Jennair and Mark Gerardot - Part 2

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned and over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife. And some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hello Rich, Hello Tina. How are you. I'm doing good. I'm pretty good too. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. I think spring has finally sprung here in southeast Michigan. It's a beautiful day. Yeah, but no place i'd rather be than right here recording this podcast with you.

0:43 Same. So you came back for part two of Jen Ayre and Mark Girardo, I sure did. Yeah. So how did you sleep last night? Pretty good? Yeah, that's great. How did you sleep? You know? Eventually I slept fine. But Clover, the girl cat, she's a challenge and it's so hard because it's taken us years. I think we've had them for about three years now. Yeah, and it's taken her a long time to warm to us. And she still hasn't warmed to me. I mean she does sometimes so at night when she's being naughty, I don't want to yell at her, although sometimes you will yell at her. Because she just does all these annoying things, like our bed is made of wood, and there's a canopy on top, and the canopy is it can't be more than two inches wide, right, yes, but she jumps from a chair to the top of the canopy and then she just purchased her body there.

1:36 And look, it really does look I'm not exaggerating, like something out of a horror movie. Looks like a gargoyle. Yeah. Well, even like she just kind of glares at us. Yeah, and she does that when she gets mad at me after I won't pet her when I'm trying to sleep at two in the morning. So then she purchases herself up there like a wrestler on the you know, like when a wrestler like dives down. Yeah, and she kept doing that last night to me, and I got really annoyed and I'm like, I really want to yell at her, and then she's scratching at the sheets. So eventually, like around I think three am, she finally left and I was said, good riddance. Somehow I slept through all of that. You're amazing, Well, I do have a snack for you. Our listeners have been spoiling us lately.

2:17 I know, we have kind of a backlog of and sweet. Ashley sent us the snack that looks really yummy, and she wrapped it up so cute with a little bow, and everything got here perfectly fine. I think everyone worries about sending snacks. Oh this might break, and but everything was great. Ashley lives in Arkansas, and she said that these snacks are from Northwest Arkansas, or as they affectionately referred to it, NWA. Okay, so I have some cranberry pecan rolls or pecan rolls for you, and and some wild walnut honey. There's like walnuts and honey. Okay. I warmed them up in the air fire and we can drizzle put a little bit about her. I'm already, but we can chose a little bit swall nut honey on it.

3:02 It looks still was interesting. What did you think of the cranberry pecan rolls and the wild honey. I really liked it. It was delicious. Yeah, I was. You and I were talking the other day because we've had a few listeners send us snacks and we're always a little nervous, like we don't want to dislike a snack. I always like, ten out of ten is the best thing I've ever eatn. It feels like a little pressure, and I was it's so nice. Of people to like take time out of their day, and shipping is really pricey, so it really is amazing. Yeah that anyone sends us anything. Yeah, and so I was a little nervous about this one because I'm not the biggest nut guy, and cranberries I don't really love. But this was really good. The role was just nice and light and flavorful and I love the honey and the.

3:45 Yeah, it was delicious. Thank you so much, Ashley. We really appreciate it. Would you give it a ten out of ten? I would. It was nice too, because it was sweet, but not like overpowering over Oh my gosh, overpower say it overpoweringly? Thank yoush so embarrassing. And it looks like the roles came from stone Mill Bread. That must be their local to Fayetteville, Arkansas. So well, thanks again, Ashley. Really quick, before we get into the case, I'm curious what you guys do with your cats at night, because when we had dogs, we put them in a crate, and you know that was really good for all parties involved. But with cats, you really have no control. If we kept our door closed, they would definitely scratch at it.

4:29 And want to get in. Yeah, for sure. So I'm just curious what you guys do with your cats. Are you ready to get back to Jennaire and Mark? I sure, am? Can you give us a brief synopsis? Jen Are and Mark Girardo had been married for twenty four years and together for twenty eight, with a relationship marked by its share of highs and lows. Mark, often passive, contrasted sharply with jen Ayre, who could be more assertive and even aggressive at times. The couple, without children or much family nearby, were content to focus on their pets, which they both adored. However, when jen Are lost to job and struggled to find a new one, her self esteem began to take a hit. The couple's dynamics shifted as Jennayre's sense of identity eroded. When Mark landed a new job in Delaware, jena Are stayed behind in South Carolina to pack up their life and handle the logistics of their move. This gave Mark six weeks of bachelor like freedom. During this time, he and his thirty three year old boss Meredith Sullivan Chapman began developing a work crush on each other, igniting an affair that would change everything.

5:28 As we left off, Jenayre, ever perceptive, had begun to sense that something was off with her husband, though she couldn't yet put her finger on it. You forget a really important detail in your synopsis. Oh, I'm sorry. They both hate bananas. Oh, I forgot about that, And we both love bananas. And people actually pay money to listen to this podcast. Mark and Meredith exchanged their first I Love you within a month of meeting. It happened in the car after they had just left a basketball game on campus and were inching along stuck in traffic leaving the parking lot. It wasn't planned. Mark just blurted it out. Meredith didn't hesitate. She said she felt the same way. They had sex for the first time that night. But Mark was adamant their relationship wasn't just about the physical connection. Over the course of their relationship, they only had sex a handful of times. Their connection was more than just physical. What mattered to Mark, what he said really drew him in was the emotional connection. It felt effortless, easy, like nothing he'd ever felt before. Pregnancy scare soon followed. Mark's pant was instant visceral, but when the test came back negative, an unexpected sadness settled in. For a fleeting moment, he'd allowed himself to picture it. Tiny hands clutching his finger, Meredith's laugh echoing through a sunlit kitchen with her fatherhood felt tangible, even thrilling. It wasn't like the hollow maybe some day. Jen Eyre had dangled for decades a future

6:59 that always seemed to retreat like a mirage. This could have been real, and part of him wished. It was so remind me. I don't know if we talked about it in part one, but did they did Jennare not want to have children or did they? Were they unsure that they wanted to have children or not. I think they'd wanted children, but they were kind of on the fence about it. And then time just kind of passed and they had a couple of moves, and I think it just never happened for them. Jennare planned to join Mark and Delaware in time for Christmas. He flew back to South Carolina on December sixteenth to help her pack up the remainder of their belongings. She drove the moving truck while he drove her car to Delaware. During this long drive, Mark called his best friend Mike to talk about Meredith. They'd been friends since high school.

7:41 Mike was the only person that Mark could really confide in. Mark was torn. He was deeply worried about hurting jen Eyre. He didn't want to cause her pain, but he also couldn't ignore how strongly he felt about Meredith, how excited he was about a future with her. Do you remember Mike and Mark Berlin? Mike really didn't care for Jannire. Mike didn't hesitate follow your heart. He told Mark, you haven't been happy in years, maybe this is your chance to be. It wasn't the most morally sound advice, but it came from a place of honesty. Mike had seen Mark's unhappiness up close. He knew how difficult Jenniere could be and how disrespected and dismissed Mark often felt in his marriage. And the truth was Mike had never liked Jennire, and maybe deep down, Mark knew that Mike's dislike for Jannaire made it easy for him to say what Mark already wanted to hear Jenneire, since something was off almost the moment she arrived in Delaware. It wasn't just the possibility of an affair, though that crossed her mind. It was the way Mark carried himself distant, guarded, defensive. His energy had shifted. After two months of living on his own, he'd grown comfortable with his newfound freedom. She confronted him, what had changed? Why did everything feel different? He kept brushing it off, insisting nothing was wrong, until she snapped and screamed, just say it, you fucking pussy, and he did quote I went out. I want my independence. The words hung in the air, irreversible. He tried to walk them back immediately, but it was too late. At that moment,

9:14 every alarm in Jennaire's mind went off at once. Since Mark had moved to Delaware and worked with Meredith, he talked about her non stop, how professional she was, how he was learning so much from her, and how upbeat she always was. Jannaire had filed all of this information away until now. She knew, deep in her gut that Mark was having an affair with Meredith, but he adamantly denied it, over and over and over. So Mark had the six weeks all to himself. Is that a dream come true for any man? Not for me? I don't know what you're talking about. Really, No, it would be a fun little vacation to be on your own for a few weeks, but six weeks a long time. I would miss you greatly. Hmm.

9:57 Jannaire was nothing if not resourceful and scorned and all that. This is where the story takes a turn. Jenneire purchased a dozen tiny voice activated recording devices. She planted them in Mark's car and sewed them into the lapels of his suit jackets and pockets of his winter coats. This is illegal in the state of Delaware and probably pretty much every other state, we think, so each night, while Mark slept, Jennaire downloaded the contents of the devices and then re sewed them into his clothing. That must have taken a lot of planning and work and time to make that work. Just to wait. But Jennaire was no expert in spycraft. Most of the recordings she captured were muffled too much fabric, too much background noise, leaving a lot of the recordings distorted like voices underwater. Still, there was one recording that stood out beneath the static. She was certain she could hear moaning and whispered pillow talk. It sent her mind into overdrive. She played it again and again, trying to make sense of it, feeling equal parts vindicated and horrified as her worst fears were realized. Mark really was having an affair with his boss. Jenneyer emailed a former colleague and audio engineer, seeking his help to clean up the distorted recordings. Quote, please keep this between me and you.

11:16 I am recording Mark with this new boss, trying to find out the truth. It's the only act of control I felt I have, and he is denying this affair to protect her reputation because of the conflict of her dating and employee. I need to catch them in the act. We were happily married in November. Before he left. We were excited about a fresh start. I am devastated and heartbroken. Mark has been hugging me and being nice, but he still won't kiss me or be intimate. Even though I make the moves, he almost recoils. Please pray for me. I asked him if he met someone, and he denied it. Please don't tell Mark, I wrote to you. I want to level the playing field of this game. They are playing with me. The audio engineer wished Jenneyer luck, but also made it clear he was not INTERRC in helping her.

12:01 There was no way he was about to get involved in this illegal surveillance, so Jenneyer continued her investigation solo. When Mark said he needed to travel to Philadelphia for a day of work meetings, she knew he was lying. She followed him there. He had meetings in the morning, but the rest of his day was completely open and he spent it with Meredith. Jennier lurked in the shadows. As Meredith and Mark walked around Philly, holding hands and kissing. They looked very much like a couple. She was gutted to see the man she'd devoted twenty eight years of her life to with another woman. She begged Mark to level with her, to tell her the truth that she knew in her soul to be true, but he continued to gaslight her. When Mark eventually returned home that night, Jenneyre wasn't there. She stormed in half an hour later and went straight to bed. Sensing trouble, Mark decided to spend the night on the couch. The next morning, when Mark was making his coffee, Jennier boldly confronted him and demanded to know why exactly he was holding hands with his boss.

12:58 Oh boy, in. This part of the store. I think Jenaire really wants to know the truth. I mean, she's seen the truth with her own eyes, but until she gets confirmation from her husband, she still, I think has some doubt that maybe everything will be okay. Maybe this is just a little fling and he'll get over it and then we'll be okay again. Yeah, so just help me understand something. So he told her that he wanted his freedom, he wanted out. But they're still together. Are they trying to work on things or are they just to get backtracked? After that, he was like, I'm so sorry everything, you know, let's work it out. So now he's just carrying on this affair and lying to her even though she really, deep down knows the truth. And maybe he's lying to himself a little bit here too.

13:39 Maybe Mark continued to gaslight jen eyre telling her that she was being paranoid and making things up. This was a poor decision that led jennayir to extreme lengths to get more proof of Meredith and Mark's affair. One night, while Mark slept, she quietly took his phone and had it cloned without his knowledge. She sent the duplicate to a third party company that could inner and record his calls, texts, and photos. Wow, do you know anything about this? No, I wouldn't even thought that was possible. Yeah, I think she used some device and maybe it was like a thumb drive or something, and yeah, cloned it. Before long, Jenayre had near real time access to his private conversations with Meredith, every word, every message, every shared moment.

14:21 She also stole a pair of his underwear and sent it to a lab to see if they could find DNA evidence of another woman. Wow, she is going deep on this, isn't she. And if that wasn't enough, she put GPS trackers on both Meredith and Mark's cars. And she'd even stolen the keys to Mark's office and rifled through his desk searching for more evidence. Mark would go to bed and then I'm not sure how many times she did this, but she would go to his office. Yeah, you know, unlock it. At the University of Delaware, You would think that they would have yeah, a little secret. Yeah, and she would you know, just look for evidence. Mark's text messages and phone calls proved everything. Jenayir was furious about the cheating, of course, but also about the lies and the possibility of being abandoned. She was being left out to dry. She had just moved to a new city with no job or connections there. She had no close friends, no one to turn to in this most stressful time. As a last resort, her parents would take her in, but that was too depressing to even consider, so jen Eyre went on a war path. She tracked down Luke, Meredith's husband and made an appointment with him using a fake name.

15:28 He was a financial adviser. Okay. Once there, she told him everything. He dismissed her as a crazy woman. She also wrote a letter to Mark and Meredith's supervisor, quote, I want Meredith fired immediately on the morality clause and the HR liabilities. I would like to beat them at this game they are playing. I want to catch her off guard. I want to put a pin in her reputation bubble. Mark is attracted to her drive and success. I used to have this, you know I still have it. I want to give them something unexpected like they did to me. I am sorry for this overwhelming letter. I am sorry to have had to send this letter to you at all. I'm sure it was very uncomfortable to read and you are astounded at even receiving such a personal and torrid thing.

16:11 I'm hoping this won't backfire on me. Thanks for reading it. Please, please, please don't tell Meredith or Mark that I did this or show them the letter. Wow. Imagine you're the HR person at the University of Delaware and your going through your mail and you get this letter. Yeah, it would be so shocking. Yeah, that would be shocking. I just I think her approach was not the best approach. Like writing the letter, I can kind of understand that, but she just went into all these kind of like personal details about her that I think she could have just left out and said, look, you have two employees that are having an affair that is inappropriate and you should know about it. I think it signifies the decline of her mental health. Yeah, it sounds like good.

16:51 Yeah, she's kind of slowly losing it. Yep. Around Valentine's Day, jen Air told Mark that she knew everything. She told him how she had cloned his phone, though she never mentioned the listening devices in his clothing or the GPS on his car. Jenayre presented him with irrefutable evidence. Mark finally admitted that he had been lying and deceiving her for months. He and Meredith were in love. They argued through the night and eventually agreed to visit a marriage counselor. Though they had different motives. Jeneyre wanted to repair their marriage and Mark was looking for an ally to help soften the blow. Jenayre's takedown attempts succeeded in their intended damage. Luke Chapman was slow to accept the truth of Meredith's infidelity, but he was eventually convinced by the onslaught of evidence which Jeneyer kept emailing him.

17:37 He filed for a quick divorce, and an HR investigation was launched by the University of Delaware. In the meantime, Meredith and Mark would no longer be working together. This didn't stop the affair, of course, It just made Meredith and Mark's lives a little bit harder. In what was presumably an attempt to publicly shame her husband, Jeneyre took to the app next door and posted publicly quote please reckon men an excellent marriage counselor for a couple on the brink of divorce. We will need someone experienced in dealing with issues including infidelity, depression, being accountable for actions, et cetera. Someone with a good track record of helping couples communicate better to rebuild the relationship or even come to clarity about its probability of success.

18:19 Can you imagine seeing this on the next. Door I app That would be like the highlight of my day. And he'd be like, You'd be running up stairs like, oh my god, we gotta have to show you this, And then we'd be like, which neighbor is it? She sending it to the family chat? Oh my gosh, that's crazy. So Jenny are is mental health obviously is deteriorating. But it's tricky to see that because like this writing everything she writes, she's a very intelligent woman. You know, it sounds cohesive and you know she's making her point, So you know, it's just kind of hard to reconcile her to sent into madness versus she's just really angry. Yeah, for sure. When Mark and Jennayer went to the marriage counselor, he came to a conclusion that Jenair did not like. While Jennayre was intent on fixing the marriage, Mark was more hesitant. He was in love with Meredith and didn't want to give that up. The counselor advised that they should not ignore the fact that Mark had fallen in love with someone else, and that staying in the marriage might not be the best course of action for either party. They ought to at least consider divorce.

19:20 Jen Eyre was livid. She felt the counselor was a misogynist and was basically giving Mark permission to cheat on her. She stormed out and called the counselor a chauvinist quack. We'll be back after a break. Even though he had initiated divorce proceedings and was convinced by all of the evidence, Jennaire was still emailing Luke constantly orderline harassing him. She kept updating him on Mark and Meredith's activities. Here are a couple of the emails. Quote. Mark is turning fifty in October and having a mid life crisis. Obviously, when he got here, he became obsessed with working out, which he did about once a week before.

20:05 Now he works out every other day, if not daily, To keep up with Meredith. He sends selfies of his progress now and then so she can compliment him. Wonder what she's gonna think of his older man's stuff, like his hair crowing out of his ears and no, that's a low blow quote. Grab her underwear from today, I'll go have it tested with Marx. Hurry before she gets rid of evidence. He immediately changed when he got back from work and his underwear was stained with something that should not be there during the work hours. Oh, sorry for that. This is reminding me a little bit of the show we're watching right now, Enlightened. Laura Duran's character just seems like her mental state just seems very similar to Laura Durn's character in that show.

20:51 I think you mean in the scenes where she's kind of descending into her own mental breakdown. Yes, exactly at the beginning of the show. I think most of the show is about her, her kind of her journey to wellness. Jenneara and Luke spoke several times a total of ninety eight minutes. Once his divorce was final, he told her to stop contacting him, which I totally don't blame him. He was trying to move on and she should do the same. He also warned her not to get into any legal trouble, as illegal recording as a felony. Eventually, Mark discovered that he was being bugged right before heading into a therapy session. He felt something bulging in his jacket. Thinking it was an anti theft device, he sliced open the seam and found the recording device. Jannier had been regularly sneaking into the closet while he slept, removing the old bugs and replacing them with freshly charged ones. Mark was understandably very upset about this. On his way to therapy, he stopped by merediths and showed it to her. She immediately said that they ought to press charges. She knew the Attorney General personally, so she could make it happen fast. The bugs were also picking up ancillary employees of the university, a subsidized government institution, so it was doubly illegal. Mark shared her anger, but calmed her down. He didn't want to put Janniir in jail. He didn't think that she was violent or dangerous, and he felt guilty about how everything went down. They needed to keep cool heads and make sure that Jannire would still be able to find employment so she could eventually be independent, and a criminal

22:21 record would make it all more difficult. Mark brought up his discovery of the recording devices in therapy. Jannier was not apologetic, but acquiesced when the therapist said that she absolutely needed to stop sewing bugs into Mark's clothing. She promised she'd stop recording him, but she did not actually stop. She knew that Mark wouldn't tell her the truth unless she shoved proof of it in his face. She would ask Mark about their sex life. How many times did he and Meredith have intercourse? What were all the dirty details? Mark refused to tell her. He said it couldn't possibly do her any good to know that. She saw it as just another omission, just another life. In her mind, there was no other way she had to record him.

23:04 In fact, she actually started going even further across the line. I don't understand at this point why they are still even together, Like, why haven't they just severed it and said let's get a divorce. And it just seems like from both sides it's just not I know it's not going to. End well, but yeah, I know when women are being cheated on, they want to know every detail like this is normal behavior. They want to know how often you know? Was it better? Why do you want this woman? I know that you know some of the things that Jennaire is doing are normal in this case. Yeah, for sure. Mark handled the situation about as poorly as any person could. Basically, he didn't know what he wanted. He was scared of hurting anyone's feelings or breaking any hearts. He actually wanted both Meredith and jenneyer. He wanted to keep living this double life. The indecision drove jennayre nuts. It became this endless circle. She would eventually get so tired of the stress she told him to choose between them, and he would say, quote, well, if you're gonna make me choose, then I want Meredith. She'd then beg him not to leave her, and they'd go back to this unsteady truce.

24:08 The psychle war Jennier's psyche down before this, she was never stable per se, but she was functional. After going through Mark's affair, something snapped well. I can concur that Mark handled the situation about as poorly as anyone could. So one night, jennayre thought she had a brilliant solution and She floated the idea to Mark, what if he accused Meredith of sexual coercion. She was his boss after all. That way he would be able to keep his job amid the HR investigation and get a financial settlement from the university. If he could only throw Meredith under the bus, she would be fired and out of their lives forever. Well. Mark was gobsmacked. He refused, which upset Jennaire and made her even angrier. But neither Mark nor Meredith would have to worry about being fired. They had both been reprimanded and Mark no longer reported to Meredith. But Mark soon found a new job at a luxury resort company with a added benefits. He would get two free vacations per year with a plus one included. He was already planning on taking Meredith somewhere. Sonny and Meredith had been offered a new job at Villanova University as the assistant VP of Marketing and Creative Services. However, it wasn't all smooth sailing ahead. Mark told Meredith that once they started their new jobs, they needed to take a break from each other.

25:22 Quote ninety days tops, you only had the time to get settled at the new job. Anyway, and I need time to lend things right with Jenayre. I need to do this and if I don't, I'll regret it later. He needed to give his marriage one last try again. He was sending both women mixed messages, and neither were happy about it. When Jennaire learned about Meritith's new job at Villanova, she tried to get her fired from that job too. She sent a letter similar to the one she'd sent to the University of Delaware quote, I implore you not to hire Meredith Chapman resinned while you still can the offer you just gave her as your next assistant vice president of Marketing Creative Services. Meredith Chapman is having an affair with the married man my husband. You should consider a more honorable and moral candidate. There has to be a better person out there for this role.

26:09 Please please, please don't tell Meredith that I did this or show her the letter. This is not a joke. I'm a real person. Villanova ignored the letter, writing it off as the rambling is of a crazy person. But then Jennayre's cyberstocking and online harassment of Meredith intensified. Shandeira felt her grasp on Mark loosening, and her mental health further deteriorated. She started recording videos of herself, got wrenching displays of alternating ranting and sobbing directly into the camera about how sad and angry she was. She was clearly a broken woman. Again. I talked about this in the last episode. But in the podcast Bad Bad Thing season one, they have a lot of Jennaire's recordings and I didn't include them, but I encourage you to go listen. They did a fabulous job on the podcast and it really shows her descent into insanity. I guess in the videos Jenny Are confided to the camera how pathetic she felt the thought of re entering the dating world. That her age terrified Jennyre. She was deeply self conscious about her appearance, convinced that this her aging body, her insecurities, they were the reasons that Mark was leaving. In her mind, he was trading her in for a newer, younger, fitter version.

27:21 And I need to say here that Jennyre was abuse. She really was a beautiful woman. They were both beautiful. But you know, I understand her, you know, insecurities. Yeah, but she still had a lot of life to live. Yeah, for sure, Meredith seemed to embody everything. Jenneyre feared that she wasn't. She ran every day, radiated energy and ambition, and had that effortless, youthful glow. Jennayre felt that she had long since lost. It felt like an unfair competition, one she never had a chance of winning. Jen Eyre saw herself as someone with no real skills, no future without mark. She feared she'd be reduced to an invisible, aging divorce ae, stuck behind a cashier counter, slowly fading into the background of a life that she no longer recognized.

28:04 Their marriage counselor assured her that she still had a bright future ahead of her and that there were plenty of opportunities for her, But she just didn't believe that. At forty seven, Jenayre was a beautiful, intelligent, funny, and fiercely determined woman, but years of setbacks and disappointments had chipped away at her self worth. She no longer recognized these parts of herself. All she could see were the cracks. Even though she was already aware of the affair, Jeneyre couldn't stop herself from planting more bugs and continuing to spy on Mark's phone calls and text messages. She was still unemployed, so she had a lot of time on her hands to stew to let her mind wander and explore the worst possible outcome. The constant checking of Mark's personal communications had become an obsession. She needed to know everything.

28:49 She needed proof that Mark didn't love her anymore, even though he still told her every day. Since Jenneyre had let it slip that she had had his phone cloned, she noticed the messages between Meredith and had become more chaste and perfunctory. It was fishy to Jenneyre. One night, while Mark was sleeping, she lifted his finger to his phone and unlocked it. She found a new application that she had never seen on his phone before. Snapchat. Oh boy, every parent's worse nightmare. These were communications that the cloning company couldn't trace. Jeneyre discovered explicit photos, intimate suggestive images exchange between Mark and Meredith. Alongside them were passionate declarations of love, raw and breathless, the kind of words that once might have been meant for her with Snapchat. Don't things disappear.

29:36 After a while, You can save them? Okay? So he must have been saving things. In his conversation with Meredith. Okay, on March fifteenth, twenty eighteen, Mark found another listening device sewn into the lining of his jacket. A fight erupted. Jennyre and Mark fought a lot, but this one was a blowout. Mark didn't usually get angry, but he was overcome with rage on this particular night. She had promised to stop recording him, and he had taken her at her word quote. I thought we were done with this shit. Is this all you do all day? You're supposed to be looking for jobs, trying to make a go of it. If this is what you've become, if this is all you can do, then you are nothing to me. Mark flipped their coffee table over and then stormed out. He went to meet Meredith for a drink to cool off.

30:18 So some of these conversations were actually recorded, oh, because she was also recording their conversations. I don't think it was necessarily intentionally, but you know, she's recording devices all over okay, so she was on tape quite often. Two okay, interesting, jen Air filmed the more videos of herself ranting to the camera. They are dark and disturbing foreshadowing of what was to come. Quote. If I had a gun, I would kill her right in the face, right between her eyes, and then I would kill me. He can't have her, and he has to live with that for the rest of his life. I tried. I couldn't get a gun. I'm not a resident. I couldn't get a driver's license. Just got my birth certificate to do that and wait the waiting period out. That night, Jenna Air went up to the top floor of their apartment building and opened a window. She took a picture of the view and sent it to a former coworker, a last cry for help before she jumped. She heard rustling.

31:10 A neighbor came out to investigate the noise. She was suddenly overtaken by fear. She didn't want to be institutionalized. She ran back downstairs. When Mark came home, Jenayre told him that she had nearly taken her own life. Then, in a sudden burst of panic, she announced she was going to try again and bolted for the door. Mark caught her, wrestling her to the ground, holding her as she fought against him. He spoke to her gently, trying to anchor her. Eventually she stopped struggling. She looked at him and pleaded, please don't institutionalize me. Mark promised he wouldn't take her to the hospital, but only if she agreed to get help. She needed to talk to someone outside of marriage counseling, a therapist, maybe try medication, and she needed to call her parents and tell them what had happened. The next morning, a coworker she had confided in, the one that she had sent that photo to, told her that the same thing. Call your parents. Jen Eyre began taking antidepressants, but didn't like how they made her feel foggy and detached. She called her parents, told them about the scare, but insisted that she was fine now that she didn't need them to come. On March twentieth, Jennair drove to the gun store where she bought a Torus Tracker three fifty seven. Then she signed up for lessons with a professional so she could learn how to use the weapon. She began going to the shooting range regularly to practice firing the revolver. She went three times later.

32:31 People were most shocked by this. For her entire adult life, Jenayre was a pacifist. She hated guns. Sometime not long after, Mark went to Starbucks at night. He claimed to be preparing for a job interview. A few hours later, jennayre realized the Starbucks would be closing soon. She was certain that she was being duped again. She decided to drive there, but of course Mark wasn't there. Next Door to the Starbucks was a wine bar. She could see them through the front windows. Jenayre marched in and confronted Meredith and Mark, looking cozy at a table for two, sipping on the red wine that they both loved so much. This was the first and only time Meredith and Jennayer met face to face at least prior to the upcoming incident. On April twenty third, She tried to make a big scene and loudly shouted at Mark come home now. Mark didn't budge.

33:20 He said that he'd be home when he was finished. Jenayre leaned into Meredith's ear and whispered, there's a special place in hell for women like you. Incense. She stomped off. Meredith was left shaking. Mark ran out a few minutes later and went home to do damage control. Meredith stayed behind, having another drink to calm her nerves. The bartender told her that woman seems unhinged. Another patron at the wine bar happened to be an attorney and recommended to Meredith that she seek a restraining order against Jennare. The next morning, Meredith noticed deep key gouges all the way around her car. Her now ex husband was among the many who pleaded with her to seek police protection against Jenney.

34:00 However, you think about Meredith, because she's the other woman, This must have just rattled her so bad. Oh yeah, I'm sure. And it was just like this incessant barrage of one thing after another. Yeah, that's got to be incredibly stressful and scary. Mark tried to keep the peace. He told Jena Air to stay away from Meredith, but he begged Meredith not to get a restraining order. He didn't want that showing up on jen Ayre's record. She was already having trouble finding a job as it was. On March third, Jenayre took half of her and Mark's liquid assets and moved them into a new bank account. She began seeing Sheila Brennan, a divorce coach. She was part therapist and part divorce lawyer. She specialized in guiding people through their separation and divorce.

34:44 Sheila noted that Jenayir was definitely emotional, but she didn't necessarily strike her as more unstable than any other person going through a difficult separation with someone they still loved. But Jennare was definitely more unstable than your average person. A. She had begun to work on a final statement, a suicide letter slash manifesto. We don't have the whole thing, but here are some excerpts. Quote. Guys, I'm not going to write that letter, the kind that looks back on our lives together and great memories and how much I'm sorry for doing all these things. I'm sorry if you need it. I live to lie this entire marriage. I feel so foolish for devoting my entire life to it.

35:24 Now I'm here because I was so stupid in love and careless with my own life, and I have nothing left to give. I just want to be gone clean, slate this uphill road. Trying to just survive and heal and even assume I will find a great love again is bullshit. I don't have a chance in hell. We all know what happens to older wives. They hardly ever get their lives even close to what they once had, and usually live a lonely life. There's no great love that comes afterwards, and I don't have kids or grandkids to get lost into. I'm so ugly and old. I look so bad for my age. I look like an old, wrinkly lie. No amount of exercise or eating right is going to help that. I'm so ugly and unattractive. I can't stand looking at myself in the mirror. I can't blame Mark for running away because I look like shit.

36:11 I see the future and it is bleak. I have been broken and cannot be repaired. He took the best years of my life. As much as these selfish assholes of excuses of human turds deserve each other. I need justice for my pain and destruction. Their immoral, unethical, and cruel actions have consequences. Mark and Meredith cannot get away with this. It's really sad. It's very sad. Although Jenneire had expressed her anger to Mark, she'd been masking the depth of her resentment and rage. No one fully grasped how much darkness she'd been carrying, how deeply it had taken root. It was at a catastrophic level. To those around her, she appeared wounded, maybe even lost, But behind her eyes, something far more dangerous had begun to take shape. No one knew what she was, maybe not even herself. On April sixth, twenty eighteen, Mark spoke to a divorce attorney, as both Meredith and Enginaire were getting very tired of the double life Mark was living.

37:11 They were both in agreement about one thing. He needed to at least consult a divorce attorney. When he finally sat down and explained the situation, the divorce attorney was stunned that Mark had waited so long to see her. I am also stunned. She told him that this situation was borderline abusive, potentially dangerous. The marriage was irretrievably broken, Marriage counseling was a waste of everyone's time and the marriage immediately, and consider filing a PFA or protection from abuse order, which I think as much to be what they called it in Delaware, we would call it a restraining leuder. The divorce attorney implored Mark to do this. He waved the warning away. He knew Jennyer. She had a sharp tongue, but she was not violent or dangerous. I think one of the most important things that we have learned as we have done this podcast is so many of these situations like Chris Watts, he had no history of violence, he had no arrest record. You know a lot of these people.

38:07 It's the same thing. So just because someone has no history of violence is not an indicator of the future. Right, We'll be back after a break. This episode is going to be a little longer, I think. So we have halftime snacks. So one of my favorite people in the world, Yea, our lovely daughter went to Louisville on a little spring break and brought us back these cookies. And because we've had a lot of listener snacks and sometimes they've been sitting around for a while and she's a little angry at us for not eating the snack. So she brought us these cosito cookies. Is that how you think you would say it? K I Z I T O. And she said they were just kind of all over the area.

38:58 Really back, we have white chocolate chip it looks like a ginger snap, a peanut butter sugar cookie, a chocolate chip cookie, and an oatmeal raisin. Wow, which one would you like to try? I would probably go for the peanut butter. Okay, all right, we'll be right back. Well, that was a very good little cookie. It was really good, which was not little. A'm on the back it says my name is Elizabeth Casito. I was born under a banana tree in Africa. My father taught me the business at his bakery when I was just a little girl. This family tradition came with me to America when I was just seventeen. The goodie you were enjoying now was prepared by hand at my little bakery in Louisville, Kentucky. Try the other scrumptious treats our family whips up every day.

39:48 We mix my father's legacy into every single batch. Thank you. Yeah, it was really good. It's lovely. Yeah, very good. If you were in the Louisville area, I would definitely grab a cookie. Thank you, lovely daughter, for thinking of us while you were on your little trip. While he didn't file a PFA, the attorney finally convinced him to file for divorce, but Mark had to wait for May when he met Delaware's six month residency requirement. When he left the attorney's office, Mark called Meredith, who was thrilled to hear he had finally made up his mind. Next, he called Mike, who was also very happy for his friend. Mike thought Jenneyer was terrible for Mark, and he was believed that the toxic relationship was finally coming to an end. So this was part of the problem. I think that they had both moved to the state before they had residency, so even if Mark had wanted to file for divorce, he wouldn't have been able to.

40:37 That's interesting. Yeah, I didn't realize there was a time period that had to pass before he could do that. When he broke the news to Jannaire, she didn't react how Mark had anticipated. She cried when he told her, but she seemed resigned to the fate. She sat him down the next morning and set some terms for the remainder of their time together, prior to actually filing the divorce paperwork. She called it the wind down period. Would continue to live together until their lease ended on May thirty. First, they would spend as much time together as possible. They would go for walks, watch their shows, and have dinner together. She wanted him to keep his contact with Meredith to a minimum, and anytime he was going to see Meredith in person. Jannaire insisted that she needed to know when it was happening. Mark agreed to all of the terms, Relieved that Jannire seemed to be taking it so well.

41:24 He only took issue with her last demand. She wanted sole custody of their dog Huk and their cat, Gipsy. He didn't care much about the cat, but he loved Huck and didn't want to live without him. They argued fiercely, but eventually Mark relented. He was so tired of living with Janiere that he agreed to it. He would trade Hauk for. His freedom, and it seems like the least you could do, Mark right. What Mark didn't know was the night before, while he slept soundly on the couch, Jannire had stood over him with a gun in her hand and filmed the moment. In the video, the barrel was aimed at his head. She pulled the trigger, the empty click out into the quiet room. The gun wasn't loaded, but she continued to pull the trigger over and over, living out her fantasy of ending his life for the pain he'd caused her.

42:10 In addition to seeing her divorce, coach Jenneyer also went to a support group for divorced women. She came back home crying. Consistent with such experiences throughout her life, Jennier hated all the women there and couldn't stand the idea of becoming one of them. Her identity was so tied up in her relationship with Mark, the idea of being a divorcee was very upsetting to her. She called her Aunt Rose, who had long since been divorced. Jenniyre asked her quote, how long did it take you before you felt better after the divorce? Aunt Rose responded that it took her ten years before she felt herself again. This was not what Jenny wanted to hear. She didn't have ten years to waste. A plan had been taking shape for some time in Jenniyer's mind, but now it's solidified into the only path. Jenniere felt she had left. There was no turning back. She went to Cole's and perch a black hoodie, black joggers, and matching running shoes, remniscent of the time she dressed in all black to free the trapped squirrel from the clutches of her neighbor. This wasn't a rescue, though, Jannaire also purchased a black wig and rented a sleek black Cadillac without Mark or Meredith knowing.

43:16 She had placed a tracking device on Meredith's car weeks earlier. That's how she found her new address in the upscale Mainline neighborhood of Philadelphia. Mark had even helped Meredith move in just days before. Janneire drove through the area more than once, carefully studying the streets, watching the patterns of Meredith's neighborhood. She wasn't just gathering information, she was plotting. Here's more from Jennaer's manifesto that was now twelve pages long. Quote. Mark has become quite defiant and acrimonious and near violent in his attempt to be with Meredith and start his life with her. He hates me so much now and is becoming so mean. He's now calling me a lazy freeloader with no intention of getting a job and taking full advantage of him. The Allen Loney dis discussion turns him into a violent freak. He's gonna screw me. I need to make my own justice. It's the only way to set me free of this pain. It really is.

44:08 He did this to me. He cannot get away with his unspeakable treatment. He is so inhumane that he deserves to be hurt in return. He cannot have a beautiful, exciting future and life with her at my expense. He does not get to replace me. She does not get to have all the things in common and all the connected experiences that are exactly like the ones Mark and I had. He does not get the right to call her the loving pet names that he used to call me. She does not get his undying love and attention and smiles and listening and encouragement, support and protection when he should have given that to me. He does not get to be loved and sexually fulfilled by her when he should and could have been from me. I hope, I hope his dick falls off from her skinky mess. Oh my spirit is gone. Don't you people understand that I'm not worth it anymore. I have nothing left to offer.

44:57 Let me go. She's a parasite, a blood sucking, life sucking parasite, and she needs to be destroyed. It's all I can think about. I just want to blow her face up and destroy her. I want Mark to have the lasting memories of the visuals of us. Both like that it's all I dream about. I was scoping out her house. Her house is situated weird in the back behind other houses, with a long driveway and has a lot of windows that I might not be able to do if there as I wanted. I really can't hide while or surprise them without getting caught. I can't have them see me and call the police before I can do what I need to do. I may need to do a phil Brynn Hartman if I run out of time, which sucks because Meredith needs to be erased and Mark should not get off that easy. So when she says she wants to do the philiprin Hartman, I think she means like she would kill him or kill herself. It goes on like that for a while. She's kind of talking in circles, repeating over and over how much she hates Mark and Meredith and how she saw what was about to happen next is a form of justice. She was consumed with getting justice. One of the more disturbing aspects of the letter, other than all of them drut talk, which is pretty disturbing, was about her cat Gypsy quote, please, if nothing else, get Gypsy. I know you will be appalled at my request, but please, as lovingly and peacefully as possible, please put her to sleep. This request is an act of love. I'm Gypsy's human, her only human.

46:16 We are utterly bonded like no other creatures, and she will be beside herself without me. I cannot tolerate the thought of her being with any strangers and without me. I know you will think this is an awful request and what kind of terrible person I am for putting down this healthy cat. But this really is the right thing to do in her case. It's really sad, isn't it. Yeah, the whole thing is very sad. The morning of Monday, April twenty third, twenty eighteen started like any other for forty seven year old Jenaire and forty nine year old Mark Girardo. Jenayir was up by five point thirty working on her laptop, sending emails and searching for jobs, while Mark walked huck showered and dressed before he gave jen Are what would be a final kiss on the cheek and said I love you before he headed out the door.

47:00 Jenayre and Mark had plans to meet for dinner later that night. Mark's first stop was Starbucks. He bought two coffees, one for himself and a Grande Blonde roast with extra soy for Meredith. He texted her that he was on his way with coffee. Meredith texted back, quote, huge boyfriend points love you can't wait to see you. Mark only had a couple of minutes to spare, but seeing Meredith at the start of his day felt worth every second. They had both started their new jobs the week before, so neither of them could be late. He couldn't have known it would be the last time. In the years that followed. He would hold on tightly to the memory of that brief moment, their final kiss, Grateful that he had seen her on that day. Mark wrote in his book, quote, we were so head over heels in love it literally hurt for us not to be together.

47:47 That's how I feel about you, sweetye Pie, every second of the day same. Jen Eyre had an appointment scheduled later that day with her divorce coach. She sent her an email to cancel and explained, there's not much to talk about. Then, Jeneyre did laundry, cleaned the apartment, and made her and Mark's beloved Golden retriever huck his special food, boiled chicken hearts and intestines, turmeric, wild rice, and Brussels sprouts. She carefully portioned the food into seven containers and put it into the refrigerator. Her last task was to put her financial papers in order and finish writing a twelve page letter to her family explaining why she did the horrible act that she was determined to accomplish. Later that day, at about noon, Jeneayre set out on her final errands, wearing a dark wig, black joggers, a hoodie, and black sneakers.

48:36 She went to a deli that she had been wanting to try for a while and bought an eighteen dollars lunch. Then Jeneayre went to the shooting range one last time and spent an hour perfecting her aim. At one forty nine, she called spy Tech's technical support line. She talked to them for twenty eight minutes. We'll never know why she called in what was discussed, but she had purchased a GPS device from them for five hundred dollars. At two forty she got gas and then had a three minute call with her mom. At three pm, she drove to Meredith Sullivan Chapman's house. She parked her rented black Cadillac two blocks away. To gain entry to the house, Jenayre brazenly broke a glass panel on the front door, reached inside, unlocked it, and stepped inside. She found a broom and dustband and carefully cleaned up the shards of glass. Nobody would have noticed, as the door was covered by an enclosed porch. The house was empty, Meredith was still at work.

49:30 She had several hours to wait before Meredith would be home. She probably snooped through Meredith's house, trying to get a better sense of the woman who her husband was leaving her for. Then she sat down and waited. She used her time to respond to all the messages wishing her luck with her surgery. This was a surgery that she had scheduled for the next day. At five point forty two, while leaving Villanova for the day, Meredith made her final Instagram post, a selfie with the caption quote, couldn't be more excited to be Villanova's new assistant VP for Marketing and Creative Services. Just a week on the job, and I'm already feeling the love from hashtag Nova nation. Meanwhile, Mark drove to the restaurant where he was meeting Jennyre.

50:12 The restaurant was near Mark's new job. Taking advantage of the warm spring day, he sat outside in order to drink. He allowed himself a minute to relax in the sun, thinking that soon he would finally meet the six month residency requirement and he'd be able to file his divorce paperwork. May tenth couldn't come soon enough. He and Jeneyre were still in the marriage wind down stage that she had insisted upon. He was trying his best to be decent to her. He had agreed to support her until she found a new job and a place to live. The dinner out was Mark's attempt to calm Jennire's nerves and distract her from the next day's surgery. She'd likely be housebound in the days following the procedure exploratory with the possibility of a hysterectomy. Her mother planned to drive to Delaware the next day to take care of her. While Jennyre was recovering, Mark two to help care for her.

51:01 He was trying to keep things amiable. Although she'd enjoyed receiving well wishes from friends and relatives, Jeneyre never intended to follow through with the surgery. Minutes before six pm, while Mark waited for Jeneyre, she sent him a text she had made a wrong turn and would be late. He told her that he would order some appetizers. Minutes later, he received another text from her, quote, I'm not coming go home. She attached a picture of what looked like a trash bin on the sidewalk. Mark could just make out a used condom among the garbage. Just after six pm, Meredith pulled her gray Oudy cabriolet into her driveway. She made her way into her house when she was immediately ambushed by Jeneyre with a bullet to her head. Whether it was instant or whether Jeneyre had some final parting words for her rival, whom she hated so much, we will never know. In the immediate aftermath, Jeneyre called her neighbor, whom she had only recently met. In the past few weeks.

51:56 She had confided some of her relationship problems to this name and felt she might be a safe person to talk to. The neighbor didn't pick up, so Jeneyre left a voicemail. She whispered in a haunting voice, I've done a bad thing. Mark was eating his appetizers when he received the following texts in rapid succession, you ruined my life. I hope you never find happiness. Bye Mark. Mark's blood ran cold as he read the messages. He quickly called Meredith, feeling both helpless and responsible. Sitting at the restaurant, unsure of what horror Jeneyre had unleashed on Meredith. She wasn't answering his calls or texts. He bolted from his seat and sprinted out of the restaurant. Mark raced to Meredith's house fifteen minutes away. His phone rang as he sped through the streets. He looked down to see that Jeneire's mother was calling him. He didn't have time to take the call. When he arrived and knocked on the door.

52:49 Meredith didn't answer. Mark walked around the house and peered through several windows before he spotted Meredith lying face down on the floor between the kitchen and the dining room, her phone and key still clutched in her hand. He forced his way inside, panicking and called out to the neighbor, who was watching the scene unfold from his porch to call nine one one. The neighbor, a man named Tim, was on the phone with nine one one when he walked into the house and checked Meredith for a pulse. No pulse, Tim told the nine one one operator. Mark wept over her body and stroked her hair. It took Mark a moment to notice the second body in the room, a dark figure slumped on the carpet ten feet from Meredith. He squinted into the shadows, trying to make sense of what he was seeing. The woman was clearly dead. As the realization crept in horror washed over him. It was Jennyre, dressed in black, wearing a wig, with a single gunshot wound to the right side of her head. Both Meredith and Jennayre's bodies were still warm. Mark hoped that the paramedics could save them, but sadly, both women were beyond saving.

53:52 The two greatest loves of Mark's life were gone forever. Jenayre had shot Meredith on the left side of her head. The bullet lodged in her spine and killed her instantly. Jennayre then turned the gun on herself and shot just behind her ear. She fell to the ground. Just two bullets were shot, ending both women's lives. As soon as law enforcement arrived at the scene, they pulled Mark Gerardo away from the house and rushed him to the station. In those first chaotic moments, police believed they were dealing with a double homicide, and Mark, the husband caught between two women, was their prime suspect. Mark was held for questioning for seven agonizing hours, confined to a small, airless interrogation room, left alone for hours at a time, he was crawling out of his skin. He begged the detectives to leave the door open so he could breathe. He was admonished after he'd wandered into the hallway to sit on the floor, unable to tolerate the closed room any longer. Initially, the police couldn't find the murder weapon. Jannaire had fallen on top of the gun, which cast further suspicion onto Mark. When he was asked whether he had shot Meredith and jenneyre Mark responded they were shot. His brain was so scrambled he hadn't even put together how the women had died. It was a grueling night as the police hammered Mark with questions and treated him like our murderer. He was in shock and grieving the loss of the two women. When the police informed Mark that they were going to search his apartment, he became nervous. What would they find. Did janneyre trash the place or worse, kill his pets, or did she

55:23 leave evidence to frame him. His cell phone had been taken by police, so he had to beg them to let him use their phone to call Jennier's parents. Although Jannaire had never been close to them, Mark cared for them deeply. His own mother had suffered from Alzheimer's for over a decade, and he saw Becky Cox as a surrogate mother. Eventually, the police dragged a landline in and allowed Mark to make some calls, but that by the time he managed to contact the Coxes, they already knew that something had happened. Jannaire had emailed her twelve page manifesto to her family right before she died, but they hadn't yet been made privy to the details's His father, who had long since gotten sober and tried to repair his relationship with his daughter, was distraught. He let out a guttural howl before he said, you broke her, Mark, You just broke her. Squarely placing much of the blame at Mark's feet. Jennire's mother was gentler and kept a hold of her emotions until she got off the phone.

56:20 He said, quote Becky, I'm so sorry. Jenneyre and I we've been drifting for a while now, and I know you have, Becky said, holding back her tears. I told her to go back to Indiana for a while, but she wouldn't. She refused to go. I know she could be so stubborn, Becky replied, sadly. Mark's next call was to Mike, his best friend. As soon as he heard Mike promised he'd get on the next available plane from Key West, where he lived on a houseboat. Eventually, hours later, when Jenneire's body was moved, the murder weapon was found wedged under her body. It was covered with her prints and only her prince, so Mark was free to go on the drive home. Mark was nervous about what he'd find as he unlocked the door to the apartment. Instead, he was struck by how tidy Jenneyre had left everything.

57:04 The dishes were done, the counters were wiped, the floors swept. A batch of fresh homemade dog food for Hawk was sitting in the fridge. A folder with all of their banking information was on the counter. She even left a note next to the bag of cat food that she'd bought a couple of days prior. You'll have to exchange this. I got the wrong one. You can get it from Petco. Thankfully. The police had already been there to search the apartment, but hadn't caused any damaged. However, they had seized all of the electronic devices. We'll be back after a break, why came to say with Mark. For the following week, they spent most of their time in a wine drunk case, hiding from the press, who had swarmed Mark's apartment building.

57:47 As soon as they got wind of the story. They checked into a hotel for the week. The headlines did not make Mark look good. Husband's affair leads to murder, suicide, Former Upstate man's affair leads to ambush killing Pennsylvania wife ambush's husband's lover and kills herself. Mark contacted his friends and told them not to believe everything they were hearing in the news. Although the media definitely got the broad strokes right, he defended Meredith and said she wasn't being treated fairly in the media, Although the errors any articles made were relatively minor. Some of his friends threw their support behind him. Others, disgusted by his behavior, distanced themselves, and Mark never heard from them again. Among the friends that Mark texted were the mutual friends that he and Meredith had shared from the University of Delaware. Days later, Mark was contacted by the university police department and told that he needed to stop harassing his former co workers.

58:42 Mark had lost much more than the two women he loved. Would you turn your back on a friend in this situation. I don't think so. I mean, he definitely bears some responsibility for what happened, but ultimately it was jen Era that did what she did, so I don't think I would abandon him. Meredith was buried soon after the incident. Mark was not welcome at the funeral. Janneire was cremated. Mark picked up her ashes and then gave them to her aunt. Tensions were high, and the loved ones of both women were not interested in standing next to the man who they blamed for the whole messy saga. Mark moved apartments very quickly, desperate to escape both a media scrutiny and also the memories associated with his old home. It was also paranoid about whether Jannire had hidden the last trap for him the next time he opened a drawer or closet when he accidentally set off a bomb. He felt the best way to honor Meredith's memory would be to buy himself a new car, a gray Audi a three cabriolet, the same model she drove.

59:40 What a great way to honor her memory. Mark Mark kept his head down for a while. He started a new job the week before the murder suicide, and went back just a week later. He poured over everything Jannire had left behind on her computer and other electronic devices. There were hours of her confessional videos, bank statements, and hundreds of hours of him, sometimes with Jannia and sometimes with Meredith. Jannire had transcribed all of the audio she'd recorded of Mark, filling twelve note books. He focused on work at his new resort job and on writing a book called A Reparable Three Lives, Two Deaths, One Story that Needs to be told truthfully. Initially it began as diary entries. He shared some of his writing with his therapist, who told him he should try and publish the material. Who knows, he thought maybe it could be helpful for somebody going through a similar situation. A year and a half later, his book was finished. He tried to find a publisher, but nobody wanted it. It's three hundred and sixty seven pages long. In a commentary from our researcher Owen, oh boy, do you feel the link?

1:00:43 I read it and it is very repetitive and definitely self aggrandizing. It isn't an uninteresting read. It's sort of fascinating watching how Mark's mind works, but it's an uncomfortable one. He comes off as kind of slimy. There's just no other way to put It's our ticulate and careful with his words, and pretty skilled at affecting compassion. There's definitely some part of him that wants to make amends and confess all of his sins to the world. There is a part of him that wants to be honest, but there's another part of him that is desperate to deny culpability and frame things in a way where he is the hero, and the book constantly teeters between two different marks. Now that's Owen's commentary, and I agree with it because he seems like he wants people to sympathize with him because he's like, I'm being honest. He talks about this a lot, like I'm really this is the honest story.

1:01:31 This is what happens. But you can tell it's he's looking for empathy. Marky cited to self publish and to donate all of the profits to suicide prevention, but when he tried to make that happen, every single suicide prevention organization refused to touch the money with a ten foot pole. They did not want to be affiliated with him in any way, so instead the profits were donated to a Golden retriever rescue organization, which is also very nice. One of the paragraphs from Jennyer's final notes said quote, I hope the results of what I do lead him to a stressful, guilt and shame wridden existence. I hope all his friends and family reject him. And this really is the whole point. I hope he spends the rest of his miserable life being rejected like I was rejected for jobs, rejected by love, rejected by friendship, rejected by his family, rejected by final financial freedom, rejected by life, over and over.

1:02:25 This is true payback for his projection of me and my love and commitment for us. Well, you can just feel the anger that she has for him. Definitely, she really hated him at the end, but she also still loved him. Here's a quote from the last chapter of Mark's book that indicates that Jennier's wishes may have come true to some effect. Quote, how do you look at someone with whom you've shared half your life and say, Eh, I've had enough, I want something else. The fact is as hard as it is to say and to write, the love I had for Meredith didn't even come close to the love Jennai and I had built and shared. It just didn't. How could it? Twenty four weeks will never be equivalent of twenty four years.

1:03:05 Despite the downs and ups, the suspicions, the mistrust, and the late night, knock down, drag out verbal battles Jennire and I had shared, and the laughter, excitement and intimacy Meredith and I had shared, it just won't. Currently Mark works for a branding agency called BBK and lives in Los Angeles. He appears to have a new woman in his life, a pretty blonde. I stalked his social media and saw a couple of pictures of the of them together. He looks happy, She's very pretty. He did not honor Jennyre's last request to kill Gypsy the cat. I was going to ask you about that. She has since died. Mark had her cremated and her ashes were buried next to Jenneyer. Jannaia Cox Girardo loved birds, the color purple, and motown music. She was innately kind, a pacifist, a lover of animals and nature. Meredith Sullivan Chapman was a dynamic woman with a strong work ethic and an effervescent spirit. A cheerleader for all. She wanted to make a difference the world, and it's very sad that she was taken from the world too soon. Rest in peace, Jennire and Meredith. So when I read Mark's book, I wondered how Jenneyre would feel about it. And here's a quote from her own hand quote, Tell everyone and anyone.

1:04:14 I want everyone to know what they did to me. I want her parents, her grandma, his family, and their coworkers and friends and everyone in Newark, Delaware to know what they did and how they did it, and what they did to me to cause this. I lived alive, this entire marriage. I feel so foolish for devoting my entire self to it. Now I got nothing. I am here now because I was so stupid in love and careless with my own life. After Mark told her that he'd be filing for a divorce as soon as possible, Jenneire wrote, quote, the past twenty four years were a complete waste. All the memories you made are too painful to remember. If only you were dead, at least then I could remember them fondly. Loving someone unconditionally is a true gift, and he shit all over it. I need retribution for what he did to me. He doesn't deserve to be happy with her. He did not return the law and support that I gave him equally. He took and took and took from me. He was selfish and immature and always thought of himself first. We're almost there.

1:05:12 A legal battle over Meredith's life insurance policies ensued after her death between Luke Chapman and her mother. The divorce had been finalized two weeks before her death, but the beneficiary had not been changed. Luke I believe won the court case. Mark has struggled to make sense of what happened. And his part in it. He began drinking heavily and is now in AA. He now lives in Los Angeles. I wanted to go through and just list all of the crazy things that Jenneira did. She illegally recorded Mark and Meredith. She put trackers on their cars. She called and emailed Luke several times. She called the University of Delaware, she called the Villanova University. She sent Marks underwear for DNA analysis. She stalked them both in person. She also stalked Meredith's house. She broke in Mark's opice at University of Delaware. She spied on Meredith like with binoculars. She cloned Mark's phone. I'm probably missing a couple of things, but that was really intense, wasn't it.

1:06:11 Well, Yeah, for sure. She was obviously, like really obsessed over the whole thing and couldn't get it out of her mind. Do you think if Mark had leveled with Jenaire, would there be a different outcome? Possibly? I mean, for sure, there possibly would have been, and it would have been a much better approach on his part to just, you know, level with her and get it on the table and make a clean break of it. It just seems like he was so indecisive. He wanted he kind of wanted the best of both worlds. He didn't want to leave jen Eyre behind, but he didn't want to leave Meredith behind either, And so, like we talked about earlier, he handled the whole thing really poorly. And there's no way to know if there would have been a different outcome, but there certainly would have been a much better chance for a different outcome if he had been much more upfront.

1:06:55 Yeah, definitely, So you think he was culpable. He has some. Lam in this. Sure, I think he has some blame. I mean, I don't know. I'm hesitant to blame someone else when someone doesn't act like murders someone. Or well, I think if Mark knew that jen Eyre had purchased a gun, he would have acted in a different manner. Definitely, Yeah, for sure. So I don't know. I was just thinking, like, he definitely bears some culpability. But at the end of the day, jen Eyre is the one who committed this act, so you know. She pretty obviously wasn't will either. Yeah, she definitely had a mental break and was not doing well mentally. Why didn't Jennyer just kill Mark. I don't know. I mean, I think she just I think she blamed Meredith as much as she blamed Mark for what happened, right or wrong. And you know, it seems like that was sort of her backup plan, was to kill Mark and then herself. But it seemed like she really wanted him to live with the loss and the guilt and the pain of losing Meredith as well as her.

1:07:52 Yeah, she wanted the rest of his days to be miserable. Yeah. Would Mark and Meredith have lasted? I mean, who doo? I don't know, what do you think? I believe Mark told Jennayre that he wasn't even sure that they would last. He wanted his freedom first and foremost. Meredith had moved to this new house and Jenayre and Mark still live together. I think that was part of the problem. Is Mark was still going to have to be financially responsible for Jennaire, but he was not going to move in with Meredith. He was going to get his own place, and then Jennaire was going to get her own place. So although he and Meredith were in love, he did he was aware enough to know that he shouldn't jump right into you like a serious relationship with Meredith.

1:08:38 He did say I need to take some time, So I think he did have some doubts that the relationship would run its course. And he did worry about the age difference too. Jennayer said in the Bad Bad Thing podcast, in a conversation, said something about how she he had some like some knack issues or something, and she was giving him a massage one night and Mark said, oh, Meredith can't do it, like you can't. Interesting. Well, even sounds like there was one passage from his book that you read that it sounded like, maybe it was hindsight, but he was talking about the fact that he and Meredith could never have had what he and jen Eyre had together. So even in that sort of sounds like he was not necessarily thinking of Meredith as like his lifelong partner.

1:09:21 I think you can look at the situation and say Mark was just scared to make the jump, But I do think that he was conflicted that he did still love Jenaire, which is kind of crazy, like all the things that she did, Like if I did even two of those things, I think you'd be like, girl, Oh yeah, you're crazy. I'm out, huge, huge red flag. I would be like, yeah. He did keep making excuses for her. Yeah. Like Meredith I think was like Mark, she's crazy, Like, you know, you can't keep doing this, but he just, you know, kept making excuses. Yeah. If there's one thing that I can give credit to Mark for, it's that most men, I don't think would think about it this mom and realized, like, you know, we've been together for over twenty years and you can't get that back that time, like that time that our history together is important. It's part of who you are.

1:10:11 It's part of who I am. And Mark I think really did understand that. Yeah, Yeah, for sure. One thing I was thinking about is how much like their move to Delaware and her being unemployed, like the timing of the whole thing was really bad, and I was wondering how much he think like that contributed to this as well, Like if he had been when they were settled in was it North Carolina, South Carols South Carolina when they were settled there, like she probably had friends and had a life, and if he had sort of been upfront and kind of ended things when she still lived there, if that would have made a difference. That was actually going to be my next point. That's one of the things that makes me most angry is having Jenny move to Delaware was really unfair, right, Yeah, Like she could have stayed and not been and she wouldn't have been as immersed in the situation as she was.

1:10:57 I mean, she wouldn't have been able to do the spying that she did, and you know all those other things. So yeah, that was super unfair of him to not just level with her and be like, hey, you stay here in South Carolina. I'll And another thing in the podcast. In the book, he talks a lot about how, you know, at forty seven years old, you know, what could she expect from life? And it was how she saw herself too, like there was, you know, not much life left to live. And that really breaks my heart because really, say, forty seven is really not fifty seven, sixty seven, seventies, Like, it's just you always have life left to live. There's always things to look forward to, and sure you might not look like you did when you were twenty two, but gosh, she's still a beautiful woman who had things to offer. She loved the animals so much. I wish that Mark would have encouraged her to Nicole work at a veterinary clinic. Yeah, get her a puppy, or you know, just have her a volunteer at the Humane Society. There are things that I think that she still could have gotten joy out of life.

1:11:55 Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's one of the things that was saddest listening to you telling the story of this case is just her feelings about herself and her feelings like that she had no opportunity to make a new life, and it is just so sad that someone can get that stuck and feel like they just have no options. You know, we should never diagnose anyone with a psychological condition, but Jennair definitely has some markers of borderline personality disorder. I'm going to read you a few of the characteristics of that. Intense mood swings, fear of abandonment, unstable relationships, and if you go back to Jennair's childhood, she had few and few friends in her life, chronic feelings of emptiness, distorted self image, disassociation or paranoid thoughts under stress, leading to a sense of detachment from reality and self harm.

1:12:46 For people with borderline personality disorder, one of the worst things that you can do to them is tell them that you're going to leave. The fear of abandonment is just part of who they are. It's like anchored into their souls. Interesting word. Aline personality disorder is one of the more common psychological dysfunctions. It affects about two percent of the general population, and therapy and medication can help. It affects women more commonly than men, and it's vastly underdiagnosed. Interesting and the Bad Bad Thing podcast. There's a psychologist who the host talks to and she helps her guide her through all of this, and in the first five or six episodes, she breaks down the personality traits and behaviors of the people involved in this case. And the host wanted the psychologists to meet with Mark, but Mark was offended by some of the words she used to describe him. She called him a narcissist. When he finally did agree to meet with her, he was like, well, I'm not a narcissist, and this is why. And then she was like, well, Mark, one of the characteristics of being a narcissist is being defensive, and you're being very defensive right now. It was just kind of interesting.

1:13:56 Interesting. I don't know a lot about different psychological disorders. But the one thing about her behavior that kind of made me wonder was maybe there was some obsessive compulsive behavior there as well, because it seemed like she couldn't couldn't stop, she couldn't stop thinking about what was going on. She wanted all the details and so but maybe that's also part of borderline personality disorder. I'm not really sure. Mark said that he thought that she may have become murderous even if the meritith piece hadn't happened, and I don't agree with that at all. There is a Doctor Oz episode where he appeared, and if you look on YouTube, I think there's a few other interviews that he did. I think he really tried to be as honest as he could be, but obviously there's some things that, you know, he was probably holding.

1:14:43 Back a little bit. Yeah, yeah, sure. I think he wanted he wants the public to sympathize with him, and I think that's just really hard to happen. Right before we go, I wanted to tell everyone about a new show that I found when I was in bed with my bad last week. But Colin from accounting, Oh no, Colin from accounts, callin from accounts it's from Australia, so our friends in Australia. Hopefully you're probably already watching this. But it's so funny and sweet. I really loved it. I really like it too. I'm almost through the first season, and yeah, it's very just a sweet show.

1:15:24 It's funny if you have like a you know, a ten year old. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely not for kills teeky. But yeah, I think it's such a refreshing show. Yeah. The main characters are both like very likable but human, like they're not they're not perfect, but they're just interesting. And yeah, so I've really been enjoying that. We're saving Like I binged the first eight the first season, which is eight episodes, and then I was like, I think you might like the show, and grateful you did. We are going away. We are taking a little I'm so looking forward to spend. Break even working so hard. Yeah, we are going to take a four day weekend next weekend and go up north, going up north, going up to Traverse City.

1:16:05 Yeah, we're excited. We were going to go south to try to hit a BUCkies, but. Your obsession with BUCkies will have to wait for a while. Keeps sending me pictures from their BUCkies runs and it's making me really sad. Actually, we have some snacks BUCkies. My sister sent us some. Considered our friend Sam. Yeah, so we have a double. We got good connections to even if we can't get to BUCkies ourselves. We sure do. And last weekend we saw Sinners at the theater and we just wanted to get out. We had had no idea what that movie was. It was such a wild ride. I loved it. I did too, and I would recommend if you don't know anything about it, go see it without reading anything about it, because it's really just.

1:16:45 It's kind of I don't want to give anything away. Yeah, but it might not be for everyone. But we both really enjoyed it. I hope you do too. I just remembered something that I forgot to mention. Jenny Are really did love animals, and Meredith had a dog. She loved, her little white dog named Indy. And before Jennair did anything, she put Indy in a room and closed the door behind her to make sure that Indy was safe and didn't have to, you know, see what was happening. So I thought that was kind of sweet. Yeah. Well, Thank you to Amy for recommending this case. Thank you to Ashley and Emma for the snacks. Well, let us know on Spotify or social media what you think about this case. And please go listen to the Bad Bad Thing podcast and let me know what you think of that too. Thank you so much for your support.

1:17:29 The only reason there's a podcast is because you guys continue to listen. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe. Find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com. Consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash love Marykill. We have one tier for five dollars a month. You get early ad free access plus a monthly bonus. Episode until next time. Don't Kill your wife and Don't Kill your husband to companion with the