Joan Robinson Hill and Dr. John Hill - Part 2 of 3

0:00 Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years. Of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband. And some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to love, Mary Kill. How do you Tina? Hey? Rich? How are you today? Great? How are you? I'm okay. I'm a little bit sad. At the end of part one of this episode, we talked about the Lions, and I was really excited about the Lions game, which was last night. Yeah, and they lost.

0:41 It was a big disappointment. It was kind of a huge surprise. It was I mean, you know, last year the Lions exceeded expectations. They went much farther than anyone thought. But this year everyone thought they were going to go all the way and not everyone everyone ever, So for them to lose in their first playoff game was a big disappointment. But that's okay. I'm gonna move on and I'll be okay. Who's the Lion's quarterback Jared Goss? Maybe he should try to steal Taylor Swift from Travis Kelsey because I think she's like a good luck charge. She seems to be right, so I should you know. Yeah, it's a great idea. Work on that, all right. I think he has a. Sense some shirtless pics of Jared got to Taylor's.

1:22 Is not sure how Jared Goff's current girlfriend or maybe wife would feel about that, but yeah. You don't know Jared Goss's marital it's a shocked I. Know that is shocking. The other thing is, as you know, I'm flying to Paris tonight, and you know how I get on days that i'm having before I have a big flight, especially like to Europe or something like that, I just get antsy. I can't sit still, I can't concentrate on it. And you like to leave for the airport at least six hours early. Kind of why I leave earlier is because I just am antsy and I just want. To get on with it. I understand. Other than that, I'm doing great. Well on your trip to Paris is kind of it's kind of a quick trip. Really, yeah, I'm only going to be I really do feel empathy for you because you get there and you're going to be exhausted because you don't sleep on planes, and then you're expected to perform and yeah, you only have a couple of well you have more than a couple of days. But yeah, by the time you are acclimated, you're going to have to come home.

2:14 Yeah, I really have two days in the office and that's it. So it's yeah, it's a little stressful, but I'll get through it. Oh, you'll make the most of it, and hopefully you'll bring home some yummy Parisian. I don't know if I will this time. I'm not gonna have much time, So just prepare yourself. All right, I'll prepare myself. I'll just go get some Costco with songs. There you go. I did make you a yummy treat today, though, yummy another judge of that. Have you ever heard of coolachism? Yes, yes I have. Well, I made colachis for you. Wow, you're such a star, you know. I'd like to. I like to do it up if I can. Then I had a little time, so I did. But if you're not familiar with Colachi's, they are a beloved breakfast staple in Texas. They're kind of like a pastry. You can actually fill it with fruit or sausage or cheese.

3:03 I did fruit. I've got a blueberry kolachi and raspberry kolachi. So yeah, they're originally. From Nancy sirch. Czecho, Slovakia or check the Czech Republic, I guess. But anyway, here's your here's your COLACHIESE. Wow, enjoy them? It was like amazing. Did you enjoy your kolachi? I truly did. That was really delicious. I thought they were cookies when you said colachia, I thought that was like your little jam filled cookie. But this is like the size of like a bagel, so it's quite an undertaking you. I feel like they might be bigger than they're supposed to be, like wider maybe the pictures I saw. I've never seen one in real life, but the pictures I saw they look a little more compact. And I think the fruit to bread ratio is a little bit low.

3:57 I think it could. It took me a while to get to the jam. Yeah yeah. But other than that, I think they are really good. Yeah. I hadn't eaten yet today, and that's good because it was. I mean, yeah, it's pretty. It's a filling snap. Thank you very much. I would give it a nine out of ten. Nine. If you would have used the cream cheese, it probably would have been a ten out of ten. Yeah, I would give it a nine out of ten. Good for you. I mean, that's that's a big undertaking. That's like dough. And I made the dough last night and it's kind of just like bread dough. And it wasn't that hard. It was a little bit involved kind of assembling. The whole thing. But thank you, delicious, You're welcome. Well, should we continue on with the story of Joan Robinson Hill and John Hill. Absolutely, But before we start, let me just mention that I looked up the house on Zillow last night and the houses for your sale, which is kind of wild.

4:43 So we're going to buy it and then we're gonna air five million. Oh so perfect. It's a little outside of our budget, but we can airbnb it. I love Mary Kill. Oh my god, that's a great idea. Yeah, I have a great idea. Sure we would earn our money back. Yeah, just a couple of months. Have a Murder Mystery theme party in the music room. Yeah. But I hope you put the link to the house on the show notes so everyone can see it, because it's it's a very interesting property. A house is it's beautiful, but it also has you know, like the checkerboard tile.

5:24 It's a little dated our style exactly, well. Right, I mean our start was like like pottery barn and this is more like, Yeah, it's very cool. Definitely you should go look at that. And I also just googled a picture of Joan and John, and I mean they are a beautiful couple. Beautiful couple. Would you like to give us a recap of part one? Absolutely? Joan Robinson was the daughter of a wealthy Texas oil man, Ash Robinson. Ash was very involved in his daughter's life, even moving to be close to her while she was in college and when she got married. Right Joan met and married John Hill, who was studying to be a plastic surgeon. They were a beautiful couple and darlings of Houston's high society, but they were also opposites.

6:09 Joan loved her horses, she liked to swear, and she enjoyed going to parties. John was religious, who loved his mother and loved to play and listened to music obsessively. John had an affair with a woman named Anne Kirth, but was coerced to return to his marriage by Joan's dad, but he continued the affair. In March nineteen sixty nine, Joan suddenly got very ill. When we left off at the end of part one, John had finally decided to take Joan to the hospital, although she should have gone to the hospital much much sooner. For sure. John said that he had arranged for Joan to be treated at Sharpstown Hospital, claiming that she would be treated like a queen there. He decided to drive Joan himself rather than calling an ambulance. The decision to take her to Sharpstown was puzzling. It was a small suburban hospital without an emergency room or an intensive care unit, a far cross from the world class facilities available at the Texas Medical Center, which was actually closer to the Hill Mansion.

7:06 But John insisted that Joan would receive special care at Sharpstown, and he was a doctor, right, He knew doctors all over the place, so everyone just trusted him. I don't know, No, I don't either. The drive there was agonizingly slow. Joan lay in the back seat, weak and barely conscious, while her mom, Rhea, sat in the front growing increasingly anxious. Quote he drove like a snail. Rhea later recalled, I felt like we were never going to get there. It was almost as if he didn't want us to. At one point, Joan's voice broke through the tense silence. Mother, I'm blind, I can't see you, she said. Rhea turned to her daughter in alarm, but John dismissed the comment as a blackout, showing little concern. When they finally arrived at Sharpstown Hospital, it became evident that John's so called arrangements were dubious at best. No one seemed to know that Joan was coming. A nurse eventually assisted Joan into a wheelchair and took her to a private room. John had contacted doctor Walter Burtonoe, an internal medicine specialist who practiced at Sharpstown. Doctor Burtonou was surprised by the call.

8:09 He had never treated Joan before and had only met her briefly at social events. When Burtno asked him why, John explained that Joan disliked doctors, but had expressed favorable opinions about Burtono in the past. Again, Burtonou was a little confused since he really hadn't spent much time with Joan. John described Joan's symptoms diarrhea, vomiting, and nausea, making the situation sound routine. As a result, Doctor Burtonoe didn't initially sense the urgency. However, when a nurse checked Joan's blood pressure and found it dangerously low at sixty over forty, she immediately called doctor Burtnoe, who was just a block away. He rushed over to the hospital. Doctor Burtonou ordered IV fluids to stabilize Joan's blood pressure, initially suspecting food poisoning as a possible cause. He also requested ur analysis and stool cultures. But to say, despite the ivy fluids, Joane's blood pressure remained perilously low, prompting doctor Burtneau to wonder if Joan was suffering from septic shock due to a massive bacterial infection. By late afternoon, a nurse noted that Joan wasn't producing any urine, an alarming sign of potential kidney failure. That evening, Ash arrived to see his daughter.

9:20 Despite her weakened state, Joan was lucid and managed a faint smile as ashe promised to fill her hospital room with yellow roses the next day to cheer her up. That would be nice, she whispered. Ash kissed Joan good night, not knowing that it would be the last time he would ever see her. By eight PM, Joan's condition had taken a dire turn. A renal specialist was called in and quickly confirmed severe kidney failure. The medical team debated transferring her to a hospital across town that had a dialysis machine, but Joan was deemed too critically ill to survive the journey. Instead, they opted for peritoneal dialysis, a procedure less invasive than hemodialysis but still a risk each other choice given her fragile state.

10:02 So John knew this smaller hospital didn't have the appropriate facilities to really take care of her. I'm sure he must have. I mean, if you're a doctor, you make your rounds in multiple hospitals. I'm sure he was familiar with all the hospitals in the area. The doctors needed John's consent to proceed with the peritoneal dialysis, but he was nowhere to be found. Although he had visited Joan a few times earlier in the day, by this point he had returned home. The hospital called him at nine to fifteen PM, secured his verbal approval for the procedure, and informed him of the urgency. Despite this, John didn't arrive at the hospital until nearly eleven pm. What a guy. Huh, that's horrible. Why would he even leave her?

10:44 I know exactly. When he finally walked into Joan's room, she was lucid but terrified. Please John, don't leave me, she begged. He pulled a chair to her bedside and promised to stay. By twelve thirty am, there was a glimmer of hope. Joan's condition appeared to stabilize slightly. John decided to step out and rest on a couch in the patient records room down the hall. At two thirty am, everything unraveled. Joanes's vital signs plummeted, signaling sudden heart failure. A nurse rushed to her side just as Joan suddenly raised her head and gasped. John, the on call resident, was summoned immediately In a last ditch effort to save her. He administered a shot of adrenaline directly to her heart, but it was too late. Joan Robinson Hill was pronounced dead at thirty eight years old. When a nurse woke John to deliver the news, he screamed no, repeatedly, rocking back and forth in anguish. Suddenly, he said, I need to call my mother. The statement struck her as odd. Shouldn't his first call have been to Jones's parents.

11:42 Under Texas law, an autopsy must be conducted by the county coroner on any individual who dies within twenty four hours of being admitted to a hospital. The coroner is required to determine the cause of death before the body can be released for embalming or cremation. In Jones's case, this critical procedure was bypassed. After Joan was pronounced dead. Doctor Burton no informed John that an autopsy was mandatory. John nodded, saying well, yes, of course. However, while doctor Burton now began contacting the hospital pathologists to initiate the process, John made a call of his own to his friend, doctor Jim Oates. He asked Oates to arrange for the funeral home to claim Joan's body and began preparing it for burial. So he knew exactly what he was doing there.

12:29 I mean, I wouldn't say one hundred percent. It could be just, you know, in the moment he started kind of making arrangements. But I don't know. I don't know for sure if he knew what he. Was doing or not. By six am, a hearse arrived at the hospital's rear entrance. Two attendants loaded Jones's body and transported it to the funeral home. By six forty am, the embalming process was already underway. Meanwhile, doctor Burton no managed to reach the hospital pathologist at home between four and six am, informing him of Jones's unexplained death and that her body had been sent to the funeral home. The pathologist, assuming that proper protocols were in place and that the funeral home would hold off on embalming, did not rush. He eventually arrived at the funeral home around ten am. To his shock, the embalming process was already in progress. By this point, all of Jones's blood and vital fluids, the most critical components for toxicological testing, had been drained and were irretrievably lost.

13:29 Despite the setback, the pathologists conducted the autopsy as best he could. He examined Joanes's body, collected tissue samples, and inspected her internal organs. Most appeared normal, but he noted that her pancreas was unusually soft and inflamed, a sign consistent with acute pancreatitis. Based on this observation, he tentatively concluded that pancreatitis was the likely cause of death. The autopsy concluded by eleven thirty am, and Jones's body was returned to the undertaker to complete the embalming process. The possibility of uncovering any toxicological evidence was gone forever. In the early hours of Wednesday morning after Joan's death, John hesitated to deliver the devastating news to ashen Rhea. His friend, doctor Oates, finally urged him, John, it's your duty. You need to tell them. Together, they drove to Jones's parents' home, where John broke the news. The Robinsons were paralyzed by grief, ash and Ria Satin's stunned silence, unable to speak, staring blankly ahead as the weight of the law sank in.

14:34 By sundown, more than one hundred of Jones's friends and neighbors had gathered at the Robinson's home to offer their condolences. On Thursday, Diane and Eunice made the drive back from Dallas to Houston, still in disbelief that their vibrant friend, whom they had just seen days earlier, was gone. Diana and Unis were staying with John and Joan the week before, and they were there when she started to get sick. That's right. Diane was livid and sought out John for anne answers. Why did Joan die, John, she demanded. He replied, she died of pancreatitis. I just didn't recognize the symptoms. I wasn't treating her for that. Diane's anger flared, Why the hell not? You've been through every goddamn specialty there is.

15:16 Ash paid for it. John, on the defensive, claimed that Joan had refused to go to the hospital, insisting she hated them. Diane wasn't convinced. Then, answer me this, She said. If Joan was so sick that she died just hours after getting to the hospital, why did it take you so long to get her there? It doesn't add up, John, None of it does. Later that evening, Diane was seen in an intense conversation with Ash. As the discussion wore on, Ash became visibly agitated, his face flushing with barely contained anger. Finally, he stood abruptly, slammed his stetson onto his head, and stormed out into the night, leaving a tense silence in his wake. So Ash was a true Texan and couldn't go anywhere without his Stepta on his head.

16:00 I think Ash was about as Texan as a Texan Kim. Be well poor, Yeah, I mean he just must have been breathed, yes, but both he and Ria must have just been so upset. The next day was Jones's funeral. At nine am, Ash Robinson arrived at the Assistant District Attorney's office accompanied by his lawyer. Addressing Assistant Daid McMaster with urgency, Ash declared, I have reason to believe my son in law murdered my only child. This is going to sound unbelievable, but it's the truth. Ash laid out all the troubling facts he had gathered. Joan had been in perfect health, vibrant and active, before suddenly falling ill. Her decline began after eating French pastries that John brought home one evening. John had been laid that night and presented the pastries as a peace offering. Diane had found it peculiar that John insisted on deciding who wait which pastry.

16:53 For the record, they were not Colachi's that he brought. Yeah, I just started a sweat. I'm like, wait a minute, but I know you wouldn't do that. Ash continued, describing John's behavior during Joan's illness. Despite her severe condition, John delayed calling another doctor and only took her to the hospital when she was on the brink of death. Worse, the hospital he chose was ill equipped to handle her case. To top it off, her body was embalmed before a proper autopsy could be conducted, a move that, ashe believed, was intentional. Ash dismissed the pancreatitis explanation as implausible. At first, McMaster suspected Ash was merely a grieving father looking for answers in his sorrow, but as ashe spoke, his allegations piqued McMaster's curiosity. By the end of the conversation, the assistant DA promised to follow up within the next week. Ash, a man accustomed to getting his own way, boiled over. No, that'll be too late. I want you to get the coroner out here before they close the coffin. Don't you understand John Hill wants her buried as fast as possible.

17:56 McMaster contacted the Harris County Coroner, Josi chickim Min's helped me out. I don't know, I would say just shimsick. Okay, we'll go with that. He instructed Jeshiviks to visit the funeral home and inspect Jones's body if necessary, He was to halt the funeral. How many times are you going to make me say this name? You could just call him doctor J. That's what That's what I started writing. In my notes. Doctor J quickly gathered some background information. He contacted Sharpstown Hospital to obtain joones medical records and spoke with a hospital pathologist who had conducted the autopsy. The pathologist said his initial conclusion was pancreatitis, but confessed he wasn't certain. At doctor J's insistence, he agreed to turn over the remaining tissue samples for further examination. Before ending the call, Doctor J pressed the pathologist about why Jones' body had been embalmed before the legally required autopsy.

18:53 The pathologists had no explanation. I don't know, he said, it was just a screw up all around. Later, doctor J awry at the funeral home, blending in with the mourners to avoid drawing attention. After discreetly examining Joan's body, he concluded that the tissue samples would suffice for further analysis and chose not to delay the funeral. The service was a massive event. The chapel overflowed with people, with many standing outside in the driveway. Speakers broadcast the ceremony to the crowd, while two TV stations and several newspaper and radio reporters documented the occasion. As the service ended, Ash and Rhea entered the lead Cadillac limousine to head to the cemetery. When Ash spotted John approaching, he quickly told the driver, I don't want him in this car.

19:38 Lock the s doors, but John was faster, slipping into the vehicle before the doors could be secured. At the graveside ceremony, Ash's grief morphed into rage. As he turned to walk away, he made a chilling proclamation, loud enough for others to hear. If the law doesn't get that son of a bitch, I will. Not content to wait for the Assistant DA to do his job. Ashe launched his own investigation, he hired Clyde Wilson, the same private investigator who had accompanied John to retrieve his belongings from Anne's house. Wilson took statements from Diane in Eunice, documenting their observations from the weekend when Joan fell ill. Diane had already shared her poison a Claire theory with others. That was what the pastry was. It was in a Claire, and the rumor mill was quickly churning in the town. Ash also spoke with Fie and Archie, the Hill family's household staff. Their statements saying they believed that Joan was murdered were written by Ash himself and left unsigned, raising doubts about their authenticity. The couple had continued working for John after Joan's death. Ash's dining room became a chaotic command center for his investigation. Piles of documents, medical charts, textbooks, and hastily scribbled notes from his discussions with doctors covered the table. Meanwhile, Assistant d. A. McMaster grew increasingly frustrated with Ash's constant interference. The old man called his office man multiple times a day, sharing new findings or theories. McMaster tried to brush him off, reminding him that no action could be taken until doctor j

21:08 finalized the autopsy report. When the report finally arrived at the end of March, it was a blow to Ash's hopes. The conclusion was that Joan had died from acute focal hepatitis, likely of viral origin. While doctor j conceded that it was possible Joan had been poisoned, perhaps through a pastry or her medicine, the report maintained that hepatitis was the cause of death. McMaster told Ash there was no way he could make a murder case, but ashe refused to give up, he hired his own team of medical experts who reviewed the autopsy results in Joan's medical records. They found some red flags. Joan's chart showed no signs of jaundice or elevated billy rubin, two key indicators of hepatitis, and even the most severe viral hepatitis rarely caused death.

21:53 So quickly, frustrated but determined, Ash sought out Frank Briscoe, the former Harris County DA who had recently transitioned into private practice. Brisco with his deep knowledge of the legal system and his connections with the Harris County Justice Department, seemed like Ash's best hope. John, aware of Ash's suspicions, knew that it was only a matter of time before the pressure would mount. One day, he brought Boot over to Ash and Rhea's house for a visit. When John extended his hand for a handshake, Ash coldly ignored it. John tried to make small talk, but Ash swiftly cut him off. I'm not satisfied with either autopsy, Ash declared, I want Jones' body exzoomed for a proper autopsy. John said he didn't want Jones's grave disturbed. Ash's reply was sharp, Then we have nothing to say to each other.

22:40 Oh wow, we should mention that Boot is the son of John and Joan. We talked about him last episode, and he's probably about. Eight or nine at this time. Yeah, his real name was Robert, but they called him Boot. Boot. Kind of surprised that Ash didn't try to get custody at Boot. Yeah, I'm sure he wanted to get custody, but he knew without John being convicted of murder, there was no way he was going to get custody from his dad. It took ten days after the funeral for John to finally reach out to Anne. She was livid that he had not contacted her since Joan's death. John apologized, explaining that things have been chaotic, but he was dropping off his son Robert, who we just talked about. The nickname Boot was actually dropped immediately after Joan passed away. He was dropping Robert off to see a movie and they would have a couple of hours to talk before long.

23:28 John and Anne's romance was rekindled. On May twenty sixth, nineteen sixty nine, just two and a half months after Joan's death, John and Anne went to pick up a marriage license. Y had two and a half months. That's disgusting. That's really quick. They secretly married and spent their honeymoon in a motel near six Flags of Texas while their children enjoyed the amusement part. Oh she had three sons. Yes. Yeah. Ash caught wind of John's quick remarriage from a gossip columnist who had been tipped off. He was enraged, but he was also excited. This was potentially explosive of new information that could damage John's reputation without wasting a moment, Ash contacted Frank Briscoe. Brisco Like assistant Da McMaster, was beginning to grow weary of Ash's relentless pursuit, but the news of John's rapid remarriage struck a nerve. It suggested a possible motive and gave Ash's suspicions more weight. Risco decided to reach out to McMaster, who had worked for him during his tenure as district attorney.

24:26 The two men. Discussed the case and agreed that the best course of action to appease Ash and the public would be to present the case to a grand jury, which was convened early in the summer of nineteen sixty nine. Meanwhile, John's plastic surgery practice began to suffer. The whispers around town grew louder, and the gossip about his hasty remarriage began to take a toll on his reputation. I was just going to ask about that, because you had said that John and Joan were sweethearts of the Houston High society. So they kind of turned their backs on him then after that quick marriage. Yes, very much so. John endured Ash's relentless accusations with restraint until he learned that Ash was now suggesting John's involvement in the tragic death of his own brother years earlier. That crossed the line for John. Furious, he contacted private investigator Clyde Wilson, who was no longer working for Ash. Wilson recommended that John volunteer for a lie detector test to clear his name and dispel the cloud of suspicion looming over him.

25:26 We talked about what was his brother's name, Julian, Julian, and Julian took his own life, allegedly over his frustration over his sexuality. I think you implied, yep. John mulled over the suggestion for several days before making his decision. He would take the test, but only under specific conditions. He refused to undergo a standard polygraph examination, claiming that he had no faith in its reliability. Instead, he would submit to a sodium pentathal injection, often referred to as truth serum. Oh that's really interesting. I know, I've never seen a case where truth series. You didn't really know if that was real. It was back in the day, so it's not admissible in court, but sodium pentathal had been used in some law enforcement circles in the nineteen sixties, despite growing skepticism about its accuracy in detecting lies. John also stipulated that the test must take place at a hospital, not the police station, and that the entire procedure would be recorded. Lastly, He demanded that both parties swear to keep the details of the test confidential from the media.

26:30 The proposal was. Sent to Assistant DA McMaster, who accepted the conditions. In early June nineteen sixty nine, John underwent the test at Sharpstown Hospital. The anesthesiologist who administered the procedure was a familiar face, having worked on ten to fifteen of John's surgeries over the years, though none in the past two years. After making some inquiries, McMaster was satisfied that the doctor was ethical and unbiased. Do you think the sodium pentathal makes you like kind of drunk and loose life a little bit? Maybe? I think it's basically it's an anesthesia, And basically the idea behind using it as a truth serum is that you give just enough of it through an IV that the patient is not completely under but they're just scroggy, yeah, and so they're more likely to tell the truth, I guess.

27:18 But again, I think it was I think it's been largely disproven that it's accurate under the influence of sodium pentathal. John answered all the questions posed to him. Nickmaster noted that John appeared almost unnervingly composed his responses came off as rehearsed, too precise for someone undergoing a supposedly spontaneous examination. When asked if he had caused Joan to ingest anything, or had injected anything that could have contributed to her or worsened her illness, John responded with a firm, unwavering no, sir, I did not. The interrogators pressed further, not in any way, shape or form, to which he replied again, without hesitation, no, sir.

27:59 We'll be back after a break. The grand jury that had convened in early summer nineteen sixty nine ended without bringing any indictment in the death of Joan. There was simply no hard evidence. The foreman of the grand jury later said to a reporter that, certainly there was evidence that John Hill wasn't a very good husband, but they couldn't indict someone for adultery. But you can indict a ham sandwich. Well, I I don't believe I know what you're talking about. You've never heard that saying before. I don't think so. Just one of those things that people say, like you can indict anything you want to.

28:40 Okay, interesting, I've learned something new today. That's funny because it's usually the other way around. You always see these things. They're like, I've never heard that before. Well that one. Ash was outraged, of course. Assistant Da McMaster was at the end of his rope with Ash. He said, show me some evidence and I'll get an indictment and that is prison. Decisely what ashe intended to do on the advice of his medical experts, ashe became convinced that the best chance to uncover hard evidence about Joan's death was to exhume her body and conduct another autopsy, this time with the top pathologists in the country, supported by a team of leading medical professionals. Normally, such a request would have to come from the next of kin John.

29:23 In this case, however, a grand jury could also request an exhumation, provided a judge approved it. Determined to pursue this path, Ashe urged his attorney, Frank Briscoe to push for the exhumation, assuring him that the money was no object. But Briscoe, worned down by Ash's relentless determination, made inquiries of his own and concluded that his second autopsy would likely yield little new evidence. He advised Ashe to let go of the idea and move on with his life. Ash, however, refused to back down, and frustration, he fired Briscoe, who later told a report Ash has had an absolute fixation on his daughter's death. I've never seen anything like it.

30:06 I kind of can't blame Ash. I mean, if you really know. Yeah, if you've got more money than you know what to do with, and you, you know, think that there's something suspicious about your daughter's death, why wouldn't you use every avenue you had to? Yeah, I think I get an Ash then turned to his close friend and fellow Houston businessman, Cecil Hayden for advice. Hayden suggested that Ash hire the city's most prestigious law firm, Vincent Elkins, Weem's, Searles and Connolly. Renowned for its influence and legal prowess. The firm boasted an army of talented attorneys. I'm surprised Ash didn't hire them. Off the bat. Ash retained a young, but highly regarded lawyer from the firm, Richard Keaton. Keaton approached the matter with discretion. He quietly inquired at the DA's office to gauge District Attorney Carol Vance's stance on the exhumation. Vance, like his assistant Daid McMaster, was weary of the Johan Robinson Hill case. However, with political ambitions of his own, Vance understood the value of cooperating with a law firm as powerful as Vinson and Elkins.

31:12 Buoyed by Keaton's encouragement, Ash launched a strategic campaign to build support for the exhumation. He persuaded several prominent Houston physicians to write letters to da Vance urging further investigation into Jones' death through another autopsy. Ash also wrote directly to Vance, offering to cover all expenses, including the cost of securing the best pathologist in the country. Facing mounting pressure, Vance decided to present the matter to a new grand jury. After reviewing the evidence, including a heartfelt plea from Ash, the grand jury voted in favor of proceeding with the exhumation. Ash hired doctor Milton Helpern, the renowned chief medical examiner of New York City, often described as Sherlock Holmes, with a microscope. Widely considered the nation's top coroner. Helpern's expertise came with a hefty price tech for Ash, rumored to be in this sixth figure range, though the exact amount was undisclosed until now. John had not retained an attorney, but news of the exhumation prompted him to act. He hired Richard Racehorse Haynes, a legendary trial lawyer whose nickname stemmed from his high school football days. Racehorse advised John to assemble a team of medical professionals to observe the autopsy and safeguard his interests. You can bet your last dollar ashe will have his own team there, he warned.

32:35 On August sixteenth, nineteen sixty nine, jones grave was dog up in our casket transported to ben Top Hospital for another autopsy. Doctor Helpern led the procedure, while Ash and John both had their respective medical teams present. Ash's side included several prominent physicians, while John's team consisted of three pathologists and two additional doctors. The moment the casket was opened, something unexpected was to severed. Dried mud inside. The mud was old, predating that day's excuamation. This raised an immediate question had Jones's casket been disturbed before? Shock and confusion swept through the room as the revelations sunk in. Investigations quickly uncovered that just three days after Joan's burial, John had obtained a permit from the health department to have her grave opened. Yes, oh my gosh. John explained that he had been searching for a valuable ring he believed Joan had been buried with. According to cemetery staff, John personally inspected Joan's body but didn't find the ring. This process was brief, and Joan's grave was resealed. Wow.

33:42 I know, that's quite a revelation, isn't it. I mean, I just can only imagine how shocked the doctors were when they figured that out. I just can't imagine. Whoever makes that decision was like, oh yeah, well, because that's not an easy thing to get right, passed right. Yeah. To Ash's team of doctors, this incident appeared deeply suspicious. They speculated that John might have been searching for evidence of incriminating needle marks rather than a lost ring. Months later, a college friend of Jones, who had selected her burial dress, recalled a conversation with John when she asked if Joan should be buried with any jewelry. John had insisted no, absolutely not. As the autopsy proceeded, Hulpert identified needle marks on Joanes's arm, but determined they were consistent with the ivs she received in the hospital. No unexplained marks were found.

34:32 Then came a startling discovery. Jones's heart was missing. That's crazy. Doctor Morris, the hospital pathologist who had conducted the initial autopsy, explained that he had removed it for further study. He defended the decision, stating that proper analysis of the heart would have been unnecessary if Joan's blood had been available, but the embalming mishap had rendered that impossible. The shocks didn't end there. Her brain was also missing. When questioned, doctor Morris casually admitted, Oh, it's in the trunk of my car. I'll go get it. What the are you kidding, I'm kidding?

35:14 Oh my, oh my god. Disbelief rippled through the room, but Morris clarified during the original autopsy had preserved Joan's brain in formulin, a solution used to fix tissue for microscopic examination. This was common. He claimed it was in his car because he was in the process of transferring a number of specimens between labs. True to his word, Morris retrieved the brain, now sectioned and stored in a container. Oh gosh, that's crazy. The autopsy lasted seven hours. While no immediate breakthroughs occurred during this phase, Haulprin collected multiple tissue samples to analyze further in New York. He assured everyone that a detailed report would follow soon.

35:57 Holy cow, I know, it's just shocking. I remember this whole reading about this whole thing in the autopsy just blew my mind. Yeah. Well, thank goodness they exhumed her body, I guess to learn all these new things. Yeah. John's troubles didn't stop with the autopsy. His once busy plastic surgery practice was in freefall. He had gone from being one of the most sought after surgeons in town to someone no one wanted near their face, at least not if they valued their reputation. Sure, people still came in for consultations, but it didn't take long for John to realize that most of them were just there to gawk at the murder suspect doctor. And then there was Ash, who was running a full blown smear campaign against him.

36:39 Ash made sure everyone knew John was under suspicion. Robert's school was getting anonymous calls accusing John of being a murderer and warning that his influence wasn't good for the kids. John's home phone rang off the hook with middle of the night calls from people telling him to confess, even as church got dragged into the mess, with the minister receiving complaints, ended up standing before the congregation apologizing for the embarrassment he had brought on the church. You would think his new wife, Anne might have been a bright spot in all of this, but no. John told his lawyer, Racehorse Haines that marrying Anne was the biggest mistake of my life. He claimed she was abusive, verbally, emotional, even physically.

37:20 At one point, she allegedly punched him so hard she broke his nose. I'm not mad at that. Anne was consumed by jealousy of Joan, and she wasn't subtle about it. She tore up pictures, smashed Joan's trophies, scratched up her silver cups, and even threw some of her things into a bonfire. It was like she was trying to erase any trace of Joan. But Anne had her own reasons to be upset. After the wedding, she found out that John was in serious debt and his finances were only getting worse as his practice dried up. On top of that, John's mother, Myra, had moved in after Joan's death and didn't seem to have plans to leave anytime soon. By October nineteen sixty nine, John done.

38:01 He went to Racehorse and asked him to write up divorce papers. But Racehorse told him bad idea. If you divorce Anne now, she'll side with Ash and she could say a lot of things that might sink you. Plus, with Helpern's autopsy results still pending, it'll make you look even guiltier. So John stayed married for now. But make no mistake, it wasn't out of love. It was pure damage control. The marriage was a nightmare, but it was the lesser of two evils, at least for the moment. While everyone was anxiously awaiting for doctor Helpern's final autopsy report four months after the exhumation, mind you, other findings started trickling in. Doctor j who had initially ruled Joan's death as hepatitis, updated his opinion. Now he was saying that Joan died from a fulminating infectious process, which is a fancy way of saying some kind of severe fast moving infection, but what kind he didn't know. Meanwhile, John's team of doctors chimed in with their own conclusion, bacterial meningitis with septocemia. So now we had four different explanations for Jones' death, pancreatitis, hepatitis, meningitis, and a mysterious infection no one could pin down. None of it was helpful for Ash's cause. Ash kept calling doctor Helpern's office, hoping for answers more useful in his crusade against John, but all he got was delay after delay. He was used to pushing people until they gave him what he wanted, but this time it felt like he was hitting a brick wall. John had finally reached his breaking point. He

39:32 stormed into Racehorse Haines's office and told him, I can't live with Anne for another day. Racehorse, ever, the voice of reason, begged him to hold on just a little longer. He reminded John that as long as they were married, Anne couldn't testify against him. Let's at least wait for doctor Helpern's report, Racehorse said. But John wasn't having it. He was done, so reluctantly, Racehorse started drafting the paperwork for what he later called the War on Kirby Drive. And then he and unhatched what might be one of the worst plans in the history of bad plans. Oh wow, here was the idea. John would fake a romantic reconciliation with Anne. He would suggest a spontaneous road trip to Louisiana, turn on the charm and brace yourself, pull the car over somewhere along the way to make love to her. Then, in the afterglow of this manufactured passion, he would drop the bombshell they had to divorce. But don't worry, it wasn't about her.

40:27 It was all because Racehorse believed the divorce would make it easier to defend John. Meanwhile, back at the mansion, movers hired by John would be packing up all of Anne's belongings and shipping them back to her old house, which she hadn't sold yet. John even went so far as to break a window at Anne's house so that the movers could get in, and the plan actually worked, except that Anne was blindsided. Furious and humiliated, she stormed back to Houston and drove straight to Ash's house. By the end of that visit, she had become one of Ash's his most valuable allies in his crusade against John Oh. Wow. Looking back on it later, Racehorse admitted quote in retrospect, this was not one of our better ideas, but that was the only way we could get control of the castle, so to speak.

41:13 Do you know how long they were married for? It wasn't long. I think it was less than a year, maybe even six months. Wow. By February nineteen seventy, six months after the autopsy, Doctor Helpern's report was still nowhere to be found. But Da Carrol Vance, under constant pressure from Ash Robinson and his allies, had an idea. Why not assemble a third grand jury to take another swing at the case. After all, Helpern's report was supposedly coming any day. Now Here's where things get really strange. One of the jurors selected for this new grand jury was none other than Cecil Hayden. We mentioned him once before. Cecil was Ash Robinson's close friend and the guy who had originally suggested that Ash hire the powerful Vincent and Elkins law firm. So this is a real conflict of interest for reasons that still I don't understand. Nobody in Houston seemed to think that this was a problem, not the Houston Bar Association and not the media. It almost felt like the deck was just stacked against John Hill. John and Racehorse decided it was time to fight back. They filed a ten million dollar lawsuit against Ash Robinson. The claim was that ashe was conspiring to get John indicted for a crime he didn't commit, damaging his reputation and causing major financial harm. But the lawsuit wasn't just about money. The real goal was to give Racehorse subpoena power. Now he could call the same witnesses who were testifying before the grand jury and find out exactly what they were saying. Back in the grand jury room, it was clear who was really in charge. Officially,

42:47 they elected a foreman, but everybody knew Cecil Hayden was running the show and most of the jurors seemed more than happy to follow his lead. Then came another twist. On March twelfth, nineteen seventy, John and Anne's divorce was finalized. Less than twenty four hours later, Ann walked into the grand jury room ready to spill everything. Oh boy, and she told quite a story. She claimed that not only had John killed Joan, but he had also tried to kill her three times and she wasn't done. An said that John's sodium pentathal test was a total sham. She claimed that he had researched the drug, found an antidote, and injected himself with it the morning of the test.

43:27 She said she saw him giving himself a shot in the hip that morning. Oh my goodness. A sodium pentathal was already considered unreliable as a truth serum, but the idea of an antidote, there's no evidence that such a thing actually exists. So Anne's story was dramatic, but it wasn't exactly credible. Still, with Cecil Hayden's steering the grand jury and Ash Robinson's influence looming large, it was clear that this wasn't going to be an easy fight. For John Hill. So Cecil Hayden being on the grand jury? Was that not a coincidence? I mean someone paid off. They looked into it, and everyone involved swore that it was just it just happened that way. It wasn't anything suspicious, but yeah.

44:12 You have to wonder. Yeah. By April nineteen seventy, the clock was ticking. Da vance was growing more and more frustrated. It had been eight months since doctor Helpern performed his autopsy and still no final report. Meanwhile, the grand jury's time was running out. They were set to wrap up in a few weeks. If they didn't indict John Hill before then, the case might be dead. Vance decided to push things along. He had one of his assistants called doctor Helpern to check in. Halpern sounded embarrassed the report still wasn't done, so they floated an idea. Instead of finishing the report and sending it over, what if helper In just came to Houston and presented his findings directly to the grand jury. Helper And agreed on one condition, someone had to pay for his time, and of course Ash Robinson was more than happy to cut that check. Let's talk about Helpern's findings.

45:07 Scientifically speaking, there wasn't much in the report that hurt John Hill. There was no evidence that Jones's body had been tampered with during the first exhumation when John was looking for that missing ring, No suspicious injection marks were found, and toxicology didn't reveal anything criminal. But then Helpern's report took a strange turn, he started veering off into gossip. Basically, he brought up the infamous pastries, the Hill's crumbling marriage, John's affair with Anne, and Effie's claim that Joan had been left lying in a soiled bed. None of this was medical evidence. It was like Helpern was trying to appease Ash with drama and hearsay since he couldn't find anything solid to pin on John. Eventually, Helpern got around to his actual conclusion about Joan's cause of death. He dismissed the previous findings pancreatitis, hepatitis, acute meningitis is wrong.

46:02 So what did he think killed Joan? His answer, and acute inflammation of some sort, the origin of which I cannot determine, very definitive. He added that the likely portal of entry was through the elementary track, meaning it must have been something she ate or maybe not. Helper And threw in one last bombshell. He believed that the failure to provide medical attention at home and the resultant delay in hospitalization for a diagnosis and effective therapy aggravated a situation which proved fatal. In plain English, he was pointing the finger at John for negligence. The report was completely inconclusive.

46:45 Some people in the Houston medical community thought it was enough to suggest that John was at least guilty of neglect. Others blasted Helpern for relying on unverified stories from the Hills maid and house guests. So here we were eight months, multiple auto and still no definitive answers. But one thing was clear. The grand jury wasn't about to let John Hill off the hook just yet. Racehorse Haines was starting to sweat. Word had gotten back to him that someone from the DA's office, after hearing doctor Helpern's report, had made a cutting remark quote, I wouldn't let a dog die the way that doctor let his wife die. Not exactly the kind of sentiment you want floating around the grand jury room when your client's fate is on the line.

47:28 Racehorse knew that he had to do something bold, so he suggested that John Hill appear before the grand jury himself. This was risky, very risky, but the idea was to show that John had nothing to hide. If he came across as genuine and cooperative, maybe it would sway the jurors in his favor. Surprisingly, John agreed. John walked into that jury room and answered every question they threw at him. And here's the thing. His answers weren't incriminating. He didn't admit to anything that they could nail him on legally. But it wasn't what he said that left an impression. It was how he said it. John came across as cold, emotionless, like a robot. He spoke about Joan's death in such a detached, clinical way it was as if he were discussing the case of a random patient, not his wife.

48:16 At one point, when asked if he had any regrets about how he'd handle things, John said, well, of course, that's very difficult to say. Then he launched into a technical explanation that sounded more like a medical defense than a heartfelt reflection, and it got worse. John contradicted some key witness accounts. For example, he claimed he'd help Joan down the stairs when they were taking her to the hospital, but Archie, Effie, and Rhea, who were all there, had testified that John had ordered Joan to walk down herself. To put it bluntly, his attitude rubbed the jurors the wrong way. They were expecting remorse sorrow, anything to show he cared. Instead, they got icy detachment. And here's the kicker.

48:58 When John walked out of that room, he thought he nailed it. He genuinely believed he had convinced the grand jury to see things his way and that there wouldn't be an indictment. Spoiler alert, John's confidence might have just been a little misplaced. The day after John testified, the grand jury asked for a one month extension on their ninety day term. When a grand jury asks for more time, it's usually not because they need extra coffee breaks. Racehorse knew exactly what it meant, and indictment was almost certainly coming. So in a last ditch effort, Racehorse picked up the phone and called Assistant da Id McMaster. The message John was now willing to take a standard police administered polygraph test.

49:43 This was a huge gamble, but Racehorse was hoping it might change the tide. McMaster was open to the idea, but there was a catch. John would need to stay in jail for forty eight hours under constant observation. First, why well, if someone pops a handful of tranquilizers before a holygraph, it can completely skew the results. I didn't know that before, so now I'm going to keep that in mind if I ever have to take a Pollycraft. I don't think you're going to ever have to take a polygraph, though, although you always say you want to. McMaster wanted to make sure John wasn't gaming the system, but there was no way Resource could agree to that. Two days behind bars would be a pr disaster for John. Imagine the headlines. So that plan fizzled out as quickly as it started. Meanwhile, the DA's office was brainstorming their next move. McMaster and his colleague Ernie Ernst sat down with their boss, DA, Carrol Vance. The truth was they didn't have a slam dunk murder case against John Hill, but Ernst had a bold idea. He said, quote, look, we might not be able to prove that John did something that directly caused Joanes death, but what if we argue that he's guilty of murder biomission. This was a long shot. There were maybe twenty cases in US history where someone had been convicted of murder biomission. But the law is clear. If you owe a duty to someone, like say your wife, and you fail to act, and that failure leads to their death, you can be guilty of homicide. The argument went like this, John, as Joan's

51:13 husband and a doctor, had a duty to provide her with proper medical care. By withholding treatment and delaying her hospitalization, he was criminally negligent, and if they could prove that negligence caused Joan's death, they could charge him with first degree murder. Vance agreed it was worth a shot. They took the case back to the grand jury, and guess what. The grand jury voted to indict. John was rattled by the indictment, but racehorse wasn't. He was confident that they would win at trial, and despite everything, John had a reason to feel good. There was a new woman in his life, Connie Losby. Connie was nothing like Joan or Anne. She was graceful, refined.

51:57 How dare you? I felt a little bad writ that. But Joan wasn't graceful. She was like a you know, she was a horse scowl and she was a country yell. But the biggest thing with Connie and John was that Connie shared John's deep love for music. Connie had been immersed in it since she was seven, starting with piano lessons and later adding singing to her repertoire. At age twelve, she even earned a master's degree in music, flirted with the idea of an opera career, and eventually found her calling teaching music at a junior college near Houston. Oh my god, you're going to leave me for a woman like Connie who loves procyl haram aren't real. I don't think there are actually any women that loved prokel arams, so probably not. John and Connie met in December nineteen sixty nine after she performed in a musical playing harpsichord and singing. Connie was in a news junkie and had no idea who John Hill was. After the event, John invited her to his home for a private concert in his cherished music room. For months, she attended these musicals at the mansion, enjoying the music. One day, John called Connie out of the blue, saying he had a gift for her. She invited him over, and he showed up with a record by Elizabeth Schwarzkoff, a singer that they both admired. From that moment their romance began to blossom.

53:14 At first, John was cautious, he knew how it would look a new romance while his first wife's death was still under investigation and his second marriage in a shambles. To keep things under the radar, Connie would visit under the guise of giving music lessons to John's son Robert. After the lessons, she would stay for dinner, and their evenings often ended in the music room, sharing their mutual love for classical music. For a while, Connie didn't ask John about Joan's death, but after the indictment she gently broached the subject. John brushed it off, saying he had simply made a poor choice in in laws. He told Connie it had been a difficult time for him and asked. For her support. Without hesitation, Connie assured him that she would be behind him one hundred percent. She believed there was no way John could have been involved in something as awful as murder.

54:02 A few weeks later, John proposed Connie. Ever, the pragmatist said sure, how about tomorrow. Oh my gosh, John some prize. But John thought he had better run the idea by his lawyer first. Predictably, Racehorse hated it. He told John, you might as well drive straight to Huntsville and spend your wedding night there at least you'd be close to the state prison. I really like or Racehorst too, other than his who he's defending. The message was clear. Reluctantly, John agreed to hold off on the wedding for now. So they had only known each other for weeks. Yeah, I think they just knew, you know, they to be fair. John and Connie were. They were a lot alike, and they seemed like they were really perfect for each Well.

54:45 That goes back to our question from last time. You know, I think it's better not to be so alike. Could be, could be? In my opinion. As the trial loomed, Racehorse Haines felt confident to him the state of Texas didn't have a murder case. At best, they had a shaky malpractice claim, and even if John Hill were somehow convicted, Racehorse was sure he could get it overturned on appeal, especially since Ash Robinson's buddy, Cecil Hayden had served on the grand jury. Still, Racehorse made one last attempt to get the charges dropped. He pressed Assistant DA's McMaster and Ernst, but they weren't budging. They believed John was guilty. Plus McMaster had his own ambitions. He was gearing up to run for district judge and being tied to a high profile murder case wouldn't hurt his campaign. Jury selection began on February sixteenth, nineteen seventy one.

55:34 The prosecution's strategy leaned heavily on witness testimony, and they brought in several key players, including jones neighbor Van Maxwell, and the Hill family's housekeeper e Fie Green. But everyone was waiting for the star witness, Anne Kerth, John's ex wife. Racehorse knew that Anne's testimony could be explosive. He had a strategy ready. He planned to argue that her testimony wasn't admissible in Texas. Like most states, a spouse case can't testify about private conversations during a marriage, even after a divorce. Those are considered privileged. But the judge allowed Anne to testify with limits. She could only talk about events before their marriage or incidents involving alleged violence. That opened the door for Anne to tell the jury her shocking story, including claims that John had tried to kill her, and testified that a week before Jones's death, she and John were at their love nest when she spotted three Peatrie dishes near the sink. She said they contained something red with small dots in it. According to Anne, John told her he was conducting an experiment. Then she opened the fridge and saw a box of pastries. John warned her not to eat them.

56:43 I had microbiology back in the day. What did the dots mean? I wasn't sure he was harvesting. Probably some sort of harmful bacteria. Okay. Then came her most jaw dropping allegation and claimed that on the night of June twenty ninth, nineteen sixty nine, John admitted to murder Joan. She said that they were out for a late night drive after an argument, and John suddenly confessed that he had used cultures from the Petrie dishes grown from, as Anne put it, every kind of human excretion he could get his hands on, to poison Joan, and testified that John then drove toward a concrete bridge and deliberately rammed the car into the abutment on her side. She said she only survived because she wasn't wearing a seatbelt and managed to throw herself toward John just before the impact, but it didn't stop there.

57:32 Anne claimed that John pulled a syringe from his coat pocket and tried to inject her. She fought him off until headlights appeared a car pulling up behind them. It was a woman and her teenage son who. Offered to help. Police records confirmed the crash, but John had a different explanation. He told Racehorse that Anne had grabbed the wheel during an argument, causing the wreck, and when the police showed up, he said that he had fallen asleep at the wheel, which seemed like the simplest excuse at the time. Racehorse was relentless in his objections during Anne's testimony, arguing that her claims were prejudicial, inflammatory, and impossible to ignore, even if the judge instructed the jury to disregard certain parts.

58:14 At one point, Racehorse demanded a mistrial Judge Huey, of Judge Huey, it's a great name. He refused, but after lunch he called the attorneys to his chambers. He had reviewed Anne's testimony and agreed with Racehorse. The motion for a mistrial was granted. McMaster and Ernst were stunned. They pleaded with the judge to reconsider, but it was over. After ten days of testimony. The trial was scrapped. And a new one was scheduled. Racehorse celebrated, but John wasn't happy. His ordeal would drag on even longer now, and on his way out of the courtroom, two jurors had approached him, shook his hand and wished him luck. Later, it came out that the jury had taken an informal poll before being dismissed, and most of them were leaning toward acquittal.

59:00 Ash Robinson was furious. He confided in a friend that he had poured hundreds of thousands of dollars into seeking justice for Joan, only to have it all go up in smoke. His friend tried to reassure him, saying that there would be another trial. Ash's response, their damn well better be. With the first trial behind him and the second one months away. John approached Racehorse with a question, could he finally marry Connie? Racehors gave him the green light, this time telling him to go for it. In June nineteen seventy one, John and Connie tied the knot in her hometown near Seattle, but their new life together wasn't exactly off to a fairytale start. Financially, John was in ruins. The bank had called in the loans he had taken to keep himself afloat, and he didn't have the money to repay them. Their plans for a European honeymoon were scrapped.

59:49 Connie didn't mind one bit. She was happy simply to be marrying John. The retrial, however, loomed over their lives. It kept getting delayed, and Ash Robinson made sure the DA's office didn't forget about it. He bombarded them with phone calls demanding to know when the new trial would begin. Eventually, it was scheduled for November nineteen seventy two, but enthusiasm for the case was running on fumes. Ernie Ernst had retired and I. D. McMaster had moved on to his new role as a district judge. The case was shuffled from prosecutor to prosecutor, none of whom seemed eager to take it on. Ashe tried to breathe new life into it, claiming he had found a mystery witness with explosive new allegations against John. The DA's office dismissed it as just another entry for the nut call's folder. Meanwhile, John and Connie were quietly building a new life together, Connie opened a music school, while John's patient roster slowly began to fill up again. Their social calendar was far quieter than it had been during John's marriage to Joan. Instead, the couple spent their evenings at home, often in the music room, enjoying each other's company and finding solace in their shared love of music. In September nineteen seventy to, just two months before John's retrial, he and Connie flew to Seattle for her cousin's wedding. Afterward, they planned to head to Las Vegas for an annual plastic surgery convention. On their flight to Vegas, the plane made a stop in San Francisco. Connie, not usually one for spontaneity, turned to John and said, why don't we stay here for a day. No one

1:01:19 will miss us at the convention. John didn't need convincing. He hated Las Vegas and he wasn't looking forward to the conference. What started as a one day detour turned into four. They embraced the charm of San Francisco, attending the opera, dining at elegant restaurants, riding the iconic cable cars, and exploring Golden Gate Park. Eventually, they made their way to Vegas to catch the final couple of days of the convention. When they returned to Houston, they hailed a taxi from the airport. As they pulled up to the house, Connie jumped out, excited to share stories of their trip with Robert John's now twelve year old son. John stayed behind to settle the fair with the driver. Connie approached the front door, ringing the bell well. She pressed her face against the glass panel behind it, squishing her nose playfully, hoping to make Robert laugh when he came to the door, but no one came. Myra John's mother was supposed to be watching Robert, yet there was no sign of her either.

1:02:14 Connie rang the bell again and saw someone approaching the door. Squinting, she assumed it was Robert in some kind of costume. The door opened and Connie froze. Standing in front of her was a strange man pointing a gun. He grabbed the necklace around her neck and said this is a robbery. Before Connie could react, John appeared behind her. He pushed her aside and stepped toward the gunman. Panicked, Connie ran toward a neighbor's house. Just as she reached their property line, she heard gunshots. My husband's being murdered, she screamed, as the neighbor opened the door. The neighbor quickly called the police. Another neighbor, hearing the commotion, ran toward the Hills home. There he found young Robert Hill standing over his father's body, sobbing, They've killed my daddy. When emergency responded arrived, they found John Hill lying face down near the front door. Turning him over, they saw adhesive tape covering his nose and mouth, with more tape sealing his eyes shut. The paramedics checked for vital signs, but it was too late. John Hill was dead.

1:03:16 Wow. I didn't see that coming. What kind of did but I didn't. Yeah, I'm afraid that is where we are going to end part two. Wow, a lot more of this story to tell. It's crazy that there's a whole nother episode to go. Yeah, there is. I don't want to put the car before the horse, but I'm guessing that that wasn't a real burglary attempt. Well, I guess you're gonna have to come back for part three to find out more about that, which is not going to happen until I get back from Europe, so you're gonna have to wait a few days. Felt like I can't read the script because you have part three. Here, I'm gonna take away have permissions right now. I'm going to share it with the listeners too. We're not gonna wait. So we already talked a little bit about if you were in ashes shoes that you probably would have acted similarly in trying to.

1:04:02 Get limitless amounts of money. Yeah, I would definitely want to avenge the death of my child. Sure. But do you think that John actually killed Joan? Oh? Yeah, I think so. I think he had something to do with it. If you don't, I don't know, I really to me really, I mean, we've we've gone through all the medical evidence. We're going to go through their back, multiple autopsies, so we're really not going to learn. And that's the third part has nothing to do with Joan's death. No, it's really about finding justice for John's death at this point. But Jon's death, I don't know. I mean, it just seems in the fact that. He took her to the smaller hospital and he's a doctor. Yeah, you know, if you're a doctor, you know when someone is on death's. Door, right you should. Yeah.

1:04:42 Yeah, so I think he knew how ill she was, the fact that he left her there and he thought he was in love with this other woman, I think the cards are stacked against him. Yeah, And the thing with that Anne had said with the Peatri dishes is how he was harvesting harmful bacteria, Like that's one of the smarter ways that we have heard of poisoning someone. So you know, if if you could introduce I think like human excrement into your digestive system, I think that could probably kill you, right. Yeah, I do think Anne's testimony there, I mean, she was definitely out to get John. She had an axe to grind with him. But the fact that she talked about the Petrie dishes and she had that level of detail to it kind of makes me think, yeah, maybe there was something to that because she wasn't really a medical professional, so she wouldn't have known what that.

1:05:32 Meant or anything like that. So yeah, that is interesting. I don't know, I have mixed feelings about it. But what makes you think that he is Innocent's evidence? Yeah, the fact that no autopsy found anything really you know, damaging to him specifically, but I guess if he didn't have we. Had tissue samples, but we didn't have blood, right. Yeah. I just wish that there was some like smoking gun in the autopsy that pointed to him. But I guess at this point John has paid the price regardless. Do you think that the DA's office acted properly in the way that they indicted and charged John or do you think they acted under pressure from Ash and others? I think there was definitely pressure there Cecil being on the grand jury was definitely suspicious, right, and he was a staunch advocate for ashe and the politics too of the DA. It was at the DA the assistant DA was running for a judge position.

1:06:27 Yeah, yeah, so I think for him it was the publicity was not a bad thing. So it does seem a little shady like it seems like money and politics, kind. Of local political races really can change the course of an investigation and a trial. Yeah, for sure. What do you think is going to happen from here? I mean, I think Ash maybe is gonna. Have to do you think he's behind this. Well, obviously there's a whole other part, so yeah, so I think he is behind them and I think, I mean he. Had really he really hated John hen to hate him after a while. And I don't blame I mean, I don't blame him. But you can't take justice into your own hands. Yeah, murder is never okay.

1:07:15 I thought before we close, it would be fun to share some interesting horse facts since this case revolves around Joan, who was a champion of question, and since John's lawyer was named racehorse. Right, sure, well he wasn't named racehorse because he liked racehorses. No, he wasn't. But still it's a tie in, all right. I've not I didn't. I never knew much about horses. Have you ever ridden a horse or been a horse person? Yes, I have a couple few times. And if you're not a horse rider, it's I don't think I've ever been a sore as I was my entire life. Were you like a teenager it was maybe it was a long rite, I don't know, but my inner thighs were just they hurt. Horses in general kind of scare me because there's they're so large, it's very big. And I had an that was yeh. I can't remember if she was kicked by a horse or her ankle was stepped on by a horse and she was never the same again.

1:08:07 Oh wow. And so when Emma, our daughter, wanted to take she was really into horse She wanted to be a horse girl, and she she was a horse girl, except I wouldn't let her take lessons. Yeah, she was. She was really she was really small when she was little, and I just, I don't know, It's one of the things I feel kind of bad about. We never said no to our kids, but that was one thing that she really wanted to do that, but I just kept envision her getting kicked or falling off the horse. So yeah, all right, So here are my interesting horse facts. There are estimated sixty million horses in the world, combining wild and domesticated horses. Do you know how many wild horses there are in the US. I wasn't able to find a number globally, but twenty thousand, somewhere between seventy one and ninety six thousand. That number is dropping year over year. The Bureau of Land Management they kind of managed this sort of wild horse population in the US, and they're actually they actually want it to decline because they believe that the amount of like land, public land that they have to roam on is not big enough to sustain as many horses as.

1:09:10 There are are They mostly in the West. Yeah, they're mostly in like California, Oregon, Utah, Montana, and Wyoming, so pretty much where you would expect. The horses have near three hundred and sixty degree vision, but they have their blind spots are directly in front of them and directly behind them, which is why it's really dangerous to approach a horse from behind. So you're was it your aunt? So maybe that's what she did, because that's Horses get really upset if you approach them from behind, and that's when they kick. Many people pat horses to reward them for a job well done, but horses do not find being padded rewarding. They really like to be scratched, not padded.

1:09:51 So remember that if you ever come across a horse. Horse's grades for up to seventeen hours a day. That's a lot of greasy. I know, I only grades for like sixteen. It's got to be a cloak a close time between you and horse. But due to their physiology, they have to take in food constantly. And small that must be exhausting. Yes, and they are physiologically incapable of burping or throwing up. Mmmm. Is that because they have multiple chambers to their stomach like cows. I'm not a horse doctor. I can't explain why they're physically physiologically incapable. I just know that they are. But this is why they are prone to getting colic, because they can't like release gas.

1:10:32 From know they have colic. Yeah, of courses are prone to getting colic. There are fewer bones in a horse's body than a human, only by one. Okay, so it's really close. Well, they have fewer bones in their feet, probably because their feet are or their hooks. I'm not sure I understand. Well, we have a lot of bones in our hands and our feet that we articulate for, like you know, digital movement. Rights are a little simpler. Maybe I have two more quick facts. All horses are one of the few mammals where the males do not have nipples. Oh, thank you for sharing that. I know they share. The other mammals that don't have nipples are mice and rats, right. Right, I didn't know that. I mean why it is baffling why male species have but it is it is.

1:11:17 A little odd. Last fact is horses do doze while they're standing up, but to get proper deep r em sleep, they need to lie down. So many a horse owner has actually experienced people driving by and stopping to tell them that their horse is dead, but their horse is just lying down and taking a nap. I actually thought the horses slept standing up. I think most people do. Yeah, I thought that as well. What do you think horse are em sleep looks like? I bet they have really good dreams of just running around and being crazy in the wind and grazing, and they probably dream of burping. Like I had a dream last night about a person that I worked with like one hundred years ago, when I didn't even I didn't like the guy. It wasn't like a romantic dream or anything like that. It was just like he was in my dream. And then I woke up and I was like, why was that guy in my dream?

1:12:09 Dreams are so weird, so random. Yeah, I don't remember my dreams anymore, Like, very rarely do I remember a dream. It kind of makes me sad, because I like those random things where something pops into your head and you're like. Oh, this one, where did that comes from? This one? Really? I was like, I really actively disliked this guy, so it's kind of weird. Yeah, very strange. Well, thank you so much for hanging out with us. We truly appreciate each and every one of you. If you can't wait to hear what happens to Ash and Part three, you can join us on Patreon. Go to patreon dot com Slash Love Mary Kill for early ad free episodes and the multi parts are all available at the same time, and we give you a monthly bonus episode. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us on social media, or send us an email.

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