July 28, 2025

Nancy and Brad Cooper - Part 1

Nancy and Brad Cooper - Part 1
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In July 2008, in the quiet suburb of Cary, North Carolina, Nancy and Brad Cooper appeared to have it all: two beautiful daughters, a picture-perfect life, and a circle of close-knit friends. But behind closed doors, their marriage was unraveling. When Nancy vanished after a routine morning run, the investigation revealed cracks in their carefully constructed world—and left a trail of questions that still linger.

Listen to part 2 today

Today's snack: Dewey's Bakery cookies

Sources:

WEBVTT

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Hi. I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing

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we've learned in over twenty years of marriage.

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It's that some days you'll feel like killing your.

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Wife and some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina.

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How are you?

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I'm doing good?

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How are You've been super busy today? Yeah? I hardly

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seen your lovely face.

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I know it feels like we have not really connected

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it all today, So good to talk to you.

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How's the marriage meter?

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Oh?

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Do you feel like killing me?

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Or I'm You're on You're on the opposite end of

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the spectrum because you defrosted the icebaker was really truly heroic, amazing.

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I guess we should explain. We have a refrigerator and

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it's really dumb, but we don't go out and a

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new refrigerator. But that's a really big decision. Our ice

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maker has in the five years that we've lived here,

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has never really worked. Frustrated, it's really dumb, and the

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ice maker actually has completely given out. So we have

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gone old school and we resorted to using ice trays.

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It's hot as heck here in Michigan right now, so

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we're kind of going through the ice, and we thought

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always not a big deal, we'll just get but no,

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we both hate making the ice. So yeah, today the ice,

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which this is riveting content to subscribe to our Patriot

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I'm just kidding. But we're going to be off on

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vacation this week. If you're listening to this on Monday,

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our family is I'm sure we're having the time of

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our lives all together. Yeah, and we've opted for our

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road trip rather than an airplane trip, so it be fun.

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Excited about that.

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I am looking forward to it.

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Yeah, it'll be nice to have a little time away.

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And where we were recording today from Monday and then

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this is I'm pretty sure it's going to be two parts,

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so we have the next couple Mondays, so you'll not

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be left without a new episode. I know a lot

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of people are wondering, are you going to stop at BUCkies?

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Because we talk about how our dream trip involves stopping

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at BUCkies. We're going north, not south, so no BUCkies.

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We're going west.

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Well, we're going north too.

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We're going west then north.

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I'll tell you about it when we get back. But

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it's not the most exciting trip, but it'll be nice.

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I'm looking forward to it.

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I love a good road trip.

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We do love a good road trip. I think I

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prefer road trips because you can pack more, you can

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take more shoes, just throw them in the back of

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your car.

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I find it more relaxing too, Like I just like driving.

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You like driving, and you like listening to your music,

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and we're gonna have to take turns. Okay, maybe we

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can do some karaoke.

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Sure that sounds like fun.

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Well, let us know if you have any favorite gas

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station snacks that not BUCkies, but you think that we

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should try.

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Or any games to play in the car. Road trip

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games are always fun, I think.

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With our kids, who are both older, I mean I

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think everyone's just going to have their phones exactly. I

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think that it's probably not going to be a lot

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of the ABC game going, but maybe maybe the first

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hour or so. Oh. Also, if you have any good

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summer reads. Let us know if you've only read any

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good books lately, because we'll probably hopefully have a chance

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to do a lot.

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I am looking for a book to read.

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All right, Well, we are going back to North Carolina today.

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I know we were just in North Carolina, but we're

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going back today because when I was researching Michelle and

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Jason Young, I found another story that just really intrigued me.

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So I have a North Carolina snack for you.

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Okay, I'm going to North Carolina in a few weeks, so.

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Yeah, oh, we're in North Carolina, Charlotte. Okay. I bought

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some cookies for you from Dewey's Bakery and I actually

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tried them earlier. They're really good. They're super thin, and

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they're super crispy, and you can eat get this, you

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can eat eight cookies for one hundred and twenty calories.

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They're healthy, but two where one is brownie crisp and

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the other is Meyer Lemon. I also brought you some

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a Michigan snack, some Michigan sherries that are so delicious.

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Yeah, they are really good.

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Right now, Okay, we'll be right back. So what did

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you think of Dewey's Bakery cookies.

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I thought they were delightful, very thin, crispy, really good flavor.

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Full disclosure, you have not been eating sugar this week,

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so they probably tasted extra good.

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They did taste extra good. I was thinking the only

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thing that would really make them better is if you

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made some butter cream frosting and put it in the

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middle of two of them.

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They're very thin and they're very crispy. What would you

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rate them? From eight to ten?

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I would get from eight to ten.

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I mean, okay, you know what I meant.

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Well, I would give them a nine out of ten.

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Really, yeah, I would. Well, because I only gave you

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they could give them an eight, nine or ten, so

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I would give them an eight out of ten. I

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think That's what I was thinking of what I say,

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because I had I was like, I mean, they're a

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nice cookie. I think if you like tea or coffee,

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you would very much like these cookies for sure. Okay,

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onto the case. This episode does contain talk of domestic

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abuse that may be triggering for some listeners, so please

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listen with care and thanks to Tina from Dexter, Michigan

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for recommending this.

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Oh I Think I Know Her.

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On Saturday, July twelfth, two thousand and eight, in Carrie,

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North Carolina, Jessica Adam was worried about her friend, Nancy Cooper.

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Nancy had promised to be at Jessica's house at eight

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am to help her paint after her morning run. She

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wasn't answering her phone or text messages, which wasn't like

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her at all. Nancy's phone, car, wallet, and keys were

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all still at home. Jessica was beginning to panic. She

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had a pit in her stomach and her intuition was pinging,

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telling her something was very wrong. Nancy was in the

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midst of a contentious separation with her husband of eight years,

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Bradley Cooper, not that Bradley Cooper. When Jessica caught he

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told her that Nancy had gone for a run with

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her friend Carrie that morning and he hadn't seen her.

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Since Nancy was an avid runner and was training for

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a marathon, safety was a concern for Nancy, who usually

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ran the trails near her home along Lockmere Drive in

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the subdivision where she lived. Nancy and brad had attended

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a barbecue at their neighbor's house the previous night. Brad

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left around eight pm to put their little girls to bed,

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four year old Bella and nearly two year old Katie.

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He said he fell asleep in the girl's bedroom. Nancy

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got home from the party around twelve thirty am. Before

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calling the police, Jessica Adam phoned local hospitals, hoping for

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some sign of her missing friend. When that turned up nothing,

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she called nine one one at one fifty pm.

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According to her husband, when I called this morning at

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about nine that he said that she had left this

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morning for run early. He believed with her friend.

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Has he been violent with her in the past. I

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don't know that he's been the Queen Island.

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I know there's been a lot of tension, and so

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I you know, wouldn't be surprised.

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I hate to say it, but I'm.

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Just I'm not sure what to do.

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Is it possible that she might have done something else,

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had possibly forgotten she would have.

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Made contact with either me or her other friends by now,

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who both had expected her today. And the fact that

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her car is still at home and her cell phone

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in there is a little weird. She you know, that's

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that's that would not make sense.

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Well, that's a good friend. First of all, She sounded

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so nervous, like you could tell she.

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She's very away to her friend.

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Well you could tell she's worried, But you can tell

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she also thinks that Brad had something to do with it,

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but she's afraid to even say it, Like she doesn't

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even want to voice that fear.

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Right, Jessica asked if she needed to wait to file

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a missing person's report, but the dispatcher said no, though

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Nancy's husband, Brad, would need to make the official call.

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An officer was sent to the Cooper home to speak

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with Brad.

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That's kind of weird that Brad has to make the

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official call on that.

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I don't know the exact situation, but maybe it's like

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your closest living relative needs to make a call. I

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don't know. An hour later, another friend of Nancy's, Clea Morris,

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reached out to her identical twin sister, Christa Lister, who

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lived in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The sisters talked multiple times

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a day. When Christa heard that Nancy was missing, panic

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set in. She immediately called her brother in law. She'd

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never really liked him or believed that he was good

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enough for her sister. Brad told Christa the same thing

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that he'd told Jessica. Nancy had gone for a run

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and she hadn't come back yet. Christa alerted her parents

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and siblings. The family, close knit and protective, was shaken

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and frustrated that Brad hadn't contacted them himself. Christa later

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said quote she'd never leave her kids. I knew she

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was in danger. I couldn't feel her anymore. Jeff Renz,

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the oldest sibling, was a police officer, and his instincts

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told him that this would end badly. Christa tried to

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book a flight, but the bad weather had grounded all travel.

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Desperate to do something, she rented a car and drove

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the seven hundred and sixty miles from Toronto to carry

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North Carolina. But deep down, she already knew her twin,

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her other half, her best friend, was gone, and she

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was right. Nancy Lynne Rentz was born on August twenty fifth,

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nineteen seventy three, in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, to Donna and

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Gary Rentz, her identical sister, Christa, who was five minutes

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older and known for being the quieter of the two,

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while Nancy was the more outgoing one, a social butterfly.

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Their older brother, Jeff, was the only son in the family.

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The youngest sibling, Jill, was nine years younger than the

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twins and admired her older sisters, especially Nancy. Jill said quote,

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she was my entire life growing up. I wanted to

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be Nancy. I wanted to do everything with her. She

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was just that girl who not only guys, but everyone

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wanted to be around. My friends wanted her to be

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their sister. Everybody loved her. She was just perfection to me.

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The Rentz family ran a family business together and were

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a close knit, respected family. Nancy turned to running after

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she was diagnosed with Crohn's disease, an inflammatory ball disease

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or IBD that causes inflammation in the digestive tract, leading

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to belly pain, severe diarrhea, fatigue, weight loss, and malnutrition.

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It could be a painful and debilitating disease with no cure,

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but often a careful diet and lifestyle changes can lead

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to improved quality of life and the disease can go

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into remission for years. Running helped Nancy keep her symptoms

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in check and her anxiety at bay. Among the stress

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of her life and marriage. It read something that she

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at one time had aspirations of being an Olympic athlete.

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Oh wow.

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Bradley Graham Cooper was born in October nineteen seventy three

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and medicine had Alberta, Canada, to parents Carol and Terry.

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He has one younger brother named Grant. He hasn't divulged

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much of his upbringing, but he isn't very close with

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his family or any of his childhood friends. Later, when

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asked his nephew's name, he couldn't even remember it. His

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father was an organic chemistry professor who had high expectations

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for Brad's education and career. Brad graduated from the University

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of Calgary with a degree in computer science in nineteen

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ninety seven. Before he met Nancy, he was engaged twice.

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Nancy Wrintz met Brad Cooper when they were working together

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at Trans Canada Pipelines. Nancy worked in computer support and

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Brad was an IT specialist on contract through IBM. He

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was quiet, reserved and still recovering from a messy broken engagement.

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At first, Nancy actually considered setting him up with a friend,

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but after spending more time with him, she started to reconsider.

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Brad wasn't her usual type. He was more introverted than

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the outgoing, confident men she typically dated, but something about

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his quiet, serious nature drew her in. When Nancy and

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Brad went on a double date with Christa and Christa's

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future husband, Jim Lister, she wasn't impressed with Brad. He

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didn't say much and came off as awkward. Christa was

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surprised that Nancy wanted to keep seeing him. He just

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didn't seem like her usual type. The rest of the

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family had mixed opinions. Some appreciated Brad's quiet introspection and

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saw it as thoughtful. Others felt that he and Nancy

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were just too different. Nancy was social spirited and expressive.

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Brad was more reserved and analytical. But he made an

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effort to connect with the Rent's family, and they welcomed

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him with open arms. He and Jill, the youngest Rent's sister,

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grew especially close. He called her his little sister and

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they shared an easy, comfortable bond. Brad seemed to genuinely

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enjoy being part of such a close, loving family.

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The Brad is a super smart and one thing that

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he did of the family really appreciated. He came in

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and he completely redid their computer system for their family business,

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and he did a really good job and people were

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really impressed with his knowledge and abilities.

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On Christmas nineteen ninety nine, Brad proposed with a large

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diamond ring. Nancy said yes, but she had some doubts.

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She found herself thinking about a former boyfriend, an older

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man who was divorced with kids she preferred older men.

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That relationship ended because he didn't want more children and

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Nancy did. Brad did want a family, and that mattered

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to her. In the end, she chose to marry him,

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maybe not with absolute certainty, but with the hope that

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their differences could balance out and that they could build

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a good life together.

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If you're walking down the aisle and you're having doubts, yeah,

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maybe you just it's not going to get better.

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No, that's not not a good sign. When Brad was

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offered a position at Cisco Systems in North Carolina by

270
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his former boss, he and Nancy, he decided to marry

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quickly so she could accompany him to the United States.

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They tied the knot in a small ceremony before a

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Justice of the Peace on October thirteenth, two thousand. While

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Nancy's family attended, none of Brad's relatives or friends were present.

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The Ren's family was taken aback by how sudden it

276
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all was, especially since Nancy had always envisioned a large,

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traditional wedding surrounded by loved ones. The move also meant

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a major sacrifice for Nancy, despite her promising career in management,

279
00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:32.159
she would have to give it up as she wasn't

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permitted to work in the US with only a green card.

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Jill later said, quote, she was so successful here and

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she gave up everything to go there and try something new.

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And she just wanted a family. She wanted to buy

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the house. She wanted to have the two point five

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kids and the two cars. So she was just willing

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to give up so much of herself and what was

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important to her to make it happen.

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There really was a big sacrifice.

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Yeah, it really is. You don't think about that with

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Canada and the US, we almost think of them as

291
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:03.919
same country. But yeah, you need authorization to work. On

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January first, two thousand and one, Brad and Nancy Cooper

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moved to the US and bought a home in Carrie,

294
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North Carolina, in the well established Lockmere Subdivision, a neighborhood

295
00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:17.039
of about nineteen hundred homes set on wooded lots with

296
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a pond and miles of running trails and a quiet

297
00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:23.279
suburban feel. It was a good location, only ten minutes

298
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to Raleigh and twenty minutes to the airport, with lots

299
00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.639
of convenient shopping and dining options, and very low crime.

300
00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:30.039
Rates.

301
00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.879
The Cooper's brick two story house, built in nineteen ninety three,

302
00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.879
was twenty eight hundred square feet and cost two hundred

303
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:40.240
and fifty thousand dollars. But for Nancy, that first year

304
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:44.279
in North Carolina was anything but idyllic. She felt increasingly

305
00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:48.679
isolated and unhappy. As Brad's control over her tightened. She

306
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:53.039
traveled back to Canada, often seeking comfort and clarity. During

307
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:55.879
one of those visits, she confided in her family that

308
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:58.879
she believed she had made a mistake marrying Brad. She

309
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.159
was ready to leave the brief marriage. Nancy knew it

310
00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.159
was wrong, but she had started seeing someone new, a

311
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.080
man she felt drawn to and compelled to give a chance.

312
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She even brought him to Christa's wedding. There was a

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00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.320
connection she couldn't ignore, and for the first time in

314
00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.720
a long while, she was happy and optimistic about the future.

315
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She planned to leave Brad for this other man, but

316
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Nancy's family encouraged her to give the marriage more time

317
00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:26.840
to try to make it work. Her younger sister, Jill,

318
00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:29.879
took the news especially hard. She had always been close

319
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.279
to Brad and had firmly believed in their relationship. Jill

320
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.440
urged Nancy not to walk away, telling her she was

321
00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.919
making a mistake. Among the family, Jill had been Brad's

322
00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:44.080
strongest supporter. Brad eventually flew to Canada to see Nancy

323
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and promised to try harder to fix what was broken

324
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:50.399
in their marriage. Reluctantly, Nancy agreed to return to North

325
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.000
Carolina with him, but things between them were far from resolved.

326
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:57.480
That was the first year of their marriage, and in

327
00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:01.600
my estimation, they never had a honey moon period. Seemed

328
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.559
like they were always at odds with each other.

329
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.759
Yeah, that's really not like even you know, doubting the

330
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:09.079
marriage before she got married, and then not having any

331
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:12.119
kind of honeymoon period. It's all just a really bad

332
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:13.519
sign that it's not going to work out.

333
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.839
Nancy was exceptionally social and she really loved her family

334
00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:20.759
and they were very close, So ripping her away from

335
00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:24.039
her support network and her job and I think it

336
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:27.039
really left her lost in a lot of ways.

337
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.599
I'm sure. Brad worked long hours as a network engineer

338
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:35.279
at Cisco Systems, specializing in voiceover Internet Protocol or VoIP,

339
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:38.880
a rapidly growing technology that allowed phone calls to travel

340
00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:43.000
over computer networks instead of traditional phone lines. In two

341
00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:46.000
thousand and eight, VoIP was still emerging, and Brad had

342
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.839
carved out a niche as one of its top experts,

343
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:51.799
with a rare skill set held by only about one

344
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hundred and fifty people worldwide. At the time, he was

345
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.480
considered a leader in the field of telecommunications. The early

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00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:02.119
two thousands brought a boom tech and Brad's expertise kept

347
00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:05.640
him in high demand, especially in Europe and across the US.

348
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.160
He often traveled for weeks at a time, rarely checking

349
00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.920
in with Nancy at home. That was a crazy time

350
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.559
for technology, and if you were in that field as

351
00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.400
I was back then, like you could write your ticket

352
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:19.880
to whatever company you wanted, and if you had like

353
00:18:19.880 --> 00:18:22.920
a specialized expertise like that, But traveling for weeks at

354
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.359
a time, that must have not been good for the

355
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:26.680
marriage exactly.

356
00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.160
You traveled a lot back then, I did. Yeah, we'll

357
00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.680
talk more about this later. But Brad I felt like,

358
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.799
didn't make as much money maybe as he could have,

359
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.000
because it sounds like, you know, he was one of

360
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:41.039
only one hundred and fifty people that could do this,

361
00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.400
but they did have a lot of financial struggles.

362
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.799
Yeah, that is surprising because I would think he would

363
00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.640
have been able to write his own ticket, We'll be

364
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.799
back after a break.

365
00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:01.119
Isabella Nancy Cooper Bella was born in February two thousand

366
00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:04.200
and four, and Nancy was overjoyed to become a mother.

367
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Though her marriage was still floundering. Motherhood gave her a

368
00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.400
renewed sense of purpose and perspective. Becoming a parent also

369
00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.480
opened a door to new, lasting friendships. People were naturally

370
00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.880
drawn to Nancy's warmth and energy, and she quickly became

371
00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:22.640
a cherished friend to many. She was so charismatic and

372
00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:25.960
engaging everyone thought that they were her best friend. Her

373
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.519
twin Christa recalled quote they had finally kind of found

374
00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.519
their way, and Nan was happy she had a kid,

375
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:36.240
She had a great friend network. Wasn't necessarily happy in

376
00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:39.440
her marriage, but happy in her life. The birth of

377
00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:42.839
Bella gave Brad even more control over Nancy's day to

378
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.519
day life. He put her on a weekly allowance of

379
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.839
about three hundred dollars, just enough to cover groceries and

380
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:51.880
basic necessities, and she didn't have a car of her own.

381
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.480
Nancy didn't mind going without for herself, but what she

382
00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.759
couldn't accept was not being able to provide everything bella needed,

383
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:02.480
especially when there was no financial reason for it. Brad

384
00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:04.880
had a good job and made a solid income. To

385
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.240
make ends meet, Nancy began babysitting for friends, but when

386
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.400
Brad found out, he started giving her even less money.

387
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.000
When I wrote that section, I don't think I had

388
00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:17.559
the whole view of their finances. I thought that Brad

389
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.839
had this great job and he was, you know, one

390
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:23.160
of the leaders in his industry. But in actuality, and

391
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:24.720
we're going to talk about it more in a little bit,

392
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.119
they were struggling a little bit. In July two thousand

393
00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:32.319
and six, their second daughter, Gabriella Catherine, whom they called Katie,

394
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:36.279
was born. Nancy adored her girls and poured herself into motherhood,

395
00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.799
but this was the point when the marriage became unbearable.

396
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.720
Brad's career was taking off, and with that came more

397
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:46.039
travel and more ego. Nancy wasn't the only one who

398
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.599
noticed the shift in his demeanor. The quiet, reserved man

399
00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.960
that she once knew seemed to be disappearing and replaced

400
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:57.119
with a cold, self absorbed man. Brad was also going

401
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:00.440
to school at North Carolina State for his MBA. He

402
00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:04.119
also trained for iron Man triathlons, which left him little

403
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.559
time for Nancy and the girls. Bred Adam, a friend

404
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.119
of the couple, later said in an affidavit that Brad

405
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.839
sometimes rode his exercise bike for eight hours at a

406
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:15.279
time to avoid his parenting responsibilities.

407
00:21:17.440 --> 00:21:19.200
Parenting, so you.

408
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.799
Must have been in very good shapely. Brad's wife, Jessica,

409
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.039
was harsh in her assessment of Brad. Quote I would

410
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:30.400
describe Brad as socially upt selfish, moody, and unpredictable. Nancy

411
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.119
walked on eggshells around Brad and did her best to

412
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.880
appease him so that she could avoid confrontation with him.

413
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.319
If she made him angry, he punished her in calculated,

414
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.480
manipulative ways. Brad's lack of involvement in his daughter's lives

415
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:47.160
was shocking. Nancy's friends all said that he didn't attend

416
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.720
their birthday parties, school events, dance recitals, or doctor visits.

417
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:55.319
Nancy had suffered from five miscarriages before Bella and Katie's berths,

418
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.839
and each time Nancy, who didn't have a car at

419
00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.000
the time, had to take a taxi to the hospital.

420
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:04.640
So there are different accounts here. Brad denies some of

421
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.279
these things. He said, I was at the birthday parties.

422
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:10.720
You know, I went to the things. But he accuses

423
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:14.599
Nancy of painting a really bad picture of him to

424
00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:19.400
her friends. For years, Nancy had quietly suspected that Brad

425
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:23.519
was unfaithful during his business trips brief passing affairs. She

426
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.240
couldn't prove, but she couldn't shake either. But nothing compared

427
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:30.279
to the betrayal that came when he began a relationship

428
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:34.839
with her best friend, Heather Mature. According to sworn affidavits

429
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.079
from eight of Nancy's close friends, that affair was the

430
00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:42.319
final breaking point in the Cooper's already troubled marriage. Nancy's

431
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.000
friends had never been particularly fond of Brad. They described

432
00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:50.079
him as a loner, quiet, socially awkward, and standoffish. He

433
00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:52.960
had a way of making people uncomfortable, and more than

434
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:57.119
one friend referred to him as self absorbed or even narcissistic.

435
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.000
The affair only confirmed what many of them had feared

436
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:02.720
it all along, that Brad was not the partner that

437
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.720
Nancy deserved. After a beach trip with friends, including Heather

438
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.240
Mature and her husband, Brad suddenly insisted that Nancy cut

439
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.960
off contact with her, calling her a bad influence. During

440
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.440
that same trip, Brad and Heather had taken a walk

441
00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:19.519
on the beach and disappeared together for nearly two hours.

442
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:22.599
Nancy's sisters had met Heather and didn't like her. They

443
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:27.559
found her loud, attention seeking, and manipulative. Still, Nancy continued

444
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.759
to see Heather socially, but kept it from Brad. In

445
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:34.119
late two thousand and seven, over dinner and drinks, Heather

446
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.279
confessed to Nancy that she had slept with Brad. She

447
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:40.200
also admitted that she was involved with another friend's husband,

448
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:43.960
John Pearson, an affair that had turned messy with a

449
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.880
man's wife filing a lawsuit against her. Knowing her reputation

450
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:50.519
was catching up with her, Heather said that she wanted

451
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:54.720
Nancy to hear it from her directly. When Nancy confronted Brad,

452
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.440
he flatly denied the affair. He gasped at her, turning

453
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.559
the situation around so compleat depletely that Nancy ended up

454
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:06.039
apologizing to him. At the time, she told herself that

455
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.240
brad sneile was enough, but she caught off ties with Heather,

456
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:12.920
suggesting that she knew the truth deep down. One day,

457
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.279
when Nancy was out running errands and Bella napped in

458
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.759
the primary bedroom. Heather came by the Cooper house. She

459
00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.759
and Brad had sex in the bedroom closet, just steps

460
00:24:21.799 --> 00:24:25.200
away from his sleeping daughter, and her two children were

461
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:28.079
also in the house. Oh my gosh. It's unclear when

462
00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.640
Nancy found out about that specific encounter, but after months

463
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.279
of denials and heated arguments, on New Year's Day two

464
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.759
thousand and eight, Brad gave Nancy what he called the

465
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.240
full story. He admitted to sleeping with Heather, but claimed

466
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.400
it had only happened once and it was a drunken mistake.

467
00:24:44.079 --> 00:24:46.599
Nancy wasn't sure she could move past the affair, but

468
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.519
her mother, Donna Wrence, encouraged her to give the marriage

469
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.720
another chance. She believed that Nancy and Brad could work

470
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.480
through it. Brad, for his part, seemed remorseful. He promised

471
00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.559
to attend marriage counseling and made a renewed effort to

472
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:02.519
win Nancy back. He told her they could start fresh,

473
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:05.759
build their dream home together. They bought a lot and

474
00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.119
began working with a builder to choose a floor plan.

475
00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:12.240
For a while, Nancy felt hopeful. She was genuinely excited

476
00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:15.279
about the possibility of a new beginning, even if it

477
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:18.319
was with Brad. But then her bubble of happiness first

478
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.279
when during a therapy session, Brad told her the truth

479
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.279
about the affair with Heather. He was actually in love

480
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:28.079
with Heather. They actually only had one therapy session, and

481
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:31.359
then Nancy was like, oh, yeah, that's all it took. Dounia,

482
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:35.039
Nancy's friend Cleia Morwick later wrote in an an affidavit,

483
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.279
quote after a year of lies and aggressive, heated arguments

484
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.240
over the affair, Brad admitted it had occurred and that

485
00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:42.960
he had been in love with Heather at the time.

486
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:45.680
This was the final slap in the face for Nancy.

487
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.960
She had been ridiculed, verbally badgered, and humiliated again and

488
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.960
again by Brad. Soon after, Nancy ran into an acquaintance

489
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:58.160
who had been in Brad's NBA program at NC State. Unprompted,

490
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.079
she said, quote, if you're of whor'sing your husband, I'm

491
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:03.920
glad to give you evidence. And then, to make matters

492
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:05.920
even worse, she found out that there was at least

493
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.480
one other woman, a coworker's wife. Nancy told Brad their

494
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:13.279
marriage was unsalvigable. They stopped sharing a bed when Brad

495
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:16.079
moved into the guest bedroom. Brad called the builder to

496
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.880
cancel their home plans. When the builder, clearly angry, asked why,

497
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:22.480
Brad told him that his wife was terminally ill.

498
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.680
Brad slowly broke down Nancy with his abuse. When in

499
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.359
his presence she was smaller, Brad had dimmed her bright light.

500
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.000
He would beraate her in front of their children and

501
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.359
control every aspect of her life. She feared for her

502
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:39.279
and the girl's safety. It got so bad she began

503
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:41.680
sleeping in her clothes in the girl's room with the

504
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.519
door locked, her car keys in her pocket in case

505
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:47.759
she needed to make a quick escape. Once confident and

506
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.119
self assured, she was now broken. At times she was

507
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:54.039
angry and sharp with friends and her children, and at

508
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:57.880
other times she just seemed sad. She jokingly referred to

509
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:01.680
her husband as the budget Nazi, but she was clearly rattled.

510
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:05.319
Not Able to provide everything the children needed, she frequently

511
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.720
turned to her parents for help financially. Brad had taken

512
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:10.880
her name off of all the credit cards and their

513
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:13.720
bank account. One time, when Brad was out of town,

514
00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:16.000
the water was shut off because he had failed to

515
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:18.799
pay the water bill. Nancy had no way of paying

516
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:21.000
the bill, which left her and the girls without water

517
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.720
until he finally paid it. Friends also thought that Brad,

518
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:28.160
using the technology from his job, listened in on Nancy's

519
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.279
phone calls and sometimes abruptly ended them. It sounds crazy,

520
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:35.000
but it happened so often that Nancy's friends were sure

521
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.920
that he was doing something. At times, he took her

522
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:41.319
cell phone for several days as punishment. He controlled when

523
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:43.720
Nancy left the house and who she spent time with.

524
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:46.920
A week before her murder, Nancy and the girls were

525
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:50.359
having dinner with Jessica and brad Adam. Brad called her

526
00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:52.559
and told her that she had no right to decide

527
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.400
where the girls ate dinner that night. He demanded she

528
00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.519
come home immediately, and he sounds like a monster.

529
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.880
There are two sides to this story, though. I'm telling

530
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:05.839
it from Nancy's point of view. But you know, there

531
00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:10.160
are people that believe that Brad has been railroaded. Okay,

532
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:12.599
so we'll talk more about that later, all right.

533
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.279
In March two thousand and eight, Nancy retained attorney Alice

534
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.920
Stubbs to begin the process of a legal separation. When

535
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:22.079
she told Brad their marriage was over and that she

536
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:24.920
planned to move back to Canada with Bella and Katie.

537
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:29.240
He initially agreed, but made an unusual request. He asked

538
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.160
that they remain in North Carolina for the summer, after

539
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:34.160
which she could leave with the girls and he would

540
00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:35.160
never see them again.

541
00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:37.519
That's weird, right, That's very weird.

542
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:41.599
But soon Brad changed his mind. He proposed a shocking

543
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.480
new arrangement. They would split custody by separating the sisters,

544
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:47.279
each parent taking one child.

545
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.240
That's crazy, too, that is crazy.

546
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.599
It was a disturbing suggestion that seemed to reflect his

547
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.960
growing instability as his control over Nancy slipped away.

548
00:28:56.519 --> 00:29:00.640
Brad later denied suggesting any of this. He said, what

549
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:04.759
he meant was, you take Bella's passport, I'll take Katie's passport.

550
00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:07.839
That way, neither of us can leave the country with

551
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:08.400
the girls.

552
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:12.680
Okay. Not long after, Brad reversed course again. He told

553
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:14.880
Nancy he was putting the house on the market at

554
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:17.039
the end of April and that she and the girls

555
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:20.680
needed to move out. Alice Stubbs emailed a formal separation

556
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.680
agreement to Nancy on April fifteenth, two thousand and eight.

557
00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:27.599
Nancy didn't sign it or give it to Brad. In person. Later,

558
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.519
a claim was made that Brad had intercepted the document

559
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.559
and Nancy had never received it. The agreement stated that

560
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:35.839
Brad would have to pay twenty one hundred dollars a

561
00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:38.799
month in child support and a yet to be determined

562
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:42.119
amount in alimony. As far as custody, Nancy would have

563
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:45.960
primary custody in Canada and Brad could have visitation every

564
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:49.519
other weekend and two weeks in the summer. Brad claimed

565
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.519
that these expenses, along with the school tuition and medical

566
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:55.359
expenses he would be expected to pay, would be more

567
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:56.519
than he made in a month.

568
00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:59.960
So when Brad was saying go ahead and move to Canada,

569
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:02.000
I don't think he was thinking, oh, I'm going to

570
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.880
still have to pay, you know, to support you and

571
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:05.440
the kids.

572
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:07.599
He was thinking that would get him out of all that, right.

573
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:10.680
It seemed like he intercepted this document Nancy. I'm not

574
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:13.000
sure if she had seen it, and he saw that

575
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.319
amount of money and he was like, oh crap, and

576
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:18.680
that is a lot of money. Yeah, but a man

577
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.559
should have to support his family, right.

578
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:24.000
Once Brad realized that Nancy and the girls moving to

579
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.799
Canada wouldn't end his financial obligation to them, his perspective

580
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:31.480
again shifted. Brad changed his mind and decided he wouldn't

581
00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:34.559
allow Nancy to take the girls to Canada. Nancy had

582
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.759
hidden their passports and other important documents in her car,

583
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.000
but Brad found them, took them and refused to give

584
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.279
them back. Soon after, he announced he would be seeking

585
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.160
full custody. To those close to the situation, his decision

586
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:51.079
appeared to be driven more by financial motives than a

587
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:54.000
genuine desire to have the children with him full time.

588
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:57.039
Brad had taken a class geared towards men who are

589
00:30:57.079 --> 00:31:00.160
getting a divorce on how to limit financial loss and

590
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.400
win custody. He attempted to become a more hands on

591
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:06.119
dad and claimed he wanted to make their marriage work,

592
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:08.640
but Nancy knew it was all a ruse to win

593
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:13.000
in court and avoid paying alimony and child support. Overwrought,

594
00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:16.599
Nancy called Christa sobbing on the phone. Christa was so

595
00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:19.720
upset she talked to her parents, who were visiting China,

596
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:22.759
and begged them to come home to help Nancy leave Brad.

597
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:26.119
Christa and Jill tried to devise an escape for Nancy,

598
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:28.720
but she was confident that she just had to tough

599
00:31:28.759 --> 00:31:31.799
out a few more months, and then she'd have her freedom.

600
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.920
Nancy told christa quote, I can do this. I can

601
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:37.720
make this work out until I get there. I'm not worried,

602
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:39.720
I'm angry, and I want to move on.

603
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:42.759
To get Nancy's mind off of her marriage woes. The

604
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:45.440
first week of July, Nancy and the girls met her

605
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:49.400
parents and siblings on Hilton had Island for a family vacation.

606
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:52.960
They had a wonderful trip, but saying goodbye was heart wrenching.

607
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:56.119
Nancy clung to her family at the airport and told

608
00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:58.200
her parents she just wanted to go home with them.

609
00:31:58.599 --> 00:32:01.799
They all sobbed, but planned to be reunited soon. When

610
00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:05.400
Nancy returned home on July seventh, she was shocked at

611
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:08.279
the state of things at her house. Brad hadn't washed

612
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:11.759
a single dish, had left messes in every room of

613
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.279
the house, and the refrigerator was empty. The kitchen was

614
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:18.400
covered in ants and maggots. It was as if Brad

615
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:20.480
had gone out of his way to leave a mess

616
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.720
in every room of the house for her to come

617
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:23.079
home to.

618
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:25.759
It almost sounds like he was sending her a message like,

619
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:26.839
don't do this again.

620
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:30.839
Nancy left the following voicemail for her father quote, I

621
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:33.480
came home and the house was so dirty. There was

622
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.640
an ant infestation on the table. The plates the girls

623
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:39.319
ate on are still in the sink with food and

624
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.799
ants on them. I'm so furious at how disgusting my

625
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.799
house was when I got there. There were so many

626
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.599
bugs in the house when Nancy returned that she had

627
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:52.519
to call the exterminator. Full disclosure. I don't think Nancy

628
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:55.839
and Brad either, one of them keeping their house clean.

629
00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:57.759
Didn't sound like it was a top priority.

630
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:01.759
Well, keeping it a little cleaner, so thatots oh.

631
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:05.440
Yeah, no, absolutely, But I don't think Nancy was the

632
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:09.279
best housekeeper either. And Nancy was, like I said, she

633
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:12.319
was an extrovert. She liked to talk to people, and

634
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:17.680
she didn't have a problem telling people like her situation

635
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:21.880
in her marriage, like the exterminator, who later testified she

636
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:24.880
even told him, yeah, my husband and I are going

637
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:27.680
through a rough time. You know, we're going to get divorced.

638
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:31.599
She's you know, so yeah yeah. Later that week, on Friday,

639
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:35.160
July eleventh, the Cooper's neighbors hosted a party. Nancy, Brad,

640
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.640
and the girls attended, and everyone who attended remembered the

641
00:33:38.680 --> 00:33:42.240
tension between the couple. This is where we started, so

642
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:44.519
we're coming back to the beginning. Brad left at eight

643
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.799
pm with Bella and Katie. Nancy staid until after midnight,

644
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.119
and sadly it would be the last night of Nancy's life.

645
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:54.000
The next morning, Nancy was supposed to be at Jessica

646
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:57.519
adams house at eight am to help her paint. Jessica

647
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:00.400
and her husband, Brad, had hired her to paint so

648
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:03.319
she could earn some extra money. Nancy was grateful for

649
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:05.359
the work, but when she didn't show up by nine

650
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.519
thirty and wasn't answering her cell phone, Jessica began to worry.

651
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:12.519
She called the Cooper's home phone. When Brad answered, he

652
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.400
told her that Nancy had gone running with her friend Carrie.

653
00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.719
This didn't make sense to Jessica because she usually ran

654
00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:22.320
with Nancy, but she let the thought go. At twelve thirty,

655
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.519
Nancy still hadn't shown up. Brad called her and asked

656
00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:28.159
for Carrie's phone number and told her that Nancy still

657
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.039
wasn't home and he was concerned. Rad said he and

658
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:33.760
the girls were going out to look for her. Jessica

659
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.599
had an uneasy feeling and decided to call the police.

660
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.199
She was so rattled that she asked a friend to

661
00:34:39.320 --> 00:34:42.239
drive her to the Cooper's home. By the time the

662
00:34:42.280 --> 00:34:45.400
police arrived, a small crowd of Nancy's friends had gathered

663
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:48.480
outside her home. Nancy's friends remind me a lot of

664
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.000
Chanan Watts's friends to remember.

665
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:52.199
How, yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

666
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.119
Actually yeah, and Nancy has a small army of friends

667
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:58.599
who really had her back. Nancy's friends remind me a

668
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:00.320
lot of Schanan Watts's friend friends.

669
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.599
Remember how, yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

670
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:05.519
Actually yeah, And Nancy has a small army of friends

671
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.920
who really had her back. Yeah. They alerted the police,

672
00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:11.639
you know, way before Brad would. If I told you

673
00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:13.320
I was going out for a run, first of all,

674
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:17.199
you would be you would be a little surprised, little

675
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:19.519
maybe a little not But I don't exercise, but I

676
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:23.199
usually do it here, right, But how long would it

677
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:24.840
take for you to call the police?

678
00:35:25.320 --> 00:35:28.000
I mean not super long, Like if you were gone

679
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:29.719
for an hour, I would start to get worried.

680
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.280
It depends why I'm leaving the house.

681
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:33.719
Well right, sure, yeah, But if you.

682
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:37.639
If I say I'm going out for a run, phone. Right.

683
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:39.719
If you regularly went out for runs and you were

684
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:42.039
usually like less than an hour, I would start to

685
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:43.000
get worried after hot.

686
00:35:42.920 --> 00:35:46.480
Pretty quickly, and you would probably drive around. I totally

687
00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:48.039
would definitely within two hours.

688
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:49.519
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.

689
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.880
When Brad returned from looking for Nancy, he told officers

690
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:56.039
that earlier that morning, Katie had woken up around four

691
00:35:56.079 --> 00:36:00.559
am tired and cranky, wanting milk. Nancy woke up soon after,

692
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:03.119
annoyed that he hadn't told her the night before that

693
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:06.239
they were out of milk. Around six fifteen am, he

694
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.159
went to the Harris Teeter grocery store to buy milk,

695
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:13.119
a trip captured on the store's surveillance footage. This grocery

696
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:15.840
store was about two miles away from the Cooper's home.

697
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:20.400
There was another grocery store, Lowe's Foods, much closer across

698
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:24.119
the streets from the subdivision. When Brad returned home, Nancy

699
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:26.000
asked if he could go back out and pick up

700
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:29.400
laundry detergent. While he was on his way, Nancy called

701
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:32.039
his cell phone to ask if he could also grab

702
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:35.559
a naked brand green juice, a call that appeared on

703
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:39.519
his cell phone log lasting thirty eight seconds. I'm just

704
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.519
curious how long this phone call would take, just calling

705
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.639
to ask, Yeah, let's just reenact it really quick.

706
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:47.639
Yeah, I don't think. Well, Okay, are you going to

707
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:48.280
be Nancy here?

708
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:48.719
Sure?

709
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:49.320
Hello?

710
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.119
Oh hey, would you mind getting some green juice while

711
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:54.039
you're at the store? Bella really would like some.

712
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:55.760
Sure, I'll pick them up.

713
00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:57.079
All right, thanks, talk to you later.

714
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:58.280
Bye bye.

715
00:36:58.519 --> 00:36:59.679
That was nine seconds.

716
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:03.239
Maybe they said one or two other things besides just that.

717
00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:07.320
Yeah. Also, while I was researching this case, I was

718
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:11.800
just curious how much milk is at different stores. And

719
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.800
the Harris Teeter, which is the one that was a

720
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.280
couple of miles away, the milk is more expensive today,

721
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:18.239
is more expensive, I don't know what it cost in

722
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:22.400
two thousand and eight, and the Low's store it was,

723
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.639
you know, like a somewhat cheaper. And he got laundry

724
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.480
detergent too, And milk is one thing, but laundry detergent

725
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:32.880
is fairly expensive, and that was also cheaper at the

726
00:37:32.920 --> 00:37:37.239
low store. But then, because you know, I'm a researcher,

727
00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:41.719
I also checked those items here at our local Myer store,

728
00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:46.119
and everything at our store was at least a dollar cheaper.

729
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.519
So I worked in grocery stores for years, and I'm

730
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:53.360
a big grocery store NERD. So I was curious about

731
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:56.719
the differences between North Carolina and here, and I thought

732
00:37:56.840 --> 00:37:59.719
that the prices in North Carolina would be cheaper than

733
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:02.679
the prices in ann Arbor, Michigan. But I was surprised that,

734
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:05.360
you know, like I said, the milk is like a

735
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.239
dollar more than a dollar cheaper here. And I also

736
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.519
checked the naked juice is cheaper in ann Arbor, and

737
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:16.119
so is tied fascinating. So if anyone in North Carolina

738
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:18.199
is thinking about a move to Michigan, you know, maybe

739
00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.320
maybe we're a little yeah. Brad was seen on surveillance

740
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.039
again leaving the same store at six forty five am,

741
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.400
notably wearing different shoes. When he got home, he went

742
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:30.280
upstairs to his office with Katie. He said that Nancy

743
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:32.519
called out to ask if he'd seen her running shirt.

744
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:34.920
A moment later, he heard the front door open and

745
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:37.760
close as she headed out for her usual morning run

746
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:41.159
at about seven am. So this kind of surprised me,

747
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.639
because would I ever say, hey, Rich, have you seen

748
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:44.519
my workout shirt?

749
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:48.280
No, you would never say when I might ask you that.

750
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.119
But you would never ask me that, right.

751
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:52.400
So Brad had a tennis date with a friend at

752
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:55.480
nine am, but when Nancy didn't return, he pushed it back,

753
00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:58.159
assuming that she'd stop for a coffee and would be

754
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:01.599
home soon. When she didn't return ten he canceled on

755
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.679
his tennis plans and grew more concerned. I'm a little

756
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:09.280
confused about the timing here because Brad has this tennis date,

757
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:12.760
but Nancy is supposed to be painting her friend's house,

758
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.280
and I'm not sure who was supposed to have the kids.

759
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:16.679
Yeah, that's a good question.

760
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:19.760
Maybe Nancy was going to take the girls with her. Yeah,

761
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:22.360
they don't know. Brad said he didn't call nine one

762
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.000
one himself because he had taken the girls with him

763
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.239
to go look for Nancy. In Anatha David, he wrote, quote,

764
00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:30.960
by one pm, I was very concerned about Nancy's not

765
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:33.800
coming home. I fed Bella and Katie lunch, dressed them,

766
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.039
and put them in the car. We drove around looking

767
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.119
for Nancy at the places she usually goes. He said.

768
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:42.239
He looked at the running trails that Nancy usually ran

769
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:46.639
and lifetime fitness. He didn't call the police or Nancy's parents. Later,

770
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:48.840
he said that he was under the impression that he

771
00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:52.400
needed to wait twenty four hours before reporting a person missing.

772
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:55.360
He claimed that in the last year his marriage to Nancy,

773
00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:59.159
he had refocused on their family. Quote, I dropped my

774
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.920
extra activity and evening workout so that I could be

775
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.079
home directly from work and spend more time with Nancy,

776
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.639
give her a break from the girls, and help her

777
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:10.400
more around the house. I love Nancy very much, and

778
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:12.159
I wanted to stay married to her.

779
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.719
He sounds like the husband and father of the year.

780
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.880
Well, remember he had taken some class like for you

781
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.400
know dads that are divorcing. In the class, they told them,

782
00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:24.679
you know, focus on your family and be as present

783
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:28.199
as you can. His affidavit read like a fairy tale.

784
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:30.320
He claimed to be very active in the girls' lives

785
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:33.960
and was a supportive partner to Nancy, often encouraging her

786
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:36.239
to take a day off. He said that Nancy called

787
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:39.440
him super Dad, but her family clarified that she used

788
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:44.119
the Moniker sarcastically. Nancy's friends disputed Brad's affidavit. He was

789
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:46.599
not an active dad or a caring husband. They had

790
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:50.119
witnessed his indifference to his children and abuse of control

791
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:53.039
over Nancy, We'll be back after a break.

792
00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:03.480
Nancy was well loved by her many friends. Words spread

793
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:08.840
fast about her disappearance, and her friends and community quickly organized. Land, air,

794
00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:13.039
and water searches were initiated. Two thousand fliers with Nancy's

795
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:17.079
smiling face were rapidly plastered over every street, lamp, utility,

796
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:20.920
poll and shop window. White, thirty four five foot nine,

797
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:25.119
one hundred and twenty pounds, hazel eyes, shoulder length, brown hair,

798
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:29.360
wearing a T shirt, shorts, and blue running shoes. By Monday,

799
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.679
the search was in full gear. Clia's husband, Mike, was

800
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:35.840
in charge of the grassroots effort. He handed out highlighted

801
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:38.360
maps to volunteers and told them to search ten to

802
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:41.760
fifteen feet beyond the running trails through the brush and

803
00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:45.880
tall grasses. The area grew thickly, verdant, and lush, making

804
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:49.639
it challenging. Meanwhile, Christa had driven twelve hours through the

805
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:52.880
night and arrived at the Carey police station just before

806
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:56.280
her parents' flight landed. She gave any information she could

807
00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:58.840
think of to help in the search. Then she went

808
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.239
to see Bella and Katie, who were staying with another

809
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:04.800
friend of Nancy's, Hannah Prichard. While Brad helped in the search,

810
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:09.480
the little girls seemed tired, stressed, and manic. Katie, the youngest,

811
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:14.199
called Christa, Mama. Were they identical twins or your identical twins?

812
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:19.679
I know it's heartbreaking, but it's also kind of sweet

813
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:24.519
that they had Christa, Yeah, because it was a comfort

814
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:27.320
to them. Yeah, they looked I think they were very similar.

815
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:31.000
Right soon after, Brad returned for them and tore them

816
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:35.079
away from Christa, upsetting them further. Many people noticed that

817
00:42:35.159 --> 00:42:38.840
he did not seem like a husband worried about his wife. Later,

818
00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:41.719
a press conference was held as the media's attention had

819
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:45.760
been piqued by the case with the Rentz family. In attendance, Gary,

820
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:50.039
Nancy's father, spoke, quote, my wife, Donna, and our family

821
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.440
are very grateful for the search that has been mounted

822
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.239
by the Town of Carrie police. We thank them for

823
00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:57.960
a job that has been well and very sensitively done.

824
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.559
We thanked them for their concern, for their sensitivity, and

825
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:04.559
their support for us as a family. We are overwhelmed

826
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:08.079
by Nancy's friends for their notification of police, for the

827
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:11.360
search effort they've mounted, for their contact with our family,

828
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.199
and for the care they've extended to our grandchildren. We

829
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:18.159
have been here today to help find Nancy. We believe

830
00:43:18.199 --> 00:43:20.480
that she will be brought home soon, and we thank

831
00:43:20.559 --> 00:43:23.559
the community for the support they've given and we ask

832
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:26.320
that they continue in their effort to help find our daughter.

833
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:31.360
Thank you very much. Police Chief Patricia Baysmore answered questions

834
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.480
she believed Nancy was alive, there was no suspect, Brad

835
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:40.039
Cooper was cooperating with the investigation, and she believed Nancy's

836
00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:42.320
disappearance was an isolated incident.

837
00:43:42.760 --> 00:43:45.400
Those things are a little contradictory in my opinion.

838
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:49.000
Yeah, they do seem contradictory. And what evidence would she

839
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:51.840
have to say that she believed Nancy was alive?

840
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.480
I mean, she was just trying to be optimistic, right.

841
00:43:55.199 --> 00:43:58.760
Another press conference was held that evening. Brad attended and

842
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:02.400
made a very brief state quote. Thanks. I don't really

843
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:05.079
have a prepared statement. I just wanted to thank all

844
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.639
of the hundreds of volunteers that came out and are

845
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.679
continuing to come out. If anyone knows anything, I just

846
00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:13.480
want them to contact the police with any information they

847
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:16.760
may have. Again, thank you to everyone that continues to

848
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.840
come out and help. Thanks the police chief. Then said quote,

849
00:44:20.960 --> 00:44:23.760
mister Cooper has been supportive of our work. He has

850
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:26.119
allowed us to look into the couple's home and into

851
00:44:26.119 --> 00:44:29.320
both of their BMWs. We have not named a suspect

852
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:31.960
or a person of interest at this time. We still

853
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:34.840
believe Nancy is alive and we will continue to search

854
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:38.159
for her as a missing person. Brad had welcomed the

855
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:40.679
police into their home without a search warrant, but he

856
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:44.320
had been acting strangely. He had barely talked with Nancy's family.

857
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:46.880
They had treated him like a son and were hurt

858
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:51.079
by his aloof coldness. At seven thirty pm on Monday evening,

859
00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.119
a man walking his dog through a subdivision still under

860
00:44:54.119 --> 00:44:57.960
construction about three miles from the Cooper's home came across

861
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:01.480
a woman's body in a muddy, water filled drainage ditch

862
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.639
behind one of the unfinished houses. He had noticed vultures

863
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.280
circling above and decided to take a closer look. Recent

864
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:12.719
heavy rains had likely erased any footprints or tire tracks

865
00:45:12.760 --> 00:45:15.480
that might have led to the scene. Near the body,

866
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:19.000
investigators found a cigarette butt and two pieces of wire.

867
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.920
Police Chief Bazemore personally delivered the news to the Rents

868
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:27.119
family at their hotel. Although the body hadn't beneficially identified,

869
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:30.639
they knew it was Nancy and they were right. The

870
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:34.880
officer who informed Brad of Nancy's death said, quote, mister

871
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:37.320
Cooper was holding his head and groaning, but I did

872
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:40.480
not see him cry. The groaning seemed a little strange

873
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:44.159
and a little forced. Brad told police that Nancy didn't

874
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:47.239
usually run in that area and said, quote, it just

875
00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:50.679
can't be her. It can't because she was found just

876
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.719
outside of the city limits of Carrie in Wake County.

877
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:56.719
The Carry Police Department handed over the case to Wake

878
00:45:56.800 --> 00:46:00.760
County Sheriff Donnie Harrison, who would lead the investigation, the

879
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.480
same man who was in charge of Michelle Young's murder

880
00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:07.599
investigation in two thousand and six. Michelle and Nancy lived

881
00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:10.920
just seven miles from each other. Wow, that's quite a coincidence.

882
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:15.239
And I think Bella and Cassidy are almost exactly the

883
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:15.840
same age.

884
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:16.280
Wow.

885
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:19.079
Okay. I mentioned that Wake County was going to be

886
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.039
in charge of the investigation, and they thought that at first,

887
00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:25.320
But once Nancy's body was identified and they realized that

888
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:29.199
she was from Carrie, then the Carrie Police Department took

889
00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:29.599
the case.

890
00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:33.000
Gotcha, While they waited for the body to be identified.

891
00:46:33.079 --> 00:46:35.880
Nancy's friends and family gathered at her church for a

892
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:39.760
prayer circle. Brad attended, but stood awkwardly and didn't talk

893
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:43.920
to anyone. Donna Rentz, frustrated by his reticence, approached him.

894
00:46:44.280 --> 00:46:44.639
Quote.

895
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:46.880
I walked over and I put my hand out to him,

896
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:49.599
and he took my hand, and he said nothing. So

897
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:51.480
I put my arms out to give him a hug.

898
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:52.840
He gave me a hug.

899
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:53.719
That was it.

900
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:56.880
He didn't talk. He didn't talk to me. When I

901
00:46:56.920 --> 00:46:59.199
gave him that hug. He put his head down and

902
00:46:59.239 --> 00:47:01.679
I peeked under the brim of his hat. That's when

903
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:04.559
I knew that he killed Nancy. I looked in his eyes,

904
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:06.159
and that's exactly what I felt.

905
00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:10.280
The Rents family seemed like such a kind, loving family,

906
00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:13.920
like they still were trying to support Brad, but they

907
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.800
knew in the back of their heads. I think that, yeah,

908
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.559
he had something to do with her murder.

909
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:22.960
Most likely, Donna knew that Brad held the power in

910
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:26.440
this situation, and she wanted to remain supportive and friendly

911
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:29.639
to him so she could see her granddaughters. When they

912
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:31.840
asked if they could take the girls back to Canada

913
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:35.159
to avoid the glare of the media spotlight. He refused,

914
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:38.400
saying that he needed their support. The next day, the

915
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:41.880
body was confirmed to be Nancy. At another press conference,

916
00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:47.239
Jeff Rentz, Nancy's policeman brother, spoke on behalf of the family, quote,

917
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:50.599
we cannot possibly put into words the thanks to Nancy's

918
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:53.719
many friends and the massive volunteers, both of whom are

919
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:57.519
tireless and tenacious in their efforts. The many sectors of

920
00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:02.039
emergency services and law enforcement in Carrie and surrounding areas,

921
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:05.480
including the Wake County Sheriff's Office the Town of Carrey

922
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:09.639
Police Department, who have displayed dogged determination and the highest

923
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:13.519
degree of professionalism throughout the investigation. We regret that all

924
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:16.159
we can return for your efforts is our gratitude and

925
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:19.039
our thanks. The wheel that is our family is missing

926
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.119
a spoke, and while that wheel is now forever changed,

927
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.639
it's incumbent upon us to adapt, so we continue to spin.

928
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:29.239
Nancy is a mother, a daughter, a sister, and that's

929
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.760
how we'll keep her alive in our hearts. Thank you.

930
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:36.480
Conspicuously missing from the press conference Brad Cooper. Of course,

931
00:48:36.920 --> 00:48:41.840
Nancy's autopsy results weren't made public until late September. Her body,

932
00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:45.079
found in a muddy, water filled ditch after several days,

933
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:49.920
had begun to decompose and required dental records for identification.

934
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:53.559
She was wearing only a sports bra, which had been

935
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:57.679
pushed up above her breasts. One diamond earring remained in place.

936
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:00.679
The other was missing, as was the diamond necklace that

937
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:03.400
she was known to wear daily. Her friend said she

938
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:08.239
never took it off. The autopsy revealed a fractured hyoid bone,

939
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:11.119
three red marks on the back of her neck, and

940
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:16.840
petecheal hemorrhages in her eyes, signs consistent with strangulation. There

941
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:20.679
were no defensive wounds or signs of sexual assault. Her

942
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:25.000
blood alcohol content was point zero six percent. Trace amounts

943
00:49:25.000 --> 00:49:27.840
of caffeine were found in her system, raising the question

944
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.880
had she gone out for her usual morning run. Friends

945
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:35.119
noted that she often had coffee beforehand. There was only

946
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.400
one small piece of onion in her stomach, and her

947
00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:40.599
friend said that she had eaten at the party. I

948
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:43.519
think she'd had like some dip and some cake and

949
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:46.800
some chips, things like that. Could she have vomited after

950
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:51.119
she was strangled? That was possible, the pathologist said, Caffeine

951
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.719
can stand a body for up to twelve hours, so

952
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:57.119
that doesn't mean that Nancy ran on Saturday morning. No

953
00:49:57.159 --> 00:49:59.719
one at the party had seen her drink caffeine, although

954
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.800
early earlier that day she'd gone to the pool with

955
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:06.199
friends and they recalled her drinking a diet coke. Pathologist

956
00:50:06.280 --> 00:50:09.519
doctor Michael Pappez wrote in the report quote, based on

957
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:12.920
the history and the autopsy findings, it is my opinion

958
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:17.239
that she died as a result of external causes homicidal violence,

959
00:50:17.480 --> 00:50:22.880
most likely asphyxia by strangulation. After the autopsy results were released,

960
00:50:23.199 --> 00:50:26.800
Carrie Police Chief Pat Baisemore said, quote, outside her family,

961
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.400
no group is more committed to resolving Nancy's murder than

962
00:50:30.440 --> 00:50:33.800
they carry Police department, and it's been since the day

963
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:37.599
she disappeared. And Gary Wrenz, Nancy's father, said, quote, the

964
00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:40.519
journey to the truth and justice can be long and arduous.

965
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:45.039
Today's news Mark's point that is particularly poignant and painful,

966
00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:48.920
but necessary to further the evidentiary process leading to a

967
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:52.800
conviction of the person or persons responsible for Nancy's murder.

968
00:50:53.519 --> 00:50:56.199
In March two thousand and eight, Nancy had hired attorney

969
00:50:56.239 --> 00:51:00.320
Alice Stubbs to facilitate herdivores from Brad Cooper. With seventh thousand,

970
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:03.840
five hundred dollars borrowed from her parents, sister, and friends.

971
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.679
She had planned to return to her native Canada and

972
00:51:06.679 --> 00:51:10.440
live with Christa and her husband in Toronto. After Nancy's death,

973
00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:12.880
Gary Wrenz called Alice to ask her to help their

974
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:16.440
family with custody of his granddaughters. It was well known

975
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:19.039
among Nancy's friends and family that Bread was not equipped

976
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.039
to handle the girls on his own. He had a

977
00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:25.320
history of depression, anxiety, and had allegedly attempted suicide at

978
00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:28.039
least once. A neighbor had stopped by the Cooper's home

979
00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:31.480
to check on the girls and found them undressed, hungry,

980
00:51:31.639 --> 00:51:36.199
and the house in complete disarray. In their brief requesting custody,

981
00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.519
the Renses alleged that Brad had killed Nancy and had

982
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:43.400
engaged in a pattern of emotional abuse directed towards Nancy

983
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:46.840
and the children. He frequently yelled at Nancy Cooper and

984
00:51:46.880 --> 00:51:50.000
belittled her in the presence of her minor children. They

985
00:51:50.039 --> 00:51:52.840
also alleged that he had been unfaithful in his marriage

986
00:51:52.840 --> 00:51:56.079
to Nancy. He also engaged in financial abuse with holding

987
00:51:56.119 --> 00:51:59.639
money from Nancy for essensial things like groceries and gas,

988
00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:02.840
using her to borrow money from her family members. She

989
00:52:03.000 --> 00:52:05.679
was dependent on Brad because of the green card holder,

990
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:08.360
she wasn't able to get a job. He'd hidden their

991
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.760
passports so they couldn't leave and returned to Canada. A

992
00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:15.480
judge awarded temporary emergency custody to Donna and Gary Wrntz

993
00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:18.000
and allowed them to take Bella and Katie back to

994
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:21.159
Canada with them. It was one small win for them,

995
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:25.239
Donna said, quote. This decision to seek custody was not

996
00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:28.480
made with malice or any intent other than to support

997
00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:29.119
the children.

998
00:52:29.320 --> 00:52:31.920
It's a little surprising that they let them take the

999
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:32.960
kids out of the country.

1000
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:35.559
I was a little surprised too. I think they did

1001
00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:38.480
a great job stating their case, and they had it

1002
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:41.440
backed up with a lot of support from Nancy's friends

1003
00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:44.360
who had been eyewitnesses to some of their fighting and

1004
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:47.559
the abuse. When police first spoke with Brad Cooper and

1005
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.280
July twelve, the day that Nancy went missing, they noted

1006
00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:54.559
several concerning observations. He had small red marks or scratches

1007
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:56.679
on the left side and back of his neck, and

1008
00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:59.119
a band aid on the middle finger of his left hand.

1009
00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:02.599
Although had spent about nine hours with officers over the

1010
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:06.039
next few days, he refused to provide a formal statement,

1011
00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:09.519
and he never went to the police station. When a

1012
00:53:09.559 --> 00:53:12.239
cent tracking dog was sent to the Cooper home, Brad

1013
00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:15.199
gave officers one of Nancy's running shoes, but the dog

1014
00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:17.480
failed to pick up a scent and instead tried to

1015
00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:21.599
return inside the house. Brad had referred to two pairs

1016
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:24.639
of running shoes near the garage. Is Nancy's old pair

1017
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:28.840
and new pair, raising the question which pair had Nancy

1018
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:33.119
worn on her run? Are scent dogs and cadaver dogs

1019
00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:34.199
two different.

1020
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:35.280
Dogs, I believe so?

1021
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.280
Yeah, So I am curious why they didn't have a

1022
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:40.119
cadaver dog go into the house.

1023
00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:42.800
Oh, to see if she had been killed in the

1024
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:44.679
house potentially, okay, Yeah.

1025
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:47.199
And also the shoes to me is kind of is

1026
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:49.800
a red flag for sure. Well, yeah, if you're a runner,

1027
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:52.320
and you know she runs all the time, she runs

1028
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:55.559
I think long distances, So you're gonna have more than

1029
00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:58.440
one pair of shoes, right, But which she have had

1030
00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:01.519
more than two pair of running shoes at the back door?

1031
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.239
Yeah, I wouldn't think so.

1032
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:05.800
Right, and especially because he's that those are her old ones,

1033
00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:08.760
those are her new ones. Yeah. Brad told investigators that

1034
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.960
after Nancy discovered his affair, she retaliated by spending forty

1035
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:16.679
thousand dollars. He claimed that she blew ten thousand dollars

1036
00:54:16.719 --> 00:54:19.119
on a large painting of a bear that now hung

1037
00:54:19.159 --> 00:54:22.320
in their living room. In truth, Nancy had spent a

1038
00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:25.159
portion of a twenty thousand dollars gift from her parents

1039
00:54:25.199 --> 00:54:27.760
to buy the painting and applied the rest of the

1040
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:31.239
gift towards paying off debt. Her parents were known for

1041
00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:35.199
being financially generous with her children. Brad described Nancy as

1042
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:38.360
a shopaholic who could easily spend three thousand dollars in

1043
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:41.519
a single day, which he said justified the three hundred

1044
00:54:41.559 --> 00:54:44.519
dollars a week allowane that he gave her. He also

1045
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:47.599
claimed that Nancy had a drinking problem and had urged

1046
00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:51.320
her to attend Alcoholics Anonymous and commit to thirty days

1047
00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:55.119
without alcohol. I didn't hear anyone else mention a problem

1048
00:54:55.480 --> 00:54:59.199
with alcohol for Nancy. The day after Nancy's body was found,

1049
00:54:59.239 --> 00:55:01.360
carry police for turned to the Cooper home with a

1050
00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:04.360
consent to search form. Brad refused to sign it and

1051
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:09.360
requested a lawyer. In response, investigators swiftly obtained a search warrant.

1052
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:13.920
They searched the house, both vehicles, and Brad himself. Detectives

1053
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:16.719
canvassed the neighborhood, but no one had seen Nancy out

1054
00:55:16.800 --> 00:55:20.119
running that Saturday morning, not near her home or along

1055
00:55:20.199 --> 00:55:23.039
the busy trail system where she often jogged. And you

1056
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:24.960
would think of Saturday morning, there would be a lot

1057
00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:28.440
of people out there jogging. Witnesses at the barbecue the

1058
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:32.719
night before Nancy's disappearance also shared troubling details. Nancy had

1059
00:55:32.760 --> 00:55:36.639
been relaxed, drinking wine and laughing with friends. At one point,

1060
00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:41.159
Brad grew visibly frustrated while trying to soothe their younger daughter, Katie.

1061
00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:44.360
What can I do, he asked. Nancy shot back, quote,

1062
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:46.559
be a dad and figure it out. This is how

1063
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:49.519
you can tell you're never around her. Friends laughed at

1064
00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:53.760
her quip, but may have cut Brad deeper than anyone realized.

1065
00:55:54.440 --> 00:55:58.679
The kids are almost two and four. Can you remember

1066
00:55:58.719 --> 00:55:59.559
back to those days?

1067
00:56:00.039 --> 00:56:02.199
Those were those are tough times, Those were tough times.

1068
00:56:02.360 --> 00:56:05.199
Yeah, And remember being at a party or gathering or

1069
00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:07.840
whatever it was, and you know, you would tag team

1070
00:56:07.840 --> 00:56:08.280
each other.

1071
00:56:08.599 --> 00:56:10.000
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

1072
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:12.079
But to embarrass I do feel a little bit of

1073
00:56:12.119 --> 00:56:15.000
empathy for Brad here because to say that in front

1074
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.880
of their group of friends was pretty cutting.

1075
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:20.000
A little bit. Yeah, So they both of the kids

1076
00:56:20.039 --> 00:56:22.480
were there at that time, there one of them. He

1077
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:24.280
was trying to soothe one of them.

1078
00:56:24.440 --> 00:56:26.559
And I think, you know, she was probably fussy. It

1079
00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:29.840
sounds like it was almost, you know, bedtime. And it's

1080
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:32.119
not that I don't think he knew what to do.

1081
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:34.559
He was probably more like, can you take her for

1082
00:56:34.599 --> 00:56:37.760
a minute. Yeah, but you know, she had told him,

1083
00:56:37.960 --> 00:56:40.679
you're on daddy duty tonight. Yeah, you're going to handle

1084
00:56:40.719 --> 00:56:41.480
the kids. Yeah.

1085
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:43.239
It does seem a little harsh, but at the same time,

1086
00:56:43.639 --> 00:56:47.440
I can imagine she was probably frustrated just with him

1087
00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:50.400
not being a very active parent over the you know

1088
00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:53.000
the course. At the last however, many years.

1089
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:55.559
Police noted that both the Cooper home and garage had

1090
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:59.000
recently been cleaned. Neighbors remarked that the garage was usually

1091
00:56:59.039 --> 00:57:01.800
so cluttered that the Coopers couldn't park their cars in it.

1092
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:05.039
Brad told officers he had cleaned the house that morning,

1093
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:09.239
an uncharacteristic move to put it mildly. Still, police found

1094
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:13.320
the home somewhat chaotic. Overall, only specific areas appeared to

1095
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:14.159
have been cleaned.

1096
00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:16.239
That sounds a little suspicious.

1097
00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:17.760
Yeah, And one of these areas that was cleaned was

1098
00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:21.880
the trunk of Brad's BMW, which had been freshly vacuumed. Oddly,

1099
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.920
the rest of the vehicle looked untouched, messian lived in

1100
00:57:24.960 --> 00:57:27.559
as you might expect from a man with two young children.

1101
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.679
Brad explained that he had spilled gasoline in the trunk

1102
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:34.159
and cleaned it out to remove the smell, but officers

1103
00:57:34.280 --> 00:57:36.880
didn't detect any odor of gas, and you would think

1104
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:38.960
that would get it really hard to get that out.

1105
00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:43.039
His vehicle was thoroughly searched, and investigators removed the trunkliner

1106
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:46.280
and steat covers for further analysis. No blood was found

1107
00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:50.199
in the home or either of the Cooper's vehicles. Investigators

1108
00:57:50.199 --> 00:57:53.519
collected thirty three items from the Cooper residents. These included

1109
00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:55.760
clothing such as a green dress I think that was

1110
00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:58.519
the dress that Nancy was wearing the night of the party.

1111
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.960
A black sports brought, a red shirt, gray tennis shoes,

1112
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:04.840
high heels, and flip flops, as well as household items

1113
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.840
like a pillow and bed linens from the home office.

1114
00:58:08.119 --> 00:58:11.880
Police seized documents, two cameras, and three computers. A few

1115
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:15.960
items stood out as especially odd. A brownish greened vegetable

1116
00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:19.599
material found in Brad's two thousand and one BMW, along

1117
00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:23.199
with grass, and a green plastic fragment in what appeared

1118
00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:26.679
to be a broken pink fingernail. Also found inside the

1119
00:58:26.719 --> 00:58:29.639
house was Nancy's necklace, the one that people said she

1120
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:33.840
never off. On July twenty first, police searched Brad's office

1121
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:36.920
at work. Several computers and storage devices were taken for

1122
00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:42.039
forensic analysis. Brad quickly retained two local attorneys, Howard Kurtz

1123
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:45.239
and Seth Blum. He left the family home and went

1124
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:48.400
to stay with a family friend, Scott Hider, who, in

1125
00:58:48.800 --> 00:58:52.360
an ironic twist, was the ex husband of Heather Mature,

1126
00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:55.559
the woman who Brad had on a four mouth. That

1127
00:58:55.679 --> 00:59:00.079
is ironic. That's where we are going to stop for today.

1128
00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:03.880
I have some questions for you before we go. Okay,

1129
00:59:03.880 --> 00:59:08.079
did their move to North Carolina seem rushed? And did

1130
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:10.920
Brad want Nancy away from her family so he could

1131
00:59:10.920 --> 00:59:11.840
better control her?

1132
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:16.079
Well, it seemed very much like he was very controlling

1133
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:18.639
based on the stories that we've heard, Like you said,

1134
00:59:19.159 --> 00:59:21.440
that was maybe only one side of the story, but

1135
00:59:21.719 --> 00:59:25.000
just based on all of that, like his controlling her

1136
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:27.960
access to money and all those type of things, it

1137
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:30.840
seems like he seems like the kind of guy who

1138
00:59:31.239 --> 00:59:33.880
wanted that level of control, and it probably would have

1139
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:37.199
been something that he tried to get her away from

1140
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:38.559
her family as soon as he could.

1141
00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:41.679
I think the job opportunity was a good opportunity though,

1142
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:44.599
so you know, maybe they just moved really just for

1143
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:46.719
the job, and it was a bonus that her family

1144
00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:49.760
was so far away because they were in Edmonton, and

1145
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:53.400
that's on the other side of Canada, right, So it's like,

1146
00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:57.280
I can't remember, how like forty hours to drive. Oh yeah,

1147
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:58.320
it's super long drive.

1148
00:59:58.440 --> 00:59:58.960
Yeah.

1149
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:00.840
Do you believe that Nancy out for a jog on

1150
01:00:00.880 --> 01:00:01.639
Saturday morning?

1151
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:04.079
It doesn't seem like it to me, it, you know,

1152
01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:07.079
obviously I'll wait to hear more of the evidence, but yeah,

1153
01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:10.039
my initial reaction was that they probably came back from

1154
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:13.360
the party. They probably had a fight. He probably strangled

1155
01:00:13.400 --> 01:00:16.440
her and took her body out there in the in

1156
01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:17.519
the cover of darkness.

1157
01:00:17.880 --> 01:00:20.639
Did I forget to say that there was no evidence

1158
01:00:20.719 --> 01:00:25.199
of rape or any trauma to her genital region. I

1159
01:00:25.239 --> 01:00:28.039
don't think you said that now, Okay, So yeah, just

1160
01:00:28.159 --> 01:00:30.519
there was no semen. That doesn't mean that she couldn't

1161
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:33.719
have been raped, but it seemed like she was naked

1162
01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:34.760
except for the sports bra.

1163
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:37.480
Well, that makes it sound like someone tried to stage

1164
01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:40.239
it to look like a sexual assault when it really wasn't.

1165
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:42.800
I was just going to ask you where were Nancy's clothes?

1166
01:00:43.039 --> 01:00:44.400
Well, yeah, I was going to ask that. I was

1167
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:47.079
going to ask you that because I was curious about

1168
01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:49.639
that as well. So they never found and never found

1169
01:00:49.639 --> 01:00:50.360
any clothing.

1170
01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:53.480
No, and so you've never put a sports bra on,

1171
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:57.039
but sports bras are really hard to get on, even

1172
01:00:57.079 --> 01:00:59.639
if you're thin. You know, they're supposed to be tight

1173
01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:02.320
and fitting and kind of bind your breast. I'm not

1174
01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:04.719
sure what kind she had, but I'm guessing she probably

1175
01:01:04.760 --> 01:01:06.880
had like you know, the ones that you just kind

1176
01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:09.559
of pull them over your head, and it almost seems

1177
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:12.480
like because they it was like pushed up like he

1178
01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:15.079
was like, oh my gosh. You know, possibly, if Brad

1179
01:01:15.159 --> 01:01:17.199
did murder her and was trying to make it look

1180
01:01:17.239 --> 01:01:19.159
like she went out for a jog, that he you know,

1181
01:01:19.239 --> 01:01:21.440
took her dress off that she was wearing and then

1182
01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:24.000
tried to put the sports bar on her and couldn't

1183
01:01:24.199 --> 01:01:25.880
you know, get it down all the way?

1184
01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:27.119
Okay, Yeah, that could.

1185
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:30.440
Be Nancy's cause of death was strangulation. And if she

1186
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:33.559
was picked up by some stranger, some murderer in a van,

1187
01:01:33.960 --> 01:01:36.559
would they have strangled her? Would they have a weapon

1188
01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:38.760
with them? That's something that I was wondering about.

1189
01:01:39.000 --> 01:01:41.519
It's hard to say, but the fact that her clothing

1190
01:01:41.800 --> 01:01:45.440
was never found like that makes me think that she

1191
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:48.840
was killed her in her home. Because if you abducted

1192
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:51.480
somebody running by the side of the road and killed them,

1193
01:01:51.519 --> 01:01:53.760
you're not going to take their clothes with you, right,

1194
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:54.920
That doesn't make any sense.

1195
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:57.760
So well, you're the clothes. She could have fibers on

1196
01:01:57.840 --> 01:01:58.800
them and things like that.

1197
01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:01.559
Yeah, I suppose. It just doesn't seem very likely that

1198
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:05.039
you would, you know, be that meticulous about it if

1199
01:02:05.119 --> 01:02:05.920
that was the case.

1200
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:08.559
Yeah, And these trails, I think we're pretty busy. Depending

1201
01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:11.679
on where she was, I think that, you know, someone

1202
01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:14.199
would have seen her being pushed into a van or whatever.

1203
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:17.119
And this being in two thousand and eight, there weren't

1204
01:02:17.159 --> 01:02:20.840
like doorbell cameras on every house at that point, so

1205
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:23.760
there was no you know, video surveillance evidence.

1206
01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.440
Nancy didn't really have defensive wounds. I think that she

1207
01:02:27.840 --> 01:02:30.599
was in good shape. She was a fighter. I think

1208
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:33.320
that she would have had defensive wounds. There was something

1209
01:02:33.400 --> 01:02:36.800
underneath her fingernails, but because she had been immersed in water,

1210
01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:38.840
it was unable to be identified.

1211
01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:42.559
Okay, didn't you say something about a pink fingernail being

1212
01:02:42.639 --> 01:02:44.199
found somewhere.

1213
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:46.079
In his car That wasn't hers?

1214
01:02:46.199 --> 01:02:47.440
But it was a fingernail.

1215
01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:49.480
That's all I know. I don't know anything more about that.

1216
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:50.000
Okay.

1217
01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:53.800
If Nancy and Brad weren't really getting along, they still

1218
01:02:53.840 --> 01:02:56.440
were doing things together. Like they went to the party

1219
01:02:56.440 --> 01:03:00.519
at the neighbor's house the night of Nancy's death, like this.

1220
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:03.159
The next night, they had some friends that were supposed

1221
01:03:03.159 --> 01:03:05.760
to come over for a game night. So that was

1222
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:06.800
a little strange to me.

1223
01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:08.559
Yeah, that is a little weird. I would think once

1224
01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:11.320
you've decided you're getting a divorce, you would kind of

1225
01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:15.360
live separate lives in some ways, you know, only working

1226
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:18.679
together for the kids or things like that. But otherwise, Yeah,

1227
01:03:18.960 --> 01:03:20.840
why would you want to spend time together?

1228
01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:25.519
So Nancy's BAC was point zero six. Point zero eight

1229
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:28.199
is the point when you're not supposed to operate a

1230
01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:31.639
votor vehicle. Yeah, so what does that tell you?

1231
01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:34.840
Well, that tells me that she was killed, not a

1232
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:38.039
super long time after the party, like her body had,

1233
01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:41.280
you know, maybe metabolized a little bit of the alcoholic system.

1234
01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:43.840
But not much of it, right, And would she have

1235
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:47.719
gone running the next morning if her alcohol no BAC

1236
01:03:47.880 --> 01:03:48.320
was still.

1237
01:03:48.119 --> 01:03:50.079
Point zero sell, definitely not.

1238
01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:53.039
The last thing I want to mention is that Nancy

1239
01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:57.320
was given this three hundred dollars a week allowance that

1240
01:03:57.400 --> 01:04:00.159
was in two thousand and eight, adjusted for inflation in

1241
01:04:00.199 --> 01:04:03.360
twenty twenty five, that's about four hundred and fifty dollars

1242
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:06.400
a week. We've been married a long time and we've

1243
01:04:06.400 --> 01:04:08.840
had different, i don't know how to say it, like

1244
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:12.199
different budgets, and I think at one point we did

1245
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:15.360
try like some sort of envelope system where we were like, well,

1246
01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:17.400
this is what we're going to spend and four hundred

1247
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:19.960
and fifty dollars. Like I am not trying to defend Brad,

1248
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:23.360
don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure like putting

1249
01:04:23.400 --> 01:04:26.360
the accounts in his name and taking away her credit

1250
01:04:26.440 --> 01:04:29.119
cards definitely is abusive.

1251
01:04:28.679 --> 01:04:30.639
Right, not cool? The four hundred and fifty dollars.

1252
01:04:30.480 --> 01:04:33.719
A week Small's I feel like that's okay amount like

1253
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:37.000
today because I think groceries have definitely skyrocketed. I don't

1254
01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:39.440
even want to tell people how much we spent on groceries.

1255
01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:40.239
It's ridiculous.

1256
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:42.840
So I guess it depends on what that money was for.

1257
01:04:42.920 --> 01:04:44.840
But if it was just for like four trees and

1258
01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:46.159
kind of regular.

1259
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:49.400
Yeah, yeah, I don't think she had to pay any bills.

1260
01:04:49.400 --> 01:04:51.920
He was paying the bills, so yeah, you know, I

1261
01:04:52.119 --> 01:04:54.679
seem that bad. I mean, yeah, but she is a

1262
01:04:54.679 --> 01:04:57.760
grown woman and she should have access to a bank account.

1263
01:04:57.840 --> 01:05:00.840
But if you know, if you have forty thousand dollars

1264
01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:03.239
of credit card debt that you're trying to whittle down,

1265
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:05.760
I mean, you definitely do have to rain in your spending.

1266
01:05:05.880 --> 01:05:09.239
Yeah, for sure. And sometimes when you say like an allowance,

1267
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:13.639
it sounds like, okay, here, I'm it sounds degrading. Yeah,

1268
01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:15.599
it sounds like I'm in control and I'm letting you

1269
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:18.239
spend this amount of money. But you know, we don't

1270
01:05:18.280 --> 01:05:20.480
know for sure if it was if that was the situation,

1271
01:05:20.599 --> 01:05:22.559
or if it was just sort of like their budget, right.

1272
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:24.599
I think it was more of a control issue, so

1273
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:26.519
it was more I think he was definitely trying to

1274
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:29.599
limit her spending. I'm not sure if he was trying

1275
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:31.719
to limit his own spending as well.

1276
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:33.679
Yeah, okay, we'll put.

1277
01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:35.679
A pin in it and we'll come back next time.

1278
01:05:35.719 --> 01:05:38.159
A right, There's still a lot to go in this case.

1279
01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:46.559
I'm looking forward to hearing how this plays out.

1280
01:05:47.320 --> 01:05:50.000
I think about this all the time because it happens

1281
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.360
a lot in all the cases that we do. But

1282
01:05:52.400 --> 01:05:55.000
I would be mortified if the police had to take

1283
01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:59.000
my phone and look through my Google searches, look through

1284
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:01.880
my you know, text messages.

1285
01:06:01.679 --> 01:06:03.320
And I think most of us would be.

1286
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:05.719
I'm just wondering, what are some of the We're all

1287
01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:09.440
friends here, no one's judging. It's a safe place, right,

1288
01:06:09.719 --> 01:06:12.599
what are some of the most embarrassing things that you've googled?

1289
01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:17.760
You can do it, you can answer, Come on.

1290
01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:20.920
I mean, most of my searches on Google are really

1291
01:06:21.400 --> 01:06:24.239
dumb and mundane things. There are things like we're having

1292
01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:27.159
a conversation about something and I'm like, oh, I wonder

1293
01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:28.440
about that. I wonder I.

1294
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:30.480
Wonder if I can prove my my wife.

1295
01:06:30.519 --> 01:06:30.760
Wrong.

1296
01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:34.400
Yeah, most it's most it's about proving your Yeah, for sure,

1297
01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:35.199
is there a.

1298
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:38.400
Wrong way to park? Because they always make fun of

1299
01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:39.840
you for being a mad parker.

1300
01:06:39.960 --> 01:06:41.360
I am not a good parker.

1301
01:06:41.519 --> 01:06:45.159
You're a fine parker. But anyway, I was googling that.

1302
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:48.119
I was googling, like, what are like dumb things to google?

1303
01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:51.039
And I found a list from Men's Health magazine.

1304
01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:53.400
But you were googling dumb things to google?

1305
01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:57.119
Yeah, well, you know, I think most our most embarrassing

1306
01:06:57.159 --> 01:06:59.719
searches are like, what is this bump on my body?

1307
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:00.639
You know what I mean?

1308
01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:04.079
I know your most embarrassing searches are searching for your

1309
01:07:04.400 --> 01:07:06.519
the guy that you had a crush on in high school?

1310
01:07:06.559 --> 01:07:10.159
Thank you? So you know if you say his name, like,

1311
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:12.480
I will walk out of here and never podcast again.

1312
01:07:13.039 --> 01:07:14.079
So good call on.

1313
01:07:15.079 --> 01:07:16.719
I'm sure he's probably listening.

1314
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:20.480
He's probably not over me either, exactly. So give me

1315
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:22.559
a state and I'll give you some of the embarrassing

1316
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:24.920
Google search ice state.

1317
01:07:25.119 --> 01:07:26.679
Well, Well, let's start with Michigan.

1318
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:33.920
Okay, Michigan Bigfoot evidence, pyramid scheme, Little Caesar's lou Piga

1319
01:07:34.320 --> 01:07:35.519
Mambo number five.

1320
01:07:36.400 --> 01:07:40.920
Okay, that's a really odd assortment of things. But yeah, I.

1321
01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:43.400
Know we have a lot of listeners from Texas. So

1322
01:07:44.000 --> 01:07:52.800
Matthew McConaughey, Oh no, sorry, Matthew McConaughey quotes Jade Helm, Pimp, Juice, Extends, Pills,

1323
01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:59.480
hot Dog, Pizza, Crust, CCS, Pizza Buffet, Skunkcare, porn is

1324
01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:04.840
w we reel and contract killing. Oh my, okay, utah,

1325
01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:05.840
just because that's right next the.

1326
01:08:05.920 --> 01:08:07.800
Way, I really want to know what hot Dog pizza

1327
01:08:07.880 --> 01:08:08.440
trust is.

1328
01:08:08.599 --> 01:08:10.599
Well, you're going to have to google. I'm going to

1329
01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:17.359
video game addiction, Unicorn pictures, Razor, Scooter, Mustache, Dilbert, traditional marriage,

1330
01:08:17.800 --> 01:08:20.039
bronnis b R O N I E S.

1331
01:08:20.119 --> 01:08:21.000
And that was utah.

1332
01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:25.720
Wow, yeah, these are just really silly. Yeah, Minnesota Frisbee Golf,

1333
01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:28.479
Fantasy Golf, hot caral.

1334
01:08:28.560 --> 01:08:32.159
Hot Carl. I'm sure we're gonna have a lot of

1335
01:08:32.199 --> 01:08:35.760
listeners sending us notes telling us what all these things are, like,

1336
01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:37.600
oh yeah, hot Carl, that's this.

1337
01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:43.079
Is, you know, Georgia herpies, wors Sawyer meth recipe. Here

1338
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:47.479
comes honey Boo boo athletes foot well the South ever Rise.

1339
01:08:48.960 --> 01:08:51.840
Meth recipe. That's too much like you know, well where

1340
01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:54.760
are you going to find your recipe for meth? Their Internet?

1341
01:08:54.840 --> 01:09:03.960
Delaware is just Newark Girls, Arkansas Lunchables Hotel, California, Chords Hotel, California, Lyrics,

1342
01:09:04.319 --> 01:09:11.479
nineteen Kids Encounting Toddlers and Tiars and Josh Duggar. Arizona

1343
01:09:11.640 --> 01:09:20.600
is Obama American North Carolina. Where is the Internet? Where

1344
01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:27.000
the Nicholas Sparks, New York, Donald Trump, Hugh Grant, Magic Lessons,

1345
01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:32.600
shake Weight, Snuggle Sutra, Amidia and Gweth.

1346
01:09:32.279 --> 01:09:36.760
Pultrow, Chlamydia and Gwyneth Paltrow.

1347
01:09:38.079 --> 01:09:43.279
Separate, oh New Jersey, Ashley Madison, Pubic Lies, Jonas Brother

1348
01:09:43.520 --> 01:09:48.319
Lyrics and Frosted Tips. I guess we'll put this in

1349
01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:51.720
our I think it's arbitrary. It's not like these are

1350
01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:55.479
the Yeah, it's not like the most searched thing. But

1351
01:09:55.840 --> 01:10:00.319
a couple of few states here have have lunchables, so.

1352
01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:03.760
Are very popular in a lot of places.

1353
01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:06.079
I think we used to be a long time ago.

1354
01:10:06.239 --> 01:10:08.960
But it sounds like people people want them or they

1355
01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:10.000
want to know more about them.

1356
01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:13.199
Well, last thing before we go, I haven't given you

1357
01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:17.199
much time to talk about sports lately. And talk about sports, no,

1358
01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:19.920
maybe you need to talk about it publicly and get

1359
01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:22.520
some support. Maybe there's a support group for you to

1360
01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:24.600
spread to the Tiger fans, have it by the time

1361
01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:27.239
this actually this is going to release on Monday. So

1362
01:10:27.720 --> 01:10:29.760
how big is They're losing streak right now?

1363
01:10:29.760 --> 01:10:31.600
They've lost I think they've lost nine out of the

1364
01:10:31.640 --> 01:10:35.079
last ten games. And they were they were they had

1365
01:10:35.079 --> 01:10:36.359
the best record in baseball.

1366
01:10:36.560 --> 01:10:38.439
I know, you told me every five minutes pretty much.

1367
01:10:38.560 --> 01:10:40.319
I know, and like all of a sudden, it just

1368
01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:43.159
they went from being the best team in baseball to

1369
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:46.680
being a terrible team like overnight, which you know, losing

1370
01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:48.520
streaks happen. It's to be expected.

1371
01:10:48.560 --> 01:10:52.479
But it's well thoughts bad, well thoughts to all the

1372
01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:56.079
Detroit Tigers fans. I'm sure they will. I just have

1373
01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:58.159
a little bit of a slump just because they're you know,

1374
01:10:58.279 --> 01:11:00.680
kind of refocusing and getting their energy back.

1375
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:01.359
Yes, I'm sure.

1376
01:11:01.560 --> 01:11:03.359
Have you watched that Netflix show I told you about,

1377
01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:05.520
the one about the I think it's about the quarterback

1378
01:11:05.640 --> 01:11:07.880
or no, I have not had the time. Well maybe

1379
01:11:07.920 --> 01:11:09.479
over vacation. Yeah, you can watch it.

1380
01:11:09.560 --> 01:11:11.159
We could all watch it together as a family.

1381
01:11:11.600 --> 01:11:14.680
They're gonna say collectively, the Love Mary Kill family.

1382
01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:17.359
Oh yeah, we could all it's about the Lions, right.

1383
01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:20.479
I think it's called Quarterback, so I don't know if

1384
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:22.399
it's just about I assume it's about the whole team.

1385
01:11:22.399 --> 01:11:25.479
I don't know. I haven't watched it. Okay, all right,

1386
01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:27.800
well that's all we have for today. If you would

1387
01:11:27.880 --> 01:11:30.600
like to listen to the conclusion of this episode, please

1388
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:34.239
join us on Patreon. Go to patreon dot com slash

1389
01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:37.760
Love Mary Kill. For five dollars a month. You got

1390
01:11:37.800 --> 01:11:41.520
early ad free access and a monthly bonus episode.

1391
01:11:41.760 --> 01:11:43.720
And while we would love for you to join our

1392
01:11:43.760 --> 01:11:47.600
Patreon program and stay with us forever and ever, if

1393
01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:50.000
you just want to hear part two of this episode,

1394
01:11:50.039 --> 01:11:53.000
we're going to try something new. Patreon has now made

1395
01:11:53.000 --> 01:11:56.119
it possible for us to just offer a single episode

1396
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:58.560
and have you just pay for that episode. So we're

1397
01:11:58.560 --> 01:12:00.520
going to put part two up. We're going to make

1398
01:12:00.520 --> 01:12:02.439
it three dollars. If you want to listen to part

1399
01:12:02.479 --> 01:12:05.479
two without joining our patron just go to patreon dot

1400
01:12:05.479 --> 01:12:08.199
com slash Love Mary Kill and you'll see the episode

1401
01:12:08.199 --> 01:12:09.760
there and the pricing.

1402
01:12:09.439 --> 01:12:11.600
And you'll just be able to buy one episode at

1403
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:12.039
a time.

1404
01:12:12.319 --> 01:12:14.960
That is my understanding. We're going to give it a try, right,

1405
01:12:15.000 --> 01:12:16.479
we'll see how it works out well.

1406
01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:19.159
Thank you, as always for your support and for hanging

1407
01:12:19.159 --> 01:12:22.319
out with us and listening. We appreciate it so much.

1408
01:12:22.600 --> 01:12:26.159
Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find us on social media,

1409
01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:29.079
or send us an email at Lovemrykill at gmail dot com.

1410
01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:32.239
And if you're a YouTube person, please subscribe to our

1411
01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:36.640
YouTube channel. Rich is putting together some awesome videos over there.

1412
01:12:36.920 --> 01:12:39.399
Awesome maybe overstating it a little bit, but I am

1413
01:12:39.439 --> 01:12:41.159
putting together some videos over there.

1414
01:12:41.239 --> 01:12:43.000
Even if you don't listen to us over there, if

1415
01:12:43.000 --> 01:12:44.840
you could subscribe, it would really help us out. We

1416
01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:47.720
would appreciate it a ton, and as always, thank you

1417
01:12:47.800 --> 01:12:50.439
so much for all your encouragement and your support and

1418
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:54.279
your messages on Spotify. We both really love hearing what

1419
01:12:54.319 --> 01:12:56.279
you guys think about the cases that we cover. We

1420
01:12:56.319 --> 01:12:57.479
appreciate it so much.

1421
01:12:57.520 --> 01:12:59.880
We do, and thanks so much Tina from Dexter for

1422
01:13:00.039 --> 01:13:01.159
recommending this case.

1423
01:13:03.159 --> 01:13:05.640
Until next time, don't kill your eyes and don't kill

1424
01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:06.039
your wife.