Lynette Joy Simms and Chris Dawson - Part 1

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm rich. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that some. Days you'll feel like killing your wife and. Some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary kill. Good day, mate. How you go in? I'm going okay? How are you going? You're supposed to say like, yeah, dinkham very Dingkham. Well, I don't know if you're really supposed to say that we are going to Australia today.

0:41 How how did I get I knew that. I just had a funny feeling. I don't know why. Well, there are a lot of clues around the house. We've had a lot of conversations about it. About eighty percent of our listeners I believe come from the US, right, And what is our number two country Australia. Australia. I love you Australia, we do. I don't know what's going on in Canada, our neighbors to the north, but Australia is our number two. Canada's number three, right, I think I think so? And then Great Britain is not far and Denmark is right up there too, So anyway, we love you all. But Australia, this one's for you. This is probably the most requested case we've gotten from our Australian listeners, and it's a heartbreaker, is it Okay? Did you know that Australia and the United States are almost the same size?

1:30 I did not know that. I know, I am really bad at geography. Of a bunch of people that are probably listening to like, oh yeah, of course I knew that, but I am not a geography person. Australia is approximately seven point seven million square kilometers or almost three million square miles, and the contiguous United States is approximately eight point one million square kilometers or three point one two million square miles, so pretty similar. Yeah. To put it in perspective, traveling from Sydney to Perth, East coast to west coast is about the same as traveling from New York to Los Angeles. It's crazy. And there's like nothing in the middle of the country either. Right, I think there's a lot of the middle of the country.

2:10 I've heard there's not much. I mean, yeah, but not a whole lot of people. Or I think most people live along the coastline. Yeah, yeah, beautiful country. I kind of jumped right ahead there. How are you. I'm doing pretty good. How are you? For a while since we've recorded, we're probably a little rusty. I know that we're ever not rusty, but I know. But we might be rustier than usual. I'm doing good. I was in New York all weeks. I'm a little it got back late late last night, you did, so, I'm a little tired, But I'm feeling. Did a little true criming when you were in. There was There was a true crime that happened while I was in New York just a few miles from my hotel. The CEO of United Healthcare got gunned down right on the street, which was crazy. It was probably like it wasn't right near my hotel, but it was not that.

2:55 Far so you said three miles, which in New York, you might as well, you know, have been in Colorado, right. Yeah, exactly. But I was on the lookout for the guy, but didn't. I never saw him. I saw a guy that I thought looked like him. You did send me the airport, Yes, I'm sure, I mean it could have been him. I did hear today that he likely left New York. Yes, I'm sure he probably did. I'm just really surprised how this story has taken over the meat. Yeah. Yeah, it's a huge story. And when most people are asked to name iconic Australian and New Zealand snacks, they head straight for the Tim TAM's vegetpile, guilty Pavlova. I didn't know that was Australian, but I would love to make up pavlova sometimes, well you'll find out maybe someday, or meat pie with tomato sauce.

3:42 But the food most proudly boasted is one that you may not have heard of before. The an zach biscuit or Vicki's and Australian and New Zealand an zack biscuits are perhaps the most beloved, perfect for storing and decorative tins or dunking into a hot cup of tea. I've never heard of those. A lot of our Australian listeners who request it. You have requested cases, say you have to make this. If you do it a case from Australia. So you happily made them for you. While made with simple ingredients, anzac biscuits are a symbol of national pride and great cultural significance. Each bite embodies more than one hundred years of history and connects many Australians and New Zealanders to their childhood and the past. There are many variations of the anzac biscuit.

4:29 They all share the deep golden color and distinct caramelized flavor of Flyells golden syrup, a viscous, sticky, amber colored syrup that holds the Guinness Book World Record for having the oldest branding and packaging in. The world Wow Okay. The word Anzac is an acronym for Australian and New Zealand army corps formed during World War One. Basic army rations included rice, tin, corn, beef, and an unpalatable hard tack biscuit so difficul could to eat. They were described as one of the most durable materials used in war, reputed to be bulletproof. In an effort to boost morale, wives and women's groups sent troops care packages containing Anzac biscuits.

5:13 Although the original recipe evolved over time, the biscuits were made of essential pantry ingredients, and because they were bound by golden syrup rather than eggs, which were scarce as poultry farmers left to fight overseas, they were hardy enough to survive the two to three month journey to soldiers. The Department of Veteran Affairs has declared that calling an Anzac biscuit a cookie is una Australian. Australians and New Zealanders have argued for decades of where whether Anzac biscuits should be chewy or crunchy. Many bakers alter the recipe by adding lemon, zest raisins or nuts, but purists look down on this practice. I was very tempted to add white chocolate chips, but I did not. You're trying to be a purist, so I don't want to get arrested.

5:56 So do Australians like them one way and New Zealanders like them a different way? I don't know. I don't know. I think most people like them hard, okay, because that's how the soldiers ate them. In Australia and New Zealand, April twenty fifth is a day of Remembrance to commemorate and honor the ANZACs and all service people who served and died in wars, conflicts or peacekeeping operations. Although a day of remembrance, both countries also celebrate the camaraderie of the ANZACs. Stories of their bravery, humor, and ingenuity and endurance left a powerful legacy, and Anzac biscuits, a small token of gratitudes sent from home, became a national symbol of their courageous Anzac spirit. Congratulations, emotions, crying, I'm such a baby. Oh my gosh, that's okay. Lest we forget was how I was supposed to done that?

6:49 So I did bring you some Anzac. Business I'm looking for looking forward to try. Do you want to play the little songs? Sure? I mean you inspired me because you've been doing such a good job. So I kind of raised the steakes a little bit. All right, Going to bake my dad some man Zach biscuits, sending them to the Gonna bake my dad some man Zack biscuits, make sure that he comes home. Gonna make enough for my sister, Gonna bake enough for my mom, Gonna bake enough for the next door name, but who lost both his sons.

7:47 All right, you have eaten the Anzac biscuit. What do you bicky? What do you think? I love it, really good good, that's what's called a cookie. But it tastes do not take a bath. It tastes like a really good cookie. Oh, I'm not sure what kind of cookie. It tastes sort of like a I thought the same thing. It's such a unique taste. Yeah, it almost tastes like a butter scotch like thing, but there's not butter scotch, so it's not that. But it's got the same sort of texture. Yeah, I kind of like I didn't brown the butter, but it had kind of a brown butter taste. The Lyles Golden syrup it's kind of like a corn syrup. And I did get that from Amazon. And yeah, it's a really good cookie.

8:28 I love it. I'm giving it ten out of ten? Are you really? I think I would give it a ten out of ten too. I did do a little modification. Do you want to say what I did? You want to get arrested. You made it into a like a sandwich biscuit with a little frosting in between. I guess some. We had some leftover frosting from your birthday cake, so I just took some. That was nice. I thought it was a good. It's a good touchtoo. Yeah, they were delicious. Yeah. I still brought you some clementines, but you didn't touch them. No, I'm fine. With the Bickie Well, thank you for indulging us with our long intro there. We are trying to keep them to five minutes or less, but you inspired me with your whoopee pie songs. I do feel I do feel more educated, so I do like to learn things, so thank you for that.

9:11 Today's episode discusses sensitive topics including domestic violence, grooming, and the sexual abuse of minors. These subjects may be distressing for some listeners, so please listen with care. Before we get started, I need to give credit to the sources I used in creating this episode. The telling of Lynn Dawson's story would not have been possible without the work of Headley Thomas and the Teacher's Pet podcast. I listened to the podcast. I read Headley's book of the same name. I also read Rebecca Hazel's book The Teacher, the Schoolgirl and his wife. Rebecca and Hedley were friends and collaborators. I read the sample of Chanelle Dawson's book My Mother's Eyes.

9:51 The part of her book that I read was beautifully written and a lovely tribute to her mother Lynn. Out of those books, I believe that Rebecca hazelbook was probably my favorite. On Jeduary ninth, nineteen eighty two in Sydney, Australia. Lynn Dawson, a thirty three year old nurse wife and mum of two, disappeared without a trace. Lynn and her husband, Chris Dawson, a former rugby star, had recently gone through a rough patch in their marriage. To put it mildly, Chris, a high school pe teacher, had run away two days before Christmas with his sixteen year old students. Lynn was heartbroken, but put on a brave face for her two young daughters, who were her whole world. Chris returned home days later and refused to talk about the situation. Lynn pleaded with Chris to save their marriage. He agreed to go to marriage counseling. Lynn's friends and family were surprised by his sudden willingness to get help to improve their faltering relationship.

10:49 After their first therapy session, Chris drove Lynn back to the daycare where she worked as a school nurse. Lynn's coworkers were shocked to see the couple hand in hand smiling. They knew the depth of Chris's infidelity. It was the last time anyone saw Lynn alive. Lynette Joy Simms was born on September twenty eighth, nineteen forty eight, to Helena and Len Sims, in a small town outside of Sydney, set along the northern beaches of New South Wales. New South Wales is the most populous state of Australia. The largest city is Sydney, the capital of New South Wales. Len Sims served in the Navy before he became a math teacher at South Sydney Boys High School. Helena was a homemaker then grew up in a small home in Clovelli with her three siblings, two brothers and one sister, Philip, Patricia, Lunette, and Greg. Lynn and her sister pat were very close.

11:42 The four Sims children were all towheaded water babies. Oh are you laughing, toad? You don't know what toehead it means. It means blonde. Oh really, yeah, she gets up to people though. I have no idea. I think people know. Really, I never heard that phrase before. It just sounds funny to me. I'm teaching all sorts of things today. They lived steps from the ocean and they were an active bunch. The Sims loved to swim year round and take long hikes. It sounds like an idyllic childhood. However, Len Sims was stern, moody and controlling. He often drank too much. He was the disciplinarian in the family. The children were often afraid of him, as were his students. Although soft spoken, Lynn was the most likely of the four children to stand up to her father. She hated to see injustice, but in general, the four Sims children, blonde, fit, and sun kissed, had a good childhood. The family walked or took the bus everywhere. They didn't own a car. Lynn did buy a car once, but when a friend was teaching him to drive, he crashed it and he never drove again.

12:50 Lynn never learned to drive either. Lynn was described as kind, generous, and loyal by all who knew her. A natural caregiver, nursing was an ideal career choice. She was organized and loved to plan parties. At the time of her disappearance, she was planning a surprise party for her mother, Helena. She was the glue in her family. Her sister pat said quote Lynne was a lovely, lovely person. She was gentle, caring, calm, and funny. Christopher Michael Dawson was born two months before his future wife on July twenty sixth, nineteen forty eight, in Sydney, Australia, to Joan and Sidney Dawson. The Dawsons had five children, Peter, Gary, Linnell, Paul, and Chris. Chris is the youngest of five siblings, but only by minutes.

13:33 He and his brother Paul are identical twins. Twins, especially identical twins, share a special bond that is hard to understand unless you are a twin. But Chris and Paul were so close at times it seemed that they were two halves made only whole when they were together. They were so intertwined. As small children, they developed a language unique to themselves. They had to attend speech therapy to learn to communicate with others. This is actually common in twins. It's called cryptophasia. It's defined as a language developed by twins that only they can understand. Interesting. I have never heard of that either. I'm learning so. Much to Joan. Their mother loved the twinies, as she called them. She was so proud of her handsome athletic sons and doated on them, especially Chris. I'm not sure which twin it was, but one of them was at a rugby match and they took the driving test for the other twins.

14:25 Oh really. Lynn and Chris met when they were sixteen. Lynn went to Sydney Girls High School and Chris to Sydney Boys. They were both prefects at their respective schools. I hate to ask again another question. What is a prefect? I really really know you don't know either. I think it's like maybe like what we would refer to as student council. It's like students that are model students for others. I believe that's the case. Okay. They met at a ants and quickly became a couple. Chris was the only boy that Lynn ever loved or dated.

15:05 Chris got along well with Lynn's family, Helena, Lynn's mother especially loved Chris. They were an attractive, happy, and affectionate couple, always well dressed and perfectly groomed. They married on March twenty sixth, nineteen seventy, when they were both twenty one. Paul, Chris's twin, had married his wife Marilyn a year earlier. The two couples shared an apartment until they later built houses. Lynn studied to become a nurse, while Chris focused on his athletic career. Chris and Paul both played rugby for the Newtown Jets from nineteen seventy two to nineteen seventy seven. They played rugby union before switching to rugby league. Can you explain the difference between rugby you did to your Australian listeners. Please forgive us for what we were about to do, because I know you all probably know and love rugby and I will tried my best.

15:57 Let me explain, great Tina. Leagues are often both referred to simply as rugby, but there are forms of football in Australia and New Zealand. They may be called football or footy. The key difference is between rugby league and rugby union are the number of players. Rugby league has thirteen players per side, while rugby union has fifteen. Different rules on tackles, possessions and scoring. League is generally faster paced and less complex, while union focuses more on strategy and set piece play. Rugby league is referred to as footy in New South Wales and Queensland, where it's more popular. I'm gonna have to do some googling here because I know I have a friend who is Australian, Dave and he's really into Australian rules football.

16:43 I didn't use him as a source, but I didn't And. I thought Australian rules football was called footy. But that's different than rugby. So on their soccer so I so it's too confusing. It wasn't really the most important part of this case. Okay, all right, Well let's just believe or not. Chris was the less skilled of the twins. Several people said that Paul insisted to coaches that he and Chris were a package deal. Without Paul, Chris may not have had a professional career. A former coach of the twins said that despite their exceptionally close bond, the brothers didn't play well together, which ultimately led to Chris being cut from the team. After Chris's career fell apart, Paul left rugby behind. Two after Chris and Paul's rugby careers ended, they both went to college to become high school pe teachers.

17:32 Chris became a teacher at Cromer High School and Paul at Forest High School, only a few miles apart. You asked me off air, if everyone knows what pe teacher means. In case people don't, it means physical education. Yeah, did you refer to your gym teacher as a PE teacher or what? I think we just call it a gym teacher. Okay, I think we said pe, but maybe I'm wrong. Marilyn and Paul had three daughters in quick succession. Before Lynn and Chris had conceived any children. A doctor once told Lynn she wouldn't be able to have children. After failing to conceive for six years. Lynn had a procedure to clear a blocked fillopian tube, but she didn't think it had worked. She and Chris had begun the application process for adoption when she realized that she was in fact pregnant. Chanelle was born on July ninth, nineteen seventy seven via C section, and Sharon or Sherry two years and two days later. Lynn adored her girls. Her entire world revolved around them. After Chanelle was born, Lynn and Chris were thrilled to be parents, but soon he pestered her about the pregnancy weight she had gained. Being a former athlete and competitive with his twin, he was in top condition. It made Lynn feel insecure, despite loving her new role as a mother. I will just give some advice to any husbands out there. Whose wives have recently had a baby.

18:54 Two listeners. Yes, do not criticize her for not taking off the pregnancy weight. So don't do it. It's so so hard. Actually, if you notice anyone has gained a couple of pounds, you don't need to say anything. They know. In nineteen seventy five, with a generous eight thousand dollars loan from Helena and Lynn, Lynn and Chris bought a plot of land in Bayview, New South Wales, near Sydney's northern beaches, for thirty one thousand dollars and began building their dream house at two Kilwinga Drive. The home cost them about seventy thousand dollars to build. The area was mostly undeveloped and surrounded by bush. The Dawson's land was exceptionally rocky and on a steep incline. The house, a sprawling brick ranch, turned out beautifully. Many people called Lynn House Proud. She had a knack for design and created a stunning, warm and comfortable home. Paul and Maryland bought a plot of land just two lots away and built their own home. Lynn loved their house, but she was nervous about living in a remote area. Surrounded by bush without transportation. Chris was supposed to teach her how to drive, but he ever did. Lynn had always lived in a city with good public transportation, so not having a driver's license hadn't been an issue. Neither of her parents drove either, and in the coming years, Lynn would often feel isolated from her family and she missed them.

20:15 In nineteen seventy five, when they were twenty seven, Chris and Paul, along with Lynn and Marilyn, appeared on a weekly television program on the ABC network called Checkerboard. The episode was about twins. Because Lynn went missing years before most families had video recorders, her family had no video of her. Her brother Greg contacted ABC in hopes of getting a copy of the episode so they could see Lynn and hear her voice again. He was told that it was unlikely that ABC still had the video, but months later, Greg was contacted by ABC just before Christmas informing him that they'd found the video. Other than having Lynn back with them, it was the best possible gift.

20:55 Greg and Lynn's families were very grateful and emotional to be able to share the video with her daughters, who had no real memories of her. In the video. Lynn comes to life with her quiet beauty, sparkling eyes, warm smile, and soothing voice. Do you ever. Resent that very close relationship between the first question that people asked and no, you must have a lot of fun swapping and changing. Around and they've never done it. I think they've been accused of doing it on the football field. Somebody a couple of years ago said what is it like sharing a husband? And to me it was just seems so silly because that hadn't put any thought it and you just john in.

21:39 I'll try to post a small snippet of that video. But she's just so lovely and well spoken, and she looks a little like Princess Diana. She has that kind of sweet demrror. It's funny because I was going to say her voice reminded me, and it was an Australian accent, but it reminded me a little bit and just that soft, sort of really sweet. I always like to hear people voices and I'm gonna get emotional now, but she just seemed like such a lovely woman. The twins appeared charming and affable in the video in a well polished routine. Paul joked about being the oldest twin. He said, quote Chris was too stupid to find his way out by himself. Chris quickly retorted, I always say he was so stupid I had to push him out first.

22:21 That's pretty, that's pretty adorable. That is the last time in this episode that you will find the twins adorable. I'm sure that is true. Yes. Joanne Carlson was in year ten of high school when she caught the eye of Chris Dawson in nineteen seventy nine, his first year teaching at Cromer High School. The next year, he made sure that she was in one of his pe classes. Joanne was a smart, pretty girl with a troubled home life. After her parents' divorce, her mother married a man who was physically in verbally abusive to her, causing Joanne great to stress. Embarrassed by her situation, she didn't feel comfortable talking to her friends about her dysfunctional home life. Chris always gave her attention and seemed to take a genuine interest in her personal life. She began to confide in him. Soon he asked her if she could babiesit his daughter's Chanel three and share in one.

23:10 Joanne enjoyed spending time with the young girls and developed a friendship with Lynn too. It became a weekly routine, even if Lynn and Chris had no plans to go out. Chris would pick Joanne up on Saturday afternoon and she would spend the night at the house on Gilwinga Drive, and then he would drive her home on Sunday afternoon. Joanne also became familiar with Paul, Marilyn and their children. Chris even took Joanne out for driving lessons. Remember he'd always promise to teach Lynn how to drive, but he'd never gotten around to it. During one of these driving lessons, Chris told Joanne he had feelings for her and kissed the sixteen year old girl for the first time. In New South Wales, the age of consent was sixteen, but it was still a criminal offense for a teacher to become involved with a student under the carnal knowledge law.

23:57 Carnal knowledge is an old fashioned term basically means sexual intercourse. When Chris's parents were away, he took Joanne to their house and had sex for the first time. At home, the tension between Joanne and her stepfather escalated. He began pushing her around too. When she tried to protect her mother, Joanne's father photographed her bruised face and took her to the police station to file the report against the stepfather, but the police didn't intervene. Joanne was close with her father and he wanted her to move in with him, but he lived too far from Cromer High School and she didn't want to transfer. But when his ex wife called to tell him that their daughter was having an affair with her teacher, he was furious and told her how wrong the situation was. Chris was wrong for taking advantage of her, and she was wrong for coming between a married couple. He warned her that he would cut ties with her if she continued the relationship, but she was so blinded by what she thought was love she didn't care. They were estranged for several years. Chris and Lynn allowed Joanne to move into their house in October nineteen eighty one. They were used to having her around anyway.

25:05 Chris was consumed with Joanne. He risked everything to be with her, his marriage, his family, reputation, and career. Lynn, his children in the community, held Chris on a pedestal. He had so much to lose but he was so utterly obsessed he couldn't help himself. He repeatedly asked Joanne to marry him and remember Joanne's at sixteen and still in high school. At first, Lynne felt empathy for the wayward girl. Lynn's friends warned her that it wasn't right and she was asking for trouble having the schoolgirl live with them. One day, Lynn returned home after work and found Joanne topless in the pool when she was supposed to be watching Chanel and Sharon. At Kromer High School, the affair between Joanne and Chris was common knowledge. The student's staff and even some of the parents knew. Sadly, everyone but Lynn knew they were openly a couple. At Chromer High Joanne would often be seen city on Chris's lap.

26:01 He would write her a past to leave class, and they would have sex in the storeroom. Joanne's grades began to falter. Like the the expression on my face right now, I'm like, how is he not like fired for this? Like how it just this is mind boggling. It definitely is. A former student said they were hidden in plain sight. He was even her date to the formal dance. God not one adult at Chromer High intervened. Wow. One day, Lynn wasn't feeling well and left work early. She arrived home in a taxi and found Joanne and Chris together in their bed, but I must have been clothed. Lynn paid a visit to Joanne's mother, Margot, and asked her if she thought the relationship was sexual. Margo said she didn't think so. During this time, Lynn's friends at coworkers said that she became depressed and she took less care in her appearance. Her usually meticulous house wasn't as tidy, and all the plants that she'd lovingly care for had died.

27:00 When Chris had a surgical procedure on his nose at the hospital, he explicitly told Lynne not to visit him, but Helena, Lynne's mom, who adored Chris, went to see him and found Joanne in his hospital bed. She called Lynn and told her that she needed to do something to save her marriage before it was too late. In October nineteen eighty one, Lynne confronted Joanne. She said, quote, I understand that you've been taking liberties with my husband. The truth was so hurtful to Lyne that she couldn't say the appropriate words. She didn't yell. She just told Joanne that she needed to leave. Joanne was too embarrassed to utter a word. She never spoke to Lynn again. In fact, after Lynne went to bed, Joanne gathered her belongings and left. She walked down the road to paul In Marilyn's house. She moved in with them, unbeknownst to Lynn.

27:47 Marilyn wasn't happy about their new room mate, but she knew that she didn't have much choice in the matter. Chris put a five hundred dollar deposit on an apartment. He planned to leave Lynn and the girls to start a new life with Joanne, until his older brother, Peter, an attorney, told him he'd lose his house if he left. Years later, during a coroner's inquest, Joanne recounted a drive she and Chris took to a remote location. She couldn't remember exactly where they went, but she said it looked like a hotel. Chris told her to stand the car. When he came back, he told Joanne that he decided to hire a hitman to kill Lynnette, but he changed his mind because quote too many people would get hurt. She remembered thinking at the time that he was such a good person because he changed his mind. Chris was a really frugal guy, so I think he could have just said, you know what, this is too much money.

28:36 I'll just do it myself. On December twenty first, nineteen eighty one, Chris approached Lynn with a real estate contract in his hand, and he demanded she sign it. He wanted to sell their home for two hundred and eighty thousand dollars. Lynn loved her home and she was very proud of what she and Chris had built together. She refused to sign the contract and he angrily stormed out of the house. We'll be bad after a break. On December twenty third, nineteen eighty one, Chris walked out on Lynn, Chanel and Sharon. He was supposed to pick Lynn up from work that day. She'd gone Christmas shopping and had a lot of packages. After an hour of waiting, she called Paul and asked where Chris was. He said he didn't know, but by that time Chris and Joanne, freshly graduated from high school, had taken the family car and were driving towards Queensland to start their new life.

29:34 Together and Australia, the school year is different than it is here in the United States. We start in late August or September and we go into like May. In Australia, I think the school year starts in January or February and it goes. They have more breaks throughout the year and it ends in December. Okay, so she had just graduated from high school. Gotcha? Lynn arrived home by taxi to find Chris had packed all of his belongings and left behind a note on their bed that said he was leaving her quote don't paint too black a picture of me to the girls. He wrote he was in love with Joanne and wanted to spend the rest of his life with her, well as long as she didn't age or gain a pound.

30:17 Despite Lynde's broken heart, she gave each daughter a kiss that she said was from their dad and told them that he had to go away on a sudden holiday. She had wanted to buy a playhouse for the girls for Christmas. With Chris gone, she didn't have enough money to buy the house or a way to transport it home. That hurt really made me mad. I know, well, yeah, the fact that she isn't able to drive, and their house is out in the bush also, and he just left her. After driving through the night nearly to Queensland, Joanne began to regret her decision to leave and begged Chris to turn around and head back to Bayview. She was so anxious that her skin broke out in hives. They drove to Paul and Marylyn's house and in a closet while the rest of their family spent Christmas together, So just to be as sure, I understand.

31:05 So Paul and Marilyn knew that they were there, but they hid in the closet. Why I hid in the closet while the little girls were opening their Christmas present and Lynn was over. I think Lynn might have been there at some point. Okay, yes, but they were hiding from the children because they didn't want the children to tell anyone. Oh, uncle Chris is here with some Actually they would have known, Joanne, so yeah, okay. The next night they slept in the high school gymnasium on the mats where they used to have sex during school hours. While Joanne tried to sleep, she had the realization that this wasn't the life that she wanted for herself. Why was she sleeping on the gymnasium floor when Chris could afford a hotel. She decided to break things off with Chris for good. The following morning, Chris dropped her off at her mother's house. He threw her bags out of his car onto the curb. Days later, Joanne found life with her mother and stepfather untenable, so she moved in with her sister. Joanne seventeen, was unmoored. She had no good options. Trauma met her at every turn. She regretted becoming involved with Chris, a man twice her age, and her part in breaking up a family. When she tried to break up with Chris, he wouldn't let her.

32:16 He said he'd die if she left him. He returned home to Lynne, but he was sullen and short tempered with her. Lynn was so worried about Chris's angry outbursts that she had made him an appointment with a doctor, as if there was a medical reason. He was so quick tempered. So that's how sweet Lynne is. She's not like, snap out of it. Why are you being such an a hole? Yeah, she was like, oh, there must be a medical reason for this. Ah, that's really sad. We can get you better, Chris. On New Year's Eve, he told Lynn he was going to a yacht party. She asked if she and the girls could go with them, because they had had such a sad Christmas, and he said no, there was room for only him. Lynne bargained with him and said that she and the girls could stay ashore and watch the ships come in. He again said no, he was meeting up with Joanne, of course. On New Year's Day nineteen eighty two, Joanne left on a trip with her sister and some friends to celebrate graduation and to clear her head.

33:11 They went camping at Southwest Rocks, about five hours away. Chris made her promise she would call him every day, which she did. He told her how much he missed her and he couldn't live without her, but Joanne was enjoying her freedom. Lynn implored Chris to go to marriage counseling with her. Surprisingly, he agreed. She made an appointment for January eighth, nineteen eighty two. Chris drove Lynn back to the childcare center after their therapy session. Lynn's co workers were surprised to see the couple smiling and lovingly holding hands, Chris really showed affection to his wife. Later, after Chris left, Lyne's friends noted that she seemed happy and determined that her marriage could be saved. They noticed bruising on Lynn's neck. She said that in the elevator on their way up to the therapist's office, Chris had throttled her and said, if this doesn't work, I'm getting rid of you. She tried to play it off as a joke, but her friends were alarmed for her safety. The last confirmation of someone other than Chris speaking to Lynn came from her mother, Helena. She called the house on Gowinga Drive at about eight thirty pm on January eighth. Chris answered the phone. He didn't want to put Lynn on the line until Helena insisted. She recalled that her daughter sounded very sleepy and intoxicated on the phone call. She said the word sozzled actually, which I think is a great word. That is a great word, Lynn said, quote Chris has made me a lovely drink.

34:34 Lynn normally wasn't a drinker, but after Joanne had moved in, Chris began slipping sedatives into her drinks. In the evening. She would not off and Chris could spend time alone with Joanne, but that night Joanne wasn't at the Dawson's house. She hadn't been there since her confrontation with Lynn in October. While she was on the phone with her mother, Lynne told Helena that she and Chris had gone to marriage counseling earlier in the day and their marriage was back on track. Helene, it was very happy to hear this news. Helena and Lynn made plans to meet up the next day at the Northridge Baths for a day of swimming in sun with the girls while Chris worked his shift, but Lynn never showed up. Lynn was likely killed somewhere between nine pm on January eighth, nineteen eighty two and eight am on January ninth. Chris possibly hired a hit man to kill her and dispose of her body.

35:25 You said earlier you thought he may have been too frugal to hire a hit man. I guess we just don't know. Right, I'm saying it's just a possibility. Yeah, I don't think he did, but it's a possibility. When Chris saw Helena the next day at the Baths around two pm, where he and Paul worked part time as lifeguards or life savers if you're in Australia. He asked her if she'd seen Lynn. Around three pm, Chris was called away to take a phone call. He later told Helena that the call had been from Lynn. She told him that she needed to get her head together and was taking a break from their marriage for a few days on the Central Coast. Helena was confused what could have transpired between the hours that she had last talked to her daughter, when she was in good spirits, to provoke her to suddenly want to take a break from her marriage. Chris said he dropped Lyn off at the Mona Vail bus stop around seven am to go to the shops in Chatswood to make some after Christmas returns. Let's talk for a second about why this doesn't make sense. They have two young girls ages two and four. He's driving her to the bus stop at seven am, so he would have to get the two girls like ready and changed his shift at the baths started at nine am, and the baths wherever the baths were it was it would have been shorter for him to like drive her to the Chatswood shops rather than for her to take the bus.

36:48 If she would have taken the bus, she would have had to have a transfer took and then she would have gotten to the shops at about the same time that she would have gotten there if Chris had driven her. And what shops or open it? Seven? Ye I was going to ask you that that doesn't make sense either. Chanelle four and Sharon two never saw their mom again. On his next call with Joanne, remember she is off camping and she's calling him from a payphone, Chris asked her to move in and help with his girls. He said that Lynn was gone and not coming back. She had joined a religious group that had come to their house in December. She said that she was staying in the Blue Mountains in western Sydney. Joanne agreed to move into Lynn's house on Gilwinga Drive. So at this point Joanne had pretty much decided that she was going to break up with Chris, but she must have had some empathy for the situation, okay. On January tenth, Chris drove through the night to pick up Joanne from her camping trip at Southwest Rocks, about one thousand kilometers away. Joanne moved into the house with Chris and the girls. The same house that Lynn had kicked her out of two months earlier. She shared the bed that Chris had shared with Lynn only a few days before. Lynne's drawers were still full of her belongings. Joanne stripp Lynn's closet and drawers of her belongings. She retained some of Lynd's things for herself and put the rest in trash bags.

38:08 Okay, so just to be clear, it's been two days since Lynn allegedly, maybe. Three, maybe four, but you know, maximum four. We're not sure of the exact right. But regardless, it's a two or three days after she has supposedly left him to join some religious group, and his seventeen year old girlfriend is moving. In maybe sixteen. I'm not sure when her birthday is, but she's either sixty yes, yeah. Taking her place and moving into their house, sleeping in Lynn's bed with her husband and throwing her stuff in the trash. That's crazy. Days later, Chris called Helena and told her that he had again heard from Lynn. She told him that she needed more time away. He said, quote, how much more bloody time do you need? I have a question for you off top bloody, Like, what is the equivalent of bloody in a American English. Is it the F word?

39:03 I guess yeah, probably. I'm sorry, I've always wondered that because it seems like it's used so commonly. Yeah, it doesn't seem like as bad as the F word. Well, Lynn allegedly said she wouldn't come home if he spoke to her like that. Chris told Lynn that she needed to contact her mother, and she said she would. He asked her to come home. He said we all needed her. She said, I can't. We all need you, even though I've got my girlfriend here living. With us now and she's going to have to kick her out of the bed. It's going to be awkward if you come home. This guy, Helena and Lynn had talked on the phone every day, some day, some days, multiple times a day. Lynn was planning a surprise party for her, and she'd even had a special She was having a dressmaker make a special blouse for her. She would not left her family or her friends wondering about her states.

39:53 You mentioned she wouldn't have left her two children behind. Her closest friends worked at the childcare center with her where she was the and I believe that the child care center couldn't run unless a nurse was there and for no other reason. Oh yeah, she would have felt the responsibility and she. Loved her coworkers. She just would not have left on her own volition. The administrator at Chromer High put pressure on Chris to resign when the gossip about his and Joann's relationship reached a fever pitch. Bev Bellkind replaced Chris Dawson as physical education teacher after he left Kromer High. One of the classes was for children with special needs. They told the new teacher that they didn't need her to stay with them during their scheduled class. They explained that mister Dawson always left them and went into the store room with Joanne during their gym time. Chris transferred from Chromer High School to Beacon High School. His reputation preceded him. Everyone at the new high school knew that he was living with the teenager. In February eighteenth, nineteen eighty two, six weeks after Lynn had gone missing, Chris finally went to the police, and then only because Helena had insisted. He went to the Mona Vale Police station to file a missing person's report. He reported Lynn's disappearance date as January fifteenth, although he'd last seen her on January ninth. At the time, Chris said that she'd used her bank card twice, once January twelfth and once on January twenty sixth, both times at a clothing store. He claimed that she'd called him on January fifteenth, a week

41:23 after the first call he'd received at the baths, then told Chris that she wasn't returning and she needed more time, and that was allegedly the last time that he heard from Lynn. Chris placed a two line advertisement in the Daily Telegraph on March twenty seventh, nineteen eighty two, which said quote Lynn, I love you. We all miss you. Please ring we want you home Chris. Chris never followed up with law enforcement to see if there was any new information in Lyne's investigation, and he never called Lynn's family or friends to ask if they'd heard from her. The Simms family was not able to get information about the investigation. Only Chris could. Lynn's brother, Greg was a police officer, and he wasn't even able to receive information about the case. After Chris was remarried years later, Helene became the point of contact in the investigation.

42:13 So that's like a law that you can only the police can only provide information to the spouse as like the next of kin or something like that. I'm not sure if that's the law, but that was the case in this situation. Okay, that's really weird, especially if the husband is probably the one who did something to make or disappear. Well, and Greg was a police officer and he said he couldn't even get information, and years later that was actually used against him. They were like, well, you're a police officer, you could have gotten the information. Yeah, that's too bad. Years later, in a police report written for the New South Wales Police Department, Joanne wrote about Lynn quote, she was a devoted mother, especially with the older child Chanel. She was an affectionate wife and obviously in love with Chris. She loved her house and had a real talent for interior design in making the place look great. She was house proud and paid detailed attention as to how the place looked. She was a nursing sister with high qualifications, but only worked part time at the Warrywoods Square Occasional Care Center. Lynn appeared close to her mother and visited her quite often. All these activities kept Lynn fully occupied especially as their house had only been built in nineteen seventy six. In contrast to Lynn being devoted to Chris, Chris's attitude to Lynn appeared very cool. When Lynn tried to hug him, he would recoil away and shrug her off. He would sing songs with hurtful lyrics or double meanings in order to antagonize her.

43:42 He did not appear to have any warmth towards her. Lynn obviously adored Chris right to the time she went missing. She did not appear to blame Chris for our relationship. So seventeen year old Joanne slid into her new role as surrogate wife and mom to Chris and his daughters, exactly the life that every teenager dreams of. But she thought she was madly in love with Chris Dawson. She wasn't looking for any information to contradict what Chris had said about Lynn abandoning her family, but she couldn't help but notice a few things were strange. Lynne's closet and drawers were full of her belongings. Nothing was missing, not even her jewelry minus her wedding and engagement rings. She noticed some fresh pavers had been installed around the pool.

44:27 One night, the phone rang and Chris answered it. Later, he said Lynn had called and told him that she was with friends and she was fine. Although Joanne had babysat Chanel and Sharon, she didn't know how to care for two young children full time, how to cook or keep house. Joanne's own mother hadn't been much of a caregiver or cook. They took to eating packaged meals. Chris asked Marilyn to come over to teach Joanne how to cook, but she had no interest in domestic pursuits. She resented looking after Chanel and Sharon and frequently asked Chris when Lynn was going to return for her girls. I can't even imagine you're seventeen years old and you're put in this situation, Like, yeah, she must have been very resentful, she.

45:10 Said something of it, like she hadn't She literally had no idea how to cook. Yeah, and she didn't even know how to make mashed potatoes. And she was like looking she like at dinner time every night, she would get nervous because everyone was staring at her, and she's like, I just don't know. She didn't know what to do. One afternoon, while Joanne was picking up the girls from school. Helena was at the school waiting with gifts for the children. She hadn't seen her granddaughters in a long time and missed them greatly. She had lost her daughter and she didn't want to lose Chanelle and Sharon too. Joanne rushed them off and wouldn't allow them to speak to their grandmother. It developed into quite a scene. Helena yelled at Joanne and called her a little slut. Shortly after, Helena sent a letter to Chris. Dear Chris, it grieves and saddens me that you would issue an edict that should I come to the school, I was not to see my grandchildren.

46:03 It would seem that you have achieved what you have set out to do, rid yourself of Lynn, to whom you said, I don't love you anymore. I hate you, and I have no feeling for you, and I don't want to be married to Lynn anymore. And that's enough to break anyone's spirit. I've never condoned mothers leaving their children. I don't know how they could, but by the same token, I do not condone a father either, who takes off instead of facing up to the problem. You've wielded the big stick and cut me out of yours and Lynn's children's lives. I love my granddaughters, and don't you ever tell them differently, Chris. Now they are lost to me as well as to their pretend mother. The burden is great. Poor Helena. Yeah, she was devastated by the loss of live Oh of.

46:47 Course, Yeah, that's terrible. Chris and Paul were identical twins and had always been close, but to many, their relationship seemed strangely close. Even to other twins, they never seemed to form their their own identities. Peter and Gary were the two older Dawson brothers. The four brothers all enjoyed a close relationship, but the twins were the little princes of the family. Their mother doated on them, especially Chris. The twins did everything together when they were young. In school, their teacher noticed that they always answered test questions the same, thinking that the twins were cheating. They were separated, but they still answered the same. One time, when they were nine or ten, they went shopping separately but came home with the same shirts.

47:31 Twins are fascinating to me the same. Yeah, I love the stories of like twins that got separated at birth and yet still end up like. That's a psychologist stream, you know that. Yeah, very interesting, really interesting. They always wanted to be together. They had always played on the same sports teams, attended the same university, earned the same degree, and were pe teachers at the same school. They were neighbors. They built houses in Bayview, only two hundred meters from each other. They both owned Dalmatians from the same litter, and even drove the same make, model, and color car. Wow. They injured the same knee around the same time and both required surgery. Paul was the dominant brother. He was smarter and more in control than Chris.

48:17 He was often the mastermind and Chris followed his lead. Paul was more extroverted than Chris and often spoke for both of them. They were fiercely loyal to each other. Friends referred to them as cranky Chris and passive Paul. The twins were off putting for many even as adults. They dressed alike down to their shoes and socks. They'd share a coke every day. They were most comfortable in each other's company, to the point of excluding others. However, because of their good looks and athletic prowess. People were drawn to them. I will post tons of pictures, but they were exceptionally good looking, and looking at them today, he might be like, oh, you know, they look like they're from the night. I mean it's in the nineteen seven, he's in nineteen eighty, so from you look at that from that lens. Alleged.

49:03 As we post pictures, people just leave the funniest comments, right. But they were very good looking men, okay. The brothers worked a variety of odd jobs along with teaching and coaching. They modeled, taught tennis and aerobics, worked as lifeguards and garbage men. Side by side. They had a bank account they called the Twinies account, where they deposited their extra money, funneling it from their wives. Lynn was not given access to their joint bank account. Chris did not like her to have or spend money. Usually she only had a few dollars. She did open her own bank account in the months before her disappearance. Barbara Cruz, who managed the childcare center where Lynn worked, said that Lynn had asked her if she could forward her bank statements to her work address. She didn't give a reason, but Barbara knew that it must have something to do with Chris's controlling ways. Lynn was likely in the dark about Chris's behavior with the students. After he had gone swimming with some of his students at a private pool, a neighbor complained to the principle. When the principal questioned Chris, he denied everything. Lynn went to bat for her husband.

50:09 She told the principal, quote, I trust my husband implicitly. Our marriage is strong. There's no way he'd do anything like that unquote. So the complaints were just that it was inappropriate for him to be swimming with his students at a private pool. Yeah, but I think some of them probably were swimming swimming naked, and I believe that there may have been alcohol involved too. Okay. The brothers had so much in common. In fact, they were both adulterous pedophiles who groomed their high school students. Paul taught at Forest High School, not far from Cromer High where Chris taught. Paul was also in a grooming relationship with a student. The brothers talked about which girls they found the most attractive and wanted to target. When Chris and Paul were sent to teacher training for a week, Chris took Joanne, and Paul took the student he was involved with. For legal reasons, she has known as Alice in court documents. Alice thought she was in love with Paul, and he told her he loved her too. She was only fifteen and a half when the abusive relationship began.

51:11 Paul controlled her and forced her to have sex with other teachers and football players. Oh my god. On the twins' birthday, he made Alice have sex with Chris as his birthday gift. Sometimes both Chris and Paul had sex with her at the same time. Horn's yeah, it's this is shocking. Paul would write her notes to excuse her from class to have sex, she told police years later. Quote, Paul would organize for me to go to my place, which was close by, and he would organize with those teachers to come to my place at that time of day. My parents were not home. When those teachers arrived, I would perform for them. I consented only because I was told by Paul that there was nothing wrong with what I was doing. And Paul had told me frequently that he was in love with me, and I believed him.

51:59 Unquote one time, Alice was waiting at home alone for a carpet cleaner. Paul told her to strip in front of the man and perform oral sex on him. She complied she did whatever Paul asked of her, to her own peril. That poor girl, the poor old I know, it's very disturbing. As many as six teachers are believed to have been involved in the sexual abuse scandal with the young students. On a weeknight after a football game, Paul asked Alice to meet him in the gym. When she arrived, ten men were there. Paul told her to strip and have oral or vaginal sex with all of them. Paul's darkest fantasy was that he and Chris would be inside her at the same time, which she said happened once.

52:45 Paul abused Alice for years, even beyond her school years. Joanne once asked her if she would join her and Chris for a threesome for his birthday. And all these other men early going along with this too. That's also again, Yeah. It's beyond sick. And these poor women like they're you know, grown women now and this has stayed with them. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Here's an old friend talking about an incident that essentially ended his relationship with the twins. I used to have a hit of tennis with Chris and Paul Dawson. There was a very significant story. We'd been again playing tennis and we'd finished and Chris approached me and said to me, Paul and I were thinking of getting eight guys together and having a gang bang.

53:33 Would you be interested? I was. What the words I would use would be shocked and astounded. I politely said no, and that was about the last time I ever saw them. We'll be back after a break. A former student from Kromer High said quote, I knew it was going on, and many other people knew it was going on. Not just with Chris Dawson and Joan Carlson, it was going on with other teachers and students at the school. The culture at the school was such that there was a group of men, male teachers in their twenties and thirties who preyed on young girls at the school fifteen sixteen seventeen year old girls, usually not the year twelves. They were a little bit too old, and you would see them talking all the time when they were at sporting trips or school trips. For whatever reason, they would be in the teacher's cars. They would be babysitting for the teachers. I think Lynn's family deserves to know what happened to her, In particular, her two daughters need to know. He needs to be exposed. There's been too many people not wanting to talk about it because it's not the dumb thing. If it had been discussed more openly from the outset, lives wouldn't have been ruined and people would have answers to those questions now. In fact, the impacts of those relationships we're talking about thirty five years ago still exist and those girls are really quite damaged.

55:07 And in some cases the teachers left their wives and the first family of children and took off with the younger girls when they finished school. It's so crazy that like this was a whole thing in the school with so many people involved. I don't think it was just that school. I think was neighboring schools too. After that woman came forward, it gave other former students who had been sexually exploited courage to tell their stories too. This next bit is going to blow your mind. Former deputy headmaster from Cromer High, Hilton Mace, told Headley Thomas quote, there had been quite a few people saying to me that Paul and Chris Dawson both had bad reputations with schoolgirls. As a deputy of a school of thirteen hundred kids, you're not in a position to do any detective work on finding out what exactly is going on. I think Chris Dawson was very clever and covering up what he could, and I think, well Joanne probably the same, and she was probably infatuated with him. When asked about the students drinking with the teachers, he said, quote, I was told about it, But what can I do. I can't tell a grown up man not to go and have a drink in a pub.

56:13 I mean, your civil liberties are coming into it at a certain point. And if you're involved in a school, you're so busy you've got no chance of chasing up every member of staff who might be drinking or having some sort of school liaison with a student. So you know, it's easy to sit on the sidelines and say, oh, this should have been done, it shouldn't be allowed. God you believe that response. I'm just in charge of the school. I can't be expected to know. To my job. Oh my gosh, I'm not defending him, but I believe at the point of this interview he is into his nineties. So okay, I don't know if Wow. That deserves him getting grace or not, but yeah, that blew my mind. Chris was transferred to another school. A female pee teacher took his place, which we talked about a little earlier. So you might be asking yourself why didn't Lynn's family report her missing?

57:03 I was asking myself that. In fact, Lynn's sister Pat said that Chris was a beloved member of their family. They thought he was a good husband and father and wouldn't do anything that ever harm Lynn. She said quote, if we had thought Chris had done something, then there was no way Lynn was coming back. If she had left, we still had hope that she would come back. What else were we to believe? Your emotions sort of take over your rational thoughts. Mom just always wanted lind to come back, and we thought that perhaps she had a mental breakdown. That was the only possibility we thought could explain why she would leave all the things she loved so much. She was really affectionate, so warm, overly generous. She was funny and a little cheeky.

57:45 I think Chris was the center of her world. I think in hindsight, it's always easier in hindsight to look at these things and say, oh, they should have known that something was up. But I just think it's so hard to imagine, you know that if you know somebody, you know them all, why would they harm our sister or our daughter. You know, the world was a very different place in nineteen eighty two than it is today. Yeah, if a woman goes missing today, every finger is pointing at their significant other. Right, Lynn's father, Lynn was more willing to make a bold prediction. He said, the bastard has done her in. Lynn's brother, Greg Simms, a twenty seven year veteran of the police force, retired due to anxiety and depression in part because of Lynn's disappearance. He felt that he instinctively should have known that there was trouble in Lynn's marriage and that Chris had murdered Lynn. If he had intervened, maybe the outcome would be different. Greg isn't the only person plagued with guilt. The Dawson's neighbor and Lynn's good friend, Julie Andrew. When asked by Headley Thomas why she hadn't gone to the police, said, quote, women are very different now and the knowledge that I've gained as a mature woman, an older woman, I'm a very different person to the one I was back then. Back then, you believe your police, and you did. If your doctor told you something, you did what you were told. They know they can be trusted. So if police aren't going to do anything, then they must know something more than I know. But I never expected to see her again.

59:12 I just knew she'd been killed. I just want justice for her and her family, and I would love for her little girls to know she didn't leave them. She never walked away from them. She was taken from them by the person who was supposed to protect her. Greg recalled seeing bruises on Lynde's arms and legs frequently, as did several friends. Her tennis friends were called seeing an ugly purple bruise as big as a grapefruit on her thigh. A babysitter, natcho Anne, walked in on a fight between Lin and Chris over a dirty glass in the kitchen. Chris liked to keep the house meticulously clean. He was fastidious about his appearance self image and his home. The babysitter walked in on Chris violently snapping a dish towelt Lynne while she struggled to hide her tears. A seamstress who had been making a blouse for Lynne for Helena's surprise birthday, contacted police after she'd seen Lynn on TV.

1:00:04 When Lynn tried on the blouse for a fitting, she said that she was covered in bruises. She asked Lynne, quote, what in the hell have you been doing to yourself? Lynn said, Oh, it's a long story. I'm not in a very happy marriage. I'm married to a very violent man, and he's done other things to me as well. A neighbor recalled seeing Chris hitting Lynn as she held on to one of her young daughters, Anna A. Grantham, a friend of Lynn's from the childcare center where she worked, recalled a particularly harrowing story about Chris's violent tendencies. Lynde told her that Chris can be quite nasty. She told her about a time when he grabbed her hair and pushed her face into the moat around the newly built swimming pool. Lynde said she couldn't breathe. After Lynde disappeared.

1:00:46 Chris tried to avoid confrontations with the Simms family. He occasionally dropped his daughters off to see their grandparents. Their desire to continue the relationship with Chanel and Sharon likely played a part and them not questioning Chris more, but as time passed, the visits decrease, until Chris moved away. A year after Lynde's disappearance, Chris dropped off ten bags filled with Lynde's possessions at her parents' house. It took two years for Helena to find the courage to sort through the bags. Chris claimed that the last time that he'd seen Lynn, she'd been wearing a pair of pink shorts, but they were among the things in the bags, as were her contact lenses, ID cards, and her nursing credentials that she'd need in order to get a new job.

1:01:29 There wore a handful of alleged sightings of Lynn over the years on the Central Coast in New Zealand, at a farmer's market, a bus stop, and even once on TV. And then there were the four phone calls from Lynn that Chris had claimed that he had received. None of these sightings or phone calls were credible or verifiable. Lynn was a good person. She was warm and kind and loved with her whole heart. She would not, under any circumstance, put her friend's family and beloved daughters through the worry of disappearing to join a religious cult. And if for no other reason, Lynn would not have left her two daughters with the husband that was abusing her. Right, she would want to protect them. Yeah, although there's no evidence that he ever abused the children.

1:02:12 But still, you're right, she would not. She wouldn't want to leave them in that situation. It seems so obvious to me that he did something to her. On January fifteenth, nineteen eighty four, Chris thirty six and Joanne nineteen were married. He had quietly divorced Lynn in June nineteen eighty three after her disappearance, citing abandonment, and won all of her assets, despite owing over eight thousand dollars to Helena and Len Simms, money they would never see again. The wedding was a spartan affair, devoid of flowers or traditional wedding decor. Joanne looked like a child standing next to Chris. Paul and his wife Marilyn were their witnesses. Hours before the wedding, Chris and Paul had sex with Joanne together.

1:02:57 Is that not the weirdest thing? I know, the whole Yeah, this whole thing is the weirdest thing. And these yeah, it's disgusting. Once Joanne told Chris that she didn't think that Paul liked her anymore, he suggested that the two of them have sex together. But when Chris walked in on Joanne and Paul together in bed, he wasn't happy and it never happened again. This whole thing is like just leaving me speechless, Like I just I don't have the world. We're not expressing the right level of outrage and disbelief. I know, shocking, it really is. I mean, it's bad enough for two men to treat a girl like this, but the fact that they're twins just makes it so much ickier. The whole thing is just really.

1:03:41 Making me feel like it's really hard to around. Chris decided to move his family to Queensland's Gold Coast at the end of nineteen eighty four, near a theme park called dream World. Of course, Marilyn and Paul moved too. The brothers had sold their homes in Bayview for a large profit they had been paid for in full. The house on Gilwinga Drive to day is valued at four million Australian dollars or two and a half million US dollars. They once again built large homes in a rural area five hundred meters apart, complete with swimming pools and tennis courts. Joanne soon became pregnant and they added another daughter, Kristin, to their family. Kristin was born on January eighth, nineteen eighty five, a month early three years to the day after Lynne had disappeared. Now the brothers shared one more thing in common. They both had three daughters. Joanne admits that she struggled to treat the older two girls as her own, which caused constant stress in the marriage. Chris wanted her to be a doting mother like Lynn had been to the girls. He insisted the girls be treated like princesses. Joanne resented looking after Chanel and Sharon and frequently asked Chris why Lynn couldn't come get them. After Kristin was born, she told Chanel and Sharon to stop calling her mom. She kept Kristin from her sisters. They weren't allowed to even touch her. Joanne didn't want to mother the older girls, but adored her own baby and doated on her. Chris became jealous of the baby and missed spending time alone with Joanne.

1:05:14 So this is where like, I have empathy for Joanne because I think she was groomed and you know, she'd had a hard childhood. But the fact that she wasn't kind to these two little girls really breaks my heart. They were really struggling. Well, yeah, I'm sure they were. It's just it's so sad for those those girls. What they what they want? Alan Sharon. Yeah. The brothers again got work as physical education teachers. Ironically, Chris worked at Keebra Park High where Hedley Thomas had graduated just weeks before. Chris kept his nose down and tried to stay under the radar. He didn't get into any trouble with students while there that we know of. Soon he transferred to another school, Kumba High, to be with Paul. Years later, Joanne referred to the new house as the compound. She didn't have much freedom. She felt like a prisoner, with a two meter fence surrounding the property.

1:06:07 Two meters is around two yards do you know how I know that. I think it was schoolhouse rock. There was a song, the meter, The meter a little more than a yard. But you are implying that I know how much a yard is. Everyone knows how much a yard is. Well, I don't. If I stop and think about it, I think a yard is three feet, right, yeah, so two yards is six feet. I'm sorry if I implied that people who don't know how much a yard is are not smart. Maybe some people don't, but I just thought people knew that. I don't think that has anything to do with intelligence, in. My opinion, And actually none of this has anything. You're right, like a yard stick, like I can picture a yard stick. You were probably beaten with a yard stick in school. Yes, so that's probably how you were so intimately familiar with the yardstick regularly.

1:06:52 In any case, there was a fence surrounding the property that was about six feet high. Joanne said for years, Paul's wife Marilyn was the only person she was allowed to socialize with. Chris was even more controlling with Joanne than he'd been with Lynn. She convinced Chris to allow her to join a playgroup with Kristin. She became friendly with the other young mothers and realized that they were carefree and joyful. Their husbands weren't controlling like Chris. One of Joanne's friends from the time recalled to Headley Thomas that Joanne was naive about the world and seemed afraid of Chris. They had a peculiar sex life where he would demand she dress as a schoolgirl. He never wanted her to be sexy. It was always about her remaining young.

1:07:36 He didn't want her to mature. That's pretty disturbing, isn't it. It's very disturbing. I'm sure that's all. You just asked me a question, and I, in case our listeners are at all confused, I talk about Headley Thomas at the very beginning of this episode. But in case you have forgotten, Headley Thomas is the creator of the Teacher's Pet podcast who researched this case exhaustively, and we will talk about me more in part two. When a friend of Joanne's came to the house for a playdate, she said that Chris was hovering like a dark menace over everything Joanne did, watching her checking that she was doing everything correctly. He openly resented her friends being in the house. The woman said, quote, he had control entirely over what she did. He didn't want her to grow up. We just felt so worldly compared with her.

1:08:25 She just seemed like a kid. He was critical of her in our presence, belittling her, which was uncomfortable. Everyone including the children, seemed to be walking on eggshells. She said she had to do everything that was asked of her or there was trouble in the house. She talked of Chris having a voracious sexual appetite and she could not say no to him. Unquote. It's just I think with her upbring she had a really bad upbringing too with her parents, so she just didn't seems like she didn't know any better, that there was a different way to live, or that you didn't. Have to and likely because of all the trauma that she had in her life, she he had arrested development right. Each year, when Joanne and Chris returned to visit family in Bayview, he would run or drive back to the old house on Gilwinga Drive. He talked with his old neighbor and asked what renovations they'd been doing at the house.

1:09:15 The house had changed hands once more since he had initially sold it. He asked the new homeowner, who was updating the landscaping, quote, where are you digging? He had a keen interest as to the goings on at his old home. Do you think that's weird that he said, where are you digging? Yeah? That seems a little suspicious to me. Joanne had witnessed firsthand Chris berating Lynn and being violent towards her. He'd sing songs about how she was ugly, fat, and undesirable. Now Chris began doing the same thing to her. What a shock. She decided to join a cricket team with her friends from the playgroup. The only way Chris would let her out of the house or buy her the equipment she needed was to bargain with sexual favors. One night, she went to a lingerie party with a friend. When she returned home with new g string underwear, Chris was angry and told her she could only wear it for him.

1:10:07 She brazenly told him that she'd wear it when she liked. He lunged at her angrily and choked her. Sue Strath was a friend of Lyne's. They'd work together at the childcare center. Sue adored Lynn. After she disappeared. Sue was befuddled as to why there wasn't a bigger police investigation. I'm befuddled by that too, right, Why. Hadn't the police come to interview her and her co workers. She knew things about the Dawson's marriage, dark things that she thought the police should know. It made absolutely no sense to Sue that Lynn would willingly leave her life behind. Sue and many of Lynn's other co workers assumed that her family had talked to the police to hasten an investigation.

1:10:49 Graglin's brother was a police officer, and she thought that he'd make sure that her case was handled properly. Three years later, Lynn was still on Sue's mind. She missed her friend and needed to do something. In February nineteen eighty five, she circumvented the police and instead contacted the Ombudsman and filed a complaint that the police had never properly investigated Lynde's disappearance. In her letter, Sue, in great detail, over three pages, outlined the suspicious nature of Lynde's disappearance, as well as the inappropriate relationship between a teacher and student. In Australia, the Office of the Commonwealth Ombudsman is an independent body that investigates complaints and promotes best practices to improve public administration. They were powerful and well funded. If a complaint is filed, it must be addressed. Through his dogged persistence, along with luck and a helpful government employee, Headley Thomas was able to get a copy of the letter Sue wrote, which proved very helpful in his investigation.

1:11:49 A piece of the puzzle that the police had missed. Kind of long, but I'm going to read you the letter, Dear sir, in his three years since my friend Lynd Dawson of Bayview Heights was reported as a misas person by her husband, Chris Dawson. Lynn was a devoted mother of two small children. I worked with her at the Warrywood Children's Center. It was known by all her workmates that she was having marital problems. We had all heard about Chris's affair with a then sixteen year old student of his who was staying at the time with the Dawson family. Lynn, although she probably suspected, didn't want to believe this of her husband, whom she idolized. She accepted her marriage was shaky and on the Friday before she was last seen, she and her husband went to a marriage psychologist. She and Chris came back to work excited about better understanding and working out problems together. The next day what happened. Chris has told another friend of mine that Lynne found he and his girlfriend in bed and just freaked. Sure. I can understand that, but I don't believe she would walk out on her girls and leave them for another woman to raise. She loved her home and was a very materialistic person. Why would she walk out on a home worth over a quarter of a million dollars. Chris reported she left to join a religious group and is believed to be living on the North Coast.

1:13:05 As far as I know, she had no religious beliefs at all and didn't attend church. A person cannot become religious overnight, and most religious groups are very family oriented, so a woman with children would be acceptable rather than a woman without. Her husband was so sure she would not return. His girlfriend was moved in the following week. He has now married his schoolgirl lover, has a beautiful house and established family. Everything seems too easy. He got exactly what he wanted and his wife, who wasn't up to standard has vanished from the face of the earth, having no further contact with any family or friends. Chris has said he received a phone call, but I put this down to the extended story. It doesn't seem possible that a person can be swept under the rug and forgotten.

1:13:50 I would like to know what the police have done in this matter. Why weren't her workmates interviewed as to her last twenty four hours? Why were her husband's words used as soul evidence as to her whereabouts? It appears to me the police have taken the view that Lynn left her husband, family and work friends of her own free will. I wonder if this is true. I'm concerned as I was one of the last to see her on the Friday, but was never questioned by the police. Can a person just disappear and be accepted because she is over sixteen years, that she do so willingly when we only have her husband's word that this is what happened. Could you please throw a little bit of light on this mystery. I've seen her on the missing person posters and just cannot accept the explanation of her whereabouts. Yours faithfully, Susan Browitt.

1:14:38 Well Hella Lujah Susan like, I'm thanks thanks to someone finally, like you know, pushing on this and putting pressure on someone to. Do something really important. Letter. Yeah. Sue's claim was investigated by reaching out to the police, who Chris had filed Lynn's missing person's report with. In response to the Ahmbudsman's inquiry, an inspector puts the onus on Lynn's family, deciding that Helena had never characterized Lynn's disappearance as suspicious or fingered Chris as a suspect. The report said that Greg Simms, Lynn's brother, who was a police officer, had access to resources, and he failed to use them or wring the alarm. The response angered Greg.

1:15:20 He had in fact tried to spur the investigation along, but was told that only Chris, as Lynn's next of kin, would be given any information. AH. This is so frustrating. Journalist Wendy Page, who covered Lynn's case for more than twenty years, said quote, looking back, that is a thing that really distresses me that Lynn's disappearance was never properly investigated and that the police didn't take it seriously. If only they had properly investigated at the time, they could have found telephone records or bank card records. They would have learned of Dawson's relationship with Joanne, and they might have decided Lynn did not voluntarily disappear. There might have been a different result back then. There were so many red flags in this story.

1:16:05 I'll say. Barbara Cruz, a friend of Lin's and the owner of the childcare center where Lynn worked as a nurse, believes police were influenced because of Chris's local celebrity status and they believed his story. Quote he had been a first grade footballer, he was on television ads, he was a teacher in the local community, and because of his athletic ability or his football prowess, I feel that they believed him. He got all of the money, whatever money they might have had. He got the children, he got the house, and he got the girlfriend. He didn't dip out any way, shape or form, and it would appear that he did it without anyone questioning him. Lynn's friend Anna Gratham, like Sue, regrets not contacting the police sooner quote I wish I could have done more. Why didn't we? How could we just let it go like this? Years and years? I do regret not doing something at the beginning. We all do.

1:17:01 Sue told Hedley Thomas that she wanted Chris to be punished before he's dead. She said, quote, the police were like, oh, the poor guy, his wife's left him. Like, come on, why wasn't he ever prosecuted for having sex with underage girls? He and his brother? Why did that never happen? Good question, Sue. Lynn, Sue, and the other women who worked at the childcare center were close friends. Lynn confided in her coworkers that she was worried about her marriage, and especially about Joanne and Chris's relationship. Sue had encouraged Lynn to nip that in the bud. She did not doubt that the relationship had turned sexual, but Lynn wasn't ready to let her mind go there. She adored her husband. It was Sue's persistence that got Lynn's case looked at again. Damian Lune was assigned to the case, and he was just as persistent as Sue. We'll get to Damian Luhne in the next episode.

1:17:54 Oh, I'm just glad somebody is finally taking a closer look at this. I mean, how many years been three? Three years? Well this point, it's only three years, only three I mean, hang onto your hat. Oh, god oh boy. Okay, that's where we're going to end part one. Come back next time for part two. I will what do you think so far? I'm just I'm just so frustrated how many people did things that were just bad in this story. I mean, there's obviously Chris, who's a horrible person, and then it sounds like his twin brothers a whole horrible person. The problem is, though, yes, they are horrible people, and they did horrible things to these lovely young girls and to their wives, but people viewed them as yeah, they viewed them. They put them on a pedestal, right, They thought that they were nice guys. They thought that, you know, they're athletes and they're good looking, and they were I think nice to people on the service.

1:18:50 So what I was going to go out and say, though, is that all There's so many other people, like all the people at the school that the headmaster at the school that you were talking about, who was like, oh what could I do? These people are all having relationships and Chris, you know, having like ten guys come in to have sex with these other schoolgirls. Yea, all these guys that are going along with this and nobody reporting it, and the police not following up or taking any kind of like proactive approach to this. And even I don't want to like blame Lyn's family, but why weren't they more aggressive about. He cannot blame Lyn's family. They are lovely people. I'm sure they have been a lot. I know that, but it's just frustrating that nobody, you know, seemed to be pushing any harder until this sue person.

1:19:39 Right, I mean again, it was nineteen yeah, nineteen eighties, and it was a different time and women you know, didn't get treated as well as they were treated that great today, But it just wasn't as common for a man to just up and of course it happened. But what do you think happened to Lynn? Well, I mean I believe that he killed her, that Chris killed her. It sounds to me like maybe he drugged her because of the phone call that she had with her mom that night where she was a little tipsy or maybe puzzled suzzled exactly, So maybe he drugged her and then you know, smothered her or something like that. But it's you know, the only thing I can go on is what you were talking about with him asking the people who owned the house, that you know what they were doing with their landscaping, that perhaps he buried her in the yard somewhere. But yeah, you know, that's all I can really speculate on.

1:20:31 Well, we will get to that next time. I will look forward to finding out the truth. I hope we get to find out the truth. You are being spoilers. I am a I am a two meter wall. Yes, your your poker face is really impressive. Were you ever a teacher's pet? Not in this way, not in the not in the creepy chrystals way. What you mean. Yeah, no hesitation? Oh no, yeah, I mean I was a good sting. I got one here on the line. You know me, I'm a rule follower. I follow the rules. I listen and I do what I'm doing. A rule follower.

1:21:11 I'm totally you are a rule follower. You were a manual reader, yeah, exactly when we were first married. I don't think you do it as much, but I used to drive me crazy. We'd get like a a DVD player and you'd be like, well, let me read the instructions first. Of you just it was they were more complicated than that. Fact used to try me nuts that you would just hap hazard. Leana, just start plug in a DVD player. Who knows what kind of damage could be done by doing that without reading the manual. First, you've come a long way, Baby's still I still kind of read manuals, but in secret. Yeah, I can't let you know, That's.

1:21:51 Right, I just don't blow up at me exactly. I too was a teacher's pet, believe it or not. I believe that, Yeah, I was cute and that you're cute. Well, I mean, you know, just I looked. I was probably like wayfish because I've got this, you know, unruly red hair and pale skin, and I don't know, people just probably felt sorry for him. Award child. You were a good student, though, and you I'm sure I was. I was always I think I've probably talked about this before, A smart kid, but not not the And I was a good student. I mean I was a fair it was. I got good grades, but I never I didn't study much. Yeah, you didn't study much either, right. You always talk about how you just aced high school and you never opened a book? Ye, same, rich, same, Yeah, was anyone in your high school involved with a teacher that you know of?

1:22:42 Uh? Not that I know of. I'm sure it probably happened. But I so rose to me. Yeah for sure, and you know, back not that it was acceptable, but it definitely was I think more common, and I think people look the other way more when stuff like that happened. I don't know, maybe that's just me imagining that, but I didn't know. I didn't know of it happening at all, but I'm just guessing that it probably did. So. I know of one rumored romance in my high school, and I think it was like everyone was pretty sure that it was going on. Really yeah, and there's a connection. I'll tell you later, but it's kind of someone you kind of sort of oh really, but yeah, I'm not going to say anything else, but yeah, I think I think I was kind of flirting with teachers sometimes. I mean, there is were you flirt. I don't know, it's just kind of weird to think of it was some teachers are super young, Like if you're seventeen eighteen and there's a student teacher that I had a big crush on, and he was probably twenty two or twenty three, and then the next year he came back and he was a teacher, So it was kind of.

1:23:49 Like I do remember in high school once I had an English teacher. Her name was missus Olds, and she was really old. She was like eighty, probably in her eighties. Maybe she wasn't quite that old, but no, she got sick or something and she had to leave and the person who replaced her had to be right. Yes, she was very young and very attractive. And every guy like this is high school, you know, we're eleventh or twelfth grade. Every guy like had a total crush. Not you, because no, I did too. But I didn't. I didn't flirt with. Her anything like that. No, I don't want to be annoying.

1:24:30 But do you want to tell everyone how awesome your wife is? You are awesome, and you've put me in a bad situation. Well you okay, let's just say you're awesome because of all the nice things you did for my birthday over the last couple of weeks. But you put me in a bad position because now your birthday's coming up, and there's no way I'm going to live up to the same. For my birthday, I would like, here's what I want for my birthday. I want you to anoymous leap donate to charity Okay, I don't want any I don't want my name attached. You were like the Larry David episode. Yes, anonymous, that's what I want, just because I'm selfless. I don't need gifts. I don't want anyone to spend money.

1:25:13 I'm glad we've got this on recording, but I will share this the very nice things you did for my Oh, I. Just met the big one, just because that was pretty exciting. You don't talk about all the other stuff. Oh, there were two big things you did. It wasn't that the first one wasn't that big of a deal. That's it was. You got tickets for us to go see Jim gaff again, who we we love. We've seen him a couple a few times. He's hilarious. You've not seen if you are, you need to see. He's just really fun, humorous. It's almost like a play because there's really no like a lot of comedians do audience interactions. There's like no audience interaction. He just gives out there, does his skit and then he's out. Yeah. But we so we went to downtown Detroit. We stayed overnight there. We went to see Jim Gaffigan.

1:25:55 And had a nice alcohol free dinner things. We went to a restaurant that didn't serve of Margaret there. But really one of the highlights too, was was we ran into Kevin McDonald from Kids in the Hall. We were at our hotel. We were walking down the hall and coming the other way was Kevin McDonald, who I love Kids in the Hall. You do. Always been a huge fan. And so I got to see Kevin McDonald say hi to him that that. Was so cute. That was and because I didn't know, because I was just like, oh, it was just a little weird guy. After we passed, I said, we passed him and I kind of looked at him and said hi, and he said ye to me. And then I came running up to you. I'm like, that was Kevin McDonald, did you. From? Yeah? So that was really cool.

1:26:36 Yeah, and then we stayed in that was a really nice hotel. That was That was a fun weekend. Yeah, it was really fun. And then Thanksgiving on Thursday, we you got me tickets to you got the whole family tickets to go see the Lions game playing the Bears on Thanksgiving Day, which was awesome. It was a great game. It was exciting and and yeah, it was just really fun to It. Was really fun to be at the game. I had to say, And I am from Chicago, as many of you know. I wore your Bears. I wore a Bear sweatshirt. And can I just say I felt unsafe? Yeah, I felt. I felt a little bad because the fans can get really like, yeah, they can be jerks, and I hate that about well, it's.

1:27:16 Been a long time since we've been to a game. The amount of test t stosterone in that stadium. Yeah, holy cow, so aggressive and a man like, I'm a I'm a nice person. I don't look intimidating at all. Someone came up to me, got in my face with his beer breath and said, fuck you Chicago, and I was like, okay, I know. That's the one thing I really hate that about football games. It's always been kind of like that. There's just fights breakout and people are. In the game. So the first half of the game, the Bear scored zero and I'm like, okay, well that that sucks if you're a Bears fan. But then he came back for the second half and they were gonna. Win, like. And I was like, what am I gonna I'm gonna die because you weren't gonna protect me. You would have so because I had the Bear.

1:28:01 Shirt on, but yeah, I probably would have failed because so it was. A point I'm like rooting against the Bears because I'm like, if the Bears win, I'm going to be murdered. So I was like, do I go buy a lion shirt and giftshop? Oh, can you get out of this place. It's good that you're thinking ahead that sort of thing. But that was gratefully the Bears blew it, yeah, and their coach was fired. So it was really kind of a cool game to be at. Yeah, it was pretty cool. And then to top it all off, on my actual birthday November thirtieth, University of Michigan beat Ohio State, which was I don't know how. You arranged the sports podcast. I don't know how you arranged that, but I was so appreciative that you were able to it. Definitely took some phone calls, yeah. Because they were like twenty some point underdog. So that was like just made my birthday. It just topped it all to.

1:28:45 Our Ohio friends. It's why there was a few people that messaged me after every Ohio you know, Ohio State Michigan game. And yeah, it's all in good fun. No, it's fun, it's really not some people. Hold. When I was at the airport yesterday in New York, somebody came up to me and she said, I just want you to know. I was wearing my Michigan sweatshirt and she said, I just want you know. I live in Columbus, but I really like your sweatshirt. Wow. That's interesting. Nice. Well, if you are listening to this on Monday, December ninth, you missed the boat on our merche so sorry. If enough people contact with like five or more people tell us that they would still like to order something, we can open the store again, right.

1:29:33 I think we can. We have to close it because they don't print it until we close the order. Yeah, but we could reopen it again if we have enough people that really. In time for Christmas. Let us know. So yeah, let us know. And how can they let us know? You can come to come to our house and not gon our note. They could email us, You. Could email, You could email us, or you can kill at gmail dot. You can message us on Instagram or Facebook, or. You could write us a letter PO box one one one dexter Michigan for one three zero. You could run into us at the Michigan game or no, actually Michigan's don't playing anyway. No, yeah, just let us know and we will. I'm really we're really tired. We were a little slap happy, but they're a little tired. Yeah, that was a long one. Thanks for hanging in there with us.

1:30:26 If you made it to the end, Yeah, we appreciate you listening. If you'd like to listen to both parts of this episode today, you can join us on patreon dot com slash love Mary Kill. We have one tier, five dollars a month, and you get early ad free access and we do a monthly bonus episode. Do you know what I found out the other day? I was looking at Patreon and some other podcasters patreons. I was doing a little snooping. There are some podcasters that have tiers that go up to like more than twenty dollars. They might send you a pair of socks or something, but I'm sorry, who needs more socks. We decided to only have one tier and we don't plan on raising our you know, the five dollars anytime soon. And some podcasters you have to pay to talk to them.

1:31:10 They won't answer your messages unless you're like, you know, like a third tier Patreon member. It's not like that. I love you well. I do my best to get back to everyone. And if you don't get a response, it's not because I'm ignoring you, it's because I didn't see it. Facebook, especially, I'm not good at Facebook. It's like harder. Instagram is a little easier, so you can message me again if I I don't see it the first time, if you haven't already, it would be a wonderful Christmas present if you could leave us a five star review. Yeah, that really makes a big difference. Really the best thing that you and it really does. It makes a difference. Yeah, it makes other listeners bind us. Well, thank you so much for listening. And until next time.

1:31:51 Don't kill your husband and don't kill your wife. To companion to The