Aug. 4, 2025

Nancy and Brad Cooper - Part 2

Nancy and Brad Cooper - Part 2
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In July 2008, in the quiet suburb of Cary, North Carolina, Nancy and Brad Cooper appeared to have it all: two beautiful daughters, a picture-perfect life, and a circle of close-knit friends. But behind closed doors, their marriage was unraveling. When Nancy vanished after a routine morning run, the investigation revealed cracks in their carefully constructed world—and left a trail of questions that still linger.

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Today's snack: White Chocolate Chip Cherry Oatmeal Cookies

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Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. If there's one thing

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we've learned in over twenty years of marriage, it's that.

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Some days you'll feel like killing your wife.

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In some days you'll feel like killing your husband.

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Welcome to love, Mary kill, Hey Rich, Hey Tina, how

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are you? I'm going shithouse? How are you going?

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That is your new favorite phrase, isn't it my new catchphrase?

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So we're leaving for vacation, even though we are already

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back for vacation. If you're listening to this, but you

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had a great time, Yeah, you're tying up a lot

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of loose ends. So am I. Yeah, yeah, it's a

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little stressful.

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It is a little bit, but I'm looking forward to vacation.

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Yeah, definitely.

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So last episode, you asked me where I was on

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the scale of wanting to kill your spouse, and I

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forgot to ask you. So I wanted to bring it

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up because I was. I started thinking about it. I

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was like, wow, I didn't ask, so I have no idea.

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Well, and you know that's why you're always on the bubble.

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That's why you're always in trouble because you forget that

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I have feelings.

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I know.

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You're always great, you're always at the below zero like

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negative to the you're safe, you're well meaning, like that's

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how little I want you to.

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D Okay, that's good, I'll take it.

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I'm still good on the marriage meter.

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Yes, nothing has changed since we spoke yesterday.

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Even if I was like, you know, a ninety nine

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out of one hundred, you're just a docile human being.

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I don't think you would ever hurt her.

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Of course not.

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It is hot as heck here in Michigan today. It's

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about as hot as it can possibly get hair because

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it's ninety five with a heat index. It's one oh five.

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And we should be complaining because we're inside our air

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conditioned house.

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The air condition can only do so much, and I

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have been sticky all afternoon. It's no surprise that we

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live really close to Hell.

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Oh we do. We live close to Hell, Michigan, which

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is an actual place. You recently met a friend there?

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I did. I went to the Hell Saloon and yeah,

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did we have a good time. I did have a

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good time. Yeah. It's it's a cute little town. It's

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kind of like a kitchy little thing with you know,

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themes like Hell. There's not much to it, but it's well.

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There's isn't there. There's an ice cream place and like

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a mini pup place and a couple of little shops.

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It's a cute little place.

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Yeah.

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We are at the peak of cherry season here in Michigan,

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which is one of my favorite times a year. Cherries

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are one of my favorite fruits, and they really are

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delicious here in Michigan. So I made you a snack.

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I made you some cookies. I went to our local

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market the other day and I got some cherries, some

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fresh cherries, but I also got dried cherries.

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Interesting.

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So I made you some cookies. And I've never made

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cherry cookies before. This is a recipe from Sally's Baking.

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It is white chocolate chip cherry oatmeal cookies. I know

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you're not the biggest oatmeal guy, but I don't.

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Mind oatmeal as long as there's not like raisins in it.

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I think everything else it looks good.

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So I think cherry tried cherries and raises they're pretty similar.

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Not really, how are they not? Really? Because they're both

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like it's a grape that's dried or a cherry that's drucke.

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They are there are similarities for sure, But raisins I

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just don't care for.

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But it's of like a plump fresh raisin sometimes like

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in the box of raisin brand, like they get kind

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of crusty and gross. But no, you're just a yeah.

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But those cookies look really good.

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Yeah, all right, we're gonna get them.

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Try.

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I sure do.

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Rate my cookie.

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I thought it was excellent, really good, goodlavor. I didn't

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get a lot of cherry out of it, maybe just

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the bites I had didn't have a lot of cherry.

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I put like one and a half times in the

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cherries to be.

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Called for, but very oatmeal forward. We've been watching Cop

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Shecheff a lot lately. In cases, yes, you didn't realize

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they were that phrase came from But no, I loved it.

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I think nine out of ten.

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Oh, okay, you're maybe an easy grader.

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Well when it comes to cookies, I like you said

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on part one, I haven't been eating sugar lately, so

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any kind of sweet tree is probably gonna taste really good.

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Well, I'm so glad that you like them. Maybe we

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can take a few on vacation.

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Yeah, let's do it, all right, Are.

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You ready to get back to Nancy and Brad Cooper.

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I am do you want to give us a summary?

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Sure? Canadian couple Nancy and Brad Cooper married quickly in

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two thousand after Brad accepted a job with Cisco Systems

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in North Carolina. The sudden moved to the US, combined

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with the loss of their support network, put an immediate

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strain on the relationship. Nancy nearly left Brad early in

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the marriage for another man, but by the time their

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first daughter, Bella, was born in two thousand and four,

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she had begun to settle into life in Carrie, North Carolina,

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building a strong circle of friends. Their second daughter, Katie,

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was born in two thousand and six. Brad, a telec

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communications engineer, traveled frequently for work and was often emotionally

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and physically unavailable. Tensions in the marriage grew, with Brad

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becoming increasingly controlling, removing Nancy's name from their joint accounts,

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taking away her credit cards, and giving her a three

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hundred dollars weekly cash allowance, which he claimed was necessary

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due to her shopaholic tendencies. They had decided to divorce,

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with Brad initially saying Nancy and the girls could move

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to Canada. But once he saw the separation agreement and

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the steep child support he would be required to pay,

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he changed course. On the morning of July twelve, two

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thousand and eight, just hours after the couple attended a

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neighborhood barbecue, Nancy was reported missing by a friend, not Brad.

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He had said that she went for a run and

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never returned. Her sudden disappearance alarmed her tight knit friend group,

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and suspicion fell on Brad almost immediately. By the time

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Nancy's body was found two days later in a muddy

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drainage ditch three miles from their home, investigators were already

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narrowing their focus on her husband. When we left off.

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Emergency custody of Bella and Katie had been awarded to

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her family, but Brad remained a free man due to

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the lack of evidence linking him to Nancy's murder.

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Would you like to add anything to that?

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No, I think that was pretty pretty thorough, okay.

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In the days following the discovery of Nancy's body, the

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police chief asked the community to take down the missing

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person's posters and place them with white ribbons as a

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tribute to Nancy. At a subsequent press conference, Her family

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members stepped up to the microphone one by one, each

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sharing heartfelt memories and expressing how deeply they loved and

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missed Nancy. They were a tight knit, devoted family who

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made time together a priority, spending a week together every

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Christmas and taking an annual vacation together. Just five days

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before Nancy's death, they had returned from a week long

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trip to Hiltonhead Island without Brad, a memory that now

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brought them comfort and gratitude. They spoke lovingly of Nancy's warmth, kindness,

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sharp sense of humor, and generous spirit. The family strength,

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resilience and commitment to caring for Nancy's daughters would have

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made her proud. Meanwhile, Brad and his attorneys held a

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press conference too. They reminded the media that Brad hadn't

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been named as a suspect and had cooperated with the police.

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I'm not so sure how much he really was cooperating,

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because remember he never went in for a formal statement.

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He was questioned at his house a few times, but

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he never went down to the police station. Seth Blum,

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one of the attorneys, said, quote, I speak to you

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today as a result of the wild speculation that has

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been internationally reported surrounding the death of Brad's wife, Nancy.

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The bizarre and unsupportive theories that have been floating around

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television and the Internet have made it impossible for us

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to sit quietly and to say nothing. Brad Cooper is

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a private man. He's not accustomed to the hot glare

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of the media spotlight. He never dreamed that he would

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see his face splashed across television news shows or his

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name in the headlines, especially not under these terrible circumstances.

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Brad Cooper is also a man in mourning. He's lost

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his wife. He is grieving. Mister Cooper wishes to mourn privately.

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He does not want to do it at press conferences.

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He does not wish to do it for reporters. He

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does not wish to mourn in the public eye. Brad's

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attorneys took an unusual approach and their effort to shape

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public opinion. On their law firm's website. They created a

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dedicated section for his case, sharing documents, surveillance camera footage,

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and commentary. One statement rad quote. We hope Brad will

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be afforded the same dignity and presumption of innocence that

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each of us would demand for ourselves. We pray that

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the distorted focus on Brad Cooper will not allow the

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guilty to escape detection.

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That is a pretty novel approach. I haven't heard of

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that before. It kind of screams like being defensive though.

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It just seems like it just feels like they're on

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the defensive, which I guess they are.

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I think that can get you in trouble with a

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judge too, though. Like sharing evidence before the trial, the

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site included a detailed timeline of events and security footage

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showing Brad making two trips to the grocery store before

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seven am on July twelfth, in response to a rumor

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that Brad had purchased bleach to clean up after killing Nancy.

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The footage showed clearly that he only bought milk and

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laundry detergent at two separate times, six twenty five and

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six forty four am. Another section of the website appeared

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aimed at discrediting Nancy's close knit circle of friends, referring

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to them dismissively as the Carrie Click. On Saturday, July nineteenth,

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hundreds gathered at the cuckabooth Amphitheater, a place Nancy loved,

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for a memorial in her honor. The Rents family, still

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staying at a hotel, planned to attend with Bella and Katie,

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but Bella didn't know that her mother was gone yet.

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Katie was too young to understand. The family had consulted

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a child psychologist about how to best break the news.

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The plan was for Brad to come to the hotel

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so they could tell Bella together. Instead, Brad took the

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girl swimming, leaving them little time before the memorial. That

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responsibility ultimately fell to Nancy's mother, Donna. In the car

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on the way to the service, Donna gently told Bella,

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Mommy was lost and they couldn't find her. When they

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found Mommy, the doctors couldn't help her. Mommy has died.

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Mommy is with the angels. Bella, who was about four

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and a half, seemed to understand. She cried softly and repeated,

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Mommy is not coming back. Donna held her close and said, no,

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but we're all here. We all love you and we're

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going to take care of you.

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That's so hard because there's no way a child that

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young is going to be able to understand right It

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happened right.

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The memorial was deeply emotional, with many of Nancy's friends

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speaking about her warmth, kindness, and joy. Brad Cooper was

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noticeably absent. A few days later, another memorial was held

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in Nancy's hometown of Edmonton. Friends and family created a

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moving photomontage set to music, capturing moments from Nancy's life.

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Hundreds of images were shared, but not a single one

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included Brad, so you can tell the family is starting

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to pull away from Brad. Yeah, did the investigators in

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this case have tunnel vision? Were there other leads that

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weren't followed up on? From pretty early on, it seemed

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like the police had their sights set on Brad Cooper

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and they weren't looking anywhere else. Once Nancy's body was

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found and the public started asking questions, investigators zeroed in

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on Brad. It's not entirely surprising statistically speaking, of course,

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when a woman is killed, the husband is most often responsible,

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but there's a difference between following a lead and getting

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stuck on one. Brad was definitely acting a little off,

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and there were things that raised eyebrows, like the cleaned

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out trunk of his BMW and the fact that only

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parts of the house had been freshly cleaned, but instead

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of asking why you're keeping an open mind, it seemed

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like investors took every odd detail as a confirmation that

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Brad was guilty. Brad said he cleaned the trunk because

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he spilled gasoline, but there was no lingering odor of gas.

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Instead of investigating that further, the police just didn't buy it.

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And that group of tight knit friends Nancy had the

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so called carry click, had a lot to say about Brad.

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00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:21.200
They described him as controlling and emotionally distant, and police

239
00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:24.360
seemed to take their word for it without much pushback,

240
00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.200
while their perspective definitely mattered. There's a difference between testimony

241
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:31.679
and assumption. What's more troubling is the idea that other

242
00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.080
leads may have been ignored completely. If Nancy did go

243
00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.519
for a run that morning, did police thoroughly check the

244
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:40.600
area or follow up with every possible witness, or were

245
00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.720
they already so focused on Brad that they pushed those

246
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:47.840
avenues aside. Brad's defense team later argued that the case

247
00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.799
against him was more about fitting the facts into a

248
00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:53.919
theory than actually solving the crime, and it's hard not

249
00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:56.480
to wonder were investigators trying to figure out who killed

250
00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.279
Nancy or were they just trying to prove it was Brad.

251
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:02.480
Was Brad really abusive to Nancy, or was she just

252
00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.799
very vocal to her friends about every perceived slight and disagreement.

253
00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:09.799
I mention all of this because a lot of people

254
00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:12.399
think that Brad could possibly be innocent.

255
00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:15.759
Yeah. Well, it's definitely true that police do sometimes have

256
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:19.320
tunnel vision, and that's not a good thing. But sometimes

257
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.240
it's they have tunnel vision because it's kind.

258
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.840
Of obvious that's where the evidence is pointing.

259
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.720
Yeah, but I do agree like that his alibi that

260
00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.559
she went on a run and disappeared, should have been

261
00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:31.639
very thoroughly checked out, like I would think they would

262
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:36.440
canvass the entire neighborhood everywhere that she potentially would have gone.

263
00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:37.559
I believe that they did.

264
00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:37.960
Yeah.

265
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.480
Yeah, So in the morning of July twelfth, many people

266
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:43.399
were out walking or jogging early to beat the rising

267
00:13:43.399 --> 00:13:47.200
summer heat. Despite the active neighborhood, no one initially came

268
00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.080
forward to see that they'd seen Nancy until Rosemary Zednik

269
00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:54.279
spoke up. She said that she'd tried contacting the Carrey

270
00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:58.879
Police department multiple times, but never received a follow up. Eventually,

271
00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:02.279
she gave a more an affidavit to Brad Cooper's attorneys,

272
00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.399
stating that she'd seen Nancy around seven to ten while

273
00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:09.080
out walking her dog. According to Rosemary, Nancy jogged past her,

274
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:12.080
wearing an iPod and greeting her with a quick high.

275
00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:15.960
At the time, Rosemary didn't recognize Nancy, but later, after

276
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:19.480
seeing a missing person's fire, she realized that it had

277
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:20.200
been Nancy.

278
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.519
This reminds me a little bit of lazy Peters.

279
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:23.159
I didn't say that.

280
00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.919
Yes, It just worries me because I think when a

281
00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.879
story like this comes out, people their memories are not

282
00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:31.200
always so good, and they want to be they want

283
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.480
to have seen her, and so they're like, yeah, I

284
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:34.720
did see her. I'm sure it was her.

285
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.840
It's almost like you're a police officer, I know, with

286
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.879
the Carrie Police Department, because I think that's what they said.

287
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.559
I mean, yeah. Brad filed several affidavits with the court

288
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:47.039
in an attempt to undo the damage caused by the

289
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:50.960
sworn statements from Nancy's friends. He denied all the allegations

290
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:54.360
against him, he had an answer for everything. In response

291
00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.360
to the claim that he was financially abusive to Nancy.

292
00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.679
Brad said that after paying the bills, he gave Nancy

293
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.559
eighty percent of whatever remained. According to his affidavit, this

294
00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:07.480
came out to roughly three hundred dollars a week. He

295
00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.159
said that Nancy often told him it wasn't enough, and

296
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:13.080
that he frequently tried to supplement the amount when he could.

297
00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.600
They were deeply in debt and he was trying to

298
00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.120
pull them out and live within their means. And we

299
00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:20.440
talked about it on Part one. Three hundred dollars a week,

300
00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.559
which in today's dollars I think you said was four

301
00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:24.840
hundred and fifty dollars a week. It's not a small

302
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.960
amount when it comes to buying groceries and kind of

303
00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.320
daily household expenditures.

304
00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:35.240
Right. I think back to Josh Powell, Josh and Susan Powell.

305
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.639
He was severely financially abusive to his wife and like

306
00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.799
to a much greater extent. Right. But like we said

307
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:45.159
in Part one, I think it's more the idea of

308
00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.360
taking a grown up credit cards and paying account from them.

309
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:52.639
That is definitely yeah, that is overly controlling. Yes, Brad

310
00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:55.919
disputed that he ever took Nancy's phone away and produced

311
00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.279
phone records that showed that Nancy had made three four

312
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.480
hundred and fifty six cell phone calls between January and

313
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.080
June of two thousand and eight. That's about twenty calls

314
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:05.440
a day.

315
00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:08.120
That's so many calls is a lot. She had a

316
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:09.840
lot of French. She was very popular.

317
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.120
He claimed it was Nancy's lavish spending that caused them

318
00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:15.879
to be forty five thousand dollars in debt and required

319
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:18.679
him to take out an eighty thousand dollars home equity loan.

320
00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.200
Brad said in his affidavit quote, Nancy liked to buy

321
00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:26.879
eight thousand dollars paintings, designer clothing, Tiffany jewelry status was

322
00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:29.519
important to Nancy, and I indulged her too much.

323
00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:32.879
I think that he is exaggerating greatly. I think that

324
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:35.120
Nancy liked nice things, but I don't think that she

325
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.960
was a shopaholic. I think when you're young and you

326
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:39.879
have two young kids, there's a lot of you know,

327
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:44.440
needs and right once and yeah, It's not like she

328
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:46.279
went out every week and was like, you know, I'm

329
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.559
gonna buy this ten thousand dollars painting. Yeah, it happened once.

330
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.720
He pointed to a fully loaded BMW that she had

331
00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.080
wanted that he had purchased. He cited a three thousand

332
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.759
dollar necklace that he had bought her for Christmas as well.

333
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.559
He broke down there two thousand and seven spending on

334
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.519
their American Express card. Nancy spent twenty seven thousand dollars

335
00:17:05.559 --> 00:17:09.240
and he spent seventeen thousand dollars. He made about sixty

336
00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.839
five thousand dollars a year, which is about one hundred

337
00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.000
thousand in today's dollars. One hundred thousand dollars a year

338
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.880
in today's dollars. That seems remarkably low for when we

339
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.200
talked about in part one. He has an very very

340
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:27.599
specialized skill set in telecommunications and voiceover IP or voice,

341
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.680
so it seems, Yeah, that seems really low to me.

342
00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:34.200
Yeah, their budget was tight and being forty thousand dollars

343
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:36.519
in debt, like you have to tighten things up where

344
00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:38.680
that debt is just going to keep snowballing.

345
00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.240
Yeah, for sure. Brad admitted to only one affair, a

346
00:17:42.279 --> 00:17:45.880
one night stand with Heather Mature. Along with his affidavit,

347
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.960
he sent numerous pictures of himself as a doting father

348
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:53.200
dressed up for Halloween, swimming, reading and holding them lovingly

349
00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:57.359
as babies. To quote Amy Lamb, the author of Love Lies,

350
00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.599
A True Story of Marriage and Murder in the Suburbs quote,

351
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.000
the pictures were so normal, so mundane. It seemed that

352
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.359
either this man was being set up or he was

353
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:10.799
a master of deception. Brad's parents and brother submitted affidavits

354
00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:13.599
in support of his effort to retain custody of Bella

355
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:16.880
and Katie. Two of the girl's preschool teachers and five

356
00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:20.920
of Brad's friends also provided statements on his behalf. One

357
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:24.279
friend submitted affidavits for both Brad and the Rents family.

358
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:28.000
The affidavits didn't say anything negative about Nancy, just that

359
00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.839
Brad was a loving, capable father. On July twenty fifth,

360
00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:36.279
nearly two weeks after Nancy's murder, the emergency custody agreement expired,

361
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.960
prompting a court hearing. That same day, Nancy's sister and

362
00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:43.200
brother in law, Christa and Jim Lister, filed a motion

363
00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:48.000
requesting that Brad undergo a psychological evaluation, expressing concern that

364
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:51.640
he was unfit to parent. Brad was hesitant to testify

365
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:52.839
under oath, so.

366
00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.519
This case is very similar to the Michelle and Jason

367
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.039
Young case that we did a few weeks ago. And

368
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:03.440
remember that Jason he relinquished custody of his daughters rather

369
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.559
than testify under oaths. Right, but at least Brad here is,

370
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:09.799
you know, willing to testify.

371
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:13.920
His reluctance led the judge to extend temporary custody to

372
00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:16.480
the Rentz family until a full hearing could be held

373
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:19.519
in October. In the meantime, Brad was permitted to call

374
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.720
his daughters four times a week and have supervised visits

375
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.640
twice a month, limited to four hours each weekend.

376
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.480
These calls, I guess were a nightmare for Christa and

377
00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.440
Jim to try to harness the kids and say hey,

378
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:34.799
let's have a call with Daddy, and yeah, they had

379
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.920
no interest in it. You know, Katie is just two

380
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.759
and Bellows four, and they just really hated having to

381
00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:44.319
talk to Brad over the phone. And Brad was really

382
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:46.720
you know, heard because he wanted to talk to his

383
00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:49.200
girls and they were very far away. So it was

384
00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:50.519
it was a tough situation.

385
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:53.799
Yeah, that is a tough situation. His attorneys framed the

386
00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:56.640
custody decision as one that Brad accepted for the sake

387
00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:59.680
of his children, suggesting that he wanted to shield them

388
00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.519
from the media spotlight and believed that they were better

389
00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.240
off in Canada away from public scrutiny. In a statement

390
00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:09.559
released after the ruling, his legal team said quote, while

391
00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.240
he will miss the daily joys of fatherhood, he fully

392
00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.319
intends to remain a vital force in his children's lives.

393
00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:18.599
Though it is painful to contemplate any additional day without

394
00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.200
his girls, mister Cooper accepts this as a heartrending but

395
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:24.720
necessary step toward achieving justice.

396
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:29.279
I'm surprised that the judge allowed Christa, the rent's family

397
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:32.599
to take the girls to Canada, because it's twelve hours

398
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.400
from Toronto to carry North Carolina. Yeah.

399
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:38.279
I'm surprised at that too. I mean, I know he's

400
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:42.119
under suspicion and it maybe wasn't a good parent or

401
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:44.319
a good fit for him to have custody, But I

402
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:48.599
would think that they would take into consideration than arrested.

403
00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:49.079
Yeah.

404
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.279
Yeah, don't get me wrong. I don't want to to

405
00:20:52.279 --> 00:20:55.559
seem like I'm empathetic towards Brat. It just was a surprise.

406
00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:58.880
It is surprising. Yeah, we'll be back after a break.

407
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.319
After Nancy's death, both girls, especially four year old Bella,

408
00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:13.400
struggled with the overwhelming loss. Ellie began having accidents and

409
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:17.559
became emotionally fragile, prone to sudden tears and intense tantrums.

410
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:20.559
Her grandparents arranged for her to see a grief counselor,

411
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.480
but nothing could soothe the pain of losing her mother.

412
00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.880
It was heartbreaking to witness. When they gently reminded her

413
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:29.559
that her mommy was now with the angels, Bella looked

414
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.240
at the sky and cried, Mommy, where are you? I

415
00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:35.720
need you. She carried a photo of Nancy everywhere she went.

416
00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:38.920
Bella kept a special box filled with little treasures and

417
00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:42.240
trinkets that reminded her of her mom. Sweet, four year

418
00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.880
old sized keepsakes she either clung to or hoped to

419
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:49.200
show Nancy. One day, That simple ritual seemed to give

420
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:52.960
her a bit of comfort. So heartbreaking it is. Katie,

421
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.519
being younger, couldn't fully express what she was feeling, but

422
00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.640
the signs of her grief were clear. Her sleep became

423
00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:02.799
disordered and her speech was noticeably delayed. Donna and Gary

424
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:05.480
Wrenz adored their granddaughters, but felt they were too old

425
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:08.359
to take on the demands of full time parenting. Among

426
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:10.880
Nancy's siblings, all were happily married, and two of the

427
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.359
couples had one child each. Christa and Nancy's twin had

428
00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:16.960
been very close to Bella and Katie. She called them

429
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.519
every morning on the way to school. The girls called

430
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.880
her Christamum, and because she looked so much like Nancy,

431
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.279
her present was a comfort to them after their mother

432
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:29.559
was gone. Christa had undergone a hysterectomy and couldn't conceive naturally,

433
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:32.240
but she shared a deep bond with her nieces, who

434
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.400
adored her in return. When Nancy was still alive, the

435
00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.680
sisters had even discussed the possibility of Nancy asked acting

436
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:41.640
as a surrogate for Christa after her death. The Rent's

437
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.279
family believed that Christa and her husband Jim were the

438
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:47.640
best choice to raise Bella and Katie. The only complication

439
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.240
was that they lived in Toronto, while the rest of

440
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:53.920
the family remained in Edmonton, over two thousand miles away.

441
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.720
Christa said quote, I always wanted kids to get them

442
00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.839
this way. No, but the cool thing is that they've

443
00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.920
got my DNA. Nan and I shared that it's the

444
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.319
closest thing to having kids for me. Krista and Jim

445
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:10.880
embraced parenting their nieces despite the challenges they faced. Krista

446
00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:13.559
left her career as an interior designer to care for

447
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:17.680
Bella and Katy full time. Both girls struggled with separation, anxiety,

448
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.400
and sleep issues, an understandable response to the trauma that

449
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:25.160
they had endured, but with patience, structure, and unconditional support,

450
00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:28.319
they began to heal. Krista and Jim enrolled them in

451
00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:32.480
ballet and gymnastics, and in their bedroom they displayed family photos,

452
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.960
including pictures of both Nancy and Brad. The girl psychologist

453
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:40.400
was encouraged by their progress. In a deposition during the

454
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:44.319
custody proceedings, she praised the family's efforts, saying, quote, this

455
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.279
is a remarkable family who truly thinks and acts whatever

456
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.559
way is required to serve the best interest of these children.

457
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.720
I have never had reason to question their integrity or

458
00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:57.599
their commitment to provide Bella and Katy with a happy,

459
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.960
healthy life, one that, though without out their mother, keeps

460
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.640
Nancy Cooper's presence very much alive for them. Her influence,

461
00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:07.960
character and strength remade an integral part of their lives.

462
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:11.559
On August sixth, two thousand and eight, a new sworn

463
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:15.440
affidavit was submitted to the court, this time by Carrie Clark,

464
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:18.920
the friend that Brad claimed Nancy had gone running with

465
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.799
on the morning of July twelfth. The statement was just

466
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.160
one sentence, but it dramatically shifted the course of the

467
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:29.680
investigation and public perception of Brad Cooper. Quote. I had

468
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:33.240
no plans to run with Nancy Cooper on Saturday, July twelfth,

469
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:35.960
two thousand and eight, and I never ran with Nancy

470
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:40.359
Cooper on July twelfth, two thousand and eight. While the

471
00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:43.319
affidavit didn't prove that Nancy hadn't gone for our run

472
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:46.960
that day, it casts serious doubt on Brad's version of events,

473
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:48.920
and it didn't look good for him.

474
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:50.440
No, it doesn't look good for him.

475
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.640
I don't know why Brad would say that.

476
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:54.599
I know that seems really such an.

477
00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:55.920
Easy thing to check up on.

478
00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:57.119
Yeah.

479
00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.960
With the custody issue not resolved and Brad not arrested,

480
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:05.519
he sat for a comprehensive psychological evaluation in August, an

481
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:09.440
eight hour test that costs about twelve thousand dollars. Ultimately,

482
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:12.920
the results found him to be a normal, nonviolent person

483
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.440
with an anger problem that he mostly kept under control,

484
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:17.839
especially in public.

485
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:23.400
That is my nightmare, be psychologically festive.

486
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.839
They would probably just commit me right then in there.

487
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:28.839
Do you think you would? How would you fare?

488
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:31.559
I have no idea. I don't really want to know either.

489
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:34.319
I guess think you're pretty unflappable. Brad sat for a

490
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:37.480
deposition in October two thousand and eight again for the

491
00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:42.119
custody battle. He seemed calm and unflappable, because that's a

492
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.839
favorite word, I guess. So some things that were memorable

493
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.799
were Brad not recalling the color of the dress Nancy

494
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.240
had worn the night of the party, and not remembering

495
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:53.799
if he'd washed it. Do you think that you can

496
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.480
recall what I wore yesterday?

497
00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:58.279
No, I definitely that part doesn't seem at all suspicious

498
00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:00.440
to me, because yeah, there's I wouldn't remember that either,

499
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.720
But not remembering if he'd washed it? Did he he

500
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:05.839
didn't normally do the laundry. I'm guessing it.

501
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:08.200
Didn't normally do laundry, but if you remember when he

502
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.960
went to the grocery store, he did purchase laundry detergent,

503
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.559
So either he or Nancy was doing laundry that morning.

504
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:17.039
But typically no, I don't believe he did it. He

505
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:19.720
claimed to never have driven by fielding drive in the

506
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:23.480
new subdivision where Nancy's body was found. Quote, no, I

507
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:26.279
haven't driven past it. I have no interest in driving

508
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:29.880
past it. When asked about his past relationships, he named

509
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:34.839
his two ex fiancees, Taylene Lyon and Jennifer Wilson. He

510
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.599
said there was no history of violence, but neither woman

511
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.720
could be found to corroborate this claim. We'll come back

512
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.920
to this in a few minutes after the deposition was

513
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.519
made public, Detective Greg Daniels, who was leading the investigation,

514
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.920
made a statement, quote, Bradley Cooper has not fully cooperated

515
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:56.160
with her investigation into the murder of Nancy Cooper and

516
00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:58.640
has not been willing to come to the police department

517
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:03.160
to assist in the vastigation and provide information, despite formal

518
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.319
requests from the Carrey Police Department that he do so.

519
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:10.079
The testimony given under oath by Bradley Cooper during his

520
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:14.359
video deposition is inconsistent with the statements made by Bradley

521
00:27:14.359 --> 00:27:17.519
Cooper to the Carrie Police Department at his residence on

522
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:22.319
July twelfth, thirteenth and fourteenth, two thousand and eight. Jennifer Windsor,

523
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.079
who had previously been referred to in legal documents as

524
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:30.839
Jennifer Wilson, believed Brad Cooper intentionally mistated her name to

525
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:35.799
make her harder to find. After moving from Alberta to Hawaii,

526
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:38.960
she was contacted by a friend back in Canada who

527
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.759
told her that her name had come up in Brad's deposition.

528
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:46.680
In response, Jennifer voluntarily offered to provide a statement. In

529
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:52.279
her deposition, she described Brad as emotionally abusive throughout their relationship. Quote,

530
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:56.319
he constantly belittled me in front of others. He frequently

531
00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:59.279
criticized my weight and appearance, even telling people I look

532
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.599
pregnant when I I wasn't. Jennifer said that she had

533
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.000
never before and never since, been in a relationship where

534
00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:09.799
she was treated so poorly. She described Brad as emotionally

535
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.960
detached and mentally cruel. After they broke up, she asked

536
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.559
him to move out, and he simply relocated to another

537
00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:19.799
apartment in the same building. A neighbor warren Jennifer that

538
00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:22.759
Brad had been entering her apartment while she was away.

539
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:25.920
Quote by the end of our relationship, I feared for

540
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:31.160
my physical safety. His behavior became increasingly disturbing, so much though,

541
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.480
that I broke my lease and moved out to avoid

542
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.640
living in the same building as him.

543
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.240
Wow, that's pretty damning as well. Did they ever find

544
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:39.680
the other ex fiance?

545
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:40.880
Not that I know of.

546
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:45.119
On October sixteenth, another custody hearing was held to determine

547
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.559
if Bella and Katie would remain in Canada or rejoin

548
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:49.880
Brad in North Carolina.

549
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.559
I think during this time Brad had only seen the

550
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.279
girls twice. He had to have supervised custody. He had

551
00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.519
to go I'm sorry, supervised visitation. He had to go

552
00:28:59.559 --> 00:29:02.640
to a a certain building and people had to watch

553
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:04.960
him with the girls, and he could only see them

554
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:06.160
for four hours at a time.

555
00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:10.519
Okay. Nancy's family and friends again all testified, but Brad

556
00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:13.440
did not. A new witness at this hearing was doctor

557
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:17.599
James Hilkey, the psychologist who had evaluated Brad. He said

558
00:29:17.640 --> 00:29:20.640
Brad was very intelligent, but not good at reading social

559
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:25.400
cues and sometimes came off as arrogant and detached. He said, quote,

560
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:28.319
I think mister Cooper is a very complex man. He

561
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:31.400
is in a very complex situation, which makes the evaluation

562
00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:35.440
challenging mister Cooper presents as someone who is somewhat angry

563
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:39.000
and somewhat anxious. He couldn't rule out that Brad was

564
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:43.720
being deceptive. Rosemary Zednik testified with certainty that the woman

565
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:47.680
she saw running on July twelfth was Nancy Cooper. However,

566
00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:51.359
her eagerness to be involved raised some eyebrows. She had

567
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.440
reached out to police nine times, and, frustrated by the

568
00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:58.559
lack of response, eventually contacted Brad's defense team, who were

569
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:01.400
eager to hear what she had to say. At that point,

570
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:04.119
she was the only person besides Brad who claimed to

571
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:06.960
have seen Nancy alive that morning. At the end of

572
00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:10.079
the eight hour hearing, the judge asked for patients as

573
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:12.920
she thought about it. Four days later, she ruled that

574
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:16.359
Bella and Katie could remain in Canada with Christa and

575
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:17.839
her husband, Jim.

576
00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:20.839
I'm so glad that this judge had that foresight to

577
00:30:21.079 --> 00:30:25.319
leave them in Canada because again, it reminds me of

578
00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.119
other cases that we've had, like Susan and Josh Powell,

579
00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:31.119
where the children weren't safe with their father. Yeah, and

580
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:33.640
I think the children's safety is the most important thing.

581
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:35.880
Yeah, it just seems like the best situation all around

582
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:39.559
for the children at this point. On Monday, October twenty seventh,

583
00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:42.279
two thousand and eight, a grand jury in Wake County

584
00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.880
convened to review the evidence against Brad Cooper. By the

585
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.200
end of the day, he was arrested and charged with

586
00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:51.720
the first degree murder of his wife, Nancy. Neighbors watched

587
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:53.960
from their doorsteps as Brad was led out of his

588
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:56.799
home in handcuffs. One even stood in the street and

589
00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:00.559
cheered and applauded. That same day, Brad appeared in court,

590
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:04.319
his face expressionless as the judge ordered him held without bond.

591
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.799
His legal team told the court that Brad had exhausted

592
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:12.160
his financial resources and requested a public defender. The judge

593
00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.160
agreed to let his attorney, Howard Kurtz stay on the case,

594
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:18.720
with the state covering the cost. In a somewhat unexpected

595
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:22.359
show of support, Brad's mother, Carol Cooper, attended the hearing.

596
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.160
She stood by her son, but declined to speak with reporters.

597
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:30.400
Nancy's family was elated, mostly because Bella and Katie were

598
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:33.440
now safe and their custody would no longer be in question.

599
00:31:34.119 --> 00:31:38.960
Christa said, quote huge weight lifted. I was elated. Oh man,

600
00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:41.359
we were so happy. We felt like we won. It

601
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.960
was good closure. Now we have the kids, We're good.

602
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.720
I felt that all of my suspicions were correct and

603
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:50.720
that I was finally allowed to grieve and say, Okay,

604
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:53.000
now I know that what I was feeling was right.

605
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.799
It was great. It was so good. In early December,

606
00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:59.480
at a rule twenty four hearing, the DA announced the

607
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.680
state would not be seeking the death penalty. The judge

608
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:04.880
set bail at two million dollars.

609
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:08.400
Which he was not able to provide, and stayed in jail.

610
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.200
The psychologist advised Christa and Jim that the girls would

611
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.000
only bring up things they were ready to face. In

612
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:17.880
February two thousand and nine, a girl at Bella's school

613
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:19.880
drew a picture of a woman in a pool of

614
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.359
blood and said, this is Bella's mama.

615
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:24.079
Oh this makes me so mad.

616
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:28.640
Yeah, that's really awful, another parent told Christa, who immediately

617
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.960
went to the school to confirm the story. The psychologist

618
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:34.519
urged her to be honest with Bella, but keep her

619
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:38.480
answers simple and age appropriate. One evening, sitting on the

620
00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:42.319
bathroom floor, Bella said, matter of factly, quote I know, Mama,

621
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:45.400
Nancy didn't get hurt running. She was too strong. It

622
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:48.960
had to be a bear or a man. Christa gently replied,

623
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.519
it wasn't a bear. You're right, she was killed. Bella

624
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.759
looked her straight in the eye. Do you know who

625
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:58.759
Christa's heart pounded? Quote? No, But the police have a

626
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.400
suspect and one day there will be a trial. They're

627
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:04.160
working very hard to find out who did this. That's

628
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:06.720
a really delicate conversation to have to have.

629
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:10.799
Yeah, and the bear man thing too, is very astute

630
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:12.359
for five year old.

631
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:15.599
As much as she wanted to tell Bella everything, Christa

632
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:19.279
knew she had to wait until Brad was convicted. In

633
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.079
May two thousand and nine, Brad signed away his parental

634
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.680
rights to his children, giving Christa and Jim permanent custody,

635
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:28.119
but he was still hoping to win them back. When

636
00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:32.839
he was exonerated, Brad's attorneys subpoenaed Nancy's medical records and

637
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:36.240
found she had an STD screening in April two thousand

638
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.960
and eight. They used this to accuse her of having

639
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:42.599
multiple affairs. It's unclear why she had the test, but

640
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.759
could just as easily have been because she was protecting

641
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:50.200
herself from Brad's extramarital affairs. Brad wanted the trial moved,

642
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.759
thinking a fair trial would be impossible in Wake County.

643
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:56.440
But that did not happen. Brad Cooper's trial for the

644
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:59.640
first degree murder of his wife began nearly three years

645
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.279
after her death in March twenty eleven. Brad's parents flew

646
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.839
in for the trial to support their son, keeping to

647
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:10.079
themselves and not talking to the media. During opening arguments,

648
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:14.800
Assistant da Amy Fitzhugh accused Brad of intercepting and reading

649
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:18.400
Nancy's emails and financial control. She said that Brad had

650
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:21.480
been uncooperative with police and that his story had changed

651
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:25.239
over time. She closed with quote, you will be convinced

652
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.480
that Nancy Brenz Cooper never went for a run on

653
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.719
July twelve, two thousand and eight. You will be convinced

654
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.960
that Bradley Graham Cooper killed his wife and his guilty

655
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:38.679
of first degree murder. The prosecution's theory was that Brad

656
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.199
strangled Nancy on the night of July twelfth when she

657
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:44.119
came home, and then dumped her body at the construction

658
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:48.199
site between the grocery store runs. The next morning. Howard Kurtzy,

659
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.400
speaking for Brad's defense, spoke for more than two hours,

660
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:55.519
dropping new evidence as he went. He claimed that sixteen

661
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:59.760
people had seen Nancy out jogging on Saturday, July twelfth,

662
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.639
but police had never followed up with any of them,

663
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:06.599
accusing the Carey Police Department of tunnel vision ignoring any

664
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:09.559
evidence that didn't fit into their narrative that Bread had

665
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:13.639
killed Nancy. Kurtz accused Nancy of quote airing the couple's

666
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:18.320
dirty laundry and embellishing as only she could. He also

667
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:21.840
accused Nancy of having an affair with a neighbor, John Pearson,

668
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.719
who had admitted to having sex with Nancy after a

669
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:28.159
Halloween party while Brad was out of town. Katy was

670
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:32.199
born eight months and twenty four days later. Defense attorneys

671
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:35.039
had attempted to get a DNA test done, but they

672
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.119
were never able to do so. They were trying to

673
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:42.400
lay groundwork that Pearson had motive. Pearson would say under

674
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.079
oath later that he didn't think Katy was his child,

675
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:48.320
but he'd also wondered. He said that the sexual encounter

676
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:51.559
with Nancy ended abruptly when they'd realized it was a mistake,

677
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.599
and they'd agreed to never talk about it again. At

678
00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:57.480
the time, Nancy had been trying actively to get pregnant

679
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:01.760
and was undergoing fertility treatments. And for what it's worth,

680
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:06.159
John Pearson did have an alibi for July twelfth, and

681
00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.119
he was with his children while his ex wife was working.

682
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:10.000
Interesting.

683
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:13.559
Brad's demeanor during the trial appeared odd to some people.

684
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:17.400
He was seen smiling and joking with his attorneys. One

685
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.159
point the prosecution wanted to drive home was that Nancy

686
00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:23.239
had been murdered the night before her disappearance when she

687
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:26.519
returned from the party. They contended that the phone call

688
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:29.400
that Brad had received asking him to return to the

689
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:32.559
store was an automated phone call that he'd set up

690
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:36.000
using software from his job. Oh interesting, Does that make

691
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:36.480
sense to you?

692
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.360
I mean, I don't know how easy that would be

693
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:42.000
to do, but it does make sense that that could

694
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:42.840
be a possibility.

695
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.400
Yes, I've heard that. People say that that's actually not

696
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:46.079
that hard to do.

697
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:46.519
Yeah.

698
00:36:47.000 --> 00:36:50.400
A CSI agent testified that there was evidence of blood

699
00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:53.360
found under Nancy's fingernails, but it wasn't able to be

700
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:57.480
identified due to her body being exposed to the elements

701
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:00.760
for so long. A detective testified that they'd never found

702
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:03.239
the pair of sneakers that Brad was wearing during his

703
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:06.519
first grocery store run. During the second run, he was

704
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:10.280
wearing sandals or flip flops. A geologist analyzed the soil

705
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:12.920
in a different pair of brad sneakers and said that

706
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:16.800
it contained micah, a mineral found in the soil where

707
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:20.440
Nancy was found, which was the only forensic evidence linking

708
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:23.119
him to Nancy's murder, and that was pretty weak and.

709
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:25.639
Feels micah is probably found in a lot of places,

710
00:37:25.719 --> 00:37:26.519
right yeah.

711
00:37:26.719 --> 00:37:29.639
A voice technology expert testify that on the morning of

712
00:37:29.719 --> 00:37:33.199
July twelfth, Brad made several brief calls to check his

713
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.400
voicemail at six thirty seven, six forty five, and six

714
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.840
point fifty three. At seven twenty six am, he called

715
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.199
Cisco's voicemail system in Ireland and left a three second

716
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:48.039
message that was routed to his North Carolina office. The

717
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:52.960
message simply said testing one two three. Then at seven

718
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:56.400
point fifty six, he dialed into Cisco's conference call system

719
00:37:56.440 --> 00:38:00.400
based in San Jose, California. His testimony was very technical,

720
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:03.400
but in essence he acknowledged that it was possible to

721
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:06.679
remotely place a call to his cell phone and make

722
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:09.519
it look like it had originated from his home phone.

723
00:38:10.119 --> 00:38:13.039
To make this special phone call, Brad would need a router,

724
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:17.599
this very specific router, and it was available at his

725
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:20.320
Cisco office. If you worked in the Cisco office, you

726
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:23.400
were welcome to take any equipment home with you. And

727
00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:26.000
it was missing from the office. But it also was

728
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:29.199
not present in the Cooper's home either. And I also

729
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:32.719
heard something that if you were using this technology, the

730
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:35.639
phone call can only be twenty three seconds long, and

731
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.840
the phone call Brad made was thirty six seconds or

732
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.079
something like that. Okay, So Brad didn't testify, but his

733
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.960
seven hour deposition was played in court. I watched parts

734
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:50.119
of the deposition an old boy. It was dry. Yeah,

735
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:52.800
it was tough to get through. Yeah. An FBI agent

736
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:56.920
confirmed that Brad had intercepted emails from Nancy's account, including

737
00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:00.199
messages from her attorney, friend's family, and an old boy.

738
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:04.880
Emails between Brad and a frenchwoman were also found. Brad's

739
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.880
NBA graduating class took a trip to Paris, where he

740
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:11.000
met a woman that classmates recall him spending a lot

741
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:14.039
of time with Nancy's laptop, which was kept in the

742
00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:17.039
kitchen had been used on the morning of her disappearance,

743
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:20.320
as well as the following morning. Brad had looked up

744
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:23.920
news articles related to Nancy's disappearance and gone to the

745
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:28.559
website web Sluice. But on Brad's computer, a search that

746
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:31.320
he'd done on the afternoon of July eleventh, the day

747
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:35.719
before Nancy disappeared, changed everything. He viewed and zoomed in

748
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.480
on a satellite aerial view of a fielding drive in Carrie,

749
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:44.159
North Carolina on Google Maps, the exact location where Nancy's

750
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.039
body was found.

751
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:45.559
Oh boy.

752
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:50.239
The courtroom sat in stunned silence as the prosecutor dropped

753
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.880
the bombshell. The defense didn't have much legroom, but pointed

754
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.760
out no cookies from Google Maps were on Brad's computer.

755
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.239
Bought cookies are super easy to delete. They all also

756
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:03.639
suggested that someone could have planted the evidence or hacked

757
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:07.039
into his computer. Also bookmarked on his computer was a

758
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:11.480
website A practical Guide to Suicide We'll be back after

759
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:12.000
a break.

760
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:24.039
On Tuesday, April nineteenth, the defense began their case. They

761
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:26.440
knew they needed to clean up the Google Map search

762
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:30.199
of Fielding drive, the most damning evidence against Brad. They

763
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:32.760
claimed that his laptop had not been powered down when

764
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.880
seized by police, and for those twenty seven hours it

765
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.800
was vulnerable to hacking and other files could have been

766
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:42.039
tampered with as well. In fact, six hundred and ninety

767
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:44.360
two files were found to have been modified.

768
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:47.800
Okay, this is a question for you because I am

769
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:52.400
not a computer person. But files are constantly being updated

770
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:56.280
on your computer, whether you're doing the updating or not.

771
00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:59.559
Correct it depends on what kind of files. It's hard

772
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:02.840
to say six hundred and ninety two generic files, but yeah,

773
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:05.840
definitely things are changing on your computer all the time,

774
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:07.159
whether you're doing anything or not.

775
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:11.000
Does that seem like an unusually high amount though not

776
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:13.400
not really necessarily right.

777
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.440
Yeah, it's hard to say without more information, but it

778
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:18.440
seems like it's certainly possible that that could be the case.

779
00:41:19.119 --> 00:41:22.440
The police could have framed him. Rosemary' zednik and a

780
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:26.599
few others testified about seeing women jogging that looked like Nancy.

781
00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:29.639
And allegedly there was this mysterious van. There's always a

782
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:34.440
mysterious vand I say, and there were two Hispanic men

783
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:36.800
in the van, so you know they were up to

784
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:37.199
no good.

785
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:42.519
Allegedly, several police officers disputed Rosemary's claim and remembered talking

786
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.159
to her, but found her to be not credible.

787
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:49.360
One thing that police pointed to was that Rosemary was

788
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:52.400
insistent that the person that the person she saw jogging

789
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:56.760
had an iPod, and Nancy never ran with an iPod.

790
00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:01.559
Oh. Interesting surveillance video from Maylie of Nancy, Bella, and

791
00:42:01.639 --> 00:42:05.159
Katie at the grocery store resurfaced. It was likely after

792
00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:07.800
they had left the pool after spending the day with friends.

793
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.480
As Nancy walked out of the store, it was clear

794
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:13.280
that she hadn't been wearing the diamond pendant that her

795
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:16.719
friends had testified. She never took off. And this is

796
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:21.440
another bombshell. Detective Jim Young accidentally deleted the contents of

797
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:25.480
Nancy's BlackBerry. Was it an accident? Could there have been

798
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:28.880
evidence of an affair or other exculpatory evidence.

799
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:31.400
Okay, this is another question for you because I know

800
00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:33.199
it was one hundred years ago, but you owned a

801
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.440
BlackBerry and I had heard that they are very hard

802
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:37.199
to delete.

803
00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:40.280
I have no idea, I have no recollection of that.

804
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:43.000
That seems like that would be a pretty big mistake,

805
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:44.840
But I don't know how easy your heart it would

806
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:45.559
be to do that.

807
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.920
But then in the police department's defense, they also said, well,

808
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.320
we have that data from the phone company, so so.

809
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:55.920
It didn't really matter if it was deleted because they

810
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:56.599
could get the data.

811
00:42:56.679 --> 00:42:56.800
End.

812
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.480
That's what they were saying. But who knows, yeh.

813
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:02.360
On April twenty eighth, the jury sent the judge the

814
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:06.199
following note, quote, please encourage the attorneys to use time

815
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:10.280
more wisely. We are hoping to finish this soon. Please

816
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.880
ask them to have their witnesses ready to go. We

817
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.199
want our lives back. That's really wild.

818
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:18.079
Isn't that funny. I've never heard of a jury doing

819
00:43:18.119 --> 00:43:20.719
it before, and I love them for it. I mean,

820
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.519
the trial had gone on for about two months, and

821
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:26.119
I don't believe anyone thought it was going to last

822
00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:28.159
as long as it did. These jurors were just like,

823
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:31.679
they're frustrate. I think there was a lot of you know,

824
00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:35.039
I went through it really quickly, relatively quickly, but I

825
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:37.159
think there was a lot of technical testimony.

826
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:41.239
Yeah that's enough. Yeah. The defense rested the next day.

827
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:44.400
The judge denied their request to dismiss the case.

828
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:48.400
On Tuesday, May third, the eight week trial entered its

829
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:52.320
last phase after closing arguments. The jury was made up

830
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:56.679
of ten women and two men. That's a very woman

831
00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:57.639
heavy jury, right.

832
00:43:57.679 --> 00:43:58.239
Yeah, it is.

833
00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:01.360
On the second day, after five hours, they requested to

834
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:05.159
see several pieces of evidence, including photographs of Nancy's body

835
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:09.800
from behind, three photographs taken by police of the Cooper's bedroom,

836
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:13.719
cell phone records from both of the Cooper's phones, customer

837
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.760
records from two grocery stores, and the videotape deposition of

838
00:44:17.800 --> 00:44:21.239
Brad Cooper from October two thousand and eight. This indicated

839
00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:23.559
to everyone waiting that they were struggling to come to

840
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:27.079
a consensus. But on the third day, after about nine

841
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.599
hours of deliberation, they reached a verdict. What do you

842
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:31.039
think their.

843
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:33.280
Verdict was, I am going to go with guilty.

844
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:36.800
Guilty of first degree murder, sentenced to life in prison

845
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:41.159
without the possibility of parole. Brad sat emotionless, as did

846
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.039
his parents behind him. On the other side of the courtroom.

847
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.239
The Rent's family wept and held each other. The jury

848
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:49.800
members wiped tears from their faces as they watched the

849
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:54.239
emotional celebration. Judge Paul Gessner spoke directly to the jury.

850
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.679
He implored them not to second guess their verdict or

851
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.800
questioned the process based on what they heard in the

852
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:03.880
media in the days and weeks to come. Quote and

853
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:07.400
certainly don't concern yourself with the opinions of the bloggers

854
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.519
and the comments to the news stories. You heard all

855
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:14.199
this evidence. You had the opportunity to judge the credibility

856
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:18.280
of each witness firsthand. Your opinion is the only opinion

857
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:23.360
that counts. The anonymous, uninformed opinions of others are completely irrelevant.

858
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.920
Though that was a very good statement, because it's true.

859
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:30.280
I think we always second guess a verdict of jury's opinion.

860
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:33.199
But they sat through eight weeks of testimony.

861
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:37.599
An appeal was immediately filed. After the verdict, Donna and

862
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:41.440
Gary approached Terry and Carrol Cooper, Brad's parents to offer

863
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:46.119
their condolences. The Cooper's reserved and quiet left without responding

864
00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:50.239
to the Rence's kind gesture. Before leaving, Donna generously told

865
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.840
Carol to reach out so they could arrange a visit

866
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:54.320
for Bella and Katie.

867
00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:56.800
That is really nice that they did that.

868
00:45:57.000 --> 00:45:57.199
I know.

869
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:01.280
Gary and Donna addressed the media outside these quote, the

870
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:04.159
relief is palpable. Today. We feel that the love and

871
00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:06.760
nurturing and care that we've given Bella and Katie has

872
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.639
been rewarded, and we're going to be blessed with being

873
00:46:09.679 --> 00:46:13.159
able to continue the care for those wonderful children. The

874
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:16.159
tragedy is that you have two young lives that were wasted,

875
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:19.039
Nancy who was no longer with us, and Brad who

876
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:23.519
now faces an elongated period of incarcederation. And I just

877
00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:26.719
feel sad for both of those. There's no particular joy

878
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:30.920
in either of those for us, Donna said, quote, I

879
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:33.400
just felt her presence. I was happy that this day

880
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:36.440
finally came. I am happy for the little girls and

881
00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:40.360
happy for our family. Gary continued, We as a family,

882
00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:43.000
I think a long time ago made up our mind

883
00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:46.360
that we would not deal with ourselves as victims, but

884
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.519
rather deal with ourselves as survivors. We're going to go

885
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:51.880
home and pick up our lives. It's been a long

886
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:52.679
run for us.

887
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:55.239
Really do seem like a lovely family.

888
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.960
Yeah, they really do. Do you have reasonable doubt as

889
00:46:58.000 --> 00:46:59.239
to Brad's guilt.

890
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:01.280
Based on what I've I've heard so far, I would

891
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:02.000
say no, I don't.

892
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.719
Okay, let's go over the evidence one more time. First,

893
00:47:04.719 --> 00:47:08.280
we'll go with the exculpatory evidence. There is a lack

894
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:11.840
of physical evidence linking Brad to the crime scene. Right,

895
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.880
but Nancy was strangled, and I think when that happens,

896
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:20.000
there is little evidence that's left behind. Right, There's no blood,

897
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:22.559
there was no sign of a struggle in the home,

898
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.679
although Brad did have time to clean up. Right. Yeah,

899
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:29.679
the GPS map controversy. The defense argued that the laptop

900
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:32.679
used to make this search had been in police custody

901
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:35.599
and the file could have been altered or planted.

902
00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:37.400
That seems like a real long shot to me.

903
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:41.280
Will be the sheriff or whoever said we don't know

904
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:41.800
how to do that?

905
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.159
I know they actually they accidentally deleted a BlackBerry. I

906
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:47.039
don't get the sense that they're the most technically.

907
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:51.880
Did they accidentally deleted the that's the accusation. Sure, But

908
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:55.079
also if they were going to plant evidence, wouldn't they

909
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:58.199
plant more damning evidence than just you know, this file that.

910
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:00.360
Was pretty damning. But yeah, I would think they would

911
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:01.039
do other things.

912
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:04.519
Yeah, police were accused of tunnel vision not following up

913
00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:08.679
on other potential leads. But the only other lead was

914
00:48:08.719 --> 00:48:10.639
really there were a few people that thought that they

915
00:48:10.679 --> 00:48:13.360
could have seen Nancy. But again, like you pointed out,

916
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:17.320
it's like Lacy Peterson, Nancy was well known in the community,

917
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:20.559
and no one that knew Nancy saw Nancy. People that

918
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:23.239
didn't know Nancy said, well, I saw a woman that

919
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:24.039
looked like Nancy.

920
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.440
Yeah, and it's sound like the other possible suspect, the

921
00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:30.960
guy that she apparently had a fling with, he had

922
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.360
an alibi as well, right, and they checked that out,

923
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:34.960
so it's not like they ignored it.

924
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:38.199
Yeah, and I forgot to mention it. But he had

925
00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:42.280
the morning of July twelfth, he was with his children,

926
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:46.519
but the night before he was with the woman that

927
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:48.880
Brad had the affair with, Heather Mature.

928
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:52.280
So John Pearson that was his name, right, the guy

929
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:56.280
that Nancy had a fling with allegedly, Yeah, he was

930
00:48:56.880 --> 00:48:59.159
with Heather. He was with Heather in a romantic way

931
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:00.119
or just they happened.

932
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:02.440
To Oh I think it was a well romantic way. Yeah.

933
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:05.719
Wow. The town of Carrie, North Carolina, is just a

934
00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:07.880
hotbed of stuff going.

935
00:49:07.719 --> 00:49:12.000
On, right exactly, And you could question what the motive was.

936
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:16.079
It seems pretty clear, but Brad really had no history

937
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:19.800
of physical violence. But we've seen that before too in short,

938
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:23.000
the reasonable doubt arose from the lack of direct evidence,

939
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:29.559
questionable digital evidence, potential police misconduct, and plausible alternative explanations.

940
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:33.119
Even though Brad was convicted in twenty eleven, these lingering

941
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:35.840
doubts are part of why some still believe that he

942
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:37.880
may have been wrongfully convicted.

943
00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:40.400
This case is very similar to the case I am

944
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:42.800
currently working out that we are going to record after

945
00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:45.599
we get back from vacation. But to me, you know,

946
00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:48.639
the bottom line is you can have a circumstantial case

947
00:49:48.679 --> 00:49:52.639
that doesn't have direct forensic evidence tying someone to the

948
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:56.039
crime scene or the victim and still have a strong case.

949
00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:58.440
And to me, this still seems like a strong case.

950
00:49:58.480 --> 00:49:59.639
But I know you're going to go over.

951
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:02.960
Let's go over the inculpatory evidence real quick. So remember

952
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:06.599
that Nancy's blood alcohol level was point zero six, which

953
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:09.679
to me seems like it's too high for her to

954
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:11.360
wake them and say, yeah, I'm going to go for

955
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:14.719
a run today. And Brad did lie about her going

956
00:50:14.840 --> 00:50:17.360
for a run with her friend. The cleaning of his

957
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:21.360
trunk and certain areas of the house was a little suspicious. Yeah,

958
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:23.920
her sports prop pulled up over her breast to me,

959
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:26.480
seemed like he was trying to dress her and just

960
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:30.000
kind of gave up. Right, He was very controlling in

961
00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:34.159
a lot of ways. He washed Nancy's dress. The Google

962
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:36.320
map search, if you're to believe that he actually did

963
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:40.000
it Google map search, to me, is a little suspect

964
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:43.599
because he only did it for like forty five seconds.

965
00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:47.199
How long would you need to do a search like that, really?

966
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:50.079
I mean, yeah, maybe I would think it would take

967
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:53.400
a few minutes to zero in on the area. Yeah,

968
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:58.880
maybe Brad didn't really cooperate with the investigation. And Nancy's

969
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:02.239
shoes were the house where she had two pairs of shoes.

970
00:51:02.840 --> 00:51:05.719
The case, in my opinion, hate hinges on whether or

971
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:09.400
not Nancy went for a run, and again, in my opinion,

972
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:12.400
I don't think that she went for a run. Again,

973
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.760
to me, the most damning pieces of evidence are her

974
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:19.159
blood alcohol level and the two pairs of shoes that

975
00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:19.960
were at her house.

976
00:51:20.119 --> 00:51:22.360
Well and the fact that Brad said she went for

977
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:26.360
a run with Carrie and Carrie said no, I never

978
00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:27.079
went for a run.

979
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:30.400
Like they maybe could have gotten their wires crossed. I mean,

980
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:32.400
they weren't getting a lawng grade. It's not they had

981
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:35.000
you know, these huge conversations every morning. Well, tell me

982
00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:38.239
what you have planned for today, you know, probably terse

983
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:40.320
you know, right on the knee to.

984
00:51:40.280 --> 00:51:41.920
Know basis, Yeah, I suppose so.

985
00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:45.280
Brad's appeal argued that he had not received a fair trial,

986
00:51:45.400 --> 00:51:49.679
primarily because the judge excluded key defense witnesses who could

987
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.719
have testified about the possibility that his laptop had been

988
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:56.920
tampered with. The defense suggested that the incriminated Google searches

989
00:51:57.039 --> 00:52:00.760
could have been planted, potentially by law enforcement, the FBI,

990
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:06.119
or even a former vindictive lover. Expert witness testimony supporting

991
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:09.199
this theory was not permitted by the judge during the trial.

992
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:12.960
In April twenty thirteen, oral arguments were heard by a

993
00:52:13.039 --> 00:52:16.519
three judge panel to grant Brad Cooper a new trial.

994
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:20.559
Five months later, the appellate court released their ruling. Their

995
00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:24.039
decision read quote. The Google Maps files recovered from the

996
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:28.199
defendant's laptop were perhaps the most important evidence admitted in

997
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:32.199
this trial. We hold that the court abused its discretion

998
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:35.559
in excluding Ward from testifying. That's the person who is

999
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:38.599
going to testify, relying on the state's own evidence to

1000
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:41.280
his opinion that the Google Maps files recovered from the

1001
00:52:41.320 --> 00:52:45.920
defendant's laptop had been tampered with. By unanimous decision, his

1002
00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:49.480
conviction was overturned and Brad was granted a new trial

1003
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:54.280
based on Judge Guestner's limiting expert testimony in the first trial.

1004
00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:57.159
Oh well, as much as I believe that Brad is guilty,

1005
00:52:57.280 --> 00:52:59.719
I can't disagree with that. Like if he didn't allow

1006
00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:02.920
an expert witness to refute the most important evidence in

1007
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:04.360
the trial, that seems wrong.

1008
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:08.519
I agree completely. You know when an expert witness will

1009
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:11.719
get on the stand sometimes and they'll go over their

1010
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:15.039
resume and then the judge can decide whether they're an

1011
00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:18.079
expert or not. In this case, the judge didn't allow that.

1012
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:22.119
On January thirtieth, twenty fourteen, five and a half years

1013
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.000
after Nancy's murder, Brad once again appeared in a Wake

1014
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:28.800
County courtroom at a pre trial hearing, looking softer, grayer

1015
00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:31.599
and balding. On September eighth, as a new trial was

1016
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:36.239
set to begin, Brad Cooper pleaded guilty to second to murder.

1017
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:40.679
What he would serve twelve to fifteen years, including time served,

1018
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:44.039
and give up parental rights to his honors permanently.

1019
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:44.960
I am shocked.

1020
00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:47.559
Yeah, the Rentz family was okay with the plea deal

1021
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:50.360
if it meant that Brad would accept responsibility and Bella

1022
00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:54.119
and Katie could finally be legally adopted by Krista and Jim.

1023
00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:58.679
Judge Gessner asked Brad, quote, do you personally plead guilty

1024
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:02.360
to the charge that I have doned? Brad replied yes,

1025
00:54:03.000 --> 00:54:05.599
Did you in fact kill Nancy Cooper and dump her

1026
00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:10.079
body on Fielding Drive? Brad paused yes, The judge said,

1027
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:12.719
in reference to Brad allowing his children to be adopted

1028
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:15.639
by Krista and Jim in return for a shorter sentence,

1029
00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:18.960
It just bothers me that you have an individual who

1030
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:22.960
will apparently bargain away their rights as a parent. I

1031
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:24.480
find that repulsive.

1032
00:54:24.679 --> 00:54:25.920
That is pretty repulsive.

1033
00:54:26.360 --> 00:54:28.760
I'm just glad that the girls could finally be adopted

1034
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.360
and be done with Brad and move on with their lives.

1035
00:54:31.480 --> 00:54:32.320
Yeah. Absolutely.

1036
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:35.719
Nancy was a loving mother, daughter, sister, and twin. She

1037
00:54:35.840 --> 00:54:38.199
was a runner and a coach. She loved to help

1038
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:41.519
others meet their fitness goals. She made friends wherever she went.

1039
00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:45.519
Her superpower was her ability to make other people laugh, smile,

1040
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:49.840
and feel comfortable. Rest in Peace Nancy. After Nancy's death,

1041
00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.079
many of her friends and family in Canada and the

1042
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:55.599
US began noticing butterflies. They were removed to start a

1043
00:54:55.599 --> 00:54:59.119
foundation called a Butterfly Fund, helping other women in dangerous

1044
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:02.239
or volatile marria. They organized a gala and a run

1045
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:05.639
in Nancy's honor in hopes of saving other women. The

1046
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:09.280
fund is no longer active. There is another organization in

1047
00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:13.519
the community called Interact of Wake County. We will donate

1048
00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:16.599
to in honor of Michelle Young and Nancy Cooper. In

1049
00:55:16.639 --> 00:55:20.960
November twenty twenty, twelve years after Nancy's death, Brad Cooper

1050
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:25.119
was released from Mountain View Correctional Facility in Spruce Behind,

1051
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:29.599
North Carolina. He was deported back to Canada. Wow, not shocking.

1052
00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:32.159
I'm going to end with the words of Amanda Lamb,

1053
00:55:32.239 --> 00:55:35.000
who wrote my main source for this case, Love Lies,

1054
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:37.280
a true story of marriage and murder in the suburbs.

1055
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:40.360
Happy was definitely not the word to describe the ending

1056
00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:43.679
to this story. It's a cautionary tale, a tragic tale,

1057
00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:46.599
a tale that leaves more questions than answers. It's a

1058
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:49.760
trail of broken hearts and a litany of secrets. Only

1059
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:52.920
two people know the truth. One is dead and the

1060
00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:55.280
other won't gamble his silence for freedom.

1061
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:58.000
It is a really tragic tale, and I'm not so

1062
00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:00.760
sure that justice was served in the case with the

1063
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:02.599
amount of time that he spent in prison.

1064
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:03.239
Twelve years.

1065
00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:05.480
Yeah, it's really not enough.

1066
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:08.119
There are no winners when it comes to domestic violence.

1067
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:10.719
Even when a victim finds the strength to leave, the

1068
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:15.119
emotional and psychological scars remain, often lasting a lifetime, not

1069
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.679
just for them, but for their children as well. We

1070
00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:19.960
need to do more to educate people about the warning

1071
00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:23.400
signs early on, before control becomes abuse and love turns

1072
00:56:23.440 --> 00:56:26.880
to fear. Too often, innocence is lost and childhoods are

1073
00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:31.079
stolen in the silence. Awareness is the first step towards prevention.

1074
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:33.159
Very well said, do.

1075
00:56:33.119 --> 00:56:34.440
You believe that Brad is guilty?

1076
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:35.920
I do, yes, Yes.

1077
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:38.159
Do you think that he served enough time?

1078
00:56:38.719 --> 00:56:41.280
No? Absolutely not. I mean that was the no, I

1079
00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:43.480
mean yeah, that was the deal that he got though, right,

1080
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:46.440
it was he was released because he served the time

1081
00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:50.039
that he agreed they both agreed to. Yeah, but not enough.

1082
00:56:50.360 --> 00:56:53.480
What do you think was the motivation for the prosecution

1083
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:54.960
to make the deal? I mean, I kind of know

1084
00:56:55.000 --> 00:56:58.039
Brad's motivation for taking the deal because he had been

1085
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:00.920
found guilty once before and he probably expected to be

1086
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:03.119
found guilty again. But why do you think the prosecution

1087
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:03.760
offered that.

1088
00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:06.880
I think their primary objective was if he was willing

1089
00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:11.360
to admit guilt and Bella and Katie would be able

1090
00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:14.639
to be adopted and move on with their life. Yeah,

1091
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:16.440
that was their objective, right, and.

1092
00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:19.440
That makes sense. But I also have to wonder if

1093
00:57:19.480 --> 00:57:22.800
they felt like their case wasn't as strong as it

1094
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.639
needed to be a lot of times when it was

1095
00:57:25.719 --> 00:57:27.880
not a slam dunk. Yeah, so they were probably a

1096
00:57:27.920 --> 00:57:29.760
little bit worried that they wouldn't win.

1097
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:32.199
I almost forgot. We have a clip of Krista talking

1098
00:57:32.199 --> 00:57:33.760
about the girls. Do you want to play that real quick?

1099
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:41.719
They're doing good. They they know, they know what happened.

1100
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:47.639
But with Nancy Bella especially, and it destroyed her for

1101
00:57:47.719 --> 00:57:52.039
many years and she's she's gotten over it, she's moved

1102
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:59.400
past thankfully. I've got amazing family to help and they

1103
00:57:59.440 --> 00:57:59.960
got through it.

1104
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:02.719
Does this mean now that their dads out of their

1105
00:58:02.719 --> 00:58:03.400
lives forever?

1106
00:58:03.679 --> 00:58:07.239
Yes, it's amazing.

1107
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:09.079
It's total relief.

1108
00:58:11.000 --> 00:58:16.880
He doesn't deserve them, he doesn't deserve to know them.

1109
00:58:17.239 --> 00:58:20.239
I'm going to get emotional talking about this, but there

1110
00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:24.360
was a beauty to Christa ending up with her sister's

1111
00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:28.559
kids when she couldn't have kids, and being her identical twin.

1112
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:31.320
I just thought that was, you know, as sad as

1113
00:58:31.400 --> 00:58:34.840
it is, it's really lovely that they were raised by

1114
00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:35.360
their aunts.

1115
00:58:36.000 --> 00:58:38.400
It is a little bit of like poetic justice in

1116
00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:40.280
some ways. Do we know? What do you know when

1117
00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:42.599
that clip was from? It sounds like it was from.

1118
00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:45.840
I think it was from years ago. I did see

1119
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:47.920
pictures of the girls, and all I'm going to say

1120
00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:51.360
is they're stunning, and they seem happy, healthy, and they

1121
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:53.760
both seem to be very athletic like their mom.

1122
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:55.719
Yeah, it's how old are they at this point?

1123
00:58:56.039 --> 00:58:58.960
Their college age? It seemed like there was a lot

1124
00:58:59.000 --> 00:59:02.840
of activity in the neighborhood that the Coopers lived in.

1125
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:04.880
What do you mean by activity.

1126
00:59:05.079 --> 00:59:06.599
Since this case? And I don't know if it has

1127
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:08.880
anything to do with affairs, but I think at least

1128
00:59:08.920 --> 00:59:12.800
two of the friends that Nancy had have divorced as well.

1129
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:15.119
It just seemed like there was a lot of affairs

1130
00:59:15.159 --> 00:59:16.840
going on, a lot of people sleeping together.

1131
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:18.519
Yeah, it seems like that, and the fact that you

1132
00:59:18.559 --> 00:59:21.800
pointed out the guy that Nancy apparently had a fling

1133
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:25.360
with was seeing the woman that Brad had a fling

1134
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:28.239
with too. It's just, yeah, it's a lot going on there.

1135
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:37.760
Yeah. Absolutely, Well, I'm slamming my laptop shot and we

1136
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:41.159
are officially on vacation. You have another day at work, but.

1137
00:59:41.159 --> 00:59:43.920
Yeah, pretty close. I am very excited about that.

1138
00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:48.559
I am wondering how being a true crime podcaster has

1139
00:59:48.679 --> 00:59:51.960
changed you. Do you look at people's relationships differently.

1140
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:55.960
I don't know if I look at people's relationships differently,

1141
00:59:56.039 --> 01:00:01.239
but I do think about the possibilities of occurring, Yeah,

1142
01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:03.920
in relationships more than I used to. I think I'm

1143
01:00:03.920 --> 01:00:07.599
more aware of the potential of violence and things like that.

1144
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:11.000
Yeah, I agree, that's what I feel. The same way.

1145
01:00:11.519 --> 01:00:14.239
Like all these unassuming guys that just seem like normal

1146
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:17.360
guys that you work with or whatever. That they're capable

1147
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.320
of killing their wives is kind of shocking to me.

1148
01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:21.159
Yeah, it really.

1149
01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:24.119
It's not like it's common, but we make it seem

1150
01:00:24.159 --> 01:00:26.320
like it's common because we tell a story every week.

1151
01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:29.239
I mean, it's common enough. It's more common than it

1152
01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:31.880
should be, for sure. But yeah, part of it is,

1153
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.199
I think because we talk about it so much, we're

1154
01:00:34.599 --> 01:00:36.920
you know, it's like when you see a yellow car,

1155
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:39.360
then all of a sudden, you start seeing yellow cars everywhere.

1156
01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:43.119
Right, Well, I hope we play the yellow car.

1157
01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:46.280
Game, Banana. That's great.

1158
01:00:46.440 --> 01:00:48.039
We used to do when our kids are little. Now

1159
01:00:48.039 --> 01:00:50.639
it really anoys them, but once in a while, randomly

1160
01:00:50.639 --> 01:00:52.079
when we're driving, Elsie Banana.

1161
01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:52.559
Yeah.

1162
01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:52.920
Yeah.

1163
01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:55.199
I think. The other thing for me is I have

1164
01:00:55.280 --> 01:01:00.119
become a little desensitized to things that should really disturb me.

1165
01:01:00.239 --> 01:01:05.119
They still disturb me, but I'm less inclined to.

1166
01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:09.400
Get like humans are capable of really horrible behavior.

1167
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:12.000
Yeah, it really is. And there was I was looking

1168
01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:14.360
at a there's a book. It's like I can'mer what

1169
01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:16.719
it's called, but it's like the it's like the police

1170
01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:21.639
Manual for homicide Investigation. It's like the most well respected manual.

1171
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:24.039
And I happened to download it because I wanted to

1172
01:01:24.079 --> 01:01:26.400
look up at a couple of things about police procedure

1173
01:01:26.400 --> 01:01:28.559
and things like that. And there are the most horrible

1174
01:01:28.599 --> 01:01:31.800
photos in this book. And yeah, they disturbed me, but

1175
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:34.599
they didn't. It wasn't as disturbing as it should have

1176
01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:37.039
been to me. And that bothered me actually, that I

1177
01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:39.559
was like, oh, this should really be like I should

1178
01:01:39.559 --> 01:01:42.440
be putting this book down and not looking at this

1179
01:01:42.480 --> 01:01:44.079
because it was not good.

1180
01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:46.440
I still tried carefully. I don't like to see autopsy

1181
01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.440
photos or crime scene photos. Yeah, I think they're still

1182
01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:52.360
pretty disturbing to me. I'm a pretty humble person. But

1183
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:54.079
last night I had a personal win that I want

1184
01:01:54.119 --> 01:01:57.519
to share with everyone. I had my three hundred Peloton hide.

1185
01:01:57.679 --> 01:01:59.880
Wow. Three hundred that's really good.

1186
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:02.840
Yeah, I'm pretty I'm pretty happy. But it's not as

1187
01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:05.119
impressive as it sounds, honestly, because a lot of times

1188
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:08.440
I'll do two rides and some of them are like

1189
01:02:08.519 --> 01:02:09.880
five minute cool down rides.

1190
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:10.880
I think it's impressied.

1191
01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:13.239
Yeah, I was really happy, and I beat my record

1192
01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:17.159
by like sixteen points, which almost literally killed me. But

1193
01:02:17.199 --> 01:02:19.320
I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. But

1194
01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:21.360
if you're thinking about getting a peloton, this is not

1195
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:24.920
an ad I wish it were. But I've had a

1196
01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:25.760
lot of fun with it.

1197
01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:27.880
Yeah, I have not a lot of fun with.

1198
01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:29.639
It, but it's a great way to work out.

1199
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:33.159
I've not been quite as diligent as you.

1200
01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:34.400
Even nowhere near as diligent.

1201
01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:37.280
As but I think I'm about halfway, maybe not quite.

1202
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:39.639
Yeah, but you're you're yeah, Yeah, I'm trying.

1203
01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:41.440
But I enjoy it. I really do like it. I

1204
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:43.239
just need to like make time for it.

1205
01:02:43.400 --> 01:02:45.639
Yeah, if you have any questions about it, feel free

1206
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:49.119
to ask us. But yeah, that was I think. I

1207
01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:51.599
am twenty six weeks in a row of working out

1208
01:02:51.639 --> 01:02:54.159
three or more days, so that also is like kind

1209
01:02:54.199 --> 01:02:55.039
of a big deal for me.

1210
01:02:55.239 --> 01:02:58.960
Yeah, I'm using congratulations, thank you. I am also a

1211
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:02.880
humble person. I am the most humble person that you

1212
01:03:02.920 --> 01:03:04.480
would probably have ever met.

1213
01:03:04.599 --> 01:03:08.760
We all know that. I just want to ask, Well,

1214
01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:10.880
it's funny because you'd like to tell us all how

1215
01:03:11.039 --> 01:03:13.239
intelligent you are all the time. And that is a

1216
01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:17.079
characteristic of a lot of men who murder. Is you know,

1217
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:20.000
men that think they're very smart and they can outsmart

1218
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.280
the police. And I know you well enough to know

1219
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:24.800
that you think about things like this all the time,

1220
01:03:24.920 --> 01:03:27.159
and you were pretty sure that you could get away

1221
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:28.159
with the perfect murder.

1222
01:03:28.400 --> 01:03:33.360
I could totally I am joking. I know I'm not.

1223
01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:35.639
That's not the case at all. I don't like to

1224
01:03:35.639 --> 01:03:37.599
talk about how smart I am. You're the one who

1225
01:03:37.639 --> 01:03:38.599
always brings.

1226
01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:40.239
It up because I like to roast you and I

1227
01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:41.360
try to keep you home.

1228
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.599
You certainly do.

1229
01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:45.039
I'm sorry I forgot to mention this when we were

1230
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:46.840
talking about the case and we try to end on

1231
01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:50.039
something that is not the case. But I did want to.

1232
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:53.280
I mentioned this my Amanda Lamb source, but there was

1233
01:03:53.320 --> 01:03:56.119
another source that I read. I didn't read the whole thing.

1234
01:03:56.239 --> 01:03:57.960
I couldn't get through much of it because it was

1235
01:03:58.039 --> 01:04:02.719
so one sided. Framed and examination of the Nancy Cooper

1236
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:06.760
murder case by Lynn Blanchard. She also wrote a book

1237
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:10.599
about Michelle Young that was very similar. She defended Jason

1238
01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:15.199
Young and in her book she also defends Brad Cooper.

1239
01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:17.320
So I think she must have lived in the area

1240
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:19.440
and she was just really consumed with these cases. But

1241
01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:21.480
it was so one sided. It just kind of.

1242
01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:24.360
Drives me crazy. Yeah, some people just want they just

1243
01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:27.679
want to take a contrary view and be well contra I.

1244
01:04:27.639 --> 01:04:30.239
Think she believes what she's saying, really, but.

1245
01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:33.519
Yeah, just hard to imagine believing that.

1246
01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:36.079
But well, thank you so much for listening.

1247
01:04:36.679 --> 01:04:38.920
Yes, thank you very much. We appreciate each and every

1248
01:04:38.960 --> 01:04:42.760
one of you. Please rate, review, follow, and subscribe. Find

1249
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.559
us on social media and YouTube, or send us an

1250
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:49.719
email at Lovemarykill at gmail dot com. Please consider supporting

1251
01:04:49.800 --> 01:04:53.119
us on Patreon dot com slash Lovemrykill. We have one

1252
01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:56.159
tier five dollars a month for early ad free access

1253
01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:59.280
and a monthly bonus episode until next time.

1254
01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:41.079
Don't Kill your Wife and Don't Kill Your Husband.

1255
01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:49.679
In November twenty twenty, twelve years after Nancy's murder, Rad

1256
01:05:49.760 --> 01:05:57.320
Cooper was released from Mountain Dew, Mountain yah it.

1257
01:05:57.679 --> 01:05:58.119
That was good.

1258
01:05:58.239 --> 01:05:58.760
That's funny.