Maria and Rob Marshall, the Blind Faith murder

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage. It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife. And some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, How are you. I'm doing great? How are you? You know? I've I've had a hard week. Yeah, things have been a little dark and gloomy here, and the state of the world is kind of bothering me a little bit.

0:41 Things kind of feel like just dark and uncertain. And we have a lot I think, I don't know it, like twenty five percent of our listeners are probably international listeners. Yeah, close to that. And a lot of people have reached out and said, hey, are you guys okay, what's going on over there? Yeah? I think a lot of people are feeling that way. Yeah, but everything's good personally, but you know, it's hard not to let certain things impact you. Yeah, for sure. And I haven't been sleeping as good last night. I stayed up too late working on this case. But I am excited to tell you about Maria and Rob Marshall today. Well, I'm excited to hear about it our cats are fighting right now, though they're having a all out wrestling match.

1:23 They're such sweet, like loving characters, but every now and then you see, oh, they're actually animals. Because Cosmo's teeth were bare and he looked he looked like he was down for the count though, because Clover was looming over him. Recently, someone there was like an older I think they must have been listening to an older episode and they said that we talked about our cats for eight minutes. Oh, that was true. I really do apologize. We do mention our cats a lot. I asked chat gpt to tell me a joke, okay, and I think it's a pretty good one. Oka. Ready, Yeah, A man walked into a library and asked the librarian do you have any books on paranoia? She whispered, they're right behind you.

2:08 That's pretty good. Do you think chat gpt actually made that joke up? No, I think that's probably a classic joke. Oh, I have another one. I told my wife she should embrace her mistakes. She gave me a hut. I could see that one coming. Alright, Well, I did bring you a snack, and I think you are gonna like it a lot. Okay, because I might have already had some. All right, I'm looking forward to it. Maria Marshall, the mom in her case, was known for her butter scotch bars, so I'm sure these are not as good as Maria Marshall's. But I made you butterscotch. Oh, and butterscotch is just so delicious. I like butterscotch sometimes I think I like chocolate so much, but butterscotch really is delicious.

2:52 Those look really good. Are they sort of like like chocolate chip cookie bars but with butterscotch instead? Yeah? Pretty much nice. I'd love to try those. What did you think of the butterscotch bars. I thought they were so good, great flavor and really like moist and chewy, kind of almost a brownie like texture and yummy. Well it's a blondie with butterscotch chips in it. The recipe will be posted in our show notes. And I did double the butter scotch chips because I just can't how you do we've a recipe alone. And I also added half a bag of heath. I had some heath chips, and I don't know if that really added anything to it or not.

3:35 It's a nice touch, yeah, Before we get into today's case, I wanted to let everyone know that we are now on YouTube. I don't know what people like to listen to podcasts on YouTube. Sometimes I didn't. I never really knew that, Yeah, but apparently they do. So we've started creating some videos. They're not the most exciting videos, but we were using the pictures that we normally post on social media and posting the cases on YouTube, so if you want to listen there. We are not posting ourselves recording the episodes though, so I'm sorry. I know people really would like that. But I don't know why people like that, but they would. But yeah, go check it out on YouTube. Just search for Love Mary Kill. And You and it would be great if you could subscribe to our YouTube channel.

4:18 Yes, that would be great. We would appreciate that. To time stamp this episode, we are recording on Saturday, March twenty ninth, at about three pm. This episode will be released on Monday, April seventh, which is the day of the Final four or no, I'm sorry, the final will be that day, right, right? So do you want to give your prediction? Well, I'm going to predict that our son is going to win our family bracket competition. Yes, as far. Ahead of that bracket is way busted. My bracket's not looking so good either. But I predict Duke is going to win it all. I know it's a safe prediction. They're probably who would they play in the final? I think they will play Auburn is what I have in my bracket. I believe.

5:00 Is that what pretty much everyone is saying. I think a lot of people are saying Duke is going to win Auburn. I'm going to can Michigan State be in there? Michigan State could definitely be in there. Yeah, with Duke, they could be. That's my prediction. Then know who's going to win Michigan State? Okay, we were last night Michigan, so we are right outside of Anna ARBORSA. Normally we route for University of Michigan, but Michigan State usually has a pretty good basketball team. They do, so I'm okay with rooting for them. Yeah, I guess I am too. But yeah, our son has not a perfect bracket. But picked he picked the elite eight complete. Yeah, all correpressive, right, it's really impressive. All right, Well let's get to our case. Okay, let's our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising every time we fall, a quote left by Maria Marshall that her son found after her death.

5:48 It's a very good quote. At their twentieth anniversary party, surrounded by family and friends, Rob Marshall stood beside his wife Maria and presented her with a bouquet of twenty teen white roses, one for each year of our blissfully happy marriage, he said. Then he handed her three red roses, and one for each of our three wonderful sons, whom she has raised with love and devotion. Maria, moved by the gesture, wiped away happy tears, her smile radiant. But among the guests was a woman she despised, someone who within six months, would help unravel her marriage, shatter her family, and set events into motion that would lead to Maria's tragic death. At nineteen, Robbie Marshall was home for a semester after getting suspended from Villanova University, much to his parents frustration. He'd rather be at school, but it wasn't all bad. His mom's cooking was a huge upgrade from dorm food, and she liked to spoil him each morning with her fluffy pancakes, He had extra time with his high school girlfriend and mornings where he could sleep in. Robbie lived with his parents, Rob Senior, forty five and Maria forty two, and his younger brothers, Chris eighteen and John fourteen. Chris, the studious one, had just left for his freshman year at Lehigh University. Robbie, a former high school swimschamp, had spent the summer life guarding at Whortley Beach in their hometown of Tom's River, New Jersey. On September sixth, nineteen eighty four, Maria woke

7:19 Robbie up around eleven a m. And asked if he wanted to grab blunch with her and his dad at the club. He agreed, god of bed and hit the shower. Robbie adored his mom, and so did his brothers. Maria was the heart of their family. She loved her boys fiercely and was their biggest cheerleader. She'd decorate the house with streamers and their school colors before their swim meets. She'd been voted swim team's Mother of the Year. His dad, Rob Senior, was a big deal in town. Tom's River's top insurance agent, successful charming. People joked that he and Maria looked like Kennon Barbie. He was also a proud of Villanova alum, which made robbie suspension sting even more.

8:00 Marie and Robbie waited for Rob Senior, growing impatient as the minutes ticked by. He was late. When he finally pulled into the driveway, he rushed inside to change. Just as they were about to head out, a car pulled up. A man named Phil Gerard stepped out. Rob introduced him to Maria and Robbie, then took him into his office and closed the door. A few minutes later, Gerard emerged, flashed a polite smile, and said something that left Maria and Robbie puzzled. Enjoy your vacation. Later that evening, Maria and Rob left for dinner and gambling lat jack, specifically in Atlantic City, about forty minutes away. Rob was a high roller. His boat was named Double Down. He started a local black jack club called the Winter Circle. The group chartered a bus twice a month and traveled to Atlantic City together, but to night was just an evening for Maria and Rob. Robbie complimented Maria before she left.

8:54 She looked beautiful as usual, in her designer dress, heels, soft blonde curls, and sun kis skin. It was the last time he saw his beloved mother alive. Robbi bid them a good night, then watched a movie until he went to bed at midnight. Several hours later, Robbie was jolted awake by a harsh light that flooded his room. Rob stumbled through the doorway, frantic and crying, soaked in blood. Father mulkay he their priest from Saint Joseph's Church, by his side. John, the youngest Marshal, awoke and came into the room. Startled. He sat on Robbie's bed while Rob delivered the horrible news through ragged sobs. Their beautiful, kind, loving, perfect mother had been killed. They all cried together, not sure how they would go on without the center of their world. Danny O'Brien, the county homicide sergeant, along with two state troopers, arrived at the Marshall home around five a m Rob was still dressed in his suit coat and dress pants. He welcomed the officers in and offered them a drink. O'Brien later said quote he didn't look like a man whose wife had just been murdered. He looked like a man on his way to his yacht.

9:56 At about six a m. The officers brought Rob to the State Police s Barracks to be interviewed. While waiting for the interview to get started, Rob fell asleep on the couch. He fell asleep. His wife had just been killed, and you croll up on the sofa. Like a god reaction. The interview didn't go well for Rob. He denied having a fair he was. He said he loved his wife, but they'd been having some marital issues stemming from their financial situation. Rob said that Maria was causing them to be in great debt because of her spending problem. Rob told police that Maria had fallen asleep on the way home from Atlantic City with her head in his lap. As they drove along the Garden State Parkway. He woke Maria to tell her that he needed to check a tire.

10:41 Rob pulled off the highway into the Oyster Creek picnic area, just ten miles from their home somewhere between midnight and one am. Maria popped the trunk so that Rob could get the spare tire. When he got out of his Cadillac to check the tire. Another car pulled up behind him, killed its engine and turned off their lights. Rob assumed they were there just to sleep, but while he was rifling around in the trunk looking for a flashlight, he was hit on the back of his head and knocked unconscious. He explained to the police that he must have been followed from the casino where they'd won six thousand dollars playing blackjack that night. So this takes place in nineteen eighty four, and I think in several places, I'll tell you what the value of the money is adjusted for inflation, but if I don't, just it's about three times. So they wont approximately eighteen thousand dollars.

11:28 That's a good night playing black jack, right, right. He said he was a high roller, right, so that is definitely possible. In his two thousand and two book Tunnel Vision, Trial and Error, Marshall recalled the night of September sixth quote. After a pleasant dinner at Harrah's Meadows restaurant in Atlantic City, Rob and Maria Marshall played blackjack for a couple of hours and walked away with over six thousand dollars. They paid off two small credit markers, then headed home. When he regained consciousness, the money was missing. He found Maria slumped over dead in the front seat with two bullet wounds to the back. Rob waved down a passing motorist and asked them to call the police. Quote I started to shake, so I got my coat and that was hanging in the back of the car and sat on the front seat beside her. I sat there and cried and cried until the police came. The picnic area is surrounded by woods, is unlit, and parking is forbidden after dark.

12:22 On the night of September seventh, it was completely dark. Police searched the rest area and surrounding forests for clues, but came up empty. Divers searched Oyster Creek, which runs behind the picnic area, for the murder weapon, believed to be a forty five caliber handgun. A mile or so up the road was a well lit hole plaza, and a few miles further was a Roy Rogers restaurant, So it was unclear why Rob would have picked this dark rest area to stop. Yeah, that seems a little odd. The tire appeared to have been damaged with a knife. The detectives noted a clean, straight cut about an inch and a half long on the sidewall just above where it rested on them. The tire had obviously been slashed recently.

13:04 And you said they were only ten minutes from home, and it was a forty minute drive from the casino. So obviously it wasn't somebody that did this at the casino. Right, There's no way that he could have driven on that tire for thirty miles or whatever. An ambulance was called to the scene and Rob was taken to the hospital for a cut above his left eye that required five stitches. When Rob asked if he was a suspect, O'Brien responded, quote, as much as anyone who rode up or down the parkway last night. The interview was brief. When O'Brien drove Rob home, he fell asleep again in the car. Oh really tired. As residents of Tom's River awoke the next morning, the news of Maria's murder was blasted on the radio, and soon the Marsha's home was flooded with bereaved friends and neighbors.

13:46 Even before a family members, including Maria's parents and Chris, the middle son, were notified of her death. Maria Puzinski grew up in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, with her Polish Catholic parents, Helen and Vincent. When he was just nine years old, Vincent lost his mother and brother in a plane crash. A pilot was getting rides in downtown Philadelphia on Roosevelt Avenue in a flying jenny plane for five dollars. Do you know what a flying jenny plane is? I don't. It's like an old timey plane. Yes, I looked it up and it looks like to me, it looks like an old like Snoopy and Red Barren type plane exactly. In a moment of spontaneity, Missus Puzinski decided to go for a ride and took her youngest son.

14:27 She smiled and waved to the crowd below until the plane rapidly descended and crashed. The incident deeply impacted Vincent, and from then on he was very cautious with his loved ones. He became a doctor who practiced out of his home. Maria was the Pazinski's only child. Growing up, she attended Catholic schools and was sheltered by her parents. She danced ballet and jazz after high school, Maria attended Chestnut Hill College, a private Catholic school in Philadelphia. She commuted by trolley car while still living at home. She met Rob Marshall when she was just fifteen, and then the pair secretly dated until she finally introduced him to her parents when she was in college. Robert Oakley Marshall was born on December sixteenth, nineteen thirty nine, in Queens, New York, to Howard Marshall and Oakley Valentine Weeks. Howard worked in the sporting goods department of Wanamaker's department store and gave tennis lessons on the side. Four more children were born, but it wasn't a happy family. Howard was an alcoholic and couldn't hold down a job for very long.

15:27 The ugly disease got him fired every time he moved his family for a fresh start. They moved frequently and didn't have much money, which might explain Rob's insatiable appetite for material possessions later in life. They had moved ten times by the time Rob was sixteen, New York, Connecticut, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, and most recently Havertown, Pennsylvania. Rob grew tired of his family's nomadic life, he had failed to thrive academically or form any meaningful friendships along the way. In Havertown, Rob retreated to the basement of the Marshall's rented home, played his drums and sulked, wishing he was born to a wealthier family, But the summer of nineteen fifty five brought happier times when he joined a band playing the drums and met fifteen year old Maria Puzinski, the cousin of a bandmate. She was beautiful and sweet, with shiny, long blonde hair that cascaded down her back and eyes as blue as a cloudless day. Maria and Rob kept here.

16:24 That was beautiful writing. That is beautiful writing, very evocative. Well done. Maria and Rob kept their relationship secret for several years because her parents didn't allow her to date, but eventually, when they met him, they weren't impressed. They continued to date. When Rob went to college at Villanova, he had gotten in by the skin of his teeth. While at Villanova, he enrolled in the Navy ROTC program. As he was about to graduate in June nineteen sixty three, he realized his GPA was one point nine, which was one tenth lower than the requirement to enter Navy flight schoolpproached his marketing professor and convinced him to change his d to a C. He was a natural salesman. After he had completed flight training in Florida, he came home and married Maria in his dress uniform on December twenty eighth, nineteen sixty three, much to the chagrin of her parents, who didn't think he was good enough for their daughter, and they were right.

17:19 Rob and Maria spent a year in Florida and then went overseas before he was assigned to the Naval Air Station in Lakehurst, New Jersey. He served as a Navy helicopter pilot from nineteen sixty four to nineteen sixty eight. Once his obligation to the Navy was satisfied, Rob became an insurance salesman in Tom's River, New Jersey. In his first year, he became a top earner for the company, selling over two million dollars in policies. Tom's River was growing rapidly. It was affordable, close to the beach, and not too far from Maria's family. It was the perfect location for the young couple to start their life. Together. Tom's River was a town full of young up and comers, just like Rob. He and Maria bought their first home right before Robbie was born in nineteen sixty five. Rob was proud to be a homeowner, unlike his own father, who was always a renter. Chris came along a year after Robbie. When John, the youngest was born in nineteen seventy one, the Marshals moved to a bigger home in Tom's River. Rob's business continued to boom, and in nineteen seventy three, the Marshals once again moved to a brand new, custom built home and joined the country Club. Rob saw everyone in the blossoming town as a potential client, and eventually he had sold most of the town insurance. Maria and Rob were always perfectly groomed and dressed, wearing the latest fashions, sparing no expense. Their three sons, too, were seemingly perfect, polite, smart, good athletes, and always with fresh haircuts.

18:45 Rob Marshall was the envy of a lot of men in Tom's River. He was a successful businessman, and he and Maria ran in the right social circles. Rob was active in the Rotary Club and served as fundraising chairman for Ocean City United Way from nineteen eighty two to nineteen eighty three, which was one of their best years to date. Maria Marshall was warm and friendly, but kept people at an arm's length. She didn't have a lot of close friends, but her husband and children meant everything to her. She maintained a very carefully curated image. She was never seen with a hair out of place and kept herself in good shape by playing tennis and teaching exercise classes at a local dance studio. It was almost like she was afraid to be seen as anything less than perfect. Maria was her son's number one cheerleader in life, but especially during their swim meets. Donning an enthusiastic foam finger, the Marshals loved to have the whole swim team over for pizza to watch the videos rob made of their meats.

19:39 During Robbie's senior year, Maria was voted the swim team's mother of the Year. Maria was fun and stylish and loved to dress up for a night on the town, but when she was home, she was just mom, likely to be found on the couch in her blue bathrobe watching TV. And asking the boys to join her. She made the best crispy edged pancakes. She helped them with their homework and ca them on task. Her easy smile, warm hugs, and ever present home as she cooked or cleaned would be the things that her sons remembered and missed most. And her famous butterscotch blondies. Doris Jacobi, who owned the dance studio where Maria taught, said quote, people admired her because she seemed to have the ideal family and lifestyle, you know, like you'd see on TV. A nice home, everybody's healthy, real, all American. I guess that's why it's so shocking that sort of thing doesn't happen to people like that. You think. She was very involved with her children and her community. Another resident of Tom's River, Phyllis Bowden, said quote, everyone is shocked, just shocked. Maria is the type of person who would live to be eighty and enjoy every minute of it. She really enjoyed life and herself and being with her husband. She was a super perfect type of wife. I don't know anyone who would want to kill Maria. I don't understand. Maria was extremely outgoing and very friendly. I know she was active in the community. I know she was a busy woman.

21:00 Love the family very much. We'll be back after a break. Suspecting Rob of having an affair, Maria hired a PI around Christmas time nineteen eighty three. She had also hired an attorney to help her with declaring bankruptcy. Rob hadn't been forthcoming about their financial situation, but Maria had recently discovered that Rob had gotten his family deeply into debt, and that he'd forged her signature on a one hundred thousand dollars home equity loan. She was not yet ready to file for divorce. She wanted to save her marriage. Maria's concerns about Rob and their family had escalated in ways she'd never imagined. She suspected he might be involved in organized crime and drug trafficking. Though she hadn't confronted him directly, she had seen enough to believe their family was in real danger. By July, Maria was through with her marriage and told her attorney to draw up divorce papers. However, by the end of the month, she'd changed her and decided to put the divorce on hold.

22:02 That's really crazy. Do you have any idea. Why she thought he might be involved in organized crime and drug trafficking. I think because of the amount of debt he had, and because he was off to Atlantic City all the time, and I think organized crime had kind of started seeping into Tom's river a little bit. Okay, Chris Marshall was just setting into college life in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, at Lehigh University, about two hours from home. His mother worried about him constantly. She'd send him letters with instructions on how to do laundry. Always separate your laundry by color, she cautioned, and fold your clothes right away so they don't wrinkle. Maria was very happy when Chris was elected president of the dorm, proof that he was off to a good start in college.

22:43 On the night of September sixth, while out to dinner at Harrah's, his parents called him to tell him how much they missed him. Sadly, hours later, his mother would be brutally murdered. Rob Marshall is kind of a showy guy, and he made like a big deal of like asking the waiter to bring a phone to the table, because it's nineteen eighty four, we don't have cell phones, so they call their son and it's really sad because I think you can see the writing on the wall what's going to happen. And it was like Rob was giving his son a chance to say about his mother. I mean yeah. The next day, September seventh, Chris was hanging out with friends in his room at about two pm when his father suddenly appeared in his doorway, looking somber and out of place. Rob was there to tell him about Maria's murder and bring him home. Chris was devastated, but he couldn't help wondering if his father was somehow involved.

23:36 He felt incredibly guilty about having this thot and decided he needed to keep it to himself. When they returned to Tom's River, the house was filled with family and friends, including Maria's elderly parents, who Rob's brother in law, Jean, had picked up in his Mercedes. Jean Lahy thirty eight, was a lawyer in Wilmington, Delaware. He and the rest of the Marshall's relatives would stay at the house until the funeral. Rob's best friend Saal was answering the phone and taking messages for Rob in his absence. When Sale told Rob that Stanley Crouschar, the manager of a local auto dealership, had called. He became very nervous and demanded all of the details. Stanley and his wife, Sarah Anne were friends and neighbors of his and Maria's. Well, that's not actually true. Maria found Sarah Anne brash, overly sexual and attention seeking. Sarah Anne was a vice principal at a local high school. Rob began pacing nervously, concerned about the tone of Stanley's message, to the confusion of the people in the room, He told Sail to tell anyone else who called that he was not available. The next morning, Jean told Rob they needed to talk. They went out by the pool to have a serious man to man talk.

24:46 Jean shocked Rob when he told him that Maria had confided to him that Rob had been carrying on a long term affair with Sarah Ann Crowshar, I'm sorry. Remind me again who Jean is. Jeane is married to Rob's sister. Okay, and he was close to Maria also. I think they were very close, and he was an attorney, so I think she felt comfortable confiding in him. Okay. Maria had hired a PI to trail Rob and had even drawn up divorce papers before Rob tried to deny it. Jean told him that Maria had shown him the receipts, his American expressed statement, phone bill, and the home equity loan with Maria's forge signature. Jeane continued. He told Rob that Maria planned to confront him the following Monday, and that she'd asked jean to be present. Rob was furious.

25:34 He said that if he'd known Maria was on to him, he would have left her earlier and she might still be alive. He admitted to Jeanne that he had been involved with Sarah Anne for about fourteen months. They had even rented a beach house and were planning on leaving their spouses as soon as possible to start their life together. He told Jane, quote, you don't understand how much I love Sarah Anne. She makes me feel like I've never felt before. He explained that he and Marie were deep in debt because of her spending. She always had to have the best of everything. Rob tried to convince his brother in law. So Rob made about one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars and today that's three hundred and eighty thousand dollars. Pretty good income.

26:15 That's a really good income. Yeah, and so they were pretty heavily in debt. Well we're going to get into that in a little bit, okay, but it's just crazy. So that was you know, they should have had plenty of money. Yeah, it definitely wasn't her spending that was putting them in debt. She pointed out in his lawyer like way that Rob was suspect number one in Maria's murder because he'd been having an affair. He was in dire financial trouble, he was planning on leaving his wife, and he'd taken out an exorbitant insurance policy on her, not to mention that she'd been murdered while he'd only suffered a minor injury to the head. Rob realized it looked very bad, but was adamant he'd love Maria and would never harm a hair on her head. Rob knew he had to get in front of the news about his relationship with Sarah Anne.

27:02 He had to talk with two of his closest friends and told them that he was having an affair. His friends were incredulous and angry. I've never felt this way before. We are so in love, he told his friends. So this is, you know, days after Maria's death, and he's trying to tell people how in love he is with this other woman. I can't imagine how people would react to that. That knew him like that would be just really not good to hear. Later, he told his sons about his new relationship and told them how in love he was with Sarah Anne quote, I'm going to need to lean on her during this difficult time. I'm sure they were really really excited to hear about that too.

27:42 They were disgusted by their father, but we're too emotionally exhausted to protest. Unlike their father, they were heartbroken over the loss of Maria, unable to stop crying with kids. They were really broken up. The Yeah, it's really heartbreaking because they really really loved their mother. Rob's lawyer was adamant he couldn't see Sarah Anne or contact her in any way. No calls, no letters, nothing, But Rob and Sarah Anne had built their relationship on secrecy and they weren't about to stop now. Throughout their affair, they had exchanged mixtapes, personal audio letters filled with declarations of love to keep their communication alive. Rob rented a safe deposit box and they began leaving cassette tapes for each other at the bank, slipping messages back and forth in a way they hoped no one would discover. Boy. So this was a really big story in New Jersey at the time, and the media was camped out in front of the Marshall house waiting for them to make a statement. Rob knew everything he said and did was under a microscope, so he told nineteen year old Robbie that it was his responsibility to be the family spokesperson. Poor grief stricken Robbie walked to the end of the driveway, choking back tears as he spoke to the media about his beloved mother. Quote, she wanted everyone to like her, and they all did.

29:01 You really didn't have to know my mom to love her, You just had to know of her. She's one of a kind. How can I put it in words? We have friends in and out all day and it's like, even though my mom is gone, she's taking care of us through her friends because they loved her too. She was just a classy, beautiful lady. My father's still trying to get over the shock so my brothers and I have decided we're going to be tough for him. He needs it now. We're going to do as much as we can to take care of everything my mom would have. That was really well said by Robbie. But that's so horrible of his dad to put him in that position. Nineteen years old, he's still basically a kid. And yeah, you go talk to the media. Yeah. My impression of the boys, especially the two older boys, that they were just really great kids.

29:44 Yeah. Maria's family offered a ten thousand dollar reward for any information about her death, but many in the Toms River area began to look to Rob as a suspect. Two questions loomed. Why did he stop in the dark picnicarya to check the tire? And why had Maria been shot and not him? Those are good questions, right, Yeah. On September thirteenth, nineteen eighty four, Rob told the Asbury Park Press quote, absolutely not. I did not hire anybody to kill my wife. She's so beautiful. She really was a good lady. I know she loved me terribly, and I loved her in spite of her problems. I loved her. Rob knew that public opinion was turning against him. His sister had been in town. She was in a dressing room and she heard like people in the dressing area like talking about Maria and Rob. And people were like, well, you know, he was having an affair and I'm sure he had her killed. Blah blah blah.

30:41 An autopsy confirmed that Maria's death was caused by the two bullet wounds. She was shot once in the lung and once in the aorda. The two bullets were centimeters apart and at close range. The trajectory of the bullets indicated that she had been slumped over the seat when she was shot, and likely sleeping. It appeared to be a professional killing. I haven't heard anything about a toxicology report, but I wonder if she could have been drugged, because it would be surprising that she would be able to sleep through. Yeah. He pulled off the road. And many got out of the car. Yeah, so I think that he may have drugged her. Yeah, it sounds likely. Rob quickly began making funeral arrangements. He decided to have Maria's body cremated as quickly as possible.

31:23 But that does seem to be a theme we hear over and over. He planned to have a mass at Saint Joseph's and then have a reception at the Marshall home. During the reception, Rob was almost festive, passing out drinks and food circulating the room. It was off putting to many of the mourners. The whispers started that maybe Rob had something to do with Maria's death. A friend of Maria's was heard yelling at Rob, you'd better not have had anything to do with this. She was bold enough to say what a lot of people were thinking. The police brought Sarah Ann Kraushawer in for questioning after pulling her over on the highway. She was read her rights and immediately asked for an attorney. Two attorneys actually. She admitted that she and Rob had been carrying on an affair for over a year. She told the detectives about the rented beach house and that they had even opened a joint checking account. The plan was that they would both tell their spouses they were leaving them in the next few days and start their life together. Her husband, Stanley, furious upon learning about the affair after Maria's death, kicked her out of their house. Sarah Anne was now living in the beach house on her own. Sarah Anne wasn't well liked by the women in Tom's River. She was flashy, haughty, and liked to be the center of attention. Maria, who liked everyone, actively disliked Sarah Anne. Despite strict warnings from both of their attorneys to sever all contact, Rob and Sarah Anne ignored the advice. Less than a week after Maria's murder, they resumed their affair, carrying on their relationship.

32:49 So if he was truly planning on leaving Maria for Sarah Anne, that would seem to point in the direction that he did not do that, because if he was really planning on leaving her, why would he kill her. It's like, you haven't heard these stories one hundred and fifty times and you don't know that it could be for insurance reasons. I guess, so I just, yeah, I just don't get it. But yeah, there's kind of a wild story that Chris and Robbie were going to prom like you know, the previous May and the affair had already started, and Rob told them, why do you go see missus krousher? She would love to see you guys in their tuxes. They were like why, Like, why would why would she care? They've lived like a couple of blocks up the street.

33:30 So the boys were like, all right, well we'll do that. And it's super awkward. Very bizarre and awkward. On Friday September twenty first, two weeks after Maria's murder, Rob started feeling good. Sarah Ann was by his side, and while his sons weren't happy, they were settling into a new normal. The police had left him alone since the night of Maria's murder, but on that Friday, two detectives showed up at his door. They asked him if he was acquainted with a man named James Davis from Shreveport, Louisiana. A slight tremor appeared in Rob's right hand that held his drink, rattling the ice cubes. Later, in his official report, the detective said Rob was visibly shaken, like a fellow who had just heard some very bad news. Upon hearing the name, how about Billy Wayne McKinnon, the detective pressed. Marshall refused to answer any questions and referred the detectives to his lawyer, John Russo. Unbeknownst to the officers, Russo had quit working for Rob five days earlier. The next day, he sought the counsel of a new attorney, Carl Seely, who was known for his work with mobsters. Rob sold his boat for six thousand dollars to pay his new attorney's retainer.

34:38 The next day, James Davis called Rob's house. Robbie answered. Davis told Robbie that it was urgent that his father returned his call as soon as possible. Rob dismissed the call as nothing. To Robbie, he explained it away as a gambling debt and promised that he had paid it. A few days later, it was announced that a man named Robert Cumber was indicted by a grand jury form her conspiracy to commit the murder of Maria Marshall. Cumber was retired military and lived on the outskirts of Shreveport, Louisiana. He worked in a hardware store. It was unclear how this man was connected to New Jersey and the Marshals. After the arrest, Sarah Anne ended the affair with Rob. She had found out that he had been deceptive about his financial situation, among other things. She no longer trusted him.

35:25 Now she was really ready to cooperate with the investigation, James Churchill, the lieutenant in charge of homicide, reached out to a detective in Shreveport, asking him to track down Robert Cumber. Investigators had connected Cumber to Rob Marshall through phone records, revealing that the two had exchanged thirty one calls since first meeting in June. They found him at the hardware store where he worked. When approached by the detective, Cumber was visibly on edge, so nervous he looked ready to jump out of his skin. Reluctantly, he admitted that he knew Rob Marshall. He explained that they had met at a birthday part for John Riccio, a man in the stanitation business with ties to organized crime. Cumber recalled sitting alone at the bar when Rob struck up a conversation. Rob, who had recently started a state planning, offered to help Cumber open an IRA, but then the conversation took a darker turn. Marshall asked if Cumber knew anyone who could help him investigate his wife, Maria.

36:22 This Cumber guy, we don't really know why he was at this party. He was from Louisiana, and he said that he went to New Jersey for this birthday party and then he met Rob. He was sitting alone at the bar. So it's been kind of implied that someone must have sent him there, oh to help Rob with his quote investigation. Well, who would have sent him there? I don't know. It's been rumored that Sarah Anne, who had very good attorneys, could have helped arrange it, or maybe one of these guys who had ties to the organized crime families. It's unsure how this guy got there, but it didn't seem like he really knew the people who were having the birthday party, Okay, So yeah, it did seem like someone sent him there, like, oh, this guy needs help arranging this hit.

37:16 Okay. On September eighteenth, three detectives Churchill, Mancuzo, and O'Brien traveled to Louisiana to meet with Robert Cumber. Investigators also stopped at the home of James Davis to ask why he had made two trips to New Jersey, one on the day that Maria Marshall had been killed. When he was less than forthcoming and denied ever having stepped foot in the state of New Jersey, they went to a judge for a search warrant. In a desk drawer at Davis's house, Mancuzo found a receipt for a Western Union money order sent to him from James McAllister in Tom's River on June twenty fifth. They also found a note on a piece of paper stamped with the hardware store logo where Cumber worked. The name James McAllister was written with his Philadelphia address and a note that said he was sending a three thousand dollars money order to James Davis.

38:04 The New Jersey Detectives issued a search warrant on the Shreveport Western Union office for any money orders received by James Davis from Tom's River. He received two, one for three thousand dollars from James McAllister and one for twenty five hundred dollars from Rob Marshall. So this is very confusing, this whole part. The name James McAllister was an alias that Rob Marshall was using. Okay, the Rob. Marshall sent two money orders through Western Union from Tom's River to these people in Louisiana. But why would he send one from his own name and one from the alias? Because he's Tom all right. I just wanted to make sure it was clear on that. I think he was like he thought that he was going to get away with it, and then he realized, you know what, I should probably be a little craft.

38:50 Here, okay. Davis's wife took the officers aside and told them to look into a former police officer named Billy Wayne McKinnon. He was friends with Davis and a bad man capable of murder. McKinnon had been fired after the theft of a truckload of plywood in an investigation he was involved in. Since his time as a police officer, he had been involved in illegal car sales and driven the getaway car in a few bank robberies, but had skirted the law thus far, possibly because he sometimes fed information to the police about his gang's activities. Davis claimed he was just an intermediary. He had nothing to do with Maria's death. We'll be back after a break.

39:37 On September twenty seventh, nineteen eighty four, Rob Marshall checked into the Best Western Hotel in Lakewood, his preferred rendezvous spot with Sarah Anne. He requested Room sixteen, their special room. He opened fifty sleeping pill capsules, pouring the contents into a bottle of Coca cola. He placed a picture of his perfect family on the bedside table. While he waited for the metas and two dissolve. He put a cassette into the tape recorder and composed three messages for his sons and one for Jean Layy, his brother in law. Here's his letter to Robbie quote. As I lay here looking at your beautiful face, with your mother right next to it, and Chris and John, I can only think how much I love you, and the fact that I have loved you almost as long as Mom. Robbie, I hope that someday you'll understand that I could just not go through this ordeal. You know that I wouldn't hurt Mom, but there's so much stuff that so many people try to make it seem as though I would, and I feel the inevitable will happen, and I will be dragged through the courts and found guilty, and I can't bear that, not for me or you. So I'm taking the short cut, buddy, to be with Mom. I hope I know where she is, and I will pray to God this evening that he lets me be with her. I know this makes it awful tough on you because you're left to deal with everything.

40:50 But I know how strong you are and I know you can do it. You're the oldest and the biggest, and I want you to be strong for everybody. Be a leader. Finish school, go back to Villanova in January, and kick ass. As Chris says, do the best you possibly can. Go to law school, get your own practice, whatever, and go for it. Robbie. I know you said you want to be president someday, and God I think you can. I believe you can. But whatever you do, do the best, do the best you can, give it everything. Never forget your family. And that's talking about me and Mom and Chris and John and Me and Haleayhes and all your cousins and the nice people like Sale Coucaro who's been so helpful. Robbie. I'm so proud of you. You've grown up to be such an intelligent, bright young man. I just know that you're going to do so well for yourself.

41:36 By the way, I told Uncle Jean to arrange the purchase of the Mustang for you so you'll have a car. Robbie, I'm so proud of you. Please be strong and never forget how much I love you. I love you so much. The tapes for the other two boys were very, very similar, except he promised Chris ajeep and John a Porsche. Those letters make me so angry, like to put all of that on your sons. It's just ridiculous. It is. In his letter to Jean, Rob described a year's long flirtation with Sarah Anne that blossomed into their torrid, passionate love affair. He has Geene several times to relate to Sarah Anne how much he loved her, and closed with referring to Maria quote, I want to be with her, and I pray God will allow me to because I can't go on like this. But in the tape to Jean, he also talked about the investigation into missing Blackjack proceeds and the reason that he hired out of state investigators.

42:30 He left the envelope with the tapes at the front desk for them to mail. He'd written on the envelope to be opened in the event of my death, then returned to his room, dipped his finger into the tainted coke, licked it, and promptly fell asleep. He later said that he'd intended to die at the exact same time that Maria had died, but he didn't wake up in time to die at the same time. I'm certain to wonder if Rob has an arcolepsy or so. It's a powerful thing to say. He just seems to fall asleep at the most unusual times. Unbeknownst to Rob, the hotel clerk recognized him and had heard the news reports about him being a possible suspect in his wife's murder. He called the police. Three plain clothes detectives rented room seventeen right next to Rob and kept a close eye on him. After he dropped off the envelope at the front desk with the cassette tapes, they retrieved it. They tried to call Rob several times, and when he didn't answer, they called an ambulance and broke into his room. Later, investigators had to get a search warrant to listen to the tapes, and when they did, they revealed Rob to be even more calculating and dishonest than they'd realized. I think they were hoping for a confession from Rob, and that was not on the tapes.

43:46 He just continued to well, as you read like the Robby letters deny everything yea. Although Rob hadn't drunk the poisoned beverage, he was taken to the hospital for observation. His sons were all heartbroken and furious. Chris refused to see him at first, but they knew the only way to get through their grief was together. The boys needed their father as much as he needed them, but Rob was using his sons to appear sympathetic, and sadly, the boys just really needed their father's love and support. Sarah Ann breaking up with Rob was likely the impetus of his suicide attempt, if you even believe it was a real suicide attempt. She continued to ignore Rob, much to his tornament. He was taken to Philadelphia to an inpatient psychiatric program, seventy miles from Tom's River. Rob tasked Robbie with delivering his mail and work to him each evening.

44:37 After Robbie had finished his classes at the local community college and his job at a shoe store at the mall, John the youngest child, went to live with his uncle and aunt. It was all too much for Robbie, who was more sensitive than he let on. He was left in the big empty house on his own. The happy memories of his family's laughter long gone rang through his years. On October fifteenth, he punched the wind shield of his car, shattering it with his hand. He tore off into the night, driving over one hundred miles an hour in his yellow Mustang, screaming and crying in a fit of furious rage and hurt, intending to take his life by driving off the bridge. When he got to the bridge, the song take the Long Way Home came on the radio, and he remembered listening to the song with Maria after she'd picked him up from a swim practice, laughing and enjoying the song with her son in the car, wherea actually took the long way home, surprising Robbie. The song and memory were enough to calm him down and help him realize that he needed help. He drove to his uncle Sale's house and knocked on the door in the early morning hours.

45:38 He asked Sail to help him. Robbie spent three days in the hospital before he signed himself out. So what do you think of Rob Marshall so far? I don't really care for him A little bit. Stir back, right, Yeah, I think you're gonna hate him. Even more hell boy. When Rob returned to Tom's River after spending two weeks in the hospital, he implored Sara Anne to give him another chance. He sent flowers, letters, and left her messages, but she didn't respond. He began hanging out at the lounge at the Holiday Inn, bringing different women home each night. I have needs, he told his boys with a wink. Sadly, his needs were the only ones that mattered to him. His sons were all struggling, but he didn't seem to notice or care. A woman named Terry became his new girlfriend. A couple of weeks into the relationship, they went to Florida for the weekend and stayed with some friends of Rob's, the Stevens. During the weekend, Rob and Mollie Stevens decided they were in love and wanted a future together. Rob broke it off with Terry, quote, You'll love Mollie. She's just like mom, he promised. The boys.

46:41 You're right, You're right. I hate him more. Tom's River No Apostrophe is a township in Ocean County that sits along the Jersey Shore, offering access to beaches, marinas, and waterfront activities. It is known for its coastal charm, family friendly atmosphere, and historical significance. Tom's River has a mix of suburban and small town vibes, with a thriving local economy, good schools, and a vibrant community. Today, it has a population of about one hundred thousand. During the nineteenth century, Toms River was a center for shipbuilding, whaling, fishing, and iron and lumber production. The town gained national attention when in nineteen seventy eight, the movie The Amityville Horror was filmed there. After, officials in Amityville, New York, would not allow the film to be made there. Our friends at Severed Podcasts have a really, really good series on The Amityville Horror. There was also a notorious corporate environmental contamination scandal that led to eighty seven children. I think it might have been all girls who were stricken with cancer.

47:42 Between nineteen seventy nine and nineteen ninety five, b Asf, a German chemical company, dumped toxic waste into the water and buried forty seven thousand drums of toxic waste underground. The company was charged criminally, heavily fined, and forced to pay three hundred million dollars to clean up the site. A settlement of sixteen point two million dollars was paid to the sixty nine families whose children were diagnosed with cancer, which, in my opinion, is not nearly enough. Oh that's so horrible. Vincent Jimmy Sinatra Craparata, a mobster with ties to the Lucchesi crime family, was sent to Tom's River to establish a gambling a loan shark operation. Seeing the burgeoning real estate market in the town, he started a building company.

48:26 He was whacked by men wearing ski masks wielding golf clubs at his used car lot on June twelfth, nineteen eighty four, reportedly to scare his nephews into giving the Luchesi crime family a cut from earnings on their video poker machines. I'm probably saying that name wrong. I don't know if you are or not. Actually, my primary source for this episode is a book called Blind Faith, written by Joe McGuinness, and I have wanted to read this book for a while because Joe McGuinness wrote the book Fatal Vision, which the Jeffrey McDonald's story is based on, and I enjoyed the book so much I wanted to read this book for this story. But Joe McGuinness has been criticized by the citizens of Tom's River for his portrayal of the town. In his book, he portrayed them as shallow, materialistic, power hungry social climbers, you know, like Rob. He alluded that some had close ties with New Jersey crime families and affairs were commonplace, while there was a small group of people that might fit that characterization. Most people on Tom's River are hard working and family oriented, and most residents found Rob Marshall obnoxious, pompous, and a bore. But after Maria's murder, Tom's River became a town where rumors flowed faster than the truth. The Marshall family scandal was too salacious not to become the main topic of conversation. The town felt empathy for the three boys, all known to be good kids, but they also kept their distance. Tom's River folk didn't like how messy Rob Marshall was acting since Maria's death. Once a town leader and prominent businessman, he was acting like a more less frat boy.

49:58 In October nineteen eighty four, two more men were arrested in Shreveport, Louisiana, and charged with conspiracy to commit murder in connection to Maria Marshall's death. James Davis forty nine and Billy Wayne McKinnon forty two, were each held on a one million dollar bond, while Robert Cumber, forty seven, who had been arrested weeks earlier, was held on a one point five million dollar bond. McKinnon had previously served as a deputy sheriff for twelve years before being dismissed in nineteen seventy seven. Upon these arrests, Carl Seal, Rob's attorney told the media, quote, based on the prosecutor's theory, then logic would dictate that at some point in time there going to return or unseal an indictment against my client.

50:40 Robert Cumber denied any knowledge of Maria's murder, but did admit to meeting Rob at a birthday party in New Jersey and connecting him with Billy Wayne McKinnon. Rob claimed that there was money missing from his special Blackjack bank account, and he suspected Maria of stealing the money and possibly having an affair. He wanted to hire a private investigator from out of state to investigate her. He was so well known in Tom's River and Atlantic City that he couldn't use someone local, he rationalized. So this was an ongoing thing that Rob would tell everyone, the police like, he wanted to do this investigation of Maria because she was stealing money from his accounts. Right. This makes no sense obviously, because if money was missing from your account, wouldn't you just call the bank and say, you know who made that two thousand dollars withdrawl or whatever? Right, But you know, he wants to make it seem like Maria is being shady. Yeah, and there is absolutely no evidence that she was having an affair.

51:38 In December, the three men were extradited to New Jersey and held in solitary confinement so they couldn't communicate with each other. Remember when the man came to the Marshall home before they left for lunch at the club on the last day of Maria's life, I do, I did not, but now I do. Before he left, he told Maria to have a nice vacation, which was a very kind of a cryptic remark. That man was Phil Gerard, an insurance salesman. Rob had called him on the morning of September sixth and told him he needed to rush a one hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy on his wife because she was leaving for vacation. After Gerard heard of Maria's death, he went to the police. Investigators were shocked when they uncovered the staggering amount of life insurance policies on Maria Marshall. In addition to two one hundred thousand dollars policies issued years earlier by Rob's own company, Provident Mutual, there were several more valuable policies five hundred thousand dollars from Banner Life in September of nineteen eighty three, five hundred thousand dollars from Manhattan Life in February of nineteen eighty four, one hundred thousand dollars from Fireman's Fund also February nineteen eighty four, and one hundred thousand dollars from Minnesota Mutual issued in April of nineteen eighty four. That brought the total to one point five million dollars, one point three million of it acquired after Rob began his affair with Sarah Ann. Rob, of course, was the benefit fishiary on all of the policies, and the value of those policies today is around four point three million dollars.

53:06 That's so much money. That is a lot of life insurance to have on your wife. And she did not have an income, right, she was staying at home or she. Was a stay at home mom. Yeah, so that's really not common to have that much. Rob said, and his defense that he wanted that much insurance on her because it was a good sales tool. If he was selling you insurance, he would be like, well, rich, you need to have at least a one point five million dollars on Tina because that's what I have on Maria. And he couldn't have just said that, he had to actually go buy the insurance points because salesman, they never lie about things like that. Okay. Additionally, investigators learned that Marshall had visited the Harris casino twenty five times between January and September.

53:49 What do you think about that? So that's nine months, So that's about what the thirty six weeks? Three times once a week or so, not quite once a week. Yeah, I guess it's not unreasonable, but it sounds like he was also a high roller too, so probably not a good good thing. Read on, he had played blackjack for ninety three hours. His average bat was one hundred and thirty one dollars. So again triple that. Yeah, so four hundred dollars a bat, that's a lot. For blackjack, that's a lot. You can lose a lot of money very quickly. Believe me. I know you do that. I mean, I can, you know, take my own like five dollars bets and extrapolate from that. He had a line of credit at the casino for ten thousand dollars.

54:30 He owed them three thousand dollars. I was surprised by this amount of detail in the research. He played for ninety three hours, Like, is that typical casinos? I don't know. I would think maybe today it's fairly typical that they would know that because there's so much more data. And having nineteen eighty four. Yeah, like today, like you would be scanning a card, yeah, yeah, but in nineteen eighty four, I don't think you would have that computer backup. No, I would not think that either. But Rob loved his comps, and maybe because he was a high roller they did maybe they kept track track. Yeah, I guess that would make sense. Can you imagine having a line of credit at the casino. Let's say you had a thirty thousand dollars line of credit at the casino.

55:11 I would can't imagine that at all. No, No, that's that would be really I would kill you. Yeah, No, I can't. I wouldn't kill you. I mean I would move angry ups. Are you careful what we say here? As investigators delved into the Marshall's finances, they discovered that they were deeply in debt, and it was likely Maria had no idea how dire things were. Okay, let me preface like she knew it was bad, but I don't think she knew how bad it was. Yeah. A credit check revealed credit cards maxed out and several personal loans. The one hundred thousand dollars home equity loan had been raised to one hundred and thirty thousand dollars in the spring, a twenty thousand dollars loan from the First National Bank of Tom's River in April, and in May another fifteen thousand dollars loan from the same bank, a thirty thousand dollars loan from the Navy Federal Credit Union, a twelve thousand dollars loan from City Bank. Rob invested fifty thousand dollars from money obtained through the second mortgage on his home in the stock market, hoping to make a quick buck, but it tanked. The total amount of Rob Marshall's debt was a staggering three hundred thirty four thousand, seven hundred and twenty eight dollars and ninety two cents.

56:22 And again triple that. So we're at over a million dollars? Are you okay? Is that stressing? That totally is stressing? Stresses me out too, which is I can't And remember he's his business I think is going well and he's making did we stay nearly four hundred thousand dollars a year? So yeah, Holy cow, that's a lot of money. There was no way Rob could afford to continue to support Maria and their sons, pay college tuition for two of them, and set up a new life with Sarah Ann. Prosecutors offered Billy Wayne McKinnon a plea deal. If their investigation did not find he was the shooter, he would serve a small sentence, and then he and his family could be relocated through the Federal Witness pre Protection program. He took the deal and told his story he had been connected with Rob Marshall through Robert Cumber, who knew him through the hardware store. Cumber was vague with McKinnon, but said that Marshall wanted to hire him to do some investigative work. McKinnon and Rob had talked on the phone, but Rob wanted him to come to New Jersey. He sent him two payments totaling five thousand dollars through Western Union in early June. McKinnon flew to New Jersey and booked a room at hera's. He met Rob in person.

57:28 That's when Rob told him he wanted his wife dad. McKinnon said he wanted one hundred thousand dollars for the job, but Rob talked him down to sixty thousand. Rob gave McKinnon another ten thousand dollars that day from his casino credit line and promised to pay him fifty thousand dollars after he collected the insurance money. Isn't it crazy the different amounts that people pay for a hitman. I think we've seen amounts as low as like four thousand dollars, and yeah, it. Really is kind of wild. It varies wildly. Yeah, Rob already had a plan in place. He was going to take Maria to the Ramshead restaurant for dinner. After dinner, he would tell Maria he needed to run in and use the bathroom before they left. Rob had a notoriously small bladder, and that was when McKinnon should strike. At about ten thirty pm. He gave explicit instructions not to mar Maria's beautiful face, what a guy? Yeah really. In preparation, McKinnon drove to the rams Head and thought it was too well lit and busy for such a crime to take place, but he hadn't even brought a weapon along.

58:30 He had no intention of killing anyone. Rob angrily called him the next morning and asked if he could come back in a few days and try again. So Rob, they had driven to the restaurant and Rob thought that he was going to shoot his wife, but it didn't happen. McKinnon returned in July to make good on his promise, but he told Rob he would need another seven thousand dollars, and when they met in person, Rob gave him seven thousand dollars. In casino chips, MacKinnon described Rob's demeanor as desperate. It appeared that McKinnon had been avoiding Rob possibly taking his money without any intention of completing the murder. However, on September fifth, McKinnon returned after hearing rumors that Rob might put a contract out on him if he didn't follow through. Rob sweetened the deal, offering an additional fifteen thousand dollars if McKinnon completed the job quickly. This time, McKinnon brought a friend named Larry Thompson along to New Jersey. Thompson, a career criminal, had a lengthy history of bank robberies.

59:28 He had robbed over fifty banks. He was also a suspect in multiple murders, including the nineteen seventy seven death of his wife. On the morning of September sixth, Billy Wayne McKinnon called Rob from a payphone to arrange the hit for that night. They went together scouting locations and decided on the Oyster Creek picnic area. They arranged to meet at the casino later that night to exchange the extra fifteen thousand dollars payment. The plan originally called for Rob to be shot, but he was adamant that he did not want to be shot or take a hard hit to the head. At midnight, McKinnon dropped Thompson off at the picnic area to lie and wait for Rob and Maria. He drove to a spot where he would see Rob's Ivory Cadillac El Dorado drive by. After he saw Rob's car pass, he waited a few minutes and then drove to the picnic area and picked Thompson up.

1:00:16 After he had shot Maria, Thompson snatched Maria's purse. The plan went off without a hitch. On their way back to their hotel in Atlantic City, they threw the murder weapon and Maria's purse out the car window. To celebrate, They went out to a restaurant for a steak dinner and then picked up two sex workers and brought them back to their hotel. Every detail of McKinnon's account was corroborated by the investigation. Phone records, financial transactions, and witness statements all aligned with his story. Detectives traced the money trail, confirmed his trips to New Jersey, and even verified his meetings with Rob. The evidence left little doubt that McKinnon was telling the truth. We'll be back after a break.

1:01:03 On December eighteenth, nineteen eighty four, in Stanton, the Louisiana, Larry Thompson was arrested for the murder of Maria Marshall. Days after McKinnon's twenty five page sworn statement and plea deal. Larry was nabbed at his new wife's Hamburger stand Jumbos. On that same day. Rob Marshall was arrested while out Christmas shopping for his three sons, his car filled with expensive gifts that he couldn't afford. It was rumored that he was looking into flights to Costa Rica, so the police felt compelled to act quickly. He was held on two million dollars bail. The boys were not exactly thriving, but doing well considering the circumstances. Robbie had made good on his promise to his mother and had returned to Villanova University and Chris to Lehigh. John remained in the family home with a family friend named Tessie McBride. Tessi emphatically believed that Rob was innocent and encouraged the boys to stand together to support him. His public opinions soured on Rob Marty. The people of Tom's River distanced themselves from the family. Many people were sure of Rob's guilt.

1:02:07 Rob and Larry Thompson were being tried together. They'd never met in person before the trial started. This is very strange. But Larry Thompson's wife moved in to the Marshall home well. The trial was going on. Yeah, okay, that is very strange. Because Tessie was like she was in charge and she would only let people around that believed in Rob's innocents. And you know, a venue change was granted by the judge. The trial was moved from Ocean County to Mary's Landing in Atlantic County, about twelve miles inland from Atlantic City. Three of the jury members worked at local casinos. Billy McKinnon, with his Sweetheart of a plea deal, spent several days on the witness stand. Thompson's attorney spent most of the time trying to discredit him. Three weeks into the trial, Sarah and testified. The courtroom was filled to capacity that day.

1:02:59 Sarah Anne did receive immunity for her testimony. She testified that months into their affair, Rob said, quote, I swear if there was a way that I could either do away with or get rid of her, I would He asked Sarah Anne if she knew anyone who could do the job. Appalled that he could be so ruthless and cold, she demanded he never speak of it again. Sarah Anne's testimony wasn't finished, but the court recess for the long President's Day holiday. Over the weekend, a story broke that Rob was not the only affair that she'd had. It's not really clear if Sarah Anne had any involvement in plotting Maria's death or not. Yeah, I mean, it seems weird that he would say something like he wanted to find someone to kill her and that she wouldn't leave him right then, So it makes me think maybe she was a little more involved than she's and why did.

1:03:47 She need immunity right? Rob Marshall took the stand next. Chris was in the courtroom, but Robbie had reached his limit. He stayed at school, unable to hear anymore. As Rob professed his innocence and declared his undying love for Maria, the prosecutor cut through his performance with a brutal question, quote, then tell me, sir, why are her ashes still sitting in a brown cardboard box abandoned in a desk drawer at the funeral home? So sad? The rest of Rob's testimony unraveled just as quickly, his lies were exposed, his deceit laid bare, and the polished image that he tried so hard to maintain crumbled in front of the courtroom the weight of judgment pressed down on him.

1:04:28 I'm a little surprised he decided to testify as on his own behalf, But I think that just shows you he was pretty arrogant, like he thought he could probably convince everyone. I kind of think he thought he was cooked and he really had nothing to lose. But the person whose belief mattered most to Rob was his son, Chris, and as the prosecutor relentlessly dismantled his father's facade, Chris saw the truth a weak man, incapable of redemption. Any lingering hope that he had that his father might be innocent disintegrated that morning. Whatever admiration or respect had left for Rob vanished with his testimony. Later that afternoon, John and Chris both were called to testify. That evening. Rob reached out to Robbie, pleading with him to come to court the following day to testify. Robbie expressed doubt, feeling that there was nothing he could do or say that would alter the jury's impression of Rob. But Rob pressed him, asking him if he could recall the morning of Maria's death.

1:05:23 But Rob asked him if he could maybe re remember the morning of the day of Maria's death. He asked him to testify that he was home, that Rob was home until they left for the club. You remember, like, so they were going to the club and Rob wasn't home. And then remember that insurance guy showed up, right, so Rob had come in. He'd been somewhere and no one really knew where he had been that morning. This guy is just such a the fact that he would ask his kids to lie for him, It's just another thing. Well, that morning Rob was actually with Billy Wayne McKinnon out scouting locations to kill Maria. Okay, Robbie did testify the next day, but he chose to tell the truth. His mother deserved justice. Larry Thompson took the stand the next day. He denied shooting Maria. Six witnesses, including his brother, his teenage son, and his wife, testified that they remembered Larry had been with them in Louisiana on September sixth and seventh. Do you remember that After Billy and Larry left the crime scene, they picked up two sex workers.

1:06:24 Investigators could not locate the women, but they may have been the only ones that would have been able to place Larry in New Jersey on September sixth and seventh. There was no other evidence linking Larry Thompson to Maria's murder. Just the word of Billy Wayne McKinnon. Interesting, and back then there weren't like all, you know, they wouldn't be able to track somebody, right, you know, with cameras and all this other stuff. Yeah, so Billy Wayne had made the reservation at the hotel. You know, it was his car, and the weapon actually belonged to him. So bad planning on his part, well or good because he did get the sweetheart of a deal. In the small town of May's Landing, where the trial had taken place, a seldom used bell tower sat atop the courthouse. It hadn't been used in a long time, and it, had the death penalty not been reinstated in New Jersey, it may never have been used again. But on eleven fifteen am on March fifth, nineteen eighty six, the bells rang out to notify the residence that a verdict had been reached in a murder case in which the death penalty was at stake.

1:07:30 That's really interesting. Yeah, First, the verdict in Larry's case was read not guilty. He was a free man. His co defendant wasn't so fortunate. Robert Oakley Marshall was found guilty of capital murder. His three sons sobbed when the verdict was read. Rob collapsed and was taken by ambulance to the hospital. He was fine, just overwrought with emotion. He was taken back to the courthouse. The penalty phase of the trial was set to begin at one thirty pm. Both lawyers gave their arguments, and the same jury deliberated before they decided on a sentence of death by lethal injection. The state of New Jersey had not executed anyone since nineteen sixty three. Rob Marshall remained on death row for eighteen years. At the time.

1:08:15 He was the man who'd been on death row the longest. He was there until two thousand and six, when a judge ruled that he'd been inadequately represented at the trial and he was resentenced to thirty years to life. During the sentencing or the resentencing Marshall admitted to quote terrible mistakes and said he accepted quote full responsibility that my actions led to her death, although not specifically confessing to hiring someone to kill Maria. At this hearing, John Marshall testified for a lighter sentence for his father, and Chris Marshall was there and asked for a longer sentence. Chris did admit that he was glad that his father was taken off of death row. He said that he had forgiven him, but did not forgive what he did. So this whole time, Marshall, the youngest son, had supported his father.

1:09:03 Really he said that he was innocent, but Robbie and Chris did not support their father. If you remember, three men were originally arrested in connection with Maria's murder in Louisiana, one of them James Davis. He was released in July of nineteen eighty five citing no probable cause against him. What had happened was James Davis was the alias that Billy McKinnon used, and the money order was sent to James Davis, and he actually had to go pick up the money, but then he gave it to McKinnon. And remember he had said that he never set foot in New Jersey, and that actually was true. He really wasn't involved other than McKinnon using his name. Robert Cumbert was sentenced to thirty years to life in prison for conspiracy to commit murder. He'd been offered a plea deal, but took his chances by going to trial. He was granted clemency by the New Jersey governor in two in January two thousand and six.

1:10:03 Can you recap his part of this whole plot, because there's a lot of people involved in the plot. I'm not sure exactly what did what did cumber do? So cumber was the one who worked in the hardware store, and he was the one who originally met Rob Marshall at that birthday party and he connected him with McKinnon. He wasn't there at the scene of the crime or anything. I don't think other than that birthday party he ever went back to New Jersey. Okay. So I was surprised by the sentence. It seemed really harsh, and I don't know if it's because they weren't They didn't have the shooter and they really wanted the shooter, and maybe that's why he got a harder sentence because they thought that maybe he could have been the shooter. Billy Wayne McKinnon just served three months. After the trial, he entered the witness Protection program but left after a few weeks because he felt too restricted. He returned to Louisiana, and I don't believe he got in trouble with the law again. Larry Thompson and his wife filed a fifty million dollar lawsuit against the state of New Jersey fifty million in May nineteen eighty eight. Thompson lost his case after a two week trial. In twenty fourteen, Thompson, protected by double jeopardy laws and his family covered by statute of limitations, admitted to being the trigger man and the murder of William Marshall. His family members fabricated his alibi. However, he was sentenced to fifty years in Louisiana for an unrelated crime, an armored car robbery and the attempted murder of a Shreveport police officer.

1:11:33 Oh wow, that's wild. So obviously they couldn't try him again because of double jeopardy laws, like you said, But could his family? Could they have arrested or could his family have gotten in trouble for lying for him. The Statute of Limitations was up on that trind so that's why he felt comfortable. Gotcha, Wow, that's wild. But when that happened a lot of times, you know prosecutors will be like, well, you know, I saw you J walking right. Chris Marshall and his junior year of college, wrote his father the following letter on April first, nineteen eighty seven, more than a year after his conviction. Dad. The following is a response to your most recent letter and a collection of recent thoughts. There is no particular order to these, but I feel the point is clear. One. I think you're guilty. Two hate you for what you did to Mom. Three. I hate you for what you did to Grandpop. Four. I hate you for what you did to Grandmom. Five, I hate you for what you did to our family. Six, I hate you for what you did to John. Seven, I hate you for what you did to Robbie. Eight I hate you for what you did to me. I hate having to talk to you on the phone in the future. If you want to call, make it person to person for John. Otherwise I will not accept. I hate getting letters from you.

1:12:39 Do not respond to this one I will not read it. Any letter I received from you from now on, I'm not going to open. If you must contact me, do so through my lawyer, Eugene Lahy. You were right about one thing. I will do what I want, just like you always did. The differences. I'm not going to kill anybody doing it. Your son, Chris, Good for Chris. The Marshall home was sold that summer, and the boys had a yard sale and sold most of their parents' possessions. Robbie said quote, It's a life with a completely different set of values. I don't look at the lack of money as being a flaw anymore. Now I look at it being an asset because it can make you a down to earth person. My girlfriend and I we do things like go for walks, things that don't cost any money.

1:13:22 I mean, I guess it shouldn't have taken me twenty years and the death of my mother to understand this. But you don't have to spend any money to have fun, and you don't have to have money to be worth loving. I feel like I have everything again. Another thing I've come to accept, and this one's been harder, is that the loss will never go away. It's like I used to feel. Hey, I should be over this by now. I'm not ever going to be over it. I see a station wagon drive by that's like Moms, and all of a sudden I feel sad. I'll see some woman in the supermarket who looks like her for a minute, and I get this jolt of sadness. It'll even bring tears to my eyes. Anything can trigger a memory. You've got to mourn otherwise you'll never move beyond it. So I'm mourning. I'm letting myself feel how much I miss Mom.

1:14:04 I'm not fighting it, and most of the time it's okay. I can deal. Maria's sons picked up her remain shortly after Rob's conviction and buried her in a cemetery. Her headstone is carved with the words of wisdom she had left her boys with. Our greatest glory consists not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall. In January twenty fifteen, after Rob Marshall had served thirty years in prison, shockingly, he was up for parole. Before a parole hearing, information is gathered by the parole board from the family of the inmate and the family of the victim. Robbie and Chris Marshall did not want their father released, and attended a closed hearing in Trenton, New Jersey, where Chris spoke adamantly on the brother's behalf against their father's release.

1:14:45 Chris Marshall told the Asbury Park Press quote, We're going to stand up and defend our mom. We're going to be there in person to send a clear message. We believe going there in person is the most compelling way to make our case. We feel he should stay in prison forever. Robbie and I we're going to do everything we possibly can to keep my dad behind bars. In February twenty fifteen, while awaiting the parole hearing, Robert Oakley Marshall, seventy five, died of natural causes at Southwoods State Prison in Bridgeton, New Jersey. He suffered from diabetes, hypertension, dementia, and had recently had a stroke. Chris told the Associated Press quote, there is this vindictive happiness that he's gone now.

1:15:25 He is no longer a dream on anyone. Well, I hope that his dying brought some peace to his kids. So it's just so sad that they had to live with knowing that their father killed their mother. It's just horrible. He really put them through so much. Did Yeah, you know, hug how do you hug your sons and tell them that you're so sorry that their mother died? Would you know that you were responsible for her? Dask That's just it's so sick and to prave. Yeah, it really is. In Blind Faith, Joe McGinnis, the author of Fatal Vision and other books, wrote, quote, if Rob viewed you as a prospect, unless you just had your second coronary or was suffering from an obvious malignancy, he viewed you as a prospect, he'd come at you with all the social grace of a wolverine. Joe McGinnis died in twenty fourteen at the age of seventy one. In nineteen ninety, Blind Faith was made into a made for TV movie starring Robert Urick as Rob Marshall, which was exceptionally generous casting, and Joanna Kurns as Maria Marshall.

1:16:28 I don't know who jan I don't remember Joanna. I know Robert Uric. Maggie Receiver from Growing Pains. That doesn't help you. You were not a sitcom guve. I have such a big sitcom girl, but the show Growing Pains, you never watched it? No, not really? Okay, Well, she very a very pretty, very very nice lady. The movie is like a two part mini series. It's available on YouTube. I watched most of it. It's actually pretty good. Yeah. The book Blind Faith, though, compared to Fatal Vision, it was just so different. I didn't really love it. And Joe mcgainn has changed names, and I apologize if I got any names wrong. I think that there were a few police officer names like Obrien that I definitely got wrong.

1:17:10 He didn't change the names of the family or the boys, but you would think that they were the ones that I would want to protect. Is you know, Maria sons, And I know you could easily find their names and newspapers and such. But yeah, it was really strange and hard to keep track of. And he had a lot of conversations, like fictionalized conversations, and I really don't like that when authors take those liberties, and those conversations were like really trite, and it just it didn't seem like his best writing, I guess. But it was a bestseller, and you know, a lot of people loved it that. It was an interesting. Just my opinion, that's super interesting story for sure. Yeah. A really interesting side note that I found Joanna Kerns, who played Maria in the movie, befriended the Marshall boys like she really loved all of them. Because you didn't watch Growing Pains, You're not going to know what I'm talking about. But an actress named Tracy Gold played Joanna's daughter on Growing Pains, and she introduced Joanna introduced Tracy Gold to Robbie and they have been married for like years and years and years and they have four sons together.

1:18:18 Oh wow, Yeah, and it seems like Chris is doing well. I think he's married with children. The boys now were like fifty five to sixty, so you know, a lot of time has passed, but it seems like, you know, they did okay. And I'm not sure if they have a relationship with John. I think that they do, but they might not. They probably have rules where they just don't talk about their dad anymore. I hope they. I hope they have a relationship. Do you think Rob or John ever came around to thinking that his dad was guilty or. No, because like at the well, you know, I guess I don't really know. But remember like he was at the parole hearing, and you know, he was for his dads. So and maybe after his dad passed he was able to have, you know, some distance and be able to you know, look at it differently. Rest in peace, Maria Marshall.

1:19:06 It's so I'm so sorry that she didn't get to see her, you know, her lovely boys girls. So I found this article this week that made me laugh. It said that the gist of it was, if you sleep with socks on, you might sleep longer and better. And to me, if you're sleeping with socks and there's just something wrong with you. I thought you were gonna say, if you sleep with socks on, you are probably a psychophee. Right. Well, people that I love dearly, not you, who I do love dearly, sleep with socks and so I try not to make that judgment. But I have to know.

1:19:47 You know this person pretty well too. But some people get really cold. So I understand that, like some I have put socks on and gone to bed when I've been really cold. But I took one for the team for all of you. I decided the other night that I was gonna wear socks to bed to see if I slept better. Oh yeah, and longer. How did that go? It didn't go well. No, So, like I said at the beginning of the episode, I haven't been sleeping really great this week, so that could have been part of it. But my very unscientific research tells me that, no, go with your gut if you don't think you're gonna sleep better with socks. But we still have the flannel sheets on our bed or weather has been really wacky. Yeah, so maybe if you know I had not winter sheets on the bed, maybe it would be more cozy. I will try it again.

1:20:35 Yeah, I think you need to try it, like, you know, if you want to be truly scientific about it, you have to try it like twenty times with socks and twenty times without socks, and document each time, write down your find dings. Well, it's funny. I have an Apple Watch and I never wear it to bed, but that night it was like, I don't know where were wearing apple Watch to bed. I'm gonna be scientific, but I just I could not fall asleep that night, and I think it was just, you know, I don't know, my brain just didn't want to shut down. I don't think it was I don't think it had anything to do with the socks, so I will try it again. But yeah, if you're out there and you're having a hard time sleeping, then you know, try to drive some socks. I don't know. I don't think I'm going to try it. I'll wait. I'll wait to hear the results of your further experimentation.

1:21:17 Before I even will try it. I sleep pretty well without my socks on. I can't really do. We talked about the shock t mat I think the last episode. But you used to kind of have not insomnia, but maybe once every week, once a week or every two weeks, you would get up and you know, go sleep in a different room or something. But you really haven't done that in a long time. I still go through pierore every once in a while, I go through a period where I have trouble sleeping, but in general now I sleep really well. So yeah, I'm happy for you. But it's sometimes it's a little like, wow, really, he really can't sleep. The last night when we were in padding, Cosmo, Sorry for the cat cat talk, but Cosmo laid down between us and yeah, right in your ear. It's really funny, like he wanted you to wake up and you didn't botherige.

1:22:02 I was really surprised you don't remember that at all. We have gotten some exceptionally kind, sweet, generous reviews recently, so thank you so much. If you have been one of those people that have sent those reviews, it means so much to us. Yeah, it really does. Thank you very much. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, and find us on YouTube, follow us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com, and please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash love Marykill. We only have one tier for five dollars a month for early ad free episodes and a monthly bonus episode until next time. Don't kill your wife and don't kill your husband.

1:23:25 Hi, I'm Tina and I'm rich. And if there's one thing we've learned, and over twenty days. We've all e Ben made twenty days. Excuse me, listeners, this is Tina. I'm out. I quit. I refuse to work under these horrible circumstances any longer. My husband is mean and abusive and not appreciative. I will be eating the rest of the butterscotch squares by myself in the closet. With the door locked. Good Night,