Kelley and Thomas Clayton

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've learned and over twenty years of marriage, it's. That some days you'll feel like killing. Your wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to Love Mary Kill. Hey Rich, Hey Tina, how are you? I am good? How are you doing? I'm good? Are your arms tired? Yeah? Thank you? So just flew in last night. I love that joke. It's good. It's still adults still hold up. Yeah. Hey, if you don't want to listen to the next five minutes of snacks and banter, because some people don't, we have a just the Facts edition of Love Mary Kill, just in case you weren't aware. Just search for Love Mary Kill, Just the Facts wherever you listen, and you get right to the case. No opening banner, no closing banner.

0:59 Some really small person must have come up with that idea of just the Facts Love Mary Kill. I can only imagine. I just wanted to remind everyone really quick that Love Mary Kill. Merchandise from Bonfire is on sale until December twenty second. You can find the link in our show notes. I don't think the items will get here. It definitely won't get here before Christmas. I think the ship date is around January first. Fifty percent of all proceeds from that sale will go to Saint Jude's. So as a Michigan fan, it's been a crazy week, and I wonder if you just want to talk about it for a minute, because I've had a few people reach out asking how Rich is doing. Just n Tina, I was Rich handelingdo.

1:43 I am a died in the whole maze and blue University of Michigan fan, and you actually broke the news to me. I was in Las Vegas at for work and you texted me that the Michigan football head coach got fired, Sharon Moore, And all this stuff has come out since then, Like it was shocked, shocking appearance. Because we're so local, we're so close to it, right, you know, he was in Selene, and you know, Selene's just a couple of times over, and yeah, knew exactly where he was and where he was arrested, and yeah, at. First I was like, I don't know why he was fired. He's been doing pretty well. But it turns out all this scandalous stuff, like he was having a relationship with staffer. That worked for very young staffer, she got.

2:23 Pregnant, all this stuff, and then after he got fired, he went to her apartment and harassed her and threatened her and he got arrested. Just yeah, insanity, A huge disappointment. Yeah, and embarrassing. It's embarrassing for them, like a lot of. People are still talking about the Jim Harbaugh scandal from was it last year or the year before that? Was a little before that, But yeah, it's just not good for the mission. Yeah, for sure. I do have a snack for you today. When you were in Las Vegas, one of my friends came over and we made a bunch of Christmas cookies to get on and she suggested that we make these brown butter pecan pie bars from Sally's latest cookbook.

3:07 Okay, that sounds good. Would you like to try that? I would love to. What did you think of the pecan pie bars? I'm going to say they were pretty good. Oh really, it's just not mine. You're not a nut guy. I'm not. I like the brown butter flavor, but something about the nuts. I'm just not a nut in dessert guy in general. Although I love peanut butter, which is kind of like a nut. But Yeah, you're such a complicated person. I am. It's very difficult. I think they're great, and I think if you like pecan pie you would love it. Yes, you would definitely love it. If you like pecan pie. I'm going to give it a six out of ten. Oof, it's a little low. I would give them an eight and a half out of ten. I think most people would really enjoy these.

3:53 You're probably right. But I want to give my friend Francia shout out. She is a very talented artist. She makes some beautiful, unique jewelry pieces. You can find her on Peach Mountain Designs, on Etsy or Instagram. She's the best. Before I tell you the case of Kelly and Thomas Clayton, we wanted to talk about what we're going to do at Love Mary Kill for the next couple of weeks over the Christmas holiday. We both could use a breather and we want to enjoy the holiday with her family. But we don't want to leave you without any new episodes. So we thought it might be fun to go back and revisit some of our very early episodes. The ones that make us cringe the hardest. Exactly when we first started, we had no idea what we were doing, we still don't, so be sure to join us for these special edition rewind episodes.

4:40 Monday nights were poker nights for Thomas Clayton. He and his friends gathered each week at Linda and Greg Miller's home, and September twenty eighth, twenty fifteen was no different. Before heading out, he talked in his two young children, Charlie and Cullen, kissed his wife of nine years goodbye, and drove off for the game. Jomy returned home around twelve thirty a m. He immediately noticed the garage door was open, even though he was certain that he had closed it before leaving. The door leading from the garage into the house was open as well, adding to a growing sense that something wasn't right. Inside the house was unusually still.

5:20 As Thomas walked into the kitchen, he found Kelly, thirty five, lying face down in a pool of her own blood, unresponsive and not breathing. He rushed to her side and checked for a pulse. Nothing. Panic surged through him as he tore up the stairs two at a time to check on his children. At the top of the landing, he saw the chaos that had ripped through the house. A jagged, gaping hole had been punched into the drywall. Shattered pictures lay scattered across the floor, and a trail of blood streaked across the hardwood and into the carpet leading toward the primary bedroom. A violent struggle had clearly unfolded, but the children were safe, huddled together in Cullen's room.

6:06 Relieved yet frantic, Tom raced back downstairs and dialed nine one one. Help me my wife, He said, for you, look at you stand a line with me. How long has she been down? I don't know. I don't know why. You need to calm down so I can help you. She beyond CPR, Yes, sir, Can you tell me why you think she's beyond CPR? Docks be. Thomas gathered the children and rushed them to the neighbor's house, pounding on the door until he woke them. He left the kids with the wife, and he and the husband returned to his home to wait for the police. When the police arrived, they were shocked by the gruesome scene in the Clayton's kitchen.

6:50 Kelly's face was bludgeoned beyond recognition. Thomas had an airtight alibi police were left baffled. Who would brutally attack this beautiful, full devoted mother of two. Do you think it's odd to have a Monday night poker game? Not really. I think you could play poker any night and it's fun. But I would guess some guys do it on Monday night football nights, like play poker, have the football game on. Yeah. Yeah, he said that they met at seven o'clock, so that makes sense. I know the clip was brief, but you have any opinions about the nine to one one call. The only thing that really struck me was the very beginning of the call, when he said help me, help me my wife's dad. It just seemed it sounded very I don't know, it didn't. It didn't sound very emotional.

7:33 It just sounded like, help me helping my wife's like he had that planned that he was going to say it. And then when he said, well I just got home, yeah, already kind of laying I couldn't have been here. Yeah. But at the same time, I hate to read too much into a nine one one call because, as we always say, absolutely everyone's definitely to do it. Yeah. Kelly Elizabeth Stage was born on August first, nineteen eighty to Elizabeth and Howard's stage in Elmira, New York. Her father was the longtime FI chief, and Kelly grew up under the protective eye of the entire department. The youngest of three, she had an older brother, Leonard, and an older sister, Kimberly, who was ten years for a senior and fiercely protective of her. With her energetic spirit and bright, magnetic smile, Kelly drew people in wherever she went and made friends with ease. In high school, Kelly excelled both academically and athletically. She was an honor student, a cheerleader, and a softball player. But music was her passion. She loved to sing, dance, and attend country music concerts. She majored in education at the State University of New York at Oneonta. After graduating and starting her teaching career, she quickly realized it wasn't quite the right fit for her.

8:48 Ready for a change and eager to see more than upstate New York, where she'd lived her entire life, Kelly decided to take a leap and moved to Las Vegas. Young, beautiful and energetic, Kelly loved living in the vibrant, fast paced city. It was a good match for her abuliant personality. She got a job as a cocktail waitress, not her dream job, but she was having fun and meeting lots of new people. But in December two thousand and three, while visiting her family in Elmira, a simple night out at a hometown hockey game would change Kelly's life forever. Almira, New York, is a small city in Upstate New York, tucked into the Southern Tier near the Pennsylvania border. Once a thriving industrial hub, Almera's economy was built on factories that produced everything from fire hydrants and precision machinery to glass bottles and textiles. Companies like Remington Rand, General Electric, American Bridge, and Westinghouse were once major employers, drawing thousands of workers to the area before closing or relocating in the late twentieth century. The departure left a deep economic imprint that the city still feels today.

10:00 Now. Not all of Elmira's factories have disappeared. Kennedy Vlve hardened and the glass plant in nearby Elmira Heights continue to operate, serving as steady, smaller anchors of the local economy. What remains is a city shaped by both growth and loss, a mixture of revitalized blocks and aging industrial corridors, Victorian homes, and shuttered factories. With a population just under thirty thousand, Elmira has the close knit feel of a community where people know one another and violent crime is rare enough to unsettle the entire town when it happens. The only thing I know about Elmira is from the movie we're going to watch within the next couple of weeks.

10:41 It's a wonderful life. That's where the bank examiners from Elmira. Oh, okay, a little fact for you. You could probably quote that entire movie. I could. Thomas Clayton was born in Binghampton, New York, in March nineteen seventy eight, to Phyllis and Scott Clayton. From a young age, his life life revolved around hockey. After he played four years of college hockey at Niagara University from nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and two, he moved into the professional ranks, well one step or maybe two steps below that. After playing at Niagara University, he moved an hour west to play with the minor League team, the Elmira Jackals, where he became a local favorite with the fans. The franchise ultimately folded in twenty seventeen, but his years with the team were some of the best years of his life. Thomas was known as the team's enforcer, the guy who stepped in when things got rough, the one who threw the hits, dropped his gloves, shoved the opposing team into the boards, and made sure no one took liberties with his teammates. His job wasn't to score goals, but to protect using hard hits or even a fight to keep opponents in line. Do you know anything about this position? Oh?

11:56 Absolutely, I mean it's not an official position, but every team needs an in four. Yeah. It's kind of how things, you know, keep on the up and up in hockey, Like if you do something shape, really you're going to get punched by the enforcer. Not so much anymore. But that leads to my next point. Today, hockey rules have changed to make play safer and the enforcer role has been largely phased out. Yeah, I'm not sure if that's true. I think there is still a bit of that mental mild. Yeah, I just I haven't watched hockey as much in the past few years, but I think it's still part of the game. And does the enforcer tend to be a fan favorite a. Lot of times? Yeah, people love a good enforcer. Yeah. We've been to a few hockey games, and we actually did go to some minor league hockey games. Yeah, but I was always shocked at how violent the games were and how excited the crowd gets if blood is drawn.

12:46 Yeah, definitely. It's it's sort of like part of the game, and some people really don't like that there's fighting hockey, but it really has been part of the game since it began, and it is a way of just keeping people in line. Is it like wrestling at all, where it's a little fake Not really? Okay, So it's really based on real testosterone and real anger. Yeah, I should say it's not necessarily based on anger. Sometimes it's strategic, but they are really fighting. It's not like play fighting or. Okay, that's what I was wondering. Thomas tried out twice for a spot with the Binghamton Senators, the AHL affiliate of the Ottawa Senators, and even scored a few goals in a practice session against Hall of fame goalie Dominic Hashik, who was rehabbing with the team at the time.

13:31 It's my all time favorite goalie. Really, but despite glimpses of his raw talent, he never made it to the big league. In two thousand and six, Clayton was traded to the Quad City Mallards, where he played a single season before retiring due to an injury. Ending his career was a blow. He'd been an athlete and a standout one for as long as he could remember. When that identity was suddenly gone, he struggled to figure out who he was without the game. Clayton's five seasons with the Jackals from two thousand and one to two thousand and six gave him a certain visibility in the community, something that made the events that followed all the more shocking. Even after he stopped playing hockey, Tom was a local celebrity.

14:14 He never had to pay for a drink at the bar. He was charismatic, good looking and athletic, confident bordering on cocky, and he knew women noticed him. In two thousand and three, Thomas had a brush with the law. He and a teammate, Brad Wingfield, were charged with public lewdness and harassment after the two were seen dancing nearly naked on a bar top in Elmira when four cadet police officers approached them. The situation escalated into a fight outside a bar on Waters Street. Wingfield faced an additional felony assault charge. Ultimately, both men pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of disorderly conduct.

14:54 Well among us has not danced nearly naked on a bar top in Elmira. I have danced on a bartop, but not nearly naked. Later, after retiring from hockey, Clayton reflected on the transition in an interview with a local newspaper, quote, I got hurt, I got married. It was a different phase in my life. The Miners is not all the glory like the NHL. You're riding on buses many hours and many days. At that point in my life, I had to make a decision. Did I bounce around in the miners or start a family and focus on other things. I've never thought before about being a minor league player whatever sport you're playing in, but you really have to have a huge love of the game. Yeah, it's really not fun. I've read a lot about especially baseball minor league players. It's grueling. You make no money and you're hoping for this shot at the big leagues, and the vast majority of people never get there.

15:47 Playing in the miners wasn't the windfall that playing in the NHL was, causing Tom to always be looking for a lucrative side hustle or an investment that would set him up financially. He eventually owned and operated a Pall Davis Emergency Services franchise, a company specializing in emergency home restoration for water, fire, mold, and storm damage. The business thrived, and Thomas came to see that he had a real talent for building and running a company, a success he attributed to both his charm and his work ethic. Later, he also took on a managerial role at a friend's restoration business until he later opened a Serve Pro franchise, But the identity crisis after retiring from hockey likely contributed to his decision to relocate to Charlotte, North Carolina in search of a new start. There, Thomas began a shuttle service for people who had been overserved. After he sold it, he began a real estate business with another retired Jackals player James Sheehan. After a couple of years in Charlotte, he and Kelly moved back to upstate New York to be close to family. But I've gotten ahead of myself.

16:57 Let's backtrack. Story between Kelly Stage and Thomas Clayton is a little like a Hallmark movie. Kelly came home in December two thousand and three from Las Vegas for a visit. She went to a Jackals game with her mom and sister. They couldn't help but notice the handsome troublemaker on the ice, number eighteen. When Kelly and Thomas Clayton locked eyes during the game, she felt goosebumps erupt excited that he had noticed her. Kelly and her best friend, Andy Spirok later met up at a bar for drinks and dancing. Kelly's jaw hit the floor when she saw the heart throb of the Jackals walk in. She was too shy to approach him, but Andy didn't have anything to lose. She walked up to Thomas and asked if he had a girlfriend.

17:42 He said, who's asking the blonde? She's incredible. They fell in love quickly. Kelly even moved back to New York to be closer to him. They were married about two years later. They were a beautiful couple, both the life of the party. There were no indications, at least on the surface, that their marriage was unhappy or unraveling. Their daughter, Charlie, was born in May two thousand and eight, and their son cullin four years later. Kelly was mostly a stay at home mom, but worked one or two nights a week as a bartender at the Woodhouse Stadium grill for extra spending money. Friends described the Claytons as having a solid, happy marriage. Tom had a big personality, loud, energetic, sometimes inappropriate, the kind of guy who loved being the center of attention at times. He could be a little too friendly with other women, openly flirting in front of Kelly, but she brushed it off, insisting it was harmless. He just likes to have fun, she would say, defending him whenever friends or family raised an eyebrow.

18:46 He was a bit of a and not even a bit of a cat. He was sleeping with a lot of women outside of his marriage. I don't think Kelly was aware of that. From the outside. Life seemed to be falling perfectly into place for the young couple. Tom's restoration business was thriving, giving them financial stability. They bought a house on five wooded acres they loved, and they had two beautiful children. They adored, a close knit circle of friends and a strong presence in their community. To many, the Claytons looked like a family on the rise, busy, successful, and deeply woven into their small town life. But beneath that polished exterior, there were cracks no one fully recognized until it was too late.

19:28 Kelly was just stunning, and the children were just two of the cutest kids you've ever seen. Yeah. On Monday, September twenty eighth, twenty fifteen, at twelve thirty nine am, the Almira, New York Police received a nine to one one call from Thomas Clayton, who called when he returned home after his weekly poker game. When officers arrived at twelve forty eight, they found thirty five year old mother of two, Kelly, lying face down with catastrophic injuries to her face, already deceased. Here's a clip from the officer's bodycam footage. Hida, what's going on, I'm in the neighbor. Okay came and got me.

20:10 Out of bed. Anybody else in the house. Tom, just you Okay, where's she at? Ooh, okay. I got a female mid thirties, early forties. Her face is completely beaten in her there's blood all over. She's been dragged. Oh boy, that is it is hard scene. Yeah, you can just hear the officer's reaction the moment he sees her. Yeah. Tom was overwrought with emotion. He told police that his daughter said there was a robber in the house. Charlie and Cullin just seven and four, were both home that night.

20:54 Charlie had woken up during the struggle with the intruder, witnessing the entire attack, but thankfully and slept through the ordeal. Investigators immediately searched the Clayton's five acre wooded property for evidence. Two divers were brought in to sweep the pond on the grounds, meticulously combing the water for anything that might shed light on what had happened to Kelly. After he called nine to one one, Tom called Kelly's sister Kim and told her she needed to come to the house that Kelly was dead. Kim picked up her mom, Liz, and drove over in a panic, and when she arrived at a chaotic, frenzied scene. She screamed to the police officers at the scene, where's my sister? When she learned her sister was gone, her cries of anguish tore through the night. Soon Andy, Kelly's best friend, was there too, equally shocked and anguished.

21:48 It was just a truly heartbreaking scene. And knowing that little Charlie had witnessed the entire thing. Yeah, that's just awful to imagine. I can't even imagine. We're kid. We'll be back after a break. Twenty police vehicles lit up the night of the Clayton's home on Gnan Road as the investigation began. What stood out immediately to investigators was the lack of forest entry. The garage door leading into the laundry room and kitchen was wide open. Nothing in the house had been taken, and aside from the blood trail and signs of a struggle, nothing else was out of place. It didn't look like a robbery gone wrong. The level of violence suggested something far more personal. Investigators couldn't immediately determine what the murder weapon had been, but the severity of Kelly's wounds pointed to a blunt force object, while scent dogs searched the property for the murder weapon. Police pursued over seventy leads, but Tom's alibi was rock solid. He'd been at the poke game at his friend Greg Miller's house all night.

23:03 He left at twelve fifteen AM, and there was absolutely no evidence tying him to the crime. Do we know what the time of death? Did they have an estimate of when she was killed? I think they sat around midnight? Okay, you know the blood hadn't cowaguly. Because there's no chance that she died before he left for the poker game. No, but some of Tom's behaviors were suspicious. In late twenty fourteen, he doubled Kelly's life insurance policy to one million dollars, but he had also increased his own to two million dollars, and on the night Kelly was killed, while at the Miller's house, Tom asked Linda to borrow her cell phone at ten fifty three pm, claiming he'd left his own in his truck, But another player later told police he'd seen Tom with his phone all night, a detail then immediately cast out on Tom's explanation.

23:56 That sound very suspicious. The next morning, after learning of Kelly's murder, Linda told her husband about the strange request. Greg checked her call log and found no outgoing calls, but Linda insisted that she had heard Tom speaking to someone. It appeared the call had been deleted, but why. Concerned, Greg contacted Stu Ben County District Attorney Brooks Baker, an acquaintance, to report the odd behavior. Police quickly interviewed the couple, and although the call no longer appeared on Linda's phone, investigators were able to retrieve the record from the carrier's billing information. That single call would become a key piece of evidence.

24:40 Then there was the nine one one call. While on the phone with the dispatcher, Tom was nearly hysterical, but after he thought he'd hung up, he could be heard speaking to Charlie in a normal voice, asking if she'd seen a robber attacking mommy, almost as if he was planting an idea in her head. It's devastating to think about what seven year old Charlie had witnessed, but police needed to interview her. Charlie spoke bravely and confidently about what she'd witnessed. She said that there was a robber in the house that was hitting her mom with a pipe, and that there was blood everywhere. What did the robber look like, the interviewer asked. Charlie responded, he looked like my dad. The man was wearing jeans, a long sleeved t shirt, and a mask like the one her daddy wore, she said. When asked how she knew the attacker was a man, she said his eyes were like my daddy's.

25:36 She said the man was the same size as her daddy and looked like him. She told the interviewer that the attacker didn't say a word. He probably didn't say anything because what if he was my daddy, we would recognize his voice. But it couldn't be daddy because then who would take care of us? Oh? I know. Charlie went on to say that she saw her mom suffering. After the man left through the garage, Charlie tapped her mom with a hockey stick and then hugged her leg. Charlie later told investigators that during the attack, her mother screamed run, Charlie, run, but instead of fleeing, she followed her mother and witnessed her brutal assault. When the attacker left, she ran to her brother's room to protect him. At the end of the interview, Charlie asked the sheriff, but where is my mom at I watched an episode of twenty twenty where they played the interview, and I didn't want to because it just felt kind of nicky, But it was so devastating. She was so brave though. She spoke so clearly and confidently, and obviously she hadn't really processed what she had gone through yet, and she didn't realize that her mom wasn't coming back.

26:49 Yeah, what at that age? It's really Yeah, it's a lot to ask to understand that. Kelly's final moments were an act of bravery and protection. When the attacker came for her in the middle of the night, she didn't retreat toward her children's room. She moved the other way into the kitchen, pulling the danger with her. She fought hard, outmatched but refusing to give in, doing everything she could to keep violence away from her kids. Police also interviewed Kelly's sixteen year old niece, Mollie, who worked part time at Servepro with Thomas. He told Molly that he'd had several affairs and wasn't happy in his marriage. He was afraid if he'd divorce Kelly that she'd take everything he had. When police asked Molly who she thought could have killed her aunt, she gave them the name Michael Beard, a recently fired employee who tells their sixteen year old niece that, oh, I've had lots of affairs.

27:44 And that is not good behavior. I mean, it's completely inappropriate, and poor Mollie probably she hadn't no idea what to do with that information. Kelly's death shocked her friend's family and community. The day after her death, the front page of the Ithaca Journal read the whole town is just sad slain Stuben County woman known for her smile and infectious laugh. Kelly's college roommate said quote, the most important thing to not forget is to mention her laugh. You could hear her a mile away, and it was contagious. She did live life with joysest, excitement, and adventure. I'm going to read Kelly's obituary because it's very touching, and I think it does such a great job of describing who she was. Kelly Elizabeth Stage Clayton, thirty five of Elmira, New York, died unexpectedly on Tuesday, September twenty ninth, twenty fifteen. Kelly was born in Elmira, New York, to Howard and Elizabeth Stage. She graduated from Elmira Free Academy and the State University of New York.

28:49 Moved to Las Vegas and worked at the Imperial Palace as a cocktail waitress. Kelly returned to Elmira in two thousand and four to be closer to family who she loved and adored, and she had been working at the wood House Stadium Grill in Corning for the past several years. Kelly was a gymnast, enjoying anything involving fashion, and for the past several years attended the Country Music Festival in Nashville, Tennessee with several of her close friends, a trip she truly enjoyed. Kelly's happy place was at the beach with her family in Ocean City, New Jersey. Any One who came in contact with Kelly always knew where she stood. She was never one to mince words or hold back her thoughts. She was also the first one to offer kind and encouraging words and would give honest speed back and advice. While Kelly was the light of our lives.

29:37 Her children were the light of hers. She graced us all with her big smile and infectious laughter, and she will be dearly missed. Kelly was predeceased by her father, Howard Stage, the former West Almira fire chief, and her maternal and paternal grandparents. Kelly is survived by her husband of nine years, Thomas Clayton, and her two beautiful children, Charlie, Emma and Crash just apparently what she must have called Cullen. She has also survived by her mother Elizabeth, her sister Kimberly, her brother Leonard. Kelly is also survived by her lifelong best friend Andrea Sparrock. Kelly's obituary closed with a quote from a song by Kip Moore. Life is a long and winding ride. Better have the right one by your side.

30:22 I thought that was an interesting quote to include in her obituary, and I don't know if it might have been pointing to Thomas a little bit. Yeah, that's interesting, family might have been doubting him at this point. I also thought it was really nice that they mentioned her best friend. Yeah soon, purple ribbons spring up all over the community, symbols of domestic violence awareness and a tribute to Kelly's memory. I'm not feeling one hundred percent today and I think it's making me a little more emotional even than usual. This is I mean, having the kids involved to me, that always makes it more emotional as well. Right, and Kelly was clearly like just this beautiful. A lovely, lovely person. When police spoke with Thomas the day after Kelly's death, several things about his behavior struck them as odd. He immediately suggested they checked the GPS in his work truck, claiming it would prove he wasn't home when Kelly was killed, an oddly specific detail to volunteer so quickly. He had no explanation for why Charlie said the attacker looked like him. He repeatedly insisted he had nothing to do with the murder, yet showed almost no emotion as he talked about his wife's violent death.

31:33 At the end of the interview, Thomas thirty seven, was arrested and charged with second degree murder. The second degree murder might seem inappropriate in this case, but in New York the charge of first degree murder is reserved for certain crimes, such as killing a judge, killing a witness to prevent testimony killing during the commission of certain felonies terrorism or serial murder, so they reserved that first degree. Really interesting. It's so weird how different states have different definitions. I wish it wasn't like that. He pleaded not guilty at his arraignment, and although the judge initially denied bail, he was released a week later on a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars cash bond. The court was packed with Kelly's family and friends, many wearing purple t shirts reading Justice for Kelly. Thomas was re arrested shortly afterward for contacting Kelly's sister in violation of a court order.

32:30 His bail was increased to five hundred thousand dollars, which he again posted, and he was released a second time. Set up before. And I'll say it again, I don't think that you should get bail if you've been accused of murder in Okay. Now I'm in a waffle. In most cases, yeah, I. Think it depends on circumstances, but in general, I agree with you. What stunned many was how quickly police arrested him. The arrest rested almost entirely on Charlie's initial statement, the frightened words of a seven year old who had witnessed something no child should ever see. There was no physical evidence tying Thomas to the scene, he had what appeared to be a solid alibi, and investigators had yet to identify a clear motive. To some, it seemed the police acted too fast, leaning heavily on the fragmented memory of a traumatized child rather than establishing strong probable cause. The decision to arrest him so swiftly would become one of the early controversial turning points in the case. It does seem just based on what I know so far, it does seem kind of premature. Usually they like to wait, and you know you've got time. Just get your ducks in a row, get the evidence, and then make the arrest.

33:45 As far as I can tell, he was only interviewed once for a few hours and then he was arrested. Yeah, based largely on what I mean, almost entirely on what Charlie said. Yeah, it does seem pretty quick. But she was a very coning little witness. Yeah. Once released from jail, Thomas cleaned and repaired the house, his restoration skills serving him well. And he continued living there while awaiting trial, but you wouldn't know he'd just lost his wife. Instead of grieving, he was out dating a variety of women, hitting bars and gambling in Atlantic City, behaving less like a widower and more like a frat boy on a weekend bender.

34:26 I mean, if you know Thomas, this isn't shocking. Mm hmm. But what was he telling these women? Because he was somewhat of a public figure and his picture was all over the newspapers. Yeah, I just questioned, why would you hook up with this guy? Yeah? I can't imagine. Thomas tried to repair his tarnished reputation, reaching out to friends and family, assuring them he had nothing to do with Kelly's murder. He loved his wife and was planning a second honeymoon, he insisted, but most people chose to keep their distance. Charlie and Cullen seven and three were taken into custody by Child Protective Services, but soon placed with their aunt, Kim.

35:06 I'm not sure if Thomas saw them during this time. What. I don't think he did. Well. It sounds like he was busy with other things. Sadly, that's that is the truth. After stu Ben County District Attorney Brooks Baker and his team stepped aside. He had a personal connection to Kelly's family, which created a conflict of interest for him and his staff. Chemung County District Attorney Whedon Wetmore was brought in as a special prosecutor. I bet primary school was not easy for Wheedwtmore. That is quite a name. He agreed to take the case even though he knew it would be a challenge. There was no obvious smoking gun linking Thomas Clayton to the crime. His alibi was strong. After Kelly's niece Molly mentioned Michael Beard, a disgruntled employee Tom had recently fired, he quickly emerged as a far more plausible suspect. Michael Beard, forty, had been a long time trusted employee, first at Paul Davis Restoration and later at Serve Pro. Tom often hired him to do odd jobs around his own home, and Beard lived in a house with his wife and child that Tom owned. That relationship soured when Beard was fired on September seventeenth, eleven days before Kelly's murder, for stealing from clients and drinking.

36:24 On the job, which he vehemently denied. Michael lived paycheck to paycheck supporting his children in multiple states. After he lost his job, Beard fell behind on rent and Thomas started the eviction process. When investigators began to zero in on him, Beard insisted he had been home all night with his wife, but when his wife was interviewed separately, she admitted that he had slipped out around eleven o'clock after receiving a phone call and was gone for about two hours. Beard agreed to a polygraph. He failed. It is around the time that Thomas allegedly borrowed a phone and made a phone call from the poker game.

37:06 Right, exactly, You're very perceptive. Under pressure in the interrogation room, Beard finally broke. The detective could sense he was nearing a confession when he could hear Beard's stomach making gurgling noises in trouble. Right, because it wasn't no, it wasn't hunger noises, it was upset stomach. I'm, you know, emotionally overwrought. The detective actually said, and I don't know if what was the dateliner of the twenty twenty I watched that that happens a lot. Oh really, and it's kind of a sign in his opinion that a confession might be coming. Yeah. Interesting. He confessed to killing Kelly for ten thousand dollars, money he said was promised by Thomas.

37:48 Clayton and never paid. He also claimed he was supposed to set the house on fire afterward. According to him, Tom assured him that children wouldn't be on that night. They would be with their aunt Kim, but when he saw them inside, he said he couldn't go through with torching the house. Wow, I know how upset are you right now with Thomas that is. I can't even believe that, Like he would hire this guy and say burn the house down, knowing his kids were there in the house. Yeah. And like we said, Michael Beard had been in their home a lot, he knew the children, he knew Kim. Yeah. The fact that he would, you know, agree to do that to Kim.

38:32 Is shocked right now, that that is really shocking. Well, something I need to mention too. Like Charlie knew him too, because he said Michael Beard said that sometimes Kim would be like, Hey, I need to run out and do this quick, errand will you stay with the kids. So Charlie knew him and remember Charlie said, Oh, it looked like my dad, and I should mention that Michael Beard is a black man. So I don't know if you know, her memories were just confused. But he was wearing a mask supposedly too. Oh, I never thought of that. I was assuming it was a mask that they used at work, like when they were utro chemists and. Things like that. But actually, as I think of it more, really goalies are the only players in hockey that wear like that full mask that covers your face. So Thomas wouldn't normally have worn a mask like that. But at the same time, I don't want to get too far ahead of myself and assume that this Michael Beard guy is telling the truth, because he could be lying as well.

39:29 Beard said that as early as April Thomas confided in him that he was thinking of getting rid of his wife. The murder weapon was a wooden mall the yellow handle of a sledgehammer. Michael had thrown it out his car window into a weed choked ditch as he drove away from the Clayton's house. Police later recovered it. He had thrown his bloody clothes and the key Thomas had given him into a swampy area in Elmira Heights, which police were also able to recover. The clothing tested positive for these blood. He was arrested on October second, twenty fifteen. This murder weapon is really surprising to me. It sounds like he must not have come to the house prepared and he just found something in the garage, like this broken handle of a sledgehammer. Yeah, that is really and it's just horrific to think about how hard he must have been hitting Kelly, because the handle of a sledgehammer isn't that heavy and it was.

40:27 Yeah, that is really. It's very odd to think of that. If you're a hit man, you don't show up. He's not a hit man, I know, but. I mean he is technically, but yeah, yeah, you don't show up to a house ready to murder someone without already having in mind the way you're going to do it. Yeah. Another man soon came forward, Mark Blandford, a friend of Michael Beard's. Blandford told police that on the night of September twenty eighth, Beard picked him up and offered him five hundred dollars to act as a lookout. Beard didn't say anything about a murder he claimed he had been hired to burn down the Clayton's home. According to Blandford, the plan was to set the house on fire. No one was supposed to be there. Tom was clear that he wanted the garage and vehicles destroyed as well to maximize the insurance payout. He said Tom had even left gas cans in the garage for Beard to use. Beard initially testified before a grand jury against Thomas. Without his testimony, there was no case against him.

41:27 So we're still learning a lot about the legal system, and it surprised me that the grand jury met after his arrest. It might seem unusual that Thomas was arrested the very next day before a grand jury had ever convened, but legally that's completely normal. In cases of murder, police don't need a grand jury to make an arrest. They only need probable cause, meaning enough initial evidence to reasonably believe a suspect may have committed the crime. In the case, Charlie's statements, the lack of forest entry, and the early inconsistencies in thomas His account run enough for investigators to move forward with his arrest. The grand jury came later after the arrest, when the district attorney presented the case to determine whether there was sufficient evidence to formally charge or indict the suspect, so an arrest can happen quickly based on early clues, while the grand jury's job is to review the growing body of evidence afterward.

42:24 Yeah, that makes sense, but. It still seems like they really jumped the gun. Oh yeah, it totally seems like they jumped the gun. But I know, I often get confused between like anrest, an arrest, an indictment, and arraignment, all these different things. They're all a little bit different, but they're all very closely related. Well, once Michael Beard, when they interviewed him and they saw that he was a black man, and Charlie said, oh, he looked with my dad. They must have been pretty nervous. Yeah, right, I'm sure. About a week before Thomas's trial was to begin in November twenty sixteen, Beer suddenly recanted his confession. He now claimed he had only been hired to burn down an empty house for insurance money, and that when he arrived he walked in on another man beating Kelly. It was a dramatic reversal, and one that directly conflicted with his earlier statements to police. Beard's sudden recantation threw a wrench into everything. With the trial just days away, Prosecutors had to pause and reassess. Hearings were scheduled, evidence was re reviewed, and the case was pushed back to January twenty seventeen so both sides could address Beard's new contradictory claim.

43:39 Prosecutors must have just freaked out, Oh, totally have no case now. Yeah, that is wild, and it just seems like ridiculous that he's claiming he didn't do this, like he told them where to find the murder weapons exactly. Beard's recantation was especially absurd because it didn't align with any of the physical evidence. Kelly's blood was found on his clothing, and the pattern showed direct contact, not accidental transfer. His DNA was recovered from a bloody fingerprint inside the house, placing him at the scene during the attack, not afterward as a startled bystander. Investigators also found that he had ditched the murder weapon, the keys to the house, and the clothes he wore that night along a back road.

44:24 None of that fits with his claim that he innocently walked in on someone else killing Kelly. But he said, you know, if I were to call the police, they would have thought I was a suspect anyway. So I gathered the evidence and got rid of it because as a black man, you know, I would have been arrested anyway. Yeah. Taken together the scientific evidence, the discarded items, and his earlier detailed confession made his last minute story not just unbelievable but impossible. So once he recanted his confession, there was no plea deal and he was sent to trial. Yeah. Seems like a really bad move on his part because now he's not going to get any kind of break.

45:07 Or it doesn't make sense. In February twenty seventeen, at his seven week trial, Beard was found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder and second degree murder. He was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Mark Blandford claimed he had no idea Beard intended to kill Kelly, and believed the plan was only to burn down the Clayton's house After the murder, however, he helped Beard dispose of evidence. In April twenty seventeen, he pleaded guilty to second degree manslaughter and received a three to six year sentence as part of a plea agreement in exchange for testifying against Thomas Clayton. He expressed remorse to the court for his part in the murder quote, I want to apologize to the family of Kelly Clayton for my role. If I could do it all over, I never would have gotten into that car. We'll be back after a break.

46:06 So how do you think this trial is going to go down without Michael Beard's testimony. I don't feel like it's going to go down very well. So Thomas Clayton's trial began in January twenty seventeen. A woman who worked for State Farm Insurance testify that she met Tom through her professional dealings with him at Serve pro. He stopped by, often lingering to Chad and sometimes confided that he was unhappy in his marriage but couldn't divorce Kelly because she would get everything. I haven't talked about this up to this point, but Thomas was obsessed with money. He really liked money. He liked the prestige that you know he had, you know, being a wealthy business owner, but just also he just wanted more. The woman described their interactions as flirtatious and said that she and her friend once had sex with Tom at her home, and that she and Tom met up other times as well, that it was casual, nothing serious, but she also remembered Tom asking about increasing Kelly's life insurance policy from five hundred thousand dollars to one million dollars, but like I said before, he increased his own substantially. Kelly's best friend Andrea Spurrock testified that after hosting Kelly's thirty fifth birthday party at the Clayton's home just two months before the murder, Tom came on to her when they were outside talking about a problem she was having with her boyfriend Helen, leaned in and tried to kiss her twice. She said he also complained about his sex life with Kelly and told her that he was no longer happy in his marriage.

47:38 This is Kelly's lifelong best friend that he's talking to. Moron Schamuon County District Attorney Whedon Wetmore later said it was one of the most demanding investigations his office had ever handled. After Michael Beard recanted his confession, prosecutors had to hustle to come up with an entirely new plan. Detective executed countless search warrants for cell phone records and Google geolocation data, ultimately gathering so much material that it filled an entire storage closet. Wetmore noted that without the digital evidence and that technology used to interpret the confusing data, building a case against Thomas Clayton would have been much more difficult, if not impossible. A key figure in the prosecution's case was ci Ray, a former police officer turned software developer. Ray founded ZX, an Arizona based company that specializes in translating complex cell phone and geolocation data into clear maps and visuals that jurors can easily understand. In this case, zx's analysis showed that after Beard received the call from Thomas on Linda's phone, he immediately left his house.

48:53 The software helped untangle some confusing evidence surrounding a complex vehicle switch. Michael Beard didn't own a car, which raised the obvious question, how did he get to the Clayton's home that night. The answer unfolded the weekend before the murder, when one of Thomas's employees, Luke Tetreaux, asked to borrow his four wheeler. When Luke offered to return the four wheeler on Monday, Thomas suggested a simpler plan. They could just swap trucks at work, sparing Luke a trip to his house. Tom would use the red truck for the night, unload the four wheeler at home, and then the next morning they would switch vehicles at work. You understand it's a little loss. So this employee, Luke asked to borrow.

49:38 Tom's four wheel tombs four wheeler okay, and he said, you can use my truck while I borrow your four wheeler. When he was returning the four wheeler, he said, I'll just you don't have to drive all the way to my house with the four wheeler. Let me just take your truck back to my house for the night. I'll unload the load the four wheeler, and then the next morning I'll drive it to work. And you've and He's had Thomas's truck the nighttcha to get it. It was just really saving Luke this trip to Thomas's house. At the time, it seemed like a harmless accommodation, but after Kelly's murder, investigators began to see it differently. Digital evidence, combined with surveillance footage, showed that the swap was far more orchestrated than it initially appeared. Here's what actually happened.

50:27 Tom brought the four wheeler home, then drove Luke's red truck back to Serve Pro, which surveillance cameras captured. He left the red truck at Serve Pro, then took a different work truck to the Miller's house for the poker game. Tom had purchased a bicycle for Michael Beard on September twenty first. Beard rode the bike to Serve Pro. After eleven PM on September twenty eighth, picked up the red truck and drove it to the Clayton's home to carry out the murder. Later, he dropped the truck back off at Serve Pro. On Greeny surveillance camera footage, Beard could be seen riding off into the night on his bike.

51:07 So the vehicle switch with Luke suddenly wasn't a favor. It was a logistical setup. It put Thomas in one truck, Beard in another, and made Beard's rout of the house both possible and traceable once investigators mapped the digital evidence. That's a pretty fairly elaborate plan, and this Luke guy wasn't involved at all. He knew, but he was the one who asked to use toime. Yeah, can I borrow your four? As far as we know, that wasn't part of the plan, So. Thomas maybe saw that as an opportunity. Okay, what more joke that CYRAE and ZX was his Christmas present? Because Ray's testimony clearly laid out for the jury how the cell phone movements of both Clayton and Beard in the days before Kelly's death aligned with the prosecution's theory that the two men worked together to plan Kelly's murder.

51:55 When you talked about this business, ZEDX, I thought immediately, this is a great idea because in these cases that rely really heavily on digital forensic evidence, it's so confusing to a jury. Right, well, we can attest to that, it's really hard to figure it out. Yeah. Over the course of the trial, prosecutors introduced more than four hundred pieces of evidence and called fifty two witnesses. Several were women who said they had affairs with Thomas, including one who was under age at the time. Their stories shared the same disturbing message. Tom referred to Kelly as lazy and ungrateful, complained she wasn't sexually fulfilling, and repeatedly portrayed himself as trapped in an unhappy marriage. The prosecution used this testimony to build a portrait of a man who wanted out but didn't want a divorce that would cost him financially. They argued that Tom's affairs, resentment, and fixation on money, combined with the life insurance inquiries and an elaborate vehicle swich, demonstrated motive intent and planning. Meanwhile, the defense tried to cast Beard as a liar and the sole perpetrator, clinging to Beard's last minute recantation, but the mountain of digital data, blood evidence, and Beard's earlier detailed confession made that strategy an uphill battle. So what do you think is that enough evidence to get a conviction?

53:22 I don't know. It's really hard, I think with just that kind of relying so heavily on the digital forensic evidence. But at the same time, Beard's explanation makes no sense without him being hired by someone. His initial confession matched up perfectly with all of the digital data too. And they could use that confession here in the trial as well, I'm sure. On February twenty third, twenty seventeen. The jury deliberated just six hours after a nearly seven week trial. They found Thomas Clayton guilty. There were no tears in the courtroom, only tears. Thomas was sentenced to life in prison, with the US the possibility of her role. At his sentencing, Andy Spurrock spoke September twenty ninth, twenty fifteen. The music stopped and everything froze. I asked for the maximum sentence, so no one else will ever be hurt by this despicable man. The most heartbreaking moment came when the judge heard a written statement from Charlie Clayton. According to the Elmris Stargazette, she wrote, I feel my dad as a coward because he asked Michael Beard to kill my mom.

54:31 Kim added her own words, refusing to call her former brother in law by name. The defendant is a skilled sociopath. The defendant's actions speak volumes. When he was released from jail, he immediately went to be with another woman. He was living large while we were barely hanging on. Thomas Clayton broke his long silence with a strange and emotional statement. When the judge allowed him to speak, he spoke for twenty minutes, delivering a blistering tirade. He began by thanking Kelly's family for caring for his children until I get them back, he said. Then he abruptly turned on them, shouting obscenities. He insisted he was innocent, at one point facing the gallery and yelling that he had nothing to do with Kelly's murder one hundred percent. He also made unusual claims, including that a woman he spent time with the previous summer was not a girlfriend but a seer who helped him experience visions of Kelly. He accused law enforcement of framing him, and alleged that detectives tried to extort money from Michael Beard's wife. He even said that District Attorney Whedon Wetmore should get the cell next to me for supposedly mishandling the case. I couldn't find the exactly what he said, but it must have been completely unhinged.

55:51 Yeah it is. It must have made people feel pretty confident that they got the right person. Yeah. So, after the verdict was Announcedcott clan and Tom's father said, I am extremely proud and honored to call Thomas my son. I will hold my head high and not be ashamed. He has carried himself well in spite of the huge miscarriage of justice that has come his way. He has devoted himself to proving his son's innocence, poring over court transcripts and challenging the investigation at every turn. The family believes Beard went to the Clayton home on September twenty eighth with the intent to rob it, pointing to a missing cash box as evidence. Scott told the Star Gazette that there was not one shread a physical forensic evidence that pointed to Thomas. It was all circumstantial, arguing that jurors had to make leaps to find him guilty.

56:45 He also accused law enforcement of tunnel vision, saying that once investigators decided Thomas was their suspect, they do anything in their power to sway the evidence in that direction. Tom's family cites body camerau footage in which a deputy can be heard suggesting the case was a domestic incident, using it as an example of how quickly police settled on Thomas. They maintained that the investigation was mishandled. The key leads were overlooked, including unknown DNA found on Kelly and that Thomas was targeted too early and too narrowly. Both Thomas Clayton and Michael Beard have since exhausted all of their appeals and remain in jail. We played just a brief snippet of the body camera footage, but that deputy did you know ask several people like, oh, do you think was their unhappiness in the marriage, and you know, do you think Thomas had anything to do with it?

57:38 And at that point, like the neighbor for example, was like, I don't know, I think they were happy. They did definitely seem to rush to judgment pretty quickly, but at the same time, it's pretty natural that you would those would be the first things they would ask. About, right. So the children have both dealt with PTSD since losing their mother. Kelly's sister Kim and her husband Corey adopted Charlie and Cullen and have phraised them as their own along with their two children, and they're said to be thriving, and I think that's exactly where Kelly would want her children to be. This past September marked ten years since Kelly's murder. Her family remains heartbroken. Kim told the starga is at quote. I will never be able to put into words what was going through my mind when I found out Kelly was murdered. Shock, disbelief, devastation, rage.

58:27 There is no normal. There is nothing normal about your sister, mother, daughter being murdered. I am not the same person I was ten years ago. None of us are. Time does not lessen the pain. It actually hurts worse some days. There have been so many milestones in her children's lives that she has missed. We talk about her all the time. I see so much of her and both of them. They are the best parts of her that are still here with us today. Kelly's words just made me think about how hard it must be to balance the present way the past, Like you want the kids to move on and accept this new you know, their new mom, which their aunt. It's just such a tricky balance.

59:09 It really is. But yeah, of course you want to honor their mother and make sure that they remember her as well at the same time. In closing, I'm going to read Kim's words. For those that have never had the privilege of knowing Kelly, I would tell you that she is as bright as the sun, funny bold, sassy, loyal. She had the best smile and absolutely adored her babies. They were the light of her life and they too shine as bright as the sun. Rest in peace, Kelly. I just wanted to mention one last thing. And researching this case, I thought back to the Chris Benoa case and CTE, and I remember that hockey players and soccer players other athletes also experience a high level of ctely and it maybe wonder, not excusing anything, if maybe Thomas could have affected by that?

1:00:01 Does wonder? A December twenty twenty four article in jama Network Open reported on a major study from the Boston University CTE Center, the largest ever conducted on male ice hockey players. Researchers examined the brains of seventy seven deceased players and found a striking link between the length of a player's career and the risk of developing chronic traumatic encephalopathy or CTE. According to the study, the odds of having CTE increased by thirty four percent for every additional year played, and eighteen of the nineteen NHL players included in the sample showed evidence of the disease. Researchers found CTE in ninety six percent of the professional players, forty six percent of junior college and semi pro players, and ten percent of youth and high school players. Importantly, while in four urcers have long been the focus of CTE concern, the studies showed that both enforcers and non enforcers are at significant risk, and once researchers accounted for years played, the difference between the two groups was not statistically significant. In other words, repetitive head impacts from checking, falls and collisions put all male hockey players at risk, not just the fighters. The study also emphasized that its sample may over represent symptomatic athletes because families dealing with concerning symptoms are more likely

1:01:35 to donate their loved one's brain. Ice hockey now joins American football and rugby as sports with clear dose response relationship between years of participation and CTE risk. Researchers noted that these findings apply to male players only because women's hockey has different roles regarding checking. The risks to female players remains unknown well, of course, because females are never given the same amount of scientific study as males. But what do you think of that? It's disturbing? It really is disturbing. Every time I hear these facts about CT, primarily about football, it just it it's very sad and disturbing.

1:02:17 Yeah, I don't know if Thomas really showed signs of it. There were no stories of him being violent with his wife or anyone else. Really, he was narcissistic and sociopathic potentially. Sort of his unhinged behavior at the trial during his statements. Right, that might be slightly indicative, feels a little bit like it. But yeah, it's hard to They can't. There's not testing they can do on living players that I know of. But that's a good question. Yeah, I'm just curious, but that's who knows. But like you said at the beginning, it doesn't excuse his behavior. But right, we never know what goes on behind closed doors. And maybe Kelly really just didn't talk about any of the violence that we happening in their home. To me, these cases when the man has no prior history of domestic violence are the most chilling. Like a seemingly normal guy and all of a sudden he wants to kill his wife. Right, Well, I should act like, do you have any reasonable doubt?

1:03:17 I don't. I do wish that the evidence that there was more evidence to make it more clear, but obviously it must have been enough for a jury to convict him. But I believe there's no other explanation than he contracted Michael Beard to carry this out. The Michael Beard argument is compelling because he kind of had motive because he was fired and he was being evicted. But the phone calls, I think are pretty damning. Yes, for sure, the purchase of the bicycle after he'd been fired, yep. Yeah, that was I thought the same thing at first. And oh he got fired not long before. Maybe he was disgruntled and just you know, decided to do this on his own. But I think yet with all that other evidence, that doesn't make sense.

1:03:59 What kind of monster leaves their children home alone in this situation? I mean, it's so it. Reminds me of a case we did not that long ago. It was Nancy and Brad Cooper. Do you remember, like how he'd stayed in the hotel and was able to drive back and he left I think she was two at the time, his two year old alone. So so disturbing, well, and apparently wanted Michael Beard to burn the house down. Even worse, Well, that leads to my next question. Do you believe that that's the case or do you think that Beard made that up? We know that Beard has lied. Yeah, I don't know why would he Why would he make that up? Though? I don't I don't know, well because I don't like to think that any person could be that evil, right, but you never know. There are people out there who are horrible and evil and terrible people.

1:04:47 Yeah, so this thought just breaks my heart and I think about it all the time. The victim's final minutes. Do you think that Kelly, I mean, Kelly knew Michael, so she knew that he's chasing her around the house, he's trying kill her. Yeah, does she piece together that Thomas is behind it? I bet she did. It is so heartbreaking to think about that. But I think she would have had. To have known, and she didn't know if her children would survive the attack, right, Yeah, that's so devastating to think about, Like her final moments were just yeah, just so sad. Do you think insurance companies like you should be able to ensure increase your insurance? Sure? But should it be flagged? Should there be a I don't know, I don't know what the answer is, but this happens so really good.

1:05:33 Question, And I don't know the answer either, because yeah, you should be free to buy insurance. But yeah, it does seem like it happens so often that there should be some flags, some kind of red flag or something. But I mean, it would be impossible to investigate, you know, or I don't know what the answer is. But yeah, but in this case, I'm not sure how much Thomas's motivation was financial other than he just wanted out of the marriage. If he wanted out of the marriage, he could have gotten a divorce. So it sounds like the Remember he kept telling people, I can't get divorced because Kelly will get everything right. So that's why I say it's financial in that way that he knew he would lose half of, you know, what he had. So I don't know.

1:06:15 Do you think that Michael Beard was manipulated by Thomas because he was living paycheck to paycheck. He had at least three kids that I know of, to support, and he was hit, you know, just having a hard time making ends meet, and his relationship with Thomas, he gave him a lot of odd jobs. You know, he worked for him at Serve Pro he lived in his house. Do you think he used his position of authority over him? It sure seems like, yeah, he's in a position where he's basically supporting this guy's life, and could you know, manipulate him into doing something like this if he wanted to. The attack was so brutal on Kelly, it's hard, like there's no excusing that. Why do you think he recanted his confession?

1:07:03 That boggles my mind? Think Thomas could again have been pressuring him like you know, I'll go after your family or. I don't know, there's no explanation for it. Like I'm sure he had a lawyer, even a public defender is going to tell him this is a really bad idea, because at least with his confession and agreement to testify against Thomas, I'm sure he could have gotten some deal where he could have gotten out of prison eventually. And as it is, they had so much evidence against Michael Beard that there was no way he was going to get out of getting convicted. So he was interviewed on twenty twenty and still it was an older episode, but he still is maintaining really this story that.

1:07:47 Showed up there to rob the house, and it's just such a ridiculous story. I don't know it is, Yeah, I don't know. And what do you think of using a child's account as evidence against someone? Oh, I think it's perfect reasonable, But obviously you have to take it, take the context around it, and you have to understand that children, especially like seven years old, they're going to remember things differently and not necessarily well. They perceive the world differently too. Yeah, exactly, so you just have to I think it's makes perfect sense that you would ask the children what happened and you would take that into account, but you can't necessarily I don't think you can't rely on anyway this test of already one hundred percent, right. We've always talked about the fact that that is one of the most unreliable forms of evidence, but probably even a little bit more so for a child.

1:08:36 Yeah. Well, that is the story of Kelly and Thomas Clayton. I recommend watching the twenty twenty episode if you want to see more of Charlie's interview or some of the investigation. And the sheriff was really touching in this story. So, yeah, there was a dayline episode, but I didn't it wasn't as in depth as in the twenty twenty episode one. It's always good to see the people involved and actually hear what they have to say on these shows. Definitely all right, before we go, I have a question for you. Do you know what people are absolutely obsessed with right now in the world of hockey.

1:09:17 I really don't. I don't follow hockey very closely. Okay, well, the hottest thing in hockey right now is gay hockey romance. Oh, I see, I did see on Netflix the other day there is some. Okay, you're right, it was HBO. I did see some. So you watched it when you're in Las Vegas. No, I watched Heated Rivalry, the new series out. So this genre is having a full blown breakout moment. Forget shootouts, it's all about slow burns. Forget hat tricks. It's emotional breakthroughs. Suddenly the enforcerer isn't dropping gloves, He's dropping his drawers. I do have a friend who you know that I am friends with on Good Read.

1:09:58 Yes, I am friends with her. Years ago she started getting into gay hockey romance novels. I was like, wow, are there so many gay hockey genre? It's a huge genre. So straight women, queer readers, book talk, Bookstagram. Basically anyone who loves big feelings and bigger biceps. They're inhaling these stories like their oxygen on the bench during overtime. You know we should do we should start a gay hockey romance Hallmark Channel. Okay, okay, well, so, just because I'm an I'm a scientist, I'm a journalist, I'm an investigator. I'm really curious woman.

1:10:38 I watched an episode of Heated Rivalry. What did you I didn't dislike it. I'm not gonna say a whole lot about it, but you know it's it's enticing. I see the appeal. It's not for everyone. I think it's really funny though, that straight women are really embracing gay hockey romances. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah check it out. Let us know what you think. I thought that Heated Rivalry was pretty sat I will probably I will definitely actually watch more. So are you going to check out he should we watch it together? I watched one episode. Can you recommend it? I'll watch it? Really? Yeah? Sure? Did you like how I tied that all in together?

1:11:21 Very well done? Well, I have one more quick thing before we go. Okay, two truths and a lie ready? Oh sure, Okay, two truths and one lie, So tell me which is the lie. A Pennsylvania man was arrested after choking a higher driver who refused to stop singing Christmas songs. In March, a twenty five year old man, Clayton Thomas, became enraged at the driver singing and reached around the seat and began choking him. A state trooper discovered the incident after being flagged down for a possible roadside medical emergency. The driver had red marks on his neck and bloodshot eyes. No major injury injuries, gratefully were reported. Authorities have not disclosed which Christmas song prompted the attack.

1:12:06 Wait, the man's name was Clayton Thomas, Yeah, why. Is that weird? A Minnesota man reportedly called nine to one one to report a burglary in progress, only for police to discover he was upset because his neighbors put their Christmas tree lights up before Thanksgiving and he insisted it was illegal. He demanded officers to force them to take the lights down, and he was warned not to misuse nine one one again. Number three. A Florida woman was arrested after attacking her boyfriend with a miniature Christmas tree because he turned off the TV during her favorite holiday movie, A Christmas Story. Police said she struck him repeatedly with the tiny tree and threw ornaments at his head.

1:12:55 Wow, Christmas Story. You're not as big of a fan of it as I am. I mean, I like it, but yeah, I think it's a little it's just maybe too absurd from me, just. A little bit dated, maybe over the years. But those all sound fairly plausible, Yes, But I am going to say the first one definitely sounds plausible. The name has thrown me off, though I don't know. It just seems very coincidental that the person has the same name in reverse as our case subject today. But I'm gonna the second one seems the least plausible to me, Like, I can't imagine you would do that. You really don't think someone would do that. I mean I would be I might be upset about it, like, yeah, you don't put your lights up that early, and it's stupid, but you don't call nine one one.

1:13:38 Yeah, you're right, you are correct. The first one is funny because you don't have We love newspapers dot com, even though we pay kind of a lot for it. But I was researching this story and that's how I found that story, and I just made laugh and so I thought, well, I'm going to make a little game out of that. Because his name was Clayton Thomas. I could totally see attacking someone for singing. Christmas Christmas humes in March. We shouldn't laugh. But no one was really injured, yea. And I wouldn't really attack anyone for that, but I could see my blood start boiling a little bit. Why is this person singing, Oh, Christmas tree over?

1:14:19 I guess which song would you say? I would say jingle Balls because there's not a lot to it. Yeah, that's probably a. Good guest, think so. And remember like when our kids were little, you know, like they would sing that all the time. It's like yeah, kids, yeah, yeah. Thank you all so much for listening. We truly truly appreciate it. We wish you all just if this is the last episode you listened to before the holidays, whatever holiday you're celebrating, wherever you are, we appreciate you, We love you, and we wish you all the warmth and happiness and joy and peace of the holiday season. Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com. Consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash love Mary Kill. We have one tier five dollars a month and you get early ad free access plus a monthly bonus episode.

1:15:11 And don't forget to find us on YouTube and subscribe to our poor little, slowly growing YouTube channel until next time. Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband. It's a little low. I think most people would really enjoy these.

1:16:12 I'm going to give them an eight fund. Oh my god, I am going to do it again. Okay, one more time.