Jan. 6, 2025

Danielle and Michael Redlick

Danielle and Michael Redlick
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Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon

In January 2019, Danielle Redlick frantically called 911. She said she believed her husband, Michael Redlick, was deceased. A heart attack, she thought. But as more details of the story emerged, it was clear this was no heart attack. The story Danielle told was full of holes. The question is, would a jury believe her?

Today's snack: French silk pie

Support us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/lovemarrykill

Sources:

  • https://www.courttv.com/trials/fl-v-redlick-2022/
  • https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2019/02/06/ucf-faculty-members-wife-said-he-stabbed-himself-police-say-she-killed-him-tried-to-cover-it-up/
  • Taking the Stand. S2.E1, Danielle Redlick.
  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S3E7VdhX-k (911 call)
  • https://www.thefloridatriallawyer.com/homicide/second-degree-murder/ (Florida murder statutes)
  • https://www.ucf.edu/news/redlick-will-remembered-helping-next-generation-students-succeed/
  • Lotan, Gal Tziperman, et al. “Police: UCF faculty member’s wife fatally stabbed him and tried to cover it up.” The Orlando Sentinel, Feb 7, 2019, p. B1.
  • Weiner, Jeff. “Redlick ordered held without bail on murder charge.” The Orlando Sentinel, Feb 8, 2019, p. B2.
  • Schneider, Mike. “Ex-Grizzlies executive is stabbed to death.” The Commercial Appeal (Memphis, Tennessee), Feb 8, 2019, p. A8.
  • Lotan, Gal Tziperman. “Judge: Kids can visit mom in jail.” The Orlando Sentinel, Apr 3, 2019, p. B2.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Woman accused of stabbing a UCF faculty member’s husband could see her children testify against her.” The Orlando Sentinel, May 24, 2019, p. B2.
  • Weiner, Jeff, et al. “She saw it as a bloody end to their marriage.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 7, 2019, p. A1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Woman accused of killing husband asks for bond.” The Orlando Sentinel, Nov 28, 2019, p. B2.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Judge permits lawyers’ strategy.” The Orlando Sentinel, Mar 13, 2020, p. B1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Woman says she’s a victim of fake probe.” The Orlando Sentinel, Dec 8, 2020, p. B1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Trial to begin for Winter Park woman accused of killing husband.” South Florida Sun Sentinel, Jun 6, 2022, p. A5.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Home like a ‘horror movie’.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 10, 2022, p. A1.
  • Garza, Lisa Marie. “Wife’s letter to slain husband read.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 11, 2022, p. A3.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Daughter: Mom said dad had heart attack.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 14, 2022, p. A1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Redlick testifies she stabbed husband amid attack.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 15, 2022, p. A1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Redlick hoped heart attack killed husband.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 16, 2022, p. A1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Redlick’s fate now in jury’s hands.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 17, 2022, p. A1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Redlick found not guilty of murder.” The Orlando Sentinel, Jun 18, 2022, p. A1.
  • Cordiero, Monivette. “Redlick gets probation for evidence tampering.” The Orlando Sentinel, Aug 6, 2022, p. A1.
WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm rich and I'm Tina.

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And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty.

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Years of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Tina, Happy.

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New Year, Happy twenty twenty five. How are you today?

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You know I'm about fifty percent today.

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Yeah.

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I wanted to thank everyone for your well wishes, and

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we're so sorry that we took last week off. It

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was not the way we wanted to start twenty twenty

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five off. But I've been pretty sick.

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Yeah, you haven't had much of a holiday.

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It wasn't the holiday week I was hoping for. I

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do have a two part episode that I've been working

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on that we were supposed to record last week, but

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because I haven't been feeling well, you stepped up and

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you whipped up this case over break your break. So

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thank you for doing that. Oh sure, and we will

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hopefully record that other episode soon.

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That sounds good. I have a fun twenty twenty five

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math fact. Okay, you know one cubed plus two cubed

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plus three cube plus four cube plus five cube plus six, seven,

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eight nine cubed equals twenty five, so you can use

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that at your next dinner party to amaze your friends.

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Awesome, thank you for that fact.

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Sure would you like.

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You're gonna have to do all the heavy lifting today?

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So sorry everyone, which.

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Is I'm not very good at heavy lifting it, But

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would you like it?

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You're very good at it? Yeah? I would. I would

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love us neck.

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So I made this French silk pie.

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I posted a picture of it on Instagram because it

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was so beautiful.

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You haven't tried it yet.

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I have not eaten it. No, I haven't eaten much

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of anything the last couple of weeks.

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Yeah. So I've made this on New Year's Eve, but

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we still have it like a piece left.

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So, and how sad was your New Year's Eve? Because

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I was. I was in bed. I've been in I've

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been in bad Christmas Eve, Christmas Day I rallied a

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little bit, but I was still in bad most of

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the day. Yeah, New Year's Eve, I was in bad

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most of the day.

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So it's been a little sad. But we've all felt

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really bad for you. You've obviously had the worse than

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We can't really complain.

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Well, life hack, you had to do all the cooking

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and like on Christmas Eve, like the kids like, I

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don't know, everyone cleaned and everyone in the day after Christmas,

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you guys put Christmas away.

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So we've tried our best, but it's definitely given us

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a new appreciation for how much you do around here. Yeah, anyway,

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here is a piece of French silk pie for you.

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What did you think that was so good?

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Good?

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There's such a good little cook.

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I really like French silk pie. My favorite and that

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is we talked about it on an episode not long ago.

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But Sally's used to be Sally's baking addiction, her recipe,

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and it's yeah, it's amazing.

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You did a great job. Sally did a great job too.

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But yeah, she's really yummy. I highly recommend it if

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you like pie, if you like chocolate, and you like

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pie chocolate and can't go wrong. And do you want

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to talk about the friend that's joining us in the

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studio today?

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Oh? Is he standing right behind me?

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Right behind your shoulder.

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Yeah, that was a very excellent gift that you got

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us for Christmas. It's a life size Keith Morrison cut out.

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Yeah, so Keith will be joining us. I don't know

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if eventually we'll get all the Dateline team members to

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join us. But I really like Kevin Keith here.

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Yeah, I think it's it. It's inspiring for us. Today

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we're going to be sharing the story of Danielle and

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Michael Redlick. It's a fairly recent story. Just a warning,

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this episode contains descriptions of domestic violence and suicide, so

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please listen with care. On the morning of January twelfth,

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twenty nineteen, forty five year old Danielle Redlick frantically called

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nine one one. She said that she believed Michael Redlick,

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her sixty five year old husband of more than than

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seventeen years, was deceased. She thought it was a heart attack,

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she said, But the other details that emerged during the

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nine one one call and on the scene of Michael's death,

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later described as something out of a horror movie, made

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it clear that this was no heart attack. The story

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Danielle told the nine one one dispatcher and later the

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police had holes in it, too many holes. Eventually, Danielle

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would have the opportunity to explain all of those discrepancies

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to a jury. The question was would they believe her.

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Ooh born in nineteen seventy three. Danielle grew up as

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Danielle Drohan in Cleveland, Ohio, the oldest of five kids.

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I'm not sure what became of Danielle's father, but her mom, Kathleen,

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had a second marriage to a man named Robert Akino.

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Sometime around nineteen ninety six, when Danielle was twenty two

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years old, her mom separated from Robert and met someone new.

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His name was Michael.

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Redlickh That name sounds familiar.

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Michael Redlick had been a lawyer for thirteen teen years

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before he decided to turn his passion for sports into

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a new career. He went back to school at Ohio University,

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where he earned his masters in Sports management, then worked

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in sports marketing roles with the Cleveland Browns NFL team

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and the Cleveland Cavaliers of the NBA. He was very successful,

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helping the Browns raise more corporate sponsorship revenue than any

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other NFL franchise. In nineteen ninety nine, shortly after they

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started dating, Kathleen was diagnosed with breast cancer. When it

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became clear that Kathleen was not going to survive, she

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and Michael got married. In nineteen ninety nine. I believe

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they got married mainly so that Kathleen could get on

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Michael's insurance, which would help her with their end of

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life care. In any case, Michael Redlick was now a

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stepfather to Danielle and her four younger siblings, although most

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of them were adults. Danielle herself was twenty five or

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twenty six at this point in not living at home. Sadly,

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Kathleen passed away three months after she and Michael married.

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While most of the children were now adults, Danielle's youngest

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sister was sixteen and still had a year of high

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school left. Michael wanted to provide her with as much

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stability as possible, but he also had a burgeoning and

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demanding career as a sports executive. He asked Danielle if

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she would consider moving into help out, and she agreed.

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At this time, Danielle was working part time as a

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bartender and attending school. Michael was supportive, introducing Danielle to

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his network of contacts and helping her land her first

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professional job in the business world. Their shared grief over

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the loss of Danielle's mom evolved over time and became

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a friendship. Michael would take her to concerts. Then he

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started hanging out at the bar where she worked, and eventually,

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a year or two after Kathleen had passed away, the

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relationship became romantic.

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How long had Kathleen and Michael been involved for.

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I think they were dating for a couple of years,

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maybe two years before they got married.

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And Danielle hadn't lived at home during that time.

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I don't think so.

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No, So she didn't really know him that well.

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No, And she later said she never really considered him

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to be a stepfather, which you can understand, you know,

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but still kind of an unusual way for a relationship

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to get started in some way, was stating your mom.

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Michael's career continued to flourish, and in two thousand and one,

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he got a job offer with the Memphis Grizzlies basketball

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team to be their executive VP of business Operations. He

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asked Danielle to move to Memphis with him, but she

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wasn't ready for that. Her whole family was still in

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Cleveland and she hadn't told them that she and Michael

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were dating. It was just too weird, seeing as he

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had been married to her mom, so she kept it

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a secret from the rest of the family. So Michael

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moved to Memphis on his own while Danielle stayed in Cleveland,

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but he would send her plane tickets to fly out

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and spend weekends with him. First it was occasionally, but

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over time it became an almost every weekend kind of thing.

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One weekend, after about a year of their long distance relationship,

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Michael took Danielle out to Mud Island, a nice area

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of Memphis on the banks of the Mississippi River. He

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pulled up to a beautiful home, took her inside, and said,

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I bought this place for us. So she ended up

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moving to Memphis.

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Through his contacts in Memphis, Michael helped Danielle land a

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job in the radio industry. Danielle gave birth to a daughter, Jaden,

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in two thousand and three. The couple got married in

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two thousand and four. Danielle was thirty two Michael was

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fifty three. In two thousand and eight, they added a son, Sawyer.

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So Michael hadn't had a previous marriage or previous children.

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I don't know a lot about his previous life. I

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do believe he may have been married once before, but

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I don't believe there were children.

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Michael's career continued to grow. Around two thousand and nine,

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he took a job as VP of Business Development with

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the San Francisco forty nine ers. You must be envious

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of this guy's career with all this time.

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I mean, that would be pretty cool to work in

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that environment.

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It only lasted a year or so, though, due to

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changes at the top of the organization. He soon joined

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the Indianapolis Motor Speedway as the Vice president and chief

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sales Officer. The world of professional sports was a glamorous one.

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It paid well, but it also required a lot of moving, disruption,

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and stress. In twenty thirteen, Michael decided to leave the

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professional sports world behind to provide a more stable environment

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for his family. It was a significant salary cut, but

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he took a job with the University of Central Florida

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as the Director of External Affairs and Partnership Relations for

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the Devas Sports Business Management Program. The family moved to

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Winter Park, Florida, a suburb of Orlando. They loved Michael

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at UCF. He saw it as an opportunity to give

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back to the next generation of students. Sports Business Management

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program had a strong emphasis on community service, and Michael

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was happy to get involved. He joined students on a

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trip to New Orleans to help rebuild homes after Hurricane Katrina,

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and he mentored students who organized a charity to benefit

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the Hull's Foundation, which was established after the mass shooting

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at the Pulse night club in Orlando. The students called

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him read. After his death, two hundred students and alumni

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messaged email and called UCF to express their gratitude for

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the contributions Michael had made to their lives. His colleagues

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also remembered how much he talked about his kids, Jaden

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and Sawyer. It was obvious to all that they were

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the center of his life. Although it may sound like

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Danielle and Michael had a perfect life together, it was

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far from it. Their marriage could best be described as tumultuous.

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Their neighbor, who lived across the street, heard them fighting regularly.

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He described numerous occasions where he saw Danielle screaming at Michael,

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for example, as they were coming out of the front door.

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He never saw Michael raise his voice back at Danielle.

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He described Michael as very passive during these incidents. Michael's

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co workers knew that the couple fought a lot. To

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his close friends. Michael described Danielle as crazy and explode

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Joseph and said that she would throw things at him

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when angry. He would joke quote, as long as I

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hide the steak knives, everything will be fine.

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It's possible that could be a little foreshadowing.

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Oh. The parent of one of their son's teammates said

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that Danielle had a drinking problem. After a few drinks,

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she would suddenly turn like flipping a switch. In one

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of these incidents, they said that after about five drinks,

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Danielle suddenly started swinging her fists at them, to the

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point where they had to call the police. In June

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twenty sixteen, an officer on patrol in Winter Park came

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into contact with Danielle after she had been drinking, and

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ended up filing a report stating that she was disorderly, disruptive, belligerent,

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and was exhibiting violent behavior towards others. In October twenty sixteen,

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police recalled to Danielle and Michael's home after they had

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been fighting. While the officer tried to get the necessary

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information from Danielle, she became progressively more upset and finally

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refused to speak with them, and then abruptly left the building.

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A friend reported seeing Michael with a large black eye

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one time, and just a week before his death, they

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saw bruises that looked like four fingerprints on his forearm.

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From these accounts, it may seem like Michael was the

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more passive one in these marital fights, but there is

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evidence that he was also physical with Danielle. Many of

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these accounts come from Danielle after Michael's death, but there

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is some independent confirmation that Michael struck Danielle at least once.

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An orthopedic surgeon who worked for the Memphis Grizzlies at

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the same time that Michael worked there recalled a time

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when Michael brought Danielle in, apparently to avoid taking her

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to a hospital or outside doctor. It's horrible, m h.

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The doctor's recollection of this was vague years later, but

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he said that he remembered both Michael and Danielle having injuries.

247
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He didn't keep any records of the visit, but recalled

248
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referring Danielle to a plastic surgeon and possibly a dentist

249
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:01.679
for a shipped tooth. He said that they both seemed

250
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ashamed if he thought that there were signs of domestic abuse.

251
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Shouldn't he have reported that As a physician.

252
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You would think so. Yeah.

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Additionally, the mom of one of Sawyer's baseball teammates would

254
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later recall a stay in the spring of twenty eighteen

255
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when Danielle came to pick Sawyer up. Danielle was wearing

256
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sunglasses and a hat, and the fred noticed that Danielle

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seemed to be hiding a black eye.

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So it's a really toxic and volatile relationship.

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Yeah.

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Things came to a head in January twenty eighteen when

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Danielle discovered a series of emails between Michael and another

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00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.840
woman indicating that he had been having an affair. To

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blow off steam, Danielle went out drinking with a couple

264
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of friends and ended up getting arrested. The police report

265
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for that incident describes a very aggressive altercation between Danielle

266
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and Kelly Joe Pritz, one of the friends that she

267
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was out with. The three of them were on their

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way home from the bars when the fight took place.

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The driver of the car, Richard Argueo, pulled over at

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a gas station because he was worried that he the

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fight would cause him to crash. When the police showed

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up at the gas station. They found all three individuals

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injured and bloody. The arresting officer noted, quote, after talking

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to Richard and Kelly, I attempted to talk to Danielle,

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but she had nothing to say that was coherent in nature. Unquote.

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Some of the random statements attributed to Danielle on the

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arrest report included, I am Winter Park and Babe Ruth

278
00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:29.360
was a badass, so pretty incoherent. Paramedics arrived to treat

279
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:32.919
the three people, but Danielle yelled, obscenites, pushed, kicked, and

280
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attempted to bite them. Eventually, Danielle was handcuffed, taken to jail,

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and charged with disorderly intoxication, battery on an officer, and

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resisting an officer with violence. Those charges were later reduced

283
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and Danielle was given a year of probation, during which

284
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time she was not supposed to drink alcohol. In February

285
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twenty eighteen, Michael called nine to one.

286
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One Danie Police.

287
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Yes, one two three one Temple Drive, Winter Park, Florida.

288
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There's a woman that's the danger to herself and to

289
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others right now.

290
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Address one two three one Temple Drive, Winner Park, Florida,

291
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okay say the line.

292
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I'm gonna have to transpress over to what your park.

293
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Let me talk first. When they answer, okay, you are

294
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going to room.

295
00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:34.919
Yeah, well one police fire remarical.

296
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That's the sinel to transfer for police at twelve thirty

297
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one Temple Drive.

298
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Yeah.

299
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Thanks, you stop, all right, I'll I will call you back.

300
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I'll call you back in five minutes.

301
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:49.919
I'll call you back in five minutes.

302
00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:52.000
What is going on there?

303
00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:58.639
Hello? Yeah, I'm still there.

304
00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:01.159
He didn't give me a information and just said that

305
00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:02.679
there was a woman who was a dangers who were

306
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to herself.

307
00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:06.720
Hearing that call and hearing Danielle in the background, it

308
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just I can't imagine living in that type of environment

309
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with just constant fighting and stress. It just sounds horrible.

310
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It does.

311
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When the police arrived, Michael told them that Danielle had

312
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been drinking and they had had an argument, but that

313
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.600
she was now sleeping. If Danielle had been drinking, this

314
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would be a violation of her probation, but it's unclear

315
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.840
whether any action was taken as a result of this.

316
00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:32.200
Danielle filed for divorce in March twenty eighteen, describing the

317
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marriage as irretrievably broken. In the divorce petition, Danielle sought

318
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:40.120
shared custody of the kids and asked for alimony and

319
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.759
exclusive use of the couple's home. Michael had moved out

320
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.000
by this time, but the couple stayed in contact to

321
00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:48.919
help raise the children, who were fourteen and ten by

322
00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.919
this time. The divorce papers that Danielle filed never got

323
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.200
served to Michael. However, he avoided it for a while,

324
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and then one day he came back home to pick

325
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up some things. Semedpensive, so Danielle asked him what was

326
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.119
on his mind. He said, I love my wife. I

327
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don't want to be with anyone else. Danielle softened toward him,

328
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and the two lay down together. Ironically, the process server

329
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:15.279
knocked at the door. At this time, Danielle had tipped

330
00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.000
them off that Michael would be there that day. She

331
00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:21.480
answered the door and sent the process server away. The

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couple decided to reconcile, and the divorce petition was eventually

333
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dismissed because Michael had never been served.

334
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What do they think would be different if they reconcile.

335
00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.119
I don't know, YEA. It really does make you wonder.

336
00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:36.559
While they did try to reconcile. Things between them didn't

337
00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:39.920
seem to improve as you predicted. In mid May, while

338
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they were still living apart, Danielle picked up a book

339
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.519
that Michael had brought to the house and a piece

340
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:46.839
of paper fell out of it. It looked like a

341
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.599
speech that Michael had written, and it said something about

342
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.799
being newly divorced and being lucky if God finds you

343
00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.319
another woman. We don't have the actual content, but that's

344
00:17:56.359 --> 00:18:00.759
just paraphrasing based on Danielle's description. It shook Danielle up

345
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.079
because outwardly, Michael was acting like they were trying to reconcile,

346
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and this made it seem like he was actually planning

347
00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.319
on divorce. Danielle sent a lengthy email to Michael soon

348
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:13.599
after that with the subject line, stuff I'm thinking about.

349
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.240
Here are some excerpts from the email to understand Danielle's

350
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.680
feelings at the time. I know I'm bitter at times,

351
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:23.519
I admit, and no it's not pretty, and I do

352
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:26.000
need to get a grip, as you put it, but

353
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:28.440
you have a lot of nerve as well. Although my

354
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:31.200
words may be cutting, they are only sounds a dull

355
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:35.319
knife compared to the sharp disloyal, deceiving, phony and never

356
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:38.359
ending selfish knife you continue to twist in my back

357
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.359
as if it's a sport. At this point, I've never

358
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.079
met anyone who convinces themselves over and over that their immoral,

359
00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.880
conniving actions are not just that, but are somehow justified

360
00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:52.640
and or reasonable, no matter their cost or harm to others.

361
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.599
I noticed, whenever I confront or attempt to process work

362
00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.400
through the cuts your knives wound me with you have

363
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:01.960
a hard time. I'm trouble admitting the true nature of

364
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:05.119
just how sharp and dangerous their edges are. They are

365
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.599
nonetheless weapons, and you are always claiming the right to

366
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.920
hurt me with them. I went on sacrificing my own

367
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:14.480
happiness and ended up jeopardizing my children's as well. I

368
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.039
blame you, but really I am just as at fault.

369
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.359
I did not take care and I did not act

370
00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.839
with self love. I was wrong. I drank, I raged,

371
00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:26.480
I became the ugly pain in my heart on the outside,

372
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:28.839
I changed and witnessed a darkness in me that I

373
00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:30.799
never knew was there or could be part of me.

374
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:35.599
My pain made me dark, ugly, and shameful. I was hopeful, sweet,

375
00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:37.480
and full of life and love when I met you.

376
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.079
For the record, I really wanted the Romeo and Juliette story.

377
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.279
I wanted a soulmate to trust melt into, be there for,

378
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.119
even die for if it came down to it, to

379
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.880
show the depth of my love and hopefully vice versa.

380
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.440
This note was really really long. That's probably less than

381
00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:55.160
ten percent of it that I've kind of picked and

382
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.880
shows different things, but it was a really lengthy note.

383
00:19:58.359 --> 00:19:59.960
I just want you to make a quick mental note

384
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.400
of during those passages that I read from her, note,

385
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:08.440
how often she talks about knives and cutting and Romeo

386
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.640
and Juliet Like I know, Romeo and Juliet are. The

387
00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.119
story is sort of, you know, an idealized version of

388
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:17.480
true love. But also that story doesn't end well, as

389
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.920
most people know, So just make a note of that.

390
00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.799
Another source of their problems, according to Danielle, was that

391
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:27.720
Michael was taking testosterone injections because he was having difficulty

392
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:31.559
performing sexually. Danielle said that the treatments made him more

393
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:35.759
aggressive and hostile toward her, including being physically aggressive with

394
00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:39.480
her during sex. During the spring and summer of twenty eighteen,

395
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:43.279
Michael was still living in a rented condo. As fall approached,

396
00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.319
he told Danielle that their finances weren't in good shape.

397
00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.880
He proposed that he moved back into the house and

398
00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:51.519
they prepare to sell it. They could decide what to

399
00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:53.759
do about their marriage once they got to that point.

400
00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:57.000
With the holidays approaching, Danielle felt like it might be

401
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.160
nice for the kids to have their dad back home,

402
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.559
and so she agreed. Michael moved back home during fall

403
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:03.519
of twenty eighteen.

404
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:07.720
During the nine to one to one call, I zelloed

405
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:08.359
their house.

406
00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:09.640
Oh did you Yeah?

407
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:12.400
They lived in a four bedroom, two and a half

408
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:16.960
bath house thirty five hundred square feet and the z

409
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:19.279
estimate is one point seven million dollars.

410
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:20.079
Oh very nice.

411
00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:22.200
So yeah, it looks like a very very nice house.

412
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:25.880
Although Michael had moved back into the house, Danielle later

413
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.759
said that she still didn't expect the relationship to last.

414
00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:32.599
She said that although things were mostly amicable between them,

415
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:36.480
there were still incidents where he was sexually aggressive towards her.

416
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.880
On December fifth, twenty eighteen, Danielle created an account on

417
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.759
the dating website meetmindful dot com. Meet Mindful is described

418
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.160
as a dating app and community for people who want

419
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:53.279
to make meaningful connections and live healthy, happy lives. Danielle

420
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:57.279
signed up with a status of separated, looking for friendship, dating,

421
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:01.480
and long term relationships. In her profile, she wrote, quote

422
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.920
looking for down to earth kind of deep would be interesting, passionate,

423
00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:09.240
zest for life type guy with sense of humor to

424
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:13.079
spend time with and hopefully shares the same definition of love.

425
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:16.240
Also not going to lie love the whole Romeo and

426
00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:18.519
Juliette fairy tale, but I keep it real.

427
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:20.680
Oh my gosh.

428
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.680
I think having a real, meaningful and strong connection is

429
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:25.839
what appeals to me. End quote. Yeah, I'm not sure

430
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:28.400
what her fixation was on the Romeo and juliet thing,

431
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:30.000
And I don't think that's a fairy tale.

432
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:32.880
But and Julia were fourteen tragedy.

433
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.799
Yeah that too. Danielle messaged back and forth with several

434
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.519
guys over the next few weeks through the Meat Mindful Sight,

435
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:43.480
including a man named Caesar. On January tenth, the day

436
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:46.799
before his death, Michael Redlick was drinking and apparently looked

437
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:50.720
at Danielle's phone and saw those messages. According to Danielle,

438
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.359
he was livid and it led to an intense argument.

439
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.759
It was so intense that fifteen year old Jaden said

440
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.160
that she physically got between her parents to try and

441
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.680
calm things down. Danielle ended up leaving the house. While

442
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:05.960
she was gone, Jaden texted her and said she was

443
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:10.359
pouring out michael vodka. Danielle replied, quote, you know you

444
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:12.359
may not want to pour all that out because I

445
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:14.200
need him to pass out so I can come home

446
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.640
at some point unquote. Eventually, eleven year old Sawyer texted

447
00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.480
her and said Michael had passed out, so Danielle returned

448
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.960
home and went to sleep. I feel so bad for

449
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:28.480
these kids. The next day, January eleventh, Michael apologized to

450
00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:32.839
Jaden for having seen Danielle and him fighting. Jaden later said, quote,

451
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.519
he wasn't angry at all. He kept saying he was sorry.

452
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:37.200
He kept saying how much he loved me.

453
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:37.960
End quote.

454
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.759
Soon after that, both Jaden and Sawyer left for sleepovers

455
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:44.680
at friend's houses. It was the last time either of

456
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:45.720
them would see their father.

457
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:50.160
Fast forward to the morning of January twelfth, Danielle called

458
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:59.200
nine one one at nine twenty eight, am.

459
00:23:55.960 --> 00:24:01.440
My husband, okay, and why did you believe he's fifty?

460
00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:08.079
Because been I I just he's this and he did

461
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:09.720
you wonder he might have had a heart attack. I

462
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:10.000
don't know.

463
00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.880
Okay, did you just find him? No?

464
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.000
Actually, what happened last night?

465
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.559
It happened last night?

466
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:21.240
Correct?

467
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:22.839
Okay?

468
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:24.640
So did you find him this morning?

469
00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:26.599
Cause I know you said that you believed it happened

470
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:27.079
last night.

471
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:28.279
Did you see him last night?

472
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:29.000
Was he okay?

473
00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:31.079
Or was he was not?

474
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:31.480
Okay?

475
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:35.759
Last night we had we had altercations and they stapped

476
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:38.799
himself and I ran into the bathroom and then I

477
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:39.279
came out.

478
00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:41.039
I tried to help him and I saw he was

479
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:49.720
lying in blood and the okay, I tried to correct, Yes,

480
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:53.160
and then I tried to help him.

481
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:58.119
And I thought I woke up with sitting up next

482
00:24:58.160 --> 00:24:58.640
to him.

483
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:00.640
And I've been say what's due?

484
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:02.319
Right?

485
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:04.519
I gotcha.

486
00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:10.119
I'm gonna get you some help. But you all had

487
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.480
an altercation last night?

488
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:11.960
Correct?

489
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:13.519
Yeah?

490
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.599
Okay, So Danielle, let me asks you this.

491
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:19.880
So did he stab himself last night and he passed

492
00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:24.839
last night and you just didn't know what to do? Correct?

493
00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:25.319
I believe?

494
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:25.440
So?

495
00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:29.559
Yes, Okay, were you all drinking?

496
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:31.519
He was?

497
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:33.000
He was?

498
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:35.079
Yes? He was.

499
00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:40.880
An uh altercation That was the night before too, But

500
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:43.839
I left the house and took my children with me

501
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:45.640
because he was danty unto.

502
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:50.680
Were your kids there last night during this office ca?

503
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.359
Oh they were not the We're not Yeah, no, no, no, no.

504
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.799
I know you first said that you thought he had

505
00:25:58.359 --> 00:25:59.240
a heart attack.

506
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:01.039
So do you think with a heart attack.

507
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.599
Or do you think it was due to the stabbing

508
00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:08.880
that he passed away? So probably the stabbings triggered it.

509
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:13.480
I guess, I don't know. It's the shoulder wound. If

510
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:14.720
it's the shoulder.

511
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:16.200
Wom why.

512
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.759
At nine one one operator seemed dubious, a little incredulous.

513
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:23.319
Maybe yeah.

514
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:26.119
The call went on from there. We weren't able to

515
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.119
find the rest of the audio, but later on the call,

516
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:32.119
Danielle elaborates on the altercation. She said it started around

517
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.960
ten thirty pm and that Michael tried to choke her

518
00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.400
or suffocate her. She next said that she went for

519
00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.400
the knife and Michael taunted her, saying what are you

520
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:43.240
going to do with that? Are you going to stab me?

521
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:46.720
Then she said he grabbed the knife from her, made

522
00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:49.680
a stabbing motion as if he were going to stab himself,

523
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:53.400
and then she went into the bathroom. When asked why

524
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:57.359
she didn't call nine one one, sooner. Danielle said, quote, yeah,

525
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:01.119
I'm on probation and I was afraid. I didn't think

526
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:03.400
anyone would believe me, and I was just trying to

527
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.319
get him to wake up. She said she was exhausted

528
00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:09.200
and fell asleep, then tried to hurt herself in the morning.

529
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.079
At the end of the call, as police and paramedics

530
00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.200
were showing up, she said to the operator, quote, it

531
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:18.960
doesn't look good for me to summarize. Danielle called nine

532
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.880
one one eleven hours after she said that Michael had

533
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.000
stabbed himself. First, she claimed that he had a heart attack.

534
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:28.880
Then she said they had an altercation and Michael stabbed himself,

535
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:31.880
but that she believed the stabbing caused him to have

536
00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:35.400
a heart attack. She was very specific with the details

537
00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:37.640
of that part of the story, her grabbing the knife,

538
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.440
Michael taunting her, taking the knife away, and making stabbing

539
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:44.839
motions towards himself. She said. After she emerged from the

540
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.839
bathroom and found him on the floor, she performed CPR,

541
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.240
but got tired and fell asleep next to his body.

542
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.359
Then she woke up the next morning and finally called

543
00:27:54.440 --> 00:27:55.000
nine one one.

544
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:57.519
So what do you make of Danielle's story?

545
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.119
It sounds a little out there, And why did she

546
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:04.440
not call? Well, I know she fell allegedly fell asleep,

547
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:06.559
so we're supposed to believe she fell asleep, slept there

548
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:07.279
till morning.

549
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:10.440
Right, Yeah, it just doesn't The whole thing doesn't add up,

550
00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:10.759
does it.

551
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:13.799
No, we'll be back after a break.

552
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.799
Paramedics and police arrived to find Danielle crying. She had

553
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.759
slit her wrists, but the bleeding had stopped by this time.

554
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:33.680
Paramedics bandaged her wrists up and transported her to the hospital. Inside,

555
00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:36.359
officers found the body of Michael Redlick lying in the

556
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:41.200
living room, shirtless, face up, arms stretched out. Officers observed

557
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:43.400
the wound to his shoulder, as well as a small

558
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.160
cut near his left eye. There was blood everywhere. Michael's

559
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:50.759
jeans appeared to be saturated with blood. Blood was smeared

560
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.319
on the floor in a trail from the primary bedroom

561
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:56.519
to the primary bathroom. There was blood on the baseboards

562
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.079
in the bathroom. There was a folded pair of women's

563
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.880
pants near the bathroom room with blood on them. There

564
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.599
was a large, bloody serrated knife on the floor at

565
00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:07.359
the entry of the kitchen. In the kitchen sink, there

566
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:09.920
were three more kitchen knives that appeared to have blood

567
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:13.440
on them. There were bloody footprints near Michael's body, near

568
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:16.559
the couch and on the living room rug. It was

569
00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:19.000
obvious to the detectives that there had been an attempt

570
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:22.119
at cleaning the scene. They noticed a strong smell of

571
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:25.319
bleach on entering the house and there were circular markings

572
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:27.440
on the floor as if someone had tried to wipe

573
00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:30.680
up the blood. Bloody towels were found in a pile.

574
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.319
There was a mop with blood on it and a

575
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.480
bucket full of pink liquid nearby. Michael's shirt was found

576
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:39.720
in the pile of towels. It had a tear in

577
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:42.680
it consistent with where the knife wound in his shoulder was,

578
00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:46.319
indicating that it had been removed after he was stabbed.

579
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:49.559
There was a McDonald's bag in the garbage with blood

580
00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.960
on it. Detectives found a receipt from McDonald's showing a

581
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.920
quarter pounder and fries were purchased. At nine forty three

582
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.240
pm on the eleventh, detective war of the winter Park

583
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:02.119
Police Department and it went to the hospital to interview Danielle.

584
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:06.359
Danielle provided some background information about their marital troubles and

585
00:30:06.599 --> 00:30:09.039
Michael finding out that she had been messaging a guy

586
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:11.319
on a dating site and how that led to the

587
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.640
fight on January tenth. But when it came to describing

588
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:17.480
the events on the eleventh that resulted in Michael's death,

589
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:20.960
she refused to talk. She did, however, talk to an

590
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.160
agent with the Department of Children and Families or DCF,

591
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.559
who came to speak with her in the hospital. Danielle

592
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:29.440
was going to be held for a few days due

593
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:31.920
to her suicide attempt, so the purpose of the visit

594
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:35.200
was to discuss what should happen to the children. However,

595
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.319
the police had another purpose in mind. They spoke with

596
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.960
the DCF agent before she met with Danielle and prepped

597
00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:44.359
her to try and get more information about what happened.

598
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:47.480
The agent didn't inform Danielle of her right to an

599
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:50.480
attorney or that she was working with the police, and

600
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:54.039
she shared the interview with the police afterwards. This was

601
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:56.960
a bit of an underhanded move by the investigators, sort

602
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:00.319
of a sneaky way to get Danielle to talk. In

603
00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:03.240
this interview, Danielle shared more details about what she said

604
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:06.519
happened on the night of the eleventh. First, she said

605
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:09.599
that she and Michael had exchanged numerous text messages on

606
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:12.839
the eleventh, continuing their argument from the day before about

607
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.200
the guy that Danielle had been messaging. That evening, she

608
00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:18.720
stopped at mc donald's and was eating her burger at

609
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:21.359
home when Michael came up to her, took a bite

610
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:24.079
of her hamburger and angrily spit it into her face.

611
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:27.200
At that point, she said, Michael grabbed her arms and

612
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:29.960
pushed her to the ground. She was able to get up,

613
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:31.799
but then he pushed her head down on the stove

614
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:35.119
and rubbed his fist into her face. While she struggled,

615
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:37.559
She said, he put his hands over her face, covering

616
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:40.319
her nose and mouth. In fear for her life, she

617
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.960
grabbed a knife from a nearby drawer, but he took

618
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:45.759
it from her. She then repeated the same story she

619
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.240
had told the nine one one operator that he had

620
00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.599
made a stabbing motion with the knife towards himself. She

621
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:54.599
ran to the bathroom and locked the door. She said

622
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:57.319
he came to the door and kept saying Sam Katy,

623
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:00.839
which apparently was a reference to the movie Cape that

624
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.799
they had seen three weeks prior. Now, the character in

625
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.359
that movie is actually named Max Katie. Sam Bowden was

626
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.759
the name of the other character played by Nick Nolty,

627
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.319
So I'm not sure if she got that wrong or

628
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.440
if he got it wrong, but in any case, she

629
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:18.160
said he kept saying Sam Katy, she said. Eventually he

630
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.119
was quiet. She opened the door and saw blood on

631
00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:23.920
the floor. She followed the trail to the living room,

632
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:27.440
where she found Michael motionless on the floor. She said

633
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:29.720
she looked for her phone but couldn't find it. She

634
00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.880
kept slipping in the blood on the floor, and so

635
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.279
she grabbed a towel to wipe up some of the blood,

636
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.400
and then checked to see if Michael was alive. She

637
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:39.559
took his shirt off to see the stab wound and

638
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.359
tried CPR for a very long time until she was

639
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:44.799
exhausted and collapsed next to him.

640
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:47.839
You're probably going to get into this, but how bad

641
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:49.519
was the stab wound? How deep was it?

642
00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:52.119
It was deep enough that it cut through a vein

643
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:55.960
that was a very important vein. She said that she

644
00:32:56.039 --> 00:32:58.799
thought about calling the police, but couldn't find her phone

645
00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.960
When she woke on Saturday morning, the twelfth, she made

646
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:04.319
another attempt to clean up the blood on the floors.

647
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.519
She then decided to slit her wrists, which she did

648
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.400
in the kitchen at some point after that. She would

649
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:13.319
later say she couldn't remember how long she called nine

650
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:17.839
one one. The autopsy took place on Sunday, January thirteenth.

651
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:21.720
In addition to the fatal stab wound to Michael's left shoulder,

652
00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:25.839
there were other injuries found in the external examination. There

653
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.200
was a small wound on his face near his left

654
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:31.359
eye made by a sharp instrument, a contusion on the

655
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.799
inside of his upper lip, faint bruises on his chest,

656
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.640
an area of bruises on his upper left arm, and

657
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:41.240
also on his wrist. There was not, however, any bruising

658
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:44.319
on Michael's chest where one would expect it if someone

659
00:33:44.359 --> 00:33:48.160
had been performing CPR. The cause of death was clearly

660
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:51.440
the stab wound to his left shoulder. The knife severed

661
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.440
a large vein and also punctured his lung, leading to

662
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:59.279
significant blood loss, which killed him. The medical examiner estimated

663
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:01.319
that it would have taken in five to six minutes

664
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:03.480
for him to bleed out. He may have been able

665
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.599
to walk around for part of that time, but would

666
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:07.920
have felt the effects of the blood loss pretty quickly.

667
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:11.360
There was no sign of a heart attack. The medical

668
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:14.360
examiner also determined that the stab wound could not have

669
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:18.480
been self inflicted. The manner of death was ruled homicide.

670
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.679
At this point, you may be wondering whether Danielle had

671
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:24.480
any injuries to her body other than the self inflicted

672
00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:27.559
cuts on her wrist. There was a light colored bruise

673
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.639
on her left upper arm that the paramedic observed. The

674
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:33.960
er doctor who examined Danielle noted that she didn't complain

675
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:36.840
of any other injuries. There was no trauma to her

676
00:34:36.880 --> 00:34:40.960
head or neck, which might have indicated choking, no neurological trauma,

677
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:45.239
no tenderness anywhere. A sample of Danielle's blood was taken

678
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.360
at eleven thirty on the morning of the twelfth and

679
00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:49.840
tested while she told the nine to one to one

680
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:52.559
operator that only Michael had been drinking the night before,

681
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:55.840
Her blood detected alcohol at a level of greater than

682
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:59.800
ten milligrams per desolat. That's not much. It translates to

683
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:02.639
point oh one or point oh two blood alcohol level.

684
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:05.239
Point oh eight is the legal limit for driving in

685
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:08.280
most states. But keep in mind this was thirteen hours

686
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:11.960
after the altercation, so it's likely that she was intoxicated

687
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.960
at some point the night before, and remember she was

688
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.719
still on probation at the time and prohibited from drinking.

689
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:21.280
Do you know how long it takes to metabolize alcohol.

690
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.119
A quick Google search tells me that it's about one

691
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.320
drink per hour that is metabolized by your body.

692
00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:30.960
A search warrant for Danielle's phone was obtained and it

693
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:35.079
was seized. There were a few interesting things to note. First,

694
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.559
Danielle had told the DCF investigator that she and Michael

695
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:42.159
had exchanged numerous texts on the tenth and eleventh leading

696
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:45.079
up to the altercation, but there were no texts between

697
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:48.159
Danielle and Michael on her phone. She had deleted them

698
00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:51.639
all prior to calling nine to one one. Remember that

699
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:54.559
Danielle's original story was that on the night of the eleventh,

700
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.519
after finding Michael laying on the living room floor, she

701
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:00.800
wanted to call nine one one but couldn't find her phone.

702
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:05.159
Her phone records contradicted that story, showing that at ten

703
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.639
fifty two pm, twenty minutes after she said the altercation started,

704
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:13.199
she dialed nine one one, nine one one on her phone.

705
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:16.599
The call didn't go through, though, because that's not a

706
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:19.599
valid number, and she didn't attempt to call nine one

707
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:24.199
one again for almost eleven hours. If she dialed nine

708
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:27.239
one one, nine one one, she still dialed nine one one.

709
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:29.199
It's just because she dialed.

710
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:31.239
It in she should. Like on a cell phone, if

711
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:34.800
you dial nine one one, nine one one, it's going

712
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.159
to think it's a six digit phone number you're trying

713
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:38.079
to call, Okay.

714
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:42.360
Danielle was, however, active on her phone after the nine

715
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.280
one one, nine one one call. She was in her

716
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:48.280
phone messaging app and although we can't be sure, the

717
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:52.199
activity found by the forensic examiner was consistent with someone

718
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:55.559
deleting a bunch of messages. So the speculation was that

719
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:58.559
Danielle was deleting the messages between her and Michael during

720
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:02.559
that time and all so deleting the messages between herself

721
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:07.159
and Caesar that had originally sparked the fight. I always

722
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:10.039
get confused by this. This happened in twenty nineteen, so

723
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:13.920
not that long ago. The messages. She deleted the messages

724
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:16.079
and they weren't able to retrieve them.

725
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:18.639
Yeah, it is kind of strange. I think sometimes you

726
00:37:18.800 --> 00:37:23.199
can and sometimes you can't. And the phone forensics guy

727
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:26.719
testified later and he said that, you know, they couldn't

728
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:28.880
even be sure that she was deleting the messages at

729
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.320
this time, Like they just don't know one hundred percent.

730
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:34.559
He said. Sometimes you can retrieve deleted messages and sometimes

731
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:34.920
you can't.

732
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:38.360
It's such an inaccurate science, it really is. But wouldn't

733
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:40.519
they have been able to retrieve them from Michael's phone?

734
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:40.920
Yeah?

735
00:37:41.000 --> 00:37:43.199
I wondered the same thing. And in my research, I

736
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:46.000
didn't find anything out about Michael's phone. I think that

737
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:49.159
it's possible that they couldn't get into his phone, that

738
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.239
it was locked and had a password. And I do

739
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:57.039
remember a mention that he had an Android phone, and

740
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:00.320
Android phones are more secure, like it's harder to to

741
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:02.519
hack into it if you're the police. So I think

742
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:03.719
that may be the case.

743
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:08.280
I know you know my phone pass code, because it's

744
00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:13.000
it's really impenetrable. Yes, I don't know yours? Do I

745
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:13.559
know yours?

746
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:14.000
Yeah?

747
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:14.239
You do?

748
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:14.679
Oh?

749
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:16.400
Okay does it start with an eight?

750
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:18.239
Yes, it starts with an eight.

751
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.400
Okay, what does mine.

752
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:20.480
Start with a zero?

753
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:24.000
It sure does. It might end with the zero too.

754
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:30.880
Please don't hack into my phone. Eventually, really, there's nothing

755
00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:32.719
out like you would be you would be sad for

756
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:35.719
me because my phone is so boring. Eventually, at twelve

757
00:38:35.840 --> 00:38:38.480
twenty am on the twelfth, she plugged her phone into

758
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:42.039
a charger and stopped using it between twelve forty three

759
00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:46.360
and seven twenty am. Data from the Meat Mindful dating

760
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:49.159
app showed that on the twelfth and seven to twenty

761
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:51.880
two am, two minutes after unplugging it from the charger,

762
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:55.000
in two hours before Danielle called nine to one one,

763
00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:57.960
she accessed the Meat Mindful website.

764
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:01.480
So that actually sounds because it sounds like she was

765
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:04.039
on this dating website while her husband was lying dead

766
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.039
in the other room and she hadn't yet called nine

767
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:08.280
one one. But one thing I just want to point out,

768
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:11.840
we need to be careful here because the detectives made

769
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.519
a big deal of this, like, oh, she's on this

770
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.519
dating site while her husband's lying in the other.

771
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:17.280
I would assume she's deleting her profile.

772
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:20.360
No, it wasn't even that. What I believe happened here

773
00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:24.280
is very much like other cases. Karen Reid as an example,

774
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.639
she was on the Meat Mindful website the day before

775
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:30.719
and then she closed her browser down, and so when

776
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:32.960
she picked her phone back up and opened her browser

777
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:34.039
it may have reloaded that.

778
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:37.880
Page within a minute of accessing the meat Mindful site.

779
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.559
At seven twenty two am, she began using her phone

780
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:45.320
to research suicide. She searched on Google for slitting wrists

781
00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:47.559
and then went to Quora to view a page called

782
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:51.360
how do you slit wrists? Almost an hour later, at

783
00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:54.239
eight twenty one am, she googled how long before you

784
00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:57.719
die if you split your wrists. Her phone data showed

785
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:00.800
that she was using her phone actively up to the

786
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:03.840
time she finally called nine one one at nine twenty

787
00:40:03.880 --> 00:40:08.480
eight a. M. D'anielle was arrested on February fifth, twenty nineteen,

788
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.519
three and a half weeks after Michael's death. She was

789
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:14.360
charged with second degree murder with a weapon in tampering

790
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:18.039
with physical evidence. In Florida, second degree murder is the

791
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:22.239
unlawful killing of a person without premeditation, but with a

792
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:26.199
depraved mind and disregard for human life. She was ordered

793
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:28.719
to be held without bail due to the strength of

794
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:32.000
the case against her and the determination that she was

795
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.239
a danger to the community. She was also ordered to

796
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.280
have no unsupervised contact with her kids and not to

797
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:41.760
consume any alcohol or possess any weapons. If she did

798
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:45.679
get released. Eventually, with their father, dad, and their mother

799
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:49.239
in jail, Jaden and Sawyer fifteen eleven moved in with

800
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:52.920
the family of one of Jaden's best friends. The family

801
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:55.159
already knew Jaden well, as she had been staying the

802
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:57.760
night there on average two to three nights a week

803
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:01.280
for the two years before Michael's death, which hopefully made

804
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.960
the transition easier for them. Were there no other relatives

805
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:06.360
for the children to stay with.

806
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:08.599
I don't know a lot about the family situation. I

807
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:11.639
know that all of Danielle's other relatives were in Ohio.

808
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.000
I know her mom had passed away. I don't know

809
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:16.679
what happened to her dad. She had siblings, but they

810
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:18.639
were all in Ohio, so I think that it probably

811
00:41:18.679 --> 00:41:21.920
made more sense for the kids to stay there. As

812
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:24.519
the weeks and months went on leading to Danielle's trial,

813
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:28.920
her defense team filed several motions They tried unsuccessfully to

814
00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.360
convince a judge to allow Danielle to post bail. They

815
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:35.960
were also unsuccessful in getting Danielle's interview with the Department

816
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:39.760
of Family and Children's investigator excluded from the trial. Her

817
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:43.000
attorneys argued that the DCF already knew that the children

818
00:41:43.079 --> 00:41:46.159
were safe, and their only reason to interview Danielle was

819
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:49.239
to gather information for the police, and that was done

820
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.320
without informing Danielle of her rights. I think they actually

821
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:54.639
have a pretty good point here, but the judge did

822
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.880
not agree with that. Another blow to the defense came

823
00:41:57.960 --> 00:42:00.719
when the judge prohibited them from presenting any evidence of

824
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:06.519
Michael's intoxication or allegations of prior aggressive behavior. This included

825
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:09.400
testimony from a woman who came forward after his death

826
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:12.559
and claimed that he had sexually assaulted her decades ago.

827
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:15.239
I should clarify here. As I read this now, I

828
00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:17.760
realized it might be a little confusing. They were allowed

829
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:21.039
to talk about Michael's prior behavior toward Danielle, but not

830
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:26.599
anything prior to that in other relationships. The defense was successful, however,

831
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:29.199
in a motion that would allow Danielle to claim self

832
00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:32.599
defense in her trial, the assistant Dia argued that it

833
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:35.920
didn't make sense for Danielle to claim self defense as

834
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.039
she had never admitted to stabbing Michael. The only time

835
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:42.800
she spoke with authorities, she maintained that he had stabbed himself,

836
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:46.719
But the judge disagreed. At some point. Prior to the trial,

837
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:49.320
there was talk of a plea deal. We don't know

838
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.760
the specific terms of the deal that was offered, but

839
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:55.440
it would have involved Danielle pleading guilty to manslaughter. She

840
00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:58.000
rejected the deal and opted to put her fate into

841
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:01.599
the hands of a jury. In June twenty twenty two,

842
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:03.840
after waiting in jail for three and a half years,

843
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:07.719
Danielle's case finally went to trial. Six jurors and two

844
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:11.559
alternates were seated. After interviewing one hundred potential jurors over

845
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:16.039
three days. The prosecution's case was clear. Danielle had a

846
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:19.519
history of anger issues triggered by drinking. She and Michael

847
00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:22.119
had a toxic relationship, and during a fight on the

848
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.280
evening of January eleventh, she grabbed a kitchen knife and

849
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:28.679
stabbed Michael. Then, rather than calling nine one one and

850
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:32.000
getting help, she waited. She slid her wrists the next

851
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:34.559
morning because she felt guilty about what she had done.

852
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:38.519
In their opening statement, Danielle's lawyers tried to convince the

853
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:41.800
jury that Michael Redlick was the aggressor that night. He

854
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.960
was in a rage due to finding messages between Danielle

855
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.760
and another man on her phone. That rage was exacerbated

856
00:43:48.840 --> 00:43:52.480
by his drinking and perhaps the testosterone treatments he had

857
00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:55.880
been taking. In their narrative, Danielle had been afraid for

858
00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:59.039
her life, so she grabbed a knife and stabbed Michael

859
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:02.199
once in the shoulder before running away. This is the

860
00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:05.880
first time that Danielle actually admitted that she stabbed Michael

861
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:10.360
and that he hadn't stabbed himself. The prosecution called a

862
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:13.679
series of witnesses who described the crime scene, the results

863
00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:18.199
of Michael's autopsy, Danielle's cell phone data, and other altercations

864
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:21.840
between Michael and Danielle where Danielle had been the aggressor.

865
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:25.519
One of the biggest moments in the prosecution's case was

866
00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:31.239
when Jaden Redlick, now eighteen, testified against her mother. Her testimony,

867
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:34.519
along with her brother Sawyers, weren't recorded, but we have

868
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.119
some information from the news media that were there while

869
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:40.880
Danielle cried in the courtroom. Jaden said that she had

870
00:44:40.920 --> 00:44:43.440
been close to her father, but described her mother as

871
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:48.000
quote very toxic, very manipulative end quote. She said her

872
00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:52.639
parents' relationship was tumultuous and not healthy. When asked who

873
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:55.480
was the primary source of the toxicity, Jaden said that

874
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:59.239
it was her mother. She remembered the family's last Christmas

875
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.199
together as good. Her father was happy to be at

876
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:05.800
home again and to have the family altogether. She also

877
00:45:05.920 --> 00:45:08.840
testified to the fight that erupted on January tenth when

878
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.800
her dad found the messages between her mom and another man,

879
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:15.159
and how she physically got in between them to try

880
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:18.880
and calm things down. Jaden also testified that her mom

881
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:21.559
lied to her and told her the autopsy determined the

882
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:25.000
cause of death to be a heart attack. Jaden said, quote,

883
00:45:25.360 --> 00:45:27.840
I remember very vividly we were on the front porch.

884
00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:31.320
I remember her exact words were, the autopsy said he

885
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:34.480
had a heart attack. End quote. We don't really have

886
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:37.840
any information about Sawyer's testimony, who was fourteen at the

887
00:45:37.880 --> 00:45:41.960
time of the trial. After the prosecution finished with their witnesses,

888
00:45:42.039 --> 00:45:45.199
it was the defense's turn. Their first witness caused a

889
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:48.480
stir in the courtroom. Danielle Redlick was going to testify

890
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:51.880
on her own behalf. I don't have statistics, but it's

891
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.119
rare for a defendant in a murder trial to take

892
00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:57.320
the stand in their own defense. It's often considered a

893
00:45:57.400 --> 00:46:00.400
hail mary done in desperation. If things aren't going well

894
00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:04.159
in Danielle's case, if she was going to claim self defense,

895
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:07.199
then she was the only witness who could really testify

896
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:09.880
as to what happened between the two of them that night.

897
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:14.320
She testified for over five hours, spanning across two days.

898
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:18.360
Her lawyer started out right away establishing that Danielle did

899
00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:22.000
indeed stab her husband and her reasons for doing.

900
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:26.000
So was right, like on January eleventh, twenty nineteen, did

901
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:26.880
you stab your husband?

902
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:27.800
I did?

903
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:29.559
Yes.

904
00:46:30.599 --> 00:46:30.800
Wow.

905
00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:34.599
He was suffocating me. I couldn't breathe and he had

906
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:39.400
me been down. Well, I was scared, and you know

907
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:41.599
it was just in fear for my life. He had

908
00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:43.719
thought he snapped and I could die.

909
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:47.039
She said that it wasn't the first time that Michael

910
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.400
had attacked her, but it was one of the scariest.

911
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:53.159
After that, they backed up, and she described the unique

912
00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:56.519
circumstances of how she met Michael through her mom's relationship

913
00:46:56.599 --> 00:47:00.440
and marriage. She testified that the physical violence started early

914
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:03.480
in their relationship when they were in Memphis. She said

915
00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:06.360
he would grab her in a controlling way, man handling

916
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:10.280
her and occasionally slamming her against a wall. She described

917
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:12.920
the first time, he hit her in the face, causing

918
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.559
her to bleed from her nose and mouth. Here she

919
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:18.599
is describing another time that she said Michael got violent

920
00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:19.480
with her in.

921
00:47:19.719 --> 00:47:24.880
One particular incident, and I remember he was coming home

922
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:27.199
from work every day and he was pretty agitated. Something

923
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:29.400
was really bothering him. I just remember that it was

924
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.159
something had to do with something with two of his bosses,

925
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:36.559
and he was coming home and he was born to

926
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:40.760
drink each night. And I was still pretty young at

927
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:42.480
that point. So I grew up in a house where

928
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:45.199
you eat dinner every night. And I noticed that Michael,

929
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:47.559
when he would drink, he would skip dinner.

930
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:50.840
And so he was doing this. By the third night,

931
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.519
I started to wonder, you know, are you going to

932
00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:55.199
keep doing this?

933
00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:58.000
I think I'm just going to go ahead and if

934
00:47:58.039 --> 00:47:59.320
you're not gonna eat dinner, I'm just going to go

935
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:01.239
down to the to the river. There's some you know,

936
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:04.480
a city walk where they have some shops and eateries

937
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:08.480
and stuff. And when I said that, he got irritated

938
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:10.079
and said, what are you mad? Because I don't want

939
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.480
to have dinner with you? And I said, well, yeah,

940
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:14.840
kind of at this point, because I said how's the

941
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:17.320
wallowing working out for you, and said something sarcastic. And

942
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:20.199
I went to head to the door to leave, and

943
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:22.760
he was near the door and he moved in front

944
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:26.920
of the door, and I tried to shove past him,

945
00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:32.159
and I feel like at that point, he raises his

946
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:35.320
fist and he just crossed me in the face, and

947
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:38.199
I feel like, I don't know, like he took out

948
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:41.440
every frustration that he had had that week on me.

949
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:47.880
And the next thing I remember was actually laying in

950
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:52.239
his lap and he was stroking me and he was apologizing.

951
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:53.400
He was crying, and.

952
00:48:55.639 --> 00:48:57.840
I had looked down and I had blood all over me,

953
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:01.639
and he was telling me how sorry he was, that

954
00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:04.960
he's going to take me out to a nice dinner tomorrow,

955
00:49:05.320 --> 00:49:06.840
and he wanted to go ahead and take care of me.

956
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:08.480
Let him take care of me that night.

957
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:12.280
The doctor for the Grizzlies later gave testimony that was

958
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.880
consistent with Danielle's story, although he stated that Michael had

959
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.760
also sustained injuries on that occasion. She went through the

960
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:22.880
history of their relationship, all the different moves the job

961
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:25.719
stress that Michael was under at various points, and the

962
00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:28.480
distance that grew between them during some of those moves.

963
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:32.639
She talked about finding out about Michael's low testosterone issues

964
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:35.559
and the medications and treatments that led to more bizarre

965
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:39.960
and aggressive behavior on his part. She testified about several

966
00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:44.039
incidents of abuse over the years, including sexual aggression, pushing,

967
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:47.480
man handling, striking her, and one time driving a car

968
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:51.199
at her. She also discussed first becoming aware of Michael's

969
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:55.559
infidelity in twenty eighteen after looking through his emails. She

970
00:49:55.719 --> 00:49:59.079
then detailed her version of the events that started January tenth,

971
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:02.360
when Michael found the messages between her and Caesar, the

972
00:50:02.440 --> 00:50:06.039
man she was chatting with through Meat Mindful. Her story

973
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:08.599
of what happened on the tenth was supported by texts

974
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:11.639
between her and her children showing that she had left

975
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.360
the house after their fight and was fearful to come

976
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:17.599
back home until Michael had passed out. She said he

977
00:50:17.719 --> 00:50:20.119
broke down the bathroom door at one point, which was

978
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:24.079
also supported by photos. Then she got into how she

979
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:27.480
said the stabbing happened. This clip is fairly long. It's

980
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:29.840
about four minutes. I've edited out a lot of the

981
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.559
extraneous stuff, but it should give you a clear picture

982
00:50:33.079 --> 00:50:35.480
of her story and how she said that the stabbing

983
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:36.320
actually occurred.

984
00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:39.480
So he comes over to you at the table, yes,

985
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:40.639
and he takes your phone.

986
00:50:41.079 --> 00:50:41.280
Yes.

987
00:50:41.880 --> 00:50:43.079
What does he do at that point?

988
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:45.239
He just walks to the right of me and then

989
00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:47.599
turns around pretty quickly and walks back toward me.

990
00:50:48.519 --> 00:50:50.000
And when he walks back towards you, what's he do?

991
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.039
Grabs my sandwich and walks to the left of me.

992
00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:57.199
Yeah. What next?

993
00:50:58.159 --> 00:50:59.840
He's standing kind of the left front of me, and

994
00:51:00.159 --> 00:51:07.679
he he's talking about Caesar, and then he spits the

995
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:08.199
food at me.

996
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:12.039
How does it progress from there after you spit the sandwich?

997
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:17.039
So then I just said okay, I grabbed the bag

998
00:51:17.079 --> 00:51:18.039
and I said, you know what, I think, I am

999
00:51:18.039 --> 00:51:20.199
going to go out with Caesar. And I start walking

1000
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:26.079
into the kitchen and I walk going to walk through

1001
00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:28.360
the kitchen and I'm turning to throw the bag of

1002
00:51:28.400 --> 00:51:31.639
food onto the center island, and that's when he comes

1003
00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:36.320
up behind me and grabs me. I just shift and

1004
00:51:36.639 --> 00:51:38.159
to the left and I trip up on my feet

1005
00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:42.480
and I follow the ground and then I hear I

1006
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:44.000
feel something hit me in the back of the head.

1007
00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:48.800
I try and get up and he's right on top

1008
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:49.000
of me.

1009
00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:51.400
So no, not all the way.

1010
00:51:53.559 --> 00:51:55.400
I was on my knees, so as I was coming up,

1011
00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:58.440
grabbed me by the collar, and I felt our heads

1012
00:51:58.519 --> 00:52:01.960
collide and and at that point I grabbed the center

1013
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:04.920
island and I reach up to pull myself up to

1014
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:10.360
face him this way, and that's when he takes his

1015
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:10.960
right hand.

1016
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:14.159
So he grabs me here and slams me down onto.

1017
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:18.400
The center island counter. He had my he had his hand.

1018
00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:23.199
He was holding my head down on the counter. So

1019
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:25.199
I'm just pinned up against the counter like this, and

1020
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:29.679
he's straddling my body here and has me pinned, and

1021
00:52:29.800 --> 00:52:33.719
so my arm's here and he's got his hand on

1022
00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:37.239
my head and he's holding it down. He's standing above

1023
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:40.960
me here this way, and he cocks his fist back.

1024
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:43.880
I can see him, and he's act like he's gonna

1025
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:46.360
punch me in the face. And he said, he comes

1026
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:47.760
down and he grinds his fist.

1027
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:51.559
Into my face and then puts his hands over my

1028
00:52:52.280 --> 00:52:55.119
both his hands over my hand and my nose, and

1029
00:52:55.239 --> 00:52:58.079
he's pressing as hard as he can, smashing my nose

1030
00:52:58.119 --> 00:52:58.639
in my face.

1031
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:00.719
I try to take the three or four breaths, and

1032
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:03.360
I couldn't even get a breath, So what do you do?

1033
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:04.119
What are you doing?

1034
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:05.480
All I can do?

1035
00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:09.079
So I'm I've got a free arm here, and the

1036
00:53:09.199 --> 00:53:10.760
drawer in front of me is the only thing I

1037
00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:13.199
can do, and I know that there's items in there.

1038
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.639
When you realize that you're able to breathe, what's in

1039
00:53:16.760 --> 00:53:22.199
your mind that he snapped and that he's probably gonna

1040
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:24.239
kill me? Why do you believe that?

1041
00:53:25.239 --> 00:53:26.840
Well, because I couldn't breathe and I was starting to

1042
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:28.519
freak out at that point, and he wasn't stopping.

1043
00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:34.599
So I use my free arm to push open the

1044
00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:35.280
drawer ahead of me.

1045
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:37.800
What do you gotten that for.

1046
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:40.239
A knife?

1047
00:53:41.800 --> 00:53:43.000
How does it continue from there?

1048
00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:47.280
Pulled the knife out and I don't know if he

1049
00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.239
saw it, but he released my head, so I'm able

1050
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:50.840
to move.

1051
00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:52.599
What are you gonna stab me?

1052
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:55.599
And I take the knife and I position it and

1053
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:56.480
face it toward him.

1054
00:53:57.719 --> 00:54:00.480
At the time you have the knife and you stab

1055
00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:03.000
him with it? What are you trying to do? What

1056
00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:04.519
is your goal here in your mind.

1057
00:54:06.039 --> 00:54:07.000
To get away from him?

1058
00:54:08.039 --> 00:54:11.320
Why if you don't do that, what is your belief

1059
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:11.880
that will happen?

1060
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:15.119
That he might smother me to death? Whatever he was

1061
00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:15.679
going to do to me?

1062
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:20.119
What do you do at that point?

1063
00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:24.880
I run? I run the opposite direction. I thought he

1064
00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:25.800
was still coming after me.

1065
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:29.280
So what does he do when the knife goes into

1066
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:32.599
his body? When you stab him? What is his reaction?

1067
00:54:33.800 --> 00:54:37.599
He just he backs away at that point, and he

1068
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:39.639
sort of backs away this way and I run the

1069
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:40.360
opposite direction.

1070
00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:43.360
What do you think of Danielle's testimony there?

1071
00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:47.559
I'm gonna be honest with you. I was eating pie

1072
00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:54.880
a lot of that testiment, okay, but I have a

1073
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:58.599
really bad memory, especially about like movements and things like that.

1074
00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:02.320
So when she's going to specifics about, you know, what

1075
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:06.440
happened from moment to moment to moment, right, it seems

1076
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:09.119
a little it's hard for me to believe. I'm not

1077
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.800
saying it can't be true, but it seemed like it

1078
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:13.039
had too much detail.

1079
00:55:13.320 --> 00:55:15.159
That was kind of one of my reactions too. I mean,

1080
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:19.400
she comes across as I think, very calm and believable

1081
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:20.800
in a lot of ways, but there are so many

1082
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:23.639
specific details that I wouldn't I wouldn't think after a

1083
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:26.639
fight like that you would remember all those details.

1084
00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:30.400
Right, it's a very traumatic event. I don't think your

1085
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:33.000
recall would be amazing. My recall wouldn't be amazing.

1086
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:33.239
Yeah.

1087
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:36.440
Same. She said that after she stabbed him, she had

1088
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:39.280
no idea that the wound could have been fatal. She

1089
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:41.360
hid in the bathroom, worried that he was going to

1090
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:43.639
come after her. She said she heard him for a

1091
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:46.840
while he was being loud and yelling her name. After

1092
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:49.400
a while, she didn't hear him anymore. She kept waiting,

1093
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:51.719
wondering if he had left or if he was waiting

1094
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:55.280
to attack her. She finally came out after fifteen minutes

1095
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:57.599
or so and saw blood on the floor outside the

1096
00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:01.039
bathroom door. She said that she was alarmed because it

1097
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:03.840
was quite a bit of blood. She followed the blood

1098
00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:05.960
trail into the living room, where she saw Michael on

1099
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:08.880
the floor and yelled his name. She went closer and

1100
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:12.039
touched his face, but got no response. At this point,

1101
00:56:12.199 --> 00:56:15.079
she started to panic. She started looking for her phone

1102
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:18.199
and finally found it on the couch. Rather than calling

1103
00:56:18.280 --> 00:56:20.000
nine to one one at that point, she said, she

1104
00:56:20.119 --> 00:56:23.239
decided to try CPR on him, but didn't get any response.

1105
00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:26.440
Then she tried to dial nine one one, but accidentally

1106
00:56:26.519 --> 00:56:29.639
dialed it twice and it didn't connect. At this point,

1107
00:56:29.760 --> 00:56:32.719
she says she went into full blown shock. Instead of

1108
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:34.920
dialing nine to one one again, she went and grabbed

1109
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:38.360
some towels and started wiping up the blood. She referred

1110
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:41.119
to her actions at this point as a quote series

1111
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:45.639
of really bad decisions quote. Around this time, she deleted

1112
00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:48.880
the texts from Caesar and the texts between her and Michael,

1113
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:54.199
but she couldn't explain why she wasn't thinking rationally. She said, hmmm, so.

1114
00:56:54.239 --> 00:56:56.440
We're to believe that she is in shock, but she

1115
00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:59.679
is taking the steps that one would take if they

1116
00:56:59.719 --> 00:57:02.480
were trying to cover up their crime.

1117
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:05.840
Yeah, that's a really good point. She continued on with

1118
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:08.199
the same story she had told earlier, that she fell

1119
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:10.880
asleep next to Michael, woke up the next morning and

1120
00:57:10.960 --> 00:57:14.199
decided to slit her wrists after googling it. She took

1121
00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:17.199
a sharp knife and cut her wrists. But then, she says,

1122
00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:19.000
she decided to call nine one one.

1123
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:21.199
You wake up? What are you doing?

1124
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:29.880
I look around at the horror scene, and I don't

1125
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:31.599
know what to do. I know that I have to

1126
00:57:31.639 --> 00:57:38.079
call nine one one, that's for sure, and I start

1127
00:57:38.119 --> 00:57:38.920
thinking about my kids.

1128
00:57:39.719 --> 00:57:41.119
So did you call nine one one then?

1129
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:42.039
Not?

1130
00:57:42.159 --> 00:57:42.719
At that point?

1131
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:45.159
What do you do next?

1132
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.360
I think I got on my phone and I started

1133
00:57:51.400 --> 00:57:53.920
to think about I was thinking about my kids, like

1134
00:57:53.960 --> 00:57:58.199
I said, and I thought, you know, maybe maybe it's

1135
00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:03.760
just better that I go with him. And so then

1136
00:58:03.800 --> 00:58:08.880
I googled you know, how to slit your wrists, and

1137
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:11.159
that's what I attempted to do at that point.

1138
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:17.079
At some point, do you ever call anyone.

1139
00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:19.800
Well nine one one?

1140
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:24.119
Why do you go from wanting to slit your wrist

1141
00:58:24.199 --> 00:58:26.159
to calling nine one one? What change is there?

1142
00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:35.039
You know?

1143
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:37.760
I heard something say not like this, Danielle.

1144
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:38.320
I not like this.

1145
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:42.440
Your kids don't need you, didn't need to be without

1146
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:43.119
both parents.

1147
00:58:44.480 --> 00:58:46.119
She said that she lied to the nine to one

1148
00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:48.760
one operator because she was scared, didn't know how to

1149
00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:53.239
handle the situation, and didn't want to incriminate herself. We'll

1150
00:58:53.280 --> 00:59:03.800
be back after a break. On cross examination, the prosecutor

1151
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:08.239
went after Danielle aggressively. He highlighted her hypocrisy and writing

1152
00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:12.159
Michael an email on December fourteenth, twenty eighteen, calling him

1153
00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:14.440
a lying, rotten son of a bitch because she had

1154
00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:18.599
found a LinkedIn exchange between Michael and a woman, while

1155
00:59:18.639 --> 00:59:20.800
at the same time she was messaging men through her

1156
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:24.639
dating app without Michael's knowledge. The prosecutor tried to make

1157
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:27.599
the case that more than anything, Danielle wanted a life

1158
00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:31.159
without Michael. He had Danielle walk through the struggle that

1159
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:34.760
resulted in Michael's death, once again pushing her to provide

1160
00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:38.519
specific details on the timeline and the exact positioning of

1161
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:41.840
Michael and her during the struggle. He also pressed her

1162
00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:43.960
on all the lies that she told during the nine

1163
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:47.280
to one one call and to the DCF agent. Here's

1164
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:50.119
a montage of some of the more fiery exchanges. It's

1165
00:59:50.119 --> 00:59:52.400
about four minutes long, but I think it's pretty interesting

1166
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:52.760
to hear.

1167
00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:57.119
And actually, yesterday you said that you felt like the

1168
00:59:57.239 --> 01:00:01.400
attack was still ongoing, Right, it had not ceased. Yes,

1169
01:00:01.800 --> 01:00:04.920
And while the attack is still ongoing, you let go

1170
01:00:05.320 --> 01:00:06.800
of this deadly instrument.

1171
01:00:06.960 --> 01:00:12.719
Correct, When the attack was still ongoing was after I

1172
01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:13.039
let go?

1173
01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:18.559
Meaning yes, you felt the attack was still ongoing after

1174
01:00:18.639 --> 01:00:22.079
you stabbed him. Yes, And in that moment where you

1175
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:25.119
say the attack was still ongoing, you let go of

1176
01:00:25.239 --> 01:00:28.840
the weapon and it drops or not. I don't know

1177
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:33.320
what your testimony is today. Correct, you let go of

1178
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:35.320
me and then I let go, But you thought the

1179
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:38.639
threat was still there? Yes, and you let go of

1180
01:00:38.760 --> 01:00:41.599
the weapon. Yes, in the immediate proximity of your attack

1181
01:00:41.679 --> 01:00:46.599
or correct, Yes, So you stood in that home with

1182
01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:49.880
the power to call for help, and you let your

1183
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.000
husband bleed to death on that floor.

1184
01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:55.440
It had already bled to death when I was doing it,

1185
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:58.800
blowing into his mouth. I was wondering if I could

1186
01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:00.960
recover or something him or something I.

1187
01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:03.280
Didn't which one is it? Is he dead or you

1188
01:01:03.360 --> 01:01:04.800
think it's possible to say?

1189
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:06.760
If he could be recovered, something would have to be

1190
01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:10.679
done immediately, And so yes, I thought perhaps I should

1191
01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:10.880
do that.

1192
01:01:11.800 --> 01:01:14.559
You did not believe that your husband had a heart attack.

1193
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:18.320
Instrot, Actually I did, well. I was hoping too.

1194
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:21.039
You're hoping, not in the morbid sense that I wanted

1195
01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:26.639
him dead, but he had had heart problems, and I thought,

1196
01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:29.960
with all of that excitement, that perhaps he did so

1197
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:31.119
because if he had a.

1198
01:01:31.159 --> 01:01:33.599
Heart attack, you wouldn't have been responsible for his death.

1199
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:36.199
Yes, to an extent.

1200
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:39.400
It's red like you did not slit your wrist because

1201
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:41.159
you wanted to be with Michael on the after life,

1202
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:41.440
did you.

1203
01:01:43.480 --> 01:01:46.000
I don't know if I was thinking rationally about anything

1204
01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:46.199
of that.

1205
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:48.079
It's right, like you slit your wrist because you didn't

1206
01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:50.039
want to be in that chair answering for what you're

1207
01:01:50.039 --> 01:01:51.760
having to answer for today. Isn't that true?

1208
01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:53.639
There were a lot of things going through my mind

1209
01:01:53.719 --> 01:01:54.519
and that was one of them.

1210
01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:56.119
That you didn't want to have to answer for what

1211
01:01:56.199 --> 01:01:58.440
you did, and so that's why you slit your wrists.

1212
01:01:59.440 --> 01:02:00.840
I was concer I was afraid.

1213
01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.440
One of the reasons why you slit your wrists is

1214
01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:08.079
because you didn't want to have to answer. Your answer

1215
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:09.079
didn't answer my question?

1216
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:14.320
Should not objection is over rule? Repeat your question, mister Wiggins.

1217
01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:17.880
One of the reasons why you slit your wrists is

1218
01:02:17.960 --> 01:02:19.960
because you didn't want to have to answer for what

1219
01:02:20.079 --> 01:02:20.400
you did.

1220
01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:25.320
I suppose there could be one.

1221
01:02:27.320 --> 01:02:30.159
How soon before you called nine one one did you

1222
01:02:30.199 --> 01:02:30.880
slit your wrists?

1223
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:33.280
I don't remember. I don't know.

1224
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:38.440
Well, how long did you let yourself bleed, Miss Redlick

1225
01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:40.000
before you dial nine one one?

1226
01:02:41.400 --> 01:02:44.960
I don't remember how long I bled? I just don't remember.

1227
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:45.360
I don't know.

1228
01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:50.519
You told Miss Tucker that you did not call nine

1229
01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:55.039
one one because you couldn't find your phone. Correct, Yes,

1230
01:02:55.360 --> 01:03:01.840
that was a lie. Yes, you told Miss Tucker that

1231
01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:05.360
Michael took the knife from your hand. That was a lie.

1232
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:06.880
I don't believe I said that.

1233
01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:10.559
You told miss Tucker that he made a stabbing motion

1234
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:14.840
toward himself. Correct, he said, what are you going to

1235
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:15.239
stab me?

1236
01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:16.440
But that's what I believe I.

1237
01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:20.199
Told her, and you told her something. If that was

1238
01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:22.760
an exact quote, you gave Miss Redlick the impression that

1239
01:03:23.039 --> 01:03:30.360
mister Redlick disarmed you and had the knife. Correct. Yes,

1240
01:03:31.400 --> 01:03:34.679
and that was a lie. Yes, you chose to lie.

1241
01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:38.719
I lied.

1242
01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:43.480
You chose to lie, Yes, Miss Redlick. You were willing

1243
01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:54.320
to lie if you think it'll serve your interests. Correct. No, well,

1244
01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:56.480
you thought it served your interest to lie to the

1245
01:03:56.559 --> 01:04:04.280
folks that we've talked about thus far, right, I.

1246
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:08.599
Think it served my interest of being confused and not

1247
01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:10.239
knowing how to handle the situation.

1248
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:14.079
The lie was serving your interests, you admit that. Yes,

1249
01:04:15.440 --> 01:04:17.960
So you were willing to lie if it serves your interests.

1250
01:04:20.519 --> 01:04:20.679
Yes.

1251
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:26.159
I just love listening to a good combative questioning of

1252
01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:27.800
somebody on the stand, and you just don't get to

1253
01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:30.400
hear it that much because most people don't take the

1254
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:34.000
stand in their own defense. So if you like me,

1255
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:36.639
enjoy that sort of thing. The whole trial is on

1256
01:04:36.800 --> 01:04:39.320
Court TV, so you can go and watch all of

1257
01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:42.800
Danielle's testimony. I didn't watch the whole trial, but I

1258
01:04:42.880 --> 01:04:45.360
did watch all of Danielle's testimony, which was five and

1259
01:04:45.400 --> 01:04:48.880
a half hours, and I watched other bits and pieces,

1260
01:04:48.960 --> 01:04:51.920
but I just found it fascinating. I think as a prosecutor,

1261
01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:54.880
you have to be a little careful, especially when the

1262
01:04:56.239 --> 01:04:59.639
defendant's defense is self defense and that she was a

1263
01:04:59.679 --> 01:05:01.880
batter woman, and so I think you have to be

1264
01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:04.559
careful not to come across as a bully or being

1265
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:06.760
too aggressive with her, which I think he kind of

1266
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:09.320
walked a fine line there, but I thought it was

1267
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:12.840
really interesting to hear. After Danielle left the stand, her

1268
01:05:12.880 --> 01:05:15.960
lawyers called several more witnesses, including the doctor for the

1269
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:19.400
Grizzlies who had seen Danielle after she had sustained injuries

1270
01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:22.079
during a fight with Michael, a friend who had seen

1271
01:05:22.119 --> 01:05:24.880
her with a black eye, and a repair man who

1272
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:28.079
had repaired broken down doors at their residence more than once.

1273
01:05:28.800 --> 01:05:31.159
Their goal was obvious to show that Danielle was a

1274
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:33.800
battered woman and that Michael Redlick had a history of

1275
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:37.920
physical abuse. After a week of testimony, the trial finally

1276
01:05:38.039 --> 01:05:40.639
came to a close. The jury was out for a

1277
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:43.559
total of four hours before coming back with their verdict.

1278
01:05:44.320 --> 01:05:45.719
What do you think it was?

1279
01:05:46.320 --> 01:05:47.559
I think she was found guilty.

1280
01:05:48.920 --> 01:05:52.840
You are incorrect. She was found not guilty of second

1281
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:55.920
degree murder, but guilty of tampering with evidence.

1282
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.199
Not that I necessarily think that she was guilty, but

1283
01:05:59.360 --> 01:06:00.960
I thought the jury you would find her guilty.

1284
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:01.239
Yeah.

1285
01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:04.639
I actually thought the same thing before I found out

1286
01:06:04.679 --> 01:06:05.599
the results as well.

1287
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:06.360
Well.

1288
01:06:06.400 --> 01:06:09.960
I googled a picture of her during her testimony, and

1289
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:11.760
she looked sad in the picture.

1290
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:15.440
Oh, she did look a lot of her testimony.

1291
01:06:15.519 --> 01:06:15.719
Yeah.

1292
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:20.039
Danielle's sentencing hearing took place on August fifth for the

1293
01:06:20.119 --> 01:06:23.440
tampering with evidence charge. Danielle was sentenced to time served

1294
01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:27.440
plus a year of probation. At the hearing, Danielle's attorney

1295
01:06:27.519 --> 01:06:31.320
presented the judge with six letters from character witnesses, including

1296
01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:34.199
several members of a Christian ministry group at the jail

1297
01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:38.599
where Danielle had been housed while awaiting trial. One read quote,

1298
01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:42.039
Danielle has dreams of helping other women and ministering to

1299
01:06:42.119 --> 01:06:45.239
the less fortunate. I believe Danielle has already paid a

1300
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:47.760
steep price and that she is eager and ready to

1301
01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:52.360
begin a new life unquote. On the other hand, Danielle's daughter, Jaden,

1302
01:06:52.440 --> 01:06:55.159
wrote a letter that was read in court. In part,

1303
01:06:55.280 --> 01:06:58.360
it read quote the only reason I am not personally

1304
01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:01.079
reading this statement is because I simply do not ever

1305
01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:03.719
want to be in a room with Danielle ever. Again.

1306
01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:06.800
I refuse to call her mother because she was never

1307
01:07:06.880 --> 01:07:09.519
a decent mother figure to me. My dad was no

1308
01:07:09.679 --> 01:07:13.800
angel and definitely had flaws, but he was so kind, gentle,

1309
01:07:13.920 --> 01:07:16.000
and he never laid a hand on a single person

1310
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:19.480
in my family unquote. Jaden went on to say that

1311
01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:22.199
she and her younger brother still suffered from nightmares and

1312
01:07:22.280 --> 01:07:25.760
trauma after their dad's killing. Quote, I have developed a

1313
01:07:25.840 --> 01:07:28.920
fear of being murdered. I lost everything at once and

1314
01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:31.199
it was broadcast to the world. We want to be

1315
01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:35.000
left in peace. End quote. Danielle shook with sobs as

1316
01:07:35.079 --> 01:07:37.320
this letter was read. It's just so sad.

1317
01:07:37.519 --> 01:07:38.480
That is very sad.

1318
01:07:39.199 --> 01:07:41.719
I wasn't able to find any information about what Danielle

1319
01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:44.159
has been up to since her trial, or whether she

1320
01:07:44.360 --> 01:07:47.599
has followed through on her dreams of helping other women

1321
01:07:47.719 --> 01:07:50.880
and ministering to the less fortunate. I also wasn't able

1322
01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:54.000
to find out anything about her children. I'm assuming that

1323
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:56.639
she ended up getting custody of Sawyer, who is still

1324
01:07:56.639 --> 01:07:58.360
a miner. But I can't confirm that.

1325
01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:02.480
Jade so that she'd never seen her father lay a

1326
01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:05.440
hand on her mother or anyone else for that matter.

1327
01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:09.880
But we know that she was a victim of domestic violence.

1328
01:08:10.039 --> 01:08:13.119
Yeah, we know that for sure. Jaden may not have witnessed,

1329
01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:17.199
you know, her dad hitting her mom directly. She definitely

1330
01:08:17.239 --> 01:08:20.279
witnessed them fighting or you know, getting into intense arguments,

1331
01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:22.800
but we don't know if she didn't, you know, if

1332
01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:25.079
she saw her dad lay a hand on her mom.

1333
01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:29.039
And you know, she's young too, and she's obviously been

1334
01:08:29.119 --> 01:08:32.399
through a lot and you know, supporting her dad here.

1335
01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:34.359
So you know, I think you can take what she

1336
01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:36.119
says with a little bit of a grain of salt.

1337
01:08:37.039 --> 01:08:39.319
So I'm curious what you thought of the verdict, but

1338
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:42.520
also the fact that she was charged with second degree

1339
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:46.039
murder instead of manslaughter. So I looked up the definitions.

1340
01:08:46.079 --> 01:08:50.680
In Florida. Second degree murder involves killing someone without premeditation

1341
01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:54.359
or planning, but with a depraved mind and no regard

1342
01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:59.359
for human life. Voluntary manslaughter involves intentionally killing someone in

1343
01:08:59.439 --> 01:09:04.279
the heat of passion, but without premeditation. Involuntary manslaughter is

1344
01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:07.760
when the defendant had no intent to kill, but accidentally

1345
01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:11.760
or inadvertently killed someone as a result of negligent, careless,

1346
01:09:11.880 --> 01:09:14.439
or dangerous behavior. So I'm just curious, what do you

1347
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:16.159
do you think that she should have been charged with

1348
01:09:16.359 --> 01:09:18.880
something different, and what do you think of the verdict?

1349
01:09:18.920 --> 01:09:20.399
I guess in general, I.

1350
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:23.199
Don't believe you described the murder weapon it was.

1351
01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:27.039
It was a long knife, like a long, thin knife, serrated.

1352
01:09:27.600 --> 01:09:30.920
It was like Ellen Greenberg when we did that case,

1353
01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:32.960
and it was the cutcow knife when we actually happened

1354
01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:35.279
to have that knife. Yeah, was it a knife like that?

1355
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:38.960
That's like a very sharp knife.

1356
01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:41.279
I'll post a picture of it. It looks maybe similar

1357
01:09:41.319 --> 01:09:44.239
to that. Longer than that, I think, but yeah, probably

1358
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:45.119
a little bit similar.

1359
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:50.479
The location of the Michael's wound in his shoulder area,

1360
01:09:50.520 --> 01:09:50.800
it was.

1361
01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:52.800
Like two inches from his armpit, is what I read.

1362
01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:56.960
I didn't realize that that would be a fatal wound. Yeah,

1363
01:09:57.560 --> 01:10:00.359
she stapped him once and it wasn't in a hard

1364
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:01.359
or you.

1365
01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:03.880
Know, it was the vein. It was called the basilic

1366
01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:07.520
vein that it severed, and yeah, I wouldn't have thought

1367
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:09.199
that was fatal either, And I think that's one of

1368
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:12.760
the things that helps Danielle in her defense because it

1369
01:10:12.920 --> 01:10:15.720
was just one stab wound. It wasn't in a place

1370
01:10:15.760 --> 01:10:18.760
where most people would normally think would be fatal. So

1371
01:10:18.920 --> 01:10:21.279
that kind of says that she probably didn't intend to

1372
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:21.640
kill her.

1373
01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:25.079
Had she called nine to one one sooner, yeah, could

1374
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:26.239
his life had been spared.

1375
01:10:26.439 --> 01:10:28.359
Yeah. I think those are the things that work against her,

1376
01:10:28.399 --> 01:10:31.680
as just all the lies, all the time that went by,

1377
01:10:32.239 --> 01:10:35.000
you know, the trying to clean up the blood, deleting

1378
01:10:35.079 --> 01:10:37.199
the tab I mean, she did so many things that

1379
01:10:37.359 --> 01:10:41.119
make her look guilty. Yeah, But at the same time,

1380
01:10:41.159 --> 01:10:43.920
I do believe that she was a battered spouse. I

1381
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:46.760
think that he did hit her several times, and I think,

1382
01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:51.479
you know that obviously the jury believed her that in

1383
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:54.520
that situation that she was in that night, her life

1384
01:10:54.800 --> 01:10:58.760
was in danger, and I can't argue with the jury's verdict.

1385
01:10:58.800 --> 01:11:01.520
I'm really torn on this case because I do think

1386
01:11:01.640 --> 01:11:03.760
that she had anger issues. I think there's a lot

1387
01:11:03.800 --> 01:11:06.840
of examples where she was drinking and like got arrested

1388
01:11:06.920 --> 01:11:10.039
by the police and charged with disorderly conduct and things

1389
01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:13.520
like that. So I think she definitely had a violent streak.

1390
01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:16.600
But at the same time, I do believe that Michael

1391
01:11:16.800 --> 01:11:19.720
hit her several times. I'm sure it was more than once,

1392
01:11:19.840 --> 01:11:22.880
and who knows if maybe her life was in danger

1393
01:11:23.039 --> 01:11:25.840
that night. So I can't really disagree with the jury's verdict,

1394
01:11:26.479 --> 01:11:28.039
but it still bothers me.

1395
01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:34.119
I can't imagine stabbing someone like it's such a forceful motion, right,

1396
01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:37.680
the movement that the force that you would have to

1397
01:11:37.880 --> 01:11:41.199
use to get through, you know, your flesh, and I

1398
01:11:41.279 --> 01:11:44.039
guess was probably just wearing a T shirt or something.

1399
01:11:44.520 --> 01:11:47.119
Yeah, it's a very up close and personal way of

1400
01:11:47.239 --> 01:11:49.479
killing someone, as opposed to with a gun or something

1401
01:11:49.560 --> 01:11:51.079
like that where you're standing farther away.

1402
01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:54.079
As my point is, maybe she was really scared for

1403
01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:56.359
her life because she did, you know, stab them once

1404
01:11:56.399 --> 01:11:58.800
and then allegedly left him, and I do kind of

1405
01:11:58.840 --> 01:11:59.880
believe that's what happened.

1406
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.039
Yeah, it sort of seems that way. I did on

1407
01:12:02.159 --> 01:12:04.600
that topic though one I mentioned it earlier. But one

1408
01:12:04.760 --> 01:12:09.720
really interesting thing I found is how often knives are foreshadowed.

1409
01:12:09.800 --> 01:12:12.520
In this case. In the email that she wrote to him,

1410
01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:16.239
she said, although my words may be cutting. Their only

1411
01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:20.239
sounds a dull knife compared to the sharp, disloyal, deceiving,

1412
01:12:20.359 --> 01:12:23.359
phony and never ending selfish knife you continue to twist

1413
01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:26.840
in my back. In that same email, she mentions cutting

1414
01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:30.079
several more times about not getting to be happy until

1415
01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:33.199
someone has bled to death. The words bled to death

1416
01:12:33.239 --> 01:12:35.359
are even underlined by her in a print out of

1417
01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:38.760
the email that she had made, and then talking about

1418
01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:42.640
the Romeo and Juliet story you know so many times so,

1419
01:12:43.199 --> 01:12:45.600
and then Michael joking with his colleagues about as long

1420
01:12:45.600 --> 01:12:47.640
as I hide the steak knives, everything will be fine.

1421
01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:51.000
So yeah, it makes me wonder if like Danielle had

1422
01:12:51.039 --> 01:12:53.720
some sort of fixation with knives or something like that.

1423
01:12:53.920 --> 01:12:57.399
So that makes me a little less likely to buy

1424
01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:00.760
her story because it just seems like she talked about

1425
01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:01.199
this a lot.

1426
01:13:01.359 --> 01:13:04.439
Yeah, that is strange. Yeah, so you don't know what

1427
01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:06.720
happened to Danielle.

1428
01:13:07.199 --> 01:13:08.720
I don't know what happened after this. I mean, this

1429
01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:10.760
was only two two and a half years ago that

1430
01:13:10.880 --> 01:13:14.119
her trial ended. But I have not I was not

1431
01:13:14.239 --> 01:13:16.840
able to track her down on social media or anything

1432
01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:17.119
like that.

1433
01:13:17.479 --> 01:13:19.199
I have one more question for you that I know

1434
01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:22.880
our listeners are thinking about right now, why didn't she

1435
01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:23.800
just divorce him?

1436
01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:26.479
I mean, it's a great question. You know, I wish

1437
01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:28.920
that I wish that she had chosen to divorce him.

1438
01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:32.079
She did file for divorce at one point, but you know,

1439
01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:35.920
I think in these kind of toxic relationships, it's just

1440
01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:39.000
they're so volatile, and we see it a lot with

1441
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:43.520
couples that break up, fight, get back together, break up again.

1442
01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:46.279
And it's so hard because you're the relationship is not

1443
01:13:46.399 --> 01:13:50.079
going to change unless you're getting intensive therapy and you're

1444
01:13:50.600 --> 01:13:52.720
really working hard on it, which I think most people

1445
01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:54.119
are not able to really do that.

1446
01:13:54.520 --> 01:13:58.560
Yeah, exactly. I hope the kids, especially are okay in

1447
01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:02.279
this situation. I feel so bad for both Jaden and Sawyer,

1448
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:04.520
and I hope they're getting the help that they need

1449
01:14:04.640 --> 01:14:06.560
to process everything that they've been through.

1450
01:14:07.079 --> 01:14:10.560
Well, to piggyback on what you're talking about, when Jaden's

1451
01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:15.239
testimony was read during the sentencing hearing, and she was like,

1452
01:14:15.399 --> 01:14:16.960
I would never I never want to be in the

1453
01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:19.520
same room ass Danielle. Again, I don't call her mom

1454
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:21.800
to me that that means a lot.

1455
01:14:22.079 --> 01:14:22.399
It does.

1456
01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:26.039
Yeah, she knew her mom and dad better than anyone else.

1457
01:14:26.199 --> 01:14:28.720
And if she felt manipulated by her mom, I can

1458
01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:32.920
only imagine what Michael felt, right, Yeah, I agree, but

1459
01:14:33.039 --> 01:14:35.239
it sounds like Michael was also abusive.

1460
01:14:35.520 --> 01:14:35.680
Right.

1461
01:14:35.960 --> 01:14:39.000
It's really hard in these horrible marriages where both parties

1462
01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:42.039
are so abusive verbally and physically.

1463
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:45.399
Yeah, it's a really horrible situation. And that's also why

1464
01:14:45.479 --> 01:14:48.680
I can't really argue with the jury's verdict because he

1465
01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:52.720
definitely was abusive, and you know, so who knows what

1466
01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:53.960
actually happened that night.

1467
01:14:54.399 --> 01:14:56.279
It's so hard for me to wrap my head around

1468
01:14:56.319 --> 01:14:59.279
so many of these stories. And I know we're really lucky,

1469
01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:02.079
and I don't take that for granted, even for a second,

1470
01:15:02.399 --> 01:15:06.600
because I have seen bad marriages and domestic violence up close,

1471
01:15:07.359 --> 01:15:10.239
and it's just so foreign to me.

1472
01:15:10.600 --> 01:15:19.600
Yeah, rest in peace, Michael. Well, thank you all so

1473
01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:22.119
much for listening. If you are a regular listener of

1474
01:15:22.159 --> 01:15:24.239
Love and Mary Kill, you know that we donate at

1475
01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:27.600
least twenty five percent of our revenues from ADS and

1476
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:30.520
from our patron program every month to a different cause.

1477
01:15:31.159 --> 01:15:35.079
Our December donation went to Saint Jude Children's Research Hospital,

1478
01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:38.159
which is a great cause. Saint Jude is leading the

1479
01:15:38.199 --> 01:15:41.600
way that the world understands, treats, and defeats childhood cancer

1480
01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:43.760
and other life threatening diseases.

1481
01:15:44.720 --> 01:15:46.640
We say it a lot, but without you listening, there

1482
01:15:46.640 --> 01:15:49.039
would be no podcast and there would be no donations.

1483
01:15:49.159 --> 01:15:51.680
In the year of twenty twenty four, we were proud

1484
01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:54.800
to make over four thousand dollars in donations and we

1485
01:15:54.880 --> 01:15:56.600
can't wait to see what the number will be in

1486
01:15:56.720 --> 01:15:57.800
twenty twenty five.

1487
01:15:58.760 --> 01:16:01.920
Speaking of twenty twenty five, have you made any New

1488
01:16:02.000 --> 01:16:02.640
Year's resolution?

1489
01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:05.359
That's crazy that you and I have not had this conversation.

1490
01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:08.479
I know, I think he's been afraid of me. Listener.

1491
01:16:09.159 --> 01:16:11.319
They'll like only come in the room and like talk

1492
01:16:11.399 --> 01:16:13.159
to me for like two minutes at a time.

1493
01:16:13.319 --> 01:16:15.159
This is the longest I've spent in a room with

1494
01:16:15.239 --> 01:16:16.319
you in over a week.

1495
01:16:16.439 --> 01:16:18.119
Yeah. He just looked at me like an hour ago,

1496
01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:20.640
panicked and said, do you think it's okay that we're

1497
01:16:20.640 --> 01:16:22.920
in the same room. No, I really don't, because I

1498
01:16:23.000 --> 01:16:25.000
still the thing is like I still have a fever,

1499
01:16:25.520 --> 01:16:27.199
and we were trying not to record when I still

1500
01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:30.159
had a fever. My fever's lower, but there's still a

1501
01:16:30.199 --> 01:16:31.800
little bit of a fever that's hanging on there.

1502
01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:37.119
Yeah, you'll be fine, Yes, So resolutions though, have you

1503
01:16:37.239 --> 01:16:38.399
made any What.

1504
01:16:38.479 --> 01:16:40.600
Are you implying that I need to change?

1505
01:16:41.479 --> 01:16:42.000
Not at all?

1506
01:16:42.640 --> 01:16:45.279
Oh No, I haven't.

1507
01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:45.479
No.

1508
01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:48.880
I mean I've literally been like laying around and I

1509
01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:49.760
really have what else?

1510
01:16:49.920 --> 01:16:51.399
What else have you had to do other than think

1511
01:16:51.439 --> 01:16:51.720
about it?

1512
01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:55.840
I've watched so much Netflix it's it's embarrassing. I can't

1513
01:16:55.840 --> 01:16:57.640
even tell you how because I don't really have like

1514
01:16:57.680 --> 01:16:59.520
the attention span to like read too much.

1515
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:03.680
But anything you can recommend for our listeners, no.

1516
01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:06.479
Because if they knew, like the trash TV I watched,

1517
01:17:06.520 --> 01:17:06.880
they'd be.

1518
01:17:06.960 --> 01:17:09.720
Like, oh my god, that's wrong with trash TV.

1519
01:17:10.039 --> 01:17:12.119
Well, I'll say one show that has been a comfort

1520
01:17:12.159 --> 01:17:14.159
show was a comfort show for me in twenty twenty

1521
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:16.840
four that I had never watched before was Ugly Betty

1522
01:17:17.359 --> 01:17:20.920
And it was very slowly watching it and I finally finished, Yeah,

1523
01:17:21.319 --> 01:17:23.479
and it was I thought it was a sweet, funny show.

1524
01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:23.840
Good.

1525
01:17:24.600 --> 01:17:27.800
And I also watched Well we started Squid Game.

1526
01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:29.279
Yep, that's season two.

1527
01:17:29.760 --> 01:17:35.399
Yeah, And you saw a movie I saw No Sparatu.

1528
01:17:35.199 --> 01:17:37.800
With our son and it was it was good if

1529
01:17:37.840 --> 01:17:38.920
you like vampire movies.

1530
01:17:39.079 --> 01:17:42.039
It was really well done, like from out of ten

1531
01:17:42.319 --> 01:17:43.640
how whinny stars would you give it?

1532
01:17:43.880 --> 01:17:44.760
I'd probably give it eight.

1533
01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:48.960
Okay, I'm sorry, but I'm evading your question. My news

1534
01:17:49.039 --> 01:17:51.840
resolution really the only one. Like last year, I did

1535
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:55.239
a really good job on my fitness journey. I thought

1536
01:17:55.399 --> 01:17:58.800
I worked out most days. The peloton was I really

1537
01:17:58.960 --> 01:18:01.479
we both really loved the peloton, have used it way

1538
01:18:01.560 --> 01:18:04.399
more than we thought we would. Obviously haven't used it

1539
01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:10.479
much recently. But my goal is to be more mindful

1540
01:18:10.560 --> 01:18:15.520
of my time and to have a little more intent

1541
01:18:16.239 --> 01:18:16.800
with things.

1542
01:18:17.119 --> 01:18:18.079
That's a very good goal.

1543
01:18:18.319 --> 01:18:19.000
Yeah, how about you.

1544
01:18:19.720 --> 01:18:26.239
Well, I have OKRs that I've set right if you

1545
01:18:26.319 --> 01:18:28.960
work in the tech world, and OKR stands for objectives

1546
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:32.720
and key results, so it's a way to set measurable objectives.

1547
01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:34.479
And I've set them only for the first half of

1548
01:18:34.479 --> 01:18:37.239
the year because who knows what's going to happen. Aliens

1549
01:18:37.319 --> 01:18:41.039
may invade and you know, oh they already have very possible.

1550
01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:46.560
So my two OKRs are around physical fitness. Really, I

1551
01:18:46.680 --> 01:18:49.800
know that's a shocker because I've never made that resolution before.

1552
01:18:50.319 --> 01:18:52.439
And the other one, though, is to get our house

1553
01:18:52.520 --> 01:18:55.680
into tip top shape. So I know I knew you'd

1554
01:18:55.720 --> 01:18:57.520
be happy to hear about that. One because I know

1555
01:18:57.680 --> 01:19:00.359
there have been a few things we've maybe I maybe

1556
01:19:00.479 --> 01:19:02.239
neglected that need.

1557
01:19:02.199 --> 01:19:05.840
To be listener. We have a really we have a

1558
01:19:05.880 --> 01:19:09.520
lovely house. Our house is it's newer, We've talked about

1559
01:19:09.520 --> 01:19:12.960
it before. But there's some things with any house that just.

1560
01:19:13.439 --> 01:19:15.159
Our cats have done their best to destroy it.

1561
01:19:16.600 --> 01:19:18.640
Really no exaggeration like.

1562
01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:20.159
They've done a lot of damage.

1563
01:19:20.199 --> 01:19:20.680
They really have.

1564
01:19:20.960 --> 01:19:22.880
But we need to get on those things. So I'm

1565
01:19:23.199 --> 01:19:24.920
committed this year.

1566
01:19:25.039 --> 01:19:28.000
It makes me really happy. I figured because I have

1567
01:19:28.199 --> 01:19:31.840
like this, this is probably the one of the areas

1568
01:19:31.960 --> 01:19:36.439
that we see the world differently. And I am a perfectionist,

1569
01:19:37.119 --> 01:19:39.399
which I know is surprising in some ways. It's weird.

1570
01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:41.279
It's weird because you're a perfectionist in some ways and

1571
01:19:41.319 --> 01:19:44.319
I'm a perfectionist in some ways. And your perfection is

1572
01:19:44.399 --> 01:19:47.720
more like you you're the podcast stuff. You do a

1573
01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:50.960
great job like with editing and stuff, and my perfectionism

1574
01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:56.439
is more with like cleaning and aesthetics and things like environment. Right,

1575
01:19:56.680 --> 01:19:59.560
So that's one area where I think we have a

1576
01:19:59.560 --> 01:20:00.439
different standard.

1577
01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:03.119
Yeah, well, you can rest assured that this is the

1578
01:20:03.199 --> 01:20:05.800
year that we're gonna get the house on tiptop because

1579
01:20:05.840 --> 01:20:08.000
it's in your okay, are it's in my okay?

1580
01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:08.159
Are?

1581
01:20:08.800 --> 01:20:10.399
Well, I'm not going to split hairs and talk about

1582
01:20:10.439 --> 01:20:12.039
the time a couple of years ago when you said

1583
01:20:12.079 --> 01:20:17.159
your goal was to declutter or get rid of things.

1584
01:20:17.199 --> 01:20:19.479
Rid of at least things two things.

1585
01:20:20.159 --> 01:20:21.119
What are you going to get rid of?

1586
01:20:21.720 --> 01:20:23.760
Well, no, that's not my that's not my okayr this

1587
01:20:23.880 --> 01:20:24.800
year oh.

1588
01:20:24.840 --> 01:20:27.039
Okay, so the things that you were never never mind,

1589
01:20:27.199 --> 01:20:29.960
never mind, it's all. We are very happy. Don't worry.

1590
01:20:30.520 --> 01:20:31.960
No listeners are like, oh my god.

1591
01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:32.640
They're fighting again.

1592
01:20:33.079 --> 01:20:35.800
They're fighting again. They're gonna get mom and dad are

1593
01:20:35.880 --> 01:20:38.880
going to get divorced. No, listener, We're in it for

1594
01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:39.479
the long haul.

1595
01:20:39.560 --> 01:20:39.840
I think.

1596
01:20:40.000 --> 01:20:41.039
I think we've made it this far.

1597
01:20:41.439 --> 01:20:43.960
Well, if I survived this week, yeah, I hope. So

1598
01:20:45.359 --> 01:20:47.119
I wanted to give a shout out to our sweet

1599
01:20:47.199 --> 01:20:50.239
listener Alison, who sent our kiddies a toy. Yeah, and

1600
01:20:50.279 --> 01:20:52.159
it's not even the first time that she has sent

1601
01:20:53.279 --> 01:20:56.920
a present to our horrible cats who don't really deserve

1602
01:20:57.920 --> 01:20:58.800
That was so thoughtful.

1603
01:20:58.880 --> 01:21:01.640
Thank you much, so sweet, and thanks so much to

1604
01:21:01.960 --> 01:21:04.039
all of you who sent Christmas cards. That was really

1605
01:21:04.119 --> 01:21:06.039
nice to get those in the mail as well.

1606
01:21:06.199 --> 01:21:09.159
Oh and a shout out to you for if you

1607
01:21:09.439 --> 01:21:11.520
received a card from us. We had told people, if

1608
01:21:11.560 --> 01:21:14.119
you send us your card, we'll send you one back.

1609
01:21:14.239 --> 01:21:16.840
You hand wrote all the cards and sent them out.

1610
01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:19.359
I did because I wasn't sick then, but I was

1611
01:21:19.399 --> 01:21:21.800
getting ready for Christmas and I was a little stressed,

1612
01:21:21.800 --> 01:21:23.039
and that was really nice for you to do that.

1613
01:21:23.119 --> 01:21:25.760
So thank you well for taking care of I appreciate

1614
01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:28.960
all of our listeners, they're amazing well.

1615
01:21:29.000 --> 01:21:31.520
We always love to hear from you, so drop us

1616
01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:34.720
a line at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com, follow us

1617
01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:38.239
on social media, consider supporting us on Patreon dot com,

1618
01:21:38.359 --> 01:21:41.880
slash Lovemrykill. We have one tier five dollars a month

1619
01:21:41.960 --> 01:21:45.520
for early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode.

1620
01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:48.680
And until next time, don't kill your husband and don't

1621
01:21:48.760 --> 01:21:49.319
kill your wife.

1622
01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:22.479
Compat