Aug. 19, 2024

Linda and Tom Kolman

Linda and Tom Kolman
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Linda and Tom Kolman, married 10 years, were going through a rough patch when Gilberto Nunez, a local dentist, entered their lives. Gil quickly became a close friend to both, weaving himself into their daily lives. In November 2011, Tom was found dead in his car outside of his gym, initially it was believed he suffered a heart attack. However, as the investigation unfolded, a shocking, sordid relationship was exposed.

Today's snacks: The Whole Shabang potato chips

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WEBVTT

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Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one

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thing we've learned and over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary, Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, How

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are you? I'm pretty good? How are you?

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You know?

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I'm okay. It's a little touch and go here today.

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Yeah, why is it touch and go?

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Well?

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We had our flu slash COVID vaccine yesterday and my

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arm is so sorry I can barely lift it. Yeahs

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your arm feeling? How are you feeling?

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You know?

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Not too bad, little sore, a little rough when I

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woke up.

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But I took some motron and I'm pretty okay. So

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this is your reminder friends to get your vaccines.

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Yes, get it done.

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Speaking of being married for over twenty years, do you

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know what's coming up?

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Let me see August? What happens in August? Can't I

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can't think of it. It's our anniversary.

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I know, of course, you've been shopping for months, right.

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I need to get just the right piece of jewelry

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for my wife on this momentum exactly.

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I start shopping the day after your birthday in January

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that I start thinking about our anniversary.

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Yeah, I've been thinking about it for a while too,

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But I don't really exchange gifts normally, but hey, you

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never know your.

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Hey, undying love is enough of a gift for me.

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Oh okay, i'll'll work on that. Our friend Kylie from

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Primetime Crime. We talk about Kylie a lot. I adore her.

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She's fabulous. She is a dedicated podcaster and I fear

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as advocate. She does a marvelous job. She's also a patron.

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She subscribes to our Patreon, which is so generous when

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other podcasters, you know, take the time and the expense

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of doing that for us. Kylie sent us a snack,

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No way he did. She's the best man. And it's

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like a really interesting snack. I'm gonna show it to you.

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It's she brought us these sent us these chips. Have

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you seen them in the coveroar?

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No.

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So I have this cupboard listeners that I tend to

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put snacks in, and I shouldn't. I need to find

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a new cupboard because family is always discovering my snacks

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and really they're supposed to be for the podcast. But

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you broke into a really yummy snack.

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I mean, if you're putting yellow yummy snacks in the

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cupboard where they're available.

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And I oftentimes I'm naughty and you open the package

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and then everyone else is like it.

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But I have not seen these.

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Yeah, these were in the cupboard, but you didn't notice them.

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But they are sealed. Still I haven't tried them. So

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we have the original chips and then we have the

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extreme chips Extreme Yeah. And these chips come from the

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prison Commissary system.

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Oh wow.

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Yeah, so these you get these if you're a prisoner

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and the people were being released from prison and they

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missed the chips so bad they would like they were

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asking the company to release them so they could buy them.

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Wow. So you can buy them now in regular by them.

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But it's really interesting. Their website has almost no information

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about the product. I and Kylie told me that, you know,

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they're called prison chips, and I just think it's really

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interesting that they have, you know, such a following. But

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they actually I'm not going to tell you what they

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taste like. Whe is like the regular chip, but they're

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seasoned chips. And the other one it says it's extreme.

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Heat okay, called the whole shebang? All right?

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Oh oh, I forgot. I also brought my favorite all

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time snack really is chips and dip. So I also

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brought a container of French onion dip because I really,

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really truly love French onion dip. So, okay, we'll be

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right back after we try the snack. What did you

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think of the whole shebang?

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Well, I think it's another incentive for me to stay

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out of prison, because I don't love them too. They've

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got that like salt and vinegar type. Yeah, they're not

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a fan of salt and vinegar chips.

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There are salt and vinegar and barbecue at the same time. Okay,

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So I wasn't trip you would like them or not

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because you are kind of adverse to sour flavors.

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Yeah.

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I think they're really good.

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They're very potent. I mean, they've got real, real, a.

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Lot of flavor there, and sometimes if a chip is

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a lot of flavor, you don't want as many of

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them because they're more satisfying.

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Yeah, and I will save the French onion dip. It

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helped for me because that kind of made the flavor

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a little more, uh, a little more mellow.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, hell of a hell of a good dip French

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onion dip. It's good stuff.

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Yeah.

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Well, thank you so much, Kelly. That was the super fun.

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Yeah, that was really cool.

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I believe the chips are available on Amazon dot com,

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or you can go to the Whole Shebang website and

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order them there. Today, I'm going to tell you the

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story of Linda and Tom Coleman. This case was recommended

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by our listener friend Chelsea. Chelsea sends us several case

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recommendations a week. We can't get to all of them,

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but this one is pretty interesting. I think you're going

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to enjoy it.

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I'm looking forward to it.

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And November twenty eighth, twenty eleven, the Monday after Thanksgiving,

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Tom Coleman stayed up late to watch his beloved New

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York Giants play on Monday Night Football. Unfortunately, the Giants

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lost to the New Orleans Saints forty nine to twenty four,

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although the Giants did go on that year to win

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the Super Bowl against Tom Brady and the New England

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Patriots twenty one to seventeen.

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You know how I love it when you talk about football.

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Right, I went the extra mile and I had to

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do research on that football season. Despite staying up late

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to watch the game, Tom got up early the next morning,

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at about four am to go to the gym in Kingston,

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New York, about fifteen minutes from his home that he

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shared with his wife, Linda, their son, and his stepdaughter

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in Sagerates, New York. Four am super early, so we're

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in the same time zone. If you stayed up to

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watch Monday night football, it would get over eleven thirty

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at the earliest each.

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Closer to midnight's wow. So yeah, he's dedicated to his

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workouts or something.

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Most mornings, Tom went to the gym before heading to

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his job as a physical therapist. Linda remembers Tom kissing

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her goodbye tenderly that morning, one final kiss. Several hours later,

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around lunchtime, Linda received a call from her and Tom's friend,

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Gilberto Nunez or Gil. He asked if she knew where

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Tom was. Linda told him Tom was at work, but

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gil said he'd tried to reach Tom at work and

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a coworker told him that Tom hadn't made it in

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that day. Linda was shocked and confused. Tom never missed work.

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She realized that Tom hadn't answered her text messages that

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morning either, and she started to worry. Linda decided to

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try and retrace his footsteps. She drove to the Planet

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Fitness where Tom worked out at. She was relieved when

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she saw Tom's car in the parking lot. She pulled

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up alongside his car and found him reclined in the seat.

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The seat was so far back Tom was almost lying flat.

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It appeared that Tom was sleeping, but when she opened

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the door and tried to wake him up, yelling his name,

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shaking him, eventually even slapping him and trying to pry

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his eyes open, Linda realized that her husband of ten

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years wasn't breathing. She called nine one.

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One, Oh, no, I'm in the park.

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I was looking.

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Are you able to check the paper of Chester going

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up and down?

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And I don't think it is Paramedics arrived on the

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scene three minutes later and declared Tom dad. His zipper

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was down and his belt buckle was undone, as were

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the first several buttons of his shirt. Linda was crying hysterically.

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Gil Nunaz rushed to the scene to comfort her, but

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he was overcome with emotion. He began jumping up and

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down sobbing, and he fell to his knees in shock

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and grief. Paramedics quickly assessed that Tom had suffered from

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a cardiac event, but detectives came to the scene to investigate.

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Tom aged forty four, was slightly overweight, He had hypertension

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and severe sleep apnea, but was otherwise healthy. What could

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have caused this young man to die so suddenly and

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why was he at the gym at four thirty in

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the morning. Could there be fall play or did Tom

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die from natural causes. Tom Coleman was a soft spoken

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family man, a dedicated husband, loving father, and Little League coach.

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His family was his first priority. He was a kind man,

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and those who knew him spoke about him glowingly. Tom

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was born on March twenty second, nineteen sixty seven in Queen's,

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New York, and grew up on Long Island with three siblings.

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He graduated from sunny Stony Brook and later earned his

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doctor writ in physical therapy from Damon College in Amherst,

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New York. He was a huge New York Giants fan.

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Linda took him to his first live game, a memory

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they both cherished, and Tom quickly fell in love. After

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meeting on an online dating app, y eloped to Las

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Vegas and October two thousand and one. The only people

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in attendance at the wedding were Linda and Tom's parents.

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It was the second marriage for both. Linda had a

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daughter from her first marriage, and Tom had two children,

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a son Brad and a daughter, Jillian. He and his

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first wife, Michelle, divorced after twelve years of marriage. Tom's

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children lived in Colorado with Michelle. Despite the distance, he

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remained active in his children's life. Tom and Michelle were

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amicable and co parented well together, always putting their children first.

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Tom was in constant contact with them and saw them

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as much as possible. After Linda and Tom were married,

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they settled into a middle class neighborhood in Sagrates, New York,

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where Linda had grown up. Sagrates has a population of

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about twenty thousand. It's a picturesque village located in the

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Hudson Valley at the foot of the Catskill Mountains, about

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two hours north of New York City. Soon after their wedding,

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the Colemans welcomed a son named Ryan to complete their family.

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Tom was overcome with emotion when Ryan was born he

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openly wept with joy. Despite Jillian and Brad living states away.

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Jillian described them to Dateline as a happy, close knit family,

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but as the years went by, Linda and Tom's marriage

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became strained. Linda and Tom both had good jobs, but

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they were never able to get ahead financially. Tom's divorce

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left him cash strapped due to alimony, travel expenses to

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see his children, and child support. Additionally, Linda's daughter had

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chronic health problems and their young son, Ryan had difficulties

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in school, which further strained the Coleman marriage.

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After Tom's sudden death, both Linda and Michelle were left

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with the heartbreaking task of telling their children that Tom

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was gone. The four children were heartbroken and attended the

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funeral united holding hands. A detective stealthily attended Tom's funeral,

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hoping to gain some new perspective on Tom. Tom's cause

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of death was ruled undetermined pending the toxicology report. There

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was no evidence of a heart attack, aneurysm, or condition

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that would cause a sudden death, or at least not

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one that the medical examiner found. Smothering could not be

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ruled out. Tom was a big man and not in

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the best overall health at two hundred and thirty pounds.

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He was overweight with an enlarged heart and liver. He

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suffered from anxiety, depression, high blood pressure, and an extreme

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case of sleep apnea. He took medication for his blood

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pressure and an antidepressant. Despite these conditions, none of them

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seemed severe enough to cause his sudden death. In the

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hours after Tom's death, Linda was brought to the police

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station for questioning. She was the prime suspect. One of

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the first steps in the investigation was to review surveillance

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footage from the Planet Fitness gym that Tom attended in Kingston,

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about fifteen minutes from his house, in a strip mall

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next to a coal's department store. They found some curious

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activity in the parking lot. At four thirty seven am

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on the morning of November twenty eight, a few minutes

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after Tom had arrived, a white suv pulled into the

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parking lot and parked next to Tom. Both vehicles parked

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in the rear of the parking lot, far from the

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door to the gym. It appeared Tom must have known

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whoever was in the white suv. The two vehicles, parked

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side by side sat together for about thirty minutes shortly

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00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.639
after five am, the white suv left the parking lot,

240
00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:31.960
but Tom's car remained. He never exited his car.

241
00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:34.639
I should point out that this was in twenty eleven,

242
00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:39.320
so the footage was very grainy and you couldn't really

243
00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.519
discern if anyone got out of their car and got

244
00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:42.879
into the other vehicle or not.

245
00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:44.679
Plus if the cars were all the way at the

246
00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:46.840
back of the parking lot too, I'm guessing it was.

247
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:49.320
The camera was a fair distance away from the.

248
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.559
Cars as well, right, and it was still dark, so

249
00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:55.039
hard to really see a whole lot from that video.

250
00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:59.120
Yeah. Do Planet Fitnesses even open that early at like for.

251
00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:00.080
Twenty four hours?

252
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:00.639
Oh? Really?

253
00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:01.120
Yeah?

254
00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:01.480
Cool?

255
00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.720
A couple of things stand out to me here. First

256
00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.120
of all, it was four thirty am, and if he

257
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.159
was going to work out like he did most morning,

258
00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:12.039
I don't believe he went that early. But he parked

259
00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:14.320
as far away from the front door as he could.

260
00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:16.639
And if you would go to the gym that early,

261
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:18.320
you would park as close to the front.

262
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:19.960
Door as you could, want to get the extra steps

263
00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.320
in you're going to work out, right, I.

264
00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:24.080
Don't know it. It makes me ner I mean, I

265
00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.639
don't know. I'm a woman, so it's different. But it's

266
00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:28.840
just I think it's great that gyms are open twenty

267
00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:30.559
four hours, but I would be really scared to be

268
00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:32.279
that early.

269
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.000
The police brought in Tom's friend Gil. He was relaxed

270
00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:40.320
and forthcoming. He told investigators that Linda was having a

271
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:42.919
hard time and that he had been spending time with her,

272
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.799
helping her through the grieving process. The police were curious

273
00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.360
about Gil's relationship with Linda. Here's a clip of Gil's

274
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:51.519
interview with the police.

275
00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:55.679
What was your relationship with Linda between July two, thy

276
00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:56.519
eleven and a.

277
00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:01.559
Day times rules? Great, excellent, We had a great relationship, mkay.

278
00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.240
And you know what if I show you, I mean

279
00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:08.720
they they love cards that she gave me.

280
00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.440
I've got distributing the fact. No, no, no, you know do

281
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:12.039
you know what I'm saying.

282
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.759
But but that can tell the relationship of how somebody's

283
00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:17.720
still you know, towards somebody or anything like that. So

284
00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.200
a relationship, there was nothing wrong with her, it was

285
00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.360
it was our relationship got better.

286
00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:24.159
At that point between here and here.

287
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:24.720
Yeah.

288
00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:26.200
Well, the reason being.

289
00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:29.320
That now Plumbe knew, so now all he wanted to

290
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:31.200
know is like, okay, good guys are going out. I

291
00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.679
wanna know, so that way, you know, I don't wanna

292
00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.879
hear you know, somebody show you or the different that

293
00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:41.279
to the point of that for example, meaning that we went.

294
00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:44.519
To New York City m uh or like three different times.

295
00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:46.679
Okay, two or three different times.

296
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.080
That thing was two of uh two or three whatever.

297
00:14:49.159 --> 00:14:52.279
But one of the times we went to see Jersey

298
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.240
Boys and he knew about it, you know, everything and

299
00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:58.679
all that you know, and he stayed with the boy

300
00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.679
at home and he daughter was working, was on the

301
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:03.080
side of it, and we went down to the see

302
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.360
the spending things and see so we there are we

303
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:06.919
here and here.

304
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.399
The relationship between me and Wind now was great, okay

305
00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:14.200
because now he knew, So it was better the relationship because.

306
00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:14.960
Now he knew about it.

307
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.440
So why any relationship between me and him was.

308
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.639
Also good because we used to talk about all other things.

309
00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:22.919
I remember first two thousand eleven and I've ever twenty

310
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:24.919
after two thousand eleven, what was your relationship?

311
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:27.879
I was with playing the game, So it was good.

312
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.840
We celebrated, you know, uh uh, you know on November

313
00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:34.480
you know, like every month, you know, like because we

314
00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:36.320
started the first time we pased.

315
00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:37.879
Was like we spend by sign and something like that.

316
00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:39.279
Yeah, so like every month to ten of.

317
00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.080
The morning, you know, like we likes changed the car on,

318
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.799
you know, and have something.

319
00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:44.679
To eat and we got together.

320
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.080
So so on November ten, we we went together.

321
00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:49.320
Yeah, you know, not that so you know we we

322
00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:50.720
were same thing.

323
00:15:51.159 --> 00:15:52.919
Same Thanksgiving together, right, Yeah?

324
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:54.159
Yeah, a brother's house.

325
00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:54.919
I have a brother's house.

326
00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.240
Yes, And who was at Burgh Yeah, ross the street.

327
00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:58.080
I have brother's house.

328
00:15:58.399 --> 00:15:59.440
It's right, I'm being song.

329
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:01.519
We sat there to each other and you know, we

330
00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:02.799
started food to me and we.

331
00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.919
Talk and we watched them they go gay together, all

332
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:06.399
this stuff.

333
00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.879
How would they make you feel somebody was ros reverse?

334
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:13.240
Well, that's why I wanted him to know, because he

335
00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:13.639
was me.

336
00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:14.480
I wanted to know.

337
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.440
All right, I'm guessing we're going to get more into Gil.

338
00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:20.720
But this sounds like he doesn't sound like he was

339
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:21.320
just a friend.

340
00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:24.120
He might be a little more than just a friend.

341
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.720
The detectives were shocked when he volunteered that he and

342
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:30.000
Linda had been having an affair. I was a little

343
00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.159
shocked as well. He said the affair had been going

344
00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:36.200
on for about a year since December twenty ten, and

345
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.840
that Tom was aware of it and was okay with it.

346
00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:42.080
Gil said they remained friends and still hung out and

347
00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:46.480
watched football together. Linda was brought back in for additional

348
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.159
questioning and she admitted that she had been having a

349
00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:52.240
long term affair with Gil, but she loved Tom and

350
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:56.039
he was her best friend. Tom and Gil texted sixty

351
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:58.639
two times on the day before he died, but Gil

352
00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:02.240
deleted the texts. Tom's phone was found next to his

353
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.480
body and the messages were also deleted from his phone.

354
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.000
Gil claimed they had just been texting about the Giants game.

355
00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:14.440
Gil denied deleting the texts. He accused the police of

356
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.640
deleting the texts to make him look guilty. Forensic data

357
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:21.559
experts were able to recover a portion of the texts,

358
00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:25.079
maybe twenty of them, and they were in fact about football.

359
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:28.720
There were no text messages suggesting that to meet Gil

360
00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.720
at the gym the next morning. But did Gil just

361
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.200
get lucky? We'll never know.

362
00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.079
So what do you think There's sixty two text messages

363
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.920
and only twenty of them are able to be retrieved.

364
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:42.640
He just got lucky, or I mean, it sort of

365
00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:45.400
seems that way because why. First, I don't think the

366
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.960
police would delete these texts to frame him. That doesn't

367
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.880
make any sense. So why would he delete these texts

368
00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:53.599
if they were truly just about football.

369
00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:56.160
You do have to wonder, though, like what are the

370
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.480
odds of you know, you get a third of the

371
00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:00.720
texts back that none of them had had anything to

372
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.039
do with this potential meeting next morning?

373
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:05.920
That is true, And I wonder why they couldn't get

374
00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:06.720
all of them back either.

375
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:10.359
I guess well, it was twenty eleven. I was wondering this,

376
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.960
and I was going to ask you to reach out

377
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:17.039
to our friend Patrick. If certain phones, like maybe an

378
00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:20.920
Android is easier to delete things permanently than an iPhone,

379
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.960
or if there's any or if you know, fifteen years ago,

380
00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:26.400
was it easier to delete messages and they just went

381
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:27.039
away forever?

382
00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:28.200
Yeah? Good question.

383
00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:32.279
Gilbert to Nunez was a local dentist with a thriving

384
00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.079
practice in Kingston, New York. Kingston is a suburban city

385
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.440
about ninety miles north of New York City. Gil is

386
00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.559
a native of the Dominican Republic. He has five sons

387
00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.559
with at least two different ex wives. Gil's office manager

388
00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.279
said he was always kind generous and a pleasure to

389
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.640
work for. Mary Ellen McManus worked for doctor Nunez for

390
00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:57.039
thirteen years as a dental hygienist. She said that he

391
00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.640
was one of the best dentists that I've ever worked for.

392
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.960
Never heard him raise his voice, be angry, or fly

393
00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.960
off the handle, and his dental practice was very successful.

394
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.200
Doctor Nuna's was benevolent with his patients and time. He

395
00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:14.519
provided free dental care for a woman's shelter and the

396
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.200
Boys and Girls Club. He sometimes picked up elderly patients

397
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:21.079
for their appointments at his office and then delivered them

398
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.640
safely home. He was also a volunteer firefighter. So you're

399
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:29.799
going to have some opinions about gil but he did

400
00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:31.200
do some very nice things.

401
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.400
My dentist never comes and picks me up at home.

402
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.920
I don't think you'd want to. Linda and Tom met

403
00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:41.119
doctor Gilberto Nunez and his wife at their son's kindergarten

404
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:44.880
orientation in twenty ten. Gil helped Linda and Tom out

405
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:47.440
with their bills when money was tight. He'd given them

406
00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.640
at least twelve thousand dollars, and when he and Linda

407
00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:53.920
were together, he bought her expensive clothes and jewelry and

408
00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.200
paid her credit card bill. Gil even encouraged Tom to

409
00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.680
go back to college, and he said he'd pay his tuition.

410
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.480
Tom was busy between his job and family and didn't

411
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:06.319
have much time for friends until he met Gil. They

412
00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:09.599
became fast friends and they considered each other their best friend.

413
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:12.599
They went on double dates with their wives, but soon

414
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:16.000
after Gil and his wife separated, Gil's son and Linda

415
00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.240
and tom son Ryan, began taking karate lessons together. Linda

416
00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:22.799
and Gil usually brought their sons to class and stayed

417
00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.720
to observe, which gave them several hours each week to

418
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:29.160
talk while the boys took class. Gil confided in Linda

419
00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:33.000
about his heartbreak over his divorce, and their relationship began

420
00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:36.240
slowly building. At first, Gil would give Linda a hug

421
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:39.240
as they parted, but the hug transitioned to a kiss

422
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.200
on the cheek and then eventually a kiss on the lips.

423
00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:45.079
And then one night, Gil called Linda and told her

424
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.640
he had feelings for her. He told her that he

425
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.400
had fallen in love with her. Linda went to Gill's

426
00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:53.039
office to have some dental work done, and well, you

427
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:56.200
can imagine what happened, I can She began going to

428
00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.279
his office during the lunch hour, or sometimes they'd rent

429
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:02.920
a hotel room. Gil wanted Linda to leave Tom, but

430
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:06.599
she refused to break up her family. In February twenty eleven,

431
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:09.799
Linda met Gill at a hotel. When she arrived, Gil

432
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.599
handed her a briefcase and told her to open it.

433
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.160
It was filled with one hundred thousand dollars in cash.

434
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:17.960
He told her if she left her husband, she could

435
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.640
keep it. She angrily left the hotel room, but she

436
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:25.519
forgave him and their affair continued. Gil later said that

437
00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:28.039
he was testing her to see if she was just

438
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:29.160
with him for his money.

439
00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:31.000
Wow, that's pretty bizarre.

440
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:35.519
Linda and Gil were very romantic and celebrated their anniversary monthly.

441
00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:38.880
Linda frequently gave cards to Gil and referred to him

442
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:43.119
as her little devil or stud muffin. On their eleven

443
00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:46.000
month anniversary, Linda wrote, I love you and I will

444
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:48.759
always love you. I had no idea eleven months ago

445
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.039
that my life was about to change in the way

446
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.680
that it has. But look at us today, so much

447
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:58.000
love and passion and compassion for each other. A few

448
00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:01.119
months into their affair, Linda received Techi messages from someone

449
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.480
named Samantha. She claimed that she and Tom were having

450
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:08.720
an affair. Linda didn't confront Tom about Samantha. Instead, she

451
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:12.519
confided in Gil about the text messages. Gil told Linda

452
00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:14.839
that he had a friend in this CIA who could

453
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:17.839
help investigate the matter, because that's what the CIA was

454
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.359
there for.

455
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:19.000
Of course.

456
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:21.759
A week later, Gil gave Linda a two page letter

457
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:28.279
from the CIA. Here's an excerpt from the letter. Sometimes

458
00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.759
we as human beings, believe that we know a person's

459
00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.839
character and behavior very well just because we have cohabitated

460
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:37.480
with that person for many years. But we all can

461
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:41.119
make mistakes in life, and as research has proven, people

462
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.559
fall out of love all the time, and they stay

463
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:48.000
in a relationship for numerous reasons except for love. Sincerely,

464
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.079
Agent seven five three two four six nine one O

465
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.720
two what three telephone number seven five Never.

466
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:59.319
It sounds exactly like what you would expect from a

467
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:01.599
CIA investigative report.

468
00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:05.480
Yeah, and that's what they do. The CIA agent also

469
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.640
told Linda that she should forgive her husband. Linda there

470
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.759
said the letter sounded like it was written by a

471
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:15.240
two year old, but she believed that at the time. Really,

472
00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.440
Tom told Linda that he wasn't having an affair, and

473
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.440
he had no idea who this Samantha woman was. Months later,

474
00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:26.400
in July, Samantha texted Tom and told him that his

475
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:30.160
wife was having an affair with her dentist. Samantha didn't

476
00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:32.839
just send one or two texts. She sent over one

477
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:38.079
thousand texts over two days, with pictures. Tom wasn't able

478
00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.799
to stop thinking about the text messages, and he decided

479
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.559
to hire a private investigator. He told Gil about his plan,

480
00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:47.079
but Gil once again offered the help of his friend

481
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:50.319
in this CIA. He told Tom his friend was a

482
00:23:50.319 --> 00:23:53.799
computer expert who could help him find the origins of

483
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:54.720
the text mess.

484
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.400
It sounds like he's not only a computer expert, but

485
00:23:56.440 --> 00:23:58.440
he's a relationship expert as well.

486
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.640
Well, maybe it was more than one frame. Gil paid

487
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.000
the information technology technician who maintained the servers at his

488
00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:10.519
office five hundred dollars. Suppose as a CIA agent, Gil

489
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.359
had purchased a fake CIA badge online, But before the

490
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.319
meeting could take place, he admitted to Tom that he

491
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:21.240
had sent the text messages to him. He was Samantha

492
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.880
and he was having an affair with Linda. Gil told

493
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.799
forty eight hours that He created Samantha because he felt

494
00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:31.359
guilty and wanted to tell Tom about his affair with Linda,

495
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:34.359
but didn't know how to tell him. Gil said he

496
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:36.759
went to Tom and got on his hands and knees

497
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:41.160
and begged him for his forgiveness, and Tom forgave him.

498
00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.960
Believe it or not. Tom confronted Linda and she admitted

499
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:47.000
that she was having an affair with Gil, but she

500
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:49.960
wasn't ready to end their marriage. She has Tom for

501
00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:54.319
time to figure things out. Months later, when Linda learned

502
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:56.599
that Gil had sent Tom the text messages, she was

503
00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.799
infuriated and confronted him. Gil denied sending the text messages

504
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.319
and accused Tom of sending the messages to himself. So

505
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:06.559
this love triangle is just it's just a mess.

506
00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:11.160
It's a mess, and Gil seems very stipulative. Yeah.

507
00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:14.400
After the confrontation, Gil called both Tom and Linda and

508
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.240
left the messages, saying he loved them and goodbye. Tom

509
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:20.480
called the police and they checked on Gil and found

510
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.920
him alive and well. He told police that he'd had

511
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.880
a moment of weakness and had no intention of taking

512
00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:30.720
his own life. Gil's deception didn't end with the Samantha character.

513
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:34.599
Linda received an email from Gil's mother begging her not

514
00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:37.920
to end the affair with him. The email claimed it

515
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.000
was quote God's plan for Linda and Gil to be together,

516
00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.920
she wrote, referring to Linda and Tom, quote you both

517
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:47.880
will have a miserable life and will end up breaking

518
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:52.039
up anyway. But the email you're going to be shocked,

519
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.559
I know actually sent from an email account created by Gil.

520
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:56.200
I can't believe.

521
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:59.720
It's hard to believe, but Gil and Tom continue to

522
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:02.880
be friends. In fact, they grew closer than ever and

523
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.480
even spent more time together. Tom told Linda that Gil

524
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:10.279
was the best friend he'd ever had. Investigators checked their

525
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.000
phone records and confirmed that the men did in fact

526
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:16.720
continue to talk and text after the affair was revealed.

527
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:21.480
They texted dozens of times a day. In one text exchange,

528
00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:26.319
Tom texted Gil, quote, your girlfriend is baking. He responded great,

529
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.759
I love her so much, and Tom and Gil frequently

530
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:34.079
signed off on their text with I love yous. Gil

531
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:36.160
continued to go over to the Coleman's house to watch

532
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:39.079
football games and have dinners. Some nights they all went

533
00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:41.839
out together, and other nights just Linda and Gil went

534
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.359
out and Tom stayed with the kids. Gil even set

535
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.319
Tom up on a few dates. Linda said she was

536
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:50.720
torn between the two men. She loved them both and

537
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:54.000
needed time and space to make the decision. Tom tried

538
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.519
to give her what she needed, but Gil pressured her

539
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:59.359
to make a decision. He bought her an engagement ring

540
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.359
in September and proposed, and she turned him down.

541
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.000
This whole relationship is just so bizarre to me. It

542
00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:09.519
almost sounds like there is like a throutle thing going

543
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:09.880
on here.

544
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:12.880
It really does. And I don't have no idea.

545
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:15.839
Yeah, it's strange. It's very strange.

546
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:19.440
It's very strange. Tom's ex wife, Michelle Coleman Weber told

547
00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:22.440
Forty eight Hours quote, the man that I knew probably

548
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:25.160
would have done anything to keep his family together, and

549
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:27.720
I could understand where he was thinking it would work

550
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.920
out in the end. End quote. After Tom's death, his

551
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.400
parents were shocked he would be okay with the affair

552
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.319
between Linda and Gil. After a family get away in

553
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.880
November twenty eleven to celebrate their anniversary, Linda made a decision.

554
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:44.519
And I think it was really that weekend that I

555
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.000
realized that I just want I just want to be

556
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:47.759
with my husband.

557
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:49.359
He's my best friend.

558
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:51.839
I love him. I don't want to do this anymore.

559
00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:58.160
I've been stupid and foolish and ridiculous, and it's I

560
00:27:58.200 --> 00:27:59.240
don't want to do it anymore.

561
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:04.160
That was Linda talking to Dateline. Linda continued to send

562
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.960
text messages to Gil while on the family trip. She

563
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:08.880
sent him a message that said she loved him and

564
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:11.640
missed him. Quote, I love you, I miss holding your

565
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.960
hand and that soft spot and scar on your face.

566
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:23.119
Woma wah sorry. Gill's response was measured, Mia Moore, don't

567
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:25.839
do anything please. You said to me that you don't

568
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:28.960
want to make any decisions until after the holidays. I

569
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:32.359
am going by what you said you want. On November

570
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:36.119
twenty first, Skill texted Linda, quote your kisses today, I

571
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:41.079
can still feel them. OMG, Linda, it seemed was kind

572
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:44.000
of playing both men. She told Dateline that she was

573
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.039
afraid Gil would take his own life if she broke

574
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:49.359
up with him. He once emailed her, quote, if I

575
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:52.440
lose you, I will lose everything I believe to be true,

576
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:54.480
even though I will never take my own life, because

577
00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:57.000
I promised you my life will be as if I

578
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:01.279
am dead, Linda told dateline quote, I was stringing him along.

579
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:03.519
We were playing this game so he wouldn't kill himself

580
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.400
over the holidays. It was a dirty, stupid game end quote.

581
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:10.960
Emails between Linda and Tom show that she was planning

582
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:14.000
on focusing on her marriage and breaking things off with Gil.

583
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:17.279
On Monday, November twenty eighth, Linda and Tom talked about

584
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:19.640
Linda breaking up with Gil over dinner that night, or

585
00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.640
at least explaining to him that she was struggling to

586
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.240
make the decision. Linda wrote to Tom, quote, I told

587
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:28.160
him we have to talk, so he has been begging

588
00:29:28.240 --> 00:29:31.000
and pleading for me not to leave him. She and

589
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:33.519
Tom feared that Gil would harm himself after the breakup,

590
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:36.480
and they decided to wait after the holidays.

591
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:37.720
Some kind of.

592
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.160
Confused what happened during this time, because I think Gil

593
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:43.799
saw the writing on the wall. He knew that Linda

594
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:47.400
was kind of getting tired of having the affair and

595
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.279
wanted to break things off, but she was also still

596
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.519
having relations with him, And it's just kind of I'm

597
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.079
kind of confused as to what she actually was telling

598
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.160
Gil compared to what she was telling her husband. Like

599
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:04.319
if she was telling her husband one thing and Gil another.

600
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:08.799
That's kind of what it seems like. Then, you know

601
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.279
Tom was dead, so maybe she did try to break

602
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:13.880
up with them. So we don't really know what happened there.

603
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.000
But Gil did spend Thanksgiving with the Colemans and their

604
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.440
extended family, and he and Tom even talked about opening

605
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:22.319
a business together. They were going to open an ice

606
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:26.920
cream parlor together. Both Linda and Gil confirmed to police

607
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:30.279
that the romance had ended after Tom's death, but police

608
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.920
weren't so sure. Police shadowed Linda and Gil and kept

609
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.119
close tabs on them. They monitored their phones and even

610
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:41.000
put a GPS tracker on Gill's SUV, but they found

611
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:43.960
no proof that they were lying and still seeing each other.

612
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:49.319
But we do know that their affair was continuing at

613
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.759
least up until Town's death. Yes, I believe so interesting.

614
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:55.839
We'll be back after a break.

615
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:06.400
Two months after the autopsy, the toxicology report was ready.

616
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.160
It showed a drug called medazolam in Tom's system. The

617
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.279
autopsy called the amount of the drug very high, but

618
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:17.200
in a person with no other health conditions, it would

619
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:21.400
not be a lethal dose. The medical examiner determined Tom's

620
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:25.119
cause of death to be acute medazolamb poisoning, but it

621
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:28.079
really is unclear if that was the cause of his death.

622
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:31.599
Tom's sleep apnea could have played a role in his death.

623
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:37.559
Medazolam slows down breathing significantly slower respiration coupled with sleep

624
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:42.119
apnea could be a deadly combination. Medazolam, sold under the

625
00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:46.799
brand name Versid, is a benzodiazepine medication used for anesthesia,

626
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:52.880
premedication before surgical anesthesia, and procedural sedation, as well as

627
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:57.119
treating severe agitation. It is not a street drug and

628
00:31:57.319 --> 00:32:03.119
only available to licensed medical practitioners. It induces sleepiness, decreases anxiety,

629
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:07.359
and can cause anterograde amnesia in high doses, which means

630
00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.880
the inability to form new memories after the event. It's

631
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:17.000
commonly used in sedation, dentistry d dentistry. Interesting it has

632
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:20.359
a bitter taste, so investigators thought that if Tom had

633
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:23.400
been poisoned, someone may have put the poison in a beverage,

634
00:32:23.799 --> 00:32:29.160
specifically coffee, and Tom's stomach was empty except for coffee. Suddenly,

635
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:32.440
investigators realized that they may have a murder on their hands.

636
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:36.960
Suspicion quickly fell on Linda. She worked in a hospital

637
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:41.119
and had access to Madazzle Lamb. However, investigators went to

638
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:44.119
her office and all the Medazzle Lamb was accounted for,

639
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:48.480
although the Coleman home was never searched. After Linda passed

640
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:53.200
a polygraph test, she was eliminated from suspicion. The investigation

641
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.400
narrowed in on another suspect, Gil Nunez. They brought him

642
00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:00.079
in for questioning. He was at the police station for

643
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:04.160
seven hours. He denied any involvement, but had no alibi.

644
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:07.680
He never asked for an attorney during the long interrogation.

645
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:09.920
He was calm and forthcoming.

646
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:13.960
During the interview, We played a clip from that interview earlier,

647
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.480
and he was super calm and forthcoming. He was so

648
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:20.519
madter of fact about everything. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm having

649
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.519
an affair with Linda and blah blah blah.

650
00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.599
Yeah, very strange. He told the police that he and

651
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.839
Linda had been intimate a few weeks before Tom's death. Interestingly,

652
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:33.359
Gil also told the investigator that Tom suffered from severe

653
00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:36.640
sleep apnea, which they might not have known that otherwise.

654
00:33:37.799 --> 00:33:41.119
Investigators believed that Gil felt a breakup coming with Linda.

655
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.319
He sensed that Linda was planning to end their nearly

656
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:47.640
year long affair to save her marriage. Gil was so

657
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:50.240
obsessed with Linda that he couldn't stand the thought of

658
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:53.160
losing her, so he lured Tom to the gym Early

659
00:33:53.240 --> 00:33:56.559
on the morning of November twenty eighth, twenty eleven. Gil

660
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:59.359
got into Tom's car and handed him a coffee laced

661
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:03.880
with Madad's lamb. After Tom became drowsy, Gil reclined his seat.

662
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.559
The drug, coupled with Tom's sleep apnea, was enough to

663
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:12.320
slow his respiration and eventually stop his breathing altogether. However,

664
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:15.599
none of Gill's DNA was found in the car, while Linda,

665
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:19.760
Tom and their son Ryan's DNA was found, so.

666
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.079
It is kind of surprising that none of Gill's fingerprints

667
00:34:23.159 --> 00:34:27.400
or DNA or hair or anything was found in the car. First,

668
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:29.039
I thought, well, maybe he wiped down the car, but

669
00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:32.360
there are other fingerprints in the car. Yeah, but maybe

670
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.960
it was November so he could have been wearing gloves

671
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:38.159
right and a hat.

672
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:43.159
True. After the intense eight hour long interrogation, the next day,

673
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:46.800
Gil hired an attorney. The attorney contacted the police and

674
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:50.679
notified them that Gil would no longer be cooperating. While

675
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:53.159
Gil was at the police station, a search warrant was

676
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:56.559
carried out at his office. Two vials of medas LAMB

677
00:34:56.599 --> 00:34:59.719
were found in Gill's office. The vials were part of

678
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.119
an emergency kit in case a patient needed medical intervention

679
00:35:03.719 --> 00:35:06.840
that the office was required to keep on hand. However,

680
00:35:06.960 --> 00:35:09.639
the vials were sealed and there were no fingerprints on.

681
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:14.079
Them, and Gil claimed not to know what medazolam was

682
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:18.400
when he was interrogated by the police. Interesting, and I

683
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:21.360
mean it kind of is. So this is an emergency

684
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:23.360
kit that I think dentists are required to keep, Like

685
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:27.239
if you have a medical emergency while you're in the chair, right,

686
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:29.000
you know, they have this kit. They probably don't have

687
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:31.840
to pull it out hardly. Ever, Yeah, you know, so

688
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:33.719
it's possible he didn't know what was in the kit.

689
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:36.000
I suppose. So, I mean, it seemed like he would

690
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:38.760
still know as a dentist, what you know, what type

691
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:42.239
of medications were available to him. But I suppose it's possible.

692
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.039
And he said that he didn't practice aidation dentistry either.

693
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:48.440
Okay. The DA did not think that there was enough

694
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:52.840
information to charge Gil with Tom's death. Investigators hoped that

695
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:56.239
forensic testing of Tom's car might reveal some new evidence.

696
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:00.760
They found mail DNA not belonging to Tom on belt Buckle.

697
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:03.840
The DNA didn't belong to Gill or any of the

698
00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.880
first responders either. This is where the investigation gets tricky.

699
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:11.039
The da knew that they couldn't press charges with this

700
00:36:11.159 --> 00:36:13.960
new information, so they tried to find someone close to

701
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:18.440
Gil that may have been an accomplice. Investigators stealthily collected

702
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:21.719
items such as a cigarette butt or sodacan from people

703
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.159
close to Gil to check their DNA, but still they

704
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:29.360
found no match. As Tom's children, parents, and other family

705
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.039
members found out about the affair between Linda and Gil,

706
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:34.880
they cut ties with Linda.

707
00:36:35.239 --> 00:36:39.400
Investigators realized that some samples weren't saved from Tom's autopsy.

708
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:43.280
Contents from his stomach had been thrown out. Therefore, the

709
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:47.159
extent to which the medazolam had been metabolized could not

710
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:51.920
be determined, which would be helpful in establish establishing a timeline.

711
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:56.119
It's possible Tom had been self medicating to sleep better,

712
00:36:56.519 --> 00:37:00.880
and maybe Gil had given him the drug. Stiators received

713
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.760
a court order to exhume Tom's body. The pathologists used

714
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:08.320
a special light to search for needle pricks indicating an

715
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:12.440
injection site for the medazolamb. I don't believe they found

716
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:17.159
any injection sites after the first exhumation, but Tom's body

717
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:20.880
was exhumed a second time. Among the additional test was

718
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.280
an examination into Tom's jaw muscles to see if there

719
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:28.119
was a higher concentration of the drug there, the thought

720
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:31.400
being that if Gil had injected Tom, he would have

721
00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:34.159
done it in the facial muscles because he was familiar

722
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.360
with them as a dentist. The tests did find the

723
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:41.599
concentration of madazolamb higher in the facial muscles, but not

724
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:47.719
conclusively so. However, the exhumation and additional testing did pay off.

725
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:51.360
Tom's death was ruled to be a homicide due to poisoning,

726
00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:57.199
specifically medazelam poisoning, after the high concentrations of madazlamb were

727
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:01.599
found in Tom's stomach contents. The whole madazzle lamb issue

728
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:06.320
is tricky because the dose wasn't a deadly dose. Was

729
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:12.239
it was a therapeutic dose. But in Tom, they think

730
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:14.199
that it could have caused his death because it slowed

731
00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:17.239
his breathing coupled with the sleep apnea, but in someone

732
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:19.599
without sleep apnea it would not have caused a death.

733
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:21.760
Yeah, So if you were trying to kill someone with

734
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:25.599
madazzlam and you knew the dosage is, you would probably give.

735
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:26.840
Them, probably give them more.

736
00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:27.239
Yeah.

737
00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:30.400
Yeah, it's kind of a stretch, I think.

738
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:30.840
Yeah.

739
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.039
There still wasn't enough evidence to link Gil to Tom's death,

740
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:40.079
and there were no other suspects. Gil continued practicing dentistry

741
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:43.480
and Linda and her children can continue to grieve Tom.

742
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:47.840
In twenty fourteen, or three years after Tom's death, Oh Wow,

743
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:50.880
Gil began dating on match dot com. He fell in

744
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:54.119
love and got married in the Dominican Republic to a woman,

745
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:59.159
a real estate agent and singer named Jamil Sadly. In

746
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:03.079
March twenty thirteen, Tom's son from his first marriage, Bradley Edward,

747
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:06.280
just eighteen, wasn't able to heal after his father's death,

748
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:09.000
and he took his own life. Shortly after the first

749
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:13.039
anniversary of Tom's death. He told his family, Yeah, part

750
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:15.239
is so sad. He told his family he wanted to

751
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:18.960
wake up and be with his father. I know these

752
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.159
situations are so hard because it's hard enough to lose

753
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:26.440
one family member, but then when you lose a second

754
00:39:26.440 --> 00:39:29.760
family member, it's just so sad. He was so young,

755
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:33.639
the DA and the investigators were determined not to let

756
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:36.639
Tom's case go cold. They met with the state crime

757
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:40.760
Lab to review evidence and brainstorm. Someone suggested checking out

758
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.440
autopsies done the same day that Tom's autopsy was done,

759
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:49.039
suggesting that maybe the unidentified DNA from Tom's belt may

760
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.719
have come from a different autopsy performed on the same

761
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.880
day in the same table. And they were right. The

762
00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:59.960
lab hadn't been properly sterilized between autopsies, and the un

763
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:03.119
DNA had nothing to do with Tom's case.

764
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:05.360
Ah, that is so crazy that someone even thought to

765
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:08.000
try that. It just seems like a complete shot in

766
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:08.400
the dark.

767
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:11.639
And it just like like, you know, cleaning that lab

768
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.119
is right. She shows you how important it is, like

769
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:18.960
cross contamination really wow, mess things up With the unknown

770
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:22.519
DNA identified, the DA finally felt they had enough to

771
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:26.760
make a case. GILBERTU. Nunez was arrested for the second

772
00:40:26.800 --> 00:40:30.280
degree murder of Tom Coleman almost four years after his

773
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:34.360
death in October twenty fifteen. He spent one month in

774
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.199
jail before he was released after he posted one million

775
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.119
dollars in bail. His new wife stood by his side

776
00:40:40.159 --> 00:40:43.159
through all of his legal troubles believing he was innocent.

777
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:48.280
Gil's trial began in May twenty sixteen. Fifty witnesses were

778
00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:51.599
called over the three week trial. Gil was represented by

779
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.239
two prominent New York attorneys who had previously defended former

780
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.440
mob boss John Gottie. Each day after the trial ended,

781
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:02.159
Gil her reed to his office to see patients while

782
00:41:02.199 --> 00:41:06.360
he was still practicing. During the money Oh okay, yeah,

783
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:11.320
that makes sense, the Coleman family remained divided. Tom's family

784
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:14.400
members hadn't forgiven Linda for her affair with Gil and

785
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:17.719
didn't sit with her at the trial. Tom's parents were

786
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:20.519
infuriated to learn that the affair between Linda and Gil

787
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:24.599
had gone on for eleven months. Gil's wife and family,

788
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:28.159
and even some loyal patients attended his trial. The courtroom

789
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:28.760
was packed.

790
00:41:28.840 --> 00:41:31.280
Would you go to your deist murder? No?

791
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:32.079
I don't think I would.

792
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:35.599
His patients really really love him. I think he was

793
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:37.280
a very good dentist.

794
00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:42.079
During the trial, Gill's lies were exposed. Linda testified that

795
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.400
Gil had told her that he had worked for the CIA.

796
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:47.519
He had a badge to prove it. He claimed his

797
00:41:47.599 --> 00:41:51.400
work sometimes required him to put tracking devices in people's mouths,

798
00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:55.559
Investigators later found the fake ID mock up on Gill's

799
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.840
computer and a forged CIA letterhead. He was charged with

800
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:05.039
felony forgery charges. Investigators also found a search for madazzlam

801
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:08.199
on his computer. Ooh, that's pretty that's pretty damning.

802
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:12.320
Those pesky those searches, pesky Google searches.

803
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:15.559
It's every time. Gill's defense argued that there was only

804
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:18.199
one Wikipedia search about the drug, and it could have

805
00:42:18.280 --> 00:42:20.400
been performed by anyone at the office.

806
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:24.360
I don't want to be a Gill apologist, but if

807
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.480
you are going to research how much medaslam it takes

808
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:30.400
to kill someone, you're not probably going to go to Wikipedia.

809
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:34.519
True, But just the fact that you're searching for madazlam

810
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:38.000
and then this guy who you're close to dies of

811
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:43.639
madaslam poisoning shortly after that seems a little damning to me. Yeah,

812
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.320
Gil had gone as far as attempting to hire a

813
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:49.159
former police officer to harass Tom.

814
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:52.280
So Gil is supposed to be Tom's best friend, but

815
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:56.239
he really was very underhanded and did a lot of

816
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:58.159
just nasty things.

817
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:02.920
Well, yeah, for sure, charting with sleeping with his wife, right.

818
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:06.920
The judge didn't allow Gill's initial interview with the police

819
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.199
into the trial because he had never been read his

820
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:11.440
Miranda rights. Wow. Interesting.

821
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.320
So I'm still learning every time we do a case.

822
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.880
I am still learning as you are. And some things

823
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:20.639
that seem so straightforward. I think I didn't really understand

824
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:23.920
Miranda rights because I've seen too many TV shows where

825
00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:29.079
when you're arrested, you're read you're Miranda rights. But you know,

826
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:33.199
Miranda rights need to be read at the beginning of

827
00:43:33.239 --> 00:43:35.760
a police interrogation. And if they're not read at the

828
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:40.760
beginning of the police interrogation, anything that is said in

829
00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:44.239
the police they can't you can't be used against you

830
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:47.599
in a court of law. Yeah, or anything that you say,

831
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:50.559
or any evidence that you might say, like oh, the

832
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:54.199
green car was involved in the hold up at the bank.

833
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:57.079
Well if you say that without Miranda rights, that can't

834
00:43:57.079 --> 00:43:58.679
even be evidence used against you.

835
00:43:58.960 --> 00:43:59.239
Yeah.

836
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:00.800
So I know that's what the words say.

837
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:03.880
But then yeah, the reality of it is that it's.

838
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:06.360
Very very important. Yeah.

839
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:10.679
During the interview, Gil denied keeping medazolam at his dental

840
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:13.360
practice and feigned not knowing what it was.

841
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.239
So that was part of the Miranda rights issue that

842
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.639
they had talked about them Medazzlamb during the police interview,

843
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:22.559
and they couldn't bring it up at the trial.

844
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:27.960
Yeah. Interesting. The medical examiner who conducted Tom's autopsy testified

845
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:30.920
he said, quote, I didn't have a good cause of

846
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:34.960
death for mister Coleman unquote. He also testified that it

847
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:38.320
was possible that Tom could have been self medicating medazolam.

848
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:41.760
In the weeks before his death, it was discovered that

849
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:45.199
Tom was buying testosterone online and having it shipped to

850
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:46.719
a secret po box.

851
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:49.360
Why does someone buy testosterone?

852
00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:51.599
I don't know. Is it for like working out or

853
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:52.719
bulking up?

854
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:54.679
I really it was working out. I think he had

855
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:56.159
lost some weight prior to his death.

856
00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:57.079
Yeah.

857
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.920
Tom was a physical therapist, and I believe in some

858
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:04.679
states physical therapists can write prescriptions. Okay, So it's possible

859
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:08.079
he could have gotten me dazzle lamb on his own, okay.

860
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:10.239
Or even if he couldn't have, maybe he worked in

861
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:14.559
a medical facility that had prescription drugs on hand, possibly,

862
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:17.079
though I know that stuff was pretty tightly controlled.

863
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:20.239
Yeah. No, I think that the physical therapist office that

864
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:22.159
he worked at probably didn't have at hand.

865
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:23.280
Yeah, because I.

866
00:45:23.199 --> 00:45:24.599
Don't believe it was part of it. He worked for

867
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:28.360
Optum Health, so I don't think it was in a hospital.

868
00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:31.719
Okay, interesting though that he had a secret po box,

869
00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:34.159
so Tom had some secrets of his own.

870
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:37.440
It seems yeah, possibly. I think Tom was under a

871
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:39.880
great deal of stress. Yeah, it seemed like a very

872
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:40.679
stressed out guy.

873
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:45.199
Yeah, sounds like it. A forensic video analyst sorted through

874
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.360
traffic and surveillance camera footage near the Planet Fitness and

875
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:51.639
he was able to piece together footage of the white

876
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.800
suv that parked next to Tom Coleman on the morning

877
00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:58.440
of his death that Planet Fitness. Sifting through an FBI

878
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:03.039
database of over eighteen vehicles, the expert believed the closest

879
00:46:03.079 --> 00:46:07.000
match was a twenty ten Nissan Pathfinder. And who drove

880
00:46:07.079 --> 00:46:09.760
a twenty ten Nissan Pathfinder? I think I can guess

881
00:46:10.360 --> 00:46:14.840
Gilberto Nunez correct. There is a science called headlight spread

882
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.760
pattern analysis that studies the unique beam of headlights. Who knew,

883
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.800
I did not know. Experts believe that vehicles have unique

884
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:26.960
headlight patterns. The white suv from the Planet Fitness video

885
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:31.079
had a headlight defect that cast a distinctly shaped, bright

886
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:35.599
white shadow onto the roadway before it Police seized Gill's

887
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:39.639
pathfinder and tested the headlights. They also emitted the odd

888
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:44.119
shaped light. Investigators were confident that Gill's vehicle was the

889
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:47.199
same one from the video. It was their best evidence

890
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:47.880
against Gil.

891
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:50.800
So this is kind of crazy to me because I

892
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:53.679
think this is one of those avenues of science that

893
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:58.079
could be called junk science. Yes, and you know this

894
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:03.159
expert witness. It's a little dubious in my opinion. And

895
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:07.000
for a while I did work at a Chrysler factory

896
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:10.119
where I was very young, and one of the tests

897
00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:13.119
we did was a headlight test, and you would think,

898
00:47:13.159 --> 00:47:18.119
of one Nissan pathfinder could have this defect, maybe another

899
00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:19.960
one could, right, I don't know.

900
00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:22.800
Yeah, I would. I would think this it does sound

901
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.400
a little like junk science, although it does. You know,

902
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:28.239
if there is a unique headlight pattern, I could see that. Okay,

903
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:31.119
there wouldn't be a big chance that, you know, many

904
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:34.000
other vehicles would have the same thing. But seems like

905
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:34.960
a little bit of a stretch.

906
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:37.360
It's not a slam dunk for me.

907
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:41.679
No me neither. However, there was no surveillance video of

908
00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:44.400
Gil leaving or arriving at his home in the early

909
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:47.639
morning hours of November twenty ninth, further connecting him to

910
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:52.360
the crime scene. Moreover, Gill's vehicle had decals and emergency

911
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.880
lights because he was a volunteer firefighter, neither of which

912
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.920
could be discerned from the surveillance videos. The expert said

913
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:05.039
the resolution was too poor, not necessarily that they weren't there. Additionally,

914
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:07.960
making Gill look rather guilty was that he had sold

915
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:10.800
his niece on Pathfinder in the weeks after Tom's death,

916
00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:14.920
but investigators were able to track it down. They confirmed

917
00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:19.719
that Gill's Pathfinder did have the headlight aberration. The defense

918
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:23.159
argued that Gil loved Tom and considered him his best friend.

919
00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:27.199
Gil was a gentleman with no history of violence. There

920
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:31.039
was no DNA or forensic evidence linking Gill to Tom's murder.

921
00:48:31.880 --> 00:48:34.079
The searches on the computer could have been done by

922
00:48:34.119 --> 00:48:37.360
anyone at the office. They claimed that Tom could have

923
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:40.360
had a sexual encounter in his vehicle, explaining why his

924
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:43.639
pants and shirt were undone. They pointed to an email

925
00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:47.199
on Tom's phone from b naughty dot com, but it

926
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:50.559
was never opened. Or did Gill stage the crime scene

927
00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.679
to make it look like a hookup gone wrong. The

928
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:57.159
detectives who worked the case said, quote. If their theory

929
00:48:57.239 --> 00:48:59.000
is going to be that he met a lady from

930
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:02.320
b naughty dot com that drove a white suv and

931
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:04.760
had access to Madazzle Lamb at five point thirty in

932
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.679
the morning at Planet Fitness, they ought to start playing

933
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:10.480
the lotto on that one. If that's the case on quote,

934
00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:15.159
that's a good point. That would be quite quite the coincidence.

935
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:18.079
Right, Like, who, I don't think many women would you know,

936
00:49:18.199 --> 00:49:22.400
try to drug a man that she was meeting in, right, Yeah,

937
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:25.039
Like what would the intent be? He wasn't his wallet

938
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:26.679
was still there, his phone was still there.

939
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:27.280
Yeah.

940
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:30.199
But you know, the defense they're trying to cast any

941
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:35.119
doubt they can, right. The defense also questioned the autopsy report.

942
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:38.199
The amount of medazzle Lamb in Tom's body was unknown,

943
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.280
but didn't appear to be a lethal dose, and although

944
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:44.760
the drug was found in Gill's office, the vials were

945
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:48.079
unopened and free of Gill's fingerprints, but there could have

946
00:49:48.119 --> 00:49:50.320
been other vials that were open.

947
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:52.000
Well, that is a good point. I was gonna mention

948
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:53.639
that at the end, but I'll just say it now

949
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.239
that this kit was he got a new kit every year,

950
00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:00.840
and could he have taken the drug, but that that

951
00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:04.559
would have been way premeditated. Too true, But he could

952
00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:08.159
have been stockpiling the vials of medaslamb. But I read

953
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:11.519
in a New York article that that would have taken

954
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:16.719
like five years for him to accumulate that amount of medaslamb.

955
00:50:16.760 --> 00:50:16.920
Oh.

956
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:20.280
Really, had he taken it from the emergency kid interesting

957
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:21.800
and some kind of surprising to me.

958
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:23.800
And if he had ordered it for some other reason,

959
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:27.840
they I'm guessing that type of thing gets tracked pretty closely,

960
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:31.760
so I'm sure they think, yeah, interesting.

961
00:50:32.320 --> 00:50:35.639
I think in general it's it's a safe drug. It's

962
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:37.920
just used for anesthesia purposes.

963
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:41.360
Right. The defense called a medical expert who said that

964
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.280
Tom's cause of death was likely due to an enlarged

965
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:47.679
heart due to heart disease. They said that his heart

966
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:49.400
was quote ready to burst.

967
00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:52.960
After doing our podcast for two years, isn't one of

968
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:56.159
your big takeaways that you could find an expert to

969
00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:57.239
say just about anything?

970
00:50:57.360 --> 00:50:57.679
Yes?

971
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:00.440
Absolutely, For just.

972
00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:04.480
Six hours of deliberation, the jury returned the verdict. What

973
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:08.119
is your opinion on a short amount of deliberation time?

974
00:51:08.679 --> 00:51:09.480
A short amount?

975
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:12.079
Yeah, because six hours is pretty darn short. That's really

976
00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:14.119
short for three weeks of trial.

977
00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:15.079
Yes, it is.

978
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:17.440
Do you think it's usually a good sign for the

979
00:51:17.480 --> 00:51:18.679
defendant or a bad sign?

980
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:20.599
I would think that would be a bad sign for

981
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.559
the defendant. Yeah, but it could really be either.

982
00:51:23.599 --> 00:51:25.159
I guess what do you think the verdict was?

983
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:31.920
I think guilty, but I'm hesitating a little bit because

984
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:34.840
I can definitely see that there could be some reasonable

985
00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:35.320
doubt here.

986
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:39.840
Not guilty of second degree murder. However, Gil was found

987
00:51:39.880 --> 00:51:43.559
guilty of two charges of forgery in regards to the

988
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:47.800
CIA documents that he created, with a maximum sentence of

989
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:52.639
seven years. Tom's family was distraught. They were very upset

990
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:56.360
about this. Linda was outraged that Gil hadn't been convicted

991
00:51:56.360 --> 00:51:59.559
of Tom's murder. She shouted expletives at Gil after the

992
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:05.039
verdict read psychotic, sociopathic, lying, zack of shit. She yelled

993
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:08.400
as her friends escorted her out of the courtroom. Forty

994
00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:11.280
eight hours talked to TU jurors that said they thought

995
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:15.280
the prosecution didn't prove their case. There wasn't enough evidence.

996
00:52:15.320 --> 00:52:19.320
They said. Most believed Tom had died of natural causes.

997
00:52:20.119 --> 00:52:22.599
Dateline talked to TU jurors who came up with their

998
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:24.440
own theory of how Tom died.

999
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:28.440
From the very beginning, I believed that Nunez was there

1000
00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:34.039
at the scene but as a friend to help Coleman

1001
00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:39.360
get some rest that he hadn't been getting, and that

1002
00:52:39.440 --> 00:52:44.000
he left and everything was fine, and he was as

1003
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:48.239
much surprised with Tom's death as anybody else.

1004
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:48.480
Was.

1005
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:51.840
What she is saying there is she thought Gil was

1006
00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:55.400
being a good friend and giving Tom the medazlam to

1007
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:56.559
help him sleep better.

1008
00:52:56.800 --> 00:52:59.199
Yeah, I guess I can. I guess I could see

1009
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:02.840
that that would be a possibility. Yeah, and then Gil

1010
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:04.239
would lie about it because.

1011
00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:06.440
He you know, well, if you didn't know all the

1012
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:12.440
other things about Samantha and you know, giving Linda a

1013
00:53:12.440 --> 00:53:15.360
case of money and posing to her and asking her

1014
00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:16.800
to leave her, you know, yeah.

1015
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:19.679
All those things make Gil seem much more suspicious. But

1016
00:53:19.719 --> 00:53:23.320
if you didn't know those things, yeah, I could see.

1017
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:25.480
After the trial was over, Gil was hit with an

1018
00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:29.559
eight count indictment unrelated to Tom Coleman's death. The charges

1019
00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:33.960
included five counts of falsifying business records in the first degree,

1020
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:38.920
third degree grand larceny, and third degree insurance fraught. Each

1021
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:41.199
of the eight counts carried a sentence of one to

1022
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:44.719
three years. The charges stem from an insurance claim Gill

1023
00:53:44.840 --> 00:53:47.559
made on a property he owned near his dental practice

1024
00:53:47.559 --> 00:53:51.360
that burned down. The insurance company didn't dispute the fire,

1025
00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:55.159
but claimed that Gil had inflated the property's value by

1026
00:53:55.239 --> 00:54:00.119
five percent, or eight thousand dollars. Gil was charged with

1027
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:03.440
two counts of second degree perjury, first degree offering a

1028
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:07.360
false instrument for filing, and first degree making an apparently

1029
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:11.599
sworn false statement for failing to disclose his dishonorable discharge

1030
00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:15.039
from the US Marine Corps on a gun permit application.

1031
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:15.679
Wow.

1032
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:18.760
Gil had gone a well from the Marines after basic

1033
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:23.000
training from August nineteen eighty seven to July nineteen ninety

1034
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:26.239
so after basic training he just split didn't go back.

1035
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:29.400
According to the Times Harald Record, Gil checked no to

1036
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:33.159
the question of whether he had ever been quote terminated,

1037
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:37.119
discharged from any employment or the armed fought forces for

1038
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:40.360
cause end quote when he applied for his gun permit.

1039
00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:43.320
So I'm not defending Gil at all here, but these

1040
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:45.639
seem like they're like really going out, They're trying to

1041
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.239
find any reason to go after him.

1042
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:50.039
Well, I mean, this happens a lot, right If you

1043
00:54:50.079 --> 00:54:52.639
get off on a crime, you know, the da.

1044
00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:54.519
Is like, we know, we know he did it.

1045
00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:56.519
So no, he's guilty. So we're going to get him

1046
00:54:56.559 --> 00:54:59.079
on all these little right, I mean the gun, I

1047
00:54:59.119 --> 00:55:02.480
mean it's kind of it is Nutsah, these are pretty

1048
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:06.519
minor offensive that probably I Uri committed them, they'd probably

1049
00:55:06.599 --> 00:55:07.119
be thrown out.

1050
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:10.000
Well again, the five percent, you inflate your property's value

1051
00:55:10.000 --> 00:55:12.920
by five percent, that seems so so minor.

1052
00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:16.039
Yes. Gil was found guilty on all of these charges.

1053
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:19.199
During sentencing, the prosecutor fought hard for the maximum of

1054
00:55:19.239 --> 00:55:23.079
twenty five years, while the defense argued for leniency based

1055
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:26.119
on Gill's lack of criminal record and standing in the community.

1056
00:55:26.599 --> 00:55:30.679
Gil produced one hundred and thirty character reference letters of support.

1057
00:55:31.280 --> 00:55:35.239
Judge Donald Williams told Gil quote, tragically, you believe that

1058
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:38.280
society's rules do not apply to you. I see no

1059
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:42.480
chance of rehabilitation. Gil was sentenced to two years four

1060
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:46.320
months to seven years. Clearly the prosecutor had an ax

1061
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:50.039
to grind after losing the murder case against Gil. He

1062
00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:53.840
only served nineteen months out of the potential seven year sentence. However,

1063
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:58.840
he served at altona correctional facility, a medium security prison.

1064
00:55:59.320 --> 00:56:02.000
Gil at each fifty one was released from prison on

1065
00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:06.760
September tenth, twenty eighteen, his dental license was revoked. I

1066
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:08.920
think he was really upset about that because he really

1067
00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:13.960
did love practicing dentistry. He was on probation until October

1068
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:16.639
twenty twenty three. As far as I know, he has

1069
00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:19.679
had no further problems with the law. As part of

1070
00:56:19.719 --> 00:56:23.199
his release, he was forbidden to have any communication with

1071
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:27.920
Linda Coleman. In twenty sixteen, while Gill was out on bail.

1072
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:30.880
After serving forty one days in jail, he returned to

1073
00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:35.599
his practice and his longtime patient, acclaimed writer James Lasden

1074
00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.079
broke a tooth, and out of desperation, he went to

1075
00:56:39.159 --> 00:56:43.000
Gill for emergency treatment. He and, to be clear, like

1076
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:48.039
he loved Gil, but after his whole situ legal trouble,

1077
00:56:48.159 --> 00:56:50.280
he was kind of like, yeah, I probably should find

1078
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:53.920
another dentist. The writer walked into a nearly empty and

1079
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.440
depressing practice. Gil's loyal office manager assured him that he

1080
00:56:58.480 --> 00:57:01.960
was innocent of any wrongdoing. Gil told him that Tom's

1081
00:57:01.960 --> 00:57:04.400
death had ruined his life. With a million dollars in

1082
00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:08.280
legal fees and a ruined reputation, James felt inspired to

1083
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:11.880
write a piece for New Yorker magazine titled My Dentist's

1084
00:57:11.960 --> 00:57:15.119
Murder Trial. It's a very good article, and he is

1085
00:57:15.159 --> 00:57:19.480
adapting the piece into a docu series starring Pedro Pascal

1086
00:57:19.639 --> 00:57:23.320
and David Harber. It was announced in July twenty twenty two.

1087
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:28.159
I think they're still making it. I haven't seen any

1088
00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:29.159
updates on it.

1089
00:57:29.480 --> 00:57:31.920
Things move slowly in Hollywood, but that's interesting.

1090
00:57:32.400 --> 00:57:36.960
Yeah, Well, the rest in peace, Tom Coleman and Brad Coleman.

1091
00:57:37.119 --> 00:57:39.400
Here's Gillian Coleman remembering her dad.

1092
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:43.239
My dad was a hard working family man. He was

1093
00:57:44.320 --> 00:57:48.400
an amazing man that was unfortunately never shown in the

1094
00:57:48.440 --> 00:57:52.800
trial or anything like that. He would call at least

1095
00:57:52.840 --> 00:57:56.760
once a week and he would always be you know,

1096
00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:00.079
how did you do on that test? Or what he

1097
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:02.519
got coming up this weekend, or he would ask you

1098
00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:06.239
about Brad's football games and stuff. He was very in

1099
00:58:06.280 --> 00:58:08.960
the know about our lives and he would always give

1100
00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:12.800
great advice. Every winter we would go snow tubing and

1101
00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:15.480
it was just so that was so much fun.

1102
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:15.960
All the time.

1103
00:58:16.039 --> 00:58:17.960
He would tucker us out and we'd get home and

1104
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.719
just watch movies and Dad would always lay on the

1105
00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:24.519
floor and eventually halfway through the movie he'd get up

1106
00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:28.239
and just kind of silently starts scooping ice cream and

1107
00:58:28.519 --> 00:58:30.320
canting them out, not even say anything.

1108
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:32.880
That's so sad.

1109
00:58:33.960 --> 00:58:36.000
It's very sad. It's so hard to lose your dad.

1110
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:40.119
So Linda remains estrange from Tom's family. Chillian, who we

1111
00:58:40.199 --> 00:58:42.559
just heard speak, said she forgives her but doesn't want

1112
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:46.039
a relationship with her. Linda told Dateline that she feels

1113
00:58:46.079 --> 00:58:48.880
guilt every minute of every day for what happened to

1114
00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:52.440
Tom and her family. She said she understands why they

1115
00:58:52.440 --> 00:58:56.400
hate her, and she has filed a wrongful death lawsuit

1116
00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:59.000
against Gill, which I was not able to find any

1117
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:03.400
information about. Gil also led on a marriage license application,

1118
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:06.440
not divulging his first marriage, and as far as I know,

1119
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:07.440
he's on his third marriage.

1120
00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:07.639
Right.

1121
00:59:09.079 --> 00:59:10.760
So, do you think that Gil had a strong enough

1122
00:59:10.760 --> 00:59:13.639
motive to kill Tom? Tom was okay with the affair,

1123
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:17.400
and the whole amount of Medazzleam in Tom's body was

1124
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:21.679
a therapeutic dose, not an obvious overdose. Yeah, if Gil

1125
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:24.320
was really trying to kill Tom, I mean, he would

1126
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:25.519
have given him much more.

1127
00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:27.639
That is the thing I'm struggling with a little bit.

1128
00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:29.480
I think he did have a motive because if he

1129
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.679
felt like Linda was going to dump him, that the

1130
00:59:32.719 --> 00:59:34.360
writing was on the wall, that she was going to

1131
00:59:34.360 --> 00:59:36.800
get back, you know, and work on her marriage and

1132
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:39.519
you know, end things with Gil. So I think he

1133
00:59:39.559 --> 00:59:42.599
did have a motive from that perspective, But the the

1134
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:45.400
dosage of the drug I struggle with a little bit.

1135
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:48.679
But I don't know. I guess, in my heart of hearts,

1136
00:59:48.679 --> 00:59:51.440
I feel like he did have a motive, and he did.

1137
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:53.719
He clearly was the only one that had a motive, right.

1138
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:56.199
And he's the only one with access to the madazzle am.

1139
00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:58.599
Well not, I mean Linda did too because she worked

1140
00:59:58.639 --> 01:00:02.559
in a hospital. Yeah, but yeah, I don't really see that, right.

1141
01:00:03.559 --> 01:00:06.239
Do you think that Tom and Gil could have been

1142
01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:07.599
involved romantically?

1143
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:11.679
I mean, it's certainly possible that the whole thing just

1144
01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:15.519
seems very strange that Tom seemed to be okay and

1145
01:00:15.679 --> 01:00:18.840
was still hanging out with Gil, even knowing that Gil

1146
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:21.480
was sleeping with his wife. I just I can't imagine that.

1147
01:00:22.679 --> 01:00:26.039
So who knows, you know, possibly something else was going

1148
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:26.400
on there.

1149
01:00:26.440 --> 01:00:28.559
I think probably not, but it was it is very

1150
01:00:28.599 --> 01:00:30.800
strange that I think Tom was just I think it

1151
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:33.360
was a really nice guy. And he just didn't want

1152
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:35.880
to break up his family and wanted Linda to be

1153
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:38.239
happy and to figure things out.

1154
01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:40.960
Yeah, I guess, I just it's so hard to imagine,

1155
01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:45.199
but maybe. So what is your opinion after researching this case?

1156
01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:48.800
Do you think that Gil is responsible for Tom's death?

1157
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:50.320
You know, I hate to say it, but I am

1158
01:00:50.360 --> 01:00:53.880
not sure. Yeah, I think that he is the only

1159
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.760
one that had a motive. But also Tom did have

1160
01:00:57.800 --> 01:01:00.360
some health issues, so could it have been a hard tech.

1161
01:01:01.639 --> 01:01:04.960
All of Gil's other shady behavior makes me believe that

1162
01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:07.679
he definitely had something to do with Tom's death. Yes,

1163
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:10.039
I agree, because he said that Tom was his best friend,

1164
01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:13.559
but he also was willing to propose to Linda, and

1165
01:01:13.719 --> 01:01:15.119
I'm sure that he didn't tell Tom that.

1166
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:15.880
Yeah.

1167
01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:18.320
Yeah, and the whole thing with like the the text

1168
01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:22.039
messages from this Samantha person that he made up of. Yeah,

1169
01:01:22.199 --> 01:01:24.519
it tells me he's a little off in the head.

1170
01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:28.880
And yeah, very strange. Well, I did watch there was

1171
01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:32.079
a forty eight hours episode and a dateline and they

1172
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:34.880
were both really good. We'll link them to the show notes,

1173
01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:37.480
and all of our other sources that I used are

1174
01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:40.480
also in our show notes. Well, we'll put a link

1175
01:01:40.519 --> 01:01:42.280
to the chips if you want to buy the chips.

1176
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:43.360
Yes, of course.

1177
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:51.840
Before we go, I was going to do a quick

1178
01:01:52.239 --> 01:01:55.039
quiz with you. Well, we know each other, so if

1179
01:01:55.039 --> 01:01:57.039
you don't want to hear anything more about us or

1180
01:01:57.679 --> 01:02:01.760
just stop the case here, Thanks for this sing We'll

1181
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:05.000
talk to you next time. Okay, where did first one's

1182
01:02:05.119 --> 01:02:06.159
first couple? Are you easy?

1183
01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:07.679
I'm nervous about this quiz.

1184
01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:09.719
Well, I was going to have your answer before, but

1185
01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:11.920
I figured we would just do it live. Okay, where

1186
01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:13.639
did you first meet? That one's easy?

1187
01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:14.239
In church?

1188
01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:18.840
Kevin and Cindy's Yes. Where was your first date? Which

1189
01:02:19.079 --> 01:02:20.440
depends how you Yeah, it.

1190
01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:25.280
Really depends on how we find date. I mean I'm

1191
01:02:25.320 --> 01:02:27.760
going to say it was going to see Forrest Gump

1192
01:02:28.320 --> 01:02:29.199
in the movie theater.

1193
01:02:29.320 --> 01:02:30.920
Okay, Well, I just said when you came to my

1194
01:02:31.159 --> 01:02:34.440
apartment when I lived, like you lived in Michigan, I

1195
01:02:34.440 --> 01:02:36.760
lived in Illinois. You came to see me. I just

1196
01:02:36.760 --> 01:02:39.400
feel like that was a whole weekend, which in retrospect

1197
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:41.920
is so weird. I know, I was just like, oh, sure,

1198
01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.199
come stay the weekend at my studio apartment.

1199
01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:45.760
That I hardly know.

1200
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:48.760
Yeah, where was your first kiss?

1201
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:53.559
Well, I think it was at the Well, we disagree

1202
01:02:53.559 --> 01:02:55.480
on this one. We had a we talked about this

1203
01:02:55.639 --> 01:02:56.960
and we.

1204
01:02:56.920 --> 01:03:00.039
Had agree, yes, because I first kiss was.

1205
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:02.000
I know where it was too. It was at the

1206
01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:06.000
club that we were like after the second wedding reception.

1207
01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:06.760
You are wrong.

1208
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:09.559
I don't think I'm wrong. But we did not.

1209
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:14.039
Kiss that night. We did not sure that we did. Okay, well,

1210
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:17.159
now we didn't. We're just like having a conversation without

1211
01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:17.920
our listeners.

1212
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:21.119
Well, we met at a wedding.

1213
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:23.760
And then we basically talked about this on Patreon episode.

1214
01:03:23.800 --> 01:03:26.119
But we met at our friend's wedding. Really, they had

1215
01:03:26.119 --> 01:03:27.199
a second wedding.

1216
01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:28.519
It was Michigan.

1217
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:31.199
Yeah, and your first wedding was in Illinois. Yes, and

1218
01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:33.840
I came to Michigan. We met at the first wedding.

1219
01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:37.239
We didn't really hooked up with other people. That's what

1220
01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:38.760
you do when you're in your twenties and you're at

1221
01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:42.000
a wedding, right, So, yeah, we had came to the

1222
01:03:42.039 --> 01:03:45.880
second reception and then that's when you found me irresistible. Well,

1223
01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:49.119
but not until right before I left to go back

1224
01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:52.679
to Illinois. Okay, I remember it differently, But we did

1225
01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:56.440
not kiss that night because I remember, I was, Okay,

1226
01:03:56.519 --> 01:03:57.599
all right, we'll we're get up.

1227
01:03:57.960 --> 01:04:01.440
I have to find some you've forgotten our first kiss.

1228
01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:03.599
But okay, what is our favorite food?

1229
01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:09.719
It's our favorite food? What married couples don't have to

1230
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:10.960
have the same favorite food?

1231
01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:12.800
Well, what I mean? What is your favorite food? I

1232
01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:17.119
put fried chicken? As is your favorite food?

1233
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:21.360
Oh? Your favorite food?

1234
01:04:21.400 --> 01:04:21.599
Luck?

1235
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:23.840
I know, I don't really know. I really don't.

1236
01:04:23.760 --> 01:04:24.639
Don't know me at all.

1237
01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:25.840
I didn't.

1238
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:31.559
I don't know you just like you like snacks.

1239
01:04:31.559 --> 01:04:34.280
Like I know, I am more of us like board,

1240
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:36.920
I like, yeah, like chips and dep I'm with or

1241
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:39.639
chips and salsa. Yeah, I'm kind of a snack. I

1242
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:40.880
really am a snack.

1243
01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:41.239
Yeah.

1244
01:04:41.239 --> 01:04:43.719
Person who said I love you first?

1245
01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:47.320
Oh gosh, I don't know. I'm gonna say I did you?

1246
01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:47.559
Did?

1247
01:04:47.679 --> 01:04:48.440
You don't remember?

1248
01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:49.119
I don't.

1249
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:51.119
I actually remember vividly. But we're not going to go

1250
01:04:51.119 --> 01:04:51.440
into that.

1251
01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:51.719
Okay.

1252
01:04:51.719 --> 01:04:54.280
What is your partner's favorite color? Green?

1253
01:04:54.599 --> 01:04:55.000
Yellow?

1254
01:04:55.559 --> 01:04:59.039
Right? What is his or her favorite movie?

1255
01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:05.559
Oh it's John Cusack, the one, the.

1256
01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:10.199
One, Uh when I was like an early, when I

1257
01:05:10.239 --> 01:05:14.800
was younger, but I think it's not anymore. No, there's another. Yeah,

1258
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:17.440
I have yours is Delicatessen, which I don't know if

1259
01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:19.159
you would say that anybody you used to say that,

1260
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:21.440
I love that movie. What was your favorite movie?

1261
01:05:21.440 --> 01:05:24.719
Then I would probably say Brazil Terry Gill.

1262
01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:28.519
Okay, okay, what is yours? Then I would say The

1263
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:29.559
Ice Worm?

1264
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:31.480
Oh, okay, I really love that movie.

1265
01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:34.880
You've never seen The Ice Worm. It's it's quirky, but

1266
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:38.960
I think it's really an interesting movie. What is your hobby?

1267
01:05:40.639 --> 01:05:43.559
I think we have the same hobby, right, true crime

1268
01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:45.280
podcast podcasting?

1269
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:45.559
Yes?

1270
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:49.039
What is your favorite sports team? This was a hard

1271
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:50.000
one for me to answer.

1272
01:05:50.039 --> 01:05:52.159
Yours is the Chicago Cubs, Yes.

1273
01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:56.000
And yours is the Detroit Tigers. I think you don't

1274
01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:56.960
even know, right.

1275
01:05:56.800 --> 01:05:59.480
Yeah, you could say the Tigers. You could say the Lions,

1276
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:00.519
you could say Michigan.

1277
01:06:01.239 --> 01:06:04.440
I think you really I think the Tigers Tigers because

1278
01:06:04.440 --> 01:06:05.199
it's nostalgia.

1279
01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:09.000
Yeah, definitely sentimental. I grew up obsessed with the Tigers.

1280
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:11.920
So yeah, what is your partner's favorite ice cream flavor?

1281
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:16.440
I said peanut butter for you, I mean.

1282
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:21.719
Not really, but for you, I think it's that brown butter.

1283
01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:25.519
What is it called? Jennies like brown?

1284
01:06:26.280 --> 01:06:26.519
Yeah?

1285
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:29.400
I like, uh yeah, or butter pecan or I kind

1286
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:31.760
of like things that have yeah, like that, what's yours

1287
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:32.679
if it's not peanut butter?

1288
01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:34.760
Well, I just like, I don't know, I don't really

1289
01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:37.039
have a favorite. I guess I just like something with

1290
01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:40.559
a lot of like chunks and chocolate. I like ice

1291
01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:43.239
cream with peanut butter in it, like chocolate and peanut butter.

1292
01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:46.480
Well, I hope that wasn't too boring for everyone.

1293
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:48.800
I'm glad I didn't get them all wrong.

1294
01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:52.039
Well, it's kind of our anniversary, so I don't know. Well,

1295
01:06:52.079 --> 01:06:54.639
we would love to hear your favorite ice cream flavor listener,

1296
01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:58.960
we would well, thank you so much for hanging out

1297
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:02.840
with us today. We areciate you so much. Please rate, review,

1298
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:05.800
follow and subscribe, Find us on social media, or send

1299
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:09.880
us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com, and

1300
01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:13.960
please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com. Slash Lovemrykill

1301
01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:17.280
one tier five dollars a month, add free access and

1302
01:07:17.599 --> 01:07:21.800
a monthly bonus episode until next time. Don't kill your

1303
01:07:21.800 --> 01:08:05.280
wife and don't kill your husband.