Mary and Bill Yoder - Part 2

WEBVTT

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Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
some days you'll feel like killing your husband,

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and some days you'll feel like killing
your wife. Welcome to love,

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Mary Kill Hey Tina, Hey Rich, How are you? I'm good?

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How are you? I'm doing pretty
good. Really. I think you have

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a little cold. I'm suffering a
little bit, but I'm going to power

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through, all right. I'm looking
forward to part two of I've been on

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the edge of my seat since yesterday
afternoon when we wrapped it up. Yeah,

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hey, you left me on a
cliffhanger. It's an interesting one.

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I want to give a warning before
we start. This episode contains description of

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sexual assault that may be disturbing for
some listeners, so please listen with care.

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So. I don't usually eat before
lunch, but you made something and

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it made the whole house smell really
good. And now I'm hungry. Good

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what you bring. I'm glad you're
hungry. Well, you know how I

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like to if I can to do
some kind of regional tie in for the

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snack. So this case is in
upstate New York. So I thought the

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Buffalo Wings you made like homemade buffalo
wings on Sunday morning. I made homemade

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buffalo wings. Yeah, they look
really good. I haven't tried them yet,

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but they look they smell really good. Yeah, I have to say

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they look pretty amazing if I do
say so myself. Wow, how many

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did did you make? Some?
For? Like the whole family? Yeah,

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there's more downstairs. Just yes,
there are some on the counter.

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You feel guilty when I eat chicken
wings though? Why the just so many

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chickens chickens walking around without their Yeah? Yeah, I know. Well let's

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take a break. Okay, nothing
better than buffalo wings on a Sunday morning.

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You did a great job. They
were delied. Yeah, I thought

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they were really good. I they
were very easy to make too. I

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don't know if I've ever made homemade
wings, but I think I have a

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couple of times. But normally we
just get wings with pizza or Yeah.

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How did you cook them? Well, there's you put like a like baking

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powder and salt and garlic together and
kind of coat them in that and then

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bake it for it in the oven. Yeah. Okay, we have an

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airfier that's not really an airfire.
It's more of a toaster oven airfire but

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delicious. Thank you so much.
The kind of made fun of you for

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phoning it in a couple of episodes
ago. It was feeling it was filling

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the pressure. Yeah, you went
above and beyond both the previous with the

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chip witch too. Okay, Well, if you haven't listened to part one

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of the Merry Yodaer case, you
should go back and do that now.

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But why don't you give a quick
recap. In July of twenty fifteen,

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sixty year old Mary Yoder suddenly suddenly
became very, very ill, and she

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died two days later. Mary was
an awesome lady who worked at the chiropractic

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clinic with her husband, and she
liked to a garden and volunteers. She

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seemed like a really sweet lady.
She and her husband, Bill Yoder had

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been married for thirty eight years,
and for the last twenty seven of those

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years they ran the chiropractic clinic together. The medical examiner eventually determined that the

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cause of Mary's death was a little
known drug called coltisine. Today perfect I

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got okay every time I had to
say it yesterday, I was like,

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uh. At first, it seemed
like it was probably an accidental poisoning,

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but police were looking at Bill Yoder
with suspicion, partly because he was the

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spouse, but also because he had
started a relationship with Mary's sister Kathleen.

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Within weeks of Mary's death, an
anonymous letter arrived pointing the finger at Bill

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and Mary's son, Adam Yoder.
Of the Yoders had three children right there

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was Tammy and Adam and Leanna.
The letter said that Adam had killed his

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mother and the remaining Colchia scene was
staffed in his jeep underneath the driver's seat.

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Investigators brought Adam in and he consented
to a search of his car,

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where they found the Coltia scene write
where the letter writer had said it would

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be, which is a little suspicious. The police felt that whoever wrote the

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letter was trying to frame Adam.
He wouldn't have left the murder weapon in

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his car, and he certainly wouldn't
have let the police search his car if

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he had known it was there.
Also in Adam's car was a receipt for

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the colchi scene purchase, which included
the email address used to make the purchase.

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This allowed investigators to trace what devices
had been used to access that email

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address, which steered them towards Katie
Connolly. Katie was Adam's ex girlfriend,

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and she also worked at the clinic
with Bill and Mary as the receptionist and

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office manager. When the police interviewed
Katie, she admitted to writing the anonymous

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letter. When they confronted her with
the fact that her computer and iPhone had

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been used to access the email through
which the Coltia scene was purchased, she

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did they have an answer for that. She kept telling investigators that she was

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trying to help but couldn't explain why
everything was pointing back to her. So

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far, things don't look good for
Katie in my opinion, they don't.

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They don't look great for Bill either, though. I mean, Bill,

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definitely starting a relationship with your wife's
sister like that quickly after your wife dies

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looks very suspicious. Well, I
don't really see a motive for either one

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of them, unless, like you
said last episode, Bill had started a

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relationship with Mary's sister prior to her
death, Yeah, which I don't really

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think because they seemed pretty happy.
Mary seemed like an awesome lady. Yeah.

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Well, we will learn a lot
more in the next hour, but

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I think it's a good time to
take a step back and learn more about

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Katie Conley and her tumultuous relationship with
Adam Yoder. Caitlin Conley was born in

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April of nineteen ninety three. The
Conley family was well known around the Utica

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area. Katie's father was a former
army major who owned several properties that he

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rented out among other businesses. They
lived in a house in the country on

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several acres of land, where Katie
grew up helping to take care of horses

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and livestock. One of seven girls
in the family, Katie was described as

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smart and driven, and also soft
spoken, shy, and wholesome. She

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was a devout Catholic, and as
a way of giving back, she volunteered

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in her spare time caring for a
disabled elderly person. She did cooking,

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cleaning, and running errands for them. In June of twenty eleven, Adam

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twenty at this time, attended Katie's
graduation party. He didn't know Katie before

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the party. He went with a
mutual friend. He and Katie flirted at

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the party, and Adam followed up
with a Facebook message saying he'd like to

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see her again that message went unanswered
for a while because Katie had gone to

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Germany for a post graduation trip,
so Adam assumed that she wasn't interested.

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He ended up having a brief fling
with a sixteen year old girl that summer.

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Adam was twenty at the time,
which he later said he regretted,

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but eventually Katie did get back to
him, and by the end of the

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summer the two were dating exclusively.
Soon after they started dating, Adam was

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head over heels in love. He
wrote Katie letters about how he had fallen

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in love in such a short time
and that he had never been more quote

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certain, confident, and without any
doubts about anything in his life. In

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another letter, he wrote, quote, I will never be with anyone else

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unquote. He made a list of
mourning reminders that included treating Katie better,

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buying one present for Katie every day, taking note of places Katie wanted to

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visit and things she wanted to do. Never to raise his voice because Katie

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didn't deserve that. No breaking things, no hitting things, and do what

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Katie says always. On the next
page, he wrote, I love Katie

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eighty eight times. Oh boy,
calm down, Adam, But why is

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he saying these things? Well,
I think we'll learn that Adam has some

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issues, he has a temper,
and their relationship really was I've used the

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term tumultuous a couple of times,
and I think that does a good job

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of describing it. I don't like
it. Katie did not seem quite as

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ready to commit early on. Adam
seemed directionless and maybe not ready to be

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an adult, while she was more
goal oriented and driven. He partied quite

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a bit, and he suffered from
anxiety and depression when the two would fight,

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which started happening more and more often
over time. Adam would blame his

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drinking and his use of Adderall his
mood could turn on a dime, from

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sweet and loving to angry and self
loathing. So, if you remember,

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Adam started working at his parents' clinic
part time, and then he brought Katie

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and to also work part time.
But then he wanted to focus on school

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and so he convinced his parents to
hire her as a full time office manager.

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After she took over as the full
time office manager at the chiropractic clinic,

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by all accounts, she was a
model employee. She handled everything for

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the Yoders, that wasn't related to
patient care, including billing, scheduling,

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maintaining the front desk, answering phones, checking patients in and out, doing

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secretarial work, and really handling anything
else that came up. In a recommendation

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letter that Mary Yoder wrote for Katie
in April of twenty fifteen, she said,

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quote, we appreciate how reliable and
attentive she is and her self starter

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attitude. If we ask her to
do something, both myself and doctor William

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know that it will be done promptly
and correctly. And we agree that these

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are not easy qualities to find in
older employees, yet alone in a young

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person. We are not the only
ones who value her presence. The patients

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always tell us that they appreciate her
professional yet personable manner, and that she

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constantly has a smile on her face
and is willing to go above and beyond

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for them. Katie is appropriate and
helpful at every step of the way,

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and if she does not know something, she will take the initiative to find

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out. She sounds like an excellent
employee. She does. After two years

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of dating, Adam and Katie broke
up in August of twenty thirteen. Katie

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had told Adam many times that she
was unhappy in the relationship. They were

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both at the office one day and
Adam finally came out and said, do

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you just want to break up?
Katie said yes, and they were officially

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done. But as we'll see with
Adam and Katie, even when they were

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done, they weren't really done.
They would still message each other, often

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getting into disagreements or long discussions about
their relationship over text, and they would

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eventually end up back together again.
Shortly after breaking up for the first time

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in August of twenty thirteen, they
were still talking regularly and it seemed they

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might be getting back together, But
then Adam discovered that Katie slept with one

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of Adam's best friends, a gym
partner, a guy named Aaron. Even

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with all the reunions and breakups that
were still to come in the course of

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Adam and Katie's relationship, he couldn't
let this go and would bring it up

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frequently when they would fight. I
don't think we ever broke up. No,

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we didn't. It's kind of weird
because I had other relationships that were

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kind of like Adam and Katie.
But yeah, we were both very mature

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by the time we met, I
was twenty three. You were mature twenty

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three. I mean, I don't
know, but you were my lobster.

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At the same time, Katie would
often bring up the sixteen year old that

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Adam had a fling with over the
summer that they met. I don't think

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i'd be able to let that go
either. This always baffled Adam because he

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and Katie hadn't even started dating at
that point, but she brought it up

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regularly, as if he had cheated
on her. I think it's more of

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a sign of his moral character,
Yeah, for sure. Soon after that

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first breakup, Adam started seeing someone
new. A month or so into the

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new relationship, Katie stopped by his
place unannounced. She asked if they could

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talk, and then broke down crying, telling Adam she still wanted to be

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together and that she had been saving
money to buy a house for the two

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of them. It was completely out
of the blue. Adam was like,

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what the hell are you talking about
buying a house for us? He said,

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no, under no circumstances are we
getting back together, and Katie left

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in tears. Sorry to laugh,
but it just reminds me of you know,

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those early twenties when you're just kind
of a mess, And yeah,

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I think today it's probably a lot
harder to end a relationship where I mean,

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we're so ancient that we didn't have
cell phones. And I think if

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you, you know, could text
your ex boyfriend broke up with something,

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you just didn't see him again unless
you ran into him at the store or

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something. Yeah, unless you had
to make that awkward phone call. And

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yeah, today it's just so much
easier, or you see each other on

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social media, and yeah, I
think it's a lot harder to have a

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clean break. A couple of weeks
later, in November twenty thirteen, Adam

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was spending the night at his new
girlfriend's house when he woke up in the

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morning to see a missed call from
Katie in the middle of the night.

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He was a little worried, but
when he tried calling her back, she

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didn't answer. Later that night,
he got a long text from her saying

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that she had driven herself to the
hospital the night before because she had severe

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abdominal pains and bleeding. She told
Adam that she had been pregnant with his

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child, discovered that it was an
atopic pregnancy, and she had to have

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a medically induced miscarriage. Adam texted
back and said he was on his way

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over to support her, however he
could. They had sex that night and

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really and Adam decided he wanted to
be with Katie again, so he went

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to his new girlfriend's house the next
morning and broke up with her. Soon

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after this, the atopic pregnancy turned
into a huge argument between Adam and Katie

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overtext. It started because Katie mentioned
that even if she hadn't lost the baby,

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she probably would have aborted it anyway, because Adam had previously said he

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didn't want children. This set Adam
off. He texted her the things I

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say don't just give you the right
to make decisions that involve me by yourself.

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I'm so torn up and hurt and
confused. Now. I didn't want

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to do that alone, and you
didn't want to be there. Two weeks

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later, you're ready to have kids. You wouldn't have been fucking alone.

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I'm not a piece of shit.
That was all in caps. He said

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that the decision she'd made at the
hospital without him should have been made quote

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by two people either way. He
then asked why she hadn't tried calling him

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more than just that one time.
You were quite clear, I was very

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alone. What does it change you
don't want to be tied to me?

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That was my life. You left
me alone. Fuck you. That officially

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cuts us. I want nothing with
you. You're fucking selfish. I hate

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00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.080
you. The text battle continued to
rage on over the next few days.

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A few months later, in January
of twenty fourteen, Adam and Katie were

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00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.960
somehow still together. Adam was drinking
more and slowly coming to the conclusion that

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00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:37.159
he and Katie were toxic together.
It seemed like they were headed for another

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00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.120
breakup. Maybe you're toxic, Adam. Adam happened to mention something about his

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00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.840
credit card and student loan debt.
Katie said, you're paying too much an

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00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.440
interest. I've got money just sitting
in the bank. Oh boy, how

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00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.919
about I pay off your debts and
then you can repay me when you're able

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00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.679
to at a lower rate. Adam
at first said no, but she said

213
00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:00.799
they could make it all official,
like they could sign a contract and she

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00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.480
would set up a bank account where
Adam could deposit money as he was able,

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00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:07.320
so they could keep track of how
much he had paid back. Eventually,

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00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:11.600
Adam agreed, and she paid off
his debt, which totaled twelve thousand

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00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.279
dollars. Katie had twelve. She's
like twenty, and she has twelve thousand

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00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.840
dollars in the bank. Oh you
go, Katie. A few weeks later,

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00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:22.759
Adam was talking about a jeep wrangler
he had found on Craigslist that he

220
00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.679
wanted to buy but didn't have the
money. Katie offered to add it to

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00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:33.039
his tab and loaned him another three
thousand dollars. However, they never did

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00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.240
sign a contract or open a bank
account for Adam to make payments. Really,

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00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.440
I'm just gonna say, it's really
a bad idea to take a loan

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00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:43.720
out from your girlfriend who you're on
and off again all the time. Yeah,

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00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:48.480
every other decision Adam has made so
far as solid. Adam and Katie

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00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.120
stayed together for a few more months
after that, until August twenty fourteen,

227
00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:56.039
when Adam finally had enough. He
was heading back to school and he hadn't

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00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.240
been happy for a very long time, so he ended it. He was

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00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:03.879
not happy about Adam ending things again. Adam wanted to keep things on good

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00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:07.879
terms, both because they had been
together for a very long time, but

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00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:12.480
also because Katie worked for his parents. They decided they would remain friends and

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00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.679
made plans to meet weekly for tea
is tea euphemism? No, I think

233
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.559
they actually met for tea. That
lasted for a while, but Adam found

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00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.840
it difficult because he still had feelings
for her, so he eventually cut off

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00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:33.840
the weekly meetings. Wow, I
know this relationship is a lot. Well.

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00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.519
I think the fact that Katie loaned
him so much money and she knows

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00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.080
who he is, that makes me
scared for her getting that money back.

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00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.679
Yeah, so he owes Katie fifteen
thousand dollars, correct, I mean fifteen

239
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:48.440
thousand dollars. There's a lot of
money for you and me, and we're

240
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.600
old and to be you know,
twenty twenty one. That's so much.

241
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.639
That is a lot, so much
money. Mean, it had been like

242
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:59.039
her salary for a year. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, for

243
00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:02.919
sure. I hadn't originally included this
in my script, but there was a

244
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:07.039
mention in the m. William Phelps
book about the police speculating that she may

245
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:12.200
have been embezzling from the Yoders because
she really because they were wondering why she

246
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:15.359
had all this money, and they
also found money in her room, I

247
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.559
guess at one time, but I
didn't find any more detail about that,

248
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.440
but I thought that was interesting that
maybe that's why she had all this money,

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00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.000
because she was taking care of everything
for the Yoders and they weren't really

250
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:30.839
that involved in the billying and finances
and everything. So maybe if someone paid

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00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:36.119
in cash, she took some of
that cash could be yeah. In October

252
00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:40.720
of twenty fourteen, soon after the
weekly tea dates ended, Katie sent Adam

253
00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:45.480
a cryptic message saying something about a
dark secret she knew and was thinking about

254
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.240
exposing. Adam tried to get her
to say what she was talking about,

255
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:53.559
but she remained cryptic. Eventually,
after some back and forth, she texted

256
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.440
July twenty sixth, after we went
swimming, I brought you home. I

257
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:03.200
know. He waited a while,
didn't get a response from Katie, so

258
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.839
then Adam said, Katie, if
you have something to say, then say

259
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.680
it, fucking say it, or
don't bring it up again. Still there

260
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:15.799
was no response. Adam texted again, just saying, Katie, I don't

261
00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.160
know what you remember. You were
really quite drunk. Adam could then see

262
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.160
the three dots in their chat,
so he knew that she was typing,

263
00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.559
but no message came for a long
long time, and eventually Adam texted,

264
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:30.799
you're either sending a massive message or
you deleted what you were typing. If

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00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.720
I don't get something soon, I'm
going to bed Again. He waited and

266
00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:40.519
waited no response, so he texted
again, I saw you typing. I've

267
00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:44.200
received nothing. Did you actually send
it? Are you still typing? But

268
00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:48.359
sometimes the three bubbles appear just by
accident. We do that all the time

269
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.240
when we're texting, like, okay, spit it out. But then you

270
00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.880
know, you just accidentally, you
know, typed the letter into that box

271
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.559
randomly. It's a lot. It
can wait, you go to sleep.

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00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:03.880
It's pretty late time for really,
Katie, don't you fucking dare? This

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00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.640
is your last chance to send it. Finish typing and send it. Ten

274
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:11.559
minutes later, now one twenty in
the morning, Katie finally sent the lengthy

275
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:15.720
message that she had apparently been composing. It was a long, detailed story

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00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.720
accusing Adam of raping her the night
of July twenty sixth, twenty fourteen.

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00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:23.200
I don't have the actual text message
that Katie sent, but I can describe

278
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:27.359
what she said in the message.
She said they had been swimming at Katie's

279
00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.599
house with a couple of other people. They had just come from a graduation

280
00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:34.680
party, and Adam had been drinking
heavily, which made Katie mad because Adam

281
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:40.039
had promised to cut back on his
drinking. She drove Adam back to his

282
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:42.119
house and when they got there,
he grabbed her keys and went inside,

283
00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.880
so she followed him in. He
wouldn't tell her where the keys were,

284
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:51.200
and Adam was furious that she wanted
to leave. She said that Adam blocked

285
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.599
her from leaving, then pinned her
down with his hands around her throat.

286
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.160
He said things to her like nobody
will believe you, nobody's going to help

287
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:00.920
you, and nobody's going to to
find you. I'm going to kill you.

288
00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.960
Say goodbye, Katie. I'm going
to kill you, Katie said.

289
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.279
She blacked out from Adam choking her, and when she came to, he

290
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.680
was violently raping her. While she
was crying and telling him to stop,

291
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:18.000
he kept saying things like say goodbye, Katie, goodbye. She said.

292
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.640
He slapped her over and over again
and finally rolled off her and fell asleep.

293
00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.519
She detailed the injuries she said she
received, including where all the bruises

294
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:30.079
were, bite marks, and cuts. Adam sat there, stunned and speechless.

295
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:34.839
After reading Katie's account. Finally,
he texted her, this is infinitely

296
00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.440
worse than I thought it could be. Katie said, yeah, I don't

297
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.000
know. You really don't remember anything
of it. I really don't think you

298
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:47.119
do. I had a slight memory
of the slap, but I couldn't remember

299
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.200
the context, or if you hit
me too, or what. I don't

300
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.599
think we should ever see each other
again. One slap, but not that

301
00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:59.359
I didn't slap you. You did
more than once, pretty hard. Really

302
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.000
do you think that will help?
I don't know what's wrong with you in

303
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.680
your head to not hate me.
Apparently I'm an attempted murderer. Katie,

304
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.160
this is not good news. Please
talk to me just for a bit.

305
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:14.440
I'm sorry I upset you. I
was hoping we could continue this conversation.

306
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:18.480
Let me know the choice is yours. Katie might check myself into suicide watch

307
00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.759
too if it gets bad enough going
to AA tomorrow. If you still want

308
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.440
to see me, you can see
me. Please text me back so I

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00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.960
know you're okay, Katie. Three
hours later, at four oh seven am,

310
00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:34.039
I don't know what I'm going to
do, Adam. They talked a

311
00:21:34.039 --> 00:21:37.640
couple of times after that, and
it ended up being contentious, with Katie

312
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.880
hanging up on Adam, so he
stopped communicating with her. As he thought

313
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:47.920
about the day in question and remembered
more details, he started doubting Katie's story.

314
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:51.839
He remembered waking up the next morning
next to Katie with a terrible hangover.

315
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:55.400
There were a bunch of other people
at his house, and he remembered

316
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:57.559
going back to Katie's the next day
and the two of them having sex.

317
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:03.200
She hadn't seemed up, said or
anything. He also didn't remember seeing any

318
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:07.039
sign of the injuries or bruises that
she claimed to have. Did she have

319
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:12.359
any photo evidence? She did send
photos later of the injuries. Yeah,

320
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:18.599
okay. Katie called the Sheriff's office
on November first and told the reporting officer

321
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.480
that she wanted to pursue criminal charges
against Adam. The detective suggested they do

322
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:27.000
what's called a controlled call, where
Katie would call Adam from the Sheriff's office.

323
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:30.920
They would record the call, and
she would try to get him to

324
00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.359
talk about the incident. The call
didn't go as planned, though Adam didn't

325
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.599
admit to anything and told her that
he had come to the conclusion that she

326
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.400
was fabricating the story. Katie ended
up hanging up on him. A couple

327
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:47.480
of weeks later, Katie texted Adam
saying, can I call you real quick?

328
00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:51.319
I'm in a bad spot. I
need this rather talk to you about

329
00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:56.400
July than the police. Shortly after
that call, Katie called the Sheriff's office

330
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.440
and retracted her rape allegation, and
no charges were filed. After this,

331
00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:06.359
Adam and Katie remained in contact with
each other through text and meeting up occasionally,

332
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:11.640
but in Adam's mind, the relationship
was over for good. I'm exhausted

333
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.640
by these two. I know me
too, Okay, can you tell us

334
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.200
the timeline real quick, like this
is in twenty fourteen? And when was

335
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:22.759
Mary murdered or the summer of twenty
fifteen, so about a year after this

336
00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:27.799
alleged incident took place? Okay.
When we were talking about Mary's illness,

337
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:33.880
we mentioned that Adam had gotten sick
a few months earlier with very similar symptoms.

338
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.960
This happened in April of twenty fifteen. Adam and Katy were broken up,

339
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:41.079
but they were talking regularly. Adam
mentioned to her that he was cramming

340
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:47.200
for final exams and calculus and other
math and science classes, but he was

341
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:51.480
having trouble focusing. The two met
for lunch in mid April, and Katie

342
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:56.599
gave him a bottle with a supplement
called Alpha brain. The makers of Elfha

343
00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:02.400
brain claim that it helps with memory, focus and processing speed. She told

344
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:07.119
him that she'd been taking it and
it really helped her. Adam didn't seem

345
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.799
too enthused about the pills, but
he took the bottle with him when their

346
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.039
lunch ended. After that, Katie
started texting Adam again, asking if he

347
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.720
had taken the supplements. She encouraged
him, saying things like all about that

348
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.319
A plus life. Finally, he
took one of the pills, but he

349
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.880
didn't really notice any effect. She
kept texting him, saying that he should

350
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.839
give it another chance, so he
took another pill, this time. Within

351
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.720
an hour of taking the pill,
he started feeling sick to his stomach and

352
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:40.039
began vomiting. Later, he asked
his dad to take him to urgent care,

353
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:44.799
where they said there was a stomach
bug going around and they prescribed him

354
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.559
some meds. He felt better initially
but later that day took a turn for

355
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.440
the worse. His symptoms were similar
to those his mom would develop a few

356
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:59.640
months later, gastrointestinal distress, stomach
pain, diarrhea. The next morning,

357
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.079
he was feeling better, so Bill
took him to the er, where they

358
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:07.880
put him on an IV and gave
him some more medications. He felt a

359
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.359
bit better and eventually went back home
to rest, but it was three to

360
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.400
four weeks before he fell back to
normal. While he was sick, Katie

361
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:18.200
was super supportive, texting him and
offering to help with anything he needed.

362
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:22.440
At the same time, she asked
him a lot of questions about what the

363
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.799
doctors were saying about his illness.
It seemed to Adam like she was fixated

364
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:30.960
on it. At one point,
he jokingly texted her, quote, and

365
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.039
so, what I'm saying is if
you poison me, I'm afraid we can

366
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.759
no longer be friends. She didn't
respond to that. He thought back to

367
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.119
when he had gotten sick and sent
her a follow up text that said quote,

368
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:47.119
and I had taken my second dose
of alpha brain the night before.

369
00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:52.480
Again no response from Katie. After
investigators started zeroing in on Katie, Adam

370
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:57.839
told them about his illness and the
alpha brain supplement. They collected the bottle

371
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.480
of alpha brain from Adam, although
he had told them he was positive he

372
00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:06.839
had taken two pills. In total, there were twenty nine pills remaining in

373
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.799
the thirty pill container. Another report
we read said that he had taken three

374
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.799
pills and there were twenty eight remaining. Either way, the math didn't add

375
00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:19.319
up. Had Katie added a pill
containing Colta scene as a dry run for

376
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:25.039
poisoning Adam's mother? Well, Rich, what's the answer. I guess we're

377
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:26.400
gonna find out. I don't know
if we will find out, but maybe

378
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:32.319
can you explain the pill situation?
There's like thirty pills in the bottle and

379
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:34.880
they think only one of one pill
contained poison. Yeah, I mean,

380
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:40.119
the basic point was that there should
have been one less pill in the container,

381
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.880
so there must have been one added
to the container at some point.

382
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:48.319
So that's the speculation, is that
maybe she added one pill that had the

383
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:51.319
Colti scene in it. But the
thing was, what was the odds of

384
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:53.519
that happening? You know, there's
thirty one pills in the bottle that he

385
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.680
would there was you know, a
one and thirty one chance. Yeah,

386
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:57.519
he took you know, oh if
you put it right at the top.

387
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:02.559
But the thing that I think seems
weird about that is, how would she

388
00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:06.279
create a pill that looked just like
the Alpha brain pills? Right, it

389
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:07.920
would look different, you know,
if it's a capsule. You can break

390
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.240
open a capsule, you know,
because we had said on the last episode,

391
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:15.799
you only need a teeny tiny mount
of the culture scene. Yeah.

392
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.039
Yeah, But even if she did
that, she would have taken one of

393
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:23.319
the alpha brain pills and replaced it
with one that you know, opened it

394
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.279
up and put the Culture scene in
it. So I don't know. The

395
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.200
whole thing seems a little weird to
me, and it's purely speculation because at

396
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:33.359
the end of the day, we
don't know if Adam was poisoned with Culture

397
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.480
scene during this incident or not.
Okay, we'll be back after a break.

398
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:49.240
I want the record to show that
you ate all the wings? Did

399
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:52.839
eat all of them? Uh?
You really? You really did? I

400
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:56.240
really liked them. They're really good. What sauce did you use? I

401
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:02.319
just used some Francs and mixed it
with butter and uh something else, I

402
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:06.119
can't remember what like that Frank's wing
sauce or oh used hot sauce? Yeah,

403
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:11.359
gotcha. In early June of twenty
fifteen, about a month before Mary

404
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:15.920
died, Katie sent Adam a text. All it said was twenty two,

405
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.920
eight hundred and thirty nine dollars and
ninety nine cents. Adam didn't respond right

406
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:23.799
away, and Katie soon sent a
follow up text that just said asap.

407
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:29.880
Eventually, Adam responded saying, quote, are you telling me to come up

408
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.279
with twenty three K this month?
Katie responded saying no, she was just

409
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:37.920
reminding him of the current balance of
the loan that she had given him.

410
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.559
If you recall, she had loaned
him a total of fifteen thousand dollars in

411
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:47.759
early twenty fourteen. Adam texted her
back saying, quote that figure is comically

412
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:49.960
high. I wonder how many things
were added in there that you had said

413
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.680
you didn't want to be paid back
for. You're amazing unquote. Katie texted

414
00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:00.440
back, compound interest. I didn't
do the math, and I don't know

415
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.599
what their interest rate they agreed to, but does seem a little bit high?

416
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:10.440
Yeah, Katie's alone, shark asp. Adam suggested they meet to discuss

417
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:14.440
the loan. Katie said that she
was busy. Adam said, let's just

418
00:29:14.480 --> 00:29:15.920
meet up somewhere for five minutes.
No, no, don't mean up,

419
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.680
he said, quote if you want
to be paid back anything at all,

420
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:23.160
you will make it work today.
Otherwise, feel free to attempt to sue

421
00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:27.440
me, Katie. I have nothing
to lose anymore. Quote. Katie said,

422
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:32.240
it seemed like Adam was trying to
renegotiate their loan arrangement, but Adam

423
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:36.480
said no, he just wanted to
have a brief discussion and quote after that,

424
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:37.960
I will be trying to get you
paid so I can get you out

425
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:41.799
of my life forever. Unquote.
Katie still didn't want to meet, so

426
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:48.079
Adam said, have a meeting.
Get paid. That simple. Because Adam

427
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:49.920
has twenty three thousand dollars, he's
got a payer if they meet up a

428
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.480
person. Okay. The text exchange
devolved into further bickering, with Adam calling

429
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:00.799
Katie despicable and a liar. They
kept next about the loan intermittently, and

430
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.759
eventually they did meet to discuss it. When they met, Katie broke down

431
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:08.519
crying, saying how she was afraid
that Adam would leave and she would never

432
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:14.079
see him again. The loan was
apparently her assurance that Adam would still be

433
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:18.440
in her life as long as he
was indebted to her. By July fourth,

434
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.839
the relationship seemed mostly civil again,
and Adam started reminiscing about their relationship,

435
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.240
saying in a text, quote,
I was just going through a box

436
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.720
of old memories and it was very
difficult. I still don't know what happened.

437
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.200
There was a time when things were
happy, or so it seemed from

438
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:38.960
old letters unquote. Katie replied quote, I can imagine I cleaned through my

439
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:44.319
room last week. It was happy, Adam. But then Adam shifted back

440
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:47.480
to saying he was still right about
the big picture when it came to their

441
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:52.359
relationship, saying their last year together
was miserable. He also brought up once

442
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.119
again that he suspected Katie of sleeping
with his good friend and Jim partner,

443
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.920
and that she had never told them
the truth about it. He still wanted

444
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:03.559
to an apology from her, and
she said she wanted an apology from him

445
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.839
too. Adam replied, quote,
I didn't fuck your friend, but if

446
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.519
in the future I do, I
will call you right away and apologize unquote.

447
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.720
The two met for tea on July
eighth, which was friendly, but

448
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:21.119
after that Adam and Katie didn't speak
until Mary got sick. Around July fifteenth,

449
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:25.240
Adam went to Long Island to spend
time with his sister and niece and

450
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:27.720
nephews, and then on July twentieth, is the date that Mary got sick.

451
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.319
After Mary died, Katie was there
for Adam, supporting him however she

452
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.839
could, and Adam seemed to appreciate
it. After the celebration of life,

453
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.400
Adam and Katy had sex for the
first time in almost a year. The

454
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.480
on again, off again relationship seemed
to be back on after a long pause.

455
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.480
Adam invited Katie to come with him
down to his sister's house in Long

456
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:52.880
Island along with other family members.
On the drive down, Katie wanted to

457
00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:56.240
listen to an audiobook or it might
have been watching a movie. I've seen

458
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.279
two different accounts of this, but
either way, Adam had either the book

459
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.160
or the movie on his laptop,
and so before making the drive, Adam

460
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:09.640
plugged Katie's phone into his laptop to
transfer the book or the movie, and

461
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:14.599
it gave him the option to download
a backup of her iPhone's contents to his

462
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.920
laptop, and he said yes,
which is pretty slimy. I think he

463
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.720
wanted to look through her texts to
confirm his suspicions that she had slept with

464
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:27.680
his friend nearly two years earlier.
Like I mentioned before, it was something

465
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.319
he couldn't let go of. She
must have known that he made the backup.

466
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.000
I don't know if he told her
or if she just found out about

467
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.519
it, because later she texted Adam, can you please delete my iPhone backup?

468
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:42.200
But Adam never did. Oh gosh
o these two are These two are

469
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.400
really a lot, aren't they.
Yes. Katie and Adam continued seeing each

470
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:49.480
other through September, but then they
had a fight while they were at the

471
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.680
chiropractic clinic gathering anything that Mary might
have ingested. Adam felt like Katie was

472
00:32:53.720 --> 00:33:00.200
being unhelpful and he got frustrated and
angry. So that brings us back to

473
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:04.880
late December of twenty fifteen. The
police have discovered the cause of death to

474
00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:08.359
be cold to scene poisoning. They
received the anonymous letter pointing to Adam,

475
00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:14.559
interviewed many people, including Katie Conley, and have started to focus the investigation

476
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:19.319
on her, but Bill and Adam
were still on the shortlist of possible perpetrators.

477
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:22.880
Bill came in to be interviewed on
December twenty third of twenty fifteen.

478
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.400
He stayed for six hours, answered
every question, and turned out over all

479
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:34.000
of his devices without hesitation. One
thing the police were curious to verify was

480
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.160
when the relationship with Mary's sister Kathleen
had begun. Same If it was before

481
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:43.480
Mary's death, that could indicate a
motive. They could see from looking at

482
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:49.039
Bill's email and messaging history that he
and Kathleen had started communicating about ten days

483
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:52.079
after Mary had passed. Ten days, Bill well, they started communicating,

484
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:57.480
they it didn't turn romantic until after
that, oh like twelve days in They

485
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:01.079
confirmed that nothing had been deleted,
which might have contradicted the date their relationship

486
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:06.720
began. Further proof when Bill first
went to Kathleen's house to get together soon

487
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:12.039
after Mary's celebration of life, he
couldn't find her house and texted her asking

488
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:14.920
her to come out to the porch
so she could wave and he could find

489
00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:17.400
her. It was obvious that he
wasn't familiar with where her house was.

490
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:21.639
Really, that's kind of weird because
it's his sister in law. I think

491
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:23.280
they had been there, but I
think if they had gone there previously,

492
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:27.480
it was always like Mary just knew
where she lived, so he never really

493
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:32.639
knew, okay. During the interview, Detective Van Nami told Bill that they

494
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:37.440
were working on getting a search warrant
for the clinic, wanting to see how

495
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:40.719
he would react. Bill responded immediately, quote, you don't need a warrant.

496
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:44.840
I'll give you permission right now to
go in and do whatever you need

497
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.599
to. You want to go there
today, I'll take you myself. And

498
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:52.440
they took him up on that.
Once they were done with all these interviews,

499
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.800
investigators went about gathering more evidence.
They were able to piece together the

500
00:34:55.800 --> 00:35:00.119
timeline of the Colchi scene purchase through
the mister Adam Yoder Night teen ninety email

501
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:06.800
address Gmail account was created in September
of twenty fourteen, nearly a year before

502
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.719
Mary was murdered. On December twenty
second of twenty fourteen, someone purchased a

503
00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:16.519
one hundred and fifty dollars prepaid MasterCard
from a local supermarket which would be used

504
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:20.159
to try to purchase the Colchi scene
and the Cultia scene, if I remember

505
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:24.280
correctly, was just less than two
hundred dollars right correct. On January fifth,

506
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:30.239
twenty fifteen, someone signed into the
mister Adam Yoda nineteen ninety Gmail account

507
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:34.880
and went to the art Chemicals website
and placed an order for one gram of

508
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.039
Colchia scene. The cost of the
order was one hundred and thirty six dollars

509
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:44.119
including shipping. The name listed on
the order was Adam Yoda of Cairo Family

510
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:49.840
Care, slightly different from the actual
name of Chiropractic Family Care, but with

511
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.400
the same address. The person who
processed the order at Art Chemicals, a

512
00:35:53.440 --> 00:35:58.880
woman named Rosa Vargas, checked with
their supplier and found that the price had

513
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:00.920
actually gone up. So she called
the phone number that was included on the

514
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:06.280
top of the order, but got
no answer and no voicemail. She thought

515
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:08.480
maybe the number was wrong, so
she looked up the clinic and found the

516
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:14.079
actual phone number of Bill and Mary's
clinic. She called and a female voice

517
00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:17.400
answered, but didn't say her name. Rosa later said that the voice was

518
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:22.400
soft and sweet and young. Rosa
explained to the woman on the phone about

519
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:27.280
the actual price being higher than expected. The woman on the other end of

520
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:30.239
the line said, no problem.
Rosa said she would have to generate a

521
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:35.480
new order with the updated price of
one hundred and eighty nine dollars including shipping,

522
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.239
and that it would have to be
paid a pool before they could process

523
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:43.079
the order. The woman said no
problem, she would enter the payment information

524
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.920
online. That evening, a new
prepaid Master card was purchased from the same

525
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:52.159
supermarket, this time in the amount
of two hundred dollars. Two days later,

526
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:57.920
Rosa received an email from the mister
Adam Yoda nineteen ninety account saying,

527
00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:00.840
Hi, Rosa, I'm having some
difficut culty with the payment option. The

528
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:06.960
card is MasterCard debit. The email
provided the card number, expiration and security

529
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:09.480
code, which you should never do. Is it possible for you to run

530
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:15.840
the card through manually? Sincerely,
Adam Yoder. Rosa processed the payment and

531
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.960
it went through. The order was
paid for, but art Chemicals still required

532
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:24.440
some paperwork to show that Cairo Family
Care was authorized to purchase the restricted drug.

533
00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:30.960
Rosa emailed Adam and said they needed
a letter of intent explaining what the

534
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:35.679
colt sine would be used for and
a copy of their business license. On

535
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:39.559
January twelfth, an email came from
the mister Adam Yoda nineteen ninety account saying,

536
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:44.239
Hello, Rosa, I am sorry
for the delay. Our fax machine

537
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:50.159
is being serviced. The business tax
identification number is blank and the NYS license

538
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:57.000
number is blank. The letter of
intent colt scene is used for encouraging fatly

539
00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:04.719
haploidism and plan employd induction. It's
used for creating genetically stable in bread plants

540
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:10.400
and allows a faster turnover rate for
research of specific gene expressions. Because coltasine

541
00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:15.519
is so potent and we are a
small private operation, we do not need

542
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:19.760
to order large amounts, nor do
we need to order it often. Please

543
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:25.199
note this phytochemical and or its byproducts
are not tested on humans or animals.

544
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:30.480
We do not resale. We do
not intend for any research or development to

545
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:37.000
be used therapeutically or diagnostically. ROSA
responded saying they needed a signature and the

546
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:40.480
letter of intent had to be on
company letterhead. It couldn't be posted in

547
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.760
the body of an email. Two
days later, the scanned letter of intent

548
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:50.440
arrived at Art Chemicals, signed by
Adam Yoder and by doctor Mary Yoder.

549
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.360
The deal was done and the Colta
sine was delivered to the clinic on February

550
00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:00.880
sixth. There were a few other
pieces of evidence Investigators uncovered. They found

551
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:06.400
DNA on the cardboard packaging that encased
the bottle of colchisceine found in Adam's car.

552
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:10.079
It was a match for Katie,
while none of Adam's DNA was found.

553
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:15.159
The final time they were able to
question Katie, on February fifth of

554
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:20.760
twenty sixteen, investigators pretended they have
video footage of Katie buying the prepaid debit

555
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:24.960
cards at Hannahford's market. They had
checked and the footage had been deleted,

556
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:30.239
but they decided to bluff, so
they put a blank DVD on the table

557
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:32.960
with the label on it to make
it look like it was from hannah Ford's.

558
00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.199
That was enough to get Katie to
admit that she had bought the prepaid

559
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:42.599
credit cards, but she couldn't explain
why she had bought them and how they'd

560
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:46.079
ended up being used for the colchisceine
purchase. She just kept shaking her hat

561
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:50.559
and saying, I don't know.
When pressed, do you think that was

562
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.440
smart police work or unethical police work? Some states you can lie during an

563
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:58.800
interrogation. In some states you can't. Oh really, I believe that's the

564
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:02.960
case. Resting so I yeah,
it does seem shady A little bit.

565
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:08.239
In April of twenty fifteen, on
the front office computer at the chiropractic clinic,

566
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:13.960
which Katie was the primary user of, there were visits to several websites

567
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:19.000
with information about colchisine. In September
of twenty fourteen, there were searches made

568
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:23.559
on the same computer for other poisons, including thallium and arsenic oxide. They

569
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:30.320
learned that the password on the mister
Adam Yoder nineteen ninety Gmail account was Adam

570
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:34.639
is gay, which seemed a little
odd if Adam had set up the account

571
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:40.360
himself. Yeah, a little strange. H that's horrible. By June of

572
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:45.920
twenty sixteen, there were still no
arrests made. Most everyone around town thought

573
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:50.320
that Bill Yoder had killed his wife. Some thought that Bill and Adam conspired

574
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:53.320
to kill Mary together. One theory
was that Bill and Adam were planning to

575
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:57.880
grow a super crop of marijuana,
and that's why they had the colchisceine,

576
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:01.039
because you see, cold chistine can
actually be used to create a mutation when

577
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:07.400
growing marijuana that is said to increase
its potency dramatically. There was talk about

578
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:10.039
Bill having an affair with Mary's sister
and being a big time drug dealer.

579
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:15.039
No one knew that the investigation was
closing in on the young, sweet,

580
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:20.320
and seemingly innocent Caitlin Conley. In
June, a grand jury convened over the

581
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:23.239
course of four days to look at
the evidence. They returned an indictment for

582
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:28.840
second degree murder, one count of
forgery in the second degree, two counts

583
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.639
of falsifying business records in the first
degree, and one count of petit larceny.

584
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.880
Twenty three year old Katie Conley was
arrested. How is it second degree

585
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:42.519
murder? It's a good question.
I'm not sure exactly why they opted for

586
00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:45.400
second degree instead of first degree,
But as we'll see later on, there's

587
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:50.159
also a question of whether she actually
intended to kill Mary or whether she just

588
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.719
intended to make her sick. So
that's a whole other situation that we'll get

589
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:59.559
into as we get into the trials. As the April twenty seventeen trial approached,

590
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:04.480
public opinions seemed to be on Katie's
side. Free Katie Conley yard signs

591
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.480
were popping up all over town.
No one could believe this sweet young woman

592
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:12.719
from a prominent local family would do
something like this. At the same time,

593
00:42:12.800 --> 00:42:16.000
bill Yoder was being openly accused of
killing his wife for financial gain and

594
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:20.800
to be with his wife's sister.
Apparently, starting to date the sister of

595
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:24.360
your wife only weeks after her death
is not a good look. Katie Conley

596
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:30.000
had some surprising allies in her corner. While Bill was dating one of Mary's

597
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:34.159
sisters, Kathleen, three of her
other sisters, Sally, Janine, and

598
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:38.400
Sharon, were openly accusing Bill of
killing their sister. They sat on Katie's

599
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:42.920
side of the courtroom and testified on
behalf of the defense. Well, they're

600
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.239
going to feel silly. Additionally,
Adam's cousin, David King, who Adam

601
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:50.880
had lived with for a time after
his mom's death, came to believe that

602
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:53.920
Adam was responsible. He didn't have
any solid evidence of this. It was

603
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:59.559
just the way Adam behaved in those
weeks and months after Mary's death, and

604
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:05.719
the fact that investigators were convinced that
the relationship between Bill and Kathleen hadn't started

605
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:10.000
until September of twenty fifteen. Katie's
defense found a neighbor of Kathleen's who would

606
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:15.920
testify that she saw Bill and Kathleen
kissing passionately on her front porch. Just

607
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:21.119
a week before Mary's death, the
prosecution laid out their case. Basically,

608
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:24.639
everything pointed back to Katie. She
created the Gmail account used to order the

609
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:29.880
colchissine, She admitted to buying the
prepaid debit card used to buy the col

610
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:34.480
chissine, Her DNA was on the
cold Chissine rapper, and she had lied

611
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.719
to the police several times. Bill
and Adam, on the other hand,

612
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.800
they had been one hundred percent cooperative
and there was nothing to connect them to

613
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:45.920
the cold Chasine purchase. The defense
was pointing the finger directly at Bill To

614
00:43:46.039 --> 00:43:51.480
introduce reasonable doubt, they tried to
paint him as being obsessed with money and

615
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:53.239
wanting to get rid of Mary so
that he could be with her sister,

616
00:43:53.719 --> 00:44:00.119
who apparently happened to be fairly well
off financially. They argued that all all

617
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:04.679
the computer forensics were too intricate and
complicated to absorb, so you had to

618
00:44:04.760 --> 00:44:08.320
doubt what the prosecution was saying about
all that stuff. And also where was

619
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:13.400
the motive? Why would Caitlin Connolly
want to kill her boss who had been

620
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:16.159
nothing but kind to her. William
Yoder was the one who had something to

621
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:20.480
gain by this crime, not Katie. I mean I kind of see that.

622
00:44:21.000 --> 00:44:23.199
Oh yeah, I think it's a
great Yeah. If I was her

623
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:29.519
defense attorney, I would probably take
the same tactic. While Bill was testifying,

624
00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:32.360
talking about his relationship with Mary and
then how he saw the chance with

625
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:37.840
Kathleen to once again find human warmth, companionship, and happiness, the three

626
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:43.719
sisters who were supporting Katie kept breaking
into loud outbursts, causing the judge to

627
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.199
tell them to be quiet several times. At one point, one of the

628
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:50.800
sisters stood up, flipped off Bill
and the judge, and walked out.

629
00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:54.159
She stayed out in the hall for
the remainder of Bill's testimony. When he

630
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:58.360
was done, he walked out into
the hallway, not knowing she was there,

631
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:00.679
and she said something to him like, well, Bill, that was

632
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:06.639
quite a performance. Two cops rushed
over to stop Bill from interacting with her,

633
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:08.920
and then they told the judge what
happened. The judge banned her from

634
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:14.599
the courtroom for the rest of the
trial. The trial lasted about two weeks

635
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:17.440
before going to the jury. After
less than a full day of deliberations,

636
00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:22.079
the jury sent a note to the
judge that they couldn't reach a mutual agreement,

637
00:45:22.840 --> 00:45:25.440
the judge ordered the jury to keep
at it. After another two days

638
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:30.480
of deliberation, they notified the judge
once again that they were deadlocked. There

639
00:45:30.519 --> 00:45:34.239
was no way they were ever going
to reach a unanimous verdict. The judge

640
00:45:34.280 --> 00:45:38.840
had no choice but to declare a
mistrial. Mistrials and hung juries happened way

641
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:43.280
more than I thought they did before
we started this podcast, So it's hard

642
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:46.599
to get twelve people to all agree
on something. The assistant DA, a

643
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:51.639
woman named Stacy Scotty, said,
quote, most of our demise in the

644
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.840
first trial was that there were too
many men on the jury. She Katie

645
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:59.719
would come in with her short skirts
on, no pantyhose and just sit there,

646
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:02.519
backing her eyes at the jury the
whole time. Quote, that's not

647
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.760
fair. You can't say that.
She added that they had heard rumors that

648
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:12.920
someone on the jury had a connection
to the Conley family as well. So

649
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:15.760
all the information that you gave us
during the last two days of hearing this,

650
00:46:16.599 --> 00:46:21.519
that was the information that the jurors
heard. I think pretty much all

651
00:46:21.559 --> 00:46:23.920
of it was allowed in the testimony. I'm trying to think if there was

652
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:30.280
anything that wasn't allowed, but I
think they I think they didn't let Adam

653
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:32.360
talk about his illness in April,
so I think I think that was one

654
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:36.840
thing that they objected to and that
was not allowed in Other than that,

655
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.320
I think most everything. Yeah,
As the prosecution began preparing for a second

656
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:45.639
trial, they began going through all
the computer forensics again, trying to see

657
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:50.000
if there was something else that would
help their case. One day, the

658
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:53.760
assistant DA was talking to Adam Yoder
and Adam remembered that he had a complete

659
00:46:53.840 --> 00:47:00.079
backup of Katie's iPhone from right after
the Celebration of Life when the two had

660
00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:02.679
taken the long drive from Long Island
and Katie had plugged her phone into his

661
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:07.079
laptop. Had Adam not gone back
and ever looked at that information. I

662
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:12.199
think he looked at it to find
out that to confirm that she had slept

663
00:47:12.199 --> 00:47:15.280
with his friend. I don't think
we mentioned that, but I think that

664
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:16.679
was what he wanted to get out
of that bat. So it's kind of

665
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:20.800
ridiculous that he doesn't care about,
you know, the information about his mom

666
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:22.719
being murdered by Katie. Potentially he's
well, I think he may have forgotten

667
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:25.840
about it because it was, you
know, the trial was like at least

668
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:31.679
a year or two after Okay.
The prosecution started waiting through all of that

669
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:36.440
data. They found that Katie had
a habit of taking screenshots all the time

670
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:40.159
when she was online, and that
she had deleted thousands of those files between

671
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:44.679
the time Adam downloaded her iPhone and
the time she had turned over her phone

672
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:49.400
to the police a few months later. There are more than twenty thousand images

673
00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:52.599
to pour through. It took days
of waiting through all this data, but

674
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:57.960
eventually they found a screenshot of an
Internet search that Katie had made for World's

675
00:47:57.960 --> 00:48:02.559
most Dangerous toxins back in December of
twenty fourteen, very shortly before the Colchia

676
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:08.079
scene was ordered. The prosecution's case
was largely the same as the first trial,

677
00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:13.199
with the addition of the forensic evidence
they got from Katie's iPhone backup.

678
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:15.480
In this trial, they did a
better job of laying out the timeline and

679
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:20.239
showing every piece of evidence that pointed
to Katie during the months leading up to

680
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:25.360
Mary's poisoning. Every search for colchisceine
or dangerous toxins, every access of that

681
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:30.599
mister Adam Yoder nineteen ninety Gmail account
could be tied back to one of three

682
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:36.000
devices, Katie's iPhone, the computer
she used at the reception desk of the

683
00:48:36.039 --> 00:48:39.159
clinic, or at the computer at
the Conley home. They were able to

684
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:44.840
pinpoint the times of these Internet searches
and the times when the Gmail account was

685
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:49.360
accessed, and looking at other things
that were done on her iPhone and computer

686
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:54.440
at those times provided additional context to
show that it was clearly Katie using her

687
00:48:54.480 --> 00:49:00.760
devices, not someone else. The
defense hired a new attorney for the second

688
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:05.199
trial, which began in October twenty
seventeen, about five months after the first

689
00:49:05.199 --> 00:49:07.800
trial ended. So Katie was she
in jail this that whole time? No?

690
00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:12.440
I think she was out on bond. Instead of pointing the finger at

691
00:49:12.440 --> 00:49:15.800
Bill, the new attorney attempted to
implicate Adam in his mother's death. In

692
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:21.239
the opening statement, he said,
quote, Adam Yoder was a manipulator.

693
00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:24.440
He used this girl, Katie Connolly. Adam Yoder was a chronic alcoholic,

694
00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:29.119
addicted to adderall who took opiates.
And he was on the hot seat because

695
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:34.000
in July twenty fourteen he raped her. Mary knew about the rape. Katie

696
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:37.239
told that to Detective Van Nami,
but Van Nami, I mean talk about

697
00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:40.719
Alice in Wonderland. They can't see
what is in front of them, Ladies

698
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:45.679
and gentlemen. It was Adam.
It was Adam. And if you read

699
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:49.719
this anonymous letter, which Katie admits
she wrote it, but anonymously because she

700
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:52.440
was scared of him, my God, he beat her. He'll admit that

701
00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:57.400
on the witness stand end quote.
The other key difference in this trial,

702
00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:01.360
the judge allowed the jury to consider
a charge of manslaughter instead of second degree

703
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:07.239
murder. The rationale for this was
that Katie didn't actually intend to kill Mary.

704
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:12.519
Maybe she was just trying to make
her sick. Oh. On day

705
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.039
two of the jury's deliberations, they
sent a note to the judge saying they

706
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:20.840
were deadlocked again. The judge ordered
them to keep trying, and two hours

707
00:50:20.920 --> 00:50:24.480
later they came back with a verdict
guilty of manslaughter in the first degree.

708
00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:30.239
At Katie's sentencing hearing, Bill,
Adam, Leanna, and Tameron all spoke.

709
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:34.239
We're going to play a few clips
from that hearing, starting with Bill

710
00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:39.440
Yoder. It's frightening to think how
little it took to push her into such

711
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:44.400
a horrible hat. She had a
fight with her boyfriend, and so she

712
00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:47.880
murdered his mother to get even.
She killed someone who loved her and treated

713
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:53.000
her with kindness, and she's never
shown any regret or remorse at all.

714
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:59.840
Quite the contrary, anyone that was
president of the trials often saw Katie smiling

715
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:07.000
even while poison experts were describing the
terrible effects of culture scene and witnesses were

716
00:51:07.000 --> 00:51:15.760
talking about Mary's horrible suffering in her
last hours, smiling, And we saw

717
00:51:15.920 --> 00:51:21.440
smirking at various law enforcement agents as
they walked by the defendant's table because she

718
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:25.039
thought she'd gotten away with it.
The pain, is suffering, the murder,

719
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:29.800
none of it seems to bother her. It's like it's all a lark

720
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:37.559
for her, a game of wits. I think of every day. I

721
00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:43.039
often wake up in the middle of
not crying. I loved her so much

722
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:47.039
and I still love her so much. That's so sad Idea, And here's

723
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:52.559
Adam. I want the lies about
my mother and I having a negative relationship

724
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:59.480
to stop. But more importantly,
I want the lies about my parents' relationship

725
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:06.400
to sop. Hands down, my
parents had the best marriage I have ever

726
00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:13.039
had the pleasure of witnessing. My
parents always loved each other unconditionally, as

727
00:52:13.079 --> 00:52:22.440
they did with me. Make no
mistake, I hate the defendant with every

728
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:27.199
blown in my body and every drop
of blood in my veins. I hate

729
00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:35.760
Caitlyn and Calm his Caitlyn and calmly
murdered my mother. But make no mistake,

730
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:37.880
as much as I hate her,
which is more than I ever thought

731
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:45.880
I would be capable of hating anyone, I hate myself infinitely more. I

732
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:51.000
introduced her to my family, I
got her a job with my parents,

733
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:55.960
and if I hadn't done those things, my mother would still be alive.

734
00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:04.599
And I lived with that. I'm
a torture of that truth. There hasn't

735
00:53:04.639 --> 00:53:07.000
been a single day since the first
trial where I haven't suffered from that.

736
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:12.440
And I promise every person in this
courtroom that I will carry that with me

737
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:16.119
for the rest of my life.
Thank you. Oh that's so hard.

738
00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:20.719
Yeah. I thought it was interesting
the clip that I found of that particular

739
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:24.119
part where Adam was speaking. They
showed Katie and her She was like sitting

740
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:30.440
there and she was so her face
was completely blank, like not a single

741
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.119
bit of emotion, no reaction at
all. She was just staring straight ahead,

742
00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:37.360
which I thought was interesting. Wow. Well, Adam, if you're

743
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.800
listening, which I'm I'm pretty sure
you're not. But the best thing you

744
00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:44.679
can do is live an honorable life
and memory of your mother. For sure.

745
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:49.800
Mary's sister Janine King spoke on behalf
of Katie. I am writing to

746
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:54.159
you to plead for mercy and lean
and see as you decide on Katn's sounds.

747
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.480
I didn't know Caitlyn well before my
sister died. I knew of her

748
00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:06.199
mostly through the things my sister said
about her, all the good things.

749
00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:10.039
Caitlin is from a good, supportive
family. I knew her only to be

750
00:54:10.239 --> 00:54:15.199
a good girl of exceptional character.
In her own words, her goals are

751
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:21.360
to finish college, get married,
and to be a mother, hardly the

752
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:27.559
goals of the calculator diabolical monster the
prosecution team has portrayed her to eat.

753
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:34.159
When my sister talked about Caitlin,
it was lovingly and with pie, more

754
00:54:34.280 --> 00:54:38.440
like a mother talks about her own
daughter. This is the bond that existed

755
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:43.320
between them, and those that knew
both of them will tell you the same.

756
00:54:44.360 --> 00:54:46.960
In my heart of hearts, I
don't believe that Calen would ever her

757
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:52.960
marriage. It is my belief that
Caitlyn wants only to live a good,

758
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:58.440
productive life and would never intentionally harm
anyone. I believe that she has been

759
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:02.000
wrongly convicted, and that in this
instance, this is an instance where our

760
00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:07.880
justice system can sailed out of everything
in this case. That that blows me

761
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:13.320
away almost more than anything else.
That three of Mary's sisters are still on

762
00:55:13.400 --> 00:55:15.039
Katie's side. I was just going
to say, were they not listening to

763
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:20.760
the evidence. Finally, here is
a short statement that Katie made at the

764
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:38.760
hearing. With all the squatch the
justice system system, I would like to

765
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:52.639
think my family and friends and strangers
are poor company. That's all. After

766
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:58.079
all the impact statements had been delivered, the judge sentenced Katie to twenty three

767
00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:01.440
years in prison, just below the
maximum of twenty five years. What do

768
00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:07.000
you think of that sentence? I
mean, I don't know. I I

769
00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:12.400
think she was guilty of first degree
murder because it was definitely premeditated. I

770
00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:15.800
know it was planned for a long
time. Yeah, Katie still has many

771
00:56:15.920 --> 00:56:22.440
vocal supporters who argue for her innocence. There's a website free Kaitlinconley dot com

772
00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:25.239
where they make their case. I
want to share some of their arguments for

773
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:30.719
reasonable doubt in this case. First, they point to the electronic computer data,

774
00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:34.679
saying that all of this could have
been altered by someone with computer knowledge.

775
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.760
Investigators could show that something was done
on a certain device, but not

776
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:43.199
who the person was sitting at that
device. They say Adam had access to

777
00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:46.239
all of Katie's devices at various times. Not only that, but Adam could

778
00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:52.400
have used remote access software to log
into her devices. The forensic experts for

779
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:57.159
the prosecution had argued that no one
could have logged into Katie's iPhone, especially

780
00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:00.599
when they weren't present, and that
some of the suspicion activities on Katie's iPhone

781
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:06.800
took place at times when Adam was
confirmed to be elsewhere. We've seen this

782
00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:10.519
argument so many times in cases where
there's forensic computer data. But like,

783
00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:14.039
well, someone else could have logged
into your account, and this just seems

784
00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:17.119
so unlikely in a lot of cases. In most cases, and especially with

785
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:22.599
an iPhone. It's like a computer
you could log in remotely. Theoretically they

786
00:57:22.599 --> 00:57:24.840
could probably detect it if it happened, but with an iPhone, there's no

787
00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:29.239
way to really do that. Like
you could jail break and iPhone, but

788
00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:32.239
to do that, you're actually kind
of destroying the iPhone, so you couldn't

789
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:37.280
really do it. And did Adam
have a lot of computer I mean he

790
00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:40.920
had taken computer classes. I think
we mentioned that that he you know knowledge,

791
00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:44.559
I mean he had some knowledge.
But just because you take some computer

792
00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:47.920
classes doesn't mean you know how to
be a hacker, you know. The

793
00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:53.199
second thing Katie's supporters point to is
that because Bill and Adam voluntarily turned over

794
00:57:53.239 --> 00:57:58.079
their own devices, they might not
have turned over everything. Maybe they had

795
00:57:58.119 --> 00:58:01.559
other devices that had incriminating out evidence
on them. Also, Bill didn't turn

796
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:07.360
over his devices until after Katie had
been arrested, indicating that investigators jumped to

797
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:12.920
the conclusion that Katie was guilty before
reviewing all the evidence. Again, I

798
00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:15.920
think they had plenty of evidence to
look at Katie. Third, because poison

799
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:20.360
was used to kill Mary and no
one was able to establish the means by

800
00:58:20.360 --> 00:58:23.199
which she ingested it. The poison
could have been planted in one of Mary's

801
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:28.679
supplements or in her protein powder,
days or weeks in advance of her taking

802
00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:31.320
it. So just because Katie was
in the office the day that Mary got

803
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:36.760
sick and Bill was at home and
Adam was in Long Island. Doesn't mean

804
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:40.960
that they couldn't have planted the poison. Fourth, because the medical examiner found

805
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:45.199
evidence of colcha scene in Mary's stomach
even after she had been vomiting and had

806
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:51.920
diarrhea for two days clearing out her
system. That indicated that someone may have

807
00:58:51.960 --> 00:58:54.400
given Mary a second dose of the
poison while she was in the hospital.

808
00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:58.920
Katie was at the hospital, but
she never went in to see Mary.

809
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:02.719
Only Bill, Adam Tameran, and
Leanna were by Mary's side during this time.

810
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:07.880
All those are pretty weak arguments,
I agree. They have some other

811
00:59:07.920 --> 00:59:10.760
things. They also point to the
fact that Katie voluntarily spoke to the police

812
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:15.440
several times without a lawyer, the
fact that Bill started a new relationship with

813
00:59:15.480 --> 00:59:20.800
Mary's sister so soon after her death. And they say that Katie passed a

814
00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:24.199
polygraph, which wasn't allowed in court. I did not read anything to confirm

815
00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:29.599
that she passed a polygraph. In
m William Phelps's book, he said that

816
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:34.599
she took a voice stress test and
that she failed it, although investigators lied

817
00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:37.880
to her and told her that she
passed because they wanted to keep her believing

818
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:39.880
that they were on her side.
Do you know what the difference between a

819
00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:45.119
polygraph and this voice stress test is
I guess she must not be hooked up

820
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:49.079
to like the heart rate monitors,
and yeah, I think it's And supposedly

821
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.440
a voice stress test is better at
indicating deception, but I don't know that.

822
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:57.039
The whole world of polygraphs and voice
stress test is a little bit of

823
00:59:57.280 --> 01:00:01.119
murky to me. There are a
few other things that the free Caitlin Connolly

824
01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:05.760
supporters mentioned as well. We'll post
a link to the site and if you'd

825
01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:09.280
like to read the rest you can
and make your own decisions. A couple

826
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:13.599
of other interesting facts that came out
that I wanted to mention. I'm not

827
01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:16.199
sure if these were included in the
second trial or not. But first,

828
01:00:16.199 --> 01:00:22.039
if you remember the ectopic pregnancy claim
that Katie made. This came at a

829
01:00:22.039 --> 01:00:24.760
time when Katie wanted to get back
together with Adam, but Adam had moved

830
01:00:24.800 --> 01:00:30.280
on and started a new relationship.
The prosecution subpoenaed records for every hospital and

831
01:00:30.360 --> 01:00:34.719
clinic in the area, and no
one had a record of Katie Conley coming

832
01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:37.920
in at that time. Second,
if you recall the rape allegation, which

833
01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:43.719
also took place at a time when
Adam was distancing himself from Katie. Katie

834
01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:47.000
had sent him pictures that she claimed
to be of her injuries, but looking

835
01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:51.320
at the metadata for those photos,
it showed that they were taken a year

836
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:54.599
before the alleged rape took place.
I'm not saying that Adam was a good

837
01:00:54.679 --> 01:00:59.480
guy or that he didn't do some
really awful things, but it appears like

838
01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:02.679
there was a p that anytime he
would pull away from Katie, she would

839
01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:07.519
find some way to kind of manipulate
him and bring him back. Well.

840
01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:12.079
I hate The Crazy Ex Girlfriend Defense, which was one of my favorite shows

841
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:15.239
of all time, but it does
kind of seem that Katie was a little

842
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:17.800
bit of a crazy ex girlfriend.
Yeah, we're a lot of a crazy

843
01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:22.880
ex girlfriend. The book by m
William Phelps, we thought we knew you

844
01:01:22.039 --> 01:01:24.559
had a lot of great information in
it, but I will say that it

845
01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:30.559
came across as very biased. After
reading everything, watching the dateline, reading

846
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:34.360
the trial transcripts, and so on, I believe that Katie is guilty beyond

847
01:01:34.360 --> 01:01:37.679
a reasonable doubt. But I think
it's safe to say that Katie's supporters really

848
01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:43.679
don't like Phelps's book. After it
was released, he claims that he's received

849
01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:46.480
several threats and warnings to never step
foot in Utica, New York. Oh

850
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:52.039
Wow. Katie has appealed the verdict. Her attorneys were upset that the judge

851
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:57.159
allowed the jury to consider the lesser
charge of manslaughter, saying, quote,

852
01:01:57.559 --> 01:02:00.480
you can't constructively amend an indictment in
the mids of the trial and change your

853
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:06.880
theory of prosecution. It was sort
of an interesting argument because they had to

854
01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:10.119
make the case that Mary had so
much colchia scene in her system that there

855
01:02:10.199 --> 01:02:15.400
was no way the perpetrator intended anything
less than killing her. They said there

856
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:19.679
was no evidence of anything but an
intent to kill, and juris had twice

857
01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:23.079
rejected Katie's guilt on that charge.
But in March of twenty twenty one,

858
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:28.000
the court denied her appeal, saying
the lower courts had acted properly in both

859
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:31.239
of our trials. She made a
second appeal, which was also denied in

860
01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:37.000
September of twenty twenty one, and
then a third appeal, this time citing

861
01:02:37.039 --> 01:02:42.400
ineffective counsel. Their argument here was
that because Katie and her family had never

862
01:02:42.440 --> 01:02:46.239
had any involvement in the criminal justice
system before, they were overwhelmed by the

863
01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:51.320
process. This caused them to put
their trust in their lawyers, who failed

864
01:02:51.320 --> 01:02:54.639
them. It was another strange argument. Basically, what they're saying is we

865
01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:58.639
hired the wrong people because we had
no idea what we were doing, so

866
01:02:58.800 --> 01:03:02.599
we'd like a do over please.
That appeal was denied in February of twenty

867
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:06.840
twenty four, just a couple months
ago. All right, So I have

868
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:09.199
a few questions for you. One, I think I already know, but

869
01:03:09.199 --> 01:03:14.079
do you think Katie did it?
And Second, do you think the evidence

870
01:03:14.119 --> 01:03:19.079
was enough to convict her beyond a
reasonable doubt? I do The Culture Scene

871
01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:21.880
did I say? I said it
right? The Culture Scene purchased, Like,

872
01:03:22.079 --> 01:03:25.199
what else could she have used that
for? Yeah? Yeah, I

873
01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:30.280
think it's pretty clear that she ordered
it. The fact that she bought fake

874
01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:35.519
email account yeah, and she admitted
to buying the prepaid credit cards, like

875
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:38.519
you know, what was she going
to do with those? And the fact

876
01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:42.960
that her DNA was on the bottle
of Culture Scene and none of Adams was.

877
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:47.000
I think it's pretty convincing. Do
you think the fact that computer forensic

878
01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:52.199
evidence can be confusing makes it harder
to get a conviction when that's the nature

879
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:57.840
of most of the evidence. I
think without that computer forensic information, there

880
01:03:57.880 --> 01:04:01.599
was still plenty of other evidence that
was damning in my opinion. Yeah,

881
01:04:02.119 --> 01:04:05.559
The thing that I have a hard
time with is Mary seems like a really

882
01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:11.079
lovely woman who was amazing to Katie. Yeah, I mean, why would

883
01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:13.639
she want to harm her? Yeah? I think that was That was My

884
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:15.880
other question is what do you think
her motive was? It's really it is

885
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:19.920
really strange. Like I mean,
I think it was either revenge against Adam,

886
01:04:20.199 --> 01:04:24.679
or she wanted to make Adam miserable, or she wanted to frame him

887
01:04:24.679 --> 01:04:27.280
and get him in troubles. I
think it was all about Adam, or

888
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:30.199
she wanted to be there to console
Adam with the loss of his mom.

889
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:32.719
Yeah. I think that's probably a
really good way to think about it,

890
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:36.199
because we have this pattern of her
doing things to try to get him back

891
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:43.840
when he was distancing himself. If
Katie hadn't set the anonymous letter, do

892
01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:46.159
you think that she would have gotten
away with it? I don't think so.

893
01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:51.280
I think they would have found the
information with the prescription, I don't

894
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:57.480
know so. In interviews I've seen
with the district attorney, he has said

895
01:04:57.480 --> 01:05:00.719
that, Yeah, we probably never
would have figured that out if it hadn't

896
01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:02.360
been for the anonymous Well, there
were only a handful of people it could

897
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:05.039
have been. I mean, it
really could have only been Bill, Adam

898
01:05:05.159 --> 01:05:08.840
or Katie. Yeah, but I
think they would have come to the conclusion

899
01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:11.880
that it was an accident. They
probably would have finally said, you know,

900
01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:15.559
we have no idea. Unless they
really delved into, you know,

901
01:05:15.599 --> 01:05:17.840
the computer forensics, then maybe they
would have found it, but it would

902
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:24.920
have been tricky. A one graham
is such a teeny tiny amount. We

903
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:27.480
have a kitchen scale, we weigh
things all the time, but one graham

904
01:05:27.559 --> 01:05:32.000
is It's crazy, that's such a
teeny tiny amount. Yeah. I'm curious

905
01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:36.760
about Mary's sisters. She had five
sisters, and three of them thought that

906
01:05:36.800 --> 01:05:40.639
Bill was guilty. Yeah, three
of them think he's guilty, one is

907
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:44.719
dating Bill, and one I don't
know about. Like, what did Bill

908
01:05:44.800 --> 01:05:48.000
do to make them think that he
was guilty of killing their sister? Or

909
01:05:48.039 --> 01:05:54.960
do you think they were so angry
about Kathleen beginning a relationship with him.

910
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:57.840
I just thought it was so inappropriate. They thought that was I have to

911
01:05:57.880 --> 01:06:00.679
believe that is probably what it's all
about. I really don't know I'm curious

912
01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:04.760
about it as well. They all
three of them appeared on the dateline that

913
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:10.199
I watched, and I just don't
I don't get it, Like they must

914
01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:14.360
have not liked Bill for whatever reason. I think the dating the other sister

915
01:06:14.440 --> 01:06:16.239
probably had something to do with it. I'm sure they had their reasons,

916
01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:19.360
we just don't know what they are. Yeah, there was one point in

917
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:23.079
the trial. I didn't mention this
earlier, but when the defense attorney was

918
01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:28.360
cross examining Bill Yoder, he asked
Bill if he had before he had dated

919
01:06:28.400 --> 01:06:31.079
Mary, if he had actually asked
out one of the other sisters. Oh,

920
01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:35.119
and he said no, not that
he remembered. But I think one

921
01:06:35.119 --> 01:06:40.239
of the sisters must have told the
defense attorney that Bill had wanted to date

922
01:06:40.239 --> 01:06:45.679
a different one of the sisters before
actually dating Mary. Wow, my sister

923
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:49.360
and I dated the same fella.
Oh did you really? Yeah, that

924
01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:54.079
would be really strange. Not at
the same time, I'm guessing, but

925
01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:57.440
still not at the same time,
but it was. It was. It

926
01:06:57.519 --> 01:07:00.760
was a little weird. Yeah,
it worked at the same place, so

927
01:07:00.000 --> 01:07:03.519
a lot of guys would like hit
on both of us. And she's five

928
01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:09.880
years older than I am, so
that was a little strange. He was

929
01:07:09.920 --> 01:07:13.800
a nice guy. One other thing
I was going to mention is that I

930
01:07:14.199 --> 01:07:16.960
talked about in episode one that when
before Bill and Mary got married, Bill

931
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:23.199
said that he wanted it to be
an open marriage. The defense attorney asked

932
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:28.639
him about that at the trial,
and he admitted that he had said that

933
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:30.880
to her, but that he had
agreed to not have an open marriage,

934
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:34.760
and he swore on the stand that
he has always been faithful to Mary,

935
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:40.199
that he never had any relationships and
no one has ever lied on the witness

936
01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:45.440
stand before. Take it for what
it's worth. Yeah, Well, rest

937
01:07:45.480 --> 01:07:49.440
in peace, Mary Yoder, and
best wishes to Bill, Adam, Leanna,

938
01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:53.159
and Tameron in dealing with her loss. I haven't been able to find

939
01:07:53.199 --> 01:07:57.679
anything out about what's happened to any
of them since Mary's death or since this

940
01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:02.119
case took place, but you know, so obviously Adam has definitely had problems,

941
01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:05.320
did some really bad things. Not
a good guy, but I hope

942
01:08:05.320 --> 01:08:10.280
that he's, you know, dealing
with it and getting help. Men in

943
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:15.280
their early twenties, like lateeens and
early twenties are among the most unstable creatures

944
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:19.000
in the world for sure, and
a lot you can come back from it.

945
01:08:19.119 --> 01:08:24.640
Yeah, any of the young men
listening out there, there is hope.

946
01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:29.279
Keep trying, don't give up,
because you know, our biggest demographic

947
01:08:29.439 --> 01:08:35.680
is males seventeen to twenty four.
I'm not sure mail seventeen to twenty four

948
01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:41.359
has ever listened to our podcast.
Your son, our son accidentally listened once?

949
01:08:41.399 --> 01:08:50.760
I think you. We have been
a little bit remiss in mentioning our

950
01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:57.560
donation or with our March revenues.
If you're a regular listener, you know

951
01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:00.960
that we donate at least twenty five
percent of our revenues from ADS and from

952
01:09:01.239 --> 01:09:05.880
our patron program every month to a
different cause. And we say this not

953
01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:09.760
to pat ourselves on the back,
but really just to say thanks to all

954
01:09:09.760 --> 01:09:13.680
of you, because by listening,
by listening to ads, by supporting us

955
01:09:13.720 --> 01:09:16.159
on Patreon, you are what allows
us to be able to do this.

956
01:09:16.239 --> 01:09:20.560
So we wanted to mention our donation
for our March revenues. Oh, we

957
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:25.920
donated one hundred and seventy five dollars
to the House of Ruth. House of

958
01:09:26.000 --> 01:09:30.800
Ruth empowers women, children and families
to rebuild their lives and heal from trauma,

959
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:35.039
abuse, and homelessness. Their services
include enriched housing for families and single

960
01:09:35.079 --> 01:09:41.199
women, trauma informed child development,
and free counseling to anyone, regardless of

961
01:09:41.239 --> 01:09:45.760
gender, who is a survivor of
trauma and abuse. It's a great organization

962
01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:50.520
and we are very proud to donate
to them and thankful to you. It's

963
01:09:50.560 --> 01:09:55.640
not something we take lately. Yeah, for sure. Okay, So to

964
01:09:55.720 --> 01:09:59.520
circle back to the Wings. They
were really good, but you want to

965
01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:04.239
talk. Did you copy a recipe
or did you just wig? It's really

966
01:10:04.720 --> 01:10:08.760
that was good And I didn't even
I don't think you actually intended that.

967
01:10:09.079 --> 01:10:12.399
I didn't. It just popped out
very nice. I did find a recipe

968
01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:14.840
online. Yes, it we'll post
that. We will post it. It

969
01:10:14.880 --> 01:10:17.680
was very simple and very easy.
But yeah, we did go many years

970
01:10:17.720 --> 01:10:21.880
ago. We went to Buffalo and
we went to the original Wing place.

971
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:26.359
We did place called the Anchor Bar
in Buffalo, New York. Yeah,

972
01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:29.840
it was very good, a little
bit touristy, but it was great.

973
01:10:30.199 --> 01:10:31.479
Yeah, they were really good.
But yours were great. I like the

974
01:10:31.479 --> 01:10:36.600
ones you made because they weren't too
saucy. I kind of like the dryness,

975
01:10:36.720 --> 01:10:41.600
like you get kind of the chewiness, and the skin was you know,

976
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:44.880
crispy, and yeah, I think
the secret is baking powder. I

977
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:47.039
guess if you have baking powder on
the outside, it gets a little kind

978
01:10:47.039 --> 01:10:49.560
of crusty on the outside. So
that was a fun trip though. We

979
01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:53.720
went to I think we went to
Niagara. We had dropped our daughter off

980
01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:56.960
in Vermont, that's right. Yeah, yeah, she was going to going

981
01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:01.199
to ballet camp, and then we
drove to Niagara Falls and then we went

982
01:11:01.199 --> 01:11:05.199
to the Anchor Bar. And we
haven't gone on a trip and we need

983
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:09.680
to get out of town. We
do. Yeah, we probably don't mention

984
01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:14.159
this enough, but we are on
Facebook and Instagram and a little bit on

985
01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:16.800
other social medias. But every week
we post as many photos as we can

986
01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:20.880
find that support the case. And
so I'm sure you have got some good

987
01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:23.960
photos. I do have a lot
of great photos. Yeah, so please

988
01:11:24.039 --> 01:11:28.279
check us out on Instagram and you'll
be glad you did, because we post,

989
01:11:29.000 --> 01:11:31.640
like I said, a lot of
relevant photos that help you as you

990
01:11:31.760 --> 01:11:35.520
listen to the episode. And I
should also mention that sometimes I post like

991
01:11:35.640 --> 01:11:41.039
all the photos, so there might
be some spoiler photos. If you're listening,

992
01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:45.560
you might not want to look at
that until you've finished the episode.

993
01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:49.800
Good advice. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us on

994
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:55.199
social media, or send us an
email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com.

995
01:11:55.319 --> 01:12:00.520
Please consider supporting the show on Patreon
dot com slash Love Marykill. We only

996
01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:03.720
have one tier for five dollars a
month for early ad free access and a

997
01:12:03.760 --> 01:12:10.000
monthly bonus episode and if you want
to send us a snack. LMK podcast

998
01:12:10.279 --> 01:12:14.920
po box one one one Dexter,
Michigan four eight one three zero. Well,

999
01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:18.039
thanks again for listening and until next
time, well thank you because I

1000
01:12:18.039 --> 01:12:20.439
know you're not feeling well, so
I hope you get to go take a

1001
01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:24.880
nap. I might just do that
until next time. Don't kill your husband

1002
01:12:24.880 --> 01:13:00.479
and don't kill your wife at