Oct. 14, 2024

Jennifer and Michael Blagg - Part 2

Jennifer and Michael Blagg - Part 2
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By all accounts, Jennifer and Michael Blagg were the perfect couple and the envy of their friends. Michael had a great job and was devoted to his wife and adorable 6-year-old daughter, Abby. But when Michael came home from work on November 13, 2001, to find his wife and daughter missing and bloodstains in the bedroom, his world was shattered. What unfolded in the coming months was a shocking story of a man leading two lives, one public and one private. Begging the question, can you ever really know anyone?

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Today's snacks: Canyon Poppers and Caramelized onion dip

WEBVTT

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Hi.

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I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing

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we've learned in over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary, Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, how

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are you?

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You know?

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I couldn't be better?

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That's amazing me, too good.

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Same Friday weekend is upon us. Beautiful fall day in Michigan. Yep,

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all my sports teams are doing well. Oh god, and

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I get to be here with you. Yeah, I get

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to hear the rest of this intriguing case.

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I am looking forward to telling you the rest.

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And I'm guessing you have a snack for me.

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I do have a snack for you. Hang on a second.

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This is kind of a funny story. Not funny, haha,

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but just like, oh my gosh, I'm a cottonheaded nini money.

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Okay.

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I was at Costco and I like to get Costco

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snacks because you know, Costco, even though every Costco is

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a little different that you know, people can just pick

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things up and it's always nice to hear because the

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bags are so big, like if you don't like them,

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then it's really wasteful. But because we're doing a Colorado case,

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I saw this the Boulder Canyon Chips, and I was like, oh,

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that's perfect because it said and I just picked up

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and looked at the back of the bag and it

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says their journey started in Bowler, Colorado in nineteen ninety four.

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And I was like, awesome, perfect. Yeah, And then I

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also made you because they're chips. And then I made

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you this French onion dep. Okay, homemade French onion dep

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that's supposed to be healthier because it has Greek yogurt

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in it. But then I just opened the bag and

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I realized it's cheeseballs.

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It's it looks like chips on the cover.

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Okay, thank you, that's what I thought, too kind of.

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I mean, now that I look at it and I

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know that it's cheeseballs, I was like, oh, it's a

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cheese ball.

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I would have thought this same thing.

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Wasn't going to try them until you know, we got here.

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So well, we got cheese balls dipped in French onion dep.

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Well, then I did bring a few fridos because you

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can't really dip a cheeseball. I could, but anyway, but

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they are Canyon Poppers aged white cheddar, and I really

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should have known because it says corn based snack right

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on it.

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But that's all right.

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But I did bring you a few fridos if you

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want to try the onion dip. And then I also

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brought a crisp honey crisp apple.

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Oh my god.

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We can't get enough of those. And we really do

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eat the snacks when we're taking breaks and whatnot.

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Yeah, for sure.

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All right, let's take a break and then you can

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rate my snacks. All right, So what did you think

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of the snacks today?

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I thought they were good. I like the Canyon Poppers.

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I'm not the biggest like puffed cheese fan, but they

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were really good. And the French onion dip was great.

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Really you liked it?

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Yeah? It was good.

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Because you're not a big sour cream cream cheese guy.

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I'm not, but I've always liked French onion dip.

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The recipe for the caramelized onion dip came from One

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Lovely Life. We will post a link to the recipe

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and show notes. I did make one substitution instead of

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using Worcestershire.

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Don't ask me to say we're Worcestershire. I don't know, Okay.

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Instead of using that, I use gochu jang, which is

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brown rice red popper paste if you've never used it before.

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We put it in a lot of like Korean dishes,

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and I make spicy mayo with it. It's a really

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interesting it's spicy but then it's sweet. It's just a

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really it worked.

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It worked well in the French French onion dip.

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Yeah, I really like it a lot.

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Yeah.

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So I would give the French onion dip a ten

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out of ten. And I don't know the what are.

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They called, the Canyon Poppers.

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The Canyon Poppers I think i'd give. If you like

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a cheese snack, I would give those ten out of

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ten too.

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I'll give the Canyon poppers seven out of ten. I'll

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give the French onion dip eight out of ten. Those

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are good ratings, all right.

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Today's episode maybe disturbing for some listeners. It contains discussions

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or pornography, domestic abuse, sexual situations, suicide, and the death

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of a child. Please listen with care. We recorded part

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one of Jennifer and Michael blag week ago. Do you

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remember what happened?

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I have some vague memories.

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Yes, do you want to read the synopsis real quick?

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Yeah. So, days before his tenth wedding anniversary, Mike Blagg's wife, Jennifer,

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and their daughter Abby disappeared from their home. The only

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evidence left behind was a significant amount of blood in

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the primary bedroom. After following several false leads, investigators narrowed

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in on Mike as the prime suspect. Mike and Jennifer

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met when he was a helicopter pilot in the Navy.

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He loved his ordered life in the military, but after

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Jennifer had a difficult pregnancy and mounting health issues, he retired.

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But he had a hard time adjusting to civilian life,

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and he was constantly searching for a better position, which

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prompted the Blags to move several times in a few years.

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Days before she and Abby disappeared, Jennifer and Mike fought

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about another possible move.

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And remember when we left off, the bodies were nowhere.

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To be found, right. That's what's so mysterious about this,

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at least so far, is that they found all this blood,

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but there was no bodies found, and there wasn't really

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a trail of blood kind of leading out of the house.

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There was some they found in the car, I think

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like some droplets and things like that. But yeah, very intriguing.

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Let's go over the timeline before we get any further

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in the case. On November twelfth, at eight pm, Marilyn,

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who was Jennifer's mom, was expecting her to call so

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they could pray together before her cancer treatment the next day.

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Marilyn was going through some sort of cancer treatment. Jennifer

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and her mother, Marilyn, were very close. They talked on

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the phone nearly every day. They had visited a month

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before Jennifer and Abby disappeared, and Marilyn was so glad

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that she had one final visit with her beloved girls.

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But around eight pm, Jennifer did get a phone call

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from her neighbor about having lunch together. So maybe that's

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why she didn't call Marilyn because she was on the

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phone with her neighbor. Okay, so we know that at

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eight pm Jennifer is alive and well. On November thirteenth,

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Mike woke up at about six am. He got dressed

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in the half bathroom. He said that he got dressed

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every morning in a half bath so he wouldn't disturb Jennifer,

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which I thought was a little weird, but he left

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for work at his usual time. Abby and Jennifer usually

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woke up around six thirty am, but when Mike called

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at seven and at seven oh five, Jennifer didn't answer

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the phone. Remember Mike would call her.

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Like multiple times throughout the.

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Day every tonight, and I believe was the range. The

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cameras at Amateech where Mike worked, show him arriving for

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work at five point fifty six am, so there is

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a discrepancy there.

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How far away is his work from his home.

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Probably about ten to fifteen minutes. Okay, No one recalled

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Mike leaving any time during that entire work day. At

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eight forty five, Diana Shirley, Jennifer's best friend, called and

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got the answering machine. Around nine am, Abby was marked

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absent from Bookcliff Christian School. Around three pm, a neighbor

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noticed a van approaching the Blag's house. She thought it

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was Jennifer's van, but she didn't see the driver, but

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this would prove to be false sighting. At four pm,

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Mike left Amtech, which was a little suspicious because remember

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that there was It was a big day for him

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and they were packing up this big assembly line to

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ship to Mexico, and that job wasn't complete, and.

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He was he was overseeing that.

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He was like the plant manager that day. Probably shouldn't

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have left. At four twenty Mike returned home from work

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but didn't find Abby or Jennifer, and that's when he

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called nine one one. We read that call the last episode,

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and police arrived minutes later, as did Mike's pastor. At

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five pm, police canvas the Black's neighborhood. No one had

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seen Jennifer Abby all day. Mike went to the police

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station for an interview and stayed until the early hours

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of the morning. At that time, he was not named

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as a suspect. A criminalist came into the interrogation room

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and used an ultra violet light. He searched Mike's clothing

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for any evidence of blood, and he was clean. Investigators

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were still after weeks of no new leads, and brought

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in retired FBI profiler Ron Walker to assist with the case.

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Michael Blagg was the prime suspect, but there was frustrating

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little evidence linking him to the disappearance of Jennifer and Abbey.

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Walker assured the investigators that they were looking at a

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planned and staged domestic homicide. He said that a typical

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home invasion looks as if a tornado had passed through it.

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The Blag's home was tidy except for the primary bedroom.

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Remember how her purse and jewelry box were on the floor.

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Walker also said that Jennifer was the target of a

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well planned attack and Abby was an ancillary victim. By

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removing the bodies from the home and with them crucial evidence,

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the murderer had made it much harder to solve the case.

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Jennifer left behind a journal. It was two hundred pages

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long and covered the last three years of her life.

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It was largely used to communicate directly with God. Jennifer

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often thought God was punishing her or rewarding her for

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her devotion. Never complained about Mike in her journal or

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wrote about the pornography issue. Cay remember that thousands of

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images of pornography had been found on Mike's computing Oh right, yep.

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Jennifer often blamed herself or Satan for their marital disputes.

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In one entry, Jennifer listed her blessings. She said that

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she was especially blessed for her quote adoring husband. However,

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since their move to Colorado, Jennifer did complain about communication

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breakdowns with Mike. She took the blame, wondering if she

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put too many responsibilities on him because of her health issues.

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Days before her disappearance, she wrote that she and Mike

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had a very serious argument. On November ninth. She called

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her friend in South Carolina and told her that she

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needed to come see her and she had something important

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to tell her she couldn't talk about over the phone.

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Jennifer told her that just she and Abby would make

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the trip, which surprised the friend because Jennifer never traveled

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without Mike.

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On Christmas, Mike bought and wrapped gifts and put them

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under the tree in his new townhouse and hopes that

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Jennifer and Abbey would be home to open them. He

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showed the gifts to reporters who were still following him,

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gold hoop earrings for Jennifer and a Barbie nightgown for Abbey.

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The police were still watching Mike closely four officers were

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assigned to trail him. After Christmas, he made some major

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purchases valued at six eight hundred dollars or twelve thousand dollars. Today,

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he bought a big screen TV, a new computer, and

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stereo equipment. He had received a sizable settlement of thirty

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thousand dollars from the insurance company for Jennifer's missing jewelry.

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So this is January and Jennifer had just gone disappearing

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like six weeks before, and already he's received his settlement.

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Yeah, that seems really Jennifer is.

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Missing, she's not been declared dead. So I thought that

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was really strange that insurance companies settled that claim so quickly.

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That is very odd.

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Thirty thousand dollars. That's a substantial amount, right, jewelry.

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In February two thousand and two, while the police were

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surveilling Mike, they witnessed him pulling up to the rear

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of the Amtech building near the loading dock in a

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borrowed company pickup truck. He picked up a paper shredder,

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a workbench, and a desk. He took them back to

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his townhouse in the company truck. He drove back to

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Amtech later in the evening and returned the truck. The

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next morning, was Saturday. Mike returned and again borrowed the

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pickup truck and took a table. Police were granted a

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search warrant and searched Mike's residence while he was at work.

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They found the stolen items. They left behind a copy

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of the warrant for Mike to see. The value of

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the stolen goods totaled about five hundred dollars. So he

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stole these things from his work. That's really weird.

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And it was because the police were surveilling him and

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I think they had a camera set outside his townhouse. Okay,

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they knew that he was up to something.

240
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Did he have any history of stealing from his work before?

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And people had seen him put the items on the

242
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loading dock the day before and they were like, why

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is he putting that paper shredder that's still in the

244
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box on a loading dock, But they just left it there.

245
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Really strange.

246
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Mike had just received that thirty thousand dollars settlement and

247
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he made a good salary, like in today's money it

248
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would be two hundred thousand dollars. There was no reason

249
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for him to steal those items.

250
00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:15.759
Yeah, that's very very odd.

251
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He had possibly gotten away with one crime and maybe

252
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it gave him a sense of entitlement.

253
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M Yeah, that could be later that evening. They asked

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him Mike to come to the station for a polygraph test,

255
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and he agreed. For the first three months of the investigation,

256
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police had treated Mike as a team member. They talked

257
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to him almost every day. He was treated with kindness

258
00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:40.240
and empathy. He often met up with the detectives to

259
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have a cup of coffee together to discuss case updates.

260
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But that changed after February fifth, two thousand and two.

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Investigators were angry that he had taken advantage of their

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kindness when he stole the furniture from Amtek. During the interrogation,

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they pleaded with Mike to tell them what had happened

264
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on the night that Jennifer and Abby went missing and

265
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where he had left their bodies. Mike was at the

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station for ten hours. He remained firm that he had

267
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nothing to do with their disappearance or deaths. On February fifth,

268
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two thousand and two, Mike took another polygraph test. The

269
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test took two hours, and this time he failed.

270
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In the first episode, we talked about how Mike had

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taken a polygraph test because he had military training, that

272
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it's possible that he was able to mask his guilt.

273
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Yeah, so he passed that first polygraph.

274
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Test as the first one.

275
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During the ten hour interview, he admitted that he might

276
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have an internet porn addiction. He said that Jennifer knew

277
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.720
about it, and sometimes they watched together so that they

278
00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:43.159
could find creative ways to have sex because of Jennifer's

279
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:47.879
medical condition vulvar vestibulitis. Mike said that they had recently

280
00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.840
argued about his porn consumption and just a warning, this

281
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:53.679
next part is a little bit graphic. They argued, when

282
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Jennifer found two collages that Mike had made of men

283
00:13:57.039 --> 00:14:00.600
receiving oral sex and ejaculating on women's faces.

284
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That was his preferred porn content.

285
00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.759
Okay. He also admitted that on November ninth, they disagreed

286
00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:12.240
about another potential move. Mike had grown increasingly dissatisfied with

287
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:15.639
his career. He missed the Navy. He seemed to harbor

288
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:19.639
resentment towards Jennifer for making him leave the military. The

289
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:23.799
interrogation continued until two thirty a m. The investigators could

290
00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.279
feel Mike loosen and become more vulnerable. Tell us what

291
00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:31.000
happened to Jennifer and Abbey. They implored. Mike was softly

292
00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:35.080
crying and placed his head on an investigator's shoulder. I can't,

293
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.279
I can't tell the truth, he cried. He said he

294
00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.639
wanted to pray. He then told the officers that if

295
00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.759
he told the truth, he wanted a lawyer present. The

296
00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:49.480
interview ended after he requested a lawyer. Mike's AMATECH supervisor

297
00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:51.960
called Mike at the police station to tell him that

298
00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:55.399
he was suspended until an investigation was completed into the

299
00:14:55.399 --> 00:15:00.320
stolen items. He was officially terminated a week later. As

300
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.720
he left, the officers told him that if he planned

301
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.799
to take his own life, could he please leave them

302
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.200
a note and tell them where to find Jennifer and

303
00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:10.679
Abby's bodies. That's an interesting request to make.

304
00:15:10.759 --> 00:15:14.440
They were very aggressive with him at this point. He

305
00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.639
was on the cusp of saying, right, what happened, and

306
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:21.039
he clammed up. Yeah, very angry about that.

307
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.440
That's got to be so frustrating for an investigator when

308
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.799
you know that you've got somebody and they're so close

309
00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:29.480
to breaking and then it just gets interrupted. During the

310
00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.919
ten hour interrogation, an officer from the Mesa County Sheriff's

311
00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:36.799
Department had traveled to see Marilyn Conway Jennifer's mother in Texas.

312
00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.120
She sat down with Marylyn and patiently told her that

313
00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:43.240
Mike was the only viable suspect and backed it up

314
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.440
with evidence. She was able to convince Marylyn that her

315
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:49.000
son in law was the one responsible for Jennifer and

316
00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.919
Abby's deaths and that she should help the police with

317
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:55.080
the case. They asked her to phone Mike and record

318
00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:56.960
the calls to try to get him to tell her

319
00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:01.679
more information. She left several messages is on Mike's answering machine.

320
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:04.399
Quote Mike, it's mama. I would like it if you

321
00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:07.399
would pick up the telephone. I've seen information no mother

322
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.399
should see from the Sheriff's office unquote. And in another message,

323
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.240
she said, quote Mike, I would appreciate it if you

324
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:16.480
would give me any information that you feel in your

325
00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:19.039
heart that you can possibly give me as to where

326
00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:21.720
my girls are. If you have any information in your

327
00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.519
heart about my girls, would you please relay it to me,

328
00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:28.799
Mike unquote. It was all a lot for Maryland to navigate,

329
00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:31.720
and she was still frail from her cancer treatment. She

330
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.159
had loved Mike as a son.

331
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:34.240
Isn't it sad?

332
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:35.600
That's really sad.

333
00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:39.240
The next day, February sixth, two thousand and two, officers

334
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.240
went to Mike's townhouse to retrieve the stolen items from Amatech.

335
00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:46.240
They knew that he had to be home because he'd

336
00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:49.519
been suspended the day before. When he didn't answer the door.

337
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:54.159
After several attempts, officers contacted the building manager to gain entry,

338
00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:58.559
they found Mike unconscious in the bathtub with his wrist

339
00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.320
slit boy. The photo of Jennifer and Abbey lay near by,

340
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.000
along with the Bible. The detectives weren't going to let

341
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:10.039
Mike die without a confession. They shouted at him, Where's Jennifer,

342
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:14.400
Where's Abby? Mike's reply was barely audible over the approaching

343
00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:18.720
sirens of the ambulance. I don't know, he said. He

344
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:22.319
was rushed to the hospital. Mike did leave a suicide note.

345
00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:25.279
It said, quote, God love you all. I have tried

346
00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:27.440
to do the right thing throughout my life. I have

347
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:30.319
made many mistakes along the way, and I am sorry

348
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.839
for any of those mistakes that have harmed any of

349
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:35.480
you out there. Mike wrote in the note that the

350
00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:38.039
Sheriff's office was going to say many things about him

351
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.799
in the coming weeks, and that he wasn't perfect, but

352
00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:43.720
neither was he a murderer. He said, I love my

353
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.000
wife and daughter, and I planned to see them in

354
00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:49.160
heaven one day. The investigators have led me to believe

355
00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:51.880
that Jennifer and Abbey are dead. I cannot live on

356
00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.640
this earth without them. I am sorry for all of you,

357
00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:58.039
but without jenn and Abbey, I am incomplete. I love

358
00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:01.480
you all. P s. My Lord of hope and peace

359
00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:06.240
is now my Lord of comfort. Investigators questioned the timing

360
00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:09.039
of Mike's suicide attempt. They had told him that they'd

361
00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:11.200
stop by at some point during the day to pick

362
00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:12.880
up the stolen items from Amattak.

363
00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.759
I wondered about that if he was if he knew

364
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:17.200
they were coming, and that was why.

365
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.079
He sounded on this stage. I mean, I hate to

366
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.240
say that, but what the Bible and the picture and however,

367
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:25.799
Mike was admitted to the hospital in critical condition by

368
00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:28.359
the next day, though he was upgraded to serious condition.

369
00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:32.400
Some took Mike's suicide attempt as an admission of guilt.

370
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:35.759
Others said that the police and their harsh tactics had

371
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:39.359
driven him to it. The pastor of Mike's church encouraged

372
00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:42.799
people not to rush to judgment, Mike had waning support

373
00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:46.640
from friends and family. The news of Mike's theft at Amtek,

374
00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:50.160
combined with the suicide attempt, was enough to turn the

375
00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:54.000
Grand Junction community against him. For months, they had lived

376
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.039
in fear of a dangerous lunatic in their midst only

377
00:18:57.079 --> 00:18:59.960
to discover that Mike had likely deceived them all alone

378
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.359
long when the spring thaw came in April two thousand

379
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:05.920
and two, where the two thousand people gathered in Grand

380
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.400
Junction to search for Jennifer and Abbey. Most were locals,

381
00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:13.119
but some came from as far away as Texas. Jennifer

382
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:16.839
and Abbey's disappearance had touched many people, the hope of

383
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:20.200
finding them alive had gradually diminished. The search was a

384
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.759
recovery mission to bring them home to their family, to

385
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.519
bury them in their final resting place. Ravine's gullies and

386
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:30.079
forested areas, both public and private, were searched. The terrain

387
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.960
was rugged and challenging. Dozens of areas of interest were

388
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.759
tagged that looked as if a fresh grave had been dug,

389
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:39.559
but many of these turned out to be animal graves.

390
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:42.000
At least so many people go out to the woods

391
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:46.200
to bury their pets. Yet, further investigation revealed that Mike

392
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:49.480
got to work on November thirteenth, much earlier than he'd

393
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:53.319
initially told police, and much earlier than what was typical

394
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:57.000
for him. When an employee arrived at Amtek at five

395
00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.640
a m. The door was already open and she was

396
00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.240
surprised to see Mike. On the side of the Amtech

397
00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:08.039
building is a large industrial dumpster equipped with a self

398
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:13.000
contained compactor. When trash is placed inside the compactor, it's

399
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:17.160
crushed with great force and then pushed further into the dumpster.

400
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.920
The top of the dumpster is locked, preventing anyone from

401
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:24.279
seeing the contents until it's emptied by the hauler at

402
00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.480
the landfill. And I believe you need a key to

403
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.200
operate the dumpster, and only a few people in the

404
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.799
plant had a key to the dumpster. Guess who one

405
00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:34.319
of those people?

406
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:35.319
I guess Mike.

407
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.240
Have you did that make sense to you the description

408
00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:38.799
of the dumpster?

409
00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.839
Yeah? I think so. Yeah. Now I'm a little worried

410
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:43.720
about what that dumpster might have been used for.

411
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.680
Phone records showed an Amateech employee had called the waste

412
00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:52.000
management company to request an additional pickup on November thirteenth,

413
00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:55.880
two thousand and one. Initially, detectives thought that Mike had

414
00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:59.160
made that call, but later it was revealed that it

415
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:02.400
was a different employed. When the dumpster was picked up

416
00:21:02.440 --> 00:21:06.720
and emptied on November fourteenth, its contents weighed nearly two tons.

417
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:11.079
The dumpster was returned to Amatech and later sprayed with luminol,

418
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.400
but there was no evidence of blood. On May thirteenth,

419
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.079
six months after the disappearance of Jennifer and Abbey, police

420
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.920
requested a search warrant for the Mesa County landfill. Two

421
00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:29.119
days later, Mike relocated to his mother's house in Warner Robbins, Georgia. Previously,

422
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:34.440
he said I will not leave until their bodies are found.

423
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:37.839
This move was suspicious to police, of course, and they

424
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:40.759
kept him in their sights. Mike claimed he went to

425
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:44.440
find work in Georgia because he was no longer employable

426
00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:49.400
in Colorado. Work of the landfill was tedious, as hundreds

427
00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:52.240
of tons of trash needed to be sorted and combed through,

428
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.759
but the meticulous records kept and GPS helped to pinpoint

429
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.160
the search area. Each day, about one hundred tons of

430
00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.039
trash were sifted through. Each bag was opened and its

431
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.240
contents raked through a newspaper was found from November thirteenth.

432
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:12.079
Newspapers and mail, when found at a landfill, can be

433
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:15.079
an invaluable resource because it tells them that they're on

434
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.160
the right track right nearby. Trash from AMATEK was identified

435
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:23.599
from their distinctive fluorescent green circuit boards, which gave the

436
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:26.759
weary investigators hope that they were getting closer.

437
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.880
I can't even imagine doing a landfill search like that.

438
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:33.440
It's got to be so miserable, so so tedious.

439
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.119
On June fourth, twenty three days into the search, an

440
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:41.680
investigator spotted human remains a woman's right leg dangling from

441
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.680
an excavator. Oh The next day, the rest of the

442
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:49.480
mummified corpse was found amongst garbage from Amattek. Dental records

443
00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:53.000
confirmed that it was Jennifer. In life, she weighed about

444
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.119
one hundred and thirty pounds. Her corpse weighed just seventy.

445
00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:59.319
She was dressed in an oversized T shirt that she

446
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.279
often wore a and her retainer was in her mouth.

447
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.519
Bullet fragments were found in Jennifer's brain. The entry point

448
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.160
appeared to be her left eye. Stippling was present on

449
00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.400
her skin, indicating that she'd been shot at close range.

450
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.319
The bullet was a hollow point, likely from a nine

451
00:23:16.359 --> 00:23:20.160
millimeter handgun. The coroner ruled that Jennifer's cause of death

452
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.279
was a gunshot to the head and the manner of

453
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:24.440
death was homicide.

454
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.160
Ah so sad I was. I didn't have a lot

455
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:30.799
of hope. But boy, I'm just I'm just so shattered

456
00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:31.079
by that.

457
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.400
Yeah, it gets worse. Marilyn Conway told the Fort Worth

458
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.720
Star Telegram, quote, one of our prayers has been answered

459
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:41.160
because we found one of our girls. We need to

460
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:43.759
find Abby. I don't know why someone would do this.

461
00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:47.440
I don't know who would do such a thing. The

462
00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:50.759
operation at the landfill went from using large machinery to

463
00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.319
a much smaller, delicate operation In hopes of finding Abby.

464
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:57.480
The DA said, quote, instead of taking it out by

465
00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:00.519
the bucketful, they'll take it out by the spoonful. We

466
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.680
have at least one human being to be treated with respect.

467
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:08.039
End quote. The search continued and what one hundred degree temperatures,

468
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.960
The stench of the landfill was almost unbearable for the investigators.

469
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.240
Even when they left that landfill, they could still smell

470
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.559
it strong forty mile per hour, winds blew dust and

471
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.759
debris into the hot air. The search for Abbey continued

472
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.000
for seven more weeks, but on day fifty three, after

473
00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:29.519
sorting through four six hundred twenty four tons of garbage,

474
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.279
the search was abandoned. Sadly, her remains were never found.

475
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.880
Ah, that's so tragic, and that's so siahd Yeah, and.

476
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:39.480
In the investigators, like the police have to do the search.

477
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:42.440
They can't have anyone else do it, so it's all

478
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.039
you know, at least they're doing that hard work.

479
00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:45.839
That's horrible.

480
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:56.279
We'll be back after a break. Before we get back

481
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.279
to the case, I just wanted to talk again about

482
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:01.279
the people, the police officer that worked at the landfill

483
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.880
and what heroes they were. There's just tons and tons

484
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:07.119
of trash and it all ends up looking like this

485
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.039
brownish gray color, and it's just such a horrible thing

486
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:11.680
to have to do.

487
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:15.119
Yeah, it's absolutely heroic doing that.

488
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.000
And for days and weeks on end, I know, the.

489
00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:22.240
Smell has to be like just horrible. It's tedious work and.

490
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.079
They were just trying to find little Abby and they

491
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:27.960
never found her. It's so sad, just devastating that. You know,

492
00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:30.640
that's probably likely her final resting place.

493
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:35.720
Yeah. Memorial services for Jennifer and Abbey were held in Ardmore, Oklahoma,

494
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.559
where Jennifer grew up, Simpsonville, South Carolina, the town where

495
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:43.400
Jennifer loved living before the Blags moved to Colorado, and

496
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:47.200
Grand Junction. Marilyn was devastated by the loss of her

497
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:52.559
daughter and granddaughter. The Oklahoma pastor's words comforted her, quote,

498
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.480
she is not missing, not missing from your heart, not

499
00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.079
missing from your memory, and not missing from the reach

500
00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.799
of God unquote. Mike's mother and sister came to the

501
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:06.079
service in Grand Junction, which shocked many attendees. A memorial

502
00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:09.519
video was played of Jennifer's life, carefully edited to not

503
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:13.640
include any pictures of Mike. Abby's first grade class sang

504
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:14.960
at the memorial.

505
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:16.200
That must have been so sad.

506
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:20.960
Yeah. The day after Jennifer's remains were found in the landfill,

507
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:24.240
Mike was arrested at his mother's house in Georgia, still

508
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:28.119
wearing his pajamas. He was charged with first degree murder,

509
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:31.599
abuse of a corpse, and felony theft for defrauding his

510
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:35.359
insurance company out of thirty thousand dollars for filing acclaim

511
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.519
for Jennifer's missing jewelry. His bail was set at one

512
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:43.279
million dollars, which his family wasn't able to pay. Mike's

513
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.000
mother said he did nothing to hurt his wife and child.

514
00:26:46.039 --> 00:26:46.920
That I can tell you.

515
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.119
It takes a lot for a mother to believe her

516
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:51.799
son is guilty of murder.

517
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.200
Yes, we've seen that over and over again. Warner Robin's

518
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.000
residence were shocked by Mike's arrest. They thought he was

519
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.880
such a nice guy. He went to church every week,

520
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:04.480
and when he wasn't working his part time construction job,

521
00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:08.400
he was helping elderly people with home improvements. Mike was

522
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.119
put on suicide watch at the jail. He refused extradition

523
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:14.599
to Colorado until the governor became involved.

524
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.079
I believe the governor of Georgia said, if you stay here, Mike,

525
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:20.720
we're going to make your life really, really difficult.

526
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:23.200
He wanted to get rid of Mike at all costs,

527
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:26.720
and I don't blame him. Once Mike was back in Colorado,

528
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.720
he was put in solitary confinement and again put on

529
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:34.039
suicide watch. Later, Mike was charged with two additional counts

530
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.039
of theft for stealing items from Amateek. Although Colorado had

531
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:42.680
only executed one person since nineteen seventy six. Prosecutors considered

532
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:46.119
seeking the death penalty for Mike, but without Abby's body

533
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:49.200
it was unlikely to stick, so he was not charged

534
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:53.000
with Abby's murder up until this point no okay. At

535
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.680
a pre trial hearing on Christmas Eve two thousand and two,

536
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.839
the judge ruled that there was enough evidence against Michael

537
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:02.160
Blagg to stand trial. At the same hearing, the judge

538
00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:04.400
agreed to cut his bail in half to five hundred

539
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.240
thousand dollars. He was released on January eighth after his

540
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.640
family posted bail. On the same day, he entered a

541
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.720
plea of not guilty. Mike was allowed to return to

542
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:17.279
Georgia to live with his mother while he awaited trial

543
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:20.680
and worked part time. Mike had no savings and was

544
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:23.839
represented by a public defender. He went to the office

545
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.799
every day and worked on his case alongside his attorneys.

546
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:29.960
In March two thousand and three, they came forward with

547
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.839
a new bombshell theory. They discovered that an employee of

548
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.519
the Mesa County DA's office, a prosecutor, had been named

549
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:42.160
as a suspect early in the investigation. What he had

550
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:46.200
been stalking a neighbor of the Blags Deputy District Attorney

551
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:50.400
Tammy Eritt. The defense claimed that the stalker or someone

552
00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:53.960
he hired, had killed Jennifer in a case of mistaken identity,

553
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.920
and Abby had been killed after she had witnessed her

554
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:01.279
mother's murder. A neighbor reportedly heard ma voices outside of

555
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.880
the Blag home on the morning of November thirteenth.

556
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:05.480
What do you think of that theory.

557
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:08.480
It's an interesting theory, but to me, it seems unlikely,

558
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:11.000
just because of the fact that Jennifer's body was found

559
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:13.759
with her retainers in her mouth and in the shirt

560
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:16.319
that she slept in, meaning that it seems like she

561
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:19.079
was killed while she was sleeping, and the window of

562
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:22.200
time that that could have happened after Michael left her

563
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:23.759
work was pretty short, so it.

564
00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:25.720
Seemed that they could have been waiting for Mike to

565
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:28.480
go to work. But I don't think that makes sense either,

566
00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:32.240
because I believe Tammy was single and lived on her own.

567
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:36.200
Potentially the person thought that she was sleeping with his guy, Mike,

568
00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:38.039
and he left the house and they went and killed her.

569
00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:39.880
So I mean, there's I can see a little bit.

570
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:44.039
Of Jebby could have wandered into the room. There will

571
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.960
be a little more evidence that we'll talk about that

572
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:48.640
there was a possible intruder.

573
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:52.599
Yeah, there were many pre trial hearings. The defense wanted

574
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:56.200
to throw out certain evidence, including anything about Mike's porn addiction.

575
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:00.519
They questioned the reliability of Luella Cross, a woman from

576
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:04.119
Colorado Rural Legal Services who thought that Jennifer had come

577
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:08.880
there seeking protection from her abusive husband. Luella hadn't gotten

578
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.839
the woman's name and the date of her visit. The

579
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.160
woman said that she didn't have any money and was

580
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.279
tired of her husband's girlfriends, which the defense argued was

581
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:20.920
not the situation in the Blag's marriage. Jennifer had access

582
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:23.240
to money, and Mike had never had a girlfriend.

583
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.640
On February twenty third, twenty four, twenty seven months after

584
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:31.319
the murders, the trial began at the Mesa County Courthouse.

585
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:35.319
The defense's motion to have the case moved had been denied.

586
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:39.000
Jury's selection began from a pool of two hundred. It

587
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:41.759
was difficult to find members of the community who had

588
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.480
not already formed an opinion about Mike's guilt or innocence.

589
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:46.839
I've formed an opinion.

590
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:51.839
The Daily Sentinel obtained personal information about the jury and

591
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.119
published an article giving very detailed information about the jurors,

592
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.519
such as where they worked and if they were the

593
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.880
owner of a business, which angered the judge greatly.

594
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.799
That's awful.

595
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.880
It was horrible. Yeah. It took seven days to seat

596
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:09.160
the jury of twelve plus four alternates. They ranged in

597
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:11.079
age from nineteen to eighty one.

598
00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:13.200
It's a wide range.

599
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.839
Each morning of the trial, Mike, now forty one, with

600
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.680
graying hair, gave the jurors a smile and a nod,

601
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.799
sometimes mouthing good morning to them. His mother, sister, and

602
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:25.880
brother came to support him daily. He placed a picture

603
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.559
of Jennifer and Abby on the defense table. Boy, it

604
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:31.240
sounds so performative, doesn't it.

605
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:31.559
Yes.

606
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:35.200
The prosecution argued that the stress of his job, poor

607
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.960
an addiction, and Jennifer's mounting health issues drove Mike to

608
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:42.599
his breaking point. They believe that sometime after midnight on

609
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:46.119
November thirteenth, Mike smothered Abby with a pillow so she

610
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:49.799
wouldn't hear him shoot Jennifer. After he smothered Abby, he

611
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:52.480
went to the primary bedroom put a pillow over Jennifer's

612
00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.119
head while she was sleeping and shot her through the

613
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:56.839
pillow into her left eye.

614
00:31:57.160 --> 00:31:59.319
I'm curious, do you know why they thought he put

615
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.000
a pillow over because I remember you said that there

616
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:05.279
was stipling on her wound, which to me would mean

617
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:07.640
that the gun was very close to her.

618
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.599
There were a couple of reasons. One that there was

619
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:13.519
no blood spatter. Okay, remember like there was nothing on

620
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:16.599
the ceiling or the walls or even the bed frame.

621
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:20.480
The only blood was on the mattress and it had

622
00:32:20.920 --> 00:32:23.960
dripped onto the floor and yep. And the other reason,

623
00:32:24.039 --> 00:32:25.359
and I think we're going to talk about this in

624
00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:27.720
just a minute, but I'll just say it now, there

625
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:32.039
was a blue red in her brain that they thought

626
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:33.920
had come from the pillowcase.

627
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:35.079
Okay, that would make sense.

628
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:39.119
The bullet lodged in her brain, killing her quickly. Mike

629
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:40.880
went to the garage and got a tarp and a

630
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:43.839
red and black tent. He placed Abby and Jennifer on

631
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.160
the tent, wrapped it securely, carried it to the garage

632
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:50.039
and put it in the van. He cleaned the house

633
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.400
and then drove to Amattak placed the bodies of his

634
00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:55.680
wife and daughter into the dumpster and started the compactor

635
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.359
there was a bathroom with a shower at AMATTEK, and

636
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:03.039
Mike like showered there and put fresh clothes on and

637
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.599
disposed of his soiled clothes in the dumpster. He went

638
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:10.559
back home, traded vehicles, and then returned to AMATEEC. Mike

639
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:13.599
was really meticulous when he put the bodies into this

640
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.799
tent and tarp and wrapped them up. Yeah, because there

641
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:19.759
was really very little blood found anywhere.

642
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:21.079
Yeah.

643
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.279
Several employees testified that Mike seemed nervous that day and

644
00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:27.559
had walked to the loading dock multiple times, something he

645
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.880
typically didn't do. He even took his own trash out

646
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:33.920
that day. But that day he also remember they were

647
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:37.720
wrapping up that assembly line equipment and shipping it to Mexico.

648
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:40.319
So it wasn't a typical day anyway, exactly.

649
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.640
Yea in the five calls home were likely to create

650
00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:48.319
an alibi. The jury was shown some gruesome pictures of

651
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:51.559
Jennifer's autopsy. Her head and body had been flattened and

652
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:55.000
the land fell. It was impossible to determine if she'd

653
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:59.119
been sexually assaulted. The bullet had pierced Jennifer's eyelid, so

654
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:01.640
it was likely that Mike had shot her during her sleep.

655
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:06.359
The prosecution honed in on Mike's porn consumption. Six hundred

656
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:10.480
and sixty eight pornographic photos were downloaded, He visited one

657
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:14.199
eight hundred and seventy six porn websites and had one

658
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.079
hundred and nineteen pornographic text files on his computers. And

659
00:34:18.159 --> 00:34:21.000
some of the images were graphic, and they were shown

660
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:25.079
in court and we talked about what Mike's preferred type

661
00:34:25.119 --> 00:34:26.360
of porn was earlier.

662
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:27.920
It's a lot of porn websites.

663
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:31.440
I know, the images didn't strike me as like that's all.

664
00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:34.559
That's obviously a lot, but one thousand eight, Like, I'm

665
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:36.000
very naive when it comes.

666
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:39.320
To that many porn websites either.

667
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:43.039
There's probably way more. Actually, during the sixth week of

668
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:47.079
the trial, Marilyn Conway was called to testify. She talked

669
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:49.440
about how she loved Mike and thought he was a

670
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:53.440
wonderful husband and father. She had been Mike's most ardent supporter,

671
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.039
that is until that dan court. She told investigators that

672
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.239
Jennifer and Mike were very much in love and she

673
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:03.079
was not aware of any domestic violence in their relationship.

674
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.440
But in the most damaging testimony of the trial, Marilyn

675
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.639
revealed that in nineteen ninety one, when Jennifer and Mike

676
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:13.719
lived in Corpus Christi, he was drunk one night and

677
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:18.519
became violent. He cornered Jennifer and choked her. Michael hurt

678
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:22.239
her in Corpus He hurt her. He hurt her in

679
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:23.360
Corpus Yes, he did.

680
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:29.719
And missus Conway said that Michael hurt Jennifer in Corpus Christie, Texas.

681
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.440
Yes, sir, what do you remember about that?

682
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:37.400
She called home one night and said that Mike had

683
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:40.000
cornered her in the bedroom, and obviously he was drunk.

684
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:43.880
I understood that he was trying to choke her.

685
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.559
You could tell the attorney questioning her there was surprised

686
00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:48.760
by her response.

687
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:51.159
It kind of came out of the blue. Yeah, but

688
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:52.000
good for her.

689
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:55.079
Yeah, Usually in court, I think attorneys they always know

690
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:57.079
what they're the person's going to say on the stand.

691
00:35:57.079 --> 00:35:58.360
But you could tell that was a little bit of

692
00:35:58.400 --> 00:35:58.960
a surprise.

693
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:03.119
Well, it was controversial too, because it seemed like it

694
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:06.480
was new evidence. And Marylyn said, well, I just remembered it,

695
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.920
and then I wanted to mention a statistic I found

696
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:14.480
about strangling. Researchers involved in a study determined that being

697
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:18.639
strangled by a partner even one time increases a victim's

698
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:23.159
risk of homicide by that partner by over six hundred percent.

699
00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:24.079
Wow.

700
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:28.440
While most women murdered in domestic violence violence homicides are shot,

701
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:32.320
strangulation is also the highest predictor of a homicide with

702
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.840
a gun. So if your partner has ever tried to strangle,

703
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:37.320
that is.

704
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:39.199
A big, big red flag it is.

705
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:43.360
So please take that seriously. Yeah, because that's such a

706
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:47.039
scary statistic, it really is. The night of the incident,

707
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:50.599
when Jennifer called Marylyn, Marilyn demanded to speak with Mike.

708
00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:54.199
She made him promise that he would never hurt Jennifer again.

709
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:56.880
Marylyn told him that if he ever wanted to get

710
00:36:56.960 --> 00:36:58.679
rid of Jennifer, that he should take her to the

711
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:02.280
airport and she could come and live with her. After

712
00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:04.880
the event, Marilyn always made sure that Jennifer had a

713
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:08.360
blank check of hers to use in a case of emergency.

714
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:11.440
Jennifer's stepfather had even gone to the bank and added

715
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:13.679
Jennifer as a co signer on their account.

716
00:37:13.960 --> 00:37:15.719
She sounds like a good mom, I know.

717
00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:19.800
Marilyn also testified that when she helped Mike pack up

718
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:23.239
the house. She found a sapphire ring of Jennifer's that

719
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:26.400
Mike had reported stolen. She gave it to Mike, and

720
00:37:26.440 --> 00:37:30.719
she didn't say anything interesting. The defense argued that some

721
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:33.360
of the one thy, eight hundred and seventy six pornographic

722
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:37.000
websites were just pop up ads. They disputed that Mike

723
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:40.079
and Jennifer had fought over his porn addiction on November twelfth,

724
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:43.079
but the last time he had downloaded porn on his

725
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:47.519
computer was on October fourth. Records on his computer showed

726
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:52.719
that his porn consumption had decreased somewhat significantly between October

727
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.719
and November thirteenth. The defense attempted to embed reasonable doubt

728
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.519
in the jury with several key pieces of forensic evidence.

729
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:03.800
There were sixteen hairs from an unknown source found in

730
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:08.039
the crime scene, along with unidentifiable DNA on the bedding

731
00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:11.440
in the primary bedroom. I'm not sure if the DNA

732
00:38:11.559 --> 00:38:15.840
was unidentifiable or insufficient to make a match. Okay, I

733
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:18.239
think that's a fine line, and I'm not sure what.

734
00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:21.039
The so we don't know for sure if the DNA

735
00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:23.639
was someone else's DNA or if it just they just

736
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:25.519
couldn't tell whose DNA is right.

737
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:27.960
I read two books on the case, and neither of

738
00:38:28.000 --> 00:38:31.320
them were very clear on that point. Okay, But the

739
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:35.679
defense also pointed to scuffs on the back fence and

740
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.559
trampled grass in the Blacks yard as proof of a

741
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:42.239
possible intruder. There were three unknown shoe prints and twelve

742
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:45.760
unknown palm prints in the Black home, and a mystery

743
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.800
bloodstain on garage steps that didn't belong to any of

744
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:52.000
the Blacks. So there, you know, there is a little

745
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.079
bit of reasonable doubt there. The defense also claimed that

746
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.559
a child predator could have killed Jennifer and kidnapped Abby.

747
00:38:59.239 --> 00:39:01.639
They said the police had tunnel vision and worked under

748
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.239
the assumption that it's always the husband. Something that Mike

749
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:07.880
said over and over to police was that, you know,

750
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.599
I bet someone saw us out. Abby was such a

751
00:39:10.599 --> 00:39:13.239
cute little girl. They saw Abby and they wanted her,

752
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:15.639
and they just came, and you know, they had to

753
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:20.119
murder Jennifer to get to Abby. That was Mike's favorite theory.

754
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.760
Over the twenty six days of the trial, the jury

755
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.679
heard from one hundred and fourteen witnesses and viewed three

756
00:39:25.800 --> 00:39:29.960
hundred and fifty exhibits, some of them very disturbing. Once

757
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.719
deliberations began, it took ten hours for the jury to

758
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:33.559
reach a verdict.

759
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:37.280
Ten hours is pretty quick for a five week trial.

760
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:41.559
Yeah that is. Michael Blagg was found guilty on all counts,

761
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:45.519
including the theft from his workplace. As the verdict was read,

762
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:47.400
Mike shook his head in disbelief.

763
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:50.400
As to count one, we the jury find the defendant,

764
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:53.800
Michael Blagg guilty of first degree murders to blag anything

765
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:55.239
you'd like to say before your sentence.

766
00:39:58.360 --> 00:39:59.840
I can tell you, your honor, that I am in

767
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.519
of these charges and I have nothing further to say.

768
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:08.679
Thank you for the offense of first degree murder, which

769
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:11.760
is a class one felony. The defendant a sentence to

770
00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:15.800
Colorado Department of Corrections for the remainder of his natural life.

771
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:18.599
I haven't mentioned this, I don't think before, but I

772
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.280
really dislike Mike. I really hate that guy.

773
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:22.639
I don't like him either.

774
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:26.639
It's probably one of the worst guys because he acts

775
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:30.880
like such a nice guy, but he's clearly just disgusting. Yeah.

776
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:34.079
After the verdict was read, Mike's mother yelled, I love you,

777
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.079
sweetheart as he was let out of the courtroom. In cuffs.

778
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:41.800
She still was not convinced. I guess. Marilyn thanked the

779
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:45.840
jurors for doing their best. Quote for years, Michael Blagg

780
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:47.800
was a son in law to me. I loved him,

781
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:50.599
My daughter loved him, and Abby dearly loved her father.

782
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:53.159
God was with us through this whole thing, and I

783
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:56.119
pray that he has been with the Black family. We've

784
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.079
lost a son in law too, and I hope the

785
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:01.039
Black family looks to the Lord. There's just nothing else.

786
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:05.559
Four jurors were interviewed. They said that they couldn't get

787
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:09.440
over three pieces of evidence. Jennifer's keys placed among the

788
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:13.039
contents of her purse, the blood evidence, and a blue

789
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:15.760
fiber that was found in Jennifer's brain, along with the

790
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.079
bullet fragment, likely from a pillow that Mike placed over

791
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.360
her head when he shot her. They believed that Jennifer

792
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:24.840
was about to leave Mike. They didn't think Mike was

793
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.920
a Christian man. They found his smiles directed at them

794
00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:29.840
insincere and inappropriate.

795
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:32.519
I love when a jury just can see through all

796
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:35.000
the yeah yes and just get it right.

797
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:38.920
The lead detective on the case, Steve King, said, quote,

798
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:42.360
I think grand junction is a safer community without Michael Blagg,

799
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:46.000
and heaven is a better place with Jennifer and Abbey unquote.

800
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.599
When Mike arrived at the Lyman Correctional Facility, he was

801
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:51.840
promptly beaten by his fellow inmates.

802
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:53.320
I like that for him.

803
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:56.880
I'm not mad about it. Later he was transferred to

804
00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.000
the Centennial Correctional Facility, where he worked as a library.

805
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:04.679
In twenty fourteen, after ten years in prison, a judge

806
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:08.440
threw out Michael's murder conviction, enrouled that he should receive

807
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:12.760
a new trial. A juror in his trial, Marilyn Charlesworth,

808
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:15.599
failed to disclose that she had been a victim of

809
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:19.800
domestic abuse on the juror questionnaire. When you have to

810
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:23.599
take those juror questionnaires seriously, they are completed under the

811
00:42:23.639 --> 00:42:27.519
penalty of perjury, meaning if you lie, you can be prosecuted,

812
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:31.039
and as in this case, the whole trial had to

813
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:34.639
be thrown out. Marilyn had filed a restraining order against

814
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:37.360
her ex husband after he beat and threatened to kill her.

815
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:41.360
Michael's defense learned this information after she testified at a

816
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:45.199
public hearing in twenty thirteen, where she openly talked about

817
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:49.159
being a victim of domestic abuse. Charles Worth also failed

818
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:52.760
to report that she has low vision on her jury questionnaire.

819
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:56.159
She served ten days in jail and was fined ten

820
00:42:56.199 --> 00:43:00.960
thousand dollars. Michael awaited the second trial again in Georgia

821
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:04.199
at his mother's house. A change in venue was granted.

822
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:07.079
This time. The trial took place at the Jefferson County

823
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:11.199
Courthouse in Golden, Colorado. Eighty witnesses were heard from over

824
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:15.280
five weeks. Michael testified at this trial he had nothing

825
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:17.840
to lose. He said he loved his wife and daughter

826
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:20.199
with all his heart and never would have harmed them.

827
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:22.440
There were no cameras in the courtroom. I wish we

828
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:25.199
had some audio to play here, but we don't. After

829
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:28.960
seventeen hours of deliberation, the jury again found him guilty

830
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:33.480
of first degree or I know in relief. Jennifer's mother, Marilyn,

831
00:43:33.760 --> 00:43:35.760
was there to see the verdict. Dread. Do you remember

832
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:38.840
earlier in the case, Jennifer's mother had been going through

833
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:44.199
cancer treatment, So I think that she survived, So that's good,

834
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:47.800
she said. Quote those in this room know the devastation

835
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.760
that occurred in November two thousand and one. From that

836
00:43:50.920 --> 00:43:54.000
time to this, the loss of two children at one time.

837
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:57.360
Nothing compares, and I hope no one in this room

838
00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:02.800
ever experiences it. Next, David Loman, Jennifer's brother, spoke, the

839
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:05.559
loss of his sister, who he called his best friend

840
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:09.960
and niece, crushed him. David searched for Abby for years

841
00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:13.880
in and around the Grand Junction area before Michael's sentencing.

842
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:17.440
He said, quote, the devastation that one's decision has on

843
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:20.480
someone else are incredible, and most of us don't think

844
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:22.840
about that, and that's something that many of us need

845
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:27.000
to start thinking about. Jennifer and David remained close until

846
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:30.239
her death and always ended their phone conversations with I

847
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:34.400
love you. David found great comfort after Jennifer's death that

848
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.239
they had that role because he knew that his sister

849
00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:41.280
knew how much he loved her. Michael Blagg was sentenced

850
00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:43.880
to life in prison without the possibility of parole for

851
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:47.280
a second time. Sadly, he has never been charged with

852
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.880
Abby's murder. What do you think about that?

853
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.320
I mean, I think it's too bad. You know, the

854
00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:54.760
fact that he's spending life in prison without the possibility

855
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:58.239
of parole helps, but it would be nice to have

856
00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:00.199
justice for Abby's murder as well.

857
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:03.400
In twenty twenty three, and Blag's most reason appeal, a

858
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:06.559
court appointed attorney argued for a new trial based on

859
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:10.159
the following items. One evidence that the second trial was

860
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:13.719
allowed from an unlawful search of his home. Two, an

861
00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:17.599
expert witness offered their opinion regarding Mike's guilt on the

862
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:21.159
witness stand, which you're not supposed to do. Three evidence

863
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:26.800
of an alternate suspect was excluded for his testimony was restricted,

864
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:31.639
and five in proper cross examination was allowed. A three

865
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:35.039
judge panel denied Mike's appeal and wrote in their opinion

866
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.960
quote evidence showed that Blag had experienced personal, marital and

867
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:42.920
work problems before the murder. Expert testimony indicated that it

868
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.360
was unlikely that an intruder unknown to Blag's wife had

869
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:49.480
broken into the home and killed her. The crime scene

870
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:52.239
in the home appeared to be staged and to look

871
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.480
like a robbery gone wrong. The family van was likely

872
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.480
used to transport his wife's body and then returned to

873
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:02.559
home end quote. The judges listed evidence they thought proved

874
00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:06.079
Mike was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, including the dumpster

875
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:08.880
at Amtek being the place where the bodies were placed,

876
00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:12.239
Mike owned a gun similar to the one that was

877
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.559
used in Jennifer's murder. She was found wrapped in a

878
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:18.440
tent that Mike was known to own, and that Jennifer

879
00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:21.519
was found next to trash from Amtek in the landfill.

880
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:23.840
That seemed like one of the strongest pieces of evidence

881
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:26.000
to me. The fact that her body was found with

882
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:29.559
the other things from Amtek and just that they can

883
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.960
kind of trace that back to the compactor there. That

884
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:35.280
seemed pretty irrefutable to.

885
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:38.639
Me, right, and few people had a key to that compact.

886
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:41.679
The members of the police force that had tirelessly searched

887
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:45.159
for Abby and Jennifer were all given commemorative plaques and

888
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:48.280
a little yellow toy excavator to thank them for their service.

889
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.159
Sheriff Rick Clausen said, quote, the only thing about the

890
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.159
case that haunts me is the thought that Abby might

891
00:46:55.199 --> 00:46:58.480
be out there and she just might not ever get recovered.

892
00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:02.840
In conjunction with a Laura Recovery Center, a Texas based

893
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:06.360
nonprofit who had helped search for Abby and Jennifer, the

894
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:09.880
Abbey and Jennifer Recovery Foundation was founded in hopes of

895
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:13.880
helping other families find their loved ones. Jennifer's brother David

896
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:17.119
was the president. They created a twenty four hour hot

897
00:47:17.119 --> 00:47:19.679
line with the intent of being able to begin searches

898
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:23.559
as quickly as possible. Mike and his family had nothing

899
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:26.760
to do with the foundation, but sadly, both the Laura

900
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:31.280
Recovery Foundation and the Abbey and Jennifer Recovery Foundation later dissolved.

901
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:35.119
Abbey Blagg was a sweet, inquisitive child. She was friendly

902
00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:37.920
and she didn't shy away from talking to adults. The

903
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:40.039
pastor of her church said that she seemed to have

904
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.320
an understanding of God than a much older children child

905
00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:46.079
would have. She loved to sing and she loved ice cream.

906
00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:48.639
She liked to play with her baby dolls and barbies

907
00:47:48.679 --> 00:47:51.800
and take long hikes in the woods. Jennifer Blagg was

908
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:54.880
a loving wife, mother, daughter, and friend. Her faith gave

909
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:57.840
her great comfort in her life. She was funny, kind,

910
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:01.480
and dedicated to helping others. Abby and Jennifer deserve to

911
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:03.039
live full, happy lives.

912
00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:05.239
Rest in peace, Abby and Jennifer.

913
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:10.039
Abby was a precious little girl. Yeah, I'm sure I

914
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.239
have a hard time in this case with motive.

915
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.159
Yeah, I do too. I mean, it seemed like the

916
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:17.599
only thing we've really talked about related to motive is

917
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:20.320
the fact that he felt like he had to leave

918
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:22.719
the military to help take care of Jennifer because of

919
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:25.440
her health problems. And maybe he resented that, But that

920
00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:28.440
just doesn't seem like a big enough motive, right.

921
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:31.519
He really enjoyed the structure of military life, and I

922
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:35.199
think the military life also gave him It boosted his

923
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:39.719
confidence and he felt important, and I think he didn't

924
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:41.239
find that in civilian life.

925
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:41.679
Yeah.

926
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:45.079
Maybe a couple of Mike's coworkers had mentioned that he

927
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:47.039
seemed a little down at work in the two weeks

928
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:51.400
before Jennifer and Abby's disappearance. Shortly before her death, Jennifer

929
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:54.920
wrote Mike the following letter, Dear Mike, I love you.

930
00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:57.679
I enjoy getting to spend my life with you. We've

931
00:48:57.679 --> 00:49:00.639
had an almost ten years of marriage together. I truly

932
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:02.960
wouldn't have wanted to be with anyone else than you.

933
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:06.760
God just knew, That's all we can say. We didn't,

934
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:09.559
but our Lord did. We don't know what the future

935
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:13.000
holds for us, but I pray it's even better. However,

936
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:17.159
we must live for him. We must crucify ourselves, pick

937
00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:21.079
up our crosses daily, and truly rely on him. Time

938
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:23.800
and needs are earnest. I desire to always be there

939
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.960
for you. However I won't be, but he will always.

940
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:31.239
But until he says otherwise, I'm your beloved wife who

941
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:33.639
adores you. Thank you for being my husband and for

942
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:36.840
loving me. So that letter tells me that I think

943
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:38.440
Jennifer was happy in our marriage.

944
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:40.320
It kind of seems that way. And that is related

945
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:42.360
to a question I was going to ask. We haven't

946
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.079
talked about any affairs or anything like that. We know

947
00:49:45.280 --> 00:49:47.360
for sure he was not having an affair.

948
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:49.880
I don't believe there's any proof at all that he

949
00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:51.800
was having an affair other than remember he would go

950
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:57.960
to Eda's lunch hour, he went to see a massage therapist,

951
00:49:58.039 --> 00:49:59.320
and then he asked for a happy ending.

952
00:49:59.440 --> 00:49:59.639
Yeah.

953
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:02.400
Yeah. A lot of the cases that we've recently covered

954
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:06.519
involved religion and men and women that are very religious

955
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:11.239
and it's important an important piece of their marriage. And

956
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:15.320
reading Jennifer's ladder there clearly God was an important part

957
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:16.320
of their marriage.

958
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:16.599
Yeah.

959
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:18.400
Do you think that that could have been too much

960
00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:18.880
for Mike?

961
00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:22.199
You mean that like he felt too much pressure to

962
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:22.840
be had.

963
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:25.960
To be good all the time. Yeah, And remember early

964
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:29.960
on he did drink and party and Jennifer kind of

965
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:32.599
warned him, like, you know, if you keep this behavior up,

966
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:34.760
I might leave you, I think, and maybe that could

967
00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:37.599
be a possible motive that he just struggled with being

968
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:38.800
so good all the time.

969
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.320
I think it's a really valid point to make. I

970
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:45.000
think that most people, whether you're religious or not, recognize

971
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:47.920
that they are flawed, right, that they're going to make mistakes,

972
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:50.400
they're going to sin if they think of it in

973
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:53.920
that context. And I think, you know, religion allows for

974
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:56.519
that right that if you sin, you can confess, you

975
00:50:56.559 --> 00:50:59.679
can be forgiven and all that. But maybe Mike just

976
00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:02.039
put so much pressure on himself that he felt like

977
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.239
he had to be perfect, and maybe he repressed things,

978
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:08.440
and maybe that caused him to act out in a

979
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:09.559
violent way. I don't know.

980
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:14.280
I didn't read Jennifer's journal entries, but she was very

981
00:51:14.320 --> 00:51:17.920
hard on herself. She blamed herself for any problems in

982
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:21.559
their marriage or whatever was, and she always was asking

983
00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:24.400
God for forgiveness and repentance, and it seemed like she

984
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:28.000
was a little tortured. Yeah, and that made me feel

985
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:30.880
really bad when you know, when I read those entries, right.

986
00:51:31.800 --> 00:51:34.079
Do you think that Mike's porn addiction played into this

987
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:37.159
at all? And should it have been used as evidence

988
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:37.679
in the trial?

989
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:40.400
I mean, I think yes, it was valid evidence for

990
00:51:40.440 --> 00:51:45.199
the trial because the prosecution's theory was that that contributed

991
00:51:45.239 --> 00:51:48.239
to what he ended up doing to Jennifer and Abby.

992
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:50.880
I mean, one of the theories is that Jennifer walked

993
00:51:50.920 --> 00:51:54.480
in on Mike watching porn and she got angry and

994
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:55.719
that's what caused the argument.

995
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:58.960
Right, But didn't you say that he hadn't really watched

996
00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:01.119
any porn after it in the month or so.

997
00:52:01.159 --> 00:52:03.559
Before, unless he found like a way to do it

998
00:52:04.039 --> 00:52:07.599
privately or talking videos or you know, instead of things

999
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:10.000
on the internet, he could have had physical videos or something.

1000
00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:10.400
Right?

1001
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:14.000
Do you think porn is a precursor for abusive relationships?

1002
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:17.719
So I did read that there was some correlation between

1003
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:22.039
watching like violent porn or porn of a certain type.

1004
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:24.159
Right, there's a whole spectrum of porn.

1005
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.000
Yeah, exactly. I did read that there was some correlation there.

1006
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.920
But it's important to know that correlation does not equate

1007
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:34.679
to causation. For example, I happen to know this random

1008
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:38.119
fact that the number of movies that Nicholas Cage makes

1009
00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:40.960
every year correlates to the number of people that die

1010
00:52:40.960 --> 00:52:44.880
in swimming pools every year. That does not mean that

1011
00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:48.159
if Nicholas Cage stopped making movies, fewer people would die

1012
00:52:48.199 --> 00:52:49.000
in swimming pools.

1013
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.760
It's a very, very correlation. I guess you've mentioned.

1014
00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:55.679
I used to use that in my work because it's

1015
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:58.559
it is important to know that two things can be correlated,

1016
00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:01.440
but doesn't necessarily mean that one causes the other. So

1017
00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:07.400
the fact that somebody watches porn may correlate to being

1018
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.000
abusive in relationship, but it doesn't necessarily have a cause

1019
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:11.760
and effect relationship.

1020
00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:14.719
I think when we're talking about porn, we're meaning like,

1021
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.360
very mild porn, not you know, there's some porn that

1022
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:21.079
I'm sure you know is showing abuse.

1023
00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:23.719
Yeah, like you said, there is a broad spectrum.

1024
00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:25.280
Yeah, let's move on.

1025
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:26.760
Okay.

1026
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:30.320
Why do you think that Mike chose to kill Abby?

1027
00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:33.840
I don't know. I mean, that's really just so sad

1028
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:35.800
and unnecessary, and.

1029
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:39.079
It breaks my heart every time, Like I just can't imagine.

1030
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:41.760
Yeah, you don't think there's any chance that Abby is

1031
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:43.960
still alive to you? I mean, it doesn't seem like it.

1032
00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:49.039
But rationally no. But I yes, I hope she's alive somewhere. Yeah,

1033
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:53.239
it's so heartbreaking to think that had the land Philip

1034
00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:57.360
and searched, you know, weeks or days after their disappearance,

1035
00:53:57.519 --> 00:53:58.719
that she could have been found.

1036
00:53:58.800 --> 00:54:00.960
Yeah, it would have been nice to have some closure.

1037
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:04.000
At least it must haunt all of those poor officers

1038
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:08.360
they had to do that search, and obviously Jennifer and

1039
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:12.559
Abbey's family, Right, what evidence did you find most damning

1040
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:13.119
in the case?

1041
00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.159
To me, the most damning evidence was the fact that

1042
00:54:16.199 --> 00:54:19.159
her body was found near the Amtech stuff, because I

1043
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:23.199
think that pretty much links Mike to the crime. I mean,

1044
00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:26.119
obviously could have linked somebody else at Amateech, but you know,

1045
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:29.719
that doesn't make any sense really, And ultimately, I just

1046
00:54:29.719 --> 00:54:32.639
feel like he is the only one who had the means,

1047
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:35.119
the motive, and the opportunity, even if the motive was

1048
00:54:35.159 --> 00:54:38.159
a little bit weak and questionable. There's nobody else that

1049
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:39.679
this would make sense for me.

1050
00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:43.199
The email that he printed out at work minutes before

1051
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:45.400
he went home, I had forgotten and then tried to

1052
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:47.360
palm that off as Oh yeah, no, I gave that

1053
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:49.679
to her days and days ago, But it was folded

1054
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:51.679
up with her the contents of her purse.

1055
00:54:52.039 --> 00:54:53.840
Yeah, that is pretty damning as well.

1056
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:56.639
I read two books for this case, Taken from Home,

1057
00:54:56.719 --> 00:54:59.599
A Father, A Dark Secret, and a Brutal Murder by

1058
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:02.440
Eric Francis and Killer Dad.

1059
00:55:02.719 --> 00:55:05.039
By Robert Scott, Good Books.

1060
00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:08.679
I believe I prefer the Eric Francis book. The facts

1061
00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:13.000
just seemed a little more factual. Okay, some of these

1062
00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:15.440
books seem like they're rushed to print a little bit.

1063
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:18.519
We've talked about a lot of the time. Yeah, like

1064
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:20.159
the timelines don't add up.

1065
00:55:20.360 --> 00:55:23.039
Yeah, just some facts are just not quite.

1066
00:55:23.079 --> 00:55:27.079
Or they're not edited maybe as good as they could be. Yeah,

1067
00:55:27.159 --> 00:55:30.559
so yes, the Taken from Home, A Father, A Dark Secret,

1068
00:55:30.599 --> 00:55:34.000
and a Brutal Murder definitely seemed like it was sharper.

1069
00:55:40.599 --> 00:55:42.840
If you're a regular listener of Love Mary Kill, you

1070
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:45.519
know that every month we donate at least twenty five

1071
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:48.800
percent of our earnings from advertising and from our patron

1072
00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:53.159
program to a worthwhile cause. And because September is National

1073
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:56.480
Suicide Prevention Month, our donation for this month goes to

1074
00:55:56.639 --> 00:56:01.400
the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. Health and suicide prevention

1075
00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:04.480
are causes that we hold close to our hearts. Globally,

1076
00:56:04.519 --> 00:56:07.639
between seven hundred thousand and eight hundred thousand people lose

1077
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:10.599
their lives to suicide each year, with around fifty thousand

1078
00:56:10.679 --> 00:56:13.199
in the US alone. So we feel like this is

1079
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:16.039
a really important cause and we want to thank all

1080
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:18.280
of you who are listening because we could not do

1081
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:19.679
this without you, so thank you.

1082
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:24.119
We appreciate your support so much. When we started recording,

1083
00:56:24.199 --> 00:56:26.679
I asked you, are you wearing a new shirt? And

1084
00:56:26.719 --> 00:56:27.440
what did you say?

1085
00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:32.239
I said it might be I don't know which costs, but.

1086
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:35.000
I have really good news for you. Yeah, So, listeners,

1087
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:38.000
Rich has a uniform that he wears. He has like

1088
00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:43.159
a summer uniform and like a fall winterform I do.

1089
00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:45.719
Do you want to talk about what your different uniforms are.

1090
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:48.000
Well, my summer uniform is shorts and a T.

1091
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:51.440
Shirt right, usually like a V neck T shirt.

1092
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:53.519
Right, usually a V neck T shirt if there is a.

1093
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:56.119
Too low though, if there's no chains involved.

1094
00:56:56.360 --> 00:56:58.719
Now, if there's an important game on, I will wear

1095
00:56:58.760 --> 00:57:02.440
a logo wear for or whatever the supporting the team

1096
00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:05.559
is that I'm supporting. In the fall and winter, my

1097
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:09.599
uniform is blue jeans and a like a half zip

1098
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:11.559
sweater or sweatshirt.

1099
00:57:11.360 --> 00:57:15.199
And today you it's today's a hard day. We're in

1100
00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:18.440
the hard time of year where you have to very

1101
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:20.440
chilly in the morning at least twice.

1102
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:21.039
Yeah.

1103
00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:23.199
Yeah, today, I think the high is going to be seventy.

1104
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:24.880
You have an M on your shirt.

1105
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:26.440
I have a Michigan sweatshirt.

1106
00:57:26.599 --> 00:57:27.559
Is game on?

1107
00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:29.559
There's a Michigan game, but there's also a Tiger's game,

1108
00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:31.360
so it's a it's a tough you have to.

1109
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:32.960
Really dress layers.

1110
00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:33.679
Yeah.

1111
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:37.079
So the thing I wanted to tell you is good news. Okay,

1112
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:41.199
because half zips are all the rage right now, are they? Yeah?

1113
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:41.440
Oh?

1114
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:41.719
Good?

1115
00:57:41.960 --> 00:57:47.400
So I think that you probably single handedly reinvigorated the

1116
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:48.400
half zip market.

1117
00:57:48.760 --> 00:57:50.159
I think you must be right.

1118
00:57:50.320 --> 00:57:52.360
Every the other day I was, actually, where are you

1119
00:57:52.519 --> 00:57:55.760
new one? Did you complimented me on it?

1120
00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:56.320
I did?

1121
00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:58.800
You said I really like your shirt, and I said

1122
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:04.760
you inspired me. I listener, I am not exaggerating when

1123
00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:07.400
we say that rich. I mean you literally every day

1124
00:58:07.400 --> 00:58:09.559
of the winter where half sip. And then when I

1125
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:11.320
say sometimes like well, what do you want for Christmas?

1126
00:58:11.599 --> 00:58:13.039
I could use a couple of your half SIPs.

1127
00:58:13.800 --> 00:58:16.480
It's easy thing and it's been a long time I've

1128
00:58:16.480 --> 00:58:17.920
been wearing them for a long time, and I've been

1129
00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:21.199
waiting for them to come back into style, and so I'm.

1130
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:23.000
Glad they ever went out of style. And you always

1131
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:23.960
look very nice.

1132
00:58:24.280 --> 00:58:26.639
I like the way they feel, I like the way

1133
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:27.000
they look.

1134
00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:30.760
It kind of for like some women might know what

1135
00:58:30.800 --> 00:58:32.760
I mean, But it just made life easier when I

1136
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:34.159
was like, all right, I can live with that.

1137
00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:38.559
I'm glad I can help make your life easier.

1138
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:40.840
But you do wear a hoodie once in a while too,

1139
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:43.039
so it's not exclusively like.

1140
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:44.639
To go a little crazy once in a while and

1141
00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:45.480
get out of the box.

1142
00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:49.760
Right is October, It is spooky season, and you are

1143
00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:53.719
somewhat of a horror film. I don't know, buff would

1144
00:58:53.719 --> 00:58:55.159
you say fan? Sure?

1145
00:58:55.400 --> 00:58:56.079
For sure? Yeah?

1146
00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:57.840
Do you want to give the listeners a couple of

1147
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:00.639
movies that you really like recommend?

1148
00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:03.320
Sure? So a couple just that are top of mind

1149
00:59:03.400 --> 00:59:07.480
right now for me. One is Salem's Lot, only because

1150
00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:09.679
there's a new movie out which we haven't watched yet,

1151
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:14.559
but the original Salem's Lot with David Soul from Starsky

1152
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:17.840
and Hutch is really you old Rich, I am old,

1153
00:59:18.039 --> 00:59:20.679
but it is really a good movie, is really terrifying

1154
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:23.880
and then the other one is also top of mind

1155
00:59:24.039 --> 00:59:27.159
is No Sparatu because there have been a few versions made,

1156
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:28.760
and I think I heard that there was a new

1157
00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:30.679
one coming out. I don't know if it's out yet

1158
00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:33.920
or if it's coming soon, but the No Sperado version

1159
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:36.880
that was made in I don't know, the seventies, I

1160
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:41.440
think Okay with klaus Kinski is a really scary movie.

1161
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:43.920
If you're into vampire movies, super scary.

1162
00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:47.159
So you're not saying like Nightmare on Elm Street or

1163
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:48.760
Friday the Thirteenth like those.

1164
00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:52.079
I'm not as big into kind of your traditional slasher movies.

1165
00:59:52.239 --> 00:59:55.639
I like them, I don't dislike them. I think like Halloween.

1166
00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:57.239
The original Halloween is really.

1167
00:59:57.079 --> 01:00:00.280
A classic, but you used to watch that every Halloween. Yeah.

1168
01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:02.079
Yeah, But those are the two. They're just top of

1169
01:00:02.119 --> 01:00:04.639
mind right now because I've heard news about them.

1170
01:00:04.920 --> 01:00:07.280
Off the top of my head. I'm going to recommend

1171
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:09.440
The Great Pumpkin.

1172
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:11.840
Charlie Oh so scary.

1173
01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:17.800
I like a scary movie. But Midsummer, Oh, Midsummer is

1174
01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:19.840
pretty good. Some people hate it, but I thought it was.

1175
01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:21.440
I thought it was super creepy.

1176
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:25.719
I thought I was really creepy, and it was really like, well, like,

1177
01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:30.800
the cinematography is really good. Black Phone I like and

1178
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:32.960
Not at the Cabin.

1179
01:00:33.320 --> 01:00:35.079
Yes, not at the Cabin. I thought it was very

1180
01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:35.719
well done.

1181
01:00:35.960 --> 01:00:38.559
There's one movie that has stuck with me forever and

1182
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:41.519
ever saw it like a long time ago, and you're

1183
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:42.679
not allowed to talk about it.

1184
01:00:42.760 --> 01:00:43.840
Oh you mean candy Man.

1185
01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:47.000
Shut up? But we did watch it last Halloween, I think,

1186
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:48.480
with our kids, and I was like, you know what,

1187
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:51.480
it's not shut up. You can't see it again. Don't

1188
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:54.079
see it again. We're bad things are going to happen. Okay,

1189
01:00:55.199 --> 01:00:58.119
But I didn't think it was as scary as scary

1190
01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:00.320
the second time around, and wasn't it really made? And

1191
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:01.400
we watched the remake too.

1192
01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:04.000
I don't remember if it was a sequel or a remake,

1193
01:01:04.039 --> 01:01:04.840
but yes it was.

1194
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:07.679
And get Out. I love get Out, get Out get

1195
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:10.719
Out like Super Scared, but Jordan Peel's first movie. I

1196
01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:13.480
think it's beast movie. If you guys have a suggestion

1197
01:01:13.679 --> 01:01:14.400
for us, let.

1198
01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:16.960
Us know, Yes, definitely, let us know. Send us an

1199
01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:20.480
email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com with your horror

1200
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:24.639
movie recommendations or with any feedback or comments case recommendations.

1201
01:01:24.679 --> 01:01:28.800
Snack recommendations, Yeah, leave us a five star review, and

1202
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:31.159
until next time, don't kill your husband and don't kill

1203
01:01:31.159 --> 01:02:10.800
your wife.

1204
01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:21.480
Further investigation revealed that Mike got to work I November thirty.

1205
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:25.320
He told me to gesture in a little cardio