Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka (The Ken and Barbie killers) - Part 1

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Hi, I'm Tina and I'm Rich. And if there's one thing we've learned

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in over twenty years of marriage,
it's that there's some days you'll feel like

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killing your wife and some days you'll
feel like killing your husband. Welcome to

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love, Mary Kill Hey Rich,
Hey Tina. How are you. I'm

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doing pretty good. How are you? I'm good. We were getting this

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one in by the by the skin
of our teeth, of our teeth,

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that's that. I couldn't think of
it. I'm so tired. It's a

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weird phrase, it is. Yeah, I've been. I've been a little

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worried about you, a little worried
that this, this case is the one

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that's finally going to break you.
It came close, Yeah, right through

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it. Yet we are not through
it yet. I'm hoping to say goodbye

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to it today. It's a little
long. It's going to be two parts

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because we've never done a three part
I don't I don't think we planned to

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do any three parts. Had a
hard time sleep being this week, yeah,

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because I was up working late and
then really the case material just wait

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on me. So yesterday when I
was at Target, I bought the goalie

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Dreamy sleep gummies and I think it
was a combination of not sleeping well all

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week and taking this. But man, I'm still I feel like I'm still

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not awake. I made you take
one and you seem fine. Yeah,

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I mean I slept good, but
I feel I feel fine today. I'm

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not gruggy. Well, And you
asked me what was in them, and

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I said, lemon balm, botanicals, magnesium, and vitamin D. But

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then I missed the melatonin. There
was there is melatonin in them, but

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ACKed me out pretty good. Well, he probably needed it, I think.

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But yeah, I think it was
a combination of just being kind of

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sleep deprived and yeah, so I'm
not I guess I recommend them. Saw

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the Barbie movie yesterday, oh yeah, which is a lead into our case

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today. Oh Ken and Barbie Killers. Oh boy. Yeah, I'm so.

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I'm still dumb. And I thought
oh would be cute because I didn't

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know about the case, and I
was like, I don't know what I

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thought it was, but it's horrible. Yeah, I know, I don't

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I don't know. I know a
little bit about it just from years ago.

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I remember hearing about it, and
it's one of the most horrible cases

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I remember every yea, if you
thought about doing this case, bread about

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it, and then decided not to
do it, very smartly, right exactly.

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I go for the simpler, the
easier cases that are true, but

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this one is particularly horrible, which
leads me to reading you this content.

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Warning listener, discretion is advised for
today's episode. While most of our episodes

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contain violent and graphic content, today's
episode is particularly disturbing, containing graphic sexual

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content, including underage rape and extreme
domestic violence. Please listen with care.

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Good advice. Oh yeah, so
our Canadian friends, this case occur,

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you know, happens in in Canada, not that far from us, really,

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So I know that Canadians know this
case super well. And I think

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if you my impression that if you
go to Canada and you tap anyone on

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the shoulder and say, hey,
can you tell me about Paul Bernardo and

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Carlo Homoka, they'll punch you in
the face and be like, I don't

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ever want to talk about that again. So Canadian friends, I totally understand.

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Just skip this one. You skipped
this one, It's okay because I

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know you know the story well.
I don't know what I would compare it

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to in the United States, because
I mean Canada, there's there's in general

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just less violence, but maybe Ted
Bundy. Yeah, kind of on that

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level of fame, yeah, or
infamy. Yeah. Well. Paul and

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Paul Bernardo and Carlo Homoka were dubbed
the Kennon barbie Killers by the media because

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they were both attractive and blonde.
They were Canadian couple responsible for a series

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of horrifying crimes in the late nineteen
eighties and early nineteen nineties. They're attractive

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and seemingly normal appearance mass their depravity, and they engaged in a spree of

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kidnapping, sexual assaults, and murders, primarily targeting young women. The case

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gained significant media attention due to the
brutality of their crimes, Carla's controversial plea

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deal, and the shocking revelation that
she had been a willing participant in the

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heinous acts alongside her husband. The
Barbie Killer's case remains one of Canada's most

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notorious and disturbing criminal Sagas, I
just wanted to give you a little yeah,

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can't wait. Yeah, but we
haven't had snack time yet. Alight

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after after you've laid the groundwork there
and talked about how disturbing and horrible this

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is going to be. Let's let's
just take a quick break and have a

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snack. Instant, well, you
know, we gotta have her snack.

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So probably about a month ago,
I saw we're big fans of the Great

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British Great British Baking Show is a
great show. Yeah, okay, I

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didn't know. It depends on where
you watch it, and if you watch

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it in Europe it's called the Great
it's called something else I can't remember.

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Ba. Yeah, but we're big
fans of that show. And I saw

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on Instagram that Paul and Prue are
taste testing twinkies at Hohes, so we

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thought we would do that too,
and their reaction was like, oh,

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this is disgusting and we hate it. And yeah, So because this is

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a two parter, I thought we
do twinkies and one and the other one.

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I think we should do them both
and compare, because we should compare,

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or say who which one we prefer. I don't have a snack for

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the second episode, so let's just
do one and then we'll do the other

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and then we'll compare. All right, fine, I know everyone knows what

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a goddamn tweaky taste like. But
all right, we'll take a quick break.

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All right, So we tried the
twinkie, and I'll just say,

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I'm a twinkie man. You are
a twinkie manes, But no, I

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grew up. I love Twinkies and
I still enjoy them. You know.

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I have bought them over the years
here and there. I don't think I've

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eaten one in ten years. I'm
not a Twinkie fan. I bought them

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for you and the kids, for
lunches and whatever. But I have to

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say the twinkie was better than I
thought it was going to be. Kind

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a delightful light sponge to it.
Sponge is good, but it's the cream.

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The cream is well, yeah,
the cream is it's just kind of

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coach your mouth and it's kind of
gross. There's a lot of preservatives and

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stuff in there. I'm sure how
you think I still like them. So

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we've been doing some ad swaps with
some of our fellow hardworking podcasters, and

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we have one today from our friend
Debbie, Professor Debbie at True Crime University.

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And I love Debbie. I think
she does such a fabulous job.

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I love her voice, her content
is great. I love the fact that

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she gets into like the why of
why criminals do what they do kind of

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more of the psychology aspect of it, which I think is really interesting.

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Yeah, that's yeah, she's great. So let's let's run Debbi's promore real

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quick. So you like to listen
to people talk about crime, but did

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you ever wonder why criminals do the
things they do? Like what makes them

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tick? My name is Debbie and
I'm a professor at True Crime University.

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Join me in the classroom Thurst Days
wherever you get your podcasts for intellectual discussions

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about crime, psychology and why criminals
do what they do. See you there,

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So give Debbie listen. This morning
I listened to her Guy Family Murders

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Updated episode, and I think she's
great. So give Debbie listen. So

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we here at Love Mary Kill are
about to hit a very significant milestone for

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us. We're about four thousand downloads
away. So if you have to listen

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twice this week to our episode to
get us to the next one. Now,

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of just kidding, but it's pretty
exciting. It is. It's really

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way beyond what I think either of
us ever expected. Well, now people

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are gonna be like, oh,
they're gonna hit a billion downloads. It's

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it's much much, much much lower
than that. But to us, it's

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it's exciting, it's significant, and
as always, obviously it's all because of

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our awesome listeners who put up with
us. We have the best listeners.

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We have the best listeners and the
best cats. That just came into the

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room and I was going to mention
to our thunderstorms in the area again,

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Yeah, a lot of rain.
All right, Well, I guess I

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can't put it up any longer.
I think it's time. It's time.

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All right, We're all in this
together. We're going to get through it.

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Carla leean Hamolka was born May fourth, nineteen seventy to Dorothy and Carol.

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Carol was an immigrant from Czechoslovakia and
worked as a salesman. Carla and

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her two younger sisters, Lori and
Tammy, grew up in Saint Catharine's,

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Ontario, about twenty minutes northwest of
Niagara Falls. I've spent a lot of

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time in Saint Catharine's, have you
really. I used to work for General

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Motors and they have a they have
a plant there and I went there quite

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a bit. When I was back
around the time we started dating. Okay,

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I vaguely remember that. Can you
say anything about Saint Catherine's. It's

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a cute little there's like a little
town area. I think it's called Niagara

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on the Lake, and it's really
just a cute, adorable, quaint little

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town. We have never gone.
I have never seen the falls from the

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Canada side. I've seen them from
the US side, and you and I

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think other people say that the Canada
view is much better. Do I.

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I don't remember that, but I
may have said that at one point in

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my life we should do that.
Can you tell that I'm procrastinating. They

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were a close knit family who liked
to have fun together, and the girl's

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friends were always welcome. Carlo was
loud, expressive, and stubborn. She

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was smart and pretty too. She
made demands and sometimes swore at her parents,

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which often shocked her friends. She
was quick tempered with her friends too.

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She marained friends easily, but wasn't
afraid to cut them loose if they

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made her mad. And Carlo had
her own fashioned sense. She was a

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natural blonde, but changed her hair
color off into a rain bow of colors.

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She wore lots of jewelry and bells
on her shoes. Her signature fashion

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was wearing long underwear under boxer shorts, which was different from most of the

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kids at her school who wore preppier
styles. She was, I guess a

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little gotha. A lot of kids
thought she was weird yet unique, but

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she didn't really care what the other
kids thought about her. When she was

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sixteen, Carla got a part time
job at a pet store. She loved

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animals and wanted to be a veterinarian
or a police officer. Rats, hamsters,

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two rabbits, and a cat all
came home with Carla from her job

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at the pet store. She was
a little on the wild side, and

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she was the first of her friends
to get a fake ID. Carla lost

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her virginity to a male friend in
Kansas when she went to visit him.

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She later told her friends that they
had done cocaine and he had tied her

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up and beat her while having sex. Carla was nonchalant about the incident,

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which alarmed her friends, who worried
about how easily she could be influenced by

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a man. Paul Kenneth Bernardo was
born August twenty seventh, nineteen sixty four

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in Scarborough, Ontario, Canada,
about thirty miles outside of Toronto, to

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Kenneth and Marylyn Bernardo. Have you
been to Scarborough? Never been to Scarborough?

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You've been to Toronto. Marylyn,
who had been adopted by a wealthy

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lawyer and his wife as a baby, wanted to marry her high school sweetheart,

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but her father wouldn't allow it because
he didn't come from a good family

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and he had few career options,
so she settled for Ken Bernardo, who

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was going to college to become an
accountant, and her father approved of him.

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Ken's father was an Italian immigrant and
his mother was English. What Maryland's

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father didn't know was that Ken's father
was an alcoholic and abusive to his family.

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David, the oldest Bernardo child,
was born in nineteen sixty two,

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and Debby came along in nineteen sixty
three. Paul was actually the product of

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an affair Maryland had with her high
school sweetheart, but Ken Bernardo was listed

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as his father on the birth certificate, so somehow, yeah, somehow,

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he made peace with it, or
did he. Paul would not know this

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until he was much older. The
Bernardos struggled financially while Ken finished his accounting

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degree. But a year after Paul
was born, they were able to afford

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a house in a nice, family
oriented neighborhood. They bought a second car

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and built a pool. From the
outside, looking in, they seemed to

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be a happy family, but they
were secrets brooding behind their front door,

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and the house was full of misery. Ken sexually abused his daughter Debbie,

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sometimes in front of other family members. I know, I thought that couldn't

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be true, but I corroborated it
with several different sources. That's very disturbing,

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so disturbing. Ken kept Maryland on
a strict budget. She never spent

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money on herself. She became with
John and depressed, and over time she

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became morbidly obese and was subjected to
daily name calling and ridicule by her husband.

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Neighbors were put off by the odd
couple. They just seemed there was

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just something weird about them, despite
Ken's meticulous dress and hygiene. But Paul,

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from an early age, was charming
and handsome, with bright blue eyes

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and dimples. People were just drawn
to him. He spent more time at

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his friend's houses than his own.
Marilyn didn't have much interest in making meals

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or nurturing the children. Opening cans
of spaghetti or soup for dinner was usually

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what she did. Ken frequently yelled
and criticized the children. Marilyn, around

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nineteen seventy, found her birth family
in nearby Kitchener, Ontario, and began

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spending more and more time getting to
know her sisters, even renting an apartment

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there, often spending weekends away from
her husband and children. When she was

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home, she slept in the basement. She began seeing a psychiatrist around this

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time, but it's not clear if
this helped her. She was never a

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very pleasant person, but who could
blame her. Her husband was pretty horrible.

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Yeah, this whole thing so far
sounds like a recipe for how to

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make a psychopath. I think that's
true. Paul was a good student,

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industrious and a hard worker. He
was a boy scout and played sports,

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but he wasn't a great athlete.
He always had a big idea and a

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scheme. He and his friends started
a business when they were in high school,

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digging up and selling worms. When
Paul was about sixteen, during a

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heated argument with his mother, she
called him a bastard and told him that

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he was the result of the affair. He didn't know that until this point.

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Paul was stunned, but suddenly he
understood why his father treated him with

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such vitriol. The neighborhood watch in
the Bernardo's neighborhood had been on high alert

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after some young several young girls reported
seeing a man peeping into their windows at

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night. Oh, that's so creepy. It became habitual, and some neighbors

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recognized the peeper as Ken Bernardo.
They called the police, who said,

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quote, peeping Tom's are harmless ute. But in nineteen seventy five, he

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was arrested and charged with fondling a
young girl. Not risingly, Paul's siblings,

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00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.360
David and Debbie, moved out of
the Bernardo home as soon as they

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turned eighteen. Jeez, Paul and
his friends became Amway salesman. Do you

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00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.320
remember Amway? I do remember Amwai. How could I forget? What do

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00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:18.080
you remember about Amway? Well,
I had a friend in business school that

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00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.960
called me up one day and said, Hey, I've cut this business proposition.

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00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.840
And I was just fresh out of
business school and I'm like, cool,

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00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.480
it sounds interesting. And I went
to his house and within five minutes

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00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.279
I realized it was an away pitch, and I got up and left.

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00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.480
I don't remember that at all.
I had a friend also that did the

218
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.720
same thing to me. So if
you don't know, AMWI and short for

219
00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:45.200
American Way, it's an MLM founded
in nineteen fifty eight by Jay Van Andel

220
00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:50.799
and Richard Devas in the Great State
of Michigan, selling cleaning, health and

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beauty products. Amway has fought and
settled many lawsuits through the years, paying

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tens of millions of dollars in settlements
that claim it operates as a pyramid scheme.

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In twenty nineteen, Amway made guess
how much am we made in twenty

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00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:07.320
nineteen. That's the latest figure.
Oh, I don't know. Two billion

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dollars, nine billion dollars operated,
operating in over one hundred countries. I

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think we could do a whole episode
at the Amway. But I've been to

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Amway headquarters. Well it's it's not
far from here. I think it's like

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00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.639
an hour and a half from here. Yeah. Well, why were you

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00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.639
at? Did you? They were
a customer of a software company that I

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00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.919
worked for not long ago. Oh? Interesting, Yeah, what did you?

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00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:33.679
I should know this story. Did
anything interesting happen or no, not

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00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.559
really. We just had some meetings
out there and you were, okay,

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00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.679
working with a multi level marketing.
They're good, good paying customer. You

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gotta gotta take it where you can
get here and here in Michigan, the

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00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:49.200
DeVos family is well known for a
lot of little controversial well and Betsy Divos

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00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:56.200
was one Donald Trump's Secretary of Education. Somewhat controversial secretary of Education. Let's

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00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:02.000
say Paul loved the idea of selling
p well better versions of themselves. He

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was good at sales and talking to
people. He also enrolled in the Dale

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00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:11.519
Carnegie How to Make Friends and Influence
People course and became entranced by tell evangelist

240
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.759
Jim Baker, even becoming a card
carrying member of the PTL. Wow,

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00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.839
do you know what PTL stands for? Praise the Lord? Okay, how

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00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.960
did you have that so quick?
As the ready? You were like,

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00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:30.400
praise the Lord? I say it
stands for past the loot or paid to

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00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:37.079
flye. There's another episode we should
do, so episodes we could do.

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00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.680
We have job security here, well, not that no one killed it,

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00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:44.960
but a good scam to me is
really interesting to like the MLM stuff,

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00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.680
and not that Paul was religious,
but he was fascinated with Jim and Tammy's

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00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:53.920
ability to get people to trust them
and hand over their money. Paul was

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00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:59.079
able to use his newly found charm
and persuasiveness to win over the ladies.

250
00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:02.400
Well. Still in high school,
Paul and his friends liked to make up

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00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.079
elaborate lies to woo the ladies.
He was good looking, smooth, and

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00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.519
always well dressed, and he knew
it. In nineteen eighty three, he

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graduated from high school. Under his
yearbook photo it read stud We'll remember Laurier.

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00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.279
That was the high school human too, where he pursued his favorite pastime,

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00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:25.119
meeting females. He plans to become
rich and famous. Oh he sure

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00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.440
did become famous so he can go
to California and quote meet the girls on

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00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.839
the beach. Paul says, the
only way to get through life is to

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00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.400
go for it. Peebe's activities are
swimming, working late nights, and staying

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00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.440
out even later. He plans to
go into commerce, probably at the uf

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00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:47.680
T University of Toronto. Great guy, right, Yeah, Paul Bernardo was

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00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.519
ahead of his time. He bought
a cam quarter and began recording everything and

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00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:55.480
everyone in his life. Despite hating
his father and declaring at a young age

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00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.400
he'd never be an accountant, Paul
enrolled at the University of Toronto in the

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00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.759
fall, majoring in accounting. The
two things that were most important to Paul

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00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:07.640
were making money and getting girls to
sleep with him. Paul's boyish good looks

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00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:12.319
and quick smile made him irresistible to
women, but it soon became apparent to

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00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:18.559
his friends that he was becoming cocky
and abusive to them. He used them

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00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:22.920
and quickly discarded them. He was
especially fond of virgins. As Paul gained

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00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.119
sexual experience and confidence, he became
rougher and more aggressive with his partners.

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He enjoyed playing sado masochistic games.
He had a few serious girlfriends, but

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00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:37.480
always cheated on them while they were
captivated by him. Paul, along with

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00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.599
a couple of his childhood friends,
Van and Steve, began operating a scheme

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00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:47.960
buying and selling stolen goods along with
check writing fraud. Despite doing well in

274
00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:52.480
his professional career, he had landed
a job as a junior accountant at Price

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water House Cooper after his graduation from
the University of Toronto in nineteen eighty seven.

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00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.440
He was smart and good at his
job, dressed in flashy, expensive

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00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.799
suits, and drove a nice car
in an attempt to impress co workers and

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00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.759
of course girls. What do you
think of Paul so far? I don't

279
00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:12.759
like him. You don't like him. I don't like him? Why don't

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00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:17.200
you like him? Kind of know
how this is going to turn out,

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00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.200
but but I do. I also
feel like he had a really bad upbringing,

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00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:23.240
not that that excuses what he later
did, but he's smug and cocky

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00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:30.119
and just all about the outward yeah
impression that he's making on people. I

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00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:32.559
always wonder about someone like that too, that. I mean, he has

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00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.559
a lot going for him. He's
smart, he's doing he seems like he's

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00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:37.119
moving in the right direction of his
career, and yet he chooses to do

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00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:41.279
things like, you know, right, bad checks and traffic, stolen goods

288
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:45.839
and what you're going to get into
later. I'm sure, but it just

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00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.559
you just wonder why somebody you know
decides to take that route when they've got

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00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.599
a lot going for them. He
liked to make fast, easy money.

291
00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:57.319
Yeah. In October seventeenth, nineteen
eighty seven, Paul twenty three and his

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00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:03.240
friend Van went to their usual one
of their usual hangouts, the Howard Johnson

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00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:07.640
Restaurant in Scarborough, good old Hojo's. Yeah remember Hojo's vaguely? Yeah,

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00:21:07.640 --> 00:21:11.839
I don't really. I mean I
just remembered seeing them everywhere, kind of

295
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:17.119
ubiquitous and may Ad met and they
were on It was on math so a

296
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:21.000
lot of people might know it from
that, but it was a hotel and

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00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.480
usually there was like a restaurant,
like a kind of a diner attached,

298
00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.559
right. Wasn't it like a cracker
barrel or something, wasn't it. I

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00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:32.680
don't really remember it. I don't
know if I probably ate it one,

300
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.440
but but they were just kind of
all over, remember, Okay, So

301
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:38.759
when we used to drive to Chicago
all the time, like the desk planes

302
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:44.559
oways, I think that used to
be Howard Johnson's and then it became a

303
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:45.599
McDonald's. Like when I was a
little kid, I think it was Howard

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00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.359
Johnson's. Someone can tell me if
I'm wrong, but I remember that being

305
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.880
in Howard Johnson's, but I don't
think we ever went there. The Howard

306
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.519
Johnson Restaurant had a hotel attached that
seventeen year old Carla and her friend Debbie

307
00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:02.079
Purdy, were staying out for the
week again for a pet convention along with

308
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:06.240
the manager of the store they worked
at called Number One Pet Store and Saint

309
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:08.519
Catharine's. So it just was kind
of odd to me that the manager of

310
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:11.759
the store was like, Yeah,
I'm gonna take these two seventeen fields with

311
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.400
the convention to the convention with me. Paul and Van walked into the restaurant,

312
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:18.319
and as soon as Paul and Carla
locked eyes, it was love at

313
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:22.119
first sight. They made small talk, but within the hour they were having

314
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.880
sex in the hotel room while their
friends awkwardly tried to make a connection of

315
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:32.880
their own on the uncomfortable pullout sofa
while Paul and Carla ravaged each other's bodies

316
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:37.000
just a few feet away within an
hour of meeting. Yeah that's fast.

317
00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:41.119
Yeah, so, and the friends
like, I don't know why the friends

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00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:44.880
would be like, yeah, let's
go. Maybe they thought they were going

319
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:48.519
to hit it off better than they
did. But the friends ended up falling

320
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:53.480
asleep in the same room and Carla
and Paul allegedly had sex for four hours.

321
00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:59.400
They became obsessed with each other and
despite the six year age gap,

322
00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:06.160
like a ninety minute they lived ninety
minutes apart they began dating. So how

323
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:10.000
would you feel if our seventeen year
old started dating at twenty three year old?

324
00:23:10.039 --> 00:23:11.880
I don't think i'd be too happy
about it. Like, she's a

325
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.559
junior in high school, right,
and he's a college graduate. Yeah,

326
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.119
it's a little bit lucky. I
guess there's five years between us, not

327
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:22.400
right, But we didn't start dating
until you were a little bit older than

328
00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:26.720
seventeen exactly. So. Paul lived
in Scarborough, about an hour and a

329
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.759
half from Saint Catharine's, where the
Homolkas lived. He would come visit Saint

330
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:34.000
Catharine's multiple times a week to see
Carla. The Homolkas liked Paul and eventually

331
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.880
relented and let him spend the night
on the couch so he wouldn't have to

332
00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:42.119
drive back and forth. They called
him their weekend son. But he wasn't

333
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:45.960
fooling anyone when he stuck snuck into
Carla's bedroom at night and reappeared on the

334
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:51.079
couch before the family woke up.
But after several months of dating, Paul

335
00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:56.200
was allowed to sleep in Carla's room. Laurie and Tammy, Carla's sisters,

336
00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.240
loved Paul. They thought of him
as the brother they never had. Emmy

337
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:04.759
and Paul had an unusually tight bond. Paul was a perfect doating boyfriend.

338
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:10.720
He bought Carla expensive gifts, frequently
bought her flowers, and called her daily.

339
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.960
That's called love bombing. Do you
know what love bombing is? It

340
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.200
didn't, but I think I know
now. Carla was in deep and her

341
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:22.319
friends and family knew it. She
talked incessantly about how wonderful Paul was and

342
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.680
how well he treated her. So
if someone's talking all the time about how

343
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.559
well someone's treating them, you have
to kind of wonder. Carlo's friends met

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00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:34.599
Paul and couldn't help wondering why a
twenty three year old college graduate would want

345
00:24:34.599 --> 00:24:38.519
to date a girl in high school. Crax began to show in their relationship,

346
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:42.759
though, and Carlo's friends wondered if
Paul was too controlling. Carla wanted

347
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:47.319
to cut her hair short, but
Paul wanted it long. He didn't like

348
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:49.960
her to wear clothing that was too
revealing or not in his preppy fashion.

349
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.440
Carla began eating less and losing weight, even though she was already at a

350
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:59.680
healthy weight. Carlo's friends saw a
pair of handcuffs in her bedroom, and

351
00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:02.799
when asked about them, Carla just
laughed it off and said Paul liked to

352
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:07.240
do kinky things in the bedroom.
A friend also found a note Carlo had

353
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.279
written to herself and in her bedroom, titled Carla's self improvement List. The

354
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:17.279
list included reminders to eat healthy,
exercise, practice good hygiene, but included

355
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:22.200
more disturbing items such as never let
anyone know a relationship as anything but perfect.

356
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.839
Don't talk back to Paul. Always
smile when you're with Paul. Be

357
00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:30.839
a perfect girlfriend for Paul. If
Paul asks for a drink, bring him

358
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:36.519
one quickly and happily. Remember you're
stupid, Remember you're ugly, Remember you're

359
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:40.640
fat. I don't know why I
tell you these things, because you never

360
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.440
change. Obviously Paul had dictated these
things, and Carla had written them down.

361
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.440
Yeah, there's some morning signs right
there. Lots of red flags.

362
00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:53.640
Paul's favorite things about Carlo were her
malability and her slavish devotion to him.

363
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:57.880
She never said no to him.
One thing that bothered him was that she

364
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:02.039
hadn't been a virgin with they met, because I remember, he's obsessed with

365
00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:07.079
virgins. Carla had only one other
partner, but Paul hated that another man

366
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:11.880
had claimed her virginity. He was
obsessed with innocent, virginal girls. Sometimes

367
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.519
he made Carlo put her hair and
pigtails and dressed like a schoolgirl. Carlo,

368
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.039
however, was one hundred percent de
voted to Paul and never looked at

369
00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:23.880
another boy. But Paul had another
girlfriend in Scarborough and went to clubs and

370
00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:30.519
picked up girls there too. He
wasn't seatiable. Helmolka family quickly embraced Paul.

371
00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:33.799
He became another member of the family. As soon as he walked in

372
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.279
the door, Carol would present him
with a beer. Everyone felt comfortable around

373
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:41.480
him, especially Tammy. Paul was
obsessed with Tammy. She was cute,

374
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:45.680
with blonde hair and a good sense
of humor. She looked a lot like

375
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:48.559
Carla, but had a sweet innocence
about her. Sometimes she would sit on

376
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:53.599
Paul's lap, which Carlo really didn't
like. Tammy was just beginning to date,

377
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:57.920
and Paul was concerned at the thought
of someone else taking Tammy's virginity.

378
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:03.119
How old was Fammy? She was
about thirteen or fourteen, okay. In

379
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:06.559
May nineteen eighty nine, on Carlo's
nineteenth birthday, Paul gave her a promise

380
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:08.480
ring. They seemed to be very
much in love and couldn't wait to be

381
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:14.519
married. Carlo was accepted to the
University of Toronto, but declined because Paul

382
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.119
said it was a waste of money
and that he'd take care of her.

383
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:22.680
She began working full time at a
veterinary clinic. Did I say it right?

384
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.039
This time? We usually I'd have
the emphosis on the wrong Salabel.

385
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:34.240
Will you say it veterinary? Veterinary? Yeah, perfect, perfect. It's

386
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.680
not clear what happened, but Paul
stopped working at Price Waterhouse. He had

387
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:42.240
been studying hard for the Certified Accountants
in exam, but he failed at three

388
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.480
times. That's a really hard exam, though, right, most people fail

389
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:48.279
at the first time or two.
I'm sure it is. Yeah. In

390
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:52.279
December nineteen eighty nine, just before
Christmas, Paul proposed to Carla at the

391
00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.359
Niagara Festival of Lights. He dropped
down on one knee in front of the

392
00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:03.279
Nativity scene. Carlo said, yes, of course. Paul had difficulty finding

393
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.400
a steady job. He was surviving
on his unemployment checks and seven nearly maxed

394
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:15.160
out credit cards. He owed over
twenty five thousand dollars forty eight thousand dollars

395
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:19.119
today in Canada's at Yeah, it
wasn't cheap being Paul Bernardo. He was

396
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.920
still dividing his time between Scarborough and
Saint Catharine's and dating multiple women. And

397
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:29.279
when I say dating women, he
did have like a couple of girlfriends that

398
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:33.440
he had on the side, but
he also was going out and meeting as

399
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:40.279
many women as possible. Paul was
granted bankruptcy protection, but opened new credit

400
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.640
cards in Carla's name. And this
is the time when he bought a video

401
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:48.000
camera and began filming everything and everyone
in his life. He didn't leave home

402
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.759
without it. By this time he
had mostly moved in with the Homolka family

403
00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:59.440
and he loved filming them, especially
Tammy. Okay, now we're going to

404
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.359
talk about this Scarborough rapist for a
second. The Scarborough rapists first known attack

405
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.960
was on May fourth, nineteen eighty
seven, when a young woman was getting

406
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.359
off a bus just steps from her
home. Her attacker grabbed her from behind

407
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.039
and dragged her to some trees.
She was able to escape and ran to

408
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.440
her house. She banged on the
door, her father opened it and he

409
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.640
scared off the attacker. Ten days
later, he struck again in the same

410
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.359
neighborhood, grabbing a twenty two year
old woman from the shadows after she had

411
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:32.480
exited the bus, raping her on
the ground hidden by trees. Neither victim

412
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.680
had seen the man's face, but
told police he talked a lot and called

413
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:40.359
them names like slut and horror.
Police increased their presence in the area and

414
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:45.039
the attack stopped for about seven months
until December sixteen, when a fifteen year

415
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.000
old girl was attacked on a cold
winter night, and on December twenty third,

416
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:52.720
another woman was attacked, but she
screamed and the rapist ran away again.

417
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:56.599
There was a long period of no
attacks, but in April eighteenth,

418
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.640
nineteen eighty eight, he struck again, raping a nineteen year old woman who

419
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.440
had just gotten off the bus.
So that was kind of his mode of

420
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:08.319
operation. He would, you know, attack It kind of seemed to be

421
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.599
in the same neighborhood and like to
get the girls as they were coming off

422
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:18.279
the bus. And usually the attacks
happened outside, and they happened like the

423
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.000
rapes were kind of long. They
were sometimes like an hour or more.

424
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.599
Yeah, it's horrible. In November, he attacked an eighteen year old woman.

425
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.680
The police were able to piece together
some patterns of the rapist. He

426
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:34.359
liked the victims to tell him that
they loved him, and he would look

427
00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:38.119
through their purses and take an idea
or some other souvenir, and he would

428
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.079
threaten to come back and find them
if they called the police. Sounds like

429
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:45.759
you also liked them fairly young.
He did like them young. And I

430
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:49.839
should also say like, there's a
there's a lot. I didn't cover all

431
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:53.720
of them, and I'm also trying
to not go into great detail here,

432
00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.559
but also when there's times that there's
breaks, I think it's possible if there

433
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:06.599
were some rapes that were unreported.
Yeah, female police officers rode the bus

434
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:10.559
to lure the rapists to no avail. From victim swabs, police were able

435
00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:15.519
to discern that the rapist was a
non secret meaning his sweat and saliva wouldn't

436
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:18.359
reveal his blood type, which is
a trait of only twenty percent of the

437
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.759
population, resulting in the police taking
lots of saliva samples from suspects. As

438
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.880
time went on, the rapists grew
confident that he'd never be caught and became

439
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:33.839
more aggressive, and he held knives
to the women's throats and sometimes stab them.

440
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.920
The rapists struck again in June,
August, November, and twice in

441
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:42.319
December, with police and residence becoming
seemingly scared and frustrated. Fears increased that

442
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:47.359
the rapists would become a serial killer, gaining confidence after evading capture for so

443
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:52.519
long. Can you imagine living during
that time and having like just these rapes

444
00:31:52.559 --> 00:32:00.319
just keep happening and happening, and
there I think a minimum of fourteen pssibly

445
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:02.079
as many as thirty. It's terrifying. And that's not a big city,

446
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:05.440
right, I mean, I don't
know how big Scarborough is, but it's

447
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.359
definitely not like Toronto or you know
somewhere like that. Yeah, it's on

448
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:13.519
the outskirts of Toronto. Finally,
in May twenty sixth, nineteen ninety,

449
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:15.160
he attacked a woman who was able
to get a good look at him.

450
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.960
She had described him as eighteen to
twenty two, about six feet tall,

451
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:23.160
tanned, clean shaven, sandy blonde
hair, muscular with light eyes. A

452
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:28.640
composite sketch was created, resulting in
thousands of tips. Hundreds of men were

453
00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:32.200
brought into police stations, for saliva
samples. The non secrets were subjected to

454
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:39.440
further fingerprinting and DNA testing. This
drastically increased the workload of the already overworked

455
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:46.559
and understaffed Center of Forensic Sciences or
the CFS. Are you following so far?

456
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.960
Yeah? I think so. Do
you think you could crack this case

457
00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:52.720
wide opened? Because you probably know
who the Scarboard rapist is already. I

458
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.519
think it might be one Paul Bernardo. That's just my theory. I think

459
00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:01.720
you're you're onto something there. Veil
Smurtus, Paul's best friend, was shown

460
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:05.640
the sketch by his father, and
Van was gobsmacked. When he saw the

461
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:07.720
picture, it looked just like Paul. He was shocked and uncertain what to

462
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:12.400
do. He called another friend to
tell him his suspicions, and the friend

463
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:16.119
called Paul. A furious Paul called
Van and denied knowing anything about the Scarborough

464
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:22.119
rapist. Sometime later, Van's brother's
wife called the police and told them Paul

465
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:25.200
should be investigated. The Paul asked
him to asked Paul to come in and

466
00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:29.880
provide a DNA sample, which he
did. His sample was sent to the

467
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:35.400
CFS, along with sixteen hundred other
samples at that time there were only there

468
00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:39.039
was only one qualified technician who could
analyze the samples, resulting in a huge

469
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:45.799
backlog of untested specimens. The Scarborough
rapists committed at least fourteen rapes over a

470
00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:50.599
four year period, and there were
probably several women that never reported their attack.

471
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.880
Wow, oh, it's just oh, it's so frustrating because he could

472
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.960
have been caught at this point.
Do you think that would And then he

473
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:00.039
said, like, because there was
only you know, one or two people

474
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:06.400
that could could analyze those specimens,
couldn't you hire a couple more people,

475
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:09.519
you would think, And maybe that
was just you know, the DNA analysis

476
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:15.239
was just kind of I think that's
just a problem. There just wasn't enough

477
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:22.239
people. Right. So on December
twenty third, the mood and the okay

478
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:29.079
this, I know we gave a
content warning. This next section is I

479
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.320
mean, the rest of the whole
rest of what I'm gonna tell you was

480
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:36.920
all from here on out. It's
it's it's all bad. In December twenty

481
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:40.280
third, nineteen ninety, the mood
and the homocal house was jovial. Dorothy

482
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:44.599
was busy making Christmas cookies while the
rest of the family were having drinks and

483
00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:47.519
celebrating in front of the Christmas tree, and Paul was filming the festivities.

484
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.800
Tammy was just one week away from
her sixteenth birthday and she was allowed to

485
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:57.039
have a couple of drinks, but
she drank much more after her parents went

486
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.360
to bed. She had had a
couple of strawberry Dakirie's, two glasses of

487
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:06.280
champagne, spiked eggnog, and wine. Only two people were awake at one

488
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:10.719
twenty am when emergency services arrived at
the Humulka residence, with firefighters and police,

489
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.920
awakening the rest of the confused family. Tammy was not breathing. She

490
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:21.360
had choked on her own vomit,
and blizzard like weather had caused the emergency

491
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.400
response team to take a little longer
than usual. It was too late by

492
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:30.920
the time they arrived. Tammy died. Paul and Carlo said they'd fallen asleep

493
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:35.000
on the couch watching a movie.
Tammy was lying on the love seat when

494
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.719
she started wheezing, and the noise
woke Carla and Paul, and they called

495
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:43.239
ninety one one after she became unresponsive. Police noted that Carla had put a

496
00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:49.480
comforter and blanket in the washing machine
destroying eddy evidence. Paul and Carlo's story

497
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:52.599
was suspicious. They alleged that they
were woken when Tammy was throwing up on

498
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:57.280
the couch, but she was found
in Carla's bedroom on the floor when the

499
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:01.480
paramedics arrived. There were some range
and tense burns on Tammy's face, however

500
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:06.280
that no one could explain. One
mark went from her mouth to her left

501
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:08.880
ear. There was another mark under
her nose and one on her shoulder.

502
00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:15.519
Paul said it could be yrogburn from
when they dragged Tammy into Carlo's bedroom,

503
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:20.360
but they dragged her on her face, the officers thought it looked more like

504
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:24.599
she had been freebasing cocaine. Tammy
wasn't wearing a bra or underwear, and

505
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:30.760
there was a sanitary pad in her
sweatpants. The autopsy found that Tammy died

506
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.960
after she had aspirated on her own. Vomit fluid had entered her lungs and

507
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:39.000
cut off her breathing and caused cardiac
arrest. The tax screen revealed only trace

508
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:44.320
amounts of alcohol and no drugs.
It was determined that the burns around her

509
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:50.239
mouth were caused by vomit, but
not really. It would be discovered years

510
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.320
later Carlo's trial that she had stolen
healthy end pills, which are used to

511
00:36:53.400 --> 00:37:00.199
induce sleep, and hallow thane,
a clear, odorless anesthetic liquid, the

512
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:05.199
Animal clinic. She had spiked Tammy's
eggnog with the helcyon, and after Tammy

513
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:10.000
was unconscious, she ampalled it unspeakable
sex acts to her while Carla held a

514
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:14.760
rag soaked with hallo fane to her
mouth a nose, which caused the burns.

515
00:37:15.639 --> 00:37:20.920
Hallo Fane drastically depresses respiration and heart
rate. It's no longer used in

516
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:28.079
North America. And helcion is a
benzodiazepin that inhibits the nervous system. And

517
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:30.679
these two drugs, along with the
alcohol, were probably enough to kill Tammy.

518
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:36.719
And that's not something they tested for
obviously, because probably not the hallothane,

519
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:38.079
you know, I think it probably
because it's a liquid, it probably

520
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:45.280
evaporates. Well. That is horrific, and some people think that Carla should

521
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:47.000
have known better. She worked at
the animal clinic. She used these things

522
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:52.480
all the time, and it's possible
that she knew what she was doing.

523
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:57.159
She was tired of Tammy. She
was jealous of Tammy. You mean thinking

524
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:04.119
that she wanted to kill Tammy,
not just possibly. Here's Paul's official statement

525
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.360
to police after Tammy's death. I'm
twenty six years of age and reside at

526
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:12.840
twenty one Sir Raymond Drive, West
Hill, Scarborough, Ontario with my parents.

527
00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:16.480
I've been dating Carla Homolka for the
past three years and I'm currently engaged

528
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:21.840
to her. On Saturday, the
twenty third of December nineteen ninety, I

529
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:25.320
was visiting the Homolka home. I
visit there every weekend. Carla and I

530
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:29.880
had been over at the river for
about three to four hours on Sunday afternoon.

531
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:34.199
We returned home at approximate least six
thirty to seven pm and had supper.

532
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.320
After supper was finished, we sat
around and talked for a while.

533
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:40.159
Mister and Missus Homolka went down to
the reck room. Carlo, Lori,

534
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:45.079
Tammy and I stayed up in the
living room and watched TV. We watched

535
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:47.280
a movie that we had rented.
While we watched the movie, Carla,

536
00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:52.960
Tammy and I had some drinks.
I had one or two Caesars, maybe

537
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:58.559
a Rye and Coke and a Rusty
Nail which is Scotch and drambooie. Carla

538
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:02.280
and Tammy were drinking Colatta's and Strawberry
Jackeris. Tammy had a couple of drinks

539
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.239
of My Rusty, of Rusty,
My Rusty Nail. She also opened a

540
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:09.880
bottle of champagne. I don't know
how much Carlo or Tammy drank of the

541
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:15.079
champagne. I think I had half
a glass. Around eleven PM, mister

542
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:17.599
and missus Homolka came upstairs and went
to bed. At this time we went

543
00:39:17.639 --> 00:39:22.599
downstairs to the wreck room and continued
watching the movie. I was sitting on

544
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:25.960
one couch with Carla and Tammy was
on the other by herself. Sometime I

545
00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.800
fell asleep. I was awakened and
Tammy was choking. She was lying on

546
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:35.639
her back with her head towards the
Christmas tree. She was choking and vomiting.

547
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:37.039
I tried to pick her up off
the couch, but I was not

548
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:42.800
too successful. I got her off
the floor with this part later added by

549
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:45.039
Paul in his own writing, after
he had scratched out three and a half

550
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:52.280
lines written by a police officer and
administered mouth to mouth resuscitation two or three

551
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.679
times. I tried to pick her
up and I moved her into Carlo's bedroom

552
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:59.880
On the floor and continued trying mouth
to mouth. Carla called nine one one

553
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:05.480
immediately, Paul wrote later, I
continued administering mouth to mouth till the fire

554
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.119
department arrived. I asked the fireman
if he would continue mouth to mouth,

555
00:40:08.199 --> 00:40:14.760
and he said yes, So that
is all lies. Tammy's death was ruled

556
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:19.280
accidental, which caused some law enforcement
to be uneasy, but the devastated family

557
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:23.199
didn't pursue any further investigation. This
ruling would come back to haunt law enforcement

558
00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:28.039
in the coming months and years to
come, but the family was too heartbroken

559
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:32.239
to consider Tammy's death anything but an
accident and didn't push for further investigation.

560
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.119
It's weird too that you said that
the talks screen didn't indicate a lot of

561
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:40.800
alcohol in her system, right,
Yeah. That surprised me too. Yeah,

562
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:44.960
so that would have been a pretty
big red flag to figure out what

563
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:47.920
actually happened. Then I would think, but if you vomited, how you

564
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:51.440
know, does that just still in
your bloodstream? Though? I think I

565
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:58.000
would think, Yeah, that I
was surprised by that too. Paul had

566
00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:01.079
never forgiven Carla for not being a
version when they met, so she told

567
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:07.840
Paul that Tammy's virginity could be his
Christmas present from her. Because Tammy's virginity

568
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:13.360
was hers to give a Tammy's funeral
and the twenty seventh of December, the

569
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.119
Christmas gift she would have received were
late in her casket, including a Sony

570
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:21.880
walkman and a necklace from Paul.
Carla and Paul included letters to Tammy in

571
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:25.000
the casket. Paul's letter read,
Dearest Tammy, my dearest little sister.

572
00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:29.960
Words cannot express the deep sorrow and
regret I now feel. You gave me

573
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:31.599
your love and trusted me like your
big brother. We shared a lot of

574
00:41:31.639 --> 00:41:35.280
good times, and you touched my
heart in a way that no one else

575
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.320
ever could. I love you,
Tammy, I always have and will.

576
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:42.559
I miss you so much and my
life will never be the same now that

577
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.519
you've gone. If I ever caused
you any harm or pain, Tammy,

578
00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:47.800
please forgive me. I only wanted
the best for you, just for you

579
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.000
to be happy and to experience the
joys of the world. Please forgive me,

580
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:55.039
Tammy. I'll love you from now
till eternity, and I'm looking forward

581
00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.559
to seeing you again once I die. Love your brother, Paul is Carla's

582
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:01.920
letter, Dear Tammy, I have
so much to say to you that words

583
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:05.960
cannot express. I've talked to you
every night, and you know how I

584
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:08.519
feel about everything. I won't write
everything I want to say. You know

585
00:42:08.599 --> 00:42:12.559
it already. I know the card
shouldn't be used yet, but I want

586
00:42:12.559 --> 00:42:15.480
to give you the thoughts it holds
to carry with you. I don't know

587
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:19.159
what that means. I love you
deeply and will hold you in my heart

588
00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:22.519
forever. All. I love your
big sister, Carla XO XO plus ps.

589
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:25.320
I love and miss you with all
my heart. I hope you're happy

590
00:42:25.400 --> 00:42:29.119
and loved and in God's hands.
I love you so much, little sister,

591
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:32.559
and can't wait to see you again. All my love, car Yeah.

592
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:37.800
Are you sure how we have these
letters? Yeah? I don't know.

593
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:42.239
If she must have been exhumed,
oh maybe, And I have not

594
00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.119
read that anywhere, But that just
was what makes sense to me. While

595
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:47.920
she lay in her casket, paul
but her Ring, he had owned for

596
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:52.480
years on her finger. He had
spent hundreds of dollars on a large heart

597
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:57.719
shaped flower arrangement that was next to
her casket, and by all accounts,

598
00:42:57.760 --> 00:43:04.320
I mean Paula's disgusting and horrible and
don't I'm not giving him any empathy or

599
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:09.239
compassion, but he was. He
was heartbroken over her death. In June

600
00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:15.400
nineteen ninety one, Leslie Mahaffee fourteen
disappeared from Saint Catharine's, Ontario. Leslie

601
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:20.639
was born on July fifth, nineteen
seventy six, after her parents, Debbie

602
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:24.880
and Dan, had struggled to conceive
after Debby's battle with ovarian cancer. Her

603
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:29.239
brother, Ryan was born seven years
later. They adored each other. Even

604
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.119
if she wasn't getting along with her
parents, Leslie always made time for Bryan.

605
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:36.679
Leslie was a pretty girl with long
blonde hair and a bright smile.

606
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:39.840
She was smart and well light,
with a strong will. Her mother was

607
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:45.880
a teacher and her father was an
oceanographer who traveled frequently, leaving Debby a

608
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:51.079
little frazzled and overworked at times.
As Leslie reached her teen years, she

609
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:54.960
yearned for her independence and made a
series of bad decisions. She was arrest

610
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:59.840
of her shoplifting and then disappeared from
her family home. After she was grounded

611
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.679
for two weeks, she was found
in a motel with an older boy.

612
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.519
The police found her and returned her
to appearance, only to have her runaway

613
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:13.760
again for six days. The summer
had been turbulent, but Debbie was hopeful

614
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:17.119
that with therapy they would get through
the rough patch. In June fourteenth,

615
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:22.559
nineteen ninety one, two weeks before
her fifteenth birthday, Leslie went to the

616
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:24.840
wake of a classmate and friend,
Chris Evans, who had died in a

617
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:30.599
car accident, along with three other
teenagers from Saint Catharine's. She promised her

618
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:34.639
mother she would return by her curfew. After the wake, many of the

619
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:38.199
high schoolers gathered in the woods to
grieve, drink and smoke. Leslie missed

620
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:43.760
her curfew again. So okay,
I just want to stay here in defense

621
00:44:43.840 --> 00:44:46.159
of Leslie. I think she was
a good kid. She just made some

622
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:51.079
bad decisions. A lot of teenagers
too. Those teen years are hard.

623
00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:54.000
She finally wade it back to her
house at about two am and found the

624
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:59.679
doors locked in the house dark.
Leslie walked to a nearby pay phone and

625
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:01.480
call her friend Amandad to see if
she could spend the night with her.

626
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:06.280
They talked on the phone for about
half an hour before Leslie decided that she

627
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:09.159
would go home and face the music
ring the doorbell and wake up her parents.

628
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.400
The next morning, when Debbie Mahaffey
woke Leslie was not home, she

629
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:20.039
didn't worry until the afternoon. She
called the police and filed a report.

630
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:24.320
What do you think the police did
nothing? Are told her to wait because

631
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:28.440
she had ran away a couple of
times. Police assumed she had run away

632
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:34.559
again and didn't take her disappearance disappearance
seriously. Leslie's body was found in Lake

633
00:45:34.599 --> 00:45:37.480
Gibson on June twenty ninth, nineteen
ninety one, the same day as Carla

634
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:43.920
and Paul's wedding. A couple was
kayaking and on Lake Gibson near Saint Catharine's

635
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.440
and one of their paddles struck a
cement block and the shallow water, and

636
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:52.840
they were horrified to find a cement
block with partial human remains encased inside,

637
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:59.360
and it was Leslie. Divers would
later find nine other cement blocks of varying

638
00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:06.000
sizestaining the rest of her remains,
the largest weighing over two hundred pounds.

639
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:09.039
A night of her disappearance, Paul
found here near her home and lured her

640
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:13.920
to his car by offering her a
cigarette. He took her home to Carlo

641
00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:17.880
where they tortured and raped her vaginally
and anally while videotaping the horrific act.

642
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:23.760
It's possible she wouldn't have been killed
if her blindfold hadn't slept. Once they

643
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:28.480
knew she could identify them, they
decided she needed to be killed. It's

644
00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:32.920
unclear how she died, but Carla
claims Paul killed her by strangling her with

645
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:40.280
an electric cord. So my heart
is broken for poor Debbie Leslie's mom because

646
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:45.519
obviously, had she known that,
you know, yeah, she never would

647
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:50.800
She never would have locked the door. So I can't imagine the grief and

648
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:55.280
the regret and the guilt that that
woman has suffered after Tammy's death. As

649
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:00.440
the Homolkas went about the hard work
of grieving Tammy, they asked Carla if

650
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:04.840
Paul could move back into his parents'
house to give them some more space.

651
00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:08.079
Carla had assumed that she and Paul
would continue to live with her parents until

652
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:13.199
their wedding. Paul was so hurt
and offended that he and Carla moved into

653
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.159
a recently renovated pink Cape Cod house
in a nice neighborhood and Port de Lucy,

654
00:47:19.440 --> 00:47:22.719
the landlord, would later say that
they had been ideal tenants. The

655
00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:28.000
couple got a new dog, a
rotwhiler they named Buddy. Friends were confused

656
00:47:28.039 --> 00:47:31.119
how the couple could continue living their
extravagant lifestyle. Despite Paul not having a

657
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:36.800
job, he always seemed to have
money. Paul and Van had been smuggling

658
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:39.519
cigarettes from the United States into Canada
to make money by not paying the seven

659
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:46.000
percent syntax the Canadian government added to
alcohol and cigarettes and other goods. Sometimes

660
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:50.840
things were as much as fifty percent
cheaper in the US. One of their

661
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:54.119
customers bought two hundred cartons a week
from Paul and Van. They were making

662
00:47:54.159 --> 00:48:00.519
about a thousand dollars a week in
profits. Paul had special secret panels installed

663
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:07.000
in his car for undetected smuggling boy. Eventually their business doubled. Paul decided

664
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:10.760
it would look better to have Carlo
with him in the border crossings, and

665
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:16.199
Carla would come with him and wear
sexy outfits trying to distract the border guards.

666
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:22.119
So we are about an hour from
the Canadian border and we've crossed the

667
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:27.599
border many times, and whenever you
crossed it, it's like, oh,

668
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:30.519
do I have drugs in the car? And we don't ever obviously, but

669
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:34.920
you know, you always just get
super nervous and we've never had an issue,

670
00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:37.599
but they are kind of a bropton. Yeah I had an issue once,

671
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:42.199
did you. Yeah, when I
was younger, I crossed the border

672
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:45.440
with a girl that I was dating
at the time and two friends of hers

673
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:50.800
and we got stopped and the one
friend turned out he was like from another

674
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:52.599
country and he had changed his name
and all this stuff, and they were

675
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:57.880
like, pull over over there,
and they were not nice at all.

676
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.760
They searched the car, they were
very like they're questioning, was very brusk,

677
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:04.920
rude, and yeah, it wasn't
a great experience. No, No,

678
00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:07.159
they let us go eventually, but
it was uncomfortable. One Again,

679
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:10.000
I'm procrastinating because I don't want to
get back to this horrible case. But

680
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:14.559
where we like, there's two ways
to get there's the tunnel on the bridge,

681
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.840
and you prefer one. You prefer
the tunnel tunnel. It's like right

682
00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.360
downtown, and it's yeah, that's
the way most people go. I think.

683
00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:25.639
I think one time we were crossing
and I had some fruit and they

684
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:30.280
made me throw the fruit away.
Oh I don't remember that. I think

685
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:35.159
that was the case. Everything is
a blur all right back to the back

686
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:38.880
to the story. Prior to the
wedding, friends recall seeing bruises on Carla,

687
00:49:38.960 --> 00:49:43.159
and they didn't like the way Paul
ordered her around. He'd say things

688
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:46.559
like bitch, get them a drink
when they were entertaining friends. Carla wasn't

689
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:50.920
the same happy, go look lucky
girl she had once been. She often

690
00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:53.239
looked haggard, and her smile wasn't
as frequent or bright, and she was

691
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:58.920
shockingly thin at this time. The
night of the dress rehearsal was stressful with

692
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:01.800
the homolkas and the Nardo's meeting.
Carla and Paul had everyone back to their

693
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:06.079
house for dinner, but strangely,
they hadn't prepared enough food, so their

694
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:10.199
friends had to rush out to the
store and get more food. The bridal

695
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:15.920
party divided after the dinner. The
girls stayed at Paul and Carlo's house and

696
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:20.320
the boys went to a hotel.
They went to the bar and as usual,

697
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:22.480
met a group of girls. Paul
started making out with one of them

698
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.679
and then decided the spur of the
moment to take the party back to his

699
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:30.320
house. It was after two am
at this point on the day of his

700
00:50:30.360 --> 00:50:35.280
wedding to Carla and Paul brought the
girls back to his house and I think

701
00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:39.000
he had sex with one of the
girls when a guy. The bridal party

702
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:43.639
was tired and hungover, but the
wedding went on as planned. Everyone was

703
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:46.440
on their best behavior. Surprisingly,
it was a grand affair. No expense

704
00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:51.480
was spared. Under the direction of
Paul. He even picked out Carlo's dress

705
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:57.400
and hairstyle. The newly weds rode
off into the sunset on a horse driven

706
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.400
carriage. The next day they left
on a two week honeymoon to Hawaii,

707
00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:06.559
where they visited three of the islands. So this is like six months after

708
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:13.239
Tammy's death and then there's this big
family wedding and the Homokas weren't super excited

709
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:15.760
about it, but Paul and Carla
kind of insisted, no, the wedding

710
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:19.239
must go on. Yeah, it
seems a little a little quick for a

711
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:22.400
big, big celebration of it.
Yeah it was, and it was a

712
00:51:22.400 --> 00:51:24.920
big celebration. It was very expensive, and Carla's parents had just paid for

713
00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:30.119
a funeral, and the funerals expensive
and they were a little cash strapped,

714
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:35.440
and they did it anyway. In
April sixteenth, nineteen ninety two, on

715
00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:38.440
a rainy afternoon a few days before
Easter, fifteen year old Kristen Dawn French

716
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:43.920
left Holy Cross High School and began
the one point two mile walk home from

717
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:47.159
school in Saint Catherine's, Ontario,
when someone stopped to ask her four directions.

718
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:52.280
Kristen, a pretty girl with bouncy
brown hair and big blue, big

719
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.880
brown eyes, was an excellent student
athlete and all around nice girl. She

720
00:51:55.960 --> 00:52:00.719
was an ice skater and on the
rowing team. She was like and admired

721
00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:05.480
by her peers and adored by her
family. Doug French had married his second

722
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:07.559
wife, Donna, after the breakup
of his first marriage. He had four

723
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:12.599
children with his first wife and two
with Donna, Kristen and Darren, who

724
00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:15.440
was two years older and away at
college. Doug was a salesman and he

725
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:21.599
came home early because of the coming
holiday weekend, and he was Doug was

726
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:23.679
really excited because his other kids were
coming and it was going to be a

727
00:52:23.679 --> 00:52:29.320
big family Easter. He expected Kristen
to be home when he got there,

728
00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:34.800
but she was unusually late. Donna
arrived home from her secretarial job at around

729
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:37.639
five, and she too became alarmed
that Kristen was late. It wasn't like

730
00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:43.119
Kristen not to let her parents know
her plans. The worried parents called everyone

731
00:52:43.159 --> 00:52:45.800
they could think of, but no
one knew where Kristen was. At six

732
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:50.840
pm, the Frenches called the police. A shoe, a bass penny loafer,

733
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:53.800
was found in a church parking lot
near the French's home, along with

734
00:52:53.920 --> 00:53:00.559
a tattered, wet map of Scarborough
and a lock of hair appeared to be

735
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:06.440
Kristen's. A woman named Barbara Packham
drove by and noticed two people scuffling outside

736
00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:09.880
of a white car, but she
assumed it was just a couple having an

737
00:53:09.960 --> 00:53:15.559
argument. She had dismissed the incident
until the next evening when she saw Kristen

738
00:53:15.599 --> 00:53:20.920
featured on the news. She was
horrified that she could have intervened and immediately

739
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:25.199
called the police. But Barbara witnessed
was Kristen trying to escape, but Paul

740
00:53:25.599 --> 00:53:30.119
had thrown her in the back of
a car. The community was devastated.

741
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:32.599
Thousands of people, along with a
police joined in the search for Kristen.

742
00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:37.000
The town was covered in green ribbons, the color of Kristen's school, symbolizing

743
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:40.800
hope that she would be found.
She was found two weeks later by the

744
00:53:40.840 --> 00:53:45.159
side of the road in the woods. Her body was intact, but badly

745
00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:51.039
beaten and bruised. There were ligature
marks around her neck, and her dark

746
00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:55.360
hair had been cut short. There
was also evidence of sexual assault. Her

747
00:53:55.400 --> 00:54:00.960
cause of death was asphyxiation. The
police for sure the deaths of Leslie Mahaffey

748
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:06.039
and Kristen French were connected. Residents
of Saint Catharine's were on edge. They

749
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:08.679
knew a serial killer was on the
loose. Police and FBI thought they were

750
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:14.880
looking for two killers, though the
FBI profile speculated that one was the aggressor

751
00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:19.679
and the other was more submissive.
There weren't many clues in either case for

752
00:54:19.719 --> 00:54:23.119
the police to work with. They
turned to the public and they fielded over

753
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:27.840
forty four thousand tips, but none
of them panned out and the case went

754
00:54:27.920 --> 00:54:32.679
cold. You said they found a
map of Scarborough with at the location where

755
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:37.000
she was abducted from. You would
think they might have started putting two to

756
00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:42.440
two and two together with that and
the rapist in Scarborough hindsights. Yeah,

757
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:47.000
yeah, I mean they're in ninety
minutes away, and I think I think

758
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:52.480
the police thought that the Scarborough rapist
was just very isolated in that community and

759
00:54:52.639 --> 00:54:57.719
hadn't you know, gone any further
and the Scarborough at that time though that

760
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:02.480
the rapes had pretty much stopped Scarborough. So it just seems like already there

761
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:07.719
there are a lot of places where
this could have been stopped before it got

762
00:55:07.719 --> 00:55:09.840
too far. You know. There's
just been a lot of a lot of

763
00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:13.280
things that were just like, oh, if only this had happened, if

764
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:16.079
only they had looked at the DNA
at the time, it breaks sure,

765
00:55:16.679 --> 00:55:22.599
it breaks my heart. I mean
these, yeah, three girls could could

766
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:25.360
have been saved. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, I think that's where

767
00:55:25.360 --> 00:55:29.920
we're gonna stop. Sorry that was
a little ap dropped, but I wasn't

768
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:32.679
sure exactly where we're gonna stop.
But I think good time to take a

769
00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:36.960
break. Yeah, how you doing
hanging in there? It's a horrible story,

770
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:38.079
for sure, but I knew it
was going to be, so I

771
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:44.440
braced myself. But yeah, yeah, I know it's I hate I hate

772
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:47.159
it, and I was in too
deep. But it couldn't turn around.

773
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:52.079
It was like the book I read
it was six hundred pages, so like

774
00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:55.920
when it started turning horrible, I
was like, well and I had we

775
00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:59.400
had to finish it. Yeah,
I have been. Like I said at

776
00:55:59.440 --> 00:56:02.719
the beginning, I'm a little worried
about your grasp on sanity over the last

777
00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:07.639
few days, but looks like hopefully
we're gonna make it through. So you

778
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:12.360
know that one clip of Casey Casum
where he like goes off because he has

779
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:15.000
to, like he's talking about someone's
dead dog, and then he has do

780
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:16.719
you know what I'm talking about?
I do? Yeah. I wondering where

781
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:21.519
this is going. It's quite a
transition. Go ahead, well, this

782
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:23.800
is like the transition that I have
to make here. It's like, you

783
00:56:23.800 --> 00:56:28.480
know, if anyone doesn't know,
Casey Kasum used to have a weekly radio

784
00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:31.880
show, American Top forty American Top
forty. And when I was a kid

785
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.760
and I used to listen to everyone
did really did everyone listen to it?

786
00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:39.119
He had the radio voice. You're
a pretty good radio voice. I can't

787
00:56:39.119 --> 00:56:44.159
do okay, well, and Nursin
actually told us the other day that radio

788
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:47.079
voices are out like that old kind
of let's just do a radio voice.

789
00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:52.159
You're good at voices. I can't
do it on demand. The pressure I

790
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:54.559
can't do. I can't deal with
that pressure. Okay, Well, you

791
00:56:54.559 --> 00:57:00.400
know the old time you kind of
radio like the deep kind of you could

792
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:04.320
do it better thing. I come
on, just do Welcome to America's Top

793
00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:07.079
forty. There you go. That
was perfect like that. It wasn't like

794
00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:09.000
Casey Kyson yet. But anyway,
my point, like this is this famous

795
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:14.159
clip of him, like he starts
swearing and saying lots of bad. Yeah,

796
00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:17.199
she's just irate because he's talking about
like someone dedicated, like people would

797
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:22.519
dedicate a song. Someone dedicated to
a song to their dead dog. And

798
00:57:22.519 --> 00:57:25.440
then he had to go to an
upbeat song and he was like, how

799
00:57:25.800 --> 00:57:29.599
you can't expect me? And this
is how like I feel today because I'm

800
00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:34.320
telling you this horrible story about Paul
and Carla, like murdering these beautiful young

801
00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:37.239
girls. And now I was just
going to tell you about the Barbe movie.

802
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:44.719
I would probably give it an you
know, it wasn't as it wasn't

803
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:45.519
as fun as I thought it was
going to be. It was good.

804
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:52.039
We might have gone in with higher
expectations maybe like that sometimes your expectation if

805
00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:54.360
it doesn't map to you know,
reality. Well, part of my question

806
00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:59.840
was like who was the movie for
because it definitely wasn't for little girls and

807
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:05.000
it felt like it was a little
Well, there was a lesson, you

808
00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.679
know, kind of like Barbie you
can, but that's always been the lesson

809
00:58:07.719 --> 00:58:09.679
that Barbie can do everything, So
it just felt maybe a little preachy to

810
00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:15.719
me. But I love the outfits
and set design was really cool, So

811
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:19.079
I recommend it, but I was
slightly disappointed. I would probably give it

812
00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:22.159
a seven out of ten maybe,
but I kind of want to see it

813
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:24.960
again. I would see it again, so then I might have a different

814
00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:29.599
impression. So what do you see
it with me? I'm asking you on

815
00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:32.119
a date. I probably would.
I'm not super excited about it. I'm

816
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:37.159
sure it's for seeing. Yeah,
I would go. Margot Robbie was I

817
00:58:37.159 --> 00:58:39.880
thought she was. She was pretty
fabulous. He like Margot Robbie. So

818
00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:45.760
you said that with kind of like
a creepy, lurrying total of voice.

819
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:50.480
She's a good actress, that's what
I Oh my god, he is never

820
00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:54.280
You're really not a lectuous kind of
guy at all. But that's sounded lecherous.

821
00:58:54.559 --> 00:58:59.960
That's okay, you're allowed to have
questions allowed. Well, I love

822
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:04.800
Ryank Hustling, but this was not
his best. He was kind of annoying

823
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.280
in the movie. Just my opinion. If anyone wants to let me know

824
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:13.480
your opinion, let me know.
See when you come out of those up

825
00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:16.639
tempo goddamn numbers. Man, it's
impossible to make those transitions, and then

826
00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:20.480
you got to go into somebody dying. You know, they do this to

827
00:59:20.559 --> 00:59:22.519
me all the time. I don't
know what the hell they do it for,

828
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:23.920
but god damn it, if we
can't come out of a slow record,

829
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:28.719
I don't understand it is down on
the phone. Okay. I want

830
00:59:28.719 --> 00:59:31.360
a goddamn concerted effort to come out
of a record that isn't a fucking up

831
00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:37.719
tempo record. Every time I do
a goddamn deaf dedication, now make it.

832
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:39.679
And I also want to know what
happened to the pictures I was supposed

833
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:44.480
to see this week. This is
a god last goddamn time. I want

834
00:59:44.519 --> 00:59:49.079
somebody to use his fucking brain to
not come out of a goddamn record that

835
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.679
is that's up tempo. And I
gotta talk about a fucking dog dying.

836
00:59:52.320 --> 01:00:00.000
What is this fucking ponderous man,
ponderous, fucking ponderous. So that's that's

837
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:05.840
that's all I have right now.
I'm trying to, you know, like

838
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:07.000
I have, we have to do
the second half of the case, and

839
01:00:07.079 --> 01:00:09.519
they're probably going to do this,
So she talks a little bit and then

840
01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:12.880
come back home. Well, I
don't know if I want to detox or

841
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:16.519
if we should just anyway, no
one cares. Conversation we should have,

842
01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:23.960
but uh, rest in peace Tammy
and Leslie and Kristen Source and all the

843
01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:30.320
other victims. Yeah, that creepy, creepy, creepy guy. Yeah,

844
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:34.039
horrible evil guy. Well an evil
an evil girl too. They're both.

845
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:37.599
They're both. I think Canadians hate
them. I'd be curious, do you

846
01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:42.320
hate them both equally? Well,
I definitely feel a little more sympathy for

847
01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:45.440
Carla because it seems like she was
controlled a little bit by Paul. But

848
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:51.159
why I met Canadians not not you? Oh? I really strong. Yeah,

849
01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:52.880
I don't really know if I haven't
interviewed many Canadians, but I would

850
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:58.079
be curious let us know. Yeah, Yeah, Well, thank you all

851
01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:00.760
for listening. We're so grateful for
every single one of you. Yeah,

852
01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:06.000
and follow us on Instagram or Facebook
at love Mary Kill or on Twitter at

853
01:01:06.000 --> 01:01:09.639
elm K pod, and feel free
to send us case suggestions or feedback or

854
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:15.039
snack suggestions. Email us at Love
Mary kill at gmail dot com or via

855
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:19.039
the feedback form on our link tree. And if you like our podcast,

856
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:22.800
give us a rating, a review, or subscribe. You really appreciate that

857
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:27.599
as well. I'm really sorry for
putting you all through this episode. She'll

858
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:30.360
really bad. I mean, they're
all horrible, but this one just weighs

859
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:34.199
on my heart so heavy. But
anyway, anyway, until next time,

860
01:01:34.320 --> 01:02:21.920
don't kill your husband and don't kill
your wife. It would be discovered.

861
01:02:22.119 --> 01:02:27.880
La la la la la. Well
you had that