assistant Chief Catherine Woodard found themselves playing the role of stand and wives, buying his groceries, scheduling his appointments, listening to his endless confessions. He was pitiful.

8:26 It is pitiful. But Katherine Woodard became more entangled than she'd intended when she called Cristel to hear her side of the story. Woodard took careful notes during the call, like a good cop would, but she realized the precariousness of the situation. Catherine told Cristel that David was not a dangerous man. He definitely wasn't having an affair, and she should consider reconciling with him. Cristel made it very clear that her marriage was over and she was ready to move on. She knew by the tone of Woodard's call that David had put her up to it. One whom Cristel had once respected and considered a friend was now an enemy and shouldn't be trusted. David was devastated when his attempt to use Catherine to persuade Cristel to give him another chance completely backfired. But Cristel she came back to life.

9:16 The spark that had been dimmed by her abusive marriage reignited. Her vibrant personality returned, her laughter came easily again for the first time in a long time. She felt hopeful about the future. She even decided to apply to law school, ready to build a new life on her terms. When Cristel was in college, she had majored in criminal justice. Cristel had never been especially close with her neighbors, but one day she struck up a conversation with neighbor Bill Kurtenbach. He noticed how different she seemed, happier, lighter, more talkative. Even her posture had improved. One afternoon, she confided in him about the years of abuse and control she'd endured, how David had monitored her every move. Now finally free from the toxic marriage. She was ready to tell her story.

10:05 I think that's something that people when they're in an abusive situation, that they like to talk about it a lot to kind of work out their trauma. Yeah, I can imagine. An entry into Cristel's journal shows how emotionally fraught David was during this time. David said he had really underappreciated me and that all the marriage problems were all his fault and he didn't blame me for leaving. He said he only wanted to be married to me and that he was a fool to want other women. He continued by saying that he had the perfect wife and the perfect life, and that he threw it all away for nothing. A court date hadn't yet been set to iron out a custody agreement, but Crystal agreed to let David have the kids for a weekend at their former home where he was still living. Haley and David Junior were upset and didn't want to go back to the house without Crystal.

10:56 David lashed out and shouted, look what you're doing to the kids. Look what you've done to our children by filing for divorce. It was enough to remind Cristel that she'd made the right decision. David hadn't changed at all. Still, part of her wanted to believe things could get better. She'd told him she'd consider giving their marriage another chance, but only if he would agree to two things, more money each week and to severtize with his mother. David refused both. He was obsessed with saving money, determined to stash away five thousand dollars a month no matter what it costs his marriage. Money was more important than saving his family, but he was spiraling. After he dropped Haley and David Junior off from their weekend together, he called Crystel and told her, you need to give me one reason why I am losing you. You will always be my true love and I will never let you go.

11:47 Do you get that, Crystal, never means never. I spent two years and three months and ten days dating you, and you leaving me will be the costliest mistake you'll ever make with me. I will always be there knocking on your door, even when you're old or away from me. I'll always be there. You'll be sorry till the day you die. Oh that is a scary statement. Right when David realized Cristal wasn't coming back. He declared war, and his favorite weapon was money. He refused to support her or the children financially. Before I give you or the children one dollar, I'll see you dead first, he snarled when Cristel told him Haley needed new shoes. David kept a meticulous journal, written in police like fragments, detailing every interaction he had with his children or Crystal. Haley called small talk about school. She said she was sick and tired of me coming to her school. I repeated that you're sick and tired of me coming to your school.

12:42 Haley said that she didn't mean that, that she forgot what she was going to say to me. Then she resumed small talk about school. In the day's events. I told her that I missed her, and she said me too. I told her that I loved her, and she said she loves me too. We then said goodbye. Small talk with David, then goodbye. That's really weird. I guess it's just his training as a police officer, but the fact that he's taking notes on just these everyday interactions. Here's the last entry in his journal, saw Cristel and her mom at Bartel's and Gig Harber made brief eye contact when she first came into the store. We did not speak. She sneered at me. I looked away as I paid for my items. The checker said I can help you next. I looked up and Cristel said okay.

13:24 She was about fifteen to twenty feet away from me. We made brief eye contact and I left the store. At no time did we speak. Despite his refusal to pay his wife any support money, Cristel allowed him to see the children. On March twenty sixth, two thousand and three. Haley, eight, had told her mother that she didn't want to sleep in the same bed as her father anymore. She didn't accuse him of anything specific. She simply said that she wanted to sleep in her own bed. Cristel was concerned for Haley and approached David cautiously. He said his favorite part of the weekend was sleeping with the children, but he begrudgingly agreed to let Haim sleep on her own. Remind me how old are the children. Haley is eight and David Junior is five. I'm not accusing him of anything, and neither did Haley, but I can understand why she would feel uncomfortable at age eight sleeping in a bed alone with her father. Our kids used to come into our bed, especially like on Sunday mornings.

14:17 I don't know until they were pretty old, but you know, for Cristel not to be there probably felt a little different. Yeah, agreed. The next day, Haley called Crystal from her grandmother Brame's house. She sounded upset and said she didn't want to be there, that her grandmother was being mean to her. Remember that Grandma Brame Beverly had once hit David. Oh Yeah. In the background, Crystal could hear David coaching her daughter, telling her to say that she was having fun. At the end of March, David rented an apartment, but didn't move in right away, choosing instead to remain in the family home. The first divorce filing was mild, carefully worded, and void of the dark truths that had played out behind closed doors.

15:00 Weeks later, Crystal submitted a supplemental declaration that laid everything bare. She detailed years of abuse, financial control, death threats, and David's disturbing sexual behavior. She wrote in the amended filing, despite having suffered through years of physical and emotional abuse from my husband. I questioned whether to pursue a personal restraining order against him. My husband is a high ranking official with the Tacoma Police Department. She also revealed that David's mother, Beverly, had once slapped their young son, and when he protested, she told him, I'll hit you any time I want, whether you like it or not. Well, that doesn't sound very grandmotherly. It doesn't. And Beverly not not a nice person. And I think everyone has. Most people have one mean grandma.

15:45 Maybe you think so. Maybe. David agreed to most of Crystal's settlement terms, even the financial ones, but he demanded the case be moved back to Pierce County, where they lived. It was a strategic move there he knew the judges and expected a more favorable ruling. A hearing to discuss the matter was set for April tenth. We talked about this in the first episode, but Crystal had filed in Seattle. She was trying to keep it a little hush hush. Yeah, and understandable that she would want it like away from where he knew all the judges of Aynthany to prove she was fit to be a parent. Crystal was evaluated by a psychiatrist. He diagnosed her with adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed mood, and said he could not yet rule out post traumatic stress disorder. He went on to write the testing results characterized Miss Brain as an insecure individual who has low self esteem, dependency issues, and is very attuned and sensitive to other people's opinion of her. These test results indicate a woman suffering from a generalized state of anxiety, tension, and apprehension. She may have been preoccupied for an extended period of time with feelings of depression, guilt, and hopelessness. She believes that she is being plotted again and that other individuals are attempting to influence her to make her believe that she is crazy.

17:05 Miss Brain also achieved testing results found in individuals who have experienced life threatening events producing intense fear or feelings of helplessness. Individuals confronted with this type of life threatening trauma often experienced chronic symptoms of anxious arousal, emotional numbing, and avoidance of circumstances associated with the trauma. The doctor made it clear Cristel was genuinely afraid for her life determined to prepare and protect herself. She signed up for an eight hour intensive self defense course taught by David Junior's karate instructor. He had created the program after learning that many of his students, when faced with real danger, froze and forgot their training. His goal was to hardwire instinctive life saving reactions punching, kicking, screaming, gouging, whatever it took to stop an attack her in their tracks. The class was scheduled for April twenty seventh. Sadly, Crystal never made why aren't.

18:01 We teaching a class like that in high school physical education? Not just for women but for boys too. Yeah, it's a really good idea. At the hearing on April tenth to discuss the venue change, David arrived flanked by three fellow officers, including Catherine Woodard, as if to intimidate his wife. Christel's parents were with her. No one made eye contact. Her attorney requested that David pay Crystal something for support since the divorce filing, he hadn't given her any money. David's attorney agreed that he would write her a check that day for two thousand dollars. He also requested extra time with the children more than the current every other weekend arrangement. It was also decided that David would not pick up the children alone when it was time for visitation. Katherine Woodard offered to act as an intermediary, but while they were discussing it, Cristel was focused on signing paperwork and didn't hear the exchange. I'm not sure I understand the significance of Crystal not hearing that exchange.

18:59 Well, put that in there for a reason, so you'll find out in a couple of minutes. Okay, I'll try to be patient. The judge wasn't ready to rule on the change of venue. He sat another court date for April twenty eight. We'll be back after a break. Although David had rented an apartment, he hadn't moved in yet. Cristel and the children were still living with her parents, and David blocked her from entering their marital home. When she asked for some clothes and her ice skates, he agreed to bring them to her On Friday, April eleventh, two thousand and three, Before picking up David, Junior and Haley, David grabbed the ice skates Crystal wanted, but when assistant chief.

19:42 Catherine Woodard arrived unarmed wearing street clothes. David asked her to grab some clothes from Crystal's closet. Later this infuriated Crystal. Then, without explanation, David popped his wedding video into the VCR and planted himself on the couch to watch it. He'd become obsessed with watching this video and had watched it on a loop since Cristel had left him. As the images of happier times played on the screen, Catherine sat beside him in uneasy silence. At five fifty pm, they left to pick up the children. Since the awkward phone call, Catherine had become a thorn in Crystel's side. They'd once been friendly, but Cristel wasn't happy with how she'd inserted herself into the difficult situation, and she couldn't rule out the possibility that Catherine and David were having an affair.

20:31 Cristel's attorney was aware that David had decided to have Catherine accompany him while picking up the children to be a witness, but the attorney hadn't told Cristel When she opened the door to find Catherine standing alongside David, Cristel erupted. Because the Judsons lived in a gated community, they'd received a call that David was on his way to their house, but they weren't expecting another person to be there. What are you doing here, Cristel said, I'm here to support David. You're just being nosy. I think you should leave. Catherine held out the bag of clothing she'd picked for Crystal and raging her further. You were in my closet. How dare you go into my house, my closet and touched my things. I would be really mad about that.

21:16 I can totally understand that. Yeah. She grabbed for the bag, and soon everyone was yelling, which upset the children as they watched the scene unfold. David and Catherine ushered the crying children to his car. Crystal followed closely behind. She kissed her children goodbye, still seething, but Crystal and her parents talked about the physical stance Catherine and David had taken on their doorstep, and felt as if they had used their authority as law enforcement to intimidate them with their presence. I think Catherine was exceptionally tall and David was tall, and you know how police can just like stand there and taken it. Kind of an aggressive stance, yea. They decided to file a report. Crystal called nine to one one and was connected with the Piers County Sheriff's apartment. We'll read part of the call.

22:02 My husband and I are going through a divorce my children. I have sole custody of the children. The issues are that I'm staying for security and safety reasons with my parents because of numerous death threats from my husband. There will be a restraining order entered next Friday due to several death threats and people that he works with that are intimidating me. He is the chief of police for Tacoma. He does carry a firearm. Tacoma Chief of Police. David Brain, my husband that I'm divorcing. Oh that's your husband, David Brain. Yes, and this is where the problem lies. He brought one of the assistant chiefs here who is now an unwanted guest who has intimidated and threatened me during this divorce process. And it had already been made known to my attorney that she was not to have any further contact with me, and has done this tonight and showed up uninvited as an unwanted guest of my parents home with your husband, Yes, with my husband.

22:57 Who is the chief of police. My husband, David Brain. Okay, I just wanted to make sure. I'm Crystal Brain. We are in the middle of a divorce, and I have my parents here to exchange the children for my safety because there have been so many death threats. David was supposed to come in alone. He told the guard that the Brains were here and indicated that they were a couple. They were not, And it was one of his assistant chiefs, a female assistant chief, the one who has also intimidated me. And what's that person's name? That's Catherine Woodard. The five year old was just beside himself. What exactly did she do? She wouldn't leave the property, and also she had some of my personal items, of my clothing. I'm not going into the home due to safety reasons and safety issues.

23:40 Okay, did you guys exchange the children tonight? Was it the fact that he brought someone else there and he wasn't supposed to that's correct. Okay. Did any death threats take place tonight? No death threats tonight. Okay, Well, I'll get a call in and I will get someone out there to contact you just as soon as I can. What do you think of this situation? I can totally understand her being upset like she should have been. It probably could have all been avoided if she had been notified. But it does seem like she sort of has it in for this Catherine Woodard. But but I kind of understand it as well. I think Cristal not knowing what their relationship actually was was hard, and also her being a police officer made it seem more aggressive. Right, Yeah, it's a difficult situation.

24:25 But also I think she may have overreacted slightly. Yeah, it seems a little bit like that. An officer called the Judson's home instead of responding in person. Viewing it as a domestic matter without an immediate threat, he chose not to file an official report, but assured Crystal that he'd made notes about the incident. Before ending the call. He advised her to seek a restraining order if she truly felt unsafe. Yet. Somehow, Bram found out about this report from one of his moles and called Catherine Woodard irate just before midnight. He directed her to call the city manager Raye Corp. To explain the incident that it had been a misunderstanding and not an attempt to intimidate or silence Crystal in her family. Corpus didn't answer. Widard left a message. Fear washed over her as she realized that she might be in a world of trouble. She was trying to help her friend and boss, but not everyone would see it that way.

25:20 It doesn't seem like she is like, way more involved than a culture event. Yeah, definitely. The next morning, when Corpus called, she did what she thought she had to do. She threw David Bram under the bus. She admitted that he'd been falling apart under the stress of his divorce and had been negligent and sloppy at his job. Corpus seemed surprised no one had lodged a complaint. Catherine explained that everyone in the department feared David would retaliate if they spoke against him. Soon, rumors spread throughout the Tacoma Police Department that Woodard had acted badly. David dropped the children off at the Judson's home on Sunday, April thirteenth. A group of fellow officers, friends and family met him at the Brain family home to help him pack up and move to his new apartment.

26:06 There was a list that Crystal had carefully made detailing what David was allowed to take. It was very detailed, like he can have two forks at one played at, you know, like that kind of business. Ironically, there wasn't a single Thomas Kincaid painting on that list. She was okay with him having all of those the no. No, no, she wanted to keep them. Oh I think she thought they had value. Oh really Yeah. A friend described David's mood that day. He wasn't all that depressed. In fact, he seemed okay with the move. He would even joke about the place. He was moving to, a three bedroom apartment at a place called gold Point Apartments. He called them the up the Creek Apartments. The report detailing what had transpired at the Judson's home the previous Friday made its way through the station. Remember, not everyone was a fan of David bram A group of concerned officers sent a letter to Internal Affairs. Many of US Patrol officers are extremely disturbed, offended, but not surprised by the allegations brought against Chief David Brame and Assistant Chief Catherine Woodard today for eleven o three. We would all be very interested to find out if Chief Brame and Assistant Chief Witdard use their badges to gain access into the private community for personal reasons. We as officers, demand that Chief Brame be investigated with the exact same amount of fervor, lust, enthusiasm, and diligence that you have shown when investigating patrol officers. We demand that, if you are not able to do this in an unbiased fashion, which

27:37 we all know that you won't be able to, that you turn over the investigation to a law enforcement agency that will be unbiased. Rest assured, we are no fans of Chief Brame, and we will do everything to see that this incident is broadcast on the news and put into the papers. We will also be advising these news agencies that you will be attempting to cover this story up, which we who have lost faith in this department's inept administration, no will happen. For once, it would be nice to see the administrators practice what they preach and maybe try to live up to the standards set down in the glorious letter we all received from Chief Brain, signed concerned officers of the Tacoma Police Department. That was quite a letter, right, Yeah, I'm curious what the split was like if it was, you know, thirty percent of the officers tatum, you know, a couple offers. Yeah, I really have no idea. The response was disappointing to those who had raised the concerns.

28:35 The official statement read there would be no investigation, per the city manager. This was due to the fact that the complaint was anonymous. That's a bunch of baloney. Well, and remember the city manager is this Ray Corpus guy, and he's he's a little shady busy. John Hathaway, a fedora wearing to culminative with a pencil mustache, was a reporter who covered city politics on his website, The new to Coman, often scooping the mainstream media. A self proclaimed gadfly, he bragged that he owned at least one hundred and thirty fedoras. Do you know the definition of gadfly? No, I don't. A nuisance who asks too many questions.

29:16 Oh that's perfect for a reporter. On April fifteenth, two thousand and three, when he retrieved his newspaper, nestled in its box, wrapped up in the parcel was a copy of Crystal and David Brahm's divorce filing. It's unclear who stuffed the document inside his newspaper or why. But as a lifelong to coman, no one knew the city's history better or was more attuned to the whispers around city Hall. It's really funny that you had pointed out that Tacoman looks like Taco Man, So now every time. We see it, do you want to see taco man? You see taco man? Not to coman. Hathaway formerly owned a men's clothing store and wrote a fashion column for the Tribune, but in more recent times he worked as a bartender at a Rundown bowling alley, which suited him just fine. Hathaway reached out to David Brain for comment, but received none. When he called the mayor, he was again met with silence. Paul Malone, his muckraking alter ego, got to work.

30:13 So Hathaway's quite a character, you guess here. Yeah, I don't know how he got these who gave him these divorce papers, but I think that's really intriguing. Obviously it was probably one of those disgruntled police officers. Yeah, I bet it was David Bram had planned to go to a seminar the week after Easter. Newly appointed assistant chief Bill Meeks and Catherine Woodard would be filling in for him, but on Good Friday, April eighteenth, he began harassing Linda Watson again. He paged her NonStop for an hour before she finally answered, Crystal is telling everyone we are having an affair. We need to talk to come up with a plan. He asked to come to her house, saying it would be bad to meet in public in case they were spotted. She reluctantly agreed to meet him at his new apartment.

30:59 If you remember from episode one, Linda was the woman who he was trying to talk to have a threesome with me and Crystal. Okay, right to me, It's really odd that she would agree to talk to him. Yeah, it is odd. When she arrived, Brain was crying, telling her he didn't know what to do. She stayed for three hours. He told Linda that he was going to try to get the court records sealed to keep her name out of it. She was furious that her name was mentioned at all. She was another victim of David Bram's bad judgment. He was lying to her though her name was actually not in the doors. Oh really slings at all? Yeah. On Easter Sunday, David was busy putting together new Ikea furniture for the kid's bedrooms at his apartment. Feeling forlorn, He was knee deep in screws and Allan wrenches, wishing he was having an Easter egg hunt with his children.

31:47 He called his friend and fellow officer, Barry McColeman to see if he could come over and help him put the furniture together. David wasn't known to be very handy. Mc coleman could tell David was crying and agreed to cut his own family obligation short to come help him out. It was an awkward afternoon with Brain crying and venting his troubles. When David's mother and sister showed up with a plate of food for him, mccleman took it as an opportunity to make his escape. David walked him out to his car, gave him a hug, and said, I'll never forget what a friend you've been to me. This again illustrates how narcissistic and self involved David Brame was. Gets Easter and his friend is with his family, right, he doesn't think anything of Yeah, he asked him to cut his family day short.

32:32 Yeah, and he's his superior, so the guy is going to feel obligated to say yes. The day after Easter, David seemed to be in better spirits at the station, more like his old self and on top of his job, but later that night, he left the following message on Crystal's answering machine. Hi, Crystal and Haley and David. This is Daddy. So you guys give me a call. I'm here at home and so page me if it doesn't work, right, I think it will work. I just wanted to call you and tell you guys that I love you and that i'm you guys. I look forward to hearing from you. Just wanted to say good night to you, guys. Daddy loves you with all his heart. You guys, take care, have a nice day tomorrow. I love you, Bye bye. They weren't home. They were out celebrating Crystal's brother in law, Dave Aaron's birthday. No one returned David's call. John Hathaway had been working away on the article he titled Tacoma Confidential, a night owl, he put the finishing touches on his work and pressed send at two eleven am. Here's part of the salacious scoop that Hathaway was thrilled to submit to three hundred and fifty high profile contacts in and around Tacoma, including David Braime. What started out as an amicable divorce proceeding filed in King County on February twenty fourth, has turned out to be the biggest scandal this sin city has seen since Commissioner Kerr got caught with his pants down on K Street better than fifty years ago.

33:55 According to filings and depositions that have been raining down on the court faster than bombs and bag Dad, there are accusations of requested sexual favors, group encounters of threesomes and foursomes, a loaded service weapon left within the children's reach, and death threads. In light of further details to come, will Tacoma's East Side fair haired boy invoke the infamous Ariola Blue code or stand up in court like a man and allow his estranged wife and children to get on with their lives. That, dear readers, is the question. This reminds me of a modern day Bridgerton's Lady Whistledown Society papers, which you probably have no idea, but.

34:35 I'm talking about. David went to the office wearing jeans and a button down on the morning of Tuesday, April twenty first. He was headed out of town for a seminar in Las Vegas, but had a few loose ends to tie up before his flight. He quickly scanned his email when he saw John Hathaway's newsletter, David read it and was shocked at the insider details. Unsure how bad it was, he decided to leave for the airport. Maybe Sin City would help take his mind off his troubles for a few days. He called his family again, getting the answering machine. Once in Vegas, after he checked into the Flamingo Hotel, David called again answering Machine. He tried to shake it off, but Brahm was starting to get frustrated.

35:17 Several friends were with David in Vegas. They warned him they didn't want to see any tears or divorce talk. They were there to enjoy themselves. David called home two more times answering machine. April twenty fourth, two thousand three, was Crystal Bram's thirty fifth birthday. She was excited to reach the milestone as a newly single woman, full of plans and optimism for the future, but sadly, devastatingly, this would be the last birthday she would celebrate. She would be murdered in two days by her husband, the man she had been fearful of for years. Debbie Phillips recalled the happiness Crystel exuded that day as she popped into the tanning salon wearing bright pink lipstick and a new top in her favorite color yellow. Later, there was a party for her at her parents' house. Patty had baked her favorite cake, German chocolate, and spoiled her with an abundance of gifts, celebrating her new start. Meanwhile, in Las Vegas, a reporter from the Seattle Post Intelligencer reached out to David Bram for a comment because they were about to run a story about his divorce. He called the reporter and told her that Crystal was actually the abuser in the relationship, and he had always been forthcoming about his marital strife with the higher ups in the police department.

36:33 While he was calm during the interview, once he hung up the call, he panicked, making thirty eight calls, including to the city manager, the mayor, and Jeannette. Back at the station, Jeanette told him that John Hathaway, the gadfly, had left him a message something about palm springs. It made David's blood run cold. How did Hathaway know about the nudiest colony? He felt like his life was over. There was no way he could hold his head up any longer in his hometown. If that got out, he felt beaten, humiliated, untouchable. He'd have to resign. There was no way around it. His friends convinced him to go out that night, hoping to lift his spirits, but David insisted on going to the Blaggio to gamble, the same place he and Crystal had gone together. No one felt like babysitting him or listening to another round of complaints about his marriage on their last night in town, so they dropped him off and went to see Howard Stern instead.

37:29 It sounded like they were all pretending that they were going to go to the Belagio with him. He got out of the car and they sped off ditched him. Wow, is the Belagio a bad place to gamble? I don't know. No, it's one of the nicer places, probably like one of the more expensive places gamble. They didn't want to go. Depressed and lonely, he went back to his hotel early and called Crystal four times in quick succession until she finally answered. Patty eavesdropped on the conversation. Crystal kept repeating over and over, I am mother to those children, while David's said you were mother to those children. Patty didn't know what it meant, but she didn't like it. When David's friends returned, he told them the call with Crystal had gone well and there was talk of a reconciliation.

38:12 But back in Tacoma, Crystal told Patty that she'd just wanted to get off the phone, so she told him what he wanted to hear. We'll be back after a break. When David awoke on April twenty fifth, he knew the article had been published in the Seattle Post Intelligencer, but it wasn't as damning as he'd feared. It featured several quotes from him, as hard as it is to believe, and is ashamed as I am of this fact, Missus Bram has physically abused me for a number of years, often in the presence of my children. And now I see that I've become the very victim who used to frustrate me, David said, recalling how is a police officer he'd once struggled to understand why domestic violence victims wouldn't cooperate with authorities. What a dirt bag, right, Yeah, just to make those statements in a newspaper public.

39:08 Do you know if they called Crystal for comment? You know, I don't know. I don't think they did because I read the article and I don't think it. Maybe they died. Yeah, possibly the article didn't include the details he most dreaded, the trips to the nudist resort or his attempts to arrange threesomes and foursomes. David had an early flight home. He knew he was headed into the eye of the storm. When he landed at SeaTac, A forty five year old woman named Sally Masters read the article on the front page of the Post Intelligencer. She'd known David Bram since before his marriage to Crystal, and what she read didn't surprise her. She had information that would contradict David's version of his marriage. Sally believed that Cristel was the real victim.

39:51 She knew her experience with brain could help Crystal. She picked up her phone and dialed the number to the newspaper and asked to speak with Ruth Ti Pike rob the author of the article. Ruth was very interested to hear Sally's story. They agreed to meet the next day. After Brain landed, he called Jeanette to see if the media was waiting for him. There they were, She confirmed he heard the local paper, the Tacoma News Tribune, was also writing a story about his divorce. Just surprise you that there's all these newspapers that are you know. I mean, it is a little strange that they're writing stories about divorce, but it's a pretty salacious divorce. It's rightly right. He called the reporter, David Sego, and denied abusing Crystal in any way. Cego would later say he seemed in complete control of his emotions. He did not sound like a man who thought his career or his life was over. Meanwhile, Crystal sent an email to her lawyer after seeing the article in the paper. She had filed a restraining order days before, but it hadn't been put into effect yet.

40:53 She wrote, one very important issue remaining is the immediate issuance of the restraining order. I would like this filed with the court today. I have been informed that the Tacoma News Tribune is running a story on this divorce. I feel this is extremely important that you are aware of this. I strongly fear for my personal safety, and I am strongly requesting that the restraining order be put in place today. My concern is that when David returns from his Las Vegas trip, he will come after me. I am pleading with you to please put the restraining order in place immediately from my personal protection. Wow. So she knew what impact this article would have on David.

41:33 At City Hall, there was a meeting to decide what to do with Brain, suspend him, terminate him, or do nothing and wait. There was no precedent on how to handle the situation, and there was no way to prove who was telling the truth in the Brain's divorce papers. No decision was made. David returned to his apartment. His sister Jane came over to check on him. He was going to pick up the children at six, and she offered to go with him. He gratefully accepted. He didn't want to face Crystal on the Judsons by himself. There was no way he was bringing Catherine again. He called Crystal to give her a heads up, and she immediately angered, No, David, Jane cannot come here, come by yourself, don't bring anyone with you and warning you.

42:15 Why would she say that? I think had it been a neutral party, she wouldn't have minded. But I think that she knew that anyone David brought was against her. Yeah, and his family. I don't think she at this point she knew that his family was not on her side. When David and Jane arrived at the security gate, he was told to pull to the side and wait. A minute later, Crystel and her parents drove up with the children, and a peaceful exchange took place, to everyone's relief. Later that night, David called Jeanette Blackwell at home to tell her about his day. He told her that he had a good night with the kids playing and wrestling, but now he was sad watching the wedding video again. She reminded him that that wasn't healthy and it was time for him to focus on his future and his career. For about an hour before Jeannette told David that she needed to get ready for bad. She reminded him not to read the newspaper in the morning, but of course he did for that.

43:09 She just seems like I feel bad for her being. Too Yeah, she seems like a peach. David was surprised and relieved by the headline the next morning, city will not investigate police sheep abuse allegations raised in divorce case. But as he paged through paper, he saw his name again, this time on the editorial page. City manager can't ignore brame case. The article was brutal, but brain knew far worse secrets were still buried. He could only hope they stayed there, though deep down he knew it was only a matter of time before they surfaced. David had been out of the house for a couple of weeks, but Crystal hadn't moved back in yet. Remember she was a meticulous housekeeper, and she accused David of trashing their home.

43:52 With help from her parents, she had been cleaning and freshening things up preparing to move back in that Saturday while the children were with David, worried that he might have planted listening devices. Crystal even hired a professional to sweep the house, but nothing was found. That was really smart, Yeah, very smart. She had them come back once or twice more because she just was so sure that he had placed something there. Yeah. I don't blame her at all. At ten am, Crystal left to attend a four hour court mandated parenting class how to help children cope with separation and divorce. People who attended the class with Crystal described her as friendly and talkative. She openly shared her story, but in a room full of others navigating divorce, her situation didn't stand out. Everyone there had a story to tell.

44:38 That morning, David took his son to karate, then returned to the apartment for lunch. Later, David and the children went out again to run a few errands, wash the car, pick up groceries, etc. Just an ordinary Saturday. But before leaving, David had laid out a dark suit neatly on his bed, beside a few handwritten Bible verses. Before leaving the house, he strapped his service revolver beneath the sweater he was wearing. I think sometimes he wore his weapon and sometimes he didn't. At two thirty, David and the children stop at the drug store to buy some light bulbs, a few small toys, and some candy. He'd promised to get them some crazy foam for bath time, but the drug story didn't sell it. At two forty seven, Krystel left the class she'd stayed late to talk with the instructor and get his advice.

45:22 He cautioned her that her situation was uniquely dangerous and she should stay as far away from her husband as possible. David and the children were still on the hunt for crazy foam. They stopped at fred Meyer picking up pudding in chocolate milk, but still couldn't find the crazy foam. David promised the kids they'd track it down next stop Rite Aid. Meanwhile, Christel was on the phone with her mother Patty, driving to the tanning salon when she spotted David's car on the road. For reasons we'll never know, she made a U turn and followed him. At three oh seven pm, she ended the call with her mother. She followed David and pulled into the right AID parking lot behind him. David noticed her and told the children to stay in the car. She was parked a few spaces away, visible from his car. Moments later, an eyewitness saw David sitting in the driver's seat of Crystal's Toyota Camry, the door open, his long legs stretched out with his feet on the pavement. Crystal was leaning in towards him.

46:17 The witness heard her say, oh no, don't. Then came two shots, one a pause, then another. The eyewitness believes that Crystal crumpled to the ground after the second shot. It was so strange, the witness recalled, she just collapsed like there was no bones in her body, just meat. I've never seen anything fall like that before. She fell like a rag doll. Panic the man ran into a nearby story, shouting for someone, anyone, to call nine one one. It was three eleven PM. Another eyewitness saw one of the most heartbreaking scenes imaginable, a little girl and her younger brother running toward the car where the gunshots originated. She screamed, oh no. No one was able to intervene fast enough to prevent Haley and David from the car, and finding their father slumped over, nearly dead a bullet in his skull, and their mother writhing on the ground, covered in blood and gore, gasping for her next breath.

47:10 David's clock forty five on the ground near his feet. Adding to the chaos of the scene, David's car alarm echoed through the parking lot. Hailey pleaded for help. My daddy's hurt. My mom, help her, help her. My dad's meaned to my mom. Ray Lanier, a paramedic, happened to be pulling into the right aid his experience kicking into gear. He rushed to Crystal's aid. There was so much blood he couldn't see where she'd been shot. He laid her gently down, straightened her body, and made sure her earway was clear. He covered her head gently with a towel to shield her from her children's view. He checked on David and saw blood and brain matters spattered throughout his car. He had shot himself in the right temple, with a bullet exiting on the left side. Haley again said, through her sobbing, my daddy's a policeman and he's very mean to my mommy. I think my daddy has killed her.

47:59 Please my mommy. They're in a divorce. The people who had gathered in the parking lot tried to comfort the children and shield their view. Oo oh my, that's a horrible, horrible scene. I can't imagine anything worse. Imagine just you know, just a Saturday, you're out during errands, and you know, you just you come upon the scene and these beautiful little children have seen that. It just well, the only thing I'm at least a little thankful for is that he spared the children like in you know, some of these cases that doesn't happen. We'll talk about it at the end. But it's just so strange, like how this scene happed like it. Yeah, the fact that she made a U turn and followed him there, Yeah, very strange, but uh yeah, just so so sad. A kind young woman who worked at the nearby Hollywood Video took the children's hands and gently led them from the scene into the store. Haley remembered her grandparents' phone number. Patty had been dialing Crystal's number NonStop since she'd hung up with her. She answered on the first ring when someone from the video store said, there's been an incident near Hollywood Video. Please hurry, your grandchildren are here. Patty and Lane Judson rushed to the scene.

49:05 They called Julie and Dave on their way and told them to meet them at the video store. Crystel clung to life while in the ambulance. She was lucid enough, though unable to speak, to fish the bullet out of her mouth and hand it to a shocked emt. Once she was assessed at the hospital, she was medevaced to a Trauma I hospital in Seattle. David was unconscious but still breathing. He was taken to the same hospital as Crystal. David's parents weren't informed until three thirty pm. After spending the morning at a funeral for a family friend, they went to the Emerald Queen Resort casino for the afternoon. They were paged over the loud speaker to go to the manager's office, where officers from the Tacoma Police Department waited to inform them of the grim news and take them to the hospital. Beverly thought that Cristel had shot David.

49:55 Dave Crocker had been a detective for only a few weeks and had never worked such a grouco. In Gig Harbor's history, there had only been two homicides. It was supposed to be a safe place. The Pierce County Sheriff's Department, along with the Gig Harbor Police, responded to the devastating scene. The Tacoma Police Department wasn't called to the scene. They were shocked and too close to David Brahm. Well, not everyone was shocked. Some people had seen a tragedy like this coming for weeks. Because the victims were still alive when first responders arrived, their top priority was saving lives. Both were rushed to the hospital, but in the process, crucial evidence was disturbed, carrying much of the forensic material away with them. This made it much harder to reconstruct the crime scene, and none of the nearby businesses had surveillance footage of the incident.

50:45 I don't know if I've thought about this before, but you know, in this case, because they were both in a rushed to the hospital, and life saving measures were taken at the scene, you know, it made it a lot harder to determine what actually happened. Yeah, I guess so. I hadn't really considered the possibility that people might have thought that she did the shooting, but yeah, I can see why that would make it a little confusing. David's injuries were far too severe to survive. He died at five forty three pm. He was forty four years old. Catherine Woodard was made acting chief of the Tacoma Police Department. She had lost credibility with a lot of the officers, but insisted that she and David had not been having an affair. The children were taken to the hospital to be questioned by a forensic child interviewer.

51:30 While heartbreaking to think about, it's best to question children as soon as possible before their memories begin to shift. Investigators wanted to understand what happened in the final moments before the shooting. It was after nine pm and both children were exhausted. David Junior five was questioned first. He didn't understand what had happened, and it was unclear if he had seen the shooting. He wasn't crying, but seemed to be in a dissociative state. He repeated several times that he and Haley had been very, very scared. Hayley's interview didn't go much better. She seemed to be parroting what she had heard the adults around her. Say, so her breaking. You know, the situation with the kids, like they've just lost both their parents essentially, and you know, having to be interviewed and just yeah, that's really so sad.

52:19 Within hours, the media descended upon Tacoma Dateline twenty twenty forty eight hours and others, all wanting to know how this unstable man had become the police chief of a mid sized town. Residents presented a unified front and refused to talk to them. A reporter uncovered an old article noting that Brame had been the subject of an internal affairs investigation in the nineteen eighties, though the details of the case were never disclosed. With further digging, he learned that the investigation had been closed and deemed unfounded. Ram's enemies within the Tacoma Police Department tipped reporters off to a nineteen ninety nine lawsuit against David Brame, Ray Corpus and the City. Tacoma. Lieutenant Joe Kirby filed a ten million dollar suit accusing the department of favoritism and a good old boy network that promoted insiders despite union rules.

53:11 The lawsuit had been dropped and sealed, but there was one more skeleton in Brain's closet that he'd long thought to stay hidden that was about to be revealed. The skeleton had a name, Sally Masters. Sally and David had worked together in the late nineteen eighties. They went to dinner one night. The date hadn't gone well. Sally was not interested in pursuing anything further, but David forced himself on her and raped her. It took Sally fifteen months to gain the courage to report the attack. Initially, David claimed they'd had consensual sex, but later admitted to his longtime friend and fellow officer Reggie Roberts, who was investigating the crime for internal affairs, that he had raped Sally.

53:54 The infuriating question remains, why wasn't Brain punished. The investigators cited the fire following reasons in their report. Sally hadn't made the claim until fifteen months after the assault. There was no physical evidence, and Brame denied ever admitting to the assault. The investigation found the allegations to be inconclusive and the file was sealed. So these files being sealed to protect him. I know that's just not right. No. When questioned why Brame had been named police chief despite the internal affairs investigation, Tacoma City Manager Ray Corpus claimed ignorance and said he had never read his file before naming him for the job.

54:34 But insiders say that's impossible. I mean, even if it's not possible, it's incredibly negligent not to look into his past before you name somebody police chief. That good old boys network. Yeah, the officers who viewed Brame as an enemy, they'd known all along and they were sure Corpus did too. So we know a lot of these officers hate David, and now we know that this is one of the reasons why. Yeah, it's understandable. It's so inferior that all of this stuff was sealed. Crystal remained in the hospital. Her injury is dire. The community rallied around her. Signs popped up around town with messages of love and support. The Right Aid parking lot was blessed in a religious ceremony. People left cards, flowers, and balloons, wanting to help, but unsure how for the city to heal. They needed Crystal to survive.

55:24 Her family, including the children, were at the hospital around the clock, holding her hand, whispering to her, encouraging her to hang on, and her condition was improving. After a few days, she was upgraded from critical to serious condition. She lifted a finger, opened an eye, squeezed her mother's hand, giving small signs of hope. She was fighting for her life. When doctors removed the respirator, she even began to breathe on her own. We'll be back after a break. On Saturday, May third, David was laid to rest. Despite the tragedy that had unfolded, two hundred people attended his funeral. Still, it was far from the hometown heroes farewell he might have once received. Many officers came, but none were their dress blues. Hailey and David Junior were not present. David's family was heartbroken and in denial that their son was a flawed evil man. Jean Bram spoke the stress and depression he was feeling after the divorce proceedings became insurmountable and he could no longer endure the problems. His brilliant mind snapped. I'm not highly educated, but i'm his father and I am proud of him. Every One can believe what they want to believe, said Jane Brazzle, David's sister.

56:46 But the Brain family knows the truth. He was an angel on earth and now he is an angel in heaven. Oh that seems a bit much, yeah, I'll say. But many Tacoma police officers were angry detective Jim Matthis, the departments spokesperson, said, he's left us an awfully big mess to clean up. Fingers were pointed as to who should have seen the warning signs. Self published Fedora wearing journalist John Hathaway took heat for the way he released his article. But the truth is it wasn't his fault. It wasn't anyone's fault. David bram was a powder keg. Eventually he was bound to explode. If it wasn't Hathaway's article, something else might have sent him off. I mean, it wasn't anyone's fault, but he should not have been appointed chief of police.

57:29 Very good point. To save her own reputation as rumors swirled around the department that she'd had an affair with David. Under the advice of Catherine Woodard, Linda Watson filed a posthumous sexual harassment suit against David Brame, which catapulted an investigation into his sexual exploits. Investigators were led to a swingers club called New Horizons in Linwood, Washington, about an hour from Tacoma. It was rumored that several officers from the Tacoma Police Department were members, but there was no proof that Christal and David had ever been members. It was discovered that city manager Ray Corpus was having an affair with another high ranking city official, and Catherine Woodard too was intertwined in a ten year long affair. Both were married to other people. Woodard and Linda Watson Vehema Lee deny any involvement with David Brame. Most police departments require officer candidates to take a psychological evaluation before they are hired. When Jeanette, David's former assistant, was going through paperwork, she came across David's psychological evaluation from nineteen eighty one.

58:39 He'd failed, but somehow he managed to become an officer. Woodard released the information to the media, knowing how bad it would make them look, but she still felt like she should release this information. The question arose, who had been covering up for Brain for so many years and why? But further investigation revealed that Brame had offered a second evaluation after failing the first, which was within the department's protocol. In David's file, doctor James Shaw wrote in November nineteen eighty one, it appears that mister Brain is a marginal police officer applicant and the prognosis for his developing into an above average officer is judged poor at this time.

59:20 While this examiner would not recommend mister Brain be hired as a police officer, he does not display the pathology or history which would result in his rejection. Wow, so technically he hadn't failed it, but he wasn't recommended with recommendation. So one of the officers who had interviewed David initially wrote the following after meeting him and assessing him. This was also found in his file later. Brame is a very quiet individual who speaks only when it is of interest to him. His introvert type of personality and lack of life's experiences make it very doubtful that he will survive probation. David Brain does not socialize with anyone his age.

1:00:02 Davidson felt David Brame hinged on antisocial behavior. So why was David hired, quickly promoted through the ranks and eventually made chief A great question. So there was actually a third psychological evaluation given to him, and he did pass that one, so wow, very strange situation. Before the dust had even settled on the Brain scandal, Tacoma faced another high profile controversy involving city manager Ray Corpus and his wife. It had been involved in a twenty three thousand dollars insurance fraud case, one that David Brahm helped cover up keeping it out of the media. That favor likely played a role in Corpus's later promoting Brame as police chief over more qualified candidates boy The investigation continued into Catherine Woodard days after David's death. It was determined that she'd acted inappropriately, and she was placed on administrative leave. She left her career law enforcement behind. Although Cristel had made steady, hopeful progress, she spiked a fever on Friday May second.

1:01:08 Her condition deteriorated overnight, and by morning she had no brain function. Oh Man. She died at four forty pm, at nearly the same time that David was lowered into his grave. The community that had hoped and prayed for her recovery was devastated by her death, but no one felt the loss more deeply than her family. The next morning, in the Tacoma News Tribune, next to an article announcing Cristel's death, was another article written with the headline in her own words, No, Dave, I want to leave Brame. Accuser speaks out. It was Sally Master's story out in the open for the public to read. She'd come forward to tell her truth that years earlier, David Bram had raped her. As the community reeled from Cristel's death, Sally's voice rose from the past, painting an even darker picture of David Brame. Had Cristel been alive to read it, she might have had a validation.

1:02:01 Someone was finally telling the truth about David's violence and control. After years of being gas lid. This was proof that she was an unstable or to blame. David had been calculated and manipulative. She was his victim, not the other way around. When Cristel was laid to rest on May tenth, more than six hundred people attended her funeral. It was a gut wrenching service for a beloved woman. There wasn't a dry eye in the church During the slide show of her life. Cristel's tombstone reads Crystal's yet Judson. Her family chose to leave off Brame, freeing her from the name of the man who took her life. I know you're wondering about the kids that Judson's had a strong support network. It made sure that Haley and David received the care, love, therapy, and stability they needed. They stayed with their grandparents for a few months. That's where they'd been living comfortably before their parents' deaths. But when they were ready, Julie and Dave, who didn't have any biological children of their own, became their legal guardian and changed their last name to Judson. Beverly and Jean Brame were not given visitation rites at the time. It was to be revisited again in the future. I'm not sure what happened there. Jean claimed that Crystal pushed David to the brink of his sanity, causing him to implode. There was never before in the annals of law and justice been a crime built on such lies and false allegations. I hope his tormentors are happy now today Haley is thirty and David twenty eight. I think they both still live in Washington. I really didn't try to find much about them.

1:03:33 I hope they're doing well, but I imagine what they saw in April twenty six, two thousand and three, forever changed them. I'm sure it did. Crystal Judson brain was more than headlines that followed her death. More than a victim, she was a devoted mother, daughter, sister, and friend. Crystal adored being a mom to Haley and David. They were her heart and her purpose. She dreamed of rebuilding her life, finding peace, and creating a safe, loving home for her children. Patty and Lane filed a wrongful death lawsuit against the city of Deacoma and one twelve million dollars. As part of the settlement, her family negotiated the Crystal Judson Family Justice Center be created in her honor. A plaque in the lobby honors her memory. It reads, dedicated to the memory of Crystal Judson, may all who walk through these doors find strength, courage, and hope. Crystales on through the work of the CJFJC, which helps survivors of domestic violence find safety, support and hope, ensuring that Crystal's light continues to shine. Rest in peace, Crystal. Here's a clip featuring some of the work that the center does.

1:04:36 The hope in creating this center was to provide a place where a victim could walk through one door, tell their story ones and access an array of services, bringing together professionals, both from the government side and the nonprofit side. Over thirty thousand people have been touched by the center, have been able to walk through that door and meet with somebody and share their story and come out the other side and to get that help and support that they need in a time of crisis and be treated with dignity and respect. How amazing is that? It really is. I've said it before, but I'm just so amazed when people take such a horrible tragedy and turn it into something that helps other people.

1:05:16 It helps the whole community, And nothing touches me more than that generosity and spirit that endures. It's just, yeah, it's really amazing. I can't wait to donate to that cause in Crystal's memory. Absolutely, for many women, the person sworn to protect their community becomes the one that they are for most in their own home. Studies showed that domestic violence occurs in law enforcement families at rates up to four times higher than in the general population. About forty percent of police families report domestic violence, compared with roughly ten percent of families overall. Both of those statistics are staggering to me. I mean, ten percent is far too high. Yeah, households where the officer is female, the rates appear so somewhat lower, those still higher than the national average estimated around eighteen percent.

1:06:05 It's a staggering statistic that raises uncomfortable questions. Is the cause the nature of the job, the stress, the long hours, exposure to trauma and constant conflict, or does the profession itself attract individuals already prone to control violence and aggression. The culture of toxic masculinity, authority and command can easily spill over from the street into the living room, and for spouse is trapped in that situation, where can they turn for help? Who do you call when your abuser is the police? Too often reports are ignored, quietly, dismissed, or buried under the weight of the blue wall of silence when fellow officers look the other way out of loyalty or fear of retaliation. Victims are left feeling isolated, powerless, and convinced that no one will believe them. Their abusers use the police training in their abuse tactics, service weapons to threaten them and department resources to track them, use their knowledge of the system to make reports, preempting their partner's ability to make a complaint. Diane Wettendorf, a national expert in police domestic violence, told the Seattle Times the victim is afraid of retaliation, of losing financial support. It's a last resort for them to do anything like make an official complaint. Police departments have historically handled these cases poorly.

1:07:24 Some send the officer to counseling or anger management. Others simply transfer them to a new precinct, hoping the problem will disappear. It rarely does, And for Crystal, the stakes were even higher. Her husband wasn't just a police officer, he was the chief of police. After Crystal's murder, twenty wives or girlfriends of other Tacoma officers came forward reporting abuse from their partners. I don't know how we make this situation better, but November is Men's Mental Health Awareness Month, and I think that's one place where we start. We put men in these jobs, and they see so many horrific things, and I think they need more help, you know, they need more resources that are available to them.

1:08:09 Yeah. Well, it was interesting you talked about, like, you know, it's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Is it that the job causes these officers to you know, because they go through so much trauma that that sort of drives the violence. Or is it the other way around? Is the job attract people who are looking for power and control and maybe more prone to that, And yeah, I think it's I think it's a little both it. I think like training and resources certainly is part of the answer. And I don't want this to seem like I'm picking on police officers. There's so many people that are really doing great work that are in the job for the right reason. But there's also people that aren't, you know, in the job for. The right right and they are in a really tough job, you know, they they deal with a lot of things that I'm glad I don't have to deal with, and that are very traumatizing, I'm sure, And I.

1:08:56 Think oftentimes their training is minimal for what they what we asked them to do, right. But at the same time, you know, we need to do a better job of you know, he was tested, failed the psychological testing and then tested again and you know barely passed. So we need to do a better job of, you know, ensuring that the wrong people don't get into those positions as well. So we have to talk about something that is going to make you possibly mad and maybe make a lot of people uncomfortable. Rod Baker was one of the only eyewitnesses that was in the parking lot that day, and he heard the gun shots and he said that there was no more than two seconds between the two gun shots.

1:09:37 He believed that Crystal fell to the ground after the second shot. Mm hmmm. And I had kind of said that before, Yeah, So we had talked about a lot of the forensic evidence went away with Crystal and David when they went to the hospital, and it made it really difficult for crime scene investigators to piece together what happened. So the police investigator thought that David shot Crystal and then himself. With this eyewitness thought was that David shot himself and that Crystal was trying to grab the gun from him. He was like, he was in the seat of the car and she was kind of kneeling near him, and glocks, which was the gun used at the scene, are known for going off a light trigger pulling exactly. And he was saying that he was sure that Crystal fell to the ground after the second shot. So he thought that again that David took his own life and Crystal was trying to pull the gun away from him and accidentally shot herself. Okay, what do you think about that?

1:10:40 I mean, I suppose it's possible, but I also think that a things happened like that in a split second, and you know, it can't be one hundred percent like exactly what he saw and the right timing he saw it in and b if David shot Crystal first and then shot himself, it's certainly feasible that it would have taken her two seconds to fall to the ground. Right, she might have gotten shot and just you know, froze and then fell to the ground two seconds later. I just think with that timeline being so quick, I don't think we can say for sure. No, of course we can't, and we'll never know exactly what happened, and it's frustrating that there were no surveillance cameras. Yeah, I think given the situation.

1:11:20 I think, given David's history, given everything, I think the assumption is a pretty good one that he shot her. Yeah. People have criticized Crystal for not filing any official police reports against David. Do you think that that could have made a difference or would it have made things worse? I don't think it would have made a difference. It might have made things worse, but I mean, she did try to get an order of protection, right, she did right before it happened, so I don't think filing a police report probably would have made. The one thing that would have done, though, was when David said, oh, I was the one that was abused in the relationship. She would have been able to say, yeah, yeah, I suppose. Why do you think that Crystal followed David into the parking lot that day.

1:12:02 I don't know, It's just baffling. I mean, obviously she had something she wanted to maybe confront him about, but. It seems she just wanted to see the kids too and just say hi. And I think in that situation, you know, I would just want to you know, it would be great to see the kids and give him a hug and say hey, guys, what's up. Yeah, but it just seemed it seems strange though, given the fact that she had just you know, sent a note to her lawyer about the order of protection. So it just seems weird that she would then turn around and. It's a public, public parking lot. Yeah, it still is. You know, she he had the kids with him, and she probably didn't realize that he had the gun with him. Do you think that it was premeditated in any way?

1:12:43 Like I said that he laid out the dark suit, he'd written the Bible passages. That was strange to me because I don't think that he would have killed her in front of the children. Yeah, that is really strange. And the fact that he kind of ran into her, you know, happenstances, sort of makes it seem like maybe it wasn't Maybe he had just planned on ending his own life. Do you think that David was involved with any other women. It's hard for you to answer that. Because I'm the one who did the research and read the book. I have to believe he was. I mean, it just seems like when he got into the chief of police position, the power went to his head and he seemed like he was very happy to abuse that power in a lot of ways. And I wouldn't you know, it wouldn't be at all surprising if he did.

1:13:27 There's no evidence that he did. For some reason, Catherine Woodard seems a little shady to me. Oh yeah, she seems really involved with David. I don't know if that was just because she wanted to advance her career or she was trying to be a good friend. But yeah, it does make you wonder. Yeah, but there was no one that came forward that said that they were involved with David and the level of devastation, if that's what you want to call it, after Crystal filed for divorce, I don't think he had like room in his brain to have a girlfriend. Yeah. I mean, he's clearly heartbroken over her leaving him. I have one last question for you. It's about gossip in the workplace. Do we have a moral obligation to stay silent when what we hear could hurt someone? Like in this story, it seemed like there was like a lot of rumors floating around the police station, right, And when we hear gossip, we can't wait to talk about it, especially if it's really salacious, like, oh, the boss is having an affair with the you know, assistant chief. Should we keep our mouths shut and you know, not perpetuate the gossip.

1:14:32 Boy, that's just a tough one. But I don't want to call you out, but you love to go You're a gossip. I think most people like to gossip. Yeah, that's a tough one, because it's not just gossip. It's a situation of a person in power potentially abusing that power and putting. Themselves in a cous I met more generally, Yeah. Generally, I mean, if the gossip is not harmful, you know, if it only involves two people, then I guess, yeah, I don't know, that's it really on the specific situation. I think when I was in high school, I worked with a lot of people and I had a crush on this one guy, and he was really flirty with everyone. And there was a married lady and I think, I don't think I started the gossip, but they were so flirty it seemed like there might have been something going on.

1:15:19 And she cornered me one day and she was like, little missy, I hear that you're spreading gossip about me. And I've never forgotten that because she was right, like I had no right to say anything about her marriage or what she was doing. And you know, it was a really uncomfortable situation. But I learned from that that if the gossip that you hold can really harm someone's life, you should probably hold your tongue. I had a very similar situation when I was in high school, I worked in a restaurant and one of the waitresses I worked with, who I was friends with, told me something and I told it to someone else. And when I told it to someone else, I turned around and she was standing there. She heard the whole thing. Oh it was so horrible because I was like caught in the act of spreading gossip about her. And then what did you do? I mean, I just apologized profusely, and she was really really angry, hopefully so oh totally.

1:16:12 So I wrote her a long note and left it on her time card the next day, and eventually, you know, we got past it, but we were never friends again, and we had been friends and then that was over. That's too bad. Yeah, it sounds like you learned a lesson. Well not really because you've told me, because when it comes to your spouse, that's another question. Should you tell your spouse all the gossip? You know? I think I'm normally I'm pretty good at keeping like secrets. But I think with you, I tell you more for sure. Than you don't tell me everything. What are you holding on to? I think I tell you most everything. Most everything. Now I'm curious, but you're holding back from me. Nothing you need to know. I do want to give a shout out to Paul LaRosa, who wrote the book Tacoma Confidential, a true story of murder, suicide, and a police chief's secret life. It was written in two thousand and six. It was a great book. I really enjoyed it, and it was so thorough that I didn't have to do a ton of outside research. So really really wonderful book. Right, well done, Well, thank you so much for listening. That was a heartbreaking case.

1:17:16 It sure was. Right before we go, I wanted to talk about Thanksgiving a little bit. I think of this every year, but I hope that you're listening to this episode and maybe you might be taking a walk because you're a mother in law doesn't like the way you make the braby or whatever it is. But it could be a very stressful time for a lot of people. Yeah, it's not easy. It's not always easy, but we hope you're having a great day. I have some would you rather Thanksgiving questions for you? It's okay, are you ready? Probably not, but go for it. Would you rather eat only turkey or only side dishes for the rest of your life? The rest of my life? Yeah, I guess only side dishes because there'd be a little more of a.

1:18:00 Yeah, true, definitely. Would you rather do all the cooking or all the cleanup? I'd probably rather do the cooking. Would you rather have pumpkin or. You have to answer that too, Oh. I'd rather do that. Well, I usually usually do both, but tell I absolutely help. Help, but you don't do all the cleanup. You do all the cooking or most most all the cooking. Uh huh. Would you rather have pumpkin pieory apple pie? Apple pie? Yeah? He hates pumpkin pie. What's your answer? Pumpkin on Thanksgiving? For sure? Would you rather skip turkey or skip the mashed potatoes? Yeah? Oh boy, that's a tough one because I love both. I would rather skip the turkey. I think I would take Well, if there's gravy, Yeah, there's got to be gravy and dumplings. Maybe I'll make dumplings. I don't normally make dumplings. But would you rather fight off a turkey the size of a bear or a hundred bears the size of turkeys?

1:18:53 I think a hundred bears the size of turkeys. I think I could take them. I don't think you could a. Bear sized turkey, though, that would be That would be terrifying. Some of these are so silly. Would you rather have to gobble like a turkey every time you walk? Or wattle everywhere you go? Swattle? I would go gobble? A bad choice. Would you rather eat your entire meal without utensils or without talking? You'd probably rather without talking. Yeah, either one's fine with me. Would you rather have to put gravy on dessert or whipped cream on turkey? Uh? Probably?

1:19:34 Would you rather have no leftovers or be stuck eating only leftovers for a week? Oh? Only leftovers would be fine. Really, I'm going no leftover? Really? Yeah? Well, left doors are the best part of thingsgiving. What do you like to eat? Leftover? Every turkey sandwich? Turkey sandwich on a. Right turkey sandwich. That's it? Like that's the only thing I. Want left pretty much? Anything leftover? Yeah, okay. Would you rather wear a pilgrim hat to work all week or e turkey costume on Thanksgiving Day? Oh that's easy. Well see, and seeing as I work from home, I would wear the Pilgrims out. Really, I would wear a turkey costume on Thanksgiving Day because that is it would be pretty awesome. Yeah awesome. Well, I am grateful for you. I'm grateful for our listener that.

1:20:17 I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving our American listeners. When is Canadian Thanksgiving? I'm ashamed to say, I don't know. It was in October. Oh, we hope you guys had a nice Thanksgiving back in October. Yeah. Well, I am grateful for you too, and I am also grateful for all of you listening. Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com. And remember, follow us on YouTube. YouTube episodes always drop a day. Early, almost always, unless I forget. Oh I didn't know that. I've forgotten a couple times. But consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash love Mary Kill. We have one tier five dollars a month. You get early ad free access.

1:20:59 Please us a monthly bonus episode. Until next time. Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband. M