June 9, 2025

Katherine Knight

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Content warning: This episode contains discussions of domestic violence, mental illness, suicide, and graphic violence that may be disturbing to some listeners. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

Katherine Knight was known in her small Australian town in New South Wales, Aberdeen, as tough, unpredictable, and deeply troubled. She had a history of violent relationships, a fierce temper, and a dark past that few dared to challenge. When she entered a new relationship in the late 1990s, friends and family were concerned—but no one could have predicted how it would end. In this episode, we explore the life of Katherine Knight, the red flags that were ignored, and the events that led to one of the most infamous criminal cases in Australian history.

Today's snacks: Snag, aka sausage sizzle and fairy bread

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WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm Tina and I'm rich. And if there's one

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thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's.

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That some days you'll feel like killing.

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Your wife and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to Love, Mary kill Good, I'm eight, good day.

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How are you?

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How bad was that Australian accent? Oh? Is that that

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we're going to Australia today?

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Excellent?

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I'm going to tell you a truly horrible story.

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Okay.

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When you think of Australians, what do you think of?

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I think of really like fun people, just like kind

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of easygoing.

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Down to earth, kind, hardworking people who love the outdoors.

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Right yeah.

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And you know some Australians.

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Ye, I've worked with quite a few Australians.

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And they're great people, right yeah.

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I have not known any Australians that I really dislike.

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Well, today, I'm going to tell you a story of

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an Australian who might make you question everything you know

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about the wonderful people of Australia. Boy, Okay, but I

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believe that she's an outlier. Yeah, this is the most

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requested case that we've ever had. Really, I think it's

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all of our Australian friends who ever quested it, and

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boy it's a doozy really about twelve percent of our

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downloads come from Australia. They're just the nicest people that

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I've ever come across. I love when I get to

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talk to our Australian listeners, especially Chanel. Chanelle is the

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one that tells me a lot about Australia, what they eat,

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how they talk. And there's one word in particular that

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they say in Australia that here in the States we

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really don't say. Yeah, we might say to see you

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next Tuesday, but in Australia they just blurt it out. Yeah,

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it's just kind of a.

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It's not like such a horrible word.

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No, it's not, and you know, it's all context and

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here we just don't say, but they're they do.

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Before we get into the case, can I just say

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that you have an uncanny ability to pick our recording

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time that always corresponds exactly to a Tiger's game starting.

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If there's a Tigers game starting at four o'clock, I

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can almost predict that you're going to want to record

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at four o'clock.

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Well, that is definitely a coincidence. There is no conspiracy

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here with I don't care of you with baseball day long.

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Who encouraged you to go to the baseball game last weekend?

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By the way you did that was me?

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That was okay, fair enough.

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Well, I have something I need to talk to you

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about that the listeners are curious to know. They would

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like prove that you are in the top one percent

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of the intelligence of the world's population. You can't just

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you know, say that fact without offering some sort of backup.

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So I've had several listeners reach out and say that

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we'd really like some proof that that your husband is

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as smart as he says he is. I couldn't give

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him anything.

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No, you can't go.

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No, so you'll be producing improved sure. Well, before we

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get to Catherine Knight, I have a snack for you,

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and of course it is an Australian Nope, it is

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not vegemite. It is a sausage sizzle with tomato sauce.

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Wow, that looks like much more than a snack.

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Yeah, it's well just what it sounds like. Really, it's

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a sausage what we would call a broughtwurst. I grilled

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some onions for you and I put ketchup on it

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and it has to be served on white bread. You

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can't use a button. Excellent, looks good, all right, why

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don't you give it a try. So we just had

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snags and bread, snags and bread. You can call it

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a sausage sizzle or a snack. What did you think?

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I thought it was really good. I mean nothing not

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to like there.

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Yeah. Chanelle told me that it was recently an election

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day in Australia and when you wait in line to vote,

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you will get a sausage that's.

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Like provided to you by the government.

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They just give well, I'm not sure if it's just

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like you know, the voting the polling place will have them.

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That would be good motivation to go vote.

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Absolutely well, I think you have to vote there.

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Oh interesting.

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So what would you rate the sausage sizzle?

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I mean I'd give it a ten out of ten?

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Would you really? Okay? So that was a Johnsonville brought

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on a piece of white bread.

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But it was actually went really on the white bread.

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It really worked well. I think it was a good

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bread that you chose to.

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I did get like a nicer bread and the onions

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were pretty good.

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Yeah.

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Fun fact, I hate raw onions like I can't tolerate

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raw onions at all, but I like when they're grilled.

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Well, that is a super fun fact.

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Shut up, it's the truth and you know it. Thank

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you to Tara, Rhianna and Renee and the many other

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people that have recommended this case. I think it's been

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recommended for a couple of years and I've finally got

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to it. There is a content warning for today's episode.

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This episode contains discussion of domestic violence, mental illness, suicide,

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and graphic violence that may be disturbing to some listeners.

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Listener discretion is strongly advised. The case of Catherine Knight

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is one you won't soon forget. It's a gruesome tale

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of a woman ruled saying by the legal system, but

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her actions are clearly those of a mad woman. Everyone

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in the town of one thousand, seven hundred and fifty

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knew her and feared her. It's not to say that

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she was always a tyrant. She could be sweet, generous

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and a good friend, but many of her instincts were primal.

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In nineteen forty nine, Catherine's mother, Barbara Ruffin, ran away

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from her difficult life in rural Aberdeen, New South Wales

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with a man named ken Knight, hoping for a fresh start. Aberdeen,

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about three hours north of Sydney, then had a population

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of about fifteen hundred. Up to that point, her life

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had been marked by hardship and pain. Born Barbara Thoroley,

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she was raised in deep poverty, neglected and unloved. Her

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father left when she was young, leaving her mother to

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feed and care for the children. Barbara was sent to

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live in a home for wayward girls for a time.

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Do you know what a wayward girl is? We hear

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the termal live.

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I do hear that term now that I think about it,

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And I guess it's somebody who doesn't really have a home.

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Or is troubled child who is difficult to manage due

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to their unpredictable or rebellious behavior. They might be wilful, disobedient,

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or prone to making bad choices.

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So today, do we have homes for wayward children today?

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Probably a foster home?

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Yeah, I guess so. But it can't you can't just

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like as a parent. You can't just be like you're

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being difficult, I'm sending you to the home for wayward children.

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Probably not. She suffered sexual abuse as a child, and

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tragically the abuse didn't end when she married. Known for

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her tough exterior and sharp tongue, Robara also battled serious

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mental health challenges, including several nervous breakdowns that required hospitalization.

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She often feared that madness ran in the women of

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her family. At the time she left, Barbara was the

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mother of four sons, Patrick, Martin, Neville, and Barry, the

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youngest less than a year old. Her husband, Jack Ruffin,

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managed a pig farm, but was known to drink and

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gamble away the family's money. Barbara's grandmother was believed to

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be an indigenous woman from the More region who had

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married an irishman. Barbara took pride in this heritage and

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liked to view her family as having Aboriginal roots. However,

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due to the strong racial prejudices in the area during

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this this time, this part of her background was kept

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hidden and became a source of inner conflict for the children.

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Ken Knight had worked at various slaughter houses or abbatoars

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since he'd left school at age fourteen. He was in

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high demand due to his expert knife skills and work

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ethic among the bountiful farms in the area. Farming, raising, livestock,

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and mining were the main industries in the area. Much

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of the housing in Aberdeen was provided by the mines

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or the abbatoir in the form of barracks or small cottages.

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Ken was well liked among his peers. Even Jack Ruffin

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was known to enjoy an occasional pint with him. The

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Knight family had deep roots in Aberdeen and were well

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known rough riders. Some nights, Barbara dragged Jack from the

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pub to come home for dinner. This was how Ken

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was first introduced to Barbara. He flirted with her and

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she enjoyed it. Her husband hadn't noticed her in years.

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Soon Barbara and Jack began meeting in his one bedroom

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apartment for sex. She was blind to his excessive drinking.

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Excited to have a distraction from her mundane life, she

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began refusing sex with her husband, and he became irate,

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and their already tense marriage grew worse. Jack saw a

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bruise on her thigh that appeared to be in the

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shape of a man's hand. Furious, he beat Barbara badly

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and threw her out of the house. Gossip traveled fast

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in the small town, and Barbara became a town pariah.

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Even her own sons spat on her when they encountered

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her in town. With nowhere to go, she moved in

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with Ken, Confirming Jack's suspicions. He sent their two youngest

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sons to live with his sister in Sydney. Barbara and

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Kenn absconded to the town of Morie, where he again

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found work in an abattoir. Barbara quietly divorced her first

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husband and married Ken. It's not clear if her pregnancy

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prompted the hasty marriage, but Barbara began showing soon after

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a fifth son was born to her, and then quickly

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after a sixth. She wearied realized that this marriage would

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fare no better than the first. When she discovered that

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Ken was a raging alcoholic. She really should have caught

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onto this sooner, but having lost her first four sons

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in the divorce, she clung to her two newest sons,

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afraid she would lose them if she complained too loudly.

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Ken's voracious sexual appetite as many as ten times a

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day exhausted Barbara. If she refused, she would be beaten

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or even worse, raped ten times a day, that's wild.

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How do you find the time? The young sons? She

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once adored, soon began to mimic their father's behavior, demanding

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rather than asking, and treating their mother more like a

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servant than a parent. Barbara was left feeling trapped and miserable,

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with no relief in sight. In nineteen fifty five, she

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discovered that she was pregnant again, with twins. She was

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sure she'd have two more ungrateful, demanding sons, but to

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her great surprise and delight, on October twenty fourth, nineteen

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fifty five, twin girls were born, her praternal but both

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with red hair like her. First enter the world was

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Joy Gwendolen, and half an hour later, Catherine Mary made

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her entrance. In five years, Barbara had had six children.

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A lot of kids for five years.

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Robert knew the twins would have to be tough to

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survive in a house full of unruly males. They lived

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in a ramshackle house pieced together with spit and gum,

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not nearly big enough for all of its inhabitants. Joy

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gravitated towards the boys with their raucous games and sports,

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but Catherine preferred to spend time by her mother's side,

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playing with dolls and learning to cook. Despite their differences,

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Joy and cath remained lifelong best friends. All of the

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children were beaten by their father, whether for misbehaving or

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for some perceived slight or minor misstep. His weapon of

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joys was either a dog leash or an extension cord.

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The night house was not a happy one. The parents

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constantly fought and didn't care who heard. When Ken forced

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himself on to Barbara, he didn't bother to even close

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the door. Ken was a tyrant, but had a soft

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spot for Catherine. She learned faster than the rest of

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the children, and he preferred her feminine nature. Kathy loved animals.

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If she found one that was injured, she would take

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it home, nurse it back to health, and then release

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it back to the wild. She had a strong affinity

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for domestic work, particularly cooking, and she gradually took over

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many of the household responsibilities from her mother. Barbara confided

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in her young daughter that men were pigs. She hated them.

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In nineteen fifty seven, when the twins were just two

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years old, Jack, Barbara's first husband, suddenly died, likely from

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the effects of alcoholism and heart disease, but also possibly

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from frequent consumption of bex Powders ex Powders bex Powders

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were a popular Australian over the counter painkiller, widely used

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from the nineteen thirties to the nineteen seventies. Marketed mainly

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to women with the slogan A cup of tea, a

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bex and a good lie doown, bex Powders contained a

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compound of aspirin, fanac t and caffeine. Though initially seen

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as a harmless remedy for everyday ailments, habitual use led

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to serious health consequences. Medical research in the nineteen sixties

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linked X to kidney failure and cancer, prompting the removal

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of fanacetan in nineteen seventy five and a full ban

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on such compounds by nineteen seventy seven. Bex Powders remain

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a cautionary example of the dangers of unchecked pharmaceutical marketing

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and long term drug use. Thank you for indulging me,

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00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.720
oh at Little bar always learned new things from your episodes.

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Ditto Barbara's too oldest sons, who'd lived with their father,

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came to live with her new family in a house

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that was already bursting at the seams. The boys hadn't

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had anything to do with Barbara and years, and they

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called her whore to her face. They quickly gained a

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reputation for being rough with girls, using them only for

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their own pleasure, and the girls of Marie soon learned

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to steer clear of them sexually. Frustrated, they turned their

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attention to their sister Catherine. As young as four, she

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suffered from sexual assault from her half brothers and later

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from the younger two as well. She went to her

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mother for help, and she told her, quote, just let

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them do what they want. It's easier that way.

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Oh that's horrible. Do you know what happened to the

259
00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:17.399
other two boys? There were four boys that lived with.

260
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Their They went to live with their aunt in Sydney.

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Some psychiatrist, by the way, questioned whether Catherine was actually

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sexually abused by relatives or not, but the relatives confirmed

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that it did happen okay.

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As a young teenager, Catherine began spending time at her

265
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uncle Oscar's horse farm. The time with her uncle was

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a welcome respite from her troubled home life. Oscar Knight

267
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had been an expert horseman in his younger years. He

268
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taught Catherine how to respect animals and nurse the injured

269
00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.240
ones back to hell. He was the only adult in

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her life that saw potential in her and nurtured it. However,

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Oscar suffered from severe depression, and in nineteen sixty nine,

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at age thirty four, he took his own life. Catherine,

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just fourteen, was devastated. She has kept some of his

274
00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.120
possessions with her throughout her life and claims that his

275
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ghost has visited her. Oscar's death was a turning point

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for her. She realized she had every right to protect

277
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:14.399
herself from the predators in her home and beyond, and

278
00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.000
began denying them the twisted carnal pleasure that they sought

279
00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.360
from her. She kept a knife with her and stabbed

280
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anyone who tried to violate her body or personal space.

281
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It became commonplace to see one of the four brothers

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sporting a black eye. Cathy had been scared of the

283
00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:32.360
dark and suffered from enurysis throughout her life, but once

284
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the sexual abuse abated, these conditions improved. Soon after, Barbara's

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00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.679
family warmed to her again and forgave her for her

286
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:44.320
past transgressions. Encouraged by the improving relationship, the Knight family

287
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.720
moved back to Aberdeen. Being the new girl at Muswellbrook

288
00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:51.440
High School, Catherine was subjected to teasing and unwanted attention

289
00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.679
from boys and girls. When one girl stuck her foot

290
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.000
out in the bus aisle to trip her up, Catherine

291
00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:00.159
lopped off her ponytail. After a boy commented a on

292
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.519
her butting breasts, her calm demeanor quickly shifted to rage,

293
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and she slammed his face into the seat ahead of

294
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him and knocked out his teeth.

295
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:10.840
The school bus is like the wild wild West, isn't it.

296
00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:13.799
It was like that when I was definitely I learned

297
00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:15.039
a lot on the school bus.

298
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:15.600
Uh huh.

299
00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:19.720
Her typical personality was cheerful, friendly and polite, but now

300
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:22.960
people knew not to cross her. She wasn't the most studious,

301
00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:25.559
but Kathy was a model student and well liked by

302
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:29.559
her teachers. When students came forward suggesting Catherine had bullied

303
00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:32.320
or threatened them, they didn't believe it and turned a

304
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:34.879
blind eye, even when a boy was found bleeding from

305
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:35.679
a stab wound.

306
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:40.240
So Kathy was very good at manipulating situations to make

307
00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:42.919
it appear that she was a victim, and she did

308
00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:44.440
this throughout her life.

309
00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:45.960
Okay, Well, it sounds like a lot of times she

310
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:49.200
was sort of a victim too, but apparently that evolved

311
00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:52.080
over time. Kathy kept a small knife hidden in her

312
00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:55.960
skirts to protect herself if someone crossed her boundaries. One day,

313
00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:58.480
her rage boiled over onto a teacher who gave her

314
00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:02.120
a failing grade on a test. Enraged, she chased after

315
00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.519
him with the little knife she drew from her waistband.

316
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:07.279
She hit the ground after he punched her squarely in

317
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:11.080
the face. They were both suspended. She returned once the

318
00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:14.360
suspension was over, but with her reputation ruined, she didn't

319
00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:15.399
come back the next year.

320
00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.120
I wanted to mention that I read two books for

321
00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:22.559
this case, and they had contradicting facts out. Yeah, it's

322
00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.000
really hard when that happens, so I did my best.

323
00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.440
It's possible that I have a few things that were

324
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.600
different in both of the stories, and one of them

325
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.399
was that Kathy could barely read and write by the

326
00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:35.600
time she left school.

327
00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:39.120
Okay, After she quit school, she went to the abattoir

328
00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:43.159
or slaughterhouse where her father worked, seeking employment. Ken Knight

329
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.279
had made a good living and was a master at

330
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.720
expertly carving up the flesh of animals, leaving little waste. Catherine,

331
00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.120
slim and weak, was turned away and told it was

332
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.360
work for a man. However, she gained employment working in

333
00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:58.600
a textile factory, cutting the large bolts of fabric to

334
00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.840
size a late growth spurret, and the hard work increased

335
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:02.960
her size and strength.

336
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.599
It's rumored that she was about six feet tall, and

337
00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.559
I couldn't corroborate this information, but I think she was

338
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.240
a big, strong, healthy, hearty woman.

339
00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.960
Okay. She enjoyed the work, but she longed to work

340
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.200
at the slaughterhouse with the men. It was her dream. Wow,

341
00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:19.799
that's an interesting dream to have.

342
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.480
Well, there weren't a lot of avenues for people in Aberdeen.

343
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:23.880
You know.

344
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.519
You either worked in a mine, or you worked on

345
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.440
a farm, or you worked at the avatar.

346
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:30.279
Yeah, I guess that would be better than working in

347
00:17:30.279 --> 00:17:34.119
the mine. Still only fifteen, Catherine enjoyed the freedom, more

348
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:36.640
comfortable in the company of men. After her shift at

349
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:39.200
the textile factory, she would head to the pub and

350
00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:41.079
drink with the men from the slaughterhouse.

351
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:44.559
Can you imagine this life? She's only fifteen, she's living

352
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on her own, she's working at.

353
00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:49.279
Going out drinking with the guys after work. Yeah, that's

354
00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:50.680
really hard to imagine.

355
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:53.200
People were probably more mature than.

356
00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:54.960
What do you think or know if they were more mature,

357
00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:57.160
but they kind of had to grow up more quickly

358
00:17:57.200 --> 00:17:57.640
than I think.

359
00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:59.759
It was probably good for her to escape the house

360
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:01.759
that she grew up there, because it sounded like that

361
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:02.599
was pretty horrific.

362
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.799
Yeah. There were only two pubs in Aberdeen, the Top

363
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:09.680
Pub and the Bottom Pub. That's what they were called neat.

364
00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.319
The Top Pub was located in a hotel at the

365
00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:15.640
top of the hill. Catherine befriended the bartender and whispered

366
00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:18.440
in his ear that she did not want to drink alcohol. Ever,

367
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.200
she asked to instead be served lemonade. None of the men, ever,

368
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.960
knew that she wasn't matching them drink for drink. She

369
00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:28.599
was loud, foul mouth, and attention seeking. When she turned

370
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:32.319
sixteen in nineteen seventy one, she applied again at the slaughterhouse.

371
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:34.920
This time, some of her male friends from the pub

372
00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.200
vouched for her and she was hired. Catherine mastered the job,

373
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.519
quickly impressing the men with her knife skills. Her job

374
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.079
was to clean congealed marrow and blood out of the

375
00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.640
carcasses and cut the meat into smaller pieces. She was

376
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.799
promoted within weeks to the most challenging job in the factory,

377
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.960
de boning. Her father was one of, if not the

378
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.359
top man in the plant, and soon his daughter was

379
00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:59.119
nipping at his heels to take his position, which made

380
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.799
him work harder than he had in years. In fact,

381
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.960
Catherine's work ethic and precision encouraged all of the men

382
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.279
in the plant to work harder. The owners of the

383
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.319
slaughter house gifted her with a personalized set of knives

384
00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:13.559
in an embroidered leather case. She was so proud of

385
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.279
the knives she mounted them over her bed in case

386
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:19.039
she ever needed them, and with each move, the knives

387
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:22.680
went up first. Catherine was fascinated by every aspect of

388
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.359
meat processing, even the slaughter itself. On her days off

389
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.000
or during lunch breaks, she would often wander into the

390
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.839
pig room to watch as the squealing animals were killed.

391
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:35.559
Unfazed by the grizzly scene, she struck up a friendship

392
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.200
with the executioner, who eventually taught her how to slit

393
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:42.440
a pig's throat. Drawn to the macabre, Catherine began experimenting

394
00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.400
with different methods of killing instead of using the quick

395
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.960
humane approach. She tested how varying the placement of cuts

396
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:52.000
affected the time it took for the pigs to die.

397
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:55.039
Sometimes she would chase them around with knives, slicing it

398
00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.720
muscles and nerves. It was cruel, disturbing and against the rules.

399
00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:04.279
That sounds kind of like serial killer warning, red flag behavior.

400
00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:07.480
Yeah, and she went from nursing animals back to health

401
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:12.200
enjoying their death. It is pretty disturbing, it is.

402
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:14.039
We'll be back after a break.

403
00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:23.920
As the men in the Abbatoar got to know Catherine,

404
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.119
many found her attractive and were very interested in her.

405
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.119
She had matured a bed and become more chill. When

406
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.759
she was younger, she was just a little aggressive and

407
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:36.839
scared them off easily. But she started to date a

408
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.960
man named David Kellett who was about five years older.

409
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.240
He had a reputation as a troublemaker and had a

410
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.640
police record, but it wasn't anything too serious. He drove

411
00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.559
a delivery truck for the Abatar. He was friends with

412
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.839
Charlie Knight, Caath's brother. The pair would spend the whole

413
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.200
weekend drinking and raising hell. Charlie brought day at home

414
00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.240
one night for dinner and introduced him to his twin sisters.

415
00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:02.240
They were with hull Raisers too, and soon were going

416
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.359
to the pub with Charlie and David for fun. Sometimes

417
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:08.680
they'd shoot at passing trains. Once they shot a steer,

418
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.920
cut it up with a chainsaw and barbecue it. Kath

419
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:15.559
insisted on skinning it and saving the hide. They'd go

420
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:19.880
rabbit hunting, and again Catherine's favorite part was skidding them.

421
00:21:20.119 --> 00:21:22.680
One night of the pub, Kathy knocked out a miner's

422
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.240
teeth after he insulted David. Several men had to pull

423
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.400
her off the man. She was kicked out of the

424
00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.079
bar and told not to come back. Others in the

425
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.440
bar thought she had too much to drink, but the

426
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:38.039
bartender knew her secret. She wasn't drunk, just impulsive and violent.

427
00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:40.599
David was a bit of a hellion, but he carried

428
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.000
himself with a kind, polite charm and had a generous

429
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:48.119
heart for Katherine. This was her first serious relationship, and

430
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.279
she dove in head first. Her intensity in the bedroom

431
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:55.559
surprised David, but he also saw a softer, more nurturing

432
00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:58.440
sight of her, one that stood in stark contrast to

433
00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:03.480
the top persona. She ped at the Abbatoar. She cooked well, sewed,

434
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.039
and kept a tidy home. Before long, David moved into

435
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.400
her apartment. Feeling like one of the luckiest men alive.

436
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:14.839
I feel like that's foreshadowing. What do you mean, I

437
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.960
feel like maybe he wasn't really the luckiest man alive.

438
00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.839
Well, he felt like that for a time, right. He

439
00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:23.799
had an odd conversation with Barbara Knight when they met

440
00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:26.400
for the first time. In her crude way, she warned

441
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:29.559
him not to marry Catherine. Quote, you'd better watch that

442
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:32.200
one or she'll fucking kill you. Stir her up the

443
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.480
wrong way or do the wrong thing, and you're fucked.

444
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.279
Don't ever think of playing up on her. She'll fucking

445
00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:42.480
kill you. In nineteen seventy four, shortly after Catherine turned eighteen,

446
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:45.319
she and David got married. She wore a pink mini

447
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:47.720
dress with a large bow in the center of her chest.

448
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.039
David dressed up in a purple Paisley shirt with a

449
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.240
Peter Pan collar and a lavender tie.

450
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.559
I had a Paisley shirt when I was a little kid.

451
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.200
I remember seeing I loved that shirt so much.

452
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.039
Very handsome in that picture, or should I say beautiful

453
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:02.480
because you kind of looked like a little girl.

454
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.839
Well, I was only like seven years old, so to

455
00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:07.440
call me hansome, you know, I don't know. It was

456
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:08.039
really young.

457
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:11.279
Catherine stood a full head taller than her diminutive groom,

458
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.039
and both sported the popular shag hairstyle from the seventies.

459
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.480
They hopped onto her motorcycle and rode to the next

460
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.880
town to make it official at the registry office. David

461
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.920
had recently lost his license, not that it mattered, he

462
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:27.839
wasn't in any condition to drive that day anyway. The

463
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:30.559
couple spent the rest of the day celebrating and drinking

464
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.200
with family at the local pub. I believe at some

465
00:23:33.319 --> 00:23:38.519
point Catherine switched from drinking lemonade to actual alcohol. When

466
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.759
they returned to their apartment, Catherine tore David's clothes off

467
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.240
to consummate their marriage. They had sex three times before

468
00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:50.400
David nodded off, impressive really, considering how much alcohol he'd consumed,

469
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.920
but Catherine was insatiable and angrily slapped him and pounded

470
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:57.720
his chest with her fists, trying to wake him up.

471
00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:00.880
When she was unable to wake him, he mounted him

472
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:04.079
and wrapped her hands strong from the manual labor of

473
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.359
her work around his neck and strangled him. He was

474
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.920
jerked awake, gasping for breath, not aware that his new

475
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:14.000
bride had attempted to kill him. As he slowly became

476
00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:16.559
aware of the pain around his neck, he realized that

477
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:20.200
Catherine had choked him merely to death. She apologized and

478
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:22.920
told him that she'd gotten a little carried away and

479
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:25.400
begged him to come back to bed. They needed to

480
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.240
have sex at least two more times. She pleaded, more

481
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.839
than satisfied, proud even of their three earlier rounds. He

482
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:35.440
was confused. Catherine said, quote, Daddy did it five times

483
00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:37.160
on his wedding night, and we need to do it

484
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.079
at least that many times. David was suddenly completely sober

485
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.160
and scared. Who had he married? Had Barbara been right?

486
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.680
He sweetly told Kath that he'd be ready again. After

487
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.279
a quick trip to the bathroom, He locked the door,

488
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:54.880
crawled into the bathtub, and promptly fell asleep while his

489
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:57.920
new wife angrily pounded on the door. When that's a

490
00:24:57.960 --> 00:24:59.759
wedding night, you're not soon going.

491
00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:01.559
To forget that is pretty memorable.

492
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:05.359
Well, despite their rocky wedding night, Catherine and David settled

493
00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:08.799
into wedded bliss. She was able to control her impulsive

494
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.920
anger and was the perfect wife for the most part.

495
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:14.920
She still slapped David when she was angry, but he

496
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.680
refused to hit her back. Kathy took care of all

497
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.000
of David's needs and the domestic chores, all while meeting

498
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:24.119
the physical demands her job. But within the first year

499
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.160
of their marriage, Kathy became increasingly twitchy. If David was

500
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:31.119
home one minute later than she expected him, her mind

501
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:34.119
immediately went to dark places. She was sure he was

502
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:37.359
seeing other women behind her back, and the thought crushed her.

503
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.279
She loved him so much, he was her everything, and

504
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:43.240
she needed the same level of love returned to her.

505
00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:47.160
But David was faithful. He thought, other than her occasional

506
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:50.200
irrational anger, she was the wife he wanted. He gave

507
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.680
up his truck driving for a lower paying job on

508
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:55.559
the plant floor so Catherine could keep an eye on him.

509
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:58.960
David instantly missed his old job. He wasn't as big

510
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:01.200
as the other men on the life and couldn't keep

511
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:04.000
up with a fast pace. He grew depressed and began

512
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.400
spending more time drinking, first with Catherine at his side,

513
00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:09.920
but she preferred the comfort of their nights at home.

514
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:12.640
She was drawn to the comforts of cooking, tending to

515
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.119
their home, sewing and patching David's clothes, But she couldn't

516
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:18.839
trust him to sit in the pub by himself, or

517
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.960
could she. Catherine decided to allow her husband a little

518
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:24.480
more freedom to pursue the things that brought her joy.

519
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:27.880
When she became pregnant at age nineteen, her fits of

520
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:32.079
rage worsened, maybe in part because of the unrelenting morning sickness.

521
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:35.880
Catherine was conflicted about becoming pregnant. Part of her crave

522
00:26:35.960 --> 00:26:38.720
the love and connection she was denied growing up, while

523
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:42.240
another part resented the responsibility of bearing a child and

524
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.519
feared passing on her own trauma. The emotional tug of

525
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.880
war in part fueled her volatility. One night, David came

526
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.359
home only long enough to change into a clean shirt

527
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:54.440
before he headed to the pub. A slow anger nod

528
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.440
at her until she combusted. She was sure that he

529
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:01.720
was cheating, despite his denials. Later he admitted I had

530
00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.119
a few morals in the early days of her marriage.

531
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:07.480
I remained faithful up until she was four months pregnant.

532
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.079
Catherine gathered all of her husband's clothes, many sewn by

533
00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.279
her own hand, threw them into the bathtub, doused them

534
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:17.960
with accelerant, and set them ablaze. As the smoke poured

535
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.839
from their apartment, neighbors called the fire department to put

536
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:23.839
out the fire. Many of the firefighters were called from

537
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.759
the pub to the Kellet's apartment. David went along to

538
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.880
witness the excitement, unaware that it was his home that

539
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.640
was on fire. After the fire, they moved to a

540
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:37.079
small house on the ironically named Honeymoon Lane. David was

541
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:39.599
so embarrassed by the fire he didn't return to the

542
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:41.039
pub for several weeks.

543
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:43.200
So what she did actually worked.

544
00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.400
Kind of, but of course he couldn't stay away for long.

545
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.759
David never knew which wife would greet him sweet, doting

546
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:53.319
Kathy or fiery Catherine. One night, when he returned home,

547
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.359
she threw a hot iron at his face, causing severe burns.

548
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.400
He screamed in agony and ran to the bathroom, locking

549
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:02.839
the door behind him. Catherine beat at the door with

550
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:05.839
a hot iron, yelling at him to come out. Moments later,

551
00:28:05.960 --> 00:28:10.000
she realized what she'd done and began sobbing, begging for forgiveness.

552
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:13.319
David forgave her but he was in great pain and

553
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:16.480
needed medical treatment, but held off going to the hospital

554
00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.200
because he knew his wife would be arrested for the abuse.

555
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.920
The next day, David's supervisor, shocked at the severity of

556
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:25.880
his injury, took him to the hospital for treatment. The

557
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:30.160
marriage became untenable. David was constantly scared for his life,

558
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.319
and Catherine, between her bouts of fury, pretended to be

559
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:36.000
the perfect wife, but one false move would set her

560
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.759
off again, even if he was only one minute later

561
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.279
than he promised. Despite her commitment to quell the violence,

562
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:45.440
the next time David came home minutes late, he was

563
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.960
hid in the face with a cast iron skillet. He

564
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:51.599
lay on the ground unconscious for an hour before he

565
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.599
awoke and crawled to the neighbor's house. They called an

566
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:58.279
ambulance and he was rushed to the hospital, severely concussed

567
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:02.119
with a fractured skull. He awoke to Catherine lovingly stroking

568
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.680
his face, holding his hand, and quietly weeping. The trauma

569
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:08.799
was so severe that David had no memory of the incident.

570
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.440
Like many victims of domestic abuse, he found himself trapped

571
00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:16.279
in the endless cycle of violence, remorse, and hollow promises

572
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:20.440
of change. Despite everything, David never spoke harshly to Catherine,

573
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:23.400
nor did he ever raise a hand against her. It's

574
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:26.880
important to note here that domestic violence victims can be

575
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:29.559
male or female. And a lot of times I think

576
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:32.559
men feel, you know, like I can't raise a hand

577
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:35.680
to a woman. And really David took a lot of abuse,

578
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.440
and by all accounts he was a real sweet man.

579
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:42.160
It's interesting that the patterns are very similar, whether it's

580
00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.359
a man doing the abusing or whether it's a woman

581
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:45.160
doing the abusing.

582
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.000
There was another grace period full of love and happiness,

583
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:51.319
until a dart tournament went long one night and Catherine

584
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:54.599
waited with the skillet in hand. Again. This time, David

585
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:57.200
was ready for the attack and avoided a direct hit.

586
00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.400
He ran from the house and spent the night on

587
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:02.279
her friend's ca He loved the sweet side of his wife.

588
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:05.279
What the angry abuse of wife scared him. All of

589
00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:08.359
Catherine's fears about David leaving her were about to come

590
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.319
to fruition. He was seeing another woman on the side

591
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.839
from Queensland. When she told him that she was also pregnant.

592
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.000
David started thinking about leaving Catherine, who was nearing the

593
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:20.880
end of her pregnancy. He returned home the night after

594
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:24.000
the frying pan incident with fresh pork chops from the

595
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:27.599
butcher and flowers. All was once again forgiven in a

596
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:31.000
period of calm ensued. Six weeks later, in May nineteen

597
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:34.359
seventy six, Catherine's water broke. She called her parents in

598
00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:36.720
a panic to take her to the hospital. They left

599
00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:39.319
in a rush. David offered to pack a suitcase for

600
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:42.079
Catherine and meet them at the hospital as soon as possible,

601
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:45.519
but instead of packing Catherine's things, he escaped to the pub,

602
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:48.359
leaving Catherine alone and afraid at the hospital at the

603
00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:51.960
time she needed him most. The ultimate betrayal delivered at

604
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.400
the very worst time. Realizing her worst fears.

605
00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:58.920
And the labor was long and torturous, Catherine wailed. Her

606
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.119
screams of pain, both physical and emotional, echoed through the

607
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:05.519
hospital corridors. She was forlorn that her husband didn't show

608
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:08.640
up for her and his new daughter, Melissa Anne. Kath

609
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.279
and David had fought over the name because Melissa was

610
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.359
the name of a previous girlfriend, but ultimately he won

611
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:17.319
the battle. Her sister Joy went to the pub looking

612
00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:20.119
for David and recruited his friends to search for him.

613
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:24.039
After enduring nearly two months of Cathy's volatile postpartum rage,

614
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:27.839
David slipped away quietly. He left both Kathy and their

615
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.319
infant daughter Melissa behind, heading north to Queensland to be

616
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:34.000
with the other woman, who was already pregnant with his

617
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.559
second child. Before disappearing, he made one final stop at

618
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:40.839
the abattoir to quit his job, offering no explanation to

619
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:44.279
anyone about where he was going or why. The despair

620
00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:47.000
of losing her husband prevented her from bonding with her

621
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.319
new sweet baby, Melissa Anne. Over time, Catherine's deep despair

622
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:55.599
transformed into seething anger. As her broken heart mended, scabbed over,

623
00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:58.759
and turned black. She plotted her revenge on the man

624
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:01.559
she had taken such good care of and loved so well.

625
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.359
Catherine had been right to question if she was fit

626
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:07.039
for motherhood. Sadly, she was not cut out for it

627
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:10.440
at all, and baby Melissa from the very beginning, suffered

628
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:14.160
horrible neglect and abuse from her volatile mother. Catherine could

629
00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:16.440
be seen pushing the stroller that had been gifted to

630
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.400
her from her parents up and down the streets of Aberdeen.

631
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.359
Yelling at the tiny infant. No one brave enough to

632
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.160
stop her. The whole town was aware of her history

633
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:26.400
of impulsive violence.

634
00:32:26.839 --> 00:32:29.920
I think the streets were in bad repair, and poor

635
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:32.759
baby Melissa, like you know, our head was going. Yeah,

636
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:36.000
she was jostling around, and she was just angrily pushing

637
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.319
the stroller up and down the streets, and probably it

638
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:41.200
sounded like a little bit like she could have had

639
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:43.960
shaken babysit. Yeah, it sounded horrible.

640
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.799
Eventually, Catherine was picked up by the police and they

641
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:49.680
found her hysterically crying and clearly in the throes of

642
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:53.319
a mental breakdown, likely fueled by the abandonment of her husband,

643
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:57.839
postpartum hormones, and her usual fits of rage. Melissa was

644
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:00.960
taken to Catherine's parents' house. Whilene was taken to a

645
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.519
psychiatric hospital. When they found that Kathy was struggling to

646
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.119
read and write. She was given an IQ test and

647
00:33:07.160 --> 00:33:09.440
she scored in the low eighties, which is on the

648
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:11.319
low end of the average.

649
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:13.920
And where you again in the IQ range.

650
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:18.160
No comment. They found her to be an interesting case. Catherine,

651
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:21.119
according to the psychologists who were treating her, performed at

652
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.160
a base level. Her instincts and impulses were more in

653
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:27.039
line with a caveman than a woman in modern society.

654
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:31.400
She was diagnosed with psychopathy compounded by narcissism, and they

655
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:35.799
suspected she suffered from borderline personality disorder too. Catherine was

656
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.519
in the hospital for about a week before she was released.

657
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:41.599
With several prescriptions in hand. She picked up the baby

658
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:43.799
from her parents' house and went home to her sad,

659
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:47.519
empty house. The next night, a man named Ted Abrahams,

660
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:51.039
a war veteran who struggled with PTSD, was foraging for

661
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.039
some wild mushrooms near the railroad tracks. He was a

662
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.200
familiar sight in Aberdeen, and most residents gave him a

663
00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.960
wide berth. Ted was good at minding his own business

664
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:02.880
and keeping to himself. When he heard a small baby

665
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:06.400
crying incessantly, he ignored her cries until he realized that

666
00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:09.239
the baby had been placed directly on the tracks, which

667
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.440
were vibrating from an approaching train in the distance. He

668
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.360
ran and scooped up the baby, saving her young life.

669
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.039
The baby was Melissa. In another incident, a truck driver

670
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.440
was leaving the pub and found Melissa in the back

671
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.119
of his truck in her pram ah so horrible, non horrible. Well,

672
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:27.599
so he picked up the baby from the railroad tracks,

673
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.599
and then she was returned to Catherine. After that, I.

674
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:33.519
Don't think she was I think that she went to

675
00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:35.119
stay with Kath's parents again.

676
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.000
Catherine was found wandering around town, lathered up in a fury.

677
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:41.880
She had stolen an axe from a neighbor's backyard and

678
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:45.280
began swinging it wildly in a murderous rage. Her eyes

679
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.679
were wild, with guttural grunts escaping her lips as she

680
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:52.599
moved with a frenzied, almost feral rage. The police again

681
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.559
captured her. She was taken back to the hospital, her

682
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:59.440
meds adjusted, and released. Soon after. Her parents again picked

683
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:01.719
her up and her home, but this time they were

684
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.440
wiser and kept Melissa with them. Aberdeen was a small town,

685
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.679
and news and gossip traveled quickly. The whole town was

686
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:11.960
on edge, worried when Catherine would strike next. No one

687
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.360
felt safe. A few nights later, sixteen year old Margaret

688
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:18.719
macbeth was home babysitting her brother while her parents were out.

689
00:35:19.039 --> 00:35:23.760
Catherine pounded on the door frantically. When Margaret answered, Catherine said, quote,

690
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:25.920
my baby is sick and I don't have my car.

691
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.400
I need to get to her. Will you take me please.

692
00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:31.599
Once Catherine, Margaret and her brother were in the car,

693
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.920
Catherine told her that they were driving to Queensland. David

694
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.719
was in Queensland. Poor Margaret was terrified. She protested and

695
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:40.760
said her brother should get to stay at home because

696
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:43.199
he had school the next day. She saw a large

697
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.000
knife glinting that sat on the seat next to Catherine.

698
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:49.840
Catherine told her shut up and drive. When Margaret hedged,

699
00:35:49.960 --> 00:35:52.400
Catherine reached across the seat and slashed her in the

700
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.159
cheek with the knife. Her brother yelled from the back

701
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:57.480
seat it was lucky that the car was nearly out

702
00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:00.760
of gas. Margaret pointed to the gage and told Catherine

703
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:03.559
that they would need to stop before their thousand mile journey.

704
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:06.400
She relented and allowed the girl to stop to fill

705
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.559
the tank. Margaret calmly walked into pay and then pleaded

706
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.639
with the attendant to call the police. Quote, please, you've

707
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.400
got to help me me and my brother. We've been kidnapped.

708
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:18.280
It's Catherine Knight. She's got a knife. She wants me

709
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.079
to drive her to Queensland. She did this to my face.

710
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:25.280
Please call the police. Please. Margaret was too frightened to

711
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.880
return to the car. Her brother took his chance and

712
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.440
bolted from the back seat, but Catherine caught him by

713
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.599
the collar and threw him to the ground and held

714
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.960
a knife to him. She yelled to Margaret to get

715
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.559
back in the car, but she refused. If she could

716
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:40.039
stall for a few more minutes, the police would arrive.

717
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:43.360
She could hear the sirens in the distance. Catherine, in

718
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.119
her fit of rage, didn't seem to notice. The police

719
00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:48.480
approached carefully and asked her to let the boy go,

720
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:53.599
but she refused. She threatened them all, waving the knife wildly. Eventually,

721
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.880
she released the boy from her grasp and he ran

722
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:59.239
to safety. Catherine punched and swiped at the officers in

723
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.519
her reach until someone knocked the knife out of her

724
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.960
hand using a long broom handle. It took two officers

725
00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:07.719
to wrestle her to the ground, handcuff her, and throw

726
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.280
her into the back of a police car. This time

727
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:14.840
she was admitted to a high security facility, Morisset Psychiatric Hospital.

728
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.719
It sits on two hundred acres in a park like setting.

729
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:22.599
Catherine was not an ideal patient. She was disruptive, rude, violent,

730
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:26.280
and confrontational. She spat the medication out into the faces

731
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:29.159
of the staff and destroyed her room. With time, she

732
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.480
became more compliant, but ultimately the staff believed that no

733
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:35.719
amount of therapy or medication would help her. She was

734
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:39.639
besieged with getting revenge on David. In every therapy session.

735
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:42.360
She was forthcoming that she wanted to kill and she'd

736
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:44.440
find a way to do it. She was angry with

737
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:47.719
her parents too, and felt abandoned by them. I'm glad

738
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:52.440
that she has been committed to a high security psychiatric institution.

739
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:54.239
It sounds like that's where she belongs.

740
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:57.599
Yeah, she was definitely struggling with her mental health and

741
00:37:57.679 --> 00:37:59.239
her violent impulses.

742
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.880
Yeah. I have a bad feeling though, that she is

743
00:38:01.880 --> 00:38:02.840
not going to remain.

744
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:05.199
There, probably not as long as she needed to be.

745
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:07.320
We'll be back after a break.

746
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:16.679
Before we jump back into the case, I have a

747
00:38:16.719 --> 00:38:17.840
halftime stack for you.

748
00:38:18.280 --> 00:38:19.639
Get ready, Yes, I am.

749
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.000
This is a very simple, yet delicious snack that is

750
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:27.840
often served at birthday parties for Australian children. Oh, it's

751
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:28.920
called fairy bread.

752
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:29.800
Interesting.

753
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.559
It's just a piece of white bread with butter and

754
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:33.519
sprinkles on it.

755
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:34.199
Oh, okay.

756
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.599
I put a little powdered sugar on it because I

757
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:39.320
can't be well left alone. Yes, do you want to

758
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:39.639
try it?

759
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:40.119
I sure do.

760
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:47.199
Did you like the fairy bread?

761
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:49.880
Yeah? I mean it was bread and butter with sugar

762
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:51.719
on it, so it was good.

763
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.039
Just a pretty cute little tree, yeah. Yeah. And you're

764
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:56.800
having a cup of tea so perfect perfect. David was

765
00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:00.320
worn by police about Catherine's vendetta against him. He felt

766
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:04.320
exceptionally guilty and responsible for his wife's mental breakdown. He

767
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.800
and his mother moved back to Aberdeen to help care

768
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.440
for Catherine, leaving him behind his very pregnant girlfriend. He

769
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:13.320
got his old job back at the Slaughterhouse and rented

770
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:16.039
a small apartment. After she'd been in the hospital for

771
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.480
about a month, Catherine was released into his custody on

772
00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:23.360
August ninth, nineteen seventy six. David also picked up baby

773
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.039
Melissa from the Knight's house. When he knocked on the

774
00:39:26.079 --> 00:39:29.599
farmhouse door, Barbara was done to see him standing there.

775
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.800
Her shock quickly turned to fury as she lashed out,

776
00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.440
striking him with her fists and shouting through tears, blaming

777
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:39.440
him for destroying her daughter's life. David fell to the

778
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:42.639
ground while Barbara kicked him. Poor David can't get a break.

779
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:43.239
Oh I know.

780
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:46.559
Katherine, who was waiting in the car partially zoned out

781
00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:49.119
because the amount of drugs she'd been prescribed, ran to

782
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.519
her husband's defense. She punched her mother, clipping her in

783
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:55.840
the jaw, knocking her off her feet. Quote. Don't you

784
00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.760
ever lay a hand on David again. He saved me.

785
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:01.360
You left me to run, and he came back for me.

786
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:05.079
He's mine, mine. You never even get to look at

787
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:05.760
him again.

788
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:06.400
Boy.

789
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.320
Catherine took the sleeping baby from her father's arms and

790
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:11.639
left with David and his mother to the new apartment,

791
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.880
But soon the gossip and judgmental eyes of the townspeople

792
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:17.400
of Aberdeen were too much for all of them, and

793
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:21.679
they relocated again to Woodbridge, a quiet suburb of Brisbane,

794
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:24.480
with missus Kellett tending to the baby in the house.

795
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:27.800
Catherine had a job at another abatoar. She again impressed

796
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:30.760
her bosses and co workers with her knife skills, but

797
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:34.199
soon Catherine found herself bored. As much as she hated

798
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:37.800
being fodder for the town's gossips and Aberdeen, she equally

799
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.320
hated not getting attention. She'd been consistent with the medication,

800
00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:44.639
but didn't like how it quelled her spirit. She missed

801
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:47.719
the strong emotions surging through her body. It was better

802
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:51.079
than the constant numbness. Even her feelings toward the husband

803
00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:54.719
that she had loved so passionately had cooled. Her greatest

804
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:57.440
joy was finding animals on the road to hit with

805
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.920
her car. She settled into a rhythm for a few

806
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:05.360
years before, on March sixth, nineteen eighty, Natasha Marie Kellett,

807
00:41:05.480 --> 00:41:08.840
Catherine and David's second child, was born. This time, David

808
00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:12.079
was by her side, holding her hand and encouraging her.

809
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:15.480
In nineteen eighty four, when Melissa was eight and Natasha four,

810
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:19.119
Catherine twenty nine, filed for divorce and took the girls

811
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:21.760
with her back to Aberdeen and moved in with her parents.

812
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.960
David seemed relieved and didn't contest her decision.

813
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:26.119
Can't say I blame him.

814
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.320
Catherine returned to her old slaughter house, where she'd had

815
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.639
such a stellar reputation before her troubles began. She was

816
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:35.920
again a star employee, but tragedy struck two years later

817
00:41:36.159 --> 00:41:39.480
when she suffered a debilitating back injury. She was granted

818
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:43.320
a disability pension in worker's compensation through her union along

819
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.920
with the Government Housing Commission apartment on the outskirts of Aberdeen.

820
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:49.559
She never worked again in her beloved abatar.

821
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.519
I have a bad feeling that the abattoir was an

822
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:56.000
outlet for her urgas that she had to kill things,

823
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:58.199
and now that she can't work there anymore, it's not

824
00:41:58.239 --> 00:41:58.800
going to be good.

825
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:00.719
That's a various too observation.

826
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:01.519
Thank you.

827
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:04.360
Now, single, Catherine began going to the pubs at night,

828
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:07.159
leaving her young girls alone. She met a thirty eight

829
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:11.119
year old miner named David Saunders at the Aberdeen Bowling Club.

830
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.199
So this is the second David in her life. Remember,

831
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:16.920
Catherine loved the domestic arts. She was an excellent cook

832
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:20.280
and caregiver. When the spirit moved her, David felt like

833
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:23.280
the luckiest man alive, much like the first David did.

834
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:26.480
In the beginning of their relationship, he began spending most

835
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:30.039
of his time at her house. He adored Melissa and Natasha.

836
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:33.119
When he surprised them with the puppy, the girls instantly

837
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:35.840
fell in love. They were a happy little family, but

838
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:39.119
soon the trajectory of their relationship went much the same

839
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.440
as her last David had heard the rumors around town

840
00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:46.320
about Catherine's temper, but chose not to believe them. Catherine

841
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:49.920
constantly accused him of cheating. During one argument, to drive

842
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.639
her point home, she grabbed the puppy by the scruff

843
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.800
of its neck and slid its throat, warning David she

844
00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:58.440
would do the same to him if he was unfaithful.

845
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:01.559
Oh that is Oh, that's so horrible.

846
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.920
Her rage and callousness was shocking. She then grabbed her

847
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.840
favorite cast iron skillet and began to beat him over

848
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:10.719
the head until he lost consciousness. When he came to,

849
00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:13.199
he was in rough shape, but he was able to

850
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.360
drive home to his apartment, where he stayed for a

851
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:18.719
week nursing his wounds until Catherine showed up. He was

852
00:43:18.760 --> 00:43:21.360
horrified to see her, sure she was there to finish

853
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:24.559
him off, but she sobbed, begged him for forgiveness and

854
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:27.920
promised it would never happen again. He forgave her and

855
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:29.239
the relationship resumed.

856
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:30.360
Don't believe her, David.

857
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.119
Soon Catherine was pregnant again. This was David's first child

858
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:36.400
and he wanted to do things right. He bought a

859
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:39.960
small plain house in Aberdeen for his growing family. Catherine,

860
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:42.440
who had always rented, was Thrilled to finally have a

861
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.719
place to call her own, she threw herself into decorating

862
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:48.960
the house and set to work, immediately decorating every inch

863
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:51.719
of the tiny house with her own special brand of

864
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:55.159
interior design. The walls and even the ceilings were covered

865
00:43:55.159 --> 00:43:59.719
in animal pelts, cowhides, water, buffalo and fur wraps, alongside

866
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.719
deer horns, sheep and cowskulls, and deer antlers. Prominently displayed

867
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:07.960
among the macab menagerie were a stuffed peacock and a

868
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:14.400
baby deer, rusted animal traps, leather coats and a motorcycle jacket. Sheddies, rakes, boots,

869
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:17.440
a writing crop and saddle, and a massive wooden fork

870
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:20.639
and spoon hung from the rafters and walls, while her

871
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.559
beloved knives glimmered from their designated spot above her bad

872
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:29.079
Every available surface overflowed with old newspapers, clothes, books, and

873
00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:33.920
bric a brac. Her extensive video collection unsurprisingly focused almost

874
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.199
entirely on horror and death. Just brushing against a wall

875
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.039
was liable to give you tetanus, but to Catherine it

876
00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:40.639
was perfect.

877
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.400
Sounds like a horror movie.

878
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.960
It does. I saw a video that had footage from

879
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.280
the house and it was pretty much like it's described.

880
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.880
I'll try to find some pictures to post, but it's crazy.

881
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:56.639
When Sarah, Catherine's third daughter, was born in June nineteen

882
00:44:56.679 --> 00:44:59.920
eighty eight, Catherine, then thirty two, suffered another mental break

883
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.360
down of swords. After her birth, the children in the

884
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:05.239
house and David all went unattended. He would return from

885
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:08.360
work exhausted and angry at the state of things. David

886
00:45:08.440 --> 00:45:10.880
wasn't afraid to yell at Catherine for the condition of

887
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:13.199
the house and children. One day, when he didn't have

888
00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:16.840
any more clean clothes, he confronted her. In response, she

889
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:19.480
took his shirts and pants one by one and cut

890
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.840
them in half. When he protested scissors in hand, she

891
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:25.880
stabbed him in the gut. She twisted the scissors before

892
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.760
removing them. When she grabbed for the iron, he ran

893
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:31.480
from the house, leaving a bloody trail behind him. He

894
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.400
jumped into his car straight to the hospital. Luckily, the

895
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.199
wound wasn't as deep as it seemed, and Catherine missed

896
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:40.719
his vital organs. He didn't return for several months. He

897
00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:43.800
sent cards, letters, and gifts to the girls, but Catherine

898
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:46.519
never let them see any of it. She threw everything

899
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:49.480
right into the trash. David planned to rescue the three

900
00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:52.480
girls from Catherine, but as he drove into Aberdeen, he

901
00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:55.000
was pulled over by the police and notified that she

902
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:57.840
had accused him of domestic violence and filed an a

903
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:01.639
v O against him, or an aprinded violence order, which

904
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:04.119
is much like a restraining order. David was told he

905
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:07.280
needed to leave Aberdeen immediately or he would be arrested,

906
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:11.719
so he left. Catherine received a substantial payout from the Slaughterhouse,

907
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.800
around fifteen thousand dollars, which she used to pay off

908
00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:18.079
the house, planning to take it over from David. To remember,

909
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:19.239
he bought the house right.

910
00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:22.880
Catherine first met John Chillingworth when she was a teenager

911
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:24.679
working at the Slaughterhouse, so.

912
00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:26.599
We have two John's and two David's, okay.

913
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:29.639
At the time he turned down her advances. He had

914
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:32.400
been tempted, but she was ten years younger. But when

915
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:35.679
John returned to Aberdeen in nineteen eighty nine after divorcing

916
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:39.599
his wife, the two reconnected. Catherine quickly seduced him, and

917
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:42.360
like the men before him, John believed that he had

918
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:45.159
struck gold. John spent most of his free time at

919
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:47.920
the pub before he went to Catherine's house and ravaged her.

920
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.639
If it's not clear up to this point, Catherine had

921
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:55.599
a voracious sexual appetite and the men were very satisfied.

922
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:59.639
Okay, Catherine had easily manipulated both David's, each of them

923
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:02.920
in tim by her explosive temper, But John was different.

924
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:06.280
He wasn't afraid to fight back. Melissa, who was fifteen

925
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:08.440
at the time, had already dropped out of school like

926
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:11.440
her mother and was dating much older men. Soon she

927
00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:14.599
would be pregnant with her first child, making Katherine a grandmother.

928
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:18.800
She had inherited Catherine's fiery disposition. When she saw John

929
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:21.960
strike her mother, Melissa confronted him, shouting in his face.

930
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:26.960
John responded by slapping Melissa. Catherine became pregnant again. John

931
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:29.840
kept his distance for much of the pregnancy, worn down

932
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:33.840
by her mood swings and constant accusations of infidelity, But

933
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:38.639
unlike her previous relationships, Catherine's suspicions were justified. John was

934
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:42.079
seeing other women. In late nineteen ninety one, Catherine gave

935
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.159
birth to her fourth and final child, a son named Eric.

936
00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:49.559
Not long after, she began experiencing episodes of postpartum rage.

937
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.039
In one outburst, she punched John so hard his false

938
00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:56.039
teeth flew from his mouth and scattered across the floor.

939
00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:58.760
He left that night to stay at his apartment, but

940
00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.599
when he returned the next time day, he found Catherine

941
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:04.760
in a dire state. She had overdosed on sleeping pills.

942
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:09.039
John rushed her to the hospital, where doctors pumped her stomach. Afterwards,

943
00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:11.760
she was admitted to the mental hospital again for another

944
00:48:11.800 --> 00:48:14.360
week to stabilize her and get her back on track.

945
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:17.519
When Catherine returned home, she thought she would give John

946
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:20.480
a taste of his own medicine. She had planned it perfectly,

947
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.400
timing it so that when John came home, he would

948
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:26.480
find her in bed with another man, John Price. He

949
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:29.679
didn't say a word, He simply turned around and walked out,

950
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:32.719
this time for good. He moved to a different town,

951
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:36.159
got sober, and eventually began helping others by becoming an

952
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:37.239
addiction counselor.

953
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:39.760
Finally some good news.

954
00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:43.239
John Price was born in April nineteen fifty five, the

955
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:46.639
oldest of six children. He was a mind supervisor and

956
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.079
a recently divorced father of three, a son and two daughters.

957
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.039
He and his wife Colleen had separated amicably after fifteen

958
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:57.239
years of marriage. A fight between John's father and brother

959
00:48:57.400 --> 00:49:00.519
resulted in his mother's death when she was accident shot

960
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.559
with a bullet intended for the senior Price. The sun

961
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:05.719
was charged with manslaughter.

962
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:08.599
So the Price family they were no strangers to tragedy.

963
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:11.880
Yeah, it sounds like it. John and Catherine, both forty four,

964
00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:14.039
had been having an affair for about a year when

965
00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:18.119
John Chillingworth walked in on him and Katherine together. John

966
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:21.320
Price Pricey, to his friends, was a kind and gentle man.

967
00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.480
Of course, there were arguments, but they weren't as violent

968
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:28.440
as with Catherine's past relationships. Kathy wanted to marry John,

969
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:31.800
but her reputation and one failed marriage was enough for him.

970
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:34.840
Plus the dynamics with all of their children was challenging

971
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:38.079
to work out. Instead, Catherine and her children moved into

972
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:41.880
John's house and surprisingly they were happy. All the children

973
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:44.559
liked each other and the fighting was kept to a minimum.

974
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:48.000
I think by this time Natasha and Melissa were both

975
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:51.280
living on their own, okay, and I couldn't confirm the

976
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:53.800
age of John's children, but I think that they were

977
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:56.880
older too, except for he had one that was very young, okay,

978
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:58.920
so I think that it might have just been like

979
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:01.000
the three younger child in the house.

980
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:04.920
Okay. But after an ugly fight, spiteful Catherine reported John

981
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:08.440
to the mind management for stealing some expired medical kits

982
00:50:08.480 --> 00:50:10.159
that he had retrieved from the garbage.

983
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:12.639
And I wouldn't even consider this stealing. They were in

984
00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:14.599
the garbage, so he just took them.

985
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:17.800
Right, seemingly a benign offense, but he was fired after

986
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:21.519
seventeen years of service to the mine. Furious John kicked

987
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:24.239
Catherine and her children out of his house, tossing their

988
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:27.639
belongings onto the curb. She was hell bent on revenge,

989
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:30.559
and the punishment she had in mind was so savage,

990
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.480
so unforgettable, it would echo through time and be remembered

991
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:37.760
for generations. I think I'm fearful for what is to

992
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:38.679
come in this story.

993
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:40.880
It gets pretty grizzly here.

994
00:50:41.320 --> 00:50:44.920
Catherine offered her nephew five hundred dollars to steal John's car,

995
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.079
set it on fire, and throw battery acid in his face.

996
00:50:48.440 --> 00:50:52.239
Her nephew refused. She didn't bother hiding her intentions, telling

997
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:55.400
her brother outright quote, I'm going to kill Pricey and

998
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:57.840
I'll get away with it because I'll pretend I'm insane.

999
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.559
But after about a month and allowed her back into

1000
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:03.960
his life. He had taken the loss of his one

1001
00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:07.280
hundred thousand dollars a year job hard, drinking heavily every

1002
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:09.880
day and burning through his savings until he got a

1003
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:14.760
job in construction. John's concerned friends staged and intervention of sorts.

1004
00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:18.519
They summoned David Kellett, Catherine's first husband, to the bar

1005
00:51:18.679 --> 00:51:21.360
with his scarred face to divulge all of his war

1006
00:51:21.440 --> 00:51:24.800
stories about Catherine. David had never been okay again after

1007
00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:27.519
the attack with the iron. He lived in hiding because

1008
00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.519
he was afraid Catherine would finish him off. He warned

1009
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:33.800
David that she was capable of terrible things, even murder.

1010
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:36.920
John listened closely and seemed to take his warnings to

1011
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:39.519
heart because he didn't allow Catherine to move into his

1012
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:43.559
house again despite her persistent please, although she did spend

1013
00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:44.519
a lot of time there.

1014
00:51:44.920 --> 00:51:48.639
John lost a lot of mates over his relationship with Catherine.

1015
00:51:48.679 --> 00:51:52.119
They saw how dangerous and volatile she was, and when

1016
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:55.519
he kept taking her back, they just got kind of disgusted,

1017
00:51:55.559 --> 00:51:57.599
and you know, like they tried to stage this intervention

1018
00:51:57.760 --> 00:52:00.760
for him and tried to show him like, this could really,

1019
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:04.119
you know, you could end up dead, and he just didn't.

1020
00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:07.280
He knew that she was capable of it, but for

1021
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:08.960
some reason, he just kept taking her back.

1022
00:52:09.320 --> 00:52:12.239
Soon after, they had a huge fight and Catherine stabbed

1023
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:14.880
him with a knife in the chest. It missed his heart,

1024
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:17.480
but it shocked him. It was a serious wound, but

1025
00:52:17.719 --> 00:52:19.599
he put a band aid on it and didn't seek

1026
00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:23.519
medical treatment. Police arrived and served John with a restraining

1027
00:52:23.639 --> 00:52:26.559
order that Kathy had filed against him. She showed the

1028
00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:30.000
police bruises that he had allegedly left on her. Despite

1029
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:32.360
the restraining order, Kath was still at his house and

1030
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:35.440
made his lunch the next morning, February twenty ninth, two

1031
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:39.639
thousand leap day. At work, coworkers noticed blood seeping from

1032
00:52:39.639 --> 00:52:43.280
the wound through his shirt. He was feeling frazzled and anxious.

1033
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:45.880
He confided to his boss that he had awoken the

1034
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:49.239
night before to find Catherine looming over him, leering at

1035
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:52.199
him with her hands behind her back. His boss offered

1036
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:54.519
to let him stay in his guesthouse, but John didn't

1037
00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:57.440
want anyone else to get hurt in the crosshairs. John

1038
00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:00.440
banned Kath from his house and filed a restrain order

1039
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:04.400
against her. He was done with the six year tumultuous relationship,

1040
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:08.079
but a restraining order meant nothing to Catherine Knight. John

1041
00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:11.199
was still fearful. He told his coworkers quote, if I

1042
00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:13.440
don't show up for work tomorrow, it'll be because she

1043
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:17.480
killed me. It was a chilling premonition. Tragically, John never

1044
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:20.760
showed up for work the next day or any day thereafter.

1045
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:23.639
When he got home that night, he jumped when someone

1046
00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:26.360
pounded on his door, But John was grateful to see

1047
00:53:26.360 --> 00:53:29.960
his friendly neighbor, Anthony Keegan or Keego, who invited him

1048
00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:32.559
over for a drink. They spent the evening drinking in

1049
00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:35.639
the garden together, John opening up about how badly he

1050
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:38.519
wanted Catherine, or the speckled hen as he called her,

1051
00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:41.760
out of his life. John stumbled home around eleven and

1052
00:53:41.840 --> 00:53:45.039
fell into a peaceful slumber until he was awoken by

1053
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:48.119
a very unwelcome intruder who climbed into his bed.

1054
00:53:48.679 --> 00:53:52.000
In the shadows of John's day, Catherine had lurked watching

1055
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.079
him from afar, plotting her vengeance. She'd taken the video

1056
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:57.000
camera that John had given her as a gift for

1057
00:53:57.079 --> 00:54:00.519
Christmas and made a video walking around her house, citing

1058
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:03.679
ownership of her possessions in case of her death. There

1059
00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:06.559
was also footage of her happily playing with her children

1060
00:54:06.599 --> 00:54:09.199
and grandchild. She took all of her children out to

1061
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:12.360
dinner that night at a Chinese restaurant and asked Natasha

1062
00:54:12.400 --> 00:54:15.079
to take Sarah and Eric home with her for the night.

1063
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:18.480
Then Kath drove to town to buy a new lingerie

1064
00:54:18.559 --> 00:54:21.559
set for the seduction she planned. Later, while John was

1065
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:24.480
drinking with his neighbor, Catherine showered and changed into her

1066
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:27.519
seductive outfit and waited for him. She heard him come

1067
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:30.280
in and fall into bed. When she heard storing, she

1068
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:33.800
crawled into bed with John, mounted him, and began having sex.

1069
00:54:34.119 --> 00:54:37.199
He awoke after a few moments and was equal parts

1070
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:41.000
horrified and grateful for the carnal pleasure. While still engaged

1071
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:43.519
in sex, she produced a knife and stabbed John in

1072
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:46.840
the chest over and over again, a filling a long

1073
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:50.400
held dark fantasy. Drunk and groggy, John was slow to

1074
00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.400
react at first, but as he gathered awareness, he jumped

1075
00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:55.519
up and bolted out of the room, only to find

1076
00:54:55.559 --> 00:54:58.480
himself weakened by the sudden loss of blood. Kat struck

1077
00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:01.119
him twice more on his broad back before he fell

1078
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:04.440
to the carpeted floor, instantly soaking it in blood. He

1079
00:55:04.519 --> 00:55:06.480
crawled to the front door and was able to reach

1080
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:09.679
the handle while Catherine was still stabbing away at him.

1081
00:55:10.039 --> 00:55:12.239
He opened the door and pulled himself to the porch,

1082
00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:14.840
but he was spent and unable to yell as one

1083
00:55:14.880 --> 00:55:18.840
of his lungs was punctured. Catherine, full of adrenaline and excitement,

1084
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:21.280
grabbed him by the ankles and pulled him back into

1085
00:55:21.320 --> 00:55:26.199
the house. After suffering thirty seven stab wounds, Pricey was dead.

1086
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:29.679
As the high of finally fulfilling her deadly fantasy faded,

1087
00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:33.000
the reality of what she'd done quickly set in, spurring

1088
00:55:33.039 --> 00:55:36.039
her into action. She cleaned herself of John's blood in

1089
00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:39.760
the shower and then drove into Aberdeen with John's ATM

1090
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:42.360
card in her hand. She withdrew as much money as

1091
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:45.280
she could, about one thousand dollars, planning to flee to

1092
00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.519
a new town, but when she returned to the scene

1093
00:55:47.559 --> 00:55:50.960
of the crime, she devised a new plan. And oddly,

1094
00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:53.480
this money was never accounted for. They knew that she'd

1095
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:57.639
withdrawn it, but they don't know where it went interesting. Okay,

1096
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:00.480
this is where we need to insert a trigger warning

1097
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:04.400
because it is very gruesome and grizzly. What happens next. Okay,

1098
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:06.960
Remember that Catherine was an expert with her knives, and

1099
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:09.559
she took pride in how sharp she kept them. It

1100
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:11.760
was as if she'd been treating her whole life for

1101
00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:14.760
this moment. She took a long knife and with one

1102
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:19.079
strong thwack, she separated John's head from his body. She

1103
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:23.559
severed his genitals and began meticulously separating his skin from

1104
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:26.719
his tissues with her skilled knife work. When her work

1105
00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:30.119
was complete, she hung his skin from the ceiling beams,

1106
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:33.599
giving it a curtain like effect. Her technique was so

1107
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:36.639
skilled that John's skin was later able to be pieced

1108
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:40.800
together and sewn back together onto his body. Catherine placed

1109
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:44.719
John's skinned head into a large soup pot on the stove,

1110
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:50.239
threw in some hastily chopped vegetables zucchini, potato, squash, cabbage,

1111
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.440
and topped it off with water, and then turned the

1112
00:56:52.440 --> 00:56:55.440
burner to hide. Inspired by the soup her mother maid

1113
00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:58.159
when she was a child from a pig's head, wanting

1114
00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:01.159
more meat in her gruesome stew, she added more of

1115
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:04.880
John's flesh to her pot. She severed John's buttocks, cut

1116
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:07.880
them into five pieces, and roasted them in the oven.

1117
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:11.559
I think your face is indicative of probably every listener's face,

1118
00:57:11.599 --> 00:57:14.679
that this is just so disgusting it is. She put

1119
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:16.679
some of the meat out for the dog, who never

1120
00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:19.760
touched it. Perhaps worse than her crime was that she

1121
00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:23.239
intended to feed the meal to John's two children, Becky

1122
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:26.719
and John Junior. She heaped two plates with the grotesque

1123
00:57:26.800 --> 00:57:29.159
stew and placed them on the table, with their names

1124
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:32.000
written on a paper towel next to each dish. Kath

1125
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:34.639
positioned John's body on a chair with a left arm

1126
00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:37.639
draped over an empty leader of soda, with his legs

1127
00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:41.159
crossed in a lifelike pose. She left a crudely written

1128
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:45.679
note with poor grammar and spelling, quote, time got you back,

1129
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:50.119
Jonathan for raping my daughter. You to back for ross

1130
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:53.519
for little John. Now play with the little John's dick,

1131
00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:56.280
John Price. I'm not sure what all this means, but

1132
00:57:56.400 --> 00:58:00.559
she's implying that John was a pedophile and raped her daughter. Okay,

1133
00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:02.960
when she thought the meal was ready, she took a bite,

1134
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:05.880
but despite her madness, she spat it out repulsed, not

1135
00:58:05.960 --> 00:58:07.920
just by the taste of it, but by what she

1136
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:10.199
had done. In one of the books I read, it

1137
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:12.199
said that she took a bite, but I don't think

1138
00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.039
anyone knows for sure whether she took a bite. Right, Okay,

1139
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:17.760
Catherine was snapped back to the reality of her crime.

1140
00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:20.559
She realized that she had crossed a line so dark

1141
00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:23.880
no excuse or twisted logic could justify the horror and

1142
00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:27.440
depravity of her actions. She swallowed every sleeping pill she

1143
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.280
could find in the house, then crawled back into John's

1144
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:33.599
bloody bed, pulled the covers over her head, and drifted

1145
00:58:33.639 --> 00:58:36.840
off into a heavy drug induced sleep. We'll be back

1146
00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:46.480
after a break. How are you doing? That was rough?

1147
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:49.840
That was really rough. Yeah, it's super disturbing. Yeah, I'm

1148
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:52.039
hanging in there, though. I was kind of expecting it

1149
00:58:52.159 --> 00:58:54.599
when we were talking earlier about the whole slaughterhouse thing

1150
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:57.119
and her knives and all that stuff.

1151
00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:02.679
So yeah, I tried to write it not too disgusting graphic.

1152
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:04.960
But it's just yeah, it's hard to hard not to

1153
00:59:05.000 --> 00:59:06.760
describe it in a way that's not going to be

1154
00:59:06.760 --> 00:59:07.599
disturbing for people.

1155
00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:10.760
Wnette. I initially read about it, I literally got sick

1156
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:11.400
to my stomach.

1157
00:59:11.480 --> 00:59:14.119
Yeah, yeah, I'm not surprised when John failed to show

1158
00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:16.519
up for work the next morning. He was never late.

1159
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:19.760
His co workers, well aware of the volatile situation with

1160
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:23.599
Catherine and his dire prediction the day before, grew alarmed

1161
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:25.559
and went to check on him. But they weren't the

1162
00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:28.800
only ones worried about John. His neighbor Keego, who he

1163
00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:31.719
had had beers with the previous night, noticed that his

1164
00:59:31.760 --> 00:59:34.480
truck was still outside of his house after six am,

1165
00:59:34.679 --> 00:59:37.559
and John was always gone for work by then. Keego

1166
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:40.559
glanced through the windows but couldn't see much, just John's

1167
00:59:40.599 --> 00:59:43.119
work boots by the door, which struck him as odd.

1168
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:45.840
Even more alarming was the blood on the front door.

1169
00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:49.039
Concern growing, he called a few friends to see if

1170
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.400
anyone had heard from John, but no one had. Before long,

1171
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.679
a small crowd had gathered outside the brick house, anxiously

1172
00:59:55.719 --> 00:59:58.920
waiting for the police to arrive. Keego had also reached

1173
00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:01.480
out to John's son, Jonathan, to let him know that

1174
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:05.320
something was wrong. Meanwhile, a friend drove past Catherine's house

1175
01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:08.079
but didn't see her car. They then stopped by her

1176
01:00:08.119 --> 01:00:11.800
twin sister Joy's place, but she hadn't seen Catherine or John.

1177
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:15.159
When the police arrived, Even before they stepped inside, it

1178
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:19.440
was clear that something unspeakable had happened. Blood stained the walkway,

1179
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:23.400
bloody handprints smeared the front door. Four officers pried the

1180
01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:26.440
back door open with a crowbar and stepped inside. What

1181
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:30.599
they found defied comprehension and instantly changed them and their

1182
01:00:30.679 --> 01:00:34.079
understanding of a human's capacity for evil. The scene was

1183
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:38.159
a grotesque display of violence and madness, so disturbing, so

1184
01:00:38.320 --> 01:00:41.880
deeply inhuman, it left scars on everyone who witnessed it.

1185
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:45.320
Some of the officers who responded that day would never recover.

1186
01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:48.440
The stench of the scene stayed with them, embedded in

1187
01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:53.000
their nostrils, unescapable. One officer took their own life. Others

1188
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:55.480
were so shaken they vowed never to eat meat again.

1189
01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:59.480
Catherine's brutality didn't just end one life, it shattered many,

1190
01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:02.159
especially those of her and John's children.

1191
01:01:02.440 --> 01:01:05.079
Here's a clip from two of the responding officers.

1192
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:10.239
There was something hanging blocking my entry into the hallway

1193
01:01:10.239 --> 01:01:12.880
of the house. I thought it looked like a some

1194
01:01:13.000 --> 01:01:16.840
type of blanket or some sort of covering that had

1195
01:01:16.840 --> 01:01:20.639
been placed up on the on the archway, so I

1196
01:01:20.719 --> 01:01:25.119
remember I used my left hand to push it aside,

1197
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:29.000
and immediately I could feel coldness coming on my left arm.

1198
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.159
So I looked down and my left arm was just

1199
01:01:32.159 --> 01:01:36.440
covered in blood. Initially I thought I'd injure myself breaking

1200
01:01:36.440 --> 01:01:38.719
through the back door, so I couldn't understand why my

1201
01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:39.519
arm was bleeding.

1202
01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:43.400
As Graham and Scott tried to locate the missing man,

1203
01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:46.760
they are suddenly faced with the most horrific scene ever

1204
01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:51.440
to be witnessed. I realized then it was a human pelt.

1205
01:01:51.440 --> 01:01:55.440
It was a skin minus the head, a full skin

1206
01:01:55.599 --> 01:01:58.360
just hanging from from the top door froight look past

1207
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:02.559
it saw a torsail on the ground, without a head

1208
01:02:02.559 --> 01:02:07.000
and without a genitalia. And I think my first reaction

1209
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:09.039
in them was to turn around a scotty and tell

1210
01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:10.960
don't look squtty. Of course, that's the worst thing you

1211
01:02:10.960 --> 01:02:11.360
could say.

1212
01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:14.960
I looked through I could look through there from there

1213
01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:17.800
into the lounge room, and I saw what appeared to

1214
01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:22.159
be a human being or what was left. And so

1215
01:02:22.280 --> 01:02:24.880
it was at that point that I realized, you know,

1216
01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:30.079
what had happened for something that I'd never seen before,

1217
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:33.199
I'd never experienced. I had an immediate idea of what

1218
01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:35.800
had gone on. It was at that point that I

1219
01:02:36.639 --> 01:02:37.960
dream a service pistol.

1220
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:45.920
There was blood everywhere, a lone and blood. That's from

1221
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:50.960
the door into the kitchen area. There's a pot on

1222
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:55.119
the stove. I think I might have even said, Scotty,

1223
01:02:55.159 --> 01:02:56.480
I'll give you one guess where there it is.

1224
01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:02.920
I can't even imagine how traumatizing that would be, right.

1225
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:04.440
I mean, like I said, I don't think you ever

1226
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:07.639
recover from seeing so so grotesque.

1227
01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:09.599
No, and even if you're you're a police officer and

1228
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:12.960
you're trained, and you've experienced violence before, that's just a

1229
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:15.440
whole other level that I'm sure you could not get

1230
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:16.519
out of your your head.

1231
01:03:16.880 --> 01:03:19.719
Police found Catherine still sleeping in the bed, snoring away.

1232
01:03:20.000 --> 01:03:22.199
They woke her, but she was still in a drugged

1233
01:03:22.199 --> 01:03:25.360
haze and unable to respond to questions. They carried her

1234
01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:28.440
out of the house, handcuffed her, put her in the backyard,

1235
01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:31.480
and called an ambulance to take her to the psychiatric hospital.

1236
01:03:31.719 --> 01:03:34.960
When she awoke two days later, she feigned memory loss.

1237
01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:38.559
When questioned about John's murder, she admitted she was guilty,

1238
01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:42.119
but her actions were in self defense. The police were

1239
01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:45.280
alarmed when they were informed that Catherine's two younger children,

1240
01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:48.400
Sarah twelve and Eric ten, weren't in school that day.

1241
01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:51.679
After hours of searching, they were found safe with Natasha,

1242
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:56.599
Catherine's second daughter. Catherine was arrested and her adjudication was

1243
01:03:56.800 --> 01:04:00.320
quickly sent in motion. She initially pleaded not guilty gilty,

1244
01:04:00.360 --> 01:04:03.039
claiming she had acted in self defense, a claim that

1245
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:06.840
was ultimately found to have no merit. Judge Barry O'Keefe

1246
01:04:06.880 --> 01:04:10.800
allowed several people from the jury to dismiss themselves due

1247
01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:13.519
to the graphic nature of the case before the trial

1248
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:15.599
was set to start. In October two thousand and one,

1249
01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:19.519
Catherine pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of manslaughter, despite

1250
01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:23.000
the mountain of disturbing evidence against her. The judge refused

1251
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:25.880
to allow the plea and forced her to be psychologically

1252
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:29.320
evaluated by three psychologists to ensure that she was fit

1253
01:04:29.559 --> 01:04:32.280
to stand trial. He was afraid that she would later

1254
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.559
appeal and claim insanity. It was then that she was

1255
01:04:35.599 --> 01:04:40.199
diagnosed with borderline personalities disorder and deemed fit for trial.

1256
01:04:40.599 --> 01:04:44.239
All three psychologists were in agreement with the diagnosis. After

1257
01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:48.000
the evaluation, the judge allowed her guilty plea and sentenced

1258
01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:51.800
her to life in prison without the possibility of being released,

1259
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:55.159
the harshest sentence ever received by a woman in Australia.

1260
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:59.199
The judge ordered that her record be marked never be released,

1261
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:03.280
indicating the severity and exceptional nature of her crime. Catherine

1262
01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:06.440
appealed her sentence, calling it too severe, but the appeal

1263
01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:10.000
was denied. Because she has shown no remorse for Price's murder,

1264
01:05:10.199 --> 01:05:14.199
Kath has no hope of being released without properly exhibiting

1265
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:18.400
genuine remorse, she has no pathway to parole. Catherine, who

1266
01:05:18.440 --> 01:05:23.079
turns seventy this year, is incarcerated at Silverwater Woman's Correctional

1267
01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:26.639
Center formerly known as Molawa Prison, where she is housed

1268
01:05:26.679 --> 01:05:30.079
in a solitary cell where she remains under strict supervision

1269
01:05:30.199 --> 01:05:33.199
and is prohibited from having access to knives.

1270
01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:35.159
I would think that would be a pretty good policy

1271
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:37.440
for all prisoners not to have access to knives.

1272
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:41.000
Well, a lot of prisoners help cook meals, but Catherine

1273
01:05:41.039 --> 01:05:42.840
is a good cook, so I think she would like

1274
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:44.440
to work in the kitchen. But I think this is

1275
01:05:44.440 --> 01:05:47.320
a really solid decision to keep her away from knives.

1276
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:52.239
Silverwater is often referred to as Australia's meanest woman's prison.

1277
01:05:52.599 --> 01:05:56.280
Catherine is a level four prisoner, the most dangerous. However,

1278
01:05:56.360 --> 01:06:00.480
she's described as a model prisoner and has had no ins.

1279
01:06:00.760 --> 01:06:04.280
She works in the prison's earphone factory for about five

1280
01:06:04.320 --> 01:06:06.840
hours a day, where she earns the top wage. Kath

1281
01:06:06.960 --> 01:06:09.920
is often praised for her work ethic. She is respected

1282
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:12.599
and feared by the other inmates, who call her Nana.

1283
01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:15.960
Catherine is seen as an arbitrator by the other inmates,

1284
01:06:16.000 --> 01:06:20.000
solving disputes among them. She has found God during her incarceration.

1285
01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:23.199
Her cell is filled with her arts and crafts projects,

1286
01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:28.320
including sewing, crocheting, pottery, and painting. Her art, in fact,

1287
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:31.159
is displayed in other parts of the prison and even

1288
01:06:31.280 --> 01:06:35.320
sold anonymously. The only regular visitor she receives is her

1289
01:06:35.400 --> 01:06:38.880
twin sister Joy. She has had no contact with any

1290
01:06:38.920 --> 01:06:42.239
other family members that I'm aware of. A former Penthouse

1291
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:46.039
pet model of Victoria Mbrie became close friends with Cath

1292
01:06:46.119 --> 01:06:49.440
while in prison. Shembrie called her a hoarder because your

1293
01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:53.480
cell is full of knitting, knickknacks and art, she said quote,

1294
01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:56.039
she is a gentle soul and not a criminal. To me,

1295
01:06:56.360 --> 01:06:59.079
she is a mediator at Malawa. She is someone who

1296
01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:02.400
sorted out problems before they got serious. She would pull

1297
01:07:02.440 --> 01:07:04.199
the girls in and try to get them to sort

1298
01:07:04.199 --> 01:07:07.480
out whatever it was before it ended up with someone

1299
01:07:07.599 --> 01:07:11.719
going into segro or segregation or getting more time added

1300
01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:14.559
to their sentence. She would stop girls stealing from each

1301
01:07:14.599 --> 01:07:17.480
other and stop girls from fighting. But she never did

1302
01:07:17.480 --> 01:07:20.599
it standing over anyone. She never raised her hands to anyone.

1303
01:07:20.679 --> 01:07:23.880
She was just someone who loved everyone. She organizes a

1304
01:07:23.920 --> 01:07:26.679
big ketch up every Friday. She organizes all the food

1305
01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:28.840
and make sure that everyone in the wing is part

1306
01:07:28.840 --> 01:07:31.679
of it. She includes every single person, even though she

1307
01:07:31.719 --> 01:07:34.400
doesn't really like. She does it to bring everyone together.

1308
01:07:34.840 --> 01:07:37.719
It stops a lot of problems from happening. A prison

1309
01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:40.920
guard called Kathy the prison boss quote. She's the top

1310
01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:43.320
boss of the jail. She takes no crap from anyone

1311
01:07:43.519 --> 01:07:46.079
and absolutely gives it to the guards.

1312
01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:48.559
Well, it certainly doesn't atone for what she did, but

1313
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:51.039
I'm glad to hear she is making the most of

1314
01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:52.039
her prison experience.

1315
01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:54.960
If some people thrive in the prison environment, yes, some

1316
01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:57.159
people are. I think she's safer there. I think everyone

1317
01:07:57.199 --> 01:07:58.679
is safer there. It's where she needs to be.

1318
01:07:58.880 --> 01:07:59.119
Yep.

1319
01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:02.000
Rest in peace to John Price. Our thoughts are with

1320
01:08:02.239 --> 01:08:04.960
his family and Catherine's family, who I think they've all

1321
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:07.960
suffered quite a lot through this tragedy. Yeah, for sure,

1322
01:08:08.119 --> 01:08:11.960
he sounded like a really genuinely good man. He would

1323
01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:14.840
do things like he had his ex wife had a

1324
01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:17.720
good relationship and one time she was going on vacation

1325
01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:21.039
and he put money into her bank account without telling her,

1326
01:08:21.159 --> 01:08:24.359
and he just everyone loved him. Yeah, it's very sad

1327
01:08:24.399 --> 01:08:27.079
that he was taken from this earth too soon. So

1328
01:08:27.159 --> 01:08:30.920
Catherine was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, and we talk

1329
01:08:31.000 --> 01:08:33.560
about it in a lot of these cases. It's marked

1330
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:38.720
by impulsivity, unstable relationships, and fear of abandonment. People with

1331
01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:42.840
borderline personality disorder believe they give everything to relationships and

1332
01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:45.359
blame the other party for not giving them enough back

1333
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:48.199
in return, and are known to have a hair trigger temper.

1334
01:08:48.439 --> 01:08:51.520
Catherine may have inherited the disorder from her mother, who

1335
01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:55.920
exhibited similar traits. Her unstable upbringing, marked by turmoil and

1336
01:08:56.079 --> 01:08:58.600
a lack of a positive adult role model, may have

1337
01:08:58.760 --> 01:09:02.319
intensified the disorder, but after the trauma she experienced at

1338
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:05.680
such a young age, her knife wielding rage fueled reactions

1339
01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:09.600
seemed justified to her and a means of protecting herself.

1340
01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:12.399
So that was the horrible story of Catherine Knight.

1341
01:09:12.560 --> 01:09:14.239
Oh that was a dark one. I'm going to need

1342
01:09:14.239 --> 01:09:16.520
to go out on the internet and find videos of

1343
01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:18.760
cute cats and puppies and babies.

1344
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:22.680
And everyone in the town of Aberdeen, this small town,

1345
01:09:22.800 --> 01:09:26.560
knew Catherine. They knew of her temperament and her rage.

1346
01:09:26.800 --> 01:09:28.239
Why do you think it was tolerated?

1347
01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:30.920
I don't know. I was thinking that early on. I

1348
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:34.199
know she was put in an institution a couple of times,

1349
01:09:34.239 --> 01:09:36.119
several times, but it just seems like there were so

1350
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:39.239
many warning signs. And I don't know. Sometimes you wonder like,

1351
01:09:39.399 --> 01:09:42.159
I don't know if it was back in older time,

1352
01:09:42.279 --> 01:09:45.199
not older times, but in the seventies eighties, right.

1353
01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:48.239
Yeah, Well John's murder occurred in two thousand, so.

1354
01:09:48.439 --> 01:09:50.840
Yeah, long ago, right, But I don't know.

1355
01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:54.720
I think mental health is really hard in our society.

1356
01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:56.640
We don't really know how to properly deal with it.

1357
01:09:56.840 --> 01:09:56.960
Right.

1358
01:09:57.319 --> 01:10:00.199
She was a functioning adult most of the time, and

1359
01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:03.199
you know, she could work a job, and I think

1360
01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:06.520
she could be loving and like her love bombing m

1361
01:10:07.079 --> 01:10:10.199
Like whenever you know, just in any domestic violent situation

1362
01:10:10.439 --> 01:10:13.800
when she injured a partner, right, she would be like, oh,

1363
01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:17.079
it'll never happen again. And I think that's her intention,

1364
01:10:17.239 --> 01:10:21.239
or anyone who is an abuser, that's their intention. But yeah,

1365
01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:23.760
you know, you can't keep that promise. No one ever

1366
01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:24.479
keeps that promise.

1367
01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:24.760
Yeah.

1368
01:10:24.800 --> 01:10:27.159
I wonder, like with the love bombing, if that's because

1369
01:10:27.159 --> 01:10:30.640
of the borderline personality disorder, assuming that is what she had,

1370
01:10:31.039 --> 01:10:33.720
the fear of abandonment, Like if the love bombing was

1371
01:10:34.119 --> 01:10:36.279
because she was so scared of being abandoned, right, she

1372
01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:38.359
would had this temper, she would lash out, but then

1373
01:10:38.399 --> 01:10:41.439
she would try to get the guy back and make

1374
01:10:41.439 --> 01:10:43.279
sure he never went away again. So it was like

1375
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:43.840
the cycle.

1376
01:10:44.159 --> 01:10:47.319
I think she never felt love, you know, even some

1377
01:10:47.399 --> 01:10:49.640
I think some of her partners, like David kell At

1378
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:52.960
her first husband, he did sound like he tried his best.

1379
01:10:54.199 --> 01:10:56.239
And they all drink a lot too. It seems like

1380
01:10:56.279 --> 01:11:00.159
alcohol definitely fueled a lot of this too. Right. There's

1381
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:03.399
also a lot of generational trauma in Catherine's life. Her

1382
01:11:03.439 --> 01:11:06.640
mother Barbara, she had a lot of abuse in her life, right,

1383
01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:10.000
And I just where do you end the generational trauma?

1384
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:11.439
How do you end generational trauma?

1385
01:11:11.560 --> 01:11:14.000
Yeah, I mean I wish I knew the answer to that,

1386
01:11:14.079 --> 01:11:17.239
because that would be great to figure that out. But

1387
01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:19.359
the thing with her is it almost seems like she

1388
01:11:19.520 --> 01:11:22.439
had some traits of like a serial killer, like just

1389
01:11:22.800 --> 01:11:25.880
you know, she enjoyed killing animals and things like that.

1390
01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:28.600
So it almost seems like there was something miswired in

1391
01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:30.600
her brain. So she had kind of the combination of

1392
01:11:31.000 --> 01:11:34.520
generational trauma upbringing that was horrible, but she also just

1393
01:11:34.600 --> 01:11:37.720
had this kind of serial killer wiring in her brain

1394
01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:40.239
or something. And yeah, I don't know. It's not a

1395
01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:43.680
good outcome. I wonder how all of her exes felt

1396
01:11:43.720 --> 01:11:45.800
after this happened. They must have really felt like they

1397
01:11:46.119 --> 01:11:48.920
they dodged. Definitely totally well.

1398
01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:51.600
David Kellett, her first husband with you know, I haven't

1399
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:53.479
seen a picture of I think he must have been

1400
01:11:53.479 --> 01:11:56.319
pretty disfigured from that hot iron hitting his face.

1401
01:11:56.560 --> 01:12:03.319
Yeah, I have.

1402
01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:06.479
A great palette cleanser for everyone, especially our friends in Australia.

1403
01:12:06.720 --> 01:12:09.359
Everyone should go watch Colin from Accounts.

1404
01:12:09.479 --> 01:12:11.720
Yes, we should. We should finish I finish that.

1405
01:12:11.720 --> 01:12:13.479
We have a few episodes left. But we've really been

1406
01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:16.800
enjoying that show. It's such a sweet, funny show. I

1407
01:12:16.880 --> 01:12:18.520
recommend it just about everyone.

1408
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:20.079
I think, Yeah, it's a great show.

1409
01:12:20.399 --> 01:12:23.600
Well, speaking of domestic violence, what is going on with

1410
01:12:23.720 --> 01:12:24.600
the French president?

1411
01:12:25.159 --> 01:12:27.319
Oh, I don't know. That was crazy video.

1412
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:28.439
It was really crazy.

1413
01:12:28.640 --> 01:12:31.000
Yeah, he said they were just like having fun with

1414
01:12:31.039 --> 01:12:34.600
each other, joking around, but that was clearly no. I

1415
01:12:34.600 --> 01:12:35.399
don't buy it at all.

1416
01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:38.039
We've been married for a really long time, but I

1417
01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:41.479
don't think. I mean, I've never slapped you, You've never

1418
01:12:41.560 --> 01:12:42.039
slapped me.

1419
01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:44.840
For anyone who hasn't seen the video, they're on an

1420
01:12:44.840 --> 01:12:48.279
airplane and the airplane doors are opening, and I think

1421
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:51.239
that they didn't realize the doors were open. And his

1422
01:12:51.359 --> 01:12:53.319
wife is sort of off camera a little bit, but

1423
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:55.600
you can just see her like it wasn't really a

1424
01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:56.600
slap slap, but it was.

1425
01:12:57.439 --> 01:12:59.960
She kind of pushed his face aggressive.

1426
01:13:00.319 --> 01:13:02.399
Yeah, it was very aggressive looking. And then he turns

1427
01:13:02.439 --> 01:13:03.680
and he sees that the camera is.

1428
01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:06.920
On either Oh, it was like a snl skit really,

1429
01:13:07.000 --> 01:13:09.479
it just seemed like he was like, oh, hello everyone,

1430
01:13:09.520 --> 01:13:11.159
and he just had this big smile in his face.

1431
01:13:11.239 --> 01:13:13.399
It's very awkward. It made me worried for him, Like,

1432
01:13:13.520 --> 01:13:16.079
if you're doing that to your spouse in front of

1433
01:13:16.119 --> 01:13:19.279
a whole team of people. Yeah, gosh, your private life

1434
01:13:19.279 --> 01:13:21.560
can't be very well all there, No, I'm sure I

1435
01:13:21.560 --> 01:13:24.760
have a really important topic that I would like to address. Okay,

1436
01:13:24.920 --> 01:13:28.359
Catherine Knight was a redhead. Okay, I am a redhead,

1437
01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:31.399
and we kind of she deserves a bad rap. But

1438
01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:34.560
the belief that redheads have worse tempers than others is

1439
01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:38.920
largely a stereotype rather than a scientific fact. While red

1440
01:13:38.920 --> 01:13:43.239
hair is caused by mutation in the mc one R gene,

1441
01:13:43.319 --> 01:13:46.399
which can influence pain sensitivity and the body's response to

1442
01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:50.760
certain stimuli, there are no credible evidence no credible evidence

1443
01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:54.800
linking it to emotional regulation or anger. The idea likely

1444
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:59.079
stems from cultural portrayals in literature and media, where redheads

1445
01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:02.079
are often depicted as fiery or hot tempered. Can you

1446
01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:03.359
get that look off your face right now?

1447
01:14:04.079 --> 01:14:05.760
I just want you to calm down, Tina.

1448
01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:12.600
Additionally, redheads may experience teasing or social exclusion, particularly during childhood,

1449
01:14:13.159 --> 01:14:16.680
which could lead to defensiveness that's sometimes mistaken for a

1450
01:14:16.760 --> 01:14:21.479
short temper. Overall, there is no inherent connection between having

1451
01:14:21.520 --> 01:14:25.720
red hair and being more prone to anger. So you

1452
01:14:25.720 --> 01:14:28.960
you have the great fortune of living with two redheads.

1453
01:14:29.079 --> 01:14:29.399
I know.

1454
01:14:30.279 --> 01:14:32.680
So what is your What do you think about this?

1455
01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:36.359
I think what it is a loaded question. I think

1456
01:14:36.359 --> 01:14:39.920
what you said is absolutely true. There's obviously no connection

1457
01:14:40.039 --> 01:14:43.279
between your hair color and your temperament. That doesn't make

1458
01:14:43.279 --> 01:14:43.840
any sense.

1459
01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:46.720
So yes, I do you think I'm short tempered?

1460
01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:48.800
No, You're not short tempered. You're you could be a

1461
01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:51.279
little fiery sometimes, but I don't think like any more

1462
01:14:51.319 --> 01:14:52.520
than anyone else.

1463
01:14:52.680 --> 01:14:56.319
Yeah, I'm going to give you some unique facts about redheads.

1464
01:14:56.319 --> 01:14:58.840
A couple of these things I actually didn't even know. Okay,

1465
01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:01.479
redheads are rare. Only one to two percent of the

1466
01:15:01.520 --> 01:15:05.720
people globally have natural red hair. The highest concentration is

1467
01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:10.920
in Scotland, followed by Ireland. Not surprising, red hair results

1468
01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:14.199
from mutation in the MC one R gene. Both parents

1469
01:15:14.479 --> 01:15:17.319
must carry this gene for a child to be a redhead,

1470
01:15:17.640 --> 01:15:20.640
even if neither parent has red hair themselves. So I

1471
01:15:20.760 --> 01:15:23.319
come from my parents both had very dark hair and

1472
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:25.720
brown eyes, and I have like my hair is very

1473
01:15:25.880 --> 01:15:28.119
like Some people say, oh, I'm a redhead. No, I'm

1474
01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:31.800
definitely a redhead right yeah, oh halskin blue eyes.

1475
01:15:31.880 --> 01:15:34.640
Yeah, And I don't know if any redheads in my family.

1476
01:15:34.720 --> 01:15:36.399
I can't. I'm trying to think if I have any

1477
01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:38.840
relatives who are redheads, and I don't. I can't think

1478
01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:39.199
of any.

1479
01:15:39.439 --> 01:15:43.680
I think your mom had like red lints in her hair.

1480
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:46.039
Yeah, well, on the rare occasion when I've grown my

1481
01:15:46.079 --> 01:15:47.840
beard out, I have a little bit of red in

1482
01:15:47.840 --> 01:15:48.319
my beard.

1483
01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:52.199
Studies show redheads may be more sensitive to thermal pain

1484
01:15:52.359 --> 01:15:55.439
like hot or cold, but less sensitive to certain types

1485
01:15:55.479 --> 01:16:00.199
of painkillers, especially local anesthetics. They may also require more

1486
01:16:00.239 --> 01:16:05.359
anesthesia during surgery. And this is true, I can attest

1487
01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:09.239
to it. Redheads have a biological advantage in low sunlight climates.

1488
01:16:09.279 --> 01:16:12.079
Their fair skin is more efficient at producing vitamin D

1489
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:15.920
in response to limited UVB exposure. I didn't know that.

1490
01:16:15.960 --> 01:16:16.800
I didn't know that either.

1491
01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:20.239
Instead of turning gray, red hair tends to fade to

1492
01:16:20.319 --> 01:16:23.720
a silvery white or rose gold color over time. It

1493
01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:27.239
holds its pigment longer than other hair colors. That also,

1494
01:16:27.359 --> 01:16:28.279
I can attest to you.

1495
01:16:28.399 --> 01:16:29.640
That's interesting and I'm.

1496
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:31.000
Really really lucky.

1497
01:16:31.439 --> 01:16:35.239
Yeah, I thought the redheads went gray sooner, but I

1498
01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:36.319
didn't realize that we have.

1499
01:16:36.239 --> 01:16:39.279
A little more pigment. Without revealing my age, I really

1500
01:16:39.279 --> 01:16:42.039
don't have many gray or white hair. My hair is

1501
01:16:42.039 --> 01:16:45.960
still pretty vibrant. Both red hair and left handedness are

1502
01:16:46.039 --> 01:16:48.840
recessive traits, and they sometimes show up together, like in

1503
01:16:48.920 --> 01:16:53.359
our daughter, I am right handed. Redheads typically have fewer

1504
01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:55.840
strands of hair on their head, about ninety thousand compared

1505
01:16:55.880 --> 01:16:58.039
to one hundred and ten thousand for brunettes and one

1506
01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:01.520
hundred and forty thousand for blondes, but each strand is thicker,

1507
01:17:01.640 --> 01:17:04.000
giving the appearance of full hair. Every time I get

1508
01:17:04.000 --> 01:17:06.520
a haircut, they're like, you have more hair than anyone

1509
01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:10.000
else I've ever seen. Research suggests that redheads have a

1510
01:17:10.079 --> 01:17:13.720
different sensitivity to temperature changes, meaning they feel hot or

1511
01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:19.159
cold more intensely than others. You're figuring so many things out.

1512
01:17:19.640 --> 01:17:20.479
I get so grumpy.

1513
01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:22.479
I did I learn all this? Like they should have

1514
01:17:22.520 --> 01:17:23.319
given me a manual?

1515
01:17:24.119 --> 01:17:27.000
I did I gave you a book about it. Some

1516
01:17:27.039 --> 01:17:31.520
studies have indicated redheads have a slightly longer bleeding time

1517
01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:35.479
or reduced clotting efficiency. Redheads tend to be more sensitive

1518
01:17:35.479 --> 01:17:40.279
to spicy flavors. Redheads may metabolize alcohol more quickly than

1519
01:17:40.359 --> 01:17:43.800
people with other hair colors. In ancient Egypt, some red

1520
01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:48.199
haired individuals were considered sacred or even sacrificed in rituals.

1521
01:17:48.199 --> 01:17:49.159
Oh that's not good.

1522
01:17:49.239 --> 01:17:53.039
This is a negative one. Redheads are more likely, maybe

1523
01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:57.239
more likely to develop Parkinson's disease. Some studies suggest that

1524
01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:00.359
the mc one R gene may slow the visible signs

1525
01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:04.199
of aging, particularly in skin, due to its impact on

1526
01:18:04.319 --> 01:18:06.800
DNA repair and milanin production.

1527
01:18:07.079 --> 01:18:08.439
Well, that is certainly true of you.

1528
01:18:08.920 --> 01:18:12.600
So I don't know. I think I look okay, like amazing,

1529
01:18:12.640 --> 01:18:13.880
but I think I find.

1530
01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:14.720
I was being sincere.

1531
01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:17.600
I'm only about so I'm a unicorn. I am a

1532
01:18:17.720 --> 01:18:21.039
unicorn among redheads, only aboutzero point one seven percent of

1533
01:18:21.079 --> 01:18:24.000
the global population has both red hair and blue eyes.

1534
01:18:24.199 --> 01:18:28.119
Oh wow, you go, giving you way more information than

1535
01:18:28.159 --> 01:18:29.279
you need about redheads.

1536
01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:31.239
Our daughter is even more of a unicorn, having the

1537
01:18:31.319 --> 01:18:34.319
left handed thing and the red hair and the blue eyes.

1538
01:18:34.600 --> 01:18:36.319
There is are kind of bluish green. You might are

1539
01:18:36.399 --> 01:18:38.600
kind of a little bluish green too. But yeah, so

1540
01:18:38.880 --> 01:18:42.039
there you go. All you need to know about red a redhead.

1541
01:18:42.039 --> 01:18:44.880
If you see a redhead today, be nice to them. Yes,

1542
01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:47.920
And if a redhead seas another head redhead, we kind

1543
01:18:47.920 --> 01:18:49.880
of have a little like you give each other like

1544
01:18:49.920 --> 01:18:52.319
a little nod or a little a little secret smile

1545
01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:53.560
because it is a secret club.

1546
01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:54.239
Yeah you should.

1547
01:18:54.600 --> 01:18:57.439
And if we see someone that is not a natural redhead,

1548
01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:02.920
you know, we know instantly because you're probably less awkward

1549
01:19:03.159 --> 01:19:06.319
and you know, you just have better coloring than we do.

1550
01:19:06.520 --> 01:19:07.520
Yeah, yeah, so.

1551
01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:09.680
There you go. Well, thank you to our friends in

1552
01:19:09.720 --> 01:19:12.479
Australia who recommended this case to us. I hope we

1553
01:19:12.520 --> 01:19:15.560
did it justice. We are so grateful that you're all here.

1554
01:19:15.800 --> 01:19:19.000
Every listen, follow, review, and share helps us keep the

1555
01:19:19.039 --> 01:19:22.159
show going and growing and reminds us how lucky we

1556
01:19:22.199 --> 01:19:24.439
are to have such a thoughtful community. If you'd like

1557
01:19:24.520 --> 01:19:26.720
to reach out or on social media, or you can

1558
01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:29.600
email us at Lovemorykill at gmail dot com. If you

1559
01:19:29.600 --> 01:19:33.880
want even more content, head topatreon dot com slash love Marykill.

1560
01:19:34.199 --> 01:19:36.439
For just five dollars a month, you'll get early ad

1561
01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:39.640
free episodes and a monthly bonus episode. Our way of

1562
01:19:39.680 --> 01:19:41.880
saying thank you until next time.

1563
01:19:42.159 --> 01:20:02.319
Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

1564
01:20:02.039 --> 01:20:19.239
The leading to the company with the