March 31, 2025

Joan Harmon and Christian “Kit” Martin - Part 2

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In November 2015, three people were brutally murdered in the small town of Pembroke, Kentucky – Pamela and Calvin Phillips, and Ed Dansereau. The police quickly homed in on a suspect, Major Christian “Kit” Martin, who lived across the street. Martin was set to be tried in a court martial hearing in just two weeks, and Calvin Phillips was a key witness. But Kit had recently been through an ugly separation from his wife, Joan Harmon, who threatened to “ruin his life”. Did Kit commit these horrible murders, or did Joan follow through on her threat?

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Today's snack: Sanders Sea Salt Caramels (thanks Emily!)

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Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina.

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And if there's one thing we've learned, and over twenty

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years of.

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Marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband and.

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Some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary kill Hey babe, Hey Rich?

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How are you?

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I'm great? How are you good?

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I'm sorry for calling you babe.

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It's ongoing joke, yes, because I've read somewhere that like people,

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younger people don't say honey to their spouse, they say babe.

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And so we, jokingly, just to make our kids crunch,

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have been calling each other babe lately. It just sounds

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so unnatural to me, and I don't really understand it either,

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because it's like baby, It's like you know, my baby.

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It is a little weird. But we've been doing this

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jokingly for long enough now that it's going to start

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sounding natural to us, and then it's going to.

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Become Oh no, not for me. No, I don't think so,

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probably not. So where are we on the marriage meter today?

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Do you feel like killing me? Or am I? Where

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am I?

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No? You We're pretty far on the other extreme pretty

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the marriage meter.

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Yeah, you han't got me a nice delly sandwich. For lunch,

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which was very sweet.

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As I do that so that I stay on that

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side of the marriage meter.

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Also, well it made me sleepy though, Okay, like I'm

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having some you know, turkey after effects. Oh but I'm

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going to perk up here.

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Well, you are going to want to be perked up

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for part two of this case. It's it's a crazy one.

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Okay.

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Well, we finished off the first day of March Madness

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and our whole family did a bracket.

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We're recording on Friday, March twenty first at three twelve pm. Yeah,

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round one.

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And you are in the lead in our family.

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Shockingly shocking. I'm sure I won't be for long.

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Oh you never know.

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Do you have Michigan? Did you have Michigan winning last night?

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Because Michigan did win last night.

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Yeah, I have Michigan winning. I think the next round.

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Also, I have them to a semi final, I think.

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Yeah.

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So what happened was like my bracket. I wear contacts

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ninety nine percent of the time this time. If you're like,

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allergies are really ramping up, and if you're a contact wearer,

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you know that you're your context. Just it's just kind

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of a it's a battle and sometimes I wear daily

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contact lenses, which I really love, but sometimes I get

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like a little masscara on them and it's really annoying

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and I can't see all the rest of the day.

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What is the point of this story, Tina?

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So when I was when I was doing my bracket,

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I thought it said like Drake was number one, but

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they were actually number eleven.

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So you got them going all the way?

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I have them going all the way.

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So I saw your bracket.

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Let me just like a Cinderella story. But they they

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already they did.

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Win the first what. Yeah, it was an upset. It

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cracked me up. I saw your bracket.

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I was like, maybe I just have a really good intuition.

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I mean, if if Drake did happen to win the tournament,

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that would be amazing.

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Well, I would still only win forty dollars, so you know.

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Better than a sharp stick in the eye.

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Well, who do you have?

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I have Duke going all the way.

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It's probably more likely. But anyway, I hope you filled

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out a breath. I think your breck is going well

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and you all win a million billion dollars. Did you

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bring me a snap? I did bring Did you bring

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me the oatmeal raisin cookies I made this week.

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No, I didn't bring you that I actually have. Oh

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did you have something?

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Well? I was just going to comment how this week

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I don't normally do this, but I made oatmeal raisin

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cookies because they're one of my favorites. No one else

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wants them, even put nuts in them. So so you

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didn't bring those? No, I didn't bring Have you even

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had one of those?

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I haven't.

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For rich to resist a homemade cookie, even at oatmeal cookie.

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You it's a little rare, you know.

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I just not a big fan, So which bring me?

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I saw the powdered sugar was out of place in

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the pantry.

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Like a detective. No, I did not make you anything

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with Actually.

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Sugar was definitely out of place.

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I actually have a snap that one of our kind

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listeners sent us. Oh okay, so I stopped by our

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post office box and our listener, Emily, who is a

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fellow Michigander. She's from Plymouth, Michiganmouth creat it's a beautiful town.

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She sent us a really nice thing. So not only

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did she include a sack, but she sent us socks. Awesome. Really, Yeah,

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so she sent us these lovely socks that say true

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Crime on them and they've got like heart with them. Yeah,

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it's really they're really cute.

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So really, that was so kind of you. Thank you.

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And then she also sent us these Sanders milk chocolate sea.

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Salt we love, we love those, We love Sanders.

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We do love those, of course.

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And if you're out of state, like Sanders is here

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in Michigan, but I think they've branched out quite a bit,

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you can find them in a lot of places. Your

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sister sends me pictures all the time because they love

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Sanders too, and they're in California and you can you

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can find their stuff everywhere. But it's really good chocolate.

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And if you can find their bumpy cake, bumpy cake

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is really is really awesome. So yeah, so thanks so much, Emily.

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That was so nice of you to send this to us.

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And yeah, we will enjoy some Sea Salt caramels.

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Well I can tell you already that's at eleven out

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of ten.

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Love them for sure. Well let's take a little break

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and have one. As expected. Those were amazing.

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They're really good. They're a favorite around here for sure.

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Yeah, thanks again, Emily so much.

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And Sanders has a lot of great Easter treats. Go

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to Sanderscandy dot com s A N D. E. R

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S Candy dot com. They have a lot of special

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things for Easter Day. We have a lot of good

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holiday treats. Our kids recently told me that the chocolate

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bunnies that I always put in their Easter baskets, they

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don't like them because they feel creepy eating something that

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has a face and ice.

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I can understand that, I guess, so well, should we

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get back to our story, We definitely should, all right?

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Would you like to give us a recap of what

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we heard in part one?

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Sure? In part one, when we were introduced to major

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Christian Kit Martin, he and his second wife, Joan, had

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a huge fight in September twenty twelve, which led to

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Joan making claims that Kit had abused her and her children.

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In an emergency protective order hearing, a judge found in

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Kit's favor. Joan had a history of making up stories,

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and she had apparently coached her children to say that

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they had seen Kit hit her. According to Kit and

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his daughter Mackenzie, Joan had promised to ruin Kit and

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his military career when he asked her for a divorce

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and reported a number of allegations against Kit, including sexual assault, abuse,

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and molestation of her children, and she accused Kit of

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being a spy in addition to finding some apparently classified

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materials that Kit had in his possession. This all resulted

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in a court martial hearing. One of the witnesses in

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that court martial hearing was going to be his neighbor.

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Kelvin Phillips was close to Joan word around town was

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that they were having an affair, and he was apparently

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with her when they found the classified materials. Two weeks

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before the scheduled court martiall trial, Calvin and his wife Pam,

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and their next door neighbor at Danzaro were all killed.

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So if you haven't listened to part one, go back

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and listen to part one.

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Well, before we go on with the story, I wanted

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to do a quick recap of the timeline and think about,

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like the most likely sequence of events that happened.

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In this was a little complicated.

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Yeah, it was really complicated, and it was different events

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happened throughout the course of the day. So Calvin Phillips,

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who was fifty eight, was likely killed on the morning

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of November eighteenth. The time window that he must have

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been killed was fairly narrow, because Pam left for work

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around six thirty am, and by ten forty am delivery

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truck drivers arrived to find no sign of him. His

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body was eventually found at the box of the cellar stairs.

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He was wearing a raincoat with the hood tightly cinched,

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suggesting that he was killed outside because it was raining

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that morning, and then he was possibly dragged to the

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back porch using a blue tarp. His body was then

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dumped into the cellar, which is interesting because the cellar

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was almost hidden, like it's not something that you would

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have obviously seen that there was a cellar. So that

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makes us believe that only a person familiar with the

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house would have known that there was a cellar there

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and to have dumped his body down there. His wife,

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Pamela Phillips, who was fifty three at the time of

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her death, was likely attacked that evening while on the

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phone with their friend Marlene La Roque at five point

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thirty pm. She had called Marlene when she got home,

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and she something startled her when she was on the

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phone and the line went dead. Marlene never heard another

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word from her. The evidence suggested that there was a

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struggle in the kitchen. There was a clump of Pam's

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hair found there, and a trail of blood led from

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the kitchen toward the back door, so it appeared that

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she may have been dragged through the kitchen. Ed Danzero,

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there next door neighbor, was sixty three when he died.

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He may have seen something that evening, something that made

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him grab his gun and rush out. He had been

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in the middle of making dinner, but something outside caught

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his attention. His abandoned fish filet on the counter, his

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open door, and his missing gun all pointed to a

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single terrifying moment when he made a decision to intervene,

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and he never returned to his house. His cell phone

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and his gun were later found in the yard, not

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far from bloodstains in the grass, so he had likely

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been ambushed and killed near the driveway, probably moments after

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Pam was killed. And then came the final act, which

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was just before two am. The killer or maybe killers returned.

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Pam and Ed's body were loaded into her car. The

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vehicle was driven two miles out to Rosetown Road, doused

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in kerosene, and set on fire. But then the question

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is how did the killer get back? Did they walk back?

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But that's where Ed's abandoned car may come into play.

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So Ed's car was discovered a few blocks away from

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their home. It was positioned near a highway out of town,

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so it seemed likely that maybe two people were involved.

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Moving multiple bodies and vehicles might have been difficult for

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just one person. So perhaps one of the killers had

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driven Ed's car to Rosetown Road where they left Pam's car,

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then used it to return back to near the Phillips

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house and left the car there. So it's very confusing,

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though they.

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Would still have needed a getaway car, so that's Yeah,

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maybe they didn't want to leave any evidence in their

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own car. Yeah, so that's why they used Ed's car.

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Yeah. I think trying to interpret like the crime scene

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and why the killer or killers did what they did

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is really baffling, Like why did they leave Calvin's body

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at the house? Why did they move Ed's car? So, yeah,

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we just don't know.

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So where do you think Pam's body was between the

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time that she was murdered until the time that she

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was taken out of town?

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Yeah, it's a really good question. I mean, because she

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was killed at five point thirty. Ed was probably killed

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right around that time as well, But then they weren't

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moved until two am.

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So you think Ed was killed because he saw something.

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Yeah, I mean, he was in the middle of making dinner,

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so it must have been right around the same time.

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So I can only imagine that the killer or killers

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left their bodies either in the back of the house

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or somewhere you know, where they wouldn't be visible. But

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I don't know.

241
00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:34.200
We should mention too that Kit Martin and his girlfriend

242
00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:38.279
Laura Spencer lived like right across the street.

243
00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.759
Yeah, pretty much directly across from Ed danzero, and then

244
00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:45.240
sort of kitty corner from the Phillips house. It didn't

245
00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:48.679
take long for investigators to zero in on Christian Kit

246
00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:52.440
Martin as their prime suspect. The day after the discovery

247
00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:55.120
of the three bodies, police secured a search warrant for

248
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:58.039
Kit's home. At the time, Kit was at work at

249
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Fort Campbell, leaving his wife Laura home alone. She was

250
00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:06.240
upstairs when she heard it. Glass shattering, voices, screaming panics

251
00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:09.000
surged through her. She couldn't make out the words, but

252
00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:12.320
the urgency in the voices sent her running. She grabbed

253
00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.399
her phone, bolted downstairs, and sprinted for the back door.

254
00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:19.559
The moment she stepped outside, five SWAT team members were there,

255
00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:23.279
Rifles aimed at her head. They barked orders, yelling at

256
00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:25.840
her to put her phone down. She dropped it. Her

257
00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:29.320
hands were shaking. That moment would haunt her for years.

258
00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:31.879
Laura was so shaken by what had happened that she

259
00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:34.639
never again set foot inside the big yellow house on

260
00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:39.720
Main Street. Inside the house, investigators scoured every inch, seizing

261
00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.320
anything that might link Kit Martin to the murders. Among

262
00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:48.519
the confiscated items multiple firearms, his home security system, his computer,

263
00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:54.440
and several boxes of documents related to his court martial. Meanwhile,

264
00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:57.919
Kit himself was detained at Fort Campbell. He was locked

265
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:00.559
in a cell for five days while authority he combed

266
00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:04.120
through his life. His car was searched, his work laptop

267
00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:07.320
was taken. He had no answers and no contact with

268
00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:10.519
the outside world. I can only assume that military law

269
00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:13.639
is very different from civilian law because they were basically

270
00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:15.679
able to just lock him up for five days with

271
00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.159
no arrest, no reason.

272
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.360
Just I was just going to ask what evidence pointed

273
00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:23.440
them to Kit right away.

274
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.759
The only thing was that the subpoena they found at

275
00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.600
Calvin and Pam's house that showed that he was going

276
00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.919
to be a witness in Kit's court martial trial, which

277
00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:34.399
was only two weeks away. I think that was the

278
00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:36.720
main thing right out of the gate that they found.

279
00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:40.240
When he was finally released, he was handed a strict

280
00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:43.200
set of restrictions. He wasn't allowed to have contact with

281
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.360
Laura and he wasn't allowed to travel beyond thirty miles

282
00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.080
from the base. That latter restriction actually made it nearly

283
00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:53.200
impossible for Kit to meet with his lawyers because he

284
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:56.279
was still preparing for his upcoming court martial trial, which

285
00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.080
was now pushed back. It was originally supposed to be

286
00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:01.440
two weeks after them, but it was pushed back to

287
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.720
March of twenty sixteen. So with three people, Dad and Kit,

288
00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.279
Martin and the crosshairs, the question remained was he truly

289
00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:11.600
the killer or was there more to the story.

290
00:14:12.399 --> 00:14:17.519
So Kit wasn't arrested, he was just thrown into some

291
00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:19.159
sort of military jail.

292
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:22.559
Yeah, pretty much. I mean, like I said, I don't

293
00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:25.279
know military law well enough to know what is allowed

294
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:26.840
and what isn't allowed. But I think if you're in

295
00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:29.600
the military and they want to detain you, they can

296
00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:32.639
just do it. And yeah, I think they just held

297
00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:35.720
him for five days for no reason. He wasn't under arrest.

298
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.960
And you said possibly wasn't given food.

299
00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:41.399
I did read some accounts where he wasn't given food

300
00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:43.639
during that five days, but I'm not sure if that's

301
00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:47.399
true or not. But yeah, it's pretty bad. And then

302
00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:49.759
to release him, but say, well, you can't have contact

303
00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:52.799
with your girlfriend and you can't go more than thirty

304
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:56.480
miles from the base. Very yeah, very strict.

305
00:14:57.039 --> 00:14:59.600
Yeah, And did he he had attorneys that were working

306
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:01.960
at his court martial case, and I'm curious if he

307
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:03.799
had access to those attorneys or not.

308
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:05.039
Yeah, I don't know.

309
00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:11.159
Calvin's autopsy revealed the brutal extent of his injuries five

310
00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:15.600
gunshot wounds from forty five caliber bullets, three to the chest,

311
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.639
one to the neck, one to the right clavicle. But

312
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:24.000
what made these bullets particularly disturbing was their type. They

313
00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:28.960
were rip bullets manufactured by G two Research, designed for

314
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:34.600
a maximum damage, each round separated into eight razorlike fragments

315
00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:40.639
called trocars, shredding through flesh upon impact. As previously mentioned,

316
00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:43.080
much of the trauma to the lower part of Calvin's

317
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.080
face had occurred before his death, while some of his

318
00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:49.799
other injuries were perry mortem, meaning that happened around the

319
00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:53.639
time that he died. But there was something else. Calvin

320
00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:57.360
had no injuries to his hands, no defensive wounds. If

321
00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:02.519
his killer had beaten him first, been signs of a struggle. Instead,

322
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:06.840
the evidence suggested something even more chilling. Kelvin was shot first,

323
00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:10.120
then dragged to the cellar stairs and thrown down while

324
00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:14.279
still alive. His face likely smashed against the steps as

325
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.600
he tumbled down, a theory supported by the blood on

326
00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.600
the stairs and the tooth found beneath him. Pam and

327
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:25.000
Et had suffered a different fate. Both have been killed

328
00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:29.000
with twenty two caliber bullets, each sustaining gunshot wounds to

329
00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:32.559
the brain. In Pam's case, there was also a bullet

330
00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:36.879
lodged in her heart. Shockingly, within just a few days

331
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:40.120
of their murders, police turned the crime scene back over

332
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.480
to the families. Given the sheer's size and clutter of

333
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:47.240
Calvin and Pam's house, it seemed impossible that investigators had

334
00:16:47.279 --> 00:16:53.919
processed everything thoroughly, and soon it became clear that they hadn't. Matt, Calvin,

335
00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:57.279
and Pam's son traveled home Louisville to help clean out

336
00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:00.679
the house. Joined by Calvin's sister Diana, it was a

337
00:17:00.759 --> 00:17:04.279
daunting task, one that would take months. A week or

338
00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:07.480
so after the murders, as they worked alongside their friend Linda,

339
00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:12.920
they began uncovering evidence that police had somehow overlooked. Linda

340
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:15.440
was sweeping the kitchen when she spotted something small on

341
00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.920
the floor, a single twenty two caliber bullet. Alarmed, they

342
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:23.079
called the police, who returned to collect it. When they

343
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:25.920
tested the area where the bullet was found, they also

344
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.359
detected traces of Pam's blood. Both the bullet and the

345
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:33.880
blood had been missed during the initial investigation. But that

346
00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.839
wasn't the most shocking discovery. That same day, Diane made

347
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.400
a fine that would send chills down everyone's spine. On

348
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.920
the top shelf of the built in bookcase in the foyer,

349
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.279
the same place where Calvin's wallet and phone had been found,

350
00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.920
she spotted something small and metallic. When she picked it up,

351
00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:55.759
she realized it was a military dog tag. Assuming it

352
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:58.319
was her brother's dog tag, she clutched it to her

353
00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:01.519
chest and handed it to Man, but when Matt looked

354
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.599
at it, his face changed. Ant Dianne, this isn't my

355
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.519
dad's dog tag. Engraved on the tag was the name

356
00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:13.640
Kit Martin. It was a baffling discovery. If Kit had

357
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.000
been the killer, would he really have left something so

358
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.759
incriminating behind and was it even a real dog tag?

359
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:23.599
Military dog tags don't use nicknames, meaning it should have

360
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:27.519
said Christian Martin, not Kit Martin. Not only that, but

361
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:30.400
it was hanging from a string rather than the standard

362
00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:34.319
issue metal chain. Most soldiers would tell you their dog

363
00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:38.759
tags would never be hung from a string. One could

364
00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.559
argue that the tag was planted after the fact, but

365
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.680
police photos from their initial search showed the string dangling

366
00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:47.920
from the shelf. It had been there all along. The

367
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.920
police had just failed to notice it.

368
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:52.640
This is one of the most bizarre things about this

369
00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:54.759
case is this dog tag. First of all, the fact

370
00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.440
that police didn't find it, like it was sitting right

371
00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.839
up next to Calvin's wallet and fun so they and

372
00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.400
they found his wallet and phone, but this dog tag

373
00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.440
sitting right next to it they just ignored. Second, who, like,

374
00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.759
why would Kit Martin leave his dog tag there if

375
00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:14.759
he was the killer? It just makes no sense unless

376
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.799
he was playing some really advanced game of three D

377
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.599
chess and left it there thinking no one would ever

378
00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:22.359
believe I would I would leave it there right.

379
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:23.880
Well, like you said, it was on a string, and

380
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.880
it didn't have his birth name on it. It's all

381
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:29.960
very strange. Can you You can probably have a dog

382
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:30.640
tag made.

383
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:32.559
Oh yeah, you can go anywhere on the internet and

384
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:33.319
get a dog.

385
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:36.319
Tag, But is it the same you know, quality gauge

386
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.920
metal and you know, the same font and all that.

387
00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:40.880
Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure you can get I'm

388
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:42.839
sure there's a lot of different types of dog tags

389
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.160
you can get made. But yeah, it's just very strange,

390
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:45.799
just strange.

391
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:49.880
Five months later, yet another critical piece of evidence surfaced.

392
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:53.519
While continuing to clean that house. Must have been something

393
00:19:53.680 --> 00:19:56.960
Calvin was kind of a horder. Diane found a spent

394
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.400
forty five caliber shell casing on the back porch. It

395
00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.200
had been tucked away in a corner, hidden beneath a

396
00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:06.000
pile of wood, just spet from the cellar door. What

397
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:07.920
Calvin's body had been dumped.

398
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:11.359
Again, It's just crazy that the police turned the house

399
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.839
back over in three days after the investigation and this

400
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.039
was found not very far from where his body was,

401
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.839
So it's just kind of crazy that they didn't they

402
00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:22.400
didn't take more time with the scene.

403
00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.240
It sounds like maybe the police were frustrated by the

404
00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:29.279
scene and knew that any evidence would be really hard

405
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.960
to find, And it sounds like maybe it wasn't the

406
00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.039
best kept house, and yeah, the dirt and the grime

407
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:36.240
and the doghare and whatever.

408
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.200
Yeah, it seems like they just kind of gave up.

409
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:42.400
Before shifting our attention back to Kit's court martial trial,

410
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.839
Another shocking twist unfolded in the weeks following the murders.

411
00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:49.200
On December thirty first, just a month after the killings,

412
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:51.759
Joan Harmon walked into an AT and T store with

413
00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.119
her kids in an iPhone in hand. She approached an

414
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.960
employee and asked if he could help unlock the device.

415
00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:01.400
She didn't have the pass code. The employee took the

416
00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:04.200
phone to the back to check its details. What he

417
00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.880
found made his stomach drop. The phone belonged to Pamela Phillips.

418
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.519
He recognized her name from the news and immediately called

419
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.039
the police. Meanwhile, back in the store, the security camera

420
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.920
captured Joane's reaction as soon as the employee returned and

421
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.079
informed her that the phone belonged to our murder victim

422
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:24.880
and that the police were on their way. She quickly

423
00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:28.799
gathered her children and hurried out of the store. Later,

424
00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.519
Joan called the officer who had picked up the phone,

425
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.960
offering an explanation. She claimed that her son had found

426
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.680
the phone several days earlier in their front yard next

427
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:40.559
to a tree. She had admitted that she had tried

428
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.799
multiple times to guess the passcode, triggering a factory reset,

429
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.119
completely wiping any potential evidence that might have been on it.

430
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.720
Did you know that if you put the wrong passcode

431
00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:54.279
in I think it's ten times in a row, you

432
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.359
have the option to reset the phone to its factory settings.

433
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:00.200
That's insane, I know, I did not know that. It's

434
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.359
still the case, I believe so, So then can you

435
00:22:03.440 --> 00:22:05.319
gain possession of the phone? Well, I guess it still

436
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:09.200
has the same number though. Yeah, this discovery should have

437
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:12.759
sent up major red flags in the investigation. How did

438
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:16.119
Pam's phone end up in Joan Harmon's hands, and why

439
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:19.599
was Joan so desperate to gain access to it? Yet,

440
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:22.799
instead of digging deeper, police did little more than drive

441
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:25.680
by her house to confirm that yes, there was in

442
00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:28.680
fact to tree in her front yard. Then they simply

443
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.240
accepted her story and moved on. Holy cow, I know,

444
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:34.559
it's just just crazy. Like if you find a phone,

445
00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:36.799
you don't try to open it, you hand it over

446
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.920
to the police, especially if it's, you know, a murder

447
00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:41.599
victim's phone.

448
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.480
Well, if her story is true, she didn't know it

449
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:46.599
was a murder victim's phone, but still, why would you

450
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:50.839
try to open a phone, you know, multiple times? And

451
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:53.119
it just it doesn't make sense, And the fact that

452
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.000
the police didn't follow up on it also doesn't make sense.

453
00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:58.640
Right, We'll be back after a break.

454
00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:09.160
So the investigation into the murders kept going on, but

455
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.319
in the meantime, Kit's court martial trial finally began in

456
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:15.759
May of twenty sixteen. Given the option of having his

457
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.559
fate decided by a military judge or a panel of

458
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:20.839
eight peers, Kit chose the latter.

459
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.599
Calvin wasn't necessarily an important witness like his testimony. Not

460
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.039
having his testimony do you think that would change the case.

461
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.160
I don't think it would change it that much because

462
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.640
the only thing he was really going to testify to

463
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:36.839
is the fact that he was there when Joan found

464
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:40.319
the classified materials, so it gave a corroboration to that.

465
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:46.440
But in Kit's mind, he'll say that he wanted Calvin

466
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.720
there because Calvin also said that he never saw any

467
00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:51.480
abuse of the kids, and he never witnessed anything. Joan

468
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.960
never said anything to him about it. Without external corroboration

469
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:59.599
of Joan's abuse allegations, the prosecution leaned heavily on a

470
00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:03.920
month's behind closed Doors narrative, portraying Kit as someone who

471
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:08.799
appeared respectable in public but was abusive in private. Joan

472
00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:13.559
and her children once again testified repeated their claims of abuse. However,

473
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:17.839
inconsistencies emerged between their testimony at this trial and what

474
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.079
they had previously stated at the EPO hearing and the

475
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:25.480
Article thirty two hearing. Kit's defense team countered with witnesses

476
00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:29.160
who attested to his good character and some who told

477
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.279
of Joan's history of dishonesty. Among them were Jones's first husband,

478
00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.759
Carlos Guerra, and Michael Atkins, who was Elijah's father, who

479
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.559
was very much alive despite Jones's past claim that he

480
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:45.400
had been decapitated. The trial concluded on Friday, March thirteenth,

481
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.440
just one day before Kit's daughter, Mackenzie's wedding. He could

482
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.599
only hope that he could be there for her big day.

483
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.799
Unlike civilian criminal trials, military court martial decisions are made

484
00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:01.160
by panel members casting secret ballots. A guilt verdict requires

485
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:05.000
a two thirds majority. Kit was acquitted of the most

486
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:09.880
serious charges, including sexual assault, child rape, aggravator assault, and

487
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:13.200
threats of murder. However, he was found guilty on two

488
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:18.240
counts of mishandling classified information and two counts of simple assault,

489
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.599
specifically related to the injuries on Elijah's back that Joan

490
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:27.200
had photographs of. While the verdict was largely in Kit's favor,

491
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:30.519
it marked the end of his military career. His sentence

492
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:35.079
included a formal reprimand forfeiture of all pay and allowances,

493
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:40.079
ninety days of confinement, and dismissal from the army. Kit

494
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:43.880
requested permission to attend his daughter's wedding before serving his sentence,

495
00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.000
but the judge denied his request. Instead, he was immediately

496
00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.119
shackled and taken into custody. Oh boy, seems really harsh, Like, yeah,

497
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:54.200
it was only a ninety day sentence. It wasn't like

498
00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:57.200
he was in prison for life. Why not let him

499
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.680
take one more day and go to his daughter's wedding.

500
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.279
Probably why you're not a judge.

501
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:05.440
Probably why Kit tried to stay optimistic during his ninety

502
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.200
day incarceration. His military career was over, but he still

503
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:12.960
had Laura. While he was in prison, she had relocated

504
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:16.440
to Roanoke, North Carolina, and when he was released, he

505
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:20.319
joined her there. The investigation into the murders of Pamela

506
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:24.160
and Calvin Phillips and ed Danzero remained open, but Kit

507
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:26.720
saw no reason to believe that he would be charged.

508
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.480
He spent the following year working with the National Coalition

509
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:33.799
for Men, advocating for soldiers that he believed had been

510
00:26:33.799 --> 00:26:37.839
wrongfully convicted due to false testimony. His work took him

511
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.359
between North Carolina and Washington, d c. Where he met

512
00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:44.880
with senators and members of Congress to discuss the consequences

513
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:49.680
of politically motivated reforms to the Uniform Code of Military Justice,

514
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:55.000
particularly regarding sexual assault cases. Meanwhile, he and Laura bought

515
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:57.599
an old house that he spent his free time renovating.

516
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.519
In twenty seventeen, Kit learned of a growing pilot shortage.

517
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:05.839
Airlines were actively seeking military trained pilots, and those with

518
00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:10.960
experience could quickly advance from first officer to captain. Although

519
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:14.920
Kit was already licensed to fly rotor wing aircraft or helicopters,

520
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.960
he needed additional training to qualify for fixed wing aircraft.

521
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.319
He dedicated ten months to training before securing a job

522
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:28.400
with Pacific Southwest Airlines, a regional carrier operating under American Airlines.

523
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:32.200
When Kit went to apply for jobs after his court

524
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:36.039
martial and jail time was up, do you think that

525
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:39.880
he had to devulge that information on his application with

526
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:40.720
the airlines?

527
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:43.240
It's a really good question. Yeah. I don't know if, like,

528
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:46.720
when you have a conviction like that under military law,

529
00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:48.880
if that carries out, if you have to.

530
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.839
Is your military life separate from civilian life?

531
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:53.680
Yeah, I'm not sure. You would think that if you

532
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:56.279
were applying for a job as a pilot, if you

533
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:00.599
had a felony on your record or something serious like assault,

534
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:03.799
that that would probably prohibit you from being hired. But

535
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:08.319
I'm not sure. As months turned into years without an arrest,

536
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:11.319
Matt Phillips and his aunt Diane refused to let the

537
00:28:11.359 --> 00:28:15.759
case fade into obscurity. They relentlessly pressured law enforcement and

538
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:20.599
politicians demanding justice. Their efforts were tireless. They made frequent

539
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:25.720
television appearances, erected billboards advertising a one hundred thousand dollars reward,

540
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.480
They wrote letters, They directly lobbied Kentucky Attorney General Andy

541
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:35.200
Basheer to take action. Their persistence finally paid off. In

542
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.079
May twenty eighteen, the district attorney took the case to

543
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:42.359
a grand jury, seeking an indictment against Kit Martin. The

544
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:46.519
prosecution's case hinged on a single witness, Detective Scott Smith,

545
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:50.880
the lead investigator. Smith testified that Kit had a clear

546
00:28:50.960 --> 00:28:54.599
motive to prevent Calvin Phillips from testifying at his upcoming

547
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:59.039
court martial. He presented ballistics evidence, claiming that bullets and

548
00:28:59.079 --> 00:29:02.079
shell casings found that the crime scene could be traced

549
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:05.799
back to Kit's firearms. He also cited cell phone data,

550
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:09.720
which according to him, placed Kit's phone on Rosetown Road

551
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.400
around the same time that Pam's car was set on

552
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.839
fire in the early morning hours. That was all it

553
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.319
took the grand jury handed down an indictment. There was

554
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.920
just one problem. Much of Smith's testimony was misleading, and

555
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.319
in some cases it was flat out false.

556
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.400
The day after the grand jury indictment. Kit Martin was

557
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:33.440
on a layover in Louisville, midway through a four day

558
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:38.440
trip for work. Meanwhile, Acrosstown, Matt Phillips received a dramatic

559
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:42.279
and unsettling phone call from the Attorney General's office late

560
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:46.799
that night. The voice on the other end wasted no time. Quote,

561
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:49.480
you need to leave your house in the next thirty seconds.

562
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:52.240
Get on the highway, go in a direction you don't

563
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.720
normally take. Once you're in a car, call me back.

564
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.960
Understandably shaken, Matt grabbed his computer, phone charger and a

565
00:30:01.000 --> 00:30:05.160
handgun before rushing out the door. When he called back,

566
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:08.440
he was told the moment had finally come. Kit Martin

567
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:11.960
was about to be arrested. Since Kit was in Louisville,

568
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:16.839
authorities claim they were concerned for Matt's safety. Taking no chances,

569
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:20.240
Matt drove all the way to Cincinnati and checked into

570
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.759
a hotel for the night. Do you think he stopped

571
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:28.160
at Skyline Chili? Perhaps in an absurd overreaction. The Attorney

572
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.759
General's office knew exactly where Kit was and why he

573
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:35.200
was in Louisville for work, just like any other routine layover.

574
00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.319
There was no indication that he posed any danger to

575
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:42.039
Matt Phillips, a man he didn't even know. But the

576
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:46.880
spectacle didn't stop there. Rather than making a quiet, straightforward arrest,

577
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:53.440
authorities orchestrated a dramatic takedown. Multiple officers descended on Muhammad

578
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:58.160
Ali International Airport, publicly handcuffing Kit in front of his

579
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:04.200
crew members and passenger. Attorney General Andy Basheer defended the decision,

580
00:31:04.519 --> 00:31:06.839
claiming that a arresting Kit at the airport was the

581
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.960
safest option for both officers and the public, but the

582
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:14.519
reasoning didn't hold up. Instead, the move seemed more like

583
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:18.680
political theater, especially considering Basher was in the middle of

584
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:23.519
a gubernatorial campaign with a primary election just two weeks away,

585
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.119
and if that was the goal, it worked. The media

586
00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:31.920
latched onto the story, amplifying it with sensational headlines. The

587
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:36.160
public took notice, and in November twenty nineteen, Andy Basheer

588
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:39.160
was elected as Kentucky's next governor.

589
00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:42.680
The whole thing makes me so irritated, like the fact

590
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.799
that they called Calvin's son and got him in a

591
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.279
panic because kid's going to come over and kill you

592
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.079
when there's just no evidence to show that, and they

593
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:55.160
could have been watching Kit the whole time anyway. So yeah,

594
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:57.599
the whole thing is just very irritating.

595
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:01.400
Kit Martin was slept with a staggering three million dollar

596
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:03.839
cash bond. I don't know if I ever heard one

597
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:08.920
that high, one million dollars for each victim. His family

598
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:11.480
initially assumed they'd need to come up with about ten

599
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:14.519
percent of that amount to secure his release before trial,

600
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:18.640
but the judge had other plans. By setting it as

601
00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:21.680
a cash bond, he ensured they would need the full

602
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:26.160
three million dollars, an impossible sum. Kit would remain behind

603
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:29.720
bars until his day in court. When Kit's attorney got

604
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.559
his hands on the grand jury testimony from Detective Scott Smith,

605
00:32:33.920 --> 00:32:37.640
he was furious. The most damning piece of evidence cell

606
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:42.039
phone location data. Smith had testified that Kit's phone was

607
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.839
on Rosetown Road at two am, the exact time Pam's

608
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.480
car was set on fire. That Smith claimed placed Kit

609
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:53.000
at the scene. But there was just one problem. The

610
00:32:53.079 --> 00:32:56.960
claim was completely false. Kit's legal team brought in a

611
00:32:57.039 --> 00:32:59.880
cell phone expert to analyze the data and the findings

612
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:04.240
or damning not for Kit, but for detective Smith. In

613
00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:09.079
his report, the expert concluded, my review of the above

614
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:13.359
information shows that Lieutenant Smith's grand jury testimony is often

615
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:18.440
not supported by the cast reports, is misleading, and it

616
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:22.799
relates to the actual data, contradicts the data, and excludes

617
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.240
evidence in the report which refutes his testimony. Any statements

618
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.079
or claims that a device had to be in a

619
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:35.079
very specific location, narrow area, or along a particular roadway

620
00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:39.640
are unfounded and shown a distinct lack of knowledge, understanding,

621
00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:44.559
or honesty about the underlying data. In reality, Pembroke was

622
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:48.319
a rural area with few cell phone towers, making precise

623
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:52.839
location tracking nearly impossible. At best, the data could place

624
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:56.920
Kit's phone within a fifty to sixty mile radius, nowhere

625
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.680
near the pinpoint accuracy that Smith had claimed.

626
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.759
So the whole like the distance between the crime scene

627
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:06.720
where Calvin, Pamela, and Edward killed and where Pam's car

628
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:10.639
was found was about two miles, and so Detective Smith

629
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:13.800
is basically testifying that, oh yeah, Kit's phone was exactly

630
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.400
here where the car was burning, when there was really

631
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:17.360
no way.

632
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:22.159
To get himpling it to that accuracy exactly. Armed with

633
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.239
this evidence, Kit's attorney was confident he had grounds to

634
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.400
get the case dismissed. He filed emotion arguing that the

635
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:32.519
indictment was based on false testimony, but the judge wasn't swayed.

636
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:35.239
He ruled that the cell phone evidence was just one

637
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:39.239
piece of the grand jury's decision. Other evidence had been

638
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:42.639
presented as well, but the truth was the cell phone

639
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:46.559
data had been the linchpin of the case, and without it,

640
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:49.039
the foundation of the indictment was weak.

641
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:52.480
I did read that Detective Smith later agreed that his

642
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.400
testimony was incorrect, but he basically said, oh, I just

643
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:58.440
made a mistake or I misunderstood the data.

644
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.199
I think self data is like a lot of the

645
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:06.400
other evidence that we have in these cases, like blood

646
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:10.599
spatter and you know, just any number of evidence, like

647
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.840
some DNA testing. It.

648
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.559
It's just it can be so confused that it's so hard.

649
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.360
And it's still a relatively new science. So yeah, I

650
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:23.840
can understand why that's problematic evidence. Yeah. As the trial

651
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:27.719
date loomed, prosecutors made Kit martin and offer plead guilty

652
00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:31.440
to three counts of conspiracy to commit murder, and he'd

653
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.960
receive a sentence of five to thirteen years with immediate

654
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:41.119
parole eligibility. He could potentially walk free much sooner. Kit

655
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:44.239
didn't hesitate he turned it down. His attorney saw the

656
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.800
deal for what it was a sign that the prosecution

657
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:50.920
wasn't confident in their case. If they truly believed Kit

658
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.239
was a triple murderer, why offer him a sentence that

659
00:35:54.320 --> 00:35:56.480
could put him back on the streets in just a

660
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:59.639
few years. And the lead up to the trial, two

661
00:35:59.719 --> 00:36:04.119
key developments unfolded. First, Joan and Elijah, who had once

662
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:08.960
been central figures in Kit's life, were both subpoenaed to testify,

663
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:11.719
but through their attorneys, they informed the court that they

664
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:15.599
planned to invoke their Fifth Amendment rights against self incrimination.

665
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:21.519
Oh that's frustrating. Yeah, this presented a strategic opportunity for

666
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:24.719
Kit's defense. The judge could force them to take the stand,

667
00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.039
where they'd have to invoke the Fifth in front of

668
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.719
the jury. That kind of moment could be powerful. Seeing

669
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:35.039
two potential suspects refused to testify might plant serious doubt

670
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:39.559
in the juror's minds and bolster KITT's alternative perpetrator defense.

671
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:43.559
But there was another option. The judge could simply excuse

672
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:47.719
them from testifying altogether, robbing the defense of a crucial moment.

673
00:36:48.519 --> 00:36:51.920
That's exactly what he did. Then came another major blow

674
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:56.159
to Kit's case, Judge Atkins ruled that four witnesses could

675
00:36:56.199 --> 00:37:00.360
testify that just weeks before his murder, Calvin or Pam

676
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.519
Phillips had told them that if anything happened to them,

677
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:09.079
authorities should look at Kit Martin. Kit's defense immediately objected.

678
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:13.719
These were hearsay statements, which are generally inadmissible in court,

679
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.800
but there are exceptions. One of them applies if the

680
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:19.840
defendant caused the death of the person who made the statement.

681
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:24.079
Kit's lawyers argued that the prosecution had no evidence of

682
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:28.400
any direct threats from Kit to Kelvin, so the hearsay

683
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:33.639
shouldn't be allowed. The judge disagreed the testimony would be allowed.

684
00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:37.920
With two major pre trial rulings going against them, Kit's

685
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:41.079
defense team knew they were in for an uphill battle.

686
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.920
Kit's trial finally began in June twenty twenty one. To

687
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:48.440
break things down clearly, let's take a closer look at

688
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:53.880
four key areas of evidence. Ballistics, cell phone data, hearsay testimony,

689
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:57.639
and Kit's own security camera footage. Let's start with the

690
00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:01.360
ballistics evidence. This is a crucial element in the prosecution's case.

691
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:04.920
If you recall Calvin Phillips was killed with a forty

692
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:10.679
five caliber weapon using specialized rip bullets designed for maximum damage.

693
00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:14.280
A single forty five caliber shell casing was later found

694
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:17.000
on the back porch five months after the murders.

695
00:38:17.719 --> 00:38:19.639
Keep in mind, I don't know much about weapons, but

696
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:24.360
these rip bullets are they accessible to the public? This

697
00:38:24.400 --> 00:38:25.960
isn't a military very inaccessible.

698
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.760
Yeah, but they're not common at all, and no bullets

699
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:32.199
of that type were found in Kit's housor in his

700
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:36.840
truck or anywhere. Investigators compared the recovered bullets and the

701
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:41.000
bullet fragments from bullets test fired from Kit's clock forty five.

702
00:38:41.719 --> 00:38:45.639
The results no match. The markings on the evidence bullets

703
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:49.719
were noticeably different from those fired from Kit's gun. However,

704
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.840
the differences weren't strong enough to completely rule out his

705
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.800
gun either. Then there was the shell casing found months later.

706
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:00.800
This was a different story. Ballistics confirmed that the casing

707
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:06.320
was definitively fired from Kit's clock. Prosecutors seized on this detail,

708
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:08.719
calling it the next best thing to a smoking gun,

709
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.840
clear proof that Kit's weapon had been used at the

710
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:16.480
crime scene, but there were serious problems with that theory. First,

711
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.360
the shell casing was found five months after the murders,

712
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:23.119
which that alone raises doubts. Was it overlooked for months

713
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:27.440
or was it potentially planted to frame Kit? Joan had

714
00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:30.480
access to Kit's clock. Kit kept the gun in his

715
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:33.559
truck and he believed that Joan knew that and had

716
00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:37.039
access to it around the time of the murders. Also,

717
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:40.559
Kit and Joan had fired the block at Calvin's house before,

718
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:43.639
if you remember in part one we talked about Calvin

719
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:47.000
had a backyard shooting range and had even hosted a

720
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:51.360
concealed carry class that Joan attended using Kit's clock, So

721
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:55.360
it's entirely possible that shell casings from Kit's gun were

722
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:59.199
left on the property long before the murders. There was

723
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:03.719
also a he technical detail that contradicted the prosecution's claim.

724
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:08.639
The recovered shellcasing had a brass primer, but the rip

725
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:12.360
bullets used to kill Calvin were normally manufactured with a

726
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:16.800
nickel primer, so it's very subtle detail. But the shell

727
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:20.679
casing that was found likely came from a different type

728
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:23.440
of bullet than the ones that killed Calvin, so it's

729
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:26.960
very possible that the shellcasing and the bullet were two

730
00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:29.719
separate things. Does that make sense.

731
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:34.320
Calvin had been shot five times, right, and how many

732
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:37.840
of the bullets were found or casings were found from

733
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:39.480
those five shots.

734
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:42.119
The only shellcasing that was found was this one that

735
00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:44.239
was found five months later. I don't know how many

736
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:47.320
bullets were found. I know at least some bullets were

737
00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:49.880
found from that from him being.

738
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:52.000
Shot, and we think that he was shot outside.

739
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:55.119
I think so at least some of the times he

740
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:57.480
was shot were outside. I think there was one bullet

741
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.159
found in the basement, so he was at least shot

742
00:41:00.159 --> 00:41:03.960
once after being leave in the cellar. Yet correct. Right,

743
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:06.679
Let's shift gears to the murders of Pamela Phillips and

744
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:10.440
at Danzero because those involved a completely different weapon, a

745
00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:14.480
twenty two caliber gun. So Kit did own three twenty

746
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:18.920
two caliber firearms. Investigators test fired rounds from each and

747
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.360
compared them to the bullets found at the crime scene.

748
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.480
Their conclusion was they couldn't rule out that Kit's guns

749
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:28.599
were the murder weapon. Now that might sound damning, but

750
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.039
in reality it didn't really mean anything. The bullets had

751
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:35.239
markings that were typical of most twenty two caliber guns,

752
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:37.599
which means that they could have come from one of

753
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:41.320
Kit's or from almost any other twenty two caliber firearm.

754
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:46.280
So while the prosecution framed the ballistics evidence as incriminating,

755
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:51.639
a closer look revealed a murky, inconclusive picture. Now let's

756
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:53.960
talk about the cell phone data, which was another key

757
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:57.199
piece of evidence that at first glance seemed to work

758
00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.480
against Kit, but when you examine it closely, had actually

759
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:04.880
pointed in his favor. We've already discussed how Detective Smith

760
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:09.199
misled the grand jury, whether intentionally or not. He testified

761
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:11.880
that KITT's phone could be placed on Rosetown Road at

762
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:15.440
two am, right when Pamela Phillips's car was set on fire,

763
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:19.559
but that was completely false. Given the limited number of

764
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:23.440
cell towers in rural Pembroke, it was impossible to pinpoint

765
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:27.000
a phone's exact location with any degree of accuracy, so

766
00:42:27.079 --> 00:42:31.320
the prosecution's claim simply wasn't supported by the data. Then

767
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:34.039
there was another critical detail, one that should have helped

768
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:38.400
Kit's defense. Remember how pam Phillip's phone turned up in

769
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:41.960
Joan's possession. While Joan claimed her son had found it

770
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.320
in their yard, the police didn't question her story. They

771
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.599
believed that Kit must have tossed it there. As he

772
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:51.320
drove by, possibly to frame her. If that were true,

773
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:54.239
it meant that Kit had possession of both his own

774
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:59.159
phone and Pam's phone up until whenever he allegedly threw

775
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:03.159
hers into Jones Yard, But the location data told a

776
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:07.199
different story. On November nineteenth, the day after the murders,

777
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:11.280
both Kit's and Pam's phones were turned on and pinging

778
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:15.039
off of cell phone towers. However, they moved in completely

779
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:18.679
different directions At the same time. Kit's phone was traveling

780
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:23.280
south from Pembroke to Fort Campbell, where he worked. Pam's phone,

781
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:26.920
on the other hand, was heading northeast, first connecting two

782
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:30.400
towers in Elkton and then Russellville. So that's a big

783
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:33.800
problem for the prosecution's theory because Kit couldn't be in

784
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:37.559
two places at once. So this was clear objective evidence

785
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:41.360
that someone else had possession of Pam's phone after the murders,

786
00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:45.679
and yet instead of investigating that lead, prosecutors doubled down

787
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:46.960
on their case against Kit.

788
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.639
Where was Laura Spencer at the time of the murders.

789
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:55.000
When Calvin was killed in the morning, Laura was at work.

790
00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:58.119
She had left early that morning because she had clinicals.

791
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:02.079
She taught nursing. Soul is definitely gone at that point

792
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:05.519
in time. She came home in the afternoon. She and

793
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:11.360
Kit were together that afternoon. They both told the story

794
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:13.639
that they had dinner together. It was their anniversary, so

795
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.719
they spent some special time together. And then she and

796
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:19.960
Kit were home that night as well. When Pam's body

797
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:21.360
or Pam's car was burned.

798
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:26.519
Two people would have been necessary for these murders to

799
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:28.960
take place. I would assume. I think that's why I'm

800
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:32.280
asking about Laura. Could she have been an accomplice right now?

801
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:33.039
It's a good question.

802
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:37.119
And also Pam's phone was actively moving.

803
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:40.920
Right the day after the murders. We'll be back after

804
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:41.440
a break.

805
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:51.639
The hearsay testimony presented a trial didn't look great for Kit.

806
00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:55.840
The prosecution brought forward four witnesses who claimed that just

807
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:59.079
weeks before their deaths, Calvin and Pam had told them,

808
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.960
if anything what happens to us, the police should take

809
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.039
a close look at Kit Martin. One of the most

810
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:09.960
compelling witnesses was Pam's coworker, Penny Case. She recalled a

811
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:12.920
conversation in which she asked Pam why she and Calvin

812
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.519
weren't planning to visit her family in Michigan for Thanksgiving.

813
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:21.320
According to Penny, Pam's response was chilling. Quote call and

814
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:22.960
I are not going to leave the house at the

815
00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:25.880
same time. We're afraid if we do, we'll come back

816
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:28.320
and Kit will be in our house waiting for us.

817
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.559
Penny startled, pressed further, do you really think Kit would

818
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:36.679
hurt you? Pam's replied, yes, I do. If anything happens

819
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.320
to us, tell the police. All they need to do

820
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:43.559
is look at that Yahoo across the street. The testimony

821
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:45.960
certainly painted Kit in a bad light, but keep in

822
00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.719
mind that none of the witnesses recalled Pam or a

823
00:45:48.840 --> 00:45:53.320
Calvin mentioning any specific threats from Kit. They testified only

824
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:56.719
to Calvin and Pam's fears, not to anything Kit had

825
00:45:56.760 --> 00:46:00.760
actually said or done. Also, the timing of these statements

826
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:05.599
was significant. They were made shortly after private investigator Mary

827
00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:10.159
Martin's visited Calvin for the second time. Meeting Calvin knew

828
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:14.239
that Kit was looking into his potential court martial testimony

829
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:19.119
and his relationship with Joan. This raised an important question.

830
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:23.159
Were Calvin and Pam genuinely afraid of Kit or were

831
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.280
they reacting to the legal and personal entanglements between them,

832
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:30.440
so Calvin and Pam were still friendly with Joan.

833
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:35.480
I honestly don't know the nature of Joan's relationship with Pam.

834
00:46:35.760 --> 00:46:38.079
She and Calvin were very close, Like we said, there

835
00:46:38.119 --> 00:46:40.800
were rumors around town that they were having an affair,

836
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:44.239
and so I think that she and Calvin were still

837
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:47.039
friendly at this time, but I don't know for sure.

838
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:51.480
One of the key points of contention at trial was

839
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:55.840
Kit's timeline and how his home securities camera factored into it.

840
00:46:56.639 --> 00:46:59.639
Kit had two security cameras, one on the back porch

841
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:02.960
where which recorded any movement in or out through the

842
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:06.119
rear of the house, and one facing the driveway, which

843
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:11.039
also captured part of the Phillips driveway across the street. However,

844
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:14.840
on the day of the murders, the driveway camera wasn't working.

845
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:18.519
Kit later discovered that the wire had been cut, though

846
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:22.559
it was never proven who was responsible. Kit did not

847
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:25.760
have a camera covering his front door, and that door

848
00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:30.400
itself became a major issue during the trial. Kit claimed

849
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:34.639
that his front door was practically inoperable. He explained that

850
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:37.079
when he moved into the house, it had been sitting

851
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:41.039
vacant for two years and the wooden door frame had warped.

852
00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:43.559
In an effort to fix it over time, he had

853
00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:47.960
installed multiple dead bolt locks, used a door stop to

854
00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:51.039
keep the door straight, and nail parts of the door

855
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:55.559
into place, and wedged insulation around it. According to Kit,

856
00:47:55.719 --> 00:47:59.199
this maid using the front door nearly impossible, which was

857
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.760
critical to his defense because if he couldn't use the

858
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:05.800
front door or the front windows, which she said were

859
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:08.719
also blocked, then he couldn't have left the house to

860
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:12.440
commit the murders without being seen on his security camera.

861
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:17.840
The prosecution dismissed Kit's claims as nonsense, but they never

862
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:21.719
actually proved that the door was functional. They presented no

863
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:25.119
video or photos of the door being used. There was

864
00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:28.360
no testimony about the door from investigators who searched Kit's

865
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:32.000
house the day after the murders, and no physical evidence

866
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:37.199
contradicting Kit's claims. It wasn't just Kit's word either. A

867
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:40.079
contractor who worked on Kit's home testified that the front

868
00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:45.199
door was extremely difficult to open. Laura Enerson Austin also

869
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:48.079
confirmed that in the time they lived there, they never

870
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:51.920
saw anyone use the front door. With that in mind,

871
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:55.519
let's examine the timeline of events starting with the morning

872
00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:59.000
of November eighteenth. We know that Calvin was killed somewhere

873
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:03.199
between six thirty am and ten fifty am. Kit had

874
00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:06.920
a window of opportunity between seven twenty three am and

875
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:10.320
nine to eleven AM when he was home alone. But

876
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:14.000
Kit's security camera never recorded him leaving the house during

877
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:18.199
that time. Did the security camera show him leaving at

878
00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:19.000
some point during the.

879
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:22.119
Day, Yeah, I mean the camera showed him when he

880
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:24.599
left for work at nine to eleven AM. So all

881
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:27.119
the other times that we can talk about with Kit

882
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:30.039
coming and going, we're all captured on that back door

883
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:31.000
security camera.

884
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:35.760
Well, next, let's take the evening of November eighteenth. Pam

885
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:38.840
was likely killed around five thirty PM while she was

886
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:42.000
on the phone with Marlen. The rock Ed was probably

887
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:45.639
killed around the same time or shortly after. At five

888
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:49.000
twenty three pm, Laura's kids left for dinner at Chick

889
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:52.159
fil A, leaving Laura and Kit home alone to celebrate

890
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:55.480
their anniversary. For Kits to have killed Pam and Ed,

891
00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.199
he would have had to leave through the front door,

892
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:03.280
which we already talked to was basically unusable, and he

893
00:50:03.280 --> 00:50:05.960
would have had to sneak out without Laura noticing and

894
00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:09.760
be gone for at least thirty to forty minutes unless

895
00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:11.199
Laura was with him.

896
00:50:11.639 --> 00:50:14.800
Yeah, if Kit was the killer and Laura was his accomplice,

897
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:16.800
then all you could throw all of this out the window.

898
00:50:17.199 --> 00:50:20.159
Laura testified that Kit was with her all evening, making dinner,

899
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.199
spending special time together because it was rare for them

900
00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:27.480
to be home alone without the kids and watching TV. Additionally,

901
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.599
we know that Pam's car was moved by the killer

902
00:50:29.639 --> 00:50:33.719
between six pm and seven pm. Marlene le Rock saw

903
00:50:33.760 --> 00:50:37.039
the car parked facing the house at six pm. When

904
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:39.920
she returned at seven pm, the car the car had

905
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:42.920
been turned around. She's very observed. I don't know if

906
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:45.360
I would notice our neighbor's car being I think she

907
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:46.639
was on alert.

908
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:49.239
Because she was, she could figure she could tell something

909
00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:52.719
with weird girls, the phone call and the door was open,

910
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:55.280
and I think she This is a little bit of

911
00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:57.840
an aside, but I think she became very close to

912
00:50:57.880 --> 00:51:00.599
being the fourth victim. So I think she like because

913
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:02.559
she stepped into the house at one point when the

914
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:05.719
killer was probably there, and then she backed out and

915
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.159
decided not to But yeah, she knew the timeline of one.

916
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:12.719
Yeah, that's that is scary. This means the killer had

917
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:14.760
to have been gone for at least thirty minutes, which

918
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:18.119
contradict Laura's testimony that Kit was home with her the

919
00:51:18.280 --> 00:51:21.800
entire time. Lastly, let's look at the early morning hours

920
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:24.760
of the nineteenth when Pam's car was set ablaze. We

921
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:27.920
know the fire on Rosetown Road was set around one

922
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:33.599
forty five am. The prosecution's examination of Kit's phone showed

923
00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:36.440
that before going to bed, he had set an alarm

924
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.119
for one ten am. At first glance, that looks really

925
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:43.199
bad for Kit. Was he setting the alarm so he

926
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:47.320
could go dispose of the bodies. Kit's explanation is that

927
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:50.440
he had a kerosene heater that he had just started

928
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:54.519
using for this season. Their regular propane heat didn't cut

929
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:57.800
it during the colder months. When using the kerosene heater,

930
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:00.320
he would get up at least once a night to

931
00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:03.599
check on it. Laura confirmed in her testimony that Kit

932
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:06.800
normally did this, and the weather had gotten colder in

933
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:10.039
the days leading up to November eighteenth, so it would

934
00:52:10.079 --> 00:52:12.639
make sense that he was starting to use the kerosene

935
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:16.119
heater at that point. Laura said that she remembered Kit

936
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:19.000
getting up when his alarm went off at one ten am.

937
00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:21.960
She also said that when she got up around two

938
00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:25.239
am to use the restroom, she saw Kit in the den,

939
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:28.960
either watching TV or on his computer. Even if her

940
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:32.000
time estimate was off by fifteen minutes. Either way, Kit

941
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:35.960
still couldn't have been out on Rosetown Road setting fire

942
00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.400
to the car. It is kind of weird, though, that

943
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:40.760
he was up on his computer at two am.

944
00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:43.400
Well, I mean, he got up to check on the

945
00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:45.960
kerosene heater and then apparently he couldn't get back to

946
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:48.159
sleep or decided just to chill out for a bit

947
00:52:48.199 --> 00:52:49.239
before going back to bed.

948
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:53.239
The prosecution argued that Kit could have sneaked out to

949
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:56.679
commit the murders and later burned Pam's car, but in

950
00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.239
their versions of events, he would have to do it

951
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:02.800
without noticing and by using the front door, which several

952
00:53:02.800 --> 00:53:05.039
people said was unusable, or, as.

953
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:07.280
You pointed out, that Laura could have been an accomplice

954
00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:08.800
and could have been lying for him as well.

955
00:53:09.519 --> 00:53:12.159
While the timeline was an airtight proof of Kit's innocence,

956
00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:15.119
it raised serious doubts about whether he could have committed

957
00:53:15.119 --> 00:53:19.880
the crimes as alleged. One more quick thing about the

958
00:53:19.880 --> 00:53:23.480
evidence presented by the prosecution. There was no forensic evidence

959
00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:27.280
other than the forty five shell casing found five months

960
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:30.559
after the fact that linked Kit Martin to the crime scene.

961
00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:33.800
None of his DNA was found. Despite lab testing of

962
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:37.320
several samples taking at the crime scene and from a

963
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:40.920
Danzero's car, most of the samples taken at the crime

964
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:45.119
scene could be identified as belonging to the victims. There

965
00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:48.440
was one sample that showed a major DNA profile match

966
00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:54.280
to Pam and a minor DNA profile for an unknown person. Pam,

967
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:57.880
at Kelvin, and Kitt were all excluded from that sample.

968
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:03.360
There were hairs found AD's car that were deemed microscopically

969
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:07.519
similar to Kit's hair, but none that had enough DNA

970
00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:13.039
for testing, and labeling a hare as microscopically similar is

971
00:54:13.159 --> 00:54:18.480
essentially meaningless. Many people have hair with similar microscopic characteristics.

972
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:22.519
No testing was done to compare any samples to other

973
00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:26.800
potential suspects, such as Joan or people close to Joan,

974
00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:28.960
like her boyfriend or her son.

975
00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:33.320
Lisa Petrie, the manager of the diner where Joan worked,

976
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:37.079
testified that Joan was acting unusually excited the day after

977
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:40.920
the murders. According to Lisa Joan couldn't stop talking about

978
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:44.519
the case. She was strangely happy, almost obsessed with it.

979
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:48.960
One particular comment stood out to Lisa. Joan said that

980
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:52.400
whoever had killed Calvin had let his pet snakes loose

981
00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.440
in the house. This was an especially bizarre statement because

982
00:54:56.480 --> 00:54:59.599
nothing about snakes had been reported in the news, and

983
00:54:59.639 --> 00:55:03.599
the police report made no mention of snakes. Lisa Petrie

984
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:06.800
was so unnerved by Joan's behavior and her comments that

985
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:10.760
she called Detective Scott Smith to report it. Smith spoke

986
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:13.039
to her and noted that there were no pet snakes

987
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:16.039
inside the residence or any evidence that there had been

988
00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:19.679
snakes inside the residence. Then, like so many other things

989
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:23.039
in this case that didn't support Kit Martin's guilt, Smith

990
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:26.800
dropped it and didn't go digging any further. There actually

991
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.920
was evidence that Calvin kept snakes, most likely in the

992
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:33.480
shed behind his house or in his warehouse. His friend

993
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:36.840
Marlene Laroque said that Calvin kept venomous snakes as a

994
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:42.000
security measure to deter intruders. Kit also remembered Joan saying

995
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.719
something about Calvin snakes at some point, So what happened

996
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:48.480
to the snakes and why would Joan say that there

997
00:55:48.519 --> 00:55:50.800
was never any other mention of snakes, Like no one

998
00:55:50.840 --> 00:55:53.480
ever said anything about finding any snakes or anything. So

999
00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:56.440
if there were snakes, they were set loose and they

1000
00:55:57.000 --> 00:55:58.639
just vanished into the wilderness.

1001
00:55:59.519 --> 00:56:01.840
So there was no evidence that snakes had lived in

1002
00:56:01.880 --> 00:56:03.800
the house. There weren't snake cages or.

1003
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.199
No, like I said. If he did have snakes, they

1004
00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:08.760
were probably in his warehouse or in the shed behind

1005
00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:11.400
his house. But I never heard anything about any evidence

1006
00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:16.599
of like snake cages or anything. Not long after the murders,

1007
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:19.360
Lisa and the owner of the diner finally decided to

1008
00:56:19.400 --> 00:56:22.239
fire Joan. They had wanted to for a long time,

1009
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.239
but they were afraid that she would retaliate. They had

1010
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:28.440
grown fed up with her rudeness to customers and coworkers,

1011
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:32.679
and her overt flirtation with male customers in an attempt

1012
00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:35.840
to get bigger tips. When they finally fired her, they

1013
00:56:35.840 --> 00:56:38.480
were so concerned about her reaction that they had a

1014
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:41.760
police officer on site, worried that she might do something

1015
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:45.800
erratic or dangerous. At the time of the murders, Jones's

1016
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:49.199
boyfriend was William Stokes, a man with two brothers in

1017
00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:52.960
law enforcement. One brother was a volunteer firefighter who was

1018
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:55.920
among the first on the scene when Pam's car was

1019
00:56:55.960 --> 00:56:59.519
found burned. The other brother was a Christian County sheriff's

1020
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:03.599
deputy who had been at both crime scenes. Kit's defense

1021
00:57:03.679 --> 00:57:07.599
team issued a subpoena for William Stokes to testify. However,

1022
00:57:07.679 --> 00:57:10.639
the private investigator hired to serve him was unable to

1023
00:57:10.679 --> 00:57:15.400
locate him, and so the subpoena was never delivered. The

1024
00:57:15.440 --> 00:57:18.039
defense closed their case with Kit taking the stand in

1025
00:57:18.039 --> 00:57:20.840
his own defense. He wanted the jury to hear directly

1026
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:24.239
from him, hoping to convince them that the alleged motive

1027
00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:26.920
for the crime that he wanted to stop Calvin from

1028
00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:31.280
testifying at his court martial was simply not true. According

1029
00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:34.320
to Kit, Calvin's testimony would have actually helped his case,

1030
00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:37.320
not heard it. Calvin had been close to Joan, yet

1031
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:40.559
he had never mentioned anything about her claims of abuse,

1032
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:45.639
sexual assault, or molestation. To reinforce this point, KITT's court

1033
00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:48.840
martial defense team had even subpoenaed Calvin to ensure that

1034
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:51.880
he would testify. Why would I go through the trouble

1035
00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:54.880
of subpoenaing him, Kit argued, only to turn round and

1036
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:59.440
kill him. After seven hours of deliberation, the jury returned

1037
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:04.599
with their vertise guilty on all counts the following day.

1038
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:07.920
During the penalty phase, they recommended life in prison without

1039
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:11.480
the possibility of parole, a sentence that the judge upheld.

1040
00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:16.239
Following the verdict, Kit issued a final statement quote, I've

1041
00:58:16.280 --> 00:58:18.639
always been willing to give my life for my country,

1042
00:58:18.679 --> 00:58:23.280
and now they have taken it. Kit's defense team swiftly

1043
00:58:23.320 --> 00:58:27.400
filed an appeal, arguing multiple points of legal error. They

1044
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:30.639
contended that the hearsay statements should never have been admitted,

1045
00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:34.199
that Joan and Elijah should have been compelled to testify,

1046
00:58:34.760 --> 00:58:40.639
and that key alternative perpetrator evidence had been unfairly excluded. Additionally,

1047
00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:43.679
they challenged the validity of the forty five caliber shell

1048
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:47.480
casing found by Diana Phillips five months after the murders,

1049
00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:50.519
arguing that it should never have been allowed as evidence.

1050
00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:56.159
That last point raises serious concerns. Diana had reportedly failed

1051
00:58:56.159 --> 00:59:00.360
a polygraph test about discovering the shellcasing. While the exact

1052
00:59:00.480 --> 00:59:04.800
questions and her responses remain unknown, the fact that investigators

1053
00:59:04.840 --> 00:59:08.320
were skeptical enough to administer a polygraph and that she

1054
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:12.440
failed cast stoubts on the integrity of that piece of evidence.

1055
00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:15.880
Diana and her nephew Matt had been pushing hard for

1056
00:59:16.000 --> 00:59:20.000
Kit's arrest, firmly believing that he was the killer. Could

1057
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:23.360
they have planted the shellcasing themselves or did someone else

1058
00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:25.880
plan it and then tip them off to its location.

1059
00:59:26.840 --> 00:59:29.760
Diana had said that she found the shellcasing while cleaning,

1060
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:33.000
but the security camera footage from when she found the

1061
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:37.320
shellcasing Diana and Matt had installed security cameras after the murders.

1062
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:41.119
The security camera shows her crawling around on the porch

1063
00:59:41.159 --> 00:59:44.719
on her hands and knees for thirteen minutes before finding

1064
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:48.639
the shell casing. She wasn't cleaning, She was clearly looking

1065
00:59:48.679 --> 00:59:53.960
for something. The truth behind those questions remains a mystery. Ultimately,

1066
00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:59.119
the Kentucky Supreme Court denied Kit's appeal. However, two justices dissented,

1067
00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:04.559
calling the u evidence against him underwhelming. Although Kit was

1068
01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:08.599
already tried, convicted, and serving his sentence, some new evidence

1069
01:00:08.639 --> 01:00:12.119
arose in late twenty twenty three that Detective Smith said

1070
01:00:12.239 --> 01:00:16.320
further reinforced Kit's guilt. During a phone call from prison

1071
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:19.559
with his sister, Kit asked her to recover a box

1072
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:22.199
that he had hidden inside the stairs of the Raleigh,

1073
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:25.639
North Carolina house that he had lived in after the murders.

1074
01:00:26.360 --> 01:00:28.440
He didn't tell his sister what was in the box,

1075
01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:32.519
but according to Detective Scott Smith, he was definitely urgent

1076
01:00:32.599 --> 01:00:35.519
that his sister find it before the house was sold.

1077
01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:39.639
Detectives flew to Raleigh and recovered the box, which they

1078
01:00:39.679 --> 01:00:43.480
said contained a twenty two caliber AR fifteen and a

1079
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:47.519
silencer that fit both the AR fifteen and the Glock

1080
01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:51.800
forty five that prosecutors believed was used to kill Calvin Phillips.

1081
01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:55.400
This is an interesting find because one question has always

1082
01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:59.079
been how no one heard gunshots coming from the Phillips home.

1083
01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:02.559
While all the homes in that area aren't super close together,

1084
01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:05.760
they're also not very far apart. It's about one hundred

1085
01:01:05.800 --> 01:01:08.800
feet between Calvin and Pam's house and the house next door.

1086
01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:12.599
Calvin was killed on a Wednesday morning. Pam and Ed

1087
01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:16.480
killed Wednesday early evening, around five thirty or six, so

1088
01:01:16.559 --> 01:01:20.159
it's surprising that no one reported hearing gunshots, So a

1089
01:01:20.239 --> 01:01:25.119
silencer might help to explain that. Emilio Corsetti, who wrote

1090
01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:27.639
the book I Will Ruin You, which was my primary

1091
01:01:27.679 --> 01:01:30.719
source for this case. He's been a staunch advocate for

1092
01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:34.320
Kit Martin's innocence. When news of this new evidence came

1093
01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:37.320
out in twenty twenty four, he wrote a blog about it,

1094
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:42.079
downplaying the significance of this so called bombshell. He teas

1095
01:01:42.199 --> 01:01:45.199
that quote, there are details about this new evidence that

1096
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:47.920
I'm not ready to share just yet, that will be

1097
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:51.199
done at the appropriate time and venue. Oh now, I

1098
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.639
haven't seen any more from him on that topic since

1099
01:01:53.719 --> 01:01:56.239
that blog, which was almost a year ago is April

1100
01:01:56.280 --> 01:02:00.199
twenty twenty four. But even without these secret details he

1101
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:04.599
claims to have, he makes some good points in the blog. First,

1102
01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:08.280
during Kit's trial, the prosecution was so sure that they

1103
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:10.960
already had the twenty two caliber gun that killed Pam

1104
01:02:11.000 --> 01:02:13.840
and ed it was one of the three twenty two

1105
01:02:13.880 --> 01:02:16.840
caliber weapons that they had already seized from Kit. They said.

1106
01:02:17.559 --> 01:02:20.519
Now Detective Smith is telling the news media that he

1107
01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:23.480
believes this new weapon is the murder weapon, So it

1108
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:25.920
raises the question were they not convinced they had the

1109
01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:29.880
right weapon before. Also, they said that Kit's glock forty

1110
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:33.000
five was used to kill Calvin. Why would he put

1111
01:02:33.079 --> 01:02:35.480
one murder weapon in his gun safe where it would

1112
01:02:35.519 --> 01:02:38.239
be easily found, and the other one he would go

1113
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:40.480
to great lengths to height under the stairwell of his

1114
01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:43.079
new home. It just doesn't make sense that he would

1115
01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:45.679
have two murder weapons and he would treat them both

1116
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:49.920
so differently. Lastly, Detective Smith and others made a big

1117
01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:53.280
deal about Kit owning a silencer, saying there's no reason

1118
01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:56.639
for someone to own one, But in his blog, Corsetti

1119
01:02:56.679 --> 01:03:00.519
points out that silencers are perfectly legal in Kentucky and

1120
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:02.920
that many people like to use them, either for hearing

1121
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:06.760
protection or because they don't want to disturb people nearby.

1122
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.760
And lastly, silencers don't completely eliminate the noise of a

1123
01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:14.039
gun firing. At best, they reduce it by twenty five

1124
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:18.920
to thirty five percent. Detective Scott Smith, a key figure

1125
01:03:19.079 --> 01:03:23.079
in Kit's indictment and conviction, is a controversial figure. His

1126
01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:26.320
testimony before the grand jury, as one cell phone expert

1127
01:03:26.320 --> 01:03:30.119
put it, quote, shows a distinct lack of knowledge, understanding,

1128
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:33.679
or honesty about the underlying data. In other words, he

1129
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:38.440
either misrepresented the evidence or simply didn't understand it. Beyond that,

1130
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:41.840
Smith failed to pursue multiple leads that didn't align with

1131
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:45.039
the theory that Kit was the killer. He ignored Lisa

1132
01:03:45.079 --> 01:03:49.079
Petrie's report about Jones's giddy behavior after the murders and

1133
01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:52.880
her eerie comment about snakes. He overlooked the fact that

1134
01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:56.800
Joan had possession of Pam Phillip's phone, repeatedly trying to

1135
01:03:56.840 --> 01:04:00.599
guess the passcode until she wiped it clean. Smith made

1136
01:04:00.639 --> 01:04:04.840
a classic investigative error, whether intentional or not, of deciding

1137
01:04:04.880 --> 01:04:08.519
on a suspect first and dismissing evidence that pointed elsewhere.

1138
01:04:09.440 --> 01:04:12.679
Perhaps most shocking, during the two years he led the investigation,

1139
01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:16.599
Smith never once called Kit In for an interview. He

1140
01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:19.360
never asked him about the one ten am alarm or

1141
01:04:19.440 --> 01:04:23.280
any other key details. Even if he believed Kit was lying,

1142
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:27.920
an interview could have opened new investigative paths. And there's more.

1143
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:30.559
At the time, Smith was a defendant in a civil

1144
01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:34.760
case accusing him and other Kentucky State Police officers of

1145
01:04:34.800 --> 01:04:39.559
falsifying evidence and withholding exculpatory information in a separate case.

1146
01:04:40.119 --> 01:04:43.199
The outcome of that lawsuit remains unclear, but it raises

1147
01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:48.559
serious questions about Smith's credibility. We've talked a lot about

1148
01:04:48.639 --> 01:04:50.960
Kit Martin and Joan Harmon in this case, but I

1149
01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:53.039
want to make sure we don't forget about the victims.

1150
01:04:53.960 --> 01:04:56.800
Calvin Phillips filled his time on earth with a zest

1151
01:04:56.840 --> 01:04:59.800
for life and laughter. He traveled the world both in

1152
01:04:59.800 --> 01:05:03.639
the military as well as a private citizen, having seen

1153
01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:06.960
numerous continents, countries, and people all over the US and

1154
01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:11.000
the world, never ceasing to be amazed at nature, God's beauty,

1155
01:05:11.159 --> 01:05:15.079
or simple things that make the world great. Pamela Phillips

1156
01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:17.440
made the most of her time as a mother, coworker,

1157
01:05:17.480 --> 01:05:20.920
and citizen. She spent a near decade devoting her time

1158
01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:23.000
as a stay at home mom, and then re entered

1159
01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:26.280
the workforce with vigor. She was active in the community

1160
01:05:26.360 --> 01:05:29.159
and often spent her free time to better those in need.

1161
01:05:29.920 --> 01:05:33.800
Both were loving parents, active citizens, and extremely important to

1162
01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:36.760
those who knew them dearly and had the privilege to

1163
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:40.719
call them family or friends. Edward Danzero was a gifted

1164
01:05:40.800 --> 01:05:44.159
jazz pianist who spent most of his life spreading love, music,

1165
01:05:44.239 --> 01:05:47.239
and warmth to all those around him. With a zeal

1166
01:05:47.320 --> 01:05:50.039
to live every day to its fullest, Ed could turn

1167
01:05:50.119 --> 01:05:54.079
each chance encounter into a genuine connection, which is why

1168
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:59.320
he was known in the community as an extraordinary host, son, father, partner,

1169
01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:03.480
and friends ed never differentiated between anyone blood or not.

1170
01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:09.960
Rest in peace. Calvin Pam and ed Well said, just

1171
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:12.239
a few updates I was able to find since the

1172
01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:16.079
trial ended. Kit's daughter Mackenzie, who was pregnant when she

1173
01:06:16.239 --> 01:06:19.119
testified at her dad's trial, gave birth to a girl

1174
01:06:19.159 --> 01:06:23.320
that she and her husband named Nora. James. Kit's son Chase,

1175
01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:26.519
has a three year old daughter named Riley. He owns

1176
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:30.639
a landscaping business, and Kit's youngest son, Zachary, was studying

1177
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:35.119
to be a veterinarian. Joan's first husband, Carlos Guerra, after

1178
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:38.440
he got his citizenship, hired an attorney to file divorce

1179
01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:41.519
papers and attempt to gain custody of his girls, se

1180
01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:45.679
and Alma. The divorce was finalized in April of twenty sixteen,

1181
01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:50.000
and Carlos was granted visitation rights Joan and her kids.

1182
01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:53.960
They've kept a low profile on social media. In prison,

1183
01:06:54.159 --> 01:06:58.639
Kit teaches ged classes to other inmates. He's involved in

1184
01:06:58.679 --> 01:07:00.960
a Bible study group, and has been learning to play

1185
01:07:00.960 --> 01:07:04.719
the guitar, as well as taking violin lessons from other inmates.

1186
01:07:05.599 --> 01:07:08.079
In twenty twenty three, while still waiting for the outcome

1187
01:07:08.119 --> 01:07:10.800
of his appeal, he told Laura not to wait for

1188
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:15.119
him any longer. Laura moved from North Carolina to Wisconsin,

1189
01:07:15.159 --> 01:07:18.760
where she is working as a travel nurse. There's an

1190
01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:23.000
active Facebook group called Free Christian Kit Martin that has

1191
01:07:23.079 --> 01:07:25.960
over two thousand members who believe that Kit is innocent.

1192
01:07:27.239 --> 01:07:30.519
There's a few things I want to talk about here. First,

1193
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:34.000
do you think that Kit Martin committed these murders?

1194
01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:36.519
Well, I have a question for you. First, Okay, what

1195
01:07:36.599 --> 01:07:37.239
was your source?

1196
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:40.239
My main source was a book called I Will Ruin

1197
01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:42.440
You by Emilio Corsetti.

1198
01:07:42.559 --> 01:07:46.440
The third, do you think that mister Corsetti told the

1199
01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:50.400
story in he told the whole story? And was he

1200
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:51.840
biased in telling the story?

1201
01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:53.800
So it's a good question. So, first of all, it

1202
01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:56.480
wasn't my only source. There was a dateline on the case.

1203
01:07:56.519 --> 01:07:59.440
I read a bunch of newspaper articles and other articles

1204
01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:06.079
about the case. Emilio Corsetti clearly believes that Kit is

1205
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:10.119
innocent and was wrongfully convicted of this crime. But his

1206
01:08:10.159 --> 01:08:13.079
book is very well sourced. I believe it's very accurate.

1207
01:08:13.159 --> 01:08:15.280
So you can be accurate and still have a slant,

1208
01:08:15.920 --> 01:08:17.600
you know, or an opinion on the case. And he

1209
01:08:17.640 --> 01:08:21.000
clearly has an opinion. But I do believe that all

1210
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:24.039
of the facts laid out in his book are accurate.

1211
01:08:24.159 --> 01:08:28.359
As the evidence you presented very well as did mister Corsetti.

1212
01:08:28.920 --> 01:08:30.600
I mean to me, it seems like there is definitely

1213
01:08:30.680 --> 01:08:33.560
reasonable doubt and I don't know if I would have

1214
01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:36.039
found him guilty, yeah, had I been a juror.

1215
01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:39.000
But do you think, like, take that aside, the reasonable

1216
01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:41.600
doubt question, do you think that he did it? Though

1217
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:43.159
in your heart of hearts, even if you think there

1218
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:45.520
was reasonable doubt and you wouldn't have convicted him.

1219
01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:49.680
Well, again, the evidence was presented to me, I don't

1220
01:08:49.680 --> 01:08:52.760
think so. Yeah, I think that you know, the the

1221
01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:56.560
evidence against you know, like Joan Joan, you know, knowing

1222
01:08:56.600 --> 01:08:59.920
his weapons, having access to his weapons. But then Joe

1223
01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:03.399
would have had to have had an accomplice, was you know,

1224
01:09:03.479 --> 01:09:05.800
was it her boyfriend? I would hope that she wouldn't

1225
01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:08.039
have gotten her son involved. I don't know what's your opinion.

1226
01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:11.079
This case has been like a roller coaster foraly. When

1227
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:13.199
I was researching it, like I started, the first thing

1228
01:09:13.239 --> 01:09:16.800
I did was watch the Dateline episode which leaned heavily on.

1229
01:09:17.079 --> 01:09:20.439
Was Kit featured in the episode. He was Yeah, I

1230
01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:22.159
think I would like to hear his voice. I would

1231
01:09:22.159 --> 01:09:24.560
mean to see him. I haven't even seen a picture.

1232
01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:26.800
I don't know why. That always seems to me like

1233
01:09:26.880 --> 01:09:28.439
I could make a better.

1234
01:09:28.439 --> 01:09:30.439
Yeah, he was featured in the episode. They did have

1235
01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:34.000
an interview with him, but they also featured heavily Calvin

1236
01:09:34.039 --> 01:09:37.720
and Pam's son Matt, and Calvin's sister Diana, who were

1237
01:09:37.800 --> 01:09:41.279
very clearly of the opinion that Kit they kick committed

1238
01:09:41.279 --> 01:09:43.600
the crime. So for me, it's been a roller coaster.

1239
01:09:43.720 --> 01:09:45.840
Like I say, when I started, I was like, oh, yeah,

1240
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:48.239
he probably did it, And then as I read the book,

1241
01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:51.000
I was firmly convinced that he didn't do it. But

1242
01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:55.439
then the things that make me wonder are the hearsay evidence.

1243
01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:58.199
Does make me wonder a little bit. If four people

1244
01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:02.920
all testified to the fact that Calvin or Pam were said, Hey,

1245
01:10:02.960 --> 01:10:05.159
if anything happens to us, it was kitch.

1246
01:10:05.319 --> 01:10:07.720
I am wondering what happened there, because you portrayed kid

1247
01:10:07.720 --> 01:10:09.720
as a pretty you know, like it seemed like he

1248
01:10:09.800 --> 01:10:12.199
was a good guy. He was pretty honest, right, court

1249
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:16.439
martials seemed a little bit of a fiasco. Yeah, So yeah,

1250
01:10:16.479 --> 01:10:20.039
I am curious what happened with the relationship with Kelvin

1251
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:20.760
and Pam.

1252
01:10:20.640 --> 01:10:23.479
Right for them to be that afraid of him that

1253
01:10:23.640 --> 01:10:26.399
it feels like there's something there. The other thing, the

1254
01:10:26.439 --> 01:10:29.359
whole setting the alarm at one ten am. I know,

1255
01:10:29.439 --> 01:10:31.760
Kid has an explanation for it, and it sounds like

1256
01:10:32.279 --> 01:10:35.359
it is something he legitimately did get up and check

1257
01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:37.840
on the kerosene heater, But it does seem like quite

1258
01:10:37.880 --> 01:10:40.319
a coincidence that, oh yeah, he set his alarm for

1259
01:10:40.359 --> 01:10:43.439
one ten am and the bodies were moved at one

1260
01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:44.880
thirty or one forty five.

1261
01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:48.000
Sitting an alarm at one ten instead of one is

1262
01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:52.319
a little strange. But I would think if your intent

1263
01:10:52.439 --> 01:10:55.840
was to go, you know, do this heinous act, would

1264
01:10:55.880 --> 01:10:58.359
you need to set an alarm? Would you be falling asleep?

1265
01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:00.640
Mm hmm, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, I

1266
01:11:00.680 --> 01:11:03.720
think he would be like nervous and like formulating in

1267
01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:05.439
your mind, like how am I going to do this?

1268
01:11:05.600 --> 01:11:07.279
I don't think you would need to set an alarm?

1269
01:11:07.399 --> 01:11:11.239
Yeah, I agree. And then the other thing that makes

1270
01:11:11.279 --> 01:11:13.000
me wonder a little bit is the fact that they

1271
01:11:13.079 --> 01:11:16.560
found this silencer and this gun that Kit apparently had

1272
01:11:16.600 --> 01:11:19.319
hidden and told his sister to go to go and

1273
01:11:19.359 --> 01:11:22.119
get it. I mean that that does seem suspicious to me.

1274
01:11:22.239 --> 01:11:23.880
But if it was the murder weapon, why would he

1275
01:11:23.960 --> 01:11:24.479
have kept it?

1276
01:11:24.640 --> 01:11:25.119
Yeah?

1277
01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:29.319
And where had it been? So did the police searched

1278
01:11:29.319 --> 01:11:29.680
his house?

1279
01:11:29.720 --> 01:11:31.520
They searched his house the day after the murders.

1280
01:11:31.520 --> 01:11:33.079
So yeah, I don't know necessary if it were the

1281
01:11:33.159 --> 01:11:35.760
murder weapon. I don't know. Know I'm sounding like I am,

1282
01:11:35.920 --> 01:11:38.079
I am biased, but I mean I would think if

1283
01:11:38.119 --> 01:11:40.319
it were the murder weapon, he would have disposed of

1284
01:11:40.359 --> 01:11:43.600
it and that had it moved and yeah.

1285
01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:45.199
But on the other hand, so those are the things

1286
01:11:45.199 --> 01:11:46.760
that make me wonder a little bit. But on the

1287
01:11:46.760 --> 01:11:50.720
other hand, like the dog tag found that just there's

1288
01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:54.760
no way if Kit Martin committed these murders that he's

1289
01:11:54.760 --> 01:11:56.680
going to leave a dog tag with his name on

1290
01:11:56.720 --> 01:11:59.000
it at the scene. That just doesn't make any sense.

1291
01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:02.279
That just seems so clearly planted by someone else.

1292
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:05.159
Yeah, And that wasn't even planted, it was it was

1293
01:12:05.239 --> 01:12:07.640
kind of left out in the open, Yeah, which is strange.

1294
01:12:07.680 --> 01:12:10.479
That was left right by Calvin's wallet and his phone.

1295
01:12:10.920 --> 01:12:14.119
That and the fact that Pam or that Joan had

1296
01:12:14.119 --> 01:12:17.399
Pam's cell phone like that again makes no sense that

1297
01:12:17.520 --> 01:12:20.439
she had the cell phone, she brought it into the

1298
01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:22.600
AT and T store, she kind of freaked out.

1299
01:12:22.680 --> 01:12:24.960
What do you think her intent was in bringing it

1300
01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:27.640
to the AT and T store rather than bringing it

1301
01:12:27.640 --> 01:12:28.279
to the police.

1302
01:12:28.319 --> 01:12:29.880
The only thing I can think of is that she

1303
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:32.960
really wanted to get in the phone to see what

1304
01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:35.760
was on it, or maybe to you know, get rid

1305
01:12:35.760 --> 01:12:38.359
of anything that was incriminating. And maybe she thought, oh,

1306
01:12:38.359 --> 01:12:40.039
if I take it into the AT and T store,

1307
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:41.880
maybe they'll just be able to unlock it for me

1308
01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:45.960
without questioning it. And so yeah, that's the only thing

1309
01:12:45.960 --> 01:12:46.560
I can think of.

1310
01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:49.840
But that whole thing, yeah, I would probably just just

1311
01:12:49.920 --> 01:12:50.640
dispose of it.

1312
01:12:50.680 --> 01:12:53.439
But yeah, it's very very baffling.

1313
01:12:54.399 --> 01:12:56.920
I don't really see a motive to kill Pam and

1314
01:12:57.039 --> 01:13:00.640
Kelvin though, especially Pam, Like why would he come back

1315
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:03.000
to kill Pam several hours later?

1316
01:13:03.239 --> 01:13:05.840
Yeah, that is also a very good question. Did the

1317
01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:09.279
person come back, whoever killed them, did they come back

1318
01:13:09.319 --> 01:13:11.520
to kill Pam or did they come back for another

1319
01:13:11.560 --> 01:13:14.439
reason and then Pam happened to come home and they

1320
01:13:14.520 --> 01:13:17.920
killed her because she walked in on them. The whole

1321
01:13:17.920 --> 01:13:20.880
thing is just baffling too. In one interview that I

1322
01:13:20.920 --> 01:13:25.079
saw with Kit. He sort of implied that Calvin was

1323
01:13:25.239 --> 01:13:28.000
involved in some shady stuff, and I didn't include any

1324
01:13:28.039 --> 01:13:29.960
of that in the story because there was no I

1325
01:13:30.000 --> 01:13:34.119
didn't find any you know, anything to basically, you know,

1326
01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:38.560
prove that statement. But there is a possibility that it

1327
01:13:38.600 --> 01:13:41.720
could have been a different person uninvolved with the whole

1328
01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:44.600
Kit Martin Joan Harmon thing. It could have been somebody

1329
01:13:44.640 --> 01:13:48.000
that had a beef with Calvin and killed them for

1330
01:13:48.039 --> 01:13:49.399
another reason. We just don't know.

1331
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:52.800
So Colin was supposed to testify in two weeks time, right,

1332
01:13:53.119 --> 01:13:56.199
and I don't know. I just I just don't think

1333
01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:59.199
that it doesn't seem like a motive.

1334
01:13:59.359 --> 01:14:02.520
It doesn't his testimony, even if he was going to

1335
01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:05.439
it just didn't seem like his testimony was that damning.

1336
01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:10.479
We knew that Kit had that wherever this classified information

1337
01:14:10.560 --> 01:14:13.039
came from, Kit was probably going to get in trouble

1338
01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:16.239
for it, because even if it was just accidentally taken home,

1339
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:19.079
you can't do that if you're in the military. So

1340
01:14:19.319 --> 01:14:21.920
I don't know. I just don't know that Calvin's testimony

1341
01:14:21.960 --> 01:14:23.960
would have made much of a difference one way or another.

1342
01:14:24.079 --> 01:14:26.119
Yeah, unless there was some other beef there that we

1343
01:14:26.159 --> 01:14:26.920
don't know about.

1344
01:14:27.079 --> 01:14:31.079
Yeah, this case is definitely one of the most baffling

1345
01:14:31.159 --> 01:14:35.000
cases I've researched. I do firmly believe that he should

1346
01:14:35.039 --> 01:14:37.680
not have been convicted one way or another. I just

1347
01:14:37.760 --> 01:14:40.199
don't believe that the evidence was there to convict him

1348
01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:43.760
beyond a reasonable doubt. Thanks once again to Julie for

1349
01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:46.920
recommending this case. I really appreciate it because I really

1350
01:14:46.960 --> 01:14:48.319
loved researching this case.

1351
01:14:55.119 --> 01:14:58.479
The other day, one of our wonderful listeners sent something

1352
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:00.800
to me that was kind of funny. It was you

1353
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:03.199
probably saw it. I posted it on Instagram. It was

1354
01:15:03.279 --> 01:15:07.000
like a new meme, like my emergency contact and it

1355
01:15:07.039 --> 01:15:11.000
shows your emergency contact doing something you know, silly or

1356
01:15:11.239 --> 01:15:13.880
you know, not very serious. And in this case, it

1357
01:15:14.000 --> 01:15:16.680
was like the husband was looking in the refrigerator for

1358
01:15:16.920 --> 01:15:20.359
a jar of I think it was ketch up. Yeah,

1359
01:15:20.520 --> 01:15:21.960
First of all, how do you spell ketch up?

1360
01:15:22.399 --> 01:15:25.600
I spell it c A T s up?

1361
01:15:26.359 --> 01:15:26.640
Do you?

1362
01:15:27.199 --> 01:15:27.680
I don't know.

1363
01:15:27.800 --> 01:15:29.239
It does go back and forth.

1364
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:30.119
It's the weirdest thing.

1365
01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:32.479
It is so weird that there's two ways to spell ketch.

1366
01:15:32.359 --> 01:15:34.239
Up I know and c AT s up. How is

1367
01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:36.840
that pronounced ketch up? That doesn't doesn't make any sense.

1368
01:15:37.079 --> 01:15:38.359
But any way, we digress.

1369
01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:41.560
But it just maybe me left because this does happen

1370
01:15:41.600 --> 01:15:45.680
in our house all the time. What is it with men?

1371
01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:49.319
And why can't you find things? Because you, like, you're

1372
01:15:49.359 --> 01:15:53.279
supposed to be the hunters and gatherers in our society.

1373
01:15:53.319 --> 01:15:54.680
Do you know why that is? I'll tell you why

1374
01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:57.279
it is. Okay, it's because you put the things away,

1375
01:15:57.800 --> 01:15:59.680
so you know where the things are because you put

1376
01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:00.239
them away.

1377
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:02.279
But you live in this house and it's not like

1378
01:16:02.359 --> 01:16:05.720
I'm like, hm, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna trick

1379
01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:08.680
him and put things because this literally happened the other day, right,

1380
01:16:09.000 --> 01:16:11.600
and you were It's so funny because you always come

1381
01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:15.239
to like you're absolutely positive it's not there. Item, it's

1382
01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:19.079
not there. You always could be like this this look

1383
01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:21.479
of like I got her, this time I got her.

1384
01:16:21.479 --> 01:16:24.199
And it was you were looking for antistamyia. Yes, and

1385
01:16:24.239 --> 01:16:28.520
you're like me, you said you bought and I was like, okay,

1386
01:16:28.720 --> 01:16:31.000
I can tell you where it is or I will

1387
01:16:31.000 --> 01:16:33.920
go and show you. And and it was there, wasn't it?

1388
01:16:34.159 --> 01:16:34.960
Yes, it was there.

1389
01:16:35.199 --> 01:16:38.119
But while I'm roasting oak ahead is because.

1390
01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:40.840
So you you were aware of the antiistamine and the

1391
01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:43.560
fact that it was in a box right, right, I

1392
01:16:43.720 --> 01:16:47.000
was looking for something that was in a little tube

1393
01:16:47.159 --> 01:16:50.319
or a little like liquidy type form, So I was

1394
01:16:50.359 --> 01:16:54.039
looking for something completely different than the box that it

1395
01:16:54.079 --> 01:16:57.560
actually was intch That's fine, makes.

1396
01:16:57.720 --> 01:17:03.319
Sense, yes, But I also want to say that I

1397
01:17:03.399 --> 01:17:05.800
lose things, Like I was laughing on myself last night

1398
01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:08.640
because I spent thirty percent of my day looking for

1399
01:17:08.680 --> 01:17:10.760
things that I personally have misplaced.

1400
01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:11.359
That's true.

1401
01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:15.079
So you never lose like an air pod, right, my phone?

1402
01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:20.439
You never lose your phone, And I am constantly losing

1403
01:17:20.479 --> 01:17:22.439
the things that I myself misplaced.

1404
01:17:22.520 --> 01:17:24.039
That is true. Why do you think that is?

1405
01:17:24.239 --> 01:17:27.760
I don't know it really it annoys the heck on.

1406
01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:31.159
Me because you're searching for your AirPods for months before

1407
01:17:31.199 --> 01:17:32.359
you finally gave up.

1408
01:17:32.560 --> 01:17:34.600
Right because I think I left them in a hotel

1409
01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:36.479
that we stayed at. That's the only thing that makes

1410
01:17:36.520 --> 01:17:38.880
sense because when I do, and it was driving me

1411
01:17:39.119 --> 01:17:42.680
banianas because I mean, I really loved my AirPod press

1412
01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:45.520
and actually you were kind enough the other day and

1413
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:48.439
you're like, just buy a new pair, right, So that

1414
01:17:48.600 --> 01:17:51.239
was that. I really am so grateful that I have

1415
01:17:51.359 --> 01:17:54.520
them back. Yeah, and there's a feature now like that

1416
01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:56.800
I haven't turned it on. I shouldn't even tell you

1417
01:17:56.840 --> 01:17:58.800
that this exists because you always come up to me

1418
01:17:58.840 --> 01:18:01.000
when I have them on always, like you know, sim

1419
01:18:01.000 --> 01:18:03.960
listening to a podcast or whatever, and you know I

1420
01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:05.960
always get a little annoyed. But there's a new feature

1421
01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:09.960
where if you approach me, like my EarPods are supposed

1422
01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:12.239
to know turn off, but I haven't turned that.

1423
01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:14.920
Interesting. I thought you were gonna say the feature was

1424
01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:17.840
like if the AirPods detect the voice of a really

1425
01:18:17.840 --> 01:18:20.560
important person like your husband, that they would just automatically

1426
01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:24.359
let that voice through and shut down. That would be cool.

1427
01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:29.760
Sure, sure, that would be great. I also think it's funny,

1428
01:18:29.760 --> 01:18:33.039
like whenever someone else empties the dishwasher, like no one

1429
01:18:33.039 --> 01:18:35.119
ever wants to empty the dishwasher. I don't know why

1430
01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:39.359
that's everyone's least favorite word. It is. People always put

1431
01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:43.039
things back in the wrong spot, and you know, yeah,

1432
01:18:43.079 --> 01:18:44.760
and then I have to go hunting, So I know

1433
01:18:44.840 --> 01:18:46.479
that's kind of payback, right.

1434
01:18:46.600 --> 01:18:48.479
See that goes to what you said earlier, though you

1435
01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:50.800
are you are the one who knows where everything goes.

1436
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:53.439
That's why you know where to find things, and none

1437
01:18:53.479 --> 01:18:55.439
of the rest of us too. So you're very particular

1438
01:18:55.479 --> 01:18:57.479
about things being in the right place.

1439
01:18:57.560 --> 01:19:01.239
Not even that particular, but it's like, I don't.

1440
01:19:01.039 --> 01:19:04.039
Think you're pretty particular. Before we go, I have to

1441
01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:06.520
give a shout out to a listener. Her name is

1442
01:19:06.560 --> 01:19:09.560
Olivia Rodrigo. I don't know for sure that she is

1443
01:19:09.600 --> 01:19:11.359
a listener, but I was talking to my friend Dave

1444
01:19:11.399 --> 01:19:13.640
the other day and he said that he heard that

1445
01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:17.239
Olivia Rodrigo listens to true crime podcasts to relax, so

1446
01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:19.319
I can only assume she listens to us.

1447
01:19:19.359 --> 01:19:20.880
So well, then I need to give a shout out

1448
01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:23.560
to my best friend, Jennifer Garner. Thanks for listening, Jen,

1449
01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:24.680
We love you well.

1450
01:19:24.680 --> 01:19:27.600
I wanted to tell Olivia, if you are listening, just

1451
01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:29.760
if you could give us a shout out on your

1452
01:19:29.760 --> 01:19:31.960
social media or something that would help us out a lot,

1453
01:19:32.079 --> 01:19:34.279
so that would be that would be cool.

1454
01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:38.319
You are so strategic, you are a marketing genius, sir.

1455
01:19:38.520 --> 01:19:40.680
I hear that she has a lot of follows.

1456
01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:41.960
Catch us like wildfire.

1457
01:19:42.079 --> 01:19:44.000
Now we have a lot of followers. She does too,

1458
01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:46.039
so it's a good exchange of shout outs.

1459
01:19:46.720 --> 01:19:49.079
I'm sure it's very similar. I'm sure we're really going

1460
01:19:49.159 --> 01:19:53.000
to boost her career. Yeah, yeah, I know she needs

1461
01:19:53.000 --> 01:19:53.560
some help there.

1462
01:19:53.920 --> 01:19:56.920
Yes, well, thank you all so much for listening.

1463
01:19:57.000 --> 01:19:59.960
We really appreciate, appreciate all of you, not just celebrity

1464
01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:03.760
so you're all celebrities to us, Yes you are. We

1465
01:20:03.840 --> 01:20:06.960
really do love hearing from you guys on especially like

1466
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:09.520
if you're listening on Spotify. I love that new comment section,

1467
01:20:10.039 --> 01:20:13.760
so leave us a comment, Please follow, subscribe, like, or

1468
01:20:13.840 --> 01:20:16.560
find us on social media. Send us an email at

1469
01:20:16.600 --> 01:20:21.159
lovemarykilat gmail dot com. Until next time, don't kill your

1470
01:20:21.159 --> 01:21:10.800
wife and don't kill your husband,