Sept. 22, 2025

Molly Martens and Jason Corbett - Part 2

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After the sudden loss of his first wife, Irish widower Jason Corbett hired Molly Martens to help care for his two young children. In time, Molly became more than just an au pair, and Jason eventually brought her and the children with him to North Carolina to start a new life together. But in the middle of a summer night, a desperate 911 call shattered that picture of domestic stability. What unfolded inside the family’s home would lead to years of courtroom drama, international headlines, and lasting rifts between two families an ocean apart.

Today’s snack: Irish chocolate biscuit cake

Support us on Patreon: https://patreon.com/LoveMarryKill

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I am Rich and I'm Tina.

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If there's one thing we've learned in over twenty years

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of marriage.

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It's it some days you'll feel like killing your husband, and.

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Some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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Welcome to love, Mary kill.

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Hey you, Tina, Hey Rich? How are you?

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I'm good? How are you?

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I am doing pretty good. Happy Sunday, Happy Sunday, Last

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day of August.

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Yeah, well, this won't be released till we're actually ahead

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from once in our lives. This is shocking.

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I think this will be released like September fifteenth, maybe wow.

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So yeah, we're a couple of two three weeks ahead.

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I want to give a shout out to mother Nature.

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Mother nature has been spoiling us with like the most

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beautiful weather.

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It's been so nice, so nice, and.

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It reminds me that humidity really does bring out the

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worst in me.

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It's been so pleasant, beautiful, just perfect.

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Yeah.

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Do you want to hear something that is going to

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outrage you?

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I sure do. I'd love to get fired up.

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Everyone loves to be outraged, don't they. Maybe you've heard

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about this the tennis player and the hat Have you

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seen this video at all? No?

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I heard about a guy in a sandwich this week.

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But a sandwich never mind, Now I want to know

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about this guy and the sandwich.

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Well, I think the story is a fellow through a

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sandwich at a National Guard person and indeed of that,

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and they were trying to indict him. And you know,

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they always say that you can indict a ham sandwich,

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but in this case they were not able to indict

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a man or the sandwich.

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Oh okay, well, this is maybe slightly similar. But this

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is at the US Open. This will be old news

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by the time people hear this. But this tennis player,

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I'm gonna butcher's name, Camille My Shack. He went after

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his He went to give his hat to a little

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kid in the crowd and he put the hat up

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and this guy, this adult, snatched it away and took it.

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And the tennis player didn't see it. He was just

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kind of moving on doing autographs and stuff like that,

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and the video went viral. The good news is the

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tennis player actually, when he's heard about this, he reached

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out on social media and said, hey, can anybody help

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me identify this kid. They found the kid and they

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met up and he gave me what about the guy? Well,

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so here here's the outrageous part. So the guy, it

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turns out he was of course identified, and he is

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the CEO of a Polish company.

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His name is CEOs are just.

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His name is Pyotr Sherrick, and he's an entrepreneur. No

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I can't, but he's like a multimillionaire. And so people

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identified him, and now like his company of course, is

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getting like just butchered online. He's getting like terrible reviews.

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And I'm not one hundred percent sure this is real

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or not. But apparently he released a statement or maybe

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an email to his employees and it said, yes, I

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took it, Yes I did it quickly. But as I

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have always said in life, the rule applies first come,

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first served. He said, I understand something may not like this,

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but please let's not turn this into a global scandal.

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I bet that's not real.

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I don't know.

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It's a hard time to be alive.

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It is. You don't know what's real.

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And it's going to get so much work.

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It really is.

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What is his company?

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His company is called what do they do? Oh, it's

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like a paving company. They make paving and landscaping supplies things.

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It's kind of weird. That if that's true that he

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doubled down.

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I know, I wonder. I've really tried hard to find

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out whether it was true or not, and I couldn't

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find it in any news reputable news site, so it

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might not be.

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But even in real time, it's kind of shocking that

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the crowd didn't, you know, yell at him.

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I think the crowd was dispersing. I think it was

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alf was over, so it was only on video that

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it got captured. But yeah, what a jerk, Like, who

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who does that?

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So I could see you doing that, To be honest,

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I did Detroit Tiger's game.

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Well what could you know? I could sort of excuse

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like in the heat of the moment, like you're not

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thinking and you just reach out and grab something or whatever.

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But then if that happens, then you like realize that

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that was a terrible thing I did, and then you

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issue an apology. But I think I wouldn't even do

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it in the heat of the moment.

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You would issue an apology for sure, and you might

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meet it, but then you'd be like, but I really

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am glad that I got this Miguel Cabrera four thousand

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home running.

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No, no, no, I would never do that. All right, Well,

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would you like a snack?

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You've been hype in the snack for days? Sure?

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Yeah, I think it is pretty pretty good, all right,

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Larry David. Well, as you know, our case has a

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strong connection to Ireland, and I found this treat that

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apparently is popular in Ireland. It is called Irish chocolate

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biscuit cake. Oh, is made with biscuits like digestive of

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biscuits and rich tea biscuits and like a bunch of.

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Chocolate my rich tea biscuits I did. Okay, so long story,

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but a listener told me like six months ago, maybe

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even longer, like, oh, you should do these rich tea

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biscuits because it kind of sounds like rich and Tina

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Bottom completely forgot about them. Oh that's funny, and yeah,

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they're in that basket up there.

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Oh well, now we have more rich tea biscuits.

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I think I saw some of the pantry and I

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was like, oh, did I put this in the pantry?

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That's honestly, they're not that good on their own, they're not,

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but in this that sounds really pretty Yeah. It's basically

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like the chocolate in the middle is there's it's a

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mix of dark chocolate, milk chocolate, and white chocolate, and

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then the biscuits are like crumbled up and put inside,

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and then there's a chocolate gnash on the top, and

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then I put a malteeser on the top, also as

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my own special touch.

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You you don't cut corners, do you? No?

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I sure don't.

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Would you like to have a package of mal teeser

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somewhere in our house?

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There's a few left, Yeah, a few. Give it a try.

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How did you like the chocolate biscuit cake?

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That was one of the best things you've ever made me?

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Might be the best thing you've ever made me. I

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would give it an eleven out of ten.

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Yeah, it's so good. It's very rich, like you can

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only eat a little small amount to watch me watch more.

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What's the good cream stuff?

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The middle is basically chocolate melted and mixed together along

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with butter, so there's butter in it. But it's really

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pretty simple. It's like all this chocolate butter and then

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these biscuits in the middle.

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Well, we have tons of biscuits, so we can make

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it again.

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Yeah, we sure can be really good.

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Thank you.

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Before we get back to our story, I know that

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you watched the Netflix documentary A Deadly American Marriage last

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night after we recorded part one without giving any spoilers away,

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What are your what are your thoughts on it?

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It was really well done. Yeah, it did seem like

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it showed both sides to a certain extent. I thought

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Jason is adorable. He looks a little bit like a hobbit.

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Molly beautiful woman. The kids beautiful kids. Uh. They were

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featured heavily in the documentary, which surprised me a lot.

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I'm getting emotional talking about it. Just they've been through

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so much. Tom oh gosh, just so unlikable.

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Yeah. He comes across Molly's father.

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Tom, Yeah, just seems like just to know it all,

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not a good guy. Molly seemed sincere, but I know

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that she has a history of untruths. My biggest takeaway

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from the show was the crime scene was horrifically bloody,

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shockingly bloody, like one of the bloodiest crime scenes I've

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ever I've ever witnessed, and not witness but scene. And

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do you agree?

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Yeah, that's ogod. I'm glad you brought that up because

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we'll post some pictures. But it's hard.

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When I was when I was watching it. I was wondering,

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and we would like to hear back from our listeners.

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Is it okay when west bloody crime scene photos or

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would you rather us? We don't because sometimes I air

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on the side of you know, if the scenes are

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too graphic, I don't you're some blood, But if it's

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like an abundance of blood, I think that might be disturbing.

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Yeah, it can be disturbing.

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I'm curious how people feel about that. The brick you

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had mentioned it too? Brick was it was shown and

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it was very bloody?

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Yeah? Yeah, Well, do you want to give us a

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recap of part one?

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Sure? In Part one, we traced Jason Corbett's life from

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his happy childhood and Limerick, his great love story with

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Mags Fitzpatrick and the heartbreak of her sudden death, to

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his move to North Carolina with his new wife, Molly Martin's.

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But beneath the surface of that fresh start, tension was building.

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Molly spun a web of lies, sought legal advice about custody,

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and even recorded Jason in an apparent effort to paint

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him as abusive. By the summer of twenty fifteen, Jason

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was making secret plans to return to Ireland with the children,

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and before he could act, Tom and Mollie Martin's killed

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him during a late night struggle. They claimed it with

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self defense, but the bloody crime scene raised serious doubts

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and left Jason's family demanding answers.

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Well, that was a great summary written by you. Is

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there anything that I left out of that that you

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think is worth mentioning?

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Well, we just talked about how bloody the crime scene was.

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The thing that I keep thinking about is that Tom

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and Mollie. You know, they say that it was self defense, right,

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It didn't, you know, just from the crime scene, it

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just didn't appear to be self defense.

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Yeah.

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And even if Jason was hurting Molly like you could

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have hit him with the baseball bat twice, but killing

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him till death didn't seem necessary, right.

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Yeah, No, I agree. Tom claims that he only hit

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Jason until he was sure he was subdued and then

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called nine one one, But obviously he was much more

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than subdued, though his skull was essentially crushed.

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Yeah, I'm guessing you were going to talk about the

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autop for sure.

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It didn't take long after Jason's death for the line

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between the Martin's family and the Corbett family to Harden

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into a brick wall. The first Corbett to be notified

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of Jason's death was his twin brother Wayne. On Sunday,

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the day after Jason's death, Sharon Martin's called him from

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Molly's phone. Her explanation was brief. Jason and Molly had argued,

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Molly pushed him, he fell, hid his head and died.

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When Wayne asked to speak to Molly, Sharon flatly said

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no and hung up. According to Wayne, the entire call

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lasted about fifteen seconds. Wayne immediately rang Tracy, who began

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alerting other family members. Several of them tried calling Molly

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for answers, but no one from the Martin's family picked up.

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Even without details, Tracy had a sickening feeling a certainty

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deep down that Molly had murdered her brother. When she

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finally got Sharon on the phone, she was met with coldness.

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Sharon told her that Jason had been abusive, that Davidson

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County Police had responded to his threats against Molly at

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least six times. That was false. Sharon also claimed that

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Jason had been drinking for twenty four hours straight before

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the fight that too, was untrue. There was no empathy

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in Sharon's voice, no sorrow. Tracy described her as sounding

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almost annoyed even be on the call. When Tracy asked

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if Molly had been arrested, Sharon snapped, of course not.

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How dare you even ask that question? And then she

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hung up. Tracy kept trying to reach Molly. When her

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calls and texts went unanswered, she finally sent a message,

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if you don't call me back, I'll start texting every

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one of your neighbors for information. Minutes later, Molly phoned,

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sobbing Tracy. Knowing Molly's flare for theatrics, cut straight to

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the point, she demanded to know what had happened. Molly

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said Jason had been drinking all day, that he tried

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to strangle her, and that she hit him and pushed him.

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He fell backwards and hit his head. She said he's dead.

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Before ending the call, Molly allowed Tracy to speak briefly

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with Jack, and then she hung up. For Tracy, the

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conversations confirmed her worst fears. The Martins were already working

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to smear Jason's name, and she knew exactly why Molly

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wanted the children. Tracy realized she needed to get to

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North Carolina as quickly as possible, and she would need

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help from the Irish government. Because Jack and Sarah were

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Irish citizens with Irish passports, She and her sister Marylyn

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booked immediate travel. On the long journey, Tracy managed to

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reach Detective Wanda Thompson. Tracy told her everything about Molly's behavior,

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about Jason's plans to return to Ireland with the kids,

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and about her belief that his death was anything but

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self defense. When the call ended, Tracy felt heard. She

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was reassured that investigators weren't simply taking Molly's story at

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face value.

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During episode one, you talked about Detective Thompson, and I

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believe that she told Molly clearly, this is self defense.

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Don't worry about it. We have you covered.

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She did say more or less that that it seemed

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like they were leaning toward self defense.

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Do you think that that changed the investmentstigation at all?

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It doesn't seem to, because I think that from what

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I could gather, the police pretty quickly realized that there were,

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you know, a lot of signs pointing in the other

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direction from self defense. So I don't think it did

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even in death, Molly tried to control access to Jason.

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Tracy longed to see her brother's body, but Molly was

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racing to have him cremated before she had the chance.

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Within twenty four hours of Jason's death, Molly had engaged

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a funeral home to carry out the cremation. Tracy discovered

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which one and called, pleading with them to hold off

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until she and Marylyn arrived, so Molly switched to another

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funeral home. Tracy tracked that one down, too, once again

278
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begging them not to proceed. When Tracy and Marilyn finally

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made it to North Carolina, they went straight to the

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funeral home, but the staff refused to let them view

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Jason's remains. They said they had explicit instructions from his

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legal next of kin Molly to deny access. Desperate, Tracy

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and Marylyn called Sharon Martin's, hoping for compassion. Sharon's re

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response was blunt, talk to your lawyers, so they did.

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The sisters hired an attorney of their own, and after

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five days a deal was reached. Malli would allow them

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to see Jason and take his body home to Ireland,

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but only if the Corbett family agreed to pay all

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the funeral costs in both the US and Ireland. Reluctantly,

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Tracy agreed. When she finally saw Jason's body, she was shaken.

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His facial features looked altered. She didn't yet know the

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full extent of his injuries or how much reconstructive work

293
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.320
the mortuary staff had been forced to do on his

294
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skull just to make him viewable. Meanwhile, Molly arranged a

295
00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:38.679
memorial service for Jason in North Carolina. The Corbetts were

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told they were not welcome. The Martins even hired off

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duty police officers to serve as security at the service.

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Why you know, I think just that the lines were

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00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:51.720
drawn very clearly, very quickly. In this case. The two

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families were not going to see eye to eye, and

301
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they were basically going to be enemies from this point forward.

302
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Just four days after Jason's death, his children, Jack nearly eleven,

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and Sarah nearly nine, were taken to the Dragonfly House,

304
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a child advocacy center, to be interviewed by social workers.

305
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In the days leading up to the interviews, they had

306
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been in Molly's care. Both children told stories that closely

307
00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:19.600
mirrored Molly's version of events. Jack said his father often

308
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.600
got angry with Molly over small things like bills or

309
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:25.639
leaving lights on, and that he had seen Jason hit

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or push her once or twice. Quote he would physically

311
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and verbally hurt my mom. Jack explained words that some

312
00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:36.559
would later note sounded less like an eleven year old's

313
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phrasing and more like an adult's. Jack had been asleep

314
00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:43.159
during the struggle that killed his father, yet in his

315
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:47.240
interview he recited almost the exact same account that Molly

316
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:51.559
had given to police. Sarah had a nightmare, Jason became furious.

317
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He screamed at Molly, Molly screamed back, and Tom rushed

318
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upstairs with the bat. Jason grabbed the bat, swung at Tom,

319
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and then Molly hit him with a brick. It hit

320
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:04.600
his temple right here, Jack said, pointing, and he died.

321
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When asked how he knew Sarah had a nightmare, something

322
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.080
he couldn't have witnessed, Jack admitted, my mom told me.

323
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He also explained the presence of the brick in Molly's bedroom.

324
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Molly had bought pavers weeks earlier, he said, with plans

325
00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.399
to paint them and use them as decorative edging for

326
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.240
flowers in the yard. She had asked Jack to bring

327
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.559
one inside so it wouldn't get wet in.

328
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.279
The rain, although I did read later that it hadn't

329
00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:31.200
rained at all that day, And I don't think anyone

330
00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:32.279
really checked on that.

331
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.559
To why would check the weather, why would she ask

332
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.039
him to bring one brick in?

333
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:40.279
It's a great question. I don't know. I can't answer that.

334
00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:42.879
I think you might have mentioned this in part one,

335
00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:45.600
but it doesn't explain why there was a brick on

336
00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.080
her bedside table, No, it really doesn't.

337
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:51.080
And normally the kids did arts and crafts projects in

338
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.720
the kitchen, on the island, in the kitchen, so it's

339
00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.519
also strange that Molly would have told Jack to bring

340
00:16:56.679 --> 00:16:59.720
the paper in and put it in their bedroom.

341
00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.399
Zara's account was strikingly similar to her brothers. She said

342
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.519
her dad got angry for ridiculous reasons and that she

343
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.799
had seen him hit Molly once. She described her nightmares

344
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and how Jason would become angry if she woke him,

345
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and the night of his death, she said she dreamed

346
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that the fairies on her sheets turned into spiders and lizards.

347
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She went to her parents' bedroom, Molly got up to

348
00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:24.240
change the sheets, and Jason became furious, leading to the

349
00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:29.359
fatal fight. Two children, Two stories, both consistent with Molly's,

350
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:35.240
both inconsistent with what investigators believed actually happened. The fire

351
00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:39.160
for custody of Jason's children began almost immediately. Within thirty

352
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:42.960
hours of his death, Molly's lawyers had already filed for guardianship,

353
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custody and even adoption. She secured an ex parte order

354
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granting her temporary custody on the grounds that Tracy might

355
00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.440
kidnap the children and take them back to Ireland. But

356
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Tracy was determined. She had already reached out to Irish diplomats,

357
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pressing for support at the highest levels. She even contacted

358
00:18:02.359 --> 00:18:06.599
Ireland's Minister of Foreign Affairs, directly warning him quote, if

359
00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.640
anything happens to Jason's children while in Molly's care, I

360
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:14.160
will hold you responsible. He reassured her that the full

361
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.000
resources of the Irish state would be behind her. After

362
00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.039
arriving in North Carolina, Tracy learned of Molly's filings. She

363
00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.400
quickly retained a lawyer who submitted Jason's will to the court.

364
00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:30.039
The document made Jason's wishes clear if anything happened to him,

365
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.519
guardianship of Jack and Sarah would go to Tracy and

366
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:38.279
her husband, Dave. Molly was not mentioned. A custody hearing

367
00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:41.240
was set for August fourteenth, just under two weeks after

368
00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:45.400
Jason's death. It was contentious from the start. Tracy testified

369
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:49.960
for five hours under sharp cross examination, with Molly's attorneys

370
00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.880
trying to paint her as a vindictive sister bent on revenge. Molly,

371
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.359
they argued, was the true victim. Molly's side brought in

372
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:00.319
friends who testified about what a wonderful parent she wants was.

373
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They emphasized that Sarah had no memory of Mags and

374
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.960
that Molly was the only mother she had ever known.

375
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:10.200
Mollie herself minimized her mental health history, admitting that she

376
00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:13.799
had once been diagnosed as bipolar at fifteen, but claiming

377
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:18.039
it was a misdiagnosis. Tracy's witnesses told a different story,

378
00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:23.160
one of volatility, angry outbursts, and erratic behavior. The arguments

379
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:27.079
were fierce. Mollie's team's stress stability that she had been

380
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.400
the one taking the kids to their appointments, preparing their meals,

381
00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:33.720
running their day to day lives. Tracy's team pointed to

382
00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.480
Jason's will the children's Irish citizenship and the fact that

383
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:40.799
Mollie had never adopted them. It also weighed in Tracy

384
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:43.759
and Dave's favor that they were trained foster parents and

385
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:47.039
they had already raised two children of their own. After

386
00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:50.759
deliberating over the weekend, the judge issued his order. Jack

387
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.319
and Sarah were to be removed from Molly's care. Temporary

388
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:58.279
custody would go to Tracy and Dave. The handover was wrenching.

389
00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.920
Social services official and police officers arrived at the home

390
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:06.200
of Molly's uncle Bobby, where the family was staying. Molly screamed,

391
00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:09.039
please don't take my babies. As Jack and Sarah cried,

392
00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:11.599
clinging to her, They looked to her for comfort, but

393
00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.759
she was collapsing onto the pavement, wailing and hyperventilating. The

394
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.559
children were taken instead to Tracy and Dave, who were

395
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:21.680
waiting at a nearby hotel. At first, Jack and Sarah

396
00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:24.720
were wary. Molly had warned them that Tracy and Dave

397
00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:28.279
would take them away forever, but gradually they warmed, sensing

398
00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:31.319
the stability and love the couple offered. A day later,

399
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:35.119
a judge finalized the ruling the children could return to Ireland.

400
00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:39.160
He explained his reasoning plainly. Jason and Maggs would have

401
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.279
won and their children raised in their homeland, surrounded by

402
00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:46.519
Irish culture, religion, and tradition. For the Corbett family, it

403
00:20:46.599 --> 00:20:49.640
was the first step toward justice and the first step

404
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.559
in bringing Jason's children home.

405
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.640
Such a tough, tough situation for those kids. Her heart

406
00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:57.880
just goes out to him, you know, they were so

407
00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:01.359
used to they were living with Jason and Molly, Jason's

408
00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:04.519
ow gone, and Molly really was the only mother that

409
00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:08.119
they had known. Or Jack probably had some vague memories

410
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.759
of Mags, but probably not much.

411
00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:13.880
Yeah, definitely a heart wrenching scene. And Molly probably could

412
00:21:13.880 --> 00:21:16.279
have made it easier on the children. I can understand

413
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:20.400
how she was heartbroken too, but she wasn't going to win,

414
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:23.240
so she could have, you know, said, these are nice people.

415
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:24.880
You can go with them. They're going to take good

416
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.839
care of you. I'll call you, I'll be there for you.

417
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:32.119
But you know, she chose trauma instead. We'll be back

418
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:33.000
after a break.

419
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.519
For Tracy and Dave, winning custody was only half the battle.

420
00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:46.599
Getting the children safely out of the United States might

421
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.240
not be so simple. There was still the risk that

422
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:52.799
Molly's legal team could file a challenge to delay their departure,

423
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:55.319
but to be effective, the paperwork would have to be

424
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.799
served directly to Tracy and Dave. That meant if they

425
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:01.440
could stay a step ahead, they could get the children home.

426
00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:04.759
What followed played out like something from a spy novel.

427
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:08.079
Word reached them that members of Molly's family and legal

428
00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:12.319
team had been spotted at Charlotte Douglas International Airport asking

429
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.519
airline staff about passenger lists for flights to Dublin. Irish

430
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:20.720
diplomats working with Tracy and Dave quickly shifted plans. Instead

431
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.039
of flying out of Charlotte, they were told to drive

432
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.640
to Greensboro, catch a flight to Washington, DC, and then

433
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.119
regroup there. In Washington, they checked into a hotel under

434
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.839
assumed names. The next day, Irish officials advised them to

435
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.200
re route again, this time to New York. With two

436
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:40.039
major international airports, it would be harder for anyone to

437
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:43.599
track them. The Irish consulate booked train tickets to Newark,

438
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:46.720
and from there the family finally boarded a flight to Dublin.

439
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.319
Wow I Know. Tracy and her book wrote about the

440
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.119
palpable relief when the wheels of the plane finally lifted

441
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:57.880
off the ground from New York to Dublin, because I

442
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.319
think up until then it was just pure stress. US

443
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:04.160
Irish Embassy staff traveled with them every step of the way,

444
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.759
fulfilling the Foreign Minister's promised that the full resources of

445
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.920
the Irish state would stand behind them. When Jack and

446
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:14.119
Sarah landed in Dublin, they were met with an extraordinary sight.

447
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:17.720
The case had dominated headlines, and hundreds of people turned

448
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:21.079
out at the airport holding signs welcoming the children home.

449
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:24.599
For Sarah, the joy was immediate. She ran into the

450
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:28.839
arms of her granddad, John Corbett. Jack, though, was devastated.

451
00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:31.839
Deep down, he had been clinging to a child's hope

452
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:34.839
that their father might somehow be waiting for them in Ireland.

453
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:37.759
When he realized Jason wasn't there, the full weight of

454
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.759
his loss finally broke over him. Days later, Jason's family

455
00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.359
held a memorial service in Limerick. Tracy gave the eulogy.

456
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.519
She closed with one of Jason's favorite sayings, how lucky

457
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.160
am I to have had something that makes saying goodbye

458
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:55.640
so hard? Jason Corbett was laid to rest beside the

459
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.240
great love of his life, his soulmate, Mags.

460
00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:02.559
So the custody case really strained relations between Ireland and

461
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:03.880
the United States for a time.

462
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:07.359
Yeah, it really did. People were definitely taking sides depending

463
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:10.880
on which country you live in. Back in Limerick, Tracy

464
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.559
and Dave leaned on their training as foster parents to

465
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:18.160
help two deeply traumatized children. They arranged counseling immediately, but

466
00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.720
trust didn't come easily. Both Jack and Sarah had already

467
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:25.799
lost so much. One night, Sarah asked Tracy quietly, how

468
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:29.160
is it possible that I've now lost three parents? Jack

469
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:32.480
struggled most in those first months, At nearly eleven, He

470
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:36.000
felt uprooted, He missed his friends in America, his school,

471
00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:40.039
his sports, and painfully, he even missed Mollie. Tracy and

472
00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:43.240
Dave believed it was best to cut off contact. In

473
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:47.400
their view, Molly had killed Jason and continued communication would

474
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:51.240
only confuse and harm the children. Molly, however, was determined

475
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.400
to maintain a presence in their lives. Just over a

476
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.079
month after Jason's death, Tracy received an unusual call from

477
00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:02.559
a small aviation advertising company at Shannon Airport. Someone in

478
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:05.720
the US had requested a plane fly a banner over

479
00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:09.440
Jack and Sarah's school. The banner was to read Jack

480
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:14.119
and Sarah, Happy Birthday, Love Mommy. Suspicious, the company reached

481
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:17.359
out to Tracy. Once they learned the background, they refused

482
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.759
the contract. Words spread quickly and other companies in the

483
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:24.480
region turned Molly down as well. The Martin's family even

484
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:27.680
contacted the Limerick Leader newspaper, hoping to buy a half

485
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:31.720
page ad. The newspaper declined, but Molly found ways to

486
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:35.480
reach out publicly. She began posting messages on social media.

487
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.240
It has been three weeks since you were taken from me.

488
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.000
I wish I could hold you. Oh babies, I love

489
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.759
you so much. It hurts so much thinking of you

490
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:47.359
and wondering what you are doing. Meanwhile, Tracy, Dave and

491
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:50.759
other relatives were inundated with friend requests from people in

492
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:54.039
the US. They soon realized that they were acquaintances of

493
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:57.880
Molly's trying to gather information about the children. Molly even

494
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.720
sent friend requests directly to some of Jack and Sarah's classmates.

495
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:06.000
The Irish police took the situation seriously. They placed Jack

496
00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:09.279
and Sarah in their national Alert system, meaning that if

497
00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:12.599
Tracy or Dave ever raised in alarm authorities could lock

498
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.599
down the entire area within minutes to prevent any attempted abduction.

499
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.240
Over time, the children began to settle. They adapted to

500
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:23.480
their new home and their new family. Slowly, they learned

501
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:26.160
to trust again and began to feel loved and secure

502
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:27.839
in Tracy and Dave's care.

503
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:30.440
While Jack and Sarah were beginning to adjust to their

504
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.440
life in Ireland, the investigation into Jason's death pressed forward.

505
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:38.960
The autopsy cataloged an appalling list of injuries. Jason had

506
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.319
abrasions on his forehead and beneath his eye, bruising on

507
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:46.079
his shoulder, blades, injuries to his arms, legs, and torso.

508
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:50.039
His nose was broken, but the most devastating damage was

509
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:53.440
to his head. The medical examiner couldn't determine the exact

510
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.759
number of lows, at least twelve, some landing in the

511
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.799
same spot. The force had been so severe that during

512
00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:03.880
the examination a piece of Jason's skull actually fell onto

513
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:08.319
the table. It would have taken extraordinary strength or sustained

514
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:13.279
repeated blows to cause that level of destruction. Toxicology results

515
00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.720
raised further questions. Molly had claimed that Jason had been

516
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:20.039
drinking heavily for six hours straight that evening, and Tom

517
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:23.440
said he appeared obviously drunk when they arrived at the house.

518
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:27.079
Yet Jason's blood alcohol was just point zero two percent,

519
00:27:27.400 --> 00:27:31.240
which is way below the legal limit. Correct Now, alcohol

520
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:34.599
metabolizes differently for everyone, but the numbers didn't add up.

521
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.960
If Jason had stopped drinking around ten pm and died

522
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.519
around three am, his BAC earlier in the evening would

523
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.119
likely have been around point one zero. Legally impaired, yes,

524
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.720
but nowhere near what you'd expect after six straight hours

525
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:51.720
of drinking, especially not for a man of Jason's size

526
00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:54.960
around two hundred and sixty pounds. Then came something even

527
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:59.039
more puzzling. Toxicology revealed a small amount of trazodone in

528
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:03.119
Jason's system, zero point five milligrams per leader, below the

529
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:08.640
therapeutic range. Trazodone is an antidepressant sometimes prescribed to treat himsomnia,

530
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:11.599
but Jason had never been known to struggle with sleep.

531
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:15.599
In fact, he'd never been prescribed trasidone at all. Molly

532
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.440
had picked up a prescription for herself, though, just three

533
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:19.359
days earlier.

534
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:22.160
Well, the question, of course, is why would Jason have

535
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.880
that in his system if it was a prescription that

536
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:26.240
Molly had, Right.

537
00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:28.079
But if Molly was going to drug him, would she

538
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:30.039
give him more than half a dose?

539
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.119
Right? That was kind of contrary to that as well. Right,

540
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:35.680
it's a small door, less than a therapeutic dose.

541
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:39.160
So yet, unless could it have worn off? Was that

542
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.400
just like the residual amount in his system.

543
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:44.039
Yeah, I didn't find the math on that like I

544
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:46.839
did with the alcohol content. I'm not sure if it's

545
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:50.480
easy to know how fast that metabolized in your system.

546
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:54.200
In December twenty fifteen, four months after Jason's death, a

547
00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:58.000
special grand jury indicted both Tom and Molly Martin's on

548
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:01.839
charges of second degree murder. They were released on bond,

549
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:05.839
required to surrender their passports, and barred from contacting Jason's

550
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:09.279
children or any member of the Corbett family. But in

551
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:13.200
January twenty sixteen, Jack secretly tried to reach out to Molly.

552
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:17.000
Borrowing a friend's phone, he called her. When she didn't answer,

553
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:20.599
he left a voicemail, Hi mom, missus Jack, this cannot

554
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:23.359
go public. I miss you and I love you. Keep

555
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:26.039
fighting really hard. I want to know how you are.

556
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:30.000
I'd love you so much. Call me pretty please, So

557
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.119
five months on, Jack is still really having a hard time?

558
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:34.240
Yeah, definitely.

559
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:37.400
Jack's plea was private, not only for her, but Molly

560
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:40.160
released it to the press, a move she framed as

561
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:43.680
proof the children were still on her side. For Jacket

562
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:46.559
felt like a deep betrayal. If Mollie would use him

563
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:49.440
like this, maybe she hadn't been the person he thought

564
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:53.400
she was. He began reading news coverage about his father's death,

565
00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:57.799
revisiting memories and questioning the stories he'd been told. Slowly

566
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.160
his perspective shifted. He came aim to believe Molly had

567
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:04.119
lied to him and that she and Tom had killed

568
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:09.200
his father intentionally. Nine months after Jason's death, Jack confided

569
00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:11.799
in Tracy and Dave that he wanted to set the

570
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.799
record straight. He admitted that in those early days he

571
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:17.880
had lied at Molly's instruction. She had told him that

572
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.240
if he didn't say the right things, he'd be taken

573
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:23.359
away from her, never see her again, and worris that

574
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.240
he and Sarah would be separated. Tracy arranged a video

575
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:31.000
call with a North Carolina Assistant district attorney. On the call,

576
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:35.319
Jack recanted his earlier statement. He told prosecutors he had

577
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:38.279
never seen his father abuse Molly and that Molly had

578
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.200
coached him on what to say. A few months later,

579
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:45.319
Sarah also came forward. She explained everything I'd said had

580
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:48.079
been motivated by my wanting to keep Molly in share

581
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:50.720
and happy and to ensure that Jack and I stayed

582
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.400
in America. I had to go home with those people

583
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:56.039
after the interview, and I was convinced I'd live with

584
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:58.119
them for the rest of my life. I had been

585
00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:01.720
in survival mode when I'd given that interview. She's so

586
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:04.160
young to be making such a grown up statement.

587
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:08.480
Yeah, she is a really intelligent young lady. I would say.

588
00:31:09.079 --> 00:31:11.680
Sarah had already lost her mother and father, she didn't

589
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.000
want to lose Molly and Jack too. But with time

590
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:16.640
she admitted the truth. She had never once seen her

591
00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:18.440
father lay a hand on Mollie.

592
00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:20.519
So you can kind of see where this is setting up,

593
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.680
where this is going to go for the rest of

594
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:26.480
the story. So Jack and Sarah made statements four days

595
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:30.480
after Jason's death with a trained social worker that supported

596
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:34.599
Molly's story, and then they went and stayed with Tracy

597
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:37.799
and Dave, and a few months later they changed their story.

598
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:40.680
And so it's a really challenging thing with kids right

599
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:44.759
they're nine and eleven years old to know side which

600
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:47.319
time were they telling the truth and which time they weren't.

601
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:52.559
Absolutely both children began sharing painful stories. Mollie, they said,

602
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:55.960
demanded that Jack always call her mom and punished him

603
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:59.279
if he didn't. Sarah knew instinctively never to mention her

604
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:03.119
birth mother around Molly. Once, when Sarah forgot to hide

605
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:07.279
a treasured photo of Mags, Molly exploded, this woman is dead.

606
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.240
She is dead. To hear me, I am your mother.

607
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:14.440
Molly then hurled the framed photo down the stairs, shattering

608
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:18.039
the glass and breaking the frame. Later, Jason gently helped

609
00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:21.000
Sarah glue the frame back together. She kept it hidden

610
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:24.279
for years and now proudly displays it by her bed.

611
00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:28.039
Jack described another incident before Jason left on a business trip,

612
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.559
He told his father that he loved him, and Molly

613
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.119
flew into a rage. She stormed into Jack's room, scattering

614
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:38.319
his clothes, overturning his bed, dumping his dresser. Jack said

615
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:41.599
that Molly often beat him. Once, Sarah walked into the

616
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:44.359
kitchen to find her brother flailing on the floor as

617
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:48.880
Molly stood above him, punching him mercilessly. They never told Jason.

618
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:52.400
Jack would excuse his cuts and bruises with stories of

619
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.640
sports accidents. Sarah spoke about the swim team Molly coached.

620
00:32:56.839 --> 00:32:59.680
What began is something she loved turned into a nightmare.

621
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.119
If Sarah didn't swim well, Molly wouldn't let her eat dinner.

622
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:06.680
Once after a poor race, Molly sneered, if you act

623
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:08.960
like a baby, you're going to swim with the babies,

624
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:12.920
and forced her to attend infants swim classes as punishment.

625
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:15.759
When Sarah begged to quit swimming and join the baseball

626
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:18.920
team that her dad coached, Molly lashed out, so you'd

627
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:21.720
prefer to be with your dad instead of me? How

628
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:24.039
could you hurt me like this after everything I've done

629
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.559
for you? Do you not love me? Terrified of losing her,

630
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.839
Sarah backtracked, assuring Molly that she loved her more than anyone.

631
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:35.240
In times, Sarah realized what Molly had done, isolating her

632
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:39.039
from her father, creating a US versus Dad mentality that

633
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:42.200
robbed her of a relationship with him. Both children also

634
00:33:42.319 --> 00:33:45.839
revealed one of Molly's most chilling manipulations. From as young

635
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:49.319
as five, Sarah recalled Molly repeatedly told her that Jason

636
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:52.880
had killed her mother, suffocating Mags with a pillow. It

637
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:55.640
was a lie Molly used to poison the children's memories

638
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:56.240
of their father.

639
00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:59.599
So these stories that we went through are obviously all

640
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:03.680
coming from Jack and Sarah and Tracy of course, and

641
00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:07.119
Molly's sides. Of Molly and her dad, Tom haven't written

642
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:09.360
any books or anything like that. I'm sure they would

643
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:13.920
argue that the kids' memories were poisoned by Tracy and

644
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:16.000
Dave or something like that. So that's partly why I

645
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:18.519
think it's really important to watch the documentary and kind

646
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.760
of hear directly from the kids in the documentary because

647
00:34:22.280 --> 00:34:25.599
I believe them. I think they seem really sincere, and

648
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:29.360
their memories seem very vivid and accurate of this stuff.

649
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.119
But obviously there's another side to the story as well,

650
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:35.559
to Tracy and Dave. It quickly became clear that Tom

651
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:39.079
and Molly's defense strategy was not only self defense, it

652
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.159
was character assassination. Their plan was to smear Jason's name.

653
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:47.519
They leaned on stereotypes of Irish men as hard drinking brawlers.

654
00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:50.840
Molly told police that Jason had ties to the Irish

655
00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:54.519
Republican Army, that he had been violent since his teenage years,

656
00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:58.000
even claiming bizarrely that he had been a mixed martial

657
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:02.079
arts fighter. Tracy spent the next year gathering counter evidence

658
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:07.719
statements from Jason's teachers, principles, senior police officers, and work colleagues.

659
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:12.159
Each one attested to Jason's good character, dismantling the rumors

660
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:15.840
that Molly and her family were pushing. Meanwhile, Molly recruited

661
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:19.280
friends to take her side publicly. One posted on social

662
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:22.599
media quote, you need to understand that everything that happened

663
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.960
that night was a result of Jason being a monster

664
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:28.119
to his wife and children. He was physically violent and

665
00:35:28.239 --> 00:35:31.440
verbally and mentally abusive. None of this would be happening

666
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:33.880
now if he had been a good person. I support

667
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:37.320
Molly until the day I die. Another friend told forty

668
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:41.719
eight Hours anonymously that Molly had described Jason as controlling

669
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:46.039
and verbally abusive, and that his behavior escalated to quote

670
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:49.280
forced sex and stuff like that, But when pressed, the

671
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.320
friend admitted that Molly had never mentioned these claims before

672
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:56.199
Jason's death. Perhaps the ugliest tactic was an attempt to

673
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:00.480
cast suspicion on Jason over Mags's death. Tom Martin told

674
00:36:00.519 --> 00:36:04.119
people that he had once spoken with Maggs's father, Michael Fitzpatrick,

675
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.159
who allegedly said I think he killed my daughter. Tom

676
00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:12.199
added patronizingly that Michael was not a well educated man

677
00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:14.840
and difficult to understand because of his accent.

678
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:18.639
So that part of the documentary made me so angry.

679
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:22.000
It was so condescending and rude, the way he spoke

680
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:23.559
of Jason's.

681
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:25.719
Yeah that I watched the documentary before I did any

682
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.480
other research, and that was the moment when my opinion

683
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:32.679
of Tom just took a nose dive. Why say that?

684
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:33.679
What is the point of saying?

685
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.679
And Jason's father, his sins passed away from cancer, so

686
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:39.119
he's not here to defend himself, but his wife and

687
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:39.920
daughter did.

688
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:44.679
Yeah. The Fitzpatrick family was outraged. Michael insisted that he

689
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:46.920
had only ever met Tom once and that the two

690
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:50.239
had never discussed Jason or Maggs at all. He put

691
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:53.599
his denial in writing with a solicitor quote, I wish

692
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:56.639
to state in no uncertain terms that the relationship between

693
00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:00.480
Jason Corbett and Margaret Corbett and the relationship between Jason

694
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:04.679
Corbett and Molly Martin's was never discussed in any manner whatsoever.

695
00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:08.000
I can also state categorically that we never discussed my

696
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:11.320
daughter Margaret or the circumstances of her death, nor did

697
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:14.800
I inform Thomas Martin's that Jason had killed my daughter Margaret.

698
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:17.840
Michael's anger was so strong that he made sure to

699
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:21.679
leave a written record before illness overtook him. He died

700
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:26.000
soon after, never able to testify in person. Maggs's sister

701
00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:30.119
Catherine also spoke out, calling Molly a compulsive liar. She

702
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:33.559
revealed that only days after Jason's death, Molly had sent

703
00:37:33.639 --> 00:37:37.440
adoption papers to the Fitzpatricks, asking them to sign so

704
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.400
that she could push through custody of Jack and Sarah.

705
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:44.880
They refused. Still, the Martin's family doubled down. They hired

706
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:48.440
a medical expert who combed through Maggs's autopsy report and

707
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:51.079
suggested that she may not have died from an asthma

708
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:55.559
attack at all, but from manual strangulation injuries. The expert

709
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:58.119
claimed that could have led to her death. Hours later,

710
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:03.119
for Tracy, your campaign was intolerable. She refused to let

711
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:06.000
her brother's name be dragged through the mud. Determined to

712
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.960
fight back, she reached out to Mally's former fiancee Keith McGinn,

713
00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:13.159
the man who had written about their relationship in his memoir.

714
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:16.800
Keith empathized with the Corbett family and agreed to share

715
00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:20.000
with investigators what he knew about Mally's history of mental

716
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.679
health struggles and instability. In July twenty seventeen, Molly and

717
00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:28.119
Tom Martins went on trial together, charged with second degree

718
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:32.159
murder with a fallback option of voluntary manslaughter. At the

719
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:35.000
very same time, Tracy and Dave filed a wrongful death

720
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:38.760
lawsuit against them. The timing was coincidental. The statute of

721
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:42.639
limitations was about to expire, but the Corbetts were determined

722
00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:46.079
that the Martin's family never profit from Jason's death. The

723
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:49.920
prosecution's case hinged on one thing. The brutality of the attack,

724
00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:53.400
Jason's injuries, and the blood soaked crime scene told a

725
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:57.719
story of sustained, one sided violence. Molly and Tom, meanwhile,

726
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:01.480
walked away without a scratch. Had called it a Donnybrook,

727
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:05.000
a desperate brawl, but the evidence painted a different picture.

728
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:08.800
A sleeping man ambushed, roused into a fight for his life,

729
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.639
staggering around the bedroom and hallway before being beaten to death.

730
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:17.239
Prosecutors argued that Molly's motive was clear. Jason was preparing

731
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:19.559
to leave her and returned to Ireland with the children.

732
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.519
Molly couldn't bear the thought of losing them, so she

733
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:25.400
and her father killed him. They may also have been

734
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:29.159
a financial incentive. Jason carried a six hundred thousand dollars

735
00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:33.559
life insurance policy. Originally, the children were listed as beneficiaries

736
00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:37.480
alongside Molli, but in twenty fourteen the policy was changed

737
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.639
so that Molly was the sole beneficiary. No one could

738
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:42.920
say exactly who made the change, only that it was

739
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:46.679
done online. Combined with a mortgage free home worth hundreds

740
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:49.719
of thousands of dollars, Jason's death left Molly set to

741
00:39:49.719 --> 00:39:53.360
gain well over a million dollars. A key pre trial

742
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:56.840
question was whether the jury would hear from Jack and Sarah.

743
00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:02.039
Their original statements supported Molly's story, their later recantations accused

744
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:06.119
her of coaching them to lie. The judge ultimately excluded

745
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:09.719
both versions, ruling that they contradicted each other too directly

746
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:14.119
to be reliable. Still, the prosecution presented a mountain of evidence.

747
00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:18.480
Autopsy results Jason suffered at least twelve blows to the head.

748
00:40:18.800 --> 00:40:21.920
The medical examiner testified that at least one was delivered

749
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:26.280
after he was already dead. Toxicology, his blood alcohol content

750
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:29.599
was only point zero two percent, far lower than Molly's

751
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:33.199
claims of six straight hours of drinking. His blood also

752
00:40:33.280 --> 00:40:36.440
contained trazodone, a drug that Molly had been prescribed three

753
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:39.920
days earlier, but that Jason had never needed. The blood

754
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:43.760
spatter found throughout the room, including stains only inches off

755
00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:47.480
the floor, showing that Jason was struck while down. Blood

756
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:50.920
also marked the enseam of Tom's boxer shorts, proof that

757
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.960
he had delivered blows while standing directly over Jason. Timing.

758
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:58.360
Much of the blood was dried or congealed, and Jason's

759
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:01.880
body was already cool when pairs medics arrived, suggesting that

760
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:04.639
Tom had not called nine one one as quickly as

761
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:08.039
he had claimed the CPR doubts. The nine one one

762
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:12.159
dispatcher testified that Tom did not sound winded despite allegedly

763
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:16.519
performing hundreds of chest compressions. Neither Tom nor Molly had

764
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:20.119
blood on their hands, although Jason's chest was bloody, raising

765
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.239
doubts that they ever tried CPR at all. And then

766
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:26.239
a former colleague testified that Tom made no secret of

767
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.639
his dislike for Jason, and just four weeks before the killing,

768
00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:32.599
said that son in law, I hate him. And then

769
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:35.400
there was the brick. Every surface of the paving stone

770
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:40.199
was coated in blood, consistent with multiple impacts. Piece by piece,

771
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:44.199
the prosecution dismantled Tom and Molly's story of a chaotic struggle.

772
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.840
What they described as self defense looked instead like a

773
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.679
deliberate and sustained killing.

774
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.760
I have a question that you might not know the

775
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.000
answer to. But you said that Jason's body was cool,

776
00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:59.440
and I know that the body cools pretty rapidly after

777
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.559
your dead. But you don't have any metrics there.

778
00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:05.000
No, I don't believe they took any measurements, and from

779
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:07.880
what I've read, there's not there's not a lot of

780
00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:11.360
scientific consensus around exactly how fast the body.

781
00:42:11.639 --> 00:42:13.000
I really thought it was like a degree an hour

782
00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:13.840
or something like that.

783
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:16.719
Maybe that may be like a ballpark, but I don't

784
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:19.519
I could be wrong, but I've read that it's hard

785
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:22.639
to really make a determination based on the body temperature.

786
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:24.719
We'll be back after a break.

787
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:34.920
The defensive star witness was Tom Martins, himself with three

788
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:39.039
decades and the FBI. His attorneys believed his credibility would

789
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:42.239
carry weight with a jury. Surely, they argued, this was

790
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:44.760
not the kind of man who would kill with malice.

791
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:47.880
On the stand, Tom was calm and measured as he

792
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:51.920
walked the jury through his version of events. I certainly.

793
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:54.519
Well he would kill me.

794
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:58.920
I thought both of our lives were in danger. I

795
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:02.239
did the best I could. I did not like some of.

796
00:43:02.280 --> 00:43:06.559
Jason's behave, particularly with regard to my daughter. That does

797
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.719
not mean that I demonized the man. Once I got

798
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:13.360
control of the bat, I hit him until I considered

799
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:14.280
the threat to be over.

800
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.400
And when I considered the threat to be over, I

801
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.599
quit hitting it. But how did he come across credible

802
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:23.000
or arrogant? That was the question lingering in the courtroom.

803
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:25.320
Tom seemed to be able to recall the fight in

804
00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:30.000
painstaking detail, each blow, each shift, and momentum. Yet somehow

805
00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:33.320
he couldn't recall Molly ever striking Jason with the paving brick,

806
00:43:33.559 --> 00:43:36.840
even though the evidence clearly showed that she had. Molly

807
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:40.159
did not testify on her own behalf. So Tom, with

808
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:44.440
his thirty years in the FBI, some in the criminal division, Yeah,

809
00:43:44.559 --> 00:43:46.920
certainly knew how to be a slick witness, right.

810
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:49.559
Yeah, he absolutely came across on the witness stand as

811
00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:53.039
very calm and collected. But I also wonder if that

812
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:56.880
was heard by the jury as sort of arrogance as well,

813
00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:59.360
But that could just be me reading into it.

814
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:04.920
Closing arguments, the prosecution staged a powerful demonstration. The prosecutor

815
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:08.159
have to the very weapons used in Jason's killing, the

816
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:10.639
metal baseball bat and the paving brick.

817
00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:15.280
How much for does it take to split the flesh

818
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:18.519
out of the way to the skull? You know what

819
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:20.920
malice fields comes through.

820
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:27.679
The brick that Molly had it Fields like, Hey, that's

821
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:29.119
what malice feels like.

822
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:33.360
Always wonder how effective those type of theatrics are in

823
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:34.000
a courtroom.

824
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:35.679
They attorneys loved them.

825
00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:37.000
Don't think absolutely.

826
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.239
I think that's pretty effective. Yeah, this is what they

827
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:44.480
did to Jason, he said, displaying the gruesome post mortem photos.

828
00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:47.679
Then holding up the photos of Tom and Molly, he added,

829
00:44:48.039 --> 00:44:52.000
and this is what Jason did to them. Nothing. The

830
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:55.559
jury needed just three hours of deliberation. When they returned,

831
00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:59.440
the verdict was unanimous guilty of second degree murder for

832
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:03.440
Tom and Molly Martin's. After a brief recess, the court

833
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.760
moved directly into sentencing, the district attorney read a letter

834
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:10.119
from Jack aloud. It closed with words that brought many

835
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:12.159
of the jurors to tears. Are you going to make

836
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.280
me read this? Yes? My dad will not be forgotten.

837
00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:18.559
He will be remembered by his good life. How he

838
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:21.559
made everyone feel good about themselves, How he was there

839
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.400
for you if you needed him, how we always focused

840
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:27.280
on the positive. How he was the best dad ever

841
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:31.079
and the best friend, brother and son ever. Mollie Martin's

842
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:34.039
will not be forgotten as well. She will always be

843
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:37.039
remembered as the woman who killed her husband for no reason.

844
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:40.599
She will be remembered as a murderer. When the judge

845
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:43.480
handed down his sentence twenty to twenty five years for

846
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:46.400
both Molly and Tom, it marked the first measure of

847
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:50.199
justice for Jason Corbett. As deputies led her from the courtroom,

848
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.119
Molly turned to her mother and said, I'm so sorry.

849
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:54.840
I should have just let him kill me.

850
00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:58.280
I see your eyes rolling a little bit at Molly's comment.

851
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:01.119
They sure did. You had to to delete my first

852
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.559
comment because it was inappropriate for air.

853
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:04.800
Yeah.

854
00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:08.400
Outside the courthouse after the verdict, the jury foremen spoke

855
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.320
briefly to reporters, He explained the speed of their decision, quote,

856
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:16.000
we didn't discuss a verdict, but in having private conversations,

857
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:18.800
we could read that everybody was going in the same direction.

858
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:22.719
The Martin's lawyers immediately seized on that comment. Had the

859
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:26.360
jury been discussing the case before formal deliberations. If so,

860
00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:29.559
that would be a violation of the judge's daily instructions

861
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:33.320
and grounds for appeal for Jason's family. Though the moment

862
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:38.039
was one of release. After two long, grueling years, Tracy, Dave, Jack,

863
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:41.480
and Sarah could finally breathe. Sarah said it was the

864
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:44.559
first time that she had truly felt free in years,

865
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:47.840
but the feeling didn't last. As Jack summed it up,

866
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:51.320
everything was going well, but then everything went wrong again.

867
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:56.039
The Martin's attorneys filed for appeal, first claiming jury misconduct.

868
00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:59.639
That motion was denied, but they pressed on, arguing that

869
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:02.559
new Mara's errors had been made in the trial. In

870
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:06.440
January twenty nineteen, the North Carolina Court of Appeals made

871
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:10.119
the rare decision to hear oral arguments each side had

872
00:47:10.199 --> 00:47:13.679
just thirty minutes. The defense's key point it had been

873
00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:17.480
unfair to exclude the children's original statements given at the

874
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:21.800
Dragonfly House just days after Jason's death. Those statements back

875
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.639
to Tom and Molly's story. How could the trial have

876
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:29.159
been fair without them? The appellate court agreed. The interviews,

877
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:32.639
they ruled were conducted by trained professionals in a nationally

878
00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:38.039
accredited child advocacy center. Precedents supported their admission. The state

879
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:42.360
appealed again, but the North Carolina Supreme Court ultimately upheld

880
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:47.119
their decision. The guilty verdicts were overturned. Tom and Molly

881
00:47:47.239 --> 00:47:50.079
Martin's were free awaiting a new trial.

882
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:53.119
I can't say that I disagree with the appeals court

883
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:55.639
decision because it does seem like the jury should get

884
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:58.920
They should be allowed to decide which was accurate their

885
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:02.239
the children's original statements or the statements they made later,

886
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:05.639
or the children should be allowed to testify themselves and

887
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:08.039
explain their own thoughts.

888
00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:10.280
Yeah. I agree. At the end of the day, everyone

889
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:14.000
deserves the most fair trial that they can get. As

890
00:48:14.039 --> 00:48:17.880
prosecutors prepared for a second trial, Molly and Tom's defense

891
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:21.719
had reason to feel confident first the children's statements would

892
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:25.920
be admissible, that mentors would hear both versions the Dragonfly

893
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:29.440
House interviews given just days after Jason's death, and Jack's

894
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:33.239
later recantation months down the road. The defense believed the

895
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:37.280
credibility of the first interviews would outweigh the second, especially

896
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:41.119
since those early sessions were conducted by trained child advocates

897
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:45.280
in a professional setting, while Jack's recantation was done over Skype,

898
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:48.880
with the assistant DA asking the questions and Tracy sitting

899
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:52.480
next to Jack. Second, the defense was prepared to revisit

900
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:55.760
Maggs's death. They had experts ready to testify that our

901
00:48:55.800 --> 00:48:59.079
autopsy did not point to asthma as the cause, but

902
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:03.679
rather to poss strangulation. The state's own experts conceded that

903
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:07.679
Maggs likely had not died directly from asthma, but argued

904
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:11.599
there were numerous medical explanations consistent with her history as

905
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:15.880
an asthmatic. To conclude strangulation, they said, would be reckless

906
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:19.800
and unsupported by evidence. Still, the mere suggestion that Jason

907
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:22.559
may have killed his first wife had the potential to

908
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:26.360
sway a jury. Third, several of Molly's close friends were

909
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:30.119
now willing to testify that they had witnessed Jason's fits

910
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:34.280
of anger. The prosecution, however, had a powerful new advantage

911
00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:38.599
this time, Jack and Sarah wanted to testify. Both children

912
00:49:38.639 --> 00:49:41.800
had been too young and beyond the court's jurisdiction during

913
00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:45.159
the first trial, but now, as teenagers, they were determined

914
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:47.800
to take the stand. They wanted to speak for their

915
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:51.920
father directly. They were confident a jury would believe them,

916
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:54.679
but prosecutors were wary. The stakes were high and the

917
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:58.079
risk of acquittal loomed large. Rather than gamble everything at

918
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:02.679
a retrial, State pursued plea negotiations. In the end, a

919
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:07.000
deal was struck. Mall would plead no contest to voluntary manslaughter,

920
00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.320
while Tom would plead guilty to the same charge. A

921
00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:13.960
no contest plea allows a defendant to accept punishment without

922
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:17.760
formally admitting guilt. It carries the same criminal penalties as

923
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.599
a guilt deeply, but cannot be used against them in

924
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:24.239
a related civil case. For Jack and Sarah, the news

925
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:27.800
was crushing. Sarah and Ireland wept through the night. She

926
00:50:27.880 --> 00:50:30.559
had been waiting years to speak in court for her father.

927
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:34.199
Now the chance was gone to her. A plea deal

928
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:36.719
didn't feel like justice at all. It felt like her

929
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:38.800
voice was being silenced once again.

930
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:42.840
Sentencing took place in November twenty twenty three. By then

931
00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:47.079
Jack was nineteen and Sarah seventeen. Together with Tracy and Dave,

932
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:50.360
they flew from Ireland to North Carolina, the family's twenty

933
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:52.719
fifth trip to the US in the eight years they

934
00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:56.320
had spent battling the Martins through the courts. The Netflix

935
00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:59.159
documentary captures a poignant moment as they arrived at the

936
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:02.440
courthouse in their rental van. Tracy turned to her family.

937
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:06.960
We are the strongest, most united together, Sarah added, and

938
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:09.840
we're going to do this together. Dave closed with a

939
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:13.440
pep talk. All will be okay. Time for crying is over.

940
00:51:13.719 --> 00:51:16.519
Now it's time to get angry in their head up,

941
00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:20.199
shoulders back. Fuck these people. They're nothing to us. This

942
00:51:20.360 --> 00:51:23.559
wasn't a routine sentencing hearing. Instead of lasting an hour

943
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:27.079
or two, it stretched across ten days. This really shocked

944
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:29.599
me when I read that, because sentencing hearings are usually

945
00:51:30.079 --> 00:51:32.079
kind of a formality, like you just have a few

946
00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:35.039
victim statements and that's it. But this was almost like

947
00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:39.400
another trial. The defense filled that time with testimony that

948
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:44.599
smeared Jason Corbett's character. Witnesses suggested that Jason's first wife, Mags,

949
00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:48.239
may have been murdered friends repeated Molly's claims of abuse.

950
00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:51.800
The defense played video of the Dragonfly House interviews from

951
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:55.119
the days after Jason's death, in which Jack and Sarah

952
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:59.360
supported Molly's story, as well as the secret Pancake Tuesday

953
00:51:59.360 --> 00:52:02.119
recording my Molly had made of an argument. We played

954
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:06.079
that in part one. The prosecution, constrained by the plea agreement,

955
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:09.360
was limited in what they could present. Their most powerful

956
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:12.440
moment came from a psychologist who had interviewed Molly in

957
00:52:12.519 --> 00:52:16.119
twenty twenty two. He concluded that Molly's plan from the

958
00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:19.320
beginning of her time as Jason's nanny was to claim

959
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:22.280
Jack and Sarah as her own, with Jason as an

960
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:25.440
obstacle in her way. As the judge from the custody

961
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:28.159
hearing had once put it, Molly seemed to feel a

962
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:32.559
quote deranged entitlement to the kids. For the Corbett family,

963
00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:35.880
the hearing felt like reliving the smear campaign all over again.

964
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:39.280
They sat quietly through it, biting their tongues until it

965
00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:41.880
was finally their turn to speak. In the victim impact

966
00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:45.000
portion of the hearing, Jack's voice carried the weight of

967
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:48.079
years of silence. The first thing I want to state

968
00:52:48.119 --> 00:52:51.039
clearly is I was a liar From the age of

969
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.280
four to ten. I was taught how to lie and

970
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:56.960
manipulate people by Molly Martin's. During this time, I was

971
00:52:57.000 --> 00:52:59.840
abused by Molly Martin's in every way you can imagine,

972
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:02.760
and then some your honor. Don't be fooled by this

973
00:53:02.880 --> 00:53:05.920
mask of civility of Molly Martin's. There is a monster

974
00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:09.960
lurking underneath the exterior. She systematically broke me down and

975
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:12.920
drip fed me on truths. I want to be clear,

976
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.159
I have never witnessed my dad hit Molly Martin's ever. Luckily,

977
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:20.280
my dad picked two wonderful parents to guide me through life.

978
00:53:20.679 --> 00:53:23.159
It hasn't been easy, but having them made it a

979
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:27.559
lot easier. Sarah followed, who is the victim here? The

980
00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:30.119
Martins made my pain so much worse by trying to

981
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:32.400
have the world think my dad was a bad person.

982
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:35.199
What Molly and Tom Martin's took from me I can

983
00:53:35.239 --> 00:53:38.440
never get back. I've seen my father's bloody handprint on

984
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:41.559
the door of his bedroom. There was nothing voluntary about

985
00:53:41.559 --> 00:53:44.039
his death. He did not choose to leave us. He

986
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:47.079
was taken from us. He was the victim. It was

987
00:53:47.119 --> 00:53:49.159
only when I went to live with Tracy and David

988
00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:51.880
in Ireland, that I knew the true meaning of family.

989
00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:55.519
The judge listened, but said the victim impact statements had

990
00:53:55.559 --> 00:53:58.639
not influenced his decision, which kind of made me wonder,

991
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:00.880
what is the purpose of victims impact statements.

992
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:03.440
I think the purpose of a victim impact statement is

993
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:06.000
for the victims to speak their truth, whether or not

994
00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:08.280
it changes the judge's decision.

995
00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:10.880
Yeah, no, I agree, but it just seems like the

996
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:13.119
judge should at least take it into account and not

997
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:16.679
say this didn't influence my decision at all. The judge

998
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:18.800
said it was difficult to know the full truth in

999
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:22.400
this case. Still, he raised questions of his own. Why

1000
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.480
hadn't Tom, a veteran FBI agent, called nine to one

1001
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:28.519
one before running upstairs with a bat. Someone with his

1002
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:30.880
training would know that the first thing you do is

1003
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:34.039
call for backup. Why hadn't Sharon called for help when

1004
00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:36.800
she heard screams instead of rolling over and going back

1005
00:54:36.840 --> 00:54:40.000
to sleep. In the end, he acknowledged the imperfections of

1006
00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:43.280
the justice system and sentenced Tom and Molly each to

1007
00:54:43.400 --> 00:54:46.840
between fifty one and seventy four months in prison, or

1008
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:50.239
around four to six years with credit for time already

1009
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:53.519
served that most likely meant an additional year behind bars

1010
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:57.239
at most. For Tracy, Dave, Jack, and Sarah, the sentence

1011
00:54:57.320 --> 00:55:00.920
was crushing. It didn't feel like justice. Still, they held

1012
00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:04.360
on to one small consolation. At least Molly and Tom

1013
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:07.760
would be led back to prison in handcuffs. Let's talk

1014
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:11.639
about what's happened since sentencing. The wrongful death lawsuit that

1015
00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:14.760
Tracy and Dave filed back in July twenty seventeen was

1016
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:18.760
eventually settled. A trust fund was created for Jack and Sarah.

1017
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.599
The Martins contributed one hundred and eighty thousand dollars, an

1018
00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:26.320
insurance company and other twenty thousand dollars and Jason's six

1019
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:29.679
hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy went into the fund

1020
00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:33.360
as well. Under North Carolina law, Mally wasn't eligible to

1021
00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:37.800
receive the policy given her conviction in Jason's death. Jason's

1022
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:40.719
North Carolina house was sold in twenty eighteen for three

1023
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:44.199
hundred and forty six thousand dollars, about fifty thousand dollars

1024
00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:46.880
less than what he had paid for. Even so, half

1025
00:55:46.960 --> 00:55:49.079
of the proceeds from the sale the house went to

1026
00:55:49.159 --> 00:55:52.480
Molli Despite her being behind bars for his murder at

1027
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:55.000
this time. That was because of North Carolina law.

1028
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:57.679
That looked like a beautiful house, too, oh.

1029
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:00.599
Very nice house. Most of the money in Jack and

1030
00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:03.880
Sarah's trust went towards years of legal fees and travel

1031
00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:06.480
at their own request, on top of the hundreds of

1032
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:10.079
thousands Tracy and Dave had already spent fighting for custody

1033
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:13.519
and justice. In June twenty twenty four, both Tom and

1034
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:17.119
Molly were released from prison, having served just seven months

1035
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:20.400
since their plea deal and just over four years in total.

1036
00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:24.639
Their probation ended a year later. Today, a court order

1037
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:28.360
prevents Molly from ever contacting Jack or Sarah again. In

1038
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.760
the Netflix documentary, Molly claims she never wanted a plea deal.

1039
00:56:31.960 --> 00:56:34.920
She had been ready to fight another trial, but she

1040
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:37.480
admitted she took the deal because she couldn't face the

1041
00:56:37.519 --> 00:56:40.199
possibility of her father spending the rest of his life

1042
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:43.079
in prison. For Jack and Sarah, the plea bargain and

1043
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.880
light sentence felt like a punch to the gut. They

1044
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:47.719
said it seemed like their father had been the one

1045
00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:50.960
on trial. Justice in their eyes, had not been served.

1046
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:54.360
Both carried guilt, feeling as though they had somehow let

1047
00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:57.719
their dad down. That's one reason they chose to participate

1048
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:00.840
in the Netflix documentary, to share their truth and to

1049
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:05.119
honor Jason's memory. Sarah also channeled her grief into writing.

1050
00:57:05.480 --> 00:57:09.360
At thirteen, she published a children's book called Noodle Loses Dad,

1051
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:12.280
the story of two bear cubs who lose their father

1052
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:15.519
but are taken in by a loving new family. At eighteen,

1053
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.760
she published A Time for Truth, reflecting on her father,

1054
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:22.679
her painful childhood with Molly, and her long road toward healing.

1055
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:25.639
She credits Tracy and Day for giving her and Jack

1056
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:28.880
the kind of stable, supportive home their dad had wanted

1057
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:32.639
for them. Jack, quieter and more private, chooses not to

1058
00:57:32.719 --> 00:57:35.679
dwell on Molly. He says he doesn't hate her because

1059
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:38.639
hate would give her power over him. Instead, both he

1060
00:57:38.679 --> 00:57:41.079
and Sarah focus on the pride they feel in being

1061
00:57:41.159 --> 00:57:46.079
Jason Corbett's children. In Limerick, Jason's memory lives on. Former

1062
00:57:46.119 --> 00:57:49.440
colleagues hosts an annual football tournament and a golf outing

1063
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:52.719
in his honor at the Lexington, North Carolina plant where

1064
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.480
he once worked. His team dedicated a tree and a

1065
00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:59.000
plaque to him, turning his office into the Jason Corbett

1066
00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:02.639
conference room. When the plant later closed due to a merger,

1067
00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:05.760
that plaque was shipped back to Ireland to the plant

1068
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:09.440
where Jason first began his career. Rest in peace, Jason,

1069
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.760
and rest in peace, Mags. Before we have a little

1070
00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:15.239
bit of discussion, I did want to mention my sources. Again.

1071
00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:18.360
Of course, I watched the Netflix documentary we've mentioned a

1072
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:21.800
few times, a Deadly American Marriage. Again, I highly recommend

1073
00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:25.679
watching it because they did interview nearly everyone involved, Molly,

1074
00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:30.000
Tom Jack, Sarah Tracy. CBS's forty eight Hours also did

1075
00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:33.320
a really good job with their episode called In Jason's Name,

1076
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:36.119
which aired in twenty nineteen. And then I mentioned that

1077
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:38.639
I read three books. So when I found out that

1078
00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:42.039
Molly's ex fiance, Keith McGinn had written a book about

1079
00:58:42.039 --> 00:58:45.519
his relationship with Molly, I thought that that will provide

1080
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:49.119
a really fascinating glimpse into Molly's psyche, and it really did.

1081
00:58:49.559 --> 00:58:52.719
The memoir is called Turning This Thing Around, and it's

1082
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:56.440
really about Keith's own mental health struggles, but it provides

1083
00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:01.039
a really fascinating window into Molly's personality, the patterns from

1084
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:04.360
before she met Jason. Like I mentioned before, the book

1085
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:08.039
was published three years before Jason's death, so it wasn't

1086
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:12.440
like Keith McGinn was trying to cash in on Mally's notoriety,

1087
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:15.440
so that's why I found it really interesting. I also

1088
00:59:15.519 --> 00:59:19.679
read Tracy Corbett's book My Brother Jason. Naturally, it's told

1089
00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:23.320
from her perspective, but it's really valuable in understanding kind

1090
00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:26.159
of what Jason's family went through, not only through his

1091
00:59:26.280 --> 00:59:29.679
death but the years of legal battles afterwards, and it

1092
00:59:29.719 --> 00:59:31.440
helped fill in a lot of the details that the

1093
00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:35.000
documentary didn't cover. And then finally I read A Time

1094
00:59:35.039 --> 00:59:38.000
for Truth, My Father Jason and My Search for Justice

1095
00:59:38.039 --> 00:59:41.760
and Healing by Sarah Corbett Lynch, which was published just

1096
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:45.360
recently in May twenty twenty five, when Sarah was just eighteen.

1097
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:49.199
It's a really remarkable book, not just because of her age,

1098
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:53.800
but because Sarah actually grew up undiagnosed with dyslexia when

1099
00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:56.400
she lived with Molly. Most of her homework was done

1100
00:59:56.440 --> 00:59:59.800
for her by Mally, because Sarah says that Mally cared

1101
00:59:59.840 --> 01:00:04.079
more about appearances than Sarah's actual education, and so Sarah

1102
01:00:04.119 --> 01:00:06.559
was really far behind in reading and writing when she

1103
01:00:06.599 --> 01:00:09.960
first moved to Ireland. Since then she's turned writing into

1104
01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:13.119
both the strength and an outlet, and the book captures

1105
01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:16.519
her memories of her dad, her perspective on Molly, and

1106
01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:19.760
her experience sitting through the ten day sentencing hearing is

1107
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:23.480
really powerful, really heartfelt, and really well written. So I

1108
01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:25.280
would definitely recommend that as well.

1109
01:00:25.639 --> 01:00:26.519
Very interesting.

1110
01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:29.199
I have a couple of questions for you. What do

1111
01:00:29.239 --> 01:00:30.719
you think about the plea deal? Do you think the

1112
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:34.199
prosecutors were right to pursue a plea deal or do

1113
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:36.199
you think they should have taken it to trial again?

1114
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:38.920
You know, it's hard. I don't really know all of

1115
01:00:38.960 --> 01:00:40.880
the evidence. I mean, you did a great job outlining

1116
01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:44.360
the evidence. I'm not really sure. To me, it seems

1117
01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:46.960
like there might have been enough evidence to go for

1118
01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:51.239
murder one, really because like the prescription that she had

1119
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:54.760
secured and you know, having the brick by her bedside,

1120
01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:56.920
and I don't know, maybe there wasn't enough evidence to

1121
01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:57.280
point to.

1122
01:00:57.320 --> 01:00:59.159
That for Malli. I think there could have been. Not

1123
01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.360
for Tom, for sure. I think Tom wouldn't have been

1124
01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:05.920
premeditated for him, but potentially I think Molly could have

1125
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:07.639
gone down for murder one. But I think would have

1126
01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:09.159
been hard. It would have been hard to prove.

1127
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:12.519
Yeah, the plea deal is definitely hard to swallow, especially

1128
01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:15.800
because you know, on the tail end there wasn't much

1129
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:16.760
more time to serve.

1130
01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:19.079
Yeah, but how much harder would it be to swallow

1131
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:21.400
if if they went back to trial and were acquitted,

1132
01:01:21.599 --> 01:01:24.039
that that would be really hard to swallow. So yeah,

1133
01:01:24.039 --> 01:01:25.800
I can empathize with the prosecution there.

1134
01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:29.239
Yeah, absolutely. To me though, it's a win because Jack

1135
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.000
and Sarah got to go back to Ireland and it

1136
01:01:32.079 --> 01:01:35.679
sounds like the rest of their childhood years were you know,

1137
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:38.679
pretty good. A lot of credit goes to Dave and

1138
01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:40.400
Tracy feel raising them. Well.

1139
01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:43.159
So that's a great point. I'm glad you brought that up,

1140
01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:45.280
because in so many of these cases, you know, the

1141
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:50.480
kids are victimized again after their father or mother is killed.

1142
01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:53.360
And in this case, I think at least that turned

1143
01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:56.000
out pretty good as good as could be expected.

1144
01:01:56.039 --> 01:01:59.159
I mean, assuming that that Molly is guilty, you know,

1145
01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:01.960
come out us if you think that we're wrong. But

1146
01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:04.519
to me, it seems pretty clear that Molly had everything

1147
01:02:04.519 --> 01:02:05.639
to do with Jason's death.

1148
01:02:05.800 --> 01:02:09.639
Yeah. Do you think that there is any possibility that

1149
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:14.360
Jason was abusive toward Molly because I will admit, after

1150
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:18.280
watching the Netflix documentary, I first thought, you know, yeah,

1151
01:02:18.519 --> 01:02:21.440
it's possible that there was some abuse going on there.

1152
01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:25.039
I think as I did more research, I decided that

1153
01:02:25.079 --> 01:02:26.920
I didn't think it was likely. But again, I read

1154
01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:29.760
books by his family, so I'm probably a little bit

1155
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:30.519
biased on that point.

1156
01:02:30.519 --> 01:02:32.280
You would have mentioned that when you were doing your

1157
01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:35.719
research that you were afraid that you were coming up

1158
01:02:35.719 --> 01:02:38.719
one sided, but I don't know. To me, it all

1159
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:41.480
makes sense that everything points in that direction.

1160
01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:44.440
For me, yeah, I think the biggest evidence against him

1161
01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:47.280
being abusive is just as I read more and more

1162
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:51.519
about Molly and her propensity for lies and exaggeration, it

1163
01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:54.400
just really seemed to add up that she really did

1164
01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:57.840
want the kids for herself, and that was her primary motive.

1165
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.360
It is interesting to me that she one of the

1166
01:03:00.440 --> 01:03:03.320
kids so badly, Like, why did she want them so badly?

1167
01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:06.239
I'm sure she, assuming that she's capable of love, you know,

1168
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:08.960
loved them, but was it more about winning or was it,

1169
01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:11.079
you know, did she think she was the better home

1170
01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:11.800
for the children.

1171
01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:13.960
It's hard to know, it really is. I think you'd

1172
01:03:13.960 --> 01:03:16.920
have to be a have a few degrees in psychology

1173
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:18.719
to really to figure that out.

1174
01:03:19.360 --> 01:03:23.440
So the Netflix movie made me question the circumstances surrounding

1175
01:03:23.519 --> 01:03:26.320
Maggs's death a little bit. Yeah, what do you where

1176
01:03:26.320 --> 01:03:26.880
do you land on that?

1177
01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:30.119
Yeah? No, I agree. I also it brought up questions

1178
01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:32.920
for me as well. And the interesting thing was that,

1179
01:03:33.159 --> 01:03:35.880
I think in the documentary they mentioned this that the

1180
01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:39.880
prosecution the state also agreed that asthma was not her

1181
01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:42.719
cause of death. But I think the difference is that

1182
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:46.480
the state said, yeah, asthma wouldn't cause your death like that,

1183
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:48.880
it could be related, but there could be tons of

1184
01:03:48.880 --> 01:03:51.159
other causes that it could be, and there was nothing

1185
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:55.360
specifically to point to her being strangled and the fact

1186
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:56.159
that her st I.

1187
01:03:56.079 --> 01:03:59.199
Don believe that she was strangled necessarily, just that I

1188
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:01.360
was curious what could have caused her death?

1189
01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:01.800
Yeah?

1190
01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:05.440
Or was there negligence on Jason's side for not, you know,

1191
01:04:05.559 --> 01:04:07.159
getting her medical treatment earlier?

1192
01:04:07.360 --> 01:04:09.760
Yeah, it doesn't seem like it. I mean, so Mags's

1193
01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:13.159
sister Catherine was staying with Jason and Mags at the time,

1194
01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:16.400
and it seems like he did everything possible to get

1195
01:04:16.400 --> 01:04:19.159
her to the hospital, even meeting the ambulance halfway because

1196
01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:20.800
he didn't want to wait for the ambulance to get

1197
01:04:20.840 --> 01:04:23.159
all the way out to their house. So it really

1198
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:26.679
doesn't seem like he did anything wrong in that situation

1199
01:04:26.880 --> 01:04:31.559
to me, but again definitely open for you know, other opinions.

1200
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:34.800
Yeah. The one recording that we had of Molly, you know,

1201
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:38.800
secretly recording Jason in an argument, that seemed like maybe

1202
01:04:38.840 --> 01:04:41.159
she might have been provoking him a little bit. Yeah,

1203
01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:44.559
because she knew, like the whole pancake Day was important

1204
01:04:44.559 --> 01:04:47.519
part of his heritage and tradition they wanted to pass

1205
01:04:47.559 --> 01:04:50.079
on to his kids. The fact that the kids were

1206
01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:54.039
still there was a little telling to me that they

1207
01:04:54.079 --> 01:04:56.559
didn't know that, Oh, we should get out of here

1208
01:04:56.679 --> 01:04:58.440
because something bad is going to happen.

1209
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:01.480
That's a good point too. Sarah's book, she actually said

1210
01:05:01.800 --> 01:05:04.679
on that recording she you could actually hear her yelling

1211
01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:06.719
at her dad, like saying dad. I can't remember what

1212
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:08.960
she said exactly, but in her book she said, look,

1213
01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:11.039
that's proof I wasn't scared of my dad.

1214
01:05:11.000 --> 01:05:13.119
Right, Yeah, when I was a kid, Like, if there

1215
01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:15.639
was something going on like that, you got out of

1216
01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:17.960
the room because you kind of were afraid of what

1217
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:18.599
was going to happen.

1218
01:05:18.679 --> 01:05:21.039
Yeah, that's a really good point. One final thing I

1219
01:05:21.079 --> 01:05:24.239
wanted to mention both Jack and Sarah have found release

1220
01:05:24.320 --> 01:05:28.639
in music. Singing, Sarah says isn't about perfection or applause,

1221
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:32.239
it's about healing. And Jack, at age fifteen, posted a

1222
01:05:32.320 --> 01:05:35.639
video to YouTube singing a song called Dancing in the

1223
01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:38.960
Sky by Danny and Lizzie. He dedicated it to both

1224
01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:42.079
his mom Mags and his dad Jason. I wanted to

1225
01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:45.039
close our case discussion with a little bit of Jack's voice,

1226
01:05:45.320 --> 01:05:48.239
honoring the parents that he lost.

1227
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:59.400
Tell me, why doesn't guy in heaven?

1228
01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:03.199
Is it peaceful? Me?

1229
01:06:03.639 --> 01:06:07.480
Is itvery? They say?

1230
01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:11.880
Does the sun shot right? For?

1231
01:06:12.800 --> 01:06:23.079
Even? Have your fears and you're paying on away because

1232
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:33.360
you on earth? Diffuse like everything goodness, missy. Since you

1233
01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:43.800
love me and you're on earth, everything's different. There's an ending.

1234
01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:46.800
You're not going to be happy until you make us

1235
01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:50.039
all try, are you? Oh my gosh, that was beautiful.

1236
01:06:50.199 --> 01:06:51.800
I know he's a really beautiful voice.

1237
01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:52.239
Yeah.

1238
01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:54.519
I've seen videos of Sarah singing as well, and she

1239
01:06:54.639 --> 01:06:56.159
also has a really beautiful voice.

1240
01:06:56.360 --> 01:06:58.840
I wish them both just the very best in life.

1241
01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:02.440
Yeah. Through it they just seem like too, Yeah, just lovely,

1242
01:07:02.559 --> 01:07:05.880
lovely people. Long ago you did a case that was

1243
01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:10.320
set in Australia, and you educated us all several Australian

1244
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:14.519
sayings and terminology and words and things like that. So

1245
01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:16.559
I thought it would be good to do the same

1246
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:20.719
thing for Ireland because Ireland Irish people are known for

1247
01:07:20.880 --> 01:07:22.320
having a good turn of the foot.

1248
01:07:22.360 --> 01:07:26.719
We both have Irish in our backgrounds. Yes, like you

1249
01:07:26.800 --> 01:07:28.760
could be from our you know, I feel like they're

1250
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:31.960
my people. I feel like maybe I'll finally feel like

1251
01:07:32.000 --> 01:07:32.519
I fit in.

1252
01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:36.280
Really we really should, we really should go. So I've

1253
01:07:36.280 --> 01:07:38.599
got some sayings and some words for you that I

1254
01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:41.760
want to educate you on. Before I do that, I

1255
01:07:41.800 --> 01:07:44.840
just want to give apologies to our Irish listeners if

1256
01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:47.239
I have any of these wrongs. I did the best

1257
01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:49.880
research I could, but I know sometimes the internet, you know,

1258
01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:51.840
it can be a little questionable. And I'm not going

1259
01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:54.440
to do any accents. But if I accidentally slip into

1260
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:55.239
an accent.

1261
01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:57.599
You used to apology to a lot of accents.

1262
01:07:58.000 --> 01:07:59.800
All right, So here's some phrases I found. I think

1263
01:07:59.800 --> 01:08:01.639
this first one, and I think you'll know. But that's

1264
01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:04.239
a fine thing. You know what that means. That's a

1265
01:08:04.280 --> 01:08:04.800
fine thing.

1266
01:08:05.159 --> 01:08:07.960
I mean, I don't it's a good thing.

1267
01:08:08.239 --> 01:08:11.719
It's usually sarcastic. It means sort of like, that's typical,

1268
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:15.639
or okay, it figures I'm away with the fairies something

1269
01:08:15.840 --> 01:08:19.319
really run. That means you're daydreaming, not paying attention. Oh

1270
01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:21.640
I'm sorry, I'm away with the fairies right now.

1271
01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:23.399
Okay. I can't wait to tell that one to our

1272
01:08:23.479 --> 01:08:28.039
daughter because she really loves that girls a little spacey

1273
01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:28.800
just like her mom.

1274
01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:32.760
Yes, and this one is interesting. Acting the maggot means

1275
01:08:33.039 --> 01:08:37.439
messing around, goofing around, being silly, So quit acting the maggot.

1276
01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:40.840
We can say that to our kids as well. Chancing

1277
01:08:40.880 --> 01:08:43.319
your arm I thought that was an interesting one. Chancing

1278
01:08:43.359 --> 01:08:46.319
your arm means taking a risk or pushing your luck,

1279
01:08:46.720 --> 01:08:51.039
and it originates It's thought to originate from an incident

1280
01:08:51.159 --> 01:08:55.640
in fourteen ninety two at Saint Patrick's Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin,

1281
01:08:55.960 --> 01:08:59.079
where there was a feud and the feud was resolved

1282
01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:02.119
when a member of the Fitzgerald family cut a hole

1283
01:09:02.159 --> 01:09:05.399
in a door and extended their arm to offer a handshake.

1284
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:09.159
But obviously they were risking serious injury if the other

1285
01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:11.399
family was not willing to.

1286
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:13.479
Why did they have to put their hand through the door.

1287
01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:17.880
I don't know, that's sorry, I dropped my smoothing stuff there.

1288
01:09:18.720 --> 01:09:21.760
Great, thank thank goodness. That is a good question, though.

1289
01:09:22.720 --> 01:09:25.800
What's the crack or where is the crack? We talked

1290
01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:28.439
about crack a long time ago on another episode. But

1291
01:09:28.960 --> 01:09:31.359
that means just sort of like, how, what's going on?

1292
01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:34.039
What's happening? Where's what's where's the crack? Where's the crack?

1293
01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:37.560
Stall the ball? That means basically what we would say,

1294
01:09:37.560 --> 01:09:40.239
hold the phone, like if you said something to me

1295
01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:42.239
like that was shocking, and I would take install the

1296
01:09:42.279 --> 01:09:44.439
ball to you know, what are you talking about? On

1297
01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:49.239
me Todd means on my own, So basically you might

1298
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:52.640
say I'm going out alone like I'm on me Todd today.

1299
01:09:53.159 --> 01:09:56.680
And that phrase originates from an American jockey named Todd

1300
01:09:56.720 --> 01:09:59.199
Sloan who was always so far ahead of all the

1301
01:09:59.239 --> 01:10:02.560
other horses. Best kind of on its own. There's another

1302
01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:05.079
one I like, and that is to lob the gob.

1303
01:10:05.359 --> 01:10:08.119
So I'm gonna lob the gob at you later, which

1304
01:10:08.119 --> 01:10:11.039
basically means I'm gonna kiss someone.

1305
01:10:12.039 --> 01:10:14.039
Okay, I thought you were gonna go a little further there, but.

1306
01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:17.159
Okay, all right, And then I don't know if this

1307
01:10:17.239 --> 01:10:19.840
is a common Irish phrase, or if just somebody came

1308
01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:22.199
up with this on Reddit that I thought it was funny.

1309
01:10:22.239 --> 01:10:25.520
But you might say someone is all fart and no shite,

1310
01:10:27.199 --> 01:10:29.399
kind of like we would say someone is all talk

1311
01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:32.800
and no action or all hat and no great.

1312
01:10:32.840 --> 01:10:34.920
But I bet they sound a lot better with an

1313
01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:36.000
Irish accent.

1314
01:10:36.039 --> 01:10:38.760
Oh, they totally do. Just I've got one or two

1315
01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:42.640
that are more just like words but banjaxed if you

1316
01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:45.960
if something is broken or ruined, like you might say

1317
01:10:46.199 --> 01:10:50.520
the ice maker is completely banjaxed, which is very true

1318
01:10:50.680 --> 01:10:54.119
of our ice maker Egypt, which is basically idiot but

1319
01:10:54.319 --> 01:10:58.720
a total fool. Or yeah, this one surprised me. The

1320
01:10:59.159 --> 01:11:02.800
term cute horror. Cute horror does not mean what you

1321
01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:05.840
might think it means. Cute means like someone that is

1322
01:11:05.960 --> 01:11:09.239
crafty and cunning, like someone who is kind of a

1323
01:11:09.279 --> 01:11:12.600
scoundrel in business. But you would say they're a cute horror.

1324
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:15.079
Interesting. I hope we get to go to Ireland soon

1325
01:11:15.119 --> 01:11:16.159
and test those out.

1326
01:11:16.359 --> 01:11:17.359
I really do as well.

1327
01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:20.039
Those are probably are those all like outdated terms or

1328
01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:22.439
do you think those are like embedded into the culture.

1329
01:11:22.640 --> 01:11:25.920
From my research, my extensive research that I did those

1330
01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:29.000
are all except the all fart and no shite on

1331
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:33.239
our common terminology. But let us know if you are

1332
01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:35.199
Irish or listening from Ireland.

1333
01:11:35.399 --> 01:11:37.600
I have had some people from Ireland reach out to

1334
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:40.199
us and they are lovely and they all have encouraged

1335
01:11:40.279 --> 01:11:41.319
us to come visit them.

1336
01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:44.479
Yeah. Well, in this case, just to maybe close the circle.

1337
01:11:44.840 --> 01:11:49.560
This case was originally recommended by Marion from Dublin. So again,

1338
01:11:49.640 --> 01:11:52.199
thank you Marian for the recommendation. And yeah, let us

1339
01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:55.039
know if we if we got any of those phrases wrong.

1340
01:11:55.239 --> 01:11:57.399
I've been meaning to mention this for a while. We

1341
01:11:57.479 --> 01:12:01.239
have a lot of case recommendations and we're overwhelmed currently.

1342
01:12:01.800 --> 01:12:05.239
I think we could go probably a few years and sure.

1343
01:12:05.560 --> 01:12:07.199
Guess what I want to say is I'm sorry because

1344
01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:09.399
I know a lot of people recommend cases because they're

1345
01:12:09.439 --> 01:12:11.760
passionate about them. They mean something to them, they might

1346
01:12:11.800 --> 01:12:13.800
have a connection to them. So if you have a

1347
01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:15.920
case that means something to you that you might have

1348
01:12:15.960 --> 01:12:19.079
a personal connection to, you think would be really great

1349
01:12:19.079 --> 01:12:22.800
for our podcast. If you want to resubmit that it

1350
01:12:22.880 --> 01:12:23.840
might be a good idea.

1351
01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:26.720
Yeah, send us an email lovemarykill at gmail dot com

1352
01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:28.680
and give us a little more of that context around

1353
01:12:28.680 --> 01:12:31.720
it too, because that can help us to prioritize which

1354
01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:35.479
cases are going to be Y's interesting to do. Yeah,

1355
01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:35.880
what was.

1356
01:12:35.880 --> 01:12:36.680
The treat that you made?

1357
01:12:36.720 --> 01:12:40.399
Called again Irish chocolate biscuit cake. And the recipe that

1358
01:12:40.439 --> 01:12:42.239
I used, I'll post it, but it was from a

1359
01:12:42.239 --> 01:12:45.840
website called Stalina Sweets. There's a lot of different recipes

1360
01:12:45.880 --> 01:12:46.239
out there.

1361
01:12:46.359 --> 01:12:48.880
Well, I've been staring at this piece for the last

1362
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:51.239
couple of hours here and I can't help but think

1363
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:53.760
if you put like some little caramel bits in it,

1364
01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:54.960
it might be really good.

1365
01:12:55.279 --> 01:12:56.680
Yeah. I think it's very I think you could do

1366
01:12:56.720 --> 01:13:00.000
a lot of different variations on it and it would Yeah,

1367
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:00.680
it would be good.

1368
01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:03.479
Yeah, excellent, Thank you so much. It was really good. Well,

1369
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:05.840
one last thing before we go. I was thinking this

1370
01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:08.920
morning about how hard you work on our podcast. We

1371
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:12.039
both work on it really hard. But you, obviously everyone knows,

1372
01:13:12.079 --> 01:13:15.239
have a demanding full time job that you also excel at.

1373
01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:18.600
And there's a lot of podcasts like the husband wife

1374
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:21.439
podcasts the wife does most of the work and the

1375
01:13:21.520 --> 01:13:23.319
husband just has to show up. And you know, I

1376
01:13:23.359 --> 01:13:26.319
have a few quips, right, How do you feel about that?

1377
01:13:26.800 --> 01:13:29.640
Yeah, I think those guys are all late, you know.

1378
01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:31.960
I mean I just met, Like, are you Like, huh,

1379
01:13:31.960 --> 01:13:33.960
maybe I should just show up pull you know, just

1380
01:13:34.000 --> 01:13:36.960
pull up on recording day. And I love it.

1381
01:13:37.359 --> 01:13:39.960
That's really to do it, because I really do love it.

1382
01:13:40.039 --> 01:13:42.960
I love doing the research. I get totally engrossed, like

1383
01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:45.119
this is a case was a great example, Like I

1384
01:13:45.159 --> 01:13:48.359
really loved reading all the books about it. Yeah.

1385
01:13:48.439 --> 01:13:50.680
I just wanted to check in with you because you

1386
01:13:50.760 --> 01:13:52.880
do work a lot, and you sit in your little

1387
01:13:52.880 --> 01:13:55.840
office in your little chair, you know, for a lot

1388
01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:58.479
of hours every day, and sometimes they just worry about you.

1389
01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:00.399
So I'm going to take a day or so long. Now.

1390
01:14:00.680 --> 01:14:02.640
Yeah, you should absolutely worked really hard.

1391
01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:04.039
Let's go see the naked gun.

1392
01:14:04.359 --> 01:14:07.159
Good idea. Let's go have some fun and have some

1393
01:14:07.319 --> 01:14:11.920
laughs and some popcorn. Could have popcorn. Yeah. Well, we

1394
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:14.760
hope that you are having a wonderful day wherever you are.

1395
01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:19.880
We appreciate your support so much. We sure do please rate, review, follow,

1396
01:14:19.920 --> 01:14:22.720
and subscribe, and if you haven't before, if you would

1397
01:14:22.720 --> 01:14:26.760
consider leaving us a five star review on Apple or Spotify,

1398
01:14:27.039 --> 01:14:29.359
it means so much to us. You can find us

1399
01:14:29.399 --> 01:14:32.520
on social media or send us an email at lovemarykillat

1400
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:33.920
gmail dot com.

1401
01:14:34.039 --> 01:14:36.520
Until next time, don't cure a husband and don't kill

1402
01:14:36.520 --> 01:15:13.359
your wife. The bank to the