April 6, 2026

Generosa and Ted Ammon - Part 2

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To the outside world, Ted Ammon had built the kind of life most people only dream about — a self-made Wall Street titan worth nearly $100 million, a Hamptons beach mansion, and twin children he adored. But behind the facade, his marriage to the brilliant, volatile Generosa had curdled into something dangerous. A bitter divorce, a secret affair, and a brash Long Island electrician with a criminal record had pushed an already unstable situation to the breaking point.

When Ted's business partner flew out to the East Hampton beach house one October morning, what he found inside would haunt him forever. Thirty or more blows to the head. Stun gun burns. And not a single witness in sight.

No murder weapon. No DNA. No fingerprints. Just a dead man in a mansion.

Today's snack: Ruffles/Doritos Flavor Swap and Reese's Creme Egg

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WEBVTT

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Hi.

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I'm Rich and I'm Tina.

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If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years

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of marriage, it's.

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That some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill.

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Hey Tina, Hey Rich? How are you today?

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I am good.

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How are you doing okay? I've been battling a little

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bit of a headache all day, but now I am

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feeling better because I'm here with you to talk about

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part two of this interesting case.

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I'm wearing yellow today, so I hope that makes you

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feel more positive.

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Yes, yes, it's not a bright yellow though, it's kind

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of a mustard yellow. Would you call that?

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Sure? I don't know.

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It was hard to tear myself away from the neighborhood

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drama that's shaping up in.

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Our You have been tuned in, you know.

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I love a good subdivision drama thing, and this one's

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pretty interesting.

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Normally it's pretty boring around here. We all kind of

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keep to ourselves. We all do our own thing.

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I am a little worried, though, do you think anybody

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in our subdivision listens to us?

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I mean, you're not going to say anything that's not true?

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That's true. I'm not going to name names either. Well,

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but our subdivision it's kind of out in the country.

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It's a subdivision, but it's surrounded by farmland and woods.

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But I wouldn't call it a country subdivision because we

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have rules and you have to adhere the rules.

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Right. Yes, it is a traditional subdivision.

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With an HOA and it's a nice subdivision and everyone like,

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you have to treat your grass chemically or people will

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be angry with you.

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Yes, exactly what we.

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Have hero dandelions are encouraged, right.

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But we have coyotes in the neighborhood. That's part of

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what you get when you live out in the middle

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of kind of farmland and stuff. We hear them at night.

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That's kind of spooky, like they make really kind of

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scary noises.

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It does sound like a Disney movie sometimes, like the

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bad parts of a Disney movie. Yeah, I did read today.

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I was doing a little bit of research. There are

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eighty three counties in Michigan, and all eighty three counties

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have coyotes.

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Yeah, and we've had them at other places we've lived

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as well.

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But they're louder here, I think, Yeah.

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They really are, and so our HOA sent out an

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email a week ago or so saying they were going

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to hire a company to come in and try to

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trap them and remove them humanly.

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I did not get that email to do.

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Yeah, I got the email. But then today someone saw

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like someone was out and they shot. That's a scandal

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like in our like in our neighborhood, close to houses,

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and I think it was the whatever company they hired

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came and actually shot a coyote and the person confronted

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them and they said, yeah, we're shooting the coyotes and

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if we find the little the pups, we're going to

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shoot them too, And so people were pretty outraged on Facebook.

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I'm outraged.

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And then our next door neighbor, who is the president

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of the HOA, he deleted the poets from Facebook and

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he kicked the people out of the group. But somebody

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else was also an admin of the group and screenshot

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and the fact that he kicked these people out.

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I'm very grateful that they did.

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I know they brought receipts to it. So now everybody's

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up in arms. They're calling for him to be recalled

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as the as the HOA president, and I'm waiting for

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his response. But it hasn't come yet.

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We will keep you updated, definitely by the end of

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the episode. We all haven't updated, but it's been several

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hours since you sent me the screen shots, and so

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I don't I would think that he would have responded.

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He's the kind of guy that would definitely respond right away,

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and he is our next door neighbor. I feel like

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we don't know them well. They seem like nice enough people,

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and like we were talking about earlier, I don't want

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to be the president of the HOA same, yeah, but

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I don't love the thought of things being shot in

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our subdivision either. And what time did this happen? Were

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there kids around? You know? Did kids waiting for the

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bus have to see that or you know?

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Well, that's an issue, But the bigger shoot to me

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is like you told people you were going to do

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this and then you were going to get rid of them,

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And the fact that you're kicking people off the Facebook group,

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I'm not sure how you defend that. So we will

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break in if we have any breaking news on this topic.

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But onto better things. I have a snack for you.

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Wait, didn't you say that there was like a picture

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of someone there was a video a video of someone

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disposing of one of them.

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They were dragging the dead coyote through this through the brush.

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That's really disturbing.

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Yeah, but let's let's have a snack. Okay. I went

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to the gas station and I got gas station snacks,

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and you seem really exciting.

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So you did get me a soda, which was really

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nice because I have been cutting down on my soda.

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That's right, part of our union agreement. But it turns

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out the Dorito's people and the Ruffles people have gone

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a little bit nuts and they are doing a flavor swap.

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So there are Doritos that are traditional Ruffles flavor and

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sour cream, and there are Ruffles that our traditional Dorito's

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flavor of cool ranch. So that's going to be pretty crazy.

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And then I also got you a Reese's cream egg

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because it is almost Easter.

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So wow, you spoil me. I sure do want to

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give them a tryal, I offered to make a homemade

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treat today and you said, no, no, no, there's.

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Nothing better than a good gas station treat. All right,

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let's do it.

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All right?

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What did you think about that crazy flavor swap?

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It was very strange experience.

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It was kind of strange.

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The Dorito's to me tasted just like doritos, yes, tasting

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cheddar and sour cream, and I don't there must maybe

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there's a psychological term for that, but I just tasted

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like a dorito. To me, it was good, fine. And

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also with the ruffles, I don't know what that flavor was,

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but again it didn't taste like a cool ranch.

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Yeah I didn't. I didn't really care for the ruffles.

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I don't love cheddar and sour cream flavor, and I

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felt like that that's what the ruffles taste. I don't know,

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but ruffles are probably my favorite package, like potato chip,

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other than like you know, the local Michigan rans we have.

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I think the Doritos and ruffles people should go back

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in their own corners and do their own thing.

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I agree. I did not take a bite of the

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Reese's egg because I there's although that's too many slavers,

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and I think it would taste really bad.

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I chose it specifically to pair well, well, you said.

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I got this for you, and then you proceeded to

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take a big bite of it. I was like, I

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thought that was a gift.

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Well it was, but I had to at least try it.

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Well, what did you think it was? It good?

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It was good. Yeah, it wasn't really any better than

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traditional Reesa's egg, but yeah, it was good.

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You didn't really describe it. It's not like the it's like.

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It looks like a Cadbury egg, Yeah, exactly, And it's

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like the peanut butter in the mill is a little creamier,

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but it's not that dramatically different.

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Should we get back to the case.

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Sure, would you like to give us a recap of

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part one?

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Absolutely? In part one, we met Ted Ammon, a Pittsburgh

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born overachiever who climbed from international banking to the highest

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levels of Wall Street, passing both the English and New

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York bar exams without a law degree, and eventually joining

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the legendary firm KKR, where he helped engineer the thirty

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one billion takeover of r JR Nabisco, one of the

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largest leveraged bioutes in history. Jennerosa Rand had a much

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more turbulent beginning. Abandoned, passed between families, unmolested as a child,

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she remade herself through sheer will, moving to New York

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and building a career in real estate and design. When

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she and Ted met in nineteen eighty three. The attraction

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was immediate. They married in nineteen eighty six, adopted twins

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from Ukraine, and became one of Manhattan's most prominent power couples.

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But wealth didn't bring peace. Generosa grew increasingly volatile and controlling,

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while Ted quietly began an affair with a colleague named

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Lori Finkel, who bore him a son. I thought you

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said that wasn't You aren't sure if that happened or not.

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You're correct, she did have a son, but it's not

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one hundred percent confirmed whether it was his or not.

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When Generosa discovered he had consulted a divorce lawyer, she

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launched an all out war, filing for divorce, demanding millions,

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turning the children against their father, and taking up with

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a rough edged electrician named Danny Pelosi. Danny, broken, desperate,

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was happy to play along. We left off with a

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divorce growing uglier by the day, Danny installing secret cameras

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throughout Ted's East Hampton home, and a situation about to

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turn dangerous.

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Anything that I missed in that recap that we should

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talk about, well.

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Ted had cut Generosa off from any funding. That's right,

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and she had been spending at least one hundred thousand

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dollars a month on hotels and other things.

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Right, yeah, she was living it up, trying to establish

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this high standard of living so that a judge would

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rule in her favor when it came down to it.

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She had a whole staff of people working for her show,

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like a chauffeur and a chef cook, and she was

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generously paying them to inflate her monthly expenses.

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Exactly outside of a family court hearing. In August two

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thousand and one, Danny pulled Ted aside and said something

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that Ted couldn't quite let go of. Danny told him

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not to think he was the only one with money

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or the only one who knew people. Danny knew people too.

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He dropped an Italian family name into the conversation. He

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never said the word mafia, and he never made a

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direct threat, but Ted heard it as one. Ted's sister

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and his business partner again urged him to hire a bodyguard,

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but again he refused. He told them that it would

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be irrational for Generosa and Danny to harm him. They

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would be the only suspects hurting him would accomplish the

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exact opposite of what they wanted. The logic seemed sound.

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Ted Ammon was a rational man, and he kept applying

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rational thinking to an increasingly irrational situation. The financial pressure

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on Generosa was ramping up. She had been quietly hitting

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up friends for loans with little success. She approached one

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friend and asked for help. The friend assumed she needed

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some cash to cover bills, maybe a few thousand dollars.

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How much the friend asked? Ten million dollars, Generosa said

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the friend had no idea what to say. Say anyone

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ever hit you up for over a.

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Million, I mean, I think everyone would know better.

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Ted made his first formal divorce settlement offer ten million

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in cash plus the townhouse that Generosa had been renovating,

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a property worth around eight million. He would cover all

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expenses for the children.

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You had said the last episode. At the peak of

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Ted's wealth, I think he was worth four hundred million dollars,

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and at this point he was worth like two hundred million.

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I think when all was said and done, at the

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time of his death he was worth about ninety million,

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So his net worth had dropped pretty significantly from the

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four hundred million which was at its peak.

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So he offered her ten million, and ten million adjusted

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for inflation is about eighteen point five million today, so

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that sounds like a pretty decent amount of money.

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Well ten million plus us the eight million dollars town house,

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so really even even more than that.

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But the townhouse wasn't finished yet, was it.

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It wasn't finished, but it was worth eight millions.

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So that's where she had planned on moving with the kids.

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Yeah, she was turning it into a Jetson's themed that's right,

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I forgot townhouse. Yeah. When Danny heard the terms that

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Ted had offered, he thought it sounded like winning the lottery.

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He urged Generosa to take it, but she said it

239
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was an insult. Ted was denying her the London flat,

240
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the Surrey Manor, and the beach House, which was the

241
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most important place in the world to her. She was

242
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still convinced that Ted was worth hundreds of millions and

243
00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.720
was trying to cheat her. In response to this insult,

244
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she went to the beach House and started throwing Ted's

245
00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:46.879
belongings out the window. His expensive clothes went first, Then

246
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:50.879
somehow she managed to push his prized mahogany and slate desk,

247
00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.279
worth forty one thousand dollars out of the second floor window.

248
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It hit the driveway stones and shattered. Next came a

249
00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:01.919
seven foot antique grandfather clock valued at one hundred thousand dollars.

250
00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:05.480
Then his two thousand dollars cappuccino maker, which landed on

251
00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:08.159
top of the pile. She grabbed a lighter and lighter

252
00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.200
fluid and set the whole thing on fire. Danny watched,

253
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unable to stop her. One afternoon, Danny's daughter, Rochelle, was

254
00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:17.919
visiting with some of her high school friends. They were

255
00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:21.919
all sprawled in the living room, relaxed, laughing. Rochelle stood

256
00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:25.360
behind her father on the couch and affectionately rubbed his shoulders.

257
00:12:25.639 --> 00:12:28.600
Generosa shrieked at her from across the room. Get your

258
00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.799
hands off him, He's mine. The room went silent as

259
00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:36.799
everyone stared. Later, Generosa accused Danny of incest. He told

260
00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.279
her she was out of her mind. What he didn't

261
00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.519
know was that Generosa had been molested by a relative

262
00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:45.279
as a young child. She had never told Danny, but

263
00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:50.399
it was there, always, underneath everything. The attacks on September eleventh,

264
00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.519
two thousand and one, hit ted hard. Like so many

265
00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:56.679
people in New York. He lost friends and colleagues that day,

266
00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:59.120
and it shook his sense of how the world was

267
00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:02.240
supposed to work. In the middle of that national grief

268
00:13:02.440 --> 00:13:05.759
and his own messy divorce, Ted started to really think

269
00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:07.759
about what he wanted to do with the rest of

270
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.360
his life. He told his sister he was ready to

271
00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:12.799
start giving back and wanted to find a way to

272
00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:15.879
do some real good. He was already in talks with

273
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.960
Bill Clinton about a joint charitable venture and was brainstorming

274
00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:24.039
ways to expand his legacy at the Lincoln Center alongside

275
00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:27.840
Wynton Marsalis. But his most sacred vow was in regards

276
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:31.200
to his children. Once the divorce papers were signed, he

277
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:34.320
would dedicate the next several years to their healing. He

278
00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:37.440
called it his five year project, a mission to take

279
00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.919
the fractured pieces of Grego and Alexa and make them

280
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:45.480
whole again. On September fifteenth, Danny Pelosi was driving Ted's

281
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:48.320
black BMW home from a bar when he got pulled

282
00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:51.679
over and arrested for drunk driving again. I don't know

283
00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:53.960
if you remember from part one, but he had had

284
00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.600
probably five drunk driving arrests. He had spent time in

285
00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:00.759
prison at least a couple of times for it. Ed meanwhile,

286
00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:04.120
was starting to feel optimistic. Over dinner with friends, he

287
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.960
said he was close to the finish line and confident

288
00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.399
he was going to get at least partial custody of

289
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.000
the kids. He still wanted Generosa in the children's lives,

290
00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:15.120
but he wanted to ensure that he could be a

291
00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.200
stable center of gravity for them. He made a final

292
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:22.159
settlement offer twenty four million dollars in cash, the townhouse

293
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.240
and split custody of the kids. Generosa's own lawyers told

294
00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.360
her to accept it. It was the best that she

295
00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:32.320
was going to get. Generosa finally relented and agreed, though

296
00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:35.120
she was still bitter about losing the beach house and

297
00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.759
the Surrey estate in England. The final details were hammered

298
00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:41.720
out in a meeting on October eleventh, two thousand and one.

299
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In a matter of days, the papers would be finalized

300
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.639
and signed. That week, Ted attended a function with Wynton

301
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.840
Marsalis and Bill Clinton and talked with Clinton about the

302
00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.879
charitable work they might do together. Later, he met an

303
00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:57.399
old friend for a drink. The friend later said that

304
00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.879
Ted seemed free, like a man who could finally s

305
00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:02.159
see the light at the end of the tunnel. Had

306
00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.000
invited his niece, Wendy and her husband to join him

307
00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:07.879
at the beach house for the upcoming weekend. Wendy was

308
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:10.279
honest with him. She told him that even if she

309
00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:13.600
had been free, she wouldn't have come. The house scared her.

310
00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.639
Ted then called Lorie to see if she could spend

311
00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.159
the weekend with him in East Hampton. He was still

312
00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.600
seeing her off and on, despite the fact that she

313
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.639
actually had a new boyfriend. She said she could stop

314
00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:27.320
by on Saturday, but couldn't stay the whole weekend.

315
00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.200
On Saturday, October twentieth, two thousand and one, Ted Amman

316
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.320
left Manhattan at midday and headed toward East Hampton in

317
00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.840
his audy station wagon. He made East Hampton at under

318
00:15:38.840 --> 00:15:41.600
two hours. He stopped at a local shop and bought

319
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.320
a sweater for eighteen hundred dollars, then swung by a

320
00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:47.159
market in the village for food and drink for Sunday breakfast,

321
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:51.159
along with a large coffee. While there, his sister Sandy called.

322
00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.759
He told her where he was, and he told her

323
00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:58.039
the good news. The divorce negotiations were over. They would

324
00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:00.679
sign the final papers in the coming week and that

325
00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:03.679
would be it. He told Sandy. He felt a tremendous

326
00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:05.960
sense of relief. He was going to take a long

327
00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:08.720
walk on the beach and clear his head. He turned

328
00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:11.279
into his driveway on Middle Lane and parked by the

329
00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:14.720
side door. It was a warm, sunny, calm afternoon. He

330
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:17.720
grabbed his stuff and let himself in through the side door,

331
00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:22.080
punching in his secret code to silence the alarm. Danny

332
00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.720
received a notification on his pager from his security company

333
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.200
that someone had entered the beach house. Ted put his

334
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.200
things away and settled in with the Financial Times and

335
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:36.200
The New York Times. That afternoon, Laurie came by. They

336
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:39.080
spent some intimate time together before she left to go

337
00:16:39.159 --> 00:16:41.919
back to her boyfriend, who still had no idea that

338
00:16:42.039 --> 00:16:45.000
she was seeing Ted. That evening, Ted went to dinner

339
00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.919
alone at his favorite local restaurant, the Farmhouse. He ordered

340
00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.840
a tuna steak and a couple of glasses of white wine. Afterward,

341
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:55.759
he walked down the beach. While he was walking, he

342
00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:58.759
called Laurie from his cell phone and got her voicemail.

343
00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.039
He left a mess saying he was at two miles

344
00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.599
Hollow Beach, which he said he'd heard was a gay beach.

345
00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:08.079
He said there were some men there who were making

346
00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:11.480
him uneasy, and that he was heading home. He walked

347
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:14.359
back to the house and closed the doors after he entered,

348
00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.440
but didn't lock them and didn't arm the security system.

349
00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:20.400
He got into bed naked as he always slept, and

350
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.039
turned out the light. Meanwhile, Danny and Gena Rosa had

351
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.640
argued on Saturday. Danny's cousin was getting married on Sunday,

352
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:31.160
but Gena Rosa refused to go. She had met Danny's

353
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.720
father once before and they hadn't gotten along. She had

354
00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.759
no interest in having another run in with him. She

355
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:40.759
told Danny to go without her. They argued about it.

356
00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:43.799
Then Danny got in his car legally for the first

357
00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.319
time in years, as his license had recently been reinstated,

358
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:50.319
and drove alone to his sister Barbara's house and sent

359
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.799
her more issues where he planned to spend the night

360
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.920
before the wedding. I am shocked that this man his

361
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:01.039
license was reinstated. Yeah, don't Lake should have driven again?

362
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:02.319
No, I agree.

363
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.200
On Sunday morning, Laurie tried reaching Ted at the beach

364
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.000
house but got no answer. She tried his cell phone

365
00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:12.079
as well. Nothing. By Sunday afternoon, the silence was bothering

366
00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:14.559
her enough that she drove over with a friend. It

367
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:17.920
parked outside fifty nine Middle Lane and sat for a

368
00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:21.559
moment looking at the house, but saw no signs of life.

369
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:24.400
Mary dialed the house again from the car. It rang

370
00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:27.599
and rang, so they drove away. Did she have the

371
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:29.920
security code? Like, why didn't she go in and check

372
00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:31.480
the house if she was worried.

373
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.440
I don't know if she had the security code or not.

374
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.680
I don't know why she didn't go in. I think

375
00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:37.720
she must have just assumed that he had left.

376
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:41.160
On Sunday morning, Danny left his sister's house and headed

377
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:45.039
to his wife's house in Manerville to celebrate his son's birthday.

378
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.519
Then he headed to his cousin's two o'clock wedding. That evening,

379
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:51.000
he drove back to the city to be with Generosa.

380
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.640
Sunday passed. Ted didn't respond to calls from Lurie, his

381
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.880
sister Sandy, or his business partner Mark Engelson. People were

382
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.039
getting worried, but still it wasn't unlike Ted to go

383
00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:04.200
off the grid for a day or two to recharge

384
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.799
and clear his mind. By Monday morning, though those closest

385
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:10.880
to Ted could tell something was wrong. First, he didn't

386
00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.359
show up for the scheduled board meeting for Jazz at

387
00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:17.200
Lincoln Center, leaving Wynton Marsalis and the other board members

388
00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.039
waiting on the chairman. Ted's assistant, Cathy, tried every number

389
00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:24.000
she had for him, with no luck. By the afternoon,

390
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:27.960
mark Ingelsson was convinced something was wrong, but rather than

391
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.759
phone the police, he decided to head to Ted's beach

392
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.519
house himself. He asked Ted's driver Milton, to go with him.

393
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.279
They took a corporate helicopter from Manhattan to East Hampton,

394
00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:41.359
landed just after five p m. And took a cab

395
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.920
to fifty nine Middle Lane. Ted's Porsche was parked in

396
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.839
the driveway. The house was completely still. Mark and Milton

397
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.680
put gloves on before going inside. They already censed, without

398
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.240
saying it out loud, that they might be walking into

399
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.559
a crime scene. They went inside, calling out for Ted.

400
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:02.440
When they went upstairs, they found Ted's naked, bloody body

401
00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:06.000
twisted into a fetal position on the carpet beside his bed.

402
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:10.680
Dark blood was spattered everywhere. At five nineteen they called

403
00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:14.000
nine one one. So Ted's Porsche was in the driveway

404
00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.480
at this point, had it not been there earlier when

405
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.680
Laurie had driven by, or did she just think he

406
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.599
I'm sure it.

407
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:21.839
Was there, but he had he had multiple cars, so

408
00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.599
I'm guessing she just thought he left in a different car.

409
00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:28.359
Okay. And the fact that they had clubs to put on,

410
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.599
and that's a little strange, isn't it.

411
00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.680
I guess a little bit. Yeah, that surprised That detail

412
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:35.880
surprised me a little bit. And I think I saw

413
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.640
an interview with Mark Engelson and he said, you know,

414
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:40.960
I didn't call the police just because I thought they

415
00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:43.640
would say I'm crazy, like, oh, you just haven't heard

416
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:45.960
from this guy in a day, like, But he just

417
00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:48.279
knew that something was wrong and just felt like I

418
00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.400
should just go check it out myself. And I guess

419
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.559
the gloves were just like being.

420
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:54.920
Careful, We'll be back after a break.

421
00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:04.759
It was the first murder in East Hampton in nearly

422
00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:07.519
twenty years. The village police took one look at the

423
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.119
scene and called in the Suffolk County Homicide Squad. It

424
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:13.960
was clear that Ted had undergone a severe beating from

425
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:17.720
a blunt force object. He had sustained somewhere between thirty

426
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:20.599
and thirty five blows to the head. He had severe

427
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.200
cuts and fractures to his hands and arms, indicating that

428
00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:27.279
he had tried to fight off his attacker. The autopsy

429
00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:31.079
would later reveal fractured ribs and punctured lungs. There was

430
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:35.039
also something curious, a series of double red burn marks

431
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:38.319
on his neck and lower back. These were later identified

432
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:42.319
as burns from a stun gun, probably used to incapacitate

433
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.799
him during the attack. Technicians moved through every room of

434
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.920
the mansion, methodically gathering and tagging evidence. They would spend

435
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.000
the better part of a week there. There were a

436
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.359
number of fingerprints found, but that was no surprise given

437
00:21:55.400 --> 00:21:59.200
the number of people friends, guests, contractors who had spent

438
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.359
time in the beach house. There was no murder weapon found.

439
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:05.680
A canvas of the neighborhood turned up nothing useful. No

440
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.799
one had seen or heard anything. The detectives knew they

441
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:11.480
needed to talk to the soon to be ex wife.

442
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.720
On Tuesday afternoon, two Suffolk County investigators showed up at

443
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.240
Generosa and Danny's townhouse. Danny met them at the door.

444
00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:22.480
They had already heard the news after a contractor friend

445
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:25.839
of Danny's had called. Danny told the detectives they couldn't

446
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:28.799
speak to Generosa. In fact, they were already in the

447
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:32.160
process of retaining a criminal attorney, though he was quick

448
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.319
to add that they had nothing to do with any

449
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.640
of this. Meanwhile, during their processing of the crime scene,

450
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:42.519
police discovered the Rapid Eye surveillance system. They contacted John Kundall,

451
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:45.279
the man who had installed the system, who agreed to

452
00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:47.680
come to the mansion and walk them through it. He

453
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:50.640
showed them where the system hard drive was located behind

454
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.279
a panel in the safe room, but the Rapid Eye

455
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:56.119
unit had been ripped out of the wall. Whoever had

456
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:58.799
been in that house knew exactly where to look and

457
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.640
exactly what to take. Looking at system logs, Kundall was

458
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:06.200
able to tell investigators that someone had remotely logged into

459
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:09.799
the Rapid Eye program at around two am on Sunday morning.

460
00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:13.640
The person watched for twenty one minutes, then remotely shut

461
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:17.039
the system off and logged off. Kundall couldn't say who

462
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.440
it was that had logged in, but he ran through

463
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.559
the list of people who had known about the system, himself,

464
00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:26.839
the workman who had helped him install it, Generosa, their lawyers,

465
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.759
and Danny Pelosi, who had actually been the one to

466
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:32.640
hire Kundall for the job in the first place. Two

467
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.599
members of Generosa's household staff also knew the butler and

468
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:39.519
the cook. Detectives had a long and growing list of

469
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:42.319
people they needed to speak with. Ted had a wide

470
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.720
circle of friends and acquaintances. There were business partners and

471
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.440
investors who may have felt wronged in some way, executives

472
00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.880
he had fired, and lawsuits that he had been involved in.

473
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.480
In addition to Danny and Generosa, there was also his

474
00:23:55.559 --> 00:23:58.880
ex wife, Randy, who had recently borrowed a million dollars

475
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:02.200
from him. Urosa and Danny quickly put out a statement

476
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:06.079
via their lawyer denying any involvement in the murder. Generosa

477
00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:08.799
had been at her townhouse in Manhattan all night, while

478
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.519
Danny had spent the night at his sister's place in

479
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.079
Center Moorshes. Investigators would never be able to say with

480
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:19.400
exact certainty what happened inside fifty nine Middle Lane that night,

481
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:22.759
but the physical evidence allowed them to reconstruct what they

482
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.240
believed had taken place. It began at two in the morning.

483
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:29.640
Someone opened a laptop and logged into the Rapid Eye

484
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.440
surveillance system Remotely. They watched for twenty one minutes until

485
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.160
they were satisfied that the house was quiet and that

486
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.680
Ted was home alone sleeping. Some time after that, a

487
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:43.680
man or possibly two men entered fifty nine Middle Lane.

488
00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:46.240
He or they didn't need to break in because the

489
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:50.480
doors were unlocked and the security system unarmed. The attackers

490
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.079
had a stun gun and some type of long, heavy

491
00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:56.480
metal object. Ted would have never heard them coming. The

492
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.960
attacks started with the jab of a stun gun to

493
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.079
Ted's neck, jerking him awake but at the same time

494
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:06.160
incapacitating him. Still, he was able to fight back, getting

495
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.880
up and deflecting blows from the heavy object. He scrambled

496
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.519
out of bed and was jolted with the stun gun again,

497
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:15.160
this time in the back. Ted tried to get out

498
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.279
of the room and tried to fight back, but it

499
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:20.240
was too much. The blows kept coming, with more than

500
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:23.400
thirty impacts to his head. At some point he could

501
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:26.799
no longer fight back. After being sure Ted was dead,

502
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:29.240
the killer went to the safe room and ripped the

503
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:31.880
Rapid Eye hard drive out of the wall, just to

504
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.680
be sure that the killing hadn't been captured on video.

505
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:38.599
The killer or killers wrapped up everything, the weapons, the

506
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:42.480
Rapid Eye system any other incriminating evidence in a tarp

507
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:45.359
that they had left downstairs and left through the beach

508
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.039
House's French doors, leaving a trail of blood drops across

509
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:53.960
the floor. Soon after Ted's murder, Danny Pelosi called his brother, Jim,

510
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:56.960
who was a cop with the New York City Police Department.

511
00:25:57.319 --> 00:25:59.519
He had a problem. He said he had bought a

512
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:03.240
taser while ago for his wife's protection. Knowing that a

513
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:05.599
stun gun had been used in the attack on Ted,

514
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.279
he wanted to get rid of it. Jim told him

515
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:10.279
he would take care of it by placing it in

516
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:14.200
a drop box at the police station. Dropboxes existed so

517
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.640
that people could surrender illegal weapons anonymously, no questions asked.

518
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.279
Jim picked up the taser from Danny's wife, Tammy.

519
00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:24.640
So he is still married to Tammy.

520
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:26.640
He is still married to Tammy at this point.

521
00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:28.279
Although he's living with Generosa.

522
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:32.640
Correct. I think Tammy probably knew about Generosa because Danny

523
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:35.839
was suddenly bringing money home and fixing up their own house.

524
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:38.359
I'm not sure what the state of their marriage was,

525
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:39.519
but it's so.

526
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:41.680
Tammy was like, well, as long as you're bringing money in,

527
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:43.279
I don't care where it's coming from or.

528
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:47.599
Maybe she was just delaying the inevitable divorce. A week

529
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:51.279
after Ted's death, Generosa held a private ceremony for him.

530
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:54.759
It was a small gathering which none of Ted's friends attended.

531
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:57.839
No one wanted to be in the same room as Generosa.

532
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.559
The real memorial came later Lincoln Center, the place that

533
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:04.720
Ted had poured his energy and money into. It was

534
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:07.599
packed with the people who had actually known and loved him.

535
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.559
Generosa had not attended by request of Ted's sister, Sandy.

536
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.680
Wynton Marsalis took the stage with his musicians and played

537
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:19.240
New Orleans funeral music, one of the many jazz traditions

538
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:21.759
that Ted had loved. It was the kind of send

539
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:25.359
off that he deserved. Generosa, meanwhile, was gearing up to

540
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.559
fight for what she believed was hers. She hired a

541
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:32.359
lawyer and began preparing to challenge Ted's will. She didn't

542
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.599
know what was in the will, but she assumed that

543
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.680
Ted had made changes to cut her out of it

544
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:39.960
at some point since she had filed for divorce. She

545
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:43.400
was stunned to discover that Ted actually hadn't gotten around

546
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:47.119
to changing his will. She was still the primary beneficiary

547
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:50.960
and the co executor along with J. P. Morgan Chase Bank.

548
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:54.400
She would get everything, including all the houses that meant

549
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:57.359
so much to her, other than money from a trust

550
00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.400
that was set aside for the twins. The total value

551
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.240
of Ted's estate was eventually determined to be ninety seven million,

552
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:07.720
four hundred twenty four thousand, six hundred twenty eight dollars

553
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:11.920
and three cents. But before Generosa could get her hands

554
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:16.599
on Ted's money, JP Morgan Chase intervened in November, acting

555
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:19.599
in its role as co executor. The bank moved to

556
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.839
freeze the estate. They argued that nothing should be settled

557
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:26.960
until the murder investigation reached its conclusion. The courts agreed,

558
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.720
although they did grant Generosa a monthly allowance of fifty

559
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:31.839
thousand dollars.

560
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:35.160
How is she supposed to live on fifty thousand dollars

561
00:28:35.240 --> 00:28:35.519
a month.

562
00:28:35.559 --> 00:28:36.240
It's going to be rough.

563
00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:40.880
It's going to be rough, Oh boy, poor Generosa. Just kidding. Meanwhile,

564
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:45.240
the murder of Ted Ammon became a massive sensational story

565
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.359
that dominated the New York News. It was made to

566
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:50.720
order for the media, with a brutal murder of a

567
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:55.359
multi millionaire a luxurious Hampton's mansion a bitter divorce and

568
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:59.480
the wife's loud, brash, blue collar lover. The press hounded

569
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:03.920
Danny and Generosa relentlessly. They published photos of Danny driving

570
00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:08.319
the dead man's car and labeled Generosa as the merry widow.

571
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.319
On the evening of New Year's Day two thousand and two,

572
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.440
Danny Pelosi was holding court at a bar on the

573
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.200
Upper East Side, buying rounds for everyone. At some point

574
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.000
the evening took a turn. Danny got into a fight

575
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:25.000
with another patron and someone noticed him working his charms

576
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:28.119
on the waitress. The newspapers were there to see it all.

577
00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:32.680
Danny and Generosa were undeterred by all the publicity. Less

578
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:35.599
than three months after Ted's murder, they decided it was

579
00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:38.759
time to get married. But first Danny needed a divorce

580
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:43.200
from his first wife, Tammy. Generosa's lawyers handled the paperwork

581
00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:46.599
and the divorce was done in mid January. The next day,

582
00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:50.960
Danny and Generosa tied the knot in a short civil ceremony.

583
00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.519
It's a little surprising that she didn't want like a big,

584
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:57.000
showy wedding. Right then they jetted off to England and

585
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.960
settled into Generosa's country estate with a twin. When the

586
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:03.880
press caught wind of the nuptials, they had a field day,

587
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:08.920
labeling them as the Hampton's murder mystery newlyweds. The honeymoon

588
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.440
didn't last long. In February, Danny had to return to

589
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.680
the United States for a court appearance on his latest

590
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:20.359
DWY charge. The judge, displeased with Danny's record of missed

591
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:25.160
probation appointments, took Danny's passport. Danny wasn't going back to England,

592
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:28.480
so Generosa packed up the twins and came home. His

593
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:31.359
poor twins have been through so much at this point totally.

594
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:36.279
The police investigation uncovered Danny's taser purchase. In fact, they

595
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:38.880
found that he had purchased at least two stun guns

596
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.920
at different times. At one point, he had brought one

597
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.559
to the townhouse renovation project. Anxious to try it out.

598
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.920
He asked if any of his workers wanted to be

599
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.079
the guinea pig. When no one volunteered, he offered one

600
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:54.599
hundred dollars and one of his burly crew members stepped up.

601
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:57.319
Danny pressed the barrel up to the man's arm and

602
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.960
pulled the trigger. He yelped and jumped back, saying his

603
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.279
entire arm had gone numb. Danny loved it.

604
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:06.240
How much would it take for you to be a

605
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:07.720
guinea pig for a stun gun?

606
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.640
I am curious. Five hundred bucks, five hundred Yeah, I'd

607
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:14.480
probably do it for that, Okay. If Jim Pelosi learned

608
00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:16.720
more about the investigation and the fact that a stun

609
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:19.440
gun had been used in Ted's killing, he started to

610
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.519
freak out. He believed his brother's claim of innocence, but

611
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.880
the stun gun detail was eating at him. Now Jim

612
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:28.720
realized he could be an accessory and he had helped

613
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:31.559
Danny get rid of the taser. This could destroy his

614
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:34.359
career that he'd worked so hard to build. He was

615
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:37.440
so close to making detective, and now he might lose

616
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:41.079
his badge entirely. On March thirtieth, two thousand and two,

617
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:44.720
Jim came home exhausted after a sixteen hour shift in

618
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.079
the bathroom that evening, he had a seizure and lost consciousness,

619
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:51.200
falling to the floor. When his wife found him later,

620
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:54.759
he was gone dead at only thirty six years old.

621
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:57.039
That's really sad. Do you think just the stress of

622
00:31:57.079 --> 00:31:57.759
the situation.

623
00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:00.240
I don't know if it was stress or it was

624
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:03.599
just something that was going to happen eventually. Anyway, it sounds.

625
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:07.519
Like Jim Pelosi's death triggered an immediate investigation of its own.

626
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:10.599
The brother of the prime suspect in a high profile

627
00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:14.480
murder case, himself the subject of an internal affairs inquiry,

628
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:18.039
had suddenly dropped dead. The timing was difficult to ignore.

629
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:21.599
It took time, but the autopsy results were eventually clear.

630
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:26.480
Jim had died of a massive catastrophic epileptic event, with

631
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:31.440
no warning and no known cause. Toxicology found nothing, no poison,

632
00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:35.319
no drugs. His heart had simply stopped. It was as

633
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.880
far as anyone could determine a coincidence. Eventually, Generosa's lawyers

634
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.119
got a judge to overrule the earlier decision to freeze

635
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:48.160
Ted's assets. The money started to flow again. Additionally, generosasued

636
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.759
to collect on Ted's business life insurance policy and walked

637
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:56.559
away with a fifteen million dollars settlement. Wow. She began

638
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:59.160
selling off his real estate holdings to cover the bills

639
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.599
that had been piling up. She and Danny bought a

640
00:33:01.640 --> 00:33:05.279
modest home in Center or Moreshes for seven hundred thousand

641
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.440
dollars and began renovating it. They rolled the twins in

642
00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:11.920
public school, and they took to it immediately. They loved

643
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:14.920
their new school, their new friends, and they loved Danny.

644
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:18.160
Danny resumed taking his friends out and spending the money

645
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:22.559
that Ted had earned hundreds of thousands of dollars across restaurants, bars,

646
00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:26.240
and casino tables. The press was still circling, but more

647
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:28.519
and more it looked like they had gotten away with it.

648
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.759
In June two thousand and two, Jennerosa came down with

649
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:35.359
what seemed like the flu Her lungs began filling with fluid,

650
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:39.359
and she was having trouble breathing. She grew dizzy and collapsed,

651
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:42.440
and Danny finally took her to the doctor, who suspected

652
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.599
pneumonia and ordered X rays. When the nurse looked at

653
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.640
the films, the news was written across them, plainly shadows

654
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:53.319
throughout the breast tissue, the lungs, the kidneys. The cancer

655
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:56.000
had been growing quietly for a long time. It had

656
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.559
already spread to her lymphatic system and was moving toward

657
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:02.279
her brain, the same path that had taken with her

658
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:05.720
mother Babe. Chemo therapy might buy her a few years,

659
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:09.320
but nothing could save her. Gena Rosa resisted treatment, but

660
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:13.440
eventually agreed to go to chemotherapy. She updated her will,

661
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:18.840
leaving everything to Danny. Everything. Yep, her children weren't taking

662
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:20.760
care of.

663
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.559
The trust Yeah, the trust fund was still going to

664
00:34:21.559 --> 00:34:22.159
be there for them.

665
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:26.320
The illness remade their life together. Gena Rosa lost weight steadily,

666
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.480
her face growing hollow, her eyes sunken. She looked in

667
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.039
the mirror and saw her mother looking back. When the

668
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.760
pain medications stopped being enough, she started taking more of it,

669
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:39.039
and then started drinking. On top of that. The twins

670
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:41.239
went to state with a friend of Danny's, a married

671
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:43.920
man with two kids of his own. Danny paid him

672
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.119
to take them in weekends at first, then longer stretches

673
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.119
than weeks at a time. Gena Rosa didn't want to

674
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:52.920
have her kids see her like this. What started as

675
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.239
an arrangement became something else. The friend and his wife

676
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:59.000
found that they liked having four children in the house,

677
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:03.000
and the twins were happy there. Danny stayed by Generosa's side,

678
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:05.719
rubbing her feet and getting her whatever she needed. He

679
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.800
sat with her for hours every day, playing scrabble across

680
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:12.280
the table. It irritated Generosa to know when that she

681
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:16.480
kept losing. She had a college education. Danny PELUSI had

682
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:20.039
a high school dropout's vocabulary and a criminal record, and

683
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:23.079
he beat her more often than not. You're a fucking

684
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:27.079
ignorant high school dropout, she would tell him. Danny just laughed.

685
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.079
I went to what's a matter you? He'd say. She

686
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:33.880
laughed too. Danny could always make her laugh. So I

687
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.039
hate that you're trying to make me feel sympathy for

688
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:41.000
Generosa here, I know. Despite Generosa's declining condition, Danny's legal

689
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:44.559
troubles did not abate. His latest d WY case was

690
00:35:44.599 --> 00:35:48.119
moving forward and his lawyers were preparing his defense against

691
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:51.519
a murder charge that everyone could feel coming. Danny had

692
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:54.760
also quietly arranged legal representation for a number of his

693
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:58.320
friends and family members, which was an effective strategy. With

694
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.400
lawyers in place, no one would talking. The detectives kept circling,

695
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:06.119
but they couldn't get traction. Jannie ended up pleeing guilty

696
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:08.719
to the d WI and was sentenced to four months

697
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:11.440
in prison. The day to day running of the house

698
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:16.159
and caring for Generosa fell to kay Maine, Generosa's personal assistant,

699
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.639
and nanny to the twins. Generosa had originally hired Kay

700
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:22.079
when they were in England. The Youo grew close, and

701
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.199
Generosa brought Kay back to the US with her. With

702
00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:28.119
Danny and jail, Kay tightened her grip on the household.

703
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:31.639
She took over the twins discipline. Bad grades were punished,

704
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:35.639
and chores were assigned. The children despised Kay. They had

705
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.679
lost their father, their mother was slipping away, and now

706
00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.639
a woman they hadn't chosen was running their lives with

707
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:45.199
a firm hand. Alexa and Gregor were happier with the

708
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:47.800
family of Danny's friend, and they spent more and more

709
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.000
time there, but they missed their mother and resented what

710
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:54.079
was happening around her. As time went on, the tension

711
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:57.440
between Danny and Kay was palpable. One day, Danny came

712
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:00.559
home and found Generosa unconscious enough on a pin and

713
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:03.360
alcohol in her system. The doctor said to have killed

714
00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:07.159
two people. Danny forced her to vomit, and she survived.

715
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.000
He turned on Kay, who was supposed to be watching her,

716
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:12.639
to make sure this type of thing didn't happen. According

717
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:16.679
to Danny, Kay was unsympathetic and emotionless, telling him it's

718
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.840
time for her to go. Joanne the housekeeper was on

719
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:23.079
Danny's side. She also didn't like how Kay was taking

720
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:26.519
control over the household, and she didn't trust her. One day,

721
00:37:26.599 --> 00:37:28.880
Kay pulled her aside and said that Danny told her

722
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:32.400
he killed Ted. Joanne didn't believe her. She thought Kay

723
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:35.360
was trying to set him up. Meanwhile, gen Rosa was

724
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:39.559
increasingly unhappy with Danny's spending. At one point, he took

725
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.000
twelve friends to Las Vegas, living like kings for a week.

726
00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:46.840
Gena Rosa updated her will, reducing Danny's share by two

727
00:37:46.920 --> 00:37:50.159
point six million dollars, the amount she calculated that he

728
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:53.880
had burned through his gambling and carousing. So how much

729
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:56.159
time had passed and he spent that much money.

730
00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:58.000
I don't think it was a lot of time. I

731
00:37:58.000 --> 00:37:59.880
think you can spend a lot of money the week

732
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:02.440
in Vegas with ten guys living it up.

733
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:05.760
You know that's insane it is. Kay told Generosa that

734
00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:09.400
Danny was sleeping with a barmaid. Danny vehemently denied it,

735
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:11.719
but it was clear that Generosa was starting to trust

736
00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:14.280
Kay while she was losing trust in Danny. At the

737
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:18.519
same time, Gena Rosa updated her will again, this time

738
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:22.199
leaving custody of the twins to Kay. Around the same time,

739
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:25.480
Generosa decided she wanted to move back into the Easthampton

740
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:28.400
Beach House. It was her finest achievement and it was

741
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.880
there she wanted to spend her final days, weeks, or months,

742
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:35.519
whatever time she had left. The twins were horrified they

743
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:37.480
would have to live on the house where their father

744
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:40.000
had been beaten to death. They would lose their friends,

745
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:42.960
their school, their routines, and they would be left with Ka.

746
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:46.480
They begged to stay and Center Maurices, with Danny and

747
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:49.639
the life they had built there, but Genna Rosa didn't waiver.

748
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:53.760
She slowly grew more erratic and illusional, at times mistaking

749
00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:56.679
Danny for Ted. At one point she attacked him with

750
00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:01.519
a large ceramic dish, screaming, Ted, you fucking sk once again.

751
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:04.440
These poor twins have been through so much, and it

752
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:06.800
just seems like they were so adaptable too. Like when

753
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.800
they moved to Center Mauritius, they got enrolled in public school,

754
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:11.480
which I think is probably the first time they had

755
00:39:11.480 --> 00:39:13.199
never been in public school in their life, and it

756
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:15.760
sounds like they loved it, like they were dead friends

757
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.400
and they got along great, and ye had just so

758
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:19.960
much that they had to go through.

759
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:21.920
Well, it was said that there was no one else

760
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:25.360
that could take care of them other than k Yeah,

761
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:27.440
was there any other? Well, like what about Sandy?

762
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:31.639
So Generosa intentionally kept them away from Sandy. So that's

763
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:35.320
the problem. She wanted to separate them completely from Ted's family.

764
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:37.320
We'll be back after a break.

765
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:48.000
While Danny was locked up on his DWI charge, starting

766
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.800
in February two thousand and three, fifteen months after Ted's murder,

767
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.719
homicide detectives decided it was the perfect time to squeeze

768
00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:59.719
everyone around him in an attempt to reinvigorate the investigation.

769
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:03.679
They arrested his ex wife, Tammy Pelosi, on a charge

770
00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:07.239
of felony theft of services. This was from an incident

771
00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:10.360
years earlier when they were broke, in which Danny had

772
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.480
illegally diverted electrical power to their home. The detectives ran

773
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:17.719
the standard good cop, bad cop playbook, trying to get

774
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:20.480
her to spill what she knew about Ted's murder in

775
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:23.719
exchange for a deal. She swore that she knew nothing.

776
00:40:24.159 --> 00:40:27.039
The next day, they picked up Danny's friend, Chris Perino.

777
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.079
They told him Danny had been talking in jail that

778
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:33.039
he had confessed to the killing. It wasn't true, but

779
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:36.599
the Supreme Court had long since ruled that detectives could

780
00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:41.239
lie to murder suspects. Chris denied everything and was released.

781
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:46.400
Others followed, Danny's friends, a cousin. Everyone denied their involvement

782
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:51.079
and denied any knowledge of Danny's involvement. Generos's lawyer filed

783
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:54.239
an eight million dollar federal lawsuit on behalf of Tammy

784
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:58.760
and the others for wrongful arrest, illegal questioning, and intimidation,

785
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.559
but the lawsuit didn't slow the investigation down. They were

786
00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:06.920
determined to close this case. In June, when Danny was released,

787
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.320
police officers were waiting for him outside the prison. They

788
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:13.679
arrested him again, this time for the same felony theft

789
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.880
of electricity charge that they had slapped on his ex wife.

790
00:41:17.239 --> 00:41:19.679
They were doing everything they could to get Danny to

791
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:23.400
break He was released on bail and hurried back to Generosa.

792
00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:27.079
He barely recognized her. She had lost more weight, was

793
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:30.599
heavily medicated, and still drinking on top of her meds

794
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:33.480
to dull her pain. She told him that while she

795
00:41:33.559 --> 00:41:35.840
still loved him, she didn't want him staying at the

796
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:39.559
Easthampton Beach House with her. That same month, a special

797
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:42.679
grand jury was sworn in and began hearing witnesses and

798
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.159
evidence in the murder of Ted Ammon. Prosecutors went to

799
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:50.360
Generosa directly and offered her immunity from prosecution in exchange

800
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:53.679
for her testimony. She was dying, there was no reason

801
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:56.360
to go after her anymore, and they thought she might

802
00:41:56.400 --> 00:42:00.239
be ready to unburden a guilty conscience, but still she

803
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:03.280
refused to talk. At this point, I imagined the detectives

804
00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:06.159
were getting very frustrated because they really had no physical

805
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:10.920
evidence pointing to anyone. Nobody was talking, Nobody was telling

806
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:14.039
them that Danny had said this or that. Really they

807
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:15.519
had next to nothing.

808
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:18.320
Yeah, well, I had thought that Danny had a pretty

809
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:20.840
good alibi too, but you said.

810
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.639
He had an alibi. But we will talk about where

811
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:26.280
there might be some holes in that alibi. In July,

812
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:30.400
Generosa changed her will once again. This time in addition

813
00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:33.159
to custody of the children, Kay was to receive a

814
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:36.320
million dollars and the right to live in the Easthampton

815
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:39.199
mansion for the rest of her life. The will didn't

816
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:42.840
mention Danny at all. He was cut out completely as

817
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:45.760
part of a post nuptial agreement, though she did give

818
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.239
Danny two million dollars for a legal defense fund, which

819
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:51.320
it was looking more and more like he would need.

820
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:54.880
Ted's sister, Sandy, had been trying to reach the twins

821
00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.960
for two years. She had sent birthday presents for their

822
00:42:57.960 --> 00:43:02.239
twelfth and thirteenth birthdays, Christmas gifts, and letters. All of

823
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:05.360
it had either been returned or thrown away by Generosa.

824
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.440
Alexa and Grego had grown up believing that their Aunt

825
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.039
Sandy and Uncle Bob simply didn't care about them. When

826
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:14.840
Sandy heard that Generosa was dying and had named a

827
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:18.480
nanny as the children's permanent guardian, she hired one of

828
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:21.199
the best known family law attorneys in New York and

829
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:25.400
filed for custody. The filing was extensive. It included a

830
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:29.519
psychological evaluation of Generosa that had been conducted years earlier,

831
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:33.440
which had concluded that she suffered from paranoia and an

832
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:37.519
intense hatred of Ted, which manifested in her sense of entitlement,

833
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:42.360
her impulsiveness, her demands of absolute loyalty, and her failure

834
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:46.559
of empathy. Sandy's filing made one thing explicit. She and

835
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:49.559
Bob were not after Ted's money, They just wanted to

836
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:53.360
raise his children. Sandy's lawyers asked a judge to seize

837
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:56.719
the twins' passports because Kay was British and they wanted

838
00:43:56.719 --> 00:44:00.320
to eliminate the possibility of Kay taking them overseas. The

839
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:03.639
judge agreed. Although she knew she didn't have long to live,

840
00:44:03.880 --> 00:44:07.679
Generosa was determined to fight the custody motion. She even

841
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.920
established a foundation that would spend whatever was needed to

842
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:14.000
prevent Sandy and Bob from gaining custody of the children,

843
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:18.079
even after she was gone. In August, Generosa took too

844
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:21.039
many pills and had a stroke. Kay didn't call nine

845
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:25.320
one one. Instead, she called Generosa's lawyer, a deliberate decision

846
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:29.079
meant to avoid publicity. Kay brought Alexa and Grego to

847
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:32.119
their mother's bedside and told them to say goodbye. It

848
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:34.760
was probably the last time they would see her. Then,

849
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:37.800
Kay and Generosa's attorney carried her out to a car

850
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.400
and drove her to a hospital in Manhattan. Generosa Amman

851
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:45.159
died on Friday evening, August twenty second, two thousand and three.

852
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:48.800
She was forty seven years old. When Danny heard the news,

853
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:52.199
he was angry. He believed that Kay and the lawyers

854
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:56.480
had hastened Generosa's death, but he couldn't prove anything. Her

855
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:59.599
remains were cremated and Danny picked up her ashes from

856
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:02.719
the funeral home. He took them to the Stanhope Hotel.

857
00:45:03.199 --> 00:45:05.199
It was where they had spent their time together in

858
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:08.119
the early days when things were good. He carried the

859
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:10.760
box of ashes into the stand Hope and set them

860
00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:13.280
on the hotel bar. He ordered a bud light for

861
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:16.559
himself and the Cosmopolitan in a Rocks class, the way

862
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:19.800
that Generosa had liked it. He lit two cigarettes, even

863
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.639
though that wasn't allowed, and raised his bottle in a

864
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:25.800
toast to his wife. Someone tipped off the press, who

865
00:45:25.960 --> 00:45:29.000
arrived just in time to get the shot. The headline

866
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.360
the next day read Pelosi toasts ashes of wife in

867
00:45:32.480 --> 00:45:36.480
bar where they met. Generosa's lawyers accused Danny of stealing

868
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:39.320
the ashes. They were supposed to go to k they said.

869
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:42.480
Her attorney, Michael Dowd, looked at the photograph in the

870
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:46.079
paper and offered his assessment to the waiting press. That

871
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:48.800
picture says it all. It's Danny with the two things

872
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:52.440
he loves most in the world. Himself an alcohol Danny

873
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:55.679
spent the night in the presidential suite with Generosa's ashes,

874
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:58.599
and then returned them in the morning. Within weeks of

875
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:02.599
Generosa's death, knew lawsuits were being filed faster than anyone

876
00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:06.480
could track them. Danny sued to overturn the post nuptial agreement,

877
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.599
arguing that Generosa had not been of sound mind when

878
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:13.039
she signed it. JP Morgan Chase filed a wrongful death

879
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:17.559
lawsuit against Danny in connection with Ted's murder. Generosa's estate,

880
00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:21.079
valued at thirty five million dollars, was being carved up

881
00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:24.159
by litigation before anyone had seen a dollar of it.

882
00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:28.199
Lawyers were hiring lawyers. It looked increasingly possible that the

883
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:31.760
fortune that Ted Ammon had spent thirty years building would

884
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.079
be consumed entirely by legal fees, leaving nothing for anyone.

885
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:39.079
So you can see how Ted's fortune is just dwindling.

886
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:39.280
Here.

887
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:42.239
When he died, his fortune was worth ninety seven million,

888
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:46.159
and now Generosa, who inherited almost everything, her estate was

889
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:49.039
worth thirty five million. It's just, you know, all these

890
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:52.840
lawyers involved, and well, not to mention Danny outspending millions

891
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.880
of dollars, it's just it's kind of sad. Ye, the

892
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:58.639
twins remained at the center of it all. A court

893
00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:01.920
confirmed Kay as their guardian. Grego was sent to a

894
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:05.360
private boarding school. Alexa stayed in East Hampton with Ka,

895
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:09.000
where she was enrolled in an exclusive local private school.

896
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:12.360
Danny chose not to seek custody. He knew he had

897
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:16.199
no chance and he had bigger problems coming. Alexa and

898
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:18.960
Grego wrote a letter to the judge telling him they

899
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:21.559
did not want to live with Kay Maine and didn't

900
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:24.400
want to stay in that house. A hearing was scheduled

901
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:27.559
to determine whether Ka would keep them or whether Ted's

902
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:31.039
sister Sandy and her husband Bob would become their guardians.

903
00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.400
So did Kay want the children or did she just

904
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.280
want to live out Generosa's wishes.

905
00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:39.639
That's a really good question. I don't really know what

906
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:42.639
Kay's motivation was here. I get the sense it was

907
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:44.800
more of the latter, that she just wanted to follow

908
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:46.159
what Generosa wanted.

909
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:50.199
So the balance of Generosa's estate that went to Ka.

910
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:53.280
No, Kay got a million dollars and she got the

911
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:56.239
right to live in the Stampton House, but everything else

912
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:57.239
went to the kids.

913
00:47:57.519 --> 00:47:59.639
Okay, But then there was this fune to set aside

914
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:00.800
for le leg defense?

915
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:03.719
The legal defense was just she had given two million

916
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:05.119
dollars to Danny, so it wasn't it.

917
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:07.239
You had said something about there was a fund set

918
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:08.440
aside for custody.

919
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:11.440
Oh to fight, to fight Sandy from getting custody. Yeah.

920
00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:13.519
I don't really know the details of that, but yes.

921
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:16.440
Two thousand and four arrived and the grand jury was

922
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:20.199
still working. Two plus years after tad Amman's murder. There

923
00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:24.239
had been no indictments, no arrests, and no resolution. The

924
00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:28.920
investigation ground on quietly while Danny Pelosi lived his life.

925
00:48:29.000 --> 00:48:32.840
He found a new girlfriend, Jennifer zol Nowski. They went

926
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:36.800
to Hawaii, where Danny proposed and Jennifer became pregnant, and

927
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:40.239
a tourist cruise. During the trip, Danny got into an

928
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:44.599
altercation with the first mate and was arrested for assault.

929
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:49.320
It was, for Danny a fairly routine vacation. March twenty second,

930
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:53.199
two thousand and four, Genneros's birthday, the Grand Jury finally

931
00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:57.039
wrapped up their work and handed down an indictment. Danny

932
00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:00.719
Pelosi was charged with murder in the second to and

933
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:05.679
he surrendered the main pillars of the prosecution's case were straightforward.

934
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:09.679
Danny had purchased at least two stun guns before the murder.

935
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.079
The probe marks on Ted's body matched the model of

936
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.920
the one that Danny had bought. Danny had been one

937
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.559
of a very small number of people who knew about

938
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:21.880
their rapid eye surveillance system and where it was hidden

939
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:25.119
in the house, and someone had logged into that system

940
00:49:25.159 --> 00:49:27.079
at two in the morning on the night of the murder,

941
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:30.320
watched the darkened house for twenty one minutes, and then

942
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:34.360
shut it down remotely, and the murderer had known exactly

943
00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:38.760
where the system's hard drive was hidden. Danny faced twenty

944
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:42.639
five years to life if convicted. The judge to night bail.

945
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:46.119
Given the severity of the charge, and given Danny Pelosi's

946
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:49.559
long and creative history with a criminal justice system, no

947
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:53.320
one was surprised. In April two thousand and four, Alexa

948
00:49:53.360 --> 00:49:55.760
and Greg made a trip to visit their aunt Sandy

949
00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:00.039
and uncle Bob, accompanied by a court appointed psychologist. I

950
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:02.800
had grown up believing that Sandy didn't care about them,

951
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:05.679
but what they found was different. They loved it there.

952
00:50:06.039 --> 00:50:08.920
They decided that's where they wanted to live, with one

953
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:11.960
condition they wanted to be able to be in contact

954
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:15.320
with Danny and his family. Sandy and Bob said yes

955
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:18.679
with supervision. Now they just had to get the courts

956
00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:22.639
to agree. Danny's murder trial began in October two thousand

957
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:26.079
and four, three years after Ted's murder. Shortly before the

958
00:50:26.119 --> 00:50:29.960
trial began, the prosecutor dropped a bombshell. They had two

959
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:34.719
jailhouse informants who would testify that Danny admitted to killing Ted,

960
00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.400
not only that he had been trying to arrange assaults

961
00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:41.519
on some of the witnesses, was plotting to influence a

962
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:45.760
potential juror, and had even made threats against the prosecutor's children.

963
00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:51.039
New charges of attempted jury tampering, witness intimidation, attempted assault,

964
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:57.119
criminal solicitation, and conspiracy were added, carrying an additional fifteen years.

965
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:03.039
Danny vehemently denied these new allegations. Prosecution had no order weapon,

966
00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:06.880
no eyewitnesses, and no forensic evidence linking Danny to the crime.

967
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:09.599
The main thing they had was his knowledge of their

968
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:11.960
surveillance system at the house, and they had him on

969
00:51:12.039 --> 00:51:15.039
tape telling a fellow inmate that he had killed Ted

970
00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:17.679
with a baseball bat. He told the inmate that he

971
00:51:17.719 --> 00:51:20.679
had been trying to break every bone in Ted's body.

972
00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:24.039
Do his injuries did they check out with that? Did

973
00:51:24.079 --> 00:51:26.079
they seem like they were caused by a baseball bat?

974
00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:28.079
I think all they were able to ascertain was that

975
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:30.760
he was beaten with some blunt forest object, and he

976
00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:33.320
had been hit so many times, so I'm guessing it

977
00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:35.000
was consistent with a baseball bat.

978
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:36.679
But I don't think he said like up to thirty

979
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:40.239
five times he was in the prosecution also had witnesses

980
00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:43.679
who testified about things Danny had said to them, including

981
00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:47.039
Danny's own father, Bob Pelosi. He told the jury about

982
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:49.800
the wedding. On that Sunday, the day before Ted's body

983
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:52.760
had been found, Danny had pulled him aside and asked

984
00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:56.039
him something that had stayed with him, since if someone

985
00:51:56.079 --> 00:51:58.599
wanted to get rid of something, what would you do?

986
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:01.199
Bob said he had and asked what his son meant

987
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:04.119
by that he hadn't wanted to know. A friend of

988
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:07.480
Danny's testified that Danny had told her what happened that night.

989
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:11.159
That Gena Rosa had been present during the murder, along

990
00:52:11.199 --> 00:52:14.320
with Chris Pirino and Danny's nephew who had driven the

991
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:18.400
getaway car. Danny's sister, who was his alibi, testified that

992
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:21.480
Danny had spent the night at her house that Saturday evening,

993
00:52:21.599 --> 00:52:23.760
but he wasn't there the whole night. She said that

994
00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:26.760
Danny and his friend Chris had shown up Saturday night,

995
00:52:26.960 --> 00:52:30.159
picked up a bag from the house's attic, then took off.

996
00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:34.400
Danny didn't return until hours later, close to sunrise. The

997
00:52:34.480 --> 00:52:37.559
defense tried to convince the jury that Ted was killed

998
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:41.079
by some unknown gay men. Ted had called his girlfriend

999
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:43.920
Laurie that Saturday evening, leaving a message that he was

1000
00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:46.280
walking on a gay beach and that some men were

1001
00:52:46.280 --> 00:52:50.119
making him feel uncomfortable. The defense tried to plant the

1002
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:52.719
sea that maybe Ted had a tryst with a man

1003
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:54.440
that he met on the beach, and that a couple

1004
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:56.840
of the guys followed Ted back to the beach house

1005
00:52:56.960 --> 00:52:59.960
and killed him that night. That didn't explain the surveyor

1006
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:02.880
system being ripped out, but their main goal was just

1007
00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:06.000
a plant sum doubt. As the defense was rabbing up

1008
00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:10.000
their case, Danny announced he wanted to testify. His lawyers

1009
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:12.719
told him not to, but he took the stand anyway,

1010
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:16.679
convinced he could charm the jury. It did not go well.

1011
00:53:17.079 --> 00:53:21.559
On the stand, Danny contradicted himself repeatedly. He acknowledged that

1012
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:23.840
he had bought a stun gun and that he enjoyed

1013
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:27.159
using it on co workers. The prosecutor asked him what

1014
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:30.320
he liked about it. Danny chuckled, I like the way

1015
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:34.199
they jumped and reacted and said, you fucking asshole. The

1016
00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:37.639
jurors did not find it nearly as amusing as Danny

1017
00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:41.320
seemed to. He testified that Generosa had asked him one

1018
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:43.880
time whether he knew anyone who would kill her husband

1019
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:46.639
or whether he would do it himself. He said that

1020
00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:49.599
he had turned her down both times. He seemed to

1021
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.000
believe that this would win him points with the jury,

1022
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:55.440
but it didn't. They found Danny Pelosi guilty of murder

1023
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:59.599
and this second degree. Afterward, the prosecutor told reporters that

1024
00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:03.639
Dan had been her best witness. His decision to take

1025
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:07.199
the stand had been catastrophic, but it hadn't been surprising.

1026
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:10.679
Danny Pelosi had never been able to stop himself from talking.

1027
00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:13.360
It was his own mouth in the end that had

1028
00:54:13.400 --> 00:54:16.800
done him in. On January twenty fifth, two thousand and five,

1029
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:20.239
Danny stood handcuffed before a Long Island judge as the

1030
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:23.480
people whose lives he had destroyed got their chance to speak.

1031
00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:26.760
The twins were fourteen years old. They had lost their

1032
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:30.159
father to a murder, their mother to cancer, their childhood

1033
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:33.039
to lawyers, in courtrooms and houses they never wanted to

1034
00:54:33.079 --> 00:54:36.119
live in. Now they stood fifteen feet from a man

1035
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:40.440
who they loved but now despised. Greg went first. He

1036
00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:42.960
was sobbing as he spoke, but his voice didn't waiver.

1037
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:45.880
I hope you suffer and go through just as much

1038
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:48.519
as my sister and I have. I just hope God

1039
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:51.559
can forgive you, because I certainly won't. Then it was

1040
00:54:51.599 --> 00:54:54.840
Alexa's turn. Mister Pelosi might have had a nice time

1041
00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:57.360
for the past couple of years spending my parents' money,

1042
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:59.800
but that is over now, and I hope he wats

1043
00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:04.639
and because he deserves nothing better. Danny stood unmoved. When

1044
00:55:04.679 --> 00:55:06.559
it was his turn to speak. He looked at the

1045
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:10.320
twins directly, Greg and Alexa. I never lied to you, guys.

1046
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:12.280
I had never lied to you, and I'm telling you

1047
00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:15.079
to your face. I did not kill your father, and

1048
00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:18.719
you know that. The judge handed down the maximum sentence

1049
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:20.760
twenty five years to life.

1050
00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:24.559
Danny Pelosi was handcuffed and taken away to begin serving

1051
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:28.000
his time. In the months that followed, the legal machinery

1052
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:31.079
that had been grinding since Ted's death slowly began to

1053
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:34.960
resolve itself. The custody battle between Kay Maine and Sandy

1054
00:55:35.000 --> 00:55:38.239
Williams reached a settlement in early two thousand and five.

1055
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:42.440
Alexa and Grego would stay in Huntsville permanently with their

1056
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.519
aunt Sandy and her uncle Bob. The arrangement that had

1057
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:49.119
begun as a temporary visit to Alabama was now their life.

1058
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.719
The two Ukrainian orphans, adopted into a life of extraordinary privilege,

1059
00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:57.320
would now live on a tree lined street in Huntsville, Alabama,

1060
00:55:57.400 --> 00:55:59.960
with a woman who taught Sunday school and a doctor

1061
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.800
whose truck had a vanity plate that read n Ephroo

1062
00:56:04.039 --> 00:56:08.119
Nephro I guess he was a nephrologist. Kay received the

1063
00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:11.159
one million dollars that Generosa had promised her in the will.

1064
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.280
Eventually a settlement was made where she would get an

1065
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:18.159
additional undisclosed amount of money for vacating the beach house

1066
00:56:18.199 --> 00:56:21.280
on Middle Lane where Ted had been killed. The house

1067
00:56:21.320 --> 00:56:24.599
would pass on fully to his children. In two thousand

1068
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:27.079
and five, a made for TV movie called Murder in

1069
00:56:27.159 --> 00:56:30.360
the Hamptons was released based on the Ted in Generosa

1070
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:35.199
Ammon's story. It starred Poppy Montgomery as Generosa, David Sutcliffe

1071
00:56:35.199 --> 00:56:39.519
as Ted, and Sean Christian as Danny Pelosi. In twenty twelve,

1072
00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:43.519
eleven years after Ted Ammon's murder, Danny Pelosi sat down

1073
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.960
with ABC News and shared his version of what happened.

1074
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.639
He didn't do it, he said, but Generosa did, He

1075
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:54.760
told the interviewer. Generosa wanted revenge. She wanted revenge because

1076
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:59.039
of that baby. She went berserk, berserk, out of this world, insane,

1077
00:56:59.199 --> 00:57:02.639
white hatred, psycho killer. He was talking about the child

1078
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:06.760
that Ted had allegedly fathered with another woman. In Danny's telling,

1079
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:10.039
that was the thing that had finally pushed Generosa over

1080
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:13.360
the edge. What happened next, Danny said, began on a

1081
00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:17.280
construction site while he and his crew were renovating Generosa's

1082
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:20.320
Manhattan townhouse. She came down to the job and made

1083
00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:23.800
an offer to the room fifty thousand dollars to anyone

1084
00:57:23.880 --> 00:57:26.840
willing to beat up her husband. Several men heard it,

1085
00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:30.920
and several were interested. Danny said, I got regular guys

1086
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:33.840
working for me fifty thousand dollars to go throw somebody

1087
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:37.280
a beating. I'm sorry. Everybody was interested in the job.

1088
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:41.599
Danny said he volunteered himself, saving Generosa the trouble of

1089
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:44.760
finding someone else, but she had turned him down. He

1090
00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:48.440
was on probation for his DWI. She reminded him Ted

1091
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:51.320
would call the police and Danny would go straight to jail.

1092
00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:54.440
So someone else took the job. Danny claims it was

1093
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:58.320
Chris Perino, his former employee, who had met with Generosa

1094
00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:01.840
privately without Danny's nowe and accepted her offer.

1095
00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:05.480
So if Generosa went into this room full of you

1096
00:58:05.639 --> 00:58:08.599
guys that are working, did any of them testify?

1097
00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:12.880
I don't believe any of them testified to that effect. Parino, though,

1098
00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:16.920
had already told his own story. Two years after Danny's conviction,

1099
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:21.639
under pressure from prosecutors, he turned state's evidence. He confessed

1100
00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:24.599
to driving with Danny to the Easthampton house the night

1101
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:28.119
of the murder. He told prosecutors he watched Danny exit

1102
00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:30.559
the house with blood on him, and that Danny told

1103
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:33.079
him he'd had a fight with Ted Ammon and thought

1104
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:36.480
he was dead. In a plea deal. Parino pleaded guilty

1105
00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:40.239
to hindering the prosecution and was sentenced to six months.

1106
00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:43.800
In Danny's version of events, Perino went in not him,

1107
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:47.679
and Generosa arranged it not him. He did admit to

1108
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:51.360
paying Parino what Generosa had promised. After it was done,

1109
00:58:51.679 --> 00:58:54.559
Danny said, I'm not innocent and the things that happened

1110
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:57.159
after the murder, and this is why I never told

1111
00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:00.280
my story. Are you buying Danny's new version of events here?

1112
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:01.119
I am not?

1113
00:59:01.679 --> 00:59:05.320
He neither. For years after Danny went to prison, Alexa

1114
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.440
and Greg lived quietly in Huntsville, going to school and

1115
00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:12.199
growing up. Then Greg decided to make a documentary. His

1116
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:15.599
reasons were personal. He said, we'd hear all these things

1117
00:59:15.599 --> 00:59:19.519
about my father, gay trists, all this crap. It was absurd,

1118
00:59:19.639 --> 00:59:22.199
but it really affected the way I perceived my father

1119
00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:25.119
and mother. Editing the documentary and trying to come to

1120
00:59:25.199 --> 00:59:27.880
terms with everything was my way of trying to find

1121
00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:30.679
out who my parents were on my own. He and

1122
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:33.840
Alexa visited relatives, and they visited the house on Middle

1123
00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:36.559
Lane where their father had died, and they went to

1124
00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:39.760
Ukraine to look for their birth mother. Sadly, they found

1125
00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:43.199
out that their birth mother had died of alcoholism years earlier,

1126
00:59:43.440 --> 00:59:46.400
and their biological father had been a one night stand.

1127
00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:50.480
One question not answered in the documentary is whether Generosa

1128
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:54.159
was involved in or had knowledge of Ted's killing. Greg

1129
00:59:54.199 --> 00:59:57.960
and Alexa aren't sure. Greg said there are no answers.

1130
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:00.559
The only people that really know are Min, my father,

1131
01:00:00.719 --> 01:00:03.480
and my mother and Danny, who is a psychopath and

1132
01:00:03.639 --> 01:00:07.119
is in jail. Alexa added it doesn't really matter. She

1133
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:09.840
will always be our mother. A few years ago, Greg

1134
01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:13.119
posted the documentary to his YouTube channel. We'll share a

1135
01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:15.320
link in our show notes. I watched it. It was

1136
01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:18.480
really it was very moving and well done. Yeah, going

1137
01:00:18.519 --> 01:00:21.000
to the house and kind of all of the you know,

1138
01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:23.480
they went to the mansion where Ted was killed and

1139
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:26.239
all of their things were still there really, you know,

1140
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:28.519
the house had passed to them and things were pretty

1141
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.639
much as they were. And then seeing them to go

1142
01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:33.480
to Ukraine was really interesting too, Like they found a

1143
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:37.239
lot of like relatives and brothers and sisters, half brothers,

1144
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:39.320
half sisters and all these people and it was very

1145
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:40.920
it was it was super moving.

1146
01:00:41.000 --> 01:00:43.079
I will definitely check that out. When did they go

1147
01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:45.039
to Ukraine before the war started?

1148
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:48.840
Yeah, they made the documentary In twenty twelve. Greg is

1149
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:52.199
now married. His wife Stacy, went through her own battle

1150
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:56.119
with breast cancer and thankfully finished chemo successfully in twenty

1151
01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:58.599
twenty two. I wasn't able to find as much out

1152
01:00:58.639 --> 01:01:01.039
about Alexa today. She seems to be a bit more

1153
01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:03.960
private than her brother. In twenty seventeen, though she did

1154
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:08.039
graduate from usc Film School. Greg and Alexa both serve

1155
01:01:08.119 --> 01:01:11.960
as trustees for the Ammin Foundation, which has around sixteen

1156
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:16.159
million dollars in assets and awards grants for various causes.

1157
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:20.239
Also in twenty seventeen, Greg and Alexa finally sold the

1158
01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:23.840
house on Middle Lane for somewhere between eight and nine

1159
01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:27.760
million dollars. In twenty twenty one, on the twentieth anniversary

1160
01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:31.599
of Ted Amman's murder, Greg posted this to his Instagram.

1161
01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:35.360
Dear Dad, emotions run high on this October twentieth and

1162
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:38.360
twenty first of this year of twenty twenty one. You

1163
01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:40.280
would be in awe of the world we live in.

1164
01:01:40.639 --> 01:01:43.039
It's been twenty years since you were murdered, and since

1165
01:01:43.079 --> 01:01:46.000
we last hugged and smiled together. I miss and think

1166
01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:49.000
about you every day. I love you very much since

1167
01:01:49.039 --> 01:01:51.400
your murder. The lines in the story have been drawn,

1168
01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:55.719
twisted and manipulated. Fingers have been pointed, narratives have been

1169
01:01:55.760 --> 01:02:00.000
formulated and confusion forced, while judgments have been quickly passed

1170
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:03.440
to most our story has already ended, or they aren't

1171
01:02:03.480 --> 01:02:06.519
even aware of a beginning. The groundwork of your legacy

1172
01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:09.480
was set in glass, not in stone. I will break

1173
01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:12.440
through it and shine light on your truths. Your son,

1174
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:16.280
Greg Ammon, rest in peace. Ted. Well, that is the

1175
01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:19.920
story of Ted and Generosa, Ammin. I have a few

1176
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:23.119
questions for you, as usual. So one is it's kind

1177
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:25.000
of a simple question, but why do you think Ted

1178
01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.440
refused to hire a bodyguard despite you know, people told him.

1179
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:32.159
He had told people, you know, she's crazy, I'm scared,

1180
01:02:32.239 --> 01:02:34.400
She's said she's going to kill me, and yet he

1181
01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:37.639
didn't hire a bodyguard, which makes me really sad because

1182
01:02:37.639 --> 01:02:39.199
he could have done it very easily.

1183
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:43.000
Yeah, definitely, I wish he would have. He probably thought

1184
01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:45.480
that he could handle anything that came his way from

1185
01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:49.039
Generosa Is he had for years, right, Yeah, and he

1186
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:51.239
had a security system and maybe he thought that was

1187
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:53.639
just enough. Yeah, though it sounds like he thought he

1188
01:02:53.679 --> 01:02:55.280
was pretty lax about wax about it.

1189
01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:57.679
Yeah, I think part of it. We talked about this

1190
01:02:57.719 --> 01:03:00.079
a little bit earlier, but Ted was a very ration

1191
01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:03.599
analytical type of guy, and in his mind, he's like, well,

1192
01:03:03.639 --> 01:03:04.599
they're not going to kill me.

1193
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:06.280
Because I'm the money maker.

1194
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:08.519
Yeah, well not that. Not only that, but they were

1195
01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:10.440
getting a divorce and she was going to get a

1196
01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:12.599
whole bunch of money. And I think in his mind,

1197
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:15.039
if they killed him, they were going to get caught

1198
01:03:15.199 --> 01:03:17.360
and they would get nothing. So why would they do that?

1199
01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:21.639
But obviously people like Generosa and Danny aren't necessarily thinking

1200
01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:24.880
in that right type of way. So Danny took the

1201
01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:28.199
stand against his lawyer's advice because he was convinced that

1202
01:03:28.239 --> 01:03:29.880
he could charm the jury. I think that's just the

1203
01:03:29.960 --> 01:03:31.639
kind of guy he was, like he was, you know,

1204
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:34.639
he was a charming guy, I think, and probably people

1205
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:37.679
he could win people over. But the prosecutor, of course,

1206
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:40.239
later said that he was her best witness. So I'm

1207
01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:42.960
just curious what, like what that says about Danny to you.

1208
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:45.119
Well, it sounds like Danny was able to talk his

1209
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:47.039
way out of a lot of things throughout his life,

1210
01:03:47.079 --> 01:03:49.920
even though you know, eventually he he did go.

1211
01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:51.400
To jail, didn't catch up to him eventually.

1212
01:03:51.880 --> 01:03:53.360
Yeah, but you know, he just thought he was a

1213
01:03:53.440 --> 01:03:55.760
charmer and he would always be able to work things out.

1214
01:03:55.960 --> 01:03:56.559
Yeah.

1215
01:03:56.639 --> 01:03:59.679
Why was Danny charged with second degree murder? Was there

1216
01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:01.960
just not enough evidence for a first degree murder?

1217
01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:04.480
I guess I'm not really sure what it takes for

1218
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:07.440
something to be premeditated. I mean, they knew, assuming it

1219
01:04:07.480 --> 01:04:11.559
was him logging into the surveillance system. He logged in,

1220
01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:13.880
you know, at two am or whatever, but I don't

1221
01:04:13.920 --> 01:04:16.000
think they had any proof that it was something he

1222
01:04:16.039 --> 01:04:18.760
had been planning for months or years. I mean, he

1223
01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:20.679
had bought a stun gun, which you could say might

1224
01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:23.039
have been planning. But in his defense, he was like,

1225
01:04:23.079 --> 01:04:26.199
I bought that for protection at home. So I think

1226
01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:29.000
they just didn't have enough to go after first degree.

1227
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:31.599
It's interesting that he bought a stun gun and not

1228
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:34.920
an actual gun. Maybe he didn't buy an actual gun

1229
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:37.599
because he had felony DUIs and he was not able

1230
01:04:37.599 --> 01:04:39.800
to purchase a firearm. Yeah. Oh, he had a lot

1231
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:41.280
of friends.

1232
01:04:40.880 --> 01:04:43.440
Right, Yeah, I don't really know the story behind that. Yeah,

1233
01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:46.039
I think the stun gun thing, maybe he just thought

1234
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:48.840
it was cool. One thing I think is really interesting

1235
01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:51.280
about this story is that Generos's mom, who we talked

1236
01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:55.199
about in part one, Babe, Babe, she had cancer and

1237
01:04:55.239 --> 01:04:58.039
she ignored it, like she just basically was in denial,

1238
01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:00.159
I think, and went on and by the time she

1239
01:05:00.199 --> 01:05:02.320
finally addressed it, it was too late. And really the

1240
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:06.239
same thing happened to Generosa. She had doctors sending her

1241
01:05:06.639 --> 01:05:09.000
registered letters saying, you need to get this checked out,

1242
01:05:09.039 --> 01:05:10.639
and she just ignored it.

1243
01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:14.079
I think, you know, it's weird how her very worst

1244
01:05:14.119 --> 01:05:17.280
fear coming true, and she probably thought it was her

1245
01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:19.480
fate and she didn't want to deal with it. I mean,

1246
01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:21.719
it's such a hard thing to deal with, and yeah,

1247
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:24.400
her very worst fear. I would guess that that would

1248
01:05:24.400 --> 01:05:26.239
happen to her, and then it was happening. She just

1249
01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:27.800
didn't know how to process it.

1250
01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:29.360
Yeah, I'm sure that's it.

1251
01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:32.079
And maybe she thought it was futile too, because while

1252
01:05:32.119 --> 01:05:34.199
my mom died, you know, I'm just going to die too.

1253
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:35.960
I just want to make the most out of the

1254
01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:36.880
time I have left.

1255
01:05:37.159 --> 01:05:39.599
Yeah, maybe maybe so, although she did, you know, she

1256
01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:42.159
was always so angry at her mother that her mother,

1257
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:45.440
you know, basically wasted away with this disease. And I

1258
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:47.559
think I would I would have thought she would want

1259
01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:49.679
to be more proactive, But I think it's sometimes hard

1260
01:05:49.719 --> 01:05:52.119
to escape the patterns that are sort of, you know,

1261
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:55.840
instilled in us by our upbringing and our parents. Do

1262
01:05:55.880 --> 01:05:59.360
you think that Generosa was actively involved in Ted's murder?

1263
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:01.039
Do you think Dan and he did it on his own.

1264
01:06:01.559 --> 01:06:04.320
I would have to believe that she was involved, right, I.

1265
01:06:04.679 --> 01:06:07.440
Have to believe she was either involved or had knowledge

1266
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:07.679
of it.

1267
01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:09.239
Maybe she would want to be there.

1268
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:10.760
Do you think she would have wanted to be there

1269
01:06:11.079 --> 01:06:14.000
just knowing how vindictive and who she was. I wouldn't.

1270
01:06:14.119 --> 01:06:16.159
It wouldn't surprise me if she was there.

1271
01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:18.920
Maybe she wanted to deliver the fatal blow. I don't know.

1272
01:06:19.159 --> 01:06:22.039
Yeah. Maybe I wish that she had chosen to talk

1273
01:06:22.119 --> 01:06:24.559
before she died. I always feel like, if you're you're

1274
01:06:24.639 --> 01:06:27.480
terminally ill and you don't have long to live, like

1275
01:06:27.559 --> 01:06:30.760
you would at some point feel guilty and be like, yes,

1276
01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:33.000
you know, I'm gonna get this off my chest finally.

1277
01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:34.920
And I wish she had talked to the police.

1278
01:06:35.079 --> 01:06:38.639
I think there's the hope, though, that your children will

1279
01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:41.320
still see you as a decent human beings. Maybe they

1280
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:44.159
would have some doubt. Yeah, if she admitted it.

1281
01:06:44.199 --> 01:06:47.119
Then Yeah, that's again, it's actually a really good transition

1282
01:06:47.119 --> 01:06:48.719
because I was going to ask you, like, it seems

1283
01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:51.840
like from watching the documentary that the kids still have

1284
01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:54.760
a positive view of their mom, Like they seem like

1285
01:06:54.840 --> 01:06:57.800
they remember her fondly and things like that, and which

1286
01:06:57.920 --> 01:06:59.880
kind of surprised me a little bit. But maybe that's

1287
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:03.199
part of it. Maybe they just I mean, it's their mother, right,

1288
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:06.400
so there's that, but maybe they also just don't really

1289
01:07:06.440 --> 01:07:09.079
feel confident whether she was involved or not.

1290
01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:12.440
Yeah, it sounds like she well, I don't know if

1291
01:07:12.440 --> 01:07:14.199
she was a good mom or not, but you know,

1292
01:07:14.280 --> 01:07:15.000
she did try.

1293
01:07:15.159 --> 01:07:17.519
She loved them, and she really tried to be there

1294
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:18.760
for them, so.

1295
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:21.320
Hopefully, I mean, I'm glad that they have fund memories

1296
01:07:21.320 --> 01:07:21.599
of her.

1297
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:24.559
Yeah. Once again, I'll just say how impressed I am

1298
01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:27.840
that that Greg and Alexa, they seem from everything I've

1299
01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:29.800
been able to tell, they just seem like they are

1300
01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:32.960
much more well adjusted than I would think would be

1301
01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:35.679
possible given all that they've been through. And obviously I

1302
01:07:35.679 --> 01:07:38.719
don't know them personally, but just watching the documentary, you know,

1303
01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:41.039
seeing social media and things like that, the fact that

1304
01:07:41.079 --> 01:07:44.480
they are still managing their dad's or they created their dad,

1305
01:07:44.559 --> 01:07:47.079
this foundation for their dad, and they're doing good work

1306
01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:49.920
with it. It really Yeah, it does make me very

1307
01:07:50.039 --> 01:07:50.519
very happy.

1308
01:07:50.559 --> 01:07:53.039
I think sometimes when you grow up in those, you know,

1309
01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:55.679
hard situations, you have to grow up faster and you

1310
01:07:55.760 --> 01:07:58.880
have to become an adult a little sooner and you

1311
01:07:58.960 --> 01:07:59.960
reach maturity fast.

1312
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:03.360
Yeah. Last thing, I just wanted to mention. There's obviously

1313
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:05.559
a lot of information out there about this case, but

1314
01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:08.159
I do want to mention my primary source, which is

1315
01:08:08.199 --> 01:08:11.280
a book called Almost Paradise. The East Hampton Murder of

1316
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:14.639
Ted Ammin by Karen Crowley from two thousand and five

1317
01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:17.319
is a really really good book, really good source of

1318
01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:25.920
information about this case. I know everyone has been wondering,

1319
01:08:25.960 --> 01:08:29.760
but I have no update on our subdivision drama situation.

1320
01:08:30.279 --> 01:08:30.960
Still no reply.

1321
01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:32.079
That is disappointing.

1322
01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:33.319
It is really disappointing.

1323
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:36.359
Speaking of neighbors, we haven't watched all of them, but

1324
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:38.840
there is a show on HBO right now called Neighbors

1325
01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:42.000
about like neighbors.

1326
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:43.239
At war with each other, like.

1327
01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:48.520
Super serious issues that are yeah of legal issues and

1328
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:50.439
it's kind of crazy. I don't want to give too

1329
01:08:50.520 --> 01:08:50.920
much away.

1330
01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:53.159
We've only watched a couple episodes of it. But it's

1331
01:08:53.399 --> 01:08:55.880
the people in it. A lot of them are literally

1332
01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:56.760
seeing well.

1333
01:08:56.680 --> 01:08:58.800
I shouldn't say that they're insane. They're passionate about what

1334
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.279
they're arguing about. Some other issues are like, yeah, I

1335
01:09:01.600 --> 01:09:03.720
don't know who's the winner here. Some of them are

1336
01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:04.520
really hard to tell.

1337
01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:08.279
Yeah, but it's fun to watch for sure. We mentioned

1338
01:09:08.319 --> 01:09:11.439
Wynton Marsalis quite a few times in this case. He

1339
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:14.000
was kind of a friend of Ted's. This is probably

1340
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:17.279
my only opportunity to ever tell my Winton Marsalis story.

1341
01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:20.399
Have I told me? Have I told you my Winton Marcellis.

1342
01:09:19.880 --> 01:09:21.680
I don't know. I'll let you know after you say it.

1343
01:09:21.680 --> 01:09:24.640
It's not the most exciting story. But before you and

1344
01:09:24.720 --> 01:09:27.840
I met, I was dating someone else and she and.

1345
01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:32.279
I I know it was her name Tina.

1346
01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:33.680
No, it wasn't Tina.

1347
01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:37.359
He did date like directly before me. His girlfriend was Tina.

1348
01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:41.560
It was Tara, completely different thing. Tara and I were

1349
01:09:41.600 --> 01:09:44.640
out to dinner at a restaurant. I lived in Ohio

1350
01:09:44.640 --> 01:09:47.439
at the time, and Wynton Marsalis was there at the

1351
01:09:47.479 --> 01:09:50.119
restaurant having dinner. I guess he was in town for

1352
01:09:50.159 --> 01:09:54.239
a concert and he was eyeing my girlfriend and he

1353
01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:56.560
actually he got up and he walked past our table

1354
01:09:56.600 --> 01:09:58.479
and he did one of these how you do and

1355
01:09:58.640 --> 01:10:00.920
type of thing as he walked past, like in that

1356
01:10:01.000 --> 01:10:03.760
kind of voice. I was like, did Winton Marsalis just

1357
01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:05.720
put a move on you? And she was like, yeah,

1358
01:10:05.720 --> 01:10:08.960
he totally totally did. And that's the end of the song.

1359
01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:11.079
Oh, I thought you went to the bathroom and then

1360
01:10:11.119 --> 01:10:14.000
you you took his head and you slammed him into

1361
01:10:14.039 --> 01:10:15.520
the sync a few times.

1362
01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:18.439
No, I wish there was more to the story, but

1363
01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:20.079
it's just kind of funny.

1364
01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:25.359
Actually actually, yeah, yeah, did that make you dislike him?

1365
01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:29.600
Have you never listened to a Winton Marsalis song since then?

1366
01:10:29.720 --> 01:10:29.920
You know?

1367
01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:32.159
We talked about this the other day. I think neither

1368
01:10:32.199 --> 01:10:35.039
of us are big jazz people. I really wasn't the

1369
01:10:35.279 --> 01:10:38.199
win Marsalis fan before. I wasn't really after. I have

1370
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:39.039
nothing against him.

1371
01:10:39.119 --> 01:10:40.479
I thought you liked jazz.

1372
01:10:40.760 --> 01:10:43.840
There are some styles of jazz that I am okay with,

1373
01:10:44.039 --> 01:10:47.600
but it's definitely not my favorite, not one of my.

1374
01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:50.319
I think if you're playing it, if you're like a musician,

1375
01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.960
I think it's probably super fun. But it seems like

1376
01:10:53.000 --> 01:10:55.479
most jazz songs could go on for eternity.

1377
01:10:55.720 --> 01:10:58.520
Yeah, and it's just jazz. There's such a wide spectrum.

1378
01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:00.720
Like some jazz I feel like is kind of nice

1379
01:11:00.720 --> 01:11:03.479
to listen to another it's just very dissonant and very

1380
01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:06.760
like kind of hurts here yours in some way? Oh okay, Yeah,

1381
01:11:07.199 --> 01:11:08.920
I hope you haven't offended.

1382
01:11:09.039 --> 01:11:12.880
You just said probably you emails and hutters too rich

1383
01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:17.920
that love Mary Kill. We've been making all sorts of

1384
01:11:18.800 --> 01:11:21.479
enemies lately, but we're not going to talk about that.

1385
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:25.640
We court a lot of controversy here. I love well.

1386
01:11:25.680 --> 01:11:27.399
I have one last thing I wanted to talk about,

1387
01:11:28.199 --> 01:11:30.640
and this is not maybe it is controversial at all,

1388
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:31.800
but you know, they're I.

1389
01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:35.600
Have found that almost anything that's can become controversial since

1390
01:11:35.640 --> 01:11:36.840
we've been recording a podcast.

1391
01:11:37.000 --> 01:11:39.279
Yeah, we all know about the burger wars that are

1392
01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:43.319
going on lately. The McDonald's ceo that it all started

1393
01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:46.159
when he was on video doing taking a bite of

1394
01:11:46.199 --> 01:11:48.319
their big arch burger.

1395
01:11:48.239 --> 01:11:51.600
And he had the appeal of I don't know what

1396
01:11:51.680 --> 01:11:54.840
has zero appeal glue like white glue.

1397
01:11:54.880 --> 01:11:59.279
It was it was like not enthusiast bite and it

1398
01:11:59.359 --> 01:12:01.920
was really and and all the other CEOs from all

1399
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:06.039
the other fast food companies started doing their own thing,

1400
01:12:06.199 --> 01:12:09.560
and then the costco CEO jumped in with the hot dog.

1401
01:12:09.800 --> 01:12:13.840
Yeah, hot dog, I'm responsible for the costcos eating the

1402
01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:14.319
hot dog.

1403
01:12:14.439 --> 01:12:14.680
You are.

1404
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:17.239
I'm not going to say why you are.

1405
01:12:17.560 --> 01:12:20.079
You are responsible for that. I only bring that up

1406
01:12:20.079 --> 01:12:23.119
because I every like about once a month or so,

1407
01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:26.279
I just crave a good burger, a good like a

1408
01:12:26.319 --> 01:12:29.479
fast food burger. And I think this weekend maybe the weekend,

1409
01:12:29.640 --> 01:12:31.920
and I'm really struggling with which one to go with

1410
01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:35.720
because McDonald's has this new burger. Burger King has apparently

1411
01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:38.720
revamped their burger five guys has all this new stuff.

1412
01:12:38.760 --> 01:12:40.319
So I don't know, what do you what do you think?

1413
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:43.920
So that that's your question, My question, which fast food

1414
01:12:43.920 --> 01:12:44.840
burger should you eat?

1415
01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:47.800
Eat? Well? Maybe should we give Burger King another chance?

1416
01:12:47.920 --> 01:12:50.439
We haven't had Burger King in a long long time.

1417
01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:53.640
Well, let me explain something. Someone someone's probably thinking, Well,

1418
01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:55.880
you can cook, and you have a kitchen, why don't

1419
01:12:55.920 --> 01:12:58.159
you I have like certain things that I refuse to

1420
01:12:58.159 --> 01:13:00.560
cook in our house. Yeah, and like I don't ever

1421
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:02.840
fry anything at home. I just feel like it makes

1422
01:13:02.840 --> 01:13:05.439
the house smelly. We go out to eat enough where yeah,

1423
01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:07.560
and it just makes such a big mess. So we

1424
01:13:07.680 --> 01:13:10.720
tend not to cook burgers in the house either, because

1425
01:13:10.720 --> 01:13:12.520
they're just really messy. You could make a burger on

1426
01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:13.560
the grill, though.

1427
01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:14.319
Yeah, that's true.

1428
01:13:14.359 --> 01:13:17.000
It's going to be it's actually warming up. So so

1429
01:13:17.039 --> 01:13:19.119
you're asking me, you're posing the question to be which

1430
01:13:19.119 --> 01:13:20.000
burger should you eat?

1431
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:22.239
Yeah, and I want our listeners to let us know

1432
01:13:22.439 --> 01:13:25.039
where we should get burgers front too. It's not going

1433
01:13:25.119 --> 01:13:26.279
to be in time for this weekend.

1434
01:13:26.319 --> 01:13:28.920
But well, I like to go to like a good

1435
01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:32.000
dive bar sometimes and get a burger. I think that's

1436
01:13:32.039 --> 01:13:34.159
the best burger. Yeah, you know, I like when the

1437
01:13:34.159 --> 01:13:37.600
bun is like toasted a little bit, and you know,

1438
01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:39.439
I think that's the best burger you're going to get.

1439
01:13:39.560 --> 01:13:42.640
But if you're saying fast food exclusively, yeah.

1440
01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:45.000
Well, let's think about the chain, like the chains.

1441
01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:48.479
That cause you do like the whole char broiled Yeah.

1442
01:13:48.319 --> 01:13:50.119
Yeah, Wendy's, Wendy's.

1443
01:13:50.199 --> 01:13:53.800
I don't know, we really don't get Colver's has a

1444
01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:58.119
good burger. I can't believe this is the question you're

1445
01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:02.000
to I might have to go get we have and

1446
01:14:02.119 --> 01:14:03.840
like an old fashioned I don't know if this is

1447
01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:06.520
how old fashion is, but a and w in our town.

1448
01:14:06.640 --> 01:14:09.199
There's not many of them, but it's like a car hop. Yeah,

1449
01:14:09.239 --> 01:14:11.680
and it's you know, kind of a pull your car

1450
01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:14.560
up and the Yeah. It's kind of a cute, old

1451
01:14:14.600 --> 01:14:18.000
fashioned thing, I guess, and so cool. That's probably the

1452
01:14:18.079 --> 01:14:21.720
closest place to our house to get food really, So yeah,

1453
01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:23.880
I don't know. I don't know. Rich all right, well,

1454
01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:24.359
I don't know.

1455
01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:26.760
Let us know where you stand on the burger wars,

1456
01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:29.000
and maybe the next time we go get a burger,

1457
01:14:29.039 --> 01:14:31.319
I'll take our the advice from our listeners.

1458
01:14:31.319 --> 01:14:34.439
Okay, do you want to talk about March madness at all?

1459
01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:36.640
We can mention it briefly. I think when this episode

1460
01:14:36.720 --> 01:14:39.279
comes out for most people on Monday, that will be

1461
01:14:39.359 --> 01:14:42.199
the day of the men's final. The women's final will

1462
01:14:42.199 --> 01:14:45.039
have taken place on this Sunday. But it has been

1463
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:47.920
really a lot of fun doing our love Mary Kill.

1464
01:14:48.119 --> 01:14:49.960
Yeah. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone

1465
01:14:50.039 --> 01:14:52.399
who has done that with us. And if you don't

1466
01:14:52.399 --> 01:14:54.439
know what a bracket is, sorry that we've talked about

1467
01:14:54.479 --> 01:14:56.479
it so much, but it's just been fun to have,

1468
01:14:56.560 --> 01:14:58.439
you know, something to do with all of our listeners.

1469
01:14:58.520 --> 01:15:01.680
So we appreciate everyone I've done anticipated.

1470
01:15:01.159 --> 01:15:03.239
Bearable though, but other than that, it's been fun.

1471
01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:07.239
I'm doing okay. Well, I'm bummed because I did. I

1472
01:15:07.279 --> 01:15:09.960
feel like a misogynist because I did the women's breakup,

1473
01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:12.439
but I must have forgotten to save it, so I'm

1474
01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:15.079
not the women's at all.

1475
01:15:15.279 --> 01:15:17.560
Too bad. No chance of winning the whole thing, well.

1476
01:15:17.439 --> 01:15:19.840
I pretty much don't have any chance of winning, although

1477
01:15:19.840 --> 01:15:23.159
I think I'm like tied for fifth place, which feels pretty.

1478
01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:25.560
But you know that can, that can, that can at

1479
01:15:25.640 --> 01:15:26.159
any time.

1480
01:15:26.319 --> 01:15:27.159
So far, so good.

1481
01:15:27.359 --> 01:15:27.600
Yeah.

1482
01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:30.760
As always, thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate

1483
01:15:30.880 --> 01:15:32.159
each and every one of you.

1484
01:15:32.199 --> 01:15:35.640
Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe, find us on social media,

1485
01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:39.199
or send us an email at Lovemary Kill at gmail

1486
01:15:39.279 --> 01:15:42.319
dot com. We should probably mention we have birch available

1487
01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:46.520
if anyone wants merch. Just uh, just message me and

1488
01:15:46.560 --> 01:15:47.840
I'll tell you where to find it.

1489
01:15:48.239 --> 01:15:49.039
Until next time.

1490
01:15:49.159 --> 01:15:51.399
Don't cure a husband, and don't kill your wife. Don't

1491
01:15:51.479 --> 01:15:55.239
kill don't kill you. I'm sorry, I'm done. Put a

1492
01:15:55.239 --> 01:15:55.720
fork in me

1493
01:16:01.359 --> 01:16:31.680
To companion at