Jennifer and Sarah Hart

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Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
it's that some days you'll feel like killing

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your wife, and some days you'll
feel like killing your husband. Welcome to

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love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina. How are you.

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I'm doing pretty good. How are
you? I am pretty grumpy today,

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but I'm going to fake it till
I make it. I can't imagine why.

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Why are you so grumpy? I'm
just kind of overwhelmed with the state

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of the world, and I don't
know, everything has just been getting to

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me. We had this horrible shooting
last night in Maine, and you know,

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everything that's going on in the Middle
East. I don't want to get

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anyone else depressed, but it's just
really been bothering me. I think I'm

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I like to pretend that I'm tough, but I'm actually very sensitive and I'm

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kind of a little struggle just a
little bit. Yeah, I know you

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are, and I know there's a
lot of bad stuff going on in the

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world, for sure. Yeah,
and I've got a horrible, horrible story

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to tell you today. And I
think that's actually another reason that I've been

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struggling a little bit. This case
is one that I've wanted to tell since

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I started it last October, but
I was like, I just wasn't ready

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and I'm still not ready, but
it's an important story to tell you.

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Yeah, well, I'm looking forward
to it, but we haven't. We

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haven't recorded in a while because you
were so efficient before we left on our

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trip. So yeah, not since
our vacation. Really yeah, let's just

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briefly. I know people have a
short attention span to listen to other people's

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vacation, but it is kind of
pertinent to the podcast. We did do

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some true crime stuff on our vacation. Well, you made it sound like

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we wrote here sleuthor solved crime.
We solved the Scranton strangler mystery. No,

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we did. We did go see
Lizzie Bordon. Yeah, well we

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didn't see Lizzie Bordon. No,
but we saw her house that she grew

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up in, and we saw the
house on the hill, the fancy house,

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and we saw her grave and her
family's grave. And I know everyone's

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probably number one question is were you
scared? Did you feel anything? And

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my short answer is no. I
thought everyone's number one question would be why

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did you do that. Well,
we said we were going to. I

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really didn't want to, and it
was actually really cool. I normally stuff

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like that I wouldn't be that into, but it was. It was actually

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really interesting, and it was more
interesting because of you know, because of

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you doing the episode on lizen Board
in quite a while ago, so I

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knew a little bit more about it
than probably if you aren't a true crime

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person, I wouldn't recommend it.
But if you did a long podcast episode

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on Lizzieboard, you'd probably really into
it. Yeah. I thought it was

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really cool and what we I didn't
know. It was kind of pricey.

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Me it was like forty dollars a
person. And I thought we were just

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going to get to see the house. But this fella sat down and told

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us the story. It is a
great story. He was a really good

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storyteller, and we you know,
we we started in the living room and

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then we went to the dining room, and then we went up to the

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the room where Abby was killed.
And it was I thought it was it

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was pretty interesting. That was We
also went to Salem. We did go

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to Salem. Uh it was it's
cheesy, but yeah, I had a

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good time. Yeah, it was
fun, and we went to Boston.

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We did the Freedom Trail and we
saw Niagara Falls from the Canada side,

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which we had never seen. Was
stunning, which obviously it's stunning. Went

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to the Frank Lloyd Right Falling Well, we did. Yeah, that was

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amazing too, And we stayed in
the Oh. I love that little airbnb

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so much. I love I love
like a good air and Airbnb. A

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lot of them have been taken over
kind of yb you don't mean the last

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one, the one that we stayed
in. That was actually pretty funny.

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That one could have been the home
of a serial killer. Very possible.

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That was pretty funny because if you've
ever been to that area in Pennsylvania,

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mill and it's very remote, Yes, very very remote. We didn't download

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our directions because you just don't really
have to do that anymore. We lost

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our GPS signal. We had no
idea where we were. Really it was

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Friday in the thirteen. It was
was just baffled my way and I had

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seen picked. They're not a lot
of options for airbnb's out there, but

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I found this place. I'm like, and I am I'm I'm picky,

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but I was like, it's good
enough, you know, And so I

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just booked it. It wasn't super
expensive and it was like ten minutes away

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from Falling Water. And like I
said, we got lost. And then

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we get there and the caretaker lives
there, like not in the little cottage

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that we were in, but that's
always creepy. Yeah, and it was.

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It was getting dark when we got
there, and the house is like

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down the hill near the woods,
and it's sort of like hard to find.

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It was really hard to yeah,
yeah, if you're in the right

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place or not. And then there
was nothing in the cabin that was newer

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than nineteen eighty. And I'm not
exaggerating, right, Actually I am exaggering

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a little because there were some VHS
tapes that were a little a little newer.

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There were some DVDs. But it
was it was fun and really we

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were we were actually a little scared
because you'd have to see the cabin.

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But it was it was nice and
it had everything we needed. But it

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was just like creepy grandma's house.
It was definitely like the type of place

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you might see in a horror movie. Oh for sure. Yeah, we

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survived. We had fun. Yeah, and then we came home and and

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we actually were heading out to Marquette
this weekend to see our son. We

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have not seen since August. It's
crazy, yeah, crazy, And we've

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talked to him like twice much.
We talked to him a little bit,

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but he's a busy guy. And
uh, well, yeah, so we're

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gonna go to Marquette, which is
seven is sh hours away? Yeah,

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long, another long drive. So
anyway, speaking to our son, I

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made him some cookies and I get
to have one too, and I made

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Yeah, so this is going to
be your snack for the day. And

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you know you heard me swearing in
the kitchen when I dropped you dropped them

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all? Oh I didn't drop them
all, but I dropped more of them

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than I would have liked. Yeah, so, uh, black and white

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cookie. It looks delicious. Ye, it's one of his favorites. And

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I well it's one of your use. I love all the cookies. Really

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all right, you want to take
a quick break, Yeah, sure,

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right back. Well, as always, that was delicious, thank you.

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Well, someone who's listening doesn't know
what a black and white cookie is.

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It's pretty much just a short bread
cookie and half of it is chocolate and

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frosted with chocolate and half is frosted
with vanilla frosting. Yeah. Is it

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made famous by some bakery somewhere or
something? Or is it I think it's

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a New York Deli thing, but
I could totally be wrong. Yeah.

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All very good? All right,
So today's episode is a hard one.

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It involves children and abuse, and
while it's not particularly graphic, I do

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want to give a content warning.
Please listen with care. The drive along

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Highway one and Northern California is breathtaking. The road tightly hugs the coastline,

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creating a myriad of twists and turns. The road curves along the terrain,

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with the Pacific Ocean lapping the rocky
beaches below. The air is crisp and

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clean, with a vista that will
never cease to captivate you. Guardrails line

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much of the highway, but there
are stretches where the view is unencumbered.

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The drop to the ocean and cliffs
below is steep. On March twenty sixth,

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twenty eighteen, a German woman who
was visiting Northern California noticed an unusual

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sight when she stopped at a scenic
turnout along the highway about two hundred miles

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north of San Francisco in Mendocino County, at the bottom of a one hundred

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and forty foot cliff along the Pacific
Ocean, she spotted a crumpled and overturned

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two thousand and three GMC Yukon Excel
on the rocky beach below. She called

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nine one one. Emergency responders arrived
minutes later at four forty five PM,

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then repelled to the bottom of the
cliffs and found five bodies among the wreckage.

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Oh my gosh. Jennifer and Sarah
Hart, both thirty eight, were

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found in the partially submerged, overturned
vehicle. Jen was in the driver's seat

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and her wife, Sarah was in
the back of the vehicle, pinned between

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the collapsed roof and the seats.
Three of their six children, Marcus nineteen,

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Abigail and Jeremiah, both fourteen,
were thrown from the vehicle and found

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nearby. The three other Hart children
were missing, Hannah sixteen, Davante fifteen,

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and Sierra twelve. No one was
wearing a seat belt. When the

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vehicle's computer was later analyzed, it
indicated the Yukon pulled off of Highway One

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into the scenic turnout which lacked a
guard rail. Jen stopped for a moment

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before she floored the gas pedal.
The Yukon only traveled seventy feet and reached

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the speed of twenty miles per hour
before it floated off into the abyss and

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crashed at the bottom of the cliffs
over one hundred feet below. Was this

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a terrible action or a planned murder? Gosh, I don't know. Whatever

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it is, it's horrible, I
know. I'm sorry. It's a sad

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story. Jennifer Hart and Sarah Gngler
were both born in nineteen seventy nine in

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South Dakota, about one hundred and
fifty miles from each other. Jen was

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the oldest of three children and Sarah
was the oldest of four. They both

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grew up in small, nearly all
white towns. They met and fell in

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love in nineteen eighty nine at age
twenty, while studying at Northern State University

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in Aberdeen, South Dakota, where
they both were education majors, Sarah specializing

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in special education. She graduated in
two thousand and two with a four point

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zero GPA, but Jen dropped out
after Sarah's graduation a semester. Shy from

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graduation They shared a love of the
outdoors, spending their free time hiking,

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camping, kayaking, and attending Bohemian
music festivals. Sarah was engaged for a

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time after high school, but broke
it off before college. Jen and Sarah

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introduced each other as friends or roommates. They were a couple, but very

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discreet. However, later when they
moved to Minnesota, they lived openly as

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a couple. They were both estranged
from their families after their deaths. The

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family said their estrangement had nothing to
do with Jen and Sarah's sexual orientation,

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but after they'd voiced concerns over the
heart's parenting style, they severed ties.

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A relative of Jen said she often
erupted at the children, quote, the

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kids couldn't do anything without getting into
trouble. If the kids did anything she

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thought was wrong, she would snap
her fingers and say get in the corner.

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No food for you. Jen wouldn't
have anything to do with you if

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you disagreed with her end quote.
Sarah and her mother had once been very

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close, but after Sarah and Jen
became a couple, she felt that Jen

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made Sarah choose between her and her
family. In two thousand and five,

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Sarah legally changed her last name to
Heart. They married in two thousand and

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nine in Connecticut. Same sex marriage
wasn't yet legal in Minnesota, where they

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lived with all six of their adopted
children present. I know, I'm kind

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of getting ahead of myself with the
kids. We're going to circle back to

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the adoption. Jen was outgoing and
friendly, but also assertive and controlling,

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especially with Sarah and the children.
She was the rebel of the two.

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In college, she'd been arrested for
shoplifting. Sarah was more reserved, passive,

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and introverted. In two thousand and
four, Jen and Sarah moved to

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Alexandria, Minnesota, where they both
worked at a store called her Burgers.

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Her Burgers. I did say that
very real her Burgers, which I was

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like researching it, just really quick. And Burgners where I grew up,

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that was an offshoot of her Burgers, and my mom actually worked at Burgners.

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So interesting. Yeah, I think
they are a lot of business.

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It's weird how many department store chains
have gone out of business. Sarah was

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a manager and Jen worked in the
junior's department. They were in their mid

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twenties when they applied to become foster
parents, a fifteen year old girl came

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to live with them. Friends recalled
the couple being challenged by parenting an older

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child. I mean, of course
they were. Jen complained to a friend

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that the girl ate out of the
garbage, wasn't very smart, wouldn't do

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a homework, and was hard to
discipline. Jen and Sarah started the process

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of adoption shortly after. They told
their foster daughter that she was going to

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be a big sister, and she
was very excited. It's unclear how long

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she lived with Sarah and Jen.
I think about a year and a half.

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But one day they dropped her off
at her therapist's office and never returned.

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She was reassigned to a new foster
home with no explanation from Jen and

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Sarah. They never said goodbye.
Wow. She felt pardon, that's kind

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of cold. It was horrible.
She felt abandoned and devastated. She never

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had contact with them again. Gratefully, her next foster family, a youth

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pastor and his wife, welcomed her
with open arms. Jen and Sarah told

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their foster daughter's caseworker that they had
found a suicide note and a noose under

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her bed, and they couldn't have
someone mentally unstable around their newly adopted children,

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so they needed to sever ties with
her. And that wasn't true,

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the foster daughter said. Jen and
Sarah lied. She'd never been suicidal and

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definitely never ate food from the trash. And if it was true, there's

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no reason to abandon your foster child
without even saying goodbye or you know well,

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and I think you know. Gen
and Sarah at this time were about

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twenty five, and they were a
little immature. Yeah, weren't ready to

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be parents, especially to a fifteen
year old. In an interview with The

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Seattle Times, the Heart's former foster
daughter, who was chosen to remain anonymous,

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said the first six months were good
with Gen and Sarah. There was

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no abuse or withholding of food.
They exposed her to new adventures, such

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as camping and the music festivals they
loved. As time passed, Jen became

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moodier and often with Drue, choosing
to spend time alone. They began arguing

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more typical parent teenager issues. The
foster daughter worked at Subway during high school

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and was required to turn her paychecks
over to Gen, given only a small

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allowance. Today, though she's doing
well, and she has a child of

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her own. She has a relationship
with both her birth mother as well as

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her former foster parents. She forgives
the hearts and she doesn't believe that they

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were capable of killing their children.
So a week after abandoning their foster daughter,

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in September two thousand and six,
Jen and Sarah welcomed Marcus seven,

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Hannah four, and Abigail two from
Texas. The children's birth mother had several

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mental health issues and little outside support
after several difficult interactions with CPS Child Protective

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Services exactly, so, there's several
states in this story, and I refer

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to I know that some states it's
DCFS, but I'm going to just refer

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to it as CPS Child Protective Services. So she relinquished her parental rights,

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hoping her children would have a better
life. She had hoped for an open

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adoption and to be able to see
her children. She was shocked when her

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children were sent to live in Minnesota, thousand of miles away. She sunk

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into a deep depression when she wasn't
able to receive any updates on Marcus,

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Hannah, and Abigail. Here's an
excerpt from Jen's Facebook post describing the first

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twenty four hours of the heart's adoption
journey. It was unforgettable in all the

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ways we weren't expecting. We had
no idea what challenges we would be facing

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in the coming months and years.
I can't even begin to imagine what it

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would be like for a child that
had lived their entire life with inconsistency,

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abuse, and neglect to be swooped
twelve hundred miles away to a new place

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with a promise of this time it
will be different. This is how the

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first twelve hours of motherhood was for
us. The youngest urinated anywhere but the

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bathroom several times and fell down a
flight of stairs, resulting in a bloody

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gash on her chin. The middle
child pulled out chunks of hair and smeared

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feces on the wall, engorged herself
with food until she started choking and needed

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the Heimlich, resulting in episodes of
projectile vomiting. The oldest banged his head

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repetitively on a rock wall until we
were able to safely restrain him. Blood

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was involved. This was a result
of not giving him a king sized tutsi

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roll that he requested At nine p
m. It took hours to calm him

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and get him to a place where
we could leave him in his room to

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sleep. We were physically and mentally
obliterated by this time. We went to

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bed absolutely terrified as a million thoughts
ran through our minds. As we drifted

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off to sleep, we were abruptly
reminded that our day was far from over.

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Loud crashes, banging, in strange
sounds, slash voices from above us

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resulted in us sprinting upstairs to find
the eldest in a closet. He told

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us he was possessed by demons as
he growled, clad, and spoke in

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multiple voices while continuing to thrash,
bite, and bang his head on the

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wall. My heart was breaking as
I was terrified. I was terrified for

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him, and it would be disingenuous
if I didn't admit I was afraid of

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what he could do to the others
as well. Hours passed before we were

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able to get him to sleep.
That night, just when it seemed like

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we could breathe again, the youngest
had an asthma attack and stopped breathing.

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A one am er visit followed.
I didn't sleep at all for the first

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forty eight hours of parenthood. I
cried a lot. What had we done?

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We had no experience with these kinds
of things. We questioned everything.

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When the social worker called to check
in after the first night, we related

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everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Her response,

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just give them whatever they want.
We were dumbfounded. That's it, that's

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the golden advice, and that moment
I knew what to do. We could

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not give up on these kids.
Before we were matched with these children,

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they were going to be separated and
adopted into two different families, with the

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oldest placed and a residential treatment facility. How can a child even know what

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they want when they haven't even been
gifted with what they need? If not

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us, who at twenty five years
old? We didn't have any parenting experience

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under our belts, but we had
boltloads of blood of compassion, intelligence,

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and the natural instincts to navigate these
wild and unchartered waters. There was no

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way on earth we were going to
toss these children back into the incredibly broken

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and abysmal foster care system. It
was long. I just I'm not sure

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how much of it I believe,
especially when you said the social workers said,

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just give them whatever they want.
I have a very hard time believing

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one of four year old sumearing feces
on a wall. Yeah, and the

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kids, as far as we know, weren't developmentally delayed, and if they

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were, it was slight, slight
delays. Two years later, in February

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two thousand and nine, the Hart
family expanded when they adopted Davante five,

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Jeremiah four, and Sierra three,
also from Texas. The state of Texas

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gives adoptees a monthly cash stipend for
each child adopted from the foster care system,

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as much as five hundred dollars per
child, in addition to SSI Supplemental

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Security Income if the child has been
she needs. The Hearts likely received the

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SSI benefits for at least two of
the children. The money from Texas made

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up about fifty percent of the Heart's
income. Wow, I know, I

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didn't know that was a thing for
her. Very surprised after the children,

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but I think it's because they pulled
them out of the foster system and adopted

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them Before DeVante, Jeremiah, and
Sierra went to Minnesota to live with Jen

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and Sarah. The children had been
living with their aunt Priscilla Celestine, their

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father's sister. Priscilla Celestine was a
good and loving caregiver, a faithful churchgoer

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with a steady job. She really
wanted the children to be in her care

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so they could be around family and
not be separated. She loved them deeply.

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Foster parents are given a monthly stipe
stipend for living cost and medical care,

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but if the foster parent is a
relative, they're not qualified to receive

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any money. Priscilla's finances were stretched
thin to keep the children. She needed

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to move from her two bedroom apartment
to a four bedroom home. The children's

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mother, Sherry, struggled with crack
cocaine addiction. Jeremiah tested positive for cocaine

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at birth, and Cherry tested positive
for cocaine at Sierra's birth, so the

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second and third children. In order
for Priscilla to be able to adopt the

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children, Sherry was required to relinquish
her parental rights and was forbid from seeing

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the children. She agreed in order
to prevent them from entering the foster care

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system or to be adopted by another
family, or possibly become separated. Priscilla

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desperate for childcare when she was called
to work an extra shift one day asked

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Sherry if she could come stay with
the children. Sherry maintained her sobriety over

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long periods of times, and this
was one of those times. CPS happened

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to show up that day for an
impromptu visit. The children were immediately taken

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away from Priscilla, no second chance
chances. There was no evidence that Sherry

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had been using drugs during her visit, but she just Priscilla fodtheart to regain

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custody, but the children were sent
to Minnesota despite her best efforts. Priscilla

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was devastated. And to me,
that's just you know, she had one

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chance. Yeah, and the children, I mean there were, you know,

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thousands of miles away. Heartbreaking.
She really did love them and she

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wanted she wanted to keep them.
Cherry relapsed after she learned about her children's

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death. She had always hoped to
get them back somehow. But she is

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clean and sober now and has been
for many years. And she went on

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to have former children, and I
think that some of them ended up in

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CPS two. Cherry told the Oregonian
quote, they're so quick to snatch children

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from people like us, but once
they're adopted, they don't even check on

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them. End quote. She hopes
that she can bring her children's bodies back

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to Texas so they can be closer
to her. Davante, Jeremiah, and

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Sierra had another brother, Dante,
who was eight at the time of the

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adoption. He had extreme discipline challenges
and wasn't considered adoptable at the time.

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After he was separated from his siblings, he attempted suicide. An eight year

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old attempting suicides just devastating. Yeah, that's really not horrible. Yeah,

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he was institutionalized in a mental hospital
for a time where he was over medicated

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for a variety of psychological issues by
polar disorder ADHD and oppositional defiant disorder.

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And once a child receives those diagnoses, it's hard to get out of the

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system. It's hard to get out
of the system, and it makes you

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kind of, you know, unadoptable. Yeah. I'm not saying that Dante

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did not have those disorders, but
the person that diagnosed him probably spent an

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00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:51.680
hour with him and gave him that
diagnosis that would follow him for you know,

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the rest of his life. Dante
requested many times to have contact with

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his siblings, but Jen and Sarah
did not allow it. He was placed

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in eleven different FOSS homes until he
aged out of the system. And the

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more placements a child has, the
more unfavorable the outcome. Yeah, I

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can imagine. Dante's file was foury
seven hundred pages long. Very complicated case.

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Sometime in two thousand and nine,
Jen and Sarah decided to expand their

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family again. Sarah used IVF and
got pregnant, but later miscarried. They

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also started the process of adopting twins
from Texas, one with cerebral palsy,

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but it fell through Permanent Family Resource
Center, the agency that Jen and Sarah

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used for their adoptions, had a
history of violations, including a failure to

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properly conduct home studies for pending placements. The agency's license was suspended for two

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years in two thousand and nine and
closed permanently in twenty twelve. We're going

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to take a quick break. We'll
be right back, Okay. So the

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Heart family have now there's now six
of them and their family is complete.

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They're not going to adopt it.
They tried to adopt another. They tried

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to have a one through IVF and
that neither of those worked. Out right,

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and I don't think I've said this. Both Sarah and Jen are white,

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and the six kids are some of
them are black, and some of

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them are of mixed. Okay.
People who knew the Heart Tribe, a

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00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.519
name coined by their friends, were
in awe of the close knit, beautiful

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family. The children exuded joy,
always smiling and well behaved. They thought

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the machinery of their family was well
oiled and ran seamlessly. I showed you

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some pictures of the kids last night, do you remember. Yeah, they

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00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:42.960
looked like a lovely family. There's
beautiful children. Yeah, yeah, the

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00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.200
pictures you showed me. Everyone looked
happy and it looked like a really like

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00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.640
a perfect family. Here's a brief
clip of a friend talking about the family.

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Before I actually met the Hearts,
I heard about these these kids that

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would come to these festivals that I
attend, people mentioning like, oh,

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you know the Heart kids. They
give free hugs. I heard, Oh,

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00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:18.039
these two brave lesbian women went against
all odds and adopted numerous children and

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are giving them this unprecedented life.
Really that no child is so lucky to

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have. These kids were just pure
joy. All they could do is just

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00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:33.960
smile. From ear to ear.
They were always like propped up on people's

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shoulders, dancing in the crowd.
The memories of that are so sweet.

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00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:48.440
They were a unit. Jins seemed
to be leading the most exceptional life.

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00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:57.799
This super mom, this champion of
racial reconciliation, willing to sacrifice herself for

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the greater good of these beautiful children. We all felt like we were along

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for the ride. Are you at
all familiar with these music festivals. They're

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00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.319
like days long festivals where people are
doing like dancing in yoga and it's just

356
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:21.640
a very spiritual kind of I'm familiar
with like Lollapalooza music festival like that,

357
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.279
but this sounds like a little bit
different. Yeah, one of them is

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00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:27.720
called the Beloved Festival. But people
travel around and go to these different festivals.

359
00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:32.440
Okay, a little more spiritual in
nature, I guess definitely. Jen

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00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:36.720
and Sarah wanted their children to be
socially conscious and attended many Black Lives Matter

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00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:41.400
protests and Bernie Sanders rallies as well
as the musical music festivals. One such

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00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:47.640
music festival was called the Beloved Festival. Attendees gathered off and wearing costumes to

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share their love of music, art, yoga, and culture. The Heart

364
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:56.160
tribe would show up wearing costumes,
matching shirts or jean jackets. Often Sarah

365
00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:00.519
would have to stay home and work. She worked long hours to support the

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family, usually six days a week. Friends thought they were the perfect family.

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However, it was rare that anyone
was invited to the Heart Home to

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observe their home life. No one
knew what was happening behind the closed doors.

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In two thousand and eight, Hannah, aged six, was found to

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have bruising on her arm by her
teacher. When the teacher asked her what

371
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happened, she said she had been
beaten with the belt. No charges were

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00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:30.319
filed. The mothers told CPS that
Hannah had fallen down the stairs. Jen

373
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and Sarah removed the children from school
until the next fall. The adoption of

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00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:41.039
DeVante, Jeremiah and Sarah was finalized
quickly despite the child abuse claim. Oh

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00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:47.200
wow, doesn't seem right. No, and I guess I didn't really specify

376
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:49.200
this, but when they went to
live with them, there's like a six

377
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:53.839
month waiting period before the adoption was
finalized, and this claim happened in that

378
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:57.960
six months, though it should have
been investigated much more thoroughly than it was.

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Twenty eleven, six complaints were filed
with Minnesota CPS against Sarah and Jen

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for physical abuse and withholding food from
their children. Abby six, was very

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small for her age, the size
of a two year old. She was

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00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.960
seen rummaging through the trash at school
looking for food. On several occasions.

383
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:21.839
Abbey's teacher noticed bruises on her back, extending from her shoulders to her waist

384
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and on her chest. Abby told
her teacher their parents thought that she had

385
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:32.200
stolen a penny and held her head
held underwater and they hit her with their

386
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:37.240
fists. Her teacher stopped telling her
mothers about her taking food when she realized

387
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.720
that Abby was being punished at home
for this. Abby named Jen as her

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00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.160
abuser, but Sarah took the blame. Sarah was arrested and she told law

389
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:49.119
enforcement that she had angrily hit Abby
while she was leaning her over the edge

390
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:55.000
of the bathtub. Sarah was given
community service and one year of probation.

391
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Hannah also had hunger issues at school
when came to school hungry, and her

392
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:06.640
friends would give her food. Not
much makes me matter than people not feeding

393
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:08.480
their kids. Yeah, like that's
not the way to punish your kids.

394
00:29:10.119 --> 00:29:12.000
Yeah, you don't. You shouldn't
reward your kids with food. You shouldn't

395
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:15.559
take food away, like unless it's
like, you know, like, oh,

396
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:18.400
you were naughty today, you don't
get dessert something right, minor like

397
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.119
that. But yeah, starving your
kids is never okay. Starving your kids

398
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:29.039
and then sending them to school is
just it just really upsets me. And

399
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:33.079
January twenty eleven, the school nurse
called Sarah when Hannah said she hadn't eaten

400
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.279
all day. Sarah accused Hannah of
quote playing the food card and told school

401
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:42.359
officials to just give her water.
The Hearts again found themselves under investigation by

402
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:48.880
CPS. The children were interviewed and
according to the Minnesota Star Tribune quote,

403
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.680
the children talked about not getting supper, getting sent to bed without food,

404
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:56.359
being made to stay in bed all
day, or stand in the corner for

405
00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.519
a long time end quote. Jen
claimed that the kids had food issues that

406
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:06.640
no one understood because of their traumatic
pasts. Others came forward and told CPS

407
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:10.160
that they saw Jennifer Hart forcing the
children to lay on the ground in a

408
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:14.319
dark room for four to seven hours, grabbing and dragging the children and not

409
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:19.119
allowing anyone to say Happy Birthday to
Marcus. Beginning in April twenty eleven,

410
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:25.440
Jen homeschooled the children. They never
again attended public school, taking away a

411
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:30.079
huge safety net from the already vulnerable
children. Boy, it's never a good

412
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:34.000
sign. No. Jen claimed her
family was targeted and bullied in the conservative

413
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:40.160
Minnesota community they lived in because of
their alternative lifestyle. She said the tires

414
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.200
on her car were slashed and their
house was egged, but none of those

415
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.759
claims were ever proven. The Hearts
moved to Westland, Oregon, outside of

416
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.440
Portland, in twenty thirteen, thinking
the liberal community would be a better fit

417
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:56.440
for their modern family. Two years
later, a case was opened there by

418
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:02.480
CPS for allegations of abuse in male
nourishment. Medical records showed that in twenty

419
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:07.400
thirteen, five of the six Heart
children were so small and thin that they

420
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:12.799
didn't even registered on the standard growth
chart used by pediatricians. That's that is

421
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.839
really very small and very thing.
Yeah, And did the kids not go

422
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.519
to school when they went to Oregon
either? Were they still owned school?

423
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.799
Were still home school? At age
eleven, Hannah weighed just fifty pounds and

424
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.000
was forty eight inches tall, about
the size of a six year old.

425
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:32.720
Davante weighed fifty seven pounds and was
fifty inches at age eleven, about the

426
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:36.319
size of an eight year old.
Jen would say that the children were healthy

427
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:41.640
and slim because of their organic vegetarian
diet. Oregon CPS closed the case after

428
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:45.759
five months, concluding that there were
signs, but there was not enough evidence

429
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:49.000
of neglect or abuse in the Heart
home to prolong their investigation, despite two

430
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:56.119
eye witnesses reporting harsh punishments and withholding
of food. The problem, a CPS

431
00:31:56.119 --> 00:32:00.160
employee, said, was that Jen
and Sarah just looked so normal. They

432
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.519
didn't look like child abusers. Whatever
that mean? Yeah, what does the

433
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:07.480
child abuser look like? Exactly?
It would be an ongoing theme for years

434
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.839
to come. Jen and Sarah were
attractive, educated, and Jen could talk

435
00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:15.920
her way out of just about any
situation. A CPS official said in their

436
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:21.039
report that the mothers were good at
deflecting and blaming the children for incidents in

437
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.640
their home. The report also noted
that the children all gave the same answers

438
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:30.920
when questioned and lacked emotion. It
was obvious they had been coached their punishment

439
00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.880
for misbehaving. They told CPS was
just to meditate for five minutes. One

440
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:38.160
of the people who reported Gen and
Sarah to CPS was a friend the family

441
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:42.720
had visited. They ordered pizza,
and the friend thought it was odd that

442
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:46.240
each child was only given one slice
of pizza. Have you ever met a

443
00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:50.599
kid in your life that has eaten
one piece of pizza? No? The

444
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.039
next morning, the leftover pizza was
gone. Someone had eaten it in the

445
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:57.920
middle of the night. Jen took
each child to the bathroom and questioned them,

446
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.720
but none of them owned up to
eating the pizza. She refused the

447
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:05.359
children breakfast and made them all lay
down on a bed for four to five

448
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.480
hours during the day wearing a blindfold
with their arms by their sides. That's

449
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:14.240
horrible, and that's what she did
at a friend's house, So what is

450
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:16.359
she doing in their own home?
Yeah, exactly. The friend talked to

451
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.640
Jen about the unfair punishment, but
she angrily brushed her off. She later

452
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.319
told authorities that the heart children were
all much too thin, and they ran

453
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:30.640
a quote regimented boot camp for true
kindness, love and respect for the children

454
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:36.079
was largely absent. Did I'm just
curious, did Jennifer and Sarah have any

455
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.759
eating issues themselves or anything. It
seems like food is like a big part

456
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:45.559
of the way that they decided to
punish their kids where they overweight, underweight.

457
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:49.319
Any issues that you know of their
no, they both they both looked

458
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:53.000
very normal. Sarah was definitely on
the thin side. Actually, I know

459
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:57.839
that she was five six, one
hundred and twenty pounds because of her autopsy.

460
00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:00.279
But Jen was heavier and actually,
at the time of her death,

461
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:04.920
friend said that she hadn't seen her
in a while. It looked like she

462
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:07.760
was twenty five pounds heavier than she
had ever been before. So both of

463
00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:13.239
the women are pretty active and in
good shape. In Oregon, homeschoolers are

464
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:17.159
required to register their children with a
local school district since the deaths of two

465
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:22.519
girls who were removed from schools by
their parents and later died. Ten year

466
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:28.920
old Miranda Crockett was withdrawn from public
school five months before her father's girlfriends drowned

467
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:32.159
her in a bathtub, and she
was cut off from trusted adults with whom

468
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.960
she could confide in. In two
thousand and nine, a fifteen year old

469
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:39.800
girl, Jeanette Mables, was killed
by her mother and her stepfather after a

470
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:45.159
severe beating. Her friends and family
had attempted to contact CPS to act in

471
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:50.159
her case. After years of being
abused and starved. She had been in

472
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:53.719
foster care for five years, but
was returned to her mother, who homeschooled

473
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:59.639
her. After their deaths Oregon CPS
vowed to be more diligent in following up

474
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:05.559
on fire reports, especially among homeschooled
children who don't have access to traditional community

475
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:10.239
supports like schools, churches, or
medical services after parents have isolated them.

476
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.800
Heartbreaking. Oh god. Yeah.
Attorney David Paul is working on making CPS

477
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:21.440
more accountable, but he said,
quote, trying to make this agency accountable

478
00:35:21.519 --> 00:35:25.920
is like trying to push a freightliner
with a canoe paddle. They are interested

479
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:30.440
in maintaining the status quo. People
call the hotline expecting something is going to

480
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:35.480
happen, but they are dropped into
the ABYSS without any rope end quote.

481
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:38.280
I have to believe there's like a
funding issue, just a resource issue there

482
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:43.519
too. It's not I can't believe
that people at CPS are like bad people,

483
00:35:43.559 --> 00:35:45.639
that they just don't care about this
stuff. I have to believe they're

484
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:52.800
very overworked and just don't have the
resources well, it's not the caseworkers,

485
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:58.639
and a good friend of ours is
a CPS caseworker. It's the system and

486
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.079
they can only do so much and
they are given to many cases. And

487
00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:07.320
this is an ongoing problem in this
case that we're talking about today, And

488
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:08.599
I wish I had the answers,
but I don't know. They were just

489
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:13.199
failed by the system. But the
system is, the system is broken,

490
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:17.519
so it's like it's just impossible.
The Heart children were never officially registered as

491
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:22.920
homeschoolers with the state after their move, which is illegal. Davante Heart was

492
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:29.599
the most magnetic, outgoing Heart child. His effrofescent personality and bright smile captivated

493
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:35.880
everyone he met. Did I say
Effrofestant's funny? Pretty good? Oh boy?

494
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.719
He had a way of being noticed. Everyone loved him from a young

495
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:43.360
age. He wore a sign around
his neck that said free Hugs when his

496
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:47.039
family attended public events. Friends recall
his hugs being tight and full of love.

497
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:52.639
Like having your kid wear a free
hugs shirt. A little strange had

498
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:55.639
not a free hug shirt but a
sign. It's just I don't really I

499
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:59.519
wouldn't want a bunch of people touching
my kid. Yeah, do we know

500
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:01.000
if that was his idea to do
that or if it was, what do

501
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.440
you think, I mean, probably
not, but it does sound like he

502
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.760
was like an outgoing kid. Well, you were a loving kid, but

503
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:08.440
I'm sure it wasn't like, hey, moms, I have an idea.

504
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:14.400
Yeah. In twenty fourteen, while
attending a Black Lives Matter rally in Portland,

505
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.559
Oregon, after police officers were acquitted
of wrongdoing in the death of Michael

506
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:22.880
Brown and Ferguson, Missouri, an
image of Davante went viral. He was

507
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.559
wearing his free Hug sign along with
a leather jacket and a stylish patterned royal

508
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:32.840
blue fedora when a white police officer
in rei gear asked him for a hug.

509
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.960
And the photo is the too embrace. The officer has a slight smile

510
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:43.079
and tears are rolling down DeVante's face. His face is full of emotion.

511
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:47.639
This picture was coined the hug felt
around the world a sign of hope and

512
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.840
racial healing. But of course that's
way too much pressure to put on an

513
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:54.800
eleven year old child. And I
showed you this picture. I mean,

514
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:58.679
it's a beautiful it's a beautifulictuture.
Yeah, it really is. It does

515
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:00.880
it. It makes you tear up, just like looking at the picture.

516
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:05.440
Yeah, it's full, just full
of emotion in his little basement. Here's

517
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.280
a short clip. As someone around
here said today, what the world needs

518
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:13.199
now might just be what we see
in this photo. After days of disturbing

519
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:17.199
media imagery surrounding the Ferguson grand jury
decision, there's this in the midst of

520
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:22.119
an emotional rally in Portland, Oregon, police Sergeant Brett Barnum and twelve year

521
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.519
old Davonte Hart. And it turns
out Davante has a remarkable story himself.

522
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:29.960
Born to a drug addicted mother and
into a violent life. He and his

523
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:34.159
two siblings were adopted into a loving
family, and Davante was at that rally

524
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:37.599
with a message of peace and holding
a sign offering free hugs. Sergeant Barnum

525
00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:43.039
asked if he might have one.
Brian Williams remember him, I do,

526
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:46.880
yeah, kind of a fall from
grace. I didn't remember what happened,

527
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:51.280
but I figured he must have had
some kind of must have gotten canceled somehow.

528
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.840
Well, he got put like on
a I think he might have been

529
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:57.880
suspended for a while, but then
he went to like the late late late

530
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:05.679
late news embellish some stories, and
it wasn't clear if he had false memories

531
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:09.880
or he was lying. Knowing more
about the heart children struggles at home puts

532
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:15.079
the famous picture in a different light. Was DeVante hoping this officer could save

533
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:20.280
him and his siblings? I would
not have I would not have guessed that.

534
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:22.239
I guess, but now that you
say that, maybe that is a

535
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:27.320
possibility. Or did he not want
to hug the officer? And Jen kind

536
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:30.280
of like, oh, go hug. Oh, so you think the tears

537
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:35.199
were like he was him doing this
against his will? Maybe? Yeah,

538
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:37.599
well it did. I mean,
it does seem organic. He looks very

539
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.559
genuine. It does look very genuine. Of course we'll post that. Jen

540
00:39:40.639 --> 00:39:45.199
later posted the photo on Facebook with
a following caption, my son has a

541
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:51.079
heart of gold, compassion beyond anything
I've ever experienced, yet struggles with living

542
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:55.199
fearlessly when it comes to the police
and people who don't understand the complexity of

543
00:39:55.320 --> 00:40:00.440
racism that is prevalent in our society. It was one of the most emotionally

544
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:06.719
charged experiences I've ever had as a
mother. End quote. So she's saying

545
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:10.079
his tears were because he was fearful
like living in fear of the police.

546
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:15.159
I think she was just talking about
racism in general, like he was just

547
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:22.440
devastated by racism, Davante told The
Oregonian when asked why he was giving hugs

548
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:27.000
during the twenty fourteen Portland protest.
Quote, I was trying to show peace

549
00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:30.079
that there is a different way to
handle it. End quote. Davante was

550
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:35.320
definitely Jen's favorite. He understood the
role and he was that he was required

551
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.199
to play and shined in it.
It seemed that he received special treatment as

552
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:44.800
the favorite child, which brings us
to Jen's social media posts and online life.

553
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:51.280
Jen was deeply involved in an online
gaming community called oz Broken Kingdom.

554
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:53.440
Have you ever heard of this?
No? I haven't. I think it

555
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:57.039
has something to do with a Wizard
of Oz, but I don't really know

556
00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.800
anything about it. Jen' spen hours
and hours each day playing the game,

557
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.639
often ignoring the children. She was
the co leader of a clan. A

558
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:07.079
clan, do you know what that
is? I assume it's just a group

559
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:10.039
within the game, like a team. It's a group of about fifty people

560
00:41:10.039 --> 00:41:15.039
that form a team and play the
game together to defeat other teams. Her

561
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:19.760
responsibilities as a co leader in the
game required her to play as long as

562
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.719
twelve to fourteen hours a day.
She I can't imagine playing again, and

563
00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:29.480
she didn't work outside the homes Sarah
was the breadwinner of the family and Jen

564
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:35.679
stayed home and well she was homeschooling
the kids right in between her twelve hours

565
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:39.039
of gameplaying. She was competitive and
always at the top of the leader board.

566
00:41:39.159 --> 00:41:44.559
Her team was ranked second worldwide.
She was very social with the other

567
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.639
members of her clan and was well
liked by the group until she abruptly left

568
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.840
the game in the summer of twenty
seventeen. Allegedly there was some dispute among

569
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:59.400
the players, and Jen really didn't
like anyone questioning her authority. A friend

570
00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:01.320
of hers from the gaming community said, with the amount of hours that she

571
00:42:01.400 --> 00:42:05.840
spent playing the game, there was
no way she would have been able to

572
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:10.039
provide her six children with an education
because the game was so immersive and time

573
00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:17.360
consuming and expensive. We six six
kids to homeschool with different levels and different

574
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:22.920
grades. That's a lot. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And Jen

575
00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:27.960
was known for her lengthly effusive,
sentimental and political posts on Facebook. Her

576
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:32.880
post portray a perfectly imperfect family which
I'm going to tell you personally, the

577
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:39.360
people, the influencers that are always
posting our Ruby Frankie episode we talk about

578
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:45.920
reminding me a lot about this episode, the perfectly imperfect bloggers and social media.

579
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:49.280
It drives me nuts, Like,
oh, this is our family.

580
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:53.920
We're a mess, but we all
just drives me nuts. Jen was a

581
00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:59.159
skilled photographer and was good at posting
the children to get the most impactful shots

582
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:04.679
the children beautiful with bright smiles.
She posted frequent photos of the children gardening,

583
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.079
raising chickens, and reading books in
the woods. And this was their

584
00:43:07.119 --> 00:43:13.519
homeschool curriculum. And a Facebook post
from twenty fourteen, Chan wrote about a

585
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:15.280
visit to the grocery store and I'm
going to have you read it if you

586
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:20.800
don't mind. Sure. An elderly
man was standing at the end of the

587
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:23.840
bagging area conversing with the woman checking
us out. He spots our son,

588
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:28.679
looks him up and down. Man, I can tell you're going to be

589
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:31.840
a baseball player when you grow up. Son pauses, tilts his head and

590
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:37.000
gives a closed mouth grin. Actually, no, baseball isn't really my thing.

591
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:39.559
Man. Well, I can tell
you're going to be a ballplayer.

592
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:45.079
Son as his mom. I can
tell there's a slight frustration inside of him.

593
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.119
No, I don't even play baseball. Check out, lady. Oh,

594
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.679
I bet you're going to be a
basketball or soccer player, then,

595
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.679
son, No, I don't play
any sports. It's just not my thing.

596
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.280
There's nothing wrong with sports or anything. I just have other interests.

597
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:05.400
Check lady, In a befuddled,
nearly astonished voice, what I have never

598
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:09.039
met a kid that looks like you
that doesn't play sports? Man, chuckling,

599
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:15.039
Right, never, they all do. My face was as red as

600
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:17.079
my hair at this point. It
was so obviously clear what was happening.

601
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:22.440
While I wanted so badly to step
in and protect my son from the ongoing

602
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:25.760
racial stereotyping, I didn't. I
let him step into his own power,

603
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:30.159
and he handled it brilliantly. Son, Well, of course you've never met

604
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.559
a kid like me. I'm one
of a kind. There's not another person

605
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.840
like me. Man, Well,
what do you want to be when you

606
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:42.119
grow up? Son? I'm here
to help people. I'm here to inspire

607
00:44:42.519 --> 00:44:45.719
now. Man, Oh, so
you're going to be a doctor, as

608
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:50.760
he laughed while he said it,
not kidding, Son, No, I'm

609
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:54.400
not man, While being a doctor
is the best way to help people.

610
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:59.199
What are you going to do to
help and inspire people? Son, putting

611
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:01.800
the last of the bag in the
cart. I'm going to be myself no

612
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:06.000
matter how much people try to make
me something. I am not. Have

613
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:10.159
a great night, flashes ginormous smile. I think this kid will be all

614
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:15.119
right no matter what is tossed at
him. What did you think of that?

615
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.719
Just? I mean, I don't
know what to think of it.

616
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:22.280
I think it's all made up,
is what I think. Yeah, I

617
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:24.000
don't think people talk like that.
I don't. I don't. I mean,

618
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.519
I know there is stereotyping for sure, and so I don't doubt that

619
00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:30.519
that happens to people, But that
just whole it just sounds like a made

620
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:34.920
up story for social media. I
have never met a kid that looks like

621
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.199
you that doesn't play sports. I
mean, come on, And the way

622
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:42.880
like the punctuation in this post is
just yeah, I don't know. It

623
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.480
just all gives me a big dick. Yep. Well, thank you for

624
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:51.000
reading that. You did a splendid
job. One of the friends who contacted

625
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:54.159
CPS said, quote, the kids
pose and are made to look like one

626
00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:58.880
big, happy family, but after
the photo event, they go back to

627
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:02.679
looking lifeless. A hug heard around
the world got a lot of attention and

628
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:07.280
a request for interviews. Jen claimed
that they received offers to make a reality

629
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:12.599
show. She refused, saying she
wanted to protect her children's right to privacy,

630
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:15.800
but in reality, she was probably
afraid the Heart family if they received

631
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:21.599
too much attention the CPS reports would
become public and jeopardize her custody of the

632
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:25.199
kids and the checks that continued to
come from the state of Texas. Jen

633
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:30.360
said she got a lot of hate
and death threats after the attention the hug

634
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:34.360
garnered. People said the picture was
posed, or Davante was an actor,

635
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:37.039
or DeVante was crying because she had
forced him to hug the police officer.

636
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:42.840
After the fierce reaction to the picture, the family became more reclusive and was

637
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:46.400
seen in public less frequently. Jen
took a six month hiatus from Facebook and

638
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:52.079
social media after posting the following I
understand many of you have stumbled upon the

639
00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:55.960
dark side of the media. As
of late, things have been twisted and

640
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:00.519
used for various reasons. I can't
control that, and I cannot allow that

641
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:05.519
to control me. What other people
think is none of my business. I

642
00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:09.599
know what really happened and how Davante
truly feels about that encounter, and that's

643
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:15.480
all that matters to us. So
she did have a big social media presidence,

644
00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:17.000
and then she kind of withdrew a
little bit. I'm a little surprised

645
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:20.960
to hear that, actually, because
it seems like they really thrived. Did

646
00:47:21.000 --> 00:47:24.480
they really, you know, like
that was she attention? But after the

647
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:32.199
hug picture, they really did get
some departs. Yeah, they were legitimate.

648
00:47:32.440 --> 00:47:36.280
I saw some of them, and
you know that is unpleasant, and

649
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:38.239
you can't You can't blame her for
that. You can blame her for a

650
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:42.280
lot of other things. So I
should have said earlier, like DeVante when

651
00:47:42.280 --> 00:47:45.400
they were asking him if he played
baseball and he said no, Well,

652
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:49.079
the kids never left the darn house. How could they be on a baseball

653
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:51.800
team? Good point. As far
as I know, they didn't do any

654
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:55.119
activities outside of the home. Yeah, okay, this is where the story

655
00:47:55.119 --> 00:48:00.000
starts, starts to take a little
turn. Okay. In twenty seventeen,

656
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:04.559
the Hearts moved to Woodland, Washington. They bought a house in an unincorporated

657
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:07.960
secluded area. Sarah worked at a
Kohle's department store as an assistant manager,

658
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.679
working long hours, while Jen continued
to stay home with the kids, sometimes

659
00:48:12.679 --> 00:48:17.119
traveling to music festivals or national parks. In September twenty seventeen, the Heart's

660
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:22.519
neighbors, Dana and Bruce to Kelb, were awoken by frantic knocking on their

661
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:28.480
front door. Hannah Hart, whom
the Kelbs hadn't been familiar with, ran

662
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:32.360
into their house begging them for help. They had briefly met Sarah Hart,

663
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:37.840
but they didn't even know children were
living next door. Hannah was wrapped in

664
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:40.800
a blanket and covered in BlackBerry brambles
and scratches from running through the woods that

665
00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:45.760
separated the properties at night after jumping
out of a second story window. She

666
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:50.599
was sixteen years old at the time, but that Kelbs thought she was seven

667
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:54.159
or eight. Her front teeth were
missing. She frantically told them that her

668
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:59.679
parents were abuse of racists and they
beat her with a belt. Outside,

669
00:48:59.760 --> 00:49:04.679
her family was calling her name and
searching for her with flashlights. She ran

670
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.280
up the stairs and hid in the
corner of the Kelb's bedroom and begged them

671
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:12.400
not to tell her parents where she
was. Her mother's barged into the house

672
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:15.880
and explained that Hannah had been having
a rough time with her brother, but

673
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:20.679
assured them that she was fine.
Jennifer made Hannah apologize for the incident.

674
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.719
She stayed and talk with the neighbors
and told them that the kids were all

675
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:29.599
drug babies and that Hannah's birth mother
had bipolar disorder, which she did,

676
00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:34.280
but still that didn't mean that Hannah
had right polar disorder. She claimed that

677
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.360
Hannah was twelve and small for her
age. Remember she was sixteen sixteen.

678
00:49:38.599 --> 00:49:44.360
Her front teeth had been knocked out
in an accident, and Hannah allegedly didn't

679
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:46.559
want them replaced, which, yeah, right, and he's sixteen year old

680
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:51.960
and would be fine. Yeah.
At six thirty am the morning after the

681
00:49:52.000 --> 00:49:54.679
incident with Hannah, I'm sure that
the Kelps were really happy, like four

682
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:59.639
hours later to hear them knocking at
the door. At their door, the

683
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:02.880
t Keel received a letter from her
that read, Dear Dana and Bruce,

684
00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:07.880
I stopped by this morning because I
feel horrible about disturbing your peace and worrying

685
00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:10.119
you in the middle of the night. I was very frustrated with my brother

686
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:15.280
and didn't handle things very maturely and
I'm sorry for telling lies to get attention.

687
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:19.239
I am working on being more honest
and finding better ways to communicate my

688
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:23.000
frustrations. I've been pretty sad about
two of my cats dying recently, so

689
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:27.840
I was just very sad and frustrated
last night. Thank you for being kind

690
00:50:28.119 --> 00:50:31.320
Hannah. Yeah, that sounds exactly
like something a sixteen year old would write.

691
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:34.760
I mean, I was so happy
when she escaped. I was like,

692
00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:37.880
go, Hanna, get out of
there. Dana wanted to report the

693
00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:42.559
Hearts for child abuse, but Bruce
encouraged her to stay out of the matter.

694
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:45.920
Dana told her dad Steve, the
bizarre story. He couldn't stop thinking

695
00:50:46.000 --> 00:50:50.199
of Hannah and the trouble she might
be in. He called the police in

696
00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:54.400
November of twenty seventeen. There's some
kids that I feel is being highly abused.

697
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:59.079
And how I know. Okay,
I'm going to give to the address

698
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.920
of my daughter house because it's right
next door. Yeah, if you're going

699
00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:06.039
up the road to her house,
it's a house on the right, okay.

700
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:08.440
And what's going on there, Well, they have black children with that

701
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:13.760
part doesn't matter, and they're new
here. But the other night the little

702
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:16.920
girls jumped out of the second story
window on the roof and then down onto

703
00:51:16.960 --> 00:51:21.400
the ground and ran to my daughter. And this is like two in the

704
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:24.119
morning, begging them to help her, to help her, and when they

705
00:51:24.159 --> 00:51:28.760
came looking for her, if she
was begging my daughter not to let them

706
00:51:28.800 --> 00:51:32.039
know she was there. And then
eventually my son in law let him know.

707
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:36.280
He doesn't want to get involved.
But the more I sit on it,

708
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.559
I just can't live with it.
Somebody's got to go there and check

709
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:43.159
out. And so how old was
the little kid that did that your daughter's

710
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:46.840
house? About twelve years old?
Thirteen? And then she had all four

711
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:52.519
of the kids come back later and
to say everything was okay, and they're

712
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:55.880
all standing at attention like they were
just scared to death. And I think

713
00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:01.159
there's something very serious going on there
here from Texas. The kids might even

714
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:07.639
be kidnapped. And basically my son
in law is like most people, they

715
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:10.679
don't want to get involved, and
so he's keeping my daughter out of it.

716
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:14.639
But since she's told me about it, I just can't live with it.

717
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:20.280
I'm very concerned for these kids.
Good for that man, Steve's my

718
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:23.039
hero. I mean, I'm so
glad he did that. Yeah, I

719
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:28.519
don't want to judge the de Kelps, but if that happened, you and

720
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:32.119
I would not get a wink of
sleep. We would call the police.

721
00:52:32.519 --> 00:52:37.719
I don't think we would hesitate,
Yeah, for sure. Neighbors recalled that

722
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:40.639
the children were rarely, if ever
outside, the blinds were always tightly closed

723
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:44.639
in the home. None of the
children had a cellphone or were allowed to

724
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:49.599
use the computer, and in twenty
seventeen, the kid's ages ranged from twelve

725
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:52.159
to seventeen. I'm sorry, twelve
to nineteen. They're not little kids anymore.

726
00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:57.440
They should have been spending time with
friends, exploring the world independently and

727
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:00.559
figuring out who they were and how
they fit into the world. The heart

728
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:05.760
kids didn't have any friends as far
as I can tell, outside of their

729
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:12.199
siblings, and they had absolutely no
autonomy. On March fifteenth, twenty eighteen,

730
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:15.679
Bruce de kelb was working on his
car in the driveway when Davante approached

731
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:21.199
him and asked him for food.
And the other incident happened in November,

732
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:24.559
so nothing happened from that. There
was an investigation, but you know,

733
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:29.960
the kids remained in the home.
Davante approached him and asked him for food,

734
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:32.880
He told Bruce that his mother's withheld
food from the children as punishment,

735
00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:38.239
sometimes for days at a time.
Davante returned to the Kelbs about twelve more

736
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:42.239
times over the week, multiple times
a day, and asked for fruit,

737
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:46.280
protein bars, cured meat, and
other non perishable food. He asked them

738
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:50.159
to put the food in a box
by the fence and not to call the

739
00:53:50.199 --> 00:53:54.280
police or CPS because he didn't want
to be separated from his siblings. Davante

740
00:53:54.320 --> 00:54:00.360
told the JCLBS that everything Hannah had
told them about their home life was true,

741
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:05.159
and they didn't call CPS, not
yet, can you imagine? I

742
00:54:06.079 --> 00:54:07.039
mean, I don't Again, I
don't want to judge them. I know

743
00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:10.880
they meant well and they did give
the kids food, but still I got

744
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:15.400
to report that. Okay. So
I'm going to briefly go through the timeline

745
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:17.239
just because like so much has happened, just so you have like a better

746
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:22.119
idea. In two thousand and four, that's when Sarah and Hannah became foster

747
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:28.880
parents. Two thousand and six,
that's when the first three were adopted and

748
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:31.760
they came to Minnesota. In two
thousand and eight is the first involvement with

749
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:37.760
CPS and then DeVante, Jeremiah,
and Sierra were adopted. In twenty ten

750
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:43.440
to twenty eleven, six child abuse
claims were filed against the Hearts. Sarah

751
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:46.239
pleaded guilty and was sentenced to one
year probation. The children were pulled out

752
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:52.239
of public school for good. Twenty
thirteen, Sarah's probation was up and they

753
00:54:52.280 --> 00:54:58.039
moved to Oregon. Twenty fourteen is
the picture of when the picture of DeVante

754
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:02.239
went viral and the family became a
li more reclusive. Twenty seventeen is when

755
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:07.480
they moved to Washington, Hannah escaped
and Davante starts asking for food. On

756
00:55:07.519 --> 00:55:13.239
March twenty third, Davante returned and
asked the Decalps for food one last time.

757
00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:17.239
Dana decides to call CPS and they
paid a visit to the house that

758
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:22.719
very day, but no one answered
the door. Sarah left her job at

759
00:55:22.760 --> 00:55:27.280
Cohle's and a scene for the last
time publicly. On March twenty fourth,

760
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.199
at three am, Sarah texted her
coworker from Cole's and told her that she

761
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:34.679
was too sick to come to work
and would not be able to open the

762
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:39.159
store that day. And this wasn't
characteristic of Sarah at all. She always

763
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:45.239
went to work. On March twenty
fourth, Dana, who Dina, became

764
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:49.239
obsessed with watching the house. She
didn't call CPS, but I think she

765
00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:51.559
wanted to, and she had a
lot of guilt, so she was like

766
00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:54.280
watching the house all the time for
something to happen. So on March twenty

767
00:55:54.320 --> 00:55:59.079
fourth, she noticed that the yukon
was not in the driveway and a retaining

768
00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:01.239
wall had been damned famaged. In
the heart's haste to leave the house,

769
00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:07.159
CPS returned twice more, but no
one ever answered the door. Later that

770
00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:10.519
day, the family is believed to
be about one hundred and sixty miles away

771
00:56:10.519 --> 00:56:15.760
from their home in Newport, Oregon, and by that evening they were in

772
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:22.840
Fort Bragg, California, so they're
just driving along the down coast. March

773
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:25.039
twenty fifth, at eight am,
Jennifer Hart is seen for the last time

774
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:30.280
on surveillance camera entering a Safeway in
Fort Bragg, California, where she purchased

775
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:36.639
bananas, saltines, and chef Boyerd
Revuoli for twenty dollars and eight cents,

776
00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:39.719
paying cash and using a member card, which is kind of strange. I

777
00:56:39.719 --> 00:56:44.679
can feel myself like starting to tear
up because I know what's coming. Yeah.

778
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:47.320
On March twenty six, at ten
am, the CPS caseworker returned to

779
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:52.320
the Heart home for the final time
and called police to complete a welfare check

780
00:56:52.320 --> 00:56:55.159
at the home after no one answered
the door. At one pm, Sarah's

781
00:56:55.159 --> 00:57:00.599
coworker, Cheryl Hart no relation,
also called for a welfare check after not

782
00:57:00.679 --> 00:57:05.599
hearing from Sarah for several days.
Here's a short clip because I was calling

783
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:07.920
the seething that wilfare just done.
Okay and her? Are we checking on

784
00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:13.119
Sarah Hart? Tell me the reason
that we're checking on her. She sent

785
00:57:13.159 --> 00:57:15.880
out a text message at three o'clock
in the morning on Saturday morning stating that

786
00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:20.679
she was sick, but nobody's said
be able to get a hold of her,

787
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:25.639
talk to her or seeing her since
that time. Message okay or her

788
00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:30.719
wife was his gen So was just
concerned? Okay? And did she when

789
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:32.840
she said she was sex? Did
she say what was going on? Or

790
00:57:34.039 --> 00:57:37.679
she just said that she just is
unable to come out and wasn't able to

791
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:42.280
go to work and thought she was
going to have to go to the doctor.

792
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:46.320
I checked the hospitals. They didn't
have any records of her and I

793
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:52.400
think her phone is now dead.
Okay, and just the two of them

794
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:58.360
live there. They have six children, okay. Any non medical history,

795
00:57:58.639 --> 00:58:00.800
not that I'm aware of. No, she has been sick. I think

796
00:58:00.800 --> 00:58:05.559
it's like a cold. Okay.
Has she been so svital at all?

797
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:12.320
Or see not that I'm aware.
Doesn't sound good, does it. A

798
00:58:12.360 --> 00:58:16.519
man camping with his wife in an
RV near highway in northern California heard tires

799
00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:22.559
crunching gravel on March twenty fifth,
twenty eighteen, just after eleven pm.

800
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:27.000
He peeked out and saw a large
suv, but no one exited the vehicle.

801
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.199
He assumed someone had parked there just
to get a few hours of sleep.

802
00:58:30.760 --> 00:58:32.760
He went to bed, but was
awakened at three am when he heard

803
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:37.559
the SUV's engine come to life and
fade off into the distance. Moments later,

804
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:40.400
off in the distance, he heard
the screech of tires and faint screams.

805
00:58:40.440 --> 00:58:45.199
He convinced himself that he was just
hearing animals. At three thirty pm

806
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:51.880
on March twenty six a tourists spotted
the hearts crushed GMC yukon suv at the

807
00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:55.320
bottom of the cliff. It took
emergency responders until midnight for the difficult recovery

808
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:59.639
of the Heart family and their vehicle. Jen and Sarah were found in the

809
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:04.159
Yuka Marcus, Jeremiah, and Abby
were thrown from the vehicle and found on

810
00:59:04.199 --> 00:59:08.119
the rocks nearby. A month's long
search ensued for the remaining family members.

811
00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:14.239
Volunteers searched forty five miles along the
coast searching for DeVante, Hannah, and

812
00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:19.079
Sierra. The crash was at first
thought to be an accident in law enforcement

813
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:22.639
hope the missing children hadn't been on
the trip and were somewhere safe, But

814
00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:28.760
as the investigation unfolded, it became
obvious that it was something else. When

815
00:59:28.760 --> 00:59:34.119
you start putting the totality of everything
together, you would be a village idiot

816
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:42.840
if you didn't think that you know
something. Who's rotten here? If on

817
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:46.599
day one I had said gauxious was
an intentional act and it was homicide,

818
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:51.480
oh can you imagine? People would
have said, who are you to make

819
00:59:51.519 --> 00:59:57.480
that determination? You know who would
kill six kids? I'm a dad who

820
00:59:57.519 --> 01:00:01.679
would kill six kids. But if
this is not an accident, that means

821
01:00:01.719 --> 01:00:08.159
one thing means it was a crime. If it's a crime, it's part

822
01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:15.559
of it. At the very beginning, when I said I have no reason

823
01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:19.000
to believe this is anything but an
accident, I believed it. But that

824
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:28.320
changed when things started developing from a
traffic accident to a homicide investigation. That's

825
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:31.000
not a baby step, that's a
big leap, but it is what it

826
01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:37.719
is. That was Tom Allman,
former sheriff coroner of Mendocino County, who

827
01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:42.199
was in charge of the heart investigation. Sarah Hart's Google searches and the hours

828
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:46.360
before her death became important evidence.
They included his death from drowning relatively painless.

829
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:50.599
How long does it take to die
from hypothermia and water while drowning in

830
01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:55.320
a car? How can I easily
overdose on OTC medicine? What OTC medications

831
01:00:55.360 --> 01:01:00.880
can you take to overdose? What
will happen when overdosing with menadrill? Sarah

832
01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:06.320
also googled no kill shelters for their
dogs. On April seventh, twenty eighteen,

833
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:10.559
Sierra's body washed ashore. Hannah's foot
was found on a nearby beach on

834
01:01:10.599 --> 01:01:15.880
May ninth, but it took ten
months to identify to identify it until her

835
01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:21.800
birth mother came forward and offer her
DNA. A DNA match was necessary because

836
01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:23.760
there were no dental records. As
far as law enforcement could tell, the

837
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:30.639
children had never visited a dentist.
The confirmation of Hannah's death dashed hopes that

838
01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:35.880
she and Davante might have escaped the
horrific situation. How you doing over there?

839
01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:39.119
I'm hanging in there. It's rough. I can't even yeah, I

840
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:45.360
just can't even imagine. Yeah.
The autopsy found that Sarah had forty two

841
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:50.320
doses of venadryl in her body,
Marcus had nineteen, Abby fourteen, and

842
01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:54.480
Jeremiah nine. Jen was legally drunk. Her blood alcohol level was point one

843
01:01:54.559 --> 01:02:00.000
oh two, the equivalent of about
five drinks. Point eight or high.

844
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:05.519
Is considered too intoxicated to drive.
Liquid and pill forms of Benadryla were purchased

845
01:02:05.519 --> 01:02:09.320
in Washington at Walmart shortly after leaving
their home, indicating the murders had been

846
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:14.840
premeditated. The cause of death for
all members of the Heart family was a

847
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:17.559
broken neck. So were the three
kids that weren't found in the car.

848
01:02:17.639 --> 01:02:22.079
Were they in the car but thrown
from the vehicle or were they killed in

849
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:24.800
a different way? Yeah, they
were, And I think police were confused.

850
01:02:24.880 --> 01:02:29.480
Yeah, to no. They I
mean, I will post pictures and

851
01:02:29.519 --> 01:02:36.320
you'll see that the the bottom of
the cliff where the vehicle landed. It's

852
01:02:36.360 --> 01:02:39.440
on this rocky beach, but it's
right up against so I think, you

853
01:02:39.480 --> 01:02:43.920
know, yeah, they were just
thrown from the car and they weren't found

854
01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:47.400
until later. Okay. Authorities ruled
the deaths of the Heart family intentional,

855
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:52.119
but felt a jury should decide.
Tom Alman, the sheriff coroner, opened

856
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:57.280
an inquest in Mendocino County. So
in California, a lot of counties use

857
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.519
the sheriff. Sheriff is also the
coroner. Mm hmm, which seems like

858
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:06.920
a huge workload. On April fourth, a jury of fourteen chose from four

859
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:10.440
manners of death for each of the
eight people who died natural causes, suicide,

860
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:15.760
accident, or homicide. Despite his
body never being found, A judge

861
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:20.679
had rolled Davante dead last night.
My voice started getting horse and I was

862
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:22.440
losing my voice. That I was
actually kind of happy because I was like,

863
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:27.639
oh,'ch is gonna have to
You're going to have to do this

864
01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:31.679
this story. Today, jurors heard
testimony from eight police officers, a medical

865
01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:36.519
examiner, and viewed more than one
dozen exhibits. Among the evidence was the

866
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:40.119
lack of skid marks or other signs
of breaking before the Yukon plummeted to the

867
01:03:40.199 --> 01:03:45.039
rocky beach, and no one was
wearing a seatbelt. Investigator said it appeared

868
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:51.519
that the suv stopped about seventy feet
from the cliff's edge, then quickly accelerated

869
01:03:51.559 --> 01:03:53.679
to twenty miles per hour at full
throttle, which I know that doesn't sound

870
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:59.679
really fast, but there was much
ground to get the speed up. The

871
01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:03.760
Heart's GPS washed ashore weeks later after
the crash, and that was critical evidence.

872
01:04:04.760 --> 01:04:09.519
In under an hour, the jurors
unanimously determined that the manner of death

873
01:04:09.559 --> 01:04:13.119
for Sarah and Jennifer Hart was suicide
and the deaths of the six children was

874
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:17.880
homicide. Mendocino County Sheriff Lieutenant Shannon
Barney said, quote, it is my

875
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:21.760
belief that both Jennifer and Sarah succumbed
to a lot of pressure, just a

876
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:25.360
lot of stuff going on in their
lives, to the point where they made

877
01:04:25.400 --> 01:04:30.039
this conscious decision to end their lives
this way and take their children's lives end

878
01:04:30.119 --> 01:04:33.960
quote. After the crash, law
enforcement entered the Heart home in Washington to

879
01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:38.920
look for evidence as to the whereabouts
of the three missing children and a possible

880
01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:43.880
motive. No suicide note was found
or proved that Devonte, Hannah, or

881
01:04:43.960 --> 01:04:47.679
Sierra could be alive. Investigators said
that it didn't look like the children lived

882
01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:51.239
in the home. It was organized
and tidy, and sadly, there weren't

883
01:04:51.360 --> 01:04:58.480
enough beds for eight children. Despite
claiming to have a strict organic vegetarian diet,

884
01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:02.440
the refrigerator and freezer were full of
meat and processed foods, and there

885
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:06.239
was a large bowl of fruit on
the counter, which I don't care if

886
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:11.920
they were eating. They had meat
in their house, but feed your kids.

887
01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:15.440
There was no reason for these kids
to go hungry. There were open

888
01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:18.519
bottles of wine in the counter,
despite Jen's claims that she never drank.

889
01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:23.519
In the basement, there was a
large screen TV. On Facebook, Jen

890
01:05:23.559 --> 01:05:28.079
had proudly claimed that they had given
up TV for the best big screen available

891
01:05:28.280 --> 01:05:31.760
planet Earth. So, like we
see so often in these situations, their

892
01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:36.559
social media life was really just a
big lie, right for sure. I

893
01:05:36.599 --> 01:05:41.960
think it's who they maybe wanted to
be, it's not who they were in

894
01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:46.079
reality. We'll never know what the
motive was for gen and Sarah killing themselves

895
01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:49.719
and their children. But we do
know that CPS was closing in on them.

896
01:05:49.920 --> 01:05:54.199
They were fourteen thousand dollars in debt, and Jen had been pretending to

897
01:05:54.199 --> 01:05:59.039
be the perfect parent for over a
decade. As their six children approached adulthood,

898
01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:02.440
Adulthood and Sarah may have realized they
no longer had the ability or right

899
01:06:02.519 --> 01:06:05.760
to control them. Whatever the reason, it was no fault of these six

900
01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:11.079
remarkable young people who had been through
so much in their short lives. Perhaps

901
01:06:11.119 --> 01:06:14.920
Jen and Sarah originally had the best
intentions and found themselves over their heads and

902
01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:18.159
felt like they didn't have anyone to
turn to because they wanted to be the

903
01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:25.519
ideal modern family and got caught up
in curating this perfection, sacrificing the actual

904
01:06:26.079 --> 01:06:30.480
happiness and well being of their children. I don't know. I don't know

905
01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:34.599
what the motive would have been,
but it's just disgusting and horrible. Well,

906
01:06:34.639 --> 01:06:40.159
and knowing that other people loved these
children. Yeah, friends of Jen

907
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:46.280
and Sarah have ardently defended them.
The kids were angels. They always beamed

908
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:51.800
with smiles. The Hard Family,
in my mind, are some of the

909
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:57.599
most precious beings on the earth.
That we've met. Anytime they would show

910
01:06:57.679 --> 01:07:02.079
up to an event, they would
show up with just an overwhelming energy of

911
01:07:02.119 --> 01:07:08.400
love. The Heart family were such
a great and still are a living legacy

912
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:13.400
of bringing our people together in the
importance of community and the importance of racial

913
01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:17.159
equality and the importance of freedom.
And they took day by day, hour

914
01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:21.639
to hour, moment to moment to
help them rejuvenate and help teach them the

915
01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:28.800
language and help teach them how to
be here with community. They really found

916
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.800
the goodness and everybody and I hope
that we can all really learn a really

917
01:07:31.800 --> 01:07:39.199
beautiful lesson in that and carry that
legacy on. Okay, I don't think

918
01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:44.079
so. It's maddening. Well,
I mean part of that clip it sounded

919
01:07:44.119 --> 01:07:45.920
like, you know, they were
talking about the kids, which I'm like,

920
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:48.039
okay, yeah, but yeah,
it sounds like they're kind of defending

921
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:53.880
Jen and Sarah, like that they
built this beautiful family and they should,

922
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.840
you know, I mean, these
people are clearly in denial. Yeah.

923
01:07:57.039 --> 01:08:00.679
Jamie Herman's a friend of Jen's since
high school, said the women were devoted

924
01:08:00.760 --> 01:08:04.360
parents. She said people who never
knew them are jumping to offensive and hurtful

925
01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:10.039
conclusions about their motives and their parenting. Quote were they perfect? No,

926
01:08:10.239 --> 01:08:13.559
but they are not the monsters they
are being painted as. The amount of

927
01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:16.119
love and good that they put into
this world is what their legacy should be.

928
01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:21.439
End of quote. I'm sorry,
I can't. Stacy Patten, an

929
01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:27.479
assistant professor of multimedia journalism at Morgan
State University, said the reaction to the

930
01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:31.279
heart case is complicated. Quote.
Anytime black bodies are killed as a result

931
01:08:31.279 --> 01:08:34.880
of something white people have done,
there is an almost intuitive response from white

932
01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:39.880
people that we shouldn't rush to judgment. We don't have all the facts.

933
01:08:40.199 --> 01:08:43.960
White people are constantly given the benefit
of the doubt despite the evidence that we

934
01:08:44.079 --> 01:08:47.720
have. End quote. We talked
about this in the Ruby Frankie case that

935
01:08:47.760 --> 01:08:55.079
we did for Patreon. But a
parent's most basic responsibility is to provide their

936
01:08:55.159 --> 01:09:00.359
children with food, shelter, and
clothing. If those needs are not met,

937
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:04.039
it's impossible for a children, for
a child to grow emotionally, physically,

938
01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:10.640
learn, socialize, love themselves,
or anyone else. Yeah, it

939
01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:15.520
just just infuriates me. Yeah,
me too. So part of the problem

940
01:09:15.560 --> 01:09:20.800
here is there is not a nationwide
registry for child abuse and child welfare,

941
01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:29.079
and that hopefully can be changed because
Jen and Sarah were able to have at

942
01:09:29.159 --> 01:09:33.760
least ten or more child abuse claims
over three states. Okay, so this

943
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:38.000
is because they moved from one state
to another. You think that there wasn't

944
01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:41.800
as much follow up as there should
have been because they weren't tracked kind of

945
01:09:41.800 --> 01:09:45.399
across. Probably, Yeah, they
all, you know, cumulatively have been

946
01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:49.479
looked at. It could have had
a different outcome. Yeah. I just

947
01:09:49.479 --> 01:09:54.960
wanted to say a little something about
the kids as individuals if I can get

948
01:09:54.960 --> 01:10:00.439
through it. DeVante was sensitive,
the leader of the group, charismatic going

949
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:04.479
and love to play his trumpet.
Jeremiah was a survivor, not expected to

950
01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:11.279
live long after his birth. Sierra
loved animals and her pet cat. Abigail

951
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:15.479
loved to explore nature and yoga.
Marcus was quiet and studious, and he

952
01:10:15.600 --> 01:10:20.079
loved to read, and he read
Twilight in one sitting. Hannah was quiet

953
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:24.760
and observant, more comfortable on the
periphery, but loved to dance and sing.

954
01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:30.359
Sorry, this just wrecks me.
Okay, that's so hard. Maybe

955
01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:34.960
all rest in peace and know how
well they were loved. I will never

956
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:42.720
forget these kids. Man Dante,
the brother of Davante, Jeremiah, and

957
01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:46.600
Sierra has two sons of his own
today who have also entered the foster system.

958
01:10:47.560 --> 01:10:51.720
Dante, the cards were stacked against
Yeah. He has had several run

959
01:10:51.720 --> 01:10:57.119
ins with the law for theft and
domestic abuse. He has also had issues

960
01:10:57.159 --> 01:11:00.760
with drugs, and he's been in
game and he has not been able to

961
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:06.600
hold a job. Roxanna Escarian,
author of We Were Once a Family,

962
01:11:06.680 --> 01:11:11.720
A Story of Love, Death and
child Removal in America, which was one

963
01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:15.760
of my sources, not only wrote
an informative and devastating book about the Heart

964
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:19.199
Family and the birth families of Marcus, Hannah, Abigail, DeVante, Jeremia,

965
01:11:19.279 --> 01:11:24.800
and Sierra, she became a fearless
advocate for the birth families and personally

966
01:11:24.800 --> 01:11:28.840
made it her mission that they received
some of the remains of the children.

967
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:33.319
The Heart and Gengler families would only
relinquish a portion of the ashes, but

968
01:11:33.399 --> 01:11:39.359
it was something for the children's birth
families to hold on too. I can't

969
01:11:39.399 --> 01:11:43.880
imagine how grateful they were to have
a tiny part of their children, except

970
01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:48.600
for DeVante, whose remains have never
been found. So that's the horrible story

971
01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:51.880
of the Heart Family. Well,
thank you for telling the story. It

972
01:11:51.960 --> 01:11:59.359
is horrible and I yeah, I
have no words. It's a tough one.

973
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:02.680
You just can't wrap your head around
white people would do this, You

974
01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:09.680
really can't. It's just the obsession
of creating this image of perfection, white

975
01:12:09.760 --> 01:12:15.119
saviorism. These I don't know.
Sarah was not as bad as Jen,

976
01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:20.680
but she was complicit. She could
have stopped it. University of Michigan law

977
01:12:20.680 --> 01:12:27.520
professor Vivic Sankarum said, in our
system, once a child is adopted,

978
01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:30.960
we equate it with success, and
there is very little follow up. We

979
01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:33.600
actually know very little about the well
being of how kids from the foster care

980
01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:40.479
system do after they are adopted end
quote. Studies show that adopted children,

981
01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:45.439
even when placed early in life,
have more anxiety, depression, and mental

982
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:49.079
health issues as compared to the general
population. Some of this stems from the

983
01:12:49.119 --> 01:12:56.520
biological parent, but also environmental factors
that arise in the adoptees new home.

984
01:12:58.199 --> 01:13:00.600
The thought that these three children were
better off with two white women states away

985
01:13:00.640 --> 01:13:05.279
from their family members that had once
fought so hard to adopt them is unacceptable.

986
01:13:05.560 --> 01:13:11.520
Poverty isn't neglect. Children are taken
away from their families as a punitive

987
01:13:11.560 --> 01:13:15.439
measure when other therapies could be administered. These families are plagued by addiction,

988
01:13:15.640 --> 01:13:19.399
poverty, mental illness, violence,
and trauma, and much of it is

989
01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:25.640
intergenerational and cyclical. It doesn't mean
that they don't love their children. Yeah,

990
01:13:26.279 --> 01:13:30.920
it's so tough, it's such a
complicated. Yeah, it's a criticize

991
01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:33.159
the system because I know that there's
a lot of people that work really hard

992
01:13:33.800 --> 01:13:38.159
and the best interests these kids.
And you know, you say, like,

993
01:13:38.279 --> 01:13:42.279
well, you know, the kids
shouldn't have been taken away from their

994
01:13:42.960 --> 01:13:46.359
their biological families, but in some
cases the children do need to be taken

995
01:13:46.359 --> 01:13:49.439
away from their biological families. It's
just, you know, not it's not

996
01:13:49.479 --> 01:13:54.000
a one size fits all answer.
Yeah, it's super complicated issue. And

997
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:58.600
yeah, but in this case,
the kids were failed. It seems like

998
01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:02.199
numerous times, you know, start
to finish. Yeah, and keeping the

999
01:14:02.279 --> 01:14:06.399
children together is so important. And
my research like when at all possible,

1000
01:14:06.600 --> 01:14:12.760
kids should be placed with family members
and never separated from their siblings. That

1001
01:14:13.119 --> 01:14:17.640
leads to so much trauma. So
I mean, that's that's pretty much it.

1002
01:14:18.520 --> 01:14:25.800
Sorry for my emotion. That was
a tough one one putting it off,

1003
01:14:25.800 --> 01:14:28.560
but I really wanted to tell the
story, and I, yeah,

1004
01:14:28.600 --> 01:14:30.439
I'm glad you told the story.
I think it's an important story to tell,

1005
01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:34.319
and I think you did a great
job. I appreciate that. I

1006
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:38.079
did want to talk about my sources
really quick, and as usual, I

1007
01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:40.560
have way too many, Like I
think you at one point you said to

1008
01:14:40.600 --> 01:14:44.640
me, stop, You're good,
But I just I always just want to

1009
01:14:44.680 --> 01:14:48.560
tell the story the best way I
can, and it's tough. There's a

1010
01:14:48.600 --> 01:14:54.479
podcast called Broken Hearts that I listened
to a year or two years ago that

1011
01:14:54.920 --> 01:14:58.880
I first learned about this story,
and they do a pretty good job.

1012
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:03.079
But they and it seems like they
can mildly defend Jen and Sarah, and

1013
01:15:04.520 --> 01:15:08.560
I don't think that they deserve to
be defended. No, I don't think

1014
01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:12.079
so either. I'm sure they were
troubled and had issues, but to do

1015
01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:14.960
what they did, I can't.
Yeah, I can't defend that. I

1016
01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:19.239
can't defend it either. And also
I listened to I watched a documentary called

1017
01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:26.119
A Thread of Deceit and that was
horrible because it was also defended. Really

1018
01:15:26.359 --> 01:15:29.680
yeah, it was a lot of
their I think it might have been funded

1019
01:15:29.720 --> 01:15:33.359
by their festival friends. I'm not
sure, but there was a lot of

1020
01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:36.479
people saying, oh, you know, like that quote we heard, they

1021
01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:41.800
put a lot of good into the
world. There was also I do recommend

1022
01:15:41.920 --> 01:15:47.800
a documentary called Broken Hearts and I
watched it from HBO Max and that was

1023
01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:55.000
really well done. That one I
really enjoyed. And Roxtanna Ascarian's book was

1024
01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:59.520
so touching. We Were Once a
Family, a story of love, death

1025
01:15:59.520 --> 01:16:04.439
and child removal in America. I
can't recommend that enough. It's half of

1026
01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:08.800
it is about the Heart Family,
but the other half is more about the

1027
01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:13.000
system. The system. Yeah,
and she was in the system herself,

1028
01:16:13.079 --> 01:16:19.079
so she has interesting personal information.
So yeah, devastating story. Well again,

1029
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:24.560
great job telling the story. Well
I will never forget those six beautiful

1030
01:16:24.600 --> 01:16:29.399
children who deserved so much more out
of life. Yeah, they deserved a

1031
01:16:29.479 --> 01:16:32.840
chance. Yeah. Well that's all
I have about the Heart Family. But

1032
01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:36.760
I did want to say thank you, a hearty thank you to everyone who

1033
01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:41.920
has left us reviews. We do
see them. We're so grateful, and

1034
01:16:42.119 --> 01:16:47.039
even people that interview up reviewed us
on good Pods. I didn't wait.

1035
01:16:47.079 --> 01:16:50.039
I opened that the other day.
I was excited to see some reviews there,

1036
01:16:50.039 --> 01:16:53.399
So thank you so much. Yeah, it really does mean a lot

1037
01:16:53.439 --> 01:16:57.439
to us along the same lines too, We got we got an email yesterday

1038
01:16:57.439 --> 01:17:00.880
that just it made us both cry. But it was from people are like,

1039
01:17:00.920 --> 01:17:03.640
well, you cry it anything,
Yeah, but it was from I

1040
01:17:03.680 --> 01:17:05.880
don't want to say who exactly it
was from, but it was from a

1041
01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:10.399
close family member of one of the
victims of our stories, and she wrote

1042
01:17:10.399 --> 01:17:13.920
to us to tell us how much
she appreciated the way that we told the

1043
01:17:13.960 --> 01:17:17.079
story and our compassion, and it
just means so much to us, so

1044
01:17:17.279 --> 01:17:19.720
much. Could we try our very
best? We really do, and I

1045
01:17:19.880 --> 01:17:23.000
we try to have fun, and
we try to have a laugh here and

1046
01:17:23.039 --> 01:17:27.399
there, but when we talk about
the victims and their families, it's only

1047
01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:30.720
only with respect and compassion, and
so to know that that's coming through and

1048
01:17:30.760 --> 01:17:35.159
that even close family members of the
victims are you know, feel that way,

1049
01:17:35.199 --> 01:17:39.560
it just it means a lot.
Well. A fellow podcaster recently posted

1050
01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:43.000
something that I've been thinking about and
I keep thinking about. She said,

1051
01:17:44.079 --> 01:17:47.399
people's stories don't belong to you,
and I think there is some truth to

1052
01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:51.319
that, and we never want to
see him exploitative. Yeah, but it's

1053
01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:55.600
also important to tell these stories,
I think, yep, for sure.

1054
01:17:56.560 --> 01:17:59.479
On a lighter note. I did
want to mention that some people have told

1055
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:02.560
me that they listen to us when
oh I should be quiet, they're nodding

1056
01:18:02.560 --> 01:18:09.800
off, or when they're sick.
Thank you for listening. I don't really

1057
01:18:09.800 --> 01:18:15.119
feel like our voices are that relaxing. I apologize, I need to hire

1058
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:19.840
somebody. I'm a disaster. But
anyway, rate, review, subscribe.

1059
01:18:19.960 --> 01:18:26.279
We appreciate you guys, We love
you guys. Consider paton dot com,

1060
01:18:26.319 --> 01:18:30.279
slash love, Mary kill Well.
Thanks everybody for listening, and be good

1061
01:18:30.319 --> 01:19:03.199
to each other. Apt