Generosa and Ted Ammon - Part 2

0:00 Hi. I'm Rich and I'm Tina. If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's. That some days you'll feel like killing your husband. And some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to love, Mary Kill. Hey Tina, Hey Rich? How are you today? I am good. How are you doing okay? I've been battling a little bit of a headache all day, but now I am feeling better because I'm here with you to talk about part two of this interesting case.

0:41 I'm wearing yellow today, so I hope that makes you feel more positive. Yes, yes, it's not a bright yellow though, it's kind of a mustard yellow. Would you call that? Sure? I don't know. It was hard to tear myself away from the neighborhood drama that's shaping up in. Our You have been tuned in, you know. I love a good subdivision drama thing, and this one's pretty interesting. Normally it's pretty boring around here. We all kind of keep to ourselves. We all do our own thing. I am a little worried, though, do you think anybody in our subdivision listens to us? I mean, you're not going to say anything that's not true? That's true. I'm not going to name names either. Well, but our subdivision it's kind of out in the country.

1:23 It's a subdivision, but it's surrounded by farmland and woods. But I wouldn't call it a country subdivision because we have rules and you have to adhere the rules. Right. Yes, it is a traditional subdivision. With an HOA and it's a nice subdivision and everyone like, you have to treat your grass chemically or people will be angry with you. Yes, exactly what we. Have hero dandelions are encouraged, right. But we have coyotes in the neighborhood. That's part of what you get when you live out in the middle of kind of farmland and stuff. We hear them at night. That's kind of spooky, like they make really kind of scary noises. It does sound like a Disney movie sometimes, like the bad parts of a Disney movie. Yeah, I did read today.

2:04 I was doing a little bit of research. There are eighty three counties in Michigan, and all eighty three counties have coyotes. Yeah, and we've had them at other places we've lived as well. But they're louder here, I think, Yeah. They really are, and so our HOA sent out an email a week ago or so saying they were going to hire a company to come in and try to trap them and remove them humanly. I did not get that email to do. Yeah, I got the email. But then today someone saw like someone was out and they shot. That's a scandal like in our like in our neighborhood, close to houses, and I think it was the whatever company they hired came and actually shot a coyote and the person confronted them and they said, yeah, we're shooting the coyotes and if we find the little the pups, we're going to shoot them too, And so people were pretty outraged on Facebook.

2:54 I'm outraged. And then our next door neighbor, who is the president of the HOA, he deleted the poets from Facebook and he kicked the people out of the group. But somebody else was also an admin of the group and screenshot and the fact that he kicked these people out. I'm very grateful that they did. I know they brought receipts to it. So now everybody's up in arms. They're calling for him to be recalled as the as the HOA president, and I'm waiting for his response. But it hasn't come yet. We will keep you updated, definitely by the end of the episode. We all haven't updated, but it's been several hours since you sent me the screen shots, and so I don't I would think that he would have responded. He's the kind of guy that would definitely respond right away, and he is our next door neighbor. I feel like we don't know them well. They seem like nice enough people, and like we were talking about earlier, I don't want to be the president of the HOA same, yeah, but I don't love the thought of things being shot in our subdivision either. And what time did this happen? Were there kids around? You know? Did kids waiting for the bus have to see that or you know?

3:58 Well, that's an issue, But the bigger shoot to me is like you told people you were going to do this and then you were going to get rid of them, And the fact that you're kicking people off the Facebook group, I'm not sure how you defend that. So we will break in if we have any breaking news on this topic. But onto better things. I have a snack for you. Wait, didn't you say that there was like a picture of someone there was a video a video of someone disposing of one of them. They were dragging the dead coyote through this through the brush. That's really disturbing. Yeah, but let's let's have a snack. Okay. I went to the gas station and I got gas station snacks, and you seem really exciting. So you did get me a soda, which was really nice because I have been cutting down on my soda.

4:41 That's right, part of our union agreement. But it turns out the Dorito's people and the Ruffles people have gone a little bit nuts and they are doing a flavor swap. So there are Doritos that are traditional Ruffles flavor and sour cream, and there are Ruffles that our traditional Dorito's flavor of cool ranch. So that's going to be pretty crazy. And then I also got you a Reese's cream egg because it is almost Easter. So wow, you spoil me. I sure do want to give them a tryal, I offered to make a homemade treat today and you said, no, no, no, there's. Nothing better than a good gas station treat. All right, let's do it. All right?

5:27 What did you think about that crazy flavor swap? It was very strange experience. It was kind of strange. The Dorito's to me tasted just like doritos, yes, tasting cheddar and sour cream, and I don't there must maybe there's a psychological term for that, but I just tasted like a dorito. To me, it was good, fine. And also with the ruffles, I don't know what that flavor was, but again it didn't taste like a cool ranch. Yeah I didn't. I didn't really care for the ruffles. I don't love cheddar and sour cream flavor, and I felt like that that's what the ruffles taste. I don't know, but ruffles are probably my favorite package, like potato chip, other than like you know, the local Michigan rans we have.

6:09 I think the Doritos and ruffles people should go back in their own corners and do their own thing. I agree. I did not take a bite of the Reese's egg because I there's although that's too many slavers, and I think it would taste really bad. I chose it specifically to pair well, well, you said. I got this for you, and then you proceeded to take a big bite of it. I was like, I thought that was a gift. Well it was, but I had to at least try it. Well, what did you think it was? It good? It was good. Yeah, it wasn't really any better than traditional Reesa's egg, but yeah, it was good. You didn't really describe it. It's not like the it's like. It looks like a Cadbury egg, Yeah, exactly, And it's like the peanut butter in the mill is a little creamier, but it's not that dramatically different. Should we get back to the case.

6:50 Sure, would you like to give us a recap of part one? Absolutely? In part one, we met Ted Ammon, a Pittsburgh born overachiever who climbed from international banking to the highest levels of Wall Street, passing both the English and New York bar exams without a law degree, and eventually joining the legendary firm KKR, where he helped engineer the thirty one billion takeover of r JR Nabisco, one of the largest leveraged bioutes in history. Jennerosa Rand had a much more turbulent beginning. Abandoned, passed between families, unmolested as a child, she remade herself through sheer will, moving to New York and building a career in real estate and design. When she and Ted met in nineteen eighty three. The attraction was immediate. They married in nineteen eighty six, adopted twins from Ukraine, and became one of Manhattan's most prominent power couples.

7:45 But wealth didn't bring peace. Generosa grew increasingly volatile and controlling, while Ted quietly began an affair with a colleague named Lori Finkel, who bore him a son. I thought you said that wasn't You aren't sure if that happened or not. You're correct, she did have a son, but it's not one hundred percent confirmed whether it was his or not. When Generosa discovered he had consulted a divorce lawyer, she launched an all out war, filing for divorce, demanding millions, turning the children against their father, and taking up with a rough edged electrician named Danny Pelosi. Danny, broken, desperate, was happy to play along. We left off with a divorce growing uglier by the day, Danny installing secret cameras throughout Ted's East Hampton home, and a situation about to turn dangerous.

8:31 Anything that I missed in that recap that we should talk about, well. Ted had cut Generosa off from any funding. That's right, and she had been spending at least one hundred thousand dollars a month on hotels and other things. Right, yeah, she was living it up, trying to establish this high standard of living so that a judge would rule in her favor when it came down to it. She had a whole staff of people working for her show, like a chauffeur and a chef cook, and she was generously paying them to inflate her monthly expenses. Exactly outside of a family court hearing. In August two thousand and one, Danny pulled Ted aside and said something that Ted couldn't quite let go of. Danny told him not to think he was the only one with money or the only one who knew people. Danny knew people too.

9:17 He dropped an Italian family name into the conversation. He never said the word mafia, and he never made a direct threat, but Ted heard it as one. Ted's sister and his business partner again urged him to hire a bodyguard, but again he refused. He told them that it would be irrational for Generosa and Danny to harm him. They would be the only suspects hurting him would accomplish the exact opposite of what they wanted. The logic seemed sound. Ted Ammon was a rational man, and he kept applying rational thinking to an increasingly irrational situation. The financial pressure on Generosa was ramping up. She had been quietly hitting up friends for loans with little success. She approached one friend and asked for help. The friend assumed she needed some cash to cover bills, maybe a few thousand dollars.

10:06 How much the friend asked? Ten million dollars, Generosa said the friend had no idea what to say. Say anyone ever hit you up for over a. Million, I mean, I think everyone would know better. Ted made his first formal divorce settlement offer ten million in cash plus the townhouse that Generosa had been renovating, a property worth around eight million. He would cover all expenses for the children. You had said the last episode. At the peak of Ted's wealth, I think he was worth four hundred million dollars, and at this point he was worth like two hundred million. I think when all was said and done, at the time of his death he was worth about ninety million, So his net worth had dropped pretty significantly from the four hundred million which was at its peak.

10:49 So he offered her ten million, and ten million adjusted for inflation is about eighteen point five million today, so that sounds like a pretty decent amount of money. Well ten million plus us the eight million dollars town house, so really even even more than that. But the townhouse wasn't finished yet, was it. It wasn't finished, but it was worth eight millions. So that's where she had planned on moving with the kids. Yeah, she was turning it into a Jetson's themed that's right, I forgot townhouse. Yeah. When Danny heard the terms that Ted had offered, he thought it sounded like winning the lottery. He urged Generosa to take it, but she said it was an insult. Ted was denying her the London flat, the Surrey Manor, and the beach House, which was the most important place in the world to her. She was still convinced that Ted was worth hundreds of millions and was trying to cheat her. In response to this insult, she went to the beach House and started throwing Ted's belongings out the window. His expensive clothes went first, Then somehow she managed to push his prized mahogany and slate desk, worth forty one thousand dollars out of the second floor window.

11:54 It hit the driveway stones and shattered. Next came a seven foot antique grandfather clock valued at one hundred thousand dollars. Then his two thousand dollars cappuccino maker, which landed on top of the pile. She grabbed a lighter and lighter fluid and set the whole thing on fire. Danny watched, unable to stop her. One afternoon, Danny's daughter, Rochelle, was visiting with some of her high school friends. They were all sprawled in the living room, relaxed, laughing. Rochelle stood behind her father on the couch and affectionately rubbed his shoulders. Generosa shrieked at her from across the room. Get your hands off him, He's mine. The room went silent as everyone stared. Later, Generosa accused Danny of incest. He told her she was out of her mind. What he didn't know was that Generosa had been molested by a relative as a young child. She had never told Danny, but it was there, always, underneath everything. The attacks on September eleventh, two thousand and one, hit ted hard. Like so many people in New York. He lost friends and colleagues that day, and it shook his sense of how the world was supposed to work. In the middle of that national grief and his own messy divorce, Ted started to really think about what he wanted to do with the rest of his life. He told his sister he was ready to start giving back and wanted to find a way to do some real good. He was already in talks with Bill Clinton about a joint charitable venture and was brainstorming ways to expand his legacy at the Lincoln Center alongside Wynton Marsalis. But his most sacred vow was in regards

13:27 to his children. Once the divorce papers were signed, he would dedicate the next several years to their healing. He called it his five year project, a mission to take the fractured pieces of Grego and Alexa and make them whole again. On September fifteenth, Danny Pelosi was driving Ted's black BMW home from a bar when he got pulled over and arrested for drunk driving again. I don't know if you remember from part one, but he had had probably five drunk driving arrests. He had spent time in prison at least a couple of times for it. Ed meanwhile, was starting to feel optimistic. Over dinner with friends, he said he was close to the finish line and confident he was going to get at least partial custody of the kids. He still wanted Generosa in the children's lives, but he wanted to ensure that he could be a stable center of gravity for them. He made a final settlement offer twenty four million dollars in cash, the townhouse and split custody of the kids. Generosa's own lawyers told her to accept it. It was the best that she was going to get. Generosa finally relented and agreed, though she was still bitter about losing the beach house and the Surrey estate in England. The final details were hammered out in a meeting on October eleventh, two thousand and one.

14:42 In a matter of days, the papers would be finalized and signed. That week, Ted attended a function with Wynton Marsalis and Bill Clinton and talked with Clinton about the charitable work they might do together. Later, he met an old friend for a drink. The friend later said that Ted seemed free, like a man who could finally s see the light at the end of the tunnel. Had invited his niece, Wendy and her husband to join him at the beach house for the upcoming weekend. Wendy was honest with him. She told him that even if she had been free, she wouldn't have come. The house scared her. Ted then called Lorie to see if she could spend the weekend with him in East Hampton. He was still seeing her off and on, despite the fact that she actually had a new boyfriend. She said she could stop by on Saturday, but couldn't stay the whole weekend.

15:27 On Saturday, October twentieth, two thousand and one, Ted Amman left Manhattan at midday and headed toward East Hampton in his audy station wagon. He made East Hampton at under two hours. He stopped at a local shop and bought a sweater for eighteen hundred dollars, then swung by a market in the village for food and drink for Sunday breakfast, along with a large coffee. While there, his sister Sandy called. He told her where he was, and he told her the good news. The divorce negotiations were over. They would sign the final papers in the coming week and that would be it. He told Sandy. He felt a tremendous sense of relief. He was going to take a long walk on the beach and clear his head. He turned into his driveway on Middle Lane and parked by the side door. It was a warm, sunny, calm afternoon. He grabbed his stuff and let himself in through the side door, punching in his secret code to silence the alarm. Danny received a notification on his pager from his security company that someone had entered the beach house. Ted put his things away and settled in with the Financial Times and The New York Times. That afternoon, Laurie came by. They spent some intimate time together before she left to go back to her boyfriend, who still had no idea that she was seeing Ted. That evening, Ted went to dinner alone at his favorite local restaurant, the Farmhouse. He ordered a tuna steak and a couple of glasses of white wine. Afterward, he walked down the beach. While he was walking, he called Laurie from his cell phone and got her voicemail.

16:59 He left a mess saying he was at two miles Hollow Beach, which he said he'd heard was a gay beach. He said there were some men there who were making him uneasy, and that he was heading home. He walked back to the house and closed the doors after he entered, but didn't lock them and didn't arm the security system. He got into bed naked as he always slept, and turned out the light. Meanwhile, Danny and Gena Rosa had argued on Saturday. Danny's cousin was getting married on Sunday, but Gena Rosa refused to go. She had met Danny's father once before and they hadn't gotten along. She had no interest in having another run in with him. She told Danny to go without her. They argued about it.

17:40 Then Danny got in his car legally for the first time in years, as his license had recently been reinstated, and drove alone to his sister Barbara's house and sent her more issues where he planned to spend the night before the wedding. I am shocked that this man his license was reinstated. Yeah, don't Lake should have driven again? No, I agree. On Sunday morning, Laurie tried reaching Ted at the beach house but got no answer. She tried his cell phone as well. Nothing. By Sunday afternoon, the silence was bothering her enough that she drove over with a friend. It parked outside fifty nine Middle Lane and sat for a moment looking at the house, but saw no signs of life.

18:21 Mary dialed the house again from the car. It rang and rang, so they drove away. Did she have the security code? Like, why didn't she go in and check the house if she was worried. I don't know if she had the security code or not. I don't know why she didn't go in. I think she must have just assumed that he had left. On Sunday morning, Danny left his sister's house and headed to his wife's house in Manerville to celebrate his son's birthday. Then he headed to his cousin's two o'clock wedding. That evening, he drove back to the city to be with Generosa. Sunday passed. Ted didn't respond to calls from Lurie, his sister Sandy, or his business partner Mark Engelson. People were getting worried, but still it wasn't unlike Ted to go off the grid for a day or two to recharge and clear his mind. By Monday morning, though those closest to Ted could tell something was wrong. First, he didn't show up for the scheduled board meeting for Jazz at Lincoln Center, leaving Wynton Marsalis and the other board members waiting on the chairman. Ted's assistant, Cathy, tried every number she had for him, with no luck. By the afternoon, mark Ingelsson was convinced something was wrong, but rather than phone the police, he decided to head to Ted's beach house himself. He asked Ted's driver Milton, to go with him.

19:34 They took a corporate helicopter from Manhattan to East Hampton, landed just after five p m. And took a cab to fifty nine Middle Lane. Ted's Porsche was parked in the driveway. The house was completely still. Mark and Milton put gloves on before going inside. They already censed, without saying it out loud, that they might be walking into a crime scene. They went inside, calling out for Ted. When they went upstairs, they found Ted's naked, bloody body twisted into a fetal position on the carpet beside his bed. Dark blood was spattered everywhere. At five nineteen they called nine one one. So Ted's Porsche was in the driveway at this point, had it not been there earlier when Laurie had driven by, or did she just think he I'm sure it.

20:19 Was there, but he had he had multiple cars, so I'm guessing she just thought he left in a different car. Okay. And the fact that they had clubs to put on, and that's a little strange, isn't it. I guess a little bit. Yeah, that surprised That detail surprised me a little bit. And I think I saw an interview with Mark Engelson and he said, you know, I didn't call the police just because I thought they would say I'm crazy, like, oh, you just haven't heard from this guy in a day, like, But he just knew that something was wrong and just felt like I should just go check it out myself. And I guess the gloves were just like being. Careful, We'll be back after a break.

21:01 It was the first murder in East Hampton in nearly twenty years. The village police took one look at the scene and called in the Suffolk County Homicide Squad. It was clear that Ted had undergone a severe beating from a blunt force object. He had sustained somewhere between thirty and thirty five blows to the head. He had severe cuts and fractures to his hands and arms, indicating that he had tried to fight off his attacker. The autopsy would later reveal fractured ribs and punctured lungs. There was also something curious, a series of double red burn marks on his neck and lower back. These were later identified as burns from a stun gun, probably used to incapacitate him during the attack. Technicians moved through every room of the mansion, methodically gathering and tagging evidence. They would spend the better part of a week there. There were a number of fingerprints found, but that was no surprise given the number of people friends, guests, contractors who had spent time in the beach house. There was no murder weapon found.

22:02 A canvas of the neighborhood turned up nothing useful. No one had seen or heard anything. The detectives knew they needed to talk to the soon to be ex wife. On Tuesday afternoon, two Suffolk County investigators showed up at Generosa and Danny's townhouse. Danny met them at the door. They had already heard the news after a contractor friend of Danny's had called. Danny told the detectives they couldn't speak to Generosa. In fact, they were already in the process of retaining a criminal attorney, though he was quick to add that they had nothing to do with any of this. Meanwhile, during their processing of the crime scene, police discovered the Rapid Eye surveillance system. They contacted John Kundall, the man who had installed the system, who agreed to come to the mansion and walk them through it. He showed them where the system hard drive was located behind a panel in the safe room, but the Rapid Eye unit had been ripped out of the wall. Whoever had been in that house knew exactly where to look and exactly what to take. Looking at system logs, Kundall was able to tell investigators that someone had remotely logged into the Rapid Eye program at around two am on Sunday morning.

23:10 The person watched for twenty one minutes, then remotely shut the system off and logged off. Kundall couldn't say who it was that had logged in, but he ran through the list of people who had known about the system, himself, the workman who had helped him install it, Generosa, their lawyers, and Danny Pelosi, who had actually been the one to hire Kundall for the job in the first place. Two members of Generosa's household staff also knew the butler and the cook. Detectives had a long and growing list of people they needed to speak with. Ted had a wide circle of friends and acquaintances. There were business partners and investors who may have felt wronged in some way, executives he had fired, and lawsuits that he had been involved in.

23:52 In addition to Danny and Generosa, there was also his ex wife, Randy, who had recently borrowed a million dollars from him. Urosa and Danny quickly put out a statement via their lawyer denying any involvement in the murder. Generosa had been at her townhouse in Manhattan all night, while Danny had spent the night at his sister's place in Center Moorshes. Investigators would never be able to say with exact certainty what happened inside fifty nine Middle Lane that night, but the physical evidence allowed them to reconstruct what they believed had taken place. It began at two in the morning. Someone opened a laptop and logged into the Rapid Eye surveillance system Remotely. They watched for twenty one minutes until they were satisfied that the house was quiet and that Ted was home alone sleeping. Some time after that, a man or possibly two men entered fifty nine Middle Lane.

24:43 He or they didn't need to break in because the doors were unlocked and the security system unarmed. The attackers had a stun gun and some type of long, heavy metal object. Ted would have never heard them coming. The attacks started with the jab of a stun gun to Ted's neck, jerking him awake but at the same time incapacitating him. Still, he was able to fight back, getting up and deflecting blows from the heavy object. He scrambled out of bed and was jolted with the stun gun again, this time in the back. Ted tried to get out of the room and tried to fight back, but it was too much. The blows kept coming, with more than thirty impacts to his head. At some point he could no longer fight back. After being sure Ted was dead, the killer went to the safe room and ripped the Rapid Eye hard drive out of the wall, just to be sure that the killing hadn't been captured on video.

25:35 The killer or killers wrapped up everything, the weapons, the Rapid Eye system any other incriminating evidence in a tarp that they had left downstairs and left through the beach House's French doors, leaving a trail of blood drops across the floor. Soon after Ted's murder, Danny Pelosi called his brother, Jim, who was a cop with the New York City Police Department. He had a problem. He said he had bought a taser while ago for his wife's protection. Knowing that a stun gun had been used in the attack on Ted, he wanted to get rid of it. Jim told him he would take care of it by placing it in a drop box at the police station. Dropboxes existed so that people could surrender illegal weapons anonymously, no questions asked.

26:19 Jim picked up the taser from Danny's wife, Tammy. So he is still married to Tammy. He is still married to Tammy at this point. Although he's living with Generosa. Correct. I think Tammy probably knew about Generosa because Danny was suddenly bringing money home and fixing up their own house. I'm not sure what the state of their marriage was, but it's so. Tammy was like, well, as long as you're bringing money in, I don't care where it's coming from or. Maybe she was just delaying the inevitable divorce. A week after Ted's death, Generosa held a private ceremony for him. It was a small gathering which none of Ted's friends attended. No one wanted to be in the same room as Generosa. The real memorial came later Lincoln Center, the place that Ted had poured his energy and money into. It was packed with the people who had actually known and loved him.

27:07 Generosa had not attended by request of Ted's sister, Sandy. Wynton Marsalis took the stage with his musicians and played New Orleans funeral music, one of the many jazz traditions that Ted had loved. It was the kind of send off that he deserved. Generosa, meanwhile, was gearing up to fight for what she believed was hers. She hired a lawyer and began preparing to challenge Ted's will. She didn't know what was in the will, but she assumed that Ted had made changes to cut her out of it at some point since she had filed for divorce. She was stunned to discover that Ted actually hadn't gotten around to changing his will. She was still the primary beneficiary and the co executor along with J. P. Morgan Chase Bank.

27:51 She would get everything, including all the houses that meant so much to her, other than money from a trust that was set aside for the twins. The total value of Ted's estate was eventually determined to be ninety seven million, four hundred twenty four thousand, six hundred twenty eight dollars and three cents. But before Generosa could get her hands on Ted's money, JP Morgan Chase intervened in November, acting in its role as co executor. The bank moved to freeze the estate. They argued that nothing should be settled until the murder investigation reached its conclusion. The courts agreed, although they did grant Generosa a monthly allowance of fifty thousand dollars.

28:32 How is she supposed to live on fifty thousand dollars a month. It's going to be rough. It's going to be rough, Oh boy, poor Generosa. Just kidding. Meanwhile, the murder of Ted Ammon became a massive sensational story that dominated the New York News. It was made to order for the media, with a brutal murder of a multi millionaire a luxurious Hampton's mansion a bitter divorce and the wife's loud, brash, blue collar lover. The press hounded Danny and Generosa relentlessly. They published photos of Danny driving the dead man's car and labeled Generosa as the merry widow. On the evening of New Year's Day two thousand and two, Danny Pelosi was holding court at a bar on the Upper East Side, buying rounds for everyone. At some point the evening took a turn. Danny got into a fight with another patron and someone noticed him working his charms on the waitress. The newspapers were there to see it all.

29:28 Danny and Generosa were undeterred by all the publicity. Less than three months after Ted's murder, they decided it was time to get married. But first Danny needed a divorce from his first wife, Tammy. Generosa's lawyers handled the paperwork and the divorce was done in mid January. The next day, Danny and Generosa tied the knot in a short civil ceremony. It's a little surprising that she didn't want like a big, showy wedding. Right then they jetted off to England and settled into Generosa's country estate with a twin. When the press caught wind of the nuptials, they had a field day, labeling them as the Hampton's murder mystery newlyweds. The honeymoon didn't last long. In February, Danny had to return to the United States for a court appearance on his latest DWY charge. The judge, displeased with Danny's record of missed probation appointments, took Danny's passport. Danny wasn't going back to England, so Generosa packed up the twins and came home. His poor twins have been through so much at this point totally.

30:31 The police investigation uncovered Danny's taser purchase. In fact, they found that he had purchased at least two stun guns at different times. At one point, he had brought one to the townhouse renovation project. Anxious to try it out. He asked if any of his workers wanted to be the guinea pig. When no one volunteered, he offered one hundred dollars and one of his burly crew members stepped up. Danny pressed the barrel up to the man's arm and pulled the trigger. He yelped and jumped back, saying his entire arm had gone numb. Danny loved it. How much would it take for you to be a guinea pig for a stun gun? I am curious. Five hundred bucks, five hundred Yeah, I'd probably do it for that, Okay. If Jim Pelosi learned more about the investigation and the fact that a stun gun had been used in Ted's killing, he started to freak out. He believed his brother's claim of innocence, but the stun gun detail was eating at him. Now Jim realized he could be an accessory and he had helped Danny get rid of the taser. This could destroy his career that he'd worked so hard to build. He was so close to making detective, and now he might lose his badge entirely. On March thirtieth, two thousand and two, Jim came home exhausted after a sixteen hour shift in the bathroom that evening, he had a seizure and lost consciousness, falling to the floor. When his wife found him later, he was gone dead at only thirty six years old.

31:55 That's really sad. Do you think just the stress of the situation. I don't know if it was stress or it was just something that was going to happen eventually. Anyway, it sounds. Like Jim Pelosi's death triggered an immediate investigation of its own. The brother of the prime suspect in a high profile murder case, himself the subject of an internal affairs inquiry, had suddenly dropped dead. The timing was difficult to ignore. It took time, but the autopsy results were eventually clear. Jim had died of a massive catastrophic epileptic event, with no warning and no known cause. Toxicology found nothing, no poison, no drugs. His heart had simply stopped. It was as far as anyone could determine a coincidence. Eventually, Generosa's lawyers got a judge to overrule the earlier decision to freeze Ted's assets. The money started to flow again. Additionally, generosasued to collect on Ted's business life insurance policy and walked away with a fifteen million dollars settlement. Wow. She began selling off his real estate holdings to cover the bills that had been piling up. She and Danny bought a modest home in Center or Moreshes for seven hundred thousand dollars and began renovating it. They rolled the twins in public school, and they took to it immediately. They loved their new school, their new friends, and they loved Danny.

33:15 Danny resumed taking his friends out and spending the money that Ted had earned hundreds of thousands of dollars across restaurants, bars, and casino tables. The press was still circling, but more and more it looked like they had gotten away with it. In June two thousand and two, Jennerosa came down with what seemed like the flu Her lungs began filling with fluid, and she was having trouble breathing. She grew dizzy and collapsed, and Danny finally took her to the doctor, who suspected pneumonia and ordered X rays. When the nurse looked at the films, the news was written across them, plainly shadows throughout the breast tissue, the lungs, the kidneys. The cancer had been growing quietly for a long time. It had already spread to her lymphatic system and was moving toward her brain, the same path that had taken with her mother Babe. Chemo therapy might buy her a few years, but nothing could save her. Gena Rosa resisted treatment, but eventually agreed to go to chemotherapy. She updated her will, leaving everything to Danny. Everything. Yep, her children weren't taking care of.

34:19 The trust Yeah, the trust fund was still going to be there for them. The illness remade their life together. Gena Rosa lost weight steadily, her face growing hollow, her eyes sunken. She looked in the mirror and saw her mother looking back. When the pain medications stopped being enough, she started taking more of it, and then started drinking. On top of that. The twins went to state with a friend of Danny's, a married man with two kids of his own. Danny paid him to take them in weekends at first, then longer stretches than weeks at a time. Gena Rosa didn't want to have her kids see her like this. What started as an arrangement became something else. The friend and his wife found that they liked having four children in the house, and the twins were happy there. Danny stayed by Generosa's side, rubbing her feet and getting her whatever she needed. He sat with her for hours every day, playing scrabble across the table. It irritated Generosa to know when that she kept losing. She had a college education. Danny PELUSI had a high school dropout's vocabulary and a criminal record, and he beat her more often than not. You're a fucking ignorant high school dropout, she would tell him. Danny just laughed.

35:27 I went to what's a matter you? He'd say. She laughed too. Danny could always make her laugh. So I hate that you're trying to make me feel sympathy for Generosa here, I know. Despite Generosa's declining condition, Danny's legal troubles did not abate. His latest d WY case was moving forward and his lawyers were preparing his defense against a murder charge that everyone could feel coming. Danny had also quietly arranged legal representation for a number of his friends and family members, which was an effective strategy. With lawyers in place, no one would talking. The detectives kept circling, but they couldn't get traction. Jannie ended up pleeing guilty to the d WI and was sentenced to four months in prison. The day to day running of the house and caring for Generosa fell to kay Maine, Generosa's personal assistant, and nanny to the twins. Generosa had originally hired Kay when they were in England. The Youo grew close, and Generosa brought Kay back to the US with her. With Danny and jail, Kay tightened her grip on the household.

36:28 She took over the twins discipline. Bad grades were punished, and chores were assigned. The children despised Kay. They had lost their father, their mother was slipping away, and now a woman they hadn't chosen was running their lives with a firm hand. Alexa and Gregor were happier with the family of Danny's friend, and they spent more and more time there, but they missed their mother and resented what was happening around her. As time went on, the tension between Danny and Kay was palpable. One day, Danny came home and found Generosa unconscious enough on a pin and alcohol in her system. The doctor said to have killed two people. Danny forced her to vomit, and she survived. He turned on Kay, who was supposed to be watching her, to make sure this type of thing didn't happen. According to Danny, Kay was unsympathetic and emotionless, telling him it's time for her to go. Joanne the housekeeper was on Danny's side. She also didn't like how Kay was taking control over the household, and she didn't trust her. One day, Kay pulled her aside and said that Danny told her he killed Ted. Joanne didn't believe her. She thought Kay was trying to set him up. Meanwhile, gen Rosa was increasingly unhappy with Danny's spending. At one point, he took twelve friends to Las Vegas, living like kings for a week.

37:43 Gena Rosa updated her will, reducing Danny's share by two point six million dollars, the amount she calculated that he had burned through his gambling and carousing. So how much time had passed and he spent that much money. I don't think it was a lot of time. I think you can spend a lot of money the week in Vegas with ten guys living it up. You know that's insane it is. Kay told Generosa that Danny was sleeping with a barmaid. Danny vehemently denied it, but it was clear that Generosa was starting to trust Kay while she was losing trust in Danny. At the same time, Gena Rosa updated her will again, this time leaving custody of the twins to Kay. Around the same time, Generosa decided she wanted to move back into the Easthampton Beach House. It was her finest achievement and it was there she wanted to spend her final days, weeks, or months, whatever time she had left. The twins were horrified they would have to live on the house where their father had been beaten to death. They would lose their friends, their school, their routines, and they would be left with Ka.

38:43 They begged to stay and Center Maurices, with Danny and the life they had built there, but Genna Rosa didn't waiver. She slowly grew more erratic and illusional, at times mistaking Danny for Ted. At one point she attacked him with a large ceramic dish, screaming, Ted, you fucking sk once again. These poor twins have been through so much, and it just seems like they were so adaptable too. Like when they moved to Center Mauritius, they got enrolled in public school, which I think is probably the first time they had never been in public school in their life, and it sounds like they loved it, like they were dead friends and they got along great, and ye had just so much that they had to go through. Well, it was said that there was no one else that could take care of them other than k Yeah, was there any other? Well, like what about Sandy?

39:27 So Generosa intentionally kept them away from Sandy. So that's the problem. She wanted to separate them completely from Ted's family. We'll be back after a break. While Danny was locked up on his DWI charge, starting in February two thousand and three, fifteen months after Ted's murder, homicide detectives decided it was the perfect time to squeeze everyone around him in an attempt to reinvigorate the investigation. They arrested his ex wife, Tammy Pelosi, on a charge of felony theft of services. This was from an incident years earlier when they were broke, in which Danny had illegally diverted electrical power to their home. The detectives ran the standard good cop, bad cop playbook, trying to get her to spill what she knew about Ted's murder in exchange for a deal. She swore that she knew nothing.

40:24 The next day, they picked up Danny's friend, Chris Perino. They told him Danny had been talking in jail that he had confessed to the killing. It wasn't true, but the Supreme Court had long since ruled that detectives could lie to murder suspects. Chris denied everything and was released. Others followed, Danny's friends, a cousin. Everyone denied their involvement and denied any knowledge of Danny's involvement. Generos's lawyer filed an eight million dollar federal lawsuit on behalf of Tammy and the others for wrongful arrest, illegal questioning, and intimidation, but the lawsuit didn't slow the investigation down. They were determined to close this case. In June, when Danny was released, police officers were waiting for him outside the prison. They arrested him again, this time for the same felony theft of electricity charge that they had slapped on his ex wife.

41:17 They were doing everything they could to get Danny to break He was released on bail and hurried back to Generosa. He barely recognized her. She had lost more weight, was heavily medicated, and still drinking on top of her meds to dull her pain. She told him that while she still loved him, she didn't want him staying at the Easthampton Beach House with her. That same month, a special grand jury was sworn in and began hearing witnesses and evidence in the murder of Ted Ammon. Prosecutors went to Generosa directly and offered her immunity from prosecution in exchange for her testimony. She was dying, there was no reason to go after her anymore, and they thought she might be ready to unburden a guilty conscience, but still she refused to talk. At this point, I imagined the detectives were getting very frustrated because they really had no physical evidence pointing to anyone. Nobody was talking, Nobody was telling them that Danny had said this or that. Really they had next to nothing.

42:15 Yeah, well, I had thought that Danny had a pretty good alibi too, but you said. He had an alibi. But we will talk about where there might be some holes in that alibi. In July, Generosa changed her will once again. This time in addition to custody of the children, Kay was to receive a million dollars and the right to live in the Easthampton mansion for the rest of her life. The will didn't mention Danny at all. He was cut out completely as part of a post nuptial agreement, though she did give Danny two million dollars for a legal defense fund, which it was looking more and more like he would need. Ted's sister, Sandy, had been trying to reach the twins for two years. She had sent birthday presents for their twelfth and thirteenth birthdays, Christmas gifts, and letters. All of it had either been returned or thrown away by Generosa.

43:05 Alexa and Grego had grown up believing that their Aunt Sandy and Uncle Bob simply didn't care about them. When Sandy heard that Generosa was dying and had named a nanny as the children's permanent guardian, she hired one of the best known family law attorneys in New York and filed for custody. The filing was extensive. It included a psychological evaluation of Generosa that had been conducted years earlier, which had concluded that she suffered from paranoia and an intense hatred of Ted, which manifested in her sense of entitlement, her impulsiveness, her demands of absolute loyalty, and her failure of empathy. Sandy's filing made one thing explicit. She and Bob were not after Ted's money, They just wanted to raise his children. Sandy's lawyers asked a judge to seize the twins' passports because Kay was British and they wanted to eliminate the possibility of Kay taking them overseas. The judge agreed. Although she knew she didn't have long to live, Generosa was determined to fight the custody motion. She even established a foundation that would spend whatever was needed to prevent Sandy and Bob from gaining custody of the children, even after she was gone. In August, Generosa took too many pills and had a stroke. Kay didn't call nine one one. Instead, she called Generosa's lawyer, a deliberate decision meant to avoid publicity. Kay brought Alexa and Grego to their mother's bedside and told them to say goodbye. It was probably the last time they would see her. Then, Kay and Generosa's attorney carried her out to a car

44:37 and drove her to a hospital in Manhattan. Generosa Amman died on Friday evening, August twenty second, two thousand and three. She was forty seven years old. When Danny heard the news, he was angry. He believed that Kay and the lawyers had hastened Generosa's death, but he couldn't prove anything. Her remains were cremated and Danny picked up her ashes from the funeral home. He took them to the Stanhope Hotel. It was where they had spent their time together in the early days when things were good. He carried the box of ashes into the stand Hope and set them on the hotel bar. He ordered a bud light for himself and the Cosmopolitan in a Rocks class, the way that Generosa had liked it. He lit two cigarettes, even though that wasn't allowed, and raised his bottle in a toast to his wife. Someone tipped off the press, who arrived just in time to get the shot. The headline the next day read Pelosi toasts ashes of wife in bar where they met. Generosa's lawyers accused Danny of stealing the ashes. They were supposed to go to k they said.

45:39 Her attorney, Michael Dowd, looked at the photograph in the paper and offered his assessment to the waiting press. That picture says it all. It's Danny with the two things he loves most in the world. Himself an alcohol Danny spent the night in the presidential suite with Generosa's ashes, and then returned them in the morning. Within weeks of Generosa's death, knew lawsuits were being filed faster than anyone could track them. Danny sued to overturn the post nuptial agreement, arguing that Generosa had not been of sound mind when she signed it. JP Morgan Chase filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Danny in connection with Ted's murder. Generosa's estate, valued at thirty five million dollars, was being carved up by litigation before anyone had seen a dollar of it.

46:24 Lawyers were hiring lawyers. It looked increasingly possible that the fortune that Ted Ammon had spent thirty years building would be consumed entirely by legal fees, leaving nothing for anyone. So you can see how Ted's fortune is just dwindling. Here. When he died, his fortune was worth ninety seven million, and now Generosa, who inherited almost everything, her estate was worth thirty five million. It's just, you know, all these lawyers involved, and well, not to mention Danny outspending millions of dollars, it's just it's kind of sad. Ye, the twins remained at the center of it all. A court confirmed Kay as their guardian. Grego was sent to a private boarding school. Alexa stayed in East Hampton with Ka, where she was enrolled in an exclusive local private school.

47:09 Danny chose not to seek custody. He knew he had no chance and he had bigger problems coming. Alexa and Grego wrote a letter to the judge telling him they did not want to live with Kay Maine and didn't want to stay in that house. A hearing was scheduled to determine whether Ka would keep them or whether Ted's sister Sandy and her husband Bob would become their guardians. So did Kay want the children or did she just want to live out Generosa's wishes. That's a really good question. I don't really know what Kay's motivation was here. I get the sense it was more of the latter, that she just wanted to follow what Generosa wanted. So the balance of Generosa's estate that went to Ka.

47:50 No, Kay got a million dollars and she got the right to live in the Stampton House, but everything else went to the kids. Okay, But then there was this fune to set aside for le leg defense? The legal defense was just she had given two million dollars to Danny, so it wasn't it. You had said something about there was a fund set aside for custody. Oh to fight, to fight Sandy from getting custody. Yeah. I don't really know the details of that, but yes. Two thousand and four arrived and the grand jury was still working. Two plus years after tad Amman's murder. There had been no indictments, no arrests, and no resolution. The investigation ground on quietly while Danny Pelosi lived his life. He found a new girlfriend, Jennifer zol Nowski. They went to Hawaii, where Danny proposed and Jennifer became pregnant, and a tourist cruise. During the trip, Danny got into an altercation with the first mate and was arrested for assault.

48:44 It was, for Danny a fairly routine vacation. March twenty second, two thousand and four, Genneros's birthday, the Grand Jury finally wrapped up their work and handed down an indictment. Danny Pelosi was charged with murder in the second to and he surrendered the main pillars of the prosecution's case were straightforward. Danny had purchased at least two stun guns before the murder. The probe marks on Ted's body matched the model of the one that Danny had bought. Danny had been one of a very small number of people who knew about their rapid eye surveillance system and where it was hidden in the house, and someone had logged into that system at two in the morning on the night of the murder, watched the darkened house for twenty one minutes, and then shut it down remotely, and the murderer had known exactly where the system's hard drive was hidden. Danny faced twenty five years to life if convicted. The judge to night bail.

49:42 Given the severity of the charge, and given Danny Pelosi's long and creative history with a criminal justice system, no one was surprised. In April two thousand and four, Alexa and Greg made a trip to visit their aunt Sandy and uncle Bob, accompanied by a court appointed psychologist. I had grown up believing that Sandy didn't care about them, but what they found was different. They loved it there. They decided that's where they wanted to live, with one condition they wanted to be able to be in contact with Danny and his family. Sandy and Bob said yes with supervision. Now they just had to get the courts to agree. Danny's murder trial began in October two thousand and four, three years after Ted's murder. Shortly before the trial began, the prosecutor dropped a bombshell. They had two jailhouse informants who would testify that Danny admitted to killing Ted, not only that he had been trying to arrange assaults on some of the witnesses, was plotting to influence a potential juror, and had even made threats against the prosecutor's children.

50:46 New charges of attempted jury tampering, witness intimidation, attempted assault, criminal solicitation, and conspiracy were added, carrying an additional fifteen years. Danny vehemently denied these new allegations. Prosecution had no order weapon, no eyewitnesses, and no forensic evidence linking Danny to the crime. The main thing they had was his knowledge of their surveillance system at the house, and they had him on tape telling a fellow inmate that he had killed Ted with a baseball bat. He told the inmate that he had been trying to break every bone in Ted's body. Do his injuries did they check out with that? Did they seem like they were caused by a baseball bat? I think all they were able to ascertain was that he was beaten with some blunt forest object, and he had been hit so many times, so I'm guessing it was consistent with a baseball bat.

51:35 But I don't think he said like up to thirty five times he was in the prosecution also had witnesses who testified about things Danny had said to them, including Danny's own father, Bob Pelosi. He told the jury about the wedding. On that Sunday, the day before Ted's body had been found, Danny had pulled him aside and asked him something that had stayed with him, since if someone wanted to get rid of something, what would you do? Bob said he had and asked what his son meant by that he hadn't wanted to know. A friend of Danny's testified that Danny had told her what happened that night. That Gena Rosa had been present during the murder, along with Chris Pirino and Danny's nephew who had driven the getaway car. Danny's sister, who was his alibi, testified that Danny had spent the night at her house that Saturday evening, but he wasn't there the whole night. She said that Danny and his friend Chris had shown up Saturday night, picked up a bag from the house's attic, then took off.

52:30 Danny didn't return until hours later, close to sunrise. The defense tried to convince the jury that Ted was killed by some unknown gay men. Ted had called his girlfriend Laurie that Saturday evening, leaving a message that he was walking on a gay beach and that some men were making him feel uncomfortable. The defense tried to plant the sea that maybe Ted had a tryst with a man that he met on the beach, and that a couple of the guys followed Ted back to the beach house and killed him that night. That didn't explain the surveyor system being ripped out, but their main goal was just a plant sum doubt. As the defense was rabbing up their case, Danny announced he wanted to testify. His lawyers told him not to, but he took the stand anyway, convinced he could charm the jury. It did not go well.

53:17 On the stand, Danny contradicted himself repeatedly. He acknowledged that he had bought a stun gun and that he enjoyed using it on co workers. The prosecutor asked him what he liked about it. Danny chuckled, I like the way they jumped and reacted and said, you fucking asshole. The jurors did not find it nearly as amusing as Danny seemed to. He testified that Generosa had asked him one time whether he knew anyone who would kill her husband or whether he would do it himself. He said that he had turned her down both times. He seemed to believe that this would win him points with the jury, but it didn't. They found Danny Pelosi guilty of murder and this second degree. Afterward, the prosecutor told reporters that Dan had been her best witness. His decision to take the stand had been catastrophic, but it hadn't been surprising.

54:07 Danny Pelosi had never been able to stop himself from talking. It was his own mouth in the end that had done him in. On January twenty fifth, two thousand and five, Danny stood handcuffed before a Long Island judge as the people whose lives he had destroyed got their chance to speak. The twins were fourteen years old. They had lost their father to a murder, their mother to cancer, their childhood to lawyers, in courtrooms and houses they never wanted to live in. Now they stood fifteen feet from a man who they loved but now despised. Greg went first. He was sobbing as he spoke, but his voice didn't waiver. I hope you suffer and go through just as much as my sister and I have. I just hope God can forgive you, because I certainly won't. Then it was Alexa's turn. Mister Pelosi might have had a nice time for the past couple of years spending my parents' money, but that is over now, and I hope he wats and because he deserves nothing better. Danny stood unmoved. When it was his turn to speak. He looked at the twins directly, Greg and Alexa. I never lied to you, guys.

55:10 I had never lied to you, and I'm telling you to your face. I did not kill your father, and you know that. The judge handed down the maximum sentence twenty five years to life. Danny Pelosi was handcuffed and taken away to begin serving his time. In the months that followed, the legal machinery that had been grinding since Ted's death slowly began to resolve itself. The custody battle between Kay Maine and Sandy Williams reached a settlement in early two thousand and five. Alexa and Grego would stay in Huntsville permanently with their aunt Sandy and her uncle Bob. The arrangement that had begun as a temporary visit to Alabama was now their life. The two Ukrainian orphans, adopted into a life of extraordinary privilege, would now live on a tree lined street in Huntsville, Alabama, with a woman who taught Sunday school and a doctor whose truck had a vanity plate that read n Ephroo Nephro I guess he was a nephrologist. Kay received the one million dollars that Generosa had promised her in the will.

56:11 Eventually a settlement was made where she would get an additional undisclosed amount of money for vacating the beach house on Middle Lane where Ted had been killed. The house would pass on fully to his children. In two thousand and five, a made for TV movie called Murder in the Hamptons was released based on the Ted in Generosa Ammon's story. It starred Poppy Montgomery as Generosa, David Sutcliffe as Ted, and Sean Christian as Danny Pelosi. In twenty twelve, eleven years after Ted Ammon's murder, Danny Pelosi sat down with ABC News and shared his version of what happened. He didn't do it, he said, but Generosa did, He told the interviewer. Generosa wanted revenge. She wanted revenge because of that baby. She went berserk, berserk, out of this world, insane, white hatred, psycho killer. He was talking about the child that Ted had allegedly fathered with another woman. In Danny's telling, that was the thing that had finally pushed Generosa over the edge. What happened next, Danny said, began on a construction site while he and his crew were renovating Generosa's Manhattan townhouse. She came down to the job and made an offer to the room fifty thousand dollars to anyone willing to beat up her husband. Several men heard it, and several were interested. Danny said, I got regular guys working for me fifty thousand dollars to go throw somebody a beating. I'm sorry. Everybody was interested in the job.

57:37 Danny said he volunteered himself, saving Generosa the trouble of finding someone else, but she had turned him down. He was on probation for his DWI. She reminded him Ted would call the police and Danny would go straight to jail. So someone else took the job. Danny claims it was Chris Perino, his former employee, who had met with Generosa privately without Danny's nowe and accepted her offer. So if Generosa went into this room full of you guys that are working, did any of them testify? I don't believe any of them testified to that effect. Parino, though, had already told his own story. Two years after Danny's conviction, under pressure from prosecutors, he turned state's evidence. He confessed to driving with Danny to the Easthampton house the night of the murder. He told prosecutors he watched Danny exit the house with blood on him, and that Danny told him he'd had a fight with Ted Ammon and thought he was dead. In a plea deal. Parino pleaded guilty to hindering the prosecution and was sentenced to six months.

58:40 In Danny's version of events, Perino went in not him, and Generosa arranged it not him. He did admit to paying Parino what Generosa had promised. After it was done, Danny said, I'm not innocent and the things that happened after the murder, and this is why I never told my story. Are you buying Danny's new version of events here? I am not? He neither. For years after Danny went to prison, Alexa and Greg lived quietly in Huntsville, going to school and growing up. Then Greg decided to make a documentary. His reasons were personal. He said, we'd hear all these things about my father, gay trists, all this crap. It was absurd, but it really affected the way I perceived my father and mother. Editing the documentary and trying to come to terms with everything was my way of trying to find out who my parents were on my own. He and Alexa visited relatives, and they visited the house on Middle Lane where their father had died, and they went to Ukraine to look for their birth mother. Sadly, they found out that their birth mother had died of alcoholism years earlier, and their biological father had been a one night stand.

59:46 One question not answered in the documentary is whether Generosa was involved in or had knowledge of Ted's killing. Greg and Alexa aren't sure. Greg said there are no answers. The only people that really know are Min, my father, and my mother and Danny, who is a psychopath and is in jail. Alexa added it doesn't really matter. She will always be our mother. A few years ago, Greg posted the documentary to his YouTube channel. We'll share a link in our show notes. I watched it. It was really it was very moving and well done. Yeah, going to the house and kind of all of the you know, they went to the mansion where Ted was killed and all of their things were still there really, you know, the house had passed to them and things were pretty much as they were. And then seeing them to go to Ukraine was really interesting too, Like they found a lot of like relatives and brothers and sisters, half brothers, half sisters and all these people and it was very it was it was super moving.

1:00:41 I will definitely check that out. When did they go to Ukraine before the war started? Yeah, they made the documentary In twenty twelve. Greg is now married. His wife Stacy, went through her own battle with breast cancer and thankfully finished chemo successfully in twenty twenty two. I wasn't able to find as much out about Alexa today. She seems to be a bit more private than her brother. In twenty seventeen, though she did graduate from usc Film School. Greg and Alexa both serve as trustees for the Ammin Foundation, which has around sixteen million dollars in assets and awards grants for various causes. Also in twenty seventeen, Greg and Alexa finally sold the house on Middle Lane for somewhere between eight and nine million dollars. In twenty twenty one, on the twentieth anniversary of Ted Amman's murder, Greg posted this to his Instagram.

1:01:31 Dear Dad, emotions run high on this October twentieth and twenty first of this year of twenty twenty one. You would be in awe of the world we live in. It's been twenty years since you were murdered, and since we last hugged and smiled together. I miss and think about you every day. I love you very much since your murder. The lines in the story have been drawn, twisted and manipulated. Fingers have been pointed, narratives have been formulated and confusion forced, while judgments have been quickly passed to most our story has already ended, or they aren't even aware of a beginning. The groundwork of your legacy was set in glass, not in stone. I will break through it and shine light on your truths. Your son, Greg Ammon, rest in peace. Ted. Well, that is the story of Ted and Generosa, Ammin. I have a few questions for you, as usual. So one is it's kind of a simple question, but why do you think Ted refused to hire a bodyguard despite you know, people told him.

1:02:28 He had told people, you know, she's crazy, I'm scared, She's said she's going to kill me, and yet he didn't hire a bodyguard, which makes me really sad because he could have done it very easily. Yeah, definitely, I wish he would have. He probably thought that he could handle anything that came his way from Generosa Is he had for years, right, Yeah, and he had a security system and maybe he thought that was just enough. Yeah, though it sounds like he thought he was pretty lax about wax about it. Yeah, I think part of it. We talked about this a little bit earlier, but Ted was a very ration analytical type of guy, and in his mind, he's like, well, they're not going to kill me. Because I'm the money maker. Yeah, well not that. Not only that, but they were getting a divorce and she was going to get a whole bunch of money. And I think in his mind, if they killed him, they were going to get caught and they would get nothing. So why would they do that?

1:03:17 But obviously people like Generosa and Danny aren't necessarily thinking in that right type of way. So Danny took the stand against his lawyer's advice because he was convinced that he could charm the jury. I think that's just the kind of guy he was, like he was, you know, he was a charming guy, I think, and probably people he could win people over. But the prosecutor, of course, later said that he was her best witness. So I'm just curious what, like what that says about Danny to you. Well, it sounds like Danny was able to talk his way out of a lot of things throughout his life, even though you know, eventually he he did go. To jail, didn't catch up to him eventually. Yeah, but you know, he just thought he was a charmer and he would always be able to work things out. Yeah. Why was Danny charged with second degree murder? Was there just not enough evidence for a first degree murder?

1:04:02 I guess I'm not really sure what it takes for something to be premeditated. I mean, they knew, assuming it was him logging into the surveillance system. He logged in, you know, at two am or whatever, but I don't think they had any proof that it was something he had been planning for months or years. I mean, he had bought a stun gun, which you could say might have been planning. But in his defense, he was like, I bought that for protection at home. So I think they just didn't have enough to go after first degree. It's interesting that he bought a stun gun and not an actual gun. Maybe he didn't buy an actual gun because he had felony DUIs and he was not able to purchase a firearm. Yeah. Oh, he had a lot of friends. Right, Yeah, I don't really know the story behind that. Yeah, I think the stun gun thing, maybe he just thought it was cool. One thing I think is really interesting about this story is that Generos's mom, who we talked about in part one, Babe, Babe, she had cancer and she ignored it, like she just basically was in denial, I think, and went on and by the time she finally addressed it, it was too late. And really the same thing happened to Generosa. She had doctors sending her registered letters saying, you need to get this checked out, and she just ignored it.

1:05:10 I think, you know, it's weird how her very worst fear coming true, and she probably thought it was her fate and she didn't want to deal with it. I mean, it's such a hard thing to deal with, and yeah, her very worst fear. I would guess that that would happen to her, and then it was happening. She just didn't know how to process it. Yeah, I'm sure that's it. And maybe she thought it was futile too, because while my mom died, you know, I'm just going to die too. I just want to make the most out of the time I have left. Yeah, maybe maybe so, although she did, you know, she was always so angry at her mother that her mother, you know, basically wasted away with this disease. And I think I would I would have thought she would want to be more proactive, But I think it's sometimes hard to escape the patterns that are sort of, you know, instilled in us by our upbringing and our parents. Do you think that Generosa was actively involved in Ted's murder?

1:05:59 Do you think Dan and he did it on his own. I would have to believe that she was involved, right, I. Have to believe she was either involved or had knowledge of it. Maybe she would want to be there. Do you think she would have wanted to be there just knowing how vindictive and who she was. I wouldn't. It wouldn't surprise me if she was there. Maybe she wanted to deliver the fatal blow. I don't know. Yeah. Maybe I wish that she had chosen to talk before she died. I always feel like, if you're you're terminally ill and you don't have long to live, like you would at some point feel guilty and be like, yes, you know, I'm gonna get this off my chest finally. And I wish she had talked to the police. I think there's the hope, though, that your children will still see you as a decent human beings. Maybe they would have some doubt. Yeah, if she admitted it.

1:06:44 Then Yeah, that's again, it's actually a really good transition because I was going to ask you, like, it seems like from watching the documentary that the kids still have a positive view of their mom, Like they seem like they remember her fondly and things like that, and which kind of surprised me a little bit. But maybe that's part of it. Maybe they just I mean, it's their mother, right, so there's that, but maybe they also just don't really feel confident whether she was involved or not. Yeah, it sounds like she well, I don't know if she was a good mom or not, but you know, she did try. She loved them, and she really tried to be there for them, so. Hopefully, I mean, I'm glad that they have fund memories of her. Yeah. Once again, I'll just say how impressed I am that that Greg and Alexa, they seem from everything I've been able to tell, they just seem like they are much more well adjusted than I would think would be possible given all that they've been through. And obviously I don't know them personally, but just watching the documentary, you know, seeing social media and things like that, the fact that they are still managing their dad's or they created their dad, this foundation for their dad, and they're doing good work with it. It really Yeah, it does make me very very happy.

1:07:50 I think sometimes when you grow up in those, you know, hard situations, you have to grow up faster and you have to become an adult a little sooner and you reach maturity fast. Yeah. Last thing, I just wanted to mention. There's obviously a lot of information out there about this case, but I do want to mention my primary source, which is a book called Almost Paradise. The East Hampton Murder of Ted Ammin by Karen Crowley from two thousand and five is a really really good book, really good source of information about this case. I know everyone has been wondering, but I have no update on our subdivision drama situation. Still no reply.

1:08:31 That is disappointing. It is really disappointing. Speaking of neighbors, we haven't watched all of them, but there is a show on HBO right now called Neighbors about like neighbors. At war with each other, like. Super serious issues that are yeah of legal issues and it's kind of crazy. I don't want to give too much away. We've only watched a couple episodes of it. But it's the people in it. A lot of them are literally seeing well. I shouldn't say that they're insane. They're passionate about what they're arguing about. Some other issues are like, yeah, I don't know who's the winner here. Some of them are really hard to tell. Yeah, but it's fun to watch for sure. We mentioned Wynton Marsalis quite a few times in this case. He was kind of a friend of Ted's. This is probably my only opportunity to ever tell my Winton Marsalis story.

1:09:17 Have I told me? Have I told you my Winton Marcellis. I don't know. I'll let you know after you say it. It's not the most exciting story. But before you and I met, I was dating someone else and she and. I I know it was her name Tina. No, it wasn't Tina. He did date like directly before me. His girlfriend was Tina. It was Tara, completely different thing. Tara and I were out to dinner at a restaurant. I lived in Ohio at the time, and Wynton Marsalis was there at the restaurant having dinner. I guess he was in town for a concert and he was eyeing my girlfriend and he actually he got up and he walked past our table and he did one of these how you do and type of thing as he walked past, like in that kind of voice. I was like, did Winton Marsalis just put a move on you? And she was like, yeah, he totally totally did. And that's the end of the song.

1:10:09 Oh, I thought you went to the bathroom and then you you took his head and you slammed him into the sync a few times. No, I wish there was more to the story, but it's just kind of funny. Actually actually, yeah, yeah, did that make you dislike him? Have you never listened to a Winton Marsalis song since then? You know? We talked about this the other day. I think neither of us are big jazz people. I really wasn't the win Marsalis fan before. I wasn't really after. I have nothing against him. I thought you liked jazz. There are some styles of jazz that I am okay with, but it's definitely not my favorite, not one of my. I think if you're playing it, if you're like a musician, I think it's probably super fun. But it seems like most jazz songs could go on for eternity.

1:10:55 Yeah, and it's just jazz. There's such a wide spectrum. Like some jazz I feel like is kind of nice to listen to another it's just very dissonant and very like kind of hurts here yours in some way? Oh okay, Yeah, I hope you haven't offended. You just said probably you emails and hutters too rich that love Mary Kill. We've been making all sorts of enemies lately, but we're not going to talk about that. We court a lot of controversy here. I love well. I have one last thing I wanted to talk about, and this is not maybe it is controversial at all, but you know, they're I. Have found that almost anything that's can become controversial since we've been recording a podcast.

1:11:37 Yeah, we all know about the burger wars that are going on lately. The McDonald's ceo that it all started when he was on video doing taking a bite of their big arch burger. And he had the appeal of I don't know what has zero appeal glue like white glue. It was it was like not enthusiast bite and it was really and and all the other CEOs from all the other fast food companies started doing their own thing, and then the costco CEO jumped in with the hot dog. Yeah, hot dog, I'm responsible for the costcos eating the hot dog. You are. I'm not going to say why you are.

1:12:17 You are responsible for that. I only bring that up because I every like about once a month or so, I just crave a good burger, a good like a fast food burger. And I think this weekend maybe the weekend, and I'm really struggling with which one to go with because McDonald's has this new burger. Burger King has apparently revamped their burger five guys has all this new stuff. So I don't know, what do you what do you think? So that that's your question, My question, which fast food burger should you eat? Eat? Well? Maybe should we give Burger King another chance? We haven't had Burger King in a long long time. Well, let me explain something. Someone someone's probably thinking, Well, you can cook, and you have a kitchen, why don't you I have like certain things that I refuse to cook in our house. Yeah, and like I don't ever fry anything at home. I just feel like it makes the house smelly. We go out to eat enough where yeah, and it just makes such a big mess. So we tend not to cook burgers in the house either, because they're just really messy. You could make a burger on the grill, though.

1:13:13 Yeah, that's true. It's going to be it's actually warming up. So so you're asking me, you're posing the question to be which burger should you eat? Yeah, and I want our listeners to let us know where we should get burgers front too. It's not going to be in time for this weekend. But well, I like to go to like a good dive bar sometimes and get a burger. I think that's the best burger. Yeah, you know, I like when the bun is like toasted a little bit, and you know, I think that's the best burger you're going to get. But if you're saying fast food exclusively, yeah. Well, let's think about the chain, like the chains. That cause you do like the whole char broiled Yeah. Yeah, Wendy's, Wendy's. I don't know, we really don't get Colver's has a good burger. I can't believe this is the question you're to I might have to go get we have and like an old fashioned I don't know if this is how old fashion is, but a and w in our town.

1:14:06 There's not many of them, but it's like a car hop. Yeah, and it's you know, kind of a pull your car up and the Yeah. It's kind of a cute, old fashioned thing, I guess, and so cool. That's probably the closest place to our house to get food really, So yeah, I don't know. I don't know. Rich all right, well, I don't know. Let us know where you stand on the burger wars, and maybe the next time we go get a burger, I'll take our the advice from our listeners. Okay, do you want to talk about March madness at all? We can mention it briefly. I think when this episode comes out for most people on Monday, that will be the day of the men's final. The women's final will have taken place on this Sunday. But it has been really a lot of fun doing our love Mary Kill.

1:14:48 Yeah. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has done that with us. And if you don't know what a bracket is, sorry that we've talked about it so much, but it's just been fun to have, you know, something to do with all of our listeners. So we appreciate everyone I've done anticipated. Bearable though, but other than that, it's been fun. I'm doing okay. Well, I'm bummed because I did. I feel like a misogynist because I did the women's breakup, but I must have forgotten to save it, so I'm not the women's at all. Too bad. No chance of winning the whole thing, well. I pretty much don't have any chance of winning, although I think I'm like tied for fifth place, which feels pretty. But you know that can, that can, that can at any time. So far, so good. Yeah. As always, thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate each and every one of you.

1:15:32 Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemary Kill at gmail dot com. We should probably mention we have birch available if anyone wants merch. Just uh, just message me and I'll tell you where to find it. Until next time. Don't cure a husband, and don't kill your wife. Don't kill don't kill you. I'm sorry, I'm done. Put a fork in me To companion at