Mary and Bill Yoder - Part 2

0:00 Hi, I'm Rich and I'm Tina. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and some days you'll feel like killing your wife. Welcome to love, Mary Kill Hey Tina, Hey Rich, How are you? I'm good? How are you? I'm doing pretty good. Really. I think you have a little cold. I'm suffering a little bit, but I'm going to power through, all right. I'm looking forward to part two of I've been on the edge of my seat since yesterday afternoon when we wrapped it up. Yeah, hey, you left me on a cliffhanger. It's an interesting one.

0:44 I want to give a warning before we start. This episode contains description of sexual assault that may be disturbing for some listeners, so please listen with care. So. I don't usually eat before lunch, but you made something and it made the whole house smell really good. And now I'm hungry. Good what you bring. I'm glad you're hungry. Well, you know how I like to if I can to do some kind of regional tie in for the snack. So this case is in upstate New York. So I thought the Buffalo Wings you made like homemade buffalo wings on Sunday morning. I made homemade buffalo wings. Yeah, they look really good. I haven't tried them yet, but they look they smell really good. Yeah, I have to say they look pretty amazing if I do say so myself. Wow, how many did did you make? Some? For? Like the whole family? Yeah, there's more downstairs. Just yes, there are some on the counter.

1:34 You feel guilty when I eat chicken wings though? Why the just so many chickens chickens walking around without their Yeah? Yeah, I know. Well let's take a break. Okay, nothing better than buffalo wings on a Sunday morning. You did a great job. They were delied. Yeah, I thought they were really good. I they were very easy to make too. I don't know if I've ever made homemade wings, but I think I have a couple of times. But normally we just get wings with pizza or Yeah. How did you cook them? Well, there's you put like a like baking powder and salt and garlic together and kind of coat them in that and then bake it for it in the oven. Yeah. Okay, we have an airfier that's not really an airfire. It's more of a toaster oven airfire but delicious. Thank you so much. The kind of made fun of you for phoning it in a couple of episodes ago. It was feeling it was filling the pressure. Yeah, you went above and beyond both the previous with the chip witch too. Okay, Well, if you haven't listened to part one of the Merry Yodaer case, you should go back and do that now.

2:44 But why don't you give a quick recap. In July of twenty fifteen, sixty year old Mary Yoder suddenly suddenly became very, very ill, and she died two days later. Mary was an awesome lady who worked at the chiropractic clinic with her husband, and she liked to a garden and volunteers. She seemed like a really sweet lady. She and her husband, Bill Yoder had been married for thirty eight years, and for the last twenty seven of those years they ran the chiropractic clinic together. The medical examiner eventually determined that the cause of Mary's death was a little known drug called coltisine. Today perfect I got okay every time I had to say it yesterday, I was like, uh. At first, it seemed like it was probably an accidental poisoning, but police were looking at Bill Yoder with suspicion, partly because he was the spouse, but also because he had started a relationship with Mary's sister Kathleen.

3:39 Within weeks of Mary's death, an anonymous letter arrived pointing the finger at Bill and Mary's son, Adam Yoder. Of the Yoders had three children right there was Tammy and Adam and Leanna. The letter said that Adam had killed his mother and the remaining Colchia scene was staffed in his jeep underneath the driver's seat. Investigators brought Adam in and he consented to a search of his car, where they found the Coltia scene write where the letter writer had said it would be, which is a little suspicious. The police felt that whoever wrote the letter was trying to frame Adam. He wouldn't have left the murder weapon in his car, and he certainly wouldn't have let the police search his car if he had known it was there. Also in Adam's car was a receipt for the colchi scene purchase, which included the email address used to make the purchase.

4:30 This allowed investigators to trace what devices had been used to access that email address, which steered them towards Katie Connolly. Katie was Adam's ex girlfriend, and she also worked at the clinic with Bill and Mary as the receptionist and office manager. When the police interviewed Katie, she admitted to writing the anonymous letter. When they confronted her with the fact that her computer and iPhone had been used to access the email through which the Coltia scene was purchased, she did they have an answer for that. She kept telling investigators that she was trying to help but couldn't explain why everything was pointing back to her. So far, things don't look good for Katie in my opinion, they don't.

5:12 They don't look great for Bill either, though. I mean, Bill, definitely starting a relationship with your wife's sister like that quickly after your wife dies looks very suspicious. Well, I don't really see a motive for either one of them, unless, like you said last episode, Bill had started a relationship with Mary's sister prior to her death, Yeah, which I don't really think because they seemed pretty happy. Mary seemed like an awesome lady. Yeah. Well, we will learn a lot more in the next hour, but I think it's a good time to take a step back and learn more about Katie Conley and her tumultuous relationship with Adam Yoder. Caitlin Conley was born in April of nineteen ninety three. The Conley family was well known around the Utica area. Katie's father was a former army major who owned several properties that he rented out among other businesses. They lived in a house in the country on several acres of land, where Katie grew up helping to take care of horses and livestock. One of seven girls in the family, Katie was described as smart and driven, and also soft spoken, shy, and wholesome. She was a devout Catholic, and as a way of giving back, she volunteered in her spare time caring for a disabled elderly person. She did cooking, cleaning, and running errands for them. In June of twenty eleven, Adam twenty at this time, attended Katie's graduation party. He didn't know Katie before the party. He went with a mutual friend. He and Katie flirted at the party, and Adam followed up with a Facebook message saying he'd like to see her again that message went unanswered for a while because Katie had gone to

6:46 Germany for a post graduation trip, so Adam assumed that she wasn't interested. He ended up having a brief fling with a sixteen year old girl that summer. Adam was twenty at the time, which he later said he regretted, but eventually Katie did get back to him, and by the end of the summer the two were dating exclusively. Soon after they started dating, Adam was head over heels in love. He wrote Katie letters about how he had fallen in love in such a short time and that he had never been more quote certain, confident, and without any doubts about anything in his life. In another letter, he wrote, quote, I will never be with anyone else unquote. He made a list of mourning reminders that included treating Katie better, buying one present for Katie every day, taking note of places Katie wanted to visit and things she wanted to do. Never to raise his voice because Katie didn't deserve that. No breaking things, no hitting things, and do what Katie says always. On the next page, he wrote, I love Katie eighty eight times. Oh boy, calm down, Adam, But why is he saying these things? Well, I think we'll learn that Adam has some issues, he has a temper, and their relationship really was I've used the term tumultuous a couple of times, and I think that does a good job of describing it. I don't like it. Katie did not seem quite as ready to commit early on. Adam seemed directionless and maybe not ready to be

8:16 an adult, while she was more goal oriented and driven. He partied quite a bit, and he suffered from anxiety and depression when the two would fight, which started happening more and more often over time. Adam would blame his drinking and his use of Adderall his mood could turn on a dime, from sweet and loving to angry and self loathing. So, if you remember, Adam started working at his parents' clinic part time, and then he brought Katie and to also work part time. But then he wanted to focus on school and so he convinced his parents to hire her as a full time office manager. After she took over as the full time office manager at the chiropractic clinic, by all accounts, she was a model employee. She handled everything for the Yoders, that wasn't related to patient care, including billing, scheduling, maintaining the front desk, answering phones, checking patients in and out, doing secretarial work, and really handling anything else that came up. In a recommendation letter that Mary Yoder wrote for Katie in April of twenty fifteen, she said, quote, we appreciate how reliable and attentive she is and her self starter attitude. If we ask her to do something, both myself and doctor William know that it will be done promptly and correctly. And we agree that these are not easy qualities to find in older employees, yet alone in a young person. We are not the only ones who value her presence. The patients always tell us that they appreciate her professional yet personable manner, and that she constantly has a smile on her face and is willing to go above and beyond

9:48 for them. Katie is appropriate and helpful at every step of the way, and if she does not know something, she will take the initiative to find out. She sounds like an excellent employee. She does. After two years of dating, Adam and Katie broke up in August of twenty thirteen. Katie had told Adam many times that she was unhappy in the relationship. They were both at the office one day and Adam finally came out and said, do you just want to break up? Katie said yes, and they were officially done. But as we'll see with Adam and Katie, even when they were done, they weren't really done. They would still message each other, often getting into disagreements or long discussions about their relationship over text, and they would eventually end up back together again. Shortly after breaking up for the first time in August of twenty thirteen, they were still talking regularly and it seemed they might be getting back together, But then Adam discovered that Katie slept with one of Adam's best friends, a gym partner, a guy named Aaron. Even with all the reunions and breakups that were still to come in the course of Adam and Katie's relationship, he couldn't let this go and would bring it up frequently when they would fight. I don't think we ever broke up. No, we didn't. It's kind of weird because I had other relationships that were kind of like Adam and Katie. But yeah, we were both very mature by the time we met, I was twenty three. You were mature twenty three. I mean, I don't know, but you were my lobster.

11:13 At the same time, Katie would often bring up the sixteen year old that Adam had a fling with over the summer that they met. I don't think i'd be able to let that go either. This always baffled Adam because he and Katie hadn't even started dating at that point, but she brought it up regularly, as if he had cheated on her. I think it's more of a sign of his moral character, Yeah, for sure. Soon after that first breakup, Adam started seeing someone new. A month or so into the new relationship, Katie stopped by his place unannounced. She asked if they could talk, and then broke down crying, telling Adam she still wanted to be together and that she had been saving money to buy a house for the two of them. It was completely out of the blue. Adam was like, what the hell are you talking about buying a house for us? He said, no, under no circumstances are we getting back together, and Katie left in tears. Sorry to laugh, but it just reminds me of you know, those early twenties when you're just kind of a mess, And yeah, I think today it's probably a lot harder to end a relationship where I mean, we're so ancient that we didn't have cell phones. And I think if you, you know, could text your ex boyfriend broke up with something, you just didn't see him again unless you ran into him at the store or something. Yeah, unless you had to make that awkward phone call. And yeah, today it's just so much easier, or you see each other on social media, and yeah, I think it's a lot harder to have a clean break. A couple of weeks later, in November twenty thirteen, Adam was spending the night at his new girlfriend's house when he woke up in the morning to see a missed call from Katie in the middle of the night.

12:43 He was a little worried, but when he tried calling her back, she didn't answer. Later that night, he got a long text from her saying that she had driven herself to the hospital the night before because she had severe abdominal pains and bleeding. She told Adam that she had been pregnant with his child, discovered that it was an atopic pregnancy, and she had to have a medically induced miscarriage. Adam texted back and said he was on his way over to support her, however he could. They had sex that night and really and Adam decided he wanted to be with Katie again, so he went to his new girlfriend's house the next morning and broke up with her. Soon after this, the atopic pregnancy turned into a huge argument between Adam and Katie overtext. It started because Katie mentioned that even if she hadn't lost the baby, she probably would have aborted it anyway, because Adam had previously said he didn't want children. This set Adam off. He texted her the things I say don't just give you the right to make decisions that involve me by yourself.

13:41 I'm so torn up and hurt and confused. Now. I didn't want to do that alone, and you didn't want to be there. Two weeks later, you're ready to have kids. You wouldn't have been fucking alone. I'm not a piece of shit. That was all in caps. He said that the decision she'd made at the hospital without him should have been made quote by two people either way. He then asked why she hadn't tried calling him more than just that one time. You were quite clear, I was very alone. What does it change you don't want to be tied to me? That was my life. You left me alone. Fuck you. That officially cuts us. I want nothing with you. You're fucking selfish. I hate you. The text battle continued to rage on over the next few days.

14:24 A few months later, in January of twenty fourteen, Adam and Katie were somehow still together. Adam was drinking more and slowly coming to the conclusion that he and Katie were toxic together. It seemed like they were headed for another breakup. Maybe you're toxic, Adam. Adam happened to mention something about his credit card and student loan debt. Katie said, you're paying too much an interest. I've got money just sitting in the bank. Oh boy, how about I pay off your debts and then you can repay me when you're able to at a lower rate. Adam at first said no, but she said they could make it all official, like they could sign a contract and she would set up a bank account where Adam could deposit money as he was able, so they could keep track of how much he had paid back. Eventually, Adam agreed, and she paid off his debt, which totaled twelve thousand dollars. Katie had twelve. She's like twenty, and she has twelve thousand dollars in the bank. Oh you go, Katie. A few weeks later, Adam was talking about a jeep wrangler he had found on Craigslist that he wanted to buy but didn't have the money. Katie offered to add it to his tab and loaned him another three thousand dollars. However, they never did sign a contract or open a bank account for Adam to make payments. Really, I'm just gonna say, it's really a bad idea to take a loan out from your girlfriend who you're on and off again all the time. Yeah, every other decision Adam has made so far as solid. Adam and Katie stayed together for a few more months after that, until August twenty fourteen, when Adam finally had enough. He was heading back to school and he hadn't

15:56 been happy for a very long time, so he ended it. He was not happy about Adam ending things again. Adam wanted to keep things on good terms, both because they had been together for a very long time, but also because Katie worked for his parents. They decided they would remain friends and made plans to meet weekly for tea is tea euphemism? No, I think they actually met for tea. That lasted for a while, but Adam found it difficult because he still had feelings for her, so he eventually cut off the weekly meetings. Wow, I know this relationship is a lot. Well. I think the fact that Katie loaned him so much money and she knows who he is, that makes me scared for her getting that money back.

16:41 Yeah, so he owes Katie fifteen thousand dollars, correct, I mean fifteen thousand dollars. There's a lot of money for you and me, and we're old and to be you know, twenty twenty one. That's so much. That is a lot, so much money. Mean, it had been like her salary for a year. Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, for sure. I hadn't originally included this in my script, but there was a mention in the m. William Phelps book about the police speculating that she may have been embezzling from the Yoders because she really because they were wondering why she had all this money, and they also found money in her room, I guess at one time, but I didn't find any more detail about that, but I thought that was interesting that maybe that's why she had all this money, because she was taking care of everything for the Yoders and they weren't really that involved in the billying and finances and everything. So maybe if someone paid in cash, she took some of that cash could be yeah. In October of twenty fourteen, soon after the weekly tea dates ended, Katie sent Adam a cryptic message saying something about a dark secret she knew and was thinking about exposing. Adam tried to get her to say what she was talking about, but she remained cryptic. Eventually, after some back and forth, she texted July twenty sixth, after we went swimming, I brought you home. I know. He waited a while, didn't get a response from Katie, so then Adam said, Katie, if you have something to say, then say it, fucking say it, or don't bring it up again. Still there was no response. Adam texted again, just saying, Katie, I don't

18:15 know what you remember. You were really quite drunk. Adam could then see the three dots in their chat, so he knew that she was typing, but no message came for a long long time, and eventually Adam texted, you're either sending a massive message or you deleted what you were typing. If I don't get something soon, I'm going to bed Again. He waited and waited no response, so he texted again, I saw you typing. I've received nothing. Did you actually send it? Are you still typing? But sometimes the three bubbles appear just by accident. We do that all the time when we're texting, like, okay, spit it out. But then you know, you just accidentally, you know, typed the letter into that box randomly. It's a lot. It can wait, you go to sleep.

18:57 It's pretty late time for really, Katie, don't you fucking dare? This is your last chance to send it. Finish typing and send it. Ten minutes later, now one twenty in the morning, Katie finally sent the lengthy message that she had apparently been composing. It was a long, detailed story accusing Adam of raping her the night of July twenty sixth, twenty fourteen. I don't have the actual text message that Katie sent, but I can describe what she said in the message. She said they had been swimming at Katie's house with a couple of other people. They had just come from a graduation party, and Adam had been drinking heavily, which made Katie mad because Adam had promised to cut back on his drinking. She drove Adam back to his house and when they got there, he grabbed her keys and went inside, so she followed him in. He wouldn't tell her where the keys were, and Adam was furious that she wanted to leave. She said that Adam blocked her from leaving, then pinned her down with his hands around her throat.

19:55 He said things to her like nobody will believe you, nobody's going to help you, and nobody's going to to find you. I'm going to kill you. Say goodbye, Katie. I'm going to kill you, Katie said. She blacked out from Adam choking her, and when she came to, he was violently raping her. While she was crying and telling him to stop, he kept saying things like say goodbye, Katie, goodbye. She said. He slapped her over and over again and finally rolled off her and fell asleep. She detailed the injuries she said she received, including where all the bruises were, bite marks, and cuts. Adam sat there, stunned and speechless. After reading Katie's account. Finally, he texted her, this is infinitely worse than I thought it could be. Katie said, yeah, I don't know. You really don't remember anything of it. I really don't think you do. I had a slight memory of the slap, but I couldn't remember the context, or if you hit me too, or what. I don't think we should ever see each other again. One slap, but not that I didn't slap you. You did more than once, pretty hard. Really do you think that will help? I don't know what's wrong with you in your head to not hate me. Apparently I'm an attempted murderer. Katie, this is not good news. Please talk to me just for a bit.

21:10 I'm sorry I upset you. I was hoping we could continue this conversation. Let me know the choice is yours. Katie might check myself into suicide watch too if it gets bad enough going to AA tomorrow. If you still want to see me, you can see me. Please text me back so I know you're okay, Katie. Three hours later, at four oh seven am, I don't know what I'm going to do, Adam. They talked a couple of times after that, and it ended up being contentious, with Katie hanging up on Adam, so he stopped communicating with her. As he thought about the day in question and remembered more details, he started doubting Katie's story. He remembered waking up the next morning next to Katie with a terrible hangover.

21:52 There were a bunch of other people at his house, and he remembered going back to Katie's the next day and the two of them having sex. She hadn't seemed up, said or anything. He also didn't remember seeing any sign of the injuries or bruises that she claimed to have. Did she have any photo evidence? She did send photos later of the injuries. Yeah, okay. Katie called the Sheriff's office on November first and told the reporting officer that she wanted to pursue criminal charges against Adam. The detective suggested they do what's called a controlled call, where Katie would call Adam from the Sheriff's office. They would record the call, and she would try to get him to talk about the incident. The call didn't go as planned, though Adam didn't admit to anything and told her that he had come to the conclusion that she was fabricating the story. Katie ended up hanging up on him. A couple of weeks later, Katie texted Adam saying, can I call you real quick?

22:47 I'm in a bad spot. I need this rather talk to you about July than the police. Shortly after that call, Katie called the Sheriff's office and retracted her rape allegation, and no charges were filed. After this, Adam and Katie remained in contact with each other through text and meeting up occasionally, but in Adam's mind, the relationship was over for good. I'm exhausted by these two. I know me too, Okay, can you tell us the timeline real quick, like this is in twenty fourteen? And when was Mary murdered or the summer of twenty fifteen, so about a year after this alleged incident took place? Okay. When we were talking about Mary's illness, we mentioned that Adam had gotten sick a few months earlier with very similar symptoms.

23:33 This happened in April of twenty fifteen. Adam and Katy were broken up, but they were talking regularly. Adam mentioned to her that he was cramming for final exams and calculus and other math and science classes, but he was having trouble focusing. The two met for lunch in mid April, and Katie gave him a bottle with a supplement called Alpha brain. The makers of Elfha brain claim that it helps with memory, focus and processing speed. She told him that she'd been taking it and it really helped her. Adam didn't seem too enthused about the pills, but he took the bottle with him when their lunch ended. After that, Katie started texting Adam again, asking if he had taken the supplements. She encouraged him, saying things like all about that A plus life. Finally, he took one of the pills, but he didn't really notice any effect. She kept texting him, saying that he should give it another chance, so he took another pill, this time. Within an hour of taking the pill, he started feeling sick to his stomach and began vomiting. Later, he asked his dad to take him to urgent care, where they said there was a stomach bug going around and they prescribed him some meds. He felt better initially but later that day took a turn for the worse. His symptoms were similar to those his mom would develop a few months later, gastrointestinal distress, stomach pain, diarrhea. The next morning, he was feeling better, so Bill took him to the er, where they put him on an IV and gave him some more medications. He felt a

25:07 bit better and eventually went back home to rest, but it was three to four weeks before he fell back to normal. While he was sick, Katie was super supportive, texting him and offering to help with anything he needed. At the same time, she asked him a lot of questions about what the doctors were saying about his illness. It seemed to Adam like she was fixated on it. At one point, he jokingly texted her, quote, and so, what I'm saying is if you poison me, I'm afraid we can no longer be friends. She didn't respond to that. He thought back to when he had gotten sick and sent her a follow up text that said quote, and I had taken my second dose of alpha brain the night before.

25:47 Again no response from Katie. After investigators started zeroing in on Katie, Adam told them about his illness and the alpha brain supplement. They collected the bottle of alpha brain from Adam, although he had told them he was positive he had taken two pills. In total, there were twenty nine pills remaining in the thirty pill container. Another report we read said that he had taken three pills and there were twenty eight remaining. Either way, the math didn't add up. Had Katie added a pill containing Colta scene as a dry run for poisoning Adam's mother? Well, Rich, what's the answer. I guess we're gonna find out. I don't know if we will find out, but maybe can you explain the pill situation? There's like thirty pills in the bottle and they think only one of one pill contained poison. Yeah, I mean, the basic point was that there should have been one less pill in the container, so there must have been one added to the container at some point.

26:42 So that's the speculation, is that maybe she added one pill that had the Colti scene in it. But the thing was, what was the odds of that happening? You know, there's thirty one pills in the bottle that he would there was you know, a one and thirty one chance. Yeah, he took you know, oh if you put it right at the top. But the thing that I think seems weird about that is, how would she create a pill that looked just like the Alpha brain pills? Right, it would look different, you know, if it's a capsule. You can break open a capsule, you know, because we had said on the last episode, you only need a teeny tiny mount of the culture scene. Yeah. Yeah, But even if she did that, she would have taken one of the alpha brain pills and replaced it with one that you know, opened it up and put the Culture scene in it. So I don't know. The whole thing seems a little weird to me, and it's purely speculation because at the end of the day, we don't know if Adam was poisoned with Culture scene during this incident or not. Okay, we'll be back after a break.

27:45 I want the record to show that you ate all the wings? Did eat all of them? Uh? You really? You really did? I really liked them. They're really good. What sauce did you use? I just used some Francs and mixed it with butter and uh something else, I can't remember what like that Frank's wing sauce or oh used hot sauce? Yeah, gotcha. In early June of twenty fifteen, about a month before Mary died, Katie sent Adam a text. All it said was twenty two, eight hundred and thirty nine dollars and ninety nine cents. Adam didn't respond right away, and Katie soon sent a follow up text that just said asap.

28:25 Eventually, Adam responded saying, quote, are you telling me to come up with twenty three K this month? Katie responded saying no, she was just reminding him of the current balance of the loan that she had given him. If you recall, she had loaned him a total of fifteen thousand dollars in early twenty fourteen. Adam texted her back saying, quote that figure is comically high. I wonder how many things were added in there that you had said you didn't want to be paid back for. You're amazing unquote. Katie texted back, compound interest. I didn't do the math, and I don't know what their interest rate they agreed to, but does seem a little bit high? Yeah, Katie's alone, shark asp. Adam suggested they meet to discuss the loan. Katie said that she was busy. Adam said, let's just meet up somewhere for five minutes. No, no, don't mean up, he said, quote if you want to be paid back anything at all, you will make it work today. Otherwise, feel free to attempt to sue me, Katie. I have nothing to lose anymore. Quote. Katie said, it seemed like Adam was trying to renegotiate their loan arrangement, but Adam said no, he just wanted to have a brief discussion and quote after that, I will be trying to get you paid so I can get you out of my life forever. Unquote. Katie still didn't want to meet, so Adam said, have a meeting. Get paid. That simple. Because Adam has twenty three thousand dollars, he's got a payer if they meet up a person. Okay. The text exchange devolved into further bickering, with Adam calling

29:56 Katie despicable and a liar. They kept next about the loan intermittently, and eventually they did meet to discuss it. When they met, Katie broke down crying, saying how she was afraid that Adam would leave and she would never see him again. The loan was apparently her assurance that Adam would still be in her life as long as he was indebted to her. By July fourth, the relationship seemed mostly civil again, and Adam started reminiscing about their relationship, saying in a text, quote, I was just going through a box of old memories and it was very difficult. I still don't know what happened. There was a time when things were happy, or so it seemed from old letters unquote. Katie replied quote, I can imagine I cleaned through my room last week. It was happy, Adam. But then Adam shifted back to saying he was still right about the big picture when it came to their relationship, saying their last year together was miserable. He also brought up once again that he suspected Katie of sleeping with his good friend and Jim partner, and that she had never told them the truth about it. He still wanted to an apology from her, and she said she wanted an apology from him too. Adam replied, quote, I didn't fuck your friend, but if in the future I do, I will call you right away and apologize unquote.

31:11 The two met for tea on July eighth, which was friendly, but after that Adam and Katie didn't speak until Mary got sick. Around July fifteenth, Adam went to Long Island to spend time with his sister and niece and nephews, and then on July twentieth, is the date that Mary got sick. After Mary died, Katie was there for Adam, supporting him however she could, and Adam seemed to appreciate it. After the celebration of life, Adam and Katy had sex for the first time in almost a year. The on again, off again relationship seemed to be back on after a long pause. Adam invited Katie to come with him down to his sister's house in Long Island along with other family members. On the drive down, Katie wanted to listen to an audiobook or it might have been watching a movie. I've seen two different accounts of this, but either way, Adam had either the book or the movie on his laptop, and so before making the drive, Adam plugged Katie's phone into his laptop to transfer the book or the movie, and it gave him the option to download a backup of her iPhone's contents to his laptop, and he said yes, which is pretty slimy. I think he wanted to look through her texts to confirm his suspicions that she had slept with his friend nearly two years earlier. Like I mentioned before, it was something he couldn't let go of. She must have known that he made the backup.

32:30 I don't know if he told her or if she just found out about it, because later she texted Adam, can you please delete my iPhone backup? But Adam never did. Oh gosh o these two are These two are really a lot, aren't they. Yes. Katie and Adam continued seeing each other through September, but then they had a fight while they were at the chiropractic clinic gathering anything that Mary might have ingested. Adam felt like Katie was being unhelpful and he got frustrated and angry. So that brings us back to late December of twenty fifteen. The police have discovered the cause of death to be cold to scene poisoning. They received the anonymous letter pointing to Adam, interviewed many people, including Katie Conley, and have started to focus the investigation on her, but Bill and Adam were still on the shortlist of possible perpetrators.

33:20 Bill came in to be interviewed on December twenty third of twenty fifteen. He stayed for six hours, answered every question, and turned out over all of his devices without hesitation. One thing the police were curious to verify was when the relationship with Mary's sister Kathleen had begun. Same If it was before Mary's death, that could indicate a motive. They could see from looking at Bill's email and messaging history that he and Kathleen had started communicating about ten days after Mary had passed. Ten days, Bill well, they started communicating, they it didn't turn romantic until after that, oh like twelve days in They confirmed that nothing had been deleted, which might have contradicted the date their relationship began. Further proof when Bill first went to Kathleen's house to get together soon after Mary's celebration of life, he couldn't find her house and texted her asking her to come out to the porch so she could wave and he could find her. It was obvious that he wasn't familiar with where her house was.

34:19 Really, that's kind of weird because it's his sister in law. I think they had been there, but I think if they had gone there previously, it was always like Mary just knew where she lived, so he never really knew, okay. During the interview, Detective Van Nami told Bill that they were working on getting a search warrant for the clinic, wanting to see how he would react. Bill responded immediately, quote, you don't need a warrant. I'll give you permission right now to go in and do whatever you need to. You want to go there today, I'll take you myself. And they took him up on that. Once they were done with all these interviews, investigators went about gathering more evidence. They were able to piece together the timeline of the Colchi scene purchase through the mister Adam Yoder Night teen ninety email address Gmail account was created in September of twenty fourteen, nearly a year before Mary was murdered. On December twenty second of twenty fourteen, someone purchased a one hundred and fifty dollars prepaid MasterCard from a local supermarket which would be used to try to purchase the Colchi scene and the Cultia scene, if I remember correctly, was just less than two hundred dollars right correct. On January fifth, twenty fifteen, someone signed into the mister Adam Yoda nineteen ninety Gmail account and went to the art Chemicals website and placed an order for one gram of Colchia scene. The cost of the order was one hundred and thirty six dollars including shipping. The name listed on the order was Adam Yoda of Cairo Family Care, slightly different from the actual name of Chiropractic Family Care, but with

35:49 the same address. The person who processed the order at Art Chemicals, a woman named Rosa Vargas, checked with their supplier and found that the price had actually gone up. So she called the phone number that was included on the top of the order, but got no answer and no voicemail. She thought maybe the number was wrong, so she looked up the clinic and found the actual phone number of Bill and Mary's clinic. She called and a female voice answered, but didn't say her name. Rosa later said that the voice was soft and sweet and young. Rosa explained to the woman on the phone about the actual price being higher than expected. The woman on the other end of the line said, no problem. Rosa said she would have to generate a new order with the updated price of one hundred and eighty nine dollars including shipping, and that it would have to be paid a pool before they could process the order. The woman said no problem, she would enter the payment information online. That evening, a new prepaid Master card was purchased from the same supermarket, this time in the amount of two hundred dollars. Two days later, Rosa received an email from the mister Adam Yoda nineteen ninety account saying, Hi, Rosa, I'm having some difficut culty with the payment option. The card is MasterCard debit. The email provided the card number, expiration and security code, which you should never do. Is it possible for you to run the card through manually? Sincerely, Adam Yoder. Rosa processed the payment and it went through. The order was paid for, but art Chemicals still required

37:19 some paperwork to show that Cairo Family Care was authorized to purchase the restricted drug. Rosa emailed Adam and said they needed a letter of intent explaining what the colt sine would be used for and a copy of their business license. On January twelfth, an email came from the mister Adam Yoda nineteen ninety account saying, Hello, Rosa, I am sorry for the delay. Our fax machine is being serviced. The business tax identification number is blank and the NYS license number is blank. The letter of intent colt scene is used for encouraging fatly haploidism and plan employd induction. It's used for creating genetically stable in bread plants and allows a faster turnover rate for research of specific gene expressions. Because coltasine is so potent and we are a small private operation, we do not need to order large amounts, nor do we need to order it often. Please note this phytochemical and or its byproducts are not tested on humans or animals.

38:25 We do not resale. We do not intend for any research or development to be used therapeutically or diagnostically. ROSA responded saying they needed a signature and the letter of intent had to be on company letterhead. It couldn't be posted in the body of an email. Two days later, the scanned letter of intent arrived at Art Chemicals, signed by Adam Yoder and by doctor Mary Yoder. The deal was done and the Colta sine was delivered to the clinic on February sixth. There were a few other pieces of evidence Investigators uncovered. They found DNA on the cardboard packaging that encased the bottle of colchisceine found in Adam's car.

39:06 It was a match for Katie, while none of Adam's DNA was found. The final time they were able to question Katie, on February fifth of twenty sixteen, investigators pretended they have video footage of Katie buying the prepaid debit cards at Hannahford's market. They had checked and the footage had been deleted, but they decided to bluff, so they put a blank DVD on the table with the label on it to make it look like it was from hannah Ford's. That was enough to get Katie to admit that she had bought the prepaid credit cards, but she couldn't explain why she had bought them and how they'd ended up being used for the colchisceine purchase. She just kept shaking her hat and saying, I don't know. When pressed, do you think that was smart police work or unethical police work? Some states you can lie during an interrogation. In some states you can't. Oh really, I believe that's the case. Resting so I yeah, it does seem shady A little bit.

40:05 In April of twenty fifteen, on the front office computer at the chiropractic clinic, which Katie was the primary user of, there were visits to several websites with information about colchisine. In September of twenty fourteen, there were searches made on the same computer for other poisons, including thallium and arsenic oxide. They learned that the password on the mister Adam Yoder nineteen ninety Gmail account was Adam is gay, which seemed a little odd if Adam had set up the account himself. Yeah, a little strange. H that's horrible. By June of twenty sixteen, there were still no arrests made. Most everyone around town thought that Bill Yoder had killed his wife. Some thought that Bill and Adam conspired to kill Mary together. One theory was that Bill and Adam were planning to grow a super crop of marijuana, and that's why they had the colchisceine, because you see, cold chistine can actually be used to create a mutation when growing marijuana that is said to increase its potency dramatically. There was talk about Bill having an affair with Mary's sister and being a big time drug dealer.

41:10 No one knew that the investigation was closing in on the young, sweet, and seemingly innocent Caitlin Conley. In June, a grand jury convened over the course of four days to look at the evidence. They returned an indictment for second degree murder, one count of forgery in the second degree, two counts of falsifying business records in the first degree, and one count of petit larceny. Twenty three year old Katie Conley was arrested. How is it second degree murder? It's a good question. I'm not sure exactly why they opted for second degree instead of first degree, But as we'll see later on, there's also a question of whether she actually intended to kill Mary or whether she just intended to make her sick. So that's a whole other situation that we'll get into as we get into the trials. As the April twenty seventeen trial approached, public opinions seemed to be on Katie's side. Free Katie Conley yard signs were popping up all over town. No one could believe this sweet young woman from a prominent local family would do something like this. At the same time, bill Yoder was being openly accused of killing his wife for financial gain and to be with his wife's sister. Apparently, starting to date the sister of your wife only weeks after her death is not a good look. Katie Conley had some surprising allies in her corner. While Bill was dating one of Mary's sisters, Kathleen, three of her other sisters, Sally, Janine, and Sharon, were openly accusing Bill of killing their sister. They sat on Katie's side of the courtroom and testified on behalf of the defense. Well, they're

42:42 going to feel silly. Additionally, Adam's cousin, David King, who Adam had lived with for a time after his mom's death, came to believe that Adam was responsible. He didn't have any solid evidence of this. It was just the way Adam behaved in those weeks and months after Mary's death, and the fact that investigators were convinced that the relationship between Bill and Kathleen hadn't started until September of twenty fifteen. Katie's defense found a neighbor of Kathleen's who would testify that she saw Bill and Kathleen kissing passionately on her front porch. Just a week before Mary's death, the prosecution laid out their case. Basically, everything pointed back to Katie. She created the Gmail account used to order the colchissine, She admitted to buying the prepaid debit card used to buy the col chissine, Her DNA was on the cold Chissine rapper, and she had lied to the police several times. Bill and Adam, on the other hand, they had been one hundred percent cooperative and there was nothing to connect them to the cold Chasine purchase. The defense was pointing the finger directly at Bill To introduce reasonable doubt, they tried to paint him as being obsessed with money and wanting to get rid of Mary so that he could be with her sister, who apparently happened to be fairly well off financially. They argued that all all the computer forensics were too intricate and complicated to absorb, so you had to doubt what the prosecution was saying about all that stuff. And also where was the motive? Why would Caitlin Connolly want to kill her boss who had been

44:13 nothing but kind to her. William Yoder was the one who had something to gain by this crime, not Katie. I mean I kind of see that. Oh yeah, I think it's a great Yeah. If I was her defense attorney, I would probably take the same tactic. While Bill was testifying, talking about his relationship with Mary and then how he saw the chance with Kathleen to once again find human warmth, companionship, and happiness, the three sisters who were supporting Katie kept breaking into loud outbursts, causing the judge to tell them to be quiet several times. At one point, one of the sisters stood up, flipped off Bill and the judge, and walked out. She stayed out in the hall for the remainder of Bill's testimony. When he was done, he walked out into the hallway, not knowing she was there, and she said something to him like, well, Bill, that was quite a performance. Two cops rushed over to stop Bill from interacting with her, and then they told the judge what happened. The judge banned her from the courtroom for the rest of the trial. The trial lasted about two weeks before going to the jury. After less than a full day of deliberations, the jury sent a note to the judge that they couldn't reach a mutual agreement, the judge ordered the jury to keep at it. After another two days of deliberation, they notified the judge once again that they were deadlocked. There was no way they were ever going to reach a unanimous verdict. The judge had no choice but to declare a mistrial. Mistrials and hung juries happened way more than I thought they did before we started this podcast, So it's hard to get twelve people to all agree on something. The assistant DA, a

45:46 woman named Stacy Scotty, said, quote, most of our demise in the first trial was that there were too many men on the jury. She Katie would come in with her short skirts on, no pantyhose and just sit there, backing her eyes at the jury the whole time. Quote, that's not fair. You can't say that. She added that they had heard rumors that someone on the jury had a connection to the Conley family as well. So all the information that you gave us during the last two days of hearing this, that was the information that the jurors heard. I think pretty much all of it was allowed in the testimony. I'm trying to think if there was anything that wasn't allowed, but I think they I think they didn't let Adam talk about his illness in April, so I think I think that was one thing that they objected to and that was not allowed in Other than that, I think most everything. Yeah, As the prosecution began preparing for a second trial, they began going through all the computer forensics again, trying to see if there was something else that would help their case. One day, the assistant DA was talking to Adam Yoder and Adam remembered that he had a complete backup of Katie's iPhone from right after the Celebration of Life when the two had taken the long drive from Long Island and Katie had plugged her phone into his laptop. Had Adam not gone back and ever looked at that information. I think he looked at it to find out that to confirm that she had slept with his friend. I don't think we mentioned that, but I think that was what he wanted to get out of that bat. So it's kind of

47:16 ridiculous that he doesn't care about, you know, the information about his mom being murdered by Katie. Potentially he's well, I think he may have forgotten about it because it was, you know, the trial was like at least a year or two after Okay. The prosecution started waiting through all of that data. They found that Katie had a habit of taking screenshots all the time when she was online, and that she had deleted thousands of those files between the time Adam downloaded her iPhone and the time she had turned over her phone to the police a few months later. There are more than twenty thousand images to pour through. It took days of waiting through all this data, but eventually they found a screenshot of an Internet search that Katie had made for World's most Dangerous toxins back in December of twenty fourteen, very shortly before the Colchia scene was ordered. The prosecution's case was largely the same as the first trial, with the addition of the forensic evidence they got from Katie's iPhone backup.

48:13 In this trial, they did a better job of laying out the timeline and showing every piece of evidence that pointed to Katie during the months leading up to Mary's poisoning. Every search for colchisceine or dangerous toxins, every access of that mister Adam Yoder nineteen ninety Gmail account could be tied back to one of three devices, Katie's iPhone, the computer she used at the reception desk of the clinic, or at the computer at the Conley home. They were able to pinpoint the times of these Internet searches and the times when the Gmail account was accessed, and looking at other things that were done on her iPhone and computer at those times provided additional context to show that it was clearly Katie using her devices, not someone else. The defense hired a new attorney for the second trial, which began in October twenty seventeen, about five months after the first trial ended. So Katie was she in jail this that whole time? No?

49:07 I think she was out on bond. Instead of pointing the finger at Bill, the new attorney attempted to implicate Adam in his mother's death. In the opening statement, he said, quote, Adam Yoder was a manipulator. He used this girl, Katie Connolly. Adam Yoder was a chronic alcoholic, addicted to adderall who took opiates. And he was on the hot seat because in July twenty fourteen he raped her. Mary knew about the rape. Katie told that to Detective Van Nami, but Van Nami, I mean talk about Alice in Wonderland. They can't see what is in front of them, Ladies and gentlemen. It was Adam. It was Adam. And if you read this anonymous letter, which Katie admits she wrote it, but anonymously because she was scared of him, my God, he beat her. He'll admit that on the witness stand end quote. The other key difference in this trial, the judge allowed the jury to consider a charge of manslaughter instead of second degree murder. The rationale for this was that Katie didn't actually intend to kill Mary.

50:07 Maybe she was just trying to make her sick. Oh. On day two of the jury's deliberations, they sent a note to the judge saying they were deadlocked again. The judge ordered them to keep trying, and two hours later they came back with a verdict guilty of manslaughter in the first degree. At Katie's sentencing hearing, Bill, Adam, Leanna, and Tameron all spoke. We're going to play a few clips from that hearing, starting with Bill Yoder. It's frightening to think how little it took to push her into such a horrible hat. She had a fight with her boyfriend, and so she murdered his mother to get even. She killed someone who loved her and treated her with kindness, and she's never shown any regret or remorse at all.

50:54 Quite the contrary, anyone that was president of the trials often saw Katie smiling even while poison experts were describing the terrible effects of culture scene and witnesses were talking about Mary's horrible suffering in her last hours, smiling, And we saw smirking at various law enforcement agents as they walked by the defendant's table because she thought she'd gotten away with it. The pain, is suffering, the murder, none of it seems to bother her. It's like it's all a lark for her, a game of wits. I think of every day. I often wake up in the middle of not crying. I loved her so much and I still love her so much. That's so sad Idea, And here's Adam. I want the lies about my mother and I having a negative relationship to stop. But more importantly, I want the lies about my parents' relationship to sop. Hands down, my parents had the best marriage I have ever had the pleasure of witnessing. My parents always loved each other unconditionally, as they did with me. Make no mistake, I hate the defendant with every blown in my body and every drop of blood in my veins. I hate

52:27 Caitlyn and Calm his Caitlyn and calmly murdered my mother. But make no mistake, as much as I hate her, which is more than I ever thought I would be capable of hating anyone, I hate myself infinitely more. I introduced her to my family, I got her a job with my parents, and if I hadn't done those things, my mother would still be alive. And I lived with that. I'm a torture of that truth. There hasn't been a single day since the first trial where I haven't suffered from that.

53:07 And I promise every person in this courtroom that I will carry that with me for the rest of my life. Thank you. Oh that's so hard. Yeah. I thought it was interesting the clip that I found of that particular part where Adam was speaking. They showed Katie and her She was like sitting there and she was so her face was completely blank, like not a single bit of emotion, no reaction at all. She was just staring straight ahead, which I thought was interesting. Wow. Well, Adam, if you're listening, which I'm I'm pretty sure you're not. But the best thing you can do is live an honorable life and memory of your mother. For sure. Mary's sister Janine King spoke on behalf of Katie. I am writing to you to plead for mercy and lean and see as you decide on Katn's sounds.

53:57 I didn't know Caitlyn well before my sister died. I knew of her mostly through the things my sister said about her, all the good things. Caitlin is from a good, supportive family. I knew her only to be a good girl of exceptional character. In her own words, her goals are to finish college, get married, and to be a mother, hardly the goals of the calculator diabolical monster the prosecution team has portrayed her to eat. When my sister talked about Caitlin, it was lovingly and with pie, more like a mother talks about her own daughter. This is the bond that existed between them, and those that knew both of them will tell you the same.

54:44 In my heart of hearts, I don't believe that Calen would ever her marriage. It is my belief that Caitlyn wants only to live a good, productive life and would never intentionally harm anyone. I believe that she has been wrongly convicted, and that in this instance, this is an instance where our justice system can sailed out of everything in this case. That that blows me away almost more than anything else. That three of Mary's sisters are still on Katie's side. I was just going to say, were they not listening to the evidence. Finally, here is a short statement that Katie made at the hearing. With all the squatch the justice system system, I would like to think my family and friends and strangers are poor company. That's all. After all the impact statements had been delivered, the judge sentenced Katie to twenty three years in prison, just below the maximum of twenty five years. What do you think of that sentence? I mean, I don't know. I I think she was guilty of first degree murder because it was definitely premeditated. I know it was planned for a long time. Yeah, Katie still has many

56:15 vocal supporters who argue for her innocence. There's a website free Kaitlinconley dot com where they make their case. I want to share some of their arguments for reasonable doubt in this case. First, they point to the electronic computer data, saying that all of this could have been altered by someone with computer knowledge. Investigators could show that something was done on a certain device, but not who the person was sitting at that device. They say Adam had access to all of Katie's devices at various times. Not only that, but Adam could have used remote access software to log into her devices. The forensic experts for the prosecution had argued that no one could have logged into Katie's iPhone, especially when they weren't present, and that some of the suspicion activities on Katie's iPhone took place at times when Adam was confirmed to be elsewhere. We've seen this argument so many times in cases where there's forensic computer data. But like, well, someone else could have logged into your account, and this just seems so unlikely in a lot of cases. In most cases, and especially with an iPhone. It's like a computer you could log in remotely. Theoretically they could probably detect it if it happened, but with an iPhone, there's no way to really do that. Like you could jail break and iPhone, but to do that, you're actually kind of destroying the iPhone, so you couldn't really do it. And did Adam have a lot of computer I mean he had taken computer classes. I think we mentioned that that he you know knowledge, I mean he had some knowledge. But just because you take some computer classes doesn't mean you know how to be a hacker, you know. The

57:47 second thing Katie's supporters point to is that because Bill and Adam voluntarily turned over their own devices, they might not have turned over everything. Maybe they had other devices that had incriminating out evidence on them. Also, Bill didn't turn over his devices until after Katie had been arrested, indicating that investigators jumped to the conclusion that Katie was guilty before reviewing all the evidence. Again, I think they had plenty of evidence to look at Katie. Third, because poison was used to kill Mary and no one was able to establish the means by which she ingested it. The poison could have been planted in one of Mary's supplements or in her protein powder, days or weeks in advance of her taking it. So just because Katie was in the office the day that Mary got sick and Bill was at home and Adam was in Long Island. Doesn't mean that they couldn't have planted the poison. Fourth, because the medical examiner found evidence of colcha scene in Mary's stomach even after she had been vomiting and had diarrhea for two days clearing out her system. That indicated that someone may have given Mary a second dose of the poison while she was in the hospital.

58:55 Katie was at the hospital, but she never went in to see Mary. Only Bill, Adam Tameran, and Leanna were by Mary's side during this time. All those are pretty weak arguments, I agree. They have some other things. They also point to the fact that Katie voluntarily spoke to the police several times without a lawyer, the fact that Bill started a new relationship with Mary's sister so soon after her death. And they say that Katie passed a polygraph, which wasn't allowed in court. I did not read anything to confirm that she passed a polygraph. In m William Phelps's book, he said that she took a voice stress test and that she failed it, although investigators lied to her and told her that she passed because they wanted to keep her believing that they were on her side. Do you know what the difference between a polygraph and this voice stress test is I guess she must not be hooked up to like the heart rate monitors, and yeah, I think it's And supposedly a voice stress test is better at indicating deception, but I don't know that.

59:52 The whole world of polygraphs and voice stress test is a little bit of murky to me. There are a few other things that the free Caitlin Connolly supporters mentioned as well. We'll post a link to the site and if you'd like to read the rest you can and make your own decisions. A couple of other interesting facts that came out that I wanted to mention. I'm not sure if these were included in the second trial or not. But first, if you remember the ectopic pregnancy claim that Katie made. This came at a time when Katie wanted to get back together with Adam, but Adam had moved on and started a new relationship. The prosecution subpoenaed records for every hospital and clinic in the area, and no one had a record of Katie Conley coming in at that time. Second, if you recall the rape allegation, which also took place at a time when Adam was distancing himself from Katie. Katie had sent him pictures that she claimed to be of her injuries, but looking at the metadata for those photos, it showed that they were taken a year before the alleged rape took place. I'm not saying that Adam was a good guy or that he didn't do some really awful things, but it appears like there was a p that anytime he would pull away from Katie, she would find some way to kind of manipulate him and bring him back. Well.

1:01:07 I hate The Crazy Ex Girlfriend Defense, which was one of my favorite shows of all time, but it does kind of seem that Katie was a little bit of a crazy ex girlfriend. Yeah, we're a lot of a crazy ex girlfriend. The book by m William Phelps, we thought we knew you had a lot of great information in it, but I will say that it came across as very biased. After reading everything, watching the dateline, reading the trial transcripts, and so on, I believe that Katie is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But I think it's safe to say that Katie's supporters really don't like Phelps's book. After it was released, he claims that he's received several threats and warnings to never step foot in Utica, New York. Oh Wow. Katie has appealed the verdict. Her attorneys were upset that the judge allowed the jury to consider the lesser charge of manslaughter, saying, quote, you can't constructively amend an indictment in the mids of the trial and change your theory of prosecution. It was sort of an interesting argument because they had to make the case that Mary had so much colchia scene in her system that there was no way the perpetrator intended anything less than killing her. They said there was no evidence of anything but an intent to kill, and juris had twice rejected Katie's guilt on that charge. But in March of twenty twenty one, the court denied her appeal, saying the lower courts had acted properly in both of our trials. She made a second appeal, which was also denied in September of twenty twenty one, and then a third appeal, this time citing ineffective counsel. Their argument here was that because Katie and her family had never

1:02:42 had any involvement in the criminal justice system before, they were overwhelmed by the process. This caused them to put their trust in their lawyers, who failed them. It was another strange argument. Basically, what they're saying is we hired the wrong people because we had no idea what we were doing, so we'd like a do over please. That appeal was denied in February of twenty twenty four, just a couple months ago. All right, So I have a few questions for you. One, I think I already know, but do you think Katie did it? And Second, do you think the evidence was enough to convict her beyond a reasonable doubt? I do The Culture Scene did I say? I said it right? The Culture Scene purchased, Like, what else could she have used that for? Yeah? Yeah, I think it's pretty clear that she ordered it. The fact that she bought fake email account yeah, and she admitted to buying the prepaid credit cards, like you know, what was she going to do with those? And the fact that her DNA was on the bottle of Culture Scene and none of Adams was.

1:03:43 I think it's pretty convincing. Do you think the fact that computer forensic evidence can be confusing makes it harder to get a conviction when that's the nature of most of the evidence. I think without that computer forensic information, there was still plenty of other evidence that was damning in my opinion. Yeah, The thing that I have a hard time with is Mary seems like a really lovely woman who was amazing to Katie. Yeah, I mean, why would she want to harm her? Yeah? I think that was That was My other question is what do you think her motive was? It's really it is really strange. Like I mean, I think it was either revenge against Adam, or she wanted to make Adam miserable, or she wanted to frame him and get him in troubles. I think it was all about Adam, or she wanted to be there to console Adam with the loss of his mom.

1:04:30 Yeah. I think that's probably a really good way to think about it, because we have this pattern of her doing things to try to get him back when he was distancing himself. If Katie hadn't set the anonymous letter, do you think that she would have gotten away with it? I don't think so. I think they would have found the information with the prescription, I don't know so. In interviews I've seen with the district attorney, he has said that, Yeah, we probably never would have figured that out if it hadn't been for the anonymous Well, there were only a handful of people it could have been. I mean, it really could have only been Bill, Adam or Katie. Yeah, but I think they would have come to the conclusion that it was an accident. They probably would have finally said, you know, we have no idea. Unless they really delved into, you know, the computer forensics, then maybe they would have found it, but it would have been tricky. A one graham is such a teeny tiny amount. We have a kitchen scale, we weigh things all the time, but one graham is It's crazy, that's such a teeny tiny amount. Yeah. I'm curious about Mary's sisters. She had five sisters, and three of them thought that Bill was guilty. Yeah, three of them think he's guilty, one is dating Bill, and one I don't know about. Like, what did Bill do to make them think that he was guilty of killing their sister? Or do you think they were so angry about Kathleen beginning a relationship with him.

1:05:55 I just thought it was so inappropriate. They thought that was I have to believe that is probably what it's all about. I really don't know I'm curious about it as well. They all three of them appeared on the dateline that I watched, and I just don't I don't get it, Like they must have not liked Bill for whatever reason. I think the dating the other sister probably had something to do with it. I'm sure they had their reasons, we just don't know what they are. Yeah, there was one point in the trial. I didn't mention this earlier, but when the defense attorney was cross examining Bill Yoder, he asked Bill if he had before he had dated Mary, if he had actually asked out one of the other sisters. Oh, and he said no, not that he remembered. But I think one of the sisters must have told the defense attorney that Bill had wanted to date a different one of the sisters before actually dating Mary. Wow, my sister and I dated the same fella. Oh did you really? Yeah, that would be really strange. Not at the same time, I'm guessing, but still not at the same time, but it was. It was. It was a little weird. Yeah, it worked at the same place, so a lot of guys would like hit on both of us. And she's five years older than I am, so that was a little strange. He was a nice guy. One other thing I was going to mention is that I talked about in episode one that when before Bill and Mary got married, Bill said that he wanted it to be an open marriage. The defense attorney asked him about that at the trial, and he admitted that he had said that

1:07:28 to her, but that he had agreed to not have an open marriage, and he swore on the stand that he has always been faithful to Mary, that he never had any relationships and no one has ever lied on the witness stand before. Take it for what it's worth. Yeah, Well, rest in peace, Mary Yoder, and best wishes to Bill, Adam, Leanna, and Tameron in dealing with her loss. I haven't been able to find anything out about what's happened to any of them since Mary's death or since this case took place, but you know, so obviously Adam has definitely had problems, did some really bad things. Not a good guy, but I hope that he's, you know, dealing with it and getting help. Men in their early twenties, like lateeens and early twenties are among the most unstable creatures in the world for sure, and a lot you can come back from it.

1:08:19 Yeah, any of the young men listening out there, there is hope. Keep trying, don't give up, because you know, our biggest demographic is males seventeen to twenty four. I'm not sure mail seventeen to twenty four has ever listened to our podcast. Your son, our son accidentally listened once? I think you. We have been a little bit remiss in mentioning our donation or with our March revenues. If you're a regular listener, you know that we donate at least twenty five percent of our revenues from ADS and from our patron program every month to a different cause. And we say this not to pat ourselves on the back, but really just to say thanks to all of you, because by listening, by listening to ads, by supporting us on Patreon, you are what allows us to be able to do this.

1:09:16 So we wanted to mention our donation for our March revenues. Oh, we donated one hundred and seventy five dollars to the House of Ruth. House of Ruth empowers women, children and families to rebuild their lives and heal from trauma, abuse, and homelessness. Their services include enriched housing for families and single women, trauma informed child development, and free counseling to anyone, regardless of gender, who is a survivor of trauma and abuse. It's a great organization and we are very proud to donate to them and thankful to you. It's not something we take lately. Yeah, for sure. Okay, So to circle back to the Wings. They were really good, but you want to talk. Did you copy a recipe or did you just wig? It's really that was good And I didn't even I don't think you actually intended that.

1:10:09 I didn't. It just popped out very nice. I did find a recipe online. Yes, it we'll post that. We will post it. It was very simple and very easy. But yeah, we did go many years ago. We went to Buffalo and we went to the original Wing place. We did place called the Anchor Bar in Buffalo, New York. Yeah, it was very good, a little bit touristy, but it was great. Yeah, they were really good. But yours were great. I like the ones you made because they weren't too saucy. I kind of like the dryness, like you get kind of the chewiness, and the skin was you know, crispy, and yeah, I think the secret is baking powder. I guess if you have baking powder on the outside, it gets a little kind of crusty on the outside. So that was a fun trip though. We went to I think we went to Niagara. We had dropped our daughter off in Vermont, that's right. Yeah, yeah, she was going to going to ballet camp, and then we drove to Niagara Falls and then we went to the Anchor Bar. And we haven't gone on a trip and we need to get out of town. We do. Yeah, we probably don't mention this enough, but we are on Facebook and Instagram and a little bit on other social medias. But every week we post as many photos as we can find that support the case. And so I'm sure you have got some good photos. I do have a lot of great photos. Yeah, so please check us out on Instagram and you'll be glad you did, because we post, like I said, a lot of relevant photos that help you as you listen to the episode. And I should also mention that sometimes I post like all the photos, so there might be some spoiler photos. If you're listening,

1:11:41 you might not want to look at that until you've finished the episode. Good advice. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com. Please consider supporting the show on Patreon dot com slash Love Marykill. We only have one tier for five dollars a month for early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode and if you want to send us a snack. LMK podcast po box one one one Dexter, Michigan four eight one three zero. Well, thanks again for listening and until next time, well thank you because I know you're not feeling well, so I hope you get to go take a nap. I might just do that until next time. Don't kill your husband and don't kill your wife at