Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka (The Ken and Barbie killers) - Part 2

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Hi, I'm Tina, and I'm
Rich. And if there's one thing we've

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learned in over twenty years of marriage, some days you'll feel like killing your

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wife, and some days you'll feel
like killing your husband. Welcome to love,

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Mary Kill, Hey Rich, Hey
Tina, welcome back. How are

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you. I'm doing great, You're
doing great. Great, So we've I

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don't think we've ever done it like
this before, but we are recording part

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two of this episode, and we
did part one like hours earlier. Usually

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we just go right back to back
and do it all at once. But

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I wasn't sure I had the energy, and I'm still not sure I had

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the energy have the energy. So
I'm just gonna have you read it.

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It's all put it out here for
you. Would you mind? I'm pretty

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sure after how horrible episode one is, no one's gonna come back to listen

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to episode too. I don't know
about that. We have really dedicated listeners.

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Well, I think they they think
that we are discerning and won't do

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such horrible crimes either. All bad, I mean, but this one is,

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this one particularly got to me.
Well, some people are just like

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they just seem like they're evil,
like they have no redeeming qualities at all.

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And Paul Bernardo seems to me,
Harla, maybe not quite as bad

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to talk about it at the end. What you think at the end,

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because I I'm not sure what I
think. Yeah, I don't know,

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And I think that's a lot of
people are really conflicted, not conflicted.

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I'm conflicted and I don't know if
everyone is. Yeah, yeah, well

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we'll have that. We'll have that
discussion at the end. Well, what

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else is going on? Do you
have anything for us? Well, I

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you know, I do. I
love Canada and still love Canada. Yeah,

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it's a great country and I spent
a lot of time there when I

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was younger, both both because of
the drinking age of their is nineteen and

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when you to be a nineteen year
old in the Detroit area, you go

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there a lot. I think I've
mentioned that before. But I also I've

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been camping there a lot. We've
been camping there, We've went gone to

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Toronto and spent time there. We
need to go back. It's been a

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long time since we've been there,
for sure. So anyway, I found

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some fun facts about Canada. Fun
facts. I'm having to day that they

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are fun facts. This is courtesy
of a website called the Boutique Adventure dot

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Com. Okay, all right,
so I'm gonna read. I won't read

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all these there's a lot. But
Canada is home to the longest street in

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the world. Young Street in Ontario
runs almost twelve hundred miles. Oh,

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we were there. Canada has one
hundred and twenty five thousand miles of coastline,

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the longest coastline in the world.
It would take four and a half

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years to walk the length of Canada's
coastline, and it borders three different oceans,

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Pacific, Atlanta, and the York. You do some only a big

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Canada fan. I am here,
canuck. I didn't know this. The

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United States has invaded Canada twice.
I did not know that. Dare we

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do that? Seventeen seventy five and
eighteen twelve, and we lost both times.

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That's kind of mean. You know, this was back in the day.

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Are slightly more passive than America.
I think if we were to invade

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Canada now, we would It wouldn't
be that difficult. I don't know.

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I think Canada isn't is a little
more aggressive than they used to be.

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Actually recently, and I might have
even mentioned of the podcast. I think

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Americans were voted friendlier than Canadians,
which what is kind of shocked. I'm

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shocked by that. It's probably just
some one off poll that I read.

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Yeah, so appropriately. The name
Canada came about through a polite misunderstanding.

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Jacques Cartier, and explorer from France, met with local natives who invited them

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him to visit their kannata, which
is the local word for village. He

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and his group thought that Kannada or
Canada was the name of the entire country.

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M Is that true? I'm sure
these are altr The boutique Adventure would

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not lie to us. Oh,
this is the weirdest one. This is

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really bizarre. If you visit Dawson
City in the Yukon, you could become

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a member of the sour Toe Cocktail
Club. A sour toe cocktail is any

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drink with a real human toe in
the bottom. I'm going to pass on

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that. The rules are that you
can have any drink you want and consume

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it at any pace, but your
mouth must touch the toe. The toes

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have generally been donated by people who
have suffered from frostbite. That's well,

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that is a really weird one.
Canada is the second largest country in the

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world by total area. Yeah,
it's it's kind of bigger than I think

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most people that I imagine. All
right, gonna give you one more and

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then we should wrap it up.
Oh, okay, let me find a

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good one. Then. Oh,
Canada eats more donuts than any other country

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in the world. We are going
to talk about Tim Horton's just for a

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millisecond in my episode, so we
can circle back to Tim Horton's. And

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yeah, they also have they have
more doughnut shops per capita than any other

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country in the world as well,
so that was part of the same same

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fact. So ah, right,
So should we have a snare? Stea's

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a little tired today, that's okay, Well, we gotta we have to

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have our ho hoes. We talked
about it in the last episode. We

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had twinkies, and this one we're
having ho hoes. And we're doing that

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because the Great British Baking Show Paul
and Prue did a little taste they tried

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them. So yeah, I actually
just brushed my teeth. I really,

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I don't know if I've ever had
hoes, to be honest, I maybe

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I'm sure I had a hoe before. You have your little noise right there,

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okay, a little delayed spot.
Okay, yeah, you've definitely had

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a hoe before. Probably it's the
same thing as a Swiss roll in Little

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debbut world. Well, it's kind
of confusing too, because the Coasts has

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the cupcakes. Well, there's the
d kingdoms. Yeah, there's the whole

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and they're all basically the same thing. Yeah, pretty much different shapes,

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all right. I think my favorite
is the cupcake. Yeah, okay,

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I'm gonna open this will be your
back, all right? How do you

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feel about that? Hoo? I'm
still picking up little pieces of chocolate off

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my MacBook here. It's really I
don't remember it being so crumbly. I

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know, I like the hoho itself, but the waxy chocolate coating on the

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outside just crumbles all over the place. That's a good description because it is

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really waxy. Yeah. I didn't
love that part of it, but overall

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I think it was good. I
don't know if I like it better than

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the Twinkies, but I definitely like
it better than the twinkie. Yeah.

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Yeah, and Prue, I believe
she preferred the Twinkies. She actually kind

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of liked the twinkie and she didn't
like she has a very discerning palette,

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like myself. It's like yourself.
Well, and we didn't mention this before,

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but she said the twinkie has a
slight, very slight lemon taste.

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Remember that, I don't. I
don't give that, maybe just a smidge.

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Maybe maybe they're different. And I
don't know if she tasted in the

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UK or here, but maybe it's
more lemony than they could be. So

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which you preferred the twinkie just barely? They're they're both pretty good. I

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think it's ridiculous that we're actually tasting
host of snacks and like talking about it

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like anyone. I don't care.
Maybe I don't know again procrastinating. Yeah,

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Part two is Part one is probably
a little rougher than part two.

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Part two is more about the judicial
system. But do you want to do

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a little recap. We're in trouble, guys were trouble. I can try

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to do a recap. You're probably
gonna miss some of the details. But

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well, to be I should mention
too that I did a like I read

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the six hundred page book. We'll
talk about the book at the end.

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Two I have some thoughts about that, and I think I have thirteen sources.

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Uh this this hate. There's so
many books on this, and there's

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so many document There's a lot out
there, and so I obviously couldn't digest

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all of it. Yeah, so
I apologize if I missed anything, but

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I did I did my best.
Yeah, this is one of those cases.

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I'm sure you could research for a
year and yeah, this is probably

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still a twelve part episode. Yeah, yeah for sure. Okay, well

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here's my recap. So, uh, Carla Homolka and Paul Bernardo. Paul

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was born in nineteen sixty four.
Carlo was six years younger than him.

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Uh, Carlo was kind of a
little bit wild, Like her fashion sense

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was a little bit wild. She
liked to dye her hair different colors,

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and she liked to wear her what
was it long underwear under shorts or something

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like that. They're like men's boxer
shorts. Yeah, that's very, very

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strange. But she just seemed like
a little bit of a rebel in terms

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of fashion. Paul was came from
a family that was pretty messed up.

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His uh what who he thought was
his dad, which turned out to actually

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not be his real father. Was
a real asshole. Sounded like when he

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was disgusting, he was disgusting.
Yeah, he molested Paul's sister in front

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of the family and just horrible things, alcoholic. Yeah, just sounded a

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very very dysfunctional family. But Paul
was very good looking, very confident,

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good at talking, very slick,
and so he had a lot of He

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got a lot of girls, and
he really seemed to like that. His

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two goals in life were really money
and girls, especially like young girls.

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He his goal was to you know, take girls virginity as much as he

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could. He had kind of an
obsession with younger girls. And yeah,

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just kind of a a not a
good guy, one of the worst.

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Yeah, horrible, horrible guy.
But even like when he was younger,

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he was just seemed like he was
very cocky, just self absorbed and really

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just was gonna do what he was
going to do and definitely didn't really care

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about anyone else. He and Carla
met when Carla was seventeen. They met

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at a Howard Johnson's. Carla was
there on a trip for her work at

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the veterinary Clinic or She first worked
at the pet store and then she later

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worked at the vet gotcha. But
they met and it was love at first

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sight. They were having sex within
an hour of meeting, which is crazy,

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and then kind of fast forward,
their relationship went really quickly. Carlo

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was head over heels and love.
Paul was very controlling. He would kind

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of tell her how to dress,
and she started losing weight even though she

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really didn't need to lose weight,
and it just sounded like he was very

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controlling over everything that she did and
wanted her to dress a certain way and

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wear her hair the way he wanted. Appearances were very important to Paul.

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Yeah, and Carla had a younger
sister, Tammy, who Paul was kind

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of obsessed with. She was maybe
three or four years younger than Carla,

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and Paul didn't want He hated the
thought of anyone else taking her virginity,

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and right before Tammy turned sixteen at
Christmas time, he and Carla basically they

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killed her. I mean they raped
her and killed her and it was super

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horrible. Carla got drugs from the
clinics she worked at, or the pet

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store and used those, but it
wasn't it was ruled an accident. Nobody

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the investigation wasn't super though it sounds
like or they didn't follow through as much

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as they probably it's Tammy's I don't
know if they purposely killed her or not.

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It might have been. Paul definitely
didn't intend to kill Tammy, but

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it's questionable as to whether right Carla
could have intended to kill her, and

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Carla it was. She basically said
that this was like her gift to Paul,

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right her Christmas sister's virginity was just
disgusting. There was so Paul lived

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in a town called Scarborough, and
I think I kind of missed this because

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it happened before Tammy was killed,
But there was a Scarborough rapist who raped

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at least fourteen girls and women over
the course of four years. Paul did

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actually give his DNA in that case, but the DNA lab was so backed

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up that they never really got to
it. I feel like you're giving the

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whole episode here. There was a
sketch artist that did a sketch that looked

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exactly like Paul, and a lot
of Paul's friends were like, Paul,

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this is you, and but he
never he never got caught for that at

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that time at least, and then
starting like around the time of Paul and

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Carla's wedding in June of nineteen ninety
one, some other girls started turning up,

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you know, their bodies started turning
up. There was a girl,

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Leslie, who was and she was
fourteen. Yeah, and her body was

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dismembered and put into concrete and put
into a lake, which is, yeah,

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horrible. I didn't mention this on
the first episode, but someone actually

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said, well, you know,
whoever dumped Leslie's body in the lake didn't

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know that in the summertime, the
lake always goes down several inches, so

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they were like a local would have
known not to put her body in the

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water. Yeah, because it might
not have been discovered. But I don't

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think they got the blocks. I
even hate talking about like visualizing this,

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but they weren't as deep into the
water as they could have been. Yeah,

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that makes sense. And then there
was another girl, Kristen French,

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who was fifteen, who was killed, and I'm sure that I think there

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was another two, but I don't. I didn't write that down there.

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Well, so far we have we
have Tammy and Leslie and Kristen. Okay,

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I did get them all, and
you did. You did a fabulous

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job. And that's that's where we
left off. One of the girl's disappearances

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happened before the wedding, and the
other happened after their wedding. All right,

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I guess I can't procrastinate anymore.
No, we don't have anything else

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to talk about. The weather?
What was rainy the first half of our

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episode? And now let's could talk
about Casey caseym again. I did,

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by the way, I pulled that
clip that you mentioned in the last episode,

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and I put it in there because
I thought it's such a funny clip.

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I haven't heard it a long time, but I literally think about that

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all the time when we have to
go from one subject to the next,

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and it's like, well, we
always have to wrap up our episode,

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and we like try to yeah yeah, so yeah, well thanks for doing

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that. All right, all right, so see you next time. Oh

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wait, wait, okay, I
have to tell you how us the rest

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of the story. All right.
After the wedding, the newly weds seemed

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to be struggling. Their lovely house
never got entirely furnished, and both Paul

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and Carla's appearances lack the fashionable clothing
they usually bought every season. They were

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both drinking in excess whenever they went
out with friends, the night ended badly.

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Paul would get too drunk and hit
on girls, sometimes kissing them.

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One night, Paul, a seventeen
year old, back to the house to

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have sex while Carlos slept. So
when Paul was younger, like as he's

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aging, I think the girls find
him more creepy. I would hope,

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right, But I think it became
like a little harder to get the girls

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to come back to the house as
he got older, and they were just

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like, oh, you're married and
you're old. And she never blamed Paul.

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She either blamed herself or the other
girls. Paul had told her after

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they were married that he would continue
to see other women, and Carla didn't

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have much to say in the matter, though at that point I think she

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just cared less too. In September
of nineteen ninety one, Kathy, a

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good friend of Carlo's, finally got
the phone call she had been waiting for.

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Carlo sounded upset and asked her if
they could meet for lunch. During

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lunch, Carlo swore Kathy to secrecy
and begged her not to tell anyone that

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they were having lunch together. Carla
told Kathy that she was unhappy and Paul

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was mean, controlling, and verbally
abusive to her. He wouldn't let her

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get her driver's license or go back
to school. Kathy knew that Paul was

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physically abusive to Carlos. She'd witnessed
his temper and she'd seen the frequent bruises

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on Carlo's body. Carly became angry
when Kathy asked her if Paul had physically

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abused her. She adamantly denied it
and ended their lunch. The next time

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she saw Carlos, she acted as
if everything was great. In the spring

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of nineteen ninety two, Paul's best
friend Van was working at his father's restaurant

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when Ontario Provincial Police Constable Rob Haney
came in to eat. For months,

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the thought that Paul could have had
something to do with the disappearances of Leslie

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Mahaffee and Kristen French niggled at the
back of his mind. He even thought

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it was possible that his oldest and
best friend could be the Scarborough rapist.

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The rapes had stopped after Paul had
left Scarborough, and he'd heard Paul say

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outrageous things through the years, like
wanting to start a virgin farm officer Rob

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listened carefully as Van told him about
his suspicions. He said he'd passed the

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information along. Eleven days later,
on May twelve, two detectives knocked on

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Paul Bernardo's door. He talked to
them for about twenty minutes. He admitted

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that he had given a DNA sample
during the Scarboard Scarborough rapist investigation, but

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he had never been contacted again.
The detectives asked him where he'd been on

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April sixteenth, the day of Kristin
French's disappearance, and he told them that

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he'd been home working on his rap
album. I forgot to mention Paul was

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00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.920
into rap music now and he believed
he could be a rapper. He had

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no music training whatsoever, but he
bought thousands of dollars of equipment to produce

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music and burn CDs. His lyrics
revolved around misogyny, sexual fantasy, power

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and domination, and his look also
changed at this time. He became a

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little more punk looking. Yeah,
I hope no audio exists of his rapping.

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00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.039
If it does, I don't want
to hear it. So okay,

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00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.160
well you can, Yeah, I'll
just delete the next clip no, I

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didn't look for it. No,
I didn't. The detectives had a lot

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of people to interview, and Paul
didn't register as a serious, viable suspect

250
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.960
in their minds. Carlo struck up
an odd friendship with a sixteen year old

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girl named Jane. Okay, Jane, she's Jane Doe, so we're using

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the name Jane. Jane and her
mom used to come into the pet store

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where Carlo worked, and they had
become friends with her. She would come

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over and watch movies with Carla and
Paul and even spend the night. On

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one occasion, carl gave her some
peach schnaps and in the morning, Jane

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couldn't remember anything, but she felt
horrible. Jane's mother became increasingly uncomfortable with

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the relationship and tried to limit the
time Jane's spent with Carla and Paul.

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A coaches of Jane's had called her
mother and told her that Jane had confided

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in her that Paul touched Jane's breasts. Her mother confronted Paul, he became

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my rate and kicked her out of
the house. Carla and Paul also began

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spending time with seventeen year old Becky, who had been Tammy's best friend.

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Becky was still grieving her friend and
was comforted by spending time with Carla and

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Paul. She began spending the night
too, and was also given drugs and

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alcohol. Paul would sleep next to
her on the floor and try to kiss

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and fondle her. Carla told her
it was okay that they were she didn't

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mind at all if they messed around. They even took her on trips to

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Toronto for weekends, staying in five
star hotels and buying her lavish gifts.

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It became Paul's goal to flower these
two girls. On December twenty third,

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nineteen ninety two, two years to
the day since Tammy's death, Paul told

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Becky something that would torment her for
years to come. He got into bed

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with her and told her that he
had been Tammy's first lover in the summer

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before her death. He said he
had her bloody underwear to prove it.

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He then raped Becky, but despite
this horrible behavior, she continued to keep

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on coming over to the Bernardo's house. So I didn't talk about this on

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the first episode, but there were
rumors that Paul had raped Becky I'm sorry.

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Paul had raped Tammy summer before her
death, and I the story.

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Sometimes it's hard to know what the
truth is. Because you have Carlo's story

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00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:14.440
and you have Paul's story. There's
just no way to know what the truth

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is. Carlo's appearance began to concern
her friends and co workers. She was

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constantly bruised or injured. She always
had an excuse for her injuries, like

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Buddy the dog had jumped on her. She was too thin, anxious,

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and joyless. Wendy, one of
her co workers, called Dorothy Homoka anonymously

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to tell her that Carlo was being
abused by her husband. Wendy had another

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friend also called Dorothy and tell her
that she needed to get over there.

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Your daughter is suffering. That night, Dorothy and Carol went to Carla's but

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no one opened the door. They
went to a convenience store and called nine

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00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:52.400
one one. Two police cars and
an ambulance arrived at the house, but

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00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.680
no one answered the door and the
police refused to break the door down.

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00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.759
The Next day, Dorothy went to
the animal clinic and demanded to see Carla.

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She was shocked and saddened when she
saw Carla. She had two very

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00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.079
black eyes, her face was grotesquely
swollen, and her body was covered in

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00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.839
bruises. Dorothy would later recall that
she felt like she was going to have

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a heart attack when she saw her
daughter. Now, I was just telling

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00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.079
you that I was going to show
you a picture, but you said you

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00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:22.039
saw it. Yeah, describe the
picture. I mean, I'll post it.

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00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:23.759
Oh, I mean the bruises are
just horrible, I think, really,

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like just really the worst black eyes
I've ever seen. Yeah, like

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they just huge, both eyes or
it's horrendous. Carla tried to tell her

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that she had been in a car
accident, but Dorothy wasn't buying it.

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Eventually, Carla admitted that Paul had
beaten her with a heavy duty flashlight.

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Dorothy quickly made a plan. Carlo
would go home as usual, but they

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would pick her up later that evening
after Paul had gone out for the night,

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and Carlo would stay with a friend
of her sister, Laurie's, whose

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husband was a Toronto police officer.
They made Carla call the police to file

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a report against Paul. The police
determined that she should go to the hospital.

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She remained there for three days,
recovering and receiving treatment. The emergency

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00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:10.759
room doctor called Carla's injuries the worst
case of wife assault he'd ever seen.

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Carlo was also given a thorough psychological
evaluation. And so like these the beating

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with the black guys had app happened
like days before. I can't imagine what

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it looked like. Yeah, the
police took photos of her injuries. Virtually

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00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.920
every inch of her body was covered
in bruises, and the beating had occurred

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00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:36.839
over a week previously. She also
had a lot of scarring from previous injuries.

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After Carlo was released, the Homolkas
took her to stay with Dorothy's brother

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00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:45.480
Kelvin and his wife Patty. They
lived about an hour away where they thought

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00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:49.079
that Carlo would be safe, and
Carlo began to open up about the abuse

316
00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:52.480
to her aunt, Patty and how
it started quickly after she had been dating

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00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:56.400
Paul. He once pushed her out
of a moving car and she fell into

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00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:02.839
the mud. After the beatings came
apology gifts and promises it would never happen

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00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:07.279
again, but of course it did. Smells were especially triggering for Paul,

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and oftentimes he would beat her just
because he didn't like what she'd cooked or

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00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:15.000
the way she smelled after work.
The beatings had become daily after the wedding,

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00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:18.519
and there were no more apologies.
Dorothy took Carla to an attorney to

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start divorce proceedings. She remained living
with her uncle and aunt, hidden from

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00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:27.119
Paul, but Carlo was enjoying her
newfound freedom. She went out to bars

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00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:32.839
and became a little wild, meeting
men whenever she could, and she quickly

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00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:38.960
acquired a new boyfriend. Meanwhile,
Paul was devastated and recorded unhinged cassette tapes

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00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:41.799
for his wife. Here's an excerpt. Do you want to read it?

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00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:47.240
My dearest Carla, It's been five
days now, God, it seems like

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00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:49.880
a lifetime, kind of like when
Tammy died. I realized, now you're

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00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.519
never coming back. Fucking kills me. Pal. I wish I just could

331
00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:56.559
have been given a second chance to
make things right again, to make it

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00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.200
all better. I could have,
you know, I really could have.

333
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:03.960
I know you did what you had
to do, and I don't blame you

334
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:06.759
for it. In fact, it
was the best thing you could have done

335
00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:10.039
for me. Snapped me out of
whatever state I was in, made me

336
00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:12.240
realize how much I love you and
care for you. How important you are

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00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.759
in my life. You are the
most special person who ever touched my life,

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00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:21.200
Carla, Yes, even more than
Tammy. Here's the problem, car

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00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:23.640
I tried to be larger than life. I really did. But see,

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00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.640
I didn't try to be average,
like the average guy. I tried to

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00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:30.759
be larger. I tried to be
the best thing that there ever was.

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00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:34.599
Maybe because I needed love. Maybe
I don't know why. I wanted to

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00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:40.000
get Tammy the forest green Porsche.
I wanted to have your parents on speed

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00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:42.279
boats. I wanted to take care
of you and have this huge house with

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00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.759
the four children. I wanted to
be greater than anything there was. And

346
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.839
when I didn't reach it, I
got frustrated and angry, and I took

347
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.240
it out on you, the person
I love the most. Don't hate me

348
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:57.119
for that, please, just please
don't hate me for mom's genetics right the

349
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:03.960
weak side. What a guy?
Yeah, what a guy? What a

350
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:07.599
piece of garbage? Huh? I
mean garbage is too kind? Yes,

351
00:25:07.880 --> 00:25:11.279
for sure. On Tuesday, February
nine, twenty twenty three, as I'm

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00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.799
reading this, I realized that I
met nineteen ninety three. And that's what

353
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.319
happens when you write your script at
two thirty in the morning, the Metro

354
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:23.480
Toronto police came to Carla's uncle's house
to officially interview her. The interview lasted

355
00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.839
for five hours. It was clear
the police were there for more than the

356
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:33.359
Bernardo's domestic violent situation. They asked
Carla farr reaching questions about Paul and his

357
00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.440
sexual preferences, aunt his whereabouts on
certain days and times. They didn't ask

358
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.799
her any direct questions about the Scarborough
rapist, but danced around it. At

359
00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.279
the end of the interviews, they
told Carla that they would be arresting Paul

360
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.960
in the coming weeks, but didn't
tell her why. After the police left,

361
00:25:51.119 --> 00:25:56.160
Carla told her aunt and uncle that
Paul was the Scarborough rapist. Paul

362
00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.640
had told her that he was the
rapist on their honeymoon, and I guess

363
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:06.279
she was like, like, oh, that's cool, Paul. Carla also

364
00:26:06.759 --> 00:26:10.359
told her aunt and uncle that Paul
had killed Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French.

365
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:14.680
She admitted that she had been involved, and Paul had made her cut the

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00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.759
girl's hair and have sex with both
of them while he videotaped it. Paul

367
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.200
had warned Carla that he would use
the tapes against her if she ever thought

368
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.440
of going to the police. She
tried looking for the tapes, but she

369
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:29.680
couldn't find them. Before she left
the house for the last time, Carla

370
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.640
told her aunt that Paul was preparing
to abduct another girl to use as a

371
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.440
sex slave, and he was going
to make Carla kill the girl. This

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00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:42.640
time, the police began surveilling Carla. The manager of the complex for Patti

373
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:48.359
and Kelvin lived confided in them that
the police had rented two units. Carla

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00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.279
hired an attorney, and in March
she checked into the Northwestern General Hospital,

375
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:57.920
where she underwent seven weeks of intensive
psychological evaluation. During her hospital stay,

376
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.119
Carlo wrote a letter to her family
admitting her involvement in Tammy's death. So

377
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:07.240
at this point, she hasn't told
the police everything that she knows because she's

378
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:11.599
kind of holding that back, right, But she told their aunt and uncle,

379
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.279
right, and I would think they
would go to the police. I

380
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:21.079
think there was they probably were formula. It made me contacted an attorney at

381
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:23.920
this point, so I think the
attorney was telling the family and we're trying

382
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:27.920
to protect Carla more than but I
don't know. Yeah, yeah, it's

383
00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:33.920
pretty gross. On February seventeenth,
nineteen ninety three, Paul Bernardo was arrested

384
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.240
for the murders of Leslie Mahafe,
Christian French, and the rapes of multiple

385
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:41.920
women. The media rushed to cover
the story. It was shocking that two

386
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:45.799
of the biggest crimes in Canadian history
were committed by the same man, Paul

387
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:51.640
Bernardo. In January, the CFS
finally returned the results from the Scarborough rapist

388
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.960
samples. They concluded that there were
six possible suspects from the saliva test and

389
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.799
they were beginning to work on the
DNA samples. No rush or anything may

390
00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.680
take your time. A week later, the test confirmed that Paul Bernardo was

391
00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:08.880
the Scarborough rapist. It hurts to
think that the CFast if they had been

392
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:14.519
able to do their job in a
timely fashion. Doesn't it just break your

393
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:18.720
heart? Does? Review of the
case revealed that the police had interviewed Paul

394
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.680
in November of nineteen ninety after his
ex girlfriend called the police with a tip

395
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.440
that she thought he was the rapist. He really should have been caught much

396
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.279
sooner. Police decided that they needed
to take another look at the death of

397
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:36.160
Tammy Himulka. During Paul's interrogation,
more than twenty criminal profilers, psychologist and

398
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:41.319
other law enforcement professionals watched him on
closed circuit television. The police told Paul

399
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:45.759
what they knew and implied that Carlo
had ratted him out, but Paul steadfastly

400
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:51.359
tonight everything he was accused of.
After hours, he finally asked for a

401
00:28:51.440 --> 00:28:56.880
lawyer. Carlo was shocked by the
media attention Paul's arrest garnered. The coverage

402
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.000
was NonStop on TV, radio,
and print media. Was literally like the

403
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:04.440
biggest story ever. Pictures of her
husband dog in the house were shown on

404
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:08.319
TV over and over. It was
jarring and stressful for her. This isn't

405
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:14.880
me inserting compassion, She began taking
leftover pain killers from her hospital stay and

406
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.480
drinking heavily. As the news of
Paul's arrest and involvement in such heinous crimes,

407
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.599
his friends and acquaintances felt varying degrees
of shock, disgust, and guilt

408
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:27.880
that they hadn't come forward earlier to
voice their concerns. Paul's father, Ken,

409
00:29:27.960 --> 00:29:32.960
had been convicted of sexual crimes and
assaults dating back to the nineteen sixties

410
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.160
just a week before Paul's arrest.
At the first hearing, Paul was charged

411
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.599
with forty five sex related crimes,
but not yet murder. It was rumored

412
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:48.559
that Paul had an erection during Oh
God, He's just a sick, sick,

413
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.319
sick man. Marilyn, Paul's mother, who had struggled with her mental

414
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:56.519
health over the years, didn't seem
to mind talking to the media, but

415
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.759
she was tired of them following her
everywhere. She explained that she had been

416
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.359
a strange I'm sorry to laugh.
This part just makes me laugh. She

417
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.680
explained that she had been a strange
from Paul since his wedding. He'd been

418
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.799
angry at her for requesting an alternate
meal instead of the pheasant that was served.

419
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.720
It caused like a big fight.
The police, like I said,

420
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.519
had very little evidence connecting Paul to
the murders of Leslie and Kristen. They

421
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:25.240
began a thorough critical search of the
pink Cape Cod house that Paul and Carla

422
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.799
had lived in for two years.
They were really hoping to find the videotapes

423
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.920
that Carla had told them about.
It had been twenty months since the murder

424
00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:37.079
of Leslie and ten months since the
murder of Kristen, so investigators knew it

425
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:41.000
would be challenging to find any useful
evidence in the house. The team entered

426
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:45.000
the house wearing white hazmat suits,
hairnets, shoe covers, and air packs

427
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:51.319
borrowed from the fire department. They
literally left no stone unturned during the seventy

428
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:56.880
one day search. Seventy one days
since Little Cape Cod house. They ripped

429
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.920
up carpet, disassembled the stairs,
it ripped up the drain systems, scanned

430
00:31:00.920 --> 00:31:04.079
the walls for blood and tissue,
but they found very little evidence proving the

431
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:07.799
girls had ever been in the house, and the alleged tapes were still missing.

432
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:11.079
The search was largely a bust,
but a few items were found.

433
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.759
A six inch knife was found in
the rafters of the garage, a test

434
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:18.519
tube in a drawer that was filled
with helcion, which is a sedative,

435
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:22.759
a stun gun, handcuffs, a
quilt with a spot of blood that was

436
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.960
found to be Leslie's, and a
vomit stain on the carpet found to be

437
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:32.240
Christen's. The critical videotapes were not
found, much to the grave disappointment of

438
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:36.920
law enforcement. The search warrants had
been extended twice and when they expired in

439
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:40.519
April, they wouldn't be renewed again. After the police were done with the

440
00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:42.880
search, Paul's lawyer, Ken Murray
asked if he could go through the house

441
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:48.640
and collect a few personal items that
Paul had requested, and he was granted

442
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:53.680
access to the house. Guess what
he found. They found the six tapes

443
00:31:53.759 --> 00:32:00.519
and a recessed bathroom lighting fixture.
Why isn't it wild? Wild? I

444
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.480
mean, I think Paul just knew
where they were, and I think Paul

445
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:05.279
was just crossing his fingers the whole
time, thinking I hope they don't find

446
00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:08.440
him, and they didn't. So
did Paul tell his attorney where they were?

447
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:12.440
Okay, yeah, no, yeah, attorney didn't just walk in.

448
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.720
And I think that the story was
like Paul had it written on a little

449
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.279
piece of paper and he just slid
it to his attorney. And what did

450
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.400
the attorney do with these? Well, that's what I'm about to tell you.

451
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.720
So he kept the tapes to himself
for over a year. He planned

452
00:32:25.720 --> 00:32:29.480
to shock the courtroom in the world
by playing the tapes at the trial for

453
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:34.599
the first time, which would discredit
Carla. Their contents were shocking. The

454
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:37.599
tapes revealed that Carlo was an active
and willing participant in the sexual assaults,

455
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:44.079
at times instigating the abuse. And
most shocking of all was the rape of

456
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:47.960
Tammy Homolka by both Carla and Paul. The people that viewed the tapes would

457
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:52.559
never be the same. Again,
that's I can't imagine. That's horrifying.

458
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:57.799
But wouldn't wouldn't the tapes incriminate Paul
as much as they incriminated Carlo? So

459
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:04.119
why would his lawyer want to show
those Because Carlo she had testified to or

460
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.200
well, I guess we haven't really
gotten there yet, but she'll testify to

461
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:10.400
it was Paul. You know,
Paul did everything, but she was an

462
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:15.759
active participant, all right. So
I'm going to go through the timeline really

463
00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:17.880
quick because I've given you a lot
of dates. So Paul is born in

464
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:22.880
sixty four, Carlo was born in
nineteen seventy. Nineteen eighty seven is when

465
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:29.279
the first rapes happened. But then
some people actually say that there were probably

466
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:34.359
rapes that happened in nineteen eighty six
that weren't credited to the Scarboard rapist.

467
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.079
And you know, again, we
really don't know how many rapes. There's

468
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:43.920
probably a minimum of twenty in nineteen
eighty seven. In October of nineteen eighty

469
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:49.960
seven, Carla and Paul matt in
Scarborough. In November of nineteen ninety,

470
00:33:49.960 --> 00:33:52.799
Paul was investigated by the police for
the first time and he gave his DNA

471
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:58.839
sample. They were engaged in December
of eighty nine. Tammy died in December

472
00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:04.319
of nineteen ninety In January, I
haven't I haven't talked about this one yet.

473
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:08.840
So Tammy died in December, and
in January, Paul and Tammy pick

474
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:13.000
up a girl and they bring her
back to the Homolica residence just a few

475
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:19.960
weeks after Tammy's death. Mom and
Dad are there. I think they just

476
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.559
took a like a mini trip and
they bring this girl back to the house

477
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.800
and she is raped in Carlo's bed
while Carlo watches, and then they dropped

478
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.840
her off in an alley and they
refer to her later on as January Girl.

479
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:37.960
In February of ninety one, Paul
and Carlo move into their own house.

480
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:45.920
In June fifteenth of nineteen ninety one, Leslie went missing. Two weeks

481
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:50.639
later, Leslie's body is found the
same day that they're married. In April

482
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:54.400
of nineteen ninety two, Kristen is
abducted and then killed three days later,

483
00:34:55.719 --> 00:35:01.320
and then her body is found two
weeks later on April thirty. If so,

484
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:06.760
then that takes us to January of
ninety three. That's when Carla is

485
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:10.480
beaten and she leaves Paul, and
then Paul is arrested in February of ninety

486
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:15.840
three. Does that make clear?
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of

487
00:35:15.880 --> 00:35:22.000
dates. Yeah. Carlo was charged
with two counts of manslaughter in May of

488
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.199
nineteen ninety three. She appeared before
the judge on May eighteenth, who set

489
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:30.159
bail for one hundred and ten thousand
dollars with the agreement that she would live

490
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:34.280
with her parents and abstain from drugs
and alcohol. Carlo waved her right to

491
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:37.440
a preliminary trial, allowing her case
to quickly go to trial on June twenty

492
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:42.800
eighth, which was super quick.
Yeah. What happened next is possibly the

493
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:47.000
most controversial decision in the history of
Canada's judicial system. There had been whispers

494
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:52.920
for months that Carla had struck a
sweet plea deal for her testimony against Paul

495
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:58.000
at his trial. The judge imposed
a media blackout during Carl's Carlo's trial to

496
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:00.519
try to keep the details private to
or Paul was given a fair trial.

497
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:07.280
Both the media and the public were
angered with this decision. Everyone was hungry

498
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.000
for details of the evidence against Carla. The media blackout didn't pertain to the

499
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:15.440
US, so Canadians tried to get
newspapers from cities just across the border,

500
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:21.880
like Detroit and Buffalo. In January, I'm sorry. On July sixth,

501
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.199
a verdict was reached. Carlo was
found guilty on both counts and sentenced to

502
00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:31.840
twelve years twelve years five years for
Leslie and Kristen each and an additional years

503
00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:36.639
two years for Tammy, which was
the result of the plea deal she had

504
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:38.320
struck with the Crown. And when
I say the crown, do you know

505
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:43.360
what I mean by that, well, like the government? Yeah yeah.

506
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:45.840
In Canada, criminals are prosecuted by
the crown, like here we would say

507
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:50.960
the state, but in Canada it
is referred to as the jone. Carla's

508
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:55.159
first full parole hearing would be in
January nineteen ninety seven, just four years

509
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:59.960
later. The most shocking part of
Carlo's plea deal was that she would be

510
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:06.760
given immunity from any further charges relating
to Tammy's death. Wow. Yeah,

511
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:12.239
it's pretty shocking. And remember at
this point the police really need her testimony

512
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.960
because they don't have the tapes,
right, So, really, the only

513
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:19.480
evidence they're going to have against Paul, other than a couple of little you

514
00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:22.679
know, the blood spot and the
vomit, the only is Carlo's testimony.

515
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:28.639
At this point too, they probably
believe her word that she was not so

516
00:37:28.719 --> 00:37:31.840
much an active participant in the killings, that she was probably more controlled by

517
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:36.159
Paul, because they hadn't seen the
tapes yet either, right, exactly.

518
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:39.559
Yeah, The judge read the following
statement quote from about six months after their

519
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:45.320
meeting, Paul Bernardo commenced a systematic
physical and psychological abuse of the accused.

520
00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:51.159
According to the report of doctor Aren't, the beatings escalated. He strangled her

521
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:53.280
through knives, at her, hit
her with firewood, hit her with his

522
00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:57.960
shoes, and finally with a flashlight. He stabbed her with a screwdriver,

523
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:00.599
pulled handfuls of her hair from her, had punched her, kicked her,

524
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:05.840
and raped her. He pushed her
down the stairs on one occasion her foot

525
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.199
was punctures when she pushed her on
to a board with a rusty nail.

526
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:15.199
He systematically made her feel unworthy and
caught the contact with her family down end

527
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:20.679
quote. So there were some stipulations
and the plea deal allowing the Crown to

528
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:24.480
add additional charges if police discovered that
she was lying or had committed perjury.

529
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:30.480
The deal also forbade Carlo from giving
any public interviews or profiting from the crimes.

530
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:37.280
When Carlo's plea deal was reached,
the videotapes hadn't been public. Later,

531
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.159
when they were played during Paul's trial, it became obvious that Carlo was

532
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:44.719
a more active and willing to participate
participant in the sexual abuse of Tammy,

533
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:49.480
Leslie Kristen and Jane Doe. At
times it seems she enjoyed her part in

534
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:52.719
the abuse, and it was very
apparent that she had lied about her participation

535
00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:57.360
to authorities. Carlo was sent to
Kingston's Prince Prison for Women, where she

536
00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:01.719
resided in solitary confinement, but allowed
a TV in hersell and access to the

537
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:07.039
prison yard one hour a day.
While incarcerated, she took college courses in

538
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:12.239
French and sociology. I saw pictures
of Carlo from prison, and I mean

539
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.239
she was wearing like normal clothes and
she looked kind of I mean, she

540
00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:19.119
looked pretty happy, So that was
kind of crazy. So how they do

541
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:22.159
prison in Canada, I mean,
I don't I don't know if it's probably

542
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:24.920
a women's prison, is not a
you know, maybe they don't have maximum

543
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:30.360
security women's prisons. So Paul's first
attorney, Ken Murray, he was the

544
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:35.039
one who found the tapes, quit
the case just before the trial started.

545
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:39.760
Paul was unhinged, delusional, and
unmanageable. Not surprising, Ken was advised

546
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:43.599
that he needed to turn over the
tapes that he had been sitting on for

547
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:46.639
fifteen months. He gave the tapes
to John Rosen, Paul's new attorney,

548
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:50.679
and led him to decide what to
do with them. And John Rosen did

549
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:53.719
the right thing and he gave the
tape tapes to the police. When they

550
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:59.800
see them for the first time,
they realized again that Carlo Homolka was complicit

551
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:04.079
and she had played the police badly. The tapes revealed an assault they hadn't

552
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.079
known about, the drugging and sexual
assault of an unknown girl the police referred

553
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.239
to as Jane Don't. I'm sorry
Jane Doe, who I told you about.

554
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.039
Carla had never told them about her, so the crime wasn't included in

555
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:17.840
her plea deal. Carla had brought
Jane to the house and drugged her even

556
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:23.599
before Paul was home. Not surprisingly, Paul didn't enjoy prison. He was

557
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:28.519
taunted, bullied, and assaulted many
times by the by the other inmates.

558
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.840
Can you imagine, like, just
like, what would you pay to punch

559
00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:36.880
Paul Bernardo in the face. I
mean, I would just imagine that people

560
00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:40.920
were lined up just punching him,
and I yeah. He hated the food

561
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:45.239
and quickly lost twenty five pounds and
he was quickly served divorce papers from Carla.

562
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:51.440
Paul Bernardo's trial began in May nineteen
ninety five in Toronto, so like

563
00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:55.679
two years almost two years later than
Carlo's trial. The trial was moved from

564
00:40:55.719 --> 00:41:00.159
Saint Catharine's an attempt to shield the
small community from any more media attention and

565
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:07.559
give Paul a better chance for a
fair trial. The media circus was unprecedented.

566
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:12.000
The case had gained worldwide interest,
and hundreds of people gathered daily to

567
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:15.960
try to get into the courtroom.
One five hundred people were called for the

568
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:22.159
jury pool. It's a lot of
people. I think it went a lot

569
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.599
better than they anticipated, though it
took a week to see if the jury,

570
00:41:24.679 --> 00:41:29.880
consisting of eight men and four women
who were not sequestered, do you

571
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:31.760
think that you would have been able
to be an impartial jurord during that trial.

572
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:37.960
I mean it's hard to say.
I don't really remember what I knew

573
00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:40.599
about it or what I didn't,
But if you were around in that area

574
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:44.000
and looking at the news, I
would think it would be hard to be

575
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:47.440
impartial, Yeah, said to them
happy and French families. I just I

576
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:53.199
can't imagine like families that have to
sit through those trials heart wrenching. They

577
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:57.679
attended the trial. Whenever the videotapes
were played, and they were played many

578
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.400
times, most of them left the
courtroom, but great care was taken in

579
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:06.599
shielding them and the other spectators from
seeing the graphic videos by repositioning the screens.

580
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:08.119
But of course it was in their
best interest to leave when the grizzly

581
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:13.840
tapes were played. Paul sat emotionless
as the tapes were played. The charges

582
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:17.400
against him included two counts of first
degree murder, two counts of aggravated sexual

583
00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:22.639
assault, two counts of forcible confinement, two counts of kidnapping, and one

584
00:42:22.719 --> 00:42:27.159
count of performing and on dignity on
a human body. I think that they

585
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:30.639
did not try him for the rape
charges because I think they thought they had

586
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:36.639
enough. Another media blackout was imposed
with a little effect the internet. The

587
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:42.519
Internet. The Internet made it impossible
to keep information locked down. Many witnesses

588
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:45.679
were called, Leslie and Kristen's mothers
among them, as well as Carla's mom.

589
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:49.280
But the witnesses, the witness everyone
was waiting for to hear from,

590
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.840
was, of course, Carla.
People slept in line overnight to see her

591
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:57.000
testify. She testified for nine days
about her childhood and family, and she

592
00:42:57.119 --> 00:43:01.239
said she had a pretty good childhood, even though her father frequently drank and

593
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:06.920
mildly abused her mother. But she
mostly talked about her and Paul and how

594
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.639
they had fallen in love so quickly
and she'd been his princess until about a

595
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:15.119
year until their relationship when Paul began
controlling her and abusing her mentally, physically,

596
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:21.599
and verbally. Carla talked about how
Paul became obsessed with Tammy. In

597
00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:24.960
the summer of nineteen ninety, she
explained that she had stolen from some drugs

598
00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:30.280
from the veterinary clinic where where she
worked, and the plan was for Carla

599
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:32.639
to drug Tammy so Paul could have
sex with her and take her virginity before

600
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:37.679
someone else could. After Tammy's death, Carlo said Paul would force her to

601
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:42.519
pretend to be Tammy during sex.
She revealed that both Leslie and Kristen had

602
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:47.239
been sexually assaulted several times before Paul
strangled them with an electric cord. Prior

603
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:51.639
her to her death, Leslie had
begged for her little to see her little

604
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:58.880
brother again. Poor Debby Mahaffy sobbed
throughout Carlo's testimony. I just feel so

605
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:05.079
those parents can't even imagine going through
what they went through. Carla talked about

606
00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:07.440
how the daily abuse escalated after they
had moved out of her parents home.

607
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:10.880
Paul frequently kicked her out of bed, and she usually had to sleep on

608
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:15.400
the floor or sometimes in the root
cellar. The glaring issue with Carlo's testimony

609
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:19.880
was that on the videotape she appeared
to be happy and a willing participant.

610
00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:22.400
She explained this a way by saying
that Paul had coached her on what to

611
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:27.320
say while they were being taped,
and she learned that if she didn't perform

612
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:31.639
well when she was being videotaped,
Paul would later beat her. Carla call

613
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:36.800
recalled nightmarish stories of her daily life
with Paul. Being beaten and tortured.

614
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.400
He would often say to her battle
cost of five or ten when he became

615
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:44.119
angry, and then he would later
punch her or hit her with his favorite

616
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:47.679
torture device, the flashlight. Any
affection between Carla and Paul dissolved, and

617
00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:52.079
only abuse and torture remained. Paul
still used Carla for sex, but usually

618
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:57.400
anal sex. In January nineteen ninety
three, when her parents helped her leave

619
00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:00.599
Paul, she looked for the tapes
but couldn't find them. At the end

620
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.840
of her testimony for the Crown,
Carla said, quote prison is not nearly

621
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.360
punishment enough for what I've done.
The real punishment is having to live with

622
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:10.760
the guilt and the shame for the
rest of my life and never being able

623
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:14.400
to make it up. But it's
a lot better than living with Paul.

624
00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:16.119
I have a lot more freedom in
prison than I ever did with him,

625
00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:21.639
and quote. Next was the Crown's
turn to question Carla, and it was

626
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:27.039
a deservedly brutal seven day cross examination. Whenever I hear like a seven day

627
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:31.679
cross examination. I just can't.
It's hard to imagine. I get worn

628
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:35.599
out being in a meeting for more
than an hour. I get worn out

629
00:45:35.639 --> 00:45:39.039
sitting here for two hours. You
know, it wasn't public knowledge that Carla

630
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:45.000
would be eligible for unescorted temporary absences
as of July sixth, nineteen ninety five,

631
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:50.400
only two days away day parole January
sixth, nineteen ninety seven, and

632
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:53.480
full parole on July sixth, nineteen
ninety seven. In Canada, I think

633
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:58.320
they have a graduated parole system where
you get like a few hours, and

634
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:00.920
then you get a day and then
I think it makes sense pretty good at

635
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:08.320
those Canadians. After a testimony was
given against Paul, she would be immune

636
00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:14.360
from future prosecution. Paul's defense lawyer, John Rosen had one goal to paint

637
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:21.440
Carla as a sex craved lunatic who
was complicit in Paul's sexual depravity. He

638
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:24.960
questioned why Carla had never told anyone
about the abuse. Rosen claimed that in

639
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:30.400
the summer before Tammy's death, Carla
had stolen valume from her job, ground

640
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:32.639
it up, and put it in
spaghetti that she made for Tammy so she

641
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:37.679
would pass out and Paul could have
sex with her. Carla adamantly denied this.

642
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:42.280
So remember when Paul was talking to
Becky and he said, I have

643
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:47.119
her underwear, So Carla had never
Yeah, so I mean yeah, So

644
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:52.239
I think it's possible that he had
had sex with her previous too. I

645
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:57.280
don't know. One story that I
read was that he started to have sex

646
00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:00.840
with her and she woke up,
so he didn't really, Okay, I

647
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:05.239
don't know. We'll never know the
truth. Rosen said that Carlo was actually

648
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:07.239
the one who killed lesslie by kneeling
on her back while pushing her face into

649
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:12.079
a pillow, and that she was
present and helped Paul dismember her and put

650
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:16.199
her in the cement. Carla continued
to say that that's a lie or that

651
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:22.440
didn't happen. He also said that
Carla killed Kristen with a mallet when Paul

652
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.320
was out of the house getting takeout
food. A video referred to as the

653
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:32.119
fireside Chat tape was played for the
courtroom on that largely destroyed any credibility that

654
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:37.320
Carla had left. She pretended to
be Tammy in the tape, and she

655
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:40.639
and Paul had sex. I'm not
going to go super into this tape,

656
00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.880
but I did put a link to
it in the show notes, and it's

657
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:52.920
super disturbing. Like Carla pretends to
be Tammy. She talks about like I

658
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:54.880
think they start out like outside and
they go in like different areas of the

659
00:47:54.960 --> 00:48:00.800
house, and she talks about how
she really liked seeing Tammy raped and it's

660
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:06.719
really grotesque. But one thing that
I took from this tape was like she's

661
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:12.400
like doing different sexual acts to him, and I don't know if he didn't

662
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.159
have an erection or he wasn't able
to climax one of like, And to

663
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:20.440
me, that was kind of telling
because it looked like it seemed like it

664
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:23.400
was like a very long time.
So I was wondering if that was indicative

665
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:29.639
of some sort of sexual issue he
had, Like he can only enjoy sex

666
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:35.000
if someone's being tortured. Yeah.
After Carlo's testimony, the judge gave the

667
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.880
jury a two week break, so
there's summer wouldn't be a total loss,

668
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:42.760
as the judge thought they had at
least four more weeks of trial ahead of

669
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:46.360
them. Paul Bernardo took the witness
stand on August fifteenth. After the recess.

670
00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:50.400
I could not believe he took the
witness stand. He talked about his

671
00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:52.840
obsession with Tammy and how Carla had
broken the blinds in her bedroom so that

672
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:57.760
he could stand outside of her bedroom
and watch her. When Tammy was asleep,

673
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:02.079
he would masturbate on her pillow or
caught while Carla watched God. Paul

674
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:07.519
delivered his testimony without emotion, talking
about the horrible way he had violated so

675
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:10.719
many women it was chilling. He
painted Carla as a desperate, jealous person

676
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:15.480
he would who would do anything to
keep him. He claimed Carla had killed

677
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:19.519
Kristen and Leslie and that he had
not been President President at the time of

678
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:22.639
their deaths. He denied the daily
beatings that Carla had testified to, except

679
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:27.159
for the last beating that landed her
in the hospital before her parents rescued her.

680
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:30.000
He was cocky and condescending on the
stand, seeming to enjoy himself,

681
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:35.039
showing no remorse. As damaging as
the tapes were to Paul, they did

682
00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:38.119
not include the actual deaths of Kristen
and Leslie, so there was a little

683
00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:43.880
concern the jury might not have enough
evidence to convict him. On August thirty

684
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.599
first, the jury began deliberations at
about three pm. They worked until nine

685
00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:52.320
pm and began again twelve hours later. By noon a verdict was reached.

686
00:49:52.360 --> 00:49:59.280
So this shocked me because I thought
the jury would would work for about twelve

687
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:00.840
seconds and they would be like,
you know what, we don't even need

688
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:05.679
We're just gonna tell you he's But
no, they took him a little longer.

689
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:08.400
The Homolkas, the Frenches, and
the Halfey families were all present as

690
00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:12.920
the verdict was read. Paul showed
no emotion. Again. He was found

691
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.719
guilty on all counts. He was
sentenced to life in prison without the possibility

692
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:20.760
of pearle for at least twenty five
years, which is the most severe penalty

693
00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:23.920
in Canada. So there's no such
thing as life without pearl. No.

694
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:30.440
Paul Bernardo was later classified as a
dangerous offender, making it very unlikely he

695
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:37.239
will ever be released. Let's hope
that, Okay, I can't even imagine.

696
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.679
In a report for the court,
doctor Peter Jaffee, a woman's abuse

697
00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:45.719
specialist of London, Ontario, stated
that Carla quote exhibits all the signs and

698
00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:50.280
symptoms symptoms of a young woman who
has been extremely traumatized by an abusive relationship.

699
00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.880
She fits all the criteria for battered
woman's syndrome and our view she was

700
00:50:53.960 --> 00:50:59.440
groomed and brainwashed. I think that's
important. She was again not defending her

701
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:04.880
She was seventeen when they started dating. She was brainwashed by mister Bernardo to

702
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:08.800
become involved in increasingly bizarre and dangerous
behavior that was harmful to herself and others.

703
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:14.199
The report went on to say that
Carlo was extremely vulnerable to Paul Bernardo

704
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:16.400
at the time of their meeting due
to the difference in power in status,

705
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:23.039
specifically the differences in age, accumulated
life experiences, finances, education, independence,

706
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:28.639
and physical size. It is significant. He said that Carlo was captivated

707
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:32.039
by Paul Bernardo during her late adolescence, a crucial period of her development.

708
00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:37.960
The rapid changes in her life would
make her vulnerable to Paul's tactics. He

709
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:43.800
likened Carlo's experience to a concentration camp
because Paul had complete control over her.

710
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:46.320
So take that for what it's worth. Yeah, I think there's something to

711
00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:51.320
be said for that. So Carlo
is people are going to be mad about

712
00:51:51.320 --> 00:51:53.719
this. Carlo was released from prison
in July two thousand and five. She

713
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:58.400
was just thirty six years old,
so how many years had she spent in

714
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:01.880
prison. Total, she spent the
whole twelve years. She had been transferred

715
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:06.800
to a men's prison in Montreal,
living in solitary confinement in the months leading

716
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.679
up to her release, an attempt
to shield her from the media. However,

717
00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:13.679
they caught wind of the transfer and
they were there in DROs when she

718
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:16.679
was released. Several cars were used
by authorities to trick the reporters that were

719
00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:21.639
trying to get a shot of Carla. So she gave an interview to Radio

720
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:24.320
Canada just hours after her release.
I had play any interview for you,

721
00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:28.400
but it's in French, but I
did listen to it with subtitles, so

722
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:31.559
I'm going to summarize it for you. Carlo became fluent in French while in

723
00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:36.280
prison, and she said she wanted
to restart her life in French because she

724
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:42.119
believed that they had been less sensationalistic
and less judgmental than those in Ontario.

725
00:52:42.599 --> 00:52:45.599
In the interview, she admitted that
she had done horrible things, but said

726
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:49.880
she was not a danger to the
public. Carlo said she hoped that people

727
00:52:50.599 --> 00:52:53.400
so she hoped to help people,
but admitted she struggled emotionally with the acts

728
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:58.440
of violence that she had committed.
She said that she had been a pure

729
00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:01.199
counselor in prison and hoped to con
tinue that work outside of prison. She

730
00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:07.199
spent many hours many years living in
solitary confinement due to death threats from inmates.

731
00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:12.239
While in prison, she received a
degree in psychology. She said she

732
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:15.239
feels remorse for her actions and cried
frequently in prison. Oh, poor Carla.

733
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:21.119
Didn't expect society to forgive her.
She said she didn't initiate the crimes,

734
00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:24.280
but went along with them. She
has maintained good relationships with her family,

735
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:28.960
who visited her in prison, and
her mother was there for her release.

736
00:53:29.400 --> 00:53:32.480
Carlo said they all love her.
After the interview, Carlo said she

737
00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:38.719
really wanted an iced cappuccino from Tim
from Tim Horton's. Although she was free

738
00:53:38.840 --> 00:53:43.400
from physical prison, Carlo said she
would always be in an internal prison.

739
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:47.559
Do you want to talk about Tim
Hortons for a second, just because you

740
00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:52.159
know Tim Hortons is important to Canadians
and Detroitters. Yeah, for sure,

741
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:55.320
I love everyone loves Tim Hortons.
Was a talk. I mean, it's

742
00:53:55.320 --> 00:54:00.320
a coffee shop. If no one
knows they have one of a little things

743
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:04.559
called Tibet Timbets, Yeah, which
I like the name better. They're donuts.

744
00:54:05.079 --> 00:54:07.480
I mean, you can send me
hate me out if you want,

745
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:09.239
but they're not amazing. No,
no, I mean it's just kind of

746
00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:12.840
like a basis. It's a lot
like Dunkin Donuts. It's like, yeah,

747
00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:15.800
it's good, but nothing that special. Do you know who Tim Wharton

748
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:21.039
was though, Well, I'm guessing
he was a hockey player. Yeah.

749
00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:23.599
Yeah, it's a Yeah, it's
a fun place. It's they're usually open

750
00:54:23.679 --> 00:54:25.800
twenty No, they're not. I
think they used to be open twenty four

751
00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:29.639
hours. But yeah, I don't
know. It's hard to find a twenty

752
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:34.159
four our our restaurant anymore. White
Castle, are they still? I don't

753
00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:36.920
think so. I'll wake you up
at two am and we'll go check it

754
00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:40.159
out tonight. That actually yesterday when
we went to see the Barbie movie.

755
00:54:40.239 --> 00:54:45.679
They had White Castle Hamburgers at the
movie. Yeah, I can you tell,

756
00:54:45.760 --> 00:54:51.119
like, I'm willing to take any
any any any sideword I can take

757
00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:53.760
here. We're almost done though.
While in prison, Carl had a relationship

758
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:59.400
with a man named Sean Paul Gerbay, who had killed his girlfriend. They

759
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:04.159
had a three year correspondence Carla.
I think the men and women's prisons were

760
00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:07.960
like they were right next to each
other. Carla may had been released two

761
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:10.920
years earlier had it not been for
this relationship. She has refused to talk

762
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:15.920
about it. While in prison.
She also had a relationship with a woman

763
00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:19.719
who she called the love of her
life before she met Gerbet. They met

764
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:24.039
him the prison library where he worked, and they exchanged sexually charged letters and

765
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:29.559
books. A fellow inmate claims she
saw them fondling one another through a chain

766
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:34.199
linked fence that divides the women's prison
from the men's prison. Gerbe was later

767
00:55:34.320 --> 00:55:37.760
moved to another prison. The two
had planned to marry in prison, but

768
00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:43.519
the prison would not allow it.
Carlo moved to Quebec and changed her name.

769
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.800
I think she's had several different aliases. One of them was Leanne Bordelay.

770
00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:51.960
Carlo was never This makes me really
mad. She was never tried for

771
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:55.599
sexual assault crimes, so she has
no limitations on where she can live or

772
00:55:55.679 --> 00:56:00.320
what she can do. She is
married to the brother of one of her

773
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:05.719
defense attorneys. Her first child,
a son, was born in two thousand

774
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:08.480
and seven, and the hospital some
nurses refused to help her due to her

775
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:14.519
past. She went on to have
two more children. In twenty sixteen in

776
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:19.519
Shadauguay, residents were stunned to learn
that Carla, then forty five, resided

777
00:56:19.599 --> 00:56:22.920
in the community and had children that
were attending the elementary school that was a

778
00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:28.639
short distance from her home, where
she sometimes volunteered and went on field trips.

779
00:56:28.960 --> 00:56:31.800
Can you imagine how mad people were
when they found out that Carla was

780
00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:37.519
going on field trips? No,
I can't imagine. She also used the

781
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:42.360
name Leanne Teal, which was the
surname that she and Paul had adopted shortly

782
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:45.280
after their marriage. Till was a
serial killer in the movie Criminal Law and

783
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:50.880
a character that they had admired.
In the most recent update I found on

784
00:56:51.039 --> 00:56:54.920
Carla, she might not be living
with her husband and children anymore. She

785
00:56:55.039 --> 00:57:00.599
probably she's going to continue to have
death threats her whole the rest of her

786
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:02.920
existence. So it's probably she probably
has to move frequently. I would guess.

787
00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:07.079
I don't really know anything else about
what she's doing. Yeah, So

788
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:12.480
now to Paul. In June of
this year, the Correctional Services of Canada

789
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:16.960
or the c SC, transferred Paul
from mill Haven Institution, a maximum security

790
00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:23.920
prison in Ontario to Lamakaza Institution,
an open campus medium security prison in Quebec.

791
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:30.079
Really, it's unclear why this transfer
occurred. I think Paul asked for

792
00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:36.480
it, but Canadians are outraged,
understandably so, and want answers. The

793
00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:39.280
CSC released a comment that said,
quote, we are restricted by law and

794
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:44.440
what we can divulge about an offender's
case. We regret any pain and concern

795
00:57:44.519 --> 00:57:47.679
this decision has caused. We want
Canadians to have confidence in her decision.

796
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:52.719
End quote. I'm that's ridiculous.
Yeah, I'll say. I mean if

797
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.280
anyone like this guy is such a
creep, well, first I thought,

798
00:57:55.320 --> 00:58:00.360
well, maybe maybe if he's really
old or whatever, but he's basically my

799
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:06.840
age. I was wondering if he
was ill or something, but he requested

800
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:12.960
the transfer. It's rumored that the
prison that Paul was transferred to houses a

801
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:16.119
large number of sex offenders, making
them less likely to be under attack,

802
00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:22.360
so that could be one of the
reasons. Ontario Premier Doug Ford issued a

803
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:28.119
statement that said Ontarians stand with his
victims and their families, including those of

804
00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:31.599
less than Mahaffian Kristen French. Bernardo
should rot in maximum security prison for the

805
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:37.159
rest of his miserable, miserable existence, full stop end quote. I agree,

806
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:40.079
like I yeah, I guess I'm
a little surprised no one has taken

807
00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:44.320
him out in prison. Like you
mentioned, he had gotten beat up a

808
00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:46.920
lot. Like I'm a little surprised
he hasn't been killed. I believe he's

809
00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:52.320
been in solitary pretty much the entire
time. But now he's in this medium

810
00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:55.360
security prison. I don't know what
that means. But this was just in

811
00:58:55.480 --> 00:58:59.920
June, I believe, so it's
possible it will be changed. I will

812
00:59:00.199 --> 00:59:04.880
research that. I'll stay on that. In twenty eighteen, Paul was charged

813
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:07.320
with having a handmade weapon in his
cell, but the charge was later dropped.

814
00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:10.400
It appears that he is in solitary
confinement, in his cell, kept

815
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:14.039
apart from other I at least like
say that, and then it's in the

816
00:59:14.079 --> 00:59:16.320
script. He's kept apart from the
other prisoners. He has had two parole

817
00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:22.000
hearings, which is insane, one
in twenty eighteen and one in twenty one,

818
00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:24.880
and both were struck down. Well
that's good at least, I mean

819
00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:29.519
it's good, which is the fact
that they even allow him to have a

820
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:32.960
parole hearing. Yeah, Paul and
Carla destroyed many lives and families. Court

821
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.519
officials, jury members, police,
and others blame the tapes as a contributing

822
00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:43.719
factor for their personal struggles with PTSD, suicidal thoughts, and divorce post post

823
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:46.920
trial. At the urging of the
victims families, the tapes were eventually destroyed,

824
00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:52.679
incinerated. I just can't imagine having
to watch those tapes and those core

825
00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:54.320
jurors, I mean, just anyone
who had to see them for their job

826
00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:59.880
or as a juror doing your civil
duty. It's I always think about that

827
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:01.760
of like being on a jury where
stuff like that ends up having to be

828
01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:07.440
shown. It would be really hard
to process that and deal with that afterwards.

829
01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:12.039
And you know, these are old
tapes, and I saw like a

830
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:15.760
picture of one. I don't know
if they were Beta Max. I don't

831
01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:21.159
know when beta and vhs existed,
but I think they were pretty small.

832
01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:23.800
They looked fairly small. But if
I recall like a videotape, like you're

833
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:28.559
thinking, oh, how many how
much footage could six video tapes hold,

834
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:30.400
well, I think they could be
six to eight hours, right, like

835
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:36.800
they were long? Yeah, yeah, so that anyway, the pink cape

836
01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:42.519
Cot House of Horrors and Poor to
Lucy was demolished. So that's the story

837
01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:46.920
of the Kennon Barbie killers. Wow, that's a lot. Huh, that's

838
01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:50.639
a lot, So I have some
things to wrap up here. There are

839
01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:53.599
several other rapes and murders like we've
said, that may have committed been committed

840
01:00:53.599 --> 01:00:58.719
by Paul. Bernardo. Carla told
police that Paul had once bragged to her

841
01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:01.679
that he had raped over their women. While on their honeymoon in Hawaii,

842
01:01:01.800 --> 01:01:08.440
a woman was raped with the typical
modus operandi of Paul. A newspaper clipping

843
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:13.599
was found in Paul's home of the
incident, so that was likely him.

844
01:01:14.599 --> 01:01:19.039
Terry Anderson, fifteen, vanished in
November of nineteen ninety one, about a

845
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:23.400
mile from where Kristen had vanished.
She was later found in Lake Ontario in

846
01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:28.280
Port de Lucy, which is where
they lived. Police said there was no

847
01:01:28.440 --> 01:01:31.760
foul play and it was an accidental
drowning due to her being high end LSD.

848
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:36.840
But she'd been in the water for
over six months, so any evidence

849
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:43.000
would have pretty much disappeared. So
I think that's another likely Paul murder.

850
01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:47.440
A woman named Elizabeth Baine disappeared in
June of nineteen ninety from the University of

851
01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:52.039
Toronto campus. At the time,
her boyfriend was the prime suspect, but

852
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:55.760
he was later acquitted. It's thought
that Paul could have murdered her, but

853
01:01:55.880 --> 01:02:00.559
he was never seriously looked at as
a suspect at the time because at that

854
01:02:00.719 --> 01:02:05.280
time he wasn't known as a murderer. He was just known as a rapist.

855
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:09.679
And November of twenty fifteen, Paul
self published a six hundred and thirty

856
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:15.440
one page book called A Mad World
Order on Amazon dot com. It quickly

857
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:20.519
became a best seller before it was
removed. It was removed due to the

858
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:22.760
public outcry. I can't even believe
it became a best seller. I guess

859
01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:29.360
people are just curious though, right, so, we know that Paul is

860
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:36.440
pure garbage, But is Carlo redeemable? Did she manipulate the legal system?

861
01:02:37.159 --> 01:02:42.559
Was she telling the truth? Something
I didn't say is they're both highly intelligent.

862
01:02:43.400 --> 01:02:46.320
I don't know what Paul's i Q
was, but I think during her

863
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:52.480
psychological the battery of tests, she
was I think her intelligence wasn't the isn't

864
01:02:52.519 --> 01:03:00.320
the top two percent of people?
So could she have manipulated everyone. It's

865
01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:02.199
a tough one. I mean,
I really I think that's one of the

866
01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:07.119
most interesting parts of this case is
how, yeah, how culpable she is

867
01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:12.679
and the whole thing, and whether
she manipulated the legal system or not.

868
01:03:13.000 --> 01:03:15.199
It's I don't know. I don't
know either, but I think that there

869
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:20.239
was definitely some degree of manipulation on
her part for sure. But yeah,

870
01:03:20.280 --> 01:03:22.960
well, it sounds like she lied
about how involved she was with the killings.

871
01:03:23.159 --> 01:03:27.559
And I would think, like,
if you reached a plea deal,

872
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:30.119
but then they later found out you
lied to get to that plea deal,

873
01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:35.960
that you could basically back away from
that. And part of the plea deal

874
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:38.599
was that if she perjured herself that
the plea deal was would become invalid.

875
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:44.800
But they decided not to charge her. Interesting. Yeah, very disturbing.

876
01:03:45.079 --> 01:03:46.559
I do have mixed feelings about Carlo
though, because I do feel like she

877
01:03:46.719 --> 01:03:52.119
was definitely a battered spouse and she
was controlled and I understand like, you

878
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:55.119
know, Stockholm syndrome or all those
type of things, So I do have

879
01:03:55.320 --> 01:04:00.800
some sympathy for her. I guess
having sex with your sisters. Yeah,

880
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:04.280
yeah, she did some disgusting things, some horrible things, and she definitely

881
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:08.639
deserved to be punished. I think
one of the worst things that she did

882
01:04:09.159 --> 01:04:13.320
was have three children. Yeah,
I think it's sick. I think that

883
01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:18.880
if she had an ounce of self
reflection, as she would know that it

884
01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:23.400
would be just so selfish of her
to have three kids and what those kids

885
01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:27.199
must go through. Yeah, yeah, good point. It really bothers me.

886
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:31.800
What else do we have here?
Paul was an animal. He tried

887
01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:35.599
to make Carla have sex with the
dog. He said if they had a

888
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:41.880
daughter, that she that he would
have sex with her, and he this

889
01:04:42.079 --> 01:04:46.079
this part is really gross, shouldn't
I say? Well, one of the

890
01:04:46.159 --> 01:04:49.119
things that I don't know, it's
all just horrible. But he urinated on

891
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:53.920
people, He defecated on people,
and he made people eat his species.

892
01:04:55.760 --> 01:05:01.800
Yeah. It said that the book
American Psycho was like a bible to Paul.

893
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:05.599
I think I read that a long
time. I read that disturbing.

894
01:05:06.639 --> 01:05:12.920
In January of nineteen ninety seven,
Paul's first lawyer, Ken was charged with

895
01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:16.760
obstruction of justice and possession of child
pornography for failing to turn over the Bernardo

896
01:05:16.840 --> 01:05:21.760
tapes. Yeah. So, Paul
scored thirty five out of forty on the

897
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:29.280
Psychopath Checklist, which is a psychological
assessment tool used to access assess the presence

898
01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:34.920
of psychopath and individuals, and Carla
on the same test, scored five out

899
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:39.320
of forty. I made you take
the test. I scored five out of

900
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:42.920
forty. If you would, Carla
so much in common? Not at all?

901
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:45.519
I scored one out of forty.
But then I'm like, am I

902
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:49.239
a psychopath? Though? Because I
scored one out of forty? Because I

903
01:05:49.360 --> 01:05:54.000
don't you know a psychopath? And
I can ask my answers, right,

904
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:56.400
That's that is the question. When
I took the test, I thought this

905
01:05:56.559 --> 01:06:00.440
test is not for self assessment because
if you were a psychopath, you would

906
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:03.840
lie about everything. So you're saying
I'm a psychopath. Well, because we

907
01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:08.920
don't know, We just don't know. I'll also met the criteria for this

908
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:13.760
is going to just shock you.
Narcissistic, narcissis. I can't talk anymore.

909
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:16.920
I'm done. My tongue is done. Narcissistic personality, disorder, voyeurism,

910
01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:23.159
paraphilia, and sadism. He got, he got all the all the

911
01:06:23.400 --> 01:06:28.800
isms. I am done, And
can I tell you how happy I am

912
01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:31.079
to be done with this okay,
Oh, open some champagne. Now.

913
01:06:31.119 --> 01:06:33.440
Well was we were going to like
put this off, but I was like,

914
01:06:33.599 --> 01:06:39.239
I need to clear my brain.
So I am done with I'm done

915
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:44.559
with. Paul Bernardo and Carla hummelglaf
forever. Good. Congratulations it was you

916
01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:46.760
did a great job on it.
I'm not sure about that, but thank

917
01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:50.480
you. Thank you for listening,
thank you for your patience. Sure,

918
01:06:51.719 --> 01:06:57.199
sure, I just really just it
just made me. It's very uncomfortable.

919
01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:00.599
Yeah, well you should detox.
You should like take all take long bath

920
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:03.719
and you know, have a glass
of wine or something and just chill out

921
01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:09.719
for like the next two days.
Well, we want to take a vacation.

922
01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:14.960
We want to get away. So
I'm gonna, well, I have

923
01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:18.079
a bunch of stuff that I started, so I'm gonna I'm gonna finish those

924
01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:23.599
cases up. Yeah. So again, we're coming up on our one year

925
01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:27.599
anniversary and we were gonna do some
fun things. We're thinking about dropping a

926
01:07:27.679 --> 01:07:31.079
merch line. So if you have
any merch ideas, let us know.

927
01:07:31.239 --> 01:07:34.960
If there's anything you'd like to see, anything you want to wear, Yeah,

928
01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:41.079
anything you want to support us with. We're like gonna be funny,

929
01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:43.639
I know, everyone's tired. We
need to wrap this up. But yeah,

930
01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:45.119
and also I was thinking we would
do maybe a little Q and A,

931
01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:48.639
like a special birthday episode that no
one probably will listen to, but

932
01:07:49.000 --> 01:07:51.039
I would like to do because I'd
love a good you know, a good

933
01:07:51.079 --> 01:07:56.159
party and celebration. So if you
have any questions for us, send them

934
01:07:56.199 --> 01:08:00.199
to us behind the scenes, if
you want to know how things operate right

935
01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:04.760
here in the Love Mary Kill studio. Yeah, it would be fun.

936
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:09.199
Yeah, alright, one year.
I can't believe it's almost been a year.

937
01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:13.760
It feels like six. I know. Some guysn't like, why how

938
01:08:14.079 --> 01:08:16.439
do we have a podcast? It's
it is weird, Yeah it is.

939
01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:21.239
Yeah, all right, Well follow
us on social media, follow us on

940
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:25.399
Instagram, Love Mary Kill. Yeah, thank you all for listening. We're

941
01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:31.039
really grateful for each and everyone.
We really are. But we have a

942
01:08:31.079 --> 01:08:34.119
little script that is trying to go
off script, and then Rich grabs the

943
01:08:34.159 --> 01:08:40.279
script like I need script, script, I need uh. I think it's

944
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:45.319
very obvious when we read it off
the script. So we were just really

945
01:08:45.399 --> 01:08:46.359
bad at closing the show, and
so we were like, we're going to

946
01:08:46.399 --> 01:08:51.600
try to scripting good. Everyone know
we We're mess. We are loving but

947
01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:55.680
adorable mess. We do. We're
doing our best. We do love and

948
01:08:55.720 --> 01:08:58.640
appreciate all of our listeners though,
I really, I really believe we have

949
01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:00.920
the best listeners of any true crime
podcast out there. So thank you.

950
01:09:01.479 --> 01:09:05.399
We yeah, we are very very
appreciative. As always, I appreciate you.

951
01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:10.960
I appreciate you, and seriously I
mean it like this would not be

952
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:15.319
happening without you and your patience and
your technological wizardry. Well I also mean

953
01:09:15.399 --> 01:09:18.600
it too. You are the You're
the brains behind this whole thing, so

954
01:09:18.880 --> 01:09:24.800
you know, mm okay, all
right, Well, until next time,

955
01:09:25.000 --> 01:10:04.359
don't kill your husband and don't kill
your wife. Be the boy up.