May 12, 2025

Jennair and Mark Gerardot - Part 2

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Jennair and Mark Gerardot had been married for 24 years and together for 28, with a relationship marked by its share of highs and lows. Mark, often passive, contrasted sharply with Jennair, who could be more assertive, even aggressive at times. The couple, without children or much family nearby, were content to focus on their pets, which they both adored. However, when Jennair lost her job and struggled to find a new one, her self-esteem began to take a hit. The couple’s dynamic shifted as Jennair’s sense of identity eroded.

When Mark landed a new job in Delaware, Jennair stayed behind in South Carolina to pack up their life and handle the logistics of their move. This gave Mark six weeks of bachelor-like freedom. During this time, he and his 33-year-old boss, Meredith Sullivan Chapman, began developing a “work crush” on each other, igniting an affair that would change everything. As we left off, Jennair, ever perceptive, had begun to sense that something was off with her husband, though she couldn’t yet put her finger on it. What began as quiet suspicions soon spiraled into an all-consuming obsession. Jennair’s fixation on Meredith would lead to a devastating conclusion — one that no one could have predicted.

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Today's snacks: Cranberry Pecan bread from Stonemill Bread and wild walnut honey (thanks Ashley!) and Kizito cookies (thanks Emma!)

WEBVTT

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Hi.

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I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing

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we've learned and over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hello Rich, Hello Tina.

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How are you.

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I'm doing good.

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I'm pretty good too.

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I'm glad to hear that.

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Yeah. I think spring has finally sprung here in southeast Michigan.

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It's a beautiful day. Yeah, but no place i'd rather

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be than right here recording this podcast with you.

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Same.

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So you came back for part two of Jen Ayre

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and Mark Girardo, I sure did. Yeah. So how did

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you sleep last night?

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Pretty good?

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Yeah, that's great.

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How did you sleep?

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You know?

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Eventually I slept fine. But Clover, the girl cat, she's

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a challenge and it's so hard because it's taken us years.

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I think we've had them for about three years now. Yeah,

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and it's taken her a long time to warm to us.

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And she still hasn't warmed to me.

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I mean she does sometimes so at night when she's

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being naughty, I don't want to yell at her, although

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sometimes you will yell at her. Because she just does

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all these annoying things, like our bed is made of wood,

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and there's a canopy on top, and the canopy is

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it can't be more than two inches wide, right, yes,

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but she jumps from a chair to the top of

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the canopy and then she just purchased her body there.

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And look, it really does look I'm not exaggerating, like

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something out of a horror movie.

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Looks like a gargoyle.

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Yeah. Well, even like she just kind of glares at us. Yeah,

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and she does that when she gets mad at me

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after I won't pet her when I'm trying to sleep

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at two in the morning. So then she purchases herself

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up there like a wrestler on the you know, like

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when a wrestler like dives down. Yeah, and she kept

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doing that last night to me, and I got really

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annoyed and I'm like, I really want to yell at her,

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and then she's scratching at the sheets. So eventually, like

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around I think three am, she finally left and I

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was said, good riddance.

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Somehow I slept through all of that.

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You're amazing, Well, I do have a snack for you.

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Our listeners have been spoiling us lately.

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I know, we have kind of a backlog of and sweet.

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Ashley sent us the snack that looks really yummy, and

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she wrapped it up so cute with a little bow,

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and everything got here perfectly fine. I think everyone worries

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about sending snacks. Oh this might break, and but everything

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was great. Ashley lives in Arkansas, and she said that

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these snacks are from Northwest Arkansas, or as they affectionately

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referred to it, NWA. Okay, so I have some cranberry

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pecan rolls or pecan rolls for you, and and some

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wild walnut honey. There's like walnuts and honey.

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Okay.

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I warmed them up in the air fire and we

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can drizzle put a little bit about her. I'm already,

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but we can chose a little bit swall nut honey

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on it.

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It looks still was interesting.

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What did you think of the cranberry pecan rolls and

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the wild honey.

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I really liked it.

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It was delicious.

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Yeah, I was. You and I were talking the other

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day because we've had a few listeners send us snacks

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and we're always a little nervous, like we don't want

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to dislike a snack.

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I always like, ten out of ten is the best

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thing I've ever eatn.

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It feels like a little pressure, and I was it's

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so nice.

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Of people to like take time out of their day,

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and shipping is really pricey, so it really is amazing.

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Yeah that anyone sends us anything.

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Yeah, and so I was a little nervous about this

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one because I'm not the biggest nut guy, and cranberries

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I don't really love. But this was really good. The

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role was just nice and light and flavorful and I

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love the honey and the.

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Yeah, it was delicious. Thank you so much, Ashley. We

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really appreciate it. Would you give it a ten out

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of ten?

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I would.

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It was nice too, because it was sweet, but not

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like overpowering over Oh my gosh, overpower say it overpoweringly?

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Thank yoush so embarrassing. And it looks like the roles

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came from stone Mill Bread. That must be their local

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to Fayetteville, Arkansas. So well, thanks again, Ashley. Really quick,

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before we get into the case, I'm curious what you

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guys do with your cats at night, because when we

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had dogs, we put them in a crate, and you

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know that was really good for all parties involved. But

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with cats, you really have no control. If we kept

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our door closed, they would definitely scratch at it.

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And want to get in.

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Yeah, for sure.

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So I'm just curious what you guys do with your cats.

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Are you ready to get back to Jennaire and Mark?

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I sure, am?

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Can you give us a brief synopsis?

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Jen Are and Mark Girardo had been married for twenty

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four years and together for twenty eight, with a relationship

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marked by its share of highs and lows. Mark, often passive,

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contrasted sharply with jen Ayre, who could be more assertive

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and even aggressive at times. The couple, without children or

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much family nearby, were content to focus on their pets,

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which they both adored. However, when jen Are lost to

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job and struggled to find a new one, her self

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esteem began to take a hit. The couple's dynamics shifted

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as Jennayre's sense of identity eroded. When Mark landed a

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new job in Delaware, jena Are stayed behind in South

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Carolina to pack up their life and handle the logistics

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of their move. This gave Mark six weeks of bachelor

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like freedom. During this time, he and his thirty three

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year old boss Meredith Sullivan Chapman began developing a work

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crush on each other, igniting an affair that would change everything.

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As we left off, Jenayre, ever perceptive, had begun to

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sense that something was off with her husband, though she

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couldn't yet put her finger on it.

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You forget a really important detail in your synopsis.

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Oh, I'm sorry.

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They both hate bananas.

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Oh, I forgot about that, And we both love bananas.

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And people actually pay money to listen to this podcast.

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Mark and Meredith exchanged their first I Love you within

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a month of meeting. It happened in the car after

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they had just left a basketball game on campus and

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were inching along stuck in traffic leaving the parking lot.

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It wasn't planned. Mark just blurted it out. Meredith didn't hesitate.

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She said she felt the same way. They had sex

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for the first time that night. But Mark was adamant

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their relationship wasn't just about the physical connection. Over the

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course of their relationship, they only had sex a handful

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of times. Their connection was more than just physical. What

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mattered to Mark, what he said really drew him in

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was the emotional connection. It felt effortless, easy, like nothing

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he'd ever felt before. Pregnancy scare soon followed. Mark's pant

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was instant visceral, but when the test came back negative,

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an unexpected sadness settled in. For a fleeting moment, he'd

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allowed himself to picture it. Tiny hands clutching his finger,

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Meredith's laugh echoing through a sunlit kitchen with her fatherhood

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felt tangible, even thrilling. It wasn't like the hollow maybe

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some day. Jen Eyre had dangled for decades a future

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that always seemed to retreat like a mirage. This could

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have been real, and part of him wished.

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It was so remind me. I don't know if we

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talked about it in part one, but did they did

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Jennare not want to have children or did they? Were

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they unsure that they wanted to have children or not.

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I think they'd wanted children, but they were kind of

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on the fence about it. And then time just kind

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of passed and they had a couple of moves, and

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I think it just never happened for them. Jennare planned

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to join Mark and Delaware in time for Christmas. He

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flew back to South Carolina on December sixteenth to help

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her pack up the remainder of their belongings. She drove

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the moving truck while he drove her car to Delaware.

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During this long drive, Mark called his best friend Mike

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to talk about Meredith. They'd been friends since high school.

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Mike was the only person that Mark could really confide in.

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Mark was torn. He was deeply worried about hurting jen Eyre.

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He didn't want to cause her pain, but he also

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couldn't ignore how strongly he felt about Meredith, how excited

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he was about a future with her. Do you remember

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Mike and Mark Berlin? Mike really didn't care for Jannire.

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Mike didn't hesitate follow your heart. He told Mark, you

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haven't been happy in years, maybe this is your chance

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to be. It wasn't the most morally sound advice, but

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it came from a place of honesty. Mike had seen

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Mark's unhappiness up close. He knew how difficult Jenniere could

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be and how disrespected and dismissed Mark often felt in

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his marriage. And the truth was Mike had never liked Jennire,

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and maybe deep down, Mark knew that Mike's dislike for

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Jannaire made it easy for him to say what Mark

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already wanted to hear Jenneire, since something was off almost

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the moment she arrived in Delaware. It wasn't just the

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possibility of an affair, though that crossed her mind. It

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was the way Mark carried himself distant, guarded, defensive. His

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energy had shifted. After two months of living on his own,

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he'd grown comfortable with his newfound freedom. She confronted him,

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what had changed? Why did everything feel different? He kept

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brushing it off, insisting nothing was wrong, until she snapped

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and screamed, just say it, you fucking pussy, and he

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did quote I went out. I want my independence. The

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words hung in the air, irreversible. He tried to walk

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them back immediately, but it was too late. At that moment,

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every alarm in Jennaire's mind went off at once. Since

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Mark had moved to Delaware and worked with Meredith, he

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talked about her non stop, how professional she was, how

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he was learning so much from her, and how upbeat

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she always was. Jannaire had filed all of this information

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away until now. She knew, deep in her gut that

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Mark was having an affair with Meredith, but he adamantly

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denied it, over and over and over. So Mark had

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the six weeks all to himself. Is that a dream

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come true for any man?

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Not for me? I don't know what you're talking about. Really, No,

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it would be a fun little vacation to be on

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your own for a few weeks, but six weeks a

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long time. I would miss you greatly. Hmm.

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Jannaire was nothing if not resourceful and scorned and all that.

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This is where the story takes a turn. Jenneire purchased

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a dozen tiny voice activated recording devices. She planted them

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in Mark's car and sewed them into the lapels of

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his suit jackets and pockets of his winter coats. This

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is illegal in the state of Delaware and probably pretty

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much every other state, we think, so each night, while

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Mark slept, Jennaire downloaded the contents of the devices and

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then re sewed them into his clothing.

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That must have taken a lot of planning and work

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and time to make that work.

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Just to wait. But Jennaire was no expert in spycraft.

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Most of the recordings she captured were muffled too much fabric,

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too much background noise, leaving a lot of the recordings

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distorted like voices underwater. Still, there was one recording that

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stood out beneath the static. She was certain she could

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hear moaning and whispered pillow talk. It sent her mind

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into overdrive. She played it again and again, trying to

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make sense of it, feeling equal parts vindicated and horrified

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as her worst fears were realized. Mark really was having

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an affair with his boss. Jenneyer emailed a former colleague

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and audio engineer, seeking his help to clean up the

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distorted recordings. Quote, please keep this between me and you.

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I am recording Mark with this new boss, trying to

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find out the truth. It's the only act of control

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I felt I have, and he is denying this affair

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to protect her reputation because of the conflict of her

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dating and employee. I need to catch them in the act.

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We were happily married in November. Before he left. We

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were excited about a fresh start. I am devastated and heartbroken.

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Mark has been hugging me and being nice, but he

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00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:42.960
still won't kiss me or be intimate. Even though I

241
00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.639
make the moves, he almost recoils. Please pray for me.

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I asked him if he met someone, and he denied it.

243
00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:52.120
Please don't tell Mark, I wrote to you. I want

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to level the playing field of this game. They are

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00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.960
playing with me. The audio engineer wished Jenneyer luck, but

246
00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:01.039
also made it clear he was not INTERRC in helping her.

247
00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.360
There was no way he was about to get involved

248
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:08.320
in this illegal surveillance, so Jenneyer continued her investigation solo.

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When Mark said he needed to travel to Philadelphia for

250
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.279
a day of work meetings, she knew he was lying.

251
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.200
She followed him there. He had meetings in the morning,

252
00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.919
but the rest of his day was completely open and

253
00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:22.360
he spent it with Meredith. Jennier lurked in the shadows.

254
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.679
As Meredith and Mark walked around Philly, holding hands and kissing.

255
00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:28.600
They looked very much like a couple. She was gutted

256
00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.000
to see the man she'd devoted twenty eight years of

257
00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.279
her life to with another woman. She begged Mark to

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level with her, to tell her the truth that she

259
00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.360
knew in her soul to be true, but he continued

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to gaslight her. When Mark eventually returned home that night,

261
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Jenneyre wasn't there. She stormed in half an hour later

262
00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:49.039
and went straight to bed. Sensing trouble, Mark decided to

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spend the night on the couch. The next morning, when

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Mark was making his coffee, Jennier boldly confronted him and

265
00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:57.519
demanded to know why exactly he was holding hands with

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his boss.

267
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Oh boy, in.

268
00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:01.639
This part of the store. I think Jenaire really wants

269
00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:03.480
to know the truth. I mean, she's seen the truth

270
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.600
with her own eyes, but until she gets confirmation from

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00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:09.639
her husband, she still, I think has some doubt that

272
00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:12.519
maybe everything will be okay. Maybe this is just a

273
00:13:12.559 --> 00:13:14.919
little fling and he'll get over it and then we'll

274
00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:15.679
be okay again.

275
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.639
Yeah, so just help me understand something. So he told

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00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:22.240
her that he wanted his freedom, he wanted out. But

277
00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:24.720
they're still together. Are they trying to work on things

278
00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:26.360
or are they just to get backtracked?

279
00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:29.440
After that, he was like, I'm so sorry everything, you know,

280
00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:30.960
let's work it out.

281
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.639
So now he's just carrying on this affair and lying

282
00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.279
to her even though she really, deep down knows the truth.

283
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.639
And maybe he's lying to himself a little bit here too.

284
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.799
Maybe Mark continued to gaslight jen eyre telling her that

285
00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:45.759
she was being paranoid and making things up. This was

286
00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.960
a poor decision that led jennayir to extreme lengths to

287
00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.320
get more proof of Meredith and Mark's affair. One night,

288
00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:54.919
while Mark slept, she quietly took his phone and had

289
00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.279
it cloned without his knowledge. She sent the duplicate to

290
00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:02.159
a third party company that could inner and record his calls, texts,

291
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:02.919
and photos.

292
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:04.559
Wow, do you know anything about this?

293
00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:06.799
No, I wouldn't even thought that was possible.

294
00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.039
Yeah, I think she used some device and maybe it

295
00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:12.480
was like a thumb drive or something, and yeah, cloned it.

296
00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:16.080
Before long, Jenayre had near real time access to his

297
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:21.000
private conversations with Meredith, every word, every message, every shared moment.

298
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.840
She also stole a pair of his underwear and sent

299
00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:25.720
it to a lab to see if they could find

300
00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:29.200
DNA evidence of another woman. Wow, she is going deep

301
00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.600
on this, isn't she. And if that wasn't enough, she

302
00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.440
put GPS trackers on both Meredith and Mark's cars. And

303
00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:38.639
she'd even stolen the keys to Mark's office and rifled

304
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:40.759
through his desk searching for more evidence.

305
00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:43.279
Mark would go to bed and then I'm not sure

306
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.759
how many times she did this, but she would go

307
00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.559
to his office. Yeah, you know, unlock it. At the

308
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:50.399
University of Delaware, You would think that they would have yeah,

309
00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:53.960
a little secret. Yeah, and she would you know, just

310
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.320
look for evidence.

311
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.840
Mark's text messages and phone calls proved everything. Jenayir was

312
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:03.120
furious about the cheating, of course, but also about the

313
00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:06.559
lies and the possibility of being abandoned. She was being

314
00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.320
left out to dry. She had just moved to a

315
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.279
new city with no job or connections there. She had

316
00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.679
no close friends, no one to turn to in this

317
00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:18.120
most stressful time. As a last resort, her parents would

318
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.879
take her in, but that was too depressing to even consider,

319
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.879
so jen Eyre went on a war path. She tracked

320
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.840
down Luke, Meredith's husband and made an appointment with him

321
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:27.840
using a fake name.

322
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:29.559
He was a financial adviser.

323
00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:33.120
Okay. Once there, she told him everything. He dismissed her

324
00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:35.720
as a crazy woman. She also wrote a letter to

325
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:40.159
Mark and Meredith's supervisor, quote, I want Meredith fired immediately

326
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:44.039
on the morality clause and the HR liabilities. I would

327
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:45.879
like to beat them at this game they are playing.

328
00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.559
I want to catch her off guard. I want to

329
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:51.759
put a pin in her reputation bubble. Mark is attracted

330
00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.159
to her drive and success. I used to have this,

331
00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:56.799
you know I still have it. I want to give

332
00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:59.679
them something unexpected like they did to me. I am

333
00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.480
sorry for this overwhelming letter. I am sorry to have

334
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.759
had to send this letter to you at all. I'm

335
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.080
sure it was very uncomfortable to read and you are

336
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:10.519
astounded at even receiving such a personal and torrid thing.

337
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.279
I'm hoping this won't backfire on me. Thanks for reading it. Please, please,

338
00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.799
please don't tell Meredith or Mark that I did this

339
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.000
or show them the letter. Wow.

340
00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.759
Imagine you're the HR person at the University of Delaware

341
00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.879
and your going through your mail and you get this letter. Yeah,

342
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:29.360
it would be so shocking.

343
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:31.759
Yeah, that would be shocking. I just I think her

344
00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:35.080
approach was not the best approach. Like writing the letter,

345
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.320
I can kind of understand that, but she just went

346
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.399
into all these kind of like personal details about her

347
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:42.799
that I think she could have just left out and said, look,

348
00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.120
you have two employees that are having an affair that

349
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:47.360
is inappropriate and you should know about it.

350
00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.480
I think it signifies the decline of her mental health.

351
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:51.759
Yeah, it sounds like good.

352
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:53.960
Yeah, she's kind of slowly losing it.

353
00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:57.679
Yep. Around Valentine's Day, jen Air told Mark that she

354
00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:00.679
knew everything. She told him how she had cloned his phone,

355
00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.600
though she never mentioned the listening devices in his clothing

356
00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:06.680
or the GPS on his car. Jenayre presented him with

357
00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:10.279
irrefutable evidence. Mark finally admitted that he had been lying

358
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.279
and deceiving her for months. He and Meredith were in love.

359
00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:16.279
They argued through the night and eventually agreed to visit

360
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:20.119
a marriage counselor. Though they had different motives. Jeneyre wanted

361
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.519
to repair their marriage and Mark was looking for an

362
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:27.039
ally to help soften the blow. Jenayre's takedown attempts succeeded

363
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.279
in their intended damage. Luke Chapman was slow to accept

364
00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:33.839
the truth of Meredith's infidelity, but he was eventually convinced

365
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.920
by the onslaught of evidence which Jeneyer kept emailing him.

366
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:40.440
He filed for a quick divorce, and an HR investigation

367
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.599
was launched by the University of Delaware. In the meantime,

368
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.759
Meredith and Mark would no longer be working together. This

369
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.599
didn't stop the affair, of course, It just made Meredith

370
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.240
and Mark's lives a little bit harder. In what was

371
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.039
presumably an attempt to publicly shame her husband, Jeneyre took

372
00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:59.680
to the app next door and posted publicly quote please

373
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.440
reckon men an excellent marriage counselor for a couple on

374
00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.559
the brink of divorce. We will need someone experienced in

375
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:10.000
dealing with issues including infidelity, depression, being accountable for actions,

376
00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.680
et cetera. Someone with a good track record of helping

377
00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:16.200
couples communicate better to rebuild the relationship or even come

378
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:18.720
to clarity about its probability of success.

379
00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:21.279
Can you imagine seeing this on the next.

380
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:22.799
Door I app That would be like the highlight of

381
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:23.480
my day.

382
00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:27.559
And he'd be like, You'd be running up stairs like,

383
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:29.200
oh my god, we gotta have to show you this,

384
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:30.759
And then we'd be like, which neighbor is it?

385
00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:33.359
She sending it to the family chat? Oh my gosh,

386
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:34.119
that's crazy.

387
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.880
So Jenny are is mental health obviously is deteriorating. But

388
00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.400
it's tricky to see that because like this writing everything

389
00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.359
she writes, she's a very intelligent woman. You know, it

390
00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:48.240
sounds cohesive and you know she's making her point, So

391
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.079
you know, it's just kind of hard to reconcile her

392
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:55.279
to sent into madness versus she's just really angry.

393
00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.880
Yeah, for sure. When Mark and Jennayer went to the

394
00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:00.960
marriage counselor, he came to a conclusion that Jenair did

395
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.079
not like. While Jennayre was intent on fixing the marriage,

396
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:06.599
Mark was more hesitant. He was in love with Meredith

397
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.279
and didn't want to give that up. The counselor advised

398
00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:11.400
that they should not ignore the fact that Mark had

399
00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:13.920
fallen in love with someone else, and that staying in

400
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.400
the marriage might not be the best course of action

401
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:19.640
for either party. They ought to at least consider divorce.

402
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:22.599
Jen Eyre was livid. She felt the counselor was a

403
00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.200
misogynist and was basically giving Mark permission to cheat on her.

404
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.880
She stormed out and called the counselor a chauvinist quack.

405
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:31.920
We'll be back after a break.

406
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:43.400
Even though he had initiated divorce proceedings and was convinced

407
00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.640
by all of the evidence, Jennaire was still emailing Luke

408
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.599
constantly orderline harassing him. She kept updating him on Mark

409
00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:55.839
and Meredith's activities. Here are a couple of the emails. Quote.

410
00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:58.319
Mark is turning fifty in October and having a mid

411
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:02.200
life crisis. Obviously, when he got here, he became obsessed

412
00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:05.160
with working out, which he did about once a week before.

413
00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:08.279
Now he works out every other day, if not daily,

414
00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.200
To keep up with Meredith. He sends selfies of his

415
00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:14.279
progress now and then so she can compliment him. Wonder

416
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:16.599
what she's gonna think of his older man's stuff, like

417
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.480
his hair crowing out of his ears and no, that's

418
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:25.680
a low blow quote. Grab her underwear from today, I'll

419
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:28.920
go have it tested with Marx. Hurry before she gets

420
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.880
rid of evidence. He immediately changed when he got back

421
00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.440
from work and his underwear was stained with something that

422
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:38.400
should not be there during the work hours. Oh, sorry

423
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:38.640
for that.

424
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.680
This is reminding me a little bit of the show

425
00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:46.119
we're watching right now, Enlightened. Laura Duran's character just seems

426
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.880
like her mental state just seems very similar to Laura

427
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:51.160
Durn's character in that show.

428
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.759
I think you mean in the scenes where she's kind

429
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:56.599
of descending into her own mental breakdown.

430
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:58.279
Yes, exactly at the beginning of the show.

431
00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:00.279
I think most of the show is about her, her

432
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.279
kind of her journey to wellness. Jenneara and Luke spoke

433
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:07.519
several times a total of ninety eight minutes. Once his

434
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:11.000
divorce was final, he told her to stop contacting him,

435
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.279
which I totally don't blame him. He was trying to

436
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.240
move on and she should do the same. He also

437
00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:20.160
warned her not to get into any legal trouble, as

438
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.960
illegal recording as a felony. Eventually, Mark discovered that he

439
00:21:24.039 --> 00:21:27.119
was being bugged right before heading into a therapy session.

440
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.480
He felt something bulging in his jacket. Thinking it was

441
00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.839
an anti theft device, he sliced open the seam and

442
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:37.440
found the recording device. Jannier had been regularly sneaking into

443
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.000
the closet while he slept, removing the old bugs and

444
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:44.400
replacing them with freshly charged ones. Mark was understandably very

445
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.200
upset about this. On his way to therapy, he stopped

446
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.160
by merediths and showed it to her. She immediately said

447
00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.880
that they ought to press charges. She knew the Attorney

448
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.079
General personally, so she could make it happen fast. The

449
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.599
bugs were also picking up ancillary employees of the university,

450
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:04.519
a subsidized government institution, so it was doubly illegal. Mark

451
00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:07.200
shared her anger, but calmed her down. He didn't want

452
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:09.319
to put Janniir in jail. He didn't think that she

453
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.480
was violent or dangerous, and he felt guilty about how

454
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.400
everything went down. They needed to keep cool heads and

455
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:17.720
make sure that Jannire would still be able to find

456
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.440
employment so she could eventually be independent, and a criminal

457
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.680
record would make it all more difficult. Mark brought up

458
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:28.119
his discovery of the recording devices in therapy. Jannier was

459
00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:31.720
not apologetic, but acquiesced when the therapist said that she

460
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.880
absolutely needed to stop sewing bugs into Mark's clothing. She

461
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.200
promised she'd stop recording him, but she did not actually stop.

462
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.599
She knew that Mark wouldn't tell her the truth unless

463
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:45.160
she shoved proof of it in his face. She would

464
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.799
ask Mark about their sex life. How many times did

465
00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:51.279
he and Meredith have intercourse? What were all the dirty details?

466
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.839
Mark refused to tell her. He said it couldn't possibly

467
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:57.519
do her any good to know that. She saw it

468
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:01.160
as just another omission, just another life. In her mind,

469
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:03.960
there was no other way she had to record him.

470
00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:08.000
In fact, she actually started going even further across the line.

471
00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:10.200
I don't understand at this point why they are still

472
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.400
even together, Like, why haven't they just severed it and

473
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.440
said let's get a divorce. And it just seems like

474
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:19.839
from both sides it's just not I know it's not

475
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:20.079
going to.

476
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:22.720
End well, but yeah, I know when women are being

477
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:25.680
cheated on, they want to know every detail like this

478
00:23:25.720 --> 00:23:28.079
is normal behavior. They want to know how often you know?

479
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.920
Was it better? Why do you want this woman? I

480
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.200
know that you know some of the things that Jennaire

481
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.839
is doing are normal in this case.

482
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:36.839
Yeah, for sure.

483
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:40.920
Mark handled the situation about as poorly as any person could. Basically,

484
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:43.000
he didn't know what he wanted. He was scared of

485
00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:46.799
hurting anyone's feelings or breaking any hearts. He actually wanted

486
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:49.920
both Meredith and jenneyer. He wanted to keep living this

487
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:53.960
double life. The indecision drove jennayre nuts. It became this

488
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:56.920
endless circle. She would eventually get so tired of the

489
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.559
stress she told him to choose between them, and he

490
00:23:59.559 --> 00:24:02.359
would say, quote, well, if you're gonna make me choose,

491
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:05.119
then I want Meredith. She'd then beg him not to

492
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.039
leave her, and they'd go back to this unsteady truce.

493
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.759
The psychle war Jennier's psyche down before this, she was

494
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:15.599
never stable per se, but she was functional. After going

495
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:17.839
through Mark's affair, something snapped well.

496
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.599
I can concur that Mark handled the situation about as

497
00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:21.680
poorly as anyone could.

498
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.160
So one night, jennayre thought she had a brilliant solution

499
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:27.799
and She floated the idea to Mark, what if he

500
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:31.559
accused Meredith of sexual coercion. She was his boss after all.

501
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:33.640
That way he would be able to keep his job

502
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.720
amid the HR investigation and get a financial settlement from

503
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:40.240
the university. If he could only throw Meredith under the bus,

504
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:42.599
she would be fired and out of their lives forever.

505
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:43.200
Well.

506
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:47.039
Mark was gobsmacked. He refused, which upset Jennaire and made

507
00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:50.599
her even angrier. But neither Mark nor Meredith would have

508
00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:54.359
to worry about being fired. They had both been reprimanded

509
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.119
and Mark no longer reported to Meredith. But Mark soon

510
00:24:57.160 --> 00:24:59.759
found a new job at a luxury resort company with

511
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:02.960
a added benefits. He would get two free vacations per

512
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:06.160
year with a plus one included. He was already planning

513
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.240
on taking Meredith somewhere. Sonny and Meredith had been offered

514
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:12.440
a new job at Villanova University as the assistant VP

515
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.480
of Marketing and Creative Services. However, it wasn't all smooth

516
00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:19.680
sailing ahead. Mark told Meredith that once they started their

517
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:22.400
new jobs, they needed to take a break from each other.

518
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:25.400
Quote ninety days tops, you only had the time to

519
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.680
get settled at the new job. Anyway, and I need

520
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:30.839
time to lend things right with Jenayre. I need to

521
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.160
do this and if I don't, I'll regret it later.

522
00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.240
He needed to give his marriage one last try again.

523
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:39.680
He was sending both women mixed messages, and neither were

524
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:42.799
happy about it. When Jennaire learned about Meritith's new job

525
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.160
at Villanova, she tried to get her fired from that

526
00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.079
job too. She sent a letter similar to the one

527
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.400
she'd sent to the University of Delaware quote, I implore

528
00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:54.640
you not to hire Meredith Chapman resinned while you still

529
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.119
can the offer you just gave her as your next

530
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:00.960
assistant vice president of Marketing Creative Services. Meredith Chapman is

531
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.680
having an affair with the married man my husband. You

532
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.160
should consider a more honorable and moral candidate. There has

533
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:09.200
to be a better person out there for this role.

534
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.039
Please please, please don't tell Meredith that I did this

535
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:14.559
or show her the letter. This is not a joke.

536
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.599
I'm a real person. Villanova ignored the letter, writing it

537
00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:21.160
off as the rambling is of a crazy person. But

538
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:26.200
then Jennayre's cyberstocking and online harassment of Meredith intensified. Shandeira

539
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:29.200
felt her grasp on Mark loosening, and her mental health

540
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:34.119
further deteriorated. She started recording videos of herself, got wrenching

541
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:38.400
displays of alternating ranting and sobbing directly into the camera

542
00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.920
about how sad and angry she was. She was clearly

543
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.440
a broken woman. Again. I talked about this in the

544
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:49.000
last episode. But in the podcast Bad Bad Thing season one,

545
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:52.640
they have a lot of Jennaire's recordings and I didn't

546
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.079
include them, but I encourage you to go listen. They

547
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:57.799
did a fabulous job on the podcast and it really

548
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:02.200
shows her descent into insanity. I guess in the videos

549
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:04.880
Jenny Are confided to the camera how pathetic she felt

550
00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:07.519
the thought of re entering the dating world. That her

551
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.359
age terrified Jennyre. She was deeply self conscious about her appearance,

552
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:15.400
convinced that this her aging body, her insecurities, they were

553
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:18.079
the reasons that Mark was leaving. In her mind, he

554
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:21.480
was trading her in for a newer, younger, fitter version.

555
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:24.319
And I need to say here that Jennyre was abuse.

556
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:27.160
She really was a beautiful woman. They were both beautiful.

557
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.960
But you know, I understand her, you know, insecurities. Yeah,

558
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.240
but she still had a lot of life to live.

559
00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.319
Yeah, for sure, Meredith seemed to embody everything. Jenneyre feared

560
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:40.440
that she wasn't. She ran every day, radiated energy and ambition,

561
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:43.839
and had that effortless, youthful glow. Jennayre felt that she

562
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.200
had long since lost. It felt like an unfair competition,

563
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.160
one she never had a chance of winning. Jen Eyre

564
00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:53.279
saw herself as someone with no real skills, no future

565
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.640
without mark. She feared she'd be reduced to an invisible,

566
00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:00.839
aging divorce ae, stuck behind a cashier counter, slowly fading

567
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:03.839
into the background of a life that she no longer recognized.

568
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:06.799
Their marriage counselor assured her that she still had a

569
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:09.160
bright future ahead of her and that there were plenty

570
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:12.079
of opportunities for her, But she just didn't believe that.

571
00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:16.000
At forty seven, Jenayre was a beautiful, intelligent, funny, and

572
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:20.160
fiercely determined woman, but years of setbacks and disappointments had

573
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:23.359
chipped away at her self worth. She no longer recognized

574
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:26.519
these parts of herself. All she could see were the cracks.

575
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.519
Even though she was already aware of the affair, Jeneyre

576
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:32.759
couldn't stop herself from planting more bugs and continuing to

577
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.079
spy on Mark's phone calls and text messages. She was

578
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.359
still unemployed, so she had a lot of time on

579
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.200
her hands to stew to let her mind wander and

580
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.160
explore the worst possible outcome. The constant checking of Mark's

581
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:49.160
personal communications had become an obsession. She needed to know everything.

582
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.319
She needed proof that Mark didn't love her anymore, even

583
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.359
though he still told her every day. Since Jenneyre had

584
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:57.640
let it slip that she had had his phone cloned,

585
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:01.000
she noticed the messages between Meredith and had become more

586
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:04.880
chaste and perfunctory. It was fishy to Jenneyre. One night,

587
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:07.240
while Mark was sleeping, she lifted his finger to his

588
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:10.160
phone and unlocked it. She found a new application that

589
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:13.440
she had never seen on his phone before. Snapchat.

590
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.200
Oh boy, every parent's worse nightmare.

591
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:20.759
These were communications that the cloning company couldn't trace. Jeneyre

592
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:26.279
discovered explicit photos, intimate suggestive images exchange between Mark and Meredith.

593
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.680
Alongside them were passionate declarations of love, raw and breathless,

594
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.119
the kind of words that once might have been meant

595
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.759
for her with Snapchat. Don't things disappear.

596
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.200
After a while, You can save them?

597
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.359
Okay? So he must have been saving things. In his

598
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.319
conversation with Meredith. Okay, on March fifteenth, twenty eighteen, Mark

599
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:48.640
found another listening device sewn into the lining of his jacket.

600
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:51.799
A fight erupted. Jennyre and Mark fought a lot, but

601
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:54.880
this one was a blowout. Mark didn't usually get angry,

602
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.640
but he was overcome with rage on this particular night.

603
00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:00.319
She had promised to stop recording him, and he had

604
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.960
taken her at her word quote. I thought we were

605
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.279
done with this shit. Is this all you do all day?

606
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.519
You're supposed to be looking for jobs, trying to make

607
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:09.400
a go of it. If this is what you've become,

608
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:11.279
if this is all you can do, then you are

609
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:14.200
nothing to me. Mark flipped their coffee table over and

610
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:16.559
then stormed out. He went to meet Meredith for a

611
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.680
drink to cool off.

612
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:22.519
So some of these conversations were actually recorded, oh, because

613
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:25.759
she was also recording their conversations. I don't think it

614
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:29.319
was necessarily intentionally, but you know, she's recording devices all

615
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:32.400
over okay, so she was on tape quite often.

616
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:35.200
Two okay, interesting, jen Air filmed the more videos of

617
00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:38.559
herself ranting to the camera. They are dark and disturbing

618
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.920
foreshadowing of what was to come. Quote. If I had

619
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:44.079
a gun, I would kill her right in the face,

620
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.319
right between her eyes, and then I would kill me.

621
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:48.880
He can't have her, and he has to live with

622
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.240
that for the rest of his life. I tried. I

623
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:54.039
couldn't get a gun. I'm not a resident. I couldn't

624
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.759
get a driver's license. Just got my birth certificate to

625
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:59.759
do that and wait the waiting period out. That night,

626
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:01.720
Jenna Air went up to the top floor of their

627
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:04.720
apartment building and opened a window. She took a picture

628
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:06.960
of the view and sent it to a former coworker,

629
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.519
a last cry for help before she jumped. She heard rustling.

630
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:13.519
A neighbor came out to investigate the noise. She was

631
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:17.319
suddenly overtaken by fear. She didn't want to be institutionalized.

632
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:21.279
She ran back downstairs. When Mark came home, Jenayre told

633
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.759
him that she had nearly taken her own life. Then,

634
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:26.200
in a sudden burst of panic, she announced she was

635
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.160
going to try again and bolted for the door. Mark

636
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:31.680
caught her, wrestling her to the ground, holding her as

637
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:34.640
she fought against him. He spoke to her gently, trying

638
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.200
to anchor her. Eventually she stopped struggling. She looked at

639
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:42.519
him and pleaded, please don't institutionalize me. Mark promised he

640
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:44.680
wouldn't take her to the hospital, but only if she

641
00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:47.200
agreed to get help. She needed to talk to someone

642
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:51.680
outside of marriage counseling, a therapist, maybe try medication, and

643
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:53.799
she needed to call her parents and tell them what

644
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:57.200
had happened. The next morning, a coworker she had confided in,

645
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:59.720
the one that she had sent that photo to, told

646
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.519
her that the same thing. Call your parents. Jen Eyre

647
00:32:02.599 --> 00:32:05.720
began taking antidepressants, but didn't like how they made her

648
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.519
feel foggy and detached. She called her parents, told them

649
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:12.359
about the scare, but insisted that she was fine now

650
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.519
that she didn't need them to come. On March twentieth,

651
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:17.920
Jennair drove to the gun store where she bought a

652
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.200
Torus Tracker three fifty seven. Then she signed up for

653
00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.599
lessons with a professional so she could learn how to

654
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:26.559
use the weapon. She began going to the shooting range

655
00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:30.839
regularly to practice firing the revolver. She went three times later.

656
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:34.319
People were most shocked by this. For her entire adult life,

657
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:38.960
Jenayre was a pacifist. She hated guns. Sometime not long after,

658
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.240
Mark went to Starbucks at night. He claimed to be

659
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.400
preparing for a job interview. A few hours later, jennayre

660
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:48.799
realized the Starbucks would be closing soon. She was certain

661
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:52.039
that she was being duped again. She decided to drive there,

662
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.039
but of course Mark wasn't there. Next Door to the

663
00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.799
Starbucks was a wine bar. She could see them through

664
00:32:57.839 --> 00:33:01.759
the front windows. Jenayre marched in and confronted Meredith and Mark,

665
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:04.480
looking cozy at a table for two, sipping on the

666
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.200
red wine that they both loved so much. This was

667
00:33:07.240 --> 00:33:10.119
the first and only time Meredith and Jennayer met face

668
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.359
to face at least prior to the upcoming incident. On

669
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.240
April twenty third, She tried to make a big scene

670
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:20.240
and loudly shouted at Mark come home now. Mark didn't budge.

671
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:22.400
He said that he'd be home when he was finished.

672
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:26.319
Jenayre leaned into Meredith's ear and whispered, there's a special

673
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:30.319
place in hell for women like you. Incense. She stomped off.

674
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:33.759
Meredith was left shaking. Mark ran out a few minutes

675
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.519
later and went home to do damage control. Meredith stayed behind,

676
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:40.720
having another drink to calm her nerves. The bartender told

677
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:44.319
her that woman seems unhinged. Another patron at the wine

678
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:47.119
bar happened to be an attorney and recommended to Meredith

679
00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:50.680
that she seek a restraining order against Jennare. The next morning,

680
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:54.440
Meredith noticed deep key gouges all the way around her car.

681
00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:57.519
Her now ex husband was among the many who pleaded

682
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.000
with her to seek police protection against Jenney.

683
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.519
However, you think about Meredith, because she's the other woman,

684
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:06.039
This must have just rattled her so bad.

685
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:07.279
Oh yeah, I'm sure.

686
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:10.519
And it was just like this incessant barrage of one

687
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:11.400
thing after another.

688
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:16.039
Yeah, that's got to be incredibly stressful and scary. Mark

689
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:18.320
tried to keep the peace. He told Jena Air to

690
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.000
stay away from Meredith, but he begged Meredith not to

691
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:23.760
get a restraining order. He didn't want that showing up

692
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:27.000
on jen Ayre's record. She was already having trouble finding

693
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:30.280
a job as it was. On March third, Jenayre took

694
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:32.840
half of her and Mark's liquid assets and moved them

695
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:36.199
into a new bank account. She began seeing Sheila Brennan,

696
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:40.320
a divorce coach. She was part therapist and part divorce lawyer.

697
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:44.119
She specialized in guiding people through their separation and divorce.

698
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:48.079
Sheila noted that Jenayir was definitely emotional, but she didn't

699
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:51.639
necessarily strike her as more unstable than any other person

700
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:55.119
going through a difficult separation with someone they still loved.

701
00:34:55.719 --> 00:34:59.800
But Jennare was definitely more unstable than your average person. A.

702
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.440
She had begun to work on a final statement, a

703
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:07.400
suicide letter slash manifesto. We don't have the whole thing,

704
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:11.000
but here are some excerpts. Quote. Guys, I'm not going

705
00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:13.519
to write that letter, the kind that looks back on

706
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:16.599
our lives together and great memories and how much I'm

707
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:19.159
sorry for doing all these things. I'm sorry if you

708
00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:21.679
need it. I live to lie this entire marriage. I

709
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.679
feel so foolish for devoting my entire life to it.

710
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.519
Now I'm here because I was so stupid in love

711
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:29.960
and careless with my own life, and I have nothing

712
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:32.719
left to give. I just want to be gone clean,

713
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:36.400
slate this uphill road. Trying to just survive and heal

714
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.159
and even assume I will find a great love again

715
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:41.719
is bullshit. I don't have a chance in hell. We

716
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:44.599
all know what happens to older wives. They hardly ever

717
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.880
get their lives even close to what they once had,

718
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:50.119
and usually live a lonely life. There's no great love

719
00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.559
that comes afterwards, and I don't have kids or grandkids

720
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:56.559
to get lost into. I'm so ugly and old. I

721
00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:59.320
look so bad for my age. I look like an old,

722
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.639
wrinkly lie. No amount of exercise or eating right is

723
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.119
going to help that. I'm so ugly and unattractive. I

724
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.039
can't stand looking at myself in the mirror. I can't

725
00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:11.480
blame Mark for running away because I look like shit.

726
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:14.440
I see the future and it is bleak. I have

727
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:17.639
been broken and cannot be repaired. He took the best

728
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:20.639
years of my life. As much as these selfish assholes

729
00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:24.039
of excuses of human turds deserve each other. I need

730
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:28.320
justice for my pain and destruction. Their immoral, unethical, and

731
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:32.840
cruel actions have consequences. Mark and Meredith cannot get away

732
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:33.239
with this.

733
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:34.760
It's really sad.

734
00:36:35.119 --> 00:36:38.679
It's very sad. Although Jenneire had expressed her anger to Mark,

735
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:41.599
she'd been masking the depth of her resentment and rage.

736
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.679
No one fully grasped how much darkness she'd been carrying,

737
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:48.599
how deeply it had taken root. It was at a

738
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:53.000
catastrophic level. To those around her, she appeared wounded, maybe

739
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.000
even lost, But behind her eyes, something far more dangerous

740
00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.760
had begun to take shape. No one knew what she was,

741
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.920
maybe not even herself. On April sixth, twenty eighteen, Mark

742
00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:07.599
spoke to a divorce attorney, as both Meredith and Enginaire

743
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.880
were getting very tired of the double life Mark was living.

744
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:13.760
They were both in agreement about one thing. He needed

745
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.159
to at least consult a divorce attorney. When he finally

746
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.639
sat down and explained the situation, the divorce attorney was

747
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:23.679
stunned that Mark had waited so long to see her.

748
00:37:23.880 --> 00:37:24.920
I am also stunned.

749
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:29.280
She told him that this situation was borderline abusive, potentially dangerous.

750
00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:33.280
The marriage was irretrievably broken, Marriage counseling was a waste

751
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.639
of everyone's time and the marriage immediately, and consider filing

752
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:41.159
a PFA or protection from abuse order, which I think

753
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:42.760
as much to be what they called it in Delaware,

754
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.679
we would call it a restraining leuder. The divorce attorney

755
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:48.840
implored Mark to do this. He waved the warning away.

756
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:51.800
He knew Jennyer. She had a sharp tongue, but she

757
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:54.960
was not violent or dangerous. I think one of the

758
00:37:55.000 --> 00:37:57.119
most important things that we have learned as we have

759
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:00.800
done this podcast is so many of these situations like

760
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:04.199
Chris Watts, he had no history of violence, he had

761
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.360
no arrest record. You know a lot of these people.

762
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.519
It's the same thing. So just because someone has no

763
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:15.000
history of violence is not an indicator of the future. Right,

764
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:25.199
We'll be back after a break. This episode is going

765
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:27.400
to be a little longer, I think. So we have

766
00:38:27.559 --> 00:38:31.920
halftime snacks. So one of my favorite people in the world, Yea,

767
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:36.519
our lovely daughter went to Louisville on a little spring

768
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:40.320
break and brought us back these cookies. And because we've

769
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.840
had a lot of listener snacks and sometimes they've been

770
00:38:42.880 --> 00:38:45.639
sitting around for a while and she's a little angry

771
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:49.559
at us for not eating the snack. So she brought

772
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:53.280
us these cosito cookies. Is that how you think you

773
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:56.199
would say it? K I Z I T O. And

774
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:58.280
she said they were just kind of all over the area.

775
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:02.880
Really back, we have white chocolate chip it looks like

776
00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:07.559
a ginger snap, a peanut butter sugar cookie, a chocolate

777
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:10.639
chip cookie, and an oatmeal raisin. Wow, which one would

778
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:11.280
you like to try?

779
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:13.360
I would probably go for the peanut butter.

780
00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:23.599
Okay, all right, we'll be right back. Well, that was

781
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:25.679
a very good little cookie. It was really good, which

782
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:27.559
was not little. A'm on the back it says my

783
00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:30.440
name is Elizabeth Casito. I was born under a banana

784
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:33.239
tree in Africa. My father taught me the business at

785
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:35.599
his bakery when I was just a little girl. This

786
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.239
family tradition came with me to America when I was

787
00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:41.800
just seventeen. The goodie you were enjoying now was prepared

788
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:45.119
by hand at my little bakery in Louisville, Kentucky. Try

789
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:47.840
the other scrumptious treats our family whips up every day.

790
00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:51.480
We mix my father's legacy into every single batch. Thank you.

791
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:52.519
Yeah, it was really good.

792
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.840
It's lovely. Yeah, very good. If you were in the

793
00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:58.360
Louisville area, I would definitely grab a cookie. Thank you,

794
00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.440
lovely daughter, for thinking of us while you were on

795
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.440
your little trip. While he didn't file a PFA, the

796
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:07.880
attorney finally convinced him to file for divorce, but Mark

797
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.840
had to wait for May when he met Delaware's six

798
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.599
month residency requirement. When he left the attorney's office, Mark

799
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:17.599
called Meredith, who was thrilled to hear he had finally

800
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:20.440
made up his mind. Next, he called Mike, who was

801
00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.320
also very happy for his friend. Mike thought Jenneyer was

802
00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:26.000
terrible for Mark, and he was believed that the toxic

803
00:40:26.119 --> 00:40:29.320
relationship was finally coming to an end. So this was

804
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:31.039
part of the problem. I think that they had both

805
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.960
moved to the state before they had residency, so even

806
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:36.920
if Mark had wanted to file for divorce, he wouldn't

807
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:37.440
have been able to.

808
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:39.960
That's interesting. Yeah, I didn't realize there was a time

809
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:42.199
period that had to pass before he could do that.

810
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:44.880
When he broke the news to Jannaire, she didn't react

811
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:47.840
how Mark had anticipated. She cried when he told her,

812
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:50.599
but she seemed resigned to the fate. She sat him

813
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.679
down the next morning and set some terms for the

814
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.960
remainder of their time together, prior to actually filing the

815
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.280
divorce paperwork. She called it the wind down period. Would

816
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:03.639
continue to live together until their lease ended on May thirty. First,

817
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:06.559
they would spend as much time together as possible. They

818
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:09.320
would go for walks, watch their shows, and have dinner together.

819
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:12.400
She wanted him to keep his contact with Meredith to

820
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:15.280
a minimum, and anytime he was going to see Meredith

821
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:18.480
in person. Jannaire insisted that she needed to know when

822
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.639
it was happening. Mark agreed to all of the terms,

823
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.400
Relieved that Jannire seemed to be taking it so well.

824
00:41:24.719 --> 00:41:27.400
He only took issue with her last demand. She wanted

825
00:41:27.400 --> 00:41:30.519
sole custody of their dog Huk and their cat, Gipsy.

826
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:33.119
He didn't care much about the cat, but he loved

827
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:36.599
Huck and didn't want to live without him. They argued fiercely,

828
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:39.800
but eventually Mark relented. He was so tired of living

829
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:42.480
with Janiere that he agreed to it. He would trade

830
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:43.000
Hauk for.

831
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.159
His freedom, and it seems like the least you could do,

832
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:46.119
Mark right.

833
00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:49.599
What Mark didn't know was the night before, while he

834
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.559
slept soundly on the couch, Jannire had stood over him

835
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:54.920
with a gun in her hand and filmed the moment.

836
00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:57.559
In the video, the barrel was aimed at his head.

837
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:00.800
She pulled the trigger, the empty click out into the

838
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:03.800
quiet room. The gun wasn't loaded, but she continued to

839
00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:06.880
pull the trigger over and over, living out her fantasy

840
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.280
of ending his life for the pain he'd caused her.

841
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:13.400
In addition to seeing her divorce, coach Jenneyer also went

842
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:16.079
to a support group for divorced women. She came back

843
00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:20.599
home crying. Consistent with such experiences throughout her life, Jennier

844
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:23.159
hated all the women there and couldn't stand the idea

845
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:26.480
of becoming one of them. Her identity was so tied

846
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:29.320
up in her relationship with Mark, the idea of being

847
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.840
a divorcee was very upsetting to her. She called her

848
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:36.079
Aunt Rose, who had long since been divorced. Jenniyre asked

849
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:38.119
her quote, how long did it take you before you

850
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:41.559
felt better after the divorce? Aunt Rose responded that it

851
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:44.840
took her ten years before she felt herself again. This

852
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.880
was not what Jenny wanted to hear. She didn't have

853
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:51.039
ten years to waste. A plan had been taking shape

854
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:54.320
for some time in Jenniyer's mind, but now it's solidified

855
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:57.400
into the only path. Jenniere felt she had left. There

856
00:42:57.440 --> 00:42:59.920
was no turning back. She went to Cole's and perch

857
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.039
a black hoodie, black joggers, and matching running shoes, remniscent

858
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:05.920
of the time she dressed in all black to free

859
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.440
the trapped squirrel from the clutches of her neighbor. This

860
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:11.800
wasn't a rescue, though, Jannaire also purchased a black wig

861
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.360
and rented a sleek black Cadillac without Mark or Meredith knowing.

862
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.719
She had placed a tracking device on Meredith's car weeks earlier.

863
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:22.400
That's how she found her new address in the upscale

864
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:25.920
Mainline neighborhood of Philadelphia. Mark had even helped Meredith move

865
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:29.239
in just days before. Janneire drove through the area more

866
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.559
than once, carefully studying the streets, watching the patterns of

867
00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:37.119
Meredith's neighborhood. She wasn't just gathering information, she was plotting.

868
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:42.199
Here's more from Jennaer's manifesto that was now twelve pages long. Quote.

869
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:46.159
Mark has become quite defiant and acrimonious and near violent

870
00:43:46.199 --> 00:43:48.400
in his attempt to be with Meredith and start his

871
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:51.119
life with her. He hates me so much now and

872
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.039
is becoming so mean. He's now calling me a lazy

873
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:57.639
freeloader with no intention of getting a job and taking

874
00:43:57.679 --> 00:44:00.760
full advantage of him. The Allen Loney dis discussion turns

875
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:03.880
him into a violent freak. He's gonna screw me. I

876
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:06.000
need to make my own justice. It's the only way

877
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:08.280
to set me free of this pain. It really is.

878
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:10.719
He did this to me. He cannot get away with

879
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:14.199
his unspeakable treatment. He is so inhumane that he deserves

880
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.920
to be hurt in return. He cannot have a beautiful,

881
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:20.599
exciting future and life with her at my expense. He

882
00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:23.360
does not get to replace me. She does not get

883
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:25.360
to have all the things in common and all the

884
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:28.559
connected experiences that are exactly like the ones Mark and

885
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.960
I had. He does not get the right to call

886
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.199
her the loving pet names that he used to call me.

887
00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:36.320
She does not get his undying love and attention and

888
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:40.159
smiles and listening and encouragement, support and protection when he

889
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:42.760
should have given that to me. He does not get

890
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:45.159
to be loved and sexually fulfilled by her when he

891
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:48.639
should and could have been from me. I hope, I

892
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:51.760
hope his dick falls off from her skinky mess. Oh

893
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.480
my spirit is gone. Don't you people understand that I'm

894
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.960
not worth it anymore. I have nothing left to offer.

895
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:59.840
Let me go. She's a parasite, a blood sucking, life

896
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:03.360
sucking parasite, and she needs to be destroyed. It's all

897
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:05.320
I can think about. I just want to blow her

898
00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:07.559
face up and destroy her. I want Mark to have

899
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:10.440
the lasting memories of the visuals of us. Both like

900
00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:13.480
that it's all I dream about. I was scoping out

901
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:16.000
her house. Her house is situated weird in the back

902
00:45:16.039 --> 00:45:18.599
behind other houses, with a long driveway and has a

903
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:20.519
lot of windows that I might not be able to

904
00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:23.280
do if there as I wanted. I really can't hide

905
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.719
while or surprise them without getting caught. I can't have

906
00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:27.639
them see me and call the police before I can

907
00:45:27.679 --> 00:45:29.559
do what I need to do. I may need to

908
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:32.280
do a phil Brynn Hartman if I run out of time,

909
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:35.440
which sucks because Meredith needs to be erased and Mark

910
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:37.960
should not get off that easy. So when she says

911
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:40.119
she wants to do the philiprin Hartman, I think she

912
00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:43.639
means like she would kill him or kill herself. It

913
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:45.559
goes on like that for a while. She's kind of

914
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:47.960
talking in circles, repeating over and over how much she

915
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:50.639
hates Mark and Meredith and how she saw what was

916
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:53.840
about to happen next is a form of justice. She

917
00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:57.480
was consumed with getting justice. One of the more disturbing

918
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.519
aspects of the letter, other than all of them drut talk,

919
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:04.320
which is pretty disturbing, was about her cat Gypsy quote, please,

920
00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:06.760
if nothing else, get Gypsy. I know you will be

921
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:10.239
appalled at my request, but please, as lovingly and peacefully

922
00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:13.280
as possible, please put her to sleep. This request is

923
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.320
an act of love. I'm Gypsy's human, her only human.

924
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:19.639
We are utterly bonded like no other creatures, and she

925
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:22.960
will be beside herself without me. I cannot tolerate the

926
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.960
thought of her being with any strangers and without me.

927
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:28.480
I know you will think this is an awful request

928
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:30.440
and what kind of terrible person I am for putting

929
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:32.960
down this healthy cat. But this really is the right

930
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:35.760
thing to do in her case. It's really sad, isn't it.

931
00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:38.840
Yeah, the whole thing is very sad. The morning of Monday,

932
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:42.280
April twenty third, twenty eighteen started like any other for

933
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:45.079
forty seven year old Jenaire and forty nine year old

934
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:48.239
Mark Girardo. Jenayir was up by five point thirty working

935
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:51.880
on her laptop, sending emails and searching for jobs, while

936
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.079
Mark walked huck showered and dressed before he gave jen

937
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:57.440
Are what would be a final kiss on the cheek

938
00:46:57.679 --> 00:46:59.960
and said I love you before he headed out the door.

939
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:02.960
Jenayre and Mark had plans to meet for dinner later

940
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:07.079
that night. Mark's first stop was Starbucks. He bought two coffees,

941
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:10.599
one for himself and a Grande Blonde roast with extra

942
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:13.599
soy for Meredith. He texted her that he was on

943
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:17.840
his way with coffee. Meredith texted back, quote, huge boyfriend

944
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:20.880
points love you can't wait to see you. Mark only

945
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:23.239
had a couple of minutes to spare, but seeing Meredith

946
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.599
at the start of his day felt worth every second.

947
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:28.440
They had both started their new jobs the week before,

948
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.840
so neither of them could be late. He couldn't have

949
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:33.239
known it would be the last time. In the years

950
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:35.760
that followed. He would hold on tightly to the memory

951
00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.920
of that brief moment, their final kiss, Grateful that he

952
00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:42.480
had seen her on that day. Mark wrote in his book, quote,

953
00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:45.119
we were so head over heels in love it literally

954
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:46.880
hurt for us not to be together.

955
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:50.440
That's how I feel about you, sweetye Pie, every second

956
00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:51.559
of the day same.

957
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:54.639
Jen Eyre had an appointment scheduled later that day with

958
00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:57.599
her divorce coach. She sent her an email to cancel

959
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:01.320
and explained, there's not much to talk about. Then, Jeneyre

960
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:04.239
did laundry, cleaned the apartment, and made her and Mark's

961
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:08.360
beloved Golden retriever huck his special food, boiled chicken hearts

962
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.880
and intestines, turmeric, wild rice, and Brussels sprouts. She carefully

963
00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:16.559
portioned the food into seven containers and put it into

964
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:19.960
the refrigerator. Her last task was to put her financial

965
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:23.119
papers in order and finish writing a twelve page letter

966
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:26.000
to her family explaining why she did the horrible act

967
00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:29.360
that she was determined to accomplish. Later that day, at

968
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:32.440
about noon, Jeneayre set out on her final errands, wearing

969
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:36.239
a dark wig, black joggers, a hoodie, and black sneakers.

970
00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:38.440
She went to a deli that she had been wanting

971
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:41.039
to try for a while and bought an eighteen dollars lunch.

972
00:48:41.440 --> 00:48:44.119
Then Jeneayre went to the shooting range one last time

973
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:47.840
and spent an hour perfecting her aim. At one forty nine,

974
00:48:47.960 --> 00:48:51.400
she called spy Tech's technical support line. She talked to

975
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:54.239
them for twenty eight minutes. We'll never know why she

976
00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:57.079
called in what was discussed, but she had purchased a

977
00:48:57.119 --> 00:49:00.440
GPS device from them for five hundred dollars. At two

978
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.960
forty she got gas and then had a three minute

979
00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:05.800
call with her mom. At three pm, she drove to

980
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:09.880
Meredith Sullivan Chapman's house. She parked her rented black Cadillac

981
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:13.119
two blocks away. To gain entry to the house, Jenayre

982
00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:16.840
brazenly broke a glass panel on the front door, reached inside,

983
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:20.239
unlocked it, and stepped inside. She found a broom and

984
00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:23.719
dustband and carefully cleaned up the shards of glass. Nobody

985
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:26.079
would have noticed, as the door was covered by an

986
00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:30.039
enclosed porch. The house was empty, Meredith was still at work.

987
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:33.320
She had several hours to wait before Meredith would be home.

988
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.440
She probably snooped through Meredith's house, trying to get a

989
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:38.960
better sense of the woman who her husband was leaving

990
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:42.159
her for. Then she sat down and waited. She used

991
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:44.760
her time to respond to all the messages wishing her

992
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:47.519
luck with her surgery. This was a surgery that she

993
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:50.599
had scheduled for the next day. At five point forty two,

994
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:53.880
while leaving Villanova for the day, Meredith made her final

995
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:58.079
Instagram post, a selfie with the caption quote, couldn't be

996
00:49:58.119 --> 00:50:01.519
more excited to be Villanova's new assistant VP for Marketing

997
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:04.440
and Creative Services. Just a week on the job, and

998
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:09.280
I'm already feeling the love from hashtag Nova nation. Meanwhile,

999
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.880
Mark drove to the restaurant where he was meeting Jennyre.

1000
00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:15.559
The restaurant was near Mark's new job. Taking advantage of

1001
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:18.639
the warm spring day, he sat outside in order to drink.

1002
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:21.159
He allowed himself a minute to relax in the sun,

1003
00:50:21.280 --> 00:50:24.119
thinking that soon he would finally meet the six month

1004
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:27.920
residency requirement and he'd be able to file his divorce paperwork.

1005
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:31.599
May tenth couldn't come soon enough. He and Jeneyre were

1006
00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:34.000
still in the marriage wind down stage that she had

1007
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.960
insisted upon. He was trying his best to be decent

1008
00:50:37.000 --> 00:50:39.400
to her. He had agreed to support her until she

1009
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:41.960
found a new job and a place to live. The

1010
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:44.880
dinner out was Mark's attempt to calm Jennire's nerves and

1011
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:48.039
distract her from the next day's surgery. She'd likely be

1012
00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:51.920
housebound in the days following the procedure exploratory with the

1013
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:55.280
possibility of a hysterectomy. Her mother planned to drive to

1014
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:57.440
Delaware the next day to take care of her. While

1015
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:01.159
Jennyre was recovering, Mark two to help care for her.

1016
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:04.800
He was trying to keep things amiable. Although she'd enjoyed

1017
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:08.599
receiving well wishes from friends and relatives, Jeneyre never intended

1018
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:12.159
to follow through with the surgery. Minutes before six pm,

1019
00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:14.880
while Mark waited for Jeneyre, she sent him a text

1020
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.039
she had made a wrong turn and would be late.

1021
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:20.800
He told her that he would order some appetizers. Minutes later,

1022
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:24.000
he received another text from her, quote, I'm not coming

1023
00:51:24.199 --> 00:51:26.920
go home. She attached a picture of what looked like

1024
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:29.880
a trash bin on the sidewalk. Mark could just make

1025
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:33.639
out a used condom among the garbage. Just after six pm,

1026
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:37.480
Meredith pulled her gray Oudy cabriolet into her driveway. She

1027
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:40.159
made her way into her house when she was immediately

1028
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:43.599
ambushed by Jeneyre with a bullet to her head. Whether

1029
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:46.440
it was instant or whether Jeneyre had some final parting

1030
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:49.360
words for her rival, whom she hated so much, we

1031
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:53.519
will never know. In the immediate aftermath, Jeneyre called her neighbor,

1032
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:56.559
whom she had only recently met. In the past few weeks.

1033
00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.679
She had confided some of her relationship problems to this

1034
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:02.440
name and felt she might be a safe person to

1035
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:05.559
talk to. The neighbor didn't pick up, so Jeneyre left

1036
00:52:05.559 --> 00:52:09.079
a voicemail. She whispered in a haunting voice, I've done

1037
00:52:09.079 --> 00:52:12.400
a bad thing. Mark was eating his appetizers when he

1038
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:17.039
received the following texts in rapid succession, you ruined my life.

1039
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:21.719
I hope you never find happiness. Bye Mark. Mark's blood

1040
00:52:21.800 --> 00:52:25.280
ran cold as he read the messages. He quickly called Meredith,

1041
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:29.199
feeling both helpless and responsible. Sitting at the restaurant, unsure

1042
00:52:29.239 --> 00:52:32.639
of what horror Jeneyre had unleashed on Meredith. She wasn't

1043
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:35.800
answering his calls or texts. He bolted from his seat

1044
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:38.960
and sprinted out of the restaurant. Mark raced to Meredith's

1045
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:42.000
house fifteen minutes away. His phone rang as he sped

1046
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.599
through the streets. He looked down to see that Jeneire's

1047
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:46.920
mother was calling him. He didn't have time to take

1048
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:49.360
the call. When he arrived and knocked on the door.

1049
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.719
Meredith didn't answer. Mark walked around the house and peered

1050
00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:56.360
through several windows before he spotted Meredith lying face down

1051
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:58.960
on the floor between the kitchen and the dining room,

1052
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.960
her phone and key still clutched in her hand. He

1053
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:05.440
forced his way inside, panicking and called out to the neighbor,

1054
00:53:05.559 --> 00:53:08.159
who was watching the scene unfold from his porch to

1055
00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:11.079
call nine one one. The neighbor, a man named Tim,

1056
00:53:11.320 --> 00:53:13.320
was on the phone with nine one one when he

1057
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:15.840
walked into the house and checked Meredith for a pulse.

1058
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:19.159
No pulse, Tim told the nine one one operator. Mark

1059
00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:22.199
wept over her body and stroked her hair. It took

1060
00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:24.880
Mark a moment to notice the second body in the room,

1061
00:53:25.239 --> 00:53:28.320
a dark figure slumped on the carpet ten feet from Meredith.

1062
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.199
He squinted into the shadows, trying to make sense of

1063
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.519
what he was seeing. The woman was clearly dead. As

1064
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:38.320
the realization crept in horror washed over him. It was Jennyre,

1065
00:53:38.599 --> 00:53:41.719
dressed in black, wearing a wig, with a single gunshot

1066
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:44.639
wound to the right side of her head. Both Meredith

1067
00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:47.920
and Jennayre's bodies were still warm. Mark hoped that the

1068
00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:51.800
paramedics could save them, but sadly, both women were beyond saving.

1069
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:55.800
The two greatest loves of Mark's life were gone forever.

1070
00:53:56.360 --> 00:53:59.039
Jenayre had shot Meredith on the left side of her head.

1071
00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:02.039
The bullet lodged in her spine and killed her instantly.

1072
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:05.239
Jennayre then turned the gun on herself and shot just

1073
00:54:05.320 --> 00:54:08.320
behind her ear. She fell to the ground. Just two

1074
00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:10.880
bullets were shot, ending both women's lives.

1075
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:13.559
As soon as law enforcement arrived at the scene, they

1076
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:16.079
pulled Mark Gerardo away from the house and rushed him

1077
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:19.519
to the station. In those first chaotic moments, police believed

1078
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:22.239
they were dealing with a double homicide, and Mark, the

1079
00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:26.639
husband caught between two women, was their prime suspect. Mark

1080
00:54:26.719 --> 00:54:30.480
was held for questioning for seven agonizing hours, confined to

1081
00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:34.159
a small, airless interrogation room, left alone for hours at

1082
00:54:34.159 --> 00:54:36.760
a time, he was crawling out of his skin. He

1083
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:39.079
begged the detectives to leave the door open so he

1084
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:42.280
could breathe. He was admonished after he'd wandered into the

1085
00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:45.000
hallway to sit on the floor, unable to tolerate the

1086
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:48.599
closed room any longer. Initially, the police couldn't find the

1087
00:54:48.679 --> 00:54:51.639
murder weapon. Jannaire had fallen on top of the gun,

1088
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:55.039
which cast further suspicion onto Mark. When he was asked

1089
00:54:55.079 --> 00:54:58.400
whether he had shot Meredith and jenneyre Mark responded they

1090
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.519
were shot. His brain was so scrambled he hadn't even

1091
00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:04.519
put together how the women had died. It was a

1092
00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:07.440
grueling night as the police hammered Mark with questions and

1093
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:10.400
treated him like our murderer. He was in shock and

1094
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:13.400
grieving the loss of the two women. When the police

1095
00:55:13.400 --> 00:55:15.719
informed Mark that they were going to search his apartment,

1096
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:19.920
he became nervous. What would they find. Did janneyre trash

1097
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:23.039
the place or worse, kill his pets, or did she

1098
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:26.000
leave evidence to frame him. His cell phone had been

1099
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:28.440
taken by police, so he had to beg them to

1100
00:55:28.599 --> 00:55:32.119
let him use their phone to call Jennier's parents. Although

1101
00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:34.440
Jannaire had never been close to them, Mark cared for

1102
00:55:34.480 --> 00:55:37.639
them deeply. His own mother had suffered from Alzheimer's for

1103
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.360
over a decade, and he saw Becky Cox as a

1104
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:44.039
surrogate mother. Eventually, the police dragged a landline in and

1105
00:55:44.079 --> 00:55:46.480
allowed Mark to make some calls, but that by the

1106
00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:49.519
time he managed to contact the Coxes, they already knew

1107
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.599
that something had happened. Jannaire had emailed her twelve page

1108
00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:56.800
manifesto to her family right before she died, but they

1109
00:55:56.800 --> 00:56:00.400
hadn't yet been made privy to the details's His father,

1110
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:03.360
who had long since gotten sober and tried to repair

1111
00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:07.480
his relationship with his daughter, was distraught. He let out

1112
00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:10.559
a guttural howl before he said, you broke her, Mark,

1113
00:56:10.880 --> 00:56:14.360
You just broke her. Squarely placing much of the blame

1114
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:17.719
at Mark's feet. Jennire's mother was gentler and kept a

1115
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:20.000
hold of her emotions until she got off the phone.

1116
00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:23.559
He said, quote Becky, I'm so sorry. Jenneyre and I

1117
00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:26.280
we've been drifting for a while now, and I know

1118
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:29.639
you have, Becky said, holding back her tears. I told

1119
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:31.519
her to go back to Indiana for a while, but

1120
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:34.840
she wouldn't. She refused to go. I know she could

1121
00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:38.519
be so stubborn, Becky replied, sadly. Mark's next call was

1122
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:40.840
to Mike, his best friend. As soon as he heard

1123
00:56:41.159 --> 00:56:43.559
Mike promised he'd get on the next available plane from

1124
00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:47.559
Key West, where he lived on a houseboat. Eventually, hours later,

1125
00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:50.679
when Jenneire's body was moved, the murder weapon was found

1126
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:53.679
wedged under her body. It was covered with her prints

1127
00:56:53.719 --> 00:56:56.280
and only her prince, so Mark was free to go

1128
00:56:57.000 --> 00:56:59.039
on the drive home. Mark was nervous about what he'd

1129
00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:01.400
find as he unlocked the door to the apartment. Instead,

1130
00:57:01.440 --> 00:57:03.920
he was struck by how tidy Jenneyre had left everything.

1131
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:07.320
The dishes were done, the counters were wiped, the floors swept.

1132
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:09.440
A batch of fresh homemade dog food for Hawk was

1133
00:57:09.480 --> 00:57:11.480
sitting in the fridge. A folder with all of their

1134
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:14.320
banking information was on the counter. She even left a

1135
00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:16.320
note next to the bag of cat food that she'd

1136
00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:19.079
bought a couple of days prior. You'll have to exchange this.

1137
00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:22.360
I got the wrong one. You can get it from Petco. Thankfully.

1138
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:24.400
The police had already been there to search the apartment,

1139
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:27.800
but hadn't caused any damaged. However, they had seized all

1140
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:31.159
of the electronic devices. We'll be back after a break,

1141
00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:41.880
why came to say with Mark. For the following week,

1142
00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:44.320
they spent most of their time in a wine drunk case,

1143
00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:47.480
hiding from the press, who had swarmed Mark's apartment building.

1144
00:57:47.719 --> 00:57:49.840
As soon as they got wind of the story. They

1145
00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.719
checked into a hotel for the week. The headlines did

1146
00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:56.880
not make Mark look good. Husband's affair leads to murder, suicide,

1147
00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:01.440
Former Upstate man's affair leads to ambush killing Pennsylvania wife

1148
00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:06.000
ambush's husband's lover and kills herself. Mark contacted his friends

1149
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:08.159
and told them not to believe everything they were hearing

1150
00:58:08.239 --> 00:58:11.320
in the news. Although the media definitely got the broad

1151
00:58:11.400 --> 00:58:15.280
strokes right, he defended Meredith and said she wasn't being

1152
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:18.960
treated fairly in the media, Although the errors any articles

1153
00:58:19.000 --> 00:58:22.159
made were relatively minor. Some of his friends threw their

1154
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:26.559
support behind him. Others, disgusted by his behavior, distanced themselves,

1155
00:58:26.800 --> 00:58:29.519
and Mark never heard from them again. Among the friends

1156
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:31.880
that Mark texted were the mutual friends that he and

1157
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:35.360
Meredith had shared from the University of Delaware. Days later,

1158
00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:38.960
Mark was contacted by the university police department and told

1159
00:58:39.079 --> 00:58:42.199
that he needed to stop harassing his former co workers.

1160
00:58:42.559 --> 00:58:45.559
Mark had lost much more than the two women he loved.

1161
00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:48.079
Would you turn your back on a friend in this situation.

1162
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:51.880
I don't think so. I mean, he definitely bears some

1163
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:55.800
responsibility for what happened, but ultimately it was jen Era

1164
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:57.920
that did what she did, so I don't think I

1165
00:58:57.920 --> 00:58:58.960
would abandon him.

1166
00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:01.960
Meredith was buried soon after the incident. Mark was not

1167
00:59:02.039 --> 00:59:05.599
welcome at the funeral. Janneire was cremated. Mark picked up

1168
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.519
her ashes and then gave them to her aunt. Tensions

1169
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:10.679
were high, and the loved ones of both women were

1170
00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:13.559
not interested in standing next to the man who they

1171
00:59:13.639 --> 00:59:17.559
blamed for the whole messy saga. Mark moved apartments very quickly,

1172
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:20.599
desperate to escape both a media scrutiny and also the

1173
00:59:20.679 --> 00:59:23.960
memories associated with his old home. It was also paranoid

1174
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.719
about whether Jannire had hidden the last trap for him

1175
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:29.000
the next time he opened a drawer or closet when

1176
00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:31.840
he accidentally set off a bomb. He felt the best

1177
00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:35.000
way to honor Meredith's memory would be to buy himself

1178
00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:38.639
a new car, a gray Audi a three cabriolet, the

1179
00:59:38.679 --> 00:59:39.880
same model she drove.

1180
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:42.360
What a great way to honor her memory.

1181
00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:44.880
Mark Mark kept his head down for a while. He

1182
00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:47.719
started a new job the week before the murder suicide,

1183
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:50.159
and went back just a week later. He poured over

1184
00:59:50.239 --> 00:59:53.599
everything Jannire had left behind on her computer and other

1185
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:58.719
electronic devices. There were hours of her confessional videos, bank statements,

1186
00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:01.679
and hundreds of hours of him, sometimes with Jannia and

1187
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:05.239
sometimes with Meredith. Jannire had transcribed all of the audio

1188
01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:09.880
she'd recorded of Mark, filling twelve note books. He focused

1189
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:12.320
on work at his new resort job and on writing

1190
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:15.440
a book called A Reparable Three Lives, Two Deaths, One

1191
01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:19.119
Story that Needs to be told truthfully. Initially it began

1192
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:21.800
as diary entries. He shared some of his writing with

1193
01:00:21.880 --> 01:00:24.760
his therapist, who told him he should try and publish

1194
01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:27.280
the material. Who knows, he thought maybe it could be

1195
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:30.960
helpful for somebody going through a similar situation. A year

1196
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:33.119
and a half later, his book was finished. He tried

1197
01:00:33.159 --> 01:00:36.039
to find a publisher, but nobody wanted it. It's three

1198
01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:39.320
hundred and sixty seven pages long. In a commentary from

1199
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:42.480
our researcher Owen, oh boy, do you feel the link?

1200
01:00:43.239 --> 01:00:46.760
I read it and it is very repetitive and definitely

1201
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:50.800
self aggrandizing. It isn't an uninteresting read. It's sort of

1202
01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:55.559
fascinating watching how Mark's mind works, but it's an uncomfortable one.

1203
01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:58.400
He comes off as kind of slimy. There's just no

1204
01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:01.000
other way to put It's our ticulate and careful with

1205
01:01:01.079 --> 01:01:04.840
his words, and pretty skilled at affecting compassion. There's definitely

1206
01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:06.960
some part of him that wants to make amends and

1207
01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:09.599
confess all of his sins to the world. There is

1208
01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:11.760
a part of him that wants to be honest, but

1209
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:14.679
there's another part of him that is desperate to deny

1210
01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:17.639
culpability and frame things in a way where he is

1211
01:01:17.679 --> 01:01:21.239
the hero, and the book constantly teeters between two different marks.

1212
01:01:21.519 --> 01:01:24.199
Now that's Owen's commentary, and I agree with it because

1213
01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:27.000
he seems like he wants people to sympathize with him

1214
01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:29.360
because he's like, I'm being honest. He talks about this

1215
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:31.239
a lot, like I'm really this is the honest story.

1216
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:34.400
This is what happens. But you can tell it's he's

1217
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:38.159
looking for empathy. Marky cited to self publish and to

1218
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:41.280
donate all of the profits to suicide prevention, but when

1219
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:44.519
he tried to make that happen, every single suicide prevention

1220
01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:47.800
organization refused to touch the money with a ten foot pole.

1221
01:01:48.079 --> 01:01:50.239
They did not want to be affiliated with him in

1222
01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:53.440
any way, so instead the profits were donated to a

1223
01:01:53.480 --> 01:01:57.599
Golden retriever rescue organization, which is also very nice. One

1224
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.440
of the paragraphs from Jennyer's final notes said quote, I

1225
01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:03.119
hope the results of what I do lead him to

1226
01:02:03.199 --> 01:02:06.800
a stressful, guilt and shame wridden existence. I hope all

1227
01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:10.039
his friends and family reject him. And this really is

1228
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:12.519
the whole point. I hope he spends the rest of

1229
01:02:12.519 --> 01:02:16.480
his miserable life being rejected like I was rejected for jobs,

1230
01:02:16.559 --> 01:02:19.719
rejected by love, rejected by friendship, rejected by his family,

1231
01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:24.719
rejected by final financial freedom, rejected by life, over and over.

1232
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:28.199
This is true payback for his projection of me and

1233
01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:30.280
my love and commitment for us.

1234
01:02:30.639 --> 01:02:33.440
Well, you can just feel the anger that she has

1235
01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:34.039
for him.

1236
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:36.880
Definitely, she really hated him at the end, but she

1237
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:39.480
also still loved him. Here's a quote from the last

1238
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:42.840
chapter of Mark's book that indicates that Jennier's wishes may

1239
01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:45.480
have come true to some effect. Quote, how do you

1240
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:48.239
look at someone with whom you've shared half your life

1241
01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:51.199
and say, Eh, I've had enough, I want something else.

1242
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:53.960
The fact is as hard as it is to say

1243
01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:56.719
and to write, the love I had for Meredith didn't

1244
01:02:56.719 --> 01:02:59.239
even come close to the love Jennai and I had

1245
01:02:59.239 --> 01:03:02.679
built and shared. It just didn't. How could it? Twenty

1246
01:03:02.679 --> 01:03:05.719
four weeks will never be equivalent of twenty four years.

1247
01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:09.440
Despite the downs and ups, the suspicions, the mistrust, and

1248
01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:12.559
the late night, knock down, drag out verbal battles Jennire

1249
01:03:12.599 --> 01:03:15.880
and I had shared, and the laughter, excitement and intimacy

1250
01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:19.400
Meredith and I had shared, it just won't. Currently Mark

1251
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:22.159
works for a branding agency called BBK and lives in

1252
01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:24.719
Los Angeles. He appears to have a new woman in

1253
01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:27.400
his life, a pretty blonde. I stalked his social media

1254
01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:30.159
and saw a couple of pictures of the of them together.

1255
01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:34.000
He looks happy, She's very pretty. He did not honor

1256
01:03:34.079 --> 01:03:36.360
Jennyre's last request to kill Gypsy the cat.

1257
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:37.719
I was going to ask you about that.

1258
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.519
She has since died. Mark had her cremated and her

1259
01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:44.559
ashes were buried next to Jenneyer. Jannaia Cox Girardo loved birds,

1260
01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:48.000
the color purple, and motown music. She was innately kind,

1261
01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:52.400
a pacifist, a lover of animals and nature. Meredith Sullivan

1262
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:55.519
Chapman was a dynamic woman with a strong work ethic

1263
01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:59.239
and an effervescent spirit. A cheerleader for all. She wanted

1264
01:03:59.239 --> 01:04:01.639
to make a difference the world, and it's very sad

1265
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:04.320
that she was taken from the world too soon. Rest

1266
01:04:04.360 --> 01:04:07.559
in peace, Jennire and Meredith. So when I read Mark's book,

1267
01:04:07.719 --> 01:04:10.159
I wondered how Jenneyre would feel about it. And here's

1268
01:04:10.199 --> 01:04:13.719
a quote from her own hand quote, Tell everyone and anyone.

1269
01:04:14.239 --> 01:04:16.119
I want everyone to know what they did to me.

1270
01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:18.960
I want her parents, her grandma, his family, and their

1271
01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:22.199
coworkers and friends and everyone in Newark, Delaware to know

1272
01:04:22.400 --> 01:04:24.360
what they did and how they did it, and what

1273
01:04:24.440 --> 01:04:27.000
they did to me to cause this. I lived alive,

1274
01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:30.119
this entire marriage. I feel so foolish for devoting my

1275
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:32.679
entire self to it. Now I got nothing. I am

1276
01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:35.039
here now because I was so stupid in love and

1277
01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:38.119
careless with my own life. After Mark told her that

1278
01:04:38.199 --> 01:04:40.639
he'd be filing for a divorce as soon as possible,

1279
01:04:40.719 --> 01:04:43.760
Jenneire wrote, quote, the past twenty four years were a

1280
01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:47.199
complete waste. All the memories you made are too painful

1281
01:04:47.199 --> 01:04:50.079
to remember. If only you were dead, at least then

1282
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:53.760
I could remember them fondly. Loving someone unconditionally is a

1283
01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:56.599
true gift, and he shit all over it. I need

1284
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.440
retribution for what he did to me. He doesn't deserve

1285
01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:01.840
to be happy with her. He did not return the

1286
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:04.639
law and support that I gave him equally. He took

1287
01:05:04.760 --> 01:05:07.400
and took and took from me. He was selfish and

1288
01:05:07.519 --> 01:05:11.880
immature and always thought of himself first. We're almost there.

1289
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:15.800
A legal battle over Meredith's life insurance policies ensued after

1290
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:18.920
her death between Luke Chapman and her mother. The divorce

1291
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:21.639
had been finalized two weeks before her death, but the

1292
01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:25.280
beneficiary had not been changed. Luke I believe won the

1293
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:28.599
court case. Mark has struggled to make sense of what happened.

1294
01:05:28.639 --> 01:05:31.360
And his part in it. He began drinking heavily and

1295
01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:35.760
is now in AA. He now lives in Los Angeles.

1296
01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:38.400
I wanted to go through and just list all of

1297
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:42.599
the crazy things that Jenneira did. She illegally recorded Mark

1298
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:45.280
and Meredith. She put trackers on their cars. She called

1299
01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:49.079
and emailed Luke several times. She called the University of Delaware,

1300
01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:52.800
she called the Villanova University. She sent Marks underwear for

1301
01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:57.360
DNA analysis. She stalked them both in person. She also

1302
01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:01.760
stalked Meredith's house. She broke in Mark's opice at University

1303
01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:06.039
of Delaware. She spied on Meredith like with binoculars. She

1304
01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:08.880
cloned Mark's phone. I'm probably missing a couple of things,

1305
01:06:08.880 --> 01:06:11.119
but that was really intense, wasn't it.

1306
01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:14.880
Well, Yeah, for sure. She was obviously, like really obsessed

1307
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:17.480
over the whole thing and couldn't get it out of

1308
01:06:17.480 --> 01:06:17.920
her mind.

1309
01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:21.000
Do you think if Mark had leveled with Jenaire, would

1310
01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:22.719
there be a different outcome? Possibly?

1311
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:25.639
I mean, for sure, there possibly would have been, and

1312
01:06:25.679 --> 01:06:28.000
it would have been a much better approach on his

1313
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:30.880
part to just, you know, level with her and get

1314
01:06:30.920 --> 01:06:33.159
it on the table and make a clean break of it.

1315
01:06:33.159 --> 01:06:36.320
It just seems like he was so indecisive. He wanted

1316
01:06:36.440 --> 01:06:38.519
he kind of wanted the best of both worlds. He

1317
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:41.440
didn't want to leave jen Eyre behind, but he didn't

1318
01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:43.920
want to leave Meredith behind either, And so, like we

1319
01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:46.960
talked about earlier, he handled the whole thing really poorly.

1320
01:06:47.000 --> 01:06:48.440
And there's no way to know if there would have

1321
01:06:48.440 --> 01:06:50.760
been a different outcome, but there certainly would have been

1322
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:53.239
a much better chance for a different outcome if he

1323
01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:54.719
had been much more upfront.

1324
01:06:55.039 --> 01:06:57.880
Yeah, definitely, So you think he was culpable. He has some.

1325
01:06:58.840 --> 01:06:59.280
Lam in this.

1326
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:01.960
Sure, I think he has some blame. I mean, I

1327
01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:05.000
don't know. I'm hesitant to blame someone else when someone

1328
01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:07.559
doesn't act like murders someone.

1329
01:07:07.320 --> 01:07:10.320
Or well, I think if Mark knew that jen Eyre

1330
01:07:10.360 --> 01:07:13.039
had purchased a gun, he would have acted in a

1331
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:15.480
different manner. Definitely, Yeah, for sure.

1332
01:07:15.960 --> 01:07:17.960
So I don't know. I was just thinking, like, he

1333
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:20.440
definitely bears some culpability. But at the end of the day,

1334
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:23.119
jen Eyre is the one who committed this act, so

1335
01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:23.800
you know.

1336
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:25.920
She pretty obviously wasn't will either.

1337
01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:28.800
Yeah, she definitely had a mental break and was not

1338
01:07:28.920 --> 01:07:29.760
doing well mentally.

1339
01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:31.719
Why didn't Jennyer just kill Mark.

1340
01:07:32.559 --> 01:07:34.800
I don't know. I mean, I think she just I

1341
01:07:34.840 --> 01:07:38.000
think she blamed Meredith as much as she blamed Mark

1342
01:07:38.079 --> 01:07:41.199
for what happened, right or wrong. And you know, it

1343
01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:43.440
seems like that was sort of her backup plan, was

1344
01:07:43.480 --> 01:07:45.920
to kill Mark and then herself. But it seemed like

1345
01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:48.599
she really wanted him to live with the loss and

1346
01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:51.719
the guilt and the pain of losing Meredith as well

1347
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:52.159
as her.

1348
01:07:52.360 --> 01:07:54.480
Yeah, she wanted the rest of his days to be miserable.

1349
01:07:54.639 --> 01:07:55.039
Yeah.

1350
01:07:55.119 --> 01:07:57.119
Would Mark and Meredith have lasted?

1351
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:01.800
I mean, who doo? I don't know, what do you think?

1352
01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:05.840
I believe Mark told Jennayre that he wasn't even sure

1353
01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:09.800
that they would last. He wanted his freedom first and foremost.

1354
01:08:10.719 --> 01:08:14.519
Meredith had moved to this new house and Jenayre and

1355
01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:16.439
Mark still live together. I think that was part of

1356
01:08:16.479 --> 01:08:18.920
the problem. Is Mark was still going to have to

1357
01:08:18.920 --> 01:08:22.880
be financially responsible for Jennaire, but he was not going

1358
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:24.680
to move in with Meredith. He was going to get

1359
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:27.439
his own place, and then Jennaire was going to get

1360
01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:30.800
her own place. So although he and Meredith were in love,

1361
01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:34.319
he did he was aware enough to know that he

1362
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:38.560
shouldn't jump right into you like a serious relationship with Meredith.

1363
01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:41.479
He did say I need to take some time, So

1364
01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:43.840
I think he did have some doubts that the relationship

1365
01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:45.880
would run its course. And he did worry about the

1366
01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:49.680
age difference too. Jennayer said in the Bad Bad Thing podcast,

1367
01:08:49.760 --> 01:08:53.000
in a conversation, said something about how she he had

1368
01:08:53.039 --> 01:08:55.720
some like some knack issues or something, and she was

1369
01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:59.840
giving him a massage one night and Mark said, oh,

1370
01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:01.840
Meredith can't do it, like you can't.

1371
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:05.800
Interesting. Well, even sounds like there was one passage from

1372
01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:08.680
his book that you read that it sounded like, maybe

1373
01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:11.199
it was hindsight, but he was talking about the fact

1374
01:09:11.239 --> 01:09:13.640
that he and Meredith could never have had what he

1375
01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:16.199
and jen Eyre had together. So even in that sort

1376
01:09:16.199 --> 01:09:19.279
of sounds like he was not necessarily thinking of Meredith

1377
01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:21.000
as like his lifelong partner.

1378
01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:23.000
I think you can look at the situation and say

1379
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:26.000
Mark was just scared to make the jump, But I

1380
01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:28.920
do think that he was conflicted that he did still

1381
01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:31.279
love Jenaire, which is kind of crazy, like all the

1382
01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:34.119
things that she did, Like if I did even two

1383
01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:36.840
of those things, I think you'd be like, girl, Oh yeah,

1384
01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:37.439
you're crazy.

1385
01:09:37.479 --> 01:09:40.920
I'm out, huge, huge red flag. I would be like, yeah.

1386
01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:43.960
He did keep making excuses for her.

1387
01:09:44.600 --> 01:09:44.800
Yeah.

1388
01:09:44.800 --> 01:09:47.319
Like Meredith I think was like Mark, she's crazy, Like,

1389
01:09:47.399 --> 01:09:50.319
you know, you can't keep doing this, but he just,

1390
01:09:50.720 --> 01:09:52.439
you know, kept making excuses.

1391
01:09:52.600 --> 01:09:52.840
Yeah.

1392
01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:55.720
If there's one thing that I can give credit to

1393
01:09:55.760 --> 01:09:58.960
Mark for, it's that most men, I don't think would

1394
01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:01.359
think about it this mom and realized, like, you know,

1395
01:10:01.399 --> 01:10:04.600
we've been together for over twenty years and you can't

1396
01:10:04.680 --> 01:10:07.359
get that back that time, like that time that our

1397
01:10:07.720 --> 01:10:11.199
history together is important. It's part of who you are.

1398
01:10:11.239 --> 01:10:13.439
It's part of who I am. And Mark I think

1399
01:10:13.520 --> 01:10:15.000
really did understand that.

1400
01:10:15.319 --> 01:10:17.800
Yeah, Yeah, for sure. One thing I was thinking about

1401
01:10:17.880 --> 01:10:21.159
is how much like their move to Delaware and her

1402
01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:23.600
being unemployed, like the timing of the whole thing was

1403
01:10:23.680 --> 01:10:26.279
really bad, and I was wondering how much he think

1404
01:10:26.399 --> 01:10:29.239
like that contributed to this as well, Like if he

1405
01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:32.199
had been when they were settled in was it North Carolina,

1406
01:10:32.399 --> 01:10:35.119
South Carols South Carolina when they were settled there, like

1407
01:10:35.199 --> 01:10:37.720
she probably had friends and had a life, and if

1408
01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:40.119
he had sort of been upfront and kind of ended

1409
01:10:40.119 --> 01:10:42.359
things when she still lived there, if that would have

1410
01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:43.119
made a difference.

1411
01:10:43.239 --> 01:10:45.039
That was actually going to be my next point. That's

1412
01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:47.239
one of the things that makes me most angry is

1413
01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:52.399
having Jenny move to Delaware was really unfair, right, Yeah,

1414
01:10:52.560 --> 01:10:54.600
Like she could have stayed and not been and she

1415
01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.560
wouldn't have been as immersed in the situation as she was.

1416
01:10:57.600 --> 01:10:58.840
I mean, she wouldn't have been able to do the

1417
01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:01.199
spying that she did, and you know all those other things.

1418
01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:03.880
So yeah, that was super unfair of him to not

1419
01:11:04.039 --> 01:11:06.039
just level with her and be like, hey, you stay

1420
01:11:06.079 --> 01:11:09.800
here in South Carolina. I'll And another thing in the podcast.

1421
01:11:09.800 --> 01:11:12.479
In the book, he talks a lot about how, you know,

1422
01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:15.399
at forty seven years old, you know, what could she

1423
01:11:15.600 --> 01:11:19.479
expect from life? And it was how she saw herself too,

1424
01:11:19.560 --> 01:11:21.960
like there was, you know, not much life left to live.

1425
01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:24.920
And that really breaks my heart because really, say, forty

1426
01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:28.199
seven is really not fifty seven, sixty seven, seventies, Like,

1427
01:11:28.319 --> 01:11:30.520
it's just you always have life left to live. There's

1428
01:11:30.560 --> 01:11:33.680
always things to look forward to, and sure you might

1429
01:11:33.720 --> 01:11:35.439
not look like you did when you were twenty two,

1430
01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:38.600
but gosh, she's still a beautiful woman who had things

1431
01:11:38.600 --> 01:11:41.920
to offer. She loved the animals so much. I wish

1432
01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:45.199
that Mark would have encouraged her to Nicole work at

1433
01:11:45.199 --> 01:11:48.760
a veterinary clinic. Yeah, get her a puppy, or you know,

1434
01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:52.239
just have her a volunteer at the Humane Society. There

1435
01:11:52.239 --> 01:11:54.039
are things that I think that she still could have

1436
01:11:54.079 --> 01:11:55.359
gotten joy out of life.

1437
01:11:55.479 --> 01:11:57.399
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's one of the things

1438
01:11:57.439 --> 01:12:00.439
that was saddest listening to you telling the story of

1439
01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:03.600
this case is just her feelings about herself and her

1440
01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:06.520
feelings like that she had no opportunity to make a

1441
01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:09.640
new life, and it is just so sad that someone

1442
01:12:09.680 --> 01:12:13.119
can get that stuck and feel like they just have

1443
01:12:13.239 --> 01:12:13.920
no options.

1444
01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:17.600
You know, we should never diagnose anyone with a psychological condition,

1445
01:12:18.039 --> 01:12:22.600
but Jennair definitely has some markers of borderline personality disorder.

1446
01:12:23.000 --> 01:12:25.399
I'm going to read you a few of the characteristics

1447
01:12:25.399 --> 01:12:30.720
of that. Intense mood swings, fear of abandonment, unstable relationships,

1448
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:33.479
and if you go back to Jennair's childhood, she had

1449
01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:37.560
few and few friends in her life, chronic feelings of emptiness,

1450
01:12:37.640 --> 01:12:42.640
distorted self image, disassociation or paranoid thoughts under stress, leading

1451
01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:46.399
to a sense of detachment from reality and self harm.

1452
01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:50.039
For people with borderline personality disorder, one of the worst

1453
01:12:50.079 --> 01:12:51.960
things that you can do to them is tell them

1454
01:12:52.000 --> 01:12:55.039
that you're going to leave. The fear of abandonment is

1455
01:12:55.600 --> 01:12:58.119
just part of who they are. It's like anchored into

1456
01:12:58.159 --> 01:12:58.840
their souls.

1457
01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:00.119
Interesting word.

1458
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:04.479
Aline personality disorder is one of the more common psychological dysfunctions.

1459
01:13:04.600 --> 01:13:07.439
It affects about two percent of the general population, and

1460
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:12.319
therapy and medication can help. It affects women more commonly

1461
01:13:12.359 --> 01:13:16.640
than men, and it's vastly underdiagnosed. Interesting and the Bad

1462
01:13:16.680 --> 01:13:20.159
Bad Thing podcast. There's a psychologist who the host talks

1463
01:13:20.199 --> 01:13:22.960
to and she helps her guide her through all of this,

1464
01:13:23.600 --> 01:13:27.000
and in the first five or six episodes, she breaks

1465
01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:29.760
down the personality traits and behaviors of the people involved

1466
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:33.760
in this case. And the host wanted the psychologists to

1467
01:13:33.800 --> 01:13:36.520
meet with Mark, but Mark was offended by some of

1468
01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:39.359
the words she used to describe him. She called him

1469
01:13:39.359 --> 01:13:43.960
a narcissist. When he finally did agree to meet with her,

1470
01:13:44.199 --> 01:13:46.319
he was like, well, I'm not a narcissist, and this

1471
01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:49.039
is why. And then she was like, well, Mark, one

1472
01:13:49.079 --> 01:13:52.520
of the characteristics of being a narcissist is being defensive,

1473
01:13:52.520 --> 01:13:55.079
and you're being very defensive right now. It was just

1474
01:13:55.159 --> 01:13:56.000
kind of interesting.

1475
01:13:56.119 --> 01:13:59.600
Interesting. I don't know a lot about different psychological disorders.

1476
01:13:59.600 --> 01:14:01.960
But the one thing about her behavior that kind of

1477
01:14:01.960 --> 01:14:05.680
made me wonder was maybe there was some obsessive compulsive

1478
01:14:05.960 --> 01:14:08.680
behavior there as well, because it seemed like she couldn't

1479
01:14:09.399 --> 01:14:12.159
couldn't stop, she couldn't stop thinking about what was going on.

1480
01:14:12.319 --> 01:14:14.880
She wanted all the details and so but maybe that's

1481
01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:18.319
also part of borderline personality disorder. I'm not really sure.

1482
01:14:18.560 --> 01:14:21.239
Mark said that he thought that she may have become

1483
01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:25.640
murderous even if the meritith piece hadn't happened, and I

1484
01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:28.119
don't agree with that at all. There is a Doctor

1485
01:14:28.159 --> 01:14:32.319
Oz episode where he appeared, and if you look on YouTube,

1486
01:14:32.359 --> 01:14:34.479
I think there's a few other interviews that he did.

1487
01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:38.119
I think he really tried to be as honest as

1488
01:14:38.159 --> 01:14:41.680
he could be, but obviously there's some things that, you know,

1489
01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:43.760
he was probably holding.

1490
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:45.039
Back a little bit. Yeah, yeah, sure.

1491
01:14:45.159 --> 01:14:48.319
I think he wanted he wants the public to sympathize

1492
01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:51.199
with him, and I think that's just really hard to happen.

1493
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:00.880
Right before we go, I wanted to tell everyone about

1494
01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:04.199
a new show that I found when I was in

1495
01:15:04.279 --> 01:15:08.680
bed with my bad last week. But Colin from accounting,

1496
01:15:08.920 --> 01:15:12.880
Oh no, Colin from accounts, callin from accounts it's from Australia,

1497
01:15:13.039 --> 01:15:15.880
so our friends in Australia. Hopefully you're probably already watching this.

1498
01:15:16.000 --> 01:15:18.560
But it's so funny and sweet. I really loved it.

1499
01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:21.159
I really like it too. I'm almost through the first season,

1500
01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:24.079
and yeah, it's very just a sweet show.

1501
01:15:24.640 --> 01:15:27.920
It's funny if you have like a you know, a

1502
01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:28.680
ten year old.

1503
01:15:29.079 --> 01:15:31.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's definitely not for kills teeky.

1504
01:15:31.479 --> 01:15:34.680
But yeah, I think it's such a refreshing show.

1505
01:15:34.760 --> 01:15:38.079
Yeah. The main characters are both like very likable but human,

1506
01:15:38.439 --> 01:15:41.319
like they're not they're not perfect, but they're just interesting.

1507
01:15:41.399 --> 01:15:44.039
And yeah, so I've really been enjoying that. We're saving

1508
01:15:44.520 --> 01:15:47.800
Like I binged the first eight the first season, which

1509
01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:50.159
is eight episodes, and then I was like, I think

1510
01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:52.520
you might like the show, and grateful you did. We

1511
01:15:52.560 --> 01:15:53.279
are going away.

1512
01:15:53.720 --> 01:15:57.279
We are taking a little I'm so looking forward to spend.

1513
01:15:57.760 --> 01:15:59.239
Break even working so hard.

1514
01:15:59.279 --> 01:16:01.199
Yeah, we are going to take a four day weekend

1515
01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:04.159
next weekend and go up north, going up north, going

1516
01:16:04.239 --> 01:16:05.199
up to Traverse City.

1517
01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:08.199
Yeah, we're excited. We were going to go south to

1518
01:16:08.239 --> 01:16:09.399
try to hit a BUCkies, but.

1519
01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:13.159
Your obsession with BUCkies will have to wait for a while.

1520
01:16:13.680 --> 01:16:16.159
Keeps sending me pictures from their BUCkies runs and it's

1521
01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:19.239
making me really sad. Actually, we have some snacks BUCkies.

1522
01:16:19.520 --> 01:16:21.319
My sister sent us some.

1523
01:16:20.960 --> 01:16:23.760
Considered our friend Sam. Yeah, so we have a double.

1524
01:16:23.800 --> 01:16:26.000
We got good connections to even if we can't get

1525
01:16:26.039 --> 01:16:27.520
to BUCkies ourselves.

1526
01:16:27.319 --> 01:16:30.000
We sure do. And last weekend we saw Sinners at

1527
01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.960
the theater and we just wanted to get out. We

1528
01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:36.079
had had no idea what that movie was. It was

1529
01:16:36.119 --> 01:16:38.680
such a wild ride. I loved it.

1530
01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:41.239
I did too, and I would recommend if you don't

1531
01:16:41.279 --> 01:16:43.800
know anything about it, go see it without reading anything

1532
01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:45.520
about it, because it's really just.

1533
01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:48.319
It's kind of I don't want to give anything away. Yeah,

1534
01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:51.039
but it might not be for everyone. But we both

1535
01:16:51.079 --> 01:16:53.880
really enjoyed it. I hope you do too. I just

1536
01:16:53.920 --> 01:16:56.640
remembered something that I forgot to mention. Jenny Are really

1537
01:16:56.720 --> 01:16:59.640
did love animals, and Meredith had a dog. She loved,

1538
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:04.079
her little white dog named Indy. And before Jennair did anything,

1539
01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:06.560
she put Indy in a room and closed the door

1540
01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:08.880
behind her to make sure that Indy was safe and

1541
01:17:08.920 --> 01:17:11.840
didn't have to, you know, see what was happening. So

1542
01:17:12.119 --> 01:17:13.199
I thought that was kind of sweet.

1543
01:17:13.279 --> 01:17:13.960
Yeah.

1544
01:17:14.039 --> 01:17:16.680
Well, Thank you to Amy for recommending this case. Thank

1545
01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:19.399
you to Ashley and Emma for the snacks. Well, let

1546
01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:22.680
us know on Spotify or social media what you think

1547
01:17:22.680 --> 01:17:25.159
about this case. And please go listen to the Bad

1548
01:17:25.239 --> 01:17:27.520
Bad Thing podcast and let me know what you think

1549
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:29.840
of that too. Thank you so much for your support.

1550
01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:32.000
The only reason there's a podcast is because you guys

1551
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:35.039
continue to listen. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe. Find

1552
01:17:35.079 --> 01:17:37.279
us on social media, or send us an email at

1553
01:17:37.279 --> 01:17:39.079
Lovemrykill at gmail dot com.

1554
01:17:39.199 --> 01:17:42.560
Consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash love Marykill.

1555
01:17:42.640 --> 01:17:44.920
We have one tier for five dollars a month. You

1556
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:48.359
get early ad free access plus a monthly bonus.

1557
01:17:47.960 --> 01:17:49.359
Episode until next time.

1558
01:17:49.560 --> 01:18:06.920
Don't Kill your wife and Don't Kill your husband to

1559
01:18:24.600 --> 01:18:33.039
companion with the