Mary and Bill Yoder - Part 1

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Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
sometimes Rich is going to screw up the

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introductions. Sometimes Tina's going to screw
up the introduction. Welcome to love,

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Mary Kill, Hey Tina, Hey
Rich, how are you? I'm good?

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How are you? Great intro?
You'd think we'd have it down,

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but man, that took us forty
six times to take us a while did

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take us a while. We were
at the giggles. Some days are a

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little rough. I'm glad to be
here with you today and I'm excited to

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tell you the story I'm going to
tell you today. Me too, it's

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a I went deep on this one. You've been warning me for the last

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couple of weeks. Yeah. So
I started off reading a book. The

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case we're going to talk about is
about the death of a woman named Mary

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Yoder. I started off reading book
by M. William Phelps, which had

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a lot of great information in it. But then I found a trial transcript

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three thousand pages of trial transcripts,
three thousand, yes, three thousand pages.

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How long was the trial? Oh? I don't know, we'll talk

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later, but yeah, it was
a lot of information, so I've got

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a lot of really good detail.
I think it's a really interesting case.

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But you didn't read the whole three
thousand pages. Oh no no, I

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read the most relevant parts. But
before we get into the case, I

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do have a snack for you.
And it came all the way from Ireland,

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Oh, the land of my ancestors. Yeah, Irish. That was

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perfect. So when I was in
Europe recently, my colleague Helen, who

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lives in Ireland, she brought me
a snack. Oh that was so nice.

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I know, it's really nice,
and I wasn't sure it was going

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to make the trip back very well, but it did. But she also

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described for me how to make out
of the snack that she brought. A

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traditional Irish snack that you eat after
a long night of going out drinking.

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So what I brought is these are
potato chips or crisps as they're doing.

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But they are called potatoes, cheese
and onion crisps. Why are they open?

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Well? Because I had to make
the sandwich out of them. So

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what you make is a you make
an Irish crisp sandwich, which is essentially

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white bread, butter and potato chips. Okay, I'm in so. Yeah,

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we don't normally eat white bread,
but whenever I do, I really

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enjoy it. Yeah, I did
not get the Traditionally you would make this

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with Brennan's bread, which is from
Ireland, but I couldn't find that anywhere.

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But I did get carry gold Irish
butter to put on the bread.

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I'm sure it's a completely different authentic. Yes, we've probably mentioned this before,

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but we both do have Irish heritage, and I have bright red hair.

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You do beautiful, beautiful red hair. I don't know about that,

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but yes, and I also brought
well, Helen also brought me this Cadbury

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Dairy milk bar, which was made
in Ireland as well. So you brought

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home a bunch of snacks, not
for the podcast, but for our family

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when you were in Europe. Is
that the same thing that you brought us?

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No, this is different. Okay. The one you brought you brought

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like little caramel bits of cadberry.
They were really good. Yeah, well

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let's take a break and we will
try our snack. What did you think

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about the Irish crisp sandwich? I
thought it was delightful. That's good.

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Actually, I was not expecting to
like it, but I really did like

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it. I think had the bread
that you've given me not been the stale

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piece on the loaf, it would
have been even better. I'm sorry you

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could never please me. No,
it was really good. The Cadbury was

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delicious, really good. Thank you
so much, Hellen. Yeah, thank

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you all. And one thing I
learned about this is that people like to

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eat this sandwich after a long night
of serious crack. If you ever heard

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the word crack our spelled cr ai
c. That's an Irish slang term for

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going out and partying. Oh okay, I didn't know that. Yeah,

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so there you go. We do
have a lot of listeners in Ireland and

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if one of you has a recommendation
for us, let us know. We

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do have about two to three hundred
case recommendations right now and try. Oh

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we've never done her Irish case,
so would be that would be cool.

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Yeah. So today's case is a
recommendation from our listener Sarah in Indianapolis.

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So thank you, Sarah. We
appreciate the recommendation. It was a really

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interesting case. Everyone who knew her
said that sixty year old Mary Yoder was

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one of the most energetic vibrant and
healthy people. You could imagine in July

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of twenty fifteen, when she went
from her usual self to being violently ill

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over the course of one day.
Everyone assumed it was a gastro intestinal bug

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that would pass. On day two
of her illness, Mary's sixty nine year

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old husband, Bill Yoder, took
her to the er. She seemed to

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improve as the day went on,
but overnight she took a turn for the

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worse, ending up in the ICU, and shockingly, she passed away the

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next afternoon. Mary and Bill seemed
to have a storybook marriage of thirty eight

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years. They raised three kids together, started and ran the successful chiropractic clinic

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together in a suburb of Utica,
New York, and they were starting to

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plan for the next phase of their
life together, selling the business, traveling

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the world, and retiring. All
that was cut short when Mary died.

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Here's an excerpt from doctor Mary Louise
Baker Yoder's obituary to give you some idea

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of who she was. She was
a well educated woman whose schooling spanned twenty

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years. She earned her doctorate in
chiropractic medicine from Life Chiropractic College in nineteen

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eighty six. She and her husband, doctor William R. Yoder d C.

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Were a hard working and dedicated couple, inseparable in raising their family and

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building their careers together. Along with
her husband, Mary owned and operated Chiropractic

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Family Care in Whitesburro for twenty eight
years. She was a beloved woman and

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well known member of her community who
touched countless lives throughout her working and social

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life. She was wholeheartedly holistic and
believed in the therapeutic power of healing that

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considers the body, mind, and
soul in balancing her life. Mary loved

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gardening, as evidenced by the beautiful
gardens at her home. She also enjoyed

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dancing, especially Bollywood belly and African
dancing. She was a gifted artist and

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pursued photography, painting, and pottery. She was a member of the World

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Music Choir, singing and drumming as
a talented musician. She was an affiliate

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of the New York State Chiropractic Association
and a patron of the Munson Williams Procter

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Arts Institute. But above all else, Mary was the absolute best grandmother who

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lovingly adored each of her grandkids.
They were the center of her life.

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She sounds like she was a lovely, lovely woman. She sounds amazing.

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As the Onondaga County Medical Examiner's Office
tried to understand the Mary's sudden illness and

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death, their work raised more questions
than answers. Every avenue they explored seemed

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to result in a dead end.
As investigators gradually unraveled the mystery, relationships

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would be tested and families torn apart. Mary Baker was born in Buffalo,

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New York, in nineteen fifty five
and raised in Utica. She was the

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third of eight children, six girls, followed by two boys, the births

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of the eight kids spanning over twenty
years. After attending community college for a

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bit, she decided to head to
the big city to attend college at the

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University of Buffalo, two hundred miles
away from Utica, although she still wasn't

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sure what she wanted to study.
She initially stayed with an aunt and uncle

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who lived near the university, but
after a while she wanted to be independent

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and start living her own life.
She had been extremely shy as a child

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and was looking to get out there
and start spreading her wings. She checked

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the want ads and found a boarding
house with a room for rent. The

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other students living in the boarding house
interviewed her and decided she was a good

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fit. She seemed kind, upstanding, and warm. One of those roommates

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was Bill Yoder. Bill, who
was almost ten years older than Mary,

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had grown up in Phoenix, Arizona. After three years in the army,

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he ended up in Buffalo, where
he went to college and eventually worked his

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way into the doctorate program in philosophy. He wasn't sure exactly what he wanted

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to do with his education, although
teaching was always an option. People said

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he had a brilliant mind and loved
the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake.

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Philosophy appealed to him, examining the
big questions about life, meaning,

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and happiness. Mary had a boyfriend
at the time she moved into the boarding

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house, and Bill didn't even consider
the possibility of romance, But over time

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he started seeing that Mary was really
different than most girls he knew. She

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seemed so down to earth and authentic. Coincidentally, she and her boyfriend broke

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up soon after she moved in,
and Bill asked her out. This was

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around nineteen seventy five or nineteen seventy
six. Before long, Bill and Mary

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were dating exclusively. Bill's work on
his PhD was going slowly to finish.

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All he needed to do really was
to write his dissertation, which I know,

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I say all he needed to do. That's obviously a huge amount of

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work, but Bill was procrastinating.
He was seven years into the program at

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the time he met Mary, and
he had taken all the classes he could

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take. The head of the philosophy
program at University of Buffalo called him in

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and said, we don't have any
teaching spots open, and there are no

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more classes you can take, so
you either need to write your dissertation and

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finish your degree or move on.
How long do you think it typically takes

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to write your dissertation, like at
least a couple of years, right,

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I think that's right. It's a
ton of work. Rather than buckle down

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and get going on his dissertation,
Bill had another idea. He went to

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Mary, who he had been dating
for several months by this time, and

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said, Hey, how about we
do some traveling. Mary didn't even have

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to think about it, said yes, absolutely, she could put her studies

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on hold for a while. They
had a garage sale They sold everything that

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they couldn't take with and they loaded
up the car and took off with no

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plan or thought as to where they
were headed. Wow, that's cool.

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They ended up in Arizona at first
so Bill could introduce Mary to his parents,

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and then they took off again,
deciding to give Albuquerque a try.

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Their reasoning they liked Sunshine, and
Mary liked the way Albuquerque was spelled.

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She thought it would be fun to
write it as a return address. Albuquerque

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is fun to say it is.
It's hard to spell too. They both

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got a job at the local pizza
hut in Albuquerque. Mary returned to school,

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transferring her credits from Buffalo, while
Bill commenced to work on a book

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inspired by his studies in philosophy.
He thought that writing a book would help

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him organize his thoughts so that he
could eventually complete his dissertation. She was

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really putting off this dissertation. Write
a book dissertation for sure. Bill hadn't

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considered marriage up to this point,
but one day, while Mary was out,

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he was struck by inspiration and realized, I'm going to marry this woman.

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He asked her. She said yes
without hesitation, and they decided to

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pack up their things and had back
to Utica, where Mary's family was.

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Before they got married, Bill talked
to Mary about having an open marriage.

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It was the seventies, after all. Mary was not on board with this

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idea, and so Bill agreed their
marriage would be a conventional exclusive marriage.

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Oh boy. After the wedding,
they took off for the Hawaiian Islands,

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specifically Kawhi. They didn't have much
money, and they were planning to hike

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and backpack and live off the land
for as long as they could. They

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hiked into a remote area on the
north side of the island, reachable only

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by helicopter or a hike of more
than ten miles. They camped under a

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mango tree near a waterfall, and
they both felt like it was paradise.

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Dang, we have not done anything
remotely back I know. They weren't thinking

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about the passage of time or anything
else. They were just living and meditating

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and communing with nature. After about
a month of this, Bill had another

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powerful flash of insight. He needed
to finish his dissertation. He told Mary,

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and she agreed that it was time
to go back to the real world.

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When they returned to Buffalo in nineteen
seventy seven, Mary discovered that she

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was pregnant. It wasn't planned,
but Bill and Mary were both thrilled.

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As Mary's pregnancy progressed, Bill buckled
down and went to work on his dissertation

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on comparative mysticism, heading to the
library almost daily. He set a goal

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of finishing it before the baby was
born, and sure enough he did it.

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Well, that's amazing. Leana was
born in April of nineteen seventy eight.

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Bill got a job teaching first at
Vassar College, about three hours away

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from Utica. He didn't love it
at Vassar, and when a job pair

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came through town, Bill went and
connected with some people from Furman University,

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a private university located in Greenville,
South Carolina. They offered him a job,

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so Bill, Mary and baby Leanna
packed up and moved down south.

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They bought a little farmhouse in the
country, where Bill planted and grew a

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few marijuana plants. Oh my gosh, that's so weird because we're recording this

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on four twenty I know, how
crazy, mostly for personal use, although

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he gave or sold some to a
few of Mary's sisters, his own brother,

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and some friends. This experience with
growing pot would later cause Bill problems

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as some people wanted to portray him
as a big time drug dealer who was

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creating a super crop of marijuana.
In nineteen eighty, Mary gave birth to

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a second daughter, Tamaran, also
known as Tammy. While they were living

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in South Carolina. After teaching for
three years, Bill talked to an old

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friend who said he was going to
school to be a chiropractor. As Bill

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learned more about chiropractic medicine, he
became intrigued. It seemed like a great

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fit with his personal beliefs about the
balance between mind, body, and spirit.

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Bill had his doubts about going back
to school, though he was in

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his mid thirties by this point and
chiropractic school would take him another four or

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five years. But one day he
read a Dear Abbey advice column where someone

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had written in saying that he was
thirty five years old and wanted to go

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to med school, but this person
was concerned about being in his mid forties

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by the time he had finished the
eight year program. Abby wisely replied,

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quote, how old will you be
in eight years if you don't attend medical

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school. She's so wise that,
dear Abbey. That was enough for Bill.

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He told Mary about his idea and
she loved it. In fact,

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she said, I'll do it too, and we can become chiropractors together.

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So they have two kids and they're
both like, oh, we're gonna I'm

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amazed, Like, yeah, they
would go to school and raise their kids,

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and it's like, how did they
find time to do all this?

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How did they find the money to
do it? Well? That too,

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Yeah, I think it was a
different time. Once they finished their degrees,

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they moved back to Utica and put
together a business plan. Out of

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that was born Chiropractic Family Care in
nineteen eighty eight, where Mary and Bill

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worked together for the next twenty seven
years until Mary's death in nineteen ninety two.

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Years after they moved back to Utica, Mary gave birth to their third

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and final child, a boy they
named Adam. I love the name Adam.

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From there, we fast forward twenty
five years to the summer of twenty

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fifteen. Leanna and Tameron are grown
up and moved out. Leanna is a

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doctor living five hours away on Long
Island, taking some time off her work

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as a general practitioner to raise her
own four children. Tameron lives an hour

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away from Utica in Cooperstown. Adam
is done with high school and going to

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college, but lacks direction. He
would go to college for a couple of

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years, starting at the local community
college, and then change his mind about

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his career direction, drop out,
then go back and try something different.

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Among the areas he studied were digital
animation, theater, Chinese mathematics, and

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computer science. Quite the variety of
right interests. For a while, Adam

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had worked for his parents and set
their clinic, working the front desk,

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checking patients in, and doing general
office management work. He could only work

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part time because of his schoolwork,
so he suggested that his parents hire his

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girlfriend at the time, a young
woman named Katie Connolly. Katie started their

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part time as well, and then
in early twenty fourteen, when Adam decided

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he needed to focus on school,
he told his parents they should hire Katie

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full time. They were reluctant at
first because they knew Adam and Katie's relationship

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was a bit tumultuous and they didn't
want any relationship drum in the office,

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but Adam assured them that they would
keep a strict separation between the personal and

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professional. I have a feeling,
because you're telling us this that it's not

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going to be so professional. I
can't slip anything past. Eventually, Bill

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and Mary agreed, and twenty one
year old Katie became their full time receptionist

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slash office manager. During the summer
of twenty fifteen, Bill and Mary were

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starting to plan what was next for
them. By this point, they had

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been running the clinic for twenty seven
years. Mary was sixty and Bill was

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approaching seventy. They decided it was
time to think about selling the business and

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retiring. Bill had already scaled back
his hours. He worked Tuesdays and Thursdays

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only, still seeing patients, but
less and less as time went on.

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Their plan was to find someone qualified
to take over the business, bring them

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in, and work with that person
for a year or so before handing over

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the reins. Their biggest concern was
their patients. They wanted to be sure

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they found someone that the patients liked
and were comfortable with. In the short

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term, though, they were planning
the vocation of a lifetime for September and

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October of twenty fifteen. The previous
Christmas, their daughter Leanna had gifted them

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a week long cruise. Since they
hadn't really taken a vacation since their honeymoon,

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they decided they would tack on an
extra three weeks before the cruise and

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use that time to travel around Europe. During the summer of twenty fifteen,

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they were busy mapping out the trip
in detail. They had a big calendar

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on the wall where they were building
their itinerary, and they had arranged for

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a chiropractor friend of theirs to work
at the clinic part time to see those

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patients who couldn't go a month without
treatment. Life was as perfect as it

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could be. Bill later reflected financially, the Yoders weren't super well off when

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thinking about retirement. Their chiropractic business
had always been more about helping people.

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If someone couldn't pay, they would
always work something out. The business would

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definitely generate some cash when they sold
it, but probably not enough to retire

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on. In twenty ten, Bill
published his second book, The Happy Mind,

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Seven Principles to Clear Your Head and
Lift Your Heart. He sometimes held

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workshops and seminars, and also sold
self help CDs. It was pretty small

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scale compared to the big self help
gurus of the time like Tony Robbins,

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but it did generate a little extra
income. Also, Bill had recently inherited

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four hundred thousand dollars from his father, but as he confided to his daughter

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Tameron, he wasn't sure whether they
would have enough money for two people to

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live off of indefinitely. Monday,
July twentieth, twenty fifteen, started as

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an ordinary day. Mary was going
into the office as usual, and it

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was Bill's day at home to putter
around and maybe run some errands. Bill

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kissed Mary goodbye, as he always
did when she left for work. It

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was a beautiful day and Mary was
planning to do some work in her garden

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after her work at the clinic was
done. Patients who saw Mary that morning

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said she was her usual vibrant,
energetic self. At lunchtime, she told

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Katie at the front desk that she
was going to drive over and check on

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Grammy. That's how everyone referred to
Mary's mother, who was ninety three years

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old. The office normally closed for
an hour during lunch. Mary apparently didn't

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eat lunch with her mother though.
Instead, when she got back to the

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office, she mixed a protein shake
from Shackley Protein Powder and almond milk.

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Mary was passionate about organic foods supplements
and often would drink a shackly shake instead

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of lunch or as a pick me
up in the afternoon. She was a

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00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:10.599
rep for the company and sold their
products in a little shop that was part

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of the clinic, along with pottery, books and herbal supplements. The last

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couple of patients who saw Mary at
the end of that day noticed immediately that

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something was off. She seemed distracted, low energy, and she left the

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treatment room several times to use the
bathroom, something she never did when she

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was working with patients. Around six
thirty PM, Mary called home, as

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she usually did, to let Bill
know that she was leaving the office.

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When Bill was home, he would
normally prepare something for dinner when Mary was

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on her way, but on this
day Bill could tell that Mary wasn't herself.

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She told Bill she was feeling really
sick and probably wouldn't want to eat.

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Mary hardly ever got sick, and
when she did, she wasn't one

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to complain. As soon as Mary
got home, she rushed to the bathroom

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to vomit. When she emerged after
about thirty minutes, Bill's saw that she

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was pale and sweaty and barely able
to walk. He helped her to the

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couch and brought a bucket over in
case she had to throw up. Around

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nine thirty PM, she told Bill
that she was going to sleep on the

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couch and hopefully feel better in the
morning. At six thirty am, Bill

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came downstairs to check on Mary.
She seemed the same, maybe even worse

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than the night before. She said
she had hardly slept it all. She

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had been up all night with abdominal
pains, vomiting, and diarrhea. Bill

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called their daughter, Leanna, who
was a doctor. Leanna told Bill to

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take Mary to the er right away
if nothing else, she was probably very

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dehydrated and would need fluids. At
the emergency room, Mary was put on

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an IV to hydrate her. They
ran several tests and gave her medication to

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help with the nausea and the diarrhea. The treatment helped a bit, and

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Mary spent much of the day dozing
in and out of sleep. At one

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point, Mary asked Bill to run
home and get her asthma medication because she

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was having some trouble breathing due to
allergies, she thought. When Bill returned,

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he saw medical staff rushing around at
Mary's bedside. They said she had

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been struggling to catch her breath and
so they were giving her a nebulizer breathing

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treatment. They stabilized her and she
seemed to be feeling slightly better, But

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what was wrong with Mary? None
of the tests that they ran on were

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giving clear answers. They decided to
keep her overnight to monitor her condition.

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By evening, Mary seemed to be
doing better, but her throat was so

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raw from vomiting that she had a
hard time speaking. Although the doctors still

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didn't know what it was, they
believed it would pass, and they told

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00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.519
Bill there was no reason to be
too concerned. It was probably some type

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of gastro intestinal bug, although there
was also some speculation that it might be

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her gallbladder. Mary told Bill she
was utterly exhausted, so he should go

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home, get some rest, and
go to work in the clinic the next

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day, which was Wednesday, to
cover for her so that they didn't have

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to cancel any of their patient's appointments. Bill promised to swing by in the

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morning on his way into the clinic
to check on her. That night,

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Bill put his cell phone in the
spare bedroom to check. That was normally

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what Bill and Mary did, and
he didn't think much of it. Mary

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seemed like she was on the upswing
when he left her that night, and

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her doctors didn't seem too concerned.
But the next morning, he woke at

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five thirty am to a banging at
the front door. Two state troopers were

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there, saying that the hospital had
been trying to get a hold of him.

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Mary had taken a turn for the
worse overnight and she was in the

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ICU. I didn't know that a
hospital would do that to reach someone.

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I didn't either. That surprised me
as well, but I guess that's what

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they do. And also, if
I was in the hospital, you probably

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would keep your cell phone on you. I would. I think it was

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just I don't think he was thinking
about it. I think it was just

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one of those things that it was
just what he normally did. Oh,

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you're always defending Bill, aren't you. Gets So Bill rushed back to the

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hospital, where doctors told him that
Mary had fallen during the night and that

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her heart had stopped. They were
able to resuscitate her, but it wasn't

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00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.039
looking good. Bill was allowed to
go into her room in the ICU.

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She was intubated, strapped to the
bed, and had iv IS in her

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arm. She was awake and alert, but she couldn't talk or move.

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She could just move her eyes,
and she seemed terrified, not knowing what

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was happening to her. Bill spoke
to her softly, telling her how much

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he loved her. Adam soon showed
up at the hospital. He had been

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staying with his sister Leanna and her
family down in Long Island for the past

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few days. When he heard about
his mother's hospitalization the night before, he

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decided to make the five hour drive
overnight, stopping at a friend's house to

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get a couple of hours of sleep
before heading into the hospital. Bill called

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Leana and Tamarin that morning, telling
them to come right away. Tammy lived

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only an hour away, so she
got there in the morning, but for

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Leanna it would take around six hours
with traffic. She left her house around

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00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:47.200
six am. The only other person
beyond immediate family who came to the hospital

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that day was Katie. Even though
she and Adam were broken up at this

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time, they still talked regularly and
she wanted to support him. Having worked

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closely with both Mary and Bill over
the last couple of years. Katie was

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also devastated. Did Katie still work
at the clinic? She did. Yeah.

356
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:06.839
During the course of that day,
Mary flatlined six or seven times.

357
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Each time a team would rush in
tell Bill, Adam and Tammy that they

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00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.640
needed to leave, and then they
revived Mary. Around two pm, Mary

359
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.200
flatlined for about the seventh time that
day. This time, doctors told Bill

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that although they were able to revive
her again, her eyes were fixed and

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dilated, meaning that she was likely
braindead. Soon after, though, the

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doctor checked on her again and found
that she was once again responsive. He

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told Bill and the kids, quote, I don't know how this happened,

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but she's responsive again. You can
all go in and see her. The

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00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:42.039
doctor later said he had never seen
anything like it. Bill felt like Mary

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was hanging on until Leanna got there, which she finally did around two twenty

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pm. A few minutes later,
Mary went into full cardiac arrest, with

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her husband and all her kids by
her bedside. Doctors were unsuccessful in attempts

369
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to revive her this time. Mary
Yoder was pronounced dead at two fifty four

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pm on July twenty second, twenty
fifteen. Oh my god, so within

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00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:10.920
three days. She went from this
virbrant, energetic, healthy picture of health

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and happiness to yeah, dead,
I know, so shocking. Her children

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must have been shocked. Yeah yeah. The ICU doctors asked Bill if he

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would release Mary's body for an autopsy, and he agreed. Everyone wanted answers.

375
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Just a few days earlier, Bill
and Mary had been planning for retirement

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00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:33.319
and the vacation of a lifetime,
and now Mary was gone. What could

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cause a healthy, vigorous, sixty
year old woman to suddenly get sick and

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die. Mary's body was taken to
the Medical Examiner's office in Onondaga County and

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scheduled for an autopsy the next morning. We'll be back after a break.

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Most autopsies are relatively straightforward going into
it. There's usually a pretty good idea

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of the cause of death, and
the autopsy helps to confirm it. But

382
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in the case of Mary's death,
it was truly a medical mystery. They

383
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:11.759
knew she had suffered multiple organ failures
over a twenty four hour period, which

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was very strange. The initial hypothesis
going into the autopsy was ascending colinchitis,

385
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essentially an infection in the colon that
finds its way into the liver and then

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the bloodstream, which can be fatal, but this was just a theory.

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Doctor Kenneth Clark was assigned to conduct
the autopsy. He requested all of Mary's

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hospital records and consulted with Mary's doctors, nurses, and family members. Leanna,

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being a doctor herself, became the
intermediary between the medical examiner and the

390
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:49.160
Yoder family. In the first phase
of the autopsy, which is the external

391
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:55.279
examination of the body, doctor Clark
noted that Mary had several bruises and injuries

392
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on her body, but they were
all apparently caused by her treatment, all

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00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:02.720
the injections and the many times that
she had to be revived by doctors,

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as well as the fall she took
the night before she died. In the

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00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.759
second phase, the internal examination,
he noticed right away that some of her

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00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:17.559
organs were strangely discolored. Her intestinal
track was modeled red, green, and

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00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.759
purple. Her liver was discolored,
and so was her heart. I've never

398
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.359
heard of this before. Doctor Clark
had never seen anything like it in the

399
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.960
more than thousand autopsies he had done
in his career. For the third and

400
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:34.640
final phase of the autopsy, doctor
Clark took some tissue samples to examine under

401
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:41.160
a microscope and also send out for
toxicological testing. By August fourth, he

402
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.880
had gotten a lot of the testing
results back, but he still had no

403
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.839
clear indication of what killed Mary.
Doctor Clark gave Leanna an update that day.

404
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:55.599
Here's what he knew. One,
the culture results didn't show any evidence

405
00:28:55.599 --> 00:29:00.880
of bacteria. Two, he had
found evidence of apoptosis. Why did you

406
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.759
give me this section with the autopsy
results? It was very well planned part

407
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:11.160
which is also known as programmed cell
death or pre programmed cells suicide. While

408
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.000
programmed cell death is going on in
our bodies all the time, doctor Clark

409
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:21.480
noted an excessive amount of cell death
in nearly every organ he examined. He

410
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:26.680
had never seen this in all the
autopsies he had performed. The conclusion was

411
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:32.440
that some outside source had entered Mary's
system, injuring the cells and initiating a

412
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:37.039
process of programmed cell death, which
ultimately resulted in her death. In other

413
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:41.440
words, her death was the result
of some type of toxic exposure, not

414
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:47.839
an infection. Leanna filled in the
family if they wondered if Mary had come

415
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:51.920
into contact with some type of toxin
without knowing it. She was really into

416
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.480
gardening, even though she took great
care to do everything naturally and organically.

417
00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:02.279
Was it possible that some pesticide or
fertilizer had gotten into her system, or

418
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:07.599
maybe the supplements she took somehow tainted
her. They also wondered if Adam might

419
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:11.440
have been exposed to the same toxin. A few months earlier, in April,

420
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.079
Adam had gotten very ill, and
his symptoms were similar to Mary's.

421
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.160
He had recovered after three or four
weeks, but it was the sickest he

422
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.799
had ever been, even necessitating a
trip to the er. At the time.

423
00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:27.839
When Mary's toxicology results came back,
the mystery deepened. All of the

424
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:33.680
usual toxins tested for came back negative. They sent out for additional tests of

425
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:40.359
some less common toxins, including cyanide, arsenic, barium, and antimony.

426
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:45.839
Those all came back negative. They
realized they must be dealing with something pretty

427
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:49.720
rare. The problem was by this
time Mary's body had been released by the

428
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:56.519
medical examiner and cremated in accordance with
her wishes, and there was very little

429
00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:00.839
blood left to test. The lab's
toxicologist took doctor Clark, quote, whatever

430
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:07.680
you want to test for next you
should choose it carefully. Oh man,

431
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.960
that's really autopsies. And we've had
this happen in other cases where there's just

432
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:15.079
not enough blood left to test.
Yeah, and I'm sure, like as

433
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:17.640
a medical examiner, you just don't
think about it. You're like, yeah,

434
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:19.000
we're gonna find out what it is
and it's not going to be that

435
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:26.279
hard. But yeah, it's crazy. Doctor Clark consulted with his boss,

436
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.880
the chief medical examiner. They decided
to take a walk across the street to

437
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:36.519
the Upstate New York Poison Center and
consult with the experts over there. After

438
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:41.160
searching through their database looking for similar
cases, one possibility that came up was

439
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:45.640
a drug called cult scene. Did
I say that right? It's an anti

440
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:51.599
inflammatory drug, sometimes prescribed to treat
out, and it can be fatal even

441
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:56.920
in relatively small amounts of a few
milligrams. So it's something that's deadly but

442
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.000
prescribed. Well, I think like
a lot of drugs are, you know,

443
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:02.920
but you're saying that it's an extremely
small amount that can be deadly here,

444
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.039
right, so you know if you
accidentally take an extra pill, you

445
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.359
know, that could potentially kill you. Yeah, you should be really careful

446
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:15.160
not to take an extra pill.
Gout is a form of inflammatory arthritis,

447
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.759
which could be a reason people go
in to see a chiropractor, so it

448
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:22.880
seemed like a possibility that they might
have the drug at the clinic and perhaps

449
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:28.359
Mary had accidentally ingested it. They
sent the last sample of Mary's blood to

450
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.839
test for colchisine and sure enough,
the results came back positive. Colchisceine was

451
00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:37.680
confirmed to be the cause of Mary's
death, but the next question was how

452
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:44.319
had it gotten into her system.
On September eighteenth, doctor Clark told Leanna

453
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:47.759
that they were certain that colchisceine was
the cause of Mary's death, and that

454
00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:54.640
at this point they were considering it
a possible case of accidental contamination. Bill

455
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:59.599
gathered anything he could think of that
Mary might have ingested, all of her

456
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:04.440
supplements, her shackly protein powder,
any food items that she had at the

457
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.680
home and the office. He turned
them all over to the medical examiner's office.

458
00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:14.000
COLT scene works pretty quickly, so
it's likely that Mary ingested it sometime

459
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.599
on the day she first got sick, Monday, July twentieth. Bill texted

460
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:22.400
Katie asking if she remembered any Patience
bringing Mary something to eat or drink that

461
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:27.519
day. Katie said no. She
said that Mary had gone to her mom's

462
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.200
at lunchtime, but she didn't think
that Mary ate anything while she was there.

463
00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:36.400
She said that Mary had her protein
shake made from her own protein powder

464
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.559
and almond milk after she got back, along with her vitamins. Nothing new

465
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:44.519
or different than her usual routine.
Didn't you say that Bill cooked all their

466
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:46.880
meals or than the day usually cooked
dinner on the day she worked. Yeah.

467
00:33:47.519 --> 00:33:52.640
Three days after Mary's death, the
family held the celebration of life gathering.

468
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:55.519
They chose to have it at Bill
and Mary's home because Mary's garden was

469
00:33:55.559 --> 00:34:00.880
in full bloom. Over two hundred
people showed up. Bill was having a

470
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:04.359
hard time facing people after the sudden
loss of his wife, and he stayed

471
00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:08.159
upstairs through much of the event.
Bill's daughter Leanna didn't know how to console

472
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:13.559
her dad, and she was worried
that he might be suicidal. She suggested

473
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:16.639
that her dad reach out to Mary's
sister Kathleen to talk to her. Mary

474
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:22.119
had been close to her older sister, and Kathleen had lost her husband unexpectedly

475
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:24.960
about a year earlier, so she
had been through what Bill was going through

476
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:30.280
not so long ago. At the
celebration of life, Kathleen gave Bill a

477
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:32.880
letter in which she offered her support
and said she was there if he wanted

478
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:37.519
to talk. A few days later, Bill called her and then went over

479
00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:40.280
to Kathleen's house, which was nearby, to talk. He felt like it

480
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:45.639
was helpful, and they made plans
to get together again. Soon after that,

481
00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:49.039
Bill went out west with Adam for
a few weeks to see family and

482
00:34:49.239 --> 00:34:52.679
just to get away from it all. He and Kathleen exchanged some texts during

483
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.760
their trip, and when he got
back home on August twenty fifth, he

484
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:00.719
texted Kathleen quote, I've missed you
over the last couple of weeks, and

485
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:05.719
I'm looking forward to spending some time
together. So God, Bill, you

486
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:09.880
see where this is going. I
mean, I keep going. In September,

487
00:35:09.920 --> 00:35:15.719
Bill and Kathleen's relationship turned romantic.
Their texts became more flirty, and

488
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:20.079
they started talking on the phone for
hours. By early October, the two

489
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:23.280
were in love in a time so
Bill. In a text from October seventh,

490
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.800
Bill wrote, quote, sitting here
with a glass of wine and your

491
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.079
photo telling you about my amazing day. Your smile melts my heart, and

492
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:36.800
I keep falling in love all over
again. Unquote. If any of my

493
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:42.679
sisters happened to be listening, don't
go near my husband for at least,

494
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:45.639
I don't know. I don't know
what the right amount of time is because

495
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:50.639
life is short. I mean Bill's
seventies. He's seventy years old. Yeah,

496
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:52.880
and I know that'll not not all
men, but a lot of men

497
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:58.519
have a hard time being alone.
There's just a huge factor here, for

498
00:35:58.599 --> 00:36:02.920
there is a huge factor for By
mid October, three months after Mary's death,

499
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:07.360
the medical examiner was still working on
the investigation and treating it as most

500
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:12.800
likely an accidental poisoning. They hadn't
gotten the police involved at all to this

501
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:17.679
point. That changed on October fifteenth, when another of Mary's sisters, Sharon

502
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:23.480
Mills, called the Oneida County Sheriff's
office. Detective Mark van Nami took the

503
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:29.079
call. Sharon asked him if anyone
was investigating the death of Mary Yoder.

504
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.239
Van Nami hadn't heard the name before, and so he asked Sharon for some

505
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:37.119
details. She provided the background and
told him that the medical examiner had determined

506
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:43.480
Mary's cause of death to be colchi
sceine toxicity. After getting off the phone,

507
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:47.079
Van nameI googled colchiscene and saw that
it was pretty unusual to be used

508
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:52.079
in a poisoning. He saw that
it was difficult to purchase, which meant

509
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:55.320
if someone had bought it, there
would be a paper trail somewhere. Van

510
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.239
Nami then reached out to the Medical
Examiner's office, which told him that they

511
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.239
hadn't ruled anything out yet, but
they weren't really looking at it as criminal

512
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.000
at this point. They agreed to
stay in touch as things moved forward.

513
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:12.320
Van Nami then talked to his lieutenant
and they agreed it made sense to make

514
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:17.480
a few preliminary inquiries while the medical
examiner was continuing his investigation. Van Nami

515
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:22.199
reached back out to Sharon and interviewed
her further. He was very interested in

516
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:25.440
Bill right off the bat, seeing
as he was the spouse and also a

517
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:30.000
doctor who might have access to a
drug like colchi scene. Sharon told van

518
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:34.920
nameI that Bill had a brilliant mind
and that if he killed Mary they would

519
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:40.119
never catch him. Van Nami also
sent evidence preservation letters to Verizon related to

520
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:45.360
Mary and Bill's phone numbers to ensure
that nothing got deleted. He also did

521
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:49.679
a database search for any life insurance
claims that had been filed after Mary's death,

522
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:52.920
but nothing came back. Nothing much
happened in the next month. Near

523
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:57.760
the end of November, there was
a meeting between the two pathologists who had

524
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:02.360
worked on Mary's case to Van Nami
and his lieutenant and Lori Leasy, the

525
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:07.239
assistant district attorney. They spent three
hours laying out all the facts that they

526
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:13.880
currently had. After the meeting,
Van Nami sent evidence preservation letters to UPS

527
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:17.960
and FedEx regarding any shipments that they
had made to the yoder's home or office.

528
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.079
Again, they were thinking that because
col chesine was a treatment for gout,

529
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:27.840
maybe someone had ordered it to be
delivered to the office. They were

530
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:34.440
no further in determining whether this had
been an accidental poisoning or an intentional homicide.

531
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.559
But three days after their meeting on
November twenty third, that all changed

532
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:44.559
when an anonymous letter arrived at the
Medical Examiner's office and an identical copy of

533
00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:50.119
the letter arrived at the police department. Uh oh. This letter was two

534
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:52.599
typed pages. We won't read the
entire thing, but here are the most

535
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:59.000
relevant parts. Quote I know the
police are currently looking into this death,

536
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.440
but I don't know where it is
send this information. This is in regards

537
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:06.679
to the July twenty second death of
Mary Yoda and Udica, New York.

538
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:12.159
If the toxin found in her was
colch scene, Adam Yoder, her son,

539
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:15.639
is responsible. He told me he
did it, and moreover, he

540
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:21.400
told me how and where he put
the rest of the toxin. Adam drove

541
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.559
back so early that day after her
death, arriving in Utica at six thirty

542
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:30.280
am, meaning that he left Long
Island very early morning because she was in

543
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:34.159
grave condition. Then it's weird that
he drive down to Long Island and then

544
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.719
go back north in the middle of
the night, especially since he'd been so

545
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:42.559
standoffish and just mean to her,
telling her he functioned better by not seeing

546
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.639
or talking to her. He felt
she was unfamiliar to him, and he

547
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:50.639
resented that she should have helped him
more. I think what the letter writer

548
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:52.840
is referring to. I didn't mention
it, but Adam and his mother had

549
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:57.920
a fight on Mother's Day. I
don't think it was super consequential or super

550
00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:00.400
bad, but I think that's what
the person is referring to is something to

551
00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:04.360
do with that fight. And then
Adam had gone down to see his sister.

552
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.079
He was there in Long Island.
He left like late at night to

553
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.360
get back to her hospital bed early
the morning that she ended up passing away.

554
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:15.079
Well, she should have helped him
more. Do you know what they're

555
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:17.239
referring to just in life? I
think, yeah, I think in general,

556
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:21.480
the person writing the letter is saying
that Adam was resentful that his mom

557
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:24.599
didn't help him more. The letter
continues, When I saw him a couple

558
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:29.639
of days ago, he appeared agitated, and he said he was the reason

559
00:40:29.719 --> 00:40:32.920
for her death and he wished he
could take it back. Then he said

560
00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:37.239
he got a bottle of Colchi sceine
off online and put the toxin in one

561
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:42.320
of her vitamins. When he was
over at his parents' house, he said

562
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.719
his mom noticed he seemed disturbed at
the time, and she thought it was

563
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:49.679
since he was drinking at their house. Adam said he told her, no,

564
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:52.320
beer isn't not the reason that he
was disturbed, and to drop it.

565
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:57.960
He said he apologized to his parents
for ruining the holiday of Father's Day

566
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.440
and left. I said they got
a fight on they did. Apparently there

567
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:05.639
was also a fight on father's and
the mother's in father's finger thy tough,

568
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:09.400
The letter continues, Adam was upset
people weren't paying more attention to him.

569
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:14.440
He felt he deserved more attention,
and he thought people should be nicer to

570
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:21.119
him. Same he acted resentful and
belligerent to his immediate family and became visibly

571
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:27.079
irritated people kept talking about his mom. He says he expected a financial payout

572
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:30.119
after the death, which did not
come. After he found out he was

573
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:34.920
not getting the money he thought he
would, he said he regretted what he

574
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:37.639
did. He was hysterical and he
didn't know what he was going to do,

575
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.480
but he had ideas. He said
that now the Colcha scene container is

576
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:47.199
under the front seat of the jeep. Was that his jeep? That's where

577
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:51.800
he said it was until he figures
out where to put it or dispose of

578
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.039
it next. I asked him to
show me where he kept it currently,

579
00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:59.760
but he said no, but described
a small glass bottle. I'm sending this

580
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.960
anonymously because I can't keep this information. It is right to alert authorities,

581
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:07.920
but it's still hard to do.
I fear attaching my name to give the

582
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:13.000
information. Right now, I'm very
close to him, but what he did

583
00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:17.079
was wrong, and I believe he
would be capable of repeating the act.

584
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:21.760
That's the end of the letter.
The letter goes on to provide details of

585
00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:27.639
Mary's illness and death in order to
add credibility. This was clearly someone that

586
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:30.880
was close to this situation, like
maybe, can I say yeah if you

587
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:37.800
want to speculate, Katie. Investigators
took DNA samples from those who handled the

588
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:42.960
letter internally for elimination purposes, then
sent the letter an envelope to the New

589
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:47.519
York State Crime Lab for testing.
Before receiving the letter, investigators still hadn't

590
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:52.480
been sure whether a homicide had actually
been committed, and if it had been

591
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:58.679
the only person of interest so far
was Bill Yoder. The letter changed everything.

592
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:04.400
Obviously, they would need to speak
with Adam Yoder before calling Adam in

593
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:09.519
though Detective van Nami first subpoenaed easy
past records for Bill, Mary, and

594
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:15.800
Adam Yoder to see where they were
at at various times around Mary's illness and

595
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:19.920
death. He also attempted to get
a search warrant for Adam's vehicle, but

596
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.239
it was denied by the judge.
The precedent was that anonymous information is presumed

597
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:30.599
to be false, so it would
require additional corroborating information in order to get

598
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:36.039
a warrant. Investigators also did some
basic research on both Bill and Adam,

599
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:39.840
where they lived, what vehicles they
drove, things like that. They also

600
00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:45.559
learned that Bill and Mary had two
other kids, Leanna and Tammy, and

601
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.639
that Mary had several siblings. Do
we know how many siblings Mary had?

602
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:53.800
She was the third of eight children. That's right, there were six girls

603
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:59.679
and two boys. Yes. Then
they started interviewing people. Typically, if

604
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:01.960
you have some persons of interest,
you don't start with them right away.

605
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:07.639
You start further out and work your
way toward the persons of interest. Is

606
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:09.519
that you're your own personal experience there
with the police price, Yes, as

607
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:14.039
a long time invested year, that's
the way I usually run the case.

608
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:19.199
In this case, Bill and Adam
were the two primary persons of interest,

609
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:23.320
so first detectives interviewed Leanna, who
confirmed that Adam had been at her house

610
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:29.639
in Long Long Island starting a few
days before Mary got sick and left late

611
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:34.360
the night before Mary died. The
Easy Past records were consistent with this as

612
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:38.199
well. They also interviewed Bill and
Mary's other daughter, Tammy, Mary's siblings,

613
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.519
and some of Mary's friends, and
the patients who saw her on the

614
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:45.800
day she became ill. No one
could come up with any reason why someone

615
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:51.400
would want to murder Mary. Everyone
loved her. You could say there's something

616
00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:54.559
about Mary, I guess you could. They also learned from their interviews that

617
00:44:54.639 --> 00:45:00.800
Bill was now in a relationship with
Mary's sister Kathleen, which he raised some

618
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:06.480
eyebrows, including my own. By
December eighth, they were ready to talk

619
00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:09.199
to Adam. Detective Van Name called
him up, explained who he was,

620
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:13.760
and said they'd like to speak with
him. Adam said I'll be right there,

621
00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:16.639
and he showed up within an hour. Van Nami was curious whether Adam

622
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:21.079
would show up in his jeep Wrangler, which is where the anonymous letter writer

623
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:23.679
said the leftover colchia scene was stored, and sure enough, he did.

624
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:30.199
After going through some basic background questions, Detective Van Name he told Adam about

625
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:32.239
the letter. He didn't give a
lot of details, but he said that

626
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:37.119
the letter led them to believe there
was evidence of the crime in his vehicle

627
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:40.280
and asked Adam if he would allow
them to check the specific spot under the

628
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:45.039
front seat of his car. Adam
hesitated. He said, quote, I

629
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:49.239
want to be more than cooperative with
you, but I'd like to talk to

630
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:53.199
an attorney before I consent to this
search unquote van nameI asked if he had

631
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:58.119
an attorney in mind, and Adam
said no, So the detective offered to

632
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.719
get a public defender that Adam could
consult with. Adam spoke with the public

633
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:06.039
defender on the phone in private for
ten minutes, and then he agreed to

634
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:10.440
the search. Adam van Nami and
a forensic technician went out to the vehicle.

635
00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:14.960
There was a ton of garbage and
rubbish on the floor of the vehicle.

636
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:19.719
Apparently Adam was a big slob,
but the forensic technician reached under the

637
00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:23.639
front passenger seat with a gloved hand
and immediately pulled out a small glass bottle

638
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:29.320
wrapped in cardboard, along with a
wadded up receipt for the purchase of one

639
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:32.840
gram of colchissine one hundred and eighty
nine dollars and twenty two cents from a

640
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:38.119
company called Art Chemicals, shipped to
Bill and Mary's office address in early February

641
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:44.400
of twenty fifteen. The ship to
company name on the receipt was Cairo Family

642
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:49.679
Care, slightly different from the actual
business name, which was Chiropractic Family Care.

643
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:53.719
The receipt also contained an email address
for the person who ordered the colchisine,

644
00:46:54.320 --> 00:47:00.360
mister Adam Yoder nineteen ninety at gmail
dot com. On st seeing a

645
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:04.440
glass bottle and the receipt, Adam
said, quote, I've never seen that

646
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:08.000
before. It was certainly put there
by someone else. Unquote. Oh wow,

647
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:13.320
this is real mystery, isn't it. It really is. It's a

648
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:19.199
little weird that the anonymous letter knew
exactly where the chemical was. That is

649
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:21.920
a little weird, isn't it.
Also one hundred and eighty nine dollars for

650
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:28.800
one gram. That's really precise,
not cheap. The receipt and the email

651
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.199
address on the receipt were solid leads
for the investigators to follow. They called

652
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:37.599
the company Art Chemicals and confirmed that
the mister Adam Yoder nineteen ninety email address

653
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:43.960
was used as the primary point of
contact for the Colcha scene purchase. Detective

654
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:49.119
Van Nami then issued a subpoena to
Google for information about the mister Adam Yoder

655
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:53.760
nineteen ninety Gmail account. A subpoena
would provide some basic information about the account,

656
00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:59.239
where when it was created, and
the IP addresses that were used for

657
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:04.719
logging in logging out. The subpoena
results came back and showed the IP addresses,

658
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:07.880
but to get more detail on the
physical location of those IP addresses,

659
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.119
they would have to issue additional subpoenas, which would take some time. Well

660
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:17.119
at this point, investigators were still
focused on Bill and Adam, but they

661
00:48:17.159 --> 00:48:22.400
felt like the anonymous letter and the
col Chia scene in Adam's jeep were most

662
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:27.159
likely an attempt to frame him.
Adam had been very cooperative and it didn't

663
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:30.039
make sense that he would drive his
jeep to the police station knowing that the

664
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.000
murder weapon was sitting under the front
seat, and there's no way he would

665
00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:39.440
have consented to a search knowing the
Colchi sceine was there. Investigators wondered about

666
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:44.920
Bill's relationship with Kathleen, which they
had learned about in their interview with Bill's

667
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:50.199
daughter Leanna. Did the relationship really
start over a month after Mary's death or

668
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:53.960
could it have started before Mary died. Either way, the relationship looked bad

669
00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:58.920
for Bill and made him a leading
suspect. But what kind of father would

670
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:02.159
commit a murder and then try to
frame his son with an anonymous letter that

671
00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:07.719
would have to be one cold hearted
dad? Was that a foreshadow? I'm

672
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.519
trying to keep you guessing here.
I hope I'm doing a good job of

673
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.400
it. I am no. I
didn't even think about the relationship between Bill

674
00:49:15.480 --> 00:49:21.000
and Kathleen started before her death.
I'm so nicive, are yeah. Another

675
00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:24.159
person whose name came up in the
interview with Leanna was Katie Conley. She

676
00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:29.519
was the office manager at the chiropractic
clinics, so it's likely that she would

677
00:49:29.519 --> 00:49:32.800
have signed for any packages. Also, she was the only other person working

678
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:37.320
at the office the day Mary got
sick. She knew the inner workings of

679
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.000
the office, and she and Adam
had dated, although they were broken up

680
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:45.480
at the time of Mary's death.
Police decided to call Katie in for an

681
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:52.119
interview before they interviewed Bill. On
December eighteenth, Detective Van Nami called Katie

682
00:49:52.119 --> 00:49:54.719
and asked if she could come in. They said they needed her help as

683
00:49:54.760 --> 00:50:00.519
they prepared to interview Bill. They
wanted to understand how things worked at the

684
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:05.719
office, especially regarding shipping and receiving, the dynamic between Bill and Mary,

685
00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:08.920
and what took place on the day
that Mary became ill. She came in

686
00:50:08.960 --> 00:50:13.440
and spoke with investigators for a couple
of hours on the eighteenth and again on

687
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:17.840
the nineteenth. She struck the detectives
as forthcoming and eager to help. She

688
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:22.679
gave them a recap of her relationship
with Adam, Mary's schedule on the day

689
00:50:22.760 --> 00:50:27.159
she got sick, and what patients
were seen that day. Katie told him

690
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:30.000
that she was aware that some type
of toxin had killed Mary, but hadn't

691
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:35.159
heard what it was. Detective and
Amy told her it was a drug called

692
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:40.519
colchiscene. Katie said that she had
never heard of it. Katie confirmed that

693
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:45.639
she most likely would have signed for
any packages coming into the office. They

694
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:49.800
asked if Adam had ever received packages
at the clinic, knowing that his name

695
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:52.039
had been on the colchis scene order. She said yes, there had been

696
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:57.280
a couple of times. Once in
twenty fourteen he had ordered an iPad or

697
00:50:57.320 --> 00:51:00.159
an iPhone and had it delivered to
the office, and once in early twenty

698
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:05.400
fifteen a package had come address to
Adam Yoder and he had come to pick

699
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.960
it up. They also asked what
email addresses she had for Adam. She

700
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:13.920
knew of a couple of different email
addresses. One was similar to the mister

701
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:17.599
Yoda nineteen ninety email but without the
nineteen ninety on the end, and the

702
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:23.360
other was very different. Over the
next couple of days after their initial interview

703
00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:29.199
with Katie, some interesting new facts
came in from lab testing and subpoenas.

704
00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:34.880
First, the initial DNA testing of
the envelope that contained the anonymous letter showed

705
00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:38.960
that there was female DNA on the
stamp. Second, they were starting to

706
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:45.559
get results on the locations of the
IP addresses where the mister Adam Yoder nineteen

707
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:50.480
ninety Gmail account had been accessed,
and one of those results came up as

708
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:54.840
the Conley residence, where Katie lived
with her parents. We need music sometimes,

709
00:51:54.880 --> 00:52:00.559
I don't know. Can you explain
how IP addresses work really quickly?

710
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:05.760
I mean, an IP address is
like a physical It's like a address for

711
00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:08.480
a physical device. So if you
can trace something back to an IP address,

712
00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:12.239
you know what device that it was
on. And so if it was

713
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:16.039
on your home computer and you can
find out what the IP address is,

714
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:20.519
you can say, oh, this
happened on that computer. So in this

715
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:24.159
case, it was they found out
that this Gmail address was accessed from the

716
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:30.119
computer in Katie's home. Okay,
essentially, I'm computer literate, illiterate,

717
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:34.679
and that just all confuses me.
That's part of the problem with this case

718
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:38.679
is a lot of the evidence is
based on computer forensics and it is super

719
00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:45.000
confusing. I am computer literate.
It confuses me as well. So it's

720
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:50.519
not necessarily the geographical location, but
the device from which it came. Yes.

721
00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:53.280
Up to this point, the police
had looked at Katie as a good

722
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:59.320
source of information on the dynamics of
the Yoder's clinic and relationship. Now they

723
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:04.039
wondered if she was somehow involved.
They were scheduled to interview Bill Yoda for

724
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:07.280
the first time on December twenty third, but they decided to try and get

725
00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:12.239
Katie in one more time before that. She came in on December twenty first.

726
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:15.960
After recapping some of the things they
had discussed previously, Van Nami came

727
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:21.280
around to the email address and the
IP address. She said that if the

728
00:53:21.320 --> 00:53:24.559
email had been accessed from her house, it must have been Adam that did

729
00:53:24.599 --> 00:53:29.599
it. He had been to her
house many times and would have access to

730
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:35.400
her devices. Were they on good
terms Adam and Katie, It depends on

731
00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:37.960
when you asked that question. Like
over time, they were on good terms,

732
00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:43.320
bad terms. It was up and
down. As Van Nami heard Katie

733
00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:45.960
pointing the finger at Adam, his
thoughts went back to the anonymous letter.

734
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:51.519
He asked, Katie, did you
write us that letter? At that question,

735
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:54.840
she got visibly shaky and started crying. Eventually she managed to say,

736
00:53:55.360 --> 00:54:00.239
I am so scared you can't protect
me. Van Nami said, quote,

737
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:04.480
Katie, you might be our only
witness if you wrote us a letter in

738
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:08.719
November. I need to know.
Finally, Katie answered yes, She said

739
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.800
she did write the letter. I
knew it. That was the point.

740
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:17.079
Van Nami later said that Katie went
from being a witness to being a suspect.

741
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:22.880
They decided from that point on any
interactions with her would be recorded and

742
00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:27.199
she would be given her Miranda rights. Prior to speaking with her, the

743
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:30.000
detective stepped out of the room after
Katie admitted to writing the letter, giving

744
00:54:30.039 --> 00:54:34.239
her a break. That that break, they always give you that break to

745
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:38.920
Anilia. During that break, investigators
got word back that another IP address where

746
00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:45.239
the Gmail account had been accessed from
was verified it was Katie's cell phone.

747
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:49.480
After the break, they came back
to question Katie more after reading her her

748
00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:52.320
Miranda rights. They still tried to
play it off as if Adam was their

749
00:54:52.360 --> 00:54:58.119
primary suspect and they were looking for
Katie's help, but the questions became more

750
00:54:58.159 --> 00:55:00.639
direct. At this point. We
were able to get the audio of this

751
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:06.079
interrogation, and we're going to play
a few clips for you. Here they

752
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:10.280
are talking about Katie's cell phone being
used to log into the Gmail account.

753
00:55:10.599 --> 00:55:14.320
And again, I still have a
big problem. We still have to clear

754
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:19.360
you because right now we got that
uh Gmail account that somehow is a tract

755
00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:22.880
attack attached to you, right,
and I'm afraid that it's never gonna be

756
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:27.400
attached to Adam. M m.
Yeah, you keep saying that. Well,

757
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:30.599
I'm not saying it won't be.
I mean, you're s you're Tom.

758
00:55:30.760 --> 00:55:32.440
But right now we definitely want have
to fasten this phone in your house,

759
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:37.440
right mkay. Now, there's no
control for this phone. Only you

760
00:55:37.519 --> 00:55:39.119
do. So we know you went
in. He logged into that that account.

761
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:43.199
There's no saying as about about that. We know that there's no way.

762
00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:45.440
There's no other physical way. You
had to enter a password, you

763
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:51.639
had to log into it. Okay, agree, mkay. There's no other

764
00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:53.559
way. He can't do that.
He's not here. He doesn't have access

765
00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:57.079
to your phone, right, I
don't think so, No, he can't

766
00:55:57.159 --> 00:56:00.199
there We've checked. There's no way
you can get into your phone if he's

767
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:01.239
not here. You'd have to fuse. You can't dive into it, be

768
00:56:01.239 --> 00:56:05.199
anywhere else. You can't get into
your phone, can't do it. So

769
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:07.320
that that's you verifying it, right, So we know you're the one that

770
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:10.679
lobs into this Gmail account, this
account you said, yous uh, you

771
00:56:10.840 --> 00:56:14.320
you don't. That's the thing.
When we ask more specific questions about the

772
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:17.079
Gmail account, you kind of distance
yourself from You're not giving us track good

773
00:56:17.119 --> 00:56:21.760
answers. I'm said, mkay,
but those when you set it up.

774
00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:23.559
When did you set up that account? I didn't set it up, mkay.

775
00:56:23.880 --> 00:56:25.760
But yeah, you know how to
log in and get the password to

776
00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:30.480
it, right, I know the
pest it. Okay, So who set

777
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:34.920
it up? Well? I you
know some of Adam's other passives too,

778
00:56:34.960 --> 00:56:38.159
he knows. M Okay. That
doesn't mean that you set up each other's

779
00:56:38.159 --> 00:56:44.599
accounts. Okay, I understand you
don't set up each other's accounts, but

780
00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:47.119
you get into this account though,
right, mkay, it's like I'm getting

781
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:52.280
the wine. Okay, you're saying
you had to log into that account in

782
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:54.679
and log and shut it down,
right, we know you did that for

783
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:58.840
that far. The sad's a bunzett
about it, right, so we know

784
00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:00.559
what's got into from your house.
Also, you lock into that account,

785
00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:02.880
you have to use a password and
you have to get into it. So

786
00:57:02.960 --> 00:57:07.760
now the question comes going back further
when we get these Idea addresses. If

787
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:09.400
it comes of the IDA addresses come
back to you, we're gonna get come

788
00:57:09.440 --> 00:57:14.000
and say, Okay, what's again. You're logging into these account You're telling

789
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:16.800
us you want they can do the
Gmail account, but yet you do correct.

790
00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:21.519
So that's what I'm saying. You
gotta help us with that Gmail.

791
00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:24.440
Can you dissonance yourself from that Gmail. I'm trying, Okay, I don't

792
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:30.840
want you to, but you can't
tell us about that account. You can

793
00:57:30.840 --> 00:57:35.239
hear Katie getting frustrated there, trying
to explain away the evidence that she accessed

794
00:57:35.239 --> 00:57:37.800
this Gmail account both at home and
on her cell phone. At the end

795
00:57:37.800 --> 00:57:40.800
when she says I'm trying to help, the sound that you hear is her

796
00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:45.119
slamming her water bottle down on the
table. Here's another short clip of her

797
00:57:45.119 --> 00:57:50.400
getting frustrated and the cops trying to
convince her that they're really after Adam and

798
00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:55.880
Bill. You gotta give us answers
to some of these questions. Okay,

799
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.559
Well, you're gonna have to let
us know because we have to be comfortable

800
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:05.800
with you to move on to Adam
and to building. Right, mkay.

801
00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:13.119
No one likes a mumbler, Katie. Investigators wanted Katie to take a voice

802
00:58:13.159 --> 00:58:15.320
stress test, and she said that
she was willing, but she had to

803
00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:20.760
leave here. They are talking about
that, will you can you do this

804
00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:22.039
for me? Is there any chance
I'd get you to do it? Like

805
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:25.800
right now? Yeah? No,
I don't think right now? Why what

806
00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:30.079
is more important than what we're talking
about? Well, I think I've I've

807
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:35.440
told you a lot and now like
it's coming back on me, like everything's

808
00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:39.840
coming back on me. I have
has who has the got other guys?

809
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:50.800
Okay, Well, I think you
can appreciate, like what position I'm in,

810
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:55.320
Okay, And I'm nervous and I'm
scared, and I'm supposed to be

811
00:58:55.320 --> 00:59:00.280
somewhere at four o'clock or were supposed
to be afore, I sup to the

812
00:59:00.320 --> 00:59:04.079
friends. Well, I was supposed
to be at like a family Christmas event,

813
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:07.760
okay, and then I'm supposed to
be supposed to be my own family

814
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:14.559
at six Okay. Well, I
so you're telling me you won't do it

815
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:16.239
now or is it? Will you
come back and do it? Yeah,

816
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:20.960
I'll come back, but tomorrow I
don't come back. I don't know when

817
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:23.559
I'm trying to get to the bottom
of this party and get get you out

818
00:59:23.559 --> 00:59:25.800
of the way. I know,
you know what I mean. You're not

819
00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:30.000
helping me right now. I'm trying
to and I I feel like I'm being

820
00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:34.440
like put under a microscope and wind
it a well, you have a lot

821
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:37.199
of information and that's what we needbody, you know, but I feel like

822
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:43.239
nothing is being helpful and it's just
like coming back on me. Did I

823
00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:45.239
say it was coming back on you? I know, but I feel like

824
00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:50.639
it is. And I don't like
that. Okay. No one likes a

825
00:59:50.679 --> 00:59:53.719
whiner, cade she does come off
as a really windy I think it's super

826
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:57.960
interesting listening to this though, especially
the the cops are. You know,

827
00:59:57.960 --> 01:00:00.679
they're really trying hard to be like, k hey, we're just trying to

828
01:00:00.679 --> 01:00:04.039
get you to help us because we
need to nail Adam and Bill and you

829
01:00:04.039 --> 01:00:06.880
know, you just that that's all
we're trying to do here. And when

830
01:00:06.880 --> 01:00:09.320
she was read her Miranda right,
she should have asked for an attorney and

831
01:00:09.599 --> 01:00:14.079
probably shut it down. Yes,
So last clip I want to play of

832
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:16.880
this interrogation. This is a really
interesting moment when they're talking about the murder

833
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:22.280
weapon the culture scene and Katie makes
a very odd observation. It is possible

834
01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:28.880
that somebody planted that because I can
tell you right now and the FBI studies

835
01:00:28.880 --> 01:00:31.599
and everything that we went back on, guys don't hang out in the murder

836
01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:45.320
weapon because that's why they get caught. They they say it's the lady's weapon.

837
01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:52.679
Yeah, so I know it's very
faint there, but she says,

838
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:57.159
guys also don't use poison. They
say it's a lady's weapon. It was

839
01:00:57.199 --> 01:01:00.239
funny because I was gonna mention that, Yeah, it's a really strange thing

840
01:01:00.320 --> 01:01:04.480
to say if you're in Katie's position
right there. But what motive would Katie

841
01:01:04.519 --> 01:01:08.119
possibly have? Well, that is
a great thing that we should discuss in

842
01:01:08.199 --> 01:01:15.400
part to this. Sorry, I
know, I know it's a little bit

843
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:19.119
of a Cliffhanger. We're starting to
get somewhere on the case. But yeah,

844
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:22.360
we're gonna have to wrap up and
talk about it more next time.

845
01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:32.639
Before we wrap up, I have
a little a little thing I want to

846
01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:37.440
share with you. So we've discussed
in the past our theme music. We

847
01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.599
did a little bit of a poll
to our listeners and they all love the

848
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:45.199
very unscientific poll, by the way, so we're not going to change our

849
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:47.880
theme music. But today there was
a new site that popped up. You

850
01:01:47.880 --> 01:01:51.960
know there's all these AI sites like
chat, GPT. Well, a new

851
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:54.199
one popped up the other day that
I was really interested in, and it's

852
01:01:54.199 --> 01:02:00.239
a AI music generation thing and I
was like, this is pretty crazy.

853
01:02:00.599 --> 01:02:04.760
I think it was called udo udio
dot com. And so the first thing

854
01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:07.960
I did, of course, is
I said, make me a love Mary

855
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:10.519
Kill theme song. Yeah, and
so I have three little theme songs I

856
01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:13.719
want to share with you. What
it does is I get to pick one

857
01:02:13.719 --> 01:02:15.719
and then we can have the We
could talk about them all, but I

858
01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:19.519
think we should still stick with what
we have. But what it does is

859
01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:22.280
it generates like a thirty second little
clip of a song, and if you

860
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:25.119
want, you can then go back
and extend it or whatever. But did

861
01:02:25.159 --> 01:02:29.000
you feed it our theme music?
No? I didn't feed it. All

862
01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:34.039
I said was generate a theme song
for a true crime podcast called Love Mary

863
01:02:34.119 --> 01:02:37.519
Kill with Rich and Tina as the
host. So the first one I'm gonna

864
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:40.320
play is heavy metal. It's gonna
sound a little bit nine inch nails.

865
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:43.519
Ish, you're not gonna like it, but okay, here it is.

866
01:02:43.519 --> 01:03:00.480
Are you ready? Yeah? That's
horrible. Tales of twist finds, right,

867
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:15.119
you know? Rich? The vys
was pretty good, huh. I

868
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:22.840
mean I don't hate it as much
as I should. Pretty chill. I

869
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:28.840
think I just like my name there. That's all a I generated. I

870
01:03:28.840 --> 01:03:30.719
mean, honestly, it blows me
away. It's freaking amazing. Yeah.

871
01:03:30.760 --> 01:03:32.639
I think you're gonna like the next
one a little bit more. It's a

872
01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:37.079
little more pop. I'm more of
a pop girl for sure. Here you

873
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:45.840
go, So listen. Details so
chilling, where the hats collide, the

874
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:57.760
plots, if the glands would kill
you surely know who's in Love Mary now?

875
01:03:57.840 --> 01:04:09.519
The sirs, thestress just that's pretty
good, huh. I mean I

876
01:04:09.519 --> 01:04:13.280
love them. That's totally like my
my yeah from back in the day.

877
01:04:13.400 --> 01:04:15.199
But they didn't say her name.
They didn't say her name. No,

878
01:04:15.880 --> 01:04:18.360
it was good. It was pretty
good. Now I forgot to mention they

879
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:21.679
Also it also gives names to the
songs that creates. So the first one

880
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:28.480
was called Nuptial Reaper, that one
was called Whispers of Guilt, and the

881
01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:31.920
last one I'm gonna play It's shocking, It is shocking. Last one I'm

882
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:40.880
gonna play is my favorite. It's
called Tales Untold Ready all right, Yeah,

883
01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:44.920
here the stories on the cast tailstow
Dog, the Us, the bath

884
01:04:45.239 --> 01:04:48.440
Cats, the clues you won't ignore
you love Mary kelats this door, Julian,

885
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:53.119
Now, don't make the thrill.
We got stories down, still dive

886
01:04:53.199 --> 01:05:02.519
in people with diver scale Mary,
the bit of Bill, Well, I

887
01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:10.400
think it's a dundee. Is that
amazing? I'm like blown away, Like

888
01:05:10.559 --> 01:05:14.480
honestly, it's a little scary,
and so I don't. I guess the

889
01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:21.559
ownership of music is always such an
issue. Who is that unownable? I

890
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:25.280
guess we steal it, is my
question. Oh yeah, we generate it,

891
01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:28.239
we can use it, all right, let's do it. Well,

892
01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:31.239
let us know what you think of
those Those are really I really enjoyed all

893
01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:35.039
of them, really, they're yea
cute and boppy. And that's when I

894
01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:39.079
talk about our theme music. I
think that's what I'm looking for, is

895
01:05:39.119 --> 01:05:42.760
more music and less, you know, just that violent sound. Just my

896
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:46.920
opinion. I was greatly over rolled, and I put my tail between my

897
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:50.599
legs and I still would not voting
for vote for changing our music. I

898
01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:55.079
think that was really fun. Though
people do identify strongly with music, but

899
01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:59.559
I thought those were all really cool. Yeah, very cool and frightening and

900
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:03.360
horrifying. Actually, listeners, you
don't even know if this is the real

901
01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:13.239
Richian Tina right now, or maybe
just maybe AI generated version of ourselves,

902
01:06:14.119 --> 01:06:21.000
complete with mispronunciations, stuttering, and
you never know, because the AI versions

903
01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:26.360
of ourselves would have to be imperfect
because we're very well, No, you're

904
01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:30.000
lovely, I'm a disaster. No, you're lovely. Also, when I

905
01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:32.280
shared that music generation site with our
son, who likes to create music on

906
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:36.639
his own, impressed, he went
into an existential depression, he really did.

907
01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:44.079
I feel bad for everyone. But
you know, young people today trying

908
01:06:44.119 --> 01:06:45.960
to come up with careers, know
who knows what jobs are going to be

909
01:06:46.000 --> 01:06:50.440
available and what aren't. It's it's
been Yeah, I think both are both

910
01:06:50.480 --> 01:06:56.840
our children and are struggling with that. On that happy note, until next

911
01:06:56.920 --> 01:07:00.519
time, don't kill your wait and
eat a chip wich. I'm gonna call

912
01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:04.800
it a chip, which even I
know that sandwich it was really good because

913
01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:09.199
there was zero nutritional value. And
you know I love an empty calorie.

914
01:07:09.239 --> 01:07:13.920
But you hat snack some cheese and
onion chips? Well, I think any

915
01:07:14.159 --> 01:07:16.079
any chip, I don't think the
cheese and onion really added. And I

916
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:19.199
think i'd prefer a plane I would
prefer a plane chip. But yeah,

917
01:07:19.320 --> 01:07:28.079
just some white bread and lots of
butter and some potato chips. Lunch yea.

918
01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:30.880
Thanks, you're introducing kids lunchbox this
week and let us know what you

919
01:07:31.079 --> 01:07:33.559
like. Do that. Okay,
until next time, don't kill your husband,

920
01:07:33.599 --> 01:08:24.119
don't kill your wife. I am
rich. Sorry one more time,

921
01:08:25.119 --> 01:08:38.199
I am rich. Hi, Tina, I am rich, Oh God,

922
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:47.600
Hi, I am rich. We
could just okay, if this next one

923
01:08:47.680 --> 01:08:49.600
we screw up, we just leave
it, okay,