Linda and Tom Kolman

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned and over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife. And some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary, Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, How are you? I'm pretty good? How are you? You know? I'm okay. It's a little touch and go here today. Yeah, why is it touch and go? Well? We had our flu slash COVID vaccine yesterday and my arm is so sorry I can barely lift it. Yeahs your arm feeling? How are you feeling?

0:44 You know? Not too bad, little sore, a little rough when I woke up. But I took some motron and I'm pretty okay. So this is your reminder friends to get your vaccines. Yes, get it done. Speaking of being married for over twenty years, do you know what's coming up? Let me see August? What happens in August? Can't I can't think of it. It's our anniversary. I know, of course, you've been shopping for months, right. I need to get just the right piece of jewelry for my wife on this momentum exactly. I start shopping the day after your birthday in January that I start thinking about our anniversary. Yeah, I've been thinking about it for a while too, But I don't really exchange gifts normally, but hey, you never know your.

1:28 Hey, undying love is enough of a gift for me. Oh okay, i'll'll work on that. Our friend Kylie from Primetime Crime. We talk about Kylie a lot. I adore her. She's fabulous. She is a dedicated podcaster and I fear as advocate. She does a marvelous job. She's also a patron. She subscribes to our Patreon, which is so generous when other podcasters, you know, take the time and the expense of doing that for us. Kylie sent us a snack, No way he did. She's the best man. And it's like a really interesting snack. I'm gonna show it to you. It's she brought us these sent us these chips. Have you seen them in the coveroar?

2:11 No. So I have this cupboard listeners that I tend to put snacks in, and I shouldn't. I need to find a new cupboard because family is always discovering my snacks and really they're supposed to be for the podcast. But you broke into a really yummy snack. I mean, if you're putting yellow yummy snacks in the cupboard where they're available. And I oftentimes I'm naughty and you open the package and then everyone else is like it. But I have not seen these. Yeah, these were in the cupboard, but you didn't notice them. But they are sealed. Still I haven't tried them. So we have the original chips and then we have the extreme chips Extreme Yeah. And these chips come from the prison Commissary system.

2:52 Oh wow. Yeah, so these you get these if you're a prisoner and the people were being released from prison and they missed the chips so bad they would like they were asking the company to release them so they could buy them. Wow. So you can buy them now in regular by them. But it's really interesting. Their website has almost no information about the product. I and Kylie told me that, you know, they're called prison chips, and I just think it's really interesting that they have, you know, such a following. But they actually I'm not going to tell you what they taste like. Whe is like the regular chip, but they're seasoned chips. And the other one it says it's extreme. Heat okay, called the whole shebang? All right?

3:33 Oh oh, I forgot. I also brought my favorite all time snack really is chips and dip. So I also brought a container of French onion dip because I really, really truly love French onion dip. So, okay, we'll be right back after we try the snack. What did you think of the whole shebang? Well, I think it's another incentive for me to stay out of prison, because I don't love them too. They've got that like salt and vinegar type. Yeah, they're not a fan of salt and vinegar chips. There are salt and vinegar and barbecue at the same time. Okay, So I wasn't trip you would like them or not because you are kind of adverse to sour flavors.

4:14 Yeah. I think they're really good. They're very potent. I mean, they've got real, real, a. Lot of flavor there, and sometimes if a chip is a lot of flavor, you don't want as many of them because they're more satisfying. Yeah, and I will save the French onion dip. It helped for me because that kind of made the flavor a little more, uh, a little more mellow. Yeah. Yeah, hell of a hell of a good dip French onion dip. It's good stuff. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Kelly. That was the super fun. Yeah, that was really cool. I believe the chips are available on Amazon dot com, or you can go to the Whole Shebang website and order them there. Today, I'm going to tell you the story of Linda and Tom Coleman. This case was recommended by our listener friend Chelsea. Chelsea sends us several case recommendations a week. We can't get to all of them, but this one is pretty interesting. I think you're going to enjoy it.

5:04 I'm looking forward to it. And November twenty eighth, twenty eleven, the Monday after Thanksgiving, Tom Coleman stayed up late to watch his beloved New York Giants play on Monday Night Football. Unfortunately, the Giants lost to the New Orleans Saints forty nine to twenty four, although the Giants did go on that year to win the Super Bowl against Tom Brady and the New England Patriots twenty one to seventeen. You know how I love it when you talk about football. Right, I went the extra mile and I had to do research on that football season. Despite staying up late to watch the game, Tom got up early the next morning, at about four am to go to the gym in Kingston, New York, about fifteen minutes from his home that he shared with his wife, Linda, their son, and his stepdaughter in Sagerates, New York. Four am super early, so we're in the same time zone. If you stayed up to watch Monday night football, it would get over eleven thirty at the earliest each.

5:58 Closer to midnight's wow. So yeah, he's dedicated to his workouts or something. Most mornings, Tom went to the gym before heading to his job as a physical therapist. Linda remembers Tom kissing her goodbye tenderly that morning, one final kiss. Several hours later, around lunchtime, Linda received a call from her and Tom's friend, Gilberto Nunez or Gil. He asked if she knew where Tom was. Linda told him Tom was at work, but gil said he'd tried to reach Tom at work and a coworker told him that Tom hadn't made it in that day. Linda was shocked and confused. Tom never missed work. She realized that Tom hadn't answered her text messages that morning either, and she started to worry. Linda decided to try and retrace his footsteps. She drove to the Planet Fitness where Tom worked out at. She was relieved when she saw Tom's car in the parking lot. She pulled up alongside his car and found him reclined in the seat.

6:56 The seat was so far back Tom was almost lying flat. It appeared that Tom was sleeping, but when she opened the door and tried to wake him up, yelling his name, shaking him, eventually even slapping him and trying to pry his eyes open, Linda realized that her husband of ten years wasn't breathing. She called nine one. One, Oh, no, I'm in the park. I was looking. Are you able to check the paper of Chester going up and down? And I don't think it is Paramedics arrived on the scene three minutes later and declared Tom dad. His zipper was down and his belt buckle was undone, as were the first several buttons of his shirt. Linda was crying hysterically.

7:48 Gil Nunaz rushed to the scene to comfort her, but he was overcome with emotion. He began jumping up and down sobbing, and he fell to his knees in shock and grief. Paramedics quickly assessed that Tom had suffered from a cardiac event, but detectives came to the scene to investigate. Tom aged forty four, was slightly overweight, He had hypertension and severe sleep apnea, but was otherwise healthy. What could have caused this young man to die so suddenly and why was he at the gym at four thirty in the morning. Could there be fall play or did Tom die from natural causes. Tom Coleman was a soft spoken family man, a dedicated husband, loving father, and Little League coach.

8:31 His family was his first priority. He was a kind man, and those who knew him spoke about him glowingly. Tom was born on March twenty second, nineteen sixty seven in Queen's, New York, and grew up on Long Island with three siblings. He graduated from sunny Stony Brook and later earned his doctor writ in physical therapy from Damon College in Amherst, New York. He was a huge New York Giants fan. Linda took him to his first live game, a memory they both cherished, and Tom quickly fell in love. After meeting on an online dating app, y eloped to Las Vegas and October two thousand and one. The only people in attendance at the wedding were Linda and Tom's parents.

9:12 It was the second marriage for both. Linda had a daughter from her first marriage, and Tom had two children, a son Brad and a daughter, Jillian. He and his first wife, Michelle, divorced after twelve years of marriage. Tom's children lived in Colorado with Michelle. Despite the distance, he remained active in his children's life. Tom and Michelle were amicable and co parented well together, always putting their children first. Tom was in constant contact with them and saw them as much as possible. After Linda and Tom were married, they settled into a middle class neighborhood in Sagrates, New York, where Linda had grown up. Sagrates has a population of about twenty thousand. It's a picturesque village located in the Hudson Valley at the foot of the Catskill Mountains, about two hours north of New York City. Soon after their wedding, the Colemans welcomed a son named Ryan to complete their family.

10:03 Tom was overcome with emotion when Ryan was born he openly wept with joy. Despite Jillian and Brad living states away. Jillian described them to Dateline as a happy, close knit family, but as the years went by, Linda and Tom's marriage became strained. Linda and Tom both had good jobs, but they were never able to get ahead financially. Tom's divorce left him cash strapped due to alimony, travel expenses to see his children, and child support. Additionally, Linda's daughter had chronic health problems and their young son, Ryan had difficulties in school, which further strained the Coleman marriage. After Tom's sudden death, both Linda and Michelle were left with the heartbreaking task of telling their children that Tom was gone. The four children were heartbroken and attended the funeral united holding hands. A detective stealthily attended Tom's funeral, hoping to gain some new perspective on Tom. Tom's cause of death was ruled undetermined pending the toxicology report. There was no evidence of a heart attack, aneurysm, or condition that would cause a sudden death, or at least not one that the medical examiner found. Smothering could not be ruled out. Tom was a big man and not in the best overall health at two hundred and thirty pounds.

11:17 He was overweight with an enlarged heart and liver. He suffered from anxiety, depression, high blood pressure, and an extreme case of sleep apnea. He took medication for his blood pressure and an antidepressant. Despite these conditions, none of them seemed severe enough to cause his sudden death. In the hours after Tom's death, Linda was brought to the police station for questioning. She was the prime suspect. One of the first steps in the investigation was to review surveillance footage from the Planet Fitness gym that Tom attended in Kingston, about fifteen minutes from his house, in a strip mall next to a coal's department store. They found some curious activity in the parking lot. At four thirty seven am on the morning of November twenty eight, a few minutes after Tom had arrived, a white suv pulled into the parking lot and parked next to Tom. Both vehicles parked in the rear of the parking lot, far from the door to the gym. It appeared Tom must have known whoever was in the white suv. The two vehicles, parked side by side sat together for about thirty minutes shortly after five am, the white suv left the parking lot, but Tom's car remained. He never exited his car.

12:32 I should point out that this was in twenty eleven, so the footage was very grainy and you couldn't really discern if anyone got out of their car and got into the other vehicle or not. Plus if the cars were all the way at the back of the parking lot too, I'm guessing it was. The camera was a fair distance away from the. Cars as well, right, and it was still dark, so hard to really see a whole lot from that video. Yeah. Do Planet Fitnesses even open that early at like for. Twenty four hours? Oh? Really? Yeah? Cool? A couple of things stand out to me here. First of all, it was four thirty am, and if he was going to work out like he did most morning, I don't believe he went that early. But he parked as far away from the front door as he could.

13:15 And if you would go to the gym that early, you would park as close to the front. Door as you could, want to get the extra steps in you're going to work out, right, I. Don't know it. It makes me ner I mean, I don't know. I'm a woman, so it's different. But it's just I think it's great that gyms are open twenty four hours, but I would be really scared to be that early. The police brought in Tom's friend Gil. He was relaxed and forthcoming. He told investigators that Linda was having a hard time and that he had been spending time with her, helping her through the grieving process. The police were curious about Gil's relationship with Linda. Here's a clip of Gil's interview with the police. What was your relationship with Linda between July two, thy eleven and a.

13:56 Day times rules? Great, excellent, We had a great relationship, mkay. And you know what if I show you, I mean they they love cards that she gave me. I've got distributing the fact. No, no, no, you know do you know what I'm saying. But but that can tell the relationship of how somebody's still you know, towards somebody or anything like that. So a relationship, there was nothing wrong with her, it was it was our relationship got better. At that point between here and here. Yeah. Well, the reason being. That now Plumbe knew, so now all he wanted to know is like, okay, good guys are going out. I wanna know, so that way, you know, I don't wanna hear you know, somebody show you or the different that to the point of that for example, meaning that we went.

14:41 To New York City m uh or like three different times. Okay, two or three different times. That thing was two of uh two or three whatever. But one of the times we went to see Jersey Boys and he knew about it, you know, everything and all that you know, and he stayed with the boy at home and he daughter was working, was on the side of it, and we went down to the see the spending things and see so we there are we here and here. The relationship between me and Wind now was great, okay because now he knew, So it was better the relationship because. Now he knew about it. So why any relationship between me and him was. Also good because we used to talk about all other things. I remember first two thousand eleven and I've ever twenty after two thousand eleven, what was your relationship?

15:24 I was with playing the game, So it was good. We celebrated, you know, uh uh, you know on November you know, like every month, you know, like because we started the first time we pased. Was like we spend by sign and something like that. Yeah, so like every month to ten of. The morning, you know, like we likes changed the car on, you know, and have something. To eat and we got together. So so on November ten, we we went together. Yeah, you know, not that so you know we we were same thing. Same Thanksgiving together, right, Yeah? Yeah, a brother's house. I have a brother's house. Yes, And who was at Burgh Yeah, ross the street. I have brother's house. It's right, I'm being song. We sat there to each other and you know, we started food to me and we. Talk and we watched them they go gay together, all this stuff.

16:07 How would they make you feel somebody was ros reverse? Well, that's why I wanted him to know, because he was me. I wanted to know. All right, I'm guessing we're going to get more into Gil. But this sounds like he doesn't sound like he was just a friend. He might be a little more than just a friend. The detectives were shocked when he volunteered that he and Linda had been having an affair. I was a little shocked as well. He said the affair had been going on for about a year since December twenty ten, and that Tom was aware of it and was okay with it. Gil said they remained friends and still hung out and watched football together. Linda was brought back in for additional questioning and she admitted that she had been having a long term affair with Gil, but she loved Tom and he was her best friend. Tom and Gil texted sixty two times on the day before he died, but Gil deleted the texts. Tom's phone was found next to his body and the messages were also deleted from his phone.

17:07 Gil claimed they had just been texting about the Giants game. Gil denied deleting the texts. He accused the police of deleting the texts to make him look guilty. Forensic data experts were able to recover a portion of the texts, maybe twenty of them, and they were in fact about football. There were no text messages suggesting that to meet Gil at the gym the next morning. But did Gil just get lucky? We'll never know. So what do you think There's sixty two text messages and only twenty of them are able to be retrieved. He just got lucky, or I mean, it sort of seems that way because why. First, I don't think the police would delete these texts to frame him. That doesn't make any sense. So why would he delete these texts if they were truly just about football.

17:54 You do have to wonder, though, like what are the odds of you know, you get a third of the texts back that none of them had had anything to do with this potential meeting next morning? That is true, And I wonder why they couldn't get all of them back either. I guess well, it was twenty eleven. I was wondering this, and I was going to ask you to reach out to our friend Patrick. If certain phones, like maybe an Android is easier to delete things permanently than an iPhone, or if there's any or if you know, fifteen years ago, was it easier to delete messages and they just went away forever? Yeah? Good question. Gilbert to Nunez was a local dentist with a thriving practice in Kingston, New York. Kingston is a suburban city about ninety miles north of New York City. Gil is a native of the Dominican Republic. He has five sons with at least two different ex wives. Gil's office manager said he was always kind generous and a pleasure to work for. Mary Ellen McManus worked for doctor Nunez for thirteen years as a dental hygienist. She said that he was one of the best dentists that I've ever worked for.

19:00 Never heard him raise his voice, be angry, or fly off the handle, and his dental practice was very successful. Doctor Nuna's was benevolent with his patients and time. He provided free dental care for a woman's shelter and the Boys and Girls Club. He sometimes picked up elderly patients for their appointments at his office and then delivered them safely home. He was also a volunteer firefighter. So you're going to have some opinions about gil but he did do some very nice things. My dentist never comes and picks me up at home. I don't think you'd want to. Linda and Tom met doctor Gilberto Nunez and his wife at their son's kindergarten orientation in twenty ten. Gil helped Linda and Tom out with their bills when money was tight. He'd given them at least twelve thousand dollars, and when he and Linda were together, he bought her expensive clothes and jewelry and paid her credit card bill. Gil even encouraged Tom to go back to college, and he said he'd pay his tuition.

20:00 Tom was busy between his job and family and didn't have much time for friends until he met Gil. They became fast friends and they considered each other their best friend. They went on double dates with their wives, but soon after Gil and his wife separated, Gil's son and Linda and tom son Ryan, began taking karate lessons together. Linda and Gil usually brought their sons to class and stayed to observe, which gave them several hours each week to talk while the boys took class. Gil confided in Linda about his heartbreak over his divorce, and their relationship began slowly building. At first, Gil would give Linda a hug as they parted, but the hug transitioned to a kiss on the cheek and then eventually a kiss on the lips.

20:42 And then one night, Gil called Linda and told her he had feelings for her. He told her that he had fallen in love with her. Linda went to Gill's office to have some dental work done, and well, you can imagine what happened, I can She began going to his office during the lunch hour, or sometimes they'd rent a hotel room. Gil wanted Linda to leave Tom, but she refused to break up her family. In February twenty eleven, Linda met Gill at a hotel. When she arrived, Gil handed her a briefcase and told her to open it. It was filled with one hundred thousand dollars in cash. He told her if she left her husband, she could keep it. She angrily left the hotel room, but she forgave him and their affair continued. Gil later said that he was testing her to see if she was just with him for his money.

21:29 Wow, that's pretty bizarre. Linda and Gil were very romantic and celebrated their anniversary monthly. Linda frequently gave cards to Gil and referred to him as her little devil or stud muffin. On their eleven month anniversary, Linda wrote, I love you and I will always love you. I had no idea eleven months ago that my life was about to change in the way that it has. But look at us today, so much love and passion and compassion for each other. A few months into their affair, Linda received Techi messages from someone named Samantha. She claimed that she and Tom were having an affair. Linda didn't confront Tom about Samantha. Instead, she confided in Gil about the text messages. Gil told Linda that he had a friend in this CIA who could help investigate the matter, because that's what the CIA was there for.

22:18 Of course. A week later, Gil gave Linda a two page letter from the CIA. Here's an excerpt from the letter. Sometimes we as human beings, believe that we know a person's character and behavior very well just because we have cohabitated with that person for many years. But we all can make mistakes in life, and as research has proven, people fall out of love all the time, and they stay in a relationship for numerous reasons except for love. Sincerely, Agent seven five three two four six nine one O two what three telephone number seven five Never. It sounds exactly like what you would expect from a CIA investigative report.

23:01 Yeah, and that's what they do. The CIA agent also told Linda that she should forgive her husband. Linda there said the letter sounded like it was written by a two year old, but she believed that at the time. Really, Tom told Linda that he wasn't having an affair, and he had no idea who this Samantha woman was. Months later, in July, Samantha texted Tom and told him that his wife was having an affair with her dentist. Samantha didn't just send one or two texts. She sent over one thousand texts over two days, with pictures. Tom wasn't able to stop thinking about the text messages, and he decided to hire a private investigator. He told Gil about his plan, but Gil once again offered the help of his friend in this CIA. He told Tom his friend was a computer expert who could help him find the origins of the text mess.

23:54 It sounds like he's not only a computer expert, but he's a relationship expert as well. Well, maybe it was more than one frame. Gil paid the information technology technician who maintained the servers at his office five hundred dollars. Suppose as a CIA agent, Gil had purchased a fake CIA badge online, But before the meeting could take place, he admitted to Tom that he had sent the text messages to him. He was Samantha and he was having an affair with Linda. Gil told forty eight hours that He created Samantha because he felt guilty and wanted to tell Tom about his affair with Linda, but didn't know how to tell him. Gil said he went to Tom and got on his hands and knees and begged him for his forgiveness, and Tom forgave him.

24:41 Believe it or not. Tom confronted Linda and she admitted that she was having an affair with Gil, but she wasn't ready to end their marriage. She has Tom for time to figure things out. Months later, when Linda learned that Gil had sent Tom the text messages, she was infuriated and confronted him. Gil denied sending the text messages and accused Tom of sending the messages to himself. So this love triangle is just it's just a mess. It's a mess, and Gil seems very stipulative. Yeah. After the confrontation, Gil called both Tom and Linda and left the messages, saying he loved them and goodbye. Tom called the police and they checked on Gil and found him alive and well. He told police that he'd had a moment of weakness and had no intention of taking his own life. Gil's deception didn't end with the Samantha character.

25:31 Linda received an email from Gil's mother begging her not to end the affair with him. The email claimed it was quote God's plan for Linda and Gil to be together, she wrote, referring to Linda and Tom, quote you both will have a miserable life and will end up breaking up anyway. But the email you're going to be shocked, I know actually sent from an email account created by Gil. I can't believe. It's hard to believe, but Gil and Tom continue to be friends. In fact, they grew closer than ever and even spent more time together. Tom told Linda that Gil was the best friend he'd ever had. Investigators checked their phone records and confirmed that the men did in fact continue to talk and text after the affair was revealed.

26:17 They texted dozens of times a day. In one text exchange, Tom texted Gil, quote, your girlfriend is baking. He responded great, I love her so much, and Tom and Gil frequently signed off on their text with I love yous. Gil continued to go over to the Coleman's house to watch football games and have dinners. Some nights they all went out together, and other nights just Linda and Gil went out and Tom stayed with the kids. Gil even set Tom up on a few dates. Linda said she was torn between the two men. She loved them both and needed time and space to make the decision. Tom tried to give her what she needed, but Gil pressured her to make a decision. He bought her an engagement ring in September and proposed, and she turned him down.

27:02 This whole relationship is just so bizarre to me. It almost sounds like there is like a throutle thing going on here. It really does. And I don't have no idea. Yeah, it's strange. It's very strange. It's very strange. Tom's ex wife, Michelle Coleman Weber told Forty eight Hours quote, the man that I knew probably would have done anything to keep his family together, and I could understand where he was thinking it would work out in the end. End quote. After Tom's death, his parents were shocked he would be okay with the affair between Linda and Gil. After a family get away in November twenty eleven to celebrate their anniversary, Linda made a decision.

27:42 And I think it was really that weekend that I realized that I just want I just want to be with my husband. He's my best friend. I love him. I don't want to do this anymore. I've been stupid and foolish and ridiculous, and it's I don't want to do it anymore. That was Linda talking to Dateline. Linda continued to send text messages to Gil while on the family trip. She sent him a message that said she loved him and missed him. Quote, I love you, I miss holding your hand and that soft spot and scar on your face. Woma wah sorry. Gill's response was measured, Mia Moore, don't do anything please. You said to me that you don't want to make any decisions until after the holidays. I am going by what you said you want. On November twenty first, Skill texted Linda, quote your kisses today, I can still feel them. OMG, Linda, it seemed was kind of playing both men. She told Dateline that she was afraid Gil would take his own life if she broke up with him. He once emailed her, quote, if I lose you, I will lose everything I believe to be true, even though I will never take my own life, because I promised you my life will be as if I am dead, Linda told dateline quote, I was stringing him along.

29:01 We were playing this game so he wouldn't kill himself over the holidays. It was a dirty, stupid game end quote. Emails between Linda and Tom show that she was planning on focusing on her marriage and breaking things off with Gil. On Monday, November twenty eighth, Linda and Tom talked about Linda breaking up with Gil over dinner that night, or at least explaining to him that she was struggling to make the decision. Linda wrote to Tom, quote, I told him we have to talk, so he has been begging and pleading for me not to leave him. She and Tom feared that Gil would harm himself after the breakup, and they decided to wait after the holidays. Some kind of. Confused what happened during this time, because I think Gil saw the writing on the wall. He knew that Linda was kind of getting tired of having the affair and wanted to break things off, but she was also still having relations with him, And it's just kind of I'm kind of confused as to what she actually was telling Gil compared to what she was telling her husband. Like if she was telling her husband one thing and Gil another.

30:04 That's kind of what it seems like. Then, you know Tom was dead, so maybe she did try to break up with them. So we don't really know what happened there. But Gil did spend Thanksgiving with the Colemans and their extended family, and he and Tom even talked about opening a business together. They were going to open an ice cream parlor together. Both Linda and Gil confirmed to police that the romance had ended after Tom's death, but police weren't so sure. Police shadowed Linda and Gil and kept close tabs on them. They monitored their phones and even put a GPS tracker on Gill's SUV, but they found no proof that they were lying and still seeing each other.

30:44 But we do know that their affair was continuing at least up until Town's death. Yes, I believe so interesting. We'll be back after a break. Two months after the autopsy, the toxicology report was ready. It showed a drug called medazolam in Tom's system. The autopsy called the amount of the drug very high, but in a person with no other health conditions, it would not be a lethal dose. The medical examiner determined Tom's cause of death to be acute medazolamb poisoning, but it really is unclear if that was the cause of his death.

31:28 Tom's sleep apnea could have played a role in his death. Medazolam slows down breathing significantly slower respiration coupled with sleep apnea could be a deadly combination. Medazolam, sold under the brand name Versid, is a benzodiazepine medication used for anesthesia, premedication before surgical anesthesia, and procedural sedation, as well as treating severe agitation. It is not a street drug and only available to licensed medical practitioners. It induces sleepiness, decreases anxiety, and can cause anterograde amnesia in high doses, which means the inability to form new memories after the event. It's commonly used in sedation, dentistry d dentistry. Interesting it has a bitter taste, so investigators thought that if Tom had been poisoned, someone may have put the poison in a beverage, specifically coffee, and Tom's stomach was empty except for coffee. Suddenly, investigators realized that they may have a murder on their hands.

32:33 Suspicion quickly fell on Linda. She worked in a hospital and had access to Madazzle Lamb. However, investigators went to her office and all the Medazzle Lamb was accounted for, although the Coleman home was never searched. After Linda passed a polygraph test, she was eliminated from suspicion. The investigation narrowed in on another suspect, Gil Nunez. They brought him in for questioning. He was at the police station for seven hours. He denied any involvement, but had no alibi. He never asked for an attorney during the long interrogation. He was calm and forthcoming. During the interview, We played a clip from that interview earlier, and he was super calm and forthcoming. He was so madter of fact about everything. Yeah, oh yeah, I'm having an affair with Linda and blah blah blah.

33:22 Yeah, very strange. He told the police that he and Linda had been intimate a few weeks before Tom's death. Interestingly, Gil also told the investigator that Tom suffered from severe sleep apnea, which they might not have known that otherwise. Investigators believed that Gil felt a breakup coming with Linda. He sensed that Linda was planning to end their nearly year long affair to save her marriage. Gil was so obsessed with Linda that he couldn't stand the thought of losing her, so he lured Tom to the gym Early on the morning of November twenty eighth, twenty eleven. Gil got into Tom's car and handed him a coffee laced with Madad's lamb. After Tom became drowsy, Gil reclined his seat.

34:04 The drug, coupled with Tom's sleep apnea, was enough to slow his respiration and eventually stop his breathing altogether. However, none of Gill's DNA was found in the car, while Linda, Tom and their son Ryan's DNA was found, so. It is kind of surprising that none of Gill's fingerprints or DNA or hair or anything was found in the car. First, I thought, well, maybe he wiped down the car, but there are other fingerprints in the car. Yeah, but maybe it was November so he could have been wearing gloves right and a hat. True. After the intense eight hour long interrogation, the next day, Gil hired an attorney. The attorney contacted the police and notified them that Gil would no longer be cooperating. While Gil was at the police station, a search warrant was carried out at his office. Two vials of medas LAMB were found in Gill's office. The vials were part of an emergency kit in case a patient needed medical intervention that the office was required to keep on hand. However, the vials were sealed and there were no fingerprints on.

35:09 Them, and Gil claimed not to know what medazolam was when he was interrogated by the police. Interesting, and I mean it kind of is. So this is an emergency kit that I think dentists are required to keep, Like if you have a medical emergency while you're in the chair, right, you know, they have this kit. They probably don't have to pull it out hardly. Ever, Yeah, you know, so it's possible he didn't know what was in the kit. I suppose. So, I mean, it seemed like he would still know as a dentist, what you know, what type of medications were available to him. But I suppose it's possible. And he said that he didn't practice aidation dentistry either. Okay. The DA did not think that there was enough information to charge Gil with Tom's death. Investigators hoped that forensic testing of Tom's car might reveal some new evidence.

35:56 They found mail DNA not belonging to Tom on belt Buckle. The DNA didn't belong to Gill or any of the first responders either. This is where the investigation gets tricky. The da knew that they couldn't press charges with this new information, so they tried to find someone close to Gil that may have been an accomplice. Investigators stealthily collected items such as a cigarette butt or sodacan from people close to Gil to check their DNA, but still they found no match. As Tom's children, parents, and other family members found out about the affair between Linda and Gil, they cut ties with Linda. Investigators realized that some samples weren't saved from Tom's autopsy.

36:39 Contents from his stomach had been thrown out. Therefore, the extent to which the medazolam had been metabolized could not be determined, which would be helpful in establish establishing a timeline. It's possible Tom had been self medicating to sleep better, and maybe Gil had given him the drug. Stiators received a court order to exhume Tom's body. The pathologists used a special light to search for needle pricks indicating an injection site for the medazolamb. I don't believe they found any injection sites after the first exhumation, but Tom's body was exhumed a second time. Among the additional test was an examination into Tom's jaw muscles to see if there was a higher concentration of the drug there, the thought being that if Gil had injected Tom, he would have done it in the facial muscles because he was familiar with them as a dentist. The tests did find the concentration of madazolamb higher in the facial muscles, but not conclusively so. However, the exhumation and additional testing did pay off.

37:47 Tom's death was ruled to be a homicide due to poisoning, specifically medazelam poisoning, after the high concentrations of madazlamb were found in Tom's stomach contents. The whole madazzle lamb issue is tricky because the dose wasn't a deadly dose. Was it was a therapeutic dose. But in Tom, they think that it could have caused his death because it slowed his breathing coupled with the sleep apnea, but in someone without sleep apnea it would not have caused a death. Yeah, So if you were trying to kill someone with madazzlam and you knew the dosage is, you would probably give. Them, probably give them more. Yeah.

38:27 Yeah, it's kind of a stretch, I think. Yeah. There still wasn't enough evidence to link Gil to Tom's death, and there were no other suspects. Gil continued practicing dentistry and Linda and her children can continue to grieve Tom. In twenty fourteen, or three years after Tom's death, Oh Wow, Gil began dating on match dot com. He fell in love and got married in the Dominican Republic to a woman, a real estate agent and singer named Jamil Sadly. In March twenty thirteen, Tom's son from his first marriage, Bradley Edward, just eighteen, wasn't able to heal after his father's death, and he took his own life. Shortly after the first anniversary of Tom's death. He told his family, Yeah, part is so sad. He told his family he wanted to wake up and be with his father. I know these situations are so hard because it's hard enough to lose one family member, but then when you lose a second family member, it's just so sad. He was so young, the DA and the investigators were determined not to let Tom's case go cold. They met with the state crime Lab to review evidence and brainstorm. Someone suggested checking out autopsies done the same day that Tom's autopsy was done, suggesting that maybe the unidentified DNA from Tom's belt may have come from a different autopsy performed on the same day in the same table. And they were right. The lab hadn't been properly sterilized between autopsies, and the un

40:00 DNA had nothing to do with Tom's case. Ah, that is so crazy that someone even thought to try that. It just seems like a complete shot in the dark. And it just like like, you know, cleaning that lab is right. She shows you how important it is, like cross contamination really wow, mess things up With the unknown DNA identified, the DA finally felt they had enough to make a case. GILBERTU. Nunez was arrested for the second degree murder of Tom Coleman almost four years after his death in October twenty fifteen. He spent one month in jail before he was released after he posted one million dollars in bail. His new wife stood by his side through all of his legal troubles believing he was innocent.

40:44 Gil's trial began in May twenty sixteen. Fifty witnesses were called over the three week trial. Gil was represented by two prominent New York attorneys who had previously defended former mob boss John Gottie. Each day after the trial ended, Gil her reed to his office to see patients while he was still practicing. During the money Oh okay, yeah, that makes sense, the Coleman family remained divided. Tom's family members hadn't forgiven Linda for her affair with Gil and didn't sit with her at the trial. Tom's parents were infuriated to learn that the affair between Linda and Gil had gone on for eleven months. Gil's wife and family, and even some loyal patients attended his trial. The courtroom was packed.

41:28 Would you go to your deist murder? No? I don't think I would. His patients really really love him. I think he was a very good dentist. During the trial, Gill's lies were exposed. Linda testified that Gil had told her that he had worked for the CIA. He had a badge to prove it. He claimed his work sometimes required him to put tracking devices in people's mouths, Investigators later found the fake ID mock up on Gill's computer and a forged CIA letterhead. He was charged with felony forgery charges. Investigators also found a search for madazzlam on his computer. Ooh, that's pretty that's pretty damning.

42:08 Those pesky those searches, pesky Google searches. It's every time. Gill's defense argued that there was only one Wikipedia search about the drug, and it could have been performed by anyone at the office. I don't want to be a Gill apologist, but if you are going to research how much medaslam it takes to kill someone, you're not probably going to go to Wikipedia. True, But just the fact that you're searching for madazlam and then this guy who you're close to dies of madaslam poisoning shortly after that seems a little damning to me. Yeah, Gil had gone as far as attempting to hire a former police officer to harass Tom.

42:49 So Gil is supposed to be Tom's best friend, but he really was very underhanded and did a lot of just nasty things. Well, yeah, for sure, charting with sleeping with his wife, right. The judge didn't allow Gill's initial interview with the police into the trial because he had never been read his Miranda rights. Wow. Interesting. So I'm still learning every time we do a case. I am still learning as you are. And some things that seem so straightforward. I think I didn't really understand Miranda rights because I've seen too many TV shows where when you're arrested, you're read you're Miranda rights. But you know, Miranda rights need to be read at the beginning of a police interrogation. And if they're not read at the beginning of the police interrogation, anything that is said in the police they can't you can't be used against you in a court of law. Yeah, or anything that you say, or any evidence that you might say, like oh, the green car was involved in the hold up at the bank.

43:54 Well if you say that without Miranda rights, that can't even be evidence used against you. Yeah. So I know that's what the words say. But then yeah, the reality of it is that it's. Very very important. Yeah. During the interview, Gil denied keeping medazolam at his dental practice and feigned not knowing what it was. So that was part of the Miranda rights issue that they had talked about them Medazzlamb during the police interview, and they couldn't bring it up at the trial. Yeah. Interesting. The medical examiner who conducted Tom's autopsy testified he said, quote, I didn't have a good cause of death for mister Coleman unquote. He also testified that it was possible that Tom could have been self medicating medazolam.

44:38 In the weeks before his death, it was discovered that Tom was buying testosterone online and having it shipped to a secret po box. Why does someone buy testosterone? I don't know. Is it for like working out or bulking up? I really it was working out. I think he had lost some weight prior to his death. Yeah. Tom was a physical therapist, and I believe in some states physical therapists can write prescriptions. Okay, So it's possible he could have gotten me dazzle lamb on his own, okay. Or even if he couldn't have, maybe he worked in a medical facility that had prescription drugs on hand, possibly, though I know that stuff was pretty tightly controlled. Yeah. No, I think that the physical therapist office that he worked at probably didn't have at hand.

45:22 Yeah, because I. Don't believe it was part of it. He worked for Optum Health, so I don't think it was in a hospital. Okay, interesting though that he had a secret po box, so Tom had some secrets of his own. It seems yeah, possibly. I think Tom was under a great deal of stress. Yeah, it seemed like a very stressed out guy. Yeah, sounds like it. A forensic video analyst sorted through traffic and surveillance camera footage near the Planet Fitness and he was able to piece together footage of the white suv that parked next to Tom Coleman on the morning of his death that Planet Fitness. Sifting through an FBI database of over eighteen vehicles, the expert believed the closest match was a twenty ten Nissan Pathfinder. And who drove a twenty ten Nissan Pathfinder? I think I can guess Gilberto Nunez correct. There is a science called headlight spread pattern analysis that studies the unique beam of headlights. Who knew, I did not know. Experts believe that vehicles have unique headlight patterns. The white suv from the Planet Fitness video had a headlight defect that cast a distinctly shaped, bright white shadow onto the roadway before it Police seized Gill's pathfinder and tested the headlights. They also emitted the odd shaped light. Investigators were confident that Gill's vehicle was the same one from the video. It was their best evidence against Gil.

46:48 So this is kind of crazy to me because I think this is one of those avenues of science that could be called junk science. Yes, and you know this expert witness. It's a little dubious in my opinion. And for a while I did work at a Chrysler factory where I was very young, and one of the tests we did was a headlight test, and you would think, of one Nissan pathfinder could have this defect, maybe another one could, right, I don't know. Yeah, I would. I would think this it does sound a little like junk science, although it does. You know, if there is a unique headlight pattern, I could see that. Okay, there wouldn't be a big chance that, you know, many other vehicles would have the same thing. But seems like a little bit of a stretch.

47:35 It's not a slam dunk for me. No me neither. However, there was no surveillance video of Gil leaving or arriving at his home in the early morning hours of November twenty ninth, further connecting him to the crime scene. Moreover, Gill's vehicle had decals and emergency lights because he was a volunteer firefighter, neither of which could be discerned from the surveillance videos. The expert said the resolution was too poor, not necessarily that they weren't there. Additionally, making Gill look rather guilty was that he had sold his niece on Pathfinder in the weeks after Tom's death, but investigators were able to track it down. They confirmed that Gill's Pathfinder did have the headlight aberration. The defense argued that Gil loved Tom and considered him his best friend.

48:23 Gil was a gentleman with no history of violence. There was no DNA or forensic evidence linking Gill to Tom's murder. The searches on the computer could have been done by anyone at the office. They claimed that Tom could have had a sexual encounter in his vehicle, explaining why his pants and shirt were undone. They pointed to an email on Tom's phone from b naughty dot com, but it was never opened. Or did Gill stage the crime scene to make it look like a hookup gone wrong. The detectives who worked the case said, quote. If their theory is going to be that he met a lady from b naughty dot com that drove a white suv and had access to Madazzle Lamb at five point thirty in the morning at Planet Fitness, they ought to start playing the lotto on that one. If that's the case on quote, that's a good point. That would be quite quite the coincidence.

49:14 Right, Like, who, I don't think many women would you know, try to drug a man that she was meeting in, right, Yeah, Like what would the intent be? He wasn't his wallet was still there, his phone was still there. Yeah. But you know, the defense they're trying to cast any doubt they can, right. The defense also questioned the autopsy report. The amount of medazzle Lamb in Tom's body was unknown, but didn't appear to be a lethal dose, and although the drug was found in Gill's office, the vials were unopened and free of Gill's fingerprints, but there could have been other vials that were open. Well, that is a good point. I was gonna mention that at the end, but I'll just say it now that this kit was he got a new kit every year, and could he have taken the drug, but that that would have been way premeditated. Too true, But he could have been stockpiling the vials of medaslamb. But I read in a New York article that that would have taken like five years for him to accumulate that amount of medaslamb.

50:16 Oh. Really, had he taken it from the emergency kid interesting and some kind of surprising to me. And if he had ordered it for some other reason, they I'm guessing that type of thing gets tracked pretty closely, so I'm sure they think, yeah, interesting. I think in general it's it's a safe drug. It's just used for anesthesia purposes. Right. The defense called a medical expert who said that Tom's cause of death was likely due to an enlarged heart due to heart disease. They said that his heart was quote ready to burst. After doing our podcast for two years, isn't one of your big takeaways that you could find an expert to say just about anything?

50:57 Yes? Absolutely, For just. Six hours of deliberation, the jury returned the verdict. What is your opinion on a short amount of deliberation time? A short amount? Yeah, because six hours is pretty darn short. That's really short for three weeks of trial. Yes, it is. Do you think it's usually a good sign for the defendant or a bad sign? I would think that would be a bad sign for the defendant. Yeah, but it could really be either. I guess what do you think the verdict was? I think guilty, but I'm hesitating a little bit because I can definitely see that there could be some reasonable doubt here. Not guilty of second degree murder. However, Gil was found guilty of two charges of forgery in regards to the CIA documents that he created, with a maximum sentence of seven years. Tom's family was distraught. They were very upset about this. Linda was outraged that Gil hadn't been convicted of Tom's murder. She shouted expletives at Gil after the verdict read psychotic, sociopathic, lying, zack of shit. She yelled as her friends escorted her out of the courtroom. Forty eight hours talked to TU jurors that said they thought the prosecution didn't prove their case. There wasn't enough evidence.

52:15 They said. Most believed Tom had died of natural causes. Dateline talked to TU jurors who came up with their own theory of how Tom died. From the very beginning, I believed that Nunez was there at the scene but as a friend to help Coleman get some rest that he hadn't been getting, and that he left and everything was fine, and he was as much surprised with Tom's death as anybody else. Was. What she is saying there is she thought Gil was being a good friend and giving Tom the medazlam to help him sleep better.

52:56 Yeah, I guess I can. I guess I could see that that would be a possibility. Yeah, and then Gil would lie about it because. He you know, well, if you didn't know all the other things about Samantha and you know, giving Linda a case of money and posing to her and asking her to leave her, you know, yeah. All those things make Gil seem much more suspicious. But if you didn't know those things, yeah, I could see. After the trial was over, Gil was hit with an eight count indictment unrelated to Tom Coleman's death. The charges included five counts of falsifying business records in the first degree, third degree grand larceny, and third degree insurance fraught. Each of the eight counts carried a sentence of one to three years. The charges stem from an insurance claim Gill made on a property he owned near his dental practice that burned down. The insurance company didn't dispute the fire, but claimed that Gil had inflated the property's value by five percent, or eight thousand dollars. Gil was charged with two counts of second degree perjury, first degree offering a false instrument for filing, and first degree making an apparently sworn false statement for failing to disclose his dishonorable discharge from the US Marine Corps on a gun permit application.

54:15 Wow. Gil had gone a well from the Marines after basic training from August nineteen eighty seven to July nineteen ninety so after basic training he just split didn't go back. According to the Times Harald Record, Gil checked no to the question of whether he had ever been quote terminated, discharged from any employment or the armed fought forces for cause end quote when he applied for his gun permit. So I'm not defending Gil at all here, but these seem like they're like really going out, They're trying to find any reason to go after him. Well, I mean, this happens a lot, right If you get off on a crime, you know, the da. Is like, we know, we know he did it. So no, he's guilty. So we're going to get him on all these little right, I mean the gun, I mean it's kind of it is Nutsah, these are pretty minor offensive that probably I Uri committed them, they'd probably be thrown out.

55:07 Well again, the five percent, you inflate your property's value by five percent, that seems so so minor. Yes. Gil was found guilty on all of these charges. During sentencing, the prosecutor fought hard for the maximum of twenty five years, while the defense argued for leniency based on Gill's lack of criminal record and standing in the community. Gil produced one hundred and thirty character reference letters of support. Judge Donald Williams told Gil quote, tragically, you believe that society's rules do not apply to you. I see no chance of rehabilitation. Gil was sentenced to two years four months to seven years. Clearly the prosecutor had an ax to grind after losing the murder case against Gil. He only served nineteen months out of the potential seven year sentence. However, he served at altona correctional facility, a medium security prison.

55:59 Gil at each fifty one was released from prison on September tenth, twenty eighteen, his dental license was revoked. I think he was really upset about that because he really did love practicing dentistry. He was on probation until October twenty twenty three. As far as I know, he has had no further problems with the law. As part of his release, he was forbidden to have any communication with Linda Coleman. In twenty sixteen, while Gill was out on bail. After serving forty one days in jail, he returned to his practice and his longtime patient, acclaimed writer James Lasden broke a tooth, and out of desperation, he went to Gill for emergency treatment. He and, to be clear, like he loved Gil, but after his whole situ legal trouble, he was kind of like, yeah, I probably should find another dentist. The writer walked into a nearly empty and depressing practice. Gil's loyal office manager assured him that he was innocent of any wrongdoing. Gil told him that Tom's death had ruined his life. With a million dollars in legal fees and a ruined reputation, James felt inspired to write a piece for New Yorker magazine titled My Dentist's Murder Trial. It's a very good article, and he is adapting the piece into a docu series starring Pedro Pascal and David Harber. It was announced in July twenty twenty two.

57:24 I think they're still making it. I haven't seen any updates on it. Things move slowly in Hollywood, but that's interesting. Yeah, Well, the rest in peace, Tom Coleman and Brad Coleman. Here's Gillian Coleman remembering her dad. My dad was a hard working family man. He was an amazing man that was unfortunately never shown in the trial or anything like that. He would call at least once a week and he would always be you know, how did you do on that test? Or what he got coming up this weekend, or he would ask you about Brad's football games and stuff. He was very in the know about our lives and he would always give great advice. Every winter we would go snow tubing and it was just so that was so much fun.

58:15 All the time. He would tucker us out and we'd get home and just watch movies and Dad would always lay on the floor and eventually halfway through the movie he'd get up and just kind of silently starts scooping ice cream and canting them out, not even say anything. That's so sad. It's very sad. It's so hard to lose your dad. So Linda remains estrange from Tom's family. Chillian, who we just heard speak, said she forgives her but doesn't want a relationship with her. Linda told Dateline that she feels guilt every minute of every day for what happened to Tom and her family. She said she understands why they hate her, and she has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Gill, which I was not able to find any information about. Gil also led on a marriage license application, not divulging his first marriage, and as far as I know, he's on his third marriage.

59:07 Right. So, do you think that Gil had a strong enough motive to kill Tom? Tom was okay with the affair, and the whole amount of Medazzleam in Tom's body was a therapeutic dose, not an obvious overdose. Yeah, if Gil was really trying to kill Tom, I mean, he would have given him much more. That is the thing I'm struggling with a little bit. I think he did have a motive because if he felt like Linda was going to dump him, that the writing was on the wall, that she was going to get back, you know, and work on her marriage and you know, end things with Gil. So I think he did have a motive from that perspective, But the the dosage of the drug I struggle with a little bit. But I don't know. I guess, in my heart of hearts, I feel like he did have a motive, and he did.

59:51 He clearly was the only one that had a motive, right. And he's the only one with access to the madazzle am. Well not, I mean Linda did too because she worked in a hospital. Yeah, but yeah, I don't really see that, right. Do you think that Tom and Gil could have been involved romantically? I mean, it's certainly possible that the whole thing just seems very strange that Tom seemed to be okay and was still hanging out with Gil, even knowing that Gil was sleeping with his wife. I just I can't imagine that. So who knows, you know, possibly something else was going on there. I think probably not, but it was it is very strange that I think Tom was just I think it was a really nice guy. And he just didn't want to break up his family and wanted Linda to be happy and to figure things out.

1:00:38 Yeah, I guess, I just it's so hard to imagine, but maybe. So what is your opinion after researching this case? Do you think that Gil is responsible for Tom's death? You know, I hate to say it, but I am not sure. Yeah, I think that he is the only one that had a motive. But also Tom did have some health issues, so could it have been a hard tech. All of Gil's other shady behavior makes me believe that he definitely had something to do with Tom's death. Yes, I agree, because he said that Tom was his best friend, but he also was willing to propose to Linda, and I'm sure that he didn't tell Tom that. Yeah. Yeah, and the whole thing with like the the text messages from this Samantha person that he made up of. Yeah, it tells me he's a little off in the head.

1:01:24 And yeah, very strange. Well, I did watch there was a forty eight hours episode and a dateline and they were both really good. We'll link them to the show notes, and all of our other sources that I used are also in our show notes. Well, we'll put a link to the chips if you want to buy the chips. Yes, of course. Before we go, I was going to do a quick quiz with you. Well, we know each other, so if you don't want to hear anything more about us or just stop the case here, Thanks for this sing We'll talk to you next time. Okay, where did first one's first couple? Are you easy?

1:02:06 I'm nervous about this quiz. Well, I was going to have your answer before, but I figured we would just do it live. Okay, where did you first meet? That one's easy? In church? Kevin and Cindy's Yes. Where was your first date? Which depends how you Yeah, it. Really depends on how we find date. I mean I'm going to say it was going to see Forrest Gump in the movie theater. Okay, Well, I just said when you came to my apartment when I lived, like you lived in Michigan, I lived in Illinois. You came to see me. I just feel like that was a whole weekend, which in retrospect is so weird. I know, I was just like, oh, sure, come stay the weekend at my studio apartment. That I hardly know.

1:02:46 Yeah, where was your first kiss? Well, I think it was at the Well, we disagree on this one. We had a we talked about this and we. Had agree, yes, because I first kiss was. I know where it was too. It was at the club that we were like after the second wedding reception. You are wrong. I don't think I'm wrong. But we did not. Kiss that night. We did not sure that we did. Okay, well, now we didn't. We're just like having a conversation without our listeners. Well, we met at a wedding. And then we basically talked about this on Patreon episode. But we met at our friend's wedding. Really, they had a second wedding.

1:03:27 It was Michigan. Yeah, and your first wedding was in Illinois. Yes, and I came to Michigan. We met at the first wedding. We didn't really hooked up with other people. That's what you do when you're in your twenties and you're at a wedding, right, So, yeah, we had came to the second reception and then that's when you found me irresistible. Well, but not until right before I left to go back to Illinois. Okay, I remember it differently, But we did not kiss that night because I remember, I was, Okay, all right, we'll we're get up. I have to find some you've forgotten our first kiss. But okay, what is our favorite food? It's our favorite food? What married couples don't have to have the same favorite food?

1:04:11 Well, what I mean? What is your favorite food? I put fried chicken? As is your favorite food? Oh? Your favorite food? Luck? I know, I don't really know. I really don't. Don't know me at all. I didn't. I don't know you just like you like snacks. Like I know, I am more of us like board, I like, yeah, like chips and dep I'm with or chips and salsa. Yeah, I'm kind of a snack. I really am a snack. Yeah. Person who said I love you first? Oh gosh, I don't know. I'm gonna say I did you? Did? You don't remember? I don't. I actually remember vividly. But we're not going to go into that.

1:04:51 Okay. What is your partner's favorite color? Green? Yellow? Right? What is his or her favorite movie? Oh it's John Cusack, the one, the. One, Uh when I was like an early, when I was younger, but I think it's not anymore. No, there's another. Yeah, I have yours is Delicatessen, which I don't know if you would say that anybody you used to say that, I love that movie. What was your favorite movie? Then I would probably say Brazil Terry Gill. Okay, okay, what is yours? Then I would say The Ice Worm? Oh, okay, I really love that movie.

1:05:31 You've never seen The Ice Worm. It's it's quirky, but I think it's really an interesting movie. What is your hobby? I think we have the same hobby, right, true crime podcast podcasting? Yes? What is your favorite sports team? This was a hard one for me to answer. Yours is the Chicago Cubs, Yes. And yours is the Detroit Tigers. I think you don't even know, right. Yeah, you could say the Tigers. You could say the Lions, you could say Michigan. I think you really I think the Tigers Tigers because it's nostalgia. Yeah, definitely sentimental. I grew up obsessed with the Tigers. So yeah, what is your partner's favorite ice cream flavor?

1:06:13 I said peanut butter for you, I mean. Not really, but for you, I think it's that brown butter. What is it called? Jennies like brown? Yeah? I like, uh yeah, or butter pecan or I kind of like things that have yeah, like that, what's yours if it's not peanut butter? Well, I just like, I don't know, I don't really have a favorite. I guess I just like something with a lot of like chunks and chocolate. I like ice cream with peanut butter in it, like chocolate and peanut butter. Well, I hope that wasn't too boring for everyone. I'm glad I didn't get them all wrong. Well, it's kind of our anniversary, so I don't know. Well, we would love to hear your favorite ice cream flavor listener, we would well, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. We areciate you so much. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com, and please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com. Slash Lovemrykill one tier five dollars a month, add free access and a monthly bonus episode until next time. Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.