Nov. 25, 2024

Marie and Frank Hilley - Part 2 of 3

Marie and Frank Hilley - Part 2 of 3
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Marie and Frank Hilley seemed to be living the American dream in their hometown of Anniston, Alabama. They met while still in school and had two kids. Frank was moving up at the foundry where he worked, and Marie brought in extra income as an executive secretary. But, in the mid-seventies, trouble started finding the Hilley family. Unexplained illnesses, arson, nuisance calls, money problems, extortion, and more. It would take years for the mystery to unravel.

Listen to part 3 by becoming a Patreon today

Today's snack: Classic Whoopie Pie

Merch available at: bonfire.com/store/love-marry-kill-store

WEBVTT

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I am Rich and I'm Tina.

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And if there's one thing we've learned, and over twenty

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years of marriage.

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Some days you'll feel like killing your husband and.

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Some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Tina, Hey Rich.

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How are you?

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I'm great? How are you?

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I am good. It's good to have you back for

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part two?

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Are you me?

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I know you're great to be a special guest host.

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You excited to get into part two of this story?

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Oh my well, I think that it's going to be

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three parts, So can we just skip to part three.

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And then we can just No, I think there's a

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lot of stuff in part two that you're gonna want

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to hear.

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Keep saying that I just cleaned the bathroom. I forgot

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that we were recording today, so I was cleaning, and

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then you were like, are you ready? And I'm like, oh, yeah,

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I guess I can do it all.

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You can. You're a renaissance woman.

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You can clean. I've got dinner in the crock pot.

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You're amazing, You're amazing.

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All right, all right, stop? So I really am here

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just for the snack. And you were up till all

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hours of the night in the kitchen.

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I'm a little worried you might not love this snack,

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but we'll see. I'm excited about it. Oh, I'm really

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I'm super excited about it. So last time we had

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moon pies, Yeah, I.

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Didn't love that. I'm sorry I was a little I

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was a little negative about them.

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Okay, Well, today our case is actually going to take

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us to New Hampshire. So I was looking into New Hampshire.

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Snacks and hey, that's where our friends Abby and Allie

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live from. About time for true crime podcasts. They're the best,

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so please go listen to them. I've been meaning to

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give them a shout out. They're so lovely and amazing

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and it's like listening to two friends talk and they

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listen to our podcast all the time and promote us.

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So it's about time that we recognize them.

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Very cool. Well, when I did some research into New

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Hampshire snacks, what I found was that there aren't a

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lot of snacks that New Hampshire is known for. There's

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a there's a Reddit thread and the top answer and

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the Reddit thread was gas station chicken tender. But I

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didn't get you gas station chicken tenders.

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Okay, you have me a perplex there for a minute.

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No, but what I did find is that so we

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had moon pies yesterday. Moon pies are not popular in

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the north, but what is popular in the Northeast our

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wookie pies.

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Oh, you made a homemade whoope pie.

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I made homemade whoopie pies.

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Okay, I've made them before, but not for a long time,

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did you.

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I don't remember.

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Yeah, pumpkin, I made pumpkin like cream cheese whoopy pies.

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You probably were eye friends or something. I don't know.

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Yeah, well, these are chocolate with like a marshmallow fluff filling.

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I know you're not the biggest marshmallow fans, so that's.

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Kind of funny that. Yeah, you were making me too marshmallow.

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I like marshmallows in some ways, but it's hard to explain.

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Well, hopefully you like these. I think they're pretty interesting.

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I'm so proud that looks beautiful.

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I think they came out. Okay, I do a couple

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of facts about whoopee pie.

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Of course you do. Of course I didn't have a song.

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Should we just write a song right now?

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I have a song?

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Oh God.

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So the one thing I wanted to say is that

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the origins of the whoopee pie are in dispute, so Maine, Massachusetts,

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New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Virginia all claimed to be the

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birthplace of the whoopee pie.

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Oh interest.

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It was a little bit of battle there. But when

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we were in Maine, I had at least one or

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maybe two whoopee pies?

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Did you?

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Yeah? Which were you were? You were sick so you

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weren't there, but yeah, I did.

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I remember when we were in Maine. Maine was beautiful

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and lovely into until I got COVID, but that was

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not Maine's fault. But we really had our time finding

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a good doughnut. Remember, we were really just like before

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I got sick, I really wanted to do we could

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not really find. Maybe it was just the area we

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were in, but the big good selection wasn't amazing.

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No, it wasn't as good as we had home.

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I'm curious where you found the woope pipe, but go ahead.

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Hey. The name whoopee pie comes from the story that

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Amish women would put the treats in their farmers lunchboxes

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and the farmers would yell whoopee when they found Oh, okay,

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so excited. Yeah, they're alternately called a black moon, a gob,

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a black and white a BOB, or a BFO, which

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stands for big fat oreo.

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Oh. Interesting. It's nothing to do with a whoopee cushion, then,

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not that I know of, No or like making whoopee.

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No, I don't think so. Okay, but I do have

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a song about a whoopee pie. It's not as good

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as the moonpie song. It's by a band called the

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Hungry Food Band. Okay, it's off their classic twenty ten

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album Delicious Songs About Yummy Food Shocked.

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We don't have that album in our in her possession.

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But let's enjoy this whoopee pie.

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I said, woop be whoop be my, oh my, there

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ain't nothing better than woopbeg pie. No such thing as

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a price too high. I'm still gonna buy that whoopy pie.

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No man, of what is costing. I need those slices

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of cake. That's sandwich frosty, yummy, yummy, yummy, yummy yummy.

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How did you like the whoopie pie?

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I mean, first of all, let's all applaud your attention

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to detail. I mean, that's it's pretty impressive. I just

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throw you a bag of chips.

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Since I do that a lot too.

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We're done. But uh, if a ten out of ten,

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it was amazing. You did a fabulous job. They're really tasty.

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Yeah, I really liked it. I don't, but it is.

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Yeah, you were just gonna say, it's sticking to your fingers,

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sticking to my fingers and actually, god, some on my microphone. Yeah,

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but I think it would be really good frozen too. Yeah,

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maybe it would be like less messy but delicious free.

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Job's awesome.

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I'm giving it a ton out of ten too.

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Perfect. So it's Thanksgiving week, so before we jump into

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the case, we want to say Happy Thanksgiving to all

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our listeners. We're so thankful that you guys keep coming

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back and keep listening and supporting us.

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We are extremely thankful for all of you.

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And another important thing this week, it's Richie's birthday. Yes, yes,

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so if anyone wants to send rich a message, I

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usually feel the social media things, but just send a

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message to Rich or if you make a comment on

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the episode, rich we'll see it there because you usually

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feel those things for sure. Okay, well, happy birthday, Well

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thank you. What do you want to do for your birthday?

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You know, I just want to watch the Lions on

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Thanksgiving and have a big victory on Thanksgiving Day.

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Your birthday is two days after that, though.

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Yeah, I know, I just want to I don't know,

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I just want to spend.

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Do you want? Do you want? What kind of cake?

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Do you want?

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Cherry chip cake? Of course?

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I figured? Okay, all right?

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Would you like to give us a quick recap of

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part one before we dive ahead into part two.

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A lot happened in part one, and you were nice

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enough to write a recap, so I'm just going to

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read you the recap that you wrote. In part one.

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We introduced Marie Hilly, her husband Frank, and there are

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two kids, Mike and Carroll, who happened to be the

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names of the Brady Bunch parents. They lived in Aniston, Alabama,

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named for Jennifer Aniston. In nineteen seventy five, got sick

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and passed away. The doctors weren't sure what he had,

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but they concluded that it was infectious hepatitis, but we

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question that. Soon after Frank died, Marie started reporting issues

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to the police, like NonStop nuisance phone calls. Fires. How

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many fires? There were a few fires, Yeah, a handful

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of probably four or five vandalism. She even had a

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bizarre incident where she claimed that someone was extorting her.

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The police eventually came to the conclusion that she was

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making all of this up for attention. Marie also had

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a spending problem. She ran up debts at department stores

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and banks, and she had a habit of writing bad checks.

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In nineteen seventy nine, when Marie's daughter Carol was nineteen,

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she started getting sick. She had very similar symptoms that

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her dad had. Carrol's illness went on for months. She

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lost a lot of weight and started having difficulty walking. Doctors,

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with Marie's prompting, began to suspect a psychological cause. When

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we left off, Carol was still in the hospital, Marie

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was arrested for passing bad checks, and Mike was starting

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to grow suspicious that his mom may have killed his

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dad after his grandma told him about Marie giving frank

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injections shortly before he died. One thing that we didn't

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mention was Marie was shady even with her own kids.

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She had just sold Carol's car out from under her.

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She used Mike's she stole like a credit card from him,

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and she sold some blank checks from him, and.

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Yeah, and he gave her a car. She promised to

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make the payments. Silence, She didn't make the payments. She

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was going to pay the utility bills for her mother

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in law who she was living with, and she never did. So, yeah,

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she was really she lied about a lot of things.

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Carol was still in the hospital and still struggling. In

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addition to the treatment that doctors were ordering, her mom

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was giving her pills to take as well. Although Carol

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and her mom had their conflicts, Carol trusted Marie implicitly,

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so she took any pills given to her without qu question.

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At one point, Marie told Carrol that she had met

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a woman in the hospital waiting room whose daughter was

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having the same problems as Carol. The woman told Marie

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about some medication that it helped. Marie told Carroll she

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could probably get some of the medication from her neighbor, Doris,

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who was a registered nurse. Carol said, sure, what do

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I have to lose?

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So she's in the hospital and that's very strange.

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Yes, it is. Soon Marie returned with the medication, which

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she gave to Carol in the form of an injection.

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Oh my gosh.

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She made Carol promise not to tell anyone, because she

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said Doris could get into big trouble if anyone found out.

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The injection didn't seem to help. In fact, the numbness

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in Carol's legs seemed to get worse and was expanding

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up higher to the upper part of her legs. Marie

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suggested another injection, and Carol agreed. Although Carol had promised

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not to tell anyone about the injections, she did tell

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her friend Eve while talking to her on the phone

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one day. It's quite possible that this revelation ended up

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saving Carol's life. Eve thought that it didn't seem right

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that Marie was giving injections to Carol while she was

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in the hospital. Eve knew Carol's aunt Freda, and called

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her to discuss the situation. Frida had heard her mom

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talk about the injections that Marie had given Frank before

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his death. She was alarmed and she called up Mike.

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Mike was also alarmed and worried about his little sister.

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He called her up right away and asked if their

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mom had been giving Carol injections. Carol said no, of course,

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Why do you ask Mike? Pressed her until finally she

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admitted that, yes, Marie had given her some injections. She

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said that Marie promised her they would help and that

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she could get out of the hospital. Mike didn't tell

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Carol what he was thinking. He just told her, don't

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let mom give you any more injections.

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Oh boy, if I remember back to part one, you

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said that Marie had taken out life insurance policies on

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Mike and Carol.

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Yeah, that's right. She took out life insurance on her

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self but also on her kids, which is pretty unusual

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for a parent to take out life insurance on their adult.

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Children, scusually because Mike was married.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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By this time, Carol was down to eighty one pounds

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from her original one hundred and five pounds. She was

239
00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:19.759
wasting away. Her Doctors were still baffled, but they started

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getting the impression that Marie's presence seemed to exacerbate Carroll's condition.

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00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.080
Whenever Marie was around, Carol seemed to get worse, both

242
00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:32.639
emotionally and physically. Also, Mike had called the hospital asking

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if it was possible that Marie had been giving injections

244
00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:39.720
to Carol, which they were surprised to hear. Considering these factors,

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the doctors sat down with Marie and asked her to

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00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:46.360
refrain from visiting her daughter for a while. Marie objected,

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but eventually she agreed. The hospital staff hung a no

248
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.080
visitor's sign on Carol's door. After just one day, though,

249
00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.559
Marie called the hospital and begged them to let her

250
00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.080
visit her daughter. They told her no, so Marie said, well, well,

251
00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:01.679
I'm just going to take her out of there. Then

252
00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:05.639
she showed up that afternoon and barged into Carol's room, saying,

253
00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:08.360
we're getting you out of here. It was clear that

254
00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:11.360
the hospital staff did not approve, but Carol was happy

255
00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.840
to be getting out. She hated being in the hospital.

256
00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:15.519
Oh my gosh.

257
00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:18.440
Marie had moved out of her mother in law's house

258
00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:20.679
by this point and was staying at the Holiday Inn

259
00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.360
near the Birmingham Airport, just temporary until she could get

260
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a place of her own. She said she took Carol there,

261
00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:31.399
stopping for pizza on the way. Carol was really happy

262
00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:34.720
to be free again, but the next morning, Marie told

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Carol that she was taking her to a different hospital.

264
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They needed to figure out what was going on. Carol

265
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:43.919
was angry. She was sick of hospitals, but Marie insisted.

266
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.840
She drove Carol to the University of Alabama Hospital, where

267
00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:51.320
she was examined by a neurologist. By this time, she

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00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:53.879
had no feeling in her feet or legs. She was

269
00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:58.159
virtually paralyzed below the knees and could barely use her hands.

270
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She told the doctor. Every every one thinks I'm crazy,

271
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:03.639
but I promised you this is not all in my head.

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00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:07.679
The doctor seemed to believe her. The first thing the

273
00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.399
neurologist did was to run tests to rule out Gianbarr

274
00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.000
syndrome or GBS. GBS is a rare but serious autoimmune

275
00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.759
disorder that occurs when the body's immune system attacks the

276
00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:24.120
peripheral nervous system. The early symptoms of GBS were similar

277
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.279
to what Carol was experiencing. However, the tests came back negative.

278
00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.519
Carol's ailment was still a mystery.

279
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.960
Why do you think Marie brought Carol back to the hospital.

280
00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.000
I don't know. It's so strange her behavior. You know,

281
00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.039
she was, on the one hand, she was you know,

282
00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.600
I think, as you all know by now, was poisoning Carol.

283
00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.399
But on the other hand, she was like anxious to

284
00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:47.960
get her help and actually kind of concerned mother.

285
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:51.799
So kind of a Munchausen by proxy, yeah, syndrome.

286
00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:52.639
Type thing, sort of seems that way.

287
00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.240
The first day of Carol's stay at the University of

288
00:13:55.320 --> 00:13:59.120
Alabama Hospital, a man came in asking for Marie. They

289
00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.519
talked outside of car Carrel's room. Then Marie came in

290
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:03.919
to tell Carol that she had to go with the man,

291
00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:08.799
something about a misunderstanding regarding a car that Marie was buying.

292
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.919
In reality, though Marie had been arrested again, she had

293
00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:15.919
continued writing bad checks, and to make matters worse, she

294
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:18.000
had failed to show up in court for a hearing

295
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:21.480
on her earlier charges. She was taken to the Birmingham

296
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:25.519
City Jail, where she spent the night with her mom gone.

297
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.840
Carol called her aunt Freda, begging her for help. Carol

298
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:30.879
just wanted to get out of the hospital and was

299
00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:35.639
hoping Frida could help. Freda agreed to come right away. Freda,

300
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:37.919
Marie's sister in law, had been in contact with Mike

301
00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:41.200
and they had talked about the possibility that Marie may

302
00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:45.000
have killed her husband, Frank. Freda had been close to Marie,

303
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.240
but she was now starting to have doubts of her

304
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.159
own about her sister in law. When Freda arrived at

305
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.320
the hospital, she asked to speak with Caroll's doctor. She

306
00:14:53.440 --> 00:14:56.320
poured out all of her fears and suspicions to him.

307
00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.240
She worried that the doctor might think she was crazy,

308
00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.559
but he seemed to take her seriously. When they finished,

309
00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:05.720
he went to examine Carol again, this time considering the

310
00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:10.559
possibility of poison. Heavy metals like lead, mercury, and arsenic

311
00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.759
could all cause the symptoms that Carol was experiencing. Definitive

312
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.360
testing for arsenic and other heavy metals was a time

313
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.799
consuming process, but there was a shortcut. Arsenic and other

314
00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.679
heavy metals cause something called aldrich Mes lines, which are

315
00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.639
white lines that appear across fingernails and toe nails starting

316
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:34.799
about six weeks after someone is poisoned. The neurologists looked

317
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:38.279
at Carol's nails and sure enough, there were the telltale lines.

318
00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.200
There were a couple of other potential causes of aldrich

319
00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.720
Mes lines. Blium poisoning from insecticides and a medicine used

320
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.879
to treat tuberculosis could both cause them as well, but

321
00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:53.320
those were quickly eliminated as possibilities. The diagnosis was clear.

322
00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:57.600
Carol Hilly had been suffering from arsenic poisoning for months

323
00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:01.919
on and there is no effective treatment for arsenic poisoning

324
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:05.240
unless it's caught early, within the first twenty four hours

325
00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:09.759
of exposure. The only cure is time. Carrol's doctor immediately

326
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.240
had her moved to a different floor of the hospital,

327
00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:16.120
with only authorized visitors being allowed to know her new location.

328
00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:20.279
Murray was not on that list. Preta stayed with Carol overnight.

329
00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:25.120
Carol called Mike and told him that she had arsenic poisoning.

330
00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:29.679
Mike immediately called the Anniston, Alabama coroner back, saying he

331
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:30.720
had new information.

332
00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.159
I don't know if you remember, but in part one,

333
00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:36.240
Mike had called the coroner when he suspected that his

334
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.519
mom had poisoned his dad, and they told him call

335
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:41.840
us back. If you get more information than maybe we'll

336
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:43.399
be able to exhume his body.

337
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:46.399
Okay. The coroner told him to put everything he knew

338
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.120
in a letter. He typed up a three page letter

339
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:53.159
documenting everything regarding his dad's illness and death, his sister's

340
00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:56.960
illness and diagnosis, and the injections that Marie had given

341
00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:00.159
both of them. When the coroner received the letter, he

342
00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:04.079
called up Lieutenant Gary Carroll of the Anniston Police Department.

343
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:08.319
Lieutenant Carroll had always viewed Marie as an odd, eccentric

344
00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.799
person who seemed to crave attention, but he also thought

345
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.599
of her as harmless. Now he started to reconsider that assessment.

346
00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.519
He came to the hospital to interview Carroll and her doctors,

347
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.680
collecting medical records for both Carrol and Frank. Testing came

348
00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.119
back and confirmed the presence of arsenic in Carroll's hair.

349
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:30.599
Lieutenant Carroll then went to the Birmingham City Jail and

350
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.680
signed Marie out, taking her back to the police station

351
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.279
for an interview. He asked Marie about Frank's illness and death,

352
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:40.839
and also about the death of Marie's mother, Lucille. Soon after,

353
00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:44.119
he asked if Marie had given them injections, and Marie

354
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.799
said yes, A couple of times she had given them

355
00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.799
morphine injections when the nurse couldn't be there. Lieutenant Carroll

356
00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:54.839
started wondering, did Marie kill her mother too? I forgot

357
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:59.480
about Lucille. He then shifted to talking about Carroll's illness.

358
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.240
Marie knew by this time that Carol had been diagnosed

359
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.240
with arsenic poisoning, but she claimed to have no idea

360
00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:08.640
how Carol could have been poisoned. She denied giving Carroll

361
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.759
any injections, but when Lieutenant Carrol persisted, she finally admitted that, yes,

362
00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.680
she had been giving her an injection of fenergan a

363
00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:19.920
nauseous as present. She said the doctor had given it

364
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:23.480
to her to administer as needed, but she swore quote,

365
00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:26.720
I didn't give her anything poisonous. I never have given

366
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:31.000
her anything poisonous. Lieutenant Carroll pressed her about the injection,

367
00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:34.599
Knowing that a doctor wouldn't give Marie a syringe of medication,

368
00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:37.559
Marie changed her story and said that she had met

369
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:40.279
a woman in the lobby of the hospital. She recalled

370
00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:43.599
the woman's name as Missus Hill, and that Missus Hill's

371
00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.240
daughter in law was a nurse and that's how she

372
00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:49.640
got the medication. She couldn't remember the nurse's full name,

373
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:54.599
she just knew it Aschootz. Oh my goodness.

374
00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:58.720
Yeah, Marie had quite the imagination. I mean, this is

375
00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:00.960
it's just a bizarre stary. Sorry, if you think about it,

376
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.400
like she's saying, she met a woman in the hospital

377
00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:06.160
who got her daughter in law to give her some medication.

378
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.279
And then she gave that medication to her daughter.

379
00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:12.119
And it's just crazy, right, And you're just getting medication

380
00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:14.839
from some person you don't really know and injecting it

381
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.799
into your daughter right when you're at a hospital.

382
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:18.799
Yeah.

383
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.599
Lieutenant Carroll asked Marie who she thought was most likely

384
00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:25.400
to have poisoned her daughter. She said, quote, well, I

385
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.200
know I'm the number one suspect. I'm her mother. I

386
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:32.079
mean I should be the last suspect. Yeah, you should be, Marie.

387
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.880
Then Lieutenant Carroll shifted the conversation to ask Marie whether

388
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:40.200
she ever had mental lapses, suggesting that maybe Marie had

389
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.559
poisoned her daughter during one of these lapses. Marie seemed

390
00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:47.359
to consider this possibility. She said, well, I guess everybody

391
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.759
has those types of mental lapses sometimes, but she said

392
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.079
she didn't think it was possible that she had poisoned

393
00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.119
her daughter during one of those lapses.

394
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:57.079
I thought we could do a little bit of true

395
00:19:57.119 --> 00:20:00.279
crime theater with the next part of Lieutenant Carroll's terryation

396
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:02.920
of Marie. Ohuld you like to play the part of Marie.

397
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:04.480
I would like to be Lieutenant Carroll.

398
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:06.240
No, I will be Lieutenant Carroll.

399
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:07.519
Well, why did you ask that.

400
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:09.519
I don't know. I just thought it would be nice,

401
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:11.119
but let's do it.

402
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.519
Well, If I am having mental lapses, i'd sure like

403
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:16.680
to get some help for me, Marie.

404
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:18.720
Do you not think that you might need some help?

405
00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:20.839
Yeah? I need some help.

406
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:23.759
Gary, you know it and I know it. Right. Yeah,

407
00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:26.799
that's right, you do need some help. I understand, Marie.

408
00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:28.920
I know you've had a lot on your mind.

409
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.440
But I'm not. Oh, I think everybody. I could use

410
00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.680
a psychiatrist now and then. But no, I don't mean it. No,

411
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:37.720
I can't ever think that I would hurt my daughter.

412
00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:40.319
I couldn't do that. You don't poison your own children.

413
00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:43.079
Don't you think there might be another side to you, Marie?

414
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:45.240
I hope not that kind of side.

415
00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:46.759
But don't you think there could be?

416
00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:47.240
Well?

417
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:49.079
I don't know, but I don't want there to be.

418
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.079
Well. Listen, Marie, I've talked to some people that know

419
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:55.039
you fairly well, and they say that sometimes you act

420
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:56.160
like two different people.

421
00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:57.079
Gary.

422
00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:58.720
I couldn't do that to Carol.

423
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.680
I know, the real you couldn't. But maybe some other

424
00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:03.640
person could do that to Carol. Marie.

425
00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.039
I couldn't, Gary, not the real you. But what's the

426
00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:10.200
real me? Then do you think I'm crazy?

427
00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:12.960
Gary? I didn't say that, Marie, but I do think

428
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:13.799
you need.

429
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:15.839
A person would have to be crazy to do something

430
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:16.200
like that.

431
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:18.799
You know that, Well, do you think you're crazy?

432
00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.079
I'm beginning to wander since I've been up here a week,

433
00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:24.200
But I don't think that I'm that kind of crazy.

434
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.279
Maybe other people can see something in me that I

435
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.640
don't see on myself. Gary, I can't believe there is

436
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.440
a side to me that could do that. Now, if

437
00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:33.599
a psychiatrist digs that out of me and says there

438
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:35.440
are two people and I could do that, that, I

439
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:37.640
might accept it. But I cannot accept the fact that

440
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:38.880
there is a side of me that could.

441
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.960
Well, I am not a psychiatrist. All I know is

442
00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:44.160
what people that know you and have known you for

443
00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.640
a number of years, what has been told to me.

444
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.400
Like I say, well, my son's told me something of

445
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.680
the same thing, and I agreed with him. I would

446
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:54.000
go to a psychiatrist when I get out. It's the

447
00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:55.000
first thing I would do.

448
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:57.880
What was the first indication that you had that you

449
00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:58.759
needed some help?

450
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.240
Well, I had this feeling It's like you're sitting off

451
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:04.480
but you're looking on at everybody. You know, nothing seems real,

452
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:07.400
That's what I mean. Instead of mental laps, it's more

453
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.079
just like nothing is real. Like this doesn't even seem

454
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:12.759
real to me right now, being up there in the

455
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:16.119
city jail doesn't seem real. It's like I'm asleep and

456
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.559
I'm going to wake up and everything's going to be okay.

457
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:22.119
In other words, like you're in another dimension and you're

458
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:24.799
just seeing yourself act out what you've.

459
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.559
That's right, and it's just you know, like that's not me,

460
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:30.759
and you know, I wake up after a while. If

461
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:34.880
there's any casting directors out there, call me. It felt

462
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:36.759
like Marie was on the verge of confessing, or at

463
00:22:36.799 --> 00:22:40.319
least admitting that she might have poisoned Carol during a

464
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:44.400
mental lapse, but the interview ended without any further revelations.

465
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:47.359
Marie was returned to the city jail.

466
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:51.960
The next step in the investigation was to exuom Frank's body.

467
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:54.440
By this time, the press had gotten wind of the

468
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.599
developing story, and they showed up in force to report

469
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.960
on the exhamation Frank's cast. It was dug up and

470
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:04.079
his body sent to the Alabama Department of Forensic Science

471
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:08.920
in Birmingham, for an autopsy on October third, nineteen seventy nine.

472
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.880
The coroner also collected samples of water that had gathered

473
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.359
in the casket, along with some mud from the area.

474
00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.319
As arsenic is often found in groundwater and soil, this

475
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:21.079
would allow them to compare those levels with any arsenic

476
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.240
detected in Frank's body. Smart The autopsy showed the presence

477
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:29.480
of significant amounts of arsenic in Frank Hilly's body, although

478
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.400
they weren't yet ready to say whether the arsenic caused

479
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:36.559
his death or not. While the investigation was proceeding, Frida

480
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.200
went over to her mother, Carrie's house, where Marie had

481
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:43.079
been staying. Although Carrie was dying of cancer, Frieda started

482
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:46.680
to wonder whether Marie had poisoned her as well. Marie

483
00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:48.920
had been living with Carrie for a year, and Carrie

484
00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:51.920
had experienced a number of stomach issues during that time.

485
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.480
Freda looked through the things that Marie had left behind

486
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:59.000
at Carrie's house. She found the unpaid utility bills that

487
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.119
Marie had promised to but never had. She found a

488
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:05.519
small medicine bottle that was half full of liquid. Then

489
00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:07.960
free to remember that Marie had left a bunch of

490
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.519
stuff in her own garage as well. When she was moving,

491
00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:14.279
she went back home and went through everything. She found

492
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:17.440
three bottles of baby food. At one point Marie thought

493
00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.759
that maybe Carol would be able to eat that when

494
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:22.880
she was struggling to keep food down. She also found

495
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.440
a bottle that was labeled Cowley's Rat and Mouse poison.

496
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.000
This was a liquid rat poison sold back in the day.

497
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:36.240
The active ingredient arsenic trioxide. Ook Freeda took everything to

498
00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:38.519
the police station, where it was sent to a lab

499
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.279
for testing. Lieutenant Carrol went back to the city jail

500
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.839
and was given access to Marie's purse. In it were

501
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.319
a number of medicine bottles filled with pills, powder, and liquid.

502
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.079
He sent it all off to the state crime lab.

503
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:56.720
Lieutenant Carrol also requested that Marie's mother, Lucille's body be

504
00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:01.400
exhumed as well, and if Lucille's body showed of arsenic poisoning,

505
00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:04.680
the next step would be to exume Marie's father's body

506
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.680
as well, although he had been dead for fourteen years

507
00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:09.200
by this time, so.

508
00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:12.400
At this point, how many people has Marie potentially poisoned?

509
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:17.880
Her mother, her mother in law, her husband, her daughter.

510
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:19.720
And there may be others as well. I don't know

511
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:21.799
if you remember. In part one we talked about a

512
00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:24.799
little girl who was friends with her daughter Carol, a

513
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:28.880
girl named Sonya Gibson who died suddenly after getting sick.

514
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:32.160
So there's that possibility too, and there may be others

515
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:35.079
as well. The bottom line is will never really know

516
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:36.279
how many people she may have.

517
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:37.240
Oh my goodness.

518
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.039
While Mike and Frieda were now convinced that Marie had

519
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:44.559
poisoned at least Frank and Carol, Carol herself seemed to

520
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.559
be in denial. She spoke with a reporter around this

521
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.240
time and said, quote, I'm not going to believe it

522
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.279
until it's proven. I love her because she's my mom.

523
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.079
If she did it, she didn't realize what she was doing.

524
00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:58.880
My mother is not a bad person or anything. She's

525
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.839
just been through a lot. She's had a lot on

526
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:02.400
her mind since my dad died.

527
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.759
It's interesting that Carol defended her mother so vociferously when

528
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.279
she had been kind of mean to her her whole life.

529
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:12.400
It is interesting and it just shows you, I think

530
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:15.319
like the bond between mother and daughter, it's very complicated, right,

531
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:18.079
They very they had a lot of conflicts but at

532
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:20.720
the same time, you know, Carol loved her mom and

533
00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:22.200
relied on her.

534
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:25.440
I think it speaks higher of Carol than Marie.

535
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:29.039
Yeah, for sure. In addition to the bad check charges

536
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.160
already leveled against Marie, now she was charged with the

537
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.839
attempted murder of her daughter. She wasn't charged with Frank's

538
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:39.839
murder yet, pending further testing. Her bail was set at

539
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.960
ten thousand dollars for the attempted murder charge and two

540
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.400
thousand dollars each for the bad check charges. While the

541
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:50.839
total bail amount of fourteen thousand dollars seemed ridiculously low

542
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:54.440
for someone accused of attempted murder, Marie didn't have the money.

543
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:57.519
He believed that ten thousand dollars bail for attempted murder.

544
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.160
I mean that was a long time, that was over

545
00:26:59.200 --> 00:26:59.799
forty years.

546
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.079
Yes, but it just seems really low to meh. Marie's

547
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:05.440
lawyer called Mike and asked if he could make some

548
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:09.000
calls to Marie's friends and former bosses to pay her bail.

549
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:12.680
Mike was reluctant, though in his opinion, his mother belonged

550
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:15.599
in jail. He actually wrote a letter to the judge

551
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:18.279
saying that his mother needed psychiatric help and that she

552
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.119
should not be released. Mike also recalled how his wife

553
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:24.640
had gotten sick. I forgot to mention that one yeah,

554
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:28.599
and she had miscarried while Marie was living with them,

555
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:31.680
so the question in his mind had Marie poisoned Terry

556
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:35.680
as well. Lieutenant Carrol also wanted to see Marie remain

557
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:39.000
in jail until her trial. He had heard that Marie

558
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.480
told a cellmate that she was planning to take off

559
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.440
if she was able to get released. He notified the

560
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:48.200
DA's office, hoping they would petition to revoke her bail,

561
00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:51.640
but he was too late. Five local residents, including one

562
00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:55.599
of Marie's former employers, ponied up the fourteen thousand dollars

563
00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.759
and Marie was released. After she was released, she called

564
00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:02.039
Mike and asked him, Hey, do you have a credit card?

565
00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:06.559
I could bark while Mike had learned his lesson by

566
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:09.160
this point, and he said, no, Mom, you cannot have

567
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:13.799
my credit card. Marie had retained local lawyers, Bill Andrews

568
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:17.240
and Wilford Lane to defend her. After Marie was released,

569
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:19.759
they received a call at their office. It was a

570
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:24.000
woman's voice, not identifying herself. She asked, quote, are you

571
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:27.279
the lawyer with Wilfrid Lane on the Marie Hilly case? Unquote?

572
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:31.279
Andrews said yes he was, and then she said you

573
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:33.759
had better get off the case or you'll be damn sorry.

574
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.319
I can't imagine who that might have been. Calling him up.

575
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:40.720
Fearing for her safety and also trying to keep the

576
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:44.160
media away from her, Andrews and Lane checked Marie into

577
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:47.599
a different hotel, the Roadway in under an assumed name.

578
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.480
A few days later, the lawyers came to her hotel

579
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:54.480
to prep for an upcoming court appearance, but Marie was gone.

580
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.400
Later that same day, Frank's mom, Carrie Hilly, passed away

581
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:03.359
at age seventy one. Testing had shown traces of arsenic

582
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:07.079
in her body, although she also had cancer. An autopsy

583
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.759
was performed, but it was difficult to determine whether the

584
00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:14.119
actual cause of her death was the cancer or the arsenic. Eventually,

585
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:17.279
they concluded that she died of natural causes. I'm sure

586
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:21.640
the arsenic didn't help though, right, We'll be back after

587
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:22.160
a break.

588
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.039
Marie's lawyers notified the police of her disappearance and an

589
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.279
immediate manhunt was launched. There was a note left in

590
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:39.839
Marie's room at the roadway in it said quote Lane

591
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:42.279
you led me straight to her. You'll hear from me

592
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:43.839
who's lane?

593
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:45.279
Lane was her lawyer?

594
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:48.000
Okay. It was intended to make it look as though

595
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.240
Marie had been kidnapped, but the police weren't buying it.

596
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:54.640
Marie's aunt an uncle who lived in Anniston, came home

597
00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.079
a day after Marie disappeared to find that their house

598
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.200
had been broken into and their car was gone on.

599
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.440
They found a note that said do not call the police.

600
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.240
We will burn you out if you do. We've found

601
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:10.720
what we wanted and won't bother you again. Your car

602
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.480
is in Gadsten. Gadsden is about thirty miles from Anniston.

603
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:18.559
They called the police, knowing it must have been Marie.

604
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:21.200
A few days later, their car was found parked at

605
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:24.680
a bus station in Marietta, Georgia, ninety miles east of

606
00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:29.400
Anniston and nowhere near Gadsden. The DA requested a federal

607
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.440
warrant for Marie. Over the next weeks, there were many

608
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:37.400
reported sightings of Marie, some credible and others not so much.

609
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:41.559
One woman reported having a friendly conversation with another woman

610
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:44.799
on a bus headed to Savannah, Georgia. The woman fell

611
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:47.200
asleep and woke up to find the other woman gone

612
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.680
and her purse, money, and watch were all missing. Shown

613
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:54.119
a picture of Marie, the woman identified her as the

614
00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:57.920
same woman that she had encountered. Investigators tried to pick

615
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.960
up Marie's trail in Savannah, where the US had been headed.

616
00:31:01.480 --> 00:31:04.319
There were several potential sightings there as well, but none

617
00:31:04.359 --> 00:31:09.119
of them panned out. Investigators spoke with Kelvin Robertson, Walter Clinton,

618
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.559
and other men that Marie had worked with and had

619
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.640
affairs with. In letters that Marie had written to both

620
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.400
Kelvin and Walter, she had mentioned plans to marry a

621
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.839
man named John Romans. I remember that they followed several

622
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:24.559
leads trying to track down this guy, but they never

623
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:29.279
found him, if he even existed. Investigators knew that Marie

624
00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:33.400
was very particular about her appearance, always being impeccably dressed

625
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.039
in expensive clothing with her hair done. Based on this,

626
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.680
they sent circulars to beauty parlors around the country, and

627
00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:44.680
beautician's magazines were asked to publish her picture. That's smart.

628
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.400
They also circulated her photo at finer clothing stores and

629
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:52.000
boutiques throughout the South. They would send my picture to

630
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.119
like target in Costco. While Marie was on the run.

631
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:00.359
Testing on Frank's remains were completed. There was there's no

632
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:03.039
doubt about it. He had been killed by arsenic poisoning.

633
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:07.119
Because arsenic remains in the victim's hair, scientists can actually

634
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:11.119
estimate when the arsenic was delivered and how much was ingested.

635
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:14.720
In Frying's case, there were significant amounts of arsenic delivered

636
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.960
over a long period of time, with a massive dose

637
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:18.920
given near the end.

638
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.000
It's kind of cool, like, I never really thought about that,

639
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.880
but the hair can be like almost like a timeline

640
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:26.400
of the arsenic being delivered, Like they can say, oh,

641
00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:29.000
a little bit was delivered here, then a little bit more,

642
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:30.119
and then a lot.

643
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:33.480
So initially when she was poisoning Frank, she probably had

644
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:37.640
no idea what a toxic dosage was. But she got

645
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.000
pretty good at it, I guess because she had poisoned

646
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.880
so many people. On January eleventh, nineteen eighty, two months

647
00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:47.839
after she disappeared, a grand jury indicted Marie in apsentia

648
00:32:48.119 --> 00:32:51.319
her first degree murder, in addition to killing Frank and

649
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:56.079
attempting to kill Carol. Investigators began speculating about other possible poisonings.

650
00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:59.680
There was Carol's friend Sonya Gibson, who had died years

651
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:03.319
early or after becoming ill. Mike's wife Terry, who had

652
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.799
gotten sick and miscarried while Marie was living with them.

653
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.319
Several police officers who had visited Marie after she had

654
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:13.799
reported various incidents had sat down for coffee with Marie

655
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:18.160
and later had gotten violently ill. Oh my gosh. There

656
00:33:18.200 --> 00:33:19.960
was a family who had lived next door to the

657
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:22.920
Hillies and often had food or drinks that Marie provided.

658
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.519
The kids had several bouts of unexplained illness, all of

659
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:29.559
which seemed to clear up after they moved away. There

660
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:31.559
would be no way to know for sure how many

661
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:33.039
people Marie had poisoned.

662
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:34.400
Crazy, isn't it.

663
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.599
Wow? Well, a little girl, Sonya, if I remember correctly,

664
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:40.920
she was ten, Yeah, And did she often go to

665
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:41.680
Marie's house?

666
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:43.640
It was. I think it was only for a fairly

667
00:33:43.720 --> 00:33:46.200
short period of time. And I will say that I

668
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:49.119
did read that they did actually end up exuoming her

669
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:49.960
body eventually.

670
00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:50.519
Wow.

671
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:53.200
And they did not find that she died of arsenic poisoning,

672
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:55.759
but it was just unknown, like you know, did she

673
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:56.880
poison her? Did she not?

674
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.519
While the search for Marie continued, Carol was slow getting

675
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:03.039
back to normal. She stayed with Frita for a few

676
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:06.440
months until she regained her strength, then moved out, excited

677
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.519
to finally be out on her own. However, she still

678
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:13.440
struggled with her mental health and attempted suicide again in

679
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:17.039
May nineteen eighty by overdosing on medication. It was a

680
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.559
cry for help. Unfortunately, she survived. After spending a few

681
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:24.039
days in the hospital. She emerged feeling positive and ready

682
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:27.559
for a fresh start. Poor Carroll, she really went through it.

683
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:30.840
Carole had regained some of the weight she lost and

684
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.039
recovered her strength and control of her limbs. She went

685
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.599
back to school and changed major's to physical education. Finally,

686
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.719
she seemed to be on the right track, despite initially

687
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:43.639
being in denial. In an interview eight months after her

688
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:46.559
mother disappeared, Carroll now made it clear that she had

689
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:49.639
no doubt that Marie killed her father and had tried

690
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:53.239
to kill her. Mike and Terry moved to Tennessee, where

691
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.679
Mike started studying for his master's degree at the Emmanual

692
00:34:56.679 --> 00:35:00.039
School of Religion in Johnson City. One night, Mike he

693
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.719
hurt his youngest son, nine months old, cry out. He

694
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.039
went to check on him and saw a figure outside

695
00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:07.320
on the porch. He could tell it was a woman,

696
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.880
but couldn't make out her features in the dark. It

697
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:11.800
seemed like she was trying to open the window of

698
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:15.519
her son's room. Behind her in the street, he saw

699
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:18.400
two men standing next to a white Chevy Nova.

700
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:21.000
Ooh, it's pretty terrifying, isn't it.

701
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.119
Yeah, well, I'm glad to hear that they went on

702
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:24.039
and had children.

703
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:24.760
Yeah.

704
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.840
After their loss, Mike called the sheriff. As they waited

705
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:30.199
for the police to arrive, he saw the woman move

706
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.840
across the porch toward the front door. Terry said, quote, Mike,

707
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:37.119
that looks like your mother. Suddenly, a house across the

708
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:39.559
street turned on a bright spotlight and the owner came

709
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.480
out of the house. The woman quickly left Mike's porch

710
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.880
and drove off with two men. The police finally showed up,

711
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:48.159
and Mike told them that he thought it may have

712
00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:50.679
been Marie. They showed a photo of Marie to the

713
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:53.320
neighbor across the street and he said, yes, that was

714
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.599
who he saw. Mike and Terry didn't see Marie again,

715
00:35:56.679 --> 00:35:59.159
but they lived in fear what if she came and

716
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:02.480
tried to harm him him or his family. Soon, the

717
00:36:02.519 --> 00:36:05.800
sightings of Marie dwindled and the case faded into the background.

718
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.280
Three years went by with no sign of Marie Hilly.

719
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:10.199
Wow.

720
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:14.199
Three years. Do you know approximately how old she was

721
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:14.840
at this time?

722
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.039
I think when she disappeared she was around forty six, Okay.

723
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:23.440
John Homan the third, not John Roman or John Romans,

724
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:28.000
came from a prominent, well off family. His paternal grandfather

725
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:32.079
had invented an insulating material in the eighteen hundreds called Homanite,

726
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:36.320
which was significant and helped make electric motors possible, and

727
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:40.480
his mom's family owned several businesses, including banks. John was

728
00:36:40.519 --> 00:36:43.079
the oldest of six kids. When he was young, the

729
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:46.599
family migrated from Ohio to the sunny skies of Florida,

730
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:50.599
but the family was troubled. John's mom was an alcoholic

731
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:54.280
and went through frequent bouts of depression. She died when

732
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:58.639
John was sixteen, and the family began falling apart. John's dad,

733
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:01.679
also known as Big John, wanted his oldest son to

734
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.320
go to college and get a good paying white collar job,

735
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:08.400
but John liked working on cars and mechanical things. He

736
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.880
started attending university, but quit to take a job installing

737
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:17.119
toilets and stabilizing equipment on pleasure boats. After Anne Holman died,

738
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:19.840
Big John remarried a woman named Judy, who had been

739
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:22.840
a friend of Anne's and was twenty five years younger

740
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:26.440
than Big John. Judy took over managing the trust fund

741
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:30.679
money that supported the children. In nineteen seventy two, after

742
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.119
celebrating his fifty fourth birthday, Big John had a massive

743
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.880
heart attack and died. Soon after his death, John the

744
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.400
third got married to a woman named Linda, who he

745
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:43.639
had been dating. He had started his own business called

746
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:48.239
Crown Marine. He worked on boats, installing equipment, decking, and

747
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:52.280
repair work on fiberglass hulls. He was out on his own,

748
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.599
but most of his other siblings were still at home.

749
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:58.159
Now being raised by Judy, John tried to help out

750
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:00.239
as much as he could to be a surrogate pairarrant

751
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:03.719
to his younger brothers and sisters. The trust money that

752
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:06.320
was left to the children was automatically turned over to

753
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.639
them when they turned twenty one. The amount was between

754
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:12.440
one hundred and fifty thousand and two hundred thousand dollars

755
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:16.519
for each child, or about a million dollars today. John

756
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:18.920
had already gotten his and spent a lot of it

757
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.360
on fancy cars, a sailboat, and other things, but the

758
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:26.440
younger kids were still waiting on their inheritance. Big John

759
00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:29.400
had made a pact with his best friend, Bob Sammartino,

760
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.239
who was a house builder. The two had agreed that

761
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.599
if anything happened to one of them, the other would

762
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.440
ensure the family of the person who died was looked after.

763
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:42.039
Bob convinced Judy and the kids to invest their inheritance

764
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:45.239
in real estate. He was building homes all over the

765
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:48.880
place and the market in Florida was booming. The kids

766
00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:51.760
looked to John as the eldest for guidance, and John

767
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:55.480
agreed that it seemed like a good idea. While things

768
00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:58.239
started out good for the new family home building business

769
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:03.199
home art enterprises, things soon went downhill. Cash flow was

770
00:39:03.239 --> 00:39:06.920
all going out and not enough coming in. Sam Martino

771
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.519
kept coming back for more money, but there were always snags,

772
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:12.639
and the homes that were supposed to be built kept

773
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:18.599
getting delayed. Debts were piling up, and creditors were getting aggressive. Eventually,

774
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:22.320
the whole thing collapsed in lawsuits and finger pointing many

775
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.239
of the younger kids blamed their older brother John he

776
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:28.079
should have done a better job looking out for their interests.

777
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:31.840
The end result was that John ended up estranged from

778
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.800
the rest of his family. He and his wife drifted

779
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.840
apart and separated by the late seventies. John had few

780
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:43.039
friends and lived a mostly solitary life. It's not certain

781
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:47.000
exactly when John met Marie Hilly. The fact that in

782
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:50.159
late nineteen seventy eight Marie wrote in letters about a

783
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:54.000
man she was planning to marry named John Romans tells

784
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.360
us that she probably met him while she and Carol

785
00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:59.159
were in Florida. This was in the summer of nineteen

786
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:01.519
seventy eight, when and they stayed with Mike and Terry

787
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:05.280
for about three months. As John would later tell the story,

788
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.599
he met Marie in a bar, but she said her

789
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:10.960
name was Robbie Hannan. She told him that she was

790
00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:13.880
a prostitute, but that that night was her first attempt

791
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:16.559
and she didn't know what she was doing. She told

792
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:19.000
him she just needed money, she didn't really want to

793
00:40:19.039 --> 00:40:22.360
be a hooker. We're not sure what happened between John

794
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:26.280
and Robbie Hannon, but Marie returned to Anniston, where it

795
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:28.960
would be Just over a year before her arrest and

796
00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:33.440
jumping bail with John, Marie created a new story for

797
00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:36.519
her life as Robbie Hannon. She told him that she

798
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.320
had been married at age sixteen in Texas to a

799
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:42.960
man named Joseph Hannon. Joseph was a lawyer and a

800
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:46.840
wealthy man. She and Joseph had two children together, Joey

801
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:49.800
and Carol, and they had been a happy family until

802
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:53.119
a drunk driver ran into her, killing the two children.

803
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:57.599
Robbie was wrecked with guilt, marked by nervous breakdowns, depression,

804
00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.360
and suicide attempts. Two years later, Joseph had died of

805
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:05.440
a heart attack. Robbie left Texas to start anew Her

806
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:08.239
husband had left her a big inheritance, and eventually she

807
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.360
said she would go back to Texas to claim it,

808
00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:12.840
but for now she just needed to get away and

809
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.880
start a new life. So, just to be clear, Marie

810
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:18.800
made up this whole new identity for herself under the

811
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:21.559
name Robbie Hannon. She made up a whole autobiography of

812
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.000
this person, for this husband and kids. That none of

813
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:26.920
that existed at all.

814
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:27.960
Gotcha.

815
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.480
In the spring of nineteen eighty, a few months after

816
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:34.079
Marie Hilly disappeared, John's brother Peter came to visit from

817
00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.639
New Hampshire, where he had moved a few years earlier.

818
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:39.800
While John wasn't close to his siblings, he had at

819
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:43.400
least stayed in touch with Peter. While visiting, Peter met

820
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:46.800
John's new girlfriend, Robbie Hannon. He thought she was kind

821
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:49.599
of strange, a bit eccentric. It was odd that she

822
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.000
spilled out her whole life story to him within a

823
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.840
few hours of meeting. She also told him that she

824
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:57.960
was suffering from a brain tumor. It was under control

825
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.480
at the moment, but she expected that it would kill

826
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:04.159
her one day. Robbie and John seemed happy, though, so

827
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.320
Peter tried to be supportive. When he heard that they

828
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:09.840
were thinking about leaving Florida to make a fresh start

829
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:12.840
somewhere new. Peter encouraged them to come and check out

830
00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:17.360
New Hampshire he and his wife. They did. He and

831
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:19.719
his wife had bought some land and were fixing up

832
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:23.199
a run down old farmhouse. John and Robbie made plans

833
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:27.440
to come visit that summer. Robbie and John drove to Marlow,

834
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:30.559
New Hampshire in late summer nineteen eighty in John's red

835
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:34.679
pickup truck with their few possessions in the back. Marlowe

836
00:42:34.719 --> 00:42:37.480
is a small town population of just five hundred and

837
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:41.000
forty two. In nineteen eighty, they stayed for a while

838
00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:44.199
at an inn, taking some drives around New England, trying

839
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:47.079
to decide where they would live. They toyed with the

840
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:49.639
idea of heading to the coast of Maine, where John

841
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:53.360
could revive his boat business, but eventually they decided they

842
00:42:53.480 --> 00:42:56.800
liked Marlowe. It was quiet and people tended to mind

843
00:42:56.840 --> 00:42:59.960
their own business. They rented a small house and went

844
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:03.280
to find work in Keene, New Hampshire, fifteen miles south.

845
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:06.760
They both went to an employment agency where they were

846
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:10.360
impressed by Robbie's confidence, along with her excellent shorthand and

847
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:14.679
typing skills. They referred her to the Central Screw Corporation,

848
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.519
where a secretarial position had just opened up. Although she

849
00:43:18.599 --> 00:43:21.519
and John weren't married, she started using Homan as her

850
00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:25.039
last name. At this point, John got a job as

851
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:28.639
a machinist at a company called Findings Incorporated, which made

852
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:33.280
small parts like clasps and settings for jewelry. Both John

853
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:36.760
and Robbie excelled in their new jobs. Robbie was quickly

854
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:40.119
given a permanent position as a customer service clerk, working

855
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:44.480
with large customers to manage their orders. John was recognized

856
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:47.440
as one of the best machinists that worked at Findings.

857
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:50.760
He was always on time, reliable, and good at the job.

858
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:54.719
John and Robbie settled into their new life. They would

859
00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.920
drive every morning to Keene together in John's pickup truck.

860
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:01.519
They lived modestly in their small home with a few possessions.

861
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:06.440
Robbie made friends at Central Screw quickly. Everyone seemed intrigued

862
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:09.119
by this well spoken, out of towner who was always

863
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:13.159
well dressed. They were fascinated by her story. In May

864
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:16.719
nineteen eighty one, John and Robbie returned to Fort Lauderdale

865
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:20.039
and got married there. The only guests in attendance were

866
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:24.840
John's only friend, Manfred, and Manfred's wife. John didn't even

867
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:27.119
tell any of his family members about the trip back

868
00:44:27.159 --> 00:44:29.599
to Florida or about his marriage.

869
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:34.400
To Robbie, so John believes that her name is Robbie correct.

870
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:38.360
Robbie returned to New Hampshire, but John stayed in Fort

871
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.480
Lauderdale for a while. He had an old knee injury

872
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:43.960
that was flaring up, and he had a good orthopedist

873
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:47.199
in Florida who had treated him in the past. Because

874
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.239
Robbie didn't have a driver's license, she relied on John's

875
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.920
brother Peter for rides everywhere while John was in Florida.

876
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:56.920
Peter thought this would be a good opportunity to get

877
00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.239
to know his sister in law better, but he was

878
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:02.480
surprised when and she used the drives to criticize John.

879
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:05.880
She told Peter she was thinking of divorcing John. When

880
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:09.400
he returned, Peter was shocked. He thought that his brother

881
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.280
and Robbie were happy together and.

882
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:13.679
They had literally just gotten married, right yeah.

883
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.199
When John returned, Robbie told him that Peter had left

884
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:20.119
her stranded several times after promising to pick her up

885
00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:23.039
and give her rides. This was a lie, but John

886
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:26.920
believed his new wife. He confronted Peter, who then angrily

887
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:30.800
confronted Robbie. It turned into a shouting match. Peter called

888
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:34.440
Robbie a liar and ended up storming out. The relationship

889
00:45:34.480 --> 00:45:37.360
between John and his brother, which had been growing warmer,

890
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:41.960
was now cut off again. Robbie's relationships at work followed

891
00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:45.719
a similar pattern as Marie's work relationships had gone before.

892
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:49.800
While she quickly made friends with her colleagues, the relationships

893
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:52.719
soon soured. People saw her as full of herself and

894
00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:55.840
always needing to be the center of attention. She still

895
00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:00.320
got along well with her mostly male bosses, though. August

896
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.559
nineteen eighty one, after working at Central Screw for nine months,

897
00:46:03.639 --> 00:46:06.800
Robbie announced that she was leaving the job. She was

898
00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:09.239
going back to Texas, she said, to settle things in

899
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:12.760
her late husband's estate to get her inheritance. She was

900
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:15.840
required to take up residence in Texas for several months.

901
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:19.480
John wasn't sure whether Robbie was planning to ever come

902
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.440
back to New Hampshire or not. He thought their marriage

903
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:23.639
might be at its end.

904
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.480
Robbie, also known as Marie, did move to Texas for

905
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.960
a time, just outside of Houston. She rented an apartment

906
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:33.639
there and became good friends with the neighbor Judy Cox.

907
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:36.920
She told Judy this same story about being married to

908
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.960
a wealthy man, having two kids who were killed by

909
00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:42.559
a drunk driver, and then her husband dying of a

910
00:46:42.559 --> 00:46:45.440
heart attack. Robbie told Judy that she was there to

911
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.760
settle her late husband's estate. Robbie also told Judy that

912
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.199
she had a rare blood disease which caused her to

913
00:46:52.239 --> 00:46:56.000
suffer from frequent migraines. Robbie even moved in with Judy,

914
00:46:56.119 --> 00:46:58.280
her husband, and their son for a time when she

915
00:46:58.320 --> 00:47:01.280
said she needed a place to stay. She almost became

916
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.719
part of the family, who were all sad when she

917
00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:06.280
told them she was heading back to New Hampshire. After

918
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:09.880
a couple of months, they made plans to reunite for Thanksgiving,

919
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:12.719
but Robbie never called Judy again after leaving.

920
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.159
She must have been very convincing of people, and very

921
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:18.880
she was very good at manipulating people. The fact that

922
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:21.159
someone who had known her for a very short time

923
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.960
invited her to move in with them and her family

924
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:26.360
just kind of shows you how she was able to

925
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:26.639
do that.

926
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:30.119
Yeah, well, John wasn't sure whether his marriage to Robbie

927
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.199
was over or not. Robbie did come back to New

928
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:35.760
Hampshire and he took her back. She went back to

929
00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:39.159
work at Central's Screw again, taking a new role working

930
00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.000
with large automotive customers to manage their accounts. She again

931
00:47:43.000 --> 00:47:46.639
did well at her job. Her boss, Ron Oha, could

932
00:47:46.679 --> 00:47:49.000
rely on her to handle things, and he knew that

933
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:51.840
he didn't have to worry about her doing her job well.

934
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.320
He quickly came to rely on her as one of

935
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.559
his key employees. Most of the other women who had

936
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:00.760
worked with Robbie before weren't so happy to have her back.

937
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:03.519
She did become close friends with a new girl who

938
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:06.360
had started after Robbie went to Texas. Her name was

939
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:10.360
Claudia Brooks. Robbie started telling people a news story. Now.

940
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:14.599
She had an incurable blood disease. It was under control,

941
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:17.400
but caused her to have bad headaches and to black

942
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:21.039
out at times. John saw that at times Robbie would

943
00:48:21.079 --> 00:48:23.960
have a sudden attack where she would start talking in

944
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:26.800
the voice of a little girl, or she would seemingly

945
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:30.639
be in a trance where she would start maniacally babbling

946
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:34.039
and crying. These spells might last a couple of hours,

947
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.880
or sometimes they might last a whole night. When they

948
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.320
would happen, John would do his best to try and

949
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:44.400
comfort his wife. Robbie also started telling people about her

950
00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:49.159
identical twin sister, Terry, who lived in Texas. That's where

951
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.440
that she was used the name Terry of her daughter

952
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:51.719
in law.

953
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:54.039
A lot of her names. I didn't mention it, but

954
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:56.039
like Robbie, I think was the name of a cousin

955
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:56.440
of hers.

956
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:58.280
I thought I remember hearing that name before.

957
00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:00.000
Yeah, Robbie.

958
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:02.320
We described her blood disease as sort of the opposite

959
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:05.800
of leukemia. Whereas leukemia is a type of blood cancer

960
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:09.159
that occurs when the bone mirror produces too many abnormal

961
00:49:09.159 --> 00:49:12.440
white blood cells, Robbie said her body produced too many

962
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.800
red blood cells. After returning from Texas and going back

963
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:20.039
to work at Central Screw, Robbie's conditions seemed to worsen.

964
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:23.960
Her headaches became more frequent, and her boss, Ron noticed

965
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:28.079
that she looked increasingly fatigued. She told her colleagues that

966
00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:30.519
she had seen a bunch of specialists and that there

967
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:33.199
was a doctor in Germany who was the most advanced

968
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:37.400
researcher in the world on her disease. As a last resort,

969
00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.639
she was planning to fly to Germany to see this doctor.

970
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:44.320
In September nineteen eighty two, after being back at Central

971
00:49:44.360 --> 00:49:47.480
Screw for about nine months, Robbie told her colleagues that

972
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:50.400
she was going back to Texas to see a doctor there,

973
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:52.800
and that she would be staying with her sister Terry.

974
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:57.079
She told John the same thing Robbie did head to

975
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:00.199
Texas again, but this time she only stayed there for

976
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:03.440
three days before heading to Florida. There, she stated at

977
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:06.639
Howard Johnson's Motor Lodge, not far from where her son

978
00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:10.679
Mike had lived before. Soon after arriving, she walked to

979
00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:14.480
a nearby beauty salon and came out her formerly dark

980
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:18.320
hair now bleached blonde. She went to an employment agency

981
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.679
and filled out an application. Now her name was Teresa

982
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:26.440
or Terry Martin. The employment agency found her a role

983
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:28.639
as a bookkeeper and a typis for a company called

984
00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:32.760
Solar Testing Service. She worked for a man named Jack Mackenzie,

985
00:50:32.760 --> 00:50:36.039
who was quickly impressed with Terry. She told Jack that

986
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:39.760
she didn't currently have transportation, though she would soon. Her

987
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:42.280
sister lived in New Hampshire, she said, and she would

988
00:50:42.280 --> 00:50:44.920
eventually go up there to get her car and bring

989
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:48.639
it back. In the meantime, Jack was fine picking her up.

990
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:51.280
It was not out of his way and Jack lived

991
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:55.159
alone after divorcing his wife seven years earlier. Terry was

992
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:57.599
an attractive woman, and Jack looked forward to the twenty

993
00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:01.519
five minute commute each morning and evening. During their commute,

994
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:05.400
Terry told Jack about her twin sister Robbie in New Hampshire,

995
00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:09.480
her rare blood disease and the supernatural bond she shared

996
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:13.119
with her twin. If Robbie was suffering, Terry said she

997
00:51:13.159 --> 00:51:14.079
could feel it too.

998
00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:16.280
Imagine how heart it would be to keep all this

999
00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:17.079
stuff straight.

1000
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:20.360
I was thinking that too. There's no way that I

1001
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.079
could do it, and I bet she couldn't do it either,

1002
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:26.679
But she tripped up all the time and people didn't notice.

1003
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:29.519
Terry told Jack that she herself was a widow and

1004
00:51:29.599 --> 00:51:32.880
she had left New Hampshire to start fresh in Florida.

1005
00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:35.800
She said she didn't need to work, she had family

1006
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:39.039
money and owned a vacation home in California, but she

1007
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:42.079
wanted something to keep her busy. One day, Terry told

1008
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:44.519
Jack that she was thinking about buying a house. She

1009
00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:47.639
was planning to fly her sister Robbie down from New Hampshire,

1010
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:50.000
along with her dog and the nurse who was caring

1011
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:52.000
for her. They would all live in the house so

1012
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:54.559
that Terry could be closer to her sister and help

1013
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:57.440
take care of her. On the way home that evening,

1014
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.719
Terry had Jack swing by the house she was planning

1015
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:03.599
to buy, even though the house needed work, Jack could

1016
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:06.880
tell it was an expensive home. Terry had actually talked

1017
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:08.960
to the owner of the home, who had given her

1018
00:52:08.960 --> 00:52:12.159
a tour. She made a verbal offer of two hundred

1019
00:52:12.199 --> 00:52:15.239
thousand dollars about six hundred and fifty thousand dollars to day,

1020
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:18.480
and he accepted. She promised to call him in the

1021
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.800
next day or two to make it official, but he

1022
00:52:20.960 --> 00:52:22.559
never heard from her again.

1023
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:25.360
Wow just bananas.

1024
00:52:27.199 --> 00:52:30.280
After working for six weeks at solar testing, Terry told

1025
00:52:30.360 --> 00:52:32.320
Jack that she needed to go to New Hampshire to

1026
00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:35.599
see her sister, who wasn't doing well. She called Jack

1027
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:37.760
a couple of days later to say that Robbie had

1028
00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:40.119
died and she needed to stay in New Hampshire to

1029
00:52:40.159 --> 00:52:43.719
take care of things. Jack understood and wished Terry the best.

1030
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:45.199
So sad that Robbie died.

1031
00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:49.119
If your twin dies, you really feel it.

1032
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:49.679
That's tough.

1033
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:53.719
In November nineteen eighty two, Terry Martin called John Homan

1034
00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:56.679
to let him know that his wife, Robbie was dead.

1035
00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:00.760
Oh boy. John had never met his wife's twins sister before.

1036
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:04.159
He must have noticed how similar her voice sounded to Robbie's.

1037
00:53:04.599 --> 00:53:06.599
She told him that she was getting on a plane

1038
00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:10.079
and she was heading to New Hampshire. Robbie had written

1039
00:53:10.119 --> 00:53:12.920
a long letter to Terry detailing her wishes. One of

1040
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:16.079
those wishes was that Terry would help John through his

1041
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:20.679
grieving process. When Terry arrived on November eleventh, Sean was

1042
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:24.480
waiting to pick her up at the airport. This is

1043
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:27.960
like a soap opera, it is. And she must have

1044
00:53:28.039 --> 00:53:29.840
watched a lot of a lot of like As the

1045
00:53:29.880 --> 00:53:30.559
World Turns or.

1046
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:31.480
Whatever or she did.

1047
00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:34.760
Yeah, because it does sound like a soap opera. Holy moly,

1048
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:37.360
I'm afraid that's where we're going to have to end

1049
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:38.239
for part two.

1050
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:40.079
I can't believe there's a whole other part.

1051
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:42.880
I know, can you imagine what? I We'll talk about

1052
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:45.320
it in part three. But if you're John and you're

1053
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:48.039
waiting to pick up your dead wife's twin sister at

1054
00:53:48.039 --> 00:53:51.800
the airport, what must have been going through his mind?

1055
00:53:52.559 --> 00:53:54.480
Do you think he was scared? What emotion do you

1056
00:53:54.480 --> 00:53:55.320
think he was feeling?

1057
00:53:55.960 --> 00:53:59.480
I can't even imagine. I mean it just the whole

1058
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:01.679
thing is just so bizarre in my mind. And I

1059
00:54:01.719 --> 00:54:04.440
think John, we'll talk about it in part three, but

1060
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:08.480
I think he believed everything that his wife told him,

1061
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:11.320
and so I think he was just thought that his

1062
00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:13.679
wife had died and thought he was hearing from her

1063
00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.719
twin sister for the first time, and was just going

1064
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:19.280
to pick her up at the airport, thinking, right, I'm

1065
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:21.360
going to welcome her to New Hampshire.

1066
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:23.960
I forgot to tell you I have a twin sister.

1067
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:26.840
He really, what's her name?

1068
00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:28.519
Can you imagine if there were two of me, you'd

1069
00:54:28.519 --> 00:54:33.880
be like, oh, yeah, it's nuts.

1070
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:36.360
It is when I think about all this stuff that

1071
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.000
Marie made up. You know, she's on the run from

1072
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:42.719
the law, and it seems like she should have tried

1073
00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:46.039
to keep things simple, Like why is she doing all

1074
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:46.519
these things?

1075
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:48.840
And I don't think she knows how to make anything simple.

1076
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:51.800
Yeah, that's true. I think she was just her brain

1077
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:54.519
was a little off or something, but it just was.

1078
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:55.480
It was a lot off.

1079
00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:58.320
Yeah, yeah, it was a lot off. But making up

1080
00:54:58.360 --> 00:54:59.960
all these new people and she.

1081
00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:03.719
And she has the same patterns too, though she keeps

1082
00:55:03.800 --> 00:55:06.719
I mean, she should be a little scared about you know,

1083
00:55:06.800 --> 00:55:10.280
she's running from the Lost Dell, but she keeps going

1084
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:12.679
back to the same places and the same people in

1085
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:15.679
the same jobs, where she probably should have you know,

1086
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:16.480
gone out west.

1087
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:18.079
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1088
00:55:18.440 --> 00:55:20.719
She should have gone to her vacation home in California

1089
00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:21.719
and laid low for a while.

1090
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:24.840
Yeah. It's interesting too that a lot of her fantasies,

1091
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:27.760
you know, or a lot of her made up identities,

1092
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:30.559
they were all wealthy, like they always they always.

1093
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:33.719
Had a lot once they're you know, their alter ego

1094
00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:36.599
to be poor and yeah, you know, but a criminal.

1095
00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:38.400
At the same time, though, people are only going to

1096
00:55:38.440 --> 00:55:40.760
believe you for so long if you aren't driving a

1097
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:43.239
nice car, you don't have a nice house and stuff

1098
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:45.840
like that. You know, just always like, yeah, I've got

1099
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:48.760
this inheritance, but I don't have it with me. I'm

1100
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:49.519
going to go get.

1101
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:50.000
It, you know.

1102
00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:52.400
That's what can people do.

1103
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:52.920
Yeah.

1104
00:55:53.119 --> 00:56:02.000
Yeah, if you have not already ordered your Love Mary

1105
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:05.920
Kill merchandise, I haven't. You have until December fifth? Okay,

1106
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:07.800
do you want to tell people where to go?

1107
00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:10.519
I don't remember, but I know you remember.

1108
00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:14.000
It's a little bit of a long complicated You are

1109
00:56:14.199 --> 00:56:19.320
fire dot com, slash store, Slash Love Dash Mary dash

1110
00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:20.800
Kill dash store.

1111
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:23.400
You expect me to remember that. There will be a

1112
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:25.079
link at our show notes.

1113
00:56:25.159 --> 00:56:25.400
Yes.

1114
00:56:26.199 --> 00:56:29.159
If you have any questions, feel free to direct message

1115
00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:32.760
me on Facebook. Or Instagram or send us an email

1116
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.039
at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com and we will be

1117
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:38.840
happy to answer your questions. So we're recording this on Wednesday,

1118
00:56:38.840 --> 00:56:41.199
November thirteenth, so it'll be a couple of weeks before

1119
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:43.480
it comes out. And I apologize if this is old news,

1120
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:48.280
but people still might be reeling from People's Sexiest Man

1121
00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:51.960
Alive was announced today. Did you hear well? You were

1122
00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:56.119
robbed again? Probably because I never post any pictures of us,

1123
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:59.559
but he's very handsome. I have, but it was John

1124
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:01.320
Kristin's How do you feel about that?

1125
00:57:02.559 --> 00:57:05.360
I don't find him especially sexy, but that might just

1126
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:08.159
be me. I don't know. Yeah, a good looking guy,

1127
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:09.000
I guess, yeah.

1128
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:10.679
I mean I think he's had a nice glow up.

1129
00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:13.639
Here's the controversy and again this I don't know if

1130
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:16.239
this is true or not, but his career has been

1131
00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:21.039
flailing a little bit, really, and he might have paid

1132
00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:24.639
to be the sexiest man aalized scandal. Certain men have

1133
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:30.960
been offered the position and have declined it. Keanu Reeves

1134
00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:33.079
and oh gosh, I wish I could remember who else?

1135
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:36.760
Glenn Powell, and I think there's there's been a few

1136
00:57:36.760 --> 00:57:38.360
other men that have been like, no, thank you, I

1137
00:57:38.360 --> 00:57:39.400
have no interest in Yeah.

1138
00:57:39.719 --> 00:57:42.039
I was gonna say John Krasinski, I haven't heard anything

1139
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:44.559
about him in the last year. I know he had

1140
00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:46.400
he had a couple of movies that were pretty big,

1141
00:57:46.440 --> 00:57:47.360
like a couple of years ago.

1142
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:49.639
But yeah, I think a lot of people are saying that,

1143
00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:54.559
a lot of people. I mean, yeah, no, I don't know.

1144
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:56.880
I mean, it's a scheme by him to get back

1145
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:57.960
in the public eye again.

1146
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:01.360
I don't know. I mean, it was just it's all

1147
00:58:01.400 --> 00:58:04.360
it's all gossip. It's all here saying I really don't know.

1148
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.440
I've not vested in it. I'm just just interesting.

1149
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.000
I'm sharing the news exactly. I hope there's not a

1150
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:14.079
big scandal brewing for John Krasinski. I am going to

1151
00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:17.239
Chicago tomorrow for Worth, my hometown, for a couple of days,

1152
00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:19.639
and I don't know what it's going to be yet,

1153
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:22.440
but probably your snack for part three is going to

1154
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:23.320
come from Chicago.

1155
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:24.159
Oh interesting.

1156
00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:27.079
I'm not going to get Garretts because we've done Garretts before.

1157
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:29.519
I don't think you can do Garretts too much. I'm

1158
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:31.639
just gonna put that out there. I had a Garrett's

1159
00:58:31.719 --> 00:58:35.760
popcorn in a mall not far from us. But it shuddered,

1160
00:58:36.039 --> 00:58:37.800
and I was like, because I only would get it

1161
00:58:37.840 --> 00:58:41.559
like once a year around Christmas time. And really it's

1162
00:58:41.800 --> 00:58:43.679
like a fraction of the price to get it at

1163
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:46.360
the store than it is. It's really kind of expensive

1164
00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:48.960
to have it shipped, but to buy it fresh at

1165
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.840
the store is pretty, you know, relatively inexpensive.

1166
00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:53.199
Yeah, well, I was going to ask you if you

1167
00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:55.960
had any requests for one Chicago.

1168
00:58:56.280 --> 00:59:00.280
I actually we together haven't gone to Chicago for quite

1169
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:03.960
a while on a trip. I don't know whatever, Just

1170
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:05.719
surprise me. I guess that's exciting.

1171
00:59:05.760 --> 00:59:08.159
But Garretts would be acceptable to you. It wouldn't be

1172
00:59:08.239 --> 00:59:11.159
like we've had too much Garretts. We don't want that again.

1173
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:16.079
Sure I do. Sure, Well, it's a really brief trip, though.

1174
00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:18.519
Do you even have time? You don't bring me something

1175
00:59:18.559 --> 00:59:19.800
you're are you taking the Amtrak?

1176
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:20.199
Yeah?

1177
00:59:20.320 --> 00:59:22.119
Yeah, don't bring me something from the Amtrak.

1178
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:25.880
They have a really good snack car. You would be surprised.

1179
00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:27.840
It's been a while since I've taken the Amtrak. But

1180
00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:30.920
it was horrible back, but you've had better.

1181
00:59:31.599 --> 00:59:33.840
I'm kind of joking. The snack car is not the best,

1182
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:36.159
like you order like a burger, and I think they

1183
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:38.400
take it out of a paper bag and stick it

1184
00:59:38.440 --> 00:59:41.760
into a microwave or plastic bag. But I love the Amtrak.

1185
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:44.679
I actually really enjoy taking the train from here to

1186
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:47.480
Chicago because it's a nice quiet time. You can just

1187
00:59:47.679 --> 00:59:49.280
get some work done and.

1188
00:59:49.360 --> 00:59:51.079
You never know how long it's going to take, though

1189
00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:53.239
it could always take longer.

1190
00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:55.000
Yeah, I've had good luck, but you never know.

1191
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:56.519
Yeah.

1192
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:58.800
Thank you all so much for your support. The only

1193
00:59:58.840 --> 01:00:02.519
reason there is a podcast because you continue to support us.

1194
01:00:02.960 --> 01:00:05.400
If you'd like to hear part three of this story today,

1195
01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:09.000
consider supporting us on Patreon dot com, slash Love Mary

1196
01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:12.920
Kill five dollars a month for early ad free access

1197
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:14.639
and a monthly bonus episode.

1198
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:18.719
Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe, find us on social media,

1199
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:22.800
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com.

1200
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:23.960
Until next time.

1201
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:26.440
Well next time, don't kill husband.

1202
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:26.960
And don't kill your wife.

1203
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.880
Don't kill husband, don't husband, not kill just.

1204
01:00:29.880 --> 01:01:12.679
Don't kill anybody.

1205
01:01:16.360 --> 01:01:25.440
It's interesting that Carol defended her mother so vociferously, vociferously.

1206
01:01:25.719 --> 01:01:27.960
What should I say other than that I don't want

1207
01:01:28.000 --> 01:01:30.519
to not say it because I'm smart to say no

1208
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:31.320
smart words.

1209
01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:32.800
You do. You're very smart.