Sept. 9, 2024

MaryJane and Christian Longo - Part 2

MaryJane and Christian Longo - Part 2
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Christian Longo, 19, married his wife MaryJane, 26, in 1993 in Ann Arbor, Michigan. The couple had three children in rapid succession, Zachery, Sadie, and Madison. Chris was the sole breadwinner in the family and after his business, Final Touch Construction Cleaning, began to fail, he struggled to keep his family afloat and soon turned to a life of crime to make ends meet writing counterfeit checks. The family was in dire straits financially and had alienated all of their friends and family through Chris’ lies and deception.

They decided to head to the Oregon coast for a fresh start but soon Chris and MaryJane were out of money and options.On December 19, 2002, the body of Zachery Longo, 4, was found floating in the water. Soon after, his sister’s body was found in the same waters; later two suitcases were found containing the bodies of MaryJane and Madison.Days later, Christian Longo fled the country for Cancun Mexico.

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Today's snack: Starburst

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Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. And if there's one

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thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's.

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That some days you'll feel like killing your.

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Wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to Love, Mary Kill, Hello Rich, Hello Tina.

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How are you?

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I'm fine? How are you?

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I'm spectacular?

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Good dear.

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I'm glad you came back for part two.

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Oh did I have a choice?

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No? Remember when I was sick a couple of weeks

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ago and I was like, just record on your own

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and you were like no. I think they would have

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been really interesting to see how people felt.

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That everybody would have been sad.

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I think it would have been great and I would

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have actually been able to listen to that episode.

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I would have had the banter with myself and that

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just wouldn't work very well.

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I don't think maybe it would be even better.

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Yeah, we tried to get our daughter. Did maybe step in?

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She said no, thank you.

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You know, she did such a nice job when you

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did the Mother's Day episode she did.

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I thought she was fabulous and I thought.

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She kind of enjoyed it, but.

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Maybe yeah, she was like, no, I am not going

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to do it. Yeah, but then she was like, well,

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if you really feel she said she could be bribed,

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and I asked her to consider what type of bribe

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she would require.

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But then you said you were going to be a

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trooper and you did it.

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Maybe you should ask her for a Father's Day because

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that was kind of like her Mother's Day gift to me. Yes,

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So that was some game.

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Sure was. I can't believe Michigan won by eighty four points.

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That was crazy.

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I think you ever did it. Well, we're back and

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it's just hours later from when we recorded part one, so.

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We've only got like two hours until game time, so

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we really need to kind of get this movie.

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Game day crunch. Yeah, all right, I'll do my best. Okay.

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So a listener had asked us to do a Starburst

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challenge a while back, and I totally forgot to do it,

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and today we didn't really I didn't really have another snack.

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I didn't have one snack let alone too, So I

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decided we could do the Star Wars challenge. There's a

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TikTok challenge that I think it's like you eat starburs

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and then you make out or something. Okay, so we

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can do that if you want, but I think you

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have to guess the flavor. But I'm still a little sick.

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Okay, so maybe you know, okay, don't.

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Want to go too deep, but I'm not. How do

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you want to do this? Like I have four star

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Wars and I have four so we're going to try

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to guess the flavor you try, then we're going to

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category or numerate, like which ones we like best? Okay,

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So does that sound good? So the reason this came

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about was like, I don't think that I like the

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pink starburst. I think I like the yellow, and a

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lot of people don't like the yellow starmers, so that's

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why this.

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I'm not a big fan of the yellow, so.

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Okay, because I tend to like lemon flavored things. So

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all right, do you want to close your eyes? And

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I'm not sure we should do this. I'll give you

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one and then you can give me one, okay, okay,

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all right, ready, yep, okay, we'll be right back. Okay,

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that was hard.

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I thought it would be easy, and I have no

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idea what any of them were.

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I am just gonna guess that you gave me red, pink, yellow,

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and orange in that order.

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Red, pink, yellow, and orange. You got zero crup.

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Okay, I'm not surprised.

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All right, I'm gonna guess you gave me yellow, pink, red,

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and orange.

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Wait, what did you say?

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Yellow, pink, red, and orange?

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You got too, right, You've got pink and orange? Right, okay,

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did you have a favorite flavor?

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Well, seeing as I didn't know when any of them were, really,

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I I don't I like. I guess I like the

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cherry ones.

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But so the cherry red, okay, I would the first

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one I thought maybe was the one I liked the best.

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The first one that I gave you was strawberry pink.

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Yeah, okay, all right.

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Well, starbursts are great, bottom line.

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They are good. But I really thought that I would

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be able to at least say, oh, this is the

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yellow one.

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Can we do the same with skittles? Maybe another time?

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Sure, we can make skittles artwork. Remember when we did

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that with the kids when yeah at all? Yeah, actually

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they weren't that little. I think it was a few

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years ago. But like, you make a rainbow or something,

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and was.

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It alcohol alcohol?

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Didn't you like? Put alcohol like on the plate and

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then put the skittles and then they blood the colors

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into a rainbow or was it just water?

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I don't remember.

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Okay, Well, Starburst are yummy. I am old enough to

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remember a green Starburst.

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Oh I forgot about green Starburst.

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Yeah. Did you eat Starburst when you were a kid.

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Not really. It was always more of a chocolate guy.

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You know me. Yeah, I Star Wars start. They're good though,

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but yeah, I guess I'll blame it on my post

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COVID taste bloods. I don't know that was that was

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not a good show. But they really do taste quite similarly.

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They really do.

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I think you have to know what you're putting in

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your mouth.

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Mm hmm.

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Anyway, thank you for participating in the Star Wars.

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Thanks for letting me win.

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Oh was it a contest?

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It's always a contest to us, you know that.

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No, I don't know that.

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I think you are very competitive. You say you are

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not competitive, but you really are.

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Okay, you have to you can't just say that. Well,

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give me an example.

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I can't think of any examples off the top of

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my head.

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Well, thank you for making my point. I mean, I

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like to win a game, but I don't know it's

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hard with you because don't get a big head. But

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you're you're good at a lot of everything. You're good

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at a lot of things. I'm good at a lot

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of things. To those things, good much many things, very

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many things. All right, Well, should we get to part two?

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We have a lot to cover today.

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Let's do that.

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Today's episode, while not graphic, does contain violence against women

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and children, so please listen with care. Well. Thank you

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all for bearing with us last week's episode. I hope

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that the ann Arbor references weren't annoying to anyone, but

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that was fun for us to be able to visualize

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the actual places it really is where the crime occurred. Yea,

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and hang in there with me. I'm still my voice

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is still not great. I'm still coughing a lot, and

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I know you've got some respiratory stuff going on too.

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So we apologize for the quality of our voices. We're

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doing the best we can do. You want to give

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us a quick summary that I have wrote in advance.

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I would happy to read the quick summary that you wrote.

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So Christian Longo, who was nineteen at the time he

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married Mary Jane, who was twenty six, in nineteen ninety

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three in ann Arbor Michigan. They had three children in

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rapid succession, Zachary, Sadie, and Madison. Chris was the sole

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breadwinner in the family and he had a business, Final

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Touch Construction cleaning, but the business began to fail because

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he wasn't getting paid by the different contractors and the

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cash flow wasn't working, and he was kind of spending

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money on things that maybe weren't super smart, saying.

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He didn't need a boat and two jet skis exactly.

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So he's struggled again, like where was he taking them?

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I mean, there's a lot of lakes around here. But

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he was struggling to keep the family afloat, and he

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soon turned to crime to make ends meet, so doing

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things like writing counterfeit checks and forging a driver's license

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for somebody and then driving a car off the lot.

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So the family was in really bad shape financially. They

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had credit cards maxed out, they had alienated all their

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friends and family because of Chris lying and deceiving them,

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so they decided to head to the Oregon Coast for

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a fresh start, but soon Chris and Mary Jane ran

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out of money and options. On December nineteenth, twenty two

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thousand and two, the body of Zachary Longo, who was four,

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was found floating in the water. Soon after that, his

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sister's body was found in the same waters, and then

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later two suitcases were found containing the bodies of Mary,

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Jane and Madison. I think those were found in the

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pond behind the townhouse where they lived.

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I think it was a bay that led to the ocean,

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not a pond.

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Gotcha. Just days after all the bodies were found, Christian

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Longo fled the country to go to Cancun, Mexico, and

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I think that's where we left off.

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When he arrived in Cancun, Chris was so confident that

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he'd evaded law enforcement that he didn't bother to alter

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his appearance. He found a ten dollars a night hostile

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and lived as cheaply as he could, cooking food in

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the hostel's kitchen. He quickly made friends with the other

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people at the hostel, drinking, smoking, pod and skinny dipping

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with them. He was propositioned by several women, but Longo

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didn't indulge. He said he was grieving his wife and children.

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Longo was essentially a conservative man and was turned off

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by the drug and alcohol abuse. In Mexico. I remember

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this version of the story is from Chris's perspective. I

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think some of this is probably BS. Chris created a

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new identity in Cancun, well not a new identity, but

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rather he borrowed someone else's identity. He began introducing himself

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as a journalist from the New York Times, Michael Finkel.

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Christian had read Finkel's work and followed his career for years,

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beginning with Skiing magazine. He thought that posing as a

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travel reporter on assignment would help him blend in with

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the locals, and he was right for the most part.

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Finkel later told Forty eight Hours quote, he did a

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better job of being Michael Finkel than I ever did

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of being Michael Finkel.

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That's kind of weird, though, that you would pose as

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someone like a well known figure.

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Like I don't think he was super well known.

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Yeah, I know, not super well known, but just somebody

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who had a name. It just seems like not a

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great idea, but I guess it worked for him for

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a while.

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Well, remember that he used to deliver the newspaper, specifically

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the New York Times. So I think he, you know,

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was a smart guy, and he did like to read

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the newspaper. So disgusted by the debauchery and hedonism he

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witnessed in Cancun, Chris began seeking out comer friendships. He

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was happy to meet an older British couple who were

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retired teachers. While at dinner one night, the man asked

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him how he chose in journalism as a career. Christian

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told him that he'd been pursuing a degree in business

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at the University of Michigan when he'd realized that he

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didn't want a desk job, and despite his dislike of writing,

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he'd settled on journalism so he could travel and see

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the world. The couple expressed interest in sharing some of

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their travel stories with him for a possible article. On

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the spot, Chris gave them a fake email address, Mfinkel

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at New York Times dot com. A couple of weeks

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into his new life, he met a German woman different

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from any woman he'd ever encountered. Yanina Frank had pink hair, tattoos,

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a pierced tongue and eyebrow. She'd come to photograph the

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Mayan Ruins. She was trying to carve out a career

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as a professional photographer. Longo, intrigued with a woman, told

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her that he was a journalist with the New York

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Times and maybe they could work together. She couldn't believe

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her luck. Imagine you're this woman who wants to make

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it to the photographer and he's like, oh, with the

239
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New York Times.

240
00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:47.279
Yeah. Yeah.

241
00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.039
Chris told Yanina that he was tired of the rock

242
00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.279
a scene in can Kuhn, and they set off for

243
00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:56.559
Tulum together about sixty miles south of canon Kuhn, But

244
00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:00.000
in reality, Longo was asked to leave the youth hostel

245
00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:04.919
after other guests reported having money stolen, and Longo was

246
00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:09.440
the suspect. He and Yanina rented a spartan grass hut

247
00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:13.360
near the beach. Longo had convinced himself that by using

248
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Finkel's byline, maybe he and Yanina could actually get an

249
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article published. I mean, it's super easy to get an

250
00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:25.320
article published by the Generic Times. They just take eyes. Yeah.

251
00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:27.320
He claimed that he had no intent of having a

252
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:32.120
sexual relationship with Yanina, but his ambitions quickly lowered once

253
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.840
they were sharing a bed. They did work on the

254
00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:38.240
article together for several days. Trapsing through the jungle exploring,

255
00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:41.679
they climbed the Pyramids and snorkeled in the ocean. These

256
00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:45.360
last moments of freedom are happy memories for Longo. He

257
00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:48.639
had deluded himself enough to believe that he had a future.

258
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.519
Makes me really angry that he had any happy memories

259
00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:54.559
after what he did to his family.

260
00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:57.039
And it is crazy, like less than two weeks after

261
00:12:57.080 --> 00:12:57.799
his family.

262
00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:00.600
Did, he's galvanning around like getting this woman.

263
00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:01.879
He said.

264
00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:02.759
He was sad though.

265
00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:06.279
On the night of January thirteenth, Chris and Yuanina were

266
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:09.120
drinking and smoking weed in a cabana at a beach

267
00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.399
resort with some new friends. Suddenly, six FBI agents stormed

268
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.639
into the small dwelling while six more surrounded the hut.

269
00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:20.320
They cuffed Longo and dragged him through the sand. Shaken,

270
00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.919
he confirmed his identity to the officers and left without incident.

271
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On January eleventh, two thousand and two, a Canadian woman

272
00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.399
who had just returned from Cancun saw Longo on the

273
00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:35.799
FBI's ten most Wanted list and tip them off. She

274
00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:38.840
had met him twice. The first time he introduced himself

275
00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:42.559
is Brad, the next time is Mike, which set off

276
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:45.919
alarms for her. A tour guide in Tuloom also called

277
00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.960
in a sighting. Longo had one of the shortestants on

278
00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:53.120
the FBI's most wanted list. Only two days Longo agreed

279
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:55.840
to voluntary return to the United States. He opted not

280
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.639
to spend time in a Mexican jail. He was not

281
00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:02.159
interviewed or interrogated until he was back in the United States.

282
00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:04.960
He arrived in Houston and spent the night in the

283
00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:08.639
Harris County Jail under suicide watch before flying to Portland

284
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.799
the next morning. While on the plane, the FBI agent

285
00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:15.480
Clegg asked Longo why he'd killed his family. He answered,

286
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:20.120
without hesitation, quote, I sent them to a better place. Yeah.

287
00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:23.159
This wasn't a formal interview, so the statement couldn't be

288
00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:27.360
considered a confession. At eight pm on Tuesday, January fifteenth,

289
00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:30.879
two thousand and two, Longo, accompanied by two officers, landed

290
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.000
in Portland, Oregon. He was driven to the Lincoln County

291
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:38.200
Jail in Newport, two hours away. Around midnight, he was

292
00:14:38.240 --> 00:14:41.360
taken into an interrogation room in an attempt to get

293
00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:45.039
a confession. He sobbed when the detectives asked him about

294
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.600
his family. He seemed sincerely distraught, but he refused to

295
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:52.720
accept responsibility for their deaths. His words were odd. When

296
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.799
asked for his confession, he said quote, I'm going to wait,

297
00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:00.840
and he never talked to the police again. January twenty third,

298
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:04.440
two thousand and two, Dia Bernice Barrett announced her intention

299
00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.320
to seek the death penalty against Christian Longo. His bail

300
00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.000
was set at two point five million dollars. It was

301
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:15.039
his twenty eighth birthday. Christian quickly realized that he had

302
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.399
no support from friends, family, or the public. He received

303
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.840
zero letters of support. His own parents thought he was guilty.

304
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:25.919
Christian Longo's most ardent support and friendship came from an

305
00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.080
unlikely source, the man whose identity he had stolen disgraced

306
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:33.679
to New York Times reporter Michael Finkel. The author of

307
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.679
the book true story murder Memoir Mia Coppa by Michael Finkel,

308
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:41.039
has an intriguing story of his own. He started his

309
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:46.679
career writing for Skiing magazine, Sports Illustrated, and National Geographic Adventure,

310
00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:49.639
but had ascended to his dream job at the New

311
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:53.600
York Times magazine before an embarrassing incident in February two

312
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:56.480
thousand and two that led to his firing and public

313
00:15:56.559 --> 00:15:59.960
fall from grace. Finkel whose friends and family had been

314
00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.840
he'd become self important with an inflated ego after his

315
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.679
sudden career success embellished a story he wrote about cocoa

316
00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:11.159
bean harvesting. He spent several weeks in the Ivory Coast

317
00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:15.399
researching a story. There are an estimated six hundred thousand

318
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:19.600
cocoa bean plantations there, as many as ninety percent were

319
00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:24.279
thought to use slavery for maintaining and harvesting crops. That's

320
00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:25.320
a huge number, isn't it.

321
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.200
It is a huge number.

322
00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.480
Finkel investigated a claim that children as young as nine

323
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.399
were used for slave labor and whipped daily, when in

324
00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:35.200
fact they were not. Most of the boys were actually

325
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:38.919
older teens and were not victims of slavery but extreme poverty.

326
00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:42.399
Finkel made the distinction and is careful to explain that

327
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.039
if people are less inclined to buy their cocoa beans

328
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:48.720
under the belief that the plantations are exploiting child laborers,

329
00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:53.440
their situation will worsen. The laborers don't know what chocolate is,

330
00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.480
They only know the cocoa bean. Can you imagine? No.

331
00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:00.840
When Finkel realized the slavery angle to his story wasn't viable,

332
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.799
his editor implored him to find a new angle to

333
00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:07.720
the story. The result was a boy named Yusuf Malay,

334
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:12.400
who wasn't completely Michael's creation, but an amalgamation of the

335
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:15.119
boys and young men he'd met on his trip to

336
00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:20.039
the Ivory Coast, a completely unacceptable practice for a journalist,

337
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.920
and quite problematically, Yusef Malay was a real boy who

338
00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:29.599
he'd interviewed. The photographer who'd accompanied Finkel did not have

339
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.119
a picture of the real Usef, but Michael provided a

340
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.480
photo that he'd taken of a different child and told

341
00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:42.559
his editor that it was Yusef. Again completely unacceptable and deceptive,

342
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:47.720
especially for The New York Times. Ultimately, the organization Save

343
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.200
the Children saw the article, and they were enraged that

344
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:54.759
Finkel had criticized their work in Africa in the article,

345
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:58.640
which could have compromised the important life saving work the

346
00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:03.279
organization does. There. Save the Children found the real use

347
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.079
of Malay and interviewed him. His story varied greatly from

348
00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:10.839
the version of Yusef that Finkel had portrayed in his article.

349
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.240
Save the Children was also outraged when they realized that

350
00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:19.480
he had not used an actual picture of Yusef. They

351
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:24.319
demanded an apology. And a correction. Finkel flew to New

352
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.559
York to face his editors in person. They were shocked

353
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.440
at his brazen acts of irresponsibility in the name of

354
00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.640
The New York Times, and he was fired immediately. To

355
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.759
make matters worse, his transgression was made public, and Finkel

356
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:42.119
was disgraced by fellow writers and other publications he might

357
00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:46.279
have otherwise sought employment with. The ultimate irony is that

358
00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:50.759
his firing and public lashing coincided with the Longo murders.

359
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.319
Just as one door slam shut, another door opened for

360
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.720
Fingal Finkel, all because of Christian Longo.

361
00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:01.000
So did when Christian Longo started using Michael Finkel's name.

362
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:05.160
Was that before the scandal hit with Michael Finkel.

363
00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.319
I mean just within a few days around the same time,

364
00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.920
a reporter from The Oregonian called Finkel to get a

365
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.640
quote from him about Christian Longo stealing his identity, and

366
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:17.839
it was the first he had heard of Kristin Longo,

367
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.680
a man who would soon become all too familiar to him.

368
00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:25.839
Longo had woven their fates together for eternity by borrowing

369
00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:29.319
his identity. The call came at the same time that

370
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:33.440
Finkel was anous anxiously awaiting the outing of his deceitful

371
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:38.319
article and the impending end of his journalistic integrity and reputation.

372
00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.839
So the New York Times was going to be published

373
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.119
like a little correction, right, and that's what he was

374
00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:49.640
anxiously awaiting to happen. The timing of these two events

375
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:50.640
is unbelievable.

376
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.480
It really is crazy. And the fact that Longo would

377
00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:57.880
start to would choose this guy's identity right at that

378
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.000
exact time that this scandal was just about to come out,

379
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:01.880
it's just so weird.

380
00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.759
And he wasn't like a super well known journalist. He

381
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:06.799
was just kind of you know, he'd only I think

382
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.079
at that point, written maybe three articles for the New

383
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:13.160
York Times magazine. Yeah, he was doing well. But it's

384
00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:16.799
just it is odd that I guess because he wasn't

385
00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:20.039
known that while like Longo knew that he could steal

386
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.480
his identity. Remember that he used to deliver the newspapers,

387
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:26.400
and I think he read the New York Times.

388
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:28.279
Long Longo did Longo did?

389
00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:29.599
Yeah? When he Yeah, I had that.

390
00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.440
Yeah, so he probably knew Michael Finkel's name from that. Well,

391
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:33.960
here's so that.

392
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.839
He'd even read like his early work in skiing magazine

393
00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:37.519
and things like that.

394
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:38.640
So interesting it is.

395
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:40.920
It is strange that you would follow a journalist's career

396
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.680
like that. Yeah, never done that with any journalists, say.

397
00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.119
Longo was being kept in solitary considered extremely dangerous, But

398
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.799
when Michael Finkel arrived at the prison to hear his

399
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.799
life story, he found him to be young, articulate, and attractive,

400
00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:58.759
looking more like he belonged at a fraternity party than

401
00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.839
a county jail awaiting trial for killing his wife and

402
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:06.160
three children. But Finkel was most surprised by Longo's intelligence

403
00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:10.599
and keen observation skills. Longo told Finkel that he'd been

404
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.559
mostly good in his twenty eight years. He had broken

405
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.440
it down to a number. He calculated that he'd been

406
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.359
good for ninety two point eight eight percent of his life,

407
00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:23.079
but that seven point one two percent he'd been very bad,

408
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:26.039
evil and his crimes didn't begin with the murder of

409
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:27.400
Mary Jane and his children.

410
00:21:27.559 --> 00:21:30.160
I bet that number is more like twenty six percent.

411
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:30.759
What do you think?

412
00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:32.759
I mean, you could be good for ninety nine percent

413
00:21:32.759 --> 00:21:34.480
of your life, and if you do something as horrible

414
00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.200
as he did in the one percent, it doesn't make

415
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.160
up for it very true. Finkel knew the damage to

416
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.960
his reputation would be nearly impossible to salvage. His next

417
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.920
work would need to be scrupulously honest and obsessively researched.

418
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.680
While Longo had promised to be frank and sincere, he

419
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:57.319
was also a professed pathological liar. Anything Chris told Michael,

420
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:02.039
he cross checked with other sources. Despite painting himself to

421
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:05.119
Finkle as a grieving husband and father, the people that

422
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:08.519
Michael talked to from Chris's Cancoon trip said that he

423
00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:12.000
was jovial and friendly. One of these sources said the

424
00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:16.640
following about Christian Longo quote. He introduced himself as Mike

425
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.720
and said he worked for the New York Times. He

426
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.000
was having a fine time with us. We were smoking

427
00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:24.319
joints and drinking booze, diving off cliffs in the jungle.

428
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:26.680
I have photos of him and me with our arms

429
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.960
around each other. He was totally cool. I really enjoyed

430
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.519
his company. I wanted to stay in touch with him.

431
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:35.240
We talked a lot of politics. We talked about women

432
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:37.160
quite a lot. He said that he used to have

433
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.319
a wife. I said, what happened? He said, I got

434
00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:42.920
rid of her. She was cheating on him. He said,

435
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:45.160
you're not going to think I'll bet that guy kill

436
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:49.839
this family. He was well spoken, polite, obviously intelligent. It

437
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:51.960
made perfect sense to me that he was working for

438
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.599
the New York Times. He had a good sense of humor.

439
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.440
He'd point out chicks like we all would. But he

440
00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:00.839
was a perfect gentleman. He always bought drinks women. He

441
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:05.680
was very respectful. Unquote. Chris and Mike's first in person

442
00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:09.319
meeting was only thirty minutes. Longo handed him a seventy

443
00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:13.519
eight page letter. The letter contained much of Christian's childhood

444
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:16.920
and teen years. He credited his parents with giving him

445
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.680
a loving support at home. In June two thousand and two,

446
00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:24.400
Finkel received another letter from Longo. This time it was

447
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:28.279
a fifty two page letter he titled Wrong Turns, detailing

448
00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:30.880
all the mistakes that led him to murder his wife

449
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.799
and three small children. He closed the letter with quote,

450
00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:37.319
I didn't commit the act, but this whole incident is

451
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.200
my fault for not being home to ultimately protect unquote.

452
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:43.759
I don't know what he's I mean, I know what

453
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:45.839
he's implying there. I don't want to say anything else.

454
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.599
Yeah, he's pretty I was going to say, he's delusional,

455
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:53.680
but he's obviously just playing games. Yeah, exactly. The pair

456
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.279
met several times in person, but also chatted on the

457
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.160
phone as often as possible until Longo went quiet. He

458
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.039
knew that his story was intriguing and many writers would

459
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.319
love the opportunity to write it. Chris knew that Finkel

460
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:09.400
was planning on writing a book. He demanded a cut

461
00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.160
of the profits and wanted an agreement in writing. Michael

462
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:16.039
knew that a contract would compromise the project and further

463
00:24:16.119 --> 00:24:19.240
damage his reputation. Other than putting a couple of one

464
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:22.480
hundred dollars into his commissary account at the prison, he

465
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.880
refused to pay Longo. To diffuse the tension in their relationship,

466
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:31.480
Finkel began corresponding solely through letters. He realized that Chris

467
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:34.720
didn't have much support, not even from his parents, and

468
00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:37.640
he just offered his friendship, trying to win his trust.

469
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:40.960
They played chess by mail, one move at a time.

470
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.240
Michael confided in Chris about his hopes and fears. He

471
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:49.000
shared his insecurities about his new relationship and future career.

472
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:52.640
He said that his letters to Chris contained a vulnerability

473
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:56.240
that he didn't share with anyone else. Chris, in turn,

474
00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.599
wrote to Michael about his life in prison, the bad food,

475
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:02.920
the the other inmates, and their life stories. Some of

476
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.400
his letters were dozens of pages long, handwritten in Longo's

477
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.359
meticulous penmanship, rife with spelling errors, but also full of

478
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:15.119
his impressive vocabulary. Chris was embarrassed that he never attended college,

479
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.160
but liked to go toe to toe with Finkel, showing

480
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.559
off his intelligence. Chris discovered that there was a five

481
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:24.920
hundred dollar bounty on his head at the Oregon State Penitentiary,

482
00:25:25.240 --> 00:25:28.119
where he'd likely be sent, and a one hundred dollar

483
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:31.880
prize for the first inmate to rape him. Longo read

484
00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.799
a lot in the jail while he awaited trial, almost

485
00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.720
a book a day. With their trust once again re established,

486
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.519
they began talking on the phone again. Longo called Finkel

487
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:46.480
every Wednesday night. Their talks were usually casual and friendly.

488
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.440
They promised to always be honest with each other, and

489
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:53.000
Chris promised Michael exclusive rights to his story, and he

490
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.880
kept his word. In the year before the trial, Longo

491
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.440
and Finkel had fifty conversations over the telephone, and each

492
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.880
had written twenty three letters to the other. Michael began

493
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:07.400
to feel uneasy as he realized how important his relationship

494
00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:10.039
with Chris had become in his year of near isolation

495
00:26:10.599 --> 00:26:13.880
since being fired from The New York Times, Chris had

496
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.559
become one of his only friends and confidants. He tried

497
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:19.720
not to think of him as a murderer, but as

498
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:22.359
the trial approached, he would be forced to snap back

499
00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:25.759
to reality. He knew it was very likely that Christian

500
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.039
Longo had killed his wife and three children, even if

501
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.920
he never confessed to him. Finkel realized that Longo had

502
00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:35.720
manipulated him to hone the story he would tell to

503
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.680
the jury and to paint himself in the most positive

504
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.519
light when Michael eventually wrote his book, So what you're

505
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:44.359
saying there is like in the letters that Christian wrote

506
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:46.920
to Michael that he was almost kind of rehearsing what

507
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:48.519
he was going to say on the stand, or how

508
00:26:48.519 --> 00:26:50.000
he was going to approach.

509
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:53.119
Kind of developing his story right.

510
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.799
On October first, two thousand and two, Longo had his

511
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:59.960
first court hearing at the Lincoln County Courthouse in Newport,

512
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:04.240
Washington to enter a plea. His court appointed attorney said

513
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.720
that Longo was using his right to stand mute on

514
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:09.839
all charges, but reserved the right to later enter a

515
00:27:09.880 --> 00:27:11.279
plea of guilty or innocent.

516
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:14.519
So this mute play I've never heard before.

517
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:15.160
I have neither.

518
00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:20.160
Yeah, it's rarely used and considered disrespectful to the court

519
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:21.039
when used.

520
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:21.920
Interesting.

521
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:24.920
Yeah, I mean you're encouraged to enter a plea, right.

522
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:27.640
You know again, Longo is playing a lot of these games.

523
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:32.119
M Prior to his trial, Longo met with a psychologist

524
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:35.119
who gave him a battery of tests. His lawyers were

525
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.519
trying to find a diagnosis that they could work with

526
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.599
to explain his actions to the jury. The psychologist found

527
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:45.680
him to be very intelligent with excellent verbal skills. Longo

528
00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:50.319
was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. What not a big surprise?

529
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:54.920
Huh Yeah. Unbeknownst to Longo, Michael Finkel sent letters from him,

530
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:59.039
along with some background information, to three different psychologists and

531
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.319
asked them to eventvaluate him. They also came back with

532
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:07.720
the diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. One psychologist said, quote,

533
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.319
lying is their nature, not just their second nature, but

534
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:15.680
their nature. Beware of their snares unquote. We'll be back

535
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.519
after a break.

536
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.400
This is going to make you really mad oh Good.

537
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.960
On Valentine's Day two thousand and three, Longo entered the

538
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:32.880
courtroom for a pre trial hearing. He had teased to

539
00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:36.400
Finkle that he had somewhat of a surprise planned. He

540
00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:41.319
didn't give any further details, He just said, wait and see. Longo,

541
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.519
flanked by his two court appointed attorneys, was ready to

542
00:28:45.640 --> 00:28:49.359
enter a plea or please to the murder of his

543
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.279
two older children, Zach and Sadie. He entered a plea

544
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:55.799
of not guilty to the murder of Mary, Jane and Madison.

545
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.799
He pleaded guilty. Hm The judge caution Longo of the

546
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.480
grammifications of pleading guilty and a death penalty case. Most

547
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.440
defendants would only plead guilty if the death penalty was

548
00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:11.480
taken off the table. Longo said he understood. The courtroom

549
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:15.440
was baffled why he would plead guilty to two murders

550
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.799
and not all four. But Longo was a step ahead

551
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.440
of everyone. He crafted detail that would shock.

552
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:24.279
Oh, it's all coming back to me now, I remember.

553
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.759
I know. This makes me so mad. It took two

554
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:29.440
weeks to seat the jury, eight women and four men

555
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:33.160
ranging in age from nineteen to sixty two, in order

556
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:35.200
to sit on the jury. They had to agree with

557
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:39.440
capital punishment. Christian was surprised that twelve people could agree

558
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.480
to possibly put him to death. He was accustomed to

559
00:29:42.519 --> 00:29:46.400
people finding him charming. Longo wrote to Finkle that he

560
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:50.119
was not afraid of the consequences. Quote, I will live

561
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:53.039
or die by the truth. Nothing matters more right now

562
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:55.519
in my life than that. If it kills me to

563
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:58.359
tell the truth in every matter, so be it. I

564
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:01.519
am a dead man. Do you think he's going to

565
00:30:01.599 --> 00:30:02.160
tell the truth?

566
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:03.000
No, of course.

567
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:06.920
The prosecution alleged that Chris strangled all our members of

568
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.359
his family. He put Mary Jane in Madison and waited suitcases,

569
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:13.680
and then threw them into the Yaquina Bay near their condo.

570
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:17.440
He drove Zachary and Sadie's bodies about fifteen miles away

571
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.039
and threw them off the lint Sloth Bridge after he'd

572
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:24.200
bound them together in a black comforter and tied pillowcases

573
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.400
filled with rocks around their small bodies. In the hours

574
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:29.960
after he killed his family, Longo stole a car, went

575
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.720
to the gym, played volleyball with friends, worked a shift

576
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.440
at fred Meyer, and then rented movies. He threw out

577
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:39.880
five garbage bags of his family's possessions, including scrap books,

578
00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:43.240
stuffed animals, brand new clothing, and even Mary Jane's purse.

579
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:46.960
He then attended the Starbucks Christmas party and gave away

580
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:50.359
a bottle of Mary Jane's perfume. He told the attendees

581
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:52.279
at the party that Mary Jane had left him for

582
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:56.720
another man and taken the children with her. Once Zachary's

583
00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.119
body had ascended to the surface, days later, Longo fl

584
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.680
to San Francisco, then Mexico. The prosecution took seven days

585
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.559
to present their case. The evidence was largely circumstantial, but

586
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.920
the man who had seen Longo on the bridge in

587
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:14.920
the early morning hours of December eighteenth testified and placed

588
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:18.680
Chris near the location where Zachary and Sadi's bodies were

589
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:23.559
eventually found. That was probably the best piece of evidence

590
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:27.559
against him, other than all of the mounting circumstantial evidence.

591
00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:31.240
It's always good to have an eyeball witness.

592
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:36.039
Is it. Eyeball witnesses are some of the worst evidence.

593
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:37.720
I know you're going to say that, but still good.

594
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:40.200
No. I think in this case it really was because

595
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.559
he could identify the maroon van and he saw Chris

596
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:48.240
and Christian testified at the trial. He was on the

597
00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.160
witness stand for several days. Can you imagine having to

598
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:54.640
listen to his bs no? On day four, he finally

599
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:56.920
told the rest of the story of what happened to

600
00:31:57.079 --> 00:32:00.559
his family. On the night of December sixth teenth, Chris

601
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.160
couldn't sleep. Mary Jane asked him what was wrong, and

602
00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:05.680
he unloaded on to her all of the lies he

603
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.559
had been telling her since he'd promised to be honest

604
00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:12.359
after the counterfeit check scam. He told her about the

605
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:16.799
stolen van, the additional counterfeit checks, how he'd lie to

606
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:20.799
their landlord about having money, and many other lies. He

607
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:22.759
told her that they would be evicted and on the

608
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:26.559
streets within days. Mary Jane was furious and locked him

609
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:29.279
out of the bedroom. She drove him to work the

610
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.119
next afternoon for his shift and picked him up later

611
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:35.519
that night, not speaking a single word to him. Their

612
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:39.200
three small children weren't in the van. Mary Jane wouldn't

613
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:42.039
tell him where the children were. He tore through the

614
00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:45.000
condo when they returned home, searching for the children. He

615
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:48.359
couldn't find Zach or Sadie. He found Madison in the bedroom,

616
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:52.359
purple and barely breathing. Mary Jane was hysterical and not

617
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.559
communicating while Christian demanded to know what had happened. He

618
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:58.599
picked her up and hit her head against the wall.

619
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:02.039
She said, quote, you did this. This was your fault.

620
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:05.480
You did this, You killed us. End quote. She told

621
00:33:05.559 --> 00:33:07.720
Chris that the other two children were in the water.

622
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.519
He said, he lost his temper and strangled her. Then

623
00:33:11.559 --> 00:33:13.359
he put her in a suitcase, and that's when he

624
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:17.440
noticed little Madison was still breathing. He strangled the last

625
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:19.400
breaths out of her and then placed her in a

626
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.240
suitcase filled with clothing and scuba diving weights, before placing

627
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.359
both suitcases into the bay. The condo backed up too.

628
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.240
He didn't know what had happened to Zach and Sadie,

629
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.480
he said, until days later when he'd heard the news.

630
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:39.559
Oh do you believe his version of and it's so

631
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:44.839
it makes me so angry that he would basically, yeah,

632
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:47.160
I know, she was a very loving mother. She would

633
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:50.519
have never done that. Who what others comeback did the

634
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:53.240
same thing, Chris Watts.

635
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.000
Oh, that's right, I forgot about that.

636
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:58.680
On Monday, April second, two thousand and three, the case

637
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.839
went to the jury and took the jury only four

638
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:04.839
hours to find Christian Lango guilty on all accounts. Later,

639
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.720
the jury foreman revealed that the jury had reached a

640
00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:09.280
consensus within minutes.

641
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:11.320
Well, I'm not surprised.

642
00:34:11.440 --> 00:34:13.960
Can you imagine how angry they. I mean, you're so

643
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.599
angry listening to it, and I was so angry reading it.

644
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.079
Well, having to hear him on the stand for four

645
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.559
days or whatever it was, would just ye, that would

646
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:24.280
make me incensed being on that jury, and really there's.

647
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:29.400
No doubt that he was guilty. The penalty phase took

648
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:32.880
four days. Longo's parents both testified on his behalf, as

649
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.519
did his younger brother Dustin, but Christian Longo was sentenced

650
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:39.960
to death. Mary Jane's sister Penny released a statement on

651
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:43.199
behalf of her family that simply said, quote, many people

652
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:47.559
talk about closure, there is no closure. Mary Jane, Zachary, Sadie,

653
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:50.239
and Madison are gone. I think that's how I would

654
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:53.360
feel if this, ever, you know, happened to us, because

655
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:55.800
people always talk about closure, and I just feel like, yeah,

656
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:56.920
I mean, there's just.

657
00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:59.159
Some family member. Nothing was going to bring them back.

658
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.519
Oh Y. After eight years on death row, the State

659
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:07.679
of Oregon imposed a moratorium on executions, and Christian Longo's

660
00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:11.119
life was spared. In December twenty twenty two, his death

661
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:14.119
sentence was officially commuted to life in prison without parole.

662
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:14.559
Wow.

663
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.760
After the verdict was read, Longo wrote Finkel a thirty

664
00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:22.239
seven page letter trying to explain his testimony in detail.

665
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:24.840
Do you think by this time Finkl is like, oh,

666
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:26.960
I cannot read another word?

667
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:28.079
Yes, I would think so.

668
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.360
He claimed that Mary Jane had killed the children to

669
00:35:31.400 --> 00:35:32.199
punish him.

670
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.039
Of course, it's all about him exactly.

671
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.480
Longo said he did realize that although Mary Jane had

672
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:40.480
killed two of the children and attempted to kill the third,

673
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:44.000
he was the cause. Longo could tell that he'd lost

674
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.159
his power over Finkel, who was disgusted at his lies

675
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.920
and further deception, his cowardice to paint his loyal wife

676
00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:55.639
as a murderer instead of accepting responsibility. Longo had a

677
00:35:55.639 --> 00:35:58.840
peculiar relationship with the truth. Each time he was caught

678
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.400
in a lie or serious of lies, he vowed to

679
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:05.079
never lie again to become a better man. After testifying

680
00:36:05.079 --> 00:36:08.079
that Mary Jane was responsible for the children's deaths, he

681
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:11.239
wrote to Finkel, quote, maybe this is the one time

682
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:14.159
that I should have lied. Maybe in some way I

683
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:17.559
took the cowardly course by not taking all of the blame.

684
00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:20.199
Maybe for the second time in the last year and

685
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.440
a half, I've made a horrendous and devastating decision in

686
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:26.800
telling the absolute truth, the first ending in the deaths

687
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:30.719
of my entire family. My wrote to honesty, maybe proving

688
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:34.800
more treacherous and debilitating than the egregious course of lies

689
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.960
and dishonesty. I did not take the lives of Zach

690
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:41.000
and Sadie and confused even more now, to the point

691
00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:44.840
of whiplash. End quote. He said he was ashamed, but

692
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:49.000
he had told the truth. In Qurte, Finkel told him

693
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:53.719
that he needed space. Finkel wrote in his book True Story. Quote,

694
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:56.800
I hated him. I hated him in the intense way

695
00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:59.599
that you can only hate someone that you've truly once

696
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.360
cared a what Longo had done to his family, and

697
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.559
how he'd acted in court, and the ways in which

698
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.920
he'd toyed with me, and the fact that he had

699
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:11.519
never expressed any genuine remorse or even seemed to grasp

700
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:14.599
the magnitude of his crimes. I saw all that. I

701
00:37:14.639 --> 00:37:17.239
saw all that, and I hated him more. I was

702
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:21.280
thankful for the juror's decision. I agreed with them. Longo

703
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.599
I thought deserved to die. He had come to me

704
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:26.599
as a liar and a con man and a possible killer.

705
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:29.320
And during our time together I had given him every

706
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:33.000
benefit of the doubt. I had accepted him as at

707
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:36.920
least a partially kind and empathetic man. I had believed

708
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.599
that he was striving to become more honest and trustworthy.

709
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:42.079
But when it came to the ultimate test of his

710
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.679
essential decency in court under oath, in front of his

711
00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.000
and Mary Jane's families, he told the biggest and worst

712
00:37:49.039 --> 00:37:52.079
lies of his life. I had been fascinated by Longo.

713
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.360
I had also been fooled by him. As he was

714
00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:56.800
let out of court for the final time, he seemed

715
00:37:56.800 --> 00:37:59.679
to me not much different than the first day he called.

716
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.079
He left as a liar and a con man and

717
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:06.159
a definite killer. He was gone, condemned to die, and

718
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.320
I had this sense of having survived something, a storm

719
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.039
of sorts, And here I was on the back end,

720
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.159
alive and intact, though in many ways not the same

721
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:19.400
person at all end. Quote Finkel wrote a ten page

722
00:38:19.480 --> 00:38:22.119
letter to Chris. The letter, he hoped would give them

723
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.559
both closure and be his last. He told Chris that

724
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:28.800
he was sickened by him and was incredulous that he

725
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:34.280
hadn't taken responsibility for his actions and had spewned more lies. Longo,

726
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.639
of course, wrote back and delivered a new set of

727
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.400
lies and justifications. He said, quote what I said on

728
00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.559
the stand was false. I am absolutely guilty of killing

729
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:47.639
my entire family. I'd admit the past and monsterize myself

730
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:50.000
in the eyes of the jury. I would try to

731
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:54.320
be emotionless to add credibility to that monsterization. I would

732
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.880
tell the story as planned to cement the hatred of

733
00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:00.119
both loved ones and the jurors, which would guarantee the

734
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.280
guilty conviction and pave the way for a death penalty decision.

735
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:08.400
End quote. He claimed he was trying to receive the

736
00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:12.320
death penalty to atone for his crimes. He continued, quote,

737
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:14.800
I know that you didn't believe me on the stand.

738
00:39:14.920 --> 00:39:17.360
I know that nobody else believed me either. What I

739
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:20.119
said in regards to what happened that night wasn't meant

740
00:39:20.119 --> 00:39:23.199
to be believed. It was meant for everyone to despise

741
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.239
me and move on. End quote.

742
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:29.360
That's really bizarre. So now he's saying he lied on

743
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:32.800
the stand, but he did it intentionally because he wanted

744
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:36.480
everyone wanted to death hate him. He wanted so he's

745
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:39.480
almost trying to make it sound like he was really

746
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:43.639
being a morally good person to try to get everyone

747
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:44.199
to hate him.

748
00:39:44.679 --> 00:39:47.159
That's the thing with all of his lies, they all

749
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:53.960
made him paint himself in like a beneficial light, right.

750
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:55.960
Yeah, make him look like he's some kind of hero.

751
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:59.559
For I stole money, but it was to buy Mary

752
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:02.760
Jane's wedding ring, or I counterfeited checks, but that was

753
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:05.239
just so I could pay everyone else what I owed

754
00:40:05.239 --> 00:40:08.400
them and feed my kids. Like there was always, you know,

755
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:09.159
an excuse.

756
00:40:09.679 --> 00:40:11.400
A horrible, horrible, horrible man.

757
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:14.559
He ended the letter and told Pinkel that he was

758
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:17.599
ready to tell him the real story. Now. Pinkl again

759
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.159
took the bait, and another series of letters between the

760
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:23.360
two began. Logo claimed that he'd driven himself back to

761
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:26.519
work on the afternoon of December seventeenth. He worked the

762
00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:29.000
two to eleven shift at fred Meyer that day. No

763
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:32.239
one recalled him acting unusual. When he returned to the condo,

764
00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:34.960
he found Mary Jane holding a pillow over Madison's face.

765
00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:38.199
He became enraged and admitted that he killed Mary, Jane,

766
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:40.960
and then Madison and dumped their bodies into the bay.

767
00:40:41.800 --> 00:40:44.800
He then took a sleepy Zach and Sadie for a

768
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:48.760
drive before he decided to end their lives. Longo said

769
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:50.719
he threw them over the bridge to their desks with

770
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:53.320
pillowcases tied with rocks to their bodies.

771
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:55.920
So what he's saying there is that they were alive

772
00:40:56.199 --> 00:40:57.880
when he threw them into the water.

773
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:00.760
I think so if you remember back to part one,

774
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:07.239
like the autopsies of Zach especially looked Christine like there

775
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.239
was no, you know, nothing wrong with his body. There

776
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:13.719
was no, you know, evidence of strangulation. Every time we

777
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:17.320
have a case about strangulation, not to be morbid, but

778
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:20.000
I just remember that it takes three to four minutes

779
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:23.280
to end someone's life by strangulation. And I can't imagine

780
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:26.519
looking into a person's eyes that you love, right and

781
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:28.719
you know, seeing the life go out of their eyes,

782
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.760
and you know, that's just such a decision.

783
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:34.760
Yeah, it really is. It's just so horrible to even

784
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.880
think about. And then this new story he's he's still

785
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:44.119
accusing Mary Jane of doing something of trying to smother Madison, right, which.

786
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.840
Is clearly should not have done it. And you know,

787
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.440
and what would be the point of her doing it

788
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.239
at that point, Like he would walk in the room

789
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:56.960
after you know, he was gone the whole day. And

790
00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:01.280
it's just I don't know, just he just enjoyed that

791
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.360
chess match with Finkel and just going back and forth,

792
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:09.159
and he just I think he liked the attention. No

793
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:11.440
one else was just a sick man.

794
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:12.400
Yeah.

795
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:16.119
Well, the rest in peace to Marry Jane, Zachary, Sadian, Madison.

796
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:17.719
You all deserve so much better.

797
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:18.559
Oh for sure.

798
00:42:19.239 --> 00:42:21.599
They are all buried together in ann Arbor at the

799
00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:27.039
Bethlehem Cemetery. What do you think Christian Longo's motive was.

800
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.760
I mean, I think for someone like him, everything goes

801
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:35.920
back to self preservation and doing whatever is best for him.

802
00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:39.159
And I think, you know, he got himself in a

803
00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:42.440
bad situation financially with all his crimes, and he was

804
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.719
desperate for some way out and he probably figured by

805
00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:52.480
doing this, he you know, could potentially run away and

806
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.400
be free, live living in Mexico or wherever it was,

807
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:57.400
and could start a new life.

808
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:00.119
I don't think I mentioned this, but he said that

809
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:03.559
he went to Mexico and he was planning on coming back.

810
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:06.199
Yeah, right, I don't think I believe that, but.

811
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:07.719
I mean I don't. I don't believe anything.

812
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:10.239
No, I don't believe anything he says either. What do

813
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:11.239
you think was his motive?

814
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:17.360
I think he was excessively prideful. I think that he

815
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:22.079
thought that he was special and that he deserved the success.

816
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.440
And when he didn't have that success and he saw

817
00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:29.639
himself reflected back in his family's eyes, that he was

818
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.239
a failure and he couldn't stand to see himself in

819
00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:36.400
that way. And Christmas was coming, and I think there

820
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:37.880
was no way that he was going to be able

821
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:41.119
to provide, you know, the Christmas that he wanted to

822
00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:43.159
provide for his family. I'm not I don't want to

823
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:46.360
make him sound like a good person, but that was

824
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:47.000
just you know.

825
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:50.440
Right, But in his mind, if he couldn't, you know, yeah,

826
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:54.280
be that person, then yes, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

827
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:58.559
But it's so horrible that he could have just left.

828
00:43:58.639 --> 00:44:00.840
He could have he could have flown off to Mexico,

829
00:44:01.239 --> 00:44:03.320
he could have left his family, and he could have

830
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:04.920
you know, it's.

831
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:06.960
So true in all these cases that we talk about.

832
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:10.039
It's like, yeah, there's got to be a better alternative

833
00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:13.239
than doing what you did. You know, Yeah, I.

834
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:17.079
Mean to send Mary Jane back to live with her

835
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:20.039
family or they would have gladly picked her up and

836
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:25.440
helped her. And it's so tragic that that these narcissists

837
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:29.320
think that it's easier to end someone's life, right admit

838
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:33.039
any defeat. It's hard to know which version of his

839
00:44:33.159 --> 00:44:36.760
story to talk about, like which one, because you know,

840
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:42.079
they shifted so much. But in one version of his story,

841
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.400
he killed Madison, like Madison was still breathing, Like, why

842
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:46.960
would he have admitted to that?

843
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:50.039
I think, well, I think that he kind of had

844
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:52.519
to because of where the bodies were found. So if

845
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.360
he admitted to killing Mary Jane, he would have had

846
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:58.000
to admitted to killing Madison as well, because their bodies

847
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.119
were found in the same place in such a similar manner. Right,

848
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:05.679
So he came up with a fairly convoluted story to

849
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:08.760
try to explain, and he made it sound like killing

850
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:12.119
Madison was a mercy killing almost right, like oh, she was,

851
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.400
you know, struggling to breathe, and so he kind of

852
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:17.920
makes it sound like he is putting her out of

853
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:20.320
her misery to make himself again kind of look like

854
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:22.280
a good guy or yeah, better.

855
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.440
That's likely true. If Zachary would not have been found

856
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:30.400
floating on the surface of the water, would Christian Longo

857
00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:31.559
be a free man today?

858
00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:34.159
Oh gosh, I sure would hope not.

859
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.519
The other like Sad's body was pretty weighted down, and

860
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:41.280
the other found suitcases, they might not have found them

861
00:45:41.320 --> 00:45:42.480
for you know, years.

862
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:44.280
Yeah, I mean, it's a good it's a really good

863
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:48.119
point and a good question, and thankfully we'll never know.

864
00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:50.960
But yeah, he would have. I'm sure they would have

865
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:53.599
figured it out that he was on the run and

866
00:45:53.760 --> 00:45:56.639
that the family had disappeared, but it could have taken

867
00:45:56.679 --> 00:45:58.519
them a long time to figure that out. And by

868
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.000
the time they did, who knows where.

869
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:04.880
He found, you know, definitely would have been harder to prove.

870
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:08.800
What do you think Longo would be doing today if

871
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:11.360
he weren't in prison, Like I mean, if if he

872
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:14.039
hadn't killed his family, I mean, who.

873
00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:16.800
Knows, he'd be on to his next whatever the next

874
00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:20.480
scam was, and trying to you know, start some business

875
00:46:20.559 --> 00:46:22.559
and cheating people out of money.

876
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:26.880
I think what if his business would have been successful? Well,

877
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.679
I think people on the precipice of being successful.

878
00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:31.480
Yeah, but I think people like that even if his

879
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:35.039
business had been successful, he didn't know how to manage

880
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.800
his money. He still would have been spending more than

881
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.320
he was making. Even if he was making a lot

882
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:43.920
of money, I think he was did not make smart decisions,

883
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:46.360
so he would have he would have still ended up

884
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:48.360
in the same sort of trouble one way or another.

885
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:50.519
I think that's true.

886
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:53.360
He just seemed like, like looking at him, he just

887
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:55.920
looks like, you know, just a normal guy, and you

888
00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:57.800
wouldn't I guess that's the true of so many of

889
00:46:57.840 --> 00:46:58.360
these guys.

890
00:46:58.440 --> 00:46:59.440
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

891
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:03.719
Do you see the parallels between him and Chris Watts especially?

892
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:07.239
Oh yeah, especially with Chris Watts. And I was wondering, like,

893
00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:11.199
why do you think the Chris Watts case got so

894
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:15.159
much more attention like this case he's not that well

895
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:18.400
known Christian Longo, I mean, I know he's somewhat well known,

896
00:47:18.440 --> 00:47:19.440
but compared to Chris.

897
00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:22.360
Watts, It's like I was surprised when doing the research

898
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:24.880
for this case that there is there are fewer podcasts

899
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:29.079
on it and less information. I think one of the

900
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:32.119
reasons that the Watts case is as big as it

901
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:34.800
is is because of the timing of it. First of all,

902
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:38.840
I mean it happened only you know, five six years ago, right,

903
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:44.639
and also Shenan's Facebook presence, right, because for me personally,

904
00:47:44.679 --> 00:47:47.159
like researching that case, I mean I felt like I knew.

905
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:49.360
I felt like I knew the girls, like you could

906
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:51.719
see them and hear them, and I mean it was,

907
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:53.920
you know, just so devastating.

908
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.440
Yeah, I'm sure that's right. And also maybe a little

909
00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:59.199
bit of it too, is the the bodycam footage of

910
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.840
Chris on the that they yeah, came to the department.

911
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:04.239
I think that was really like I think a lot

912
00:48:04.239 --> 00:48:07.320
of people that's burned into their brains for sure.

913
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:10.000
Yeah, I mean it's and it's so uncomfortable m hm.

914
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:14.199
And just oh yeah, just my blood pressure is rising

915
00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:15.119
just thinking about him.

916
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:16.599
Yeah.

917
00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:20.840
Longo spends his days exercising, watching TV, and voraciously reading.

918
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:24.280
The first book he finished after moving to the penitentiary

919
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:27.920
was Stephen King's The Green Mile about life on death row.

920
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:31.480
When he's allowed out of his cell, he works as

921
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:34.800
a janitor. In the three months following his death sentence,

922
00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:39.000
he received two marriage proposals. He corresponds with his parents

923
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:42.199
and brother. He says that their relationship is stronger than ever.

924
00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:47.119
He's taken up the cause of organ donation. He founded

925
00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:52.639
Gifts of anatomical Value for everyone or gave. He believes

926
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:56.960
that inmates should not be excluded from organ donation. Longo

927
00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.960
offered his kidney to a dying man who refused the donation.

928
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:05.039
Oh, interesting, would you accept his kidney? I probably would

929
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:05.840
if you have.

930
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:09.320
Yeah, just such a weird cause to take up.

931
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:11.519
That is a very strange cause I'm a little surprised

932
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:14.760
that he's corresponding with his parents too, because they kind

933
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:18.800
of wrote him off, like after he did the like

934
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:22.000
before he killed his family, they had kind of written

935
00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:24.440
him off, right, So it's kind of strange that now

936
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:27.400
they're willing to be in touch with him and chat

937
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:27.880
with time.

938
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:30.880
Heals a lot of wounds. I don't know how you've

939
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.119
come on from that. Yeah, but who knows what lies

940
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.360
he's spewing to them, And you know they are religious people.

941
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:41.000
Maybe you know they think that he's seen the light,

942
00:49:41.199 --> 00:49:44.559
or he's pretending to anyway. Yeah, So he did get

943
00:49:44.599 --> 00:49:49.679
in trouble in prison for writing a fifteen He writes

944
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:53.280
so like such long things. He wrote a fifteen page

945
00:49:53.320 --> 00:49:58.199
love letter to an inmate named Jennifer. The letter began quote,

946
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:02.880
dear sendor rita cotton candy and it went on from there.

947
00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:08.679
She told on him and she got off on a

948
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:13.320
drug charge. Because she told on him, the prosecutor used

949
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:17.000
a letter to obtain a search warrant to his cell,

950
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:23.559
where they found handwritten documents essentially admitting that he killed

951
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:24.199
his family.

952
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:25.079
Oh wow.

953
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.199
News reports at the time said that they contained details

954
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:30.760
of the murders of Mary, Jane and Madison.

955
00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:31.760
Interesting.

956
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:36.440
Sometime, I think it was around twenty eleven, he requested

957
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:41.360
to marry someone and that request was denied. When a

958
00:50:41.400 --> 00:50:44.079
reporter asked him about it, he said it was a prank,

959
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:47.159
he said, to prove that the Department of Corrections routinely

960
00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:49.280
denies his requests.

961
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:52.000
Okay, so I.

962
00:50:51.840 --> 00:50:55.039
Can't find any information about him in the last ten years.

963
00:50:55.079 --> 00:50:57.719
But it really did seem like he wanted to get married.

964
00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:00.760
He was engaged to a woman with two children, so

965
00:51:01.480 --> 00:51:04.159
I mean, maybe he is married, but I couldn't find

966
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:09.679
anything out about that. In another letter obtained by Katu News,

967
00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:13.159
Longa wrote a woman that he may have been romantically

968
00:51:13.400 --> 00:51:16.000
involved with quote I got up on the stand and

969
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:19.440
essentially blamed my wife for everything. I was still stuck

970
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:21.920
in a phase where I couldn't fathom the thought of

971
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.719
me being capable of doing what I was convicted of.

972
00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:29.320
End quote. Chris said he dreams of his children. Usually

973
00:51:29.360 --> 00:51:32.039
he dreams about the girls and they're playing, but his

974
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:35.760
son is screaming, which is really sad. But he does

975
00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:39.320
not dream about Mary Jane. He said. He thinks that's

976
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:43.320
because he had detached himself from her in the last

977
00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:44.519
years of their marriage.

978
00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:45.280
Interesting.

979
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:49.480
Michael Thinkle's book about his relationship with Chris Longo, True

980
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:53.679
Story Murder Memoir Mia Koppa, was published in two thousand

981
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:57.440
and five. In twenty fifteen, James Franco and Jonah Hill

982
00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:01.199
starred in True Story, based on his book. Not a

983
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:04.960
big fan of either one of those guys. We watched

984
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:07.280
the movie, Yeah, did not really, I mean we watched

985
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:08.119
it probably.

986
00:52:07.960 --> 00:52:10.599
I don't remember it very well, but yeah.

987
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:14.039
I remember not loving it. Franco played Kristian Longo and

988
00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.760
Jonah Hill played Michael Finkel. The casting of Franco was

989
00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:21.119
perhaps generous, while Jonah Hill was likely an insult to

990
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:24.199
Michael Finkel. Although I found and asked me anything where

991
00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:27.119
he said he was honored to be played by him.

992
00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:30.599
That was several years ago. Since then, Jonah Hill has

993
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:33.239
a little has had a little fall from grace, do

994
00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:35.760
you know what I'm talking about? Not really just kind

995
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:41.559
of some abusive messages with an ex girlfriend. Franco has

996
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:45.320
also been accused of some not so great things too.

997
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:48.760
But anyway, I remember the when we watched the movie.

998
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:51.679
The movie was a lot about the relationship between these

999
00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:55.840
two men and not as much about Christian Longo and

1000
00:52:56.079 --> 00:52:59.039
what led him to murder his family. And I wish

1001
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.280
that it would have foken more on that, where.

1002
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:03.199
The book book was kind of about both, right it

1003
00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:03.960
sort of.

1004
00:53:04.079 --> 00:53:06.519
Yeah, the book was I would say excellent. I think

1005
00:53:06.519 --> 00:53:09.639
he did a really good job. My one critique about

1006
00:53:09.679 --> 00:53:12.800
the book would be that he might have painted Longo

1007
00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:15.440
and too positive of a light, like he made him

1008
00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:19.000
seem like and I think this is probably the dichotomy

1009
00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:24.880
that is Christian Longo like affable and you know, he

1010
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:28.199
said that he gave him advice like about his relationship,

1011
00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:32.880
right and things like that, so until the trial and

1012
00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:36.039
makes him seem like maybe a redeemable character, where once

1013
00:53:36.039 --> 00:53:39.480
you get to the trial you realize he's yeah, not

1014
00:53:39.920 --> 00:53:40.519
he's horrible.

1015
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:42.880
I remember that about the book, and I remember feeling

1016
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:46.039
having kind of mixed feelings about Michael Finkel because he's

1017
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:48.960
sort of, I don't know, it's sort of icky like

1018
00:53:49.000 --> 00:53:51.039
he It kind of felt like they were using each other.

1019
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:54.480
Oh, definitely, that's interesting that you have that takeaway, because

1020
00:53:54.960 --> 00:53:57.440
that's how I felt reading it too, Like you just

1021
00:53:57.480 --> 00:54:00.920
felt like Finkel was kind of, oh, I don't know,

1022
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:06.599
like the relationshipise Ak was obviously he was using his

1023
00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:11.000
power in a way to get the story, and it

1024
00:54:11.079 --> 00:54:13.599
just felt like cues. But then it seemed like he

1025
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.719
did care about him.

1026
00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:17.239
You mean it seemed like Finkel cared about Longo.

1027
00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:19.960
Yeah. I think he wanted to believe he was something,

1028
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.639
but then he found out that he really was something else.

1029
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:23.000
Right.

1030
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:26.280
Pinkel has gone on to write two of more best

1031
00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:29.760
selling books, The Stranger in the Woods, the Extraordinary Story

1032
00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:33.599
of the Last True Hermit in twenty seventeen, and The

1033
00:54:33.760 --> 00:54:36.000
Art Thief, a true story of love, crime and a

1034
00:54:36.079 --> 00:54:38.559
Dangerous Obsession from twenty twenty three.

1035
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:41.719
And those are both nonfiction books. Yes, interesting.

1036
00:54:41.920 --> 00:54:44.719
Michael Finkle is married to Jill, the woman Chris Longo

1037
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:47.639
told him to marry. They have three children and divide

1038
00:54:47.679 --> 00:54:51.519
their time between northern Utah and the south of France.

1039
00:54:52.079 --> 00:54:54.280
So he must be doing pretty well for himself.

1040
00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:55.079
I guess so.

1041
00:54:55.159 --> 00:54:59.119
But just a really interesting story. And again, the timing

1042
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:05.079
is so serendipitous. I don't if if Finkel hadn't been

1043
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:07.719
fired from The New York Times, I wonder if this

1044
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:09.280
would have had a different trajectory.

1045
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:12.199
Yeah, and if or if the whole thing had never happened, like,

1046
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:16.159
would Finkel have been able to revive his career. I mean,

1047
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:18.320
it sounds like he was able to revive his career

1048
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:21.679
and landed on his feet, But if Christian Longo hadn't

1049
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:24.559
come along at all, would have been able to.

1050
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:27.400
During the early two thousands, there were several cases that

1051
00:55:27.440 --> 00:55:31.079
were similar. Yeah, several journalists I think I can't remember

1052
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:33.000
the names off the top of my head, but there

1053
00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:35.760
was remember the James Fry the Oprah book Club. I

1054
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:38.960
don't remember the name of that book either, But there

1055
00:55:39.000 --> 00:55:40.719
were several others.

1056
00:55:40.760 --> 00:55:42.480
There were a lot of scandals. There were people were

1057
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:45.960
making up characters. They're making up an amalgamation of characters.

1058
00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:49.480
Yeah. I wondered journalism because of the Internet, maybe got

1059
00:55:49.480 --> 00:55:54.440
a little easier to disprove people's claims. Maybe it might

1060
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:58.280
be unfair to compare Michael Finkel and Chris Longo, but

1061
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:01.480
they both told lies. And it's interesting to see how

1062
00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:05.480
finkl redeemed himself and long ago he just continued on

1063
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:09.320
this downwards spy spiral and just told lie after lie

1064
00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:11.840
after light and he definitely is where he needs to be,

1065
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.719
in prison and we'll never see the light of day again.

1066
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:25.159
Glad that such a sad story. Ye, so summer is

1067
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:30.239
over Fall really like summer being over at like fall.

1068
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:32.280
I know it is sad when the days start getting shorter,

1069
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:36.280
mornings are a little cooler, and yeah, you really you

1070
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.159
really don't like winter, So I think you start getting

1071
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:42.280
like winter anxiety and the flaw. But I really love fall.

1072
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:46.199
I don't love the heat. I'm excited.

1073
00:56:46.400 --> 00:56:49.280
I am looking forward to some cooler days and some

1074
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:53.239
nice colors and all that. Some soup, yeah, some tea.

1075
00:56:54.079 --> 00:56:57.119
So this is basically a sports podcast where we talk

1076
00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:58.360
about true crime once.

1077
00:56:58.280 --> 00:56:59.639
In a while during football season.

1078
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:01.559
It's well, that's what I was just going to give

1079
00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:07.320
you another opportunity to predict the Lions. A ridiculous, a

1080
00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:10.639
ridiculous faalse news headline about.

1081
00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:13.079
The Sports Illustrated is picking the Lions.

1082
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.760
You can't trust the Sports Illustrated. You just can't.

1083
00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:19.519
I trust them pretty much, well not normally.

1084
00:57:20.920 --> 00:57:23.079
So do you think do you think it's a possibility.

1085
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:25.760
Oh, I think it's a very very good possibility. But

1086
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:29.360
the thing with NFL football is you can't. It's really

1087
00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:33.519
hard to predict because all teams are like very close.

1088
00:57:33.639 --> 00:57:36.920
There's like parody in the NFL. So even though on

1089
00:57:36.960 --> 00:57:40.079
paper the Lions seem like they have a very good

1090
00:57:40.159 --> 00:57:42.960
chance of winning the Super Bowl, anything could happen, a

1091
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:45.960
key player gets injured. I mean, it's just so hard

1092
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:47.920
to predict. But I think they have a very very.

1093
00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:51.119
Good You just lit light right up when you're talking

1094
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.119
about I think you really do need a sports podcast.

1095
00:57:55.119 --> 00:57:57.239
I know so many people that are so much more

1096
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:01.119
knowledgeable about sports than I am. I love football, I

1097
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:04.599
love baseball, but I'm not that like I'm knowledgeable about

1098
00:58:04.639 --> 00:58:07.880
the game, but I don't follow the players. I don't

1099
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:08.360
follow that.

1100
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:09.639
Yeah, it's a full time job.

1101
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:11.800
It really is. I know people who are like obsessive

1102
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:12.280
about that.

1103
00:58:12.400 --> 00:58:15.360
Ravo is like my dream Cord Hast would be doing

1104
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:19.000
Ravo like a Bravo show kind of thing, and that's

1105
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:21.280
a lot of work too. There's a lot of players.

1106
00:58:21.320 --> 00:58:23.440
For me that would be like the Beatles, Like I

1107
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:25.960
could do a podcast about the Beatles, because you would

1108
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:27.639
do that. Well, I don't know if I would, but

1109
00:58:28.039 --> 00:58:31.119
I'm just saying, well, the only Yeah, that's the only

1110
00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:33.440
topic that I've like, you know, from the time I

1111
00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:37.199
was a child, I've been pretty obsessed with and I

1112
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:38.199
know a fair.

1113
00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:41.800
Amount about I do a podcast about Cheetos maybe She's

1114
00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:45.559
flavored snacks. Yeah, No, I don't feel knowledgeable about anything.

1115
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:48.199
Well, Bravo, I mean you just said I think you could.

1116
00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:51.159
Not well, like similar to you. I mean I don't

1117
00:58:51.159 --> 00:58:54.760
know all the players. Yeah, I don't know all their playbooks.

1118
00:58:54.440 --> 00:58:57.079
Even with like the Beatles. Like when I was young,

1119
00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:59.159
I would have told you I know as much about

1120
00:58:59.199 --> 00:59:02.320
the Beatles as any human being on the planet. And

1121
00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:05.079
now I look like I'm on all these different subreddits

1122
00:59:05.079 --> 00:59:07.360
about the Beetles and stuff, and I'm learning new things

1123
00:59:07.400 --> 00:59:09.679
every day. I'm like, oh, I never knew that that's interesting,

1124
00:59:09.800 --> 00:59:11.719
and so it's crazy.

1125
00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:14.880
Yeah, you do know a lot though, So I'm just

1126
00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:16.719
looking at my phone because a lot of times like

1127
00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:20.480
I'm reading something and I write notes, and I have

1128
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:23.239
notes all over like on different notes, apps and whatever,

1129
00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:26.119
and a lot of times my notes are like laceration

1130
00:59:26.320 --> 00:59:29.960
to the back of his skull, dent and paint scratches,

1131
00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:33.840
microscopic pieces of plast Oh, I know what case that is? Okay,

1132
00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:35.960
but I was like, I have no idea what case

1133
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:36.280
that is.

1134
00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:39.559
But bottom line, if either of us are ever found dead,

1135
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:41.400
the other one is going to be in big trouble

1136
00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:43.119
because they're always going to be able to find something

1137
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:44.239
on our phones.

1138
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:46.960
That well, what case was that? First of all, I

1139
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:52.400
don't know if that was Karen the microscopic piece of Yet, No,

1140
00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:54.639
you're going to be off free because they're going to

1141
00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:56.800
play those times. And I've said it more than once

1142
00:59:56.840 --> 01:00:01.559
when I'm like, rich would never hurt me, and I

1143
01:00:01.599 --> 01:00:03.639
love you and I think you're great, and I really

1144
01:00:03.639 --> 01:00:07.199
can't even I should say right now, yeah, you're capable

1145
01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:08.440
of it, but I don't really think you are.

1146
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:10.519
Yeah, so I don't think you are either. I think

1147
01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:16.079
you're I don't know. Oh, be careful what you say.

1148
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:19.159
No, of course I wouldn't do that. We shouldn't joke

1149
01:00:19.199 --> 01:00:20.000
about it, really.

1150
01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:23.159
No, we really shouldn't well. As always, thank you all

1151
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:25.800
for listening. We appreciate each and every one of you.

1152
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:30.800
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media,

1153
01:00:30.920 --> 01:00:34.880
or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com,

1154
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:39.280
and please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill.

1155
01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:42.599
We have one tier five dollars a month for early

1156
01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:46.400
ad free access and a monthly bonus episode, cookie recipe

1157
01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:49.239
and a cookie recipe Until next time.

1158
01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:51.079
I Don't Kill your husband and Don't.

1159
01:00:50.960 --> 01:01:00.840
Kill your wife to.

1160
01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:39.320
The topick tot