Lynlee and Ben Renick - Part 2

WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm Rich, I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
some days you'll feel like killing your husband,

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and some days you'll feel like killing
your wife. Welcome to love,

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Mary Kill. Hey Tina, Hey
Rich, how are you doing. I'm

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a little sleepy, which I know
you want to sacs the face for saying

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that, But you're a sleepy I
know. So this is part two?

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Yes, and sorry, I'm gonna
drop the French. You don't have to.

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I won't understand it. I'm more
of a Spanish girl myself. But

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yeah, we're just doing part two
of the band Renick case and we're just

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rolling on the scene. Yeah,
we just roll from one episode to the

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next. So Riches, I haven't
even watched the Lions game yet. He

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doesn't watch the Lions game. He
hasn't slept, and I'm not sure how

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you're still awake either, But well
done. Just just a short reminder that

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our friend Francie is still running her
ten percent discount off on her amazing,

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cool beautiful jewelry at Peach Mountain Designs
Peach Mountain Designs on Etsy or you what

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did you tell me that you see
dot com, slash shop slash Peach Mountain

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designs yea and Peach Mountain. It's
where we live kind of ye like,

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and it's not really a mountain at
all, but there's yeh. She does

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cool work though. Yeah. Check
it out. Yeah, she's a cool

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lady. So fall is kind of
creeping in, starting to feel like it

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isn't it. Yeah, it's in
Michigan. I know, it's like this

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a lot of places this time of
year. Like you start the day cold,

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and you put on a sweatshirt or
a hoodie like I did, or

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a sweater, and then by noon
you're hot and you need to change,

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and then early evening you have to
change again. I really I love this

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time of year. Act I don't. I don't love the fact that it's

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going to be cold all the time
soon, But I really like the way

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it is right now. It's really
nice. It's yeah, it's beautiful.

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It's a good feeling in the air. Yeah, just a little bit of

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crispness. And it's when we just
eat so differently in the fall and winter

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compared to the summer summer. It's
just we just kind of grab something in

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the winter. It's more soups and
stews and things like that. It just

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makes you feel cozy. Yeah,
and when you were gone, I actually

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I got out the little early,
but I got with the fall decoration.

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I noticed that that's very cool.
Yeah it looks I think it's it's pretty

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cute, looks festive around the house. Yeah, and then we go we

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kind of go like from ball and
I already put Halloween up, which I

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probably shouldn't have, and then into
put a few things up for Thanksgiving,

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but then we tend to go right
into Christmas. So decorated for months,

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sacked out for quite a while.
Now, I was thinking on Patreon,

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maybe I'll put a few pictures,
not that anyone cares, but oh it

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was funny too, like decorating with
the cats, like they already tore some

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of the things down, and oh
they love it. Yeah, they were

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very excited about the leaves. I
posted a picture on Instagram. But yeah,

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Cosmo, they like, I have
these garlands of like leaves and I

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just put them in a big pile
and Cosmo really just liked to jump in

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them. And yeah, yeah,
how do they feel about the black cats?

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We have these two, these two
like black cats, Like I don't

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know what they're made of, but
they're tinsel. YEA. Our daughter found

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these really cool black cats last year
and some sort of antique outlet, and

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she brought them home and they're just
the coolest things. And I put them

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on the stairs, and they're kind
of the size of our cats. Every

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time I walk around the corner of
the stairs, just I see them out

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of the corner of my eye and
I think our cats are there, and

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then I realized, no, it's
just those two decorations. But yeah,

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they're pretty cute. Yeah, the
cats aren't there. They weren't freaked out

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by them. No, I think
they I think they liked them. I

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don't think cats recognize you know,
oh that looks like a cat shape.

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I came home after being away for
a whole week and you and our daughter

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were gone, and I got home
and the cats were like whatever. Like

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I thought they would be at least
sort of interested, like, oh,

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look he's back. He hasn't been
here for a week, but they just

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didn't. Set't really care less.
I mean, you know, are kind

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of a little self absorbed. I
shouldn't take it personally. You should not

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take it personally. Well, do
you wanna we have a recap to do,

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but we also have a snack.
Should we have our snack? We

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should very exciting. Our lovely listener
Cat sent us this box from Hungry Greetings.

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We haven't opened it yet, and
it's been sitting around for like a

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month, and we decided that we
were just going to open it on the

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next episode where we didn't have a
snack planned, and we've had like some

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planned snacks, so I've been dying
to know it's in here. It's a

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cool bo It's in a little box
and it said it actually says on the

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box like a printed label. It
says Tina and Rich thank you so much.

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It's a really cute box. It's
a really cute label. And I

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always like to have gift idea for
people. And you know, like our

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son is away at college. Obviously
he loves when we send him snacks.

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So yeah, let's open it up
and see. I'll let you open it

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because it's your episode. Okay,
Well, thank thank you so much.

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Kat. It's very nice of you. All right, Oh my, there's

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all sorts of stuff in here,
is it. Yeah, it's like a

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whole package of all kinds of Well, there's some Welch's fruit snacks. First

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of all, there's some Oh you're
gonna like this pirate's booty aged white cheddar.

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I do, I do, love
ya looks good. Oh, I

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know you like pop chips too.
Pop chips are here. I'm gonna keep

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the eminem's cooking. The cooking.
There's like twenty things in here. Oh

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so it's like a whole Yeah.
Oh my gosh. There's like cheese,

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it's there's planters, peanuts, there's
rice, crispy trees, love it.

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There's air heads, there's chewy granola
bars. Holy moly, Cat, thank

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you. So oh that's awesome.
Thank you Kat. That's so sweet.

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And I love that idea. So
I'm going to send one of those over

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to you to our baby boy.
Yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah,

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he would enjoy that too. Well's
there's no way we're going to try

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all of this right now, but
let's take it. Let's just we'll both

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pick one snack, okay, and
we will come back and we'll let you

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know what we picked. All right. Well, I think that was my

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lunch. You did kind of dive
right in there. I'm pretty hungry.

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That's a great idea. For people
like me who will eat a whole backup

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chips kind of sitting so I can
just eat, you know, the little

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bag. But I chose some peanuts. Yeah, classic planters. You're delicious.

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Yeah. I had a chewy grin
all the bar Quaker who was really

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good too. I thought you were
gonna have you were gonna have a cookie.

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No, I had some more cheeseburger
potato chairs. I ran downstairs to

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get something to drink, and I
grabbed one of those French cookies. Oh

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yeah, they're really good. Like
the butter there just seems different, Yeah,

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buttery or something. Yeah, but
thank you so much, Kat.

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That was a great, great treat. Appreciate it. We'll be working on

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that all week. All right,
Well, you know what time it is?

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Oh no, yes, A favorite
time of Part two episodes. I

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just always feel like this is like
a a pop quiz. I know pop

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quiz because I know I know it's
coming. That's here, your your recap.

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Okay, I think I've got the
major points, but you're gonna have

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to help me fill in. So
we have Ben Rennick, who was a

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snake a snake breeder, right,
and uh he lived in the Saint Louis

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area, but not really kind of
out in the country, but yeah,

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Saint Louis and Columbia were the two
biggest cities nearby. I grew up on

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a farm, like his family farm, and it was about fifty acres and

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he and his brother Sam grew up
on the farm and they both had houses

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on the farm and the after the
property. Yeah, after they became adults,

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they both his mom died of cans
right, and his dad sadly committed

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suicide in order to he was he
was indicted and yeah, he was going

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to go to jail, and he
was probably going to end up losing the

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farm, right, and he ended
up, you know, he sacrificed his

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own life so his sons could keep
the property. So there was a big

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barn or out some sort of outbuilding
on the property where Ben kept the snakes.

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Yeah, it kind of look like
a warehouse, sort of like a

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and he specialized in ball pythons,
which are about six feet long and the

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average like three to five pounds something
like that. Yeah, but they also

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had a huge anaconda in the basement
of the facility and it was two hundred

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pounds and do you know how long
it was I don't very long, very

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very long. This is funny.
One time when I was in I think

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it was in first or second grade, I had to write a report on

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snakes and it had to be a
page long, and I was really lazy,

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and so my report was snakes are
very very very very and I wrote

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the word very across the entire page
and at the end I wrote long.

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I did not get a good grade
on that report. I do not.

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I'm a bit ashamed of to this
day. Yes, yeah, well you

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should, because you're a really smart
guy, and yeah, pretty lazy.

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I also was a very lazy student
and not a dummy either, but yeah,

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late lazy, lazy student, which
was hard when you have kids and

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you're always trying to encourage them to
do their best. And that report's not

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good enough and I know that.
Do as I say. Yeah. So

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Ben met a woman named Lindley who
was a massage therapist who had a young

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son named Matthew, and they fell
in love and moved in together, got

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married after three or four years.
And three or four well, they moved

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into really quickly, like three months
after they met they married out. Okay,

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yeah, they didn't get married for
about three or four years, but

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they had a child, and their
child's name was Amelia and she went by

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Emma and she was born in twenty
twelve, and twenty twelve was also the

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year that their dad committed suicide.
Their dad had a pet food business,

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yes, and I think that's where
Sam worked for the pet food Sam and

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Ben both I think worked for the
pet food business when their dad killed himself.

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Yeah, okay, but then Ben
went into the snake breating and that

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was pretty much his full time job. Yeah, it had been a hobby

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up until that point. But how
many snakes did he have? They had

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like a hit a lot. He
had like between twenty five hundred and three

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thousand snakes when he died. Inconceivable, Like, isn't it. Yeah,

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it's just I don't even keep track
of all that. I don't know,

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but I guess that's why he kept
them in like these little drawers or not

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little drawers, but drawers. So
we had like three thousand drawers. Yeah,

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this facility was like you just you
know, wall to wall row after

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row of the snakes. Eight.
I always thinking like a snakes eating mice,

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But I don't like I think I
think I read somewhere about them,

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like set shipments of like mice or
something. I was wondering about the anaconda

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like that, how do you what
do you feed a two hundred pound anaconda?

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And I didn't. I didn't find
anything about that, but I should.

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I don't know, how do you
how do you do that? I

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don't know because I didn't do a
report on snakes, but it wasn't first

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grade I did. But so Linley
helped grow the business. She did a

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lot of the social media work and
I think the maybe a YouTube channel and

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a videography, but she also did
her massage therapy business, and she'd had

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a dream to open up her own
spa. Yeah, well, she quit

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the massage therapy for a while because
the snake business got to be like very

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time consuming. And then she asked
Ben if he would help her open the

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spa, and he agreed to it, kind of sounding like he wasn't quite

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on board. He wasn't sure if
she could really handle him. She was

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pretty young. It sounds like she
was probably still in her mid twenties and

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she wasn't quite a businesswoman. And
the business strug after it was built,

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and it was losing like a thousand, a thousand dollars a week, right,

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it's a lot of money to lose. And Ben specialized in snakes called

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morphs, like he kind of genetically
engineered like a different not breed, but

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different colors of snakes. Yeah,
they were all ball pythons, was the

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breed. But yeah, he created
different morphs of ball pythons. That's amazing.

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So Ben had this crazy NHL goalie
that was going to buy his complete

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supply of snakes or over a million
dollars, right, Yeah, that was

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that deal was going to fall through, but not before Ben died. Yeah,

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he had made a down payment,
but he hadn't been making the other

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payments on it, so it was
kind of falling apart at the time of

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Ben's death. I don't have the
date here, but what was the date

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of Ben getting shot. It was
in June of twenty seventeen. So there

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was like a flurry of text messages
between Linley and Ben like are you can

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you pick up the kids? Oh? I can't pick up the kids,

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and then the messages stopped. Yeah. He should probably say before that though,

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that they were having marital problems because
of the stress of the money and

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everything. But also Linley started having
affairs, yeah, and then which Ben

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didn't know, and she was also
on Ashley Madison. She had she was

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seeing someone. And then she also
went on Ashley Madison with the encouragement of

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a woman in her office or who
also came to Ashley. I think that's

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about all I had. Well,
I mean he was Ben was shot and

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his brother Sam found him. Well, Linley found him, but she called

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Sam right away, who came over
and saw that he was dead. And

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then and then the paramedics came shortly
after that, and there was one of

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the paramedics was someone that had a
history with the Runneck family, and she

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kind of she pointed her finger at
Sam with no evidence. She just and

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yeah, yeah, and Sam was
kind enough to talk to you, right,

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And Linley also pointed the finger at
Sam too. When she talked to

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the police, she you know,
basically said that, oh it's probably Sam,

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probably did it. Ben was shot
eight times and Sam passed the polygraph

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test, but Linley did not correct. And when we left off, I

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think it had been two and a
half years and there had been no arrest.

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Correct. Okay, good job.
Yeah, Well, let's get back

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into it. So the guy that
Linley had met on Ashley Madison. His

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name was Brandon Blackwell, and she
continued seeing him. Yeah, it does.

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After Ben died, you know,
Lindley's behavior was pretty questionable. She

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sold the farm right away. I
forgot to say that. Yeah, she

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continued seeing and she basically gave Sam
thirty days to vacate the farm that he

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had lived on his whole life and
grown up on. Terrible. So is

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your impression is she not not a
nice person? That is my impression?

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00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:03.679
All right. So Brandon Blackwell was
the guy that she had met on Ashley

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Madison. Again, they kept dating
after Ben was killed. About a year

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after Ben's death, Lindley announced that
she was pregnant with Brandon Blackwell's baby,

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and Jackson Blackwell was born in January
of twenty nineteen. Brandon and Lindley's relationship

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was very tumultuous, though, and
it was getting worse over time. At

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one point, Lindley ran off to
her dad's house because she said that Brandon

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had threatened her and she was scared. Another time, she called the police

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and said that Brandon had put his
hands on her, and he was arrested

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for assault. Although Brandon denied that
the assault happened. At one point,

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Lindley got an order of protection against
Brandon, but he violated the order and

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got arrested for that several times.
During some of these run ins with the

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police, investigators tried to get Brandon
to share anything he might know about Lindley's

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involvement in Ben's murder. They suspected
that she maybe had confided in him or

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at least let something slip, but
he said no, he didn't know anything.

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In early twenty twenty, Linley said
that Brandon was terrorizing her, texting

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her hundreds of times a day and
stalking her. Brandon was again arrested,

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and while sitting in jail after being
denied bond, he decided that it was

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time to share with investigators what Linley
had told him two years earlier. He

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told investigators that he had started getting
a feeling that Lindley knew more about Ben's

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death than she had been letting on, and he said, you know,

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if our relationship is going anywhere,
I need you to be honest with me.

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She finally agreed to talk while they
were in a rented cabin on vacation.

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She made Brandon put his cell phone
in the other room during their talk.

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I guess because she wanted to be
sure that he wasn't recording their conversation

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or that no one was listening in. She told Brandon, and again this

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is according to Brandon, that Ben
had been getting ready to leave her and

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that she was afraid that he would
get custody of the kids, and so

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she came up with a plan to
kill him. She said that she called

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her old boyfriend, Michael Humphrey.
I don't know if you remember, but

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Michael Humphrey was a guy that she
had dated before she met Ben, or

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before she and Ben got involved.
He was the one that he had gotten

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her hooked on painkillers. He was, you know, he'd been involved in

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drugs and had been selling drugs.
So she told Brandon that she called Michael

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Humphrey even though she hadn't spoken with
him in years, but apparently she thought

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he was kind of involved in drugs
and shady dealings, so maybe he would

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be willing to help her kill Ben. And besides, she felt like he

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owed her for getting her hooked on
painkillers years earlier. On the day of

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Ben's murder, Brandon said that Michael
picked Linley up at the Spa and the

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two of them drove out to the
farm together. Michael brought a gun,

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but when they got to the farm, Linley grabbed the gun, went into

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the snake facility and shot Ben herself
several times before coming back out to the

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car and speeding away to the Spa
with Michael. Brandon said that Lindley didn't

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show any emotion or remorse while telling
him this story. So remember this is

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all Brandon's account of what Lindley told
him happened. But could we believe his

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story? After all, he was
in jail without bond and he was six

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months away from going to trial.
There were recordings of calls he had made

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from the jail where he said things
like, quote, She's going to be

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fucking sitting in prison, and that
fucking baby's going to be mine. That's

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what's going to fucking happen, and
it's about time to burn that bitch.

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That's about all I know to do. So he was angry with Lindley for

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getting him in trouble, and maybe
he wanted revenge. And another thing to

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consider, she supposedly told him that
she murdered her husband in cold blood,

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and yet he stayed with her for
two more years after that. What do

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you think of Brandon's story. I
think that Brandon's looking for a sweet plea

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deal. Yeah, I think there's
definitely something to that. He had motivation

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to tell give police what they wanted, right, which clearly they wanted to

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get something on Lindley. But I
do think that she probably shot him.

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Investigators they must have believed Brandon's story
because and maybe they had corroborating evidence as

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well. Did he take a light
detector test that I do not know,

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but they two days later after he
told them this story, they arrested both

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Lindley and Michael Humphrey. In fact, they did have more than just Brandon

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Blackwell's story. They also had a
transaction on Lindley's debit card for gas at

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a gas station which was on the
way from her spa in Columbia heading toward

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the farm the day of Ben's murder, and that debit card transaction was at

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three oh three pm. Debit card
trails exactly she was supposedly at the spa

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that time. They had questioned Ashley
Shaw, who was the manager at Lindley's

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spa, previously, and she had
claimed that Lindley had been at the SPA

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for that entire day. Were like
good friends, right, I think they

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were pretty good friends. Yeah,
they were definitely close. But armed with

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the new information that they had,
they put pressure on Ashley to tell them

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everything. Otherwise they said she would
be in a lot of trouble as well,

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and so, in exchange for immunity, Ashley confessed to the police that

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she had not only been covering for
Lindley, but in fact she had also

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been complicit in the plot to kill
Ben. Linley had confided in Ashley about

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all their marital problems, and about
a month or two before Ben's murder,

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Lindley told Ashley that Ben had raped
her while she was sleeping. She said

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that she was afraid of losing her
children in a divorce because Ben had more

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resources, like you know, he
had more money or access to money than

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she did, and she couldn't see
any other option besides killing him. So

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Ben has no criminal record, no
history of violence, not that I'm aware

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of, I don't think so.
So Linley asked for Ashley's help, and

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I think as she probably felt sympathy
for her, and she agreed to help

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her. Ashley revealed another surprising fact
to the police. So June eighth,

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the day that Ben was murdered,
was not the first time that Lindley,

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with Ashley's help, tried to kill
Ben. I just want to say,

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if any of my personal friends are
listening, if you want to murder your

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husband, don't ask me for help. I will. I will gladly make

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a podcast about it later, but
I will not help you. Yeah,

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saying the body, I mean,
it's one of the we'll talk about it

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later. But one of the interesting
things about this case are the people that

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were willing to help Linley, and
there's more than what we've talked about.

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So Ashley and Linley first decided that
they would try to poison Ben. So

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Ashley did some internet research on the
best way to kill someone with pills.

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She came up with the idea of
getting him to overdose on prescription painkillers,

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and then she got a hold of
some percoset, which she gave to Lindley,

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who blended them up in the blender
at work and then mixed them into

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into Ben's protein shake. That night, Ben got violently ill, but he

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didn't die, and so the next
day they decided on plan B, which

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was to contact Michael Humphrey. Lindley
brought his name up, saying that he

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had a prior record of being in
trouble and thought that he would help her

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out. Ashley and Lindley searched the
internet to find out where Michael Humphrey was

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living at the time, and remember
again, Lindley hadn't seen him or talked

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to him in seven years or something
like that. They together drove out to

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his place, and I'm sure Humphrey
was a little bit confused since he hadn't

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seen Lindley for so many years.
But after catching up a bit, Linley

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told Humphrey about her situation. She
says that Ben was abusing her and she

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needed a way out. She told
Michael how they had tried to poison Ben

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and asked if he would help her, or if he knew someone would who

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would help her. He said he'd
think about it. A day or two

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later, he came into the SPA
and he met with Lindley in private.

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After he left, Lindley told Ashley
that Michael knew some people who would help

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her kill Ben, but she would
need money, a lot of money which

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she didn't have. People's go to. Wasn't let's kill him instead of like,

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let's get you out of this toxic
environment. Yeah, I know.

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So Lindley decided that she couldn't come
up with the money, and so then

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they went to Plan C, which
was Michael providing her with a gun,

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which morphed into Michael going with her
to kill Ben together. Michael had car

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problems and so their plan got delayed
a couple of days, but finally on

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June eighth, the plan came together. Lindley and Michael departed from the Spa

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a little bit before three o'clock to
go kill Ben. Lindley left her phone

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at the spa and asked Ashley to
text Ben at some point so that would

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give Yeah, Ashley. She actually
didn't end up texting Ben from Lindley's phone,

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but she did reply to Ben's Facebook
message on the computer at work.

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If you remember, Ben messaged Lindley
at three forty five asking about picking up

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the kids. He messaged her on
Facebook. Messaged on Facebook all the time.

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It's kind of weird to me,
but yeah, or was it Facebook

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Messenger? Yeah? Yeah, I
think it was Facebook Messenger. So,

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pretending to be Lindley, Ashley replied, saying she couldn't leave work and needed

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him to do it, so this
would help with Lindley's alibi showing that she

347
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was at the SPA, and also
would provide a reason for the kids to

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get stranded at school so that the
school would eventually call Lindley to say that

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they hadn't been picked up. They
also had a number of texts between Lindley

350
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and Michael Humphrey from the day of
Ben's murder, both in the morning and

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later in the afternoon. All these
texts seemed innocuous enough, Lindley explained them

352
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away to police as they were just
trying to arrange a massage for an old

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friend who was having car problems.
But eventually on trial for murder. Just

354
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a couple of months before Lindley's trial
was supposed to start, Michael also decided

355
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:56.119
to cooperate with police. It wasn't
a great deal for him. Instead of

356
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.839
going to prison for life without the
possibility of parole, michael sentence would still

357
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.920
be life, but now at least
with the possibility of parole, and for

358
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:08.920
that he agreed to tell what he
said really happened and to testify against Linley

359
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:12.720
at her trial. So remember,
up until now we have Brandon's account of

360
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:18.079
what Linley told him. We have
Ashley's account of what she says happened,

361
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.279
and now we have Michael's account of
what he says happened. They're all a

362
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:26.599
little bit different. They're all fairly
consistent, but it's a lot to wade

363
00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.240
through for the attorneys. I know
it is. So. Michael's account was

364
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:36.880
that he never actually agreed to help
kill Ben. Instead, he offered assistance,

365
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.359
first by loaning her his gun just
in case she needed it for self

366
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:45.039
defense, but later he agreed to
accompany her to the farm to protect her

367
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:48.680
in case she needed it, so
that she could go get some of her

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things and go stay with her dad. When he showed up at the spot,

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Linley asked him to drive, which
surprised him since she knew he had

370
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been having car problems. He did
drive his car, but then he realized

371
00:26:00.079 --> 00:26:03.519
he needed gas, which annoyed Lindley
a bit, but she ended up paying

372
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.559
for the gas with her debit card. On the way out to the farm,

373
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Lindley told him that she was just
going to get some stuff from the

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house and she wanted Michael to be
there just to be sure that Ben didn't

375
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flip out. When they got to
the farm. They both got out of

376
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the car. At that point,
Lindley sort of pushed the gun toward him.

377
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He said that he didn't even know
she had brought the gun with her

378
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until this point. He had loaned
it to her a few days earlier,

379
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and he kind of pushed back,
like, what the hell are you doing?

380
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And at that point Ben came out
of the snake facility. He was

381
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:40.839
throwing out a box or something,
taking it to their dumpster. I'm sure

382
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:44.440
Ben was confused as to who this
guy was with Lindley. He had never

383
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.400
met Michael before, so thinking on
her feet, Lindley told Ben that Michael

384
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was an old friend of hers who
wanted to look at some snakes. Ben

385
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:57.240
said sure, and so Michael followed
him into the snake facility while Lindley grabbed

386
00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.279
the box that Ben was going to
dispose of and she takes it to the

387
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:06.359
dumpster. Ben and Michael go into
the facility. Ben washes his hands at

388
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:10.480
the sink because they're very particular about
like germs and things like that, and

389
00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:14.240
then he walks down the hallway and
the facility. At that point, Lindley

390
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:19.000
comes back in. She walks down
the corridor passed Michael toward Ben. Michael

391
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:23.000
hears a shot. He looks down
the hallway to see Lindley with the gun.

392
00:27:23.880 --> 00:27:26.640
Ben was around the corner at this
point, so Michael says he couldn't

393
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.240
see him. But Michael turned and
ran out the door, and he heard

394
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.839
more shots as he went. A
few seconds later, Lindley came running out

395
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.480
screaming at Michael to drive, which
he does. They head back to the

396
00:27:38.519 --> 00:27:42.759
Spa in Columbia all told. Michael
says that they were there for maybe five

397
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:48.079
minutes or less. When they got
back to the spa, Ashley immediately takes

398
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:52.599
Lindley back to a room in the
spa with a shower table, helps her

399
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:56.400
take her clothes off, and then
washes her down head to toe while Lindley

400
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.160
lay curled down the table. I
was going to ask if she had a

401
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.119
gunshot rosidue test. She did have
a test I'd mentioned earlier on in part

402
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.720
one. It came back negative.
But yeah, Linley or Ashley apparently scrubbed

403
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.160
her down really well. As soon
as she got back, Michael came back

404
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:18.720
to the room where Ashley was washing
Linley up. Why couldnt Linley wash herself?

405
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.880
I think she was like kind of
shock or hysterical. But yeah.

406
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:27.039
One of them asked Michael if he
would take Linley's clothes and dispose of them.

407
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:30.680
He said no, and he said
he didn't really want anything more to

408
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.319
do with them, and then leaves. Again, this is all Michael's story.

409
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:37.920
He's basically making it sound like he
had no idea there was going to

410
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.160
be a murder at all. He
was just there to help her. But

411
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.759
he's in jail for life, right, he has a possibility of parole.

412
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:48.079
That his deal was. He is
in prison for life. So I'm not

413
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:52.240
sure if there is more to Michael's
story or not, but that was the

414
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:56.599
story that he that he told the
police. So he is a life sentence

415
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:03.200
for his involvement in this murder.
Yes, yeah, so he really got

416
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:06.759
I mean, and it seems like
the evidence against him is just hearsay.

417
00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:08.480
Yeah I think it is. Yeah, I mean, he was definitely there.

418
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:14.559
He admitted to being there in his
story. He had no idea that

419
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.799
Lindley was going to kill him.
But I don't know if his story is

420
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.279
true. He may have gone there
with her with the intent that he was

421
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:25.480
going to do it and then he
chickened out. But either way, Yeah,

422
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.200
he is in prison for life.
I guess I'm curious what the evidence

423
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:32.839
is that is against him that the
jury heard. Yeah, I wish that

424
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.519
I could have found information about his
trial. Lindley's entire trial was on court

425
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:41.880
TV, remember watching that. But
Michael's trial, there was really no information

426
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.480
about it that I found anywhere.
I don't want to get ahead of ourselves,

427
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:48.880
but I'm guessing he's in a peel
process. No, I think he's

428
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.240
I think he's in jail. He
cut a deal. I mean the deal

429
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:56.279
that he cut was I will now
have the possibility of parole. Sorry,

430
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:00.920
I'm sleepy. Yes, that's probably
a good time to take a quick break.

431
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:11.000
We'll be right back, all right. So going into Lindley's trial,

432
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.720
I just wanted to say I had
a little snack while we ran a little

433
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.240
commercial break. And if you've never
had a high chew before, h I

434
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:23.200
c h W. They're in our
little snack box that cast send us.

435
00:30:23.240 --> 00:30:26.160
I love those. They're so they're
so good, Like I love the texture.

436
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.880
I know I've had them before,
but I don't. I don't remember

437
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:33.400
them at all. It's just it's
really chewy, and it's just fruity and

438
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.519
I'm sorry. Well, thanks for
sharing. You're welcome. Well you knew

439
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:40.880
I had another snack too, would
you have? I had some fruit snacks

440
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:44.960
some I don't know what brand there. Welch. Remember at a certain age

441
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:49.319
when our darling daughter would only eat
she had four food. She would eats

442
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:53.680
popcorn, hot dogs. It was
popcorn. No, it was like fruit

443
00:30:53.759 --> 00:31:02.200
snacks, string cheese, pasta,
and she ate for yeah, but the

444
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:07.559
Welch's fruit snakes were her favorite.
They're good, all right. So let's

445
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.720
recap the evidence against Lindley going into
her trial. So you have Brandon Blackwell,

446
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:18.599
Lindley's boyfriend starting before Ben's death,
saying that Lindley admitted to him that

447
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.400
she had killed Ben. You have
Ashley Shaw, who cut a deal for

448
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.839
testifying that she was complicit in helping
Linley to plan Ben's murder. I didn't

449
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:30.160
mention it until now, but there
was another SPA employee, a woman named

450
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:34.480
Rachel Hunt, who also said that
Lindley told her about her plans to kill

451
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:37.799
Ben. She wasn't as involved as
Ashley in the planning, but she was

452
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:44.000
also aware of it. You have
Michael Humphrey's story of being there with Lindley.

453
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.440
You have the gas station receipt on
Lindley's debit card for the afternoon of

454
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.759
Ben's murder when she originally said she
was at the spa all day, And

455
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.799
they have a bunch of circumstantial stuff
as well, Lindley and Ben's marital problems,

456
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.559
Lindley's affairs with three different guys right
around the time of Ben's death,

457
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:05.519
her selling the farm soon afterwards,
her failing the polygraph, and so on.

458
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:08.359
Yeah, that's that's a lot.
It's not looking good for Lindley.

459
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:13.720
No, it's not so. As
her trial rolled around in December twenty one,

460
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:20.079
Lindley actually came up with a way
of explaining everything, though, Oh

461
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:23.680
okay was a misunderstanding. Yes,
despite what she had said before about being

462
00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:28.000
at the spa all day, she
now admitted that she was actually there when

463
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.000
Ben was killed, but that she
didn't do it. She took the stand

464
00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:36.119
in her own defense, testifying for
over four hours and telling quite the tale.

465
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:40.000
Before she went into what actually she
says happened, she started by trying

466
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:45.000
to paint a sympathetic portrait of her
life up until Ben's murder. She talked

467
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.680
about her upbringing, her health,
issues, her struggles with depression and eating

468
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:53.559
disorders. She talked about her dedication
to becoming a massage therapist, even through

469
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:59.480
an unexpected pregnancy and the father of
her first child going to jail. She

470
00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:02.839
talked about her toxic relationship with Michael
Humphrey, who got her addicted to painkillers,

471
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:07.519
and how she quit cold turkey when
she went to stay with her dad.

472
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.519
She talked about falling in love with
Ben after seeing how good he was

473
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:15.640
with her son, and how she
supported Ben in his reptile business, putting

474
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:19.319
aside her own career to work with
him to grow the business. And then

475
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:23.160
she testified about how things started to
get more difficult, money troubles, spending

476
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:27.680
all their time on the business,
and then her dreams of opening her own

477
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:31.640
spa when she found that Ben wasn't
as supportive of her as she had thought,

478
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:37.160
and then their growing marital problems.
She claimed that Ben raped her in

479
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.680
the middle of the night more than
once. She talked about the stress of

480
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:45.319
running the spa and how she delegated
almost everything to Ashley because she was frankly

481
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.599
in over her head. She shared
some of the text messages that she and

482
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:54.000
Ben had had where she came across
as the good guy kind of wondering if

483
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:59.200
they should close the spa and suggesting
they go to therapy, while some of

484
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:02.000
Ben's response says that she shared kind
of made him look like maybe a bit

485
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:06.720
of a jerk. All that led
up to the spring of twenty seventeen,

486
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:10.400
when Lindley says that she basically had
checked out of the marriage. She wasn't

487
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:15.039
proud of it, but she started
having affairs and then she finally decided to

488
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:19.519
tell Ben that she wanted a divorce, and June eighth was the day that

489
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.920
she was finally going to do it. But she wanted someone to go with

490
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:27.360
her because she was worried about Ben
getting violent, and for some reason,

491
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:30.360
the best option she and Ashley could
come up with was Michael Humphrey, even

492
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:35.719
though Lindley hadn't talked to him in
years. So she reaches out to Michael.

493
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:38.079
He agrees to go with her as
protection, but when they get out

494
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:43.079
to the Snake Facility, Michael just
goes crazy and starts shooting Ben without any

495
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:47.239
warning. She said that she was
outside the snake facility, so she didn't

496
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:51.800
know exactly what happened in there.
She was in shock, and denial,

497
00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:54.159
and that's why she didn't call nine
to one one at that point, and

498
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:59.599
why her follow up texts to Ben
didn't allude to what happened. And her

499
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.800
follow texts to Michael, although they
sounded like they were trying to arrange a

500
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:07.239
time for him to come in for
a massage, they were really her trying

501
00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:09.679
to get him to come in and
explain what happened. What do you think

502
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:15.840
about Lindley's story? It sounds like
a bunch of WHOI It does sound like

503
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:21.400
a bunch of whoie. Yeah,
I mean she had to try. Yeah,

504
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.719
And the question like when you think
about like why would Michael just suddenly

505
00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:30.320
kill Ben on his own without Lindley, you know, without her involvement.

506
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:36.280
Her defense wanted the jury to believe
that it was because a because he was

507
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:40.400
on meth and people on meth are
just unpredictable, or b because Lindley had

508
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:44.679
told him that Ben had abused her
and that was what he believed to be

509
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:46.920
the only way to deal with abusers. So, you know, her whole

510
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.719
her whole defense was that he just
did this on his own. But then

511
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:55.320
the other big question is why would
all these other people Ashley Michael, Brandon,

512
00:35:55.480 --> 00:36:01.400
and Rachel make up this lie about
Lindley plotting to kill her. According

513
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:05.960
to Lindley's defense, they all had
their reasons, right. Brandon was angry.

514
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:08.960
He wanted revenge because he was in
jail for stalking Linley. So he

515
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:13.679
struck a deal, right So,
and I think there is some validity to

516
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:15.639
that. He was angry at her, and he did want to strike a

517
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:20.039
deal to get out of jail.
But you know, Michael, he was

518
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:22.760
on trial for murder, so he
struck a deal so that he could get

519
00:36:22.800 --> 00:36:27.079
parole. Ashley and Rachel, that's
a little harder to explain, you know.

520
00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:30.119
But Lindley's defense was that the police
pressured them, saying they would be

521
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:34.400
in big trouble if they didn't turn
on Lindley. And by the way,

522
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.639
the poisoning incident that happened a week
or two before Ben's murder, that was

523
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.800
completely innocent, according to Lindley.
You see, people would send stuff to

524
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:46.639
the SPA all the time for Lindley
to try things like protein powder and supplements

525
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:52.760
in hopes that the SPA would start
selling those items. According to Lindley,

526
00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:55.559
that was why Ben got sick.
They had gotten some supplement to try and

527
00:36:55.639 --> 00:37:00.960
Lindley brought it home and it wasn't
just Ben and Ashley also tried whether whatever

528
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:05.639
the sample was that was sent to
them and they both got violently ill as

529
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:09.079
well, But there's no evidence of
that correct, correct. So Linley she

530
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:12.639
had an answer for everything, right, Well, she's the victim here,

531
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:15.800
Yeah, that's what That's kind of
what it made it sound like. So

532
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:20.920
I do have to admit, like
I watched her entire testimony, and even

533
00:37:20.920 --> 00:37:24.199
though there's no doubt in my mind
that she is completely guilty of premeditated murder,

534
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:29.000
I have to admit that her performance
on the stand was pretty impressive.

535
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:32.679
As ludicrous as I think her story
was, she came across as very earnest

536
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:38.239
and sympathetic. Here's a short clip
where the prosecutor asks her, after all

537
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:43.039
the lies that she admitted telling the
police, why the jury should believe her?

538
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:47.519
Now? If you're willing to lie
to the police about such a vital

539
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:58.679
man, why should these jurors now
believe you. I was lying to protect

540
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:04.719
myself, and I told a lot
of really awful lies just to do that.

541
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:13.719
But it's just too heavy, and
it's too much, and so much

542
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:21.760
bad has come from trying to hide
behind those lies. So I understand what

543
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:29.039
the prosecutors saying about all of the
lies that I told. But all I

544
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:35.960
can do now is just to sit
up here and tell the truth, and

545
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:39.119
at least I will have gotten it
out and I won't have to carry it

546
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:46.519
anymore, or Linley's been carrying around
this burden. Well, I just had

547
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:50.440
to google a little a little picture
of Linley because I you know, he

548
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:55.639
always assessed someone's guilt or innocence by
what they look like. Yeah, I

549
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:59.880
mean, she's a cute girl,
but Ben, I hadn't seen his picture

550
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:01.280
for what a cute guy. Yeah, good looking guy. Yeah, it

551
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:08.239
just seems he just Linley reminds me
a little of Kirsten Dunst. Yeah,

552
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:12.320
has a similar look to her.
She kind of almost sounded like her in

553
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:15.119
that clip too, Yeah, a
little bit, a little bit. So

554
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.199
it wasn't I mean her performance again, I thought it was very It came

555
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:25.599
across at least sounding sincere, although
I've the psychopathy can make themselves believe what

556
00:39:25.639 --> 00:39:32.039
they're saying exactly. Linley's dad testified
for the defense about his daughter's character and

557
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:37.480
how she was never violent and how
upset she was and how in shock she

558
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:44.000
was after Ben's murder, and her
dad obviously he believed these emotions were genuine.

559
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:47.840
Diana Waspman, the EMT who was
on the scene. She also testified

560
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.280
on behalf of Lindley, which I
thought was kind of crazy because she really

561
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:55.000
headed out for Sam. I mean, I don't know if it was that

562
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.719
or that she just really believed Linley, like she really felt like Lindley was

563
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.840
so upset when she broke the news
to her that Ben was dead and on

564
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.679
the scene and all of that,
that she just she felt like she wanted

565
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.880
to help. Well, you didn't, I don't. I think we said

566
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:15.000
this in episode one, but Lindley's
tiny. She's like five feet tall,

567
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:19.840
one hundred pounds, and you know, people tend to treat you like you

568
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.280
look, and she looks kind of
like wayfish and you know, yeah,

569
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:25.639
she looks kind of helpless, and
yeah, someone that you want to take

570
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:30.400
care of, you know. So
what do you think the jury decided?

571
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:38.119
Sorry, I just took a drink. I think she's guilty. I think

572
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.360
you're not asking me what I think. I mean, I don't know all

573
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:45.039
the I don't know. You listen
to. I know you listen to a

574
00:40:45.039 --> 00:40:52.920
lot of the trial. Yeah,
I guess I think that I don't want

575
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.360
to be wrong. I think guilty. All right. They did find her

576
00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:00.719
guilty, so they deliberated for twelve
hours. They found her guilty, but

577
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:06.960
they did not find her guilty of
premeditated first degree murder. Instead, they

578
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:12.599
found her guilty of second degree murder. And in Missouri, the jury decides

579
00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:15.199
the sentence for this, I'm never
sure like in these trials, sometimes the

580
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:20.239
judge decides. In this case,
the jury decides the sentence, like they

581
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:25.360
give the jury. I'm sure they
give them some but but yeah, they

582
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:29.039
get to decide the sentence. I'm
sure there's guidelines for Oh, if it's

583
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:32.159
second degree murder, here's a range
or whatever. They decided that she would

584
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:40.800
get a total of sixteen years.
Oh yeah, sixteen years. Ah,

585
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:45.159
and I hope that you have you
asked Sam how he felt about that?

586
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:47.320
Well, in fact I did.
That's a great segue. She is a

587
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:53.360
manipulative monster. She's very pitty me. You know, she comes off as

588
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:59.079
pathetic, almost pitiful, like are
things are the animal that you ever help?

589
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:04.000
And and I don't know she was
able to convince there was twelve jurors.

590
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.199
I don't know how basically good night, I really don't. I would

591
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.960
killed to hear for one of those
jurors and how they came up with a

592
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:15.599
decision that sixteen years was all my
brother's life was worth. This was even

593
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:19.159
the judge afterwards said, you know, they did not understand their instructions clearly,

594
00:42:19.639 --> 00:42:24.239
and this was clearly a premeditated murder
and they didn't follow their jury instructions.

595
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:30.039
But it's just's a shame of justice
wasn't served at all, and it's

596
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.119
it shook my belief in the system, not just mine. I can't tell

597
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.960
you how many people in the industry
my brother worked in we were just completely

598
00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:44.159
flabbergasted by by this and the lack
of justice in this case. Yeah,

599
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:46.199
I couldn't. I couldn't agree with
Sam Moore on that one. I just

600
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:52.079
that's that's devastating. It's really sad. Was Ben when he died? I

601
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.920
think it was twenty nine Holy moly? Yeah, and he uh. Sam

602
00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:00.440
mentioned the judge also, and I
did find a clip of the judge talking

603
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.800
to Lindley after her sentencing, and
he had he had some choice words about

604
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:09.559
the sentence as well, somehow they
got confused, in my view, taking

605
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:15.039
you out of the equation. His
brother would still be alive. I don't

606
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:20.719
understand how you're going up there at
one minute you want a divorce and to

607
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.639
get mister Humphrey mad enough to kill. I don't know. It doesn't matter

608
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:27.880
if he killed. You were the
one that put him up to it.

609
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:31.480
You're awful, lucky, ma'am.
You're gonna get out in your forties,

610
00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:36.519
and my forties weren't too bad.
I just hope you don't kill again.

611
00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:40.599
Oh boy, I know that's not
something you hear from a judge very often,

612
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:47.239
that kind of that kind of statement. Wow, yeah, that's all

613
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:52.960
I have as Wow, that's that's
crazy. Yeah, dad, And really

614
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:57.159
not justice, No, not at
all, not at all. So I'll

615
00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:00.440
have a few notes of what happened
after, but before or that, I

616
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:04.639
have a few discussion topics, so
a little book club discussion. But the

617
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:10.079
first one is how did Linley get
all these people? So Ashley, Michael,

618
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:15.800
Brandon, Rachel, they all helped
her or covered for She didn't pay

619
00:44:15.800 --> 00:44:17.800
them, She didn't pay anybody anything
for this. They were all willing to

620
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:23.079
lie to the police without their knowledge
of or in Ashley in Michael's case,

621
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:29.119
their involvement in I think if I
were in that position, people would be

622
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:34.320
like, no, I'm not helping
you. I think she's I think Sam

623
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:36.840
and I'm not just being nice to
Seam because he was kind enough to give

624
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:38.760
us an interview. But I think
he nailed it when he said that she

625
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:44.800
was like a helpless little creature.
Yeah, and you know, people just

626
00:44:45.039 --> 00:44:50.199
wanted to protect her. Yeah,
that's the only explanation that makes any sense.

627
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:52.880
But it's just it's just so mind
blowing that all these people, and

628
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:57.400
like Michael Humphrey, like she hadn't
seen him in seven years, and she

629
00:44:57.519 --> 00:44:59.440
calls him up and he's like,
oh, yeah, I'll go, I'll

630
00:44:59.480 --> 00:45:02.360
go help you. Like and again, maybe maybe he didn't think that she

631
00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:06.599
was going to be Well. Sometimes
it's the company that you keep to and

632
00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:12.239
some people are more prone to help
you murder your husband than others. Yeah.

633
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:16.880
Yeah, maybe it's clear that either
Lindley or Michael Humphrey pulled the trigger

634
00:45:16.960 --> 00:45:22.119
and killed Ben based on the information
that you've heard, Like, which one

635
00:45:22.119 --> 00:45:27.760
do you think did the actual shooting
and do you believe Michael Michael Humphrey story

636
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.360
that he didn't know that Linley was
planning to kill Ben that day, that

637
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:34.960
he was just going along to protect
her as she went to ask for a

638
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:37.239
divorce. You know, I don't
really know. I don't know, but

639
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:43.079
it's crazy that his sentence it's worse
than it's so much worse than hers.

640
00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:47.519
Yeah, I just wow. He
really must wake up every morning and just

641
00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:52.239
be like, what happened? Yeah, you know, I don't know what

642
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:54.599
I believe. I really don't.
What do you think? I think she

643
00:45:54.679 --> 00:46:00.000
did it? I think she pulled
the trigger. I think he probably knew

644
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:02.880
more than what he said. I
think he was probably not so innocent that

645
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:07.079
he thought he was just going there. I'm not sure. I don't I

646
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:09.719
don't know. But he was a
drug addict. Yeah, he was definitely

647
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:15.119
using math around that time, so
it's very possible that he was. But

648
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:20.639
no money exchanged hands, exchanged hands, like I think gas. I think

649
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:22.800
he got a massage. I think, honestly, I think that's what he

650
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:29.119
got out of the deal, was
that. It's just it's so crazy to

651
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:32.280
me, it is crazy. So
my last topic we've talked about a little

652
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:37.639
bit as well, But what do
you think about the punishment or the lack

653
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.400
of punishment for the other people involved. So Michael Humphrey we talked about,

654
00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:44.760
he's sitting in prison for life,
right, he may get prolled at some

655
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:49.599
point, but she's gonna Linley is
gonna be free long before Michael Humphrey is

656
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:52.719
free. And Ashley that's the one
that kind of gets me, right.

657
00:46:53.280 --> 00:47:00.280
They obviously they needed her to testify
to help get Linley convicted, but the

658
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:04.440
fact that she was actually you know, she was actively involved in planning and

659
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:07.079
she she was the one that got
the prescription painkillers that were used in the

660
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:13.039
first attempt on his life. But
she walked away with immunity for the whole

661
00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:17.920
thing. That's bananas too. Yeah, wow, the whole case is bananas.

662
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:24.480
Her her testimony on the stand,
she just she just comes across as

663
00:47:24.800 --> 00:47:29.920
not entitled, just really like,
uh boy, I wish I don't have

664
00:47:29.960 --> 00:47:34.760
apologetic kind of like she was just
up there sort of like not very cooperative,

665
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.400
not very helpful. It's just I
don't know her. It sounds like

666
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:44.239
no one is respecting that a man
lost his life. Yeah, yeah,

667
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:49.280
you know, a young man,
you know, with a child. It

668
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:53.800
really is sad that there's it seems
like the justice for for Ben has has

669
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:59.679
been lost in this. Yeah.
Yeah, for sure. So I'm sorry,

670
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:06.400
my Coole. Is there anything because
he plead out there's nothing that they

671
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:09.199
can do for him. No,
he struck a deal, No innocence project

672
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:14.280
or anything like that. No,
No, because ultimately he's not innocent.

673
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.760
He's not innocent. But that sentence
is so harsh. Yeah, I think

674
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:22.519
that it's not so much that he
got too harsh of a sentence. Maybe

675
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.559
he did, but I think Lindley's
light sentence is just ridiculous. It's just

676
00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:34.119
insane. I agree. A couple
notes the aftermath, so we talked about

677
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.159
it a little bit. But you
know, unfortunately, as with so many

678
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:39.639
other cases, the kids are also
victims in this case, right, two

679
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:44.559
kids, Matthew and Amelia, well
three kids, I know, but the

680
00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:50.920
two lost both of their primary parents, right Matthew. Ben wasn't Matthew's natural

681
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:55.360
parent, but he was basically apparent
to him and to and obviously to Amelia

682
00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:00.039
as well. But Jackson, he's
without his birth mother because of her actions.

683
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:06.760
As I mentioned, Sam and other
extended Rennick family members haven't been able

684
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:10.239
to see the kids since Ben's funeral, despite the fact that Sam says he's

685
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:15.920
tried everything he can to establish contact. He said that his lawyers have advised

686
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:17.880
him at this point there's nothing else
he can do and he should just wait

687
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.480
and hope that they reach out to
him at some point. But Sam has

688
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:25.760
three kids of his own, so
they have these cousins that they've you know,

689
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:30.599
they have no relationship with at this
point. So that's really sad,

690
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:35.239
and it's just, you know,
the way these kids, I think they're

691
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:37.800
with Lindley's sister. I'm not sure
if all of them. The one maybe

692
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:44.039
with Brandon, but the other two
I believe are with Lindley's sister at this

693
00:49:44.079 --> 00:49:49.239
point. And the kids, Again, the finances and the inheritance situation are

694
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.800
complicated, but I think when the
kids turn eighteen, they're going to inherit

695
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:57.039
a fair amount of money. I
think Ben had a life insurance policy and

696
00:49:57.079 --> 00:50:00.119
the kids would be the beneficiaries of
it. But around the time they turn

697
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:05.679
eighteen, Linley will probably beginning out
of prison around then or maybe a little

698
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:08.800
bit after that, but she's going
to have these kids who are inheriting quite

699
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:15.639
a bit of money. So it's
just the whole situation is really not good.

700
00:50:15.199 --> 00:50:20.199
Not good. In the end,
I think that Ben will be remembered,

701
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.360
certainly within the reptile community, as
one of the most brilliant rare snake

702
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:29.519
breeders who was on the forefront of
the techniques and the science behind breeding these

703
00:50:29.599 --> 00:50:34.199
one of a kind, beautiful and
rare snakes. He was serious, driven

704
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:38.360
and focused. Was he the perfect
husband? Probably not? But did he

705
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:44.119
deserve what Linley did him? Absolutely
not. I asked Sam how he hoped

706
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:49.519
that his brother would be remembered.
It was passion with the snakes in his

707
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:52.320
industry, and as a father,
he was an excellent father. You know.

708
00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:58.960
I hope the kids get their chance
to know that as you you know,

709
00:50:59.159 --> 00:51:01.440
as to get older though, he
loved to show her more than anything,

710
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:05.480
and he aspired a lot of people
in his industry. You know,

711
00:51:06.039 --> 00:51:09.719
he was well known well sure that
we did, and he's remembered by a

712
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:15.199
lot more than just me. That
makes me really sad. Yeah, it

713
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:16.559
does make me really sad. I
feel and again, you know, I

714
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:20.079
thank Sam so much for taking the
time to talk to me, but I

715
00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:22.440
feel so bad for him. You
know, he's lost both his parents,

716
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:25.559
he's lost his brother who is close
to and the farms and he grew up

717
00:51:25.599 --> 00:51:31.400
on and everything. So yeah,
very sad, very sad. What happened

718
00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:37.039
to the snakes? I think Linley
sold them, I'm not I'm not sure

719
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:40.679
who she sold them too, but
she had There was a friend of Ben's

720
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:45.679
who was also into the snakes that
she had asked to come help take care

721
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:47.880
of them after Ben died, and
he did, like he went to the

722
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:52.559
farm every day to help care for
the snakes and everything, and then he

723
00:51:52.599 --> 00:51:55.360
caught wind that she was like talking
to people about selling them to someone.

724
00:51:55.440 --> 00:52:00.280
So I'm sure she sold them eventually. I don't know to whom or how

725
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:02.519
much money she got out of that, but but yeah, she probably made

726
00:52:02.719 --> 00:52:07.440
a fair amount of money on that. All right. Well, thanks for

727
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:09.360
sticking with me on that. It's
it's a crazy story. Well you didn't

728
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:12.800
fall asleep. You're amazing. I
don't know how you did it, but

729
00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:15.920
well done. So I'm a football
game to watch too. So you have

730
00:52:16.519 --> 00:52:20.760
these episodes too. My heart goes
out to you. And then you have

731
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:22.639
to show up for work tomorrow.
Oh boy, Oh yeah, I forgot

732
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:28.039
about that. You're a you're a
trooper. Thanks. I appreciate that.

733
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:30.039
Well, I did want to mention. So I did have a lot of

734
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:34.639
sources for this case, which I'll
include in the episode notes, including the

735
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:38.280
dateline episode. Court TV had the
video the entire trial which I watched.

736
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:42.920
And just one last thank you to
Sam Rennick for spending time with me and

737
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:47.880
just being a complete open book and
sharing all of his thoughts. His motivation

738
00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:52.400
for talking with me and other people
is clear. He just doesn't want he

739
00:52:52.440 --> 00:52:55.840
doesn't believe that justice was served,
which I agree, completely agree with,

740
00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:00.199
and he wants people to know about
it. He wants there to be awareness

741
00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:04.320
of this and to you know,
make sure that people don't forget. So

742
00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:07.000
there's nothing we can do because I
mean, it would be double jeopardy if

743
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:09.960
she were tried again. Yeah,
he said something that he has talked to

744
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:15.760
lawyers about about that, and they've
pushed to try to get you know,

745
00:53:15.800 --> 00:53:20.360
different charges, but they've basically said
it will it will cost too much and

746
00:53:20.360 --> 00:53:24.559
they've already done what they're going to
do. So that's heartbreaking. Yeah,

747
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:29.400
it really is. Justice was not
served, It was not rest in peace.

748
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:36.239
Been all right, That's all I
got for you, Okay, Well,

749
00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:38.760
I wanted to give another thank you
to our friend Kat who sent us

750
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:45.519
this package again. It was from
Handry Greetings and it's it's pretty funny because

751
00:53:45.559 --> 00:53:50.400
I would like to challenge you to
get that all back in the box because

752
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:54.639
there's a ton of stuff in there. Pretty small. So yeah, great

753
00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:59.719
job package, have fun. Yeah, really a fun treat. Yeah,

754
00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:01.440
thank you Cat, and thank you
to all our listeners. Do you have

755
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:05.440
anything else? Well, I was
just going to mention after I got home

756
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:08.800
from being in Europe for seven days, I came home and I've I've noticed

757
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.960
all these things different around the house. You were like on a you were

758
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.920
on like an organizing mission or something. Right, I was slightly wasn't It

759
00:54:16.599 --> 00:54:21.079
wasn't as amazing as I ate,
or like new shelves up in the bathroom.

760
00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:22.960
There was all kinds of stuff going
on, all kinds of stuff.

761
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:29.760
Oh there's like downstairs that everything was
different in the basement. It really was

762
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:34.320
like the remote controls were in a
different spot. You know, we've lived

763
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:36.400
in our house for three years,
and I think I'm just getting antsy,

764
00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:38.440
you know how you're just like you
look around or like I hate everything.

765
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:42.480
Everything's ugly. You don't do that. Only women do that, I think

766
00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:47.000
so. But yeah, I just
got rid of some things that I didn't

767
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:52.320
really love, and are the shelves
and are we've never we have this weird

768
00:54:52.320 --> 00:54:54.880
shower. Tried to describe a shower. It's just like a big open like

769
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:58.800
you you can walk into the shower
from two different sides. It was just

770
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:04.039
wide open through shower and there's not
a door or a shower curtain. And

771
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:07.519
today actually it was the first time. Because it's in summertime, it's nice,

772
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:13.119
but in the winter it's kind of
chilly because it's so open and there's

773
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:15.840
no good place to put like any
shelves or any like anything. It's kept

774
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:19.920
everything on the floor. Yeah,
where there's like one little place where you're

775
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.119
supposed to anyway, long story short, I finally found some shelves that would

776
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:28.559
adhere to the tile. Yeah,
and it's awesome because now we have shelves

777
00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:30.639
were to put the shampoo and there's
a lot of things. Yeah, it's

778
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:34.239
very cool, riveting content. I
just think it's funny. When I go

779
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:36.679
away for a trip, I feel
like I feel like you're like, Okay,

780
00:55:36.719 --> 00:55:40.000
he's gone. Now I can rearrange
stuff, and you know, well,

781
00:55:40.039 --> 00:55:43.280
I'm not a slave. I'm not
your slave, but I don't have

782
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:45.679
to do your laundry and I don't
have to cook for you, so the

783
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:49.800
whole day just opens right up for
me. Yeah, a lot of extra

784
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.039
Well, no I do I do. You know I love an organizing Everyone

785
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:54.559
knows I love an organizing project.
So yeah, I didn't get to.

786
00:55:55.239 --> 00:56:01.519
I bought some like little spice like
spice stars like months ago, and I

787
00:56:01.559 --> 00:56:06.280
still have not had the opportunity.
I've not taken the opportunity to organize like

788
00:56:06.320 --> 00:56:10.000
I want to like decant all our
spices into all and consistent containers. And

789
00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:15.800
that's going to take a few hours. So I haven't made this is I'd

790
00:56:15.800 --> 00:56:19.199
better play on another trip. This
is the content that people are here for.

791
00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:22.360
But yeah, I do like to
organize. It just makes me feel

792
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:25.559
lighter and better. And I think
a lot of people probably know what I'm

793
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:30.039
talking about. They'll have to post
some pictures. I'm sure our listeners will

794
00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:35.039
want to see. Not so sure. I did have. I have had

795
00:56:35.079 --> 00:56:38.000
a few people ask for pantry pictures, so maybe i'll I've give I have

796
00:56:38.119 --> 00:56:43.239
sent them to Yeah, I could
put those up. We should all right,

797
00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:45.599
Well, thank you everybody for sticking
with us and listening. Hope you

798
00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:50.480
enjoyed the episode. Can I need
to give another well? First of all,

799
00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:54.679
our friend Francy one more time.
She has a ten percent coupon code,

800
00:56:54.800 --> 00:57:00.719
so check out her Etsy. Her
Etsy shop is Peach Mountain Signs and

801
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:07.119
her stuff is really cool. Ten
percent coupon coupon code kill ten and it

802
00:57:07.199 --> 00:57:12.719
is good until the end of October
of twenty twenty three. Awesome. Well,

803
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:15.280
thanks everybody for listening. Check us
out on our social media channels or

804
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:21.199
follow us on Twitter, LMK pod, Instagram, Love Mary Kill, Facebook,

805
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:24.519
Love Mary Kill. Look at you. Go check out our Patreon where

806
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:29.760
we just started it up. But
we're going to be doing some bonus episodes,

807
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:35.320
providing some additional content on Patreon and
giving you early access to episodes of

808
00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:38.519
social free access. Yeah, look
at you. You're just getting it all

809
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:43.039
done and on no sleep. Love
Mary Kill at gmail dot com too.

810
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:46.679
I want to give a shout out
to a special friend that I saw this

811
00:57:46.719 --> 00:57:52.039
weekend. Meredith. Oh yeah,
one of our favorite people and one of

812
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:55.039
our most dedicated listeners. Yeah,
I love you, Meredith. Yeah.

813
00:57:55.119 --> 00:58:00.719
Until next time, don't kill your
wife and don't kill your husband. The

814
00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:29.360
be be Be