Kristin Rossum and Greg de Villers - Part 2

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina. And I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've learned in over 20 years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife. And some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to Love, Marry, Kill. Hey, Rich. Hey, Tina. We remembered our old opening. Yes, it was hard to remember. That was for a lot of people who said that they missed it, but especially Carol, who really misses our old opening. So we decided we'll sprinkle it in every now and then.

0:40 Yeah, nice. I am surprised you're not protesting today because you were not voted... People's Sexiest Man Alive. I saw that post on Instagram and I didn't even know about it. So I didn't throw my hat in the ring. I guess it's probably my fault. I don't think you have to nominate yourself. I don't think Noah Wiley was like, oh, pick me, pick me. I think it has to happen in an organic way. Every year, every year. But you are, in my world, the sexiest, most handsome man alive. Aw, thanks. For sure. I appreciate your vote. It surprised me a little bit because I know Noah Wiley is not the same person as Dr. Robbie, but Dr.

1:21 Robbie is very emotionally unavailable and closed off, don't you think? Yeah, that's true. That's not sexy. No. Well, here's the thing. I think it kind of is. It is to some people. I think that people do like a man with a little bit of mystery and baggage, which we shouldn't. I mean, a lot of people are a big fan of yours, though, and I feel like you're pretty... emotionally available. I'm making you really uncomfortable. I'm really sorry. Yes, very uncomfortable. So since last week, wink, wink, when we recorded part one, the weather has kind of changed a little bit. It feels a little more like fall. I've been cold all day. I know people are tired of hearing. About how- Do you think you were meant to live in Florida or California?

2:07 You know, I wonder. Maybe. Maybe Arizona. I don't know. But your people, they don't come from a warmer climate. No, they don't. I grew up and born and raised in cold climates, and yet I just don't like it. People always say that, like, oh, you're from Michigan. You must be used to the cold. You must like it. I'm like, no, I hate it. Yeah. I can confirm. But I did get a new space heater, and that's working out pretty well. Are you happy with that? Because when I purchased it, I think we actually mentioned it on air, you were hesitant about it. It was different. It's like a fan, but I like it. I think it's actually better than the one I had before because I can put it in the corner. And it just sort of blows warm air around the room, and it's nice. Well, I got it at Costco, and I always feel like if I get something at Costco, it usually works out, and you can always return it.

2:52 They do a good job there. I made you a snack. I was thinking today, wouldn't it be funny if I gave you a leftover snack because we have so much of that popcorn left? Yeah. We've never done that before. People would probably riot. People would protest. Do you know what this, do you have an idea? I think it might involve bacon, but I don't know. No, it doesn't actually. You were making bacon, but not for this. Long story. But because the weather has been so summer-like, I've been craving a BLT. We have very, I think a lot of people do like things that we eat in the summer, things that we eat in the colder months. And I've been craving a BLT. So I went to Panera. Got This is a side note, but I got that bread that we liked today when I was running errands, and I thought we could have BLTs for dinner.

3:32 Oh, okay. When we're recording, I always feel bad because I'm always like, well, here's some candy corn for dinner. Or whatever it is. Which I'm usually okay with. Yeah, you're very amenable. I got you a pear. We've been enjoying the fall pears a lot. Yeah. And I'm surprised that you don't know what I, because I was cooking it. And usually when I'm cooking onions, you come out in the kitchen, you're like, oh, it smells so good. No, I didn't. I made Ina Gartens, who I love Ina, a pan fried onion dip. Oh, okay. That sounds good. I'm not sure if you're going to like it or not. I love French onion dip. I like French onion dip. It's like my death row meal is just chips and French onion dip. Would you prefer it with Fritos or potato chips? Potato chips. Ruffles specifically. Oh, okay. Ruffles hold the dip better.

4:15 Okay, another side note. I went to Costco today because I thought that they would have my favorite purple chips that are only available in late October and November, and they don't have them. So that's why I made this recipe, and that's why I went to Costco. So they didn't have them, but I do have Fritos and Ruffles. You can choose which one you want. Excellent. So what did you think of the onion dip? You know, I didn't love it. I don't know what it is about it. I like the flavor. I like onions. But something about the texture of it I didn't love. So this is a snack that I definitely made for me and not you because there's cream cheese in it. Oh, that's the thing, yeah. Yeah, you can just sense it.

4:59 Yeah, I didn't taste the cream cheese, but it was something about the texture of it just didn't quite work for me. The pear, however, was maybe the most perfect pear I've ever eaten. Yeah, the pears have been great. Great. I think the dip is amazing. I give it an 11 out of 10. I love French onion dip. You do too, though, if it's like in a container. I do like French onion dip, but yeah, I think it's the cream cheese. Yeah, I guess it's the cream cheese. And I did substitute nonfat Greek yogurt for the sour cream. Oh, see, I'm not a big fan of Greek yogurt either. Yeah. So I was a little selfish today. No worries. We're back for part two of Kristen Rossum and Greg DeVillers. In Part 1, we met Kristen Rossum, a bright, ambitious young woman raised in a family where success and appearances were extremely important. Despite excelling academically and in ballet, Kristen struggled with her self-image and developed an addiction to methamphetamine.

5:52 In December 1994, after being expelled from college, 18-year-old Kristen ran away from home and met 21-year-old Greg DeVillers at the Mexican border. Greg was kind, hardworking, and devoted to his family. He quickly fell in love with Kristen and helped her get her life back on track. The couple married in June 1999, but their relationship was already troubled. Less than a year later, Kristen began an affair with Michael Robertson, her married supervisor at the San Diego County Medical Examiner's Office, where she worked as a toxicologist. By the fall of 2000, her marriage was falling apart and she had begun using drugs again. On November 6th, Greg failed to show up for work. That evening, Kristen called 911 after finding her 26-year-old husband unresponsive in bed, surrounded by red rose petals. Although Greg's death was initially believed to be a suicide or accidental overdose, his brothers weren't convinced.

6:52 They were determined to find out what had happened to their brother first, to be there for Greg just as he had always been there for them. Is there anything you want to add to that summary? The only thing I thought of, we talked about it near the end of part one, the kind of awkwardness of the medical examiner's office being involved in the investigation of Greg's death when Kristen worked there and was having an affair with her supervisor, who I believe suggested at one point, we don't really need to do an autopsy. Yeah, he said exactly that. And his body, after they were done with his body at the hospital, his body was taken right to her office. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy. Very weird. Two days after Greg's death, his brothers and friend, Chris Wren, began conducting their own investigation, starting with Dr. Brian Blackburn, the medical examiner who had performed the autopsy. Blackburn told them he had discovered an unidentified white substance in Greg's stomach contents and noticed irritation in his esophagus. He commented on the puncture marks on Greg's arm, saying that whoever had attempted to access his arteries must have been on their very first day of the job. Next, the brother spoke with Greg's co-workers, who were shocked by his death.

8:04 None of them believed Greg was likely to have taken his own life. He had shown no signs of depression or apathy. His co-workers had taken it upon themselves and poured through Greg's email looking for clues. One email stood out. the one that Greg sent to Kristen questioning her drug prescriptions. Stefan Grunewald, Greg's boss and mentor, wrote a letter to the San Diego Police Department encouraging them to open an investigation into his death because he didn't believe he'd taken his own life. He wrote, Greg has been a very hardworking, happy, ambitious, and extremely optimistic person that always looked into the future and had many goals for himself to accomplish in the following years. Jerome, Greg's brother, then contacted Detective Lori Agnew at the San Diego Police Department to explain why the family was so concerned. Greg had died unexpectedly, and his death had quickly been ruled a suicide. His wife was a toxicologist employed by the very office that had conducted his autopsy. Jerome suspected that Kristen was having an affair with her boss, and he was troubled by how quickly she wanted Greg's body cremated. With so many unanswered questions and potential conflicts of interest, Jerome wanted an independent autopsy reform before Greg's body was cremated. Detective Agnew was dubious about Jerome's claims. He was near hysterics when she talked with him on the phone, but she did some follow-up and discovered that Kristen had already made arrangements for a cremation.

9:34 Agnew put a hold on Greg's body. When someone at the medical examiner's office confirmed the affair between Kristen and Michael... Agnew, with her boss's approval, opened a special investigation. The brothers went to talk to Kristen. They noticed that the pictures of Greg had already been taken down and none of his clothing or possessions remained in the apartment. They even saw a pair of his shoes sticking out of the trash. Michael was there with Kristen. Jerome had a tape recorder in his pocket. Do you want to play Jerome and I'll be Kristen? Sure. It's hard for me to believe that my brother committed suicide. I don't think he did. I think it was accidental. I don't know if he had a reaction to something. Maybe he's allergic to a drug. Maybe he just... Jerome, I don't know. I know we don't know, and we don't know until the toxicology results are back. I'm just as confused as you. I told Greg that I wanted a separation, that's it, and he gave me an ultimatum. Kristen, you either quit your work, or I'll tell your work about your drug history. He didn't want me working at the lab anymore. He thought it was a bad environment for me to be in.

10:40 There's gotta be a reason he didn't want you to work there if he's threatening you. What about those conventions you went to with your boss? Why was he there three days after Greg died? He was dropping off a paycheck. He's a good guy. What about the conventions? He's a good guy. Why did Greg take Thursday afternoon off? I came home and I made him lunch and, well, he became very, very aggressive and accusatory towards me, saying, you're doing drugs. I know you're doing drugs. He searched my purse and he started searching me and he found an old letter. It was from Michael. That's why I shredded it. There's more going on here, Kristen, with Michael. No, there isn't. For you to tell me, real defensive, he just came here to drop off the check. There's something else here going on.

11:24 We are just good friends. Michael feels horribly about Greg's death, too. This is all just so scary. This has taken over all parts of my life. I have nothing left. The career that I loved, the husband that was wonderful. I made mistakes. I did. I regret that our last days together were spent arguing. I don't know why he did this. On Monday morning, his speech was slurry. He sounded like he was drunk. It was unusual. I didn't know until later that he had taken some pills. Did you ask him what he took? Of course I did. So what did I do? I called in sick for him. Kristen, you told me on Tuesday that Greg took all of them. All of them, yes, but I don't know how many. He didn't say how many. There's no way. You don't know for sure if he was sleeping. Did he say something? Did he grunt?

12:09 I called 911, hysterical, and turned on the light, and he was white, and I had to take him off the bed and onto the floor. God, I miss my Greg, my husband. I go over in my head, wondering, wishing I could have done more, wishing I knew it was like that. I don't know. I don't know. I'm afraid that the death certificate is going to say suicide, and I don't want that, and that's why I'm doing my hardest to rule out any possibilities. He was happy and paying off his debt. He was happy about work. He had a lot weighing on him, though. Jerome checked the medicine cabinet before he left, but he didn't find any drugs inside. When they were leaving, Kristen moved to hug the brothers, but they declined. Later that week, the DeVillers hired an attorney to help them gain control of Greg's body and have a second autopsy performed. Greg's memorial service was held on November 12th, on what would have been his 27th birthday. His body had not yet been cremated, but the family had decided... against pursuing a second autopsy.

13:10 Greg was cremated on December 8th, and Kristen gave his cremains to her parents for safekeeping. When Greg's remains were eventually returned to the DeVillers family, they scattered them around Duck Lake in the Mammoth Lakes area of California. It was one of Greg's favorite places in the mountains, where he had many happy memories with his family while growing up. Do you know why his family decided against the second autopsy? It seemed like they were very, you know, forceful about wanting to pursue this. Remember when a lot of his tissues and his cornea and parts of his bones were donated? Right. I think they thought there just wasn't a lot left that they could investigate. And I believe at this point they were still waiting for the toxicology, and the toxicology really was going to be the most telling part of the autopsy.

13:56 Got it. With their spouses no longer standing in the way, Kristen and Michael became more open about their relationship. A week after Greg's death, Kathy Hamm, a toxicologist at the medical examiner's office, borrowed Michael's desk. She reached for a yellow legal pad to take some notes and discovered a love letter Michael had written to Kristen. In it, he expressed his loneliness and impatience for Kristen to leave Greg. Quote, You and I played out what some may call fate, others destiny. Now as I sit here, time slows down. The days pass and another night drags on, and I tell myself it's okay, not many to go now. Then days become weeks and weeks and months. There had been suspicions about their affair for months, but the letter confirmed them.

14:43 Kathy called a friend who was an attorney, and he advised her to make a copy of the letter and give it to the police. So the letter that Michael wrote and many of the other letters that he wrote and the things that he did make it seem like he was hopelessly in love and devoted to Kristen. But he has, you know, his wife that he's going to counseling with, but he's also seeing other women on the side too. Wow. And Kristen may have as well. Okay. Greg DeViller's toxicology results came back positive for three drugs, fentanyl, clonazepam, and oxycodone. Fentanyl was particularly concerning. This powerful synthetic opioid, approximately 100 times stronger than morphine, was primarily used in medical settings for anesthesia and severe pain. Although illicit fentanyl existed in 2000, it was nowhere near as prevalent on the streets as it is today. The oxycodone was present only in trace amounts and the clonazepam was within the therapeutic range. The fentanyl, however, was at a lethal concentration.

15:47 I believe they said it was 100 times more than necessary to kill him. Wow. So an exceptional amount. Dr. Brian Blackburn believed that the combination of drugs in Greg's system had likely left him comatose for 6 to 12 hours before Kristen called 911. Investigators were baffled. How had Greg obtained fentanyl, and how had it entered his system? They decided it was time to bring Kristen in for a formal interview. So it's hard to believe that fentanyl in this time... wasn't on the streets as it is today. And a lot of things are laced with fentanyl today, but they weren't that long ago. So people were like, this is really hard to believe that he just, you know, got the drug.

16:32 Was fentanyl sometimes prescribed by doctors at that point in time? I know they had patches, but I think it was usually closely observed by doctors, like in a hospital setting, like in surgery, things like that. But I could be wrong. When Kristen arrived for the interview, investigators suspected she was under the influence of drugs. She had sores and scabs on her face and hands, and she was fraught and jumpy. Speaking about the early years of their relationship, Kristen described Greg as someone who had helped her through a difficult period in her life. Quote, but Kristen also described Greg as clingy, overly possessive, and unable to spend time away from her. She said he was resentful of her work and made her feel guilty for attending a professional conference in Milwaukee. Their marriage had become increasingly strained, and the weekend before Greg's death, he was devastated when she told him she wanted a separation. She claimed he became withdrawn, spent much of his time in bed, and had difficulty sleeping.

17:43 Kristen said Greg had taken some of her old prescription medication, including clonazepam, apparently to help him sleep. On the morning of his death, she noticed that his speech was slurred and he sounded drunk. She said she called in sick for him because she believed he needed to rest. Kristen maintained that Greg had taken the medication himself and suggested that his emotional distress over their troubled marriage may have contributed to his death. Kristen said she had gotten the drugs years earlier in Mexico to help her wean herself off of meth. She claimed that Greg had taken the medications from her and hidden them from her. She was clean now, she said. She said that the rose petals and wedding picture in bed with Greg might have been in response to her always asking him to be more romantic and open up to her. She felt guilty about it now. When detectives questioned Kristen about the shredded letter and the love letter discovered by a coworker, She admitted to having an emotional affair with a man at work, but insisted that the relationship had never become physical. I love him, she said matter-of-factly. I do. I love him.

18:51 I love him. He's a very wonderful person. I love his character. I loved him as a person. He's very dear to me. When detectives asked whether she had anything to do with Greg's death, Kristen acknowledged feeling guilty about how she had treated her husband, but denied any involvement. Kristen said that her job gave her access to an array of drugs in the medical examiner's office. She insisted that she hadn't taken any, although she agreed that some drugs appeared to be missing. Kristen was honest about her current state of relapse. Two weeks before Greg's death, she had begun using again. Greg had confronted her and threatened to inform her employer, but she denied it to him.

19:43 She was taken aback when the detectives asked her to submit to a polygraph test. Quote, After the interview was over, the detectives drove with Kristen to her apartment to retrieve her diary. She willingly gave it to them, but after her interview, she hired an attorney and refused any further conversations with the police. We'll be back after a break. Two days later, the detectives went to Michael's apartment to question him. He said that his relationship with Kristen started about a month after he began working at the medical examiner's office. He was adamant that it was not a physical relationship. He admitted that he knew that Kristen was using meth and acknowledged how problematic it was with her job.

20:35 He denied that he and Nicole were separated. We're in counseling. We're still together, he said. Did Michael believe Kristen could be involved in Greg's death? Quote, I don't believe she has the ability to do it. She's a sweet, caring, loving individual. And right up until his death, she was a sweet, caring, loving individual. Could she be fooling me? I guess. After the interview tape had run out, Michael confessed that he and Nicole had separated, not legally, but he was living apart from her. Investigators weren't sure what to think. Some of the evidence supported the possibility of Greg taking his own life, but other details raised questions.

21:15 For one thing, police found no pill bottles, syringes, fentanyl patches, or packaging from the patches. While pills could have been stored in a bag, as Kristen claimed, fentanyl would have required some type of special container, particularly if it had been in a liquid form. Yet investigators found nothing that explained how Greg could have obtained and taken the drug himself. But Jerome DeVillers was sure Kristen had given Greg the deadly fentanyl and called the San Diego Police Department daily for updates to keep the pressure on them. The rose petals raised questions about whether the scene was staged. Kristen claimed she discovered the petals under the covers, but when paramedics arrived, the petals were scattered only around Greg's body on the floor. Combined with the shredded note, diary, and wedding photograph, the unusual scene led detectives to believe that Greg's death had been staged to look like a suicide.

22:09 But could they prove it in court? The rose petals, we talked about this in part one, but that is just such a weird detail that he was on the floor because she had moved him to the floor to perform CPR. And yet the rose petals were only found on the floor, not in the bed. So it's just very strange. Like if she staged the scene, she didn't do a very Good job of it. I don't know how many people would pause to think about the symbolism of what they were doing and leave the picture of them under the bed and the rose petals. It just doesn't seem like something most men would do, especially. Yeah. It seems a little bit like someone would envision a suicide would be like from watching movies or TV shows.

22:49 Yeah. And Kristen said it was because she had complained that Greg wasn't romantic enough, so he wanted to be romantic in his death. Mm-hmm. On November 29th, Kristen was called into a meeting with Lloyd Amborn, the operations administrator for the San Diego County Medical Examiner's Office, and he placed her on administrative leave. Detectives had informed the office about her history of substance abuse, and audits had revealed that drugs were missing from the lab. On December 4th, Kristen was fired after being informed that she had failed to meet the requirements of her probationary employment period. Michael was also placed on administrative leave and fired just days later. In a letter explaining the decision, Michael was criticized for failing to inform his superiors about Kristen's substance abuse issues. Quote, Two days later, News of the firings became public when a local television station reported that both toxicologists had left the medical examiner's office. County officials refused to discuss the circumstances, but police confirmed for the first time that they were investigating whether Greg DeViller's death had actually been a suicide. Kristen declined an on-camera interview.

24:16 Twelve days later, a follow-up report revealed Kristen's affair with Michael Robertson and the doubts Greg's co-workers had expressed about the circumstances of his death. As prosecutor Dan Goldstein became more involved in the investigation, he grew concerned about the handling of Greg's toxicology evidence. Frank Barnhart, a criminalist at the sheriff's crime lab who had examined Greg's stomach contents, was a close friend of Kristen's, the one who had nicknamed her Little Bandit. Goldstein worried that their friendship would compromise the evidence or cast doubt on the findings. He arranged for additional testing at a laboratory in Las Vegas, which confirmed the presence of fentanyl, although the concentrations differed from the original results. Still concerned, Goldstein had the remaining biological samples transferred from the sheriff's crime lab to the police department before sending them to an independent lab in Edmonton, Canada, where there were no ties to San Diego's toxicology community.

25:13 Those tests also detected fentanyl at an even higher concentration in Greg's stomach contents. When Goldstein later received a tip that Greg's samples might have been switched with someone else's, he ordered DNA testing to confirm that they belonged to Greg. So you can tell here that they're being really careful with these samples and recognizing that there might be You know, a conflict or some favoritism. As they should be. And they're a little confused how his stomach contents have so much fentanyl in them. Like it wasn't in his, it was in his bloodstream as well. Right. But, you know, how had he ingested it? So he hadn't, it seems like he probably hadn't injected it and hadn't used the patch, obviously. So he must have taken something orally, right?

25:57 Or it was introduced in different forms. Mm-hmm. Goldstein requested search warrants for four locations, Kristen's apartment, Michael's current apartment, the apartment he had previously shared with his wife, Nicole, and the San Diego County Medical Examiner's Office. The searches were scheduled to take place simultaneously on January 4th, 2001. Concerned that media coverage could jeopardize the investigation, detectives wanted the warrants and their contents sealed. By the end of the investigation, detectives would obtain nine search warrants an unusually high number even for a homicide case. When detectives arrived at Kristen's apartment on January 4th, she answered the door looking wide-eyed and disheveled. Her apartment was in chaos. Kristen asked Detective Lori Agnew if they could speak privately. She led Agnew into her bedroom, where she voluntarily showed her this stash of methamphetamine and a drug pipe. Kristen began crying and begged the detective to allow her to flush the drugs down the toilet. Please don't do this to me, she pleaded. Agnew explained that destroying the evidence is against the law and she couldn't allow that to happen. Kristen was clearly high, her pupils small, like pinpricks. She was arrested for being under the influence of a controlled substance and possessing 0.36 grams of methamphetamine. She called Michael to bail her out, but he refused. Instead, she called her parents, who posted bail and took her home to Claremont. Investigators discovered that since Greg's death, Kristen had called her drug

27:27 dealer 32 times and made 11 ATM withdrawals between $ 300 and $ 400 each. In total, 17 electronic devices were seized from the search warrant, and they contained 137 gigabytes of data, a nearly impossible amount of data to sort through, especially considering the year 2001. How much data is that? It's a lot. I feel like it's hard to put that into perspective sometimes. To give you some idea of how much information that is, think about the Epstein files that were released in 2025. That was nearly 3.5 million pages of documents, 180,000 images, and more than 2,000 videos. All of that adds up to about 195 gigabytes of data. So it's not exact, but, you know, it's a similar amount of data. And in 2001, you know, you didn't have AI to help you sort through those things. So it would have been nearly impossible for prosecutors or Kristen's defense attorney to go through that.

28:27 It's really crazy. I guess I wonder what all this data, like, how did Kristen have so much data on her electronic devices? Well, it wasn't just Kristen. It was Kristen and Michael, and it was also the medical examiner's office. Oh, okay. That makes sense then. Yeah. At the same time detectives were executing the other search warrants, Nicole, Michael's wife, was bewildered by the search of her apartment. She couldn't understand why she was involved in a possible murder investigation. A detective took her aside and explained that Michael's relationship with Kristen was far more serious than he'd led her to believe. Investigators collected Nicole's diary and some pills that she had. At Michael's small apartment, detectives seized his laptop and passport. They also discovered a collection of love letters, cards, and keepsakes from Kristen. Roses appeared repeatedly in their correspondence and gifts, reflecting the romantic symbolism the couple had attached to them. After the search was completed, an officer remained nearby to keep Michael under surveillance. The officer watched as Michael carried a trash bag to a dumpster, discarded it, and drove away. When the officer retrieved the bag, he discovered that it contained mementos of Michael's relationship with Kristen.

29:35 torn into pieces. Michael was then followed to Nicole's apartment. Their surveillance officer witnessed an angry confrontation between the estranged couple. Nicole slapped Michael twice across the face and repeatedly punched him in the chest. Oh boy. Well-deserved. Yeah. In early January, Michael was called in for a formal interview with investigators. He claimed he wasn't sure whether there had been any fentanyl in the lab. He also said he believed his relationship with Kristen was over and that he wanted to repair his marriage. According to Michael, Kristen had recently called and asked to meet for coffee, but he had declined. Do you believe that their relationship is over? The fact that you're asking that makes me think no, but I could believe it. Yeah, I mean, going through all this turmoil, murder investigations... the police telling Michael's wife that his relationship with Kristen was more serious. I could imagine that would put a lot of strain on a relationship.

30:30 I think you're underestimating the depth of their love. Maybe so. Kristen found a new job at a company called Trilink Biotechnologies and moved into a new apartment. I'm a little surprised that Kristen was able to find a new job. Right. In this job, she didn't work with drugs and other substances. I'm not sure exactly what she did, but I know she wasn't working as closely with meth and things like that. Kristen was well-liked at the job and hardworking, but her co-workers had no idea she was being investigated for murder. She quickly became friends with another young woman named Claire Becker. Kristen confided in Claire about her husband's tragic suicide, her history of drug use, and her affair with her former boss, whom she was still seeing. She also revealed that she had recently stopped using birth control because she wanted to have children with Michael. But in May, police returned Michael's passport to him so he could travel to Australia to visit his mother, who was dying of breast cancer. He left and never returned to the United States. Prosecutor Dan Goldstein was getting close to seeking an indictment, but he wanted investigators to search Kristen's new apartment and workplace first.

31:42 He hoped that, with some time having passed, Kristen might have let her guard down and kept evidence that could help their case. During the searches, police recovered a third diary belonging to Kristen. Investigators were beginning to suspect that she was using her journals to manipulate the investigation. In one entry, Kristen expressed outrage that Greg's death was being investigated as a homicide, writing, it's absolutely ludicrous. I am so angry that anybody could even imagine such a horrible idea. She continued to blame Greg for his own death, writing that she believed it had been accidental, but describing his actions as selfish. She also wrote about her unhappy marriage, her love for Michael, and her fear that the investigation could ruin his career. What struck investigators was how carefully the entries seemed to address the very issues that they were examining. Rather than genuine private reflections, they suspected Kristen was writing with an audience in mind, particularly the police.

32:44 Goldstein believed she was trying to shape how others perceived her. The media couldn't get enough of the story. Kristen was young, blonde, attractive, and caught in a love triangle involving her cute husband and her hunky boss. Normally, we try not to talk about people's appearances, but Kristen was a very beautiful young woman, and Greg and Michael were both also attractive. And this is how the media was portraying it too, right? Yeah. She was also a toxicologist with access to deadly drugs, and her husband's body curiously had been found surrounded by rose petals. The scene was eerily reminiscent of the 1999 Oscar-winning movie American Beauty, which featured an iconic scene with Meena Suvari surrounded by red rose petals. Coincidentally, it was one of Kristen's favorite movies, and the connection became such a big part of the story that that she would eventually be dubbed the American Beauty Killer. The evidence against Kristen and Michael continued to mount. An audit of the medical examiner's lab revealed that fentanyl was missing and unaccounted for.

33:52 Investigators also learned that Kristen and Michael had left work early on the afternoon of Greg's death. They claimed they had spent the time talking together at the park, but investigators suspected that this was when Greg had been injected with fentanyl. By late June, Kristen knew investigators were closing in on her. Her attorney had secured a promise from prosecutors that she wouldn't be arrested while he was out of town for the week. Believing she had some breathing room, Kristen went to Mexico to buy drugs and went on a methamphetamine binge. But prosecutors reconsidered their decision and on June 25, 2001, nearly eight months after Greg's death, Kristen was arrested while high on meth. She was taken to the Las Colinas Women's Detention Facility. She was denied bail because she possibly faced the death penalty. Her parents couldn't come to her rescue. In fact, they told the judge they could no longer afford to pay for private counsel for Kristen and requested a public defender. They released the following statement. We love and support our daughter Kristen. We know she's innocent of any wrongdoing. We grieve with the DeVillerses for the loss of their son and our son-in-law Greg.

35:05 and we ask everyone to keep both families in their prayers. Ralph told the reporters outside the courthouse, The Rossums sent out a press release asking friends, family, and local residents to contribute to Kristen's legal fund. Some people were taken aback by the Rossums' plea when they were clearly a well-off family. The editor of the Claremont Courier, Martin Weinberger, said, we didn't understand how they expected the public to pay for it. Once in police custody, Kristen tested positive for methamphetamine and amphetamine. Corporal Erica Frierson said, She was very polite and had good manners. She never disrespected the deputies.

35:48 She was never a problem child at all. In her first days in jail, Kristen cried often and kept to herself. Her arrest stunned her co-workers at Trilink Biotechnologies, where she was well-liked. The company's owner, Richard Hograff, told reporters, It just doesn't fit. We don't believe it. He became one of Kristen's biggest supporters, donating to her legal fund, visiting her in jail, and even offering her an opportunity to finish a scientific paper from behind bars. Constance and Ralph defended Kristen. She was an innocent victim of Greg's selfish decision to end his life, they claimed. Greg was clingy, controlling, with a quick temper. he had become increasingly volatile and desperate to save their marriage. Constance said that they were frightened that Greg might kill himself and Kristen. In addition, they said that during Greg's autopsy, the medical examiner discovered that he had contracted hepatitis B, which is generally contracted from sexual contact or shared drug needles. In an interview with MSNBC, they claimed that Michael Robertson didn't play a factor in Kristen and Greg's marriage. They also blamed Greg for Kristen's relapse, saying that his psychological abuse drove her to it.

37:05 There's a lot to unpack there. Greg did not have hepatitis B, and the fact that they wanted to lie about him when he was so good to their daughter, it shouldn't be baffling to me, but it is. Yeah, it really is. It's really kind of awful. It's gross. I mean, I understand them wanting to support their daughter, but to do it by attacking the victim in this case just seems really gross. The DeVillers filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Kristen and San Diego County, accusing them of hiring Kristen without doing a thorough background search and giving her access to deadly drugs. The lawsuit also mentioned the affair with her boss, who failed to properly supervise her or restrict her access to drugs. Michael was interviewed by the Melbourne Herald Sun and denied fleeing the United States.

37:53 He explained that he wanted to care for his ailing mother and that, after losing his job, his work visa was no longer valid. 48 Hours also traveled to Australia to interview Michael. He denied having anything to do with Greg's death and said he didn't believe Kristen was responsible either. While examining Michael's laptop, investigators discovered a PowerPoint presentation titled The Case of the Crooked Criminalist. It described a real case involving a laboratory employee who had stolen fentanyl from an evidence vault and was eventually caught through hair testing. The presentation was based on a study published by employees of National Medical Services, where Michael had previously worked. Investigators found the similarities to Greg's case striking, particularly because they had also discovered 37 articles about fentanyl in Michael's office.

38:46 So this PowerPoint presentation, was this something that Michael created? No, it was just on his computer as if he had been reading it or studying it. He was doing some research for whatever reason. We'll be back after a break. After six months in jail, Kristen was released on a $ 1. 25 million bond on January 4, 2002. Her parents had hoped to have her home in time for Christmas, but they hadn't been able to arrange the financing in time. Ralph and Constance were both highly educated, accomplished professionals who lived in a million-dollar home and appeared to enjoy a comfortable lifestyle.

39:30 yet they spoke publicly about their financial difficulties and appealed to friends and family for help. Ultimately, they secured the bond by pledging cash, investments, and three homes, including those belonging to Kristen's grandmothers. Seventeen friends had also pledged their assets. Ralph acknowledged the enormous financial risk, telling reporters, if she were to flee, it would ruin Constance and me financially. As Kristen left the jail, she addressed the waiting reporters, I did not harm my husband in any way. I look forward to proving my innocence in court this summer. She then drove away with her parents in their silver Mercedes. While out on bail, Kristen returned to work at TriLink a few days a week, and then I think later she worked there full-time while awaiting trial.

40:16 Wow. So I hate to comment on anyone's finances, but I'm going to. It just surprised me that her parents were, you know, seeking help from other people when it seemed, you don't know what people's financial picture really looks like. And legal expenses are, they're a lot, right? I mean, they can definitely cause someone to go broke, but it does seem like they were fairly well off. They were depending on the public defender pretty quickly in the process. It doesn't feel very right to me. At a pretrial hearing that lasted several days, Ralph claimed that at the last dinner he and Constance had with Kristen and Greg on November 4th, he was, quote, waxing eloquently about the final red rose in the apartment. Ralph also testified that Greg had gotten the fentanyl from his father's storage unit in September 2000. Remember that Greg's dad is a plastic surgeon. It's very strange because Ralph was like, I'm positive that the fentanyl came from the storage unit and I have proof. For some reason, he did have pictures that Greg and Kristen had taken of this storage unit, but there was no pictures of drugs. It was just like some medical equipment.

41:26 Yeah, that's a really weird thing for him to testify under oath about that. And it was the first time that he had ever mentioned this. Kristen's first love, Teddy Maya, was called as a witness. When asked how he felt about Kristen being charged with murder, he said, Well, I was shocked. My initial reaction was certainly, yeah, she did it. and most of the people that knew her had the same reaction. It was just such a fantastic story. In fact, I don't know any of her friends who actually didn't think that she'd done it. I mean, she lied so well. It was like she really believed her own lies. The issue of whether or not Kristen's police interview was admissible was addressed, and the judge ruled that it could be, and he also ruled that there was enough evidence to move forward with a trial. On the way out of the hearing, Constance and Ralph talked to the media. When asked if they thought Kristen had lied to them about anything, they were emphatic. No, Greg's temper was out of control, and Kristen was afraid to leave. Quote, It's a cycle of abuse. Women stay too long, Constance said. Kristen's ability was as a ballet dancer, not an actress, Ralph quipped.

42:36 So again, this drives me crazy that they're accusing Greg of domestic violence. Yeah. So many people are dealing with real abuse every day, and it's so unfair to Greg, and it does a disservice to people who have genuinely experienced domestic violence. Yeah, totally. Kristen's trial was originally scheduled for June 2002, but was postponed until October to give both sides more time to review the extensive evidence and prepare their cases. The defense requested a venue change out of San Diego County because of the extensive media coverage it was receiving, but the judge denied the request. On October 2nd, just two days before jury selection was scheduled to begin, prosecutors revealed a devastating piece of evidence to Kristen's defense attorneys. While reviewing nearly a year's worth of Kristen's financial records, a paralegal discovered a receipt from Vons, a supermarket near Kristen's apartment.

43:30 At 12.41 p.m. on the day Greg died, Kristen had purchased nighttime cold medicine, four cans of soup, a cigarette lighter, and a single rose with baby's breath of undetermined color. The rose was significant, of course, because Greg had been found with rose petals scattered around his body. Kristen's attorneys were stunned by the discovery. They immediately called her to ask why she hadn't told them about the purchase, but Kristen said she couldn't remember buying the items and offered no explanation. Before they could meet to discuss the discovery, paramedics were called to Kristen's hotel room. They found her lying face down in the bed, clutching a teddy bear. She was taken to the hospital and treated for anxiety.

44:10 She later denied that the incident was connected to the receipt, saying that she'd been experiencing panic attacks and muscle spasms because the trial was about to begin. Investigators uncovered records showing that Kristen had gone shopping on the day Greg died, she withdrew $ 240 from an ATM, made purchases at several stores, filled her car with gas twice, and spent $ 111 at Victoria's Secret. So Ralph and Constance had made a big deal out of It was just days before Greg's death. They made a big deal about there was one rose left in Kristen's birthday roses. Greg had gifted her a dozen or two dozen long stem red roses. And they had said that Greg at dinner waxed poetically about how there was one surviving red rose. So they were kind of clinging to that romantic idea about Greg having surrounded the roses. But then they find this rose that Kristen had purchased.

45:06 Yeah, interesting. Interesting. Jury selection began on October 4, 2002. Prosecutors decided not to seek the death penalty. The media requested permission to bring cameras into the courtroom, knowing Kristen Rossum's trial would attract a large audience. Judge Thompson denied the request, issuing a gag order, making Kristen and her parents' daily arrival at the courthouse an even bigger spectacle, as reporters and photographers gathered outside to catch a glimpse of her. Prosecutor Dan Goldstein took four hours to deliver his opening statement. He painted Kristen as a manipulative liar, an attention-seeking drug addict willing to lie to protect her carefully managed image.

45:46 According to Goldstein, Kristen had killed Greg to protect two relationships, her addiction to methamphetamine and her affair with her boss, Michael Robertson. He argued that Michael had enabled Kristen's drug use, helped her conceal the theft of drugs from the medical examiner's office, and participated in covering up Greg's death. There was no evidence that Greg had taken his own life. Greg had helped Kristen overcome her drug addiction. Goldstein emphasized that Greg himself was so opposed to drugs that he wouldn't even take an aspirin. Although Michael didn't appear in court, Goldstein told jurors that his involvement was central to the case, describing how he had grown increasingly impatient for Kristen to leave her husband. In contrast to the prosecution's aggressive approach, Deputy Public Defender Alex Lobig, Kristen's defense attorney, delivered a calm, measured opening statement, urging jurors to keep an open mind.

46:39 He portrayed Kristen as a young woman who had made mistakes, including struggling with drug addiction and having an affair, but argued that neither made her a murderer. Lobig acknowledged that Kristen had fallen out of love with Greg and was deeply involved with Michael Robertson. but he argued that she had no reason to kill her husband. The affair was widely known at work, and Kristen had already told Greg that she wanted to separate. Greg was devastated by the breakdown of his marriage and had taken his own life. Lobig promised that jurors would hear genuine panic and desperation in Kristen's 911 call. He challenged the prosecution's physical evidence, arguing that investigators couldn't establish how Greg had ingested the fentanyl or prove that Kristen had stolen it from the lab, where security was notoriously lax. He pointed to the cups of liquid left behind in the bedroom, their contents never tested.

47:29 Loeb included that while Kristen had no motive to murder Greg, he had repeatedly told her that he couldn't live without her. The defense believed that faced with losing his wife, Greg had followed through on those words. The prosecution alleged that Kristen used fentanyl patches to kill Greg. Russ Loeb had managed the medical examiner's office before Michael Robertson. He explained that drugs seized from crime scenes were kept in storage lockers and eventually destroyed. After Greg's death, he personally performed an audit and discovered that 15 fentanyl patches were missing, as well as a vial of fentanyl, along with vials of methamphetamine and amphetamines that Kristen had recorded in a log.

48:10 Oxycontin and clonazepam pills were also missing. Lowe admitted, under a cross-examination, that in his 32 years in the office, This was the first time he remembered an audit. Wow. Isn't that bananas? The whole thing is bananas that they just seem so lax with all this stuff. And I still think about the fact that they hired her without doing a drug test or without doing a background check. It just seems really poorly managed. If I were a defense attorney, I would say, of course drugs were missing. If everyone knew that it was never audited and, you know, there's cocaine and marijuana. I'm sure it was a common problem. Dr. Brian Blackburn, who performed Greg's autopsy, testified that he was puzzled by the amount of fentanyl found in Greg's stomach. He couldn't determine how the drug had gotten there, although he acknowledged that Greg could have ingested it mixed with water. Blackburn described three puncture marks on Greg's arm and one in his groin, where blood had been drawn at the hospital.

49:10 He testified that Greg did not have hepatitis, contrary to the Rossum's earlier claim. and could not establish exactly how the fentanyl had been administered or the precedents. dose. Based on lividity, the settling of blood in the body after death, and other findings, he believed Greg may have been comatose for as long as 12 hours before he died. Another expert testified that Greg had extraordinarily high levels of fentanyl in his body, higher than he had ever encountered. He noted that fentanyl levels in the blood can rise by approximately 20% after death, but even accounting for that, the amounts were staggering. Based on the findings, he believed Greg may have received fentanyl in multiple forms, possibly through ingestion, injection, and or skin patches. Each method acts at a different speed, raising the possibility that Greg had been given multiple doses over an extended period. The effects would have been compounded by the clonazepam and oxycodone in his system. He also explained that fentanyl could be dissolved in liquid and consumed, and that removing a fentanyl patch typically leaves no visible mark on the skin. A social worker testified that when she took Kristen to see Greg's dead body, she whispered, I'm sorry, to him. On day nine of the trial, as court was ending for the day, Dan Goldstein addressed something that had been gnawing at him. Throughout the trial, Kristen had been visibly reacting to testimony, shaking her head,

50:41 mouthing denials, and occasionally saying things aloud like, She had also been seen smiling at jurors. Judge Thompson confirmed that he had noticed the behavior himself. He said, Yes, Your Honor, Kristen said. You are smiling at jurors. It's absolute bullshit. I think it's really hurting you. I don't think they're buying it for a second. It's up to you. You are to have no contact with any witnesses one way or the other. As the judge rose from his bench to depart for his chambers, Kristen, with tears shining in her eyes, stood defiantly, her hands on her hips, and said, I didn't do anything wrong. With that, Judge Thompson lost his temper. Don't sit there and tell me you're not doing it. I'm not a fucking idiot. The outburst quickly made the news. The following morning, Thompson apologized for his language but stood by his warning, telling the courtroom that Kristen's behavior had been inappropriate and needed to stop.

51:43 I've never been a defendant before, but I know you do not talk back to the judge. No, you certainly don't. Several of Kristen's friends, former co-workers, and a college professor testified on her behalf, offering glowing descriptions of her as kind, friendly, and hardworking. Prosecutors challenged their accounts by highlighting Kristen's dishonesty and questioning how well they really knew her. But some of her supporters remained unwavering, insisting that nothing they had learned had changed their opinion of her. Next up was Constance Rossum. She produced records showing that she and Ralph had provided Kristen and Greg with nearly $ 75, 000 in financial support over the years, covering expenses such as rent, tuition, and furniture. Constance portrayed Greg as increasingly angry and emotionally unstable as his marriage deteriorated.

52:35 She testified that Kristen had repeatedly expressed doubts about the relationship and that she and Ralph had offered to help their daughter move out. During cross-examination, prosecutors challenged Constance's credibility, confronting her with police reports that contradicted her testimony about Kristen's troubled past. They questioned her about misleading statements she had made to the media about Greg, including an unfounded claim that he had hepatitis B. Throughout her testimony, Constance remained fiercely defensive of her daughter, just as she had been during Kristen's earlier struggles with drug addiction. Even when confronted with contradictory evidence, she was reluctant to acknowledge anything that reflected poorly on Kristen. When she tried to blame Kristen's friends for her drug use, her attorney said, Let's try not to blame everybody else here. Constance recalled that during their final dinner together, Greg had made a strange comment about a single rose in the apartment, saying, Of all the roses, that single rose survived. She described his behavior that evening as strange and frightening. A fentanyl expert testified that it might be possible to disguise the drug's bitter taste by mixing it with something like soup or cough syrup. However, he couldn't determine how Greg had taken the fentanyl. When Ralph Rossum took the stand, it was as if he and Constance had rehearsed their testimony together.

53:58 He used the same defensive approach, often repeating her exact words and descriptions of Greg's behavior. But prosecutors caught Ralph in a significant contradiction. Like Constance, he testified that Greg had made a strange, dramatic comment about a single surviving rose shortly before his death. However, when investigators played a recording of Ralph's interview from the morning after Greg died, his account was quite different. He had described their final dinner as pleasant and hadn't mentioned Greg behaving strangely. More importantly, he had originally attributed the comment about the roses to Kristen, not Greg. Ralph struggled to explain the discrepancies, insisting that he had been exhausted when police interviewed him and hadn't realized they were conducting a criminal investigation. Ralph also defended Kristen against allegations about her drug use insisting that she hadn't used drugs since high school. He said that she had no motive and said that Greg had taken his own life after he had learned of her affair.

54:59 Ralph and Constance were both trying to portray Greg as unhinged at the last dinner that they had together, and they were talking about how he was so angry and it wasn't like him, but they had to tell him to quiet down twice at the dinner, and it was just very strange. Yeah, it is, and the fact that Ralph portrayed the dinner to police right afterwards. Yeah, we had a nice evening. Which you would think his memory at that point would be a little better than it would be later on. Something else that happened that I didn't mention was they claimed that they were so worried about Greg's behavior that they had talked about buying a condo for Kristen in the area. And the next morning, they had saved the night in a hotel. And the next morning, they had gone looking at some real estate in the area. And the realtor actually testified and said that they were looking at higher-end properties, and they had mentioned when they were there that it was for their retirement, and they were in a good mood, but they portrayed it as they were so worried about Kristen and Greg that they were looking for a place for her.

56:04 Yeah, interesting. Kristen testified in her own defense for eight hours over two days. She acknowledged the affair with Michael Robertson and admitted that she had relapsed into methamphetamine use shortly before Greg's death. She maintained that she had been planning to leave her husband, not kill him. Lobig asked, By the time Greg passed away, did you love Michael Robertson so much that you intended to take your husband's life so that you could have Robertson? Kristen replied, Absolutely not. That's what divorce is for. When Prosecutor Goldstein began cross-examining Kristen, he immediately went on the offensive. Have you taken any drugs within the past 96 hours?

56:45 He asked. Kristen admitted that she had taken a prescription sleeping pill the previous night and half a Xanax that morning to calm her nerves. Both medications had been prescribed by her doctor. Over the next two days, he confronted her with a long history of dishonesty, including lies she had told her husband, her parents, and investigators. Kristen admitted that she had lied to Greg about her drug use and deliberately misled him about medications she was taking. She also acknowledged that she had initially lied to Detective Agnew about the nature of her relationship with Michael Robertson. When confronted with inconsistencies, she often explained that she had been embarrassed or ashamed. Goldstein also questioned why Kristen hadn't sought medical help for Greg earlier, particularly after he supposedly admitted taking prescription drugs and she had noticed his labored breathing. Kristen insisted that she believed he was improving. I'm sorry I didn't call, she testified.

57:48 I wish every day that I had. Then there was the rose. Kristen testified that the rose that she had purchased at Vons on the day Greg died was yellow, with peach-colored tips, and that she had bought it for Michael. But she acknowledged that she had never told investigators about the purchase. When Goldstein challenged how anyone could verify the rose's color, Kristen conceded that they couldn't. Throughout her testimony, Kristen maintained that she hadn't killed Greg or conspired with Michael to do so. We'll be back after a break.

58:28 Closing arguments began on November 6, 2002, the second anniversary of Greg's untimely death. Prosecutor Dan Goldstein took nearly an entire day to make his case. He reminded jurors of the prosecution's central theory. Kristen had killed Greg to prevent him from exposing her affair with Michael Robertson and her relapse into drug use. Goldstein acknowledged that prosecutors couldn't establish exactly how Kristen had administered the fentanyl. She could have used patches, a syringe, or something Greg ate or drank. Who knows, he said. She's the expert. Goldstein also argued that both families have suffered at the hands of the defendant and her narcissism and her self-sacrifice behavior. Goldstein argued that Greg had already been heavily drugged the night before his death when Kristen reported hearing him snoring and breathing loudly.

59:20 By the following morning, he believed that Greg was unconscious and dying, which explained why Kristen felt comfortable calling her drug dealer from home the first time that she'd ever done so. He challenged Kristen's account of the day Greg died, arguing that Greg was too incapacitated to have eaten lunch with her, and he maintained that Kristen had staged the bedroom to suggest suicide, arranging rose petals around Greg's body and placing the wedding photograph nearby. Goldstein returned repeatedly to Kristen's dishonesty, arguing that her conflicting explanations and admitted lies made her testimony impossible to trust. He accused Michael Robertson of participating in the murder, pointing toward the empty chair beside Kristen's attorneys and suggesting that Michael might as well have been sitting there beside her. In closing, Goldstein argued that Greg's hatred of drugs had ultimately cost him his life.

1:00:12 Kristen's lies, he said to jurors, was tantamount to a confession. The defendant is guilty of murder, he said. The following morning, defense attorney Alex Lobig delivered his closing argument, Loebig urged jurors not to confuse Kristen's drug addiction, infidelity, and dishonesty with evidence of murder. He acknowledged her shortcomings but argued that when Kristen found herself in trouble, her tendency was to run away, not resort to violence. He reminded jurors that Kristen had already been looking for an apartment and had told several people she intended to leave Greg. Her affair with Michael Robertson was hardly a secret and she had no reason to kill her husband to pursue the relationship.

1:00:54 Lobig also challenged the investigation, particularly the failure to test the liquid found in the cups near Greg's bed. He argued that investigators had missed an opportunity to determine whether Greg had consumed fentanyl himself. He also pointed to the lax security at the medical examiner's office, arguing that the prosecutors couldn't establish who had taken the missing drugs. As for the prosecution's suggestion that Kristen and Michael had conspired to murder Greg... Lobig questioned why two people with extensive knowledge of toxicology would have chosen a drug that could be detected during an autopsy. He maintained that Greg had been devastated by the breakdown of his marriage and could have taken his own life. There is reasonable doubt from beginning to end in this case, he told the jury, hoping that he'd made his case. In the prosecution's final rebuttal, jurors were asked to consider how many coincidences they'd have to accept to believe that Greg had taken his own life.

1:01:51 He would have needed to obtain fentanyl without anyone knowing, while the same drug was missing from Kristen's workplace, where her lover happened to be a fentanyl expert. And somehow, Greg would have had to have arranged the rose petals and wedding photograph around himself before dying. On November 12th, on what would have been Greg DeViller's 29th birthday, the jury of five women and seven men reached a verdict after eight hours of deliberations spread over three days. As everyone walked into the courtroom, Kristen appeared red-eyed and panicked, her parents on either side of her, each held one of her hands while her aunt gently rubbed her back. The jurors filed into the jury box, their expressions somber.

1:02:32 They refused to make eye contact with the defendant. Kristen Rossum, who had turned just 26 during the trial, was found guilty of first-degree murder with special circumstances. Tears filled Kristen's eyes as she searched the faces of the jurors, looking for any sign of compassion. There was none. As a bailiff placed her in handcuffs and led her from the courtroom, Kristen turned for one last pleading look at her parents. They could only watch helplessly as their daughter was taken away. The judge reminded everyone present that the gag order remained in effect. Sentencing took place a month later. Kristen chose not to speak, but Constance and Ralph released a statement on behalf of their family. We are horrified by the verdict and the sentence. Our innocent daughter has been wrongly convicted.

1:03:18 We know Kristen did not murder Greg. We understand there are solid grounds for appeal and intend to pursue them vigorously. Please keep us all in your prayers. Members of the DeVillers family also delivered statements. Eve was unable to attend, so his son Bertrand read his statement aloud. You show no remorse and ask for no repentance for any of your actions. You cried fake tears for Greg and real tears only for yourself. On the outside, you are a smart, beautiful young woman. On the inside, you are a lying, calculating, manipulating person that cares only about herself. After reading his father's statement, Bertrand addressed Kristen in his own words, You have your own personal proof of his abilities for he saved you from the deepest valley of despair and lifted you to the highest peak of success that you will ever attain. When you reached the top, your reward for him was to push him off the cliff when he wasn't looking. Greg's example to you was to love and trust you with all that he was, and you used that against him. Kristen wept as the judge sentenced her to life in prison without the possibility of parole. He denied her request to remain free while her appeals were pending.

1:04:30 After the hearing, Prosecutor Goldstein, who had since been elected to a judgeship, praised Greg's brother Jerome for his determination to uncover the truth. Jerome DeVillers is a good human being. He knew his brother better than anybody else. He got the ball rolling. Jerome was later honored with San Diego County's Citizen of Courage Award. Goldstein said that Michael Robertson could face charges in extradition in the future. The investigation into his possible involvement in Greg's murder was ongoing. Detectives had even traveled to Australia in hopes of interviewing him, but Michael refused to speak with them. Jurors later explained that they simply hadn't believed Kristen. Some said that if Michael had been on trial alongside her, that they would have found him guilty too. In 2003, a man named John Vernell came forward with a story that Kristen's attorneys believe could help her case. John's wife was a minister at a small church in Chula Vista. Their home phone number was posted outside the church for anyone seeking spiritual guidance, and John sometimes answered the calls when his wife wasn't available.

1:05:35 He recalled speaking with the distraught man who called three days in a row, upset that his wife was having an affair with someone at work. Initially, the caller talked about shooting his wife's lover, but his questions eventually turned to suicide and whether someone who took their own life would go to heaven. During one conversation, the man asked, what if I just throw up a handful of rose petals and do myself in? On his final call, the man left a message saying he decided what he was going to do. Brunel never heard from him again. After learning about Kristen's case, Varnell became convinced that the mysterious caller had been Greg DeVillers. But there were significant problems with his account. He couldn't remember when the calls occurred, and the caller had never identified himself. And Varnell may have already seen some news coverage mentioning the rose petals.

1:06:24 Varnell shared his story with a young woman who he met outside a donut shop in Chula Vista because he thought that she resembled Kristen. she encouraged him to contact Kristen's attorneys. Two attorneys later visited his home and took statements from him and his wife. Those statements became part of a petition Kristen's appellate attorney filed in October 2003 seeking a new trial. What do you think of that story? Seems a little weak, but I understand if you're a defense attorney, you're going to latch on to whatever you can. Yeah, I think the one thing that strikes me about this story is that Whoever the man was that was calling said that he was thinking about shooting the lover, and I don't think Greg would do that. He wasn't a violent person. Following Kristen's conviction, Michael Robertson spoke to the San Diego Union Tribune from Australia. Quote, Michael maintained that he had no involvement in Greg's death and still struggled to believe that Kristen could have murdered her husband.

1:07:27 He dismissed the fentanyl research found among his belongings as part of his job and complained that prosecutors had portrayed him as a co-conspirator without giving him an opportunity to defend himself. He questioned whether the extensive publicity would allow him to receive a fair trial in San Diego if he were ever to return and be charged. He and his wife Nicole divorced in 2001. He has complained of being in legal limbo and that his career was being stymied. Years later, Michael was involved in another high-profile murder case in his native Australia. In 2014, he testified as an expert witness for the defense of Jared Baden-Clay, a Brisbane real estate agent accused of murdering his wife, Allison. You covered that case a while back.

1:08:13 Yeah. It was a really interesting case. Robertson testified about the potential effects of Allison's antidepressant medication, including a condition known as serotonin syndrome. which can cause confusion and unusual behavior. Do you remember this part? Um, vaguely. It was quite a while ago, though. The defense suggested that Allison's medication might have contributed to her death, but the jury ultimately found Jared guilty of murder. For years, Michael Robertson appeared to have escaped any legal consequences for his possible involvement in Greg's death. But in 2013, journalist Caitlin Rother, author of Poisoned Love, uncovered a surprising development after receiving a tip. In November 2006, San Diego prosecutors had quietly filed a felony conspiracy charge against Michael and obtained a warrant for his arrest. He was accused of conspiring with Kristen to obstruct the investigation into Greg's murder.

1:09:11 The complaint outlined 77 alleged acts, including misleading investigators, about their relationship. It also revealed that Michael and Kristen exchanged 259 phone calls in the six weeks after Greg's death. Even after Michael told investigators they were no longer in contact, another 59 calls passed between them. Prosecutors never sought Michael's extradition from Australia, where he continues working as a forensic toxicologist. In May 2026, The Australian reported that the arrest warrant was still active nearly 20 years after it had been issued. Soon after Kristen entered prison, Constance joined the Inmate Family Council, a group that met regularly with prison officials to advocate for inmates and their families. Under her leadership, the council pushed for improvements in medical care, visiting hours, and other prison conditions. Constance was particularly critical of the medical care inmates received, arguing that their needs weren't being adequately addressed.

1:10:09 Constance and Ralph both also served on the Statewide Inmate Family Council of California. During an appearance on 48 Hours, Kristen appeared on camera from jail. She said, Greg was my angel because he saved me. But after about a year into our marriage, Greg became very, very clingy to me. She said that she was only 23 at the time and she craved her independence. On 48 Hours, Constance read a letter Kristen had written her from prison. Quote, I'm able to tolerate this injustice because I know we have truth on our side and I know that each day that passes is one closer to the day I can return home. Kristen told her parents how much she loved and missed them, expressing confidence that they would eventually be reunited outside of prison. Kristen has since joined a journalism group for prisoners. It's called the CCWF Paper Trail, a newspaper written by incarcerated women at the Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla. According to Redditors, she has received two advanced degrees since her incarceration. All of Kristen's appeals have failed. Interestingly, in the summer of 2003, Kristen and Scott Peterson were involved in a bizarre prison romance.

1:11:18 What? According to John Glatt, author of Deadly American Beauty, Scott found hope in Kristen's letters. Oh my goodness. I wish I had more information about that, but I have none. I did not see that one coming. Yeah. Greg's mother, Marie de Villers, died of respiratory failure in August 2003. She had been frail for much of her life, but her family said she was never quite the same after losing Greg. In 2006, in the wrongful death lawsuit, a jury awarded the DeVillers family $ 6 million in damages and $ 100 million in punitive damages against Kristen Rossum to ensure that she would never be able to profit from her life story. They found Kristen was 75% responsible and San Diego County 25%, but in 2007, an appeals court overturned.

1:11:59 The $ 1. 5 million judgment against San Diego County, ruling that the county was could not be held legally responsible for Kristen's actions. After her conviction, the Rossums had sold the rights to a Hollywood producer for an undisclosed sum, and then the DeVillers family did the same. I'm really surprised that they ruled that the county could not be held legally responsible, because it does seem like there was some neglect on their part, and I'm guessing that they're really not going to be able to collect any money from Kristen. Of course not. Right, whereas they could have collected money from the county, and it seems like they should be entitled to that. Yeah. I was surprised that they sold the rights to Kristen's life. I don't think anything has been done as far as I could find. There haven't been any movies or anything done.

1:12:49 Yeah, that is a little surprising, too. Greg's brother Jerome spoke about the lasting impact of Greg's death. Quote, It's still not over. It made me a different person. I was naively trusting of people. I don't think I'm still like that anymore. I don't think things happen for a reason anymore. This week would have been Greg's 53rd birthday. Throughout the story, Greg has sometimes been overshadowed by the circumstances of his death and the woman convicted of killing him. But he deserves to be remembered for the life he lived. Greg was the rock of his family. He was kind, strong, and a source of stability for his younger brothers, often stepping into the parental role when their own parents couldn't. He was also a loving and supportive husband who helped Kristen rebuild her life and encouraged her to pursue her education and career. Greg's family lost someone irreplaceable and his absence is still felt. Greg's ashes were scattered around Duck Lake in the Mammoth Lakes area of California, not far from Yosemite National Park. It was a place where he'd made happy memories hiking and camping with his brothers. Rest in peace, Greg. I bet you know what my first question is going to be. How involved do you think Michael was?

1:13:59 It's a great question. I guess I haven't heard anything that directly supports his guilt in this. Right. There's this warrant for his arrest and there's 77 counts and it's sealed. So we don't know all of the things that. Are in it. It sounds like a lot of that may be around obstructing the investigation and obstructing justice and less about his actual involvement in the murder. I haven't heard anything in the story that says that he, you know, that is real hard evidence that he was involved. I have a feeling, though, there's evidence that we haven't heard against him. Yeah, very well. Could be. So I said that he hasn't returned to the United States. I don't believe he has, but it's possible he's been back.

1:14:40 But I would, I'm not sure if he would be, depending where he entered the United States, whether he'd be arrested or not. I would think so. I guess I'm a little surprised they haven't extradited him or put in place the, you know, process to start that. Well, if it were murder, maybe, but I think he's listed as a conspirator. He does have a high profile career in Australia, though. I was reviewing different videos of him and I found a video from 60 Minutes Australia when he was on a panel with people from the Aaron Patterson mushroom case. Yeah, that's really wild. And also you mentioned the Jared Baden Clay case. And yeah, it's really interesting that someone who is suspected of potentially being involved in a murder is testifying in some of these cases.

1:15:23 And for what he was fired for. Right. You know, he has rebuilt himself. Yeah. Do you believe that Kristen is guilty? I do. Yes. I really think she. 100%. I do think... I was not surprised that the jury came back with guilty, but I wouldn't have been shocked if they came back with not guilty because the evidence was fairly circumstantial, but I think there was enough circumstantial evidence that he didn't do it himself, either accidentally or or intentionally. And so there's no other possibility other than that she did it. Do you think had we not had that evidence about the rose that she'd purchased at the grocery store? For me, that was the evidence that I was like, well, that's... That. Seemed pretty important.

1:16:04 Yeah. I think even without that, potentially, you know, they would have found her guilty anyway, but that certainly would have helped seal the deal, I think. Do you feel like the fentanyl evidence was the most damning because the patches were missing? Yeah, I think overall she had the opportunity. She had access to the drugs in the lab. She had access to him. And like I said before, I don't think there was any evidence to show that he did this to himself or that he accidentally overdosed. So that leaves her. What do you think her motive was? That is a great question. I was thinking about that. And I'm really not sure because they had no kids together.

1:16:44 It doesn't sound like there was a financial motive involved. Even her parents would forgive her for anything. They, of course, wouldn't have wanted her to get divorced, but I feel like they would have forgiven that. Yeah, and the affair was kind of an open secret, so why kill him instead of just getting a divorce? But then if you go back to her childhood and the way she was brought up, she was taught to maintain her image at any cost. So you could maybe point to that. Maybe. I mean, it certainly doesn't seem like something, you know, strong enough to murder someone over. But yeah, that could be it. Was it a mistake to have her testify? Because her whole life from like age, you know, 16 on, she had so many lies that she had told. So it would be really hard to ask a jury to believe anything that she said. So do you think it was a mistake to have her testify?

1:17:37 I kind of do. I don't know how it would have helped her cause in this case. So yeah, I really do think it was probably a mistake. Would it have made a difference if she hadn't testified? I doubt it. This is such a tragic story, in my opinion, because Kristen had so much promise and she had such a bright future ahead of her. She was brilliant. And Greg, too, such a great guy. Everyone loved him and he was doing really well in his career, too. Do you think if Kristen would have had in-depth, inpatient treatment that things would have ended differently? It seemed like her parents never realized how severe her dependence on drugs was. She did hide it really well. Yeah. I mean, as we talked about, we don't really know what her motive was for killing him. But certainly if she was not on drugs and was able to clean herself up and get past that, then I can't imagine that she would have killed him. Right. But it's really, yeah, it's just hard. I keep going back to the lack of motive or the lack of an understandable motive. Like, why did she do this?

1:18:38 Whether Michael was involved or not, it seems like he would have been a voice of reason to her and been like, yeah, just leave your husband. We don't have to kill him. right there's no reason for michael to although as christian's boss he had some culpability and if greg went to the authorities and said you know michael was covering up for christian yeah and that could have caused some damage to his career as well yeah i suppose part of me thinks that the rossums thought that drug addiction was like um Kind of something that happened to people of lower status. Something to be ashamed of. Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking, too. You know, this kind of thing wouldn't happen to us because Kristen's so smart that, you know, she just likes to use drugs every now and then. You know, she's not dependent on them.

1:19:22 Yeah, they seem to be in denial quite a few times about her history of drug abuse. Well, drug abuse doesn't discriminate. It can happen to any family for any reason, no matter how much love there is or any circumstances, it can happen to anyone. That was a hard conversation to have about addiction. I hope that it came across with empathy because I know so many families are struggling with drugs or alcohol. And I know that not everyone goes on to murder their spouse, but It's a hard thing to talk about, and a lot of us have experience with it. It's devastating for a lot of families.

1:20:04 Recently, when we went on a road trip, I read to you from a book called The Many Lives of Mama Love. It's a nonfiction book about a woman's struggles with addiction, and she ended up going to prison. A lot of the book is about her life in prison, which was really interesting. I finished the book. I'm almost done. You're almost done. So you can speak to it. Yeah. But it struck me as insane how many drugs are in prison. And I'm thinking about Kristen, who really loves drugs if she is clean in prison. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking right back to that book that we read and the fact that, yeah, she was, you know, it was only a matter of days after she got into prison that all of a sudden it was like she had the opportunity to use drugs in prison if she wanted to.

1:20:52 And It does seem like it's prevalent. So, yeah, I wonder about Kristen also. Mama Love, she relapsed, I think, a few times. A few times, yeah. And I don't want to give too much of the book away. But, yeah, it's always there, that craving for drugs. And I know that Kristen has, you know, earned degrees, but that doesn't mean that. But she was always high functioning even before she went into prison as well, right? So that doesn't mean she, you know, might not be using. Have you read anything good lately? Well, I'm in the middle of reading a book called The Gales of November, which is a nonfiction book about the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, which took place almost 51 years ago, probably at the time this episode drops, by John U. Bacon. I think you might.

1:21:37 Have mentioned this on a previous episode, actually. It's really well written, really interesting. I really love a good nonfiction book, and it paints this picture of life on a freighter in the Great Lakes, and it's really compelling. And you're almost done with it? No, I'm about halfway done. I've been a little slow lately because there's so many sports on TV right now. The World Series, football, you know, it's hard to find time to fit it all in. Right. How about you? Have you read anything good? I've been pretty busy, but I read a book called Jar of Hearts by Jennifer Hiller. It was dark, but I liked it because it's still spooky season. And I also read a book called Count My Lies that was a little suspense thriller about And I started Whistler by Ann Patchett. And so far, that's really good.

1:22:22 Speaking of spooky stories, we had talked on a couple of episodes ago about the story of the woman with the green ribbon, where the ribbon is around her neck all the time. Somebody actually, Laura on Spotify, made a comment that Carmen Maria Machado rewrote a version of that as a feminist text. It's called The Husband Stitch. It's in a book called... Her Body and Other Parties. So it's a short story in that book. So sounds interesting. She made a point of saying it's not for kids. So if you're listening and you're a kid, don't read that book. I wanted to mention that I give my condolences to any single women out there. I started watching Love is Blind.

1:23:07 I think I'm only like half an hour into episode one and I'm like, holy cow, the dating poll. It's It's kind of grim. It's tough out there, isn't it? Yeah, it's tough out there. I haven't watched every season of Love is Blind, but I love it so much. And that is probably like my favorite kind of show, but your least favorite kind of show. True. So yeah, it's good that you have football and baseball and all the other things that you watch. It's good that you've got that too. I have one more thing I wanted to mention before we go. We took a little break and I had dinner a little while ago. I made a BLT. You were kind enough to make bacon, and I just want to say, I forgot to put lettuce on it, and I didn't miss it at all. I don't know why lettuce has top billing in a BLT.

1:23:51 Bacon has the top billing. It's not called a lettuce bacon tomato sandwich. I know, but it's still one of the top three in the whole sandwich, and I just don't think It's necessary. It was kind of a revelation to me. I really hadn't ever thought of that before. So sometimes I make it and I chop up the lettuce and then I mix the lettuce with mayonnaise. And then you put like the mayonnaise-y lettuce and then the lettuce doesn't fall off. Yeah, that's a pretty good idea. And you also used avocado. I did. That helps. And did you also use cheese? I did. Yeah. But I still don't think I would have missed the lettuce even without the avocado and cheese. So you just forgot. I saw you take lettuce out of the fridge. I took it out of the fridge and I completely forgot to put it in.

1:24:32 Wow. All right. But the Panera bread, it's like farmhouse white or something. It really is the best sandwich. It's a very good bread. Or avocado toast bread. Yeah. All right. Well, you have wasted another hour listening to Love, Marry, Kill. Closer to an hour and a half, actually. We have been making some longer episodes lately. Find us on social media or YouTube. Send us an email at lovemerrykill at gmail.com. And consider supporting us on Patreon. Go to patreon.com slash lovemerrykill. For just $ 5 a month, you get early ad-free access plus a monthly bonus episode. Until next time. Don't kill your wife. And don't kill your husband.

1:25:19 Thank you. Thank you.