Linda DeSilva and Robert Edelman

0:00 Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing we've learned and over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife. And some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina. We meet again. How have you been. It's been a while. It's been a long time. I've been pretty good. Good. Good to see you again. We haven't talked since last time we recorded. We would have a much better podcast probably if that was the case. But we see each other most days.

0:43 But you were out of town last week. I was first time in a long time. And did you feel did you have a good week at home? I had such a good week. I feel bad saying that. But organized the whole house? You really the first time I've been alone, I think since you know, the kids are gone and you were. Gone, I just went crazy. I didn't go crazy. What do you mean you organized everything? I came home and there's like piles of things here and there, and you had like donation piles, and you were you were obviously very busy. I really like organizing. And you know, even if your house is organized at least once a year you know, you need to go through and reorganize everything, and there's always some donations. I donated a lot of my clothes, which felt pretty good.

1:31 You donated a lot of mine, which I did it. That is not true. I did take two pair of shoes. Did you look in the bags? You just look in the bags. Now you have a which has a pile of I'm not exaggerating. There's probably sixty shirts in there, like the T shirts like that. You they're like workout shirts, you know, painting shirts are going to bed shirts, and I mean they needed to be sorted through. So I did that, and I think but there is one pair of shoes that you had that I remember when you bought them. We fought about them because they were so ugly. They were like these sandals. Do you know what? You probably don't know what I'm talking about. I don't, but this is the second time we've talked about arguing about a pair of shoes. That I bought, right well, I mean, no offense, but these were really bad, like they were probably in style like twelve years ago, and they were just kind of like I don't know, I think they're meant to be like hiking sandals. They're just really ugly.

2:22 If they were in style twelve years ago, they're probably about to come in style again. I mean, I would you whatever you wore them. I had to walk like two feet behind you because I was embarrassed to be seen with you. Wow, and now they're gone. I think so. Well, you said you took the donations for me, So. I don't know where you I just don't I trust you. Yeah, but it was a good week. I mean, I did miss you by the end of the week. But how was your week? It was a pretty good week. I was in Orlando for work for a trade show. Didn't have a lot of fun, but it was a good week for work. I didn't see any alligators. I was a little disappointed. Well, that would have been weird because you were inside. Well no, but I was trying, you know, in the car on the way from the airport and at the hotel I was at. I was really hoping to see an alligator or two, but I didn't.

3:08 I'm not sure what to say about that. But maybe next time, honey, maybe next time you'll see an alligator or a crocodile. Would you know the difference? Well, I don't think they have crocodiles in Florida, so I would only know the difference by the location that I'm at. Oh, I'm actually terrified of alligators, but I'm also kind of fascinated by them. I have never been scared until we went to Hilton Had a few years ago. Oh, they were everywhere, were everywhere, and they were like we were biking, and I'm not a good biker, and that was really scary when they were. You know, we could see them. You'd be on the you'd be on the bike trail and there would be like a hill right next to the bike trail leading down to the water, and alligators would basically be waiting there for you to fall off the way. For me especially, I think, yeah, yeah, well I have a snack for you. And you owe our dear friend and listener, Teresa an apologies.

3:57 I've been making so many live on air apologies, but I truly do. Oh Teresa another apology. Yeah, I am so sorry, Teresa. Yeah sorry. She was kind enough to send us some snacks. We had one of them on an episode a couple of weeks ago. Some short bread cookies that were delicious. And there was another snack and I missed it. It was in my cupboard, and we told her it didn't arrive and it did run well. I told her because you told so we felt really bad about that. So we're so sorry, Teresa. She probably was really stressed out about it and felt bad about it, and we had it all along. I know, I feel terrible. Yeah, well, let's try the peanut brittle popcorn that's been hanging out in your cupboard for a couple of weeks.

4:40 It's from a company called Caine River. You're a big peanut riddle lover, so I bet you really liked this popcorn. I thought it was amazing. That was the mash up between peanut brittle and popcorn that I never knew I needed, And it turns out I really did. It was really good. What did you think? I thought it was very good. Thanks again, Teresa for sending those in. My apologies for misplacing it. If I didn't know better, I would say that you were trying to hide that so you could eat it all over. It would be gone by now if that was the case, but it may disappear again. Well, today I'm going to tell you the story of Linda da Silva and Robert Edelman we're going to travel to nineteen eighties Dallas, Texas?

5:26 Are we going to find out who shot JR? Robert Edelman is a little bit like JR. Ewing for sure. Some people might say he's worse than JR. Ewing. Linda walked through the safe house, feeling unmoored, adrift, and the unfamiliar surroundings. The sudden jangling of the telephone made her jump. She'd been warned in no uncertain terms never to answer unless the call followed the code. Three rings, a thirty second pause, then more ringing. She froze, counting under her breath one two, three, four, pause, then more ringing. That wasn't the code. Panic rose from her gut and spread through her body. Did Ike forget? Did she? Or worse, did someone else know the code? Was someone watching her from the dense woods. Linda wouldn't put anything past her husband of sixteen years, Robert. He was powerful, well connected, and furious that she'd filed for divorce, furious enough to have hired someone to kill her. The FBI had come to her a week earlier and set her up in this safe house. Linda stared at the phone as he began to ring again. Her heart pounding louder than the sound itself, A scream forming deep in her throat.

6:39 Sounds like he's got the makings of a really scary movie. Yeah. Mary. Linda de Silva was born in July nineteen forty five to John and Virginia de Silva in the small town of Duncan, Oklahoma. The eldest of two daughters, Linda grew up alongside her younger sister, Miriam, in a close knit Fundamentalist Baptist household of modest means. Linda was stunning with shiny honey colored hair, hazel eyes, a bright smile, and a fun, sunny disposition. She was talented too. From a young age, her mother had immersed her and Miriam in voice, piano and dance lessons. Linda blossomed while attending Oklahoma University. She was the star of the music department, always landing the lead role in musicals like Stop the World, I Want to Get Off the Show and specifically Linda was such a hit that they were asked to join a USO tour in Germany that fall. A friend said, Linda lives her life as the lead in a different musical every day. That's what's fun about Linda. What is tough is figuring out which character she is playing today. People were sure that some day they'd see her name in the bright lights of Broadway. But in June nineteen sixty seven, while working in the summer theater program, Linda met Robert Edelman, and the course of her life changed forever. He wasn't a musician, an actor, or one of the fun loving, care free types Linda usually dated. Robert was more serious, focused on his future. Despite that, he wasn't known for his academic drive. In fact, he was a terrible student

8:12 by his fifth year of college. He was simply eager to graduate. To meet that goal, he enrolled in a stage lighting course for easy credits to put him a step towards finishing school and finally starting to make money, a goal that had defined him for as long as anyone could remember. Robert Mark Edelman came from a middle class Jewish family near Dallas. He was different from most guys at Oklahoma University. He had impeccable manners and style of dress, choosing kashmere sweaters and slacks over the jeans and sweatshirts worn by most college boys. He drove a sleek new white convertible, a gift from his parents. Robert had his eyes on success from the very start. He was a stark contrast to Linda's cheerful demeanor, brooding, dark, reclusive, enigmatic, aloof and sometimes.

9:01 Cold, sounds like a real fun guy. Linda was drawn to Robert because he was so different from the typical goofy college boys she dated. He had more depth and direction in life. When Robert told her, you are the only person in the entire world who cares about me. You are the only one I have. I never had anything of my own before, she took it to heart, but as the relationship deepened, Robert's need for control grew. Even while Linda was away on the USO tour, she made sure to be available for his frequent transatlantic phone calls to avoid his anger and relentless questioning. I know it's too much to read into a simple quote, but saying you're the only one I have. I never had anything of my own before, like he's talking about her as a possession.

9:46 Yes. Homesick and missing Robert, she happily accepted his marriage proposal over the phone. They married the next summer in June nineteen sixty eight and relocated to Dallas, where Robert worked in computer sales. Because of their different religions, they weighed not having children, fearing the backlash from their parents whichever faith they chose. While Robert worked for Honeywell, Linda got a job with Dallas Summer Musicals, bringing big city musicals to Texas. Linda was excited about her burgeoning career, but soon Robert was offered a transfer to New York selling industrial mainframe computers, and they moved to Manhattan. This gave Linda a shot at Broadway, where she hoped Virginia, Linda's mother, was still a staged mother at heart. She saw the move to New York as an opportunity for her beautiful, talented daughter to star on the Broadway stage, where she belonged. She reached out to one of its biggest stars, Beverly Sills, and asked her how Linda could find a good voice teacher. She kindly offered up her own eighty year old Estelle Leebling. When Linda went to audition for Estelle, she immediately saw her talent and agreed to take her on as a student. Linda and Robert were surprised to find that all they could afford was a tiny, one bedroom apartment in Queen's They sparsely finished the place. Linda did her best to make it comfortable, but she missed home. The move marked a turning point in their young marriage. With no family nearby to witness what was happening behind closed doors, Robert's control tightened. What

11:18 began is subtle suggestions soon hardened into demands, and then into abuse. Despite the speed and convenience of New York City's vast public transportation system, Robert refused to spend time on the subway with people he considered the underclass. He insisted that Linda drive him to and from his job at Honeywell each day. It was a heavy burden for Linda, costing her hours and jangling her nerves in relentless city track. That would be so stressful every time I'm in New York, Like it's just driving there. I would not want to do it. I wouldn't either, as rush hour every day, so easy to take the subway. Everyone takes the subjectly. Soon the verbal abuse and control turned to violence. Linda couldn't afford to call home often, but Robert spoke daily with his mother from work Sinceing Glinda's extreme homesickness. In nineteen seventy, her parents planned a visit to New York City, Virginia, John, Linda's aunt, and even the family dog were coming for a visit. Linda was so excited to share the news with Robert, but he bristled at the thought. He lashed out at Linda and punched her in the face so hard he dislocated her job.

12:30 God, it's horrible. When he realized what he'd done and the pain Linda was in, Robert drove Linda to the hospital and begged for her forgiveness. He promised he'd never touch her again. The fast pace of New York was too stressful for them, He explained. They could move back to Texas and she could get her old job back with the theater company. As they pulled up to the emergency room, Robert pleaded with Linda to lie to the doctors and nurses at the hospital and tell them that she'd fallen and hit her jaw on the bathtub. Otherwise he could be arrested and they wouldn't have their fresh start. And they did return to Dallas. The nineteen seventies brought a wave of prosperity to Texas, oil gushed, millionaires were made overnight. The potential seemed endless. People flocked to Texas to take advantage of the thriving economy, and before long, housing couldn't keep up with the demand. After the Edelman's return to Texas, Linda rejoined Dallas Summer Musicals and Robert began building speck houses, and before long the money was pouring in. By nineteen seventy two, he had left his job at Honeywell to launch his own real estate development company, Good Earth Development. As his success grew, so did his ego.

13:39 Buyers and contractors found Robert arrogant and difficult to deal with, an overconfident blowhard who rubbed people the wrong way. He was a ruthless negotiator and less than fair with the contractors. He was rude and combative and never paid them on time. When Linda joined the business, the atmosphere shifted. Clients preferred working with her, drawn to her warmth and taste. To her surprise, Linda discovered she genuinely enjoyed the work, especially the interior design side of the business. This was a happy time in their marriage. They were partners in business and in life, both bringing different strengths to their relationship and the business. One night, as Robert pulled into the circular drive of his house driving his new Porsche, Snubby Ellis, a slight red haired cowboy in his late fifties, waited for him, impatiently taking SIPs from a flask of whiskey. Snubby, who sometimes did contract work for the Edelmans, approached Robert as he exited the car and demanded payment for an eleven thousand dollars roofing job. When Robert swore at him and told him to get lost, Snubby withdrew a pistol from his pocket and approached Edelman pay me now, he demanded, putting the gun under Robert's chin. My checkbook is inside.

14:51 Robert nervously stammered. The man left peacefully after he was paid. The next day, Robert purchased an oozy machine gun. Wow. Robert did not like to pay his bills, and he liked to screw people out of money when he could. I need to mention here that there were I think it's just Snubby Ellis and one other person, that these names are pseudonyms. There's not a lot of information about this case and so I could not find Snubby Ellis's real name, but I thought Snubby Ellis was a pretty. Good that's an awesome pseudo bill. It wasn't until ten years into their marriage that the Edelmans decided to have children. Linda had waited, hoping their relationship would improve, but it never did and time was running out for her to conceive.

15:33 In November nineteen seventy nine, their son, Stephen was born, followed two years later by their daughter Kathleen. Before Stephen's birth, Linda had quietly converted to Judaism. Robert told d magazine. She surprised me with it one day, and after that we went back to the rabbi together and were remarried in the synagogue. Four years in the faith was enough for Linda, however, she returned to the Baptist Church and brought her children with her a few years later, when a wealthy, well connected Jewish couple purchased a new home from Good Earth Development, Robert went ballistic when they asked for a few repairs. Every new home needs a few tweaks when the owners move in, but Robert's ego and frugality made him difficult to work with, and he took his time making the repairs. The couple spread word through their network of well off friends. Robert seethed over the matter and plotted against the couple, especially the wife. She was home alone often at night while her husband traveled for work. Robert began calling her late at night, breathing heavily into the phone. She knew it was Robert, but it was still very unsettling. Linda pleaded with Robert to stop harassing the poor woman, but he refused, determined to put her in her place. A couple of weeks later, he was still making the phone calls and was shocked one night when the police appeared at the door with a warrant for his arrest for making harassing phone calls.

16:53 He was released on bail within hours, and the woman, scared for her and her family's lives, dropped the charges. These stories are to paint that Robert was a bully. That's like such a red flag that behavior. It's really frightening. Dallas was swimming in money in the early nineteen eighties when oil prices surged and real estate was booming. The city became a playground for developers, bankers, and dreamers. Savings and loan associations were originally created to help ordinary Americans achieve the dream of home ownership, neighbors pulling their money to help one another buy houses with fixed strate mortgages, but by the early nineteen eighties that mission had shifted.

17:33 Deregulation in nineteen eighty and again in nineteen eighty two allowed savings and Loans to make riskier investments, which caused lenders to pay higher interest rates or be locked into predatory balloon payment loans. Instead of supporting the people who built them, savings and loans began chasing profits in more lucrative commercial real estate. So I am not at all comfortable talking about economics, but here we are. The rules changed in so and so did the ethics. What began is community lending turned into something closer to predatory finance profit over people. All I know is George Bailey would not have approved. No, he wouldn't. And it's really a sad state of affairs here because savings and loans were, you know, an institution for the people, right and then suddenly it shifted and you know, they were against the people. They're making you know, these predatory loans.

18:25 For a while, it was a gold rush. Glass towers shot up across Dallas, financed by easy credit and speculation. Local businessmen bought jets through lavish parties and invested in half finished developments that looked good only on paper. Banks and savings and loans competed to outland one another, creating a bubble built on optimism and over extension. But by the mid nineteen eighties the bubble burst. Oil prices crashed, commercial real estate collapsed, and thousands of bad loans came due. Dozens of Texas savings and loans, many based in Dallas, failed spectacularly. Regulators discovered massive fraud, insider deals and falsified records as some bankers tried to hide their losses or enriched themselves before everything fell apart. The fallout was enormous.

19:13 Texas became ground zero for the national savings and loan crisis, which ultimately cost US taxpayers more than one hundred and twenty billion dollars. In Dallas alone, the skyline stood as a monument to greed and ambition, half empty office buildings, failed developments, and bankrupt dreams. By the end of the decade, the city's once booming real estate market was littered with see through skyscrapers buildings so empty you could literally see through them. In nineteen seventy eight, Robert expanded his business to include commercial real estate. He built a one hundred thousand square foot ten story office building he named the Embassy. This building had the distinction of being one of the first buildings built in Dallas with no intention of ever being occupied. For over four years it stood empty. So many buildings had popped up overnight in Dallas during the real estate boom when borrowing money was cheap, that there was a vast surplus of inventory. Part of the problem with Edelman's Embassy building was with code violations, and just as he had with his residential business, he was loath to make repairs and was denied a certificate of occupancy.

20:21 A story in d magazine at the time quoted a builder who said that building didn't get a certificate of occupancy because of the asshole factor. It was ninety percent code problems and ten percent asshole problems. And by asshole problems, he meant Robert gotcha. Among the most affluent areas in the Dallas Fort Worth area is the Park Cities, made up of University Park and Highland Park, where the average home price today is around three million dollars. In nineteen eighty four, while business was still strong for the Edelmans, Robert decided to build an all brick, seventy three hundred square foot mansion on Carath Street. House was imposing, cold, and poorly designed by Robert.

21:03 Friends secretly called it the Amityville Horror. So I couldn't find any pictures of this house, but he mostly designed it. The one room that was described was the master bathroom, and I guess it was large. But in the middle of the bathroom there was a glass shower in the middle, right in the middle, and I'm not sure how they were positioned, but there were two toilets, like a his and hers toilet, and they were facing each other. That's sweet, it is, really I know. I wish that we had that at our house. I wish I could see you when you're. Let's move on from that. Linda often sought refuge from Robert on the unfinished third floor of the mansion, where she had made a sitting room for herself with her wicker furniture that Robert called taki.

21:49 So this third floor that she would hang out on like it was very unfinished, like there were you know, like rafters and like there was a floor, but it wasn't flooring. Is just the beams and things like that. Yeah, it's kind of weird that that was where she chose to hang out. Yeah. Linda decorated the children's spaces to be cozy and comfortable, but Robert insisted that the area is meant for guests be lavishly decorated. But soon Robert's business began to collapse, like so many others in Dallas at the time, and his loans fell into default. His net worth, once more than six million dollars, plummeted to around seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars. We'll be back after a break.

22:38 Robert's hedonistic lifestyle had left him obese, his appearance increasingly coarse and almost beast like. The Times. Record News likened him to Joba the Hut. Wow. Ouch, Robert is repugnant. I've seen pictures of him, and I don't think he was as gross as everyone has. Described, not quite as gross as job of the Hut. No, I don't want to sound like I'm defending him, but money and status gave him access to excess fine dining expensive wine, luxury cars, and women. What began as indulgence turned into entitlement. He surrounded himself with people who admired his wealth rather than his character, and over time his appetites grew bolder, while his sense of restraint eroded.

23:22 The thrill of acquisition of things, experiences, control, and winning the next big deal became his driving force. His eyes bulged and his lips curled into a snarl as he hurled relentless insults at Linda, clad only in his underwear with folds of fat spilling over the waistband. Oh, thank you so much for leaving that picture in my head. Slowly, her confidence began to erode. He attacked her looks, even though she was lovely. He attacked her style, intelligence, sexual performance, and parenting skills, never letting up for a moment. The only solace Linda found was in her children. Business troubles only heightened his volatility in dark moods. In one furious outburst, he throttled Linda's neck until she lost consciousness.

24:09 For days afterward, she struggled to swallow, with deep purple bruises circling her throat as a painful reminder of the attack. Friend's family and neighbors saw the abuse and urged her to leave. Once her neck began to heal from the strangulation attempt, Linda bought three one way plane tickets and took the children to Oklahoma. She didn't tell Robert until she was there safely with her family that she wasn't coming back to Dallas. She wanted a divorce, but Linda was stunned when she heard Robert sobbing on the other end of the phone. His bravado dissolved. Robert's voice became almost childlike as he begged her to come home and promised to change. She stood her ground and told him that she would return to Dallas only if he moved out of the house. In the fall of nineteen eighty five, after attending marriage counseling, Linda decided to end her sixteen year marriage, describing her husband in court records as cruel, harsh, and tyrannical. When Robert was served with the divorce papers, he said, I will never give you a divorce. I will see you dead. First people in Linda's family didn't get divorced, so this was a big step for her.

25:20 Divorce was just not something that you thought about. He had me convinced it was my fault, so I accepted all of the responsibility for it. I would try new approaches, but he would just get angrier and angrier. The violence just got worse and worse. Linda said she was too scared to leave. At the time, Stephen was seven and Kathleen five. For years, the children had witnessed their parents' tumultuous relationship. The judge proposed a house swopping arrangement, in which the children would remain in the family home while the parents rotated in and out every ten days. It was a good idea in theory, but in practice, the children much preferred living with their mother and were devastated each time the swap cycled back to Robert. Despite the lock on her bedroom door, Robert broke in Stolenda's clothes and jewelry and gave her belongings to his dates. Even her attorney's office was burglarized, and act investigators believed Robert had arranged He was making it clear that he wouldn't let Linda go easily. She was nervous that every attorney in Dallas was in Robert's pocket. She hired a new attorney, m j eike Vandernigel, an unflappable, protective man whom Linda believed had high morals and her best interest at heart.

26:38 The divorce had become so bitter that the court had to intervene over the smallest details, even holding a hearing to decide who would be allowed to do their daughter Kathleen's ballet bun and make up before her dance recital. Guy have a hard time believing that Robert would want to do that. I believe you never wanted to have anything to do with our daughter's ballet bunch. Well, I was an expert at creating. Okay, but that just demonstrates how petty he was. I consisted that Linda attend the recital with a private investigator he knew to protect her. Robert attended with his new girlfriend, Diana Kay. Religion again became an issue between the Edelmans when in her custody, Linda took the children to her Baptist church and Robert took them to his synagogue. The judge noted during the divorce, both Linda and Robert seemed to grow more devout, each trying to outdo the other in their displays of their faith. Brian Webb, the court appointed attorney for the children, said what these people were doing to their children was just atrocious. They both loved their kids, there was no question of that. But I've never seen two people behave so misguidedly with their children.

27:49 The court recognized that professional intervention was necessary to help the children navigate the turmoil surrounding their family. A court appointed psychiatrist was brought in to evaluate the children, as the bitter divorce was taking a clear toll on their mental and emotional well being. Teachers reported declines in school performance, with both children struggling to concentrate in complete assignments. Knights became restless. They experienced frequent nightmares and trouble sleeping, waking anxious and withdrawn. The stress of witnessing constant parental conflict left them emotionally fragile, and friends and family noticed a marked change in their behavior. They were quieter, more anxious, and hesitant to express themselves. Everyone told Robert that Linda would win the custody battle. Their children were better off with her. She was present, patient and loving. Friends even offered to videotape Robert's reckless, striving and erratic behavior for Linda in testifier on her behalf in court. For Robert, it was about winning, not about what was in the best interest of the children. But if Linda were to die, no court or judge would stand in the way. He would instantly gain full custody, and even better, he wouldn't lose any money. They met in a dim corner of a restaurant, a clandestine meeting between two men with dark intentions.

29:08 Robert Edelman unrolled a set of blueprints, smoothing them along the table between them. This is the layout of my house, and this is the route she will take, he said, pointing to the document. The man sitting across from Robert was James Young, sixty three, a retired colonel in the Army, A slender man with a weathered face who worked as a private investigator and sometimes in darker side projects. He leaned in to study the drawing. His finger traced the document without comment. Young had been in Edelman's employ for months, keeping tabs on his wife. He was sure she was having an affair, and he was determined to catch her in the act. You see where that alarm panel is, Robert asked, voice low. The garage would be the easiest place to get her. There's no alarm there, Young met his gaze. Got it make it look like a robbery, Robert said brusquely, and he he hesitated, swallowing another darker request.

30:02 Her parents will be there too. You may need to take care of them as well. Young's mouth twitched, half smile, half grimace. My weapon, he asked, or to fill the silence then from necessity, Hey, whatever you want, Robert replied, whatever you're comfortable with. Young shrugged, Old army knife always with me, no problem. He folded his hands on the table and spoke calmly. How Soon Young asked, what you need to do in the next two weeks? Robert said he watched Young's face for any sign of hesitation. The divorce trial was in two weeks, and Robert was nervous he'd be denied custody. Of course, Young answered smoothly, no worries. Robert handed over two thousand dollars, a down payment of the forty five thousand dollar fee. He told Young that he would need proof that Linda was dead, the jewelry that she wore daily. A Rolex watched a ring and a locket with Stephen and Kathleen's pictures. He wouldn't pay the balance until he had these items in his possession.

30:59 They left the rest restaurant like two men who had finalized a deal. Few words exchanged and little emotion expressed, just the quiet efficiency of two men doing business. Did Robert feel the weight of the decision he'd made? Did he think about the implications on his two young children, who adored their mother? Not likely. Young, a former Green Beret and decorated war hero, didn't plan on killing anyone. He didn't like to get his hands dirty, although he never shared this information with Edelman. He was deeply entrenched in the shadowy world of mercenaries and hired killers. His role was to find the hit jobs, not do the dirty work himself. He'd find someone to get rid of Robert Edelman's problematic wife. He reached out to an associate, Fred Zabatowski, also a decorated war veteran, to make the hit on Linda Edelman and her parents if necessary. Zabatoski declined the job and said he'd put Young in touch with a skilled and trusted associate. Young offered ten thousand dollars for the job while quietly pocketing thirty five thousand dollars of the fee for himself.

32:04 Why are all these decorated war veterans willing to either kill someone or help kill someone. You would think you could trust someone who was a decorated war hero. Well, I believe these guys are the exception, not the rule. But can you believe that Colonel Old Young is pocketing thirty five thousand dollars and the person who's doing the putting himself at greater risk or only getting paid ten thousand dollars? Yeah, that's kind of crazy. Days later, Linda's new lawyer, Ike called with an urgent request. Thus far, Ike had been worth his FT fee. He had gotten Linda out of the house sharing arrangement that had been such a disaster. Linda, I need you in my office Saturday morning, eight forty five sharp, he said. It's important, so important in fact, that he was cutting his vacation short to meet with her.

32:49 Linda hung up, convinced that Robert and his attorneys had come up with a new tactic to cheat her in the divorce settlement. Whatever it was, she was ready to fight back. When she arrived, Ike usher her inside almost immediately, his expression tight with impatience. You're late, he snapped. Come in, this is serious. Inside two unfamiliar men were waiting. They were tall, stone faced, and their presence filled the small office. Missus Edelman one said, flashing his credentials. We're with the FBI. Linda blinked, confused the FBI. The agent nodded gravely. Linda. On June twenty fifth, a witness came forward with information that your husband hired someone to kill you, he said, evenly, getting to the point, and we're aware there's already been one failed attempt. Linda felt weightless, unmoored as his impossible words echoed through her brain. He continued, The man your husband hired followed you and your family to Disney World last month. His orders were to kill you and your parents in front of your children, if necessary. Linda felt the blood rush from her face, her ears rang The room tilted slightly. She saw his lips moving, but couldn't process a word. Tears stung her eyes as a cold realization took cold. Robert had been cruel, even violent, but she had never ever believed he would try to kill her.

34:10 The agent folded his hands and looked at Linda with a steady professional calm. Robert hired a man named James Young. Colonel James Young. Young delegated the job. The FBI agent continued. He gave the job to an associate who agreed to do the job, but that man instead came to us with the information. Linda frowned, not sure as she understood, as she got her legs back under her, So he turned on Young. We asked our informant to go back and tell Young he didn't want to do it himself, the agent continued, but he would refer Young to a friend, someone called hit Man Jack. Do you think hitman Jack was his birth name?

34:51 I would hope not, but yeah, it seems he was destined for that job. To me like this, this part of the story is like, really, his name is Hitman Jack. That assumes that's pretty ridiculous. Linda's breath hitched and the agent's eyes didn't leave hers. Hit Man Jack is an FBI agent. The room went still. Linda's hands tightened in her lap. The agent leaned forward. There's more. We believe the best way to catch your husband is to run a sting, to have you fake your own death for a short time. It could be as little as a week, possibly as long as a month. You want me to die, Linda whispered. For the operation to work, he said, we'd have to tell everyone, your parents, your friends, the public, that you're dead while you're safely concealed in a secure safe house. It's the only way to draw Robert Young and their accomplices out.

35:45 I know what you're thinking, why don't they just arrest Robert because he hired someone to kill his wife? But they can't because no money exchanged hands and they didn't have a recording of that conversation. What I was actually thinking was I hope they fake her death because I love stories like that. The only thing that would make it better, and I don't know what's going to happen, would be if they actually had her fake her death and took like photos with fake blood around and stuff like that. I think that's There are other stories where that kind of thing happens, and I just think it's really cool. You have to wait and see, don't you think that's really cruel though, for Linda to have to fake her death and not letting her family and friends and that is cruel.

36:25 Yeah. Linda stared at the FBI agent and pondered what to do. The agent watched her closely, waiting for the question that would decide everything. I can't do that to my parents. It will kill them. There must be another way, Linda pleted grudgingly. The FBI decided to include Virginia and John da Silva in their plan, but not Stephen and Kathleen. They were too young to understand. The plan was for Linda to go missing while law enforcement would heavily suggest publicly that Robert had something to do with her disappearance. While Linda was secure in a safe house, Robert had custody of the children from Friday to Wednesday. During that time, the FBI decided to disappear Linda and take her to a safe house. The plan called for hitman Jack to give Linda's jewelry to Colonel Young as proof of the hit, who would then inform Robert that the job was complete if everything went according to plan. The safe house was Ike's lake House, about two hours from Dallas. The FBI wanted to place Linda further away, but she refused because she didn't want to be too far from her children in case of a mishap, The FBI promised Linda, who was badly shaken, dizzy with fear that she would be in their sights at all times, even if she didn't see them they were watching. The one consolation to Linda was if she was able to survive this, her custody troubles would be over because Robert would be in jail for a long time. The FBI asked Linda not to say anything to her parents about the plan over the weekend.

37:55 It was a delicate operation with many moving parts. If anyone slipped up, people could lose their lives. Once informed a few days later by the FBI agents, the Da Silvas were incredulous that their son in law wanted their daughter and even themselves dead. After they had recovered from the shock of their life, they agreed to cooperate. They played an important part in the plan. They had previously planned to drive to Colorado with Linda and the kids in their new motor home the following Wednesday. On Tuesday, they would drive to Linda's house in Dallas. She would be at the safe house, but it would appear that she had gone missing. At five pm sharp, they would head to the police station to report her missing. The FBI was concerned that Robert might have some moles in the police department, so there was one particular officer that would be on duty that they believed was trustworthy, who would take the report that would set the wheels in motion for the media to report on the disappearance and for the FBI to interview Robert. The FBI had cautioned Linda that she couldn't take anything from her house or someone, especially her beloved housekeeper Rozilla, might be tipped off, not even a suitcase, especially a suitcase. She bought all new clothing and toiletries for her stay at the safe house.

39:11 She placed them in file boxes to make it look like she was carrying case files from the upcoming trial. She spent the weekend on edge, hyper vigilant, fully aware that her life was in danger, along with the lives of her loved ones and the agents assigned to protect her. The last thing she did before she left her home was to write a will. At four pm on Monday, she went to Ike's office under the guise of having an appointment, but this was the planned time for her to be handed over to FBI custody. Ike drove her to his lake house two hours north of Dallas. They stopped at a grocery store to get provisions for Linda for the week. Linda and Ike's blood ran cold when a cashier said hello and greeted him by name. Worried that any slight misstep could result in a blown operation, Ike showed Linda around the lake house and got her settled.

40:00 Before he left, he cautioned her not to answer the phone. If the FBI needs to reach you, they will call me first, and then I will call you. That's the deal. I will let the phone ring three times, hang up, and call back thirty seconds later. Do not answer the phone to anyone else. It was a sleepless night for Linda. She began to rethink the FBI's strategy of leaving her alone in the woods in an unfamiliar house. The next morning, just after dawn, the phone rang. Linda counted the rings one, two, three, four, pause, then thirty seconds later it began to ring again. Ike had been very clear about their signal. She decided not to answer, but the phone continued to ring off the hook for the rest of the morning, four rings, pause, then ringing again. Her nerves frazzled, she was unsure what to do. A coffee cup slipped from her unsteady hands and shattered on the floor. Tears welled in her eyes.

40:57 How had this nightmare become her life? She woned, So, who do you think was calling? I think it was the lawyer. I always wonder what the phone's ringing. I often wonder this, like if if I hear three rings, does that mean they hear three rings? You're spot on exactly. It was I can he called at least twelve times, he said, And he was super frustrated because on his side it was, you know, ringing the three times, and on her side it was ringing four times. Well, poor Linda was beside herself. She's like, it's so close. He told me not to answer to anyone else, And you were so scared being in this lake house by herself, and you know, not sure if she should trust anyone. Yeah, you know, the people say their FBI agents. But she's like, yeah, I don't know.

41:43 Yeah, that would be a terrifying experience. We'll be back after a break. Meanwhile, back in Dallas, Linda's absence was almost immediately discovered. Each night when the children were with Robert, they called Linda to say good night. It's seven pm sharp, they'd tell her about their day, and sometimes she'd sing to them or read a story over the phone. She never missed a call. Ever, Those nightly moments grounded the children. Linda was their anchor. But that night, at seven pm, there was no answer. Eight year old Stephen, bright and perceptive, immediately sensed something was wrong. His mother would never forget their call. Panic began to rise in his chest.

42:32 That must have been one of the hardest things for her to like, let I know, oh, I was so young, but to let them believe that she was just not answering their call. And it sounds like Stephen, especially was very closely bonded with his mother, and it sounded like he knew that she needed protecting from Robert. So it was made that much more traumatic for Stephen. So Stephen called mary Ellen Lehner, a friend and neighbor of the Edelmans. Hearing the panic in his voice, she'd tried to calm him and promised to check on Linda. When mary Ellen arrived, the house was dark and still. She pressed her face to the windows, straining to see inside, but there was nothing, no movement, no light. She returned home, where the phone was ringing again. Stephen, still anxious, Mary Ellen assured him once more, suggesting that his mother was probably out visiting a friend in need.

43:24 When mary Ellen hung up with Stephen, she called Risilla, the Edelman's longtime housekeeper. Risilla told her that Linda had met with her lawyer at four o'clock. Risilla had gone home shortly after. By now, Linda should have been back home. She hadn't mentioned any other plans, and she certainly wouldn't have missed the call with her children. Both women were gravely concerned, though neither said it aloud. They were thinking the same thing. Robert had done something terrible to Linda. Poor Stephen was still beside himself with worry. He called Risilla, seeking rehashas, assurance and answers. She tried her best to calm him. She called Mary Ellen again and asked her to reach out to Linda's parents in Oklahoma to see if there could have been a family emergency. Virginia's calm demeanor surprised mary Ellen. They didn't seem to be concerned.

44:17 They hung up and agreed to speak the next day. But if you remember Virginia and John, Linda's parents, they were in on it. Yeah. Well, It almost seems like they should have acted a little more alarmed if they really didn't want to blow the plan. When Risilla arrived at the Edelmans the next morning, she went straight to Linda's room as she always did, to wake her, but the bed was empty. The covers were rumpled, yet it didn't look as if anyone had actually slept in the bed. The bottom of the sheets were still neatly tucked in, just as Risilla had left them the day before. She called Mary Ellen to tell her that Linda was still missing and her car was gone. When Mary Ellen called the De Silvas that morning and got no answer, she reached out to Linda's sister, Miriam, who immediate grew concerned. Next, she phoned Ike, who told her not to worry. He would contact law enforcement, but before hanging up, he asked her to keep it under her hat smooth like. The request struck Mariyellen as strange. Shouldn't everyone be worried but Linda was missing. Miriam then called several other relatives, setting off a firestorm of concern. Soon the entire family was worried, not just about Linda, but also about John and Virginia. After someone drove to their house and found them missing as well. The local police were contacted and a missing person's report was filed. So soon after, Miriam and her aunt Jeanie got on the road and headed to Dallas. Meanwhile, Rizilla called every person in Linda's phone book to see if anyone had seen her.

45:47 Ike couldn't believe how fast the chain of events had unfolded. The plan was already in jeopardy. No one was supposed to know that Linda was missing until the next day, Wednesday, when Robert returned. The children did under as estimated how un edged the communities surrounding Linda was after she'd suffered from years of abuse. Virginia and John de Silva weren't missing, of course. They had packed up their motor home early and hit the road to Dallas, deliberately taking their time to avoid the flood of phone calls they knew would come about Linda's disappearance. The drive from their home in Oklahoma to Dallas was a three hour drive, but they intended to make it as long as possible. Their part in the FBI's plan was to arrive at Linda's house at four pm, but with their nervous energy. They arrived in Dallas by lunchtime that De Silva stopped for a bite to eat, then parked their motor home and decided to relax and watch TV until it was time to go to Linda's house. Miriam and Aunt Jeannie had high tailed it to Dallas, making it in record time. They hoped to find the big motor home with Virginia and John safely inside, but they did not. Jerry Hubbell, one of the agents assigned to protect Linda Edelman from a hitman hired by her strange husband, approached the safe house by motor boat. The sound of the engine startled Linda, but relief washed over her when she recognized the FBI agent bobbing along the water, glimmering in the morning light.

47:10 Short and solidly built, Hubble had a reassuring presence that made Linda feel safe. Jerry asked if she wanted to go for a ride on his boat, and she agreed. Linda locked up the house securely and joined Jerry on the boat. He offered her a hand to pull her aboard. When seated, she felt exhaustion overtake her from the stress of the past few days and the sleepless night, Linda closed her eyes for a moment, lulled by the motion of the boat and the sound of the waves crashing. When she opened her eyes, Jerry was staring at her, his expression unreadable. Where are we going, Jerry? Oh, just a little ride, he shouted back. Her pulse quickened. She mentally flipped through every piece of safety advice she'd ever heard.

47:51 Never let them take you to a second location. She squinted into the sun, sizing him up carefully. You never say much. I do sometimes, but not with you. Though his grin returned friendly, er diabolical. It was hard to tell. Why not with me? Well, you're not supposed to hear my voice too much. We didn't want you to be too familiar with it. Why not because I'm the hit man? What you're leading me on here? This is He's not really the hit man, is he. You'll have to wait and see. Mary Ellen Risella, and another close friend of Linda's, Janet Lesser, sat around the kitchen table trying to come up with a plan. I could just call to tell them that they needed to wait twenty four hours before filing a missing person's report, but that made no sense to them. They knew Linda was in danger. Ignoring his instructions, they decided to go to the police station anyway. The officers didn't seem to take them seriously, but took down the information. Afterward, mary Ellen drove around searching for Linda's car and mall parking lots and other places she might have gone, but of course the search came up empty. Linda's car was in an FBI warehouse. When the women gathered back at Linda's house, Miriam and aunt Jeanie arrived soon after, followed by Virginia and John. There were tearful embraces and anxious questions about Linda's safety, but several people couldn't help noticing that her parents seemed off well. Everyone else was distraught. Virginia and John appeared strangely calm, almost detached.

49:24 They really should have given Linda and John a few acting lessons before to try to like coach them in this. Well. I'm just glad that they had the peace of mind knowing that Linda at that point was safe. Yeah, for sure. Linda's blood ran cold, and a low buzzing noise filled her ears as she tried to process what Jerry had just said. Soon they stopped at the marina. He offered her a hand to help her out of the boat. Linda, are you okay? You look like you've seen a ghost. You didn't think I was the real hip man, did you? He laughed. I'm hip man Jack, the fake hit man. They sat together at the marina and had a couple of coffee together. Hitman Jack paid. That was cruel. That was cruel what you just did.

50:06 I'm sorry. I don't normally do that, but I felt like I needed to in this case. No, that was a good little twist. At ten pm, Colonel Young received a call at his home in Greenville, an hour east of Dallas. The job's done, the voice said. The FBI then issued a fake report alerting law enforcement across Texas and Oklahoma that Linda's carr had been discovered that evening July twenty first, nineteen eighty seven, at a rest stop near Durant, just over the Texas border. There were signs of foul play. The report read blood inside the vehicle, but no body was found and immediate search was launched. The FBI knew Robert would have already been told the job was done, but they hoped he would want to maintain the appearance of normalcy and wouldn't try to keep the children. Everyone was on edge, knowing the success of the entire operation depended on this critical.

50:56 Moment, meaning him dropping the kids off gotcha. The group of Linda's friends and family waited anxiously for the children to be returned home safely but promptly. At eight a m. Robert pulled up in his black Cadillac. The children ran from the car into the house, hoping to find their mother. Robert backed down the long driveway, not getting out of the car or even giving a wave goodbye. A sense of relief flooded the adults in the house. Now that Kathleen and Stephen were back home safely, there was no way they'd let Robert see them again. While Linda was still missing. Virginia tried to tell Kathleen and Stephen that their mother was with their cat, who was at the vet suffering from feline leukemia. It's a very involved story. It was true that the cat was sick, but Stephen doubted that Linda was at the vet. He knew she'd be home to greet them if she was okay.

51:44 Before Linda left for the safe house, she had taken the cat to the VAT, and she was pretty upset about it because she wanted to be there to make decisions. But she told the vet, I trust you make whatever decision you need to make if I can't be. There, gotcha. Later that morning, the children had an appointment with their court appointed psychiatrist. As they were about to leave to take the children to their therapy session, FBI agent Joe Masterson came by to inform the family that Linda's carr had been found with blood on the interior. Because it would be reported by the media soon, Masterson knew he needed to get to the uninformed family members. Soon. They were rocked by the news, but again Virginia and John were stoic. Upon hearing the news, John drove the children to therapy, with Miriam tagging along for support. It was decided that doctor Dan Myers would tell Kathleen and Stephen that their mother was missing. Stephen especially was distraught at the news, sobbing and rocking himself in the fetal position. Kathleen, who tended to be less emotives, said, my mother is dead.

52:47 My daddy killed her. She went to her brother and hugged him tightly to comfort him whispering in his ear. Heart breaking. Really, yeah, it's really heartbreaking. It makes you think there must have been a better way to do this. But I think the problem was that the FBI had seriously underestimated how perceptive these kids were. Yeah, they were both like super smart and perceptive. When FBI agent Joe Masterson called Ike to check on the children, he could tell the emotional toll on Kathleen and Stephen was too great. They needed to be reunited with their mother in the safe house. The challenge was figuring out how to make it happen without arousing suspicion. They decided Virginia and John would take the children in their motor home under the guise of bringing them back to Oklahoma to escape the media frenzy. The FBI also agreed to let Miriam in on the truth that Linda was alive and safe, so she could help quell the growing panic among the others. But Ike underestimated the children.

53:47 They refused to go into the motor home. They wanted to stay at home until their mother was found. Ike had no other choice but to take them outside and tell them that their mother was alive and their grandparents were taking them to her, and Stephen shouted in joy at the news. Ike had to force them into the motor home so they wouldn't alert the others. Once the children were on their way to meet Linda, FBI agent Joe Masterson descended on Robert's office, Mister Edelman, I'm very sorry to inform you that your wife, Linda Edelman, has been missing since Monday evening. A search for her is underway. The FBI was asked to enter the case when her car was found at a rest stop across the state line in Oklahoma. Masterson told Robert that Linda's car was found with what was likely bloodstains. He was a suspect, and Masterson asked him his whereabouts at the time of her disappearance Monday evening. Robert said he was with the children.

54:41 The interview was short, but Edelman was obviously unnerved. Later, Robert met with the colonel again at Howard Johnson's. He was furious, you are supposed to make it look like a robbery. Why would you remove her and her vehicle from the house. It makes no sense, he exclaimed. When Colonel Young admitted that he had hired hitman Jack to do the job, himself rather than carrying it out personally. Robert exploded in anger, but Young quickly assured him that Jack was the best and that the job had been completed. I mean, he didn't know anything about Hitman Jack. Saves Hitman Jack. Of course he's the best. Obviously. The FBI had keen eyes and ears on the meeting.

55:21 No money changed hands. They didn't want to make any arrests until that happened. I'm just remembering that Robert hates to pay people too, so this could take a while at guessing. Farious stute observation. As always, the next day, the colonel met with Hitman Jack aka Jerry Hubble. Hubble handed over Linda's jewelry and the colonel gave him an envelope with five thousand dollars cash inside. Once the money exchanged hands, two FBI agents seized the colonel, cuffed him and read him his rights. Minutes later, several more agents descended on Robert's office, guns drawn. Robert forty one surrendered and didn't utter a word. Like then called the house and talked to Risella and told her that Linda and the children were safe and Robert was in custody. She cried giant tears of relief. Neighbors were quickly notified and they hurried to decorate the trees with yellow ribbons for Linda, Kathleen, and Steven's homecoming.

56:16 So my heart goes out to Risella in this case, because that poor woman was really distraught over Linda's appearance. She loved Linda and the kids like her family. Yeah, and you let everyone else know. I can't Risella no well. And as cruel as it seems that they made people, they let people believe that Linda had been killed. I can only imagine like the relief that people felt when they found out it would be like her coming back to life. Almost gratefully. The murder plot had been thwarted, Robert and his henchmen safely behind bars, but the chilling question remained. Could he have hired multiple hit man? Were there more people lying in wait to kill Linda or her family members.

56:57 Was there a plan that would set into motion to complete the hit if he was arrested. In the week after Robert's arrest, a bomb threat on Linda's home had been called in and the FBI found listening devices throughout her home. Linda, Stephen, and Kathleen along with Virginia and John, were once again whisked away and kept under the FBI's watchful eye. The trial began in February nineteen eighty eight. Linda took the stand and testified about the domestic violence that she and the children had endured, but the defense managed to paint her as a vapid socialite with a spending problem. The prosecution argued that Robert Edelman had hired James Colonel Young to kill his estranged wife to protect his money and gain custody of the children. The defense countered that Young was a disturbed man who had plotted the murder on his own. Robert had only hired him to follow Linda, hoping to catch her with a boyfriend, not to kill her. The FBI had failed to produce a single photograph or video proving that Robert and Young had ever met to discuss a murder plot. Bank records also undermined the prosecution's theory. Robert's monthly spending remained steady, with no sign of the twenty one thousand dollars allegedly paid to Young. Defense attorney Steve Sumner argued that both motives money and custody made no sense Robert wasn't fighting for full custody, and his finances were collapsing, not thriving.

58:26 When Robert took the stand, he came across as calm and credible to many observers. He spoke about his upcoming November wedding to his fiance, Diana Kay and their plans for a European honeymoon with his children proved. The defense argued that he had no reason to want Linda dead, and he'd never really wanted full custody. I said something a minute ago about the twenty one thousand dollars that he paid to Young. Remember that he was a private investigator too, and that he'd been private investigator for months leading up to the murder plot. The trial came down to a battle of credibility between two men with checkered pasts. Both had lied, but the jury ultimately chose to believe Young.

59:09 After deliberating for less than three hours, the jury found Robert Edelman guilty and two counts of conspiracy to commit murder. Jurors later admitted that Robert's sarcasm and arrogance on the stand, what one dubbed the asshole factor, worked against him in the end. Demeanor seemed to outweigh proof, and Robert Edelman was convicted. He was sentenced to ten years in prison and fined one hundred thousand dollars. Robert also faced state charges. To avoid these charges, he gave off his parental rights to Kathleen and Stephen. Linda gave the deal her blessing. He was sentenced nine years by the state, but was able to serve the time. Concurrently, Colonel Young was sentenced to seven years in prison, receiving a lighter sentence for his co operation with the prosecution. So the FBI later found Colonel Jung to be a fraud. His decorated military career had been a sham. He'd been dishonorably discharged from the Army as a private in nineteen forty six. He had worked in various jobs over the years, never for very long until he became a private investigator, although he did not have the proper credentials.

1:00:19 Well, that makes me feel better about my earlier comments. So there really weren't a bunch of decorated army heroes. No, And the one fella that was a decorated army hero he was the one who contacted the FBI but young went through great pains to he had like fifty proclamations like all over his walls and different fake medals to try to prove that he was this great war hero Wow. After his release from prison, Robert married Diana and formed another real estate company, DHLP, to develop the Drexel Highlander Building in Dallas. It was a partnership between Robert and a man named Glenn Wiggins. In twenty fourteen, Robert was indicted once again after a court ruled that he had fraudulently used company funds for personal luxuries, including living rent free in a four five hundred dollars a month DHLP penthouse condo despite being ordered to leave. His wife, Diana also collected illegal commissions even though she wasn't a company employee. On the eve of the trial, Edelman filed for bankruptcy. The court awarded four point five million dollars in damages to DHLP, ruling Robert's debt non dischargeable and bankruptcy since it stemmed from fraud. It was ruled that he had secretly accessed and misused company funds and trusted to him by Wiggins, a longtime friend who had even introduced to him to his wife Diana.

1:01:49 Once a crook, always a crook. Right, yep? So I believe that he died in twenty twenty four. There was a nineteen ninety three made for TV movie about the Edelmans called Dead for Dawn, starring Cheryl Ladd and Jamison Parker. Do you know who Jamison Parker? I don't. I know who Cheryl Ladd is, but not Jamison Parker. The name like sounded so familiar to me. He was in Simon and Simon, and he is blonde and has like really good hair that never moves. Linda sold the house and bought a smaller one. She taught voice lessons in her home and worked part time at a Baptist church. Kathleen, like her mother, shined on stage dancing and singing. Stephen threw himself into sports and excelled. So it sounds like, you know, after everything, the kids were okay. Yeah, And it sounds like Linda has a pretty peaceful life too.

1:02:38 I think she's eighty now. I think she's still with us. Okay, that's good here, Yeah, so we have a happy ending. Yeah, that's nice. A lot of people have asked for more stories with happy endings. So yeah, it's hard to find them, but when you do, they definitely do make you feel good. It's very nice not to have a rest in peace segment, Yes, for sure. How much of Robert Edelman's motive do you think was finance versus emotional? Hmmm, good question. It seems like there was a little bit of both in him, Like he really liked to be controlling, but he also really liked money as well. So get I'm gonna go with fifty to fifty on this one, but. Yeah, hard, I think I'm gonna go like seventy thirty seventy money thirty emotional. Yeah, that could be.

1:03:19 What do you think of this sentencing? I'm not sure how long he served for. Again, there was not a lot of like, yeah, there are hardly any newspaper articles on this one. I read a book that I'll talk about in a minute. But so I'm not sure if he served the whole ten years, I mean, probably not right well, And it bothered me too that he was able to serve concurrently. Yeah, yeah, the sentencing seems kind of light. I'm always kind of baffled when somebody hires someone to do a murder and it doesn't succeed, it feels like the sentence should be the same as if it did succeed. I mean, right, they took every action to try to kill someone, But I know it doesn't work like that, but it does seem very light, like ten years, and you know, he probably served five with good behavior. So yeah, it doesn't seem like enough for basically trying to kill your wife and potentially her parents as well.

1:04:08 Right, because he made the decision to end her life. The reason her life wasn't ended was because someone else intervened. Right. Do you think he put the hit out on her because she filed for divorce? Yeah? I think guys like him they can't take that sort of rejection like he. You know, well, partly the money, you know, he would probably have to pay her off a fair amount, but I think just you know, people like that can't handle being rejected. Right, And he had a lot of kind of deceitful behavior in his background, and he really wasn't an honest businessman. He wanted to like kind of screw people out of money. Do you think those character traits in part mean that he is more likely to kill his wife?

1:04:48 Kind of? Yeah? I mean the first spread flag to me was when he was like harassing that the one woman who had bought a house, you know, and wanted him to make repairs, and he's like basically stalking her and calling her, and I mean there's a lot of red flags there for someone like that. Do you feel like justice was served in this case? I mean, Linda has her life and her peace and freedom, and she was able to raise her children out of her own right, and I think that's probably what she would have most wanted. Yeah, So in some ways, I just think the sentence wasn't enough to really do justice. But I mean, overall, yeah, she came out of it, Okay, she survived, she got custody of the children. I'm assuming the children have nothing to do He had nothing to do with him anymore from that perspective, So overall, yeah, I just wish the sentence had been longer.

1:05:36 Yeah. I didn't say much about the movie, but I watched about half of the movie and it's available on YouTube. You can watch the whole thing commercial free. I will link it in show notes. I thought it was pretty solid. Yeah. Yeah, And I think I was watching it the other day when you were coming about it, and I said Cheryl Land was kind of a babe because she was Charlie's Angels. They were pretty lady. Sure, sometimes those older, those made for tea movies from like the eighties and nineties, they can be they can be kind of cheesy, but yeah, sometimes they did a good job with them. Yeah. Absolutely, this was probably better than a Lifetime movie, but there is nothing wrong with a lifetime movie in my opinion. I know. So my main source was a book called My Husband's Trying to Kill Me, A true story of money, marriage and murderous and intent by Jim Shootsie. And I can't really say that I recommend this book. I always felt bad when that happens, but I had never seen and I thought it was a newer book, but I think the kindle version was what was new as I was searching for like newer true crime books and yeah, press this one. So there was one section when like I'm not kidding, like forty pages were repeated and.

1:06:47 I was like, that's bizarre. It was very strange, and I was like, do I have like was there a slight difference? And Win did it end? And Win died it? So it was really. Superasy be a pretty significant mistake to not catch before it went out in the kindle edition. Yeah, one more question for you. You were talking about how the parents, Virginia and John, maybe they should have been given acting lessons, But what do you think about FBI men. Do you think they have acting lessons? No, did they not do a good job acting? I'm not saying I don't know if they did or didn't, but I feel like that's a hard thing to pull off. It would be a hard thing to pull up. You have to be kind of emotional. But maybe they tend to be kind of not that they're cold and detached, but I think that's the way they're supposed to present themselves, So maybe they just always kind of act cold and detached.

1:07:33 I would just think it would be hard to play along with, like, you know, starting an investigation and making it look like you're doing an investigation when you're really not, Like you would just be sort of like, you know, that would be hard to make up. But yeah, they would normally be fairly serious and not super emotional anyway, so maybe not as hard for them. I think that's a fair point. Well, we hope that you guys enjoyed this happier edition. Of Love, Mary Kill, the story of Linda da Silva and Robert Women Before we Go. I have a couple of celebrity couple news stories that I saw this week that I thought that maybe we could talk good.

1:08:14 Because I'm behind on my celebrity couples news. So it's not like, you know, people breaking up or it was just a couple of stories that I thought were interesting. Okay. One is Kelly Rippa and her husband Mark and Sualos on their show, which I haven't watched in like one hundred years, but they were talking about the airport and airport divorces, and Kelly told Mark that she wanted an airport divorce. And what she meant by that is because I think I probably want an airport divorce too, okay, is that they have very different flying and traveling habits. Okay. And if you're Kelly, if you're a celebrity, like your flying experience is completely different anyway, But actually yours is too because you have some sort of special clearance.

1:08:58 Oh say pre check that only helps me get through security faster. Yeah. Right, But a lot of times you'll just leave me. See when you get to the other side. You're nice and you don't, but usually it's like yells you, which is always super fun to go to by security, to go through security by myself. But what she was saying was like Mark likes to get there super early and she doesn't. And I always make fun of you for that too. Yes, because you, like any I will say that You're probably right. I know you're supposed to get there early, but it's we never really hit traffic. The Detrade airport is never that busy. Yeah, but sometimes the parking garage is closed and you have to go to the other parking garage and take a shuttle bus and you just never know what's going to happen. I've had, I have had. There have been at least a few times that I would have missed my flight if I had not gotten to the airport early.

1:09:53 But you're right. In general, ninety five percent of the time, it's you know, I get their way too early. And you and your in your life and you're not a young man, no offense. You have never missed a flight due to your own behavior. I have come very close a couple of times, but and it never missed a. Flight, right, So that's pretty remarkable because you've taken you know a lot of flights in your life. Yes, but I'm still unclear of what the concept of an airport divorce actually is. I mean, I think she was just like being silly. She was just saying, like, you know, they go their separate, separate ways. Yeah, when I've heard too, like some couples won't fly together in case, you know, there's an emergency like the plane crashes.

1:10:34 Oh yeah, Like corporations, they are a lot of like insurance policies for corporate executives don't allow a certain set of executives to fly together. I didn't know that. I know that's like a thing with the president, Like, isn't like the president and the vice president, right, will never fly together? Yeah, but that's it's true corporations. Yeah, a lot of times, like the executive leadership team, they will not be allowed to fly together. Yeah. So this other one you may have heard because it made a lot of headlines, but it was Kristen Bell and Dax Shepherd's anniversary last week. Yeah both. I think they're both Michigan natives. Am I right in that? I think? No idea? But but Kristin posted happy twelfth anniversary to the man who once said to me, I would never kill you.

1:11:17 A lot of men have killed their wives at a certain point. Even though I'm heavily incentivized to kill you, I never would. How do you think about that. I think it's just their sense of humor. I don't have a problem with it, but I know they got in a little hot water. We've gotten a lot of trouble about it, Yeah, because you know, it's kind of making light of domestic violence. And the reason I wanted to talk about it because I feel like we never try to make light of domestic violence. But I feel like the opening of our show and the ending of our show is a little cheeky, and we've talked about it a lot, and you know, I just never wanted to seem like we're being flippant about you know, marital you know problems or you know, yeah, domestic violence.

1:12:01 Yeah, Yeah, for sure, it is a fine line. I think it's fun to be goofy and goof around and you know, joke about things like that. But at the same time, yeah, I would feel terrible if people felt like we were making fun of that sort of thing. And I'm sure they didn't, you know, same thing. I think they just have a quirky sense of humor and we're being. Goofy, and yeah, I think sometimes people need to relax. But I also, you know, do have so much empathy for people who have suffered through domestic violence? Yeah, I can totally see how that could be come off as offensive to folks. I have listened to a lot of interviews with Kristin Ball over the years, and if you know anything about her, she's a very kind and lovely person who only wants the best for everyone. So I'm sure she felt horrible about, you know, making some people feel a certain way. Yeah, I'm sure that was not her intent. Yeah, do you have anything else before we go?

1:12:50 I just have a recommendation for a YouTube channel that I've been obsessed with lately. I'm not big on like watching. Love Mary Kill You channel we always forget to talk about. It is not that, but no, it is a is a channel. It's called Virgin Rock, and it is this woman who is a classically trained harpist and pianist. She teaches like classical music and basically she decided to start listening to rock music. She had never in her entire life listened to popular or rock and roll music. Really, And so she makes these videos where she is listening to famous songs for the first time and reacting to them and basically giving her like feedback on them. And I would never think that would be something interesting to watch, but it's so fascinating. Like she'll listen to like Bohemian Rhapsody or like just you know, a lot of classic rock songs. And if you're into like classic rock like me, it's like introducing a friend to music for the first time.

1:13:45 And she'll just listen and she gets these looks. She's like a very kind of prim and proper lady, and she just has these reactions that are just it's just really fun to watch. Why had she never listened to like rock music before. I don't really know her background. She has some type of accent that I'm not able to play, so I don't know where she grew up, but I think she just all she did was classical music her whole life, and so she just has never listened to this music at all before. So does she try to play it then or make it classical? Sometimes she'll go over to the piano and play like little bits like oh, here's you know here they're doing this thing where they go into this key or whatever. But no, she doesn't try to like play it. She just gives her like feedback on the song, like you know what she likes. Yeah, she doesn't like. So it's really it's just really entertaining to watch.

1:14:30 It sounds lighthearted. It is, Yes, it's very lighthearted and it's just fun. So when I'm working on the podcast sometimes I always want background music or background sound, and like modern classical is one of my favorite things to pick. It's you know, not classical classical, but you know, just like a little twist on it. Yeah, I will check that out. Yeah, definitely do. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at Love mary Kill at email dot com. And if you'd like to listen to part two of this episode, you're out of luck because it's a one part episode, but we would still love it. If you would consider supporting us on Patreon. We really would. You know, we are still a two person crew and we work really hard.

1:15:14 We really do. Go to Patreon dot com slash Love Mary Kill. We have one tier five dollars a month, and for that you get early ad free access plus a monthly bonus episode. Thank you so much for listening and supporting us on our podcast. We love you guys so much. Until next time, don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

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