Oct. 7, 2024

Jennifer and Michael Blagg - Part 1

Jennifer and Michael Blagg - Part 1
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By all accounts, Jennifer and Michael Blagg were the perfect couple and the envy of their friends. Michael had a great job and was devoted to his wife and adorable 6-year-old daughter, Abby. But when Michael came home from work on November 13, 2001, to find his wife and daughter missing and bloodstains in the bedroom, his world was shattered. What unfolded in the coming months was a shocking story of a man leading two lives, one public and one private. Begging the question, can you ever really know anyone?

Support on on Patreon and listen to both parts today.

Today's snack:
Rocky Mountain Avalance Bars (no-bake)
4 (24 oz )cups white chocolate chips
3/4 (6.6 oz) cup peanut butter
3 cups rice krispies
3 cups mini marshmallows
1/2 cup crushed pretzels
1 cup semi-sweet chocolate chips
-------------------------------------------

  • Place semi-sweet chocolate chips in the freezer for at least 15 minutes.
  • Line a 9 x11 pan with parchment paper.
  • Melt peanut butter and white chocolate chips in the microwave for 90 seconds at 50% power, stir, and repeat for another 90 seconds, at 50% power. Stir until smooth.
  • Stir in pretzels, mini marshmallows, rice krispies, and semi-sweet chocolate chips.
  • Pour into the prepared pan and press down firmly. Sprinkle lightly with flaked salt, if desired. Refrigerate until firm, about 1 hour.
  • Note:
Every microwave is different; white chocolate can seize quickly, so use caution, and start slowly.

Sources:
WEBVTT

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Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one

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thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome the Love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina.

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How are you.

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I'm doing great? How are you?

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I'm good. Welcome to year three of Love, Mary Kill.

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Oh yeah, this is our first episode of year three.

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So exciting.

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It's it's unbelievable.

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Do you think we'd make it this far?

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He'll no, no, no way, but here we are.

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It's fall. Yeah, finally, and what are you wearing today?

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I'm wearing a T shirt and shorts.

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It's still no, it's still I wasn't judging on wearing

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short It's just I'm surprised you're not representing one of

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the many Michigan and sports teams.

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Yeah. Well, today's kind of a little bit of an

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off day. I know it's Sunday, but the Lions don't

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play until Monday night and the Tigers don't start in

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the playoffs until Tuesday.

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We were super excited about that, super excited. This isn't

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going to be released until.

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Hopefully the Tigers are still in the playoffs by the

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time this is released, but.

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You will be so excited. You actually asked me if

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we could sort of go fund me per ticket it's

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a bit of playoffs, but I said no, Yeah, how

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much do you think they would go for?

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I have no idea.

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Remember when they were in the World.

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Series and you bought tickets for me and our son

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to go.

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Yeah, that was really nice of me.

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I still don't know how much that cost, and I

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still don't really want to know.

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But I don't think it was as bad as you think.

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You I don't even remember, honestly, how much do you think.

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I don't know that under a thousand okay, I which

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is a lot, but I thought, I mean, our son

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was little at the time, and I was like, this

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is just a once in a lifetime thing that you

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guys would have that memory forever.

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Yeah, for sure. So I do have one more thing

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I wanted to say about sports before we move on.

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So I made a little wager and I haven't told

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you you really, So do you know what a parlay is?

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I mean, I know the word.

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No parlay is basically, you're making two bets and both

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of them have to come true for you to win, okay,

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and so you win a lot more money if you Yeah.

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So I made a parlay bet win. I bet a

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couple few days ago, actually a couple of weeks ago.

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So I bet on the Tigers to win the American

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League Championship and the Lions to win the Super Bowl.

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I bet ten dollars and if it wins, it'll pay

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off like almost five thousand dollars. So, oh wow, you

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got that to look for it.

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I thought you were going to say it'll pay off

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her house. That is awesome.

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Quite that good, but still very exciting.

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Well that's I like that for you. Well, that's fun.

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It makes it more fun. But it could be defeated

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pretty quickly.

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It could it could be over next week.

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And you've been listening to sports talk. I love Mary Kill.

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Any listeners out there if you would like to start

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a sports podcast with just send us a DM. I

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did bring you a snack. Hey, today's case takes place

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in Colorado, and I brought you Rocky Mountain Avalanche bars,

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which I'm pretty sure I made before podcast. I think

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I did, but they're worth repeating for sure. They're great,

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they're easy, they're tasty and I brought you a crisp

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Michigan honey crisp apple.

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Okay, I'm excited.

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They're so good. Yeah, you've had I mean, we've had

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them in the house for a week.

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Yeah, really good.

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All right, We're gonna take a quick break and then

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ritual rate my snacks. So what did you think?

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I mean? I love I love the Avalanche bars. They're amazing.

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Love them. I think this may be a controversial opinion.

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I think that marshmallows are an underrated dessert. That's an element.

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I think some people don't like marshmallows, but I think

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they're I think they're amazing.

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I don't like to eat marshmallows plain, but when they're

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covered in peanut butter and chocolate, they're pretty good.

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Yeah. Yeah, ten out of oh.

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Okay, what about the honeycrisp apple.

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Honey crisp was great too. Now, as you know, honey

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crisp is not my favorite variety of apple. I'm a

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Fuji man. But the honey crisp are really really good

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right now, So I'm giving that a nine out of ten. Wow.

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I love a honeycrisp apple, especially this time of year.

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I love it when it's cold and crisp ten out

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of toen on both snacks. Let me just talk about

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the Avalanche bars really quick. I just I think they're

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named that because there's a candy company called the Rocky

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Mountain Candy Company, which is out of Colorado, and I

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think it's just something that they made up. But they

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are white chocolate chips, peanut butter, rice, crispies, marshmallows, and

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one cup of chocolate chips. Most of the recipes that

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you come across will say many chocolate chips, but I

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just went ahead and put big chocolate chips. Make sure

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you put them in the freezer though, otherwise they just

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kind of melt into the other stuff. We will post

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the recipe. One thing that I added to the recipe, well,

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I doubled the peanut butter because I like to taste

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the peanut butter. And I put crushed pretzels in there.

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Oh do you what do you think about the crushed pretzels?

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That was my addition. I think, yeah, just a little

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bit of salt. Yeah. So I will post my version

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and I think it's a pretty standard recipe. If you

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want the original recipe, just go online and you can

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search for Rocky Mountain Avalanche Bars. It's an easy, no

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bake recipe. You just have to heat the chocolate and

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the peanut butter in the microwave and then you just

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pour it over the rice crispies and the other stuff.

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But there are a couple of it's one of those

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forgiving recipes. You can use nut butters if you have

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a peanut butter allergy in your family, and how you

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can throw anything you want in there. I threw the

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pretzels in there. And you can also use chocolate like

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regular chocolate chips rather than white chocolate chips if you

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want excellent. Okay, enough about that. Today, I'm going to

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tell you the story of Jennifer and Michael Blagg and

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two of our listeners, Meredith and Susannah, recommended this case

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I think a while back. But I'm fine getting to it.

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But today's episode may be disturbing for some listeners. It

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contains discussions of pornography, domestic abuse, sexual situations, suicide, and

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the death of a child, so please listen with care.

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On Tuesday, November thirteenth, two thousand and one, thirty eight

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year old Mike Blag had a hectic day at work

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as the acting plant manager for Amatech Dixon. That day,

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he oversaw the shipment of heavy assembly line machinery to

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a newly acquired factory in Mexico. Despite his busy day

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at work, he made time to call his wife Jennifer.

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He typically checked in on her between three and nine

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times a day.

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Wow, kind of a lot.

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If you called me even three times a day, I'm

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not sure. I wouldn't like it at all.

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Yeah, Hey, how are you doing? What are you up to?

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But we both work from home, so it would be

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really weird if you called me nine times.

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You called me once or twice a day.

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I do call you, yeah, because sometimes I'm like, this

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is too long to text. I just yeah, I'm sorry

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for that. On November thirteenth, Mike called four times, starting

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at seven a m. To make sure that Jennifer and

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their daughter Abbey were awake for school. Most days, Jennifer

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volunteered at Abbe's school Bookcliff Christian School. Each time Mike called,

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he got the answering machine. At four pm, he realized

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with mild concern that he hadn't talked to Jennifer all day,

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but he assumed that she was simply busy. With other things.

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At four twenty pm, Mike returned home to Pine Terrace

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Court in Grand Junction, Colorado. The Blags lived on a

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quiet cul de sac in a pleasant middle class neighborhood.

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When Mike entered the house, he expected his adorable, energetic

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daughter Abby six to come charging to greet him, but

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the house was quiet. Mike was sneaking some early Christmas

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presents into the house. He was grateful for the moment

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of peace so he could quickly stow the shopping bags

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away undetected. He realized, though, that something was a miss.

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He peered into the primary bedroom, which was visible from

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the entryway. The usually tidy room looked ransacked. When Mike

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walked into the room, he saw a pool of blood

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on the carpet, A lot of blood. He was too

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sickened by the gruesome scene to use the bedroom phone.

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He ran and called nine one one from the kitchen.

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I could not find a good recording of the call,

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and the call is pretty important, so we are going

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to reenact the call. And it's a little lengthy. Nine

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one one. What's your emergency?

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Oh my god, it's in the house.

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Okay, what's going on?

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I just got home from work, and there's blood all

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over the bed and there's stuff all over the floor.

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My family's gone. My daughter and my wife aren't here.

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Okay, calm down. You're at Pine Terrace Court, yes, okay,

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hold on. And there's blood on.

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The bed, yes, And the back door is open.

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Things are messed up in your room.

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Just in the master bedroom.

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It looks like how old is your wife?

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She's thirty thirty four, she'll be thirty five this January.

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And how old is your child?

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Six? Oh god?

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Okay, calm down. Is your wife's car out front? Mike?

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Let me look in the garage? Okay, yeah, in the garage.

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Okay, hold on, Have you touched anything, Mike.

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The front door. I came through the front door and

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now I touched the garage door to look in the garage.

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Okay. And the phone, correct, yeah, the phone. Okay, don't

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touch anything else.

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Okay.

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Can you tell me about the blood. What does it

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look like? Does it look like somebody laid there in blood?

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Does it look like it's splattered?

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Oh? Her pillows are gone. Her pillows, Yeah, she sleeps

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with two pillows and they're gone. And there's a big,

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big pool of blood about where they would be and

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there's it's stripped all over the side of the bed

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onto the floor.

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Okay, hold on, so the blood's dripping off the bed

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onto the floor. Mike. Do you have a cordless phone?

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Yes?

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Can I get you to go outside and talk to you? Please?

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Yes?

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Okay, Okay, let me know when you're outside. Okay, Okay,

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you outside?

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Yes?

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What I want you to do, Mike? Can you sit

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on your stairs? Do you have a porch or something

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you can sit on?

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I'm on the back porch.

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Okay. I want you to sit down, and I want

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you to breathe real deep and real slow for a minute. Mike.

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How old are you?

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Thirty eight?

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Have you and your wife been having problems?

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No?

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No?

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No?

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And when was the last time you talked to your wife?

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Last night? Before we went to bed.

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And everything was okay?

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Yes?

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Does your daughter go to school?

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Yes, she goes to book Cliff Christian School.

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Did she go to school today?

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Nobody's called. I don't know when did you leave this morning?

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I always leave at six o'clock in the morning. I'm

235
00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:29.200
going back inside. I'm going to go look in my

236
00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:29.879
daughter's room.

237
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.360
You're going to go look in your daughter's room. Yes, Okay,

238
00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:34.960
you need to tell me what you're doing. You need

239
00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:36.120
to tell me what you're seeing.

240
00:10:36.440 --> 00:10:39.519
I pushed open the door without touching anything. Okay, turned

241
00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:40.279
on the light switch.

242
00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:40.879
U huh.

243
00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:43.440
Her school clothes are still waiting for her. Her bed

244
00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:44.159
is messed up.

245
00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:46.159
Her bed is messed up as if she slept in it.

246
00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:48.919
The covers are pulled back and there's no blood.

247
00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.519
And her school clothes are still laid out, so she

248
00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:52.240
never put them on.

249
00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:54.799
No, she never put them on. Her fan is still

250
00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:57.799
on too, so she didn't turn off her fan this morning.

251
00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:00.399
So she never got dressed. No. Okay, Mike, I need

252
00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:02.960
you to go back outside. Okay, let me know when

253
00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:03.759
you're back outside.

254
00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:06.879
Okay, I'm back outside and sitting on my porch again.

255
00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:10.480
Take some deepress and let it out real slow. I

256
00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:12.399
don't want you to go into shock or anything.

257
00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:13.879
Okay, Mike.

258
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:15.639
Do you want me to send an ambulance to check

259
00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:16.039
you out?

260
00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:17.919
I don't know. I don't know what to do.

261
00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.320
We have officers and route and I'm going to keep

262
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:23.240
you on the phone till they get there. Okay, Mike,

263
00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:26.759
take some deepress and let them out real slow. Okay, Okay,

264
00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:28.240
keep breathing. You're doing good, Mike.

265
00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:29.600
Where can they be?

266
00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:31.879
I don't know, Mike. And you said you and your

267
00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:35.480
wife you're getting along? Yes, and everything was okay? Yes,

268
00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:38.080
when you left this morning, was she up? No?

269
00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.200
She stays asleep until six thirty. Both Abby and Jennifer

270
00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:42.279
get up at six thirty.

271
00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:44.159
Your wife's a stay at home mom.

272
00:11:44.440 --> 00:11:46.000
Yes, she usually helps at school.

273
00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:47.039
She works at the school.

274
00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:48.799
She doesn't work, she volunteers.

275
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:51.320
When you were looking around the house, did you notice

276
00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:52.320
anything else missing?

277
00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.279
I only went into the master bedroom and upstairs.

278
00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.120
You have an upstairs home, then, yes, it's two story.

279
00:11:58.279 --> 00:11:59.759
And you said you were in the garage and the

280
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:02.919
car still there. Yes, so you didn't look in any

281
00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:06.360
other rooms? No, okay, that's fine. We'll let the deputies

282
00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:06.679
do that.

283
00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:07.399
Okay.

284
00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:08.840
Do you have any weapons in the house?

285
00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.320
Yeah, A pistol in our closet in.

286
00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:12.200
The master bedroom.

287
00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:12.600
Yes.

288
00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:14.399
Does your wife know where it is?

289
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:18.600
Yes, she did, all right. We didn't keep it loaded though.

290
00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:21.320
Oh you didn't. No, okay, we'll just let the officers

291
00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:22.320
know that they're en route.

292
00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:22.879
Yes.

293
00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:25.240
What's your wife's first.

294
00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:25.960
Name, Jennifer?

295
00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.759
And your daughter's name Abby? And Abby's in what grade?

296
00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:29.639
First grade.

297
00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:32.679
The other dispatchers are gonna call so we can find

298
00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:33.559
out about school.

299
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:35.960
She's in Miss Faznac's class.

300
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.679
Miss Basnacht Faznact. Come on, you're doing fine. I know

301
00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.679
it's really hard. Let's just keep reathing untill they get there.

302
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:45.159
You didn't call and talk to your wife anytime during

303
00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:45.480
the day.

304
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.840
I tried about four times and never got through.

305
00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:49.080
So the phone just rang.

306
00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:50.919
Well, we've got an answering machine.

307
00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:52.519
Oh so you did leave a message.

308
00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:54.720
Yes, I tried her cell phone and I tried her

309
00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:55.120
at home.

310
00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:57.759
Does your wife have a medical problem.

311
00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:00.840
She's got a multiple value of prolapse.

312
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:02.120
What does that mean.

313
00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:05.919
It's similar to a heart murmur? Oh, okay, she's got

314
00:13:06.039 --> 00:13:09.840
vulvar vestibulitis, which is a chronic problem with the vestibular

315
00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:13.159
glands in her genitals. She had her gallbladder removed. She

316
00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:15.240
had so many problems.

317
00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.120
So she does have problems. Come on, Mike, let's take

318
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:19.000
some deep breaths.

319
00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:21.399
Friday is our tenth anniversary.

320
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:23.799
Have you lived in Grand Junction the entire time?

321
00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.519
No, we moved around. I've been in the Navy, I've

322
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.720
been an Allied signal, and now I'm with amateec.

323
00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.080
Okay, let me know who that is that's showing up.

324
00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:33.519
I think it might be the ambulance.

325
00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:35.639
Okay, end of call.

326
00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:38.320
Sorry for our bad acting there.

327
00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:43.679
Bad acting. Yeah, I really can't just cry on com.

328
00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.600
And I wish I could have found a better recording

329
00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:49.600
because his demeanor was at times he was calm, at

330
00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:53.679
times he was not calm. Did anything stand out for

331
00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:54.399
you on the call?

332
00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:57.399
Well, he did refer to her in the past tense,

333
00:13:57.639 --> 00:14:01.159
she had so many problems. I think he said that

334
00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:02.120
stood out for sure.

335
00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:04.440
And do you think it was odd that he didn't

336
00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:07.879
check the garage for a vehicle and he didn't look

337
00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:10.039
in Abbey's room before he called nine one?

338
00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.120
Definitely odd that he didn't look at Abbey's room. I

339
00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:13.799
would think that would be the first thing you would

340
00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:17.120
think of, is my daughter safe? Is she here? Like? Yeah,

341
00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:20.279
that for sure. The garage still Yeah, a little strange,

342
00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:21.480
but not as odd.

343
00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:24.919
Do you think it was odd he mentioned vulvarvestab latest

344
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:25.840
a little bit.

345
00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.799
He kind of went into some pretty clinical detail.

346
00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:32.679
Yeah, that was very strunge. That had nothing to do

347
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:35.200
with his wife disappearing, right, do you know what that

348
00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:35.840
condition is?

349
00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:37.919
I mean, only from what I just read.

350
00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:41.519
Yeah, I believe it makes intercourse painful, like there's a

351
00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.720
lot of inflammation and it can be like extremely painful,

352
00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:45.960
like a stabbing like pain.

353
00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:46.440
Okay.

354
00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:49.600
Deputy Tim Moore was the first to arrive at Pine

355
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:53.240
Terrace Court. He found an emotional mic Blag sitting on

356
00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:56.720
the front porch. When Deputy Moore entered the house, he

357
00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.000
noticed the back door was open, but there were no

358
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:02.279
signs of forest. He wasn't sure if Michael Black had

359
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:05.039
left it open by a mistake. The back door had

360
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.759
a small, inexpensive door handle alarm, but the batteries had

361
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:12.679
been removed. Do you know what that It's just a

362
00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:15.679
little contraption that if someone is to open the door,

363
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:17.799
like in the middle of the night, it makes like

364
00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.080
a siren type sound. The first floor was tidy, but

365
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:23.879
when he entered the bedroom he spotted a puddle of

366
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.320
blood that stained the right side of the mattress. The

367
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:29.080
blood had dripped onto the floor and pulled on the carpet.

368
00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:31.960
The blood was dark and congealed, as if it had

369
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:34.759
been there for a while. No blood stains were found

370
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:37.559
exiting the room, as you'd expect to find if a

371
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.759
bloody body had been carried or dragged through the house.

372
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.399
Jennifer's jewelry box lay open on the floor and all

373
00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.120
of the jewelry was missing, and the contents of her

374
00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:50.360
purse were dumped out, but the cash and credit cards

375
00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:53.679
were still there. A pair of sweatpants had been kicked off,

376
00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:56.600
and inside there were two pair of underwear, along with

377
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.679
a few other articles of clothing scattered on the floor.

378
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.320
Mike Blagg said that his wife would not have left

379
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.240
the room in such a condition. Jennifer's key to her

380
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.399
mini van was found in the bedroom among the detritus

381
00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:11.720
from her purse. Mike had the other one on the

382
00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.960
key ring in his pocket. The deputy went upstairs and

383
00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.039
found Abbey's bed unmade, a baby doll lying near her

384
00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.399
barbie pillow, her school clothes sitting on her craft table.

385
00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.679
There was no blood in her room. Deputy More thought

386
00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:26.720
it was odd that the ceiling fans were running in

387
00:16:26.759 --> 00:16:30.000
both of the bedrooms. Jennifer and Abbey were nowhere to

388
00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.039
be found. He thought it was odd that the ceiling

389
00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:35.799
fans were running. Our ceiling fans are.

390
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:38.039
Never I know. I was thinking the same thing.

391
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.919
Grand Junction, where the Black family lived, is the largest City,

392
00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.759
between Salt Lake City and Denver. Grand Junction lies in

393
00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.360
Masa County, the fourth largest county in Colorado. Based on

394
00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:53.519
land mass, the county is seventy six percent public land.

395
00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:56.720
That's a lot of public land. It is, providing endless

396
00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:01.039
open space to explore. The population of Mesa County according

397
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.919
to the twenty twenty censuses one hundred fifty six thousand

398
00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.839
and Grand Junction's population is sixty five thousand. The name

399
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.559
Grand Junction stems from it being at the junction of

400
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:13.799
the Colorado River formerly known as the Grand River and

401
00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:17.160
the Gunnison River. Grand Junction sits in a bowl shaped

402
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:21.559
valley ringed by tall mountains, desert mesas, and red rock cliffs.

403
00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:25.279
Europeans arrived in Grand Junction in the eighteen eighties, but

404
00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.200
the area had been inhabited for thousands of years by

405
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:33.519
indigenous tribes, including the Ute and Fremont, among others. Remnants

406
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:38.079
of tribal history remain, including petroglyphs and cave paintings. In

407
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.839
the late nineteenth century, settlers were drawn to the fertile

408
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:45.319
Grand Junction area for its agricultural potential. This oasis remains

409
00:17:45.359 --> 00:17:50.279
one of Colorado's largest food producers including peaches, pears, cherries, apples,

410
00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.119
and other produce. In addition to food production, the Grand

411
00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:58.799
Junction area includes unprayer paralleled natural beauty. Nature's Trifecta lives there,

412
00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:03.000
which includes Colorado National Monument known as a Mini Grand Canyon,

413
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.559
The Grand Mesa, the largest flat top mountain in the world,

414
00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.279
bursting with over three hundred lakes and rattlesnake arches, the

415
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:13.240
second most concentration of natural arches in the world.

416
00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:16.000
Sounds like a beautiful place. I know.

417
00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:19.400
I really want to go to Colorado sometime soon. Well,

418
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.839
Mesa County is a beautiful place to live. Sadly, it

419
00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:24.720
has a suicide rate forty percent higher than the national

420
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.519
average and higher than the rest of Colorado. Eight of

421
00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:31.359
ten states with the highest suicide rates are located in

422
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.839
mountain states, and it's been trending upwards since twenty twenty.

423
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:39.079
The community is working hard on suicide prevention programs, starting

424
00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:40.039
in high schools.

425
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:43.240
It's really strange. Wonder what the correlation is.

426
00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:46.640
I don't know why suicide rates are higher in mountain states,

427
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:50.960
but I did read something about sometimes people feel isolated

428
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.960
in those areas because of the mountains. Yeah, I didn't

429
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:58.000
know that it's such beautiful places. Yeah.

430
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:02.039
Jennifer Joe Lowman was born on January eighth, nineteen sixty seven,

431
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:06.240
in Oklahoma. Her parents divorced when she was young. Jennifer's

432
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.240
father was a state trooper. He was an alcoholic, but

433
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:11.839
entered treatment and was in recovery at the time of

434
00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.279
his death in nineteen ninety nine. He had remarried after

435
00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:19.319
he divorced Jennifer's mom, Marylyn. Jennifer had told some friends

436
00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.680
that her father had molested her as a child. Jennifer

437
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.799
has one brother, David, three years older Jennifer, David, and

438
00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:30.079
Marylyn were a very close knit family. After the divorce,

439
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.400
Jennifer's father chose to not have a relationship with his children.

440
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.160
This crushed Jennifer. She pined for a father figure in

441
00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:40.039
her life. She picked God as her surrogate father and

442
00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:43.359
became a born again Christian when she was fourteen. In

443
00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.440
her journals, which she wrote as a conversation between herself

444
00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:51.240
and God, she often called God Dad. Jennifer suffered from

445
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:55.039
bouts of depression and anorexia after she was sexually assaulted

446
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.160
by a male relative when she was twelve.

447
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.039
I believe this was in addition to her father.

448
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.759
Oh Boy. Jennifer was a good student, though she enjoyed

449
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:08.039
ballet and piano lessons. The Loman's lives revolved around the

450
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.799
Baptist Church. Jennifer especially loved singing in the church choir

451
00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:16.200
and attending youth group activities. Maryland married a man named

452
00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:19.759
Harold Conway, who became a devoted and loving stepfather to

453
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:24.160
Jennifer and David. Jennifer was popular and outgoing in high school.

454
00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.200
She was a member of the Pep Club, powderpuff football

455
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.720
drill team, and drama club. Jennifer graduated from high school

456
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:35.160
in nineteen eighty five and then attended Oklahoma State University.

457
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:39.079
After Jennifer was settled in college, Marilyn and Harold moved

458
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:42.599
to San Diego. Jennifer missed them so much that she

459
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:46.519
transferred to National University in San Diego to finish her degree.

460
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:51.039
This is where she met Michael Blagg. Michael Francis Blagg

461
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.480
was born in Sherman, Texas, in nineteen sixty three. He

462
00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:57.759
has two brothers and one sister. His father was in

463
00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.920
the Air Force and the family moved frequently. They lived

464
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:06.160
in Corpus Christi, Texas, Hawaii, and Georgia, among others. Mike's father,

465
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:09.079
Colonel John Blagg, worked as an attorney for the Judge

466
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:13.279
Advocate General's office. His mother, Betsy, was a corporate attorney.

467
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.359
Mike was a good kid and an excellent student. He

468
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:20.119
earned several academic awards in high school. He ran track

469
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.359
and played football. After he graduated from high school in

470
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:27.000
nineteen eighty one, he majored in nuclear engineering at Georgia Tech.

471
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.759
While in college, Mike was in the Navy ROTC program.

472
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:33.200
He married his first wife when he was twenty one.

473
00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:37.440
They parted amicably a year later. Mike said she didn't

474
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.079
enjoy military life and wanted a career of her own.

475
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:44.200
When she was contacted by investigators, she had nothing negative

476
00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.240
to say about Mike. He entered the Navy full time

477
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.599
after college and began helicopter flight training. Mike worked on

478
00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:54.519
the USS Kiddie Hawk as a flight deck officer during

479
00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.720
Desert Storm and rose to the rank of lieutenant commander.

480
00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:02.200
He oversaw twenty thousand ten takeoffs and landings without one crash.

481
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.160
After his divorce. While at sea, he partied often and

482
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.759
dated lots of women. In nineteen eighty seven, a lifelong Catholic,

483
00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.160
Mike became a born again Christian, but wasn't quite ready

484
00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:18.079
to fully embrace the lifestyle. Mike met his future wife,

485
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.920
Jennifer Lowman, while stationed in San Diego. She was studying

486
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:27.319
business administration at National University. Jennifer was bubbly, gregarious, and funny,

487
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:31.839
known for her distinctive laugh, but she was also deeply religious.

488
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.640
She prayed over every decision. They met at a beach party.

489
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.160
Mike's best friend was dating a friend of Jennifer's. On

490
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:41.960
their first date on July fourth, nineteen eighty eight, they

491
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.880
went to a Japanese restaurant and then saw who framed

492
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:49.960
Roger Rabbit. The night ended with fireworks, literal fireworks. A

493
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.440
friend of Jennifer's said that she had always wanted to

494
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.720
marry a pilot. Mike was away frequently with his carrier Battlegroup,

495
00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.720
for extended tours in the Persian Gulf. Jennifer waited for him.

496
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:04.279
After three years of dating, Jennifer twenty four and Mike

497
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:09.079
twenty eight were married on November sixteenth, nineteen ninety one.

498
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:13.160
After their wedding, they moved to Corpus Christi, Texas. Jennifer

499
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.000
and Mike were a good fit. His traditional views on

500
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:19.680
gender roles aligned with Jennifer's desire for a husband who

501
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:22.599
would take care of her and guide her through life.

502
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.920
She was comfortable being subservient to her husband. However, early

503
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.640
in their marriage, Mike was still drinking and partying more

504
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.559
than Jennifer was comfortable with, and she threatened to leave

505
00:23:32.599 --> 00:23:35.880
Mike if he didn't change his ways. He stopped drinking.

506
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:40.119
Jennifer became pregnant during the summer of nineteen ninety four.

507
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.559
Her pregnancy was challenging. Initially, she failed to gain weight,

508
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.039
but eventually gained over seventy pounds, which was difficult for

509
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.400
a recovering anorexic. Mike returned to see on the USS

510
00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:55.400
Kiddie Hawk during the last few months of Jennifer's pregnancy.

511
00:23:56.200 --> 00:23:59.640
He missed Abby's birth on March twenty first, nineteen ninety five,

512
00:24:00.200 --> 00:24:05.079
but Marylyn, Jennifer's mother, was there. After Abbey's birth, Jennifer

513
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:09.839
struggled with postpartum depression. After her difficult first pregnancy, Jennifer

514
00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:12.799
and Mike decided they were happy being a family of three.

515
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:16.119
Mike had of a sectomy about six months after Abbey

516
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:16.640
was born.

517
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.440
In nineteen ninety five, After ten years of service, Mike

518
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:23.920
left the Navy in part because Jennifer needed more support

519
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:26.640
at home. Deciding to leave his demanding job in the

520
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.160
Navy for civilian life was difficult for Mike. He missed

521
00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:34.519
the camaraderie, structure, and challenge of the military. After leaving

522
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:38.640
the Navy, Mike worked for Allied Signal, a military contractor

523
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.799
which later merged and became part of Honeywell. The Blags

524
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.759
moved several times in the following years, first to Phoenix,

525
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:51.039
then Simpsonville, North Carolina, and eventually Grand Junction. Jennifer loved

526
00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:54.480
living in the tight knit Christian community of Simpsonville. She

527
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:57.680
loved her church and easily made friends. Mike was a

528
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:01.119
Sunday school teacher and Jennifer sang in the and started

529
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:04.359
a woman's Bible study group. Mike was nominated to be

530
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.480
a deacon, which was a rare honor for someone so young,

531
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.240
but later he was forced to step down from his

532
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.839
role as a Sunday school teacher when some of the

533
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:18.759
teens complained about his ultra conservative views on abortion and homosexuality.

534
00:25:18.920 --> 00:25:21.119
The Blags bought a house they loved and were doing

535
00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:25.200
well financially. They owned his and hers BMW's, but later

536
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:28.200
traded them in for Dodge neons because they felt they

537
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:29.599
better served God that way.

538
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.680
I'm sure you have very fond memories of Dodge neon.

539
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:35.880
I did have a Dodge. I actually worked at the

540
00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:38.799
Chrysler factory one summer.

541
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.680
And you like inspected the Dodge neons before they rolled

542
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:42.480
out of the facts.

543
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:46.039
I was like eighteen working on you know, I wasn't. Yeah,

544
00:25:46.119 --> 00:25:49.079
that was crazy. Those were crazy times. That's when we

545
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:53.440
first met. Not long after, Mike wasn't happy in South Carolina,

546
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.079
in part because he and his boss didn't get along,

547
00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.680
which prompted the move to Grand Junction, Colorado. Jennifer was

548
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.640
heartbroken to leave her friends and church in Simpsonville. Mike

549
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:07.559
began a job with Amatech Dixon as the director of

550
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.720
operations in April two thousand. Amatech Dixon is a billion

551
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.000
dollar company that makes gages for large machinery and trucks.

552
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.400
The plant employed one hundred eighty people. He made a

553
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.160
good salary of one hundred and ten thousand dollars adjusted

554
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:26.160
for inflation. That's about two hundred thousand dollars today. Mike

555
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:28.799
had struggled in the private sector since leaving the Navy.

556
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:32.720
His most recent job review at Amtech rated his performance

557
00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:37.519
as acceptable. Mike was smart, capable, and detail oriented. He

558
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:40.880
specialized in lean manufacturing, but his heart wasn't in his

559
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.000
work and he wasn't excited about his future at Amtech.

560
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:48.720
Some co workers described him as cold, distant, controlling, obsessive,

561
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.759
and arrogant, but others called him stoic and reserved. He

562
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:55.400
was always looking for a better position, even if it

563
00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.960
meant moving, and he and Jennifer thought about this frequently.

564
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.920
She wanted to put down roots, especially now that six

565
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:05.519
year old Abbey was in school. Neighbors describe the Blags

566
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.680
as quiet and keeping to themselves, and their blinds were

567
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:12.440
always closed. One neighbor said she didn't even realize anyone

568
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:14.839
was living in the house, but others said they were

569
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.720
friendly when they went out for a walk or a

570
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:19.119
bike ride. What do you think our neighbors would say

571
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:19.599
about us?

572
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:23.599
Probably something very similar, like, yeah, they don't see us often,

573
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:25.559
but when we go out for a walk, we're friendly,

574
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:27.160
but we don't make a point.

575
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.240
I don't. I know a lot of people are friendly

576
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:31.839
with their neighbors and they spend time together, but we've

577
00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:34.119
never really had that We've always been, you.

578
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.200
Know, in our subdivision. Most people seem to keep to themselves.

579
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:41.559
I think so. I think that's how it is these days.

580
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.720
But maybe I'm proudly maybe not everywhere.

581
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.920
The Blags rented, hoping to purchase a house soon, but

582
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:50.720
their home in South Carolina didn't sell for ten months

583
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:54.160
and then for a loss of eight thousand dollars. It

584
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.119
put a debt into their savings and strain their marriage.

585
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:02.119
The Blags quickly found another church Injunction Monument Baptist Church.

586
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:05.039
They became fast friends with the pastor, Ray Shirley and

587
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:08.160
his wife, Diana. The Blag soon felt called to join

588
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.160
another church, New Hope Fellowship Church, where Jennifer and Mike

589
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:15.720
led a prayer ministry. They attended both churches multiple times

590
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.640
a week. Two months after the Twin Towers fell and

591
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.000
the Pentagon was struck, As the country reeled and tried

592
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:24.759
to process the tragic deaths of so many innocent people,

593
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:28.400
Mike constantly worried about the safety of his family. He

594
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:32.759
created a binder full of banking information, insurance policies, and

595
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:36.680
other important papers in case of an emergency. In the

596
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:38.920
fall of two thousand and one, Mike went to a

597
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:43.680
psychiatrist complaining of insomnia, depression, and a constant twitch in

598
00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:48.799
his leg. He was taking six different medications. Jennifer, too,

599
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:53.000
faced loads of health problems. She'd been having constant stomach

600
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.799
pains since she'd had a gall letter removal surgery in

601
00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:00.000
nineteen ninety nine. Jennifer was very sensitive to hormonal chain

602
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.200
in her body and had tried several medications to help

603
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.720
her control her anxiety and depression, but each time the

604
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.480
cure was worse than the symptom. She also suffered from

605
00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:14.839
vulver fvestibulitis, which we talked about earlier, and in the

606
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.559
year two thousand, she had a full hysterectomy due to endometriosis,

607
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:23.319
which gave her heavy, painful menstrual cycles and ovarian cysts.

608
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:26.920
Endometriosis affects one in ten women, and there is a

609
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:33.079
link between physical and sexual abuse and endometriosis. Epidemiologist doctor

610
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.319
Holly Harris of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, author

611
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:40.720
to study published in the journal Human Reproduction. She called

612
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:45.720
the association between childhood physical and sexual abuse and endometriosis,

613
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:50.680
particularly strong women who reported severe to chronic abuse in

614
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:54.720
childhood had a seventy nine percent higher risk of developing

615
00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:00.440
endometriosis in adulthood. Doctor Harris said, quote both physic and

616
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:04.640
sexual abuse were associated with endometriosis risk, and it's a

617
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:08.680
strong association. There's also a dose response, meaning the risk

618
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:13.359
increases with the increasing severity and type of abuse. End quote.

619
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.559
This doesn't mean that every woman who suffers from endometriosis

620
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.319
about two hundred million women worldwide, was physically or sexually

621
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:25.759
abused as a child, but it demonstrates that both abuse

622
00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:29.519
and endometriosis are far too common. One in three women

623
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.519
have reported some form of abuse in their lives. This

624
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.920
study does not prove that abuse causes endometriosis. The cause

625
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:39.319
is unknown, but the study does add to the growing

626
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:43.960
body of evidence linking adverse childhood experiences with poor health

627
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:49.000
outcomes in the future. Interesting Jennifer had recently been diagnosed

628
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:53.200
with chronic fatigue syndrome, and again, women with endometriosis are

629
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:57.680
eight times more likely to have chronic fatigue syndrome. Jennifer

630
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.200
was so exhausted she sometimes needed to take up to

631
00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:04.599
ten days off from her usual schedule. In May two

632
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.400
thousand and one, Jennifer thought she may have a brain tumor,

633
00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:10.000
but her MRI came back clear.

634
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:10.799
Wow.

635
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:12.599
So she did have for a young woman and she

636
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:14.960
was only there. Yeah, she did have, you know, a

637
00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:16.640
lot of things that were going on with her.

638
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:18.880
Yeah. It's really tough to go through life with all

639
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:20.319
all those challenges.

640
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:21.880
Yeah, and it does make it hard on the whole

641
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.759
family when mom, you know, isn't feeling well. Right, we'll

642
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:35.400
be back after a break. I did not have an

643
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:37.960
avalanche bar at the beginning, but I had one during

644
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.480
her break. And they're really good, So really make them.

645
00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:41.960
If you make them, let me know what you think.

646
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:43.960
Yeah, like you said, they're so easy too.

647
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.960
What do you think of the blag so far?

648
00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:50.880
It's a good question. I mean, they seem like Jennifer

649
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.279
seemed obviously having like a lot of the health issues

650
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:57.319
she had and the move to Colorado and everything and

651
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:59.200
not selling their house. It seems like there was some

652
00:31:59.240 --> 00:32:02.920
stress in their life together as a family. But other

653
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:04.440
than that, I guess I don't really feel like I

654
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:06.720
have a full picture yet of kind of the family

655
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.319
dynamics and you know, how they work toward each other.

656
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:12.759
I think they were happy, and I think Jennifer she

657
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:16.240
had a lot of health issues, but she was generally

658
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:19.319
a happy person okay, and very loved. Everyone thought she

659
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:20.559
was great.

660
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:23.880
And people saw them as a happy, stable family unit

661
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:24.599
for sure.

662
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:28.599
Mike strikes me as a very intelligent man. Yeah, and

663
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.599
the kind of the kind of guy that thinks he

664
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.000
knows better than everyone. Like he thinks he's the smartest

665
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.440
guy in the room.

666
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:37.400
You're looking You're looking at me a little funny when

667
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:38.279
you always.

668
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:41.200
You're the one who started smirking. I mean you're the

669
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:43.519
only guy in the room. So, yes, you are definitely

670
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:44.640
the smartest guy in the room.

671
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:45.880
Okay, fair enough.

672
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:49.240
Why did you get that smirky smirk?

673
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:51.559
I don't know. I just feel like that's what people

674
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:52.640
think of me sometimes.

675
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:56.240
Oh, you have an elevated I mean you are very smart.

676
00:32:56.839 --> 00:32:59.759
Yeah. I don't know. I don't mean that I'm like

677
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:02.960
arrogant about it. I just feel like sometimes maybe people

678
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:03.480
think that.

679
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.279
Yeah, everyone's always talking about how smart is.

680
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:15.079
All right, let's move on. After Mike reported Jennifer and

681
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:17.519
Abby missing, the police were not sure what kind of

682
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.680
situation they were dealing with. Was it a robbery gone wrong?

683
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:24.200
Had Jennifer and Abby been kidnapped, had they been killed,

684
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:27.359
Had they been sexually assaulted, or had they left on

685
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.359
their own free will. Could Jennifer have attacked Abby and

686
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.960
escaped the scene of the crime and disposed of her body.

687
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:36.559
Could Jennifer have attacked her assailant and fled with Abby.

688
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:40.920
Jennifer and Abby were considered low risk victims. They lived

689
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.200
in a safe neighborhood and didn't have dangerous lifestyles. Investigators

690
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:47.920
immediately knew there was a ninety nine percent chance that

691
00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:50.759
Mike had killed them. He was put into the back

692
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:54.160
of an ambulance. He seemed to be in shock. Although

693
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:57.480
not confirmed, they knew the blood most likely belonged to Jennifer,

694
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:00.960
and she was likely dead or had suffered life threatening injuries.

695
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:04.039
Because of the amount of blood, it would be highly

696
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.160
unusual for anyone other than an intimate partner to move

697
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.360
bodies from the crime scene. It would slow their escape

698
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:13.880
and increase the likelihood of being caught. It's an interesting observation.

699
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:16.760
I hadn't really considered that before, but it makes sense.

700
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:19.239
Yeah, why would anyone take the body with them?

701
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:23.639
Right after the search warrant was secured, detectives began combing

702
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:28.000
through the house. Clear droplets, possibly water or cleaning fluid

703
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:32.119
were found by the front door. Droplets of blood very small,

704
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.440
pinpoint sized, were found on the exterior and interior of

705
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:40.679
Jennifer's forward Windstar van. There were trace amounts of blood

706
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:43.559
found on the steering wheel, the brake pedal, the driver

707
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:46.719
side door handle, and a few droplets on the driver's

708
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:49.960
side door, but that was it. If a body had

709
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.119
been placed in the van, surely there would have been

710
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.159
more blood unless they'd been tightly wrapped in a tarp

711
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:58.400
or a rug. When luminol was used in the van,

712
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:00.880
trace amounts of blood were found on the back of

713
00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:04.239
the driver's side seat and the inside of the passenger

714
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:06.760
side door, as well as on the left side of

715
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:10.159
the steering wheel and the passenger side arm rest. No

716
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:12.639
blood was found in the mudroom or the garage.

717
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.840
Actually, that's a lie. There was a tiny spot on

718
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:18.039
one of the garage steps, okay, but when we're tired,

719
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:21.480
they're tiny, tiny, like just pin pricks. Some of them

720
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.840
were like tiny droplets, But it wasn't as much blood

721
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:27.440
as you would expect to see.

722
00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.679
Right, the van's seats were laid down flat, as if

723
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:34.639
someone had hauled something recently. When luminol was used in

724
00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:37.239
the house. It did not indicate that any blood was

725
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.639
trailed throughout the house. All the sinks and drains were

726
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:43.920
taken apart, no blood was found. All of the dirty

727
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:46.880
clothes and the hamper were taken out and checked. Not

728
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:48.440
a speck of blood was found.

729
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:51.079
Can blood not be washed out of a drain?

730
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:53.400
I'm sure it can be washed out of a drain,

731
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:56.519
But you know, traces of blood get everywhere, and I

732
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.440
think it's hard to completely eliminate it. Plus, maybe like

733
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:01.440
the you know, trains have a trap at the bottom

734
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:03.519
of them, and okay, I don't know if maybe because

735
00:36:03.559 --> 00:36:06.440
blood is probably heavier than water, maybe some of it settles.

736
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:08.000
Yeah, maybe a stain and it.

737
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:09.960
Makes it hard to get that out of there.

738
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.039
And maybe it would stain at PVC pipe.

739
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:15.320
Good. Yeah, there was a stain on the carpet in

740
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:16.920
Mike's office under his desk.

741
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:23.840
It wasn't blood. Okay, what might you find under a man's.

742
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:28.280
Crumb cookie crumbs, That's what you would likely find under

743
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:28.679
my desk.

744
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.760
This is gross, but it was semen, Okay.

745
00:36:31.639 --> 00:36:34.559
Sniffer dogs were brought in and alerted in the garage

746
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:38.079
and the front porch. Another dog headed to the Colorado

747
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:41.519
River about a quarter mile away. The blood stain on

748
00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:45.599
the bed was peculiar. Mesa County Sheriff's Office Sergeant Wayne

749
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.239
Whaler said, quote, the stain is generally in a circular

750
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:52.920
pattern and unusual in that coagulated blood was along the

751
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:56.880
perimeter or border of the circular pattern, roughly between a

752
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:00.760
one o'clock and seven o'clock position. The top two thirds

753
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:05.480
of the stains are more watery than expected. It appeared

754
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.360
that water or another clear liquid had been added to

755
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:11.880
the pool of blood. Absent was an impression of where

756
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:15.079
the victim could have laid. There was a significant amount

757
00:37:15.079 --> 00:37:17.400
of blood on the bed and the floor, but no

758
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:20.559
blood spatter or cast off, indicating that the victim did

759
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:24.199
not fight back and likely hadn't been shot, stabbed, or

760
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:25.639
hit with blunt force.

761
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.840
I mean, it's pretty rare to have a crime scene

762
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:29.039
where there's no blood.

763
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:33.079
Spatter at all, Right, that is very strange, And just

764
00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:35.079
the fact there was so much blood on the bed

765
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.199
and the floor but there weren't stains throughout the house

766
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:42.920
just is very strange. Yeah, the blood stain was on

767
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:46.199
the right side of the bed, Jennifer's side. The left

768
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.039
side looked as if no one had slept there. There

769
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.559
was only one pillow on the bed. Where had the

770
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:55.199
other two pillows gone? Mike said that Jennifer used two

771
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:59.679
pillows and he only used one. Three unloaded guns were

772
00:37:59.679 --> 00:38:03.079
located in the closet of the primary bedroom, a shotgun,

773
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:06.000
a twenty two rifle, and a twenty two handgun, but

774
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.159
there were no bullets in the house. These guns had

775
00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:13.000
belonged to Mike's father. Later investigators dug up an old

776
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:15.880
home insurance policy in which Mike had listed a nine

777
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.119
millimeter gun on his policy in addition to the other

778
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.559
three guns, so the nine millimeter gun was not found.

779
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:27.760
Correct Mike had left seven messages on the answering machine,

780
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:29.719
each with increasing concern.

781
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:35.119
Good morning, gorgeous theaters calling to see how you're doing. Hey,

782
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:36.559
where are you?

783
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:39.719
Let's just calling to see how you're doing. Man, where

784
00:38:39.719 --> 00:38:40.119
are you?

785
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:45.360
Guys? You did that make your skin crawl a little bit?

786
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.920
Yeah? Well, I mean it probably wouldn't if I didn't

787
00:38:48.960 --> 00:38:51.519
know that, you know, something had happened to his wife

788
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.920
and daughter, But it did sound a little weird, like, hey.

789
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:59.360
Where are the enthusiastic? Yeah, I couldn't find a clip

790
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.440
of the entire higher messages, so I'm just going to

791
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:03.840
have you read them really quick. I think this is

792
00:39:03.880 --> 00:39:04.679
really interesting.

793
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:08.119
So the other messages were, Hello, my beautiful bride, hope

794
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.480
you're having fun. I hope you're out and about doing

795
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:14.559
all kinds of cool, nifty things. And then later, Hey,

796
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.159
where are you guys? I hope everything's going okay? I

797
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:20.880
love you, I miss you, And the last message, man,

798
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:23.079
where are you guys? It's three twenty two and I

799
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:25.519
haven't talked to you all day. I love you, sweetie.

800
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:28.639
I hope everything is going well for you. So it

801
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:32.639
wasn't unusual for him to call several times during the day,

802
00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:35.199
as we talked about earlier, right, but the fact that

803
00:39:35.239 --> 00:39:39.440
he's just the messages he's leaving are like they sound

804
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:41.960
really phony to me, like, Hey, what are you guys doing?

805
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:44.719
Where are you guys? And I can't hear his tone

806
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:46.880
on all of them, but it does sound a little

807
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:47.880
phony to me.

808
00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:51.360
We don't know what their relationship is like, but it

809
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.119
does seem a little controlling if he calls her, you know,

810
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:56.320
even three times a day is a lot to talk

811
00:39:56.360 --> 00:39:58.760
to your spouse. I think, yeah, unless there's something going on,

812
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:03.840
If like a child's sick or you know, there's extenuating circumstances.

813
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:07.639
But in general, I think calling your spouse yeah today. Well,

814
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:10.119
you know this was back in the year two thousand

815
00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:12.719
and one, so you weren't texting as much now I

816
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:15.280
think we would we tee like when you're traveling, we

817
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:18.639
text quite a bit, but we don't actually gosh you ever,

818
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:19.480
even I don't.

819
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:20.400
Think, not very much.

820
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:21.639
I must never call each other.

821
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.079
Yeah, so we're all constantly in touch via text. But yeah,

822
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:28.599
Amateech was just ten minutes from his house, and if

823
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.000
he was so worried, wouldn't he have just driven home

824
00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:32.039
and checked on Jennifer.

825
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.679
Which makes sense he was having a very busy day.

826
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.639
But still, if you were worried that your wife and

827
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:41.159
child were missing, like I would, I would think you

828
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:44.119
would go home, find a way to go home other

829
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:46.360
than the primary bedroom. There were no signs of a

830
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.400
struggle in the house. The scene left seasoned investigators uneasy.

831
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:54.000
They thought the house felt staged. There were valuable items

832
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:57.320
in the house that weren't taken. Even cash was left untouched.

833
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.159
No other drawers or closets had been opened or rifled through.

834
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:04.119
I would like to go at ransacking a house.

835
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:05.400
Yeah.

836
00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:09.760
Yeah. One of the officers said that when a criminal

837
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.679
comes into your house that it looks like a tornado

838
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.239
went through it. There might be holes in the walls,

839
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:18.320
there's like serious damage. Your furniture is going to be damaged.

840
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:21.599
Things are going to be turned completely over, and not

841
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:24.639
just one random table, but you know, it's just your

842
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:26.920
whole house is going to look like a mess. There's

843
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:28.840
going to be a trail, you know, there would have

844
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:31.639
been a trail to Jennifer of you know, things that.

845
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:35.239
Were really see I would have thought almost the opposite,

846
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:38.239
because you always hear about people staging a scene or

847
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.639
we you know, we talk about it a lot, and

848
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:42.960
you always hear like, oh, furniture is overturned. And I

849
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:46.480
always think, well, a burglar isn't going to overturn furniture, right,

850
00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:48.599
They're coming in to steal something, so they're going to

851
00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:51.320
go after whatever it is that they're stealing. But it

852
00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:54.199
seems like people always think that the house is just

853
00:41:54.280 --> 00:41:57.599
sort of like, I don't know that stuff is strewn everywhere,

854
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:59.920
but you're kind of saying that is that is the case.

855
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.519
That's what this officer said. And a drawer isn't going

856
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:05.960
to be just opened. It's going to be pulled, you know,

857
00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:08.079
pulled out, and the contents are just you know, going

858
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:09.159
to go flying, right.

859
00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:12.719
I guess I'm curious now to see some actual crime

860
00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:15.519
scenes that were just burglary reads and see what it

861
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:20.199
actually looks like when a burglar comes in left it research.

862
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:21.519
On that you've never had that happen to.

863
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:23.800
Us, Well, I did once when I was younger. I

864
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:28.239
had an apartment broken into and robbed. And I mean

865
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:30.800
there wasn't it wasn't stuff strewn all over, like the

866
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:33.119
door was broken open. That was how I knew that

867
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:37.159
somebody had had gotten in. But then what did they

868
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:40.679
take they took? I had a bike, a guitar, some

869
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:44.920
film equipment and stuff. So it just took a few things.

870
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:46.599
And honestly, it took me a while to look around

871
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:50.039
the house and realize that what was missing, because things

872
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:51.280
weren't all messed up either.

873
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.559
It probably depends on the criminal that's at your house.

874
00:42:56.079 --> 00:43:00.480
Probably true. Jennifer's retainers that she wore nightly were missing,

875
00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:03.199
suggesting that she had been attacked while she was still

876
00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:07.079
in bed. Her bank account and credit cards remained untouched

877
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:11.559
when Mike's work and home computers were searched. Eighteen hundred

878
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:15.719
pornographic images were found. An email to Jennifer was in

879
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.519
Mike's draft folder, but a copy printed on November thirteenth,

880
00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:22.360
two thousand and one, at three point fifty eight pm,

881
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:25.639
was found on the floor of the primary bedroom among

882
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:27.800
the items that spilled from Jennifer's purse.

883
00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:32.719
The timing here is telling November thirteenth at three point

884
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:37.719
fifty eight pm. Mike prints this email off at work

885
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:40.800
right before he comes home, and then it was found

886
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:43.880
at the crime scene, folded up by Jennifer's purse.

887
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:49.039
Okay, The email read quote Jennifer, I love you. I'm

888
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:51.599
sorry we have ruined this day and opportunity to spend

889
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:55.159
our lunchtime together. I don't know what went wrong. My

890
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:57.599
intent was to spend a wonderful time with you and

891
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:02.000
coincidentally get some Christmas shopping done. That obviously went astray.

892
00:44:02.519 --> 00:44:04.400
The Lord tells me not to let the sun go

893
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.119
down on my anger, and so I won't. You are

894
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:10.000
the light of my life. I ask for your forgiveness

895
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:11.800
for any wrongs I have done to you, and I

896
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:15.280
also forgive the wrongs I have perceived against me. I

897
00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:17.840
do not want us to waste a weekend being angry

898
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:20.400
with one another. I would love to take some time

899
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:23.400
today to talk through these problems we are having. I

900
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:25.679
will send this as an email, but also I will

901
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:28.280
bring it home to you. After Paul says to not

902
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:30.599
let the sun go down on our anger, he says,

903
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:33.320
do not give the devil a foothold. I am sorry.

904
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.719
I have given the devil a foothold. I will always

905
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:36.079
love you.

906
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:40.760
So they had had a fight I think on Friday

907
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:44.599
and November thirteenth, the day that Abby and Jennifer disappeared

908
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:49.079
as a Tuesday. So this to me implies that he's

909
00:44:49.159 --> 00:44:51.840
given her the email on Friday when he got home

910
00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:54.800
from work. Okay, not on the Tuesday, because he's saying.

911
00:44:55.639 --> 00:44:57.360
We're going to enjoy the weekend or they're want to

912
00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:01.239
get past it for the weekend, okay, to investigators and

913
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:03.679
told them that he'd printed the email out on Friday,

914
00:45:03.800 --> 00:45:07.559
so to support the story that you just told to

915
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.199
basically make it sound like they were going into the

916
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:13.519
weekend and he wanted to resolve this issue. He didn't

917
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:15.480
remember what the fight was about, but it was no

918
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:19.159
big deal, he said. Police had possession of the blag

919
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:22.719
house until early December. Every square into the house had

920
00:45:22.760 --> 00:45:26.400
been searched for evidence, including crawl spaces, rain gutters, and

921
00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:30.079
the roof. Police removed over one hundred and fifty pieces

922
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.760
of evidence. The house was in rough shape when they

923
00:45:32.760 --> 00:45:36.440
turned it back over to Mike. Sections of carpet, drywall,

924
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.639
and plumbing pipes were cut out. Every surface of the

925
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:43.559
house was covered in fingerprint, dust and luminol, and investigators

926
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:46.079
did not repair any of the damage they left behind.

927
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.000
The house was not liveable. The police did not share

928
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:53.159
their findings with Mike. He decided to pack up his

929
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:58.119
family's belongings and move to a townhouse downtown. Mike's sister Claire,

930
00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:02.239
his mother Betsy, and Jennifer's helped him pack. Mike was

931
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.800
sure to tell people his new home had three bedrooms

932
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:08.000
for when Jennifer and Abby returned home. He kept the

933
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:10.880
same phone number two so that Jennifer could call him.

934
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:14.239
Mike asked friends if they wanted to see the crime scene,

935
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.840
which they found very strange. That is very strange.

936
00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:20.920
It is very strange. Do you think it's odd that

937
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:21.440
he moved?

938
00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:26.000
Not really, no, I mean I think one the house

939
00:46:26.119 --> 00:46:28.280
is like a crime scene and your wife's blood was

940
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:30.880
all over, I would not want it. I'd feel weird

941
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.599
staying there. But also because of the fact that the

942
00:46:33.639 --> 00:46:36.239
police had really done a number on it. It sounds

943
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:38.639
like with their search. So yeah, it doesn't seem surprising

944
00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:38.880
to me.

945
00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:42.400
I think if my husband and child were missing, I

946
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:44.679
would not want to move from the house that they

947
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.920
went missing from until you know, I knew for sure

948
00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:52.280
they weren't coming back. When crime scene investigators were combing

949
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.800
through his house, Mike went to the police station with

950
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:59.239
his pastor for an interview. They were there for seven hours.

951
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.599
I haven't got a clue who would have any malice

952
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:07.679
in their heart at all, or anyone in our family.

953
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:11.559
Hatty's a beautiful little girl, a wonderful.

954
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:14.519
Energetic little girl. I didn't see any blood in.

955
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:17.400
Her room when I was up there, so that there's

956
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:21.800
some scary thoughts going in my mind about what could

957
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.519
be happening or could have happened to her. There are

958
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:26.800
sick people in this world.

959
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:31.400
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a lot of clips from Mike's interrogation.

960
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:35.039
When asked to describe his wife, Mike said, quote, she's

961
00:47:35.079 --> 00:47:39.480
the most energetic enthusiastic, wonderful woman you could ever want

962
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:43.079
to meet. She's a good Christian, warm loving woman. She's

963
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:46.280
about five foot four, blonde hair and she's letting it

964
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:48.760
grow out. It was sure, but now it's probably just

965
00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:52.360
a bit over shoulder length. She's got brown eyes, and

966
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:56.039
she's just as cute as can be. I've never seen

967
00:47:56.079 --> 00:47:59.280
her not make friends with people. Everybody that she talks

968
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:01.719
to is instant a friend of hers. She could talk

969
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:04.559
to anybody. She could talk to a wall and she'd

970
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.239
have the wall laughing in ten minutes after she started

971
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:11.159
talking to it. End quote. When asked about his marriage,

972
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:15.159
he said, quote very strong. We've got a wonderful marriage.

973
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:18.360
He said. God came first for himself and Jennifer, then

974
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:22.039
their marriage, and then Abby. Their tenth wedding anniversary was

975
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:25.639
just days away. Jennifer and Mike had hired a babysitter

976
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:29.199
and made reservations to go out to celebrate. Mike knew

977
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:31.719
how much Jennifer wade and knew what size she wore.

978
00:48:32.199 --> 00:48:35.000
He said he was proud of her for recently losing

979
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:38.960
some weight. Friend said that he was controlling and Jennifer

980
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.800
had to get as okay before changing her hair or

981
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:45.280
buying new clothing, but other friends said that they had

982
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:49.000
a perfect relationship. I know every marriage is different, and

983
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:51.599
some women don't mind if their husband buys them clothes

984
00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:55.159
or whatever. But you have no idea of what size

985
00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:58.679
I wear or you know, I really don't. You really don't,

986
00:48:58.760 --> 00:48:59.920
and you don't really care to.

987
00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:01.280
No, not really.

988
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:04.920
Mike thought that whatever had happened to Jennifer and Abbey

989
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:08.239
happened between six and six thirty am, after he'd left

990
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:11.320
for work, but before they were supposed to get up

991
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:15.039
to start their day. Sergeant Wayne Wiler questioned why Mike

992
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:18.559
didn't mention his daughter during the initial nine one one call.

993
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.360
He said, it concerns me, Mike a little bit. Why

994
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.440
you come home and you're very concerned about your wife.

995
00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:27.960
Why wouldn't your daughter enter into your mind?

996
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:30.639
Because my first concern was for my spouse.

997
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:34.800
Okay, give me the reasoning here. I mean, everybody thinks differently,

998
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.079
so tell me why that is with you.

999
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.320
I love I love my daughter and I love my

1000
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:42.599
wife both. But my wife is the light of my

1001
00:49:42.679 --> 00:49:46.320
life here on earth. That's the way it is with me.

1002
00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:49.320
And when I saw that blood initially, that's where the

1003
00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:51.559
fear was pulling me because I saw stuff that I

1004
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:52.920
wasn't expecting to see there.

1005
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:55.199
What do you think of that?

1006
00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:58.599
I think it's absolutely unthinkable that you would not go

1007
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:02.280
check your daughter's room immediately be wondering what happened to

1008
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:02.679
your daughter.

1009
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:06.800
You have my approval and encouragement to check on our kids,

1010
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.000
even our cats, before you check on me. Mike was

1011
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:13.960
given a light detector test he passed. As a pilot

1012
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:17.519
in the Navy, Mike had received training in case of capture,

1013
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:21.079
and that training proved to be invaluable when he needed

1014
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:21.519
it most.

1015
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:24.119
I want to take training on how to fake a

1016
00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:25.239
lie detector test.

1017
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:29.599
Well, someday, maybe it is a birthday gift. I'm going

1018
00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:30.320
to give you a live.

1019
00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:32.000
Cat.

1020
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.559
Wait, you say it, well, you say it all the

1021
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:34.920
time that you want to take one and see if

1022
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:37.280
you could beat it. I'm pretty sure you couldn't.

1023
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:38.440
I'm pretty sure I couldn't.

1024
00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:41.360
You think you're a pretty emotional guy. You try to

1025
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:45.559
be stoic, but you know Jennifer's mother, Marilyn, and stepfather

1026
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:49.480
rushed to Colorado after Jennifer and Abbey's disappearance, as did

1027
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:53.159
Mike's sister and mother, and they all supported Mike one

1028
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:57.880
hundred percent. On November sixteenth, Mike talked to reporters outside

1029
00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:00.599
of his house, with Jennifer's mother, Marilyn Way by his

1030
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:04.239
side holding his hand. Quote, anyone who knows anything about

1031
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.800
my wife and daughter, I pray that you'll come forward.

1032
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:09.559
That's all we want. I just want them to come home.

1033
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:12.559
Just allow them to come home. That's all I ask.

1034
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.880
Please allow them to come home. Marilyn added, quote, if

1035
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:19.360
you know how to pray to the heavenly Father, pray

1036
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:22.519
to him, ask him to bring these precious people home.

1037
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:26.199
The same day, the police said that they now believed

1038
00:51:26.199 --> 00:51:28.679
at least one of the Blags was likely dead because

1039
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.639
of the amount of blood found of the crime scene

1040
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:33.599
and the length of time that had passed without a

1041
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:37.559
visit to the hospital. On November twentieth, Mike appeared on

1042
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:41.559
Good Morning America. He made hundreds of pins with lavender

1043
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:45.000
ribbons that said Hope, Jennifer and Abbey. He passed them

1044
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:47.679
out to friends and neighbors and wore the pin for

1045
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:52.440
months whenever he left the house. Six detectives from the

1046
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:55.880
Grand Junction Police Department and sixteen officers from the Mesa

1047
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:59.239
County's Sheriff's apartment were assigned to the case full time.

1048
00:51:59.679 --> 00:52:03.679
They interviewed all one hundred eighty employees of the Amatech

1049
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:07.920
Dixon Company, members of the Monument Baptist Church, and the

1050
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.960
New Hope Fellowship Church. That's a lot of people that

1051
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:14.920
it really is. The search continued throughout the community and

1052
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.119
the nearby Colorado River. Horse mounted searches were conducted, as

1053
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:22.519
well as searches by scent dogs. Mike wanted to join

1054
00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:25.079
the search effort, but the police would not allow him

1055
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:28.280
to participate. He took a leave of absence from his

1056
00:52:28.360 --> 00:52:31.960
job at AMTEK until January to focus on search efforts.

1057
00:52:32.679 --> 00:52:36.400
On November sixteenth, a woman named Luela Cross came forward.

1058
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:40.920
She was the receptionist at Colorado Rural Legal Services, which

1059
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:45.000
provides free legal services to seniors, low income individuals, and

1060
00:52:45.079 --> 00:52:49.480
victims of domestic violence. Luella said a woman matching Jennifer's

1061
00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:52.159
description with a little girl in tow had visited her

1062
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:56.119
office two weeks earlier. The woman said that she'd recently

1063
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:58.800
moved from South Carolina and was a victim of domestic

1064
00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:02.239
abuse and needed help. She was nervous and scared for

1065
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:05.119
her husband to find out that she'd been there. Luela

1066
00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:07.400
had to turn the woman away because the office wasn't

1067
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.159
taking on any new cases at the time, so she

1068
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:12.800
didn't even get her name. But she thought the little

1069
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:17.079
girl looked like Abby and remembered that she had worn overalls.

1070
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:21.239
Several people confirmed that Abby often wore overalls, but so

1071
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:24.000
do a lot of six year old ails. Luela offered

1072
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.119
to help the woman get a restraining order, but she

1073
00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:29.039
left the office before she could get any of her information.

1074
00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:33.079
On November twenty fourth, police got another strange lead to

1075
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:36.559
form a woman named Caitlin Bricker. She said that she

1076
00:53:36.559 --> 00:53:39.119
had received a phone call at her home at twelve

1077
00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:42.559
fifteen pm on November thirteenth. When she answered the phone,

1078
00:53:42.639 --> 00:53:46.119
her caller ID said anonymous. She couldn't be sure, but

1079
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:48.199
she thought that the voice belonged to a young girl

1080
00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:51.320
who was crying. The girl said I'm Abby Black and

1081
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:54.320
I need your help. She asked her where she was

1082
00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:58.199
and she said Mexico, but she didn't know where Mexico was.

1083
00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:01.320
She said, I need my mom. Then she said she

1084
00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:04.119
had to go. Hmmm, I'm pretty sure that was fake.

1085
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:05.440
Sounds pretty fake.

1086
00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:09.320
Yeah. On December seventh, another woman came in with an

1087
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:13.239
anonymous tip, but police later identified her as twenty seven

1088
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:16.559
year old Julie House. She had seen Mike on television

1089
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:19.760
pleading for help finding his wife and daughter. Julie worked

1090
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:23.280
as an escort at Baby Doll's Adult Entertainment and she

1091
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:28.719
had seen Mike there several times. He identified himself as Steve.

1092
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:32.400
Between December two thousand and April two thousand and one,

1093
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:35.440
Julie said Steve had come in to see her every

1094
00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:38.679
two to three weeks. During his lunch hour, he paid

1095
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:42.880
sixty dollars for a topless massage with a happy ending. Allegedly,

1096
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:46.559
he'd requested other services that Julie or her girls had

1097
00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:50.920
refused to do. Investigators were able to discern that Jennifer

1098
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:54.719
had filled her band with gas on November ninth, verified

1099
00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:57.480
by a credit card statement, The van had been driven

1100
00:54:57.519 --> 00:55:00.480
one hundred and twenty five miles between November ninth and

1101
00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:05.840
November thirteenth, the day Jennifer went missing. Investigators pinpointed Jennifer's

1102
00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:09.519
whereabouts between the ninth and the thirteenth, and they estimated

1103
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:12.840
that she'd driven only thirty four miles. Ninety one miles

1104
00:55:12.840 --> 00:55:16.159
were unaccounted for. Thought that was really good police work. Yeah,

1105
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.559
So the question is who drove the van for those

1106
00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:20.800
ninety one miles.

1107
00:55:21.079 --> 00:55:25.000
So that ninety one miles includes the day of November thirteenth,

1108
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:28.800
So your implication there is that somebody maybe drove the

1109
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:32.719
van somewhere to get rid of a body somewhere potentially

1110
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:33.400
or bodies.

1111
00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:36.760
I'm not saying that the van, by the way, had

1112
00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:40.039
been a Valentine scaff from Mike. The previous year, Mike

1113
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:43.039
gave Jennifer a scavenger hunt and at the end was

1114
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:45.719
a new maroon Ford Windstar minivan.

1115
00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:46.760
That's pretty nice.

1116
00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:51.119
That was nice. Finally, on December tenth, some forensic tests

1117
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:54.519
came back. The blood in the primary bedroom was confirmed

1118
00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:57.800
to be Jennifer's. Mike Seaman was found on the comforter.

1119
00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:01.559
None of Abby's blood was found at the scene. Mike's

1120
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:05.280
fingerprints were found on Jennifer's jewelry box, and there were

1121
00:56:05.760 --> 00:56:08.519
no Errand fingerprints on the jewelry box.

1122
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:09.599
Interesting.

1123
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:13.000
I think we are going to stop there for today.

1124
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:14.639
Oh, I need to know what happened.

1125
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:16.679
What do you think happened?

1126
00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:17.760
I don't know.

1127
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:19.639
I think where do you think Gabby and Jennifer are?

1128
00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:22.000
I have no idea. That's why. That's why I don't

1129
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:24.519
want to stop, because I'm really curious as to where

1130
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:25.000
they might be.

1131
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:28.039
I hate to leave you on a cliffhanger, but a

1132
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:30.599
lot of good shows are left on a cliffhanger all

1133
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:31.840
the time, like Happy Days.

1134
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:34.119
Oh, I will be sure to come back for part two.

1135
00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:42.719
Then you don't have a choice. I have been obsessed

1136
00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:46.599
with puzzles lately. Have not physical puzzles, but I saw

1137
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:50.639
puzzles jig saw puzzles, but the wordle and like the

1138
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:53.280
New York Times puzzles I love. I don't like a

1139
00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:55.599
big crossword because I'm not very good at crosswords, but

1140
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:59.840
like the mini crossword. The connections is my favorite strands.

1141
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:01.159
You do those games sometimes too.

1142
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:02.880
Sometimes It's been a while since I've done them.

1143
00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:06.840
But yeah, there's also the Washington Post games are really good.

1144
00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:09.079
There's one I really like that's keyword, and they have

1145
00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:11.760
I'm kind of a Newsy person, so there's this news quiz.

1146
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:15.679
So I've been really enjoying the puzzles and usually at

1147
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:18.320
twelve am they come out for the next day. If

1148
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:19.400
I'm still up, sometimes they.

1149
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:21.239
Do them or they do the jump right on it.

1150
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:25.400
I just I really enjoy them, especially the New York

1151
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:29.280
Times Connections that to me, that one is the most challenging.

1152
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:31.079
When it first came out, which I don't know, it

1153
00:57:31.119 --> 00:57:32.840
was like a year a little over a year ago

1154
00:57:33.079 --> 00:57:36.039
or a year and a half ago maybe, But you did

1155
00:57:36.039 --> 00:57:36.920
them all the time too.

1156
00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:39.760
I did Wordle a lot, and then Connections I did

1157
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:42.760
a few times. But yeah, that I kind of dropped off.

1158
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:44.760
But you love a jigsaw puzzle.

1159
00:57:45.360 --> 00:57:46.559
I like a jigsaw puzzle.

1160
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:49.079
You wouldn't say you love a jigsaw puzzle.

1161
00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:51.199
Sure, I love a jigsaw puzzle.

1162
00:57:51.239 --> 00:57:54.119
So I saw something on the news. I didn't realize

1163
00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:59.800
that there is a World jigsaw puzzle competition. Wow, what

1164
00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:03.320
do you think the winning time was for a five

1165
00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:04.920
hundred piece puzzle?

1166
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:06.480
Oh gosh, I don't know.

1167
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.880
For me, everyone is given the same five hundred piece puzzle,

1168
00:58:09.920 --> 00:58:12.480
and it's an international competition.

1169
00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:15.719
And I'm assuming it's a challenging puzzle to not like

1170
00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:17.800
just a simple They it.

1171
00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:19.960
Was called a challenging puzzle, but not like one of

1172
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:23.159
those puzzles where it's like, you know, like all hues

1173
00:58:23.199 --> 00:58:26.159
of blue or something like that, or an edgeless puzzle

1174
00:58:26.679 --> 00:58:29.360
of popcorn, which I got you let one year for Christmas. E. Yeah,

1175
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:30.920
you absolutely hated it.

1176
00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:32.639
For a five hundred piece puzzle. I mean that would

1177
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:35.599
take me at least I don't know, probably five hours,

1178
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:36.480
probably more than that.

1179
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:41.960
The winning time was just over thirty seven minutes. Oh

1180
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:43.320
isn't that crazy?

1181
00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:44.320
That's crazy.

1182
00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:46.159
It just just blows my mind.

1183
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:48.440
See, that would take the enjoyment out of doing a

1184
00:58:48.519 --> 00:58:50.960
jigsaw puzzle for me, because to me, the enjoyment is

1185
00:58:51.000 --> 00:58:54.159
just sort of like losing yourself and not like you

1186
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:56.199
kind of shut your brain off while you're doing a

1187
00:58:56.239 --> 00:58:59.559
jigsaw puzzle and you're just sort of like focused on

1188
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:01.119
you know, the piece.

1189
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:03.920
Coast talent and a skill that you have. You know,

1190
00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:06.679
I think some people just you know, are better at

1191
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:08.760
spatial relations.

1192
00:59:08.960 --> 00:59:10.960
Yeah, I'm just saying I wouldn't want pretty good.

1193
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:14.079
At spatial relations because you do a puzzle pretty quickly

1194
00:59:14.719 --> 00:59:18.360
every year, for literally every year for Christmas, you get

1195
00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:21.719
a thousand piece puzzle, and you do it between Christmas,

1196
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:22.280
and it's.

1197
00:59:22.079 --> 00:59:24.239
A good nice way to spend some of your time off.

1198
00:59:24.599 --> 00:59:26.239
Yeah, you enjoy it, but you don't really want to

1199
00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:28.320
do puzzles all year round. You kind of just like

1200
00:59:28.360 --> 00:59:32.239
to do it when you're off right, and sometimes I'll

1201
00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:35.639
put like one piece in and the kids will help. Yeah,

1202
00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:37.119
I mean it did a nice way to spend time.

1203
00:59:37.119 --> 00:59:40.039
But yeah, that blew my mind. Thirty seven minutes or

1204
00:59:40.159 --> 00:59:42.760
pretty amazing five hundred piece puzzle. It was a puzzle

1205
00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:47.039
of tigers. Yeah, it's crazy. I didn't know it existed.

1206
00:59:47.079 --> 00:59:49.519
But it's just a room full of a lot of

1207
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:52.440
people and you've got like a table and then there's

1208
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:55.000
like this I don't know pad on the table and

1209
00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:56.719
then you just do your puzzle on top of it.

1210
00:59:56.760 --> 01:00:00.119
And I'm surprised it's not on like, YESPN eight or

1211
01:00:00.159 --> 01:00:01.320
whatever they o show.

1212
01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:04.360
Is there an ESPN A you just did?

1213
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:06.480
Just be the No, that's a that's a reference to

1214
01:00:06.519 --> 01:00:10.000
the movie Dodgeball. Dodge Ball was on ESPN A yo chow.

1215
01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:13.719
Oh that's really funny. But yeah, I just I thought

1216
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:17.800
that was really interesting. Yeah, before we go, do you

1217
01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:19.760
want to talk about Little Miss Innocent?

1218
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:24.599
Oh? Yeah, that was really uh interesting documentary on Hulu

1219
01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:28.440
and it's about the case of the murder of Mary

1220
01:00:28.519 --> 01:00:32.920
Yoder and the person convicted of it was Caitlin Conley.

1221
01:00:33.679 --> 01:00:35.880
Yeah, and you wrote a two part case back in

1222
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:39.679
April that you did. It was a great, very interesting case.

1223
01:00:39.800 --> 01:00:42.880
Yeah, super interesting case, and the documentary was really well done.

1224
01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:47.079
They had interviews with Caitlin Conley. Now, if you haven't

1225
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:48.719
listened to the episode yet, I don't want to give

1226
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:51.920
any spoilers, so go back and listen. But Caitlyn Conley

1227
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:57.000
was convicted of manslaughter in the case of Mary Yoder's death,

1228
01:00:57.039 --> 01:00:58.559
and she is currently in prison.

1229
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:02.400
And you had some when you watch the documentary. We

1230
01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:05.639
posted them on social media on our Instagram and Facebook, and.

1231
01:01:06.119 --> 01:01:08.440
I did because it's one of those cases that a

1232
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:11.400
lot of people do think that Caitlin is innocent, Like

1233
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:14.920
she has a lot of supporters, including some of Mary's

1234
01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:18.480
family members, like a couple of her sisters are, you know,

1235
01:01:18.519 --> 01:01:22.320
in Caitlin's court, And there's a website about free Kaitlin

1236
01:01:22.400 --> 01:01:22.840
Colmly and.

1237
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:24.320
Stuff like signs around their town.

1238
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:28.239
Yeah, and it's one of these cases that I feel

1239
01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:30.360
pretty much one hundred percent that she is guilty.

1240
01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:33.440
We had received a couple of comments on social media

1241
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:36.039
roasting us a little bit, like I can't believe you

1242
01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:38.800
thought she is guilt. She thinks she's guilty.

1243
01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:41.800
Yeah, and that's fair. I mean, everybody has an opinion

1244
01:01:41.920 --> 01:01:45.519
about things like this. I really believe she is guilty.

1245
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:48.639
The documentary was, It was very well done. Definitely recommend

1246
01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:51.480
watching it. It was a three part documentary, but they

1247
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:54.039
did leave out a lot of things that I thought

1248
01:01:54.079 --> 01:01:57.280
were kind of important pieces of evidence, and so I

1249
01:01:57.320 --> 01:02:01.159
did post we posted on our Instagram kind of a

1250
01:02:01.199 --> 01:02:04.639
few of those items that you know, kind of helped

1251
01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:07.800
to supplement what was in the documentary. I think a

1252
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:10.000
couple of the things that weren't covered in the documentary

1253
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:12.800
that I thought were important. One is that when Mary

1254
01:02:12.840 --> 01:02:17.239
first got sick, Adam her Son, who basically Caitlyn tried

1255
01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:19.519
to point the finger at Adam and say said that

1256
01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:22.760
he probably killed his mom, but he was five hours

1257
01:02:22.760 --> 01:02:26.440
away from where Mary was. She didn't know that at

1258
01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:30.639
the time, and so he couldn't have done it, unless

1259
01:02:31.159 --> 01:02:33.800
potentially he could have, you know, put the poison inside

1260
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:36.119
of one of her supplements, and maybe you know, she

1261
01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:38.639
just happened to take it at the time when he

1262
01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:41.840
was five hours away, but that seems really unlikely. The

1263
01:02:41.840 --> 01:02:44.400
other thing that I thought was interesting is that the

1264
01:02:44.400 --> 01:02:48.639
poison that was purchased, it was purchased using two prepaid

1265
01:02:48.760 --> 01:02:52.800
credit cards that were bought at a local supermarket. The police,

1266
01:02:53.360 --> 01:02:56.440
they bluffed Caitlin because they knew she probably did it,

1267
01:02:56.880 --> 01:02:59.239
and they basically implied to her that they had surveillance

1268
01:02:59.280 --> 01:03:02.360
footage of her, which they didn't. But it got her

1269
01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:05.719
to admit that she did buy the two prepaid credit cards,

1270
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:08.960
but she couldn't explain how why they were used to

1271
01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:12.480
purchase the poison or why she had bought them, So

1272
01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:14.760
to me, that was really a damning piece of evidence

1273
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:16.599
that they didn't cover in the documentary.

1274
01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:19.920
There were times in the documentary like when it first started,

1275
01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:27.400
she came across initially as very measured and sweet and kind,

1276
01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:29.960
and we looked at each other like, oh, we're in

1277
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:32.000
trouble because people are going to be coming for us,

1278
01:03:32.360 --> 01:03:35.039
because we were pretty decisively like, yeah, no one else

1279
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:39.400
would have done this but Katie. But as the documentary progresses,

1280
01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:42.079
you see her masks slip a little bit and the

1281
01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:47.719
evidence compounds, and I think it becomes pretty obvious that

1282
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:48.400
she is gilt.

1283
01:03:48.519 --> 01:03:50.519
Yeah, there's a few moments when like they ask her,

1284
01:03:50.679 --> 01:03:53.639
did you kill Mary Yoda? And she just starts laughing,

1285
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:58.280
like very inappropriately and just very strange.

1286
01:03:58.480 --> 01:04:00.920
Yeah, And I was sad to hear that Adam probably

1287
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:02.079
isn't doing great.

1288
01:04:02.760 --> 01:04:05.119
Yeah, he was not interviewed in the documentary, but his

1289
01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:07.840
sisters were, and yeah, one of them said that he

1290
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:10.880
is not coping very well, that he really blames himself,

1291
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:13.119
you know, for a lot of what happened. So it's

1292
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:13.599
very said.

1293
01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:16.679
We try really hard to shake off negative comments that

1294
01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:18.559
we get. They happen all the time, they're going to happen.

1295
01:04:18.559 --> 01:04:21.800
We're putting something out for public consumption. But recently someone

1296
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:26.119
said something really really unkind about me and I posted

1297
01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:29.800
on Instagram, and as usual, I tried to make it

1298
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:32.920
into a joke and just say haha, you know, but

1299
01:04:33.079 --> 01:04:35.400
it really did hurt my feelings. And so many of

1300
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:38.079
you sent me messages either on social media or DMS

1301
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:40.920
or emails telling us that we're doing a good job,

1302
01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:42.199
and it meant so much to me.

1303
01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:45.519
Yeah, it's super nice, and we really really appreciate that.

1304
01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:48.519
I'm not a person who grew up with a lot

1305
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:52.079
of support, so your support means so much to us.

1306
01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:55.440
So thank you, thank you, and thank you all for listening.

1307
01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:57.719
If you would like to listen to both parts one

1308
01:04:57.800 --> 01:05:00.599
and two of this episode right now, join us on

1309
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:05.119
Patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill five dollars a month for

1310
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:08.440
early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode.

1311
01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:12.079
Please rate, review, follow on, subscribe, find us on social media,

1312
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:16.480
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1313
01:05:16.559 --> 01:05:18.960
Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill

1314
01:05:19.000 --> 01:06:01.480
your husband,