May 18, 2026

Michele and Martin MacNeill - Part 2

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Michele MacNeill was a devoted mother of eight and a respected member of her community. From the outside, her life looked picture-perfect—until cracks in her marriage began to surface.

As her husband Martin grew increasingly distant, Michele and her daughter Alexis uncovered evidence of a secret life he had been carefully hiding. Affairs, deception, and manipulation slowly came into focus, even as Martin insisted nothing was wrong.

When Michele agreed to undergo a facelift at her husband’s urging, it seemed like a chance to repair both her confidence and her marriage. Days later, she was dead. What first appeared to be a tragic accident would soon raise far more troubling questions.

Today's snacks: Tony's Chocolonely, Tiny Tony's and Pistachio Caramel Clusters

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Hi.

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I'm Tina, and I'm Rich. There's one thing that we've

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learned in over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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And some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hi Rich, Hi Tina.

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How are you?

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I am doing good? How are you?

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I'm great? I feel like we've lived a whole life

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since we recorded part one. Can't you remember anything about

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part one?

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No? I was going to say, I really have no

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part what it was like a week ago. Can expect

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me to remember something that took place a week ago?

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Luckily for you, I wrote a recap that we'll read

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in a couple of minutes. But we just got back

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into town. We went to Marquette to see our son,

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who is breaking his mother's heart by not coming home

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this summer. But that's okay. Hey, do you want to

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tell everyone about the attempt that you took on my life?

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I don't remember that I remember what you did. No,

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you're gonna have to refresh my memory.

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I think the other night when we were in the Airbnb,

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I had a headache and I didn't have anything with me,

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and I said, hey, do you have anything for a headache,

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and you said yeah, and you gave me a couple

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of pills unidentified, and then I swallowed them. And then

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I said, what were those? Oh what do you remember?

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I think they were Motrin or I you.

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Provided many many years ago.

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Okay, yeah, yes, I don't think that will kill you though.

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I think that will just maybe not work as well

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as it should. But yeah, they expired in twenty twenty three,

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I believe, I live to tell. I carry them around

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in my laptop.

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I guess you're going to have to try a little

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harder next time, I guess. On our last episode, we

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read some reviews from our listeners that really touched our hearts,

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that were very kind. But I like for us to

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stay humble and keep it real, so I wanted to

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read a couple of maybe the more nitty gritty comments

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that we can it. This is from Rachel. It was

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a Spotify comment, by far, the most boring monotone hosts

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on a podcast I've ever heard. Wow, I'm thinking we're

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not that boring.

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I think this person must not listen to a lot

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of podcasts.

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But well, she left it on the Just the Facts episode.

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So it's always tricky for us because some people are like,

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I hate banter, but some people like a little more bantering, right,

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so we get both comments on either end. Do you

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have a couple of comments to read?

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I found one. This is maybe the rudest comment I've

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ever heard in my life, is from Jules. It says,

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go chiefs. I mean, that is just incredibly Oh.

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I have no problem with that comment personally.

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I'm just kidding. Okay, Well, most of the critical comments

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we've gotten lately are either about our pronunciations or about

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euthanizing cats, which I think we addressed in the last episode.

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But here's one. I'm starting the show from the earliest episodes,

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so I don't know if this changes as time goes on.

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But Tina interjects so much, oh my god, every other

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sentence she asked for clarification or shares an anecdote. Rich

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has the patience of a saint.

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He really does. Well, we have come a long way, yeah,

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and I don't think our podcast has. Would people say

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they're starting from the beginning, I'm always.

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Like, oh no, a little bit too.

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Yeah, but it's okay. We've grown and we've learned, and

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it's okay. If you don't love everything that we do,

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but we are trying our best. Remember, on our way home,

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we were driving by the Costco and I said, I

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know you don't want to, but we don't have any

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food at home, so we should probably stop. I do remember,

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but you refuse to go in the store. So I

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took one for the team, and I grabbed a couple

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of snacks that you didn't see because you were in

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the car. I appreciate it, and I think you're gonna

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like these. I got a variety pack of Tony's Chalk,

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a lonely old GM chocolate. I didn't know that this

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was not made in the United States. But there are milk,

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little mini Tony's milk, chocolate, milk, chocolate, caramel, sea salt,

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and chocolate caramel toffee.

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Hmmm, that sounds good.

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I don't think you're going to like these as much,

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but dark chocolate pistachio caramel.

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Clusters still sounds pretty good.

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Okay, you're not a big nut guy.

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No, but I am a big chocolate and caramel guy.

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Okay, which Tony's do you want to try? You can't

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have all three.

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Something with caramel in it?

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Okay, so what did you think? I read chocolate snacks

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today really good.

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I love the Tony's chocolate only, although it didn't see

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I didn't sense a lot of caramel in it, which

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was kind of weird because it's chocolate with sea salt caramel.

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But it was very good. The pistachio on your right,

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I didn't like it as much. A little bit too

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much pistachio for me, but it was still good. I

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like everything else about it.

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I actually preferred the pistachio caramel clusters. The brand is

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Copper Kettle Candy Company. I love them. I would give

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them a ten out of ten. They come in like

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a pistachio green package, so if you're at Costco, I

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highly recommend them. And the Tony's was really good. I

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had the milk chocolate pretzel toffee.

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Well this works out well. You can stick with the

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pistachios and I'll stick with the.

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Tony from you and I will dole them out if

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you're a good boy and you do good things. Okay, okay,

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what would you rate the snacks?

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I'd give the Tonys a nine out of ten and

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the pistachio Caramel's seven out of ten.

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Seven out of ten. I would give the pistachio Kramels

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ten out of ten.

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You already rated the.

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Eleven out of ten, and I would give the Tonys.

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I don't know. I felt like it wasn't as good

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as the big bars. Maybe that's just in my imagination,

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but I had that after the pistachio, so I would

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give that probably an eight and a half out of ten.

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Eight and a half.

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Okay, Well, thank you for coming back to part two

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of Michelle and Martin McNeil. Do you want to give

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us a recap?

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Sure? On April eleventh, two thousand and seven, Michelle McNeil, fifty,

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was found unresponsive in her bathtub, just days after undergoing

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a facelift. Her husband had strongly encouraged Martin. A doctor

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called it a tragic accident, but from the start the

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scene raised questions. Michelle was a devoted mother of eight,

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deeply rooted in her Mormon faith. Together, she and Martin

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had built a life that appeared successful and admired, but

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behind closed doors, it was beginning to crack. Martin's behavior

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had grown increasingly erratic and controlling. He had a long

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history of manipulation and deception, engaged in multiple affairs, and

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maintained a carefully constructed double life. As Michelle grew suspicious

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of him, he denied everything, often twisting reality to make

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her doubt what she knew to be true. In two

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thousand and five, he began an intense relationship with Gipsy Willis,

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a woman two decades younger. With the help of her

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daughter Alexis, Michelle uncovered the affair, only to be met

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with more denial. Around the same time, Martin claimed he

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was seriously ill, telling different people he had cancer, multiple sclerosis,

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or other conditions. In reality, he was diagnosed with HMPP,

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a non life threatening disorder, but he continued to act

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as though he were dying, rewriting his will and putting

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assets in Michelle's name, but no one realized what he

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was actually preparing for.

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Do you want to add anything to that?

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No, that was actually a really good reminder for me.

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But I think when Michelle discovered that he was talking

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to this gypsy Willis, I remember, like she looked at

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his phone records and there were calls at like two

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am and really late at night, and he was just

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completely gaslighting her right that. I can't remember what he

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told it.

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This was a tenant that was running one of their properties.

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She works nights. Yeah, so that's why she was calling.

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Alexis McNeil, a third year medical student, was not happy

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about her mother having such an extensive surgery that she

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deemed unnecessary and unsafe with her high blood pressure, Michelle

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was still beautiful and shouldn't feel the need to compete

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with Martin's younger mistress, Anne. Michelle was hesitant to go

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under the knife. Martin assured her that everything would be

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okay and that he'd personally see to her recovery. The

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surgery was scheduled for April third, Prior to her facelift,

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Michelle decided it would be a good idea to get

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a physical. Martin accompanied her and began answering for her,

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saying that she was healthy with no underlying conditions. The

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doctor became annoyed and asked Bartin to leave the room

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while he finished the examination. Went alone with the doctor.

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Michelle admitted that she had occasional heart palpitations and her

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blood pressure tended to be a little high. She also

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told the doctor that her mood had been low recently

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and she felt depressed. When he checked her blood pressure,

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it was one sixty over one ten or hypertension stage

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two one eighty over one twenty is considered a hypertensive crisis.

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So it was really high.

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He prescribed medication for her blood pressure, zola for her depression,

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and urged her to delay the surgery until her blood

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pressure was under control. After they left the office, Martin

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told Michelle that she would be fine and she should

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go ahead with the scheduled surgery. Michelle felt strongly about

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listening to her doctor, though she also wanted to lose

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a few pounds before the procedure, but Martin grew angry

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and snapped, you're having it now. I'm too busy, and

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Alexis is here to take care of you. If you

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don't have the surgery now, you're not getting it. Martin snarled,

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I already paid for the anesthesiologist and the operating suite.

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Alexis had come home for spring break to help care

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for Michelle post surgery and was shocked at the way

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Martin was acting. Michelle decided to move forward with the procedure.

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Two days prior to the surgery, the three mcneils went

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to doctor Thompson's office for a pre opt consultation. The

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doctor went over the medications he was prescribing seven ambient

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thirty vikadand for pain is needed, medrol to reduce swelling,

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an antibiotic cephlexen, and erythromyasin drops for Michelle's eyes to

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promote faster healing. Martin intervened. He told the doctor that

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Michelle had a low tolerance for pain and requested stronger medications,

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her casette rather than vicotin, along with lori tab elixir,

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a combination of hydrocodone and acidamnifin, and valuum to ease

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her pre surgery anxiety. Doctor Thompson capitulated to Martin and

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agreed to prescribe the extra medication. He was uncomfortable, but

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Martin promised that he'd personally oversee Michelle's recovery. The doctor cautioned,

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this is more medication than I usually prescribe. Be very

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careful and only take what you need.

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Couldn't Martin have prescribed medication to her if he wanted to.

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I know that wouldn't be necessarily ethical to do that.

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Well, I mean, I think you know where the story

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is going. If he would have prescribed, it would have

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for him. But I think that they would probably catch

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that at the pharmacy. If you know, third last names match.

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Right.

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The day before the surgery, Martin gathered his wife and

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children and told them that in case of his death,

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Alexis would be executor of his and went over his

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will and detail. Michelle was taken aback. Why wouldn't he

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choose her? He then handed out checks for five thousand

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dollars to each of his older children. They gratefully accepted

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the gift, but were confused. This was not like Martin

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at all. Early on Tuesday, April third, Martin and Alexis

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accompanied Michelle to the hospital. Martin gave her a kiss

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and said he'd see her later he was headed to work.

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The surgery took seven hours, and Michelle fared very well,

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though her face was heavily bandaged and her eyesight temporarily gone.

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In her book about this case, Shanna Hogan goes into

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great detail, like excruciating detail, and it sounds horrible, and

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I really don't want a facelift.

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Seven hours. See, I don't know anything about facelifts, but

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seven hours seems like a really long time. I wouldn't

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expect it to be that extensive.

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Pretty rigorous surgery, and she was having her whole faced on.

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Wow.

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The procedure was planned as outpatient, but Michelle wanted to

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stay overnight. When Martin arrived to take her home, he

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insisted could she be discharged, but doctor Thompson agreed that

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she should remain at the hospital. Martin grumpily relented. Alexis

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00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.120
stayed by her mother's side, sleeping in an uncomfortable hospital recliner,

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while Martin went home. When Michelle was released the next morning,

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Alexis stayed home with her, taking careful note of every

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medication she administered, Michelle's vital signs and what she was eating,

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logging it all in a small notebook she kept meticulously. Later,

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she said, I really wanted to do a good job

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helping her. She was my mom, So I was taking

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her vidal's blood pressure pulls, rubbing her legs, things like that.

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Alexis was taking really great care of her mom, and

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she took this job very seriously. When Martin returned home

249
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from work, he insisted Alexis take a break and leave

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him in charge. The next morning, Alexis woke up and

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checked on Michelle. She couldn't rouse her. She asked Martin

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how much medication he'd given her overnight. Well, I don't know,

253
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but she wasn't a lot of pain. Maybe I gave

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her too much. When he listed the medication he'd administered,

255
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Alexis accused him of overdosing Michelle and announced that she

256
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was taking over her care. Michelle was out of it

257
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:08.919
most of the day, but finally, when she was lucid

258
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that evening, she told her daughter, he kept handing me things,

259
00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.919
even after I started to throw up. He kept giving

260
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me stuff, making me swallow it. And remember, Michelle still

261
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:23.600
couldn't see. She was in pain, disoriented and emotionally raw,

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00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:29.200
completely completely vulnerable. Through tears, she reached for Alexis and whispered, Alexis,

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if anything happens to me, promise me you'll make sure

264
00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:33.840
they look at your father.

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I can't imagine how scary that must have been for Michelle.

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And we hear it so often where people say, you know,

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if anything happens to me, look at.

268
00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.919
So and so, and it's just I can't imagine saying

269
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that tar kids either. It would be so sad if

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I said something happens to me.

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As your father, yeah, definitely.

272
00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:55.679
Michelle actually went over the pills with Alexis. She said, Okay,

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00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.240
hand me a percocet. Let me see how that feels,

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00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:01.799
and she wanted to make sure that she wasn't being overdosed.

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00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:06.279
Yeah. Two days after the facelift surgery, doctor Thompson removed

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the stitches from Michelle's eyes and she could see again.

277
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.840
The doctor said she was healing well with her vision back.

278
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The first thing she did when she got home was

279
00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.080
to try to log into Martin's T mobile account to

280
00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:21.000
check his cell phone activity, but she wasn't able to

281
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:24.919
log in Martin had changed the password. She tore into

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00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.879
him and accused him of cheating again, which she denied.

283
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.240
A week after surgery, Michelle's doctor was pleased with her progress.

284
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:35.279
She was feeling better and happy with what she saw

285
00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:38.399
in the mirror. Her pain was under control. She was

286
00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:41.840
down to just one percoset a day. With her mother improving,

287
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.879
Alexis decided it was time to return to Nevada. Martin

288
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:48.240
asked the doctor if Michelle could leave on a two

289
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.600
week cruise just five days later, saying she needed time

290
00:14:51.679 --> 00:14:54.559
to recover in peace away from the children, but no

291
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:56.440
such crews had ever been planned.

292
00:14:56.840 --> 00:14:59.120
I'm surprised how quick Michelle is healing like It's a

293
00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.159
week after the surg and seems like she's you know,

294
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:04.679
up and around, yeah, and doing her thing.

295
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.159
Yeah. That seems like pretty major surgery that you would

296
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.320
want to recuperate for a longer time. On April eleventh,

297
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:13.840
two thousand and seven, Martin was at his office by

298
00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.879
six am, but he returned home at about eight to

299
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.919
drive Giselle, El, Sabrina, and Ada to school, honking the

300
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:24.039
horn impatiently from the driveway, not even getting out of

301
00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.960
the car. The girls had seen their mother that morning

302
00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:29.200
and said she seemed to be doing well and was

303
00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:33.480
in good spirits. Sabrina later recalled she was normal. There

304
00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.200
was nothing odd about her behavior at all. She was

305
00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:38.600
tired because she had just woken up, but we had

306
00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:43.440
a perfectly normal conversation. Just before nine am, Alexis called

307
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.840
to check on Michelle and was relieved to hear she

308
00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.600
was doing well and that her father seemed to be

309
00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:51.600
taking good care of her. Michelle said Martin had been

310
00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:55.240
exceptionally sweet. She planned to get back into her routine

311
00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:58.679
that day, taking Ada to launch at McDonald's and driving

312
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:02.679
the girls to ballet. Meanwhile, Martin dropped off the older girls,

313
00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:06.320
then Ada at eight twenty am. Between eight thirty and

314
00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:09.960
nine eleven, there's a gap, no phone activity, no clear

315
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.320
record of where he was. By nine eleven, his phone

316
00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:16.039
places him back at his desk. He had been gone

317
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.879
about ninety minutes, despite living just three miles away, a

318
00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:22.879
drive that should have taken no more than ten. At

319
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:27.919
nine seventeen am, he called Michelle and left the following message, Michelle,

320
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.039
don't you dare. Don't you dare go anywhere. Take it easy, please,

321
00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.879
I'm very concerned. You should just stay where you're at.

322
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.600
I'm coming home. I'm going to make you a sandwich

323
00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:40.279
and we'll have a lovely lunch together. But just don't

324
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.240
call anybody and don't go anywhere. Alexis was in class

325
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.279
when her father left her a message, Alexis, you need

326
00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:49.679
to call your mom. You need to call her right away.

327
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.840
She's not listening to me. She's doing too much. She's

328
00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:55.440
getting up, she's out of bed. You need to call

329
00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.559
her and tell her she needs to rest. Alexis was

330
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.200
confused because she thought her mom was doing well and

331
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:04.119
didn't need to be in bed all day. She called

332
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:07.359
Michelle several times throughout the day, but there was no answer.

333
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:11.440
With each passing hour, Alexis felt a growing sense of dread.

334
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:16.039
Martin picked Ada up from kindergarten at eleven thirty five am,

335
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.839
five minutes late, and drove her home. Ada ran into

336
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.640
the house, calling for Michelle, excited for their trip to McDonald's.

337
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.440
When she didn't answer, Ada went looking for her and

338
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.880
found her in the jacuzzie tub, the water dark and murky.

339
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.720
Her head slumped beneath the faucet, her eyes wide open.

340
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.480
Six year old Ada screamed for her father, come quick,

341
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.920
something's wrong with mommy. When Martin reached the bathroom, he

342
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.319
stopped short. The shell lay motionless in the tub, the

343
00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.279
water dark around her, her eyes still open. For a moment,

344
00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:51.799
he just stood there, surveying the situation. Then he turned

345
00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.440
to Ada and told her to run next door for help.

346
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.240
He dialed nine one one as he drained the tub,

347
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.680
his voice rising, his words tumbling over over each other.

348
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.960
The call was chaotic. He hung up before giving the

349
00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:07.640
dispatcher the information she needed. Because he was calling from

350
00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.240
a cell phone, his location wasn't immediately clear, and the

351
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:17.039
confusion cost precious time, nearly twelve minutes before an ambulance arrived. Later,

352
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:19.920
the dispatcher would say Martin had been screaming at her.

353
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.799
His behavior unlike anything she had ever encountered. He was

354
00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:26.960
so belligerent and challenging on the call, it was saved

355
00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:28.839
to be used for training purposes.

356
00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:31.799
When Martin was talking to the nine one one operator,

357
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.720
she was saying, are you doing CPR? And he said yes, hmmm,

358
00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:39.839
and well learned that he probably wasn't doing CPR.

359
00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:44.400
Okay. After failing to reach Michelle all morning, Alexis called Martin.

360
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:46.880
He told her that her mother had slipped in the

361
00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:51.519
bathtub and was unconscious, that paramedics were performing CPR on her.

362
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:54.880
Alexis rushed to the airport to catch the first flight

363
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:58.799
back to Utah, tears flowing freely as she drove recklessly.

364
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.799
She felt like someone had punched her in the gut.

365
00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:04.279
She was sure that her father had killed her mother.

366
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.720
Alone in her car, she screamed, he killed her, He

367
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.640
killed her, I'm sure. The first thing that came back

368
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:13.359
into her mind was her mom telling her, if anything

369
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:15.559
happens to me, make sure they look at your dad.

370
00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:18.880
And she had been there again, she's a medical student,

371
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:21.920
and she thought, Mom's doing great. I'm so impressed with

372
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:24.519
her recovery. Yeah, she had talked to her that morning,

373
00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:27.519
so from going to yeah, mom's fine, she said she

374
00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:30.880
wants to go to McDonald's later. So this was a

375
00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:31.640
huge shock.

376
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.240
Yeah, we'll be back after a break.

377
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:44.079
Pleasant Grove. Detective Mark Wright, a twelve year veteran of

378
00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:46.599
the forest, was a signed to the case. When he

379
00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.839
arrived at three zero five eight Mill Creek Road, the

380
00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:54.400
investigation was off to a rocky start. Little evidence was collected,

381
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:58.240
the bathwater had been drained, and few crime scene photos

382
00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:01.440
had been taken. Before Michelle was pulled from the tub

383
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:07.000
and resuscitation efforts had commenced. Detective Right found Michelle's discarded clothing,

384
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.119
a shirt, a bra, and Mormon undergarments that were wet

385
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.160
and stained with blood. In the bedroom. There were several

386
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.319
small spots of blood in the bathtub and on the

387
00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:20.000
tile floor. Martin was hysterical and getting in the way

388
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:23.440
of the paramedics. He was asked to wait outside, he

389
00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:25.839
wrote with the shell in the ambulance. His officers began

390
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:30.480
clearing the scene. Before leaving. Detective Right asked the McNeil's neighbor,

391
00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:33.880
Doug Daniels, to lock up the house, wanting to spare

392
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:37.279
the children from returning to the chaotic scene, Doug decided

393
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.680
to clean up. He wiped down the primary bathroom, scrubbed

394
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.200
the blood stains from the carpet where CPR had been

395
00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.960
performed on Michelle, and gathered the used towels, throwing them

396
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:51.440
in the washing machine. What the how crazy is this scene? Right? Incredibly,

397
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.599
the detective says to a neighbor, Hey, lock up the house.

398
00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.440
I know, I'm just baffled by this. Why would they

399
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.319
not secure the scene? That's just insane? Right?

400
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.599
And he I mean it sounds like he was almost

401
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.160
like in and out right because as soon as the

402
00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:09.160
resuscitation efforts they had taken Michelle to the hospital, sounds

403
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:10.359
like he was on his way.

404
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:10.799
Wow.

405
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.880
Martin's first message didn't go to Michelle's family. It went

406
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:19.920
to Gypsy. She's gone, he texted. Gypsy was confused. Michelle

407
00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:23.359
had been improving, what caused this major setback? And she

408
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:25.519
wasn't the only one who couldn't make sense of it.

409
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.920
Michelle's mother and siblings hadn't been called. They would learn

410
00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:31.240
of her death from someone who saw it on Facebook.

411
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.839
Shock gave way to confusion, then anger. Back at the

412
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:38.240
McNeil house, the older children began to gather trying to

413
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.920
understand what had happened. Michelle had been the heart of

414
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:45.279
the family. They were all heartbroken and would remain so

415
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.279
for years. Martin asked Damien and his girlfriend to count

416
00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:52.720
the remaining pills from Michelle's prescriptions, and then ordered them

417
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:55.519
to flush them down the toilet. He said the sight

418
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.240
of them made him sick. He missed her so much.

419
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.480
Wow, this whole thing is just blowing my mind. And

420
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.920
I can't imagine the family finding out on Facebook about

421
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.400
their daughter and siblings' staff. That's just well.

422
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:12.720
If you remember right, Martin had tried to keep Michelle

423
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:14.559
from her family as much as possible.

424
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:16.000
So wow.

425
00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:18.799
I think everyone knows this, but I feel obligated to

426
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.480
say never flush medications down the toilet. It sends them

427
00:22:22.480 --> 00:22:26.039
into the water system where treatment plants can't fully remove them,

428
00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.480
and it allows trace amounts to enter rivers and lakes,

429
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.240
disrupt wildlife, and potentially make their way back into drinking water.

430
00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.519
You can throw old prescriptions in the garbage, but it's

431
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:39.680
best to turn them into a pharmacy or police station.

432
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.240
And not to mention that you're destroying evidence to in

433
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:42.720
this case.

434
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:46.519
Yeah, that is true. Alexis came later that night with

435
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:49.039
a growing sense that something was wildly wrong with the

436
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:51.960
whole situation. She came into the house in a fury,

437
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.960
demanding answers. She went straight to the bathroom and asked

438
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.920
her father to show her exactly how he'd found Michelle.

439
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:02.119
When Martin demonstrated position himself over the tub, describing how

440
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:05.240
Michelle had been draped over the edge with her head submerged,

441
00:23:05.559 --> 00:23:09.119
Alexis stared at him, stunned it didn't make sense. She

442
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.720
pushed past him and demanded to see Michelle's prescription bottles.

443
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.480
Martin was quick with the lie the police had taken

444
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.559
them during their investigation. She went out to the garage

445
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.319
and found it all piled together, Michelle's wet, bloodstained clothes,

446
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.119
damp towels, the rented hospital bed, even getwell cards and

447
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.559
gifts discarded as if none of it mattered. Martin told

448
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.240
his daughter Rachel to get rid of all of Michelle's things,

449
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.440
but she couldn't bear to do it. She washed her

450
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.759
mother's clothes and took them back to her apartment, stashing

451
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.880
them in a dark corner of her closet. The children

452
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:45.200
were consumed with grief, especially Alexis. She wore Michelle's clothing

453
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.119
and perfume to feel closer to her. She wrote in

454
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:51.640
her mother's obituary, I am lost without you. You are

455
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.880
my hero, my strength, and my best friend. I will

456
00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:58.279
cry for you forever. You are my heart and my life.

457
00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:00.880
I will do my best to survive, but right now

458
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:04.000
I cannot breathe. I will try to make you proud.

459
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.240
I am broken now, but I will try to be

460
00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:10.119
brave like you. I will love you forever. Rachel made

461
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.920
a website honoring her mother, with pictures and videos that

462
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.759
would be a comfort to those who loved her. Vanessa,

463
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.000
the second McNeil daughter, who had struggled with substance abuse,

464
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:21.839
wrote to her mother, I have given up so many times,

465
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.759
and you never never gave up on me. As Aida

466
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.240
wiped away her tears, she vowed to try to be

467
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:29.839
the best mother to Ada that Michelle was to her.

468
00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.440
Her commitment to sobriety would be tested again and again

469
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:35.359
in the years that followed. I don't know if you

470
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:38.759
remember this from part one, but Aida is actually the

471
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:43.559
daughter of Vanessa and Martin, and Michelle adopted her. An

472
00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:46.799
autopsy was performed the day after Michelle's death. Other than

473
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:49.400
her face that was still healing from her recent surgery.

474
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.599
There were no unusual markings or bruises on her body

475
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:57.079
indicative of defensive wounds. Her brain and other organs appeared healthy.

476
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:01.200
Her heart was slightly enlarged, suggesting early heart disease, and

477
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:06.319
there was evidence of ethereosclerosis, including hardening of the aorta

478
00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:09.599
and other arteries. The lungs of a drowning victim are

479
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:13.319
typically heavier than normal. Michelle's right long waged six hundred

480
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.119
ninety grams and her left six hundred seventy, well above

481
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:20.559
the usual range of three to four hundred grams. However,

482
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:25.119
the frothy liquid often found in drowning victims airways was absent.

483
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.759
In the absence of obvious cause of death, the pathologists

484
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:32.519
concluded that Michelle likely died from a cardiac arrhythmia, pending

485
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:36.960
the results of the toxicology report weeks later. Toxicology revealed

486
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:42.400
four drugs in Michelle's system, hercocet, vallium, benergan, and ambion.

487
00:25:43.039 --> 00:25:46.720
None were president levels considered lethal, though it appeared they

488
00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:49.680
had all been taken shortly before her death, within an hour.

489
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:54.640
The pathologists ultimately concluded that Michelle died of cardiovascular disease,

490
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:59.839
citing hypertension and inflammation of the heart or myocarditis, which

491
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.200
dud to an unexpected arrhythmia and sudden death. Alexa knew

492
00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.200
the talk screen was off. Michelle hadn't while in her

493
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:11.200
care taken valium or ambient and why would Michelle have

494
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.079
taken an ambient in the morning.

495
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:14.240
That's a good question.

496
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:17.519
Martin wanted to get the funeral over as quickly as

497
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:20.640
possible and move on with his life. He was vehemently

498
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:23.680
opposed to having Michelle's family at the funeral, and forbid

499
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:27.200
the children from talking to them, although Martin did allow

500
00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:30.519
Michelle's sister, Linda Kloff to attend. The rest of the

501
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:34.519
Summer's family followed Martin's wishes, not because they respected him,

502
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:36.680
but because they didn't want to cause a scene in

503
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:39.799
front of the children. The day after the funeral, they

504
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:43.519
held a private service. One out of place person among

505
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.079
the mourners was gipsy Jill Willis. She even texted Martin

506
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:48.640
several times during the service.

507
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:49.160
Oh Boy.

508
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:52.319
At the funeral, Martin again used his cane to show

509
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:56.359
his vulnerability. He gave a eulogy that lasted thirty minutes.

510
00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:59.519
He missed the opportunity to commend his wife for her

511
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.640
dedication to him or their children. Instead, he talked about

512
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:05.279
his life and now he wondered what he'd done to

513
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.200
make God angry. Lord, I thought I was your boy,

514
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.920
he said, Lord, I thought I was doing a good job. Lord,

515
00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:15.359
are you there? A friend of Michelle said, it was

516
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.200
probably the strangest funeral I've ever been to. When Martin spoke,

517
00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:22.480
it was all about himself. He talked about past traumas

518
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:25.279
in his life, people he had lost, who died of

519
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:28.799
drug overdoses or suicides. It was all about him. He

520
00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.400
didn't honor Michelle at all. I don't know if he

521
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:33.599
wanted to make us feel sorry for him or amaze

522
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:35.720
that he turned out so well coming up through such

523
00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:40.000
difficult circumstances. But it was really just bizarre. It is

524
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:45.359
bizarre and disgusting. Michelle was a wonderful mother and wife. Yeah,

525
00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:49.880
all of his success was because of her. Martin's behavior

526
00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:52.599
struck many as odd, even performative. When he thought no

527
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:55.240
one was watching, he seemed to forget to use his cane,

528
00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:57.880
and he was seen laughing at one point, even remarking

529
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.960
that he was now a bachelor, felt jarringly out of

530
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.279
place for a man with young children at home who

531
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:06.240
had been claiming he was terminally ill. But as the

532
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:09.160
days passed, his health seemed to improve, and he never

533
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:13.440
again mentioned having cancer or any other terminal disease. Later,

534
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:16.119
a deep dive into his medical records revealed that Martin

535
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:20.039
had never been given a terminal cancer diagnosis, and investigators

536
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.400
believed that he concocted the whole story to make it

537
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.480
seem like he would have been unable to lift Michelle

538
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:29.359
from the bathtub. But he did have that one disease

539
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.640
that I don't remember the name of, but it just

540
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.559
affected his nerves and it made his toe inflame. Yeah,

541
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.920
it took Martin a year to mount a tombstone for Michelle,

542
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:40.759
and when he did, it was an iceore. He poured

543
00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:44.079
concrete at the cemetery to form an oddly shaped six

544
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:48.279
foot monstrosity of a tombstone that he etched himself. Later,

545
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:52.519
he added an engraved plaque to the tombstone. I can't

546
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:56.000
imagine how hard it would be to make your own tombstone. Honestly,

547
00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.240
it looks better than you would think.

548
00:28:58.559 --> 00:28:59.839
That's very bizarre though.

549
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.160
Yeah, probably just to save money, though, I guess. In

550
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:06.359
the days after Michelle's funeral, Martin was seen taking steps

551
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:09.559
to fold Gypsy into his life in a very official way.

552
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:13.960
He submitted paperwork for a military identification card, something that

553
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:18.319
would allow Gypsy to access spousal benefits through his service.

554
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.640
On the application, he listed her as his wife. On

555
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:24.839
the line for their wedding date, he wrote April fourteenth,

556
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.000
two thousand and seven, the same day Michelle was buried,

557
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.720
and doing so he set in motion a scheme that

558
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:34.000
allowed him and Gypsy to obtain government benefits they were

559
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:37.000
never entitled to, money that he would later be forced

560
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.319
to repay. Wow, so you were from part one. He

561
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:43.279
was in the military for a couple of years, then

562
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:46.960
he was released because of his late and schizophrenia diagnosed.

563
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:49.839
Oh that's right, yeah, and he and Gypsy. They did

564
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:53.039
not get married though, right, he just lied about this one.

565
00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:56.160
I think they may have had some sort of personal

566
00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:00.960
ceremony where they saw themselves married. After Michelle's death, nothing official.

567
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:06.279
Michelle's three oldest daughters, Rachel, Vanessa, and Alexis rallied around

568
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:09.240
their younger sisters, taking turns caring for them in the

569
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:12.720
aftermath of their mother's death. It was the most meaningful

570
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:16.039
way they could honor her memory. Martin returned to work

571
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.000
the following Monday. He had only taken two days off

572
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:22.480
from his job. When friends and coworkers asked Martin what

573
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.519
happened to his wife, he claimed that Michelle had pushed

574
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.759
for the elective surgery and wanted it done discreetly out

575
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.680
of town with a doctor they didn't already know. He

576
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:34.799
said the doctor had missed an underlying heart condition, and

577
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.400
that Michelle died from a reaction to her medications. A

578
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:41.400
coworker noticed that he was still wearing his wedding band,

579
00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:44.119
but it was different. There was a black stripe he

580
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.000
hadn't remembered seeing before. When someone pointed it out, he

581
00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:50.759
said that he'd lost his ring and felt naked without it,

582
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:53.480
so he'd bought a new one. But it seemed that

583
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:55.839
Martin had ditched his old ring for a new one

584
00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:58.279
to symbolize his commitment to gypsy.

585
00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.480
So that's evidence to what I said about they might

586
00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:03.839
have had some sort of ceremony just between the two

587
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:05.920
of them, because it was odd that he was wearing

588
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:06.680
a different ring.

589
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.960
Right, If you remember back to the first episode. Martin

590
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.880
had been charged with check fraud and other felonies in

591
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:16.240
the nineteen seventies. Michelle's mother had kept a file on

592
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:20.240
him for more than thirty years. Three days after Michelle's death,

593
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:23.960
her sister, Linda Kloff, walked into the Utah County Sheriff's

594
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.400
office with that file in hand. She was directed to

595
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:30.400
the Pleasant Grove Police department and told to ask for

596
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.920
Detective Mark Wright, the lead investigator on Michelle's case. When

597
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:38.480
Linda met with him, Wright was polite but firm. He

598
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.359
told her he believed Michelle's death had been an accident.

599
00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.599
Weeks later, after the toxicology report came back, he called

600
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:50.119
Linda with a final determination. The case was closed. Michelle's

601
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:54.240
death had been ruled natural. Linda couldn't accept it. Martin

602
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:56.559
was a doctor, she said, he would know how to

603
00:31:56.599 --> 00:31:58.279
cover up what he did to my sister.

604
00:31:58.920 --> 00:32:01.799
So it seems like there was was no investigation into

605
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:02.920
Michelle's cause of death.

606
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:05.440
Yeah, that certainly is what it seems like, especially with

607
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:09.680
the crime like the crime scene, not preserving that or anything.

608
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.640
And then yeah, just closing the books that quickly. Martin

609
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:14.960
told his older daughters that they needed to get on

610
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.440
with their lives and he was going to hire a nanny.

611
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:21.200
They were resistant to the idea. Rachel, who worked as

612
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:23.799
a dental hygienist, offered to quit her job so she

613
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:26.680
could take care of her sisters, but her father refused

614
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:30.039
their help. One day, Martin asked Rachel to meet him

615
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:33.119
outside of their Mormon temple to pray about finding the

616
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.720
perfect nanny. Martin went to the bathroom when a striking

617
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:40.039
woman with long, dark hair approached Rachel and struck up

618
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.039
a conversation. She said her name was Jill and that

619
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:46.680
she was a nursing student. Rachel wasn't interested in talking

620
00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:49.480
about nursing school when she was still in the heavy

621
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.680
throes of grief. Martin returned from the bathroom and was

622
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:55.960
very interested in Jill and encouraged Rachel to talk to

623
00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.839
her about attending nursing school too. Rachel realized the whole

624
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.640
was a setup. Later, Martin called Alexis to tell her

625
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:08.400
he'd found the perfect nanny, a nursing student named Jill Gypsy.

626
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:11.200
Jill Willis the woman Mom thought you were having an

627
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:16.079
affair with Martin's temper flared. He denied everything, then abruptly

628
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.599
hung up on his daughter, Alexis was left with a choice.

629
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:22.960
More than anything, she wanted to protect her younger sisters

630
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.440
and to hold her father accountable for what she believed

631
00:33:26.440 --> 00:33:29.160
he had done. She didn't fully know what he was

632
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:32.759
capable of, but she knew one thing she couldn't confront him,

633
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.799
had on not yet. If she was going to protect

634
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:38.640
her sisters and uncover the truth, she would have to

635
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:42.400
be careful, strategic, even if it meant playing along with

636
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:46.079
a man she believed was capable of murder. What Alexis

637
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:48.839
didn't know was that she wasn't the only one building

638
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:52.599
a case. Her aunt Linda was doing the same. Later,

639
00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:56.359
Martin called a meeting with Rachel, Vanessa, and Damien. He

640
00:33:56.440 --> 00:33:59.039
told them Alexis was no longer part of the family.

641
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:01.799
He was done with her, done with what he called

642
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:06.200
her speculation. Then he shifted as if this were all practical,

643
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:09.679
they would form a committee to choose a nanny. The

644
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:14.519
next day, four applicants were scheduled to come. Only one arrived, Jill.

645
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:19.199
The others never showed. The committee didn't support hiring her,

646
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:23.199
but Martin moved forward anyway. It wasn't really a decision,

647
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:26.719
it was already made. He was bringing his girlfriend into

648
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.840
the house. She moved into the basement bedroom, but it

649
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:32.960
didn't take long for the illusion to fall apart. She

650
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.320
wasn't cooking, she wasn't cleaning, she wasn't taking care of

651
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:39.440
the children. I saw her come and go throughout the day,

652
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:42.599
Alexis later said, I never saw her pick up the children.

653
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:45.440
I never saw her cook or clean. I saw her

654
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.840
following my dad around a lot. The only person the

655
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:52.559
new arrangement seemed to benefit was Martin. With his girlfriend

656
00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:55.599
now under the same roof, he had exactly what he wanted,

657
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.719
knights together after the girls were in bed, and the

658
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:03.400
occasional afternoon. But as a nanny, Gypsy wasn't just unprepared,

659
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:07.679
she wasn't even trying. The three girls, still grieving their mother,

660
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:11.360
were left to navigate their days without support. She didn't

661
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:13.800
drive them to school, she didn't take them to ballet.

662
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.719
She didn't step into the role that they so clearly

663
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.239
needed filled. Years later, Sabrina would say she didn't do much.

664
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.079
She made spaghetti once. That was the only time she

665
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.480
really cooked. She didn't do anything. She lived downstairs. Gipsy

666
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:31.639
kept up the ruse that her name was Jill. Martin

667
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.000
was sure to introduce her to friends and neighbors as

668
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.039
Jill the nanny, but they were often seen out together

669
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.320
and she was never with the girls. She wasn't unkind

670
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:44.159
to them, just uninterested. She was also busy finishing up

671
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:48.360
nursing school and nurturing her relationship with Martin. In May,

672
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:51.760
just weeks after Michelle's death, she decided to take Martin

673
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.639
to Wyoming to visit her parents, who were raising her

674
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:58.760
daughter Heidi, now twelve, as their own. Gypsy wasn't one

675
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:01.719
hundred percent honest with her her parents. She said that

676
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:04.480
Martin had been widowed in January and they had just

677
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:08.920
started dating. Vicki Willis later said, frankly, we were giddy

678
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:12.239
about Martin joining the family. Martin McNeil is a very

679
00:36:12.280 --> 00:36:15.639
impressive person. He's tall, he's got a bright white smile.

680
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:19.480
He holds the title of doctor and also attorney or lawyer,

681
00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:23.079
both of which are highly esteemed in American society. We

682
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:24.599
were pleased, of course.

683
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:26.960
He's tall, so you know, and that makes him a

684
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:27.480
good person.

685
00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:29.960
And he had a bright white smile too. After her

686
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:33.400
semester was over, Alexis returned home to Utah, which put

687
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:37.159
a damper on Gypsy and Martin's relationship. Alexis didn't have

688
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.239
a room of her own, so she slept in her

689
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:42.000
parents' bed while Martin slept on the couch in the

690
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:46.280
adjoining sitting room. One night, she felt someone touching her buttocks,

691
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.440
followed by the sensation of a wet tongue on her hand.

692
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:54.480
She screamed. Her father quickly apologized, claiming he had mistaken

693
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:57.800
her for her mother. It was an awkward and painful

694
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:02.679
situation for Alexis. Next day, Martin addressed the uncomfortable incident

695
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.199
with the rest of his daughters and told them that

696
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.039
they couldn't come into his bedroom at night or fear

697
00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:11.000
that he might mistake them for their mother too. He

698
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.440
would have to sleep with the door closed, which gave

699
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:17.559
Gipsy cover to slip into his room again at night undetected.

700
00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:20.679
No one was fooled about what was happening between Martin

701
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:24.920
and the nanny. When Alexis and Rachel confronted him, he erupted,

702
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:27.679
ordered them out of the house, and called the police.

703
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:31.920
In that moment, his priorities were unmistakable. He had made

704
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:35.360
his choice and it wasn't his family. So she called

705
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:38.239
him later and begged for his forgiveness, just so she

706
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:40.119
could keep coming back to the house.

707
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:44.280
So if you didn't think Martin was a sleeze bag before.

708
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:48.960
I had, that whole story is just shocking and creepy, disturbing,

709
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:50.119
very disturbing.

710
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:52.599
So if you're wondering how old the kids are, I'm

711
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.599
going to go through them really quick. Rachel is the oldest.

712
00:37:55.599 --> 00:38:00.000
She's about twenty seven, Vanessa is about twenty five, Alexis

713
00:38:00.159 --> 00:38:03.719
is about twenty four. Damian, the youngest biological child and

714
00:38:03.800 --> 00:38:08.760
only son, is twenty one. Giselle is sixteen, Ela is fourteen,

715
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:11.800
Sabrina is thirteen, and Ada is six.

716
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:15.599
I've forgotten they had adopted children from Ukraine.

717
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:19.719
Right, Yes, they had adopted three. Well, they had four adoptions,

718
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:21.519
but one of them.

719
00:38:21.400 --> 00:38:23.559
Didn't work out and maybe, yeah, she ended up in

720
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.760
another foster home. Right, We'll be back after a break.

721
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:36.639
After they were ejected from their family home, Alexis and

722
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:40.280
Rachel joined forces with their aunt Linda to investigate their father.

723
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:44.199
They hired a PI to learn more about Gypsy Jill Willis.

724
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:46.920
Since the middle of the night incident with her father,

725
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:51.480
Alexis had considered filing sexual assault charges against him, but

726
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:55.159
she knew she needed to be strategic. She waited, believing

727
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:58.039
that when the time came, it might give her leverage

728
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:01.519
to protect her sisters and possibly custody. Must have been

729
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:04.639
so scary for her though, knowing that the young girls

730
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.000
were still in the home right and she couldn't be

731
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:10.480
there all the time. Yeah, Terry and Susan, Michelle's two

732
00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:13.920
other sisters, came into town to visit Detective Mark Wright

733
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.559
at the Pleasant Grove Police Department with Linda. They laid

734
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:19.840
all their cards on the table and implored him once

735
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.760
again to open an investigation into Michelle's death, but Right

736
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:28.719
firmly stated the cases closed. Linda recalled, they were very rude.

737
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:31.000
They made us feel like we were wasting their time

738
00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:34.320
and putting them out. They were not interested in anything

739
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:37.559
we had to say at all. But that didn't stop Linda.

740
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.880
She and her daughter Jill Harper Smith, along with Alexis,

741
00:39:40.920 --> 00:39:45.119
started a full blown investigation, digging into Martin's past, going

742
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:49.559
back thirty years. Didn't happen overnight, but eventually these women

743
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:53.800
would bring him down. Meanwhile, in June, Martin purchased a

744
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:56.880
four and a half carrot diamond engagement ring for Gypsy.

745
00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:57.960
Four and a half carrots.

746
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:01.039
It's pretty big huge. They both coach the Mormon Church

747
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:05.800
about unsealing their previous marriages. In July, while in Wyoming

748
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:10.280
visiting Gypsy's family, Martin proposed, I've loved you from the

749
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:14.559
moment we first met, will you marry me? She happily accepted.

750
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.800
None of his children were present for the engagement. The

751
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:21.079
next day, he informed them by email. When they returned

752
00:40:21.079 --> 00:40:24.320
to Utah, there was no more pretense. Martin and Gypsy

753
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:29.719
openly displayed their relationship. In July, Martin, Alexis, Rachel, and

754
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.239
the three younger girls took a trip to California to

755
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:36.039
visit some family friends, the Bloodstoves. Once there, it became

756
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:39.280
obvious to Alexis that Martin was hinting to his longtime

757
00:40:39.280 --> 00:40:42.880
friends that they should adopt Giselle, El, Sabrina, and Ada.

758
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:46.559
Alexis was furious because she'd made it clear that if

759
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.920
he didn't want custody of the girls any longer, she did.

760
00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:52.519
While they were staying in the hotel, there was another

761
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.559
incident with Martin getting into Alexis's bed in the middle

762
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:59.280
of the night and touching her inappropriately. Again, she debated

763
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:01.159
whether she should go to the police or not, and

764
00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:06.039
decided against it. After they returned from California, Giselle sixteen,

765
00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:09.000
had made plans to visit relatives in her home country

766
00:41:09.199 --> 00:41:13.320
of Ukraine for the summer. Martin asked Alexis to accompany her,

767
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:16.440
then come back alone. He would take care of the rest.

768
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:19.880
Alexis agreed, but only after he threatened to keep her

769
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.639
from her sisters. Before they left, Martin gave her strict

770
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:27.719
instructions rang Jizelle's passport back to the United States. He

771
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.079
said he was worried that she might lose it. At

772
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.519
the end of the summer, Giselle was still in Ukraine

773
00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:37.039
with no airplane ticket and no return plan. Martin stopped

774
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:40.440
taking her calls, and without her passport, she had no

775
00:41:40.480 --> 00:41:43.880
way to leave. She was left there living with relatives

776
00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:47.320
who were already struggling, unable to afford another mouth to feed.

777
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:51.480
Gizelle felt abandoned and dejected from the McNeil family.

778
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:55.599
Wow, that is just crazy. Sixteen years old and he

779
00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:58.840
just leaving her in Ukraine with no way to get home.

780
00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.400
I mean, he doesn't care about any of his children,

781
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:03.360
but especially these poor adopted children.

782
00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:04.159
Yeah. Wow.

783
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.039
Soon after Martin announced that the California couple the Bledsoes

784
00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:11.480
had aggreated to adopt the girls. Alexis was not going

785
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:14.639
to let that happen. She moved quickly, having papers drawn

786
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:17.840
up to sue her father for custody. Martin went ballistic,

787
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:20.039
threatening to have her kicked out of medical school and

788
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:23.400
to ruin her future, but Alexis didn't back down. She

789
00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:26.639
was done playing along and if he pushed her, she

790
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:29.320
was ready to go to the police, ready to report

791
00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.760
the sexual assaults that had happened not once, but twice.

792
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.679
When Martin didn't back down, she threatened to have the

793
00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:39.079
investigation into Michelle's death reopened. The next day, the girls

794
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:43.000
were dropped off in Nevada at Alexis's apartment. She started

795
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:47.079
the process of adopting El Sabrina and Ada. Giselle remained

796
00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:52.079
in Ukraine. Emboldened, Alexis filed another lawsuit, this time for

797
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.840
the family home and Pleasant Grove. Weeks before Michelle's death,

798
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:58.719
Martin had transferred the house and other key investments into

799
00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:01.880
her name under the ruse that he was dying as

800
00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:05.559
executor of Michelle's estate. Alexis now had a legal claim,

801
00:43:05.639 --> 00:43:08.280
and she intended to use it when Martin tried to

802
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:11.239
sell the house out from under her. The lawsuit locked

803
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.719
the sale. In September two thousand and seven, Martin was

804
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.719
charged with two counts of forcible sexual abuse after Alexis

805
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.920
went to the police. Martin was livid, which led to

806
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:26.199
many contentious phone calls between father and daughter. Unbeknownst to Martin,

807
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:30.480
Alexis was taping the calls. In one conversation, he said,

808
00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:33.840
I'm still a sexual person. I have desires that need

809
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.880
to be met. Oh my god, I know, he totally

810
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:37.840
creeped out. Yes.

811
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:38.679
Yes.

812
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:42.199
Martin was also charged with witness tampering when Alexis handed

813
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:45.480
over another recorded conversation to police in which he told

814
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:47.960
her that if she dropped the lawsuit against him that

815
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:51.480
he'd hand over the girls. Alexis wasn't done with her father.

816
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:56.000
Determined to inflict maximum damage, she leaked paperwork regarding his

817
00:43:56.119 --> 00:44:00.679
nineteen seventy seven felony conviction for fraud that he'd never closed,

818
00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:03.400
and he was fired from his high profile job.

819
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:05.519
Oh don't mess with Alexis.

820
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:07.519
Right days before the trial was set to start for

821
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:11.079
Martin's sexual assault against Alexis. In April two thousand and eight,

822
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:16.039
the judge throughout the lawsuit, citing insufficient evidence. Martin had

823
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:19.239
never told Gypsy that he'd been diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

824
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.480
Now that they lived together, it became glaringly obvious to

825
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:25.800
her that he had significant ships in his mood, especially

826
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:28.039
with the stress he was under fighting with his family

827
00:44:28.400 --> 00:44:31.639
and the sudden loss of his job. Their fights escalated,

828
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:36.440
and Martin became abusive, hitting, punching, and kicking Gypsy. She

829
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:39.679
documented the bruises, called the police and moved out, but

830
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:43.039
not for long. She soon returned to the house, and

831
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:45.840
that wasn't the only problem they faced. Martin began to

832
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.679
see Gypsy as a financial liability. She had avoided paying

833
00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:54.079
taxes for years and owed the federal government thousands of dollars.

834
00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.679
If they married, her debt could put his assets at risk.

835
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.639
He wanted the marriage, just not the consequences, so he

836
00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:05.880
came up with a solution. He falsified Jizelle's birth certificate,

837
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:11.039
making her twenty years older. Gypsy Jill Willis became Jillian

838
00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:15.519
Gisell McNeil. Then he changed his will. He named Gypsy

839
00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:19.480
as executor and disinherited all eight of his children, well

840
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:24.079
almost He left each of them one dollar. Linda, Michelle's sister,

841
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:27.039
was able to track Gazelle down in the Ukraine and

842
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:30.000
helped her get back to the US. Jesseelle was both

843
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:34.719
angry and heartbroken. Understandable yeah, she wanted nothing to do

844
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.519
with any of the McNeil's, especially her sisters, whom she

845
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:41.719
couldn't forgive. Linda decided to adopt her. Martin made a

846
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:45.159
half hearted attempt to fight for custody, not out of love,

847
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:48.440
but to prevent Linda from having her. In the end,

848
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:52.119
Linda prevailed and Giselle never spoke with any of the others.

849
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:57.119
But as the adoption moved forward, the altered birth certificate

850
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.639
created a problem, one that couldn't easily be acc explained away.

851
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.480
It triggered a tangle of red tape that delayed the

852
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:07.239
finalization of the adoption, and the damage didn't in there.

853
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:10.880
In the years that followed, Giselle's struggled to reclaim her identity.

854
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:15.159
The falsified records followed her, affecting her credit and complicating

855
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:18.800
even the most basic parts of her life. The determination

856
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:21.800
of Linda and Alexis paid off when a new prosecutor

857
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:26.119
was assigned to Michelle's case, Doug Whitney. He was impressed

858
00:46:26.119 --> 00:46:28.800
by what the women had uncovered about Martin, and he

859
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.280
was willing to work with them on the investigation. Whitney

860
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:35.679
was shocked that when Michelle died, there was so little investigation.

861
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:39.320
Reviewing the documents, one detail stood out above all the rest,

862
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:43.000
the position of Michelle's body. The neighbor had witnessed her

863
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:46.719
slumped inside the tub, but Martin told police, paramedics, and

864
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:49.800
even his children that Michelle had been draped over the edge,

865
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:53.039
her face submerged in water. The lividity on the backs

866
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:56.679
of her legs and buttocks suggested that she died laying

867
00:46:56.719 --> 00:47:01.199
on her back, contradicting Martin's account. The important witness that

868
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.599
had never been questioned was Ada McNeil, now seven. If

869
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:07.480
you remember back to April eleventh, two thousand and seven,

870
00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:10.679
she found Michelle when she came home from kindergarten. On

871
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:13.840
September ninth, two thousand and eight, Alexis brought Ada for

872
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:17.639
an interview to the Children's Justice Center in Provo, Utah.

873
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:21.679
The interviewer, a female police officer, was kind and patient,

874
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:25.320
but Ada repeatedly answered her questions, I don't want to

875
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.400
talk about it. Eventually, she warmed up to the officer

876
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:31.239
and said Michelle had been wearing a blue shirt, pants

877
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:33.920
and a jacket. She described the water in the top

878
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:36.920
as brown and that you couldn't see through it. She

879
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:40.199
described her mother as laying in the tob her head

880
00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:42.440
was out of the water, her hair was going down

881
00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:45.480
the drain, all the water was red, and her eyes

882
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:47.079
were open. Ada said.

883
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:51.039
Next, the investigators met with the Chief Medical Examiner for

884
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:54.159
the state of Utah to compel him to change Michelle's

885
00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:58.159
autopsy report. He refused based on the level of drugs

886
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:01.639
in Michelle's talk screen being at the therapeutic levels, and

887
00:48:01.719 --> 00:48:03.760
he said her lungs did not appear to be those

888
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:07.159
of a drowning victim, although several cups of liquid had

889
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:09.239
been in her lungs during CPR.

890
00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:12.920
So the fact that there was liquid in her lungs

891
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:16.440
when the paramedics were doing the CPR and is important

892
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:19.199
because if Martin had been doing it, it should have

893
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:20.119
been expelled then.

894
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:24.440
Right When Linda learned of Martin's diagnosis of latent schizophrenia,

895
00:48:24.599 --> 00:48:27.159
she had always been suspicious and thought he may have

896
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:31.280
faked the symptoms to receive benefits from the military and

897
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:35.800
full social security benefits, and she was right. Since he

898
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:38.840
had been discharged from the military, he had received over

899
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:42.440
one hundred thousand dollars from them. As they delved into

900
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:46.320
his college years, they uncovered something startling. He had stolen

901
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:50.159
someone else's transcripts to gained admission to medical school and

902
00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:55.079
later law school, all without ever disclosing his prior felony conviction.

903
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:59.000
As they dug deeper into his employment history, a troubling

904
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:03.679
pattern began to merge across multiple positions. There were reports

905
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:09.000
of misdiagnoses and allegations of sexual misconduct each time he

906
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:12.960
moved on. Martin failed to disclose his past, his conviction,

907
00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:16.639
his history of mental health issues, and the concerns that

908
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:20.400
seemed to follow him from place to place. Martin McNeil,

909
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:23.599
it seemed, was a fraud in every area of his life.

910
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:26.400
Do you remember back to the first episode when we

911
00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:29.280
talked about the Zech fraud and how he had falsified

912
00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:31.840
some documents, then by having like this, yeah.

913
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:36.559
That's coming back to me. Yeah. When the investigators revealed

914
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:39.880
their findings to his daughters, Rachel said, the father that

915
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:42.800
I knew was a fictional character. It was an act

916
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:46.760
the whole time Alexis said, the father, we knew he

917
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:49.880
was just a facade. He betrayed us to our very core.

918
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:52.599
I mean, everything that we thought in our life was

919
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:55.920
just all shattered. It was a sham. It really is.

920
00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:59.480
It's been a whole sham. In two thousand and eight,

921
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.280
when blow ugging was at its peak, Alexis took a

922
00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:06.039
new approach and created a blog seeking information about her father,

923
00:50:06.559 --> 00:50:10.400
hoping other women would come forward with their experiences about Martin.

924
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:14.480
The response was overwhelming. She was shocked at the number

925
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.880
of people who reached out to her, the span of

926
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:19.639
years that had been happening, and the extent of the

927
00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:23.280
harrowing stories about her father. How had he kept all

928
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:26.320
his dark secrets? How had no one outed him to

929
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:30.159
law enforcement? There was one thought she couldn't shake. If

930
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:32.719
her mother had known the full extent of his behavior,

931
00:50:33.079 --> 00:50:35.920
she would have left, and if she had left, she

932
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.760
might still be alive. Martin decided that he and Gipsy

933
00:50:39.880 --> 00:50:42.639
needed to get out of Utah, but first he needed

934
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:45.280
to sell his house because it was involved in a

935
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:49.519
lawsuit with Alexis. That was impossible. He tried to secretly

936
00:50:49.559 --> 00:50:52.639
take control of the house by pretending Michelle was still

937
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:57.559
alive and transferring the property into his own name. Then Gypsy,

938
00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:00.920
using a new identity, placed a fake one million dollar

939
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:04.039
lean on the home to keep his daughters from claiming it,

940
00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:07.360
but federal agents caught on, set up a sting and

941
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:11.480
had them both arrested. They caught Martin, much to his surprise,

942
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:14.800
at the airport, coming home from a job interview in Washington.

943
00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:19.119
He had no idea he was under federal investigation. A

944
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:22.320
swat team arrested Gypsy at the house on Mill Creek Road.

945
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:26.920
Martin was charged with nine counts, including identity theft, and

946
00:51:27.000 --> 00:51:31.239
Gypsy eleven. He was also recharged with the two thousand

947
00:51:31.239 --> 00:51:35.360
and seven sexual assault of Alexis. Gypsy and Martin would

948
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:38.960
not see each other for three years. She was eventually

949
00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:41.760
free on bail, but he remained in jail while the

950
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:45.480
case went through the appeals process. Her relationship with her

951
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:48.920
family had been strained for years, but they now completely

952
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:51.639
turned their backs on her after learning the depths of

953
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:55.320
her involvement in Michelle's death. They fully believed that she

954
00:51:55.519 --> 00:51:57.519
was capable of plotting her murder with.

955
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:01.840
Martin, although there was never any definitive evidence found linking

956
00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:04.599
her to Michelle's murder or that she had known about it.

957
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:09.119
Months after his arrest, Martin fifty three pleaded guilty to

958
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:13.880
a range of charges, including aggravated identity theft, false statements,

959
00:52:13.880 --> 00:52:17.039
and fraud. In August two thousand and nine, he was

960
00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:20.280
sentenced to forty eight months in federal prison, with his

961
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:24.239
state sentences running concurrently. As part of his sentence, he

962
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:28.159
had to sacrifice his medical license for ten years, although

963
00:52:28.199 --> 00:52:32.199
because his degree had been obtained using false credentials, he'd

964
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:36.679
never be granted another medical license anyway. Gypsy also pleaded

965
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:40.599
guilty to aggravated identity theft and was sentenced to twenty

966
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:44.280
one months. Just before she was set to report to prison,

967
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:48.039
she left the state, raising concerns she might flee to Mexico.

968
00:52:48.679 --> 00:52:51.280
When she returned to Salt Lake City, she was arrested

969
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:54.760
at the airport and taken into custody. Gypsy was also

970
00:52:54.920 --> 00:53:01.039
forced to give up her nursing credentials. At Martin's final sentencing, Linda, Alexis,

971
00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:04.000
and Rachel were in the courtroom as he was led

972
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:07.199
away in handcuffs. He looked at Alexis and sneered, I

973
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:10.199
hope you're happy with what you've done, Alexis and her

974
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:13.639
sisters found a sense of peace knowing Martin and Gypsy

975
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.840
were behind bars, but they understood it was only a

976
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:21.840
brief respite. Martin was sent to the federal prison in Texarkana, Texas.

977
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:26.199
Somewhat surprisingly, he adapted well. He worked as an orderly

978
00:53:26.320 --> 00:53:29.519
and other inmates came to know him as Doc, often

979
00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:33.440
seeking his medical advice. His days at the minimum security

980
00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:38.320
facility were spent exercising and writing letters almost daily to Gypsy,

981
00:53:38.679 --> 00:53:43.079
who was at Carswell Women's Correctional Institute in Fort Worth, Texas.

982
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:46.119
So, I know what you're thinking here. Why are these

983
00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:49.800
two inmates communicating to each other that you were involved

984
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:51.800
in the same case, and normally that would be forbidden,

985
00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:56.280
but they were using an intermediary of Gypsies, so they

986
00:53:56.320 --> 00:53:58.840
were writing these letters through Carol Okay.

987
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:03.639
He responded to Martin's letters and declarations of love, although

988
00:54:03.719 --> 00:54:08.039
less frequently. Still, the two remained steadfast in their commitment

989
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:11.880
to each other. Meanwhile, Alexis was still fighting for the

990
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:15.840
house and Michelle's estate. Later that year, a judge ruled

991
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:17.000
that the estate should go.

992
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:19.159
To Martin, which makes no sense.

993
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:23.880
No, Damien was the only McNeil offspring, who supported his father.

994
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:26.719
He lived in the house on Mill Creek Road before

995
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.880
he left the state to attend law school at NYU

996
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:33.280
after he and his long term girlfriend, Eileen had broken up.

997
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:37.239
After his first year of law school, Damien, isolated from

998
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:40.320
his family and alone in New York City, was left

999
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:43.159
to wrestle with dark thoughts. I want to know what

1000
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:45.880
it feels like to kill without remorse, he wrote on

1001
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:50.239
his Twitter account. The Utah County Attorney's Office considered Damian

1002
00:54:50.360 --> 00:54:53.880
McNeil a ticking time bomb, someone who had been through

1003
00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:56.800
a lot in his life and apparently it is coming

1004
00:54:56.800 --> 00:55:00.199
to a head, and they warned NYU officials so that

1005
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:04.800
they should take whatever action deemed necessary to avoid future violence.

1006
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:09.320
That is a very disturbing and alarming thing to publicly

1007
00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:13.960
post on Twitter, definitely. Damien continued on with law school,

1008
00:55:14.000 --> 00:55:18.239
but his online presence was dotted with suicidal ideation and

1009
00:55:18.360 --> 00:55:22.000
clips from depressing films, such as Lars von Trier's two

1010
00:55:22.039 --> 00:55:26.119
thousand and nine film Antichrist, Darren Aronofsky's two thousand and

1011
00:55:26.199 --> 00:55:29.119
six film The Fountain, and the two thousand and two

1012
00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:32.960
film The Hours. On January fifteenth, on what would have

1013
00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:37.159
been Michelle's fifty third birthday, He wrote on Facebook. They're

1014
00:55:37.199 --> 00:55:40.519
all here, aren't they? All the ghosts, All the ghosts

1015
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:43.000
are assembling for the party. I don't think I can

1016
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:45.800
make it to the party. Damian took his life that

1017
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:51.280
day by overdosing on prescription drugs and asphyxiating himself. His

1018
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:55.519
sisters were heartbroken to lose their only brother. Alexis wrote

1019
00:55:55.559 --> 00:55:59.519
in his obituary, Damien returned to his loving mother's arms.

1020
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:02.199
Amian was blessed with a mother who taught him the

1021
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:05.679
true meaning of love, the true meaning of life, the truth.

1022
00:56:06.119 --> 00:56:08.239
Together we will live forever.

1023
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:10.199
As so said and devastating.

1024
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.960
In twenty ten, Alexis completed medical school and became a

1025
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:19.440
primary care physician. She and her longtime boyfriend, Brett Doxy

1026
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:23.599
married and bought a home in South Jordan, Utah. Instead

1027
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:26.559
of taking her husband's last name, she chose to become

1028
00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:31.880
doctor Lexi Summers, honoring her mother. Investigators were still piecing

1029
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.519
together exactly how Michelle died and whether Martin could be

1030
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:40.320
held responsible. The original pathology report seemed certain that her

1031
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:43.920
death was related to her heart, but further examination of

1032
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:47.639
Michelle's autopsy report led some experts to believe that the

1033
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:51.280
myocarditis could have been caused by the cocktail of drugs

1034
00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:54.800
in her system, and those alone could have caused her death.

1035
00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:58.039
It was enough to change Michelle's cause of death on

1036
00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:02.920
her autopsy to undetermined. In twenty eleven, Gypsy thirty four,

1037
00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:07.239
was released from federal prison, but still faced state charges

1038
00:57:07.239 --> 00:57:11.719
in Utah. To avoid serving more time, Gypsy pleaded guilty

1039
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:16.719
to multiple charges, including identity fraud, false statements, and filing

1040
00:57:16.760 --> 00:57:21.119
an improper lean in exchange for her cooperation agreeing to

1041
00:57:21.159 --> 00:57:25.320
testify against Martin. She was sentenced to three years of probation.

1042
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:29.280
The judge borrowed her from contacting Martin or his family

1043
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:33.960
and ordered her to complete a cognitive restructuring program aimed

1044
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:38.719
at addressing manipulative behavior. True to her word, Gypsy ceased

1045
00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:42.159
all contact with him. We'll be back after a break.

1046
00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:53.000
In twenty eleven, Vanessa McNeil was still struggling with addiction

1047
00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:56.039
to heroin. Unable to hold down a job, she and

1048
00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:59.840
her boyfriend resorted to stealing copper wire from construction sites.

1049
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:03.559
They were both arrested for theft and possession of heroine.

1050
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:07.119
She'd reached her rock bottom and Once released from jail,

1051
00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:10.360
she once again went to rehab, but this time it stuck.

1052
00:58:10.920 --> 00:58:14.880
Vanessa and Ada reconnected and later she had another child,

1053
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:17.400
a son. So that's some good news and all this

1054
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:21.159
darkness right at fifty six. Martin was released from prison

1055
00:58:21.159 --> 00:58:24.719
in July twenty twelve after serving three years. He returned

1056
00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:27.320
to the house on Mill Creek Road, and after years

1057
00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:31.159
of distance, his daughters once again found themselves fearing what

1058
00:58:31.239 --> 00:58:34.880
he might do next. Prosecutors were still working to bring

1059
00:58:35.000 --> 00:58:38.679
charges against him and Michelle's death, hoping to catch her

1060
00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:42.960
capture a conversation between Martin and Gipsy. Investigators obtained a

1061
00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:47.119
wire tap, but Gipsy avoided his calls and the warrant expired.

1062
00:58:47.800 --> 00:58:51.280
Martin's freedom was short lived. On August twenty fourth, he

1063
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:54.599
was arrested for Michelle's murder, almost five and a half

1064
00:58:54.800 --> 00:58:59.320
years after her death. Prosecutors believed they had a strong case.

1065
00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:01.960
What they he knew, there was risk much. It was

1066
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:06.519
built on circumstantial evidence and conflicting expert opinions. He was

1067
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:08.840
held on a one million dollar bond that he could

1068
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.519
not pay. The strain in the family was immediate. Rachel

1069
00:59:12.559 --> 00:59:16.119
suffered a mental health crisis and was hospitalized for several days.

1070
00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:20.320
In October twenty twelve, a preliminary hearing was held to

1071
00:59:20.440 --> 00:59:23.239
determine whether there was probable cause to proceed in the trial.

1072
00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:28.320
Over six days, two dozen witnesses testified, including Gypsy. She

1073
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:30.760
later said it was good to see Martin that she

1074
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:34.679
still loved him. Martin's daughters also took the stand. He

1075
00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:38.280
sat there expressionless. At the end of the hearing, the

1076
00:59:38.360 --> 00:59:41.159
judge ruled that there was enough evidence to move forward.

1077
00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:45.079
The trial was initially scheduled for March twenty thirteen, but

1078
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.800
it would be delayed several times. Finally, on October fifteenth,

1079
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:52.800
twenty thirteen, jury selection began. Five men and three women

1080
00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:56.880
were chosen. In Utah juries are only eight people. Did

1081
00:59:56.920 --> 00:59:58.480
you know that? We probably have talked about that before,

1082
00:59:58.559 --> 01:00:00.400
but I forgot I did not know it. The jury

1083
01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:03.519
didn't hear everything. The judge placed strict limits on what

1084
01:00:03.559 --> 01:00:06.960
could be presented at trial, excluding several key pieces of

1085
01:00:07.000 --> 01:00:12.320
testimony and context. Witnesses were barred from sharing certain statements. Alexis,

1086
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:14.440
for example, was not allowed to tell the jury that

1087
01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:17.800
her mother had once warned her, if anything happens to me,

1088
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:21.599
make sure it isn't your dad, the court ruled at hearsay.

1089
01:00:22.079 --> 01:00:25.400
Other details were also kept out. Jurors never heard that

1090
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:28.159
Martin had forced his adult daughters out of the home.

1091
01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:32.239
Even language was controlled, prosecutors were limited to referring to

1092
01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:36.079
Michelle as a victim except during opening and closing statements.

1093
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:39.960
The defense meanwhile, attempted to keep several of the McNeil's

1094
01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:44.559
children from testifying, claiming that they were unreliable witnesses, citing

1095
01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:48.920
mental health and addiction struggles. While those efforts largely failed,

1096
01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:52.480
they were successful in preventing Aida from taking the stand,

1097
01:00:52.719 --> 01:00:56.039
arguing her memory had been influenced by her sisters. At

1098
01:00:56.079 --> 01:00:59.559
the same time, the defense introduced an alternate theory, suggesting

1099
01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:02.280
that michelle death may not have been a homicide after all,

1100
01:01:02.599 --> 01:01:05.880
and even implying that her son, Damien could have been involved.

1101
01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:08.679
In the end, the jury was presented with a tightly

1102
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:11.639
curated version of events, one that excluded some of the

1103
01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:16.159
most emotional, controversial, and potentially revealing pieces of the story.

1104
01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:20.360
An inmate named Michael Buchanan later claimed that Martin confessed

1105
01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:23.719
to him, saying that he had administered a mixture of

1106
01:01:23.800 --> 01:01:27.679
drugs through an enema and encouraged Michelle to take a

1107
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:31.039
bath and then held her head under the water once

1108
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:33.960
the drugs took effect. Out of all the different theories,

1109
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.719
I think this one makes sense to me. Post surgery,

1110
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:40.679
a lot of people are constipated, and I believe that

1111
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:45.480
Alexis said that Michelle had complained about that, and Martin

1112
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:48.480
apparently was a fan of enemas, and so I.

1113
01:01:48.440 --> 01:01:50.599
Feel like that could have been convinced her to.

1114
01:01:53.199 --> 01:01:56.840
Michelle's plastic surgeon. Doctor Scott Thompson testified that he knew

1115
01:01:56.880 --> 01:02:00.519
the combination of medications could be dangerous, but because Michelle's

1116
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:03.559
husband was a physician, he'd believed that she would be

1117
01:02:03.639 --> 01:02:07.719
properly monitored and safe. In Utah, the jury is able

1118
01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:11.840
to ask questions to witnesses through the judge. Question one,

1119
01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:14.800
the jury asked, did it concern you that Martin was

1120
01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:19.679
acting as the primary care physician for Michelle? Doctor Thompson said, yeah,

1121
01:02:19.760 --> 01:02:22.840
I thought that was a little unusual. The second question

1122
01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:26.239
was did you raise any objections or concerns with Martin

1123
01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:30.400
and Michelle about that? Doctor Thompson said no, and Martin

1124
01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:33.599
had also consulted with another physician, so that made me

1125
01:02:33.639 --> 01:02:37.519
feel better. Anna Whitehall we talked about her. In episode one,

1126
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:40.519
Martin's former lover, the one that he'd told about his

1127
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:46.000
dark passenger, testified. What she revealed was chilling. Anna said

1128
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.760
that Martin confided in her over the years that he

1129
01:02:48.800 --> 01:02:52.960
had killed several patients mercy killings, he called them, but

1130
01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:57.079
in reality, he was appeasing his darker self. He injected

1131
01:02:57.079 --> 01:03:00.800
his patients with high doses of potassium to trigger cardiac

1132
01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:04.480
arrest and vince the method was undetectable because it occurs

1133
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:07.320
naturally in the body. He was certain that he would

1134
01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:10.880
never be caught. Andy began to suspect that that might

1135
01:03:10.920 --> 01:03:15.079
be how Martin had killed Michelle. Anna's testimony, though, would

1136
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:18.679
be torn apart by the defense. She'd been diagnosed with

1137
01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:23.800
disassociative identity disorder and was fixated on death, even becoming

1138
01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:27.320
pen pals with the son of Sam killer David Berkowitz.

1139
01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:31.000
I have to say I'm always baffled at what judges

1140
01:03:31.039 --> 01:03:34.519
allowed to be included and what they exclude from the trials.

1141
01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:37.960
It seems really baffling to me that they excluded things

1142
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:40.239
like being able to refer to Michelle as a victim,

1143
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:44.559
but then they allow Anna to testify that he told

1144
01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:48.239
her about killing patients. That just seems really strange to me.

1145
01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:52.320
We've talked about this before, but jurys don't predict the

1146
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:55.880
outcome of a trial. Often it's the judge right. Gipsy

1147
01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:58.519
testified for two days. It was the only time Martin

1148
01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:03.760
showed emotion. Even his children had testified. Gipsy largely defended Martin.

1149
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:07.239
She gave clipped answers, mostly yes or no, or I

1150
01:04:07.320 --> 01:04:10.599
don't recall. By the second day of testimony, the judge

1151
01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:14.079
determined that her answers appears to align at least partially

1152
01:04:14.159 --> 01:04:17.840
with the defense and declared her a hostile witness. So,

1153
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:22.239
after all that they've been through, Gipsy is still back

1154
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:25.400
in his campus. Right, She's still smitten with him. Over

1155
01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:29.400
thirteen days, the jury heard from sixty witnesses. On Friday,

1156
01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:32.039
November eighth, the jury got to work after lunch and

1157
01:04:32.119 --> 01:04:35.400
worked late into the night. At one a m. Everyone

1158
01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:38.840
filed back into the courtroom to hear the verdict. Martin

1159
01:04:39.000 --> 01:04:41.840
was found guilty on one count of murder and one

1160
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:45.599
count of obstruction of justice. He faced fifteen years to

1161
01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:48.119
life for the murder charge, an additional one to fifteen

1162
01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:52.360
years for the obstruction charge. His sentencing was set for January,

1163
01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:56.039
but before that he would stand trial once more, this

1164
01:04:56.199 --> 01:05:00.559
time for the sexual assault of his daughter, Alexis. Alexis

1165
01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:02.679
was now a new mother to twins, and she told

1166
01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:05.760
reporters with tears streaming down her face after the verdict,

1167
01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:08.880
We're just so happy that he can't hurt anyone else.

1168
01:05:09.239 --> 01:05:12.719
I can't believe this has finally happened. Once back in

1169
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.679
his cell, Martin pendus suicide notes, then sliced his thigh

1170
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:19.320
with a razor along his femoral artery. The guard found

1171
01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:21.360
him on the floor of his cell in a puddle

1172
01:05:21.400 --> 01:05:25.239
of blood. Parametics recalled and his wound was stitched. When

1173
01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:27.440
he was sent back to the jail, he was put

1174
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:32.199
in isolation on suicide watch. He appeared deeply depressed, almost despondent,

1175
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:34.480
and his attorneys argued that he was not fit to

1176
01:05:34.519 --> 01:05:38.039
stand trial again and needed to be evaluated by a psychiatrist.

1177
01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:42.840
Martin refused to undergo an evaluation for months. Finally, in

1178
01:05:42.920 --> 01:05:46.719
late April twenty fourteen, he agreed he was deemed competent

1179
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:50.199
to proceed, and a trial was scheduled for July. There

1180
01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:53.239
was talk of a plea deal, but Alexis refused because

1181
01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:56.239
she wanted to face her father in court. The trial

1182
01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:58.840
lasted just two days, and Martin was found guilty of

1183
01:05:58.880 --> 01:06:03.719
sexually assaulting his head daughter. How tough is Alexis very tough.

1184
01:06:03.719 --> 01:06:04.800
I'm very impressed by her.

1185
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:08.360
Martin fifty eight, received the maximum sentence for his crimes,

1186
01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:11.320
fifteen years till life for the murder of Michelle, one

1187
01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:13.719
to fifteen years for obstruction of justice, and one to

1188
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:17.519
fifteen years for the sexual assault of Alexis. The judge

1189
01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:20.880
said that his acts were due to unmitigated selfishness that

1190
01:06:21.079 --> 01:06:24.400
really shocks the conscience. He was given credit for the

1191
01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:28.320
seven hundred and forty eight days he'd served. Linda, Michelle's sister,

1192
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:31.880
said upon the sentencing, this is what we were hoping for.

1193
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:36.840
Its utter relief. It's indescribable. I felt Michelle's presence there.

1194
01:06:36.960 --> 01:06:41.039
It's such a wonderful feeling. On April ninth, twenty seventeen,

1195
01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:44.840
after serving two and a half years in prison, Martin McNeil, sixty,

1196
01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:47.639
was found dead on the grounds of Utah State Prison

1197
01:06:47.760 --> 01:06:51.320
near a greenhouse. Officials later confirmed that he took his

1198
01:06:51.320 --> 01:06:53.960
own life using a plastic bag and a hose attached

1199
01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:57.360
to a natural gas line. He'd recently lost an appeal

1200
01:06:57.480 --> 01:06:58.280
for a new trial.

1201
01:06:58.440 --> 01:06:58.800
Wow.

1202
01:06:59.199 --> 01:07:03.400
Michelle Summer McNeil's obituary red in part, her life was

1203
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:06.519
dedicated to her family. Her life was dedicated to helping

1204
01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:10.000
all around her. We know her dedication lives on her

1205
01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:13.599
outer beauty and talents were so great, yet nothing compared

1206
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:16.039
to the beauty of her soul, the light of Christ,

1207
01:07:16.239 --> 01:07:19.320
a flaming fire that burned so brightly for all to see.

1208
01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:23.079
Another friend said Michelle had an ability to touch people

1209
01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:26.320
that no other person could touch. She was loved and

1210
01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:28.800
adored by the people who shut out the rest of

1211
01:07:28.840 --> 01:07:31.679
the world. While the loss of their mother affected all

1212
01:07:31.760 --> 01:07:34.639
of the McNeil children, Damien never seemed to find his

1213
01:07:34.679 --> 01:07:38.079
way back after Michelle's death. Damien carried the loss of

1214
01:07:38.119 --> 01:07:40.360
his mother with him and was never able to truly

1215
01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:44.000
overcome it. Rest in peace, Damien, and rest in peace, Michelle.

1216
01:07:44.599 --> 01:07:47.199
What happened to Michelle might have been dismissed, explained away,

1217
01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:50.599
or ultimately forgotten if not for the women who refused

1218
01:07:50.599 --> 01:07:53.000
to let that happen. But weren't for the efforts of

1219
01:07:53.039 --> 01:07:57.679
Linda Clough, Alexis Summers, Rachel McNeil and others Martin McNeil

1220
01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:01.159
would have gotten away with murder. They asked hard questions,

1221
01:08:01.239 --> 01:08:04.360
gave their time, but their relationships and careers at risk,

1222
01:08:04.400 --> 01:08:07.639
and spent money they didn't have. Days turned into months

1223
01:08:07.639 --> 01:08:10.719
and months to years. Yet they didn't give up. They

1224
01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:13.119
loved Michelle deeply and they refused to let her death

1225
01:08:13.159 --> 01:08:16.960
go unpunished and her story left unfinished. They were fearless

1226
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:19.199
in their pursuit of justice for Michelle.

1227
01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:22.600
Well, that was quite a roller coaster ride. I'm really

1228
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:26.479
shocked that Martin ended up taking his own life in prison.

1229
01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:30.279
But while what a story and what a nice tribute

1230
01:08:30.279 --> 01:08:32.439
to the women who really made this happen that you

1231
01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:35.600
said there at the end. I mean really they persevered

1232
01:08:35.680 --> 01:08:38.960
and refused to give up, And that's just so impressive,

1233
01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:39.720
just such an.

1234
01:08:39.560 --> 01:08:41.880
Act of love, like the ultimate act of love. And

1235
01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:44.640
it was really moving that they did not give up.

1236
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:49.920
Absolutely after Michelle's death, Noel, who was the eldest adoptee

1237
01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:52.960
from a Ukraine, reached out and reconnected with her siblings.

1238
01:08:52.960 --> 01:08:54.199
Oh nice.

1239
01:08:54.239 --> 01:08:56.880
Yeah, I do have a few questions. Some of them

1240
01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:00.960
are just comments like what the hell happened there? How

1241
01:09:01.000 --> 01:09:03.520
do you let your six year old daughter find her

1242
01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:05.560
mother dad in the bast I don't.

1243
01:09:05.600 --> 01:09:07.840
I mean, that's one that's a great question, one of

1244
01:09:08.159 --> 01:09:12.079
many great questions of this this guy, just I am.

1245
01:09:12.439 --> 01:09:14.920
We talk about a lot of horrible people that do

1246
01:09:15.000 --> 01:09:18.439
horrible things, but this has to be one of the worst.

1247
01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:20.600
I mean, just everything, piece of.

1248
01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:24.199
Garbage, but not just ada, but he the impact that

1249
01:09:24.239 --> 01:09:26.439
it had on all of this children.

1250
01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:29.960
Oh totally. I mean just he ruined you know, Damien's

1251
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:32.880
life certainly and certainly a lot of the other kids

1252
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.920
I'm sure were traumatized and had to deal with that

1253
01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:37.039
trauma for years.

1254
01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:40.399
Michelle and Martin's marriage was sealed in the church, meaning

1255
01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:43.600
that they were supposed to be together for eternity. Do

1256
01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:46.640
you think that Martin believed in his religion?

1257
01:09:47.119 --> 01:09:50.039
I mean, I think most religions say thou shalt not kill,

1258
01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:53.600
and you know, so the fact that he did that

1259
01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:57.199
tells me that he was not a truly religious person

1260
01:09:57.239 --> 01:10:00.000
who really followed his faith. So you know, you can't

1261
01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:03.680
take anything that he did as being aligned with his

1262
01:10:04.640 --> 01:10:06.439
alleged belief system.

1263
01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:09.279
Was Michelle killed because Martin wanted a new life with

1264
01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:12.079
Gypsy or because Michelle had begun to see him for

1265
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:12.880
who he was.

1266
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:15.920
I mean, potentially both, but it certainly sounds like the

1267
01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:19.439
fact that he moved on so quickly with Gypsy and

1268
01:10:19.479 --> 01:10:21.640
you know, having her move into the house and everything,

1269
01:10:22.239 --> 01:10:24.880
that does tell me that, yeah, he was very anxious

1270
01:10:24.920 --> 01:10:27.520
to start a new life. So it wouldn't surprise me

1271
01:10:27.560 --> 01:10:31.039
if that was his primary motive. But yeah, also it

1272
01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:34.119
seemed like Michelle was catching on to who he really was.

1273
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.880
Gypsy's sister Julie called her a deceptive, malevolent, malicious, calculating person.

1274
01:10:40.479 --> 01:10:43.359
Do you think that that's why Martin was attracted to her?

1275
01:10:44.079 --> 01:10:45.479
He saw himself and her.

1276
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:48.960
I mean maybe when you talked about them engaging in

1277
01:10:49.359 --> 01:10:52.960
joint fraud and identity theft together, that tells me that

1278
01:10:53.039 --> 01:10:56.279
she was not just an innocent bystander in all this

1279
01:10:56.399 --> 01:10:59.319
like she was. Whether she was involved in Michelle's death

1280
01:10:59.439 --> 01:11:02.680
or not, I don't know, but she definitely was, you know,

1281
01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:05.399
involved in some shady things with him. And so yeah,

1282
01:11:05.399 --> 01:11:07.399
they did. They did have that in common for sure.

1283
01:11:08.039 --> 01:11:11.359
Martin's ex girlfriend or ex mistress, I should say, Anna

1284
01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:15.039
had said that he was involved with killing patients of

1285
01:11:15.079 --> 01:11:17.560
his As far as I know, that was never investigated

1286
01:11:17.600 --> 01:11:20.439
any further, and I'm curious how many people he could

1287
01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:21.520
have potentially killed.

1288
01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:25.600
Yeah, chilling, It is really chilling, and I am curious

1289
01:11:25.640 --> 01:11:28.000
as well. I guess we'll never know the answer to it.

1290
01:11:28.079 --> 01:11:31.159
So it's hard to say whether he really did those things,

1291
01:11:31.239 --> 01:11:35.439
or whether he said those things because he maybe had

1292
01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:39.439
an urge to do those things or you know. So

1293
01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:42.680
it's hard to say, but I wish we knew. Yeah,

1294
01:11:42.760 --> 01:11:45.680
and it should even though he's dad, and you know,

1295
01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:49.760
it's over to some degree and it should be investigated.

1296
01:11:50.119 --> 01:11:52.000
Well, if you remember, he worked in a hospital for

1297
01:11:52.039 --> 01:11:55.399
people with developmental disabilities and some of those people are

1298
01:11:55.399 --> 01:11:57.600
placed there and forgotten.

1299
01:11:57.920 --> 01:12:00.960
That just makes it even worse. That's really really horrible.

1300
01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:03.920
But they deserve just like if if he did do

1301
01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:07.479
those things, those victims deserve justice as well, even though

1302
01:12:07.479 --> 01:12:09.760
he's no longer around to face the consequences.

1303
01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:12.560
Well, the last thing I wanted to mention was Shanna

1304
01:12:12.640 --> 01:12:16.359
Hogan's twenty fifteen book The Stranger She Loved, O Mormon doctor,

1305
01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:19.800
his beautiful wife, and an almost perfect murder. That was

1306
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:22.079
my primary source. It was such a good source. I

1307
01:12:22.119 --> 01:12:25.880
didn't do a lot of straneous research, but yeah, definitely

1308
01:12:25.960 --> 01:12:26.760
recommend that book.

1309
01:12:27.079 --> 01:12:29.119
What a wild story. I know you said, this is

1310
01:12:29.159 --> 01:12:32.359
a fairly well known story. I wasn't familiar with it before,

1311
01:12:32.479 --> 01:12:35.560
but gosh, what a crazy story and what a horrible man.

1312
01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:43.600
M So I recently we're gonna have a little book

1313
01:12:43.600 --> 01:12:44.319
club discussion.

1314
01:12:44.439 --> 01:12:44.920
Oh okay.

1315
01:12:45.239 --> 01:12:49.920
I recently finished Stephen King's book eleven twenty two sixty three,

1316
01:12:50.119 --> 01:12:52.600
which you read not that lung a couple of years ago. Yeah,

1317
01:12:52.640 --> 01:12:54.479
and I can't stop thinking about it.

1318
01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:56.560
I love that book so much, Maybe one of my

1319
01:12:56.600 --> 01:12:58.239
favorite books I've ever read. Wow.

1320
01:12:58.560 --> 01:13:00.159
I didn't love it as much as you, but I

1321
01:13:00.159 --> 01:13:02.479
I thought it was more of a I shouldn't say

1322
01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:04.479
things or boy books and girl books, But it was

1323
01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:06.880
more like a boy book in my opinion. But it

1324
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:09.880
was really good. But I can't stop thinking about if

1325
01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:12.920
I could go back in history? Yeah, what would I change?

1326
01:13:13.039 --> 01:13:15.520
Yeah? That definitely makes you makes you think about things

1327
01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:15.800
like that.

1328
01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:19.079
So I'm asking you, if you could go back, what

1329
01:13:19.119 --> 01:13:21.960
would you change? You'd have to make the choice. Am

1330
01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:25.680
I going to change something personally in my life? Would

1331
01:13:26.000 --> 01:13:29.239
I not marry that annoying, redheaded nag of a wife?

1332
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:33.279
Or would I? Do you know, change something historically for

1333
01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:34.800
the betterment of society.

1334
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:39.000
I would probably just go buy stock in IBM or Microsoft.

1335
01:13:39.600 --> 01:13:41.640
So yet money answer would be.

1336
01:13:41.800 --> 01:13:43.640
Money is what makes you happy? Is that what you're

1337
01:13:43.640 --> 01:13:44.239
trying to say?

1338
01:13:44.399 --> 01:13:46.840
No, but money is a nice thing to have. But

1339
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:50.920
I I think it would be going back and changing

1340
01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:55.279
something like I think changing something historically would be very

1341
01:13:55.279 --> 01:13:58.239
hard because you don't know the consequences of what you

1342
01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:00.680
are going to change. You could think you're making a

1343
01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:04.159
change for the better, and you know what the butterfly

1344
01:14:04.199 --> 01:14:06.680
effect like, you could make one change and it could

1345
01:14:06.720 --> 01:14:09.079
cause all kinds of terrible things that happen. You just

1346
01:14:09.119 --> 01:14:12.720
have no idea, So I would be hesitant to change

1347
01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:16.800
something major from a historical perspective.

1348
01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:19.399
I would go kill Adolf Hitler as a toddler.

1349
01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:25.000
Well, that would be really probably a good idea. But

1350
01:14:25.119 --> 01:14:27.479
you know, killing a toddler would not be easy.

1351
01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:29.199
But it is hard because there is a couple of

1352
01:14:29.199 --> 01:14:31.840
things in my life that I would go back and change.

1353
01:14:32.039 --> 01:14:35.039
I don't want to go into that. No, Okay, not

1354
01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:37.199
marrying you, by the way, that would.

1355
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:38.600
Be one thing you'd change is not marrying me.

1356
01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:42.880
That's what the opposite of that. I would still marry you.

1357
01:14:43.279 --> 01:14:44.439
I would still marry you two.

1358
01:14:44.760 --> 01:14:47.359
But I've read a few other books that I really

1359
01:14:47.399 --> 01:14:50.199
have enjoyed. Recently, I'm trying to stay off social media

1360
01:14:50.239 --> 01:14:53.199
a little bit and reading more. I just wanted to

1361
01:14:53.239 --> 01:14:55.760
mention them as summer's coming, you know, people read more

1362
01:14:55.800 --> 01:14:58.479
they have more time off. One of them is a

1363
01:14:58.479 --> 01:15:02.800
non fiction book called Strangers by Belle Burden. A lot

1364
01:15:02.840 --> 01:15:05.119
of people have really liked that book. I read it

1365
01:15:05.640 --> 01:15:09.399
in one day because I couldn't stop reading it. Another

1366
01:15:09.520 --> 01:15:12.359
book that I read is called Good People. I might

1367
01:15:12.479 --> 01:15:16.199
murder her name right here, but pat Mina Sabite. It's

1368
01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:19.920
about an Afghani family that's living in the United States

1369
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:22.960
and honor killing. Do you know much about honor killing?

1370
01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:24.520
I mean, I know what it is.

1371
01:15:24.680 --> 01:15:28.640
Yeah, we should probably do a case on that. And

1372
01:15:28.760 --> 01:15:31.479
when we were driving, I was reading it.

1373
01:15:32.640 --> 01:15:32.960
Yeah.

1374
01:15:33.039 --> 01:15:37.359
Yeah. It's called The Road to Tender Hearts by Annie Hartnett.

1375
01:15:38.039 --> 01:15:40.159
I read about a third of it on our drive

1376
01:15:40.359 --> 01:15:42.960
and we've both been reading it since. I know, we

1377
01:15:43.039 --> 01:15:44.520
sound like the most wholesome couple.

1378
01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:48.000
It was really nice. I love it so far. I'm

1379
01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:48.800
really into it.

1380
01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:52.079
I highly recommend all of those books. So if you

1381
01:15:52.119 --> 01:15:56.119
guys have read something recently that you enjoy. Let us know, well, once.

1382
01:15:55.960 --> 01:15:59.760
Again you've wasted a perfectly good hour and twenty minutes

1383
01:16:00.039 --> 01:16:02.600
listening to Love Mary Kill, but we really appreciate it.

1384
01:16:03.239 --> 01:16:07.039
Please rate, review, follow and subscribe, Find us on social media,

1385
01:16:07.199 --> 01:16:10.920
or send us an email at lovemarykillat gmail dot com.

1386
01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:12.000
We love to hear from you.

1387
01:16:12.600 --> 01:16:15.000
Thank you so much for your support. Thank you for listening.

1388
01:16:15.079 --> 01:16:18.039
It means the world to us. Until next time, don't

1389
01:16:18.079 --> 01:17:02.199
kill your wife and don't kill your husband,