July 21, 2025

Erin Patterson, the mushroom murderer

Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconYouTube podcast player icon

In July 2023, the small, rural town of Leongatha in Victoria, Australia was thrust into the spotlight after a family lunch ended in unthinkable tragedy. Erin Patterson, a quiet, separated mother of two, prepared a homemade meal for her in-laws, but within days, three were dead and one was left clinging to life. Was it a heartbreaking accident or something far more sinister? In this episode, we discuss complicated family dynamics, growing suspicion, and lingering questions surrounding a lunch that devastated a family and shocked not just Australia, but the world.

Today's snack: Mushroom tart

Support us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/LoveMarryKill

Sources:

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:00.880
Hi.

2
00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:03.279
I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've

3
00:00:03.359 --> 00:00:05.519
learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's.

4
00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:07.719
That some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

5
00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:09.800
And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

6
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.160
Welcome to love, Mary kill.

7
00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:28.960
Hey, Rich, your arms must be tired.

8
00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:31.480
My arms are so tired.

9
00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:34.560
You literally just flew in from New York City.

10
00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:36.799
I did. I got home a half hour ago, and

11
00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:39.439
it was a little bit of a bumpy trip, not

12
00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:43.600
just turbulence wise. My flight got canceled last night and

13
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:45.880
I spent an extra night in New York City that

14
00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:47.719
I didn't plan to, so it was a little bit.

15
00:00:47.799 --> 00:00:49.840
But you're here now, and you're ready to podcast.

16
00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.119
I sure am, and I'm excited to hear about this case.

17
00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:55.119
My mate Dave has been asking us to do this

18
00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:58.320
case for like over a year now, I think a year. Yeah, not,

19
00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:00.039
as I said my mate, because.

20
00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.200
I did notice in Australia, we are going back to Australia.

21
00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:05.560
I feel like, if you are in Australia, though, you

22
00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.760
know everything about this case, and you might not really

23
00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:11.400
learn anything new from our episode. I don't think the

24
00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.319
case has caught on as much in the United States,

25
00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:17.079
so This is an Australian case that I'm telling more

26
00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:20.519
to our United States listeners. But before we get started,

27
00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:22.879
I have a joke for you. Why did the mushroom

28
00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:24.640
get invited to all the parties?

29
00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:25.519
Why?

30
00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:28.120
Because he was a fun guy to be with.

31
00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:31.359
That's a good one.

32
00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.640
Another thing I wanted to mention before we get into

33
00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.040
the case is thank you to the ten four hundred

34
00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:41.920
and sixty two people who messaged us that Michelle and

35
00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:46.280
Jason Young's dog, mister Garrison, is named for the teacher

36
00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.640
in South Ark. That really made us laugh because normally

37
00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:53.439
when we're podcasting, we have learned that we should google

38
00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:56.799
something rather than say, oh, gosh, I don't know, but

39
00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:59.120
I felt like it's a dog's name, Like, you know,

40
00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:01.599
how are we gonna know what this is about?

41
00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:06.079
Yeah, apparently everyone in the world watches something, everyone except that.

42
00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:09.159
Well you, I know that you used to watch it

43
00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:09.680
a little bit.

44
00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:12.240
Really, I mean I've watched I'm sure I've watched an

45
00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:15.000
episode or two here or there, but I never really

46
00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:15.400
watched it.

47
00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:17.639
That was really funny. Thank you to everyone that reached

48
00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.199
out to us. And we'll try not to make that

49
00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.400
mistake again. But I did bring you a snack today.

50
00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:24.719
Oh good, are you ready?

51
00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:27.639
I am ready. I'm really hungry, So I hope it's substantial.

52
00:02:28.639 --> 00:02:30.280
I mean, you can eat as much of it as

53
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:34.560
you want. You know that today's case is about Aaron Patterson,

54
00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:37.919
a mushroom murderer. You might want to call her. So

55
00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.000
I made you. I didn't make you beef Wellington is

56
00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:42.759
that's what she made her guests. I made you a

57
00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:48.240
mushroom tart, and I promised that these that was not

58
00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:50.120
You were not excited at all about that.

59
00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:51.159
I'm not exciting.

60
00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.680
I think it's pretty good. I had a piece earlier.

61
00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:55.439
How do you feel about mushrooms?

62
00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:58.800
From one to ten mushrooms, I'm I'm sort of neutral

63
00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:00.719
on I don't like them. I don't think they really

64
00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:02.360
add a lot to a lot of things. But I

65
00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.039
don't dislike them either. They can kind of they can

66
00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:07.039
be on a pizza or whatever. It doesn't bother me.

67
00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:09.280
But I wouldn't really choose to put them on a

68
00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:09.919
pizza either.

69
00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:14.639
I love mushrooms, and I have consumed dramatically less mushrooms

70
00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:17.039
since you and I have been together, and our kids

71
00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.479
aren't really big mushroom fans, and mushrooms are really polarizing.

72
00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.599
I think mushrooms and coconut and raisins foods like that.

73
00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.879
Some people just you either love them or you hate them.

74
00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:27.240
Yeah.

75
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.199
The recipe is from a website called The Little Sunny

76
00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:33.840
Kitchen and it's just called Mushroom Tart, and the recipe

77
00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:35.599
will be in the show notes. I'll have you try

78
00:03:35.639 --> 00:03:36.120
it right now.

79
00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:45.400
Okay, you didn't even need a whole piece of the

80
00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:46.319
mushroom tart.

81
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:47.840
You didn't like it.

82
00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:50.840
It wasn't bad. It was not bad. I didn't love it,

83
00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:53.039
but I didn't hate it. It's kind of how I

84
00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:56.159
feel about mushrooms in general, fairly neutral. I thought it

85
00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:59.120
tasted like a pizza with a lot of mushrooms on

86
00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:00.960
it and not tomato sauce.

87
00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.680
I just took a piece of puff pastry, rolled it out,

88
00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.759
put some smoked Gouda on it, and then I sauteed

89
00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:09.599
a bunch of baby Bella mushrooms with some butter and

90
00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:10.800
some thyme, And.

91
00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:13.439
Yeah, I like the gudha flavor. That was good.

92
00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:15.639
Yeah, smoked Gouda is one of my favorite cheeses.

93
00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:16.279
Yeah.

94
00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:17.720
What would you rate the mushroom tart?

95
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:19.560
I'm going to give it a six out of ten.

96
00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:21.879
Okay, that's not too bad. I would give it an

97
00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.480
eight out of ten. On July twenty ninth, twenty twenty three,

98
00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.560
Aaron Patterson, forty eight, a separated mother of two, prepared

99
00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:33.079
a special luncheon. It was a cold, gloomy, quiet Saturday

100
00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:37.079
afternoon and lean Gotha a rural town nestled among the

101
00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:41.000
rolling hills of Victoria, Australia. Lean Gotha is a small

102
00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.240
town located in South Gippsland, about one hundred and thirty

103
00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:48.680
five kilometers roughly eighty four miles southeast of Melbourne, with

104
00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.680
a population of about six thousand. It's a close knit,

105
00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.800
farming oriented community known for its rolling hills, dairy farms

106
00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:59.560
and quiet, picturesque countryside. Was the kind of day that

107
00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.279
begs for her comfort, food and familiar company. Inside Aaron

108
00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:07.680
Patterson's kitchen, something delicious and indulgent was coming together that

109
00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:12.240
she'd toiled over all morning. Beef Wellington tender filet wrapped

110
00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:16.160
in golden puff pastry, layered with mushroom paste and brushed

111
00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.279
with egg washed to a glossy finish. But Aaron put

112
00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.519
her own spin on the recipe by making individual portions

113
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.480
instead of the traditional loaf. As she put the final

114
00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:28.279
touches on the gourmet meal she'd been planning for weeks,

115
00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:32.120
her guests arrived. The aroma from the kitchen wafted through

116
00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:35.600
the house, creating a homey, welcoming feeling. As the four

117
00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:38.839
guests sat down at the table, Aaron poured wine. The

118
00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:42.879
guests were her in laws, Don and Gail Patterson, both seventy,

119
00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:48.040
Gail's sister, Heather Wilkinson sixty six, and Heather's husband Ian

120
00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:53.000
sixty eight. One guest whose absence was notable was Simon Patterson,

121
00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:57.480
Aaron's estranged husband. She was visibly irked that he'd abruptly

122
00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:00.720
canceled the night before, after she'd carefully planned the meal

123
00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.839
for two weeks. Aaron set aside a plate for Simon,

124
00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:06.759
and Casey changed his mind and decided to attend. She

125
00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:09.639
was hoping he would make an appearance. It was a

126
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:12.879
family lunch, meant to bring people back together, but also

127
00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:16.120
so Aaron could share some unfortunate medical news and get

128
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:19.600
their support. Ian, a pastor at a local church, said

129
00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:23.000
a prayer before the meal. The wine flowed, The conversation

130
00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:27.519
stayed polite, friendly, slightly strained, perhaps, but everyone seemed to

131
00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.040
enjoy the meal works cut cleanly through the tender pastry,

132
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:34.800
releasing steam, and the earthy aroma of mushrooms and beef.

133
00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:37.040
None of the guests at the table could have known

134
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:40.399
this carefully planned meal was not meant for their sustenance

135
00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.839
and enjoyment, but was a calculated act of revenge to

136
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:47.079
make them suffer, to pay for the slights and pain

137
00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:52.519
that Aaron Patterson had felt for months, even years. By midnight,

138
00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:55.519
all four guests were in their bathrooms, wrenching up the

139
00:06:55.639 --> 00:07:00.240
lunch gravely ill. Within a week, three were dead. Only

140
00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.879
Ian Wilkinson survived barely, and Aaron, who claimed she too

141
00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:07.279
had eaten the meal, would soon be at the center

142
00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:11.120
of a shocking and deeply unsettling mystery that would captivate

143
00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:14.800
Australia and the rest of the world. One haunting question

144
00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:18.120
was asked over and over. Was it a tragic accident

145
00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:23.160
or something far more sinister? This lunch occurred almost exactly

146
00:07:23.199 --> 00:07:26.720
two years ago, and we should mention that in Australia,

147
00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:28.720
like the end of July is kind of the peak

148
00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.000
of their winter. It's the peak of our summer, it's

149
00:07:31.040 --> 00:07:34.560
the peak of their winter. So having like a nice, cozy,

150
00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:37.839
home cooked meal was probably a really nice way to

151
00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:39.160
spend your Saturday afternoon.

152
00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.279
Yeah, it makes sense. It's kind of a heavy lunch though, right,

153
00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:43.560
but it's that typical of Australia as well.

154
00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:45.519
Do you think it's funny that you asked that? Because

155
00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.480
I had the same question. I reached out to one

156
00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.399
of our Aussy listeners, Sarah, and asked her that, and

157
00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:52.480
she said she thought because they were a church going

158
00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.480
family that it wouldn't be that odd. Okay, they might

159
00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.639
all get together on Saturday afternoon because they'd be busy

160
00:07:58.680 --> 00:07:59.399
Sunday at church.

161
00:07:59.439 --> 00:07:59.959
Gotcha.

162
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:02.959
Late on the night before the luncheon, Simon and Aaron

163
00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.800
Patterson had the following text exchange.

164
00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:08.879
Sorry, I feel too uncomfortable about coming to a lunch

165
00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:11.720
with you, mom, Dad, Heather and Ian tomorrow, but I'm

166
00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.480
happy to talk to you about your health and implications

167
00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:16.839
of that at another time. If you'd like to discuss

168
00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.439
it on the phone, just let me know.

169
00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:22.199
That's really disappointing. I spend hours this week preparing lunch

170
00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.959
for tomorrow, which has been exhausting in light of the

171
00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:27.920
issues I'm facing. I spent a small fortune on beef

172
00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:30.319
fil a to make beef Wellington because I wanted it

173
00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.320
to be a special meal, as I may not be

174
00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.639
able to host a lunch like this again for some time.

175
00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.360
It's important to me that you are all there tomorrow

176
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:39.879
and that I can have the conversation that I need

177
00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.080
to have. I hope that you change your mind. Your parents,

178
00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.440
Heather and Ian are coming at twelve thirty. I hope

179
00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:50.080
to see you there. Simon never responded to that message.

180
00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:53.559
Ann did not attend the lunch, lucky for him. On

181
00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:55.919
the day of the lunch, and the four guests arrived together.

182
00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:59.600
Gail brought an orange cake for dessert. Aaron and Simon's

183
00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:02.799
daughter son, aged nine and fourteen, were not at home

184
00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:05.559
during the meal. They'd gone to McDonald's for lunch and

185
00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.679
then to see a movie. The Wilkinsons had never visited

186
00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:11.399
Aaron's new house before, so she gave them a tour

187
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:14.440
of her home and garden. She served them each an

188
00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:19.519
individual beef wellington with fresh foraged mushrooms. Before eating, they

189
00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.440
said a prayer led by Ian. In addition to the

190
00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:26.480
beef wellington's for each guest, Aaron made mashed potatoes, gravy,

191
00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.039
and green beads. Served on a gray plate. Her own

192
00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.759
beef Wellington was served on a smaller orange plate. Later,

193
00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.559
Heather dwelt on this and asked Simon is erin short

194
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:40.480
of crockery. He admitted that she didn't have a large

195
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:44.200
complete set. Her dishes were piecemeal. Gill had half of

196
00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:47.720
her beef Wellington, while don ate his entire portion, as

197
00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:50.960
well as the other half of Gail's. Ian and Heather

198
00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:55.320
ate their entire portion. After the indulgent meal, everyone was

199
00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:58.159
full but nibbled on the orange cake Gale had baked

200
00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:02.039
and a fruit platter Aaron put out. After lunch, Aaron

201
00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:05.600
broached the difficult conversation that had brought everyone together. She

202
00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.360
told her guests that she had been diagnosed with ovarian

203
00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.120
cancer and needed guidance on how to talk to her

204
00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:14.919
and Simon's children about her life threatening illness. The group,

205
00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:18.120
visibly concerned, encouraged her to be honest with the kids,

206
00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:21.039
and Ian led them in a prayer for her. But

207
00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:25.159
in reality, Aaron did not have cancer. She fabricated the

208
00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:27.679
diagnosis as a way to draw her in laws to

209
00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:30.799
her home, and it also explained why her children weren't

210
00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.639
present at the meal. As the lunch was winding down.

211
00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.960
Aaron's son and his friend returned from the movies. Simon

212
00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.559
had picked them up, but chose not to come inside,

213
00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.360
a detail that, while subtle, reflected the tension between him

214
00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:45.960
and Aaron at the time. His parents and his aunt

215
00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.000
and uncle are there, and he chose to not even

216
00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:51.320
come in and say a quick hello. He and his

217
00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:55.320
daughter returned to his house. The guest departed around two pm,

218
00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:58.399
as Ian had a three pm appointment with a parishioner.

219
00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.639
Within twelve hours of leaving Aaron's home, the four guests

220
00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.799
all became violently ill, with vomiting and diarrhea. Don vomited

221
00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.960
more than thirty times before he called his son. Simon

222
00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:10.799
was shocked at the state of his parents when he

223
00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:14.360
arrived and immediately called an ambulance. Then he paid a

224
00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:18.039
visit to his aunt and uncle, finding them also incredibly sick.

225
00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:21.279
He drove them to the hospital himself because an ambulance

226
00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:24.240
would have taken too long. Doctors first believed that the

227
00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.399
four victims had food poisoning from the beef. None of

228
00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.519
them had remembered the finely chopped mushrooms in the beef Wellington,

229
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.399
but the next day the doctors realized that they'd fallen

230
00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.440
critically ill due to poisonous mushrooms. They were all in

231
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.919
or near liver failure. Gail, Don, Heather and Ian were

232
00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.240
all placed in medically induced comas, but three of them

233
00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:48.279
died within a week of the poisoning due to multiple

234
00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.480
organ failure, a brutal, long suffering death. Don was given

235
00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.679
a liver transplant in hopes of improving his condition, but

236
00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.559
he continued to deteriorate after the surgery. He passed away

237
00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:02.639
on August fifth. Gale and Heather were both deemed too

238
00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:06.639
ill to undergo a liver transplant and died on August fourth.

239
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.320
Ian was also given a liver transplant. His condition improved

240
00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.799
after the surgery, although his recovery was long. He spent

241
00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:18.000
seven weeks in the hospital, including three weeks in the

242
00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:21.600
intensive care unit in an induced coma at the Austin

243
00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:25.480
Hospital in Melbourne. These four people were all a little older,

244
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.159
but they were really good people and as far as

245
00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.000
I know, in good health, had many years to live.

246
00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:34.320
It's heartbreaking that their lives were ended in such a

247
00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:36.399
brutal and unkind way.

248
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.639
Yeah, so much suffering. It's just really awful.

249
00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:40.320
Yeah.

250
00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:44.159
Aaron also sought medical treatment at Lean Gotha Hospital two

251
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:47.720
days later, on Monday, July thirty. First, she complained of

252
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:49.960
gastro intestinal issues and diarrhea.

253
00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.799
Something I learned while investigating this case in Australia. Here

254
00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:57.559
we would say I have the stomach flu, and Australia

255
00:12:57.600 --> 00:12:58.919
you say gastro.

256
00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:01.799
Okay, her vital signs were taken and her blood pressure

257
00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.360
and heart rate were found to be dangerously high, but

258
00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.679
she abruptly left the hospital, even signing a waiver that

259
00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.240
she was leaving against medical advice. She was there between

260
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:12.559
eight o five and eight ten.

261
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.720
Imagine going to the emergency room in the US and

262
00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:18.000
being in and out in five minutes.

263
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:19.519
That is very hard to imagine.

264
00:13:19.559 --> 00:13:19.600
That.

265
00:13:19.720 --> 00:13:22.840
Actually, Doctor Webster did say that there was some sort

266
00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:24.480
of a bell that she was ringing. I think it

267
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:27.840
was a bell that for nurse attention. She kept like

268
00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:30.720
ringing the bell over and over. And it was Monday morning,

269
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.240
and he actually was very busy, but she was so

270
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.600
persistent that he went and asked if he could help her.

271
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:41.039
Okay, after she left, Doctor Christopher Webster had an uneasy feeling.

272
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.279
He had seen Gail Don Heather and Ian and knew

273
00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:46.600
how sick. They were. In fact, they were still at

274
00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:49.879
the hospital that morning awaiting transfer to a larger hospital.

275
00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:52.960
I think a couple of them may have been transferred already.

276
00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:56.080
But doctor Webster said that he believed that where he

277
00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:59.399
was talking to Aaron that she could possibly see into

278
00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:02.080
one of at least one of their rooms, and he

279
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:05.200
was struck by her not asking about their condition.

280
00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:09.240
Interesting. Doctor Webster was afraid that Aaron had also suffered

281
00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.360
from mushroom poisoning and wanted her to return to the hospital.

282
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:14.879
He attempted to call her cell phone three times and

283
00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:18.039
left her several messages. When she didn't answer, he called

284
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:19.320
the police for assistance.

285
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:23.759
Hello, what addressed? He had? The police? So, this is

286
00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:27.720
doctor Chris Webster calling from Lee and Gatha Hospital and

287
00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:32.559
I have a concern regarding a patient that presented here

288
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:37.879
earlier but has left the building and is potentially exposed

289
00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:43.440
to a faithal toxin from mushroom poisoning. And I've tried

290
00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:47.120
several times to get hold of her on her mobile phone.

291
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.120
So before I get all that information in what addressed?

292
00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:53.240
You need the police to attend, doctor Chris where so?

293
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:53.600
Well?

294
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:55.759
Should I give the hospital address or the address of

295
00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:58.399
the patient if you know where they are there adress,

296
00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:00.519
I have the address of the patients. Yeah, go ahead

297
00:15:00.559 --> 00:15:07.480
of that, okay, read Leona Leon Gather three nine fives,

298
00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.440
Thank you, so eighty four gifts in street Lean Gather, Victoria.

299
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.039
The nearest inter section is Worthy Street. Is that correct?

300
00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.279
I'd have to get good Walt maps up, but yes,

301
00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:19.480
I would say that sounds right. That sounds like a

302
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:20.440
street and Lean gas.

303
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:21.679
What's her name?

304
00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.039
So? The last name is Patterson p A T T

305
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.279
E R S O M. First name Aaron E R

306
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:33.399
I M. Do you have a dot of birth thirt

307
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:38.240
yes of September nineteen seventy four. When did she present

308
00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:51.639
at hospital at eight five today? Yeah? Mushroom poisoning, you said, yeah.

309
00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:54.080
So there were five people that ate a meal on

310
00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.399
Saturday and two of them are in intensive care at

311
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:02.200
dan in l Hospital to have just been transferred from

312
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:06.039
Lean at the hospital to danding On Hospital, and Aaron

313
00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:11.000
presented this morning with symptoms of poisoning. Be with me

314
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.360
and what happened when she presented? She's got the move. No,

315
00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:30.639
there was time for the nurse to begin observations and

316
00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:34.120
I was managing the other critically unwell patient. So I

317
00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:37.679
had a brief chatter about where the mushrooms were obtained.

318
00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:44.320
And after that, while I was attending the other patients,

319
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:47.320
the nurse informed me that she had discharged herself against

320
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.200
medical device. So I don't know exactly. Oh, we've got

321
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:57.039
a form here, handles tell me what time she left. No,

322
00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:04.440
it doesn't have a time. She lift it for five minutes.

323
00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:09.519
I saw footage from video surveillance and Aarin can be

324
00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.519
seen wearing white pants. A lot of people have talked

325
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:17.319
about Aaron wearing white pants when she is having explosive

326
00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.599
diarrhea and how most people would not choose to wear

327
00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:21.000
white fit.

328
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:23.640
Yeah, probably not. Also it's the middle of winter too,

329
00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.200
and I know that's not well.

330
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:28.160
They were kind of cream colored, I think, but yeah, good,

331
00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:30.920
good point. I know you're like the fashion exactly.

332
00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.119
When police arrived at Aaron's home, she didn't appear.

333
00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:34.359
To be there.

334
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.680
However, they retrieved scraps of the beef Wellington from her

335
00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:40.559
garbage and delivered them to the hospital shortly after ten

336
00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.319
am for testing. When officers called Aaron on her cell phone,

337
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.640
she was cooperative and provided them with the security code

338
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:51.319
to open the gate. Erin voluntarily returned to the hospital

339
00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.000
an hour and thirty eight minutes after her initial visit,

340
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:57.039
where she was kept for observation for twenty four hours.

341
00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.599
The doctor treating her said that she was quote moderately

342
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.680
dehydrated and appeared to have a gastrointestinal type illness, but

343
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.839
had no clinical or biochemical evidence of amanita or mushroom

344
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:14.160
poisoning or other toxicological substance ingestion. Her liver function was normal.

345
00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:18.079
The best course of treatment for mushroom poisoning is to

346
00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.400
treat the liver or to block the enzymes from entering

347
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.400
the liver. With the other patients, they were all in

348
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.680
liver failure and so they thought, you know, Aaron was

349
00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:31.400
feeling okay, we should give her these liver blocking enzymes

350
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.039
so it doesn't get to her liver.

351
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:35.720
So that might have been why her liver functions were normal.

352
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:42.000
Well, probably not, actually, because I typically you are exhibiting

353
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:46.200
symptoms like twelve hours after you ingest the mushrooms, Okay,

354
00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:49.079
So the fact that it was two days later, she

355
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.160
probably was in the clear, right, But they were being

356
00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:55.880
abundantly cautious because of the severity of the other four

357
00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.240
people's illness.

358
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.559
Sure the hospital insisted that Aaron's children and also be

359
00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:05.119
admitted for observation, despite not displaying any symptoms. Aaron had

360
00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:08.240
served them the leftover beef Wellington, but had scraped off

361
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.480
the mushrooms. She was adamant that they hadn't eaten any

362
00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.039
of the mushrooms and didn't want them taken out of school,

363
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.160
but Simon brought them to the hospital. Aaron and the

364
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:20.440
children were released the following day. None of them had

365
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:24.279
the mushroom tocsin in their bloodstreams. Aaron, who had experienced

366
00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:27.519
issues with her potassium levels previously in her life, had

367
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:31.359
normal potassium levels, which, if she had had explosive diarrhea

368
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.039
as she had reported, would be a little surprising.

369
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:39.200
My Cologists or mushroom experts have said that the beef

370
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.799
Wellington that Aaron gave her kids, even if she had

371
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:45.559
scraped off the pastry and the mushrooms, the mushroom toxins

372
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:48.200
probably still would have leached into the beef.

373
00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:50.240
Yeah. I would think so too.

374
00:19:50.359 --> 00:19:50.839
Yeah.

375
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:53.839
Doctor Webster later told the Harold's son that he knew

376
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.079
Aarin was a calculated murderer when she revealed to him

377
00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.960
that she had purchased the mushrooms for the dinner from Woolworth,

378
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.720
her local market. Quote. If she said she picked the mushrooms,

379
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:05.599
it would have been a very different mindset for me,

380
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.480
because there would have been an instant assumption it was

381
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:11.480
all a tragic accident. But once she said that answer,

382
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.799
my thoughts were, holy fucking shit, you fucking did it,

383
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.240
you crazy bitch, You poison them all. He called Aaron

384
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:23.000
a quote disturbed, sociopathic nutbag. She wasn't freaking out about

385
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.039
the safety of her children. Looking into her eyes, I thought,

386
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:28.480
I don't know what planet you're on, but you're not

387
00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:31.680
on Earth. Here, he is describing what it felt like

388
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:32.759
to be in her presence.

389
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:38.240
There is an eerie sort of disquiet that you have

390
00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:43.599
in her presence, But it's not the typical sort of

391
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:50.880
scary ogre type fee that you have. It's more visceral

392
00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:57.079
than that. It's sort of her oddness gets under your skin,

393
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:03.160
and penetratic, brian and just she's not it's not pleasant

394
00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:03.960
to be around her.

395
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:08.160
The doctor Webster doesn't shy away from speaking his mind

396
00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.640
or using colorful language. We'll talk about that a little

397
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:12.400
bit more later.

398
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.640
We'll be back after a break.

399
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:25.279
Long before the headlines of her deadly beef Wellington made

400
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.240
international news. Aaron Trudy's Scudder, was a bright young woman

401
00:21:29.319 --> 00:21:33.359
growing up in Melbourne's southeastern suburbs. Born in nineteen seventy

402
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.200
four to a businessman father and a mother who was

403
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:40.880
a children's literature professor at Monash University, Aaron was raised

404
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:45.279
in glen Waverley in a family that valued education, ideas

405
00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.960
and intellect. Her sister Kinwyn would go on to become

406
00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:53.200
a scientist. Aaron, too, was curious and ambitious. She started

407
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:56.519
out studying science at the University of Melbourne, then pivoted

408
00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.720
to accounting before becoming qualified as an air traffic controller

409
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.039
in two thousand and one. Aaron met Simon Patterson in

410
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.400
two thousand and four while working for Monash City Council.

411
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:12.039
Aaron was a representative for the RSPCA or Royal Society

412
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.759
for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. Simon worked as

413
00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:19.640
a civil engineer. They were friends first, often spending time

414
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.680
together in a larger group, going camping and taking trips

415
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.680
together before they became a couple in two thousand and five,

416
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.240
engaged a year later, and married in two thousand and seven,

417
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:32.240
when Erin was thirty three. They shared a love of

418
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:35.359
travel and moved across the country, living for a time

419
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:39.400
in York and Pemberton, small towns in western Australia, where

420
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:43.039
Aaron even ran a second hand bookstore, but eventually they

421
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:47.680
returned to Victoria, settling in South Gippsland near Simon's family.

422
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.920
Erin became active in the community, editing a local church newsletter,

423
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.839
raising their two children, and in quieter moments, indulging in

424
00:22:55.880 --> 00:23:00.519
her growing interest in true crime. We'll have to combat that.

425
00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:05.000
Aaron and Simon Patterson's marriage experienced frequent ups and downs,

426
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:10.000
including several separations between twenty nine and twenty fourteen, before

427
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.240
they permanently separated in twenty fifteen. Their first separation occurred

428
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.200
shortly after the birth of their first child, during a

429
00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:21.440
time when Aaron was struggling with postpartum depression. Religion often

430
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:25.200
played a central role in their marital challenges. Simon was

431
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.759
a committed Christian, deeply involved in his Baptist church, particularly

432
00:23:29.799 --> 00:23:32.960
the one where his uncle Ian served as pastor. Aaron,

433
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.240
on the other hand, identified as a fundamentalist atheist before

434
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:38.000
their marriage.

435
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:41.759
What is a fundamentalist atheist? Hey, well it quick Google

436
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:44.440
tells me what I probably should have known from the beginning,

437
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:48.160
but it's basically an atheist who is very strident in

438
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:51.319
their views, like on, intolerant of anything else.

439
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.640
Well Erin did become a Christian after they wed, but

440
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.680
there are signs that the shift in her belief may

441
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.839
not have fully taken root their differences and eventual separation,

442
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:05.880
Aaron and Simon remained on amicable terms. They co parented

443
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:09.680
their two children, spent holidays together, attended church as a family,

444
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:13.039
and even went on trips together. The lunch where Aaron

445
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:17.240
served the beef Wellington allegedly containing death cap mushrooms, was

446
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.839
not the first time she is accused of trying to

447
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:25.480
harm Simon. Prosecutors pointed to three earlier incidents in November

448
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:29.160
twenty twenty one, May twenty twenty two, and September twenty

449
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.000
twenty two. During the May twenty twenty two episode, Simon

450
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.720
was hospitalized with serious gut problems and spent twenty one

451
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.559
days in intensive care. Boy, I wish I had more

452
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.319
information about this, but I couldn't find any more about it.

453
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:46.319
But very interesting. Yeah, and I can't blame Simon for

454
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.759
not going to the lunch that Erin.

455
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:51.240
No, I wish he would have warned his family members

456
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:52.079
not to go, and I.

457
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:55.559
Think he must have felt that they were safe if

458
00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:59.279
he wasn't there. Yeah, Aaron had inherited several millions of

459
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:02.119
dollars from her her grandmother and later from her mother.

460
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:05.720
Financially comfortable, she didn't really need to work. She was

461
00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.720
also known to be generous with her money, reportedly loading

462
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.839
hundreds of thousands of dollars to Simon's brother and sister

463
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:15.759
so they could build their own homes. After separating from Simon,

464
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:20.279
Aaron Patterson appeared to lead a quiet and increasingly isolated

465
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:23.440
life in her rual leand Gatha home. Beneath the surface,

466
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.960
though she carried deep emotional wounds, some dating back to

467
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.960
her childhood. In messages posted to Facebook, Erin described her

468
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:35.720
upbringing lacking warmth and affection. Quote, we had a horrible upbringing.

469
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.000
Mom was essentially a cold robot. It was like being

470
00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:42.079
brought up in a Russian orphanage where they don't touch

471
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.039
the babies. Dad wanted to be warm and loving to us,

472
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.799
but Mom wouldn't let him because it would spoil us,

473
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:51.279
so he did as he was told. Erin's main social

474
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:54.119
outlet was a True Crime Facebook group, where some of

475
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:58.240
her private messages revealed rising resentment toward the Patterson family.

476
00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:02.119
In December twenty twenty two, Aaron expressed frustration over her

477
00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:06.839
in laws reluctance to support her during her separation from Simon, quote,

478
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:09.119
I'm sick of this shit. I want nothing to do

479
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:11.359
with them. I thought his parents would want him to

480
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:13.920
do the right thing, but it seems they're concern about

481
00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:16.759
not wanting to feel uncomfortable and not wanting to get

482
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:20.200
involved in their son's personal manners or over writing that.

483
00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:24.400
So fuck them. In another message, she added, this family,

484
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:25.759
I swear to fucking God.

485
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.279
So she's making these posts in a true crime Facebook group.

486
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:32.279
I think she just became like very friendly with some

487
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:35.359
of them, and she was just venting her frustrations. But

488
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:38.720
when you're married in your forties with kids, should your

489
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.039
parents be involved in your marriage?

490
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:42.119
I would hope not.

491
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:46.519
Later, Aaron expressed regret over the angry messages that she

492
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:49.039
had sent, saying that she loved her in laws and

493
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:51.799
that they had always treated her like a daughter. In fact,

494
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:55.720
she had frequent and friendly contact with Gail, often exchanging

495
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:59.759
friendly and loving messages and sometimes parenting advice on Mother's

496
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:02.480
Day in twenty twenty three, just two months before the

497
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:06.200
fatal lunch, Aaron sent Gail a warm text message, Happy

498
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.880
Mother's Day. You're the best mother in law I could

499
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:13.799
ask for. But her relationship with Simon continued to deteriorate.

500
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:16.640
When he filed his taxes as a separated person in

501
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.720
twenty twenty two, it altered Aaron's own tax filing status,

502
00:27:20.799 --> 00:27:24.039
costing her a substantial exemption that she had relied on.

503
00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:27.960
In response, she demanded that Simon begin paying child support

504
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.759
and contribute to school fees. They quarreled over their custody

505
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:35.279
and financial agreements. Erin no longer allowed the children to

506
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.920
spend the night at Simon's house because it was messy

507
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:41.319
and chaotic. In text to friends, she referred to him

508
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.000
as a deadbeat. I'm not sure if this is accurate,

509
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:46.759
but I read that his child support payment was thirty

510
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:51.079
eight dollars a month, which seems really really small. Yeah,

511
00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:53.440
unless it was a week, but even week, that seems

512
00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:54.079
really small.

513
00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:57.079
And that's Australian dollars. But I think Australian dollars are

514
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:58.200
not dramatically different.

515
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:01.720
Yeah, yeah, I think ar was comfortable. I'm not sure

516
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:04.160
if she was well lost. So maybe the payment was

517
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:06.279
so low because she didn't really need the money.

518
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:08.440
Well, yeah, you said she had inherited quite a bit

519
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:09.480
of money, right, Well.

520
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:12.079
She had built a house in the last year year

521
00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:14.400
or so before, like in twenty twenty two. Maybe she

522
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.839
built a new house and she was pretty generous. I'm

523
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:19.319
not sure how much of that money she.

524
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:20.440
Had left, gotcha.

525
00:28:20.680 --> 00:28:25.880
Tensions escalated, Erin began sending aggressive text messages to Simon's parents,

526
00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:29.160
Don and Gail, who were reportedly hurt and confused by

527
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.799
the tone and intensity of her messages. Erin was also

528
00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:36.319
deeply affected by what she perceived is being excluded from

529
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:40.119
Patterson family events. One moment that especially stung was not

530
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:43.799
being invited to Gail's seventieth birthday party. Her hurt and

531
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:47.039
anger were evident in a series of text messages sent

532
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:50.480
at the time. Seems like my invite tomorrow is a

533
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:53.319
bit of an afterthought, and not even from your parents,

534
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:55.960
so I might pass. Thanks. What I reckon is that

535
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:58.839
everybody forgot to invite me to this. I feel very

536
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:03.640
hurt about that. Your response is to say, I'm being ridiculous.

537
00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:05.559
Well, you can believe whatever you feel like. But frankly,

538
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.799
you're as far off the mark as you possibly could

539
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:09.839
be on this. I know they would love you to

540
00:29:09.880 --> 00:29:12.480
be there. They've been talking about this and losing sleep

541
00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:13.440
over it for weeks.

542
00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:16.759
Aaron went to the party with her children, but apparently

543
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:20.240
an argument broke out between her and Simon. After the event,

544
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:24.559
she sent another text apologizing I was feeling very heard

545
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:28.000
and lashed out. It's no excuse. I'd like to not

546
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:31.000
do that again. That sounds like a text message I

547
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:35.039
feel like sending anytime we have a social outing. But

548
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:37.279
doesn't Simon come off as unflappable?

549
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:38.559
Yeah, he really does.

550
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:38.839
Yeah.

551
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:41.960
I think you and Simon are probably quite similar. Despite

552
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.640
the turmoil in her life, Aaron made plans in twenty

553
00:29:44.680 --> 00:29:48.319
twenty two to enroll in a midwifery program, but delayed

554
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.599
her studies when her daughter required additional support at home.

555
00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:55.440
There are over five thousand varieties of mushrooms, and about

556
00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:59.279
fifty of them are poisonous. Death cap mushrooms or Amanita

557
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:03.039
filoid's and their relatives are among the most poisonous mushrooms

558
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:05.920
in the world and are responsible for the vast majority

559
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:09.440
of fatal mushroom poisonings. They have a smooth, pale green

560
00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:12.960
or yellowish cap, white gills, and a white stem with

561
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.960
a cup like structure at the base, and typically measure

562
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:19.240
between four and sixteen centimeters or one and a half

563
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:23.319
to six inches in diameter. Death caps contain potent toxins

564
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:26.960
called amatoxins, which are deadly even in very small amounts,

565
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.880
and are not destroyed by cooking, freezing, or drying. Just

566
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:34.440
one mushroom can be fatal to an adult. Symptoms typically

567
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:37.680
appear six to twelve hours after ingestion, and may include

568
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:42.359
severe vomiting, diarrhea, and abdominal pain, followed by a deceptive

569
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:46.039
period of improvement before liver and kidney failure sets in.

570
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:51.240
Without prompt and aggressive treatment, including possible liver transplantation, death

571
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.759
can occur within days. Native to Europe, death caps are

572
00:30:54.759 --> 00:30:58.359
now found across North America, Australia and other parts of

573
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:02.720
the world, often growing oak, pine, or chestnut trees. They're

574
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:07.319
especially dangerous because they closely resemble several edible mushrooms, making

575
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.720
accidental ingestion tragically common. There's no antidote for death cap.

576
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:15.359
Mushroom poisoning experts think that aaron must have put at

577
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.400
least ten mushrooms in the beef wellington to cause such

578
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.880
serious illness and death. There is a new potential treatment

579
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:25.119
for mushroom poisoning, an extract from a milk thistle plant

580
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:29.119
called syllabinin. It's not yet FDA approved, but has helped

581
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:32.079
between thirty to fifty percent of patients, but it needs

582
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.720
to be delivered quickly to counter the effects of toxins

583
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:37.519
on the liver. But mushrooms aren't all bad. They are

584
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.160
a low calorie, nutrient rich food that may support longevity

585
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.400
and overall health. They're packed with bee vitamins and antioxidants,

586
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.759
and are one of the few plant based sources of

587
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:53.079
vitamin D. These compounds help combat oxidative stress, reduce inflammation,

588
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:56.160
and support immune function, all of which are key to

589
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.759
healthy aging. Some varieties, like chitaki and lions main have

590
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.680
been linked to benefits like improved heart health, better cognitive function,

591
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.359
and a lower risk of certain cancers. Including mushrooms in

592
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:11.480
a balanced diet may contribute to a longer, healthier life.

593
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:13.759
Is this your way of trying to convince me to

594
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:15.960
like mushrooms more than I do?

595
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:19.200
I sometimes take a mushroom supplement, I mix it into

596
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.720
my tea. It's most to help concentration and focus, and

597
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:24.039
I really do think it works.

598
00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:28.440
The commercial mushroom industry is highly regulated, ensuring that Storrebaugh

599
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:32.559
varieties are safe to eat. However, foraging for wild mushrooms

600
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:37.519
carries significant risks. In countries like Switzerland, mushroom inspection stations

601
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:41.200
are available where foragers can have their fines evaluated by

602
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:45.000
experts before consuming them, but budget cuts have led to

603
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:48.920
fewer inspection centers, resulting in more poisonings. One of the

604
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.480
challenges is that toxic mushrooms can change in appearance throughout

605
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:56.359
their life cycle, making it difficult even for experienced foragers

606
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:59.720
and even mycologists to tell the difference between safe and

607
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:05.279
porous varieties. While identification apps are available, they aren't always reliable.

608
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:08.559
The same species of mushroom can look quite different depending

609
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:12.519
on its age, the soil it grows in, and environmental conditions.

610
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.240
I know here in Michigan people really love to go

611
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.079
hunting for morel mushrooms, right.

612
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:18.079
Yeah.

613
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:20.799
Since twenty twenty, there has been an uptick of about

614
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:24.319
twenty percent in mushroom related illnesses and deaths. As foraging

615
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:28.000
has become a popular hobby, many thousands of people become

616
00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:31.880
ill each year from eating inedible mushrooms, and dozens die.

617
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:33.960
I just want to reiterate here that mushrooms that you

618
00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:36.799
buy in your supermarket are very safe. They are grown

619
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.519
for consumers, right, and there's no question that they are safe.

620
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.039
But when I was making the mushroom tart, I used

621
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:46.359
baby Bella mushrooms and mushrooms like you're not supposed to

622
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:49.000
put them in water. You're just supposed to, like, you know,

623
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.160
rub them with a cloth to get the dirt off, okay,

624
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.440
And these were particularly dirty and kind of gross.

625
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:56.519
Interesting, And I think.

626
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:58.400
I had it In high school and college I had

627
00:33:58.519 --> 00:34:03.559
microbiology and we studied fungi, and for a few years

628
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:07.200
I didn't eat mushrooms because funga its fung guy is

629
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:07.799
it's weird.

630
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:09.599
It's a weird life form, isn't it.

631
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.280
I've heard that there's new varieties of funguy that are

632
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.920
emerging that might be life threatening. No, I really don't

633
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.880
have any or either that.

634
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:18.960
Okay, yep.

635
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.360
It's just odd how they can just pop up out

636
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:21.840
of nowhere.

637
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.639
Yeah, it really is. Looking for a new hobby. During

638
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:28.440
the twenty twenty COVID pandemic, Aaron began foraging for mushrooms

639
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:31.800
in the Krumborough Botanic Gardens near her home and in

640
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:35.480
her backyard. In April twenty twenty three, the Victoria Department

641
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:38.400
of Health issued a public warning that death cap mushrooms

642
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.519
were growing in the region. The deadly mushrooms were spotted

643
00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:44.639
a short drive from Aaron's home in rural Victoria. On

644
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:48.639
a website I Naturalist, hobbyist foragers posted about the location

645
00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:51.960
of mushrooms they found in the wild, cautioning others to

646
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.159
steer clear of the deadly fung guy. One user gave

647
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:58.239
the exact location of the death cap mushrooms they'd spotted,

648
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:03.480
giving precise latitude longitude measurements. Aaron's computer history showed that

649
00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:07.039
she visited the Eye Naturalist website at least once. It

650
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:10.280
was a town called Locke in the Gippsland region. It

651
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:12.480
was the first time the death cap mushrooms had been

652
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.159
spotted there, at least according to the website.

653
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:19.280
When law enforcement dug into Aarin's phone and electronic devices,

654
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.679
her location revealed that she was near the area where

655
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:26.039
the death cap mushrooms grew. In April and May twenty

656
00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:29.199
twenty three, she'd spent about twenty five minutes there, just

657
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.559
long enough to find and pick the mushrooms. On April

658
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:35.400
twenty eighth, twenty twenty three, the same day she was

659
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:39.039
near one of the Death Cap mushroom areas, she purchased

660
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:43.840
a food dehydrator. Investigators believed that Aarin has multiple phones,

661
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.760
although she only turned over one. The iPhone she relinquished

662
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.800
to police had been reset to factory settings four times

663
00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:56.400
on February twelfth and August second, fifth, and sixth. The

664
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:59.760
last reset was done remotely when the phone was all

665
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:03.000
ready in the hands of law enforcement. That's a very

666
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:04.559
brazen activity, isn't it.

667
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:06.440
Yeah, it is. I didn't even know you could do that.

668
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:10.039
In surveillance camera footage, Aaron is seen with a pink

669
00:36:10.159 --> 00:36:13.920
Samsung phone that has never been recovered. It seemed to

670
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:17.599
be her primary phone between February and August twenty twenty three.

671
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:20.679
Aaron claimed that she purchased the mushrooms from a local

672
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:24.320
market and adamantly denied the notion that she'd foraged the

673
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.840
Death Cap mushrooms. She told investigators that she'd purchase some

674
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:31.599
of the mushrooms in powdered form from an Asian grocery store,

675
00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:35.119
but she couldn't recall which Asian grocery store or produce

676
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:39.559
a receipt. Investigators visited all of the possible locations but

677
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.159
couldn't find the packaging that Aaron had described, So she

678
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.679
sent them on this wild goose chase. And it's kind

679
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.400
of crazy to me that she couldn't say, oh, yeah,

680
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:50.800
I got I got the mushrooms from the store on

681
00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:53.599
first in Maine or something. That doesn't like she had

682
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:57.199
went to so many different Asian food markets that you know,

683
00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:58.320
she couldn't pinpoint it.

684
00:36:58.440 --> 00:36:59.400
Yeah, that doesn't add up.

685
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.800
Bank records didn't reveal any activity at such a store.

686
00:37:03.079 --> 00:37:06.199
She claimed she must have paid cash. Aaron purchased a

687
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:10.280
mixture of wild mushrooms from a local Woolworth's market, including

688
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:14.239
a blend of chataki, anaki and porcini. They smelled pungent,

689
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:18.159
She claimed. She mixed those mushrooms with some other mushrooms

690
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:22.760
that she had previously dehydrated. On August second, twenty twenty three,

691
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:26.320
after leaving the hospital, she brought the food dehydrator to

692
00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:29.880
a recycling center or as they'd stay in Australia, a

693
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:33.039
tip tip. She'd had a run in with Simon at

694
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:35.320
the hospital when his parents were still in the hospital,

695
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.840
and he'd asked her if she'd used at a hydrator

696
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:41.400
on the mushrooms that had killed his family members. Police

697
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:44.079
went to the tip and were able to recover the

698
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:47.679
food dehydrator, and they found Aaron's fingerprints on the unit

699
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:50.719
as well as deathcap mushroom residue inside.

700
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:52.440
That's pretty amazing they were able to find it.

701
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.559
Yeah. In a search of Aaron's home on August fifth,

702
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.679
police found a manual for the dehydrator in her kitchen.

703
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.920
A review of surveyor Allen's video found clear images of

704
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:04.920
her dropping it off. Unaware of the evidence against her,

705
00:38:05.239 --> 00:38:08.679
she told police that she'd never owned a dehydrator. A

706
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:12.719
journalist John Ferguson, who interviewed Aaron, called her cold, mean,

707
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:16.119
and vicious. The day after the lunch, Aaron and her

708
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:19.559
children skipped church because she wasn't feeling well. Her son

709
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:22.599
had a flying lesson about ninety minutes from their home

710
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:25.679
that afternoon. He told his mom that they could skip it,

711
00:38:25.960 --> 00:38:29.480
but they went anyway. Aaron was seen on surveillance footage

712
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.840
entering a gas station and heading to the restroom, again

713
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:37.320
wearing the white pants. She was only inside for nine seconds.

714
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.840
She then purchased a sour confectionery, a ham, cheese and

715
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:44.280
tomato sandwich, and a sweet chilly chicken rut.

716
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:45.760
I have no idea what that is.

717
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:47.880
I really don't know what it is either. I think

718
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.920
it might just be like a piece of chicken that

719
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:53.480
is seasoned really well. Okay, I mentioned these things because

720
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:55.840
none of these things seemed like what you should be

721
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:57.840
eating when you're having an upset.

722
00:38:57.880 --> 00:38:58.159
Stumm.

723
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:01.320
No, but her son was with her, so maybe she

724
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:03.519
was buying these snacks from her kid. Okay, But we

725
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:05.800
mentioned this just because you know, she is supposed to

726
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:07.840
not be feeling well, and she was only in the

727
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:10.559
restroom for nine seconds, and she went on a ninety

728
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:13.599
minute drive to take her son to this flying lesson.

729
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.760
Yeah, and so not something you would do if you

730
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:19.239
had serious gastro intestinal issues exactly.

731
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.000
But later she claimed that she had to stop on

732
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:25.159
the side of the road to relieve herself and only

733
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:29.159
stopped at the gas station to dispose of soiled tissues.

734
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:31.559
Okay, thanks for putting that in my head.

735
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:36.440
During a police interrogation, Aaron denied intentionally poisoning her in laws.

736
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:40.360
She said quote. My parents are both gone, my grandparents

737
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:43.119
are all gone. They're the only family that I've got.

738
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:46.119
I love them a lot. Here's Aaron talking to the

739
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:49.400
media about her in laws. It's a tragedy with Keppin.

740
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:52.679
Can you tell us about the meal that you put.

741
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:59.159
I've the devastated by what's happened by the laws of.

742
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:06.599
Tony is still in hospogles an and and Kyle I

743
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:08.400
was some of the best people that I've ever been.

744
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.800
The media was relentless in their pursuit of Aaron, and

745
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:16.000
it was starting to bother her. Aaron, Kelly, you goings

746
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:18.280
and like I'm going rosting.

747
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:23.440
We got healthy. I am adding that to my vocabulary.

748
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:25.480
Next time you ask me how I'm doing or how

749
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.679
I'm going, I'm gonna say I'm going ship house.

750
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:32.920
I did google it just to make sure that the

751
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:36.519
definition of that was what you're thinking is, yeah, okay,

752
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:37.239
it's pretty clear.

753
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:37.440
Yeah.

754
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.239
I think it's a good word. We'll be back after

755
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:40.760
a break.

756
00:40:48.679 --> 00:40:52.079
Sensing an impending arrest, on November one, twenty twenty three,

757
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:54.559
Aaron had a party at her house with her children

758
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:57.599
and her closest friends. She was arrested the next day

759
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.719
and charged with three counts of murder and five counts

760
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:04.280
of attempted murder. She pleaded not guilty. While in jail,

761
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:07.360
she was mostly kept in solitary confinement after a fellow

762
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:10.599
inmate accused her of tampering with her food. The inmate

763
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.079
felt ill after she cooked a meal for her, and

764
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.880
Erin was banned from the prison kitchen. I would have

765
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:18.519
thought Aaron would have been banned from the prison kitchen

766
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:22.840
to begin with, but okay. While Erin remained incarcerated after

767
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:26.199
her arrest, her home had been burglarized several times, with

768
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:30.760
thieves taking TVs, a vacuum, surveillance cameras, and even a car.

769
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:34.239
The trial of Aaron Patterson gripped the nation of Australia.

770
00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:38.480
Fifty witnesses testified over a ten week period. The trial

771
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:41.320
took place in Morwell, about an hour from Aaron's home

772
00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:44.679
in lean Gatha. In Australia, no cameras are allowed in

773
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:48.360
the court rooms. The public depended on journalists and podcasters

774
00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:50.880
for details of the trial day to day. On the

775
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:53.440
eve of the trial, the attempted murder charge for Simon

776
00:41:53.639 --> 00:41:58.039
was dismissed. Prosecutor Nannette Rodgers sc attempted to prove that

777
00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:02.239
Aarin set out on four calculat deceptions quote. The first

778
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:05.320
deception was the fabricated cancer claim she used as a

779
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:09.079
pretense for the lunch invitation. The second deception was the

780
00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:12.360
lethal doses of poison the accused secreted in the home

781
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:16.039
cooked beef Wellington's. The third deception was her attempts to

782
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.719
make it seem that she also suffered death cap mushroom poisoning,

783
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:23.199
and the fourth deception the sustained cover up she embarked

784
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.800
upon to conceal the truth. Simon was the first witness.

785
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.360
He became emotional many times during his testimony when talking

786
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:33.400
about his parents and the early days of his relationship

787
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:36.519
with Aarin. He recalled that she had a good relationship

788
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:39.760
with his parents quote. She especially got on with Dad.

789
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:42.639
They shared a love of knowledge and learning. I think

790
00:42:42.679 --> 00:42:45.519
she loved his gentle nature. Although at the time of

791
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.800
the luncheon their relationship was very strained, he hadn't given

792
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.639
up on the thought of them reconciling. He said it

793
00:42:51.679 --> 00:42:53.880
was rare for Aaron to host people in her home,

794
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:56.800
especially a group of that size. He talked about the

795
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:00.760
breakdown in their communication in December twenty twenty two, he said,

796
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.440
quote from my point of view, Aaron was being extremely aggressive.

797
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.800
Doctor Christopher Webber, who treated Erin in the hospital, testified

798
00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:11.639
that he believed she was faking her symptoms and called

799
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.880
her a callous, calculated killer. He said he knew she

800
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.400
was lying when she said she'd purchased the mushrooms from

801
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:20.920
a local grocer. Ian Wilkinson, a local pastor and the

802
00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:24.000
sole survivor of the luncheon, testified at the trial. He

803
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:25.840
stood while giving his testimony.

804
00:43:26.320 --> 00:43:28.960
I thought it was very brave of Ian to testify.

805
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:31.840
He really had been through a lot. He lost his

806
00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:35.960
wife and two very beloved family members, and he almost

807
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.840
died himself. I think his recovery was very long. I

808
00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:42.159
mean he was almost seventy having a liver transplant I'm

809
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:44.719
sure is no picnic. And the fact that he stood

810
00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:48.360
during his testimony when I think most people in Australia

811
00:43:48.559 --> 00:43:52.639
stand when they're testifying what they offer them chairs, especially

812
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:56.119
if you are in a compromised health state of health.

813
00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:58.000
Yeah, so he just really impresses.

814
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:00.480
It seems like a wonderful man who has really been

815
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:01.159
through a lot.

816
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:04.039
Ian and Heather were pleased to be invited to the lunch,

817
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.760
and he hoped that it might improve the family's relationship

818
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:09.400
with Aarin. He said that at the luncheon he had

819
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:11.480
noticed that Aaron had used a plate that was a

820
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:14.119
different size and color than the rest of the guests.

821
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:17.920
Ian said, quote, each person had an individual serve. It

822
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.800
was very much like a pasty. It was a pastry case,

823
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:23.400
and when we cut into it there was steak and mushrooms.

824
00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:26.480
He testified that when he was admitted to the hospital,

825
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:28.880
he had forgotten about the mushrooms in the dish and

826
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:31.679
hadn't mentioned them to the doctor. He said that he'd

827
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:34.599
seen Aaron eating, but couldn't remember how much she had eaten.

828
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:38.199
When asked about his relationship with Aaron, Ian said quote,

829
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:41.679
I would say our relationship was friendly, amicable. It did

830
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:44.719
not have much depth. We were more like acquaintances. We

831
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:46.840
didn't see a great deal of each other. She just

832
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:49.440
seemed like a normal person to me when we met.

833
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:52.760
Things were friendly. We never had arguments or disputes. She

834
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.719
just seemed like an ordinary person. Heather would have seen

835
00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:57.719
Arin more than me, talk to her more than me,

836
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:00.719
but we did not consider that the relationship was close.

837
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:03.840
Regarding being invited for lunch. He said that he and

838
00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:07.000
his wife were quote very happy to be invited. It

839
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.119
seemed like maybe our relationship was going to improve. We

840
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:13.519
were very happy to accept. In regards to Aaron's announcement

841
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.400
about her health, Ian said, quote, she said she was

842
00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:20.000
very concerned because she believed it was very serious, life threatening.

843
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:23.239
She was anxious about telling the kids. She was asking

844
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.800
our advice about that, should I tell the kids or

845
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:28.320
not tell the kids about this threat to my life.

846
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.599
In that moment, I thought, this is the reason we've

847
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:33.239
been invited to the lunch. I didn't quite catch what

848
00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:35.719
type of cancer she had. I thought it was some

849
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:39.119
sort of ovarian or cervical cancer, something like that. I

850
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.880
realized we weren't able to continue, and that we hadn't

851
00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:44.719
prayed about it. I suggested we pray, and I said

852
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:47.400
a prayer, asking for God's blessing that Aaron would get

853
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:49.960
the treatment she needed, that the kids would be okay.

854
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.079
Ian is sure that Aaron used the word cancer.

855
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.880
The defense pointed to the lack of motive. Aaron was

856
00:45:56.920 --> 00:45:59.920
well off, had a good custody agreement with Simon in

857
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:02.599
which she had the children the majority of the time,

858
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:07.519
and her children loved their grandparents. But remember, the prosecution

859
00:46:07.880 --> 00:46:11.199
didn't have to prove a motive. They explained away Aaron's

860
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.760
lies and deceit as panic after she realized that she'd

861
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:19.519
unintentionally done away with beloved relatives. The cancer lie that

862
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:22.960
was Aarin embarrassed about an upcoming weight loss surgery she

863
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:26.840
was planning. But there is no evidence that Aaron had

864
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:30.679
a surgery planned. And she gave the police like the

865
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:34.360
name of the clinic, and that clinic didn't even offer

866
00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:36.960
like any kind of weight loss surgeries.

867
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:39.039
I seems like that'd be such an easy thing for

868
00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:41.360
the police to check out that why would she do that?

869
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:41.639
You know?

870
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:46.079
Yeah, the allegation that she visited towns with deathcap mushrooms

871
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:50.719
was not proof and didn't pinpoint her location precisely. A

872
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.880
friend from the online true crime group that Aarin belonged to,

873
00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:58.199
Daniella Barkley, testified that Aaron had excitedly shared pictures with

874
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.480
the group of mushrooms. In her new deal. Aaron told

875
00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:04.480
the group that she'd quote been hiding powdered mushrooms in

876
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:08.199
everything to trick her kids into eating them. Quote I

877
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:11.400
mixed it with chocolate brownies. Yesterday and the kids had

878
00:47:11.400 --> 00:47:14.679
no idea. She had also asked the group for tips

879
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.519
on making beef Wellington. I think this is to say

880
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:20.920
that she wasn't trying to hide these things. Both of

881
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:24.599
Aaron's children testified via video from interviews they gave in

882
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:27.400
twenty twenty three when they were nine and fourteen. The

883
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:30.800
children both confirmed that they'd eaten leftover meat from the

884
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:33.920
previous day's lunch the next night for dinner, without the

885
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:37.880
mushrooms or pastry. Allegedly, it was the portion that Aaron

886
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:41.280
had reserved for Simon. The Sun said that in recent

887
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:44.239
months his parents had been arguing more than usual. The

888
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:46.639
daughter said that her mother had told her that she

889
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:48.719
couldn't be at the lunch because they were going to

890
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:53.360
discuss adult things. Aaron testified at length in her own defense,

891
00:47:53.559 --> 00:47:56.719
maintaining that the deaths were the result of a tragic accident.

892
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:00.000
Always a risky move to testify your your own dead.

893
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:04.079
Some say that she came off as odd, joking awkwardly

894
00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:08.280
at times and sometimes appearing combative with the prosecutor. Aaron

895
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:12.400
said that she might have inadvertently mixed dried foraged mushrooms

896
00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:15.239
that she had kept mixed in with store bought ones,

897
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:19.079
not realizing that the foraged ones were Dudley. This mushroom

898
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.800
business is very confusing to me. Yeah, she had some

899
00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:26.800
mushrooms that were like in a powdered form. Then she'd

900
00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:29.960
bought some from the store, and then she admits that

901
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.800
she may have foraged some of them and somehow they

902
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:36.440
all got mixed together. She did not deny that there

903
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:39.599
were death cap mushrooms in the beef Wellington, but she

904
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:42.360
wasn't sure how they got there. She said that she

905
00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:46.280
had consumed the same meal individual parcels of beef Wellington,

906
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:50.239
but then after her guests left, she had binge eaten

907
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:53.519
about three fourths of the orange cake that Gail had made,

908
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:56.880
and then vomited it up because she was so full.

909
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:00.519
Her attorneys explained that this purging might be why she

910
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:04.239
fared better than her lunch. Yes, ok, quote, I ate

911
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:06.760
another piece of cake and then another piece, so I

912
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:08.880
went to the toilet and brought it back up again.

913
00:49:09.199 --> 00:49:11.440
After I'd done that, I felt better.

914
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:12.840
The novel defense.

915
00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:15.519
Yeah. Well, Aaron went on to explain that she had

916
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:19.159
struggled with binge eating disorder for most of her adult life.

917
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:22.199
She talked about her struggle with self esteem and how

918
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.119
putting weight on in recent years had added to her

919
00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:29.000
mental health issues. In late twenty twenty two, she felt

920
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:31.760
Simon and his family were pulling away from her and

921
00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:35.079
inviting her to fewer family functions, and that is why

922
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:37.519
she invited them to her house for lunch.

923
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:39.519
I kind of wondered about that because it seemed odd

924
00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:42.960
to invite your in laws from your husband, who you

925
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:45.599
were separated from, to a lunch. You know.

926
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:48.440
Well, I thought the idea was that she had this

927
00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:51.639
health issue and she needed their support. And Ian was

928
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:54.119
a pastor, and you know, pastors are really good to

929
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.079
talk about your struggles, right, And then I think that's

930
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:00.480
why she invited him, but clearly that that's not why

931
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:04.320
she invited them. Aaron said she prefers exotic mushrooms because

932
00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:07.119
they just taste more interesting and they have more flavor.

933
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:10.519
They tasted good and I didn't get sick. She said

934
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:13.159
she made the beef Wellington's to make something new and

935
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:17.480
special and added the dried mushrooms because the paste was bland.

936
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:20.559
The paste being like what's robbed.

937
00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:24.599
On the Yeah, the mushrooms that are finely minced, Okay,

938
00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:27.440
I don't know, I've never made beef Wellington. I've always

939
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.599
wanted to try it, but I've never made it. But

940
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:32.599
I'm not sure what you make to make the paste,

941
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:34.679
But somehow you mix it all together and you stick

942
00:50:34.679 --> 00:50:36.159
it on the beef and then you wrap it in

943
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:36.880
the pastry.

944
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:37.480
Gotcha.

945
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:40.480
I am curious too. Like here she's saying, well, it

946
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:43.360
was bland, so it means that she must have tasted it.

947
00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:46.440
And you know, if you're tasting, why didn't you get

948
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:48.519
I know she's saying that she vomited it up.

949
00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:50.440
But though that would have been she would have tasted

950
00:50:50.480 --> 00:50:53.199
it way before it was actually done.

951
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:53.480
Right.

952
00:50:53.639 --> 00:50:57.559
Yeah. She admitted that she'd disposed of the food dehydrator

953
00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:00.719
after her in laws fell ill when she she realized

954
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.119
that she may have been culpable. She admitted to lying

955
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:07.440
to investigators because she was fearful of being arrested and

956
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:11.000
losing custody of her children. Quote. I agree that I

957
00:51:11.039 --> 00:51:13.679
lied because I was afraid I would be held responsible.

958
00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:16.719
When asked if she believed that there were deathcap mushrooms

959
00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:19.599
in the beef Wellington, she replied that she did, but

960
00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:23.000
insisted that it was a horrible accident. Over the course

961
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:27.239
of eight days of testimony and crossed examination, Aarin steadfastly

962
00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:32.159
maintained her innocence, insisting that she accidentally included foraged mushrooms

963
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:33.440
in the beef Wellington.

964
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.400
The most baffling part of the case for many has

965
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:40.039
been the lack of a clear motive. Prosecutor Nannette Rogers

966
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:43.159
even struggled presenting the case with no motive. In her

967
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:47.320
closing arguments, she said, quote, she alone chose what to cook,

968
00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:50.880
obtained the ingredients, and prepared the meal. That choice to

969
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:54.920
make individual portions allowed her complete control over the ingredients

970
00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:56.440
in each individual parcel.

971
00:51:56.920 --> 00:51:59.119
I believe that Aaron said that she couldn't find the

972
00:51:59.199 --> 00:52:01.800
right cut of meat eat and that's why she chose

973
00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:04.000
to make the individual portions okay.

974
00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:07.960
On June thirtieth, twenty twenty five, the twelve jurors, seven

975
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:12.159
men and five women, began their deliberations to decide Aaron's fate.

976
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:16.519
The judge, Justice Christopher Beale, reminded the jurors that Aaron's

977
00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:19.679
lies and disposal of evidence should not bias their judgment

978
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:22.679
against her. He said, quote, this is a court of law,

979
00:52:22.880 --> 00:52:26.039
not a court of morals. The jury's decision must be

980
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:29.719
unanimous because of the media attention the case has received.

981
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:33.119
The jury was sequestered with no access to their cell phones.

982
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:36.719
In the United States, if you're an alternate jurer, you

983
00:52:36.840 --> 00:52:40.480
know that you're an alternate juror. In Australia, what they

984
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:43.480
did is right before that they were about to deliberate,

985
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:47.280
they pick two numbers, like out of a box, and

986
00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:48.559
those people were dismissed.

987
00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:51.440
Oh, that seems smart. Because you're an alternate juror, and

988
00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:53.599
you know you're an alternate juror, you might not pay

989
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:54.559
as close of attention.

990
00:52:54.719 --> 00:52:54.880
Right.

991
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:59.119
Aaron's supporters installed black tarps around the front walkway and

992
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:02.039
carport of her home to shield her from the media,

993
00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:05.480
signaling that she was hopeful of her release. On Monday,

994
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:09.039
July seventh, after six days, the jury reached a consensus.

995
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:12.519
Under Australian law, unlike in the US, none of the

996
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:16.400
jurors can be publicly identified, and they're prohibited from disclosing

997
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:20.239
jury room deliberations, which are considered secret even after the

998
00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:21.320
trial ends.

999
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.280
Which again I think that's a pretty good way of

1000
00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:24.599
handling that it is.

1001
00:53:24.679 --> 00:53:27.199
But as a true crime podcaster, I really like it

1002
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:29.039
when I can hear what the jurors have to say

1003
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:30.199
after the trial's.

1004
00:53:29.840 --> 00:53:32.280
Over, I think I realize that I forgot to say

1005
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:35.519
something that is very important. Aaron was on the stand

1006
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:38.079
testifying for eight days.

1007
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:42.320
Eight days, eight days. Wow, that's a lot of time.

1008
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.559
Right after reaching the verdict, the jury filed into the

1009
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:49.239
courtroom around two pm. The victims' families had attended the

1010
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:51.960
trial each day, but were not present when the verdict

1011
00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:55.119
was read. Aaron tried to make eye contact with the jurors,

1012
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:58.320
but they avoided her gaze. As the verdict was read,

1013
00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:01.679
she looked calm and poised, but blinked furiously, as if

1014
00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:04.639
to keep her emotions at bay. She was found guilty

1015
00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:06.880
on all three counts of murder and one count of

1016
00:54:06.920 --> 00:54:10.480
attempted murder. Her sentencing will be announced at a future date,

1017
00:54:10.599 --> 00:54:14.039
but it's likely she will receive a lifetime sentence. She

1018
00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:16.800
has twenty eight days to file an appeal, and as

1019
00:54:16.840 --> 00:54:19.840
of the time we are recording, it hasn't yet been filed.

1020
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:23.079
After the verdict, she was taken to the Maximum security

1021
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:27.639
Dame Phyllis Frost Center, the largest, toughest and only maximum

1022
00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:31.920
security women's prison in Victoria, about forty five minutes from Melbourne.

1023
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:35.199
Aarin will likely again be in solitary confinement because of

1024
00:54:35.239 --> 00:54:38.599
the severity of her crime against elderly people. The inmates

1025
00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:40.920
read the news and are well aware of who she is.

1026
00:54:41.320 --> 00:54:43.840
She will likely die in this prison unless her appeal

1027
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.280
goes through. She is the only triple murderer in the prison.

1028
00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:50.639
The Patterson and Wilkinson families decline to make a statement

1029
00:54:50.679 --> 00:54:54.159
after the verdict, but the police released the following statement quote.

1030
00:54:54.400 --> 00:54:57.599
Victoria Police acknowledged the decision of the jury today. Our

1031
00:54:57.639 --> 00:54:59.840
thoughts are with their respective families at this time. We

1032
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:03.360
acknowledge how difficult these past two years have been for them.

1033
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:06.119
We will continue to support them in every way possible

1034
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:08.840
Following this decision. We would like to acknowledge the work

1035
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:11.719
of the Homicide Squad detective over the course of this

1036
00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:15.880
complex investigation, as well as the significant support received from

1037
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:19.639
a number of other areas across Victoria Police, and that

1038
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:22.719
the Patterson and Wilkinson families will not be supplying a

1039
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:25.960
statement at this time. The beef Wellington recipe that Aaron

1040
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:28.840
used came from the book recipe Tin Eats Dinner from

1041
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:33.440
famed Australian chef Nagi Mahashi I visit her website all

1042
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:35.840
the time if you haven't gone there. She has really

1043
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:40.280
great recipes. She's adorable and very funny. She just developed

1044
00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:43.519
a recipe this week for peanut butter brownies that she

1045
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:45.880
was really proud of that. She hasn't posted the recipe yet,

1046
00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:49.039
but oh, I'm excited to make yess for you. In

1047
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:52.039
response to the media storm surrounding the case, she wrote

1048
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:56.039
on her website, quote, Dear journalists of Australia, please stop

1049
00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:59.079
calling and emailing and texting and dming me about the

1050
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:02.519
Aaron Patterson case. It is, of course upsetting to learn

1051
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:05.280
that one of my recipes, possibly the one that I've

1052
00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:09.159
spent more hours perfecting than any other, something I created

1053
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:13.320
to bring joy and happiness, is entangled in a tragic situation.

1054
00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:15.639
Other than that, I have nothing to say and I

1055
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:19.760
won't be talking to anyone. Thank you for respecting my privacy.

1056
00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:22.159
I mean, really, if you think about it, why would why.

1057
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:27.079
Would just and her recipe did not say death cap

1058
00:56:27.239 --> 00:56:31.519
mushrooms in it. Lauren Sykes, a Swinburne University PhD candidate

1059
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:35.239
in true crime podcasting, told news dot com dot Au

1060
00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:38.599
that the media and public have turned a devastating loss

1061
00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:42.280
of life into a show for their own amusement. Quote

1062
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:45.239
from an avalanche of memes about the case to journalists

1063
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:48.119
hounding the author of the cookbook Patterson based or Beef

1064
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:51.679
Wellington recipe on, there has been no shortage of unhelpful

1065
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:55.440
and deeply unseerious behavior online which has been spurred by

1066
00:56:55.440 --> 00:56:58.480
this case. The Aaron Patterson case had all the hallmarks

1067
00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:03.199
of a classic true crime til fraud interpersonal family relationships

1068
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:06.320
which led to murder a perpetrator who has been described

1069
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:10.639
as narcissistic and evil in an investigation with enough twists

1070
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:14.400
and turns to rival any true crime podcaster series. The

1071
00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:17.800
tense media and public attention on this case was inevitable,

1072
00:57:17.880 --> 00:57:21.000
but the amount of online discussion and in person gossiping

1073
00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:24.320
about the Patterson case reveals how easy it is to

1074
00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:28.000
turn unthinkable tragedy into an amusing pop culture moment. To

1075
00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:31.639
chat about murder is not fun. Having not just one,

1076
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:34.480
but several family members ripped away from you by the

1077
00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:37.719
actions of another is a harrowing experience. The last thing

1078
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:40.400
the Patterson and Wilkinson families need is more eyes on

1079
00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:43.280
them during such a horrifying moment in their lives. This

1080
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:45.599
pain and grief will be with them for the rest

1081
00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:49.079
of their lives. The intense international media coverage of this

1082
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:52.320
case has received will certainly not have helped them grieve.

1083
00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:54.119
Well, that's a very well said statement.

1084
00:57:54.280 --> 00:57:56.679
I thought so too, And we think we talk about

1085
00:57:56.679 --> 00:57:58.480
this all the time off air and on air.

1086
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:02.559
It's a struggle. I mean, we are sharing these stories

1087
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:05.480
and they are about tragic things that happen, and we

1088
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.679
try to have a little fun while we tell the stories,

1089
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.559
but we try not to let that interfere with respect

1090
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:12.119
for the victims and that type of thing.

1091
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:14.519
But we try our best, but it's a delicate balance.

1092
00:58:14.559 --> 00:58:14.719
Really.

1093
00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:17.400
Yes, we can't say it enough that we realize that

1094
00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:21.000
it is precarious the situation that we put ourselves in

1095
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:23.719
because we do respect the victims, not just the victims,

1096
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:26.360
but the families and even the communities.

1097
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:27.400
Yeah.

1098
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:30.599
The elder Pattersons and Wilkinson's lived in the quaint village

1099
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:34.360
of Cornborough, population five thousand. DoD and Gale had lived

1100
00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:36.599
there since nineteen eighty four and had raised their four

1101
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:39.920
children there. Ian Wilkinson was the pastor of the local

1102
00:58:39.960 --> 00:58:43.320
Baptist church for over twenty years. He and Heather also

1103
00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:46.840
had four children. The people of Kornborough haven't enjoyed being

1104
00:58:46.840 --> 00:58:50.320
in the spotlight. We're talking about the deceased victims. Everyone

1105
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:53.239
in the village knows someone who has been directly affected

1106
00:58:53.239 --> 00:58:57.320
by the tragedy. Nathan Hershey, a cattle farmer and counselor

1107
00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:01.199
for corn Borough, told the BBC after the Verdi was announced, quote,

1108
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:04.239
it's not an easy thing to go through a grieving process,

1109
00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:07.639
and it's particularly not easy when there's been so much attention.

1110
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:10.480
There's an opportunity now for a lot of people to

1111
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.920
be able to have some closure. The locals are fiercely

1112
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:17.199
loyal and grateful to Gail, Don, Heather and Ian who

1113
00:59:17.239 --> 00:59:20.239
helped build and strengthen their community. Don was a former

1114
00:59:20.280 --> 00:59:23.599
beloved school teacher. Hershey said, quote, you'll hear a lot

1115
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:26.679
of people talk very fondly about Don, about the impact

1116
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:28.920
he had on them. He was a great teacher and

1117
00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:32.159
a really engaging person as well. Gail and Heather were

1118
00:59:32.159 --> 00:59:35.480
known for their kindness, generosity and willingness to volunteer for

1119
00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:39.639
various community projects. Hershey said, quote, lives in our local

1120
00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:42.480
community have changed forever. But I would say for a

1121
00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.760
lot of people it's just become almost like pop culture.

1122
00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:48.360
Though the past two years has at times brought out

1123
00:59:48.360 --> 00:59:50.599
the worst in our community, it's also shown a light

1124
00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:52.599
on the best. We want to be known as a

1125
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:55.880
community that has been strong and has supported one another,

1126
00:59:56.400 --> 00:59:58.559
rather than a place that has known for what we

1127
00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:02.239
now know was murder. Three crosses were mounted at the

1128
01:00:02.360 --> 01:00:05.239
entrance of the township and the victim's honor. A message

1129
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.639
was posted outside of the church where Ian is pastor

1130
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:11.480
after the verdict was read, quote, we all greatly miss Heather,

1131
01:00:11.639 --> 01:00:13.920
Don and Gail. Whether we were friends for a short

1132
01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:17.320
time or over twenty years, they were very special people

1133
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:19.960
who loved God and love to bless others. It's been

1134
01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:23.400
a long journey, and we continue to support Ian Simon

1135
01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:26.480
and all of the Wilkinson and Patterson family members through

1136
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:29.559
this difficult time. We appreciate all of the care from

1137
01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:33.719
our local communities, special support from individuals and from the

1138
01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:36.719
Baptist Union of Victoria and the churches and people from

1139
01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:39.280
all over the world who have been praying for us.

1140
01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:42.760
As our pastor Ian has said, quote, life can be hard,

1141
01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:45.360
but our God is faithful and he is always with us.

1142
01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:48.920
The Wilkinson and Patterson families have asked for privacy during

1143
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:52.679
this time. Please also respect the privacy of our church family.

1144
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:55.280
Rest in peace, Gail Don and.

1145
01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:56.840
Heather, Yes, rest in peace.

1146
01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:58.719
I'm so glad Ian survived though.

1147
01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:00.960
Yeah, for sure, But it must be.

1148
01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:03.159
Hard to be the only survivor of this.

1149
01:01:03.320 --> 01:01:05.679
I'm sure there's a lot of survivors guilt that goes

1150
01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:06.320
along with that.

1151
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:09.920
Probably a lot of gratitude too. Yeah, before I ask

1152
01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:13.760
you some discussion questions, I wanted to review the exculpatory

1153
01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:18.719
and inculpatory evidence. Okay, the inculpatory evidence includes Aaron choosing

1154
01:01:18.760 --> 01:01:21.840
to make beef Wellington where she could chop up the mushrooms.

1155
01:01:22.079 --> 01:01:25.599
The mushrooms were deadly and make it really small, so

1156
01:01:25.800 --> 01:01:28.320
the guests really didn't know what they were eating. And

1157
01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:31.360
then she chose to make them into individual portions where

1158
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:35.639
she could maybe make some without the poisonous mushrooms for herself.

1159
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:37.840
And the fact that her plate was a different color.

1160
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:42.519
Right, the cancer diagnosis. She never had cancer, although I

1161
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:44.280
don't know if I said this, but during the trial

1162
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:47.159
she swore that she didn't say the word cancer, that

1163
01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:50.239
she said that she was ill. Okay, she had visited

1164
01:01:50.239 --> 01:01:53.719
the eye naturalist website searching for the death cap mushrooms,

1165
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:57.840
and her phone pinged near the reported area. Aaron claimed

1166
01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:01.599
to have bought the mushrooms at the local Asian grocery store,

1167
01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:02.440
but no one else.

1168
01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:04.960
Can remember where it was either, right, But.

1169
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:06.920
Can you imagine like the panic for the police at

1170
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:10.000
first when this, you know, just regular middle aged mom

1171
01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:12.440
is like, yeah, you know, I made this beak Wellington

1172
01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:15.119
and everyone got sick. They're probably really scared that other

1173
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:17.280
people in the community are going to get sick from

1174
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:20.280
these mushrooms, so they really did try hard to find them.

1175
01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:24.840
She reset her electronic devices to factory settings multiple times,

1176
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:28.559
she disposed of the dehydrator, and even though she said

1177
01:02:28.599 --> 01:02:32.119
she was sick, she really wasn't sick, especially compared to

1178
01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:34.679
the other people right lunch. Do you think that there's

1179
01:02:34.719 --> 01:02:36.239
any exculpatory evidence.

1180
01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:41.119
I don't recall hearing anything that was super exculpatory up

1181
01:02:41.159 --> 01:02:41.679
to this point.

1182
01:02:41.679 --> 01:02:43.800
But when I first heard about the case, when I

1183
01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:46.199
heard that she fed the leftovers to her children and

1184
01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:47.719
they didn't get sick, and I was like, well, what

1185
01:02:47.840 --> 01:02:51.039
mother would feed, you know, the leftovers to their children.

1186
01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:55.400
The prosecutor says that she'd never she had some different beef,

1187
01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:58.000
and she probably you know, gave her kids like beef

1188
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:00.360
that had never touched the mushrooms she did, and give

1189
01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:03.599
them anything that she'd scraped the toxic mushrooms from.

1190
01:03:03.760 --> 01:03:04.920
Yeah, that's probably true.

1191
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:07.760
Her son did testify though, she said, you know, we

1192
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:09.440
had the beef and it was like some of the

1193
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:13.000
best beef I'd ever had. It was delicious. The fact

1194
01:03:13.079 --> 01:03:15.320
that she shared some of the pictures with her Facebook

1195
01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:18.679
friends and she put the hydrated mushrooms, that was kind

1196
01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:20.480
of telling to me. And one of the pictures I'll

1197
01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:22.800
post the picture. I think there are fourteen mushrooms that

1198
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:25.199
she has on the tray of the dehydrator, and she

1199
01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:27.760
has them on a scale. Having them on the scale

1200
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.679
is a little damning too, because that indicates that maybe

1201
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:33.840
she knew exactly Yeah, I think, like I said, there

1202
01:03:33.840 --> 01:03:38.159
were fourteen mushrooms. One death cap mushroom might be deadly,

1203
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:41.559
but two, you know, definitely is going to be more deadly, right,

1204
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:44.880
And the fact that she dehydrated them is like there

1205
01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:48.960
were a limited supply of death cap mushrooms. She wouldn't

1206
01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:51.960
want to keep going back there, So maybe that's why

1207
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:55.360
she chose to dehydrate them too. She claimed that she

1208
01:03:55.400 --> 01:03:58.800
had been putting mushrooms in everything. She wasn't trying to

1209
01:03:58.920 --> 01:04:01.199
hide the fact that, you know, she was really into

1210
01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:04.760
mushrooms and she was feeding into her kids and dehydrating

1211
01:04:04.800 --> 01:04:08.440
them and whatnot. She was very cooperative, and the investigation,

1212
01:04:09.119 --> 01:04:10.519
you know, none of these are like, oh, yeah, she

1213
01:04:10.519 --> 01:04:12.960
couldn't have done it because she was cooperating with the police.

1214
01:04:13.400 --> 01:04:14.800
And the lack of a clear motive.

1215
01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:17.079
Yeah, that's the one that kind of gets me. I

1216
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:19.480
don't really see what the motive is there.

1217
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:23.360
I know I shouldn't be diagnosing people with psychological disorders,

1218
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:27.280
but I think Aaron could have orderline personality disorder. We

1219
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:32.679
talk about this a lot, characterized by intense emotions, unstable relationship,

1220
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:37.480
a distorted self image, and impulsive behaviors. People with BPD

1221
01:04:37.639 --> 01:04:41.559
may experience mood swings, fear of abandonment, and difficulty manning

1222
01:04:41.719 --> 01:04:45.360
managing their younger They often struggle with a deep inner turmoil,

1223
01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:49.679
and may alternate between idealizing and devaluing others. So I

1224
01:04:49.760 --> 01:04:53.800
mentioned this because she did have this distorted self image, right,

1225
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:56.800
And we talk about this every time someone in one

1226
01:04:56.840 --> 01:05:01.760
of our cases has orderline personality disorder, the fear of abandonment.

1227
01:05:02.480 --> 01:05:05.400
Simon is leaving her. She's feeling like, you know, Gail

1228
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:06.320
and done.

1229
01:05:06.159 --> 01:05:07.920
And that was her only family she had.

1230
01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:12.000
Yes, she's feeling like they're moving on without her. Yeah,

1231
01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:15.679
so I think she might have been lonely and angry.

1232
01:05:15.880 --> 01:05:18.800
It was festering in sight of her. She was fixating

1233
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:22.440
on these relationships and she just couldn't move on.

1234
01:05:22.760 --> 01:05:26.239
Yeah, that's a much more subtle and nuanced diagnosis that

1235
01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:28.519
I was going to make, which is that she had

1236
01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:30.719
a screw loose and there was just something off with her,

1237
01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:31.679
is what it seemed like.

1238
01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:34.039
So you think Aaron is guilty.

1239
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:37.000
Yes, I do think she is guilty. It just seems

1240
01:05:37.039 --> 01:05:39.800
like too it would be too much of a coincidence

1241
01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:42.480
that she didn't get sick, that she had a different

1242
01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:45.320
color plate. It just seems like too much. And the

1243
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:49.199
fact that she said that she bought the mushrooms and

1244
01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:50.920
then she had the searches.

1245
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:53.400
So all the lies that she Yeah, it's just all.

1246
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:55.880
It was all too much for me to believe. Honestly,

1247
01:05:55.880 --> 01:05:59.239
I think if she had said that she from the beginning,

1248
01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:01.760
if she said I foraged for mushrooms and I didn't

1249
01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:04.960
realize they were poisonous. I made a terrible mistake. I

1250
01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:06.800
think she might have gotten away with it. I still

1251
01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:09.559
think she might have done it intentionally, but it just

1252
01:06:09.559 --> 01:06:11.679
seems like all those lies kind of caught up to her.

1253
01:06:11.960 --> 01:06:15.159
Yeah, I agree. Why is everyone so interested in this case?

1254
01:06:15.639 --> 01:06:18.960
It's a good question. I think that the podcast PhD

1255
01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:22.639
person said it well, right, it's sort of this interpersonal

1256
01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:28.400
family dynamics and this perpetrator who is narcissistic and evil,

1257
01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:30.639
and the fact that I think any of us can

1258
01:06:30.679 --> 01:06:33.920
imagine being in a situation where we, you know, eat

1259
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:37.960
something and are poisoned and you could just feel then

1260
01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:40.440
you can just feel it. Sort of the personal nature

1261
01:06:40.480 --> 01:06:40.760
of it.

1262
01:06:40.840 --> 01:06:43.840
And I think people are really intrigued by Aaron as

1263
01:06:44.119 --> 01:06:48.800
a person. She seems like such an average middle aged woman. Right,

1264
01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:51.199
she could be your neighbor, she could be your ant,

1265
01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:55.800
She's any woman, and any person really is capable of murder.

1266
01:06:56.119 --> 01:07:00.440
Yeah, And I think also the availability of poison mushrooms,

1267
01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:01.840
I think that's all. It's a little bit of a

1268
01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:04.719
scary thing, right, just knowing that you can go pick

1269
01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:08.079
a mushroom thinking it's going to be perfectly fine, and

1270
01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:08.840
it could kill you.

1271
01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:12.000
I read a lot of accounts of people who were

1272
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:14.679
like I saw some it was more in the law,

1273
01:07:14.800 --> 01:07:17.000
and I saw some mushrooms grod in my ditch and

1274
01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:19.719
I said, well, those look delicious, and I cooked them

1275
01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:22.320
up in some bottle. Boy, that is the scary thing,

1276
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:24.119
because I did look at a lot of pictures and

1277
01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:27.840
the death cap mushrooms. They do look delicious. Yeah, I

1278
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:30.400
mean they look like, you know, just regular mushrooms. So really,

1279
01:07:30.519 --> 01:07:32.920
if you're a mushroom forager, you probably know what you're

1280
01:07:32.920 --> 01:07:33.880
doing for the most part.

1281
01:07:33.960 --> 01:07:35.599
Yeah, just be careful.

1282
01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:38.239
We talked a little bit about Switzerland, how they have

1283
01:07:38.320 --> 01:07:41.119
these stations where you can take the foraged mushroom. Yeah,

1284
01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:43.559
it is a really good idea, and they said that

1285
01:07:43.679 --> 01:07:47.760
you know, we're professionals, but sometimes we don't even really know,

1286
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:51.079
oh boy, because they can different be different colors and

1287
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:53.239
different seasons and different sizes.

1288
01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:54.519
And yeah, it's very tricky.

1289
01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:58.400
After Simon canceled, why did Aaron go through with the lunch?

1290
01:07:58.960 --> 01:08:01.599
You know, that's a very good question. It just feels

1291
01:08:01.599 --> 01:08:03.519
like she had made all these plans and she was

1292
01:08:03.599 --> 01:08:05.599
just going to go through with it no matter what.

1293
01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:08.920
Obviously she wanted him there. She made that very clear,

1294
01:08:09.039 --> 01:08:11.920
But it just almost seems like she had it all

1295
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:14.599
planned out and she didn't want to cancel her plans.

1296
01:08:14.719 --> 01:08:14.920
You know.

1297
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:17.439
Well, in the way that she could hurt Simon the

1298
01:08:17.560 --> 01:08:20.000
most would be to kill the people he loves. Yeah,

1299
01:08:20.039 --> 01:08:24.239
it's a true and talking about survivor's guilt, Simon must

1300
01:08:24.239 --> 01:08:28.359
have a horrible survivor's guilt. Yeah, I'm sure Aaron was

1301
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:31.119
a true crime consumer. Do you think that she could

1302
01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:32.960
have gotten away with it if she would? Did she

1303
01:08:33.039 --> 01:08:34.079
not plan good enough?

1304
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:37.000
Like I said before, I think she could have gotten

1305
01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:39.920
away with it if she just basically from the beginning

1306
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:43.000
made it seem like a tragic accident that she foraged

1307
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:46.760
mushrooms that were poisonous, although her Internet search histories might

1308
01:08:46.800 --> 01:08:48.640
have still brought her down with that.

1309
01:08:48.760 --> 01:08:51.119
But yeah, yeah, I think if you run the jury,

1310
01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:52.279
you would have found her guilty.

1311
01:08:52.600 --> 01:08:54.760
Yeah, I think so. I mean, like we always say,

1312
01:08:54.760 --> 01:08:57.560
it's hard to say without listening to all the testimony,

1313
01:08:57.680 --> 01:09:00.359
but from everything you shared with me about the case,

1314
01:09:00.600 --> 01:09:04.319
it seems pretty clear to me that she did it intentionally.

1315
01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:08.039
I think she came off as pretty unlikable to a

1316
01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:11.600
lot of people. Remember doctor Chris the nine to one

1317
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:14.479
one call, the zero zero zero call. We listened to ye.

1318
01:09:15.039 --> 01:09:17.840
He mentioned that he had a previous interaction with Aaron

1319
01:09:18.000 --> 01:09:21.199
years ago and he remembered her and he said that

1320
01:09:21.640 --> 01:09:24.199
he seems like a very affable guy mm hmmm, and

1321
01:09:24.600 --> 01:09:26.760
he tried to make jokes with her, you know, light

1322
01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:28.800
in the mood, and he said that she was a

1323
01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:29.600
tough crowd.

1324
01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:32.880
Yeah. I mean the way he described her, that that

1325
01:09:33.199 --> 01:09:35.600
kind of has stuck with me from when we talked

1326
01:09:35.640 --> 01:09:38.399
about that because he couldn't he couldn't describe her very well,

1327
01:09:38.399 --> 01:09:40.720
but he was like, there's just something off about her,

1328
01:09:40.840 --> 01:09:43.439
and that really I can kind of see that well.

1329
01:09:43.479 --> 01:09:46.479
Speaking of doctor Webster, he is very important to the case.

1330
01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:49.920
Had he not called Triple Zero, scraps from the meal

1331
01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:52.640
might not have been gathered in time and they became

1332
01:09:52.720 --> 01:09:55.880
a key piece of evidence. The police went looking for Aaron.

1333
01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:58.239
They went to her house. When she didn't appear to

1334
01:09:58.279 --> 01:10:01.560
be home, they notified doctor Webster, who then told them

1335
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:04.720
to check her trash for the beef. Wellington. He said

1336
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:07.960
that he almost instantly realized that Aaron was a murderer

1337
01:10:08.039 --> 01:10:10.560
after she left the hospital the first time. His nurse

1338
01:10:10.600 --> 01:10:13.279
said quote looks like someone is trying to do away

1339
01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:16.560
with the church crowd. But doctor Chris is now under

1340
01:10:16.640 --> 01:10:20.000
fire for his comments, and he has been accused of misogyny.

1341
01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:22.720
When I read this, I'm not sure. I think that

1342
01:10:22.720 --> 01:10:25.800
other people are talking about when he called Aaron some names,

1343
01:10:25.800 --> 01:10:28.079
he called the bitch and other things, so I think

1344
01:10:28.119 --> 01:10:32.279
people were citing that as misogyny. So he's a little

1345
01:10:32.359 --> 01:10:36.600
nervous that his reputation is ruined. I think most people

1346
01:10:37.079 --> 01:10:38.439
probably don't think that. I don't know.

1347
01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:41.279
Yeah, I mean I don't know either. I haven't listened

1348
01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:43.039
to everything that he's said to me.

1349
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:46.000
I'm not sure how the laws work in Australia. I

1350
01:10:46.039 --> 01:10:48.399
think our friend Shanala asked her about this and she

1351
01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:51.800
wasn't sure either. But the police went in Aaron's trash

1352
01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:55.239
to get the beef Wellington out, and I don't believe

1353
01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:57.039
they had a search warrant because I don't think they

1354
01:10:57.039 --> 01:10:59.640
could have gotten one so quickly, because remember Aaron was

1355
01:11:00.000 --> 01:11:01.920
I got the hospital at eight am and they were

1356
01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:04.359
in our house by ten am. So like in the

1357
01:11:04.439 --> 01:11:07.159
United States, you have to have a search warrant. I

1358
01:11:07.159 --> 01:11:10.039
think unless the trash is out at the current was.

1359
01:11:10.079 --> 01:11:11.680
The trash in the house or was it.

1360
01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:13.199
I don't think the trash was in the house. I

1361
01:11:13.239 --> 01:11:15.000
think it was. Yeah, I don't know if it was

1362
01:11:15.319 --> 01:11:18.159
you know, out at the road or you know, if

1363
01:11:18.159 --> 01:11:20.640
it was by the house. That would be something that

1364
01:11:20.680 --> 01:11:22.720
I would be afraid that might come back in an

1365
01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:26.960
appeal situation if it wasn't properly. But I haven't heard

1366
01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:31.520
anyone mention that, so it's probably you know, y legal. Yeah,

1367
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:35.079
I do want to mention my sources for this episode.

1368
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:38.359
I listened to a couple of different podcasts, the Mushroom

1369
01:11:38.439 --> 01:11:43.359
Cook podcast and the Mushroom Mushroom Trial podcast. I watched

1370
01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:46.640
an episode of sixty Minutes Australia which I watched a

1371
01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:48.760
few of those for different cases, and they really do

1372
01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:51.159
a good job in that show. And I also read

1373
01:11:52.079 --> 01:11:55.439
about one hundred articles. Yeah, I hope they did it justice.

1374
01:11:55.479 --> 01:11:59.600
But the podcasts the other podcasts were really interesting and informative.

1375
01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:03.479
I just have such a love for our Australian listeners.

1376
01:12:04.000 --> 01:12:07.479
They just seem like the best people. So thanks to

1377
01:12:07.479 --> 01:12:10.560
Schanella who I mentioned, and Sarah who helped me out,

1378
01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.439
and Dave who is your friend who always helps us

1379
01:12:14.439 --> 01:12:16.239
out too, So we love you guys, and we really

1380
01:12:16.279 --> 01:12:19.800
appreciate your assistance. Oh and one more, Bronnie, Bronnie b

1381
01:12:20.159 --> 01:12:22.520
thank you so much. I love you, appreciate you.

1382
01:12:22.880 --> 01:12:25.239
And one of the things that Dave assisted us on,

1383
01:12:25.319 --> 01:12:27.840
although not in time, I messaged him a while ago,

1384
01:12:27.880 --> 01:12:30.880
but we're probabys. Like, pronunciations are always a challenge of

1385
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:32.640
like cities and things like that, and there were a

1386
01:12:32.640 --> 01:12:35.479
lot in this episode of different pronunciations, but the big

1387
01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:39.359
one Melbourne or Melbourne or Melbourne depending on then who

1388
01:12:39.399 --> 01:12:41.279
you asked. So I messaged Dave and I asked him

1389
01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:44.119
how you pronounced that the name of that city because

1390
01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:47.760
he's from there. And here's what he had to say, Melbourne.

1391
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:50.560
So Melbourne Melbourne, which sounds really weird.

1392
01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:54.039
It sounds weird in our American accent, it sounds, you know, great,

1393
01:12:54.079 --> 01:12:56.840
in the Australian accent. So we try our best, but

1394
01:12:56.880 --> 01:12:59.560
obviously we make mistakes. We did all the time, and

1395
01:12:59.560 --> 01:13:00.000
that's okay.

1396
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:05.239
Hey, that's okay.

1397
01:13:07.079 --> 01:13:09.880
So I talked to a lot of listeners online, especially

1398
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:13.119
on Instagram, and I love talking to everyone, but this

1399
01:13:13.239 --> 01:13:17.279
is kind of funny. If you change your profile picture,

1400
01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:20.640
I'm not going to know who I'm talking to and

1401
01:13:20.840 --> 01:13:22.560
a lot of people like I don't even know, Like

1402
01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:25.000
when I said Bronni, I'm like, I think that's her name,

1403
01:13:25.000 --> 01:13:26.560
but I'm not even I don't know what you know.

1404
01:13:26.640 --> 01:13:30.399
Sometimes people like their Instagram profile name isn't their real name.

1405
01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:33.199
It's just like loves flowers or something, you know, whatever

1406
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:36.520
it is. Like, So, you know, try not to change

1407
01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:39.600
your profile picture because I might not know who you are,

1408
01:13:39.760 --> 01:13:41.680
which I feel really bad saying. Which is great.

1409
01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:45.479
It's a common thing. I think you remember somebody based

1410
01:13:45.479 --> 01:13:47.279
on their profile picture got their name.

1411
01:13:47.439 --> 01:13:49.960
Yeah, well you know that I'm young and hip and cool.

1412
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:52.359
Because I watched Love Island, of course, I've learned a

1413
01:13:52.359 --> 01:13:54.920
lot of new words. Yeah, and I thought I might

1414
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:57.199
give you a little quiz to see if you know

1415
01:13:57.359 --> 01:13:59.399
what some of these words that I'm going to be

1416
01:13:59.479 --> 01:14:00.760
using now around the house.

1417
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:03.319
Okay, well I probably won't, but this will be good

1418
01:14:03.319 --> 01:14:03.560
for me.

1419
01:14:04.000 --> 01:14:05.319
I think you're going to. I think you're going to

1420
01:14:05.399 --> 01:14:07.560
know some of them, and I hope it will help

1421
01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:11.520
our listeners be able to talk to your your zoomers.

1422
01:14:12.800 --> 01:14:14.880
See, I don't even know what a zoomers you do.

1423
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:17.039
Our kids talk about it all you've heard.

1424
01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:19.920
The term, but I really don't know where a zoomer

1425
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:23.399
is in the whole you know scheme of different generations.

1426
01:14:23.560 --> 01:14:26.079
Okay, well, our kids are zoomers, and we do have

1427
01:14:26.119 --> 01:14:28.399
some younger people that listen to us too, but I

1428
01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:31.159
think most people are you know, parents that listen to us.

1429
01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:35.680
Or what does CAP mean? Cap or no cap? I'm

1430
01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:36.800
going to give you some options.

1431
01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:39.119
I think cap is something to do with like your

1432
01:14:39.239 --> 01:14:43.920
salary in Major League Baseball? Okay, but go ahead.

1433
01:14:44.079 --> 01:14:46.479
Does it mean if someone says that's cap, doesn't mean

1434
01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:51.600
A that's a lie, B that's a trend, C that's cool,

1435
01:14:52.119 --> 01:14:53.680
or D that's confusing.

1436
01:14:54.359 --> 01:14:56.840
I'm going to go with that's cool because it sounds

1437
01:14:56.840 --> 01:14:59.359
sort of like capital, like maybe it's short for.

1438
01:14:59.640 --> 01:15:03.600
Capeople say cap or no cap, So you're wrong. Cap

1439
01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:08.960
means lie and no cap means for real. Okay, what

1440
01:15:09.000 --> 01:15:13.079
do you think bussin means bustin? This mac and cheese

1441
01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:18.399
is bustin' A it's rich, B it's spicy, C it's delician,

1442
01:15:18.640 --> 01:15:21.720
or D it's hot bustin' by the way you spelled

1443
01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:22.479
b U s S.

1444
01:15:22.520 --> 01:15:24.960
I n Oh, what are my choices?

1445
01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:28.920
I have no idea rich, spicy, delicious or too hot.

1446
01:15:29.840 --> 01:15:32.359
I'm just gonna go with delicious, but I really have

1447
01:15:32.399 --> 01:15:32.840
no idea.

1448
01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:37.640
Correct she means really really good. Our son said, this

1449
01:15:37.720 --> 01:15:39.359
is an older one and I shouldn't do it, but

1450
01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:43.319
I'm just gonna do it anyway. Giacht it's g y at,

1451
01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:49.920
she's got that giat walking past A swag, B energy,

1452
01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:51.439
C hair or D.

1453
01:15:51.640 --> 01:15:53.960
Backside um swag.

1454
01:15:54.520 --> 01:16:01.319
No, it is slang for big butt, usually said or thirst.

1455
01:16:01.359 --> 01:16:06.960
I'm saying for dead ass, you dead ass forgot your

1456
01:16:07.039 --> 01:16:13.000
keys again? A seriously, be accidentally, C nervously or D loudly.

1457
01:16:13.239 --> 01:16:16.239
I think this one is seriously correct. Okay, that one,

1458
01:16:16.359 --> 01:16:18.359
that's the only one I felt like I kind of

1459
01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:18.880
might have.

1460
01:16:19.079 --> 01:16:21.000
I am not keeping a score just for the record.

1461
01:16:21.000 --> 01:16:23.840
If you want to keep your own score, that's good. Simpin.

1462
01:16:24.439 --> 01:16:29.600
He's texting her fourteen times a day total, simp simp

1463
01:16:30.119 --> 01:16:38.039
he's obsessed, he's threatening, he's detached, or he's confused threatening, No,

1464
01:16:38.680 --> 01:16:42.560
he's obsessed. Simping means doing too much for someone who

1465
01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:47.840
isn't reciprocating. Okay, what would we have called like he's whipped?

1466
01:16:47.920 --> 01:16:48.279
Maybe?

1467
01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:53.720
Yeah? Crashing out? Bro is crashing out over his breakup.

1468
01:16:54.199 --> 01:16:58.520
A taking a nap, B giving up, C going wild

1469
01:16:58.600 --> 01:17:03.039
and ruining everything, or D posting cryptic Instagram stories.

1470
01:17:03.279 --> 01:17:05.159
I would have said taking a nap, but that's what

1471
01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:07.119
you know, we would have said years ago. I'm going

1472
01:17:07.159 --> 01:17:10.239
to crash, yeah, but I'm gonna say going wild.

1473
01:17:10.279 --> 01:17:15.560
Yeah, losing control, self distracting, usually emotionally orient cassively. I

1474
01:17:15.600 --> 01:17:18.800
think you're gonna nail this snax RIZ.

1475
01:17:19.319 --> 01:17:20.239
I know this one.

1476
01:17:20.479 --> 01:17:22.960
I think you do. He doesn't look like much, but

1477
01:17:23.039 --> 01:17:27.680
his riz is crazy. A, his jokes, be his money,

1478
01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:30.479
see his fashion, D his charm or.

1479
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:33.399
Game charm because it's short for charisma.

1480
01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:38.239
Right exactly. Yes, sending me slash I'm dead. That video

1481
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:43.159
is sending me I'm dead. Does it mean ay, I'm confused,

1482
01:17:43.239 --> 01:17:46.560
B I'm laughing way too hard, See I'm offended, or

1483
01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:47.920
D I'm out of here.

1484
01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:49.960
I'm gonna say I'm laughing way too hard.

1485
01:17:50.199 --> 01:17:55.840
Yeah, it's the modern lol extreme laughter. You're doing great, sweetie.

1486
01:17:56.359 --> 01:18:00.920
That as main character energy. She's walking like she's got

1487
01:18:01.000 --> 01:18:05.119
main character energy. Is it a self centered B she's

1488
01:18:05.239 --> 01:18:09.039
confident like the star of the show. See she's extra D.

1489
01:18:09.279 --> 01:18:10.439
She's looking for attention.

1490
01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:13.000
Oh boy, those all those all sound kind of similar.

1491
01:18:13.039 --> 01:18:15.840
I mean, I I think, like being self centered, Like

1492
01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:16.239
you're the.

1493
01:18:16.920 --> 01:18:19.399
Star of the show, right, so you kind of you

1494
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:20.119
the first.

1495
01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:21.760
The first two sound kind of similar to me.

1496
01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:24.039
Yeah, I mean you're right, they're similar. But yeah, like

1497
01:18:24.079 --> 01:18:27.159
she's star, the star of her show. I think you

1498
01:18:27.199 --> 01:18:28.560
know the last one too. I think everyone knows the

1499
01:18:28.600 --> 01:18:31.520
last one. Maybe I'm wrong, but touch grass, dude, just

1500
01:18:31.640 --> 01:18:33.920
touch grass? Oh you don't know, Okay, I've never heard

1501
01:18:33.920 --> 01:18:37.000
that before. A smoke weed be go outside and chill,

1502
01:18:37.359 --> 01:18:39.760
see get back to work or d work out?

1503
01:18:40.119 --> 01:18:41.560
I guess go outside and chill.

1504
01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:44.600
Yeah. Yeah, like if someone's you know, just kind of

1505
01:18:44.640 --> 01:18:48.079
reeling or you know, upset, you just want to unplug

1506
01:18:48.159 --> 01:18:49.680
and go touch grass. Yeah.

1507
01:18:49.800 --> 01:18:51.680
Well, I want to thank you for making me feel

1508
01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:53.640
older than I've ever felt in my life.

1509
01:18:53.880 --> 01:18:57.840
So well, there's a couple other ones that are funny,

1510
01:18:57.960 --> 01:19:00.640
Like you've heard people sometimes and then I will say,

1511
01:19:00.640 --> 01:19:03.840
we're gonna have girl dinner. Do you know what that means?

1512
01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:06.079
I just assume that meant you were going to have

1513
01:19:06.119 --> 01:19:07.399
dinner with our doughter.

1514
01:19:08.600 --> 01:19:11.960
Well, usually it means like like girls are I think

1515
01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:13.840
boys do it too, but like we'll just have like

1516
01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:17.439
a smoothie and like, I don't know, just like an

1517
01:19:17.479 --> 01:19:19.359
easy dinner. I think a lot of times people have

1518
01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:22.079
like cottage cheese or it's just like a really simple

1519
01:19:22.199 --> 01:19:24.920
quick dinner. Gotcha, Well, the quiz is over. I think

1520
01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:27.760
you did great. I think adjusted for your age, I

1521
01:19:27.800 --> 01:19:29.720
think you got like a B plus.

1522
01:19:29.800 --> 01:19:30.920
Okay, I'll take it.

1523
01:19:31.199 --> 01:19:34.520
Do you know what it means if someone says I

1524
01:19:34.720 --> 01:19:40.119
ate or they ate uh not or left no crumbs

1525
01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:40.880
that's similar.

1526
01:19:41.319 --> 01:19:42.279
No, I don't think I know.

1527
01:19:42.319 --> 01:19:44.279
That means you killed it, you did a really good job.

1528
01:19:44.399 --> 01:19:46.640
Okay. I think I've heard that in sports before, so

1529
01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:47.399
I should.

1530
01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:48.680
I didn't know that was a Yeah.

1531
01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:50.600
I think like if a player did really well, like

1532
01:19:50.680 --> 01:19:51.920
I think they might say I ate.

1533
01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:54.800
But okay, one more that I've actually added to my Okay,

1534
01:19:54.840 --> 01:19:56.439
but I think the ones that I actually know are

1535
01:19:56.479 --> 01:19:58.920
probably older. I'm sure, like this is probably all of

1536
01:19:58.960 --> 01:20:02.199
these are probably like gone and I have expired. It's

1537
01:20:02.279 --> 01:20:06.039
not cool anymore. But mid mid Yeah, that's I think

1538
01:20:06.039 --> 01:20:08.479
that's a really good term for a lot of things.

1539
01:20:08.560 --> 01:20:11.239
Yeah, that kind of capture is like something that's just sort.

1540
01:20:11.000 --> 01:20:13.760
Of like kind of average. It's yeah, like a movie

1541
01:20:13.760 --> 01:20:14.479
that you kind of liked.

1542
01:20:14.600 --> 01:20:15.479
Yeah, I like that one.

1543
01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:19.000
You're such a good sport. I appreciate you letting me

1544
01:20:19.359 --> 01:20:22.039
try to embarrass you all the time, but you always

1545
01:20:22.159 --> 01:20:23.560
are up for anything.

1546
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:24.800
Always happy to be embarrassed.

1547
01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:26.960
All right, before we go for real, I just wanted

1548
01:20:26.960 --> 01:20:29.680
to say thank you to everyone who leaves us nice

1549
01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:33.079
encouraging messages. And we just got a super sweet email

1550
01:20:33.119 --> 01:20:35.840
from our listener Carla today that made us both smile.

1551
01:20:36.359 --> 01:20:40.239
We read them, we appreciate them, and we're just always

1552
01:20:40.319 --> 01:20:43.960
very overwhelmed and just grateful for all of you and

1553
01:20:44.000 --> 01:20:47.560
your support. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us

1554
01:20:47.600 --> 01:20:50.680
on social media, or send us an email at Lovemrykill

1555
01:20:50.840 --> 01:20:53.880
at gmail dot com, and please consider supporting us on

1556
01:20:53.960 --> 01:20:57.880
Patreon dot com, slash Love Mary Kill one tier five

1557
01:20:57.960 --> 01:21:00.359
dollars a month for early ad free accent in a

1558
01:21:00.439 --> 01:21:01.640
monthly bonus.

1559
01:21:01.279 --> 01:21:03.760
Episode, or if you want to send us a snack.

1560
01:21:03.640 --> 01:21:04.880
Or cash cash money.

1561
01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:07.720
Oh, just send us a snack if you want to.

1562
01:21:07.920 --> 01:21:09.439
Yeah, I'm just kidding. We don't need your money.

1563
01:21:09.479 --> 01:21:13.039
Send it to LMK pod po box one one one, Dexter,

1564
01:21:13.159 --> 01:21:15.479
Michigan four eight one three zero.

1565
01:21:16.000 --> 01:21:19.000
Until next time, don't kill your wife, and don't kill

1566
01:21:19.039 --> 01:22:01.880
your husband,