Jennifer and Fotis Dulos

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Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
some days you'll feel like killing your husband,

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and some days you'll feel like killing
your wife. Welcome to love,

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Mary Kill, Hey Tina, Hey
Rich, how are you? I'm hungry.

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I'm just here with the snacks that
we do. Have a couple of

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snacks here. They're from Perfect Canada. Thought you said you got something different.

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I did, but we just went
to Canada, so I thought we

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should use the snacks that we bought
from. Well, no, I'm curious.

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The other snack is Yeah, snack's
not that exciting. Neither are the

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Canadian snacks really no offense to the
Canadians. I mean they're just pretzels and

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oh I think they're pretty interesting though
they're unique. Okay, yeah, so

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yeah, we just got back from
Canada. We did tell our listeners about

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our lovely trip. We just we
went to Toronto. We skipped American Thanksgiving

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and we had it over the border, which was a little scary because that

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there was an incident on the Rainbow
Bridge, which isn't the bridge where we

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crossed, but we were in that
almost exact area when it happened, Yeah,

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a little bit. We had a
great time. I don't think we

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need to believe the point, but
it was. It was super fun because

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our son, who was nineteen,
is not of legal drinking age in the

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United States, but in Canada you
need to be nineteen, and so we

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got to got to go out and
have a couple of cocktails with our kids.

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Yeah, which sounds unhealthy, but
we had a good time. Comedy

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club Yuck Yucks. It was not
the best comedy in the world. Well

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you said the name, and then
it's the best thing. They tried real

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hard to make us laugh. I'm
sure some days are better than others at

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Yuck Yucks. But the night we
went was Yeah, we had a good

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time. We left the place where
we stayed though, that was then the

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most amazing spot that we could have
hard. It was your birthday present,

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so it was We spent a fair
bed on the Airbnb, but it was

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a penthouse. It was on what
the fiftieth floor, forty ninth floor,

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Yeah, and it was right downtown
Toronto. It was like, right,

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you're the tower and those views were
just I will not forget that view anytime.

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So it was really cool, astonishing, was beautiful. I loved it.

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Yeah, it was a nice trip. It was a really good trip.

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Oh. You know what, before
we started recording, you were like,

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are you ready? Because you were
annoyed with me because I was looking

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at my phone. You looked a
little distracted, and I said, no

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letter rip, which was the biggest
mistake of my life. Why I don't

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get it. Well, let's not
go into it. I don't think people

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need to know about your your issue
if you've been married for any amount of

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time. I think our listeners know. All right when I'm referring to we

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should move on. Yeah, all
right, do you want to try these

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snacks? Sure? But I noticed
that you did bring the paprika pringles.

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Oh yeah, which, well,
we already ate a lot of those while

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we were Yeah, we had a
whole can of them. They're so good.

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Shout out to the Pringles people because
the Paprika pringles are so good.

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Our friend Asha gave us some paprika
chips from Poland and I really liked those,

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But the Paprika pringles were amazing.
Yeah, they need to bring them

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overka Pringles, they need to bring
them over here to the States. Yeah,

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all right, So the two snacks
that we did bring back though are

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pretty unique. One is maple and
brown butter pretzels. Pop Daddy is the

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brand name maple and brown butter pretzel
sticks, which seems interesting. And then

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the other one is that Indian everything
in Canada just put a little maple syrup

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in it. There's a lot of
Yeah. Well it was super fun too,

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because, like our son used to
work for McDonald's and we like McDonald's.

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Like, if there's a fast food
place that we frequent, it would

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be, you know, McDonald's would
be our choice to go to the bathroom

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and get a soda. And someone
actually made fun of me in Canada for

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saying soda, but we like,
so we're going into McDonald's and it's a

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whole it's a wholly different. It's
it was really okay, it's not it's

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not completely different, but they do
have quite a bigger variety of things.

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I am jealous of our Canadian friends
who have so many more options than we

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have here in the United States.
Yeah. So the other snack is Kurkura

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massala munch, which sounds it's like
an Indian snack like it it looks like

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Cheetos. I think it's just like
an Indian flavored Cheeto. It's an explosion

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of spicy chat PoTA taste in your
mouth. I bought a bat one of

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the cool things. Like in Michigan, we don't have service areas. You

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just have to keep driving and you
stop and then you have to get up

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the highway and you have to find
a gas station or McDonald's. So I

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really like a good service station.
So we stopped several times to get snacks.

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Not that it's not gonna surprise anyone, but I think our I gave

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him a bag of those and he
ate them. Oh really yeah, yeah,

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so that is the second bag that
so they must have been good.

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Cool. All right, Well let's
take a quick break and we'll try these

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and we'll be right back. What
did you think? I thought they were

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both really good. The Sala munch
is a little spicy mouth is kind of

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on fire. Really good. I
love like a regular Cheeto so much.

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I wish that we just had a
cheddar cheese flavor. But this is nice

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if you're like like a spicy,
spicy or Cheeto profinitely has a little bit

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of Indian food flavor too. Yeah, I would would eat them again,

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and the pretzels delicious. I didn't
like the pretzels tasted weird to me.

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They were yeah, they were good, but they just tasted odd. Okay,

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Well more for me, all right? Would you like me to tell

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you about a case? I would
love to, but I'm gonna do a

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little shopping Black Friday shopping. Okay, don't let me, don't let me

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this stir of you. Yeah.
Today, the case I'm going to cover

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is a request from our listener,
Kelly. Thank you Kelly for Kelly giving

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us this request. Interesting case.
It is the story of Jennifer and Photus

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dulos fotus fotus fotis. So I'm
going to talk through this story, but

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just a heads up. I gave
you some lines to you. You did

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and I have not looked them over. In true Tina fashion, Yeah,

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you are going to be the voice
of Jennifer in today's case. In the

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peaceful town of New Canaan, Connecticut, Jennifer, we almost live there.

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We almost lived in Connecticut, not
New Canaan. Okay, where is New

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Canaan. New Canaan is in the
very far southwest corner of Connecticut. We

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were going to live in Danbury,
Connecticut, which is a big airfield.

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There was several towns we looked at. Yeah, that was many, many,

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many moons ago. It was all
right, let me start over again

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in the peaceful town of New Canaan, Connecticut. Jennifer Dulos dropped off her

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five kids at school on May twenty
fourth, nineteen, just like any other

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day, but then she vanished without
a trace. Investigators quickly turned their attention

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to Jennifer's estranged husband, Fotus Dulos. Their messy divorce had been dragging on

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for almost two years, and Jennifer
had said that she was afraid of Fotus.

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But was he responsible for her disappearance
and if so, what happened and

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where was she? Jennifer Farber was
born in nineteen sixty eight and grew up

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in New York City near Greenwich Village
off of Fifth Avenue. Her dad,

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Hilliard Farber, was a highly successful
banker. Her mom, Gloria, was

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a well known philanthropist who got involved
in causes benefiting children, with a focus

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on education. The family was certainly
wealthy. Jennifer's uncle, a Gloria's brother,

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was married to Liz Claiborne, and
together they founded the women's clothing company

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that would become a billion dollar business. Jennifer went to the prestigious Brown University,

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where she first met Fotus Dulos,
a Greetek immigrant who she would eventually

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marry. The two met during Jennifer's
first week at school, but she didn't

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see him much after that. It
would be seventeen years later that they would

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reconnect and start dating. Jennifer graduated
from Brown in nineteen ninety, and then

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she went to New York University's Tish
School of Arts to pursue her Master of

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Fine Arts in writing. Friends say
she found her voice during the MFA program,

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and for the next decade she wrote
with passion and focus. According to

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Carrie Luft, one of Jennifer's closest
friends. During that time, Jennifer wrote

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four full length plays, and she
also completed a first draft of a novel.

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Jennifer, Carrie, and some other
friends also founded a theater group called

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the Playwrights Collective. Were any of
Jennifer's plays produced? You know, I

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wasn't able to find any information about
any of them. I think the theater

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company that they formed probably did some
of them, but I was not really

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able to find a whole lot of
information about the plays other than what I'm

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going to tell you next, which
is that her writing during this period has

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been described as surreal comedy mixed with
memoir elements. One play, called The

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Red Door, is about a young
woman who is about to get married and

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is visited by men from her past, guys that she's dated, wanted to

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date, or fantasized about. Carrie
loved her friends, said quote. At

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core, almost all Jennifer's work explores
the need to be loved and known as

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one's true self. Another friend and
Jennifer's literary agent, Elizabeth Schenkman, set

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about Jennifer during that period of her
life. Quote. Jennifer was a vibrant

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presence on the New York literary scene
in the late nineteen nineties. She was

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observant and often wryly funny about human
behavior and social interactions, and she was

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always generous and supportive towards others other
writers in her midst In two thousand three,

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now thirty five year old Jennifer ran
into Potus Doulos at the airport,

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who she remembered from their days at
Brown University. Fotis was born in Istanbul,

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Turkey, the youngest of four kids
born into a middle class Greek family.

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The family moved to Greece while Fotus
was in his teens and then,

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citing a desire to get exposure to
society and culture beyond his upbringing, he

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decided to attend college in the US
at Brown University, where he first met

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Jennifer. By the time the two
met again, he had finished his MBA

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at Columbia Business School and was working
as a management consultant at cap Gemini.

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You said they met in college initially
at Brown. They didn't date then,

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No. I think they just met
briefly during her freshman year. But I

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don't even know if they really hung
out much. The articles that I had

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said that they met, but they
didn't really see just demosquatances, Yeah,

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exactly. While Fotus had grown up
middle class, he developed a taste for

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the finer things in life once he
started earning good money as a consultant.

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He was smart, well spoken,
and athletic. He's been described by friends

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and family as having endless energy and
a post positive outlook on life. He

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loved to ski, both snow skiing
and water skiing, Jennifer was also athletic,

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playing squash competitively during high school and
also being a runner. At the

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time they met again in two thousand
and three, Potus was in the process

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of separating from his first wife.
He and Jennifer were both ready for commitment,

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and Fotus made it clear upfront that
he wanted a big family and he

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wanted it soon. So he didn't
have children with his first wife, No,

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he did not. The couple got
married in two thousand and four,

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and they moved to Connecticut, where
Potus started a luxury home building business called

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The Four Group. To fund the
business, Potus borrowed millions of dollars from

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Jennifer's father, Hilliard, although Fotus
would later claim that it was a gift,

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not alone. Jennifer had some difficulty
getting pregnant, but with the help

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of fertility treatment, she got pregnant
and gave birth to twin boys in two

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thousand and six, Petrose and Theodore. Another set of twins came along in

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two thousand and eight, this time
a boy named Constantine and a girl named

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Christianne. Another daughter, Cleopatra Noel
or Clea Noel, as Jennifer called her,

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was born in twenty ten to complete
the family. With the growing family,

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Jennifer put her writing on the back
burner. She kept the kids busy

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with activities, art classes, music, horse riding, swimming, and tennis.

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Potus's business seemed to be going well, and he also got the kids

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involved in water skiing, which was
almost an obsession for him. The oldest

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set of twins were competing at the
highest levels of international water skiing competitions by

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the time they were nine years old. The family moved frequently because Potus would

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move them into whatever house he was
building until it sold, and then he

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would move them into the next house. It was stressful constantly moving from one

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home to another. Many of these
houses were over ten thousand square feet and

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they often didn't have time to fully
furnish them or settle in before moving on

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to the next one, so they
would be living in these huge luxury homes

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with cardboard boxes all around. Jennifer
did start writing again after Cleo Noel was

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born, this time in the form
of blogging about family life. She wrote

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a blog that was published on patch
dot com and another blog on her own

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site called and five Make Seven,
which was subtitled A Mother of five in

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Connecticut, writes to her children.
As a way of capturing this moment in

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time, I'm going to have you
read a short excerpt of a post that

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she wrote early on about getting back
into writing and putting her work out there.

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It's both exciting and terrifying to spread
the word about the blog. I've

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been so utterly private for so long
now, and it has served me well

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in some ways. Now that I
am writing again about my most inner thoughts,

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the inside of her home, the
inside of my life. Really such

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a total turnaround. What am I
doing botus? My husband ask me this,

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For someone who so protects her privacy, this makes no sense. I

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guess in some ways I choose what
I write, but I share. I

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decide what I put out there,
what's meaningful to me to say each day.

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I know some of what he is
saying is right. But the urge

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to keep on going is here and
is starting to snowball, and the sense

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the more I write, the more
I desire to write and to post and

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to share and to see what this
all evolves into. It's a work in

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progress. Who knows where it'll go. The exciting thing is not knowing,

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so just from reading that is he
controlling. I think he may have been

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a little bit controlling. Yeah.
Yeah. As time went on, their

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marriage began to deteriorate and they started
to fight more frequently. In January of

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twenty twelve, Jennifer wrote a blog
about her New Year's resolutions, one of

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which was about Fotus. She wrote, why do I always feel like a

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00:14:54.240 --> 00:15:00.320
failure Along these lines? I'm a
bit overwhelmed and outstretched, and it's him

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00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:05.799
whom I short changed first. She
also wrote in vague terms about the conflicts

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00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.919
between them. In one blog,
she wrote, don't be number two to

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00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:13.759
anybody. That's what my father always
told me. It's hard for girls,

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00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.799
now women, wives, mothers.
It's hard to know this for real,

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00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:22.639
And in another she wrote, I
wish I were a stronger person. That

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00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.679
confrontation did not both scare and appall
me. I just need quiet, peace

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00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:31.600
and calm. They're so very lucky
monks. They're the same gender. They

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00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:37.200
don't have to worry about misunderstandings that
could arise in opposite sex relationships. Monks

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are lucky. I mean not as
I know. I respected a vow that

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00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:50.759
they take, but that's an odd
It's a odd odd analogy to make,

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00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.120
isn't it? I think so.
Over time, Fotus spent more time away

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00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.039
from home, going on what he
said were water skiing trips for as many

218
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:02.759
as ten days a month. He
wanted to live the lifestyle of the rich

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00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:07.120
and famous, not stay home raising
five kids with an introspective wife who liked

220
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.600
to read and write. Fotos got
more aggressive over time as well. One

221
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.759
time he got into a physical fight
with a parking lot attendant at Jennifer's parents

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00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.320
apartment building. He was also very
demanding with the kids and their water skiing

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00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:23.320
training. He kept them on a
strict training regimen, some days, working

224
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:27.919
them from eight am to seven pm. In her later divorce filing, Jennifer

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00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:33.240
said, the kids are physically and
emotionally exhausted and have begged me to do

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00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:40.879
something about it. We are all
terrified to disobey my husband. Jennifer's father

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00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.039
passed away in twenty seventeen, and
in March of that year, she confronted

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00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.559
Photos about his increasing time away from
home. He confessed that he was having

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00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:55.159
an affair. Fotus met Michelle Treconis
during a trip to Miami with the children

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00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:59.240
at the water skiing club, where
they were members. Michelle was forty four,

231
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:03.840
a single of one daughter. She
was Venezuelan and seemed to be more

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00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:07.000
Photus type. She worked in marketing
and pr for a high end resort.

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00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:12.440
She was athletic, rode horses,
reported for ESPN in South America on snow

234
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:17.880
skiing, and was a competitive water
skier. She once said that her goal

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00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.960
was to rank in the top fifty
female water skiers worldwide. The affair with

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00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.400
Photus wasn't just a fling. He
had fallen very much in love with her,

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00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.559
and he told Jennifer that he was
no longer in love with her,

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00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.279
But he also wasn't ready for Jennifer
to leave him with the children. At

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00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:37.200
one point, he even suggested to
Jennifer that maybe Michelle could move into their

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00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.920
house. They could all live together
in peace and harmony, and Jennifer and

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00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.160
Michelle wouldn't really even have to see
each other. It's a really good idea.

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00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.160
It was a huge house, after
all. Goodness, Yeah, Jennifer

243
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.279
was not on board with that plan. Jennifer staate, nor would. I

244
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.599
don't get any big ideas in your
heads. Most wives would not be on

245
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.960
board with that. Jennifer stayed with
Fois for a few months after she found

246
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.359
out about the affair, but it
was pretty much the last straw for her.

247
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:10.000
Shortly after learning about the affair,
she also discovered that Potus had bought

248
00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:14.200
a gun. Potus and Jennifer had
agreed early on in the marriage that there

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00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.880
would be no guns in the house
while they were raising their children, but

250
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:21.880
Fotis bought a handgun without telling her
and showed it to at least one of

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00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:26.079
the kids, who then told their
mom about it. On June nineteenth,

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00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.119
twenty seventeen, Jennifer packed up the
kids and some of her things and left

253
00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.200
without telling Fotus. When he came
home to find them gone, he called

254
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:38.319
nine one one nine one Association of
your Emergency. I am not worried about

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00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:45.160
my wife and kids, and I
haven't been able to get infessional kids five

256
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:49.279
kids. That's just a short clip
of the nine one one call that Jennifer

257
00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.160
took the kids to a house that
she had rented in New Canaan, Connecticut,

258
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:57.599
which was about seventy miles from their
home in Farmington, Connecticut, and

259
00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:03.279
the next day Fotus was so with
divorce papers. It would be an ugly

260
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.960
and messy process. That dragged on
for almost two years, with more than

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00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:11.839
three hundred motions filed by both parties, and was still not finalized by the

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00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:17.839
time of Jennifer's disappearance. Jennifer's filings
showed just how afraid she was of Fotus.

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00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:22.920
In one affidavit, she wrote,
I am terrified for my family's safety,

264
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.519
especially since discovering the gun, since
my husband has a history of controlling,

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00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:33.720
volatile and delusional behavior. Fotus claimed
that he had discussed with Jennifer the

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00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.359
possibility of purchasing a gun, and
then he turned it over to the Farmington

267
00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.680
Police. She also wrote, I
am afraid of my husband. I know

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00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.880
that filing for divorce and filing this
motion will enrage him. I know he

269
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.799
will retaliate by trying to harm me
in some way. I am afraid for

270
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:56.079
my safety and the physical and emotional
well being of our minor children. So

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00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.920
that blogga it kept really personal.
This is not from her blog. This

272
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:06.519
is from her divorce filing. I'm
yeah, no, that would have been

273
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:10.440
something, but no, these are
all These more recent quotes are from the

274
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:15.000
different filings that she made during the
divorce. She also claimed in one of

275
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.480
those filings that he had threatened to
take the children away to Greece and that

276
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.200
she would never find them. In
another motion, she claimed that Fotus almost

277
00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:26.880
hit her with his Chevy Suburban in
her driveway when he was coming to pick

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00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:30.160
up the children for a visit,
accelerating and then swerving at the last moment.

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00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:36.559
She said that the children had witnessed
this incident. She requested and was

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00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.880
eventually granted, full custody of the
children while the divorce proceedings were going on,

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00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.960
with a judge concluding that Potus had
pressured the kids to lie in order

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00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:51.279
to help his cause and that his
actions constituted emotional abuse. Fotus denied all

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00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:55.799
these allegations and responded with his own
filings, claiming that Jennifer was not fit

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00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.920
to be a single parent of the
five children and that she was taking medication

285
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.359
for mental health issues. He said
that she had lost one of the children

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00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.440
on more than one occasion, including
during a trip to London. He also

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00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.759
claimed that she had tried to turn
the kids against him by telling them things

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00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:15.279
like your dad is a psychopath and
your dad does not care about you.

289
00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:21.000
Jennifer's mother also sued Photos for repayment
of the two point five million dollars in

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00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:25.119
loans that she and Hilliard had given
him to start his business. As I

291
00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.920
mentioned earlier, Potus claimed that the
startup money money had been a gift,

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00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.519
not alone. Potus was frustrated by
all of his losses in court, one

293
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.640
time asking a judge, why do
I always get the raw end of the

294
00:21:36.680 --> 00:21:40.359
stick with that? Let's take a
quick break. We'll be right back.

295
00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.920
So this all brings us to Friday, May twenty fourth of twenty nineteen.

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00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:55.880
Just before eight am, Jennifer made
the short three minute drive to drop the

297
00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:00.920
kids off at school in her Chevy
Suburban. She was seen on multiple cameras

298
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.440
returning home by eight oh five,
but she has not been seen since.

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00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:07.680
When she didn't show up for some
appointments in the city that day, her

300
00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.759
friends became concerned and called to report
her missing. That evening, around seven

301
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:18.079
pm, officers went to Jennifer's rental
home and they did an initial search.

302
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.160
Her suburban was not in the garage, but officers saw what looked like blood

303
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.319
on the floor of the garage and
also what appeared to be blood spatter on

304
00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:30.160
the side of Jennifer's other car.
A twenty fourteen range Rover that was parked

305
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:34.519
in the middle of the three car
garage. Detectives noted that it appeared that

306
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.200
someone had made an attempt to wipe
up the blood before giving up. Around

307
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:45.200
the same time detectives arrived at Jennifer's
house, her abandoned suburban was found parked

308
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.440
three and a half miles away on
the side of Lapham Road, which bordered

309
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.960
Waveny Park. Waveny Park is a
park in New Canaan with a mansion at

310
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:57.279
its center, surrounded by three hundred
acres of fields, ponds, and trails.

311
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.240
They immediately launched a full scale search
of the park, using helicopters and

312
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:07.359
canine teams. There were no security
cameras in the park, but they asked

313
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:11.319
joggers and other visitors if they had
seen Jennifer, but there was no sign

314
00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:14.920
of her anywhere. I remember you
saying earlier on she was a runner,

315
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:18.640
she's still running and could she have
Yeah, I believe she was still running

316
00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:22.319
even up until her disappearance, So
could she have been out for a run.

317
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:25.480
And I mean it's possible. I'm
sure It's one of the things they

318
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.920
considered at first, but you know, it just seemed I think right away

319
00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:33.400
it was suspicious right the fact that
she did not show up for some appointments,

320
00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.359
which was unlike her, and then
her car just to be found abandoned

321
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:41.480
like that was very suspicious. The
next day, Fotus agreed to come into

322
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.559
the New Canaan Police Department to talk
to the police. He showed up around

323
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:49.200
two forty five in the afternoon,
which was three hours later than the time

324
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.680
that he and detectives had agreed on. Within minutes of his arrival, his

325
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:59.240
lawyer came in and told investigators that
Photus would not be providing an interview and

326
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.559
that he and his it would be
leaving. Detectives told photos that they were

327
00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:07.279
surprised that he was not going to
assist in the search for Jennifer. During

328
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:11.680
this discussion, Photus had his phone
out and one of the detectives asked if

329
00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:17.839
he could see it. Fotus handed
it over without hesitation. The detective asked

330
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.079
for the passcode to unlock it,
and Photus gave it to him zero zero

331
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.880
zero zero, which is not a
very secure pass code. As the detective,

332
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:33.279
you're telling people that. As the
detective put the phone in airplane mode,

333
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.519
Fotus's lawyer asked what he was doing. The detective said he was securing

334
00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:42.359
the phone and its data because he
believed it contained evidence related to Jennifer's disappearance,

335
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.839
and that they would be seeking a
search warrant. Potus's lawyer said that

336
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:51.160
they had no grounds to seize the
cell phone, but then he and Fotus

337
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.920
left and the police were able to
get the search warrant authorizing them to go

338
00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:59.480
through the phone's contents that evening.
The first thing that jumped out to them

339
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:03.759
was that Fotus's phone data showed that
he had spent an hour or so around

340
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:07.759
Albany Avenue in Hartford, Connecticut,
on the evening of the twenty fourth,

341
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.799
around the seven pm hour. Hartford
is not far from Fotus's home in Farmington,

342
00:25:11.880 --> 00:25:17.480
about ten miles away, and Albany
Avenue is a fairly major street that

343
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:22.480
runs through Hartford. I'm not sure
why they happened to find that location suspicious,

344
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.920
but they headed up there and they
decided to canvass the area. What

345
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:30.480
the police had going for them,
and what Fotus probably didn't realize, is

346
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:34.160
that there are some seven hundred cameras
all around the city of Hertford. It's

347
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:38.680
one of the most sophisticated surveillance systems
of any city in the US, and

348
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:44.480
it's actually been a source of controversy
with civil rights or civil liberties groups raising

349
00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:48.400
privacy concerns. As they went through
the footage for the evening of May twenty

350
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:53.400
fourth, they identified a Ford Raptor
pickup truck that was registered to Fotus's Company

351
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:59.359
four group. Between seven thirty and
seven fifty pm, they saw the pickup

352
00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:03.240
truck drive along Albany Avenue, stopping
several times, and each time it would

353
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.039
stop, they saw the driver get
out and put some black garbage bags into

354
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:14.160
various various trash receptacles. They identified
the driver as Photus and also saw that

355
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.480
there was a passenger in the truck
as well, which appeared to be Fotus's

356
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:22.240
girlfriend, Michelle Treconis. Investigators then
went around to the garbage bins and also

357
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.720
searched the trash facility that some of
the bins had been emptied and sent to,

358
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:32.799
and they were able to recover several
black garbage bags that contained clothing and

359
00:26:32.920 --> 00:26:37.440
undergarments that had been cut, plastic
zip ties, and a bunch of household

360
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.720
items like sponges, paper, towels, gloves, a mop, handled,

361
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.640
duct tape, and ponchos. Oh
boy, we've been there before. Yes,

362
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.359
many of the items had what appeared
to be blood on them. Testing

363
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.720
would eventually show a DNA match to
Jennifer Dulos on all of these items.

364
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:57.240
Additionally, there was a match to
Potus's DNA on a couple of items,

365
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:02.640
a match to his fingerprint on a
couple of others, and a DNA match

366
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:07.839
to Michelle Traconis on a couple of
the black plastic garbage bags. They also

367
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.079
found Photos's DNA, along with some
of Jennifer's blood, on the faucet in

368
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.720
the kitchen of her home. Another
piece of footage showed Photos putting a large

369
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:21.599
white colored item down a storm drain
on Albany Avenue. Police were able to

370
00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:25.519
retrieve this as well. It turned
out to be a large FedEx envelope.

371
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.759
Inside were two Connecticut license plates.
The plate number appeared to be five T

372
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:36.640
six WBU, but as they looked
closer, they saw that blue tape had

373
00:27:36.680 --> 00:27:40.799
been used to alter the number.
The real number was five to one six

374
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.279
w DJ. And who do you
think that plate was registered to? Potus?

375
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:52.119
Yes? Okay, I have to
be honest. I made you rewind

376
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.319
because I got it wrong the first
time. That's okay, that's okay.

377
00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.119
This was your weak storytelling that caused
me to get it. Oh, you're

378
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.200
doing a great job, thank you. It was a canceled registration, but

379
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.519
it had belonged to PHOTOS. I
have a question. Okay, so you

380
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:12.799
said there's blood and there's like paper
towels and things that were used to clean

381
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:17.160
up the scene. Was there anything
indicating that she was dead? Though,

382
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:19.519
no, they can not. On
a Walsh case, like some of her

383
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:26.000
tissue was found and that led people
to determine that she was No. I

384
00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:29.480
think it was just the quantity of
blood that they found. It seemed like

385
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.920
it was probably quite a bit,
like in the garage, but then also

386
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:36.559
on all these items that they found, so it Yeah, I don't think

387
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:38.039
there was anything else, but it
just seemed like there was enough there that

388
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.960
it was pretty likely that she was
dead. I'm always hopeful that, you

389
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:47.200
know, Yeah, it did appear
that Jennifer was most likely dead, and

390
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.920
that PHOTOS was responsible, and that
Michelle was probably involved at least in helping

391
00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:55.279
to dispose of the evidence of what. I don't ever, I've never understand

392
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:57.759
these girlfriends who are just like,
yeah, you know, your wife was

393
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:02.279
a paint of the butt, it's
okay that you killed her, and yeah,

394
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:06.279
I just don't understand that. I
do not understand it either. The

395
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:11.480
search for Jennifer was still ongoing,
but investigators decided to arrest Fotus and Michelle,

396
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.079
not on murder charges yet, but
on charges of tampering with evidence and

397
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.440
hindering prosecution. The arrest warrants were
issued and executed on June first, eight

398
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:25.400
days after Jennifer's disappearance. Their goal
was to get Potus and Michelle in custody

399
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:29.400
so that they could ask questions and
hopefully get them to talk, but Fotus

400
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.759
wouldn't cooperate at all. He lawyered
up and didn't say a word. In

401
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.160
her first interview on June second,
Michelle gave investigators her account of the day

402
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.839
of Jennifer's disappearance. She said that
she and Fotus had woken up at their

403
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:47.920
house in Farmington on the twenty fourth
at six forty am. She and Fotus

404
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.720
showered and had sex, and then
she made breakfast for her daughter and drove

405
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:55.559
her to school. She initially said
that she was with Fotus all morning,

406
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.480
but when pressed, said that maybe
it wasn't the entire morning, but she

407
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.000
said he was definitely with her between
six forty and eight fifteen, which would

408
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.799
have given him an alibi during the
time that Jennifer disappeared. She also claimed

409
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:12.000
that she saw Photus with Kent Mawinney, who was Fotus's friend and attorney,

410
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:17.039
at eight fifteen am, in the
four Group office, which was above the

411
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:22.079
garage of their residence. She did
admit to being with Fotus during his drive

412
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.319
along Albany Avenue that evening. She
said that he had invited her to go

413
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:30.279
to Starbucks and she had no idea
why he kept stopping and throwing things in

414
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:36.359
garbage bins. The next day,
June third, investigators executed a search warrant

415
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.799
at Fotus and Michelle's home, and
they found what came to be known as

416
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:45.599
the Alibi Script. It was two
pages of handwritten notes that laid out in

417
00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:51.319
roughly one hour increments Photuses and Michelle's
activities on the twenty fourth and the twenty

418
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:56.279
fifth. The writing was in two
different handwritings later confirmed to be Fotuses and

419
00:30:56.400 --> 00:31:00.960
Michelle's, and what do you know
it pretty much mapped verb to the story

420
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:06.559
that Michelle told investigators the day before. When they confronted Michelle with the Albi

421
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:11.119
scripts, she claimed that Fotus's attorney
told them they should write out everything they

422
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.880
did those days. But Michelle's story
would diverge from the Alibi script in subsequent

423
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:22.480
interviews as investigators confronted her with evidence
that Fotus was seen in other places early

424
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.599
the morning of the twenty fourth.
In her second interview, she admitted,

425
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.039
after some tears and attempts to change
the subject, that she didn't actually see

426
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:34.920
Photus that day until between one and
two pm. In her third interview,

427
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:38.759
she admitted that Potus wasn't at home
when she woke up at six forty am,

428
00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:42.680
they hadn't showered together or had sex, and that she didn't see him

429
00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:47.960
until at least noon. She also
said that she didn't actually see Photus at

430
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.160
the Four Group office meeting with Kent
Mawinni, as she had claimed. She

431
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.920
now said that she dropped by the
Four Group office, which again was at

432
00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:00.359
their house above the garage, and
she saw Mawinni by himself, but that

433
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:04.319
Potus's cell phone was on the table, so she assumed that he was either

434
00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:10.279
there or somewhere at home. There
were several other inconsistencies in Michelle's stories across

435
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.599
the three different interviews that she did
with the police during these days. While

436
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:22.000
they were conducting interviews with Michelle and
still searching for Jennifer, investigators uncovered several

437
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:25.000
other pieces of video evidence that helped
flesh out Potus's movements on the day in

438
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:30.599
question. First, they saw him
very early in the morning of the twenty

439
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:34.799
fourth, at five thirty five am, leaving one of his other properties in

440
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.480
Farmington, about two miles from his
home. He was driving a red Tacoma

441
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:43.279
pickup truck. The truck didn't belong
to Potus. It was actually one of

442
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:46.839
his employees, who said that he
normally left his pickup truck at Potus's home

443
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.480
during the week and drove one of
the company cars. They spotted the red

444
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:58.440
Tacoma on video in several locations between
Farmington and New Canaan, including school bus

445
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:04.759
video from that morning that the Tacoma
parked about three miles from Jennifer's house and

446
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:09.319
only about one hundred feet from where
Jennifer's abandoned car was eventually found. This

447
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:14.599
led investigators to wonder if Fotus parked
there and maybe jogged to her home.

448
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:19.519
But then an eagle eyed detective noticed
in one of the pieces of video footage

449
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:22.920
that it looked like that there was
a bike tire sticking up out of the

450
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:27.720
back of the pickup. So they
then reviewed any video footage they could find

451
00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:31.640
from houses in between where the Tacoma
was parked and Jennifer's house, and sure

452
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:36.480
enough, they saw a guy in
dark clothing wearing a black hoodie with the

453
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:40.319
hood pulled up to obscure the rider's
face, riding a bike toward Jennifer's house

454
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:45.759
at seven thirty am. Just to
note, the temperature in nu Canaan that

455
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:47.880
morning was in the mid sixties,
so if you were biking, you probably

456
00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:52.319
wouldn't be bundled up with a hoodie
on you pulled over your head. So

457
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:54.880
I've given you a lot of details
about the video footage, but let me

458
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.359
step back and just run through the
timeline of everything we know for sure.

459
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:05.559
On four five thirty five am,
Photus leaves one of his properties in Farmington,

460
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.800
driving his employees red Tacoma pickup truck. Now, this is about ninety

461
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:14.280
minutes from New Canaan, where Jennifer
lived. The truck is spotted on video

462
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:19.480
at locations between Farmington and New Canaan
at six thirty six and seven oh three

463
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:22.960
am. At seven thirty one am, the man in dark clothing is seen

464
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:30.199
on a bicycle midway between Waveny Park
and Jennifer's house. At seven forty am,

465
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:35.599
the Tacoma is seen on video parked
near Waveny Park. Earlier video footage

466
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:37.599
showed that it wasn't there at seven
oh five am, so it must have

467
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:43.679
been parked there within the last thirty
minutes. At eight am, Jennifer drops

468
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:46.239
the kids off at school and is
seen arriving back home by eight o five.

469
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.039
Investigators believe that Potus killed Jennifer during
this time. He laid in wait

470
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:55.440
in the garage and after she pulled
in and closed the garage door, he

471
00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:00.519
attacked. And Jennifer's blood had been
found in the garage and in her car

472
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:06.280
r not in her car, but
in the garage, and on the other

473
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:07.639
car that was in the garage,
so there's a range Rover that was in

474
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:12.920
the garage. Her suburban was found
elsewhere. It was found by the park.

475
00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:15.840
The blood was found spattered on the
outside of the range rover like underneath

476
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.719
it and on the door, so
they're not actually sure how Jennifer was killed,

477
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:23.280
but the blood on the garage floor, including the spatter that ended up

478
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:28.480
on the other car, showed that
it must have been a violent attack of

479
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.199
some sort. She may not have
been killed right away either, because the

480
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:37.360
zip ties that they found later were
likely used to restrain her. At ten

481
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.280
twenty five am, Jennifer's suburban is
seen leaving her house. Her cell phone

482
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.880
location showed that her phone left her
house about this time and traveled to Waveny

483
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:52.800
Park. Investigators believed that Photus put
Jennifer's body in the back of the suburban

484
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.639
along with his bike, and drove
her car to Waveny Park, near where

485
00:35:55.639 --> 00:36:00.639
he had left the tacoma. At
eleven twelve am, the tacoma is seen

486
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:06.400
traveling away from New Canaan at a
location about five minutes from Waveny Park.

487
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:10.599
At twelve twenty two pm, we
see the tacoma pulling back into Photus's property

488
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:15.480
in Farmington, the same one that
he left early that morning. Between one

489
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:20.960
thirty and five thirty pm, there
are several comings and goings to and from

490
00:36:21.039 --> 00:36:27.039
the property in Farmington, including both
Michelle and Potus between seven and eight pm.

491
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:31.000
Then Fotus and Michelle are spotted driving
his Raptor pickup truck around Hartford dropping

492
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:37.199
items into various garbage bags. So
the big question was what did Potus do

493
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.960
with Jennifer's body. There are two
windows of time that detectives believe that he

494
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.920
could have done something with her.
First, after he drove Jennifer's suburban with

495
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:50.760
her body in the back to Waveny
Park, he was at the park for

496
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:55.039
probably thirty five to forty minutes before
the Tacoma was seen driving back toward Farmington,

497
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:00.599
but the park was searched pretty thoroughly, including with canines, and there

498
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.280
were joggers and other people at the
park at that time, so it seems

499
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.840
unlikely that Fotus could have left her
body around there. The other window of

500
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:13.199
time is after he got back to
his other property in Farmington in the afternoon.

501
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:17.400
At two twenty four pm, a
white jeep Cherokee owned by Potus is

502
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:22.840
seen leaving the property and returning an
hour and a half later, so he

503
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:27.599
could have done something with Jennifer's body
anywhere within forty five minutes of that property.

504
00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.480
At that time, and he's in
construction. Yeah, he has a

505
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:36.440
lot of different houses, a lot
of different properties. One intriguing possibility that

506
00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.920
came up was a place called the
Windsor Rod and Gun Club. It was

507
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:45.280
a twenty five acre wooded area about
twenty miles north of Farmington. The club

508
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:49.920
had been founded by Kent Mawinny.
Do you remember him. He was Fotus's

509
00:37:49.960 --> 00:37:54.880
friend and attorney. Kent had actually
founded the club and secured the land about

510
00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:00.480
twelve to fifteen years earlier, although
he had left the club five or six

511
00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:06.199
years ago. On May eighteenth,
six days before Jennifer went missing, j

512
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.440
Lawler, who was a member of
the Rod and Gun Club, was there

513
00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:13.679
hunting with a friend and they came
upon a hole in the ground. It

514
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.480
was six feet long, two feet
wide and three feet deep. It looked

515
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:20.920
very much like a shallow grave.
At the bottom of the hole was a

516
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.920
blue tarp and two bags of lime. Lawler and his friend immediately thought it

517
00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:28.880
looked like a grave and that the
lime was there to get rid of a

518
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.440
body. But they hadn't heard about
any missing people in the area, and

519
00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:36.519
so they just disturbed the area around
the hole to make it apparent that it

520
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:38.519
was there, so no one accidentally
fell into it, and then they went

521
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:44.360
on their way. Four days later, Lawler was back on the property and

522
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:47.199
he saw that the bags of lime
had been removed, and then in June

523
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:51.360
he went back and saw that the
hole had been filled in. So this

524
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.320
property is just a hunting property that
people just yeah, and he just left

525
00:38:54.320 --> 00:39:00.199
it wide open, yeah, okay
in August. So he never really connected

526
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:06.239
this with Jennifer's disappearance. I mean, he saw the whole before she disappeared,

527
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.320
so he didn't obviously make any connection
then. And then afterwards, he

528
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:14.039
didn't really think about it until August
when another club member said to him,

529
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.880
did you hear about Kent Mawinniy.
He's involved in that Dulo's case. It

530
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.239
was at that point that Lawler put
two and two together. As I mentioned,

531
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:27.639
Mawinni had left the club five or
six years earlier, but coincidentally,

532
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:31.400
or maybe not coincidentally, Mowinni had
reached out to another club member in March

533
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:37.320
or April asking how he could get
back onto the club's property. The member

534
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.159
told him about a hidden key to
get onto the property, but no one

535
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:44.960
knows if Mawinni ever used it,
and no one else at the gun club

536
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:49.480
had heard from him since. Lawler
reported all of this to the police,

537
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.440
who then came and excavated the location
where the hole had been, along with

538
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.360
the surrounding area. Again, they
used cadaver dogs, but there was no

539
00:39:57.480 --> 00:40:01.880
sign of Jennifer's remains. A review
of Kent Mawhinney's phone records showed that he

540
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:06.400
had been near the Rod and Gun
Club in late March and then again on

541
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:12.079
May thirty first, one week after
Jennifer's disappearance. Despite all of these efforts

542
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:15.480
from investigators, Jennifer's body still has
not been found to this day. Oh

543
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:22.360
yeah, it's really so frustrating.
It is frustrating because you just you know

544
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.679
that he did it, and you
know he had to have done something with

545
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.039
her body within a pretty limited amount
of time, and so it's just daylight,

546
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:34.400
right yea most likely. Yeah,
So it's just yeah, it's very

547
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:40.559
baffling. Were streams, ponds,
lakes searched, Yeah, I think so.

548
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.039
I mean they looked I'll talk about
more, but they looked at like

549
00:40:45.880 --> 00:40:49.800
all the different properties that he owned. They looked at a property that Jennifer's

550
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:53.039
mom owned, they looked at,
yeah parks. I mean they really did

551
00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:57.519
a very thorough search of everywhere they
could think of, and so there wasn't

552
00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.360
cement poured that day at a property. I don't think so. No.

553
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:08.079
Fotis hired well known criminal defense attorney
Norm Pattis to represent him. Pattis came

554
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:13.000
up with a novel theory to explain
Jennifer's disappearance. And I use the word

555
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.840
novel as a clever double meaning because
he claimed to have a copy of Jennifer's

556
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:22.760
unpublished novel that she had written several
years ago, and Pattis claimed that it

557
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.840
echoed the plot of Gone Girl.
So if you haven't read Gone Girl or

558
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:30.280
seen the movie, I'm going to
give a spoiler alert before I say anything

559
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:32.960
about it. It's a great book
if you haven't read it, it is,

560
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.920
but it's about a woman who fakes
her own murder and leaves behind several

561
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:43.400
false clues implicating her husband. Pattis
said of Jennifer's novel, it's not Gone

562
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:46.760
Girl, but it's close. His
implication was clear that maybe Jennifer faked her

563
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:51.559
own murder and then made it look
like Fotus was responsible for her disappearance.

564
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.960
It was a ridiculous theory on its
face, and Jennifer's friends and families were

565
00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:00.559
outraged by Pattis putting this out there. Friends who had read the draft novel

566
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.920
say that first of all, it
was written ten years before Gone Girl was

567
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.320
published, and second, it was
not at all similar to Gone Girl and

568
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:13.639
didn't match any of the evidence in
her actual disappearance. And third, it

569
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:17.000
was ludicrous to think that Jennifer would
leave her children while he was out on

570
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:22.519
bail for the tampering with evidence and
hindering prosecution charges. Fotus gave interviews to

571
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:28.719
Dateline and other media outlets. While
he wouldn't discuss any of the evidence or

572
00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:32.760
specifics about Jennifer's disappearance on advice from
his lawyer, he came across as very

573
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:37.840
soft spoken, sincere, and concerned. In these appearances. He of course

574
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:43.199
denied any stories of violence or abuse
in the marriage, and was very careful

575
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:46.400
to talk about Jennifer in the present
tense, saying he still believed and hoped

576
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:50.960
that she was alive and would be
found. It was an impressive act.

577
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.559
Here are a few short clips that
I collected from those interviews. It was

578
00:42:54.679 --> 00:43:01.760
never, never, never any violence
abuse in any way. Jennifer and I

579
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:07.159
didn't even really argue all these years. I never wanted Jennifer out of the

580
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:12.760
way. Even if I could get
so custody, I would still not take

581
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:15.440
it because I wouldn't want my children
to have a relationship with her mother,

582
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:21.440
because I care about the children.
I had my differences with Jennifer, like

583
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:25.400
many people do when they go through
a marriage. It didn't work out for

584
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:29.480
us, but that doesn't mean that
I wish her ill in any way.

585
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:32.880
She was a great mother. I
think she was an excellent mother, and

586
00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:37.639
I hope that she continues to be
an excellent mother. You use the present

587
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:40.719
tense. Yes, do you believe
Jennifer is alive? I do, against

588
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:46.320
all circumstantial evidence or common understanding.
I'd like not to discuss this, but

589
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:51.920
in your mind, your mind for
my attorney's advice, so I can't understand,

590
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:54.199
but in your mind she's alive.
Yes. I just want to say,

591
00:43:54.199 --> 00:43:59.039
if there's any dateline producers out there
listening, I would love a shot

592
00:44:00.519 --> 00:44:04.800
being a Tate line host. I
know, I know, I know we're

593
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.440
ready for that. Oh sure you
are sure? You are well? We

594
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:08.800
would do it together. Yeah,
so that was one of the shirts I

595
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:17.480
wanted to do, was like Keith
and Dennis and Josh and Richentina. Well,

596
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:21.719
I forgot, I always forget the
lady's name. I don't know.

597
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:23.400
I can't help you there. I'm
terrible at names. I just I just

598
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:27.119
know Keith. Yeah, and then
I was gonna put Ritentina at the end.

599
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:30.760
Yeah, what do you think of
Photos's those short clips that I play.

600
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:35.840
I mean, I know he's a
lying sack of garbage, but he

601
00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:38.039
sounded sincere. I know he really
I have to say, like he really

602
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:43.000
comes across as super sincere. I
also know he's a lying sack of garbage

603
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.320
as well, even without a body. There was a lot of evidence pointing

604
00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:52.480
toward Photos and also toward Michelle Traconis
and Kent Malinney for helping him cover up

605
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.880
the crime. On January sixth of
twenty twenty, all three of them were

606
00:44:55.960 --> 00:45:00.639
arrested. The charges against Photos were
murder, felony murder, and kidnapping in

607
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:06.840
the first degree. The charges against
Michelle and Kent were conspiracy to commit murder.

608
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:10.960
Fotus was back home the same day
after coming up with his six million

609
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:15.199
dollar bond, but now wearing an
ankle bracelet to keep track of him.

610
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:20.239
However, prosecutors learned that the houses
that he had put up for collateral for

611
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:24.880
his bond were actually under foreclosure.
It turned out that Fotus's finance finances were

612
00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:30.039
really kind of a mess. He
had borrowed millions to start his business and

613
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:34.679
was always on the brink of bankruptcy, essentially selling one house to get cash

614
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:37.000
to build the next one, but
never really getting ahead. And I think

615
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:43.679
the two years of the legal battle
and the divorce also he was being sued

616
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:47.159
by Jennifer's mom for two point five
million dollars, and he had multiple lines

617
00:45:47.199 --> 00:45:52.360
of credit open with a total balance
of four point five million dollars, not

618
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:57.119
to mention the many mortgages on his
properties. In total, his debt exposure

619
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.639
was around seven million dollars, and
he was failing to even make the minimal

620
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:06.719
interest payments on that debt. It's
also worth noting that the kids had trust

621
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.920
funds established in their name from Jennifer's
parents, which were worth more than two

622
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:15.760
million dollars. If Jennifer were to
disappear and Fotus were to get custody of

623
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:20.599
the children, he would suddenly have
access to that money. Because of the

624
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.480
fact that his bond had been put
up using collateral that was under foreclosure,

625
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:29.719
prosecutors made a motion to revoke his
bond. On the morning of January twenty

626
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:32.440
eighth, Potus was notified that he
needed to show up for a hearing that

627
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:37.880
afternoon. He likely realized that this
would be his last day of freedom,

628
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:42.400
at least until the trial, if
not forever. At ten thirty am,

629
00:46:42.519 --> 00:46:45.599
he headed into his garage and attached
a hose from the exhaust of his suburban

630
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:50.119
and ran it back through the window
of the car and started the engine.

631
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:53.440
When he didn't show up for the
hearing, police quickly checked the location of

632
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:58.280
his ankle bracelet and saw that he
hadn't left home. They rushed out to

633
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:01.840
find him in the garage inside the
running car. They pulled him out onto

634
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:07.119
the driveway and performed CPR, which
was captured on video by news helicopters overhead.

635
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:12.639
They were wow, very dramatic.
Yeah, the footage is actually really

636
00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:16.199
dramatic. They were eventually able to
get a pulse and they then airlifted him

637
00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:21.320
to a hospital in New York City, where he was placed in a hyperbaric

638
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:24.360
chamber. To try and reverse the
effects of the CO two poisoning. It

639
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.480
didn't work, though. He was
on life support for another two days,

640
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.239
during which time the kids, who
hadn't seen him in months because of a

641
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:36.199
court order, were allowed to come
and say their goodbyes. Oh my goodness.

642
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:39.079
Yes, Yeah, he died on
January thirtieth, twenty twenty, at

643
00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:44.400
fifty two years old. Holy coow. I didn't didn't see that coming.

644
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:47.159
Yeah. I think he just realized
that he was probably never going to be

645
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:51.239
free again. I think he knew
that it was, you know, it

646
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:53.800
was over for him. Well was
there enough evidence though to convince? I

647
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:57.519
mean, there was so much evidence
of you know, there wasn't a body,

648
00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:00.800
but there was so much video of
him it was really not hard at

649
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:06.000
all to trace. And all the
items that he threw out that had his

650
00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:08.880
DNA on it, along with Jennifer's
blood and DNA, so I think it

651
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:14.880
was pretty overwhelming. I just think
of recent cases like Barry Moore few Yeah,

652
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:16.440
I guess there wasn't really blood evidence
there. Yeah, I think in

653
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:21.360
this case there was enough circumstantial evidence
that he would have been convicted once upon

654
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:24.960
a time if you didn't have a
body you weren't able to convict. Yeah.

655
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:30.360
Fotus did leave a suicide note proclaiming
his innocence. He wrote, quote,

656
00:48:30.920 --> 00:48:32.639
if you are reading this, I
am no more. I refuse to

657
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:37.840
spend even an hour in jail for
something I had nothing all caps to do

658
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.280
with. Enough is enough. If
it takes my head to end this,

659
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:45.079
so be it. In the note, he also claimed that Kent Mawinney,

660
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:49.639
and Michelle Traconis also had nothing to
do with Jennifer's disappearance, which was kind

661
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:52.679
of an odd thing to say.
If he was truly innocent, how would

662
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:57.880
he know if Michelle and Kent were
also innocent. He also wrote, quote,

663
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:00.920
please let my children know that I
love them. I would do anything

664
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:04.960
to be with them, but unfortunately
we all have our limits. Okay,

665
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:07.960
So that I'm going to have to
take issue with that. Like, you're

666
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.199
a dad, and even if you
think you're going to jail, you do

667
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:14.119
everything you can to stay out of
jail to be there for your kids because

668
00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:19.519
they've already lost their mom. Yeah, absolutely so. Photus As suicide not

669
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:22.920
only ensured that he would never face
trial for what he did to Jennifer,

670
00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:25.840
it also left his five children without
a parent, And on top of that,

671
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.400
it screwed over his supposed friends,
Michelle and Kent, because I'm sure

672
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:36.159
prosecutors would have pressured them to flip
on Photus in exchange for some type of

673
00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:39.159
leniency. I would think at least
one of them would have taken some type

674
00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:44.079
of offer and maybe even led them
to Jennifer's body. But now all of

675
00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:47.320
that was off the table. There
were some rumors in late twenty twenty that

676
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:52.159
Kent mawinney may have turned on Michelle. Michelle's attorney referred to him as a

677
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:57.239
jailhouse informant, and we're trying to
get information about what he might have said

678
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:00.960
to the police, but it's unclear
what, if anything Winnie has shared.

679
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:05.320
Remember, Mwinnie is a lawyer,
albeit not a criminal attorney, but he

680
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:08.000
knows how the game is played,
so I wouldn't be surprised if he cuts

681
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:13.760
some sort of a deal. There
has been some indication from prosecutors that he

682
00:50:13.800 --> 00:50:19.519
will testify against Michelle Treconis at her
trial. Kent mawinny was out unbond but

683
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:22.440
under house arrest until May of twenty
twenty three, when a judge granted a

684
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:27.440
motion to lift the house arrest,
but he's still required to wear an ankle

685
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:32.079
monitor. Just recently, Mwinni's attorney
asked that his ankle monitor be removed because

686
00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:37.039
it causes him embarrassment and prevents him
from wearing ice skates, which I understand

687
00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:40.840
is quite a hardship. But the
judge, these people I know, the

688
00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:44.880
judge did not see it that way
and denied the motion. This was just

689
00:50:44.920 --> 00:50:49.559
a couple of weeks ago. Actually, Michelle Traconis has maintained her innocence.

690
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:52.719
She released a statement in May of
twenty twenty saying that she knows nothing of

691
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:59.559
Jennifer's whereabouts. While she professes sympathy
for the Doulo's children, the statement quickly

692
00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:04.239
turns down how unfairly she's been treated. She also said, quote, whether

693
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:08.079
or not Fotus Dulos was capable of
doing the things the police and prosecutors accused

694
00:51:08.119 --> 00:51:12.239
him of doing, I do not
know, but based on what I've learned

695
00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:15.440
in the last year, I think
it was a mistake to have trusted him

696
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:22.000
unquote. Michelle's trial is scheduled to
start on January eighth of twenty twenty four

697
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:27.639
in Stamford, Connecticut. Jury selection
is actually already complete, So it sounds

698
00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:30.880
like, yeah, they did.
I thought they usually did jury selection right

699
00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:34.119
before the trial, but they actually
just finished it maybe a couple of weeks

700
00:51:34.119 --> 00:51:37.800
ago. It seems really odd because
then you know, you're curious, you're

701
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.039
a human, Yeah, you're probably
going to do something. They would probably

702
00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:43.599
do some googling. Yeah, I'm
sure they're told not to, but yeah,

703
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:45.880
that would be kind of human nature, wouldn't it. So it sounds

704
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:51.320
like the trial is likely to go
forward without further delay. The judge has

705
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:54.679
said that the trial may last until
March first. I'll be sure and provide

706
00:51:54.719 --> 00:52:00.000
updates once it begins. She's currently
free on bond as she awaits trial.

707
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:06.159
So the evidence against Michelle is like, there's video of her in the Tacoma

708
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:09.679
yeah, with with potus and composing
of the trash. Yeah. And there's

709
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:15.039
also DNA of hers on some of
the trash bags. It's not on like

710
00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:19.920
the items that had Jennifer's blood on
them, but it is on the trash

711
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:25.320
bags themselves. So so I guess
she could potentially say, oh, I

712
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:30.920
was just helping throw away the trash. Yeah, I think so it's possible.

713
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:32.480
I don't know what other evidence they
have against her other than you know,

714
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:37.320
she lied. She clearly lied in
the police interviews that she did.

715
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:39.079
You know, they caught her in
those lies. They know, they know

716
00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:43.719
for a fact that she was not
being honest with them during those interviews.

717
00:52:43.760 --> 00:52:45.719
So they definitely have that against her
as well. But yeah, I'm not

718
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:50.599
sure, like if they've you know, the case against her for conspiracy to

719
00:52:50.599 --> 00:52:52.199
commit murder, if that's going to
be strong enough. So I'll be I'll

720
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:55.239
be really curious to see what happens
with that trial. Yeah, I'll definitely

721
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:59.800
keep her eyes open. I don't
believe that Kent mawinney has a trial date

722
00:53:00.199 --> 00:53:02.559
yet, and I kind of wonder
if prosecutors are waiting to see whether he

723
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:07.480
follows through and testifying against Traconis,
and maybe some type of a deal is

724
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:13.599
in the works pending that testimony him. I mean, really, I haven't

725
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.880
read a lot. Yeah, I
think he helped kind of provide an alibi

726
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:21.639
for Fotus. I didn't read a
lot about his questioning of the police,

727
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:24.960
but I think that he originally may
have told them that he met with Photos

728
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:28.559
that morning to try to give him
an alibi. So I think he may

729
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.119
have lied for Fotus, and then
there's the whole thing with the rod and

730
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:37.079
gun club, which didn't lead anywhere, but it's still very suspicious but not

731
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:42.400
necessarily evidence. Yeah, exactly what
was he charged with? Conspiracy to commit

732
00:53:42.519 --> 00:53:46.039
murder? Yeah? So yeah,
again, I don't know what when he

733
00:53:46.119 --> 00:53:49.199
is going to go on trial,
if ever he met. Like I said,

734
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:52.880
I my speculation is that he had
some kind of a plea agreement to

735
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:57.920
maybe help in the case against Michelle. But again, I'll provide updates as

736
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:02.119
we learn more about that. We
may never know exactly what happened to Jennifer

737
00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:07.000
Farber Dulos. It's clear that Fords
killed her, but we don't know exactly

738
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:09.639
how. The fact that he had
brought zip ties, a rain poncho,

739
00:54:09.800 --> 00:54:14.960
gloves, and other items tell us
that he planned to restrain her before killing

740
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.440
her, which is horrible to think
about. I can only imagine the terror

741
00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:22.480
that Jennifer felt in her last moments. The fact that there was a large

742
00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:25.119
amount of blood in the garage and
that Fotus made an attempt to clean it

743
00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:30.159
up with a bunch of paper towels
tells me that things didn't go according to

744
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:34.199
plan. I'm sure he didn't intend
to leave that much physical evidence at the

745
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:38.480
scene. Investigators have searched extensively for
Jennifer's body, as we've talked about it.

746
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:43.000
They searched the pond where Potus taught
the kids how to water ski.

747
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:47.519
They searched several properties owned by Potus's
company. They searched the property of a

748
00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:53.159
home that Jennifer's mom owned near New
Canaan. They've used cadaver dogs and also

749
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:58.280
dogs trained to sniff out electronics,
which I didn't even know as a thing,

750
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:02.719
because Jennifer's phone has also been recovered. They shut down an incineration plant

751
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:07.079
in Hartford. Fotus was not the
smartest criminal in the world, given all

752
00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:10.239
the evidence they left behind, but
the fact that he was somehow able to

753
00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:15.360
disappear Jennifer's body and the relatively short
window of time that he had is baffling,

754
00:55:15.440 --> 00:55:19.800
as we've talked about already. But
wherever you are, Jennifer, I

755
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:22.719
hope that you're able to rest in
peace. Oh for sure. That's that's

756
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:25.920
heartbreaking. You know how I feel
about these cases When these kids are left,

757
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:30.840
Yeah, and no closure, it's
just Yeah, it's incredibly sad.

758
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:36.639
Recently, Jennifer's family issued a statement, quote, we continue to grieve the

759
00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:40.119
loss of her loving devotion to her
children and family, her friendship, courage,

760
00:55:40.360 --> 00:55:45.559
brilliance, humor, and singular ability
to touch the lives of the people

761
00:55:45.639 --> 00:55:51.119
she encountered. The statement went on
to say that quote intimate partner violence cuts

762
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:55.119
across gender, economic, and racial
ethnic lines, and it disproportionately affects women

763
00:55:55.159 --> 00:56:00.519
of color and asks the public to
help change the disparity by don't to the

764
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:05.639
Black and Missing Foundation. Jennifer's five
children, who at this point range in

765
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:09.039
age from seventeen to thirteen, have
been living with Jennifer's mom, Gloria,

766
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:13.239
who is now eighty eight years old. Wow. I'm sure they have a

767
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:16.559
privileged upbringing, given Gloria's wealth,
but they've been deprived of a mother who

768
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:20.440
loved them more than anything in the
world. And I really hope that they're

769
00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:25.400
doing okay. And that is all
I have on the story of Jennifer Farber

770
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:30.960
Dulos. Oh. That was really
that's very sad. The kids, so

771
00:56:31.000 --> 00:56:36.400
it was their extended family. Do
they see his family at all? I

772
00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:38.360
do not know. I suspect that
they don't, though I think a lot

773
00:56:38.440 --> 00:56:44.000
of his extended family are overseas in
Greece anyway, So I'm just guessing that

774
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:49.480
there's probably not a lot of warm
relations there between Jennifer's mom and his family,

775
00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:52.599
but I don't know for sure.
Well, I know you're not feeling

776
00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:57.000
well today, so you did it
a spectacular job. So thanks for hanging

777
00:56:57.000 --> 00:57:01.440
in there for us. And a
lot of listeners always say that we or

778
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:07.199
you have soothing voices. And I
was feeling today because I almost sowned are

779
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:10.280
supposedly for a second there. I
have to be careful because I always I

780
00:57:10.360 --> 00:57:14.920
like to fall asleep to dateline.
Yeah, usually, but I was getting

781
00:57:14.920 --> 00:57:20.159
a little sleep there. But heartbreaking
case, yeah for sure. And I

782
00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:24.199
again, I will update everyone when
Michelle Traconis goes to trial and if there

783
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:28.920
are any other developments, because the
case is still not resolved yet. Where

784
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:32.039
do you think her body could have
been taken? I really, I mean

785
00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:37.000
I I wish, I wish I
did know, But yeah, I mean

786
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:40.320
it's got to be somewhere within like
a forty five minute you know, radius

787
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:45.760
of Farmington where Photus's house was.
But that leaves a lot of space.

788
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:50.480
I mean, there's a lot of
open areas in that part of Connecticut,

789
00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:54.480
so really hard to say, just
heartbreaking and baffling. And yeah, you

790
00:57:54.559 --> 00:57:58.440
just wish that there could be some
closure there, that it would at least

791
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.400
help to find her body and have
at least that much closure. But you

792
00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:06.840
know there will never be real justice
in this case because you know, Photus

793
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:15.280
is not there to stand trial either, So that's too bad. So we're

794
00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:20.960
having our first snow out there we
are. The ground is white outside our

795
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:22.320
window. It looks like we could
have an up to an inch right now.

796
00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:24.880
What do you think? I would
say? It looks like about close

797
00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:29.760
to an inch. Yeah, and
our little baby boy he's driving. He's

798
00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:34.000
driving back to Marquat today, which
seven hour I'm not happy about, but

799
00:58:34.039 --> 00:58:37.440
hopefully he'll get there safely. Yeah. We tried to talk him into staying

800
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:39.920
an extra day and skipping your classes
on and he wouldn't do it. You

801
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:43.719
would think he'd be all over that, oh, skip my classes on Monday

802
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:46.280
and stay extra day, but no, he wanted to get on the road.

803
00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:52.840
Was sad. We'll be waiting with
baited breath until he arrives. Yeah,

804
00:58:52.920 --> 00:58:58.320
so do you want to talk about
your favorite new show? The Golden

805
00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:01.960
Bachelor you've been give me to watch
it. You just can't get enough of

806
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:05.639
it. You're like, honey,
when can we watch Golden Match? Though

807
00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:09.960
I know, I just can't get
off cool. So I haven't watched The

808
00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:14.199
Bachelor in a long time. I
used to watch it pretty religiously, but

809
00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:16.599
for the last four to five or
six seasons, I haven't watched. But

810
00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:21.559
I heard a lot of people talking
about is it Cherry or Gary? It's

811
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:23.840
Cherry? I think I think it's
Gary. Is Gary? I think?

812
00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:29.199
So okay, Yeah, it's okay
Gary. Sorry, if I'm getting this

813
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:32.559
run, it's really heartwarming, it's
nice. I think there needs to be

814
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:38.760
a better representation of the world on
TV. Sometimes I will agree with you

815
00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:43.840
there that it's good to have older
people represented on TV. But he seems

816
00:59:43.880 --> 00:59:46.760
like a lovely to be fair,
I don't know what's going to happen because

817
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:57.280
I think we've watched two episodes and
if there's too much, too much it's

818
00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:01.280
like kissing these women like Ry first
up, So it was like Garry or

819
01:00:01.360 --> 01:00:07.639
Jerry. Remember Parks and Recreation where
there was that one guy and they always

820
01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:10.360
called him Larry or Jerry or you
can never get Jerry. His name is

821
01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:16.280
Jerry. But they Yeah, these
women on the Golden Bachelor are so aggressive

822
01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:20.719
though, that's that's what that's okay. I was going to go with beautiful

823
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:23.599
and amazing. They are, but
like every one of the mom is up

824
01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:30.840
there like fall in love with me, I know. So no spoilers because

825
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:35.079
Riches he's just been bugging me.
Like I said, to watch another episode

826
01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:37.360
of the Golden Bachelor. But if
you haven't watched it, I mean admit

827
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:40.719
that, maybe you can't even admit
it. What do you want me to

828
01:00:40.760 --> 01:00:45.239
admit that you enjoyed it? No, I haven't enjoyed it. Oh really

829
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:51.519
I thought you did? All right? Well really okay, I think it's

830
01:00:51.519 --> 01:00:54.480
sweet. So if you haven't watched
it, you can let me know if

831
01:00:54.480 --> 01:00:58.679
you what you think, because I
think it's heartwarming and sweet. Just see

832
01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:02.159
people have a second chance. Yes
at Love? Yes? All right?

833
01:01:02.199 --> 01:01:07.440
Well, thank you everyone for listening. We appreciate each and Kelly for recommending

834
01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:12.039
this episode. Yeah, super interesting
case, Kelly, thank you for letting

835
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:15.679
us know about it. Well,
please like, rate, review, subscribe,

836
01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:20.880
follow us on social media, send
us an email at lovemarykill at gmail

837
01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:24.039
dot com. We love you,
guys, and we appreciate all your feedback.

838
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:28.760
I'd love to talk to you guys
on social media. So thank you

839
01:01:28.760 --> 01:01:30.960
so much for your support. It
means everything. It does. Until next

840
01:01:31.000 --> 01:02:10.559
time, don't kill your husband and
don't kill your wife. The accumpant, the comp