MaryJane and Christian Longo - Part 2

0:00 Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's. That some days you'll feel like killing your. Wife, and some days you'll feel like killing your husband. Welcome to Love, Mary Kill, Hello Rich, Hello Tina. How are you? I'm fine? How are you? I'm spectacular? Good dear. I'm glad you came back for part two. Oh did I have a choice? No? Remember when I was sick a couple of weeks ago and I was like, just record on your own and you were like no. I think they would have been really interesting to see how people felt.

0:48 That everybody would have been sad. I think it would have been great and I would have actually been able to listen to that episode. I would have had the banter with myself and that just wouldn't work very well. I don't think maybe it would be even better. Yeah, we tried to get our daughter. Did maybe step in? She said no, thank you. You know, she did such a nice job when you did the Mother's Day episode she did. I thought she was fabulous and I thought. She kind of enjoyed it, but. Maybe yeah, she was like, no, I am not going to do it. Yeah, but then she was like, well, if you really feel she said she could be bribed, and I asked her to consider what type of bribe she would require. But then you said you were going to be a trooper and you did it.

1:30 Maybe you should ask her for a Father's Day because that was kind of like her Mother's Day gift to me. Yes, So that was some game. Sure was. I can't believe Michigan won by eighty four points. That was crazy. I think you ever did it. Well, we're back and it's just hours later from when we recorded part one, so. We've only got like two hours until game time, so we really need to kind of get this movie. Game day crunch. Yeah, all right, I'll do my best. Okay. So a listener had asked us to do a Starburst challenge a while back, and I totally forgot to do it, and today we didn't really I didn't really have another snack.

2:12 I didn't have one snack let alone too, So I decided we could do the Star Wars challenge. There's a TikTok challenge that I think it's like you eat starburs and then you make out or something. Okay, so we can do that if you want, but I think you have to guess the flavor. But I'm still a little sick. Okay, so maybe you know, okay, don't. Want to go too deep, but I'm not. How do you want to do this? Like I have four star Wars and I have four so we're going to try to guess the flavor you try, then we're going to category or numerate, like which ones we like best? Okay, So does that sound good? So the reason this came about was like, I don't think that I like the pink starburst. I think I like the yellow, and a lot of people don't like the yellow starmers, so that's why this.

3:03 I'm not a big fan of the yellow, so. Okay, because I tend to like lemon flavored things. So all right, do you want to close your eyes? And I'm not sure we should do this. I'll give you one and then you can give me one, okay, okay, all right, ready, yep, okay, we'll be right back. Okay, that was hard. I thought it would be easy, and I have no idea what any of them were. I am just gonna guess that you gave me red, pink, yellow, and orange in that order. Red, pink, yellow, and orange. You got zero crup.

3:45 Okay, I'm not surprised. All right, I'm gonna guess you gave me yellow, pink, red, and orange. Wait, what did you say? Yellow, pink, red, and orange? You got too, right, You've got pink and orange? Right, okay, did you have a favorite flavor? Well, seeing as I didn't know when any of them were, really, I I don't I like. I guess I like the cherry ones. But so the cherry red, okay, I would the first one I thought maybe was the one I liked the best. The first one that I gave you was strawberry pink. Yeah, okay, all right. Well, starbursts are great, bottom line.

4:28 They are good. But I really thought that I would be able to at least say, oh, this is the yellow one. Can we do the same with skittles? Maybe another time? Sure, we can make skittles artwork. Remember when we did that with the kids when yeah at all? Yeah, actually they weren't that little. I think it was a few years ago. But like, you make a rainbow or something, and was. It alcohol alcohol? Didn't you like? Put alcohol like on the plate and then put the skittles and then they blood the colors into a rainbow or was it just water? I don't remember. Okay, Well, Starburst are yummy. I am old enough to remember a green Starburst. Oh I forgot about green Starburst. Yeah. Did you eat Starburst when you were a kid.

5:09 Not really. It was always more of a chocolate guy. You know me. Yeah, I Star Wars start. They're good though, but yeah, I guess I'll blame it on my post COVID taste bloods. I don't know that was that was not a good show. But they really do taste quite similarly. They really do. I think you have to know what you're putting in your mouth. Mm hmm. Anyway, thank you for participating in the Star Wars. Thanks for letting me win. Oh was it a contest? It's always a contest to us, you know that. No, I don't know that. I think you are very competitive. You say you are not competitive, but you really are. Okay, you have to you can't just say that. Well, give me an example. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.

5:50 Well, thank you for making my point. I mean, I like to win a game, but I don't know it's hard with you because don't get a big head. But you're you're good at a lot of everything. You're good at a lot of things. I'm good at a lot of things. To those things, good much many things, very many things. All right, Well, should we get to part two? We have a lot to cover today. Let's do that. Today's episode, while not graphic, does contain violence against women and children, so please listen with care. Well. Thank you all for bearing with us last week's episode. I hope that the ann Arbor references weren't annoying to anyone, but that was fun for us to be able to visualize the actual places it really is where the crime occurred. Yea, and hang in there with me. I'm still my voice is still not great. I'm still coughing a lot, and I know you've got some respiratory stuff going on too.

6:49 So we apologize for the quality of our voices. We're doing the best we can do. You want to give us a quick summary that I have wrote in advance. I would happy to read the quick summary that you wrote. So Christian Longo, who was nineteen at the time he married Mary Jane, who was twenty six, in nineteen ninety three in ann Arbor Michigan. They had three children in rapid succession, Zachary, Sadie, and Madison. Chris was the sole breadwinner in the family and he had a business, Final Touch Construction cleaning, but the business began to fail because he wasn't getting paid by the different contractors and the cash flow wasn't working, and he was kind of spending money on things that maybe weren't super smart, saying.

7:37 He didn't need a boat and two jet skis exactly. So he's struggled again, like where was he taking them? I mean, there's a lot of lakes around here. But he was struggling to keep the family afloat, and he soon turned to crime to make ends meet, so doing things like writing counterfeit checks and forging a driver's license for somebody and then driving a car off the lot. So the family was in really bad shape financially. They had credit cards maxed out, they had alienated all their friends and family because of Chris lying and deceiving them, so they decided to head to the Oregon Coast for a fresh start, but soon Chris and Mary Jane ran out of money and options. On December nineteenth, twenty two thousand and two, the body of Zachary Longo, who was four, was found floating in the water. Soon after that, his sister's body was found in the same waters, and then later two suitcases were found containing the bodies of Mary, Jane and Madison. I think those were found in the pond behind the townhouse where they lived.

8:39 I think it was a bay that led to the ocean, not a pond. Gotcha. Just days after all the bodies were found, Christian Longo fled the country to go to Cancun, Mexico, and I think that's where we left off. When he arrived in Cancun, Chris was so confident that he'd evaded law enforcement that he didn't bother to alter his appearance. He found a ten dollars a night hostile and lived as cheaply as he could, cooking food in the hostel's kitchen. He quickly made friends with the other people at the hostel, drinking, smoking, pod and skinny dipping with them. He was propositioned by several women, but Longo didn't indulge. He said he was grieving his wife and children.

9:20 Longo was essentially a conservative man and was turned off by the drug and alcohol abuse. In Mexico. I remember this version of the story is from Chris's perspective. I think some of this is probably BS. Chris created a new identity in Cancun, well not a new identity, but rather he borrowed someone else's identity. He began introducing himself as a journalist from the New York Times, Michael Finkel. Christian had read Finkel's work and followed his career for years, beginning with Skiing magazine. He thought that posing as a travel reporter on assignment would help him blend in with the locals, and he was right for the most part. Finkel later told Forty eight Hours quote, he did a better job of being Michael Finkel than I ever did of being Michael Finkel.

10:07 That's kind of weird, though, that you would pose as someone like a well known figure. Like I don't think he was super well known. Yeah, I know, not super well known, but just somebody who had a name. It just seems like not a great idea, but I guess it worked for him for a while. Well, remember that he used to deliver the newspaper, specifically the New York Times. So I think he, you know, was a smart guy, and he did like to read the newspaper. So disgusted by the debauchery and hedonism he witnessed in Cancun, Chris began seeking out comer friendships. He was happy to meet an older British couple who were retired teachers. While at dinner one night, the man asked him how he chose in journalism as a career. Christian told him that he'd been pursuing a degree in business at the University of Michigan when he'd realized that he didn't want a desk job, and despite his dislike of writing, he'd settled on journalism so he could travel and see the world. The couple expressed interest in sharing some of their travel stories with him for a possible article. On the spot, Chris gave them a fake email address, Mfinkel at New York Times dot com. A couple of weeks into his new life, he met a German woman different from any woman he'd ever encountered. Yanina Frank had pink hair, tattoos, a pierced tongue and eyebrow. She'd come to photograph the Mayan Ruins. She was trying to carve out a career as a professional photographer. Longo, intrigued with a woman, told her that he was a journalist with the New York Times and maybe they could work together. She couldn't believe

11:39 her luck. Imagine you're this woman who wants to make it to the photographer and he's like, oh, with the New York Times. Yeah. Yeah. Chris told Yanina that he was tired of the rock a scene in can Kuhn, and they set off for Tulum together about sixty miles south of canon Kuhn, But in reality, Longo was asked to leave the youth hostel after other guests reported having money stolen, and Longo was the suspect. He and Yanina rented a spartan grass hut near the beach. Longo had convinced himself that by using Finkel's byline, maybe he and Yanina could actually get an article published. I mean, it's super easy to get an article published by the Generic Times. They just take eyes. Yeah.

12:25 He claimed that he had no intent of having a sexual relationship with Yanina, but his ambitions quickly lowered once they were sharing a bed. They did work on the article together for several days. Trapsing through the jungle exploring, they climbed the Pyramids and snorkeled in the ocean. These last moments of freedom are happy memories for Longo. He had deluded himself enough to believe that he had a future. Makes me really angry that he had any happy memories after what he did to his family. And it is crazy, like less than two weeks after his family. Did, he's galvanning around like getting this woman. He said. He was sad though. On the night of January thirteenth, Chris and Yuanina were drinking and smoking weed in a cabana at a beach resort with some new friends. Suddenly, six FBI agents stormed into the small dwelling while six more surrounded the hut.

13:16 They cuffed Longo and dragged him through the sand. Shaken, he confirmed his identity to the officers and left without incident. On January eleventh, two thousand and two, a Canadian woman who had just returned from Cancun saw Longo on the FBI's ten most Wanted list and tip them off. She had met him twice. The first time he introduced himself is Brad, the next time is Mike, which set off alarms for her. A tour guide in Tuloom also called in a sighting. Longo had one of the shortestants on the FBI's most wanted list. Only two days Longo agreed to voluntary return to the United States. He opted not to spend time in a Mexican jail. He was not interviewed or interrogated until he was back in the United States.

14:02 He arrived in Houston and spent the night in the Harris County Jail under suicide watch before flying to Portland the next morning. While on the plane, the FBI agent Clegg asked Longo why he'd killed his family. He answered, without hesitation, quote, I sent them to a better place. Yeah. This wasn't a formal interview, so the statement couldn't be considered a confession. At eight pm on Tuesday, January fifteenth, two thousand and two, Longo, accompanied by two officers, landed in Portland, Oregon. He was driven to the Lincoln County Jail in Newport, two hours away. Around midnight, he was taken into an interrogation room in an attempt to get a confession. He sobbed when the detectives asked him about his family. He seemed sincerely distraught, but he refused to accept responsibility for their deaths. His words were odd. When asked for his confession, he said quote, I'm going to wait, and he never talked to the police again. January twenty third, two thousand and two, Dia Bernice Barrett announced her intention to seek the death penalty against Christian Longo. His bail was set at two point five million dollars. It was his twenty eighth birthday. Christian quickly realized that he had no support from friends, family, or the public. He received zero letters of support. His own parents thought he was guilty.

15:22 Christian Longo's most ardent support and friendship came from an unlikely source, the man whose identity he had stolen disgraced to New York Times reporter Michael Finkel. The author of the book true story murder Memoir Mia Coppa by Michael Finkel, has an intriguing story of his own. He started his career writing for Skiing magazine, Sports Illustrated, and National Geographic Adventure, but had ascended to his dream job at the New York Times magazine before an embarrassing incident in February two thousand and two that led to his firing and public fall from grace. Finkel whose friends and family had been he'd become self important with an inflated ego after his sudden career success embellished a story he wrote about cocoa bean harvesting. He spent several weeks in the Ivory Coast researching a story. There are an estimated six hundred thousand cocoa bean plantations there, as many as ninety percent were thought to use slavery for maintaining and harvesting crops. That's a huge number, isn't it.

16:25 It is a huge number. Finkel investigated a claim that children as young as nine were used for slave labor and whipped daily, when in fact they were not. Most of the boys were actually older teens and were not victims of slavery but extreme poverty. Finkel made the distinction and is careful to explain that if people are less inclined to buy their cocoa beans under the belief that the plantations are exploiting child laborers, their situation will worsen. The laborers don't know what chocolate is, They only know the cocoa bean. Can you imagine? No. When Finkel realized the slavery angle to his story wasn't viable, his editor implored him to find a new angle to the story. The result was a boy named Yusuf Malay, who wasn't completely Michael's creation, but an amalgamation of the boys and young men he'd met on his trip to the Ivory Coast, a completely unacceptable practice for a journalist, and quite problematically, Yusef Malay was a real boy who he'd interviewed. The photographer who'd accompanied Finkel did not have a picture of the real Usef, but Michael provided a photo that he'd taken of a different child and told his editor that it was Yusef. Again completely unacceptable and deceptive, especially for The New York Times. Ultimately, the organization Save the Children saw the article, and they were enraged that Finkel had criticized their work in Africa in the article, which could have compromised the important life saving work the

17:58 organization does. There. Save the Children found the real use of Malay and interviewed him. His story varied greatly from the version of Yusef that Finkel had portrayed in his article. Save the Children was also outraged when they realized that he had not used an actual picture of Yusef. They demanded an apology. And a correction. Finkel flew to New York to face his editors in person. They were shocked at his brazen acts of irresponsibility in the name of The New York Times, and he was fired immediately. To make matters worse, his transgression was made public, and Finkel was disgraced by fellow writers and other publications he might have otherwise sought employment with. The ultimate irony is that his firing and public lashing coincided with the Longo murders.

18:51 Just as one door slam shut, another door opened for Fingal Finkel, all because of Christian Longo. So did when Christian Longo started using Michael Finkel's name. Was that before the scandal hit with Michael Finkel. I mean just within a few days around the same time, a reporter from The Oregonian called Finkel to get a quote from him about Christian Longo stealing his identity, and it was the first he had heard of Kristin Longo, a man who would soon become all too familiar to him. Longo had woven their fates together for eternity by borrowing his identity. The call came at the same time that Finkel was anous anxiously awaiting the outing of his deceitful article and the impending end of his journalistic integrity and reputation.

19:39 So the New York Times was going to be published like a little correction, right, and that's what he was anxiously awaiting to happen. The timing of these two events is unbelievable. It really is crazy. And the fact that Longo would start to would choose this guy's identity right at that exact time that this scandal was just about to come out, it's just so weird. And he wasn't like a super well known journalist. He was just kind of you know, he'd only I think at that point, written maybe three articles for the New York Times magazine. Yeah, he was doing well. But it's just it is odd that I guess because he wasn't known that while like Longo knew that he could steal his identity. Remember that he used to deliver the newspapers, and I think he read the New York Times.

20:26 Long Longo did Longo did? Yeah? When he Yeah, I had that. Yeah, so he probably knew Michael Finkel's name from that. Well, here's so that. He'd even read like his early work in skiing magazine and things like that. So interesting it is. It is strange that you would follow a journalist's career like that. Yeah, never done that with any journalists, say. Longo was being kept in solitary considered extremely dangerous, But when Michael Finkel arrived at the prison to hear his life story, he found him to be young, articulate, and attractive, looking more like he belonged at a fraternity party than a county jail awaiting trial for killing his wife and three children. But Finkel was most surprised by Longo's intelligence and keen observation skills. Longo told Finkel that he'd been mostly good in his twenty eight years. He had broken it down to a number. He calculated that he'd been good for ninety two point eight eight percent of his life, but that seven point one two percent he'd been very bad, evil and his crimes didn't begin with the murder of Mary Jane and his children.

21:27 I bet that number is more like twenty six percent. What do you think? I mean, you could be good for ninety nine percent of your life, and if you do something as horrible as he did in the one percent, it doesn't make up for it very true. Finkel knew the damage to his reputation would be nearly impossible to salvage. His next work would need to be scrupulously honest and obsessively researched. While Longo had promised to be frank and sincere, he was also a professed pathological liar. Anything Chris told Michael, he cross checked with other sources. Despite painting himself to Finkle as a grieving husband and father, the people that Michael talked to from Chris's Cancoon trip said that he was jovial and friendly. One of these sources said the following about Christian Longo quote. He introduced himself as Mike and said he worked for the New York Times. He was having a fine time with us. We were smoking joints and drinking booze, diving off cliffs in the jungle.

22:24 I have photos of him and me with our arms around each other. He was totally cool. I really enjoyed his company. I wanted to stay in touch with him. We talked a lot of politics. We talked about women quite a lot. He said that he used to have a wife. I said, what happened? He said, I got rid of her. She was cheating on him. He said, you're not going to think I'll bet that guy kill this family. He was well spoken, polite, obviously intelligent. It made perfect sense to me that he was working for the New York Times. He had a good sense of humor. He'd point out chicks like we all would. But he was a perfect gentleman. He always bought drinks women. He was very respectful. Unquote. Chris and Mike's first in person meeting was only thirty minutes. Longo handed him a seventy eight page letter. The letter contained much of Christian's childhood and teen years. He credited his parents with giving him a loving support at home. In June two thousand and two, Finkel received another letter from Longo. This time it was a fifty two page letter he titled Wrong Turns, detailing all the mistakes that led him to murder his wife and three small children. He closed the letter with quote, I didn't commit the act, but this whole incident is my fault for not being home to ultimately protect unquote.

23:42 I don't know what he's I mean, I know what he's implying there. I don't want to say anything else. Yeah, he's pretty I was going to say, he's delusional, but he's obviously just playing games. Yeah, exactly. The pair met several times in person, but also chatted on the phone as often as possible until Longo went quiet. He knew that his story was intriguing and many writers would love the opportunity to write it. Chris knew that Finkel was planning on writing a book. He demanded a cut of the profits and wanted an agreement in writing. Michael knew that a contract would compromise the project and further damage his reputation. Other than putting a couple of one hundred dollars into his commissary account at the prison, he refused to pay Longo. To diffuse the tension in their relationship, Finkel began corresponding solely through letters. He realized that Chris didn't have much support, not even from his parents, and he just offered his friendship, trying to win his trust.

24:38 They played chess by mail, one move at a time. Michael confided in Chris about his hopes and fears. He shared his insecurities about his new relationship and future career. He said that his letters to Chris contained a vulnerability that he didn't share with anyone else. Chris, in turn, wrote to Michael about his life in prison, the bad food, the the other inmates, and their life stories. Some of his letters were dozens of pages long, handwritten in Longo's meticulous penmanship, rife with spelling errors, but also full of his impressive vocabulary. Chris was embarrassed that he never attended college, but liked to go toe to toe with Finkel, showing off his intelligence. Chris discovered that there was a five hundred dollar bounty on his head at the Oregon State Penitentiary, where he'd likely be sent, and a one hundred dollar prize for the first inmate to rape him. Longo read a lot in the jail while he awaited trial, almost a book a day. With their trust once again re established, they began talking on the phone again. Longo called Finkel every Wednesday night. Their talks were usually casual and friendly.

25:47 They promised to always be honest with each other, and Chris promised Michael exclusive rights to his story, and he kept his word. In the year before the trial, Longo and Finkel had fifty conversations over the telephone, and each had written twenty three letters to the other. Michael began to feel uneasy as he realized how important his relationship with Chris had become in his year of near isolation since being fired from The New York Times, Chris had become one of his only friends and confidants. He tried not to think of him as a murderer, but as the trial approached, he would be forced to snap back to reality. He knew it was very likely that Christian Longo had killed his wife and three children, even if he never confessed to him. Finkel realized that Longo had manipulated him to hone the story he would tell to the jury and to paint himself in the most positive light when Michael eventually wrote his book, So what you're saying there is like in the letters that Christian wrote to Michael that he was almost kind of rehearsing what he was going to say on the stand, or how he was going to approach.

26:50 Kind of developing his story right. On October first, two thousand and two, Longo had his first court hearing at the Lincoln County Courthouse in Newport, Washington to enter a plea. His court appointed attorney said that Longo was using his right to stand mute on all charges, but reserved the right to later enter a plea of guilty or innocent. So this mute play I've never heard before. I have neither. Yeah, it's rarely used and considered disrespectful to the court when used. Interesting. Yeah, I mean you're encouraged to enter a plea, right. You know again, Longo is playing a lot of these games. M Prior to his trial, Longo met with a psychologist who gave him a battery of tests. His lawyers were trying to find a diagnosis that they could work with to explain his actions to the jury. The psychologist found him to be very intelligent with excellent verbal skills. Longo was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder. What not a big surprise?

27:50 Huh Yeah. Unbeknownst to Longo, Michael Finkel sent letters from him, along with some background information, to three different psychologists and asked them to eventvaluate him. They also came back with the diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder. One psychologist said, quote, lying is their nature, not just their second nature, but their nature. Beware of their snares unquote. We'll be back after a break. This is going to make you really mad oh Good. On Valentine's Day two thousand and three, Longo entered the courtroom for a pre trial hearing. He had teased to Finkle that he had somewhat of a surprise planned. He didn't give any further details, He just said, wait and see. Longo, flanked by his two court appointed attorneys, was ready to enter a plea or please to the murder of his two older children, Zach and Sadie. He entered a plea of not guilty to the murder of Mary, Jane and Madison.

28:56 He pleaded guilty. Hm The judge caution Longo of the grammifications of pleading guilty and a death penalty case. Most defendants would only plead guilty if the death penalty was taken off the table. Longo said he understood. The courtroom was baffled why he would plead guilty to two murders and not all four. But Longo was a step ahead of everyone. He crafted detail that would shock. Oh, it's all coming back to me now, I remember. I know. This makes me so mad. It took two weeks to seat the jury, eight women and four men ranging in age from nineteen to sixty two, in order to sit on the jury. They had to agree with capital punishment. Christian was surprised that twelve people could agree to possibly put him to death. He was accustomed to people finding him charming. Longo wrote to Finkle that he was not afraid of the consequences. Quote, I will live or die by the truth. Nothing matters more right now in my life than that. If it kills me to tell the truth in every matter, so be it. I am a dead man. Do you think he's going to tell the truth?

30:02 No, of course. The prosecution alleged that Chris strangled all our members of his family. He put Mary Jane in Madison and waited suitcases, and then threw them into the Yaquina Bay near their condo. He drove Zachary and Sadie's bodies about fifteen miles away and threw them off the lint Sloth Bridge after he'd bound them together in a black comforter and tied pillowcases filled with rocks around their small bodies. In the hours after he killed his family, Longo stole a car, went to the gym, played volleyball with friends, worked a shift at fred Meyer, and then rented movies. He threw out five garbage bags of his family's possessions, including scrap books, stuffed animals, brand new clothing, and even Mary Jane's purse.

30:44 He then attended the Starbucks Christmas party and gave away a bottle of Mary Jane's perfume. He told the attendees at the party that Mary Jane had left him for another man and taken the children with her. Once Zachary's body had ascended to the surface, days later, Longo fl to San Francisco, then Mexico. The prosecution took seven days to present their case. The evidence was largely circumstantial, but the man who had seen Longo on the bridge in the early morning hours of December eighteenth testified and placed Chris near the location where Zachary and Sadi's bodies were eventually found. That was probably the best piece of evidence against him, other than all of the mounting circumstantial evidence.

31:28 It's always good to have an eyeball witness. Is it. Eyeball witnesses are some of the worst evidence. I know you're going to say that, but still good. No. I think in this case it really was because he could identify the maroon van and he saw Chris and Christian testified at the trial. He was on the witness stand for several days. Can you imagine having to listen to his bs no? On day four, he finally told the rest of the story of what happened to his family. On the night of December sixth teenth, Chris couldn't sleep. Mary Jane asked him what was wrong, and he unloaded on to her all of the lies he had been telling her since he'd promised to be honest after the counterfeit check scam. He told her about the stolen van, the additional counterfeit checks, how he'd lie to their landlord about having money, and many other lies. He told her that they would be evicted and on the streets within days. Mary Jane was furious and locked him out of the bedroom. She drove him to work the next afternoon for his shift and picked him up later that night, not speaking a single word to him. Their three small children weren't in the van. Mary Jane wouldn't tell him where the children were. He tore through the condo when they returned home, searching for the children. He couldn't find Zach or Sadie. He found Madison in the bedroom, purple and barely breathing. Mary Jane was hysterical and not communicating while Christian demanded to know what had happened. He picked her up and hit her head against the wall.

32:59 She said, quote, you did this. This was your fault. You did this, You killed us. End quote. She told Chris that the other two children were in the water. He said, he lost his temper and strangled her. Then he put her in a suitcase, and that's when he noticed little Madison was still breathing. He strangled the last breaths out of her and then placed her in a suitcase filled with clothing and scuba diving weights, before placing both suitcases into the bay. The condo backed up too. He didn't know what had happened to Zach and Sadie, he said, until days later when he'd heard the news. Oh do you believe his version of and it's so it makes me so angry that he would basically, yeah, I know, she was a very loving mother. She would have never done that. Who what others comeback did the same thing, Chris Watts.

33:52 Oh, that's right, I forgot about that. On Monday, April second, two thousand and three, the case went to the jury and took the jury only four hours to find Christian Lango guilty on all accounts. Later, the jury foreman revealed that the jury had reached a consensus within minutes. Well, I'm not surprised. Can you imagine how angry they. I mean, you're so angry listening to it, and I was so angry reading it. Well, having to hear him on the stand for four days or whatever it was, would just ye, that would make me incensed being on that jury, and really there's. No doubt that he was guilty. The penalty phase took four days. Longo's parents both testified on his behalf, as did his younger brother Dustin, but Christian Longo was sentenced to death. Mary Jane's sister Penny released a statement on behalf of her family that simply said, quote, many people talk about closure, there is no closure. Mary Jane, Zachary, Sadie, and Madison are gone. I think that's how I would feel if this, ever, you know, happened to us, because people always talk about closure, and I just feel like, yeah, I mean, there's just.

34:57 Some family member. Nothing was going to bring them back. Oh Y. After eight years on death row, the State of Oregon imposed a moratorium on executions, and Christian Longo's life was spared. In December twenty twenty two, his death sentence was officially commuted to life in prison without parole. Wow. After the verdict was read, Longo wrote Finkel a thirty seven page letter trying to explain his testimony in detail. Do you think by this time Finkl is like, oh, I cannot read another word? Yes, I would think so. He claimed that Mary Jane had killed the children to punish him. Of course, it's all about him exactly. Longo said he did realize that although Mary Jane had killed two of the children and attempted to kill the third, he was the cause. Longo could tell that he'd lost his power over Finkel, who was disgusted at his lies and further deception, his cowardice to paint his loyal wife as a murderer instead of accepting responsibility. Longo had a peculiar relationship with the truth. Each time he was caught in a lie or serious of lies, he vowed to never lie again to become a better man. After testifying that Mary Jane was responsible for the children's deaths, he wrote to Finkel, quote, maybe this is the one time that I should have lied. Maybe in some way I took the cowardly course by not taking all of the blame.

36:18 Maybe for the second time in the last year and a half, I've made a horrendous and devastating decision in telling the absolute truth, the first ending in the deaths of my entire family. My wrote to honesty, maybe proving more treacherous and debilitating than the egregious course of lies and dishonesty. I did not take the lives of Zach and Sadie and confused even more now, to the point of whiplash. End quote. He said he was ashamed, but he had told the truth. In Qurte, Finkel told him that he needed space. Finkel wrote in his book True Story. Quote, I hated him. I hated him in the intense way that you can only hate someone that you've truly once cared a what Longo had done to his family, and how he'd acted in court, and the ways in which he'd toyed with me, and the fact that he had never expressed any genuine remorse or even seemed to grasp the magnitude of his crimes. I saw all that. I saw all that, and I hated him more. I was thankful for the juror's decision. I agreed with them. Longo I thought deserved to die. He had come to me as a liar and a con man and a possible killer.

37:27 And during our time together I had given him every benefit of the doubt. I had accepted him as at least a partially kind and empathetic man. I had believed that he was striving to become more honest and trustworthy. But when it came to the ultimate test of his essential decency in court under oath, in front of his and Mary Jane's families, he told the biggest and worst lies of his life. I had been fascinated by Longo. I had also been fooled by him. As he was let out of court for the final time, he seemed to me not much different than the first day he called. He left as a liar and a con man and a definite killer. He was gone, condemned to die, and I had this sense of having survived something, a storm of sorts, And here I was on the back end, alive and intact, though in many ways not the same person at all end. Quote Finkel wrote a ten page letter to Chris. The letter, he hoped would give them both closure and be his last. He told Chris that he was sickened by him and was incredulous that he hadn't taken responsibility for his actions and had spewned more lies. Longo, of course, wrote back and delivered a new set of lies and justifications. He said, quote what I said on the stand was false. I am absolutely guilty of killing my entire family. I'd admit the past and monsterize myself in the eyes of the jury. I would try to be emotionless to add credibility to that monsterization. I would tell the story as planned to cement the hatred of both loved ones and the jurors, which would guarantee the

39:00 guilty conviction and pave the way for a death penalty decision. End quote. He claimed he was trying to receive the death penalty to atone for his crimes. He continued, quote, I know that you didn't believe me on the stand. I know that nobody else believed me either. What I said in regards to what happened that night wasn't meant to be believed. It was meant for everyone to despise me and move on. End quote. That's really bizarre. So now he's saying he lied on the stand, but he did it intentionally because he wanted everyone wanted to death hate him. He wanted so he's almost trying to make it sound like he was really being a morally good person to try to get everyone to hate him.

39:44 That's the thing with all of his lies, they all made him paint himself in like a beneficial light, right. Yeah, make him look like he's some kind of hero. For I stole money, but it was to buy Mary Jane's wedding ring, or I counterfeited checks, but that was just so I could pay everyone else what I owed them and feed my kids. Like there was always, you know, an excuse. A horrible, horrible, horrible man. He ended the letter and told Pinkel that he was ready to tell him the real story. Now. Pinkl again took the bait, and another series of letters between the two began. Logo claimed that he'd driven himself back to work on the afternoon of December seventeenth. He worked the two to eleven shift at fred Meyer that day. No one recalled him acting unusual. When he returned to the condo, he found Mary Jane holding a pillow over Madison's face.

40:35 He became enraged and admitted that he killed Mary, Jane, and then Madison and dumped their bodies into the bay. He then took a sleepy Zach and Sadie for a drive before he decided to end their lives. Longo said he threw them over the bridge to their desks with pillowcases tied with rocks to their bodies. So what he's saying there is that they were alive when he threw them into the water. I think so if you remember back to part one, like the autopsies of Zach especially looked Christine like there was no, you know, nothing wrong with his body. There was no, you know, evidence of strangulation. Every time we have a case about strangulation, not to be morbid, but I just remember that it takes three to four minutes to end someone's life by strangulation. And I can't imagine looking into a person's eyes that you love, right and you know, seeing the life go out of their eyes, and you know, that's just such a decision.

41:31 Yeah, it really is. It's just so horrible to even think about. And then this new story he's he's still accusing Mary Jane of doing something of trying to smother Madison, right, which. Is clearly should not have done it. And you know, and what would be the point of her doing it at that point, Like he would walk in the room after you know, he was gone the whole day. And it's just I don't know, just he just enjoyed that chess match with Finkel and just going back and forth, and he just I think he liked the attention. No one else was just a sick man.

42:11 Yeah. Well, the rest in peace to Marry Jane, Zachary, Sadian, Madison. You all deserve so much better. Oh for sure. They are all buried together in ann Arbor at the Bethlehem Cemetery. What do you think Christian Longo's motive was. I mean, I think for someone like him, everything goes back to self preservation and doing whatever is best for him. And I think, you know, he got himself in a bad situation financially with all his crimes, and he was desperate for some way out and he probably figured by doing this, he you know, could potentially run away and be free, live living in Mexico or wherever it was, and could start a new life.

42:57 I don't think I mentioned this, but he said that he went to Mexico and he was planning on coming back. Yeah, right, I don't think I believe that, but. I mean I don't. I don't believe anything. No, I don't believe anything he says either. What do you think was his motive? I think he was excessively prideful. I think that he thought that he was special and that he deserved the success. And when he didn't have that success and he saw himself reflected back in his family's eyes, that he was a failure and he couldn't stand to see himself in that way. And Christmas was coming, and I think there was no way that he was going to be able to provide, you know, the Christmas that he wanted to provide for his family. I'm not I don't want to make him sound like a good person, but that was just you know.

43:47 Right, But in his mind, if he couldn't, you know, yeah, be that person, then yes, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But it's so horrible that he could have just left. He could have he could have flown off to Mexico, he could have left his family, and he could have you know, it's. So true in all these cases that we talk about. It's like, yeah, there's got to be a better alternative than doing what you did. You know, Yeah, I. Mean to send Mary Jane back to live with her family or they would have gladly picked her up and helped her. And it's so tragic that that these narcissists think that it's easier to end someone's life, right admit any defeat. It's hard to know which version of his story to talk about, like which one, because you know, they shifted so much. But in one version of his story, he killed Madison, like Madison was still breathing, Like, why would he have admitted to that?

44:47 I think, well, I think that he kind of had to because of where the bodies were found. So if he admitted to killing Mary Jane, he would have had to admitted to killing Madison as well, because their bodies were found in the same place in such a similar manner. Right, So he came up with a fairly convoluted story to try to explain, and he made it sound like killing Madison was a mercy killing almost right, like oh, she was, you know, struggling to breathe, and so he kind of makes it sound like he is putting her out of her misery to make himself again kind of look like a good guy or yeah, better. That's likely true. If Zachary would not have been found floating on the surface of the water, would Christian Longo be a free man today?

45:32 Oh gosh, I sure would hope not. The other like Sad's body was pretty weighted down, and the other found suitcases, they might not have found them for you know, years. Yeah, I mean, it's a good it's a really good point and a good question, and thankfully we'll never know. But yeah, he would have. I'm sure they would have figured it out that he was on the run and that the family had disappeared, but it could have taken them a long time to figure that out. And by the time they did, who knows where. He found, you know, definitely would have been harder to prove. What do you think Longo would be doing today if he weren't in prison, Like I mean, if if he hadn't killed his family, I mean, who.

46:14 Knows, he'd be on to his next whatever the next scam was, and trying to you know, start some business and cheating people out of money. I think what if his business would have been successful? Well, I think people on the precipice of being successful. Yeah, but I think people like that even if his business had been successful, he didn't know how to manage his money. He still would have been spending more than he was making. Even if he was making a lot of money, I think he was did not make smart decisions, so he would have he would have still ended up in the same sort of trouble one way or another. I think that's true. He just seemed like, like looking at him, he just looks like, you know, just a normal guy, and you wouldn't I guess that's the true of so many of these guys.

46:58 Yeah, yeah, for sure. Do you see the parallels between him and Chris Watts especially? Oh yeah, especially with Chris Watts. And I was wondering, like, why do you think the Chris Watts case got so much more attention like this case he's not that well known Christian Longo, I mean, I know he's somewhat well known, but compared to Chris. Watts, It's like I was surprised when doing the research for this case that there is there are fewer podcasts on it and less information. I think one of the reasons that the Watts case is as big as it is is because of the timing of it. First of all, I mean it happened only you know, five six years ago, right, and also Shenan's Facebook presence, right, because for me personally, like researching that case, I mean I felt like I knew.

47:47 I felt like I knew the girls, like you could see them and hear them, and I mean it was, you know, just so devastating. Yeah, I'm sure that's right. And also maybe a little bit of it too, is the the bodycam footage of Chris on the that they yeah, came to the department. I think that was really like I think a lot of people that's burned into their brains for sure. Yeah, I mean it's and it's so uncomfortable m hm. And just oh yeah, just my blood pressure is rising just thinking about him. Yeah. Longo spends his days exercising, watching TV, and voraciously reading. The first book he finished after moving to the penitentiary was Stephen King's The Green Mile about life on death row.

48:28 When he's allowed out of his cell, he works as a janitor. In the three months following his death sentence, he received two marriage proposals. He corresponds with his parents and brother. He says that their relationship is stronger than ever. He's taken up the cause of organ donation. He founded Gifts of anatomical Value for everyone or gave. He believes that inmates should not be excluded from organ donation. Longo offered his kidney to a dying man who refused the donation. Oh, interesting, would you accept his kidney? I probably would if you have. Yeah, just such a weird cause to take up.

49:09 That is a very strange cause I'm a little surprised that he's corresponding with his parents too, because they kind of wrote him off, like after he did the like before he killed his family, they had kind of written him off, right, So it's kind of strange that now they're willing to be in touch with him and chat with time. Heals a lot of wounds. I don't know how you've come on from that. Yeah, but who knows what lies he's spewing to them, And you know they are religious people. Maybe you know they think that he's seen the light, or he's pretending to anyway. Yeah, So he did get in trouble in prison for writing a fifteen He writes so like such long things. He wrote a fifteen page love letter to an inmate named Jennifer. The letter began quote, dear sendor rita cotton candy and it went on from there.

50:04 She told on him and she got off on a drug charge. Because she told on him, the prosecutor used a letter to obtain a search warrant to his cell, where they found handwritten documents essentially admitting that he killed his family. Oh wow. News reports at the time said that they contained details of the murders of Mary, Jane and Madison. Interesting. Sometime, I think it was around twenty eleven, he requested to marry someone and that request was denied. When a reporter asked him about it, he said it was a prank, he said, to prove that the Department of Corrections routinely denies his requests.

50:50 Okay, so I. Can't find any information about him in the last ten years. But it really did seem like he wanted to get married. He was engaged to a woman with two children, so I mean, maybe he is married, but I couldn't find anything out about that. In another letter obtained by Katu News, Longa wrote a woman that he may have been romantically involved with quote I got up on the stand and essentially blamed my wife for everything. I was still stuck in a phase where I couldn't fathom the thought of me being capable of doing what I was convicted of. End quote. Chris said he dreams of his children. Usually he dreams about the girls and they're playing, but his son is screaming, which is really sad. But he does not dream about Mary Jane. He said. He thinks that's because he had detached himself from her in the last years of their marriage.

51:44 Interesting. Michael Thinkle's book about his relationship with Chris Longo, True Story Murder Memoir Mia Koppa, was published in two thousand and five. In twenty fifteen, James Franco and Jonah Hill starred in True Story, based on his book. Not a big fan of either one of those guys. We watched the movie, Yeah, did not really, I mean we watched it probably. I don't remember it very well, but yeah. I remember not loving it. Franco played Kristian Longo and Jonah Hill played Michael Finkel. The casting of Franco was perhaps generous, while Jonah Hill was likely an insult to Michael Finkel. Although I found and asked me anything where he said he was honored to be played by him.

52:27 That was several years ago. Since then, Jonah Hill has a little has had a little fall from grace, do you know what I'm talking about? Not really just kind of some abusive messages with an ex girlfriend. Franco has also been accused of some not so great things too. But anyway, I remember the when we watched the movie. The movie was a lot about the relationship between these two men and not as much about Christian Longo and what led him to murder his family. And I wish that it would have foken more on that, where. The book book was kind of about both, right it sort of. Yeah, the book was I would say excellent. I think he did a really good job. My one critique about the book would be that he might have painted Longo and too positive of a light, like he made him seem like and I think this is probably the dichotomy that is Christian Longo like affable and you know, he said that he gave him advice like about his relationship, right and things like that, so until the trial and makes him seem like maybe a redeemable character, where once you get to the trial you realize he's yeah, not he's horrible.

53:40 I remember that about the book, and I remember feeling having kind of mixed feelings about Michael Finkel because he's sort of, I don't know, it's sort of icky like he It kind of felt like they were using each other. Oh, definitely, that's interesting that you have that takeaway, because that's how I felt reading it too, Like you just felt like Finkel was kind of, oh, I don't know, like the relationshipise Ak was obviously he was using his power in a way to get the story, and it just felt like cues. But then it seemed like he did care about him. You mean it seemed like Finkel cared about Longo. Yeah. I think he wanted to believe he was something, but then he found out that he really was something else.

54:22 Right. Pinkel has gone on to write two of more best selling books, The Stranger in the Woods, the Extraordinary Story of the Last True Hermit in twenty seventeen, and The Art Thief, a true story of love, crime and a Dangerous Obsession from twenty twenty three. And those are both nonfiction books. Yes, interesting. Michael Finkle is married to Jill, the woman Chris Longo told him to marry. They have three children and divide their time between northern Utah and the south of France. So he must be doing pretty well for himself. I guess so. But just a really interesting story. And again, the timing is so serendipitous. I don't if if Finkel hadn't been fired from The New York Times, I wonder if this would have had a different trajectory.

55:09 Yeah, and if or if the whole thing had never happened, like, would Finkel have been able to revive his career. I mean, it sounds like he was able to revive his career and landed on his feet, But if Christian Longo hadn't come along at all, would have been able to. During the early two thousands, there were several cases that were similar. Yeah, several journalists I think I can't remember the names off the top of my head, but there was remember the James Fry the Oprah book Club. I don't remember the name of that book either, But there were several others. There were a lot of scandals. There were people were making up characters. They're making up an amalgamation of characters. Yeah. I wondered journalism because of the Internet, maybe got a little easier to disprove people's claims. Maybe it might be unfair to compare Michael Finkel and Chris Longo, but they both told lies. And it's interesting to see how finkl redeemed himself and long ago he just continued on this downwards spy spiral and just told lie after lie after light and he definitely is where he needs to be, in prison and we'll never see the light of day again.

56:15 Glad that such a sad story. Ye, so summer is over Fall really like summer being over at like fall. I know it is sad when the days start getting shorter, mornings are a little cooler, and yeah, you really you really don't like winter, So I think you start getting like winter anxiety and the flaw. But I really love fall. I don't love the heat. I'm excited. I am looking forward to some cooler days and some nice colors and all that. Some soup, yeah, some tea. So this is basically a sports podcast where we talk about true crime once.

56:58 In a while during football season. It's well, that's what I was just going to give you another opportunity to predict the Lions. A ridiculous, a ridiculous faalse news headline about. The Sports Illustrated is picking the Lions. You can't trust the Sports Illustrated. You just can't. I trust them pretty much, well not normally. So do you think do you think it's a possibility. Oh, I think it's a very very good possibility. But the thing with NFL football is you can't. It's really hard to predict because all teams are like very close. There's like parody in the NFL. So even though on paper the Lions seem like they have a very good chance of winning the Super Bowl, anything could happen, a key player gets injured. I mean, it's just so hard to predict. But I think they have a very very.

57:47 Good You just lit light right up when you're talking about I think you really do need a sports podcast. I know so many people that are so much more knowledgeable about sports than I am. I love football, I love baseball, but I'm not that like I'm knowledgeable about the game, but I don't follow the players. I don't follow that. Yeah, it's a full time job. It really is. I know people who are like obsessive about that. Ravo is like my dream Cord Hast would be doing Ravo like a Bravo show kind of thing, and that's a lot of work too. There's a lot of players. For me that would be like the Beatles, Like I could do a podcast about the Beatles, because you would do that. Well, I don't know if I would, but I'm just saying, well, the only Yeah, that's the only topic that I've like, you know, from the time I was a child, I've been pretty obsessed with and I know a fair.

58:38 Amount about I do a podcast about Cheetos maybe She's flavored snacks. Yeah, No, I don't feel knowledgeable about anything. Well, Bravo, I mean you just said I think you could. Not well, like similar to you. I mean I don't know all the players. Yeah, I don't know all their playbooks. Even with like the Beatles. Like when I was young, I would have told you I know as much about the Beatles as any human being on the planet. And now I look like I'm on all these different subreddits about the Beetles and stuff, and I'm learning new things every day. I'm like, oh, I never knew that that's interesting, and so it's crazy. Yeah, you do know a lot though, So I'm just looking at my phone because a lot of times like I'm reading something and I write notes, and I have notes all over like on different notes, apps and whatever, and a lot of times my notes are like laceration to the back of his skull, dent and paint scratches, microscopic pieces of plast Oh, I know what case that is? Okay, but I was like, I have no idea what case that is.

59:36 But bottom line, if either of us are ever found dead, the other one is going to be in big trouble because they're always going to be able to find something on our phones. That well, what case was that? First of all, I don't know if that was Karen the microscopic piece of Yet, No, you're going to be off free because they're going to play those times. And I've said it more than once when I'm like, rich would never hurt me, and I love you and I think you're great, and I really can't even I should say right now, yeah, you're capable of it, but I don't really think you are. Yeah, so I don't think you are either. I think you're I don't know. Oh, be careful what you say. No, of course I wouldn't do that. We shouldn't joke about it, really.

1:00:19 No, we really shouldn't well. As always, thank you all for listening. We appreciate each and every one of you. Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, find us on social media, or send us an email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com, and please consider supporting us on Patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. We have one tier five dollars a month for early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode, cookie recipe and a cookie recipe Until next time. I Don't Kill your husband and Don't. Kill your wife to.

1:01:13 The topick tot