Dec. 23, 2024

Lana and Steven Clayton

Lana and Steven Clayton
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On a hot South Carolina afternoon in July, 2018, Lana Clayton frantically flagged down a passerby. She told him her husband, Steven Clayton, had fallen down the stairs and she feared he was dead. The initial investigation concluded that Steven had a heart attack. But Steven’s relatives felt like something wasn’t right, and pushed for an autopsy. Would the truth emerge before it was too late?

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Today’s snack: Breton Water Crackers and Pimento Cheese

Sources:

WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina.

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And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty.

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Years of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and.

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Some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary.

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Kill Hi, Tina, Hey Rich, how are you?

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I'm good?

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How are you good? Our opening was especially funny to you.

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Why was that because.

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You literally looked like you wanted to kill me. You

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were just kind of like rolling your eyes at me,

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and you look like very angry, which normally you don't.

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Yeah. So, you know, some some episodes start a little rough.

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For another, it's the last episode before Christmas, though.

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Yes it is.

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Are you feeling in the Christmas spirit?

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Well, it's snowing outside, looks really pretty. It looks really

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pretty outside. Yeah, ish, You know what, we our kids

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are older, and I think you need a little kid

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around to really have the magic of Christmas.

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Yeah.

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So I feel like everyone's a little grouchy. And yeah, well.

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I'm not grouchy because I am officially done with work

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with my day job for the year of twenty twenty four.

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That's great.

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Yes, I'm really looking forward to the time off.

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Yeah, what are you going to do?

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I'm going to do as little as possible. Yeah, really,

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just chill out, read some books.

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I'll be working on the podcast, but I hope you

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have a wonderful break.

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I plan on it.

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I don't want to give any spoilers, but I've been

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diving pretty deep into the world of professional wrestling this week.

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So wow, that is interesting.

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There is a whole different world, isn't it.

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Holy cow, Yes, I think maybe I should have been

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a professional lady wrestler.

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You think maybe? Actually really the show Glow Gorgeous Ladies

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of Wrestling. I really loved that show. I don't think

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you watched it.

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I didn't watch it.

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No, it was just so good.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I'm not into wrestling though either.

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There's some things that are like pretty interesting. I'll just

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say it. I'm watching the Vince documentary on Netflix and

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it's not really has anything to do with the case

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that I'm working on, but I just thought I needed

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a little more background about wrestling, and it's fascinating.

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Well, we'll look forward to hearing about that. But this

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week we're going to South Carolina to talk about the

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case of Lana and Steve Clayton.

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You have shared a little bit with me about this case,

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and I'm a little a little work.

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It's a little disturbing. But before that, I do have

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a snack for you.

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You better or I'm walking.

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I know you've made that very clear.

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Up. I'm a little hungry today. I worked out last night.

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I think I'm just hungry today.

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I'm not sure how you're gonna feel about this snack

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because I was looking into what snacks are popular in

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South Carolina. Yeah, and strangely enough South Carolina. South Carolinians

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they really like moon pies also. Okay, but I didn't

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bring you a moonpie, just had that.

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Well, you know, a lot of listeners said people said

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you should freeze the moon pie and some people said

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you should put it in the microwave air fire. And

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I didn't do either one.

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Did you not yet? No, I still planned to have.

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A fair amount in the cupboard. I'm guessing.

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Yeah, but what I brought you instead is pimento cheese

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and pimento cheese, well perfect, that is a classic. I

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made it.

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Yeah, it's really really that it has our not sour cream,

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but cream cheese.

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It doesn't have cream cheese. And some of the recipes

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do authentic Southern style pimento cheese does not have cream cheese.

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I actually researched that and learned that that is not

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a normal.

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Really excited because I love pimento cheese and you don't.

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So well.

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I think it's pretty good because it doesn't have cream cheese.

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If it had cream cheese, I probably wouldn't like.

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Okay, well, do you want me to taste it? Or

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do you do? You want to tell me what's in

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at first? Oh?

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I mean it's pretty simple. It's just grated cheddar cheese

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and mayonnaise and pimentos, Worcestershire sauce.

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And just that word with no problem, and.

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Salt, pepper, cayenne. It's pretty simple. But yeah, let's try it. Yeah,

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what did you think of the pimento cheese.

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I thought it was delicious. You did a fabulous job.

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It's pretty It's pretty basic, but yeah it is.

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Well. Every year this time I usually go to Zingerman's

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or not Zingerman's, but I go to like Plum Market

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or a local place that has like Zingerman's cheese, and

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I get some pimento cheese and you'res just pretty much

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just as good as the Zerman's. So well done.

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I thought it was good and I got some I

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don't know how to pronounce this bretton breton, breton crack breton.

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Yeah, those are good.

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Thank you so much anytime.

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Ten out of ten. I think I've been too like,

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too much of an easy grad lately, but that was

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really good.

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Good. I'll give it a eight out of ten. I

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like it. Let's get to today's case. Today's case is

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a request from our listener Susan, So thank you Susan

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for the request. Really interesting case. James Blackledge was out

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for a motorcycle ride on a hot afternoon in July

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twenty eighteen. He was riding through a beautiful lake front

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neighborhood in Lake Wiley, South Carolina, when a woman came

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running across her front yard frantically flagging him down. The woman,

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Lanta Clayton, was hysterical. She said her husband Steve, had

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fallen down the stairs. She thought he was dead. She

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asked the stranger to call nine one one, and then

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she ran off to the next door neighbor's house.

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Tobolic sank, did you mean to thank missus Amber, Yes, ma'am.

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Mom down at Lake Wiley, Holy Father takes island pull Trod,

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I was just riding by, and a warman came running

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out and said her husband fell down the steps, and

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she thinks he.

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Did so A named an ambulance.

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Okay, and so the female flagged it down, said her

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husband set on the stamps.

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She was hysterical, so I think you might be gone.

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Okay, glad, do you have everyone coming light? You're tiring.

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I know you don't want to bother her. Has he

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been stick recently?

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Kitty had verdigergo. The neighbor that Lana ran over to see. Terry.

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Floyd was close friends with Lana and Steve. Lana pounded

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so hard on his door that he thought it was

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going to break. She could hardly tell Terry what was wrong.

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She just kept saying, it's Steve, It's Steve. The two

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jumped down to Terry's golf cart and zipped over to

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the Clayton's house. Terry went in and saw his friend

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Steve Clayton lying at the base of the stairs. Terry

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tried to get a pulse, but there was nothing. Steve

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Clayton was dead at sixty four. Soon the police and

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paramedics showed up, followed by the York County Deputy Coroner,

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Based on an initial assessment of the scene, it seemed

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like a heart attack was the most likely cause of death.

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Steve's age, combined with his weight of two hundred and

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sixty pounds, the lack of anything that seemed suspicious at

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the scene, and Lana's account of the vertigo attack that

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Steve had been suffering from for the past few days

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all seemed to point in that direction. But when Steve's

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family members showed up on the scene, there were some

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things that didn't add up. Why had Lana run out

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and flagged down a stranger instead of calling nine one

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one herself.

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I was wondering that.

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And Lana was a nurse, Why wasn't she attempting CPR?

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And why did she push to have Steve's body cremated

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so quickly after his death. It would be a race

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against time for the family to get answers before it

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was too late. Stephen Clayton was born in May nineteen

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fifty four in Miami Beach, Florida. His family didn't have

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a lot of money and worked hard to make ends meet.

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Stephen was driven to make a better life for himself,

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and he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. In high school,

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he was a celebrated athlete, taking up track, football, and wrestling.

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He worked his way through college at Florida State University,

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doing construction work while earning his business degree and then

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becoming a certified public accountant. Before turning thirty, he founded

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a company, Physical Therapy Resources, which grew quickly, establishing brandanches

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throughout the country. At age forty one, he sold his

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company from millions of dollars and retired a wealthy man.

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But even in retirement, Steve kept busy. His goal in

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retirement was to give back and help young entrepreneurs through

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philanthropy and pro bono consulting. In addition to giving back,

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Steve had a diverse array of interests. He was, in

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many ways a larger than life character. I'm going to

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read a bit from his obituary. Stephen was a truly

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magnanimous man, and his broad circle of friends was infinitely diverse.

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He enjoyed spending time in the company of gardeners and

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janitors as much as he did with captains of industry

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and finance moguls. He had no mere acquaintances, as everyone

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he befriended became part of his enormous extended family. It

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was not uncommon to find Stephen on the phone at

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all hours of the day and night, freely giving of

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his time and abundant wisdom to all who sought his counsel.

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His age did not define him. He was genuinely a

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kid at heart, energetic fun, and always ready to lead

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the next adventure. His exuberance for life, his captivating stories,

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and his irreverent sense of humor will be greatly missed

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by all who knew him. Steve was also an officionado

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of music, wine and cigars, a brilliant writer, a collector

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of fine art and sculpture, an avid golfer, and a

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true sports fan. He was a proud booster of Florida

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State University football, generously supporting his much loved seminoles throughout

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the decades. Stephen cared deeply for children and was a

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wrestling coach at University of South Florida and Tampa American

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Heritage Academy and Cardinal Gibbons. He was a loving mentor

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to countless youth, devotedly following each of their journeys into

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adulthood and remaining in close contact. Virtually all of the

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youth who were mentored by Stephen have gone on to

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become highly successful in their chosen fields. There are simply

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not enough superlatives in the English language to honor Steve

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as he deserves. But those who knew the essence of

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his heart will attest that it was a privilege beyond

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measure to have known this generous and loving man. His

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family and friends will forever remember his laughter and celebrate

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him for as long as we live. Seems like just

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a really just a great guy, and just such a

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diverse array of interests. Kind of a renaissance man, very successful,

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but always giving back to others as well.

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Sounds like a great man.

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The one area of his life where Stephen was not

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so successful was in finding love. Friends and families say

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that they lost count of how many times Stephen was

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married before he met Lana. Most estimated around six times. Oh,

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but even his ex wives had nothing bad to say

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about Stephen. Some of them still said he had been

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the love of their lives even after the marriages ended.

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Stephen met Lana Sue Walsh through an online dating site

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in twenty ten. The two were living in North Carolina

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at the time. Lana, twelve years younger than Steve, was

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a nurse with a Veteran's Administration, helping sick and wounded

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veterans make the transition back into civilian life. Steve liked

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that Lana had a caring spirit and didn't seem to

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place a lot of value on money. She didn't wear

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expensive clothes, she didn't carry a nice handbag. Material things

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didn't seem to mean much to her. His family liked

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Lana as well, and felt like Lena would be there

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to help Stephen if he needed it as he got older.

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Lana and Stephen got married in Charlotte, North Carolina, in

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November twenty thirteen. Soon after they married, the couple bought

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a house just across the border in South Carolina on

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Lake Wilie. It was a beautiful home modeled on George

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Washington's Mount Vernon Mansion. Oh wow, did you see pictures

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of this house?

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Yes, we will. I will post a picture of it.

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Is it amazing?

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It's beautiful. Yeah.

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It was situated on a couple of acres with a

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dock and a boat. He and Lana spent the next

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00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:54.519
few years renovating the mansion. The house was valued at

241
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.600
eight hundred twenty two thousand at the time of Stephen's death.

242
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Stephen also owned the lot next door are valued at

243
00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:03.879
three hundred and eighty five thousand. There were always people

244
00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:07.399
around at the Clayton's Lake Wilie home. Although Steven never

245
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:10.080
had children of his own, he loved it when family

246
00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:13.120
and friends would bring their kids over. There were always

247
00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:17.399
parties with music, kids and dogs running around, dancing, and

248
00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.039
Stephen at the center of it all telling stories and jokes.

249
00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.360
Just a couple of weeks before Stephen's death, he held

250
00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:27.080
his annual Fourth of July bash. It was a big

251
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.080
party with a dance floor set up in the yard

252
00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.960
and fire works over the lake. In video from the event,

253
00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:36.440
Stephen and Lana can be seen dancing together. Most people

254
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.840
who knew them thought they were deeply in love, but

255
00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:44.039
there were a few people who knew differently. Doctor Nan Say,

256
00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:46.840
a veterinarian who came to the house regularly to look

257
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:51.440
after Stephen's beloved greyhound dogs, Guinness and Sadie, later said

258
00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.200
that she never saw them talk to each other. She

259
00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:57.399
couldn't understand why they were married, and just weeks before

260
00:12:57.399 --> 00:13:01.000
his death, Stephen had confided in his next Chris, that

261
00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.200
his marriage was in trouble. It didn't seem to be

262
00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:06.960
working out the way that Stephen had thought it would.

263
00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:10.159
When Steve was younger, he had a near fatal scuba

264
00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:13.919
diving accident in the Bahamas. He ascended too quickly from

265
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.600
the dive, causing a serious case of the Benz. The Benz,

266
00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:21.480
also known as decompression sickness, occurs when dissolved gases formed

267
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:25.039
bubbles in the body due to a rapid decrease in pressure.

268
00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:30.000
The Benz can be extremely painful and can cause rashes, paralysis,

269
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.759
and even death. Permanent damage can occur as well, including

270
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:38.759
neurological problems, immobility, chronic pain, and, in Steve's case, outs

271
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:42.360
of sickness and vertigo. Steve had gone through a physical

272
00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:46.159
rehabilitation program after getting the benz, but he still occasionally

273
00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.200
had debilitating battles with vertigo. In June twenty eighteen, one

274
00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.720
month prior to his death, he was out working in

275
00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:55.320
the yard when he suddenly got dizzy and developed severe

276
00:13:55.480 --> 00:13:58.840
ear pain. It was so intense he needed help getting inside.

277
00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:02.320
He spent the next thirty six hours in bed, mostly sleeping,

278
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.960
before he finally felt better. Three days before his death.

279
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:09.840
Lana said that he suffered another debilitating vertigo attack and

280
00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:13.000
had mostly been in bed feeling nauseous and dizzy until

281
00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:15.799
the day of his death. Vertigo seems like one of

282
00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:17.399
those mysterious illnesses.

283
00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:20.279
Yeah, I don't think it's like an illness on its own.

284
00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.919
It's like a symptom of something else usually.

285
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.000
But I think sometimes they don't know what is.

286
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:28.519
Causing Yeah, vertigo exactly. It sounds It sounds really bad though.

287
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:32.159
On July twenty first, twenty eighteen, Lana said that she

288
00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.120
checked on Steve around eleven that morning and found him

289
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.639
asleep in his bed. She made sure he had water

290
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:39.840
and his medications on the table next to his bed,

291
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.360
and then she went out to mow the lawn. When

292
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.000
she finished and went back inside, she said that she

293
00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:48.159
saw Steve lying at the bottom of the stairs. Frantic,

294
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.559
she ran out and flagged down a man riding by

295
00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:54.120
in his motorcycle. He called nine one one while Leanna

296
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.159
ran to the neighbor's house. Terry Floyd went back to

297
00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.639
the house with Lana and checked Steve for a pulse,

298
00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:04.120
but didn't find one. Soon after the emergency personnel arrived,

299
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.720
Steve was pronounced dead. The police did a quick look

300
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.600
through the house and found nothing that raised any red flags.

301
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.799
It did not appear that Steve had fallen down the stairs.

302
00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:16.519
There was a carpet runner that ran down the middle

303
00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.279
of the steps, and it appeared undisturbed. Steve's body had

304
00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:23.759
a few small abrasions, but nothing that indicated a tumble

305
00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:27.399
down the stairs. The deputy coroner, who had arrived at

306
00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.200
the scene concluded that Steve had probably walked down the

307
00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:35.559
stairs and then collapsed, most likely from a heart attack. Paramedics,

308
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.440
deputies from the Sheriff's department, and a couple of neighbors

309
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:42.200
all did their best to console Lana. She expressed that

310
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:44.480
she felt guilty for not checking on him for the

311
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.519
two hours she was out mowing the lawn. They told

312
00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:49.919
her it wasn't her fault. There was nothing she could

313
00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:51.159
have done.

314
00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.600
Steve's nephew, Nick French, was a police officer just across

315
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.519
the border in North Carolina. When he heard about his

316
00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.120
uncle's death, he rushed over and Steve had become close

317
00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:04.720
friends after Nick had married Steve's niece. While the York

318
00:16:04.759 --> 00:16:08.039
County Sheriff's deputies didn't see anything suspicious about the death,

319
00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.000
and the deputy coroner didn't see anything suspicious either. Nick

320
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:15.000
knew his uncle well. Assessing the scene, there were some

321
00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.399
things that didn't quite seem right to him. First, it

322
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:20.960
was odd that Lana didn't call nine one one herself.

323
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.480
There were phones in the house. Why would she run

324
00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.960
outside and flag down a random passerby to call nine

325
00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.120
one one instead of doing it herself. And Lana was

326
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:34.399
a nurse, why hadn't she performed CPR on her husband. Also,

327
00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.639
Steve's cell phone was nowhere to be found. Nick knew

328
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.799
that Steve never went anywhere without his phone. Steve's sister, Rosie,

329
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.200
who lived in Florida, had been trying to reach her

330
00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:47.159
brother for the past three days. He had never replied

331
00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.279
to any of her calls or messages, which wasn't like Steve.

332
00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:55.200
Nick also noted that Lana's behavior seemed off. When Nick

333
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.679
suggested calling another of Steve's nephews, Chris Fagan, to tell

334
00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:01.600
him that Steve had died, Lana said no, she didn't

335
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.559
want Chris to see his uncle that way. Chris was

336
00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:06.920
an adult and he had been very close to Steve,

337
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:11.160
so Nick didn't understand why Lana was so insistent. After

338
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:13.960
repeating his thought that Chris should be called, Lana yelled

339
00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:17.279
at Nick. The behavior seemed strange to him, but people

340
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:21.000
did sometimes behave in strange ways under duress, so maybe

341
00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.160
it was just the stress of the situation. Nick called

342
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:27.880
Chris anyway, and he drove over to the house. Nick

343
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:31.119
noted another strange interaction that Lana had with the deputy

344
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:34.599
coroner that day as well. The coroner was asking Lana

345
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.519
whether she had any thoughts about funeral arrangements. Lana was

346
00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.079
distraught and said, I can't think about that now, it's

347
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:44.039
just too much. The coroner said, that's okay. We can

348
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.240
take Steve's body to the morgue and run some tests.

349
00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:51.599
You can decide on funeral arrangements later. Suddenly Lana was

350
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.640
crystal clear on what she wanted to do. She said, oh,

351
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:56.640
that funeral home, the one down the street. Let's have

352
00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.640
his body taken there. He wanted to be cremated. The

353
00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:03.359
other thing that raised flags for Nick French was when

354
00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:05.559
he went to the bedroom where Steve had been staying

355
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.839
for the past few days since his vertigo attack. The

356
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.039
bed was soaked with the urine to the point where

357
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.599
it had soaked through the mattress and was puddling up

358
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:18.000
on the floor underneath. Nick mentioned this to Lana, who said, oh,

359
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.000
that's what happens when he has vertigo. To Nick, though

360
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.680
it seemed like Steve had been in bed unable to

361
00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:27.359
get up. Someone would have to be severely incapacitated to

362
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.440
stay in that bed for three days. Coupled with the

363
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.039
fact that Steve's cell phone was nowhere to be found,

364
00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:36.680
it made Nick wonder whether Steve had essentially been a captive,

365
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.039
unable to call for help. When Nick got home, he

366
00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.480
talked to his wife. He didn't want to believe it,

367
00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.200
but it felt like something was off about the whole situation.

368
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:49.359
Chris went home and had a similar conversation with his wife.

369
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.960
Nick and his wife then drove over to Chris's house

370
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.680
and said something's wrong. Chris breathed a sigh of relief

371
00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:58.000
because it validated his own suspicions.

372
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:02.400
I'm disturbed by the fact that Lana, a medical professional,

373
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:05.240
would leave her husband and a year in soaked bed.

374
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:07.039
Yeah, it's really as disturbing.

375
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:09.000
The first things you learned in nursing schools how to

376
00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:12.559
change a bad and I don't think anyone would want

377
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:15.039
their loved one to lay in their own urine.

378
00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:16.799
No, you wouldn't think so, And it does seem like,

379
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.880
you know, from everything we've learned up until now, it

380
00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:22.119
does seem like he was He must have been incapacitated,

381
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:25.000
because nobody would lay in a bed soaked with urine

382
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:27.319
unless they couldn't get up. And the fact that he

383
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:29.680
had no cell phone, it just seems like she was

384
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.240
keeping him captive and making sure he wasn't able to

385
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:36.200
call anybody for help or get help from anywhere. So

386
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:38.440
it's really sad that that was, you know, the way

387
00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:40.319
he spent his last three days of his life.

388
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:41.519
Yeah.

389
00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:44.799
At this point, there was no autopsy planned. The death

390
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.640
was not considered suspicious. Steve's body was at the funeral

391
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.000
home and scheduled to be cremated the next day. Nick

392
00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:55.160
and Chris knew that they needed to act fast. Nick

393
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.920
called the coroner's office and requested that they perform an

394
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:02.279
autopsy and a toxicology test. A family member can request

395
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.200
an autopsy, but the final decision lies with the medical

396
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:09.400
examiner or coroner. In this case, although there were officially

397
00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:13.640
no suspicions, the coroner agreed to perform the autopsy. It's

398
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.720
possible that Nick's status as a police officer. Even though

399
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.279
from a different jurisdiction, helped the coroner make the decision

400
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:24.240
to proceed. The coroner's office sent transport to pick Steve's

401
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.200
body up from the funeral home. An autopsy was scheduled

402
00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:30.839
for the following day. Lanna protested because she said that

403
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.880
Steve had been a heavy drug user. She claimed that

404
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.640
she wanted to protect Steve's reputation as a pillar of

405
00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:40.039
the community and that an autopsy would expose his secret

406
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:44.319
drug life. Steve's family knew that he smoked pot regularly,

407
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:47.160
but they weren't aware of any harder drug use. From

408
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.640
the coroner's point of view, if they found cocaine or

409
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.480
meth in his system, that would be a smoking gun

410
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.680
pointing to a heart attack, as sudden cardiac arrest is

411
00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:58.759
consistent with the use of those drugs. The next day's

412
00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:01.880
autopsy didn't raise a red flags for the coroner. It

413
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.279
seemed to confirm that Stephen died a natural death, although

414
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:07.440
there was no smoking gun that proved it was a

415
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:11.920
heart attack. Stephen had a light purplish discoloration from his

416
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:16.480
chest to the top of his head. This typically indicates cyanosis,

417
00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:19.160
which is a medical term for a bluish or purplish

418
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:22.480
skin color caused by low oxygen levels in the blood.

419
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.039
It generally indicates a problem with the heart or the lungs.

420
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.160
The autopsy also showed that Stephen's heart was enlarged. It

421
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.039
weighed seven hundred grams, double the average. His lungs were

422
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:37.640
described as heavy with fluid, another indicator of heart problems.

423
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.960
While Steve had no history of heart disease, he was

424
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.119
a two hundred and sixty pound man who was not

425
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.920
as physically active as he had been in his younger days.

426
00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.519
The coroner was feeling like the initial theory that Stephen

427
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:53.039
had died of natural causes was probably correct. They just

428
00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.119
had to wait for the toxicology results before signing off.

429
00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.480
Stephen's body was released back to the funeral home.

430
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:03.279
In the meantime, the police did a quick background search

431
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.559
on Steve and Lana to see if there were any

432
00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.079
past incidents to be aware of. It turned out that

433
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.119
there was one very curious event that had occurred two

434
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:15.880
years earlier. Steve was sleeping when Lana shot him in

435
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.880
the head with a crossbow. Yes, you heard that correctly.

436
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:23.400
Lana went to the Sheriff's department and reported the incident,

437
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:26.599
she shot him and she went to the shaff yep

438
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:29.279
she did. She and Steve both told the police that

439
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:32.480
it was an accident. Apparently, the couple were planning to

440
00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:35.559
go hunting the next day and Lana was practicing loading

441
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:40.039
the crossbow when it unexpectedly fired. The arrow grazed the

442
00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:41.160
back of Steve's head.

443
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:46.480
How often does that happen? I mean, you're practicing loading

444
00:22:46.519 --> 00:22:49.799
your crossbow in the bedroom and your husband's asleep, and

445
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:51.920
it just happens to go off and it happens to

446
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:52.880
hit him in the head.

447
00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:55.799
Well, if she truly meant to do it, the wouldn't

448
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:56.920
she just shoot another bow?

449
00:22:57.559 --> 00:22:59.880
Well that might then that would look really suspicious, right

450
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.400
to you shot two arrows and you said it was

451
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:04.000
an accident.

452
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:08.240
An investigation concluded that the incident was an accident and

453
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:12.480
no intend to commit a crime was found during questioning. However,

454
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.079
Lana did claim at this time that Steve had been

455
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:19.000
mentally cruel toward her at times during their marriage. None

456
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.039
of Steve's family members had heard about this incident.

457
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.680
Before, So it's kind of a strange incident because I've

458
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:26.559
read a few different things about it, and I don't

459
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.759
know if they're contradictory. But I did read, you know,

460
00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.200
in one place that they said they were going hunting

461
00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:34.599
and it was an accident, and by all accounts, Stephen,

462
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:37.759
you know, believed it was an accident, told the police that.

463
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:40.279
But then I've read other places where Lana is talking

464
00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:43.720
about the fact that Stephen was cruel to her and

465
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.480
like abusive torque and stuff like that, which is strange

466
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:49.200
because why would that even come up, Yeah, if this

467
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:51.839
was an accident or you know, why did she even

468
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:53.880
bring that up? So I'm not quite sure. I fully,

469
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.319
I feel like I fully have all the information about

470
00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.240
this incident, but it's obviously a little bit strange.

471
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:03.160
The arrow just grazed him. He didn't need medical treatment.

472
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:03.640
As far as I know.

473
00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.680
Yeah, the day that Steve died, his nephew Chris came over.

474
00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:11.039
Remember Nick had called him even though Lana didn't want

475
00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.119
him to come. After he got there, Lana said she

476
00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:17.880
would need Chris's help in organizing Steve's affairs. Chris said,

477
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:20.200
the first thing we need is to find his will.

478
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:24.279
That will let us know what Steve's wishes were. Lana

479
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:27.720
told Chris that Steve didn't have a will. Chris said, yes,

480
00:24:27.799 --> 00:24:30.559
he does, I've seen it. Steve had asked him to

481
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.440
be the executor of his estate and showed him the will.

482
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.000
Steve had shown his will to other family members as well,

483
00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:40.799
but Lana stuck to her story. She finally got angry

484
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.759
when Chris continued to insist that there was a will.

485
00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:46.759
She stood up and said, I said there is no

486
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.480
will and walked away. The next day, Chris called Lana

487
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:52.920
and offered to come over and look for the will.

488
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:56.359
Lana said, do not come here. This is my house.

489
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.160
He was my husband. I'll handle everything. Then she you

490
00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:02.960
hung up. If you're an executor of an estate, do

491
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:05.079
you have a copy of the will?

492
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:08.200
Not necessarily. I mean I was the executor of my

493
00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:10.559
mom's estate and she didn't give me a copy of

494
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:12.279
her will. I mean, I think it's probably a good

495
00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:14.839
idea to give a copy of your will to whoever

496
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.359
you name as the executive.

497
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:19.079
Or at least know the attorney as the will exactly,

498
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:21.960
But I don't think it's a requirement. An interesting point

499
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:24.480
about the will, or lack thereof, is the difference between

500
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:28.119
North Carolina and South Carolina law. Remember, Steve and Lana

501
00:25:28.279 --> 00:25:31.079
had lived in North Carolina, but moved across the border

502
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:34.400
to South Carolina a few years before his death. If

503
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.519
someone dies without a will in North Carolina, a probate

504
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.559
court will determine how their finances, properties, or other assets

505
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.519
will be distributed. Usually that means surviving family members split

506
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:49.119
the estate. In South Carolina, however, if a married person

507
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:52.880
dies without a will, the entire estate goes to their spouse.

508
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:57.160
The day after Steve's death, neighbors observed Lana building a

509
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:01.039
fire in the backyard fire pit. Saw the remnants of

510
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:04.240
burned papers in the pit. And there's no telling what

511
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:08.519
the papers were that Lana had destroyed. That's not suspicious, Yeah,

512
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:12.160
not at all. On August fourth, twenty eighteen, thirteen days

513
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:15.920
after Steve's death and before the toxicology test's results were back,

514
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.359
Lana held a memorial service at their house. It was

515
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:23.319
attended by close friends, family, and neighbors. Lana had packed

516
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.039
up all Steve's clothes, boxed up his collection of vinyl records,

517
00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:29.759
and told family members they could take what they wanted.

518
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.920
Steve also owned some valuable art. Lana sold those pieces.

519
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.480
That seems pretty quick to pack up all your belongings

520
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:38.880
and get rid of everything.

521
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.240
Yeah, just another red flag, and her behavior was definitely suspicious.

522
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:47.400
Four weeks after Steve's death, the toxicology results came back.

523
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.000
What it didn't reveal was the presence of any hard drugs,

524
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:56.440
as Lana had claimed. There was tetra hydro canna biden all,

525
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.920
a psychoactive component of marijuana.

526
00:26:59.400 --> 00:26:59.880
Excellent.

527
00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:01.880
Why do you do that like every time? Like I

528
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:04.720
know it's like in your script somewhere. Oh, let Tina

529
00:27:04.759 --> 00:27:05.440
do this word.

530
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.039
I did. I swear I did not plan it that way.

531
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:10.359
But you say it. Oh you did?

532
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:11.720
Great? I don't no, no, no, I.

533
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:12.480
Would like you to say it.

534
00:27:12.519 --> 00:27:13.680
Tetrahydrocannabinol.

535
00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:15.000
Oh, you actually did it.

536
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:18.440
There's more difficult words coming. It's just to warn you.

537
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:19.000
I'm sorry.

538
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:23.680
Well, good thing. I'm a good pronouncer of typicult words.

539
00:27:23.720 --> 00:27:24.039
You are.

540
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:26.240
The amount was small and had likely been in his

541
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.240
system prior to him falling ill three days before his death. Besides,

542
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.640
marijuana is not associated with sudden cardiac arrest. There was

543
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:40.200
also diphen hydromine and into histamine and benzodiazepine valium. Those

544
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:43.359
weren't surprising and the amounts were not significant. The one

545
00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:47.839
that was surprising was tetra hydrozylene. The coroner didn't actually

546
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.039
know what this was, so she had to look it up.

547
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:54.119
Tetra Hydrozylene, also known as t Z, is the active

548
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:58.720
ingredient in vizine and other brands of eye drops. Th

549
00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:02.119
Z how helps to get the red out of irritated

550
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:05.599
eyes by constricting blood vessels in the eye and reducing

551
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:09.720
blood flow. If someone was using vizine by putting drops

552
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:12.720
in their eyes as directed, the amount of thchz in

553
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.920
one's blood might be on the order of one nanogram

554
00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:20.759
per millileterer. The concentration of thchz in Steve's blood was

555
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:27.640
sixty eight nanograms per millileder. Tetrahydrozylene is perfectly safe when

556
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:31.480
used as directed, but if ingested orally, it can be

557
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:37.000
highly dangerous. It can cause nausea, vomiting, reduced heart rate, dizziness,

558
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.200
and confusion. If an entire bottle of vizine is emptied

559
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.880
into someone's drink, it can attack the respiratory system, causing

560
00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:50.960
breathing to slow and possibly resulting in death. It's odorless, colorless,

561
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:54.960
and tasteless. It's rare to see thchz show up on

562
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.160
a toxicology report, but poisoning by THHZ was once used

563
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.559
as a plot point in a CSI episode that aired

564
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.359
in two thousand and two. The presence of TZ at

565
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:10.240
a high concentration in Steve's blood immediately changed the investigation

566
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.720
into his death. Instead of most likely being a heart attack,

567
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:17.240
it was now highly suspicious. The cause of his death

568
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.119
was THHZ poisoning. The only question was how it got

569
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:25.079
into his system. Was it ingested accidentally, did he take

570
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:30.200
it intentionally, or did someone poison him. We'll be back

571
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:40.119
after a break. During the break, I had more of

572
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:43.119
your pimento cheese. It's really good. I just wanted to

573
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:46.400
mention really quick. At Zingerman sometimes they have like bacon,

574
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:48.920
Like they have pimento cheese with bacon. So that might

575
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.519
be a fun addition for the holidays if anyone is

576
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:52.000
going to make.

577
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.160
Pamentas bacon does make most things better, So that sounds good.

578
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:59.480
We'll talk more about tetrahydrosylene at the end of the episode.

579
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:01.960
But it's pretty scary, Like this.

580
00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:03.640
Is so scary. You told me about this, and I

581
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:04.799
keep thinking about it.

582
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:09.839
I know, I know, it's really scary that it's odorless, tasteless, colorless.

583
00:30:10.680 --> 00:30:14.640
You'll buy it at the pharmacy, and yeah, it's really frightening.

584
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:17.039
And there have been other cases. I'll talk about some

585
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.240
of those, but it really is scary that this is

586
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.839
something very easy to obtain and very hard to detect.

587
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:27.440
The coroner called up the York County Sheriff's Department and

588
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:30.720
shared their findings. They decided the next step would be

589
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.119
to bring Lana in for an interview, but rather than

590
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:37.640
a traditional police interrogation, they decided that the coroner would

591
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:41.200
speak with her while the police observed from a separate room.

592
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:43.839
It wasn't uncommon for the coroner to sit down with

593
00:30:43.960 --> 00:30:47.400
next of kin to share autopsy results and ask some questions.

594
00:30:47.960 --> 00:30:50.799
By taking this approach, Lana might be less guarded than

595
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:55.359
if the police were asking the questions. The coroner, Sabrina Gast,

596
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:58.519
was nervous. This was not a typical conversation for her.

597
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:02.039
Lana came in on August twenty ninth. It was five

598
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:04.759
and a half weeks since Steve's death, and Lana came

599
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:08.240
across as confident and assured. If she thought that she

600
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:11.079
was a suspect, she didn't show it. That would all

601
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:15.440
change soon, though. As corner Gast walked through the autopsy

602
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:18.519
and toxicology results. She told Lana that they had found

603
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.319
tetra hydroslene in his system. Lana knew exactly what that

604
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.160
was right away. She said, Oh, that's his vizine. He

605
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.480
would put a couple of drops in his coffee every morning.

606
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:32.160
Someone someone told him that it helped you go to

607
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:35.680
the bathroom. He's been doing it for years. Just a note,

608
00:31:35.799 --> 00:31:38.000
do not do that. It does not help you go

609
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:40.559
to the bathroom, and it's really really bad for you.

610
00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.720
At this point, police officers came in to continue the questioning,

611
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:49.440
surprising Lana, they read her her Miranda rights. Lana now

612
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:50.960
knew that she was in trouble.

613
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:53.759
I feel like, you guys, are you know, doing your

614
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:56.160
job and you're, you know, wondering if I kill my

615
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.680
husband and I did not kill my husband.

616
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:03.799
Immediately her tone changed. First, she started speculating that maybe

617
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:07.599
Steve had died by suicide. Then she shifted her narrative

618
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:10.200
to say that Steve had a mood disorder and that

619
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:13.200
she always had to walk on eggshells around him. When

620
00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:15.480
he got angry, he could be really awful to her.

621
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:18.920
He would be verbally abusive and call her horrible names.

622
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.880
Never mind that no one else in his family, including

623
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:24.920
his ex wives, had ever seen that side of him.

624
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:28.200
As one official later said, the most common reason that

625
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.160
someone would suddenly shift gears and start claiming that their

626
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:36.279
dead spouse was abusive is to begin establishing a defense. Eventually,

627
00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.119
Lana decided that she was done talking without a lawyer,

628
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.960
and the interview ended. Officers informed her that they had

629
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.720
a warrant to search her home and would be following

630
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:48.839
her back there to execute the warrant. On the drive

631
00:32:48.920 --> 00:32:51.079
back to the house, Lana must have thought it over

632
00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:54.960
and decided on a new tactic. When the officers got there,

633
00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:58.119
Lana had something surprising to tell them. How about we

634
00:32:58.200 --> 00:33:01.559
do a little true crime theater. You can be Lana. Okay.

635
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.880
I did not give him marijuana or vellum or benadryl

636
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.279
any of those things. He took those. But I did

637
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:12.599
put vizine in his water. I was taking care of

638
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:15.079
him and everything, but I was just so angry with him,

639
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:17.480
and my girlfriend at work told me, well, you want

640
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:19.440
to get even with somebody, you put vizine in a

641
00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:23.440
drink and it'll cause diarrhea. When I saw that vizine

642
00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:26.279
on the table at his bedside, I just took it

643
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:27.039
and squirted it.

644
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.640
And what did you've squirt it into his water? Into

645
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:31.119
his water?

646
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.440
I think I put the whole thing in the whole bottle.

647
00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:37.640
I think I did. Okay, I squeezed it hard.

648
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:40.119
Okay. So where was he when you did this?

649
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:43.079
He was sleeping. I don't know. I just saw it

650
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:45.680
there and I just did it. I don't have an excuse.

651
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:48.519
I don't have I just did it. What if I

652
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.960
did kill him? What if I caused his death with

653
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.799
a vizine? I just want him to just I just

654
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:57.240
wanted him to suffer. I was just angry. He was

655
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.319
just constantly Lana, come here, or Lana, I'm here, you know,

656
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.480
help me to the bathroom, do this, do that, and everything.

657
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:06.079
It's just all built up.

658
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:09.400
It just all I'll just build up. And I just

659
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:12.280
I just wanted him to have diarrhea. I wanted him

660
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:15.920
to just be miserable. Do you have any idea how

661
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:20.119
Leanna knew that vizine was poisonous? Do we have her

662
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:21.000
internet searches?

663
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:24.960
I never found anything about any Internet searches or anything

664
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.320
like that. She was a nurse, so she did have

665
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.480
some you know, medical knowledge, although I don't think tetrahydroslen

666
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:32.199
is a common well, you said.

667
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:33.960
The coroner even had to look it up.

668
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:35.920
Yeah, according to her, you know, she said her a

669
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:38.719
friend told her that you could put it in someone's drink.

670
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:42.239
There was the CSI episode. She could have potentially seen that.

671
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.760
There is Actually i'll talk about it more at the end,

672
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:49.320
but there's a well known movie that some characters put

673
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:53.840
vizine in someone's drink to make them have diarrhea, and

674
00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:56.440
it's like a funny, it's a comedy, but it's you know.

675
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:58.559
There, Oh, that's kind of that's really scary.

676
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:00.480
It really is. Yeah, we'll talk more about that, but

677
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:03.760
it really is scary. But that was enough for the

678
00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:06.840
Sheriff's department. A clear confession from Lana that she had

679
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:10.280
put vizine in his water, the detectives left to go

680
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.079
and prepare an arrest warrant, charging Lana with murder. The

681
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:17.639
next morning, before detectives arrived to arrest her, Lana wrote

682
00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:20.679
several notes to family and the police, saying she felt

683
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:24.280
bad about poisoning Steve and that she couldn't live with herself.

684
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:27.199
She left the notes on a table outside on the deck,

685
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:30.079
then swallowed some sleeping pills and turned the gas on.

686
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:33.079
A neighbor happened to come by that morning and saw

687
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:35.519
the notes on the deck, along with the business card

688
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:38.519
of the detective on the case. He phoned the detective,

689
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.639
who rushed to the scene and found her breathing but unconscious.

690
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:46.360
Paramedics arrived and transported her to the hospital. There, her

691
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:48.760
stomach was pumped and she was soon turned over to

692
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:51.920
the police. The amount of pills she had taken wasn't

693
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.079
enough to kill her, as the prosecutor later said, it

694
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:58.000
was more of a suicide gesture than a serious attempt,

695
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:00.280
perhaps an attempt at gaining simple.

696
00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:04.119
Is Lena's trial grew near her claims of abuse by

697
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:07.920
Steve grew more serious. Where As she initially said he

698
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.440
was verbally abusive, now she claimed he physically abused her

699
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:14.639
as well. Again, there was absolutely no evidence that this

700
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:18.079
was true, and none of Steve's ex wives or girlfriends

701
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:21.639
had anything bad to say about him. She also claimed

702
00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:24.119
to have been a victim of sexual abuse in the past.

703
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:27.719
Before she met Stephen. She said she had been sexually

704
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:32.320
assaulted throughout her youth and that those incidents had gone unreported. Then,

705
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.880
after enlisting in the Air force. She said that she

706
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:38.760
had been raped by three servicemen. This also went unreported.

707
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.599
She claimed that Steve's abusive treatment of her triggered the

708
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:44.920
trauma that she had suffered in the past, and it

709
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:48.599
caused her to snap. Leanna also changed her story about

710
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:52.079
the crossbow incidents to support her claims. While she and

711
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:54.800
Stephen had both told the police at this time that

712
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:58.880
it was an accident, now Lana said it was self defense. Quote.

713
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:01.760
I was trying to protet myself from him because he

714
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:04.679
was coming at me, and I had picked up the

715
00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:07.320
crossbow and turned and I just shot it.

716
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.039
At him, which is strange because he was shot in

717
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:11.599
the back of the head too, So if he was

718
00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:13.880
coming at her, I don't know how she would have

719
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:15.119
shot him in the back of the head.

720
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.079
Yeah. While Lanna claimed that she squeezed raisine into Steve's

721
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:21.920
water one time in a fit of anger, the prosecution

722
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.880
had a different theory. Based on the evidence, they believed

723
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:29.679
that she incapacitated him with a smaller dose. That's why

724
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:32.079
he was in bed for three days prior to his death,

725
00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:35.079
unable to get up and unable to use the bathroom.

726
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:38.719
Lana took his phone from him it had never been located,

727
00:37:38.840 --> 00:37:42.199
so he couldn't call for help. Then she gradually rammed

728
00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.679
up the doses of the tetrahydrosylene that she was giving him.

729
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:48.199
On the day that he died, they speculated that he

730
00:37:48.280 --> 00:37:50.760
knew what she was doing and used every last bit

731
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:54.119
of strength he had to get up and try to escape.

732
00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:56.320
He made it as far as the bottom of the stairs,

733
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:59.679
where he collapsed and died. In terms of motive, the

734
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:03.440
secutor believed that Steve was planning to leave Lana. As

735
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:06.280
we mentioned earlier, he had confided to people close to

736
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.360
him that things weren't great in their marriage, having some

737
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:13.679
wealth and having been married several times before. Steve had

738
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:16.960
made Lana sign a prenup when they were married, meaning

739
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:18.840
that she was not going to get as much in

740
00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:21.480
a divorce, so she would get more if he was

741
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:22.320
dead than if.

742
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:23.480
She had divorced him exactly.

743
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.840
Some of Steve's family members have speculated that Lana had

744
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.679
been planning on killing Steve for some time. In fact,

745
00:38:29.800 --> 00:38:32.960
the move from North Carolina to South Carolina may have

746
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:36.559
been part of her plan. As we mentioned earlier, South

747
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:39.880
Carolina law states that if someone dies into state, meaning

748
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:43.519
without a will, the spouse gets everything. That's different from

749
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.039
North Carolina law, where a probate court usually distributes the

750
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.760
assets among surviving family members, So it's possible that Lana

751
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:54.280
knew this and convinced Steve to buy the house in

752
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:58.440
South Carolina. His will, which several relatives claimed to have seen,

753
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:02.639
was never located. It's believed that Lana burned any copies

754
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:05.639
of it, along with many of Steve's other papers and

755
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:09.360
a bonfire the day after his death. Instead of going

756
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:12.559
to trial, Lana reached a plea deal with the prosecutors.

757
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:17.159
On January sixteenth, twenty twenty, she pleaded guilty to voluntary

758
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:21.559
manslaughter along with malicious tampering of food. Here is part

759
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:22.880
of her statement in court.

760
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:27.679
I want to apologize to Stephen's family. I did impulsibly

761
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.320
put the vising in step and strength, and I did

762
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.320
it with the intent to make him sick and uncomfortable.

763
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.119
I was upset about the abuse and just wanted him

764
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:38.280
to lay me alone.

765
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:42.920
I never thought it would kill him. I had never

766
00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:44.400
heard of vis him deadly.

767
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:47.199
After finding out the vising was a cause of death,

768
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:51.159
I attempted to take my life as well. I couldn't

769
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:54.760
live with the thought that he did such a terrible thing.

770
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.840
Prosecutors called her claims of abuse and that she just

771
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:02.159
wanted to make him unc comfortable a sham. Quote. Having

772
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:05.920
destroyed Stephen Clayton himself, Lana sue Clayton comes to court

773
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:09.400
trying to destroy his reputation. He's not here to say

774
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:12.199
anything about it because she killed him.

775
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:15.440
Do you think she was truly remorseful based on the

776
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:17.280
short clip that you heard of her statement.

777
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:19.400
I think she was remorseful that she got caught.

778
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:19.800
Yeah.

779
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:24.239
The sentencing guidelines were anywhere from two to fifty years.

780
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:27.679
Lana's public defender argued for a sentence between two and

781
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:31.679
five years, arguing, quote, we believe it was one time

782
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:36.119
with no premeditation and was done after incidents of verbal abuse.

783
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:39.679
He also argued that the sexual abuse Lana claimed to

784
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:43.320
have endured in her past should be taken into account.

785
00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:46.199
In the end, Lana was sentenced to twenty five years

786
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:49.920
in prison. The judge said, quote, how can you maintain

787
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.400
you did this to teach him a lesson when it

788
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:55.280
is obvious from the facts you let him suffer for

789
00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:00.599
three days, you ignored him. Another court ruled that she

790
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.639
was not entitled to any money from Steve's estate.

791
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:06.840
I want to talk more about tetra hydroslen, but before

792
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:08.320
we get to that, I have a couple of questions

793
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.440
for you. First of all, do you think that if

794
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.239
Steve's nephew had not been a police officer, do you

795
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:16.840
think she would have gotten away with it?

796
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:20.519
Oh? I do I think so. I mean, he insisted

797
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:23.760
on having the autopsy, and had there not been an autopsy,

798
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:26.280
they wouldn't have found the Yeah.

799
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.239
Yeah, I wonder if, like, if he hadn't been a

800
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:31.760
police officer, if he had just been a regular Joe

801
00:41:31.760 --> 00:41:34.440
Schmoe and had insisted on the autopsy, if they would

802
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.239
have done the autopsy or if they would have ignored that.

803
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:39.960
I will never know whether that would have happened or not.

804
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:42.239
But I would think of a family member as adamant

805
00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:44.639
that they want an autopsy, that one would be performed.

806
00:41:44.679 --> 00:41:45.519
Yeah, you would hope. So.

807
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:48.159
I really have no idea how many people in the

808
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:51.440
United States are cremated versus buried. But it's crazy that

809
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.880
a lot of crimes can be covered up once the

810
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:55.440
body is cremated.

811
00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:58.400
Yeah, it is. It does seem like that's almost a

812
00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:02.079
red flag. If somebody put to have cremation done really quickly,

813
00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:05.639
and I think in Steve's case, I think relatives were

814
00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:08.840
doubtful that he had actually wanted to be cremated. I

815
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.360
think that was maybe another red flag in their mind,

816
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:14.400
was they thought that he probably didn't want to be

817
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:17.280
and that he wanted a funeral, you know, with friends

818
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:20.440
and viewing and all that kind of thing. So, yeah,

819
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:22.519
it does seem to happen a lot in the cases

820
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:23.159
we talk about.

821
00:42:24.199 --> 00:42:27.440
In the United States, the cremation rate is steadily increasing

822
00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:31.079
and is projected to reach approximately sixty one point nine

823
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:34.599
percent in twenty twenty four. Wow, I didn't realize it

824
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:35.320
was more than half.

825
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:38.199
Yeah, I wouldn't have thought that either. We talked about

826
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:41.239
it briefly. There was some speculation from Stephen's family that

827
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:44.440
maybe maybe she had been planning this for a long time,

828
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:46.880
and maybe that's why she wanted to move from North

829
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:49.719
Carolina to South Carolina. What do you think about that

830
00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:51.800
it was, I mean, it was a few years before

831
00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:54.280
he died that they made that move, But do you

832
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.000
think that's a possibility that she had been kind of

833
00:42:57.039 --> 00:42:59.920
planning it out that long and figured that it would

834
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:02.119
be better if they were in South Carolina.

835
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:05.960
Well, Steve was no stranger to divorce and breakups, right,

836
00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:08.880
So if he was unhappy, would he have divorced her?

837
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:11.039
Or was he like, oh, I've been divorced so many times,

838
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:14.440
I need to keep this marriage together. Yeah, So it

839
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.719
seems like if she had been planning it for years,

840
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:17.519
you know, if.

841
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:21.840
They were probably unhappy earlier, then yeah, that I don't

842
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:24.239
think that theory makes sense either. It just seems like

843
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:26.880
that would have been that's a really long game to play,

844
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:29.159
Like it was at least three years before he died

845
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:31.719
that they moved, and I just don't think that she

846
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:34.119
probably planned that far in advance. And like you said,

847
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:36.800
if their marriage was really bad even at that point,

848
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:39.159
he probably would have left and divorced her.

849
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:41.960
You mentioned earlier that she wasn't materialistic.

850
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:42.440
Mm hmm.

851
00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:46.480
So why, I mean, why did she kill him?

852
00:43:46.719 --> 00:43:49.639
Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, being materialistic is

853
00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:52.239
one thing, but also feeling afraid that you're going to

854
00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.760
be left out in the cold after a divorce without

855
00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:57.079
getting any money as another thing. So it could be

856
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.800
that she just was afraid of, you know, being broke.

857
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:02.400
But she did have a job, I mean, she had

858
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:05.719
a decent job and a career, so unfortunately we'll never

859
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:06.519
know for sure.

860
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.719
Well, financial security is a pretty good motive, even if

861
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:13.000
you're not materialistic, just having enough money to live out

862
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:13.960
the rest of your years.

863
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.800
Yeah. Do you think twenty five years was a fair

864
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:18.159
sentence for what Lenna did?

865
00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:21.039
Do you know when she'll be eligible for parole?

866
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:22.280
I don't.

867
00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:24.880
I mean, if she's in her fifties, I think that

868
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:29.039
seems fair. I just googled it and South Carolina does

869
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.599
not have a second degree murder charge, because I would

870
00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:33.760
think that would be a second degree murder charge rather

871
00:44:33.800 --> 00:44:36.239
than voluntary manslaughter. But that's just how they do it

872
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:39.679
right in South Carolina. That might be a fair sentence,

873
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:44.920
But I always feel if your actions intentionally killed someone,

874
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:46.480
that should mean life in prison.

875
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:48.559
Yeah, I mean I can see a case for that.

876
00:44:48.639 --> 00:44:52.519
It's voluntary manslaughter, so it means that she did it intentionally.

877
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:55.360
So yeah, yeah, I don't believe that she just thought

878
00:44:55.440 --> 00:44:57.400
she was giving him a bad case of diarrhea.

879
00:44:57.400 --> 00:44:59.679
No, I don't think. I don't believe that either. Do

880
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.039
you want to talk a bit more about tetra hydrosylen

881
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:04.159
because I do think one of the most interesting things

882
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:07.599
about this case is that a common, easy to obtain

883
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.239
product like vizine can be used to poison someone.

884
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:11.880
That scares me a lot.

885
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.840
It does, and not only that, but as we mentioned,

886
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:19.760
it's odorless, colorless, and tasteless, and it's not routinely tested

887
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:23.360
for in a standard autopsy, so it's generally only tested

888
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.679
for in specific cases where there is suspicion of poisoning

889
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:30.920
or overdose, or if there are unusual circumstances surrounding a death.

890
00:45:31.679 --> 00:45:34.400
I'm actually not sure why the lab doing Stephen Clayton's

891
00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:38.719
toxicology test included tetrahydrosylene as one of the substances tested

892
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:43.000
for because his death didn't seem suspicious, but perhaps because

893
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:45.679
Nick French, who was a police officer, asked for the

894
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.920
autopsy to be done, maybe they decided to test more

895
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:53.320
broadly to include less common toxins. In any case, it

896
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:56.239
made me wonder how often tetrahydrosylene is used as a

897
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.800
poison I did find one study that was done. It

898
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:03.519
looked at all cases from one particular lab in Pennsylvania

899
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:06.480
over an eleven year span from twenty ten to twenty

900
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:09.719
twenty one. I'm not sure how many total cases they

901
00:46:09.719 --> 00:46:12.119
looked at, but one hundred and twenty nine of them

902
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:16.639
tested positive for tetra hydrozolen Of those, only ten were

903
00:46:16.639 --> 00:46:20.639
in concentrations greater than one hundred nanograms per mill leader.

904
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:23.679
In those, In one of those cases, the person was

905
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:27.000
still living. Two others were from what was determined to

906
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.239
be a dual suicide. So that left a pretty small

907
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:33.519
handful that were potentially homicides, so not that many, but

908
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:37.239
that's just one lab. I did find a few other

909
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:41.239
cases of homicide by tetra hydrosolene poisoning. One of those

910
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:44.599
occurred just three weeks after Lana's arrest and just twelve

911
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:47.599
miles away in the town of Mount Holly, North Carolina.

912
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:50.880
It's very possible that the perpetrator in that case heard

913
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:53.519
about the Lana Clayton case on the news and was

914
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:57.280
inspired by it. In that case, a paramedic name Joshua

915
00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:00.280
Hunsucker is accused of killing his wife, thirty two year

916
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:03.719
old Stacy Hunsucker, by adding eye drops to her water.

917
00:47:04.400 --> 00:47:06.880
The cause of her death was initially ruled a heart attack.

918
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:11.000
Hunsucker refused to allow an autopsy to be performed on Stacy,

919
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:13.639
saying that he did not want her to be cut up,

920
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:15.800
despite the fact that she had agreed to be an

921
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:19.280
organ donor. He had her cremated. Soon after her death,

922
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:23.039
Hunsucker collected almost two hundred and fifty thousand dollars in

923
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:27.519
life insurance. Stacy's mother grew suspicious and contacted the life

924
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:32.559
insurance company, which resulted in an insurance fraud investigation. The

925
00:47:32.599 --> 00:47:36.320
only reason Hunsucker was caught was because it was eventually

926
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:40.320
discovered that a private organ donation company had vials of

927
00:47:40.360 --> 00:47:44.239
Stacy's blood in storage, which were found and tested thanks

928
00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:48.320
to the insurance fraud investigation. The test results showed levels

929
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:51.199
of tetri drosalne of thirty to forty times the amount

930
00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:55.480
that would be expected from using vizin as directed in

931
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:59.679
that case. Hunsucker is still awaiting trial in another case

932
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:03.360
in so Bourbon, Milwaukee, Jesse Krzuski, a thirty seven year

933
00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:06.280
old woman, was charged with homicide in twenty twenty one

934
00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.920
for killing her friend Lynn Hernan, who died in twenty

935
00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:14.039
eighteen at the age of sixty two. Krzuski had supposedly

936
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:17.320
been helping to care for Lynn, who had serious medical issues,

937
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:20.639
but instead she had been stealing money from Hernan over

938
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:23.639
the course of several years, and then she poisoned her

939
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:27.960
with tetra hydroslene. Krezuski tried to convince the police that

940
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:30.760
her friend had died of suicide, but when the police

941
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:33.079
discovered that she had stolen one hundred and forty four

942
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:36.000
thousand dollars from her friend, they came to believe it

943
00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:40.239
was homicide. Krezuski was convicted earlier in twenty twenty four

944
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:44.079
and sentenced to life in prison. In the movie Wedding

945
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:47.000
Crashers that's the movie I mentioned earlier, there's a scene

946
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:50.000
where Owen Wilson's character adds eye drops to the drink

947
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:53.679
of Bradley Cooper's character with the intent of causing gastro

948
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:58.719
intestinal discomfort and diarrhea, and it works. In twenty nineteen,

949
00:48:58.760 --> 00:49:01.880
a North Carolina woman in inspired by the movie, squirted

950
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:05.480
eye drops into her fiance's Coca Cola. He saw her

951
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.679
do it, and then he locked himself and their baby

952
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:11.159
in the bathroom and called nine one one. The woman

953
00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:14.119
initially denied the allegations, but then she said she did

954
00:49:14.119 --> 00:49:16.519
it to make him sick, saying that she wanted to

955
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:19.519
take her daughter and move out she was charged with

956
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:23.760
distributing a noxious or deleterious substance that might be injurious

957
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:28.239
to a person's health or might cause physical discomfort. So

958
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:31.639
interesting examples, but I just wanted to bring those up

959
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:35.480
because I think given how easy it is to access tetrahydrosylene,

960
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:39.280
the fact that it's colorless, tasteless, and odorless, and the

961
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:43.599
fact that deaths by tetrahydrosylen can often be mistakenly attributed

962
00:49:43.639 --> 00:49:46.760
to heart disease, it's a bit surprising that it's not

963
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:50.159
routinely tested for in autopsies. So I'm not sure if.

964
00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:53.079
Or the vizine should be a controlled substance.

965
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:56.559
Yeah, exactly, Like maybe you should require a prescription because

966
00:49:56.599 --> 00:49:59.760
then you would know if somebody was using it or

967
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:04.239
had So Yeah, it's really that was a really disturbing

968
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:08.639
aspect of this case because yeah, it's just it's just scary.

969
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:11.199
Yeah, we have iszene in the house. Well, I mean,

970
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.960
I guess there's any number of chemicals in your house

971
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:16.519
that could potentially kill you, but the fact that it

972
00:50:16.599 --> 00:50:18.480
is odorless and tastes yeah.

973
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.599
And I know you can't test for everything. I was

974
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:24.480
reading other cases where like oldiander was used to poison someone.

975
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:27.880
And there's a lot of substances that you know aren't

976
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:32.239
routinely tested for in an autopsy unless there's some suspicion.

977
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:35.159
But it seems like in this case, unless it's really

978
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.039
difficult or expensive to test for it, it just seems

979
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:40.679
like it's probably something that should be a little more

980
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:45.239
routine than it is. Johnson and Johnson, the makers of vizine,

981
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:47.679
they gave a statement to forty eight Hours when they

982
00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:51.159
were putting together their episode on this case. It's said,

983
00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:54.320
in part quote, we're deeply saddened to learn of this

984
00:50:54.440 --> 00:50:57.360
news and are devastated that anyone would use our product

985
00:50:57.400 --> 00:51:01.840
for such an abhorrent act. Using tech hydrosolene the active ingredient,

986
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.599
and vizine on the surface of the eye has been

987
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:07.280
demonstrated to be safe for self use for more than

988
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:11.239
fifty years. Vizine is clearly labeled for external use only

989
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:16.760
and should never be swallowed. AIKES Rest in peace, Stephen.

990
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:26.320
It's been thirty years since Jean Beney Ramsey was found

991
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:32.320
dead in her home, and John Ramsey has been everywhere recently,

992
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:34.679
a lot of podcasts, and I think there's a new

993
00:51:34.719 --> 00:51:39.800
Netflix series, and there's been some new evidence or a

994
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:42.280
new possible suspect. What do you think about that? Have

995
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:43.599
you had time to look into it?

996
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.320
Honestly, I haven't looked into it a lot. I did

997
00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:48.719
read a little bit about it, but it does seem

998
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:50.760
very interesting based on what I read, I should dive

999
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:54.719
into it further. But apparently it's supposedly a guy who

1000
00:51:54.840 --> 00:51:59.000
was hired by some of John Ramsey's ex employees, and

1001
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:02.639
he talked to John Ramsey at some point and told

1002
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:05.880
him information like things he had seen inside the house

1003
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:08.800
that someone wouldn't have known, and that he said he

1004
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:09.719
wrote the ransom note.

1005
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:10.840
Oh yeah, that's right.

1006
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:13.199
Yeah, but that's about all I've read about it. It seems

1007
00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:14.760
intriguing for sure.

1008
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:19.079
I've never quite bought the theory that a family member

1009
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:23.079
did it, So for me, any new information, yeah, I'm

1010
00:52:23.079 --> 00:52:25.119
willing to take a look at it.

1011
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:28.519
Yeah. Same. The thing that I always have gotten stuck

1012
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:30.440
on is the ransom note, because it just didn't make

1013
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:33.519
sense that some intruder would come in and spend a

1014
00:52:33.559 --> 00:52:36.960
half hour or whatever it took. Yeah, that just didn't

1015
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:40.000
make sense. But if this theory is correct, if it

1016
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:43.760
was really some kind of retribution from people that work

1017
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:46.039
for him or whatever. Then that makes at least a

1018
00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:46.440
little more.

1019
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:48.280
Sense when you always point to the ransom note, like

1020
00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:52.639
how did they know the amount of hisstmas? And that

1021
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:54.800
does give that a little more clarity.

1022
00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:57.840
Yeah for sure. Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens,

1023
00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:00.400
and I will read more about it because I I

1024
00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:03.480
was obsessed with that case many years ago, and I

1025
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:05.840
should probably dive back into it.

1026
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:08.599
Really, are you saying that you're gonna know, we're gonna

1027
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:08.840
do it?

1028
00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:10.280
Making no commitments, but.

1029
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:12.559
I mean, I think at this point, like there's so

1030
00:53:12.719 --> 00:53:16.480
much new information or new I don't know if anyone

1031
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:19.639
needs or wants us to cover the case. True, I

1032
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:22.760
don't know how they decide what is tested and what

1033
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:25.440
is not tested. But there's still items like I believe

1034
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:30.039
the note has never been tested, so let's test that evidence.

1035
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:32.840
I think if John, who just turned eighty one, if

1036
00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:35.920
he's given you know, a little more clarity as to

1037
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:39.119
what happened, I think that would be great for him to,

1038
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:43.039
you know, leave this earth knowing what happened to his daughter. Yeah,

1039
00:53:43.079 --> 00:53:45.880
for sure, we have a few more questions from or

1040
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.559
ask me anything. Do you want to answer those. Sure,

1041
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:50.880
what is your skincare routine?

1042
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:54.519
Oh? Man, that's good. How much time do we have? Really?

1043
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:58.000
That was asked by our daughter.

1044
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:02.480
I believe really, she probably wants to know your skincare routine.

1045
00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:04.239
No, I think she knows my skincare routine.

1046
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:06.840
My skincare routine is pretty basic.

1047
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.360
I bought you some stuff, and then you didn't use it.

1048
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:10.599
Really use it occasionally?

1049
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:13.440
Does not how skincare works? You need to use it

1050
00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:17.400
twice a day. No, that doesn't.

1051
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:19.199
That's not how okay?

1052
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:22.599
And then you said, like recently, maybe I should ask

1053
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:26.800
for some for Christmas? Yeah, what are you looking for specifically?

1054
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:29.400
I just want my skin to look radiant.

1055
00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:33.039
It's honestly pretty annoying because your skin looks pretty good.

1056
00:54:33.079 --> 00:54:35.880
I think in the history of our relationship you've had

1057
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:37.760
like a pimple twice.

1058
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:39.719
Yeah. I don't do a whole lot to my skin,

1059
00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:40.679
to be honest.

1060
00:54:40.440 --> 00:54:42.920
I mean you could, you could have a little more moisture, I.

1061
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:46.079
Guess, great question.

1062
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:51.400
Yeah, thank somma. What's the secret to a long, happy marriage?

1063
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:53.559
I can tell you what the secret to a long

1064
00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:54.119
marriage is.

1065
00:54:56.519 --> 00:54:58.760
Wow, I'm just kidding.

1066
00:54:58.840 --> 00:54:59.920
What do you what do you think?

1067
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:02.480
I was going to make a joke about pretending that

1068
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:07.880
you're always right, but pretending exactly. But the real answer,

1069
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:11.760
I think it comes down to communication and just being

1070
00:55:12.039 --> 00:55:15.440
as open as possible with each other and sharing, you know,

1071
00:55:15.920 --> 00:55:16.800
when things.

1072
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:18.639
Are I think you have to marry a person that

1073
00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:23.119
you like and a person that I mean, it starts

1074
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:24.519
with that first choice.

1075
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:26.559
Right, Yeah. The tricky thing is, though I.

1076
00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:31.559
Think, sorry, I can't wait to hear this go ahead.

1077
00:55:31.599 --> 00:55:34.119
Well, the tricky thing is that I think people change

1078
00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:37.320
over the years. Right, So you marry someone when you're

1079
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:39.800
what twenty five or thirty or whatever it is, and

1080
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:42.880
you know the person is going that it's going to

1081
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:45.039
be a different person twenty years from now. But I

1082
00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:48.079
think if you have a good relationship and you have

1083
00:55:48.119 --> 00:55:51.000
good communication between the two of you, then I think

1084
00:55:51.159 --> 00:55:53.480
that can be a good thing that you're both growing

1085
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:54.079
and changing.

1086
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:58.519
And I think there's perspiration in your brow, Like really

1087
00:55:58.679 --> 00:56:02.519
there is about answering. So something that if you cannot

1088
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:05.159
listen to this would be helpful, and I'll answer it

1089
00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:08.000
for our listeners. Something that I realized a few years

1090
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:11.519
ago was that sometimes we expect our spouse to be

1091
00:56:11.559 --> 00:56:14.880
perfect and not realizing our own imperfections, and I think

1092
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:18.079
that frame of reference helped me realize that, you know,

1093
00:56:18.440 --> 00:56:21.840
I shouldn't get angry with you for every little thing,

1094
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:25.440
and that I'm not perfect, so I shouldn't expect you

1095
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:28.800
to be perfect and pick your battles. If something is

1096
00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:31.440
really bothering you, then you have to sincerely. And I

1097
00:56:31.440 --> 00:56:33.079
think we do this not very often, but once in

1098
00:56:33.079 --> 00:56:35.599
a while, I think this is really bothering me, and

1099
00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:40.519
you know we need to talk about this, agreed. Are

1100
00:56:40.519 --> 00:56:43.480
there any true crime books that you recommend to listeners?

1101
00:56:44.119 --> 00:56:45.519
There are a couple that jump out to me of

1102
00:56:45.599 --> 00:56:48.280
cases that we've covered or that I've researched. One is

1103
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:51.960
Secrets of a Marine's Wife that was about the case

1104
00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.280
of Aaron Corwin that we covered probably a year and

1105
00:56:54.320 --> 00:56:57.159
a half ago. Was really really well written book. And

1106
00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:59.719
the other one that jumps to mind is Death on

1107
00:56:59.800 --> 00:57:03.239
Ocean Boulevard, which was about the Rebecca's A Howe case.

1108
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:05.920
Oh okay, again a really interesting one. And then one

1109
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:08.639
other one that we haven't covered but I guess qualifies

1110
00:57:08.679 --> 00:57:11.079
as a true crime book is Under the Banner of

1111
00:57:11.119 --> 00:57:15.440
Heaven by John Krakauer. One of my favorite books for.

1112
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:20.719
Me small Sacrifices by and Rule about Diane Downs. That's

1113
00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:22.320
just off the top of my head. I haven't done

1114
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:25.159
a good job keeping track of my good Reads account,

1115
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:29.400
but Small Sacrifices was really really well done, and I

1116
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:32.519
hope to read more of Ann Rules in the next year.

1117
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:34.880
Obviously a great true crime writer.

1118
00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:39.519
One more question for you, what games do we like playing?

1119
00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:42.559
Well, lately, we've been on a Rummy Cube kick.

1120
00:57:43.159 --> 00:57:44.760
I mean lately means like the last year.

1121
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:48.239
Yeah, since we went on vacation last summer. We started

1122
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:48.920
playing it as a fan.

1123
00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:50.639
Sometimes we just play it on our phones and we

1124
00:57:50.679 --> 00:57:53.440
all just sit in the living room and yeah, that's

1125
00:57:53.719 --> 00:57:57.079
a simple game. We're not like, we're not dumb, but

1126
00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:59.400
we're not good at like learning new games. One game

1127
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:03.840
that we really is called Masterpiece. It's from like nineteen seventy.

1128
00:58:04.039 --> 00:58:06.559
I bought it at a rummage sale and we love

1129
00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:09.440
the game. It's so fun. I would definitely get it

1130
00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:11.119
on eBay. I looked on Amazon the other day and

1131
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:14.159
it's not there. But it's like everyone is an art dealer,

1132
00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:16.320
and it's kind of like Monopoly, where you have a

1133
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:18.760
bunch of money and you are buying these art pieces.

1134
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:21.719
I don't know how many there are. There maybe thirty

1135
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:24.280
in the game thirty And it's cool because it's like,

1136
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:27.679
you know, paintings by you know, Picasso or Lenois and

1137
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:30.280
their actual paintings. So if you have, you know, especially

1138
00:58:30.280 --> 00:58:32.400
a younger kid, you can you know, learn a little

1139
00:58:32.400 --> 00:58:35.920
bit about the paintings and then you assign every game.

1140
00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:39.480
You know, it's randomly assigned the money values, and two

1141
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:42.760
of the paintings are forgeries, and so everyone's trying to

1142
00:58:42.760 --> 00:58:47.480
build the biggest art collection that you can. So, yeah,

1143
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:50.760
we really enjoy it. There's a little bit of strategy. Yeah.

1144
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:52.679
Another one I was going to mention is Code Names.

1145
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:54.840
We've played that quite a bit over the last couple

1146
00:58:54.880 --> 00:58:57.280
of years, and that's really fun for four of us

1147
00:58:57.280 --> 00:58:59.639
to play together. And it's really hard though, I feel

1148
00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:02.119
like I'm really bad at it, but it's a lot

1149
00:59:02.159 --> 00:59:02.519
of fun.

1150
00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:06.039
Yeah, and Raco I think we got last year for Christmas.

1151
00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:08.960
It's the simplest game, but again, it's just very entertaining

1152
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:11.199
to be able to play like a little game and

1153
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:13.079
have discussion.

1154
00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:15.360
Yeah. I'm looking forward to playing some of those games

1155
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:16.639
over our holiday break.

1156
00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:19.239
Maybe Santa will bring us a couple of new games.

1157
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:23.280
Ooh, it's exciting. Well, if anyone has any movie, book,

1158
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:26.840
game recommendations, send them over to us. We'd love to

1159
00:59:26.960 --> 00:59:29.800
learn what your favorites are and try them out.

1160
00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:33.000
One more episode for twenty twenty four, and then we're

1161
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:35.079
moving on to twenty twenty five. So next time, I

1162
00:59:35.079 --> 00:59:38.199
guess we'll probably talk about our plans for twenty twenty

1163
00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:42.639
five and New Year's resolutions. And Rich said to send

1164
00:59:42.639 --> 00:59:46.239
any recommendations our way for books and movies and stuff,

1165
00:59:46.239 --> 00:59:49.480
but some case recommendations that you'd like to hear in

1166
00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:52.119
twenty twenty five, send those to us as well.

1167
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:54.800
Yeah, always looking for interesting cases. Well, thank you all

1168
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:57.239
so much for listening. We really appreciate you, and we

1169
00:59:57.320 --> 01:00:00.599
hope that you have a great holiday season. Wherever you are.

1170
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:03.639
We'd love to hear from you. Follow us on social media,

1171
01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:07.760
send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1172
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:11.679
Consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. We

1173
01:00:11.760 --> 01:00:14.440
have one tier five dollars a month for early ad

1174
01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:18.360
free access and a monthly bonus episode until next time.

1175
01:00:18.800 --> 01:01:39.719
Don't kill your husband and don't kill your wife.

1176
01:01:05.480 --> 01:01:08.360
Long term?

1177
01:01:09.039 --> 01:01:09.679
What that was?

1178
01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:16.559
Shut up? I'm not perfect like you long term, all right,

1179
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:24.119
I got it. Long term, long term, say it. Long term,

1180
01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:26.239
long term, I can't say it.