Laci and Scott Peterson - Part 2

0:00 Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to love, Mary kill Hi Tina. Oh, hey, Rich, are you feeling better? I feel so much better. That was the loudest perfect I have ever heard from you. You have no proof. I am only you have no I did not regret, as I was not recording at the time, but I can. Hey, Merry Christmas, testify Merry Christmas, Mary, Chris, Ry Christmas listeners. Yeah, if you're listening to this on Christmas Day, Merry Christmas or if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas. If not, happy Holidays. That was Did you like that song? That's my probably my favorite Christmas song. Well, I wouldn't know because you didn't actually play it for me, you know it though it's a great song. It is a great song. We were going to attempt to make a Merry Christmas playlist for our listeners, and hopefully we'll still get to it. It might not be until Christmas Day, but are we not going to do that? Maybe we're just first love is music, and I think it. Yeah, I think

1:30 you would enjoy doing that. It really would be for me and you. All right, let's do it then, all right, we're going to do it. All right, We're going to really say how are our listeners going to find it? We'll tell them on our social media? Gotcha? Okay? Cool? The Love Mary Kill Holiday playlist. So we've had more Christmases together than a part at this point in our life. Have we really? Wow? We definitely have. Definitely have. You definitely have, but have I? Yeah, I'm older than you, so I mean not like that, Mitchell. I think you have also had more? Yes, you have? I can, I can. I did the you did the fast math. I did fast math in my head. Yes. Cool, We've had a lot of nice Christmas we have. I think we do it. I love our Christmases together with our family. Yeah, pretty low key usually, but I we don't usually. Yeah, we haven't traveled in a long time.

2:19 No, I just use the opportunity to puzzle, sit around and do nothing for like a week. Think. Yeah, and it is nice because you do have the week off, but this year probably gonna be doing a little podcasting on our on your week off. Yeah, Yeah, it's okay. I love that. What are some of your favorite things your traditions. Well, I love we always watch It's a Wonderful Life, and as you know, that's like my favorite Christmas movie, and mine is probably Elf, and we I love Elf too. I love Elf, and I really I've come to really love Home Alone, Home Alone. I do too, I do too. But It's a Wonderful Life. Every year we watch it, and every year I cry, and every year our daughter cries as well. I think we all just a little bit. Yeah, yeah, because I have I have the Hallmark Christmas movie station on the kitchen all the time, so I have I haven't watched any Christmas movies really from start to finish.

3:08 And well it's stay. Yeah, we're officially running. Yeah, it's been it's been a little chaotic. Yeah. Do you have any other traditions that you are particularly fond of. Well, it's it's just hard being the mom. That's all I'm going to say, is the mom hoping for a robe this year. I'm not a robe where so no, I'm actually hoping. I don't get a robe. But you you try, I know, you try your best. You've been super busy and really at this point of my life, I wish we could give people the gift of time. Yeah, I wish you could give me here is a gift of two hours where you can lay around and read a book and take a bath or you know, things like that. I think that's what people when you get older, that's really what you want. Or like, you know, I'm going to gift you a and you can like a nice dinner with our family where you know, we just have nice, a nice time together. You know, I think those are the things that matter the most. Yeah. Sure, I thought. Wait, I was gonna say just one word, like cheesy, mom, is just this year, as you're sitting around with your family and you're looking at your family, just try to remember and think to yourself, these are the good old days. Yeah, because you know, hopefully this year you're with your loved ones and they might not be here next year, and you know, just try to really soak it up. Soak it all up. That's what I try to do sometimes, is just enjoy the time that you have together. Yeah. Absolutely, things might not be perfect, but you know we're doing all right. Yep, for sure, Well I brought you some fuss. Sure for sure, we say that a lot.

4:41 Do you brought me some fudge? I did, Well, you made one of these and I made one of these. But yeah, there's two kinds of fudge. One is your nutella sea salt fudge, right yeah, and then the other is peanut butter fudge. It's too and all I've had is cookies, so it's a perfect day. Well, here's some more for you. The peanut butter fudge is I use the Brown Eyed Baker recipe, which I think there's a lot of recipes that are very similar, but it's very simple. Peanut butter powdered. Yeah, I will put it. Will post these recipes. I'm going to post them early because it's Christmas Day when this is releasing, so if anyone is looking for a recipe. The nutella sea salt fudge is so easy and it's really creamy. Something else. Some fudge can be a little it's not maybe the best chocolate. I think I could have used better chocolate chips. It's just nutella chocolate chips and sweet and condensed milk with a little bit of sea salt on top. And it's it's good.

5:36 It's creamy. Let's take a quick break have a little sample that was delicious. We always say that, but it always is not always. Yeah, you always have the chicken, the chicken what was it chicken laise or something. Those are gross, Oh, those were gross. But the peanut butter fudge is like my favorite. I love that, the new telefudge. It's just so smooth and creamy. Great. If you're from Michigan you know this. But Michigan is kind of known for its fudge. That's true, seriously, Like I'm not sure how that happened, but like Mackina Island and just anytime you go on a up vacation up north, there's fudge, fudge and pasties. Okay, I think we've surpassed our or five minutes that we told people were trying not going to talk for more than five minutes, and we've already all right, well we should talk about Scott and Lacy Peterson.

6:30 You know, I've been having nightmares. I'm not exaggerating, No, I've been having nightmares and I'm having trouble sleeping. So I'm really excited to say goodbye to this case. Yeah, this is one that has gotten I know, in your head, especially a little bit in mine, but not I think not quite as much as you well, and I think we haven't really everyone knows what we're gonna end up saying, you know, how we feel about the case at the end, but my opinions definitely have changed a little. Yeah, I'm just going to say that. We'll talk more about that. So we left off basically on December twenty fourth of twenty two, thousand and two, when Lacey was reported as being missing, and we talked about kind of Scott's day, what he claimed, you know, when he left the house and going fishing on the bay and all that type of thing.

7:15 I'm going to cover a little bit more of the initial search and I'll touch on some of the things, same things that we've talked about so far, but we'll kind of go from there. So we did talk about when the police first showed up and Scott volunteered right away, the time stamped receipt from the marina at twelve fifty four. A couple of other things I wanted to say about that too, is they asked him some questions about his fishing trip initially. Yeah, I was going to mention that too, Yeah, like what did you go fishing for? What did you use for bait. Where did you keep your fishing gear? And he his answers were very awkward, like he didn't know what he was fishing for at first, and then he kind of, oh, well, I was fishing for this. And when he had like fresh water lures, his fishing pole wasn't put together. I mean there was the lures weren't taken out of the package. Well he had left him that he forgot them in the truck. But yeah, yeah, So there was a lot of things like that that were a little bit They felt that we're a little bit off. When you wanted to mention the fishing license, I don't think I mentioned that, or I didn't write. So the fishing license they had was purchased on the twentieth, twentieth, right, and it was only good for the twenty third and the twenty fourth. So yet another thing that he had to have bought this fishing license four days earlier and he could only use it on those two days. Well, again, I'm not I'm going to be the scout apologist. You can be the devil's advocate for right exactly. I don't think that's that weird. In my opinion, it was weird that he canceled golf and he said it was too cold.

8:45 But he knew the work was going to be slow. It's you know, Christmas Eve and the day. You know, things kind of come to a screeching halt when you're working around the Christmas holidays, right because you usually, like you know, end up taking off more time. And you know, he knew that work would be slow so he would be able to get his boat in the water. He had just bought this boat. He wanted to get it in the water. So to me, that wasn't that big of a flag. Yeah, I mean I can see that. I still think it's pretty suspicious that you bought this fishing license for two days only and then, you know, like you said, he initially was going to go golfing and then kind of changed his mind. But he had already planned in advance to go fishing or have the license at least the boat. We didn't talk about this before, but the boat was It was an inexpensive boat, but it wasn't like a cheap boat. It had like a fish finder on it, and you know, for the someone said it was actually a really good deal on this boat. My point is, if Scott wanted to buy a boat just to get rid of Lacey's body. He could have bought a cheaper boat. True, good point. So on Christmas morning. The next day, detectives continued combing the neighborhood. They knocked on doors, They talked to neighbors. Amy Crigbaond, who lived across the street. At five point twenty Covina said that she hadn't seen Lacey walking in some time, assume because of how pregnant she was. She also said that Lacey's usual routine was to raise the front window shades in the morning and lower them again in the evening.

10:16 I'm laughing, No, I'm just laughing because we talked about this last time. We didn't collate our scripts at all, and my four sentences are almost exactly what you just said. Lacey hadn't gone walking in a while. The lines were drawn on Christmas Eve and yeah, and she noticed that the yeah, the blinds had not been right again. You know, we just want to try to cover all bases. It was cloudy and rainy, and there really wasn't a reason to raise the blinds. Yeah. That afternoon, Scott was scheduled to come in and take a polygraph but he called the detectives and said that he had changed his mind on advice from his father Lee. Later that afternoon, Scott called detectives and asked for a progress report, and he also asked whether they had used kidaver dogs yet, which surprised the detectives.

11:05 Over the next few days, the police conducted a number of searches, including grid searches by air, bloodhound searches on the ground, and more searches of the Peterson home, Scott's office, and the boat. We didn't talk much about the Peterson's neighborhood, but it was the East Loma Park. There's a lot of parks surrounding it. Yeah, so there was a lot of searches of parks, right. And I wanted to mention too that the police did confirm with neighbors that Scott did come over and knock on their door and say, Hey, Lacy's missing. Have you seen her? Yes. Allegedly he did say to one of the neighbors, Hey, I've been out golfing all day, that's right, Yeah, which is definitely a little suspicious. Yeah, exactly like he was going to use that as an alibi, and then changed his mind when he knew that people knew he was at the marina.

11:52 I'm not sure why he would have done that though, because he knew people saw him at the marina, right. I mean, that's another question that I have. I don't want to get too far off track. But if he did some lazy's body in the bay, why did he tell them exactly where he was? Yeah? And why did police release that information? But that's another story. Yeah, it's a good question. Lacey's family and friends set up a command center for her search at the Red Lion Hotel. They printed thousands of flyers with Lacey's photo and reward information. One little anecdote that came out later is the there was a family friend. His name was Harvey Kempele, and he testified that he had followed Scott from the command center at the Red Lion Hotel to a local mall where Scott had said that he was going to hang the flyers. I don't know why he followed him.

12:43 I think he may have been suspicious about Scott. But he saw Scott just sit idly in his car for about an hour, never hung a single poster up, and then just turned around. And another time he said he followed Scott from the command center where he was going to hang flyers and he went and played golf. Yikes. Yeah, just you know, another couple of things like Scott's behavior being a little bit off the movie Gone Girl. I don't know what year that was released, Like the book. We both read the book and then the movie was released, And whenever I think of this time in the case with the Red Lion Hotel, I just pictured bed asfuck, just walking around and like you know, being social and eating ribs and just you know, his behavior definitely was more laid back than it should have been. Yeah, that book Gone Girl had to be partly based on this kill, for sure. Definitely. The police received tips from a few people who claim to have seen a pregnant woman with a dog on the morning of the twenty fourth wearing wearing I don't know, oh, you don't know, black like leggings and a white like a white lung snatching what Scott said, white laying white sneakers. Yeah, And there were quite a few people that came forward at various times throughout this whole process, which I think casts a lot of doubt a lot for a lot of people. We haven't talked about the documentary yet, but that documentary they allegeda believe that there was two dozen people that saw Lacy Yeah. While the police were at the Peterson's home on

14:13 the twenty sixth, the neighbors across the street, the Medinas, arrived home after being away for a couple of days to find that their house had been broken into. They came over and reported it to the police, who went over to take a look. They could see that the entry had been made on the side of the house. Someone had kicked in their French doors. The Medinas reported that a personal safe, which had been in the primary bedroom, was missing, along with some power tools. A day or two later, a woman named Diane Jackson came forward saying she witnessed the burglary. She said she was driving along Covina Avenue at eleven forty a m. On the twenty fourth and saw three short of stature, dark skinned but not African American guys standing in the Medina's front yard near a van. She first said it was a white van, but then she said it might have been a darker color. So the burglary has become one of those nuggets in this case that we just can't decipher, and it's frustrating because no one knows when it happened.

15:11 Yeah, so we do know when the family was gone from They left their house at around ten thirty on the twenty fourth, and they came home at four to twenty pm on the twenty sixth, so we know the burglary happened sometime during that timeframe. They ended up arresting two guys, at least two guys. There may have been more involved, but we know that they rested Stephen Todd and Donald Glenn Pearce on January tewod so that was pretty quick, pretty quick. Yeah, they claimed that they broke into the house. They first said on the twenty seventh, which wouldn't have been possible. We know that we know that the Medinas were home by then. But then they kind of changed their story. They said, well, it was probably on the twenty sixth, and they said it was between three am and seven am.

15:56 And there's been a lot of people that have said that couldn't be the case because there were news crews out there and they would have seen them. But we don't know if the news cruise. I've read that they didn't get out there until like five am, and it was really the first that day was only Ted Rowlands would have been the only one out there. Ted Rowlands yea, and I have seen I believe it might be the first live feed from Ted and it's definitely darkish, but not dark. So I do think it's plausible that it was the twenty sixth. I think for a long time I did think it was on the twenty fourth. Yeah, but it does make more sense that it's the twenty seven. But there is an eyewitness.

16:37 There's an eyewitness, But those guys did take live detector tests as well, and they apparently passed them. But I also think like that eyewitness, so if it was after eleven o'clock or eleven thirty on the twenty fourth, was already missing. Yeah, yeah, And if you're a burglar, it just doesn't make sense that you're going to do that in broad daylight. So I feel like that witness must be mistaken somehow possibly, But Lazy also had the personality I believe where she would have intervened if she saw something amiss. I think she could have walked over and be like, hey, you guys, what are you doing? The Medinas are on, they're away you know, you shouldn't be here, so I could see her intervening. And I think for a long time I did think it was more possible than I do now.

17:25 Yeah, I think I think you're right about that. But the timeline just doesn't work. That's the biggest problem I think with it. Is it just unless they unless they got there, you know, exactly when the Medina's left, and you know, again it could be possible they're casing the joint, you know, just like on home alone. They probably had a stack of pizzas delivered the night before. And yeah, so it's it's plausible, but probably not likely. Yeah, and your least your worst evidence is an eyewitness. Is that true. I think that's probably true, especially in a case like this that has so much attention. You know, people are just people, and I'm not saying that people were intentionally lying, but I think you see this on the news over and over. Yeah, somebody, sure, Yeah, it's just you think you're being a helpful citizen. You think you're going to move the case along. You If our neighbor went missing, our pregnant neighbor went missing, I would be devastated and I would I would definitely be searching my memory bang for any little granular bit of evidence that I could pass along to the police. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, So I was going to talk a little bit about some of the searches that were done with dogs. Now, So there were a number of different searches with bloodhounds.

18:37 The first search they did was from the Peterson's home and they had a scent dog. They you know, gave gave the dog some items of Lacey's. The dog followed her scent right down the middle of Covina Avenue, which the handler said that that was an indication that Lacey left in a vehicle, not on foot, although again this is all you know, this is all speculation, right because she could have walked the middle of the street. We don't know. Well, you and I have talked about this, so I'm going to let you finish and then we can I'll give you my opinion for what it's worth. Sure, So the dog followed the trail west and then south before the dog lost the scent. They then took the dog to the parking lot of Scott's office and the handler walked the dog around the parking lot to try to pick up the scent. When they got near Scott's office.

19:23 The dog's tail immediately went up, indicating that he had picked up Lacey's scent. The dog followed the scent south on Emerald Avenue, then westbound on Highway one thirty two, which is the way that one would drive from Scott's office to the marina, before losing the scent again. And then lastly, the police took the search dogs to the Berkeley Marina, and while it wasn't conclusive, the handler was of the opinion that the dog picked up Lacey's scent in the parking lot and then let it down the boat ramp. So I did just a little bit of research on sniffer dogs or sent dogs or there's a difference between sniffer dog and a cadaver dog, I believe. But so a handler said that it's really not possible for a dog to be able to determine that Lacy went off in a vehicle. That's just not They would they would lose the sense. Yeah, it does seem very it would be pretty amazing.

20:15 But well, and dogs are amazing, I mean, and they do have you know, they can pick up sense really well. So all all handlers of sniffer dogs are volunteers, right, you can't pay someone to do it because then you know your your motives might be off. Yeah, and the whole you know, confirmation bias, I think comes into play there. Sure. So I think that a dog, like if you if the dog has a task, like you know, hey, Fido, we want you to find this cocaine and there's you know, like, I think that that is a great use of a of a dog, or if it's a cadaver dog, and the cadaver dog can lead you to the remains of something.

21:00 But in this case, when you're just trying to pick up a cent, I feel like that's a little more subjective. It is, And to your point, none of the dog tracking evidence was allowed at trial except for the search at the Berkeley Marina itself, and the judge did allow that evidence, but he did say that it was if he at best. So you're right, it's not a it's not an exact science, and it's kind of like, you know, you've got the handler and the dog, and that relationship is a very tight relationship. The only person that can interpret the dog's behavior is the handler. Yeah, And so again, confirmation bias just plays into this, and like we were saying with the neighbors, people really wanted to find lazy, and I think sometimes your motivations are in the right place.

21:44 But yeah, I think that, you know, the sniffer dogs sometimes aren't as reliable as we want them to be. And sometimes they're a nightmare. I heard a police officer talking about and just said, they're a nightmare to work with because you know, it's a dog, but it's a working dog, and working dogs can be They're serious, they take their job seriously and they you know, I say, they were like Prima Donna's that they you know, and they have like a fancy dressing room and stuff like that. No. I mean, dogs are great though, but like I said, if they have like a very distinct purpose, like find this, not just oh tell us if you the scent was here, you know, there's there's some gray area, I think, and I don't know if we're going to talk about this, but some of that I don't remember the name of the dog, but the dog, one of the dogs that was used heavily had failed her certification. Oh multiple times. Oh, I didn't know about that.

22:34 Yeah, it's interesting, all right, So we'll take take the dog evidence for what it's worth. We love dogs. Dogs are great. We don't get the wrong idea. The other thing I was going to talk about is the tarp in Scott's truck. Yeah. So, on the twenty sixth, the police impounded Scott's truck, and when they examined it late that evening, they noticed that the tan tarp which had been covering the boat, the patio and umbrellas, the bag with the fishing lures, and a few other items were no longer there that had been there when they first looked at the truck on the twenty fourth. They later located the umbrellas in Scott's backyard and the tan canvas tarp was in a shed at Scott's house with a leaky leaf blower on top of him. I was like, how did how and why did they get there so quickly? No, it makes no sense. The tark was soaked with gasoline, which made it and the shed almost useless.

23:29 From an evidentiary stand, I think he made it look like the leaf blower had been leaking, and he just put the leaf flower on top. But they said the leaflower really wasn't leaking, so he must have doused the boat cover with gasoline to throw off the scent dog. Yeah, and again this was like going back to our conversation in part one about Scott was he took care of his things. He was pretty meticulous and he you know, he wasn't careless with the things they owned. And that boat cover is not cheap, like this is a nice, you know, canvas boat cover. So there's just it just boggles the mind how that would it would end up soaked in gasoline. I had another question about scent dogs too, So I know that scent dog was given some of late Lacey's possessions. I believe a hair brush, a slipper, sunglasses, one of Scott's slippers I would think was given to Yes, I can't, I can't remember exactly what was given.

24:22 But so if if they're Lacey's sunglasses, first of all, I'm just curious how much scent right adher's sunglasses. Yeah, I thought that was kind of an odd idea. But if Scott is you know, Scott's in the house too, does anything that lazy don't have his scent just automatically in it, you would think so. I mean, obviously, if it's a slipper, it must have a lot of her scent in it. Right, he's handing over the sunglasses. So I'm just curious about that, you know, like, if that's the items that they were going off of, you know, how do you know that Scott's scent wasn't on that? Right? Yep. The last thing I was going to mention about the searches and this this phase of the investigation is they also searched Scott's shop again on the twenty sixth, which is when they found a pair of needle noosed plyers beneath the bench seat in the boat which had a single hair in them, which turned out to be Lacey's hair. I know We've had some discussion, Yeah, had some demain. My understanding is the flyers were rusted shut and the hair must have been there for some time. Just read something last night about how the plyers were placed in an evidence bag and then there were two hairs and everyone's like, how did two hairs get there? Yeah? I read the testimony from the expert on this. So they did say that the pliers were very rusty to the point where it was difficult to open them. But the thing is, the person that did the examination examined them on February twenty fourth. So this was like they sat in a bag, right, They had been sitting in seawater in the boat, and then they were sat in a bag for

25:55 almost two months and then the person looked at them. So the pliers were definitely rusty. They were hard to get open, but we don't know if that rust got worse over the course of those two months or not. And the hares being cut in half, they think it just probably happened, you know, while it was sitting in the evidence. No other forensic evidence was found in the boat. No, okay, I just wanted to confirm that, and that is by forensic event. You mean there was no DNA but exactly we have one hair. Yeah. The only other thing I read about that was found was some concrete. So there's the whole thing with the concrete anchors, right, Scott, We're going to get into that. Yeah, yeah, we can talk about that later. But that's not forensic evidence, you're right. So we're still on Christmas. In the couple of days after.

26:42 Scott is refusing any interviews at this point, but he was interviewed again by the police for several hours and they noted a lot of inconsistencies. But if your story is spot on every time you tell it, that's also suspicious. So it's very tricky. You mentioned this, But search warns were issued for Scott's warehouse, boat, truck, and home. I believe it was the twenty seventh when they had done our cursory search on Christmas Eve and they took a lot of photos. But they have electricity right at the shop. We didn't mention that. Yeah, let me just talk about the house real quick, but they did, do you know, they took a lot of photos, but they didn't do like a thorough search. But on the twenty seventh they rolled up their sleeves and we are going to get in here and we are going to find some forensic evidence. And they didn't. But yeah, do you want to talk about Yeah, So they went to his shop on the twenty fourth in that evening and they got there and Scott said, well, there's no electricity, so you have to use your flashlights or whatever, and so they basically they rolled up the door to the warehouse part of the shop and shined their headlights in and they used their flashlights and they never really thought to try a light switch or anything like that, and when they came back a couple days later with search war they found that there was there was light and it worked fine. So that was a little bit weird, but it was weird. Yeah, But I think he was just really belligerent and it was just pissed because I think they were treating him like a suspect

28:14 and he was mad, but they had every reason to treat him like a suspect. The house so two small spots of blood they thought they had it found. I think it was on a door door frame. They're like, oh, I think that's blood. It wasn't. Four computers and laptops were taken. One was used solely for Scott's porn bookmarks. Some of the things he had bookmarked were beast reality and bondage websites. Some disturbing videos included one called raping the Teacher and Lazy he was a teachacher and the other one was the wife Confesses. And it wasn't for a while. I think some people reported like on Christmas Day Scott upgraded his porn package. That actually wasn't for a couple of weeks. Yeah. Anne Bird, Scott's sister, actually wrote about that. It was actually the day of Anne's sons christening, which was January third. Scott came to the christening and then he called his cable provider shortly after that, so it was okay, it was sooner than I thought.

29:15 Yeah, it was about a little over a week after. Well then I'm not sure what that first upgrade might have been, but that might have been like the Playboy channel. But then he did call back and another more time passes a week or two, and he upgraded to like the really hardcore stuff. I mean, I don't Yeah, yeah, we didn't talk much about Scott's office slash warehouse. He spent a lot of time there and I believe he was the only one with a key, and so part of it was an office and part of it was a warehouse, right, And he had you know, like his computer and stuff set up, and the other part he just had a lot of bags of fertilized. It was very cluttered, right, it was very cluttered, and it was tight and well, Lacey, and this is what we were going to talk about with like did Lacey know about the boat? Right? And a woman who worked at an adjacent warehouse said, and she wasn't sure about the date for some reason.

30:15 She said it was either the twentieth or the twenty third, which those were kind of a little bit before. Yeah, that Lacey had asked to use the restroom and her warehouse because there was too many palletts stacked up in front of the restroom, right, and Scott's warehouse. So the woman had seen Lacey, and at that point Scott had the boat, right, So that's why I think that Lacey knew about the boat. Also, Scott paid for the boat out of with a check, and so Lacey would have known about it. That's a good point in that. But just keep in mind the warehouse there were two separate rooms, right, and there were each room had its own entrance. So there was his office, which had a door into the office, and then there was the bigger warehouse, which had like a garage door type of thing. So we don't know if Lacey just went into his office to see closed I didn't know it was closed off. Yeah it is. Yeah, I still think that she's I mean, I think that she still would have seen it. It's possible that she didn't. He wouldn't have been trying to hide it. I don't think. Yeah, we don't know investigators found what they thought were four circular impressions where cement had been poured.

31:22 I believe it was on the trailer that the boat was on right, and Scott claimed only have one anchor. Right. The anchor was like a he poured concrete into a bucket. I think it was a home depot bucket. I'm not sure it was just a Yeah, it was a bucket and it had like a piece of metal sticking out of it where you could tie a rope to or whatever. And he yeah, you're right, he said he made only one anchor, but police said they it felt like there were impressions for four or five, which is pretty weak evidence. Yeah, it is, but it comes back later. He could have bought an ankor, Like I think an anchor is thirty dollars. You know what at that time for his the boat that he needed. The person that sold him the boat for some reason was like, oh, I'm going to keep the anchor.

32:09 Yeah, So Scott was like, oh, you know, it's just a lot cheaper to buy a bag of cement or two than to buy an anchor, which to me that seems like not that great of a money. But I think give us something a lot of people do. Yeah, but I heard that it is harder to do. Scott claimed that he had to make multiple anchors mixing cement. I was some I have never mixed cement. Well, actually I have because we've made you like footprints or something for Father's Day. But is it hard to mix cement? No, no, it's not. It's just like fifty to fifty. Yeah, okay. Well, allegedly he claimed that he had to throw a couple away and there was the whole issue with the cement leftover cement, and then he yeah, he said he had left over cement and he poured it by the side of his driveway, and a lot of people point to that, saying, see, he only made one anchor and then he used the rest of it. And that's what I I for years, that's what I thought. Yes, but there was an expert that testified at the trial that it was not the same type of concrete as was used to make the anchor. Yes, So I mean, you know, where did the other anchors go? And we'll talk about it more in a little bit, because I do. I did not. I thought that there was one anchor, but now I think that there were more anchors. Yes. And one other thing about this is on the inside of the boat, there's like the what's called the rib lines, which is basically like along the side of the boat. There's a little a little part of the boat that kind of sticks out like a little ridge. And investigators saw

33:39 cement particles along those rib lines of the boat. And the only thing they could think of is why would that be there unless, like if those anchors were attached to Lacy's body and he pushed her body over the edge, those anchors would have like scraped up against the rib lines, and that would explain why they were there. True, we are going to take a break and we will be right back. One other thing I wanted to mention about the search is that a sexual assault counselor came forward and said that she had counseled a confidential victim of sexual assault two weeks prior to Lacey's disappearance. The person said that she had been lured into a brown van by her ex girlfriend, and while in the van, two men and two women raped her and a satanic ritual was conducted. The victim said that the group was living at the Woodward Reservoir. She also said that the group mentioned a Christmas Day death and that she would read about it in the papers. So news broke about this story and it became a big deal because again people love a people satanic stuff.

34:49 Yeah, and Mark Garrigos, who was Scott's attorney by this point, he offered a reward trying to get to the van before the police did, because he felt like the police wouldn't do their job and find the evidence. The police ultimately did locate the van, They interviewed the four occupants, they searched the van. They felt like there was nothing of significance in the van that they found, and then eventually they got rid of They had the van for a while and they decided to get rid of it. It wasn't worth anything. Mark Garrigos bought the van from the police, but we don't know what happened to it after that. He never introduced anything about it at the trial or anything, So I think it was kind of a red herring.

35:30 But again it was part of the story. It was a big, big news at the time. Mark Garraghos, there's there. We'll talk about him more with their Yeah, that's that's an interesting man. Did you come across Evelyn Hernandez and your research don't recall that name, Okay, on the morning of May first, two thousand and two, So this is six six months before. Yeah, yeah, twenty four year old single mom, Evelyn Hernandez, nine months pregnant with her second child. She has a five year old son, and she went missing very similar and she was found and then San Francisco Bay. So a lot of people pointed to Evelyn's disappearance. She was likely murdered by her the man she was having an affair with, Hermann Aguilar, who was a thirty six year old part time limo driver and United Airlines Mechanicay. Evelyn's five year old son also went missing and her partial remains were found in the bay, but little Alex was never found and no one has ever been convicted of any crime. Wow, that's super sad. I am curious about this case, and it just goes to show you, like, is Evelyn's life worth less than Lacy Peterson's life? No, Yeah, we've never heard about that story, And yeah, I would kind of like to dive into that one a little, a little deeper. But it's heartbreaking how some you know, we talk about this all the time. How some cases get so much coverage and others don't. Yeah, but it's also amazing in this case, just how many things there are, how many stories came out

37:01 that are like, is it related? Is it not related? That you know, the satanic thing, all the people who say that they saw her. It's just it's so complicated when you have all these things coming into play. There were other pregnant women that also went missing in that area, and there was another there was a pregnant woman that lived in the neighborhood that had a Golden Retriever named Mackenzie. She had her baby I think in October, so she wasn't pregnant anymore by that time. But just the fact that there was another woman in the neighborhood who looked a lot, likely with a golden retriever of the same name. Yeah. Yeah. Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women, and it's usually due to their partners or husbands.

37:43 Yeah, it's shocking, but I guess not surprising. That brings us to December thirtieth, which I'm going to call Amber Friday. Amberfry called the Lacy Peterson tip Line on December thirtieth. After talking, she was telling one of her friends about She's like, I met this guy. He's great, and her friend was like, oh, let's google him, and then they found they found Scott Peterson, and Amber was really confused. She was like, is that mice Scott Peterson? And so she called the tip line and she was like trying to She was like, what is Scott's birth date? And they told her and then she was like, oh god, oh jeez. They'd been seeing each other for just too over a month. Their first date was November twentieth, two thousand and two. Scott initially told Amber that he was single and he'd never been married, like, I've never even come close to being married, Amber, but when he arrived at her house on December ninth for a date, he admitted he lied to her after remember her friend Sean, who introduced them. Sean put pressure on him, and Scott told Amber he'd had a wife but he'd lost her and he was sad because this would be his first Christmas without her. And Amber was like, oh my gosh, Scott, I can understand why you wouldn't have told me that.

39:00 It's just so traumatic. So she she forgave him, police high tailed it to Madera to meet with Amber once they you know, actually, l Brokini tells the story like he was actually standing behind the person that was talking to Amber and he saw like the notes she was taking. He was like, uh, bev, give me the phone, let me talk to her. He was very excited because they kept saying, like Scott is he doesn't have a pimple, He's never had a speeding ticket, you know, he's so they were really excited to find out about it. I mean, and you know, to el Brokini's defense, I don't think he comes off swimmingly in this whole thing. Did you have an impression of him same? I mean, I think he was a good cop, but I think he'd made some mistakes. He was a little maybe rush to judgment a little bit.

39:47 Yeah. I mean I'm not saying he's wrong, but I think that, yeah, he definitely could have maybe explored some other avenues. But anyway, so he was very excited. He went to meet with Amber and Sean was there too. Amber was twenty seven at the time, same age as Lacey. She was tall and pretty with blonde hair, and she pulled out a picture of her and Scott informal wear from the December fourteenth Christmas party that they had attended together. And you've probably seen the picture. She's sitting on his lap and he has the biggest, slimiest grin on his face. The picture was probably taken at the same time where Lacey attended the Christmas party by herself, and we talked about this, But you've seen the picture of Lacey.

40:32 She just looked so so sweet in her shiny red material maternity pantsuit, smiling broadly with her hands folded protectively on her belly. She had also saved some Amber had saved, like the wine corks from the bottles of wine that Scott had brought her, and she sharpened them with their consumption date. Although they hadn't seen each other. On Christmas, Scott sent Amber a planetarium that projected image of stars onto the ceiling. Amber told detectives about their first date. Scott had pulled out all of the stops to impress Amber. They met and they were just going to have drinks and then he was like, hey, will you would you just I'm gross, I've been traveling all day. Let's just go up to my hotel room real quick and I can take a shower, I'll feel more comfortable. And she was like whookie. And he had champagne and he put strawberries in the glasses. Romantic and he had I believe I could be wrong, but I think he had three dozen roses. And so yeah, then they went to this Japanese restaurant. Scott ordered, you know, more drinks and lots of food. Somehow he finaggled a private room at the restaurant, and he entertained Amber with stories of his world travels Africa and Ireland and Spain. He told Amber, Hey, I'm you know, I'm a worldly guy. I can't just stay in California for the holidays.

42:02 I'm going to go to Alaska, and which was kind of a weird. I'm going to Alaska and then Paris. Amber had a daughter who was almost two. And I have to say Ambers very she's twenty seven. Not the twenty seven year olds aren't smart. But Amber just strikes me as maybe a little naive. Yeah, that seems like she just fell like had over heels, like immediately, well love he was love bombing her. Yeah. Yeah, you know, when you show your is it not even showing your best self? Like this false self and just I mean, no man is giving you roses, you know, like all the time. It's just unrealistic, unsustainable. Yeah. So Amber's daughter was almost two, and that didn't seem to dissuade Scott. He was like, oh, I love kids. They're still on their first eight. They went to after the they closed the Japanese restaurant, and there was a karaoke bar next door. So they went to the karaoke bar, and I believe that they saying a duet together. They sing Islands in the Stream, Oh Lovely, it's a romantic tune. They went back to Scott's hotel room and they had sex for the first time, and I believe Sean stayed with Amber's daughter. Amber told Scott her birthday was February tenth, and February tenth, if you remember, was Lacey's due date on their second date. So, you know, Scott, you kind of have to wonder, like, how is this married man away from home so much? Yeah, I mean he was kind of a traveling salesman. His tritory was like several states. I think he went to California and Arizona and

43:37 yeah, so he did travel for his work. But I think he just would tell Lacey, yeah, I'm just I'm traveling. And the second date, Scott met Amber's daughter, which is pretty soon. They spent the afternoon together and Scott had bought gifts for both of them and made them dinner. So if you're a single a single mom like Amber, you're tired. I'm really tired. And she worked as a massage therapist. Her work's pretty demanding. I think she had just gotten her certification and was just starting her own business, and so, you know, you she's very busy. She's tired, and here comes Scott. I'm gonna make you dinner. I'm gonna write gifts for you and your daughter. I don't mind that you have because some guys would be like, oh you have a you have a kid, But Scott was like I love no, I love kids, and you know, he would bring your little gifts. So Amber is just thinking that she has hit the lottery with this guy. Yeah. Uh. And Scott. On the second date, Amber was like, oh, I have to go pick up my daughter from from daycare, and Scott was like, I'll go with you. And so he met, you know, he met her little girl.

44:45 Second date, he helped pick her up. By the third date, Amber asked Scott to pick pick up her daughter from school. That is just crazy. Every mom that listening is just like red flat red flag. I know that one just blows my mind. And I think Amber was just really just thought he was a good guy and she was happy to have someone that cared about her daughter. Yeah, and Scott was he had just so banana. He picked up the baby from school and then he makes dinner again. Amber comes home and she's like, oh my gosh, I have a family. And the three of them went that night and picked out a Christmas tree together. Oh my god. Now, on the night of the formal Christmas party, Scott and Amber stayed in a hotel and she told him she wasn't using birth control. In a rare moment of honesty, Scott told Amber that he didn't want to have any more children, like he said, your daughter is enough for me. And he told her he was thinking about getting out of a sectomy. And Amber was a little like, oh, she was surprised by that. So what do you think of their whirlwind relationship. It's just so fast and it's so like Amber was like just so committed. I mean, you're right this Knight in Shining Armor is coming and buying her all these things and treating her really well. I can sort of understand that, but obviously letting him pick up her daughter as just mind boggling to me.

46:10 But we also see again how Scott is like mirroring the person he's with, Right, He's trying to be the perfect man for her and exactly what she would want in a man. And I think also she was pretty religious, and he acted like he was also very religious, which I don't think he really was. So yeah, we just see that kind of behavior again from him. I think Scott liked to be the person people needed him to be, yep, And he was just trying so hard to be this perfect, perfect guy because he'd like to see that image of himself reflected back to himself. Right, he did want to be a Knight in Shining Armor. Yeah, Amber didn't. So they hadn't seen each other a ton, but I mean, I think they've probably seen each other maybe six or seven times in person, that might maybe five, I'm not sure how many. But they didn't see each other a ton because you know, she's ninety minutes away, he's got another wife and yeah, home Yeah, they had talked almost every day on the phone, but on Christmas Eve he didn't talk to her because he had a lot of things to do, but not picking up a fruit basket. His wife's grandfather. He called Amber twice on Christmas, which is so gross. Yeah, his wife is missing and he calls Amber twice.

47:30 Okay. So December thirtieth was the day she went to the police. The next day, New Year's Eve, that's when the horrible, awkward Paris phone call happens, and the police, like Alborkini, went to the radio shack and bought a recording device for Amber's phone, and Amber was on board and she was like, okay, I will I will record all of my conversations with Scott. So from New Year's evon, all of her phone call well not all of them, her phone calls with Scott were recorded, and he asked her basically not to tell him that she knew about him, right to basically just play act along like nothing was different. More than a thousand people had gathered at East La Looma Park for a candlelight vigil for Lacey, and both the Peterson and roach Of families were there and they spoke to the crowd, like thanking them and encouraging them to continue to look for Lacey. But Scott hung back, And one of the reasons he probably hung back was he he thought that he was in the clear with Amber. She didn't know anything about Lacey, and so he didn't want to be seen on camera or heard because he was trying to, you know, save his image for Amber.

48:40 So, you know, Scott has been critiqued a lot for his his kind of his demeanor behavior. Well, yeah, yeah, a lot of things. But his behavior was suspicious, and I think there's a good reason for that. But part of it, I wonder is that you know, he at this point, he doesn't the police don't know that he is having an affair, right, and so that's part of the reason why he might have been acting. Yeah, he was trying to cover up an affair for exactly. Do you want to do a little true crime theater? Oh, I'm always up for some true crime theater. That way, we don't have to listen to the phone call because I've heard it so many times, but I do think it's important. Yeah, and if listeners, you can just pass forward. So this is the call that Scott made to Amber. On New Year's Eve when he told her he was in Paris. Right, this was right after the vigil, yes, okay, well, no during the vigil, during the vigil, okay, all right, do you want to be scot Okay, gotcha. Are you having a good time? Amber? Hey, Happy New Year's, Happy New Year. I wanted to call you.

49:45 Thank you, Amber. Are you there. I'm here, Amber, I wish you could hear me. I'm on the I think that you're there. I'm near the Eiffel Tower and the New Year't celebration is unreal. The crowd is huge. Crowd's huge. Amber. Yeah, I'm here, Amber. If you're there, I can't hear you right now, but I'll call you on your New Year's Okay. So that just that was only a brief snippet of the of the call, but just shows you that he's a freaking psychopath. Because he's in modesto at his wife's candlelight vigilant. He's calling Amber, pretending to be in Paris. And he went on in great detail like he's with you know, Pierre, and yeah he had all these all these friends with Yeah, he had all these details. That's the thing. It just blows my mind. He was great, great liar, he was. Yeah, he was very good at it. On January sixth, Scott finally tells Amber he's been lying to her about everything, not really everything, but he told her that he was married and his wife went missing and he hadn't really been in traveling. He'd been in Modesto the whole time. Okay, So we're going to do another reenactment here of the conversation that Scott had with Amber when she grills him, right, and this is just a little part of the conversation. Again, I will get into the character of Scott Peterson.

51:06 Okay, the girl I'm married to, her name is Lacey, uh huh. For the past two weeks, I've been in Modesta with her family and mine searching for her. Okay, she just disappeared and no one knows. Okay now where she's been, Scott, and I can't tell you more because I need you to be protected from the media and your daughter. Okay, Okay, they are amazing, Scott. Are you are you listening? I am. You came to me earlier in December and you told me that you lost your wife. What was that about. She she's alive. Yeah, And I deserve to understand an explanation of why you told me you lost your wife and this was the first holidays you spend without her. That was December ninth, and you told me this, and now all of a sudden, your wife's missing. Are you kidding me? Did you hear me? I did. I don't know what to say to you. I think an explanation would be a start. I know you deserve an explanation, Yes I do.

52:09 I do, and I want to give you one. I have listening. I can't now, I mean, you don't understand. So the conversation went on and Scott was just being shady as heck, and he wouldn't tell. He kept saying, I can't tell you the whole story. I can't tell the whole story. And then he implied that Connor might not be his. He never said that, but he just kind of kept on implying that Lacey may have cheated on him and she didn't know the whole story, and it was it was pretty disgusting. Yeah. The days started to run together, and Scott would stop by the Lazy Command Center for a little while on most days, and he drove to the Berkeley Marina on several occasions, police had put a locator on both his and Lacey's vehicles, and Scott took to kind of driving like a madman sometimes because he kind of knew. I think he knew he was being tailed, and he was trying to evade police as much as possible. And some days he just was messing with them and he rented cars and didn't like. He stopped somewhere one time and he knew Al was there, El Borkini was there, and he was like, Hey, Al, what are you doing here? And he was just kind of playing games with them. On January twenty fourth, this whole thing takes a big turn when Amber went public with a press conference. She only spoke for about thirty seconds and she I'm going to just read it to you, okay.

53:44 First of all, I met Scott Peterson on November twentieth, two thousand and two. I was introduced to him. I was told he was unmarried. Scott told me he was not married. We did have a romantic relationship. When I discovered he was involved in Lacy peterson dissipppearance case, I immediately contacted the Modesto Police Department. Although I could have sold or sold the photos of Scott and I to the tabloids. I know this was not the right thing to do. For fear of jeopardizing the case or the police investigation, I will not comment further. I'm very sorry for Lacey's family and the pain that this has caused them, and I pray for her safe return as well. I would appreciate my friends and acquaintances to refrain from talking about me to the media for profit or recognization. I am a single mother of a twenty three year month old child, and I ask you to respect my privacy. Thank you. After Amber's press conference, Lazy's family believed like everything changed. They believe that Scott murdered Lacey. They closed the call center and share in To her credit, she called Scott on numerous occasions and she was like, I know what you did. I want my daughter back. Where is she Tell me where she is? And she was pretty relentless. But Amber continue to talk to Scott as much as five times a day. Yeah, that press conference was just that was such a huge moment in this whole case. I mean, I think it really was. I think it felt like everybody in the world was watching at that point, and Amber was so nervous, and

55:16 to her credit, she didn't have to do that, but she did, and I think she did the best job that she could. Yeah, and you know, she was a young single mom and she was scared. She said that she was having a pan literally having a panic attack while she was speaking. Yeah. Now there was a little bit of a there was a story about Amber I wanted to share. It's a little bit of a rabbit hole, but about whether she was being completely upfront with the police or not during this whole process. There was an article in Court TV that I read that basically it was based on confidential sources within the Modesto police department. It indicates that police started to doubt Amber's veracity. The article said that even though Amber had promised to record her conversations with Scott, that she was sometimes calling him on the sly. The police had a meeting on January thirteenth of two thousand and three to discuss what they called the Amber problem, and they concluded that quote Amberfry is no longer telling us the truth in this investigation. Police had been tapping her phone to make sure that she was on the up and up, and they haven't said what they heard on these calls, but the information they learned from listening in made them doubt her credibility a detective set at the time, quote Amberfry still has a desire to have Scott Peterson in her life. She may even lie or conspire with him to withhold evidence. And another confidential report stated quote, I suspect she may be disseminating information to Scott Peterson concerning what law enforcement knows about this investigation. So just an interesting side

56:52 note about Amber. I think a lot of people look at her as kind of a hero who did the right thing, but it's a little bit more questionable than that. What I cannot, for the life of me wrap my head around is after this press conference, she didn't need to keep talking to Scott, I don't think. But she did for like a month after, and they talked many times a day for long periods of time. I think she really was wrapped up in him. And you know, so maybe law enforcement was hoping that she would divulge something or he would divulge something to Amber. But Scott's he's not dumb, and he has to know at this point that her phones tapped. Yeah, she had the press conference. I mean he would definitely know that. So it does make you wonder, like what her motivation was in this whole thing she did do. She was very brave, though you have have to give her predictor right there. Yeah. Sure, at this point Scott needs to do some damage control. And this is when he starts doing media interviews, which was a bad idea, the terrible idea. You wanted to play some audio. I've got a few clips from when he was on with Diane Sawyer. So I've got a few of these, but I'll play one at a time. We can comment on him as we go, but I just want to say to the look on his face, like the visual is so weird. You can play the clips and then we can talk. Yeah, let's start with the first one here. I think everybody sitting at home wants the answer to the same question, did you

58:23 murder your wife? No? No, I just thought and I had absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance, and use the word murder and yeah, I mean that is a possibility. It's not one we're ready to accept. And it creeps in my mind late at night and early in the morning and during the day. All we can think about is the right resolution is to find her well. But as you know, increasingly and the public, suspicion has turned on you. Yes, did you ever hit her? Did you ever injure her? No? No? Oh god no. Violence towards women is unapproachable. It is the most disgusting act to me, and I know that suspicion has turned to me, and it's it's turned to me one because I'm her husband and that's a natural thing. And I've heard all the statistics on all the news shows about that being you know, someone that a husband, ex husband, a boyfriend, that is statistically the one who would be responsible for her disappearance. And I'm sorry, I've forgot your question. Did you ever hit her? Did you ever injure? No? No? Never.

59:52 I answered your question because the suspicion that it's been turned to me, and it turned to me because of the inappropriate romantic that I had with Amber Fry. So that's the first clip hard to listen to, it's hard to listen to. He's he's a creep, Yeah, creep. Completely. Let me play the second one about Amber Fry. Amber Fry came forward. I'm glad she did. You are definitely well appropriate thing to do. And it really shows what a personal character she is and it allows us to get back looking for Lacey. Did you tell her that you were not married? I did? I did, and then when Lacey disappeared, I called her and immediately. It wasn't immediately. It was a couple of days after Lacy's disappearance.

1:00:52 I telephoned her and told her the truth, the truth that I was married, that Lacey disappeared. She didn't know about it at that point, and then she contacted the police. Lie. That was a lie. He did not call her a couple of days after Lacey's disappearance to tell her the truth. No, he didn't. Got a lot of lies. Yeah, here's another one. Had you told anyone? Did you tell police? Told the police immediately when that was the first night we're together the police. I spent with the police. You told them about her? Yeah? From fourth on? That was a lie. He did not tell the police about Amperify early on. I've got a couple more short clips. Did your wife find out about it? I told my wife when early December. Did it cause a rupture in the marriage. It was not a positive obviously, it's a yeah, inappropriate, but it was not something that we weren't dealing with a lot of arguing. No, no, no, you know I can't say that that even you know, she was okay with the idea, but it

1:02:24 wasn't anything that would break us apart. There wasn't a lot of anger. No. Do you really expect people to believe that an eight and a half multipregnant woman learns her husband has had an affair and is sinkly and casual about it, accommodating, makes a peace with it. Well, yeah, you don't know. No one knows our relationship with us and that's at peace with it. I'm not happy about it. Why did you tell her it was the right thing? Tell me about the state of your marriage? What?

1:03:21 What kind of marriage was it? God? I mean the first word that comes to mind is glorious. I mean we took care of each other very well. She was amazing, She was amazing, is amazing. Glorious. Oh man, those clips just make me cringe described so much. No, don't it's okay, Oh yeah, it's it's it's hard to listen to and it, like we said, it's it's even harder to watch his face. Uh, he's smiling at times and a couple of times there's like a little chuckle that comes out. It's like it's nothing's funny. And the I think it was the first clip where she says something about murder and he says, well, murder, and he like smiles and chuckles. He's like, it's really it's really creepy. It's very very uncomfortable. Yeah, just his whole demeanor and his tone of voice was just seemed really inappropriate. I wanted to mention I don't know if you found this, but so Scott's phone was obviously tapped, they had GPS's on his vehicle vehicles, but sixty five friends, family members, and members of the press also had their phones tapped, Like I believe Dane Sawyer, really, Nancy Grace, Dan Abrams, all those big people at the times their phones were also tapped. Really, I did not know. Yeah, and I think once they found out about it, they didn't know initial they were pretty pissedl Yeah, the nuts. That's how big this case got. Can I just say, though I love Diane Sawyer,

1:04:55 actually really I really missed Diane Sawyer. I think she still does a little things here and there. But no, we could ask a question like Diane Sawyer. Yeah, yeah, it's great, Lady. Well, I think we oh god, you guys are going to kill us, but I think we need to stop. I know, we've got probably another hour of stuff to talk about in this case. There's just so much here. There's so much, and we're so sorry because we really did think we could knock it out into but we're going to have to make it three. Yeah, we promise we will finish the Lazy and Scott Peterson case and our next episode we're going to sequester ourselves in the in the light Bulb Lab recording studio. We're not going to we're done. I think it's probably we'll probably wrap it up in an hour. But I think we're both surprised that we've gone a little longer because we've never collaborated on a case. How is it going so far? Do you do? You like the collab I like it, but really it's not up to me, And I'm curious if our listeners like that we both have the same information and I like having a conversation with you.

1:05:57 It's it is. It is kind of nice, but it is funny because we really did not have time to get our information together. But I think it's going well. I've enjoyed it, and I hope everyone out there is enjoying their holiday, having fun with their family and friends and eating some good food and some nice cookies. Not everyone has like a you know, happy warm family, And if you are by yourself today, I hope that you're finding some peace and some joy in your day, little glimpses of happiness. We're recording this on December seventeenth, so we haven't decided what we're having for dinner yet. We usually have prime rib. Do you think we'll have prime rib? What do you think we're going to do? I think prime rib is good. Prime rib is good. Oh that's a bold statement. Joy prime rib. I'm curious what Love Mary Kill enterprises. What the Christmas bonus is? Gosh, that's a really good question. Yeah, I don't know.

1:06:57 Aren't you the I thought you were the CEO of Love Mary. Well, I think we're co CEOs. So hr is not going to do anything for us, probably probably like your shirt by the way, it's a nice shirt. Yeah, I love Mary or my love Mary kil hoodie. Today. For the recording, we do have a couple of extras. I think we are planning on doing some sort of giveaway if we ever get her act here. I think we need to hire. We need an intern. We need we should, we should look into that. Don't mind working for free free long I mean we could probably will give you. You can work for cookies exactly, work for cookies and next that's what I work for, cookies and and listeners. It'll we don't have. We didn't plan on doing three episodes, so whatever snack comes next will be a surprise for everyone. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. We love and appreciate our listeners so much, and we hope your your souls and spirits are filled with joy and happiness and peace. Today well said, until next time. Don't kill your husband.

1:08:03 Don't kill your wife.